WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1625 - Mike Elias

Episode Date: March 13, 2025

When Mike Elias wanted to learn the guitar, his dad told him he had to teach himself. Mike took that rule and ran with it for the rest of his life, teaching himself everything from sewing to metal fabrication to fashion design, which he deployed when he founded Ship John Leather and Canvas in Portland, Oregon, and created one of the most sought after garments in the world, the Wills Jacket. Mike tells Marc about growing up oyster fishing and hunting in New Jersey, why he wound up making clothing, and the violent attack that changed his life. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Note that this grant is only disbursed after teachers arrive to New Zealand and meets the other accompanying criteria. I travel a lot, especially lately during this tour. I mean, I've been to Boulder, Colorado, Fort Collins, Colorado, Missouri, Kansas City, heading out more in the days to come. And if you've got any travel coming up, an Airbnb co-host can take care of everything. So you can host your place on Airbnb while you're away. They'll create the listing for you, manage your reservations, and stay in touch with

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Welcome to it. It's one of the originals. That's what I'm told. I just watched a documentary about myself. Last night, I'm in Austin, Texas. Hopefully I'll be home, I guess it will be today when you hear about this. I've been on the road for a week

and that doesn't sound like a lot, but every day is at least two to three days in road years when you're out here and I'm ready to get home. I get a little isolated, a little strangely lonely out here. But here's what's going on. Let me tell you what's going on today. A couple of things. My special taping has been announced. I'll be doing two shows at the BAM Harvey Theater in Brooklyn on Saturday, May 10th, 7 p.m. and 930 p.m. There's a pre-sale going on today from 10 a.m. to 10 p.m.

Eastern Time Pre-sale code is all in all caps One word tickets are on sale to the general public tomorrow Friday, March 14th. So first off let's go into who's on the show today because this is an interesting episode of WTF because I talked to a Guy, he's not the kind of guy usually talked to I mean he's as a person he is but he's not in entertainment He's not in music He's not a writer, but he is a guy I would what would you call him a craftsman a craftsman of clothing of accessories he makes things he wants to make out of

brass and out of fabric and out of leather his name is Mike Elias and he is the proprietor and creator and designer for a place called Ship John. That is up in Portland, Oregon. I've mentioned it before because I wear his stuff all the time and it's not because I have to, it just fits me and it suits me. But he's got an interesting story. This is sort of a Delray, Dean, Delray,

turned me on to Ship John years ago. Dean's kind of a fashion plate. Dean is a guy who's always a, of a certain type. I mean, it's not for everybody, but there's a world that Dean exists in that has to do with boots, watches, jackets, and eyeglass frames, I would say are the primary things. Guitars as well, he knows about.

He knows about a lot of well, he knows about. He knows about a lot of things, t-shirts. But one time we were up in Portland and he was opening for me and he knew this guy that had a little workshop in a very small little workshop store. And he designed jackets. I was kind of into the jacket idea.

It was a jacket that Dean had. He did some shirts, but I was already on board with jacket idea was a Jacket that Dean had he did some shirts But I was already on on board with Philson from many years ago from probably 20 25 years ago And this guy was in the same zone as that I wouldn't call it work clothes. Some of it is sort of work oriented But he made this jacket Called the wills jacket and it's a very specific and unique design and it's fucking awesome. And oddly, Mike, ship John himself, designed that jacket 10 years ago.

It's the 10th anniversary of the Will's jacket tomorrow. And a lot of you are like, who cares? What is that? What does that mean? It's some guy who makes a jacket. Well, you know, to all of us, no matter what we do, when there are, are sort of, uh, markers of our life, of our career, of our art or whatever it is, it's a big deal and this jacket is sort of a big deal and I'll, I'll, uh, I'll validate that.

I will, I will, I will say it's a big deal to me. I wear the thing all the time. And it's a unique thing. But ultimately, it leads to a bigger conversation. He also gave me an oiled tin cloth shirt that I wore on Colbert, that was way too hot. It was really not that kind of shirt. But since then, like, there's a, I'm wearing Ship John stuff most of the time,

whether it's the shirt or the jacket occasionally a hat he just sent me the ship john version of a of a utility knife of a stanley knife which he has an obsession with which we'll talk to but the story is interesting because he didn't set out to do this you know he comes from a oyster fisherman family in new jersey and the story is great and he's a real like he had to learn this craft not unlike anybody who has to do something creative or that they're possessed to do and The arc of the story is pretty fucking interesting and I deal with them all the time. We we exchange records we you know, we hang out when I'm in Portland or he's down here and We hang out when I'm in Portland or he's down here.

And there's a lot of stuff that he's involved with. Like I've always been a little, I've always felt like a little bit of a fraud when I wear boots and jackets that are sort of meant for, hard work, which is sort of why he created the jackets. But there is a look to it and it's just something I've landed on. I'm not going to feel too guilty about it any more than I feel about my personality in general in terms of being a fraud.

I mean it's a tricky thing and after just seeing that documentary, I've got some answers about me and they're not the easiest to sort of take. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has a lot on their plate right now if you're also trying to manage the many things you've got going. One way to simplify everything is to put the experts at SimpliSafe in charge of your home security. We've been using SimpliSafe for almost a decade and not only do they give us peace of mind, they always provide the best most up-to-date methods for protecting your home. For example, SimpliSafe's Active Guard outdoor protection can help prevent break-ins before

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Steve Fine Arts premiered the documentary about my life and focusing a lot on the loss of Lynn Shelton to everybody that loved her, including me, and sort of, you know, who I am. And I have ideas about who I am, and sometimes those don't really match up with reality. I would say that's probably true most of the time. And I kinda talked about how my first viewing

of the doc was a humbling experience, but to see it again was even more humbling and sad. And entertaining, I mean, I could see it was funny and how it would be funny and touching to people. But to me, kind of re-engaging with the grief, but in re-engaging with what I was going through, and re-engaging with building a comedy set from that was heavy, but I gotta be honest with you,

the stuff that had the most impact on me, and I imagine some people, certainly the newer generations, have experience with this, but we didn't. I mean, I'm 61 years old, and there was a period in time when I started doing comedy in the 80s where there were VHSs of me that were existing. They existed, I had them.

I had not looked at them in many years, and there was stuff I shot at my house with the family's home video camera. And that to me was really oddly the most disturbing stuff to watch in a kind of cringy way. The emotional stuff that I'd gone through in the past four years or five years was not. I could re-engage with that. But all the early stuff of me trying to figure out who I was on stage and really trying to figure out who I was as a person

is a little tough to watch because the truth is, and I speak to specific people who are either self-aware of this or suspected, if you didn't grow up in an emotionally grounded household that was relatively healthy, where you were enabled to kind of complete yourself, it's a rough go. And you try on a lot of personality pieces, you try on a lot of jackets and shirts and boots, you try a lot of haircuts. You try a lot of glasses

frames. You try a lot of music. You read books about like how to be who you are. It's a very specific type. I don't think it's unusual and I don't think it's unusual in my audience, but it's a real thing. So to see myself at different stages in age, but also at different stages and trying to find a voice as a comic, it was a little much. And it really kind of fucked with me while I was watching the show, because then I'm watching this whole thing and I'm like, you know, am I still doing that? Have I landed in me? I mean, I would hope so. And the truth is, I have. And it's not great. It's not, you know, I know your experience of me is what it is, and I give you as much of myself as I can, which is not nothing, it's an awful lot.

Seeing how I am from an outside perspective was really, it was kind of daunting because many of you know over the years of listening to me, my need to, or propensity or compulsion to compare myself to other comics, to think that why am I not more popular in a broader way? And the thing is I never really set out to do that and I always was kind of against it.

So what was interesting about watching this thing is I'm exactly really what I set out to be, but there's always this other part of you that judges your, it's not even a grass is greener kind of thing, it's more like that guy seems to have his shit together on all levels and look at him presenting himself and being broadly popular and making a fortune

and being good at what he does. Why am I not that guy? So that's not really a grass is greener in the sort of traditional sense. It's just sort of like, why can't I be a whole person that seems to be in control of their being? Why? Why why am I always falling horizontally? Why is my brain on fire all the time? Why am I always?

