WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1563 - Beth Stelling

Episode Date: August 8, 2024

When Marc saw Beth Stelling’s Netflix special, he knew there was something he found familiar. It turns out they both have a similar process of making comedy out of trauma. Beth talks with Marc about the childhood event that informed most of the way she addresses difficult subjects in her act and how speaking up about an abusive relationship led to a backlash that left her reeling. They also talk about life in Ohio and what it was like to film a comedy special in her hometown. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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All right, let's do this. How are you? What the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fucking adians? What's happening on Mark Maron? This is my podcast. WTF. I'm back up here. Back in Canada. I got here last night. I woke up here this morning. There's a seagull on the top of the building directly across from me. There is a flagpole with a Canadian flag and there is not much going on on the streets. That's the report here from my position at the Olympics in Vancouver. Not a lot. There doesn't seem to be any sporting events at all going on in my my direct vicinity. You know, I know a lot of you guys are watching the Olympics and I don't know what's wrong with me. I really I don't obviously I don't have anything against

the Olympics. There have been times't have anything against the Olympics. There have been times where I've watched the Olympics, some of them, and I enjoy them. But I have not watched any of it. I'm not even sure I know how to get it on my machine. I guess that's maybe the age I'm at. And that can't be true. Of course, I know how to get I know I can stream it. I see where it's available But I just have not watched any of it and I don't know what that says about me It's not that well, maybe I don't care. I don't know, you know, I saw that the opening ceremony

I see the the press on the Olympics and I see some pictures from it and I hear some news stories about it But that is not the loop I'm in sometimes Sometimes I wonder, am I in any loop at all? Am I just drifting away here? Am I untethered? Am I not, it's not that I'm not paying attention. I feel like I'm fully engaged. Oh my God, I think my heart's going too slow. Does anyone know anything about that?

I know I'm in good shape, but heart rate seems a little low. All right, today on the show, I talk to Beth Stelling. She's a comic, and she has a Netflix special. It was on a lot of the best of lists last year. She also wrote for the HBO show Crashing. And I don't know, she's kind of been around. And she knows people I know, and I never really took her in. I don't know why that took her in I don't

know why that happened then I met her why are why how come I don't what how did I miss but anyway I go watch her stuff she's very funny lovely person and it just was one of those things where how I just don't don't know everybody that's that's very clear so look you guys I'm not gonna wrestle with myself here for you I don't know there's that seagull again it's a very interesting thing cuz I'm high up in this building and they're very high and we're not well I guess there's water close by I'll never forget that day man that was a moment never forget that day in Boston when me and my buddy Lance took

mushrooms and set out into the beautiful Boston summer day, walked all the way down through the Commons through Quincy Mackett down into to the aquarium and it was sort of the arc of the trip you know there was a couple of things that kind of culminated and one of them was you know, like a half eaten fried chicken wing or drumstick in its mouth. And I don't know, maybe it was that moment that I lost respect for the seagull.

Maybe, I don't know. I guess it's not on the seagull, but it wasn't appealing. I don't look at them as beautiful birds. Maybe I should't know. I guess it's not on the Seagull, but it wasn't appealing. I don't look at them as beautiful birds. Maybe I should reassess. See, there's a lot of things I gotta think about. We got Seagulls, we got the elections, we got my non-interest in the Olympics,

we've got my low heart rate, which is supposed to be good, but I don't know how low. Yeah, a lot of panic. I gotta get out of my head. You ever seen these videos where people are just flying and then they pull a parachute? Is that a reasonable hobby for a 60-year-old man? You know, that's another downside of watching too many reels.

Yeah, maybe I should be doing that. That looks fun. Fishing, cooking large things and fryers, flying on like little mats and then pulling chutes, jumping off things into water, bungees. Maybe that's why I'm not watching the Olympics. I just, I have a random selection of bizarre sports right in my hand. Folks,'m I'm gonna be on tour a lot All right, and I'm wary to give you dates. I'm gonna get the new dates for everything By next week, but go to WTF pod comm slash tour

And you can get all the dates if you want to see me. I'll have a list of cities for you. We've had to reconfigure all this stuff so I can do this movie in Los Angeles, which I think is gonna be worth it. I know if you're a fan of mine, you wanted to see me, or you're disappointed that we're moving the date, I think you'll enjoy this. I think it's something I need to do.

Between this show that I'm working on now and this movie, I'll be about done. And then we'll do between this show that I'm working on now in this movie. I'll I'll be about done and then we'll do the tour and that'll be it and then i'll just uh, disappear into the uh, not the ether but into another life Wow, is that maudlin and my dark? There's a lot of talk about work-life balance these days, folks, but we all know the real deal.

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and a free digital scale. No long-term commitments or contracts. Just go to stamps.com, click the microphone at the top of the page, and enter code WTF. This is probably no genius bit of thinking here. But I believe that whatever they think about our attention spans, you know, because I'm seeing a lot of comedy specials that used to be you do an hour and now you know you do 40 minutes, 36 minutes, 41 minutes, I don't know. But I'm starting to realize that again with this compulsion to look at one's phone or to jump around to all different things, the

reason that they think that people don't have the attention spans anymore is that they ruined it. It's a direct relationship that we've become so adapted to these technology, to these devices and methods and access that it's literally destroyed the way our brains work. And now with the amount of emotional content

that you can get at all times, it's devious. I've become hyper aware of staying engaged with people and the things around me. Because I'm starting to feel like as soon as I lock into the phone or into a movie or anything else, like I'm all in. It's a very weird thing. I mean, I was on an airplane yesterday and I finished, that's how much I'm flying now.

It's like I can finish movies I started on the flight before. It's a nice thing to be able to do things with a certain amount of comfort and pattern. I've talked about routine a lot, but I was able to watch the rest of Monkey Man, which I watched, and I liked that movie. I don't know what other people thought or whether it got good reviews,

but I liked that guy Dove Patel, is that his name? Good, I thought it was great. And I've become more and more deeply a Jordan Peele fan. I think I need to talk to him again. Because I keep getting clips of the old Key and Peele show. And he's a great director and he's taking this whole different turn, but holy fuck, they were so goddamn funny.

Anyway, about the kind of full engagement of Brain. Like I'm on an airplane, I decided to rewatch Gravity with Sandra Bullock and George Clooney and by the time I got off the plane I really felt that I'd landed from space and I don't know if that's great. Like I had all the emotion she had, you know, the grief mixed with relief with, you know, overcoming challenges and that didn't happen. I did almost nothing on that flight. I just sat there like an

idiot and the guy next to me, I don't know what he had going on, but he had a set of headphones, he had an iPad going, he had his phone going, and there was a map of the United States on one that seemed to be active with states marked off. I don't really know what he was up to, but he looked like a, he looked like a guy that, uh, I don't know. He was, he was working on something, but it wasn't, it wasn't menacing. It just looked like he had moved whatever his nerd hobbies were from home onto the plane. There was a lot going on next to me. Nice enough guy.

And then I get back here, I think, and as a means to, to sort of regroup, I don't know, I guess I'm having some sort of realization about myself. These seem to be happening, not that it matters at this age, but I get back to the, to where I'm staying, you know, and I clean out the fridge Because some things were sitting there and then for some reason I sit down and I watched the tail end of gravity Because I didn't finish it and I didn't want to wait for the plane I was here and I was a little sad that I had to leave my cats and kid and life and come back and you know float So I paid 379 to watch the last 15 minutes,

and she makes it. But then out of all things, I'm flipping around, I watch Manchester by the Sea. So between gravity, Manchester by the Sea, in one day, whenever I'm flipping through on my phone, there's a lot to put in the head, but I had this sort of thought about grief and about the things in our lives that change us forever

and what it means to process them and how it affects the way we engage for the rest of our life and what's the optimum thing. And I don't know, I'm starting to feel like I haven't processed some stuff. And I'm starting to feel that outside of these conversations I have with you, or conversations I have on a stage,

or conversations I have with guests that come into my studio, or pretending to be somebody else in acting, or watching my phone jerk me around and make me have feelings that I might not be processing these feelings in the human world. But maybe I am, I don't know, maybe I think too much. But there's some things I'm not letting in, there's some things that I'm running out of time on.

But there's a moment in Manchester by the Sea where he keeps telling the kid that he's gonna go back to Boston and the arc of it is that he can't handle being there, where he just says, as vulnerable as that character, God, he says, I can't beat it. That whatever was churning inside of him, which obviously was a lot, and whatever was defining him and of him, which obviously was a lot,

and whatever was defining him and shutting him down almost entirely, I would say entirely, was not going to change because he did not have it in him to overcome it. And it's a very powerful thing to think about these things that change our lives, tragedies, or anything. And this idea is that, well, you know, you talk to somebody, you take care of that,

you process this, you got, move through your trauma, whatever, but most of the time, giving the window of life that we have, you're probably not gonna beat it. And you have to work around it or live with it or put it in a place that is manageable or avoid it entirely, which becomes your life. And I think that has a lot to say

about the cultural landscape. If you're shattered or angry or denied something as as a child by life by parents or by whatever the act of of either denying it or or moving that emotions into other things Dictates a lot of the fucking darkness in the world How are you? Good morning. I don't know if this is too heavy for you, but this is what happens when I just talked to you a couple days ago and I'm thinking out loud.

