WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1559 - Clare O'Kane

Episode Date: July 25, 2024

When two comics are on tour together, one of the best places to get to know each other is in a car while driving between gigs. Clare O’Kane and Marc didn’t have much history together before Clare started opening for Marc, so they recorded their drive from Cleveland to Detroit and talked about their shared experiences with depression, shaving their heads, ailing parents, dreaming of being an artist, and growing into themselves, as well as Clare’s time writing for SpongeBob and SNL. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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There's more to imagine when you listen. Sign up for a free 30 day audible trial and your first audio book is free. Visit audible.ca. All right, let's do this. How are you? What the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fuck? Nicks? What's happening? I'm mark Maron. This is my podcast Welcome to it. How's everybody doing? Oh my god. I I'm okay. I just got back up here to Vancouver. I'm just kind of regrouping up here I'm just kind of resettling in I really needed to be home for a few days

and then you know back up here for a bit and then back down there but it just it was good to be home. I did a lot of stuff. I interviewed some people. I saw a movie or two. What did I end up watching? Oh we went out and saw Maxine. Now I haven't seen the other two, not necessarily my kind of movie, but if I'm going to watch a horror movie, I much rather watch one about devil shit. I like good devil shit. Like I watched that movie, long legs. That was devil shit too, but not great devil shit because there was a mystical component. This one, Maxine, not only does it capture

the 80s Hollywood, the Hollywood mid 80s, kind of perfectly, but all the devil shit is just human. I like human devil shit. So, you know, because who hasn't met the devil? Am I right? But it's pretty, you know, it's not, I wouldn't say I'm a horror fan, and this one had some fairly significant gore to it.

And one of the gory scenes that was very near the opening of the film was particularly devastating. I think if you're a dude, probably a little more so. And that's all I'm going to say. And I'm going to say Buster Keaton was involved. That's, that's all I'm going to say. And I'm going to say Buster Keaton was involved. That's all I'm going to say. But I would recommend that movie. I wouldn't recommend it if you can't tolerate horror and gore. But if you want to look at 80s Hollywood

and get a real sense of what that was like, I think it does a good job with that. I don't know why I'm coming out of the gate with a movie review. I don't know why. It's just what's gate with a movie review, I don't know why. It's just what's happening. Yeah, I watched, what else did I watch? I watched The Firm again, I'm on sort of a Sydney Pollock

kick and Brendan and I talk about that a bit on the bonus stuff this week. We did a full on Brendan and Mark movie jam. We covered a lot, I've been watching a lot of movies. I guess that's what you do when you want to get your mind off things, but now all of a sudden, my mind is kind of excited about things. Yeah, a little bit, and I'm not ashamed to say so. Today on the show, I talked to Claire O'Kane.

Claire O'Kane is a comedian. Claire O'Kane opened for me for several dates through the Midwest. We had nice time, nice chats. I was able. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay.

Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay.

Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay.

Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay.

Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay.

Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay, I don't do them too often. I think the last one I did was also for bonus material after the Jude Law conversation with Brendan in the car, but this is a full-on car conversation with Claire O'Kane and it was good.

Her recent album, if that interests you, which is out now, is called Everything I Know How to Do, which I believe is kind of literally everything she knows how to do. So anyways, why am I chipper? Well, I don't know, I'm just sitting with this whole idea, with this whole reality, this new reality that a week or two ago, I was talking about

sort of at least part of my brain was trying to resign itself or not surrender necessarily, but would, you know, entertain the possibilities. So unprepared mentally to sort of adapt to an American authoritarianism that seemed inevitable. Now look, it may still be inevitable, but now what's happened with Biden dropping out, and look, I don't talk about politics that often anymore because I, you know where I stand, I'm not, I just don't, there's no reason to do it, but there is kind of a reason now.

You know how I feel about things. There is kind of a reason now. There is something very exciting happening. Now look, I don't know if Kamala Harris can win the presidency, but I do know when I remember properly that I was on board with her candidacy in 2016. I was ready to go. I like her. And this, I just can't get over the fact that this moment that what is happening now is

that now that Biden's out and look, I was never like a Biden guy. I was a, let's try to keep the country out of the hands of fucking insanity and fascists and making the majority of people either frightened or miserable. You know, there is a tremendous amount at stake here in terms of what we understand freedom to be freedom to be, you know, who you want to be in the world that we live in, in the country that we live in. I was, it's not, I wasn't about Biden. It just, you couldn't, it was hard to get behind him other than like, well, you know,

if that's what we got, you know, and I think he did a fine job, but I'm one of these people that like, I'd rather not see the president too often. I just like to see things operate properly. And I'd like to try to find the information that is the most relative to the truth about what the situation is. There are issues out there that can be spoken about clearly. There is a democratic platform and agenda that can be spoken about clearly. The real issues.

I know you got a lot of lefties, a lot of progressives running around talking about fascism, fascism, this fascism, that that's all fine. And you can have a president who was struggling his way into just saying like, you know, it's a democracy is at stake. Sure. But why, what are the issues? Yo, could somebody spell it out for me? What do we represent here?

Now, obviously there's going gonna be a lot of progressives that are gonna immediately snap back at Harris presidency. Fine, do what you want, seriously. Stand up for what you need to stand up for. Again, I'm excited about a person that can speak to the issues, that can explain the issues, that can stand up to Trump in terms of what the bullshit he's putting out there

and again i'm not saying that i'm hopeful i'm just saying that this is exciting that's that's all that's i'm i'm excited to see how this unfolds because it's fucking crazy i'll be in tucson arizona at the rialto Theatre on Friday, September 20th, then I'm in Phoenix at the Orpheum Theatre on Saturday, September 21st. My Oklahoma and Texas dates needed to be rescheduled. Oklahoma City at the Tower Theatre, that was on October 3rd, that's been moved to March 6th, 2025. I hope you can make it.

Dallas at the Majestic Theatre, that's moving from October 4th to March 7th. Houston at the White Oak Music Hall, that was October 5th, now March 8th. And San Antonio at the Empire Theater, that was October 6th, now March 9th. I apologize. You can go to wtfpod.com slash tour for tickets and all the latest updates to the tour.

It's just the life I'm living right now and it's what I got to do. But you know, I'm going to be shooting another special at some point next year for HBO, so I will be doing the work. I guess no matter who's president. Obviously, my tone will be different depending on that outcome. But it's just the way it is. And you know, I'm going to try to do some comedy up here in the next week or so. And you know, it's like, I don't even wanna hear it, I don't even wanna like hear this sort of like,

I don't know, can a woman, just shut the fuck up. I don't know, can a woman actually win the president? Shut up, shut up. This is a perfect time. She represents most of this country. I mean, you get all brain fucked by the minority and their calculations and their way of taking over state governments and switching voting rule.

I mean, you get caught up in that because it's some form of brain fucking and bullying and dubious agenda. Obviously, that's being diplomatic, but they are the fucking minority. Look, if it's, if American politics has digressed into wrestling, I'm excited about this new match. We got a pretty good heel and a pretty good face in the ring, and you know, let's see what happens. All right, look, it's strange when you travel, when you're getting ready to travel.

I don't know whether it's a mental thing or whether things actually start to kind of get crazy. You know, on the day that I traveled, I had an interview to do, I'd gone early, I got up early to go to the gym, I had some work around the house to do, and then all of a sudden, like hours before I have to get a car, two things happen.

One, this carbon dioxide alarm that I have that one of those things you plug into the wall is going off. I don't know what that is. I figure it needed a battery. I look at it, doesn't need a battery. And so I'm like, what the fuck is happening? And then like shortly after that, I'm in my house

and I've been there for four days and it didn't, it wasn't registering but I smelled a hint, a hint of dead rodent. I smelled a hint of it. And I'm very sensitive to that smell. And I'm like fuck, I've not been down the crawl space in a while. I've not been down in my pseudo basement in a while.

I've had a rat or two in there in the past. What's going on down there? And I haven't really been down there in a month or two. And I gotta tell you, man, I went down there and I don't even like talking about this because it was fucking brutal and fucked up. Not brutal, I mean look, it's relative, but there was more rat shit down there

than I've ever seen in my life. It looked like a rat had lived down there for centuries and picked these two or three places to shit, and I was like, what the fuck is happening? How many are down here? Kit had seen one down in the yard a couple weeks ago. One rat in the yard, and I'm like, well that's living in the house. So I finally kind of get down there because of weeks ago, one rat in the yard. I'm like, well, that's living in the house.

