WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1567 - Paul W. Downs

Episode Date: August 22, 2024

Over the past four years, Paul W. Downs has been one of the people responsible for constructing the ongoing story of a lifer standup comic on the show Hacks. Paul talks with Marc about how his comedy background is very different from the fictional Deborah Vance, with his training at the UCB Theater, his days at the vanguard of internet video comedy, and his entry into the world of Broad City. They also talk about embarrassment, becoming less odd with age, and the current crisis in comedy development. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey folks, let your imagination soar by visiting audible.ca. Audible has the best selection of audiobooks without exception, along with popular podcasts and exclusive audible originals, all in one easy app. Whether you listen to stories, motivation, expert advice, basically any genre you love, you can be inspired to imagine new worlds, new possibilities, new ways of thinking. Listening can lead to positive change in your mood, your habits, and ultimately your overall well-being. Enjoy Audible anytime while you're doing other things. Household chores, exercising, on the road, commuting, you name it.

Audible makes it easy to be inspired and entertained as part of your everyday routine, without needing to set aside extra time. You might want to check out some audiobooks by our recent guests like I Curse You With Joy by Tiffany Hannes or Sonic Life by Thurston Moore. There's more to imagine when you listen. Sign up for a free 30-day audible trial and your first audiobook is free. Visit audible.ca Hey folks, for some of us, eating is an emotional experience. If you've listened to this show for a while, you've heard me talk about how I've always struggled with food.

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Sign up for your trial today at Noom.com. Yeah, that's it. Get a handle on that food. All right, let's do this. How are you? What the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fuck, Nick?

What's going on? I'm Mark Maron. This is my podcast WTF. Welcome to it. I'm back here. I'm Mark Maron, this is my podcast WTF, welcome to it. I'm back here, I'm in Los Angeles, back at my home, hanging out for a little, little nice chunk of time. Getting re-grounded, hanging around the house, sitting on the porch, talking to the cats,

cleaning shit up, getting a little work done around the homestead. Helpful. Today, I talked to Paul W. Downs. He is one of the co-creators, writers, and stars of Hacks. He plays the manager guys. Very funny. He's nominated for Emmys for this year for both writing on the show and as a supporting

actor. It's weird because I should have talked to him a while ago. It was interesting because he was the first person ever pitched to us from the show, from Hacks. But we thought it would be a little weird to have this female-led show written and co-created by women, and the first person we had on from it would be the one guy involved in the development.

So we've since had Jen Statsky on and Hannah Einbinder on. So now it was Paul's turn. And I didn't really know this guy, but he seems like a funny guy. I love the show. I really, it's an astounding accomplishment in comedy writing. It really is. It's really great.

And as a comic, watching a show about comics, it's hard to get that right. And I know it's tricky to have somebody acting the part of a standup, but she does it, Gene does it great. And there's always gonna be a little something that's, a real comic, a standup comic has that comic-ness that is ingrained in their soul.

And I know that, but in terms of like getting the life right and her getting the character right, just, and he's funny, it's a great show. I'm 100% on board with that show. And I didn't know he had a past in standup. I had no idea where he came up through and how in terms of the comedy world. So that was a fun conversation.

It was a good, had a good time. Like the guy. Good guy. Funny guy. You can hear it in a few minutes. I'll be in Tucson, Arizona at the Rialto Theater on Friday, September 20th. Then I'm in Phoenix at the Orpheum Theater on Saturday, September 21st. You can go to wtfpod.com slash tour for tickets and get the dates for the shows that were rescheduled in 2025 So My ego up in vancouver is contracted Into something canadian, I think just because I have that weird Annately codependent symbiotic connection that just happens

without any Awareness of mine until I'm in it with any culture, place, person, it just happens. But you know feeling that small and feeling like you know just me is not great. It turns out like I'm fucking, and I don't know if you know this, but I, I'm plagued with anxiety. I'm constantly future tripping. I'm worried about bullshit. If I have any free time in my head, I'll fill it with worry about things that don't even exist. It's almost like a hobby. And I, you know, I don't think I can do anything. I don't think

I can do anything. And that's just one step away from, I think I suck at everything. There's the idea that's sort of like, no matter what I've been doing my whole life, somehow or another, it's been a couple weeks, I can't do it anymore. And then the next step of that is, you know, I know I've done all these things in my life, but it turns out,

now that I haven't done them for three weeks, I fucking suck at everything. Yeah, isn't that great? Such progress on a core level that I haven't done them for three weeks, I fucking suck at everything. Yeah, isn't that great? Such progress on a core level that I've made. But generally, it's not, I wouldn't call it a better angel, but my grownup self is sort of like, dude, just, it's fine. You'll be fine.

Well, what do you think's gonna happen? But I hadn't done comedy in what felt like weeks. And I get on and I put in at the store because I wanna cram it in, do the fucking work, figure out where I'm at up there, like it's gonna change, like I don't know who I am. And I go to the store and just driving into the place, and I know I've waxed romantic about that place

and about my past there, but it's been a long time since I kind of rode out the whole night, you know? But, you know, I get there and there's just, you know, people around, you know, all the folks and all of a sudden this, you know, this bearded man comes up to me like he looks like a prophet coming down from the mountains. And it's it's old Ron White. Hadn't seen Ron in a long time Certainly not since he's all gray and bearded and long haired and sober

Fucking Ron white one of the greats was just in the hallway and I was like, holy fuck Ron You know, I give him a hug and hadn't seen him in a while. I was excited to watch him and who else was around The um burr was running out and I said, how's it going? He goes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, fine. Yeah, and then he storms out and I'm like, of course I'm assuming, hey, he's gotta be mad at me, right? Why'd you just do, what's he running away from me for? What's going on?

I follow him and I'm like, what's going on? He's like, nothing, I gotta go. Had nothing to do with me. And then I remembered, oh, if Burr was mad at me, that is definitely a moment that he would take the time to tell me So he's not a guy is no fuck that guy. He'd be like, yeah, what the fuck is what was that shit, you know, so so, you know a little drama in my head and but like I hung around and Then just got later in the night and it's an interesting thing about the store

It's like what the story is on any given night from eight o'clock to about 10 10 30 uh you know after that it it changes and i'm usually gone by then and i'm sure i've talked about this before but like a lot of the audience leaves and it's a little scattered and blair socke is there who i just interviewed and she's got to go on after ian bagg and he's a guy who I've known probably for fucking 30 years and then it was pretty amazing. It must have been like midnight and Sam Jay goes on and It's like, you know, the audience is you know, it's small but you know, they're scattered but they're around but she was just doing the thing Man, you know know I've interviewed her

I don't know her that well You know she's a little intimidating to me But she was up there working shit out in a very honest But raw as fuck way you know with big ideas and big honesty about her being tired of being a lesbian and uh and some gritty fucking funny ass details. But there was a vibe to that kind of honesty where you're really kind of stepping out on the ice and you're showing a part of yourself in a kind of mildly angry, fed up, but unique way in terms of what she's thinking about and and I just hadn't seen

That kind of work it reminded me of Patrice O'Neill who I know you know she's a fan of and and it just Yeah, it was it was great to see you know that raw shit happening in a world of garbage in a world of false risk-taking, of fake edgelords, of boring crowd work, of, you know, kind of tired or detached joke telling, just to see somebody get down there and wrestle with the filth of being a person in that person's body, and then kind of broadening that out, you know, into the world at large and just reflecting in the moment about her,

you know, feelings about Kamala and about, you know, black culture and it was just like, I don't know, there was an honesty to it that creates a kind of electricity in the room, even though it was late and there weren't that many people there, just I was so fucking thrilled to see that work being done. And I'm just glad I hung out late. And then Steve Fury goes on, he kills, he's fucking funny.

Just to watch, it was Tuesday night, you know, and to watch, you know, like late night fucking, you know, comics up there doing the work for a tired fucking crowd that's half the size it was or a quarter the size it was. And just, you know, kind of doing the real shit, you know, fucking reaching in to get the laughs, but also just, you know, there's a purity to it. a purity to it, an authentic, you can't hide up there when, you know, you've got to go do the gig, do the job for a tired bunch of small group of people. But also you want to be funny, but also, you know, there's a once you get through with that size of crowd, there's a freedom to it. It was great, man. It was great. And it felt good to be there, but then I go home and I can't sleep There's just moments where I wish I knew how to get out of myself in a way. That's

enjoyable for I Don't know it's it's all about the comedy. It's all about talking to people. It's all about the Dynamics in the relationship. It's all about the dynamics in the relationship. It's all about, you know, the cats. But boy, my brain finds time, man. It's a whole other parallel universe of my mind versus the reality around me. But I guess that's life. I don't like that I have this fucking time

to spin this shit around. I mean, when does that stop? Truth is, I guess never. But I did enjoy the DNC. Man, Michelle Obama kicked ass. Barack kicked ass, very exciting. Just to see the kind of weird, vulnerable, joyful excitement of a big, broad, diverse audience

of people finally feeling represented in a way that they could get excited about and re-engage their vision of just fucking basic decency. Enough of these fucking assholes. Just doubling down on fucking abusive garbage. Just basic fucking decency and it's just thrilling that now that there's a bunch of grown-ups in the room that know how to speak about things eloquently and in a way that is uplifting and and proactive just makes the fucking other side look like a bunch of limited fucking clowns without even starting

shit it's just we were just missing that dialogue it's again I don't know what's gonna happen I wouldn't say I'm optimistic but just seeing excited people trying to get back to a time where people were just basically fucking decent, compassionate fucking individuals in communities and whatnot, not just fucking angry, traumatized, unprocessed, bile and grievance, and entitlement and abusiveness. grievance and entitlement and

Abusiveness just Fucking relax be a fucking person Can we all just be fucking people who care about people? Christ So that was what I got out of it. I don't know what you got out of it. All right, look Paul W downs is, very funny. He's nominated for Outstanding Supporting Actor in a Comedy Series and Outstanding Writing for a Comedy Series at this year's Emmy Awards for Hacks. And this is the first time I really talked

to him or met him, I think. Yeah. okay, here we go. Hey folks, let your imagination soar by visiting audible.ca. Audible has the best selection of audiobooks without exception, along with popular podcasts and exclusive audible originals, all in one easy app. Whether you listen to stories, motivation, expert advice, basically any genre you love, you can be inspired to imagine new worlds, new possibilities, new ways of thinking. Listening can lead to positive change in your mood, your habits, and ultimately your overall well-being. Enjoy Audible anytime while you're doing other things.