But hey, there's that seagull. Seagull you fly across the horizon into the misty morning sun. Nobody asks you where you are going. Nobody knows where you're from. And you fly in the sky. Never asking why. Little bad company for you, out of nowhere.

Welcome. One of the reasons I have home security is because I'm always anxious about what can happen during an emergency If you've listened to this show, you know I get jumpy about sounds in the middle of the night or what's happening to the house when I'm away We've been recommending simply safe home security for the past eight years as the home protection option We trust and that's because because their 24-7 monitoring means no more anxiety and better sleep, whether I'm in my home or away.

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of receiving an alarm and can even see and speak to the intruders inside your home. Protect your home this summer with 20% off any new Simply Safe system when you sign up for fast protect monitoring just visit simply safe comm slash WTF That's simply safe comm slash WTF. There's no safe like simply safe so look Beth Stelling is a charming very funny and Lovely person we had a good time talking to each other for the first time This was really one of those talks where I'm talking to a comic who I didn't really know that well or at all.

And it was great. Her recent Netflix special is called If You Didn't Want Me Then. She also co-hosts the podcast Sweethearts along with Mo Welch. And this is me having a first conversation with Beth Stelling. On each step with Peloton, from their pop runs to walk and talks, you define what it means to be a runner. Whatever your level, embrace it. Journey starts when you say so. If you've got five minutes or 50,

Peloton Tread has workouts you can work in. Or bring your classes with you for outdoor runs walks and hikes led by expert instructors on the Peloton app call yourself a runner Peloton all access membership separate learn more at one Peloton.ca running. Hi it's Fido start the semester with a new phone and a plan full of data without breaking your budget. We have everything you need for an A-plus year. Come check out our special back-to-school offers. They'll leave you with more cash in your pocket for the stuff you love. Select plans even include data overage protection so you can go all out without going over.

Don't wait. Our back-to-school offers are only available for a limited time. Go to Fido.ca or a Fido store near you and save all semester long. Fido, at your side. I almost went into the, what is it, the bookstore and the records. I just, I just got, not bamboozled, I knew what was happening. I sold some records there and... Good ones? Yeah. Like what?

And I should have gotten more money. I'm doing this thing where I was like doing a bit of a purge. Sure. Okay, so Sarah Silverman had given me some of hers when she was moving. Yeah. And I slowly was listening to them over time. That's been a couple years now. Yeah. She did give me a magnetic fields, like it was a smaller.

Oh, 10 inch? Yep, and three record, 10 inch. And the truth is, I was like, you know what, I'll listen to it one more time, but I don't really want it here. And it wasn't my vibe. 3000 records in there. And now I feel like I'm on the other side of it.

You do? Yeah, where I'm like, what do I do? Yeah, well, that's a lot to get into. But I took them in thinking, as I was walking by, I thought, Yeah, whatever, if I'm not listening to them, I'll just make money. And I didn't do the thing where I just do a quick Google. Look over on Discogs. Yeah, and her body language changed when I set everything down.

She starts looking through it, she calls the other guy over. Yeah. And, and the, her body language changed when I set everything down. She starts looking through it, she calls the other guy over. Like I'm, I can, we're all, we're very perceptive. Like you're kind of. Usually, yeah. Typically. Um, on things that don't matter. Yeah.

Um, and I can see that she's like asking, and then she, when she's like, okay, and she compliments me on my glasses. Oh yeah, yeah. And she's, and then she's like, I can give you 50. And it was for that and a couple other things too, maybe three or four, good records. And I was like, sure. I should have obviously retorted or countered

and said, how about 75? But I didn't do the Google. But I never do the- Well, and was I actually gonna sell it? No. What's it called when you do that? Oh, countering or whatever, or Haggle. Haggle, I'm not Haggle. I'm not a Haggle.

I'm not either. I'm like, just tell me. Someone's like, hey, first time in London, you're 18, $50 for this pashmina. I'm like, thank you so much. Yeah. Shh. I would love to give you all the money I have.

What is that though? I don't know. I mean, like, you know, what does it take to just say like 25? I don't know, but I want it. But I think sadly it's because we want them to like us. Of course. I just switched a joke on stage last night.

Yeah. And it's almost like I was hesitant to do it because I was annoyed by my own behavior. Yeah. But essentially a guy I was seeing didn't like that I drank La Croix. Yeah. This is a couple years back.

La Croix? Yes. That's a real co-dependency problem. Hey, I'm La Croix. Yeah. This is a couple years back. La Croix? Yes. That's a real codependency problem. Hey, I'm a little concerned. Well, first it started with my sugar intake and he said, you know, I'm worried you're going to get diabetes. And I was like, eyes on your own paper.

Yeah. And then he said, you know, the La Croix thing because it makes you burp. And in my head, I'm going with my family. I grew up with all girls. It's like, we're burping all the time. We're burpers. Yes, we are. Where did you grow up?

Yeah, we burp in Ohio. Yeah, yeah. Sure do in Ohio, Jesus. So the joke I came up with a couple weeks ago was like, he's like, I'm worried about, it makes you burp, it's unhealthy. And the joke was like, bye. You know?

And then last night I riffed The Truth, which was like, actually I waited for him to break up with me. Yeah. You know, because I don't want that to be me. And it's like, but when he finally did it I was hurt, but also that's what I wanted. That was kind of a, not really a big punch line. No. You know what, at Largo, so I did three shows last night. And I, you know when you wanna redo it,

but you haven't listened back, so you can't do it perfectly sometimes? Sure. And I hardly ever listen back. I've got hundreds of hours I don't listen to. Oh, of course. I don't know what that is. What, is it all of us though? Because I can't bring myself to do it unless I'm...

No, some dudes do their homework. I don't. I just keep doing things and then you lose things. And then you're like, oh yeah, that was really good. I've lost things that I should have put in a special. Sure, of course. It's like because I, the only thing I take solace in is I go, okay, and this is sort of cheesy,

but it's sort of like, you know, the waves going over and softening the rocks into gems. Like I just have to rely that the waves are going to grab what is necessary. The stuff that you lock into is what you lock into. Yes. A lot of times things happen on stage, it just goes away. And it's never gonna happen again the same way anyways.

That's true. But there's whole riffs that I've done, I've opened with for like 15, 20 minutes, and I'm like, I gotta check back on that. I think there was some good stuff in there. It's just sitting there. And then you forget what city it was in. But trying to catch it though, sometimes it's too elusive.

Sometimes it is the energy. Oh, even when you listen to it? Yeah. Of course. But I had a friend of mine, I just went to dinner on Wednesday with my friend Christina, and she was like, you know, sometimes I think about that thing you said about guys bragging about one night stands,

and your joke about how all I hear is, so no repeat customers. Yeah. And I was like, out and out loud, I'm like, oh, that's pretty good. I was like, where did that go? Yeah, it was just the thing you said. But the truth is I tried it again last night and it kind of doesn't hit.

Yeah, so you knew. So that's probably why I dropped it. Unstinctively. It was just a moment. Yeah. I've had people come up and tell me, like they love this one joke and I'm like, I don't even think I did that on television.

Where the fuck did you hear that? Yeah, I gotta put that back in. Or when people say like, I love that joke and you're like, it's not mine. I don't know think I did that on television. Where the fuck did you hear that? I gotta put that back in. Or when people say like, I love that joke, and you're like, it's not mine. I don't know what that is. That must've been the first guy. I don't know how people do that after shows.

You know, and I don't do a lot of clubs with, you know, just unknown features anymore, local features. Well, I do, but like, where people come up and they're just, they just saw the show, and they're like, that was so funny, where he said, I'm like, that wasn't me. That wasn't mine. There's the, but like, where people come up and they just saw the show, and they're like, that was so funny, what'd you say? I'm like, that wasn't me. That wasn't mine. There's the other, like, people,

I don't know what's wrong with their brains. I know, but doesn't that make you, it makes me annoyed, and simultaneously like, why do I work so hard? I don't know if I feel that. I'm just sort of like, the fuck is wrong with people? There's two people on the show. Separate us.

Yeah, you can't do that? I don't know, man. I don't, you can't do that? I don't know, man. I think the first time we met was the other few weeks ago. Well, that's the first time you met me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I knew you were around, but I didn't know what you did.

Yeah. Like really what you did. I felt your presence for 13 years, but you know. I feel like- Were you around that long? Yeah, I would say first, but here's the thing, I'm gonna ramp, that's fine. I looked at your age, dude, and you know, like I am,

like there's something really wrong with me in that, like for some reason, I can't know everybody, number one. And number two, like, I don't know if it was COVID, but all of a sudden, everyone's younger than me. And I don't know when that, I think it must have been COVID. KATE BALLARD LAUGHS KATE BALLARD Look, but I feel that too. Can I just say, I'm never gonna be the person that's like, yeah, I met you here, here, here,

and you don't remember? No, do, please, I love that. I don't. Somebody did it to me. I'm a senior, you know? Somebody did it to me. You'm a senior, you know. Somebody did it to me. You're like the two behind me. Fine, in this current room. But I was doing that stories show over in Echo Park

and a young comic came up through there in town, they don't even live here. And I was like, oh hey, I go to introduce myself. He's like, we met here, here, here. And I go, and I looked at him, I go, were you on my shows? He was naming festivals. Were you on my shows?

