WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1545 - Larry David

Episode Date: June 6, 2024

Larry David says he regrets saying yes to everything right after he agrees to do it. But it’s too late to back out of the garage now, so he’ll try to convince Marc that he actually has a much better disposition than the Larry David character on Curb Your Enthusiasm. Larry talks with Marc about his early days at Catch a Rising Star, how he found his familiar character while working on Joy Behar’s Lifetime show, his fights with network executives, and the origin stories of Seinfeld and Curb.  Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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This is my podcast welcome to it as you can hear I'm back up in Canada in Vancouver In this room in this condo that I'm looking out over the city over the city of Vancouver over the Vancouver art gallery Over the the the whole thing I can I can see it right now. Oh over the whole thing. I can see it right now. Oh my god, what is happening? How's everybody doing? Are you alright? God bless. I just took a like a nap that was supposed to be like a half hour and it went on for a while. I don't know. I think that maybe, I think maybe this some of this traveling sometimes just a big shift and You can't hide from it. Like I'm thinking like no big deal. I'll just jump on the plane get off the plane

I'll just you know, yeah, just not a big deal It's just it's just a couple hours where I'm just doing you know, just it's just part of what I do But there's something about it, I think that exhausts me according to my fitness watch that I don't understand. Today on the show, Larry David is here. Now look, everyone knows who he is. Everyone knows who Larry David is. He's Larry David and he just wrapped 12 seasons of Curb Your Enthus your enthusiasm some of you know that I did a live event with him that was pretty fun he wanted me to interview him that that could have been a podcast but that was not the way that was gonna

go was out of my control folks that was not what happened but it was a good show and then here we here we are a few weeks later doing the talk in the garage and it was great to garage and it was great to see him. It was great to see Larry. I was happy to do it. He's a mysterious character in the sense that before this last season of Curb, you didn't hear much from him at all.

But either way, I'm happy that Larry talked to me. It's funny. All right. So let me just, all right, I'll just tell ya, in order to feel comfortable in that, you know, grounded or that I can handle, you know, long stints away from home, I think I've almost furnished this apartment. I brought a guitar up so I can sit here and plink around.

I got a Google Chromecasting, which I probably could have just got another Apple TV. I don't know. They have a TV up here, but I don't know if you've ever had to experience the choices on Canadian basic cable, but not great. Not great. All I know is there's a lot of channels dedicated to shows that I don't think have been on in 50 years.

Not knocking it, you know, maybe, maybe that's just the way it goes up here. They actually also have an entire Conan O'Brien channel. I think that does, should we tell Conan? Does he know that exists? But I think you can watch the rifleman and gun smoke up here almost anytime. I imagine you can in the States. Maybe I'm just being picky, but I guess I I've limited options on whatever this plan is at this apartment.

So I got a Chromecast and I don't even know, you know, it seems like magic, but it's scary magic. When you just hook something up to a TV and you're going through apps and it's asking you to scan little squares with the strange, you know, little pattern on them. And all of a sudden you're hooked up to a whole different thing in another country. And it seems like it's the same as home,

but you didn't do anything to do that. There was no, I don't know how it works. And does anyone, isn't this how we get into trouble? Isn't this how you find out after three years that somebody has financed four houses on your social security number Isn't this how that happens? Is there a way to protect ourselves? Am I overthinking it? Anyway, I have a show up here in Vancouver on Friday June 21st at the Vogue Theatre Then I'm in Seattle on Saturday June 22nd at the Moore Theatre and tickets to my show in Phoenix on Saturday September 21st at the Orpheum Theater are now on sale. You can get tickets now during the pre-sale with the passcode ALLIN. That's one word ALLIN.

Tickets are on sale to the general public tomorrow. The link is at WTFOD.com slash tour where you can also find the rest of my dates this fall and next year. So Larry David, the myth, the legend, it's funny, we didn't talk, I don't think we talked about this on the show. I might have talked about it when it happened many years ago. I don't even know if I was doing, I don't think I was doing the podcast yet. It was years ago, I think I was still on Air America, if that's possible.

And I don't know what season Curb was in, but it was enough to understand what Curb was. It was enough to where if you watched Curb at all, you kind of got the time zone of Curbier enthusiasm. It has a specific vibe because of the improvisational nature of it. There's something very specific about how Curb feels to watch. And I'd never met Larry before, I don't think. One time, oh my God, yeah, years ago, one time we interviewed his wife on Air America,

cause she was involved with something and it was a very, uh, uh, not a great phone interview because I called her Cheryl, who is Larry's TV wife. And I apologized to her and she goes, that's never happened before. And that was sort of the end of the, any possible good vibe to that interview. I remember that, but I remember, and that was years ago, they were still married,

but I remember running into Larry at the airport, and we were waiting for the plane, the board, and I introduced myself to him, and I told him who I was. He says, oh yeah, I know who you are. I know who you are. Yeah, I listen to the Air America. So I was so thrilled that he knew who I was. And it was very nice and we talked for a while.

And I was just, I was flattered that I had any recognition factor, especially with Larry David. But then again, I did interview his ex-wife on the air. But nonetheless, so the playing boards, and obviously he boards with Group One, and I see him go on and we've had a nice conversation. The real point to this is,

right when you start talking to Larry, if you've ever watched Curb, you feel like you're in an episode of Curb. There's no other way to feel. You're not meeting a person, you're meeting this character who primarily improvises on his show. So the vibe is sort of similar because he's not being his essential self, because I didn't know him,

but he's being the Larry I know from television, and that's Curb. And there was a feeling that I had entered an episode of Curb. And then like, you know, he boards first, and then, you know, I board with Coach, and I walk by him, he's like, hey, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, and I walk by him, and I like, hey, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, and I walked by him,

and I thought, well, this would actually be a pretty good plot for a Curb Your Enthusiasm episode, at least some side story about him feeling self-conscious because someone he knows has to walk by him and sit and coach, and he's sitting first class. I don't know where that storyline would go, but it felt essentially, maybe you know, so you're better than me, Larry, is that what this implies?

I don't know, but I did feel at that time that I was in an episode of Curb, and that was the only way to think about it, and I wondered what he was thinking. And to sort of tie that up, when I was in DC interviewing him, he said he remembered that, and that he remembered thinking at that time

that he was gonna board, and it was gonna be awkward, because I was gonna have to walk by him into the coach section. And he remembered feeling that it was awkward moment, which is essentially Larry David. That is essentially what he's about, awkward moments. But I was just so happy that my feelings at that time

were not wrong. Now, it would have been nice if I, it was actually being on the show, but that did not happen for me. I auditioned once and I don't know, didn't matter. None of it mattered. Never made the show. Doesn't matter. He's here today. Folks, listen to me.

Are you listening? Listen to me. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. It's already June people that was fast So let's slow things down for a second take a moment to think about stuff. You've already accomplished this year I bet there's more than you think for me. I started my tour. I talked with a living legend Carol Burnett I continued to have great conversations in my garage. I started a new job on a TV series, there's a lot. When life goes fast it's important to take a moment to take it all in and also set your sights on what to do for the

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So look, I was thrilled to talk to Larry. Again, 12 seasons of Curb Your Enthusiasm are streaming on Max. There will be no more. That is it for that. I don't really know what he's going to be doing, if anything. He didn't let on, but it doesn't seem like

anybody ever stops working. Am I the only one that thinks almost daily about not working anymore? Am I, is that, am I crazy? I know a lot of people say, well you know, if you stop working you die. I'm like, I don't know. I'm not sure. I'm not sure I would. Do I have ADHD? Does anyone know? Could somebody help me out? Please somebody, could somebody diagnose me now? Anyways, Larry David is here and I mentioned 12 seasons of Curb Your Enthusiasm

were streaming on Macs? I think I did. If you've never watched it, go watch three, and it's like a different time zone. Anyways, we're about to enter it. This is me talking to Larry David. With VisiHeart Seltzer, you can follow your vibe. Whether you're looking to bring the energy

to your next pre-drink with our new 7% ABV Vizzy Max pack, or indulge in a leisurely afternoon brunch with our refreshing mimosa pack, Vizzy has got you covered. Discover our other variety packs for even more flavors like papaya passion fruit, blackberry lemon, and pineapple mango. This summer, bring a splash of extra to any occasion with Vizzy Hart Seltzer.

Find Vizzy at a retailer near you. For more info, visit vizzihartselzer.ca. Must be legal drinking age. From fleet management to flexible truck rentals to technology solutions. At Enterprise Mobility, we help businesses find the right mobility solutions so they can find new opportunities. Because if your business is on the road, we want to make sure it's on the road to success. Enterprise Mobility. Moving you moves the world. This goes out. Yeah. What did you think? Was it fancier?

No. I mean, I don't know. It's kind of what I pictured. It is? Yeah. Except I thought you'd be sitting like this. Oh yeah? Yeah. Like, were you expecting video? There's no video.

Good. Yeah. Do you want to, uh... You want me to, you want to test? Do you want... Huh? Testing? No, I just want you to...

Move it over? Put the mic in front of you. Like this? You can move it anywhere you want. It goes right up by your mouth. Okay, okay, there you go. Okay. You feel all right?

