WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1571 - Chris Robinson

Episode Date: September 5, 2024

It took Chris Robinson a long time to accept being a rock and roll frontman. Even at the height of The Black Crowes’ success, he just thought they were just a group of dudes from Atlanta playing roots music. Now reunited with the band and touring again after releasing their ninth album, Chris tells Marc why it took time and perspective to realize he liked being the guy on lead vocals. Chris also tells Marc about the influence of bands like The Faces and Humble Pie, how he was discouraged from being a singer when he was a kid, and how he healed the rift with his brother and bandmate Rich. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Go back to school with Rogers and get Canada's fastest and most reliable internet. Perfect for streaming lectures all day or binging TV shows all night. Save up to $20 per month on Rogers internet. Visit Rogers.com for details. We got you, Rogers. Hey folks, let your imagination soar by visiting audible.ca. Audible has the best selection of audio books without exception, along with popular podcasts and exclusive Audible originals, all in one easy app. Whether you listen to stories, motivation, expert advice, basically any genre you love, you can be inspired to imagine new worlds, new possibilities, new ways of thinking. Listening can lead to positive change in your mood, your habits, and ultimately your overall well-being. Enjoy audible anytime while you're doing other things. Household chores, exercising, on the road,

commuting, you name it. Audible makes it easy to be inspired and entertained as part of your everyday routine without needing to set aside extra time. You might want to check out some audiobooks by our recent guests, like I Curse You With Joy by Tiffany Hannes or Sonic Life by Thurston Moore. There's more to imagine when you listen. Sign up for a free 30 day Audible trial and your first audio book is free. Visit audible.ca.

Lock the gates! Alright, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? How's it going? I'm Mark. This is my podcast, Mark Marin. I'm in personal crisis management. Mostly imaginary, mostly my own,

but I'm getting business cards. Yeah, I'm working it out. It's a new, I finally found a context, a psychological explanation for the life I lead. And I've decided it's a crisis management, personal. I primarily work in imaginary crisis. And they're usually my own. There is room, and I do welcome other people's crises, but many times I'm limited in what I can do.

But I try to help. But mostly it's ongoing. What is going on? Today on the show, I talked to Chris Robinson from the Black Crows and we're talking, you know, Black Crows, you know, the black fucking crows. We talked about how the band is back together. They put a new album out earlier this year called Happiness Bastards and they're heading back out on tour this fall.

Initially, when the Black Crows first had their time, I was so dug into the Stones, I just couldn't be, I just couldn't accept it. But you know, they're a good rock band and that's that. And he's a chatty guy, knows a lot about a lot of stuff, had a lot to say about things, art and music and otherwise. It was nice. It was a good talk. It was nice to talk to him. Also in the music zone, my buddy Alejandro Escovido hit us to this situation, to this event, to this album. The guitarist Jesse Mallon suffered a rare spinal stroke last year

and is dealing with the health consequences of that, including paralysis from the waist down, which is obviously awful. If you don't know Jesse, he was in the band's Heart Attack and more famously D-Generation, a lot of solo work. He's collaborated with a long list of music industry heavies over his career. And a benefit album was recorded to help Jesse out with medical and living expenses. It's got 26 Jesse Malin songs covered by his friends and collaborators like Bruce Springsteen, Tom Morello, little Stephen Van Zandt, Mike Lott, Billy Joe Armstrong, Elvis Costello,

and a lot more. Alejandro has a track on there. And the Springsteen single, She Don't Love Me Now is actually out right now. And the full album is out later this month. It's called Silver Patron Saints, the songs of Jesse Malin. And then Jesse will appear with a few very special guests

at New York's Beacon Theater for his first show since January, 2023. He'll be performing with Lucinda Williams, Ricky Lee Jones, Jacob Dillon, Jay Maskus, and a lot more. You can get tickets through the Beacon Theater. Some rock news. Oh my God. What's the difference between vestiges and memories?

Personal vestiges, vestiges of what I was, everything around me, even if it's only a year old, stuff, vestiges of previous obsessions. I was thinking about that today when I was flipping around on reels, cutting down, and I saw John Bryan and Elliott Smith covering a kink song. And I was like, I remember that month period where I needed to have everything the kinks ever did. And now I have them. And I know that.

Vestiges of my kink obsession, which was not kinky, but kink, as in the band Kinks. And yeah, I think that's almost what most large record collections are, vestiges of who we were and what brings us back. Where am I? I'm going to be in Vancouver for the final stretch of the golf show situation, but I'll also be in Tucson, Arizona at the Rialto Theater on Friday, September 20th. Then I'm in Phoenix at the Orpheum Theater on Saturday, September 21st. The rest of my fall dates of the all-in tour

have been rescheduled for next year. We just moved the ones in Skokie and Joliet, Illinois. Go to wtfpod.com slash tour to get the new dates and get tickets for all upcoming shows. It will be a new world then. And we'll be dealing with it. Maybe happily, maybe with extreme stress, terror, paralysis, and despair.

Which, you know, I guess actually is probably a better audience for me. But look, I'm hoping for the best and I can certainly, you know, I can infuse joy and celebration into my set. I can do that. I'll work on that. I'll work on it with a little bit of hope, but I'll also be naturally prepared for the other one.

Despair, fear, anxiety, paralysis, anger. fear, anxiety, paralysis, anger. Yeah, because I don't know if I mentioned this to you, but I'm Mark Maron, I'm in crisis management. Most of we imagined, most of we personal, but I am prepared for most cultural crisis and ready to be there to help out. Yeah, that maybe I should call my next special crisis management, colon personal.

I don't know, I don't know. What is going on in my brain? Yeah, that's a good question. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. It's back to school time and for kids, that's a time of possibility. But what about for adults? Are you making time for yourself to learn new things? Are you able to get

in touch with that sense of exploration and curiosity you had in childhood? Yeah, sometimes. Kids are always learning and growing, but as adults sometimes we lose the plot a little bit. Therapy can help you reconnect with your sense of wonder because your back-to-school era can come back at any age. Yes, I'll tell you what I learned a lot about in therapy, myself, Marc Maron, and my parents, Barry and Toby. Learning is the key to growth and if you wanna keep growing through knowledge,

better help is a great way to start. It's therapy done entirely online, which makes it convenient and flexible. There's no school bus schedule you have to stick to, but you know what I'm saying. Just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist and switch therapists at any time for no additional charge.

Rediscover your curiosity with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash WTF today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-l-p.com slash WTF. What is going on with my brain? It's, you know, there's a whole new portal opening for me around vestiges, personal vestiges and crisis management and my brain.

Where do we, how do we turn it? Like what's going on in my head right now? Okay, let's, let's break it down. Because I believe that other people are like this. I mean you can shut stuff off, sometimes successfully, but there's nothing not to be stressed out about or anxious or worried about. I mean it takes a lot of effort, sometimes lazy effort, where you just kind of lock in and turn your brain over to your phone to get out of it. But that can, depending on what you're watching, could cause more worry and panic.

But like, let's just break it down. Like, hold on, let me check in with my brain right now. Here we go. Does Buster have diarrhea? How come he hasn't shit in the last couple of days? Does he still have diarrhea? I know the other two don't have diarrhea. I need to get a key made.

Will that leak detector I had put in for insurance reasons Well, well, it just shut the water off, you know in a glitch because when I didn't program it the day I got it and I waited till the next day it shut my water off. Is that gonna be a problem while I'm gone? I mean, what does biotin do? Do I have a biotin deficiency? Is that why my hands are tingling? I don't think my conditioner is working the way it used to. Do I have to switch shampoos? Maybe that wasn't a good shampoo, but it was pretty good for a few months. Am I pudgy? Do I have cancer? Will they cancel my flight? Is kid okay? She's okay. Should I text her?

Does my dad still know me? What was that fake cheese? It was weird. Oh my god, I need to get some blood work done. What am I gonna eat later? What are my choices? I'm gonna be oh man So there you go That was just that was just a taste that was all going on Simultaneously, it was all happening in real time. This is how I stayed in the present. This is my meditation right now It's it's the it's a it's the meditating style called the Yammering Endlessly. Just keep talking until you've reached some other zone where you don't know what you're saying and it's not really attached to anything. That's not really the case here, but you just keep doing

it to avoid everything else and you get a frequency going. It's just a sort of, you know, kind of constant kind of rhythmic yammering. A lot of people do it. They just have to find people that'll fucking put up with it and listen to it. Am I right? So let's talk about fake beer for a second and then I'll bring on Chris,

Chris Robinson from the Black Crows. You know, I never was like a guy who had to, you know, have a fake beer after I quit drinking beer. I never was that guy, like I just wanted, because I thought it was dangerous. You know when I have that bottle looking like that? I mean, you know what, it's just one jump to real beer, right, and you can taste it, you're gonna want real beer.

