WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1536 - Chris Pine

Episode Date: May 6, 2024

Chris Pine is in the position to offer Marc some advice. As the first-time director of the new movie Poolman, Chris gives Marc practical tips as Marc entertains the possibility of directing a film. But Chris also provides Marc with some insight into why people like them still feel a need to keep going despite their clear measurements of success. They also talk about Star Trek, Hell or High Water, Chris’s dad Robert Pine, Denzel Washington and the eclipse that was happening during this conversation. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Register today at SunriseChallenge.ca. That's SunriseChallenge.ca. Everyone knows therapy is great for solving problems, but getting therapy has its own problems too, like finding the right therapist, fitting into their schedule, and of course, the cost. Well, BetterHelp can solve those problems. It's totally online and built around your schedule. It's surprisingly affordable too.

Connect with a credential therapist by phone, video, or online chat, all from the comfort of your home. Visit BetterHelp.com to learn more and save 10% on your first month. That's BetterHelp. H-E-L-P. Hey folks, today's episode is sponsored by Squarespace. It's the best way for you to stand out online using the Squarespace tools to build your own website and enhance all aspects of your digital presence.

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of a website or domain. That's squarespace.com slash WTF. Offer code WTF. Yes. Lock the gates! ["Fuck the Gets"] ["Fuck the Gets"] ["Fuck the Gets"]

["Fuck the Gets"] ["Fuck the Gets"] ["Fuck the Gets"] ["Fuck the Gets"] ["Fuck the Gets"] ["Fuck the Gets"] ["Fuck the Gets"] All right, let's do this.

How are you, what the fuckers? What the fuck, buddies? What the fuck, Knicks? What's happening? I'm Mark Maron. This is my podcast welcome to it. I am traveling a lot Today on the show I talked to a Chris pine I don't know. It's just every time I see him. I'm like I like that guy You know I like especially in that hell or high water movie.

I just, I think he's good. He's got something in that guy, pine. And sometimes I just have to like a guy and then I'll have him on the show. And it turns out he's a pretty likable guy. He's been in those new Star Trek movies, Wonder Woman, Unstoppable. His new movie, which he co-wrote, directed in Stars Inn,

is called Pool Man, which is a weird little movie, a weird little comedy with some big stars. He plays a guy that you wouldn't expect him to play. It was pretty good, but he's here. I talked to him, but let's talk about other things. How's it going with you? What are you doing? What are you obsessed with? What are you obsessed with?

What are you obsessed with? I go through these things where like it could be anything. It doesn't have to be, you know, I've gone through it with music. I've gone through it with guitars. I've gone through it with pieces of wood. I don't know. I've gone through it with lavender plants, which are beginning to disappoint me out front. I Don't think I got the right kind of lavender

That's it. And that's that's how I ground myself folks. That is what I do I get I get obsessed with something seemingly ridiculous For as long as it takes me to calm down whether that be days weeks or months or years some obsessions last longer than others. And usually, when you're done with the obsession, you have a lot of whatever it is you were obsessed with around, and then you start saying things like, man, I got to get rid of some stuff. But you don't. You don't do it. the obsession has been these I Don't even know who told me about it, but this East fork

pottery East fork mugs Like I'm a mug guy and you know you kind of spend a lifetime You kind of spend a lifetime trying to find a mug sometimes you get very committed to a mug I got the Brian Jones mugs, but they're fancy East fork the East Fork pottery stuff, I think it's out of maybe North Carolina, they are in Asheville, North Carolina, which is, you know, Pottery Haven,

but somebody hit me to the East Fork mugs, and then like I just had to have all the other East Fork stuff, and that's been the obsession, and I got the mugs in like every different color, and then like I just had to have all the other East Fork stuff and That's been the obsession and they can I got the mugs in like every different color They've all get they've got all these tiny little bowls that you can use like while you're cooking for putting spices in they got Big bowls they got plates they got serving bowls But and they got all these colors like when I first started living like an adult I was kind of obsessed with heath pottery.

But you all know I'm a pottery guy, but this is stuff you can, you know, you buy plates and stuff. It's not just pieces of vase or something like that or something fancy. It's like practical stuff. So I had all this heath stuff, the basic blue heath stuff, and then like somebody told me about these East Fork mugs. And they're like the best. And they're weighted properly, they look cool. I don't know. So that's what's happening. I think I'm gonna end up with several houses

worth of East Fork pottery. I think go look at it. It's at eastfork.com. I'm not trying to get a deal here. I'm just telling you what I'm working on obsession wise. And that seems to be it. My dates, I've got a few dates coming up. And by the way, I am sorry about the cancellations

or the reschedules of many of the dates later in the summer and early fall. If it happened to you, I will come back. I am rescheduling those. I hope you can make it, but I'm doing a TV thing and I had to do the TV thing. I want to do the TV thing. It may be the last TV thing I do. This week, I'll be in Munhall, Pennsylvania outside Pittsburgh on May 9th at the Carnegie Library Music Hall, Cleveland, Ohio on May 10th at Playhouse Square in Detroit, Michigan on May 11th at the Royal Oak Music Hall, Cleveland, Ohio on May 10th at Playhouse Square, in Detroit, Michigan on May 11th

at the Royal Oak Music Theater. I'm back at Largo in LA on Tuesday, May 14th. Here are the rescheduled dates. And again, I'm sorry. Santa Barbara, California at the Lobero Theater. That will now be on January 30th, 2025. San Luis Obispo, California at the Fremont Theater. That's now January 31st.

Monterey, California at the Golden State Theater, February 1st. Iowa City at the Ingert Theater on February 13th. Des Moines at Hoyt Sherman Place. That's Des Moines, Iowa, February 14th. Kansas City, Missouri at the Midland Theater, February 15th. Asheville, North Carolina at the Orange Peel, February 20th, Nashville, Tennessee,

at the Polk Theatre, February 21st, Louisville, Kentucky, at the Kentucky Center for the Performing Arts, February 2nd, Lexington, Kentucky, at the Lexington Opera House, February 23rd, Durham, North Carolina, at the Carolina Theatre, March 21st, Charlotte, North Carolina at the Knight Theater March 22nd, Charleston, South Carolina at the Charleston Music Hall March 23rd. For all ticket links go to WTFpod.com slash tour. I'm sorry I had to reschedule but I had to do it and who knows what's gonna happen in November. You know I hope I can make all these dates and we're not a divided country to the point where I have to there are border crossings from state to state. We'll see. I guess we'll adapt or we'll run or we'll fight but that one seems to be the least possible. So what's

happening? So I did some shows. I flew into New York. I did three shows Montclair, New Jersey Philly outside of Philly glenside is that what it's called the Keswick and then DC at the Warner, which was spectacular I had this amazing comic open for me Maddie wiener who I never worked with before and all I'm hoping is that I get along with the opener so we can drive for hours and chit chat and not be weird or awkward and it was great it was great to talk about comedy and it's weird I don't you know I don't know where I stand with anybody with comics I don't have my inner dialogue is not great but it was, but it was kind of nice.

She and some other comics of her generation seemed to have me in pretty high esteem. She knew a lot of my old bits and it was nice. I think that's one of the great honors and rewards of this business. It's not so much that I, well, it is also. I'm very happy I have an audience and grateful that you come out

and you're all decent grown up people. But you know, when other comics respect you and they kind of know what you do and you're one of their guys, it feels like the best. And she was amazing. I kind of had a minor meltdown in New York and it all kind of brought some things into clarity for me. As you know, because you listen to this show, and you know what I'm thinking and where I'm at,

there was a period there where I was gonna move to New York. I was very close to moving to New York. And I thought like New York in my mind was a place where I could get old. I thought, wouldn't it be great to be an old New York guy? I could be an old guy living in New York, doing things, engaged in the world, feeding on the electricity that is that city,

and doing high culture things. Even though I didn't do that stuff when I was younger living in New York, I thought like, I will be an engaged New York old man. And then like I kind be an engaged New York old man. And then like I kind of pulled back from that for reasons that are supported by this experience. But I kind of pulled back from that because I realized it's a young man's game.

Maybe if I was in my 30s or 40s and I was bi-coastal, that was sort of the dream, but now I'm 60. And I started to rethink it and I thought maybe I wanted something different for my life. I wanted something more peaceful Maybe New Mexico, but I'll tell you man. I was in New York and I just had I was an embarrassing experience Where I realized I made the right decision because I saw clearly what kind of New York old man I would be and

It wasn't pretty and I wasn't proud. And I had to apologize twice, twice. And I just had not seen this part of myself in a while. And I flew into New York. I was staying at the Ludlow, which is where I usually stay. And they put me, my manager got upgraded to a suite and this exact thing happened to me. The last time I went to the Ludlow.

The suite is no, it's not good. So on the fourth floor, it's facing the street. It's got a room up in the front, which is not good for much. Unless maybe I was recording an interview, but even then the other rooms are better. So I tried to go to sleep and there was construction at 1.30 in the morning.

1.30 in the morning there was construction. Now look, I know New York, what am I complaining about? It's what happens, but it felt like it was in my room. And then the next morning I woke up to the sound of this like loud ass truck across the street. It was a truck that had a tank on it that was running a tube, a hose into Katz's. I don't know if it was draining or filling up grease.

I don't know what it was doing, but it was 6.30 in the morning. So now I'm on five hours of sleep. I go down to the counter. I'm like, I can't, what is with that room? How is that room a good room? How is that a suite that anybody would want? can't I couldn't sleep at all the fucking noise it's it and I'm and I'm at this pitch and I'm upset and

I and I knew I was doing it that that guy inside of me was like dude keep it together But I'm like I cut I'm I'm at the end of I'm at the end of my rope here. I need another room And they're like, okay fine. We'll find you another room. And then the next day, you know, I was I need another room." And they're like, okay, fine, we'll find you another room. And then the next day, you know, I was going to get another room. And they said, all right, we'll put you in another room, but we don't know when it's going to be done. So I had to check out of the suite at noon. And then like I go up and they said, well, your room's clean. I'm like, great. Can I go in? No, we got to get it inspected. I'm like, well, how long is that going to take? Well, we put you on cue. I mean, how many times do I gotta stay here

before you can just call somebody who has to inspect the room and say, go have a look. We got this guy, stays here a lot. So I was pulling rank, I was being a bit of a diva and I was being difficult and I was mad and I felt bad about it because I was mad and it was visible and there are strangers there.