So I finally kind of get down there because of the smell. And maybe I was in a certain amount of denial and I could not believe it. And I smelled the smell and I'm like, what is that just the rat shit? How many rats does it take to make this much shit? And you know, I got to get a car in a couple of hours and I'm rooting around down there and I find a dead rat. And then I got to deal with that jarring horror show after I see Maxine for some

reason, which was heinous, but a real dead rat. I'm actually, I don't know if it's terrified. It's just fucking gross. Rats are kind of gross when they're dead. They're okay when they're alive. They're not great when they live in your house. But look, I'm sensitive to animals pain. And this one was dead and it was sad, but it was also fucking disgusting. So now I got to go up. I got to get gloves. I got to get shovel. I got it like, I'm just sort of like what even went in. I don't know what killed it. Yeah. I don't know if it died

from natural causes. I have no poison down. That'll put out poison. I put out those fucking horrendous snap traps, but they seem to do the job quickly. But this one was just dead. And it wasn't dead that long, but it already started to rot. So I'm like, I gotta get a shovel. I gotta put gloves on. And then it's like, what are you doing, dude?

So I'm trying to get it with a shovel, which is only grosser because it's rotting. And oh, fuck. And then I I like I just put a plastic glove on just pick the fucking thing up by the tail and threw it in a garbage bag and then I just like dumped a bunch of baking soda over the rotten slime that had been emitting from it and then I quickly just vacuumed up as much ratchet as I could and I set two of those fucking peanut butter traps down there. I don't know what's gonna happen.

But that was my morning and obviously I've got someone staying at the house but like you know I'm not, I can't ask them to like go deal with the, go down and check the rat traps. So when I get back in a bit, that'll be a nice welcome home. If you're looking for a way to stay on top of your weight management goals, I've got a suggestion for you. Noom. You can use the Noom app to stick with a plan that works best for you. For me,

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Shy I put a trigger warning about the rap business. Oh God Just too much. And but here's a bright note. Kids got a brand new doggy. I got a doggy. The cats met the doggy. We got a doggy now. There's a doggy around. It's a little miniature bull terrier. B. What a fucking great dog. Who doesn't like a Bull Terrier? They're the coolest looking fucking dogs in the world.

So that dog came over to meet the cats, freaked them out, obviously. I don't know how that's all gonna go. But, but, but yeah. Now there's a dog in my life, I guess you would say. You know, doesn't live with me, but I have access to a doggy. Yeah.

And now I'd like to, to once again say that Claire O'Kane has a record out. It's called Claire O'Kane, Everything I Know How to Do. You can get that on all streaming platforms. And this is me in the car with Claire O'Kane. Hey folks, I don't know if you know about this house that I live in now, but one of the reasons I bought it was that the garage had been converted into a room. There was a bathroom put in, there was drywall put on the other side of the door, and basically it was no longer a garage, it was a room.

And I thought, oh well this is amazing, I'll do my podcast in here and honestly aside from using it as a place to do the podcast this is now a perfect space to host on Airbnb. Now do a little thought experiment for yourself think about where you live got extra bedrooms a guest house maybe your old house is just very comfortable even when you're not home. While you're away your home could be on Airbnb. It's easy to do and it's a great way to earn some extra cash. Maybe you can cover the cost of your summer vacation or fix that other part of the house that you've been putting off. There's extra money just sitting there. All you got to do is Airbnb it.

Don't take my word for it. Check it out. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at airbnb.ca. It's too rainy. It's um yeah yeah there's a lot of obstacles to success here. For this big idea of- It's scary! Of recording on the road. Because my habit is to check levels. Oh my god.

It's really raining. It's too rainy. It's too rainy to record you think? Yeah. I'm getting distracted. I'm getting nervous. So yeah, 65 degrees in the hotel rooms. Right.

And I have, I'm kind of a 73 degrees guy. That's like my comfort zone. Right. And it's pretty solid. It's consistent. Like, I know that 73 is where I live. 74 feels too hot. 72, a little chilly.

73, right on the fucking money. You have an eco-friendly body temperature. Do you have that though? Do you know what you need? Yeah, I need 72 to 73. Oh, good. But sometimes I like to be colder because it helps you sleep better.

Really? Yeah. I didn't know that was true. It doesn't make you wake up chilled? I actually don't, I don't know the science behind it. But it is. That was what this whole podcast is going to be about. For my personal experience. I don't know, it feels good because then you get cozy. I think I'm a sweater too.

I sweat in the night. Oh, you sweat and you drool. Is that something you share publicly? Yeah. I'm just kind of wet all around in the evening. What was that Tom Papa joke about pillows when you take them out of the pillowcase, all those stains and you're like, is my head leaking motor oil?

Ugh. What causes that? My dad used to drink caffeine-free diet coke all day, every day. Yeah. He would drool too. It must be genetic. What, during the day or?

No, at night. Yeah. And when he slept and then his pillows, his pillowcases would look like they were dragged through mud. It was really gross. I wonder if drooling is genetic. I don't know. I don't drool, but I do know that I'm a mouth breather and there's nothing I can do about that.

I find myself with my mouth hanging open sometimes and I don't know why. When when I'm acting, I have to be very aware of it. If I'm in the, you know, like not, you know, fully if I'm not talking in the scene. Not just to be a guy sitting there with his fucking mouth open. You're making a choice. Well, yeah, a choice to, you know, to yeah, that's me not being me. How is this character different?

Well, this one doesn't breathe through his mouth, which was more of a challenge than you could imagine. This golf guy, that should be his thing is that his mouth is always open. Yeah, well, I'll have them write that in to remind me. So okay, so now we're leaving Cleveland and I think we've had generally a good experience. Sometimes when you get off stage, I don't know how you feel exactly. How I feel?

Yeah, as I walk by you, when we change, when we're handing off the baton. Why? You're kind off the baton. Well, I, you're kind of hard to read. Well, I think that's because I don't know how you're coming at me with a lot of like, I'm going to go energy with an with an expression of like, yeah, that I can't read. It's usually like how, how, how well, I'm just a, you know, I can usually tell in that moment with openers, like how, how, how, well, I'm just, you know, I can usually tell in that moment with openers, like, you know, how they felt.

Cause I mean, in my experience of what you're doing, I can tell whether it's going well and you've been doing well, but that doesn't mean you're going to think that. No, and I almost never do, but I think I would do well enough with your crowd, but I'm really conscious of how dirty I am. What do you mean, like how, like, Oh, you mean like- How I can crass and- Right, but it's not-

Poop, poop forward. But it's, but it's not, you're not thinking like, maybe I should not do that. You're like, Oh, this, they didn't embrace my filth. Yeah. Enough for me to feel comfortable doing it. And I'm pretty accepting of that. Yeah. But last night night when I came off stage

and then you went on stage and you were like, oh, it's gonna be an awkward ride. That was a joke. I know, but I was like, well, what is he talking about? Cause I thought I did okay. I think there were parts that were quiet for a long time, but they were supposed to be quiet. No, no, my joke was really about how like,

I just was acknowledging like that was a lot and it is a lot Yeah, it is and then like and I say, you know, we spent a lot of time in the car And I just said it's not always like that That was the joke. I wasn't taking a shot at you. I know but there's still this like pressure Yeah, cuz I still don't know you very well. And it's just a- You don't? Well, I think I do. Yeah. Because I've been listening to you for 15 years or whatever.

No, but I mean we've been in the car for hours. I mean what are you missing? Yeah, that's true. What parts are you missing? I mean- No, I think I've got the gist. But just in relation to like what you think of what I'm doing, I can't really tell. Oh, that's interesting.

Honestly, what do I think? Yeah, I mean you don't have to tell me, but... No, no, I know what you're doing because like there have been periods in my life where I've sort of done it, like in Smart Dirty is great. Thanks. And the only, and I love it, and I'm sort of trying to, in my own way, return to it. Yeah. I love it and I'm sort of trying to, in my own way, return to it because at some point I decided like, aren't you a little old to be doing that?