He's like, yeah. You better believe I went home and freaking checked the receipts and texted the freaking organizer of the festival to get the lineup from two years ago. He was not on my show. Oh, well, thank God you know that because I would hate for you to have to carry that with you.

Don't worry, it's still with me three weeks later. Yeah. He did it to Jackie Cation right after me, so at least that made me feel better. Yeah. She handled it, of course, beautifully. Yeah. She goes like, oh, I remember you from the show,

at the thing? Yeah. Okay. And then he pressed further. She's like, yeah, one of the 300 people I meet a week. Yeah. Now, where the fuck did I meet you? Let's call it Elysian Theater a couple of weeks ago. No, I want to know the other time the original time. Yeah

Freaking 2011. What's up, Tiger Lily? Oh my god That was always such a like that was oh, yeah, it almost I don't know how to describe it milling about waiting hours Next no, you're not that kind of thing. So impassive. Yeah, but the truth is it's not like, hello, you know? Sure. I must've just got there.

I moved in 2011. You were like 25 or something. Right, and you were like what, 20? I mean, how old? At the time I was probably 25 or something. Yeah, and I'm like, who's this upstart? Yeah, yeah. Another one. And who's, get out of here,

we don't need anymore. Integrally. How are people still moving here? It's the worst performance situation in the world. Just people eating and a bunch of tables. Yeah, and there's a big gap in front of you, and half of them didn't even know there was a show, but it was one of those alt shows

during the original alt thing where you're like, I gotta get on that. And I'm like, why? I know. What was that other one that, what was that? Well, meltdown was like its own thing. But there was that other one that some woman whose first name was initials ran, JP or PJ or like, I don't remember something like, and she had one at a bar

and they were all very compromised performing situations. And they were the most homogenized audiences ever. Like, you know, like. Same people every week too. There's a room full of guys who look like Jonah Ray. Yeah. But smaller. Which I started to dress like,

well, this is the uniform. Yeah. I'll give it a whirl. I'll try it. But where'd you come from? Hell. I'll try it. But where'd you come from? Hell. I know that. I came from Ohio, but I started standup in Chicago.

So I started in 07. Technically, I tried standup my senior year of college, my freshman and my senior year of college in Ohio. Did you grow up in shitty Ohio? Not the shittiest. I'd say maybe second or third. And I like Ohio. There's a lot of beautiful parts of Ohio. Tons. But like, a lot of Ohio got hit pretty hard,

and I don't mean to be condescending or say it's shitty, but I know there was, that there were some hard times available in Ohio. It's true. And I personally loved my hometown. I grew up in Dayton, Ohio, southwest quarter. Dayton, yeah. Pretty close to Cincinnati. I went to school in Oxford at Miami of Ohio. So I had a lot of great Ohio times. My family's still in Dayton. I love going home.

Pete Slauson To Dayton. Lauren Henry Yeah. Lauren Henry I shot my last special in Dayton. Pete Slauson Yeah. Lauren Henry A hometown special. Pete Slauson It felt like a hometown special. You're very casual about it. And you had some people in the room that were from the old days. Lauren Henry Exactly. Yeah, they were there. That used to bother me. But you know.

Pete Slauson Used to bother me too, but like after a certain point. I just don't care anymore. I'm a full adult. Kind of. I think, but you realize that your parents eventually get a kick out of it. Yes. Especially if you acknowledge them. Then it kind of feeds their, you know, their vanity or their narcissism in my case. Yeah. My dad will take whatever shit I give him. Yes. My dad will say, he's very, it's your comedy,

do whatever you want, it's your life, you talk about whatever you want. Yesterday, or two days ago, for the first time, was in my life, was a tinge of potential pushback, maybe hurt, and it was a reflection of a neighbor saying something to him about it. Oh really? Because he walks around with business cards of me.

Yeah. Your business card. He had them made, I mean. Like I'm Beth's dad? Yeah, but it says it's just like my special. It's like, in fact, I have, this is what I had set, the record label sent him these, which is just like the QR code for my,

the special but on LP. And so now he has like 500 of these he passes out. I'm like, I'm sure people, you have to have repeats here. You're going to Publix, World Gym, and Publix. Yeah. I think everybody knows who I am. Yeah, so anyway, but someone has essentially said something along the lines of, well, you didn't raise her. And I think that hurt his feelings. But the truth is, I grew up in Ohio and my mom

did raise me and my sisters. And we were, I mean, I joke about it, but we were quartered to visit him. But why would that hurt him necessarily? I think he likes to lay more claim. Oh, so, but I thought it would be something like, you know, how do you handle her saying that shit about you? Oh, no, I think she was trying to, he's in charge of lawn of the month in his area. What are you talking about? What year is this? What is this lawn of the month? Holy shit.

It was a huge... Is it the 50s in Ohio? Well, no. He's in Orlando. So my parents are divorced and he lived in Orlando, Florida. Oh, that's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So totally different world. Yeah. And we would have to fly really far, you know what I mean? To go. To see him.

Yeah, since I was six. Well, how did that- I wish I kept those miles, by the way. I know, I don't know what happens miles. Like I'm not, like I'm in a lot of loyalty programs and I always forget to use the points. They don't really go away, but I space it out. I, oops, I don't forget to use the points,

but the interesting thing is obviously for tax purposes You always want to be buying your flights and you know the profile But use your points if you take a vacation, which I don't know if you're a vacation guy not too much But I've done that with amex yeah, you got to do that. You can really I'm surprised you can really do it I've had comics. I ran into the Cara Williams at the airport We hung out in the American Lounge, which'm mostly, I'm like American than Delta. Me too, exactly. Yeah.

And I'll use like, I used to use a platinum Mamex, the platinum Mamex used to get you into American lounge, but now it works at Delta. Oh, nice. Right, so you don't need. But she knew all that stuff and I didn't, so I'm more relating to you in that she was like, oh Beth, you have to use these things.

The benefits. It's almost like I feel like I don't deserve it, or I feel weird in there. But they're not that great. No, they're not that great, but like first class American lounge is all right. And international is great. And some cities are better than others.

When you fly international and you go into those lounges, you're like, holy fuck. There's four restaurants in here. Nine buffets. And I had a really good meal. I forget I was flying back from maybe Melbourne or something. Alex Edelman brought me in on his dinner. Yikes.

So that means you had to listen to that for a while? You know what's so funny? I had him on the show. I think he knows that I can bust his balls. You're not the only one. I dated a comic forever who would just straight up, like, in his face be like, I don't want to talk to you. Yeah.

Well, it's sort of like, are you making this up and then eventually you just don't say that? Yeah. Yeah. You're like, okay, so here we go. All right. He's gonna talk to me about how he was a pitcher in the Red Sox or something like that.

Yeah. Somehow in the green room after a show that he wasn't on. Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, he was there. He was there for all the pivotal moments. Green room? Yeah, yeah, when Pryor came back after the fire, Edelman was there.

What? You were not even, yeah, okay. I watched Pryor for the first time during the pandemic. That's crazy. Yeah. I just was scared of Live from Long Beach in 1979. Oh, later one. That first one's the one.

Really? Yeah, the Live from Long Beach. I remember that was sort of like he's coming back. It took him a couple of, he had a problem with that. He shot that twice. Oh, okay. But that live in concert from like whatever it was, I mean, it must've been what, 77 or something.

That, where he's wearing the red shirt, that one's crazy. They're all pretty good. Especially for what we do. Because he's got a lot of human-ness. And a lot of stories. But so, okay, so you're in the lounge with Alex Edelman. Tell me about the meal that you were gonna tell me about. I don't even have a story about that.

But it was just impressive. I didn't know that was available at airline lounges. Oh, it's crazy. Yeah, no, they really, if you're going international, oh, but here's what I use my American points on, to pay for the lounge. Yeah, maybe I should do that. Because like, you know, runs out.

That's a good idea. Yeah, because when I go and they're like, oh, your thing ran out, I'm like, well, just, you know. Use my points. Yeah, let's get this going. I think it was like, I looked it up once, in fact, in the last couple weeks, because I don't normally have a long layover.

You just couldn't take the hit that you didn't know what was going on. It's like 7,500 points for one day, though. No, get the year. Okay, fine. It's probably 150,000 points, but I mean. But that's a lot of points, because you could fly somewhere.

I think I might have used my points to go, I'm not kidding. Somewhere far. Oh yeah? Maybe Buenos Aires. You went to Buenos Aires? Last December. Just for fun?

Mm-mm. I tried out for the US Women's Masters Field Hockey Team last year and I made the team and then I played in the Pan Am Continental Cup in December. I have a question. I'm just saying like percentage wise at a women who play field hockey when they're younger, who sticks with it? I mean, what is the percentage on that? A lot.

There are incredible field hockey players in this world. I'm not saying there aren't. But I just remember when I was in world. Way better than me. I'm not saying there aren't. But I just remember when I was in... So many better than me. Yeah. I remember there was a team when I went to a kind of not a very impressive private school in Albuquerque. It was like the second... Out of the two, it was number two in Albuquerque, New Mexico. It used to be a girls' school before it became just another private school,

but they had a field hockey team and we played too. And those sticks are menacing. Menacing. And then ripping those balls at your ankles. You better have worn shin guards, otherwise you're gonna get a big mark. Yeah, I don't remember really what happened. I know it didn't last long. I remember having a huge crush on Sam Donsky in junior high. The Donsker?