Catastrophizing and thinking the worst of myself why I have answered to these questions Some of them that I've talked about on this show. I have frameworks that I've used over time, psychological and recovery stuff, but it still kind of eats me. What I think I'm for everybody on some level, but the truth is, is I'm not. So what was kind of revelatory

about watching this documentary about me is that I'm turning into this, I wouldn't say eccentric character, but a character nonetheless. And I've always noticed, particularly with presidents who start out young and then get old, that there is a turning point somewhere between 55 and 65 where they become the phase before the end form.

Not old old, but like, oh, this is the beginning of old. I can see it in their disposition, their hair, the wrinkles on their face, and you notice this with actors and everything else, but it's sort of hard to notice for yourself. But I'm on the outside of middle age here, and I'm watching this movie, and some things haven't changed, but some things aren't gonna change.

And at a certain point, some things, you know, you're gonna have to just accept about who you are. It is a whole package. And it's been sort of like that way for a while. So I think the big lesson for me was like, all right, well, whatever I thought I was gonna be, and whatever on occasion I still think I could be

or still think I should be, is not relevant to the fact that I am who I am for better or for worse. And that I think that getting to that point sooner than later with yourself Is probably a good thing to kind of like give yourself a break a little bit The fact is I'm doing exactly what I've always wanted to do and I'm doing it exactly the way I want to do it And so and there is really no other way Yet that voice persists.

So removing that guy from the equation means that there's some radical self-acceptance that has to happen. And I guess it happened. I think it happened because of this doc. And it's such a weird emotional documentary portrait of me that when it was over, you kind of get that feeling like, well it's sad this guy died. You know, when I had to go up on stage with Steven after the movie, I got up and I'm like,

this guy's still alive? There was a moment where I'm like, I'm still alive. This is not one of those docs where you're like, God, I wish I, I'm glad I've been introduced to his work, but it's sad that he's gone. No, I'm here and I'm walking up to the stage right now. So it was an exciting weekend and I was wearing a Ship John shirt

when I got up on the stage because it seems that the Ship John shirts seemed to fit the me who I am currently and presently and it seems to be pretty much all of me and the guy who designed that shirt is on the show today. So it is as I said before tomorrow, March 14th is the 10th anniversary of the ShipJohn Wills jacket and ShipJohn is releasing a special decade edition of the jacket tomorrow. You can check it out at ShipJohn Wills jacket. And ShipJohn is releasing a special decade edition of the jacket tomorrow. You can check it out at shipjohn.us.

It might not be easy to get one and you might have to wait for it. But let's get into the life of Mike now. This is me talking to Mike Elias in the garage. I travel a lot, especially lately during this tour. I mean, I've been to Boulder, Colorado, Fort Collins, Colorado, Missouri, Kansas City, heading out more in the days to come. And if you've got any travel coming up, an Airbnb co-host can take care of everything.

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But I wear, like, they're like, in terms of on stage, I've been wearing this tour, I wear that shirt that you got on, but doesn't look like that. So you did that on purpose? Well, I've been, I've just been wearing this nonstop for the last two and a half years. And you wash it? Yeah. Yeah. I just wash my shit when it's stinky.

Yeah, and then it just fades out like that. Yeah. Now what is that fabric called? A sashiko ori. It's kind of the, if you look at Japanese kendo gi's, it's the fabric they made for that. Okay, so now an idea like that, now that's a, like a fairly traditional Western cut shirt

and you get hip to this fabric because of you got people in Japan. I got some people in Japan and I fell in love with a shirt in Japan that was made out of this. Yeah. Bought it. Yeah. It was a small company over there, bought the shirt and then got back here and you could only find a really thin version of this.

That's here made in America. The fabric is not made in America. Right, but the idea of the fabric is supposed to be that fabric, but that fabric that you found here was not made in Japan either, was it? It was made in Thailand, I think. Some knockoff of this and really accessible. a lot of the shirts you see made like this are made out of that kind of cheaper version. Right.

But this one's heavy, man. It's heavy. And once I set my sights on kind of what I want to make something out of, I just need to do that. I can't cut the corners and get the shitty version. So for this vision of this particular shirt, you've got to track down a manufacturer in Japan. Yeah.

And you found a guy. Yeah, I found a guy. They still make it the traditional way. What do you mean? They grind the stuff to make the dye. And then I've watched Instagram reels of things that are either Chinese or Japanese, where they start with rocks. This starts with a plant, it's indigo.

However, I don't know the exact process. They spin the yarn. Yeah, it's like crazy to watch it. It is insane. And you know, this is a machine made. It's not somebody hand making this. Okay, okay. Yeah.

But it is, it's a special version of it in that it's the thick actual. Yeah, it's heavy, man. When I pack that shirt, it takes up a lot of room. Yeah. You've got to make way for it in the suitcase. I bring that shirt on the road now, and I also perform in the Moleskin, that green Moleskin Western evening with the brass buttons.

Those are the two performing shirts for this tour. I'm glad they're with you, buddy. Yeah, they're the Ship John specials. And then I got the Will's jacket. And I guess you just got my booking agent one, Joe. He got one, Joe Schwartz. Oh, shit. Yeah, he just ordered it regular.

Oh, cool. I didn't hook you up. But I guess he got it shortened a little bit. And he said, yeah, it seemed really long. I'm like, that's because Mike cuts everything to fit him. Everything could be a little long. I mean, the whole basis of the brand is just shit that I want. Yeah. That's right. Everything I've ever designed is something that I see missing

in the world or existed, but they don't make it the same way anymore. So I'll just, you know, the shirt is the, it's not a complete copy, but the old US made Wrangler shirts. Okay. They were cut trim, they were denim, they were good denim. Right. And at a certain point they started making them elsewhere and made them out of shitty denim. And then it turns to garbage.

So I was like, those are now missing in the world. Yeah. I stopped making good ones. So that's when I started making my version. Well, I think this shirt's a pre-sewout Filson. Gotcha. Yeah. I mean, the history of that company is- The tragedy of that company. It's yeah, I'm not sure I mean the history there's so much good history in Filson It's an inspiration for a small little brand like me like what they've done over the years

Yeah, well, I mean like wait. Well, so where does it start though? I mean cuz I know I know you're just a Jersey guy Yeah. Yeah, but like not not North Jersey, I come from North Jersey. I come from, well I always say I don't come from Joy-Z, I come from Jersey. Yeah, where? So, Divided Creek, it's called, it's a little small town in, the closest town people seem to know is Vineland. Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

I don't, man. I mean, I know, here's what I know. I know Bergen County and I know the Jersey Shore and I know Jersey City So I know, you know Patterson Wayne Pompton Lakes Haskell Butler up where my grandparents were and I know Jersey City and then I know like Monmouth County gotcha. Yeah, see I'm two and a half hours which way out of Monmouth Yeah, well, where's Monmouth? Is that central? It's on the, it's a beach. It's like it's on the water. It's by Asbury. Oh, okay. Yeah.

So yeah, at least an hour and a half to from there. You know where Cape May is all the way down the bottom? No, but like what's the, what's the bottom of Jersey? That little dingle that hang? Yeah, sure. So that's Cape May. Yeah. I'm on the Delaware Bay side, half hour north of there. Okay. On the bay. So that's Cape May. Yeah. I'm on the Delaware Bay side Half hour north of there. Okay on the bay. So that's barely Jersey. No, it's real. That's actually Jersey So we're gonna have an argument about what's real Jersey, it's not where Bruce Springsteen comes from now No, it's not. It's not but what is it right up against Delaware then the Delaware Bay So if you cross the bay from where I'm at, you'll hit Delaware. Yeah.

You know. So what do you, are you, you're on the water then? On the water. My dad's an oysterman, crab, commercial fisherman. Oyster guy. Yeah, oyster guy. So you grew up with oysters? Yeah, my first job was on an oyster boat.

Really? Is that where Ship John comes from? Yeah, Ship John is a lighthouse right in the middle of the Delaware Bay called Ship John Shoal. And that was kind of a point of reference when we're fishing as a young kid or working. We're south of Ship John today, north of Ship John, you know, that kind of thing. So wait, this was before oyster farms?

They're farmed. Yeah, they are. You know, but they do it- Even back then? They do it differently out there where they'll dump the shells on the ground and then dredge the oysters. Whereas on the West Coast, like on the Willapa Bay, the tide will go down and they actually string the shells up and pick the oysters. Oh, okay.

