WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1534 - Neal Brennan

Episode Date: April 29, 2024

While watching Neal Brennan’s new Netflix special, Crazy Good, Marc learned new things about Neal despite knowing each other for 30 years. They sit down to figure out how things have changed for them, whether they are truly feeling better in their lives, and why they are still pursuing some version of success they can’t quite pinpoint. Neal also shares some insight he received directly from Bono that might answer some of their questions. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

From the world of Sonic the Hedgehog, a new hero arrives. I am ready. Is there anyone stronger? No. Tougher? No. Funnier? I do not make jokes.

I make warriors. Knuckles now streaming only on Paramount+. Yes! It's easy to have a love-hate relationship with your internet provider, or in some cases, just a hate relationship with constant price hikes, shoddy service and non-existent customer service, there's plenty not to love. But Oxio is the internet provider that loves you back. Not only does Oxio have fair prices, they have prices that actually stay the same as

long as you stay with them. No, seriously, the price gets locked in and they throw away the key. No hikes, no hidden fees, just one fair and fixed price. And Oxxio knows you depend on the internet because they do too. So they make sure to deliver reliable internet with lightning fast speeds. And when their customer service says,

we understand, they mean it. Visit oxxio.ca for internet from a provider that actually gives a damn and use the promo code WTFmark at checkout to get your first month free. That's Oxxio.ca promo code WTFmarc. All right, let's do this. How are you? What the fuckers? What the fuck buddies?

What the fuck, Nick? What's going on? It's Mark Maron. This is my podcast. Welcome to it. I know that the sound is a little bouncy. I know that the room I'm in has a bit of bounce to it, but this is where it has to be done I'm not home. I'm away. I'm in New Mexico. I've been here for several days probably the longest trip

I've taken back home in in a bit. How are you doing? What's going on with you? Everything alright today? I'm gonna talk to Neil Brennan Now look Neil Brennan's been on in the past. Okay. There was this one episode We did a while back that he insisted that we do not air it. We had a fight about that it was it was something about how I Interacted with him and you know, I Understand it. I understood it in time. I don't think he was wrong It's weird what you do understand in time and in retrospect, you know, you behave a certain way and

You don't think there's anything necessarily That bad about it or you you kind of dig in and say like no I that's not true or whatever and then you know after you know five years to 40 years to maybe 50 years go by You're like, you know, maybe I maybe I was kind of an asshole maybe I did I did behave badly man what can I do about it now not much own it accept it make amends where possible but we worked through all of that we did it actually on a live episode of WTF in his way back it was like episode 287 and then he came back when he did his special three mics, he finally decided to come back and do another full WTF talk and

that was on episode 917, that one we were, he was okay with it. This one, this particular episode today is a little different It's more like it's this one of those episodes where it's just two comics two friends just hanging out talking about life Talking about our problems talking about his new Netflix special which is called crazy good Neil Brennan crazy good which he talks about life and his problems and There's a sort of interface, an interaction, a symbiotic thing. I don't know if it's necessarily always proactive but we've sort of grown to know how we engage and it's pretty deep. There's a lot of similarities so this is a pretty,

it's a good conversation. It's a thoughtful fuck It's a thoughtful fucker thoughtful fucker that Neil. Sorry my chairs making noise this week I'm in Montclair, New Jersey on Thursday May 2nd at the Wellmont Center Glenside, Pennsylvania near Philly on Friday May 3rd at the Keswick Theatre and Washington DC on Saturday May 4th at the Warner Theatre Then I'm in Munhall, Pennsylvania outside Pittsburgh on May 9th at the Carnegie Library Music Hall. That haunted place. Cleveland, Ohio on May 10th at the Playhouse Square,

Detroit, Michigan on May 11th at the Royal Oak Music Theater. You can go to wtfpod.com slash tour for all my dates and links. And those links will take you right to tickets. Yeah and you can come. You never know when this is gonna be the last one. Obviously I haven't made any specific announcement but because of the shooting of this TV show I'll be doing for Apple with Owen Wilson I'm gonna move some dates and there's a

possibility I'll be moving them till after the election and that possibility because some of those dates are in the south I've had to tell my manager my booking agent well look we'll see what happens in November and if it's still safe if the divided nature of our country hasn't gone to such an extreme where there might be, you know, entry checks at certain states, I will see how that unfolds. Everybody will see how it unfolds. And it's sort of a pressing thing, isn't it? I mean, I've kind of detached in a way.

I mean, I read the news, but I'm just trying to maintain some stability around what I can and can't do things about. You know it's just a it's an awkward time politically. It's just everyone's sort of you know waiting for the right guy to die and that's a bipartisan thought. I don't know if I've said it before but you know that's the other thing that's happening with the age thing. You get to this age and again I'm not old but, that's the other thing that's happening with the age thing. You get to this age and again, I'm not old, but I am on the other side of a lot of things and you're sort of like, well, you know, I made it through a lot.

I guess I'll soldier through this for as long as I can and see what happens. Hopefully, hopefully it doesn't happen at the hands of an ideologically driven lunatic or force of some kind and maybe I'm being paranoid but maybe I'm not so being here in Albuquerque with the old man and spending time with them it's just it's weird there's weird moments because you know I got to be honest with you and I've talked about this before that I you know know, I think there, a lot of my ability to see life comedically, and certainly through the lens that I see it

through, is because of the way I connected with my father. He was erratic, sometimes angry, sometimes distant, sometimes absent entirely, needy in a way, and intrusive, were the good qualities. But he, you know, he was engaged with life. I mean, there was, there's an excitement to mania that makes you, you know, excited when you're a kid, you know, if it's not directed at you in an angry way, but if it's sort of like, you know, hey, let's go build a thing. We're going to let's, let's go, you know, whatever he got obsessed with, you know, whether it was dogs, cars, skiing, hats, who knows the intensity of focus and excitement when someone is manic and they're your dad, you know, it gives you, you know,

it makes you feel alive and that was sort of how I was wired and then when they're sad And needy and completely draining emotionally then you know that's how I was wired as well, and then you know my mother was just off trying to you know not eat but But now as time goes on you know with him fading out I find that you know he still knows me He's got you know certain memories that are odd and certain memories, you know, large memories are just gone, but certain other ones like, you know, people's faces, people's names, you know, what he did with somebody, where he was, you know, born and that. Yeah,

it's very peculiar what stays and what doesn't, but we were actually had that moment, you know. Well, I mean, I make jokes. I guess that was the point I was trying to make. He can still, he still registers everything. And, you know, I was at his house with his wife and his wife said we just took him to the doctor and he's perfectly healthy. And I said, oh my God, how long is this going to go on for? And got a good laugh. That's a pretty dark joke and my dad Got a good laugh out of that and I guess that's a that's my audience Got a dig deep but there have been pretty touching and brutal moments we were driving down here in the

Northwest Valley and Literally driving by where you know, I grew up where the house was and I remember really driving by where I grew up, where the house was. And I said, do you remember being down here? Do you remember living down here? And my father said, I never lived down here. And I go, yeah, we did. We lived right over there.

He goes, no, we didn't. I said, yes, yes, we did. We lived down here for years. I was mostly brought up down here. He's like, nope. And then we drove around this bend, which was near my house, and back in the day,

there used to be a herd of buffalo that was on a field, not far from where I grew up, owned by the Usseries, and everyone knew about it. It was down the S-curve on Rio Grande. There was just buffalo there. And that was unusual.

Not a lot of people have pet buffalo, but there was probably about five or six buffalo, big ones, right at the end of my street. And when we drove around that bend, I said, do you remember the buffalo? He goes, yup. I'm like, all right. Well, I guess animals stick.

I guess, you know, animals, buffalo, hard to forget a buffalo. That stays in your mind. My entire childhood and the life we lived in the house down the street, gone, erased, wiped away. I was thinking about how many decisions I make on a regular basis and how for me, very few of them are no brainers.

I agonize over pretty much every decision, this is true. But when you're running a business, the no brainer decisions really help. And when we started running WTF like a business there was a clear no-brainer. Stamps.com. Not only was it a no-brainer to have Stamps.com as a sponsor, it was a no-brainer to use Stamps.com for all our mailing and shipping needs. It streamlines your operations and makes your business more efficient. That frees up your time to focus on the bigger decisions.