Yeah, and we played field hockey in gym class, but I'd already been playing since third grade. So I was sort of like, oh, here's my time to shine. Yeah. And he was being sort of playful, like, you know, I'm gonna get ya. I cranked it, it hit him in the ankle. I like almost still feel bad.

I can feel the moment. Did it break it? It didn't break his ankle, but it blew it up. I mean, he was limping for a couple days. Oh yeah. That went wrong. He'll always remember you. I saw him at the reunion.

I know him and his wife, they're so sweet. What reunion? What year? 20th. Yeah. At least he went back with a special. Time flies. That's true.

I bet you thought, like, if I don't have something, I can't... In fact, that Sunday I did a hometown release at the Neon Movie Theater. Oh, good. So everybody at the reunion came. Kind of new. Oh, good. I was there really to promote, you know. Sure. I went to like a 25th or something. I don't remember. It wasn't that long ago. Maybe it was more. But it was clearly organized by exactly the people that you would assume

would organize it. And I didn't, it wasn't that I didn't like them. They were just sort of those were the in crew. You know, like the girls who were either cheerleaders or what, so there was a very limited reunion. And you know, the jocks were there and I just like how they all blow up. They just, they're just, you're like, oh my God. Look what happened to you.

You know, there's sort of a schadenfreude there. But you know, I went and I was sort of known, but one of the women was like, so you wanna do comedy? You're a comedian. Oh, I know. And I was like, there's no way. No.

No way, even, there's no way. Cause like, it all gets triggered. Even though you can look at the jocks and be like, ugh, look at them, they're still like, I'm not going to put myself in a position to feel embarrassed in front of them again, which was my every waking moment. No.

No. No, I agree. They're like, if you want to do a set, I absolutely do not want to do a set. I appreciate the gesture. It's kind of you to even offer, but oh, no. Because the instinct would be to do. What would I talk about?

I'm not doing my act. Right. Well, the instinct, I think, for most people would be to kind of do, like, corporate-style crowd work. Like, hey, there's Chris Russo. What happened, buddy? I know, but I don't want to do that. I don't know how to do that in that context without being too mean. I don't know how to do it in general.

I'm not a roasty-toasty. Me neither. If I'm, like, swinging insults, it's because I feel cornered and attacked. Yes. And, like, there's no joy in it. Or I have an extremely drunk woman or man interrupting me where I'm forced to say something. Like lately there's some like real old style Marin coming out in those moments.

Really? It's a weird thing when you've done it as long as I have and you've been different versions of emotional on stage and I used to be pretty angry. Um, but there were, it's just happened, dude. It was in, I don't remember, but there were two women up front from Canada. They were excited.

And, you know, I said something and they were both like, yeah, babe, ba-ba-ba-ba. I was like, okay, you know, and then it's a huge, it's a theater, so you gotta repeat it and, you know, okay, good. And then I'm just, uh, you know, and then it's a huge, it's a theater, so you gotta repeat it and you know, okay, good. And then I'm just going through my act

and one of them starts gammering again, and I just went, you have to stop talking now. And it was one of those moments where the audience was like, and I'm like, okay, so you saw the real me, how are we gonna move forward? Yeah, yeah. But the thing is even that is really not bad. And you know that.

I know that. But it's just, I've been there, I've learned the lesson, of course, different ways. I've learned it from watching other comics. I remember opening for a comic, Zany's in Chicago, which I don't play anymore, and just flipping out on somebody that was ordering a drink. I actually have also done a similar thing.

I kicked people out who were ordering a drink, and then I couldn't really recover. There was, so I've had these moments, of course. I'm never like screaming at somebody. I've not kicked someone out, and then the following show over-corrected by kicking other people out. So.

I had someone kicked out last week. I've had them, in the month of March, I think I had three kicked out. This guy was hostile, and it came out of nowhere. And I just, you know, and there's like 900 people in the room and I'm like, okay, so what's going to happen now is you're going to get your money back and you're going to be escorted out. Okay?

Great. And that was that. I'm glad you did that. Some guys stayed yelling. It was near the end. It was a closing bit. I've been toying with two different closers and sometimes on the late when I don't feel,

if they're super drunk or tired, I revert to the shorter, I just end a little quicker and it's the shorter bit at the end. And he starts yelling. And then at the end, I get through the bit, and then I say, who was that yelling? Is he still here? And someone goes, he's still here, like that.

And I go, what did you wanna say, sir? Nothing. Of course. I press him. I'm like, we're not gonna. Nobody's leaving until you fucking say it to my face when I'm not talking. Yeah, yeah, and he didn't? No.

I think it was, some girl replied to me on Instagram later like, oh, that guy you were curious about was yelling about you hating men or something. And if he had even listened or let me continue with that bit, I'm quite literally like drawing from, I guess I would credit like bell hooks, the will to change. I'm literally drawing from that feeling.

So I'm like, yes, I like, I love men, I need men and I want more for you. I want you to be full thinking, human, feeling lovely beings. I'm tired of believing. Yeah. That's another part of the bit, which is like, instead of, you know, everybody hated the believe women,

you know, rallying cries, and I said, well, we should have riffed it out with you guys, and we might have come up with something gentler, like starting to think we shouldn't believe men, and that would have centered you guys, and you wouldn't have watched that. Longer hashtag, yeah, yeah. I think that got minimized to just gaslighting.

Which is an interesting concept, gaslighting. Because I tried to do a bit about differentiating between, like the word gaslighting has very real implications about something very disturbing. But I used to try to do this bit where some people were just lying. They were just lying. It's not full gaslight. It's just a maneuver. True. It's not full gas light, it's just a maneuver. It's true.

It's true. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, everybody lies. And the other thing about that whole thing is like, more so than not, if somebody's breaking up with somebody, they got something else going on. Yeah. True.

Right? It's human. A lot of those sort of like declarations or lines drawn I was going on. Yeah. True. Right? It's human. A lot of those sort of like declarations or lines drawn take out the human element. Yeah. And also, like, let's be real, there are many terms circling online. It's so funny because even trigger, right, is almost triggering. Yeah.

I'm like, trigger, gaslighting. There's a lot of words that circulate where it's like, do we, are we all on the same page? Is it so clinical in a psychology way feeling like, do we all have the right interpretation? Yeah, I've been working on just dealing with the idea of trauma, you know, fairly profound trauma. But, but sometimes like profound trauma is not the most traumatic thing that you've experienced. So I'm trying to deal with the idea of, like, you know, you decide which traumas really have the most effect on your life, and it might not be the worst one.

Yeah, it's true. But you might just be compartmentalizing that and eventually it will become the worst one. You know, I mean, sometimes I just go, I know it's not true, but I'm like, oh, I thought I dealt with that, or I thought I was healed. You know, it's like the fact that you think you could work out once a week and then be in shape the rest of your life. You know, the mind is a garden and you have to weed it,

and that's frustrating. Because I think I've worked through certain things, then I go, wow, it's still haunting me. Is it haunting you, or is it just sort of like a component of your emotional makeup? Do you know what I mean? I don't, I mean like... You're still acting in relation to it. Is it haunting you or is it just sort of like a component of your emotional makeup? Do you know what I mean? I don't, I mean like...

You're still acting in relation to it. So that's kind of haunting. Yeah, yeah, I guess you're right. I don't love that description that I gave it. It's just, it's still affecting my life in a negative way. Oh yeah, the wiring. When I thought I was over it. Right, and then all of a sudden you're like, oh my God.

But, speaking of trigger, it's like something comes up and now I'm off to the fucking races. And I don't wanna be like that because I don't wanna overreact and make something that it's not. But what if it is that thing that hurt me before and I'm an idiot again? And then I go, okay, well then you're just an idiot again

and that's fine. You know, you'll accept that and the consequences that come with it. And he's like, but I don't want that to happen. But that's the process. Cognitive choices. I don't know, the thing about trigger that's weird to me is like, you know, I remember,

like, I don't know if you can identify it, but some things make me uncomfortable. But my brain was always like, I was always pretty uncomfortable, right? So it was all relative. So when I was uncomfortable, I'm like, well, I just gotta kind of take it. Yeah.

And like when it comes to stand up, and like there were definitely people, I guess, that trigger me or that I'm uncomfortable with, but it informs something else. It doesn't make me go, they have to shut up. I have to leave. But I'm just sort of like, all right, that's happening. Yeah. And, you know, I feel this.

And now, you know, now it's my issue. Right. I don't know. I've gotten a little weird about that. I'm trying to sort of figure that stuff out and move through it on stage by talking about trauma. Yeah. Not to help my trauma, but just to sort of like

begin that type of public discourse about it. Where it's not, you know, where it's not inspiring, but it's sort of like, but I'm okay. Yeah. You know, I'm a little fucked up, but I'm okay. Right. Yeah. I know. I'm still functioning in the world. I mean, the truth is also, it's just so many, it's a multi-pronged approach. So many aspects contribute to your wellbeing.

Yeah. So if one drags, then you gotta check in on that. And I don't know, it's not just one thing typically. You spend a lot of time on this stuff? Yeah, I feel like I have. Sometimes of course I look back and I go, I wish I could go back to the times where I felt fairly unscathed by the world. Where I had, where childhood stuff was the only thing

that I knew was there. Right. But it, where I didn't think that that was gonna be a big effect on my life. And ultimately I was actually just like a magnet being hurled at a fridge being told not to stick. And I don't think that's so so then when I stuck and it happened, I'm like, oh wait, I didn't escape it?

