WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1530 - Malcolm McDowell

Episode Date: April 15, 2024

When Malcolm McDowell left behind Liverpool to pursue acting in London, he didn’t imagine it would be the start of 60 years as a performer. Malcolm talks with Marc about his extraordinary career, including his work with Stanley Kubrick on A Clockwork Orange, the pornographic fate of Caligula, and stories about Lawrence Olivier, Alan Bates, Peter Sellers, Robert Altman, Mick Jagger and more. Malcolm also explains why he fell hard for Newfoundland while making the series Son of a Critch. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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All right, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fuck, Nix? What's happening? I'm Mark Maron. This is my podcast. Welcome to it. How's it going? We've been chipping away here for many years. And, uh, we keep doing it. It's, uh, always good. It's always exciting. It's always interesting to me Because as I've told you before I don't I don't really know What's going to happen anytime I talk to anybody and I don't know What they're gonna be like I can make assumptions But I just don't ever know so it's always a very engaged

Situation today is a great example know so it's always a very engaged situation. Today is a great example. Today is a great example. I talked to Malcolm McDowell. Now we all know Malcolm McDowell. We all definitely know him from one thing, from one fucking thing that has been seared into all of our memories and That's a clockwork orange and if you had cool parents or you somehow got to see it before they knew what was happening Caligula that I don't remember what year that came out, but I must have been in high school if not younger

But the truth is he's been working almost non-stop For like 60 years 60 years. He's currently in the series Son of a Critch which just finished its third season on the CW and I gotta be honest with you this is Malcolm McDowell. Now look you have him in your head. I mean maybe I'm projecting but you have this guy in your head. What was his name in Clockwork Orange? Alex. And that movie, I don't know when you saw it, and if you haven't seen it, and you're over 30,

it's too late for it to be seared into your brain properly. I saw it in high school. I saw it a couple of times, and it was like, what the fuck am I watching? All of it. It was a futuristic, it was a satire and it was a you know oddly meant to be funny and

I knew that I was going to be talking to that guy and this is setting aside, you know 60 years of work and Caligula another thing that that movie broke my brain when I was in high school, cause it was filthy. There's a blowjob in the middle of that Caligula that was originally released by Gucci Oni that it was just like, what? What's happening? You know, it was just full on porn.

And apparently, as you'll find out in talking to Malcolm, they had no idea. There was big actors in that. There was Peter O'Toole was in it. Helen Mirren was in it. It was crazy. John Gilgud. I mean, it was a big movie.

It came out in 1979. So I was still in high school when we went to see that unbeknownst to the folks. But my parents wouldn't have stopped anything anyways. But it was a brain bender. And apparently with that cast, that high level cast, they had no idea about what Guccione, the director, was going to insert into that. And I had a pretty long conversation

within this conversation with Malcolm about Caligula and about some of the other actors. I literally thought that I was gonna be talking to the guy from Clockwork Orange, and he's now like an older guy. But I mean, some things, they just stick with you, man. He's 80, and he's done a lot of stuff, and he's a great storyteller,

and I gotta be honest with you, it's a great one. It's one of the all-timers for me, just because he was so ready to talk and he really had a nice time. Okay, so there's a lot going on that I think you need to know about. None the least of which, is that the saying? Is I went on my old hike today with my newly healed foot

and it went fine. I even ran down like a fucking idiot thinking I'd break something else, but I was concerned, man. I was concerned about my fear. That's what I was concerned about. I was like if this broken foot is going to be the thing that makes me nervous about doing the things that I like to do compulsively to make myself feel better, that's going to be a problem for the rest of my life. But I got up there and we were heading down. We usually trot down and I felt strong.

I had those on-running hiking boots that go up over the ankle for more support. So I was like, fuck it, let's go. I was a little tenuous, but not afraid. Just careful, and it worked out. I did think I was gonna break something else, but that went well. Now I just gotta decide what to do with the arthritis

on my bottom toe, big toe knuckles, which you could see in the x-ray when he took the x-ray of my foot. He's like, you got a lot of arthritis around there. I'm like, I know, dude, I've been in pain for years. But that's a whole other thing. What can and can't you live with, man? He said we could scrape it off,

but it seems like the recovery would be something back in the boot. Look, I'm not gonna worry about it. I'll just wait until my toes become non-functional. Look, I'll be in Texas this Thursday, April 18th, in Austin at the Paramount Theater as part of the Moon Tower Comedy Festival. I'll be in Mont this Thursday, April 18th in Austin at the Paramount Theater as part of the Moon Tower Comedy Festival. I'll be in Montclair, New Jersey on Thursday, May 2nd

at the Wellmont Center. Glenside, Pennsylvania near Philly on Friday, May 3rd at the Keswick Theater. Washington, D.C. on Saturday, May 4th at the Warner Theater. Munhall, Pennsylvania outside Pittsburgh on May 9th at the Carnegie Library Music Hall. Cleveland, Ohio on May 10th at the Playhouse Square, Detroit, Michigan on May 11th

at the Royal Oak Music Theater. Go to wtfpod.com slash tour for all my dates and links to tickets. Now things might be changing and some of you may be disappointed because through a very kind of harrowing process in terms of me making decisions I have been cast in

a show for Apple TV with the with the very funny Owen Wilson Now the show I don't know what I can and can't tell you about, but I think I can give you the log line, give or take. He is a kind of washed up golfer. A washed up pro golfer. You know, he was a pro player like 20 years ago.

And I play his good friend and former caddy, Mitz. And it's about, it is about a relationship between two dudes who have been through some shit, but it's also about this kid, a prodigy, that Owen's character, Price, sees on a driving range and wants to take under his wing. Now there's a whole series that unfolds here. We're gonna shoot 10 of them.

But I became interested in it. Initially I was like, here's the thing about me. And I'll be honest with you. When I get offered anything, when I have any opportunity, even if I decide to do it, even if it's an opportunity I'm giving myself, I don't wanna do it. I just don't like, I don't, as it turns out,

even given my life, I'm a bit of a homebody. I don't like to shake up my patterns, and I do have patterns. I'm here in LA. I do my work at home. I have no problem occupying time. I'm self-employed, which means I never really stop working, and I don't know how to stop working. And, you know, I have my cats, and I'm self-employed, which means I never really stop working and I don't know how to stop working.

And, you know, I have my cats and I'm very vigilant, weirdly hypervigilant in my connective relationship with them. Kit is here and, you know, I have a life. And it's a relatively small one, but I find that the patterns of life are comforting and grounding. So when I have an opportunity that's going to take me out of my life for too long, I'm like, Oh God, then what am I going to do? What am I cats going to do? Now I got to get someone to stay at the house.

And like, what if they, what if one of them gets sick? What about my, you know, my parents are old and what about, you know, like, where am I going to eat? How, what's the story in the, what kind of place am I staying at? Like I just can't. That's why I only go out on the road in a minimal way. I do three or four dates at a time.

I make sure to come home in between to regroup. It's just the way I am. And then part of me now, because I'm kind of on the other side of the arc and I've done okay and I've saved my money, there's not an urgency. I'm not desperate. I don't need to do everything that comes down the pike and there was a time where I did and you know that part of my brain

doesn't really go away. You think, when am I gonna get another opportunity? So it was a strange struggle for me to figure out how to do this and continue to do the podcast at the quality and intensity that you guys have grown to expect and what we do here that is unique needs to continue on. This is my primary vocation and creative outlet along with stand up. So in order to take and do a TV show, you know, I've got to figure out, we've got to negotiate how I can do all the other things that I do, my other two jobs effectively. Now look, I can take a little time off standup.

I've never really have, but I imagine I'll be able to do it where I'm going to be shooting. But that's the deal. I'm going to shoot 10 episodes of a TV show with Owen Wilson, and now that I've decided to do it and they've accommodated my needs to continue at least doing my other jobs as efficiently as you are used to and I am used to, I saw no reason not to. Work doesn't come that often and it's a difficult time in show business and the truth is this character is a heavy-hearted dude and I relate to the character. I relate to the relationship.

