WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1575 - Jason Ritter

Episode Date: September 19, 2024

As a kid, Jason Ritter felt a lot of pressure as the son of a beloved actor who audiences felt like they knew personally. He didn’t feel pressure from his parents, but rather pressure from the world, believing he had to live up to being John Ritter’s son. Jason talks with Marc about how that insecurity, as well as his struggle to find his own identity, led directly to an acting career but also caused him mask his emotions with alcohol. They also talk about the limits of research, Matlock, and Jason’s wife Melanie Lynskey.  Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Sign up for your trial today at Noom.com. That's, that's N-O-O-M.com. Lock the gates! Alright, let's do this. How are you? What the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fuck? Nick's what's happening? I am Mark Marin. This is my podcast. Welcome to it. How are you feeling? I I feel better. All right, I told you on Monday that I must have been about two or three days into COVID. It's weird because I feel okay and my symptoms are okay, but when I did test positive, I was like, well, I'm calling the doc. I'm going to need some of that Paxlovid.

I got to get on like this, that old timey COVID panic. I just, you know, I didn't wanna like, oh my God. With the old protocols, it was like you just waited for sometimes, you know, 10 to 14 days until you tested clean, looking at that second line. Like, oh, it's just a hint, it's just, it's not, there's not hardly anything there, it's Like, oh, it's just a hint. There's not hardly anything there.

It's not, oh my God. I don't think I can take it anymore. But whatever the case, wherever we're at now, whatever I got, it's manageable. Like, I'm about, what, four days in? And it really didn't have much of a different impact than a kind of a bad cold or one of those unkind of identifiable cold, fluey things.

Like my fever never got too high, my lungs never got fucked up, I never got a sore throat, my head is thick with snot. It's thick, it's deep too. So I just tried to take care of myself But I did call you know to do that thing that sort of like good. Do you have the packs? Well, but yeah, I don't want to die Yeah, that's where that comes from that era

I think and the doc I talked to said look man, we're not well, she didn't say man But she said, you know packslova is not really up to date. It was designed for an older strain. Sometimes there are side effects that are kinda fucked up, diarrhea, nauseousness, maybe vomiting. I don't know, you know, the regular list of the side effects and that they really only use it for people who are You know immunocompromised or health compromised otherwise or older and she was like and I'm like, well, what do I do?

She's like well ride it out you pussy. She didn't say that last part Jason Ritter is on the show today now. I didn't know a ton about him. You know, I knew I knew who he was I knew he's the son of John Ritter is on the show today. Now, I didn't know a ton about him. You know, I knew who he was. I knew he was the son of John Ritter. I knew, oh, he is married to Melanie Linsky, who's been on the show before, and who I love. And people told me that he would be a good guy to talk to. But that's all I really had to go on.

But then I kinda learned a little more about him, and I'm like, all right, let's let's do it He's got some stuff It's hard to be the son of a dad who everyone loved Everyone and who passed away. It's difficult And you know, that's that's all I knew going into it and I really enjoyed that conversation. And now he and Melanie have different but matching WTF Brian Jones mugs. So look, I'm going to be in Tucson, Arizona at the Rialto Theater, that's tomorrow, Friday, September 20th.

I will be beyond the five-day isolation. I do think I'll feel okay for it. Then I'll be in Phoenix at the Orpheum Theater on Saturday. There'll be about six to seven hundred of us in a room that seats 1350. So that'll be intimate. It'll be nice. You know, it'll feel special. And then I'll be back here in LA at Largo on Thursday, October 3rd. And I'll probably be doing some Comedy Store spots here and there. I'm doing a benefit for Kamala this Sunday, I guess that would be the 22nd at the Comedy Store

Because I am a hundred percent behind Kamala Harris There you have it. Don't hit me with the like, but what about how she, I don't care. But what about where she stands? Doesn't matter. But don't you think you ought to think through the policy? No, I don't care. It's fascism we're fighting.

Look at the big picture. Whatever tool you need to fight the big F Let's do it Look, it's good to be back home and getting back to my routines and now a great part of my routine is Getting stuff from Hungry Root Hungry Root is the easiest way to eat healthy They send you fresh high quality groceries Along with simple delicious recipes and also essential supplements Hungry Root gets to know your personal health goals, dietary restrictions, favorite foods, how much time you want to spend cooking and more. Then they build you a personalized cart with all your grocery needs for the week, including

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use our link so they know we sent you. So you're asking yourself, so Mark, how did you spend your time with this COVID at home isolating, trying not to lose your mind? What did you do with that time, sir? Well, as there's some important stuff, as I told you, I told you on what day was it? Monday, you know, there's been things building. My bathroom drawers were full of shit that I didn't understand anymore. Attempts at things. You know, different nose hair trimmers. Stuff I didn't like. Tubes of stuff that I got on a trip to Europe at some point.

Vitamins from a foreign country. Many travel sizings that were half-emptied or repurposed. A whole different thing. Like just, I don't know, seem like a lifetime of garbage. And you know that moment you have where you're like, oh, I'm gonna fucking throw all this away. I mean, all of it. Like just stuff, like even if it's like technology,

even if it's stuff you plug in, you can throw shit away, You have to plug in fuck it Well, don't you want to give it a good? No, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna start sorting and hoarding and doing hoarding organizing for another place It was so great. I just threw so much shit away And now there's nothing there and I probably have to buy toothpaste, but whatever still Oh, there was a lot of little tubes of toothpaste of brands. I didn't even use I don't even know where they came from the dentist the road. I don't know I don't know but I never throw anything away and then I did and I feel I feel lighter

I feel kind of amazing. Yeah, it was pretty good. I put the guitars. I don't use in the closet I arranged my amps. I put the guitars I don't use in the closet. I arranged my amps I got out the the MXR clone looper, which I've had for like probably over a year I tried to do it once and I just did I'm just you know, it's stupid But I did I did I did figure it out. I followed some instructions I did a very basic attempt at some looping which you'll hear at the end of this episode And I got to be honest with you It was a pretty exciting thing to sort of get just a very basic two chord loop going and then for me to play lead

On top of me playing rhythm it kind of freed me up Because I generally don't get to play lead with any anything but records or guys who are better than me. So I just was able to lay down a kind of a mediocre rhythm and then play my mediocre lead riffs over it, trying to use my Mixolydian scales. Trying to use my major and Mixolydian scales. I'm not sure I know the difference. I think I was using them. It sounded kind of like Jerry-ish. I know the difference. I think I was using them. It sounded kind of kind of like Jerryish anyway that happened that was a long time coming so okay. I'm feeling better But like right now I feel like my voice isn't great. I finished

Wow brain fog Covid brain fog Holy shit. I'm in trouble. How am I gonna remember my material? How am I even gonna do anything if I can't fucking pull a name up? That out of my head You know from you that I knew this morning, right? Wow this morning, right? Wow. Anyway, I finished Kathleen Hannah's book. She's gonna, I'm gonna talk to her I think next week. I don't know when we're gonna put it up, but man, what a,

it's a great book. You know, I don't, you know, I read these biographies and I feel very close to the people after I read them. I don't know, it's, I was emotionally invested invested Where she's not that much younger than me? So a lot of the world that she was talking about artistically was anyway There's no reason for me to talk about that now when I could talk about it, you know before I talked to her Okay, have we had enough? I'm starting to sweat a little bit look Jason Ritter, he's on this new CBS show. It's a retread, is that how you say it? A redo.

What is it? Brain fog! They rebooted Matlock! Which was, uh, what's that guy's name Griffiths Andy Griffiths show when he was a hundred and it stars Kathy Bates Ridders in it it premieres this Sunday September 22nd I talked to Jason Ritter was a very nice and pretty deep and great guy, good conversation. And here we are doing that. Hey folks, let your imagination soar

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I'm watching so many fucking movies. God forbid I work on the on the part. I know I'm not that's always the Struggle is it am I doing it am I doing it enough? Am I the guy am I doing it? The question for me is always am I doing it enough or am I doing it too much? You know like it's a weird thing where I feel like I have to put it down at a certain point Otherwise, I'll overthink it. Oh, right, right, and then you're completely detached from the two minutes you have to do the acting. Yeah, exactly, exactly, exactly. But then I'm like, I can't work on it too much,

and then I go in and I can't remember my lines, and I'm like, I should have done it a little bit more. Oh, we should have done the lines, yeah. Oh my God, like now at this point, because I've been on this show like, what, two and a half months, like it gets to the point where you're like, am I even doing the guy anymore?

Am I even, is this the character? Yeah, yeah. That's the bothersome part about it. Are you having fun though? Is it, you like working on it or? Oh yeah, yeah, everybody's great. Seems like, yeah. You know, but like, you really, I mean,

you kind of want, the real thrill of it is if you have a scene where there's some meat to it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's not most of them. Right. A lot of times. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

You know, it's like, you know, we're doing a half a page, you just say like, I'm here, and you're like, ah, that's half the day. Yeah, exactly, yeah. Oh my gosh. But there are moments where that's just what I've been focusing on. Like, can I access, like, okay, make a decision

about this guy and how he acts, and then like when the emotional stuff happens, you know, and this is sort of a dramedy. Yeah. But like, I'm in there, I'm like, I'm going deep, man. I'm gonna fucking find this sadness. And now I'm wondering, like, am I gonna be the only guy doing that Yeah

Here he comes again Hey guys Wow Sad cranky guys really really really leaning into it. Oh It's kind of taking away the funny part. No, but yeah I think you you're so great at that like marrying those two worlds of comedy and drama Well, just having it have like a weight and having it have and feel having it feel like a real person And never you know, I don't know I you were so amazing in glow. I oh, thanks. Yeah. Yeah, that was good

You know and that there were some sad parts And I worked with your wife on that one episode of Easy. Yeah, yeah. That was some of the best acting I did, I think. She loved it. That was the one. And she was pregnant when she did that. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. There was a very funny moment in that

where she wasn't supposed to be pregnant. Yeah, exactly. And I said, so you're having another, that was like the first thing I said. She says, I'm not pregnant. Yeah, I know. It was like, cause she was like six months or something like that. And so I think you guys had a conversation where we're like,

we have to acknowledge something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then, yeah, it was a funny way to do that. I'm not pregnant. Yeah. Oh, oh, sorry. It was the worst. Like here I'm trying to like, you know, kind of take responsibility for whatever she's, you know,

for my improprieties. Yes, yeah. And that's the first thing I say. That's so perfect. What a great way to start off. Already awkward. We had that one day. It was great. It was good.

