WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1568 - Greg Fitzsimmons

Episode Date: August 26, 2024

Greg Fitzsimmons returns to WTF after a 13 year absence, but his dynamic with Marc remains the same as it was when they were comics starting out in Boston almost four decades ago. With a new comedy special out, Greg talks with Marc about his unhealthy relationship with worry, how he broke the self-destructive cycles of his family, and how his relationship with Marc evolved from trying to get in a fistfight with him backstage to reminiscing about their road stories and hard-earned victories. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Go back to school with Rogers and get Canada's fastest and most reliable internet. Perfect for streaming lectures all day or binging TV shows all night. Save up to $20 per month on Rogers internet. Visit Rogers.com for details. We got you, Rogers. Hey folks, let your imagination soar by visiting audible.ca. Audible has the best selection of audio books without exception, along with popular podcasts and exclusive Audible originals, all in one easy app. Whether you listen to stories, motivation, expert advice, basically any genre you love, you can be inspired to imagine new worlds, new possibilities, new ways of thinking. Listening can lead to positive change in your mood, your habits, and ultimately your overall well-being. Enjoy audible anytime while you're doing other things. Household chores, exercising, on the road,

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Lock the gates! Alright, let's do this. How are you what the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fucksters? What's happening? I'm Mark Maron. This is my podcast. Welcome to it.

One of the originals of the medium. Always still audio. Just talking to you in your head. You know, on your little speaker. In your car. You don't have to watch anything. Just talking. We're just talking here. There's an organic thing to it.

Do you know what I mean? There's just this, just me and you. Or perhaps me, you you and whoever's sitting there tolerating me or perhaps it's me you and one of your kids or two of your kids where you have to explain what something means or why you think that guy is funny. I know there's a lot of different scenarios but ultimately it's a fairly candid intimate intimate conversation. And on that note, today on the show, I talked to Greg Fitzsimmons. Greg Fitzsimmons has been on the show a few times

back in the day. He was on a very early episode of WTF with some shorter segments, and he did a full one, I think it was back in 2011, episode 139. But Greg and I go back. We go way back. He's got a special coming out this week. It's called Greg Fitzsimmons, You Know Me.

But we go way back, man. I mean, back to the beginning, I think he might've started a little after me in Boston, but over the years, we have a thing, we have a dynamic and it is friendly, but sometimes it feels like it's right on the edge. Uh, I texted, uh, Brendan, my producer. I see, you know, he said it was great. We have a, we have a good dynamic and I'm like, yeah, it's taught.

It's, it's a littleaut, but there are those kind of sort of friendship dynamics that got a little edge to them and you're waiting to get stuck a little bit, but it's pretty funny. God damn it, I love funny people. I love funny people. I went to a party the other night, hadn't been to a party in a while with a lot of comics,

and I was like, people I've known for years, and I was just, holy shit. I'm able to laugh a little more. Maybe I'll talk about that. Look, Greg is on the show today. It was funny. It was, it's a humorous intensity, I think, that we kind of

Engage in I keep in the loop as much as I can. I did spend about 12 minutes in my car. I Had driven somewhere to run an errand. I was going to look at some new frames for my head To to kind of try to get me into some place where I can understand the character I have to play in a movie next month or in October. And I sat in my car and I, cause I had started a reel on Instagram and it was literally, I don't, it was, I think Chinese because because the the caption was in Chinese and It looked like a car had been taken out of the mud

it looked like a car that had been in a flood so it was covered with mud and There was no way to get into the car. It wasn't a great car. It was just an okay car I couldn't even tell if it was new or not, but it wasn't like some classic automobile. And I watched somebody wash it off, take it all apart, clean off the rust, foam clean it, and put it back together. And at the end it was just an okay car, but it was salvaged. But the point is I couldn't get out of my car because I was watching someone clean a car for like 10, 12 minutes. It's very satisfying. It, there's a lot of weird satisfying things, but there's nothing more clearly

a dopamine hit than the sort of satisfaction. I mean, back in the day, I mean, I used to enjoy watching my clothes in the dryer. I felt like I was doing something. I wasn't doing anything. I had shown up with the clothes at the laundromat, and I guess that was a big deal. But there was something satisfying about watching my clothes in the dryer. So maybe it's that impulse Or that that kind of connection that is really what? Watching your phone is all about it's no different than finding satisfaction in watching your clothes

Tumble dry. Is there a way we can get back to that folks? It was that can we get back to that America where you could just sit and watch your clothes dry and maybe think a bit on your own? Maybe read a book, maybe look at the vending machine, maybe get a box of the little box of a detergent. Sure. Maybe look at the other people, maybe wonder, you know, what, why, why was that piece of clothing left there?

Is that anybody's? does anyone work here? Does anybody work here? Man just watch I've watched drains work. I've watched unclogging drains on Instagram I watch large pieces of dough made into things. It's the same thing. We've got to get back to the drier people. I'm telling you man, we had at least had some control over our brains then. You know you could, there was a meditative quality to it because you were in the world. Your clothes were drying. You know, maybe you sat out front of the laundromat, smoked a cigarette. That was the days, huh?

Wow Look I'll be in Tucson, Arizona at the Rialto theater on Friday, September 20th Then I'm in Phoenix at the Orpheum theater on Saturday, September 21st. I just had to reschedule my dates in Illinois Napa in Sacramento. Sorry So, you know, this is it. Yeah, I'm gonna, I have an opportunity to do this flick, this movie, this piece of cinema for October

and a bit of November here in LA and I'm gonna do it. And if you're still with me on the other side of that, great. I'm just, I'm just figuring stuff out, man. I'm 60 and I'm, you know, it's not bucket list stuff. It's just opportunities that have come from me doing the work I have done. And I'm going to take those opportunities and then see if I enjoy them. And if I don't, uh, I'll figure something else out. It sounds like I might start going to laundromats and just watching dryers.

That's not bad. Yeah. go in the laundromats and just watching dryers. That's not bad. Yeah? Go to WTFpod.com slash tour to get dates for the shows that were rescheduled in 2025 and to get tickets for all upcoming shows. I am moving towards a HBO special taping. I have to get that hour back up there. Let's do a technology advertisement. This episode is brought to you by Squarespace! And you've heard me talk about Squarespace for years, but now there's even more reason to get up to speed with the latest Squarespace tools. They have a completely new design system called Squarespace Blueprint, which is how you build your online presence from the ground up with a professional layout and style options, then

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WTF get started today Today WTF offer code WTF get started today Today Yeah, you know being up in Vancouver being out of town Then coming back in I don't know man. I I think sometimes I think I'm kind of a cranky loner But I'm not I love hanging out with people You know, I don't know if I'm I don't know I don't know if I can go on vacation

with people, but I like hanging out with people. Like, I did a couple weeks ago I did Bobby Lee's Tiger Belly and we, I love that guy. We had so many laughs. Got some good laughs with Greg Fitzsimmons today. I went out to, I went to a party, two parties last night. That's big. Brendan Small from Metal Aqualips, who I've known forever. He had a little get together. I don't think I've seen him since before the pandemic. It's crazy, where does the time go?

And I don't think the pandemic is the only reason that fucked up my time. I know, I keep hammering it, but I'm 60. And I don't know where 50 to 60 went. It's like a black hole. But now I'm seeing people for the first time in years that I felt like I used to see at least once a year. But yeah, I got to catch up with Brendan. That was nice. He showed me some of his weird new guitars. I saw Pat Healy, great actor. Him and I go way back. I'm not nostalgic. I'm not looking back, but it's always good to see people and just have that moment like yes

Yes Still alive fucker Then I went over to Dana Gould's birthday party. Now that was a collection of geniuses Geniuses, I don't know what you know about comedy or who you think is great at comedy But in that room over there at the Tamm O'Shanter, on that patio, some truly funny fucking people, Dana being one of them, Dana Gould has always been a brilliant, genius fucking comic. Always, always, see that's really the issue with me,

is that I know what funny is, and I know there's a difference between me going like, oh fuck, that's really good, and me genuinely laughing. The combination of them sometimes has to, you know, I have to get over my resentment of their being funnier than me, or whatever I think is funnier than me, because I can never think of what they thought of,

or make myself laugh as much as they just made me laugh. But that's all sort of going away, you know, that resentment trip. It's just going away mostly. Mostly. But at Dana's party, it was like Dana was there, Patton was there, Blaine Capac, another wizard, Matt Winehold, San Francisco genius, who I haven't seen in a long time. Laura Keitlinger was there.

