WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1552 - Paul Scheer

Episode Date: July 1, 2024

When Paul Scheer was on WTF back in 2010, he spoke about things in his past that he never before spoke about publicly. That conversation with Marc started Paul on a journey of self-discovery that continued as he built a family, grew his career and dealt with the relationships in his life that had deeply unresolved issues. All of this culminated in the writing of his new book, Joyful Recollections of Trauma. Paul and Marc also talk about some of the other traumatic events in the book, most of which involve Paul’s embarrassing encounters with older celebrities. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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I'm mark Maron. This is my podcast. Welcome to it. It's nice to have you with us. When did I talk to you last? On Thursday? God damn. This schedule I'm on is like, I'm loopy. I'm exhausted. But a lot has happened.

There was a presidential debate or a shit show of some kind. I'm sure something's on fire. It's very hot somewhere. There are people unhappy and yelling and dying and without homes. The water is rising. Yeah, all that's going on right now as we speak. People are being massacred. It's all happening. I didn't watch the debate. I didn't need to. I knew what would happen. I saw bits and pieces and I don't care who you are What thing what you think or what team you're on? We're all in trouble. We're all in trouble But what do I what am I gonna do? What am I gonna say to change anything? I don't know might make some of you feel better might make some of you pissed off. But ultimately, what does it do?

Am I just part of the the era of yammering? Am I part of yammering culture? Am I just going to argue and bitch and get angry and pretend like I know things? Not today. Not today. Kind of loopy today. I shot a night shoot on Friday. I didn't get to bed till four in the morning. I got up at 730 to get a plane on Saturday. Did some interviews, an interview Saturday. I'm just today, it's Sunday I'm recording this and I'm still not quite right. Not quite right. Today on the show I talked to Paul Scheer. He's a comedian, a writer, an actor, co-host of podcasts, How Did This Get Made and Unspooled, just wrote a book, Joyful Recollections of Trauma, and in the book,

he mentions that the first time he ever publicly talked about the stuff he wrote about in the book was when he was on WTF back in 2010. And we're gonna play a segment of that for you before this conversation, I think it's important. I'll be in Tucson, Arizona at the Rialto Theater on Friday, September 30th. Then I'm in Phoenix at the Orpheum Theater

on Saturday, September 21st. You can go to WTFpod.com for tickets. Martin Mow passed away on Thursday at 80 years old. His daughter said he died after a long illness. He was on episode 971 from November 2018 where he talked about his comedy, his music, his art and more. A lot of stuff that's available for free in all podcast feeds, episode 971. And look, what have I been doing? I've just been kind of, I've been working and watching documentaries. I watched all six episodes of that Hitler documentary and a lot of good information.

The narrative was good, but it is a great example of why reenactments are fucking terrible. Now look, I don't mean to begrudge the guy that played Hitler in the reenactments are fucking terrible. Now look, I don't mean to begrudge the guy that played Hitler in the reenactments. He put a lot into it. You know, he got his hair going. He got, he was moving his arms around a lot and yelling. He did all right, but it was 80% reenactments. And they should have just made a mediocre movie

about Hitler, but the information was good and I I actually didn't know The arc of some of that stuff and it's very disturbing. Obviously there's ways to uh see where we're at now in this country is something foreboding in relation to the possibilities that uh, Hitler had opened the door to but I had a very odd moment and i'm not sure I can explain it and I'm sure it'll come out right even but you know I watched that whole thing and the arc of racial hate and anti-Semitism. I knew most of that but I

didn't know the build of it and how all these other Germans had you know run the thing. It's one of those things where, you know, who did Hitler actually, with his own hands, kill anybody? Uh, maybe his niece, but somehow he was the driving force of the massacre of millions and millions of people and the deaths of millions of Germans. And any time you watch that guy, or anything about him, the depth of depravity and the scope of evil is so fucking overwhelming It's it's hard to even wrap your brain around but there was an interesting moment

Where it just happened to me after watching that entire thing and it was towards the end spoiler alert Germany loses and Hitler kills himself But shortly before that towards the end of that last episode, he gives his dog, the dog he loved, he gives it cyanide to see how it works. That's the way this film went with it. Hitler just kills his beloved dog. And it was at that moment, for some reason,

in my mind, I'm like, what kind of fucking monster kills his own dog for no reason? That was the moment I'm like, well, Hitler, and he killed killed half of Europe. But it was the moment of the dog. I'm like, this guy is a fuck. The dog. Unreal. And I'm a Jew. Look, I know it's no fun to think about a burglary at your home, but if you do think about it, I bet you picture someone breaking into your home under the cover of darkness. But get this, most break-ins happen during broad daylight, and FBI statistics show they actually spike over the summer because more homes are sitting unattended during long days. So what can you do about that? Well it will take you no time at all to set up with SimpliSafe home security. We started using SimpliSafe eight years ago for

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any new SimpliSafe system when you sign up for FastProtect monitoring. Just visit simplisafe.com slash WTF, that's simplisafe.com slash WTF. There's no safe like SimpliSafe. Okay, look, here's what we're gonna do. This first part you're gonna hear of me and Paul this was from November 2010 So a little more than a year after we started the podcast and in his new book

Joyful recollections of trauma. He says the DNA of this conversation is throughout the book This came from episode 124 and this is what happened after about a half hour of comedy talk when I was convinced Paul was a pretty well-adjusted guy Just a note before you hear this Paul didn't identify his stepdad by name in his book So we're going to remove it from this older talk as well here. Listen up You know, I've always seen you around and we never really talked and then when we did I liked you But but you seem very well adjusted so I don't I don't understand that I you would be surprised. Yeah, like well I have I have I Have demons yeah, I have demons really do my mom got divorced three times, and I was a kid growing up

Yeah, yeah, that was a little rough. We lived a lot in small apartments and moved around Long Island I remember I had one stepdad who refused to let me call him by his name His name was he made me call him daddy, which is in retrospect weird but But yeah, I you know the craziest thing yeah I'll be embarrassed that my dad is probably gonna listen to this but my dad got into a fistfight with my stepdad in front Of me when I was a kid dad stepdad too. Yeah, yeah and that was crazy as a kid to see like your real dad and your stepdad like

Fight like fucking go for it. I was young. I was like I would like nine or what was that about? It was like I remember seeing it like my dad and I come back from apple picking and and my picking and watching videos and going to New York City loving it my dad and I went to a Martin Lawrence concert at Radio City Music Hall yeah one tell that and we were like in the center the only white people at this Martin Lawrence concert I was like begging him we gotta go see Martin I brought my dad to deaf jam comedy like he came my dad was a good trooper at all this stuff. You were a big hip hop guy?

I just, you know what, as a kid I was like, I didn't know, I loved, I don't say black comedy, but I know that was a thing. I loved Eddie Murphy, I loved Martin Lawrence, I loved that show. So I just was like, Def Jam, yes, I wanna see that. And then we'd also go see George Carlin every single year in New York City

and go see his shows. He's a good dad. Yeah, he was the best and But yeah, so they got to this fistfight like all I remember back from Apple picking back apples back from Apple picking sitting Coming in seeing my stepdad who's in a bathrobe my stepdad was a truck driver for a supermarket You know and and my dad came in and he goes you don't say fucking hello to me Bill And my dad's like my dad's like I said hello to you It's your fucking fault you didn't hear it that all of a sudden my stepdad picked up a coffee mug Fucking wailed it at the like my dad said my dad duck and it exploded on the wall

Oh, and then then all of a sudden like they just went at it like a grappling thing around my kitchen table My dad's the most nice, you know Well-adjusted guy and then all of a sudden apples are flying So like I'm throwing apples my dad is throwing apples like and they fight out until they like literally leave the house like outside the front door Like that kind of fighting my dad's a pharmacist that again like, you know, if my pharmacist fighting a truck driver It was like something I got of a Clint Eastwood movie it Was like boom boom it was insane insane Stuff you know that was like yeah, so how did that resolve itself it resolved itself very cheesily which was um

like hours later I got on the phone and Was on the phone in my house and my dad was on a payphone and they apologized to each other while I was in the middle like you know because I could be your benefit yes or my benefit to hear them apologize they all decided probably on your mom's instruction yes it wasn't a good thing for the kid to see exactly so they had to like get together and apologize over me so that was that was a yeah like that looking back on that that was a terrible Do you remember being upset? What was your reaction were you crying was it? Oh? Yeah?

I mean, it's it was all just chaos I can't chaos and also like crazy cuz it's like you're watching your dad get into a fight and I like the guy I didn't like it. Oh my my bill my dad loved my stepdad hated I'm like abusive fuck of a dude like a terrible your dad is bill my dad loved. My stepdad hated him. It was like the abusive fuck of a dude. Like a terrible dude. Oh, your dad is Bill. My dad is Bill, yeah. And your stepdad was a bitch.

And he was just an abusive bad dude. But yeah, he'd come home, like literally an arm and a cast because he got into a fight at work. Did he beat you up? Yeah, like a little bit. I mean, I say it very cavalierly, but yeah, like, I mean, we would get into some fucking fights. I can't even imagine that.

Like, I can't even imagine that. Like we, I lived on a farm and like we had horses and dogs and stuff and like, I would talk back a lot. Like I was my thing and yeah. That's what comics do. Yeah. And so that's like, that's how we find our voice. Yeah.

I got to a lot of, I was talking to you like people this weekend I was like I got into a ton of fights all until like eighth grade and I was like, oh I gotta stop Did you win? Yeah, because I was fighting a 40 year old guy at home Like that's why I was I was getting good at it out of all the people in the world I would never assume you were a scrapper. Oh god big time like I We're a scrapper. Oh god big time like I uh But you fight this big fucking 40 year old dude this fat Dude who's strong and like literally like throwing a pitchfork at me like and dodging a pitchfork like fuck out of here Oh, yeah, like getting locked up in like well. I can see why you see why your mom loved him

Oh, yeah, it was crazy like my mom. I think rebelled in the most crazy way because my dad's so Nice and great and then the man she's married to right now also wonderful and great, but I only got a good one Yeah, and I think it was just sort of like number. This is number three. This is number three So the first one first was my dad then it was then it was this guy and then it was this guy that she's married To now so I moved to three different houses, right? But there was dating involved in there, too So you're saying that that okay, so you was like your mom's fuck you to your dad Yeah, I think that she didn't she's like I want something different and she got something insanely

You know like it was it was a crazy fork a oh then that's not even the worst I mean like like like but I because of that kind of style of fighting I think I never realized how strong I was So like when I was in dodging pitchfork style Yeah, well like it was like you know you just learned to be like more of a grab you know like you know a lot of like just slaps and runs or punches in the stomachs and runs and But I was in sixth grade I got into this fight with this kid and he like gave me like a sixth grade punch like blue

You know punch in the face. I remember I oh no, this is the ninth grade. I'm sorry Yeah, he grabbed and I grabbed him by the neck and we were by a car and there was like a car fender Then I was like whap whap like his face into a car fender. We both Suspended from school. Yeah, you know and because he started it I got to go back and he got kicked out But it was but like that kind of like did not realize like I was fighting for a much you know Yeah, you're going for the fuck yeah money you're gonna. Yeah, did they have to pull you off him? I remember that was a time where like my knuckles were bloody from just like punching. Oh my god. It was a rough

Yeah, I was a bruiser. I had no fucking idea Paul. Sheer badass But I stopped I stopped that I had to give it up. I had to give it I because went to comedy. Yeah Yeah Just turned it into a different direction Yeah I just I couldn't I remember like honestly just being like I think at one fight when I was a kid This is like an early like yeah, the 10th or 11th grade being like I don't want to do this anymore I don't like this. I don't fuck you. mean, it must have been some sort of crossroads.