Mail checks, invoices, legal documents, books, and everything you need to keep your business running and connect with every major online marketplace and shopping cart seamlessly, which is great if you sell stuff online. Make that same no-brainer decision that more than 1 million other businesses have already made with Stamps.com. Sign up with promo code WTF for a special offer that includes a four-week trial plus free postage and a free digital scale no long-term commitments or contracts just go to stamps.com click the microphone at the top of the home page and enter code WTF

all right so here's what happened when I came out here because as I said it feels like I am slowly in the process of returning home And I hope alive But but it feels like that's kind of gelling in my mind as a future decision just because My thoughts about being here shifted There was a time I was coming here and I was thinking, what the fuck am I gonna do here? And then I thought, well, why don't you just do what you do everywhere else.

Everyone's got their patterns. You've got these small little circles of life that you run around in. Occasionally you get out of them. I guess that's called a vacation or something you have to do for a family member or friend that you're annoyed by, but pulls you out of your patterns. And lives are relatively small sometimes when you really think about you know

what you do on a day-to-day basis and now my thinking is shifting you know I'm starting to think like what wouldn't I do here am I aren't I getting to that point where I can just hang out walk around you know go walk along the ditches and you know go up to the mountains go up to Santa Fe hang out, walk around, you know, go walk along the ditches and, you know, go up to the mountains, go up to Santa Fe, hang out, look at art, think about things, talk to friends. Can I just do that where I grew up, where I'm wired, where my heart and spiritual sense of self, whatever that may be, and psychology is sort of integrated into this landscape. It's very weird driving around these streets because like I always drove around

these streets and it's very familiar. It feels, uh, it's beginning to really feel comforting and grounded. So I guess here I am just selling myself and telling you there will come a time where I will return here dead or alive. Am I going to come back here dead? That's a good question. What am I going to do with my body? What are they going to do with it? Decisions, decisions, decisions. So I get here. I'm flying out on Southwest and who's there

waiting? Tim Heidecker, the, the lovely and amazing and talented Tim Heidecker is in the airport he's coming out here to shoot something they're shooting a lot of stuff here he's doing a movie with I guess Marlon Wayans who I like who I have a good time with who I did a movie with but me and Tim kind of flew together got to talking hung out a bit and then you know he's staying down the street and that was fun so I knew Tim was in town and then I decided to sort of contact this small comedy club here called Dry Heat Comedy Club

which operates out of the Box Theater and I was like hey you know maybe I maybe I should come down and do a set you know if I'm going to return home it might be nice to have a place to work out occasionally so on Friday and Saturday night I wouldn't did sets at this small club that's part of it. It's in the annex of the Box Theatre which is an improv theatre. Good audiences, you know 40 or 50 people just working on the stuff staying engaged. I need to stay engaged. I might need to stay engaged in the future but it was a nice nice. It's a nicely run little operation with a lot of local comics. Saw some of the local cats,

some good, some almost good, but that's the way it is. It was weird being in a room where you kind of like, you know, it's kind of, it's trench comedy. You're just in it, you know, it's not like this is a show business town, but it was a nice venue, good audience, nice vibe. And then, you know, Tim wanted to go eat over at Los Poblanos, you know, where I eat all the time and stay, you know, and I was like, all right, spend some quality time with Heidecker. He even came to the second night of the comedy with me.

Yeah, it's great. It's just gonna, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna move back home at some, at the point where it just becomes, you know, show business adjacent. And then all the people I kind of know or I've interviewed will actually be right here in my hometown with me.

Yeah, that'll be nice, right? I don't know. So look, Neil Brennan. You know, I knew Neil when he was a kid. Way back, I started comedy with his brother, Kevin, back in the day. I remember when Neil was a door guy at the Boston Comedy Club. And I think the first time that he got mad at me

during that interview is because I still saw him as that, despite all his success. But right now, he's doing great comedy. And he's kind of evolved a lot as a person, puts a lot of work into himself, as do I, kinda. Self-awareness comes more as you start to break down. But this was one of those conversations where clearly Neil and I are definitely

on a different level of communication than we used to be. And it's pretty nice. It's intense, it's deep. It can be exhausting for I think probably both of us, but it is, you know, we do like each other, which is good. His Netflix special, Neil Brennan, Crazy Good, is available now and this is me talking to Neil back in the garage. Warriors! Knuckles! Now streaming only on Paramount Plus. Yes!

Addiction doesn't discriminate people. In Canada, for instance, we lose 20 people to drug overdose every single day. So if you're listening to this and you've experienced addiction, just know that you're not alone. CAMH is the Center for Addiction and Mental Health, and they're hard at work creating better treatments and interventions for anyone experiencing addiction. CAMH is revolutionizing our understanding of the brain and transforming patient care by knocking down the barriers that keep people from getting help. Sometimes it feels like there's no hope if you're feeling

the impact of addiction in your life. Maybe you experience it directly or maybe indirectly, like if you're dealing with the effects it has on your family or friends or coworkers. You don't have to surrender to hopelessness because CAMH is confronting addiction head on through groundbreaking research. And right now you can partner with CAMH

to build a future where no one is left behind. Help change mental health care forever. Donate at camh.ca slash wtf to help camh treat addiction and build hope. That's camh.ca slash wtf. Okay, so if we're talking about when we're done, like, because I have a thing in my head where I want to be done. There's some part of me that thinks like, that's what I'm working for, to be done. And a lot of people say like, well, you can never do that. And I'm like, I don't know. I don't know if that's true. Maybe, but look, I've been hammering away at this thing.

I do a new hour and a half of standup every year and a half without, always turnover. I haven't stopped working. And it's not that there's diminishing returns. I've done all right for myself. But you know when you're at the club and at this comedy club and the old guys come, there's a cutoff. Yeah, there's a cutoff.

Yeah, there's a cutoff where it's like, oh, he done got it. He doesn't know what he's, he doesn't, he can't do it anymore. Okay, well I'm not gonna be that guy. Yeah, exactly, you don't wanna be a guy who doesn't, who can't play anymore. Well, I'm definitely not that guy and I'm not that old,

but I would like to shift my life to to have a little space And I know that's maybe something I should be able to do anywhere, but I it's not happening What do you mean by a little space the ability to to get out of the fucking race? Cuz even though yeah, even though I've determined my own life. I am the author of my own fate here You there's no way not to feel competitive, there's no way not to feel like you have to bust your ass all the time, you have to keep up with something,

and that just like becomes like, fuck it. It's also, it gets a little undignified after a while. How so? Well, it's just a bit like, am I getting into a, am I driving to get into a food fight? Yeah, right. Just like, I'm still caught in this ecosystem of approval. And it's like, dude, you gotta just at a certain point

be like, I'm good. And instead of it being conditioned on your last hour. Or comparing yourself to other people. Yeah. Yeah, I guess I'm in that, but the good thing for me is like, I've always been to the side of it. I've never been a star.

Right, but close enough. So you know what I mean? Like, you know. Sure, sure. Close enough. I've talked to all of them. No. Yeah, but it's more, you're- I'm a guy.

Yes. You're not, you're pretty fucking successful. Sure. But there's still part of me that, and you know this, because you know, you somehow- You of all people. Yeah. Choose to maintain relationships with hugely successful people. Which, uh-

Well, that's less and less, but go on. Go on. I can't do it. That's a whole other podcast, yeah. It's not that I have anything against it, but I'm just like, I'm pretty, you know, despite what anyone thinks, I'm a fairly sociable guy, I'm not a bad guy, and when I'm in social situations,

I have a good time and everything, but I'm not seeking, I'm a fairly sociable guy, I'm not a bad guy. When I'm in social situations, I have a good time and everything. But I'm not seeking, I'm not going to cigar circles and strip malls, I'm not playing golf. I'm not doing any of that shit. Yeah, me neither. But the sad thing is that means that our big social outing is the whole way of the fucking comedy star, where you can check in, get the pulse,

say hi to some people, be excited, be like, oh. I was talking to Bobby Lee and Demetri Martin last night who'd never met, which was funny to me. And Bobby was saying like, this is where I get my fellowship. Yeah. I was like, yeah, it is, but a lot of the people there are mentally ill.

Sure, we're all mentally ill. I mean, I've known that for years. But I didn't quite notice clearly until I realized that when I came up in the 80s, there were a lot of guys that were just, you know, didn't want to be famous. They just wanted to stay ahead of the tax man and child support payments and keep a low profile doing comedy.

And I'm like, oh, it's full of criminals. And then I realized like it's full of just mentally ill people. Yeah, totally. Yeah, I'm not, there's it's full of criminals and then I realized like it's full of just mentally ill people. Yeah, totally Yeah, I'm not there's nothing to complain about we have no complaints. I've yes we have no complaints Hi, we do we we we complain a lot. Do we should have no complaints? That's the one thing I fucking hate is when people say about my comedy. It's like you're just complaining. Name me a stand-up That's the job. That's the job.

