WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1584 - Robert Zemeckis

Episode Date: October 21, 2024

Many films in the career of Robert Zemeckis, including his new one called Here, involve some form of time travel. As Robert explains to Marc, nothing does time travel better than movies. Robert talks with Marc about becoming a filmmaker thanks to Jerry Lewis, his partnership with Steven Spielberg, his collaborations with Tom Hanks, and the making of his beloved films like Back to the Future, Who Framed Roger Rabbit?, Forrest Gump and more.This episode is sponsored by the Freedom From Religion Foundation, dedicated to the rights of freethinkers and protecting the constitutional principle of Church and State. Visit FFRF.org/vote to get involved. Or text WTF to 511511 and receive a free issue of FFRF's newspaper, Freethought Today. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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What the fuck, Nick? How's everyone holding up here in the final stages of civilization and Occupancy of the planet Earth? How's it going for you? Are you staying busy? Are you staying busy in these trying times with worry and panic and? Some maybe some you know tanningning I don't know what you're doing are you scrolling right now are you on the treadmill have you given up on that are you just eating whatever the fuck you want because today it doesn't matter anymore just doesn't matter if I wake up tomorrow I can start over again

with what I'm supposed to be doing, but today, today I feed the whole. Today I feed the whole. Where are those t-shirts? Huh? There's only a couple kinds of people in the world. There's fuck you people and there's um fucked people. Sadly, that means everybody's kind of fucked, but you know, the fuck people seem to have a the upper hand because they don't give a shit morally or

empathetically or or Spiritually, you know, so today on the show my friends Robert Zemeckis is here. He's the director of the back to the future movies for us G Gump, Who Framed Roger Rabbit, Castaway, Flight, lots more. Used cars. Yeah, go see how that one holds up. His new movie with Tom Hanks and Robin Wright is called Here, and I saw it, it's very interesting. There's a device to it that works,

and it's like nothing I've seen before in terms of dealing with time cinematically. He's kind of a've seen before in terms of dealing with time, cinematically. He's kind of a risk taker in terms of, I don't know if it's a risk taking thing, but he enjoys and embraces the possibilities of technology to tell a human story. And I walked into that movie not expecting it to open with the dinosaurs.

Yeah, literally opens with the dinosaurs and moves right up into the present day, all on the same piece of property without moving the camera. What do you what do you think of that? And also, you know, I watched Roger Rabbit, you know, when I was preparing to talk to Robert, I was watching, you know, Roger Rabbit, and I don't think I'd seen it since it came out, and I gotta be honest, man, it's a fucking great movie.

It's just a great movie. And the whole template is there for how he, you know, thinks about things, but even the effects hold up because they're simple and the actors played so beautifully with the cartoon. I can't, it's, I don't even, it doesn't even feel like me saying this, but you should rewatch that. If you just want some entertainment with a lot of heart,

you know, watch Roger Rabbit. I mean, outside of the device, Bob Hoskins, If you just want some entertainment with a lot of heart, you know watch Roger Rabbit I mean outside of the device Bob Hoskins is fucking a marvel I Don't know how much time you spend Appreciating Bob Hoskins, but I would say it's time to start and I would go right from Roger Rabbit to like Long Good Friday Get the full spectrum of the Hoskins. I wish I had talked to that guy.

I'll be at Dynasty Typewriter in Los Angeles on Saturday, October 26th. The rest of my tour dates are scheduled for next year. You can go to WTFpod.com slash tour to see all of them. Hey, are you using all the subscriptions you signed up for right now? Are you? Here's a better question. Do you even know how many subscriptions you have? Do you? Don't worry. You're not alone. More than 74% of people have subscriptions they've forgotten about. I used to be one of those people, but with Rocket Money, I don't have to remember every subscription or worry about forgetting any because I can see them all

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subscriptions, saving members up to $740 a year when using all of the app's features. Stop wasting money on things you don't use. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions by going to rocketmoney.com slash WTF. That's rocketmoney.com slash WTF. I had a major breakthrough on set last week, if anyone cares. And I can't really go into it, but eventually I will be able to. But I did a scene with a movie star, one of the great actresses. one of the great actresses. And I got to a place I've never gotten before and now I can never go back. I'm a changed man because of the work I did with this woman.

Changed man, emotionally, creatively, and every other way. I went and did comedy the other night after I did these two fucking scenes last week that kind of took me to a place that I never thought I could get to. And already it's had an amazing impact on just my standup. I can't even explain it right now, but hopefully I'll be able to.

But boy, man, we did something and I can never go back now. I just got to a place and I'd rather save the story for when I can really tell it to you because it was pretty powerful. And it's going well, I'm tired, there's a lot of work. And I just want you to know, look, you guys, I'm trying to put the pieces together.

I understand now a bit more about how the fascism is gonna work You know look if this election goes one way. It's gonna be fucking terrible Beyond any we anything we can imagine That's one outcome the other outcome. It's going to be manageable and probably a bit

hopeful and probably a bit hopeful, just in terms of holding back the tide of hateful monsters. And here's the thing about the way what's happened, like especially in show business. Now you see, whatever's happening with certain players in this game, the idea of comedians being important voices in culture, like the comedian, the idea was that, you know,

you get a comedian that can speak truth to power in a certain way, and, you know, or just be dirty and filthy and funny, whatever the fact. But the thing is, is the way it's panning out now in terms of how comedians are important and whether they know it or not, some of them, yeah, everybody wants to make money. Everybody wants to be famous.

Like, yeah, I don't, I think I'm famous enough, whatever that is. It isn't barely famous, which is fine, I can have a life. But there are people that want all the money and all the fame and show business is collapsing. So now you have these, in terms of the right or the sort of shameless, thinly veiled fascist future possible, you now have ideologically aligned

self-producing content creators with huge audiences. And they can do their thing and be like, hey, fuck woke, fuck censorship, fuck, you know what I mean? Whatever it is, it doesn't matter. But it's tribal leadership. You're not speaking truth to power, really. You're just steamrolling smaller voices. But the bigger issue is that when those

Self-producing content creators align themselves Because they're desired by platforms with huge audience even bigger audience global audiences Who because of the nature of show business are just looking to save money to you know manage their bottom line So you got a self promoting, you know, popular person, like, well, just put them on our thing, which makes them the larger platform ideologically aligned with whatever this fucking right wing fascist bullshit is. And then you may not be able to read it

or hear it in the material, but break it down. Look at the talking points. Look at what everyone's talking about. The same shit. So once you have that in place, the larger platforms, global platforms, platforms that have investors, are now just sort of like trying to make their investors happy by protecting the bottom line and giving voice to the worst of

them which puts that voice out there in a bigger way but also maintains that audience that tribe that cult and so what happens is with that agenda that's sympathetic to the new fascism, you've got a lot in place there. Old show business doesn't matter. Interesting artistic stuff doesn't matter. Critics don't matter. Keep the people watching, keep them locked in.

Shift the narrative, shift the story just to keep people locked in. If people want fury and regurgitation of bullying, garbage, insensitive talking points, fucking give it to them, fucking give it to them. And that's how the entertainment structure gets consumed by fascist thought. Big corporations with a lot of money invested are very fascist thought. Big corporations with a lot of money invested are very fascist friendly, as long as they can keep being the ones that make the money.