Maria Bamford. That's like, that's some powerful, hilarious people. Lorraine Newman was there. It was, and I'm not dropping names. I'm just like sort of happy to be part of that community and just talk to people. Any of those people I could walk up to and within 16 seconds, like huge laugh.

Oh fuck, you gotta laugh, man. Oh my God. Dana was funny, they brought his cake out and it was a picture of him on the cake from high school. And you know, he's just one of those guys, I'm just waiting for him to be funny, you know, and he gets up in front of everybody and he's like, I'm not good at this. And he said, there's never a good time to say this, but I'm dying. Oh, God. He's a dark motherfucker. So funny. Alright, look. Greg Fitzsimmons, again. Very funny guy. I've known him a long time. It was fun to have him on.

His new stand-up special, Greg Fitzsimmons You Know Me, premieres tomorrow, August 27th on his YouTube page. This is me and Greg talking again. We got you, Rogers. Go back to school with Rogers and get Canada's fastest and most reliable internet. Perfect for streaming lectures all day or binging TV shows all night. Save up to $20 per month on Rogers internet. Visit Rogers.com for details. We got you, Rogers.

Hey folks, it's been a new experience for me up in Vancouver. I've had to arrange a little life for myself while I'm there. I get comfortable living in a new country for a while. Thankfully, I've been able to go back home every couple weeks or so, which helps me keep grounded. But if I wasn't coming home regularly, that would be four whole months I'd be up in Canada. Which means four months my place is sitting there empty. That would be a good scenario to host it on Airbnb and make some extra cash.

So think about a situation that you've got coming up where you won't be at your place. We all have vacations or extended stays somewhere else. While you're away, your home could be an Airbnb. But it doesn't have to be your whole home. A guest house works, even a spare bedroom. If you're like me and you like showing off where you live, now's your chance to do it and make some extra cash at the same time. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at airbnb.ca

slash host. Alright? Alright. I was trying to figure out, you know, what we talked about the last time you did this, but I think the last time you did this was like the first year of the podcast. No. I think so. Episode, well, all right. So 139, and that was 2011. 13 years ago. 1939 and that was 2011 13 years ago. Let's see what the description says comedian author and podcaster Greg Fitzsimmons is

Back on the show. Oh his first time on Mark's home turf. Where the fuck were we the last time they chatted it got a little heated This time they're looking to bury the hatchet, but they'll take a few swings at each other with it first. And yeah, so I guess that's probably what we're gonna do today. All right. I can't, I don't know what the fuck we're, I don't, I don't, I'm sure, I'm not sure I even know what the weird issue is that we have, but it's all right. Well, I think that the tension is that we started at the same time in the same place. And I think- Was it exactly the same time?

No, you started a little bit ahead of me. Yeah, before you, right? Yeah. And you were around- We went to the same time? No, you started a little bit ahead of me. Yeah, before you, right? Yeah. And you were around? We went to the same college. We were both English majors at Boston University. But when did you graduate? 89.

Yeah, I graduated in, fuck, 86, and I graduated a year late. So I was supposed to graduate in 85. I remember seeing you on campus. Come on. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We hung out in front of Hamilton House one time. Hamilton House.

It was up on Com Ave where it splits with Beacon Street. What the fuck was I doing up there? How would that's why? For answers. West campus. Yeah. Well above West campus. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I remember I, I'll talk Boston

because I'm trying to keep my memories together before they all go away. I know. Because I texted you yesterday, that must have been a weird text. Can you just confirm that Billy Downs was the guy that booked The Comedy Connection? A place where I never worked really.

Billy Downs not only booked The Comedy Connection, but he had a bunch of one-nighters. What was the Parrot one? Around New England. Oh, the something Parr, but he had a bunch of one-nighters. What was the parrot one? Around New England. Oh, the something parrot. Yeah, what was that one? I did that with that big, you remember that comic, the big dude,

he was kind of goofy and he always wore a Hawaiian shirt? The fuck was that guy's name? Always wore like a Hawaiian shirt. DJ Hazard? No, not DJ. Was the guy with the motorcycle? Kind of like a burly guy? But a real nice guy. He of like a burly guy. But a real nice guy.

He wasn't a burly personality. I can't remember the guy's name. I don't know if even- But Bill Downs was a guy that used to book you and then not necessarily pay you. And so Bill Downs was called No Money Downs. And then after he owed you a certain amount of money, he would do this buyout thing where you felt like And then after he owed you a certain amount of money,

he would do this buyout thing where you felt like you were never gonna get paid. So he'd give you 60 cents on the dollar. And that was just a way of doing business. Yeah, because it was all cash. And what the fuck were we gonna do? We were no agents. Start shit with the Booker? Right, so here's what I did.

He owed me about $1,200, which does not sound like a lot of money right now. Back then, that was four months rent. That's a lot of money. So I go up to do a gig in New Hampshire at one of his shows, because the gigs were all just like. Which one was that one?

Hampton Beach, it was a Chinese restaurant. It was always a Chinese restaurant that had a banquet room in the back. I was trying to remember the names of these places. I just wanna do that the whole time. All right, it's Hampton Beach, Chinese restaurant with the room in the back. And so I show up. The function room. And yeah, there's like every,

when the comedy boom started, they realized that Chinese restaurants all had banquet rooms. All they had to do, comedy was so hot. Hang a sign up front that says Comedy Tuesday Night, and then just start charging tickets. And they paid us, the headliner was getting 200 bucks, the feature would get 75, the opening would get 25.

So for less than $300, they would charge 200 people 15 bucks a head. Yeah, whatever the math. Yeah. And meanwhile, the marketing was hanging the sign out front. There was no advertising budget. And so- He never knew what you're driving into, man.

So I get to this gig and before I go on stage, I go, oh, Billy, I said, I was the feature act. I go, I forgot my watch. I don't wanna go long. Can I borrow your watch? So he gives me his gold watch. Billy Downs. Billy Downs. When he was up there, I was the feature act. I go, I forgot my watch, I don't wanna go long, can I borrow your watch? So he gives me his gold watch. Billy Downs.

Billy Downs. When he was up there, was it like the first night of it or something? Oh, that's the thing about these gigs, these guys would show up in person because they didn't want the ticket digger. It was all cash. They wanted that money in their hand.

Wow. So I get the watch, I finish my set, I dart out the side door and I go home. And the next day I get a call and he goes, hey, big guy, everybody's big guy. He forgot to give me my watch back last night. I go, no, Billy, you forgot to pay me $1,200. And he goes, okay, you got me, guy.

And so I said, all right, meet me at Dunkin' Donuts in Kenmore Square, brown bag, meet me at Dunkin' Donuts in Kenmore square. Brown bag cash. Let's do this. Yeah. And he met me and he looked at me with full respect, one shyster to another. Yeah. And I got the money.

You met him where he lives. Yeah. Oh, I think the very first paid gig I did was, uh, for Mike Clark, the Derby Pack, the Derby Pack in Lowell. Yeah. And I opened for Chris Cino. Yeah.

And it was just like, it was like, there was kind of a stage, but there was like a brass railing around it. Yeah. And it was up in the corner. And I was just, I was thrilled to be in Lowell, I think. Of course, where Jack Kerouac is from. That's right. You know, but like there I was just, I was thrilled to be in Lowell, I think. Of course, where Jack Kerouac is from. That's right.

You know, but like there I was in this shitty bar and I'll remember at that place, there was always a woman up front talking to you, like she was in conversation with you. You know, you do your bits and she's like, that's not right. Yeah, well, that's sort of how I sum up comedy in Boston, is there is no implicit understanding

that because you're on stage, you're the funniest person in the room. You have to prove it every time. You have to assert alpha dominance on the road. I don't know how the fuck I did it. It made you a better comic. Of course, I mean, the way we paid our dues when everyone is out there doing opening swats,

it's like you get thrown into that thing, and it's like, you gotta do a half hour, the way we paid our dues when everyone is out there doing opening squats, it's like you get thrown into that thing and it's like, you gotta do a half hour, the other guy does 45. There was no 10 minute spot. When you started working there in those one-nighters, you had to have a half somehow, right? But wait, so what year did you start? 88, 89.

So that was the year that I came in second in the riot. The riot. Yeah, it was, Summa Guinness took first. She was great. Was she? Yeah, she was great. She's a sweetheart. She had this bit about going on a date with a guy.