The job is complaining. So it's just a matter of, can you get people on your side about it? How charming are you? That's, well, of course. Can you hide it? But also maybe you don't like my complaining. Maybe you prefer some other types of complaining.

Yes. Fuckers. Yeah, sorry. Yeah. I don't know, man. So yeah, we're all mentally ill, but so this turn that you're taking, I read an interview with you somewhere

where it was very sort of decisive. I don't know, maybe it was in one of the trades where you were like, I'm gonna disappoint my mentally ill fans because I feel better and they're just gonna have to take me like this. Yeah, well, I'm also, well, again, it wasn't that... Why you having to do that? Am I making that up? Well, it wasn't as confrontational as you're making it.

It was more like, I did two depression-ish specials, and then for Netflix, and then I was, I found myself, felt better, through a variety of different things. I was asked at DMT, it's MDMA. And I wasn't, I didn't wanna talk about that anymore. That's lasting better? This lasting better. Yes.

Yeah, sorry. Yeah, four years, three years, four years? Oh yeah. So, I don't know, so far so good. Because I'm doing that new bit, which is a great bit, and you know it's a great bit. Pfft. About the babysitter.

About like when I was a kid. Yes. And it's turned into really a kind of a monsterly, a monster kind of odd turn of a bit. It's evolved. But you came up to me and you're like, oh, you're going full trauma, huh? And I'm like, what the fuck, what am I supposed to do?

No, I don't, because it wasn't, you were always kind of toughing it out. Right. Right. And I was sort of, the blocks and three mics were more, I don't, I'm upset, I'm kind of toughing it out, but I'm in a bit of pain, and let's explore that. And then I kind of, I can't even say that I did, I did enough therapy and I got through it.

I did a lot of therapy, I did a lot of medication, and then I was going DMT and that flushed me out. Huh, well no, I mean, I'm not, the joke that I'm working through with that bit is that, when you identify the trauma, it's up to you to decide which one had more effect than others. And it's surprising.

Absolutely. And then it has a good turn at the end, but it doesn't matter. I just thought you were like, oh, you're Mr. Healthy. You're gonna talk to me in that tone. Like, you know. Oh, full trauma Marin. Well, I it doesn't matter. I just thought you were like, oh, you're Mr. Healthy. You're gonna talk to me in that tone. Like, you know, full trauma Marin. I guess it's-

Well, I've Marin'd you. It sounds like I Marin'd you. Yeah, you like to do that. Sounds like I took the mirror out. You like to do that. And bounce it in. Oh yeah, it's really hard to get me. It's really hard to poke at me if you know me well.

Well, you do seem like hard to get, but then it doesn't, and then you forget that it doesn't take much. No, what happens is I feel it go in, and it lands really hard, but over the years, I've gotten pretty good at acting. Pretend it didn't. Isn't that our job?

A great job. It's part of our job. Yeah. Well, the whole job is acting like we don't care if they don't laugh at the punchline. Oh my God. It's all very casual. Yeah, but that zone of living in the not laughing,

that's tough. Well, yeah, it really hurts. My buddy, Bajan says it's like, you get into a car accident every night. Yeah, yeah. And you just get used to it. Yeah. But it's not, it can't be great for you. And then George Burns lived to be 100.

So I don't know. Wasn't really taking risks, George. True. But you know what I'm saying. Yeah, I tanked one the other. I kind of tanked on purpose after, is it Ian? Ian Edwards, yeah. Yeah, he was killing and I was like,

I wasn't in the right mindset. I was in the OR Yeah, he was killing and I was like, I wasn't in the right mindset. I was in the OR and I just went up and I'm like, you know, and I had that attitude where it was just fuck you and I'm gonna dick off. Even though that last guy put the work in, I'm gonna dick off and I felt it. I got what I deserved. They gave you dick off energy?

Yeah, a little bit, a little bit. And then I left and it was sort of like, why did you do that? Yeah, drive home and think about it. Yeah, why did I? Well, that's again, that's- I'm still thinking about it. Right, but you've gotten better at not doing that.

Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah, I mean, I don't like doing it. Well, sometimes you gotta do it to find a new shit, but that's not the way you work necessarily. That's not how I work. No, it's all written. I watched the entire special, all 58 minutes of it. Thank you.

Thank you so much. No, it was very good. I enjoyed it. I learned things. What'd you learn? Go on. Don't throw me a softball. Yeah, am I laying down on the guillotine going,

tell me what else you thought of it. Well, the plan I had was like, here's what I learned. Yeah, am I laying down on the guillotine going, tell me what else you thought of it. The plan I had was like, here's what I learned. I learned that you feel better, that you know a lot of famous people and you know how to fuck. Oh, that's funny. Well, I mean, I'm risking the fucking thing is the,

again, it's the two sex compliments I've ever gotten. Yeah. Because I'm sure there'll be lots of blogs about how I'm bad at it. Oh, come on. Who knows? From people you fucked? Who, God bless, who knows?

And the famous thing is that was more just the, I was defending all comedians basically. No, I got what you were doing and I got, I liked how, I don't know if I liked it, but you were very diplomatic about Joe. You wrote a line, but you made sure that it was gonna be funny, even though you were saying, why are people turning to the clowns for moral guidance?

Yeah, why, how bankrupt are other categories of leadership, religious, corporate? Pretty core bankrupt. Yeah, entirely, government, that finally someone said, has anyone asked the clowns what they think? It's the dumbest point of view that like, what does transgender issues, has anyone asked the guy who played Rick James

what he thinks of transgender? Well, you don't have to ask him. He's gonna guide the cultural dialogue all by himself. Well, again, I would argue that's a failure of the culture itself. But what do you think that is though? I mean, it is a failure of the culture itself, but I mean, you went, you know, you talked a lot about,

you know, TikTok influencers and these people that I'm way out of the loop with. I feel that's the other thing about getting older is I'm like, I'm detaching somehow. Yeah, you can't care. You can, I just, I really don't. I don't care. I say I care about TikTok, I don't. I don't, I'm not on there.

But you do, you do enough to observe it. Yeah, I do it enough to observe it. I have a girlfriend now, I realize there's no point being on social media. How long has that been going on for? A year. How's that? It's great, we can talk about it.

But it's been, I realize there's no point being on social media if you have a girlfriend because it's just all I'm doing. I was just waiting for girls to hit on me. Oh really? Yeah. Because I find, I don't do that. What I end up doing is I, it's become whatever TV was

when we were younger. Like I'm a victim of, not so much a short attention span, but I can flip through reels on Instagram and be pretty entertained. And be on an emotional roller coaster, you got the animals, people saving them, then you got a guy from another country cooking something, you don't know what it is.

Then you can indulge your jealousy with a standup clip of a guy that you don't like killing. I don't have too much of that, I don't have as much of that as of a guy that you don't like killing. I don't have too much of that. I don't have as much of that as I used to. I don't think that way. It no longer is jealousy. It really kind of goes right back to me

and going, I gotta tighten up some shit. I'm not like, fuck that guy. So it's more just, it's more. A means to beat myself up. Great, fair enough. That's usable, you it's more. A means to beat myself up. Great, fair enough. That's usable, you can use that. Hit it. Yeah, I don't know.

So yeah, so that was the, my point was. Dumbfounded by that. My point was, I don't think it should be our responsibility to guide society. But that's, that's Quick Bay journalism's fault. Agreed. And you know, and also also, I still can't, I can't really fathom the tribalization of the business,

that there is this ideological, there's a group of quote unquote comedy fans who never shut up, and they don't know anything about comedy. And they're just serving as this sort of like, this tidal wave of kind of like homogenized thinking around what comedy is and what liberals are and what woke is and all this other shit.

And it's just bothersome. That it's just like, they're an organized trolling entity that supports a handful of comics and a way of thinking about comedy. And they're aggressively trying to take over the country. I would largely agree with that. And the problem with that is like the pantheon of comedy is fragmented and show business is fragmented

and now it's just a fucking free for all. And that's why certain people with the loudest mouths who proclaimed out of the right way of thinking just take over culture because they're assholes. I've thought about this on the way over here because I had a feeling we'd talk about it. Doesn't it remind you in some ways of Kinnison, Dice and Eddie Murphy though?

I guess, but the difference was then, show business was only a few blocks. And everyone was gunning for the same prize. So when Dice did Madison Square Garden, which he will talk about anytime you talk to him. And I love the guy, I really do like Dice. which, you know, he will talk about any time you talk to him. have accumulated on TikTok. So there's no, it's not a hierarchy thing, but the status of it is fragmented. Like I agree with it, but I would also agree that you've benefited from a bifurcated market.