I don't think anyone had a phone out. It wasn't that bad. But so I sat there in the fucking lobby in the bar area, kind of angry pouty, making plans, ready to switch hotels, you know, dramatic. And then the manager, this nice young woman comes up to me and she goes, we have your room, Mr. Marin. And I'm like, okay, great. And then she said, can I talk to you privately for a minute?

And I'm like, okay. And we walk into the back patio area and she goes, I can't have you yelling at the counter, okay? I'm glad we can help you out, but I just can't, I can't have that. And I said, okay, I'm sorry. And she was right. And I respected her boundaries

and her decision to talk to me as customer service to say, you can't do that. You can't, you just like, what are you doing? You're a grown fucking man. I'm reading into it now. But I felt bad and I was embarrassed and I said, I was sorry. And she gave me the key to my new room

and I went up to it, it was on the 11th floor, still facing the street, but apparently there was construction behind it. And I walk into this room, still kind of steamed, but you know, but embarrassed and contrite. And there's a fucking, there was a baby playpen in the room. And I laughed out loud. I laughed out loud in my room

at the little baby playpen that was in my room. And I just hoped in my heart that they had done that on purpose. Yeah, I just, I went down cause I was leaving and I apologized again and it's fucked up. You know, look, if you generate shame with from within based on things that your brain's putting you through, that's one thing. But when you put something out in the world that is embarrassing and you feel ashamed of and you can't put it back in, you know, you've released it. You've released it into the world. So then, you know, I get into this sort of like, I'm sorry, you know, anytime I walk by the people,

I was angry, you know, in front of, I was like, you guys need coffee, you know? But I had to go down there, you know, and I had to tell them, look, there's a playpen in my room for a baby. And I said, and look, you don't have to tell me, but I really hope you guys did that on purpose. I really hope that was a message because you're right.

I was being a fucking baby. And they're like, no, of course we wouldn't do that. But I still hope, I still hope they did that on purpose. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Do you have something you really need to get off your chest? Or if you're like me, do you need to get everything off your chest all the time? Clearly. We all carry a lot of things around big and small and when some of those things weigh

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of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try. It's entirely online, designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule. Get it off your chest with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com slash WTF today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H-E-L-P dot com slash WTF. Yes, yes, do that before you make a fool out of yourself All right but that that story about losing my shit at the hotel was not even the story that Landed the reality of who I'd be in New York in my in my guts You know, I had a day in New York

I got a little exercise in and then I thought I'd stop at the Whole Foods to put together some sort of healthy breakfast snack for myself. So I bought some yogurt, I bought some blueberries, bought a few walnuts, and I was gonna, it was early, and I was gonna like steal a little bowl from the Sallabart Whole Foods, but they hadn't got it set up yet.

So I went into the coffee shop that's connected to the Whole Foods there in New York. I bought a cup of coffee shop that's connected to the Whole Foods there in New York. I bought a cup of coffee. It was like four bucks. Tipped the woman, the barista a dollar. And then, you know, I had a plan. I was gonna mix my yogurt with my nuts and my berries.

And I had a plan, man. It was in my head. I visualized it. I was trying to manifest it. So I said, do you have a cup? Can I get an extra cup? And the barista said, yeah, that'll be 50 cents if you pay cash and a dollar if you charge it.

And I'm like, I just want an extra cup. And she's like, yeah, it's a dollar. And I'm like, are you fucking kidding me? I mean, I just tipped you a dollar. I mean, what the fuck? I mean, for a cut, you're going to charge me for a cup. I'm having coffee here. I tipped you.

It was, and then I just kind of like, I was flying off the handle again. This is a fucking ridiculous, fucking ridiculous. And I can afford 50 cents or a dollar for a cup. What was I even doing? I was just like losing it all over the place. And then I just sat there like a fucking baby and was like facing them at the counter, like eating my yogurt and nuts and berries separately.

Like, look what you made me do. And I thought I was winning. I thought that I was making a statement. And then I was like. I thought that I was making a statement and then I was like my god, man What the fuck is wrong with you? What is wrong with you? And Then it was I realized that I had hit a wall I had hit a wall with what not just lack of sleep but with New York in a way

There was it was it's just too much and then I realized it was very clear to me if I lived in New York I'd just be one of those weird old men that you see kind of hunched over and grumbling and kind of like stumbly walking down the street with a strand book bag and like two plastic Dwayne Reed bags filled with more plastic Dwayne Reed bags and orthopedic shoes talking to myself. You know that's who I'd be walking around, I would be wearing Dwayne Reed bags and orthopedic shoes, talking to myself. You know, that's who I'd be. One of those people that kind of falls through the cracks and you see them and you're like, how long have they been here?

But that's who I would be, wandering around. You know, I don't know, man. But those are the embarrassing stories. I guess they could be worse. I did apologize. I don't know that I apologized at the coffee shop. I'll have to make an amends when I go back. Warmer sunnier days are calling people. Fuel up for them with factors. No prep. No mess meals. If you have wellness goals, you want to meet in time for summer factor. Make chef crafted meals that are ready in two minutes. No shopping, prepping, cooking or cleaning up.

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His new movie, Pool Man, comes out in theaters this Friday, May 10th. It's an odd, quirky movie. I talked to him about it and other things. So this is me and Chris Pine. On May 10th, Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes is coming to IMAX and theaters everywhere. What a wonderful day!

This summer, one movie event will reign. It is our time. Apes hunt humans. That is wrong. Bend for your king. Never. Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes. Only in theaters May 10. Tickets on sale now. saving progress in mental health care. From May 27th to 31st, people across Canada will rise together

and show those living with mental illness and addiction that they're not alone. Help CAMH build a future where no one is left behind. So, who will you rise for? Register today at sunrisechallenge.ca. That's sunrisechallenge.ca. What do you got? Ed Begley Jr. Yeah, he wrote a book.

What a fucking... You know that guy? What a stud. Well, I mean, as an LAite, he's an OG LAite who's been doing the... Who's been doing the... The thing. Well, no, the specifically the environmental thing for a minute, like before it was ever really cool.

Yeah, he's been doing that, but he's also been around since the beginning of cool Hollywood and his dad, and his dad, old Hollywood. 100%. And he's got stories, I mean. Great stories. Well, yeah, because it was such a smaller town then. Yeah.

You know, and it was a community. So, like, when he was running around in the 70s, you know, he's at, he's at Dan Tanna's, he's out at the Manson Ranch. He's just, they're shipping. How old is he? He's, he's like... He's my father. My father was here in LA at the same time. He came out in 64. And I think Begley's in his 70s. Like, he's, yeah. He's around that same time. Your dad came out in 64?

He came out in 64. From where where from Scarsdale, New York. Oh, no. No. Well, he he grew up in Scarsdale Went to this college called Ohio Westland. Yeah, yeah Yeah, and then did summer stock out in Nantucket or something and then and then came out to LA in 64 Was under contract at Universal which I think had the last contract system in the town. Was he with Cranston's dad? You know, Brian Cranston's dad was, I had no idea. Was kind of a studio actor. I don't know where he was.

I have to ask my dad about it. Yeah, I wonder, man. I mean, Cranston is... in his 60s? Right, I guess so. So his father probably, well I don't know, could have been, I know my father's 83 now. Oh really, how's he doing?

He is fucking doing fantastically. He's got all his wits about him? He does, he has his wits about him and God, knock on wood, he's healthy and spry and cute as can be. Here we go, Joseph Cranston. Joseph Cranston, career, television actor on several programs including Space Patrol and Dragnet.

So it doesn't sound like he was a studio guy. How old, when was he born? 1924, age 90. Yeah, I mean, he's 24, 34, he's like 15, 16 years older than my pop. But it's weird because, you know, Cranston, and I don't know if you're the same way because of how you grew up,

like he, Cranston's got this very kind of working class. 100%. Idea of what acting is. 100%. I get like the, get such a kick out of the Nepo baby thing. Yeah. Well that, that pisses me off. my family has such a laugh about it as if

That's right. You gotta you gotta you have to hire Robert pine son. I Mean that stuff I'm sure you know Robert pine from chips kids got it coming I'm sure that happens maybe it in some oh my god that poster is gonna drive me nuts It's you're like an eight centimeter off. Oh, what do you mean? Oh, on, in the angle? Yeah. We'll fix it later.

Okay. Do I need to fix it now? No, no, that's fine. What time's the eclipse? The eclipse is now, pal. It's now? The eclipse starts at 11. Okay.

Peaks at 11, 12 apparently. It will still be going at 12 something, but we're in the, I think this is. Just the middle, do you have your glasses? No, I left them inside. What do you mean? We should go, let's pause this and just go look at it real quick.

Don't you think? I mean, I would like to, yeah. Okay, okay. Well, that was an exciting. Super fun. What we gathered from that is that it's not, it's not a particularly long watch. You don't have to, have to you have to linger

It's one and done with the eclipse there. They're there. They're doing their thing. It's cool. I had these glasses somebody who worked for What's that guy's name? Nye? You know the science guy bill Nye Bill Nye's One of his people gave me those glasses I think we should also tell the audience that you you uh, you have looked at an eclipse before with sunglasses. Just for a second. I didn't trump it. And I didn't... And a quote-unquote, fuck me up.

Yeah, fuck me up. Well, if you look at the sun without sunglasses or protection, that probably isn't gonna happen. Yeah, I, uh, I don't know, like, I guess it's an innate stubbornness where you're just sort of like, well, how bad can it be? Bad. Yeah. You're gonna burn a hole in your fucking eyeball.