She loved that. That was so fun. How's she doing? She's doing great. Yeah. Yeah. She's working. Working.

Yeah. Oh my gosh. Are they doing more yellow jackets. Yeah, she's she's she's back right now But she's been going back and forth from Vancouver to do she's up there too. Yeah. Yeah, you guys should have a coffee We should yeah, I didn't know she was up there. Yeah, she going back up there She has a pretty good break. I think I know actually we're both gonna go up next week Oh, yeah, like going're both gonna go up next week. Oh. Yeah. Like maybe Wednesday. I'm going back up tomorrow. Oh cool, because for the most part, my daughter, our daughter's been in school and Melanie's been coming back and forth.

Yeah. And so for a month, the idea was that I was gonna be the one going back and forth, but then we were moving and all sorts of things. I see that's an actor's life. I don't even understand. Yeah, I was. I'm gonna wait for my cats for two weeks and I'm like,

are they okay? Yeah. Are they gonna remember me? it was really hard for Melanie Being this is the longest like she's been away. Oh, she would come back. I mean she would come back And we can eat like I would be like have a weekend you can yeah, don't make me crazy. Yeah Yeah, yeah, and she's like I Saturday morning to yeah for two days. Absolutely. Yeah It was so that's a normal thing for her. Yeah, I mean I thought I was being crazy like anytime. I go back I'm gonna come back absolutely. It's yeah, she you feel the

Emotional element you gotta reground yourself. Yeah exactly that's a huge part of it But wait, but that thing you did the matlock thing that was here, right? That's here. I'm still doing it. I'm almost done Oh, it's still in it. Yeah. Yeah, still going like we're I have three episodes from the end of the season it's interesting because I watch a pilot, you know, and it's a there is a world of Of like just old-school TV acting. Yeah. Yeah, you know, I can I don't because none of us, you know Are constant like it's, it used to be all there was.

Right, right. Was TV. Yeah, yeah. And then when you see TV, you're sort of like, wow, this is kind of old timey. Yeah, yeah, exactly. But a lot of people, certainly of a certain age, watch just TV, procedurals and whatnot, and it's sort of like a procedural, is it? Absolutely, yeah.

I mean, there's like a case of the week and I mean a case of the day Yeah, I guess it's a weekly television show But then there's also like a mystery that kind of yeah, right? Yeah Yeah, is it really based on because I can't remember Matt like I kind of I started yeah I checked out a couple episodes. Yeah, and it's Andy Griffith. Yeah, it's yeah Andy Griffith and the idea of it is cuz I was I was a Colombo guy That was the show that like were you alive for combo? We know watching repeats of it. I watch three pieces night or something or Well, Marianna Palka that you worked with on glow. Yeah sure. Yeah, yeah, she she and I

We went into a deep Colombo dive dive and we ended up getting all the you know DVD box sets oh you did yeah and just like we would find out there's a new movie or something and yeah and he's just Peter Falk is just so great but so that's great Matlock is a similar sort of idea yeah not a detective but a lawyer but people basically underestimate him that's the whole thing is he's just like what's this oh? Oh, I don't know what I'm doing. A country bumpkin who's smarter than everybody. Exactly.

And that's Kathy Bates. And that's Kathy Bates, yeah. How's she doing? She's great. I mean, she's like, you know, it's incredible to watch her stuff. Yeah, just cause it's like, I don't know. She's intense, man.

She is intense, yeah. And she, I mean, she has, she'll come in and I think part of the character is like, I don't know. She's intense, man. She is intense, yeah. She, I mean, she has, she'll come in and I think part of the character is like, oh, I'm just talking, just don't worry about me. So she has like monologue after monologue after monologue that she's just like rattling through. And it makes you, especially in the pilot,

there was like a couple scenes where she comes in, has like three pages of just talking and I have like my one line. I'm sitting there and I was like, don't, I just gotta sing it in there and don't mess it up. But it is, it is, it is weird being in a scene with someone that you hold so high. I know, it's crazy. It's crazy. You're just like, don't, it's hard to just be present and be in it and be like, oh, we're

both actors, we're peers in this moment. Right. Yeah. It's always hard to just be like, just don't mess it up. Let her, you know. Yeah, yeah. Listen. Just listen.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just be present. Stay engaged. Stop going outside of yourself and be like, oh, this is Kathy Bates. Yeah, yeah. Or you're sitting there, here comes. Here comes my time.

Oh my gosh. Especially when I have these one little lines that I throw on the scene. I'm like, that, that, especially when I have these one little lines that I throw in the scene, I'm like, okay, I got them all in order. I know with the, with the, like the lawyer lingo sometimes too, I'm just in my head saying those, the four word phrase that I like. Yeah, you have no idea what you mean. Yeah. I'm doing, my show's based on golf and I don't know anything about golf.

Oh my gosh, that's so funny. So I gotta do these sort of like, uh, he's gonna hit into the bunker, it should roll, and I'm like, I don't even know what this shit is. And so I gotta be like, so the bunker's a sand pit, right? That's a sand pit? Yeah. Oh my gosh, that's so funny. And then when I talk in golf lingo, but it's weird, I think once you appreciate the idea

of acting, like, you know, when you wanna be good at it, you're like, I should really, you know, know about this. I should be in it. Oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah, you know I got to do some research, and I did but ultimately you're pretending to know That's the thing yeah, I and if you can pretend well. It's all you're all set exactly and then yeah I'm gonna be like he really doesn't know what he's talking about. I know I Have a thing I have a thing where I like had to play like a hacker You know guys like really good at computers. And at first I started like looking into it and like what do, what do people do?

Like what are they pressing? What buttons are they pressing? And then I was just like, I'm gonna just do little circles with my hands on the computer. And if somebody is like, he's not really hacking, like I, you know, it's different than piano or something like that. I mean, just, yeah, I just basically. Guys who are gonna say he's not really hacking are like, who cares? Right. But still, but of course you're not.

Right, that's the thing. And the point is not like I'm getting it accurate. You know, it's not like, I think there's like a part of my brain that thinks of like Jeffrey Rush and Shine when he does, you know, Flight of the Bumblebees., these yes him and it's amazing like all the method II kind of stuff Yeah, like like pan from my hand like you're doing that to the actual actor right junkie interviews We're like well. You know I could have become a professional hacker. That's how deep I got into it

I actually was at home, and I hacked into the Pentagon and my god. I got this At least I can do the character now like actually, actually, I had three days between the time that I got the part. And we had, or whatever. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think this thing of like, hey, we're casting you as this part.

And you have six months to really prepare and get into. Yeah, yeah. No, you have a couple weeks, maybe. And then what do you do with the six months? And then you get there. And unless you're a certain type of actor, you're just sort of like kind of doing you anyways. Well, that's the thing.

And I also, I always like, I think there's a certain level of like, of confidence that, I always think about, you know, like Daniel Day-Lewis or somebody like that. And like, you know, that first day on set where, you know, like there will be blood or something like that, where like he's been in the woods for six months, and he's, like, talks like people talked back in the day or something, and then he shows up on set

and he goes, hello, my name is... And everyone's like, that, like, I couldn't do that. I feel, even if I really did work on it, and he's brilliant, obviously, but, like, I... There's a certain level of, like... Yeah, you just gotta accept it. I, there's a certain level of like... Yeah, you just gotta accept it. Yeah, he's, I, yeah.

There's like five actors that do that. Yeah, exactly. And then like, you know, and then there's another five that, you know, you think they're doing that, but they just kind of got a natural thing that you can't even explain. Yeah, exactly. And they just can lock in.

I don't know, I think about it a lot in terms of like how much you bring to it, but then like the weird thing is when you do work with big actors, you know, they're just people. Right, right. And they've got whatever tricks they've got, you know, to whatever they're doing.

Yes, exactly. It's just the services thing. And then it's, you know, it's done and you're like, all right. Yeah. Exactly, exactly. But when you grow up watching it, you're like, oh my God, it's done and you're like, all right. Yeah, exactly, exactly. But when you grow up watching it, you're like, oh my God, it's fucking amazing.

Like I did that one thing with De Niro and the Joker. Oh my God. And I was literally like watching him because I was on the set all week and he's doing this, he's playing that talk show host. And he has those lines, you know, and they're doing over and over again. And it's like totally demystifying De Niro to me

because I've watched him my whole life. I mean, obviously he's a great actor, but because they understand something, people who live their lives on camera and have been doing it that long, because I'm watching and I'm like, this is a disaster. How are they gonna cut this together? He can't fucking, it's like he's not even getting the lines.

But he knew, like he knew that it was all gonna cut up, right? They, yeah. You know, they're just sort of like, he's been on set so many times where he's just, he's gonna do it and do it and do it and they'll find one. Right, right, exactly. And he's kind of, yeah, yeah. And I don't like always seem to do that.