Did I? Yeah, I think you benefited from, you're not for everybody, but everyone that was possibly gonna like you found you. Now, that's true. Sure. You know? Which I don't think that's any different.

I'm not saying- You didn't do the garden, but you did, I don't, you did the beacon and you've done like other- Yeah, I'm not, I'm not, that's not my complaint. My complaint is that the worst, you know, seem to amass the most. I'm very specifically troubled by the hack need and ridiculous idea of anti-woke. And I'm like, it canceled. It's like, it's hack at this point. It's also just entirely untrue.

I know, but it's like this branding thing now. I agree. And it's crazy. It's like, that's the edge? I mean, you did jokes in your special. I'm doing jokes now that are profoundly fucked up. Dark jokes. But we're not advertising.

Right, that's not like, we didn't tag it with like, so come and get me. Yeah. Yeah, there's no, the cops should be here any minute. The woke police are coming to get me. Yeah, I don't wanna play that game in terms of like, I don't wanna be Vince McMahon, I don't wanna be a wrestling promoter.

And people that do, you know, enjoy, you know, it's, have fun. I guess here's the big problem is that there is a certain school of comedy slash cultural criticism that is enabling morons to think they're smart. And you know, I think that's the biggest problem with culture, is that there are people that are fundamentally sort of uneducated, not that great at critical thinking

or even rational thought, that will believe just about anything if it's delivered to them with enough force and something they can relate to. And then they just move through the world, confidently, you know, spouting bullshit and working they can relate to. And then they just move through the world confidently, spouting bullshit and working against the common cause. Yeah, I guess, yes, I agree with that. Now, who's to blame for it

is a way longer, more complicated discussion. Is it? Yeah, because I think it begins like in, it's like an Adam Curtis documentary where it's like, you wanna know the root of this? Yeah, I I think it begins like in, it's like an Adam Curtis documentary where it's like, you wanna know the root of this? Yeah, I think that'd be great. I don't think Adam Curtis would waste his time. But if Adam Curtis did that film,

it would be about the power and money in conservative propaganda. In pretending to be under attack, yeah. Yeah, and playing the victim card, but also making the truth a little slippery and putting forth conspiracy theories as intelligence. Yeah, it's a Huckster's world right now, but I think that if I have any empathy about it at all,

it's that I do think that a lot of comics are being played to fit in, appropriated by the sort of right-wing momentum. By, you know. You think otherwise. Well, they're making a lot of money, they don't give a shit. But the whole anti-woke thing is really just a right-wing talking point.

It's a wedge issue. And now there are people that we know who have decided that is their ideology. And I see that as being played. Yeah, I would agree. But they're making good money. And that's what's really important. And I hope the damage isn't

as massive as you and I think it's gonna be. It's gonna be bad, dude. I've shifted my angle on fascism from, you know, like identify it, push back to like, hey, it's gonna happen, what's your plan? Yeah, yes, yes. It's, with climate change, same thing. It's like, you better learn how to swim,

get to high ground. What's your plan? You know, like, I know a lot of you are like, I'm going to leave the country. Like, no, you're not. You're not. No, you're not. And where are you going to go? And here, seek comfort in the fact that there's probably somebody in

Russia or Hungary that has your exact job and they're doing okay. Yeah. And also where they're not going to let you in. There's visa rules. There's, there's, I mean, that's what it's, we could do, but the climate change thing is going to be, every border is going to be closed. When's that going to happen? I believe, what year is it?

2055, I'm betting. I should be dead. We won't have a lot going on. We won't have very full schedules. If I turn out like my dad, it won't matter what's going on. It sure won't. Ideally. Did I not know this?

Do you have nine siblings? Yeah. I thought it was like five. Mm-mm. It's far more serious. Yeah. Oh my God. Because he said that on the special.

And like, I knew, I think I know three. I thought there was only five. But there's more where that came from. Yeah. And you're the last one? Yeah. It's so the last one. Yeah. It's so funny. Like I was talking to Jimmy Carr about,

he's got nothing but good things to say about you. Yeah, he's a great guy. But no, I was talking about how like you were sort of, yeah, as opposed to, you know, not being a victim, but not being someone who's actively working on themselves in the way you used to, that there was a, the way you talked about trauma on the special, like, you know,

that everyone's got trauma, you know? And I was sort of like, well, this is kind of a new angle for the guy who reads trauma. Like, when I see Neil, I'm like, that's trauma in its skin. Incarnate, yes. That's a, that guy's 90% trauma, yeah. I'm trying to be less that, honestly. Yes, that's a that's that guy's 90% true trauma. Yeah

I'm trying to be less that Honestly, I mean like I'm trying to be less that it's not fun. It's not The audience doesn't like it, but they don't like what a guy who reads his trauma They want a party animal so I'm trying to just be more I and I also don't really feel that way anymore Right a party animal they want I have fun, they want a life of the party. They want a charisma machine. Not my audience. Not your audience, not my audience, but I'm saying like most comedy audiences.

Do you want to be the life of the party? Is this the dream? I wish I had a sunnier personality. Yeah, we can't do, I don't think that's. No, it's too late for us. There's nothing we can do. But I would like to get people who thought I was just trauma before.

And. You see the fun part. Yeah, the fun part is right. And I would like to be more than trauma. And I do mock the, I'm mocking the kind of monetization of it. I think the issue we're talking about with all of this stuff is monetization in that.

Yeah, I have it on a post-it on my dashboard. It just says monetize because when people use that word, how do you monetize your trauma? How do you monetize your pain? How do you monetize your cancer? Yeah, and there's everyone's, it's competitive monetization. It's ideological monetization. There's a, I listen to a podcast that I really like called Conspirituallity, right?

Right. And it's about- That's all of it. Yeah, and so it's about conspirituallity. It's about conspiracy theories and religion and new age philosophy and all this stuff, and sort of debunking it all. And then they do six minutes of ads for vitamins or whatever.

Or whatever it's for. And it's a bit like, I don't know guys, this doesn't seem, again, I'm a fan, but at the same time, do we not see that this is all? The irony? Yeah, that there is an underlying hypocrisy or corruption. But not like they're selling garbage. I'm just saying like saying you could make a case

that selling anything is selling garbage. Everybody's part of it. Yeah, like, hey, we're gonna show you this GRIF, but, and right after this. Yeah, the funny thing is, like, some guy got on me because I did a couple vitamin ads for Solgar, which is, you know, old hippie vitamins, I've seen my whole life,

and they sent me a bunch of vitamins, and I'll take them, and I'll take fucking vitamins every day. Some guys are like, I can't believe you're selling supplements, I'm like, I'm seen them all my life. And they send me a bunch of vitamins. And I'll take them. I'll take fucking vitamins every day. Some guys are like, I can't believe you're selling supplements. I'm like, I'm taking them. So. Yeah, does that make any better? I'm in this with you. Yeah, yeah, it's like, what is,

I direct commercials sometimes and I won't do social media. I won't do Facebook. I won't do Instagram. I won't advertise anything that. Or in gambling, I won't do gambling on my podcast. Me neither. I won't do dubious things. And I won't do things that I can't gambling, I won't do gambling on my podcast. Me neither. I won't do dubious things,

and I won't do things that I can't sell. I remember we had an incident with the man grate many years ago. I don't know what that is, but I know you can't sell it. I can- sight unseen. I think I had a hard time with the pub trim. Sure! Who would believe that you would ever. But it was so funny with the man grade cause Corolla is early on and Corolla was a

big man grade guy. It's just this piece you put on a grill to cook steak better and they wanted us, they kept pushing, they kept pushing and we were like, I'm not, it's not my people. Yeah. They paid for the ads and I did one and they called in a panic.

Like we, we didn't sell any. I'm like, we told you that. I could have told you ahead of time. We just cut them loose. We didn't penalize them. But the belief thing, I'm back to working this joke, I don't know if I used it before, but that's the other thing about doing as much comedy as we do, is I'm starting to realize,

and you're in the same boat, no kids, small world. The woman I'm dating has a kid. Interesting. Yeah. That's fucking a new half hour. It's five minutes so far. Good for you. So we'll see.

Yeah. I don't, I wasn't expecting any of it. How old the kid? Three and a half. Wow. Yeah. So you got her, what, right out of the breakup? Fresh out of it. How old the kid? Three and a half. Wow. Yeah. So you got her what, right out of the break out? Fresh out of it, yeah, fresh out.

I'm walking her through it. Good luck, buddy. Yeah, no, I- How long did you wait to meet the kid? About a year. Really? Yeah. Well, that's correct.