Fuck me up. I saw we were talking about your dad. Well, the Nepo baby thing for me has always been like, why do people get upset? There's like a million sort of plumbers and sons, Bill and son's plumbers, Bill and son's contractor. It's like nepotism is just sort of like, why wouldn't you step into the thing

you grew up with in the house? No, I don't think it's that. Of course. Well, that makes a lot of sense, because it's like what you talked about at the dinner table. I think it's this idea that people are going to give you jobs because you're... But the agents that were around that knew your dad

or probably worked with your dad. This is what I will say. It definitely gave, like, I got an audition very, very early on for the Gilmore Girls. The Gilmore Girls, my father was in an audition. Yeah that he didn't book But he the casting directors loved him and they loved the casters He said my son's an actor and he just is coming back from William's town this theater festival back East Well, you see him and they said sure I came in audition. I didn't get the part. So I got a leg in like yeah

Yeah an audition, but sure you got to show your chops But what was it? No, you were saying about the blue collar acting thing, which I think is totally true. You know, my father has had great success, and he's had periods where he hasn't worked, he's had money, he hasn't had money. He's an auditioning actor.

He's not an, you know, he's, and he's been doing it since 64, so. Yeah. Wow, yeah. So that I would definitely say I hold that probably in common with Brian. I never, I never locked in to the, you know, I did comedy all my life

and the idea was maybe I'd act, but every time I did an audition, I'm like, I can't, I don't, I'm not this guy. I can't do it. You're not the audition guy? No, a lot of times, like, I don't love the material necessarily. When you write your own material,

now you know that because you wrote a movie, which I watched last night. It was a fun, odd movie. And maybe that's the best compliment I'll be able to get from that. But I appreciate it. I appreciate it. I mean, it's not what it was supposed to be?

No, I appreciate that. Yeah, it's interesting. I was listening last night to your really moving interview with your girlfriend who passed. Oh, yeah, yeah, Lynn, yeah. And Lynn said something like, this first movie of mine, I gave myself permission to make something that was wholly my own

and that didn't need to, like, please anyone. And that, I would say, definitely holds true to it for a lot of my film. Right, but when you write your own shit, I mean, you kind of have this control that when you audition for, like, especially TV, and I imagine early on, you're like, oh my god. And you just joke to joke weird dumb things. control that when you audition for, like, especially TV, and I imagine early on, you're like, oh my God.

And you just joke to joke weird dumb things. And yeah, but I, I actually, there was a part when I, when I was auditioning, I liked the competitive aspect of it. Like I like going into an audition room. Oh my God. And getting into full gladiator mode. Like I'm going to go in and I'm going to fucking,

I'm going to get this part. Oh, yeah. So even trying to make sense out of shitty material, it's like you still have a job to do to try to make something worse. I actually like the, and I really like the flow state of it. Like I'm very focused on one thing. No matter the level of the material or not,

it's like you gotta win the room. How are you gonna win the room? Oh, really? So I actually kind of enjoy it. Oh, so that's like, you gotta win the room. How are you gonna win the room? Oh really? So I actually kind of enjoy it. Oh, that's like diametrically opposite to me. I walk in, I see guys I've seen on television, I'm like, I'm gonna go. There's no fucking way.

That guy's the right guy. You know, it's funny speaking about my father is because I went on an audition with my father and he's been seeing the same guy, he's 83, he's been seeing the same guys in audition rooms for 50 plus years. They know, and they only know each other really from the audition.

So he's seen kids grow up, marriages, grandkids, the whole shebang. And it's the same thing, they go in there like, ah, Peter, you're gonna get this, god damn it. And there's kind of a. They go in there like, ah, Peter, you're going to get this. God damn it. And there's kind of a joy in the, you know, in the camaraderie of the brotherhood of actors. Yeah, I guess I don't have a healthy sense of competition. Even when I did that role in Two Leslie,

that guy pestered me for months, for months to do that role. And I'm thinking like, get, get Sean Hawk. You know, get Chris Pine. There's guys that could, that could do this. Do you enjoy acting? I think I do. I mean, I keep wanting to. You prefer standup.

Well, I like standup because it's all you and you go out there and it's just you and a theater. How often are you doing standup? I'm out pretty heavy. I just got back yesterday from four days Midwest. I did Madison, Milwaukee, Chicago, Minneapolis, theaters. So you're going out there, you have an opener, they do the 20 minutes, 15 up front,

and I go out there and do an hour and a half and get into that flow. It's very immediate. It's very- So are you working on material all the time? Totally. Wow. For most of my life.

And then the thing with acting, and I talk about this a lot, is just that you do your three minutes, and then, okay, we're gonna reset, and then you go to the trailer. Yeah, it's brutal. For an hour, hour and a half, three hours, four hours. That's what's fun about directing and acting at the same time.

Oh, no spare time. There's no downtime. It's like you feel like you're Chaplin or Buster Keaton or one of those guys back in the day that's just like, make, make, make, make, make. Right, yeah, and you don't have that thing where you're sitting in the trailer, which are never that nice, even the nice ones.

Or you're angsting over something, you're like, oh, fuck that, I fucked that scene up. Yeah. There's no time for that. But for you, those times on camera, are you gonna dip in? No, but I did see dip over there. It's a Zins.

Yeah, oh the old Zins. No, yeah they're not, not Zins, non tobacco dip. The fuck does that mean? I don't know what it is, it's just, I just, It's just nicotine. It's just nicotine, I think it's very powdered glass. Great. With, soaked in nicotine.

Powdered fiberglass soaked in nicotine. Yeah, yeah, perfect. Exactly what I want, yeah. No tobacco though, so it's great damn it. Yeah, I got two in right now Good for you. Fuck. How are your gums doing? Don't I don't want to talk about I think they're all right They were already receding but but what the question is so The five minutes at a time. Yeah that you're on set doing the thing Yeah, you know putting together this massive movie. It justifies the eight hours in the trailer.

It's a very good question, man. It is an incredible way to make a living, that's for sure. And the moments where you're rocking and rolling and you get into flow state, it would be like anything. It's my version of you being on stage or whatever. Sure, shorter though. But it's these micro bursts.

And I often think about why, I think the reason why people get paid big money for it is because after let's say a 15 hour day, and they're like, hey Julia Roberts, it's time to go to your closeup where you're madly in love with so and so and your mother's also died. And you gotta perform. There's just like, there's no asterisk

on the bottom of the screen that's saying that you've had a really hard fucking day. You gotta go show up and fucking do the thing. Note to audience. So that's, you know, I think. Well, yeah, that's the job. I think there's, I think, but it's fucking, it's hard, there's a lot of downtime.

Yeah, yeah. There's a lot of downtime. There's a lot of downtime. Well, I mean, when did you, like, what was the deal? You grew up all your life here. Yeah, I grew up here in Glendale. I grew up 10 minutes away in North Hollywood, and I played sports and wanted to be a baseball player, and that's really all I thought about all of the time.

But even in the house, like, but your dad, you weren't hanging out with Eric Estrada or anything. Well, the show, the show was on from 76 or 77 to 81, I think. Yeah. So I was born in 80, so I was, I don't really remember much of any of that really. Yeah. By the time I was five or six,

I think my dad was on Bold and the Beautiful for a couple of years and then. Yeah. But you didn't go to sets, I think my dad was on Bold and the Beautiful for a couple years and then... Yeah. But you didn't go to sets, you didn't see him on TV. The one set that I remember going to is Quantum Leap. Oh, yeah. Um... And I remember seeing Scott Bakula and that thing,

and Dean Stockwell. Oh, yeah. And that was a big deal. But no, we talked about it, and we talked about, and I love my father never calls them auditions, he calls them interviews, which I love. Yeah. I fucking love it.

I've never ever heard him call it an audition. Yeah. Going on an interview. Yeah. I think it's so cool. But yeah, it was something I grew up around and a lot of my friends' parents were in the business or around the business.

And yeah. Like who? When I was in grammar school, it was Zoe Winkler, whose father was Henry Winkler. Yeah. Sweetie Pie. Yeah. I actually just ran into her the other day.

Annie Meyershire, whose mom is Nancy Meyers. Yeah. So I was around a bunch of those kinds of folks. But so you're playing sports? No idea you're going to act? No, no. I really wanted to be Don Mattingly. Baseball?

Yeah, baseball. Yeah. So you were serious? I was serious insofar as I had a deep passion for it. I didn't have any... I mean, I had skill probably up until I was about... I don't know, 13. What position? I played everything, but I ended up at first base.

Yeah. And you could hit? I played in Little League, and it wasn't a great experience. No? No. My parents did what they could to try to get me involved. Not a lot of interest there. I was just on, I was on the equivalent of the Bad News Bears. It just was a fucking joke.

Great fucking movie. It was a great movie. Walter Mathau. Great fucking movie. So funny. Yeah, I was a center fielder and I famously got, somehow was under a pop fly and got hit in the face and broke my nose and that kinda ended the dream

if I ever had it. I got hit in the face and broke my nose. And that kind of ended the dream if I ever had it. I got hit in the face when I was 17 by an 80 mile an hour fastball. A pitch? Pitch, right in the face. Oh my God. Didn't break anything, thank God. But anyway, so I was playing baseball

in my senior year of high school. I studied a class on waiting for Godot, on Samuel Beckett, and did the first act of waiting for Godot in my senior year. And I enjoyed it, but I, again, really didn't think anything of it, and then I went to college and made my way to the theater department because I went to Berkeley.

