WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1610 - Bill Burr

Episode Date: January 20, 2025

Bill Burr is trying to put things to bed. Whether it’s the anger he’s held onto throughout his life, or the sadness from he’s uncovered from his childhood, or even his old tensions with Marc, Bill’s been working to move on from the past. Bill and Marc talk about reaching the age where it’s time to put up or shut up, staying calm during chaotic moments, and taking stock of losing many of their peers. They also discuss Bill’s upcoming Hulu special and his Broadway debut in Glengarry Glen Ross. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Helping make sense of the world when it matters most. Stay in the know. Download the free CBC News app or visit cbcnews.ca. Hey, folks, it's 2025 and Squarespace has been a sponsor of WTF for more than a decade. But this isn't the same Squarespace that we used way back when we made WTFpod.com. It's a Squarespace for today's needs. So you can create your best online presence and keep up with the latest technology. Design intelligence is one of Squarespace's newest features, combining two decades of industry-leading design expertise with cutting-edge AI technology

to help you build a beautiful, more personalized website. Head to squarespace.com slash WTF for a free trial, and when you're ready to create your new digital identity, use offer code WTF to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain That's squarespace.com slash WTF offer code WTF All right, let's do this. How are you? What the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fuck Knicks? What's happening? I'm mark marron. This is my podcast welcome to it. I am recording this on Sunday. I am in

Denver, Colorado So it's not Monday morning, but I know it is for most of you and I know for at least 75 million 17 thousand six hundred and twenty six of you and I know for at least 75 million 17 thousand six hundred and twenty six of you this is going to be a horrible day and it's going to be a horrible day for America and it will go down in history as one of the worst days of this country because after today we're not really going to know the nature of our country I don't know what happens now, and I'm as scared as you are,

and just know that they love it. They love our fear. They want us to be subjugated by all of their actions, policies, points of view, to push back on the marginalized populations of our country with no social reprisal. Look, I'm all about free speech, but just know that it's now conditional to abide by their rules,

which I think mostly will be shut the fuck up. Equal rights are going to be on the back burner. If ever coming back, I don't know. The living wage also on the back burner. Will it ever happen? I don't know. Healthcare for all. Will that ever happen? I don't know. Health care for all. Will that ever happen? I don't know. The idea of sustainability being an important project for the human species. I don't know where that is either.

They finally won the war against tolerance and now we got to live with it. But again, I don't think that number is unsubstantial. I mean, when you think about the electoral map, which is oddly a lot like the Duty Watch app that I've been tracking to watch fires, you know, red is a problem. All shades of it. It's a problem because despite what anybody thinks, it was always sort of the loophole of democracy that it was possible that you could freely elect a fascist that will end it. And you know, I don't know, the nature of democracy that it was possible that you could freely elect a fascist that will end it and you know I don't know the nature of democracy as a government body seems to be very codependent suffers the same problem as any codependent situation you know you you've got this idea this body this entity that wants everyone to be treated equally that wants you know everybody to

to be on the same level. It's a real people pleasing idea. And people pleasers are vulnerable to major assholes and profound gaslighting. So here we sit at the precipice of an authoritarian America, where people will be nominated and put in positions of power where they have no capability of doing it correctly or don't know the job. Primarily so, the autocrat at the top of the pyramid has all the say and all the power. He's terrorized his stooges and the Senate and Congress and in business to fear for their own lives,

if not their own careers in politics, if they do not do what he does. And that fundamentally, I don't know, doesn't sound like democracy. I'm not trying to bum you out. But this is where we are today. And I don't... Look, my fears are the same as many of yours. You know, I mean, I know some people in their denial or in their need to adapt. They're like, well, we'll see what happens. Yeah, we will. But I don't, it's not gonna be good. And the dread and isolation and feelings of despair are real and again, they love it. This is a trolling population of autodidactic meatheads

with heads full of garbage and bits and pieces trolling population of autodidactic meatheads with heads full of garbage and bits and pieces that enable them to bully and just gloat and find a real joy in that somehow or another, their disposition, which is basically built on the idea that empathy is for suckers and everyone's on their own and you just gotta make do and a lot of people that I thought were once relatively decent people have locked into this political movement as a way to make their personal fortunes and continue their

grift and I don't know, it's not that I assumed that humans were all innately good, but it's sort of interesting to watch the ones that you thought were somewhat well balanced, you know, buckle for their own intentions. You know, I flew out of a fire zone into a blizzard and the dread of waiting for fire day to day, that feeling of a lack of control, a powerlessness in the face of natural disaster is a lot to live with. And then I came out here to Denver and did a couple of amazing shows, great people out here in Boulder and in Fort Collins. We really had a good time. Me and Makovsky did some great sets and did what we could to ease the stress. But there was a blizzard in that feeling of driving on ice. Driving on ice in a just a, you know,

a car that isn't an all wheel drive and that weird tension where you just don't know when the car is just going to start sliding without you. That fear of powerlessness. I guess it was a primer. Is that the word I wanted? It was priming me for what's going to happen today and what it's going to feel like for God knows how long. But again, the desire to isolate and lose yourself in your phone and lose into yourself and bask in, you know, frightening information or information that's bullshit. I'm not suggesting denial, but I am suggesting that somehow or another we try to keep our fucking heads together.

I mean, on some level, a little bit of denial is necessary, just so you don't lose your fucking mind. Maybe don't look at your phone right when you wake up in the morning, give it a few hours, take a breath, have a nice breakfast, and then, you know, blow your brains out with the fucking phone because it's gonna be a shit show.

It's gonna be just like checking for fires. It's gonna be every day of that, every fucking day. This week is gonna be horrifying for tens of thousands maybe hundreds of thousands of families who will be ripped out of their homes and thrown into transport vehicles and taken more ever possibly to camps possibly to countries that they haven't lived in as families for decades maybe ever and you know that'll probably be on TV

But this is what making America great looks like to you know about 77 million three hundred One thousand nine hundred and seventeen people in this country Taking the rights away from women. This is what makes America great. This is what does it It's a small price to pay right for people who just want their eggs to be cheaper on the backs of this kind of bullshit But look again don't want to be negative. Just want to say hey Try to hold on to yourselves try to hold on to who you are try to get involved on a you know community level on a state level see if we can you know regroup something or or hold the line in terms of just treating people with some fucking decency

because the war on tolerance has been won. And you know, tolerance was the necessary lubricant for democracy to function. And I don't really even know what to do with the 110 million people that didn't vote at all, but you know, who knows? They're the wild card, I guess. But I do know, again, that 75 million plus people

do not want this. And that's almost half. It's a difference of a couple million people. So we're out there, they're out there, to try to do the right thing in their day to day life and probably try to do the right thing in the civic world of your community, of your state. And yeah, I don't really know what happens.

But look, you can still enjoy a nice meal. You can still entertain yourself. You can still run your errands. You can still have your friends. Just try to hold onto your minds, will ya? Could ya? Try to take care of the people that are vulnerable in the way that you can. I'll be in Santa Barbara, California at the Lobrero Theater on Thursday, January 30th, San Luis Obispo, California at the Fremont Center on January 31st.

That's a Friday. Monterey, California at the Golden State Theater on February 1st, Saturday. Iowa City at the Ingler Theater on Thursday, February 13th. Des Moines, Iowa at Hoyt Sherman Place on Friday, February 14th. Kansas City, Missouri at the Midland Theatre on Saturday, February 15th. Asheville, North Carolina at the Orange Peel on Thursday, February 20th. Nashville, Tennessee at the James K. Polk Theatre on Friday, February 21st. Louisville, Kentucky at the Baumheart Theatre on Saturday, February 21st, in Lexington, Kentucky, at the Lexington Opera House on Sunday, February 22nd. I'll be in Oklahoma, Texas, South Carolina, Illinois, Michigan, and March and April. You can go to WTFpod.com slash tour for

all my dates and links to tickets. The set is coming along pretty well. I'm trying to think that that has any relevance or importance to anybody. That's the other thing about this thing, is to think that whatever you're doing is futile. You can't think that way. And you know, and also try not to let your mind slip and you know, kind of drift into thinking that maybe this isn't so bad. I guess that again falls under the denial umbrella, which might be necessary, but it's gonna be challenging. It's gonna be challenging just to maintain yourselves.

Today I talked to Bill Burr. He's been on several times over the years. I see him at the comedy store all the time. He's got a couple of things coming up. His new comedy special called Drop Dead Years comes out in March on Hulu. He's also going to be in the Broadway production of Glengary Glen Ross with Bob Odenkirk,

Kieran Culkin and Michael McKean. That's gonna be, I think that's starting, well they're gonna start rehearsals in March. Look, you know, I wanted to talk, and in some ways I had to talk, to people who were around during the fire because everything stopped and These fires are being managed miraculously

by amazing teams of firefighters, thank God somebody many people there is a type of person that wants to fight fires because you know with civil servant jobs and jobs that, you know, seem, I don't know, like there's a lot of jobs that are sort of thankless, but this isn't one of them, and it is driven by people that want to fight fires. That is what they want to do. That is their purpose in life and thank God They exist because if there were people that were like well, I don't know this firefighting racket, you know There's not a lot into it. There's no future in it. I don't like my health care. It's very dangerous

So yeah, I'm not into it. I'm gonna do something easier Thank God there are people that want to fight fires with all their heart and and save lives It's amazing. And you know, I guess on some level we're all gonna have to become firefighters Metaphorically in our own way in the ways that we can again. I'm not trying to Be negative, but I'm just trying to be Realistic but Bill is here because he was around and he had to evacuate and a lot of the talks we've had lately are pretty present,

they're not backlogged. And it's good catching up with him, we have our own issues, me and Bill, but he's sort of leveling off and he's really kind of fighting the good fight to be a decent fella. It takes time. So yeah, the blizzards, I've been in a blizzard. It was kind of a blizzard.