Yeah. Well, that's the weird thing you realize that there's something about, and this happens, I think, depending on how you're wired or what the hell happened when you were a kid, but I know that I'm this guy and I've pushed back against it is that if you're denied some sort of thing by whether it's the way your parents brought you up

or they didn't or through trauma, is that you're an emotional mark. Like, and you can't, it's like this Burroughs line where you can't hide the mark inside, right? So you're going to end up honoring that shit because you're wired that way. And that's harder to, you know to kind of put a fucking boundary on. Because when you put the boundary on,

everything feels like, well, this is not really, doesn't have the kick. You know, is there any way I can have the unhealthy thing, but still be good? I know, it's always like, you know, you look at past partners or, you know, and it's almost just like to me, I always picture it like we're just scratching each other's bad itch. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Well, there's that difference between drama and intimacy, that thing. Yeah, I don't know. Well, what do you track your, the most traumatic thing that you can see? Not an event necessarily, but the contours of what defines you. I mean, it's in the special a bit. Yeah, I would say, from childhood to adulthood, and then an added layer would be probably intimate partner abuse.

The fear of that happening, and I didn't think it was really there, but ultimately you would be hurt by the partner you've chosen. Did you grow up with that? Yes. Yeah. My dad struggled with mental illness, and in a very traumatic event of our childhood, did have a plan to kill my mom and kidnap us.

What? So that was as a child. Did you talk about that on stage? I've never, no one really knows about that. Oh. How'd you find that out? You're welcome. Thank you.

This is gonna go huge. This is huge. Oh my God, it's gonna change your life. But. How did I find out I was there for it? He said it? Oh no, I mean, he attempted it and was in jail and my mom was in the hospital. We had to live with our grandparents.

Like it was a, I was there. I was three. Oh my God. And my sisters were two, of course. They're younger? I'm the youngest, yeah. So about three... So you all saw this happen?

Seven and... eight. So you all saw it happen? Mm-hmm. Yeah, my sister, my oldest sister called 911. So he didn't get to kidnap you? No. Because the attack.

Because the police came. Wow. How badly hurt was your mom? and get to kidnap you. No. Because the attack. Because the police came. Wow. How badly hurt was your mom? She spent a while in the hospital healing. Oh my God. Yeah. And like I said, live with our grandparents,

which is also a very big part of my childhood and how I ended up the way I am. Like just, my grandpa was a World War II vet, not in combat or anything like that, but that era and depression era, very strict. You know, like, being taken from my mom at three and then having a place where I can't touch the walls and I can't suck my thumb and my blanket is like,

he threatens to wash the car with it and, you know, we could only use a certain amount of toilet paper and everything was like, you know, like so many. Yeah, yeah. Boundaries. Rules. So oftentimes, like there's just, there's always

gonna be reflections of this in my adulthood. I think sometimes I've looked at people or friends, partners who are like, well, I treat you this way because my dad's dead and I'm like, you're a grown man, get over it. Yeah. You know, so there's very much a part of responsibility that comes with growing up and not pushing,

putting these things on other people. Yeah. So I felt that I had, I felt, I feel grateful for my childhood. My mom did her best, I think she's amazing and strong. When did you get back with her? How long were you with your grandparents? I can't remember the exact amount of time,

maybe like eight months or something. Yeah, oh my God. And, um, that was tough to be away from my mom that long. At three, yeah. Yeah, yeah, so, and then to be put in a place that was so rigid and then we didn't see our dad for a while and of course when we did, there was like, there's so much drama in that,

but essentially my, I don't even know where to start because it's so much is all. Like, you know what I mean? Like, there's so many things. But how do you start, how does one negotiate as a family how to reengage that guy? Well, okay. So, it's my story and it's also so many other people's stories.

As an adult, you start to go, okay. It's not that I'm hesitant to be like, because I've never been, especially as a standup, it's like, well, I'll say my story and my dad has given me that permission and my mom. I've talked to at least one other person that was kidnapped by a parent. Really? Yep.

Well, he didn't get to, but we eventually, here's the thing, my mom, because he had been struggling with mental illness for a while, and my mom actually did not file for a divorce. It was him while she was in the hospital. And so I think she wanted us to have a relationship with him. Did she press charges? No.

She wanted us to have a relationship and I think she wanted him to get well and seek treatment and that was not really, his family and father was a doctor, sort of basically got him out of everything in a way. So she- And paid and had the money because he had been running a credit card debt.

There was a lot of erratic behavior. So she saw what happened as a mentally ill event. Yes. Do you? I got, it's such a tough thing. I mean, right, because I didn't really have a choice. I'm just being sent, like we had some visitation through like, with a mediator.

Yeah. I remember those experiences to be very strange. She had already, but by the time I saw him again, he had a wife. So we're seeing him again and he has a new wife. Oh, this is crazy. And she is an alcoholic and very much, her motto in life is next page.

So perfect for him. Uh-huh. And... They still together? Mm-hmm. Wow. Yeah. And, and it's tough, right?

Because when you say alcoholic, I think so many people are offended by that. If they have, that's not something they've chosen to like face or deal with. Sure. It seems like some sort of... Yeah. Are they? What? Offended by it?

I feel that my people who I've known and love, who struggle with it, don't like, not all, of course. Some are in recovery and some are like, I'm an alcoholic. And then others who are either stopping some way on their own or whatever. Or they don't think they're an alcoholic. It's an insult to them.

Sure, sure. And I think too... Aggressive own. Yeah, yeah. Whatever. Or they don't think they're in a car. It's an insult to them. Sure, sure. Yeah. And I think too- Aggressive denial. Yeah. Yeah.

But I mean, we witnessed it, we lived it. Yeah. So we know, I know that to be true. Yeah. You're sober? I'm not. I'm not. I mean-

You never had that thing. Thankfully not. Well, that's pretty, that's intense. So then he goes to Orlando and you just, from an early age, despite what happened, you've had a relationship with him, and it's been okay? It's strange. I think I have to, like, result, or, you know, I talk with my oldest sister, who was present, you know, we all have this different

experience and interpretation of it, because we were different ages, and have more memories, understanding of it. Yeah. And I think my oldest sister's very much, like, has a, he's sort of in an alternate reality. I don't think he's, he has admitted it. Like that's the thing, I don't even know how to,

he was diagnosed with manic depression, is what it was called. And you know, he didn't like the medication he was put on. No, I had, my dad was manic. Yeah. And so it's just a tough thing. Like we, Mo Welch and I, one of my best friends

and a comedian, we started a podcast together recently. We called him on maybe the first episode. Because Moe directed my special and people are, stand-up can sometimes only cover so much. I mean, I've taken it to dark places for sure. And that took even more work for me to be able to do that on stage about my own experiences. And so we call him, and of course,

the whole studio is enamored with him. He's so sweet and, you know, like, you know, and it doesn't, people aren't all one thing. Oh, no, no, no, you're wrong, he's evil. You know, that's not the correction. But there is so much more to it. Sure. So, and I think my mom was on the side of,

I'm not gonna say anything bad. This is, the court is ordering you to see him. I want you to have a relationship with him. Meanwhile, him and his wife, we would hear sometimes mean things about my mom was on the side of, I'm not gonna say anything bad. This is the court is ordering you to see him. I want you to have a relationship with him. Meanwhile, him and his wife, we would hear sometimes mean things about my mom. And it didn't much make sense. But kids are so smart and very intuitive. And so we always knew.

Well, that's the thing I've realized in dealing with this stuff is that even whatever they're trying to hide is going to, you're going to absorb it. Yeah, whatever the underlying thing like, well, I'm not going to do this in front of the kids, or I'm not going to share that part of my life, it all goes into you because you're wired by their brain. Not by their experience. So, you're going to be given the same fucking processing machine that they have, even without knowing any of the behavior. Yeah.

And then all of a sudden you're struggling with these things and you're like, why? And it's because, well, oh yeah, then you find out later, like, oh, they were all fucked up like that. Yeah. So nothing gets hidden. No. And it's like tough to make sense of,

because it's like one of those things where it's like, there's no part of me that's like, okay, well this is a deep, dark secret. But then it's also like, you know, you don't wanna be the person at a party, how are you? I've been raped. You know?

Right. So you go, okay, well where is the time and place for it? And of course my mom has interpreted sometimes my early days of standup as like therapeutic for me. Yeah. And I always had jokes about it in him. And I'm sure it's been complicated for her as well. I mean, that's the other thing you got to take into consideration is like,

how much do you want, what are you willing to risk in your current relationship with these people by sharing your side of the story? Right. Yeah. And to make what funny? And that's the thing that came up even recently. He said, oh, well, she said, you know, well, you didn't raise her,

and that you could tell he felt away about that. You could tell he felt away about that. But even like his side and perspective of things was, my mom was having an affair and all these things. So he, instead of like, hey, let's get a divorce and separate, it's I'm going to kill you and take the girls to Florida, where his parents had moved and sort of almost abandoned him in a way.

