WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1561 - Anna Akana

Episode Date: August 1, 2024

Moving from place to place throughout her childhood was difficult on Anna Akana, but it was growing up alongside the internet that really changed her life. Anna tells Marc how her career as a comedian and actor got going when she turned to YouTube after dealing with the lack of Asian representation in traditional media. Anna also explains how she became a mental health advocate due to her sister’s tragic death and why she decided to go back to comedy as a way to explore sensitive issues. Content warning: This conversation contains discussion of suicide. If you or someone you know are struggling and need support, call 988 from any phone to speak with someone at the Suicide and Crisis Lifeline. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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What's happening? I'm Marc Maron. This is my podcast. Welcome to it. I'm sitting in a different room than I usually do up here in Canada because there's some sort of massive event going on just below my building across the street in front of the art gallery, Vancouver Art Gallery, I believe it is.

There's a lot of things going on in that courtyard. And I don't know what it is, but it sounds exciting. A lot of applause, music that is clearly not music I'm familiar with. It seems like a very exciting event that I am a block and a half away from and Not going to why don't I just walk out there and see what's up just to see all those people together Clapping and cheering I've done it before there's been some

Protests and some other stuff out there, but I don't know if you're hearing that but it is happening What is going on with you? Are you okay? Is everything? All right? What is going on with you? Are you okay? Is everything alright? Where are you at in your life? Is it alright? Are you busy? Are you washing something? Dishes? Are you on a treadmill? What is happening? Right? Today on the show I talked to Anna Akana. She's a comedian, she's an actor, she has a popular YouTube channel where she does a lot of videos on mental health.

Now I don't, again, this is where we're at with the show after so many years, where I've kind of missed a couple of generations of comics. I don't know when it happened, but all of a sudden, like I'm the old man on the mountain here, and I didn't know Anna from Comedy Store, which is primarily the place I work, but I met her at my gym. And I didn't know Anna from Comedy Store, which is primarily the place I work,

but I met her at my gym. And I saw her at one of my shows at Dynasty Typewriter. And it turns out she works out at my gym, and she introduced herself, she said she was a comic, and I'm like, really? And I don't know why, if I don't know somebody, I'm like, how do I not know you? But I don't know hardly any of them anymore.

It's a sad thing about getting old. I don't know who's doing anything, and how would I? Even with my current scrolling addiction, I'm not getting a ton of new comics. Well, anyway, she tells me she's a comic, and she's a big fan of mine because of the stuff I talk about, the kind of darkness and the cynicism. And I'm like, well, thank you.

And she said she had a one person show going on at Dynasty Typewriter, which is a venue I work at a lot. And I was like, all right, well, I'll come see it. And it's not easy to get me out, but she had said she had written a book about her sister dying from suicide and the show was sort of based around that, and that she liked the way I handled it in my work, grief.

And I thought, all right, well, I'll go, and I went. And it was like really, it was moving, and it's hard to do comedy about heavy stuff. And anybody who takes up the challenge because they have to and it's in their heart to do it, I definitely respect. Pretty ballsy, I'll tell you that. So, after I saw the show and I see her around,

I was like, well, let's do the podcast. It's just so weird that I'm wary at first of Young Comics because I just don't know them. But then, I mean, I know, and she has a lot of stuff to talk about that I can relate to stalker situations, grief, and then there's this whole other world. And I always assume that younger comics, they're struggling.

I struggled when I was a young comic. And it turns out she's got a fucking ton of shit going on You know these this whole world of youtube. I don't know anything about that. I'm an old man I'll be in tucson, arizona at the rialto theater on friday september 20th Then i'm in phoenix at the orpheum theater on saturday september 21st You can go to wtfpod.com slash tour for tickets and to see all the latest updates to my dates that have been rescheduled for next year and Sadly, but not terribly sadly there's gonna be more of those because I this I'm about to close of this deal

for this Independent film I'll be doing which is gonna be good and think it will be. It's gonna be a challenge for me, but I'm gonna be definitely in the movie, the star of the movie, and it's a big opportunity, and I apologize for rescheduling the dates. But oddly, you'll be helping me because I'll be shooting an HBO special at some point next year, probably in the spring,

and these dates, when I move them up, it'll have a nice flow to it. I'm sorry if it screws up your scheduling. And also, as a side note, please use the links on my site to get the tickets. Don't just go look for my name for tickets in your town, because most of the time, the links that come up are scalper sites and two things you'll be paying more for the tickets if you go to those sites and you'll have

a difficult time refunding them, uh, because of the change. But if you work through the venue or through whatever the venue's ticketing operation is, that's not an issue. And again, I apologize for the inconvenience. So I know you're wondering how did the show with Alejandro Escovedo go. After I spoke to you last week about the nerves and everything else, you know, I went down there to the Pearl here in Vancouver. Alejandro was there and they were doing a sound check, watching him set up. We had some laughs, we did some talking. We did the sound check and it went good. I didn't know if I would have the guts or the wherewithal to kind of do Beast of Burden and free myself

to kind of riff through it like Ronnie and Keith do, but his guitar player was solid. His guitar player opened the show even. His name is James Mastro, been around a long time, great player, he opened the show with his stuff and then he played in his band and him and I worked out a thing for Beast of Burden and for Like a Hurricane, the Neil Young tune.

And in soundcheck I was like, this is, we fucking nailed this thing. It was great. So, and I was so nervous heading into this and it was very relaxed. And then I thought after that I had two hours to be like well that was probably it. It's gonna be different with people in there. But they did their whole show and it was great. It was great to see Alejandro and the band and they brought me up and I was pretty pretty comfortable

I guess all that, you know playing with guys at Largo with the dudes I play with has sort of paid off and I kind of like just let myself Take the risk and maybe fuck up but just do the riffs that I could do throughout beast of burden Obviously, I'm no Ron would but Wood, but we got the vibe going and it worked out and then it was perfect. It was great, great experience. The lead was good, I felt good about it. And then on Like a Hurricane, that was great too.

Did some nice leads on that and then the song kind of fell apart at the end because we didn't know where Alejandro wanted to go, but it didn't fall apart but the ending was a little abrupt because I think he popped a string. And whatever the case was, it wasn't my fault, but it sounded good and it was a real fucking thrill and an honor to do it.

And you know, there's some part of me, man, there's some part of me that thinks like, you know, that's what I really like to do and I'm still pretty proud of myself that I've always kept it a hobby so it's not dirtied up with expectations other than me wanting to play well and be present for it. If you're like me you're always thinking about safety. Am I safe? Is my home safe? Are the people I care about most safe? Are my cats safe? Are all my things safe? I know a lot of that is just going on in my head but I also know that you've got to take action for your own personal safety and security. That's why we took action eight years ago when we signed up

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simply safe comm slash WTF there's no safe like simply safe I should tell you that this conversation with Anna Akana deals with suicide. If you or someone you know are struggling and need support, you can dial 988 from any phone to reach the national suicide and crisis lifeline. I just want to give you a heads up. It's it's heavy We've all had people in our lives who have died from suicide I remember it very young I don't know that there was maybe a point where I got sort of numb to the idea of it because I had a father who was a depressive and

and also, uh, you know, manic as well. There'd be months on end where I'd get phone calls from him telling me he didn't want to live anymore, that he was going to kill himself. And that went on for years. And that's a, it's a heavy, it's a heavy burden to have someone in your life, in your family that is plagued with chronic depression and suicidal thoughts. And I grew up in that. My mother had her own issues,

but it's interesting to me as I get older and look back on how I was wired, how my brother was wired, my brother's best friend died from suicide years ago. It had a profound impact on him, obviously. And lately he's become very involved with support groups around processing that type of grief. And I don't know, you know, it's a, it's a difficult thing to sort of unpack

your childhood when you're brought up by depressive or mental instability in the home, because you're wired for that. You're just wired for that. You're wired to adapt to that. You find yourself around those people a lot because it's, it feels like home to you. I remember when I was first in some sort of psychotherapy when I was like 13 years old or so. It feels like about that time I was seeing one of the great child psychologists in Albuquerque, New Mexico, Mr. Tom Carey,

doing a group therapy thing. I do remember that I had a very big crush on a girl in that group. While I was in, not his care, but when I was in that group, she must have been a little older, maybe 14, 15, I don't know, maybe even 16, but I know I was young, but she attempted suicide, and that was the first time I remember really, really, really dealing with that, and it's really hard to wrap your brain around it. It's really hard to even understand why or how that happens.

But I do remember going to visit her in, it was either a hospital or perhaps some sort of mental hospital after the case and she had bandages on her wrists. And you know, and Tom had said I could go visit her. And I just remember we were listening to Steve Miller band and she was just sort of playing air guitar with these bandages on her wrists.

And I was just starting to think about that. Just how in my life, I guess because of how I'm wired emotionally, that I do find myself in relationship with people who have mental and emotional issues, as do I. And I guess that's the life's work, is trying to accept that and trying to have some normalcy in your life.

