WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1528 - Carol Burnett

Episode Date: April 8, 2024

Carol Burnett turns 91 later this month and is still going strong with a featured role in the new series Palm Royale. But Carol is quick to remind Marc that the great success she achieved happened in part due to the kindness of strangers. Carol and Marc talk about the mysterious benefactors who helped her get to New York where she found success on the stage, then on television, and then with her own variety show. They also talk about her friendship with Lucille Ball, collaborating with Julie Andrews, and the closeness of The Carol Burnett Show cast. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Will you rise with the sun to help change mental health care forever? Join the Sunrise Challenge to raise funds for CAMH, the Centre for Addiction and Mental Health, to support life-saving progress in mental health care. From May 27th to 31st, people across Canada will rise together and show those living with mental illness and addiction that they're not alone. Help CAMH build a future where no one is left behind. So, who will you rise for?

Register today at SunriseChallenge.ca. That's SunriseChallenge.ca. This is the first radio ad you can smell. The new Cinnabon pull apart only at Wendy's. It's ooey, gooey, and just five bucks with a small coffee all day long. Taxes extra at participating Wendy's until May 5th. Terms and conditions apply.

long. Taxes extra at participating Wendy's until May 5th. Terms and conditions apply. All right, let's do this. How are you what the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fuck, Nick? What's happening? I'm Mark Maron. This is my podcast WTF. Welcome to it. What has been going on? What is it, Monday? How was the weekend? Where you been? What's happening? How's everything for you? Are you alright? Are you alright? I'm a little tired. I'm a little strung out from the road. I left for the Midwest on Tuesday. I did Madison, Wisconsin Wednesday night, Milwaukee, Wisconsin Thursday night, Chicago, Illinois on Friday night.

And then on Saturday, we topped it off with Minneapolis. Great shows. I got some stories maybe. What do you think? But I don't want to, I want to set up today's show. I want to set up today's show early I want to set up today's show early on so you know what's about to happen. I talked to Carol Burnett.

Now Carol Burnett, I'm 60. I don't know how old you are, but I'm 60. And Carol Burnett from my childhood, in my childhood watching Carol Burnett shows when I was very young was one of the most exciting and hilarious things I remember about my childhood. Just her, Conway, Vicki Lawrence, Lyle Wagner, Harvey Korman. I mean, these were some of the funniest people that ever lived. And I remember watching the show when it was on the air when I

was a kid. And now when I was researching her to interview her, I was going back and watching some of that stuff and it is just so great. She is just so great. And man, we've been trying to do this, this interview for years. And we always told them that we'd make it work, however we could. And she had been in LA doing press for Paul Morial, but I was out of town. So what I did was I drove up to Montecito. It was a thunderstorm. It was ridiculous. I mean, like just flooding rain.

And I met her at a...we set up a room at a hotel for the interview. Her people brought her down. We had to drive, get a little golf carts around. It was very slippery. She's very, uh, spry, very agile minded. She's all there and she's amazing. She's 90 years old. It's amazing.

And I was nervous. I get nervous in general when you travel. I get nervous about the equipment. I get nervous about, you know, how I'm going to engage with people, with such a legend as well. And I don't know, man. She, we went, I went into the room, I set up, and we just sat down and did it.

And it was just an honor and a great conversation. And I don't know, brings back a lot of memories. I think I brought back some memories for her, some memories from the show, from her childhood. But it was just such a, I'm so glad that I got to do it because there are some interviews that I never got to do, but I got to do this one and it's pretty great. Folks, I'm in Austin, Texas at the Paramount Theater

on Thursday, April 18th as part of the Moon Tower Comedy Festival. I'll be in Montclair, New Jersey on Thursday, May 2nd at the Wellmont Center, Glenside, Pennsylvania in the Philadelphia area on Friday, May 3rd at the Keswick Theater, Washington, D.C. on Saturday, May 3rd at the Keswick Theatre Washington DC on Saturday, May 4th at the Warner Theatre Munhall Pennsylvania outside Pittsburgh on May 9th at the Carnegie Library Music Hall Cleveland, Ohio on May 10th at Playhouse Square

Detroit Michigan on May 11th at the Royal Oak Music Theatre Go to WTF pod comm slash tour for all of my dates and links to tickets. Wow. What a series of shows. I'm like, I'm out of it, man. I don't even, you know, I went out there, we flew out. Now look, I told you recently about my anxiety, but like sometimes I'm just nuts. I mean, sometimes like it'll be a week before I leave and I'll be saying to myself,

oh, fuck, where am I gonna park in Milwaukee? I mean, is there no better use for my brain? But yeah, we had some obstacles, but some interesting lessons along the way. I went out there with Ali Makovsky, who's a comic who I've known from the store, from the Comedy Store for a little while. And she's open for me here in town,

but I've never taken her out on the road with me. And it was great. She killed. She was funny. We had a good time. We ate good food. We drove around strange cities. It's fun. I mean, if you have somebody you can travel with on the road because a lot of driving involved and flying and

I didn't know I didn't know if it would be great But it was pretty fun and she was very funny and the shows worked great This episode is brought to you by Squarespace We've been supported by Squarespace for years and not just as a sponsor Squarespace also powers our website for years and not just as a sponsor, Squarespace also powers our website, WTFPod.com. So whether you're just starting out or you're managing an existing company or brand, Squarespace makes it easy to set yourself up

with a beautiful website and get all the tools that'll help you engage with your audience. They have a completely new design system called Squarespace Blueprint and that's where you'll get started. Build your online presence from the ground up with a professional layout and style options. Then get to work on all the added features that will make your site a place where customers and

fans can get everything they want. Make checkout seamless with simple but powerful payment tools. Use Squarespace AI to help you write descriptions or any other kind of short or long-form text you need. Go to squarespace.com slash WTF for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, use the code WTF to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. That's squarespace.com slash WTF offer code WTF. Get started today. Now with this anxiety thing, I mean, it's weird.

I don't think I'm... I show my gratitude for technology enough. I should explain that because here's what happened. And look, I've talked about this a lot lately, but I've just exhausted my energy resources, I think for my entire that for my life but we're flying Ali and I are flying from Los Angeles to Chicago and then we were gonna get a plane from Chicago to Madison which was ultimately unnecessary I don't know why we booked it my manager booked it but it's fine

but we were gonna rent the car in Madison then drive Madison to Milwaukee and then Milwaukee down to Chicago and then milwaukee down to chicago And then fly to minneapolis and fly home the next day. It was it's a lot of uh running around But the initial plan Was we were going to fly From chicago To madison So we're in the air from los angeles to chicago and I get a text on my phone

It's from american airlines the flight from chicago to minneapolis has been cancelled and then Allie texts me from the back of the plane You know, it's you know, you gotta pay your dues Uh text me from the back of the plane that the flight's been cancelled I was like, I know and then she was looking around she found a united flight then my manager got involved So now i'm texting with my manager and Ali in the back of the plane about this United flight and then it became apparent that it was about weather so who knows what was gonna happen if there was even a United flight

then I'm like fuck this let's just rent a car when we get to Chicago and drive to Madison it can't how bad could the weather be so I reserved a car It hurts all of this happened on my phone in the air before we even landed and It was easy so I just got to be a little bit grateful sometimes because Ten years ago. Do you know what that you know what happened ten years ago? You wouldn't even eat you wouldn't even, you wouldn't have even known.

You would not have even known until you got off the plane in Chicago, walked out of the gate, looked at one of those boards and just went, oh fuck, God damn it, the fucking flight to Minneapolis is canceled. Doesn't look that bad out there. I mean, what are they doing? Can't they just fly in this? And then you would have scrambled over to the is canceled. It doesn't look that bad out there. I mean, what are they doing?

Can't they just fly in this? And then you would have scrambled over to the American counter. Is there another flight? Can we get another flight? What's the next flight? There is no other flights. Tomorrow morning is the next time you can get it out. God damn it.

And then you go running. Then the running in the airport starts. Running to another airline. They tell you at American, maybe United, you can get on the United flight. They got one going out. So you're running in Chicago, that's a big run. That's a lot of running with your luggage at night. And you run to United, they're like, it's all booked up.

And then it's like, God damn it. I guess we'll have to sleep here at an airport hotel. Wait, let's just go to Hertz. Let's just, I can call Hertz. I'll call Hertz in Chicago and see if they have a car. That could take forever. So you decide just go to Hertz. Let's just, I can call Hertz. I'll call Hertz in Chicago and see if they have a car. That could take forever. So you decide to go to Hertz, you don't even know if they have a car.

None of that happened just because of wifi on the plane. None of that happened. That doesn't mean it didn't happen in my mind. So I did experience a little bit of anxiety at moments because I lived it. I just recounted it for you and it didn't happen. So sometimes a little gratitude, little gratitude is in order. Yes, so we drove from Chicago to Madison, stayed at that same hotel I always stay at in Madison. Madison is a good town, but it was snowing.

For two days, it was snowing. And I remember I talked to you about it on last, what was it, Thursday, sitting in that room, looking at that snow, thinking like, this is my life. Got to the gym that first day. And then just beat the fuck out of myself for not doing it for the next four

The gym at that hotel was alright There's some good ones, okay This one was pretty good had like seven treadmills a couple bikes had mats that had weights had all the stuff you need It was big enough. It was big to hold all that but I was still the only guy there and It's still kind of lonely in a hotel gym. Now I don't know what it is with my brain. I mean, it's only an hour, but for some reason in a hotel gym,

the entire process of it, I don't know. It runs deeper than that. I mean, it was okay because of the size, but if you're in one of those hotel gyms, that's just two treadmills and maybe a couple of weights and you're on that treadmill, holy shit. It feels like you're the last person alive. It's like an existential crisis almost in a weird way. A type of loneliness that can't quite be an active loneliness.

