WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1628 - Nick Thune

Episode Date: March 24, 2025

Nick Thune is a comic Marc is always happy to welcome back on the show. But this time, it’s very fortunate that Nick is able to join Marc in the garage at all because there was a time in which he spiraled into alcoholism and almost didn’t survive. With a new comedy special released and his sobriety holding strong, Nick tells Marc what happened since the last time they talked, how he struggled with daily blackouts, hospital stays, and the dissolution of his marriage, and how he was helped into rehab and got the support he needed to rebuild. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

With the Fizz loyalty program, you get rewarded just for having a mobile plan. You know, for texting and stuff. And if you're not getting rewards like extra data and dollars off with your mobile plan, you're not with Fizz. Switch today. Conditions apply. Critics rave. The Amateur is a tense, unpredictable ride. You're just not a killer, Charlie. Train me. That constantly finds new and inventive ways to up the stakes.

The first one you kill, you let the other ones know you're coming. I want them all. Academy Award winner Rami Malek and Academy Award nominee Lawrence Fishburne, The Amateur. Only in theaters and IMAX April 11th. All right, let's do this. How are you? What the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fuck? Nick's what's happening? I'm Mark Maron. This is my podcast. Welcome to it. What is happening? I'm Mark Maron, this is my podcast, welcome to it.

What is happening? I have been out here, I've been on the road, I'm still on it, I'm in it, I'm living it. I'm recording this in a hotel room, not even my hotel room, because my hotel room's not ready yet. So I had to borrow the space from my opening act, Allie Makovsky, we just checked in, So I had to borrow the space from my opening act,

Allie Makovsky, we just checked in, she went for a walk somewhere over in lovely Charleston, South Carolina, which is where I'm reporting from. I'm coming to you live from Charleston, South Carolina, where I have no sense of anything other than very Southern, but in the glamorous Southern way. It seems very specific and people love it. People love it here. Maybe after I do this, I'll get out and walk around.

I think I walked around last time. I don't remember. I was probably in some state of panic, but I have to tell you that is receding a bit. I'm not sure why, but I have to assume it's a good thing. But what can I tell you before I get into where we've been and what's been going on? Nick Thune is on the show today. Nick Thune has been on the show twice. He was on episode 189 and episode 780. Both episodes, I talked to him a lot about his Christianity,

which is interesting. We're now at a point with this show where people that were on that long ago have had entire chunks of life, entire chunks of life. And a lot of stuff has transpired. And Nick has been through the fucking wringer that You know brought him to the to the edge for sure not just to the edge of his faith But I think really to be honest after talking to him. It sounds like to the edge of his life literally So it was great to catch up with him. He's got this new special out called born young which is available on YouTube

I believe it's produced by Nate Barghetti. He tours with Nate. This morning we were leaving the hotel in Charlotte and there was a couple checking out and they recognized me. They're like, hey, you know, what's going on? You had a good show last night. Yeah, we're heading out. And the woman was like, yeah, we heard that you,

you know, on stage you talked about, you stopped at a Dunkin' Don way on the way down at a truck stop And I'm and the guy was like I didn't I thought you'd guys be on a tour bus I thought you guys like, you know, you just stop in a Dunkin Donuts at truck stops. I'm like, yeah, don't tell anybody But that's how I roll. I rent a car where I land and then I drive around the region. I'm performing in I rent a car where I land and then I drive around the region I'm performing in, just me and who's ever opening for me in a car for hours. No tour bus. Everybody assumes we're rock stars. I don't even, I don't have a road manager. I don't, I don't have nine guys I'm on the road with. I don't even know what I would do with a tour bus,

but I felt a little bad that maybe this guy was a little disappointed. Or maybe he wasn't, I don't know. This is how I do it. This is the way that is most practical for me to do it. I don't need a bus. I don't need a bus for just me and my opener. There's part of me that thinks like, well maybe you should just do it to do it, but it would be sad I think.

It would be a little weird to roll up on a theater and just me and Ali climb out of the bus. We're the rest of the guys. That this is it. We just needed needed the whole bus to carry. We have two bags each and one's a carry-on so but we thought probably be easier to take the bus and just put the shit in a trunk. Anyway look I wanted to mention something. This guy that I had on the show years ago, he's got something coming out.

Drew Friedman is his name. He's a cartoonist, an artist. He's one of my favorite, I guess it would originally be Underground Comics. He's just a brilliant portrait artist and also comic artist. And there's this big documentary about him. It's called Drew Friedman Vermeer of the Borsch Belt.

It's directed by Kevin Daugherty. And Drew and Kevin are gonna be screening the doc at the Aero Theater in Los Angeles this Saturday, March 29th. There's a panel discussion afterward with Dana Gould, Cliff Nesterov, Leonard Malton, Merrill Marco, Steven Weber and screenwriter Scott Alexander and you can get tickets at the Arrow Theater or go to AmericanCinemaTech.com

I Imagine I'm going to be out of town. Yes, I believe so or I would have been part of that right? I would have been part of that right? I would have been part of it Also tomorrow. I'm at Largo in Los Angeles. That's Tuesday night March 25th, then Skokie, Illinois I'm coming to the North Shore Center for the Performing Arts on Friday March 28th Joliet, Illinois. I'm at the Rialto Square Theatre on Saturday, March 29th, Grand Rapids, Michigan for the GLC live at the Monroe on Friday, April 11th. And then Traverse City, Michigan at the City Opera House on Saturday, April 12th. Also new dates announced for Dynasty Typewriter in Los Angeles, Monday, April 14th, Saturday, April 26th,

and Tuesday, April 29th. Those are all at 7 30 p.m. I'm coming to Toronto Vermont New Hampshire and Brooklyn New York for my HBO special taping at the BAM Harvey Theatre on May 10th. Go to WTF pod.com slash tour for all of my dates and links to tickets. So it's been it's always kind of enlightening to be out here you know I get all worked up about the South. I get all worked up about politics. But ultimately, you know, I have plenty of people that come out to see me at these shows, even here in Charleston. It didn't sell as well as Charlotte or Durham, which was great. Got over a thousand people there at Durham.

And what a great town. Saw some people I knew there and had good food. And then we drove out to Charlotte And I'm always like nervous about Charlotte and I don't even know why I'm like, you know, what is Charlotte? It's it's like a bank city I don't know why I've got this weird thing and then when I get to these places I realize man I've been here more than once more than twice probably three or four times one way or the other I think I did the oddball fest, the first oddball fest in Charlotte.

And I don't know why I have this thing in my head. I knew Raleigh-Durham was gonna be fine, but I had this thing in my head in Charlotte. And then I just, I realized that sometimes you can identify why a place or something makes you uncomfortable until you like get there and you're like, oh yeah, I didn't think, I didn't feel great about my show last time. It was that simple.