Oh really, so you're up there. I was up there for three years, and then a of that I did in England, a year abroad. That's an interesting city to hang out in. Berkeley? Yeah. Super. Berkeley's interesting, Oakland's interesting. San Francisco, I didn't spend much time in,

and it's certainly, God, it's changed quite a bit since I was there. Yeah. You spent much time up there? Yeah, I was there for a couple years and I've worked up there on a, Oh wow. I lived in I was there for a couple years, and I've worked up there on a lot. I lived in San Francisco for just a couple years,

and I was going back and forth to New York to do a TV gig that was a hosting gig. But yeah, I got a sense of it. It's a beautiful city, but it's kind of. Beautiful city. It seems like not unlike a lot of cities, it got fucked. I think it's probably, you know,

it seems like where we're going as a country is the, just because it's so small, it's the microcosm of the death of the middle class. It's like really rich, really poor. Yeah, but also just the sort of no sort of support system that works for the disenfranchised and the mentally ill and the drug addicted. And then once these downtowns, once people realize they don't have to leave their house to go to work, which I think the pandemic taught everybody, it just guts everything. And it becomes a little weird. But I go to these smaller cities like Milwaukee even,

where there's definitely an effort to kind of revive downtown. And sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't take. But yeah. Where you from? I grew up in Albuquerque. Oh, fuck, wow. But genetically in New Jersey.

But you grew up. Folks are from Jersey. You grew up in Albuquerque. I did, yeah. Did you like it? Yeah, I mean, you know, you like where you grow up generally. Yeah, I loved it. It was a different town. I mean, you know, you like where you grow up generally. Yeah, I loved it.

It was a different town. I mean, people, you go to their shoot at all? Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah, what'd you shoot out there? I shot a film years and years ago called Carriers, and then I shot a film called Hell or High Water there, maybe seven years ago. You and Ben shot that whole movie there?

Yep. Really? Up in the mountains and around? Yeah, exactly right. I think people's, you know, what they experience when they go to Albuquerque, they're like, oh, shit, it's beat up. What the fuck is this town? But when you grow up there and there's a nuance to it,

and you grew up when there was sort of a middle class there, and it was always sort of a high crime ratey kind of place, and it was always primarily Latino. How'd your parents end up there? I don't know, man. My dad was in the service for two years. It was always sort of a high crime ratey kind of place and it was always primarily Latino. How'd your parents end up there? I don't know, man. My dad was in the service for two years in Alaska and he had a buddy who, my dad was a doc,

and his buddy went down to Albuquerque because it was sort of a booming, a growing city, set up his practice there, said it was good. My dad went down there and did it. Wow. I was in like second grade. So I went second grade through high school. Alaska to New Mexico, that's a...

Yeah, I have some memories of Alaska, not great. Not great one, no? I can remember the terrain and a couple of weird babysitters, but that's about it. Ha ha ha. Definitely don't have to go down that route. I have been on stage, it's been pretty fucking weird. Really?

Yeah. Yeah, I've worked out this bit about trauma that's kind of, it's growing into something kind of amazing and disturbing. Are you working on it right now? Yeah. Oh, great, fun. Yeah, yeah, it's pretty fun, but it's a hard,

it's kind of a heavy lift comedically. So then with a bit like that, how long have you been working on it? I Don't know this it seems to be it's probably going on four or five months You know and it's sort of unfolding into something, you know as it goes And so when you see you're working on a bit like is there a point in time? Where that bit gets like the Eddie is there? Star Wars

Just the first thing that came to mind? Yeah. Anyway, is there a time when that bit is done? Kinda, I mean, yeah. You get the first act, second act, third of it. I think so, yeah, yeah. If you write like I do, which is on stage, you talk through it and wait for things

to be delivered to you in the moment, and then it's a surprise. I've become very addicted to that, where you have something that's funny enough and then you keep bringing it out and in moments of flow, as you would say, new things kind of come in the moment. You're like, wow.

I don't know what I'm looking at. And then when you go back after a show and then write it down, you'll just, you'll write it down. I'll make note of it, I'll record it. I don't usually listen to it, but usually they just, the ones that stick, stick, and I keep going with it. And so you're saying you're in this four or five month

process of working out this bit of trauma. Every time you go on stage, there's a little nuance change here. Exactly. There's a context with the audience at that given time, what they're giving you. Right, and also like how I'm setting it up. At first I was over setting it up because I was,

it was a fragile bit, so I would have to say like, I just want you to know, before I start talking about this, that I can handle it. I would tell them. Really? Yeah, and whatever you guys do with it is on you, but I think we're gonna get, we're gonna lift it. It's gonna be all right. And then they're like, oh no.

What's the... Fuck, man, I have, I think what you guys do is so admirable. I mean, my version of it, again, is like co-writing and directing and starring in a film, so I know the vulnerability of that. But to have the lifelong practice of being able to get up on stage,

no matter what's given to you, handle it. Yeah. I mean, that's... It's crazy when you put it like that. It's nuts. Yeah, yeah, and I haven't been doing it since I was 22, you know? I mean, it's nuts.'s crazy when you put it like that. It's nuts. Yeah, yeah, I've been doing it since I was 22, you know? I mean, it's nuts. Oh yeah, when you really think about...

Talking about thick skin, you're just like, fucking whatever, man. Yeah, and then like, how do you evolve? What, you know, what are, you know, how, like, how are you changing with it? Yeah. Like, the difference between me and me when I started and who my, you know, heroes were

and what I was trying to do and how much control I had over it and what I can do now. It's kind of amazing. Who are your heroes? My heroes are the regular heroes, you know, prior. And, you know, I was out here when I was 22. I was a doorman at the Comedy Store. Oh, shit.

So I got taken in, you know, by Kennison and that crew. And I was like, got some massive drug use. And that kind of blew my mind. Oh, Sam Kinison? Yeah, of course, yeah. I know it's surprising, everyone says that. Not that guy. But, you know, all that stuff kind of adds up, you know?

But ultimately you get to a point where you're a certain age. So Sunset Strip, what year? 87. Oh, fuck, so you're like, that's The Roxy. Crime time, Guns N' Roses. Yes, yes. Oh, fuck. So you're like, that's... The Roxy....prime time, Guns N' Roses. Yes. Yes. Oh, dude.

And they were all coming down to the store. Ah! And it was like no cover night on Mondays. Ah! And it was just fucking nuts. What a time, man. It was nuts. What a fucking time.

And because Sam was such a rock and roll freak, you know, he'd go to the Roxy and hold court and you'd go up there. Oh my god. And then also all the... The Rainbow Room. Yep. I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's right. He used to go up in there and eat that the rainbow room had the restaurant, right?

Wow. Yeah. And then the porn, you know, that was high time for porn. So they were all around. It was crazy. What a trip. And I was just this coked up, angry Jewish kid. You must have great fucking stories. Oh yeah.

I mean, they're mean they're great. They're not hero stories. But they're good campfire stories. For sure. Yeah, oh yeah, yeah. There's definitely a pretty prime Kenison story when, it was right before I lost my mind because eventually I coked myself into a psychotic state and had to get out. Yeah.

But you were too young, weren't you? How old are you? 87, I was seven years old. Yeah, no, you missed it. No, I know I missed it. Yeah, you missed it. I missed the one from the 70s, when the Sunset Strip. That, the early 70s in Hollywood,

that must've been crazy. Oh yeah, I mean, I was just listening to the Zeppelin bio on tape, and that time sounds fucking gnarly. So, okay, so you give up sports. Yep. Was that hard? That good segue.

Yeah, I guess it was kind of difficult. I mean, it's hard to be mediocre at something that you love. Oh, yeah, my brother had to deal with that. My brother was a tennis guy. Really? He wanted to go pro. And it's just like, at some point, if you know... But was he good enough to actually touch pro?

He was on a, for his age group, he was on a pro doubles thing. He was, I mean, he can play. Yeah, that's way far past where I was. Yeah, but he, like, ultimately, you gotta be sort of genetically, it's like, you can work as hard as you wanna work, but ultimately the thing that's gonna cross you over is kind of untangible. Yeah, I mean a lot of it is whatever you wanna call it,

luck or fated or... Yeah, I don't know. And genetics for sure. Well, same with acting in a certain degree, some guys just fit on screen. It's a very bizarre thing, isn't it? I don't know. And genetics for sure. What's that? Same with acting in a certain degree. You know, some guys just fit on screen. It's a very bizarre thing, isn't it? I don't understand it. I should fit better than I do.

That's all I know. It's like, I got a big head. It's a great name for a memoir. Yeah, I should have fit on screen. No, I should fit better than I do. But that's me looking at myself. What do I know? Yeah, you got a great big head.

Yeah, it should work out. But there's something about, I don't know, man. Like, I'm taking an acting gig, and I'm just like, all right, so what work are you going to do to make you feel like you're really doing this? Because I get this thing where I'm like, I make all these choices, you know, I do some character work, and then three days in,

I'm like, I'm just being me. I get it. What happened? I'm just... Yeah, but get it. What happened? I'm just... Yeah, but don't you think that's ultimately... I think... There's definitely character work in that regard, and Wippert is the fucking accent. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And doing, uh, whatever, a twitch. But the... I think really what people pay to see is the your thing, deal. Yeah, I think so. There's nothing more unique than your precise deal. Yeah, you don't have to dress it up with really much of anything. Well, it's like, but character actors

do a different thing, right? They do, they're, you know, I remember, I did a film called Shadow Recruit, this Jack Ryan film, and I was working with Kevin Costner. Yeah. And Kevin said something to me that always stuck with me is that the hardest work of a leading man, so to speak, is just holding, it's like a ballast in a ship.

No one's ever really, you're not always gonna talk about the ballast of the ship, talk about the ballast of the ship, but without the ballast of the ship, nothing else gets done. Right. Is that you have to occupy space enough to be kind of winning, but not so much space that you take away from the story.

Your job is pretty much to be- Service the story. Service the story in some ways, the audience surrogate. And I always thought that was really interesting, because I think growing up as a younger actor, you get turned on, or at least I did, a lot by the character actors, the guys that are doing all the fun shit. You know, the bad guys, the Lee Marvins or whatever.

Lee Marvin. But, you know, the leading men, it's a difficult and tricky gig, because you have to like know how to be... It's and tricky gig because you have to know how to be, it's not blank, but you have to be, that's exactly what I said, enough in the space of the film and enough away from the film

so people can occupy space with you and kind of go on the journey with you and they can become you. Right. Yeah, also though, some of that is just like through self-awareness that you are that guy, that you're going to... You can get out of your own way.