Yeah. Now you got to, yeah, you can, you've been on a mic before. Oh yeah. You want to? I turned my phone off. You have nothing, nothing to be concerned about. The phone is the least of my worries.

We probably just should have run that, what we did. Why are you even gonna say that to me? Why would you even say that to me? Why would you even say that to me? Jesus Christ. Well, this could be better. I don't know. The thing was is that with that thing, it was funny. I'll tell you honestly, I thought it went great. Me too.

Yeah. It was great. It was entertaining. It was. I chose, you know not to you know get in the way Yeah, you you were you were great. Thanks. You were great. Yeah, honestly, I I'm no bullshit. I couldn't have been more pleased about how it went Well, we were good when we were leading up to that event, you know when I was gonna do it It was funny because are we on now? Yes, the audience doesn't even know what you're talking about. Yes, they do I told them I'm on twice? Yes. The audience doesn't even know what you're talking about. Yes, they do. I told them. I'm on twice a week. Oh, okay.

They know me. Okay, okay. They know I've been trying to interview you. They know that I did the thing. Some guy... I was just there in DC again on Saturday night. Oh, really? I think I stayed in the same fucking room.

To do what? To do show, to do stand-up at the Warner Theater. Oh, really? Yeah, it was good. And one guy, one guy said he saw me and you and he enjoyed it. Uh-huh, okay. You know, out of the 1500. But here's what happened.

I'll run you through my experience of preparing for the DC thing. Okay. So you call me up, you like want me to do it, I'm like great. And I'm like, this will be great. We'll do a whole thing. We'll do the career talk. It'll be great. And then your assistant calls and says, we have a montage of Larry from, you know, from, you know,

like bar mitzvah up. And that's what we're going to try to build around that. I'm said, okay, fine. Well, maybe we can pace it out with some of the questions. And then I call you and I tell you what that montage is.

It seems like an interesting idea. You go I call you and I tell you that montage, it seems like an interesting idea. You go, what fucking, what montage? And I told you what it was. You're like, oh, we're not doing that. And then I'm like, all right. So then, and then we have the conversation where you're like, let's just be entertaining.

No politics, no pride. And I'm like, and then like I look at my cheat sheet and I'm like, all right, well, why, no, you know, politics, no pride. And I'm like, yeah, yeah. And then like, I look at my cheat sheet and I'm like, all right, well, why am I, what am I gonna do with this? So then I fester and then we, oh yeah, then there was, we're not gonna use it as a podcast. And I'm like, fine, no problem. Well, the funny part is, is that when you texted me, like the, what, two days before,

and said, I think what I'm gonna tell you is gonna make you happy. I literally thought you were canceled by the way that would have made me happier than you yeah what you're talking like someone made you do it no I know but yeah there's nothing that I don't regret after I agree to it really ever pretty much yeah when does it get started? It started with dating. Yeah. That's the template? That created the template?

Exactly, yeah. But what is it, like do you, like I watch the show, we've hung out, and there is a point where, how, do you, are you angry every day? No. Good. Why would you think that? Because the character's a little angry.

No, it's supposed to be, it's set up to be funny. I know, I know. But you don't have the anger? No. Unless something angers me, yeah. But I don't wake up angry. You don't? No. Never? Actually but I don't wake up angry. You don't know

Never actually I have a I have a much better disposition Obviously, yeah, then people think I have that's totally true. Yeah, I have a I act I have a very good disposition Yeah, you're a nice guy. You you listen you're concerned. You're I don't know about the listening but uh, you know, I Your empathetic guy. Yes. Yeah. And there's another story I want to tell you, like just because before I forget about it. I had an experience, and I don't know if you'll find it funny or not, but years ago when I was on Air America, we- I remember.

Yes. I used to listen to the show. That's right. We interviewed your ex-wife about something she was doing. And during that interview, I called her Cheryl. And it was just like the worst fucking radio moment I've ever had in my life. How did she react to it? That's never happened before.

And it didn't go well after that. Was not a good interview. Yeah, that'll kind of put a crimp in things. Yeah. He he he. So all right, so you're not angry, generally speaking. No. The other question I wanted to ask, like, as far as questions go,

because somebody pestered me after the DC thing. And they were like, you know, why didn't you talk to Larry about politics? He seems to be taking a position with the water thing. With what? With the water, the whole, the through line of water. Oh, from the show. Yeah, but that was just a ridiculous thing. A position.

Yeah. Yeah, that's a position. Yeah. How radical. Not giving a person water. Yeah. But when you saw, not giving a person water. Yeah. But when you saw, when you decided to make that the through line, I mean, you weren't thinking politically, you were thinking this was ridiculous.

Yeah, I was thinking it was ridiculous. And obviously there's a political element involved. Sure. Yeah. But it doesn't mean like, you know, he's going to be on the campaign trail. No. That's really dumb. Yeah, that's really dumb. Yeah, that's what people do. Do you like read comments or anything?

I'm not on. Anything. No, I'm not on social media. You're free. Yeah, I've never been on social media. Yeah, and you don't check on it. No, if I'm gonna read some, if I'm gonna read writing, I'd like it to be a professional writer.

Yeah. Like columns, things like that. Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, like, if you're gonna read writing, I'd like it to be a professional writer. Like columns, things like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you're gonna read commentary, or yeah, you're not gonna just go with the flow of sanity. Yeah, let's read a professional. The few that are left. Yeah.

Well, tell me about, I have to do a show where I'm playing a caddy. Tell me about, I wanna know about golf. Really? You're playing a caddy? I am about, I want to know about golf. Really? You're playing a caddy? I am. Can you help me? Sure, what do you want to know?

Do you have a regular caddy? For the most part, yes. My knee is bothering me now, so I've been taking a cart. Oh, all right. And the caddy doesn't need to be on the cart. So we don't, you know, if I'm taking a cart, I generally don't have a caddy. But when I walk,

when my knee's better, I take caddies, yeah. And what is their job, psychologically, emotionally? Their job is to help you, mostly with physical stuff. They're carrying your clubs. But do they say like, I think maybe what you want to do? Yeah. Yeah, they'll give you distances. They'll suggest a club.

Yeah. They'll talk about the wind. Yeah. They'll talk about the way the grass lies. They'll read your putts. Yeah. Yeah. They'll encourage you.

They'll tell you what you're doing wrong. Yeah. They're helpful. Right. Yeah. That's their job. Yes. They're a support system you're doing wrong. They're helpful. Right, that's their job. Yes. They're a support system. Exactly, exactly. Is there ever a moment where you get mad at the caddy?

Yeah. Yeah, you do. If they tell you that a putt is breaking one way and it breaks the other way. Can't be your fault. No, it's not your fault. You never wanna take responsibility or blame for anything that you do that's wrong.

So yeah, it's helpful to have someone to blame. Yeah. And they'll just take it? Cause they're, you know, they're the guy? They'll see you shaking your head. You know? Very, by the way, very few people ever admit to making a mistake.

Have you noticed that in your life? Ever? Yeah. Well, people are loathe to admit, oh, I screwed up. I'm really sorry about that. Yeah. Now it's like- And caddies are no exception to that. They rarely- Will take responsibility? They really will take responsibility.

Well, they're not magic. I mean, still, you're the guy hitting the bull. Still, it's been my experience that some do, but a lot of them won't say anything if they've made a mistake. Yeah. But sometimes it's your mistake, right? 99%, yeah. Well, I think that people now double down on the not taking responsibility.

That seems to be the position. That seems to be what people do, is to just hold the line. And I guess, I don't know if it eats them up inside. I don't think that's anything, though. I think that's human nature. You do? Yeah. But how about you?

You good at admitting mistakes? I'm an exception. Oh, you are? Yeah. You can do it? I can do it so easily, yeah. And quickly? And I do it all the time,

followed by a profuse apology. Right, but pretty quick? Very quick. Yeah, yeah. I used to do a joke about how closing the gap between doing the bad thing and the apology, and I've got it pretty tight, I've got it down to like, fuck you, I'm sorry.

Yeah. The worst thing is like a big social thing, like a party or something, there's faux pas left and right there. Things that people you're not talking to, you didn't say hello to, or things like that. And on the way home in the car, all of a sudden, you're being bombarded with these thoughts

of people you may have insulted or you didn't talk to, who you should apologize to, who you should call. And yeah, that's the roughest. But a lot of times it's not true. A lot of times it's not true. A lot of times you'll call up and go, hey, and I go, what are you talking about? Yeah.

Yeah, because they're thinking about themselves. Yeah, exactly. They're not thinking about you. Yeah, yeah. You think you're the center of attention of the universe. Yeah. I had this tremendous impact on that person. Exactly.

They're like, I don't remember it. Yeah. Yeah. The first hundred episodes of this show was me apologizing to people who were going, what are you talking about? Yeah. Yeah, that was the whole thing. I'm not as important as I think I am.

Oh, you mean you would call after the interview? Well, no, really. Oh, during the interview. Well, during the interview, this whole show, half of it was me trying to reintegrate myself with the comedic community, and I felt like I had offended a lot of people by being a dick or being selfish or crazy. And then I'd have them, and I felt like I had offended a lot of people by being a dick,

or being selfish or crazy, and then I'd have them over, and I'd say, you remember that thing six years ago, and they're like, I don't know what you're talking about. Let me ask you a question. So you're a comedian, and then you start, then you go to the other side, and you're doing interviews. Yeah, it was a tough transition.