But now they got all these good fake beers, and I gotta admit, was drinking it and I am drinking it. I enjoy it. I like tasting the beer. Do I feel closer to a real beer? Not really. But why am I enjoying so much fake beer? It's dubious. I think it's dubious. I always think back to one time when I was in rehab, the first time, the one time, didn't stick back in the late 80s. And there was a guy who was, he was a heroin addict and he had such a deep relationship with the needle, the apparatus, the paraphernalia, that even if he needed to take aspirin, he'd shoot it up. I don't know what that means really,

but you know, it's just a relationship with your delivery systems. It's like vaping, that's not good. It's like this dumb fucking snooze stuff. Even if it's no tobacco, it's just, it is kind of, it's not triggering, but it's just like you're addicted to a delivery system, but you aren't getting it though.

But I think fake beer is a better example of that. It's not real beer, but I like the taste. But does it mean that I'm gonna get an appetite for real beer? I don't know. I don't think so. Not feeling it. Don't wanna be fucked up.

Not on that anyways. I'd rather just be fucked up by what's going on in my brain. Chris Robinson is the front man of the Black Crows. They're kicking off their fall tour next week in New York. You can go to theblackcrows.com to see all the upcoming tour dates and you can get happiness bastards now on all music platforms.

Chris brought me a vinyl. I'll put that in the stack. I'll listen to it. I'll listen to it. It's good. All right,. I'll listen to it. I listen to it. It's good. All right. This is me talking to Chris. This is an ad from BetterHelp.

As kids, we were always learning and growing. But at some point as adults, we tend to lose that sense of curiosity and excitement. Therapy can help you continue that journey because your back to school era can come at any age. And BetterHelp makes it easy to get started with affordable online therapy you can do from anywhere. Rediscover possibility with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelpH-E-L-P.com today to get 10% off your first month.

Hey, folks, it's been a new experience for me up in Vancouver. I've had to arrange a little life for myself while I'm there. I get comfortable living in a new country for a while. Thankfully, I've been able to go back home every couple weeks or so, which helps me keep grounded. But if I wasn't coming home regularly, that would be four whole months I'd be up in Canada, which means four months my place is sitting there empty. That would be a good months I'd be up in Canada. Which means four months my place is sitting there empty. That would be a good scenario to host it on Airbnb and make some extra cash. So think about a situation that you've got coming up

where you won't be at your place. We all have vacations or extended stays somewhere else. While you're away, your home could be an Airbnb. But it doesn't have to be your whole home. A guest house works even a spare bedroom. If you're like me and you like showing off where you live, now's your chance to do it and make some extra cash at the same time. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.ca slash host.

All right? All right. All right? All right. So you know Space Man 3? Of course. I'm not sounding arrogant, it's just at a certain point in my life and the people in my life. Right. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. You know, it's funny, my brother's second oldest, Quinn Robinson, is here and LA's a musician.

He just got into Spaceman 3. It's one of those, it's weird with records, because we were just in the house, there's no too late to the party. No, no. Because, you know, any, this was kind of a jarring thing this morning, I found out you're younger than me, it bothers me.

I'm like, can't he be at least the same fucking ages? It's not not a different those 35 years on the road have kept me. Yeah, we're youthful Yeah, but like every day you can find new records Always I mean it's been that you know it's funny books movies records comics. It's I've been able to culturally inject other, my interests. Yeah. It's funny because I work a lot in LA with some younger bands and stuff and I'm impressed with some things I'm confounded by the Ute.

The Ute? Yeah. Like what? The, I, their lack of, there's a lack of like that killer instinct or something like... As artists or just in curiosity? I think they're curious, maybe a little, maybe it's all... I've met some that are that way, but some just seem they have all the talent, they, you know. And again, you can just go get what...

You can algorithm your way into a cool record collection. Sure, but like there's no historical context. And there's no representation of, yeah, of what, again, lesson, the hardest lessons in life are the ones that you have to live through. And going to record stores, I used to laugh like, you know, hey, there's a guy down the street who has 50,000 records. I mean, he's a pedo. So if we all go in there as a group.

Yeah, totally. Where did Larry go? Oh my God, he's a pedo. So if we all go in there as a group, you see? Yeah, totally. Where did Larry go? Oh my God, he went to the bathroom. And maybe we learned something. Well, I had guys like that in my life. There was a record store next to the restaurant I worked in in Albuquerque where I grew up when I was in high school. And that one guy, this guy Steve LaRue, who was into like The Residence, Brian Eno, Fred Frith, you know, John Hassel, all that shit. And he's hippin' me to that and I'm like, what the fuck is this? And then the other guy was all R&B, took me to his house, it wasn't a pedo, but introduced

me to Sam and Dave, Otis and all that shit. And this is like the late 70s. And I wouldn't have never had it. It's amazing too because as a dyslexic person from the deep south, I was always ill-prepared for anything but everything with a poetic construct. And whereas I would never have pencil or paper, whatever, for some reason, if I'm with, I would write down records all the time. Hang out, same thing, hang out in record stores.

In Atlanta, we had Fantasyland, Wux Tree, Wax and Facts. Yeah. And we had Friends back then. It was, you know, early, mid-'80s, late-'80s. You could still hit a junk store and find. Of course. Yeah. I still have like a monocopy, pristine copy

of like the Trogs' first record, like the second, third, and fourth Kinks records. Like things I found in La Grange, Georgia. It at some ill-fated attempt at the university there. Yeah, yeah. So that was all like that. Yeah, you can't find that anymore. You can't find it like a real kind of grail find. Everyone knows what they have. I have a good friend who actually does it sometimes. Well, there's guys who do that. But I asked him, my dear friend, Michael Klausman, who used to be the record buyer in New York

at Music... What was it called? Other Music. Oh, okay. Great record store. Yeah. But I'm like, dude, you know, and he's the guy who finds records that end up being like the super coolest...

$10,000 small issue. Or they reissue them, you know? Yeah. The cool labels will go... What have you found? You know? Oh, who, but he's like man. You have no idea for every cool record I find it's hundreds of thousands of nothing yeah, I've nothing of dreams

Yeah, I'm absolutely a lot of how many herb albert albums Can you dig through right and that guy made a fortune and he was cool. I'm not bagging I interviewed that guy He's like 80 or something, but like those guys who like figured out the record business I mean whether you like their music or not, you got to be like, holy fuck Yeah, especially when that business meant what it meant. Yeah. Yeah, I Feel lucky that way about Life that we were one of the last because of my age and because of the nature of what we were doing right We were one of the last people to be in that old world. It's true music business

Well, you're like a little younger than me, but we grew up in that crashing wave of the 60s So right so even like we missed zeppelin in a way Yeah, yeah, that's the weirdest thing is what I was in high school was all fucking Zeppelin, but that was already eight years old. I mean, by the time I'm in high school, I was like, why can't I see Echo and the Bunny Men? Oh, they never are coming to Atlanta. You know what I mean?

You live in Atlanta. You're never gonna see Suzy and the Banshees. Just forget it. But weren't they, they were doing those- Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean, Atlanta was pretty hip at one point. Oh no, are you kidding?

Atlanta, I mean, my... I mean, also, like you said, while we were talking about you, this is another thing, like, if you saw someone in a cool band tee, or, you know, that guy's... You would talk to, you would go, hey, my name's Chris, what other records do you like? What's the secret wisdom, man? What'd you find?

It's like one of us, one of us. You were looking at that Spaceman 3, I remember the guy who turned me on to Spaceman 3 was in Boston when I lived in Boston in the 80s. This guy, Jay Dobis, who claimed to be Jonathan Richmond's best friend from childhood, takes me and my girlfriend to his house. No reason to doubt him.

No. Why would you pick that guy? You know what I mean? Takes us to his house, gets us stoned as fuck, and puts on Space Man 3 and I'm like, what's happening? What is fucking happening? But you need those guys. They define your whole goddamn life. Oh, I, you know, David Macias, 30 Tigers Records. Yeah, yeah. You know, when he was kind Macias, 30 Tigers record. Yeah, yeah.

You know, when he was kind of like our very first manager. And Dave Macias, if you're out there, this is for you. Yeah. But he gave me the Madcap Laughs. Yeah. Sid Barrett. He gave me my first Big Stars. He gave me Big Stars third.