Because we were all in Ohio. But as my dad's upticking and quitting his job as a teacher, going to work at a gym, and running up credit card debt, and buying a jeep, and all these things, yes. And my mom's just sort of trying to ride the storm out, she's getting an extra job, she meets someone at that second job who,

for her, I think felt like a friend. Yeah. Maybe someone to talk to and figure it out. And he was involved in the church, which is a whole nother aspect of this too. Yeah. And my dad was very much like, well, she's cheating on me.

And I think his own father contributed to those feelings. Yeah. And so, again, even if my mom was, and I've talked to her about this as an adult, she's like, I wasn't. You don't kill someone for that. Pete Slauson You don't really kill someone for anything. Anna Sussman For anything, yeah, ideally. Pete Slauson Killing's bad.

Anna Sussman Yes, it is. Pete Slauson It's always been bad. Anna Sussman You know, that's something we kind of want to just state here on the WTF podcast. Pete Slauson If there's anything you come away with from this talk, killing, yeah, we're against the killing. Yeah. Well, it's pretty fascinating. Yeah.

Because you do talk about, in the special, you talk about the Christian thing a bit, but you talk about, you know, you do talk about him as being a peculiar guy, but it's, you know, it's mostly about raccoons. I know. And think about that. So when you, and he also has a wiener dog I don't talk about. He treats for him like a child. That's where you're drawing the line? I'm drawing the line at wiener.

You don't wanna talk about my dad's wiener. He would love for us to talk about his wiener, honestly. But, you know, let's be real. He didn't necessarily get all that time with us. He's gonna deal with animals, his wiener dog. He brushes his teeth, he wipes its butt, he takes it on 17 million walks a day. It's his baby and it's like, and animals can't give notes.

Yeah, no, yeah. Yeah, they keep their mouths shut. They don't talk back, they don't have history. They die. If you feed them lunch meat, which he did. He died? He's had several wiener dogs, but yeah, he felt like he was kinda doing a good thing

by giving extra nice lunch meat, and it's very high in sodium and bad for their digestive tract. Oh, good to know. Yeah, stop giving him the cats. I'm pretty on top of the cat health. But the truth is too, so my mom did go on to actually marry that guy that my dad thought she was cheating with,

so that didn't contribute to his any thoughts on that. And that marriage ended up ending, but I think that was someone who was there for my mom, and it makes sense that she would sort of go towards that person afterwards in a time of recovery. Well, that's sort of what I'm saying. People go to where it's warm, is what my ex-wife, my second ex-wife, used to say.

God, oh, her ex-wife. Jared Sussman Well, they go where, you know, like, she taught me a lot and, you know, in our relationship was, you know, I was newly sober and I was out of my mind and emotionally untethered and unhinged and I, you know, and I've made amends about it and I feel terrible about a lot of it. And, but like, she's the one who introduced me to sobriety and for someone of feel terrible about a lot of it. But she's the one who introduced me to sobriety and for someone of her age knew a lot of stuff. You know what I mean? And when she did leave me, I mean, she left me for somebody, but it was over the years I've realized, good for her

because I had a lot of fucking work to do and I was a monster. So, but people do want to be set up or have somewhere to go. Yeah. You know? Of course. I mean, I think that was a pattern for me in my 20s. I mean, just in dating wise. Yeah.

Because after that happened in childhood, it's like, I, again, it's sort of like, I had so many positive things about my child. My sisters and my mom and I were a unit, you know? It's like, Stelling, Party of Four. You know, we're- Well, it seems like there was something grounding you. I mean, you did a lot of things.

You weren't like some weird wallflower. We all were. Like, you know, I think we all played field hockey. I did speech and debate. I did the plays. My sisters were in the musicals. That's great. That's amazing.

The sisters ran track. They're amazing people. Your mom must've been amazing. She is, yeah. And I can't even sometimes imagine how she did it, truly. She was an elementary school music teacher and then she was never, she shared it as an adult later, I remember her saying something like,

sometimes I only had seven bucks to get us to Friday. You know, and I loved Taco Bell. Like, there's, I didn't- Worked out. It all worked out. But, so I felt, you know. Did you do that on stage? No.

That's funny. That's just a joke that wrote itself, right? Yes. Like, she never told us that she always had seven dollars to get us through Friday, and I didn't, I loved Taco Bell. I didn't. I didn't.

I loved Taco Bell. I didn't. I didn't. I didn't. I didn't. I didn't. I didn I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie.

I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie.

I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie.

I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I was intimately hurt where, and then I think to speak back, to call back to our initial entry into this, it was like those two moments for me, it was like, oh my gosh, not like, oh no, I'm my mom. I love my mom.

But I felt like, oh my gosh, I thought I avoided this. How am I involved with someone who would hurt me in this way? And then when I, being a comic, the way I sometimes felt is I'm so forthcoming. I'm like the youngest of the girls, like ask me something, I'll tell ya. It's taken so long to be like,

oh, you don't have to say anything. But I think for me as a comic, it was like, well, I'm holding a megaphone, so if you pinch my butt, bleep, I'm gonna squeak, and everybody's gonna hear it. So when that happened to me, I felt fine being like, I'll say something about what happened. Sure. And I was very vocal about that and it kind of in this way spread through the comedy community, news outlets sort of picked it up. I was just basically saying like, hey comedy community,

this person is probably not well and dangerous. And so many people who knew me over the years and know my character, oh my goodness, Beth. Like, how could you get involved with somebody who would hurt you in this way? It's like... Well... I don't know. Let me tell you something.

In 15 years, I'm gonna tell Mark Maron. But... Well, that's interesting because your first thought, even in being the victim of a situation, was like, this guy's not well, and not like, that motherfucker. No, right, and there is so much ass sometimes of,

victim isn't, again, speaking of words, doesn't bother me. Some people would rather not say that I'm not a victim. There's this thing, I started working with the YWCA in my hometown after things, and Monique is one of the women there who's like, I'm not a victim, not a liar, I'm a survivor type thing.

That's sort of how she feels about it. But it's one of those things where I go, I wanted, you're almost expected to have compassion for that person who's hurt you. Because if you are going to say something, and I've learned this, of course, after I received a lot of love and understanding, but also, of course, blowback and attack and... Well, people want, you know, they want a cause. And it seems like what you were doing was

warning people, which is what you should do. But when it gets out in the world, it becomes a cause. And then, you know, justice has to be served in that way that Pylon Justice is served. And that was my own, I don't even wanna call it a bad experience, I remember someone asking me, do you wish you hadn't said anything? And part of me of course says yes, because I know I helped people, I'm gonna have physical representation

of helping people, for sure. There are people in my life who have come to me and said, I saw that, thank you, help me do this, all these things. So I'm grateful for that. But it hurt me badly. And also many women, there was women before me who came to me and said, he also hurt me.

There were women after who didn't wanna say anything. And I'm like, I'm so sorry, I don't wanna say anything. You don't have to say anything at all, I wish I hadn't. But there is sort of a thing that happened of me running from that. Right. Because I almost- From having said it.

From having said it. Right. Because I wanted to just be a good comic. Right. And not have, oh, that's the one that- Yeah. Right. Whatever.

I just want- Either side of that. Yes. Or sort of like, you know, there's so many attacks people get if they come forward about a man hurting them. But- Yeah. Oh, you're for attention. It's like, yeah, I didn't do that for maybe medical attention.

But I had felt like at that time, I had my Comedy Central half hour coming out. I was like, so I can prove that I am good at what I do. I don't need this. I'm my own thing. Well, it's sad that you would even have to think about that. There's so many things you think about as it unfolds though. It was a terrible time.

Yeah. And even as a comic, I can relate it to that, which is like as you're building your crowd, you know what it feels like early days of headlining when no one's there to see you. And if you're not there cup of tea, we'll fucking buckle up for the next hour, you're gonna hate me.

Right. And that feeling for me of like, 44, 59, I'm done. You know, I gotta get out of here. And it felt like suiting up in armor. And that's how it feels like to come forward about something like that, where you have to be like, I'm about to get attacked, and I have to be strong.

And so the blowback from that feels like I've been running from that for years. I read John Ronson's book, So You've Been Publicly Shamed, recently. My friend, Ennis Esmer recommended it. And I can relate to that in a way, as you recall in the book, they hire that company to sort of basically

push your Google results down. I feel like I've been working my ass off, so when you search for me, it's not that. So you see, no, I am a good yeah, you know, like so you see like no I am a good comic. I did a half hour on Comedy Central on Netflix. I have an hour Netflix. I have an hour on HBO. Like these are the things you can see that I've done Yeah, and It sucks. Yeah, and

And then you do know you did the right thing. I Think so. Yes. Yeah,. And that's not nothing. True. And you sort of got a situation in check. You warned the world that this person hurts people, and you gave voice to other people that had the experience. And also, as you said, the ripple effect is, you know, your courage, you know,

inspired other people to change their life. Yeah. So, you know, that, I would think, on good days, transcends, like, this bitch hates men. Yeah. Right? I think so, yeah.

Well, that's good. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Well, that's good. It's good. Yeah, it is. Yeah, I mean, it's like, you know, I'm sorry you went through that. Thanks.

I know. Of course, for so many days ago, I wish I never fucking happened. But it is interesting because what we were talking about to get here was, you know, how these things, how we're wired and how our childhood experience and childhood trauma, but also just who raised us programs us in a certain way that we may not be aware of. And it could take a lifetime to figure that out. But most of it is some part of your fucking childhood brain wants to honor how you were brought up.