Like you can think like, well, let's shoot a series. I'll just do it over and over again. Like I'm working, Timothy Oliphant was, is on the set now. Oh, right. He's got a support role in this and he showed up and you know, he's doing the thing. And it's me and Owen and it's a big scene.

And it's like, we're about to leave or do something. It's transition. He's got like a little bit of a monologue. So like, we deal with the setup for it. And then he just keeps doing it over and over again without really telling us. So he just goes back into it. But I know what he's doing, cause it's his coverage.

Right, right. So like, fuck it. Yeah, yeah. Let's just keep going. Then as other actors, you're like, well, you're gonna be here to support him. Keep answering him. Keep... Yeah. The only time when it's complicated is when you're also on camera. Yeah. And then you're like, where are we going from?

Yeah. Okay, I, like, I, I'm sorry, you know. Yeah, I know, I know. Wait, wait, wait. Okay, okay, okay. Okay, let me get my face right. Yeah, but... The face. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Let me get my face right yeah, but the face The faces and gestures, but like for you like I mean like I was looking at Well your dad yeah, John Ritter was like one of the great funny guys on television But you well yeah, and and also you did some good movies, but he was like of a generation of actors

They like they just worked in television, and they were working all the fucking time Absolutely, there's this whole world of TV actors that you kind of know I mean his second wife Amy to with TV actor. Yeah. Yeah, and and and but they were like Omnipresent. Yeah, they were just always there. Yeah. Well, they're also were much lit much fewer channels I know it's kind of crazy though that there was this world of working actor that everybody knew Always there. Yeah, well there also were much fewer channels. It's kind of crazy though that there was this world of working actor that everybody knew. Yeah, yeah. Because we were all watching the same television shows.

Exactly. And also that was a time where it's like, you know, when you'd see them in a movie, you'd be like, what is he doing in that? Yeah, yeah, exactly. You know the character from TV. Yeah. And then when they made the jump to movie, you're like, oh, I don't know how this is gonna go. I know it's such a different world now.

There's much more fluidity between those two things. But there was really, and especially in that time, like either a television actor or a film. And television actors seemed much more accessible, I think. Yeah, because you see them all the time. Yeah, every week. Yeah, exactly. There they are.

Yeah. And you grew up in that. Yeah. Yeah. Do you remember being on the set of Three's Company? I remember having one of that. Not on Three's Company. I was born in the middle of that. So I-

So are you really young? I was born in 80. February 1980. So I think it finished in 83 or 84. So you're well into the Don Knotts period. Well, the first show, the version of Three's Company that I became aware of was with, yeah, Mr. Furley and Terry, Priscilla Barnes.

So it was funny to then go back and watch the other stuff. Watch the other stuff? Which they're all, and Suzanne Summers, and it was, all the iterations are really fun and great. Mr. Roper. Why am I spacing that actor's name? Norman Fell.

Oh, Fell. Norman Fell. And Audra Lindley as the, you know. Yeah, Norman Fell. Yeah. Do you remember him in The Graduate? I don't like you. Oh yeah, that's right.

He's so great. And do you know Richard Dreyfuss sticks his head in there, should I call the cops? Oh my God. It's got one line in it. That's so funny. I'll call the cops. Oh wow. I don't like you.

You could really have like a simmering anger at Norman Fell. But he was like that, he was one of those guys though like you know he did he started and doing a little bit of movies and he's like a TV guy. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And that was so funny that you go back and you see these these movies and you're like oh my gosh. Yeah he was a bit player.

Yeah. And then like he just got the gig. I think that was the thing is that you know people and I think it's still the same way only like a lot of people do work now that nobody gets to see ever. I know, that's the thing. It's hard to find. But people just wanna work. Right, exactly.

And the idea of nailing a series, it's rare now. Especially this year has gotten so crazy. What's going on with that, I don't know. I don't know, but it's like there's just not a lot of work. And I feel we're super lucky to be on the show. I know't know but it's it's uh Like there's just not a lot of work and I'm like, yeah, we're super lucky. I know There's so many people that just that's why I keep being told cuz like my instinct is always like I don't know if I want to Know but it's like, you know, every every guest star who comes in is like man, it's dead out there really Yeah, and I had a friend

Who's working on a lot, and he was saying like 70% of the lot is just empty, like not shooting. There's just, I think... In LA, certainly. Yeah, strikes and the, I think everything just... I know, it seems to... ...slowed it down.

Well, I think what the strikes proved was that, you know, the industry can figure out how to work around producing things. Right, yeah, exactly. Oh, they want more money? Fine. We're just not gonna give them any more work. You know the the industry can figure out how to work around producing things right? They want more money fine. We're just not gonna give him any more work. Yeah, it's not a retaliation It's just yeah, because in Vancouver. There's like a hundred things going on up there. I can't even know Melanie was up there Oh, yeah, yeah, my driver. Yeah, my driver said there's 60 productions going on like what the fuck in in LA. There's nothing Yeah, yeah, just empty weird ghost town studios yeah it's weird where'd you shoot the matlock a paramount oh yeah yeah what they just closed it though didn't they oh I just was reading something about yeah check if you got work to go back to I

yeah I don't know what that's about I mean I know that they are still working I'm going back on Monday so at least I I'm stage to work on. Yes, exactly I heard I thought they closed down something something something. Yeah, I mean there was a big merger You didn't get the memo. No, I did. Yeah. Oh, yeah You got to go to Vancouver that might work out for you. Yeah moves the production of Vancouver Yeah, that would be nice. You just move in with your wife exactly see her once Yeah Well, that was the other thing too

Like when I was looking at your resume and then your old man's resume just said like the guest star thing was fucking huge. Oh, yeah That's how everyone started absolutely he was like on the Waltons. Yep. Yeah, he was uh yeah He was the preacher on the Waltons and he just move him around yeah exactly. Oh there is some the cop show Mary Tyler Moore show was he yeah, yeah He had a Hawaii Five-O thing. With Jack Lord? Yeah, I think so. He was a hippie who has a drug dealer shootout or something.

He had a bit part on Mash where he held one of the guys hostage. Oh really? Yeah, yeah. That's amazing. But yeah, that's the same with me. I was in New York and like Law and Order was the thing that was employing everybody, you know. Yeah, so what was your arc?

Were you grew up here? I grew up here, yeah. And I didn't realize you kind of come from a show business family in a way. Not just your dad, but your grandfather was some kind of a country singer. Singing cowboy, yeah. And America's most beloved cowboy was like the.

Is that his thing? That was his thing, yeah. But you didn't know that guy. No,'s most beloved cowboy was like the... Is that his thing? That was his thing. But you didn't know that guy? No, he died before I was born. But I, you know, it was kind of incredible to see- But did your dad have the records and stuff? Oh yeah, and we saw his movies and you know, like you can hear, yeah.

And your grandmother too? And my grandmother too, yeah. They met on a movie called Rainbow Over the Range where she was the librarian and he was, you know, she was an actor and... So they were in that studio system, like in, like... Like Hail Caesar. Yeah, exactly. It's exactly like that.

And they were just cranking out, they were just going to the San Fernando Valley and just cranking out westerns. Is that crazy? My dad would go up to his dad and say, oh, I saw, you know, mystery of the masked bandit or whatever the text would be like, which one was that? Like they just, he was just showing up and they were,

like, if you look at the IMDB in like the late thirties, you're like, how did you cram that many movies into one year? Like they were just- Yeah, they were just churning them out. Yeah, yeah. And all we know are the ones that get, you know, critically acclaimed. And there's like a 200 other ones. Oh him out. Yeah, yeah. And all we know are the ones that get critically acclaimed. And there's like 200 other ones.

Oh my gosh. Yeah, exactly. And like, you know, Cranston comes from that too. His dad was like, you know, these guys who kind of grow up in knowing that studio system, it's just these kind of utilitarian, like, actors, a job. 100%. A job.

We're doing the job. Yeah, exactly. And he's got a real working man kind of sensibility around it. And it was only like, you know, the entire invention and industry was only like Pretty young. 20 years old or whatever.

Yep, yep. You know, so it wasn't like, Yeah. You know, when he was born, it was like, that was probably when they were first doing movies. So the idea that he had this dream. Who, your grandfather? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. In East Texas and was like, that was probably when they were first doing movies. So the idea that he had this dream. Your grandfather?

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. In East Texas and was like, I'm gonna move to New York and see if I can, you know. He went to New York? He went to New York and that's where he got his nickname Tex, because he was, his accent. He had a hat. His hat and his accent. But yeah, he was like out in New York eating ketchup. That was like some of his, you know. Oh, that was the thing, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, he was. out in New York eating ketchup. That was like some of his- Oh, that was the thing, right?

Yeah, yeah. Making the soup with the ketchup. Yeah, well just, yeah. He was, he just had, he had a huge family. And he just, but he had this dream and went for it. So your dad grew up in the studio a lot? Yeah, kind of. He was out here in Studio City, Toluga Lake he grew up in.

Wild, and then so then you did too. And then, yeah, and then I did too. You grew up just around the TV studio. Yeah, kind of. I mean, I'm the oldest. I'm the oldest, yeah. And you got what, two brothers? I got three brothers and a sister.

Yeah. I mean, I'm the oldest and then my sister and my brother with my mom, and my other brother from Amy. Your half brother. Yeah. Yeah, wild. I met Amy recently. Yeah, yeah.

At a, I think it was at Sarah Silverman's party. Yeah, they're close. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's a character, she's fun. She is fun, yeah, she's very funny. So when do you decide, like, yeah. She's a character. She's fun. She is fun. Yeah, she's very funny. So, so when do you decide, like, I mean, like, you know, growing up around it like that, and he was a big star, right?