That's a life changer. And he gave me GP, Graham Parsons record. Holy fuck. Yeah. I mean, that's a life changer. And he gave me GP, Graham Parsons record. Holy fuck. Yeah. I mean, that's a good selection. Alex Graham and Sid, that's a big part of my musical thing. Yeah, well, it seems like the music that you play with the Brotherhood versus the Crows

is different in terms of like. Yeah, it was totally different. But that was more tending towards psychedelic shit. Much more, yeah. And so that's a whole part of your fucking brain that you don't do a lot with the Crows, right? I mean, I think one, so it's funny about that because I think-

And Grand Parsons too with the Brotherhood. I mean, yeah, yeah, but Grand Parsons has been big in the Crows too. We used to play GP songs all the time. We used to play She... I've had... I will have people come up to me in the Oslo airport and say, oh, I didn't know who the Flying Brito Beres were, but thank you.

You're a missionary. But we did that with... You know who did that for us? R.E.M. R.E.M. would play... This is my point. Yeah. The Velvet Underground. Sure.M. would play, you know, this is my point, the Velvet Underground. Everyone knows who the Velvet Underground is. Well, there's actually some squares out there who might not know what it is.

No, there's a lot of them who've done it, especially kids, right? But at the time, R.E.M. talked about that Velvet Underground. We liked Lou Reed, blah, blah, blah, blah, punk rock, and then the Velvet Underground are always mentioned with the Stooges and the MC5 and the New York Dolls. All this stuff we're into and confined pretty easy at the record store. But, I mean, when I was in 1981 or whatever, when I went to the record store

and bought the Velvet Underground... Which one? The first one, you know? And took it home, like... You know what I mean? Go to the party and bring that to impress a girl. They're like, oh my God, you're like a mental patient. Yeah, what's with Psy 2? It's like one song.

You know what I mean? But now you take it for granted, because it's like, oh, it's cool, the Velvet Underground are always cool, but... Dude, that whole thing, that whole Velvet Underground thing, that whole Kale-Lu-Ri trip, where Kale is coming out of that high art weird noise music scene in New York that no one knows about.

Lamont Young and all of those people. Then he hooks up with Lou. Did you watch that doc? I did. I did. It's crazy because that's the same thing in New York where you get these two guys because of the way New York was structured at the time. They come together and make this whole new thing. And that's how music works. And that's a good segue to what I,

about the music business today. No one wanted, people would say, no one wanted to hear that. People still say the first time they came to Los Angeles, Cher was like, I mean, this is coming from Cher. Yeah, okay. She didn't like them. Yeah. I know, I mean, look, everyone from Cher. Yeah. She didn't like them. Yeah. I know.

I mean, look, everyone, she didn't like the Velvet Underground. Yeah. So hey, everyone, you know what I mean? It's fine. This is a real story? It's true. I just read about it again recently in something else. Oh, and Dennis Hopper's, it's funny because you have Lenny Bruce in there too.

And it's so weird. Dennis Hopper was at the gig in LA the first time Lenny Bruce was arrested for obscenity. Sure. Wow. That's cool. You were there at that gig. Everything was a small town then, man. Could you imagine Ann Arbor, Michigan as just MC5 and the Stooges?

Yeah, of course the cops knew. There were assholes that live in that house who were naked and eating like egg rolls or whatever. And it all came off of that Mitch Ryder thing. Like it's, the regionality of some sounds is kind of crazy. But I like the fact that I always saw it. It was crazy. I think it's like accents, like colloquialism, humor, a cultural thing.

It's starting to be stripped away little by little. And it's funny because I think some things, I'm from the deep south and I'm from Atlanta. Well, that's, well, okay, it's a big city though. Well, yeah, but it's still, I mean, it wasn't as big of a city when my father was born there and when my- And there were fewer Peachtree named streets? No, there were always shit tons. 90 Peachtree streets.

That used to be the only reason you went. But then, I mean, Atlanta now, I mean, I left in 1990 when the city just like clicked over to 3 million people and everyone was like, what? Now it's getting close to 8 million people in Atlanta. And it's like, it's show business now. They've put together their own Hollywood there. It's happened, there's nothing going on here, show business. Got to go to Albuquerque, Atlanta or Vancouver. So when you're wandering around as a kid,

like where you grew up in the city? We grew up in the city until, then we ended up in Charlotte for a couple years. What, as a family? Yeah, yeah, my dad, it's just me and my brother. My dad, he was like Willie Loman. There's just me and my brother. Oh my dad He was like Willie Loman. He was schmata guy. Oh, really? He his dad my my so enclosed. Yeah They were in children's wear. My dad was in women's wear for a while and then got into

After yeah, Isaac Robinowitz my grandfather Ike Robinson born in Atlanta in 1907 my same years this house Are you Jewish? Well, I would be more if he didn't have a shiksa wife and my dad But then we don't the shiksa whittle. Yeah, I've been whittled down to 20% You've been genetically cleansed. Yeah. Well, by the way, I mean there's 11 Jews on the planet. You might want to rethink about you know, it might be 20 percent on paper. You might want to give me another 40. Yeah, yeah. Believe me, I had Jewish grandparents and it was like the idea that you wouldn't marry a Jewish woman

was, you know, they knew that we needed to make more. Yeah, there was something about a generation of Jews that's sort of like, but we're in America. Well, my grandfather, they're Polish Jews living in the South. So we had a refrigerator with gefelta fish, Dr. Brown, celery, and barbecue though. Well, yeah, yeah. Celery and ribs. Yeah. That's my new pop-up. I can't believe it's not doing very well. Celery and ribs. I think they still make celery.

Yes, of course they do. Yeah, for those nine people that enjoy it. Who are like, you'll never... Fifth generation. That's a sad thing about deli and shit is like, there's now enough generations that didn't grow up going there with their grandparents. They don't give a fuck. And if they went, they don't know what to order.

Yeah, but Katz's is still pretty good. You remember, you know, the food thing is probably the biggest Jewish thing. Yeah. And you know, out in the great Albert Brooks movie, Real Life, and he has that argument with the psychiatrist, Ted Cleary or whatever his name is. And he goes, they have a big argument. And he says, and then it goes nowhere. There's a stalemate and Albert says, let's just go get something to eat.

And he goes, Albert, I'm not like you. Food doesn't make things better. All right. What is that? But it does. Of course it does. By the way, I just got back from London yesterday. Yeah.

I went for the weekend with my son to go to the opening of the Premiership football season. Okay. It was fantastic. Yeah. But I always laugh and my family, we're mostly English in our DNA. Yeah. We're Georgians. I've been in Georgia since the second wave of debtors' prison or whatever. But when you see something like

Dunkirk or that documentary, you know, English people are incredible. And one of the things besides their humor, but one of the things that I like about them is, okay, so could you imagine the horrors of Dunkirk? You've been, you've already been on the run. So you are now you're in a flee. Everything is dramatic. You end up on this beach. No one can help you. The Germans are bombing you.

You're seeing your friends disintegrate all around you. The flotilla comes. You make a dramatic retreat back to England. And when you get there, they're like, cuff of tea? Oh, that's nice, isn't it? Toast? Toast, Auntie. Oh, well, thank you very much. You nice. Toast? Toast and tea. Thank you very much. You know what I mean? And you see the documentary, and they've just been through

the work and they're like, whoa, you know, and you're like, really? And by the way, now that I'm older and I've been through nothing as traumatic, well, maybe, you know, 1995 might have been my dunker, but you know what? A little toasted tea goes a long way to keep your soul good. Oh, dude, sometimes it's the only thing that, like, when I'm on the road, all I'm thinking about is coffee and where am I going to eat. Yeah. I mean, the eating thing is... Yeah.

It's just the whole day. We just did Europe in May and June, and one of my best friends in the world is a chef and restaurateur in New York. Who's that guy? And he's like, it's Frank Fossinelli from Frankie Spuntino. And he's olive oil. Well, it's funny, we've been friends forever. And he was like, I was like, look, this is my day's off.

So he helped me, it was, got finished. I called him up and he was like, and we finished. My wife and I went to Sicily for eight days. How was that? I've never, I can't even imagine it. It's, it's, it's to me, I have to, you know, I'm like, I want to relax and it's about food. And so he in his olive oil business, is Salinute,

which is to the west and the south of Palermo. Yeah. And it was insane. It was insane. But he was like out of all 35 years of constant touring. And food has always been a big part of it. Yeah. Even when we were kids and authentic culinary experience.

That's the whole thing. If you're in a place, go eat what the place has. And I have some of my dearest friends for 30 years, I met in the music business, like, you want to go to a club? You want cocaine? What do we want? Where does your family eat on Sunday afternoon? That's what I wanted. Right, yeah. That's the best way to spend time on the road. And the best way also to really start to have, I think, any sort of understanding

of how a culture feels. Yeah. And how it interacts with people, interacting with people. Yeah. And you said that was some part of your life as a musician from very early on? It was always a big part of the adventure out there.

Figuring out where to eat? Yeah. Yeah. But also the romance of food, you know what I mean? Like A Movable Feast, Hemingway, that book really played in me. Even simple things like when I was a kid and would read, Steinbeck, Indubious Battle, a lesser of his known novels. Right.