I like the idea of working with Owen and seeing if we can find a groove together. It is a golf show. I don't know a ton about golf. I'm not a golfer, but I've been studying. I've been watching. I've been learning about golfers I'm not a golfer, but I've been studying, I've been watching, I've been learning about golfers and their lives. I don't think that I have to do any active caddying or golfing, but nonetheless, I am familiarizing myself with the world and beginning to put this guy

together. So that's exciting news, but I wish I could say that like right from the get-go when I got offered, I was like, yes. No, I was like, what? No, I'm, but I'm going to retire. And then it's sort of like, dude, you're, you're 60. I want an opportunity like this. It is sort of a stretch, uh, to be in this world and to be working with a guy like Owen and to, uh, to sort of build out a guy who has, I think, some of the similar things to me, but isn't me, and kind of like make some progress

in some of the things that I wanna do with acting that I haven't done up to this point. I'm a little more aware of certain things. So that's exciting, but I shouldn't say canceled, moved. So don't despair. The only problem with moving gigs is who the fuck knows what kind of world we're gonna be in after November, but maybe I'll have to change the whole set.

I don't know. I do not know. But I will let you know when and where those gigs are that we're rescheduling. And I apologize in advance, but I'm going to do a TV show So look, okay Malcolm McDowell as I said before I thought it was gonna be intimidating But Jesus did we have a good time and did he tell some great stories about some old actors that I know? Maybe you'll know

and and just I don't know. It was just one of those ones where I was, uh, I, as I said before, I don't know what's going to happen in here. And my assumptions are almost 95% wrong. Founded in fear and a little bit of dread and which is fine. That's the way I go into it. And to be pleasantly surprised and engaged and Entertained and connected

95% of the time is good. Those are good numbers unfortunately, the preparation causes me a little a little stress, but I'm used to it and I see it as my process but Malcolm McDowell is currently in a show called Son of a Critch. Full seasons of the show are streaming on CWTV.com and on the CW app. And here we go, me and Malcolm McDowell. Will you rise with the sun to help change mental health care forever? Join the Sunrise Challenge to raise funds for CAMAGE, the Center for Addiction and Mental Health to support life-saving progress in mental health care. From May 27th to 31st, people across Canada will rise together and show those living with mental

illness and addiction that they're not alone. Help CAMH build a future where no one is left behind. So, who will you rise for? Register today at sunrisechallenge.ca. That SunriseChallenge.ca. That's SunriseChallenge.ca. Addiction doesn't discriminate people. In Canada, for instance, we lose 20 people to drug overdose every single day. So if you're listening to this and you've experienced addiction,

just know that you're not alone. CAMH is the Center for Addiction and Mental Health, and they're hard at work creating better treatments and interventions for anyone experiencing addiction. CAMH is revolutionizing our understanding of the brain and transforming patient care by knocking down the barriers that keep people from getting help. Sometimes it feels like there's no hope if you're feeling the impact of addiction in your life.

Maybe you experience it directly or maybe indirectly, like if you're dealing with the effects it has on your family or friends or co-workers. You don't have to surrender to hopelessness because CAMH is confronting addiction head-on through groundbreaking research. And right now you can partner with CAMH to build a future where no one is left behind. Help change mental health care care forever donate at camh.ca slash wtf to help camh treat addiction and build hope that's camh.ca slash wtf looking at that mcjager poster yeah yeah. Yeah. He doesn't talk to me anymore, but... What'd you do? We were quite good friends at one point. It's pretty amazing to see them still at it. You know, I did a long bit on one, one of the specials, a couple specials ago. Yeah.

Just about how it's gotten to the point as a Stones fan, where I'm a little uncomfortable. Yeah. Look. I mean, better to have a little than none at all. Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah. And you have to tip your hat. I mean, when I was with Mick, this is in the 70s.

Oh, so peak, peak Mick. Yeah, this this is in the 70s. Oh, so peak, peak Mick. Yeah, but the later 70s. Okay. After the disco Mick. After the huge, huge tours and all that. Yeah. And we were hanging quite a bit because we had mutual friends.

Yeah. And it was always, you know, with the various crowd of people. I remember sitting with him in somebody's apartment in New York and him, we were looking over the park. It was dark. We were sitting on like a window bench. And we were just chatting away and he says to me something like, course Mal, you know, I can't see myself doing this at 50. And I went 50? Good God no. I mean 50, it would be sort of gross. Right. He goes yeah, so you know

and then he looked over and he goes, the king lives over there. And I looked over and I went, yeah, John. Really? Yeah. Isn't that wild? Yeah. That Mick, the reference. It's the interesting thing about The Beatles and the Stones, you know?

Yeah. Because did you watch any of that documentary? Oh, yeah, I watched it all. It's crazy, right? You know, I'm from Liverpool and saw them as the Silverbunds. Stop it. You did. Oh yeah.

You know, I've heard this thing and I keep bringing it up and I can't get validation on it that the owner of that club. Yeah, the Cavern. The Cavern had some stash of some old Nazi amphetamine and that the guys were hopped up. That's bollocks. Oh no. Okay. I really don't believe that. They may have been hopped up. That's bollocks. Oh. No. Okay.

I really don't believe that. They may have been hopped up. Right, but not on that. And I'll tell you, I had no idea what I was watching. I went with a girlfriend, she dragged me in there. Yeah. And, you know, it's a tiny room. Yeah.

Basically a vault. Yeah. With a vaulted ceiling. Small though, not big. Uh-huh. And the place was like seething mass of rhythm. Yeah. And watching these guys, they're so together. It was, it's crazy. So together. The great, you would think, my God, and this is a local Liverpool band. They weren't even the most popular on Mersey side. Yeah. The most popular band was the Mersey Sippies, a jazz band.

Yeah. They had a poll in the local paper. Yeah, yeah. But there they were and immediately your eye went to John. Really? To John. Yeah. Because he was, as they say in Liverpool, the hard knock.

Yeah. And he really, he had the edge. Yeah. And he was the, like, fuck you. Fuck you. You don't like it? Fuck you. And, and, you know, Paul was all...

Sure. All Paul. Yeah, all Paul. Um... But you could tell right then. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, I, would I say, hey, they're gonna be the biggest band of all time?

No, of course not. But you'd say, I said, wow, these guys are fucking great. And this was before Ringo you saw them? Before Ringo. Wow. I can't even imagine, because there's footage of that stuff around and they were operating... Very little. There's one kind of, I think one clip right that I've seen and they're going fast. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that was it

They didn't sing any of their own stuff. Yeah, everything was Chuck Berry little Richard Sure, and you know John has the greatest rock and roll voice. Yeah, I mean, oh, yeah And you know who John's favorite singer was? I think I do. Was it maybe, was it Little Richard or? Eric Burton. Eric Bert. He could sing, dude. Royalty, baby. Yeah. You know that guy? Yes, very well. How's he doing? He's doing great. Oh, good. He lives in Athens, married to a beautiful Greek wife. Okay. And in fact, I did a detour, I was in London two months ago and I went, you know what, I'm gonna see him. Yeah. I jumped on a plane and went to see him. How was that? And he's great. He's great. It was lovely, you know, just to hang for a couple of

days. Yeah, those first few animals records were just belters. Incredible. Yeah. You know that Eric was the Eggman, right? No. So they went over to John's flat, and he's going, I'm fucking hungry, whatever. You know, maybe go, he goes, yeah, help yourself in the fridge. He goes, the fridge is absolutely bare except for a carton of eggs. Yeah. And he goes, there's only eggs here.

And he picks them, starts to throw them. And he goes, hey, the Eggman. That's where that comes from? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He loved Eric Burden. Oh, he loved him. Yeah. He loved him.

So, I have no sense of, you know, other than, you know, what you read about the Beatles, what Liverpool must have been like at the time. You grew up there. Yes. The Beat—well, Liverpool was an industrial working class town. Dark. Was it depressive? Yes.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. It was depressive and, um, you know, miserable weather right there on the Irish Sea. You know, it's right on the Mersey, the River Mersey, which is... It's a hard town. A very hard town, and yet brilliant comedians, musicians coming out, and artists. Because it's the kind of place that nobody went through. You had to go. That was the end of your journey.

And also, I think it's sort of like diamonds. You get these young people who are getting pressed by the oppressive environment. Well, you know, they had the big, it's a big port. And so this is where they got, you know, the Chuck Berry records and the Muddy Waters and all those wonderful blues singers from the Delta and all that from, you know, they came over on the liners.

And they passed them around or they came over with the military sometimes. Well, mainly on the liners. I So that's what I think Paul said. Yeah, it may have been I think may have been Paul's cousin or John's. I'm not sure which that worked as a steward. OK, and brought back a Muddy Waters record. And they all, of course. And then someone gave it to Keith Richards and then they got one in London

and met on the Southern Railway. Yeah, that's, he goes, ooh, what are you carrying there? I've got that record, that's a fucking great record. Yeah, no, that's amazing. But you didn't hang out with Keith, right? He was on his- No, I don't know Keith. I just admire from a distance. Yeah.