What made you think you could even do it? Desperation. I mean, like, look, when I started this thing, there was no such thing as podcasts, really. There was a few around, and ultimately I'd done a little radio, and I thought it might be interesting. It wasn't set out to be an interview show,

and like not knowing what else to do, I would have my peers over, you know, comics and work through stuff. So I'd say that the first hundred episodes is me having people I know over to talk about myself. And that's how I created my unique form of interview, by having the other side of the conversation. Well, it sounds like a great draw for someone to want to sit here. Yeah. You talking about yourself.

I know. Well, it throws people sometimes. Yeah. But sometimes you got to do it because what am I going to do? Just sit there? By the way. What? You have total license to say anything you want about yourself for the next whatever it is. Well, no, I wouldn't. Yeah, don't hold back.

What is your aversion to talking about yourself? No, I'm not averse to it at all. It's the easiest subject. Right. Yeah. But there's certain things you don't like to talk about, right? Yeah, like anybody. Yeah.

All right. Because when we were going to do one, like there was a moment or two in the DC event, because I don't know, I don't know what your childhood was like. It was good. It was a very good childhood. Really? No complaints about my childhood. What did your dad do? He was in the clothing business.

Like he's a manufacturer? He worked for a manufacturer. Like schmottas? Yeah, no, suits and sport jackets. And he was like the salesman? Salesman, yeah. And your mom? She worked for the Bureau of Child Guidance.

Oh, what was that? She was a, she did secretarial work. Oh, not a social worker? No. No, and you got siblings? I have an older brother, yeah. Still around? Yeah.

That's great. You guys are doing all right. Yeah, okay. What's he do? He's a computer guy. Same with my brother. That means I don't know what he does. Yeah, he's a different side of the brain for me. Yeah, yeah.

My brother has had these jobs for years, and he tells me what they are, and I still don't know what he's doing. Yeah, my brother's brilliant, though. Math. Oh, yeah? Math genius? Math genius, yeah.

When you were growing up? Like, if there's ever any math stuff or odds that I'm thinking about, you know, and I'll call them up and I'll go, let me ask you a question. There's four guys, okay? I can't even think of the situation, but he'll know exactly what the odds are.

Oh really? Yeah, I say there's four guys or five guys. What are the odds of two guys, it's two against three. What are the odds of two guys being on's two against three, what are the odds of two guys being on the same team four weeks in a row? And he'll be able to come up with the answer. Is that a golf question? That's kind of a golf question.

Yeah, yeah. What is it about golf? How long have you been playing? I started when I was 14. Oh, so it's like an old thing. Yeah, but then there was like a 20-year lapse before I took it up again. Right, but you loved it? It was, I was so bad at it.

I just couldn't understand why. It was so challenging. And yet there's so many aspects to it that I love. But most golfers who play the way I do, when you come home, you're not really happy. No, you feel like you've wasted a lot of time. But you're usually playing really against yourself, right? Well, there's games, there's matches,

but still, if you stink, it's just no fun. And I stink very often. What, because you can't, just you don't hit it? Because it's hard, it's so hard! I've chosen a hobby that I have no aptitude for! It's insane. It's really crazy. I've wasted so much time and been so unhappy doing this and I, yet I continue to do it.

It's unbelievable. Most people, their hobbies, with stamp collecting, they play the guitar or even, um, whatever, tennis, something that gives them pleasure. They go out on boats, they ski, you know, they love it. You hear people talk about their hobbies and they love it. Not you. No, no.

So maybe the hobby is just you beating the shit out of yourself. Well, I don't need golf to do that, by the way. But it keeps it active, you know, it gives you a reason. Yes, it does. It's a focus. But, I mean, do you like being outside? Okay, so here are the positive aspects of it.

You're outside. Right. And it's a beautiful environment. Right. And you're with friends. Yeah. And you're gambling. Yeah, a little bit. How much?

A little gambling. Just on shots and stuff? How do you gamble on them? It's teams. It's team against that team. So you're gambling. It's not for a lot of money. Yeah.

And I don't know. I think that's pretty good. And if you play well, then it's the jackpot. Right. So a lot of it's social. A lot of talking, get some laughs. Yeah, it's a lot of social And if you play well, then it's the jackpot. Right, so a lot of it's social. A lot of talking, get some laughs. Yeah, it's a lot of social. Do you play with other comics?

No. No. No other comics. I would, but... Who's around? Yeah, they're not... They're not there. Romano plays.

By the way, I used to, when I lived in New York, we used to go out. Who? Bill Shefft. Oh yeah. We used to play, and John Manfrallati. Manfrallati, yeah. Used to play, we really had fun.

We played the public courses. I was telling the story today about Bill Sheft. I was telling somebody, we were talking about saying no and I said once I was playing with Bill and somebody else, we had three guys, I think it was John, and we had three guys, and at the 10th hole, some guy came up to us and said, can I join you?

And Bill said, no, I don't think so. It killed me. It killed me that somebody could be that frank and honest like that. That was unbelievable to me. It's a kill me that somebody can be that frank and honest like that. That was unbelievable to me Guy the guy was stunned. It's like he hit him over the head with that with a hammer to the honesty Yeah, yeah, Bill used to he used to have a cigar on stage sometimes all the time. Yeah. Yeah, is he still around? Yeah, yeah, I I liked him. I mean I interviewed him years ago. He's so funny He was one of the guys I saw when I was very young

and I never forgot it. So funny, he's got great jokes. Yeah, he's a great joker. He wrote for Letterman for years, I think. Was he doing it when you were doing it? Yes. Yeah, that was sort of like that generation. But man, for a lot, he's a little younger, right?

Yeah, maybe he's Bill's age, I'm not sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Bill's younger than I am. Yeah, so okay, so you got the genius brother. Yeah. And your dad is working in the thing. Yeah, clothing salesman. Your mom is a secretary.

Yeah. But are they funny people? Not terribly, no. No? No. But the child, how Jewish was it? There was a bar mitzvah. Yeah.

But nothing after that. I, yeah, yeah, me too. I never had to fast for Passover. My mother would say, no, no, no. If I started, if I started a fast, she'd give me a cookie like at 11 o'clock. Right, right, right. She didn't want you to be too hungry. Yeah, so.

But you went to temple for the thing? Maybe once or twice, but we weren't religious at all. Well, that's the weird thing I've been talking about on stage. Very secular. Yeah, but like there's no, in the Jewish, if you don't, like they don't teach you how to use God. I mean, if you're going to believe in God, someone's got to tell you why. And the Jews is, I mean, I just found as a, you know, kind of middle class, secular, conservative Jew, it was sort of like, it was so distant.

There was no practical tools from the religion other than you're a Jew, yeah, I know you're a Jew, and that's it. A lot of, you know, people sometimes come up to me and they'll go, hey, yeah. Right. Very conspiratorially. Yeah. Hey. I'm a joke.

Really? Good going. Congratulations. That's fantastic. Because they want me to take a picture or something. Yeah. And so that's how they're going to get on the good side. That's what is great about the show, like Curb especially, is that you really

kind of embrace this sort of culture. It's just a cultural identity. Yeah, exactly. And we live in it. I remember saying to a guy who was pretty religious once, I said, let me ask you this question. Did Jews believe in an afterlife? He said no. He said that. He said that. Yeah.

I said, well, what are you doing? What's the difference then? Yeah. And what did he say? He said, well, it's a way of life. Right said that? Yeah. I said, well, what are you doing? What's the difference then? Yeah. And what did he say? He said, well, it's a way of life. Right, right. Yeah. Because that's, you know, well, that, yeah, like people ask you, like, do Jews believe

in heaven? I'm like, that's not clear. It's never been clear to me. Yeah. How about hell? Again, I have no idea. Yeah. And then there's like secret scriptures, Kabbalah and all that shit.

I don't know what, I don't know from all that. Do you think about death? Oh. Yeah. Yeah, come on. I'm fucking 60. I'm not abnormal. I'm fucking 60 and sometimes I go to sleep at night and I think like, is this it? Yeah.

I'm like, yeah. Yeah. It's pretty exciting. It's a scary proposition. Sure. And then you wake up and you're like, I did it. Yeah. How do you keep yourself busy?

Well, thinking about death, yeah. Yeah. I'm not really, I'm not that obsessed with it, but. I'm not looking forward to it. No. The thing I think about is just, it's just the idea of like, if you die, then people are gonna be like, well, what are we gonna do with this shit?

You know, what are we gonna do with this stuff? I remember, I'm 76. And I remember when I was younger, I would look at a 76 year old and I go, oh my God, that poor guy, he's gonna die soon. I would feel sorry for anybody that age. And here I am. You made it.

I'm feeling sorry for myself. I made it, yeah. The younger me would be feeling sorry for the older me. But you're in good shape. Yeah, I'm in pretty good shape. You take care of yourself. Vitamins? Yes. Oh yeah, which ones?

What are you taking? Really? Yeah. Half of them I don't even know. Me neither. But you feel better, right? I don't know if they do anything. No, I don't think they do anything,

but you feel better taking them, right? Yeah, exactly. You feel healthy when you're taking them. You have no idea what they're doing, and it's probably a huge waste of money. Sure, sure. But I've left my house and driven back to take vitamins that I know.