And all you're doing is hoping that no one gets on that one other treadmill right next to you, because the intimacy would just be too much to bear just two people running futilely from death in a hotel gym. Maybe I'm being dramatic, but there is something I mean, look, most of you, myself included, when you're at home. It takes a lot But when you're in a hotel for some reason when there is absolutely nothing else to do the idea Of getting down to that gym even if it's for an hour even like and that's the only thing that I can

I can do to make things happen. Sometimes is clock it Like how long is this really going to take? How long does it really take you to do anything? Anytime you're like, I don't want to do that, time it. I mean, really ask yourself, what is the thing you're dreading? It might take three and a half minutes to do that thing. So just fucking do it. That's how I get through it. I don't know if I've shared that advice with you, but that's how I get through it. I don't know if I've shared that advice with you, but that's how I get through it.

Springtime is all about fresh air, fresh starts and freshly cleaned homes. And it's the perfect time to give a fresh look at SimpliSafe Home Security. It's the home security option we've been recommending for eight years. When we first installed SimpliSafe, we did it ourselves and it took less than an hour

to get the whole thing up and running. Just a fraction of our spring cleaning time, but that's not the only reason we love it. Simply Safe is great because it protects your whole home. It has sensors to detect break-ins, fires, floods, and more, plus a variety of indoor and outdoor cameras to keep watch over your property day and night. It's backed by 24-7 professional monitoring for less than a dollar a day, so you'll get a response right away when you need it most. Simply Safe has given us and many WTF listeners real peace of mind. You should have that peace of mind too. Get

20% off your system today when you sign up for the Fast Protect Monitoring at simply simply safe.com slash WTF. That's simply safe.com slash WTF. There's no safe like simply safe. Okay, look, this is it. This is happening. Carol Burnett is a legend. It was a thrill and an honor to sit down with her for an hour and talk. She's in a new series called Palm Royale.

It's now streaming on Apple TV+. You can watch the first five episodes right now with new episodes premiering Wednesdays. This was a treat, and I was a bit nervous, but this is me talking to Carol Burnett. Will you rise with the sun to help change mental health care forever? Join the Sunrise Challenge to raise funds for CAMH, the Center for Addiction and Mental Health,

to support life-saving progress in mental health care. From May 27th to 31st, people across Canada will rise together and show those living with mental illness and addiction that they're not alone. Help CAMH build a future where no one is left behind. So who will you rise for? Register today at SunriseChallenge.ca. That's SunriseChallenge.ca. You know the last time I drove up here for an interview was to talk to Jonathan Winters. Oh Johnny. Yeah, that was something.

You know it wasn't long before he passed away but he was one of those guys where you know the guy who set it up said we'll see what kind of day it is for him. Oh got it. I knew him very well. We had the same manager when we started out in New York. Oh, really? And I have two of his original paintings in my house that he gave me.

Oh, that's so great. He was a good artist. Sure. And he lived up here, right? I mean, he lived nearby. Oh, yeah. And he would hold court a lot at the local delicatessen. Right, and also he would, like when I saw him,

we went to lunch and he would wear his Civil War, his hat, and it was quite an outing. When we were at that house, you know, it was just so interesting that, and I tell this story and I don't know if people really appreciate it, you know, he's got this, you know, that house out there in Santa Barbara.

He's got that wall full of photos of a whole life and show business, right? And we're walking by it and he just stops at this one picture and it's like an ancient picture of just a boy and his dog. And he says, I miss that dog. Oh my God. Right?

Oh wow. Out of all those pictures? Oh, that's so, bless him. Right? So you've been interviewed a lot. And I think as a guy who's sitting here talking to you, out of all the interviewers that you've engaged with, who was your most favorite to do?

Well, there wasn't one particular, but I think Merv Griffin actually was wonderful, because that was back in the days when you didn't go on to plug anything. Right, right, yeah. You just went on to talk. To hang out. And to hang out with him. And he was a bit, and he never had notes.

Yeah. Or anything, it was like you were out to dinner with him. Right, right. The other one I had fun with, and I did the whole 90 minutes, was Dick Cavett. Oh yeah. And that was fun. Yeah, and that was when it was sort of like,

you know, a bunch of people came out. So you're being here. I was just the only guest that time. For 90 minutes. For 90 minutes. That was fun. Yeah, and that was when it was sort of like a bunch of people came out. Yeah, I was just the only guest that time. For 90 minutes. For 90 minutes. And we had to, we sang a song together. What was it? A fine romance, my friend.

You got Cavett singing, huh? Got him singing. Yeah. And then another one, the other one I only did one was David Frost. Oh, he's a British one, was David Frost. Oh, he's a British guy, right? Yeah, and he was, again, none of them had any, we were just talking.

Yes, yeah. I wasn't plugging anything. Why don't we, but that was sort of the way it went back then, a little bit. Yeah. I mean, I guess Carson plugged, but it was still a 90 minute show. Well, even early on, Carson too, was, it was just getting, as you said, hanging.

Did you do it in New York with Carson? I did. Oh, oh, well. I was always nervous to do Carson because I felt you sit in that chair and you have to score. And I'm not a scorer. I am not.

What are you talking about? No, I'm not. I can't, I don't tell jokes and so forth. So I decided, and I didn't tell him, that I would go on and be the world's worst interviewee. That was the bit? He didn't know I was gonna do it. Okay.

So, get on. Yeah. And this was when my husband and I had moved to Beverly Hills in California. After New York. Yeah, so now he's in California. Right. So you said, well, I understand that you just moved out here

from New York to Beverly Hills. And I said, yes. And he said, and I understand that you bought Betty Grable's old house, she was one of your favorite movie stars, that must be quite a thrill. And I went, yes. Well he caught on. Oh he did.

Of course. Then he started these real long questions and I would just go, maybe. And then the audience started to think on it. And afterwards he said that was the most fun. He didn't see it coming. No, he didn't see it coming. I just thought that maybe that's the way I can score.

Right, nice slow build. And he was so quick. And I guess once he got it. Oh, once he got it, he was on a roll. I just watched, for some reason, quick. And I guess once he got it, oh, once he got it, he was on it. I, uh, I just watched, uh, for some reason, you know, I, I, I watched the entire new show, Palm Royal. I watched the whole series. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. I, I didn't watch every Carol Burnett show.

Yeah. That would have been quite a long day. It would have been a lot. But the new show, it's one of those shows that you, I don't, it doesn't really play as a comedy, but it's definitely a comedy, right? Well, it's a dark comedy. Dark comedy, exactly, yeah. And I imagine for you, because like I texted Alice and Jenny yesterday, because I've interviewed her. We wordle. that's what she said

She said you were told every day and then you're her new favorite person and that guy heard I love her Oh god, they the comedy talent on that show. Well, that's why I did it really when they Called me to do it. I hadn't read it or I didn't know anything about it And they said Kristen Wiig Alice Wiig, Allison Janney, Laura Dern, I'm in, I don't care, you want me to carry a spear, what do you want me to, I'm in a coma for the. For half of it.

Half of it, yes. Kinda, yeah, yeah. But you're doing some face work during the coma. I guess so. There are moments where it's like, you know, there was a lip movement, I'm like, that was on purpose. She's getting a laugh in a coma. But when you see somebody like Kristen,

because there's not, like, in terms of comedic actresses. She's brilliant. She's unbelievable, right? Yeah. And I think a direct legacy of what you did in the work that, you know, in terms of the courage of it all and the commitment to character. And you had fun with her?

Oh, yeah. In fact, we did a lot of, most of my scenes are with her. Yeah. So we bonded like crazy. I kind of felt like her mom. Oh really? In a way, you know.

So we're in touch. Yeah, and Allison and Laura, all of us names who were together. They're all kind of incredible comedic actresses. And everybody, I mean, we got along like a house of fire. There was no temperament. No, and we just had, and the directors were very good with us. Yeah.

They encouraged us to kind of improvise a bit. Oh, you did? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you did? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, a lot of stuff. They said, okay, do another one and do anything you want. Oh, that's fun. Well, that's fun.

That must have given you a little juice. It did, yeah. Yeah, because that's like the old days. Of course, of course. Well, like I wondered like about, I've interviewed, like I guess contemporaries, yours, like I interviewed Dick Van Dyke. Oh, gosh. A while back in Malibu, I went out there.

I interviewed Carl Reiner before he passed away. And that was hilarious. I've interviewed Mel Brooks, Shelley Berman. Did you know Shelley Berman? Vaguely, not well. Because I noticed in the first season of the show there's so many guests, but not a ton of comics, a few, right? And I just wonder, like, the different circles.

Because you came up, well, you were born in, where, in Texas? 1933, 1933, and I was born in Texas, San Antonio. You still have people there? No. Are you kidding? I'm nine years old. I got people there. I mean, sometimes there's people that kind of-

Uncle Methuselah, he's there. He's still there, he's 107. Yeah. And then you came here. Yep. I came to Hollywood with my grandmother. Right. We moved here to be with my mother, and we lived a block north of Hollywood Boulevard

on Yucca and Wilcox. Oh, I know who that is. Yeah. And that's where I grew up. And your mom was in show business? No, she wanted to be Luella Parsons and Hanna Hopper. Sure, right, do a tabloid journalism. Yeah, well, she interviewed a few movie stars for Pick Magazine, that was an old magazine at the time.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But her dreams never really came true But she did get to interview Rita Hayworth. Yeah Bob Hope when you had them on your show. Did you ask them if they remembered your mother? Oh, I did Well, they of course they wouldn't yeah, you know, yeah, you know, but it was so weird, you know when I Growing up and mama said, oh, guess what, I got to interview Rita Hayworth. And she wanted to make a phone call and didn't have any change, so I lent her a nickel.