Right. And that's 100%. That is such a huge learning lesson, at least was for me. It's a version of stop trying so hard. Yeah. That because the camera is so, it's so intelligent that it'll just pick up. Right. As long as you have enough going on.

Right. And it's really true. And I remember, I remember, you know, you kind of take a tally as you're working. You're like, ah, that fucking thing. Yeah. I kind of definitely pushed you hard there. And I can track in a movie where I'm like

I could have taken that back a hundred and fifteen percent and still been totally fine, right? Those are the learning moments. Yeah, I mean my god right right now. I'm in the Try to breathe with your mouth closed While you're sleeping no on camera Oh, yeah, cuz I'm a mouth breather guy and like I've noticed when when I'm not talking like dude He shut your fucking mouth. I know I Mean, I'm just thinking about like a page of dialogue or whatever Page of dialogue you just make it sound

Like you're in market shot talking. Yeah, and there's certain things. It's like if I'm talking I'm doing a lot of this I'm like, but don't you fucking see man man? It's like, whatever, whatever, whatever. And you're like in a tight, maybe you don't do that. But for the majority of it to maintain authenticity, you're doing the same fucking thing. Now there are also like the great Michael Caine, how to act on film stuff, which is don't blink, look at one eye, look at the corner of the eye

that's closest to the camera, all these little tricks that you definitely can employ, but the majority of it. You just gotta do it, gotta be in it. I think you have to, yeah, just make it sing. Yeah, yeah. I love that you feel like you're still trying to figure it out.

Are there things in comedy you feel like you're still trying to figure out, or you feel like you've got samurai status? No, no, there are things I wanna do. There are things like, later in my career, I started employing callbacks, you know, during the show. And then also physical comedy. For me, you know, I have a subtle physical comedy that's natural, but if I want to do

a bigger, broader bit, I got to figure out the beats. And I figure out the action and start repeating it. Like, you know, I did it at the end of my last special, I did a big physical bit and, you know, do you have timing out the physicality? So I want to get a laugh on that. And you'd never done that earlier in your career. No, no, no. I just kind of like got by with talking and impulse and, you know, and then

eventually sitting, but like I, you know, I've become aware that if I want to do these bigger bits, especially if they, they need physicality, I got to work them. I want to do these bigger bits, especially if they need physicality, I've got to work them. I've got to make physical choices. Yeah. I was watching a lot of, before I made my film, a lot of the Silence Buster Keaton, especially, and Charlie and Harold Lloyd.

And it's an amazing, especially thinking about comedy. Yeah. I'm reading this book that you may find it fascinating. I certainly do. It's called The Oral History of Hollywood. And these guys took all of these conversations that they had, not they, AFI had had, people in the industry starting in the 70s

with people that had went all the way back to the inception of film. But comedians coming from vaudeville, coming from the stage circuit, coming from where things were really big, coming from the silence where there's no words to speak of. So it's all in the face. It's all with the physical comedy. What they were able to do, like the breadth of how

they were able to use their body for comedy is just mind blowing. Totally. And over and over and over and over again. I think it's kind of like a lost art. I mean, it is a lost art. Yeah, unless you're a clown. I guess unless you're a clown, but I mean.

Some guys are really good at it. And if I'm jealous of anybody. Are there guys on the circuit that are more physical Yeah, yeah, I guess so But there are guys in movies that I can tell are are naturally gifted physical comedians And I'm always sort of a little jealous of it You know like back in the day like when Stiller sets his mind to it. Yeah, I mean he's funny as fuck Oh forget and same with what's his name?

You know the the Canadian who's- Carey. Carey, Jim Carey, no, the other one, the guy who, he's a big- Ryan Reynolds. Ryan Reynolds, great physical comedian. Great physical comedian. You know, and I don't know how much thought he puts into it,

but he can fucking do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? It's a thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There are guys, Kevin James, you know, is like just naturally just naturally there those guys that get on stage and they're just like they're so uncomfortable or they're just so in You know naturally expressive. Yeah, but that's a different thing. I mean, I think that's more of like you're not Yeah, you're just like that. Yeah, you look at someone like it There's something naturally funny happening with this human in his physical body that is fun to watch talking about like the art of

Whatever some guys do it the double take or whatever the fuck it would be right But if you watch like stiller and the thing about Mary, it's fucking nuts. Yeah, I mean it's like it's almost it's almost silent movies Swapstick status status. What comedians are you following now that you like? Well, I uh of the younger generation. I know, there's so many, though. You know, uh, Bargazzi is great. Nate, you know, and now I'm at that age where it's like, he used to open for me. You know, um, I remember that kid.

You know, there's some guys that, you know, can kind of do voices and, like, kind of tell a story with all the characters. I'm always sort of envious of that. Yeah. Maria Bamford's a genius. I don't know if I know Maria. Yeah, she's something.

I like Taylor Tomlinson. You know, she's a real deal. So you follow? Well, I see them when I go to work. Oh, yeah. So if I go to the Comedy Store, which if I'm in town, I'm there a couple nights a week, Fahim Anwar is great. He's just amazing.

So do you? He's very physical. He's funny. He can do all the voices. But you're not, do you, because you're around it so much in your life. Yeah. It's not like you're, are you watching Netflix

specials and... I do more now because if I talk to my peers, I want to, you know, know where they're at. Dave Vettel was just here. He's very funny. Yeah. So I watch them more now. Rory Scovel is, he has a new Netflix, uh, HBO special. Rory Scovel, great. Like very kind of disarming and kind of, you know,

does a lot of physical stuff, but deep, deep stuff. Like I was sort of surprised cause I always thought, and I've known him for years, I thought he was a goofball and I watched his special, I'm like, man, he's really doing the thing. What about you, actor-wise? Are there guys, like you worked with Denzel. What was, I mean, that must have been...

Oh, Denzel's a... He's a master. I mean, it's... That was so fun. What was that show, the Runaway Train one? What was that called? I mean, I grew up watching his stuff. So it was... I think I, most of the time, you know,

I was working with Tony Scott, who directed Top Gun, which is one of my favorite movies growing up, and I was working with Tony Scott, who directed Top Gun, which is one of my favorite movies growing up. And I was working with Denzel. The amount of the awe factor that was kind of just taking over. Ethan was in a different place in his career. I mean, I think you could count the number of films I made on one hand when I worked with Denzel. Well, you've done a lot, but maybe not that big a deal.

No, no, no, not at all. You'd already done Captain Kirk to a degree, right? I had done one. A movie. One Star Trek. Yeah. It's incredible, he's an incredible, his command of, I mean, I saw it all the way from the development

of the script through him working with Tony to obviously shooting. It was essentially a two-hander, because it was me the way from the development of the script through him working with Tony to obviously shooting. It was essentially a two-hander because it was me and him in the train. Yeah. So there was just me and him in a space, literally this big for months. It was like, you know, it was an acting class.

I learned like what he was able to, Nick's out of a backstory. There was a whole backstory that he had that had gotten a lot of airtime on screen that he didn't have no use for. Like, really? Like, what do you mean? He just knew that what he could deliver in terms of emotional, the bang for buck

of having Denzel on screen, he was able to achieve just by virtue of him showing up, negated having to have, explicating the relationship he had with his wife or whatever. And as a younger actor, I was concerned very much with having a moment to be able to talk about my wife or whatever.

But I learned a lot from his just confidence and knowing, which is what we were talking about before, what he was able to bring just by virtue of having a camera on his face. Well, how much of your education with the thing has just been on the job? I mean, did you study acting after college? I think it was all, I did plays in,

I went to a college, Berkeley, that didn't have a conservatory program or a theater program, but you know, I could have majored in theater, I didn't have majored in English. in a theater program, but you know, I could have majored in theater, I didn't have majored in English. Yeah.

A lot of it, I think, was, not I think. I learned most of my stuff just working. But you did theater before? I did a lot of theater in college and then after college. What'd you do after college? I think my producer kind of knew of you when you were up in Massachusetts.

I did two seasons at a place called the Williamstown Theatre Festival, which was a great kind of summer rep place in Williams. Before you did any TV or movies. Yeah. And then I did a one-man show in New York when I was about 25 called The Atheist. I did Neil Abut's Fat Pig in LA at the Geffen, and then I did Lieutenant Inishmore at the Geffen as well, at the Mark Taper. Yeah.

And then, yeah. So is that the thing? Did you think you were gonna be a theater guy? I definitely wanted to make it a large part of my career, and I was gonna actually move to New York before I got my first gig, and was dead set on pursuing it. And I would imagine it's just like, it's the closest I can get to what you get

is that energy of like, there's very little of that, of that aliveness when you're performing for a bunch of grips and gaffers. You know, and yeah. I had so much stage fright. I have recurring anxiety dreams that it's always the same thing. I'm about to go on stage, I've completely forgotten my lines

and I'm supposed to like sing a song that I have to make up on the spot. It's fucking terrifying. Terrifying. Yeah, but so the acting role started to come, like you did some TV? Yeah, I did some TV and then I got a film. Did you do like CSI?

I did CSI with Caruso. a film. Did you do like CSI? I did CSI with Caruso. With Caruso. How was that? I was wondering what happened to that guy, because I saw him on a, I saw him in a bit part in an old movie and I was just sort of like, oh, there he is.

It was, oh, I remember what it was. I watched Friedkin's Cruising the other night. Holy shit. It's funny, I was on Criterion or something. Yeah. I was going to watch that too. It popped up on the thing. It's a lot, dude. It's a lot.

Yeah. Is it good? I think it is. There is a sense that he's cramming as much gay in there as he can. Then they get gay in it. Real gay. Like Pacino's undercover in the meatpacking district in the 80s. And every bar, like every bar, there's like some guy blowing a guy, there's a guy fucking

a guy in the ass, and there's like some guy in a harness and another dude greasing up his hand. This is all in one bar. You know what I'm like, wow. It's in one, it's in a oner. Yeah, yeah. It's just a... It's a long oner.