There's a scene in a greasy diner and the way all the food is prepared. You know what's really funny? Out of all the weird drug stuff that I've done, I told someone the other day, the weirdest trip I've ever had. Yeah. I know this is like talking about your dreams, but out of all the things,

one time I accidentally had a nitrous tank by my bed in Topanga Canyon for a couple of weeks after a party. You knew a dentist? Yeah. I watched YouTube. I was going to take my wisdom teeth out. Yeah. But I woke up, this was getting near 20 years ago. I took a big thing and I hallucinated. But my hallucination was I was in like a, in Salinas, California in 1927.

Dust bowl stuff. With like, but it was real. Yeah. I could smell the onions and like the chopped, uh, ground beef steaks and the gravy and all the workmen drinking coffee and smoking cigarettes. It, but it only lasted a few. Yeah. Because nitrous is like, you have the moment then it's like, nyan, nyan, nyan, nyan, nyan.

It was so weird. I was trans, it was like time travel. It probably was time travel. It was definitely some type of travel. And nitrous is like, uh, I remember when I was in college, some guy got a tank and everybody got a garbage bag. And it was kind of a sad party. Yeah, it was completely sad. Filling up those bags.

It's horrible. Looking back, I said, hippie crack, man. I'm not doing that anymore. You couldn't pay me to do it. I think it's a real brain killer, that one. Yeah. It took me a minute to remember other music. Yeah. I was trying to remember, because I remember I went to Atlanta one time, and I was trying to find indigenous food outside of just greens

and cornbread and stuff. And I remember there was, I can't remember what the hell it was called, but there was one thing from Atlanta, it was something stew or or Brunswick stew. Brunswick stew! Yeah, yeah. So I'm like, where do I get Brunswick stew? Yeah, and it wasn't easy. No, no, it's delicious It's great, but it was like at some fucking diner and I'm like, it just, and this is the only place I had it. It would be, yeah, it would be synonymous with like barbecue places. Right. And it's funny, because at a certain time, we were making a record in winter of 95, 96.

And we made it in Atlanta. And somehow, my brother was still living there. And he met this guy who would come down from North Georgia to deliver barbecue. But he would bring homemade Brunswick. We would get a big gallon thing at a time. I haven't had it in a hundred years. It's like peas, potatoes, and some like corn.

It's kind of a little bit tangy, kind of a vinegary kind of barbecue way. Yeah, and I knew nothing about it. They used to like, the real Brunswick stew, from what my dad told me was always squirrel meat. Oh really? Yeah. So I don't know if I had the authentic stuff.

I mean, you wouldn't know, would you? No. They weren't advertising that. So when you were growing up in Atlanta, like at sort of your few years younger than me, but like were you hip to like Vic Chestnut and all those cats that were over there? Yeah, well, Athens was its own world. Yeah. I mean, Athens was really, we were, the scenes in Athens and Atlanta were closely connected

by proxy. Yeah. But of course, we all knew the B-52s were from there and in Georgia, there's a band called Pylon. I don't know if you know. I know, yeah, I got the reference. Pylon is... One of the great unsung great bands.

Of bands of all time. I mean, that's another one. Whenever, if we DJ appropriately, my wife and I, the captain and Camille, we put on a pile on record, people if they don't know what they run over and they're like, what the fuck's this? Yeah. This groove.

And it's just post-punk, weird, hard school, very southern as well. Love Tractor, and then of course in Athens, we had REM. Yeah. There were lots of other, like, cool... Wasn't Chilton from down there, too? He... Alex is from Memphis, originally.

Okay, all right. And he would have been older. Right. I think by the time Vic and that scene's going on, we have already kind of immersed ourselves in more of a rock scene and had left kind of the indie rock punk scene that we started. You started in that, though? Yeah, yeah, that was our...

And what was it, just you and your brother? Yeah, we were called Mr. Crow's Garden, then... Mr. Crow's Garden. Yeah, and then we had, we left the E in the name because it was a English book, a children's book, called Mr. Crow's Garden. Well, what was the decision? What kind of music were you playing before you committed to rock?

I mean, I think that, I mean, it was rock music, but it wasn't, we weren't, like our roots side of music would be more like, we would sound like the gun club. Oh, fuck dude. You know what I mean? Like that kind of, we liked LA things, X and the gun club, but then we had like the, I have an X tattoo. Dude, John is like, he's been on here a few times. He's a fantastic man. I just went to see them, like they sound as good as they ever did. Billy Zooms is one of the best guitar sounds in the world. And now he just sits there and smiles, as opposed to stands and smiles.

It was crazy, man. And she's like, as out of, like I was trying to do a bit about it, like the benefit, you know, in order to keep your vitality. Like, can seeing Xen now, because she's got to be our age, you know? I think, I mean, that band starts in 1977. Right. I think they're in their mid-60s.

60s. But like she's still lit up and like right on it. I saw her a few years ago in Petaluma when we were living in NorCal and they were unbelievable and full of fire and passion. Totally. The teeth are still in it, you know? That's what I like. Well, that's why I said, I said, there's a benefit to being out of your mind

and never ever getting any help at all. Yeah, totally. Well, I mean, she's a true artist. I know. She's a true poet. Yeah, totally. I mean, people, she's a true artist. She's a true poet. I know. Yeah. Totally. I mean, some people, we love to... You have William Burroughs.

William Burroughs famously said, I don't really trust anyone if they haven't been in the bug house. You know what I mean? You're talking about some people who... You had to have a lot of bohemian perspective to be able to deal with- Freedom of mind. And, you know, let's face it, before art was just commerce, and, you know, it was for, you know, I don't get anywhere without being able to connect to the outsiderness of the,

especially beat poets and beat writers. But I have my influence in, you know, the writers that influenced them and... And then also then you got the blues. The cursed poets for Lane and... Yeah, yeah, Rambeau and Baudelaire. I loved that growing up. But they're out there... You don't probably want Rambeau at your house.

No, at the edge of sanity, on purpose. Yeah. That was the whole thing, William Blake. Fucking out of his mind. Well, at the edge of sanity, on purpose. Yeah. Yeah. That was the whole thing, William Blake. Yeah. Fucking out of his mind. Well, I mean, we have this thing now where, you know, you can, some shaman from Switzerland

can give you some medicine. And I'm like, have you ever done any research about real shamanism and like, what? No, I used to work at Starbucks. Yeah, I mean, a real shaman would be the person in a tribal situation, a community living outside of how we live, that was completely deranged person.

But, you know what I mean? It's the same thing, like, oh, everyone that you love is bipolar. Sure. I mean, the most talented people, the ones that... That's my point about my comment about Bohemia. Can you allow them this trespass of their own destructiveness or their own mental brilliance and depravity or whatever? I don't know how you want to. Yeah, right, right.

I don't know. I don't know how you want to frame that. It's the idea, the essence of beat. Yeah. Yeah. So, but like with your brain working like this, I mean, the blues must have held you together somehow. The blues, it's funny because being in Atlanta,

in black Mecca, in the city that, you know, in a racial history of Atlanta is very unique in the United States. It was never been perfect, it never will be perfect, but I would say a lot of the advances of race relation in Georgia, the ripples of that are still being felt in America. And I think around the world sometimes because people will look at race in America, it's so vivid, you know what I mean? Because of our proximity to slavery. Pete Slauson Yeah.

Pete Slauson But my father... Pete O'Brien And it's a young country. That's like also the difference between England. In the last hundred years, they were bombed into almost non-existence. That's in their current memory. Pete Slauson And they think German people are funny because of it. But yeah, race in America, the implications and institutionalization of it and everything else, it's never gonna be gone. But like you said, it's funny, like that, being a child in Atlanta and going downtown

with my grandmother on the bus and someone's housekeeper, this lady would sit there and just hum gospel music to herself. In my world would be now when I'm older, I realize, oh, how does music and vibration play a part in African mysticism? I mean, it does. Rhythmic things, harmonic things. Yeah, if you go back through skip James, you're right there I mean that I mean, it's crazy I had Taj Mahal sitting in here once and he picked up a guitar you didn't want to play but he picked up this Okay guitar, you know, I forced him

And I brought up skip James and then he starts going at it and that those notes that skip would play go all the way back To and then skip James learns to have you ever heard Skip James play piano? Because he plays like piano that would have been taught to somebody who taught him from the 18th century. He played a real archaic form of piano. But my father was a folk singer, so he was a rock and roller in the 50s. He had a top 40 record called Booma Dip Dip.

And then that didn't... Did you guys ever cover it? No, but it's a great song. He has another one called Start to Jump that would be better for us to cover, but it wasn't a big hit, so... You know, so way to go, Dad. Yeah, yeah. But he had rock and roll dreams.