And she said, how about that? Rita Hayworth owes me a nickel. That's her big star connection. Right, right, right. But it was a thrill for me. I mean, my gosh, my grandmother and I used to go to the movies all the time.

Sure, yeah, yeah. We'd save our pennies. Right. And go to where they had double features. And so there were times when we would go on the weekend, Saturday and Sunday, we'd see four movies in a weekend. You know, and there I would see Bing Crosby, I would see Rita Hayworth, I would see a lot of turnip Betty Grable, and they were on my show.

And it's crazy. Yeah. And there's, I watched that clip with Gloria Swanson. Oh yeah, yep. She said in her book, she's got a book, wrote her autobiography, Swanson on Swanson, and she said that the greatest television experience she had was doing our show. Yeah?

Yep, she said she just loved it, and the way we rehearsed and got it done, and she loved doing the tango with the boy dancers, and then doing Charlie Chaplin, where I was doing the char woman with her. And she was like the energizer bunny. Right. And she was, oh, she's 76.

It's so wild that your show kind of was at that moment where there was sort of a new guard coming in, but all those actors and actresses were just around. Right. And they were willing to play. Yeah. And well, I always wanted to, when we would have musical guests like Cheetah Rivera or Gwen Verdon, I would want to put them in sketches because they would do variety shows

and they never had an opportunity to be in a sketch. Oh, to be funny. Yeah, to have something other than just doing their number. And so Cheetah, I mean, we used her a lot. And she was very funny. She could do it. And Gwen, of course. And we just had more fun.

And so they loved coming on our show, because again, they got to do more than just get up and do their number. Yeah, yeah, because it was fun. Yeah. I was just thinking before. I watched that clip of you and Emmett Kelly. Oh. That's kind of a wild clip. it was fun. Yeah. I was just thinking before, I watched that clip of you and Emmett Kelly. Oh. That's kind of a wild clip.

It was sweet. It's almost like an art piece. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, that was, look for the silver lining. Yeah, and Paper Moon. Paper Moon. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was just such a, it's strange to think that,

so much a part of what physical comics do is kind of clowning. Yeah. In terms of like, you know, and then to see him all sad and quiet. Yeah. But I, as a kid, I hated clowns. Yeah, who doesn't? I mean, they scared the hell out of me. A lot of people scared the clowns.

When we went to a circus, and they were hitting each other and banging. And then one of them pointed a gun at me. I'm in the first row and I'm just like this. And of course an umbrella came out, but I thought that's not funny. I was maybe six years old, but it scared me to death. They are scary. But Emmett never scared me because there was a sweetness about him.

Yeah, he's the classic sad clown. Exactly. And he was around forever, right? Oh yeah, it's so sweet. And really when he talked, he's the classic sad clown. Exactly. And he was around forever, right? Oh yeah, it's so sweet. And really when he talked, he was sweet? Oh, adorable, very sweet. So now, you didn't grow up with your dad because he was out there, away, right?

No, I didn't grow up with him because they were divorced. Right. But he would come and visit. Yeah. And unfortunately, he was an alcoholic. Yeah. And so my mother became an alcoholic. Yeah, they're two of us.

Yeah, even though they were separated and everything, but they got along. Yeah. And there were times when he would be sober and it would just be wonderful. He was, however, he was so much like Jimmy Stewart and then when he drank, he was like a drunk Jimmy Stewart. He was sweet I mean there was never any anger or angst or anything. He was just had that disease. Yeah

I will believe me. I've got I'm in my 25th year sober. Oh wonderful. Yeah. Wow. I know it's a it's crazy Yeah, long time. He was sober for a year. I remember when I was 11 Yeah, and it was the best, we had the best time because he lived with his mother, my paternal grandmother, in Santa Monica. And so on the weekends when I was in school, I'd take the streetcar and the bus, and he'd meet me and I'd be with them all weekend. We'd go to the movies and we'd go to, there was the ocean park, there was Ocean Park, there was roller coasters and the rides there. It's still there, isn't it?

Yeah, I think the rides are still in Santa Monica Pier anyways. Anyway, that's where we'd go. And it was just wonderful. And then she died, his mother, and he came to see me and he was kind of weaving. And he had had something to drink, so he fell kind of weaving and he had had something to drink, so he fell off the wagon and he never recovered.

Now was there AA then? Yeah, but it wasn't, I think mama went to one meeting and had to have a drink afterwards. It was the old days of it. It must have been very specific. Because you watch the days of wine and roses. That's sort of Jack Klugman. That's sort of what it looked like.

It was new. So your mom never really got sober. No, her dreams were crushed. In fact, they both died before they were 50. Oh my goodness. Yeah, they were 44, 45 years old. Now how do you figure you didn't get stuck with that disease? Well, maybe it skipped a generation, I don't know, because my grandmother, mama's mama,

didn't drink. Yeah. And thank God she was around for stability, right? Uh-huh. Well, she was a hypochondriacal Christian scientist. Oh, so no doctors constantly thinking she's dying? Yes. doctors constantly thinking she's dying? Yes, but then if she didn't feel well or anything, and if it didn't work, Christian science,

she'd pop a phenobarbital. Oh, so. So as I said, a hypochondriacal Christian science. So she had that backup. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was aspirin and phenobarbitals and all of that. Right, yeah, yeah. Oh yeah, yeah.

And like in looking at it now, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then,

and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then,

and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, disease. I thought that, you know, my dad said when he was sober, he said, I haven't had a drink and I won't as long as you pray for me. So when he started to drink again, I prayed for you. Well, you didn't, I prayed and prayed and prayed. He laid that on me, but it wasn't to hurt my feelings. He just felt, you know.

It was a way to ease the responsibility a little bit. Yeah. Well, I mean, codependency is its own thing, right? So I was able to kind of, oh, I don't know, disappear at times. And I said, I love to draw. I would sit in the corner where my grandmother and mother would be arguing about money and liquor.

And I would sit in the corner and I would just draw and lose myself. And mama always said, oh, well, there's Carol, she's pulled her veil down. I could just see. Oh, thank goodness. Yeah, and so it bothered me. Momma lived down the hall, and I was with my grandmother.

And we had one room with a Murphy bed that she slept on. And I slept on the couch until I was 21. I never had a bed. That's crazy. But I guess that's just the way it was. Yeah, I slept on the couch. Oh, you must have been so happy to get out. Well, I got the chance to go to New York.

But when you were a kid, you weren't necessarily funny. You didn't think? Don't, nor did I know I could sing. Really? Mm-mm. I wanted to be a journalist. Yeah. Or a cartoonist.

Yes. And mama, of course she wrote, you know, she said, that's great, be a journalist, you know, and so forth. So I was graduating from Hollywood High, and I wanted to go to UCLA, and major in journalism. Sure. But we couldn't afford the tuition to UCLA.

You know how much it was? How much? Guess. That time, 1951. For a whole year? Or, I don't know, 500? $43. For the year?

For the term. Wow. And we didn't have it. Our rent was $30 a month, and we barely made that. But I said to Nanny, my grandmother, she said, go to Woodbury Secretarial School so you could be a secretary and nab the boss. That was the plan. Nab the boss, get a guy. Get the guy with money. Right. Yeah. And I said, I'm going to go to, I know, I know, I saw myself on campus. Yeah. Mark. I didn't know how I was gonna get there.

Well, our room faced the lobby of this apartment building and there were the pigeonhole mailboxes, you know, and so every morning I'd look to see if we had an envelope in our little slot. So this one morning, yeah, there was, I went and I got it, got back into the room and looked at it, and it was my name, typewritten, with the address. There was a 3 cent stamp on it, but it hadn't been mailed.

It had just been canceled. So somebody had just put it in the slot. I opened it up, and there was a $50 bill. And to this day, I don't know where that came from, because we didn't have that kind of money. What do you, what do you, you think there was someone in the building,

someone who did? Everybody was poor, and somebody, if somebody did, they'd come out and say, look what I'm doing for you, or that was my ticket to UCLA. You have no idea. No, to this day. That's crazy. So you went.

Yep, now what happened was, there was no major in journalism. Sure. You could join the Daily Bruin, the newspaper, and take a class in journalism, but there was no major. Right. So I got out the catalog and I'm looking through and I see theater arts English.

There's theater arts theater, theater arts film, theater arts English. And I thought, oh, and it's offered playwriting courses and writing courses too. So I thought, well, I'll do that and then I'll join the Daily Bruin. Well, when you were a major in TA, theater arts, whether you wanted to be a writer or a director or whatever,

as a freshman, you had to take an acting course. And you had to take scenery and lighting and costumes. Aside from all your other classes. So there I am, and I'm in this acting class. I was terrible. I was scared and all of that. But then I was in the class and one of the other students when we had to do another scene said, well, would you wanna do a scene from Red Peppers, which was Noel Coward.

Okay. And I thought, well, that could be fun. And there was a little song in it, but I had to be a cockney. So I pretended to be Betty Grable with a cockney. Yeah, yeah. So I kind there was a little song in it, but I had to be a cockney, so I pretended to be Betty Grable with a cockney. So I kind of sang a little bit, and we got an A. And then people started coming up to me, students,

saying, would you be in my one act, would you do this, so forth, so on. And then all of a sudden, I was doing a scene from a one act, and I was doing a scene from one act, and I was a pill billy lady, and I came out, and I drew on my background of Texas and Arkansas, and I came out, and it was a couple of sentences that I said, and they laughed like crazy. And I thought, I think I want to do this.

