WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1594 - Anthony Jeselnik

Episode Date: November 25, 2024

Anthony Jeselnik is back in the garage more than 13 years since the last time he and Marc talked on the mics. With many career successes and some failures in the rearview, Anthony talks with Marc about where he sees himself in the landscape of comedy today, as he releases his latest Netflix special and while both of them spend a lot of time thinking about the current perception of standup comedy. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Stuck trying to get to where I really need to be. But then I discovered lifelong learning. Learning that gave me the skills to move up, move beyond, gain that edge, drive my curiosity, prepare me for what is inevitably next. The University of Toronto School of Continuing Studies. Lifelong Learning to stay forever unstuck. All right, let's do this. How are you? What the fuckers?

What the fuck buddies? What the fucking ears? What's happening? I'm Mark Maron. This is my podcast broadcasting from a fairly bouncy room. I'm in an old Adobe in Albuquerque, New Mexico, and it's interesting to be in a classic mud house, but the walls are what they are, and this is sometimes what it sounds like when I'm out in the world doing the stuff. I came out here, as many of you know, I grew up here in Albuquerque, New Mexico.

I'll keep saying Albuquerque, New Mexico. I've gotten into the habit of buying a cheap tourist shirt every time I leave Albuquerque, New Mexico. I'm developing quite a collection of Albuquerque shirts. I don't know, I've been, I'm kind of born-again Berkey out here. There were years where I just didn't know what, you know, you'd come home, I'd see whoever I still had here, which is primarily my dad, and then you know you get this thing where, well maybe I want to get out of here as quick as possible. Some sort of indicator, some sort of a site of the traumatic incidents arc of adolescence, childhood. It's funny when you sort of transcend somehow or another, I guess it's just part of getting older,

where whatever you resented or feared or did not want to revisit in your young life becomes a thing that you desperately want to visit and revisit and and Recalibrate because I don't know man. There's something you know home is home in terms of you know what what? Created your neural pathways Environmentally it's with you forever. It's part of your heart That's so that's really where I'm at with this with this battered up, you know, interesting little city that I grew up

in. It's weird, I know. A lot of you, like, I thought you were East Coast guy. Genetically Jersey, as I always say. Genetically Jersey. I'm here to see my dad and I have a few old friends here who I saw last night now I know I kind of do this thing every time I come back here But I don't know it's something to check in with as you get older. Who do you got left man? What is your life? Who do you got left? Who do you have? Today Anthony Jeselnik is back. He was on episode 206 That's more than 13 years ago. Jesus fuck.

We've been doing this a long time. But as many of you noticed, I do have people back because the arc of this show, there's the word arc again, the arc of this show, there's literally people that had nothing going on when I first talked to them and they've had entire careers, entire childhoods have been lived listening to me. I have people that can now say that they were listening to me when they were in high school and now they're 30.

It's crazy. So he was on a long time ago. Many of you know him. He's a writer, comedian, actor. He's got a new special out on Netflix starting tomorrow. But Jezelnik is an interesting character in terms of comedy. There is something about a jokesmith. There's something about a guy whose entire persona and his entire stage presence and delivery and everything else is

really built around delivering these beautiful, well-structured, dark, kind of mind-blowing jokes and that's what he does. You know, I've known him for years. We don't hang out. I feel that he's changed a bit since I first talked to him, but he's one of those guys that what it's all about for him are these jokes, and that's a writer's mentality, but also a stand-up's mentality. And there's no way, nobody quite like him, and there hasn't been, people have tried.

He does carve out his own path, and it was good to catch up with him again. I'm back in Los Angeles at Largo on Friday, December 13th. That will be a music and comedy show. I'm gonna get the band together. But it's interesting. So, okay, so in Los Angeles, the other night, I went to see The Brutalist.

I went to a screening of The Brutalist, which is a kind of mind-blowing movie, big. It's like, I don't even know how to describe it. There's people that are able to make these thoughtful, poetic, huge movies. You know, some challenging stuff, but the scope of it was huge. I mean, I guess I would compare it probably to

There Will Be Blood in terms of what it speaks to about America, about old money, about immigration, about Jews, about benefactors, about architecture, about art, about the, it's one of these movies that it's three and a half hours long, but anyway. So I get out of the theater in Los Angeles, it's one of these movies that, it's three and a half hours long, but anyway. So I get out of the theater in Los Angeles, it's at the Vista Theater, and I just had this moment where, and I don't know if this is an age thing,

it was just this moment where I had, it wasn't even a deja vu feeling. It's just a feeling like I've been in LA a long time, on and off a long time, and pretty know, I've had a place there since, what, 2002, one way or the other. So I just walk out of the theater, and I'm just on a corner. I'm on a corner in, I guess it would be Los Feliz,

on Sunset, and Hollywood around there, somewhere around there. And in my mind, all these moments that I've been in that area throughout the entire time I've been in LA just kind of congealed into this feeling of like, what happened all that time? What happened to all that time? I mean, I'm talking what, 20 some odd years

of experiences. And when you have experiences in your life with people and with places, and if you don't see those people a lot, or you don't go to those places very often, you kind of hold those memories in a place where they're not actively alive, but when they do come alive, like being at that theater, the Vista Theater, it was closed for years. I remember when

it was kind of crappy and then they redid it and then COVID happened, it was closed. I think Tarantino bought it, but whatever the case was, I had this history with that theater and with people who I've been with over the years and seen movies there and just this moment Where you're like that was just it feels like last week It feels like fucking last week and I don't really know How to explain that i'm not really a guy like, you know, it goes by so fast It never feels like it's going by fast to me, but I guess it is It does pick up speed as you get older

But it's just interesting how you hold your life and moments in your life, they're in some part of your brain where if they're active memories and you pull them back up, you're like, yeah, I remember that like it was yesterday. Yet there's this 20 some odd year gap there. And it's just, it's a very odd feeling. It's a very present feeling to be sitting there or standing on a street and just be like,

holy fuck, all that time is behind me. All those people are behind me. All those memories are only memories. And in my brain, if they settle right in a moment, I have no idea where all that time went. I can't even put it into a linear form. It just all of a sudden feels like you've landed on Earth and more than half of your life is gone, and you have a sort of a strange collection of images

that represent that life, but it's like time, right, man? And I don't even smoke weed, but I don't guess it's not a nostalgia feeling, it's just like, holy shit dude, you know, this is now, you better dig in and fucking deal with your life and Live it for fuck's sake this episode is sponsored by Squarespace And one thing we know about Squarespace after using them to power our website for more than a decade Is that they never stop improving things when you sign up at Squarespace?

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Go to squarespace.com slash WTF for a free trial and when you're ready to launch, use offer code WTF to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. That's squarespace.com slash WTF, offer code WTF. Yeah, I guess it's just the getting old thing, but thinking about your life, and this is another thing I'm trying to kind of factor into the era we're about to enter in terms of what's the difference between the life of your mind and whatever you're dumping into it and whatever you're letting you know pull you around in terms of how you think what's the difference between that and your actual life and I think that most people's lives are very simple. You know, I mean, if you just kind of make a list

of the things you do on any given day, almost all days, you know, whatever you, however you vary it, on weekends or whatever, but if you just make a list, it's probably pretty small, pretty simple, and probably relatively manageable. And if you include in that list the times you turn on your computer or you're looking on your phone,

it would be kind of interesting. It's an experiment I'm gonna do, just because once you do that, any kind of screen, you're entering this other world that seems expansive, endless, and full of possibilities to jack your brain into either garbage or denial or avoidance or anxiety or emotions or whatever that is. But I think on some level we have to really believe that that's not the real world and

that the world we live in and who we inhabit it with and who we encounter on a day-to-day basis that is life and and I don't know how we get back to this idea because I don't know you know how often you're afforded the opportunity to do something in passing you're just a nice thing for some other person like it shouldn't be as moving as it is, but I think because we're so disconnected because of our devices and what we allow our brains to do and engage in, that the actual human experience, whether it's with an animal or with a kid, your kid or family family or just with people in passing, just even minor moments of politeness or can I help you out

or sure, I think I can tell you where that is or whatever it is. For me anyways, they kind of possess a pretty big emotional wallop. And I have to think that was sort of the way it was, that there was a sort of the way it was that there was a sort of norm of decency among people and somehow or another we've let our brains be hijacked by a bunch of garbage and information whether it's

divisive or isolating or whatever that somehow or another has trumped, yeah, I'll use that word, our ability to be reflexively decent or seek out community or other people. And I don't think there's any other way out of whatever we're experiencing now until we somehow detach from the things that are occupying and guiding our brains, because the brain's fragile mush, and whatever your principles are, or whatever your beliefs are,

or whatever you think is reality, can be just exploded, pummeled, reshaped, almost instantly, as soon as you engage with the infinite possibilities of bullshit that we expose our brains to every day. Again, I don't even smoke weed. I ran into some guy on the plane coming out here who was part of a crew of people that hung around my old mentor here in Albuquerque, Gus Blaysdale,

a playwright named Grubb, Jim Graebner. And I barely recognize him, but I was surprised that I did. And it's just kind of interesting talking about memory that he told me about this gig that he booked me on when I was first in LA, and it was some weird kind of a filmmaking festival that he ran. And he offered to fly me out and get me a car and he told me this whole story about taking me to some,

rent a rec a lot that a friend of his owned and sent me up with a car that didn't work and almost broke down between here and Santa Fe, which is where the event was and I did some live event and he was telling me this and it's almost like your brain is sort of like, you know, I had a hint of a memory, but not a full memory. And I had to excavate it as much as I could.