I mean, like, he was, I mean, it was, yeah, I mean, he... A totally recognizable person. That's when they had, like, all the, you know, the TV shows that had all the stars hanging around. Yeah, exactly. And all that stuff. It was a different hero. Yeah, he, he, yeah, yeah, I mean, he would get recognized all the time and, you know, and it was funny too

because he had this weird habit of like, if we were in a public place, he would always just be kind of walking faster than, like, it would be like him maybe, same pace, but him maybe like 10 feet or so ahead of us, and that's all kind of falling. And so you would see this like wake of people kind of like turning, recognizing him.

And he just was, that was part of the thing. He just wanted to like keep moving and, yeah, oh yeah. But it was, it was, it was, it was fun. I mean he he always He always was trying to entertain us as much as possible throughout all of those. Oh, yeah Oh anytime, you know, sometimes people would be a Little mean or things like that or oh really or in or slightly insensitive or things like that

Yeah, he just was you know, he well been really half as much of an ego about it. Yeah. And so they, you know, it's just that there's that fine line between, hey, hey, John Ritter. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and then it's like, yeah, and if you just say, yeah, thank you, and he started to move on, like, hey, what the fuck? Yeah, exactly.

That guy, it's like, dude, what do I owe you? Yeah, that's the complicated element. Or, you know, they'd be like, I thought you'd be a good guy. Yeah, that's that's the complicated. Yeah. Yeah, or you know, they'd be like I thought you'd be a good guy. Yeah Yeah, or like what was I remember this one lady took his glasses off his face one I knew it was you and he's like, oh can I oh my god, just no boundaries Yeah, he's gained some weight things like oh my god. Thank you. Um, are you still acting? And he would go no I have I have a potato farm up in,

he just wouldn't make stuff up. Oh, he did? Oh yeah, because there was no part of him, he was very humble. You know, like he, there was no part of him that was like, let me prove to this stranger that I've, you know, he never stopped working, he always was doing something here and there.

Sure, but they only know him from the one thing. Yeah, exactly. So he's not gonna be like actually yes, I'm working on this. He was just like no Yeah, I retired so we basically we raised lambs. Yeah, yeah, and then we we slaughter them as soon as they become sheep, but You know, it was you just make up all these weird things and Did it have like do you remember having an impact on him when the show stopped? No, I mean, I... You're too young? I, no, yeah, I mean, he, to me it seemed like

he was always doing something. Oh yeah, because, yeah, he was. After, you know, after Three's Company, there was, I mean, Three's a Crowd didn't go long, but then he was doing Hooperman, and you know, all, and then movies, and Hooperman and all. Oh yeah, Hooperman. And then movies and just, he loved working. He was like the workaholic and just loved that so much.

And so. When do you decide that like this is the thing? I kind of, I mean, I like doing it in elementary school and I initially was like, I think, yeah, I think I wanna do this. Where'd you go to the school? I went to Crossroads in Santa Monica. Oh my God. I know, I loved it, it was really,

I've only talked to a few people, and I've read about Crossroads. You know, it's not controversial, but it's a very specific thing, isn't it? It is a very specific thing. Like there's a lot of kids of industry people there, and it's kind of- For sure. And it's kind of like a very specific thing. Like there's a lot of kids of industry people there and it's kind of like a very loose curriculum. Does it still exist? Oh yeah, it still exists.

You know, I think initially it gets a certain reputation, there are certain things about it. Like what is it exactly? Like it's for privileged offspring of actors? Yeah, that's for sure part of the thing. Who was in your class? Oh boy. Whose kids?

Were there people? Oh yeah, there were lots of, I mean, oh gosh. I don't even, it's... Are you sworn to secrecy? Yeah, we're not allowed to talk about it. No, but it was funny because you'd see a movie on the weekend and you'd say like, oh man, that was awful. And they'd be like, oh, my dad wrote that. And you're like, oh shit, sorry. The writing actually was great, but it just was the rest of it.

I remember saying that the writing was good. Yeah, didn't we just say the writing was great? That was one good thing about it. They really took that script and ruined it. I mean, just the writing was great. That was one good thing about it. They really took that script and ruined it. But yeah, no, it was, but also it's the kind of thing where it's like, you know, it's a private school, so it's an expensive school, and then you have,

and then it's a, this is like, it's sort of a industry town. So it's like, if you had, you know, that's why it sort of ends up there. And there are some freedoms about it and things like that, but then there are also like, I don't know, I really loved it.

A lot of the things that it gets made fun of for, I greatly enjoyed. You know, there's a class where we like passed around a stick and we talked about our feelings and stuff like that. And that gets made fun of a lot. But then it also forced like 14 and 15 year olds to be like, here's, I guess this is what's going on

inside my heart and brain. So what were you learning about yourself then? I think it was just learning how to like, like forcing you to talk about, forcing you to articulate what you were thinking about and feeling and- What was the hardest part about having a dad as a major celebrity?

I think it was probably figuring out my own identity. I think there was like, there was always a lot of context and. But you're, oh, he's John Reuters' kid. Yeah, exactly, and then that's all, that's sort of who I was. And so there would be times if I was like at camp or at a new school where I,

I never would like tell anybody, but there would be a time where someone would like put it together and I would never lie about it. So someone asked me, I would say, yeah, yeah. And then I would notice that some people would be like much nicer to me after they found out and I would say, yeah, yeah. And then I would notice that some people would be like much nicer to me after they found out. And I would always feel like, oh,

that creeps me out. Yeah, it's got nothing to do with me. You know, and that was sort of a strange thing to navigate in terms of like, are you liking me? You know, it was just a strange thing to, to, to. Yeah, it's almost like you don't, you know, there's no way to determine whether or not you have a self in the world.

Yeah, exactly. And the self kind of disappears as soon as people learn this one fact about you. And you're like, oh, that, okay, so you were not so nice to me, which is fine, but now all of a sudden, it always just made, it made my, the friends that I knew were my real friends feel like that much more authentic and lovely

because they, we had created a thing just on ourselves and then they found out, oh, cool. Or, oh, I don't know who that, or whatever it is. Well, yeah, but it's interesting because there is this two sides to this parasocial out, oh, cool, or whatever it is. Well, yeah, it's interesting because there is this two sides to this parasocial dynamic, right, in the terms of like, people know they have a relationship with your dad, that's not real, right, it's based on this character and familiarity, and also celebrity,

but they feel like they, you know, so you just represent some extension of him. Exactly. And they're just sort of like, oh my God, I can't believe I'm just talking, cause your dad's that guy, and then you're just lost in it. Oh yeah, exactly.

And then it also, and then it became also a bit complicated in the like, during the divorce times where I had, was having complicated feelings, and people were like, I love your dad. And I was like, yeah, I know he's great. But I'm, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I felt scary to even say like, I'm a little hurt. You know, like I, I was like, I'm not, that's.

I'm not so good with him right now, but I get, I'm happy you like him. Yeah. I mean, I, I always loved him. He was always so sweet, but it's just that he, he had created so much goodwill towards him and love towards him that some of my hurt feelings, I was like, these have to be mine privately. Because I also didn't want to ruin anybody or take them.

Idea of him. Yeah, yeah. And I enjoyed and appreciated all of that. People's love for him. Yeah, exactly. But your private life and your relationship with what was going on, it wasn't public. Yeah, exactly.

And I think that, well now, that was also a different time, man. Because now everyone knows everything about everybody. And there's like a hundred stories. There's just people on the edge of their seats wondering about, you know, Ben and Jennifer and like, well, yeah, there's no way everyone's speculating. There's so much bullshit out there,

but at least at the time you were growing up, it was still able to be relatively private. Yeah. I mean, in that time, it feels like, I don't know, in that world, if there was some like scandal or something, it'd be like, there's a National Enquirer article coming out, so just wait for a month. Right. And then there's no chat rooms, it doesn't keep the conversation going. Maybe Entertainment Tonight, when they started doing that show.

One story, and then it's kind of they all move on to the next. Now it's like a month's worth of news. And everybody weighing in and detectives and all this stuff. So when you're growing up, are there... Cause I always wonder, did you know Don Knotts? I met Don Knotts and I loved Don Knotts. But I didn't, yeah, I didn't really like by the time. Yeah, by the time I was sort of a little sentient person,

I hadn't seen him. Did your dad hang out with actors? Uh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, sometimes. I mean, you know, who he was working with. Or, um, but his closest friends, the ones that I saw the most, were like, uh, one of his friends from high school

and the rest from college. Like, they just were always. Right, well that's sort of like you're talking about. Like you build the real relationships and they're the ones that kind of stay around. Yeah, I mean it's funny too because there are so many things. I'll go back and I'll find some article

about like when my dad was first starting out and reading him answering these questions about his dad and all of these things. There's all these weird sort of. When he was a kid? Yeah, yeah, or when he was like in the Waltons or whatever. Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, right. Like people magazine kind of stuff?

Yeah, exactly. And sort of the remembering that he also existed within a context of. The shadow of a famous father. Yeah, and it's funny too, because there was a woman that came up to me a couple years ago and was like, you were at a restaurant in 1982, and you were a nightmare.

I was like, oh my, and that's the weird kind of context of like, you would never remember... Because you were with your dad? like, you would never remember. Yeah, you would never remember my bad behavior as a two. If I was just a, like a screaming, running around two year old in a restaurant, you wouldn't remember, but the fact that because it was my dad, you've carried around for 40 years

that he had a bad son one day. You know, an obnoxious infant. An obnoxious infant. Yeah, exactly. And that's you. And that's me. And she felt like she. And I brought shame on my dad and she must've thought he was a terrible father.