But no, it's timeless, isn't it, smart filth? I think it's timeless and I think people think it's juvenile. Do they though, the way you do it? I don't think so. Well, I think initially, I mean, I've had like, family members be like, why do you have to be dirty? Oh my God. Like you could be talking about other things

that are just as funny. And I go, well, I don't know how I think. Yeah. And I'm constantly thinking about the grossest shit ever. But you think it's, you think it's gross. I think that there's no, I don't think it's gross, but you know, if somebody else thinks it's gross. But I think like, you know, I've been seeing a lot of work from, you know, female comedians

that's very pussy forward. Comedians. Comedians. I should usually just say comics. I like that. Don't you think it's funny when people are like, women just talk about their pussies in their periods and it's like... I never heard of pussies.

I used to be women just talking periods. You used to be periods. Yeah. Now it's pussies. Right, but that was not always a thing and I like it. I like it too and I think it's important to talk about. Yeah. Because we're kind of, you know,

we've been taught to feel shame about our pussies. What they do, what they look like, what they smell like. Yeah. If we use them enough, if we don't use them, what we use them for. Yeah, I mean, I think that I have a theory on it, but I don't know if it's really true. Because the amount, like there was a period in time there

where because of Sarah Silverman, there was sort of a cute way to talk about crass femininity. Right. And that was sort of like, that infected a lot of comics for a while. Right. But now I think what's happened is the whole domain of crass sexuality is more female than male in

the stand-up world because I think men have gotten a little more nervous about talking about it for some reason or another. Yeah, totally. You think so? Yeah. But so I think it's your time. I think it's your time to push the envelope. Better be. Well you're doing pretty good. There's a lot of, there's a lot of bush involved. Well, there's a lot of bush in life, but I think. But I love it. Cause like I saw Steph Toll of, you know, she opens her show airing out her pussy.

She's literally got aired out. Yeah. That's good. I think it's good. I think we're headed in the right direction. Oh, totally. As long as women are being taken seriously as adults and we don't have to

Become infantile to not yeah people out, you know, yeah then You know what? So the way to be so I watched that movie that you you're in I'm in dad and stepdad What's where's that gonna show up? What's gonna happen with that movie? We've already done a run of, played in a bunch of Alamo draft houses. How'd it go over? Around the country. Really good, people like it. It's a weird movie. It's weird. But it's not weird in the way we're like, what's going on here? It's weird in the kind of stilted dynamics between everybody and the fact that like a guy who's probably in his 30s yeah he's 30 he's playing a 13 year old but he's pretty good at it I think he's good at

it and also like I don't know what that decision was about by the directors well it was based on some shorts they had made where he was the where he plays the little boy he was a 13 year old boy. And they just decided to keep it that way. And you're just, you know, you just suspend your disbelief and believe the world. Yeah. But also like, there was something kind of like, you know, almost Todd Solon's like,

about casting against age. Right. Like, you know that he's just, you know it's not a practical decision they could have got a kid. They could have got a kid but honestly it's a there was so little money in it that it's like. Yeah and then you got to deal with a kid. You got to deal with a kid. His mom and making sure he eats and gets the breaks he has to have contractually so you're not doing child abuse. Yeah exactly

and we none of us know how to deal with any of that. Was that improvised, that movie? It was all improvised. Oh, it is? Yeah. Okay, well that, that, that tells, that informed something. Yeah. Because those two guys were good.

Yeah. And, and it didn't matter after a certain point that neither one of them were actually behaving like fathers. Right. And it becomes sort of this kind of heightened experiment in male brittleness. Yeah, totally. And I think it's funny that the kid is played by an adult and he's just kind of the most centered one. Right.

Of the bunch. And then you come in, you're pretty centered. Yeah. You bring the maternal energy in kind of a punk rock way. My backstory for myself was that I'm kind of one of those women who, kooky women who works at Trader Joe's and then sometimes helps her friend sell candles

at the farmer's market, which gives extra time and you know tattoos yeah the haircut oh I just had that I know it's a that's a it's a fairly classic drastic haircut yeah the the just post shaved head yeah bring something to the mother character it does you don't see a lot of mothers with the shaved head. You don't and it's rooted in my own mental illness probably. Is it? I just don't like having hair. I think it's just one more thing I can sort of obsess over. Do you, you're comfortable with the shaved head? Yeah, I'm more comfortable than with hair. I used to, I one time, the one time I shaved my head,

my sense of self could not handle it. Isn't it crazy? You kind of have to like, do you feel different as a person? I felt like I could handle it now, but it was a time when I was in New York, I was a little like kind of floaty and nebulous in terms of What I was supposed to be or who I am and I remember I just went to one of those buzz cut places

And I was like let's do it and he shaved it fucking down You know like down like skinhead shave and then I bought a skateboard And I didn't and I didn't know how to skateboard and I was in my 30s and I'd go down to St. Mark or town to Tompkins Square Park and watch these kids skateboard and I just sit on my skateboard with my shaved head and then it was it was a complete spiral and I went on stage right after I got the haircut and I came unhinged. Like I was like, I couldn't get past the fact that they were looking at my shaved head, I didn't know why I did it,

and I literally had a kind of identity breakdown. What was going on? With me? Yeah, what prompted that? I don't really know. I think it was one of those things where it's like, I can be one of these guys and I couldn't really know. I think it was one of those things where it's like, I can be one of these guys and I couldn't. No, I would across the street.

I wasn't scary. It was just kind of like weird and too vulnerable and I projected a lot. You know, most of the time people don't think anything. They're not sitting there going like, why'd this guy shave his head? No. They're just like, okay, this guy's going to do a thing now.

And I'm like, you can see through the decision I made. I don't know who I am. Yeah. Initially, whenever I shave my head, I get that feeling. It's like I instantly feel people looking at me in a different way. And then I'm like, well, what does that mean about me and who I am in the world now?

And do I have to start? Do I have to get new shoes? Right, yeah. Is this a whole, yeah, do I have to make an agenda, a whole lifestyle adjustment? Yeah. So, we've, when we travel together, we generally, we see art, we talk about art, we talk about music in a fairly, you know, like deep way in terms of our knowledge of you know things art related and that's not a common thing in comedy really. You know what I think? What? I was just thinking this I think we take in art in the same way. Well it has to have

something to do with how we came into it because there's not there's not a lot of people you can talk about that and I imagine even in your peer group of comics that you're not you know engaging that part of your brain No Because it's in you and you know, I don't know like I don't know like you grew up where I'm from San Jose, California So Santa has San Jose is like it's not defined by anything good. It's not defined by anything That's right. You're what is it? What is San Jose? It's not defined by anything good. It's not defined by anything. That's right. You're what is it? What is San Jose? It's Silicon Valley. It's isn't it Silicon Valley adjacent though. No, it's it's Silicon Valley proper

It's where eBay started. It's you know, I'm really Jason apples and Cupertino, which is you know, 10 It's weird. Maybe I my memories of San Jose from doing comedy in the Bay Area It's weird, maybe my memories of San Jose from doing comedy in the Bay Area, it was just sort of like malls and nondescript people in my mind. Yeah. But I don't remember it as being wealthy or it was pre-Silicon Valley. Well, it was pre-Silicon Valley. It's totally different now. It's one of the most expensive places to live, I think, in the country.

So you were growing up in that? I was growing up in the beginning of that. Okay. I was born the country. So you were growing up in that? I was growing up in the beginning of that. Okay. I was born in 1990. And you're, how many siblings? I'm an only child. Oh my God. Can you tell?

I don't, yeah, maybe. No. I make a lot of false assumptions about only children. Everybody does. Yeah, I always think like, you know, first of all, that the one assumption that I'm always told is incorrect. We're getting a ticket from the toll. Everybody does. Yeah, I always think like, you know, first of all, that they're, the one assumption that always,

I'm always told is incorrect. We're getting a ticket from the toll. From the toll, yeah. Oh my God. Okay, slowing down, getting your ticket. There's the progressive lady. Flow. Advertised above the ticket.

Flow. Gotta interview Flow. Get Flow on the show. Gotta get Flow on the show. She'll hear it. but I always assume only children It's a lot of pressure not to fuck up because your parents are kind of have a lot invested Is that true with me? No, I think Mike's my mom had me a little later, and I guess later back then was like 38

Yeah, and they I was a really planned baby. Okay. And... There was no plan for another one? No, I don't think so. My dad was pretty deep in his career and my mom... What was that? My dad was a film commissioner for San Jose. Do you know what that is?