He did have rock and roll dreams, and he was talented. But I think when that kind of thing didn't pan out for him, But he had rock and roll dreams. He did have rock and roll dreams, and he was talented. But I think when that kind of thing didn't pan out for him, he immersed himself in traditional folk music. Okay. And he knew he was a very good pick. Travis Picker? You know, he had a great finger pick.

He knew a lot about, you know, and when he would come home, he would play the get out the guitar. My brother still has that guitar. It's a 1953 Martin D28. Oh, wow. That Martin just made a beautiful reproduction of, for anyone who wants one. Of your brother's?

Of my dad, the original one. Oh, really? Yeah, it's called the Appalachian. That was the name of his folk dough, the Appalachians. So they're doing classic, like, Gaelic? They would do, yeah, everything from Woody Guthrie songs to broadside things that, you know, Shady Grove, you know. A lot of the, a lot of the canon of that era.

The records he made were- What, mid-60s? Early 60s. Okay. So a lot of those records are kind of like that 12-string, well, right, and the serendipity singers, and that kind of more commercial folk. Yeah.

Which is funny because he was real hard ass about what, he was the guy who like, I didn't buy Blonde on Blonde, I'm not buying an Electric Bob Dylan record. He was like that guy. Drawing the line. Yeah, so I'm not crossing that. I'm like, dad, Jules and binoculars hang from the head of the mule, you're not into that?

Come on, man. The ghost of electricity housing the bone of her face. Jeez, I can't find my knees. But, you know, it was funny. I loved, talk about outsider culture. I loved those songs. When he sang those songs, they meant something to me, not because it was my father,

but because the music was very alive, and there were stories, and I could connect to it in a cultural way even before I knew what it was. But being in Atlanta and also hearing gospel music, hearing R&B music and just having a being adjacent to all this beautiful black culture and African, drives from Africa. It really meant something to me. And then by the time, but I played basketball and I was really into like 80s cameo, look inside Prince, Vanny Six, The Time.

The first Prince single is Soft and Wet. I didn't even really know what that meant. Except does someone have to clean that up? And then later Prince would say, yes. It's a big puddle. Don't touch it. Then I find 96 Rock was like the AOR rock station, but it was pretty boring. So I had to find like, you know, luckily we, back then on cable, we had USA Network, which is now just SVU or SUV. I don't know which one. Police things.

Seamen retrieval unit. Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Dusters. That's niggas. Speaking of, ugh. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But they would have programming that was, I would wait for it.

That's the first Rude Boy by the Clash comes on. I'm like, okay. Now we're talking something that I feel. My taste in literature, my taste in movies are going towards the strange and something different and more obtuse than, you know. But the show that really kicks it in is a show with the late great Peter Ivers,

who's an amazing character in American counterculture, if you will. And he hosts a show called The New Wave Theater. So this is the first time I see the dead Kennedys and circle jerks, 45 Grave, castration squad, the plugs, fear, you know, like, I mean, and as a kid, I think the only other thing like that that talked to me was one flow of the cuckoo's nest, like when they're all sitting around like, I was like, oh, this is normal.

That's what my mom used to say. You look like you're in one flow of the cuckoo's nest. I'm like, I am. Why did you move to the suburbs? Look what you did to my sensitive son. But that put us and our interest in this world of other music that wasn't on MTV, that you had to go to the college radio. What's the age difference between you and Rich?

Two and a half years. He's younger? Yeah. So he's just following you? He has his own thing, but he said many times I was the expeditionary that brought records into the house. And some things like he didn't like. Yeah.

But he would pick kind of things he... Right. And when does he start playing? When... One, I think he's 15 when I'm 17. And you're playing too? Well, we were bad kids in our own way. Mom and Dad, I think we're obviously, we're intellectually always very inspired and stimulated,

but I wasn't a very good student. What did your mom do? She worked with dad, but in the late 50s, early 60s, she was a flight attendant for Eastern Airlines. Wow. Yeah. But you guys are singing and stuff? Well, this is more for my therapist,

but dad didn't really. It was weird. It was a weird dynamic. I would love to try to sing, but he said I was incapable of singing. Now do you think that came from his own bitterness about music? I think it, yes, I think it came from a lot of weird things. I don't think my dad didn't love me,

but I think my dad was threatened by just me, my intellect, my curiosity, also being very secure in the things that interest me and were inspiring me. Almost that young man. Yeah, I had that same experience. And then they do things where they're sort of like, they try to one-up you and they can't. That's the most sad moment where it's beautiful, but where they're like, I'm gonna meet you at your level and they can't.

I remember one time the Black Queever like on our second album. So we're a big band. Yeah. At that 1992, we're a huge band in the world. And I was back in Atlanta and it was like my birthday, like my 24th, 25th, 6th, I don't know. Yeah.

And I didn't really, at the time, all our friends from the music scene don't want to deal with us because we went from being just like them to not being like them and having those guys sell out. Yeah, totally, success. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The success shame.

But my parents had a party and a couple people came over, a guy, a friend, I always remember a friend of my dad's, because my dad did a lot of acting and stuff as well. Oh, so he's got a full spectrum of bitterness. Yeah, yeah, totally, completely. So they're over at the house? But he was like, what are you listening to? And at the time, I had my first house, and it was funny, they bought a house down the street, which I was always bummed about.

Your folks? Yeah, right down the street from my first rock and roll house. In Atlanta. Yeah. But we would spend a lot of time in that house with my guitar player and our keyboard player. And we were really starting to get into psychedelics. So we're taking mushrooms all day. I had speakers out in the house.

But I was obsessed with, and I'm still obsessed with Thelonious Monk. Yeah. I just got two Thelonious records yesterday. It's like a lot of brilliant corners going on at my house. And I said, oh, you know, Thelonious Monk. And my dad's like, only an asshole would listen to that. I was like, wait a minute. What did you say? I remember being one of those things where I was like, I love you,

but you sound like an asshole. You know what you're saying sounds ridiculous. And that was just like, you know what I mean? That was the fight though. That's amazing. I alone is, who's arguing? He's not the like, maybe the singularly greatest, one of the greatest American music genius is that. Well, there's a moment like I used to do a bit about it.

So do you remember the moment you realized your dad was a fucking idiot? Yeah, it was a big moment. It was when my dad went from listening to Johnny Guitar Watson, Sly and the Family, Stone and Jimmy Reed, and he had Africa by Toto on in the Mercedes. Oh, no, no, no, this is over.

We didn't even know what erectile dysfunction was. You know what I mean? But here we are, 40 years later. Now we all know what was happening. Wow. I'm just kidding, my dad was all man, I could get an erection at any time. Sure, just like all of us.

You pull over on the side of the road and beat up someone and then go home. And fuck the car. Yeah, fuck the lawn mower. Yeah, yeah. Have a, fuck that, just get a blow job from the lawn mower. Yeah. So don't tell your mother.

So, but his reaction to your success was? Well, you know what I mean? It's funny because it's, it's dynamic, to say the least. I, of course, we loved our father very much. He was a difficult guy, but he was also, my dad was very funny. You know what I mean? I get all of my social, a lot of my social things. I never saw the

world through his eyes. That's something people do. What, empathetically, you mean? I just think because of monkey see monkey do. I mean, you know, just I think the psychology behind a lot of our behavioral things are just, you know, we're primates. We see someone do it. Yeah, sure. You know, you do it. But you didn't feel like you saw the world

from his point of view? Most definitely not. I've always had a more artistic, like I tease, but I'm not teasing. If I had to say, if someone asked me what I really am, and I know that I'm not a poet in the classic sense, that I, you know, but the way I interact with the world and the way I can put the world in a certain context,

it makes sense for me. It keeps me interested and involved and can deal with this sadness and degradation and the great joy and jubilation is through poetic. And because that's where all of it comes together for me. Yeah. But he would be like, oh, who writes a check to the poet?

Where do you pick up your check? But that's so odd because like on the other side of you, he was a folk singer. You gotta be grateful that you had that in the house. Yeah, most definitely. You know what I mean? It's a strange. Yeah.

But he was also always thinking in terms of the hit record, I guess, or what was. I think his thing was, and he would be right, and again, these were our lessons to learn, is just how disgusting the music business can be. Sure. It was. You were talking earlier about how you got in under the wire of what was left of the old style music business.

I'm glad that we survived all of it. Again, I'm ultimately the wisdom of seeing it. When it happened, when Shake Your Moneymaker happened, and we're just these dudes from Atlanta who like anyone else, you think you know, but you don't know. But it's interesting you chose those songs, Otis and Elmore and that kind of stuff. Yeah. Well, I mean, so the roots music is always in there. I mean, the way I've sing today from where we started was very different because I would have been really conscious about,

I don't know man if I want to sound like that. You know what I'm saying? Like, I don't want to... What, be a white soul singer? Yeah. I don't know if that's... First off, I had been... I didn't know I would be capable. Yeah.