It had nothing to do with the sociopolitical population of Charlotte or the nature of the region or anything. I just remember getting to the theater and I was like, oh yeah, this theater was a little hard to tell to keep your pace going because the laughs didn't come back at me like you expect them to. And I realized like it was one of those nights

where I thought like, oh my God, every joke is a journey. Every joke is a mountain. But this time we just, we did, it was great. I mean, it was, it was just, it was great. We, I mean, you get the hang of it, but that's what I realized that the thing was. That was what was in my head. And it kind of fucked me up.

It's just weird, you know, you get out and you talk to people and things become kind of a different game. Like I went to this place, it was sort of interesting. You know, I went to this place, I was trying to find vegan food in Charlotte. And I looked at, I found this place, It was like a soul food plant-based thing. And I went to this place called The Kitsch. And I've never been to these places where you just walk in

and there's a wall of screens. And you order on the screen, and then somebody brings it to you from a door. And several different restaurants. So I imagine it's just like an industrial kitchen behind that door with stations for each of these different types of food or restaurants. But there was sort of like a regular counter

and seated restaurant, a brick and mortar restaurant connected to it. And I wasn't loving what I was seeing on the plant-based thing. And then I started talking to the guy. It was a Japanese restaurant. It was called Dozo Japanese American Kitchen. I'm talking to the guy there, the guy who owns the place, and you know he started with a food truck. He

said he could, he didn't have any real vegan stuff on the menu, but he saw that I was kind of frustrated or, and he recognized me. He's like, you're Mark Maron. He's, I saw you at the Comedy Store a few months ago. You were great. And I'm like, thanks. I'm like, I don't know if I want to eat that food. He's like, I'll fix you something, man. I'll make you something vegan. And he just set out and he kind of cooked me a fresh batch of mushroom and tofu fried rice.

And I talked to him about stuff, about the business, about moving from the truck and into a restaurant and how that was going. And then we just started talking about the nature of the state and about Charlotte being blue and the state being red and being what it is. But then it was sort of interesting about him running a business.

And when he was younger, he didn't really have a sense of the impact of politics or what's going on on necessarily his life or his business. But now, the talk was about what are these tariffs gonna do? What is this new economic policy gonna do? Is he gonna be able to survive as a business with food prices being jacked, getting produce from Mexico?

So it is kind of fascinating how many people are relatively detached from the impact of politics on their life and sort of consumed with the satisfaction of ideological actions taking place that make them emotionally satisfied. Like if you're cruel and intolerant and the idea of hundreds of thousands of people being thrown out of the country because Trump said he was gonna do it, it's satisfying. When you read about it and go like, yeah, fuck yeah. I mean, it's hard for me to empathize

or get into the brain of that, but nonetheless, it's just an emotional reaction to bits and pieces of information or news or policy that is completely destroying the fabric of our government and our society, but some people are satisfied by that. But the actual trickle-down effect of connecting the dots between how these policies and how the tone of the country affects your life,

I don't know. I don't know if it's gonna happen to everybody. I don't know if people are still gonna be satisfied, but it was interesting to talk to somebody who just had this moment of like, oh, this has a direct impact on my livelihood. And obviously everybody's fired from the federal government and people are deported, that too.

But this guy not, he's just running a restaurant. Anyway, it's good to talk to people. I feel like that's been some kind of theme of how I'm approaching dealing with this stuff in my life. Talking to people becomes essential. All that said, it's been okay. I don't know what's gonna happen tonight. Like I said, Durham was great.

Charlotte was great tonight. By the time you listen to it, it'll be done. But I'm looking forward to this. It was kind of a weird situation the time I was down here last time, but the weather's been perfect And I don't know. I'm just trying to tighten up that set It's very very tricky to be doing like an hour and a half hour 40 on the regular And I got to get that down to 70 or 60 or 70 for the special and you get very attached to these bits and I got to pull out some major chunks to get this kind of kind of singing at the length of time necessary for the special. Last time I talked to you, I said I went to the get the eval and get the medicine and

I talked to you about how the just having the label or the condition named, you know, obsessional anxiety, it brought me some relief, but it didn't last long. But nonetheless, now I'm in that zone where I'm gonna try the medicine, I'm trying it, I'm on it. I'm on it right now, can you tell the difference? Does it feel different? Do I feel like a whole new person? Does it sound like I'm just taking it easy,

that I'm taking everything in stride and keeping things in the right context in my brain, compartmentalizing properly, not letting one or two miserable fucking things that I let into my brain destroy the rest of it for the afternoon, does it sound like I'm doing that? Can you tell that I've taken the load off, that I'm no longer that self-conscious

or aware of exactly what's going on in my mind at every given point in time and trying not to react to that as if it's a reality. Does it sound like it's working? Is it working? But because I've had this, I started talking about it on stage the other night, just this idea that my resting mind doesn't rest. And there's this, I think I may have talked about this before

and certainly it's not an unknown thing For people that do this. I think your brain If you have a brain like this is going to imagine the worst you're gonna play it out in your head and then anything that Happens, you know short of that is, you know fucking victory. It's a relief and I realized I've been doing this thing That's kind of it's kind of fucking nuts and I don't know why I started doing it. But along those lines, I've been doing this thing where when I fly now, like getting to the airport

and all this stuff, it's aggravating, it's anxiety. And even though it's my life, just converging on the point of departure causes me a lot of stress. There's a lot of things to do, there's a lot of things to get through. And there's, you know, there's the whole point of departure, causes me a lot of stress. There's a lot of things to do, there's a lot of things to get through, and there's the whole act of leaving, whatever that entails for anybody. But it's just normal flight stuff.

But when I get on a plane, and I used to be a guy who, I was terrified of flying for years. For years I would have to stay up all night, I would drink, I would do drugs, I would do whatever it took to try to just, not be terrified to take off in a fucking airplane. And it was taxing.

And when you lived like that, you'd get to wherever you were going and you were immobilized from just what you had to do to get through the fucking flight. And at some point I let go and I thought it was a spiritual moment. I thought, if I'm gonna Understand the concept of powerlessness. This is a great example of that and I do that

But the steps I take in my brain just to fly on an airplane like once I get on the plane I'm like, alright, dude, you can still get off like if you have to you can still get off if you got bad feeling You can still get off. You know, you can you can stop everything right now tell them to turn back and let you off the plane It's not you know, it's still possible now but then once it hits the runway and You know the engines go and you know, we're taking off You know that shifts and then then I go into well, you can't get off now And you know what you have no control over what's happening. You signed up for this, you gotta get to where you're going.

It's out of your hands, dude. You're in the fucking air. And then for a few minutes, what I do is I just picture very graphically the plane crashing. Like I've just pictured that moment where everyone around me realizes it, this is it, and just the screaming and the terror and the feeling of what it would be like to, you know, go out that way. How much time would you have to think about things? And then just the the black emptiness of death and just the

the chaos and terror surrounding me. I picture it graphically to the point where it's just horrifying I picture it graphically to the point where it's just horrifying. And then somehow or another, I relax into flying. Now I could live without those two steps. I really could. And I don't know how it really falls into or under the rubric of thinking the worst so anything happens is better than the worst.