Oh, the shitting bit? She shit in the toilet and went flush. And she put it in a napkin, put it in her purse. And then the guy's dog was sniffing around her purse. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha It was like, you know, it was whatever was left by any number of comedians that lived there. There was some great moments in that fucking house. Well, that's where cross-comedy sort of germinated, didn't it? Yeah, I kind of started, you know, I think I was there with him developing that.

I was on the first one and I helped come up with the idea, but when they decided to like all move to LA to become bonafide comedy stars, I'm like, I'm going to New York. I'm gonna fucking hammer it out as a standup. I don't like this group thing shit. Yeah, yeah, it was a good choice. I remember being in that house once.

Oh God, there were some great moments in that house. And I remember you were on the phone in the hallway. I guess it was one phone on the wall. There was a phone, right, it ran from the kitchen. And you were in there and everybody was like, shut up, shut up, shut up. Mark's on the phone with Bud Friedman. Oh my God, really?

We were like, wow. Yeah, I don't even remember that call. That's the impact it had. The things I remember about that place, because I would sleep in, I didn't really have a house. And I wasn't really living there in my recollection. I don't know why, but because I must have been living in New York or coming back and forth,

but I would sweep in Dave's room when he was sweeping in his girlfriend's, or I'd sweep on that fucking couch in the living room surrounded by Bob's life. The records, the tapes. There's always like these porn tapes and then there was like hundreds of records and all kinds of shit.

Carl Perry was living there. Do you remember that guy? Matt Graham? Yeah, Matt Graham. Matt Graham was there. Matt Graham and champion now. Scrabble. Oh, Scrabble.

And there was just some fucking moments there. One night, me and Graham were there, it was after everything had closed down, because he was a fucking drinker, dude. And we're fucked up, and we're sitting in that kitchen table and we're grinding up Vibrant. Yeah, like to snort it. Just a fucking over-the-counter.

Speed. Yeah, but it's not even speed, it's caffeine pills. But we're fucking shit-faced. And we're grinding it up, and it's yellow, and it's this powder, and we're snorting it. And it's not gonna do anything. And Bob walks in from his restaurant job, he walks in the kitchen, he looks at us and goes,

I'm not going to tell anyone about this. Then there was the other time because Carl had problems. He was in an institution of some kind to get sober or something. I just remember it was the most brilliant thing. There's a couple of moments where people say things off the cuff or I'm like, where the fuck did that come from? And it was like, I was in the living room and I asked Matt,

I said, is Carl going to get out soon? And Matt goes, not unless chief can lift the sink. That's great. That's hilarious. That's great. Now, when I, speaking of opening for people, I had, I think, cause the thing is, when you were starting out,

if you had a driver's license and you had 15, 20 minutes, you could make a living. You could go out and make 25, 50 bucks a night, but rent was only 250. Yeah, you might have to drive a couple hours. But that's my point. If you, none of the headliners had driver's license. They all had DUIs. So you would have to pick up-

And they're all half criminals, yeah. So you would have to pick them up. So at one point, Dominic Ventry, the guy at the Knicks comedy stop, he goes, yeah, you gotta pick up a couple comics and bring them out to Framingham. They had a Knicks in Framingham. Briefly, I remember that room.

So I go downtown. Yeah. And I've got a four cylinder Volkswagen Rabbit. It's a four speed. And I pull up to the club and out walks the two comics. John Panett and Mike Sullivan Irwin. You remember him? I do.

He was a nice guy. He was a great guy. Bigger, bigger than John Panett. Really? And Panett was a good three 25. Michael Sullivan Irwin with the ponytail. Oh, he had a ponytail. He had blonde hair.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Nice guy. So they pile into my car. They look at my car, they look at each other, and they just start giggling like children. They get in the car, and I'm driving it, and I'm supposed to get on the mass bike right downtown. And I can't get the car out of second gear.

Yeah. And so I had to take route nine instead of the turnpike. Because of the wait? Yeah, it took like an hour to get out there because I had to take Route 9 instead of the turnpike. Because of the weight? Yeah, it took like an hour to get out there because I had to take Route 9. Oh my God. I remember one time I'm driving around with, do you know Eddie Gosling from Texas?

He used to be big and like he got lean, but when I first met him, he was like huge. And he drove, it was like a little, like a Toyota truck or something. I don't remember what it was, but he's packed into that driver's seat, and we're going to get barbecue. And every time he would turn, the horn would go,

ah! And I go, what the fuck's wrong with your car? He goes, my fucking stomach. Oh my god, dude. I guess we left her. We went down to that gig. No, we went to the actual sub base in, I think it's Groton, Connecticut, right next to there.

And it was 1991. Yeah. And I'm with John Groff and we get a call like a week before the gig. And this is when it was imminent. The first Iraq war was about to happen, the strikes. So they call us and they get our social security numbers. The first Iraq war was about to happen, the strikes. So they call us and they get our social security numbers,

they ask us like a million questions to get clearance to get on the base because they're on high alert. So we're driving down, we're listening to a Red Sox game on the radio and then they cut in to say the attacks have started. And so we're halfway down, we pull over to a pay phone and we call up Denise Kirk, who's booking the gig. Sure.

And we say, we're assuming turnaround. Yeah. And she's like, I just called them. Keep going, keep going. We get to the base, we get to the check-in. Yeah. And they look in the car, they ask us a million questions, we get in

and there's the rec room and there's two rooms. One has a big screen TV and everybody's watching TV and it's the war. Bush is addressing the nation, CNN is, and in the other room is the stand-up comedy room. And so we walk in and they announce that the show is starting and literally every single soldier left the TV room and came into the comedy room.

And we had the most killer fucking show. Wow. Yeah. Because they didn't know what was gonna happen tomorrow. Well, or they did. They didn't need to hear all this because they were already downloaded on everything that was about to happen. And they wanted to have a laugh before they went off to...

Great show. Yeah, it was a great show. Oh, my God. John Groff, who, you know, was one of those comics in Boston that was a little too smart for a lot of these rooms. Yeah, he was a smart guy. I think Brown, I gave him his first writing job. You went to Brown, right? Oh, did you really?

Yeah. On what? On Short Attentions Band Theater. No kidding. I think Brown, I gave him his first writing job. You went to Brown, oh did you really? Yeah, I gave on short attention span theater. No kidding. When I like, I was such a fucking nightmare on that show, but they didn't have a real writer there. Well, the guy, I don't want to diss the guy more than I have my entire life. But yeah, I pulled John in. I don't remember the guy's name.

I think his name was Danny Aronson. I don't know what he went on to do, but. I know that John, I guess he wrote for you and then he wrote for the John Stewart show and got fired and then went on to become, he's literally one of the biggest showrunners in Hollywood right now. I know, yeah.

Brilliant sitcom writer. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. He's done everything. He was doing Black-ish. He was doing Black-ish, yeah, yeah. He became, but he was always one of those guys that, you know, not like the rest of us, you know, broken fucking idiots.

Like there was always a sense that, you know, somehow or another those guys who are like reasonably parented, have a good education, they're gonna find a way to rise to, you know, a place of power and success. Where the rest of us just pushed back on that. Yes. I couldn't. Well, yeah, because I think for me, comedy was,

I was in school and I was not going to be told what to do. I felt, I looked down on people that did well in school. And I think it's because I came from a really shitty public school. And so there was the default setting was, if you try, you're a loser. And so- Oh really, neighborhood, that's neighborhood idea.

Yeah. Yeah. And so I- Where'd you grow up? In New York, in Westchester County. Oh, not in Boston. No, everybody thinks Boston, because I went to school there.

And you're fucking Irish as fuck. And I'm Irish. I fit, I check a lot of boxes for Boston. Yeah dude, yeah. And so, so I think that comedy became a thing that was just such a natural fit, and so I had that same mentality going into standup. I hated the guys that were, and the women,

there were very few in Boston, and that's why I say guys, because that's who we started with. I could probably name all the women. Suma Guinness, Maria Falzone. Right. Laura Dabrowski. Lauren Dabrowski.

Lauren Dabrowski. What was that one's name? Hoag? Stephanie Hoag. Stephanie Hoag. Was that her name? Bar, what was it? Julie Bar.

Julie Bar, yeah. Julie Gray. She passed. Yeah, there weren't a lot. Janine and Laura Keitlinger. Yeah, Garoflo and Keitlinger. And Sarah actually spent some time there. Wendy Liebman.