He's getting it all in, literally. But it does have an interesting twist, and I do think that Caruso's in it for a second as a cop. And I always wonder what happened to that guy. Did you have a good experience with that guy? I mean, I think he did whatever, 12 seasons of that show. I know, yeah, that's enough, yeah, yeah.

Made a fortune, I just... It was, you know, it was, I played the bad guy, I raped my girlfriend, something awful, and... And... How old were you then? Uh, I was 20, 24. Yeah. And then, um, I killed my girlfriend with, uh, on the show.

Yeah. With the Saran Wrap. And in one take, I remember Carusa coming behind me and wrapping my face with the Saran Wrap, which was not scripted. Right. Which was terrifying. Yeah. And the producer goan wrap, which was not scripted, which was terrifying. Yeah. And the producer go, OK, cut, cut, cut.

Let's take five. Yeah. You know. Yeah. Worried that I was going to call Human Resources. Right. Why'd he do that? He wanted you to feel it?

I don't know. He's making a choice. He's making a choice. So wait, so Star Trek, that changed your whole life, right? Yep. And you're happy about it? I mean, yeah, absolutely.

How are the, do the Trekkies like you? I have no idea. Wow. I think it's, you know, I think it's as it goes. Some do, some don't. I'm sure there's really any way to fully win in that scenario. But I had a great time and I mean,

I really lucked out in terms of it was a great script. It was a great film. Yeah. And those great people to work with. Yeah. Completely changed the course of my career. And how did you study for Kirk, an established character? I was lucky in one regard is I hadn't seen a lot of the show. So I mean, I knew Shatner more is like a cultural icon right did as as an actor

Yeah, I was never a fantasy guy either so I like you know I had an idea and I watched the first season of the show and I got a sense of like what he was all about and JJ never wanted me to do anything other than just do me but It's inevitable when you're playing someone who's that fun to watch. Yeah. You can't not want to do Shatner.

Sure. At some point in the process. Right. You know, here and there I'd throw in a little, a little Shat just to make the day go by. You do a chat flourish? Yeah, and a chat flourishes anything from how you sit in a chair to cross your legs,

or how he does a thing with his jaw that's very particular. So you just, you flavor it, like you're making a soup. Not too much. So you didn't get locked into a TV Star Trek, you just did the movie? Just did, you know, not too much. So you didn't get locked into a TV Star Trek, you just did the movie. Just did, I did three movies. Three. I did one in 2007 and one in 2002.

Oh yeah, Into the Darkness. And then one in 2016. Now the Jack Ryan thing, was it, it wasn't quite a franchise when you did it, was it? I mean, it was a franchise insofar as they'd done, you know, they'd done a bunch of different ones with Harrison Ford and Alec Baldwin, mostly Harrison, and then they hadn't done a film, no, that's not true.

Ben Affleck did a film, and then I did a film, my film flopped, and then they did the show with Krasinski. And that kind of, oh, so that was just a TV show, not the movies. Yeah. Oh, okay. So that's how he locked into it. Yeah.

Yours flopped? Didn't do well, didn't do well. What do you think, what happened? Really one of the big regrets. I love that character so much. I mean, I grew up watching all of those films. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, it just didn't connect.

Yeah. Do you, when you watch movies that don't connect that you're in, do you see it, how often have you thought it was your fault? Never. Good. I think it's, you know, film is the most collaborative art,

maybe more collaborative than anything else. There's so many cooks in the kitchen. Sure, sure. No, I would never, I'd never say that about myself. I think I showed up to myself. I think I... showed up to work. I know I show up to work all the time. Yeah, yeah. There's never one time that I'm like, you know...

I tell you though, man, that, that Hell or High Water, I watched that a few times. Thanks, man. I fucking love that movie. It's a great film. It's great! It's a really good... just good Western, man.

Yeah! And you guys acted the fuck out of that thing. We had a blast. I bet. He guys acted the fuck out of that thing. We had a blast. I bet. He's an intense fucker, that Foster. Oh, he's the best. I mean, I interviewed him. I interviewed him.

Oh yeah? Yeah, and I was nervous. Were you really? Yeah, yeah, because he's one of those guys that's like, what is this guy really like? I mean, what am I gonna be dealing with? Because he's one of those transformational actors. 100%.

I think the thing about Ben is that underneath all of the intensity is a really sweet, he's just a sweet, he's a sweetie pie. Yeah. You know, like he's a sweetie pie and he's tremendously gifted and he's able to channel, you know, like he's a sweetie pie and he's tremendously gifted and he's able to channel his beautiful, complicated spirit into his work. But really at the end of the day, he's a simple teddy bear.

It's interesting because you've got to be like the kind of the grounded dude. Yeah, it's really fun. And did you know, like I mean, I guess it's just in the script that you had this, this brother who was, you know, a little. Yeah, I had, cause the script that Taylor had written was so, it was like cowboy poetry. So I know that I knew that the character I was playing was of a certain breed of kind of, I don't know,

Gary Cooper or just the silent stoic type. I was really excited to, I had never gotten a chance to do something like that. I had such an image in my mind of this guy and how I was going to play him. And yeah, it was great. Like, it was very simple. I was the quiet stoic type.

Ben was the fucking insane brother. And it's like, that I was the quiet, stoked type. Ben was the fucking insane brother. And it's like, that's how the two fit together. And it, it, it, we immediately, we'd done a film, we had just done a film together, Ben and I. So we had spent a lot of time together. A film called Finest Hours. Okay.

So you knew how each other worked. Yeah. That's good. So it was, it was easy as not, yeah, it was just relatively seamless. It was like an easy camaraderie. Right. But it's interesting when you know it's a genre film that's honoring the genre. And so you're like-

Well, yeah, I mean, it's one of the very few scripts I've read in my career, and I've read, I don't know, a handful where you finish it, and you're like, that is a perfect fucking, you could shoot that right now. Yeah. And not change a word, and so long as no one fucks up and gets in its way, it's great. And that was one of them. So, and it read like, it was, you know, I call them like music boxes.

They're just, you open it and it plays just the right notes of what that is, which is- It's rare, right? Yeah. I mean, rare, it's one in a- Yeah. Once in a blue moon. I just read one and they attached me to it and I was excited about it It was a dark comedy and now it's a little stalled and I don't know if it's gonna happen

But you know, I don't get offered a ton of like stuff, but this one they had me in mind and it was like Oh my god, this is the fucking greatest script. This is like it just because it's tight You know like you get no point you like what's happening now or you're like, god, it's tight. You know, like at no point are you like, what's happening now? Or you're like, god, the first act needs some help. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like that scene they could like, we should rework that. It's so nice to be like, no, that just is.

It's just all there. What's happening with the thing? I don't know. I think that they're looking for maybe bigger talent, so maybe I won't be attached. I don't know how it's gonna happen, but. Is there money behind it? Yeah, there's some, but they, they, they

kind of got stalled on getting all of it. Um, how much is it? It's not, it's not a lot. Small movie, you know, it's a shoots here. Yeah. I know it would be great. I was, I was ready to spend my summer doing that and then it just went away.

And then I got offered this other thing where I actually have to go out of town and it was like, just, you know, at like, just at this point in my life where I don't need to do anything really, it's a tough decision. And I don't even have a family. It's not even really a tough decision. What a great thing.

You don't have to fucking work if you don't wanna work. It's gotta be that right thing. Right, but there's also the thing that is like, well, if you wanna act and you turn this down. But I asked you in the beginning of this, do you like acting? You're like, I think I do. Well, that's enough.

There's a part of me, look, man, I'm fucking 60, and certain things, everything that I've wanted to do has happened, but nothing's ever really blown up. You know, I'm a work. So you're waiting for the blown up thing. Well, I mean, look, I did glow on Netflix. Yeah. And that was good. Yeah.

And I like doing that. I like the character. I like the way it came out. It was a unique, interesting thing. But it's not like at 60, all of a sudden, I'm going to be like, thank god we have a new leading man. It's not going to happen. And that's sort of it.

But do you want that? I don't know. It's a childhood fantasy. Whether I want it or not, it doesn't matter, is what I'm telling you. That's very true. You know, so I'm going to be like the cranky sidekick. It's a childhood fantasy. Whether I want it or not, it doesn't matter, is what I'm telling you. That's very true. So I'm gonna be like the cranky sidekick

and it's just a one version of that. But this is a very, this is a media conversation, starting point. You just said most things that you've wanted in your career have happened. Yes. But yet you still have that- A little off to the side.

Okay, whatever. All intents and purposes of the game all have to work out. Yes. But yet you still have that. A little off to the side. OK. Whatever. Yeah. All intents and purposes of the label are fine to work out. Yes. But you still have that little bit of static energy of the frustration of something hasn't quite clicked yet. If you were to articulate that.

It's childish. No, but what is it? I'm curious. Well, you want to be like, hey, there's that guy. You want to be loved more. I guess. That makes all the sense in the world. Just so I can push it away.

I mean, I don't want it. I know exactly what that's all about. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And how have you dealt with it? You know, 25 years of therapy. And I think, you know, this film is a great for someone like me

that has the same thing that you... The new movie, Pullman. Pullman. Yeah. It premiered in Toronto, got absolutely annihilated critically. Oh no. So the love didn't come, the love didn't come. The love didn't come.

Yeah. So for someone who's a needy artist, to really get very real with what it is. I'm like, you know, what, what, what that static energy is all about. Um, that's where I'm at. Like, what is it all about? Am I going to get it? Do I need it? Is it worth it?

Is there sustenance there? Is it a viable? And it's just not, quite honestly. It's just not, because it's never gonna be enough. The hole's never gonna get filled. That's right. Yeah. You mean the God-shaped hole?

The God-shaped hole. Yeah, that fucker. That fucking fucker. Yeah, I fill it with a lot of coffee. Coffee and nicotine. Coffee and nicotine, dude. No, pal, no idea. Yeah, you know it's a, yeah, I can't do any other shit.