You know, after I ran into him, we had a long conversation about, you know, theater and film and stuff on the plane, it was great. But I had to like kind of like dig into the brain to kind of get the feeling or the sense of that memory. And it's just in bits and pieces. And I was sort of upset. I was like, am I losing it? But this is like 22 years ago. And I'm like, why can't I put all that memory together? And I realized, you know, afterwards that the one vibe that was sort of overtaking the rest was like, it was, I was full of anxiety.

It was not a great gig. The play, the thing was a fucking circus. The live event that I had to do was outdoors. And I really think that I just like some reaction to, to, to trauma of, of, of just, you know, dealing with a hellish situation that I'd gotten myself into and getting through it, that my brain was just sort of like, yeah, we're gonna just put this in a deep file of things that you kind of remember,

but the reason you don't is because not a great memory. So Anthony Jeslin came by and we had a nice talk about comedy and the stuff. His new comedy special, Bones and All, premieres tomorrow, November 26th on Netflix. And this is me and Anthony back in the garage. Look folks, we're in the midst of a global mental health crisis

and mental health needs have never been greater Awareness about mental health is growing but significant public needs for care are still going unmet CAMH is the Center for Addiction and Mental Health and with your help CAMH can remain a leader in improving mental health care Donate to CAMH from November 28th to December 3rd for Giving Tuesday, and your gift will be doubled to make twice the impact in mental health care. CAMH is building better mental health care for everyone to ensure no one is left behind. Visit camh.ca-wtf to hear stories of hope and recovery. what that means for you and for Canadians. This situation has changed very quickly. Helping make sense of the world when it matters most. Stay in the know.

CBC News. Well, why are we staying in LA then? Tell me. Stand up mostly. I mean, it just, I feel like I get the best out of myself here. And then eventually if I'm done with stand up, I might leave. I might maybe Chicago. Done with stand up. Yeah.

Do you think that way? Cause I think in terms of the hour, so if I'm like, I don't have another hour in me, then I'm done. I know, but don't you feel that after every hour? Not really. Halfway through this hour, after this tour, I was like, this might be it.

And then as I finish, I'm like, you know what? What if I do it again? Wouldn't that be great? And this is my fifth one now. So I'm like, if I could do a sixth, what would that look like? And that's fascinating to me. Well, I mean, I think that way all the time

because I'm drawing from a different well than you. Like, I have to resolve problems. Yeah. Personal. I do a little of that myself. I see it. You know, I do a little. I got like that.

Have you seen the news special? Yes, yes, yes. Like, the norm story is me like dealing with that. Right. You know, getting to meet my hero and work with him and having it be a disaster. It was like, let me fix this. Or thoughts and prayers. Talking about my Comedy Central show failing. It was like, let me fix this. Or thoughts and prayers,

talking about my Comedy Central show failing. It was like getting that off my chest. But for the most part, it's how can I help comedy? Yeah, dude. I don't like, I am fucking going out there now and I'm like, who are these people now? I don't know anybody. And when I do hear something, it's not good.

Like, I'm like, I need to stop I do hear something, it's not good. Like I'm like, I need to stop looking at the internet. I'm not really on social media. What you mean like other comics or just people? Other comics. Well, anyone can do it. Anyone can do it now. Well, now it's podcasting.

It's not so much being a comic as it is being a podcaster. Who does live appearances? I feel like I unleashed an evil on the world. But yours is different. I mean, I have a podcast, but I feel like it unleashed an evil on the world. But yours is different. I mean, yours, I have a podcast, but I feel like it's different than these other podcasts. How's it doing? Terrible.

No, we have no guests, no engagement. I don't know who listens to it. We have fans, we do make money, but it's not like, oh, we got a good new guest. They keep telling us if you had guests, this would be huge. It'd be a different thing? Yeah, but I might even quit that because I just don't like the term.

I took podcaster out of my bio. I didn't, it's weird being like an OG guy because like there was a time, like all of a sudden, like everybody has just figured out that like, well, I can sit there and talk. And now we have like just thousands of blathering white guys. It's like the zeitgeist has just become afternoon drive time radio.

It's as if podcasters, comedy podcasters figured out the algorithm. Like if you say, if you go conspiracy theory, you're getting a whole new fan base. If you play devil's advocate when it comes to politics, you're getting that fan base and they've just clicked into that. I'm not that calculating.

Whenever I flip around those podcasts, it's always like three dudes, most of the time we know at least two of them, just sitting around going like, well, this is the first time you shit your pants as an adult, and that's an hour. Yeah. And I mean, I've done all of those,

and I can't stand it anymore, because it's become like self-important. That now I'm doing this, I've done all of those and I can't stand it anymore because it's come become like self-important that now I'm doing, I'm doing this. I'm doing like, I did Tom Papa's podcast. He's a nice guy. I'm going to do Kimmel and that's it. Like I'm, I'm like, I don't want to do the rounds. I like Bobby Lee. I like Andrew Santino.

I don't want to put up with bad friends. Yeah. I don't want to go in there and do that. Yeah. That I'm just, I'm trying to avoid. Cause you don't know what's gonna happen? I kinda know what's gonna happen. I know they're just gonna try to annoy me.

I'm just gonna get annoyed. And it can be funny, me being pissed off at someone. But if I'm like building a press tour, no, I can leave that alone. They're gonna try to get you worked up? Yeah, oh, absolutely. Yeah, I remember just back in the day in New York a press tour. Oh, you mean they're gonna try to get you worked up? Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Yeah.

I remember just back in the day in New York where, you know, I was always, I do Opie and Anthony occasionally, but you just didn't know what you were gonna be part of. Yeah. That was, that's a different thing. Like, you know, am I going to be part of some racist excursion? Oh, I remember doing Opie and Anthony back in the day and it was a huge deal. Yeah. It was like, you've got to get on there.

You'd be part of the guys, one of the guys. I remember going, I was doing like a weekend at Caroline's and they had it on the list and I get there at like seven in the morning, drink a big coffee and an intern meets me and he's like shaking and he's like, I'm so sorry, they don't have time for you today. Oh no.

They can't have you on. And I'm like, okay. And I realized now they were fucking with me. They were like, fuck this guy. He thinks he's so great. Let's have him show up here at Seven AM and tell him no. And then I still went, but it was such a big deal that I went back

like a year later when I was doing Caroline's and did it again. I'll never forget the first question they asked me is, do you ever use the N word on stage? And I go, no. Like thinking it was like a trick question, I'm like, no. And then the interview like shut down where they like, they were like, oh, this guy's no fun.

And like 10 minutes later, they're like, all right, you can get out of here now. And I'm like, why is this so popular? Why is this the thing? Those people, the evolution of those people are now what has taken over. I can't, like I'm having a difficult time because I drew a line between,

I've been calling out the sort of Rogan Empire as some sort of tribal leadership problem. And then just now they're just, it's just, and I'm not putting you in a position to speak to this, but now it's just like some sort of full on bootlicking going on and facilitation of what is gonna be the fucking end of everything. And like I drew that, I publicly wrote a piece.

Oh yeah. And you know, I was relatively diplomatic, but after a certain point, someone's gotta go like, this is what's happening. It's not just comedy anymore, right? Yeah. No, I, I totally agree with you a hundred percent, you used a lot of words I did not

understand in the, in the, uh, in the off-ed piece, but I agree with you. I think they've been seduced. I think that whole crew has been seduced. By power? By, yes, by these are the people who will talk to us, the other side doesn't. And so we're going to engage and it's not even

so much the, the interview as it is the victory lap that bothers me is the, oh, we did this. Like we helped the picture with the arm around each other, you know, like new podcasts coming soon. Yeah. That's what makes me sick. If they were with these guys at all, I'd have no problem with it, but they're not. Yeah.

That just makes me think like podcasting is something I just don't want to be. I know there's a million different kinds of podcasts. I don't listen to any of them. I'd have no problem with it. But they're not. It just makes me think like podcasting is something I just don't want to be. I know there's a million different kinds of podcasts. I don't listen to any of them. But it feels like the entire sense, all of what we knew of show business, that's sort of been marginalized.

And these bigger outlets, like whoever's doing the special, they're just going to glom onto those guys because they don't give a fuck. They just want the numbers. So and now like I'm starting just to, I have to fight the urge, or I have to fight the, I don't know if it's a fear, but that part of the victory lap thing, is that, you know, if you think differently,

all of a sudden you've got to fight the position of sort of like, I'm fucking, I've been beaten. That's how, it's weird to me that to be contradictory towards that group is seen as like a betrayal. I know it's- And not like, we're all comedians. Right. We are all like free thinkers. Sure.