Yeah, so we're doing it by the, she's a therapist, so we're doing it correctly. Yeah. So, we're doing it by the, she's a therapist, so we're doing it correctly. Wow. Ideally, ideally. We'll see, but so far so good. Well, the point I was making, and then we'll get back to this, is that, you know, I realize over the course of three or four specials that the way I think remains fairly constant. Mm-hmm.

You know, I do grow and I do reevaluate, but the dialogue, the conversation I've been having throughout my entire career of comedy is roughly within a wheelhouse. It is of a thing. You could take a joke from any one of your hours and put it in another one. And it wouldn't stick out very much. Yeah, maybe.

Maybe the level of sophistication. About marriages and women. Sure, sure, sure. And I think I've evolved, but it's sort of interesting that you kind of, but everyone does that. I don't know anybody that doesn't continue the conversation.

It's a stylistic. It seems like this, you, somebody, a very famous musician told somebody that, he goes, I have four songs that I just, I soup them up, I've changed them, but they're the same bass. That's right, someone was talking to Angus Young about ACDC, it's like, it seems like he did the same record

like three times and he was like three. Yeah. 11. Yes. 12. Yes, but it once, and you just have to kind of maybe stay ahead of it. Yeah, the only shift is like, you know, unless I just all of a sudden became conservative or something crazy.

Yes, yes, but it's also I just all of a sudden became conservative or something crazy. Yes. Yes. But it's also people knowing what they're getting, kind of. The belief thing, though, like, no matter what you know and however anyone talks about religion, like, everyone, all of us talk about this, and we think, and it's really not that big of a deal to take shots at religion anymore. People are still a little hesitant to take shots at Islam. But I still, I don't know why, but keep it up.

No, yeah, you're gonna get your head chopped off. Something, I mean, it is a little scarier. Yeah, they actually mean business. Yeah, I used to say that you can make fun of Christians because they're kind of built to take a beating. That's the whole premise of it. That's the whole thing, yep. But the idea is that I've brought back,

and I don't know if I did it on a special I should look, but the idea that if you believe in God, you'll fucking believe anything. So once you've opened that door, you gotta be kind of vigilant about what goes in and what goes out. Yeah, I think you did do that joke. Yeah.

Because I've had that experience where, because of the ayahuasca, I had an experience where I was like, oh, I think I'm in the presence of God, right, or such a creation. Sure. And I do find myself, I won't dismiss things as quickly. I won't embrace them, but I'll be like,

you're into crystals? I don't know. Do you see Scoville's any special? I, no. You should watch it. Okay. He's it. Okay. He's profoundly underrated. He's very funny, Rory.

But I mean, he's got balls. Yeah. Like, I mean, I didn't know it. I thought he was a goofball. No. And then I watched his special, I'm like, oh my God, it's just that he's so affable. Yeah.

That he doesn't- And it's sly, he doesn't- Right, he doesn't assume an edge. Yeah. And he's talking about shit, I'm like so affable. Yeah. That he doesn't- And it's sly, he doesn't- Right, he doesn't assume an edge. Yeah. And he's talking about shit, I'm like, Jesus Christ. Yeah. He's like really doing it. Yeah.

It's something, man. Yeah, he's very funny. He does some good shit about crystals and God and his wife. Yeah. And having crystals. Yeah. My wife is a witch. Yeah, God bless.

I just read Carl Jung's autobiography. Oh yeah. Yeah, he was a witch. Oh yeah, he had a good racket going. You don't buy any of it? No, I like the Jungian trip. I mean, I don't like the dream stuff I don't care for. Like, those guys, him and Freud, it's just like,

yo, fellas, enough with the dreams. But wasn't he the collective unconscious guy? Yeah, I mean, that's pretty big. That's a good idea. That kind of taps into the sort of the big universal hum, the frequency, the wave length. Yeah, and big manifestations. Like there's a story of him and Freud being together,

and Freud being like, I don't know about all this fucking hokum. And a thing in the room immediately like shook. Sure. And then Freud was like, what the fuck was that? And then Young says he knew another one was coming, and another one came, and he was like, I don't know.? And then Young says he knew another one was coming and another one came and he was like, I don't know.

All right, all right, Mr. Wizard. Yeah, yeah, that's the thing is like, I don't know. Well, I can't get into the serendipity thing. I can't do it. Fine, because it's a slippery slope. Well, Mark, there are some slopes are slippery and some are just slopes. Yeah, but that's all depending on your mental

and emotional grounding. Sure, sure, you can acknowledge the slope, but if your brain is of a certain thing where it's like you're gonna start seeing signs everywhere, you gotta nip it in the bud. Yes, and I think another big one is will you drive there? Will you drive to participate in it? That's a big demarcation line.

No, I'm kind of okay with my slightly guarded fear of opening up too much so I don't lose myself forever. Opening up too much to potential energy? No, I- Forces? Look, dude, I was at the comedy store, you know, in cocaine psychosis on the porch, pretty sure that, uh, you know, what is now the, the, uh, the, the sunset, that hotel across the street.

Yeah. The Hollywood, uh, what is it? What's that place called? Uh, the Hollywood Tower. The Hollywood Tower. Yeah. That old building. Yep.

It was gutted when I was a doorman and I, I thought there was an altar on top and it was, someone was going to go down. Yeah. It was. Yeah. And I a doorman and I thought there was an altar on top and it was, someone was going to go down. Yeah. It was, yeah. And I had it all worked out. Yes.

And, and yes. But it took me years to pull myself back. Did it really? Yeah. What, and what, how'd you do it? Well, I got off the blow. I got sober the first time and it took me years to not go into the comedy store and be like, Oh God, it's still here.

I don't know. It's just, you know, once you sort of like violently create a neural pathway through lack of sleep and drug use, you know, you gotta kinda shore it up. Yeah, you gotta get the cock and sand. You fill it in, man. No, you're not wrong.

I guess my thing is like, I had a bit of a thing with that. I had something, right? And then. What, with what? Oh, the signs thing? No, no, no, not signs. No, just like I did a DMT thing and then I did DMT. Once?

Yeah, that's all I needed. And then I had, it was like the DMT experience at 25 minutes and I was in the presence of like the central creation force. And then, you know, slowly but surely your personality come, you like come back to human consciousness. But the problem was about a week later

I had a reactivation. So now I'm just in life and I'm a little bit there as well. Right. And that was like, I thought it was eight months, but it was like a year and a half. Fucked yourself. Yeah. Yeah, fucked myself.

But came back better, came back as the guy. You got a new tool to kind of push that stuff aside, to go like, oh, there's the elf. Well, yeah, no, it didn't even get that bad. It was just like big, I had a 30 trillion foot view, which is too far, too far out. Yeah, you're right next to God. I mean, I was actually past it at one point. Don't worry about it, but it did give,

I am sunnier as I wanted. Yeah. I'm less the personification of trauma, But it did give, I am sunnier as I wanted. I'm less the personification of trauma and I'm grateful for having had the experience. Well, tell me about the ayahuasca. How many times did you do that? 15-ish. Jesus Christ.

With how much time in between? I haven't done it in, I did it about over two years. 15-ish. Jesus Christ. With how much time in between? I haven't done it in, I did it about over two years. So 15 is like basically seven weekends. Okay, so what'd you get out of that? Met, experienced a God force, Central Creation Force, and depression lifted. What you mean like- No more antidepressants. The movie Altered States, did you become- I remember Altered States. and depression lifted.

No more antidepressants. What you mean like the movie Altered States? Did you become? I remember Altered States. Yeah, that was sort of silly, right? It was like he became like a caveman. Ate anti-matter caveman, but then he got back to the origin of life. Yeah.

And he was like, no big deal. Is that what he did? Yeah, he'd been pursuing it his whole fucking career and he fucking went out there, was there at the beginning of it all and he's sort of like, it's nothing. Yeah, I didn't get that. I didn't get that conclusion.

I just got a better sort of minute to minute state to be in. But where does it leave you spiritually? Like you're like, there's something. sort of minute to minute state to be in. But where does it leave you spiritually? Like you're like, there's something. Yeah, I believe there's something, and but I don't need you to not have sex a certain way. There's no rules around that. You don't have a definition. No, I don't have a definition.

And religions don't seem, they seem like perversions. But you're like, you know. Of a basic tenet like there is a central creation force that I experience. I don't give you, just don't kill me. That's my- You know there's something and you know that we're fucking it up.

I don't even know if we're fucking it up. I don't, and again, even the term no, I think I experienced it, but maybe it's no different than the altar on the top of the Sunset Tower. Right. Does look like an altar though, I will give you that. Dude.