Household chores, exercising, on the road, commuting, you name it. Audible makes it easy to be inspired and entertained as part of your everyday routine without needing to set aside extra time. You might want to check out some audiobooks by our recent guests like I Curse You With Joy by Tiffany Hanish or Sonic Life by Thurston Moore. There's more to imagine when you listen. Sign up for a free 30-day Audible trial and your first audiobook is free. Visit audible.ca Hey folks, it's been a new experience for me up in Vancouver. I've had to arrange a little life for myself while I'm there.

I get comfortable living in a new country for a while. Thankfully, I've been able to go back home every couple weeks or so, which helps me keep grounded. But if I wasn't coming home regularly, that would be four whole months I'd be up in Canada. Which means four months my place is sitting there empty. That would be a good scenario to host it on Airbnb and make some extra cash. So think about a situation that you've got coming up where you won't be at your place. We all have vacations or extended stays somewhere else.

While you're away, your home could be an Airbnb But it doesn't have to be your whole home a guest house works Even a spare bedroom if you're like me and you like showing off where you live Now's your chance to do it and make some extra cash at the same time Your home might be worth more than you think find out how much at Airbnb dot ca Slash host all right all right Find out how much at airbnb.ca slash host. All right? All right. ["The Last Supper"]

What are we three seasons in now? Yeah, the third season. Yeah, watch it. I've watched them all. Thank you for watching. Yeah, I don't do that often I get it. I get it. I've seen two episodes of everything so I don't I don't finish everything myself But well, I think I had a lot invested in it because you know, there's some part of me as like a lifer comic

Yeah Were you like they're gonna fuck it up. All right. Well, yeah. I mean, have we? No! Okay, good, good. It's a hard thing to do. I mean, there's like, I don't know how you quite pulled it off, but the life of a veteran comic who has a draw, who has a Vegas residency is very specific.

So that was sort of a smart place to start because that life is not the normal comic life. Right, it's not somebody in LA or living in or on the road. Yeah, right. But, you know, it's alluded to that she was that. Yep. At some point and then does it again. Yep.

So like I just thought the sort of, you know, getting the life right seemed pretty good because I don't know that life and I knew like I knew comics like this comic, her character reminds me a lot of Brett Butler. Sure, yeah. Who I knew. Yeah. She's, I wish I was in touch with Brett, but it's very random. Yeah.

But I just knew the life, but I don't know how the hell you got it right. How did you? I don't know. I mean, you know, she is an amalgamation of a lot of people that we admire. Like Joan. Like Joan, and there's some Phyllis Diller

cause she has a lot of like made up elements of her life in the beginning of her act. And you know, Rita Rudner and like people that are like Vegas comics. Did you go out there? And like, did you go- Shooting we did. And you know, Jen was married

in a drive through chapel there. So Jen is kind of a Vegas girl. Jen Statsky, my co-creator, loves it there. Right, do you? I didn't before we started working there. And now you love Vegas? Now I have an appreciation, I like it. An appreciation.

I mean, I wouldn't go there. I'm not going there for a bachelor party, but. No? Well, no. So what is the higher tier of Vegas? Because there's some part of me that I don't know how to have a good time in too many situations. Yeah, I get that.

So the idea of it's like, come up to the penthouse after the show and a lot of people are coming by and that sort of like champagne and the glitz of it all. I don't know that either. I've only been in production there. Truly I've been there in production

and I went there once for a Monster Jam show. Like who was on that? Oh, I don't even know. It was like, you know, Grave Digger. It was like Monster Trucks. Oh, Monster Trucks. I went there to shoot a sketch. Oh, okay.

In Las Vegas. It wasn't this guilty pleasure of yours. I've never been there for pleasure, to be honest. I mean, I try and have pleasure, you know? We have good meals when we're shooting there. Cause there's great restaurants and there are great shows. We've seen great shows. Like what? I mean, you know, Adele's there now. You know, there are people that are really, you know, you when we're shooting there. Cause there's great restaurants and there are great shows. We've seen great shows. Like what?

I mean, you know, Adele's there now. You know, there are people that are really, you know, you two had their show there. Yeah, that was the sphere. So you were there, it was up and running. It was up and running. The third season. This time it was up and running, yeah.

Did you go see U2 there? I didn't, but Lucia's aunt went twice. So I feel like I've gotten- Your wife's aunt. Yes, my wife's aunt went multiple times. As a lot of people have. Yeah, yeah. And who were the comics in residency there

when you were there shooting? Were there any? That's a good question. I mean, Carrot Top has never left. Carrot Top is still there. Where at the Luxor? Yeah. I saw him there before I interviewed him.

Oh, you did, yeah. You know, he was on the show this year or last year. Season two. Yeah, yeah, I remember. No, season three, God. Season three. They're blending together even for me. But yeah, he was on the show this year or last year, season two. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I remember. No, season three, God. Season three, yeah. They're blending together, even for me. But yeah, he was on. So I don't, like it's weird that your name, Paul Downs,

it's triggering to me for a very weird reason. Oh no, why? What happened? Well, there was this booker, and I believe it was in Boston when I was starting out, there was a booker who booked the comedy connection, I think his name was Bill Downs, and his partner was Paul Barkley, and I didn't like them.

Ooh. Jeez, two for two. What is, where did the name Downs come from? What is it? It's like English, Irish. Oh, it is? Yeah, my, but you know, they, the Downs side of the family. Yeah.

I'm from New Jersey. Yeah? And they were, I think they landed in New Jersey whenever they landed and were there for a long time. I'm Irish and Italian. Well, so my grandfather was also Paul. My dad is Paul. My grandfather was Paul.

I'm Paul. My son is Paul. Really? You did that? Yeah, but we call him by his middle name, which is Luca. So he doesn't go by Paul. So you just felt the pressure to kind of need, is your dad still around?

He is, yeah. Oh, so you kind of, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we were like, you know, Luca is so Italian. So he's Paul III? We all have different middle names, so there's no first, second, third, fourth, no. Oh, you didn't go the whole way.

We're all originals, you know? Where in New Jersey? Well, I was born in Morristown, but I'm from a town called Sussex, which is in like very Northwestern Jersey, very, very, very rural. Oh yeah. Like livestock auction every week. Yeah, people don't realize that about Jersey.

It's a very green, farm-y state. Oh yeah, where I'm from, I think it's, you know, I don't know, 1200 people in the town, really small. But not close to New York, so you didn't have that. No, like two hours from New York. Or New York, so you didn't have that? No, like two hours from New York. Or the beaches, so you're not Jersey'd? No, not even near the turnpike.

You know, people are like, what's your style? Our exit was, it took us an hour and a half to get to the turnpike, so. Wow. Yeah. So you didn't have the, you don't identify Jersey? I do, but I have a really different understanding of the state. Experience?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And people are like, oh, the Soprano, oh, Newark Airport, really different understanding of the state. People are like, oh, the soprano, oh, Newark Airport. People are like, yeah. Now we're from the city. Yes. Yeah. Not you. I don't even have, people are like, what's your mall?

I think we were like 45 minutes from the Rockaway Mall. Okay. There wasn't even a mall nearby. So different Jersey experience. Very different. And you got a bunch of brothers and sisters? I have a younger sister Emily and that's it Yeah, that's good. What's your dad? What was he? So my dad was in procurement. He was a buyer

What well he worked for a bunch of companies for like I think for the longest time you work for this company a Japanese company Called Sumora and they made they like licensed Disney brands and made like Little Mermaid shampoo and like Beauty and the Beast kids toothbrushes. You know, it made like all kinds of stuff. So there's a lot of that around the house? We did have a lot of that. We did have a lot.

We had, whether it was potpourri or themed toothbrushes, we did have a lot of that. Bring home the boxes and stuff. Yeah. But he worked like really, he worked in the city. So he drove like two hours each way. Yes, and then when I went to public school, my mom is a public school teacher.

I have two aunts and two uncles who were public school teachers, a lot of teachers in my family. And then in about sixth grade, my parents were like, it's really small and rural here. We're gonna take you out of the school and go somewhere else. And so I went to a school

that was an hour and a half from my house. So I drove three hours a day to, from, yeah. For high school? Just before high school, seventh grade. Sixth grade I went to, my school was two kids in sixth, two kids in seventh, four kids in eighth grade, all in one class. What the fuck? I know, I know.

And they just wanted you to have a broader experience? My mom was a sub, she substitute taught at the school one day and was like, I think you should have a- At your school? Yeah, and I think she was like, because even then I wanted to act, right? And so she was like, I think-

In junior high? We should look someone else. Even younger. When I was really- Is that a weird thing? I remember my mom's substitute art teached at my school and it was like such a big day.

Yeah. Your mom's gonna be teaching. It was weird. Yeah. My mom came in and did like presentations. My parents collect antiques and they bought a, the reason I lived there was they bought a really old house that was built in 1749.

Wow. Way far the heck out. And they have never moved. They still live there. Yeah. And it's kind of like their Bob Vila passion project. And they have never moved. They still live there. Yeah. And it's kind of like their Bob Vila passion project. So they did it their whole life?

That's their weekend warrior project. Yeah, they're still doing it. Yeah. You know, they just put an air conditioning upstairs this year. Oh, they didn't want to ruin the old structure. That's right. That's right. They kept it.

So they've spent a lifetime getting this thing historically correct? That's right. And's right. They kept... So they've spent a lifetime getting this thing historically correct? That's right. And it is very historically correct. But anyway, so my mom would come in and do like, they were really into history. Yeah. And my mom would do like presentations around what life was like in colonial New Jersey. So that was my experience of my mom coming to school

and showing people how to churn butter. You know, it was like... Did she have a churn? Oh yeah. We had a butter churn. Yeah. We people how to churn butter. You know, it was like. Did she have a churn? Oh yeah, we had a butter churn. Yeah, we had a butter churn. We had, yeah, we had, I don't even. But was that a regular thing or was this an antique they had?

It was an antique they had. Your mom didn't churn butter. No, no, no, no, no. It was something that they had, but then they could bring in the prop. Right, sure. You know, my mom, you know. Yeah. Going back to Carrot Top, they could bring in the props.