That was it. Total, total out of the blue. Yeah. Accident. You got hooked on the laughter. I got hooked on the laughter. And then another student came up, and he was in the music department.

And he said, can you carry a tune? And I said, yeah, because my mom and I, we used to kind of sing in the kitchen with the ukulele. But I didn't ever belt or do solos. And I said, yeah, he said, well, would you be in the chorus of a scene from South Pacific where the nurses are all singing with the lead, wash that man right out of my hair.

And so this gal was the lead and she was singing and I was in the chorus and I just belted and they took me out of the chorus. And he said, would you do a scene from Guys and Dolls and sing Adelaide's Lament, which is a solo. And I said, oh gosh, I don't know. I've never did it. You know, and he said, well, it's a funny song and she has a cold in the song.

She's lamenting because she has this terrible cold and it's psychosomatic. And I said, well, if she has a cold, then I don't have to sound so good. And if I hit a clam or something, a bad note, I can blame it on the cold. So I belted that out and that got great response and I thought, okay, I want to be in musical comedy.

That was it. That was it. Had there been a school of journalism, I wouldn't be talking to you now. I know, I wonder what you would have been doing. I don't know. Yeah, but that's, it's amazing, I guess to find your talent at that age,

it must be completely surprising. Total. Like you just, you're sort of like, I guess to find your talent at that age, it must be completely surprising. Total. Like, you just, you're sort of like, you had no idea that was in you. I was 18. Yeah. And I remember when I finally got the chance to go to New York and I was going to get into equity,

and I was gonna change, there was somebody, some actress whose name was Carol Bennett. And I thought maybe I should change my name, because my middle name is Creighton. So I thought Carol Creighton, that was kind of nice sound. And then I thought, no, I want to be my own name, because I had a crush on a boy in school, Tommy Tracy, all through junior high school and high school.

And I thought, if I ever ever make it I want him to know That you because he never looked at me You got him I mean all those little crazy things sure you hold on to that stuff. Yeah, you know, I remember yeah He gets old resentments, you know, they kind of they may fade a little bit Did you want to be other than what you're doing now? Well, I'm a comic, you know, I know that yeah they may fade a little, but. Did you want to be, other than what you're doing now? Well, I'm a comic, you know, I always wanted to be a comic. Yeah, but the interviewing thing came just out of

strange timing of this new medium. And, you know, I was sort of, you know, I have a way of managing my talent to guarantee that I don't ever get really big. Uh. I have a way of managing my talent to guarantee that I don't ever get really big. I don't want to let too much out. I just want to stay at this level. So when I started the podcast, you know, I was in a valley of, you know,

in terms of what I was going to do with career wise. And I had done some radio and I was doing a lot of standup, but I couldn't really sell tickets at that time. And then podcasting started to kind of happen. And we just got in on the ground floor and my producer and I just decided to do two shows a week no matter what. And at this point I've interviewed almost 1,600 people.

Oh my gosh. Most of them creatives of one kind or another. Wow. It started with comics of me basically apologizing for being an asshole to a lot of my community. And that's what created the style of interview. I would love to hear the one you did with Jonathan. Oh my God, it was so wild because I drove up,

I'll drive for people. I did Jonathan and he can get pretty dark. And that's a known thing, but if that part of your brain lives there, you'll go there. And it was very interesting, because I drove up to Marin to interview Robin, too, and it's one of the only existing sort of candid conversations with him. It was just him and I.

And both of them kind of ruminated about suicide at the end of their interviews. It was kind of intense. That there was this arc that connected them in so many ways, and there's a darkness to both of them. And of course Robin adored Jonathan. Loved him. Yeah, I mean that was the whole thing.

When you watch Jonathan, you're just like, where does... Where did that come from? Yeah. Were there other people like that? Not to my knowledge. Like when you did... I've never met other than Jonathan. He was so funny.

He was just so funny. So when you get out of UCLA, how do you get to New York? Another weird thing. I was in the opera workshop, musical comedy workshop, and so once that I did Adelaide's Lament from Pies and Dolls. Sure. So I loved being in that class.

Yeah. So I was gonna do a scene for the professor from Annie Get Your Gun. Yeah. There were about nine of us in the class, and we picked different scenes. And so our professor said, my wife and I are being given a party in San Diego

next week, next Saturday night, and it's a black tie affair. Why don't you kids come down? You'll be the entertainment for the party, and I'll grade you. Right. So I said, wow. So we all got in cars and everything and went down.

And I did my scene for Manny Gets Your Gun. Right. And I went to the buffet table and I'm stealing hors d'oeuvres in a napkin to take home to my grandmother. Oh, yeah. Put it in my purse. And there's a tap on my shoulder. And I thought, oh my god, I'm busted.

And there was this gentleman and his wife, black tie, she's in a lovely gown. He said, well, I enjoyed you very much. I said, well, thank you. He said, so what do you want to do with your life? I said, well, someday I want to go to New York where I could be on musical comedy like Ethel Merman and Mary Martin.

He said, so why aren't you there now? And I said, well, I don't have the means. I hope someday I can save up enough money. And I had a part-time job as a cashier in a movie theater on Hollywood Boulevard. 75 cents an hour. So he said, I'll lend you the money to go to New York. And I thought, well, that's a champagne talking, you know?

And I said, no, he means it. He gave me his card. He said, be in my office a week for Monday. Is he a show business guy? Nope. He was a millionaire at that time, a millionaire, in the shipbuilding business. He had an office in La Jolla, California.

I went down, also with the boy that I did the scene with, he offered it to him too. So we drove down, went into his office at nine o'clock that morning, and he said, okay, and he wrote out two $1,000 checks. He said, these are the stipulations. You must use the money to go to New York. You must never reveal my name.

And if you are successful, you must help others out. And that was it. And it's a loan, pay it back in five years if you can. To pay him back? No interest. Yeah. To the day I paid him back. Certified. And by then I was in a show called Once Upon a Mattress. That was the big one.

And I had, so it took me five, that was 1954. And what'd he say? He never said a word. Well what happened was years later when I had my show, his wife called, and she said, we'd love to have you come down and have lunch with us at the Marina in San Diego. So we did, and he was very sweet, he was kind of quiet, and on the way back to the car, I was walking with her,

and she said, you know, whenever, for any reason, if your name came up in a conversation or if you were on television and we were with other people, he never, ever, ever said a word. Never. Yeah. And you've never given his name? No.

And so, but evidently he had helped other people out, not just in showbiz, she said he helped a young man start a restaurant once, gave him the money to get that going, because he believed that he could do something. He trusted his instincts. And so, that's how I got to New York. Great story. And then you paid him back, and then you pay it forward,

and you're still aware of that. It's weird things happen like that, $50. Yeah, what is that one? Yeah, I know. Maybe he did that too. No, I didn't know him then. Yeah. So you get to New York and I guess,

looking at some of the stuff about you, I know you were in that boarding house for women. All talented people wanting to be in Broadway. The rehearsal club it's called. And what happened was I was so naive, stupid, I didn't know where I was gonna live. I mean my grandmother said, you can't go to New York, look what we can do with all that money.

I said I have to go Nanny, that's what it's for. She said, New York's cold, you'll be dead in a week, your blood's too thin. So much for that. Anyway, I said, I have to go. So it was August of 1954. You went out there with that guy? No, he came later.

So I was by my, and I got on a plane. I didn't know where I was going to go. Yeah. I had one little cardboard suitcase, and that was about it. I'm on the plane, and I'm looking through the New Yorker magazine, and I see an ad for the Algonquin Hotel. Sure. Why not?

Where the round table sat with all those brilliant people. I thought, well, I'll go there to start with. I had some money left out of the $1,000. I had to pay for the ticket, and I had to have two wisdom teeth pulled, so that went south. So I was getting low on cash. So I check into the Algonquin.

You did go. I almost had a fit. It was $9. Now our rent was $1 a day before. $9 a night was a fortune. Wow. And I thought, oh my God, what am I going to do? But anyway, I had no place to start. Okay.

I felt kind of alone in the hotel. I called home, Collect, and they said, come home, we miss you. I just got in there. I said, do I have to stay? You know, I'll keep in touch. So I hung up, and it started to rain. And I love rain. I don't like it when it's flooding, but I love rain.

Good things that happen to me a lot of times when it rains. And I thought, oh, well, okay, I'm here in New York and it's raining, turn on the radio. Hurricane Carol has hit New York. That was the name of the hurricane. You know, it gets a sign. I went, okay. So I had this one phone number, and it was a phone number of the girl who had done the

lead in, watch that man right out of my hair, that we did. She'd gone to New York a year before, and she'd gotten in touch with a friend and said, if Carol Everett gets to New York, give her this number. It's the one number I had, Ellie, and I called and it was the rehearsal club. And I got ahold of her, she said, where are you? I said, I'm at the Algonquin. What are you doing at the Algonquin?

Get out of there, come up here, I'll try to get you a cot. And so I checked out, pouring rain, walked up and got into the rehearsal club. It was all these women running around with curlers in their hair, playing the piano, vocalizing. It was a beehive of activity. And she introduced me to the house mother, Ms. Carlton.

Yeah. And she said, well, you're in luck. I have one free, I have one cot available. And it was in this, what they call the transit room, which was on the first floor, and there were four other roommates in this one room. Five women, one bathroom, one closet, $18 a week, room and board.

