WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1529 - Alex Edelman

Episode Date: April 11, 2024

Alex Edelman is the kind of comic who makes Marc immediately anxious. But it’s quickly apparent that Marc is reacting to the fact that he sees so much of himself in Alex. They’re both still dealing with complex feelings about their Jewish identities. They both paid their comedy dues doing road gigs in Boston. They both experiment with long-form storytelling, wondering if they’re doing one-man shows or standup, or if there’s a difference. They hash all this out as they discuss Alex’s new HBO special, Just For Us. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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that they're not alone. Help CAMH build a future where no one is left behind. So, who will you rise for? Register today at sunrisechallenge.ca. That's sunrisechallenge.ca. Lock the gates! ["What the Fuckers?" by The Bunch plays.] Alright, let's do this. How are you what the fuckers?

What the fuck buddies? What the fuck, Nick? What's happening? I'm Mark Maron. This is my podcast. WTF going strong for God. I don't even know how many years. How many years has it been?

Oh my God. Like since 2009, it's crazy. The guy at the post office, my guy Victor at the post office said to me today, I went over there and it turns out that a lot of the incoming has trickled off which is probably for the best. I mean there was so much stuff coming in there for a while but down at the PO box I see Victor I've been seeing him for a long time, but he said to me today, he's known me for 20 years. The post office guy.

I know this is not a big shocker in that plenty of people have people in their lives, especially if you live in the same city for a long time that you've known a long time. But there was just some moment there where I was like, oh my God. And I look at him now, I look at me now, I remember when he was a younger guy,

but he was always at the post office. He used to come see shows when I do, uh, the Steve Allen theater, him and his girlfriend, they were kind of artsy people. And it's just, I don't know, man. I'm not in a zone where I'm like, where did the time go? But I, I am in a zone of like, holy shit. The time is gone. It's not where it'd go.

I know where it went. If I sit there and I put it into a chronological order and I think of all the things I've been through, I can see that there's plenty of years between all of them. But when somebody says, especially a guy at the post office, Victor says, I've known you 20 years. I'm like, holy shit. And I've been noticing that a lot lately. I'm not complaining, but I guess it happens. You hit a certain age and there you are. You've known the guy at the post office for 20 years. But man, I don't know.

It was kind of shocking because I had to stand there and be like, holy shit. It has been that long since I lived up in the old house and stuff, but it's all right. Not complaining. And for those of you who are wondering, I've been laying off it in terms of talking about it, but the foot is healing fine. No surgery necessary.

Went to the doc yesterday. He said, you don't have to come back here anymore unless you're in pain or something happens, but get out there and live your life. He said, enjoy it. Get on that foot work it So that's where I'm at. No surgery a little bit of pain in certain positions. Thank you for asking Today on the show Alex Edelman is here. He's a comic and writer And I met him when he was a kid

I think I met him when he was a kid and He rubbed me the wrong way to be quite honest with you. And I don't know that that's unusual for this particular personality and I think he understands that but uh but you know you get older I don't know. He was just one of these kids he was coming on strong he started doing comedy when he was in his teens and I met him I can't even remember was the comedy seller he was down from New York, he's a Boston guy, and he was telling stories like he was an old guy. And you know, we all do a little of that when you're trying to kind of wedge your way into the big guy's table, telling the tall tales about the road, but this kid was like 12.

He wasn't 12, he was probably, I don't know, maybe 20, maybe 19. But there's always that moment where you realize later that maybe the reason why this guy rubbed me the wrong way is because he's a little like me But yeah, you know he he's doing the work. All right He's doing the work and it was one of these situations where I'm like dude This kid just did a special about being Jewish in a very Jewish way and I think that's important. The voice of Jews as Jews being Jewish is necessary. No hiding folks, no hiding. In 2022 his show Just For Us, which is the show, opened off Broadway then it moved to Broadway the following

year. It's now an HBO special. But ultimately to have a conversation about the type of Judaism that he comes from, which is Orthodox, not Hasidic, not ultra Orthodox, but Orthodox, like, you know, wearing a kippah outside kind of deal, uh, was something that it was good. It was good for me. It was a good conversation to have. He's a thoughtful guy, smart guy. The, the show is funny.

And I think through this process, and I've done it with many people on this show, and I don't think I need to mention them by name, but I overcome whatever my little peeves are, whatever my little resentment is, whatever my judgment is. I'm not saying that it fully goes away, but I thought that the conversation needed to happen and I'm

glad it did. I'm in Austin, Texas at the Paramount Theatre on Thursday April 18th as part of the Moon Tower Comedy Festival. Sophie Buttle, the very funny Sophie Buttle, will be opening for me. Montclair, New Jersey on Thursday May 2nd at the Wellmont Center. Glenside, Pennsylvania in the Philadelphia area on Friday, May 3rd at the Keswick Theater. Washington, D.C. on Saturday, May 4th at the Warner Theater. Munhall, Pennsylvania outside Pittsburgh on May 9th at the Carnegie Library Music Hall. Cleveland, Ohio on May 10th at the Playhouse Square. Detroit, Michigan on May 11th at the Royal Oak Music Theater. You can go to WTFpod.com slash tour for all of my dates and links to tickets. Some of those future dates may be compromised because I may be doing a big thing.

I'll let you know when we announce it and when it's all set in stone. I might be doing a big thing, people. You know, I hammer away here at this show. I hammer away at my stand-up. I Hammer away at at at my life. I do a lot of jobs I wear a lot of hats There's some hats that I wear less and sometimes an opportunity comes along where they just want you to wear that hat And then you got a suit up Yeah, I mean I'll let you know I'll let you know don't freak out Don't freak out this Don't freak out.

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Visit BetterHelp.com slash WTF today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash WTF. Nothing provokes email like an ink spot on a shirt. I tell you, man, you know, people always send in emails, but the ink spot, that got a lot of feedback, and I got to be honest with you, everything you suggested to get the ink spot out of my shirt did not work. I Didn't try the hairspray, but I tried the isopropyl alcohol. I tried the the the spot stuff But maybe I think it might be too late for the hairspray, but thanks for all the input

But the most important input as of late after my rambling about cortisol and hypervigilance and my own trauma and and you know how my body has reacted to that somebody sent me a thoughtful email about his experience with that stuff with hypervigilance cortisol and exhaustion and you know and and and he brought up something interesting that I kind of thought of but not so clearly You know when you have trauma in your life You there's something that You're wired to seek it out. You're wired to seek out what you grew up with You're wired. That's where your emotional heart is in whatever chaos you grew up with whatever, you know

your emotional heart is in whatever chaos you grew up with, whatever, you know, boundary broken, selfish, abusive, whatever you grew up with, you will unconsciously seek because that's where you feel comfortable. You know, chaos, selfishness, embarrassment for me. And I always knew this and it's hard to work against that wiring. All you can do is try. But this guy brought it up to me in this email. He said that perhaps, you know, well he suggested conclusively that the reason I do comedy

is to recreate some of that vibe that I grew up with. And I never, I always knew, like I've done jokes on stage where I do a joke that works and then one that is uncomfortable. And I used to say, that's what I do folks. I bring and then one that is uncomfortable and I used to say that's what I do folks, I bring you in and I push you away, I bring you in and push you away. It's a little dynamic I call dad. So I was hip to it, but I never was hip to the other component, which is, you know, the high wire of being on stage. What you're risking

up there is not just acceptance, where you're asking these people to accept you, but it's also the potential for embarrassment is profound. And the potential for failure that leads to that embarrassment is profound. And the possibility of standing in embarrassment for God knows how long is real. It's a real possibility. And when I was growing up, this was the missing piece. My dad was erratic and a little bipolar and pretty self-involved.

And you never knew where he was gonna come from emotionally, whether he was gonna yell or not, not real capable of being grounded or being an example for anything other than insanity or aggravation and anger. But my mother on the other hand, who was also very self-involved and completely insulated in her eating disorder

was also very embarrassing. Like she would say embarrassing things, she would do embarrassing things when we were out, she always made me uncomfortable one way or the other on all levels. And then like that was the missing piece. I realized, holy fuck, maybe that is what I'm doing up there. And that maybe that's why I always say that I don't know that I set out to be an

entertainer. I set out to find a certain amount of personal truth and, and find my own space in the world and be seen and do it through funny. But, uh, but this, for some reason, this piece just fit and I'm quitting comedy. Kidding. I'm gonna keep doing it, but only with a new sensibility. Something happened in the Midwest last week where I was like, you know what? If this is the only place I'm capable of being my whole self

and somehow or another I have transcended my parental systems in terms of what was negative about them through years and years of being on stage, then ultimately the end of that equation is I've become my whole self. It just happens to mostly just be on stage, but for fuck's sake, I'm 60. I might as well fucking enjoy it. Oh my God. There was some sort of revelation out there in the Midwest in terms of freedom of mind, comfort, being grounded on stage.

I mean, I haven't been afraid to be up there in a long time, but it just was almost like I said to the audience, one of them, I said, you know, it's kind of tragic that the most intimate relationship I have is with you, a room full of 800 strangers in Minneapolis. It's a bizarre thing. I can't quite explain it, but I do think that that guy's assessment is probably true. And now I got to spread it out. Now I've got to get past the obstacles and fear and horrendous, my horrendous emotional stagnation that happened out of fear and try to come into myself in my personal life. Here you go, a challenge, something to work towards.