In some instances. So the hipsters figure out a way to pick oysters. The hipsters do. I don't know. Yeah. I'm just... I don't know. I just know that when you go to up the coast, up outside of Northern California and stuff that, and up into Washington, you get all these different kinds of oysters. It just seems like someone got the idea to breed these things and then put them on strings

so you could pick them off. Yeah. Yeah, you just go out there and pick them like tomatoes. But that's not the old school way. No, I mean, old, old school, they would tong them. They'd have these long tongs where they'd, you know, I think 12, 15 foot tongs. Yeah.

They'd just reach down there and yank them out. And just pull as many as they could. So this is more efficient. Yeah, the dredges are more efficient for sure. Because Jersey, are they the big oysters? Yeah, medium, not giant. Yeah, because there's some. And then you've got all the clamming,

no clamming in the family. There's a little bit of, not in our family history. Maybe my dad's grandpa or something like that would clam. Yeah, none of those big co-hogs or steamers, what are the steamers, those little ones, little necks? They're good. Yeah, that's what I remember about the Jersey shores, go get in those bucket of steamers.

Melted butter on those things. Yeah, just pull the thing off the tongue You eat you still eat shellfish. I haven't eaten shit. I haven't eaten any of the any of the meats Sea or land. What do you get a canter two years? They actually make it now Well, yeah, I mean, it's only been a couple years, but they make a vegan ruben there. That's fucking awesome. No shit Yeah, okay some companies doing a like a vegan vegan ruben there that's fucking awesome. No shit. Yeah, some companies doing a vegan corned beef facsimile,

which is just with the spices, and then you can get the sauerkraut, vegan Russian dressing, avocado instead of cheese, they grill it, it's fucking fine. I bet it's good. I don't know, I don't miss the meat, what am I gonna tell you? You don't have to.

So how'd you avoid becoming a fisherman? I moved to Philadelphia. But what was the incentive tell you? You don't have to. So how'd you avoid becoming a fisherman? I moved to Philadelphia. But what was the incentive, you got brothers and sisters? Yeah, they're all still kind of around that zone. They're not fishermen, brothers work at, they're labors, they work on the highways, they fix the roads up and down New Jersey. Oh yeah?

Bridges and shit like that. And your dad's still around or no? Yeah, he's still around, he's still working on boats. He's still on the boats? Yeah, he won't quit. He's still working on boats. He's still on the boat? Yeah, he won't quit. So oysters and what else? Crabs. He used to go out on the Scallop boats every once in a while.

Scallops? That was like maybe two weeks out in the ocean. So he's like a bottom feeder guy. Yeah, he gets what we want from the bottom. Yeah, yeah. So you get those Delaware crabs? Yeah, the blue point. Or not blue, sorry, blue crab. Yeah, yeah, blue crab. What are those other ones that they're the bigger ones?

Dungeness. Dungeness, that's West Coast. That's up by, near you are by Washington, right? They're so damn good. They are good. You get one of them. And then what those ones down in Florida, like Joe's crabs, those bigger,

there's another type of crab down there where it's kind of like a Dungeness. I never eat crabs in Florida. Yeah, well, you gotta go to Joe's Crab those bigger, there's another type of crab down there where it's kind of like a Dungeness. I never eat crabs in Florida. Yeah, well you gotta go to Joe's Crab Shack or whatever. I'll make a trip. It's a big deal. It's a big deal, those crabs. I feel like I've heard of it, but I never realized what kind of crabs they do have down there. Yeah, so you're basically in a family of fishermen.

Yep. And everyone's kind of hanging out, and what makes you want to get the fuck out of there? I just didn't quite. I love the way I grew up. We grew up, you know, rabbit hunting, deer hunting, fishing, all that kind of, it's the woods. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Bow hunting or gun hunting?

A little both. Yeah? Yeah. So you can handle a bow? I can handle a bow. It's been a long time. Yeah. So you can handle a bow? I can handle a bow. It's been a long time. Yeah. And what do you guys do? Shoot like one deer a year?

Nowadays, I don't want to give out any secrets on how many deer. They fill the freezer up. Yeah. And that's pretty much all the meat they're eating. For the year? Yeah. Or for six months? Yeah, for the year, honestly.

Yeah. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. Same with rabbits rabbits too? We'd eat rabbits sometimes. We'd give them to some of the poor families around. We kinda did it for sport.

They never went to waste. So you grew up shooting those guns? Yeah. Yeah, 22s, shotguns, big ones? Shotguns, some rifles, handguns for fun. Yeah, yeah. Gun shot in the hand one time with a.22. What did that do to you?

I think there's a little shard of it still in there. But it wasn't, my buddy sprayed the shell sitting there with the hairspray torch. Yeah. He sprayed a shell of it sitting there and it shot me in the hand, like a dumb dumb. Oh, that's some fun kid stuff. Fun kid shit.

What do you think was gonna happen? I don't know if he did think. Yeah. Yeah. So you really grew up in that sort of rugged outdoor working class world. Yeah, yeah, just middle of the fucking woods and riding dirtbags, fishing, hunting.

From when you were a kid. Yeah, yeah. Because there's something about Ship John, and it's always been the way with me in certain clothing, in that I know I'm not living the life that the clothing honors. So I've gotta temper my purchases to acknowledge the fashion

and not come off as a poser of any kind. I don't really buy into any of that shit. I just think if somebody wants to wear something, wear it. The thing about it is, is like I didn't come from the fashion world at all. No, I know, I know, yeah. So it's just like, these are the clothes that I think are nice right will last a long time

Whoever wants to wear them, you know now I the like workwear fashion is kind of a big thing It's been one for a little while and then we have people who buy our shit and actually beat the hell out of it You know, so for real for the work real. Yeah, well, I think Philson's the same way Yeah, but like I just remember I used to do a joke a million years ago when you know shirts, you know work shirts We're getting popular back The first time when I was in college These guys would get these shirts with like someone's name on it and I had a joke about like yeah That must have belonged to somebody who had a job So you got a job kind of didn't you know

well, you know, I'm just careful like I had an experience where and I've told the story before but not too many times where you know, I'm just careful. Like, I had an experience where, and I've told the story before, but not too many times, where, you know, I was in Boston, and one of the DJs who used to show up at comedy shows to kind of promote him, he always had these amazing leather jackets, and Vanson Leathers was in Quincy. So I'm like, well, I asked him, I said, where'd you get it? And he's like, you gotta go out to Quincy to Vance and so I'm like I'm going out there

I'm gonna go to the source, you know And I remember, you know trying on a jacket and a guy like fitting me like he was there. He says he says He says, you know, well if you're gonna be traveling pretty high speeds You're probably want something that fits a little snugger than this. I'm like, I'm looking for something a sweater. I'll fit I'm like, I'm looking for something a sweater I'll fit in. I'm going to be doing a lot of walking in this. Did you feel like you were appropriating motorcycle culture with that thing on? Of course. Yeah.

But like, there was one I wore a lot, but I always have a problem with sweat. I think Dino ended up with, Delray ended up with both of those. I think I just gave them to him if he wanted to sort of move them or sell them. Because the one I really liked, like I sweat through, so now I got to really, I don't sweat as much as I used to. I may be more relaxed. That's the meat. You got rid of the meat?

Maybe, I think I got rid of the stress too, some of it, in terms of the nerves that made me sweat. But with leathers, they're porous, so if you sweat through a leather, it'll get that you know that You know that salt stain on it and it fucks it up. There's nothing you can you can't get rid of it It wants to stay there. It's gonna fuck it up and hide it. It'll show its face again. Yeah Yeah, you can't you can redye it I guess but it was just it bummed me out. Yeah, but that's why when I got that um, I Think I got some fabric from you,

like the most waterproof fabric you had, you just sent me a little piece of it. I don't remember, cause I wanted them to sew armpit things into that suede thing. I remember that now. That was that jacket in there? Yeah, the old one. The Japanese one, no.

Oh, the Japanese one. The Y2. I had a guy, the tailor I know, kind of fabricate some sweat things. That was a sweat? Yeah, to put it inside it. Just so to have a little boundary so I don't fuck the suede up. Oh shit, alright. Yeah.