And you go on stage by yourself. Right. This whole team up shit. I can't stand it. Couldn't be more lame to me. And I don't understand why I have to think it's cool. Well, but also that's not why we got into it. We got into it cause we were asocial fucking weirdos that needed to find our own path.

And now it's sort of like, these are my boys. I don't want to be anyone's fucking boy. No, not at all. Never wanted to. Yeah. It makes me uncomfortable. It puts me in a weird position. But it seems like you're like me in some way that every time you get involved with a group of guys

that's doing that thing and you want to adapt because of the situation, it just feels like a personal betrayal somehow. Yes, it feels like you have a day job and you have to please your boss. And it's like, I don't have a boss. I don't know why you would get into standup comedy just so you could do whatever Joe Rogan says.

Yeah, I don't. And the thing is, like, I think about it a lot. It's just, it turns out, and I'm not saying anyone individual, but it turns out that, you know, we're all pretty self-serving. So, you and I are in a position where we don't have to do that. But some of these younger comics who may think differently or think totally, you know, in the same way we are, feel like this is how they have to do it. But I can't even imagine, you know, in the same way we are, feel like this is how they have to do it.

But I can't even imagine, you know, like, I, when I think about, like, well, people are like, would you ever do the mothership? I wouldn't even think about it. But I don't have any reason to perform for those guys. How much do I have to hate myself? But I imagine you have some crossover. Sure, I went toward the mothership

because I knew Curtis, the guy who was running the place at the time from the store, he went over there. Yeah, I know, yeah, that guy. And I was doing a couple shows on a Sunday and I went over there just for a tour. And I was like, this place is beautiful, it's great, it's set up as a great comedy club, but it's too easy. You know, it's like, you can't fail there.

I could. They just wanna hear the bad words. I'm sure they would be so happy to see you there that you would destroy. I can't imagine Joe Rogan's ever had a bad set at that comedy club. They're happy to be part of the thing. And so they were just thrilled. The only thing that makes me want to do it is that I have some bits now that are really kind of like, they're dark but they're personal but they're edgier than anything that those guys could

do. Yes. And I just wonder if I could get them into that zone and fuck with their heads. But it would take a bit of salesmanship. I wonder if it would take maybe like another year of that club being open because they're all I believe being edgy in the same way. It's not edgy, it's hack. It's hack. Yes. It's hack, it's hack.

It's become very, very, very hack. I was at the store one night, and I heard in two different rooms, two different comics, both go, I guess I gotta do my trans bit. Now it's like, no, you don't, really? There's no, where's the list? What's the requirement?

I am glad to be done with trans bits. I'm glad to have my one trans bit that I'm very happy with, and now I can never say it ever again. Never mention it. So what are your experiences out there? I mean, do you deal with, I think you've talked about it, but I mean, you've got to,

like it's sort of the Cobain problem that, you know, all of a sudden you're playing for people that you wouldn't even wanna talk to. No, I think I've been pretty good about policing my own audience. Yeah. I think in terms of, I believe that most of my ticket buying audience are conservative,

which I'm not, but my act has been the same. Sure. I've spoken my mind in interviews that no one's coming to me because they think I'm on the same political wavelength as them. They just like what you do. Yes. Because somehow or another, I think people have grown to understand

that it is a character in a way. And that you're writing for that, that you have a groove that you do. And it's shocking and surprising in the way that they want to, it's only challenging in the sense that they don't know what the fuck you're gonna say next. Yes. And they like being sort of shocked by it.

Yeah, and I have no interest in preaching to anyone about anything I just want to do my jokes With my twists. Yeah, you know, but the idea of me getting up there and being like guys We got to get out the vote is fucking insane. Like I couldn't imagine but do you did you feel that? Did we was there part of you as Anthony that was sort of like we got to get out the vote. No No, I'm like, I don't know what they could have done. I think Hillary should not have run eight years ago. But now are you looking down the barrel

at what is clearly going to be some sort of strange version of authoritarianism and thinking like, well, how does this affect me? Not really. I think I'm just, my options are to either keep going or to quit and I choose to keep going. I could take my money and retire and go live somewhere else. But I'm like, you know what?

I'm just, I'm not gonna be the resistance, but I'm just gonna keep doing what I do and hope that's enough. Well, yeah, I think you're in that zone where you are apolitical, you do do a thing, you have a point of view that works for all people in the sense that like, you know, they're not coming to you because of politics or anything else

or speaking your mind necessarily. Yeah. And it's entertainment. They're coming to see a horror movie, you know, and they don't have to agree with everything in the horror movie in order to get the jump scares and to scream and feel like you had a good time. Yeah.

And that's fine, I'll take anyone who's lucky enough to buy a ticket. But did you go to Europe? Yeah. Where did you go? I went everywhere. I went to, I did like 20 shows in Europe. I was everywhere from like London to like Cyprus.

Like I was just, I ended in Oslo. I couldn't name all the places that I went to. Did any of them have an impact on you? Did you have a good time? Oh, I had a great time. Europe was amazing. How'd you been? I had been to Europe, but not all of these cities.

But even going to Europe, last time I did Berlin, my last European tour, my first European tour, it was 100 people sitting on the floor. And this time it was like 1,400 people in a theater with my parents there, and that was amazing. You flew your parents out? They flew out themselves. They wanted to come see me in Zurich, Munich, and Berlin where they honeymooned.

They had met in Korea on an army base. My dad was a JAG officer. My mom's dad was a general. And they met, dated for five months, got married because he was getting shipped out. And so they had a honeymoon around Europe and then went and moved to Pittsburgh and had me. But they wanted to kind of see their old haunts.

And did they? Yeah. After I left to kind of see their old haunts. And did they? Yeah. After I left, they had a couple of weeks to drive around themselves and kind of remember old times. And what was it in any of these places, what was the culture difference? Did you feel like there was any lack of communication?

There were a couple of places where I'm like, oh, these people don't give a shit about trans people. It's just not a thing here, the way it would be in America or some other places. Yeah, it wasn't like upsetting. It was just like, oh, you guys don't really care about this. This isn't as edgy as it would be in America. Most shows were great.

London was amazing. Sure, where'd you play there? I forget the name of the place, but 3500 seats sold out. Yeah, that was a really fun show. Dublin, Manchester. Which boy Dublin? I couldn't tell you.

Was it a big theater or was it? It was a big, it was a big place. Yeah. Like, Oh yeah. Cause I do like that Vicar street there, but that's only like 850 or something. This was a couple, this was maybe 2000. Yeah. And it was good.

Okay. Well, UK was fantastic. Yeah. Ireland's great. Yeah. It's beautiful. Love Dublin and loved Belfast the next day. Everyone's like, Oh, oh, Dublin was great, but get ready for Belfast tomorrow. And it was just as good as Dublin.

It was so much fun. You didn't sense any difference, tension, anything? No. You just go? Do you go do the town? If I can, if I have like a day off, I like to walk around and pretend I live there. Like I had a couple of days in Amsterdam. I'm not a tourist guy.

Amsterdam's a little dirty, isn't it? Not where I was staying. You know, I kind of enjoy wandering where I was there. Like I had a couple of days in Amsterdam. I'm not a tourist guy. Amsterdam's a little dirty, isn't it? Not where I was staying. I kind of enjoyed wandering where I was wandering. What's all those canals and stuff? I remember going there as a kid and there was something sort of decadent and enchanting about it, but now it just seems to be a lot of hippie shit

and a lot of tourist stores that are weed oriented. There's certainly a lot of that, but not kind of in the area where I- Did you play at that place that like, we used to be for a circus? I don't even know. I's certainly a lot of that, but not kind of in the area where I. Did you play at that place, like it used to be for a circus? I don't even know. I played at a place, I remember this one. I remember this fucking theater.

Because it's just called the Amsterdam Theater. And then like it's 10 years old. I find this out when I get there, it's new. And it's beautiful, it's like, it's not a lot of seats, but it's like a huge theater. And it was made just to show the play, The Diary of Anne Frank, every night. And after four years, they, that business shut down. And so now it's just a beautiful theater that was made to watch The Diary of Anne Frank

and they use it for standup comedy. And those shows were, it was two sold out shows. They were sold out immediately. Yeah. And the audience was like, huh huh. And it's Dutch people too, who do not laugh. But I remember being like, this is so fucking funny, but I'm up here bombing in the Anne Frank Theater.

Like, why did you make a theater for this and then decide stand up comedy would be the next move? Yeah, how do you think you're gonna exercise that demon? It was not, we needed lower ceilings, we needed some different sounds in there, but it was a fun one. It's kinda hard to overcome the Nazi vibe. Fuck.

And Cyprus, what the hell's that like? I could barely tell you. It felt like an island. It was tropical. It was a really nice day. You know, I didn't get outside much, but the show was great. You know, people were excited to be there.