But in talking to Anna about this stuff, I mean, she's obviously processed her grief and the experience of you know her sister in her own way and choosing to perform about it and write about it and also sort of do these YouTube's is that how the kids say it YouTube videos that that are really focused on dealing with grief and mental health issues. And I guess, I don't know if I do that specifically, but certainly we talk fairly openly about a lot of different things here that have an effect

on people's mental stability, whether it's addiction or depression or whatever. A lot of artists have it, a lot of people have it, and we talk fairly frankly and openly about it, and I think that's helpful, and I do see that I do get a lot of emails from people that find solace and some peace of mind by not feeling so alone when this stuff

is talked about candidly. You know, I choose humor, you know, Anna's choosing humor, and I do believe that it's helpful. If it's not, it doesn't solve the problem, but it does put a different frame on it, and it does sort of demystify or disarm it a little bit. That is grief and the shock of tragedy. And I really think it's some of the best kind of comedy if you can go that deep with it and find those places.

But as I get older, I realize that it doesn't necessarily resolve anything, but it does open up the possibilities of framing it differently. And also, you know, being more public with your feelings about it because grief and tragedy are pretty much guaranteed in life. And humor and also just sort of like allowing yourself to feel the feelings are very important.

And again, I wanna say before I start this conversation that it does deal with suicide. And again, if you or someone you know are struggling and need support, you can dial 988 from any phone to reach the National Suicide and Crisis Lifeline. But this is not a depressing conversation and she's definitely doing a lot of stuff. This is me talking to Anna Akana. and a plan full of data without breaking your budget. We have everything you need for an A-plus year.

Come check out our special back-to-school offers. They'll leave you with more cash in your pocket for the stuff you love. Select plans even include data overage protection so you can go all out without going over. Don't wait, our back-to-school offers are only available for a limited time. Go to Fido.ca or a Fido store near you

and save all semester long. Fido, at your side. Hi, it's Fido store near you and save all semester long. Fido, at your side. Hi, it's Fido. Start the semester with a new phone and a plan full of data without breaking your budget. We have everything you need for an A plus year. Come check out our special back to school offers. They'll leave you with more cash in your pocket

for the stuff you love. Select plans even include data overage protection so you can go all out without going over. Don't wait, our back-to-school offers are only available for a limited time. Go to Fido.ca or a Fido store near you and save all semester long. Fido, at your side. Like I'm totally attached to cats. I'm totally codependent in my life. And like up there, I think about these things, but I don't wake up in it. Yeah, no, I feel like being on location is such a reprieve sometimes because then you don't have to worry about the cats. There's nothing you can do. There's like a sort of

a like I'm not in control anymore because that's over there. I know, but I, even though that's very sober. Yeah. I think in my better moments, if I work that muscle, I can work it, but my brain doesn't want to. I think really, I think it's about time you conquered your brain.

Yeah. You're old enough now. Like what else you got to do? Do it. AF. Yeah, work on it. I do work on it. Do some mirror work.

What's mirror work? Mirror work is when you, it sounds so fucking kitschy, but it's like when you look in the mirror and you do affirmations of the things you wanna believe. So what are yours? A lot of mine actually have already come true, or I've done, so. You've manifested them?

I've manifested them. You believe that? I do, I do. Well, what were they? Well, one was like, you know, upleveling my self-esteem, stop feeling like I need to control everything in my life to feel happy, to feel like an inherent sense of trust that everything is gonna work out and be fine,

even when it doesn't seem like it is. And then there was also dumb little shit that I was like, maybe I'll just try to manifest this and see if it works, yeah. So what's your manifestation rate? Oh, I don't know. Like 80%? I don't know, I don't do the math on it, but so far I think it's good.

I don't know, man. Here's the deal with you. Cause I met you, I saw you at my show and then I saw you at the gym. But like there's this thing that's happening now where all of a sudden I'm just old. And I don't know what's going on. It's time, it's time.

It's time to be old and not know what's going on. I know it's unavoidable. But like, I didn't know that you like, were this, you know, content producing animal. What can I say? That, and that, you know, cause I saw the show about your sister, and like, I just don't know what anyone's up to,

and everyone kind of kind of build their own world, their own little show business, which you seem to have done. Yeah, I'm doing okay. Yeah. Yeah. But I didn't know that. Now I do, why would I? What am I supposed to do?

Be like, hey, Mark, I'm a content baron. Nice to meet you. Yeah, yeah, that would be good. Yeah, so I can't even say- I mean, we did talk on Instagram, so I was like, you have the ability to see. Well, yeah, but then so much of it on YouTube and everything else,

but I didn't, but also I didn't know like your comedy history because I just can't, I can't keep up anymore. But I did see the show and I found it, you know, dark and funny and there are just some disturbing moments. Yeah, what was disturbing to you? In a way. Was it the hair? Yes, it is. I love it.

But I don't want to ruin anything for Edinburgh because you got, you're going to slog through a whole fucking month there. I am, I don't know why. I think I'm going I love it. But I don't want to ruin anything for Edinburgh, because you're going to slog through a whole fucking month there. I am. I don't know why. I think I'm going to regret it. I think I'm deeply going to regret it. That thing traumatized me more than almost anything else doing that festival. Did you do it once? Twice? I'm never going back. I did it once. You did it once? For that full month thing.

Was it still rewarding, even though it was the worst thing ever? Well, I wasn't really doing a one-person show. Okay. I was up there on a double bill, and, you know, it was produced, so I didn't have to, you know, invest my own money. But, like, the whole... and I wasn't known, really. And I didn't know that if you were on a double bill, that that implies that you're green or something.

It was just a slog. Yeah, yeah. And the audiences were light most of the time. And it's just like, you know, hundreds of other shows, people handing out flyers and I'm like, and I just gone through a separation from my second wife and I was like leveled. I was in emotional mess.

I was in another country and I couldn't get nicotine gum. It was bad. They didn't have nicotine gum? No, you had to get, when I was there, you had to get it from a doctor. Oh God, and you weren't drinking at the time. So you were just like, I have nothing, I have no vices. Yeah, and the nicotine, I can't, fuck it.

Anyway, have a good time. Thank you, I'm gonna try to just think of it as a boot camp experience and Write and read and okay. So let's let's do it because now I need to know about you. Where'd you grow up? My dad's military so I moved every two years But like I've been in LA longer than I've been anyplace else but like every two years like throughout your entire childhood Yeah, what was what was he in the military? He was a he was an aerospace engineer for the Marine Corps So he worked on a lot of jets. And then after 9-11, he handled all the Western hemisphere

like war strategy stuff. What do you mean handled it? It was classified. I just know that he deployed many people to many places. What's his rank? He retired as a lieutenant colonel. He was supposed to be a commander, but there was this big hubbub where he actually turned it down because there was some kind of mission coming up and he

knew that if he was in that position, he would put his men above whatever his commands were. And whoever actually got the promotion, it means like you would be a traitor to your country. You would get, you would have a trial within the military. And so he would be the fall guy. Yeah. Well, not the fall guy, but he wouldn't have put his men in a dangerous situation like where they were sure to die.

So he turned down the promotion. And whoever it was that got it, I think, went to jail. Really? Yeah, for also disobeying. That's crazy. Disobeying, putting the men in a situation that would not end well no matter what. Correct.

Wow. And then he retired? Yeah, he retired. He was forced to retire. He did 26 years, and they were like, you got matter what. Correct. Wow. Yeah. And then you retired? Yeah, he retired. He was forced to retire. He did 26 years and they were like, you gotta go, get out of here. So where did you live, all these different places?

I have a bunch of the South, like North Carolina. We moved like every six months between the South when I was really young and then Japan, Hawaii, California. Those sound pretty good. Yeah. The South doesn't sound great and I'll get flack for saying that. North Carolina's pretty.

North Carolina's beautiful. It's beautiful, it's all beautiful. Yeah. Yeah, I don't remember the South, so it was fine for me. What do you remember? I remember my parents couldn't understand me because a Southern accent is the first accent I had, so they would be like, I don't know what she's saying.

And your dad's Filipino? No, my dad's Japanese Hawaiian, my mom's half Filipino, half European. Half European, just general? Spanish, French, English, German. So how did they meet? My mom was a waitress when she was 17 and my dad was a GI over in the Philippines.

And he walked into the restaurant and was like, I love her. And then I think he was engaged before my mom, but she smoked weed, so he was like, I don't wanna be with you anymore. And then- Who, the fiance? The fiance, yeah.

Yeah. She was also in the military, and my dad broke up with her because she was a stoner. Yeah. And then married my mom. Yeah. Yeah. And that, when she was what, 17?

18. Really, how old was he? He was, he's 11 years older, so yeah. And they, and then, so after that, that's when they moved to the South? He was rising up? Yeah, yeah. He brought her to the States, and it was weird because they had a hard time dating.

They did like long distance for a little bit, because my mom likes to nap, so she overslept on both of their first dates. So he bought her an alarm clock, and then I guess on their first date she like farted or something. And my dad was like, oh my God. You guess?

Huh? No, that's what she says. She says she knew he was the one because she farted really loud. And he asked her if she had stepped on a frog. And she was like, what a gentleman. And then I was born. That's why I'm here.