Oh, Wendy Liebman, we're forgetting. Wendy Liebman. Yeah. Yeah, so I think I fell in with the comics that were, I don't know, I just fell into that camp of like, I did gravitate to the Gavin guys who just had attitude, who were very much like, fuck you comics. You know, and I think I learned a lot from watching him.

People always say when you're a comedian, there is like, who are your influences? And people inevitably will say, prior or whatever, I always say Gavin first. He's the guy that I think I learned the most from. The worker, man. Like, yeah, I mean, I was down, I was with Gavin, Johnny Yees once.

I was opening or middling whatever the structure was. And after that show, we were in a hotel room playing that fucking dollar bill poker game. Yeah. And I just watched him getting more and more fucked up. White Russians. Oh, white Russians, you know, blow and like one eye was closing, and he's like,

do I gotta pay, pay once, you know, whatever the fuck the game was. But when you work with those guys. Well, Gavin one time was at Nick's, and he had a couple dozen white Russians. And then he goes on, he goes on at the end, and he comes off stage, and one of the younger comics goes, Don, you repeated the same joke twice. Yeah.

And Don looks at him and he goes, records five. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha you couldn't leave. No, why would you leave? Well, because you might want to go to bed. But once you're in it, after a gig or you're hanging out, you've got to wait until they fucking pass out. Right, right. And then you're like, oh, finally. Yeah. And go back to my room.

I remember the Laughing Lobster up in Maine. It was me, Tom Cotter, and Kevin Knox. Knoxy. Knoxy. And we drive up there, and it's a condo. So it's exactly that. And Knoxy, and we're bringing women back to the condo every night because it was a resort.

It was filled with French Canadian women and American women. And so we're hooking up. And so there's a pool, and we're going to go down to the pool. Beautiful day out. And it's all these French's a pool and we're going to go down to the pool. Beautiful day out. And it's all these French Canadian women and, and they're beautiful and the pool's packed.

And I was like, fuck man, I forgot to bring a bathing suit. And so Kevin goes, well, you got some boxer shorts? I go, yeah. He goes, just wear the fuck a boxer shorts. So they go down to the pool and I'm sitting there debating it. And I was like, all right, fuck it, I'm going down there.

I put on the boxer shorts. Yeah. I walk into the pool area, I open the gate, they're sitting on the far side of the pool, I close the gate, I take two steps in and Noxie stands up and he goes, Greg, what are you wearing your underwear for? And the whole pool just laughs at me. I turn around, I go back to the condo.

Those fucking guys. Tom Roadstock's been on an elevator with John Fox. It was like a packed elevator, and Fox just blows a fart out, and it's the worst. And immediately he's like, Jesus, Tom, what'd you eat? You know? Why is it so funny, the fucking life we live? Because we started out, there was no social media.

We had our days free. The wild west. Used to play softball with us, right? I mean, like Mondays and Wednesdays and Fridays, there was a softball game at noon. And we had full size. We had 18 players that would show up. Everybody's hung over.

We bust each other's balls. We'd laugh. Sometimes it'd be a fight. I remember who got into a fight one. It might've been Matt Graham actually. Yeah, it was Matt Graham. And he's so competitive, dude. And so we would go to movies.

We would hang out late after the shows. There was no promotion. There was just writing new stuff. I just remember just getting back to Catch a Rising Star for the free booze. Yeah. That was the craziest thing, that they just wouldn't charge comics for booze.

So even if people didn't work there, after gigs, it just, we packed. Yeah. Shit faced. Yep. And I remember doing shows there and Barry Crimmins would just police the back of the room. He would walk back and forth

and he'd watch if you were on stage. And if you said something that was hacky, he would go, hack! Ugh, I missed that. Oh my God. I was around for the comics getting on the back mic time. Oh yeah. When there was no management,

and like on those showcase nights, in the middle of your set, someone would just be like, oh, that wasn't, you know, whatever. That's a fucking nightmare in the ever evolving list that Robin Horton was constantly creating as the night went on. Just watching your name be bumped further and further down.

Fuck. I remember I auditioned for that guy. And like you said, the stakes were so high that the five minutes set that you were getting, and that's what the audition was, was five minutes. And I waited for months to get it. And I finally go in, I do the five minutes, and I get off stage and I just look at him.

And I go, so what do you think? And he goes, well, I can either tell you, I can take you in the back and tell you, or I can just tell you to come back in six months. And of course I'm like, no, I want you to tell me. So we go in the back and he literally said, as far as I'm concerned, you're just another cocky Irish puke.

Uh-huh. As first time I experienced real racism as an Irish guy before. But he wasn't wrong. I've written that all the way to the middle, Mark. I don't know how you didn't name that your first album, but cocky Irish puke. That actually would be great. Yeah. He just had to read on you. I think the problem was the word puke.

You know what I mean? Jockey little Irish. Well, you know, you grew up small. You gotta compensate a little bit. When did you, so you went to school at BU and you're from New York and you just stayed in Boston? Yeah, stayed in Boston. When did you quit drinking?

I'd been doing comedy about a year. So I quit in 91. How bad did that get? Well, my father was a really bad alcoholic. So for me, I had kind of a shallow bottom. I spent three weekends in jail for fighting. That's a substantial bottom. But I was a good drunk though.

I mean, I was a guy who, yeah, I got into fights because I had a bad temper, but I also was like, I was fun, I was a good fun drunk, as my dad was. And so there wasn't a lot of my friends going like, as they're shit faced and doing blood going, hey man, you don't have a problem. I'm worse than you. I was like, well, yeah, that's gonna be something

you're gonna confront at some point. Maybe. And so I got out, I just like, well, yeah, that's gonna be something you're gonna confront at some point. It may be. And so I got out, I just remember, I kept a lot of journals throughout my life. And I go back and I read my journals from college. And there was a lot of, I need to quit drinking. Really? There was a lot of times where I just felt like,

and I think a lot of it was not wanting, there was so many scenes with my father. There were so many moments where as a child, I was humiliated and angry and scared. And I just thought to myself, that's not the life that I want for myself. So I felt, I think I was highly sensitive to those feelings. Did he die from it?

Well, he died at 53 of a heart attack from smoking, but the drinking was part of it. He smoked three and a half packs a day. Oh my God, what'd that guy do? Well, he died at 53 of a heart attack from smoking, but the drinking was part of it. He smoked three and a half packs a day. Oh my God, what'd that guy do? He was a radio guy. I think I knew that. Yeah, he was a big radio guy in New York.

He was like one of the biggest guys. Really? What was his name? Bob Fitzsimmons. On what channel? WNEW. Oh, really? Yeah. So you grew up with that?

Yeah. Yeah, we grew up... What was the show, Drive Time? It was, no, he did some Drive Time, but he was mostly afternoon, he was political, he was kind of a bleeding heart liberal. Yeah. Mayor Koch, when he had the morning show,

Mayor Koch used to call in every single morning. Oh really? And they would kind of go at it. How am I doing? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Is this good, Fitzy? And so they would go at it, talk about politics, talk about what was in the news that day.

And it was kind of where Koch learned how to do radio because then he later had his own radio show. Yeah. But he did a thing in the 70s, that late 70s, early 80s, he called the Feminine Forum because he had the daytime shift. And they realized the demographic was all housewives.

So before Donahue did this, he started talking about menopause. He talked about being cheated on. He talked about the Feminine Forum. And he got shut down by the FCC a couple times. For what? Indecency. He was talking about things that weren't acceptable to talk about on the FCC a couple times. For what? Indecency. He was talking about things that were unacceptable to talk about on the radio at that time.

In the afternoon, yeah. And so, but he had a career where I saw him go, I would see him go for a year, year and a half with no job and the drinking would get really bad and it was scary. And I think it set me up for a career where, number one, I saw that I could do something for a living that was creative.

I loved watching him. I loved, he would MC like charity nights. Anybody asked me to MC a charity night, he loved it. He put on Tuxedo. He had, I've got an envelope full of his bullet points for his material. Is that the new special? That's the new special, yeah. So he had, I've got an envelope full of his bullet points for his material. Is that the new special?

That's the new special, yeah. Old cocky Irish puke. And he would go up and kill and he'd do crowd work and he would talk about the moment. He would talk about what was going on. And I think it was really where I thought maybe, yeah, this is what I could do. But I saw also that it can all go away immediately.

Instantly. And I think it's, and I think I have an unhealthy relationship to that after having done it now 35 years, that I still have these feelings that the bottom's gonna fall out and, you know, worried about money, which I don't need to worry about. Like it's, it's, everything's fine. What'd you do, bank the money from writing? Writing. You know, and I don't need to worry about. Like it's, it's- What'd you do?