I'm only 60, maybe I'll get it before I die. I had given up on it, but maybe I'll get it before I die I had given up on it but maybe I can get it maybe I can fucking humble myself and figure out how to move through life with an open heart with people that I know as opposed to people that come in and out of my garage or people I meet in passing or audiences root Root for me, people, would ya? I can do it. I can do it. Did you know nearly 75% of people have subscriptions they've forgotten about?

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That's rocketmoney.com slash WTF. Stop wasting cash. Stop it. Stop it all. So look, this, uh, this conversation with Alex, I was, I was charmed. He's a bright guy and he's a funny guy. His show, Just For Us, was recorded for HBO during its Broadway run and now streaming on Macs. This is me and the young Alex Edelman. to flexible truck rentals, to technology solutions. At Enterprise Mobility, we help businesses find

the right mobility solutions, so they can find new opportunities. Because if your business is on the road, we want to make sure it's on the road to success. Enterprise Mobility, moving you moves the world. Addiction doesn't discriminate people. In Canada, for instance, we lose 20 people to drug overdose every single day. So if you're listening to this and you've experienced addiction, just know that you're not alone. CAMH is the Center for Addiction and Mental Health, and they're hard at work creating better treatments and interventions for anyone experiencing addiction. CAMH is revolutionizing our understanding of the brain and transforming patient care

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Help change mental health care forever. Donate at CAMH.CA slash WTF to help CAMH treat addiction and build hope. That's CAMH.ca slash WTF. I mean, what was I going to do? I couldn't interview without going to the show. You could, they could have, they would have sent you a link. You could have just. Oh, to the HBO thing?

No, Alex, I went to your show. I went to your show because that's part of my job. I'm sorry. It's alright. I'm glad you came. So, no, like I, uh, I don't know that I, um, entered, uh, with necessarily the right attitude. Okay. What was it?

Wait, what's the attitude you came in with? I had a concern all the way through. While you were on stage? Well, I had a bit of a headache problem last night, but besides that, I was concerned. I thought, maybe in a nice way, but also I thought, I wonder if Mark can see his fingerprints on this. Oh, really? I wondered if you could see this sort of like the

The influence of your where do you see it? You know look people love to compare Jewish comedians to each other Yeah, and in terms of thinking about what it means to be Jewish Yeah in terms of your interior life is pretty different than sort of being like Ashkenazis are like this and they do this, that and that. And so like, there aren't a ton of Jewish comedians who actually do that.

It's funny though, it's not, you know, even saying Ashkenazi is too specific. Yeah, that's right. Right? It's just Jews are like this. Jews are like this. They all talk like this and they do, and so like, you never, I mean, you allude to stuff like that, like when you're in the last special,

you talked about like the Israeli music playing and stuff before the thing, but it's like, but you, I don't know that there are a ton of comedians. Can you think of like five Jewish comedians who are like, I'm not challenging you to literally come up with the names, but if you think about any comedians who talk about what their Judaism means to them on stage, like I don't know there are a ton that do that.

I don't know, yeah, and for me, it's an evolving thing, especially in the climate we're living in lately on stage, because I continue adding to the conversation about my Jewishness and what Jewishness is. And I'm not as Jewy as you in any way. You wrote a book called Jerusalem Syndrome, I think you got good cred. Yeah, but that was not exploring the religion,

it's still exploring the identity, right? So I think in terms of comics talking about it, I don't think there's that many Jewish comics, period, anymore. I think that's probably true. And I think, but when you say exploring the religion, the identities opposed to religion, my identity is much more tied to the religion, I think,

in background than yours was. Right. But I'm still doing the thing of talking about my Jewish identity in a way that, you know, you've done for a bunch of specials. Sure. Well, no, I didn't see my fingerprints on anything, but like I used to do this bit about, I did it that day when we did the event,

whatever that was, what was that for? Variety. Yeah, yeah, yeah, the thing about that, I think that anti-depressants killed Jewish comedy in the 80s. Like, they all got better, you know? That's a good fucking joke. Yeah.

But, like, I grew up with a certain, with my identity was sort of tied to that. You know, and my Jewishness was, you know know conservative Jew, you know did the thing You know did the bar mitzvah, but the thing that I liked about your show And I didn't want to like your show because you know like I don't have a problem with you But maybe there's you know some sort of you know Maybe I see myself in you or I think that you're you're annoying in a way or but you know you covered that you seem to be able to sort of Be aware of what you assume other people are thinking, whether you're annoying

or neurotic or whatever. Look, I'm not the most, look, I came from an Orthodox Jewish background and then I decided to become a comedian for all everyone saying that comedy is Jewish. It's not as if I was raised in the most socially adroit environment. It took me a little while to pick up tact and pick up,

and not just always be in everyone's face all the time. There was a couple of guys that were Orthodox that didn't work on Saturdays. You know, Mark Schiff. Elon Gold. Well, he was later. There was another guy. Oh, what was that guy? Oh, Morris. Morris.

What was his first name? He was another guy like when I was coming up, that was older than me. Mark Schiff was like Se? Morris, Morris. What was his first name? He was another guy, like when I was coming up, that was older than me. Mark Schiff was like Seinfeld's generation. I'm reading his book now, actually. He came and gave me his book. Oh, did he? Yeah, he doesn't work on Shabbos, but yeah.

Look, I was annoying. I was like, and I still am a little annoying. I'm fucking annoying. I'm just like, I'm always there. I'm just like, my breath is too loud. I'm just like, I'm always there. I'm just like, my breath is too loud. I'm just like- A little sort of, you know, wanting a connection. I mean, yeah.

Like I've always, but also I always wanted to be a comedian. Yeah. And I was always a huge comedy fan. Yeah. And so there aren't a ton of ways to learn from a distance. But yeah, I was just too in everyone's lap a little bit when I started. Not anymore? Do you have your own lap now?

Well, I mean, like, I'm a little for, you know, the only sad part of the show for me is that it does kind of take you far away from everyone else. Like, I haven't, for the last, you know, five, six years, a lot of the shows that I've done have been away from everyone else. Like I haven't, for the last five, six years, a lot of the shows that I've done have been away from the comedy community. I do them in theaters, like Steppenwolf. Jewish community? Jewish community centers?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I do them in JCCs and on cruise ships that are co-shared. No, no, I do it, like not really. You haven't done any JCCs? Not, no JCCs, they're mostly like theaters with the population of a JCC coming to a place that might as well be the Meyers in Upper West Side JCC. But I don't really, I don't see comedians

as much as I used to. It's kind of a shame. So, but you know, also not the worst thing in the world, like you said, like I have my own lap right now, but like, yeah, I'm a little annoying and also I'm a comedy fan. So like that thing where you can just like pretend, where you can just like be chill.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like it's taken me, like when I am chill, I am faking it because I'm always like, cause the real me is like freaking out that I get to be in like same comedy club as like David Tell or you know. When I play the seller, every night I'm like, gee, it's like I'm fucking Make-A-Wish. Like I can't believe that I work out at the... Well, let's go back then.

So, is Dave Rath your manager? No, I haven't worked with Dave for like a year, but he was my first... He got you all the stuff, the breaks? No, I mean, he was a lovely man, but yeah, look, a lot of my stuff came from abroad, so my manager in the UK, Chris Lander. What's his company?

It was, he was at the company called Phil McIntyre, then he was independent for a little while, and then he's not really in the business anymore, but Adam Breaux was sort of where I made my bones, I guess. Yeah, but not as a comic, as a one-person show guy. I mean, to me, they're interchangeable. To interchangeable to me they're really like you do comedy. I've done both. I've done one person shows You know Jerusalem syndrome was a one-person show but not to push back on this mark But didn't you incubate a lot of the bits that go in your one-person shows and stand up comedy room

No, no, I know I can see what you were doing. I mean I understand the the format Yeah And then I understand that you you know, you want a through line. And I think I do that with my specials now in the form of some callbacks and some themes. Mm-hmm. I agree that there's not a huge difference, but you are given the option to, you know,

with a one-person show, to work in front of a crowd that's expecting that and to infuse some silences. Yeah. Some moments of sort of... Some tension. Yeah. You know, so, I mean, that's what it affords you. And on some level as a comic,

you know, what you're afforded through a one-person show is the... Full attention. Not necessary to be funny all the time. Yeah, but I do think it should, but it should be, though. No, no. Right? Like, you know, and you're, and look, your last special had some tension and, you know, and some pauses and some- I'm not taking shots at the format.

No, I don't think you are. I'm just saying that I always thought that those two, I'm not being disingenuous when I say I think the two are the same. I think standup can have silences and not need to be funny all the time and is really, I truly believe that the two things are extremely closely knit and really work

when you cross them over. Yeah, of course. And I think though that it gives you an opportunity to explore something more thoroughly. Oh, a thousand percent. And by the way, having good, like Dave Rath was really instrumental in terms of like pointing me towards places that I didn't know about that did,

like, that did have like comedy spaces that did have, like, Uncabaret. Like, Dave would point, like, Uncabaret is a good example of a place where like you can do comedy that has a little more thoughtfulness without it being sort of one man show. I like the blurry boundary place. Sure, sure, sure.

So you just went with other management ultimately? I never, I haven't, I don't have another manager. No, you just have an agent. I just have, I just have an agent. Yeah. I just know math my whole life. He's an amazing, he like, he's my, he's like my, for a decade, he's the only manager I ever worked with.