It's so funny, you don't want to be with the stoner, but the person that can't wake up to go on dates is like. I know, with lots of flatulence. I was like, okay, dad. The gassy girl. Yeah, I was like, what did you see in her? And they're not married anymore? No, they still are.

That's crazy. They're in the Philippines together. It's Father's Day there today. Did you call? I sent a WhatsApp. He doesn't like for me to call unless there's something he can explain to me. Like what?

What do you rely on your dad to explain to you at this point? Sometimes I'll be like, what's the difference between a Roth IRA and a SEP IRA? Or my motorcycle stalled, what is the troubleshooting I can do? You have a motorcycle? I did, I had sold it, but when I did have one, he loved it, because he could explain

a lot of the mechanics to me. What kind of motorcycle? It was like a little Honda 250cc, it's like a little rebel. What stopped you from driving that around still? Dying? Someone hit me, yeah. Someone knocked into me. So I was like, I'm good.

That moment you realized like, oh, I can't, a car will kill me easily. Yeah, oh, I'm 90 pounds wet. I was like, I'm gonna die. So that's how I saw it. So when do you remember, you know, consciously wanting to do show, now, so your sister who passed away and killed herself, was how much younger? She was 13, I was 17. So she was four years.

I don't mean to be callous about it. No, you're fine, you're fine. She was the youngest, and then I have a brother who's three years younger than me. So she was the youngest, so there's how many years difference? Four years between me and her. Yeah, so I was 17, she was 13 when she passed away. When she died, oh my God.

So where would that happen? That was in Temecula, California. So we moved out from Hawaii to here, which was kind of a culture shock for us because when we lived in the South, we didn't realize that we were any different from anyone else. We were the only Asians on military bases,

but we were too young to understand. And no one in the military was really racist to you. It was kind of a really lovely environment. Really? Yeah, there was so much camaraderie. The only people we hated were Army or Air Force. Everyone was kind of bonded by your respective military branches.

And then we came to, in Hawaii, white people. Where were you in Hawaii? Eva Beach, like on Oahu. And everyone would bully the white kids. So we were predominantly, we were the majority. Same in Japan. Asian. Same, yeah, all Asian.

And then in California, I was 16, and it's the first time people were like, hey, go back to China, you chink. And I was like, oh my God, how embarrassing for you. Where'd that happen? That was in Temecula, it's really racist. But like in high school or? High school, yeah.

Oh my God. So the changing school things, like did you have that horrible experience that people in the military have where they have to change, they just get new friends? I loved it. You did? Yeah.

Because you're weird or? I think it was just like I always wanted to be an actor so every time you went to a new school, you were like I'm gonna try on a different facet of my personality. I'm gonna be like the bookworm here. You were consciously doing that? Yeah, I was like let let me explore, like,

being a different version of myself. When did you know you wanted to be actress? Like, five. So, like, you would move and just, what, get glasses? Yeah, I guess so, yeah. Yeah, like, change my voice a little bit. And you'd just commit to it? Yeah.

For as long as you were there? Yeah, just see if I liked it. Yeah? Yeah. And, well, where you ended up, are you you? I think so. I think, I don't know, I think like sense of self continues to change and evolve as you experience things.

And for a long time I was like, do I have a sense of self because I moved around so much and tried on all these different things. But I think now, yeah, I think I just try to honor where I'm at and I'm like, this is who I am right now. Yeah. Yeah. What about you? Is that still an elusive thing for you,

or do you feel like you've settled into it? Well, I know that my engine of self is probably slightly different than who I am in the world most of the time. In what way? Well, I think that like emotionally, I'm like pretty stunted. And that, you know, my sensitivity and my ability

to sort of have, you know, grown up emotions of function is stunted. And, you know, grown-up emotions that function is stunted. And I'm aware of that. So the joke I wrote about years ago was the monster I created to protect the child inside is hard to manage. So, you know, I still think that that's operative, but I think they're closer.

And I think that, and I don't know all about this talk about authentic self and shit. You know, because how much can you really do that? I don't know. But don't you feel that there is a vulnerability that you keep to yourself? Yeah, yeah, but I don't know. Like, I think now more than ever,

it's really hard to figure out, because anything you put online, even if you're trying to be quote unquote authentic, it's still performative in some way. And I think growing up alongside the internet, my generation has this sort of splintered sense of self, where you have your public persona, or the way in which you know you're being perceived,

or you're trying to be perceived, versus the way you act when no one's really looking. And so I think I try to marry them as much as I can. Like I wanna act the same as I do online as I do in real life, which is like a losing game. Ultimately, I don't think you can 100%. But I don't know, I think that makes sense. I'm pretty close though.

Like even when I was doing Instagram Lives, which is not, like I don't produce stuff like you do. I'm not trying to make a show business, but I've trimmed my nose hairs. On Instagram Live. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know.

Maybe keep that vulnerability to yourself, Mark. I don't know. It didn't help anything. Yeah? You don't feel like you're vague authentic in that moment? No, I do. But I think what ultimately happens, and I'm sure you've experienced this in a different way,

but for different reasons, is that ultimately what happens if I'm on Instagram Live for an hour and a half and I'm just having my day and doing that, that you're, not unlike these conversations, you're gonna see who I am. And the same with like how I do the podcast. So what happens is, is people believe they know you.

And I think they do, but I don't know them. Yeah. And there's some things that they don't know about me, but it makes it a little weird. Parasocial relationships are weird. They are very weird. And fucked up because they have this sense of who you are and some of it can be real, but most of it isn't. And it became uncomfortable.

Why do you think you, because we've had this conversation about having stalkers and having people who have really inappropriate boundaries. Why do you think you continue to engage in that? I fall back a lot. Yeah? Oh yeah, I don't do them anymore. Yeah?

Yeah. I won't do it anymore. It's just like there's too much mental illness out there. Yeah. It's just real. I mean, I think people who reach a certain level with that stuff are just sort of like, I never look at the comments, I don't even manage my own site anymore.

It becomes just a production outlet. But the way I was engaging with it, I was alone here. And I was in grief, and I was like, wanting to stay connected to somebody. But still like, it felt too vulnerable, and it felt like I was, you know, I couldn't, I had no control over people's engagement with me. And, you know, in terms of boundaries,

I'm not great at them anyways. So you just get gracious about it. But I don't know what your experience with the stalker was. I mean, which one? There's so many answers. Well, let's go back. So you get, so you're in, you find, the place you were at before you came here was Temecula.

Yes. And that's where you went to high school? Yeah, to Chaparral High School. Yeah. So what's going on with your sister that led up to? Oh, so basically we encountered racism for the first time really in California. So we came to a new school, we were kind of being bullied for being different. Oh, so basically we encountered racism for the first time really in California.

So we came to a new school, we were kind of being bullied for being different. And then, you know, you were kind of segregated by race at my high school. You're hanging out with the Asians kind of thing? Yeah, the Asians like come and they descend upon you and you're dancing for youth for Christ, even though you don't believe in God.

You're like, what is this? Is that a church? Yeah, it's like the youths for the Christ, for the Jesus. Yeah, but wait, is that an Asian thing? It's a religious thing. It's like an organization to gather young people. Oh, at high school? No, there was like an organization at the high school

and then you would form dance teams because everyone was like a B-boy or a B-girl and then they would send you off to competitions. So you would battle other Asians in dance forms. It's not that cult though, right? Which cult? There was a documentary about that cult, that Korean guy who used to have a church. Oh my God, I haven't seen this.

A cana or something is the name of the church. No. And then he got into management, he got all these dancers and he brainwashed them. I hope that's not the same one. No, I don't think it is. I don't think it is. So no one was making money off you guys? No, we just danced and vowed to be something.

Is that where you started dancing? Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I danced for Jesus to start off. And how's your relationship with Jesus? I mean, Jesus is pretty hot, you know? He's got really great abs. He was my sexual awakening. You looked up at that guy at church

and you were like, oh my God, what a stunner. No. They shouldn't have made him look so cute. Look at those abs on that cross. Yeah, look at those abs. He died for my sins? Oh my god, what a selfless gentleman. Did you believe it?

I did until I had a priest tell me my sister was in hell because she committed suicide. And then I was like, fuck you. Fuck this whole religion. I'm out. So go back. So you're experiencing racism, and it's hard on your sister. Yeah, she's being bullied She had a group of white white guys basically come up to her in her middle school and say they were gonna beat her up after School or something the next day so she told her teachers

They didn't take it seriously because this is before bullying was really taking that seriously And then she brought an air gun to school to protect herself. Someone found out about it, she got expelled. And she had dyslexia and she had all these learning disabilities that my parents were like, that's not real. And so she was going through a really hard time and she was in a new school, difficulty making friends. My dad was not the greatest, being expelled

is one of the worst things that can happen to you. What did he do? He became kind of abusive in a way and like wasn't really nice. You know, we. And they didn't believe in psychotherapy or any of that? No, they didn't believe dyslexia was even real, even though she tested positive for it. And so her school wanted to put her in like a remedial class

and as an Asian family, they were like, absolutely not. So she ended up committing suicide on Valentine's Day in 2007. And did you see that coming? No, no. Because she's only 13. She's only 13, I didn't even know you could. I didn't know that was an option.