Makes sense now. Yeah, that was that idea. So okay, so what do you do in Philadelphia? Work in odd jobs. I was a valet parker. You just wanted to go to Philly because it was a big city? Yeah, well I was into skating and I... like rollerblading actually, not skateboarding.

I was into rollerblading. Really? That doesn't seem like a man's game. I thought it was. But I did that when I was a kid and I kind of... You're not doing pools on roller skaters? No, yeah, all that shit. Oh, you can do them on the... Handrails and all that.

With the rollerblades? Yeah. No, yeah, all that shit. Oh, you can do them on the- Handrails and all that. With the rollerblades? Yeah. Okay, but how'd the guys on skateboards look at the rollerbladers? They didn't like us, if I'm being honest. But I did get one of the guys who built FDR said I was the only, FDR's a skate park in Philadelphia, made by skateboarders.

Yeah. And I knew how to skate concrete, so he noticed that. And he was like, you're the only roller blader allowed. Oh, really? So I got a little badge from them. Who was that skater that I met that knew you at Canter's? Oh, that was Matt. Yeah.

Isn't he a skate guy? Of rollerblading, yeah. Oh, he's a roller blading guy. Yeah. You didn't know you were hanging out with a roller blader, did you? Well, I knew he did something. He's a roller boy guy. Yeah, you know you're hanging out with the rollerblader. Did you why I knew he did something? He's a sweet dude, man. He's the kind of guy who like

Takes care of the kids, you know He like makes sure ever everybody feels good about like what they even if they they suck at what they're doing He'll back him up and he bought my dinner dude. That's sweet. Yeah sweet guy. He's good, dude Yeah, he's not good. He was a competitive rollerblader, that guy? Yeah, at a certain point. He's owned a skate shop for a long time. Boards? Helps the community out. And blades?

Just blades. I think maybe skateboards out in Bakersfield. You never did the skateboard thing? I'd skateboarded, too. Yeah? Yeah. Competitively? No, no, no, no.

Can you go up the side of a pool and then turn around and come down? Yeah, I could still do that. Probably shouldn't do that. I was like... Were you a punk rock guy? A little bit. I delved into like East Coast hardcore for a little bit. You had to, right? With the skates? But maybe not quite as hard with that.

I mean, it didn't really tie in. That all came from my brother. You know, he was real into the... Older brother? Older brother, yeah. He was, what's he, nine years older than I am, so he fed me all the fugazis, and like the New York hardcore, H2O, and all that shit.

How old are you? I'm 43. Oh, you're a fucking kid. That's crazy. How do you pronounce your last name? Elias. Elias. Because I was going with the...

I knew it could have been Elias or Elias. A lot of people go Elias, but Elias. Elias. Elias. Yeah. And that's a family name. Yeah. All right.

So what occurs, because like your journey as a clothing manufacturer is a little peculiar, isn't it? It is not the way a lot of people go about it. So you're skating and you're working in restaurants in Philadelphia. Then I was a bike messenger and then I was parking cars, doing those jobs where you give cigarettes out at bars and stuff like that. At a certain point my wife and I... You were with her back then?

We met in Philadelphia. Okay. Yeah. We decided it was time to get the fuck out of Philadelphia. This is around 2004 or 2005, something like that. So we hopped in a Volkswagen van, believe it or not, for us, 79, and headed west and just traveled the country. Had no sights on anywhere.

Where to live? No, we just left. Yeah. and so you did a crossroad trip? Yeah, we were up across the country three, four times, up and down, I don't know, zigzags. But that was the idea, we're just going to live off the land for a year? We wanted to move somewhere, but we didn't know where. OK.

Sure. We thought about the desert. We thought about West Texas. Oh, yeah. We thought about the desert. We thought about West Texas. Oh, yeah. Like Marfa? Like more like there's this little town called Terlingua. It's a hippie town. Uh-huh. Near Big Bend and all that shit. Okay. Yeah. It's real pretty down there. Yeah. But I'm glad I didn't stay there. Stay in Texas? Yeah. But you hung out for a while? Hung out there for a little bit. Hung out in California for a little bit. Just zigging around. What were you doing for money?

Playing guitar. Really? On the street, yeah. That's... And racking up credit card debt. How'd you do on the street with the guitar? I mean, I never made a shit ton of money, but I'd make enough for a little gas or burgers.

So you've been playing a long time. Yeah, yeah. Well, I wanted to play when I was a kid. My dad always played guitar. Yeah. And I'm gonna call him out for this, but I was like, Dad, can you teach me how to play guitar? And he was like, I taught myself you can teach your damn self. So that was the, that's your guiding principle. I gotta teach myself. Honestly, kind of. It stuck with me. I taught myself how to play guitar in late teens,

early twenties. Yeah. Just kind of like folk stuff. Sure. What did he play? Your classic rock and roll. Oh yeah, yeah. You know, like Pusha Man and some Zeppelin stuff.

Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah. On acoustic? On acoustic. Oh, that's nice. On acoustic, yeah. So that was always happening in the house. Oh, that's good.

But, all right, so you're playing guitar on the street. So you're living this kind of pseudo-hippie lifestyle. A little bit, I mean. Pretty groovy? Yeah, I wasn't like a hippie per se. Yeah. Well, no, but you know, just kind of free spirit. Sure.

Right. And how do you get up to Portland? We had to meet somebody there. We had a job at a skate camp, actually, actually for a summer because we ran out of money. This is in Datchby, California. Met some friends there. They invited us to work on their farm up in Humboldt. Pop farm?

Yeah, trimming. Yeah. So you did that? You're picking buds? Picking buds, trimming buds. This would be for hydroponic, right? It was out in the wild This is in the woods. Yeah, so illegal pot farm in the way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah

Yeah, how that must have been pretty because I remember that was where all the good pot came from for a while before Yeah, it was back in the day when I still use drugs You know, I remember when when like, you know, like since sensei—like, when buds came. Yeah. Like, they were rare. I mean, like, all of a sudden you're getting these fucking humboldt buds. Yeah, before that it's just like whatever kind of shake in a little bag. But it was—it was in my lifetime that sensomia became the thing. Yeah.

Right? It used to be like they didn't sell that shit. It was crazy. I don't even know why. I don't know the history of weed. I mean, it always came in buds. Maybe they just ground it down to stretch it. Who the hell knows? Mix the leaves in, something like that.

There's the shit with the shake, with the good stuff. But yeah, but when those hydroponic, it was hydroponic too. That came out of Canada. But when the humble weed came, I was still smoking weed, and it was pretty exciting. That was like the place. I knew guys who came from up in that area

played in a band called Dieselhead. You remember that band? Oh, you would like that band, actually. I'll check them out. There's only like two records, but they were kind of this odd bunch of guys who were playing around San Francisco that did kind of a hillbilly, punky kind of,

not really hillbilly, but it's hard to describe them, but I kind of knew those guys and they were all kinda humble kids. Yeah. So you're up in Humboldt, picking buds? Doing that, and then before we went there, we had to meet somebody in Portland, so we're in Portland for one day.

Two days maybe. Yeah. And then went down there, got done with that, and we're like, you wanna go check, at least check Portland out a little bit more, it seemed nice. What year is that? We sat up there, that was 06. Okay.

Yeah, 06, yeah. So that's sort of peak Portland. It was good, it was good. So you get up there, you're like, this is it? Felt groovy? We kinda just, you know, we were living in the van on not like four blocks from where my shop is now, just in a parking lot.

And we didn't have any computers or anything. So we'd go to this little coffee shop and look at their like community computer, try to find jobs and places to live. And I ended up finding that I got a job at Stumptown. The coffee place, the original Stumptown. I went into the original one to apply. I didn't know what a fucking latte was. I walked in.

I was wearing like the same vest as the guy Blake working, same plaid. And I'm like, you guys hiring? He's like, yeah, actually we are. Yeah. Trained up and started making coffee and worked there. And you're doing your pulling espresso?