It just, it's got very cold. And you know, I know it's hip for the grifting entertainers to kind of poo poo climate change. And maybe we've passed the point of no return. And this is just the new reality. 23 degree below zero wind chills in Denver to the point where the hotel couldn't even heat itself and you know the ice and a lot of it's just regular stuff but we're on the precipice of a lot of dark stuff and for those of us who are still alive and not excited about it,

it's going to take everything we got, you know, just to do our part to push back on it or to just, uh, adapt to it, to find some, uh, quality of life in the middle of it. Oh my God. So dark. It's so negative, but I'm going to go have some coffee. It's so dark, it's so negative. But I'm gonna go have some coffee. Look, I can tell you this, I'll keep doing this, I'll keep talking to people, I'll keep figuring out a way with my heavy heart to find humor in things,

or just to be self-righteous occasionally. You know, what are you gonna do? So look, Bill Burr came by the other day and we hadn't talked in a while and Bill Burr, you know, struggles. You know, he's the, he is struggling with himself. And that's where a lot of the good stuff starts. So his new comedy special, Drop Dead Years,

will premiere on Hulu on March 14th. Glengary Glen Ross opens on Broadway and previews on March 10th. Opening night is March 31st. Tickets are on sale now. This is me and Bill the other day. People, with Robin Hood Gold, you can now enjoy the VIP treatment, receiving a 3% IRA match on retirement contributions. The privileges of the very privileged are no longer exclusive. With Robinhood Gold, your annual IRA contributions are boosted by 3%.

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Robinhoodgold.com slash boost. Over eight times the national average savings account interest rate claim is based on data from the FDIC as of November 18th, 2024. Robinhood Financial LLC member SIPC gold membership is offered by Robinhood Gold LLC. Getting dressed should be simple. If you're like me, you want to look good, feel comfortable, and be ready for anything. That's why I love DUR. It's not active wear, but it's not just fashion. It's the best of both worlds, where performance meets style. I wear my DUR pants to work, out with friends, on hiking trails, and everywhere in between. If you haven't tried Dior, you've got to

feel the difference for yourself. Head to Dior.ca slash comfort and get 20% off your first purchase today. That's Dior.ca slash comfort. It's kind of ironic in some way that you were coming over and then I fucked that coffee grinder up and I went through this with that coffee grinder before. It's like I couldn't get it to do the right grind. It was all the same, you know, it was like dirt. So now I got it. I bought two of them. I got to find that part. So I was in the middle of that project, but that's the day, you know, it was like dirt. So now I got to, I bought two of them. I got to find that part. So I was in the middle of that project,

but that's the day, you know, it's going to be okay. And yeah, and you were like, you're probably mad about something else. Yeah, I think so. But I mean, I am mad about that as well. Right, but do you find the level that it goes to, to be a little excessive, like ripping out a drawer? Yeah, I've broke things, you know, trying to,

if I just slowed down. Well, no, I think I got a little dramatic. But I was thinking about your, I watched a special. I think, because I deal with a lot of the same stuff you do. How old are you now, 51? No, I'm 56. Oh, so you're not that far from me. Yeah.

Like a lot of this stuff's coming up for me too, the sadness, and I've talked about that before, but I think, and this observation that's kind of like something you would observe, if I'm driving alone and I get lost or I get frustrated, I just sit in it. But if there's someone there, then I'm going to be like, Jesus Christ. Oh, really? Yeah. Like, you know, like when, if you're driving alone, you know where you're going, you'll figure it out.

But if there's someone sitting there, you'll be like, where the fuck, where the fuck are we? Right. Like, you know, you need the audience. Oh, yeah, yeah. That's interesting. I wouldn't go that way. I kind of flip out whether there's somebody there or not.

I flipped out on the way here. You did, by what? I was, cause I was, I'd put in your address, but then on the way I was like, oh, this is coffee shop I want to go to. So once I kept shutting it off, and then it would go back into the map and it would automatically put your thing there.

And I screamed as loud as you could scream. I don't fucking want to do that. And I was just like, what is wrong with me? Like, what the fuck is wrong with me? So how'd you, like with this, the fire thing, like how, how'd you fucking handle it? And I think you were on Kimmel last night, but you talked about it a little bit.

Yeah, I, you know, I- For real though. How did I- Did you freak out? No, I don't freak out on these things, but I am freaking out somewhere. I'm just not in touch with it. So it's like- But you weren't directly threatened? I didn't freak out during 9-11. I didn't freak out on these things, but I am freaking out somewhere. I'm just not in touch with it. So it's like- But you weren't directly threatened?

I didn't freak out during 9-11. I didn't freak out during the pandemic. I didn't freak out during this thing, but I freak out about the fucking Google map thing not working. So what I kind of was figuring out last night when I was on Kimmel is that because I don't flip out about the big shit,

I am the little shit is where it comes out. So I'll flip out about the big shit. Yeah. I am. The little shit is where it comes out. So I'll flip out about a cell phone because I'm upset about what I saw, you know, when I was in New York and that stuff happened or whatever, so. Right. But you worried that your house wasn't in danger? No, yeah, no, it got a little scary there.

That's what I mean. Yeah, so we, you know, definitely. Did you load up? Yep, load up, had to get out of there. You had a mandatory evacuation? Oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah. But it was like, you know, I saw this, the flames never got close enough,

but like, you knew they were coming and it was just kind of like, yeah, and it was like, you know, it's just, yeah, I feel very like fortunate that survivor's guilt. yeah, I feel very like fortunate that survivor's guilt. Yeah, I got a little of that. I freaked out. Wait, where does the benefit start

with this many frigging people? What, you mean insurance? No, I mean, just as far as like for helping people out. Yeah, insurance company. That's the thing I was talking about on Kimmel is how they always keep it on all the homeless people, all the immigrants. What about the insurance companies? They aren't gonna pay anybody a dime and still give themselves a bonus. What about those guys?

It's gonna be fucked. What about all these landlords that are now a two-bedroom in Pasadena is nine grand a month vast What about these hotels that was 89 bucks and it went up to like 700 bucks? Yeah, he's fucking and I met this guy at the in-and-out was saying like yeah, my landlord is trying to evict me Yeah, really? Well cuz there's all that palisades money and they don't have any. So now these areas that were working class, they're trying to get that money. I think that they're trying to do that. That becomes that sort of like that shock doctrine capitalism business.

Like I don't know who's going to rebuild in the Palisades, but if a developer comes in there and offers enough money to buy out all that property, they'll probably take it. Oh yeah. Well, how about the fact that banks won't even freeze it for two months? You have to keep paying your mortgage, even though your fucking house burned down. They won't even give you like a, hey, you're going through a difficult time, you're a fellow American. You're fucked.

You have to keep paying that thing, plus getting gouged by these landlords in hotels. It's ridiculous. And I get that. This is why I don't fucking watch politics. Politicians are grossly underpaid. Their job is to give you and me somebody to blame and get mad at, and then their job is they stand there and they get yelled at, and then all the fucking people

that they're really working for, they fucking, like you can't make 200 grand a year and your portfolio is worth 60 million bucks. That just doesn't work that way. Yeah, you just become a money laundering operation. Yes. Big business. And also like, well the idea was that, you know, you try to make government work for people or protect people.

And then there's one side that just wants none of that. They just privatize everything. Fuck everybody. Can I tell you something? One of the dumbest theories out there is this form of government works better than that form of government. They're all corrupt. They're all corrupt.

It will be. Communism, capitalism. They never seem to make room for, they never seem to acknowledge the potential for greed. You know what I mean? Like it's a great idea. You know what's funny? But if somebody gets in there, they're like, I got an angle. Yeah.

We can run money through this. Yeah. Yeah. I did a gig in Finland one time and they had like socialism where they had over there. Yeah. And they go, yeah, we don't have any rich people in our country. And I said, really? I go, do you have banks?

And they said, yeah. And I just laughed. Somebody's making money. Do you have sociopaths here? Then somebody's fucking with the deal. Plenty of sociopaths. But I- You can call it whatever you want. But when you were in that moment though,

like, cause like when I decided I was gonna freak out and leave, like I did it voluntarily cause I couldn't read my app right. Like I saw the red section, and it was right over there on the two, and I'm down, it's seven in the morning, I got a guy coming to paint

because my kitchen had a leak in it. And we're standing out there, my neighbor comes out, and I'm like, what are you guys gonna do? It feels like it's close. And it's like, yeah, but I don't think it's that close. And then we just saw this black cloud come over the whole fucking neighborhood. And the painter goes, you better get out of here.