I've been sober for 25 years. That didn't work out. God damn it. But this is one of those things where, like I was pushing back on it, even though I know I could do it, It's kind of a role I could do. And, and there's still that part of me where the last movie I did, I, I engaged some craft. I did an accent. The last two roles, they weren't me. I was able to shut off.

I find that in terms of acting, a lot of what you do is like, well, the parts that aren't me, I just shut off. Like, you know, this guy... Whoa, whoa, whoa, what? I mean, like, if the character I'm playing is not neurotic, then I'm not. Then I can turn that part of me off and still show up as the guy. Gotcha.

So the craft in place is like, you know, don't be self-reflective. Gotcha. Right? Those are choices. Right. Continue. So, uh, so the point is, is that this one, there's still a couple things that I've learned reflective. Got you. Right? Those are choices. Right. Continue. So the point is, is that this one, there's still a couple of things that I've learned

since the last acting I've done that I'd like to try to employ and see if I can show up for it. Yeah, yeah. I've been told emotionally I can do it. I can listen. I can be present. Yeah. But what's going to make it not so three days in, I'm like, no, no, I'm not doing anything and no one's giving me notes and they're signing off on this shit

And so I guess I'm just gonna do this So it's sound okay. So it sounds like for what I'm hearing from you. Yeah good therapy talk Yeah, what I hear you saying here is that you want to disappear into something and kind of forget about mark for a second That'd be wow. Is that possible? I mean. I don't know, can you do it? No. Okay.

No hope there. No. No. All right, but let's talk about like, before we like just, you know, talk about Pool Man, with these Marvel movies, like, you know, you did Wonder Woman. I did Wonder Woman, yeah. That's a DC film, Mark.

Oh, I was in a DC movie. I prefer the DC movies. Good man. I had one scene in Joker with De Niro. That was a big day. Oh yeah, fucking A. Oh yeah. Yeah, I'm his producer.

Fuck. That was kind of funny. You weren't there for the bloodletting or no? Sure, I had to be. I was, when he gets shot. Fuck. That was kind of funny. You weren't there for the bloodletting or no? Sure I had to be. I was, when he gets shot. Yeah. Yeah, because you know, I was on set, I was the producer of the TV show.

So I had to stand there for a week without doing anything but standing there. Oh my God. Oh, that's great fun. I've done that before. Yeah, but the bloodletting was all done after. So it was interesting to watch DeNiro work. Oh my God, I was gonna say shit.

Because it's like, you know, you're watching him and you're just looking at him as a person on a set doing this thing. And part of me was like, oh God, how are they gonna make this work? But he knows. About Robert De Niro. Right. Because his process, you know, as he gets older is that, you know, he likes to load up the lines,

it seems, with that role, almost on set with some of them. He's playing the TV guy. He's made a choice about the guy, which is fine, and it was good, but the way it cut together, I was like, holy shit, he knew the whole time. Because he's such a pro that whatever he was working with in the moment that wasn't locking in, it didn't matter. Because they'd find the ones that did,

and you'd get your money's worth. Well, that is definitely a big learning process with film. It took me forever to remember, is like, it is... The film is an art form made in the edit. Yeah, totally. So it's like, you don't have to be on stage and get the whole scene right. Were you offered Marvel shit?

No. No. No. Was that something like, like Wonder Woman is a big movie. Yeah. For the DC movie. I mean, but during the time that I get, think I would have, I was doing those,

the two Wonder Woman films and Happy as a Clam. Yeah. It's a good gig. Yeah, it's a good gig? Yeah, it's a great gig and I love working with Patty and Gal and my character's not a superhero which I really liked playing just a normal guy. The pilot guy? Yeah.

Yeah. It was great fun. So this, like the movie that I watched last night, it's weird and I didn't mention it before with Hell or High Water. It's like that was the first time I was like, who the fuck's this guy? That's cool, all right.

You know what I mean? I'll take it. Yeah, I was like, there's a movie star here, does everyone know about this guy? You go on Reddit, guys. Yeah, yeah, I don't know if you know this, but this guy Pine's a movie star. So how does, because I get like, you know,

all the references or most of them, there's probably layers of them in Poolman. Cause I just watched China, I watched Chinatown like three times a year. It's the best. Right, it's totally the best. Oh my God, I just saw it at the Los Feliz 3. Oh my God.

Curly when you're right, you're right and you're right. Burt Young. B Bert Young's great. Clamping onto the blinds. Oh! But it's a deep reference for this movie. I mean, even on the plot line. I think it is in some ways, I mean. It's about water.

I mean, it's about water and it's about LA and he watches Chinatown, I think. I mean, uh... It's about water. I mean, it's about water, and it's about LA, and he watches Chinatown, I think. And then this whole... This... insane plot that happens to lead to the end with a moment with the femme fatale. But, um, I guess I never really thought about it. It's... There's noir elements to it.

It's essentially every film I've ever watched seemingly put through my brain and come out the other end. It's like there's elements of, you know, like screwball comedy. I'd watched Bogdanovich, I'd seen the What's Up Doc and really loved that. And David O'Russell certainly with how families talk

and how the overlapping neurotic chaos of families... And you got great casts, you got Benning, you got DeVito. Yeah. Jennifer Jason Lee. I lucked out, yeah. DeWanda Wise. And who's the guy playing? Even Chobolowski, who I love. I haven't seen him in a while. He's the thing.

He's great. And the guy who played your buddy? Oh, John Ortiz, yeah. He's great. I've been seeing him a lot lately. He was in American Fiction recently. Yeah, I saw him in that. He was like, there's some amazing stuff

in Silver Linings playbook with him. Amazing. Amazing, yeah. That's right, I'd seen that right before, and I was like, oh, John Ortiz is it. John Ortiz is it. And he was excited to do it? Yeah, he was great.

Everybody had a, we had a blast. It was a lot of fun. So your character though, the pool guy, that's just, to me, like, there's a little Lebowski to it. Yeah, there's Lebowski to it in some regard. I mean, Darren, my character doesn't, there's no drinking, there's no pot smoking, and I think instead of-

But there's meditating. There's meditating, but I think instead of like, a Lebowski who's, I characterize as like, deep passivity and by virtue of this story happening to him has to become active, but resents it. I think my character's way more. It's like the opposite. Yeah, he's like a big beating heart.

He's like a puppy dog. But also I think what I liked about it is that it is a specifically California character. Like that guy, like if you live here long enough. 100%. That guy's, you know. These guys that you've seen on, getting back to like growing up in the industry,

the... there's an LA that's, uh, really romantic. There's, like, a P.T. Anderson LA, that's, like, kind of deep valley. The one I was exploring was definitely the kind of outcasts of the Hollywood dream that, like, had touched the Hollywood dream and were, had been actors or acted before. Yeah. Or had been a director.

But had never really made it and ended up living in this, in this kind of, in this rundown motel. And that was kind of my ode to... This is a fucking hard town. And I've been very lucky, my parents have been very lucky, but I know the other side of people's scratches, clawing, trying to get in.

And there's this crew, this group of people is definitely in that world, I think. Yeah, and when you wrote this thing, you had decided that you wanted to write and direct. Not really, man. This began because I had this title pullman and this guy's name, Darren Bearman, and it just really made me laugh.

I kept on thinking about it, and it rolled around in my head, and a year went by, and it was still rolling around in my head. And then I tried to hire a screenwriter and met the screenwriter a couple of times, but then he was off busy doing something and then COVID hit and going through some personal stuff. And I was like, fuck it. So I sat down with my writing partner, my producing partner. We, we spend a lot of time, we wrote it,

and then it just seemed at that point, because as I was writing it, I saw the whole thing, and this began as much bigger kind of conception of a story that was much more fantasy, I would say. Yeah. And then I just ended up directing it. It just seemed like it fantasy, I would say. Yeah. And then I just ended up directing it. It just seemed inevitable, basically. Yeah, there's still a lot of fantasy to it.

Oh yeah, there is... This was certainly something I thought about before, but it has really become concrete watching it again. It's like, this is a film as if it were made by a guy named Darren Bearman. As if like Darren Bearman, this poor man, had got the dream of his life to make a film. There's like a DIY quality to it that,

that I don't know, makes me fucking, it just makes me laugh. And it's completely, you know, there's a cop thing at the end that's like, not really totally sure if they're really cops or not. Or if this is just like what Darren wants to happen. Right, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh yeah, and how much of it, in terms of your relationship with DeVito and Benning's characters,

was kind of based on your life? A lot of it, I mean, my mother was an actress who became a psychotherapist. She's not a Jungian analyst, but she's a psychotherapist. Jack Denisoff, who is DeVito, he's a former B-movie director that made horror films in the 80s

and hasn't gotten anything going on for a long time. Has a very, uh, um, questionable relationship with his agent, uh, who may not be returning his calls or has ever returned his calls. So I, you know, again, it's like growing up in my household that was, there was work, there was no work, there were periods of like pretty financially desperate times. And, you know, rolling around in that world of, uh, what's my next shot?

Like, you know, put me in coach. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely. You know, I also like that the Pullman does not do one job. No, his job is taking care of the pool at this apartment complex. And that seems to be the only pool he takes care of. Yeah, yeah. And like, well, Jennifer Jason was great,

but DeVito's so like, to see Benning and DeVito and you, like, that guy can just show up, it seems, and be DeVito and just nail it. Danny DeVito is the happiest actor I've ever met in my entire life. He loves doing it. He is happy doing press. He is happy doing a bit with craft service.

He's happy watching Monitor. He's happy watching the fucking premiere. He loves every part of our job. And so, so joyful to be around someone who's been in it and has done, if you look at his fucking career, it's mind boggling. And he begins, he begins one floor over the Cuckoo's next,

then he gets Taxi, then his career, then he starts, then he directs, then he does fucking Hoffa amongst many other things, then he does Jersey Films, He produces Pulp Fiction. I mean, his career spans a hell of a lot of filmmaking. So, and to have the two of them together, you know, and Ned works stylistically in one different way, and Danny works in a whole different way,

and they love one another, and to direct both of them was a dream. And what was your first decision? Because I want to direct a movie, I'm trying to put one together with my buddy's book. What was your first, like when you knew you were going to do it, what did you put in place first? Like a DP, like what was your thoughts?