And I feel, I had a lot of guilt that I dealt with afterwards because like I'm the last person who saw her alive. But that wasn't depression. I don't know. That's the hard thing is, it's like, are you depressed or are you just 13 years old going through middle school? And you're 17.

I was 17. But she was in a new environment, moving around was hard on her. She had a hard time learning and a hard time making friends. And I think it was an impulsive decision that she didn't expect to be permanent. Because like she, I mean, I don't know how graphic to get trigger warning, but like she hung herself with a scarf in her closet. And for a long time, we were very confused because she was right next to a toy chest.

So at any point, she could have like stepped up on this toy chest and ideally, you know, taken the scarf off of herself. So we've kind of come to the conclusion that maybe when she stepped off, you know, it constricted in such a way that it knocked her out. And she was just there, um, and my brother found her way too late, unfortunately. But... Yeah, it was a really... I thought she left a fucking suicide note for like half my life.

And then I was talking to my dad to verify some stuff for the show and he was like, oh no, there's no suicide note. I just read her diary. That's how we knew what happened. What was in the diary? Just like all the bullying stuff, like things that we- But not a suicide note. Not a suicide note.

Just what she was going through. What she was going through, I guess also the last page of it was just like, I hate you and I hate you. It was like a big list of like, fuck everybody and you know, just like an angry, angry. And your brother found her, it's terrible. Yeah, yeah. So what did the family do?

We did like one session of group therapy and then that was it. My parents didn't force us to go to therapy any longer than we wanted to. Yeah. But so you didn't really resolve the grief or really process anything? No, I mean, I did therapy on my own for like 17 years,

but my parents actually wouldn't even talk to me about it until I made it about work. Cause I was like, oh, I'm back in standup. I have a whole hour about Christina. I need to talk about it to verify some things. And they were like, oh, okay, yeah, let's chat. Like, what do you need to know? And that's the first time they've opened up about it.

So. What was the impact on the family, generally speaking? Everyone kind of mourned on their own. So it was like a really, I mean, I was doing a bunch of drugs, so from like 17 to 19, I would do like MDMA or acid every day by myself myself or like just smoke all this weed, like steal a bunch of wine from like a liquor store

and like just chug it. So I was kind of like not emotionally or mentally present. And so, yeah. You're being self destructive. I think so, yeah. As a reaction to what, guilt? Yeah, I mean, the last thing I said to her was I I hate you, and I'm the last person who saw her. So there was a lot of like, oh, I could have stopped.

I directly could have stopped this. She came to me before she did this. And have you resolved that stuff? I have, I have. Like, I know it's not my fault. There's obviously things I wish I could have done differently. Because I think it was Valentine's Day, so I was going to the park to have a picnic

with my boyfriend at the time, and I walked by her door. And I remember thinking, oh, I should go in there and tell her I'm sorry, and that, you know. And I was like, ah, whatever, fuck it, I'll talk to her later. So there's years and years I spent just ruminating. Yeah, yeah. So when do you, so how bad did the drugs get?

The drugs were bad. I mean, I did a lot of it. I think I did ice cream scoops out of my brain with acid and MDMA and yeah. Your brain seems all right. Yeah, it's forgetting a lot of stuff. Really? Yeah, I mean, there's so many comedians,

so I'm like, nice to meet you. And they're like, we did comedy for years together. And I'm like, I have no memory of that. Really? Yeah, I mean, there's so many comedians, so I'm like, nice to meet you. And they're like, we did comedy for years together. And I'm like, I have no memory of that. Really? I'm so sorry. Yeah, but I know people like 20, 30 years, I don't know their name. Oh, that's good.

Okay, that's reassuring. I think that's more a product of self-centeredness. Self-centeredness, okay. Like, you know, you just kind of- Or trauma, maybe? Yeah, maybe. See a little trauma in there. Yeah, but like for me, I don't like,

cause you just have to grab it and hold it. It's not just a passing moment. You know, we're like, oh yeah, that guy. But I mean, seriously, guys I should know. Like, I mean, I see them and I'm like, fuck. I should know this person. But you recognize their faces, right? No, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, you just don't know their names. Yeah, yeah, I'm like, what's up buddy? How you doing, pal? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I'm like, what's up buddy? Yeah. How you doing, pal? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So, how do you stop the drugs? I mean, I did drugs for a long time, Mark. I really liked psychedelics.

They helped me deal with my grief. I think I just- How'd they help you deal with it? Because I confronted my mortality at 17 fucking years old. And- Because, which psychedelics, acid? Ac acid really helped a lot it helped it helps It always made me nervous really yeah I never could really just sort of like enjoy the process were you doing it alone with no

I didn't do a lot of it, but when I did it when I was younger It was just the panic just took over it wasn't you know what I mean? I couldn't just sort of like, here we go. It was more like, oh fuck, what's happening? Yeah. Have you done ayahuasca? No, I'm not doing that. Yeah, maybe you shouldn't. It's really gross.

No, I mean, what is that? It's like. I know what it is, but it's like, it just seems like bullshit to me. Like, you know, the guy who used to be a barista is now a guru and, you know, he's walking around giving everyone a bucket. I mean, I understand the power of psychedelics,

and I believe that they can permanently change the way you see things because of what you see on them, but I would argue that the long-term benefits are probably limited. I don't know, I think it depends on truly how much you wanna change and how you you're approaching it because has it been Commercialized and co-opted by the West for sure, but it is still ultimately, you know If you approach it the way it's intended to I think in an indigenous culture where you're like I have something

I'm I'm bringing to the table that I want to work on and change. I think it can be really beneficial Yeah, I do think people abuse it a little too much like they go a little too much where I'm like Oh get a fucking stamp card at this point. But- Yeah, you're just like tripping balls twice a month. Yeah, you're just like rocketing yourself to the moon. With a license.

Yeah, like, you know, like, no, it's for- It's good. Yeah, yeah. I'm taking care of myself. Yeah. When do you start doing comedy? I started when I was 19, after I saw Margaret. So you're doing a bunch of acid and ecstasy

and you're still sad, but you're not feeling the feels properly. Correct. Then you see Margaret's show where? I don't remember. I was high, Mark. But it was here in LA? I think so.

Had you moved or you just came down? No, I was still in Temecula. So maybe it was like Oceanside or something. What year was that? 2009? Okay. I'm trying to remember the periods of Margaret. Because I mean, I've known her forever.

Like I knew her back in San Francisco. Wow. When she was doing that juice place. But she's gone through a lot of shit. Yeah, she really has. So what did you see when you saw her? I don't remember the exact jokes. No, but I mean, what was the vibe?

What was the feeling? I mean, it was just like, I'd never seen an Asian woman do standup before. Right, there weren't that many, right? There was like Margaret and that's it. Like most of the well-known Asian female comedians today are ones I started out with around that era where. That's interesting, there really wasn't.

Like when I was at the Comedy Store as a doorman in the late 80s, there was a woman named Tamayo, Tamayo Otsuki, but she did like a very broad, you know, caricature. Like Clebsa, yeah. No, it was just sort of like, like it was at that time Mitzi, it was like Yakov Smirnoff, but Asian. Got it, got it.

You know, the point of view was of a stereotypical Asian woman in a way. Whereas Margaret, you know, she has her mom voice and stuff like that, but it's still, it's so good. It's the best. But it still felt so anachronistic and rooted in like, reality and was representative of like, an Asian woman I'd never seen before.

You know, Margaret's so cool. She's like covered in tattoos. She's also dirty. She's dirty. Yeah. She's like, yeah. And so I saw her and I remember just leaving and the sort of crushing weight of my sister's death

kind of came rushing back in. And I was like, oh, for 30 minutes, it really wasn't at the top of my mind, which was the first time that happened. I like laughed in earnest watching her. And I was like, wow, that is like an amazing gift this woman gave to me and I would love to give that to someone else.

Huh, that's interesting. But it was complete sort of identification and the idea that, you know, comedy can make you feel better. Yeah. But you'd never had that before, watching comedy or being? No, I'd never really been exposed to stand-up before. My dad was like really obsessed with harem anime. So all we watched was harem anime.

Okay, that's pretty good. So yeah, that's all we watched growing up. Is anime. Anime. The strong stuff, Japanese. Yeah. What's harem anime? Harem anime, you'd like it, Mark.

It's where seven different women are really in love with and chasing this like one mid man for no discernible reason and they're all obsessed with him and trying to fuck him. And so we would just watch that as a family. They still watch it. Really? Yeah, my dad's watching, is it wrong to try to pick up girls in a dungeon?

And that time I got reincarnated as slime. Those are his big ones right now. Interesting that he's kept that going. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I don't know a lot about anime, but it's like always pretty captivating. Yeah, it's pretty. But they seem borderline porn. Oh, it's very horny.

They're just naked all the time, like flying around in a hot spurt. And he just saw it like, well, they're cartoons, so the kids can watch them. Yeah, they'll love this. So no comedy. No comedy. And what was your brother doing?