So I gotta load up these three cats. I got one crate, I'm putting one in the hamper. I got one taped one in a box. And I go to Hollywood to the Hampton Inn and I figure I'm good. I get them all in, I buy other crates. And then that catches on fire. I watched it catch on fire.

I could see it, the one by the Comedy Store. Oh yeah, oh my God. I could see it blow up and I'm like, you gotta fucking, now I gotta move again? But nonetheless, I found that in that moment, like, I can focus. Like, you talk about calm. It's not that I don't respond to big things, but I'm always happy that, you know,

no matter how panicky or fucking nuts I am, that when the shit hits the fan, I can show up and do it. Yeah. Well, burning to death is pretty good motivation to get the fuck out of that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm glad I didn't panic and be like, I don't know what to do. Yeah, which way do I go?

Yeah, you don't wanna be the guy shitting himself. How'd you decide what to load up? Oh, it was very quick. I don't care about stuff. Yeah, me neither. You know what I did? I took my pilot's license and my log book and then my passport and my laptop. And then I just-

Cash? No, I just grabbed, I'm not a gangster. I don't have like cash in the fucking walls or anything. Yeah, we just, you know, we spent some time with some friends in the Valley and then we went out to the desert. And I just thought after a couple, two, three days it was gonna be over.

And it's just like, this is the one thing I do is I don't watch the news at all. Cause I'm already crazy enough. I don't need these people, you know, like the job, you know, CNN, Fox News, all they do is just stir people up and get, then they get their own countrymen fighting. Like I think they should all be in jail for treason.

Cause if you make money by dividing Americans, these fucking nerds who own these apps, who just have bots on there, just making everything political to get people to argue, but no one fucks with those guys. So what I'm trying to do is to get the message out there, guys, we're all on the same team here. Yeah, people.

Let's, yeah, let's, we need to like respect each other and we gotta stop, we gotta help each other. Yeah, I noticed that message like, you know, I've watched a lot of your standup and I know you fairly well. We've had our moments. Mark, I think we've both had our moments with everyone. Goes without saying.

I know, but like you have, but people just assume that I don't wanna talk to them. Do you know what I mean? They're like, he's intense. You know what I mean? So they stay away he's intense. You know what I mean? So they stay away from me for that way. I think that you, it's like, yeah, it's gonna come. You know what I mean?

Why me, you might get a little defensive pretty quickly and get angry about something. As opposed to you? What? Did you just put me higher up on the Hill of Psycho? A little. Yeah, all right. Well, I'll let you. I understand how you're wired. Yeah, all right, well, I'll let you.

I understand how you're wired. You're on the narcissist spectrum, I'll give you that. Are you? No, I am on the low self-esteem. I got that. I don't know if I'm narcissistic, I'm just selfish. Crushing need to be liked. So I don't have that thing where I like,

just fucking, I mean, the farthest I'll go is if somebody cuts me off in traffic, you know, I'll get in a fuck you, fuck you, fuck somebody, but I would never like, whatever, you know, you have an acting gig and treat a PA like shit. Like I would never do, like I'm not like that. So. and treat a PA like shit. I would never do, I'm not like that. Like I've had to tell people in my life,

where like, maybe you've had this two words, like I'm not yelling at you, I'm just yelling. Like I'll yell. I used to be that guy, I don't do that. I know I'm yelling now. I do know I'm yelling. But not at somebody? Yeah, but I also, no, I also understand, no.

And I've also gotten like, you know, the people in my life now, I have like, you know, I think I gravitated to some of the same kind of wired people and it was just like, you know, it was like junkyard dogs in a fucking pit fighting over a pork chop, but like, you know, but hanging out with guys like Dean Del Ray, Dean's like a total chill guy.

Totally chill. So he's like one of the great people that I've met in this business. Yeah. A great friend of mine. And like I've... It's good to hang around Dean when you're like us. Cause he'll just level it off.

Just keeps it level. Well, I mean, I don't, I've never had an argument with that guy. Exactly. But I have, I have like, you know, I got a good group of people that like, I've met like, it's like, oh, this can be easy. Yeah. This doesn't have I have like, you know, I got a good group of people that like I've met like it's like Oh, this can be easy. Yeah, this doesn't have to be like hey, bro

Sorry about the other day like once a month or whatever. So You know and a lot of that shit obviously I was bringing to the table So I was I was pretty impressed during the last fight we got into Over whatever the fuck it was in the green room, dude I've had so many fights with you. I don't remember what any of them are about. No, I kind of knew what that was about, but there was a couple things I remember about it though. Oh, the last one?

I do remember the last one. You were trying to get a freebie in, and then you tried to act like you weren't. You came walking in, and you go, I could hear your voice from down the hall. And I go, I could smell your bitterness. And you go, hey man, hey man, I'm just fucking around. I'm like, no you weren't.

You're in a bad mood and I was the first guy you hurt and now you're being a cunt. No, this was a different thing. It was over a topic. It was over a due process. And we were in the- Well, the cancel culture shit was going on. Right, we were in the green room

and Jessalyn, there's a couple other people there and you go off on me. And all I remember is like, I'm going to have to just fucking take this. I'm going to have to stand. I'm not, I can't walk away from it. I'm going to have to hold my ground and wait till this shit passes. And you go and then I go. But the thing I noticed was, you know, within three minutes you were like, you know, maybe

I should be on the women's side once in a while. Like the distance between outburst and apology was tight. I was proud of both of us. I thought we got over quickly. We're pretty good, yeah. Yeah. No, we're in a good place. And I know another one because of the way

we're wired is coming, but I don't take it seriously. Like you could literally say the most fucked up thing you could possibly say to me. And I'm gonna be like, the next time I see him, he's gonna be like, hey man. Right, well yeah, I get that too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't get it.

But I don't rage anymore. And I guess, because I remember, I don't remember. You just ripped a fucking drawer out of your cabinet. But. You know what it is about guys like that? No one was around, no one witnessed it. No, but it's what it is, is probably, if you're like me, what you saw growing up, you're not anywhere near,

so you think you're not crazy, but it's like, your definition of crazy is so beyond regular people's. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So that tends to happen. Yeah, yeah, well, I think it's that, you can't get away from what you grew up in. But I remember, I don't remember, when was that last, when did you have that revelation?

Like I haven't talked to you in a long time in a long form conversation. When, I remember you did mushrooms once. Yeah. And you had, like in a week or so after you're like, oh man, you had it all figured out for a minute. You saw some- That's the honeymoon phase.

But then what happens is after that, then like you, this shit that happened to you still happened to you. Yeah. So it becomes, yeah. Then it's this weird thing. You can see it, but you can't necessarily unfuck it. Yes, so then the anger comes back more so. Oh.

But then you then, that's like the work. You kind of got to work your way through it. I mean, as a buddy of mine, you know, who got sober was talking about that, how he gets sober and like the work, you kind of got to work your way through it. I've got this buddy of mine, you know, who got sober was talking about that, how he gets sober and like the first day he goes, dude, I felt like I was walking on a cloud, waking up, all this energy. And then all of a sudden they were out and about and there was some guy looking and he said, what the fuck are you looking at? And his sponsor was like, oh, and then his sponsor goes, all right, the honeymoon part is over. Here is, now here comes the work.

That's right. Well, there's a funny- So that's where I am. That's where he was with his sobriety after the 10 days. What was there, was there an event that tipped it? Tipped what?

You into like saying, I gotta do the work? Yeah, it was the, cause post like the first mushrooms I took, I figured out so much about myself or figured out the main, I guess, issue. Yeah. And I felt for 10 days. Was that the sadness thing? Yeah, what that was.

What was it? It was how I felt growing up. Just constantly terrified. Yeah, not loved, not feeling like you mattered. Yeah. And, but I always thought when I was a kid, I was like, oh, I didn't need that. I was tough, and I laugh at families

that were like the other way. But like, I mean, because it wasn't like necessarily my family, it was the whole fucking thing. Everybody's family was kind of like that. Yeah. The other way, but like, because it wasn't like necessarily my family, it was the whole fucking thing. Everybody's family was kind of like that. Yeah. And so anyway, so after like the 10 days, for the 10 days I felt like, oh, this is who I would have been

if all of this shit didn't happen to me. And then after 10 days, it's like, oh, but it did. And it was like, oh, I could have been like this. Yeah. But now I'm like this. And it's's like, oh but it did and it was like, oh I could have been like this, but now I'm like this and it's just like, and then you just start thinking like, you know, at different events like how the fuck could you do that to a kid? Why would you, you know, whatever, I don't want to get into it but like. But you saw the parallel universe where you're having a healthy life? Yeah, not in show business, not needing to get on a stage being hey look at me and I

don't know, but I don't know. But I don't know where the fuck that is. That goes. But then, yeah, so then I, you know, I will say every time I feel like, you know, okay, I've dug it all out and now we can start building a new house and find this another level or area or whatever. I mean, it's a lot of shit.