Oh really? Sure. Yeah, like, fuck left my house and driven back to take vitamins that I know. Oh really? Sure. Yeah. Like a fuck. I forgot on the road one day that I didn't take all my 90 pills. Yeah. I'm like, I got a handful. Oh yeah. Totally. I'm like four swallows.

Yeah. Yeah. And we have no idea if they work. No idea. Yeah. But you eat good? Reasonably. Yeah. No cholesterol issues? I wouldn't say that, but yeah. No, I eat well and I think so.

I think I do. I mean, I'm not crazy. Do you eat the same thing like every day? No, no, I do in the morning. Yeah, like what is that? In the morning? Yeah. Well, I'll have like this green powder. Oh yeah, the green powder.

Sure, you hear that people? I have a green powder in the morning? Yeah. Well, I'll have like this green powder. Oh yeah, the green powder. Sure. You hear that people? I have a green powder in the morning. Make a note of that, file that away. A green powder. It's vague, there's a lot of green powders. Yeah, well there's a green powder. Yeah.

I think it's, I don't know, you want me to plug your product? No, not really. It's a green powder. Sure, which has gotta be good. It can't be bad. It's green. Yeah, it's green. And it's a powder. And you stir it in water and there you powder. Sure. Which has got to be good. It can't be bad. It's green. It's green. And it's a powder.

And you stir it in water, and there you go. Yeah. And that's it? No. Toast? No. Then there's a shake. Oh.

There's a couple of hours later, maybe an hour or two later, there's a shake. From another powder? I don't even know. I've compiled a list by talking to different people. I'll say to them, what's in your shake? Like when Woody Harrelson was on the show, I said, what's in your shake?

And he told me what's in the shake. I wrote some of those down. Some of them I was doing. So I'll ask different people what's in their shake. And I have a shake now. There must be 2,000 ingredients. It's crazy because I've taken a survey of all the shakes that people have and try to combine everything. I'm sure there's overlapping, but that's what I'll have.

Yeah, it's not the greatest tasting thing in the world, but it's okay. I'm pretty sure that's got to be good for me. That... Because it doesn't taste good. That composite shake. Yeah. Yeah, right. That's breakfast. There's nothing in there that that That's composite shake. Yeah. Yeah, right.

That's breakfast. There's nothing in there that's good, that tastes good. Yeah. Yeah, so that's breakfast. The mysterious shake. Yeah. So you're chipping away, you're growing up in what is it? In Brooklyn.

In Brooklyn. Yeah. Sheep's Head Bay. Sheep's Head Bay. Do you enjoy comedy? When I see it? Well, I mean, were you a guy that was like sought it out when you were a kid?

Do you, what are you watching? Jackie Gleason? Yeah, I watched Jackie Gleason. Yeah. And Jack Benny. Yeah, yeah, you watched Jack Benny. And Amos and Andy. Yeah.

That was in the house? Your dad liked it? I loved, I loved comedy, but I never associated myself with being funny or doing it. Yeah, yeah. Never. Did your dad like comedy? Your mom?

Did you sit and watch the old TV? I don't know if they liked it anymore than the average person. Oh really? Yeah. There was never moments where you're like, oh, is it? Cause some guys are like, that's making my dad laugh.

I gotta figure out. I remember we had the first Family album. Oh, yes. Yeah. Sure. We had that. That was about President Kennedy. Was that Vaughn Meader?

Vaughn Meader, yeah. Sure. Boy, he took a hit. Doing the impression of President Kennedy. Yeah, right, after the assassination. Yeah, I think Wendie first did a bit about that. What's Vaughn Meader? Yeah.

So it was just a very average household in terms of comedic taste. We didn't seek it out. But were you displaying any sort of, like I'm trying to picture you as a kid, like were you aggravated? Were you like, you know, uncomfortable, awkward? I was shy with girls.

Right. Like really shy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that really never went away. Yeah. Really? That's lasted until this day. Do you think that was there a point when you decided to do stage work where you were getting some kind

of positive attention? Well, I always knew that I wanted to say something to impress a woman. Yeah. When she asked me, what do you do? Yeah. I had to have a decent answer for that. Right.

Otherwise, forget it, I'm fucked. Yeah. No. So, first I started saying I was an actor. Yeah. I went to, I took an acting class after college. Right. And I quickly discovered that I didn't really like it.

Why? I didn't, I don't know. I didn't like waiting to say my line. I didn't like saying a line that wasn't even connected to me in any way. I didn't write the line. I didn't get why I was saying it. I got no satisfaction from it. And I don't think I was very good at it.

And I was waiting. When's it my turn? When's it my turn? You know, OK, I want to talk. I want to talk. So then I got into comedy from there. Because I wasn't funny at all in Brooklyn. What about college?

Well, when I went to college, somehow something emerged, a sense of humor emerged that I didn't even know I had to tell you the truth. Were you in, what did you study there? History. Yeah. Oh, you mentioned you were in a fraternity? Yeah. Jewish fraternity?

Yeah. Yeah. And so it was the same one that my brother was in, so I thought, you know, okay, I'll do that. Yeah. But that's when a sense of humor came out. That's when I started being funny. Yeah. And I could make people laugh.

I couldn't believe it. Yeah. And it was really, it felt good. Do you remember how? What was it, just by things? Just mostly self-deprecating jokes. Okay, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, just by putting myself down. Yeah. And the other guys would laugh. Yeah, yeah. I had one friend in particular from Ohio who really found me very amusing. Really? Yeah.

Did that in turn make them feel like they could put you down? Oh, I don't know, I don't know. I don't think so, no. Did that in turn make them feel like they could put you down? Oh, I don't know. I don't know. I don't think so, no. Yeah. So you knew you had a gift. So I don't know if I would refer to it as a gift back then,

but I knew that, oh, hey, I'm funny. Yeah. I'm really funny. Yeah. So what'd you do after college? So I had odd jobs. I took an acting class. I had some odd jobs.

What does this say you were in the service? Were you in the service? Yeah, I was in the military. Really? To avoid Vietnam. Yeah, I was in the reserves. Was that before college? No, that was after college.

Oh really? Yeah. Okay, so you just joined the reserves. Yeah. Were you scared the whole time that you would have to go? No. Oh. No, cause they weren't calling up reservists

and sending them to Vietnam. And now, oh, so that was the angle to get out of Vietnam. That indeed was the angle, yeah. Did you do training and everything? Oh, yeah. Oh, really? Yeah, I went to basic training and I went to occupational specialty school. What was that?

A petroleum storage. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It became useful. Yeah, very handy. And... Did you put that on your resume? So that was supposed to be for six years, but I got out after two years on a psychiatric

letter. Oh yeah? Oh yeah. I heard, I heard about the psychiatrist who was writing letters for people for like $300. Yeah. I borrowed the money. I went to him to get people out of the army or the reserves, whatever the case was. And so I borrowed the money and I went to his office and he wrote me this letter and then I went to one of my weekend meetings and I had to act crazy. Yeah. How'd you do it? Like the letter. Yeah.

What'd you do? I want to, where's the major? I want to talk to the major. Where'd you do? Uh, I wanna, I wanna, where's the major? I wanna talk to the major. Where's the major? I wanna talk to the major. Yeah. And so then I went to- With the mumbly crazy. Yeah.

Not that, not the crazy. No, and the, a little bit of crazy eyes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was good. Yeah.

You did good. So you could act. Yeah, I could. Yeah. But I was- Not necessary. But I was improvising. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Good. I didn't have dialogue. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah., I could. Yeah. Not necessary. But I was improvising. Yeah, okay. Good.

I didn't have dialogue. Yeah. And so, um, then I went to see the major, and after five minutes he said, can you drive home? I really did. Bravo. That was your award. So that was it.

You convinced him. I said, oh yeah, yeah, I'm a good driver. Yeah, I could do it. Yeah. I could drive. And that was it. You were out. Yeah, I was out. But that was good, because some guys, I mean, they yeah, yeah, I'm a good driver. Yeah, I could do it, yeah. I could drive. And that was it, you were out. Yeah, I was out. But that was good, because some guys, I mean, they went full bore. They put peanut butter in their ass crack and then ate it in front of the guy.

Really, if you had to do it all over again, if you're gay, they're not taking you. I would have just said, I'm gay. So what? I guess then they would have seen that as a psychiatric too. Yeah. A psychiatric release. Right. So it didn't take up your life being in the service?

No. For any amount of time? No, just the four months that I went to basic. Did you get anything positive out of that? No. Nothing. No sense of discipline or anything? Yeah, no, I didn't get anything out of that? No. Nothing. No sense of discipline or anything. Yeah, no, I didn't get anything out of it.

Zero. Yeah, zero. Where'd you do it? Did you have to go out and count? I mean, I learned how to fire a rifle. Oh yeah. That's it? Yeah, I'm not much use for that.

Did you ever do it now? Go out and fire the rifle? No. No. No, I haven't. No? Where did you go to training? They had this old air force base

called Floyd Bennett Field in Rockaway. Oh, okay. Not too far. No, not too far. From my parents' house. And I would go to my parents when I had one of those weekends and I would wear a wig.