Bank the money from writing? Writing, you know, and I had those, those silly development deals early on that we got. But you were responsible at your money? Oh, very responsible. And your wife worked? Nope, she didn't work. Yeah, you did all right, huh?

Yeah. Yeah, the writing was good. And then I've just always worn a lot of hats. I've never said no to anything. But also if you're not greedy and weird and your objective is to buy things, if you're responsible with money, you can live. I never spend money and I never did.

I drive a Prius, it's a 12 year old Prius. I drive an Avalon, it's a little better. Are you bragging with an Avalon? Yeah, I'm bragging. Cause I love it. I love the car. The only time I don't love my car is when I park at the comedy store and I watch what these fuckers come in with.

And I'm like, well, how do they? And then it took me the longest time to realize, like they're just leasing it, dude. I mean, people would drive in in cars, you're like, what the fuck is that? How does he, how does that guy- Tim Dillon pulled in in a half million dollar Rolls Royce the other night.

That was too much. But you know what, he's enjoying it. Some people- I love it that he gets out of that Rolls Royce SUV with his fucking filthy t-shirt on. Exactly. He must have like a bunch of filthy t-shirts. Yeah.

Like it's his look. But you know what? The guy is fucking crushing it and he's enjoying the money. And I think for some people, he's also really smart with real estate. So as much as he's blowing it, he's got a place in the Hamptons, he's got a place in Austin.

And- He kept that place in Austin? I think so, yeah. So I think it drives some people to keep working hard if they just, Louisie's like that. He's always spending more than he makes. You don't gotta tell me. I mean, that's fucking nuts.

The stories about him making himself broke are the best. Yeah, right. And he's always been that way. Just like get to zero to push yourself. And buy cameras, buy- A trumpet, put a car on your AmEx. Buy a motorcycle and then leave it on the street in New York So it gets impounded and you owe money on it week after week. Yeah Yeah, I'm just not that guy. Yeah, you know what I mean?

Like I like knowing I have the money in the bank Mm-hmm, but I would get you know overwhelmed with anxiety and also just sort of overwhelmed with, you know, the feeling of things weren't gonna work out and, you know, how am I gonna live with that? Yeah. But then I'd do it on stage. Yeah, I think stage is a good, that's how I've dealt my, I have depression.

I'm medicated for it. You do? Yeah, I've had, I know nobody can believe it, but I think I'm, when I'm alone, it gets bad. If I'm around people, I'm okay. Because you've got like this weird, even keel that only implies two things, of depression or just fury. I think I got both.

Yeah. It's like, you know, because you have this way about you, that cocky Irish puke business, where it's just sort of like, you know, I'm going to get stuck here. I don't know how, I'm going to go up and say hi to him, but it's not gonna land, it's not gonna be great. Like, wait, if I'm even, how is that not great? If you're what? Even? No, but there's like, you have this sort of like, this, a very kind

of innate passive aggressive thing that you do. And you think you're, you know, for some people, it might blow by them, but for someone overly sensitive by me, like when you introduce me, if I'm going on after you, 99% of the time I'm walking out there going, that little fuck, he just took a shot at me. I don't know if you noticed that, but I noticed it. Cause I know exactly what he did there.

I was shocked. That happened about three times ago. And here's exactly what I said. I said, this next guy coming up is doing it as good as anybody else. Is that passive aggressive? Isn't it? What does that even mean?

How about like, this guy's a funny guy. This guy's just doing as good as anyone. So people, during the intro, they got to go like, what does that mean? You could tell me that was like just an earnest, pleasant intro. I fucking hate that system of bringing up the next act. Cause you just, you can't win. Either you're being too general and saying they've been on Comedy Central and they've got a new special on YouTube, you know, and they just go like, all right, he just made that up.

Or you try to get personal and then it gets into that territory where now they're thinking about your intro. Yeah, I've done weird things where you kind of like, you're just kind of riffing the intro and like, I've had brought people on. This guy used to be on a show that got canceled. Uh, you know, like... Yeah, yeah, yeah, right, right.

That kind of thing. You brought me up one night and you said, and you later apologized. You texted me later and apologized. Oh. And you said, this next guy is aging and shrinking. He seems to be shrinking. And now I got to walk on stage and I got to process that.

I got to react to you. I just drove from Venice to make $20. I got a pocket full of new jokes I'm gonna try. And now that's half my set. Do I have to apologize again? No, it was a nice apology. Oh yeah. Yeah.

Because like I can't, cause I do that instinctively too. Like I, you know, there's people that, you know, there's certain people that, like, are just innately defensive. You know what I mean? Like, they're just like, I'm gonna, I don't know what's gonna happen. Even with the nicest guys,

I'm gonna fuck him before he fucks me. This guy's got no ill intention on my, what's the angle? You know, how you, and a lot of stuff as I get older, it just doesn't, it's like old habits, like a phantom limb. You do it and then you're like, what the fuck did I? I also think we hate boredom. I hate a small talk interaction that has nothing behind it. So if I can say something that's a little bit, you know, gonna throw somebody off a

tiny bit and that's gonna open up the juices. It's gonna be a better conversation. Yeah, for you. For you too, you're the same way. I don't throw a wrench in immediately and I've learned to listen because I've been doing this for so long. No, your first move is to cock your head back and look down through the bottom of your glasses and go, yeah. And go, what's going on?

What's going on? We good? Everything all right? To you! You do it to everybody. I'm not gonna do that to Fahim. Yes, you do it to Fahim! That's probably true.

Yes! What's going on with you? Yeah. Yeah. There's certain people that you don't have to do that to. You know, there are genuinely nice guys, but yeah, sometimes like, and I know that like I come off as dickish,

but I'm really not. I just don't know, cause there were some people, you know, like, you don't wanna mention names, but there are just some people where you're like, what are you even doing up there? Stand up wise. Yeah. Yeah.

What is, I can't even register What I don't know what you're doing and then like, you know, we're in but there is some part of me where it's like We're not on the same playing field. Mm-hmm. Are we? But it's always been that way and I think that's been a big liability for me because if I'm feeling insecure I'll be like this guy's getting fucking laughs. What's that about? I Think that that's a good driver. I guess. I think it's always been helpful for me to look at other comics.

But then people think you're a dick. Well, so what? Yeah. You know? Yeah. I mean, does that bother you that people think you're a dick? No, because I don't,

because at this point in my life, I don't think I am. And when I was a dick, I'll take it. You know what I mean? But I also think that not unlike any of us, you get resentments for whatever it is. You make assumptions about people. And then some people gossip and start shit. And I just think because I seem to have an air of people read as an air of condescension. But I'm just thinking about me.

I'm not, you know. Yeah. I don't think that, it's just my particular, I'm a, you know, a cocky, kikey puke. I tried to fight you once. Do you remember that? Oh my God. At Luna Lounge in New York.

Really? Louie broke it up. What? You said something, there was a New York Times piece about me because I was hosting a game show and I- I hit you where it hurt, huh? And I had done Letterman and I was having a really good time that I was feeling really good about.

And then you just fucking went after me at Luna. On stage? No, no, backstage in that bar, that front bar. Right. And I lunged at you and Louie jumped in and stopped it from happening. Are you sure? 100%.

What did I say? At one point you asked me to show you my teeth. Yeah. Like, cause I was gonna go out to LA. Oh, like, yeah, like you're putting yourself on the market. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Which was always funny to me because you resenting that was like, you didn't want that.

You didn't want to be on a sitcom. Of course I did on some level, but I had decided that, you know, I'd rather be angry about it and choose a position of like you sell out, than admit that my own sort of aspirations around it. Cause I was stuck in this world of angry comedy where you weren't trying to be appealing to everybody.

Oh, well I did that, huh? And you lunched on me. I'm not a fighter, so it wouldn't have gone very far. No, I think the reason is, well, there's a couple dynamics. One is that I think I grew up with a dominating father who I was very, I think I let him dictate how I felt about myself. And I think that you have a very strong personality,

and also I always respected your stand-up. So I think your opinion meant more to me than I would have liked. Right, yeah, I feel that. I get that, but I, you know, like, it's weird. I can't remember the last time where I have felt that type of anger, where somebody has said or done something where I can't kind of control,

like, you know, where it comes up and you can't manage it. I haven't felt that in a while. Like, you know, where it comes up and you can't manage it. I haven't felt that in a while. Like, sometimes people bring people up and I'm like, oh, that fucking, you know, that'll happen. But directed at me, I think I've learned how to absorb. I can take a hit pretty good now, and I'm all right. If it's funny. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, it's a chess, it's kind of a chess match, isn't it? But we're old. Yeah, I know. How long does this have to fucking go on for? I just had a, I drove to, I do a Sunday morning yoga on the beach in Santa Monica. You still live in Venice? Yeah.