I mean, it was 50 years. 50 years, dude. Look, as bad enough as it is for me, it's worse for the people around me. So that was really the motivation because I love my wife to death. I obviously love my kids to death. And like the one thing I am proud of

is my kids are not afraid of me. I've probably overcorrected. But yeah, I come home, they treat me like a fucking bouncy house. They're just jumping all over me and everything. And we have all these games that I play. Most of them just involve me chasing them around the house. How old are they?

About to be eight and four and a half. So, you know, my daughter's to the point now where she reads to me, she reads me Captain Underpants, a chapter of Captain Underpants. And what I love is she loves jokes and how they write that book. The chapter ends with a setup and then the name of the next chapter is the punchline.

So like the guy would be like going, no, we covered our tracks. There's no way we're gonna get busted. Chapter eight, busted. And she just thinks, you know, in her seven, eight year old brain, that's something, and then she read it like five times and be like busted. And she'd thinks, you know, in her seven, eight year old brain, that's something, and then she read it like five times and be like, busted, and she'd make like this face

when she did it, and she was totally getting into it. And you know, my son's like really into music, like loves ACDC and stuff. Oh yeah, you show me the video. Oh yeah, oh. It's the best. Him doing the Chuck Berry, via Angus dance. Yeah, he can do the duck walk, it's amazing.

The one thing though, when I was watching the special, you know, I realized like, I mean he can do the duck walk, it's amazing. The one thing though, when I was watching the special, I realized, I mean, you and I are similar, but in a lot of ways, but you went and had a regular life in the way that you got a wife, you got kids, and now, I didn't even pull it together to be able to handle that,

and when you talk about that sadness at being at the core of the anger for how you grew up, I mean, I relate to that. But one thing that you seem to have gotten over or at least have some range in your life is that like for me, and like you say, you wanna be loved and you know, we do this thing in a room full of strangers,

but like, I don't fucking trust love. I don't trust it. You know, if somebody loves me, I'm like, you're fucking with me. I can't let go. And it's a fucking nightmare. So that's- I know where that comes from.

What's that? Because my parents were like needy fucking exploitive people. Why, what do you think? No, well, it's Jesus Christ. I'm on your side. Jesus Christ, Mark. That's it.

That's where we get touched. We're like, what? What's your reason? How are you gonna hurt me? Exactly. But you know that one. No, you showed me a picture of your mom one time. Oh yeah.

And I was like, wow, she's beautiful. And you just made some sort of comment like, oh yeah, she made sure she got all dolled up. It's all about her. And I said, oh my God, child of a narcissist. Yes, too, yeah. Two, how does that relationship work? There's usually one person just getting abused.

Well, they help, they- Waiting for the storm to be over and it never does until they die. No, no, they're both selfish enough to kind of float in their own zones and then just react to each other and then go back into their own little world. But now like, my old man's got dementia

and there's a point, like, I remember when we did that, that comics come home thing. You know, and there's always that moment where your folks were there and you're like, this is my dad, I'm like, that's the guy. Like, I'm thinking that's the guy. And then you realize, like, God, they're just old fucks now. And it's like...

You know, but like, how I look at them, I'm like, whatever happened to them was worse than what, the same way you don't feel like you're yelling, but you are to somebody else. They felt like, you know, the what they were doing was the right thing to do because they improved it from what happened to them. So then I improve it for them.

And, you know- Was this empathy always within you though, or is this part of the new you? No, it's like, it's trying to put shit to bed. Cause what I have realized is that when you go back to your childhood, there's your version and your parents' version, and the truth is in the middle. Because, you know, what parents don't understand,

a lot of them seem to forget, I think, is that how small a kid's universe is. Yeah. So if they're literally going, I don't like this shirt before they go to school, I go change your shirt. Yeah. Because I don't want you going to school feeling bad about yourself because these other kids will smell that on you and next thing you know, you're getting bullied.

Yeah. And like fucking when you're five, six years old, liking the shirt you're wearing to school is your universe. As an adult, seeing these fires and insurance and fucking, you know, never years old, liking the shirt you're wearing to school is your universe. As an adult, seeing these fires and insurance and fucking, you know, never ending wars, that's nothing to you, but you have to remember the value that it is. But, you know, that information, I know that

because it's out there now. So like my parents didn't have that information. Their generation didn't have that information. So that's why when you go back, hey man, you did this, you did that thing. Oh, that was no big deal. It's like to you, to you it wasn't. So one of the hardest, I think human emotions probably is empathy.

Yeah. So that's a difficult thing to do. And I think a lot of people, I've been guilty of it, like just don't get there. So you gotta be like, that's a big thing with like a relationship, is getting out of your fucking ego and not trying to win the thing. Yeah.

Trying to actually hear what the person you're with is saying and how you ended up getting there and just acknowledge how whatever you're doing makes them feel rather than being like, oh, that's fucking nothing. Yeah, yeah. I got a friend in my way. Well, you know, like when you rage and being like, oh, that's fucking nothing. I got a friend of mine. Well, like when you rage and then like 10 minutes later,

everyone's crying, but you're like, I'm okay. What's the matter? I got through it. Yeah, that wasn't that bad. And then you do the worst thing. You say that wasn't that bad. And that really comes from the fact that you love them. You don't want to feel like you hurt them.

So you're like, you're fine. Come on, come on. It wasn't that bad. Come on, let's get an ice cream. Shake it off. You start doing that great Santini shit. So, yeah, so like a lot of this, so there's a lot of this new special and everything

is just, you know, it's, if you really watch my specials along, I was, you know, it's not like, this isn't like a sitcom. I didn't get here in like, you know, one mushroom trip into, this has been something that is, you know, I've been working on since I first started doing specials. I never wanted to be a lot of the stuff that I was.

I didn't want to be that guy. I just didn't, I think that was the guy I became and then how I had to be so shit, you know, wouldn't keep happening to me. Well, I think it's funny because like, you're a guy, the thing that, well, don't take this wrong. I mean, you're saving grace as your struggle with yourself. Right.

Do you know what I mean? Like you were always, you knew and I knew and everyone else knew. It's like, well, Bill's, you know, he's a good guy in there and he knows that, but there's- He's spiking himself, yeah, yeah, 100%. Yeah, and it's like, that's the whole thing.

Like who's gonna win the match? Yeah, and the thing is, I think when people watch that's if there's something relatable about what I do, you know, like one of my favorite, like head coaches right now in the NFL is this guy, uh, Nick Soriano, Soriano, the guy for the Eagles, because I see that guy where I'm just like, this guy is really good at what he does, but, and he knows he is is but there's a part of him in that brain is saying no You're not and it's just like and fighting that fucking thing and having to do that Yeah as an NFL fucking coach with all these other cunts who don't know anything about football questioning everything you're doing

It's a very like stand-up comedy experience. We're like getting heckled from the crowd Yeah, you or people like online. I like when they take your jokes and they put them on and they rename them and make you say what they want you to be saying, like there's a lot of that. Oh yeah, some people started all kinds of shit with me and Kreischer by taking something I said out of context and saying it was about him,

it wasn't even about him. And we had to fucking work that out. It's a fucking nightmare. Like out of all the people in the world, how does anyone start shit with Bert Kreischer? Listen, what do you mean? Fucking he's a comedian, it happens. Everything happens.

But I wasn't even talking, it doesn't. Dude, we're all following our dream and it came true and we're still fucking working shit out. It's funny as hell. How do you, how do any of us, we tell jokes for a living. How are any of us upset? Yeah. Because it's not a fix.

Yeah, but I never got, but did you like, like you talk about the arc of your specials, all I ever did with comedy, all I ever wanted to do, I don't, and I've said this before, I don't know that I got into it thinking like, I want to entertain people. I just knew that I could have my own fucking space to say what I wanted to fucking say,

and it was mine. All right, I got into it because I thought it was an easy way to make a bunch of people I didn't know like me, so they wouldn't get mad at me, and no one would try to hurt me. Really? Well, it was a combination of that, and then being so walled off that I needed

a place somewhere to like a moat. Yeah, well yeah, but that's taking a risk. That's not necessarily get everyone to like you because when I do it, I guess I want them to like me, but you know, there's part of me that's sort of like, I don't like me, so go fuck yourself. How can you like me?

Yeah, I don't have that. No, you don't push back. But you like to fuck with them a little bit. You like to test them. No, I'd like to do that. But I don't get upset if they like me. I want them to like me. No, I want them to like me.

And then I also want them to feel like they got their money's worth. I don't want to be just going up there and dumping my day on them or whatever. So. Yeah, sometimes if I don't have a show that I think is good, I'll just go really long and then at least they can't leave saying they didn't try.

They're not enjoying me, I go, I know the solution, more of me. Yeah, more of me, cause then they're not gonna walk out and say like, why the fuck didn't he finish? Yeah, I don't know. I don't know, like I. That doesn't happen that much, that's behind me.

Yeah, I don't, you know what I mean? I don't know like I that doesn't happen that much. That's behind me. Yeah, I don't you know what I mean. I don't I did Here let me tell you this I was in I'm just gonna let you go man come on work this shit out I've been I was in that Well, I get well, I don't know what hasn't happened in a long time, you know last night What do what happened was I was in I was in Napa and I do this show I get one woman who's sitting in the middle of the front section at the theater and she really wants to give me a present. She brought something for me.