That's gonna be a tough one to get over. Yeah, and when it was gutted, I was sort of like, they're building it. Yeah, of course. And now it's just sort of like, they got a pretty good restaurant. Yeah, the better day, it's sort of a scene. Yeah, yeah course. Yeah. And now it's just like, they got a pretty good restaurant. Yeah, yeah, the better day, it's sort of the same. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

All right, so you're loaded up that way. Loaded up's a big word, but yeah. Now, tell me the downside of veganism. I don't think there is one. There isn't? Because I mean, I'm well over a year now, vegan. You look, hey, I didn't wanna say anything, you look really skinny. Do I?

Thank God. I know. Well, I came back from the road and I really, sometimes you go vegan on the road and you just get these places where. Just go to Chipotle, that's my advice. Yeah, I don't mind the vegan places. No.

But like sometimes there's like vegan places where you're like, wow, look at that. And with these onion rings, it took me four days to recover from these onion rings. They were so good. They were good, but they were big and they were filled with batter and it was just fried and just fuck me up. Yeah, there's some places where they,

some places vegan food is like punishment. And the decor is punishment. And they went all natural with the tables and it feels like a soup kitchen. No, I like those places. I like hippie places. Places that are trying to get regular eaters in there by making facsimiles or really decadent vegan food. It just grosses me the fuck out sometimes.

Like, I can't eat at Crossroads that often. I eat there all the time. It's too- It's like rich. Too mainstream for eat there all the time. It's too, too. It's like rich. Too mainstream for you? No, no, it's just very rich. Too corporate? No, no.

Oh, too many rich people. No, no, no, the sauces and stuff. Oh, the sauces. Literally, the food is a little rich. Like I like more basic shit. Okay. Yeah. You're gonna be good, man.

There's a lot of options. Bones, so it's okay for your bones? So far. Do you take a supplement? Yeah. B12? so it's okay for your bones? So far. Do you take a supplement, B12? I take all kinds of supplements. What do you take? I take, I literally just did my pill packs before I got here.

Yeah, what is it? B, D, iron, I can't remember. Just, you know, the ones. But I didn't for 15 years. How do you get your omegas? I don't know. I don't know.

Pumpkin seed oil. Ah. Mm. That's all right. Yeah. I've been doing walnuts. Walnut oil. Yeah.

Great. Yeah, you're gonna be good. Get your blood checked. No, I did. I'm all right. It's all overstated. All the downside and like, you're gonna, what about your protein, don't worry about it.

I'm not worried about protein, I can figure that out. But I was wondering about a few of the vitamins you can't get in a vegan diet, it's hard. I don't know if you wanna ask the body of trauma. B12, B12 is the one. Mr. Trauma, if you wanna, I mean, yeah, I do drops, I think, in B12. Yeah, you spray it. I'm good, look at us. We're okay, if you wanna, I mean, I do drops, I think. Yeah, me too. Yeah, you spray it.

I'm good. Look at us. We're okay, man. Yeah, man. So what? How do you feel about your new special? I like it. I think you dressed well.

Oh, thank you. Yeah. Thank you very much. That's a challenge for us. Yeah, no, I got in some blowback on it, but Jimmy Carr wasn't a fan. What? Did he see your last one?

You didn't like that one? It's okay, just the shirt, right? Just the shirt with the mic on it. I could see the mic clipped on. Well, when you use a sound person, it's that I could get into it. They didn't, it's fine. No, they give you the fucking,

they give you the love for the backup. And then like anytime I wear love, it's gonna fuck me. It's gonna fall out of my pocket. It's gonna pull on my shirt funny. I literally can't even talk about what a nightmare that was. Because it's the lie. If you look at my block special,

the microphone's pointing away from me. I know, dude, I know. It's pointing away from me. And also, that was the only source for laughs was from that microphone. So I can't even talk about what a nightmare that was. Thank you for the dressing compliment. I'll take that from, I mean, if that's all I get from you,

what did I, I fuck, I know celebrities I fuck good. And I said the jokes were good. I said the whole thing's good. And I thought, you know, there were so many I hadn't seen and I've watched you work on this stuff for a while. No, I thought it was very strong. I like that. Thank you.

I am always impressed by the craft. Thank you. And the laughs, I got some laughs. I thought about things differently. Great. Across the board. All good, but I'm just dealing with the things that I deal with, which is like,

I think I finally nailed dressing properly on television my last special. And that's after 35 years. By the way, it's like the thing you wear all the time. Yeah, but it was a little nicer. Was it a jean shirt, denim shirt? It was like a leather shirt. Oh, leather.

I hired a stylist for the first time. There you go. 350? I don't know. Yeah. I didn't care. He came over with a board. Well, the question that I, somebody said like,

what do you wanna, they sent it to him, like what do you wanna know? And I said, will I get a cultural promotion from this? That's kind of all you wanna know. Who asked you that? Somebody asked me what kind of notes are you looking for? And I was like, I just wanna know if it's gonna work. Do you know what I mean?

Yeah, cultural promotion, that's interesting. Like will I get a bump up in venue size and relevance and regard? And this is another thing that I'm thinking about in terms of like, why am I still pursuing this? Dude, you're talking and preaching the choir. Like, I mean, I know, and I talk about it on stage now, I'm like, I know that I'm not,

I'm relevant to the people that care, but there is that point where like, and I do all right, I sell well, but there is that idea that, and you know, and I do all right, I sell well, but there is that idea that, and you're closer to it than me usually, that there's this unexplainable bump. Yes. And I don't think it can be manufactured.

Mm-mm. It's just some people's personalities interface. At the right time. But they interface. Yeah. You know, like, and a lot of them are good at what they do. Yeah. If they can hold on to their place. And the guys you know, and some of Yeah. You know, like, and a lot of them are, are good at what they do. Yeah. If they can hold onto their place and the guys you know, and some of the guys I know, they can hold on

to their place. And I don't know if it's because they're relevant, but if it's just the cultural bump, I mean, sometimes I just don't think I look right. To be. Well, this is another thing where, where I'm going. So you, you've known me, you've only known me 30 years. So you've known me 30 years

and I read traumatized, right? Yeah. So for an audience, I think there's some version of that. I read washed out or whatever, like, whatever. It's like some people walk on stage and the audience goes, our prince is here. washed out or whatever, like, whatever. It's like, some people walk on stage and the audience goes, our prince is here. No, when I go on stage, it's like, here we go.

No, exactly. Yeah, it's Colin Quinn's joke about good looking people and bad looking people. When good looking people walk into a room, people are like, thank God you're here. And when bad people walk in, they go, what? Yeah, now, what do you want? You wanna ruin the party?

Yeah, what? So I think you what do you want? Yeah, what? Yeah. So I think you and I are more in the what category and I'd like to be in the finally he's here. Hey, everyone quiet down, he's here. Yeah, I think I'm- And I don't know if it's possible. Yeah, I think I'm letting that go. Yeah, and I also, it becomes easier to let it go

when you've taken the- When you're tired. Yeah go when you've taken the, yeah, and you've taken the ride, so to speak, in terms of riding your popularity. Well, it hit me after End Time's Fun. You know, like, I took real risks. Was that, that was on the Netflix one? Which one was that?

Yeah, it was the Netflix one. It was with the big sort of Pence blowing Jesus at the the end. Like I hit all the notes of all my heroes that built me and I took chances and it was tight as fuck. It was the best thing I'd ever done. And it came out right as the pandemic began, which was good, because I kind of called it. And I was like, that's the best I can do. And if I don't get that cultural bump from that,

then I'm just, this is where I am. Ian Edwards said about this special that's coming out, he said, if this doesn't work, quit. Not literally, but you know what I mean. No, but I think about that all the time. What do I owe the world? Cause like the special after that, my last one with Lynn, from Bleak to Dark, that was, again, you know, what do I owe the world? Like, cause like the special after that, my last one with Lynn from Bleak to Dark, that was again, those two, the last two, best I can do.

Like I can't. Yeah. I all, but now- Different styles. Yeah. As well. But now I'm sorry, it's me, but like one's a little deeper, but yeah, Lynn directed End Time's Fun,

and then, you know, she was dead for the next one. So they were all kind of under the umbrella of her power. But the only thing I started to think about is like, maybe I gotta be a little cuter. Can be cuter? Because of after? No, I'm just talking about the cultural bump. Like just in general.