Yeah. Yeah. But, but your intention after a certain point was not club comedy really I mean, I still love club comedy is still gonna I also think my solo shows come out of club comedy Yeah, yeah the jokes. Yeah. Yeah, I mean I could see the bits that were bits and I could see how you could really Mostly work all of that shit out in the club really Yeah, they were all they were all even the story at the center was you know Like a 20-minute bit at the end of a club show

for a while. Yeah, I figured that. It seemed like it was, because you had to sort of pare that down, figure out the beats. I love club. I mean, I think I'm always gonna be, hopefully always get to be a club comedian.

I'm going back on the road in a couple of weeks. Just a headline outside? Just a headline, like Bloomington, I'll do the comedy ad, I'll do the comedy thing in Providence, I'm doing an hour at Netflix as a joke festival, it's just gonna be comedy. I love being in a club comic too,

all of my, it's all I ever wanted to be. So where did you grow up in the Boston area? Brookline. Like up from, I used to live in Brookline. Yeah, I live up on you know, the reservoir and yeah I'm yeah, like right near the near the Jewish day near the Jewish day school that I went to but like yeah near Cleveland Circle. Yeah. Yeah. I mean I worked in I worked in Coolidge Corner and I was all my childhood You're the movie theater. Sure. Yeah, I worked at a place called Edibles that was owned by a couple of Jewish hippies.

You're kidding. No, and then I worked at Matt Garrett's for as a waiter. Oh my god. My girlfriend worked in college, worked at the Coolidge Corner Theater. That's where I saw my movies growing up, across the street from Brookline Booksmith, which is where you buy them. Yeah, the Booksmith. Yup, yup.

It's still there. It's great. And then there's that weird kosher deli down the street, Ruben's. Ruben's. Rub Rubens is closed now Which is horrible, but it was the only kosher game in town for a while Did you I bet you don't remember this because you're too young But I used to work at like one of the last sort of culturally Jewish delis in the Boston area, which was Gordon's My grandfather would talk about Gordon's

It would come on my grandfather would be like, you know, you't know, but Rubens can't hold a candle to Gordon's. It's true, because Gordon's was not kosher. Yeah. It was just, you know, it was Jewish. People would come in, kosher Jews would come in and sort of wistfully buy products that were kosher in spit like pickles and stuff like that. Sure, pickles and all the breads.

There's a thing about, like I had to learn, cause I did that, I don't know, I was in college and it was crazy dude. Cause you went to BU. Yeah, it was at Pottingham Circle in West Roxbury. Yeah, of course. Next to the Chinese restaurant. I know exactly, there's a firehouse nearby

where we would burn our bread before Passover. Really? Yeah, like our chameit's like the, you're not allowed to have bread on Passover. So they'd make that service available to you? Yeah, you'd chameit's like the, you're not allowed to have bread on Passover. So they make that service available to you? Yeah, you go to the parking lot of the firehouse in West Randolph and you'd burn your bread in a barrel next to the firehouse with the firefighters,

watch these Jews. Is that true? With crossed arms, just watch us throw bread into a fiery barrel, it was insane. And like many Jews were there in the parking lot? Dozens, dozens of Jews trying hard in the parking lot? Dozens. Dozens of Jews trying hard not to get smoke in their face, using the yarmulkes to wave the smoke away.

Oh my God. Yeah, the guys that used to come into Gordon's, your grandfather was probably one of them. I learned some weird lessons about Jews, like, because I had a very idealized idea of what Jews were. And then all these Jews who were probably your grandfather's age, you know, some of them were, you know, cops, some of them were plumbers. There was a mailman, you know, and I was sort of like, Jews do these jobs? Yeah, of course. Yeah. But for some reason, there was a contractor, like a mob contractor that used to come in, like a guy that did the business? That makes sense. There was a guy that one of the,

my parents told me about a guy named Doc Sagancki, who was a Jewish mobster who was like, who was like a little Jewish man who, who was almost a billionaire from being, from like running numbers or something. It was an insane philanthropist who just like lived in a one bedroom apartment. Yeah.

And like lived a Jew-y life and like, yeah, there were Jewish mobsters in Boston. Well of course they started the mob. I mean, the mob is half Jewish. Of course. But these guys would come in right from the fucking hospital, you know, with IV band-aids on, you know, after they got their blood work done and eat a corned beef sandwich. Oh my God. It was crazy. And there's stuff in Boston that you can't get anywhere else, like grapepe Nut Pudding. Yes. Right? Oh my God. Yeah.

Holy shit. This is, by the way, this is my grandparents' language, Grape Nut Pudding. Yeah. You know, the Boston thing that I love are the old fashioned ice cream parlors. Yep. Those things are kind of gone.

Yeah. But like, there were these places that like White Mountain Creamery or even the Friendlies that looked like Friendlies. The original Steves? Yes. In Som Steves? Yes. In Summerville? I thought that was in Newton,

but I remember all of these, those hyper-local places, man. Boston was so blessed. E. Macomboleos? Yeah, well, E. Macomboleos became a chain. I know, but it wasn't. It was like a really shitty little place right off the sea line.

And you'd go- On Beacon, right? Yes, on Beacon Street, right? Sea line on Beacon Street, and you would go in, and now you see him everywhere And it's kind of a are they everywhere there there used to be a chain Yeah, I think they kind of crapped out

But the original Steve's was kind of a thing in Somerville because he invented the mixin no way yes That was the thing he was the first guy to put it on the slab pound in the shit Put it in the fucking bowl cold mountain creamery took Steve's I totally Yes, and then Steve's idea. Totally! Yes, and then Steve's became Harrell's. Oh my god, Harrell's is the greatest. But that's Steve Harrell. That's from the original Steve's in Somerville, and then he sold out.

So Harrell's is in Newton. So there's the Steve's, it's right near the highway. Right, well Steve's went away and then it became Haralds because I think that's how we franchised it. But all this aside, the Jewish thing in Boston was different to me because I grew up identifying with the New York thing and it's different. There's like four fucking kinds of rye bread in Boston. Yeah, of course.

Sizzle rye, light rye, pumpernickel and dark, four. And then guys would come in, order the heel of the bread. What the fuck is that? Do you even know what that is? My grandfather liked the heel of the bread. Right! We hated it. I hated it, but he would eat the heel of the bread. By the way, we would save the bags, or we'd not save the bags, but it would be like, it would be, you'd have five bags with the little nubs at the end.

My grandfather would eat them like... Yeah, yeah. Well, they'd have you cut it. Like, if someone ordered the heel with cream cheese or something, you had to cut it off so it's like three inches and slice it the other way. That's right. I remember the first time someone ordered it, I just pulled a bunch of little pieces out of a bag,

threw it on a plate. No, no, no. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, it was something, man. It was something. That was a. It was a good place to start comedy Boston, by the way. Well, I mean, but tell me about like,

well, I know I started there, I think legitimately. It was hard to start there, but it was different. To be for me, cause you're kind of a overly, I don't wanna say obsequious, but a very charming performer. Pandering and solicitous, I prefer. Yeah, those are better. But I was just this fucking young, angry, sweaty Jewish guy

who was half high all the time, running around to one-nighters in the New England area. But that's how everybody, that's the only way to do it. You would go to the Mike of the Burren, you would go to the Mike of the Connection, you'd go to the various Dictority Terminators. Yeah, but I would drive out, there was a whole one-nighter network

where I learned how to do time. You'd go to Pancho Villa's in Leamingster and you'd go to the Taunton Regency to do their weekend show. Tony Vee and Frank Santarelli and Steve Sweeney and all these, and Lenny Clark and Don Gavin. They all would take me, you know, I was in high school. I was a senior in high school.

And you'd do open form? Yeah, I was terrible. And they would still, they'd drive me out to Randolph. Take the hit. And yeah, they'd drive me out to Randolph. Take the hit. And yeah, they'd give me, Steve Sweeney gave me a hundred bucks, a hundred dollar bill. And I remember I could not believe I was getting that much money for a show in like somewhere on the Cape.

Yeah. It was awesome. And you'd drive out with these guys and they'd have great stories. They were always really nice to me. Yes, oh, that's good. Not everyone's act was fantastic. No, it was what it was. It was fantastic.

Yeah, but that's, yeah, the car rides were always, did you have to drive? Sometimes, but I was, my heart was in my throat because I had just gotten my permit and I was like, I was like, fuck, I really hope I don't get pulled over. But I think the most interesting thing to me about the show, I thought that the conceit of the white supremacist meeting was more of, more in the show.

You know, it was just someplace where you landed. You know, to sort of set up other things which were obviously, you know, structured bits. But I thought it was gonna be like the whole show, but it's really just a place to come back to. Yeah, I think that's true. I think the show is a long, like so many solo shows, like just a long explanation of me.

It requires a lot of explanation. But now, so it's just you and your brother? Two brothers. One's not really in the show. Not really in the show. Why is that? It just didn't shake out that way. There was not a ton of room for him.

You're the youngest? I'm the oldest. And there's the- The Olympians, two years younger than me. AJ is a Israeli Olympian, and then Austin is eight years younger than me eight years younger than yeah Yeah, so he's still a kid now almost 26 years old. I think I met him. Who did I meet? Yeah, you met Austin We had Austin he's nice kid. Yeah, but but it didn't have as good a backstory as the Olympiad for the show No, he did. Well, he was he's just not he he's just not in this, yeah, he's not in this one.