Yeah, the butter churn. Maybe he'll hear this and he'll... I hope he does. He's gotta bring more colonial stuff into his work. At this point, he probably needs it. He may have it actually, I don't know. Oh my God. He, yeah, he's a character.

So that was your life. Yeah, we didn't really have sleepovers because we couldn't run in the house. My parents were like, be careful. Really? Don't break anything or don't break yourself? Both. Those are like all hardwood floors,

staircases and the whole thing? Wide plank, hardwood floors, small staircase though, cause it was 18th century, so low ceilings, low doorways. Oh really? Yeah. Is it pretty? It's really pretty. People are always like, is it haunted?

You know, because it's got that vibe. Everyone wants everything to be haunted. Everyone does, everyone's like, tell us about the ghosts. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like their first question. It's that old, so it's gotta be haunted. Yeah, many people died here. You know?

Everywhere. Yeah, everywhere. Everywhere you go. Everywhere. That's the one thing people don't consider. It's like, whatever, if any house you've ever lived in is more than 50 years old, there's death in there.

That's right. But do you believe in ghosts? You know, there were some weird experiences we had, but I'm not like a, I'm certainly not a paranormal investigation. File. Yeah, yeah. No, no. Weird experiences?

Well, you know, people were always like, what is the house haunted? And it's like, well, weirdly like, toilets would flush on their own, which did seem strange. I know, I know. But then again, you just chalk it up to old plumbing, but the attic light would often be on

and no one had been up there. You know, there were things like that. Oh yeah. But nothing like, I was never touched by a ghost. I was never molested by a ghost. You never felt one brush by you on the staircase? No, no, not quite. So when did you start thinking that you needed to act?

You know, I wanted to do it when I was pretty young. My mom would take the train with me into the city, and I would audition for like, detergent commercial. Never booked. But I kind of always wanted to do it, but I think I got into comedy. That's what we'd said right home, isn't it? When you don't get the detergent commercial.

You know, my mom would be like, it's because you have perfect diction. And they want children with lisps because children with lisps are cuter. You know, and so there was always a reason. And I was like, okay, great. Did you try to get the lisp going? No, I didn't put things on.

You know, I was just, I was purely myself and they didn't want that. They just didn't want it. Yeah, their loss. Thank know, I was just, I was purely myself. And they didn't want that. They just didn't want it. Their loss. Thank you. I appreciate it. It was probably good. You know what?

Who knows where I'd be? Maybe not here. There's plenty of people that have done commercials. They did all right. Yeah, that's true. But I think in, actually it was probably when I started changing schools that I was like, I didn't really, you know,

I didn't know the world of going to a private school. I didn't, a lot of those kids had been in school together since they were in kindergarten. You know, I was like odd and I think that's- Odd? Yes, I was odd. I was kind of an eccentric kid. Are you odd now?

Not, less odd. Yeah. Yeah, I am less odd. I guess that's sad. But maybe you were- I'm still odd. I'm still odd, but less eccentric. But like if you were exactly the way you are now then, it would have been odd.

That would have been odd, yeah, exactly. That would have been great actually. I wish I had some of the wisdom I have now in seventh grade, but. Well, how are you odd? You mean the other kids made fun of you? I like made my own, like we had to wear, like, you know, there's a dress code,

which I wasn't used to, and we had to wear a tie to school, and I would like make my own ties, you know? This kind of like. Make it? Yeah. You'd sew on it? I would like glue buttons on a tie, you know? Have I would like make my own ties, you know? This kind of like. Make it? Yeah. I would like glue buttons on a tie, you know? Have like a tie with a thousand buttons, you know? It was like.

So you were odd in that you needed to be different. I guess so. I also wore like patent leather wingtips. It was like, huh? It was very, I don't know why. I mean, my parents were very encouraging of letting me be my first- Expressed yourself. Yes.

And so they changed the dress code my second year of school. Because you had to wear a blazer and a Yes, and so they changed the dress code my second year of school. Because you had to wear a blazer and a tie and then they were like, well, it has to be a Navy blazer, it can't be red. And it has to be like a tie that doesn't have buttons all over it. So you're pushing the envelope,

however you could within the context of the dress code provided. That's very kind of you to say, that's very kind. But I was really, I was pushing the envelope and trying to edge up. Well, you were. Yeah, I guess, I guess. You know, I remember there was a need to,

I had this memory the other day from high school where I went out with this girl on a date and there was no reason for me to go out with her. She was kind of like big hair, from WASPy country club-ish person. But I had asked her out because I was ambitious. Good for you. And I remember showing up at her house to pick her up and I'd worn, my dad was kind

of a clothes hound, and he had this leather trench coat. Wow. It was a very kind of like a nice shiny leather trench coat. So I put that on and I had these orange Converse high tops. Okay, were cut from the same cloth I'm hearing. Yes. Yeah. Okay. And you know, and I knocked on that door and that girl's mother opened the door

and the look she gave me was just sort of like, I'm not pulling this off. Wow. I'm not like, she was like, what is my daughter? What is wrong with this kid? That's cruel. That's a cruel parent. Well, yeah, they're awful.

But I thought about it, because occasionally I like to catalog my embarrassing moments of which there are many. Oh, isn't that fun? I have those too, yeah. Like it is my biggest, like fear in life, is just that feeling of embarrassment.

Yeah, me too. It's the fucking, and then we're both in comedy. And it's embarrassing. But it's our way of owning it. I guess, yeah, yeah. It's our banana peel. Yeah, I mean, it's just sort of like, if you can go do comedy of any kind,

when you fail, it's like the worst fucking possible thing, but because you've chosen this outlet, you've gotta suck it up. Right, right. And you've done it to yourself. Yes, it's just on the job training to overcome embarrassment. 100%.

Oh my God, buttons on the tie. How far- And that's why I got into it, was to beat people to the punch, I guess, you know? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, fuck you, I'll fuck me. Yeah, exactly. Oh my God. It's reminding me of a joke that I do that does not work.

Of what is it? I don't wanna date myself. But I would suck myself off again. And that never works. I always think it's gonna work. I would suck myself off again. Again. Yeah, again.

I added the again recently, but it still doesn't work. I don't know why. Do you put a little space there? Yeah, little ellipses, yeah. I would suck myself off again. Again, yeah, you do that. Still no. I have to repeat it.

It's bizarre, but I'll try. I'm gonna keep trying. I'm committed to the joke. I do think it will work. You know when you have a belief, when you have a strong belief? Yeah, dude, I've done jokes that don't work for the whole run. Well, as long as you like it, I guess that's okay. Why, if maybe you think of this thing, F, dude, I've done jokes that don't work for the whole run.

Well, as long as you like it, I guess that's okay. Why, if maybe you think of this thing, Fahim, you know Fahim? No. Fahim Anwar, he's in Conway. Oh, oh yeah, yeah. I started following a bunch of people on Instagram because I was told I should be by my Instagram guy.

Uh-huh, that's good, that's good. I don't remember, I don't know which rock star it was that the myth about having someone who had removed ribs. Oh, Marilyn Manson. Right, so he could suck himself up. Oh yes, yeah. And Fahim's take on it was like, how jaded do you have to get to where you did,

you don't even wanna bother with the party or with the girl. You go through surgery. Right, right, like the angle was like, hey, we got some girls coming, there's gonna be a party. So I'm like, no, I'm good, I'm just gonna go home. You know what I mean? Yeah, oh God.

So how much standup do you do? You know, I did a little bit when I first started out doing comedy in New York, and I quickly pivoted to doing stuff at the UCB. when I first started out doing comedy in New York. And I was quickly... I quickly pivoted to doing stuff at the UCB. But, okay, so what's the jump? So... You go through the, you know, you push the boundaries of fashion. I absolutely rock seventh grade.

And then they changed the fashion code. That's right. Probably because of you. The dress code was changed. I was shamed. Oh, would they? No, not really, but they were changed. They made it stric. So what? I was shamed. Oh, would they? No, not really, but they were changed. They made it stricter?

Yes, it was stricter. It was like, you had to wear like brown leather shoes instead of just like leather tie-up shoes. Oh yeah. I think the purpose in the beginning was no sneakers and then it became also no patent leather wingtips. And then instead of like any color blazer, it was a Navy blazer.

So they shut you down. I guess, yeah. I guess I was censored early on. And this was in high school now? It was the year, two years before high school. And where'd you go to high school? I went to a school called Pingree in central New Jersey. Is that where you started acting? Pretty much, I mean, I did take acting classes

like extracurricularly, but yes. Where, in the city? They had a great theater program. No, I did it like in Sussex County, you know. With some lady? With some lady who did like, you know, pantomime class, you know, and I got really good at like, pulling an imaginary rope and being Sussex County, you know. With some lady? With some lady who did like, you know, pantomime class, you know, and I got really good at like pulling an imaginary rope and being in a box, you know.

Sure, those are the classics. Yeah. Wind, did you do wind? A lot of wind, oh yeah, a lot of wind. It's a lot of fighting wind, you know, going down an elevator. Sure. That wasn't there.

But then yeah, the reason I chose this particular school, because there were other schools that I applied to. One, I got financial aid to go, but also it was a school that, it was pretty much a performance art high school. So you chose your discipline, whether that be music or visual art or theater, and then it was like what you did.

You didn't take other art classes, you just did those. And it was also a high school where there was sports and everything else, but there was a great theater program and they were doing like very adult, I think when I visited they did Marat Saad and it was like very adult plays. The department led by Al Romano, gotta give him a shout out. There was a lot of like Reaganism stuff,

there was a lot of like- Can't do that anymore I bet. I don't know, I don't know. Maybe not, maybe not. It's an interesting time, you know, because like, and I'm older than you, obviously, but there was shit going, like crazy art going on, you know, with young people that just,

I bet it's certainly not gonna exist in a public school anymore. Right, no way. Yeah. Yeah. But I guess with a private performing arts school, they can still, you would think there's no parents that are like, what's going on at the arts school? Where my kid is wearing this hat.