So. That's a good deal, right? And I had a cot, and it was like heaven, because I'd always slept on a couch. Right. Now I have a cot. And you're surrounded by talented people singing. Yeah, and so I had these four roommates

and they were all totally different characters. It was actually, we're working on making a series out of the rehearsal club. Really? In that era, in the 50s. Oh, that would've been, that'd be great. Yep, yeah, so yeah. Who's working on that with you? Apple TV, maybe. Oh, that would have been, that'd be great. Yep, yeah. So, yeah. Who's working on that with you?

Apple TV, maybe. Oh, that's a great idea. Yeah. Yeah. Because there are so many women, and they were all, we were all young, and all, you know, anxious to do, there was tap dancers, there were actresses,

there were singers, there were opera singers, there were musicians, all kinds, and there were, each one, of course, all kinds, and each one of course has their own story. Of course, yeah. You know, so it's just, it's open for a lot of people. Oh yeah, and all the light and darkness of trying to get into show business. And some are good and some are not.

Exactly. And some lose out on auditions, you know. So I, now I have to get an agent. So I go around and so they would say, well, let us know when you're in something. How do I get in something? You have, you need an agent. It was Catch 22.

Sure. So I finally got in to see one and showed him my scrapbook of UCLA rave reviews. Yeah, yeah. He said, well, let me know when you're in something. I said, but how do I do this? He said, go put on your own show. He told you to do that.

I said, okay. I went back to the club, called a meeting with all the girls. I said, let's put on a show. And we wrote our own material. And we got these ladies, rich ladies in New York who sponsored the club, which was why the rent was so cheap, inexpensive. And they gave us $200 to hire a concert hall,

Carl Fischer Concert Hall on 57th for two nights. We sent penny postcards out to every agent, director, producer in town saying, you're always saying, let us know when you're in something. Well, the girls of the rehearsal club are in something. This is your ticket, please come and see us. Yeah. We were packed for two nights

and three of us got agents right away. And that's how it happened. And you were, what were you doing? What was your act? I did a takeoff on, there was a show called New Faces of 1952 where Eartha Kitt, who was a sexy singer, sang a song called Monotonous, where she went from one chaise lounge to another very, very sexy.

Very sexy. Singing about her life was so monotonous, because everybody wanted her and all that. So I did it with three broken down kitchen chairs, as a woman with an apron, just curlers in my hair, singing how my life is monotonous. And it worked. Big laughs.

It's so funny because the first bit that you did that made you want to do comedy really becomes a character on the Burnett Show in a way. The Charm Woman, yeah. And then this one becomes some version of the cleaning lady, right? Yep. It's wild.

That there are these things that have been with you your whole life. But when, like, what I'm curious about is, like, once you get an agent and you're in New York, and I don't know when the John Foster Dulles song happened. That was in 57. So that, okay, so that was later, a couple years later? Yeah.

Is that when you have an act? Yeah. That started the act. Yeah, but what happened was, once I got the agent in 54, was when we did the reserves club review. So for that summer in 55, I went to Summer Stock called Green Mansions in the Adirondacks. And it was 10 weeks, $500.

How many shows did you do? We would do four different shows a week. We'd do a play, we would do an opera, we would do an original musical comedy. It was tough. An opera? Yeah, well I would, but other people did the opera, I did maybe a little bit, but then we'd do musical comedy,

we would do sketches, a review, all of that. So this was the education? Oh, total education, it was fabulous. And guess who was there with me? Who? Sheldon Harnick, who wrote Fiddler on the Roof, eventually. Yeah. And She Loves Me, and Adams and Strauss,

who wrote Bye Bye Birdie. They were there? We were all together. We were new. Oh my God. Yeah, they were a little bit older than I was, but maybe five years older or something. So that was sort of the musical comedy version

of the Catskills. Exactly. Right. And then the following summer, I went to Tamiment, which was in the Poconos, and that was the same kind of a thing where we would do, it was a little easier because we didn't do that many different things.

We did a musical, original musical, and a musical comedy review every week. Okay. And there was Artie Johnson. Really? Yeah. Was he always funny? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And we had just wonderful training, and Larry Kurt, who later on became the first lead in West Side Story. Wow, so this is really the training ground. They don't have it anymore. No, they don't have a lot of things anymore. No, it's so sad because it was such good training. And all these people who were creative people,

that you get all this skill set that would ultimately lead to a variety show, but also just Broadway. Totally. Yeah, and what were the audiences like? Were they just? They were people who came to- For the summer kind of deal? Well, for the week.

They would change each week. Okay. There would be new group of people coming in. Yeah. And we had to be good because we offered ourselves there and if they didn't want to come, they would be going out in a canoe and necking, you know. Yeah.

And they were looking to hook up a lot of the people who came, they were mostly single. You know, so. So the show had to be fun. Had to be good to keep them there, yeah. Oh, that's incredible, okay, because it really is like, you know, on the other side, it sounds like the Catskills experience for stand-ups.

Right, right. The audience was different, I think they were a little, middle-class Jewish people going up there as mid-rating family. Right, that's true, yeah, yeah. But the theater thing was just fun. It was great. And that's where they wrote Once Upon a Mattress. Mary Rogers, who wrote the music and all.

And they created Once Upon a Mattress. I wasn't there then. Right. That was after I was there. So when you come back to New York after doing these for two years, you have an act? Well, Ken Welch, who was a piano player at one of the auditions I went to,

followed me after I had auditioned for one of the summer stock places, and he gave me his card. He was a special material writer. And he said, I really loved what you did, and so if you ever need, he was a special material writer. And he said, I really loved what you did, and so if you ever need a coach or a special material, please call me. So after I got Green Mansions and I came back to New York

and I was living at the club, I called him. And I was part-time checking hats at a ladies' tea room for money, which is not too many women check their hats, but they check packages and stuff like that. And so I would pay him, it was $10 a session, I'd pay him in quarters and dimes and nickels for my tip. And he wrote the John Foster Dulles number. And we auditioned that for the Blue Angel,

and they hired me. The club. The club. Yeah. And then he wrote a 20 minute act. He wound up being, along then later on with his wife, special material writers for me until maybe they died five years ago.

Oh my God. They did all my specials with Beverly Sills, with Posh Lido Domingo, with Julie Andrus. They wrote all of those specials, and they wrote on my show. Wow, so that was some relationship. It was, yeah. And the act, was it like a cabaret act, basically?

Yeah, yeah. And I would do, I would say, oh, different types of singers. Okay. Here's the one who's auditioning and very nervous, and then I would say, oh, different types of singers. Okay. Here's the one who's auditioning and very nervous. Oh yeah, yeah. And then I would do her. Then here's the one who's got more confidence

than Ethel Merman, and I would do her. So I would go into character. I wasn't a standup doing jokes. I couldn't do it. Were you on bills with standups? Yeah, and also I was on a bill with Mike and Elaine. Mike Nichols and Elaine May. Sure. That's how we met.

That's how you met Mike Nichols. Yep. Who went on to- Who went on also to write- Julie Andrews and you. Yeah, he wrote with Ken Welsh. He wrote Carnegie Hall. Wow, so you're on a bill, what club was that?

The Blue Angel Nightclub. So you saw them do their bit. That must have been great. Insane. Yeah. It was so fabulous. And the show was usually what, two or three acts? There would be four acts

and it would be like 20 minutes a session. And you'd do two a night. Okay. One at eight o'clock and another around midnight. So that was mostly, those were the gigs you were doing when you did the last shows. Yeah, so then what happened was I did the Dulles number and I got on the Parr show, Jack Parr.

To do that number. And I did that number and all hell broke loose. Right. I went back to do the midnight show and the phones were ringing off the hook. Some people very upset about that girl who did that number. They were upset. Some people were and some people got it.

So John Foster Dulles was secretary of state. Yep. Notoriously, sort of seemingly a boring guy. Well, yeah, he was aptly named. Yes. Let's put it that way. So, what happened was one of the calls that night, that was a Tuesday, was from a man named David Waters, who was his television representative.

Sure. And he said, Mr. Dulles didn't see it, but could you go back on the Parr show Thursday? So Jack Parr had me back on on Thursday. Then Ed Sullivan called, and I did it on Sunday. So three times that week, I did the Dulles number. And those are the only shows people are watching. Right. It was like, I was all over.

Everyone in the world. I was in like the editorial pages and stuff, on and on and on. And of course, as hot as I was that week, I was as cold in the next two weeks as a fit. Well, that's interesting about a novelty song, right? Yeah, yeah, I was just a girl who's like, but what I loved was the following week,

Dulles was on Meet the Press, and I'm watching, and so towards the end, right at the end, before signing off the interview, he said, Mr. Dulles, I just have one question. What is this thing that's going on between you and that girl who sings that love song about you, and I'm watching the teller, oh my God. And he got a twinkle in his eye and he said, I make it a matter of policy never to discuss matters

of the heart in public. He had a sense of humor. That's great. Isn't that great? Yeah, you went all the way to the top. You were in the White House with that thing. Yeah, right. And so, but it didn't lead anywhere.

Of course it did. Not really. thing. Yeah, right. And so, but it didn't lead anywhere, of course it did. Not really, it was just, yeah. So I, you know, that I was, I kept doing my nightclub act and then I remember when I was gonna go to New York and my friends from UCLA gave me a bon voyage party. Yeah. And they said, what are you gonna do when you get to New York?

I said, I'm gonna be in a Broadway show directed by George Abbott someday. So now I'm home. In New York. New York. Now you married? Yeah, yep. Yes, I married the boy that I did the number with.