She didn't know she was gonna get it to me after. So in the middle of the show, she's like, I love you. I have a gift for you. And it's taking time. And I'm like, all right, can we, and she's like, can I just, and like it was good natured. You know, she had knitted me a cat thing

and she bought me a little thing or whatever. Right? But then the rest of the audience is like, hey, come on! I'm like, this is not a bad situa- This is not a bad person. Oh, good, I thought you were gonna- No, no, I'm like, you know, we just have,

you just hang out. I'll get back to the show, let her do the thing, and I'll take the present, thank you. And then some other woman was up in the balcony, she's like, yeah! Like yelling like this, and I'm like, what the fuck is this now? So that's a whole different thing.

So I go from like, you know, managing the nice lady, just as being like, are you gonna shut the fuck up, or what, because I can have you taken out, I don't have to deal with this, if people wanna show. And it keeps happening, and eventually I'm like, what are you a fucking moron, you know? And then it's being handled, and I'm taking- Which person, the upper deck person?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So that all happens, and then you gotta get back to you, because you just showed the audience what a fucking monster you are by dealing with the headquarter. I think you're being too hard on yourself. No shit. So... So today, I get a fucking DM from somebody

who was sitting near the woman up top who was drunk, I thought, and yelling, and she says, look, I don't know really what happened, but I was sitting next to these people, and it seemed like she was a neurodivergent person who couldn't control it. So now I'm like, this is all sitting on me. I call this a spectrum person who was with somebody

who was taking care of her, wanted to see the show, but couldn't control her emotions. But I don't know what to do with that. I handled it the way I'm supposed to handle it, but now I think I shit on some person that has major emotional problems. No, that's on the person that brought him. I think so.

If they have that issue, you shouldn't bring them to a comedy show. Yeah. I'm not saying put them in the attic like the Kennedys. No, I know, but I came to the same conclusion. But you just, you can't win. And anybody can communicate with you. If they-

You didn't know. The person who brought the person didn't know. The person doing it didn't know. It was just a big misunderstanding. So when you talk about like that thing you said on Kimmel last night about how like what you're mad about is something much bigger that you think is going to like consume you if you take it on.

Do you feel that, do you know what that is though, right? Mostly? What that thing is? Is it just your family? Oh yeah, sure. Well, it's also the powerlessness, powerless feeling of being a kid if you're not being listened to. And that's what is a bad news.

If you're not being listened to and bad shit's happening to you and stuff, you just eventually, that's kind of how you, you stop emoting because no one's listening and then you also shut down stuff because stuff is hurting you. So then you just sort of become like, you get the 600 yard stare, the kid version of it.

And that was a lot of my friends, a lot of my friends who liked that. And it's kind of funny. It's a neighborhood thing almost. Well, I mean, I go around and I do shows and my whole graduation class, like everybody has really interesting jobs and really cool to see them again.

And I run into a lot of them. And there's a couple of people where like, you know, you started having like family envy when you feel yours is a little weird. And then I ended up finding like, wow, it was very similar. Or it was like, oh, it was a little different or it was worse or whatever. So, but that's one of those things where, so that's not like fair to my parents where or anybody else who was bringing me up or something. It's not like I'm shitting on my parents,

but it's just like they were my universe. So like the importance of things. Like when your kid comes up to me going, hey dad, you said you were gonna play with me and you're staring at your phone. It's like, that's a big deal. And you gotta go put it down, like fuck man. This is making this person feel like

you're not worth my time. So yeah. Well that's good. You feel like you're not worth my time. So, yeah. Well, that's good. You're good, you're catching all this now. Because like, I took a different approach in jokes with my parents. Like I used to do that bit about like, you know, you know when your parents say we did the best,

we did the best we could. And they didn't. They didn't know what they were doing and you don't have to take that shit. You didn't do the best you could. I can accept that, but you didn't even try really. Yeah, I mean, well, look, each situation is unique. So, but I've interacted with you enough

to know that they didn't try. They left me untethered. I think that that's why you're a cat person. I grew up with dogs. I got dogs. I think a dog would be too fucking needy and consuming. And like you probably grew up isolated and you vibe with cats was kind of like,

hey man, sometimes I want to be on top of you, other times I just want to get the fuck out of here. That's right. Go kill something. We had a lot of dogs. I grew up with a lot of dogs and it's just the same reason I don't have kids. God, I don't trust my emotional construct,

not to be selfish and feel that like. Hey, more people should do that. Yeah. Like, because a lot of people just have a kid because they think they should be doing it. Yeah. And you really have to want to do it. And you have to love the job.

Yeah. And you have to want to help try to form a empathetic adult on the other side is what you're hoping to come out with. But like, you know, I listen to my kids though. Like when they're upset, like everything stops and I sit down and I listen to them, you know, even if I don't agree with them being like,

well, you can't do that. You can't have every toy or whatever they're doing. And then there's other times it's like, all right, you're right. I shouldn't have done that. Like I remember like when I knew I was changing it, my daughter was only three. She was so cute, maybe even less than that.

And she came up to me. There was something that was bothering her and I sat down on the stairs. I said, what's bothering you? And she walked up to me and us spontaneously, not even thinking we both held hands while she talked to me. And I was like, that never happened. When I was growing up, that never happened to anybody

in my fucking generation. Maybe Italians, Italians are really good with like emotional. I always got along with Italians, cause I was just like, these people, like as much as they're fucking yelling at each other, I hear love in there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Where my fucking Aryan, Northern European shit is just like. What do you think, it's just Irish Catholic?

Dude, I'm German. I mean, I am a gumbo of shutdown nationalities. Irish, Scottish, English, German, mostly German, French and Dutch. As much as I love French culture and everything, there is, I can't tell because maybe it's just Paris or whatever. It sort of has that Manhattan coldness to it, like career, then kids, and no God. You know, the Manhattan vibe. Yeah.

But it's good that you can identify in that moment when you're holding hands and that you can, you know, be present for the love from her and you. And you know, it's good as opposed to like, No, I say that, I say that, you know, absolutely. You know what I mean? And like, you know, and then you start having more than one and they have like disagreements.

You become like Judge Wapner. Yeah. You gotta make sure that you're not favoring either one of them or anything. Like I make sure, you know, I do that. Let my son learn, does something. Oh, it's great. And I'll ask my daughter, did you teach him how to do that?

That's amazing. Like I just, I make sure. Balance it. Yeah. I make sure I balance it. Yeah. Now, did you start, did you go to therapy? Yeah, I did.

Was it helpful? Yeah, I mean, to kind of crack it open or whatever, but like, I kind of feel like it's almost like doing standup, where you can rehearse as much as you want in your room, you have to go out and do it in front of people. That's right. So I feel like therapy, yeah, you can go there and talk about

your fucking problems forever. Yeah. It's like... And just spin them, like it just becomes a habit. Oh, I got sick of telling the fucking stories. And I was just like, I just need to go live my life. I've learned enough here. It definitely served a purpose, but then I needed to go out,

and I think mushrooms was a huge thing. That was like a fast forward button. Like only like four times. It's the only drug I've ever done that never makes me feel the next day like I wanna do that again. You know what I mean? And then it becomes like a habit.

Was it like a prescribed thing or you just did it? I just did it. By yourself? Nope, I was with my wife and my brother, my sister-in-law. And we were out in the desert. Yeah, and then another time I took him, I was with my wife in the middle of Utah. During the day?

I took him during the day, and I took him, and right after I ate, my wife's going like, because she took him with, and then she's not into them. She goes, I don't wanna do it. I said, well, I'm doing it. She goes, don't do it.

I go, I'm doing it. And I just ate a whole bunch of them. And then, dude, I ate them and 20 minutes later, I got a text, you gotta call me. I know you're on vacation, you gotta call me. And my, oh God, dude, my, my buddy, yeah, Bob Saget died. Oh my God.

And then the fucking mushrooms were coming out. Oh my God, it was, it was fucking wild. Where'd you, where'd you end up going in your head? I still had a good one, but the weirdest thing was when I would think about Bob, like the room went like gray, like black and white, like a funeral or something. It was fucking wild.

Cause I took a lot, dude. I mean, the ground was going... It was going in and out and shit, and I was talking to trees. I mean, I was fucking tripping. Yeah. And, uh... Yeah, dude, I thought I saw this guy way up on the hill,

and he said hello to me. He was way up on this cliff and shit. And I realized, like, the next day, it was my fucking, the neighbor, it was like this vacation thing. He wasn't way up on the hill, it was like this vacation thing. He wasn't way up in the hill, he was like right where you were.

But my depth perception, so I was just like staring at him. It was so fucking weird, a lot of the shit. But like, what did I say? Oh, and then that was the thing. And then I asked my wife, I said, can you go outside? I go, is there a little guy on the cliff walking, saying hello to people? And she's just laughing.

She walked out. She goes, there's nobody out there, but the guy had left. So then I fucking went back outside or whatever. And then I started thinking about it, like towards the end of my trip. I came walking and I said, hey, can I ask you a question? I go, you know, was, this was the sad part of the trip. I said, was that little guy real?