Although you never know. You never know who's gonna be up in arms about something. Arts side, kids. I love when, like I really kind of like to go watch a production of an adult play done by high school students. I don't think I've seen one as an adult. I certainly haven't. It's probably good that we don't think I've seen one as an adult. I certainly haven't. It's probably good that we don't randomly go

if we don't have- I mean, when I was in junior high, we did like Meet Me in St. Louis. Yeah, sure. And- The classics. Yeah, and I remember I had this, you know, the mustache that turns into sideburns

all glued on and there's some scene where, you know, I walk out and they throw water at me. And one of them, like the mustache stuck to the wall. And again, embarrassing, but big laughs. Yeah, I bet. Big laughs. Is that where you got the bug for laughs or no? I don't know.

I don't think so. I don't know where that happened. So you were interested in acting before Stand Up. I think I was, yeah. But I just didn't pursue it because I was doing standup, and acting was always part of it, but I just never could figure out. I took acting classes, but I didn't pursue it

because once you, I can't handle auditions, I couldn't then. And I never had really good representation. And my representation was always someone doing a favor to my manager, and I'd go into these auditions and just blow it. And then I'd walk in and I'd see actors I'd seen on television, I'm like,

what am I even here for? I know, I know. My first year in LA, I was like, there are very famous people in this room. Yeah, and people that are just better than me at this. Yeah, yeah. You know, whatever it is. Yeah You're a very good actor. Well, I appreciate that. I'm not blowing smoke as I'm on your pod

Why not? I appreciate that but you look at these jokes and there's a way to do that kind of acting Yeah, it was not what I had conceived of as as what acting was right just delivering these mediocre jokes Yeah, yeah, you know, yeah, I it really, by the time I started Stand Up, it was really, I rarely went out. Yeah. I mean, I didn't really start acting until I did my show. Right.

And then I had to learn how to do it in front of everybody. That was, first season was a little embarrassing. I don't think so. Well, that's a- It seemed very natural. Yeah, I can't look at it. I don't watch myself very much. Yeah. I mean, I do for Hacks because we edit the show,, I can't look at it. I don't watch myself very much.

I mean, I do for Hacks because we edit the show, so I can only edit, but otherwise, not a lot. Yeah, but you're very good at it. Well, thank you. And when I watch myself, what I see is like, just these moments where I'm like, I wasn't in it and I knew it that day and I don't know why the fuck they use that.

That thing, what am I doing with my hand? Yeah, oh God, what to do with your hands? That's why you just need business all the time, you know? But I'm naturally have business. It's to the point where I'm like, I'm doing the business with my hands. I'm like, this character wouldn't do this. And then you're in the middle of talking.

Why are you doing, why are you crocheting? Yeah, what's? Why do you just put his hands down abruptly? That was the moment he realized he was being himself. Yeah, yeah. But so you're at that high school and you're doing it? Yeah, so I'm doing theater there. And it was actually the first place

I started writing for myself. I wrote character monologues, because there was, at lunch, you could go to the Black Box Theater and perform for students who wanted to do that. So I guess it was- Well, people were just hanging around eating lunch in there? Yeah, you hanging around and eating lunch and that?

Yeah, you could go and eat lunch and it was like coffee shop vibes. Oh, that's good. Which was kind of good. That's good. So I started writing for myself. I like that idea. It was great.

Why don't they have coffee shops like that now? They should. Well, I mean, I know they have open mics and shit or like little shows at coffee shops, but just a coffee shop where there's just a stage. Right, where you could do that, yeah. Because people be annoyed. Yeah, I'm trying to get my pour over.

Especially in this town. Yeah. Where people are really delivering it. Yeah. All the frustration of not having a career comes out in these monologues in a coffee shop. That'd be hilarious. It's sort of a funny stuff.

Honestly, it might be good. Yeah, maybe. I just don't know how many people on their way to work would put themselves through that. Would wait online for their coffee. Just have this needy person. Yeah. What kind of monologues?

My first one was, I remember, was a Norwegian goat milk farmer. So it was a comedy monologue? It was a comedy, it was very much a comedy monologue. Thank God. Yeah, there was nothing serious about it. Yeah. I really wanted to dig into this guy.

Yeah, no, no, no, no, no. It was really about his trauma. Yeah, yeah, yeah. About his goats. Yeah. So I started writing for myself there, and then I did Governor School when I was in high school, which is like a summer program for theater. And then when I was looking at colleges, I ended up going to Duke, but I really, what I saw, I saw their improv group when I visited,

and I was like, oh, this would be a great, and there are plenty of schools that have improv groups or sketch groups, but that was the only one that I was visiting that, not only did I see it, it was like in their materials when they give you the brochure for the school, they were also in it. And I was like. So it's like a long-standing improv group.

Yeah, so I was like, okay, that sounds like the kind of thing I wanna do. Yeah. Which is so insane to be like, I'm gonna go to the school for the improv group, it's really wild. Well, who the fuck knows what they wanna go to school for? People in entertainment generally don't.

You're just buying time because you can to figure it out. I just had a realization that, I think I've always been kind been a performer for the laughs. I just remembered that when I was in third grade, me and this kid Jerry used to go in front of the class and do Sesame Street sketches. Yeah. You would just recreate them. Well, I'd be the straight man and he'd be Grover.

Yeah. That was the whole shtick. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And oddly that kid went on to do radio in my hometown. It's very strange. But was it originals or were you just? I think it was originals.

I think that, like, I don't think, I don't remember watching Sesame Street, but he did such a good Grover voice. Yeah, yeah. I could just, you know, set it up. I wish I remember what it was. Maybe I don't think about what really got me here as much as I should.

But it seems like it's always been part of the thing. Yeah. Yeah, in that sense. When I first, the first time I was like, oh, I can be funny, was just like doing an impression of Robin Williams in Mrs. Doubtfire for people, just doing lines from the movie and being like, oh, I can do this. Yeah. This is fun. I think I did it in Mrs. Doubtfire for people. You know, just doing lines from the movie and being like, oh, I can do this.

This is fun. I think I did it in class. I got kicked out of a school for being disruptive and I know it wasn't for angry disruption. It was just for hijacking the class. Class clown stuff. Yeah. Several teachers were like, I can't teach.

I forget about all this stuff. I had that too. You did? Yeah. They kicked me out of school. Wow. I never went that far. I guess I wasn't that good a clown.

They were able to rein it in. Yeah, I got a teacher hit me in the head once. Geez. For being a smart ass. Okay, yikes. Yeah, I needed a lot of attention. Badly parented. Yeah.

Yeah. So you're writing monologues. Yes, I was writing monologues. Goat farmer, that was a big one. Goat farmer, yeah. And then when I went to college, I did improv. And I was in a sketch group there. And that was just, so you're writing sketches.

Yes, but I was never writing, you know, like a show for myself or a pilot. And I wasn't doing standup there either. And I kind of wish I had been writing more just for myself. Well, that's a fucked up, not fucked up, but that's the great thing. Like, I can't really wrap my brain around the magic that it takes to make a show work as a writer,

because having done my show, like, I knew the shortcomings of whatever we were doing on Marin, and I knew that there were other shows that were inspired and brilliant. And it was just never my life. I was always concerned with being authentically myself. But like your show, I mean, the characters are so defined

and there's not really any false notes to it. And it's a pretty big world. And I just, I don't even, it's hard for me to. And I just, I don't even, it's hard for me to even imagine how that comes together. Well, we have a great writer's room with a lot of people that, some of them have lived the experience

of someone like Debra, you know? Debra. Gene Smart's character. Oh, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So like, you know, we have people like Carol Leifer and Janice Hirsch. Oh, Leifer's in there? She was in there for season three.

Okay. And we had, we've also had consulting producers like Merrill Marco. Oh yeah. Who consulted this year. Oh really? Yeah, so we've had people who have certainly lived the experience.

Yeah. You know, we have great standups in the room. Who's in there? Joe Mandy. Oh, I know Joe, yeah, he's on the show too. So funny, yeah, on the show as well. Pat Regan. Yeah.

Guy Branum. Yeah. Wrote on the show too. So funny, yeah, on the show as well. Pat Regan. Guy Branum, wrote on season three. So we have people from, like in our writers room that bring so much to it, but also I think, you know, we just, we very carefully consider the characters and care about them. And the casting. Yeah, and the casting is a huge part of it. Huge part of it, because to make that character be a believable standup,

it needs to be performed like one. And that is really hard. Yeah. You know, because you see standup in film and television and you can tell when it's like, this is an actor. Yeah. But you know, Jean, when she read the script, said, I've always wanted to do standup.

She said, when I was, you know, and maybe you'll have her on so I don't wanna spoil any of her stories, but she said, when I was 12, for a Halloween party, all the girls were princesses and mermaids and I was Phyllis Diller. I teased my hair and people were like, who are you? None of the other girls knew who I was. But she was like, I always loved it.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's kind of an amazing thing to do an original world, especially comedy, where it really kind of works. But I mean, that makes sense with those writers. It's just, it's really a matter of the group think of the whole thing. And people, you know, checking, you know, when you have people that live the life

who can go like, you know, this isn't authentic. I imagine that happens. Oh yeah, yeah. But all of us come from some comedy background, so whether it's being in a writer's room or, you know, having done improv and sketch, like, we all know what it's like to be a comedian and to hang out in the halls of UCB

and to what the love language is like for comedians because whether you're a stand-up or, you know, you're somebody who's just done improv, I feel like it's not dissimilar. You know, you know what the world is like. Yeah. And the show is very much about the different worlds of standup too.

Totally. Yeah, all the way down to the world now. Yeah. Yeah, but okay, so you're doing the improv at Duke, you're getting confidence as a sketch writer, getting laughs. The improv group's popular? You know, we did a big charity show. Catch Writer, Getting Laughs, the improv group's popular? You know, we did a big charity show.

We did like a fundraiser show for pediatric cancer research, which helped us get the basketball team to do the show with us every year. So that made it pretty popular. I'm not gonna say every show we did was popular, but that one was good. Yeah, and I tell you what, Shane Badier, who is the captain my freshman year, was really good at improv.

You know what? And I tell you, if they're as good as they are at sports and being in front of a huge crowd, it's not surprising. They were very confident and good. Oh, yeah? Yeah. That's funny.

And they were in videos, because we started to do more sketch videos, so they would do videos with us. So that was part of the thing, is it wasn't quite the internet yet, but you do the videos to put where? Great question nowhere. I mean, I honestly think I think YouTube was like starting them Yeah, I mean, you know, I'm gonna don't want to date myself, but I would myself off

I I think we started to put them on truly like maybe my sophomore and junior year, but in the beginning it was just, it lived on in the show. We played them during the show as we like changed games. Right, it was part of the show. Right, right. Interstitial stuff.