Oh my God. Or she didn't say any of that stuff. But that kind of thing where people will remember things or there's always a sense that if I really messed up, I could bring shame onto the family name. Onto the family name, onto your nice dad? Yeah, yeah, and my grandpa, and just sort of tank the whole... Yeah, this third generation of Ritter really fucking sunk the family name.

Exactly! This kid, he had it all going for him. Exactly. But he had to act like a regular kid and ruin it. Exactly. So you were aware of that possibility of shame? Especially, oh yeah, especially like as a teenager or something like that, you know.

So that's wild because like it's not, it's a different thing. You know, like if your dad was like, I think it has to do with movie actors versus TV actors, is that you had a whole generation or two of people that, you know, had a weekly relationship with this guy. Right. So they just, they knew him like he was

part of their family. Well, and also he had created in the TV world and in the real world, so much goodwill and being so kind to people. And I still get stories of like, he did this nice thing for me. He didn't know me, but I was at a Starbucks and he, I don't know, did something nice. So you gotta be careful, even if you're mad at your dad

over something that happened that day, who you're talking about. Like you can't be like that fucking asshole, he took my thing away. That's ungrateful. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cause then somehow or another would trickle into oh yeah yeah exactly house crossroads yeah yeah and I mean you know I definitely I'm not complaining about any of it but it was it was interesting

you ever talked to him about it oh yeah I talked to him a lot about it. And he had a very, I think because he watched his dad go through all of this, he was able to sort of avoid a lot of the kind of the pitfalls of, I think that was what kept him sort of humble and just sort of like, or he would always say like, we're so lucky, you know? Yeah.

And just this sense of, as opposed to some people who have a certain level of success and they're like, it's because I'm the best. Right. You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Even though I think he was so brilliant and Well, that's pretty undeniable, yeah.

But there was this understanding in the sense of like there are incredibly talented Amazing people. Yeah, just don't sure get the don't catch the break. Yeah, yeah, just don't get the break. Yeah so Yeah, so he was he was very much like well, you know, I talked to people about that a lot You know and certainly because there's been kind of this framing of, of nepotism, nepo babies and all that.

But I still, you know, there's some part of it that seems just ingenuous to me in terms of the critique of it, because like, look, man, if you grow up in the world, how are you not going to think that like, I want to get a job in this world? Yeah, I mean, I think, I think that that conversation has been so interesting that, like, I wanna get a job in this world. Yeah, I mean, I think that conversation has been so interesting, and I see a lot of people who have benefited from nepotism really pushing back, because I think one of the things that scares them about the whole conversation is, like, this idea that their accomplishments or their talent

is being taken away from them or something like that. Right, they're not talented at all. You gotta be able to do the job after a certain point. It's not like there's that much goodwill in show business that like, you know, this kid sucks. Let him keep ruining project after project. He's a Ridders kid, what are we gonna do? Give him the supporting roles, do what happens.

We loved his dad. But I think by being so scared of having that What are we gonna do? Give them the supporting roles, see what happens. We loved his death. But I think by being so scared of having that taken away from them, they're not acknowledging the privilege. That part of like, oh sure, it got me in the door, but I couldn't. But they're skipping over that part, which is like, that is a big thing. There are so many people who like, that's the hardest part is that first part.

And so yes, you don't get to continue to ruin projects. And there are a lot of children who have a really tough time, like breaking into the same business or they get a chance and then that's it. But I feel like there was a lot of, when I was reading some of the responses, there was a lot of like, well, no, I'm, you know,

I mean, I think it's a thing that a lot of people want, everyone wants to feel like they worked hard and they earned what they have done. But also it's like a very small percentage of people. Mm-hmm. You know, and the ones that don't get flack are ones who end up behind the cameras or in production roles or whatever.

Right, right. And that's just business. Well, and it's just like, it's your business. So your dad's a producer and you know, you're gonna go work in the office and it's like, yeah, I'm gonna do this. Well, it is funny how it seems to be focused on this industry where like, yeah, I'm gonna do this. Well, it is funny how it seems to be focused on this industry where, like, it feels like

I would be more concerned about it in, like, politics or banking or, you know, or doctors or... Yeah. I mean, it doesn't happen. I mean, like, look at R.F.K. Jr. Right, exactly. What a train wreck of a Kennedy that is.

Oh my gosh. But I don't know, I'm not... People just assume, like, he's a Kennedy. They don't go my gosh. But I don't know, I'm not... No, that's strange. People just assume like he's a Kennedy. They don't go like this fucking Neppo baby. Right, exactly. It's a strange thing that's... I imagine some people are doing that.

That's focused on sort of this entertainment industry. Yeah, because it kind of plays into the Hollywood entitlement, you know, battle thing. For sure, for sure. And there is a lot of entitlement. Sure, sure. And then there's the other side of it, which is like, it's not fair. And that's the thing that I think the people who have benefited are not,

are too scared to admit. Right. They're actually, it is like a little bit not fair. And I remember having like these conversations with my dad, because I was very aware of that. And that idea, even before like that whole thing was a term, the idea of like getting apart, everybody knowing, especially when I wasn't so confident

in my own abilities at the start, getting apart and everyone on the set going, well, we know how we got that. And if I was terrible on top of that, so when I was first starting out, I was really determined to either, like, succeed or fail on my own terms and not accept anything.

And then, even though there's, even if you do that, there still is an element of, you know, help that it gets. Like, even just going into an audition and people being like, oh, he was so nice. That helps me a little bit. Yeah, of course. Even helps me not be as nervous. But I remember, like, my dad was like, yeah, like, he was so nice. You know, that helps me a little bit. It even helps me not be as nervous. But I remember, like, my dad was like,

yeah, okay, absolutely. And then- When you wanted to act? Yeah, yeah. And when I, you know, but I got like a law and order or something, he's like, okay, great. You wanna be in this movie with me? And I was like, no, still no, not yet.

And like, I mean, I didn't realize that there was a limited amount of time, you know, to do that, but I, it still was such an embarrassing thing to me to think of being somewhere that I hadn't at least earned. Yeah, yeah, and just being that guy. Like, you know, I watched all the 80s movies. I saw all the like rich kid camps and all of the like, know, they and you're like, oh, these are the bad guys

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I I really tried to kind of avoid that as much as possible and Also people get cast and things that they're just not ready for sure Oh, yeah, and then they embarrass themselves and then that's the end of their career because they haven't Because they took the shot They took the shot. They took the shot. They felt like they had to. Yeah. I was fortunate that I was never really afforded the shot.

And I just had to scrape and be persistent and figure out a way around that. Right. And get good enough to like forge your own... I'm still not really that confident about it, but there was not the, I did it the old fashioned way, by just complete persistence and anger. Yes, exactly. And then somehow making a life out of my garage.

Exactly, it's pretty incredible. Yeah, believe me, I thought it was over. But the layers of insecurity. For sure. That you're dealing with, you know, first being protective of your dad's reputation just in life. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And having to kind of suck all that up. And then, you know, not knowing who you were because you were always identified as, you know, you know, Ridders kid.

And then deciding, that's always a big decision. Like the one that stands out in my mind, more than other things for some reason is like, you know, Jacob Dillon. Yeah, yeah, yeah. See, a lot of things you can do, dude. Yeah, oh yeah. You're gonna pick up guitar?

I know. I mean, it's like, oh my God. Yeah. I mean, like, and he's great. He is great, he's totally great. And he's an intense guy and he's a good guy and I like his music, but I mean, like, the... And he's great. He is great. He's totally great. And he's an intense guy, and he's a good guy, and I like his music, but... I mean, just...

the idea of, like, you know, I'm just gonna step into that shadow. Inviting, yeah. All the comparisons, all of the... Yeah. I remember the first time I did a... I mean, the only time I did a sitcom. Uh... Because I felt like I had somewhat sidestepped I mean, the only time I did a sitcom,

because I felt like I had somewhat sidestepped some of the direct comparisons and earlier stuff. I ended up thinking comedy auditions, I was so nervous that I was just literally shaking that I didn't get a lot of those parts initially, so I ended up getting the more serious stuff. But then when I did a sitcom, it was like all my insecurities just piled on. And it was actually only a couple of years

after he had passed. And I remember, which show was that? It was called The Class. And there was a lot of incredible actors on it and people who've gone on to do so many amazing things. But how long did that run? One season.

Okay. Or not even one season. 19 episodes, I think. That's also the benefit of some of these things. It's like, yeah, I never saw that. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, no, we watch it and we take it apart. What went wrong?

But I remember in the first press tour or whatever, the questions were so intense. And... In relation to your dad? Yeah, and I think it was also because I still was sort of coping with the loss and things like that. And then ping ponging back and forth between like, are you having fun on set?

And do you miss your dad? Yeah, oh yeah. Yes, yes I do. Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course having fun on set? And do you miss your dad? You're like, yes, yes, I do. Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. What's the, what do you, what? And so in that first press tour, I, there was like an open bar situation, and I kept on getting, you know,

just getting more and more and more. And I, and then like the next day, when I woke up, the next like week I was like Googling like my name, Tronk, yeah like what, you know, embarrassment. And I never saw anything so, but it was, you know. You handled it. Well, yeah, I mean, it only took me 10 more years

to stop drinking. Was that your thing? Oh yeah, yeah. I think like there was a lot of my insecure, I was kind of tight in certain ways. I felt like I had to sort of behave or do this thing. And so alcohol was my way to get out of my insecurities. And then I just, I took it too far.

Well, the insecurities though, what's interesting is the evolution of the, you know, the layers of insecurity, because, you know, you spend your life in the shadow of your dad and being sort of an appendage publicly, and then, you know, you gotta keep all that shit to yourself, and then, you know, just by virtue of that, you don't really get to develop a sense of self.