How was he handling everything? Are you guys close? We're very close now, I love this. So no comedy. No comedy. And what was your brother doing? How was he handling everything? Are you guys close? We're very close now, but we were very separate, like separately grieving at the time. And then he kind of came into my high school and I kind of took him under my wing and we got closer from that.

But yeah, I don't know. My family just kind of grieved very, very. I mean, this- Do you think that's specifically Asian? I think it's specifically us, like our environment. My parents are very unique in the sense that they were gamers when I was growing up. They're very obsessed with pop culture.

My dad was like a World of Warcraft fanatic. My mom loved Nintendo. They would take us to wait in line at midnight for like the next Harry Potter book, but they'd only buy two copies. And my parents got to read them first while we had to wait. And so, you know, our culture growing up was grab your dinner, go in your room,

go on your computer and like play your little games. So we were always very independent. Like everyone can be in the same room but we're all on our own devices or doing our own thing. So you didn't get that specific, do you think, and I'm not, I don't know what I'm saying or if it's racially insensitive, but it seems like, in a way, you're mixed race Asian, right? Yeah.

And it seems like that the people that are solidly, ethnically one thing, especially Asian, they create this kind of ambition in their kids to prove themselves. Yes. Did you grow up with that? Oh yeah, I mean my dad's military. So there was a-

So it was a combination of Japanese and American military. Yes, but my dad's also like, he wanted me to be a Marine Corps officer. Really? Yeah, cause his dad was one, he was one, so he had it in his head like, the oldest should be in the military. So I was raised in like ROTC camps every summer, having to do the electives, like I fully was like, yeah, the oldest should be in the military. So I was raised in, like, ROTC camps every summer.

Having to do the electives, like, I fully was like, yeah, I'm gonna go into the military and either be, like, a doctor or a pilot. And so... How did you avoid that? Just, is that something that got hijacked by your sister's suicide? Yeah, yeah.

I was like, oh, I don't wanna fuckin' do this. And then I took organic chemistry in, like, a community college. I was like, no, I'm, no. No. No. Wow, so that saved you from military life in a way. Yeah. and I took organic chemistry in like a community college and was like, no, I'm, no, no. Wow, so that saved you from military life in a way. But you seem to have the discipline of a military person. I do, I do.

So you see Margaret and then you what, you decide I'm gonna do this? Yeah, I fill out a notebook of everything I think is funny, it wasn't. And then I worked at GameStop at the time. GameStop. GameStop. So you're a gamer too? I had to stop.

I get real addicted real fast. So I don't have them anymore. What were your games? I mean, I really liked RPGs. I wasn't like a player by player fight kind of gal. Everything had to kind of be third person. So I liked Gears of War or anything like that. Call of Duty was a little too much

being first person POV, but yeah, I had to kind of be third person. So I liked Gears of War or anything like that. Call of Duty was a little too much, been first person POV, but yeah, I had to stop. I had a vibe for a while, which was really fun. But then I was like, oh, virtual reality is way cooler than reality and I don't want to exist in reality. So you had to like treat it like drugs? Yeah, yeah. And just go cold turkey?

Yeah, I had to just sell it all. Really? And this is before you started doing comedy? No, actually, yeah. I sold it all when I moved out to LA when I was 21. So I sold my whole gaming collection in order to fund my move out here. So you moved from Temecula to here.

And you'd never done comedy? No, I was doing open mics. Where? Like for two years. Driving down? Driving down from Temecula every day. 2010? Yeah, 2010, 2011.

And you're doing like the mics? The mics. Well, the first time I ever did comedy, well, Kyle from GameStop, my assistant manager, was like, I run a comedy show in Oceanside. I'll give you eight minutes. And I was like, okay, sure. So my first time on stage, I did eight. How'd that go?

Oh, I loved it. It was probably horrible. Was it good laughs though? It was all my friends and family coming to support me. So like they were nice. They were being real nice. You couldn't really gauge. Oh, it was horrible.

My jokes then were so bad. Yeah, what was the area? I think it was like, you know, I would compare seeing a dick for the first time to like seeing Godzilla or something and just do an act out. And it was just so cringe. Surprise.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, keep going. But it was so stupid. But I had fun, I really loved it. And my dad camped out for last comic standing with me and I remember Natasha Leggero was like, that's one of the worst acts I've ever seen.

And I was like, I'm memorable. She's gonna remember me. Oh my God. Really, she said that about you? Yeah. In the audition? Yeah, we had a little pink princess tent and I was so excited to do it.

But rejection really didn't deter me at that point because I had gone through so much that I was like, I'm just happy to be here. It didn't hurt at all. I was like, this is nothing compared to my sister's suicide. Right, that's an interesting notion about grief that on some level you've already been through the worst thing you're gonna go through

and you kind of frame that in your head? Huh, so well, that's interesting. Natasha, who else was on that panel? I just remember Natasha, cause I really liked her. Yeah, but I really liked her comedy. So I was like, wow, like this is exciting. This is the beginning of my journey.

Yeah, yeah. Someone I respect has just shit on me. I don't know, I couldn't take it. Good for you. So that didn't deter you and you didn't get on the show, I guess? No, I didn't get on the show, but it didn't deter me. I actually only started really... Only when I started getting better at stand-up did I start to get really nervous on stage. Who was in the scene? Who were you coming up with?

There was Ali, Ali. Ali. Ali Wei Wong. Yeah. Otsuko Okotsuka, Jenny Yang. Ali was around at the mics? Yeah. Well, in the Bay Area.

I would go down to the Bay, yeah. Oh, where's Temecula? Temecula is near San Diego, but I would do punch line. There were a bunch of Asian comedy lineups that I would kind of do. But you mean, but how'd you get to San Francisco? I drove. That's a long fucking drive.

I know, but I would do a show out there and so I would hit mics all the time. Yeah, because Allie was there, I was there for a couple of years and Allie I remember featured for me or opened for me. Oh cool. Like she was so, she was always very intense. So you're doing mics all up and down,

you would drive hours? Yeah. That's a lot, that seems like so long. I didn't mind it at all. I loved- Who else was there? There's just like- Ah, Otsuko, Katsuko, there was Jenny Yang.

Yeah, yeah. I'm trying to think who else. So there's like a lot of Asians. A lot of Asian women on the scene, yeah. Huh. And where were you doing it here? I don't know, the Ha Ha Flappers, Meltdown Comics, like anywhere I could get up, really.

But did you stick with it? I did until 2018 when I quit because of that stalker. So you're going at it, but alongside of that, it seems to me like you're constantly in training for something, almost like martial arts. Oh yeah, yeah. Oh yeah, when you see me at the gym and I'm like balancing on a bow suit.

What is she preparing for? The end, Mark, I'm preparing for the end. But like, so, but you clearly are doing other things. When did you become savvy? Cause I don't know when it happened to, you know, posting your own videos, web series, movies. When did that start to happen? So I started doing YouTube when I was 22 or 23

because of the frustration of, I mean, you know this, when you're starting out as a comic, you're like kind of doing non-consensual comedy. You're like in a coffee shop or in a laundromat, shouting your jokes at people who are not there to listen to you. And it felt really uncomfortable and I was like, well, what if I just make a fucking YouTube video and put that online and someone will click it and actually want to engage

with me? And so I was doing that in parallel with standup and back in the day and like- Was that at the beginning of it all? Yeah. It was like I'd been doing standup for maybe a year or two at that point. And there was almost no Asian representation in traditional media, so all the very first YouTube stars were actually Asian descent.

So you had like Community Channel or Michelle Phan or Ryan Higa, like all of these Asian people in different verticals, like beauty or lifestyle or comedy because we couldn't see ourselves represented anywhere else. So it was actually quite easy to garner an audience on that platform because every Asian was like, oh my God, look, it's someone who looked like

the same feeling I had with Margaret. Yeah, it seems like if you can get yourself out in front of your group, whether it's Asians or whatever, that they'll show up. Yeah. They'll come see you. Yeah. And they did?

They did. So you saw a change in your comedy audience from the YouTube stuff early on? Yeah, I think I headlined way too, like before I was ready. I was not a great comic by any means. But you could sell tickets. But I could sell tickets, yeah.

So I had like, I went on a tour throughout North America where I was headlining and- Clubs? Yeah, or like sometimes colleges, clubs and colleges. All Asians. Oh really, and they would come out? Oh they would come, the Asians come. And did you feel you knew you weren't ready

to be doing those sets? Yeah, I think there's an idea you have of like, I know what great comedy is, I've watched enough of it, and I know what I'm saying is not it. And I don't have the technique, and I don't have the skill to get there yet, but I'm also not gonna get there unless I just keep getting up. So there was a frustration

definitely on my end where like I really loved doing it, but I knew the material wasn't quite there. Yeah. Yeah. And then you had to stop? Yeah. So you were headlining and you're doing, had you done TV and movies by that point? Yeah, I'd done, I'd done a couple of shows. Yeah. Yeah. Like Disney Channel stuff, MTV, yeah, co-star stuff. What was the biggest part you had? In my career or back then? I think probably, most people know me from Ant-Man. I had like a bit part on Ant-Man.