And she said, no. I said, OK, good. And I go, well, what guy real? And she said, no. I said, okay, good. And I go, well, what about that text message about Bob? Was that real? And she was like, yeah, it was. And I was like, oh, fuck. Because I was kind of hoping for half a second that maybe I dreamt it.

I don't know why you would dream that, but I was hoping that it wasn't the case, but that was... That one really got me, man. Oh, that was brutal. Because you talk about that in the special too, about we're at that weird zone of age. It's a very good observation, that one. It's funny.

I'll never be over Bob. I don't... I've made that peace that I won't be. Yeah, I don't think I will too, because it's not like I was totally close to him, but we're all weirdly close just by nature of who we are and what we do. But like, he was always the best guy in the world and it was such a shocking fucking thing.

You know what I loved about him? He just loved jokes. So if you started texting with him, I swear to God, if he wanted to go eight hours, he would just keep going. Like he- Doing jokes? Well, he never got sick of it.

And then he would always go crazier and darker. Yeah. And I always just thought it was so fascinating. He was such a nice guy, but he could go just so twisted. Yeah, yeah. And I always just thought it was so fascinating. He was such a nice guy, but he could go just so twisted and dark. But it kind of worked because he was just such a nice guy. And whenever I would do something on TV, if he saw it or whatever, he always took the time to say, great job.

And it was sincere. It wasn't like, oh, hey, you're moving along in the business. This is a guy I need to know. It wasn't, it was- It's a weak guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So- It's so weird because,

did anyone ever figure out what happened? I believe, I, you know, I don't want to speculate or anything, but the stuff that I heard was, I think that- He hit his head. He hit his head and had a bleed and he went to bed. He didn't realize how bad it was.

Well, you want to know something? I don't think it's bad, but like I'll tell you, man, you know, we go into all of these different hotels that after Saget died, I turned off fucking light on the bathroom because you know, you get up and you don't know where you are for a second. Oh yeah. What's yeah, you know, some of these places got those fucking marble floors and shit. Like, you know, I'm old. So like now, like anywhere I go, I just gotta make sure.

Well, the big thing too is you're alone. Yeah. And then you hit your head and you have to make a decision. Right, how the hell is he gonna know? He hit his head, I'm gonna lie down for a minute. What's he, he doesn't know how bad you hit it. But-

That one was like, that Patrice, like some of the Greg Geraldo, I mean, I've lost a lot of people. Yeah, I lost those same people. Fucking awful. Yeah, but you knew what happened with those guys. I know, but it didn't make it any easier. No, it was fucking horrendous.

Giraldo was the one that made me believe in addiction. Oh, dude, I remember that. And I was just like, to see it take a guy. That smart? That smart. And that good, and that sweet guy? And that alive? Yeah, like he couldn't fucking stop it.

That was literally, cause I remember like the first time hearing him about him having an issue. Yeah. I thought like, oh, come on, man, what's he having a midlife crisis? I just didn't believe that addiction was strong enough to take a guy.

Like that. Yeah, yeah. That sharp. And like, who the hell, I think Vinnie Brand called me when. Oh, he died out there, right? In Princeton, or what is it? New Brunswick? Yeah, yeah, that was a fucking brutal one.

Yeah, I mean. I mean, it's bad enough he died, but to have you last sat at the stress factor. In that hotel. Fuck him with you Vinny if you're listening. No, but I remember I told you. Well, why'd you have to say that? I mean, people are gonna take that seriously.

He still got the phone on stage? Oh my God. Did he get that pay phone? Oh my God. Patrice's life work was fucking trying to get him to get that fucking pay phone. He would say, Vinnie. First he trashed him and then he had to try to logically go

like you are encouraging people to yell up at the stage. What it was was Vinnie's a comedian and a club owner and you can't write material fast enough every fucking weekend. So he needed a gimmick. So he would do that and it was just, it turned every crowd into like a bachelorette party there for a while.

But then he stopped doing it. When he stopped doing it, it became this great club. And he used to run those like car crash videos. Like, you remember like before the show, the videos? It was just like, I don't even remember, but I just remember it was like crazy. I mean, oh, but the thing I was gonna say is I had talked to Geraldo because I told him,

I said, you know, when I got divorced from Mishna, she had gotten me sober. And I was sorta, you know, I told him I was framing it like- She was just like, what did I do? Well, no, I told him like the divorce cost me a fuck of a lot of money, you know, and um... She erred it. Yeah, that's true.

I have peace with that. You should, she's a sweetheart. I was able to see my side of that, because you get stubborn, you get competitive, you're like, it's this and that, but I realized years later, like, you know, it's okay, the money and whatever. But I told Geraldo how much it cost, you's okay, the money and whatever. But I told Geraldo how much it cost versus the fact that she got me sober. I said, I have to look at it like,

this is the price of my sobriety, because you got off easy, I've been through six fucking, that guy tried hundreds of thousands of dollars in rehabs and whatever, and he just couldn't get a handle on it. I don't know if part of it was like he was a social guy too, like he really liked, you know. Hanging out with losers, doing drugs? No, not that.

You're talking about the end, that's where it ends. And then if you get lucky, you know, no, I just feel like, you know, I toured with him a few, couple of those, you know, just for laughs thing, me and him, Tom Popper, and just the hangs were fucking amazing. And he was clean when I was touring with him. But he was saying, he goes,

don't you just wanna go up to that bar, have fucking drinks and talk to some chicks? And it's like, he just was a fun, fun guy. And we were kind of going through this business the same way where it was like, you know, we like, it was a period of time, any place I went on the road, he is either just there or was on his way to being there. And we would always get the same feedback,

like, you know, one of the Quad Cities or something, wherever the hell we were getting booked back then, and, you know, Duluth or some shit. And they would just be like, dude, you're like one of the funniest comics that's come through here in years. And we would laugh about that going, if somehow these regular people were the industry,

we would have something going on in our careers. So we used to joke that, we used to call it killing and obscurity. So you'd be going out there, and you keep coming back to these clubs, and the same fucking 30, 40 people were showing up. And then also the whole alt scene exploded in the 2000s and I was sitting there as a club comic,

like there was a part of me going like, am I playing disco? Like what the fuck is music changed? And I'm out here like, ba ba da ba ba ba, you know what I mean? And they're at some coffee shop. Yeah, so I was going like, yeah, I still remember where I was

where I had that one time I ever had that thought, which was the scariest thought ever. I'm like, wait was where I had that one time I ever had that thought, which was the scariest thought ever. I'm like, wait, am I the guy who doesn't make it? Yeah, we're out. What I do is old timey. Yeah. Where was it?

It was at the Funny Bone in St. Louis, Westport or whatever they called it, Funny Bone in Westport. It was like one of my favorite gigs because the staff at the Funny Bone was fun. And I was still drinking. It wasn't out of control then. So I would go out and have some pops or whatever. But I used to just mainly talk about sports and shit.

So I would be asking them, you know, Ozzy Smith, did you see him at the old Busch Stadium and shit like that? Well, actually, one time with the staff, I went to the old, the first one they had that the St. Louis Cardinals football team played in. And to me, when I went on the road, those places were like cathedrals. I used to see it every week, Mel Allen

on this week in baseball. Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. And Ozzy Smith would come out doing the back flip. And the Kingdome with Ken Griffey Jr. later. All of that stuff, like, I, I was iconic to me. So I got to go to a lot of those old stadiums and old ballparks. They're all gone now. County Stadium, Bush Stadium.

Gone. The Kingdom. Yeah, they, all these owners fucking, you know, for some reason the cities had to, like, they're all billionaires, but for some reason, we're buying all their merch and shit and rooting for the teams and buying the booze and all of that, but we also have to pay for the stadiums. It's kind of a great gig. That's why I like Bob Kraft.

He paid for the Patriots Stadium. So you had the realization that alternative comedy might take over when you were in St. Louis? No, I felt like what I was doing was still vibrant in St. Louis, but where it air quote mattered in New York and LA, like, oh dude, do you remember the height of that alt shit? I think I was in it.

All of a sudden, well all of a sudden, no, you were the guys who kind of started, the first comics that started, that's what always killed me was- We were club guys. You were club guys who kind of started, the first comics that started, that's what always killed me was- We were club guys. You were club guys that created the alt thing because it got stale, which it did. And then, but then it created this scene

where you could start in the alt room rather than doing all those hell gigs that we did to season yourself, to understand that. You could literally start your career doing a 20 minute bit about the fucking Transformers. And now you just have to post a reel. That whole sort of like come up, open, middle, close thing, done, it's over.

Yeah, but I mean, it's just, everything is just different. And what they were saying when we were coming up, I used to have to go on in between a stripper and a guy playing a ukulele. We had clubs, so shit is always changing, you know what I mean? Like I love how old people are,

oh man, you missed it, you missed it. It's like, they're not missing anything. They're gonna look back in the 2020s and say, and tell people in the 2040s that they missed it because you're young. Don't you remember? That's what it is. In Boston, after the happy hours closed down

and all those guitar acts came in, and you'd have to feature for a guitar act, and they were the big headliner, and it was sort of like, what am I doing? But how bad did your drinking get? It definitely got to the point where I wanted to not be doing it, and I was still doing it.