Because look, I mean, let's say the worst thing happened and the plane starts going down. Am I gonna be sitting there like, you know, I knew this was a possibility and I know exactly how this is gonna go, so I'm good with it. I don't think so. And the other thing about kind of trying to deal

with this psychological issue that I have around this brain, there's always the question of like, well dude, what if that's all you are? What if that's who you are? What if this is how you think? Maybe this is where you understand things in this mode of heightened anxiety.

Maybe this is your process. Do you wanna fuck with that? What if it diminishes your ability to sort of generate or process or, or understand in the way you do? Cause a lot of that's pretty good. What if my life is really just, you know, panning for gold in a river of panic, just waiting for those nuggets. What if that's it?

Well, to answer that question, I think we have to go with age and where I'm at in my life. And I think the answer to that, what if that's what it is, is okay, well, maybe that's true, but I've had a fuck enough. I've had enough. I'm tired.

I've had enough. This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. And from the first day we started this show, I didn't know anything about how to make a website. I used to have to send everything off to someone to have them put it on the site. They deal with any alterations or updates or bugs. But that all changed when we started using Squarespace.

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and we talked about the real shit. We talked about the arc of his life since I talked to him years ago and what he'd been through. His new standup special is called Born Young. You can watch it now on YouTube. And this is me talking to Nick Thune back in the garage. Looking for a community that has it all? Welcome to Crossings, the urban hub of West Lethbridge.

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you're not with FIZ. Switch today. Conditions apply. Details at phys.ca. You just pressed something that sounded like it did something. Didn't it? Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. No, it's not giving me what I usually have here. See that, you know that. Which is a feed into the computer. Well, no, I have it, but usually there's two channels, there's two mics, it's separated.

You know, there's a track for each mic, even though it's the same track basically. But I'm not getting any of that. Maybe we should try some step work. Well, I'm actively in the steps right now as we speak. Yeah. Yes, I think I'm keeping it together pretty well. I'm mildly obsessed.

I know that at a certain point, I will acknowledge it's out of my control and I'll let go for now, but it's not gonna go away, Nick. You think your sponsor will hear about this? No, I'm not in touch with my sponsor in that way anymore. Day to day, I lost my mind kind of thing. I did actually though make a sober call

in a real way that I hadn't made in a long time. I wasn't going to drink or use drugs, but I was spiraling out and I couldn't get out of it. So I called a guy that we probably, you probably know him. He didn't see it coming. He doesn't look at me, he knows I'm in recovery and I helped him get sober. But he certainly didn't expect a just sort of like, listen man, talk me down call. And he did a good job. He kept it in the zone, the step zone, said some, a few things, and I was able to kind of get down to a baseline of, you know, a mild vibration of insanity. Yeah.

How about you? You, you're an everyday call guy? No. And I'm, I'm, I'm between sponsors right now. Oh, it's shopping around. I just actually, yeah. At a meeting the other day, I looked around and I thought I need to really kind of pick this, you know, and it just, I had a great sponsor, he moved,

it, you know, I just couldn't do it anymore. Yeah. And then I, everyone always wants to be really. It's so funny, it sounds like a relationship with a, Yeah. Like a partner. Well everybody. Couldn't do the long distance sponsorship thing.

It was tough, man, we didn't see each other enough. Oh, I'm sorry buddy. But he, I'm not a, I hate the phone. I, talking on the phone is really hard for me to do. I really am an in-person guy. Yeah. So, but yeah, I, I always get treated with kid gloves too. I feel like I need somebody that doesn't do that.

You know, somebody that's like, I don't care if you're traveling a lot. Yeah. You're doing this, you know, like rather than like, oh, it's okay, buddy, you travel, you know, you got a lot going on. No, I had one of those at the beginning. How far along are you at this point?

Six years. Yeah, well, I mean, you're going pretty good. I mean, I had one of those at the beginning and you just pounded away doing all the work, doing, you know doing 90 and 90, going to meeting every day or so for like five years. But now it's like, where am I? I'm up in the 25ish years, right?

So I'm gonna have 20, is that correct? 99, so I'm gonna have, oh Christ, what does that mean? So 99 to 2025, That's 26 years. So I'm gonna have 26 this year, it's crazy. Yeah, that's a lot. But I am in touch with sober people. Some of my friends, my best friends are sober, but we don't do the sober talk.

I have a sponsor, but we don't seem to get together anymore. It's like for me, I've never had, I had 12 years at one point and then, you know. Was that AA sober? I would say that it was 10 years AA sober and then two years of just like white knuckling when I moved to LA.

And then why do you track the relapse to? The falling apart of your life? No, my life was fine. I mean, that, that, that caused it. Yeah, for sure. But, you know, and I was, I was 28 and I just thought, I think I can do this. You know, I have cocktail. Yeah.

And I went to, um, I had a gig in Vegas and I landed and I just thought I'm going to get a beer at the casino. And I did. Nice beer. And then I got a mixed drink that I never really had because I got sober when I was 17 and it was like absinthe. Yeah, absinthe, wow.

When did you go to a casino in France? When? In the 1800s? And the, well, I mean it could have been as far as I know but I woke up, you know, five hours later to pounding on my door. It was the security guards. I was 20 minutes late from being on stage.

And it was like, oh, this is immediately affecting my career. My job. My everything. You were doing a show at the casino? Yeah. And did you blow it? That show was horrible, yeah.

I mean, it was, and they were angry. They were so angry. Do you remember the last time I talked to you on this show? For like, a long, long time ago? Yeah. How many years ago was that? I could look it up.

It's kind of fascinating. Cause I don't think we've had a real sit down for probably, No, it's probably been Over 10 years? Yeah, right? I would say. This is the kind of research that other podcasters do

where they have a guy at a computer doing. Maybe 11 years, maybe it was 2014 or something. That would, yeah, I feel like that's it. That would be helpful to have a guy over on a computer just giving me the information I need immediately. Yeah, you could just turn around and say. Yeah, well, can you get the, or they know intuitively. Oh God.

I think that's what makes your podcast special, is that you don't have that guy. It's a long time ago, dude, it's longer than you think. 2011? Yeah, 2011. Wow, 2011. Wow, yeah. Dude, that's fucking crazy. That's a long time ago.

I think that was probably during the time that I might've even been resentful, or we have that, have that. Oh yeah, yeah, no, I mean, you know what's funny is that we had a good conversation, I was insecure about it after, and you said, it was great, buddy, you're gonna sound, you know. And afterwards, I got some really great,

really nice messages from like Pat and Oswald, and you know, like, hey, that's, I love, you know, hearing. But we really got into religion was the thing, because I was really, at the time, kind of. Full of Jesus. I was coming out of, I was already out of it, but I was definitely not. You're already out of Jesus?