And then all of a sudden, now you're taking these opportunities and now you're comparing yourself to other actors who have a harder time of it and your own talent and wondering if that's real. A hundred percent. Are you taking parts that play to your insecurities? Absolutely. I mean, I think like, I think, you know,

the hardest thing for, like, the hardest auditions for me were the sort of confident, you know, like leading guy, you know, like I was like, I don't quite know how to do this. But you give me like a guy who's insecure, who's looking at other men or peers, you know, guys for like how to be a man or how to be a person. Like, absolutely. who's insecure, who's looking at other men or peers, guys for how to be a man or how to be a person. Absolutely, I like the best friend. I can method that shit.

Yeah, for sure. And yeah, I mean, I- Well, that's interesting though, because that's not a bad approach. Because if you have the fundamental talent to be present, to act, to have a wheelhouse isn't bad, but when it's indicative of your bigger problems in terms of being a person, it seems like it could exacerbate the situation.

I mean, 100%. Every once in a while, I would fool someone and audition into thinking that I was a confident guy and get the part and then just the whole movie or whatever, I'd be like, how did I do that? Why did I do this? This is not how.

But were you able to step up though and do the acting? I hope so. I mean, I gave it my best and I tried. What was that role? Were you first remember that? That role was, the first time I remember that happened was this movie called The Education of Charlie Banks. Yeah.

And it's basically I play this like, it's going to sound silly when I say it, but I basically play like a New York tough. Yeah. Like a very violent guy who, like hates rich people and will beat them up to like level the playing field. And there was a lot that I understood about that.

Like I- You had anger. I had a lot of anger. I also have a lot of like, like over the top feelings about entitlement and, and rich people, you know? Like there's a certain thing that does drive me crazy. So there's a lot about that character that I understood. And then there's also the self-hatred component.

And the self-hatred component. Yeah, there's a huge part of that. And the only thing was like, violence is like my last resort to solve a problem. But I've also met a couple guys whose it's like number three. Yeah. You know, so I, you know, so I had to sort of figure that stuff out. But it was fun.

But that's like a good acting exercise. It was great. I had a really great time and I met a lot of amazing actors. And I am proud of that movie. But it is bizarre. I feel like sometimes I see it and I'll see like a clip. And I'll be like, I can't really remember what I was doing. It's interesting when you have to,

and I don't like, you've done a lot of stuff and and like There's sometimes where I'm cast In the few things that I've been in where I don't understand why they cast me You know where it's sort of like there's like a million character. You know get a guy. That's like this. Yeah. Yeah You know and I'll talk I'll try to talk my way out of doing it I yeah, I've done that. You know, where it's like, I don't know what, and then all of a sudden, if they're good at making the, whether it's the casting director or the director,

of like convincing you that they want you. Right, exactly. Agents, you can't rely on for that. But if you, because they're like, we gotta get the, it's like, it's a job. Just anything. Yeah, yeah. So, but if the director kind of sits you down and goes,

no, it's essentially the shame that we're looking for. I'm like, oh, oh, let's say you do know me. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, that I really love is when you- They get you. Yeah, and they're saying, no, you don't have to put on a thing. Right.

We know what you can do, and there's an element of your personality or what you bring to a part that we want for this. Yeah, and then you're like, okay, I believe you. Yeah, I have. I'll do it. Yeah. That sort of happened in this movie that I'm also really proud of called The Tale,

which is a super dark but beautiful movie. What was the story on that one? The story, it's a true story of the- So that's pretty recently. Yeah, pretty recently. Jennifer Fox wrote and directed it, and she was a documentary filmmaker, but this is her first narrative film.

And it was essentially about the adult man who groomed her when she was a child and her kind of realizing, going through that thing of realizing, oh, this wasn't like my first boyfriend and I wasn't just mature for my age, I was a child and he was a sick person. But the fact that she realized that in her 40s, I think, part of the grooming was that he,

I guess they wanted someone who felt like warm and kind and loving and that it was a very, even though there was all sorts of manipulation and sickness going on, that in the moment, to this little girl, it could feel like, oh, we're in a relationship, and the world wouldn't understand. But, um, so that was really scary.

A dark part. That was super dark. Yeah. And you felt like you got in there? To a certain extent. There was a lot of, you know, I was really mainly concerned, everyone was really mainly concerned about like how we were going to do this and shoot it and not. I basically spent most of my thoughts and time trying to sort of protect this little actress

who was playing Jennifer when she was a kid. Yeah. And so I just tried to like make jokes and I was like a, you know, like basically goofy uncle energy. Off when you're not shooting. Yeah, so she felt comfortable and she didn't feel like, you know, and none of the weird, there was body doubles

for all of the very creepy stuff. I didn't have to say anything weird to her or anything like that. We cut it all up. But you took a chance on the part. Yeah, and it only really hit me one time where we were just sort of running lines with her. Her and her mom, we were just doing the scene

and she just was sitting there and she was like 11 or something like that. And all of a sudden, she was a little cold and so she was just, and all of a sudden I just saw how small she was, and the reality of the whole situation crashed down on me. I had to go into the other room and just sort of cry for a little bit.

But for the most part, I was able to just kind of trust the whole, the director director and other actors. And also, I guess, to sort of play it without that awareness. Yes, exactly. Just to be like, I'm just, as long as she's having fun and she feels safe, you know, and it ends up, you know, with when it's all cut together,

it ends up being what it's supposed to be, which is this sort of awful thing where of course a child wouldn't recognize that's what's going on is abuse. Yeah. And I guess that character probably didn't either, really. Yeah. I mean, yeah. He had had, he created his own worldview that like this was normal and you know, like, well,

another country, whatever, and all that stuff. Sure, yeah, yeah. And, but I also felt like it was important because I feel like there's so many, you know, I mean, people who do that to children are monsters, but there's not a lot of understanding of like the manipulation and the confusion. How it plays out. Yeah, yeah, and so it felt like I wanted to show that, you know, I wanted to be part of showing that part.

How interesting, how was that received? It was received pretty wanted to show that, I wanted to be part of showing that part. How was that received? It was received pretty well. I mean, and people really felt like seen by it. I think there were a lot of people that came up afterwards. And then like maybe a year ago, there was a moment where people were circulating the worst clip on Twitter. And obviously people who hadn't seen the movie

and were just going, they're trying to normalize pedophilia, Hollywood, all this stuff. And I was like, oh my gosh, this is my absolute nightmare. And it's also, yeah, like I said, it's the worst scene in the movie, the one that would just make me like, I'd have to like scrunch down in my seat and just sweat. Yeah, yeah.

And just wait for it to be done. How long did that go on for? It went on for a couple weeks. And there was a time where it was frustrating because I wanted to be like, see the whole movie. See, yeah, and also like, what creep fast forwarded to this scene? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because that's the only way you wouldn't, you wouldn't like know what the thing is. Totally out of context. Yeah, yeah, so somebody, whoever pulled that out, was fast-forwarding to the creepy scenes in that movie, which is even creepier than anything. Yeah. Well, that's a lot to deal with. Yeah, but that was, it was just weird to be like,

you know, have all these people again, like your father would be turning in your grave. Like, yeah, if I was trying to normalize pedophilia, yes, my father would be upset with me, but... This is a story about a woman who's trying to, you know, bring, shed light on the... Yes, exactly. ...this subtle horror of the process.

Exactly, and it was such a beautiful and subtle script that walked a tightrope really well. I'm sorry, yeah, go through that. Yeah, it was just, it was weird to just see this, this like misguided hatred, you know, coming right at me. Well, it was weird to just see this misguided hatred. Yeah, oh yeah. Coming right at me. Well, it was intentional guided hatred.

Yeah, that's true, that's true. Misguided, guided. Yeah. But I mean, do you feel that, so that was just 2018, and you've done so much stuff, so you feel like you're kind of, it's good to feel like you're still evolving as an actor and also taking those chances.

Absolutely. And when you were drinking, when did that start? That started when I was in high school. I mean, that was like, my friends and I were the little like long haired, kind of crazy guys. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, partiers. Yeah, I mean, not really out in the world, but like in our little bubble, you know,

like four of us, you know, getting in the liquor cabinet and stuff like that. And it just kind of never went away? And it never, I mean, like I think I, I think I threw up or got really sick, maybe like my second time. Like there were a lot of like warning signs. Yeah, I was a puker too.

Oh gosh, so many, it's just so many parties ended up with me in the bathroom again. Me too. And I always thought it was because I didn't really like beer and it was too filling, so I'd drink hard liquor and I'd be fucked. Yeah, I tried so many different titles. The reason it happened for the 90th time was because I just,

I did it out of order or whatever it was. Like I just, I made so many excuses, but I'm coming up on 11 years with no alcohol. Wow, that's great, man. Thanks. It's a big deal. It is a big deal. And yeah, and I think what I never really understood about it was that in, like, after a couple years

of not drinking, I realized that there were certain elements of myself that I just believed to be absolutely true flaws that will never get fixed or something or a certain level of out of control that just cutting out alcohol and also doing some work on myself and stuff, I was like, oh, maybe that's not true. Maybe that was-

You could see it. Yeah, or there was a seed of that there that is exacerbated by alcohol, but without the alcohol, it stays a little seed or something. Like I can control it or I'm not just like floating along the tide of the world. Did you do your recovery guy? Yeah.

So like you were able to do the work and sort out through the steps, like the character defects and your side of things. Yes, exactly. And then you get that brilliant kind of profile of which of those character defects are driving you. Yeah. And then you have sort of a map to do the other work, you know, in therapy or whatever.