Yeah. So I'm driving there on Sunday morning and I'm on Abbot Kinney and it's quiet. Yeah. And so I'm driving and this guy just, just Abbot Kinney's it across the street, just walks, you know, slowly. it across the street, just walks slowly. And I don't slow down.

Cause that's who I still have to be at 58 years old. And so he has to jump out of the way, but he looks like a douche, so I don't fucking care. So I pull up a couple of lights and then all of a sudden the car pulls up next to me and it's the guy. And he's fucking screaming, he's kind of a tough guy and he's screaming at me.

And I'm going, well, I'm fucking, I go, I go, you're jaywalking, whatever. And then his girlfriend jumps out of the car and I was like, oh, here we go. Now she's going to hit me and what am I supposed to do if she hits me? And she's taking pictures of my license plate and taking a picture of me.

And then he pulls in front of me and I was just like, oh, is this going to, is he going to hit my car now? And then he pulls off and you know, five minutes later, I'm on a yoga mat and the teacher's talking about how we should stay centered. And I'm like, I don't think, I don't think that's gonna happen for the next hour. I'm not there. Yeah.

But do you feel, do you feel shitty about it? There's a part of me that feels like, and this is a very Irish thing, Do you feel shitty about it? There's a part of me that feels like, and this is a very Irish thing, that I'm supposed to right the wrongs in the universe. And that guy jaywalking makes me angry because I don't like that people- Do that? Do that to cars.

Yeah. And I'm gonna be the guy that doesn't put up with it. And that's what's gotten me into most, most every fight I've been in in my life is because I saw somebody be mean to somebody else, mistreat somebody else. And then that's when I snap.

If they do it to me, it's like, I, like you said, I can kind of orchestrate like some piece. Joke your way out of it. But when it's somebody else, that's when I absolutely lose. You step in and you're like, what the fuck are you doing? Yeah. Really?

Right, right. So what, you know, I watched a special and you know, the bits and pieces that like are pulled from your aging life. Yeah. Are kind of interesting in that, like, you just went to Ireland? Yeah, last summer.

For the first time? No, no, like the fifth time. Oh. Yeah. What's your experience when you go there? It's like something in my DNA just goes, this is where you're from. These are your people. Yeah.

It's weird. I had this experience in Ireland. When I first moved to Boston to do comedy, I was terrified of the Boston Irish and they were surrounding me and they were scary and loud and they were violent. And I couldn't, like, it was just, it was terrified me for a long time

because I had to perform for them. And it was always sort of like, I'm gonna fucking, these fucking guys, they don't shut up, they're gonna hit me. It's just a fucking nightmare. And the first time I went to Ireland, the funny thing is, is that all the Irish air, they look like those guys, but they couldn't be nicer.

Couldn't be nicer. And it took me a while to adapt. Like, how you doing? Like, very sweet. And I'm like, what the fuck did the States do to fucking Irish people? No, you go to Southie. The only books those guys, they'll hit you with a book,

but the Irish are the most literate. The vocabulary of the average Irish person, five times as many words are in play. Yeah. No, it's just a lovely place. I have this very, a real affinity for it. For a long time, I thought I wanted to live there, just because there's something about the kind of dark poetic spirit of the place that I just love.

But obviously, we know what Boston did to the Irish. I mean, they were treated like shit for years. And the church. I mean, the thing is about the violence from the Irish, a lot of it is the complete oppression, the shame that was given to you and the feeling that like you had to bow down to this priest who you watched him every Sunday

and you went, this guy isn't shit. I gotta be afraid of this guy. Yeah. So yeah, I think I don't know what else happened to the Irish here, but it really is like, I go to the St. Patrick's Day Parade. I went every year, I used to march with my, all four of my grandparents are from Ireland.

Yeah. So I would march with my grandfather, Florence McCarthy. And he was with the ancient order of Hibernians and the Bronx. And we would walk through the St. Patrick's Day parade since I was like five years old. And I just had, to this day, I get teary eyed when I hear the pipes and the drums

and I see the Irish faces, the pale skin and the black hair, the redheads. And I see the pride they have. And I see that I've got this great picture. I'll show it to you. I'm on a text chain with a bunch of my grandfather's family. They're all over the country. And I got this shot. I never knew this, but my grandfather went out to Montana

where his brother lived and there was 13 brothers and sisters. And so there was about six of them in Montana, and there's a picture of them. And you know, this is in like the 1930s. So it's a black and white shot, and they're all dressed in their suits because they're in Montana, so they're wearing a fucking suit.

And they're all laughing. You know? Like it was always there. That story, I can remember my grandfather, my mom inherited my grandfather's laugh and it is musical, it's beautiful. And you know, I just, I feel like that's how we dealt with it. Yeah.

And when you go there, do you have people there? Yeah. You have relatives there. Yeah. I had some show up, I did a show in Galway. There's a great little theater. If you ever go to Galway, I did a show in Galway. There's a great little theater. If you ever go to Galway, I'll put you in touch with the guy.

And it's the Royce and Dove. And that's where Tommy Tiernan works out a lot. He lives in Galway. And so a bunch of my cousins showed up. I didn't know I had. And they were not that distant. They were like second cousins once removed or something like that. And they were not that distant. They were like second cousins once removed or something like that.

And they saw me and the love and the acceptance and the joy, they had come that day and they'd heard I was coming and they waited all day. And it was just, you know, I've always had a good experience with my Irish relatives. It's so good that like you do an act that's pretty foolproof. Like, you know, your jokes are tight.

Like, you know, I've always got this fear, like, I'm gonna tank in front of my family, because I never know where some of my jokes are gonna end up. But it's nice to be able to, like, do a good show, and then everyone's like, yeah, you're funny. Every time I walk upstage, your family, I'm like, I'm sorry, I don't know.

I don't know. That one got away from me, man. Well, I'm sorry, I don't know. I don't know. That one got away from me then. Well, it's also, you're showing the world maybe some stuff that they'd rather keep secret. If not stories, just a general attitude. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't show them we're like that. Yeah, yeah, just getting off stage

after some of the stuff I do, I'm like, is it okay? Right, right. And so, you bring the whole family when you go? Yeah, I had my mother, my kids, my wife, my brother. Your mom's still around? Yeah. Wow.

Well, how old's she? She's 82, she never even dated after my father died. He was such a big personality. I think like she went out with like two guys for like a month each. And just it didn't, she didn't match what she'd felt with my dad. And so she spent her life, you know,

very happily alone with good friends. Yeah, that's good. You know, she's slowing down. She had some heart surgery about a year and a half ago. But mentally good? Mentally very sharp. That's good. We do the crossword puzzles together.

Thank God. The mental thing is very important. Yeah, I'm sorry about your mom. My dad's got the dementia. Oh, the dad, right. My mom's kind of falling apart as well, but she's not totally mentally losing it. Right, right.

It's like brutal, dude. I mean, it's like- Your material about your dad is so fucking great. Oh, thanks. Oh my God. That thing about jail. Oh yeah, that's just like came together as a real joke. Yeah, yeah.

You know what I mean? All right. It's, yeah, it's too much. I talked to him yesterday. He's still got most of it left. I mean, that's not true. When he knows he's going to talk to me, he can zone in. He knows who I am.

He knows what I'm doing, you know, and his wife's. He's in the ventriloquist dummy phase of early dementia, where his wife basically just... He'll go like, yeah, where did we eat? And I'll hear his wife go, we ate at the Olive Garden. Oh yeah, we ate at the Olive Garden. I'm like, you seen any movies? Yeah, we did see some movies. She goes, we saw that one.

Oh yeah, yeah, we saw it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Martin Lewis. Oh, that's hilarious. So how old are the kids now? 23 and 20. You really pulled it off and they're good kids? Good kids, yeah.

My son just, he graduated a year ago. He just spent six months in Guatemala and Mexico. Just him and his buddy, he's fluent in Spanish cause they went to a Spanish immersion school from kindergarten through high school. So we went down there and they took what they call chicken buses from town to town. Cause it's like people sitting there with like

a chicken in their lap. They call them chicken buses. And just got to know locals and had adventures and had romances and climb volcanoes and just had a blast. And now he's back and he's trying to figure out what to do. Yeah. Yeah.