Pulling espresso. Yeah. That's what you do in Portland. So at that time, Stumptown was the only good coffee There were some other ones starting but that was before they got really huge oddly Stumptown for whatever reason is still very good coffee Oh, it's great coffee, and I can't ever figure out what it is But there I guess the magic is in the roast and it's beans, but like you if you drink Stumptown You're like oh, this is Stumptown. Yeah, it has a flavor It's all of them. They don't fuck it up, you know, like yeah, I don't over roast it. They don't under roast it Right. It's a magic. Yeah, you gotta find the magic numbers. Everybody roast coffee

Intelligentsia is sort of the same way they make a great Yeah, they make a good coffee where you can actually tell this is Intelligentsia no matter what being it is. Sure, sure. Yeah, so stump signature roasts. Right, I don't even know, but I don't get how that works. So you're at the only Stumptown. No, at that point they had three of them. And only in Portland, it wasn't like a nationwide or worldwide thing at that point.

But it was cool because everybody rad in Portland, it was the best coffee in Portland at the time. So everybody came in, so it was the best coffee in Portland at the time. So everybody came in. So I got, that was my intro to Portland. I got to meet all these amazing folks, musicians, artists, all these people. Like, I became part of the community of Portland pretty quick. As a, like a guitar guy or just a guy? As the guy who made people's coffee at that point. But made some friends, you know?

And it was a good intro to the city. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Whereas I don't know, if I never got that job, I only worked there for a year, but if I never got that job, I don't know. What would happen? Because when I started making shit, like all my friends who I met through the coffee shop started buying the shit and just kind of branched out from there. But how does that happen?

You're just a dude who's got no real vision. And when do you like make your first shit? What compels you to do that? It's always been the same thing. It's always been like I mentioned earlier with the shirt. Yeah, but still there's a big jump between this isn't around anymore and- Well, that's how it started too.

You know, so at the time I was real into cycling too. Bicycles. Oh bicycles, yeah, yeah, yeah. Riding bicycles around and you know those little cycling hats with the little brim? Yeah. You couldn't find those without a big fucking logo on the side.

Right. And I've never been a big fucking logo guy. Yeah. So I wanted to make my own cycling hats without a logo. So that was the first thing. Started selling those. At the time I was like wanted to make my own cycling hats without a logo. So that was the first thing. Started selling those. At the time I was like starting to make wallets and shit like that, but that was like the... With what? Just your hands? Shitty sewing machine I had. So you didn't know how to sew though? You figured it out?

Not really. I just started sewing shitties. So you took a bike hat and you took it apart. Basically, yeah. Took it apart. Altered the pattern a little bit, made it fit my big old head, and started sewing them up. You know, I fucked a bunch of stuff up. But that's all, that's like your dad, you know, you got to teach yourself. So you got a shitty sewing machine, you're taking apart pieces of clothing so you can figure out patterns, and you made bike hats. Made bike hats. That turned into... patterns. And you made bike hats. I made bike hats.

That turned into... That became popular, your bike hats? Well, I met one of the best bicycle builders in Portland, Sasha White, still one of my best friends. He's building these phenomenal handmade bikes. And I went into his shop and he asked me about my hat. And he liked it. He wanted a wool.

Yeah. And then he was like, can you do a run for vanilla, for vanilla bicycles? Yeah. I was like, shit, yeah. Hell yeah. This guy's like my craftsperson hero. Yeah. Yeah.

And that turned into me making bicycles with him. So I started to learn metal work. So, okay, so you do the hats. Do the hats. And you, but you're making one hat at a time. Yeah, yeah, I think I did like 25 hats for him or something. That was the run. That was a huge run for me.

That took you a month. Yeah, worked my ass off on this. Did they sell pretty good? Yeah, they sold out. So now you're in the shop and you're starting to learn how to put together bikes? Yeah, he was starting like a little bit of a production run of bikes and he just needed hands. He's like, you ever run a lathe? And I'm like, no, but I'll fucking figure it out. Same thing with the latte. Like, I can figure out how to make a latte, I can figure out how to run a lathe, right?

So I just go in there and start learning how to fabricate metal. Yeah. So, we're, you know, hand making bicycle frames in a little shop in Portland. And you're welding? He's doing all the brazing at that point. I ended up doing some of it, but, so I'm like prepping all the parts. So, tubes have to fit together with a mitre or some people call it a cope. Yeah. Where the tube kind of wraps around the other tube.

Right. So I'm prepping all those mitres and stuff like that. But you're learning the ropes. Learning the ropes. With the machines. And also a lot of hand work, and I think that's where I really realize what I could do with my hands. Yeah. What kind of hand work on the bikes?

A lot of hand filing. OK, yeah, sure. Some tubes are welded, some are what's called fillet brazing, which is like a brass ramp between the two tubes. Yeah. Which holds the steel together. Yeah. So to make those perfect you have to kind of do a lot of hand filing. Yeah yeah yeah yeah. So you're getting skills. Getting skills and learning how to use my hands and once you kind of realize the hand-eye coordination

and the brain construction coordination, you can apply that in a lot of different ways. Sure. I think that's when my dexterity and my kind of, my brain kind of opened up to how I can use my hands. And you learned to craft, too, though. Learned to craft, yeah. And I still use that. I still make little metal bits.

Yeah, I know. I have some. I have some metal bits. Yeah. Every time you get a. Yeah, I know I have some I have some metal bits. Yeah Every time you get a wild idea. I'm like, oh, yeah. Okay. I need that thing that holds the record down some weird Mike brass bit a bit bit of business That's where my mind's going these days cuz I you know, my mind is always One I I love the clothing that we make but make, but it's hard for me to get excited about another piece of clothing, personally. I mean, I'm excited about putting this stuff out there, but my mind wants to make other

rad shit. Well, okay, so in the world of what you do, so you quit the coffee shop to work at the bike place, and then what happens? So you got this metal skill to work at the bike place. Yeah. And then what happens? So you got this metal skill set, you've made hats. Yeah. So then what's the next jump? The next jump, I started making bags for bicycles. Messenger bags?

No, like a pannier bag that would go on to a bicycle. Oh, on the bike. Out of what, canvas? Like a seatbelt, seatbag, canvas. And leather or no? Little bit of leather. Yeah. Sometimes webbing. So I'm starting to formulate these, What? Canvas? Seat bag, canvas. And leather or no? A little bit of leather. Yeah.

Sometimes webbing. Uh-huh. So I'm starting to formulate these, and the pattern making on those is more straightforward than a garment. Yeah. It's a rectangle here, rectangle there. Sure. Curve here, blah, blah, blah.

Yeah. So I'm starting to formulate a little bit more of an idea of how to construct a pattern. Yeah. Learning about seam allowances more. I'm kind of, and this is all by fucking up. And stitching? Stitching, my stitching's getting straighter. Yeah, yeah.

You know? Yeah. And just starting to figure out, figuring out tools too at the same time. Because there wasn't, you couldn't go on YouTube and figure out how to make something back then. Yeah. So I'm like, fuck, there's got to be a tool for this.

Yeah. So I had the, fuck, there's gotta be a tool for this. So I had the internet, so I'd research. But there wasn't this wide variety of people selling leather tools online at that point. So you had to really fucking search. You had to go to Tandy? Tandy's kind of bullshit tools, but I'm glad they're there because... Are they still there? They're still there, yeah.

Isn't that crazy? It used to be owned by Radio Shack. No shit? Yeah. Tandy Core owned Radio Shack. I know they were affiliated, but I always... I didn't know that. Any time I went to a Tandy store for whatever, rarely in my life, but I just remember there

always being a Tandy store. I grew up in New Mexico and I'm like who the fuck is shopping in here? Who's making these belts? That somebody was yeah, I mean they're the cool thing about a place like that Yeah, and this this exists in all kinds of tool left tool applications You know that if you're gonna make your you and your friends a couple of belts, right? It's perfect for that Yeah, you know you buy the tools They're not gonna last forever right they'll they'll do the job. Yeah the job done, but if you're gonna

Manage actually manufacture it that stuff's not gonna hold up. Yeah. Yeah, it just isn't so alright So you figure out where to get leather tools. Yeah started learning about fact CS Osborne is New Jersey One of the leather you have a leather tool manufacturer started learning about, in fact, CS Osborne is New Jersey. Oh, one of the leather places? Yeah, one of the leather tool manufacturers. Oh yeah? So I found out about them and then I started like.

Do you have a relationship with them now? No, I don't, but they don't give a shit about me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But they still make the tools. They still make the tools. And what about the leathers? Are you going to like Horween or what are you doing? I use some Horween, I use mostly Herman Oak.