I think I was. I mean, I wouldn't say I'm out of Jesus even now. Yeah. But I think I was out of the organized. You always have Jesus. Once you have Jesus, you always have Jesus. You can't get rid of the guy. Yeah.

He is. He's just, he's waiting. He knows. Oh my God, take a hint. Yeah. Yeah. He is. He's just, he's waiting, he knows. God, take a hint. Yeah. Yeah. No, you can't. Once he's in there, you know what I mean?

He doesn't wanna go. But I do remember there was, so at that time, you felt like you were getting out of the organization. Yeah, I was already, when I moved here, I actually immediately got involved with a church downtown and was helping with, like volunteering on the weekends with like 14,

15, 16 year old kids, which I always loved doing because I got a lot of help from that when I was young. That was really cool. But yeah, I just, especially in LA, once you get to the LA church, the networking, the oh, this guy is working. Oh, he might know people that can help me and maybe because I'm a Christian,

it would be more likely he'd help me. And not that I don't wanna help anybody, but I like to help people that I think are, if I could even help anybody at all, to be honest. But the people that I like to work with or collaborate with or do anything with are people that I admire. And if you don't make something,

if we don't fit just because of God, that's not enough for me. And that's not a mean thing. But they think that that's enough. Well, I mean, it seems like there's a, it's very interesting in terms of what's happening in the country and everything else. And with Christian branding and business, it's a big thing.

Yeah. You know, so it's weird that in 2000, whenever you came out here, that was not a thing, but now those people wouldn't even have to ask you. This whole network of Christian rock music, Christian movies, Christian influencers. It all has the same filter too, that if you were to go like an Instagram filter,

it all is just ran through the same thing. And there's two or three people on the top, and they're pretty close to being canceled and rotating a new one up, which just happens over and over again. And then they have a documentary series on Netflix. And you know, when Christians go down, they go down big. They go down hard.

Yeah. And I had that realization recently, you know, with a mutual friend of ours. And I do think it resonates with me that when you really realize that the struggle is real, that even if you put it into the framework of sin or of transcending the moral parameters of what Christianity is supposed to be, the need to get straight with Jesus and maintain that relationship is a daily struggle for some guys.

And, you know, doesn't mean they're gonna win. And when they lose, goes down hard. It's, and it's because they don't actually follow through on the personal relationship aspect is what they, you know, it's like Christianity is having your own personal relationship with God. Yeah. And so that should mean that we have falling outs

and that's not up to you to judge or, if you're in a leadership position, any faltering, any admittance to that, you're asked to leave, step down, it's brutal. Any sort of admittance to what? I'm struggling with porn. Oh, interesting. Or that's what they build as their foundation.

I struggled with porn. Right. Even if they're doing it. Even if they're masturbating at the podium. No, they just watch it. They don't masturbate. Oh, okay. They're all edging.

Well, aren't we all? Yeah. God, I'm right on the edge right now to be honest. Always on the edge of a lot of things. I think that's how I live my life. It's as a metaphor, edging. Well, that's kind of interesting that, so that means that most people

who are looking to these leaders, they're willing to accept flaws, or at least flaws in the past. But sort of the conversation of active struggle that they may be not winning, then it's sort of like, well, we need to get a new leader. Yeah, we need somebody new to come in because this isn't a good luck.

Yeah, or it's like, you know, he needs sort of a one-on-one help, or maybe he should just come on this side of the podium for a while. And they might make it like, he's, you know, taking a sabbatical or, you know, whatever, but it's really a, we're looking for something new. They kind of God their leaders.

And it sucks because there's, that doesn't, I have a friend that's a pastor and I know through and through this guy is such a good person. And somebody that doesn't throw it in people's faces. But you know, if he makes a mistake, he's leading a church and people like the elders, you know, all the people that are kind of involved in these decisions, they just are just so ready to rotate. Well, I think like one of the issues is too,

is like the church is a community. So if you start fucking with the people in the community, you drag some other people in, it never goes away. And you know, the humbling is if either you're gonna stay in that community or you really go split. That's why guys go to other towns and start churches. He had a church over in wherever and they're like, why do you leave?

We don't really know, but we got this building. I mean, they had that guy up in Seattle that the Mars, I don't know if you remember Driscoll, Mark Driscoll or something like that. There was a big, he got, it was an explosion. I mean, this was a huge church and he said things like, you know, mini vans mean mini man. You know, like if a man had a mini van.

Like he had all these kind of weird funny quotes. He was that sort of, what is it, the success driven Christianity, the sort of empowerment driven Christianity that God wants you to be rich. And I don't think he's changed. I just think that he moved to a different state. Yeah, of course.

So that's what happens. They just keep moving them around. Catholic Church did that for years until there was hundreds of thousands of abused children. I lived across, you know that like weird Catholic thing in Silver Lake that's right by one of the Manson houses? Wow, I feel like I don't have it. It's on Waverly.

The same map as you, yeah, okay. And it's apparently, I mean, I always wonder what it is. It's like beautiful looking and gated, and apparently it's a place where they send. Oh, the priests? Yeah. For some rehab? Yeah. Some detox? And it was always nice to know place where they send. Oh, the priests? Yeah. For some rehab? Yeah.

Some detox? And it was always nice to know how close they were. You know? Just wandering around? Yeah. And you know that they're getting better. And you've got, but you still wanna keep your kid in the house.

Well, they're probably fixed, you know? And they keep them there even if they're fixed or not. Fixed, you mean neutered? Yeah. Who knows how they treat them. Well, let's go back because like I remember distinctly and I did watch your special and I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna be a judgemental in the way

of like, back in my town, we did hours, but you know, you guys do what you want. Oh, the hour, the length of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. But everyone's doing that now, and I know people are advised to do that now because they've, everyone's decided

because the algorithm has turned us out that, you know, people just can't, they can't pay attention. That, the secondary advice, you know, device thing, you know, that whole thing, like, you know, like the way that, you way that showrunners and executives are saying that the TV or whatever we're watching a thing on is the secondary advice.

The first device is the phone in front of us. And they have to hit plot points over and over again to remind us what's happening in a show because we're checking texts and emails as we're watching the show. So this is all in practice? Yeah, this is a thing that's in meetings, it's talked about.

Okay. But for me, I love the hour concept, I love the standup concept. Like I'm doing the Tonight Show on Monday and I chose to do standup because I like. Oh yeah, you can do five? Yeah, I want it, I love that. There's something so romantic about it.

Well, it's also used to be part of the job. Like you gotta figure out how to do that. Take all your shit, pick your shit, tighten some shit up, change it a little bit so it can fit into five minutes. It was like one of the challenges of doing standup. I was this morning with a red pen and a piece, I mean last night I ran it two times, it was so fun.