Thank God you had your real dad there. You know, you could have ended up just a fucked up kid. Yeah. For sure. I mean, what led to that decision? I think that my dad came every weekend. So he was able to kind of take me out and we would go- Oh, every weekend we'd go and do something fun. So it was like a break and he would also come like every Tuesday and Thursday I think to my house and like hang out.

So I saw my real dad a lot and I think that was a good relief. And then my mom kind of wised up at a certain point and she's like, oh, we're out of here. Yeah. And- Guy's throwing a pitchfork at my kid. This guy has more guns than he has shirts, you know.

Holy shit, how'd she shake him? That sounds like it would have been hard to shake that guy. This is it, you wanna hear how you shook him? This is a crazy thing my mom created She pretended that he won a trip a hunting trip. She like like created these envelopes It's like you won this trip and she did the layout and she did everything and he got up She got on plane tickets got him a hotel and created this whole fantasy

seven days away from him. The minute he left the house, a moving truck pulled in and we got all of our shit out of the house and we took off and we moved into a small one bedroom apartment or two bedroom apartment and just that was it. So he comes back and he comes back, the house is empty and then he found us at a certain point.

And that was weird. But you know, it was like he was on his best behavior at that point. Didn't she have to get divorced and everything? Yeah, she had to get divorced, but it was sort of like, that is where I'm a little foggy on how that happened. Like I'm just seeing it as a kid and being like,

okay, we're moving all of our stuff, let's get out of here. Oh my God. You know, and you know, so I didn't know how all that, how all that shook out, but yeah, we, yeah. Then my mom started dating him for a little bit. Like they went on a couple of dates and like one of his. Before the divorce to see if it would still. Yeah, it's stupid.

She got some boundaries. Exactly, and you know, thank God that didn't stick. I remember as a kid thinking to myself like, oh God, please, oh, you know, the worst part about it too, as a that didn't stick. I remember as a kid thinking to myself like, oh God, please. Oh, you know the worst part about it too, as a kid I was relieved. A was a born again Christian. Like, born again Christian to the point where you would, my mom got rebaptized in a big pool,

and the pool's in the front of the church, and everyone speaks in tongues. And you were there? Oh, I spent, how old? Oh God, for like three or four years. Like ninth grade? No, no, like probably like fourth to sixth grade, like in that area.

So you had to go to a born again Christian church? For like hours on a Sunday, like hours and hours. And it was like, everyone's like, and the Lord said, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, speaking in tongues and like people are getting healed and it was crazy. And like my parents took away,

my mom took my weird Al Yankovic in 3d album and Broke it over her knee because it was a song was on there was called nature trail to hell and it was on one of the the devil worship lists that like the the church had given them like these are your Children have any of these albums and one of them was a weird owl album you must find this and destroy it She destroyed in front of you. Yes, and that my LL cool. J. Oh shit Yeah, and I was crew was terrible I was crying like no my weird L is my weird L album like you ever tell weird out of that story

I did actually I got to tell weird out of that story, which was awesome and a great full 360 there Oh my god, he respond He just thought it was insane cuz it's the song is called nature trail to hell in 3d about going to a drive-in to see a horror movie called nature trail to hell in 3d like this there's nothing I mean, there's nothing satanic about weird Al Yankovic at all like in the no greatest stretch of the imagination But like, you know, and I'd listen to in excess my mom's like that might be Satan it might be you never know they're very cunning charming and that's it that was very funny yeah Satan comes in Hawaiian

shirts yeah you know yeah but my mom like took all my action figures away and gave me like Ten Commandments figures like I had like my Moses like literally got Moses action figure and he had like two tablets in his hand like the tank of man. You're kidding me. Oh, no It would you do with those action figures? I would play with them like I would play Batman or GI Joe like I'm like yeah I would I would like make them like I'd make Moses like swing down a pole and change and get into a Batmobile my I feel the Batmobile so Moses drive a Batmobile Moses in the Batmobile. so Moses drive a Batmobile. We still had the drive, it was crazy. You put Moses in the Batmobile?

No, it was insane. That was a dark period. I think about coming home to that house and my mom on a big, my mom's still on a religious tick watching Jesus of Nazareth, which was like a 12 part documentary of like, Yeah, I remember that. Yeah, and watching that over, that was her Saturday like, yeah, I remember that. Yeah, and like watching that, like over,

that was her Saturday nights, like watching that. Oh, God. Just like my mom has become better now. And you go up and you put Moses in the Batmobile. Yeah, and just drive around my, like, what am I doing? Like, you know, just terrible, like terrible, terrible times in my household, yeah. That is fucking grim, dude.

Oh, yeah, it was a dark, dark time. How did she come out of it? I think that it really was, I mean, you know, whatever. I say it cavalierly now, but it was dark. There was some points, I don't know if I saw everything that my mom experienced back then, because it was, I was away on the weekends. I think that's when it got rough.

I mean, I remember many times us going to, going to hotels and stuff like that. But bar none, I think this is the end of the, the beginning of the end for us was, there was a loaded handgun in our house. And I remember having my mom like held like a hostage with a handgun and seeing that as a kid what during a fight during a fight and that was like I remember like going what is going like that?

You know as a kid and as a kid I could say it now and I go wow like even thinking about now I'm like wow that was crazy dark like that's insane, but uh like as a kid it doesn't register I don't think is like what's going on. You just probably sense that your mom's in danger Yes, and that was like and I remember like you must have just been crying all the fucking time And I remember saying my mom like we got to get out of here like I'm in my mom's like no no no it's okay It's okay. I was like we got all we got to go. I did hit her too um yeah He hit me hit her. I mean, but you know what never to the point of like we never were hurt So I think that was like my, like that was always my kind of like line.

Like, oh well we don't have broken arms or we don't have this or we don't have that. Was there some party that felt bad for him? Um, no. No. No. He wasn't. No, I thought of it like he treated me like- He didn't even, he didn't cry and apologize and fucking, you know.

He would apologize, but he was like a, like he was like an older brother instead of a dad. So it was like that kind of relationship. So it was a lot of like, yeah, a lot of, like in a lot of like, you know, like I think he was like competitive for my mom's affection towards me, which is insane. It's like, well, that's a mother and a son. That's not, you're a husband.

And you know, so it would come out a lot in Indian burns. Like, you know, like, you know like you know like you know like that kind of stuff would you really hurt and but I do remember Calling like we like we called child protective services at one point and they came to the house and they interviewed our parents side by side and And they were like does this happen and my mom's like no and they talked to me I was like yes, they're like oh well the kids lying that the parents are telling the truth and then they're getting beaten for that. Yeah Oh, yeah, of course like there was crazy. I mean it was the gun thing though

So that you like shortly after your mom does that was about it. Yeah, I think it was about roughly that time Oh shit. Yeah, who's she married to now? She's married to a great guy this guy Walter awesome And you get along with your mom I get along with with my mom very well We actually have a better relationship How do you think you managed to not get as fucked up as many people in that situation aside from fighting you decided not to Fight anymore because your dad's influence, but I mean holy shit. I mean you're pretty fucking pleasant guy well, I think thank you for saying but I think I Think I had a good escape back then though in a way like I feel like, I don't know, I love TV and movies and I really got into comedy.

Moses and the Batmobile. Yeah, Moses and the Batmobile. But I really got into movies and TV. And the comedy was a real reprieve. Yeah, I listened to Smothers Brothers albums. I had all my dad's old Smothers Brothers albums and it was fun to sit and hear that. And I remember even reading reading like an article,

I think it was a Smothers Brothers article, like where I think they had some messed up parents. And I was like, and I remember going like, oh, okay, well that's cool because maybe they had messed up parents, I had messed up parents, maybe that that it evens out. Like it's like, that's why I'm like, if I want to do this, I have to have that or.

Well, but also I think there's something that I've experienced is that I never quite understood why until, you know, as I talked to have that. But also I think there's something that I've experienced is that I never quite understood why until, as I talked to more comedic performers, that when you think about doing comedy and you're coming from that, that you're really thinking about doing something that might have been the only thing that made you feel better.

Yeah. And that you can't really think of what else you would do. Yeah, I think you're right I think I remember like as a kid like I was like all I wanted to do was like do what Eddie Murphy does Like I want to be like Eddie Murphy won't be like Eddie Murphy I would just sit out on my front yard and act out sketches and just like talk to myself Did you know delirious? Oh, yeah, I watched delirious on HBO We didn't get HBO but back when cable was old you would have like a good hear, but you couldn't see.

And so that was weird. That half station. Yeah. You watch. Yo, so I would watch Delirious like that, like listening to Delirious. Oh, you saw like half of Eddie Murphy. Just like going in and out.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like it was like the, like, some of you had, yeah, it was just like, and I just remember watching that in tears, just streaming down my face going like, this is the funniest thing I've ever heard in my life. Boogie in my butt and like those albums. And I got away with a lot because my dad, I think would buy me these albums,

not realizing how dirty they were. But did you have to hide them at the other house or did you keep them at your dad's house? I kept them at my house. I would just listen to them in my room. No one would come up there to see what I was listening to. So they didn't have stand-up comedy tapes written on those lists, so I could have my Billy Crystal

You Look Marvelous album and listen to that and listen to Steven Wright. They didn't have an effective way to dramatically destroy tapes. Exactly, right. Records you could break. Yeah, these, they couldn't do anything. Yeah, it was all Bill Cosby, Emo Phillips,

Smothers Brothers. And it was like, Yeah, it was all like Bill Cosby emo Phillips mother's brother Yeah, and you know it was like it was yeah, it was great Like I just remember like and I didn't listen to music when I was a kid So I only listened to comedy I think maybe that's a trick to like I would never go to my room and back I'm listening to music I'd be like I go to my room and listen to albums like like had fun or dice clay I put on those and just sit there and just be like yeah. Yeah, and just laugh by yourself Yeah, and then.

You had siblings or you didn't? No siblings and wherever I lived, I had no buddy lived near me, no kids lived near me. So I was always alone in the neighborhood and there was no kids to play with after school. So it was always comedy and like I would, so sad. I would take like Running Scared was this like Gregory Hines, Billy Crystal movie, like a buddy comedy.