Yeah? Where's that? They're in the Midwest somewhere? I use some Whoreween. I use mostly Herman Oak. Yeah? Where's that? They're in the Midwest somewhere. I forget where they're at. But so now, like alongside of the skill set and the tools and figuring this stuff out, you're also researching materials. Research materials and making mistakes, just like cutting shit up and trying, like I'd make the corner of a bag, just the corner of a bag, just to see how like those two,

those three pieces would fit together. Yeah, yeah. Figuring it out. Yeah, just trying to make sense of it all. So what's the first, like, so the first run of stuff you did after the hats was the bags? I started making some custom bags for custom vanilla bicycles. And then I started making my own kind of duffel bags,

and backpacks, and things like that. You still do that. Still do that, yeah. Yeah. So where does the influence to kind of broaden it out? You got that from Filson? I mean, in a sense, there was definitely inspiration from them.

Well, I remember when I bought my Will's Jacket early on, because Dean brought me to the, before you even had a store really, he brought me to the first shop. Yeah. I didn't know who you were. Yeah, but he's had like a little, little- Yeah, a little- Yeah. Dean, I met you and then he's talking up that Will's Jacket.

Dean is the pipeline to all small artisans of all kinds. He finds the folks. Yeah. Yeah. He's interesting like that. But I imagine between him and I, we brought you a few customers. Yeah. I can't thank you enough. But the problem is, we're bringing you customers. People are like, I got to wait a year for that jacket. Oh yeah, but it'll be cool. But I remember you telling me, on my Wills, you said that that oil cloth, that tin cloth

that that's made out of was a Filson Surplus, or from the same place that Filson used to get it. Used to get it, yeah. Oh, yeah. And I won't mention any exact specifics on that. Yeah. But, so the Wills jacket was born of, that fabric was prior to the Wills jacket only used for luggage bags.

Yeah. Okay. For Filson or whatever. Filson, other people made stuff. Yeah, yeah. I was making my bags out of it. That's how I knew about that fabric. Okay.

And is that called a tincloth? I mean, tincloth is kind of Filson's term for it. It's waxed canvas. Waxed canvas. Yeah. A heavy wax canvas. Generally speaking. This one, the Wills is waxed twill. Yeah. It's a one by three weave instead of a one by one. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So you're making bags. Making bags. At that point I got a job as a stone mason. Wow. I was done with the bison. So now you know how to do that too.

I'm building like hand chiseling rock walls, dry stack rock walls. Like an old castle. Yeah, yeah. So was that a detour or were you still kind of chipping away at the close? I left the bike thing. I was doing my own thing this whole time, but it wasn't making enough money for it to be my full-time champion.

So I had to work, I was working at bars too. I worked at like three, four different bars in Portland. Wow, okay. And doing music stuff at the same time, all this different shit. Doing Portland stuff. Doing Portland stuff. Life stuff. Yeah.

Trying to explore whatever the hell it was I was going to be doing. Yeah, for the rest of it. Yeah. And you figured out a way to do all of them. So when do you? I don't know if I figured it out yet. But when do you start to make it your business?

Is that with the wills? After the jacket, yeah. That kind of changed the game. So you're still working out of your house? Yeah. At this point, I think right around this time, I got this little barn studio. Yeah.

It was $100 a month. It was like a little maybe 15 by 15 garage house from turn of the century. OK. And it was finished on the inside. And you had your leather tools in there, your sewing machine. Little workbench, little sewing machine, and all the tools. I slowly collected tools. That's

what I was doing at that point. If I sold a wallet or a little thing, I'd just buy more tools. I never had, I was poor as shit. I didn't have any money around. And you hadn't had a kid yet? Not yet, no. But you're so, but you're also learning how to, you know, draw patterns. Yep. And doing all that. Yeah. So what, so the real,

the moment of lightning in a bottle was this Will's jacket. And that came from, I won't mention a name, but I saved up some money and bought this Really nice work jacket to do the stone mason. Yeah. Yeah and The fucking thing two weeks. Yeah, it was gone like the front seam fell apart Okay, I got a had a whole cuz I'm carrying these big rocks around sure I had holes in the arms Yeah, like that and I was like, you know what fuck it. I got that I have a couple of yards of that really heavy shit yeah I'm just gonna make myself a jacket yeah out of that right that won't rip yeah that was that was the impetus behind making

the wheels check it was like I just needed a better jacket so you made the jacket with the brass with the what with the brass buttons and yeah that brass snaps yeah and you made the snaps? No, no, no, no. Okay. No, no, no, they were snaps I can get. Okay, so you got the brass snaps, and then you made the jacket,

and so what, people start going like, where the fuck did you get that jacket? It was bonkers. Every single person who saw me walking around one-on-one, I had like, you know, Instagram with like a couple, three, 400 followers and every single one of them wanted one. And then all the people I worked with at the bar wanted one and blah, blah, blah.

So we're just like, fuck it, you know, like. Let's make some jackets. Yeah, give me some money. I'll get after it. So you started to do it? Yeah, yeah. How many did you make? That point it was like 25 or something like that.

It took a long time to... And you had no one working for you? No, it was just me. Making Will's jackets out of that one fabric. Yep. So then they start spreading. It becomes viral all of a sudden. I mean, I guess for back then, micro-viral.

Yeah, but everyone in Portland one-on-one. Everybody in Portland won one and then spread it a little bit to, I had buddies in Seattle for music, so they wanted one and started to kind of creep out. So that's all you were making at a certain point. Yeah. Still wallets and things like that.

Cause at the same time I was refining my leather craft. I'm still refining, I don't mean to say. The chain wallets? Chain wallets, I have a bunch of different wallet designs and bag designs and things like that. All right, so when do you start hiring people and broadening the merchandise? Just ever so slowly decided that the shop had to grow and now- Buy some more sewing machines?

A lot more sewing machines and started to hire staff. Are you still the primary designer? Yeah, yeah, I do, I design everything. You don't have anybody there that's sort of like, what about this idea? They don't even bother? Jacob and I worked together on like fabric choices and things like that,

because the thing I didn't realize when I started the business is, and I worked together on like fabric choices and things like that because, you know, the thing I didn't realize when I started the business is you have to do all this other shit. You know, like payroll and all the accounting and all that shit. So much of my time now is spent kind of tip-tapping on the computer. And so it's cool to have trusted folks to bounce those ideas off. Jacob, who you met a couple times. He's really cool in that he studied a lot of the history of garments.

He's collected like vintage band t-shirts in the last fucking 25, 30 years. So he's a garment historian and collector. He kind of is, yeah. And he knows a lot about fabrics and the history of them. So he'll like do these little searches for neat fabrics that are available and kind of throw some stuff in front of me and I'm like, nah, that one feels this way or feels that way. Yeah.

So I make the final calls. Right. It's funny because when I bought the Wills, I think I bought a waxed shirt that I wore on Colbert, remember? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, it was too hot to wear on Colbert. I bet. I was very sweaty. Yeah, those things are not, they're not forgiving.

Well, yeah, I mean, it's for, you know, it's a layer for rain. I mean, like, that's just my thing. It's like, this is a cool shirt. And there I am on Colbert, like, you know, sweating my balls off and a waxed shirt. It looked pretty good though. They look good Wrong place to wear it But yeah, so okay, so then you just start making all the other stuff Yeah, and then wills and then shirts is kind of the same thing like I mentioned earlier

I have one of the I wanted the duffel bag so started to design and make duffel bags and the shirts and the jeans and and it's all later, right? starts to grow in the 2017-18 The story behind the the stitching on the back pockets of the jeans Oh, yeah, yeah to make it like there has to be a signature to jeans. Yeah, and you did it with a record. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's one two Three four. It's five twelve inch Curves. Yeah that I laid out Yeah, and that's where you get that and then went out for the for the denim nerds because like I'm not a nerd

But you've got some machine that you hem my, those things shrunk up a little on me, I might need to get some more. Okay. Jeans. What's that shit? Because they're about just right, but I think they did pull up a little bit. It what, you dry them?

I don't know how it happened. Huh? You dry them? No. No? I don't know how it happened. Huh. But they're fine, they're good, I wear them. But what is that machine that is so sought after for that bottom hem? The Union Special, the 4300G. It's made for hemming.