Oh really? Sure. They're the ones that kind of approve permits and... They help like location scouts. They go to conventions and film festivals. Be like, come to San Jose. We have a Ferris wheel. You can shoot on. And that's what my dad did. And that's why like, Flubber was filmed in San Jose.

Was that the last big movie filmed in San Jose? Flubber? That's the last one I can think of. Wasn't there a son of Flubber too? Was Flubber like, that was Kurt Russell, right? Like, son of Sam? No. Well, Flubber, there a son of flubber too was flubber like that was Kurt Russell, right? No Well flubber there was the original flubber, which was one of those like old Disney movies Yeah, I thought there was Russell. No, then there was a new one with them Robin Williams

Wow, he placed the scientists of the flub. I miss that one Yeah, I think you missed that one. Are you telling me Kurt Russell wasn't in flubber? Was it was it? It was probably in the in the original one? Right, that's what I'm thinking. Yeah. Yeah, and I kind of don't remember what it was So it doesn't matter cuz it wasn't filmed in San Jose But what other movies filmed in San Jose did your dad had so he had celebrity encounters Yeah, Matt. This is really bad movie called mad city was filmed in San Jose. It's got Dustin Hoffman and John Travolta. Oh.

And John Travolta. What was that about? He takes a bunch of kids hostage in like a natural history museum or something like that. And everything comes alive? And everything kind of comes alive. So it's like the night at the museum? No, no, he just kind of keeps these kids there

for really unknown reasons. Not a great movie. No but my aunt and uncle got to be extras in it as cops and yeah but my dad they didn't there wasn't a film commission before my and my dad I think kind of went to the city and and said we're missing a cash cow here. We're missing a cash cow because he was a big movie guy. Like really? He just wanted to be a part of the movie industry.

And before that, he was co-owner of a chain of independent movie theaters in San Jose called the Camera Cinemas. Yeah. All right. So you grew up with film. Yeah. He was he a film guy or a movie guy? Film. Oh, he liked it. So he was like into it. He was a nerd, a film nerd to a degree. Definitely. So did he enjoy, did you get a sense that he liked having a child? Yeah, he really liked having a child. He did? Yeah, he did. So you guys were buddies? Yeah, we were buddies. But when I was in fourth grade, he had a stroke.

And that kind of took him out of commission, kind of. Forever? Not forever, but my mom was a kindergarten teacher. And so she was busy all the time. And I didn't realize this until recently, but I guess, you know, after he came back from the hospital, she was like, okay, when you come back from school, you have to come back from school immediately and make sure your dad's okay. And I'm like nine or 10 years old.

And then that kind of, that's kind of why I'm in codependent relationships. So that was your responsibility. And that's kind of why I'm in codependent relationships, I think. So that was your responsibility. My dad was my responsibility, and so I really tried to make sure that he didn't, I was constantly making sure he didn't die, and that it was my responsibility. There were situations that were that dire?

No, but in my head, when you're little. Yeah, so you felt like his wife was in the balance Yeah, yeah, because you know your mom says take care of your dad. Oh my god. How debilitated was he? He wasn't debilitated. He wasn't really debilitated. He just had his he had memory loss Okay, I think that you know that led to other health problems. Yeah Maybe like kind of a personality change, you got kind of more emotional. Oh yeah?

Yeah. And this is from 10. Yeah. And you were the only kid. Yeah. Oh my God. So I kind of took a lot of that on and that's probably around the same time

I became a depressed person. Oh, so you don't think it was like a biological depression, you just felt like you were exhausted from codependency? No, I think it is definitely biological. You do? Yeah, and that just kind of manifested in a lot of different ways like OCD and all this other shit. But don't you think like on some level,

not to get psycho babbly, but like when you're put in that position with a parent, I tell a story a lot of times about how I could always make my dad laugh and he was a depressive. There was this moment where, when he was kind of bedridden with depression, and my mother said, why don't you go upstairs and make your father laugh?

You're the only one who can. Right. I think if you really think about codependency, it does deny you your sense of self. Yeah, well, just an example of like how I felt like I had to go through the world was like, if I ever got emotional, he would get really emotional and I couldn't really kind of describe

what was going on with me and that really upset him. Right. So when I was emotional that I made the connection like okay so I can't cry because that's gonna make him upset and so I'm just kind of gonna do my own thing over here. So you were he would absorb and erase your emotions. Kind of. And you just become an extension right yes you know what's weird I think you and I have a lot in common and I think that's why you know there is a weird understanding that is slightly tense tense not tense but like I think they're like cuz I knew this kind of right away I think that it's not a bad thing but I think sometimes you's not a bad thing,

but I think sometimes you meet people, and especially if you're people like us that have this codependency instinct, when you meet somebody that's kind of missing the same thing you are, there's kind of like a mirror thing where you're like, whoa, what, okay. Yeah, 100%.

And so like the emotional connection because of who you are with that person is sort of like, it's not volatile, but it's sort of like, it's a little awkward. Yeah. But you know, luckily I'm not like what debilitated or debilitated or like I like myself enough that when I'm see the mirror version of myself and a 60 year old guy, I'm like, I don't hate him. I understand him. So, but it's do you have friends? Yeah, I've always had friends. Well, that's good. But I also spent a lot of time alone like talking to myself or that's a that's the only child thing. It's necessary, right?

Yeah, and like did you like what were you doing? That's the only child thing. It's necessary, right? Yeah. And what were you doing? You know, pretending I was on a talk show or... At what age? 10, 15? I was being really little, yeah. Oh, really? So you'd watch TV and you'd be interviewed? Like a little Rupert Pupkin? Yeah, I made a cardboard cutout of Conan.

Yeah. And I mean, I was obsessed with comedy since I was little. That comedy was really important in my family. It was? Yeah. It was like a big through line, at least on my dad's side on the white side. My uncle was a standup briefly. Who was that?

His name's Sean O'Kane. He was a standup in the Bay Area was that same Sean O'Kane he was a stand-up in the Bay Area you know probably my generation oh earlier mm-hmm so he was there for the original for the explosion yeah but he couldn't cut it I don't know he decided to have a family and have a life and have a life and happy yeah and so it was part of your family. Did you find though for me comedy grounded me, made sense of a lot of things? Like I could watch stand up and be like, that guy's got a handle on it.

Yeah, totally. It completely made me thrilled. Because when you have boundary issues, everything's overwhelming. And you know, you watch a comic, you're like, that guy's got it under control. Yeah. Totally. When you see someone speaking eloquently in like a, I don't know, it's moving and it's immediately connective.

Yeah. And when you're feeling kind of lost and you're just like, oh, I can relate to everything this person is saying. And I'm getting a laugh. And I'm getting a laugh. And I'm getting a laugh. That's good. And it makes me feel good. Who are the people that you first realized you were enjoying?

OK, he's popping a Zin. Three milligrams. Cinnamon flavor, rare. Hard to find. Hard to find. Thank you for finding those last night. Founded in literally the worst convenience store in Cleveland. The only convenience store in the Cleveland we were in.

A lot of signs saying, please don't bother other people. In there? Yeah. It smelled like smoke in there. Oh, wow. Who were the first comics? Who were the first comics? When I was little, I was obsessed with SNL and I you know tape like well 12 13

Like 11 12 13 and that was like Will Ferrell and Chris Catan and VHS Shannon. Yeah And Tim Meadows and I was he wouldn't be able to stay up late. He'd set the timer No, my full sometimes I would stay up late with my dad. Oh, he was that into it? Yeah. Who were his guys? Who were his comics? Yeah, David Letterman. Oh, he liked okay. How was he my age? He's probably, he would have been 70 something now. Oh, okay, older. He was older. He was born in 1952 or something like that. So was he an old hippie? No, you know, he was hippie adjacent. He was kind of like, I would say, I would compare him to like a John Belushi kind of vibe.

Okay. Where he's not quite a hippie, but. Enjoyed the time, but was not ideologically involved. No, but you know, he was adjacent and he was a part of the culture and he was on the liberal side of things And what it so your mom's not white is that what you said? She's Filipino Filipinos man

Well, I'm I I've I'm kind of fascinated with them because it's one of the cultures I don't know a lot about. And like any other culture I don't know about, I'm like, when I eat the food, I love it. It's so good. A lot of pork and stuff. Food's really good. Fish too. But like culturally, how were you informed about Filipinos? So you have a lot of Filipino relatives?