Right, but it wasn't like archived somewhere. Right. And now, it was shortly after that I feel like, it was like maybe a year or two after that, that Lonely Island started and people started getting their stuff out on YouTube. And YouTube became a- Was starting to happen.

Yeah. So when you graduated, you went right to New York? Yep, moved to New York. And then so YouTube was happening? YouTube was alive and well, yes. When you got to New York? Yes. So what was the process in New York?

So I started doing standup and I found it. Where? I did, there was a club on 14th Street that was new, that was brand new. My memory is so bad, this is actually scary. On 14th? 14th and ninth. Oh, oh, comics?

Yes, comics. That was a very high-end operation. Well, they had an open mic thing, but I had tech, which for them was like, what? At the time, it was very like, you have sound effects? Well, that's interesting, because that was like a supposedly, it was right in the meatpacking district. It was, yeah. Yeah, it was like this, we're gonna do it right. And the stage, it was tiered and nice showroom.

They had good food backstage, nice dressing room. There was a nice restaurant up front. They were overpaying everybody. It was nice. I mean, that's one of the nicer places I did. I also did stuff at UCB. They had a show. The original one?

The one under Gristides on 20th. Yeah, that's the second one. Not the one that used to be a porno thing. No, no, the second one. Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. So they had a variety show called School Night. But so when you did stand up at comics, you were just doing the open mic,

doing like five minutes. Doing the open mic, yep. I did a bunch of open mics. I did stand up New York, I did Gotham, I did an open mic there. Because you thought coming out of college, you know, that that was an avenue. Yeah, and I was also auditioning for things

and I continued to not vote. But it wasn't, you're necessarily, your obsessive passion was not, you didn't necessarily want to be a standup, did you? No, I wanted to be Robin Williams, so I just wanted to do it all. I kinda wanted to do everything. But I think primarily I was like,

well I hope all of these roads lead to doing comedy acting, being a performer that does a little bit of all of it. Yeah, what was your style as a standup, outside of that one joke? It was a little bit absurd. I would, you know? Right, yeah. What was your style as a standup, outside of that one joke? It was a little bit absurd. I would do like call and response stuff. But no improv stuff.

It's like bizarre. I didn't do a lot of riffing. There wasn't a lot of improv. Or characters. I did do characters. You did. Which at that particular moment, didn't feel, it didn't feel like a trend.

Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Like depending on where I went, like when I would do School Night, which was this variety show at UCB, it was standup and characters and songs and crazy stuff. So you could kind of do whatever, and it felt seamlessly, it felt appropriate for the set.

Well, there's a generation of people, like, and you're a part of it, I guess, in that. Your standup, despite the existence of sketch and everything else, is still like this very, not insulated, but it's a very specific path. And there's a very specific social structure around it. And even once, you know, alt comedy kind of

became this other stage with the Brooklyn rooms and whatever, you know, standup is standup. And it's limiting in a lot of ways. But like, it seems that the people that found UCB were like, oh, well this is, I can do anything here. Right, yeah, totally. And that was the thing, I think like some of the stuff I ended up doing at UCB because I started to do,

you know, one person shows at UCB. That could have been done potentially on a standup stage, but it just wasn't, especially for those- Not really. Not for those five minute sets. Yeah, five minute or even 15. You'd have to like, either you'd have to become a sellable headliner with a variety show

or whatever the hell you were doing. Or you'd have to get your own, do it in another space. And you know, some spaces were like, there was the Creek in the Cave was new to me. Well, yeah, that was later, yeah. And like, that was a place that I could, I felt like I could do stuff and felt more like myself. Like minded people were there.

Exactly, like what I considered my audience, because I was that audience was there. Right, and those places were popping up all over the place. They were. Like, Rafifis was still there. Yeah, yeah. With Merman and those guys, they're a little older than you,

but that was still there. Yeah. Yeah, and you know, pian that was still there. Yeah. Yeah. Pianos. Yeah. I never. Down there had a show, I think John Benjamin and Todd Berry, maybe Cross had a show there. They would have been the old guard

by the time you were coming up probably. Yeah. The original alt comics were already aging out. Yeah, yeah. Closing their rooms down. Well, what was your one man show? Was there singing? I did a few.

There was no singing. I appreciate that though. Thank you. Thank you for thinking that I can sing. I just didn't know what you were gonna do for an hour. No, I did. I did characters and absurd bits. And like I said, I did like call and response

and crowd work stuff. And yeah You know It was it was a lot. It was mostly it was mostly characters up, but I did videos I had videos that were like interstitial as I changed Wigs, you know, right and were those going up on the YouTube? Actually, you know, they never went on YouTube, but I had my first show The Paul Down Syndrome, and then I did another one, geez, I can't even remember, Full Blown Downs was my second one.

So who's at UCB at this time? You mean- Like who are the people that, who's your class? Is there anybody that's- Yeah, so Abby and Alana from Broad City are my class. Lucian Yellow, my partner, and my wife was my class. Yeah, you met her there. I did.

Aubrey Plaza was on my Herald team, my first Herald team with me. I feel like Zach Woods was a little bit before me because he started, I think, I think he was in high school when he started. So he was actually there earlier, but it was that generation of people. Right.

And it was a time when, you know. So after Aziz and Kroll. Yeah, a little bit after. But like Amy Poehler was that generation of people. And it was a time when, you know. So after Aziz and Kroll. A little bit after, but like Amy Poehler was still doing Askat. Yeah, okay. You know, and Seth Meyers was doing Askat. So like on Sunday night you could see Tina and Amy like perform.

So it was still. Dratch. You know, dratch, yeah, yeah. So it was still like, there was still like the original UCB4 would still be doing stuff. Teaching? Not teaching, they didn't teach anymore. Yeah.

I mean, they would for like special one-offs. Besser, Matt, Ian and Amy. I took, I think I took a Matt Besser one-off during like a Del Close marathon weekend, you know. He's intense. Yeah, he was intense, intense teacher. Yeah. Very intimidating, you know, he's one of the UCB4 and then you're in class and you're like. Oh, he's like, intense teacher. Yeah. Very intimidating, you know, he's one of these you've seen before and then you're in class and you're like.

It's so funny because I've known him forever in a way. But when he was younger, he always felt angry to me. Yeah. I always read him as like, there's a lot of rage in there and then years later I met him and we were hung out and we did an interview and he was okay. Yeah. He always struck me as like this guy, as an angry guy, I'm like, he's one of us.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So he did a workshop? So he did like a, yeah, he did like one class for the marathon. So I did that. Yeah. And so you were there when Abby and Alana

developed Broad City? Yes. Basically when we were there, you know, I had gotten onto a Herald team. Herald team being like the kind of, you know, it's one of the main stage shows that you like audition for and try and get on. I had actually auditioned with Abby,

I think multiple times. And Abby and Alana hadn't gotten on a team, and Lucia hadn't gotten on a team either. So Lucia and I actually started doing stuff at the Magnet Theater, which had been opened by Armando Diaz, and they all started doing their own stuff. Yeah.

Kind of like off shoot stuff. In fact, Lucia met Jen doing sketch videos with a group called Landline, which was happening sort of adjacent to UCB. And so it was around that time that Lucia was also like, hey, you and I should do videos because if you do an improv show, cool, a hundred people can see it.

But if we do videos and put them up, a lot more people are gonna see what we do. So we started writing original sketches and putting them online. And it was around that time that Abby and Alana were doing their Broad City web series, which Lucia ended up directing some of, and I was in the web series.

So that started as a web series. Yeah, for, I think they did like, so funny to call it seasons, I think they did like three seasons of a web series, yeah. And you were part of that? Yes, a little bit. You know, we were, like I said, we were contemporaries, all of us trying to do this stuff.

And I was more doing digital shorts with Lucia. Yeah, and those were successful? Yeah, they were pretty successful in that, you know, what is success on YouTube? Some of them went viral and were passed around, because at that time it was like, you know, people were passing these around on Facebook, you know, and you see them rack up the views.

Yeah, well that was the beginning of that thing. Yeah, and also weirdly, it was like at a time when SplitSider was a site that was reviewing digital shorts, and we'd be writing about stuff that you did. And yeah, it was around that time that then Above Average, which was Broadway videos, Digital Arm, started paying people to do sketches for their YouTube channel.

And so we were paid by Above Average to do do a sketch series and so that was our first like Paid job and what was that called? It was called Paulie Lou mixtape because Paul and Lucia we As the comedy nerds we are yeah did like a Desi Lou homage And so we called ourselves Paulie Lou and we we started you know making sketches for their channel who was running that operation making sketches for their channel. Who was running that operation? Jen Danielson was running it. For Broadway video? For Broadway video, yeah.

She had worked with Lauren and was at SNL forever and started doing that. We made a bunch of those and a lot of them were quite successful, which was great because that got us some attention for representation. It also, I think, was the only tape we had when Broad City was picked up to a show,

because Amy Poehler kind of agreed to EP the show and it went to Comedy Central and it was because of the stuff that we had been doing kind of sort of our parallel path to Abbie and Lana that they said, hey, would you guys write for the show? We know you're trying to sell your own show, but would you write for ours? And we're like, yeah.

And Lucia got to direct the pilot. So that was sort of, I guess, the beginning of kind of a, what's the word I want? Self-generating content that was being picked up by major outlets. Yeah, yeah. Because the way in before was you gotta pitch, you gotta do all this stuff,

but you were of that first wave of people, it's like, oh, we have 10 shows. Yeah. What do you think? Exactly, yeah, it was weirdly like a moment when web series or things that were happening online were getting people work, which it did feel new. Yeah, well, I think it was new.

Yeah. And so, and that enables you to go around the old school, paying your dues as a writing assistant or in a writer's room or any of that. Yes, yeah. I mean, we were in our first writers' room. We were one of like five people in the writers' room for Broad City,

and we had never written for TV. So we all kind of figured it out together. And it was a great training ground. Having stuff on Comedy Central was such a training ground for so many people, but for us in particular, it was like how we figured it out. And there's always, there's like as Comedy Central kept plugging along and got worse and worse,

you know, anything that stood out, it was like, oh, it's, you know, we got a thing. Yeah. Oh yeah. I can't even imagine or remember or what else would have been on Comedy Central at that time. Workaholics was on. Well, that was good.