And don't give a fuck. Let's say, what is entertainment? Let's just fuck their brains into mush, into sort of just, you know, dopamine craving little sponges. Let's do that. That'll work. But this guy, Robert Zemeckis, is a very, very amazing film director. He's done a lot of great films. And he's also a guy that likes to entertain people and he's a guy that likes to you know take chances and do new stuff. I mean you can see that by

his whole catalog. The movie that I went to see that I told you about earlier that's coming out in theaters on Friday November 1st is called Here with Tom Hanks and it's got a very interesting conceit to it and and I always like talking to directors because you get you really do get the full picture this is me talking to Robert Zemeckis hey folks let your imagination soar by visiting audible.ca audible has the best selection of audiobooks without exception along with popular podcasts and exclusive audible originals all in one easy app whether you listen to stories motivation expert advice

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by Tiffany Hanisch or Sonic Life by Thurston Moore. There's more to imagine when you listen. Sign up for a free 30 day Audible trial and your first audiobook is free. Visit audible.ca So you know what I did last night which I hadn't done I can't remember I watched Roger Rabbit last night. Oh you did? I did and it's kind of amazing how well it holds up. That's good to know.

Everything about it. That's pretty cool. Yeah. Do you have memories of that? Oh yeah. I mean it memories of that? Oh yeah. I mean, it was like, it was an adventure. Yeah. I mean, and Hoskins is so good.

He's great. It's unbelievable. He's a great actor. Oh, of course he's a great actor. But like even the technology of it all, it's all still seamless. It's not, you know, it doesn't like look like something like, oh, well, you know, they perfected that.

Right. Finally. Yeah, and the thing about, it doesn't like look like something like, oh, you know, they perfected that. Right. Finally. Yeah, and the thing that's great about Bob, well, unfortunately he passed away, but what's great about is he was amazing because he's just a completely, you know, he would come on the studies, you know, and he, you know, the first thing he'd say is, are we filming or fucking about? And, uh, we film when we're fucking about. And, uh, he'd say, what's the verbal? And he'd walk over to the script supervisor

and scan the page and say, okay, I'm ready. Yeah. And I don't think he read the scene since he read the script the first time. And he would just step up there and just nail it. So that's how he did it. Like he would just put it into his head right before. Right before.

And it just hit it perfectly. Yeah. And yeah. Wow. I mean, it's a, I, I, well, what's your experience? Well, from an, from an acting's point of view, you'll appreciate this. Cause here's the, here's the, the reason that the illusion really works in that movie.

Yeah. Is because the live action actors are acting for both. Right. They're believing that the rabbit is there. Certainly in the case of Bob. He played it, he was really engaging with that rabbit. What was in its place during that? A piece of tape.

Come on. No, well those were the old days. We didn't have computers. You know, we had to have just a little, the smallest little target. And you had to look at a target because if you looked at something that was out of frame, it would look like you were looking through the other actor,

which is a performance thing. So you have to actually focus your eyes exactly where the cartoon character was going to be to make the illusion true. Well, out of curiosity, when working with actors, and this is sort of an off-road question, do you find that most of them sort of load up right before the scene? Like, they kind of do their line work the night before or what have you or have sides on the set and stuff? Like, Tom, how does Hank's work?

No, I don't know. Tom is, um... I don't know, because I never ask actors about their process ever. Um, but I'll tell you what I see, Tom will be on his mark, finishing a joke with a crew member, another cast member, and they're rolling the camera, and they mark the shot, and he would finish the punch line, and I would say action, and he would do the scene.

No kidding. So I wonder if that's his way of getting into the present. Could be, could be kind of like just kind of a, some kind of a, you know, Yeah. Not, some kind of a verbal Zen thing or something. I don't know. So here's what I thought of like moments before you came

here in terms of what seems to be a through line even up to this this new movie but but there's something about time travel and you that it because it seems like there was a perfection a perfecting of time travel that in this movie there's some sort of in the movie here there see it's almost like an organic approach to moving through epochs, you know, literally thousands of years in a way that is smooth. I mean, you know, with Back to the Future, it's actually a time travel movie.

And with Gump, you're inserting a guy into actual history through images. But I mean, is that something you think about? I don't think about, I don't think about, well, listen, now that I've made a bunch of movies, I think that I think about this time travel thing. And here's what I think might be the reason, and I don't really know, is nothing does it better than movies.

Sure. I mean, and movies are actually time shifting art form. Yep. You know, I mean, film's going, well, the old days, film was going through a gate or like what we're doing now, it's a cursor moving across a timeline. Yeah. And that's what you call it, it's the timeline.

Right, sure. And so that might have something to do with it, but I just, you know, I just fell in love with the book here, the graphic novel, and just immediately saw the movie. Saw the movie that I made. I just saw it. Well, and when I watched it, I didn't know it was from a graphic novel, but the way the technology works, it's pretty clear you're honoring with the squares.

The panels. The panels that you're honoring a graphic novel format. Exactly. But do you think, like, now with all this discussion about AI and everything and about technology in general, seeing that you were at the cutting edge of all this cinema technology, I mean, you obviously don't think it's a threat to anything,

and it's obviously an amazing tool, but are you concerned about the human element? Well, look, I mean, I think, okay, I'll go into my whole feeling about it. I mean, my feeling about it is, is first of all, every new technology is instantly feared. Yeah, yeah. So that we know.

I mean, people were terrified of electricity. They were terrified of steam trains going faster than 30 miles an hour. You know, they thought the human body couldn't, you know, it was impol- You know, it would be bad for your health to travel that fast. Faster than 30 miles an hour.

30 miles an hour, right. So, we'll get through that. But yeah, but I think that it certainly can be misused. I mean, we're going to see it big time in this election. And then on the other side, I've read things where I said, well, this could cure cancer. Sure. But like, you know, something that's directly screwing with your mind. It turns out that the mind is a lot more fragile

than anything else. Oh yeah, completely. Well, the way I look at what I do though, I don't really, I mean, I don't use, I don't even like using the word for what I do, yeah, you know, AI, because I'm just making images for movies. Yeah.

So for what I use it for, it's really fast computing. Yeah. So for what I use it for, it's really fast computing. And it creates now, I think, flawless digital makeup. Right, okay. And because there is, in this movie and here, I mean, it's a human movie. 100%. And the heart of the humanity of the thing

has to be at the forefront. It's what's driving the whole thing. Exactly, and the other thing that it has to, the other thing that, the other thing that makes it all work are the performances. Yes. I mean, it's just like, it's no different than putting old age prosthetics on a great actor

and having him do a magnificent old age performance when he's middle age. So, you know, Tom and Robin and Kelly, I mean, Paul, they all said, okay, we know what we have to do here. We have to like, we have to approach this like we were doing another age and we're gonna be young.

Yeah. So the other way I can look at it is music, right? All right, you've been working with the same guy a long time, right? Yeah, but no I was gonna say about the about the synthetic Creation of music. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's to a point now where it can be done flawlessly. Yeah Yeah, but even well, that's the big question. Do you want flawless? I mean it's all relative to the technology like I'd rather somebody, like, I'll listen to music from the 70s, you know, overly produced or things that don't even sound human anymore, but that just might be my age or my preference.