Yeah. Because I had a big, they would call it a Jufro back then. Yeah. And yeah. And I'd go to the meetings and I'd stay with my parents. You'd wear a wig to go to the military thing?

Yeah. Because you didn't want to give up the Jew fro. Yeah, a lot of guys were wearing wigs. Do you remember the choice of wig? Was it a Beatles cut or was it a? No, it was very button down. Yeah. So you had to tuck your Jew fro into the wig.

Very professional, lawyerly, doctory looking wig. All one color. Yeah. Aggressively one color. Yeah. Yeah. But those wigs were no pleasure.

No. That's a, that's something, man. So then you get, you get, you start getting odd jobs. Then yeah, I don't know what I want to do. Yeah. I'm driving a cab. Then I am a private chauffeur. Oh yeah, we talked about that a little bit.

Yeah. There's a couple of other things I do. And then- Oh, the bra salesman. Yeah, bra salesman. Yeah. And you're just floundering? I'm floundering.

I'm really floundering. And this is like the early 70s? This is the early 70s. Yeah, and like things are, it's pretty exciting time to be alive. A lot of things are going on. Things are going on, but nothing's going on for me. Zero, zero.

But you're living in the city? I'm living in the city, yeah. Cause your dad had that place? My dad had this tenement building on West 43rd Street. That's like right by the old improv. Yeah, right around the corner. Yeah. But no thought of comedy yet. And this is when you take the acting class.

Yes, yes. So I took an actor. And that crapped out. I took the acting class. I didn't like it. But I was able to make people laugh when I would do stuff in my own words. Yeah, yeah. And... Did you take improv? I took an improv class.

Same time? Some of the comedians have taken this improv class. They told me about it. They said, you gotta check out this class. So you're already doing comedy by that time? Well, when I started doing standup, I went to the improv one, it's a crazy story. I went to The Improv, I was watching the show,

I'm looking at the comedians, I go, I can do that, you know? I can do that. Do you remember who you saw? I don't remember who I saw. But I remember, I went back into the bar, I said, who I talked about going on, could you imagine this?

This is a true story. This is insane. And they said, well, you got to talk to that guy. That guy is Bud Friedman, the legendary owner of the... Yes, Bud Friedman. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I said, can I... I walked up and I said, can I go... This is Saturday night. It's a full house.

I said, can I go on? He said, who are you? I said, well, I'm in the audience. He said, are you a comedian? I said, no. I'm in the audience. He said, are you a comedian? I said, no. I said, but I think I could, I thought they were making it up. Right, yeah, yeah. I said, no, I think I can do it.

He said, no, no, you have to audition, you just can't go on. Thank God you put me on, I never would have set foot on stage again. It would have been the most humiliating experience I've ever had in my life. But anyway, so then I auditioned and I passed the audition. For him?

No, I auditioned first at... I started going on. My first set was at Folk City in the Village. On a variety show? Or a comedy show? It was a, like a hoot, they called it a hootenanny. Oh, okay. And this is like early 70s? Early, at least 74. So it was folk music still or a little bit? Yeah, yeah, okay. Yeah. And this is like early 70s? Early, at least 74. So they're like, it was folk music still or a little bit? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And you know, people, singers were going up too. Yeah, yeah. And people who wanted to be comedians. Yeah. So that was the first time I did it and I stunk. It was terrible. But I got on once and you go on once, you could do it again. Then I went to Gil Hodges bowling alley in Brooklyn.

That was also terrible. And then for the third time, I went to Catch a Rising Star on the East Side. And I wrote this thing called the Unemployment Telethon. It was like a bigger bit. And the guy liked me. Who? Rick? No, the guy who was emceeing. Ah, who was that? His name was Bill Marou. Oh, don't know that guy.

Yeah. He changed his name, I think, like a year or two later. Yeah. I forgot. Anyway, so he passed me. So then I started going on at Catch a Rising Star and that... And that was it? Yeah, and then I was there. What was the scene then? Like, who was there?

Was it popular yet? Yeah. Yeah, it? Yeah. What was the scene then? Like who was there? Was it popular yet? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it was popular. That was that one you walk in, there's the bar and then through there, the showroom. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the bathrooms on the other side.

Yes. Yeah, and there was the Kochek on the right. Right. And Louis Ferranda and the bar. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Hi Larry, how are you Larry? Oh, perfect. Yeah.

So, I started hanging out there, and then from there, I went to the improv. But was Belzer there? Belzer was there. House emcee a lot of times? Yeah, most of the time. Nice guy, right? The greatest, yeah.

Was he supportive? The funniest, the greatest, so supportive. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have such great memories of him. Yeah, he's such a great guy. He would do 30, 45 minutes in between acts. Just ripping. Just talking to the audience.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, babe. Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, he was great. Yeah. Just the hippest, coolest, jazziest guy.

Yeah, and he always, he kept that. He always kept that. He got a little more relaxed as he got older, but I imagine when he was younger and like, energetic, he must've been that. He always kept that. He got a little more relaxed as he got older. But I imagine when he was younger and like energetic, it must have been crazy. So who else was on the shows with you? Bob Shaw, who was a great comic at the time. A great Shaw quote when I was starting out

at the Improv when Silver owned it in the 80s. He watched me one night and he was sitting at the bar and he goes, that was funny stuff. I'll let you know how it works. That's funny. Yeah, Bob Shaw. Jay Leno. Oh yeah. Elaine Boozler was just, yeah, she'd been doing it for a couple of years.

Kaufman, you see? She was great. Kaufman was there. Yeah. Ed Bluestone. Oh my God, yeah, I remember that guy. Was Kaufman a nice guy to you? We didn't have that much interaction. Yeah, yeah, I remember that guy. Was Kaufman a nice guy to you?

We didn't have that much interaction. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Was he kind of out there in his own ether? A little bit, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you're going up and you're doing OK? Yeah. Well, I know we tell that story, there's

that famous story of like, I don't think so. Yeah, right. But that happened a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was, I don't think I was very good. I wasn't quite sure.

You know, it's a funny thing. I was talking to somebody about this the other day. It's like when I'm doing, when I'm writing, like Kerr, for instance, and I think writing. Yeah. Like, like Kerr before, for instance. And I think of an idea. I never have to say to anyone, do you think, what do you think of this idea? You think this is funny?

Yeah. I just know that it is. I know it's going to work. I have no, I have a hundred percent confidence. I'm a hundred percent confident that this is going to work on the show if I write that up. Right. Now with stand up, it was always like, is this funny?

I have to ask somebody. I find myself asking other comedians, what do you think of this? Do you think this is funny? Like I never have to do that on shows, but for some reason I didn't know in stand up because I was depending I guess on reaction. So I don't know, do you find that too?

Do you ever ask anybody? Do you think this is funny? No. Or do you just go on your gut? I just go on my gut and if it tanks, I'll do it two or three more times. Right. And if it keeps tanking, either I say like, well, I don't care, I like it, this will be one of those moments.

Yeah. Or I'll keep trying to fix it. Yeah. Like I used to open with this thing and it would work 25% of the time. What was that the Spanish thing? Yeah. What was that line? Two-form.

Yeah. Like I would open, and it seemed like a very nice audience. In case I break into any Spanish or French, may I use the two-form with you people? Because I'm feeling very close to you. I feel very comfortable. You know, Cece uses the two-form with Brutus after Brutus stabbed him, which I think is taking the two-form a little too far after somebody tries to assassinate you.

It's better to be a little formal with them. You know, a two-brute, whatever. So that's sort of the bit. And sometimes we just sit there? Sit there, sit there. And Jerry came up to me one day, he goes, why do you keep doing the two-form? He goes, why do you keep doing the two form? He says, why do you keep opening with it?

I go, it's funny, because it's funny. It's funny. And he goes, yeah, but they're not laughing. I go, I don't know. I think it's funny. The thing about it is if they're not laughing at what you think is funny, then something's amiss, don't you think? Something's

wrong. But in your mind, it wasn't you or them, it was just you didn't want to rely on them anymore. It was like, what am I doing? What am I doing? Were you miserable? Yes. Yes, I was. Because, I mean, that's a microcosm of what happened to me. Yeah. Did you go do road gigs? Very rarely.

Because if what I think is funny and they're not laughing, then there's a problem. Then I'm in the wrong game. Right. And you don't, and it fucks with your confidence. Yes, totally. Yeah. Totally. So when did you like eject?

When Jerry, when, sorry, let's do this thing? Yeah. It was a relief. But I will say that there was another club that I would go on the weekends called Comedy U where there was mostly New Yorkers there. You know, during the week at these clubs, there was a lot of out of towners. It was like a top 40 kind of comedy show. And you could do hipster stuff downtown.

Yeah. And so I did better downtown. Yeah. Than I did at like the improv and catch. But again, it was a bit of a mismatch. And they could see that I didn't really have the confidence on stage that I needed. And I't really have the confidence on stage that I needed, and I didn't have the confidence on stage because I didn't have the material to give me the confidence.

Right. The right material that I knew would make them laugh. Yeah. I couldn't go up knowing I've done this before, it always works. Yeah. So I'm going up insecure and they smell it a mile away. Right. And did you ever have bits that worked?