And it's dominant. Mm-hmm, and it's fucked up Because you know, that's what feels like home. I know And when you you and when you're in a situation that doesn't feel like home you like I don't know why this Little it's not as it's not as exciting. I it's a boring. Or it's actually made me emotional. Because again, I've dated plenty of wonderful people. I would say after that, I thought, oh, well, I'll never do that again. And of course, I did have some harmful relationships again.

But sometimes you don't know. You don't know. That's the other thing. It's like, oh, four months in, this person's not well. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, everybody is. I can't remember the fucking joke I wrote about it. But yeah, it's like the first days are like, oh, this is fun. And all of a sudden, this is. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, everybody is. I can't remember the fucking joke I wrote about it, but yeah, it's like the first days are like,

oh, this is fun, and all of a sudden. Yeah, it's good, we reconnect. Yeah, and then all you're like, uh-oh. The bad part of me connects. Yeah, oh no, I've done it again. But then how are you getting out? Bad, I mean, it took me a while to get out of that last one. Like, here's the thing,

I noticed it right away. The one with the La Croix? That was like kind of a short-lived six-weeker. Oh, good for you. Well, but that's the thing. Thank goodness he ended it. Oh, good. He just couldn't take it. With the sugar and the La Croix, I got to get out of here. Yeah. This one was a nightmare.

Yeah, I mean, Jesus Christ, what's it gonna stop? Different flavors? I forgot to say I was crushing the cans on my head and between my tits as well. Hey, look! Crack! Um, no, after him. And again, it's like, I never want to like demonize these people. He's going through his own thing.

But that was my first like full-blown, probably alcoholic that I knew of and drug addict with cocaine. Oh, geez. So that was, and I've never done cocaine, and I think sometimes. You gotta watch them spin out at two in the morning? Yeah. What's happening?

Just sugar water it, you know? Just jaw jabbering. This is the guy that had trouble with sugar and LaCroix? No, no, no, the guy after him. And I was with him for about two years, but the thing is, I did notice it and I did end it. Like I remember it was like red flag, red flag, red flag, okay?

And then one bad thing, an event happened where I don't even know what to get the details of, but essentially he's like, drive two hours to Santa Barbara. I really want you here for this event. I'm like, just dropped you off at this drive two hours to Santa Barbara, I really want you here for this event. I'm like, just dropped you off at this thing, I don't know if I should, I show up 33 beers deep or something. Oh, Jesus.

And someone he had been with before was there, he says something totally inappropriate to her about being insider, and I was like, oh my gosh, I have to leave. Yeah. And so I did, I drove the two hours back, anything he had at my house, I put in the garage, and I just said, hey, just, not in a disheveled way,

of course it was very organized. And I probably washed and folded his clothes and put them in there. And I said, pick it up in there and we're done. And the minute I made the mistake was hearing him out, believing him when he said, but I love you for the first time. Was he shit on the porch after you put, all right. With his shit on the porch? After you put, oh, all right.

Yeah, so I took him back once. And then I took him back probably two more times. That was bad. I do, I'm doing a whole bit about dealing with a mentally ill person who I couldn't get out from under. And because I, and I couldn't figure out why. Yeah, what is it? Well- You're still working on it.

Well, I'm not a beacon of mental health. No. And I have a certain component in me that I try to keep hidden in a way. But I'm a pretty codependent person. And there was something about this person that was so lit up and so exciting that, you know, I wanted her to do better for herself and I wanted, you know, I wanted the thing to work out. She had some dreams and like, well, I can help you and all this other stuff.

But then the drama became so intense. You know, the fights, the insanity, and then when her mental illness really started to reveal itself, you know, it became scary. And like, I, you know, it became scary and like I you know, I had to get out and and I had to go to meetings same to do it like and I'm doing a whole fucking bit about this but I was it was dicey about the bit because you know, I don't I'm not speaking down

to her condition because I am the companion to it. Yeah, I am the guy they find. You know, and I have that. Yeah. So like, you know, I am the mirror of that mental illness. I am mentally ill in that way myself, emotionally. Sure. So I really started to kind of plant that in order to be empathetic properly. But the truth is, you know, it's just, it's a fairly long bit and I don't always do it. But I'm sure it's also, there are things too that are taxing in a way of it. I found. It's a little taxing, but it's just, it's scary because I know I'm a mark for that. Like you know, once you start describing this

I felt like that too with those, at least two or three of them where you're like, oh, I am a, it makes me mad and I don't wanna be self righteous about it, which is what I'm supposed, I'm not supposed to be. But it makes me be like, did you see me and definitely go, oh, I can fool her. Well, I don't think that's it. I just think that that like,

I think that you have an emotional component where they're gonna hear it and they're gonna think they're not as bad as what you talked about. So they're not seeing it as a challenge. They're gonna be like, oh, she likes people like me. You know, but I'm better. You know, I'm not that guy. But yet. Right. Because that guy of course knew about the past thing. Right.

And I think you're right about what you just said. I'm not that. Yeah. You know, but like, it's a real weird place to be to try to develop real boundaries around that stuff. I know. And I talk about it on stage. Like I talk about the condition, you know, and I say, I know there's some people in here that have it and some of them are self-aware and maybe getting help,

but others are going like, that's me and I'm gonna say hi. You know? And like, I've gotten enough distance from it and I'm aware of it enough to be able to go like, eh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, I do a whole thing about like there's never a dull moment. There's never a moment doesn't go by where every second you're like, what's gonna happen? And look, if you're younger and a little naive, it's pretty exciting. But that's where I learned that the arc of drama in a relationship can masquerade as intimacy because you're to get there eventually. There's going to be tears, there's going to be yelling, there's going to be, you know, ultimatums. But then there's going to be crying and fucking. And like, we made it. We're closer than ever.

Yeah. I think that that can happen too. Like, you're talking about it right now on stage. I'm talking about a similar thing of my past relationship, which is why I was drawn to that person, you know, in the past. And I'm dating someone now who, who I sometimes think about, you were talking about the

uncomfortability of feeling almost like safe or. I feel different with the current person than I've ever felt about anybody. That's good. I also noticed myself very emotional at times. Yeah. Like I sometimes will think about him and get emotional. Yeah.

And that's sort of interesting and hard for me to understand. It's almost like, is it so cheesy that I'm like, oh, I don't know if I deserve this, and that's what's making me cry? Or do I feel so supported and seen in love that that's making me cry? Or my hormones changing as a woman as I age, and that's what's making me cry? Yeah.

Like, I don't know the answer. Well, the being seen and loved, like, but it sounds like your mom was pretty solid. Yeah. And knew how to be selfless. Yes. And have true selfless love for her children and give them the space they needed to develop. I didn't really have that. Like, there was no, like, I don't trust love in general because it was always sort of,

their needs were always, you know, right at the forefront. Right? So, like, I became exhausted. I don't think I developed my sense of self properly because of their needs. And this is just stuff, you know, I've put together over time. So I, you know, enter the world, you know, because of their needs. And this is just stuff I've put together over time.

So I enter the world, I used to say, I'm like, I'm 40 and I'm like a kid lost at a mall. Mommy! Grabbing the wrong leg. Yeah, yeah, yeah, whoever's gonna step in. But my mom was not good at mommy at all, my dad was completely out of his mind. So because of that, I don't believe love

and I don't believe I'm worthy of it. My insecurity is profoundly deep, even after all this time. I'll find myself going like, I don't know how to do this. If I were my real self, I'd just be crying. Yeah. Yeah. But it doesn't go, that's the hard part, I guess.

It doesn't go away. It's like a constant. It kind of does go away because you realize, I think the best framing I've gotten of it is that, you know, the emotional reactions of wherever you were hurt, and if you're acting out of that age, you know, that kid's inside of a 60-year-old man now.

So you do have some recourse. Yes. You can say like, hey kid, we've done a lot of stuff. Yes. We've got this. And we're okay. Yeah, and I'm an adult, we're here now, we're safe. I got this.

The biggest realization I had about that was when I used to rage, and I realized that was The biggest realization I had about that was when, you know, I used to rage, and I realized that was a very young reaction. But, you know, when you're a raging 10-year-old in the body of a 45-year-old, it's kind of menacing. Yeah. And it's terrible.

Right. So like, you know, how are we gonna shut Yeah, so it's just not a good look. How are we gonna shut that kid up? Keep it together. Yeah. What is he even angry about? And he sort that out.

But it's like, you know, if you're cursed with this, with having, you know, two emotionally ungrounded parents who were whatever, or abusive in some other way, it's like, you know, you've got to pull yourself together somehow. Could take your whole fucking life. I know. And that's the frustrating part because you also, as the adult, want that connection. You want love, we all do. And if you're linking up with people... I think so. I still push back. I push back.

I keep it at arms distance. We get a good amount from stage. I know, but I'll push back on that, too. Yeah. Hey, that wasn't that funny. Yeah. Well, no, just sort of like, oh, you like me, huh? Let me tell you this story. Yeah. Oh, you, just sort of like, oh, you like me, huh? Let me tell you this story. Oh, you like that?

Yeah. How you feeling about that? Well, you're going to hate this. Yeah. I'll get you not to like me. I used to do a joke on stage where I say, when I dynamic with my audiences, like, I like to pull you in and push you away and then pull you in and push you away. It's a little dynamic I call dad.