It was just like, this is, yeah. And, but Nate, who produced this, just was like, listen. I was like, I don't want to put a whole hour out. I'm like, I'm finding myself again. I have a lot of material that I don't know what to do with. And he said, I just want to show my fans your stuff. You know, let's just do a, you know? And I was like, yeah, let's just do a half hour.

And he, in that way, he was being so cool. He was like, I just want people to see you. So you were, this was really about just putting you out there, you're not looking to make a bunch of money on it, you're just like, you want people to watch it. No, yeah, I don't, I don't, money is so, I mean, I love it. It's nice when you have it and you don't have to worry about things.

But I think since becoming a dad, the only thing I'm concerned about money is that I have something to give my son. Otherwise, it's a hassle. It's like, as long as I have a home, I can make him lunches, like we're good. Yeah, well, that's kind of nice old school thinking. The lunch may not, you might not be able to afford the fruit

but you can have a sandwich. No, the fruit we have, that's the thing. I'm a vegan so it's like the house is stacked. I'm a vegan too. I meant, well, did you, I feel like we were talking about cream cheese when I saw you last. Oh, where was that? Oh yeah. At the comedy store.

Finding the good vegan cream cheese. Yeah, kitchen mouse. Oh, okay. I, well I mean, if I buy it at the store, Kitchen Mouse. Oh, okay. I, well, I mean, if I buy it at the store, I get the Mykonos. Yeah, that's good, yeah. I think they do a good cashew cream cheese. They do, but Kitchen Mouse's is at like Bell's Bagels.

They, you know. Oh, they make their own vegan cream cheese. Kitchen Mouse makes their own vegan cream cheese. Bell's Bagels, haven't had those. You know, as a Jew and as a former New Yorker, I'm still weird with bagels. Like, I don't mind having a bagel here and there, but like, I still have them in New York

and I still have this idea of what an amazing bagel is and it's never been matched to the ones I used to get. I can't even remember what the name of the place was. Maybe it was B&D Bagels, and I used to have to go downtown and get them in the morning when they were hot in LA No in New York, and they were dense man dense dense. Yes heavy Yeah, they were like, you know, it was like they had a weight to him and that's good. Yeah, it was good

Oh, yeah for me. I felt like those were the real deal and you watch what you eat. Yes Yes, dude, I'm nuts so It's a real deal. And you watch what you eat. Yes, I, yes, dude, I'm nuts. So, eating a dense bagel doesn't seem like a- No, it's a rare thing. So once a month. But like, I'll tell you those, Cantor's rye bread is top notch. Oh yeah, you told me that Cantor's makes a-

A vegan Reuben. Yes. It's awesome. I gotta have it. It's awesome. Yeah. Like, I'll do it. I don't wanna wear it out. Yeah, I don't know that it's good for you.

I would say it falls under the umbrella of vegan junk food. I'm gonna do it tonight. I'm doing the store tonight. I'm gonna go there. Yeah, yeah, just make sure you get, well what you do is they have a vegetarian option and vegan option. And the vegan option is the Mrs. Goldfarb's corned beef,

I think it's a seitanish kind of thing, or maybe it's soy, but it's spiced properly. But you get, they have a vegan Russian dressing, and you replace their cheese with avocado. So it's basically sauerkraut, avocado, the meat, and then the vegan Russian. And they grill it, though, that's the best part. They grill it like a Reuben.

And I've had very good experience with it. Are Reuben's always grilled? Yeah, that makes them great. That's what gives them that awesome crust. You know, it's not toast. They take the whole sandwich and they put it on the grill and they press, you know, they put the press on it and then flip it.

So like a grilled cheese. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Excellent. I used to get that at that place, that deli and like by MacArthur Park, whatever that. Langers.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it was good. How long you been vegan? Three years. Yeah, I've been two. And I like cooking for it. Like, and I'm like really kind of a stickler with it. I've made one or two exceptions, but not consistently.

Like I've been at a Thai place on the road because that's the only place I can eat. And if they're gonna pull a little fish sauce and the green papaya salad, I'll take it. Yeah, my girlfriend is why I got into it, and she's an amazing cook. That always goes well, with anything. It wasn't forced, it was just, it was like,

I felt bad, I didn't like eating in front of her. At first I did it like, yeah, I think our first date I got a steak, you know? I'm not changing. Test her? Yeah. And then I tried it and I thought, this is good for my cholesterol, so that's nice. That's why I started it.

But yeah, I cook all the time. Started for vain reasons. Oh no, no, I started for the cholesterol. No, for me, but that to me is vanity rather than saving animals, yeah. Well, you get a little more sensitive to that as time goes on, the animal thing. Yeah, because.

It does come in. You do know that you're good. You look at animals differently. I get very emotional. I was always an animal guy, but now my experience of empathy and sadness for animals in trouble is profound. Yeah.

Like I got two cats that are fighting for some reason. They won't stop, and it's a horrible thing Like when they won the Charlie just wants to be just shit out of Buster and I can't I don't know what's going on And do you think Buster is not into it or do you Buster's kind of old and you know? Charlie's just being a dick and he's younger and it's just like it's uncomfortable. I don't think he'll kill him But you know, it's like it causes all kinds of stress and it just started and I don't know I'm gonna have to put the fucking Charlie on medicine. And I don't even wanna take medicine, so I project that onto him.

Maybe take, maybe no more testosterone, are you doing that? I don't, I don't. TRT. What, for the cat? That's what Rogan does, I'm just kidding. Well, the cat's got no balls. Yeah.

I don't know about Rogan, but I'm assuming, depending on how much steroid abuse he did in the past, I don't know what sizes balls are, what effect they're having. I'd love to, wish we had a guy to look that up. We've got Rogan's balls? I'm sure if you Googled that, you'd get something. Yeah, yeah. But going back, a pivotal,

a sort of interesting moment for me, and because I'm sure that in the original conversation, I was probably slightly condescending. I probably had judgments about you because you're playing guitar and you didn't have a beard and you were good looking and Becky was representing you and you thought everything was going your way, I think. Yeah, I think. And I'm sure that annoyed me.

But I remember we had a very decent talk about religion and stuff. But I remember, like we had that talk, and I don't know that I'd seen you that much for a while, and I ran into you in Montreal, and you were on a fucking tear. Yeah. And it was like, oh my God, he is, he's in it. He's in the fall.

Yeah. He's in trouble, that guy. Yeah, Bill Burr saw me at a grocery store, he's in it, he's in the fall. Yeah. He's in trouble that guy. Yeah, Bill Burr saw me at a grocery store, said the same thing. Yeah, like, you know, like he's, he's strayed. Yeah. Well, what happened? What was the arc?