Yeah, I remember that, yeah. And I would take my tape recorder and put it by my TV and tape the movie on cassettes and Then bring those cassettes look with me on my bus to school and be like Listening to like movies like that like listen to full movies like like albums so like amazing. Yes, I did that You didn't have friends. Oh, I had friends. I had friends. I got I always seem to get like Like I got popular at certain points, but I was always a nerd like wherever I went the first two years I was a nerd and an outcast and the last two years I had friends. What was your what was your nerd focus? Was it just comedy or did you do other shit? Um, I mean where you was I mean, um, yeah, I guess I was an okay student

No Dungeons and Dragons no Dungeons and Dragons. I think I was just like in my own world. I think I was a little bit more of like a. An outsider. Yeah, like a kid who would be like drawing and then someone would be like, hey, and I'm like what? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, and look like, you know, like that kind of like. But then I like, I remember like,

I was making out with this girl in sixth grade and that was like, I was like one of the first kids to make out with a girl in sixth grade. And like that was, that ascended my popularity for a little bit. And then immediately like, I was like one of the first kids to make out with a girl in sixth grade. And like that was, that ascended my popularity for a little bit. And then immediately like the next year, I went to like a new school and then I was like back down in the dregs again.

Just, you know, I had it, I had it all. Now I lost it. Back amongst the people. Yeah, just terrible. Again, that was from episode 124 with Paul Scheer in 2010. So I listened to that conversation with Paul before having this new one. So this is now like it's almost like a part two. It's like a follow-up to what's happened with his life since he first started dealing with what happened to him as a kid. Okay, so now we are with Paul. Current day, this new book, Joyful

Recollections of Trauma is available now wherever you get books. Here we go. Me and Paul, a few weeks ago. With VisiHeart Seltzer, you can follow your vibe. Whether you're looking to bring the energy to your next pre-drink with our new 7% ABV Vizzy Max pack, or indulge in a leisurely afternoon brunch with our refreshing mimosa pack, Vizzy has got you covered. Discover our other variety packs for even more flavors

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Like it's been 14, 15 years. 15 years since we have done this. It's crazy, dude. It's nuts. Because I feel like I see you, I'm a fan of yours, I listen to the podcast, watch your movies, and I see you at Largo all the time. But yeah, when I looked at that today,

I was like, that's... I know we see each other around, but we're not in each other's lives, we'll say. But what I was gonna say is you don't look any different. It's the gift of the baldness. I talk about that all the time. Bald men don't age. It really does. you don't look any different. It's the gift of the baldness. I talk about that all the time. Bald men don't age. It really does.

You don't see that much. It's great. You suffer early on when you're in your 20s and bald. You look at it and you're like, ah, that poor son of a bitch. But then when you get in your 40s, it's like, oh, all right, it all evens out. It all comes back.

Yeah, bald men are, that's the one thing I can say to bald men, keep it short, and don't worry about it if you go bald early. Yeah, it's kind of amazing, you look timeless. So again, as soon as I grow my hair out, which it is now, because I have to go do this role and I want to give them options,

so I leave all the hair I have. Yeah, and then like build the guy. Right. Yeah, but most of the time. So you don't get nervous about that. Like you don't get nervous like walking around with a look that is not your own. What after?

Just like while you're shooting it. I've kind of sucked it up. You know, like I've, one time I did a no mustache. Okay. And that was weird, but you know, it was me and it was kind of a welcome change. There's, when I was on Black Monday, the show I did with Don Cheadle and Regina Hall. Oh, yeah, that was a good show.

Super fun show. So in the second season of that show, my character was on the run, so I'd shave off my beard and have a mustache. Just a mustache. And I gotta tell you, the looks that people gave me with just a mustache... Different?

It was different. It was a different vibe, especially when it was coming in. Like, once it got to its full potential Yeah, people are like I like the mustache But the growing in part is the part where people like you might be a pedophile. Yeah, something about it. Yeah, right Yeah, you're projecting a little bit. I mean, I think we get invested in this stuff I don't like like I when I get very hairy I get look very old and and disheveled right because all the gray comes out

But like if they cut my all my hair off, it's alright. Yeah, I don't I want to keep the facial probably I don't know what they're gonna do. I I don't You know, but most of the time I get there. They're like, we're just gonna leave it and I'm like, well make me something else I like the idea that you can transform into a character. You want them to do that. You're like, -"Yeah, let me get in." -"I know, let's do it." And they're like, but we kind of like this. I'm like, ah, fuck. I just want to look different. Like, on Glow, that guy just had a mustache

and he had that hairdo. And that was enough. That was enough to go on. But it feels like when we watch these great performances, like, people have totally transformed. But you look at Adam Driver. He looks the same in every movie. A lot of them look the same. Yeah, you know Brad Pitt give or take Yeah looks the same Clooney occasionally some stubble stubble that's all you get ours

I I'm not I don't think I'm I've let go of the idea that I'm going to be a transformative actor Like if you know if you let me commit to a jacket or some pants Like I don't think Sam Sylvia changed his pants in the entire seasons of Glow. When I was on Fresh Off the Boat, I never wore a different shirt. It was always the same shirt. And it's like, I looked forward to that shirt.

And I loved that shirt because it was a Kenny Rogers brand shirt. So for a short period of time, Kenny Rogers was manufacturing shirts. I miss that. Why did that stop? I don't know, it was a good looking shirt. He did chickens, did shirts. The guy was manufacturing shirts. Oh, I miss that. Why did that stop? I don't know. It was a good-looking shirt. He did chickens, did shirts. The guy was a talent.

Yeah, yeah. I don't know, man. How do you feel about acting these days? Good? I feel the same way that I always feel about it, which is I'm happy when I get to do it and someone wants me to do something in their thing, but I can't expect someone

to want me to do anything. I think everything that I've done. I looked at your thing, because I'm like, I'm gonna catch up, see what's going on, take a look at the Wikipedia, and it looks like you've done a thousand things. I just, I try to work, I try to create my own stuff, I try to just be busy, you know?

But that's, I feel like you just have to keep on hustling. You got all these producer credits. What's that? I make some shows. You make shows? I make shows. I mean, we produced, you know, I made Human Giant with Aziz. Well, that was way back. But that gave me at least a cache to say,

I've made a show. Right. And then I got a chance to work with a good DOLT Swim, because I got to make my own show over there, this NTSF SDSE. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then that kind of begot more things. You know, like, if you can do something and deliver and be on time and be a nice, reasonable person,

you can produce. And I feel like... You've done networked shows? Yeah, I did a Fox show called Party Over Here with the Lonely Island guys. And we had an all-female sketch show with Nicole Byer, Alison Rich, and Jess McKenna. Super fun.

So it's sketch, so it's your area. You're not just producing procedural. No, yeah, I'm not gonna be like, I'm not doing like a New York PD or something like that. I'm not going into that world, but I think you know this too. It's like doing this, doing the podcast, doing all these things.

You wanna have your hands in it. I wanna have some control. Right, yeah, but I don't look for the other work. Like I'm going doing the podcast, doing all these things, you wanna have your hands in it. I wanna have some control. Right, yeah, but I don't look for the other work. Like I'm going with the podcast, I'll do the standup, they want me to act, so I resist it, but I don't ever sit around and think like, how can I make myself more overwhelmed with work? I look at it more like,

if I'm not getting work for myself, I can't expect anyone else to do it for me. If someone brings me something, great. But 90% of the stuff that I feel like I get is through personal relationships. It's like I can't just go in and expect, okay, I can get this audition, here we go. No, I don't, yeah, I don't even think about that. But I guess for me doing this show in the standup,

I'm like, I'm good. How much, I don't need to produce much more. I'll play some music here and there. And I'll show up for stand-up, I'm like, I'm good. Yeah. How much, I don't need to produce much more. I'll play some music here and there. And I'll show up for these acting things occasionally. I'm very resistant to acting. You are, you see, but you are somebody who was completely embraced as soon as you started acting. I feel like when you were on Glob.

I did a few things. Yeah, and it was great. I think I'm, I think they see me as a type. I mean like it's it's not like I'm 60 I'm a cranky You know kind of intense sensitive Jewish guy I can see you perfectly on young Sheldon the spin-off of young Sheldon could put you in anything This is the perfect age when you get to 60. This is where the world opens up because everyone's dropped off Well, yeah, I'm gonna start getting all the Judd Hirsch parts when he drops dead. Can he turn up the Jew a little? -♪ PEDRO LAUGHS I'm in sixth grade, so I don't know what the, I almost bad at like remembering what, 11? Yeah, that's right, yeah.

And I'm in sixth grade and my dad and I go out to LA and we read in one of these guidebooks, the best thing to do in LA is to go to Hollywood on location, which is this little, like little office in Beverly Hills. Still exist? I don't think so. I would imagine.

It seems like a great racket, cause they're just getting the rundowns that anyone could get. Yeah, you go and you pay them $75, they give you a photocopied printout of everything that's shooting in LA exteriors. And they just send you on your way. You just go. You could hang around wherever you want.

And that was a time where, I mean, if you were a stalker, it told you who was there. It's like, okay, highway to heaven. Victor French and, you know, and Michael Landon will be here. I think it's relatively public information, isn't it? I think so. I think if you're smart, you could figure out, like, who pulled permits and what is it for?

And I think that's why they started changing names. And that might have been part of their... Oh, on the little placards for what's shooting? Yeah. Yeah, so I think that that may have been what they were offering if they had different placards. But we went, my dad and I, we went and we saw Michael Landon.

And this is a time where you would be near a set and you could just, I have a picture of me standing next to Michael Landon as he's talking to his DP, like directing a shot with a cigarette in his mouth and like framing up a shot. And I'm like, how the fuck am I that close to this? Like you would never get that close. But they just, every one of these productions,

these people would just bring you in. So I met like David Carradine and he signed an autograph with like a yin yang symbol and you know, and a meeting marquee post and I went on the set of Simon and Simon. And then we end up at this movie Communion and I don't know what this is and the security guard approaches us and says,

you wanna meet a celebrity? And I'm like, yeah, I've met a bunch today. And he was like, but this is. And the security guard approaches us and says, you wanna meet a celebrity? And I'm like, yeah, I met a bunch today. And he's like, but this is the biggest of them all. And I'm like, oh, who is it? And he's like, Christopher Walken. Now as an 11 year old, I have no idea. I'm not watching deer hunter. I'm not watching dead zone.

And my dad's like, no, no, you know him. He's the bad guy from the James Bond movie. And I'm like, oh, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I wanna meet this guy. He goes, all right, hold on one second. Guy walks in this like walks oh, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I wanna meet this guy. He goes, all right, hold on one second. Guy walks in, this like walks away, comes back out, and he's like, all right, Christopher wants to meet you, but no camera, no parents.

And I look at my dad and my dad's like, do you wanna go? And I'm like, yeah, yeah, I wanna go. So I give him my camera, and this guy takes me across the street, and we go into this abandoned warehouse. And he kinda opens the door, I walk in and he shuts it behind me. He stays outside and now we're in this dark ass warehouse,

like a little bit of light peering in through the doors. And then from out of the darkness comes Christopher Walken. Now again, I'm not super familiar with him at this time. And he's in this movie where he is communing with aliens. So it's an alien movie and his face is pasty white makeup and it's like sparkling and he's wearing like these contact lenses. So seeing this image just come out of the darkness,

I was like, I'm kind of frozen. And he's like, hello little man. And he touches me and he's like, do you believe in aliens? And I go, yes. And he's like, yeah you believe in aliens? And I go, yes. You know, and he's like, yeah, I do too. We're making a movie about aliens. Yeah, you know, and I'm like, oh yeah.