I've always loved him though. Well, you know what's interesting about him is that he gets older, he just keeps talking. Like, for years you're like, does that guy even talk much? And now, like, he's a witty, funny, smart guy. Oh, he's fantastic. I loved his book. Yeah, it's great.

And of course, it's his voice. Yeah. He may not have written it down. He must have told the stories. Oh, no, totally. And that was one of those mind-blowing things where you're like, this guy's not just some junkie. No way. I mean, he's like the core of it., hey look what he wrote. I know that's all you gotta say

Yeah, I mean he's seriously one of the great composers. Oh, yeah, he's the best I love the guy he did they just did a cover He just did a cover of I'm waiting for the man the Lou Reed song. Oh that I saw on YouTube It's great. I work with Lou Reed. he did on a movie called get crazy a really weird funky little movie yeah and Lou Reed was in it how was he cranky well I know yeah totally but I didn't get to work with him all he was it was really about a New Year's Eve big like the film or ease okay and the big New Year's Eve, like the Fillmore East or something, and the big New Year's Eve party, and he was on his way in a cab, but gets waylaid and singing in the

cab and doing a... Wow. That sounds like a more fun Lou Reed than I usually hear about. Yeah, probably. I talked to Laurie Anderson, his wife, and after he passed, he's a big Tai Chi guy. You know, there's things you learn. Yeah, he was writing a whole book about his practice, and she put it out. And it's like one of those things.

It's like Keith's book. It's like, really? Yeah. He had these other, but we don't know everything about celebrities or artists. No, of course not. Not of that generation. Now everybody, you know, everything about everybody. Yeah, the social media,

which are so, you've all gotta do it, it's just ridiculous. Yeah, I'm telling people what you did for the weekend. Yeah, yeah. It gives a fuck. You don't do it. I had a shit big deal. Get over it.

So, I'm assuming you're not on there? You're not on the social media. Well, no, I am because I've been told, you know, hey,'ve got to get your keep your you know your TV queue up. Wow. And I'm going well what I mean seriously my Instagram is basically an obituary to all my friends who passed away and I'm left standing. You're not getting you a lot of followers? I've got 70,000. That's good. It's not bad. That's not bad. So what is it? So your family?

What's your dad do in Liverpool? My dad was a Ran a pub. Oh and a hotel Wow and So it was great. But ality business. Yes. Yeah, basically drank the profits. That was the only problem But so growing up there Was a sort of amazing thing. But you see I went to school, I went to a boarding school in the south of England. Yeah, you got out. I got out.

They had the wherewithal to get you out. Yes. So they knew that I was getting into trouble there. Oh yeah? So they moved me out. You're heading the wrong direction? I was heading in the wrong direction. So, when I came back for the holidays, I had to get rid of my Liverpool accent at school because they mocked me and bullied me.

Was that distinct? They knew. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I had to affect, you know, a more neutral kind of accent. Would that be a class thing? Yes, totally. Yeah.

And if you didn't conform, you were treated mocked terribly. Yeah. I would sort of talk like that because I'm from Yorkshire, you know, more, it's a bit softer than Liverpool. It's a bit like Hindlewakes. Yeah, Liverpool's hard. Hey fuck you Get lost laugh. Hey, come on. Yeah. So what'd you what'd you turn it into what you have now? Oh What I have now is a mixture of everything Yeah, but when you went to boarding school you had to be vigilante

It took me a year or two to figure, because I fought it. My instinct was to fight it. And suddenly I realized that fighting this is really not getting me anywhere. It's just getting me into a whole lot of trouble. And these other guys are getting away with it. I'll join them. Yeah. And these other guys are getting away with it. Yeah. I'll join them. Right.

So, uh... So, you focused? I suddenly started to, uh, not say so much, and when I did, lose the accent. So this was your first acting job? Yes. And basically it was. And then, um, the headmaster put me in all the plays. So that's really where I learned to act was at school.

In boarding school. In boarding school, yes. We did Shakespeare plays. I did all the great parts in Shakespeare before I left school at 18. Now, did you like it? Well, I must have done. Yeah.

I think when I first walked onto a stage, I remember feeling like I was going to throw up in the wings. Getting the cue, walking on, and suddenly feeling, wow, I'm at home here. You did right away. I feel very comfortable. Very seen. Yeah, I can, and very powerful.

You can make people laugh Just by doing little things. Yeah. You know, it's... He just loved it. I just loved it. Did you understand the Shakespeare, generally? Well, I didn't totally understand the language. Yeah.

And I still don't. Yeah. And I've been a member of the Royal Shakespeare Company in the 60s. Yeah. So from boarding school, you decided to pursue it? I became, I did what my father wanted me to do. I went into commerce. He had a friend who ran a factory that manufactured roasted coffee and sold coffee.

And I went in as a management trainee. They suddenly had one of their sales reps was arrested for dealing in stolen goods. And they went, you better get up there. So your territory is Yorkshire. Now that's like saying to an American, your territory is Texas. It's big. And this is, so I go up there selling coffee

where they only drink tea. Yeah. They really did, it's locked in the tea, isn't it? Yeah. Oh yeah. So it was really like my, it was really like, you know, a training to be an actor because you would have to affect whatever, whoever the catering manager or manageress you met, you went with whatever they were going,

you would affect whatever was going on. And this was an instant coffee, it was brewed coffee? Both. Oh, okay. Yeah, it was both, and I had to go in, sometimes they'd go, oh, thank God, the coffee man's here. Hey, I just sell coffee, I don't know anything about it. Oh, I'll try.

Yeah, and of course, the machine. I'll take the bloody thing apart, and I haven't got a clue don't know anything about it. Oh, I'll try. Yeah, and of course the machine. I'll take the bloody thing apart and haven't got a clue how to put it back together. Gotta go. Yeah, exactly, exactly. So how do you get to the acting? Do you have siblings? I do.

My sister went off to be a Dior model in Paris. Yeah. And I have a younger sister. Yeah, she's living in England still. She's my last one. Yeah. And I have a younger sister, yeah, she's living in England still, she's my last one. Yeah. And so what happened was I had a girlfriend who went to an elocution teacher, whose name was

Mrs. Harold Ackley, was on a brass plate. Yeah. And in Liverpool, and she said she was going to her to lose her, to do elocution. So she went, Malcolm, I think you better go. You'd like her. She's great. She used to be a silent movie star.

Are you kidding me? Oh, okay, I'll go check her out. A silent movie star teaching elocution. Yeah, exactly. And she was, I mean, a trip. I adored her. And she'd go, Malcolm, she was blind mean a trip. Yeah, I adored her. Yeah, and she'd go Malcolm She was blind as a bat. Yeah, and I would just read the stuff and she goes, you know it so well I go. Yeah, I spent a lot of time working on this one. I mean I was just

anyway, she got me into the lambda to do a an audition and I passed it the audition and one of the adjudicators there was a producer of a local repertory theater and offered me a job, and I instantly took it. That was it. Doin' what? Playing parts and assistant stage manager. Lambda is the London Academy, what does it stand for?

The London Academy of Music. Yeah, that's one of the two, it's either that or the Royal Shakespeare, right? No, RADA is the Royal. Okay, that's it, yeah, yeah. That's where Albert Finney went and Peter O'Toole, the posh ones went there. Lambda's rather more mundane working class one.

And who were your peers? You know, I didn't actually attend. I just did an audition there. And one of the judges there offered me a job right away in the theater, which I took, you know, instantly. And I went off. So you didn't train? I don't, no.

No, I did not train at all. Thank God. I didn't train. But that was really a class difference between the two schools? Yeah, well, yes. There were many drama schools. There's another one called The Central. Yeah. And, but Radar is considered the best.

Right. And Radar was, it was probably the best, you know. And I mean, look, they could produce Albert Finney, for God's sake. Yeah. For me, was my generation's greatest hero. Yeah. And I remember sitting in the Odeon in Lime

Street, Liverpool, and watching Albert in a movie and thinking, he's from Salford, that's 25 miles away. Yeah. I think I could do this. Yeah. I'm going to try. I'm going to do it.

Yeah. Because then, you know, to get from Liverpool to London was a big deal. Yeah. I'm going to try. I'm going to do it. Yeah. Because then, you know, to get from Liverpool to London was a big deal. It's like going to the big smoke. Right. You know, that's what we called it. Yeah. You go to the big smoke. Yeah.