That's how I play catch. Oh yeah. That's funny. But we're doing okay, I think. I think we are. We are doing okay. Sounds like you're in a good thing. I'm in a good thing.

I would say too, but that's kind of what I meant. It's a garden that I got to weed, because things have come up. He had made one small, basically, why when I asked something. And then later said, you know what? I don't know why I did that. I think it was because I was, you know,

he came clean, took accountability for it. Said the reason I said that is because I knew that you would maybe worry and your ex had done this sort of thing and didn't want you to think that. But I will say, it's now on me, and it's on my side of the street, and I had been unraveling by not talking about it with him. I'm like, but even though you took accountability for it,

I'm still, it's the lie, because my ex lied so much, and I took him back so many times. The recent ex. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that I'm doing the thing now where I'm like, oh no, have I chosen wrong again?

And it unraveled me a bit. He was just, for example, getting, it's like the detective thing in me. I like come back to being a detective like I was in that most recent ex relationship. My current boyfriend like opened the medicine cabinet and I can hear what the pills are, like it was Advil, and I know that, but it like set.

Wow, that's pretty sensitive. I know, because my ex would get anything, like whenever I did a show where there's weed, he's like taking all of it, you know what I mean? That's also the same place I kept the weed, so he would take anything and everything. So, or I could hear him opening the freezer if I had a vodka in there, which I never drink,

so it's always in there. Like I could always hear everything no matter what room I was in. So anyway, which I never drink, so it's always in there. Like, I could always hear everything, no matter what room I was in. Yeah. So anyway, point is, it just set me off. And he's like, but he sat with me, and was in it for like an hour. And it's not that I was sobbing the whole time

or something, I was like, just, for lack of a better term, fully triggered. And he's like, I don't know, I don't wanna over explain, but I was just getting Advil. You know? And then the thing that was beautiful that he said was like, we've had countless hours of amazing time. If one hour is a setback, I'll sit with you for an hour.

Yeah, that's nice. Yeah. Yeah, I seem to have been going in a way where I just, you know, I tend to, like my girlfriend's younger than me a bit and, you know, we've, and we've really explored both of our mental problems, but I really fear the idea of love as being erasing me somehow. It's a weird thing.

Interesting. Erasing you. Yes. Because I feel like that my parents' love was so consuming and needy that, like, I didn't... Like, I don't have the muscle for it. Do you know what I mean?

What if it's different in this that you feel like you're... Oops. That you're choosing, right? Yeah, I can feel that, and sometimes... So you're choosing to love this person, it's... Yeah, yeah. and that's present. But they're just sort of like some things, I feel like I'm at the edge of some sort of emotional catharsis most of the time,

but I'm also getting old. And I'm also sort of at a place you know financially you know and I'm pretty generous and I'm like and I know how to do the right thing and you know and behave good you know and not entirely selfishly so I don't know it's all unfolding yeah it's okay it's good I know basically it feels sometimes like it used to feel to me like I was trying to map the perfect story. And I don't mean necessarily like the princess, you know, but that if something went awry or like that little bump I told you about, then it's fucked.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And you can't let it go. Yeah. But I don't want to be like that. And I think it's just a matter of taking it. And realizing that some things are not, doesn't mean it's fucked, it's just sort of like, all right, well, let's just process it and deal. Yeah, I mean, I really thought with Lynn that like, I'm good, we're good for the rest of it.

Yeah. And maybe there's still a part of me that's operating in some sort of profound grief, I don't know. I don't know either. I think that that's good to be open to it and aware of it. I think the aging thing is ever present. It's different for men and women. I'm sure like you're saying, you feel it in different ways.

As I continue to age, like of course for women my age, it's like a baby, no baby, the time in different ways. As I continue to age, like, of course, for women my age, it's like a baby, no baby, the time in the window. But you're kinda set in that? I froze some eggies. I got some, I've got some eggs over on ice in Beverly Hills. Oh yeah? A real rags to riches tale. Nice.

That should be a story you can tell that kid, if you ever use them. What was it like growing up in Beverly Hills? Yeah, I'm sure you don't remember, but. Was it cold? You were very small. Yeah, I'd like to be open to it, but it's also not something we've really talked about.

So he also has two kids. Wow. From a previous marriage, they're cutie pies. Yeah, well that's good. Yeah. But I don't really have the desire to get married. I'm not saying like I, yeah, that's not really present, it hasn't been present for me.

Yeah, I can't do it again. Yeah. But I think too with aging wise, even just body, face, all these things, like I'm sure it's just different for both you and I. I imagine, I don't wanna put it on you or not, but I'm like, there are options here in LA and everywhere, but you know, the ever present surgery.

And I personally just don't want to do that. You look great, what do you? Thank you. But I just mean like you're talking about aging and when you're in a relationship, an intimacy and what that looks like. And to me, obviously the hottest thing is being comfortable in your skin

and loving your body the way it is and being active and. what that looks like. And to me, obviously the hottest thing is being comfortable in your skin and loving your body the way it is and being active and. How does that happen? Oh wow. How does that happen? I'm like, if I. You look in the mirror and you go, you know Mark, you're the shit.

Yeah, it happens rarely. Usually it's all revolves around my body dysmorphia because my mom was like a brain disorder person. It's all relative. Oh, it's the fucking. But good for you for not being, you know. I'm not scaling it. Not doing the scale.

Good. I'm not scaling yours. I'm basing it fully on pants feel. Yep, same. Oh, these are a little tight. I'm gonna say they shrunk. All right, I'm just gonna run a little harder. Oh, I think we've worked it all out.

I think we did. I'm healed. Me too, totally. I think I'm healed, but there's still a vague, you know, blind spot sadness. Yeah. Yeah, but I feel better. Yeah.

I can relate to the vague sad spot. I wanted to kind of make you seem like everything was okay, but when you said that, it really locked in. Yeah, yeah, the kind of, it's just over there. Yeah. So what are you doing now? I've been touring and... Totally new hour kind of deal? So we do.

Yep. And you're pretty happy? I feel that. Yeah, minus that big little dick over my shoulder. Just keep it at bay. Yeah. I got a cutie pie. I'm touring. I started a new podcast. There you go. It's called Sweethearts. You're busy. Yeah started a new podcast. There you go. It's called Sweet Hearts.

You're busy. Yeah, I'm booked and busy. All right. Good talking to you. You too. There you go. That was very fun. I feel like we should be friends.

Her special If You Didn't Want Me Then is on Netflix. Her podcast Sweet Hearts with Moe Welch is on all podcast platforms and her tour dates are available at BethStelling.com. Hang out for a minute. Hey folks, I don't know if you know about this house that I live in now, but one of the reasons I bought it was that the garage had been converted into a room. There was a bathroom put in, there was drywall put on the other side of the door I bought it was that the garage had been converted into a room. There was a bathroom put in, there was drywall put on the other side of the door, and basically it was no longer a garage, it was a room.

And I thought, oh, well, this is amazing. I'll do my podcast in here. And honestly, aside from using it as a place to do the podcast, this is now a perfect space to host on Airbnb. Now do a little thought experiment for yourself. Think about where you live. Got extra bedrooms, a guest house, maybe your whole house is just very comfortable

even when you're not home. While you're away, your home could be on Airbnb. It's easy to do and it's a great way to earn some extra cash. Maybe you can cover the cost of your summer vacation or fix that other part of the house that you've been putting off. There's extra money just sitting there.

All you got to do is Airbnb it. Don't take my word for it. Check it out. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at airbnb.ca slash host. Hey, listeners, want to diversify your portfolio easily? The all in one ETFs from Fidelity Investments Canada lets you do just that. Each ETF provides exposure to stocks, bonds, and crypto so you can potentially maximize

your return. It's essentially like getting a complete portfolio in one trade. Visit fidelity.ca slash all-in-one and find the ETF that's right for you. Commissions fees and expenses may apply. Read the funds or ETFs perspectives before investing. Funds and ETFs are not guaranteed. Their values change and past performance may not be repeated. to hear me go on at length about the presidential election. I did that for a bonus episode.

We just posted on the full Marin. We're in this position where we just had this default situation going on and it felt really weird. You know, when you're sort of faced with this cult-like excitement about a monster and they're like, well, you're a Biden guy and it's like, yeah, by default to a certain degree. And I don't think the guy had,

I think the administration did very well, leveled the ship. It seems like a lot of things policy-wise went correctly. And I had no problem with that. And I had no problem with the idea of him just sitting there on a machine, to be honest with you. Yeah. But in terms of actually feeling like any kind of, it's not so much hope,

but just the excitement of representation. That, you know, to have something happen where all of a sudden you're like, all right, well now it's not a matter of it being a fair fight or not, but at least we have somebody who can communicate ideas who represents something in her own being and body and as an individual Can sort of bring together this whole other side of the things that represent?

The country we live in the majority of it. So it was just more of a like, holy shit, I'm excited about this because it just seems more than fortuitous that she's sort of exactly on a human level what we need as a representation of what this country looks like. That's available right now for Full Mehron subscribers. To subscribe, go to the link in the episode description or go to WTF pod.com and click on WTF plus. And a reminder before we go, this podcast is hosted by a cast. Here's some old guitar. I'm gonna be a man. Boomer who lives, Monkey, La Fonda, all of them cat angels everywhere. you