And he's like, what do you wanna do when you grow up? And I said, I wanna be an actor. And I don't know what I'm doing at this point because he's talking to me. Like I've gone over, Michael Landon just signed and I walked away. Like it was just like, you know, just get it. And he's like engaging me.

And then he gets down on his knees, and he puts his hands on my shoulders and kind of looks me in the eye. He goes, don't let anyone tell you what you can or cannot do. And then like signs my autograph, and then releases me. And as a long queue, like the door opens,

the security guard comes and takes me out. I'm like, I don't even know what happened here. But it was like forever burned in my brain. Like I had this meeting with Christopher Walken and I would tell people like, I met Christopher Walken. I don't even, like, I didn't even feel like I knew him. And as I got older, I'm like, oh my God, that's the craziest thing.

But I always remembered this man in this white face just grabbing me and telling me, don't let anyone tell you what you can be. Oh, my God. Now, have you run into him anywhere? Never, and I don't want to. I don't want... You don't want to... You want to keep it pure? Yeah, because there's something so great about that. Like, you know, it's in my mind, it's like, I can't top it.

So, like, it will only go downhill. I'll be like, oh, yeah, I met him again, and he was asleep in a chair, and he was... Well, it was just so funny that in that era, like, it's such an abstract, kind of like, you know, Michael Landon and Keith Carradine. They were on television then. Yeah, exactly.

And it was, these are, you know, they're trivia question answers. 100%. You know, Walken is still, you know, vital to a degree, and notoriously himself. Just an interesting guy who you're like, of all the people to meet, that was the best one of the day. I remember when I was growing up in Albuquerque,

they were shooting the movie Convoy. Okay. It was Sam Peckinpah's, maybe his last movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was not a great movie, but it had everybody in it. And I remember that we found out they were all staying down at the Hilton, and I just started hanging around.

I met Ali McRaw. I met Ernest Borgnine. Ernest Borgnine. That's what I wanted. Dressed as a cop, a sheriff of some kind. Trying to remember who else I met. I met Peckinpah. I was trying to get pictures with them. Yeah.

I don't know what happened to those pictures, But you could just walk around and do that. And it felt like everyone was cool with it. Like that's what I'm saying, these security guards are LAPD officers. They're like, oh, come here, you're a kid. Come closer. And it's like, and get, you know, when I was a kid growing up,

my dad and I would go to a bunch of basketball games in Madison Square Garden. And I could just walk right into the press rooms because they're like, oh, well, he's clearly a kid of somebody, but we're not going to stop a kid. And I would just walk behind the scenes. I met basketball players.

I did everything just because I can't believe my dad let me just go off and walk. I'm going to go wander. And I just would get in and find my way back. But yeah, I met like Patrick Ewing and stuff in a hallway just because, again, no one's going to stop a kid. And there was different, like, I remember I was in Vegas. I can't remember, my brother was a big tennis kid.

And there was some invitational there. You know, sadly, it might have been Bill Cosby's. Oh, yeah. And it was a big tournament. And like, Bjorn Borg was there, John Mackenroll, these are my brother's heroes. And we're just walking around the courts grabbing pictures. Nobody was around.

And no one was there to protect you. By the way, I do have a story in that book too about Bill Cosby, which was the same thing at Madison Square Garden. We're watching some college basketball. And again, I put this in context because I think a lot of people now know Bill Cosby for everything that's gone on in the last decade, right?

But when I was a kid, he was the, he was the king of all men. The Cosby show was huge. It was like a show I loved. They taped it every week. And I see him down there and I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm gonna go talk to Bill Cosby. And I go down and I wait for a timeout in the game and I just really approach him and go, Mr. Cosby,

can I have an autograph? No, nothing. Like I wasn't even there, like a ghost. And I'm like, Mr. Cosby, hi, Mr. Crosby can, hi, Mr. Crosby. And he's just staring forward, but there's nothing going on to watch. So he's just zoned, right, in the front. And I don't know, I'm a young kid, I don't know to take this as a fuck you, right? So I just kind of, then I'd start standing there

awkwardly next to him, just waiting until he turns around. And then his head just turned almost like a bird's head, like where his whole body stayed center, but his head just turned new. And I was like, oh, I'm gonna go to the bathroom. And then his head just turned almost like a bird's head, like where his whole body stayed center, but his head just turned and he was like, go. And I was like, okay.

And I just got the fuck out of there. It's the scariest thing, like go. And it was, it still chills me to my core, because as a kid, this was the nicest guy of all time. Yeah, those are the heartbreakers. Yeah, and it was just like, and not even like, I'm not signing autographs. It was like a straight up ignore and then go. Yeah, there are people we know that do that.

I have such an issue with this, because I've seen friends of mine do this thing where they won't take a picture. But by the time they get done explaining why they won't take a picture, you could have taken five pictures and been done with it. Because it's always like, Hey, can I get a picture? Oh, sorry, I'm not, I'm not taking pictures. And then the person's like, Oh, wait, what? Oh yeah, I'm not gonna, I'm actually not taking pictures right now. Oh, really? Just come on for me. No, man, I'm not gonna take a picture. Like, all this back and forth, four, and it's like just, click, there you go, you got it.

Yeah, I guess, I don't know, I guess it's a boundary, and I can understand it if it starts, sometimes depending where you are, it can start a flurry. 100%. Depending on who you are. Especially after a show or something, if you're trying to get out,

or you just wait till it's just stragglers, even if you take one, then all of a sudden, you just see them coming back in. I feel like I always, I'm always down for it because I think at the end of the day, I'm like the only reason why I'm able to do any of this is because people listen to stuff, watch stuff. I do it, and some part of me just kind of like,

I walk into some different mode where it's not exhausting, and I just do it. And again, we're not Denzel Washington. Of course. So it's like a whole, yeah. Some guy in the truck said, hey Mark, come here, can I get your autograph? And I'm like, isn't a picture easier?

Yeah, like autograph seems like such an old school thing. What are you gonna do with a piece of paper? Put that up on a wall. I remember I bought an autograph when I was a kid. I was so excited. I saved up my money to buy a Quentin Tarantino autograph. And I'm like, and what am I doing with this? Like, it's not even one that I got, so I have no personal connection to it.

Well, you could've become one of those guys that hang around in the back doors of places. You know those guys? You ever go to the airport and there's five of them there? And no matter where you go, it all looks like the same guy. It looks like the same group of guys. And they, and what, and those those guys are them not the nastiest But they can be the most aggressive because a lot of the times they're making you sign a blank blank

Photosheet and I'm like, okay, I'll sign too. Come on. Come on And I'm like, I'm also like you're not making any money off of these I don't even know what the autograph trade don't even know what it is either. It must be some sort, I'd like to know more. Why doesn't someone do a doc on those guys? Because it's like, are they trading them? Are they competing? Because I'm not making them any money. No, I get baseball cards.

I get like that kind of stuff. But like, autographing a picture, I've looked on eBay, because I had the same, I'm like, maybe you're gonna get eight bucks. Maybe, you know, that's me, you know, I mean, but it's like, you're not gonna get, it's not a windfall. Yeah.

Well, maybe they got faith in you. Maybe it's almost like that. It's like you're gambling. Right. Like, I wonder how much this is gonna be worth in two years. Right, if I do something really messed up, it would be worth a lot. Like, you know, like, hey, I got a,

what's the guy who played Beretta? You know, I got a Robert Blake. I got a Robert Blake, you know, hey, oh, all right, this is good. I sent away, I got a way I got a Robert Blake, you know, hey Oh, all right. This is good. I sent away I knew a kid in in junior high that used to collect autograph pictures and he just send you know Yeah, I did too. I got I remember I got Buddy Hackett's I love it got Buddy Hackett sign picture. I got a Mae West These are great. I got Steve Martin Paul riser

guy like Yeah, I've got like a David Letterman. I got Steve Martin, Paul Reiser. I got like, yeah, I got like a David Letterman. I got a couple of these. Yeah, and they're great. Like you would just send away and you, and it was so fun to get it. It felt like, whoa, someone's reading this mail. Like, you know, the fact that they were like, even that celebrities are sending eight by tens,

like autographed by tens is a kind of a crazy idea. Well, what happened with Alan Maldon? Oh, so this is when, again, when I'm a kid, I am with my grandma. My grandma and her bridge friends, and we're sitting at this restaurant in the Hamptons, and there's Alan Alda at this other table. Now again, Alan Alda, I like him a lot more now,

but as a kid, MASH was a boring show to me. I wanted to watch Different Strokes, I wanted to a lot more now, but as a kid, MASH was a boring show to me. Like, I wanted to watch Different Strokes, I wanted to watch, you know, Silver Spoons, Happy Days, like, MASH was a, I don't know why MASH was a bummer, maybe it was a theme song, it was not my show. Yeah. And my grandma's like, go, go talk to Alan Alda.

And I'm like, I don't want to. She's like, go, go, you gotta talk to him. And I'm like, I don't, I don't, I don't, I'm like, I don't really even know him that well. And she's like, go. So I go, and I approach the table, and I go over, and I't really even know him that well. And she's like, go. So I go and I approach the table and I go over and I wait for a break in the conversation. I'm being polite because they're having lunch.

And I go, Mr. All, can I have your autograph? And he goes, no, just no. And that was the first time I've ever been rejected especially as a a kid, like, I didn't know you could say no. And I wasn't expecting that. No. I was like, and I'm now stuck. And I start walking away. He's like, you know what, actually, kid, name three things I'm in.

And I'll give you an autograph. And, uh, and I'm like, now I'm, now I'm stumped. And now everyone at the table's kinda laughing because they're watching me, like, fump fur. I'm like, mash? And, um, um, of laughing because they're watching me like from for I'm like mash and And then like, you know, he cuts me off he's like not such a fan and I'm like and he's like Okay, and sends me on it didn't sign me an autograph or anything Just sends me on my way back and and I and I just was mortified, right?

Like he just shut me down so hard and And then my grandma's laughing so hard, like, ha ha ha ha, you idiot. I'm like, I didn't even want to go. I didn't want to talk to this guy. And everything I've heard about him is he's a lovely guy. He's a lovely guy. I'm sort of surprised by that story. I think what it is is, and this is my gut,

is that he probably caught that this table of women were, like, pointing at him, looking at him, and then force this little kid on him. Because again, yeah. So why not have the kid? I'm not watching, yeah, well, yeah. I guess that's the other side of it. I'm not like watching four seasons.

Believe the kid. And I will never forget that image of a table full of adults like, thinking this is the funniest thing. And I had this other moment. It actually makes me think of this. I grew up in Long Island. You know, it's outside of New York. It has a very unique energy to it.

It's kind of jockey, but it's kind of like... working class too. There's an energy to it that I just can't find anywhere else. And I went out to my cousin's communion, and we were going to this Italian restaurant afterwards. that I just can't find anywhere else. And I went out to my cousin's communion and we were going to this Italian restaurant afterwards. And at this point, I'm very early on in my career. I don't really have that much there.

And this guy, you know, is automatically threatened by me. They're like, you know, Paul's a comedian. He does stuff. He's like, oh, you guys comedian? This guy's a comedian? And then it starts like, give me a joke, you know? And that whole thing. I'm like, oh, I don't really do that. And he's like, and then whatever happened in that interaction,

I got put in a headlock by this guy. I was like, you're funny? And I'm like, this is a fucking major D at this restaurant who now has me in a headlock at an Italian restaurant, just because I am there and I am in comedy. And I didn't know what, I was like sweating in this weird way.