And it was very sort of intimidating. Big city. Oh, real big. I mean, Liverpool is like three quarters of a million. Right. Half a million or something. So pretty big. Yeah.

But London, eight million. Yeah. In those days. Yeah. And, you know, a very exciting place. Well, what did your dad think of that decision? He thought it was a big mistake. Yeah.

He thought it was a big mistake. Yeah. He thought it was a big mistake. But the truth is, his father was an actor as well. A working actor? Yes. Okay. And actually a very successful one. He was called an actor manager. So he put together a company and paid the actors and they went on tours around, provincial tours

around. With Shakespeare or plays? No, Pop Boilers. Okay. You know. So it was like a... Sweeney Todd. Okay.

No Shakespeare. God, no. You can't make money on Shakespeare. It was a traveling troop. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But they never talked about him, so I didn't realize that he was an actor What it was he a monster? No, no, no, he was he wasn't his name was Beckett. Hmm, and I remember him as a child

young child When I was about four years old. Yeah, this man with white hair lived in the top of the hotel Yeah, this is in Yorkshire. Oh, yeah, and And his thing was that he had to have a Guinness a day. Yeah. That was his thing. And when he passed away, my mother told me, well, when I was a teenager, she said, oh yes, yes, Beckett, he left you his violin.

I went, well, you didn't tell me, where is it? I'd love his violin. She went, oh, we threw it away. You know, so there's no sentiment with those Yorkshiremen. Yeah. Oh, we threw it away. Oh, really? Okay.

But you were too young to remember the war? Yes. I mean, I was born in 43. I was apparently, I lived in Bridlington on the east coast of Yorkshire because my father flew in bombers and we moved out there because he was based right there, right on the east coast, the shortest way over to Germany. And all I do, I don't remember it, but I was told that I was blown off a table by a bomb that hit the nursing home at the end of the street. And you know what happened was the Germans

would come over, they'd bomb like leave the industrial city. So if they had any any ammunition's left, they just drop it on the way back. And that's why they dropped it on this, I mean, certainly wasn't an industrial town, it was a seaside town. Yeah. Isn't it crazy that, like, because I, look, my dad was in the Air Force, but he wasn't a flyer, you know, he was a doctor and he was stateside, but just to know that at some point your dad had to learn how to fly a plane? Well he didn't fly, he was a navigator. But even that, just to be in a plane, it's crazy. Did he talk about it?

No. It's wild. They never talk about the war. All he told me was, you know, they have these chin hats they used to wear. And he said, well, you know, with all the flak coming up, I used to sit on mine. Right. I went, dad, it's a tin hat. He goes, it was psychological. So, psychological. Pete Slauson That's the one war story about how your dad protected his balls.

John Larkin Yeah, exactly. Pete Slauson It's important. John Larkin Oh, absolutely. Pete Slauson So, when does the first break come? What are you doing? John Larkin With film. When does the first break come? What are you doing with film? The break came, I did a lead on a television show, a one-off, a play. It was watched by a very important casting director in London called Miriam Brickman. She brought me in to meet this director called Lindsay Anderson. Okay. And at the time, I was working at the Royal Court.

Yep. And we were doing a modern dress version of Twelfth Night. Okay. So I arrived for the audition, I meet this man who is this extraordinary looking guy, very short, got a Roman nose, piercing eyes. Yeah. And he goes, so Malcolm, what are you doing? I told him.

Yeah. You know, I'm doing a, you know, modern dress, 12th night at the royal court. I was so proud to have gotten to the royal court, one of the most avant-garde theaters. Yeah. And he said, oh, it sounds awful. I went, really? Anyway, we spent like half an hour gossiping about how bloody awful the royal court was

and how pretentious they all were. And I'm kind of going with it and enjoying it. And not forgetting I'm there trying to get a part. And there was a bit of a lull in the conversation. And he looked at me and he said, you do realize, of course, that I am a director of the royal court. And I went, oh, what? No.

I suppose I'm not going to get this part then, am I? He went, not necessarily. Anyway, he brought me back again and I got it. And that was If? If. Big movie. It's one of the great movies of that period. Yeah, I mean it's on the list. It's on the list, yeah. And that was you. Yeah. It's all you. Well, it's an ensemble piece, but he's the main rebel, and it was extraordinary working with him. And this is like, it's really like at this time,

like it's on the, it's like the arc of that British New Wave thing, it kind of happened, right? So it's the tail end of it. The tail end. It's not kitchen sink. This was, you know, Lindsay Anderson was absolutely, you know, one of the great directors. And he only made five movies. It's not because he was a movie maker so much as that he did the most brilliant stage work.

And it was all at the Royal Court. Yeah. Which was really pushing the envelope. Yes. An art theater. Yes, totally. Taking chances. It was always taking chances. They did Look Back in Anger, which changed Western writing.

Yeah. I mean, it was completely changed everything. And, you know, they did very avant-garde stuff. And Edward Bond stuff, and Pinter started there. Pinter. All those guys. Yeah. Joe Orton. Oh, my god. Yeah.

Joe Orton was one of my favorites. Yeah. Loved him. I did the first revival of Entertaining Mr. Sloan at the Royal Court with this wonderful actress called Beryl Reed. And Beryl Reed was a vaudevillian. She'd grown up in vaudeville.

Yeah. But she's also a brilliant actress. Yeah. And we came to do this. Now she couldn't remember her bloody name, you know. She was getting on a bit and she loved the brandy. And I remember the very first preview that we did. Yeah.

She has to go on before me. I'm standing at the back in like a silhouette light. She goes on, switches the light on in these stiletto heels and goes, Mr. Sloan, this is my room. And she got the biggest laugh. But just her walking in stiletto heels, the whole place, it was like a huge eruption of laughter that completely threw me.

I was checking my flies. I was thinking, is my dick hanging in there? What's going on? I had no idea. And in rehearsals, she was fighting, trying to learn it, and all the rest of it, when it came to the audience in, she was on. Yeah. And she was absolutely brilliant.

And some of those, like the people that came up in Vaudeville, in Burlesque. Peter Sellers. Yeah, is that somehow or another, because of who they are naturally, talented-wise, but if they're comedians, every moment's going to be funny. Their physicality, like there was a need, I think, on those stages. Well, you know, you see the person and immediately you smile. Yeah. Immediately you're ready for it.

And so whatever. I mean, and the way she moved in these stilettos was, I mean, it looked like she was taking a poop or something. I don't know, but it was absolutely... No, that was it. That was the physical comedy. So now is it my misspeculation that because of the nature of England and of the UK in general that when you do a movie, it's going to be seen.

Oh yeah. Oh yeah, they don't make many movies there. Yeah, and it was insulated in a way. It was insulated. It was also a really important movie because it stuck a dagger into the heart of the sort of, you know, the ruling class. Status quo, or yeah, yes. So that it was about public school,

which is their private school, which is where the knobs send their kids to be educated, to go out and administer the empire. That's basically why the public school came into being, and we're going back 600 years and some of them. Right. And so to have a revolution at the end,

and to have these rebels come out on top was sacrilegious. It caused enormous. I mean, you would not believe it. And to have these rebels come out on top was sacrilegious. It caused enormous, I mean, you would not believe it. They were fighting for survival like they're kind of doing now. It's like the end of a breed. Right. It's sort of... So that brought it in.

And that was 68? So that was where everything was kind of. 68, Sorbonne, there were kids on the roof with machine guns, all the anti-war demonstrations, the gay pride. There were demonstrations about everything. I mean, I remember walking down Bayswater Road and I look up and there's Glenda Jackson and John Gielgud, the head of a march, who waved me over. And we're there marching for the Panoffs, which were these ballet dancers that were interned in Moscow.

Wow. So, that timing was kind of amazing. It's interesting because I think, I guess guess the arc of the new wave was actually still pretty rebellious, right? It was very rebellious, but it was coming to an end. It was coming to an end and suddenly the most, the popular movies were starting to be like more, you know, middle-class kind of dramas. Right.

Oh, okay, so it was almost like the middle-class won. They kind of did. And they always do, by the way. You know that. And the Brits are brilliant at it. Any rebel, they will envelop and embrace and smother and have him as their own. Well that's what's interesting when I was thinking about the timing of A Clockwork Orange because that is the most aggressive satire of Fuck You to the entire system.