What it was for me was, the tipping point for me was I brought it into the house. And then once I had it in the house and I could have it every night. Yeah, then you saw it. Then, well then it was a lot, that's how my cigar smoking, you know. As long as I don't have cigars in the house,

like I don't have that. You always end up at the store with me grabbing them out of the box. Yeah, well I don't have that now, where I don't have that one, like I'm somewhere on the spectrum of addiction, but I don't have that now where I don't have that one. Like I'm somewhere on the spectrum of addiction, but I don't have that thing of like, if it's not in the house, I'm so Jones and like, I'll go out on my fucking boxers

and just go get it. I never had that. My shit is like, if it's not in the house, I won't, if it's in the house, I consume it. So I just have to be aware of what I have in like my day today because- The cigars turned on me. I don't like them anymore.

Oh yeah? I don't know what happened. Well, I'm doing these dins, I'm getting nicotine, but at some point I smoked a cigar and I'm like, it just didn't taste good anymore. And it was kind of good for that to happen. But it'll come back. You're probably also like smoking a lot of them

and then you get numb to it. Yeah, and you're expecting that same thing, that great thing. And then by the third one, it's not so good. Oh my God, dude, chain smoking cigars is not, no, I never did that. Like I would have like- Two a day, come on.

No, I was always a one a day guy, but there were times like if I was hanging with friends, like I'm out on the golf course, I don't golf. There's nothing for me to do out there. I'm a redheada-day guy, but there were times like if I was hanging with friends, like if I'm out on the golf course, I don't golf. There's nothing for me to do out there. I'm a redhead, it's sunny. You don't golf? I fucking hate golf. I finally like-

But you go hang out? I go play, well, it's funny, I bring my little Bose thing, and the one that I, the album I always play is Paul Anker's one where he did this fucking incredible album. Oh, the covers? Yeah, like Nirvana and stuff. Yes.

Great, yeah. It's fucking incredible. Yeah, it is. And the arrangements, like, he could have so just gone like Captain Kirk and just been like all cheeky, whatever. A joke, yeah. He didn't. He honored him.

He respected the music and the arrangements are incredible. So it's like everybody you know you want to play like Sinatra. This is like the happy medium where it's just like alright it's our generation's music but it's that old you know Paul Anka, Sinatra, Tony Bennett class. It's kind of a great record. Yeah. I know that record. It's so funny that you're using, like I used to do this, I was working on this bit about that every male is on the spectrum of male toxic. Everyone, there's a toxic spectrum of men and it kind of goes from like insensitive to murder. Right.

I actually, there's guys I see that aren't on it. There's definitely like like one of my buddies that I hang out with, I always say that to him. I'm like, dude, like you're like what I'm trying to work towards. You're like, like dude, he's just like this chill fucking cool guy. You know, like anybody he has his problems or anything,

but like, I just noticed like when people meet him, like they're really drawn to him. Yeah. Like he's just this open guy where for the longest time in my life, people would meet me and they were just like, oh yeah, hey. What do you attribute it to? Have you talked to him about it? I haven't analyzed it too much.

Like his growing up thing? Yeah. However, there's probably your DNA or whatever, or how you came, whatever you came from, but like, it's how, or maybe he processed his pain in a different way. Or maybe his parents were just loving people that gave him the space to grow up with love.

Yeah, it could be that. I don't know. That's fucking crazy. I don't know, but like, I don't wanna know if that's's true or not because if I find out that it isn't true, that that's actually a myth, then all my work is just out the window. For naught. Yeah, it's all this just a theory.

I was telling a story that you're in on stage about that night at, oh, this fucking, that comics come home thing that we did. You know, I was so like, you know, he put me on that thing and I was like, great. You know, it's full circle. I come back. I'm a pro. You know, I remember like doing one of my first guest spots at Nick after Leary and just dying.

I'm like, now I've got it all together. You know, I'm seeing everyone who's on there and he's reading the list of the order and he's going through everybody. And I'm like, what the fuck is happening? And he goes, all right, then Robert Kelly, then Marin, then Byrne. I'm like, god damn it. How the fuck?

Now I gotta go fight? I gotta go fucking, you know, I'm drowning upon the intro. But you know what's funny? I did fine. Every, exactly, everybody who gets that spot. Yeah, but here's what I remember. Everybody, dude, I saw Bobby did it this year. Bobby Kelly had to go on last, and he's like,

dude, what the fuck? And he's just going on, I gotta follow all you fucking guys. And I'm looking at him like, dude, you think it's fun following you? It's fucking not. It's not, yeah, it's not. So, and then what happens? What happens?

He kills. He went on after me, and it was within two seconds, it's like I didn't even go on stage. He fucking murdered. Bobby Lee's like that. I mean, it's like, Bobby, nobody wants to go on after me and it was within two seconds, it's like I didn't even go on stage. He fucking murdered. Bobby Lee's like that. It's like, Bobby, nobody wants to go after you. You fucking kill. Yeah.

You kill. Well, that was the funny thing is I'm back, once I figured out that I was told the order, I was like, God damn it. And I'm between you and him. And I walked up to you, I said, why don't you go after Kelly? And you go, I don't wanna go after Kelly. Oh, dude, I loved watching you twist in the wind.

And then what was funny is you got off stage, I go, you opened with the proctology bit, and you're like, I had to, I was going after Bobby. I go, yeah, but you had the bit, you had the bit. You weren't winging it, dude, so. The colonoscopy bit, yeah. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what it was. Yeah, look, dude, we all had of our...

No, I didn't. I went up one year, one comedy, it was the first time Trump got elected and this person went up on stage and so trashed Trump, half the crowd was booing. And then the next guy went up. Oh, was that Wanda? Wanda's here?

Wanda, Nick, DePaulo, and then me. Oh, wow. Dude, it was fucking amazing. It was one of my favorite nights of comedy. Wanda went up there like fucking, she went off on everybody like they all voted for Trump. It was fantastic. This is a comedian.

To watch somebody do that in an arena and not give a fuck. So half the crowd's booing and she's like, ah, fuck you, you motherfuckers. I was just like, you know, I already loved Wanda. I think I love her more. And then Nick goes up there and just goes the other way. Oh my God, dude. Oh my God.

Took it to another level of fuck this crowd. And I remember Cam Neely comes down and he's like going, going, he's going, what the fuck is going on? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And I go up there and I got to save the day. And what did I do? I went up there with a chunk of airplane material that I already had. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The most hackiest shit ever.

Yeah. That's what I did. I opened, I said, Hey, how are you guys doing? You guys want to talk politics? And they all laughed. And then I just did this airplane material. It was so funny. I get off stage after doing like the hackiest shit ever to bring everybody back. And they're all looking at me like, Oh my God, that was amazing. I go, that was amazing. That was like my evening at the improv set from fucking 88

before I even did comedy. I will say though, I went up there and I started pretty strong. I knew you were gonna be fine, because this is the thing, because he's only gonna do 10, whoever you're worried about is only gonna do 10, 12 minutes. Bob did, he did like 15, 20, anything.

But you remember that Pete David. Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha. But it was funny this year to watch Bob freaking out. He was going like, dude, what the fuck? I gotta fucking go on after all you fucking heavy hitters.

And I'm just sitting there. I wish I said to him, I was like, Bob, do you understand every year someone's freaking out, they have to follow you? You do understand. He doesn't. That you level. Yeah.

But. This fucking place. I remember. You do understand that, right? The opening joke I did though, was because Pete Davidson went up and it was weird. He did, it was a little weird. It was all about trying to get his mother fucked.

Remember he said just trying to, his mom had had sex since his dad died on 9-11, so he's been trying to have, you know, get his mother to date and have sex. And then he did. That sounds like a good premise to me. Yeah, it was good. And then he does this joke,

he ends sort of like, I might have to do it. It was funny, it was a little weird and dark, but he did fine. But he talked about it for the entire time. And I went on and I said, you know, I like doing these things, hanging out with the comics, and it's not definite or anything, but I think I'm gonna fuck Pete Davidson's mom.

Oh, that's fantastic. It worked, it fucking got me in. No, but then also, but the crowd loves that. Yeah, they love it. Because then they can see the, you know, you're- Comradery. Yes, exactly But I do find there are some guys the guys who kill the hardest sometimes or oh

Because Bobby fucking levels. He's just hard on himself because he doesn't think he writes enough Like he knows he can kill but he knows he's gonna do that same 15 minutes And I think that's what drives him nuts is like's like I think maybe in his... He's got all kinds of material. But he's pretty hard on himself about it, about generating material. And I think his mindset is like, you know, like he knows he can kill, but he knows he's just killing with, you know, these certain bits. Like I don't think he really thinks that he's going to bomb. I think everybody has, I'm in an arena set.