Yeah, my mom suicides Filipino, but she was born there, but she moved here when she was maybe a baby. Yeah. So she was pretty Americanized. Yeah. By the time I came around and- Did you go to the Philippines? No, I want to go.

So outside of American Filipinoism, You know, it doesn't, you don't. I feel like I have no, my ethnic identity is pretty, I've been treated as a white person. So I guess I've lived more white than. Yeah, but you must get like, you know, like, what are you? My husband's uncle at a family function once when I said I was Filipino he looked at me and he was like I knew you were some kind of exotic. Like that's the kind of thing I get. People have guessed I'm a lot of different things and no one ever really guesses Filipino even Filipino people. Well I mean is it called is it still called Amor Asian? No

Pacific Islander, but no I'm but I mean like when you're half White and half Asian you're just mixed just mixed. There's no I guess that sure you know you're not hearing mulatto a lot anymore No, you're not No, I don't think so I I don't think I'm sad. I said it. Um, so when do you decide that the creative life is the life you want to live? High school? No, I kind of almost immediately. Oh, when you were 10? Yeah, when I was little, were you entertaining your father? I kind of was. I think, you know, he used to kind of parade me around to be like,

Claire, to quote the Godfather, like, because I hadn't seen the Godfather at a really young age. Yeah. I would do that and then... What would you do, Brando? I think I would just be like, take the canoeing, whatever. I think I would just be like take the cut to cannoli Your first stage time yeah, you know quoting movies all the time yeah But I didn't like doing that I didn't like Performing in that way, but then I like performing on stage in like a nice controlled capacity When did you first do that? When I was really little I did the children's theater you did yeah in like a nice controlled capacity. When did you first do that? When I was really little, I did the children's theater.

You did? Yeah. That's fun. I played chorus. I've talked to a lot of people. Yeah? Yeah. So when in high school, are you doing plays?

I'm doing plays in high school. I went to an all girls high school. Catholic? Mm-hmm. How did that fuck you up? I think it was good for me. You do? Yeah.

But play-wise, there aren't a lot of plays with all women that aren't sort of trauma-based and extremely adult, like the vagina monologues. Did you guys do that in high school? No. We did one, though. I forget. Catholic high school, the vagina monologues. My vaginas are waterfall.

But did you know that play? Did that have an impact on you? No, I never really read plays, I just acted in them. But we did this play, my first play in high school was this play called As It Is In Heaven, and I played a shaker. All us girls played shakers, and we'd wear these bonnets and stuff.

I played Fanny the shaker, whose brother sexually assaulted her. Oh wow. She would be overcome by angels kind of thing, and shake, and everyone thought she was. Catholic high school? This was when I was like 15. We had a pretty radical drama teacher.

They're important when they sneak through. Yeah, he was very important to me. Yeah? What'd you learn? That you could do that? Well, it was just validating. One time I was kind of too depressed to audition for the fall play. You had depression in high school?

Bad? Yeah. Did you get medicine? No. Oh man. So like, how did that, like, did it just kill your will? Like, did you not want to live anymore? Or was everything just dull?

Everything was just really dull and melancholic and hard. And the good things come from the art. They helped you? They helped me, but it's still being an only child and having to like, having these, my parents were super supportive of everything I did. Yeah. But I just still felt very lonely and alone

and in my own depression. Do you ever look at like those kinds of things like just farms off the highway and think like, I could live there. Every time. They look so good on the outside. Yeah, I just like, I just, I go from like I could live there

to what's going on in that place. Totally. Yeah. They're like I just I go from like I could live there to what's going on in that place. Totally. Yeah. Like I could fix it up. Yeah, it'd be that'd be like a life project. I like that a lot. Yeah, it's not I'm not gonna do it. So what happens do you ever get diagnosed? When do you go to the shrink? The first time I went to a therapist, unfortunately, she was like a Christian kind of centric therapist for kind of Jesus, undertones of Jesus. Oh yeah. And, but I only started going to that after her.

That was her prescription? Yeah. Yeah, just to give you a brighter note. She was like, I'm seeing a Jesus girl. Yeah. I, the first time I went to therapy was it was after I had dated a guy Who I lost the guy I lost my virginity to when I was 16. How'd that go? You know, it was a it was nice when it was happening. Yeah, and then it got bad and then he

He tried to kind of kill himself I say kinda You're being diplomatic. I'm being diplomatic. Respectful. He was drinking a lot, and he was maybe a year older than me. And I took that as my, because I broke up with him.

Or, you know, not because of it. After you broke up with him, he tried to kill himself. He tried to deal with all that That's heavy and then I blamed myself and for him trying to kill himself. Yeah, thank God. He didn't do it. Yeah Oh, that's a fucking burden. You're 16. Yeah, and you're already kind of wired to blame yourself Yeah, like it's my his happiness was on me. Yeah You know, I think he was kind of bipolar and that whole thing.

That's a lot of work to do. It's good that you are as self-aware as you are. It took a long time. I have a lot of time to myself to think about it and try to fix myself. Over the years? Over the years it's been all about like, well, what's wrong with me? Yeah, how do I fix myself? How did you? well, then I realized it's It's

It's everything's out of my control. Yes part Right. It's not it's not your responsibility You can detach from it like other people are other people they are themselves. It's their responsibility. Their happiness is their responsibility That's good. So when did you have that realization like? But you know, it's takes what it takes as they say, especially with my dad's stuff it was like It would be really I would really make it my responsibility to make sure that he was okay. He was diabetic and now I have food issues

kinda because of all that stuff where it's like, you know, he would eat like shit or, and then sometimes I would kind of raid the kitchen for all the bad food and I would eat it so he didn't eat it. You were doing exactly what he did. You were diminishing yourself in service of him. Yeah.

So how do you get out? How old was he when he passed? I honestly don't know. He must have been, let's see, he died in 2017. Oh, recently. So 1952. Yeah. I don't know how old that is.

Yeah, not old enough. No, and my mom died in 2010. How'd she die? She had lung cancer. Oh my God. Yeah. That's a horrible one. Yeah.

So you really went through it. The only child, both parents are dead, so you're it. You know, I tried to do a joke. The first show I did with you, I tried to do a joke. I was like. I'm glad you're working stuff out. Well, yeah. But there was a moment where I was like,

oh, maybe grief is kind of Mark's thing, and I can't be talking about it too, because people will think think I'm trying no, it's just a theme of the evening I know but then I in the joke Like I did it on stage and I said something to the effect was like well He's got one dead girlfriend and I've got two dead parents. So I think I win Yeah, and people did not like Didn't land it did not land. Yeah, yeah.

And I understand why, but. Needs a little something. I think it maybe needed a lot more context and. Maybe a stronger tag. I needed it to not be the first thing I said when I balanced the thing. Hi folks, let me try to alienate you immediately. Yeah.

I love that tactic. I used to do it a lot. But so. So yeah, I don't know everything. My older. Everything's heavy. Yeah, it is heavy. Carrying that kind of absence is just

whether you want it to or not, it kind of, it doesn't define you, but it's certainly a current of who you are. Yeah, and then it becomes a part of your narrative. Sure. When did you start, what'd you do after high school? How did you start to pursue your creative dreams? Well, I didn't think I was good enough

at acting or performing to really go to school for that. I just wasn't confident enough. But I liked taking pictures. Oh yeah. We've talked about this and I was- We're on the mic so. Oh yeah. We're talking about it again.

You haven't heard anything about this. We went to an art thing at the mattress factory and we both walked into an installation and part of it was like an old style dark room and we were both like, oh yeah. The smell. Yeah. The smell.

But I was really into photography in high school and I think I was pretty good at it and I got into art school. I am the only schools I really applied to were art schools because my grades were okay but they weren't like NYU good. Sure me too yeah. But I was smart I'm I think I'm smart. Yeah, but I don't I you know whenever teachers had meetings with my parents they'd be like If she's Claire tried like 10% harder. Yeah, it would be yeah That that's the worst fucking criticism. I got that all my life. He's got motivational problems. Yeah Shit. Yeah, I'm exhausted and paralyzed with anxiety and awkward and depressed in class.