It was just after Key and Peele. It was around the time of Schumer. Okay. So it was like a lot of people were like, you know. That was the new wave. Getting their first game. Yeah, but those were popular because it did go through a kind of

fallow time at some point. Yeah, and you know what's interesting? Kent Alterman, who took over and bought Broad City and all those other shows. I know Kent. Had done Strangers with Candy, however many years before when he was at Comedy Central. Yeah, he's been there forever.

He was there when I was like on Comedy Central before it was Comedy Central, I think. I've known Kent forever. Yeah. Like he was there at the beginning when Herzog and Eileen took over Comedy Central. And I think he left for a while to direct. Yeah, he did something.

I'd seen him around, I've seen him around here and there. But he was the guy. He was the guy who gave a lot of us our chance. And let Lucia direct a pilot for TV having only ever done stuff on YouTube. Well good for Kent. Yeah. Yeah. Are you in touch with Kent Alderman?

Oh yeah. We see him every now and again. Oh yeah? Is he doing all right? I think so. I remember there was a period there, the last time I saw him, he lost a lot of weight and he's being very healthy and I can't remember why, but he looked good.

Yeah, I think for good reason. Yeah. You know, I think it was, yeah, yeah, there was an issue, yeah. I think he's good. Yeah, he was there when I was exiled from Comedy Central and he finally told me the story. Oh.

I don't even know the story. Well, it was before you. I was like right when Eileen and Doug took over, they had left MTV to be the Comedy Central people. I was doing some show at the Catch Rising Star. I didn't know, but it was most of that all the new Comedy Central people were in the audience, almost like an office party or something.

And I just made one joke. I said, I'm glad that Eileen and Doug took over, left MTV to take over Comedy Central, because I think all television should look like a round the clock pie eating contest. And apparently, this is like within the first week or two. Oh God. And apparently they went on a corporate retreat.

Oh no. You know, and Herzog was like, no Mark Maron. No. On this, yeah, that joke. Oh God. Isn't that crazy? That something like that can happen. You realize that, yeah, you can say whatever you want.

Yeah, but there might be You realize that, yeah, you can say whatever you want, but there might be consequences. Totally, yeah. And I still love the joke. Yeah, well. It was pretty cutting. They don't do originals anymore, so it is more like that now.

Now it's no originals, that pipeline is gone. Yeah, and this was before they even got started, but just the fact that I was a topic at the first corporate retreat of the new regime of Comedy Central, no Mark Maron. That's so scary. That's the other reason that it's scary to do stand up. I mean, there's a million reasons, but it's like,

you're out there, you say something, and then you never know. Ken finally told me that. And I don't think Herzog is ever quite, well, who cares? Yeah, it's okay. And like, if I, and I've seen Herzog is ever quite, who cares? Yeah, it's okay. Yeah. And like if I, and I've seen Ted Kurtzog maybe three or four times over the last three decades,

and I still know, like in my heart, I'm like, there's some part of me that's like, yeah, I did that. Yeah. Like there's no shame in it. No. Just speaking truth to power. Right, but I don't know if it would be the same if I hadn't made it in some way.

Right, right, right. Like if I was just some like nothing. Right. You know, just kind of chugging away as a standup, I'd probably see Herzog and be like, hey man, so uh. Yeah, it would probably be different. Well the funny thing is, is all these guys,

even the guys in that power, they end up with a podcast. And I know that, I think Doug did a podcast, I'm like, all right, so. Did he? I didn't know that. Yeah, and he said some shit about me, so I'll never have him on my button. Okay, blacklist him.

I'm kidding. He's out. No Doug Herzog on WTF. So Broad City, did you act on it too? I did. I played Trey Pucker. That's right. The trainer at Solstice, the gym.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. And Abby had handed out flyers for Equinox, so she could get a membership. So that was kind of, and I went to Equinox, we both did, and so that was kind of based on, everything on this show was based on something. I like Equinox. That happened to one of us.

Yeah, it was nice. I'm going to Equinox. It was good. Like I'm sitting in Vancouver and there's one right down the street and it was like the greatest thing ever. I mean, in that way, it's worth it. Yeah.

I don't belong anymore. Why? What did you do? You know, thing ever. I mean, in that way it's worth it. I don't belong anymore. Why, what did you do? You know, I did resign around the time that like their CEO had been donating to Trump. But I also- I didn't even know that. I don't know, I also, it was just became a hassle to go. What do you do for exercise?

I have like a Craigslist purchase multi-use thing at my house. And then I go to this place, shout out to Ultra Body Fitness and Patrick McGran. I go there. I go there like once or twice a week. That's my fitness routine.

So after Broad City, what happens? You're a player? Yeah. Well, we were on Broad City, Lucia and I wrote, and both of us directed on the show, and I was on the show, and we did it for all five seasons. So it took up a lot of our time. And then when we-

But what an education, right? I mean, an amazing education, because we did it all. And it was very much like what we had done making YouTube videos, because, you know, I used to like hold the boom mic, and Lucia was in half of them, I would direct them, or I was in half of them, she would direct them. So we taught ourselves how to edit,

we taught ourselves how to color correct, we were just doing all of it, and it was such. So by the end of Broad City, you're an experienced showrunner. Yes, I mean, Abby and Alana were showrunning, but we certainly understood what that meant. Yeah. Yeah. On a manageable level.

Yes. With reasonable risk factor. Oh yeah. Like in the sense that like you're not, you're not carrying some network juggernaut. That was the best part was that it was because of what Comedy Central offered people like that, it was sort of a low risk situation.

I think we didn't even get many notes season one because people were like, let's try it out. They could take risks on comedy if they don't do anymore. Because now it's like, well, it better generate subscribers because it's such a huge hit or we can't do it. So that is, I think, a big, big crisis right now in comedy. There's just not a place that's low risk and you can cut your teeth and figure out your voice

and find your audience. Except TikTok and YouTube. Well, yes, that is the one place you can do it. You can do it on Instagram or on TikTok, I guess. Yeah, you're saying that there's not a lot of interesting new comedy voices being engaged on the major streamers or network television. That's the thing, I think it is all self-generated stuff.

I think it's, I mean, I think to a certain degree. And a lot of it's bad. Yeah. Well, that's an interesting idea, because even when I, for some reason, Maria Bamford just came to mind with her Miss Dynamite, is that what it's called? Lady Dynamite. Lady Dynamite.

Yeah, yeah. Which was, you know, she's a genius. She is. You know, but that, where are you gonna make that now? Yeah. I don't even know where it was. That's the thing, I don't know, it was? Yeah. I don't even know where it was. That's the thing, I don't know, it was on Netflix.

I don't know if they would do it now. No, no. And you know, when I moved to LA, and we actually moved to LA like the year Broad City was picked up. So we moved to LA and then started shooting a show in New York, so we went back for half the year. But when I moved to LA, I was like, you know what?

I'm in a new city, I'm gonna try standup again. Because I really did love it, but I never really found my footing. And it was kind of lonely. And I enjoyed the collaborative process of doing sketch and improv and, you know, having people like Jen and Lucia to work with. So I'm starting to do open mics in LA. I'm having a little bit more fun

than I did the first go round. And then I do a 430 open mic at a coffee shop in West Hollywood. Yeah. And Maria walks in. That's her prime time. Well, I stopped. I was like, the dedication it takes to work that muscle.

I was like, I can't. She had Lady Dynamite at the time. I'm like, you have a show on Netflix. How do you even have the energy, if you're the lead of this show, to do an open mic? Well, she's a unique thing. I mean, I wouldn't want to judge yourself against Maria's process.

I know, I know. I now know more about her. So I'm like, you know, I probably should have, I shouldn't have been scared off, but I was like, oh my God. She's the person that gets people on her social media is to sit there and run her act in front of them. Right, right, right.

I know. Now I know more, you know? But at the time I was like, oh my God. Yeah. Yeah. And so that phase didn't last too, too long. Yeah, yeah. I'm doing standup again in LA. So, but how does it unfold with like,

so Statsky is writing on Broad City as well? She was, she was writing on Broad City between seasons of Parks and Rec and then The Good Place. Oh, that's right, she did all that. Yeah, so she came up sort of in a more traditional writer's room scenario. You know, she worked at Fallon and then she was on a bunch of shows and yeah, really worked her way up the writer's room ladder.

So she knew real network television. Yes. Yes. So how did, you know, where does the idea come for hacks? We were going from Boston, both Jen and Lucia are from Massachusetts. And we were going- Where's your wife from in Massachusetts? She's from Western Mass.

She's from Hadley, which is right near Amherst. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So she grew up in the Amherst area. Yeah. Yeah. And another, weirdly a lot like my hometown. Yeah. Like a rural, like tobacco farms, weirdly. Yeah. Oh, really? Yeah, there's like lot like my hometown. Yeah, we're all like tobacco farms weirdly. Yeah. Oh really? Yeah

It's like tobacco and asparagus Wow, yeah, and was there a family in farming? No, there were they were in the restaurant business her dad owned an Italian restaurant She was born in Italy and she came here when she was one her dad is Italian Italian Her mom's Italian too, but born in Boston. Yeah. And yeah, they had a pizzeria and then an Italian restaurant in Amherst. No shit. Yeah, a couple actually. For the kids?

Was it popular with the students? I think that that's why they moved, because he initially worked in Boston, and I think he moved with his partner in the pizzeria to Amherst, because he was like, a lot of college kids. Yeah, eat pizza, keep it up and late. So I think it did very well and then they opened a restaurant. Boston Italians are no fucking around.

That's real shit. No, they're real Italian. And he's real real. Yeah. And is he a good cook? Amazing cook. It's almost like too good. It's like, don't visit too long

because you're gonna gain nine pounds. It's like, he's an amazing cook. And is your wife good? Oh yeah. With the Italian chef? Yes, her and her brother and sister both, they all inherited the gene. They're really good cooks, yeah. That's good.