But, you know, my love of Funkadelic, of Sly and the Family Stone, of Ike and Tina Turner, and Peoples, you know, so. The thing that happens that's really important is this guy named George Dacuulius comes along, sees our band, gives us a chance, believes in us, sees that we have some talent, the only one who did. Well, what were you playing when he saw you? Well, he saw us, we played a club in New York called Drums, was later Scores, the strip bar. Okay. And this is what kind of kids we were.

Yeah. You know, it's funny, my dad would be like, you can take the van, he had a van for his clothes and shit. Yeah, he's all right. We would drive, oh, Big Stan was the best, don't get me wrong. Yeah. But we would like, oh, you guys have,

you're the third, you know, there's five bands, you're the second one. You could get to New York on Thursday, it's $200. Right. And we'd get in that band. And it's you and your brother and who? And the first band, our first band. Who was in, who went to that gig? Our first drummer, Steve, our bass player, Scott.

Steve Gorman? Yeah, our first bass player was. I played with him. Okay. I have a gig. Good guy. Scott. Scott Schamel was our first bass player. Yeah. But we went up there, we played our show.

I remember the Canadian band Blue Rodeo headline. Yeah. But we come out and we did some of our originals, but we played Down in the Street by the Stooges, and we played No More, No More by Aerosmith in our set. This guy George comes backstage and he's like, hey buddy, how you guys doing? It's George. I like your band.

I like your cover tunes. Maybe we could talk about the originals. That's how it starts and he really pushes Rich and I as songwriters. He turn you on to shit? But that's the thing, I was talking about 96 Rock and shit. They were playing 38 Special and shit. Sure.

They weren't playing. Not even Skinnerd. Yeah. They weren't playing stuff that I've thought. Yeah. But he comes over, so I'm always into this Roots music. It's always been a part of me. And now, you know, we have this kind of new punk and this,

and like I said, kind of indie rock. Sure. And he drops the, and he brings over a record, and it's a nods as good as a wink to the blind horse by the faces. He puts on Miss Judy's Farm, and it was a nods as good as a wink to a blind horse by the faces. He puts on Miss Judy's Farm and it was one of those like the world stops for a minute and I heard the guitar, I heard the beat, I liked the idea of Maggie's Farm. There was something about the lyrics about kicking the poodle and stuff that was a little off center from like just a rock

song. And also you know Rod from being a solo artist so you got to back load it. Yeah I know him like yeah from if you think blonde sexy hair or pot legs and young Turks and things. Right and it's almost it almost ruins him in your brain. Well I didn't know. I mean you know until you know. But it's weird because you know he was so everywhere as Rod Stewart and whatever that was.

And I didn't get into the faces till later. So when you hear the faces, you got to separate that Rod from that. Yeah, I hadn't even heard him in the Jeff Beck group. Right. Oh my God. So that's a whole other thing. And, you know. Right. So he drops the needle in the faces in your brain. And it's Maggie's farm. I mean, Miss Judy's part. And the guitar, and then the beat comes in with the whirl.

I was like, whoa, whoa. I didn't know. And then when my voice changed, people say, oh, do you know, you sound like, you ever hear Steve Marriott? I'm like, I don't know who that is. I mean, I would know, like, Itchy Coupark. I knew that was the small faces, but I didn't really, you know what I mean?

This is 40 years ago now, we're getting near. So I'm like, oh, I knew Humble Pie from 30 Days in the Hole. Right, that's it, right. But then I'm buying Humble Pie records and I'm like, okay, if someone thinks I sound like this, this guy is on another fucking plane. He's like Tina Turner. Yeah, Marriott was like, you watch him.

Little white English guy who can sing like that. Crazy. And I think Humble Pie gets a bad rap as people kind of lump them in with, you know, fog hat and the kind of boogie bands. And they had a hard element and a boogie element. But no, but they were a lot grittier. He was a great songwriter.

Totally. And he was, you know, fantastic book, All or Nothing came out a couple of years ago about him. Oh really? I mean, you know, he had mental issues. But then again, isn't it beautiful that rock and roll is like the last bastion for mentally ill people to actually get through the world,

hopefully without hurting, they always hurt themselves. Right. But you guys are magicians, man, because I've talked to a lot of front men and sidemen and musicians in general, but the guys who can hold that stadium thing, how the fuck do you even do that? Yeah. I mean, I don't even know how...

I've been watching... I watch old stone stuff and it's like... Because you guys are kind of the same way. You're playing with each other. I watch Creedence Clearwater in England. At the Royal Albert. You're playing with each other. I watched that Creedence Clearwater in England. With the role, Albert. Yeah. And it's like Fogarty is just like right next to the drummer, they're doing this. Yeah, we're very archaic in our way that we approach that.

Yeah. But you know what? I saw the Stones a couple weeks ago at SoFi. My wife and I took my daughter, who was with us for the summer, who's 14 and a bass player. Yeah. I'm like, you know what? First off, I thought it was incredible. Sure. I went because they're my favorite band,

because they're always inspiring. Yeah. Because Mick Jagger is a monkey genius, and Keith has always been my hero, and I wanted to see them, and I was blown away. The guitar and her play, I mean, yeah, they're fast, man. They're fucking 80 years old! No backtracks!

80 years old! No backtracks, the fucking thing amazing about seeing the Stones, I saw them before Charlie died down here at the last tour before he passed away, and they might fucking, you know, kinda fucking plod through the first couple before they find their groove. And I'm like, kudos.

They did that in the 60s. Yeah, I mean, they're famous for the band that like takes a minute to find it. Yeah, and then when they find it, you're like, we're in. And the moments of that show I'll remember forever. But just like you said, it's just guys on, that's the thing I think that people, and it's funny, it's as if, you ever see like old,

like heavy metal, like hair metal documentaries where they're always like, then Nirvana came and it was over for us. Yeah. Like really? Really? That's what you think happened, like if Nirvana hadn't come, you would still be playing like Wet N' Wild Weekend or whatever.

Yeah, I don't know. You guys didn't write any songs. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You didn't write any songs. Right. You look cool, you fucked a lot of chicks, you ran around, you had a scarf on you. You didn't really write a lot of songs. All right. It's about songwriting.

And... Yeah. But I think it's funny that you think the music business did that to you. I mean, the music business is like anything else. Yeah. But I think it's funny that you think the music business did that to you. The music business is like anything else. What is it? No one ever... I see a documentary guy goes, I mean, we did so much for the label. I'm like, did so much for the label? You think... You know what?

This would be me and again, my outsider needs. I knew one thing when our first record was big, and I would come do all the... I was the schmoozer at that time. Jesus Christ. But I would be like, these fucking people, they wouldn't let you in their house to have a cup of tea. We're disgusting to them. And you're only as good as... To them, they don't care. They don't know.

It truly was us versus them. And I truly could see it and feel it. So I'd be... Why would I... And it's kind of been the story of the Black Crows. Even what I did in my solo work was always like, well, you can't do that. Well, yeah, we fucking can't. And it's not because we think we're better or anything. It's just because this is the only job we could do where no one can say, hey, put that down. You know, I don't have to. Yeah.

The guy from the label would say, hey, what do you think? I'd be like, great, save it. You have 50 other bands that might wanna hear your bullshit. We have one band. And I'd rather make my own mistakes, because I can live with my creative mistakes, my personal mistakes. I'm not a child. I can take responsibility for it. But I want to be calling my own shots.

If I listen to some guy at the record company, then you're like just some people who learn to play music and are being told what to do. Yeah, and also, did you ever feel, did you have, I mean, was there a point where you thought you were getting fucked? I mean, to be honest, I, maybe. Because that second record was so fucking big.

But you know, the thing is, again, it's no excuse. Yeah. But I and Rich and I, as different as we are, have always felt that I couldn't really start to think about it. Number one, because of the way my mind works, I really have no relationship with money, finance.

I have no idea how it works. Right. That's just what it is. Yeah. And it's not for a lack of trying to figure it out. So but again, the one thing I did have an innate understanding and a deep relationship with is my creative process and what I wanted to do and what we wanted to do and how it should look and smell and feel.

And there was a weird side of me that even if I knew more about the business side of things, I know a lot more now. Sure. But at that time, I would have taken any smidgen of energy away from the vision of what we were trying to do as a band. In terms of growing the vision, how do you see that? After the first three records, right? You're thinking, because I listened to the new one, it's a different kind of record. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think we've always, it's a different record, but it's a record that we've allowed ourselves the joy of what we feel real essence of rock and roll is.