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I wasn't all away. Right. And did you ever have bits that worked? Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I wasn't, I wasn't all loser. Yeah. Yeah, and they were always longer bits, right? Yeah.

You're not like a joke guy. No, I don't really write jokes very well. Yeah, me neither. Sometimes they happen. Yeah, sometimes they happen, yeah. And you're like, oh. Yeah, exactly, yeah. I know, yeah. It was're like, oh. Yeah, exactly, yeah. I know, yeah.

It was situational. Yeah. Yeah. What was the first writing gig? The first writing gig, what was it? Oh, well, Fridays was the first writing gig. Did you write for Joy Behar? Oh, yeah.

I did a little thing for Joy, yeah. That's funny, right? I did a character for Joy that very similar to what I wound up doing on Curb. Really? Yeah, I did this character, he was a network executive, the guy's name was Larry Beck. Yeah.

And he would give Joy advice before shows and I don't even know what it was, I don't know how it happened, but I remember having a good time doing it. I also had taken an improv. I took one improv class. Yeah. The comedians were taking the, I think,

Bob Shaw said to me, you should come down and take this class with a guy named J.J. Barry. Yeah. Who was this improv teacher. And I said, OK. And so I went down, I took this class, and I did an improv, and I remember thinking, I took this class, and I did an improv, and I remember thinking, oh, this is,

I'm, people were laughing, and I was good, and JJ Barry's girlfriend came up to me, and from the class, and said, you're really good. I went, wow, in my head. It's like, you know, I remember every compliment I've had in my life. And years later, and that stuck with me, this improv thing, that I had an affinity for it.

And so years later when Curb came along, I knew I wanted to improvise the show. Yeah. But with Joy, what was she doing, a talk show? She was doing a talk show, yeah. Like it was with Local or was it National? I think it was National. Oh yeah. Like it was local or was it national? I think it was national. Oh yeah, was it called Off Broadway?

It was on, what was that network? The Life Time, yeah, it was on Lifetime, yeah. Yeah, because I talked to Suzy recently and then she brought that up and I remember that I didn't really talk to you about it, but that guy was like the Curb Guy? That guy, yeah, I think he's like the curb guy. So you felt it. Yeah.

Isn't that wild that you had that in there the whole time? Yeah, yeah. Because what was that, like the late 70s? 87. 87. Yeah. And then you wrote for SNL and you've told that story. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, where you go. You quit. I quit and came back, yeah. And you used that for Seinfeld. Yeah. And then, but Fridays, that was a big deal. That was like the first big thing. I remember you on Fridays.

Yeah. That whole crew. Yeah. It was always interesting, because we were always sort of like, this isn't Saturday Night Live. Are they trying to be Saturday Night Live? Well, first of all, they called the show Fridays.

I know, right? I mean, that's insane. How long did it last? Two years. And you were like a regular cast member? Yeah. Yeah. Was that fun at all?

Eh, not so much. Because it was all sketch. Yeah, it was all sketch. It wasn't improv. No. I'm trying to remember, Michael Richards was on there. Yeah. And I don't remember who the other people were.

Michael's such a terrific actor. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh my God, the intensity of it. Yeah. Like, I just, I Oh my God, the intensity of it. Yeah. Like I just, I had that realization when I re-watched the, the title is the golf ball thing. Yeah. Where that, like, you know, with that character, you know, inventing that character, you could do

anything and no one would ever question it. Yeah. Like when he says, I'm going to go to the ocean and hit golf balls, no one's going to go like, what the fuck? Yeah. It's kind of an amazing thing. Obviously I'm not the first to notice that.

Yeah, Gwell, great character to write for, obviously. So with Jerry, you just, so you've written a little bit and Jerry wanted you to do a? Jerry had read a screenplay that I wrote. I don't know how it came to his attention, but he read it. What was that one? It was called Prognosis Negative, which became like a title that was used when the cast on

Seinfeld were going to the movies one night. Okay. So they were seeing Prognosis Negative. Inside joke for you guys. Yeah. So he read it and liked it. He liked my comedy. Yeah. And so he approached me one night at the Catalyzing Star. Right.

About working on a show with him because NBC was interested in doing something with him. Yeah. What was the guy's name over there, Castle Rock Glenn? Was there a guy named Glenn? Glenn Padnick. Yeah, Glenn Padnick. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Glenn Padnick.

And it was Rob Reiner's company? Yeah, Rob Reiner. I think there were five partners, Rob Reiner, Martin Schaeffer, and Andrew Scheinman. Yeah. Am I leaving anybody out? Those are the guys you pitched to? And Alan Horn, yeah. Cause I met with Glenn Padnick once.

Oh, for a TV show? Yeah, and he told me the entire story of Seinfeld and said, thank you. What a satisfying meeting that was. The worst. I've had weird meetings. One guy, like he had just gotten a Casio like a dress book when they were popular. It was for an agent. You know, I went into me with this agent and he had just gotten this thing.

He's like, you have one of these? I'm like, nope. And then he told me how it worked in detail for a half hour. And he said, great meeting. And that was it. It wasn't my agent. I'm sorry. See, this is where I interject me into it. I don't mind at all. Keep interjecting. But Padnick seemed all right, right? Yeah, very nice. They were very supportive. Yeah. So you go in there with this idea. Yeah. And that was it. And you do the whole first season and... The first season was four shows.

We did a pilot and then we did four shows. It was picked up for four shows. And then it was picked up for 13. Yeah. But it was always a struggle at the beginning to get it picked up? Um, I guess so. Yeah. Yeah.

Um, Brandon Tartikoff didn't want to pick it up. Yeah. And this guy, Rick Ludwin. Oh, that guy from NBC. Yeah. I met with that guy too. Yeah. Once.

That didn't go well either. He kind of championed the show. He got it through. Yeah. Well, that was good. Yeah. I met with him. He was kind of a conservative guy though, right? He looked conservative.

Yeah. I had a meeting with him and Bridget Potter. Do you remember Bridget Potter? I do. Yeah, I was pitching like some sort of comedy show. And he you remember Bridget Potter? I do. Yeah, I was pitching some sort of comedy show and he was like, well, what is this show gonna be about? I'm like, you know, topics, sound like it was up NBC's Alley. It wasn't up any of the...

Topics. Yeah, that doesn't seem like a show that's gonna go. Yeah, I just had no sense of show business. But you did, did you feel like you did? When you got into writing with Jerry, did you have any, like, cause it's, like it's, running a show is a big fucking pain in the ass. And you didn't have any experience?

No, nothing. Not even being on set? Yeah. Do I, I don't even know how you manage that. I didn't know how to do it really. So was there, was that, was that an issue? For whom? For anybody?

For you? For, I mean, like you, were you like, you didn't have anyone to learn from? I didn't tell anybody that I didn't know what I was doing. Right. But what were the responsibilities initially when you go to, like, okay, we're

going to shoot a pilot. Well, first you have to write it. Yeah. Well, that's, okay, let's say that's done and you could do that, but then, like, how do you put the fucking thing together? Well, there's a director. Director and a casting agent, and you see when you do it and you've decided who's going to's a director, director and the casting agent.

And you see him do it and you decided who's going to be in it. And then you just kind of flew by the seat, there's a lot of things to worry about. And that was a big show, a lot of sets. And he's just. Well, after, after a couple, like, yeah. But like, what were the major obstacles

for you when you were doing it? Like just, it was, did it become, you know, at the beginning, was it, was it more difficult to execute the ideas you had because of limitations and then by the end, you could do whatever you wanted? I was sort of doing whatever I wanted. Either way.

Either way. Yeah. And fighting to keep it in. Yeah. Who'd you have to fight? NBC, Castle Rock. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So then you did come up a little against that same kind of thing where you're like, I know this is funny. Yeah. Castle Rock. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So then you did come up a little against that same kind of thing where you're like, I know

this is funny. Yeah. And they'd be like, I don't know. Yeah. Was there ever one where they won? No. Not a big win. Yeah.

I gave them little wins. You earned that. You earned that. Yeah. Yeah. Give them little wins. You earned that. You earned that. Yeah. Yeah. Give him little wins. Yeah. Oh, yeah. We'll mention the name in this scene. Yeah. So we remember. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good idea. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then you're like, good.

That'll shut him up and we'll do the whole thing like that. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And by the way, they sort of knew that they couldn't tell me anything because I would leave. Yeah, you've established that. I had threatened to quit a couple of times. And so they knew that. And I kind of had that over them.

And they believed you. And they believed me. Yeah. As well, they should have because I would have. Yeah? Yeah. And like, how did those kind of things pan out? You're like, fuck this, I'll go? You know, I only would have felt bad about leaving,

of letting Jerry down. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you got frustrated. Because I didn't really care if I left that much. Yeah. I could have gone back to New York and continued I left that much. Yeah. I could have gone back to New York and continued doing stand-up. Yeah, which was... Yeah.

Which we've talked about. But I don't know, it didn't... I can't explain it. I just don't... I just didn't want people telling me what to do. I don't react well to that. Yeah. I can't do it.