Some of these places, they're just excited that someone showed up. Did you go to Italy? No, no Italy, no France. No France, no Italy, why? Because you thought the language thing? No, it was just my agent, you know, I was gonna do this tour in April and May in Europe.

My agent gave me a bunch of dates, and I was like, oh, I can't, I might be doing this Comedy Central thing. And then that went away. So it was like, all right, here's your dates in Europe, but I was missing Milan and France, of course. But everything else was pretty much the same. Because I thought that when I went to Oslo,

I went to Oslo, I went to Sweden. What's the main place in Stockholm? Yup. Did you go? Yup. Those are great. Yeah. And pretty places.

Yeah. And everybody's attractive. Oh, everyone. I mean, walking through Copenhagen, it was like, everyone's a model. Everyone was so beautiful. And I had like 12 hours in Copenhagen. So there's some cities you just don't get a chance to see anything.

But you could have, you just have no interest? I just, I'm worried about the show. I wanna be at my best for the show that night. And that means like taking a shower, resting up, meditating, whatever I have to do. You meditate? I try to. You know, I do the TM thing that's like taking a shower, resting up, meditating, whatever I have to do. You meditate? I try to. You know, I do the TM thing that's like twice a day,

20 minutes, but I do it once a day. You've got a little thing? I took the class years and years, like 15 years. So you do 20 minutes twice a day? You're supposed to, I probably do 20 minutes once a day at most. It's basically like I can't nap, so that's the best I can do to nap.

You know, if I fall asleep for a second doing that, I feel much better. Well, tell me about it, because like, I tried to meditate during COVID, and I know my, that Lynn was, she lived by it. Twice a day, no matter what, you know, do the 20 minutes. And it shifted her whole fucking disposition. And I, the girlfriend now, she went and got the TM thing,

but never really worked it, never did it. But was there a point where you did it? I was doing it for like a year. Did you go to the class and everything? I did the class, and it was right when I got, it was like 2013 when I was doing the TV show. And I wanted something like from myself that I could just be like, you know,

for 20 minutes a day, I'm going to escape everything and go do this. And it helped for like close to a year. And then you just start half-assing it. Yeah. You know, you're kind of like, you're kind of doing it, but you're kind of thinking about something else. And then I just was like, I'm against this now.

And now I just kind of use it as I need it. It's like, it really is, it replaces it. Fuck that. Yeah. But that was it. Once you're not doing it that right, you're just like, this is stupid. Like everyone who gets into Transcendental Meditation

gets really into it. Yeah. And I was always thinking about David Lynch, because I was through David Lynch's thing. Yeah, that's what I have. And in Lynch one day in an interview said sometimes, I meditate every day, 20 minutes, twice a day. And then one time he was like, if I'm on set,

I'll get a couple minutes here. Yeah. And then I get home and I finished the meditation. I was like, oh, you're not even doing it the right way. So why am I fucking with your shit? But did you ever feel like you got to that place where you're like, I'm there? No.

See, I think that's the difference. I thought it would help me sleep. My sleep is really bad and I grind my teeth. And I was like, if I could calm myself. Really? Yes. That's why I just came from the chiropractor. Like my teeth grinding is so bad

that it goes down all through my back and it's been getting worse. At like this whole tour, I was dealing with chronic pain in my lower back. Sitting on an airplane seat was hell. Yeah. That when I got to the city, I would just lay in my hotel bed

until it was time for the show. In pain. I couldn't even exercise. Really? I was just like getting over the pain. And all the strange beds. Strange beds. Yeah.

You don't know what the fuck is gonna- A weird pillow? Yeah, it'll fuck you up. So you got this, how's the chiropractor, does that work? I'm on my third one now. I went to this guy who butchered me right before the tour. He did that thing where he pulls the leg and it fucked up my hip. And I was like, okay, gotta get rid of this guy.

And I went to some new age guy who does these weird little adjustments and that really helped, but it took a long time. Yeah. And now I'm with a guy who's just for the TMJ, the teeth grinding, who is amazing. But I've only seen, this is my third time seeing him. You've done it all, you've ground your teeth all your life? Not all my life.

It started right before I did the Donald Trump roast. I would do it sometimes when I was younger. If someone slept in my bed, they'd be like, you were grinding your teeth last night, but I felt fine. Yeah. Or I would get a mouth guard and I would fall out in the middle of the night because I wasn't grinding. And then right before I did the Trump roast

in like 2010, 2011, I really started grinding where I'm like, oh, I'm talking differently. Fucking Trump. He fucked you up personally. It was my big break and I'm like, I need this to go well. And I got a mouth guard made in the weeks I was preparing for it. And I thought when this is over, I'll stop grinding my teeth.

And then it was like, I ground so much during those, those, like that month of preparing that afterwards it's like my natural condition, like I can't relax unless I've clenched my jaw as tight as it'll go. And that's how I wake up every morning. So if I turn my head in my sleep, it fucks up my whole neck, and it just goes down my back into like my sacrum area, but it sucks. What?

I've gotten Botox in the jaw. It doesn't do anything. I've got the mouth guards, I do it all, and nothing like just fixes it. I'm like, what can you do that would just stop me from doing this? Well, have you tried to track the source of it? So it was brought on by, you know, by,

I guess it's nerves? People say nerves, but it wasn't like that's like the most nervous I've ever been. You know, and afterwards it should have gone well. No, but I mean, but you knew there was a lot at stake. Oh yes, I knew there was a lot at stake and that they say it's genetics too. My dad's always ground his teeth.

Really? You know, for his whole life. He wears like two mouth guards. That people, and it's just a thing that more and more people do now. Was that Trump roast your break? Oh yeah. I had been on TV, I'd done a couple things, but it was like, I went from performing at comedy clubs where half the audience has no idea who I am,

and then not even close to selling out, to selling out every show with everyone knowing exactly what they were getting. It changed my life completely. So it was kind of the Nikki Glaser thing. That happened to her too, I think, this last one. Nikki, I think was further, I mean, it definitely changed. I think she went to bigger places,

but she was still selling out clubs and stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but you were nowhere. I was just, I put out an album and a couple of late night appearances that maybe you would have known, but then it was literally just a sold out crowd of like, yes, we want the dark shit. Not like, oh, you're doing dark shit,

let's try to get on board. Yeah. You know, and that just completely changed everything. Oh, so they knew. Yeah. So this roasting, so how many did you do total? Three. And are you still asked to do them?

They bring it up like really far in advance, and I always say no. I'm like, it would cost so much money. Whitney Cummings tried to get me on those only fans roasts she was doing. She said, we have a budget, like what would it cost? And I was like, here's how much. Yeah.

After doing three, I was like, I never want to do this again. I never want to do it again. I love the, I love the first two that I did. Uh, the first one really was my favorite. The second one was Trump was great. Cause it was like, that was just all my stuff. And then Sheen was less than six months later. So I was like, fuck, I've got to like, I've got to top that or match that.

Yeah. And then Roseanne was just a nightmare. It was like, they tried to make it classy and then abandoned that last second. And it was just all old women on the panel on the dais. So all the jokes were kind of the same and no one cared. Like Trump changed my life. Charlie Sheen was crazy because everyone watched that, that it was like, oh, an extra level of fame.

Because he was at, that was post his meltdown. Yes, that was the biggest like roast to like timeliness that they've ever done. And then Roseanna was like, it never happened. Like it was like, it just, no one saw, I didn't move the needle at all. And I was like, okay, you know what? I'm done with this.

I've only, I've done as much roasting as I care to. And I like doing, I like judging Roast Battle. I never did that with Jeff Ross. That TV show was really fun to do. But as far as roasting goes, like I'm retired. And you could get me there. They wanted me for the Brady one, but I had been, I'd talked enough about not wanting

to do it, they didn't even ask. They were just like, we're for good. But for some reason, I'm not a huge like new roast guy I always think the deus's are too huge and and and I don't know I couldn't get through the Brady one I didn't watch it. I haven't watched one because to me it's like I know what everyone's doing But you got to see this joke and I'm like, okay, like I get it, you know, I thought Nikki did great Yeah, always watch Nikki stuff. She's great. she was great. But yeah, I don't care. It doesn't do it for me the way it did.

It used to really mean a lot to me. And just by having done it a few times, I'm like, no, I'm good. All that stuff that means a lot to you early on is fucking starts to fade, doesn't it? It should. I mean, if you're lucky. Because like,

because there's a period that we all go through where you're like, I'm a comic, I do standup comedy. And there are jobs that stand-up comics can have in show business. And you know it, because you got the opportunity to host a talk show, and it's a grind. And it's not, either you are that guy or you're not. And what was your feeling about that going away?

I mean, when that went away, when the show went away, I was thrilled. Yeah, because I haven't talked to you since before anything. I mean, the worst thing about having your own show is the amount of people relying on you for a job. Yeah. Stand up, I can be like, I'm never coming back to this place ever again, and I can feel good about it.