Yeah, I don't have one in the chamber. I don't do them enough, but yeah, you gotta sort of things down. Listen, I saw the freak out. Yeah, yeah, where was that? Oh, at the thing, yeah. Dude, I enjoyed doing my set and watching you freak out that night. And the harder Bobby was killing,

the harder I was laughing. Because of me. You just kept walking out, just like, dude, the look on your face, it was like, what was that, when the first time the your face. It was like, what was that? What was that? The first time the stock market crashed, was it Black Friday?

Yeah, you looked like the guy that was gonna jump off the fucking, right out his window. And I was secretly rooting for Bobby to kill even harder. Yeah, well thanks buddy. It's nice. Well, what else would we be doing? Do you know one of my favorite childish, comedic moments, comedy moments?

We were doing the improv when it was at Harris. And we were sitting in there, and the guy that was opening had some sort of prop, and we were teasing him about it. And he came running in, and they were doing like his intro. Remember that stupid, da da da da da da,

y'all ready for this? So he comes running back with this panic look, looking for his, because it was like his opening joke. And he's like, where is it, where is it, where is it? Neither one of us moved. We just sat there and then he found it. And as he found it, I reached over with two fingers and I closed the door.

Okay. And me and the other guy, just he goes, you fucking assholes. He rips open the door and he comes, he came running out, we were actually listening to him out of breath doing his first show. Hey, thanks for coming down to the improv. Dude, it was the hardest we laughed at his jokes all that fucking week, but like,

that's the shit that I like. So I love that you go up and say, I'm gonna fuck Pete's mom or. Save it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever. So what's going on with this, one of the questions about the psychological stuff and then, is that yeah, whatever. So what's going on with this, one of the question about the psychological stuff and then is that like when you,

and I'm just asking because I'm trying to. You're fucked up too, yeah. Yeah. You know, when you make the decision to not react or not fight or take the hit, don't you just feel it in your chest? Like, you know, like, oh God, just, you know, there's a decision

and then you gotta ride out that kind of like. I'll tell you know, like, oh, God, just, you know, there's a decision, and then you gotta ride out that kind of, like. I'll tell you the one that I am not able, I don't even know how to attack the problem. I have no clue how to do it, is like that Google map thing that happened to me on the way over. Oh.

Where it's like, I try it, I try it, and I do, I go from like fucking comces to tsunami. Yeah. And I, and always, and, but, but now I just immediately say after like, dude, you didn't have to do that. What the fuck is wrong with you? Stop being crazy. You know, thank God nobody else was in the fucking car.

Right. Like what is wrong with you? So that's, and that's as far as the solution has gone to. Now I still do it. And then I just say, I beat myself up. What the fuck is wrong with you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Stop doing that.

I don't need to react to these things. I say that out loud. And then the next thing happens, and it's literally like that moment and that realization never happened. So, but I've also know through, you know, trying to figure myself out that like, this is why most people don't figure themselves out,

because you got to push through this part that's difficult. Because it's easy, because once those grooves get worn in in your brain, it's just automatic pilot. Something's bad, I'm gonna rip a drawer out, I'm gonna fucking scream or throw my fucking phone against the wall. And then apologize afterward. That's how this, this is the, it's a play.

We're not rewriting. You've got it down to just mostly, like, freaking out when you're alone. No, I still freak out. Like, there's just, I'm... I got an act to get going. I'm trying to memorize the lines. And this is one section. Well, how's that going? Well, we haven't started yet, so I'm trying to get off book

before I get there, and I keep fucking up this same part. So I'm with my wife last night, and she's reading me the lines. All the kids are in bed, and I fucked up this scene. And I was like, it's coming, it's coming. But then I tripped up on a word. So she goes, oh, you got to do with this. I'm like, all right. So then I go go back and then I forgot. And then she said the line that I forgot like 50 times in a row. And I just went like seven times on the fucking arm of the chair. Yeah, and then my daughter came into the room,

said, what happened? I said, oh, sorry, I go, I was banging on the chair. It was so funny that she just looks at me because she's always going like, dad, it's not that big a deal. I go, sorry, I lost my temper. And she goes, all right. I go, I still love you, daddy has issues.

And then she just looks at my wife and kind of laughs and then leaves. But like, so as much as, you know, I fucked up in that moment, I, the saving thing that I'm trying to do is I address that, you know, what I just did had nothing to do with you. I'm fucked up, I'm sorry that was wrong or whatever. So. Yeah, I didn't mean I'm sorry, that was wrong or whatever. So.

Yeah, I didn't mean to scare you, that kind of stuff. Yeah, so my daughter actually, she kind of like looks at me in like a funny way. Like she kind of knows that I have like issues, but she does say funny things. She said the other day, like she was with one of her friends and her friend had brought her little sister along who was only like five, six years old. and they saw an ambulance go by with the lights on

and go through a red light. Yeah. And the little girl was like, can they do that? Can they go through the light? And she goes, yeah. She goes, they're allowed to do that. When they have the lights on, they can go through the red light. And then she goes, and sometimes my dad does too. And so that's a big deal that Memrise All Play.

Because like, you know, when you're shooting movies or TV, you can go scene for scene. It's a big deal, right? Getting that all in your head. Yeah, but I also find like it's, it's, I just think it's going to be fun. Yeah. And I met with some of the actors and we were already like-

Who was it, you and Bob and Kieran and who else? Is it Catovalli or no? No, Michael McKeon. Oh. So it's those four people. I think Bobby Catovalli did it. He's done it before. Yeah.

I definitely talked to him. He's been helping me through it. And, but like, you know, we were hanging out and we've just, just the bust and chops that was already me through it. And, but like, you know, we were hanging out and we've just, just the, the bust and chops that was already happening. It was really good natured and funny. Like, like Michael, I'm so happy to be working with you. I mean, Bob, I don't want to work with Bob.

It's just like that level of shit, you know, just fucking around. And it just seems like it's, it's gonna be, I just think it's gonna be a lot of fun. So when does it, so you haven't even started rehearsals yet? Yeah, we start rehearsals beginning of February and then mid-March it starts going. And so you locked into New York for like what,

a month of rehearsals and then you go? Yeah, something like that, six weeks or whatever. So I just figure it like, you know, everybody's getting off. It's kind of cool, dude, like the Better Call Saul Breaking Bad sort of connection that we all have. And like someone was saying that they had talked to Brian, asked for advice, and he said, you know, be off book, be off book so all of your rehearsal time

is working on the character. So if Brian says something, you do it. Right, for sure. Because that fucking guy's unbelievable. He is, he's great. I just watched a whole series again. So funny when you were on the plane the other day and I didn't even know you were sitting behind me. That was so funny and then you stood up

and that guy looks like Mark Maron. Yeah. Oh shit, Mark. And I was just rewatched Breaking Bad. So literally I'm watching you on TV and then I get up and like oh shit there he is yeah so now I gotta go back in the house and find that fucking thing. You have beautiful woodwork in this house. Thank you so much. I wish it was a little easier on your drawers. Alright Bill good seeing you, man. All right, buddy. I'll see you.

There you go. Again, tickets are on sale now for Glengarry Glen Ross on Broadway and also Bill's special Drop Dead Years premieres on Hulu on March 14th. Hang out for a second, folks. It's time to take the stress out of renting and home buying thanks to the Redfin app. Redfin makes it fun to search all the homes for sale and apartments for rent in your neighborhood. If you find a place you love, Redfin makes it easy to go see it in person. Just schedule a tour right from the app. Plus, if you're looking to sell, Redfin agents know how to get you the best price possible

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I wear my Dürer pants to work, out with friends, on hiking trails, and everywhere in between. If you haven't tried Dewar, you've got to feel the difference for yourself. Head to Dewar.ca slash Comfort and get 20% off your first purchase today. That's Dewar.ca slash Comfort. Hey folks, long time listeners probably know Dan Pashman. He used to work with me at Air America Radio and we've had him on over the years when he became the host of his own podcast, The Sporkful. Last week, The Sporkful turned 15 years old and Dan was on the Friday show with Brendan

and Chris, which is available now for full Marin listeners. Back in 2010, it was the Stone Ages of podcasting. And Mark was our first celebrity guest. And so I emailed the people at Apple podcast that back then it was iTunes to see if they would feature Mark's appearance on the Sporkful in their big promotional carousel. Now today here in 2025, there are whole teams of marketing and PR people

who are lobbying Apple to get features in this carousel. It is prime real estate. You cannot buy it. It's only up to the editorial discretion of the, what is actually a group of people at Apple. But back in 2010, you literally just emailed a guy named Steve. Steve Jobs? Not that Steve, Steve Wilson. But, and you were like, Hey Steve, I'm this guy, Dan, I have a podcast called The Sporkful, Mark Maran, famous podcaster, is going to be on my show in a couple of weeks and he'd be like, Oh cool.

Yeah, sure. Just here's the specs. Send me the art. And that was it. You know, and that was how we got featured in Apple in 2010 was that I literally just emailed Steve and he said, okay. To hear the full episode with Dan Pashman and get bonus episodes twice a week, sign up for the full Marin.

Go to the link in the episode description or go to WTFPod.com and click on WTF+. And a reminder before we go, this podcast is hosted by Acast. Here's a bit of guitar work from the vault. Yeah. So I'm gonna be a man. Boomer lives! Bunky and LaFonda! Cat Angels everywhere!