I don't even know how to get out of this. I don't know if this is proving that you're funnier I like I don't even know how to get out of this I don't know if this is proving that you're funnier than me that you now have me in a headlock I don't know what which has happened and like I just like left like just show Why am I being bullied by what come eat what are you supposed to do with that? You know, I mean are there comedians that go like I got one for you Well, this is the when one night I went out and Russell Crowe had, we had gone,

the head of MTV invited us out for dinner, Human Giant, all of us, and we're out for dinner and Pauly Shore also came. And so Pauly's at this table, I've never met Pauly Shore before, and we're all hanging out there, and then Russell Crowe walks by the table, and he's like, Paulie, Paulie!

And he comes over, and then Paulie just kind of like, necks him, like, I don't remember meeting you, man. And he's like, what? You don't remember meeting me? We were on the talk show, we did this thing, we did this. And he's like, nah, man, I don't know. And then makes Russell get more amped up, like, come on, we did this, we did this. And he just pulls over a chair, doesn't move that,

I've never seen anyone do in my life, where he like waves over to the major D and goes, can you, that's too bright. So the major D gets up on the table, unscrews two light bulbs above our heads. And now we're in the darkness. And then we just start sitting with him and he finds out that we're comedians. And he goes, tell us a darkness. And then we just start sitting with him,

and he finds out that we're comedians, and he goes, tell us a joke. And then we're all like, we don't have jokes. We're not that kind of comedian. Exactly. And he goes, all right, all right, you know what? I'll tell you a joke. And then he had jokes, and it was like,

he was like, it was like, I always remember, I kind of remember the punch, it was like, I always remember, there is like, I kind of remember the punchline. It was like, you know, it was the punchline was like, Jesus wasn't giving the sign of the cross. He was just trying to swat away a fly. He was like, mm, mm, like, and it was like, and he's like, that's a joke.

And we're like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's like, all right, so give me a joke. And we're like, we don't all have them. He's like, all right, here's another one. And he had them locked and loaded, ready to give us like a million jokes. And was so mad that we didn't have it. And then for a while, I kept like five like street jokes

in my phone, like just under the notes app. Like, whenever I'm in this situation, I'm gonna be like, okay, here it is. Because I couldn't bear dealing with that anymore. I've got jokes, but like, and I can tell street jokes, but it always seems like, it always seems like provoking. Yeah. It's never sort of like,

I want to hear the funny guy tell a thing. It's like, what do you got? Yeah, it impressed me right now. It's like, it would be like, you know, like saying to like, you know, LeBron James, like, all right, shoot a free throw right now. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, show me. I mean, that's even easier. Right, I guess you're right. Yeah, exactly. You know what I mean? Where's the ball right? Yeah

The worst that could happen is you miss it's like but there's like this thing where it's like prove it I can't I don't know what like a prove it. There's nothing to prove. I went to a high school reunion a couple years ago I don't know how long it's good must have been my Was that fun? No, it wasn't great because it was, you know, it seemed to be arranged by exactly the kids you didn't like in high school. Yeah.

And it wasn't everybody and it was a weird mix, but I knew most of them. But like the one, the organizer, one of these women who, you know, I didn't, wasn't close to in high school. She's like, so do you wanna go do some comedy? You're a comedian, right? And I'm like, I couldn't wasn't close to in high school. Yes, right So do you want to go do some comedy or comedian right now? I'm like I couldn't think of a thing. I would rather do fucking less Then go up in front of the this this school that embarrassed me like the every it's so triggering dude

It's these are the things I was talking about this There's some come into do that kind of comedy like Jeff Ross will be like sure no problem Right guys who would do it. I'm not that kind of guy. I mean, it also, you're right. You have to really work a room. And it's really like turning a room around because people are not ready. They don't want, they, it's like, it's not,

that's not a good form for success ever. But also I know, like, I saw the jocks. I knew all the, and like, most of the guys that I was friends with weren't even there. So we would be giving these guys a second opportunity in my grown up life to be like, he's not that good. I saw him, he wasn't that funny. Yeah, I don't even remember him.

You remember that kid? Yeah, I mean, what the fuck would I do that for? Apparently he has like a radio show or something. There's that. There's that whole thing, like you finally get something and then your parents are like, I don't know what you're doing. I was on Veep and my mom says to me, she's like,

I've been watching you, I haven't seen you on the show. And I'm like, what do you mean you haven't seen? I've been on like every week this last month and she's like, I haven't seen it. And I'm like, what are you, like, I'm so, I'm like, but no, but I'm on the show and she's like, what scenes? And I'm like, well, Nick, like I'm in like the CBS stuff. She's like, I don't know what that is.

And I go, okay, what scenes have you seen? She's like, the dog, are you in any of the scenes with the dog? And I go, the dog, there's no dog on the show. And then she's, and then I realized she was watching Madam Secretary, which is like a T. Leoni, like CBS hour long, where it's like, it was about a female president.

My mom interpreted Veep as female president, which then became- Can't win, can't win. And then she was like, I actually liked that show. And I'm like, well then did you never watch Veep? She never watched it. No, she was like, she liked Madam Secretary. Yeah, when you finally get to a place

where you feel like you've leveled off, I remember my dad once said to me, you ought to talk to Bill Maher, he seems to know what's going on. I'm like, what about what? Like how do they judge success? Well, I remember my mom would always say- That generation was Alan Alda.

Yeah, it's like you're on a show that everybody watches. Not everybody watches anything. I will only be successful to my parents if I'm ever on like the Kelly Ripa show. Like I feel like that, like Regis and Kathy leader, but they're like, oh, could you ever get on, could you ever get on Kelly Ripa? And I'm like, no, they won't book me on that.

They aggressively will never book me. And I've tried so many times just because I know. Just to placate your mom. Yeah, I'm just like, I wanna be on this because my grandma then can show it, everyone can show it. And that would be the one thing that would establish. Yeah, but you only get four minutes.

I don't even need to be funny. It's just to be like. Oh, you don't think you do. Yeah. You know, you get on there, you like, you look nice, but they didn't let you talk. Well, and, but to me, all they need to see is that I was on this thing that they liked.

Yes. And that was, and like in a weird way, it's like they don't, they're not listening, they're never listening to the things, you know. I did Colbert a few times. My mom, she walked into that. My dad seems to think I've done something, so it's okay. No, my parents are, they're definitely supportive

and they watch, but they never quite understand it. If you're not the star, what are you doing? And then the other things I'm on are too dirty, so they don't watch that. And then it's like, oh, and I was like, my mom didn't have show time, so she couldn't watch Black Monday. And I go, you want me to, I'll buy you a subscription.

She's like, nah. I'm like, all right. All right. So what made you, like the last time I talked to you in 2010, let's start the podcast. Yes, all right. Maybe. Ah!

It's great catching up. Yes, all right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was great catching up. Yeah. Let's get the thing in the can here. No, but I mean, it seemed to me that when you talked about this stuff about your stepfather. Yeah.

And it was very, I re-listened to it because to me it was one of these big moments on the podcast. Yeah. Because I misjudged or assumed who you were. Right. That was like that moment. You're like, all right, so I guess like what? You're just a happy guy. Nothing goes wrong.

I haven't listened back to it because I was like, I didn't know, you know, I was like, I just remember it so kind of clearly. Yeah. I was like, it's like kind of like, and it was like, but you did that thing that I feel like is a great trick of an interviewer where you're just like, nah, well, I guess that's it.

You know, that's it. And it's like, you know, it's like, it's like the Columbo thing. It's like, one more thing. Did you do this? And you're like, oh, and then you get like, yeah. And yeah, you said that. You said that.

You sound like a pretty well-adjusted guy. Yeah. And you're like, no, I've got some. I'm like, like what? And then you're like, you have this fight. Your dads are fighting. You're punching people. You're hitting a there's a fight, your dads are fighting, you're punching people, you're hitting a guy's head on a fender. Yeah. It was, you know, I think, and that was the first

time that I ever really talked about it publicly. And it was interesting because, you know, we're talking here and it's casual. And if you and I were out, I would have that conversation with you. I would talk to you about it. But when did people that you know hear that and go like, Jesus Christ? Absolutely, because I don't talk about it. I never talk about it. But if you were to have said that to me privately, I would feel comfortable saying it, but I just don't bring it up.

And then you did. And I went there, and it was this weird moment in my life, because at that point, it was this kind of reckoning with, this is a part of my life that at that point, it was this like kind of reckoning with, this is a part of my life that I don't talk about. I never, I never, I just don't let people in. Like maybe a handful of people know this. And why am I not doing that?

And I was like, oh, because it's my parents. I don't want my, my parents have created a certain reality that I am also ascribing to. They're gonna, we don't talk about this. That's a big question. It's also sort of like, yeah, out of respect for them, but then you get to a point where you're like, but this is my life.

Right, I'm an adult, I have this thing. And I remember I went home and I was like, oh shit, I gotta call my folks. Because if they hear it, or if someone says that they heard it, it's the first time I've ever really talked about it. And that was a good, that, you know, you're thanked in my thank you because that honestly started this journey for me.

And again, I don't wanna sound too lofty about this, but to kind of reclaim that, or at least own this part of me that I would never really talk about. And now look, 14 years later, it's when I finally was able to kind of wrestle with it in a way that I think do it in a healthy way. And a funny way.

In a funny way, right? Like I didn't wanna write a book that felt like therapy. Well, yeah, well people are like, oh my God, that poor guy. Yeah, no, because like the prose is funny. And also like, you know, the act of writing helps you process. I think so, it was interesting like why I wanted to,

I don't even know if I, it was like that podcast that we did started a little bit of this snowball effect where I didn't know it was leading, but I felt like I needed to grasp it. And even when I started to write this book, I was like, oh, I'll just write the funny anecdotes. I'll just do the funny stuff and it'll be good. And I read those back and I was like, ah, it just doesn't feel like book-worthy.

It doesn't feel like this is a book. Got to mix in the real shit. Right, and this is like that wrestling with this thing of like, all right, well, if I'm gonna go there, I have to go there, and how do I go there? And before I tried to sell the book or even had an agent, I just was writing. I was like, let me just write.

Really? Yeah, I was like, let me just write. Yeah, I was like, let me write to see what I have. Did you go to therapy? Oh, yeah, I've gone to therapy. I started probably in like 2005, off and on through now. And I think that like, in the sense that this is not therapy, but I think it's a reflection of therapy. Giving you the foundation to talk about it in a way,

because you don't do what I do. You started a podcast right after you were online, but it's a completely entertainment-driven podcast. Right, it's not about personal stuff. We're not interested in people just watching movies. And also the comedic work you do isn't really. No. So there's like this whole other area, your private life.

Yeah, and I think I've, I've, you know, I draw a line on certain things where it's like, you know, I don't post pictures of my kids online. I try to keep my relationships, you know, like in that way, sort of private, but there was something really interesting about telling this story because I also felt like when I became a parent, it completely recontextualized my own childhood. Because I was like, oh, I can look at this. Like, even when I became a parent, it completely recontextualized my own childhood. Because I was like, oh, I can look at this.