Yeah. Okay, so Boston. Yeah, so we were driving to Boston because I was shooting a scene for my Netflix special, The Characters, which was a sketch special. Well, you did, you've done quite a bit of acting here and there, no? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I have. I mean, that worked out for you. It did. Was that mostly from the Broad City? Was that your real-ish? Um, that was probably my first, like, big recurring part, yeah. And I had done other things, you know, I had done other parts on other shows,

but that was my first big job. And then the character special, I got to kind of do my one-person show a little bit. From the old days, did you do the goat farmer? No, no, no. But I did, you know, I used to do a bit where I would come out as a visually impaired person on a Segway.

And I would just tap around with a cane on the stage on a Segway, that was the bit. And I got to kind of turn that into more of a sketch. But anyway, we were driving to Portland, Maine to a Monster truck rally., I brought Lucia and Jen because they are the funniest people I know. They always make me funnier. It was for a bit.

It was for a bit. I was like, can you guys come and help write some jokes? Because I was going, I was kind of doing a little bit of a Sacha Baron Cohen thing where I was going in character to an actual show, and they were gonna give me the mic. Because I emailed them and I was like, hey, I'm this enthusiast, can I come? So it was kind of scary, but also because it was improvised, I did need some help punching it up.

So they both came, and it was on that drive, we were talking about stand-ups, in particular, female stand-ups, who we didn't feel like had ever gotten the due that their male counterparts had. And we were also talking a lot about, you know, the kinds of, like, cool comedy, you know, what is... And it's not even cool comedy. I guess more of, like, the territorialism

that exists in comedy. Because when I was first doing stand-up, like I said, it was like, I felt like it was much more... They were like, you have sound cues? It didn't feel like it was... I felt more comfortable in, like, I felt like it was much more, they were like, you have sound cues? It didn't feel like it was, I felt more comfortable in like the alt scene. Which wasn't brand new. I feel like in San Francisco,

there was like riff culture in the 70s and 80s, and there was like weird clubs. Yeah, I was there for a couple of years. Yeah, they weren't weird clubs, but there was something about, because I went there after New York for two years, and there's something about just the nature of that city in terms of what it's always been defined by creatively.

Right. You know, and at the core of it, there was definitely rift culture, but there was also just straight standups. But the audiences, you know, New York, you gotta punch your way out of a goddamn, you know, metal bag. Yeah.

But there, like, they were kind of like, what is gonna happen? Right. You know, there was a different tone. Right. Yeah. But they're like, they were kind of like, what is going to happen? Right. Right. You know, there was a different tone. Right. Yeah. So we were just talking about like the different and how depending on what tone you were in,

and what group, what your scene was, the way there was judgment sometimes for other scenes, you know, what was cool comedy, and particularly how that existed between generations. How like sometimes you'd see a stand-up on a late night show as a young person coming up at UCB and be like, that person's funny. You know what I mean? You're like... No, totally. Yeah, because like there was something about just the context of traditional stand-up

that was stuck in time. Right. Like, you know, you even go into some clubs and you're like, what the fuck is this decor? Right. Is this 1983? Yeah. Yeah, and it's still like that.

Yep, yep. I mean, if you see posters for guys who play casinos, billboards, like when I'm in New Mexico or something, you know, and you're like, you know, Titus is playing at the, you know, I'm like, oh my God, it never changes. Yeah, especially in a place like a casino. Right, there is that, it's just stuck in this time and there's something just innately low brow

and kind of, not working class, but just kind of there is this standard of road comedy that never went away. Yeah, right. And it's comedy club culture. Yeah, yeah. Old school. Yeah.

So you're thinking about all this stuff. We're talking about that. And you know, the first time I ever saw a standup was Paula Poundstone. She was the first standup I ever saw because I used to watch Comedy Central had premium blend or premium roast. Premium blend, yeah.

Which they would do like little snippets of like Jeanine Garofalo's set or like Paula Poundstone. Or Kite Linger. Well yeah, before that it was Short Attention's Man Theater, which I hosted. Yes, yes. And Stand Up, Stand Up, which Kite Linger hosted. Yes, yes.

But you would have been a little kid. I was really young, but I used to watch it. Right. And not get it. But I wanted to be in on the joke. I wanted to get it. And you would see like Kite Linger and you'd see Garofalo and you'd see a lot of these female standups.

And then, you know, men who were doing it at the time, often you knew them, you know what I mean? But unless you were a comedy nerd who was watching and trying to get in on the joke, you might not know Paula Poundstone. So we were just talking about how that felt not fair. And also it was around the time that, you know, I feel like that piece of work documentary

had come out about Joan and how some people, you know, a younger generation didn't even know she was a standup. We're like, oh, doesn't she do like fashion commentary on red carpets? Right. You know, like didn't know her history in terms of standup. Sure.

Well, no one knows history anymore. I know. Yeah. So we were just talking about how it would be cool to explore that through these two generations of a younger comedian or younger comedy writer and this sort of like old school Vegas stand-up comedian. And we sent each other an email as we often did

when we had an idea for something. Yeah. And that was in 2015. And then we just didn't stop talking about it. Anytime we'd have dinner, we'd get together, or we would be up at night and be emailing each other, you know what's a funny scene? Or you know what would be a great episode?

Going back to her alma mater, or whatever. And so we just did that for like five years while we finished Broad City and while Jen finished The Good Place. And then once both of those shows had their finales, we said, okay, now's the moment we could pitch it. And at that point of the pitch, like how many of the characters were in place in your mind?

Because you know, the whole sort of like, the guy who plays her, you know, her business, the other businesses, the brand management guy. Her CEO. Right. Yes, Marcus. And then the casino owner. Yep.

What's that actor's name? Chris McDonald, Christopher McDonald. I'll never forget him in Thelma and Louise. He's amazing. And what a career. I mean, he's so good and really funny. Yeah. He's really, really good.

That role in Thelma and Louise, like I can never forget it. It's amazing. It's amazing. I watched it recently. It holds up, right? My God, yes. Just this.

So much. Control freak, weird man guy. Yeah, yeah. And I mean, he's in, you know, obviously he's shooting McGavin, but he's also in Wreck Room for a Dream. I mean, the man's career is really, he is an underrated actor.

Real character actor. Yes. And then, okay, so, and then like, when did you decide to put you in the role? I mean, the man's career is really, he is an underrated actor. Real character actor. Yes. And then, okay, so then like, when did you decide to put your character's side of the business in it? Was it always there from the beginning?

It was from the beginning. We knew we needed to connect these two women and we knew, we thought the manager would be that person. And we knew someone my age would represent someone like Ava, you know, who's like a young comedy writer. Yeah. But we were like, well, how can we get, and then we realized, well, maybe he is a, you know, his father was a big-time manager,

and he inherited her as a client. So my character was in there from the very beginning. Yeah, and Megan Stalter's character? Also in there from the beginning, not to the degree to which she became a part of the show, but she was always a part of it. We always wanted that. We are really interested in duos, you know,

like classic straight man character duos. So we knew that that was a good opportunity for a fun duo. Was she always the idea or was that just cast? So it was based on someone that we kind of knew in life, but then Meg started to do videos on Instagram. And part of her shtick was being like super self-confident and having bravado, but also being like a little bit,

a little bit stuttery and sometimes also, you know, like second guessing. And it was this great, it was this great dichotomy that we really thought worked for the person that we were thinking about. So we did think of her for it. And then I did it. So you knew her from her videos.

From her videos, but I had also, I had been on a standup show with her and seeing her live, I was like, this girl's special. She's really, really special. So she auditioned for it, but she was, there was no question. That's very funny. It's a very funny pairing. Thank you.

We have a lot of fun. We have a lot of fun. So you go pitch it to? We pitch it all around. Who said no? You want to know? Showtime said no. Apple said no.

Amazon said no. Hulu said yes. HBO said yes. And HBO Max was just launching. And they said yes. And I think that's it. Was it Nina? No.

At HBO? That bought it? Yeah. It was, well, it was Susanna Macos at HBO Max and it was Amy Gravett at HBO. Oh, Amy, yeah, sure. But because they were launching the streamer, they weren't gonna compete and it sort of felt like,

oh, well, the streamer does need content, this feels right, so it's gonna go to the streamer. And that's what it's on now? Yeah, it's on HBO Max, or now Max. Max. Yes. But like, what is the separation now? I mean, is it on HBO as well? You know, they have played an episode or two

from each season on linear HBO, but no, it's only on Max. So the difference is HBO proper is still linear. Yes, and HBO proper, all HBO proper shows are on Macs, but Mac shows aren't on the channel. Well, so that was sort of an interesting victory for you. It was great, yeah, it was great. That you popped their streamer.

We were one of the first ones, yeah. And it took. Yeah, it did. It's interesting that they don't run it in full on HBO. I think it's like a whole different contract and a different thing, you know, I don't know. Yeah. But yeah, it's been great because

I feel like so many people stream now, you know? Sure. It's found its audience. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my God. Yeah. So, and then you got kind of sidelined by COVID. Well, you know, we wrote, we sold it before COVID. Yeah. So, and then you got kind of sidelined by COVID.

Well, you know, we sold it before COVID. Yeah. And then we attached Jean before COVID. Yeah. Because we sent her the script. Yeah. She responded to it. Yeah.

Thank God she said yes. And then we were casting the Ava part. How'd you find Hannah? She did a pre-read for our casting directors. So we saw a tape and we were like, who is this? Had never seen her before. She had done a set on Colbert. So that was the only thing we could find.

As a standup, yeah. As a standup. But she was really unique and really good. Yeah. And we auditioned a lot of people. A lot of great actors read for it. Yeah. And then during COVID, they said,

why don't you just write the season? So we wrote the season. So you got the it. Yeah. And then during COVID, they said, why don't you just write the season? So we wrote the season. So you got the deal to write all what, 10? All 10. Yeah. We'd written the pilot, so we had nine left, yeah. So that was almost fortuitous.

In a way, it was. Yeah. And then we screen tested Hannah and Gene together during COVID before vaccines on an empty sound stage with like a sheet of plexiglass between them. And they were like six feet apart. So for someone like Hannah who's never been on TV, never had a callback,

to go into this like empty sound stage with Gene must've been so terrifying, but she was so good. She was so good. And our casting director said to us, there's one point at which in the pilot, Deborah says, oh, you're a fan of mine? What's your favorite joke? And Hannah blushes. In the audition, she blushes.