I can't do it. If you tell me what to do, I don't react well to that. Yeah. I can't do it. Yeah. I can't do it. If you tell me what to do, I can't do it and I won't do it. I'm a little baby and I don't wanna do it. I just can't do it. It's wrong, it stinks, it's awful. It's embarrassing.

Yeah. I don't want my name on it. Right. Yeah. Who wants to be involved in something like that? Yeah, yeah, no, believe me, some of an anti-authoritarian streak is what drives most of us. Yeah, and so when writers say, what advice can you give me, writers who are starting out,

I say stay single, don't have any responsibilities. Yeah, yeah. Because if you have responsibilities, you can't just say no, you have a family, you have to do it. Yeah, yeah. You have to take their shitty notes. That's right, yeah. Because if you have responsibilities, you can't just say no. You have a family, you have to do it. Yeah, yeah. You have to take their shitty notes. That's right. Yeah.

Yeah, I don't have a family. And look where I am. I'm talking to you in my house. Yeah. Yeah, I did it. It's good. Yeah, it worked out. Yeah.

Yeah, that's the one benefit. And I took this job doing an acting thing. Which job? The caddy? Yeah. It's with Owen Wilson. it's an Apple show, but I don't live that life. I gotta go to Vancouver for three months

and figure out how to eat there. Oh, do you like acting? I don't find it tremendously satisfying, but I think that's my fault. No, it's not your fault because you like saying what you come up with. Yeah, and I also just like, you know, I don't like waiting around.

Yeah, there's that. Dude. Yeah, I know. It's crazy. And it's sort of like you're just sitting there going like, I could be doing other things. Yeah. Even if it's nothing, it's nothing on my terms. I'm not, you know, it's not nothing where I'm sitting on a vinyl bed in a trailer. Yeah.

Wondering what's taking so long. A vinyl bed. Isn't like the worst. Yeah. It's like the nicest trailer is shitty. Yeah. What are you going to do? I, yeah, it's like, I, I should be, I should be grateful.

But also I,, part of my- I played golf with him last week. Yeah, cause he's trying to do it. Yeah. Yeah, how's he doing? His swing looks good. Oh good. Cause he's gotta pull that off.

I know. He's the guy. I'm just the old guy that used to follow him around with a bag. Uh huh. Yeah. He's a good guy. Yeah, don't forget, you wanna support him.

That's your job as a- That's my whole job. Yeah, it's like the job description is codependency. Yeah, don't forget you want to support him. That's your job as a whole job. Yeah, it's like The the job description is codependency. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, you just we did a funny Seinfeld episode about that the Kramer's caddy. Yeah who gave him like life advice like they'd be in They'd be eating lunch. You'd say well, I would go for the bacon here I'm familiar with they they cook at it, they're right, you know. Which was a really funny idea.

Yeah, it was, yeah. That's funny. Yeah, I mean, I'm not terribly worried about the part any more than I would be doing anything. I know I've got to, I imagine some part of me will kick into gear. But you've done, what about the other acting you did? What about it?

How'd you like that? What acting? Did you do some stage work? I did. But I wrote that. You didn't like it? I don't like doing the same thing every night. Yeah. Did you like it?

It was boring. Right? Yeah. Same lines every night. And did you, like, what about the audiences? Did you have the same feeling with the, as you did with Stan? No, because I'm talking to people. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh yeah, I don't, yeah, that was another thing that I was like, maybe I should do theater. And they're like, all right, well, there's an opportunity, you gotta workshop it for four weeks. Yeah. And then there'll be a two month run. I was like, no, I'm out. Yeah, I was in it for like four months.

Oh my God. 144 performances. Oh my God. Yeah, I was I was in it for like four months. 144. Oh my god. Yeah. By the end, were you like, Oh, thank God. Thank God. Yeah. Yeah. But you tried it. Yeah, I tried it. Yeah. And the curb was just talk about that briefly. Because you know, I know you talked about it a lot. Like, I, and I think we brought it up, but was the HBO special wasn't supposed to be a pilot? No. It was just your concept of a special? It was just a special, yeah.

And how did Garland get involved? Garland had an office, I always had an office at Castle Rock after Seinfeld. Yeah. And Garland was there working on something with my good buddy Alan Zweibel. Zweibel, good guy, yeah. So Garland said to me one day, what are you going to do now? And I said, well, I'm thinking of going back to stand-up.

I haven't done it in 10 years. Yeah. And he said, well, you should film it. Going back. Yeah. Yeah. And so I kind of resisted the idea at first and he said he wanted to direct it. And I don't know, then I thought, well, I just can't, how's this going to work? It's going to be a documentary of me going back to stand up. Right.

That was the idea. Right. But when I thought about a documentary, it going back to stand-up. That was the idea. But when I thought about a documentary, it seemed kind of boring to me. What is that gonna be? They're gonna follow me into a dry cleaner when I'm shopping, when I'm cooking? I don't get it. How is this any good?

I could see the stuff on stage, seeing the progress of the act over the course of the hour, see how the act develops. That seemed interesting to me. Yeah. How the material changes and all that and what's taken out, what's added, and by the end, you have a special. Yeah.

But I couldn't see the offstage stuff working at all. So I decided to make up offstage stuff. Offstage stuff. Yeah. Just kind of the way Curb is now. Yeah, right. I gave myself a wife and I had kids in the special who were mentioned but never seen.

And Jeff, I played my manager. Yeah. And that was it. And that was it. I'm trying to remember what the act was. That was the Jonah Salk joke, right? Oh, the Jonah Salk, yeah. Yeah, and then the Monica Lewinsky joke.

Yeah, yeah. You had that joke. Monica Lewinsky joke. Yeah, yeah. You had that joke. Yeah. And were you actually doing those at clubs? I was doing it for the special, yeah. Right, but were you doing more club work than was recorded? Were you really trying to put together an hour?

Or was it mostly club? I know it wasn't an hour because I knew we had the other stuff in between. Sure, sure. So there's no way it was going to last an hour. But I was definitely writing material and trying it out. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I had that Hitler bit, seeing the magicians trying to learn their...

the secret backstage, seeing the magician... Hitler really enjoying the show. And going backstage and asking the magician, how it, where's the rabbit, you know. So there was that one and, I don't know, there were a couple of funny bits in there. The Jonas Salk bit, what was that? It was the mother that was.

That was, yeah, Jonas Salk. Oh, I know what it was. It was a living, how would you like to live next door to Jonas Salk's mother after polio? Yeah. You know, my Jonas, Estelle, did I tell you about my Jonas? You know, your son that he discovered the cure for polio? I don't know if I mentioned that or not, my Jonas! So that was funny. That was funny.

And did you think you could get a blowjob from a Jewish woman and there wouldn't be a reprisal? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, that one. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So there was a couple of funny bits in there. Totally. But that's all it was supposed to be. Right.

And then who decided? Chris Albrecht. Oh, he was still at HBO. Yeah. And he said, why don't we do a show? And Chris knew me from the clubs. From the improv? Chris was the manager of the improv.

The manager of the improv, yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's how that came together, and he liked that special, and he saw a show in there. We all kind of saw it as we were filming it that we thought, oh, this could definitely be a show. Yeah, and over the course of all these seasons of Curb, I mean, like I never know how casting, yeah, I know how casting works,

but I always assume that you would have some kind of relationship with Einstein. Like, you knew him or you didn't? I knew him. I knew Bob. Yeah. We were friends. Yeah. So you knew how funny he was and what he...

Oh, my God. Yeah. Yeah. And he brought in, were there others that, you know, you brought in because you were big fans of? Well, I mean, Richard, my closest friend. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, um, Suzy, I knew from the clubs, but I knew from the clubs,

but I knew that I needed to guess what Jeff's wife was gonna be, this foul mouth woman. And then I saw her do this Jerry Stiller roast, and boom, yeah, okay. She's gonna play Jeff's wife. And Cheryl auditioned. And she was perfect. She was perfect at that audition.

Yeah. But like working with somebody and I don't, how are you going to talk about it? But like, you know, I went and interviewed Shelley Berman years ago at his house. For this? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. You know, cause I was fascinated with his bitterness

and I wanted to hear him talk about it without, you know, going there. He had that incident. That's right. I mean, I saw that on television the night that it, that it was on, that it appeared, yeah. Yeah. That was where they went backstage

and he was losing his shit. Right. Over a phone or something. Yeah, I saw that. Everybody saw it. Yeah. And. Over a phone or something. Yeah, I saw that. Everybody saw it. Yeah. And he really thinks it destroyed him. Yeah, it very well may have.

That and Bob Newhart. Those were the two. Oh, because he accuses Bob of taking the phone. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, to hold your, yeah, the phone bit. But there was also a female comedian who, Doing the phone? Who was doing a phone, I forgot her name.

I don't know. Yeah. I feel like really funny. I feel like Elaine May and Mike Nichols might've done it. Right. Oh, that's right. He was in the Compass players. Yes, yes.

And he wanted to do the bit with Elaine, but she was with Mike. But when you cast somebody like him, I'm just fascinated with those old guys, the generation two before you, do you, you come into it knowing all that and think like, well, he, you know, let's, you know, let's throw him a bone. Well, it wasn't a bone. I don't think I would, I would do that. Yeah. But. But he came in and killed. He was great. The only thing was he was wearing a toupee. And so when the audition ended,

I walked out in the hall, I said, Shelly, I said I want to give you the part, but you can't wear this, the piece. Fine, fine, I don't need the piece, fine, yeah. That was it? That was it, yeah. No pushback? No.