The other $1,000 guy? Yeah. And now we were raising my kid sister. I brought her back to live with me. What's the age difference? She was, I'm 11 years older, so she was a teenager. Is she still around? Oh yeah.

Oh good. And so, this one, I was up for a role. They were gonna redo Babes in Arms, Oscar Hammerstein and Richard Rodgers. And they were gonna open it in Florida. And I auditioned, and they liked me, and they thought I, they were gonna hire me to sing Johnny One Note, which was a major song.

And I thought I had it, and the director called, he wanted me, but he said, Carol, I'm sorry, but you're not gonna but they want a name. Yeah. Oh, okay. So I was really disappointed. And my kid sister said, we still call each other Sissy.

She said, Sissy, you know the cliche. You always say one door closes, another one opens. The phone rang that instant. I picked it up and it was the producers of a show called Once Upon a Mattress said, would you like to come down now and audition for George Abbott? We're doing,

what's your, Come on. I got in the subway, went down. That afternoon, then I lost the other job. Right. Sang for George Abbott, got on the subway, came home, the phone was ringing, I had the part. The $50. Yeah.

The $1,000. Yeah. George Abbott. Yeah. It's like, I don't know, I got a little angel here. Yeah, it seems like it. So that show was off Broadway at first? Off Broadway.

And it was only gonna be a six week run because it's a subscription. And I had a little bit of Rosalyn Russell in me. I don't know if you know what I mean. But of making things happen. I remembered her in a movie called Front Page, and she would grab the bull by the horns,

and I thought, I'm gonna be Rosalyn Wilson. And I started a campaign to move us to another theater. Don't close us. Move us to Broadway. Oh, you were pushing for that. So what we did was we made up signs and we were in our costumes after we took the bows. We'd run out in front of the theater

as the audience is coming out. And the sign would say, a house, a house, our kingdom for a house, find a house for a mattress. And they moved us to the Alvin. And we played there until another show was coming in. Then they moved us to the Winter Garden. We played there until another show was coming in and then they moved us to the Winter Garden. We played there until another show came in. And it's like selling out, it's packing out. It's the thing to do. Yeah and we they put us to six different theaters in one year. I remember Neil

Simon said, have you seen Mattress yet? Don't worry it'll soon be at your neighborhood theater. And we ran, I left after a year, but I was in it for a whole year, and then by then I was also doubling with Gary Moore. You got the Gary Moore variety show. Right. And did you find theater like over and over again kind of boring?

Yeah, I finally did. I thought I was gonna be a theater person. Yeah. I never thought of television, we didn't even have a television, you know, when I was growing up. And I got the Gary Moore gig, and I loved the idea of being different characters

every week, different songs every week, a different challenge every week. That that became more interesting to me than having to do the same thing eight shows a week. Yeah, because you never know an audience, and it's hard to make it fresh, I would imagine. Exactly, yeah, you have to remember that, even though you've done it a hundred times,

this is the first time the audience is seeing it. Yeah. So you really have to gear yourself up for that. Yeah. But I doubled. Yeah. Well, it must have given you a new life to things. Well, I was young too.

And so that was really the big TV break, Gary Moore. And you're doing bit parts here and there? No, not really, because I was doubling with Mattress. Sure, and you were a regular on Gary Moore? Yeah, and I won an Emmy. That's amazing. I won my first Emmy on Gary's show. So then when do you start doing,

you did the Jack Benny show at some point? Oh, that was when we moved out to California. Oh, that happened. So what brings you to California? I was married and- To the same guy? No. New guy.

The producer of the Gary Moore show, actually. What was his name? Joe Hamilton. Yeah, Joe Hamilton. So he was your producer forever. Yeah. Yes. And so with the Gary Moore show, I was gonna? Joe Hamilton. Yeah, Joe Hamilton. So he was your producer forever. Yeah. Yes. And so with the Gary Moore show,

I was gonna leave the show. Yeah. And so the agent worked out a deal with CBS. Right. And I was doing really well. On Gary Moore. And you're an Emmy winner. Yeah.

It's so funny because when I was a kid, I can remember your show, but I remember Gary Moore was like, was he Truth or Consequences? What was the game show? What's my line? No, it's the one they, No, it's To Tell the Truth.

To Tell the Truth, right, okay. It's interesting, those jobs. Because he was like, you know, a variety guy, a funny guy. He was, he was, you know what, he was also one of the kindest, you never hear too many people say this, but I was the second banana, which means supporting, and Derward Kirby was, and he was very funny.

I remember that guy. And so we'd be at a table read on Monday for Friday's show. Yeah. And if Gary had a punchline or a joke or something and he wasn't, he'd say, you know what? Give this line to Carol or give it to Derward. They can say it funnier than I can. He was that generous.

Sure. And that's what I wanted to do when I got my show. I wanted to give it to Harvey. Sure. I wanted to give it to Tim, to Vicki. We should all score, it's a rep company. Yeah. Might have my name on it,

but I'll support Tim in a sketch. Harvey will support Vicki in a sketch. But it's so funny, you guys, there's no, like I imagine Gary Moore was a bit of a straight man, no? Yes. So like on your show, there wasn't really a straight man, maybe Lyle. Lyle, occasionally, but then we gave him,

and he turned out to be pretty funny at times, yeah. So how the deal was structured, so you had to deal with CBS. Oh yeah, what happened was, the deal the deal was structured so you had to deal with CBS What happened was the deal with CBS was I signed a contract for 10 years And which would mean they would do one Special a year and two guest shots. Okay. Yeah one of his sitcoms or whatever But within the first five years if I Carol wanted to do an hour-long comedy variety show, all I had to do was push the button,

and CBS would have to put it on for 30 shows within the first five years. And I thought, well, I could never be a host. So now, Joe and I, and I have a baby, who are in California. I'm not that in demand that much anymore. Is your grandma still around? Nothing, no.

But she did get to see me in mattress. And so, it's the last week of the fifth year and we just put a down payment on a house and we look around we send Joe's, maybe we should push that button. So okay, so Christmas is between Christmas and New Year's and it would be over in another week, right? So I called New York and talked to one of the vice presidents. And he said, oh, did you have a nice Christmas? Yeah. I said, Mike, I'm calling because I

want to push that button. He said, what button? They didn't remember. And I said, you know where I get to do 31-hour shows, comedy, variety? Let me get back to you. Yeah. So I'm sure they got a lot of lawyers out of some Christmas parties that night. Yeah.

He called the next day. He said, yeah, Carol, I see. He said, but you know, comedy variety is a man's game. He said, it's not for you gals. So who are those? Who's he talking about? Like Dean Martin? No, Sid Caesar. Okay. Jackie Gleason, Milton Berle,

and now Dean Martin. And he said, we've got this sitcom maybe we'd love you to do called Here's Agnes. Can you picture it? Yeah, kind of. Here's Agnes. And I said, I don't want to be Agnes every week. I want to be different people

I'm gonna have a rep company. I want guest stars. I want dancers. I want music. Yeah They had to put us on the air and who was the original crew? Harvey Vicki and Lyle and how'd you find them? Well, I've seen Harvey on the Danny K show. Yeah. He was a great second banana. He was like Carl Reiner was with Cesar.

I said, we've got to get to the Harvey court finally. But Danny's show was going off the air as we were going to go on. Right. So I saw Harvey in the parking lot at CBS. And I said, you've got to be on our show. And over then, we worked it out. So we got Harvey.

Yeah. Carl Reiner had said, you know, you ought to get a good looking hunk as an announcer for you to go crazy over at times. So we auditioned and the Lyle came in. Of course, he looked beautiful. But he was also funny. Vicki, this is January of 1967,

we're gonna go on the air in September of 67. And we were thinking about doing a sketch every so often where Harvey and I are a married couple, and we're raising my kid sister. Anyway, I'm at home, and I'm reading fan mail. Yeah. Open this letter from this girl, Vicki Lawrence, says, everybody says that I remind them of a young you

and I want to be in showbiz. It was very sweet. And then she enclosed a newspaper article that had her picture in it, her hometown newspaper in Inglewood. She was going to be in a contest called Miss Fireball of Inglewood. And so they were featuring, there were nine other girls,

and each day they were featuring an article on each one of the girls. So she sent me her article, and she looked more like me at 17 than I did. You know, I thought, maybe she might be good for this role. So I'd look at the date, and the date of the Miss Fireball contest is tonight, because they sent it from CBS two weeks ago or whatever,

and the contest is, I just got the, so Joe coming downstairs, I said, don't get too comfortable, we're gonna go see the Miss Fireball contest and go, what, tonight? What are you talking, I said, look at that. He said, well, shouldn't you call her and tell her? I said, yeah, I should. Her father's name was listed in the article,

Howard Lawrence, so I dialed information, got her phone number. Yeah. Ring ring, this lady answers, hello. I said hi, is Vicki Lawrence there? She said, this is her mother, who's calling? And I said, it's Carol Burnett. Vicki!

Vicki gets on the phone and says, yeah, hi, Marcia. She thought somebody was putting her on. I said, it's not Marcia, I got your letter. Would you be comfortable? She said says yeah. Hi Marcia. She thought somebody was putting right right That's it. It's not Marcia. I got your letter. Would you be comfortable if we come to see you tonight in the contest? Yeah, okay We went sorry. She won the contest. Yeah, I said we'll be in touch We've gotten hold of her the following summer. She came and auditioned.

And that was it. Today, no network would let me do that. They would not let you hire somebody right out of high school that had no experience. But CBS let us do it and it took a while, but she started to just absorb everything. Harvey took her under his wing and taught her what to do with props, how to listen, and how to react.