Right, and it's all varied. All the songs are varied and there's a thickness to the fucking guitar that's a little different. Oh, yeah, yeah. And there's a couple of drivers on there that are almost punk rock. And it's- Well we wanted to, you know, the whole when we got this thing back together, you know, I was doing my CRB, I was in, every day was Woodstock, every night was Altima. Uh.

Yeah? Uh, I'm just kidding. Well when did you get hip to that kind of, like, was it hanging out with Lesh or like, when did you start to get trippy? Well, I think the, you know, I think, you know, one of the things we want, we were never, for whatever reason,

we ran away from Shaker Moneymaker and then we ran away from Southern Harmony and we, I think there's a line through it all that is very much my brother and I's voice. Yeah. But we felt like we know the record company wants us to play some riff rock. Right. But we weren't interested in it.

We have all these other musical interests and ambitions. Yeah. We're in a very punk aesthetic. Hey, everyone's doing this. We're not. Everyone looks like this. Yeah. We don't. Yeah.

You know what I mean? Part of the art is- Fuck you. And there's a contrarian thing. Sure. Some people would call it shooting yourself in the foot, other people would call it freedom of expression. I couldn't walk. I wouldn't even have kneecaps at this point.

You know what I mean? Yeah. They'd be like, you know, I'm lead vocals, stumpy Jim. You know what I mean? Yeah. But again, I you know I Laugh and I see with the release of happiness bastards I start to see things where people you know by the time we make a marka Okay, sound garden, Alice and Jane's Pearl Jam. They're fucking

Smashing pumpkin. Yeah, great bands. Yeah cleaning up right And we're over here fucking around with some psychedelic, we're like Hawkwind or something. You know what I mean? We look like Hawkwind. Drugs and crazy. But now, people start to look at your music in a different light. They start to be able to see these records in a different thing. Like, well, I had records not what I thought it was when it came out.

Of course not. Of course not. Because there was expectation when it came out based on what the record company had contextualized you as, and certain fans like certain things. Like when we talk about radio rock and about all these different things we were talking about at the beginning, as you and I were both brought up in a way where you had to fight mainstream music or you would be stuck in it. It's like your dad listening to Africa.

Like how the fuck did that happen? From the radio. So in order to find your way around that shit, you got to take those chances. Completely. And you know, we took some, you know, but like I said, it's funny, we're still here and we're doing better than we ever have. I mean, I think the record we just made, you know, that was the other thing too. Then we start to splinter off after the first 10 years and, well, I'm writing songs and I want to interject my songs. But looking back at that, I'm glad I did.

There's some moments that the fans really like and I think that I wrote some quality songs. But now, where I am today, I know the Black Crows, what we are is Rich writes the music, I write the lyrics and melodies, and we put them together and we work it out. And that's what you hear on our last record, is like, there's no shooting ourselves in the foot. There's not even a moment of,

hey, working with a producer like Jay Joyce, who is one of the most sought after guys, super successful. Yeah. Even Rich and I, when the old ways come back, we're like, look man, if we're going to work with this guy, we got to let him do his thing. To our great astonishment and surprise, it was a symbiotic thing.

It worked like boom, he picked, I'm more chaos in the studio, just like Rich and I are completely different personalities. I like things fast, boom, try this. It drives people crazy probably. Yeah. I'm very hyper creative that way, and Rich is a little more subdued and wants.

So here we are all these years in records later, but we found a guy and Jay who could pick up on both of that, interject when he had to and that communicates to the whole ensemble. It's interesting with all your the broad spectrum of what's coming through you musically and the sort of like, it seems like Rich is kind of grounded in those riffs that he fucking likes and those, you know, those, some of that three chord stuff

and open tunings and whatever. But in the new record, there's a couple, like I could tell like, what is it? Wilted Rose, that's like classic Black Crowes song, right? Yeah, I mean, ballad in that ballad, yeah. And then there's other ones on there that like there's not a lot of chord changes, it's just dry.

Well, that was the other thing we were like, getting back together and doing Shake Your Money Maker was important because that was another thing we never thought we'd do. Play the whole album, start to finish, but then we did it and it was great. Yeah. I was like, this is what we are though.

It also helped me focus and define something that I hadn't thought about a long time. That's right. Look, I'm a front man. Yeah. In my solo band, I'm just a guy playing guitar and singing folk songs. Yeah.

Right. I think this is what I'm just a guy playing guitar and singing folk songs, kind of. Right. I think this is what I'm supposed to do. I'm supposed to feel good about who I am on stage and what I'm giving you, my energy, my vocals, the lyrics, and the way I dance. Yeah. But I have to feel that from these guys and I have to get it back from them. Yeah.

But more than ever in my life, I realized I'm really like what I like it. And I have the perspective of saying, no one fucking does it. If Steven just retired for real, well, there's one gone. You know what I mean? He's not going to go out and shake it anymore. Mick Jagger is probably the archetypal front man for people like me and Steven. I would say even maybe Robert Plant in some ways. I tell you, he's an amazing front man and who I look at as someone who I really think

is Dave Gohan from Depeche Mode. Oh yeah. I saw him last year and I was like, oh my God. Different than me, a little bit more theatrical. But I'm, you know, and I was like, oh my God. Different than me, a little bit more theatrical, but I'm, you know, and I see that, I'm like, yeah, yeah, you know what I mean? Like that's a show and you can feel, it's, so you're something else.

You're almost like a born again entertainer. In that kind of way, yeah. Like you realize like the full arc of the fuck you-ness has kind of like leveled off and you're like, well this is what I do. Yeah. I'm not like other guys. You know what I mean? I'm gonna get there, man. You know what I mean? But, but in between then and there, I think, you know, it's a, it's exactly what a rock and roll band should be. There's highs, lows, there's the fucking purgatory. Right, but thank God you had the brotherhood to blow steam off and do something that enabled you to embrace that more poetic trip that you're on.

Completely, and to be on just a sheer physical level, to take those years in the CRB, I mean, we were doing over 200, 250 shows a year. Two sets a night, five nights a week, that was the CRB. But doing something with my voice that was not what I do in the black clothes, I think gave me such power and strength in my vocals today that, you know. But also makes you a full person, because then you don't have to spend your life going like, oh, fuck, I'm stuck. You said take the steam off, and I've used that description about, look, man, if it hurts

anyone's feelings or whatever, okay, I had to get out of that. I was miserable. Is that Dunkirk? Is that 95? Yeah, that's where it starts. But as you know, the war goes on for quite a while And then you know the worst part of any war is the reconstruction Well, how bad did it get what was the what was the fucking thing?

Did the drugs get bad Yes, but I love drugs, so I'm not gonna blame it on that Yeah, I mean think, especially the first 10 years of the band, every fucking band, whether it's the Spaceman 3, or My Bloody Valentine, or whatever, any band, I think would say, oh, if we had just stopped for six months, but you'd never do. You never do. And I was resentful and depressed and lonely by the end of the 90s.

And that is represented in my drug use. Although I was kinda teasing, but I will never, I don't look back at any of that with any regrets. But what about the emotional strain on your relationship with the band and with your brother and all that shit? Yeah. But again, without it, I'm not here. You know what I mean? These are hard lessons to learn. To be honest, I'm definitely not here today

without meeting my wife when I did and forging our partnership and relationship and as someone who I ultimately love and respect who is, you know, an artist and- She did the cover? Yeah. Yeah, it's great. But also just helping me get back to like what's, you know, like let's- Who are you? Yeah, let's start stripping. Yeah. Yeah, it's great. But also just helping me get back to like, what's, you know, like, let's. Who are you?

Yeah, let's start stripping. Yeah. Like. Right. And that goes hand in hand with the loving the music again, like loving like real rock and roll again. Well, that's from. I mean, I always listen to it, but.

But doing that first record all the way through, that must have brought it right. That's what it was. It was like a fire. And then it was like, oh yeah, it's funny on the new record, Rats and Clowns, the second song. I tell people that song took five minutes to write. Rich played me that. And I was like, oh, you've been seen downtown hanging with the rats and clowns. And I was like, okay, we got it. Yeah. And it's, there's a little ACDC, there's a little punk attitude. And it's very much, but it didn't take any thinking about it.

Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Yeah. It was only instinctive. Yeah. And when we record that, I just brought that track up as an example. Sure. By the time Rich plays the guitar solo on that track, and we, and that's the most fun I've ever had in the studio.

Yeah. Recording that song. It took 10 minutes and then Rich played that solo, and I was like fucking in his face yelling, yeah. Yeah. He's ripping and ripping. I'm like that, but that's what you maybe get away from. Right.

The immediacy of that kind of creation. Yeah, right, then and there. And this is something that, well, hey, if it was pretentious, if it was false, it wouldn't resonate. Right. No matter what we've done, it has to be sincere. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And in those moments are the moments that like, okay, so we can just finish three years of touring and he and I are in a great place.