Well, I think it's another, it's another, what I was getting at is even though we have these tools, there's still, we still need musicians. Sure. That's what I'm getting at. So I think the big fear with AI is, oh my God, we're gonna replace all actors. Well, not really. It's like saying we're gonna replace all musicians. Well, yeah, but I think the other fear is,

as you know, with this type of technology, is people will eventually adapt to anything, and if the actor goes, you give it a decade and people aren't going to miss it. Right. So, look, so what's going to probably happen, I don't know if it's going to happen in my lifetime, about what's probably going to, could, you know, they say this stuff is moving fast. What could happen is that a, what do we want to call him, a movie maker. Yeah. Could just be in his basement.

Yeah. With his computers. Right. And do every performance, create avatar characters. Sure. Do the voices, do the performances. Yes. Write the whole thing.

Do the music. Do everything. Right. And, you know, it'll be a different art form. Yeah. do the performances, write the whole thing, do the music, do everything. And it'll be a different art form. Yeah, and then the old art form will just be on YouTube, and people will be like, look, they just moved like real people. Yeah, if you look at how magnificent the charge at Aqaba was in Lawrence of Arabia. That was real.

I know, it's crazy. I mean, it's crazy. But you can feel that. It's wonderful. Can't you feel it? Oh, God, you can totally feel it. That's a big difference. I agree.

I mean, so that becomes the shift that's a concern in terms of the danger of visual technology is that you kind of lose that feeling, that human element. And I think it's already happening because it's here. Well, here's what I think. Look, I mean, it's going to come. Here's what... Yeah. Here's...

Okay, so it's supposed to be a medium that's entertaining. Yeah. Okay, so we have to entertain. Yeah. Here's, okay, so it's supposed to be a medium that's entertaining. Yeah. Okay, so we have to entertain. Yeah. Okay. And- That was all, that's all you ever thought of. That's, I always, I always understood that I'm in a mass entertainment industry.

That's what I always understood. And that was your goal. Because that's what I loved. I loved going to movies and I had a movies, and I had a thing happen. I had a thing happen in my hometown of Santa Barbara. Yeah. A couple weeks ago, this summer, they ran it. There's an old theater there called the Granada,

and they're celebrating its 100th year. Yeah. And they're going to remind everyone that they used to run movies there as well. Right. And they only wanted to run movies there as well. And they only wanted to run movies from local filmmakers. So they ran all my big hit movies. And I have people who come up to me and they were saying, and they're much younger than I am,

they go, oh my God, we went to the movie, Wentz All Back to the Future. And people were cheering in the movie and they were laughing and they were applauding when things would happen and I'm thinking, yeah, well, that's what it used to be like to go to, when you weren't watching stuff in isolation. Yeah, and that was, well, that's the human side of it. I mean, like, I guess that's the counter to the mass entertainment or being sort of involved

and compelled to push the envelope technologically is that in your mind, you have to sort of accommodate the idea that most people are gonna watch this at home and they're gonna be alone or they're gonna be with their... Yeah, that's hard for me to, I'm having a hard time wrapping, but I can only, well, let me put it this way,

I've decided that I can only do what I used to always do and see what the movie feels like. I mean, seeing here in a full theater, like when we were previewing, it's got an emotional wallop. Yeah, did it play? Had you felt it? Oh God, yeah.

Oh yeah. So, I mean, but was this, do you remember your first experience with movies? When I was, yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. So, I mean, but was this, do you remember your first experience with movies? When I was a kid? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Like the one that was like, you know, oh my God. Well, I can tell you the movie interestingly.

I can tell you, I'll tell you the movie that, so when I was a kid, you know, I loved going to movies. I loved going to see war movies and anything with special effects in it, you know, monster movies. Did you go with your dad or something? I would go with my dad. I love going to see war movies and anything with special effects in it, you know monster movies You go with your dad or something? I would go my dad. I go by you know where I grew up, you know, we went Far South Side of Chicago and

Go on Tuesday nights because ladies would get in free, you know that kind of thing and I mean they took me to see Psycho Yeah, I mean, I you know, I mean, they took me to see Psycho. I mean, you know, it was great. I remember the first movie I ever saw ever, and it was The Blob. Yeah. I remember it vividly. So when I was in high school, all the kids in school were saying, hey, you gotta go see this movie

called Bonnie and Clyde. And it's got this great machine gunning thing at the end. It's great. You gotta go see it. And Bonnie and Clyde. And it's got this great machine gunning thing at the end. It's great, you gotta go see it. And so I talked my dad into taking me to see Bonnie and Clyde. And which is one of my favorite, obviously it's one of my favorite movies,

Arthur Penn, great, great director. Yeah, I'll have you watch that again. The layers of the sexual elements of that movie. You can't take that in when you're a kid. Oh, I can't take it in when you're a kid. But I did fall in love with those characters. Yeah. Yeah. And then there's that great scene

when Gene Hackman gets shot in the head. Oh yeah. And he's dying in this field. Cars parked around with their headlights on. And I felt so horrible. Yeah. And it was the first time I really remember saying, wait, something's going on here.

Yeah. I'm saying, this is really, this is powerful, because I'm in this movie theater with these people, and I feel really bad for this thing that doesn't even exist. Right. these shadows. And these are criminal. And these are criminals. And I thought, and that's when I said,

I gotta figure, I gotta find out what this is. The magic? The magic. And then I started understanding, oh wait, there's writers and then there's a director and I started learning everything about how films were made. The magic works. And how, and where that where all that came from.

And then I just had to do it. Well, so how did your parents feel about this obsession? I mean, were they supportive? What kind of family you come from? Was it a working class family? Oh, no, it came from a working poor family, yeah. Well, we thought we were middle class, but when I look back on it, we were. we were, we were, no, it was, it was, it was, uh...

Were they immigrants, your folks? My mother, interestingly enough, came over, uh, my mother, my father, my name is, my father is Lithuanian. Yeah. His family, and my mother is Italian. Yeah. And, uh, that's a combination that can only happen in Chicago. Chicago's an amazing city. Yeah, it really is.

And so my mother came over when she was one year old. Okay. So she was born in Italy. Yeah. So anyway, that's the family I grew up as a... Your dad grew up, he was born here? My dad was born here. Yeah.

Yeah. And what was his business? He was a carpenter. He was a He was a trim carpenter. Yeah, and We made cabinets in the basement. He had a little woodworking shop. Oh, wow that didn't strike you as a as an Occupation I can't I can't hammer a nail straight or do a saw cut I can't do I can't't do one speck of it. So you grew up with that saw in the basement?

The sound of it? Oh yeah, yeah, all those, you know, D-Walt Rotor saw. And all that running down there, all the time. You have brothers and sisters? I have one sister who's two years younger than I am. Yeah? What'd she end up in?

No, she lives in the suburbs of Chicago. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. She's married, so she's... Not in the show Biz Racket? Didn't come, didn't follow me. So when you share your obsession with this film, I mean, what was the reaction? All right, well, I'll tell you the truth.

Well, where the reaction came was when I miraculously got accepted into the USC film school. Yeah, yeah. After undergrad? No, I was there as an undergrad. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah, my uncle got me a job. I was making all these movies all through high school.