There's only one bit about my brother, or two bits actually, but Austin wasn't born yet when we had the Christmas bit, so the story about having Christmas. But walk me through this because, again, what I thought was most interesting was the specifics about Jewish education, about a religious education, in terms of how it informs one's Jewish identity. Because I can only speak to, in generalizations, I

used to do a bit about the difference between a Jew's relationship with their God and a Christian's relationship with their God. The Jews you know, the Jews are arguing. They're like, what? You want me to do that? And then the Christians are just like, I'm sorry. So I have a bit about the Jewish relationship that their relationship is Jesus take the wheel. Like this woman lets her hands go in the song and Jesus takes the wheel. And I go, and Jesus does take the wheel and he drives her and that baby to safety. And that is not how it works for the Jews That's right. Yeah, there was it was more contentious. It was unpredictable. Oh, sorry

But yeah, but your education thing. Sorry, but so you're Orthodox. Yeah, I was raised or I was raised or that I still consider myself like modern Orthodox even though I'm not as like Shabbos observant as Mark Schiff or kosher observant Well, what is that?, modern orthodoxy? You don't wear a kippah usually, sometimes you do. No, yeah, sometimes I wear a kippah. Where would you decide to wear a kippah? I like to wear it in my home life and with my friends sometimes. I don't like wearing it in non-Kosher restaurants.

I like, honestly, I like wearing it in environments where people, where it's not the first thing people will see and be like... Do you have to wear it at home? Honestly, I like wearing it in environments where people, where it's not the first thing people will see and be like, uh. Do you have to wear it at home? I don't have to, but I wear it sometimes. I'm at home in Boston, I do try to wear it, yeah. Like I, I honestly. Your dad always wears it?

Always. When you met him, he wore it. Yeah. Like he's, he is, uh, frankly, if I'm being completely honest, I kinda wish I had never stopped wearing it, but I think it would. Why? What would, what's the conflict there? I mean, why, had never stopped wearing it, but I think it would. Why, what's the conflict there?

I mean, if you're completely honest, what is it that you think you're doing by not wearing it? You know, I just didn't want to, when I was a kid, I didn't want anything else to alienate me from people, given that I was already such an alienating, already felt so alienated from everyone I met. Who wasn't Jewish? Even Jews, you know, I was raised very specific Judaism. Like you said, Boston Judaism is

a very- Orthodox. Yeah, Boston, but Orthodox, modern Orthodox, real distinction. It's like no one I grew up with wore like black suits with white shirts and hats. Well, that's pathetic isn't that ultra-Orthodox? Yeah, but there is a little more, there are like literally 10 to 15 gradations of orthodox. In Muncie, Lawrence, out on Long Island,

there are so many different kinds of orthodox Jews. And so I just, sorry, what I mean when I say is, I wish I'd never stopped wearing the yarmulke, it's like, you know, if I start wearing it now, it'd be some sort of like statement of reclamation. I don't really feel like there's, you know, a thing to reclaim. It's just like, I feel pretty comfortable

in my everyday life, you know, as a Jewish person. But like, I've always been slightly resistant of the label of like, Jew-y comedian in a way that I'm like, not totally. Cause like, you don't wanna, like, I'm a comedian that I truly think is accessible to anyone, but like, I, and I think that desire to be accessible to anyone has led to me pushing down certain parts of my Jewish personality, which is, to me,

what the show is about. The show to me is a lot more about assimilation than it is about antisemitism. No, absolutely, and I think the show is about. The show to me is a lot more about assimilation than it is about anti-Semitism. No, absolutely. And I think the show is you reclaiming your Jewishness as a comic that you avoided doing in Taunton or on the Cape.

Sure, you're right. And I dealt with the same thing. I didn't talk about being Jewish for years because I didn't want it to be a stereotype. And when your heroes are like Richard Lewis know, Richard Lewis or Lenny Bruce or Buddy Hackett or Don Rickles, where it was just understood. I mean, that group of Jews who kind of built modern standup, they, outside of Lenny Bruce, were not...

And Lenny Bruce was specifically Jewish. Sure. But a lot of the other ones weren't. They, you just knew they were Jews and they'd refer to it occasionally. But like he was still speaking in Yiddish sometimes. But even like, you know, I wonder sometimes is my Jewish identity interesting

to anyone who's not Jewish? But now it's like, before, in the 70s, it was known. It was accepted, the comics are Jews. And now that identity, it used to be a cultural identity that was prominent because most of it was coming out of New York and it was, and even in all the arts, it was just culturally prominent. And now it's culturally prominent for bad reasons,

and also it's not as prominent. True, you're right. You're a thousand percent right. Never heard anyone say it, but the comics, there aren't a ton of Jewish comedians anymore. The trope of- That identify. It's kind of, it makes me a little bit sad.

There are some really good- But not scared. What? Does it make you scared? I'm always, I'm weirdly like an anti-Semitism minimalist. Yeah. In the sense that I never feel like, because I'm always so embarrassed when anyone's like,

there's a swastika in the New York Times crossword puzzle. I'm like, there's not a swastika, shut up. What about a swastika on a grave? Yeah, that's harder to deny. It feels like there's more of that now. Like it really feels like it's just more in my face and I've always wanted to deny it and it seems every day or every passing month,

it seems much harder to deny. So like a little bit, I'd be lying if I said, I wasn't a little bit scared in a way that I absolutely wasn't a year and a half, two years ago. Like now, you know, the venues have like security for me. And like occasionally someone sends me an Instagram message that I'm like, ah, should I forward this to someone? You know, like it's-

Have you? No, but there was one time, right after October 7th, I got a couple of comments on my Instagram page and I just shut off the comments. Not even that I was wading into the Israel-Palestine stuff. I'm like, I'm obsessed with listening to it and thinking about it, but I'm not really, I'm not really sure where I stand yet,

so I've not said much, but yet, some people left some comments where I was like, shit. One guy was like, I'm gonna come to San Francisco on October 28th and behead you in front of your Zionist buddies, and I was like, well, the show's end on the 27th. You know, like, I'm not sticking around for the band. Unless we plan a lunch meet. Yeah.

You want to meet my cousins? They are Zionists. It's OK. Here's their address in Israel. Yeah. No, I mean, I'm handling it much in the same way you are in that I kind of play out the options of position. I say, here are the three positions.

You know, I'm a Zionist, I'm a free Palestine Jew, or I just wanted all to stop. And you know, if you do the, I just wanted all to stop, that's when people are like, what the fuck are you even talking about? Yeah, of course. So I leave it open like that. But then I did actually write a joke with,

because I didn't want to speak to it as somebody as an intellect or as a pundit So I had to write a joke, you know addressing it that does have a point of view But but but this is interesting because I think about it a lot too, and I'm not even as Jewish you I mean You are a guy that you know had a God in place. Yeah. I mean like I was I was fully I I'm not sure if I if I I mean like I think I believe in God. I just, like, I was fully, I'm not sure if I, I mean, like, I think I believe in God. I just have, like, notes. I'm just, like, annoyed. I've got, like, stuff. Sure, but that's what the entire Talmud is, right?

Yeah. I mean, essentially, more than anything, I don't, not sure I believe in God, but I definitely believe in the Torah. Like, not the literal thing, but I believe that, like, there's something good and interesting about the Jewish worldview that like, carefully examines all sides of a discourse. Yes. Like that to me always really works for me. I like to hear everyone's like point of view

and hold opinions strongly, but loosely at the same time. And like, I like trying to square impossible, you know, contradictory things with each other and see if they can coexist at the same time. Like that thing really works for me. Like that's a thing that I found that like. And you find that's directly relative to your Talmud schooling? Sure.

I mean, that's what the Talmud is. It gives you hear everyone's opinion. You can sometimes they pick a side, but most often they go everyone's opinion comes from a pretty honest place and like I think that there's some relevance to that in the world right now you know I think there's relevance to like carefully trying to take in everyone's like frustrations and pain and wants and you know the facts that people have chosen to put a lot of weight into from various sides and trying to figure out a thing that works for everyone. It's like, it can come out as a pretty random centrism,

but like, it's kind of what works for me. Like, I mean, the show is sort of about empathy and the limits of empathy, and that's definitely from my Judaism. Conditional. Conditional empathy. Conditional empathy, yeah. Well, yeah, no, I think that that was interesting where you had to deal with, you know,

what is your Jewishness and what is just you as a needy person. That the instinct to empathy can be a couple of things, you know, in terms of a guy with a personality like yours or the one I used to have when I'm not, you know, tamping it down is that I think your need to be liked will force you into an adjustment with almost anybody. Sure, but do you think that sometimes that need to be liked and that need to not be invisible

are at odds with each other? Right? Like, I know that sometimes the thing to do to be liked is to completely disappear in a room. And my need to- But disappear how? Like wall, talk, you go into- Yeah, like become furniture essentially

and just like listen and- Yeah, I rarely had that thing. Really, I think in a room, especially with younger people in urban environments, strong personalities, taking up less space. Taking up less space is literally the thing to do, but my desire to be liked and my desire to also be... a presence, those things sometimes are at odds

with each other, and so that's a really... Well, but are they? Because it seems that, you know, if you have an innate desire to connect in an almost, you know, you have a innate desire to to connect in an almost you know codependent way that you're you're making your you're sacrificing part of yourself like that you're diminishing you're becoming invisible in a different way because you're just volunteering to be an extension of whatever sure you're becoming a chameleon but but like but but that's what i'm saying. I'm saying that the desire to become a chameleon and like it can be dehumanizing, not just dehumanizing,

but it can be a, like if you walk into a room and go, all right, I'm gonna give everybody $20 and then they'll like me. You know, like you can give everyone $20, but it's still not enough to, it's not enough to feel like seen, I guess. No, you're just a guy that gave him $20. Yeah, half of those people were like what the fuck's with this it a thousand percent thousand percent, but I'm saying like the the way to