Right. But on this job, it was like, well, all these people are employed, if I'm employed. I remember them, my producer being like, if you come back in a couple of months, if you don't wait a year, if you come back soon, we can keep the whole crew employed. And I was like, okay. Yeah. Instead of taking a break like I needed, let's come right back. So when they canceled it, I was like, thank God that's over.

Because like either, like, cause you feel it, like, I mean, did you feel like you fit that gig? No, I felt like, uh, I felt like they put too much energy into it. Like, they was like, smile more, like, be bigger. The studio audience was huge, and it was like, it should have been half the size. I wanted to sit down to do my monologue, and they were like, no, we have the Daily Show, we have this, you've got to be standing, and you've got to walk in. Because Tosh is just standing, like,. Everything was about what someone else was doing, so I couldn't do that.

But you're also kind of this singular guy, and I don't ever get the impression that you love talking to people. No, but I enjoy jokes. I enjoy doing a little bit. I got better at the panel as it went on, but they didn't want the whole show to be panel, because it's a weekly show.

If it had been a nightly show, it would have been all panel, and that would have been fine. But I had to come up with bits, and I didn't like shooting the bits. I didn't want the whole show to be panel because it's a weekly show. If it had been a nightly show, it would have been all panel and that would have been fine. But I had to come up with bits and I didn't like shooting the bits. I didn't like any of that. The monologue wasn't as much fun as I thought it was gonna be. But I was relieved when that went away.

I loved doing good talk. It was kind of like a sillier version of this. I really enjoyed that. And I'm sad the second season got COVID-ed. But I hated the Jessel and Nick offensive. There was some good work in there, some truly good work in there, but I didn't like kind of the schedule

and definitely didn't like having the bosses. And then it was the passive aggressive notes. It wasn't just like, don't do this, do this instead. They'd be like, don't do this story. And I'd be like, give me a story to do instead. Cause we're looking for anything here. There's not a lot, and they'd be like, you find something. I'm like, just tell me what to make instead. Because we're looking for anything here. There's not a lot. And they're like, you find something. I'm like, just tell me what to make a joke about,

and I'll make the joke about it. But if you tell me just don't do that one, then we're doing that one. You know, like I didn't like- Yeah, well, producers have some ideas. What's going on? What's in the till? Yeah, they never did.

Culturally. It was just, please don't do this. Well, it's just so funny because I remember like the first time I talked to you, like you had like somewhat a different disposition, I think. I feel like then, because I think we broke it down to you know we talked about you know where you grew up and all that stuff, but it really felt that what was at the core of your reason for your ambition was you know fuck you. And it feels like that's still there.

Oh yeah. Yeah. I mean, I call myself, I feel like an older punk rocker. Like I'm a 46 year old punk rocker who's kind of like learned a little bit. Right. But I've got my punk bona fides, but I don't, and it's not what I'm thinking about every day.

It's not what I'm listening to in the morning. Yeah. You know what I mean? I'm a little more chill. But hasn't your life gotten bigger? I can get about every day. That's not what I'm listening to in the morning. You know what I mean? I'm a little more chill. A little more chill out. But hasn't your life gotten bigger? I mean, like then, I mean, like I remember the moment, I think you were doing the talk show

and we talked at the store sometimes, and you're like, I'm never flying economy again ever. Yeah. But that's like a big change, but that's just one, but hasn't your life gotten bigger? Don't you feel better about yourself? You feel better and you feel less, there's that stress of like,

am I gonna fuck this up, goes away. When you have your first season of a TV show, you're like, I need this to work because I don't want this to be my only thing I ever do. You know, where you audition for something and you don't get it and you're like, oh shit, like I need to make sure. Like I auditioned for Weekend Update and didn't get it and you're like, oh shit, like I need to make sure, like I auditioned

for Weekend Update and didn't get the job obviously. And was just like. Wow, that feels like that would have been good. I made it a contest. Like I was, it was me by myself. What year was that? It was the year before Colin Jost and Michael Che started doing it together.

It had been Jost for like half a season because Seth Meyers left. And then they were auditioning Jost with like 10 different people. It was Jost and a person. Okay, that's the plan. And then it was me by myself. Yeah.

And it was like Jimmy Fallon was like, why don't you bring Anthony in? Have him do it by himself. And I had my own jokes and I like took it really seriously and nailed it. And I'm like, I'm a terrible auditioner, but I nailed this. But I made it a difficult decision.

And Colin Jost couldn't have been more polite when I showed up there. Everyone was great, but didn't get the job and was so upset. Not just that I didn't get it, but that I came close. But I was like, I have to make sure that my next hour is so good that I'm glad I didn't get the job.

And also that you don't have to do anything. That was the big shift is like, I couldn't understand. Like there were periods there where I'd watch your career because I'm a fan and I like the new special, it's great. But like there were periods after the talk show, I'm like, what the fuck is he gonna do? But ultimately you just, you're stand up and you built that audience.

So you don't have to fucking do any of that shit anymore. No. I mean, is there something you'd want to do? I really love doing Good Talk. I would love to come back to it. Which one was that? It was a show. We only did six episodes where I would interview a comic for 30 minutes and it was like a little

bit of like, why do you do what you do? And a lot of just silly, like, is this Tim Allen grunting or is it something else? You know, like, stupid. we did one you would have loved. It was, is this a 16-year-old girl's Pinterest or Dane Cook's Instagram? And- I was gonna say you had games. Yes, like, weird, but it was just a silly, fun

kind of talk thing to do that was actually fun to shoot, fun to write. The Just Like a Fence wasn't fun to write. You know, it was like stressful all week. It felt like doing SNL. Yeah. You know, you had to do it because it was airing at, you know, we had to tape every Tuesday.

And you had segments that had to be refilled. And you didn't have, you know, you needed to get guests. Mm-hmm. I mean, when you know you're just going to be hanging around with a comic, I mean, half of the work's done already. It's so much easier. It's, you know, the studio audience. What happened in that show? We were doing a second season.

We had written the entire second season, booked it, and a week before we shot it, COVID hit. Shut everything down, and then they canceled everything. What network? And they fired everybody. Comedy Central. Really? Yeah. Does that even exist anymore?

Barely. It's like a... It's a South Park and Workaholics, right? And the Daily Show. And they still, they could do something, they could sell it off and do something with it, but it still has a couple of, a couple of things where they might just fold it into Paramount Plus and it's dead. Oh, that's what they did?

They might. It's still like, it's still up in the air. It's still up in the air, but they're just doing office reruns. But they did like four pilots at the end of last year. Yeah. And they were like, we need to pick up two of these because of the shareholders. Like we have to do two new shows. And so I was one of the four shows.

Yeah. And then they sold the network and we're like, all right, we don't have to do anything. Fuck it. So who knows? But you don't want to act? I would. If someone was like, Hey, I've got this part. I'd love for you to play it.

Like I'm there. Yeah. And that never happens. It's happened like twice and I've done it both times. You were one of them. Oh yeah, for Marin. But usually it's like, I haven't auditioned. The last role I auditioned for was Schmidt on The New Girl. Remember that show, The New Girl?

Kinda. It was like, I mean, this was like 15 years ago where I remember I'd come in and I really worked on this audition. I worked with a coach and I do it and they go, that was great, can you do it faster? This is a sitcom. And I go, no.

Like I don't talk faster. Like this is the, if you want me to be funny, this is how I talk. And they just laughed at me. Cause at that point I'm a known person. They're like, okay, like you can leave, but that's funny. And I never auditioned again. If you want me, I'll do it, but.

Do you know how lucky you are that you don't have even remotely have any people pleaser in you? I'm grateful. I feel like all the work I've put in the last 22 years now has gotten me to this place where I truly don't have to please anybody. But I feel like people look to me for respect. You know, you've been around long enough

that you get this too of like, hey, that was good, Mark, right? You know, right? And they're like, I don't want to watch your dumb act. I didn't see a fucking second of that. But see, like, I guess, like, there are some people I'll watch, for at least for a little while. You know, like, I was on a show with Taylor Tomlinson

the other night, and I think she's fucking great. She's great. I mean, she's like the real deal. And she was nervous to perform for me. I'm like, in front of me, I'm like, what are you talking about? I love you. What do you, just don't worry about it.

Yeah. Why are you scared about this? I used to be the same way though. You never had that? Oh, of course. Fuck dude. If I used to, I used to kick guys out of the cellar. Like if I was going out the cellar

and a tell was in the room, I'd be like, can you just get out of here? I'd want to figure out how to do this. I had to go, I remember going to the cellar and this is when I was working on Fallon. I lived in New York for a couple of years and I go to the cellar and they're like, Stephen Wright's here.

Yeah. And I've never met Stephen Wright. Yeah. He's obviously my idol. Yeah. And I'm like, oh my God, Steven Wright, I can't wait. He's gonna see me and be like, oh my god. And I walk out there and there's four people in the audience.