I don't think he'd ever taken that piece off. Yeah, no, no pushback at all. Yeah, that's great. Who were the other people over the years that you were thrilled to give the job to? I mean, Tracy Ullman. Oh my God. Surprised me.

Jesus Christ. That fucking character. I mean Tracy Ullman. Oh my god surprised me Jesus Christ That fucking character. What was that? Huh? I don't even know. Yeah, okay What it was? Yeah, yeah, if you're a Jewish person what a tour de force that was you're like, could you find everything? possible, yeah, would be I Mean I couldn't believe it. It was like a comedic masterpiece. Yeah, she was amazing.

Yeah. Until, like... Just do everything you can to annoy this person. Oh my God, but naturally. Naturally. So it didn't seem like you were doing that. Exactly, exactly. Yeah. I mean, with the food in the... Yeah, chewing, the itching.

Yeah, chewing, kissing, yeah. Oh God. The snoring, yeah. Oh, God. The snoring, yeah. Whoa, the sweet apnea machine? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh. That was pretty great. Yeah, she was great.

And again, like as I said when I saw you last time, I'm sorry about Richard, that was terrible. And I was happy to have talked to him a few weeks before on his podcast, you know, and I have that. Oh, that's great. Yeah. It was great. Yeah, yeah, you went on there. Yeah. I went on there, you know,

and I was like, I told him, I remember I told him, I said, look, you know, if you wanna, you know, get back up on stage and just sit and talk, I'll be, I'll do that with you. Yeah. I mean, just to get, you know, just to get him engaged. Right, right, right. Cause I know how much he loved it. Yeah. And it would have been great, I mean, just to get him to stay engaged. Because I know how much he loved it. And it would have been great, you know?

But I just feel like he was too, you know, it was too much. It was too much. But, um... Yeah, he didn't really have the energy to... Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm sorry about that. And, uh, but it's amazing that you guys knew each other for so long. I know.

It's really something. I know. You told me that story when the last time I talked to you about knew each other for so long. I know. It's really something. I know. You told me that story when the last time I talked to you about Carl Reiner calling. Yeah. And that was amazing. Yeah, that was really cool. It was at your house, right?

It was in my little slum apartment on West 43rd Street. And Richard was over. And he would come over a lot. I'd buy fish on Ninth Avenue, and I'd cook fish. Anyway, this one time, he was expecting a call from Carl Reiner, and I said, Carl Reiner's calling you? And he said, yeah. And I said, oh my God, Carl Reiner?

Because the 2000 year old man, Carl Reiner Mel Brooks. Did you guys listen to that? Oh yeah, we died laughing from that album. The greatest. And so, oh my God, Carl Reiner is gonna call you. Holy cow, I gotta listen, I gotta listen in. So I made the call and there was a phone in the other room,

which is five feet away. And I picked up the phone and just hearing a phone in the other room, which is five feet away. And I picked up the phone and just hearing that Carl Reiner's voice, I thought, wow, wow, that's Carl Reiner. On the phone. Yeah, on the phone in my house, holy cow. That must have been amazing.

Did you like watching Richard do comedy? Oh yeah, he was the best. He was, wasn't he? Yeah, he was the best. He was, wasn't he? Yeah, he was so great. I just, he was like a real inspiration to me when I'd see him on Letterman, you know, just sitting there with the, it was an, that's why I wanted to do panel,

cause he was just, he had the balls to riff. Yeah. Not a lot of guys do. But he'd come on with those, all those legal pads. The notebooks, yeah. The notebooks, yeah. I can't remember if he ever really looked at them. Oh, he looked. Oh, he did, yeah, yeah,. The notebooks, yeah. The notebooks. I can't remember if he ever really looked at them. Oh, he looked.

Oh, he did. And then he'd just go. Yeah. Yeah. And Mel Brooks, was that a fucking amazing thing for you? Totally. No, I wrote those shows before I even asked him to do it. So you didn't know.

I didn't know if he was going to do it. So we went out to lunch, so I pitched him the show. Yeah, the Curb, the arc. Yeah, the Curb arc, and he said yes. Yeah. So that was great. It's amazing how lucid he is, isn't it? Mel?

Yeah. Well, that was like 2004, I think. Yeah, I interviewed him, I can't remember when. That was 20 years ago. Yeah, yeah, and he's still around. So he was my age, I think. Oh, wow. Yeah. I interviewed him. I can't remember. That was 20 years ago. Yeah. Yeah. And he's still around. He was my age. Yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah. Is that one of the reasons he stopped? Because you feel like you were getting older? Stop Curb. Oh, Stop Curb? Yeah. It just seemed like it was the, it was enough. Yeah. Yeah. Twelve seasons in 24 years. It's crazy.

Yeah, it's crazy. So you were like 52 or something when you. Yeah. Yeah. That's amazing. Right. And it's all documented. The entire arc of your aging is there.

Yes. Well, you did great. It was great. It was an honor to talk to you. I'm serious. Oh, really? Yeah. That's nice. Thank you. No, because like, look. This was fun. Was it? Do you feel like we covered it enough? Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. Yeah, were you expecting anything different? Nope. It was exactly what I was expecting. We did it. We got through it. Yeah. Yeah. It's so funny because when we did the live one, you were so correct in terms of how it should be.

Oh, really? Yes. Oh, good. And I learned something that night. You did? I did. I did. Because I don't do a lot of that. I don't do, I wouldn't do it for, there was a time when they were gonna make me available for that kind of thing.

I had one bad experience, you know, doing it, and it was like a corporate thing, and it was just awful. But like, over us talking about it, the thing that stuck with me was you were like, I want them to be entertained. They came to have laughs and to be entertained. Like, you knew what they wanted. And all they wanted was to laugh and hear the stories

and for you to be the comedic part of you. Because it's not my nature in terms of how we do this. But I've done a couple of live ones before. I did one with Terry Gross. But like Terry Gross' audience is not looking for laughs. We got a few, but that was on me. Right. But what I learned is that even if I'm, there were moments where I would have interjected,

but I realized that like this was about you being entertaining, and I was just there to sort of know when you were done being entertaining, and if I had something to add, just add a little bit. It's not about you. I felt like you added a lot. Yes. Yeah. But I just was very sort of aware of the dynamic so we could make it funny.

Yeah. And it fucking worked out. Totally. And it was a good lesson for me and it was a great experience and this was a great experience and I'm not blowing smoke up your ass. I didn't know, you know, I never know

how things are gonna go, but I'm a big fan and I'm glad we did it. Yeah, me too. Thanks buddy. Thanks buddy. There you go. That was fun. 12 seasons of Curb Your Enthusiasm are streaming on Macs.

Hang out for a minute folks. 99 cents until July 14th. It's a treat for you and your wallet. From fleet management to flexible truck rentals to technology solutions. At Enterprise Mobility, we help businesses find the right mobility solutions so they can find new opportunities. Because if your business is on the road, we wanna make sure it's on the road to success. Enterprise Mobility, moving you moves the world.

Hey people, don't forget, if you're a full Marin listener, we've got a very rare WTF episode posted this week. It was a live show we did back in 2010 at Comics in New York City with lots of guests, including Jeanine Garofalo, Todd Berry, and John Mulaney. This would be a very young John Mulaney. How old are you, man? 27.

Ugh. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. You know where I was when I was 27? Where you were? Yeah. Where? Nowhere. That's not true.

When you were 27, what were you doing? Uh, drinking a lot. But you were already in LA, right? No, I'd come back from LA because I was beaten. And then I moved back to Boston. I said already in LA, like that means you've arrived. You were already living in LA. Well, no.

I went to LA, and LA just took me, it sucked me into its mouth, chewed me a little bit, but was unable to swallow me. And then spit me back out to Boston, where I landed, and said, I'm OK, I'm going to try again. And then I moved to New York. So when I was 27, I was probably on the Lower East Side, living on a block that pervade heroin primarily, and walking around the streets with Todd Berry going,

why the fuck can't we get on a Catch Rising Star? That guy's a fucking asshole. Why can't we get on a catch? That's where I was's a fucking asshole. Why can't we get on a Catcher Rising Star? That's where I was at. You on the other hand are writing at SNL. I am not on Catcher Rising Star. I have yet to do an HBO Young Comedians special. To sign up for the full Marin, go to the link in the episode description or go to WTFPod.com

and click on WTF+. Before we go, I want to mention that this show is sponsored by better help online therapy. Do you ever wish you could slow time down and take a breather? That's what therapy is for. When life is flying by, therapy gives you a moment every week to hit pause, set intentions, and reset so you can do more of the things that make you happy and less of the things that don't better help offers affordable online therapy on a flexible schedule. Take a moment with BetterHelp. Learn more at BetterHelp.com. That's BetterHELP.com. And a

reminder, this podcast is hosted by Acast. Here's some guitar from the hundreds of guitar riffs I have accumulated over my career as a guy who plays guitar riffs at the end of his podcast thing. So So I'm gonna be a good boy. Boomer lives! Monkey! La Fonda! Cat angels everywhere!