And sometimes but sometimes that is what's necessary, but in order to actually like I feel that I Don't want to just be liked I want to be seen yeah I think exactly the same way I mean I don, I think that's why I started doing comedy, was to find my own territory. I love that because I think that's one of the things that I admired about comedians, is that you get to go up there and explain yourself,

and people enjoy it and they laugh at it and come away with a greater understanding of a person and maybe people writ large like that seems Like a really and it seems like a really fun job I think the thing that made me want to think it was a noble job I think it's still and I think it's a noble job, you know that this is my point of view You know this and in the only the only context, you know was that you had to be funny That was the only rule but outside but outside of that he do whatever the fuck you want But don't you think that the thing that made me want to be like I interrupted. Yeah, go ahead

No, no, no, but mark That's the same but like it's very the same thing like the thing that want me to be a commute made me want to be Comedian was that right that you can express yourself in a certain way and also everyone hanging out I saw the aristocrats of the Coolidge Corner theater. Yeah, Whenever it was in theaters, it must have been... I gotta tell you, I had never knew anything about that joke ever in my life before that movie. Me neither. Obviously, I was a child. But I was so old. But like, more than anything else, that joke,

the joke is fine, but the community of people, the premise of the movie is comedians sit around with each other and they tell each other this joke. What a great joke. And I was like, wait, comedians sit around with each other? Sure. each other this joke What a great joke and I was like wait comedians sit around with each other sure like that's the thing that I wanted I wanted to sit at tables with funny people and and and Be in that sort of it's a special club of awkward people and social rejects and borderline criminals

I always love I mean look everything you want in a table. That's really interesting Yeah, yeah, yeah, but eventually, But eventually, you sit at the table long enough and you get to the point where you're like, here we go. Yeah, I think that's true though. I think it's kind of, I think it's sad. I think I, I think it's sad. Well, you get, you come out the other side, you get older and then you find yourself doing it again.

But tell me about your Shiva education. So you're, cause like, now, and also I was talking to somebody yesterday about, you know, I still think that that kind of middle-class conservative jewelry is the dominant, right? At least in this country. That the number of Orthodox or ultra Orthodox is still-

Like 10% is the last. Right, oh, yeah, you'd think that's about it. I think so, I think it's like small, yeah. Because I still think for most Jews, when they see a Jew wearing a kippah, they're like, there's a good one, I guess. So what do we, you know, like, there's a dual kind of reaction.

Well, here's my question, how big, sorry, you're going somewhere and I'm like. Right, well, where I was going was that, you know, the kippah and the traditions are the constant reminder of your relationship with God and Jewishness, right? So, and if you do those things, you are a practicing Jew, but it seems to me that the Jewish education, and this is what came through in the show, was that there were principles and ethics and ideas that kind of defined your humanity, right?

I mean, you speak of it. That the idea of putting a premium not only on education, which you didn't really cover, but empathy. I don't know if I ever framed that as a Jewish thing, per se. No, but there is a... I think that Jewish laws aim for the intersection of empathy and fairness, right? Like empathy and accountability. Ethics and humility and humanity. But you're right, those are human values as opposed to a Jewish one. That's why...

No, but they're not necessarily taught. You were taught them. I was taught that your actions were informed by a spiritual backbone that you had to act in the way that you possibly, in the best way that you possibly could. But it's a very, yeah, I don't know if it's specifically my Jewish education, but yeah, I think it was. I think the I think it was. I think the radical empathy part is the sort of Jewish bit. Right, but even that in the show comes up against exclusionary ideas. The idea that the reason why your mother did Christmas one year was in service of somebody in pain who was not Jewish, who was a friend, and she thought it would be the right thing to do

because of that woman's situation. Yet the rabbi, when it got back to him, reframed it in a biblical way and saw no lenience. Well, it's not that he saw no lenience. I tried to make his perspective worthwhile also, but I think his perspective was you've confused your kids You've introduced Christmas and now are you gonna take it away from them next year? You're gonna take Christmas away Are you gonna let them keep celebrating it and also, you know, by the way, sometimes Jews come to the show It's rare. Yeah, but it happens Jews come to the show and they tell me, you know

Your father was right and your mother was wrong. Like, you don't have Christmas in a Jewish home. Period. Well, you know, Jews used to get killed on Christian holidays. Easter was a bad one. Yeah. Halloween was a bad one.

You know, and Christmas was particularly not a good holiday for Jews because Jews were oftentimes accused of killing Jesus. So there is a history of pain in Orthodox Jewish communities or for any community where Judaism is the animating force where some people have a real animus towards Christmas and they really are frustrated by, the funny thing is I think that environment of loving,

of doing Christmas for a family is actually weirdly an American one. Like, because, and maybe it's slightly idealized, but my grandfather's, the one who reminded me of Gordon's who lived in Boston, my grandfather lived next door to this family called the Rockets, and they were Boston College, Irish Catholics, crosses on the walls, you know,

everything, everything, everything. And on, you know, on holidays that like, my grandfather would like, you know, help Dr. Rockett put up his Christmas tree, and Dr. Rockett would help my grandfather put up his Sukkah, you know, the hut the Jews sit in. And I'm like, and there was a moment, I think, I don't know when it was, maybe 60s, 70s, 80s,

where Americans who live next door to each other with different faiths and backgrounds would help each other out if they could. And Boston is actually pretty diverse. And so, there are black people on our block and Christian people on our block and Muslim people on our block. In Boston, the black people are on your block? In Brookline, yeah. All right. Well, the houses were are on your block? In Brookline, yeah. All right.

Well, the houses were like, it was a working class neighborhood. Oh, okay. I've never been in a more segregated city in my life. Boston? Yeah. I think downtown, I mean, I think it's gotten worse. I think it used to be. Well, I mean, when I was there, it was like, Mattapan was black, Roxbury was black, Dorchester

and Southy were Irish. And then, you know, the bulk of the city was a bit confusing. It seemed very provincial and college driven, but you definitely got the sense that the surrounding areas had very specific ethnic code. A lot of those places were changed. A lot of those places, like it used to be Beacon Hill, which is now the waspiest place.

And it was a Black neighborhood, started as a Black neighborhood, Beacon Hill. And it was a neighborhood mostly for the descendants of escaped slaves. It was like true. Is that true? Oh yeah. And there are still, and Beacon Hill is rabbit-worn

with alleys because it used to be, Yeah, it was just there. It used to be if you, people were allowed to go back to the north to try to track down their escaped slaves. And in some of these alleys, they have bells up on the wall. Yeah. And people would run into the alley and they'd ring the bell if they were trying to run from someone.

Yeah. And everyone would flood into the alley. And so like those, and there's a history, there's like an African American Beacon Hill History Museum there. It's at the end of one of these alleys, these gorgeous alleys. Now it's probably some of the most expensive real estate in the world, and it's exclusively where the John Kerry types live, but it used to be a black neighborhood in Brookline. North Brookline was a whole different thing, and a couple of North Brookline kids who were

African American played college basketball at a high level. Brookline High was a pretty segregated place. Or sorry, a pretty segregated place. Oh, sorry, pretty integrated place, yeah. So when do you start to move away from Orthodox? We really just like, I hadn't even left high school. I got a job at the Red Sox. I got a job working for the baseball team.

I wrote the kids' newsletter and shit like that. And because I didn't want to be just like the orthos, kids stopped wearing the yarmulke as much around the ballpark and started going to work on Saturdays. But I think it was college is where I sort of like. Where'd you go to school? I went to NYU, but I still consider myself pretty, still consider myself like Judaism's still a bit of an animating

force. I like to have Shabbos when I can. I keep a modicum of kosher. I don't eat pork or shellfish. It's like, I've never considered myself as like a lapsed, a modern Orthodox guy, but I clearly am when you compare me to like Elon or Mark Schiff or one of those guys. Pete Slauson Well, you know, you address that in the show, that when Christians are sort of like, yeah, I'm out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then Jews is like, you can't get out. Yeah, you can't ever leave.

It's the fucking hotel California. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can never go, but the other thing is to some people, you're like the most Jewish person they, right? I was thinking about it when I said the joke last night, like there's some people for whom Mark Maron is like the most Jewish thing you can possibly get to. I guess only because I talk about it in a certain way,

but you're much more Jewish than me. And even by the, in the sense of this show, I mean, it's so clearly a Jewish show. Yeah. And, you know, when I saw the audience, I'm like, well, this is interesting because you've obviously been, you've got the blessing of Orthodox contingent because they're there.

And then you've got regular kind of middle-class conservatives and reform Jews though, that there's a spectrum of Jew that is gonna take this in because it's either nostalgic or it's, but I think that there is a conversation you're trying to have with the show about Jews and it's sort of the anti-Semitism part is really, it's not what the show's about because at the end of it,

there's no great victory and ultimately, there's no real threat either. No, no, no, they're very banal. Right, which is interesting, because on a day-to-day basis, as a guy who's not Orthodox, I feel the threat of antisemitism in a profound way. I mean, I feel it too. I feel there are different types of antisemitism.