He helped her with accents. Oh really? Yeah, it was a master class. And so she learned her trade in front of 30 million people every week. And she was so good. She's great. Yeah.

And here she was gonna be a dental hygienist. Oh my God. And she did some singing. I remember we had an A track. Oh, yeah. Like, that's the night the lights went out in Georgia, right? That was it. She won a gold record.

Yeah. She did all right. So now you're off and running with this show. And you got Lyle, you got Harvey, and you got Vicki. And we would have Tim on every month. How funny is that? He had his own show for a while, a couple of shows. And it wasn't until our ninth year that we had him on every month. And then he had his own show for a while, couple of shows, and it wasn't until our ninth year that we had him on every week.

People thought he was a regular for the whole time, but we had him on so many times. It's just too much. I mean, what was it, how did writing work on the show? We had all our comedy writers would get together. What was the staff, how big? We had maybe six or seven writers with a head writer. Then we would have the special material writers,

which was Ken Missy. Sure, for the music stuff? For the music stuff. Choreographer, Ernie Flat, who was the choreographer for the Gary Moore Show. OK. And we had, and so I would sometimes go and say, for Ernie Flat, who was the choreographer for the Kerry Moore Show. Okay. And so I would sometimes go and say, you know, because I love doing the movie take-offs.

And I said, could we do Mildred Pierce maybe, you know? Or Postman Always Rings Twice, some of the Double Indemnity. So they'd get to work and maybe in three weeks, I'd have Mildred Fierce, we called it. So they'd get to work and maybe in three weeks I'd have Their mildred fierce we called it and we do that. Yeah. Yeah and lots of times Harvey and Vicki and we would be rehearsing and if we thought of a better line or something We'd put it in we'd have the writers come down and look at it. They were so good They would say listen if you can make it better just they weren't that

into their own yeah but they were also working for you yeah they were very you know and and there were times too when if I wasn't comfortable with something because I was a woman yeah see Gleason Jackie Gleason or said Caesar would say come on guys, this sucks. Come on, you gotta fix this, and they would be fine. But if a woman did that at that time, she would be a bitch. Right. So I would tiptoe and tap dance around,

I'd say, you know guys, come on down. I'm not doing this too, do you think you can help me out? Right. Yeah. So that was the way I could get away with and not hurt their feelings. Oh, that's something. And you were aware of that early on.

Oh yeah. Did you know Gleason? Yeah, I met him at a party, a couple of parties, at Bob Hope's house. Oh yeah? Yeah. Did you know a lot of those guys, all those like the- Well, I had Sid Caesar on my show.

Sure, I saw that. And I was thrilled because I used to, when I was at the rehearsal club, I wouldn't miss Caesar's Hour on Saturday night. Right. It was a live 90 minute show with him, Curl, Nanette Febre. Oh, who you had on your show.

Yeah, a lot. She was so funny, yeah, so funny. Oh, who you had on your show. Yeah, a lot. She was so funny. Yeah, so funny. Yeah, and I just loved his work. And that's kind of what I patterned my show after, that and Gary's show, to do sketches and stuff, you know, and musical numbers. Well, I mean, I think, it seemed like it was the only one

that really, like, took the sketches as seriously as, yeah, I didn't, you know, you saw bits on other shows that didn't seem to, you had four pieces. Yeah, we would do 15 minute pieces. Yeah. And we really got serious at times with the family. I know, yeah. With Eunice and Mama and all.

And there was one time we were rehearsing, and we decided, I just said to Harvey, I said, let's just right now in rehearsal, do it straight without the accents, and play it straight. Don't change a line. It was devastating. To feel the emotion of it?

Oh my gosh. But then once we added the spin to it with the accents and the this and that, and a little over the top, then it became funny. But there were no jokes in it. It was all character driven. Well, I imagine that in particular,

that recurring sketch, I think somehow or another, for the general public, they must have felt very seen by the stuff you were doing. Well, a lot of the mail said, it was a dysfunctional family. And a lot of the male I would go and say, this reminds me of times with my family. One time I was getting a manicure and she was Russian. She's filing my nails, she said,

you know the family you do? I said, yeah, she said, it's like my family in Russia. So, it's worldwide. It's like my family in Russia. So it's worldwide. It's worldwide. Yeah, it's right. It's just the emotion of dysfunction. And what was funny was we never knew we were gonna do it more than once.

So they were gonna have me play mama and get a guest star to play Eunice. I said, you know, Eunice speaks to me because it reminded me of my mother with her dreams that didn't come true. And so we were gonna hire an older lady to come in and be mama. And Bob Mackie, our costume designer said,

because we think who could we get in it? And Vicki had grown in her comedy. Bob Mackie, our costume designer said, let's get Vicki to do it. We'll put her in a fat suit, take her eyelashes off, and put her in a wig. She can her eyelashes off, put her in a wig, she can be mama. Yeah, and it worked.

She was 24 years old. I'm 16 years older than she is, and I'm playing her daughter. She was fabulous. Yeah, it was great. And it just became this whole thing. Like, because of the ensemble, it seemed like you really had your own world there.

And outside of a lot of what was going on. I mean, you had guests. How'd the booking work? We would just say, I'd love to have so and so on. And invite them? And we'd call. Yeah, and they'd come? Yeah, and oh my God, to have Betty Grable on.

Everybody. Rita Hayworth. Sure. Lana Turner. Everybody. Being Crosby. Yes. I mean.

You got to sing with your heroes. Right. But we didn't talk about the Julie Andrews I mean that the the Carnegie Hall. Yeah before you left New York Right. That was an interesting pairing that just sort of happened. Well, she was a guest on the Gary Moore show Okay, and you guys met and yeah, and well actually she came to see me in mattress Okay, and we some friends said you got you girls should get to know each other, I know you'd like each other. And by then she was in Camelot. Uh-huh.

So, but she was off that night and she came and with her manager and a friend of mine and afterwards we went to a Chinese restaurant. Those poor men had no, they couldn't, we were like long lost sisters. And it just clicked. So when she was on Gary's show, Ken Welch, the special material writer,

wrote a whole thing about Big D where we played Cowboys. And we did that on Gary's show. And it's the first time I've ever seen a television audience give a standing ovation. So the idea was born that we should do a special together and then thought Carnegie Hall. And so I remember Bob Banner, who was the executive producer of the Kerry Moore Show, said, tried to push it to CBS and they didn't want it. They said, you know, Carol, everybody sees you every week

and nobody knows who Julie Andrews is outside of My Fair Lady, because she hadn't done a movie yet. So, it didn't, Don and now I'm at an affiliates luncheon with CBS at a table and I don't know, I had quite a mouth on me. I said, well, you know, if you guys don't want to do it, we could go over to NBC, at least they're in color. You know?

And they still, you know. And so after the luncheon, it's raining. They come down and the two vice presidents are saying, we'll wait and see if you can get a cab and we'll help you. I said, don't worry, I'll be fine. I said, somebody's going to pull up and give me a ride. Yeah.

Again, a beer truck pulled up and the guy leans out and says, hey, Carol, you wanna lift? They hoisted me up into the cab. The guy drove me home to Central Park South. I thanked him so much, I got out. The phone is ringing, open the door. It's Oscar Katz, who was the vice president of CBS. You got your show.

Because of the beer truck? Yeah, if somebody recognized me, it was a whole, and I said that, and it was like, okay, well something's going on here. And we got the show. That's great. And how'd you get Mike Nichols to come on? Julie.

Yeah, Julie knew him better than I did. And she said, you know, he's a very good writer. And then Kenny, of course, was gonna do all the special material. And so, yeah. Oh, that's amazing. Did you ever feel, like did you ever have bits that bombed?

Oh yeah. Because it felt like because of the nature of the ensemble that none of you would let that happen. Well, we were doing one sketch called Mary Worthless. And there was a cartoon called Mary Worth. I mean, she was this kindly old lady who would enter people's lives and solve their problems. So, I thought it'd be funny, if I'm Mary Worthless,

and I go in and I screw everything up with this couple, she's nosy, she does everything wrong, and then at the end I was saying, I was supposed to say, and that was what I did this week, so stay tuned because pretty soon you'll see more of Mary Worthless. Well, we did it, it was awful. It was just, the audience looked like an oil painting.

And so now it comes from me to say, tune in, and I said, I was going to say to say, two times, then I said, I was going to say to tune in and see, but I am never going to do this character again. And it went on the air. It did? Oh yeah. Oh, that saved it then.

Now, I know that y'all tried to not laugh, but boy. No, we didn't. It was never on purpose. Yeah. Ever. Yeah. But Conway would go off script. Yeah.

And it was gold. Yeah. Let him. Well, why? Because Harvey couldn't control himself. ever. But Conway would go off script. And it was gold. Let him. Well, why? Because Harvey couldn't control himself. And Harvey hated himself because he was very proud of his comedy chops. He was very serious about it.

But Conway, all he had to do was just look at him in a funny way and Harvey was gone. But that added to it. Oh, of course. And you had a pretty good friendship with Lucy, right? Yes. And did she, like, how did that work? Did she see you and realize that you-

She came to see me in mattress. Okay. The second night. And I was so nervous, she came backstage. She called me kid. Yeah. Because she was 22 years older. And she said, a kid if you ever need me for anything.

She was so sweet. So like about four years later, I was gonna do a special. And only if I could get a big guest star. So Bob Banner, who was the executive, said call Lucy. And I said, I didn't want to bother her, you know, it was years ago. All she can do is say, I'd love to, but I'm busy.