Oh, no, I know. You kinda go, does that outfit work? Like, shit shit my glass frame Is it all the background we're crazy the laughs that I'm getting the is it should I talk about? Crypto like how current should I be and when does it look like I'm chasing a sound? You know, yeah, you're like not like I actually think about I'm like I should do with Joe Well, you're one of those guys though, like it turns out I am too, where it's sort of like with Bleak to Dark,

I'm like, you know, I gotta do some physical comedy for real. And I gotta beat it out properly. So that bat bit, you remember that bit, that you're not gonna look at a bat and think like, I'm gonna kill myself. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that whole, the timing of all that,

I gotta figure that out. But you don't want that to look stiff. Cause there are some dudes, they do physical comedy and you're like, he's working, he worked that out. Yeah, oh, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, but you, the beat, it worked. Cause I hit myself three times.

Cause the pause was good. Yeah, yeah. The pause, you know what. But you gotta, well you gotta, well here's the problem though, like if we, you and I are thinking about this. Like, I don't know what you do on the road, you probably do fine, but like what, right?

Yeah. Yeah. I mean you say it like it's bad. Well I'm just talking for me, myself, because I do fine too. Yeah. Well again, right, but think about how well you used to do, which was not that well. But no one knew me. And now you do incredibly well.

No one knew me, and I'm funnier. You're right, yes. I'm not insulting you in any way. I'm just saying like, yeah. My point is that clearly for both of us, whatever we have is not enough. Yes.

For the, for the, I don't know. So how are we, how are we doing better than tell me about your recovery? Right. Yeah. Well, what do you mean? Well, if we're still looking, if the external validation is not at least now we're looking to this idea of like, I'm not gonna take this shit anymore.

Like at a certain point, my pride's gonna kick in and I'm gonna be like, hey audience, I'm as ambivalent about you now as you are about me. It's right back at you. And then what do you fill your time with? Yeah, but. And also Mark, we're doing better than 97% of comedians. The problem is no one looks down, everyone looks up.

I know, but I know in this conversation, for some people it's gonna be like, oh, poor Neil. I totally agree. And that's what people, I've been accused of that before. And I didn't have any, I just got gratitude three months ago. And now I actually think about my life the way other people have looked, said like, what do you, your life's unbelievable.

And I've been like, no, you don't get her and sort of poo pooing it. And it's like, now I actually think my life is unbelievable. As do I, and my producer has to remind me about how great we have it, but there is this thing that you seem to have as well, and I totally believe that. I am grateful, and I know I'm doing good work, but when it comes right down to it,

after I did that HBO special, which did well for them, and critically won the best comedy special in a lot of different publications and stuff, when I wanna do a new special, there's no sort of like, oh sure, of course, whatever you want. It's sort of like, we'll have a look. I'm like, what do I gotta do?

I'm not a bankable commodity. Oh, that you want, well, that's what I'm talking about with the promotion, where it's like. Right. You want, and I want, a frenzy. Or just to say, we trust this guy, he did a great special. He's one of our guys, but we're not,

clearly we're not algorithm shifters. Correct. Yeah, I don't think so. Yeah. And then what do you do? Yeah. What do you do when you're not, you're good, great, whatever adjective you want to put on it,

or as you would call it, fine. What do you do in that situation when you're selling out a sensitive thousand seaters 2,000 seaters once twice three. What do we want? I agree and also do any of the people on the on the floor above us seem completed Me and Jimmy Carr went to see you too and in on the floor above us seem completed. Me and Jimmy Carr went to see U2 in Vegas, and it was a full middle-aged,

we got the middle-aged man package. And. You didn't have any hookup? Yeah. Oh, okay. And we talked to Bono, and we were having a conversation, and Bono said, if I were a whole person, I wouldn't do this.

Yeah. And it's like, yeah, that's so there's, there's a- That's uplifting. But that's exactly right. Like what is this thing that we're going for? The thing I think we're going for is this inner completion, and I think we're never gonna get it from comedy.

I think we've had moments of it. Wait, are you saying it's an inside job, Neil? I think that's what I'm getting at. I think that's what I'm getting at. And as corny as gratitude is, it's helped me a lot with a lot of it. It helps me too. And I do have a lot of acceptance around what we're talking about.

And oddly, you know, like during the pandemic, when no one was doing comedy, and I felt great. Yeah, me too. My thought was, and I don't know if I told you this, my first thought was like, maybe I'm all better. Yeah, well, it's easy to be all better when no one's doing better. I know, that's exactly the rest of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's the second, the verse you cut. No, I put that in there. But I'm saying that, yes, it is. But what do we do when other people are out drawing us or they're doing, they added an arena. I know who I am. I'm opening my sets with that. I'm not an arena act. You know, I could probably do one arena

and bust people in. Vegas on purpose. You know, the- It's so, I'm in these fucking exact same boat. And like if they're there and they see my poster at the win, they're gonna be like, that's a lot, you know what I mean? Like isn't he coming near us? Cause like we're just starting to get into this.

Yeah, I don't wanna see him. Like we'll go see Adele or something. We're having a good time. Yeah. Why would I? Yes. So, so what do you do? Will the, what do you think the end will be?

Well, here's what I know about myself, and I think you should know it too, is that I'm a real fucking comic and nobody can take that away from me. And the work we do is respected by our peers and we know we're doing the best we can do. And we're also intelligent comics, we're people that are talking about things

that aren't necessarily seen as entertaining, were doing the job, at least I am, that I thought I should be doing. You know, I was never, you know, just an entertainer. You know, I was never a feel-good kind of performer, really. And I imagine that's in me, but I don't seem to want to make a shift to lighten my load, because it's just not my nature. So I have accepted the fact that no one is saying about me, that guy got an easy go.

That guy doesn't deserve this. That guy doesn't deserve that. No one can say that about me. And also, like, you know, I was someone, you know. It's where you and I differ. Okay. I can talk about what I think people think about me endlessly, but it's, yeah.

But I don't think it's, I think it's, yeah. The funny thing is about you though, is that you're so meticulous about your approach and no one can write jokes like you. And your presentation is good and you're funny. The thing is, is like, whatever anybody says because of any of our struggles, it's just that thing you're talking about.

There's just this, there's a part of us that is heavy. I know, that's as you were thinking of it, as you were saying this, I thought you can't, you and I, the best we can hope for is a lighter heavy. Right, exactly. Like I can do DMT and seem like, and talk about fucking and all that stuff, and then I did. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But it comes down to what's a more fun version of our spirits. But we also do the thing where we want to, make people look at things differently. We're up there talking about smart shit. And that's really not everyone's cup of tea. It's most people's. I know, exactly.

People don't like tea. Yeah. These are coffee. They want, yeah, exactly. Yeah, they want iced tea, they want sweet tea, and they want Coke, and they want, yeah. Ultimately, we just have to, you know, or I do, I just, I have to have some self-acceptance around it

because I don't like, I'm old already. And like, you know, but the cultural bump, I like that image because like that's across the board because you always think like, when I get offered an acting role, and I have a sparsity mindset because of comedy. Like I didn't grow up poor, but because it took me so long

to find any success in show business, I think I'm like, I gotta do it. But now it's sort of like, even if it's a huge show, you're like, no one's gonna say it. Oh, it's all like being, I remember asking somebody if they would do a show 20 years ago, I was like, would they would do a show 20 years ago. I was like, would you be like Bill Gates' clown?

Yeah. Like if you could just, Bill Gates pays you five million dollars a year to just be his clown. Yeah. And that's not that dissimilar from being on Apple TV. You know what I mean? Like you're basically, you're Tim Cook's clown. And like, unless you're Ted Lasso or on Ted Lasso,

no one's watching your show. But I think we've got to give her, I guess we've got to give ourselves a break and think about that inside jobness. No, but I also, I'm impressed with, I'm thankful for the life I've been given. It's unbelievable. I am grateful.

I do think what I was able to do, going from writing for somebody, writing with somebody, to having my third Netflix special. And no matter what anyone says, even thinking about the naysayers or the haters, it's like, what are you gonna say, man? How? No matter what anyone says, like even thinking about the naysayers or the haters, it's like, what are you going to say, man?

What, how? So still you watch this and you see, why is there still a but if there's any but make it like, maybe I'm not the best performer, but I'm like working at the edge of my ability. Sure. I also, you've got to get the worst naysayers are the ones you make up in your head. Yeah, of course. Of course.

And they don't even exist, really. Like I know when somebody tweets me. Science fiction. Yeah, well it's just, you know, if you have that part of you that just wants to keep you in this place, because that's what you grew up with and that's how you drove through life,

you know, at some point you gotta be like, all right, just give it a rest. It's also, yeah, it's scanning for threats. And then when they're, we've eliminated, you and I have eliminated most threats. Well, yeah, but that's- Professionally and personally- It's our makeup.