Who not, being an alcoholic, you know, I mean, it was, it was just wanting to drink. And that happened during the relapse. So you got sober young, and then you like, I'll have that beer. And then you fucked up in Vegas and it didn't stop there. No, and I came home and my ex-wife, I said, you know, I think I should start drinking again.

I didn't tell her I had drank. Like it's a proactive decision. I've been doing a lot of thinking and let's get margaritas tonight. And if it's bad, you tell me and I'll just stop. No problem. Cut to 10 years later, I'm in a hospital and it's gotten very bad.

Oh my God, really? Oh yeah, yeah. It was, you know, delirium tremors, all of the things that you get when you're drinking a bottle and a half of vodka a day. And it was just. A bottle and a half? Yeah.

Wait, of what size bottle? Like a fifth. A fifth. You know, like a fifth of vodka. So you're waking up with orange juice? I'm drinking in the middle of the night. I'm waking up at two to pee and I'm taking five shots. And then I'm going back to bed.

Hold on, dude. All right, so you tell your wife we're gonna have margaritas. And then like, and when does it, how quick before, you don't have the kid yet or you do? Don't have the kid yet. So you thought, was the kid sort of a Hail Mary or what? The kid was, yeah, I didn't see the kid coming.

And then when it happened, I thought, oh, I'm gonna really straighten out. And I just really didn't, which is what happens. You know? Holy shit. So, okay, so you're drinking again at the beginning. I would say pretty quickly, I was sneaking shots of like at friends' houses and stuff.

Like, you know, you go into the kitchen. You're pretending like your guy's controlling it at home. Yeah. You're still going to church? No, no more church. I stopped going to church? No, no more church. I stopped going to church before that. Okay. Yeah.

Now I can't remember, was your wife a church person? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't know if she goes now, but. Right. But you had that as part of your community. Yeah. So now does the shame of the drinking become consuming?

Well, yes. But also knowing. There was never a moment that I could fool myself. I knew I was in AA for that long. Every time I looked at myself in the mirror or I was taking a drink at somebody's kitchen while everyone's in the backyard and I found a bottle somewhere.

And I'm afraid that somebody might walk in and I'd be like, hey, oh, what's going on? Every moment I just would say to myself, you're an alcoholic, this is bad. I just have this one memory of going to a wedding with my wife, with Kim back in the day. And it was like, we were in Boston, it was maybe in, I think it was down on the Cape.

And like before we got to the wedding, I took two Atavans. Right, but then I get to the wedding and right away, I go to the bar and I do two shots of scotch. And then I lost the evening. Like, you know, I smoked some weed, apparently I set my arm on fire. You know, it was like-

That's like a party trick or on accident? No, on accident. And like, you know, there were just, a whole evening went by and I woke up the next day at the bed and breakfast and everybody at the breakfast table was like looking at me like weird. And then someone walked in and breakfast, and everybody at the breakfast table was looking at me like weird. And then someone walked in and said, why is there a car parked on the lawn?

I had done that. But, you know, I, but everyone was driving with me. Someone let me drive. But I could not put together that evening. But like just to drink two shots at the get-go on Ativan on two of those, I was gone, dude.

And that was like, you know, and I felt like shit. And then, you know, then you're with the person that knows you have a problem and it somehow allowed you to get to this place again. Mixing the Benzos and alcohol is bad. Yeah, I mean, I remember one time, I'll never forget this, for some reason, these moments stand out.

You'll never forget the action, but you forget what happened? Yes, but I was walking in Manhattan with like Natasha Leggero, and I pulled out like one of those like sticks of, not Ativan, but whatever the other one is, Ativan, I guess, but, and I said, hey, do you want one?

She was like, no. And can you not take it too? Like, why do you need that? And then I did. And it was just like, you know, what? It's weird, the moments you have with normies where you're kind of trying to justify your thing, and they're like, what's wrong with you?

It's morning. And you're like, what's wrong with you? It's morning. And you're like, what do you mean? We're going to meet friends for dinner. Why? What do you mean? Why, of course I'm gonna. Those moments with normal people were always the most brutal.

Because you defend it and you really think because you're an alcoholic brain that you're like, this is what we do. But you're not thinking because I'm an alcoholic. You're like, of course what we do. But you're not thinking, because I'm an alcoholic, you're like, of course I'm, what do you mean? Well, and also if they're the normal person though that you're out with for a night and they're letting loose because you're the guy they let loose with.

And then their wives are like, you can't hang out with Nick ever. I mean, especially on weekdays, because this is bad. Because it started Wednesday and now it's Saturday. And you, you were at his, he has an office in Glassville Park? Well, yeah, he needs to have a place to drink more. I had a storefront in Glassville Park that I was just...

Just to drink in? Yeah. Where'd you get that turquoise ring? That's a good one. That's a big one. I got this in... Well, you're a big guy. In Nashville.

Because I got my little Zuni one. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, I had another one, but I lost a stone out of it. I got this in Nashville. Cause I got my little Zuni one. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, I had another one, but I lost a stone out of it. I got this in Nashville and my girlfriend, well, she got me both these actually. Oh yeah, those are real New Mexico shit. They're big too, but you're a big guy.

But, okay, so you're drinking a fifth and a half a day, but like after the Margarita point how many how many years into your daily maintenance drinking? Did you have the kid? Well, I stopped drinking when he was five so I Guess five years into it five years in I had the kid Wow and then I at 33, I had the kid. Wow. And then I, at 33, yeah, 33, I had him. And it, at that point, I remember I had a friend bring me scotch at the hospital. And I made it seem like, hey, we gotta celebrate. Yeah, but it was like really like,

I need scotch at Cedar Sinai and I don't know how to get it in here. And I can't think of a great excuse for me to go get it in here and I can't think of a great excuse for me to go get it right now. Wow. And it was like, yeah, and I needed it. I could feel myself going.

But the itchy got really bad. And then to where one time I thought I was getting sick. I thought I was having a stomach flu. And then it turns out I just didn't drink for half a day. And it- How long did it take to get you that way? About half a day. Of just starting to drink again?

Oh no, I was like, I was drinking as I was vomiting. I was like vomiting. I was like, I gotta have drinks. That's gotta be the reason. But I mean, like once you started to drink again, how long did it take before you needed it so desperately? I don't think that, that was the last three years, I think. Of drinking?

That I really needed it that bad. And when did I see you in Montreal? Bottles hit everywhere. That was the summer before I got sober. So the marriage was done? We're still married, but yeah, it was definitely done. Yeah, because I was like, who is this guy? And that was nine years in?

Yeah. Oh my God. So how long did the, before the separation, after you had the kid? Oh, well, I was living there still. No, I was after you had the kid. I don't wanna get too personal. No, I was living there still and everything. You know, and into rehab, it was like, I think that a lot of people around me

were trying not to rock the boat too much, you know? Like, I think people wanted me to get help and they knew that I wasn't gonna do it unless I found it on my own. And I got Lyme's disease. Oh my God. In Bloomington. What'd you go out, did you fall asleep in the woods?