I got her on the phone, and I said, you're doing great, kid, and what is it, what's going on? I was fumpfering, I said, you know, I'm gonna do, but I know you're busy, she said, when do you want me? So we did the special. So that's how that happened. How funny was that? Oh, she was great.

And we did a song called Chutzpah at the end where we were two cleaning ladies. And Ken Welch and Mitzi wrote that. So then she did my show as a guest, she did three of them. So my husband Joe was producing our show. Okay. And so Lucy was a guest and we had a break and we went over to the farmer's market

to have a little bite to eat. Right there at CVS? Yeah. To eat before orchestra rehearsal. So she's sitting there and she's having a whiskey sour, just gonna knock him one back. And she said, you know, kid, it's great you got Joe to be the producer.

She said, because when I was married to the Cuban, because they were divorced by then, she said, he did everything. He took care of the scripts, he took care of the lighting, he was the one who invented the three camera system, and he was everything, so that when I came in on Monday, everything was perfect. All I had to do was be silly, great, Lucy.

Then we got a divorce, and she said, now I'm gonna do, be Lucy Carmichael and do those other, the Lucille Ball, show the Lucy show. She said, so I go into, I read the script and she said, it's terrible, it's stank. There wasn't Desi there who would have fixed it. And she said, I didn't know what to do.

I thought, oh my God. So she said, she called lunch and she said, I went into my office and I said, I thought, I've gotta be like Desi. I've gotta be tough. I've gotta be, you know. She said, so I went back and she said, and I told him in no uncertain terms,

she said, I channeled Desi. And then she said, and kid, and she took another drink. She said, and that's when they put the S on the end of my last name. Yeah. Yeah. She seemed tough. Oh, she was great.

She sent me, oh, this is sweet. She sent me flowers on my birthday every year. Yeah. Happy birthday, kid. And so in the morning of my 56th birthday, I got up, turned on the news, she died on my birthday. Oh my God. And I got her flowers that afternoon.

Wow. That's touching. Yeah. Sad, but beautiful. Yeah. I had talked to Paul Thomas Anderson. Oh yeah. Yeah, a while back.

And I'm driving down here and I realize, well his dad was best friends with Tim. Yeah, Ernie. Yeah, a while back. And I'm driving down here and I realize, well his dad was best friends with Tim. Yeah, Ernie. Yeah, Ernie. So you knew Ernie. He was on our show a few times. Yeah. And at one point, after Lyle left, he was our announcer.

Was Paul Thomas Anderson hanging around? He was a baby. I knew Paulie. Paulie. Yeah, even before he was born. You know, they had five kids, I knew Paulie, Paulie. Yeah, even before he was born. You know, they had five kids, I think. Wow. Yeah.

That's so funny. Yeah, yeah. Because his dad, yeah, he seemed like a character. Oh, he was, he was a character. He and Tim were partners back in Cleveland, Ohio, on television, I don't know. Ernie was a magician. The great Goulardi. Right, yes.

And in terms of doing films, did you like doing it? Certain ones, yes, I had fun. Others, I didn't. A lot of waiting, right? Yeah, yeah. But I loved working with Bob Altman Oh for the wedding Yeah wedding and health

None of the films did well, but right he was so great to work for but Annie was huge right Annie was huge. Yeah, and Houston was very good. It's interesting movie for him that you got to work with that guy. Yeah, it was strange I always thought that maybe Ray Stark called him up to play Daddy Warbucks, because John Huston would have been in. Was it Albert Finney, who did it? He did, yeah. But I just have a feeling that he said no,

but then Ray said, well then will you direct? I wonder if that's how it went down. And I know that your daughter, Carrie, struggled with addiction and stuff. Yeah, she got sober just before she turned 18. Oh wow. Now did you do the Al-Anon thing too or no? Yeah, I did.

Oh yeah? Yeah. But then she became quite a good actress. Yes. And she did a little cult film called Tokyo Pop, which they've just reissued. Oh, that's exciting. And I remember she got a call from Marlon Brando.

Come on, yeah. Who wanted to meet with her for a project. She turned him down. I became a stage mother. I said, are you crazy? She said, mom, I did the movie. Now I want to concentrate on writing my music. And I want to concentrate on directing.

She had all of that. X-Files was on. And Vince Gilligan, who later created Breaking Bad, was on, a writer on X-Files. And she was on a writer on Exiled. And she was in an episode that he wrote. And when I got to know Vince. When you did Better Call Saul? Well, I got to know him even before that.

Oh, yeah. And he said Carrie was their favorite guest. Oh, that's sweet. She was a really good actress, and they wanted to have her back. Yeah, so sad. She got sick, huh? Yeah. Now what was this thing I wrote about you taking AA

to Russia with? Oh God, Carrie and I did, yeah. How does that happen? How did you decide to take Alcoholics Anonymous to Russia? There was a man, and I can't think of his name, whom I had met when I did a movie called Life of the Party about a woman, Beatrice, who was actually, is a true story, she got the first woman's home for alcoholic women in LA.

And she was an alcoholic, but got sober. And so I did a movie about her. So I met him and he said, he had gone to Russia a few times and he said, if we show that movie in Russia, would you come? Wow. And so I took Carrie with me and we went, cause she could talk to the young people

and we had an interpreter. And they showed that movie with subtitles throughout entire 11 time zones in Russia. Wow. Yeah. Had an impact? Mm-hmm, well, I don't know if it lasted. Right.

You know, but, and they wanted to bring alcoholics and honors over there. And so the best way to introduce it would be with that film. Oh, that's interesting. Sure. Wow. That's a whole journey. That was a long time ago. Never knew you're gonna do that. Yeah.

And now the acting, like, see, I'm 60 and I'm already tired. So, like, in terms of, like, working, do you just love it? Or do you just want to stay busy? Well, only if it's going to be fun. Yeah. And you had fun on Better Call Saul?

Oh, I loved it. Yeah. I loved it. And Odin Kirk and I and Ray Sehorn, we're like this now. I made all kinds of new friends in the past three years. Sure. With him and Ray and Saul, and of course, Vince Gilligan and Peter Gould, all of them.

It was one of the best experiences I've ever had. And Glee, that was great, and Lynch. Yeah, oh and Jane, we see Jane, she lives up here. Oh she does? Yeah. That's sweet. Yeah, we just had dinner with her a couple of weeks ago. Mad about you, you got an Emmy, right, for that?

Yeah. That's great. And then, now this new one, like I said weeks ago. Mad about you, you got an Emmy, right, for that? Yeah. That's great. And then, now this new one, like I said, I enjoyed it a lot, it seemed like fun, and these period pieces are kind of amazing when they're done that well. Yeah, yeah. And I think that the idea for the rehearsal house

as a period piece would be amazing. I think so too. Great talking to you. Thank you. Thank you for doing it. Well, I'm being with you. Yeah, it was fun. I'm so too. Great talking to you. Thank you. Thank you for doing it. Well, I'm being with you. Yeah, it was fun. Okay, that was beautiful and amazing for me.

I hope it was for you too. Palm Royale is now streaming on Apple TV Plus. A new episode stream on Wednesdays. Hang out for a minute. Addiction doesn't discriminate people. In Canada, for instance, we lose 20 people to drug overdose every single day. So if you're listening to this and you've experienced addiction, just know that you're not alone.

CAMH is the Center for Addiction and Mental Health, and they're hard at work creating better treatments and interventions for anyone experiencing addiction. CAMH is revolutionizing our understanding of the brain and transforming patient care by knocking down the barriers that keep people from getting help. Sometimes it feels like there's no hope if you're feeling the impact of addiction in your life. Maybe you experience it directly or maybe indirectly,

like if you're dealing with the effects it has on your family or friends or coworkers. You don't have to surrender to hopelessness because CAMH is confronting addiction head on through groundbreaking research. And right now you can partner with CAMH to build a future where no one is left behind. Help change mental health care forever. Donate at CAMH.CA slash WTF to help CAMH treat addiction and build hope. That's CAMH.CA slash WTF.

Okay, folks, in 2016, I had a great talk with Carol's Palm Royale co-star, Kristen Wiig. It's a great talk, and you can listen to it now for free in whatever podcast app you're using. It's episode 734. You were a closet goth girl? Yeah, I got into it more after high school. I kind of embraced my, it wasn't goth so much, but not conforming to fashion and coloring my hair and piercing things.

Radical, what'd you pierce? Well, I pierced my nose and a few in my ear and my belly button and my tongue. You did all of that? Yes. And they're all gone now? They're all gone. I have a little one up here at the top in my ear and my belly button and my tongue. You did all of that. Yes. And they're all gone now? They're all gone. I have like a little one up here at the top of my ear.

Actually, I got that one in New York when I was on SNL. Oh, so that was a more recent piercing. That's a more recent one. No, never throw the tongue post in? No, that closes up after like an hour. It's like an alien. Yeah. So you're all pierced up, but no tats?

No, I had tats. Yeah, I've got three, and one of them I'm in the process of removing, and that's the one I got at that time. Oh yeah? Um, it's so ugly. Where is it? Where do you think? Mm-hmm. It's just...

On your lower back? Yeah. I mean, it's not lower, lower back. I try to say it's not a tramp stamp. It's higher than a tramp stamp. It's a little higher. Again, that's episode 734 with Kristen Wiig. To get every episode of WTF ad free, sign up for WTF Plus by going to the link in the episode description or go to WTFpod.com and click on WTF Plus. And a reminder before we go, this podcast is hosted by Acast. So So So So So Boomer lives, Monkey and Lafond to cat angels everywhere.