And one of them is Steven Wright. And I just fucking bombed for 15 minutes. But he was nice, right? And then walk out and he walks out, right after the next comic is on stage, he walks out and she goes, you were funny. But in a way that you had to say it, I was like, this doesn't count. But he's reached funny. But in a way that like you had to say it,

I was like, this doesn't count. But he's reached out to me in the last couple of years and said hello and I like your stuff. That life makes sense as a good comparison. Cause it seems like he was just always Steven Wright, didn't change anything, kept his audience, did a couple of acting bits here and there when it fit. And now he just lives in the woods.

Yeah, but it's the output. I want more output. He put out like three hours maybe of total of comedy. I'm like, what if, and I'm sure he has an hour now that if he goes on the road, he has that hour. I want to write, do as many hours as I can before I die. I want to give as many great jokes as I can. Hopefully every special has a handful of brilliant jokes,

one great bit, you know, you get that. And as many as I can do of that, I want to do that. The older guys, there was no reason to have that kind of output. You know, there was no reason to put out specials. Yeah, but I think like I've done, fuck man, four or five records, like four or five, I've done like 10 hours.

Sure, but like how much of it matters? And I'm not saying this is an insult, but like people don't know I did an album. People don't know I did a Comedy Central special. But doesn't that fucking suck? Because like when I think about it, you know, I'm still relatively unknown. You know, I mean, people in terms of the big picture,

like I'm still a discoverable thing. And I have all these hours that some of them were great. There are jokes that took me six months to write and I did them once and they're gone. And there's part of me that thinks, do you ever think like, you know, to go back, well, I mean, you're younger than me, but sometimes I think like, I should just go through them

and just, you know, do a greatest hits thing just because the jokes are so good. I but sometimes I think like, I should just go through them and just, you know, do a greatest hit sing, just because the jokes are so good. I remember Jimmy Carr was like, you should do your first album as a Netflix special. Just do those same jokes, but do it because, you know. Because no one knows them. In 2009, when I did the album, you couldn't do,

it wasn't, the idea of doing a special was lost. I used to wonder if that had been a special, would my career be further along, if I had waited until Netflix came along. Because people don't know I did anything on Comedy Central. If I talk about the roasts, they're like, what are you talking about? And albums, they don't know anything,

who knows about that? No, but I go back and listen to those, that first album, that first special on Comedy Central, and I can't listen to it. I almost have a panic attack at how bad I think it is now. Oh, because of the way you structure jokes now? I mean, it's the same structure. I just think I've gotten better.

I think everything about it has improved. Then I see some fans will say, you know, I think his first album was the best and it's all downhill from there. I still like it, but he started out strong and has gotten weaker. I think it's the opposite. I think I started out at my weakest

and have gotten better. I don't wax nostalgic for the old stuff, the way that some people do. I don't either gotten better. I don't wax nostalgic for the old stuff the way that- I don't either. I don't wax nostalgic about anything other than like, there's a couple of bits I did and if I'm going to do a bit and commit to it, it's a long bit. There's one bit I did about thinking I was on a plane that was going to crash, that I only did on the John Oliver comedy hour thing. It took me like a half a year to get it up and going. gonna crash that I only did on the John Oliver comedy hour thing.

And it took me like a half a year to get it up and going. And after it was on, there's part of your brain that's sort of like, well, that's out. That's done. And it's just gone. So I regret people not seeing these bits. Because of a John, I mean, I burn things. Everything's been in each hour.

There's nothing that I've left out, unless it was like a roast joke that I would leave in each hour. There's nothing that I've left out, unless it was like a roast joke, that I would leave in a roast, but otherwise it can be on John Oliver and in the hour. But once it's through the hour, it's done. But you're always evolving and talking about your life, so could you even go back and do those old bits? No, because I'm not worked up like that anymore.

But I do find that I'm kind of like that, other than me getting older, my life worked up like that anymore. But I do find that I'm kind of like that, other than me getting older, my life hasn't changed that much. I have a couple of new cats. And I think I'm thinking about things a little differently. Like right now, I did all the fascist shit, the last special, it was all in there. The Trump stuff is all in there.

And I was ahead of the curve on that. And now what do I do now in terms of how I'm dealing with this? And I got to figure that out, because that's the prison I'm in. I speak from a personal point of view. So what am I doing for my sad, anxious fans who need a little help?

It's very, when you look at your fans, it's so funny to me, like, I watched the people come into the theaters that I'm doing, and they're just like, you know, they seem like decent, It's very, when you look at your fans, it's so funny to me. Like, I watched the people come into the theaters that I'm doing, and they're just like, you know, they seem like decent, you know, thoughtful, you know, creative people. Some of them are, you know, middle-aged, some of them are a little younger,

but they're all just sort of, I can tell what they are. They're sensitive people that are nervous about things and they want some relief. Like, now going into this new administration, I'm like, how am I gonna make them feel better? You know, like my shows start to feel like, this is safe space, we're gonna talk freely here. But do you think like if you just unplugged

and just didn't know anything about what was going on with the administration, you could still come up with an hour that would do that for people without making yourself miserable? Yeah, I think so. And I've been pretty clear in terms of the last two hours. I'll do like 15, 20 on that, and then 40 on the other things.

Yeah. The bigger pieces. But I don't know, man. I think what's really getting to me is that the gloating, like you said earlier, I just know they're out there. And I know they're in the room. And they're like, hey, loser. Didn't go your way, did it?

It bothers me. You think they think that about you? I mean, you had the OG original podcast. Yeah. Like, do you have a Patreon? No. Yeah, see, I think it's embarrassing to have a Patreon. Yeah.

I would never, not in a million years, these guys are getting so much presence. I didn't even have a YouTube presence. I have no YouTube presence. Yeah, but you've made so much money off of your podcast. Yeah. And done such great work. Right. These guys can't possibly be looking down at you. I have no YouTube presence. Yeah, but you've made so much money off of your podcast and done such great work. These guys can't possibly be looking down at you.

Well, what they do is if you quantify success with money and the type of money they're talking about and the type of fame they're talking about in terms of winning or clicks and that kind of shit, I'm in a different model, dude. Sure. And that sort of thing about like, when you talk critically about something, you're just jealous.

I'm like, no, it's not, it's got nothing to do with jealousy. When people say, I'm like, who would I trade places with? Tell me who you think I would switch seats with on this fucking bus in a million years. Like there's no way. I think like good for you. Oh, this, this podcast, your podcast, Patreon, pandemic money. That's great. All that shit goes away. Yeah.

People don't understand overexposure all of a sudden. People don't understand, you know, leave them wanting more. That I think if I was getting out of college now, and I've talked to comics about this, I would not want to become a comedian because of what it is now. And there's some guys, you see the crowd work clips,

I'm like, you're young kids, you kind of have to do this, I guess. But there are people who are my age doing this podcasting shit that I'm just like, I hate you. I hate that we are considered to have the same job. Yeah, I mean, look, I understand in terms of like, you know, what I set out to do with this thing

and what it evolved into and the fact that we're still an audio podcast. I feel like we're in the era of television and I'm still on the radio on some level. But a lot of my listeners are like that. But to speak to what you're talking about though, there is no overexposure now because amateurs are the winners.

That if people, it seems to me that audiences feel like if they kind of know the guy, that that's enough. So it'll evolve not like a show, like it'll evolve like, oh, this is the guy we listen to twice a week, and he's going to tell stories that we understand from what he was like. And it's not even really comedy. I think you can get too big to fail,

but I think there will be a backlash building as you overexpose yourself too much. Yeah? I think I'm lucky in that I put out a special. I can promote it and you'll see me in five years. Like I've got to write the new hour. I've got to go on the road. That's what the last one took.

And that was the pandemic kind of knocked me off for a year. Usually it would take a year or two to write it. A year of comedy clubs and a year of theaters and then the special comes out. So it's like, it takes a long time. Where some of these guys announce one tour after the next and just keep on taping these specials. It seems insane to me. But see, that's, man.

I mean, whatever comedy was when I got into it, or whatever I think comedy is, it's definitely different now. I mean, it seems like there is a group of guys, primarily, that are, you know, it behooves them to even churn out garbage every year. It's a cash grab culture, you know, and it was always sort of that way.

If you hit a certain level, like you're saying, and you've got a window of opportunity to capitalize on it, you do it because you know it's not going to last forever. And I kind of get that, but the type of money and the type of scope of it is, and I really think it's more of a, I don't even know why people go to arenas to see comedy. I would never even think to do it.

It seems, I don't know why people go to arenas to see bands. Exactly. It's a terrible way to see anything. I get why the comics wanna do it. I don't understand how Madison Square Garden has become this mythic. Like a new club. Like I got to do, I was lucky enough to do, not Sydney Opera House, so even I got to do that too,

but Carnegie Hall. Yeah. I was so happy. Yeah, I did that. And I go in there, they're like, next time you come to the New York Comedy Festival, we'll have you do Madison Square Garden. Yeah.