Like, even when I was on your show, I could tell you those stories, but I see it completely differently now. Same story, same thing, but it's like... Yeah, no kids. Yeah, no kids. And once you, I think, for me, having kids like, put me in the position of being a parent

and thinking about what if I was in this situation as a parent, I saw this happen to my kid, what would I do? And in a weird way, I think it brought up a lot of anger for me for the first time because I think I was so like, oh, my parents did the best they can. And I love my parents,

I have a great relationship with them, but. Not the stepdad. Not the stepdad, yeah, no. But I was, I think I have a great relationship with them. Not the stepdad. Not the stepdad, yeah, no. But I think I wasn't looking at it, I was kind of doing the thing that my parents do, and I don't know if you can identify with this, but it's like, there's this mentality of,

if you're, you know, you're fine. It's, you know, nothing's broken, you're not dead, you're fine, don't obsess over it. Which just means, in other words, somehow you got through it. Right. And you're not dead, you're fine, don't obsess over it. Which just means that, in other words, like, somehow you got through it. Right. And you're not a mess. This man, like, I had a home invasion when I was a young kid.

This guy, like, my stepfather owed money to this guy. This guy came, thought my stepfather was home, and I told him that he wasn't, and then proceeded to kind of try to break in to my house. And, you know, it heightens to this point where he's coming through the window, and I have this, like, wooden ninja sword that I had from a Halloween costume,

and I'm just fucking fighting this guy who's, like, kind of like Winnie the Pooh-ing through my window, because he's, like, half in, half out. I'm like, ah, and I'm just slapping him, and, you know, and he leaves. And, you know's like half in, half out. I'm like, ah, and I'm just slapping him, and he leaves, and my mom couldn't come home. My mom was at work, and so then the cops come,

but he's already left, and I'm left alone in this house for the rest of the day, kind of frightened out of my fucking mind. I never understood, this is home invasion, literally. And I don't know what to do. And I'm telling my parents this, and they're like, oh, well, but you're okay. It's fine. And they knew the guy.

Yeah, right, yeah, it's like, he just needed the money back. And it's like, but that idea of like, when you're forcing yourself not to process anything, like, you know, my kids now, I try to do very much, I try to process with them, like even if I think it's ridiculous. We last night talked for 45 minutes

because my kids thought that they might be killed by an assassin. Like, you know, they saw this MrBeast video, MrBeast, this YouTube guy, and he's like, I hired an assassin to track me down. And they said to me, what's an assassin, dad? And I was like, oh, it's like somebody you hire to kill somebody.

Shouldn't have said it so cavalierly, didn't realize what I was saying. And as they're going to bed, my youngest son is, I was like, um, could an assassin kill me? And I was like, and I go, no. And then my older son's like, no, not unless someone hired him to kill you. And I was like, no, no, no.

And then it's like, and you know, there's a very simple way of being like, don't worry about it. There's no such, you know, you're not gonna be assassinated. But what I think I realized too is being a dad, and this is obviously a more ridiculous situation, but it was like, you gotta talk them through it, because there's something underneath the assassin too. But also there has to be a general, you know,

provide safety. Right, right. It can't just be, don't worry about it. And also you weren't in a safe situation. Right, yeah. They are. Right, yeah. Yeah. But you still have to like, you know, you're not allowed to provide safety. Right, right. It can't just be, don't worry about it. And also, you weren't in a safe situation. Right, yeah. They are. Right, yeah. But you still have to, like, engage in that

within that whole time. Yeah. I think I was, in a way, not allowed to ever process it. And so much so that, like, when we got out of that situation, it's like, and that's done, and we've put that away, and we're not going to talk about it. Like, I look through pictures. There's no pictures of my stepdad. Yeah. I can't find a single picture of him.

No one ever brings him up. It's wild how removed it is. And I think when I was writing the book about this time, you get in this zone where you're like, did this happen this way? Was this the right thing? And you start to question it because it's so clear to me, but no one else...

Were the pictures thrown out? I don't know. I seriously don't know. Like I'm like. You went through your mom's pictures? I mean, I don't even know if my mom keeps, I have my pictures, I have tons of pictures. I have two pictures of them.

I found two pictures, one in the background. And maybe as a kid, I threw them out. I don't know. It's like, I don't know what I did there. Cause that's blocked out on some level. But I, as I'm like, you know, I'm just, this idea of what's in my head. So I was back in Long Island,

and it was sort of the end of writing the book. I'm like, I'm gonna drive by my house. Yeah. And I start driving by my house and going down, and I started to feel this thing, where it's like, I haven't, I've never felt this, you know, and like, and I'm dealing with it. And I, you know, and I'm thinking, oh, I'm over this stuff,

but you start to like, I'm, everything is the same. And that was the weird thing. My area is the same. And if anything, it's shittier than I remember it. Like I remembered a little bit better. And like, I once showed a picture of my house to a friend and they're like, oh, you live in like a trailer park. And I'm like, oh no, I don't know, I'm not in a trailer park.

It was like, it was nice. And I was like, you know, and, and I go down this block that we lived on. Yeah. And there's the house. It's owned by a different person. Yeah.

Slight differences, but the one thing that stuck out to me was like, I talk about this bench. I remember this one bench and it was broken. And I see that bench fucking on the side of my house, still broken, like in a little bit of a trash heap, but that same fucking bench. And this is like, I haven't been back to the house in, I mean, honestly, probably like 30 plus years.

And that fucking bench was there. And it was like, everything, it was like, yes, this is all like, your memory of this is right, this thing. And you start to see all these things. And it's like, oh, yes, the way those doors open, that way that the... And I got freaked out. I know the person wasn't there, you know. My stepfather wasn't in the house.

And then I drove down the block to go to this 7-Eleven, where these dudes tried to fucking steal my bike. These two, these two adult, or three adult men, like, thought I stole their son's bike, and they started, like, chasing me around. Go back to that 7-Eleven, there's that fucking bike stand where I had my bike, and I'm in that. Yeah, go back to that 7-eleven There's a fucking bike stand where I had my bike and I'm in that and they go back in that 7-eleven And I go in there and there's a guy who looks like this guy wearing camo pants knife on his uh Knife on his belt. Yeah a shirt with the italian flag on it and yelling about biden in this 7-eleven

I'm like, oh this is this is what this is my this world has not changed it has been in this little ecosystem that I grew up in. And that was like, you know, it's interesting cause it's your, I tried very hard when I wrote this book to do two things, which is like, it's my stories. I'm not talking, I didn't talk to anybody else. I didn't let anybody read it until it was, my wife is the only one who read it before it went out.

And I really didn't want to, I was respectful of my parents because I can tell if it was you and me privately, I would tell you, I think this about this and I think that about this and here's a little backstory. I'm not telling the backstory of my parents. I was like, cause I was like, I'm just gonna tell the story of me. And that was the way that I think I came to

a satisfying like middle ground. It's my story, their characters in it. I may characterize them in a way that I think I came to a satisfying middle ground. It's my story, their character's in it, I may characterize them in a way that they agree with or they don't, but I'm not trying to tell their, I'm not telling their story. And that actually has given me some solace. And then I gave them the book two weeks ago. And I'm like, cause I didn't want them to read the book

and then ask me to make changes, I wouldn't want to do that. And it was interesting to see their reactions. What were they? Well, my mom- Was there stuff in there like, we didn't know that. No, they knew everything. And that's the thing, but they wouldn't,

but seeing it in black and white, I think is different, right? Sure. And seeing it through my eyes. And it was funny, because my mom's reaction was, I wish you would have said X, Y, and Z. I wish you went deeper. I wish you told this story and that and this.

And I'm like, well, that's not my story to tell. I mean, that's your story. And I think my mom was looking at it a little bit in a way of, like not a, I'm gonna finally tell the truth and I'm gonna burn these people who got me. And I think that that was a thing I was trying to be aware of too.

Like, this is not a burned book. I'm not trying to like, you know, roast anybody. Even Hunter, this guy, who's my stepfather, I'm not trying to roast that guy. I'm trying to be like, I'm just talking about him. He's a character in this thing. And then my dad had an interesting reaction because I gave him the book and he wrote...

As he was leaving my house to go on a plane to go back to New York, I said, here, here's the book. So I knew he was gonna read it on the plane. Plane lands and he sends me a text and he's like, I really love the book and I wanna talk to you about this thing. Yeah. And I go, great. And we have not talked yet, but he sent me a text, which made me laugh, because I was like,

it's still to a certain extent what I'm talking about here. It's like, there wasn't a phone call to be like, hey, I, you know, I'm wanna like, and, but I can also tell he's wrestling with stuff right now because he sends me texts about basketball nonstop. I haven't texted my dad about basketball. Like, I don't know, whatever. But now every day, twice or three times a day,

we're talking about basketball, basketball, basketball. And I'm like, okay, he's trying, he's working through something now too. You know what I mean? And we will sit down and talk. I was like, I just, I said to him, I was like, let me just finish this press tour. I wanna like, I wanna, I wanna to him, I was like, let me just finish this press tour. I want to like, I want to, I want to be done with,

we can, I want to have that conversation. I just can't, I'm already talking about this stuff and it's, it's crazy because you're selling a part of your life in a weird way. And it's like, and I, and, and it's emotional, it's hard. And I've talked to some people and, and it's, there's emotions that everyone kind of brings to it. And I was like, I just, can, can we just give me like two more weeks

and then we'll talk. So we'll see. You'll find out. But I did talk to my dad multiple times and I wonder if in a weird way, putting it in black and white was easier because I think when you talk to somebody and you say like, you hurt me or you weren't there for me,

you get defensive immediately, right? This idea of like, oh no, no, no, hold on, I got it. And it's like, it's just there in print and you have to, you hurt me or you weren't there for me, you get defensive immediately, right? This idea of like, oh no, no, no, by the way, hold on, I got it, and it's like, it's just there in print and you have to just take it. And it's done. Right. Like the thing about it is it's like, whatever their story is or whatever their reaction is,

it's not gonna make it into print. Right, exactly, that's it. And maybe that will be another part of this story, but that's the story that it is now. And it's like, part of this story, but that's the story that it is now. And it's like part of it is in many respects, like I can't, I don't need anything from my parents. Like I love them, I have a great relationship with them, but I don't need, like they're not gonna provide

any more closure for me. I think you have to do that work yourself. I know, that's the lifetime work. And anytime you feel that weird vacuum of insecurity, it's where they drop the ball, and you've got to step in. I've had this vision, I read this book, you know, I've read books, I've done therapy,

I've done a lot of, you know, whatever, some LA stuff, and the image that always comes back to me, and I think about it all the time now, is when we're reacting in a way that is intense or you get into a fight with somebody or you and you're like, oh, why did I get so mad like that? I think of this version of like,

that is the little version of you, like this little, you know, the person and you are kind of standing behind that person. And I always think I have to like, when I'm in that moment, I have to like take that little person and put them behind me and stand in kind of standing behind that person. And I always think I have to, like, when I'm in that moment, I have to like, take that little person and put them behind me and stand in front of me. Like, no, I'm an adult now, I get this.