And that's like an old Levi's thing or what is it? Levi's used them. Pretty much all the big jeans companies. But it's a manual thing. You got to sit there and do it. Yeah, it's got a motor It's not yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah treading or right hand cranking it, right? Yeah, you you you I do it by eye some people like iron him out a little bit Yeah, beforehand, but I do it kind of I called the old hairy eyeball method. Yeah You roll it and then there's a little folder that holds it in place and yeah

The people love that machine because it it it twists there's a little folder that holds it in place. And yeah, the people love that machine because it twists the hem a little bit. Yeah. If you look at an old pair of Levi's, yeah, pre early 70s, probably the bottom of the hem has this little angle to it on the fades and they call it a roped hem. Oh, and that's that's what you get with that machine. That that machine is actually a machine anymore. It's flawed. No, no, they don't make make it anymore so that's so you get like a little time travel element yep definitely so when did the attack happen oh the head attack yeah that was 2018 yeah so that's about where we are in the timeline yeah yeah was starting to pick it up with wheels jackets and things like but it's still

the old shop that The first shop? The second shop, the second real shop. But not the store shop? Not the one that I have now. Was it the one I went to? That's the first one you went to, MLK. Yeah, is that where it happened? Yeah, yeah.

And what happened? That was, so we have music events in the shop. This one was whatever celebration we're having. Some Portland Bama's playing, we had a great night. And Good Art Hollywood, the silver company. Yeah, you just got me this nice bracelet. The jewelry company. The Good Art stuff is so fucking cool.

They are magicians. Yeah, now I'm like a bracelet guy. I've been that in my life at a different time back when I wore black cowboy boots. Now you're a real bracelet person. Yeah, but now it seems back. These are good ones. Yeah, this one could probably be a little smaller, but it's okay.

The new one's beautiful, the one, the Ship John Good Art. Anyway, so yeah, so you had the event. I had a little party and my wife and I were closing the shop up for the night. Yeah. Just a sweet trunk show, the Good Art was there, they put some jewelry to show, just sweet people. They're always good times, you know, some drinks, some food, music, and then we close the shop up,

walk into the car, and two tweakers on little BMX bags cruise by, and like one of them tried to rob me, one of them kinda sucker hit me in the head with an axe, with a hatchet. With a fucking hatchet. Yep, yep. And you went down. I went down, yeah.

And your wife is okay? Thankfully she was okay, I was out. Yeah. I went straight down, she effectively, you know, saw me get killed. Saved your life. She thought that I was gone, you know, saw me get killed. Saved your life. She thought that I was gone, you know? Yeah.

Cops came. They scurried off. I came too in the operating room. That's not supposed to happen. Prepping me. They hadn't like, I don't think they had put me under yet. They were kind of like pulling me in there in a hurry. And first thing I thought of, I didn't know exactly what

happened, but something happened. I first thing I thought of, I knew, I didn't know exactly what happened, but I knew something happened. Right. I knew my wife was there. Yeah. And like, I just didn't know if anything happened to her. So I started trying to say, where's my wife? Yeah.

My skull was cracked and pushed into the, on the part of my brain that controls speech. Oh my God. So I could, everything up to the point of speech coming out worked, but it came out like, brrr, brrr. Oh my God. Words didn't work.

Yeah. It was crazy. Yeah. So I started getting up off the fucking thing because I thought she was in the next room, you know, over, getting operated on too, or not there. Yeah. Or maybe dead.

One of the, yeah, one of the nurses was like, he's not key. We got to get her. Oh, they gave me a piece of paper. And I was like, I just wrote my wife. You know? Oh, yeah. And one of them, thankfully, she went and got her. She came in and held my hand.

And then even put under, they do the thing like, oh, tell us about this. Yeah, yeah. And then you're gone. Yeah. So, you know, then I woke up the next morning. But you were conscious the whole time. Yeah, yeah, when I came to.

Okay. And everything, like I said, everything worked, but I think it's like the Broca's area. Yeah. I'm not a fucking brain guy. Yeah, yeah. From what I've read and what my doctors have told me, the part of my brain, like my skull was pushed in. Yeah.

Like holding that part down, so I just wasn't letting it work. So what'd they do? They had to cut that part of my skull out, and they just popped a metal plate on there. And you can talk? Yeah. Could you talk like right after surgery? It took a while.

Oh, it did? And I still have, like, while. Oh, it did? And I still have like, I still have, it's like a sort of an aphasia thing. Okay. Kind of. But you got a metal plate in your head. Got a metal plate, yeah. And a second lease on life.

Second lease on life for sure. How did that change your approach to life? I don't know, man. I thought it was gonna, I think I'm still figuring, man. I thought it was going to. I think I'm still figuring that out. Still talk to therapists, kind of trying to understand how it affected me. Because for a while, I'm kind of a, you fall down,

and you fucking get the fuck up. Tough guy. But starting to realize that it had more of an effect on me than I thought it did The trauma Yeah, yeah. Yeah working through that with with a therapist. Yeah, trying to figure all that Anger? No, no anger. No just sort of like the the fact of being

Attacked there was a point in time where you know, I was going to get my CHL and I was like I'm gonna carry fuck gun around with me all the time Yeah, but I don't I just don't want to be that guy. That to me is living in fear and I'm scared of a lot of fucking things in the world but not being attacked even though it happened to me. It didn't put me in the state of like every tweaker I see is gonna fucking kill me or anything like that. Right, did they find the tweakers that did it?

They did, yeah, it was like a fucking CSI thing. Oh really? My wife remembered that one of them threw a soda cup down. Yeah. They grabbed that for evidence, got DNA off of that, got a video of them buying the soda, and then, so they had a facial tie in, DNA off of that, got a video of them buying the soda.

So they had a facial tie in and got them, man. I think they caught the guy who didn't hit me first and he fucking ratted the other guy out. And what happened, what was the justice? One of them got five years, one of them got 10 years. The guy that actually hit me. 10 years is a hard time. Wow.

So they're put away. One of them's out now. That was six years ago. No apologies? Ugh. Nah, I'm what? Funny enough, the one who did actually attack me did a formative of an apology in the courtroom.

Oh, really? Oh, you went to the trial? Yeah. The ar form of an apology in the courtroom. Oh really? Oh, you went to the trial? Yeah, the arraignment for him. And the other guy was, no. No. No. That's interesting. So a form of an apology, like he said he was high or what?

It was one of the written notes that somebody probably helped him out to write and blah, blah, blah. But yeah, they were tweaked out. And so you have a certain amount of forgiveness? Yeah. I'd say a little bit. Yeah.

I don't like it. What am I gonna do? Fucking hate him for the rest of my life? Yeah. I got other people I hate more than that. Yeah. You could. But after that, so the business held up

and I guess after you recovered, you just re-grooved and got back into it, right? Yeah, I mean, that's another thing with it. Like, so many people, like there was a GoFundMe and they did a big old like music benefit, shit like that, and my community just kind of like gave me the biggest fucking hug through that. And my employees kept the shop rolling and it was a good thing through it, you know. So we were able to kind of make it through all that shit. That's great.

I had a pretty long recovery after that. Yeah. That's amazing, man. It kept rolling. And you got it, you kind of just plugged on. Still doing it. Yeah. Now when does, because like, you know, I remember I asked you years ago

that you do a lot of collaborations, I guess. You know, with Wesco leather. Wesco boots. Wesco boots and then the leather, Langlitz. Langlitz, yeah. And you have relationships with people in Japan that love your shit. You seem to go over there a lot.

Is it primarily to buy fabric or sell stuff or what's the global market of this stuff? Well, a lot of these collaborations, kind of the beautiful thing, the way I see it is their actual friendships. It's not just a business transaction. So, like Chris Warren from West Coast, he's one of my best friends in the world.

Benny Langlitz, they're just Josh and Rach from Good Art. They're actual true friends of mine. So it makes the, maybe the customers don't give a shit about this, but I think it's an important thing to bring these things, to birth these things from a place that's more than just like, we're trying to make money off of this shit. Oh, of course, it didn't ever seem that way to me,

but it's also interesting and not unlike food, where if you've got people that are craftsmen that love what they do, and they're constantly, you know, doing new things or honoring a tradition, you know, the integrity and quality of this stuff is better. It's the best you can get. I remember that one time I got a denim shirt from you and for some whatever reason when the stitching was coming off and I felt bad because you were like, oh my God, that should

never happen. It was like this glitch and I felt like I'd insulted you forever. Well, no. The thing is, we're still dealing with cotton. Yeah, sure. It's gonna, you know, even, you know, you bark your ass off out there swinging the hammer and everything, you know, the stitch is good. Exactly.