Super 8? All these Super 8 movies, right? All these Super 8 movies and- Stop action stuff? A bunch of that. Yeah. Because the actors would do what I wanted them to do. Because the only actor, my sister was always the actor,

the actress in the movie. And my cousins and stuff, we would do, and I would make these eight millimeter movies. And then my uncle knew a guy who had a small production company in Illinois. And I got a job there as a gopher and, you know, doing like painting lawn furniture and stuff. But I worked my way up into becoming what I would call

like an assistant editor when they're making these industrial films. And so I used all their equipment. And on the weekends, I made a 16 millimeter short film. Yeah. And I... That's what you submitted to USC? I submitted to USC.

What was that about? It was sort of like, it was like a rock video. I used Golden Slumbers from The Beatles as my soundtrack. And it had kids running through a cornfield and it was pretty avant-garde. Oh yeah? Yeah. Were you aware of that? Were you aware of avant-garde movies?

No. No. I was a Hollywood, I was a Hollywood, mainstream, mainstream movie guy. Always mainstream. Always mainstream. So you didn't even tell?

But I gotta tell you the story of how I found out about, the real miracle was finding out about the USC film school. Right. I always stayed up, I was a movie director, The real miracle was finding out about the USC Film School. Right. I always stayed up every night, my family would go to bed, and I'd watch Johnny Carson. Yeah.

One night, Johnny's guest was Jerry Lewis. Yeah. And Johnny says, hey Jerry, I understand you're a professor. Yeah. And Johnny says, hey, Jerry, I understand you're a professor. Yeah. And he goes, yeah, that's right. I teach filmmaking at the USC School of Cinema. And I literally stood up in the room and I said,

school of cinema? Yeah. Such a place exists? Uh-huh. And the next day, I went to the local library branch in my neighborhood. And I went through the college catalogs. And I found USC.

And I found the school performing arts. And I opened up the page for the cinema school and there's a picture of Alfred Hitchcock standing in front of a class and you were like I said this is this is where I gotta go it's I told this I was working with Jim Carey yeah he said you ever tell that story to Jerry yeah I said no he said I'll get him on the phone right now and he called Jerry call Jerry Lewis and said tell the story and what Jerry said he called up Jerry Lewis and he said, tell him the story. And what did Jerry say? He said, oh, that's great. I really appreciate it. But you know, Bob, I'm still working.

So you know, anytime you need it, you're... The sad ending to the call. It's so funny that he's the delivery. He's the delivery, the guy, the messenger, Jerry Lewis. Jerry Lewis. I mean, but I mean, there's the power and the great window on the world kind of thing of television. Yeah. I mean, that's the only way.

Jerry. So when I got accepted into the film school, my father literally said, are you telling me my son is gonna go join the circus? Yeah. Yeah. That was what my father's exact quote was. The circus.

The circus, it was kind of right. Totally right. Totally right. And my mother said, she said, Bob, kids who grow up in the South Side of Chicago, don't become movie directors. Yeah. And she was doing it not to hurt my feelings, who grew up in the South Side of Chicago. Don't become movie directors. Yeah.

And she was doing it not to hurt my feelings, but to tell him not to have me break my heart. It's impractical. Completely impractical. Impossible. And also is that kind of working class idea of like there's a whole other world. How do you even get into that world?

Yeah, I know. It's like, it's crazy when you think about it. So how old are you? You're like 19? Yeah, I'm. Yeah. It's like, it's crazy when you think about it. So how old are you? You're like 19? Yeah, I'm like 19. And you come to Hollywood? I come cold turkey, right to downtown. Do you drive a car?

I drove my car out. What kind of car? It was a 1964 Thunderbird. It had a giant engine, gas guzzling, but it was fast. Yeah. No air conditioning. Yeah. It had a giant engine, gas guzzling, but it was fast. No air conditioning. And I drove it across country and I showed up in downtown LA, a couple miles from USC, checked in the Holiday Inn.

And that was it. And that was it. And you showed up for school and you don't know what to expect. I don't know what to expect. I don't know what to expect. But it was very dramatic because on the first day of the first class, which is some kind of introduction to cinema type of thing, the instructor came, I remember his name, his name was Dick Harbour. And he got in front of the class and he said, okay, well, here we are.

Welcome to the USC film school. He said, so I'll just give you a little idea of what we do here. And the lights went down. And up on the screen came George Lucas's THX. Yeah. The student film. Right.

And it was like, holy shit. Yeah. This is a high bar. Yeah, yeah, yeah it was it was very dramatic Did that appear to you as an art film? That To me that was just no that was a science fiction story. Yeah, and it was like a Spectacular student film with just I mean a student film that takes place in the future

Yeah, so that was in there was like giant brilliant huge production, right? So you you realize like there's no limits. Yeah, it's like you can do anything, you know, so what so what'd you start because like I noticed My girlfriend brought it to my attention that the the tracking shot at the beginning of back to the future You know, and then you know, you got to go back. You must have watched touch of evil Right, I mean that seems to be, anybody who does it, I think Alvin did it in the play or two, anytime you're opening with a tracking shot that lasts a half hour, you're just trying to beat Wells.

Right, right, right. I had to put one cut in that shot though, but yeah, because the timing of the dog food didn't hit the thing, so anyway, it almost was a touch of evil shot, but I had to put... Did you have that in your head? Yeah. No, that was exactly... that was exactly the idea. Yeah, yeah. To pay homage.

No, I wasn't thinking... it is a homage, but it was just kind of like, hey, you know, this is... no one's... this is... I guess what I was thinking was, there's nobody here. This is just us showing all this to the audience. And then the character walks in, so the way to, again, the way to do that is in the most entertaining way

that you can think of doing it. Well, also, like, you know, I mean, you're kind of like an amazing storyteller at the base of all this and a writer. And I think like even I noticed that in Roger Rabbit, you know, you just, you just go around that office and you get like an hour's worth of story. Oh, yeah. You know, just shooting that desk and those pictures and it's like, all right, that's

done. We know exactly who this guy is. That's true. That was exactly the point. Exactly the point of that shot. And you did it with Dr. Brown in his lab. You kind of like you laid out, there's the whole movie. There it is. Let's fill in the gaps. And then, yeah, and in that shot in Roger Rabbit,

you're also transitioning through time. We start at night and by the time that camera shot is done, we're in the next morning. Where he wakes up. Where he wakes up, yeah. So what was the relationship with Spielberg? I watched Used Cars recently. Oh, yeah. That's one of my favorites.

Yeah. I like them all. But yeah, that's a good one. That's a fun movie. That's a good one. Oh, god, yeah. I mean, Jack Warden? I mean, come on.

Jack Warden. Jack Warden and Kurt Russell's fabulous in that movie. Oh yeah. But so were these, do you look at those movies as you figuring it out? Well, of course, because you're always learning something new. As a matter of fact, I will say I could never have made here as a, and I don't think as a novice filmmaker. As a matter of fact, I will say I could never have made here

as a, I don't think as a novice filmmaker. No. I think I had to have a whole lifetime of work and a body of work to like figure out how to do that. Well, and also the confidence of not moving a camera shot. Exactly, cause I had done enough, what we call singles or high concept shots to know what the problems are going to be.

What were they? Well, you got actors that are different heights and different sizes, and you can't adjust the camera to accommodate anything. With the one shot. One shot, so we had elaborate trenches and ramps. Oh, wow. Each one for different actors with their sizes.

Oh, my God. So that they could all walk up into their close up and back. And so it was a, and then just the amount of weeks it took to figure out what lens to use. It took that long. Yeah, because everything had to work. Yeah. I mean, you start at the dinosaurs.