By the way, only like 30 to- Different types of antisemitism. So there's Orthodox, antisemitism, conservative antisemitism. I mean way, only like- Is there a different type of, so there's Orthodox, anti-Semitism, conservative anti-Semitism? I mean, there's anti-Semitism that goes, we wanna wipe out the Jews. And then there's anti-Semitism that goes, we wanna wipe out Judaism. So you're allowed to be Jewish as long as it doesn't like actually mean anything. You're allowed to be Jewish like in name only, as long as you've got no affinity for Judaism, as long as like, it's just not in our face. Right? As long as like, you know, all the people who are like-

Quiet down, Jew. Exactly. As long as it's like the same, not the same, cause I don't know the, but it's like when people say- But America was like that. Yeah. I mean, there's all those, the conversations of Jews in the twenties and thirties that we're just trying to pass.

A thousand percent. The amount, you know, the funny thing is everyone goes, my grandfather changed my name, changed our name at Ellis pass. A thousand percent. The amount, you know the funny thing is everyone goes, my grandfather changed my name, changed our name at Ellis Island. That never happened. Like you couldn't change your name at Ellis Island. It's be like changing your name at LaGuardia. Like it doesn't work that way.

It was like there were customs, but people had to apply to change their names. And everyone who, there's a good book about it called The Rosenberg by any other name. It was a fucking funny title. But like everyone had to apply to change their name in New York City whenever they got here. And it was like a long, months long process.

And the people, the number one reason for changing your name was anti-Semitism. And the number two reason for changing your name was non-Jews who had names that sounded too Jewish and they were experiencing anti-Semitism. Really? Yeah, so no one ever changed. So like, but you're right, Jews desperately wanted to pass. that sounded too Jewish and they were experiencing anti-Semitism. Like, you know, the... Right, right. It happened. The guy made a decision. Yeah, someone made a decision. But that's not true. No, it's not true.

It's a myth. You had to exactly match the ship's manifest for national security reasons. Otherwise, they would send you back at the cost of, at the expense of the shipping company. Yeah. So no one ever... So everything was very much dotted and crossed when you got to Ellis Island. Well, the opening theme of your show is wanting to pass, really. I desperately did, yeah.

I really wanted to. I still kind of want to. It's like... But you do, you can... A little bit, you know, like, Marc... Maybe not. 40% of our audience, 60% of our audience is non-Jewish, but the highly visible portion of the audience is Jewish.

Right, right? For the show. For the show. For the show. And, you know, I worry sometimes I go, Oh, God, is anyone going to be, of course, people are interested in it, you know, in the sense that they're comedy fans, people who love comedy like the show a lot. And it's, but I do worry sometimes, Oh, my God, is this going to be too Jewish for someone who reads an article about it or listens to a podcast about it, gonna be like, well, that sounds funny,

but it sounds like it's for Jews. Well, then you'd name the show Just For Us, right? Is that what it is? Well, the show is called Just For Us for that kind of reason. No, I know that, but it turns out in the show that that's not really about Jews. No, it's some... But if you're just reading the listings,

the Alex Edelman Jewish comic does it just for us, I'm like, well, all right, I'm not gonna go. Well, the show, no, it's supposed to be a vague title. It's supposed to be vague. I always believed the titles should be a little bit vaguer. The bet should be more thematic. No, I get it, but it could be misinterpreted as like, is it for Jews?

Yeah, but everyone's the us, right? Like the us in that is Jews and white people and you know, yeah, of course. From where you're sitting, but on paper. Shit, I should have called it, it's for Alex Edelman, for everybody! Exclamation point, exclamation point. Exactly, yeah, yeah, there is no us. But alright, so when do you start doing comedy in college? I started doing comedy in high school. I went to a mechanical school. I started doing open

mics in Boston. I was terrible. When you were in high school? Was that, well, I wasn't in Jewish high school, was it? It was Jewish high school. So the Yeshiva went all the way from like second grade to high school? It was no one from kindergarten through graduation. It was like fully a Yeshiva high school called Maimonides. But I'd rollerblade down to this musical, but might get a pizza place called Rogues in Cleveland Circle.

Yeah. And you know, I'd get up there and I'd do the connection with Kevin Knox and stuff like that. But I was- Kevin Knoxy, oh yeah. I mean, it was great. And then I got to Israel and someone had opened up a comedy club in Jerusalem.

What do you mean you got to Israel? I went to rabbinical school for a year. Like a lot of course I got to choose to do. After high school. What was that like? Crazy. Like the craziest place, you're learning to be an adult

because there's such a rest of development. You're not even close to being one, but I did like, I did all this, I'm like, everyone's drinking for the first time, everyone's, you know, sort of independent, away from home for the first time. So you were that insulated? You know what I mean?

I was insulated, yeah. But you knew enough that you wanted to do comedy in high school, but like, your parents, I mean, was there like arranged marriages and whatnot? No, but my parents, but like most people married someone who went to the same five schools that they went to. So it's not arranged at all, but like... But you were vaccinated and whatnot?

Oh, of course, but you know, it's one of those things where like I said to my parents a couple years ago, I go, can I get my vaccination records for like, you know, like, and they were like, oh yeah, they, I was like, well, was I vaccinated? Did I get like, the guard is still vaccine? Did I get all of this? My parents like, call the doctor.

And like, it was one of those, no one ever gave me a sex talk. How's that? I had like a health class in high school, but it was like two sessions and the teacher, everyone laughed at it. One kid during a sex ed class, very confidently leaned back and went,

when are we gonna need this? You know, like it was just a really, like it was Cal. Like algebra, yeah. But it was, Israel was crazy and there were, it was also a bad year for violence that year and there was a massacre at one of the schools near me, a place called Merikas Harav

and so people were, it was pretty dicey. And so then, but then I got to college and started lingering around the Comedy Cellar. I was obsessed with it, but I didn't really take it seriously until like, until I went to England. Well, I mean, so you said there was a comedy club in Israel? Yeah, a place called Off the Wall. I'm sure, joke I'm sure you get.

But it was, it was Off the Wall Comedy Club and it opened like two months after I got there. It was like perfectly timed. And I was like 18 and immediately like one of the five or six comedians in the city. And even though it was horrific, it was still like enough to get me on stage. Wait, what you got like 10, 15 minutes?

Yeah, you get 10, 15 minutes. One time they let me do 40, which was all of my material, you know, from the scraps in the back of your notebooks to whatever But yeah, I was I didn't take it seriously till after college that and I really got then I really kind of what was it? What is the idea of going to rabbinical school for a year? They give you the opportunity to decide whether or not you want to make Judaism your life as a profession Just to be able to go. Hey, listen, this is the last time you're gonna be able to study Just to be able to go, hey, listen, this is the last time you're gonna be able to study

this like Torah and Talmud for the sake of just doing that. So you should just do that. Take this time to just go, there are no grades. It's just like a growth experience. Did you do the studying? Yeah, I, you know, I felt kind of out of love with it there in the sense that there wasn't enough original thought for me, like I was like, well, what if...

I had some good teachers, but I also had some ones that were just like, just shut up and learn. Yeah. Instead of like wanting to always talk about, like, trying to relate this to the modern world or trying to figure out a new angle on something. I was obsessed with ideas. Did you feel at home in Israel?

Yeah, I really did. I feel really weird about saying that. But yeah, I feel at home. It's the first place I've ever been where everyone's... Like, when I was in Boston, I sort of fell into non-Jewish environments in terms of like exploring places like comedy, sports. And then, or you go to a reading at the Kennedy Library or something, something you're interested in, like a history thing. Like, you go to see like... Pete Slauson And your dad taught at Harvard? Jared Slauson My dad taught, my dad teaches at Harvard Medical School and MIT.

Pete Slauson Yeah. Jared Slauson And so, you go to these places, you wear a yarmulke and you're standing out. And people look at you and they shake your hand and their eyes sort of flick to your head and then come back. And that never happens in Israel. So you walk around and everyone's like, and there are a lot of, there's like a lot of brown people wearing yarmulkes, not just the same sort of Ashkenazi folks that you're used to seeing. So it did feel at home in Israel. Also, people are arguing all

the arguments that we have here about Israel and Judaism and whether or not it should exist or what that should look like. They have those there 10 times. So like, it just feels very familiar. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I did feel at home in Israel. I really, I felt at home in Jerusalem and now when I go to Jerusalem, I feel a bit less, I guess I have become a little less religious because now I feel really at home in Tel Aviv.

Yeah. Where it's like a lot more secular and a lot more, you know, people much more, less attached to certain stuff. But yeah, I really, I liked going to Israel. So, all right, so you come back and then you start in, you're hanging around, because I met you at the cellar and I remember I had an adverse reaction to you.

A thousand percent. Believe that and don't blame you. I was just like overly keen. I was like, you know. What you were was that, you were dropping lie to you, I'm not gonna lie to you. I'm not gonna lie to you. I'm not gonna lie to you. I'm not gonna lie to you. I'm not gonna lie to you. I'm not gonna lie to you. I'm not gonna lie to you.

I'm not gonna lie to you. I'm not gonna lie to you. I'm not gonna lie to you. I'm not gonna lie to you. I'm not gonna lie to you. I'm not gonna lie to you. I'm not gonna lie to you. I'm not gonna lie to you.

I'm not gonna lie to you. I'm not gonna lie to you. I'm not gonna lie to you. I'm not gonna lie to you. I'm not gonna lie to you. I'm not gonna lie to you. I'm not gonna lie to you. I'm not gonna lie to you.