Don't you worry about him? Well, I said, I used to say on stage, my son is, my son's down in Mexico for six months, long if we can't get the ransom money together. But no, he's a sharp kid. He grew up in Venice, you know, so he knows how to keep his guard up. And you know, he's intelligent and I don't worry about him.

And at a certain point, you really do, I think the only way to parent is to, is to let them go in the sense that you have to say, my child might die. This sounds dark, but you have to say, my child might die. And accept that. And then let them live their life the way they're going to. That sounds like the beginning of an Irish novel.

Yes, you're right. That's the Irish thing, it must be. To just be like, hey, you know, could get bad. It could get bad. And there's nothing I can do about it. What about the other one? She's great. She's kind of like, she's working right now in my, I have a podcast studio that I work out of and she's working over there. She wants to maybe go in that direction. So she's learning how to do the editing and the uploading, and she does the camera switching, and she... Third generation radio.

Yeah. And my son actually had a radio show in college, on the college radio station at DePaul. But did they know your father? Never knew him. Wild. Yeah. And it's funny because my daughter,

who is very spiritual, she has been since she was, like, eight years old. She's just like, you know, we kind of like, my mom takes them to, my mom's devout Catholic and she takes them, yeah, yeah, and she takes them to church. And my daughter from the get go, just something transcendent went through her. And so we go to churches, like she likes to go to churches and like, I remember when she was 10 and learning about like, you know, the transfiguration of the body of Christ and the ascension and all that stuff, she would just fast. And once she was about nine and she knelt down,

we were at the Cathedral St. John the Divine in Harlem. And she knelt down in front of the candles and she lit a candle and then she folded her hands and she put her head down, which I didn't even know she knew how to do. Yeah. And she sat there for like 10 minutes and then she got up and I go, what were you doing? And she goes, I was praying for your father. And I was just like, it was like a scene from the exorcist, like what? So I don't know.

I think there's something about them that is ancient. They have a respect, very curious and respectful about the generations that came ahead of them. Your kids are. Yeah. Huh. Yeah. That's nice.

They must've got that from you or something. Yeah, I think that family has always been the most important thing. I know that's such a cliche, but it really truly is. Like, you know, I just look at what I've done with my family and I realized that that's, I broke the cycle. You know, my father used to, both my parents used to hit me

and there was a lot of drinking and there was a lot of making me feel bad about myself. And I don't blame my parents because I know they got that from their parents and the cycle. And the fact that I broke the cycle in my lifetime is probably the achievement I'm most proud of. Because you were conscious of it the whole time.

Yes, I mean, it's why I quit drinking. I didn't wanna keep that cycle going. Yeah, but you quit drinking, but then you still had to get your personal life together. Made some bad choices. Yeah. Yeah. Career wise, definitely.

People wise. Yeah. But I also, I raised them to realize that crying was OK. I would cry in front of my kids, I would show them I was depressed and that I deal with it and not make mental illness a stigma because I know that it's in the genes. I like that you framed, you rationalize this as a positive. You know, like I cried in front of my kids, I was depressed in front of my kids

because I wanted them to learn. You know, I couldn't. Well, why do you think they respect where they came from? Their ancestors were all depressed alcoholics. Respect that. Now, when I showed them Joy, we'd dance. We always had dance parties. Oh, good.

And the dinner table is a storytelling, ball busting time. It's a very funny idea, though. The completely fucked-up parent is abusive and depressed and fucked up, and at the end of the day, just so like, I just want you to learn about what this is like. Realize that this is you.

This is who you will become. Yeah, this is it. And your wife, I think you ride a line with some of the comedy, which is funny. And I think it's good, cause I'm not, I don't think in joke form, right? So that's just your nature. You're gonna structure jokes and mine have to evolve.

I'm always surprised when a joke reveals itself. I'm like, that's like a real joke. Is that element of surprise. But you write a line with your wife, but you're ultimately very respectful. And I imagine that the dialogue around that stuff, she's got to be used to it, right? Yeah, well, I've never denigrated her in my act at all.

I might talk about her sexually, it's honest and straightforward, but I've never said a negative thing about her. And so, because I've never said a negative thing about her. Because I think that if you do, like people go, what, you never get angry at your wife? And I was like, yeah, but if I write a joke about it, I have to hone that joke and I have to work on that joke

and I gotta do it night after night. And then it becomes a mantra that something is negative in my marriage, that's really not. Right. You know, and so I don't bring that up. And she is, look, she's an Upper West Side Jew. She grew up in New York City.

She's very thick skinned. And you know, the thing I love about the Jewish culture is that it is honest, it is raw. You put it out there, you say what you're feeling. And I think that she comes from that world. And so she never took any of my jokes. First of all, she watches me do stand-up once a year. Because I do this one show on St. Patrick's Day that you've been nice enough to do in the past.

And she comes out and watches that. And then she has never listened to one of my podcasts in her life. So that's what keeps it healthy. She could give a shit. And it sounds like you guys get along pretty good. Get along. We just had our 25th anniversary this week.

How old are you? 58. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my God, dude. Not too late, Mark. I know. But like it's sort of a miracle that you were able

to hold the line in terms of your mental health and everything else. I mean, do you ever think about that? Every day, it's a constant struggle. I go to therapy, I'm medicated, I meditate every day, I work out almost every day. I just try to be conscious of what I'm thinking. I try to not eat carbs, just little things.

Yeah, but it so could have gone the other way. It's the amazing thing about being sober and living it and taking responsibility for all that shit. But you're not a big program guy, right? No, that's the thing I feel bad about. I really do. I wish I'd gone more along the lines that you did where because it's free therapy.

It's a constant therapy. To a level, like to a level, you know, like who, I just saw someone do a joke last night. Oh, it was a Maria Bamford joke. Cause she's like did a bit about 12 step programs, about cults and whatever. And you know, she would go to all these 12 steps things. She's a genius.

And she, she brought her husband to one of the meetings and he sat there and I guess in the middle of the meeting, he said, these people need professional help. I mean, there is a context to, it teaches you how. I feel like that when I watch an improv show. Oh, God. Yeah. But there is the context of the 12 Steps

relative to whatever your problem is, you know, can, you know, sort of dig into, you know, accepting that problem and then, you know, taking the steps necessary to become a relatively decent person. Like, you know, because the idea is you're fundamentally self-centered. So you have to learn how to, you know, be of service

or how to give or how to take responsibility for your problems, how to have some sort of spiritual idea that at least enables you to realize that, you know, you're not it. And so those are all helpful. But to really get into the nuts and bolts of trauma or parental abuse, I mean, you really gotta, you know, you're gonna find common ground in the room.

But there's no solution other than you going like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, right, right. Well, I did Al-Anon for years. That's right, you mentioned that. Yeah, so I am familiar with the 12, it's the same 12 steps. Oh, no, I've done Al-Anon. Yeah, Al-Anon is profound. I got a lot out of it. It's deep, you mentioned that. So I am familiar with the 12, it's the same 12 steps.

Oh no, I've done Al-Anon. Yeah, Al-Anon is profound. I got a lot out of it. It's deep, dude. It's a deeper program because it's trickier. Yeah, the first time I walked into Al-Anon. You're real Al-Anon. Yeah.

You're like the king of detachment. Yeah. I don't engage emotionally with anybody. I learned that, I learned that from the program. It's good, it's just like you're one, it's like a classic sort of Alanon disposition, where you got a slight martyr thing, a little bit of passive aggression,

but you know how to hold the boundary. Here's what I love about you. You sum people up. I watch you watch other comedians, and I can see your mind going, oh, he's doing that, he's that, he's doing that, he's that. We've been doing it so long. And now it's sort of like, even if you've heard something

before, who cares? What's more interesting is how do generations sort of disappear, and then they sprout up exactly the same types. The same types. It's crazy to me. Yeah, I do that a bit, but it's not so much judgmental. I am actually, like, I'd like to laugh.

You know what I mean? Like, I spent so many years doing comedy and you get sort of numb to it. So if there's a guy that can deliver the goods, where I'm excited if I'm like, I'm gonna go watch this. And it doesn't happen that much. It used to happen all the time,

maybe because we were younger and back then, you really didn't know what the fuck was gonna happen. Like back when we were coming up where people would lose their shit, it was always somebody snapping and it was like, oh, that was the best. Jay Sharver just lost his shit again. Frank Santarelli.