I know what I'm doing. Yeah, that person, like, if you're still having the emotional reaction of anger as being emotionally 11, it's now coming out of a 50-year-old. Right. And it's chaotic. And it's scary. Yeah.

Sure. Yeah, I don't know. My anger has really kind of diminished. I tend to cry more than yell. Right. Yeah. Which is kind of interesting. I couldn't cry for years. And it was interesting. I used to cry a lot. Then there was this period of time where I just like,

it felt too vulnerable to cry. And now trying to, and again, being a parent, going through certain things, you start to like, it kind of like, it kind of like just kickstarted those emotions in a good way. Because I think there's a thing, and maybe you had this one, I only had like an on-off switch.

It was like anger, not angry. Or almost like passive, fucking angry. I didn't have control of the switch a lot. Neither did I. And now I feel like if anything, I have a dial. Sometimes it's gonna go to 10. And that's it. I'm not saying I'm like, oh, I'm perfect.

But at least I understand that I can go to a two, I can go to a four, I can go to an eight. I can ride a dial, but I didn't have that control. It would just be fucking ferocious and it would come out against people, mentally come out against, I wouldn't even vocalize it, but I'd be fucking mad. And you get this thing, it's like,

I don't wanna be taken advantage of, I don't wanna be lied to, I don't wanna be this. And that kind of shit, that I think has been the interesting thing for me and still wrestling with all of that. Like how do you be, how are you present? How are you active? How are you a person that is true to yourself?

And if part of that truth is anger, that's okay too. It's like, you know, I think when I started dating my wife, it was an experiment for me to do something different because I felt like I was too passive in relationships. I felt like I was like just... So you just the first day you yelled at her? I was like, get the fuck out of here. But you know what it was,

I don't know if you felt like this, you're maybe different than me, you know? But my thing with relationships early on was like, I just don't wanna rock the boat. Maybe that's the thing about coming up in a chaos. It was like, I don't wanna be responsible. I'm actually gonna try to calm everybody, calm it all down.

And so if you wanna go to this place, great. I'll go to that place. It could be any little bit, not even just like a fight. I'm more like that now because I wanna make compromises. But initially I was always threatened by people's emotions in terms of, I always felt like you fucking with me, right? You know, yeah, you're manipulating me. What the fuck does that mean? What are you talking about? I Remember laying in bed with a girl. I was dating for a while and she said I love you and I was like no you don't

Like it was and it wasn't like and it wasn't even like it was just like of course she does it Yeah, there's no way. Yeah, I've used that line. It's not a great line. No, it's terrible. It's a terrible line. But you know, I don't know if I told you this, but this is the moment that opened it up for me, like started me to even be able to talk about it

on your show. I was dating this girl and it was going bad. And we decided, let's go to couples therapy. Which I gotta say, I think when you're dating and you're going to couples therapy, I'm like, what are we trying to do here? Well, I did a joke once where I think that a good second date is couples therapy.

Ha ha ha ha! Get out, maybe get ahead of it. Like, just get ahead of it right away. So, you know, but it's not going well. And it's like, what are we waiting for from this person to, like, fix it? It's like, it's not, it's going south. And it went south. And she left, and the therapist said to me,

she's like, would you want to stay? Yeah. And I was against therapy because when I was younger, we had a therapist, a family therapist. We brought Hunter and everyone was there. And, you know, she told us all, like, if he does this again, I'm gonna call people, we're gonna take care of it. A week passes, he does it again, acts up again.

They tell her, and she's like, okay, one more time. And it's like, fuck therapy, this is bullshit. And... They're not keeping me safe. Yeah, they're not doing anything. But I stayed with this woman, and I thought there stayed with this woman, and I thought there was this therapist,

and I thought, in a way, it's my passivity going, if I stay, then she's gonna actually know that I was the better person in this relationship. Sure, yeah, yeah. I'm willing to do the work. She wasn't willing to do the work. And when we started talking, it started off like that, just me trying to prove to her, just so you know, I was.

Yeah, yeah. And she, in the middle of a session, she, like, from her, like, under her chair, pulls out this, um, yellow wiffle ball bat. And I'm, and I don't know what's going on. And she's like, here. Beat up that couch. I want you to hit that couch.

I want you to, like, scream at that couch. And I'm already doing comedy at this point, and I'm like, no, I'm not gonna fucking hit a couch. I feel stupid, I'm not gonna hit a, you know, I'm like, oh, man, I'm gonna, you know, and, but I'm like, she's like, no, keep on doing it, keep on doing it. And it was this moment.

You got a yes and, Paul. Yeah, I know. But you know, with like these moments, and this is, some of the best things I've done in life have been when I acknowledge if I was to see someone doing this or if I heard this story, I would make fun of this person. And, but I have to also be like, you know what? Just fucking do it.

And I have to like kind of separate the two versions of myself. I did this thing recently and I was like, if I saw this, I would be making it. But the minute I gave over to it, it was worthwhile. Cause I think that's an automatic defensive system that we have as comedians. Like we're just gonna be like, I'm not gonna be vulnerable.

Yeah. And so I'm using that fucking bat and it's not really working cause I'm not committing to it. But she saw something that I never saw myself, which was like, I was holding in anger. Cause I basically went from being a super angry person to I have no anger, I'm shutting it off and that's it. And then occasionally I would like, I was holding in anger. Cause I basically went from being a super angry person to I have no anger, I'm shutting it off and that's it.

And then occasionally I would rage, but it would be like, it would be like, it would almost be like going on a bender. I don't drink anymore, but now I'm like, ah. And she saw that, that thing. And that's what she wanted me to do, like be angry with this fucking bat. And it took a long time for me to start to trust

that I could even be a little bit angry or like even let that out. And that was like the beginning of, I think like, and I wouldn't know it then and I think I look back on it now and go, I think that was the beginning of like the healing process. I was just like, you know. She did good.

She did good. And you talk about the anger in the book. Oh yeah, I talk about the anger because it's like, that was the thing. I talk about. And you talk about the anger in the book. Oh yeah, I talk about the anger because it's like that was the thing. I talk about this idea of like being the Hulk because when I got a little bit older with Hunter, that's my stepfather, I would, I realized I could fight back.

Yeah. And then when you realize you can fight back, I had some power. But then what I also did was open myself up to fucking harder fights. You know, like it was like now, like before it was like, he would, I'd call mercy and it'd be over, right? And now it's like, okay, you're gonna throw that at my head,

I'm gonna fucking throw this at you, and then, and I'm gonna throw you into this wall. Like, and we're both going at it. I remember like just wanting to rip his hair plugs out. I knew he had hair plugs, I was like, you know, and I was just always trying to grab at those. You know, it was violent and it was intense. But what happened was, then if someone did something

like that, so we talked about that on the show, where I felt slighted, I felt at all disregarded, I'd fucking go nuts and fucking pummel kids' face into a fender, you know? And that was this middle ground of going, oh, I don't want to be this man. I'm getting to be this man. I was like, literally, a kid came over to my house

to fight me. It's like, hey, come kick your ass. I'll see you in two hours. And I'm like, all right. And, you know, and like this kid came to my house, and we're walking out to the back, and I just, like I really had this moment where I was like,

the fuck am I doing? I'm like, I'm a senior in high school getting ready to fight behind, in the woods behind my house. And I saw myself as that guy, as this guy, cause Hunter would come home with a fucking arm and a sling and, you know, and and a sling and fighting at this thing. And I realized in that moment, I could deescalate it.

I was like, I just apologized. I'm like, hey man, I'm sorry. And I almost started to cry in saying I'm sorry. And I think he thinks like, oh, this fucking pussy, he's crying. But it was like a release of like, I'm calling mercy again. So then in a weird way, I'm going back to like a child who's like letting somebody win.

And I didn't know how to balance it. And then from that moment on, I was like, I'm shutting it off. I'm not gonna be this person. I'm gonna be a nice guy. I'm not gonna be angry. And that also is not good. I mean, it's not good to be stepped on or passive

or you're just not, you shut off a part of yourself. Yeah, but sometimes it's not good. I mean, it's not good to be stepped on or passive, or you're just not, you shut off a part of yourself. Yeah, but sometimes it's self-protection, you know? And, you know, if you cause enough pain, you know, you at least know you don't want to do that. Right. And so, it's tricky to sort of, you know, process the anger or the sadness or whatever it is. But, you know, really, if you're an angry person,

usually you get to a point where you, like, you've caused pain, and you've got to not do that. Well, and I think, you're right, so it's like, how do you do it? And it's like, and I didn't have the tools to know any other way than just not do it, right? Which is like, which is not healing it, it's just like putting it...

But that's part of it, yeah. I mean, it's a good start. Right, it's something. It's like, I'm, it's a good start. Right, it's something. It's like, I'm putting it in a box, I think, but also, it's making me wonder what I've done with mine, because the other night I had a conversation with my opener about somebody who I had strong opinions about, that were deep, they weren't just sort of,

I don't like that person's work. You know, I felt, you know, that this person was a toxic, fucked up person, and my tone changed to the point where the person I was talking to was like, whoa, wow. Yeah. And I'm like, yeah.

And I tried, I said, I wanna talk about that person. She's like, why? And then I'm like, I just... And then it just came up and it was like, wow, that guy's still in there. Yeah, well, I mean, and look, sometimes it comes out on stage. I mean, I've had those moments too. Like I well, I mean, and look. Sometimes he comes out on stage.

I mean, like, I've had those moments too. Like, I can, I've done scenes where I'm like, I can tap in, like, tap into that because it's there. You know, it's like, but it used to feel like it was right under the surface. Now I'm like, I have that thing. But yeah, it comes up, and that's what I'm saying. Like, I'm not saying it's gone.

It's, but it's, I understand levels to it. Sure, yeah, but, and also, you know, where it's coming from and you don't have to you don't have to react as the kid Do you have trouble apologizing? No, not really. I I couldn't apologize for I won't depends Okay, cuz like for me it was like if I apologized I'm saying you're right I hurt you and I again that's like a but for me like being this thing of like I'm I'm saying, you're right, I hurt you. And again, that's like, for me, like being this thing of like, I'm, now I have no problem apologizing,

but for a long time I didn't wanna apologize, because if I apologize, I'm admitting that I fucked up. And I've hurt you and I've upset the balance and I didn't wanna, I never mean to do that. I didn't wanna hurt you. I didn't want, you know, it's like, it's like you aid me or this, you know, it's like, it's a weird thing.

I think when you're sober and you do a little bit of work, you can kind of apologize in a way that it's really just taking responsibility. Right. For what may or may not have happened. It could just be in your fucking head. Right. A lot of times you apologize to people who are like,

I didn't know what you're talking about. And I also think what I learned with apologies too is like, who cares? There's no right or wrong. Like if you say, hey man, you fucking hurt my feelings. I can't tell you, no, you're wrong. If your feelings are hurt, even if you misinterpreted what I said,

but it was like, I felt so, I felt like that was also painting me as a bad person. Like if I hurt your feelings, I made a mistake. Avoiding that. Yeah, and I know, so there's all these little things and so I feel like I'm very apologetic with my kids. You know, I make mistakes with my kids all the time but I'm gonna sit there and be like,

hey, I'm so sorry I did that to you. I didn't mean to do that to you and that's wrong. And I think it's like we start to have this more open dialogue. No, it's important, you know, like I had a thing with a guy who I was friends with and he just shut me out. And, you know, he had this idea about something and he just wouldn't talk to me.