Right, right, exactly. And kind of like put it together like where it came from. Oh, yeah. Which is just so fascinating, because it's, you're sort of like your own little puzzle or like escape room where you're like, oh, that's the code that I needed for this lock. That's right, yeah, well that's that amazing thing and I talk about it publicly and if it bothers you,

you can tell me because I know you're like, you're supposed to be anonymous, but you know, we're helping people here. Yeah, I'm like, yeah, but like that fourth step, man, I mean, if you do that thoroughly, it's sort of like, you're supposed to be anonymous, but you know, go, we're helping people here. Yeah, I'm like, yeah, but like that fourth step, man, I mean, if you do that thoroughly, it's sort of like, no, that's who I am. These are the things, the character defects that drive me. And a lot of times it's not being an asshole,

it's the opposite, where you just suck it up or take the hit. Well, there was a lot of- Self-centered fear. Yes, there was a lot of that for me, and there was a lot of, yeah, a lot of- Self-centered fear. Yes, there was a lot of that for me. And there was a lot of, yeah, a lot of just sort of confusing and conflicting thoughts. And, you know, I think I made a lot of decisions

about who I wanted to be as a man when I was like 10 or 11. And like, you know, watching my parents' marriage fall apart, I was like, well, here's what I'm never gonna do, here are the kinds of things. And just making all these decisions before I had an understanding of who I was. So then I was living this life and having these other

things come into my brain and being like, just ignore all that. And then the alcohol would kind of like explore those types of things. And so it just was, you know, it was a lot of, I don't know, I had to kind of, when you've created your persona and there's an element of like protecting it

from the outside world and protecting your family or all these things And you're trying to ignore all the Instinctually done it is not like you don't make choices about that person. No, no, it's done to protect you Yeah like if I Show it if I show a break in the armor it can be exploited in ways that I didn't want to write like just Circle the wagons. Yeah, yeah

And then the only way out becomes like, you know, when you drink, you're sort of like, you're not that self-conscious. That was exactly it. Right. Yeah, yeah, and so. You get relief from yourself. Yes, but then, if I then did something

that made me feel like shameful, I would, it would just be, you know, the next day I would just go into like a spiral. Yeah, it's it would just be you know, the next day. I would just go into like a spine. Yeah spiral Yeah, it's like it's like yeah, you can't win because you know, you're instinctively You know getting relief from it through the booze and then that makes you act a certain way and then you get to wake up And beat the shit out of yourself more than you usually do Exactly. Exactly. It's just with that without the booze, you're already operating at a level of shame and self-abuse. Exactly.

And then when your persona that's built on alcohol is out in the world, and then the next day you're like, oh, a fucking double asshole. And it's almost like you're being dragged by this other thing, which is the booze. Absolutely. And it's like, you know, and for a while it felt like like a, like, you know, almost like Jekyll and Hyde or something like that. But then you're like, no, that's like both me. Yeah.

In a way. And so you have to kind of like, you know, I think now I have, instead of just like ignoring all the bad stuff or putting it aside or sweeping it under the rug I'm like it exists with me. I carry a low level amount of shame just all the time. It's a hard one to kick if you brought up a certain way if you're wired for it. Yeah, absolutely. But you can integrate the other things and kind of make choices like when that's the real benefit of sobriety, is that you realize you can make different choices.

That's the biggest part. And that was the thing that was the scariest for me, is there were so many times where I felt like, I'm not making these choices. I'm not in control. So, you know, and I think like, after my relationship with Mariana ended, I felt like, you know, when I was 19 and I met her,

I was like, here's my thing from my childhood. You're my person, one person for my whole life. It's you and me, we'll just work through everything. I'm not gonna like cut and run or whatever. And then, like trying to hold on to all of that. And I think one- So you're still drinking? Oh yeah, yeah.

And then when, and even after we ended, I think there was an element with the alcohol and the fact that like 11 years later, I was like, I can't make good on any of those promises anymore. Like I were separating. Were they that long? Yeah, yeah.

And so it was like... But you had to do it to save your sanity and life somehow. Yeah, yeah. And I think I had a lot of growing to do, but when I was out in the world, and even in the beginning of my relationship with Melanie, I was like, let me just tell you something about myself. I can't promise anything beyond right now because I already have promised someone

big things and I didn't make good on them so I am a flawed, you know, I can't, I will never be able to like... And when did your dad passed it during like... My dad passed kind of early on? Mariana with Mariana. Yeah, like with I guess four years four years in Into our relationship and then and that was completely out of nowhere that that happened that was completely out of nowhere but one thing that I like I'm just so grateful to Mariana about is that, you know, her father has or had, he passed, but he had Huntington's disease,

which is this awful disease. And so, you know, she really inspired me when I felt like I had all the time in the world. She was like, talk to your dad about the stuff that's bothering you. And I was like, uh, and she's like, I wish I, talk to your dad about the stuff that's bothering you, and I was like, and she's like, I wish I could talk to my dad about my stuff, I can't, cause he's ill.

So she kind of spurred me to create a more honest relationship with my dad and get brave and call him, and be like, I wanna talk about, I know we, it was complicated cause he was always so fun Yeah, but I had stuff that I wanted to talk to you So he would come over and I would be like today's the day that I'm gonna like And then we like laugh the whole time. Yeah, even I'd like So she she so I did that like I I had like an amazing

like kind of conversation with my... You got some honesty and closure about your feelings? Yeah, and I was like, I don't want you to feel like you have to hide stuff. I'm not mad anymore. I just want to know who you are, and I want you to know who I am, and I want you to feel like you can tell me things. Right. And it really changed our relationship.

Wow. And then really changed our relationship. Wow. And then he passed like a year or two later. So if I hadn't done it then, I wouldn't have had that chance. So I just feel very grateful to her for that. But you were able to sort of go through the impact of who he was and the divorce and all that stuff and who you are with him.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's great. But I also think there was an element of like, a lot of my intense sort of feelings about love and sex and marriage and all this stuff was like, I'm gonna show my dad how you can do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then when he was gone, it was like...

Ooh... Who am I showing? Yeah, yeah. Like, what if I lived for a very long time? Yeah. You know? As I also had some weird thought, like, maybe I'll die... early. For some reason, I had the weird thing about that.

And then when I didn't I was like, oh so I gotta look at some of this stuff. You gotta learn how to live. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like sometimes, you know people who pass early it's like you see like the beauty of their life has become so apparent. Because it's finite. Yeah, because it's finite.

And so there was an element of like, if I just ignore all this stuff until I reach the finish line, people will go like, oh wow, he really, you know. And then all of a sudden it's like, okay. I'm still alive. I'm still alive and I better start looking at some of this shit.

Yeah, well how long after he died did you stop drinking? Oh boy, okay, so. Did it exacerbate it? 10 years. Oh wow. Yeah, yeah. So did it send you off on a spiral? Did it intensify it?

It definitely did at first, so I can't, you know. And I mean, yeah, I, you know, I mean, yeah, I, you know, I mean, you know as well as anybody, like grief is such a wild. It's fucking, it's like, it's mind blowing. It's mind blowing. And I mean, I couldn't imagine like the intensity of just losing a parent so quickly and at a very young age.

I mean, he was in his 50s. It's crazy. Yeah, 54, yeah. It's crazy. It's crazy. It's just absolutely insane. And it was like, I got a call, come to the hospital, but we caught it or whatever. And I was like, oh, whew.

And I remember going to the hospital and being like, okay, this is gonna be like the beginning of a new chapter. Yeah, oh, whew. And I remember going to the hospital and being like, okay, this is gonna be like a new, the beginning of a new chapter. Yeah, sure, yeah. And then just, no, that's it. And then being like, wait, what was the last time I saw, what was the last conversation we had? It's like that first year or two, it's like the worst.

Yeah, you can't even like, the absence of rewind button becomes so apparent. Like the time marching forward, when all you want is just to go to yesterday. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, like your brain can't even manage it for as long as it takes. Yeah.

Like it's just sort of like, what? And that, like, you know, the weird bargaining part, which is so, it's such a human and beautiful and also sad thing where you're, there's just no room. Like, there's so many things in life where you make a mistake or you can sort of barter or you can explain or you can talk or you can, you know, but just the finality of like, oh no, there's nothing.

Yeah, it's all in you now. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's all one-sided. Yeah, exactly. You're just dealing with, you know. And how did everybody, like the family, get pretty tight and come together a bit?

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, I think, I mean, the first night I saw my mom and my stepmom in the same room was at the hospital that night. Oh yeah, your mom was actress too. Yeah, yeah. And she's amazing. She's, but I think, you know.

They never. They didn't, no, yeah. And then, and now they like, you know. But they never, they never. They didn't, no, yeah. And then, and now they like, you know, they just worked together for months to help my uncle, my dad's brother, Yeah. Tom, who has cerebral palsy and is such an amazing guy. But they both helped him like move,

they like worked together to like, Oh yeah? You know, things that I could not have even imagined in my child. And I was like, wow, you guys, good job. Dude, are the, cause I know Amy has the foundation, right? Yeah, yeah, Amy has the foundation. And your mom involved in that?

Not really. I mean, she helps and she supports, but it's definitely like Amy's thing. Right, wow, man. And now you did it, you got sober, you got a kid of your own. Yeah. And it's going all right?

It's going great. I mean, I can't, uh... I... You know, that was another thing I just sort of believed about myself. I was like, there's no possible way that I could be responsible enough to beat a father or whatever. Yeah. Because I remember when I talked to Melanie years ago, I think it was before you guys were...