It was almost like, it was a final word almost To the apocalyptic vision of what the possibilities are. That was really special. You know, the sad thing when it came out for me was that they got hung up too much on the violence, so-called. Yeah. And I'm like, the violence, the violence is, there's no blood, if you want violence, go see Peckinpah. Yeah.

I mean, that's a ballet of violence. It's absolutely brilliant. Played straight. Yes. I mean, like, I think the other thing that people don't realize about A Clockwork Orange, it's a satire. Satire. Black comedy.

Yeah. Not one person laughed. When I came over to New York and the first week it opened at Cinema One on Third Avenue, I stood at the back, not one laugh. And how could you not laugh? I mean, the brilliance of like Kubrick is that, you know, he had you in a Charlie Chaplin hat on purpose. The whole thing was, you know, those were clown outfits.

Of course. Yeah, exactly. By the way, you know where they came from? That was my cricket gear. Because one night I was over at his house having dinner. Yeah. And he's walking me back to my car in his driveway. Yeah.

And he goes, what do you think you'll wear? Yeah. And I went, I don't know, Stanley, you know, it's a little futuristic. And he goes, what have you got? Yeah. I went, what have I got? I don't have a few. I've got jeans and a T-shirt and my cricket gear in the car. He went go get it

He goes now. What's this? I went well that you know That's a protector the cup he goes well wear it on the outside. Yeah And that's that's that's how the whole thing the white is the cricket here But they just and and to tell it it's hilarious. Yeah, so exactly in cricket here. But they just, and to tell it, it's hilarious. Yeah, exactly. In his mind, he's just like, it's hilarious. Yeah, I know. And everyone took it so fucking seriously.

And you know, the whole thing of, you know, the singing in the rain scene, you know, we're sitting around trying to figure out how to do this, and I'm saying, Stanley, look, we've just done the, we just shot the end. It's this satirical, wonderful transformation of this guy who's in the bedroom You know yeah, yeah, yeah, I was cured all right. Yeah, and with that knowing look yeah I say Stanley we come in here. We throw bottles through the window

I beat up this old guy, and then you know rape his old lady. I mean come on But it's not clever is this we can't do that suddenly we're going from the stylized to the naturalistic right it's just we there's no way so we literally sat around for four days yeah he changed the furniture every time I came in I'd see the Harrods van I went oh he's changing the furniture again. Yeah. And then I was sitting there and he walked past me and he goes, can you dance? And I was so bored by this. I went, can I dance?

I'm singing in the rain. Straight into it. Wallop on the beats. I look over at Stanley, he's literally crying, laughing so hard and he stuffed his handkerchief in his mouth and He waves over me put me in the car and he drove off and he bought the rights right there No kidding and it took a week then to do the shoot the scene And that was all in that the the sort of ironic just juxtaposition of that thing

It you know when you tell it, it's hilarious. And it's clearly meant to be comedy, but it's so fucking dark. Yes, but how incredible that you would have the juxtaposition of this euphoric song that we know, we see Gene on the lamppost, slap, slap, blap, and it's euphoria. And then you'd see him, and he's, you know,

beating a guy and raping. Yeah. Yeah You know, it's no wonder Gene Kelly just you know, did he lose his mind? Well, I think that satire in general if it's good is always Completely misunderstood in the broadest sense. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's true And and you know, cuz I just watched that that one the new one with Nicolas Cage to the dream scenario. Yeah, well, that's true. And, you know, cause I just watched that one, the new one with Nicholas Cage, the dream scenario. Yeah, yeah. That's a very tight satire. Yeah.

No one gave a fuck about that movie. No. Yeah. And it's like, and another one that I don't think gets enough credit is, which did do okay, but I think it needs to be- Which one? Tropic Thunder.

Oh yes, yes. Good Lord, wow. That's a brilliant fucking satire, but it's a very specific thing to do it correctly and commit to the tone because it's going to be misunderstood. Well, yes. I mean, the one that I totally love, and I guess it is a satire, sort of, was the movie of Fargo.

Yes. I have to say, that is my all-time favorite movie. It's unbelievable Well, it's a it's a work of genius. Totally I watch it like once a year twice a year because the Coen's Know how to ride this line their sense of humor is so specific and really fucking amazing and you know the Performance. Oh my god, it's just I mean one of the great great Oh my God. I mean, it's just, I mean, one of the great, great cinema performances of all time. By McDormand. Oh yeah, it's unbelievable. She is an amazing artist.

It is like kind of a comic character. Yeah, so it is totally, but it walks that fine line, which all great characters like that do. So it's like Alex in clockwork. Yeah. Or her in that. Or Tony doing, you know, his thing. Tony. Tony Hopkins.

Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I like to think that he wouldn't be done that if I hadn't have done Alex. Which one, in Silence of the Lambs? Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think Alex changed everything. I mean, and people, and I imagine, like, when I was watching some of Son of a Critch, the

TV show you're in, I thought, like, wouldn't it be a great sketch if they let you reprise Alex as the grandfather? Oh my God, I'm going to ask Mark Critch to do that immediately. Just for fun. Yeah. I'm gonna ask Mark Critch to do that immediately. Just for fun. Yeah, I mean, and by the way, I just love that show and I think it's beautifully written and that's why I really wanted to do it. It's very sweet.

Yes, well, it's sweet but it's not sentimental. There is sentiment in it, but it's not sentimental and every time it gets too sickly, there's always boom. Yeah, they pull the rug. Yeah, and I love that about the writing. I just Having so much fun with that. It's a Canadian show originally, right? It is Canadian. How did the script get to you? I believe it came to me from these Irish casting directors who'd seen me do this show in London Called truth seekers. It was a series that was on Amazon. And she said, well, send it to Malcolm.

And Mark said, oh, don't even bother. He'll never do this. What were they basing that on? It's not like you don't like to work. No, no, I work a lot. They just didn't think that I would be interested to go to Newfoundland and do something, which was small. But the truth is, it's all in the writing.

The writing, I've read four scripts, called my manager and I went, make it work, I'm doing it. I don't care. Just work it out. That's sweet. Yeah. He must have been thrilled. I was just so over the moon and I go to this place, I had no idea what I was letting myself

in for. Yeah. And it's a place you should put on your bucket list. Yeah. It's another place, a bit like Liverpool. Yeah. You don't pass through. You have to go.

That's the end of your destination. Yes. It's the most amazing place. It's pretty, right? It's yeah, it's pretty, but I wouldn't say it's like chocolate box pretty, like Cornwall or Devon or something. No, like rugged. It is rugged. It's like Ireland or Scotland. But it's the people that make the difference.

So one part of Canada I haven't been to. Well, you should try it. It's incredible. It's the furthest landmass in North America. To the east? To the east. It's the closest landmass to the Titanic. Interesting. And it's right under Greenland.

But I love that the Newfoundlanders are so proud of their place. They'll say, you know, Thanksgiving. And they go, you know, it was the Newfoundlander that invented Thanksgiving. You go, what? That's so weird. And then Mark will send me a whole thing about, yeah, it was. And you know, the Newfoundlanders, yeah, they're the ones that built, you know, the skyscrapers in New York. You're going what? Oh, yeah, they worked on the big schooners and they were used to going up the mass. Oh, they could take the heights

Oh, they're the ones in those pictures of those guys sitting on yeah Remember that? Yeah, and then new fees. They say slang or is that okay new fees? They'd say things like oh oh, I love Poppy, goes, well, you know that band, Kiss? Yeah. Well, that's a Newfoundland band. And you go, well, no, he goes, that's Gene Simmons, he's married to that Shannon Tweed, now she's from Newfoundland. So that makes it a Newfoundland band, thy marriage.

You love it. Yeah. You love it. Yeah, it's great. But going back to like the small community in England, in London, I mean, were all the guys around, like, you know, like were Alan Bates and Richard Burton and Courtney and Finney and what was it, Oliver Reed? Oh, Ollie, I worked with Ollie. That guy, he's another one that seared his being

into my consciousness with Oliver, right? When I was a little kid, and then when I got a little older, it was you as Alex. Oliver Reed, you know, was a really fine actor that he doesn't really get the credit for, I think. But the problem with Ollie was that he was an alcoholic. And he never ever Cleaned up got out from under it never did well. It seems like they a lot of them were

Well, it was a thing the generation before me. Yeah, well all piss off. Yes, they'd all Richard Harris Oh, yeah Harris Burton all those Peter O'Toole You know, they'd be straight into the pub and it was a great, a manly thing. You'd stay up all night drinking and then end up at the set at nine o'clock the next morning and do your scene. How the fuck did they do that?