I'm not gonna lie to you. I'm not gonna lie to you. I'm not gonna lie to you. I'm not gonna lie to you. I'm not gonna lie to you. I'm not gonna lie to you. I'm not gonna lie to you. I'm not gonna lie to you. It wasn't very fair to him. Where does that take you, that desperation? What do you mean? Well, I mean, like, because we, you and I had a moment recently in the dressing room where I was talking about Frank Santarelli about a story he tells,

and then you said, oh yeah, I was there. And I'm like, there's no way you could be there. And you're like, oh, I'm sorry, I confused that. Like, there was a moment where I think your need, your desperation to be seen as part of the crew, you know, kind of gets you. But I don't think I was, but I, but the funny thing is, I remember Frank Santarelli

doing that, I'm not like doubling down here on it. If you say that like, that it didn't happen, I believe you or I confused the name, but like I truly, I actually think like. Well, I think some people like, you know, they hear stories because I knew him, like I worked with him on Comedy Central in 1990. What year did we do that show?

92, 91, you know? And so that was already a story. But it's, the thing is, I think it's possible that like, that Santarelli had been like, this thing just happened to me outside or some shit like that. Yeah.

Like, I just. But in terms of the desperation, like, I mean, the desperation was to like fit in and become a Fashion well to become a professional comedian is like I did feel like when I sat when I started doing comedy I went oh, these are my people. Yeah, they're so diverse and weird and also You get to be in the same room with your, imagine you like, imagine you're a musician and you fucking, you're influenced by these guys

who are singer-songwriters and then you're playing on the same bill of them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or they were coming in to work out shit. Like, Bill Burr would drop into the fucking open mics at the Comedy Vault. Sure. Patrice would drop into the,

I only saw him once, met him him once but like I said to him I Can't believe you're here and he was like this is what yeah what you know? Yeah, so I can't believe you're at the fucking vault Yeah, but it was already. Oh god, but I mean like it never paid me mark. You're insecure That's your problem. I believe I mean like that white ponytail pulled back dude. I used to drive He used to open with that preacher bit. Yeah, yeah, I still open for but I loved I loved that and it was diverse No, it's great. And it was but you're right. By the way, you're right When you say where does that desperation take you take take you what on one hand? It's good because whenever you're developing material you feel everybody behind you going like yeah, right

Okay, you want to sit at the table, okay, you wanna sit at the table, make sure the jokes are, make sure the jokes are not jokes we would ding you for. Right. And so that's a decent, that's a decent, and you don't wanna be a tragic case. Yeah, yeah. But on the other hand, you know,

it is good to sort of like, to stop competing so much or to compete in like a different thing or to feel the insecurity of it But it took a long time and it took me going to another place to remove myself from that So you did all that, you know You did you paid your dues a bit in Boston and then you were in New York for a little while or you didn't really live In New York for comedy though, did you know I was in college, but I stayed I did copywriting jobs I did little ads wrote ads and like documentaries and things like that, like for an advertising agency.

But like, I mostly did my, I did my last semester of college in London and I fell in at this place called the Soho Theater, where you've been. Yeah, I've worked there a couple of times. And they developed these solo shows. Sure. And so I was-

On the set of other shows. Yeah, I was obsessed. I was obsessed, it was the same thing. I was like, oh my God, this group of people, Phoebe Waller-Bridge was hanging around, she was doing Fleabag. It was like, I felt really, and I met a guy who was my director,

who was like my closest friend, this guy Adam Brace, we worked together for 11 years, and Adam was really, Adam I met like my last couple of weeks in college, and he was like, you should come back, You should do this, this, and this. And like... For the one-person show thing. To do Edinburgh. So I went to Edinburgh twice with, to sort of,

to like figure out how to do it right. But not with this show necessarily? No, I've done three solo shows. So my first show was called Millennial. And I went in 2012 and 2013 as like, to do like little bits and stand-up stuff and like try to make some extra money. And then in 2014, I went with my and 2013 to do little bits and stand-up stuff and try to make some extra money.

And then in 2014, I went with my first solo show, and that's sort of when I caught a bit of a break. Which show was that? It's called Millennial. Oh, okay. But yeah, it won an award there, and because of that, I was able to keep going back for a little bit. Right, and what was the second show?

Second show was a show called Everything Handed to You. Yeah. And that was 2015, and I did the second show? Second show was a show called Everything Handed to You. Yeah. And that was 2015, I did it in the same place. And it was, and it did better, like, critically and commercially, but it didn't have the sort of, like, frisson of discovery that the first show had. So it kind of felt like a letdown, honestly. So when you're working on your third show,

now let's talk about the actual event of going to this white supremacist meeting. Sure. So it happens like you say in the show? I mean, yeah, but I changed a bunch of details and names for sometimes for real life reasons, but mostly for narrative stuff. I don't wanna ruin anything in the show if possible.

But like, I changed it because Adam was actually pretty instrumental in that. Your director? Yeah, he said to me once, I was fighting for something to go in the show, because my instinct was not, my instinct was always, let's get as many jokes in there as possible.

And his instinct was like, fucking focus, you're telling a story. And I said, well, it's true. And I said, well, it's true. And he went, well, it's not funny. And so those are the reasons things change. Yeah, it's pretty, I'd say sometimes it's like, someone's like, how true is the story? And I'm like, 70%?

Yeah. Oh, no. Right, but I imagine some of this stuff about the characters in the meeting was probably a little forgiving. A little, sometimes more forgiving, sometimes less. Like it's composited, it's composited for a whole bunch of things.

But I mean, like the actual meeting, I didn't know it was gonna be stand up. Like I told, you know, Danny Jollis? No. He's a young comic. I told him the story. I told my friend Morgan. But you just went because you were like fuck it. I

You know I had been staffed on a sitcom that I thought was gonna run for a while and then it got cancelled It was sync. I'll come the great indoors and done CBF. Yeah, and when it got cancelled I kind of had a bit of like a wilderness thing for like six months to a year where I would just like go to shit and I just like Hope that something interesting would like light me up enough to write. And like, or light me up enough to like not feel like useless.

Because I felt really bad when the show ended and I felt really bad when the show was canceled. And I was headlining but not enough. And so like, my friend David Burstein, he was like, we'd go to things together. Like we went to a conference on like nuclear Iran, because he was like, it'll be interesting. And so like, I was just like in a space

where I was doing a bunch of shit. But I called my mom after this meeting and she went, sweetie, why can't you get a job? Like, why can't you get another writing job? Because they were so thrilled that I had healthcare. They were just like, my mom is like, you're doing all, and my mother rarely curses, but she's like, you're doing all this stupid shit.

Why not just go get a job? But never was there a point where she thought, like, you know, why would you put yourself in an unsafe situation? You know, my parents are, in one, my parents started letting me leave the house to go to open mics and go to Fenway Park and go to, from the time I was 12 years old,

I was always on roller blades, just like, and the T, just trying to like get to places. And I think my parents sort of gave up really quickly and they just sort of trusted. They're like, all right, he's out in the world. Hopefully nothing bad happens. But you didn't feel like, you know, the way you characterize the white supremacist meeting

at this apartment is, you know, like I would think, you know, it was would think, you know, it was Queens and I get it and it's a little odd that it's an apartment, but what about the nature of fear? I was a little churning, but like, you know, I've been in lots of those, I wanna say I've been in lots of those situations, but especially in Boston, there were moments where you're at a house party

and it doesn't seem safer. Like I went to go see Farrakhan speak a few weeks ago in Detroit, and if you're listening and you don't know, Farrakhan runs the Nation of Islam. I didn't know he was still alive. 90 years old, and he's a rabid anti-Semite. Like he is truly, it was three and a half hours, he spoke for like three and a half hours,

which is actually pretty impressive, of unmitigated anti-Semitism. And I was like, maybe there were four white people in this crowd of like 8,000 people. And whenever he said something anti-Semitic, like the people next to me were like, like, ah! Yeah. And I thought to myself, like,

should I feel scared right now? Like, is there something wrong where I'm not like... I'm not like, uh, my friend John says where I'm not like... My friend John says that I'm the weirdest mixture of fearful and fearless. I'm afraid of doing drugs stronger than weed. Like I'm terrified of it. And I'm afraid of a lot, but I've always felt like I kind of can talk my way out of anywhere.

Yeah. So I've never, no, I don't really feel afraid in most environments. I'm like, pretty okay. You'll adapt and figure out a way out. There's, but there's, Mark, like truly, most places have that thing. Like, don't you think if someone dropped you genuinely in the middle of a KKK meeting, eventually you'd be like, hey, listen, you know, like, I'm sorry, if it ever gets truly hairy, you can always be like, excuse me, I'm sorry to be in your space, I can, I'm gonna go

because this feels... We hope, I mean, like from your experience, sure, that's true. Also there's, as I say in the show, there's privilege in that, right? Like there's, I hate when people use privilege to excuse something that can be excused in another way because it feels like lazy and self-congratulating. But truly, walking into that room as a white guy is a thing that only a white guy can do, right?