I mean, you're going way back. Yeah, you go back. Yeah, it's a whole thing is one perspective. That's it, one perspective. One perspective on the world. So I'm like, oh my God, what's this going to be? Oh God. And then it opens and it's just like dinosaurs running through the land.

And then it kind of moves into the house and you sort of start to understand it, like knowing it was a graphic novel. In retrospect, that all tracks. You can do that with a graphic novel. You know, so you're like, I can do it with a movie. That's what I thought. When I saw the graphic novel, I said, this could be a really good movie. Yeah.

I said, I think this could work as a movie because it was the way Richard McGuire painted the novel was filmic. Yeah. You know? Sure. And also, like, if you live in an old house, which is rare now because there's so many people living in developments and new homes, like, this house is old.

You always wonder, like, no matter where you live, what was here? You know, what was here? Exactly. And it's interesting when the camera is in that one fixed perspective and it never moves, it's the one thing that surprised me that I didn't expect happening

is it created a different kind of a super intimacy. Yeah. And of course, it was a big chore writing because only what can happen in this one view is what we're going to see. Right. So, there was kind of, I found out that there was like a power to that. Yeah. Well, yeah, once it can see that is accepted by the audience, then you've got loaded up.

Right. So if you want to find out something about some characters, you can't cut to the bedroom or you can't go into the kitchen and hear what's going on. It all had to happen right in this one. And that's... And you really take on the history of America. I mean, that's what that movie's about in a lot. Yeah. And that's. And you really take on the history of America. I mean, that's what that movie's about in a lot of ways. Yeah, it's, well, yes, it's about the history of America, I guess, in my life.

Well, but not just in your life. No, it goes further back, it goes further back. Colonial, Native American. Oh yeah, of course, of course, of course. And then like, you know, that interesting decision, I guess it would have been what, the 20s or 30s with the inventor. Oh yeah, right, yeah. That was fun. That guy was great, yeah. Yeah, it course, of course, of course. And then like, you know, that interesting decision, I guess it would have been what, the 20s or 30s with the inventor? Oh yeah, right, yeah.

That guy was great, yeah. Yeah, it was fun. Yeah, because it's a whole different, like, you know, what you know about what went on in your house, it's always an interesting question, you know? It is, and if you think about houses that are in Europe, and they're hundreds and hundreds of years old,

and just think about all the lives and the exuberance and it's kind of really, well, that was really fascinating for me to like, just to think about that and see, and then to be able to kind of do this kind of meditation on, I hate to use that word, but I don't know what else you would call it, kind of. I like it, it's okay.

So is it too arty for you? Yeah, I don't wanna scare anybody who might be listening on the idea that everything changes. Yeah, yeah, oh yeah. Nothing's permanent. And lives come and go. Lives come and go. And then like, you know, the button at the end,

it has its own implications, the human element of a life. Exactly. And, you know, it's powerful. And it's a powerful last moment because, you know, it makes you think like, what do we hold on to? If we can. Yeah.

So what was the, how did the relationship with Steven Spielberg evolve? Cause I know those first few movies, I mean, 1941, which I haven't seen in years, was, you know, with him. Yeah, Bob Gale and I wrote that. He directed that. No, again, it started at USC Film School. I'm in a class where every Thursday night,

they would bring in, we were fortunate enough that filmmakers would bring in a movie that wasn't released yet. Okay. And then they would come and talk to the class and then do a little Q&A with the film students. Yeah. And before that class, in the class I had earlier today,

And before that class, in the class I had earlier today, my instructor said, hey, we're going to have Steven Spielberg. He's this young new director. But I want you guys to see this thing that he did for television before we see his new movie. And they ran Duel. That's crazy. I know, ran Duel. And it was like, oh, man, that was like one of the, I mean, great movies.

The whole movie's a car chase. Well yeah. But yeah, exactly. I mean, the whole thing, but the villain is this machine. So it's great. And so then they run Sugarland Express, which is a beautiful movie. And I shot with Vilmos Zygmunt was all in widescreen, Panavision, Goldie Hawn. And then this kid walked in. This kid walked in and I said, oh my God, he's like a couple years older than me,

like maybe two years older than I am. And he instantly became my hero. And so he was able to do that movie and this movie and he's this young and how to, so immediately right after the screening I just ran right up to him, button-holed him, said, hey, you wanna see my student film? He said, yeah, sure, yeah. He said, here, call myholed him, said, hey, you wanna see my student film? Yeah.

He said, yeah, sure, yeah. He said, here, call my office at, and I said, where is your office? He said, I have an office at Universal. So I followed up on that, and those were the days before there was video. Yeah. So he set up a screening room at Universal,

and I brought my movie over, and we sat there together, and I showed it to him. He said, I love this, this is great, good job. And then we sort of just, I just kept in touch with him. And then it turned out that another of the, what we used to call the USC mafia was John Milius. Oh yeah, he's great. He's great. And he loved the way Bob Gale and I wrote. And...

Well, that's something. Yeah, and he's the one who set it up for us to develop 1941. Okay. And then he gave the script to Steven. And Steven said, I love this. And then it turned out that, okay. And then that was it.

Then, you know, then Bob and I were always in the writer's room with Steven. And you met Bob at USC? Bob, yep, we met in our first class together. And he wrote All the Back to the Futures with you? All the Back to the Futures, Use Cars. No, no, that was Eric Roth. Okay.

He wrote, I Want to Hold Your Hand, Use Cars, and all three of the Back to the Future. Well, it's interesting because I'm reading, I read the Al Pacino's new memoir. And it's wild that because those movies, as good as the scripts were whatever, but the box office wasn't great, right? Yeah. So, I mean, in those days, that could really stifle your career.

Oh yeah. All right, so I had this conversation So Bob Gale and I we were in we were working on 1941 This is how it was back in the day. We're just two young guys. We didn't have any anything no money. No family No, so hey, I'm gonna fly you guys down to Alabama. I'm shooting a movie there. I'm shooting close encounters and I'm gonna fly you guys down to Alabama. I'm shooting a movie there. I'm shooting Close Encounters. And we'll work on the script at night. With the, 1941?

1941. And you guys can, I'll put you up in, I got a giant house there and you guys, I'll just put you up in that house. I got a, you know. Yeah. So we're down there working on this. And then, but on the side, Bob and I are writing,

we're writing back to the future no I want to hold your hand okay yeah I want to hold your hand so we you know we're in the process of making 1941 and we gave Steven the script for I want to hold your hand yeah said we need to you know give us some notes and he read it he said oh this is I really like this but he said you know Bob you should direct this literally like that you should direct this. Literally like that. He said, you should direct this.

I said, I know, I know, but how am I gonna do that? He said, let me make some calls. Now don't forget, this is after he made Jaws. Yeah, right. So he had a lot of juice. So he had a lot of juice. So he called Sid Scheinberg at Universal and Sid read the script and said, yeah, okay.

And then we had, you know, he said, yeah, this could, this is a, you know, the young kids running around, Beatles songs, all right, this could work. So, so I made that. That was, you know, that was one of those experiences we were talking about earlier where we were at a preview and it was like, they loved it. Yeah.