Sorry I can't focus. Yeah, just leave me alone. I remember the one thing that I kind of, I had an English teacher, Dr. Hayes, and we wrote poetry in his class. And I remember I really was into it. And I wrote some really kind of you know stuff that was a little too not just emotionally raw for like a

15 year old and we read them out loud and I remember reading one poetry one poem I wrote about like my virginity and it was just one of those moments where the entire like no no one looked at me the same ever again. How old were you? Like 14 or 15. Oh my God, that's brave. Yeah, but I, the feeling, I can feel that feeling. I know.

Of awkwardness, like, and you just, you amplify it yourself. You're already awkward and then it's sort of like, let me put this out into the world. But it's, that's so vulnerable and it's like well that maybe this will turn things around in my favor. People will understand me now and then they do and they don't like it or they're uncomfortable and you're like oh no.

I can never tell anybody how I feel ever again. What were you shooting like what did you have photography heroes? I really like Robert Frank and people like that. There's this book called Teenage by Joseph Schabo. You told me about that. I didn't check it out. Like I know teenage, I know Larry Clark stuff. Larry Clark, he taught at the school

that I ended up going to. Really? Yeah. Did you teach, take courses? No, no. I was only there for a year. He's a little live wire, a little out of his mind that guy. I could see you kind of in another life turning into that guy. Oh, okay. Is that bad? No, it's not terrible. I interviewed him. I'm a big fan. I'm a huge fan.'s you know he lived the life you see totally those books and It's kind of questionable. What's quite a lot of drugs. There's a lot of speed Yeah, like old-timey shooting up, you know Ben's a drink kind of speed, but I was different time

I think I got in all that cuz I was into skateboarding Yeah, and I skated for a long time and. Oh, did the movie Kids change you? No, no, I think I didn't see that until I was an adult. Oh, okay. But I would watch, you know, a big part of skateboarding is photography. Right, it's by Jones. All of that and, you know, not just skate photography,

but the lifestyle around it. Oh really, like documentary kind of photography? Yeah, people like Ed Templeton, Jerry Sue, and I don't know, all these guys are being creative and have this thing that they do, and that was inspiring to me. So that was the life, man. So you were like, you know, I can relate to that,

and I guess it's something we share. Like, you know, there was a time for however many years where it was like, I'm gonna be an artist of this sort. I was gonna be an artist and I was gonna live in like a tricked out van in like, like Cardiff by the sea. Wow, you're really going out there. Or down there.

Yeah. Isn't that in Wales? Almost San Diego, no, not Cardiff. What's that place? You know those, there are these, all these little towns that are kind of close to San Diego, between LA and San Diego. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like Encinitas. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I wanted to live kind of a beach surf. Okay, yeah, sure. Skate lifestyle. Right. And be an artist. Right, so the art dream, like for me, it became practical. Like I just couldn't manage.

Yeah, me too. F stops in chemicals. It was like, there was too much, you know, science in photography. Oh, that's why you stopped. Yeah, for me to believe that I could really have a control over it. Weirdly, I was like, photography is a practical,

is a practical career move for me because I can, it's, I'm not opening myself up much to people, I can keep to myself, travel the world. I wanted to be like a photojournalist. Oh wow, yeah. And then I could, but then I could do good for the world. Yeah. And then, but I can't really,

like following my dream of performing felt so far away or being a comedian felt so far away and impossible. But you saw photography as a practical thing, both creatively but also as a job. Because if anything, it's one of the art forms that there are kind of paths you can take. Yeah, at that time there was. And with being a comedian or being on SNL,

I was like, I couldn't really think about. How do you get there? How do you get there? I knew like from, you know, going on GeoCity's websites about Chris Catan, and like looking up his biography and being like, okay, so he went to the groundlings. So maybe I don't go to college and I just start taking went to the groundlings. So maybe I don't go to college

and I just start taking classes at the groundlings. But I knew I can, it's so hard for me to be any sort of character other than myself. I kind of knew that from an early age. I said that to Matt, I was working with a Maddie, Maddie Wiener, and we were talking about this, about characters. And I said, it takes everything I have to be me.

Totally, and that's so hard to even just be, let myself be me. Yeah. And then I gotta be another, no way. And it's like, there's a vulnerability to pretending to be somebody, I'm too self-conscious for it. Way too self-conscious. Yeah, it's kind of a drag,

I've always wanted to do that, because a lot of my friends could do that like cross was always going in and out of people and I was like, oh, why can't I just and every time I did it was so fraught with vulnerability and fear that it never really translated to funny. Like I'm impressed whenever somebody can just do an accent and someone like that's that's kind of crazy to me that you can kind of change your brain in that way. Yeah, like it starts as mimicking, I think. But like some actors like to do it

because it gets them out of themselves. But I believe that some people that can do it are probably pretty fucking well grounded in themselves. Yeah, I hope so. You look at Bill Hader, you're like, whatever that guy grew up with, and I should know because I interviewed him, but he feels very stable to me,

and he can do almost, if Armisen's another guy, I don't know, I think Armisen's a little untethered in there, I don't know what's in there, but they do arrive back at themselves fairly confidently. Well, you think that, but then you also have to remember that these guys are good actors. That's right. Yeah. You're only seeing what you see. Right. So how do you make the shift? What is the event into performing as an adult? Well, I went to art school and then I did. In San Francisco ever. I was in Oakland. out. Were you ever in San Francisco ever? I was in Oakland.

Okay, so did you come up, no he's older, you didn't come up with Kamau and who were? No, they're older. Yeah, okay, so what happens in Oakland? I went to art school, I dropped out because my parents were like, well okay, so we didn't foresee you going to a $30,000 a year school and that's kind of all we saved

for your college or whatever. So either you, we can try to take a loan and you can keep going to art school or you can drop out and go to community college or something and so I chose to drop out. Yeah. And I went to community college. You did?

I did, and I started doing plays there. One of the plays went to the Edinburgh Fringe Festival. Oh, that was it, huh? And that wasn't necessarily it. But you got exposed to a fucking tsunami of comedic talent. Well, I was told all that had to happen was another adult telling me that I was good at something. Yeah.

That I was good at acting. Right. And that I could do it. Yeah. And so that really gave me the confidence. And then around that same time, my mom got sick and I was working, I was working in San Francisco at a video store.

Yeah. And kind of just bumming around and sometimes going to community college classes, but really not. And you're in the darkness. Yeah, and then I found out my mom was sick and that was like the worst thing that could have ever happened.

Yeah. When you know, ever since I was little, I'm like, if my parents ever die, I'm out. Oh really? I'm out. You thought suicidally? Yeah. Oh wow.

And then, cause it's like, that was just the worst possible thing I could think of happening. It's interesting when you have a brain that that's the option. Yeah, well it's always an option. But I mean, how do I deal with the horrible tragedy or grief? Well, I'll just kill myself.

Yeah. Well, because life is so hard. Yeah. You know, I'm just speaking in generalities. But it's like, I know how, like, anything that would make it that much darker, it almost seemed insurmountable. Yeah.

So, I mean, you know, this is just the thought as like a teenager. Sure. So how did you handle it? You showed up, you went down, you were there. I started doing standup. So my mom died and then a week later, I went to my first open mic.

In Oakland? In San Francisco at the Brainwash Cafe. At the laundromat? Yeah. Oh yeah, that started when I was there kind of. Yeah, and that was the place to go on, I forget if it was Tuesdays or Thursdays. Did you put together an act? I had a bunch of friends come with me and I got really drunk and I had some jokes.

Art friends? Yep, friends from art school. And they were all very encouraging and we had like planned it. It's like, let's go on this day and I'll do it. How much did you freak out? I remember when I started out. I got really, really nervous. For weeks.

Yeah. And you're doing five minutes for weeks! I think I kind of work well under extreme pressure. But it's interesting, the art school comedy thing, because when I was dating the painter, this was also interesting about talking about this, because I don't know that I ever saw, I get very upset when people say comedy or comics

are just doing therapy in front of people Right, right, right. It bothers me because it's not really it's there's a context to it and there's a job to it But but Sarah Kane her paintings are very you know full of color and she told me that she it is her antidepressant Hmm, and and I don't know that I ever consciously thought of comedy is that Comedy for me was my suppressant. Okay, that makes sense. I didn't let myself grieve because it was too overwhelming.