Good. He and I are ready for the next chapter. We're ready for whatever happens. There's no... I can't imagine how painful it is to have that kind of strain with your brother. Well, it's... Yeah. But again, you know, all families are the same, but every family's different. It's like bands. You know, every band like... Every band goes to the gig and goes in the dressing room and does the show, but in between A, B, and C, everyone does it different. It's culture.

But for me also, like I was talking about Camille or whatever, she's also the one that just put in my mind and my heart, you're this way and he's that way. And before I'd be like way and he's that way. You know, and before I'd be like, why is he that way? He'd be like, why is he like this? And it's just, but we have a different respect and understanding and also, you know, without, I can put my brother as a musician,

I can really see who he is better now and how fucking talented he is and how he does something that, there's a lot of fucking great guitar players out there and I've played with a lot of great guitar players and we love their records and we go see them and Rich is, I have to put, I mean, he's not the fucking, you know,

he's not ripping like this virtual, also soloist, but what he does is unique. Yeah. Finds a space. And he has a sound and he has his ideas and what he wants to say emotionally through his music is something that has always affected me. And again, it gets back to songwriting. All this shit, man, rock and roll and rock stars and getting on stage and shaking it, all of that's cool. But, and it's all great. But we started as two kids who wanted to write songs.

Because that's the only thing that we couldn't, we didn't learn Stay Away To Heaven, we're not playing that, You know what I mean? It's like. Yeah. Well, that's better off. The solo to Eruption, we're not fucking around with that.

We started writing our own song. Yeah. Well, yeah. I'm the same way, but I'm never a professional musician. But I'm not going to sit there for three days and learn the solo just to act like you know it casually at a party or something. Yeah. You're like, cool, Hotel California.

Great, that's what we need. You know what? God damn it. Could we just hear Hotel California once in our life? Fuck, I haven't heard it in 12 seconds. I just remember I worked at a restaurant when I was younger, and this guy picks up a guitar and he's talking to me, and he's a guitar player. I don't know what he ended up doing but he just starts playing Little Wing like and he's pretending like it was just casual and he's still talking to me. Exactly but it looked like it took so much effort for him to just play

that casually that that was his big plan. I'm gonna learn this fucking thing I'm just gonna like yeah yeah but it just didn't add no fucking groove it was a great moment well you know that's going on a guitar center right now so what's the plan for the tour you're gonna tour you can play this most of this record and well yeah we you know we had we did the happiness bastards tour and it was fantastic because we had been doing the Shaker Moneymaker Tour and then this subsequent big records. So we went to smaller venues knowing that we were going to play a lot of the new record.

But it also, I mean, we play the hits as well, of course. Yeah. Like back when the Black Crows, there was a time, I can't believe there was a time where like, yeah, fuck it, we're not gonna play She Talks to Angels. You know what I mean? It's like.

It's almost only, only, you know, any time a band makes those decisions, it's sort of like, ah, fuck. So we're not gonna play the main song. We gotta listen to this one we don't know, you know, for an hour. You totally. So when you're, so you're gonna go. Totally. So you're going to go back out.

So we're going back out. We were supposed to be with Aerosmith, and we'd had a bunch of our own shows booked within the Aerosmith tour. And so now that that's not happening, we're going to go finish and get back to this. The other thing I was saying is we get to play. We have a few moments in the show

where we can play some really deep tracks. Yeah. And we have some moments where we can play, like, you know, we've been playing Chuck Berry songs. Which one? Well, we've been playing Carol. Yeah. And we've been playing.

You ever played Can't Catch Me? I haven't played that. I know that. That's a great song. We had a giant Chuck Berry cutout on the stage too. We've been playing, what's it, 40 Flight Rock. Oh yeah, yeah. We've been playing High School Confidential. We were playing some Bo Diddley songs.

Oh yeah? Like Josephine? Well, we were doing Road Runner. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it gives us a cool opportunity to play some covers that we haven't been doing and we, you know, just loosen it up a little and get the new songs in and our band is, we're having such a good time

and such a fucking- How's the crowds? Amazing, incredible. It's, you know what I mean? It's also incredible just to, and I know as well, like we'll always have our people. Some people have come and gone and they come back. And then they come with their kids.

Yeah, but I know, but also like now what we do, I really realize is like, you're not really seeing that. You know what I mean? Like we don't have any in-air monitors. We have guitars on stage. Sometimes, you know, I always think a great rock show should be like an old train in a cartoon. Yeah.

And then it goes over the cliff and the train rolls all over. And it goes back and then it goes, oh. Yeah, yeah. And that's the way it should feel. Yeah. You know, we don't, it's a little bit different every night. Well, it was great talking to you, man. Yeah, thanks.

Yeah, thanks for coming. Cheers, cheers. There you go. Thinks a lot about a lot of stuff that Chris Robinson. Again, you can go to blackcrows.com for tour dates and tickets and get happiness bastards wherever you get your music. out for a minute will you? Hey folks let your imagination soar by visiting audible.ca. Audible has the best

selection of audiobooks without exception along with popular podcasts and exclusive audible originals all in one easy app. Whether you listen to stories, motivation, expert advice, basically any genre you love, you can be inspired to imagine new worlds, new possibilities, new ways of thinking. Listening can lead to positive change in your mood, your habits, and ultimately your overall well-being. Enjoy Audible anytime while you're doing other things,

household chores, exercising, on the road, commuting, you name it. Audible makes it easy to be inspired and entertained as part of your everyday routine without needing to set aside extra time. You might want to check out some audiobooks by our recent guests like I Curse You With Joy by Tiffany Hanisch or Sonic Life by Thurston Moore. There's more to imagine when you listen. Sign up for a free 30-day Audible trial and your first audiobook is free. Visit audible.ca. This is an ad from BetterHelp. As kids, we were

always learning and growing. But at some point as adults, we tend to lose that sense of curiosity and excitement. Therapy can help you continue that journey because your back to school era can come at any age. And BetterHelp makes it easy to get started with affordable online therapy you can do from anywhere. Rediscover possibility with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelpH-E-L-P.com today to get 10% off your first month.

People, we have got a special bonus episode tomorrow for Full Maron subscribers, one that hasn't been part of any premium WTF subscription for a while. It's called Lorne Stories and it's a two hour compilation of stories from people who used to be on Saturday Night Live. I think he gives good advice, long-winded advice, but good advice. Like he's the kind of guy if you say, should I move, you know, should I buy a house? Yeah.

He's had this crazy life. I don't know, I like his advice, but. So does he give you advice about Parks and Rec? Has he? Yes. Oh yeah, in terms of your performance in general? Does he give you advice about Parks and Rec? Has he? Oh yeah? In terms of your performance in general? I don't think he really watches it, but you know. Like what did he say?

You know, that kind of thing that like, like Buddha-like people say, which is not really anything, but they end up saying nothing and you're like, yes, that's it. You know what I mean? But that thing of like, at the end of the day, it's you and that's what you need to remember. It's you there and you're doing your thing

and there is where you're supposed to be. And you're like, yes. And then you walk in like, wait, what the fuck are you talking about? I think it's just an approval thing in a way. I think it is. And also, he's had to, I have to say, having had the experience of up close at SNL, there's so many fires to put out and there's so many personalities and people with real, you know,

there's like the neuroses of the host and there's the cast and everybody. And he doesn't always get it right, but the, the history of personalities that he's had to manage is really, really interesting. And I think, um, he's really good at getting what he wants. Like it's just, it's fascinating to watch when

someone's like, I'm not going to do that sketch. He's like, no, I know you're not. And when you do it, it's just, it's fascinating to watch when someone's like, I'm not gonna do that sketch. And he's like, no, I know, you're not. And when you do it, it will be fine. And then he's like, no, I know, but I'm not gonna do it. And he's like, you're not doing it, nor should you. But I think when you find yourself doing it, you're going to, and then they end up doing it. It's amazing, he's incredibly persuasive.

To get the LaurenStories episode plus new bonus episodes twice a week and every WTF ad free, sign up by going to the link in the episode description or go to WTFpod.com and click on WTF+. Before we go, a reminder, this episode is sponsored by BetterHelp Online Therapy. As kids, we were always learning and growing,

but at some point as adults, we can lose that sense of curiosity and excitement. Therapy can help you continue that journey because your back to school era can come at any age, and BetterHelp makes it easy to get started with affordable online therapy you can do from anywhere. Rediscover possibility with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com to learn more and save 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P.com to learn more and save 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp.com.

And a reminder, this podcast is hosted by Acast, and here's some guitar featuring some of my favorite major chords. I'm gonna be a good boy. Boomer lives, Monkey and Lafonda, cat angels everywhere.