We thought, okay, this is amazing. Yeah. But obviously, no, no, didn't make a penny. And- What do you think that was about? I can tell you exactly what it was about. I was thinking back, it was about, I remember driving into the lot every day,

making a movie, I'm going, I can't believe this, I'm making a movie in Universal Studios. Culver? No. Over here in I'm making a movie in Universal Studios. Culver? No, at, over here in Burbank. Yeah, Burbank. And I'm driving in every day and I'm thinking, oh my God, I'm in this giant infrastructure, this is great. And then when it's time to release the movie,

we had our first meeting with whoever was the head of the marketing department said, oh, so, oh, yeah, what do you want us to do? Yeah. I went, oh, I'm sorry. I didn't know I'm supposed to do the marketing too. I'll go try to figure some stuff out for you. Yeah.

So, that was an important lesson. They didn't know how to sell it. Well, it was like, oh yeah, this movie's here. It was like it was one of their, some little movie that wasn't on the, you know, it was kind of- Yeah, but they didn't ice it intentionally. No, it was just that it had bigger fish to fry. Right, right.

And you had to, and so you had to get like get into the yeah to get into the pecking order System of how these movies are and understanding that your job isn't just to make there weren't it wasn't like this Giant, you know giant studio that was protecting you. Yeah, and it wasn't like that it was just kind of like okay every movie has a You know fight for itself and also like, you know at that has a fight for itself. And also, like, you know, at that point, in being in film school, you gotta realize at a certain point that, you know,

this is post-studio system, but they used to make hundreds of movies. That would go nowhere. Exactly, exactly. And every time you see them, you're like, how did I not know about this? Oh, because they made 50 other movies that year. Yep, exactly.

And you're just in the competition. Right, exactly. And so, but after that you direct the Use Cars. Use Cars, and that flopped at the box office. And what's interesting about that movie is everybody somehow, it came, it didn't make any money at the box office, but it exploded right at the birth of cable television. Okay. So everybody sees that movie of mine.

It was like a giant cable television, early cable television hit. But that doesn't add up with the big encounters at the studio. No, it didn't and didn't. But it got you the directing gig on Romancing the Stone? No, no. Yeah, yes. Yes, because Michael loved it. Michael Douglas loved the movie.

He liked to use cars. He liked to use cars and he liked my directing style. But what we had done, Bob and I, we had gone to Columbia and Frank Price was the head of the studio and he liked to use cars and he made used cars. And so we went and we pitched him an idea and it was the, it was the most spectacular pitch that Bob and I ever did.

It was a one minute long. And we went in and he said, okay, and you know, and you know, Frank was great. He put his feet up on the coffee table. He leaned back in his chair. He said, okay guys, what do you got? And we said, a high school kid goes back in time and meets his parents in high school. He goes, done, deal, go right. And that was it. And that was it. Why not? Why wouldn't he say anything else? What's he got to lose?

Exactly. Consequently, he didn't make the movie, he would put it in turn around. And so, put the movie in turn around and... Did you know that Back to the Future would be an ongoing story for several films? No, no, never. Never, not even after we made the first movie. We never had, I mean, cause I wouldn't have put, I wouldn't have put the girl in the car.

If I knew it was going to be a sequel because we had to write her out to get on with the story in the sequel. But it's interesting. So, Romancing the Stone was kind of a surprise hit. So, you had a little juice going in, right? Well, what happened was, what happened was we got turned down

from every single studio on Back to the Future. I mean, 100% even after, sometimes twice, and the only person who said, I really love this, is Steven. And I sat down with him and I said, you know, Steven, you produced two of my movies, and they didn't perform. I think if you produce the third one

and it doesn't perform, that might be the end of it for me. And he saw it and he went, I think you're right. He said, I think you're right. So then I looked for another, and all I kept getting offered were these teen comedies. Just as a director you mean the director and then finally you know Michael gave me Romancing the Stone and then fortunately that was my first hit movie yeah and then and then everybody

wanted to make Back to the Future oh yeah yeah and so Bob and I said hey we're gonna go to the guy who the only guy who ever had any faith in it go back to Steven. So he did it and so he did it Yeah, and the other like you're very protective of the franchise. Oh God, yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, there can't be a four. Yeah, and also no one can do a TV thing or no And it's like yeah, I mean, no, we don't we have a musical which is yeah fabulous But that's sort of a companion to the movie. It's not a remake of the movie or anything, or a sequel to the movie.

Yeah, and it's fun that you somehow another walked on to Christopher Lloyd, you know, for that character, but also for who frame Roger Rabbit. He's a singular kind of guy. He's great, he's great. And he's great. And you know, he would do this thing.

He would ride his bike across the country. Yeah. And I sent him the script to... We had to find him and send a script to a hardware store in North Carolina. Yeah. Where he was somewhere on his bike. and I sent him the Roger Rabbit script, and I got a call from him a couple days later, and he said, I just want to make sure this

is, I can't do voices, but he goes, I just want to make sure I got this right. I'm a toon, right? I said, yeah, you're a toon. Great, I'm in, I'm doing it. He, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, but I mean, you were just making movies. And you had enough freedom to do it that, you know, if one didn't perform as well as the other, it didn't kill you. Not, no, not, yeah, no, I was fortunate that most of the movies that I was making in the 80s and the 90s and the early 2000s were connecting pretty good. Yeah, and what was the relationship with,

it's interesting, I just realized there's another time travel element to the new one, is that you cast Robin and Tom again. Yeah, but that was only because, well, I made quite a few movies with Tom. I know, yeah. And I made quite a few movies with Robin, but we never did anything together.

And when Tom signed on to do here, I said, you know, Tom, I think, you know, you know, it would be great, would be, you know, we should, or is Robin? And he went, oh my God, that's fabulous. I called her immediately, sent her the script, and she said, I'd love to do it. And so, so there's the three,

so four of us from Forrest Gump are, well, and plus there's a whole bunch of crew people too. But Eric and I, Eric wrote Gump, Tom and Robin were in Gump, and I directed Gump. So with Gump- But it's not Gump. No, of course not.

No, it's just interesting that the pairing has sort of a romantic pairing. Like, I always wonder, because I've done a little acting, but like, you know, you always assume that everybody stays friends and they know each other. It's not the case, you know, really for most people. You know, they work together and they go have their lives. But I imagine for those two to get together in a romantic way again must have been, there must have been some sort of sense memory to the whole thing. Yeah, no, it was great.

I mean, most movies, most movies are really, you know, people will see my movies and go, oh my God, that must have been so much fun. Yeah. I go, no, it's fun to watch. But believe me, it wasn't fun to make. Yeah. Believe me, it wasn't fun to make. But here it was fun to make because it was like, okay, you know, and Tom and, seeing Tom and Robin working together, it was fantastic.

And when does this sort of like the obsession or the compulsion to stay on the cutting edge of technology really kind of quicken to place after Roger? No, I never really, I mean, people think that Back to the Future is a special effects movie and it's only got 30 shots in it and most of them are lightning. I've never put that cart before the horse.

But I do like to use every tool that's in the toolbox. If I can afford it and if I think it can work. And I love the idea of saying, hey, how can we present something we've never seen before? Which I think is what filmmakers are kind of supposed to do. Well, that's the thing about Roger is that, like, you know, I don't think I've seen that before or again in the same way. And I think a lot of that had to do with, you know, having license,

being able to license those characters that we all grew up with. And that was Stephen's, that was Stephen's magnificent contribution. He was the, and that's the one thing, the only way that that movie could have gotten made is with that one guy who was the executive producer who could call every studio and say, hey, I'd like to put your cartoon characters in this Disney movie. Yeah. And that'll never happen again. And it was a miracle that it was able to happen.