Yeah. And I drank a lot. But then I met all these comedians and I'm like, I immediately connect with these people. Immediately connect with them, not just on stage but like as people who are the people that of your generation there David Borey and a Sarah Gina Allison Stevenson Chris Garcia was one of the older yeah Chris Chris, a class above me. Yeah, yeah, okay. Caitlin Gill, Emily Heller. Oh, I know Emily.

You know, Brent Weinbach, I think had just moved to LA. Oh yeah, so they were the ones, they were around. They were around for sure and, you know. And you locked in. And so you started to like figure out how to write for yourself. Figure out how to write for myself, what to write about. I figured out pretty quickly that it was not therapy for me.

So I would try to talk about my mom and I just couldn't. The fact that I hadn't even like, I didn't even like thinking about, I couldn't even look at a picture of her. Yeah, or have a memory without getting overwhelmed. Yeah So I just didn't I avoided it altogether, right? So I talked a lot about what I was going through which was having a lot of sex drinking drink, you know, yeah and doing all the Avoid grief. Yeah, but then also talking about all my like What you do to avoid grief. Yeah, but then also talking about all my, like, all the things I do, all the things that are happening

in my head, like OCD stuff, or these sort of depraved thoughts, honestly, when I was, when my mom was dying, I was, a big thing was listening to that interview you did with Maria in the car. Oh yeah. Because she was one of my heroes, like her and all the comedians of comedy. Yeah. Yeah. Um.

I listened to that and she was talking about her life and all of her issues, and I connected so deeply. And she's very lucid about it. Super lucid and obviously is like. Just knows how to talk about it. Yeah, and lucid about it. Super lucid and obviously is like, just knows how to talk about it. Yeah, and found power in it. Yeah. Yeah. Find power in it and is interested in it.

Yeah. And I really connected with all of that. Oh, that's great. And that kind of was one of the things that I was like, oh, okay, I can make this work for me. Yeah, because she's like the full spectrum of it. And you're like, you know, if I can just do a little of that. Totally. Like it's an inspiration. Totally. Yeah. I can't. I wish I could do cool voices. I know. I wish I could embody other people. Yeah, but we're

not. We're not. Yeah. Um, but so anyway, I, and then I kind of just started doing that forever and now I'm just doing it. But like where, was there a point though where you're like, because I get the sense that like now when we talk that you still are kind of like, it's not just stand up. No, and I don't think it ever was. Yeah. I think I did myself a disservice by getting into it without grieving. Uh-huh. And because that hinders hindered me and just in general of being really open. Yeah. To stand up and really like jumping in and doing the whole thing. I don't know if that's true. I think a lot of standups, even the best ones

are still kind of shielding themselves from something. Yeah, I guess you're right. And there's probably a safety to that. Of course, you have control of the narrative and then if you wanna dip into that other stuff, you can try it, see how it feels and then pull out. It's just hard for me to go 100% into standup, because I like so many different things.

And I've got this concept of time in my head now, where I'm like, there's only so much time. I feel like I don't have enough time to do everything I want to do. So I really try to do a lot of stuff all at the same time. And that's what I mean by like hindering standup is like, if I just kind of focused on this one lane, then perhaps I would have gone farther in my career. But I'm okay with liking a bunch of different stuff and doing a bunch of different stuff.

Well, were you still doing art? Yeah, I'm doing art and making music and acting sometimes. But like at the beginning, when you were in art school doing the standup, was there a point where you were like all in standup? I was all in standup, but I was still taking pictures of standups. Oh yeah.

And when do you start to, like how does it unfold that you broaden it? Like, you know, I mean, to get a job writing on SNL. Well, my first writing job was SpongeBob. Oh, so how did that happen? That happened because I was living in LA and I was like 24. Yeah.

And I was living, I wasn't living with my boyfriend yet, but my boyfriend. Which boyfriend? This guy, Josh Androsky. Yeah. He was my boyfriend at the time and his neighbor was this guy Kyle and he became the head writer of SpongeBob. And Kyle liked us and was like, he asked my boyfriend first if he would wanna write

on the show and my boyfriend was like, yeah. And I remember my boyfriend, Josh goes to work to write for SpongeBob and I'm at home alone and I'm like, shit, I wish I could... In LA. In LA. And I was like, I wish I could write for SpongeBob. Yeah.

And then Kyle calls me and he's like, hey, because we're the only young comic writers he knew. Yeah. Have you ever thought about writing? It's like, I don't know. I'm not really, I don't know if I'm good at it. It's like, well, I don't know. If you ever want to come write on this Spongebob show.

And I'm going, the Spongebob show of my favorite cartoon ever, this thing I've been watching since I was a child. My dad's favorite cartoon. I go, but even then I was still like well let me like I'll write a sample first and you read it and tell me if you think that I could do I could still do it but even though he had basically offered me a job yeah so I wrote a spec yeah and I sent it and I don't even know if you've read it he's like yeah and then I got the job And that was a really insane experience.

In a writer's room. In a writer's room. It was also one of the first, probably the first times they were doing it, like they were changing the way they wrote the show. So this was like a proper writer's room where normally I think it was like, they have what they call animation writers

and the storyboard artists kind of have their own way of doing things. And so when we started doing it, all the old guard there were kind of not having it. Oh, so there's a fight. They were immediately and I think annoyed with us comics and as writers and you know, they're all guys who are kind of your age. I was the only girl in there. Oh wow. But Tom's a nice guy. I only met him once. Kenny? Yeah. He wasn't a part of that process. Yeah we kind of started at

the same time. Yeah. In Boston. Well he started in Syracuse with Bobcat. He's awesome. They were Bobcat and Tomcat. Oh yeah. And they both moved to Boston when I was in college. That's so crazy. I saw Bobcat when he left for LA or San Francisco. He had a garage sale on stage at Stitch's Comedy Club. Yeah, that sounds like Bobcat.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that was, and how long did you stay there? Just a couple months because our friend Kyle got fired as the head writer and then we were all subsequently let go but that experience was like, you know, it was so exciting and so intimidating and I got to write two episodes on my own and someone told me, someone who was working there told me I was the first woman to have a single writer's credit on that episode. I'm like, this show's been on for like 15 years.

That can't be true. And I think I may be of like one of three or four female writers in the whole history of that show. There were one time, they just like, some of these guys just treated me really weird. And you know, I remember I wrote an episode and there were drafts of it passed out to all the people to give notes on all the other writers. Yeah. And I got those drafts back so I could look at the notes.

And one of the head guys at the show had drawn on my script, a really beautiful drawing of a steaming pile of shit. Yeah. Like, because you know, he's a- Yeah, animator. He's a professional animator. And it's just my first job and I'm young and I'm like, oh, it felt so bad. Was he being a dick, clearly? Yeah, he was being a dick.

Yeah. Was he being a dick, clearly? Yeah, he was being a dick. And that kind of colored my whole experience a bit. But also made you know what you were up against. Totally. But then my next writing job, which was with Shrill, an 80s show. Yeah, great show. I got to write on two seasons of that, and that writer's room was so ideal and fun. So I've seen, even my short amount of time of writing, I've seen the gamut of how the vibe can be affected

by the assholes in the room, and more, or just the general feeling of it all. I really like it though. It's interesting that there's that fine line of of you know sort of Commeradary, but also competition. Yeah healthy Yeah, ideally unless you get someone who's really insecure and tries to talk the whole time and like get their ideas in it Yeah, there is a way of being in in a's room and when I was younger I really was nervous

to work with other people and talk to just be in groups like that and I don't know that was a whole other empowering thing where I'm like oh I know how to be a person. I can know how to read the room. Everybody who's a writer has that same problem. I know So you're with like-minded people totally so from 80 show you get referred to SNL I get referred to SNL Yeah, and that's how I got that and how what how long were you there? I was there for like a year total, but I started I started midseason and then I ended midseason huh, and I quit I started mid-season and then I ended mid-season. Huh. And- I quit. Right.

That's like, I've only talked to a couple of people that have quit SNL. Maybe just you and Hannibal. Oh, I didn't even know he wrote on that. Yeah, and he quit to be a standup. Wow. Maybe there's more probably, but- Sure there's more.

So what was it about that environment? Was it immediately what? This was just a couple years ago. I liked to think that at the moment I thought I was pretty secure in myself and my talents. And once you get that job, you're like, oh, this is it. Yeah. This is the goal.