It's all that hard work, right? No, I just noticed it, but we got on that right away. But I guess I asked you early on, because even the nature of the shop, like the new shop, it's like a functioning boutique. I mean, you've got a lot of stuff. I mean, you've got stuff coming in. You've got products you like to sell that don't necessarily, your name's not on them. But all kinds of stuff, jackets know, you know jackets pants gloves hats

You did a t-shirt in the mark maroon color. Yeah, did that sell they're gone. Oh good. Yeah And you did a beefy tea did a lighter tea the black tea and you got the West Coast stuff you got some language stuff and then the The good art stuff. Yeah, but then you got the axes now the axes. Now the axes, you're into these axes. Like I know you got some sweet, what's the axe company that you work with? Grants for his brook. Yeah, where's that from? I can't do the accent, but they're from Sweden.

Now I've just, I've loved those before, even before I got, I loved hatchets before I got hit in the head with one. Isn't that fucking crazy though? It's like I wielded. Yeah, you brought a hatchet right to your head. Oh man. Even on the handle of my personal

Grantsford's I've had it for almost two decades. Before it happened I carved a skull onto the butt of my handle. I was kind of thinking like, fuck, did I do some fucking weird... Some magic? Some dark magic? some prophetic magic.

But yeah, those axes have always loved and there's not a whole lot of places to get them, so I figured out how to carry them and started carrying those. And they sell good? They sell pretty good, yeah. Well, I guess the question I had early on though was like, have you been offered to be bought out?

It's been discussed from a couple of angles. Yeah. Yeah. But I'm not, I'm not, I'm, I don't know. I don't have, I'm a pretty bad businessman. Yeah. You know, like, I keep my prices at a point where it makes sense for the health of the business and no more. You know, and I'm not after it.

I don't have that like startup mentality where I'm building this up to sell it. Well, you like the work. I do like the work and I like the brand. It's a part of me. Yeah, and I guess the only drawback is, is that you can only do so many. Yeah. Like if you're gonna do a Will's Jacket run, people are gonna order them a year in advance

and then they'll get made. So I guess the only, that becomes a question is like, is there any way to make more of these and maintain the integrity of how I do it? And I guess the answer has been no. We've upped it. You know, we've grown it. Yeah.

Not exponentially, not a shit ton. In terms of your ability for output? Yeah. For the Wills Jackets specifically and working with people to make the collaboration stuff and offering other things. So it's expanded, but I feel like we've expanded on a level that's- Manageable? Manageable, and the foundation we've expanded on the level that's... Manageable? Manageable, and the foundation is there before taking the next step.

You know, I don't like to, you know, if you start running across a bunch of stones real fast, one's gonna, you're gonna slip on one, fuck, crush your ass. So I like to have the strong foundation before taking another step. And that's, I feel like that's a healthy business move. Sure. Hey, look, man, if you're making enough for the life you want to live, and you're providing what your employees need, I mean, like, that should be enough. Yeah.

I'm happy. Yeah. And we try to pay our employees well. I want to continue to improve that trajectory of making sure they're taken care of better and insurance and all that shit. We provide a well-being opportunity for these people. And that's the most important thing in my family. Yeah, yeah.

Now, is your dad wearing any of the Ship Shon stuff? Yeah, he's got some shit. Out on the boat? Yeah. Oh, yeah. He's got this hat You see this fucking one of the waxed hats. Yeah, it looks like it's been through. Oh, really? Fucking hell All that salt there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so he's got a classic

Wax baseball cap. Yeah style. Yeah, and then you do the trucker hats that trucker cut. Yeah, I have a few of those Yeah, the classic. Yeah, it's a big difference, man. It's weird where that type of hat is gone. Yeah, they started making them shallower, and the bills got longer. Well, the fastbacks, is that what they're called? The snapbacks? Snapbacks. Those seem, they're their own thing,

and they're pretty good, if you like that style. But yeah, those dumb ones that fit real tight on your head, I don't know what those are. It's the new style of that hat. I like the ones you make with the big top Yeah for the the old style from when I was growing up totally yeah, yeah crown So what's a what's the big plan for the future just to keep on keeping on? Yeah, man Starting to like last year was better than the year before this year starting off better than last year, so starting to continue

Improving logistics within us, you know smoothing out the way we operate And now you seem to have an obsession with making metal stuff metal shit I'm working on more I just made this little key release thing. Yeah, yeah that uh, and the wait for the records I think I saw one of those someone Someone I worked with on the movie. Gotcha. Her husband's an audiophile and she's like, I just don't know what to get him. I'm like, I do.

Oh yeah. Even if you don't use it, it looks nice sitting there. It's a cool thing. Yeah, yeah, I wonder if she got one. I have no way of knowing that. And before we go, what's the, your obsession with Stanley knives, utility knives, is kind of interesting.

You collect them. Well, it's kind of back to the beginning. So when I started doing leather work, I didn't have any money. But I had one of those knives, so I did all my leather cutting with one of those knives. With the Stanley. And so it's been that like treasured little tool

that I learned how to, it's not a leather tool. And specifically the ones where the blades don't retract. Yeah. So it's kind of like this, I'm a nostalgic guy, so it's like this, oh, that's my little tool that helped me learn how to do all this shit, you know? So it's just a special. And that branched off into a full on obsession?

Yeah, I got a little, I have a problem with them. I've got like, I don't know how many I have. How far back do they go? Like, you know, years. Like, what's your oldest Stanley utility knife? 40s, I want to say. Originally they were cast iron and then they were cast aluminum. Yeah. And so on and so forth. And now you made one. Yeah. It's a Ship John utility knife. Yep. Yeah, they got machined in Japan. Based on the Stanley. It's a totally new design. Sure.

But the idea is based on the Stanley. It holds the same blades. Oh yeah, I gotta get one of those. It's a beautiful thing, I love it. I gotta get one. How quick do they fly off the shelves? The brass ones went away real quick, and then we did some copper ones.

Then we did aluminum ones and they weren't as hot. It's special aluminum. People like brass. They like the patina. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, buddy. Well, it was great talking to you. Nice talking to you too, Martin.

Thank you. ["The Man Who Lost His Life"] There you go. That's not a usual WTF story, but it is a human story and it is the story of a guy who was possessed with the need to create and manufacture and design. Great guy and I'm glad to have talked to him. And again, the Decade Wills Jacket is available tomorrow. Go to ShipJohn.us to order it. Hang out for a minute folks.

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Kansas City, heading out more in the days to come. And if you've got any travel coming up, an Airbnb co-host can take care of everything. So you can host your place on Airbnb while you're away. They'll create the listing for you, manage your reservations, and stay in touch with your guests. So your co-host does all the work and you still make some cash while you're away. Find a co-host at airbmb.ca slash host. Hey people, we posted the 20th Ask Mark Anything bonus episode for Full Merin subscribers this week with my answers to your questions, including this one. Have you ever blanked out during a live set and forgotten how to get back on track? How do you deal with that?

It happens. I wouldn't call it blanking out But sometimes you'll miss a piece of the bit or the story that's happened before where an integral piece of the story a sentence it just got away from me and then usually what I try to do is backload it and You know, so the joke makes sense if I am acting on my feet, or in a few instances I've said, oh, why didn't that work? Oh, I forgot to tell you this part, and I'll do that. I'm comfortable enough to where I,

within a live show where I can do that. I don't believe it's happened to me on television, but it does happen and usually the the the immediate on-your-feet thing to do is really just back load it. See if you can get it in there before you get to the ending so you're not missing that piece. You can hear all the Ask Mark Anything episodes and get new bonus episodes twice a week by signing up for the full Merrin. Just go to the link in the episode description or go to WTF pod.com and click on WTF plus. And a reminder before we go this podcast is hosted by a cast. All right here's a

here's some guitar from back in the day. I'm gonna be a good boy. Yeah. The Boomer lives, Monkey, La Fonda, Cat Angels everywhere, and Buddy Holly. Thanks for watching!