And our casting director was like, she just blushed. She just blushed. I mean, it's crazy, her like physiological gift. She's a really good actor. She's a great standup. Yeah, no, I love her. But she's crazy her like physiological gift. She's a really good actor. She's a great standup. But she's an amazing actor. Yeah.

So do you have that video of the plexiglass? I think, yes, I think we do somewhere. So crazy. Yeah. There's a few crazy things about that. Cause I had, when I started interviewing people in here again, through, you know, I figured out how to do it on Zoom,

but not on Zoom, but on another platform, which I hate it. I don't like not doing it in person. But it was still COVID was around, but people were doing things. And I had a plexiglass thing here, but it would have done nothing. I know, I know. We didn't know.

We were washing our vegetables. You know, it was a weird time. Crazy time. Yeah, really weird. Just going to the fucking supermarket, freaking out. We're not going. I like Instacart. Putting on fucking gloves.

I never did any Instacarts. And I never ordered food, and I never did stand up on Zoom. I never did outdoor stand up. I did one. I did an Instagram live stand up. And one Zoom. And then I was like, that's the only one.

Talk about weird. No one's like, you can't hear any laughter. It was so weird. I just couldn't do it. You know, and I mean, obviously I was dealing with the tragedy of Lynn's loss. Yeah, I'm sorry. Thanks.

But that, but that, but after that was still like, you know, I was just holed up here, but I didn't feel compelled to, you know, to do stand, I started doing Instagram Lives, which was good and bad, because a lot of the lonely people kind of latched on, and I had to stop. Because like that whole sort of parasocial relationship thing, as that was called,

where when people are holed up and you're on doing Instagram Live, I mean, something breaks in their brain and they're like, I'm gonna FaceTime with Mark now. Yeah, yeah, yeah, bizarre. But it did keep me engaged in some sort of dialogue to generate thoughts publicly. Yes, yes.

And that worked, but yeah, what a weird fucked up time. So you shot, COVID was still there, but they built the protocols. Yes, so we wore like two masks and a shield. We, you know, it was like the protocols were crazy. We're all in PTSD, because you're like even just talking about it. Yeah.

Like the zones. Yep. Yeah, the A, B, yes, the zones. And Gene, you know, was like around 70 and diabetic. Yeah. So we were like, well, she's a national treasure. We got, we gotta be careful, because she can't get COVID. It's very interesting, because I shot two Leslie in peak COVID, and the only time we wore a mask was when we were doing a scene.

Yeah, I know. So it became very, like there's an immediacy to it because there's this desperate need for engagement. Yeah. So it does heighten the thing a little bit. 100%. You know, just like masks off, action. You're very alive, yeah.

And you're like, let's get it done just in case somebody has COVID. Let's try it. Did anyone get COVID? There were people that got COVID, but nobody, no, I don't think any actors did. You were testing every three days on set? Every day. Every day.

Every day we rapid tested. Yeah. It was wild. My brain was mush because they put that thing up your nose. I had like calluses in my nose. So that was the first season? Yeah. Then I'm trying to remember, when was that long wait between seasons?

Well, so season two came out basically a year after. So we turned that around really quickly. And then season three, we had, you know, Gene had a cardiac issue and surgery, and then we had the two strikes. So it became like a huge, huge wait. We would have been finished pre-strike. So you survived COVID and then the strike happened

and that fucked the timing up on the third season. And then we took a long hiatus. And now this season was great. What a great ending. Thank you. Thank you. Did you know that going in? We knew that going into writing season three.

We didn't know that like the day we pitched it. We knew that season three would be about the quest to get this chair, the quest for late night. But we, and we knew that Ava would become her head writer, but we didn't know she would take it until the first week of season three. But we did know it very, very early on in the writing. And now how's the next season shaping up?

We're in the middle of writing season four. Really? Yeah, which is crazy. But it's great. I mean, we left on such a propulsive note. It's been fun to play the dynamic, but there's a lot to also wrap your arms around. Because, you know, we're writing about late night

and we're writing about the state of comedy and the state of technology. So there's a lot that we wanna say in the season. And so that's, you know, it's a tricky house of cards. So now, but now you're effectively a producer of the new late-giant show, who's at odds with Gene a bit. Well, I'm at odds, well, I don't wanna give too much away, but you know.

Yeah. Things are fraught. Right. Things are fraught. Right. Things are fraught. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So now like- But it's fun. Gene's on the defensive.

Yes. And also- But has to do the job. I now have no longer an assistant. I have a partner in Kayla. So that's a whole new dynamic. There's a lot of new dynamics at play, which is fun. And Hannah's gotta be a hard ass. Yeah, she's a Dom. Yeah, yeah.

Evil Ava. Big shift. Yep, yep. So we get to see all of her hidden, power hungry. That's right. She's got that fuck ass bob. She's coming in with that short haircut. Yeah, yeah.

You know? Yeah. That's gonna be good. So it's fun, yeah. And I think it's fun for everybody to have a new gear. Yeah. Well, I mean be good. So it's fun. Yeah. And I think it's fun for everybody to have a new gear. Yeah. Well, I mean, that's what's amazing about the show is that you were like the return

to stand up and then this thing, the shift for the late night thing. And now, I didn't know how that was going to go at the end of the season. What do you do now? Yeah. And she gets the gig and then the power dynamic shifts. And then it's like how it must be a thrill going into the fourth season to really like, we got a whole new game here. And you know, and it's not, we're not faking it. You know, this, we haven't jumped any sharks. There's no, we're not riding on, right? There's, we're not repeating ourselves.

No, it's, it is all new, it's all new. And that's the thing that's been the challenge, but also the fun is that we try to blow up the relationship every season, and yet also reset the dynamic, because the grist between them, that friction is where the comedy is, where the fun is. So they can't just be in perfect harmony,

and yet we want them together. And so this season being able to handcuff them together at a time and now create sort of the biggest friction between them is proving fun. Yeah, it's gotta be exciting to write. And who's in the room, same people? Yeah, mostly all the same people. We did promote Carolyn Lipka,

who was our writer's assistant last year. She's a staff writer this year, which is great. That's great. And then you've got all these Emmy nominations. Yeah. Who are you up against? We're up against Abbott Elementary and The Bear and Only Murders in the Building.

Oh my God. And I should know them all, but. And so that's like now this sort of publicity machine is just gonna take over. Yeah, yeah. But you know, we're in the writers' room, so it's like. It's not, I mean, what's done is done. The focus is the room, you know.

Yeah, but is everyone out doing press or what? We, yeah, we do occasionally Do you know a panel or a yeah, but? But yeah, the room takes up most of the time. Huh? Yeah, I get gene in here. Definitely You'd have fun with her. I know I don't look I don't know I know she doesn't do this stuff much, but she should I'll tell her will you I will I will I And we all do that. We always advocate when we think something is,

she would enjoy. Because she just doesn't like doing things? No, like I said, she loves to work. She's just so busy working, you know? But she also has a 13 year old kid and she's, you know, she's, she just moved. There's a lot. She's always busy.

She, you know what? She just did Colbert. Okay. She there's a lot. She's always busy. She, you know what, she just did Colbert. Okay. She does Seth a lot. Yeah. I don't know if she's done Kimmel. I don't know. Fallon? I don't know that she's done Fallon.

Yeah. Interesting. Yeah, but I don't know, you know, I don't know if that's by design or what. Well, it was good talking to you. Great to talk to you. I'm excited about the fourth season. Thank you. I hope you win the prizes. That's very talking to you. Great to talk to you. I'm excited about the fourth season.

Thank you. I hope you win the prizes. That's very nice. Thanks. Okay. Great guy, smart guy, funny guy. It's I, you know, just what an amazing achievement to write an original comedy series that is surprising and honest.

I don't know how they do it, but I know a little more now. Paul is Emmy nominated for Outstanding Supporting Actor in a Comedy Series and Outstanding Writing for a Comedy Series. So hope you enjoyed that. Hang out for a minute. In the upcoming season of Only Murders in the Building, our trio's investigation leads them all the way to Los Angeles, where a Hollywood studio is readying a film about the Only Murders

podcast. Amidst all the glitz and glamour, there is still an underlying mystery to be solved. It's who tried to kill Charles. Only Murders in the Building stars Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez. Joining the star-studded ensemble this season are Eugene Levy, Zach Galifianakis, Eva Longoria, Jane Lynch, and Meryl Streep. Season 4 of Only Murders in the Building premieres $20 per month on Rogers Internet. Visit Rogers.com for details. We got you, Rogers. Hey, full Marin listeners have another trip down memory lane to check out this week.

We posted some segments from my radio show, Morning Sedition, including talks with my mom and Ben Folds. Yeah, I wrote a song with Nick Hornby, the guy that wrote High Fidelity and Backboy and all those things. And he just kind of cooked up out of his head this really cool story that happens to be really pretty close to Chattner's life

without even knowing it. So it was, yeah, things came together really cool. It was really, really neat. Somehow he just cooked up a story about a Jewish guy from Canada who became a Starfleet commander. Yeah, it's just like he had a really cool way. It was really neat. Somehow he just cooked up a story about a Jewish guy from Canada who became a Starfleet commander. Yes, he had no idea. He was like the Nostradamus.

I guess so. What was it about Shatner? Was this done with a campy sensibility or some sort of honest respect for his musical talents or is there a difference for you? I think it was honest respect for his life experience and his acting. He's a really talented cat. I think he can take that for granted to someone who's kind of been a thing in the business for that long.

He's amazing. It's a good record, but it's got some funny stuff. He's funny and he can't help that. So that's in it, but it's got some funny stuff. I mean, he's funny, like and he can't help that. So that's that's in it, but it's also serious as well. To subscribe to the full Marin and get bonus episodes twice a week, as well as every episode of WTF ad free, go to the link in the episode description or go to WTF pod dot com and click on WTF plus. And a reminder before we go, this podcast is hosted by Acast.

Here's some sludgy guitar that I kinda fucked up towards the end, but you know, that's just the honesty of it, man. So So So So So So Boomer lives. Monkey will find the cat angels everywhere. That one got away from me a little bit. It's alright. It's alright. Boomer lives.

Monkey will find the cat angels everywhere. That one got away from me a little bit. It's alright. It's alright. Boomer lives. Monkey will find the cat angels everywhere. That one got away from me a little bit. It's alright.

It's alright. Boomer lives. Boomer lives. Boomer lives.