The big time. For your childhood dream. For my, yeah. Right. But at that point, I had been told by other people who had worked there before who were friends of mine like, this job is hard. Some people thought it sucked. Yeah.

And I'm like, oh, I don't think I could do that. And I actually don't feel like I want to do that. Right. I would rather have more autonomy and be a stand up or write my own things. So when I got there, I was like, you know what? Okay, I'm going to embrace this. This is pretty insane that I get to do this. But almost immediately, and this wasn't forever, but almost immediately I was physically and mentally like back in middle school. Right. And I could, I started sweat, my palms started sweating for the first time

in my life. My periods stopped because I was so anxious. Yeah. I, the first night, the first night we would write, you know, we write on Tuesday nights. Yeah. I'm in my office, I got kind of a big office that I'm sharing with Rose, not with, am I sharing it with Rosebud? No, I'm sharing with someone else, but. Rosebud came on the year that I came on. I'm in the office alone, I close my door, and I'm sitting in front of my computer,

and I'm like, okay, ideas, ideas. And all I can hear are people laughing with each other and running up and down the hall. And I immediately start crying. Oh no. Because I'm like, I have to make friends again. I have to prove myself. I have to, this is a whole other thing,

it's a whole other world. It's not any, it's not like any other writing job. Yeah. And it just all hit me and it took a little bit for me to get out of that. But you never quite got over the hump? You know, I did. I did, but I, towards the end, I mean, I learned a lot.

And I honestly wish I stayed longer because what I really wanna do eventually is direct my own stuff. And I think you learn so much from working there, all the different aspects of making something. That's the coolest part. You get to talk to costume people and makeup people. You get to produce.

You get to produce. And you learn how to do that in a really short amount of time. Yeah. So the skillset stuck in, but what drove the decision to leave? I was having some personal problems, some a little mental problems.

I was drinking a little too much. Right. I was getting in the groove of the job and I thought, I think I was drinking a little too much. Right. I was getting in the groove of the job and I thought, I think I was doing pretty well. Yeah. I was getting some stuff on and having fun, but. Who'd you lock into? Who'd you write for primarily?

Well, in the short time, I tried to, I wrote with A.D. and then once or twice with Kyle Mooney and tried to write with Sarah Sherman. This guy, Dan Bola, who works there was very helpful because I found myself writing a lot of music stuff and he's kind of the music guy. He does the music with Adam Sandler a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I kind of just everybody I tried to work with everybody and see who fit and I don't think I was there long enough to really lock in with one any one particular person. But most of it wasn't driven by show relative problems. It was you're having a

mental issue. I think it just wasn't, I'm being a little diplomatic, but I just think it wasn't for me. The more I thought about what I wanted to do, and you know, I think I gotta shake myself out of this whole idea of like having to do everything I possibly can in a short amount of time before I die, because you never know when you're gonna die. Yeah, and it's a lot of pressure to put on yourself,

and it doesn't allow you to really focus on specific things. No. So when you left though, what was the guilt and shame factor? It was pretty high. But it was important, I felt like it was, I needed to leave in order to fix to help my life because all this stuff had built up at that point everything that you've been

suppressing and you've gotten to what unhealthy relationships with alcohol and people all sorts of bad things were sort of manifesting yeah it really wasn't until after that that I really started working much harder on facing grief and moving through that. And I'm still doing that, but it feels good. You know, I'm in a much better place. I think if I were to work at SNL now, I could deal with it and enjoy it. And it still seems like, but it's interesting that even having been in the comedy world,

I know we know a lot of the same people, you were friends with a lot of the guys from my generation and you were kind of integrated into it and everybody seems to know you and you know a lot of people in music and comedy that I imagine that once you kind of landed on your feet emotionally and mentally that was pretty comforting to know that stand-up was there. Definitely. Yeah. Definitely and I really, you know, every so often I would get in these ruts of like I'm gonna give up stand-up. Of course. And I'm gonna start focusing on things. I think you were in like one, two days ago. Yeah, we were talking about it and I almost tucked myself onto the ledge.

Yeah. But I think, I don't know, I learned so much just from that short amount of time and I think... But it also seems like you're pretty focused despite whatever, like, because it's hard to determine, you know, when someone is like, you know, like, I don't know about like the stand up and whatever, whether it's actually coming from an insecurity or self imposed obstacle. But it seems like you're pretty clear that you have a broad spectrum creatively, comedically, and you're trying to integrate a lot of things like on the new record, there's music. There's you know, what a recipe is a sketch

Yes, get so you're like you're still doing all that and you are kind of Like, you know a red flag for me when I talk to people I see what they're doing is when they're they're kind of half Hiding their output. Mm-hmm And you know and what that implies and I don't know what that is with you but I've known other people where it just comes from insecurity and then when it doesn't take off or no one buys a record they're like yeah man I don't know but that's insecure that's just the fear of everything that nothing happening from the output but you protect yourself against it by you know

minimizing the output hundred percent I'm yourself against it by minimizing the output. 100%. I'm really proud of, I'm really trying hard not to do that because I do do that all the time. Yeah. I'm proud of my record. I'm proud of everything I've done, maybe not in my life.

Sure. But creatively I think I've gotten to express myself a lot and just now I'm like, I think I know what I wanna do going forward and how to think about it. Well, that's fucking great. Like stand up, it doesn't have to be a end all. Or an end at all.

I can keep doing it and I can do all this other stuff. I can just keep, honestly, I could just keep, honestly I can just keep doing what I'm doing without thinking too hard about, as hard as I was thinking about it. Well yeah, because you have an artist's brain, you just have to accept that that's the life you're living and not be so hard on yourself and just see where it goes.

Yeah, I mean I think, I'm really excited about all the stuff I think I'm gonna do. I just gotta do it. I recently directed something for the first time. Yeah. And I was really afraid to do that. Worked out. And then, yeah, once I did it, I was like,

I know what I'm doing. Yeah. To a certain degree. Yep. And I know how to learn from other people without being an asshole. Good. I think.

Yeah, well, I think you're doing good work. And I think we did a good car ride talk. You liked the movie? I did like the movie. Okay, good. But that wasn't, you didn't write it. No, I know. No, no, you were great in it.

I just made you watch it. No, no, no, because I did take it in. I understood the limitations of the situation and knowing that they were improvising. I did like a lot of the qualities of the interaction and improvising depth is difficult. And those guys, they did all right with it. You were a lot more grounded in where you were coming from

and in your sort of emotional responsibility in the movie. Those guys were kind of all over the place, but it was entertaining. And through their exploring these type of men the best they could, there was some kind of interesting and provocative man stuff in there. You know what I mean? There's a lot of interesting and provocative man stuff in here, baby! Pointing at my brain. Yeah. Well, thanks for taking me on the road.

I hope I'm not annoying in any way. No, I think we've got the hang of each other. I think we understand each other. We do. Good talk. There you go. Nice car ride conversation. I like doing those.

It worked out. Her album, again, is called Everything I Know How to Do. There you go. Nice nice car ride conversation. I like doing those. It worked out. Her album again is called Everything I Know How To Do. It's available on all streaming platforms. Hang out for a minute, folks. Hi it's Fido. Start the semester with a new phone and a plan full of data without breaking your budget.

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alcohol to cope. But when we ask for help or we see someone struggling with addiction, someone struggling with addiction. Our silence speaks volumes. See how you can help or get help at Canada.ca slash ease the burden. A message from the government of Canada. Hey folks, I've been watching a lot of movies lately, so for Full Marin subscribers, we just posted an episode where I talked about my summer watch list. Jeremiah Johnson's a pretty satisfying movie.

Oh sure. And it's again one of those movies where it's one guy against the fucking world, against, it becomes the military, fucks him, he makes a deal with the devil, walks him through that cemetery, knowing he shouldn't, and he's fucked. And you just assume that those guys got killed anyways, but then it's just him against any random native assassin that comes from anywhere for years, for years.

And somehow, like at the end, him and the original guy, they just do the little, you know, arguably slightly racist, you know, how sign and. And everything's okay. You can get that episode plus all the bonus episodes we do twice a week when you sign up for the full Marin. Go to the link in the episode description or head over to WTF pod.com and click on WTF plus and just a reminder before we go this podcast is hosted by a cast.

All right, here's an oldie guitar riff by me. Yeah. So Boomer lives! Monkey and Lafonda! Cat angels everywhere!