Maybe it just had to be... I don't think you guys were together when I first... when I talked to Melanie years ago, I think it was before you guys were, I maybe just at the beginning, I don't think you guys were together when I first, when I talked to her on the podcast. We were together, but there was, you know, I can't remember if I was still drinking or if I was just newly sober. Well, yeah, because I remember we talked about codependency. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, yeah, and there was, I think Melanie and I, if we hadn't met exactly when we met in our like healing journeys of ourselves, I don't think we would have Survived it? Survived it. Because I don't think if she was a little healthier,

I think, I don't think she would have put up with my bullshit. That's right. And I think if I was, I don't even know. I mean, I just feel so. Well, you had the companion recovery thing. Like you both had, you had the symbiotic issues that define alcoholic relationships. Exactly.

And you were both hitting the recovery point at the same time. Yes. So it became very immediate, but you were dedicated to recovery and you were able to find the language to do it. Well, and I think, for my recovery, the co-dependence initially actually was partly

what saved me because I, at that point in my life where I met her and when we were starting our relationship, I've, I mean, looking, I didn't really realize it at the time. Looking back, I was super, like, depressed and really down on myself and just was like, why would, I'm a nightmare, why would anybody want to be with me? And so, getting sober, sober, it didn't really,

I didn't really care about it because I was on a self-destructive kick. And I wasn't worth, to me, I wasn't worth saving or something. Well, that inverted self-centered is the talk about. Like either you're the best thing in the world or you're the piece of shade at the center of the universe. But both of them are just the two sides

of self-centeredness. Exactly. And so it was, basically when Melanie said, you can keep drinking, but I can't be with you. If you're drinking. She was worth giving that a shot, giving sobriety a shot. I knew that she deserved that from me.

I didn't feel like I kind of. Right, oh I see. So initially you weren't necessarily doing it for yourself. Yeah, I was trying to, I was like showing her, like I do take this seriously, I do think you're amazing. I think, you know, like, probably I'll get sober and we'll work through all this stuff. And you'll go, OK, well, you're still, you're not great.

So you're already trying to trick yourself into drinking still. I think, for sure. There was a part of it that was like, if we break up, then I gave it a shot. And then I can go back to myself, distracting. Yeah. But it was a really incredible thing.

And you know, everyone was telling me at the beginning of my sobriety, everybody has different kind of rules of what works for them. And so one of the things is like, you gotta do it for yourself, you can't do it for anybody else, you can't have it be dependent.

And I was like, but for me right now, this person is worth doing it for, this person is not. Oh really? Yeah, totally. Yeah, I mean, I was, you know, I was married. I was, you know, not happy. I was, you know, using, you know, fairly secretly

because I had already tried to get sober before. I met a woman. It was not the greatest of situations, but like I was so taken with her and she was sober. So she got me sober. Wow. You know, like I kind of wanted to do it and, you know, but once it was sort of like, you know, this is how you're going to be with this person.

Right, right. You're going to get sober. Yes, exactly. So I was compelled because I was so in love with her to be sober. Absolutely. And but, but I'm glad you survived because you're so untethered. I was just horrendous. Because I didn't trust anybody.

I hated myself. I was angry and emotionally abusive. And I just wore her out. That's why they tell you you don't have a relationship in the first year. Well, that was the other thing. But I was like, fuck that. I know, yeah, same.

But I became a monster and that relationship ended. And it took me a while to realize like it was completely the right thing for her to do. But out of all of that, I did stay sober. That's amazing. But that is the hard transition though from like for somebody else to yourself because in order to stay sober,

you have to have some like at least one okay feeling about yourself or at least that you're worth not. Well then it becomes just the day count. You're just sort of like, I did another day, like I was not gonna let go of that fucking thing. That's true. I mean, that was the hardest part for me is like, when you're like a week or two weeks in,

you're like, well, I can get back here in two weeks. Let me just, I'll just have a thing. But you're like, now at this point where I'm almost at 11 years, like the idea of throwing that all away. It's fucking, a lot of people don't talk about it. I just had 25 years, so I don't think. That's incredible.

But I don't think about it the same way, because it's my life and I don't think about drinking. But there is that thing, it's sort of like, I'm not gonna be one of those guys, man. I put this fucking time together, I'm not gonna fight. Like, it was competitive. Yeah. Because you see people go down. For sure, after like decades. Sure, well then, yeah, I'm not gonna fight. Like it was competitive. Yeah. Cause you see people go down.

For sure. After like decades. Sure. Well then yeah, I know. I gotta make sure I keep that in mind. But the thing is, is like you, but you also realize that that component of the disease, which is awful, but there is this sort of,

like I think at first you're not seeing like it's tragic. You're just sort of like, I'm still winning. Right. Yeah, yeah. He was ahead of me and now he's gone. Yeah, yeah. If that's what keeps it going, fuck it. That's true. I mean, I, you know, it is crazy to me,

like, because I remember just being the guy with the fewest days in all the rooms. Just crazy. And you're crazy, and you're self-pitying. Oh, yeah. And you just can't shut up about yourself. And I also, I was one of those guys who was like, you know, everyone's like, I am this, I'm an alcoholic.

And I'd be like, I'm Jason, we'll see. I don't know what, I don't know if I am or not. You're here for a summary. Exactly, that guy. I can't, I don't know if I'm an alcohol, but I'm definitely not as bad as you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. You know, I'm like just doing all those kinds of things

of like, all right, well, I never did that, so I must not be so bad I think the codependency your natural codependency probably like saved you I think so because like you grew up with it. You know constantly kind of like concerned about Your behaviors impact on your old man And everybody yeah because there's a different type of cuz I I'm as codependent as I am alcoholic for sure. Yeah, yeah. And if you're just sort of like, fuck everything,

then that's a different thing. That is a different thing, yeah. But if you're selfish enough to think that you can change or manage other people, I think that that component of it sometimes helps sobriety. Absolutely, I think. Living for somebody else sometimes helps sobriety. Absolutely. I think... Living for somebody else.

Absolutely. I mean, well, it's like, it's one of those things where I feel like I had so much more empathy for anybody else, except for me. Like, I had such a high standard for myself that I was never reaching. Right, right. And, but I could at least try to... Show up for people.

Yeah, show up or not actively do more damage, you know, to the people, I could at least try to... Show up for people. Yeah, show up and not, or not actively do more damage, you know, to the people that I care about. So when did you have the kid? How sober were you? Uh, let's see, so I think I was about five or six years sober. That's good. Five years sober, because she's five now, or no, six, yeah. That's great.

You did it. I did it. And you work all the time and it's good. It's great. Yeah. You did it. I did it. And you work all the time, and it's good. It's good, I feel. I mean, it's been amazing to, you know, Melanie really works all the time. I've been working pretty steadily, but it's been incredible to see her just, like, actually not stop and have this, like, incredible time. Yeah, she finally, you know, like really got her day.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Because for years everyone was like, she's the best, like she's so fucking good. Yeah, yeah. And then it's just this thing happened where it's just the perfect showcase for what she does. Absolutely. She's always been great.

She's always been great. It's exciting to see like new people realize, and then have like, you know, fans of Yellow Jackets or whatever go back and be like oh she was this good when she was 15. I mean you know like it's yeah when I got to act with her I was like oh my god so nervous. Yeah yeah she's amazing yeah and just the loveliest person. Well I'm happy for you guys.

Thank you. Well, maybe I'll get your number in, because if you're going to go up there, maybe we can all hang out. That would be awesome. Because I'll be up there. Yeah. All right, great talking to you, man.

Yeah, great talking to you too. That was so fun. ["Spring Day in the City"] Here we go, great guy. Pleasure talking to him. Matlock premieres this Sunday on CBS. Hang out for a minute, folks. Okay, full-mearing listeners, if you're interested in what I find funny,

we put up a bonus episode this week trying to get to the bottom of it. It's called What Makes Mark Laugh. When I was a kid, you know, I remember being just shit crazy over that first season of SNL. I mean, I must've been 13. My parents would let me stay up to watch it. I would go to school the next day and do pratfalls like Chevy Chase.

You know, I was in, you know, and then I remember watching Monty Python's Flying Circus and thinking it was like from another planet. I didn't- But funny, you liked it? I think I thought it was like from another planet. I didn't know. But funny, you liked it? I think I thought it was weird. But like I didn't really understand what I was watching. I was young because it was around the same time

and that would show up on PBS. And then, you know, when I was a kid and my brother and I would, you know, listen to comedy records, you know, there was definitely like a rotation of listening that class clown album by George Carlin the Cheech and Chong records We used to do we used to act them out We used to you know I'd listen to I Remember the first time I saw Richard Pryor live in concert when I was in high school And it had just come out was at 78 or something and my buddy Dave

And I went to see it at a or something, and my buddy Dave and I went to see it at a midnight movie and I lost my shit. So, you know, there was that and then there was also, you know, the Woody Allen stuff had a profound impact on me. Mostly, I think the first Woody Allen movie I ever saw was that the one that he didn't write, or the one that he didn't direct. or the one that he didn't direct, was played again, Sam.

Played again, Sam? Yeah. There's a bit in there that I'll never forget, that to me was one of the funniest things, and remains one of the funniest moments I can ever imagine where, you know, he's all excited about something, I don't remember what,

and he's kinda skipping down the street, and you know, he pats some guy on the back who's sitting on this ledge over the water, and the guy just falls, and he keeps walking. And he just keeps walking. And I remember that stuff, man. You can listen to that episode right now and get bonus episodes twice a week

when you subscribe to The Full Marin. Go to the link in the episode description or go to WTFPod.com and click on WTF plus. And a reminder before we go, this podcast is hosted by a cast. So this is me with that looper I told you about. I'm not good at the looping. It's very basic.

And then I noodled on top of it, but it's different for this part of the show. I listened to it back twice and I think I did all right. ["The Last Supper"] So So So So So So So So Boomer lives, Monkey and La Fonda, Cat Angels everywhere!