I got a DP and a costume designer. I got a DP, I got my costume designer, then I got my production designer. I got a DP. I got my costume designer. Then I got my production designer. Locations was a was kind of a nightmare just because everybody was booked and we had no money ever. Locations was was tricky, much trickier than I thought much more expensive than I thought. Because he shot it all here. Yeah. No tax breaks. I shot here on film with tax breaks, 21 days. Oh wow, so you knocked it out.

So yeah, it was a lot. And no, no, and then I got my sound guy, because the sound guy, Peter Devlin, I'd worked with since I was like, I don't know, 25 or something, and just won an Academy Award and it was a big deal and really saved me. And who was that actress who played the femme fatale?

D'Wanda Wise. She's great. Great, isn't she? Yeah, where's she from? I mean, what's she been in? She, Jurassic Park was the last big film she was in right now. She's in a new film, a horror film,

called Imaginary, I think for Jason Blum. She's lovely and came in. I lost my actress very close to shooting and it just so happened she lived down the street from where we were shooting at the Tiki-T, the motel, and it was easy as pie and just a joy to work with.

Wow, so that worked out. Yeah, totally. Now, the motel, and it was easy as pie and just a joy to work with. Wow, so that worked out. Yeah, totally. Now, after all is said and done here and it's out in the world, I mean, I'm gonna do another. 100%. It's such a high, I can't even tell.

I've been in a state of, I think, profound grief for a year because the, exactly what you were talking about. I've always wanted to make a film... Speed is not something that has ever been a part of the filmmaking process that I've been a part of. And because the acting, directing component of it is that there's no downtime,

it always feels like you're creating. Yeah. And it's like a high. It's like, um, I can't imagine, um, I can't imagine not doing it again. And I have some ideas that are totally different than, than Pullman that have kind of turned me on. So, but then you also see like, my God, and if

you're getting, about to get into the process, what you, the, it's just the incredible amount of time as an actor, as a comic, it's like you show up, do your bit, you're gone. And then you show up to the fucking premiere of You Later. And these poor motherfuckers, it's years, it's been four years of my life, more or less. Right, that's what's always kind of-

It's like unfuckin' believable. Because then not only do you finish the edit, then you're waiting for the thing to come out. Then you have to work on the marketing process. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a hell of a thing. That's always why I've been turned, like not wanting to do it. I talk to guys who are like,

yeah, this took five years to make. I'm like, I'm out. Yeah, I get it. I'm with you, man. But are you gonna be in the thing that you wanna direct? Just for a smaller part. Because I've directed, when I did my TV show, I've directed episodes of it,

and I didn't really get the feeling that I was really directing. It was just like, I do a shot and we didn't have money or time to really play back as much as I wanted, so I just had to rely on the DP to be like, yeah, we got it. I'm like, you sure? Yeah, good.

I think also too, because you already get that high from being on stage. Like I'm chasing that, I'm chasing the, it could all collapse at any moment. You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I, yeah, but I mean, I don't wanna be in the movie. I do wanna produce it and I'm working with my friend

to kind of put the script together. And it's like, and I don't know who's, it's a young people's movie, so I don't even know those actors. So it'll be interesting if we get it over, get it into shape and make it happen. Are you excited about it? Very, to the point where I never really wanted to direct

because it just takes so much time. But is your experience, because it's mine, it's like you just can't, it seems like it's inevitable and will happen. Well, yeah, that's how certain things in my life have happened. That's so, me too. That like, for, no matter how it's received my life have happened that like, you know for you know for No matter how it's received or whatever It's like I want to try and you get to a point where you put that in your heart in your mind

And then you know all of a sudden it's like I'm ready to try and then exactly right, right? That's exactly what happened to me. Yeah, and I can't imagine this process happening any other way, right? Especially I also You're dreaming about it. You're like daydreaming, you're thinking about shots, and you're like, oh, that would be cool. I mean, that's the process that's happening. And also, going into something for the first time, there's that other part from having experience

in show business where you're like, it might not be perfect, it might not be whatever, but I'm gonna do it. You know what I mean? And having been in things that were never seen, or I knew when I did my series on IFC that I don't know how to do this acting thing really, so for two seasons I'm gonna not know

what to do with my hands or whatever. Like I'm gonna notice that I don't know how to do this, but there's no other way. I'm gonna have to take the hit. And it's fucking thrilling. What's really thrilling about it too is, and I'm sure you feel that about your shows, like, you know, at the end of the day, from A to Z, from the moment of the first fucking

pebble in my brain to the moment where the last piece of marketing goes out before the premiere, I have ownership of that whole thing. That's right. For better or for worse. Right. You may not like it or whatever, but it's mine. Yeah. And that is rad. It is rad.

And in the sort of media climate, where there's just so much shit out there, you don't even have to judge it in relation to anything. You're just sort of like, if this gets seen anywhere, we've delivered the goods. God, isn't that the truth. Yeah. Good talking to you, man.

You too. Oh, we've delivered the goods. God, isn't that the truth? Yeah. Yeah. Good talking to you, man. You too. ["SWELL GUY"] There you go. What a good guy. Swell Guy. Enjoy talking to him. Pool Man, his new movie is in theaters Friday, May 10.

Hang out for a minute, people. Folks, May 6 through Mayth is Mental Health Week, a time to raise awareness about mental health that's centered on the healing power of compassion. And during Mental Health Week, CAMH needs your support to build a future where no one is left behind. CAMH is the Center for Addiction and Mental Health, and they're hard at work creating better treatments and interventions for anyone experiencing addiction. Part of that work is about the understanding of the brain and CAMH is transforming patient care by knocking down the

barriers that keep people from getting help. Imagine how lonely it can feel to be facing mental illness or addiction on your own. You don't have to surrender to hopelessness because CAMH is conducting groundbreaking research to fight addiction and get people the help they need. In Canada, we lose 20 people to drug overdose every single day. Right now, you can partner with CAMH to help send those numbers in the other direction. Help change mental health care forever during mental health week. Donate at camh.ca slash wtf to help camh treat addiction and build hope. That's camh.ca slash wtf. From fleet management to flexible truck rentals to technology solutions at enterprise mobility,

we help businesses find the right mobility solutions so they can find new opportunities. Because if your business is on the road, we wanna make sure it's on the road to success. Enterprise Mobility, moving you moves the world. On Thursday's show, comedian Joe Mandi is back and if you're a WTF Plus subscriber, you can go listen to episode 142,

which was Joe's first episode where he told some pretty great stories. In ninth grade, I took Spanish in high school. It was the only non-honors class I ever took. And it, I showed up the first day, ninth grade, so I was very short and braces and sweater vest. I don't know why braces and sweater vests. I don't know why I wore sweater vests.

And I... What made you do that? What? I thought it was cool. And I got into Spanish the first day of class and it was just me and basically me and like the JV basketball team. That was the class basically. And I was like, it'll be fine.

I listened to Outkast or whatever. And I sit down and they were just ruthless. They would make fun of me. They would call me names. They would choke me. I got choked a lot, but it was never violent. They just would come up from behind when I wasn't expecting it and like rap.

Sometimes it was like piano wire. I don't like, they had piano wire. They would like wrap wire around my neck and I would freak out obviously. And then they would let go and just crack up. They'd be like, haha. You stupid. Yeah. Yeah, you know, he's like He's writing for the right reason right? What an idiot right? What an idiot. I was like how stupid of me to freak out Yeah So it was just it was bad and they would throw like empty cans of soda at my head and stuff It was just it sucked sucked. And then-

And the teacher just let this happen? Yeah, our teacher, that Spanish teacher was so broken. You know, she was so done with life that she like, it was chaos. Like when she was an older public school teacher. Yep, she looked like Newman from Seinfeld, so everyone called her Newman. Oh my God.

Like that was, she'd be able to call her Ms. Newman and she would respond to it. I mean, it was bad. And then that December our our principal Made this big announcement that there are no more gambling was allowed in the hallways. I think was there gambling Yeah, people like play dice in the hallways and stuff and and I Was crazy And we active dice games there are guys games

They were by the Asian come like the Asian kids would have break dance competitions in between classes. In the hallway. In the hallway. And I actually started doing this thing. It's like, it's, I do it on stage sometimes too. I got really good at making it look like I was about to start break dancing. Cause actually I was just trying to get through the hallway, right? But I would get in the middle of this like big circle and it would be like my turn and I would start like moving around to the to the music and like you know pumping my shirt and making it look like I was about and I would just do it until they realized I was never gonna start breaking I would go for like two minutes without actually

doing any dancing before they like pushed me out of the circle but anyway but back to the story so our principal she instituted this no gambling policy and I I saw an opportunity and I went up to these kids in the back of my class and I was like, you know, I can teach you a gambling game that you'll never get in trouble for playing if you just stop choking me, right? Was that clear?

There was a negotiation. Yeah, it was a clear negotiation. And they thought about it and the next day, I taught them how to play dreidel for money stop I swear and so for like a good month outside my Spanish class You would walk by and just see these black kids and like Averix jackets huddled over a top Yeah, just like yo, that's a W motherfucker pay That's episode 142 and it's available without ads if you have any

WTF plus subscription Go to the link in the episode description to sign up or go to WTF pod comm and click on WTF plus Before we go this episode is sponsored by better help online therapy have something to get off your chest like work stress or relationship Issues, whatever it is therapy is a safe space to work through what's weighing you down So you're free to focus on other things. BetterHelp offers professional, affordable online therapy on a flexible schedule. Start the process in minutes and switch therapists anytime. Let it out with BetterHelp.

Learn more at betterhelp.com. That's betterH-E-L-P dot com. And just a reminder before we go this podcast is hosted by a cast So So So Boomer lives, monkey and Lafonda, cat angels everywhere.