But I'd forgotten even Betty Boop shows up. Oh, yeah. And it's just like it's. And the jokes are so great. And all the actors were able to get that tone of that period and those type of movies. It was like it was I was, you know, and it's just in my mind from last night,

I was completely taken with it, you know, as a grownup. And that's the weird thing about movies, as we were talking about, even with Bonnie and Clyde, that if the movie is worth its whatever, that it grows with you, that you're always gonna find new stuff. Yeah, no, I think so. I mean, and think that's interesting. I mean, but, you know, I made Roger new stuff. Yeah, no, I think so. I mean, and think that's interesting.

I mean, but you know, I made Roger for adults. Yeah, of course. I mean, it's got cartoons in it, but it was never supposed to be a kids movie, although, you know, why not? He pulled a couple of punches with the patty cakes, but it was- Well, yeah, but that was, but that was-

It's funny. That was, but you see, but that was all like, that was in, that's what, that's what was, that's what a tune would have thought. So we weren't like violating any, we were doing it the way that we think a tune would do it. But yeah, yeah, but Patty Cake is pretty funny. That's really funny. That's really funny.

So with, you know, moving through, you know, Gump, that was like, did your expectations of that movie, I mean, it was a, like, did, your expectations of that movie, I mean, it was one of the biggest movies ever, you know, and won, you know, a lot of prizes. But when you're making it, you're not really thinking that. You're just trying to pull it off, right? Oh yeah, no, you can never, I mean, that's the thing. And yeah, you're just, and that one was,

that one was, the studio, they didn't know, they didn't know what we were making. Yeah. And we were going a lot over budget and we were hiding our overages and so they got really angry. So at one point when we finally got the movie back to LA, we still had to do the scene

where Tom is running in Monument Valley. Yeah. And they were so angry at us. I mean, the guy was running the studio at the time. I mean, he was screaming. He said, do you realize what problems you're causing me in New York? You realize what problem? I said, I'm sorry.

He said, shoot the goddamn thing in Griffith Park. Shoot it in Griffith Park. And so, Steve Starkey and I, my producer and I, we broke it down, broke it down, broke it down. And we said, look, we can do this. We got, we found this money. We can do it. We'll take a skeleton crew. We can go, we can fly into Monument Valley, we've got it all laid out, we'll be there for one day, one day, and it's perfectly on budget."

And then someone said, yeah, but it's December, yeah, what if it snows? We go, yeah, well, we're not gonna pay the insurance bond. So I said, well, what do you want us to do? Well, why don't you and Mr. Hanks put it up, put the bond up for the insurance? Yeah. So I went to Tom and I said, they want us to, he goes, gotta do it.

So we paid for our own weather insurance, and then they couldn't, then they had to say, yes, go do it. Yeah, right. It worked out. It did. Yeah. It was a beautiful day.

Yeah, and Castaway was like it with Tom, what is it about him? He's like, well, he's a great actor. Sure. And like in my opinion about all really great dramatic actors, they know how to do comedy. Yeah, oh yeah. And he's a great...

Well, he was on Sitcom. Oh yeah, yeah, 100%. And from where I'm sitting making all these movies with him, the thing that is, the thing that, um, the reason, one of the reasons why I love working with him so much is he completely understands the medium he's working in. So, and he's so generous.

You know, he'll be on a movie and he'll say, this isn't my scene. I know what I'm supposed to do here. I'm just here holding the papers, you know. Right? This is what I do in the end. And he's just so much fun to work with. He completely gets it. And he's always coming up with brilliant ways to improve everything.

It's just great. And I think it's that graciousness that makes him such an enduring movie star. I think so, too. And he's got that everyman quality that kind of works for being a movie star because you identify with them. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And then you go on this run of animated stuff. Well, performance capture stuff. Okay, yeah.

Right. Because it's not animated, but it's actors who are driving the... Yeah, well, that was a thing where we were at this point where finally we had this way to perfect doing 3D movies. Yeah. And it was because we were projecting them digitally. Yeah. And so 3D finally worked. Yeah. And you were excited about that. Excited about that and I love the control of doing a complete digital movie. In the sense that...

You don't have to go outside, you don't have to worry about the weather, you don't have to worry about whether it's going to snow, and you're losing the light and all those things that are just the... I call it the tyranny of production. Yeah, the things that make it risky. The things that make it risky because what you're doing... It's funny because when you're making a movie, you're doing like crimes against nature. You want the sun out at night and you want it to be sunny when it's snowing.

It's always that way. So on some level it was kind of like, you know, I'm going to take it a little easier. From not having to... Production standpoint with real things. Yes, exactly. In other words, it was a way to completely control what I wanted it to look like,

what I wanted it to do, what I, you know, and that was, we broke a lot of ground. Yeah. You know, we broke a lot of ground. I mean, whether, again, whether for good or for bad, but where we are now in the, where everything is digital.

Is going. Yeah. Well, when did you start the Roberts & Mechis Center for Digital Arts at USC? That was right around the year 2000, I think. Okay. So it kind of coincided with a lot of that. Yeah way. Yeah, but that was yeah that Exactly and and they have They have a volume in there now for performance capture. They have a giant IMAX theater in there. So you teach I Did I I took before that in in the early 90s? I did teach an entire film production class.

And it was a ton of work. It was... It's interesting when you entered that. You're like, yeah, sure, I'd like to share my experience. And then all of a sudden you got a job. Well, my favorite professors took me to lunch one day and they said, they said, it's time. I said, okay, how much you want? Right. And they said, no, no, no. We want your time. Oh, yeah. And I said, oh, okay. And then, you're like, I'll just write you a check next time.

Yeah, right. And so, anyway, I taught this class. And it was great. And I insisted that my screenwriting teacher co-teach it with me, because I wanted to combine directing and writing, because I'm a big believer in that. Yeah. That... Story's the utmost importance. Well, yeah. And I really think that the writer and the director have to be tied to the hip. Yeah. And I've never replaced the writer on any movie I've ever made.

And when you were with... Was Bob always on set with you and all the writers? Oh, yeah. All my writers and some of them, very few of them say, I really, I got other stuff to do, but most of them are always there and I like having them sit right next to me. Right. So you can problem solve in the moment if you have to. Yeah, exactly. Now, where does flight come from out of nowhere? So you do this, I'll just... I was, the script, yeah, the script showed up and I completely, you know, I just completely got it. It's a beautiful script.

Oh, it's a great movie. Yeah, it's great. Oh my God. Yeah. And like, you know, I mean, you know, Denzel, I mean, that guy, you just put him on screen, it's like, you know, he's... He is the real deal. Yeah, and you got to, you're worried that like, he's gonna upstage the plane.

You know, because he's like so good. He's great. I mean, he's just, he's fantastic. He's just absolutely fantastic. I mean, he's just, he's just, he is a, I mean, I can't say enough about him. And he, but he's different than Hank's? Completely different.

In the sense that like, you know, as great actors, what makes Denzel, like, so awesome? I don't know. I mean, because he would put these earbuds in. Yeah. And he would show up. You never knew it. You never had a call for him.