And I was like, why do I give a fuck about Madison Square? Like, this is it for me. Carnegie Hall. This is was like, why do I give a fuck about Madison Square? This is it for me. This is the coolest place I could be in, and it was amazing. I loved it. From now on, I wanna do just nicer theaters. I don't ever wanna do an arena ever,

but a nice theater is a lot of fun for me. Well, that's who won coming out of COVID and coming out of the shift in entertainment dollars, the guys who won were the fucking promoters and the booking agents, because they started to realize they got this racket going. Why not just keep going bigger and bigger? That's how you win.

Yeah. I don't know. If I really think about whether it's jealousy or not, it's like, I don't know what I would do in an arena. I've done shows, like I did comics come home at the, you know, for Leary at the Garden in Boston. It was fine, but it's not my jam, dude. No.

I like to bring it in. Yeah. I don't like to just like. I did it for Chris Rock in Europe. Did like 112 minutes, it was fine. But I was like, I wouldn't wanna do this. But your jokes. Even for 15 minutes. But they can play, I wouldn't want to do this. But your jokes can, 15 minutes. But they can play, you can play to that though.

You're working packets. Yeah, I mean, I could do it. It's just not nearly as fun as just a beautiful, I like the beauty of the theater. The arena just seemed, everyone looks uncomfortable. You know, it's like they're all crammed in. Like everyone's trying to find their seats. Like it just, everyone's got their phone in bags.

They're all mad about that. Like, I just don't like that. I don't want that to be part of my system. It's like the same with merch. I don't sell merch after shows. I have a thing where it's like a QR code where you can click on it and you can buy it on your phone and I'll pay for the shipping to get to you.

Because I don't want to carry a box of fucking shirts in. And some guys have like a line out the door and they're selling everything from match books to sweatshirts and they meet everybody and they make more from the merch than they do from the shows. But I just don't wanna be a salesman. But that's a whole other job.

Yes. I haven't sold merch in years. I'm also not greedy. I'm good. I'm good. I put out the merch, I'm like, if you want a shirt, I can see how you would want a shirt like here. But I don't want to have to do this.

You have it on stage with you, the QR crew? Never. They might put it up before. I used to do a thing where I'm like, I've got shirts out there. And then someone was like, hey man, it's such a great show. Why do you diminish it by promoting your shirts at the end? And I was like, you got it.

You are right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm gonna stop doing this. So like how annoyed are you about, at this point, like do things shift now that Trump is one and there's this idea that these pseudo free speech warriors now have the ability and the incentive to just do their shitty jokes without reprisal,

how bothered are you still by it? Not really. Yeah. Because they're bad jokes. Like if they were great jokes, and I was like, oh my God, that's such a great joke. I don't agree with what they're saying, but what a great joke.

Maybe that would bother me. But I'm like, if this is what you want, you know, if you want to eat McDonald's every day, I'm not gonna argue with you. I'm over here cooking up steaks, and that's just all I can focus on, is what I'm doing. But if you want that shit, okay.

I just can't imagine being a part of that group. I can't imagine I'm gonna hang out with those people. Did you ever feel like you were being, like they were trying to draw you in? No, I mean, you've known me for a long, I've never been a, hey, let's hang out. I think that's why we're friends. It's because we've never once been like,

let's go do something. I don't know what we would do. Yeah, it's just like, I wanna, I'll see a couple minutes of the guy who goes before me and I'm gone right after the set. Like, I don't wanna hang out. I don't wanna do any of that shit. I'll hang out a little, you hang out a little.

A little, yeah. Because like, you know, I start to realize that being backstage at the comedy store or in the hallway, it keeps me kind of engaged. And there's a couple people I like to watch. There are people that make me laugh. And it's part of my social life. I don't stay there that long.

But I like to just hang out. And you've hung out before. You were there when Burr lost his shit at me. You remember we were in the dressing room and Burr started going after, I remember being like, there was a moment there where you were sitting there and Burr was sitting there and he just goes on, he just starts yelling about due process. He was talking about a comic who got canceled and he was yelling at me. And I, cause I had this moment where I'm like, well, Jeselnik's there, I can't just take this.

I got to fucking stand up for myself. I'm like, what the fuck you, and we were going at it. And it didn't really go anywhere. And then he, you know, we, someone wanted to take a picture and he kind of apologized and you got to deal with that with Bill where, you know, you have these outbursts and he's like, hey, I'm sorry, man, I'm sorry. See, when Bill does the outburst, I just take it

and I just think of all the things that I would have said. But I'm just like, get it out of your system. It's happened once or twice, but I'm like, just go, Bill. Oh really, you don't even know. You going through something? Yeah. No, because if you've played devil's, if you just say anything, it just amps them up even more

that I'm like, you're going through something. He's always amped up. Whatever you're yelling about, you're not really mad about that. I'll let you get this out of your system. It's such a relief when he's just okay. Where he's like either tired or just sorta like

wants to talk about music. But a lot of times like, you know, he'll walk into the place like, here we go. I'm like, I didn't even do anything. I didn't say anything. So when you think about like, cause I think about stopping every year. I mean, I did a whole tour that was like,

this might be the last time. Cause I don't, I don't ever know where the hour's gonna come from, but it comes. But like, I do think about like stopping. What do you think about doing if you stop? I think I would, I would have to be able to write at least a decent novel. If I wrote a book, I like, you know, I know you read the new Sally Rooney book that came out a few months ago,

but in her interview, she was like, I don't care how the book is received. The reward is that I get to keep writing. I get to be a writer. So I've written enough good books that are popular that I don't care about this new one. Like, I'm happy that people will like it and buy it, but I'm already working on the next one that I enjoy the work.

I enjoy actually writing the new hour more than I do, like, being on tour. It's like problem solving. Kind of. Yeah, it's like, you're putting in the work. You know, you're working with the soil. You're pulling something out of nothing. And I just like, after doing it the sixth time now,

will be even more gratifying. You know, and I like to see where that comes from. And if on the side, I might try to write a book, just to keep myself writing on days where I'm like, the jokes aren't coming. And I'd like to do some longer form. Have you done long form? I tried to do, I pitched a book

after The Jessalynic Offensive got canceled. I was like, I fuck this, I just want to write a book. And then I got an agent. You pitched it to who? I didn't pitch to anyone yet. I got an agent and he was like, here's my idea and he was like, great, I can easily sell that.

I can get you this much money, write 25 pages of it and send it to me. And I got five pages in and I was like, this sucks, I hate this, I'm going back to stand up. It's a lot, dude. That if I had, if I really made myself write like a novel, you know, like a story, if I made myself do it, then maybe, but even then,

I think I'd still enjoy getting on stage. Like I still love, I loved, I was in pain for most of this tour, but every time I was on stage, I was happy. Yeah, I know, there's something about it, like to be on stage for people who wanna see you, that's pretty great. Cause you have a freedom, you can kind of open up.

And you also feel just how it grows. You know, this tour was a bit double the size of my previous one and I had no idea. We didn't know until, because like the clips, you know, TikTok and Instagram, taken off so much, that I kind of doubled what I expected to do. So that was gratifying. So even to go to the idea of going back out

and seeing how much bigger it gets. And once it starts shrinking again, maybe that's when I'm like, you know what, fuck this. Yeah, I think I'm doing all right with sales. I gotta go out, I had to put off the tour to do this movie and now I gotta go out in January to kind of get it back in shape to do the HBO special. And then I don't know, man.

I don't know. I don't know. You don't like, there's nothing that. Are you off the fucking nicotine? No, I'm still on it. What are you doing? I've got these things. What do you have?

I've got the things I gave you. The on's? Yeah. You're still on those? Yeah. You don't like those zins? I never tried Zin. I just never like, and like, you know, Tucker Carlson's, I'm not going to sway me into

going to Zins, but yeah, I just, I had my assistant buy a ton of these before I went to- The Fours? Yeah, before I went off to Europe and I had like just the first thing on. Yeah, I remember that. You still have more? Yeah, but I mean, once I'm done with these, I'm done with it. Really? Yeah. It just gotten gross. I'm just like, you know, I did it for two years on the road. I'll go back to the lozenges, you know, something that's-

Dude, it's like, I don't know. Like, I've got two in my mouth right now. I need to misbehave in some way. I don't drink anymore. I got to smoke a little weed and I like this. I had quit, I was off like two weeks. And then I started the theater tour and I was starting in New Orleans.

It was so goddamn hot that I was like dying. And my brother had some of these on nicotine things and I was like, give me one of those. And it made my whole day better that I was like, you know what, for the tour, let me just have this. Yeah, the on's are just, the packets are too small. The only reason I like the zins are bigger. They kind of stay lodged better.

Those on's, I'll lose them. I'm like, where is it? I've never tried a zin, but maybe I will. But I can feel it in my gut, like I'll go to the dentist and they'll be like, your gums look, don't look great. So I'm like, okay, let me knock this off. What are they saying about them? They look.

I mean, they look like inflamed. You know, and it's like, here, we're gonna give you this treatment, like you're fine. They're not like, we're worried about you, but I know what's doing it, so. Yeah, my gums have always been fucked up and I'm always worried about them because they were always recessed.