Oh yeah? Yeah. That was exciting. It was fun, yeah. What was the part? I basically, I don't know, they said, the fan people said I talk about Spider-Man. I'm like, the first person to talk about Spider-Man

in this universe. And I'm like, okay, cool. Oh yeah, so now you're like, you're a important piece of the puzzle. Yeah, it was, I was, it was, it was Crazy Stupid Fine Writer Chick is the title. Oh, really? Yeah.

Yeah. At least they didn't put Asian in there. I know, well, it was Nerdy Writer Chick when I booked it, and then everyone was really mad when I showed up, and they're like, where's the crazy, stupid fine girl? What is this? So why did you quit?

How did that work? So I had a lot of online death threats coming in from what I believed to be one person, and a few years prior, do you know Christina Grimmie? She was a YouTuber who was on America's Got Talent, a singer, and she had been shot by a fan. He drove across the country, went to her meet and greet,

she greeted him with arms wide open and he shot her point blank. And so I had someone online who was sending me messages saying I'm gonna come to a show and I'm gonna shoot you. And so it felt very plausible. What did you do about that? I talked to the police and I'm gonna shoot you. And so it felt very plausible. What did you do about that? I talked to the police and I was told there's really nothing they can do about it,

unless this person actually showed up or revealed themselves as like a burner account. I was told to like increase security on my tour. And so I was doing these shows and really disassociated and having panic attacks on stage and like looking at everyone in the audience, like, is he here? Is he gonna die?

And I was put on some medication to deal with the anxiety, which just made me feel horrendous. Like beta blockers? I was on Lexapros, I was on an antidepressant. That's how they handle it. There's nothing you can do legally. Yeah, so. But maybe we can decrease your fear with medication.

Yeah, because I was like, I can't go on, I was ending shows early, I was like forgetting my material. I was so rattled up there that I wanted something. And then after the show, you're like, is there anyone gonna protect me? How am I gonna get back to the hotel? Who's gonna walk me? That kind of shit?

Yeah, that whole thing. And then it got to the point where I was just like, I don't want this. Alias is at hotels? Yeah, yeah. I was about to say it, I was like, oh no, don't say it, alias. But I just was like, I can make videos at home

in the safety of my home and not deal with this. So that's so fucked up though, but so because you got overwhelmed with the anxiety and the fear that you just stopped booking comedy? Yeah, I quit. And you wouldn't do it here either? Yeah, no, I quit. I just totally quit.

Holy shit. And then you just, that's when, when did you retreat into dealing with mental health issues on YouTube? I had always done it. I had a video go viral called, Please Don't Kill Yourself, which I put out in hopes of people who wanted to take their own life would find it.

And then I kind of talked about like, this is what happens to the family you leave behind or the people who love you. And like, this is what I've gone through. And like, think about anyone in your life who loves you, you're putting them through this if you decide to commit this action that's irreversible. And so I had always sort of put very sincere

mental health messages in my YouTube content. From a personal angle. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, or like parroting my therapist advice or some shit. Right, yeah, yeah. Like anytime I put advice forward, it's always from a qualified source.

It's not my own. But then, I think. Did that pick up? What started drawing the most followers? It was that, it was that video actually is the most viral thing I've had. I think in the same sense of your audience, how you talk a lot about your mental health stuff

and people who have been affected by that really resonate it. They feel seen. Yeah, yeah. So I was doing that in YouTube and making it comedic, but I've made a video a week for 15 years. So I don't really. Still. Yeah. When did you get the book deal?

The book was when I was 27. So, but after the videos. After the videos, yes. So how did that deal work? Did they see the followers and say like, oh. Yeah, oh it was handed to me because they were like, oh, books are a dying art form, let's get the internet people to write them.

Yeah. Yeah. And what was that called? It was called Letters to My Little Sister. And so I imagine that writing that helped you put together the show. Yeah, honestly, no, not really. Well, how'd that book go over? It went well, yeah, I heard it was translated into Korean. They had like a really beautiful Korean variant cover.

It like did well. I think we had a couple of reprintings, but yeah, it was fine. I felt obnoxious. I was like, I'm a 26 year old writing a fucking memoir. This is- This is very specific. I know, I know, but it's like, I was like, this is annoying.

But no, I think I told you when I saw you at the gym, like from Bleak to Dark is one of the reasons where I was like, I think I'm ready to do standup again. Like I had seen that, I had seen Inside, I'd seen In and of Itself, Nanette, like these shows that tackle deeper, darker issues. And I was like, I want to do that. And I think I'm finally at the skill level

of a writer and a performer to do what I wanted to do in my 20s. So then I wrote this hour in the summer of 2023 and then just started going back. Is that recent? Yeah. And what was some of the, how did it feel to get back? Were you doing it in pieces? No, I did it as it's in its entire iteration.

So you just wrote a one person show. Yeah. Were you doing it in pieces? No, I did it as it's in its entire iteration. So you just wrote a one person show. Yeah. And you weren't concerned about, like, did you feel rusty or did you feel? Yeah. I mean, it's sort of, it's an interesting thing to do that, the one person show,

cause I've done it, you know, a couple of times in my life and as a standup, but you, but my chops were pretty in place. But I felt when I did the one-person show that, it's not funny enough. Like when I did Jerusalem Syndrome or the other ones, it was a way to process things and buy you a little wiggle room around laughter. Did you cannibalize any of that for stand-up

and make it funnier? Well, I mean, some of the stuff that was in Jerusalem syndrome, that was a storytelling thing. But yeah, I mean, I don't know if I cannibalized it, but I did, you know, I was able to work out pieces. You know, like, I think that, is any of my shows like that, like any of the specials really like that with that kind of structure?

I had a real hard time honoring the structure of doing a show that's the same every night. Because when I do stand up, even if I'm recording a special, I like to have room to riff or to find something that happens in the moment. So it feels like- Crazy.

Is it? Yeah, I mean, mine's so storytelling based that I feel like I can't. But yeah, I think I've seen you a couple times at this hour and you would shuffle things around and it was really interesting to watch. Yeah. And I just, you know, I need to have that freedom to sort of like find those moments because that's how I write. I mean, you write differently. Yeah, you write on stage.

Well, yeah. Well, yeah, because then it's sort of like, you know, where did that come from? Yeah. And then I have a spiritual experience Wow Your higher power the higher power whatever it is like I don't know I like putting myself in the position to have to be funny like to okay. I'm gonna start talking about this I don't know where it's gonna go. Well, we'll see what happens and then if something happens, I'm like look at that magic but My point is is that you didn't feel confined

by a 15 minute set, a 10 minute set, or even a standard headlining set. You could look at it as this completely other thing. But how did the stalker thing resolve itself? He started showing up to my house in 2020, so I was able to get a restraining order. So I dealt with that in 2020, went to the courthouse and got a bunch of therapy.

So I was finally at a point where I was like, okay, I feel safe enough to come back. Although now there's a new one, but we'll see. What the fuck? What do you think that, do you think it's specifically cause you're a woman or an Asian woman? I think it's both. I think it's also like, I'm an Asian woman

who deals with mental health issues. So there's a lot of people who have like the fetishization, hypersexualization ideals of an Asian woman who deals with mental health issues. So there's a lot of people who have the fetishization, hypersexualization ideals of an Asian woman who is then talking about, oh, these issues, they're helping me and now I have this fascination and this is my savior. Or some of them are thinking, like, this one talks. And she's funny.

Yeah, yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, I don't know. You've talked about that a few times, I think, that fetishization of Asian people. What is that about from your point of view? What is that about? I mean, racism, I guess. I don't know.

I actually was looking into where the trope comes from, Asian women being with white men and white saviorism in those interracial relationships. And I was able to find out that in the 1800s, you know, Asian women were barred from entering the country, except as prostitutes. So a lot of women who would be brought over from China and sold into brothels could only be saved from those brothels if they were married to Christian men. So there's this group of white women who would actually like

take all these Chinese prostitutes and marry them off to like good white men to get them out of these like horrific conditions. And so that's kind of the origin of like the interracial relationship and this idea that we worship white men because we literally were being saved by them from prostitution in this country to start off. Right. And then I think all the war brides too. Yeah. That was the whole other thing. People coming back from Korea, Vietnam.

Yeah. So you got a new stalker. The other one's manageable. Yeah. And you're doing this show. Where do you start working out? Dynasty? I started at Lyric Hyperion.

It was much more intimate, like smaller. It was like 40, 50 people. It's like 90. And then I started moving to Dynasty, which I quite like. And then yeah, then I did a tour in the spring, and now I'm gonna do Edinburgh, and then another tour in the fall.

When you go out on tour, where are you going? A helium? Helium line. You did a helium for what, one night or a run? I did one night. In Portland? Yes, I did Portland. How'd that go?

It was good, it was good. Now is it mostly Asians? A lot of Asians, there's like either Asians, old white men, the white boyfriends of the Asians. And yeah, that's the demographic. Huh. Yeah. And what's the feedback been, generally? It's been really good.

Honestly, I had a couple of psychologists come up to me and be like, the way you handled this was so well done. It's not good. Yeah, it's great. When you do bits about mental illness and the psychologists are like, yeah, that was pretty good. Yeah, we're smart. You nailed it.