Yeah. Because he would still be set up to shot, and then all of a sudden I'd look in the corner and he's sitting there. And he's in his wardrobe and he's ready to go and he's got these earbuds and he's just sitting there. And I'm thinking, okay, well this is his process. And then he gets on his mark and he just, you know, just perfect for this, whatever he does,

just blows your mind. It's just perfect. So we're starting to edit the movie and I was telling the story to my editor. I was saying, you know, I noticed he's listening to music before he comes. And he said, well maybe give me, find out what that music is,

because maybe I can use it. And I said, hey, Denzel. I noticed that you're listening to this music. music is because you know I can maybe I can use it and I said hey Denzel and I noticed that you're you know listening to this music yeah you mind if you share the playlist he said no way no I said okay End of conversation. It's really a stunning movie and you're a pilot as well right so yeah so you kind of like the idea of that happening. Well, I don't like the idea of that happening, but I was able to do it so that it was all

real. Right, right. You had a personal connection to it. Yeah, no, and I knew what would, yeah. I was able to really make all the tech talk, the tower and everything was reactable. And the science of that is correct? The way he handled that situation would have worked?

Yes, yes, and it's based on a tragic Air Alaska flight that this happened to. Yeah. And there's theories, I mean, no one ever, so the way airplanes work, you know, your flight surfaces direct the air, right? And so what happened was in our movie, Right? And so what happened was in our movie, the elevator got stuck in the nose down position. So it was forcing the air to push the nose of the airplane down.

So in theory, if you were to invert the airplane, it would make the plane go back up. And then flip it right at the right moment. Right. And so I don't think anyone ever, I mean, they could maybe try to make that happen in simulators Yeah, or or aerobatic guys might be able to do it. It's crazy, man. Yeah, very exciting So that was your reentry into you know live action live action

Yeah, and you did a few but am I wrong in in in remembering that you know, you were there were two Pinocchios competing in the box office there was no box office? There was no box office for... I don't think there was any box office for either one. Oh. Because they were both streaming. It was interesting though, right? That there were two Pinocchios?

Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, there was the Del Toro one, right? And then there was ours. Yeah. There was ours. The differences are kind of interesting, right? Well, ours is the Disney version, right? Yeah, you know, we use the we use the Pinocchio from the Disney movie. Yeah, sure. Yeah

Disney movie and we use you know, we use all the characters from the Disney movie, right? Right. It's sort of interesting that this Stranger take we you know that the takes are so different of the same story. Well, the book, and the book, the Italian book that it's based on is completely dark. I mean, Pinocchio actually kills the cricket. You know. You can't have that in a movie. Right, no, right. And Pinocchio in the book cricket. You know. You can't have that in a movie.

Right. And Pinocchio in the book is like just a little asshole from the beginning, right? But that wasn't the Disney version. And so the Disney version basically has nothing to do with the original. Right. But that's sort of interesting in terms of what would be seen as an art movie and an entertainment movie. Well, yeah, it depends on how you're gonna do it.

Right, exactly. So like after this new movie here, which is it's gonna be out when we have this conversation, I hope people watch it, what's the next big, what's the plan? I don't know. Really? I don't know, oh yeah, I got,

I don't know, I don't know, things are slow, I don't know, it's, I don't know. Things are, things are slow. I mean, when I say slow, show business in general. Well, there's a strange thing happening that I've never seen before, which is nobody's in a hurry to make anything. Yeah. I mean, nobody's making anything. Yeah.

I mean, nothing. Scary? I think, I don't know how, I don't even know how to figure out what it might be, but I think nobody knows what to do. In terms of how to sell? No. What do you make? What do you do?

Why is that? Because the market is so fragmented? Because it seems like the desire to make wouldn't go away. It just seems to, you know, like money versus money coming in. Money going out versus money coming in is the issue. I don't, yeah, I guess, but, you know, it used to be, the whole time that I've been making movies, it was always about figuring out a way to make a movie that the audience wants to pay to see

so that we can make money to make more movies. Right. And I don't know how this works in the streaming world. With movies being fundamentally a tech company. With movies being fun with them. I'm into a tech company What they're being no box office, right? I mean cuz I can't even think of anything in human history where Talent and excellence in an endeavor. Is it rewarded right? I

Can you I can't think of anything? Well, I think that, yeah, everything's been muddled by social media and by streaming. So they've realized that, not unlike other technologies, if you just churn out the same thing and hold the audience, whatever that is, according to the algorithm, why not just keep doing that? And then I guess there is no incentive to... I mean, look, the truth is, all the movies that you just listed, I wouldn't be able to make any of those today.

That's terrible. But it's true though. I mean, cause they're all too... I mean, making here is a miracle. Because it's just so, there's no comp. Right. As the word we use in the business, there's no comp for it. Well, that's good when you want to make a movie.

It's good when you want to make a movie, but yeah, but I mean, but it's tough to get it, it's tough to get them green lit, you know. Yeah. That's the problem. Right. Well, I hope people see it. I enjoyed it. Well, I hope you, yeah, well, appreciate that. Thank you. It was great talking to you.

Great talking to you. That was what you call a nice, deep, good talk about film and stuff, story stuff, life stuff. Great guy, that guy. Here opens in theaters on Friday, November 1st. Hang out for a minute folks. I travel around a lot and if you if you travel like I do, I know something that's probably on your mind is money. You've got to think about how much you're spending on travel and food and lodging. Well, here's a tip. When you're away from your place, host it on Airbnb. You won't have to worry about money while you're away.

You'll be making it. And virtually any space can be an Airbnb, an extra bedroom, a guest house, even your whole home. It's easy to do and it's a great way to earn some extra cash. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at airbnb.ca slash host. Life and death were two very realistic coexisting possibilities in my life. I didn't even think I'd make it to like my 16th birthday to be honest. I grew up being scared of who I was. Any one of us at any time can be affected by mental health and addictions.

Just taking that first step makes a big difference. It's the hardest step. But CAMH was there from the beginning. Everyone deserves better mental health care. To hear more stories of recovery, visit CAMH.ca. Hey, people. On Thursday, I talked to country star Keith Urban. And Keith was actually on the show once before, for a few seconds.

It was back during the pandemic when before for a few seconds. It was back during the pandemic when we were doing stuff over zoom and when I talked to Nicole Kidman, Keith made a brief cameo. Wow, a country music star and a movie star in the same frame. You play guitar. I do. I got a lot of guitars right behind me. What does Keith play? What do you usually play? What's your guitar? Telecaster? Everything. Tele-Strat, Gibson, Les Pauls. What's your favorite one though? It changes. You like that single coil sound? I just got a I got a 62 S Paul Jr a few weeks ago. Oh 62, very nice. Right with just the 1P90 on there. It's great. There's nothing like it. I know it's a good rock guitar

Great rock guitar. Yeah, Billy Armstrong agrees. Uh-huh Bye Nice to talk to you That's who you should be talking to that's episode 1191 and you can listen to that for free right now wherever you're listening to this episode To get every episode of wtf ad free go to the link in the episode description or go to WTF pod calm and click on WTF plus a reminder before we go this podcast is hosted by a Cast here's some guitar after I listen to Pink Floyd at the gym So So So So So So So So So Boomer lives. Puma lives!

Monkey in the Fond of Cat Angels everywhere.