Oh, Frank. Frank would lose it. I love Frank. Frank would lose it. Oh, he was, I love Frank. Frank's the best. He is. But you know, and Kevin Meany, like, you know, watching Kevin Meany bomb, like to this day, nothing, first of all,

him killing straight up is probably the hardest I've seen a group of people laugh in my life. He would fucking kill. He'd push and push and push and push. And he was doing it in character, which just takes the laughter to a whole... Like you watch Sebastian, you know, like his jokes are good,

but they're not like the greatest jokes you've ever seen, but the performance. It's the windup. Oh, my God. Yeah. Get the thing going with the thing. And for him, the jokes are perfect. He just understands his voice.

And when he gets into that, it just makes people laugh so fucking hard. And I love that kind of comedy. And Kevin had, that's the one night I drank in my life. In the last, I did drink one night in the last 34 years. And that was Kevin Meaney's funeral. He was like one of my best friends in the world. Really? Yeah. He was, we grew up best friends in the world. Really? Yeah.

He was, we grew up one town away from each other in New York. And so my father, when he started to make some money, joined a golf club. And Kevin was a waiter at the golf club. And he would entertain the diners. He would come out and he had, this is where he got the bow tie from.

And he used to come out and he would make me, he would do the cheesecake, boats are coming. where he got the bow tie from. And he used to come out and he would make me, he would do the cheesecake boats are coming. And we'd talk about for dessert tonight, we got the New York cheesecake. Cheesecake boats are coming. And he'd sing a song in the dining room. And so eventually my father said,

you should do standup comedy. He goes, I'm friends with the owner of Catch. He goes, I could get you on stage. And so that was the first time Kevin did standup comedy. And so he used to come on my dad's radio show when he was coming up and they were very close, my father and Kevin. And so, and I knew Kevin because I was a kid at the country club.

And so I was ordering, Kevin, give me another Coke. And he'd have to bring me Cokes. And so years later, my father goes, look up that, remember Kevin, that funny waiter? And he goes, well, he's really big at stand-up. He had just done Letterman, he had just done an HBO special. And so I went to Catch Your Eyes and Star in Boston, and I sat in the room with him. Before you did comedy.

Yeah. I was like, just, I'd maybe done it a few times, like a college comedy match or something. And I went and I saw him, and I just, I'd maybe done it a few times, like a college comedy or something. And I went and I saw him and I just, you know, like people talk about your ribs hurting, like literally a physical pain from watching this guy kill like that. He crowd files out, I hang around,

he comes over and he looks at me, and he hasn't seen me since I was 11 years old, and then he goes, Fitzsimmons. And we started talking on the phone. He started bringing me at an open forum on the road years later and we became, got to the point where he was in my wedding party. I was in his wedding party.

And we were just as close as you could be. And so yeah, I gave the eulogy at his funeral. And then that night I had a few long pulls from a bottle of Chivas. How was that? Really nice. I got warm all over, I got tingly. Yeah, yeah.

Pain went away. Yeah, you knew why you did it. But then I just, that was it. Next day I was like, all right, that happened. Move on. Yeah, I smoked a cigarette with Keith Richards because I had to. No. Move on. Yeah, I smoked a cigarette with Keith Richards because I had to. No.

No shit. Well, I knew, like, I was on, I'm always on nicotine on them. But so I knew I was on the Los Angeles. So I knew I didn't want to smoke. But I was interviewing him. You know, we were using a studio in New York. So I get in there and he's a little loopy

and it's like one of the big days of my life because I love the guy. And he's got Marlboro's there and I'm like, just give me one, I just want to hold one, right? Because I used to smoke that, I don't smoke anymore and we're talking about midway through the fucking interview, he throws a lighter at my head. So I'm like, I gotta smoke.

You gotta do it. It could have been heroin. Yeah. I got off easy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. heroin. Yeah. I got off easy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Now, if Snoop Dogg wanted to smoke a joint with me, I would probably smoke a joint. I had a period of like four years where I was taking edibles to go to sleep during the pandemic. Oh yeah?

And then about six months ago, I just went, what the fuck are you doing? Yeah. Why, because you're taking them in the morning? No, it never got past just, and I took a small amount. It was like a micro dose. Did it work? Well, I stopped and I was worried, I did it to help sleep during the pandemic.

And I stopped and I slept fine that night. And I was like, all right, that's bullshit. Yeah. All the things that they, oh, weed is good for this. Weed's good. No, weed makes you anxious. Yeah. It makes you lazy. And, you know, I'm weed is good for this, weed's good. No, weed makes you anxious. It makes you lazy.

And, you know, I'm not saying outlaw it, but stop fucking romanticizing it. Oh yeah, and now everyone is fucking high, all the fucking time. Like, I know what it did to me. I smoked weed every day at some point. Eventually you just get detached. And you don't know if you're high anymore.

And like, I, you know, I just, yeah, I remember Kim and I, when I was married to her, went up to visit my dying aunt and I was just saturated in weed. And she's like on her way out and she's like kind of no filter and you know, kind of beside herself in the bed. And I'm sitting there with Kim and she goes to Kim,

she goes, what's the matter with Mark? He looks haunted. Haunted. I'm sitting there with Kim and she goes to Kim, she goes, what's the matter with Mark? He looks haunted. Haunted. I'm like, wow. Oh my God. Yeah. Because you get so in your head and that's not great for me.

So Kim, Kim was a friend of mine at BU. Yeah. Oh, that's right. That's probably how I knew you through her. That makes sense. Yeah, I loved her. She was great. So the special, what's it That makes sense. Yeah, I loved her. She was great. So the special, what's it called?

It's called You Know Me. Yeah, I watched it and he shot it at Joe's Club. Yep. And it's interesting because you do, your style lends itself to a particular type of audience that likes that, you know, like you're gonna take it right to the edge, but you do it in a personal way so it doesn't seem mean-spirited and the jokes are good.

But I thought what was interesting about some of the jokes is that they were all going good. But the ones that insinuated, you know, you kissing a man. Yeah. Like any of the stuff where the punchline was you being gay, they were kind of like, no, no, no. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, there's also a joke where I talk about guns. And it's an anti-gun bit. And let's just say we sweetened it a little bit in post.

It fell real flat. No kidding. Yeah, there's only two jokes that I sweetened in post, and that was one of them. And then there was the abortion joke that kind of trickled down, and you're like, I don't know, that's gonna make the special.

But I thought the special was great. And you know. Well, thanks man. That means a lot to me. You know, and I enjoy watching it. I got some laughs and it's good talking to you. Thanks. There you go.

You can watch Greg special, you know me starting tomorrow on his YouTube page. Hang out for a minute, folks. Go back to school with Rogers and get Canada's fastest and most reliable internet. Perfect for streaming lectures all day or binging TV shows all night. Save up to $20 per month on Rogers Internet. Visit Rogers.com for details.

We got you, Rogers. Go back to school with Rogers and get Canada's fastest and most reliable internet. Perfect for streaming lectures all day or binging TV shows all night. Save up to $20 per month on Rogers Internet. Visit rogers.com for details. We got you, Rogers.

Hey look, if you wanna hear those early episodes with Greg, you can listen to them on your WTF Plus subscription. Greg was on episode 11, 17, 57, and then a full interview on episode 139. The one thing I know about you, and the thing that always gets me about you is that I know you've got a big heart, and I know that when you laugh, you know that you and the thing that always gets me about you is that I know you've got a big heart and I know that when you laugh

You know that you have the kind of laughter that I appreciate which is like you might as well you should be crying and and that And that like I Do you mean that it's just that it's like there's a lot inside? Yeah Yeah, I can feel you know that I'm putting that on It's like there's a lot inside that I need to get out. I can feel that. I love that. I'm putting that on the back of my next book. When he's laughing, he really should be crying. Right.

And I grew up with that. And I think that it's just like, there's a familiarity here that would breed resentment. It's outside of professional. Yes. That like, we're similar, we're kindred spirits and that brings its own issues. Yes.

To get those episodes with Greg, plus every other episode of WTF ad free, go to the link in the episode description or go to WTFpod.com and click on WTF plus. And a reminder before we go, this podcast is hosted by Acast. Here's some muddy guitar. I like this guitar.

This was good. I liked this guitar. This was good, I like this one. ["Acast"] So So So So So So So I'm gonna be a man, I'm gonna be a man Boomer lives, Monkey and Lafonda, cat angels everywhere.