How did they? I have no idea. But I heard that they'd sworn off when they did Beckett. It was Richard Burton and Peter O'Toole. And they said, right, at the beginning, we're swearing off booze, we're going to do the whole film without a drink. Yeah.

Which they did until the last day. The penultimate day. They went on the piss and they just went crazy. Yeah. All nighter ended up, all O'Toole had to do was walk down the nave of Canterbury Cathedral in his armor or whatever it was. He literally walks down there kneels and just topples over and they couldn't even wake him. They had to cancel for the day. Yeah, I mean, like, what you hear about these guys, and then, like, you know, at the peak

of it all is this other character in Laurence Olivier, who, he never gets included in any of the riff-raff stories, but he just, he just covers above all of it. Well, you know, he was sort of untouchable. He was Sir. I got a call from my agent. Oh, yeah. And the agent said, Sir wants to see you. And I knew immediately who Sir was. And I went, what about?

It's a pin to play. He wants you to do it. I went, oh my god, this is great. Yes. I went to meet him. And he said, we play lovers. We're I went to meet him. Yeah, and he said we play lovers, you know We're very much in in in the closet But I think we'll have fun and I want you to do it. I went yes

Absolutely. And so it's me Albert. I know that Alan bet Alan Bates. Yeah who I adored I worked with him three times, and Helen Mirren. Yeah, oh yeah. And Olivia, you know, I tell this story, it's funny. So we, and the whole thing is that, you know, I'm his lover, I'm like a rent boy, and he's a posh, right, eating square house, and Alan Bates comes around threatening, accusing me of having an affair with his wife, Helen Mirren. So, um, obviously this guy I play, you know, it doesn't care what it is, as long as it's, you know,

it's just an opportunist. Anyway, so, um, but it's deeply, has to be in the closet, otherwise it ruins the play. The first read through, 60 people there, all waiting. Olivier plays it like he's swinging a handbag in high heels. And Alan Bates and I were like, sort of giggling, I mean hiding, I was thinking, wow, we have got no play here. If he does it like that, you know, it's incredible.

So, and it was made for television. So we kept saying to the director, a young Michael Apted, who went on to do, you know, he's a really good director. Big director. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cole Miner's daughter. Yes.

We kept saying, Michael, have you told sir yet? He goes, no, tomorrow, I'll tell him tomorrow. He was terrified. So at the end of the week, we're watching him, and he's whispering in Olivia's ear. And he goes, of course, dear boy, I always play it big, and then bring it in! And we're like, oh, thank God for that.

And of course, Alan, Bate, who is a generation above me, was saying, you know, he's so brave, Malcolm. You've got, I mean, Olivier is the bravest. I went, oh, come off it. He's an old ham. You know it and I know it. Come on. He goes, no, he is so brave.

That is brilliant what he did. We should do that. I went, what what go on and do it gay I mean are you out of your mind what are you talking about it because it's so brave we should push ourselves push our performance and go into her I went oh come on Alan yeah so we went out there he has to bang knock on the door I open and say yes I open I open it and went, yes. Yeah.

We burst out laughing. That was the end of that experiment. Ha ha ha. Oh, but Alan Bates, what a fabulous, fabulous actor. And did Olivier bring it in? Oh, he was brilliant. Yeah, he did. But get this.

So we were rehearsing in the Oval. Yeah. For lunch, we'd go to this little pub and sit in the little snug bar, and we're sitting there. And it's freezing out, you know, and we're sitting there, we've ordered a pork pie. Yeah. And half a bitter, right? And we're sitting there. And so a lorry driver comes in, opens the door, comes in, and he orders his lager, whatever, he turns around and he goes, oh, come on, fucking hell, it's the old clockwork banana, isn't it?

And I went, oh, God, he goes, oh, come on, no, you've got to sign this, sign it, come on, here, here, use that BMS, have you got a pen? Yeah. Yeah, sign it. And I went, oh, God, I don't know what to say, whatever. There you go. And then he looks, he sees Alan and he goes, oh, it's Tom Jones. I didn't want to tell him that it was Alan Finley,

Alan goes and rather irritated signs it. And then he's doing it. I look at Olivia and I see this sort of look, you know, I said, well, excuse me, but surely you want the autograph of the greatest ever living actor. And he goes, well, yeah, who's that? And I went, this is Sir Lawrence Olivier. Yeah.

And he looked and he went, nah. Got up and left. Alan whispered in my ear, we'll pay for that this afternoon. I went, you will, I don't have any scenes with him. Oh my God. What about Michael Caine? Do you know Michael Caine? I do. We had the same agent for a long time. He's a, you know, he's phenomenal really, isn't he? But not a huge stage actor, right? No, I mean, he was, he did movies. He was a movie actor.

All movies. He's a movie star, you know. It's unbelievable, that guy. He really is, he's amazing. Tipped my hat to him. And he retired, I guess. I think they brought him out, you know, wheeled him out for one more.

Oh yeah? I don't think you ever retire. Yeah. If they suddenly dangle a really good part, you know. You're gonna do it? You're gonna do it. Now, wait, now, this is just a personal thing, because I've done a really good part, you know. You're gonna do it? You're gonna do it. Now, this is just a personal thing, because I've done a bit of acting,

and it's very, what do you do with all that fucking time on your hands, like in the trailer? I never, I'm bored for one second. No. I mean, not for one second. What do you read? I read, no, I mean, I love to gossip and chat and have fun. Yeah. You know, to go pull a few legs, you know,

of actors who are taking it too seriously. And I just think, I'm still getting paid for this. I mean, seriously, somebody's gonna wake up and go and pull the rug, you know? But I just love what I do. It's so much fun, I try to tell my kids who want to be actors. I say, you know, it's just so much fun

pretending to be somebody else. Yeah. That's all it is. They want to be actors? Yeah. How many you got? Well, I've got two that want to be actors. Yeah.

And they're 15 and 17 now. Yeah. Was that with the- Finn and Seamus. With Mary? No, this is my present- Oh, okay. That I've been with for 34 years, Kelly. With Mary, no, I have Charlie, who's this wonderful director, and Lily, who's the only

daughter and my oldest child. And she's got three daughters, so I have three granddaughters. Wow. Who are great. I have Mary on here, and we had a a great chat and she spoke very highly of you. I love her to death and she was so sweet. I did a little Western with James Paxton, Bill's son. In fact, I was gonna do it with Bill.

Yeah. And, you know, but so when they got it together again, I said, well, let's get James to do it. Yeah. Bill would be so thrilled. And I asked Mary to come and play a really important part right at the very end. Yeah.

And she did. And I wondered how the hell that would be, because we hadn't worked together since we did Holiday at the Old Vic, directed by Lindsay Anderson on stage. Oh, wow. And it was sort of a long time ago, I think, 87 or something. Anyway, it was literally like putting on an old pair of slippers.

Wow. It felt so comfortable working together. I know we both really loved it. Oh, that's sweet. Yeah, because, like, you know, if you can do that, if you can maintain the friendship and the love with an ex, it's good for everybody. Well, it's been up and down, I would say.

Yeah. And it's been a long time, but we have these two stunning children. Yeah, and you get along with Ted? Yeah, I love Ted. Yeah, nice guy. Yeah, he's a very nice guy. I think I once said to Mary, you know, we have t-shirts at our house that says, I love

Ted. And she went, well, why would you do that? I went, because we love Ted. And we do. He's the greatest guy. His kids are great too. Yeah, well, that's nice that you get along with him. Yeah, it's a big extended deal.

Yeah, yeah. And you live here? Yes, I've lived here longer than I lived in England. Do you miss England? No. Yeah, it's funny, I talked to Bernie Toppin and he doesn't give a fuck. He's been here since the 70s. Yeah. No looking back.

That's when I came, late 70s. I agree, I mean when I go there, I love it. I love going I came, late 70s. I agree. I mean, when I go there, I love it. I love going to London. It's such a great city. And I love working there. I'm doing a vampire movie at the moment. I'm in the middle of it.

And I just have so much fun when I go back there. But can I live there? Jesus, no. Yeah. Why? No. Well, the weather sucks, one thing. And you realize, you know, it's a small little island. Yes? No. Well, the weather sucks, one thing. And you realize, you know, it's a small little island.

Yes, yes. It's very provincial in many ways. But you know, I love a lot of it. It has great actors, great theater. Yeah. I mean, I always love working with British actors. Yeah, yeah. Because you know you're going to get 100%.