Well, I went out in the woods to find that rock that they jump off of in that movie, Breaking Away. Oh, because you were gonna jump off the rock? And I did, I found it and it was great. Beautiful, into that quarry. You jumped off? Yeah. That was nice, it's still there and everything?

No, not anymore now. They just blew it up like a year or two ago and it's gone. But it was on a private property, I found it, but also I found a, so when you saw me in Montreal, I had no idea, but I had a tick in my hairline that was like just barely in there that somebody saw eventually, and then I didn't do anything about it,

and then all of a sudden I had these lesions on my arm that I just finally went to the doctor and they're like, yeah, you've got Lyme's disease. And so they had to take my blood and when they got my blood back, they were like, listen, there's something more going on here. And it seems like you might think that alcohol is gonna fix Lyme's disease, but it's not.

That's how they framed it? No, that's in my mind. I was like, oh, I thought part of my, but yeah, when you're taking antibiotics and alcohol, weirdly doesn't do, they really mean it when they don't, when they say don't do that. Yeah, why? Because they don't work?

They don't work at all. Yeah. Yeah, and, but I was, I forget the number, but he said, yeah, you have 360 enzymes in your liver. And I said, oh, okay, well, what's normal? I was thinking like 320, you know. He said six. So your liver was crapping out?

Yeah, and my friend had just died from this, my friend. Richard Swift, who's an amazing musician, died the same, of that. And I knew that moment at my doctor that that's me and I need to go to rehab and I got ahold of Becky and next thing you know. He was sober? Yeah, yeah.

Oh my God, were you still with him? Uh-huh. Oh, are you still now? Uh-huh. No shit. Yeah. Well, that's good to have a profoundly sober manager. Yeah, yeah.

Who you knew as a fuck up. Knew before and after. Yeah. Yeah. Wild. Yeah, yeah, so yeah, he got me into a, my friend Kevin too was involved. I think I called Kevin first and then he called Dave Becky.

But yeah, they got me in and then two years, two days, not two days, two days later, they had to take me to the hospital because they found me naked in the backyard of this rehab with seizureing tremors. And I woke up in like the San Wakinta Hospital or something like that. Yeah.

That was crazy. They weren't tapering you off in the rehab? They were. No, they don't taper you off with booze, but they give you the right- Well, yeah, with Valium or whatever. Yeah, that. Benzos.

That and also Benzos, and then there's another one that I forget what it's called, but to help with seizureing. But they, you know, their whole thing is like, we just wanna make it comfortable for you and keep you alive. But once they can't do that anymore, which they couldn't, you know, they tried it all. I was-

The seizures are so bad? Yeah, and I was talking to the TV remote, I thought about like making phone calls. Oh, so yeah, so you're hallucinating. I was having meetings out at a table. Massive hallucinations. Like, I remember I was playing this Towns Van Zant song, they had a guitar there.

That always helps with alcoholism. Play as much Towns Van Zant as you should. I was ripping through a song in my room, Loretta or some song, and they came in, they were like, hey, can you, we're running a rehab out here, and you're screaming some song in here and it doesn't sound good.

It doesn't. You thought you were nailing it though. It felt like, yeah, I'm in it. Top of my game. But yeah, I remember, and I actually called Al Madrigal when I was in the hospital. I don't even know how or why,

but he told me later. And I think I had a show or something, some calendar event popped up on my phone and I called him like, hey, I can't make the show, buddy. And then all of a sudden he was like, something seems very off. I was like, yeah, I'm in the hospital. There was one scene where I was in a blackout,

where I honestly think I was drugged in New York, but it's really hard to tell when you're an alcoholic and you're in it. Cause I thought I was drugged in New York, but it's really hard to tell when you're an alcoholic and you're in it. Because I thought I was roofied by this weird couple and that they took me to an apartment and sexually abused me. That's what I believe.

And I still believe it. I feel like I was drugged by these two people. And I was a grown man and I was married and I was living in New York. And it was a full blackout. And at some point, like, because I got up, I came to the next day, and my wife was, you know, she was about to call the police. I was missing.

And I'm like, yeah, I don't know what happened. I think, you know, I don't know, but I have like a bad feeling and whatever. And then she plays this, a message I'd left on the machine. And it literally said, I'll be home as soon as I get out of this dream. That's nice.

Fuck man. Poetic. Comforting. I'm sure that made her feel pretty good about, you know, like he's okay. Oh yeah. He'll be home when he's out of the dream. Fuck man. Poetic. Comforting. I'm sure that made her feel pretty good about, like he's okay. Oh yeah. He'll be home when he's out of the dream. Oh wow, he's actually very.

Lucid. Very thoughtful. Oh yeah, it's real poetry. Fucking nightmare. And I remember trying to write down something, cause that's why I think I was drugged and not just blacked out. Cause I was trying to write where I was

or I was gonna, you know, I don't, and I couldn't write. And I, you know, I think I've processed that. I don't really know, nothing horrible happened. It's not like I woke up with blood coming at my ass or anything. But I do feel like something weird, like I was brought to a party that I had no control over.

And the whatever happened at that party. Who the fuck knows? I don't know. One of my, you know, you have moments like that. I remember there was a birthday party that I went to and the next morning I was like woke up and I didn't know how I got home. Yeah.

And I had talked to, I know the last person I was talking to was Tim Heidecker. Yeah, right. And so I texted him person I was talking to was Tim Heidecker. Yeah, right. And so I text him, I was like, hey man, sorry about last night, just assuming that he would be like, yeah, here's what happened. Yeah.

He just said, I understand, buddy. Yeah. And I thought, okay, well, I'm not gonna ask any deeper about that. Yeah. Rather not him refresh his memory. Yeah, right. Yeah, I bet you didn't know.

Yeah, I don't know that I was a massive blackout guy, but I definitely had enough of them and they were scary enough to me that they didn't happen that much. They were happening daily for me at the end. It just, it was like that thing. You just knew, you knew it was gonna happen. You just, I knew.

At some point. When does your family give up on you? I think they were in the midst of it. I think that it was really becoming a reality and that everybody was aware. And I didn't know how much everybody was aware. Were you physically unwell? Did your skin look bad?

Yeah. Were you kind of brown? Yeah. And also I had the Lyme thing. So I was in bed for- But you didn't get congestive heart failure or any of that shit? No.

Oh, that's good. But I was in bed once for a week and just blamed it on my joints and all these things from that tick. Oh my God. But I mean, and I'm sure part of it was that. And then at one point, my wife left with my son and my dad came and took care of me for a couple of weeks.

And I don't, that's just a real haze. I don't remember much of that. Wow. How old are you now? 45. Man, you really did it. Good for you. I'm just, you really went as far as you could go.