Yeah. Yeah, but the hair part was like a bit messy. You didn't love it? Well, no, it was cringy. No, you loved it. But isn't it supposed to be a little like, whoa? It is a little like, yeah, I think it's like a fun little surprise. I know. Well, I mean, you were having fun loved it. But isn't it supposed to be a little like, whoa? It is a little like, yeah. I think it's like a fun little surprise.

I know, well, I mean, you were having fun with it. I love it. But it's one thing to sort of conjure somebody's life and your relation to it, but then to have this horrendous artifact. I don't know if it's horrendous. It's very soft and it's very silky. I think it looks horrendous now. I don't know if it's horrendous. It's very soft and it's very silky. I think it looks horrendous now because I did.

I'm not saying it's bad. I'm just saying the effect of it brings, it's almost like a ritual artifact, right? So you have this piece of the person. And as an audience member, you can't disconnect that. No, I like it because it really makes, there's something about it I think that grounds people into realizing she was a real person.

Yeah, that's true. You know, I'm like, this was her hair. This is her braid that was loft off. I don't know, it's my favorite part of the show and my agent was like, I don't know, it's my favorite part of the show, and my agent was like, I don't know, it's pretty fucking weird, maybe you shouldn't do that. And I was like, if I can't do the hair, I don't wanna do the entire show.

Yeah. I love it. So, so you did Portland, and what are the other venues? How does it work? Oh man, I don't know, I don't have a memory. No, I'm just saying, are they rock clubs? Are they black box theaters? I mean, Portland, helium's a comedy club.

I'm just wondering what the venue is. Usually, well, my team was like, let's put you in like alt venues. So I know I'm doing a lot of those. I do like the crocodile. I'm trying to think what it is. Didn't you just do Chicago? I did Chicago.

I did Dunn Theater. Yeah. How was that? It was really great. Chicago was awesome. Chicago and San Diego were like two of the greatest shows. San Diego, what is that about? San Diego is just down to fuck.

They're down to clown. They are like, whoa! They were like screaming all the dark stuff that I had to build permissions into. San Diego didn't give a fuck. They were just like cracking up. I was surprised the last time I did San Diego. Yeah?

Yeah, just because like I wasn't even going to add a second show and then it sold out. And that's the night I broke my foot. Oh. So I was like walking. Did they love it? Well, no, but I was just walking around on my heel. I didn't know it was broken.

Oh, that's when you didn't know it? You didn't have the cast yet. No, no, no. It was like the day of. So you did two shows with a broken foot? Yes. I know. Hobbling around on my heel.

I knew it was fucked up. Why are you hobbling around? Sit down, Mark. I did, I sat down for a while, but there was a couple I knew it was fucked up. Why are you hobbling around? Sit down, Mark. I did, I sat down for a while, but there's a couple bits I had to get up. So what's the goal? I think I just wanna, my goal would be I wanna sell it to a network and then put it out there

and then from there, I don't know. So you wanna do a special? I wanna do a special, yeah. I wanna sell it. But you don't wanna do an extended run? I will do one once I sell it. I'm doing a fall tour, I'm doing all new cities. And then-

But usually one-nighters? Yeah, unless it sells out really well, then I'll add a second night. Seems like some of them are selling out. Yeah, they're selling out pretty quick. But I don't know, I'm not a real, I like to go to bed early, you know? I'm not really a, yeah, let's be out all night

and get as many shows in as we can. Like I'm gonna be 35, I'm pretty okay. What? You're gonna be, what does that even mean, you'm gonna be 35, I'm pretty okay. What? You're gonna be, what does that even mean, you're gonna be 35, well it's time to rest? Yeah, I need to, I need my beauty sleep. Yeah, but- I want my nine hours.

Nine? Casmark. Women have hormone fluctuations and science says we need nine hours. I can't even get seven, man. Well, take some Ambien, I don't know. Take some melatonin. So the idea, so now are they,

have you had people come out and see it? Yeah. And where are they at? They're pretty good, they're pretty interested, so that's great. I have a couple more networks to pitch to that I'll do post-Fringe, but I'm hoping. What are you thinking, like Amazon, Hulu, Netflix?

Yeah, I think Netflix would be my goal. Netflix would be my number one. That's the big reach. Yeah, most of us. But I don't know if they're like ponying up the bread. That's fine. I'm okay on bread. I've got enough bread.

Right, where'd all your bread come from? YouTube. Really? And then investing. Okay, so how does that, oh that's good. But how does that work? Basically brand deals. So there was actual AdSense, which is-

I've seen some of your, like, you know, look what I'm drinking things. Yeah, yeah, that shit. Although Liquid Death will not sponsor me. Really? I know, I'm really upset. I think I may have done maybe one ad for them, and then they sent me like 100 cases.

That's why I wanna do an ad for them, so I can have unlimited Liquid Death. They seem to be doing all right. Yeah, look, you have one right now. I know. So what are the people that, so it's all ad deals? It's all ad deals, yeah. Usually Squarespace, Squarespace, who's my right now. I know. So what are the people that, so it's all ad deals? It's all ad deals, yeah. Usually Squarespace, Squarespace,

who's my daddy, my biological father. Yeah, ours too. Oh really? Yeah, we love them. Fucking love them. In all my years of working with them, there's only one video, I think I'm the reason that you have,

they have to QC your ad reads now. Cause before you used to just like- What's QC? QC like quality control, like they have to watch it before they approve. Because before, I made this video called here's what I'll do to your dick. And it was for women to send to men

who had sent you an unsolicited dick photo. Yeah. And it was just me like chopping up vegetables or I don't know, throwing zucchini into the sun. And Squarespace was like internally, we love it, but this looks like general mutilation. So we- Not good for the brand.

Not good for the brand. Not good for the brand. And after that they were like, yeah, you gotta send us every video for approval from now on. So over the course of the entire arc of your YouTube postings, you've had just numerous brand deals. Yeah.

And that's where it all came from. That's where it all came from. That and, you know, like acting and voiceover and all that, like a Taco Bell commercial where I was, it was the back of my head hanging up a green screen sign. They used it in every single Taco Bell commercial. So I got mad residuals from that that like paid off my car.

It was great. And what about like other stuff? Like, I feel like you're preparing for combat. Do you do like, have you done like, what are you doing? I do like a lot of like ninja, you know, samurai. Yeah. You know, I'm the chosen one and I've got a train. Do some of that?

Yeah, so that's why you see me on the BOSU all the time. And what was the feature you made? Did you make a movie on your own? On my own, no. No, you never did like a full YouTube movie? No, that's a different Asian mark. I don't know. Why'd you see like, I see some of your stuff No, you never did like a full YouTube movie? Or just mini series? No, that's a different Asian, Mark. Why'd you see like, I see some of your stuff, cause I just, I didn't follow anybody on Instagram,

like eight people. But then like when I had some guy take it over, he's like, he should follow more people. So then I started following you, and I started following a bunch of other people, and now like, I just have to, you know, see what I'm not doing. Oh no. No, but you do, it seems like you do a lot of things

that take the day to do. I'm really good at bulk shooting, I think, at this point. So I'll take two weekends out of the month and I can shoot months and months worth of content. And you write it all? I write it all, yeah. Yeah? Yeah.

And the ads are coming in still? The ads, I mean, I'm gonna milk this baby into the ground mark. That's amazing. As long as I mean, I'm gonna milk this baby into the ground mark. Like, as long as I can, you know? Yeah, well why not? Why not? Just take that money, invest it in a GameStop stock, call it a day.

So you do all the investing, you're a gambler. Not a gambler, no, I do very basic bitch options trading. Oh really? I do like covered calls on blue chip stocks, it's all very conservative. Well it's smart, I don't even know where my money is half the time. Oh no. Well, whatever.

Whoa, gotta get it. No, I mean, I trust the person I have in charge of it. Okay. And I seem to be fine. Okay, hopefully. So what would stop you from self producing? Like if Netflix wanted to, would you self produce it? Yeah, maybe.

Because it seems like that's sort of what they're doing. Yeah, I think they give you like a- Like they'll give you a couple hundred grand. Yeah, they give you a couple hundred grand, you go shoot it. Yeah, and then they'll put it on, see what happens. Yeah. That'd be the good thing, right? Yeah, that'd be great.

So now, Edinburgh, you're just going to run it? You have a theater, you know where you're going to be? I do. I'm doing the show in Tal Pleasance Courtyard. I'm at 5.30 every day, except for Mondays. I'm taking Mondays off so I can go see the castle. So, well, yeah, it's right up the- Yeah, I'm at 530 every day, except for Mondays, I'm taking Mondays off, so I can go see the castle. So, well, it's right up the, Yeah, I gotta go see it. You'll see it every day.

Yeah, I gotta go hang out. Well, that's one day. Well, no, I'm gonna go to the castle multiple times, Mark. Why? I don't know, it's a castle. How often do we get to see a castle? It's beautiful, there's nothing not beautiful about Edinburgh. It's beautiful.

So you're the 530 show at a venue that seats how much? 90. What's it called? Show and Tell the Pleasant's Courtyard. The Pleasant's Courtyard. Yes, upstairs. And then you gotta run around and hope the Scotsman reviews it.