You worked with O'Toole on Caligula, right? Yes, yes. Was he Tiberius? Is that who you played? Yes, exactly. So you got to work with him. Was that the only time? I got to work with him the only time. The only other time I met him was

that I was playing small parts at the Royal Shakespeare Company. And there was a party. This is 1964 or five. And there was a party, this is 1964 or five. And there was a party, bring a bottle up in Hampstead. We were all the young actors from the Royal Shakespeare Company, and suddenly there was a hush in this apartment. And I looked over and there was this Greek god.

And it was Peter O'Toole with the flaxen hair, the cigarette holder. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This big smile. Yeah. As thin as a rail, with the big boots up to his knees, jeans tucked in, looking like this incredible movie star. Yeah.

Mr. Charisma. Yeah. There he was, Lawrence of Arabia. Yeah. And when I worked with him, There he was, Lawrence of Arabia. Yeah. And when I worked with him, I had a lot of fun with him. Well, that was like, if I remember right, at that point, Tiberius was rotting away, right? Yes, he got syphilis. He was dying.

Yeah, yeah. Now that, like, I have not watched it recently, but when I watched years ago in Caligula, I must have been in high school when it came out, but there's, you know, that, the integration of porn into that movie. Yeah, well, listen. I'm glad you mentioned it because there's an amazing story that goes with this. As a young person, the blowjob in the middle of that movie,

it changed my life. Yeah, well, for you or on screen? Well, I mean, everything. Yeah. Because you don't see it coming and then it definitely comes. So get this, you know, of course, Guccione's version of the movie was sort of put together in a shambolic way, then inserted like 40 minutes of pornography. Yeah. And, you know, with our names about it.

You didn't know about it. No, and we couldn't do anything about it. You're contracted to me. You know, Gore Vidal pulled his name off. And I went, thanks Gore, I can't pull my face off. So we were screwed. And that was like the peak of your thing, right? Had you just moved here?

I wasn't living, no. Not yet not yet before I did time after time. Yeah, I Did time after time as a kind of catharsis moment to get away from Caligula actually. Yeah but so Recently three or four years ago. Yeah guy is looking on the internet this nerd guy in Czechoslovakia four years ago, this guy is looking on the internet, this nerd guy in Czechoslovakia, and he looks and he wants to kind of buy a thing on the internet. And he looks and he finds Penthouse. Yeah, sure.

Fire sale, buys it. And they go, what do you want to do with all these cases, the boxes that are in this storage in the valley? Send somebody down, he goes, oh, that's all the negative from Caligula. This guy, Tom Ngovan, transferred it all onto digital. They recut the movie as the movie we made. Oh, really? It's phenomenal.

I mean, it is so, it is the movie we made, and I'm going, I wasn't going crazy. It's like amazing. For instance, Helen Miller's performance in the Gucci Oni version is 17 minutes. In this version, an hour. So the whole last 45 minutes has never been seen. You just dumped it. You didn't even bother.

You know, they didn't bother to. So it does work as a movie. It works absolutely and it's amazing. And it's going to be out in August. Really? Yeah. Well, that's kind of exciting. Yeah, it's really exciting.

And it's going to open at the British Film Institute. And I'm going to go over and talk to him. And who's recutting it? This guy, Tom, Tom Nigoven. He's absolutely did an amazing job. I mean, he deserves all the applause. Did he find the script? Is that how it worked?

He looked at the script, but you know, Govidal's script is crap, I'll be honest. I mean, I had to bring in a playwright from London to help me. You know, I was really, I mean, because I was in every frame of it, I had to really try and make sure I survived it. That was my big thing,

and just trying to get through it without stumbling too badly. So I brought over this writer called Ted Whitehead, written this play called Alpha Beta, with Albert Finney and Rachel Roberts. And he came over, spent a month with me, and we'd work at night. Yeah.

And then Guccione would let you make the changes? Oh, Guccione, yeah, because he'd fallen out with Gore. Gore had taken his name off it by this time. Yeah. But we had this director who was very, well, he was way left of communist. Yeah.

Yeah. Oh yeah. Really an anarchist actually. He was like, and the first thing he said to me, if we do not screw Penthouse, we fail. I went, Tinto, let's just try and make a good movie. You know, let's not worry about who the producers are. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, uh, Gore Vidal told me when I asked him, who's paying for this? Is it a studio movie? No, can't be, can it? He said, it's Gore, it's Bob Guccione. And I went, oh, the pornographer? He said, Malcolm, just think of him

as one of the Warner Brothers. Yeah. Everyone was getting the money. Yeah, yeah. That's fucking great story. Well, now I'm excited to, I'm gonna be sad that the, you know, the big blow job's not in there, but.

You can still see that. You know, get the other disc, but to see it as the director intended it, it's really fantastic. Well, now that I know that about the director, I'm liking, I can look at it. Well, the sad thing is Tinto Brass, who I had enormous respect for,

he's sadly got dementia and he doesn't really know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He won't be able to know anything about it. But I know, because I knew him intimately well and I really liked him a lot and we did it together. Yeah. I know that he would really respect this cut. Well, that's good. And Thomas did a fantastic job. Yeah. Changed the music, this kind of animation at the beginning, gives you kind of a little history thing going on.

And so you kind of get the context of it. Yeah. And it's really... The context of the film or the story of Caligula? Where Caligula is, where his father was this great general was this great, you know hero Yeah, a Roman hero and and Caligula as a child went on with the armies and he was called little boots Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and you know, it's really a fascinating story interesting and you know, it it's true it's really amazingly true. Yeah. That all those sets in Caligula all the stuff that's going on the feasts and this and that. I remember it being very almost like a play. Yeah. In terms of

the sets. It's sort of big. Yeah. I mean it's and they were massive sets. Oh they were yeah yeah. And you know it's Danilo Donati designed it was Fellini's designer Yeah, an absolute genius. Yeah. Oh, wow. And what do like what was the relationship with Bob Altman? Oh, I Love that man. I don't know an actor that doesn't love. Yeah. No, I well I knew Bob in 1970 We smoked a lot of weed together. We partied. We're in Britain? No, you come over to London, I'd get a call, he'd go, Bob's in town. I went, you mean you're in town?

Yeah, Bob. Yeah. Now what you doing kid? What are you doing tonight? We're going to this restaurant. Why don't you come by? And I'd go by and it was always, I'd come out of his place wherever he was, and it would always be dawn was breaking. I'm like, oh my God, I gotta stop this. But we had so much fun and wherever he was, when he was in Rome, I was in Rome. I introduced him to Guccioni at some party I had at my villa. And Bob came and he went over, he goes, I said, Gucci Oni wants to meet you. So he walked over to him and he goes,

hey, hey, Mr. Gucci, I like your shoes. Yeah. I went, no, it's Gucci Oni, it's not Gucci. Bob immediately put him on the defensive. No, I just did a screening, I presented a screening of McCabe and Mrs. Miller like last month. Was it a good print? It was okay.

My buddy had an original print from the 70s. So it was a pretty good print and there were some things about it that film nerds know that I didn't know about the color. But it's such an amazing movie. I love it Yeah, it's a great movie. Oh my god. It's one of the best I mean I watch it quite often with Julie and Warren. Do you know Julie? I know her I know briefly. I don't know that well. I just watched shampoo again. That was something incredible Yeah, and how Ashby's you know that guy? Ah, brilliant. I loved him. I met him.

Yeah. Peter Sellers? I knew him well because, as he liked to say, you know, Malcolm, we're in a special little thing together, you and I, because we starred in Stanley Kubrick movies. He was always, that was to him his favorite movies. Oh yeah. I mean- Strangelove?

His performance. Oh yeah. His three- Performance is? Yeah, his three performances. Oh, I I mean, Strangelove. His performance. Oh yeah. His three. Yeah, his three performances. I think more, isn't it? He played Mandrake, he played the president. Yeah. What else? Oh yeah, and Strangelove. So it was three love. Yeah. That performance. I mean, you know that all that stuff was ad-libbed. I mean, he improv'd that, the Nazi salute, the genius. But Scott, I mean, was fantastic. George C. Scott, unbelievable. He's unbelievable.