And it was driving me nuts. I'm like, you know, at least just give me the opportunity to take responsibility for something or at least know what the hell you're thinking about. Yeah. And then like it just got, you know, we ended up at the same what the hell you're thinking about. And then like it just got, we ended up at the same party and he's like, you wanna know? And then he laid it out and I'm like, well first of all,

that thing you're thinking happened, that didn't happen. It was not a real thing. But if you still feel the way you feel, I get it and I appreciate you telling me that and I'm sorry. And I got emotional, I was tearing up and shit because we were friends and it was just sort of like, it's also that moment in contrition or knowing what's going on where you realize

you have no control over other people and you just have to, you know, take the hit. Yeah, and it's, you know, it's better, actually you release stuff more by just, yeah, taking the hit, like taking release stuff more by just, yeah, taking the hit, being there, having that conversation, because I also think so much of this shit happens

in darkness, right? Like you don't, it's like, oh yeah. Your brain. Yeah, A, they're not thinking it, it didn't happen, or it did happen, and you're not gonna talk to that person directly, and then it becomes this weird thing where it just starts to metastasize. And then you're like, and then it's like,

I don't talk to that person, fuck that person. It's like, because it's a, you've built a inner relationship of fighting. And it's, I try to catch myself in it and you know, and then look, and there will always be a person, a thing, yeah, right? Or these things that just kinda sneak up and get you. But you know, it's like,

but I think it's like a lifelong process. Sure. And it's also like contrary action and you know, not hitting send and all that shit. Yeah, well that, yeah, pause. My wife walks away a lot and it's for her mental health to be like, I need to stop this.

And I have a hard time because I think that that- That's the worst. It's like, what are you talking about? Right, it's like, I want to continue. And it's like, and in the light of day, like after like an hour, oh yeah, just look, yeah, let's call, why was I intent on finishing it? Right, like it's like, but it is this thing of like,

I want to win or I want to, you know, and it's like, and that's the, like it's like, but it is this thing of like, I wanna win or I wanna, you know, and it's like, and that's the, and it's like, and I still, I will fall into that trap and I will, you know, make that mistake and I'm not infallible in that at all. But I also think too, it's like, I had my friend, he was like, why, why, why you go to therapy? And I'm like, what do you mean? He's like, you go to therapy, you're not gonna be funny.

And I'm like, no, that's not, I don't think how it works in a weird way. I think when you do work on yourself, you actually are more well-rounded, you understand yourself, so you can actually bring more of yourself. I mean, I think about that monologue that you did in sort of trust.

And I'm like, it's a beautiful, you can't take your eyes off it, but that's also informed by, I think, your life, right? It's like, it's something that is, that you can't take your eyes off it. But that's also informed by, I think, your life, right? It's something that is, that you can touch, but if you didn't go to certain places or do certain things, I don't know if you could have done that and that justice in that same way, I don't know.

No, no, totally. It was like, it was, it wasn't my life, but it was parts of it. And I knew the life I was talking about. And I'd seen enough of that life and experienced enough with what I was talking about in terms of my own dreams or whatever. Yeah, that was an interesting thing, that monologue. I think that those are the moments

that we all get into and we connect with, and it's way more interesting. On a certain level, for people who don't know this, and this is now going to be out, and this is now gonna be part of, I don't own this anymore, right? It's like, it is now, I've released it. And it's like, and people say, oh, is it cathartic?

I'm like, it's not cathartic because I've made peace with it. And it's like, and people say, oh, is it cathartic? I'm like, it's not cathartic because I've made peace with it. Now it's in a book, but now everybody will know it. But it is interesting now, like, it's like, I'm sharing this thing that now people will have, or whoever reads it will have this thing, you know, that will have this knowledge about me, you know? And that's, and that's like a little bit scary,

but at the same time, it's the stuff that I know I respond to. And it could be anything. It could be that monologue. Okay, go ahead. But yeah, but the thing about it is like, you mixed it up, you mix it up well. So we're talking seriously about anger

and you talk about the stepfather, you talk about ADHD, and you talk about struggles in relationship. But there's like that thing that happened to you in Times Square, the exact same thing happened to me. Oh my gosh, I love that. That's hilarious. That like, I used to go to my grandmother's,

take the bus in from Jersey to Port Authority when I was like 13. You know, and just like, can we drink? I remember going in there when I was in high school, I brought my buddy in, we've got platform shoes, we're just gonna go have a beer Yeah Where and it was so ridiculous because we just end up at like hamburger Harry's or whatever the fucking place was

You know and they served us like we did it and then he ended up and then some guy came up to us and tried To scam us in Times Square like I'll show it was about guitars. You want you want by guitar I'll say we're looking at guitar shops when we walk we guy for a while. We were like, we gotta go. Yeah, this is it. Like, these are the moments. And yeah, and that's true. Like, yeah, like that moment of being in 42nd Street and thinking you're an adult, and then also realizing,

like, when you look back, like, oh, we were kids. Like, we weren't fooling anyone. I actually found my fake ID from that day that I had. And I was like looking at it, I was like, oh, there's no one thought we were 21. This is hilarious. And then going into the sex club, that was great. And also the thing about that first time you saw UCB,

I mean, there's a lot of, like, it's not all heavy. No, no, no, the book is like, and that's the intention. That's the joyful recollections of trauma. We are talking about the heavier stuff. It's like, it is, to me, what I wanted to do is tell an entertaining book. That's the number one thing. It's like, it is to me, what I wanted to do is tell an entertaining book. That's the number one thing.

It's like a tightrope walk on a tightrope. I'm gonna tell something real, I'm not gonna undercut that thing, but it's also gonna be fun to read. Like I said, it's not therapy, it's fun. This is like a book that has insane fun stories and it has a connective tissue to it, but it's not like, it's not a bummer.

It's not like Angela's ashes. No, no, it's great. You did a great job, buddy. You're lovely to say it, and I appreciate you having me back on. But I did, it was interesting in going back to just think about this was like a, you and this show, 14 years ago,

was a pivotal moment in just starting to talk about it in a way that was like, oh, I can talk about this. I have a life. I have a life. I can talk about it. I'm glad I helped out. And then we started podcasts pretty soon after. And now we've been in this game. We were some of the original modern podcasters.

I always say that. You know, when you are the OG, and like, I know, we've been doing, how did this get made for 14 years? Dude, it's fucking nuts. It's nuts. And I love it. And I mean, how do you feel? 800 episodes in.

I was episode 127. This is what, 850 now? You're like, no, no. We're like 1600. Six, wait. We do two a week. 1600. Oh my god.

That's crazy. That's amazing. Oh my god. You know what? The one thing we couldn't have imagined, and certain weren't we. 1600. I don't know that we were really gun we couldn't have imagined and certain weren't we... 1600.

I don't know that we were really gunning for it, but it worked out, buddy. Yeah. No, I mean, it's a... And that's the thing. People are like, well, how do I get into podcasts? I'm like, when I started this thing, there was no... You had to tell people what a podcast was. Yeah.

And there was no real way to make money. Yeah. And the first seven years, we didn't make money. Sure. Yeah. And it was just crazy. And the world grew around us. and now we've made a monster. And it's hilarious to watch people.

Are you still all audio or you do video? Audio, and I appreciate it. I appreciate it, but I'm like, I love it. Because I think it's also more personal. It's better. I like it. I like it. My ear, it's like you find the people you want to listen to.

And it's great. You can do other things. Yeah. Yeah, no, well, that's good, man. No, I love it, I like it in my ear. It's like you find the people you wanna listen to. It's like, and it's, it was great. Yeah, you can do other things. Yeah. Yeah, no, well, that's good, man. No, I love it. And I love that you're having some people back on. Joe Mandy was great to have back on. It was so fun.

But yeah, it's been like, I mean, it's wild. And, you know, I think about you all the time because you were the, you had Obama in your garage. Yeah, 2016. And now all of a sudden, Biden's on fucking Howard Stern and all this other stuff. It's like, it's wild, but those things like that, I do believe is the reason why Biden goes on Stern.

Of course. Why they- It was because we were there, and there were podcasters before me and you, and there were people around, but it was still not normalized in any way. Most older people and most people in general was not part of their regular listening.

They didn't know how to get it. And then this thing built up around us, and now you look around and I'm not resentful. I'm grateful that it worked out for me, but there is part of me that's sort of like, I'm kind of responsible for something. You're in the, you have to be in that podcast Hall of Fame. You gotta be in that Mount Rushmore, the thing.

We are. You know, you're like, look, just by the fact of doing it more than a decade, I think, like, anyone who can do that, because it's like, during the pandemic, everyone has started a podcast. And it's like, I said to people, when people ask me like, what do you do? I'm like, well, I just say like this,

just do something that you want to do more of, because truly in success, the only thing that's gonna happen is more. Do more podcasts. I was like, that's it. They come and go, I can't, if there was some, if digital garbage was visible, it would be its own planet.

I know, it's like, it's so, but I don't know what people expect, like, I did seven episodes and I'm not Joe Rogan, so fuck it. And now it's impossible to break in. Oh yeah. And even the things that you think are breaking through are not.

No. Because people put money in them now. Well, and the other thing too is like, you have to then tell everybody, hey, slot out one of those things that you listen to. Like, all right, I listen to two Marins a week, I listen to this. That's right, yeah, how much time do people have?

It's like, which one am I gonna knock out? And if you put in this much time, it's like, well, I wanna spend time with my friends, that my ear friends, you know, and that's it. It's hard to find a slot on the mantle. Everybody's fighting for the same heads. And people only have a certain amount of time. But we're doing all right.

Yeah, we do it. All right, thanks. I love it, so have a certain amount of time. Yeah. But we're doing all right. Yeah, we do it. All right. I love it. Thanks. So far. Good talking to you. You too.

Well, that's it. I'm glad he's doing better and still very much a great guy. I like Paul and I thought that was a good talk. His book, Joyful Recollections of Trauma is available now. His podcasts are available wherever you get podcasts. That was a good talk his book joyful recollections of trauma is available now his podcasts Are available wherever you get? podcasts those would be How did this get made and unspooled?

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I get the thing where people assume that I am Andre from the league sometimes. Yeah. So they'll come up and they'll yell. They'll yell things that are sometimes inappropriate. Like there's a joke on the show where my character was like, there was a porn based on my character called like Andre no dick or something like that.

And people come up like that, hey, no, Dr. No Dick. But I'm also with my kids and I'm like, oh, that's weird. You know, I'm like, the kids are like, what's a dick? Yeah, you know, I'm like, okay, well. That's up tomorrow for Full Merin subscribers. You can get bonus episodes twice a week plus every episode of WTF ad free. Just go to the link in the episode description to sign up

or go to WTFpod.com and click on WTF plus. And a reminder before we go, this podcast is hosted by Acast. Here's some guitar I just did. ["WTF Plus"] So So So So I'm gonna be a man. So Boomer lives, Monkey and La Fonda, cat angels everywhere.