Yeah, actually, press has been going pretty well. Like, I'm surprised. Cause there's like 4,000 shows. Pre-press? Yeah. Like what? Like The Times, they were like, yes, the Sunday, The Scotsman. They already saw it

or they're just excited? Oh, I have like a, they pick like five comedians to put in the newspaper, I guess, when it's your debut. And so they were like, we've picked Anna because she's gone through a lot. Oh yeah. Yeah. Well, maybe you'll have the next Baby Reindeer. Oh my God, one can only hope.

I don't know, I loved Baby Reindeer, but it's like one of those shows where you're like, I love it, never again, never watching it again. It fucking destroyed me. Yeah, it's so intense. I couldn't stop watching it. Cause at some point, you know, like this is real. This happened to this guy.

Well, it's also interesting cause it was two fringe shows put together. And I was like, this is why it feels so fucking sharp. Cause it's like 10 years of his work in one show. Yeah, but to put it into, to make it a series that has that kind of drive in it, and he's a very good actor, that guy. I don't know how he is as a standup,

but he's a good actor. Yeah. I was like, does it, did it resonate with you? Like the stalker portions? Well, yeah, because, you know, when, the stalker portions, but also the portions of his relationship with himself, and then also his, you also his understanding of the stalker

was kind of like crazy. Because I imagine that's so different for you. With me, it's like if I have a stalker, I'm like, am I gonna be raped and murdered? Do you ever feel like that or is there an inherent sense of like, I could punch this lady in the face and I'm fine? Yeah, I don't really think that.

I don't think that they're gonna rape me, but murder is always there. Yeah, murder's't really think that. I don't think that they're gonna rate me, but murder is always there. Yeah, murder's on the table. But also just that, I think the fact about that situation, because I had one parking in front of my house for weeks, is that when you engage him as people, you realize like, oh, there's a problem here. Yeah, yeah.

So, and I know it's not my responsibility, but if you start to look at them as people with a problem, which I think he did kind of, yet his insecurity wouldn't allow him to have boundaries around it, that, you know, what that says about yourself and how you handle that is really the crux of what he was dealing with. And it was kind of like, it was a lot. Yeah, it was really intense. I really loved the portrayal of how he handled that and how you do ultimately empathize with these people,

especially when you can tell they're mentally ill. Oh my God. You know, there is a sense of like, oh, I feel really bad for you, but like I'm also sort of a victim of this situation. And then there's also the whole B story about his sexual trauma know, sexual trauma. Yeah.

Because he wanted to make it in show business. Yeah. Have you had to deal with that? What, sexual abuse? Yeah, like from a man? Well, I've been talking about that babysitter thing. Oh yeah. So you have no memory if that actually happened to you,

like if it ever got to a... Yeah, did it actually happen? Well, what happened was I remember it, whatever is there now, just being in that position in terms of having a teenage boy with his dick out and my brother or a little kid sitting there dealing with that, I mean, that's something. But no, I really believe that it didn't happen.

Did you ever talk to your brother about it? Yeah. Does he have any memories? Well, he remembers it happening, but we're still pretty set on the idea that we didn't, you know, it didn't kind of go through. Yeah. And my dad sort of confirmed that. But like, you know, talking about that, you know, and talking about trauma in general,

like from bleak to dark, you know, and talking about Lynn's death, you know, I didn't, you know, in talking about trauma in general, from bleak to dark, you know, in talking about Lynn's death, you know, I didn't, you know, after you figure out how to make that funny, it takes you into a different zone of your abilities. And so entering this new hour, I was like, well, what have I got that I can process, you know, in a way that would be helpful, but also, you know also put me on the spot to deal with it in that way. I don't feel, and that's the point of the bit,

I don't feel traumatized or victimized, but also I haven't investigated it. So to do it comedically, I think I got the chops for that from dealing with her death. And that's what this new hour is? No, it's just a bit in the new hour. I mean, there's other bits. I mean, that's a heavy bit.

Took a lot to balance. I mean, that's the thing about talking about that type of real shit, whether it's death or trauma or abuse, is that, you know, how do you make it not horrible? Well, it's funny, the first, the two times I saw you at Dynasty, you had flipped that bit in the hour.

And I remember noticing when you had put it in the front half, the audience did not like it. We were like not. It was like too much off the bat. And I think it also came off of like a joke, the new joke you have about Kit. And so it's like back to back, it almost read is like, oh, this is odd.

But in another show, you had put it in the back half. And it also came after your mom and that squinched up lunch bag or something. Well, that was part of it. That's part of the bit. And now I've added the character of the babysitter. Oh, I haven't seen that. Dude, it's crazy.

Yeah, is it killing? It's crazy. Like, it's become this huge thing that goes a place that you could never imagine. Is it him doing the open mic in Alaska? Yeah, right, yeah. Okay, okay, okay. I think you had mentioned that at the show,

but there was no actual act out of what that act is. I'm writing jokes for that. Oh my God, we love it. We love it, we love to see it. Well, good luck in Scotland. Thanks, thanks. Any recs? I don't remember.

Oh, yeah, okay. I mean, like, you're going to be in this, I think the best thing, especially because you're young and sociable, is that you're gonna be around hundreds of- Sociable? Well, you're gonna be around hundreds of performers. And there's gonna be a lot of shows to see.

And you're gonna have time to do that if you choose to do that. Like, there's gonna be, there's gotta be at least, oh, what, 100, 200 shows up there. There's gotta be at least, oh what, 100, 200 shows up there. There's 4,000 this year. What? There's 4,000.

Oh. And then there's also big shows. So there's a lot to do, and I think if you're able to have fun among your peers. We'll see. I mean, I'm a very boring person, so we shall see. All right, we'll break away. Thanks for talking.

Thank you. There you go. That was, I thought it was pretty chipper talk. Kept a nice level about some pretty heavy stuff. Again, if you need support around the issues of suicide or other emotional distress, you can call 988 from any phone and talk to someone at the National Suicide and Crisis Lifeline.

And a show at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival is going on now through August 24th. Hang out a minute, folks. Hey, folks. I don't know if you know about this house that I live in now, but one of the reasons I bought it was that the garage had been converted into a room. There was a bathroom put in, there was drywall put on the other side of the door, and basically it was no longer a garage, it was a room. And I thought, oh well this is amazing, I'll do my podcast in here. And honestly, aside from using it as a place to do the

podcast, this is now a perfect space to host on Airbnb. Now do a little thought experiment for yourself. Think about where you live. Got extra bedrooms, a guest house, maybe your old house is just very comfortable even when you're not home. While you're away, your home could be on Airbnb. It's easy to do and it's a great way to earn some extra cash. Maybe you can cover the cost of your summer vacation or fix that other part of the house that you've been putting off. There's extra money just sitting there. All you gotta do is Airbnb it.

Don't take my word for it, check it out. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at airbnb.ca slash host. Hi, it's Fido. Start the semester with a new phone and a plan full of data without breaking your budget. We have everything you need for an A-plus year. Come check out our special back-to-school offers. They'll leave you with more cash in your pocket for the stuff you love. Select plans even include data overage protection so you can go all out without going over.

Don't wait. Our back-to- school offers are only available for a limited time. Go to Fido.ca or a Fido store near you and save all semester long. Fido. At your side. Hey, people. Sign up for the full Marin today and you get every episode of WTF ad free plus bonus episodes twice a week. This week we just posted more outtakes and extra material that didn't make it into recent episodes. What is it about your character? And either you're just gung ho about minority rule

and imposing selective morality on your fellow Americans who just want to live their life, or you're some sort of religious weirdo that believes somehow that Trump is somehow, you know, forgivable in light of the fact that sometimes God chooses flawed messengers. Sometimes you need a flawed messenger messengers. Sometimes you need a flawed messenger to facilitate what you want to facilitate as a, you know, Christian righteous person. And look, there are other religious movements that are problematic, but someone who is devoid of religion, you know, has to question this deal that you're making. This accepting, rationalizing, and forgiving, probably arguably one of the most morally

bankrupt public figures to have ever been culturally powerful. To forgive that in the name of your understanding of God. God sends flawed messengers sometimes to facilitate his plan. Yeah, yeah, there was a big one that he actually kicked out, Satan. And I would say, and this is not overreacting, this is not, I would say just in terms of what I've read, the poetry, the verse, that really there's been nobody closer to the character of Satan

in my lifetime than this newly convicted felon of an ex-president. Pete To get the full Marin, go to the link in the episode description or go to WTF pod.com and click on WTF plus. And a reminder before we go, this podcast is hosted by a cast. There's a bit of guitar from the vault. I'm gonna be a man. I'm gonna be a man. I'm gonna be a man. I'm gonna be a man. I'm gonna be a man. I'm gonna be a man. I'm gonna be a man.

I'm gonna be a man. I'm gonna be a man. I'm gonna be a man. I'm gonna be a man. I'm gonna be a man. I'm gonna be a man. I'm gonna be a man. So So Boomer lives! Monkey, La Fonda, cat angels everywhere. You