But he hated Stanley. I had dinner with him. With George? Yeah. He was doing a play, and I was. I got a note saying, hey, it's George C. Scott here. Do you want to have dinner tonight? I went, yes, yeah, I love you. Yeah, and he just bitched about stanley at all times. He couldn't stand him

Why well, I I think I heard a story about that that That I I think what the issue was is that I don't think george c scott knew it was a comedy necessarily. Yeah Well, probably stanley didn't know you know, right, and that, you know, the character, you know, became this great comedic character. If you hire Peter Sellers. Yeah, it's gonna be a comedy. You know that somewhere down the line, it's gonna be funny.

Yeah. And Peter had such a take, you know, he's, I remember laughing with Stanley and saying, I know why you love Peter Sellers. Yeah. I said, because you just asked him I know why you love Peter Sellers. Yeah. I said, because you just ask him to do, you know, funny voices, he'd give you 40 characters, and you'd just pick one.

And he sort of went, yeah, it kind of was like that. Well, that was the amazing thing about being there, the Hal Ashby film, that it's so muted, but so brilliant. Heartfelt, it's stunning. It's a stunning performance. It's stunning. It's a stunning performance. It's unbelievable. It's his...

I mean, he had to do all the other stuff to get to that. Yeah, because he actually was able to inhabit the character to the point where he had this weird kind of shallowness to his eyes. Yeah. Like he was in it. Yes, absolutely. And it enabled everyone to project what they believed., was that it was it's one of the great performances And was he as a person was did he did he land in a personess like, did you know?

Oh, no, he was he had you know, he was hot and cold. I mean he every time They'd want to go to dinner. I'd get the call. Peter wants you to come. I went, okay, okay, yeah, okay. And we'd drive out of London, some three-star restaurant. But Peter then would sit there at the table with his head on the tablecloth, out of it. You know, he had, you know. Up and down, bipolar-y kind of.

He was totally bipolar. And he would be out of it. And I'll tell you a really incredible story that happened because this agent we had, we all had him in common, Dennis Selinger at ICM in London. He had Michael, you know, Sean Connery, all of them. Peter, myself. It was his sister's birthday,

and so we all met at a private room in Julie's restaurant in Penzance Place. We all get there. There's like 20 of us, right? And this huge long table, and he, Dennis pulls me aside, I've put Peter next to you because you know, you know, he's, you know, he's, I went, don't worry about it, it's fine.

I'll look after him, don't worry. So, you know, he put his head down and boom he was out Yeah, so we're all chatting away. I'm chatting to the guy next to me was a producer or something I don't know and we're talking and laughing We're halfway through the thing and suddenly one of the girls One of the wives and he jumps up on the other side of the table and goes Oh my god, my diamond stud has come out of my, oh, I've lost my diamond stud. And everyone's like, what? Oh my God, looking on the floor,

suddenly Sellers sits up, comes to, does 20 minutes stand up as Clouzot, accusing everyone of stealing the diamond. It was absolutely, I looked over at Michael Caine. I've never seen him laugh. He was crying. He almost couldn't take a breath. It was genius.

And I suddenly went, this is what it must have been like, you know, to see Charlie Chaplin. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was amazing. And then did he go right back down? Did he put his head back on the table? Well, I brought this girl with me. She wasn't my girlfriend. It was amazing. And then did he go right back down? Did he put his head back on the table? I brought this girl with me.

She wasn't my girlfriend. She was a girl that I was working with. Yeah. Peter had said to me, he goes, you know, Malcolm, I can walk into a room of 40 women and I can go up and they are all, I can go up to one of them who is poisoned for me and I'll walk straight up to her and I'll ask her to marry me.

I'm like, get out of here. Oh my God, Peter, come on. So there I was with Lynn, who I was working with in this movie and I brought, and Peter goes, oh, are you with her? I went, no, no, she's just a friend. We're working together. Just brought her because she wanted to meet

all the A-listers. And he went, oh, come back to the apartment. I went, yeah, yeah, next thing is they're married. Yeah. How'd that go? Uh-oh! Cut, two years, go by. I'm walking into my Maison, you know,

the one on Melrose, when it was there. I walk into Melrose, there's Lynn. She jumps up, waves, and, hey darling, big hugs. She goes, oh yes, I'm having lunch with my lawyer. I went, oh yeah, really? She goes, I don't say anything, but I'm leaving pizza. I can't take it. I went, oh, I'm sorry, didn't know that. That weekend, he died.

Oh my God. He died. And there's pictures of her in the widow's weeds, you know, getting off the plane in London. It's like, if it had been another week. And you knew. I know. You knew that. Yeah. So now when you worked, like you obviously took this Son of a Critch as, because you loved it.

Yes. But what drives you to do these things? Like, cause you did the bombshell and that was great. Yeah, that was great. I loved doing that, that was fantastic. You know, I did a movie with James Fonda, Moving On. Yeah. Wonderful, Paul Weiss. Yeah.

And Lily Tomlin. Oh, yeah. Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. I've got a couple of movies to come out, and I did a movie with June Squibb, 92 years old when she played the lead in this movie. Yeah.

So, you know, what an inspiration she was. Yeah. And she's fantastic. Yeah. It's called Thelma. It's lead in this movie. So, you know, what an inspiration she was. And she's fantastic. It's called Thelma, it's a great little movie. That's coming out. I go to Western, it's called Last Train to Fortune. But my, I love going to Newfoundland. I can't wait to get back for the summer.

I just think it's the greatest show. Are you gonna shoot a new season? Yeah. Yeah, that's the idea. And there's three up now? There's three seasons. We hope to go into a fourth. We haven't heard officially, but we feel that we will.

So it was a Canadian show, and now it's CBC. It's the biggest comedy show they've got in Canada. And now the CW here has picked it up. They picked it up with Lionsgate. That's Another partner. Yeah. And the CW, you know, they're retooled and kind of doing some cool stuff. Yeah. So they came in as production partners. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then you're shooting a new season. Yes. Well, we hope to. Yeah. I think we've been told officially. Okay. Everyone thinks we're going to. Okay.

Never take it. Anything for granted. Yeah, yeah. Well, it was great talking to you. You too. Thanks for doing it. Did that, was that an hour? Hour plus, hour 10. Get out of here. Yeah.

When you're having fun. Yeah, it was great. I loved it. Thanks for doing it. You're great. Right? Wow. What a great guy. Son of a Critch is on the CW app or at CWTV.com.

New episodes are out. And yeah, hang out for a minute. Addiction doesn't discriminate people. In Canada, for instance, we lose 20 people to drug overdose every single day. So if you're listening to this and you've experienced addiction, just know that you're not alone. CAMH is the Center for Addiction and Mental Health, and they're hard at work creating better treatments and interventions for anyone experiencing addiction. CAMH is revolutionizing our understanding of the brain and transforming patient care by knocking down the barriers that keep people from getting help.

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at CAMH.CA slash WTF to help CAMH treat addiction and build hope. That's CAMH.CA slash WTF. and build hope. That's camh.ca slash WTF. From fleet management to flexible truck rentals to technology solutions. At Enterprise Mobility, we help businesses find the right mobility solutions so they can find new opportunities. Because if your business is on the road, we want to make sure it's on the road to success. Enterprise Mobility, moving you moves the world. People, we have another episode of WTF origins coming up on the Full Marin this week. If you want to catch up, you can listen to the most recent origins episode about my stint on LA Radio with

the Marc Marin show. There was one show that, you know, I accidentally dropped a fuck, which is not a big deal because we're pre-recording it. Yeah. But then Jim dropped a fuck. Which is not a big deal, because we're pre-recording it. But then Jim dropped a fuck to counter my fuck. And then we just started dropping a lot of fucks and a lot of shits. And just like, we just started doing it like crazy. Just getting laughs from laughing Andy. And we finished the show,

and I'm like, you're gonna take those out, right? You're gonna beep them. He's like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so we leave. And then I gotta go to Vegas. All I know is I'm in Vegas, and I'm doing a show at the Palms, and Miesha's with me, and we're trying to have a nice time.

And I don't remember that comic's name who texted me. I do, I know who it was. It was Spencer Dobson. Spencer Dobson, right. So he texted you that he was so proud to work on a show that had the balls to do what you just did. Right. And I'm like, what happened?

And what happened was. The fuck version, not the bleeped version. And all I'm thinking is like, I'm finished. I mean, you know, this is it. This is the bit, you know, I'm like, a show has just aired in Los Angeles for two hours. That's just a fuck, a fuckfest. Now I know.

It's not a good kind of fuckfest. No, no. To subscribe to the full Marin, go to the link in the episode description or go to WTFpod.com and click on WTF plus. And a reminder before we go, this podcast is hosted by Acast.

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