I mean, I'm still dealing with the teeth grinding thing that I'm like, one day. That hasn't affected your gums? Because my bite, the guy said it affects my gums. I think it's affected my bite for sure and I think it must be doing something to them that I could never get veneers, or any of that dental shit people get.

Just because I would crush right through it, the way I sleep. What, have you thought about getting them? No, none of that's ever occurred to me just because of what I've got going on with my grinding. How long are you in town for? Forever. I mean, I go home for Christmas, but I'm, my, the tour is done.

Tour is done. So what are you gonna start going to the store again? I'm gonna start going to the store in the Improv and Largo probably in January. I've got about 40, 50 jokes right now that like I haven't looked through to see are these even worth trying out? But I think I might go to Largo for a little bit.

Going to the store, it still feels like, like I'm the name on the marquee. And if I'm going out and just reading jokes, I don't like doing that. But I don't really know what the alt shows are anymore. I could just say, I can call Flannie at Largo and be like, hey, what do you got? Like, let me jump up in front of the Sklark brothers.

Or you could just do, like you could do shows at Dynasty. I don't wanna drive to Dynasty. I'm lazy. In Koreatown? Yeah. It's too much? Yeah, I did it once. That's it?

Yeah. I go try to work out hours there. It's almost like anonymous or the Elysian. Are you so once I have enough, once I have like 20 minutes I'll do my own Largo show when that's where I work out like everything I got. Yeah. And I'm trying to work on like a longer form story

that might be the place to do it. But I feel like if I'm going to the store, there's like a pressure on me at the store. There's a pressure on me to improv, unless I'm like just dropping in. I hate the drop-in system. But I'll be getting up in January. I remember like there was a point where,

and I always think about it, as a shift in your demeanor, was years ago we were in the store, there was talk of it closing, the store closing, and you were like, who gives a fuck, it's just a comedy room. And I'm like, but it's a comedy. And you're like, I don't give a fuck.

But I think you've shifted a little bit. I don't know how much I've shifted. You love the store. I love the store, but I'm getting, there are things I love about the store versus the store. I love the store, but I'm getting, like, there are things I love about the store versus the improv. I don't ever go the improv. I like that the improv, you can kind of get in and get out a little easier. Like the parking lot is like a block away.

So you can kind of just park, go in right in, right in, do your set and get out. Whereas the store, you've got to pull into that lot. You've got to walk through the gauntlet of open micers. You know, you've got to see everybody the gauntlet of open micers. You know, you've got to see everybody. You got to talk to the employees. But what about the room, man? The room.

I love the main room, but I haven't been in so long that I've heard it's like a different thing. I've heard people aren't happy in the main room. Really? Because they're doing two shows. Oh yeah, that early one, that late one, yeah. And the late show doesn't sell, but they split the money up in between the two.

It's not all one money now. It used to be all one money. Like, you know, the night was, everyone got paid over the arc of both shows, and I think what's happened is the people who were on the late show get the percentage of that show, and the people on the early show get the percentage of that show. I think, you might be right,

I think it's the opposite of it. Used to be you got it for that one show and now they're combining them. Oh. And now people are mad because they're like, I'm doing the early show, but I'm getting no money. And it's not that I'm doing it for the money, but I love that main room vibe.

The vibe, yeah. I know I wasn't a big OR guy, but I would do it to work on stuff, but I love the main room. But you like the improv. I do, and the improv comes and goes. I didn't do the improv for years. Cars used to get robbed in that parking lot.

And then started going back, Rita was like, please come in. I'm like, I've been loving it since then. There's something about, like I have a beef, not with the Hollywood improv in particular, but the operation that books all the other improvs. Sure. And it's a personal thing.

That time with the funny bone. I haven't done a funny bone in 15 years. What's the beef? I got in a fight with the guy Dave Strupp. Yeah, I remember that guy. Books, the Columbus funny bone. I get into town Wednesday night, and this is before, this is maybe like right after the roast.

Yeah. But I'm still like doing clubs, but I sold out the weekend. I get in on Wednesday night at like 11 o'clock and no one's there. And my only contact is Stroop and I call him and he's like, hello? I'm like, yeah.

He's like, oh, I thought you were coming in tomorrow. I'm like, you thought I was coming in after the first show of the weekend? I'm like, I'm gonna take a cab to the hotel and he goes, no, I didn't book your hotel tonight. I gotta come get you. I'll be there in an hour. And I'm like, the fuck?

Ooh, I waited an hour, and it's now like 1 a.m. Oh, so your first show was Thursday? Yeah. Okay. So he takes me to the hotel once in a week, and he's like, I've gotta take you to this one, because the one I'm putting you in isn't available tonight. So you're gonna be in this one,

I'll pick you up for radio tomorrow, and I'll take you to the other hotel. And I'm like, all right, man, we get in the car, and he's like, oh, and by the way, your opener you brought out? She's not opening. I have an opener. It's not in your contract that you get an opener. And I'm like, what is going on? Why are you being a dick to me? Yeah.

You've been a dick this whole time. What's happening? Yeah. And he's like, well, probably shouldn't tell you this, but your agent and I got into beef about his last client who was through here, kind of raked me over the coals. So I'm taking it out on you. And I was like, uh-huh. And I called my agent and I was like, I want to get in a plane right now. And he's like, don't punish your fans, do the shows.

I'll talk to Dave and tell him to like leave you alone. And I didn't speak to him the whole weekend. And at the end he was like, are we good? And I was like, I'm never doing any of your clubs ever again. And I have not. I don't know if he's still there, but I have not done a funny thing. He was like the owner, wasn't he?

I think he's just the manager. Just the manager? Yeah. Well, you don't have to do comedy clubs anymore, really. I like them. Yeah, me too. I like doing them. That Columbus room was all right.

I don't like the malls, and even that are in a mall, but I do like, I love the improvs. I love Stand Up Live is cool. And what's the, there's a new one. And Phoenix? Yeah. Yeah, that's good. I love the improvs. I love Stand Up Live is cool. And what's the, there's a new one. Ken Phoenix? Yeah. Yeah, that's good.

I love the big ones. And there's a new one that's like, Spokane has one. Helium? That's not, is it a helium? I don't know. I don't know if it's a helium. Oklahoma City. Yeah, I don't know.

They're all the same color, but I liked, I enjoyed those. Oh, this is a new one. Like they, it's got like a weird name, like a rattlesnake or something weird. I don't know. I don't know. They're all the same club, but I liked, I enjoyed those. Oh, this is a new one? Like they, it's got like a weird name, like a rattlesnake or something weird. I don't know. I don't remember. But there's a new chain. Yeah.

All right. Yeah, they're pretty cool. Well, great special. Thank you. Good talking to you. Thank you, always a pleasure. There you go, Jeselnik, still at it, still pushing the envelope.

Bones and All premieres on Netflix tomorrow. Hang out for a minute, folks. Look, folks, we're in the midst of a global mental health crisis, and mental health needs have never been greater. Awareness about mental health is growing, but significant public needs for care are still going unmet. CAMH is the Center for Addiction and Mental Health, and with your help, CAMH can remain a leader in improving mental health care.

Donate to CAMH from November 28th to December 3rd for Giving Tuesday, and your gift will be doubled to make twice the impact in mental health care. CAMH is building better mental health care for everyone to ensure no one is left behind. Visit camh.ca-wtf to hear stories of hope and recovery. Right now you've heard about Airbnb and how you can make some extra money while you're away. But did you also know you can host on Airbnb and have someone else take care of all the details for you?

If you're going away for a long trip, an Airbnb co-host can handle all the hosting duties. These are high quality local co-hosts who create the listing for you, manage your reservations and send messages to your guests. And you'll still make some cash while you're away. It's easier than ever. Find a co-host at airbnb.ca slash host. Hey, we've got the latest Ask Mark Anything episode tomorrow for full Marin subscribers. We've done 17 of these so far and you can still listen to all of them as part of the full Marin.

In too real while imitating Mick Jagger, you fell flat on the floor. It was among the funniest things I've seen on stage. How much practice, if any, did that move require? A lot of practice. I had to do it a lot of times for the timing of it. You know, I'm not naturally a physical comic, so when I decide to do a big piece of physical comedy, I do have to rehearse it a lot. Like, not unlike the bat bit at the end of From Bleak to Dark, I had to figure out the timing. I had to figure out how many times I'm going to hit myself in the head with the bat. You know, the end of from bleak to dark. I had to figure out the timing I had to figure out how many times I'm gonna hit myself in the head with the bat

You know the pacing of the reaction being hit with the bat and it was the same with falling down When do I fall down? How do I fall down? How do I not hurt myself? What's the timing on the fall? So yeah, it was all thought out It was not a random thing and I had done it, you. And there is sort of, once you lock in to the physical comedy thing, there is a timing you have to work out. So it did take many times to make that exactly work. Make sure you're signed up to hear my new answers tomorrow.

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