Like a black guy can't walk in there. Right, you knew you could at least roll the dice. Yeah, and also, by the way, if I felt truly, truly, truly, truly, truly scared, then I wouldn't have been like, I wouldn't have copped to being Jewish. I thought at some point, well, I've done enough to let them know. Right. You wouldn't have been, also you wouldn't have been speaking, but it was like from the sound

of it, it was a fairly intimate gathering. So you were going to be seen. Yeah. But no one's gonna look at me. I actually do think, by the way, like obviously if someone's, there are sometimes people have actually said to me, you don't look, oh, you're Jewish? I wasn't quite, I wasn't sure, I wasn't sure. Like, I'm not wearing, that's the thing about not wearing a yarmulke. Like, I actually would love to wear a yarmulke, but I also like to just sort of be in a space

and see what's going on. Well, I think that ultimately what happens, you know, through the arc of the show, you know, and then the ultimate punch line, which I don't know, even if you made it up, is fine. The last beat. But the fact becomes, you know, as a person, that, you know, when you're in a situation

where somebody says, you know, this isn't for you. Yeah. Like, I mean, I, you know, that you're in a situation where somebody says, you know, this isn't for you. Yeah. Like, I mean, I, you know, that, that's an interesting thing because that's not we're gonna kill you. That's not we're gonna beat you up. You know, like I remember I went to see a lecture at a woman's space in Cambridge

because a woman had written this book that I was fascinated with. But they was being put on by, I think, an organization called the Women's Space. And I was the only guy in there. And I really just wanted to hear about, it was tracking misogyny through images from the beginning of images.

So it was sort of an art, whatever. But I just wanted to hear her talk about and speak to it about how you could read it that way. And a woman came up to me and said, you know, this isn't your place. Obviously you're free to stay, but it's not for you, you're not wanted here. But that's a little different.

No, I mean it is, but also it's the same, like sometimes, not to get into a completely different philosophical discussion, but like, should some spaces be some people only, right? Should there be women's only spaces? Should there be gay only spaces? Does doing that mean that it's harder for people to, you know, access perspective for other people?

It's a really interesting question. But I think rarely is it, there's not a line drawn, it's just understood. Yeah, of course. It's based on fundamental respect. You know, like I get that. And that's who, you know what I mean? It's not like you're not allowed.

But is it wrong, like here's a good question though, is it wrong of me, is it okay because Farrakhan is so anti-Semitic and so hateful and so homophobic. Is it okay for me to go to Savior's Day, which is a holy day for people in the nation of Islam? Is it wrong for me to, as a person, buy a ticket? Pete is open to the public? Jon is yeah, you buy a ticket to go to Huntington Point in Detroit. I flew to Detroit to just see this thing. No, I mean, it's not wrong.

And ultimately, you know, I have found, and maybe you found this too, even if like, not unlike the Nazi meeting or the white supremacist meeting, is that once you're found out, usually they understand why you're there. Yeah, of course. And it's not as an infiltrator.

It's a reasonable thing to sort of want to know what's up. That's exactly how I feel. I've always wanted to. But when I say Boston is a great place to grow up for that. Boston is a great place to go if you want to know what's up. Absolutely. I used to do those fucking gigs. I was terrified.

I was terrified of the Boston Irish for years. Because I felt so different. But then I was forcing myself into these situations and doing this comedy for these people. And you do learn what's up. And then if you start doing gigs in Fall River, you understand the sort of Portuguese townie and the Italian townie and the Irish townie.

of Portuguese townie and the Italian townie and the Irish townie, you know, and then you start, it's an education and it's an experiment in acceptance and tolerance. But there is a thing too where I'm like, I love to go to a foreign environment, but it's like England was a good example. I was there for years, but it's not like, I didn't always, but even there I didn't like quite fit in.

Even there it was like, it was a thing where people were like, who's this fucking guy? He was just like, manages to always like, you know, because Norwegian used to, you could get a flight, a round trip flight to and from England for like 280 bucks for a while, which was crazy. You'd have to go to Gatwick, but it was, and navigating there was a whole thing,

but for a while, it was flying back and forth from England like, you know, once a month. And people were like, who's this fucking guy? It was like, who's here? Who's, you know, who's in Edinburgh? Who's like trying to, you know. Yeah, but they knew. I mean, it wasn't like, it couldn't have been that off-putting.

Yeah, but it was, I'm still a little like, and also the Soho Theater's- But that's an American thing. Yeah, it's an American thing, but also like, you know, I was, I learned how to be a comedian in England and Adam helped me hugely in watching other great comics like James A. Castor and you know, Nish Kumar and Stuart Lee, like that really, that shit really helped.

It was really, really good. Yeah, Stuart's great and James is great too. I talked to James. So what's the big plan now? I mean, the show is good, it's coming out on HBO great too. I talked to James. So what's the big plan now? I mean the show is good It's coming out on HBO and then like what do you ultimately want out of this business with your with your drive? I Don't know. I think I need a minute. Well, I mean do you want to do another show you want to write a show? You want to be a sitcom called you? I'd love to do another show. I love doing a sitcom

Yeah, Jew would be great me and Andy Kimler. Yes. He plays your dad. Yeah, of course Yeah, but I I don't know. I think I need you know, Adam I was writing another show with Adam, but Adam passed away. So I think that's Jesus which was sorry. No, no, it was Not to get too mockish here. But but I really appreciated your last special when I watched it because You know Adam was my best friend. So we did everything together. What'd he do? He had a stroke. Oh my God.

He was 42 or 43. Jesus Christ. But he was, and we made this show together. So putting it to bed and putting it on, putting it out feels really like... In honor of him. Well, yeah, I mean, the special's dedicated to him, obviously, but, you know, like, it's...

It's, uh... I don't know exactly what to do next. Like, I'd like to act just because it seems like fun. Yeah. Like, truly, it seems like fun. Like, it feels like a really interesting thing I've never gotten to explore. Like, I've always done a lot of writing.

Yeah. I've wrote on TV shows. I'm writing some TV shows and some... I'm adapting the Christmas story from the show into a movie. Um, but... But I don't, you know, I'd love to do another show, but I think I need, like, I need a fucking minute. Yeah, yeah.

Because I've never... Adam, I did all three of my solo shows with him directing it, so now I'm not quite sure. I feel like a little bit at a crossroads, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I hear you, but you know, you're just doing the stand-up, and then it'll just unfold in its own time. I really hope so.

It's just like, I feel kind of empty in terms of like, I need to like, I need a fucking minute, but also like, you know, I think I'll do some, some people have asked about acting, some people have asked, and like writing, so like, I love doing other stuff, but I think I'll do some, some people have asked about acting, some people have, and like writing, so like, I love doing other stuff, but I think I need a minute away from solo shows

to like go empty other things, but there's nothing like a solo show, man, there's nothing like, or there's nothing like a substantive hour of standup, I think that'll be good. No, I agree with you, yeah, it's satisfying. The acting, I hope you get a lot out of it, I mean, it's a lot of waiting around.

Yeah, but you, you know, you do it, you had a blast during the, Glow, or my show, or whatever. Yeah, Glow, your show. When you're on camera, yeah, you's a lot of waiting around. Yeah, but you do it. You had a blast during the... Glow, or my show, or whatever. Glow your show. When you're on camera, yeah, you have a blast, but then, and I gotta stop complaining about this, I'm never gonna get work, but you know,

the waiting around thing, figure out what to do in the trailer, plan it now. Do some writing, do some reading. Good luck with that. But I fucking, I mean, like, I did a little tiny bit in this Seinfeld movie that's coming out, and I mean tiny, like it's basically a cameo. But it was so fun to be on a set with the cameras,

like it's a whole new, I want a new environment man, that's all I want, I want like for the time being, but I'll go back to stand up and all this stuff. Seems like it's gonna happen for you. I don't know, I have no idea, genuinely. Like I'm not being- No one does buddy. No one does. People go up, people go down,

but you're on the peak of a wave. Enjoy yourself, Jew. Thanks, bud. All right, man. Well, there you go. So you can watch just for us, Alex is special, streaming on Macs and airing on HBO. Hang out for a minute, people.

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can find new opportunities. Because if your business is on the road, we want to make sure it's on the road to success. Enterprise Mobility, moving you moves the world. Yes, people! For full Marin listeners, we've got a companion piece for this week's Carol Burnett episode. It's an archive deep dive about all the comedy legends we've had on the show, like Jonathan Winters, Carl Reiner, and Mel Brooks. That was great.

It was great. Because I, you know, I don't, again, these guys don't know, you know, they all still have AOL addresses. They don't know what I'm doing. You know, they know I'm coming over there with a microphone. And you know, when I show up by myself, they're always sort of like, just you? You know, like, you know.

But I went over to Mel's office, yeah. And his assistant was there, and she just led me into the room, and he was getting a cracker or something. I remember sort of like, you want one of these? You know, I'm all right. You know, and it just was right away. He was like locked in. And- I think at some point he had a sandwich. Yeah, I think that all right. It just was right away. He was like locked in.

I think at some point he had a sandwich. Yeah, I think that's right. Because I remember he was like one of those guys, you want a sandwich? Anything? Yeah. And that was a very interesting interview because there was all these little pockets of his life that were kind of fascinating. The childhood friendship with Buddy Rich.

He loved that you knew that stuff. He was so excited that when he, you would bring up these like big band people to him. And he'd be like, you know that? Oh yeah, and he would launch into his stories of drumming. Yeah, yeah, those are like, that's a real entry point. If you can find those things and you're intuitive about it, or you have instincts about it,

it's a great place to start with almost anybody. To get that episode and all the full Merrim bonus episodes, go to the link in the episode description or go to WTFpod.com and click on WTF plus to sign up. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp Online Therapy. Take a minute to check your social battery. How's it doing? It's easy to ignore our needs

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