Physically, and now we're still- Yeah, ready. We're still looking for them. And preemptively. Yeah, so now we're hallucinating them. Sure. We're hallucinating threats. And we're still looking for them. Preemptively. Yeah, so now we're hallucinating them. True. We're hallucinating threats. And we're still approaching every interaction with a certain guardedness and hostility.

Yeah, like I'm still reacting to how Comedy Central treated me in 2002. You know what I mean? But don't you think you're still reacting to nine fucking siblings? Sure. Sure. Sure I am. They're all gone, they're old and some of them are. I know, but they still, I'm still not the funniest one

in the family to a lot of, you know, whatever. I don't even think I'm reacting to that. No, it's just the vigilance. The vigilance sets at the core of our personality. It's the core vigilance of you don't believe in me, do you? Yeah, or don't fuck with me. You're gonna fuck with me. Yeah, I think that might be your, yours is don't fuck with me,

and mine is don't underestimate me and don't belittle me. But I can take the fucking now. Like I have the humility to be on stage and fail or get one-upped by an audience member or whatever. And I can work with that. I can be in that space. I can be in that space. I can be in that space easier on stage than in life.

And the weird thing with me is, though, if I don't do a show for a week or two, I don't think I can do it anymore. Like, I'm literally like, do I even know how to do it? No, it's the only job in the world like that. I don't think I can be a doctor. Yeah, and as soon as I get on stage, I'm like, oh, I live here.

Yeah, it's not even, this is actually, I don't think I can be a person at my house. Exactly. That's the part that's important. So how's the relationship changed you? Better, a therapist? She's a therapist. It's changed me in that I'm more, well, the DMT and the ayahuasca

changed me to make me more available to be loving and be caring and be less. In a heartfelt way. Yeah. Not in an act as if way. No, not in a I have to do this. Or like I'm gonna, you know, I know how to behave. Right.

Even if it's contrary. I can be super boyfriend. I can perform boyfriend. I don't need to perform boyfriend. I actually want to see her. I want to talk to her. I like talking to her. I like hearing about her day.

I like hearing about her perception. And again, which isn't to say like, and this is the first woman I've ever, that's not even the case. It's just the easiest's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just,

it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it. Oh, that's the fucking worst. Because then that leads to constantly feeling like you're being fucked with or condescended.

But I think there was also, I think most of the problems I had in relationships were the woman thinking I wasn't as into her as she was into me. And then that's the first domino. And then everything from the accusations. They clearly misunderstood your personality. Well, please.

Again, what do you want me to do? I'm always compliment, people only read energy. And it's like, listen to what I'm saying. I'm complimentary, I'm kind, I'll help you if I need to help you. It just seems like, the joke I've made is like, my problem is I am nice, but I don't seem nice. And the key to show business is seem nice,

but don't be nice. I think that's a good observation. I get that too, but people who know me know I'm just a fucking mushy fuck. Yeah, you'll pick them up. I'm soft. You'll pick them up at the airport or whatever. You'll belly-ache. But the people that really know me,

they're like, you know, like, you're just like this hypersensitive softy, really. Yeah. But like, you know, some other thing lives out in the world, and people project onto it, you know. Yes. Like, I did Taylor Tomlinson's show, and I just was loose, I had a good time,

I was cute and charming. And I'm like, she's like, you're having fun? I'm like, yeah, it's great. And I'm like, why, what'd you think would happen? She said, I thought you'd come on here and shit on the whole thing. And I'm like, why would I do that? You don't know me.

And then cut to the tape, cut to the tape of you shitting on things? Yeah, throughout half my life. Yeah, so I've been lucky. Yeah, it's great. Like, I just think she's great. That's good. Well, you're ready for it.

Yeah. Well, look, buddy, I think we did good. Yeah. And I did, I love the special. I thought it was great. I mean, I watch you and I'm like, that is good. Thank you, man. I mean, that means a lot to me.

And it's also, I actually believe you, like 80%. And... You still annoy me a little. How could I not? I am a living person. How could I not annoy you? A living person, well again, you annoy yourself completely.

I'll tell you, I'll be honest with you man, not about you, but like, here's the one thing that really is killing me. You know, Rock gave me that line. You know the line, I don't wanna burn the line. Don't blow up for the crowd. Of course Rock gave you a joke. Yeah, he gave me a punch.

The second joke, the second tag. And it kills. And it's so simple. And I would never have thought of it because I don't have the same cultural, well, you know, I'm not a sponge. And it just sticks in my head, like sort of like, what am I, if that's one fucking line,

to get that big a laugh, and it came from him, it's okay, fine, that's why he's great, but like, what the fuck am I doing? That you didn't think of it? Well, not that I didn't think of that, but like, how do I broaden my cultural education to include references to think? I know, but it's a reference to Seinfeld.

It's not like, where did he hear of this? No, no, no, but I wouldn't have made the connection. Oh, that's funny. I gave, I mean, I've heard the amount of people that have told me jokes they're responsible for in other people's acts. Yeah, I bet. I bet it really made a huge impact on that person.

I know guys who gave me tags that changed the game, that changed the bit for me, because I don't use them that much. You've given me tags, I've tried them, and he gave me one, then Rhodes gave me one years ago, and it really was a fucking nice piece, but I remember it, because I don't do it that often. I don't take tags that often.

I don't give them that often. Yeah, you had to try that, I thought. That you gave me? Yeah, that I was like, I'm pretty sure that'll work, but I don't know if you did it. Oh, it was about the the oh you're on the treadmill Oh, right right running right so it seems even creepier because it looks like you're chasing after them Oh, I didn't I'm gonna try that yeah. Yeah, all right buddy. Look good talking you good to see you, buddy There you go. Covered a lot.

Neil Brennan, Crazy Good, is streaming now on Netflix. Hang out for a minute, folks. Addiction doesn't discriminate people. In Canada, for instance, we lose 20 people to drug overdose every single day. So if you're listening to this and you've experienced addiction, just know that you're not alone. CAMH is the Center for Addiction and Mental Health and they're hard at work creating better treatments and interventions for anyone experiencing addiction. CAMH is revolutionizing our understanding of

the brain and transforming patient care by knocking down the barriers that keep people from getting help. Sometimes it feels like there's no hope if you're feeling the impact of addiction in your life. Maybe you experience it directly or maybe indirectly, like if you're dealing with the effects it has on your family or friends or co-workers. You don't have to surrender to hopelessness because CAMH is confronting addiction head-on through groundbreaking research. And right now you can partner with CAMH to build a future where no one is left behind. Help change mental health care forever. Donate at CAMH.CA slash WTF to help CAMH treat addiction and build hope. That's CAMH.CA

slash WTF. From the world of Sonic the Hedgehog, a new hero arrives. I am ready. Is there anyone stronger? No. Tougher? No. Funnier? I do not make jokes, I make warriors.

Knuckles, now streaming only on Paramount+. Yes! People, if you're subscribed to the full Marin, that means you have access to every single episode of WTF, which also means you can go back and listen to me and Neil Work through an issue we had with each other in front of a live audience at the Vancouver Comedy Festival. I didn't feel Respect from you and I'm not saying I deserve fucking Fucking rose petals on my feet, which you that's where your head goes your head goes this motherfucker. That's not I

Which you that's where your head goes your head goes this motherfucker. That's not I Was like I just felt like you've had this podcast you told me you were gonna put me on it very early And then you're just having fucking get and I love the podcast you just have guest after guest after this is a different issue No, it's the same one though. No, okay, but so but this is there's a whole layer of like more insight, right? Okay, but there's a whole layer of you sitting there going when's my fucking turn? Yeah, well you you should know about as a guy that's tried to get on television try it No, just just listen to just I mean listen to what he's so he pushes out there This this is part of the issue I've heard you talk about club owners who wouldn't book you as quote-unquote evil cocksuckers. So I know that that's when you're when you're

being excluded from something you know there's gonna be a visceral reaction don't want so don't act like you're magnanimous like well no they make their choices and we're all adults here. That's episode 287 and it's available for all full marin subscribers to sign up. Go to the link in the episode description or go to WTFpod.com and click on WTF plus. And a reminder before we go, this podcast is hosted by a cast. Here's some guitar from the vaults from the vaults. I'm gonna play a man, I'm gonna be a man

I'm gonna be a man, I'm gonna be a man So I'm gonna be a man, I'm gonna be a man I'm gonna be a man, I'm gonna be a man Boomer lives! Monkey! La Fonda! Cat angels everywhere!