I know, and I'm so happy now. I mean, it's not, you know, not all the time or very little actually, to be honest with you. But I'm so happy that. I mean, it's not all the time, or very little actually to be honest with you, but I'm so happy that I got through that. You're not living that way. Well, I mean, that's why I framed it, because we'd had a conversation, and there's something always interesting to me

about true believers who eventually get off the path, that I always assume when I saw you in Montreal, which was, it seems, at the end of this fucking horrendous period, that you were just in hell and actively struggling with your faith. But I don't know if that's true. Yeah, I mean, I was struggling with just, especially when you're a dad and you know you're doing this.

And so the concept of, I used to believe in all this stuff and I used to, what happened? You know, like, and you're constantly wondering, what, did I believe in it? You know, and it's such a weird thing to like consider doubt in faith. That's another thing that a pastor can never acknowledge. The thing that every single human would have

at least once a day. Doubt in in the there's a God or not. They can't ever say it. And then when I got sober, that's when I realized, oh God, there is a God. And thank God, he took care of me. I didn't get a DUI. All the things I should have gotten, death, DUI. Yeah. I made it through. You just have the tick reminder. He sent a tick. Oh!

He always sends something, you know? So great. He did send that tick. The tick you didn't notice. And now you have this chronic ailment that'll be a reminder of a very bad time. No, I got through it. I got, because immediately I was on full things.

You're clean of it? Yeah. They can do that? Yeah, if you catch it early enough. Oh, okay. Some people have it for years and they find it. I've heard horrible stuff. I have too.

About when you can't get rid of it. And it makes me worry, did I get rid of it? What, you know. How do you know? I don't know. And it seems like the doctors don't either. Oh, that's always a bad moment. Yeah.

When the doctor doesn't know. It's one of those things, it's like fibromyalgia or something. Yeah. Where they're like, well, we're pretty sure it exists. We have a hard time detecting it or fully explaining it. Yeah. But you haven't had any symptoms?

100,000 people can't be lying right now. Right, no symptoms though? No, no. That's good. I'm having symptoms from quitting nicotine. It's, especially when I see a little zen. I'm fucking, so I go on and off this shit so much. And it's like, I try to explain it to people,

but when you're an addict, and you start these things, like I was off nicotine totally for years, and then I smoked a couple cigars, and I had to get off of them, and then I got on these, and I thought, well, these are good, they're not tobacco, and they're working for me, so fuck it, why not do them? But then all of a sudden, you're finding the empty, the used ones, the ones that you've sucked all the nicotine out of, they're everywhere. They're in my pockets, you're finding the empty, the used ones, the ones that you've sucked

all the nicotine out of, they're everywhere. They're in my pockets, they're under my pillows. I'm like, am I not paying attention? I thought you did lozenges. I did, but they started fucking my stomach. And I liked them, but I didn't, these ones seem cleaner than lozenges because the lozenges are,

the thing that makes them a lozenge has some like Manital or some of those sugars that can fuck with your stomach. So I like, as opposed to stopping, I'm like, I'm gonna try these, maybe they won't fuck with my stomach. Do you, I mean, do you do that on stage? Yeah.

Do you wear one on stage? Like, I'll change them on stage, dude. Oh, really? I'm at that point of addiction. Where at some, like 45 minutes in, I'll be like, I gotta switch my zen out. See, I went from Copenh stage, dude. I'm at that point of addiction. Where at some, like 45 minutes in, I'll be like, I gotta switch my zen out. See, I went from Copenhagen to zen. See, I can't do the chew.

Were you doing it loose? Yeah. Or in pouches? No, loose. Did you grow up with that? Yeah. Oh, okay. So you know how to do it.

It was the first thing I did before smoking. And then I smoked. I mean, it was 30 years of nicotine until December. And then I got the stomach full. I've been on and off. I backed out. I can never keep a dip together in my mouth. It would always be a almost vomiting thing every time.

But the pouches make everything easy. When I see Nate, I can't be, he does those pouches, you know? And I tell him that story all the time that, you know, after he opened for me at Carnegie Hall, we did this big show at Carnegie Hall and I just remember him on the street giving me, I'm like, you got a pouch? And he's like, he had like six left in this container.

He said, just take all these. And I'm like, oh my God, this is the best part of the night. He said the exact, he gave me a thing of him right before I quit at some hotel. We were like getting off the elevator. It was like the end of a weekend of shows. And I was like, can I get one pound? And he's like, just take them, buddy.

Yeah. Yeah. I just walked out of the elevator, I was like, all right, well, I'll see you next weekend, I guess, or wherever you see each other again. I think there's something entertaining about the nature of the addicts around him. Like, he operates at Even Keele,

I don't think he drinks anymore. So like, he's kind of licked this thing through God or whatever, but he still knows, he knows the hunger. It'd be like, it was funny because he gave me one and his, I don't know, his publicist or whoever, he travels with, she goes, "'I've never seen anyone ask him for one of those.'"

And Nate was sort of like, "'Well, he's an addict. You know? Yeah, he likes to point that out about me a lot as well. I know, I know. As he shovels a pizza into his face. He was also involved in some way in getting me into rehab, but I never want to ask him about it

because I just don't like hearing about it. It's like that Jackson Brown lyric of like, don't remind me of my failures because I've forgotten them. It's like, I don't want to hear this anymore. I revisit mine constantly. Yeah. It's one of my hobbies. You know, like the feeling of like,

but as I get older, like they don't affect me the same way. You know, like, but the discomfort, usually it's the embarrassment or the shame, like they don't affect me the same way. But the discomfort, usually it's the embarrassment or the shame of it that is where the juice is on that. And I had something happen the other day where it was like this was a horrible kind of feeling that some guy had asked me, it was a gig, and it was kind of interesting, because something good came out of it.

I don't know if I can explain it. Like I was in South By 2, they were premiering this doc about me, and this guy was doing an event at Soho House they had reached out to me about. The idea was we're gonna listen, you're gonna pick some vinyl, and we're gonna pick five songs

off of five different records, and we're gonna get a group of people together, like a show almost, and you're gonna explain why the songs mean something to you, and then we'll sit and listen to the songs. And I'm like, well, that sounds kind of thoughtful and nice. Yeah, it sounds fun.

Right, but then I'm at Soho House, and it turns out it's this kid's first time doing this. He's got no real stage jobs. He's kind of put it together. He's got a turntable out there and two chairs. And we're waiting in this room adjacent to the room where it's gonna be, and I just hear Soho House people drinking and laughing,

and I'm like, what are we doing? I picked some pretty sweet, sad songs, and we're just gonna sit here. And I walk out in this room and there's some bros with their wives or girlfriends. It's like young professionals. It's a Soho house scene. And I'm just this old fucking not normal Jewish comedian.

I don't even know if they knew who I am or they thought I was a professor. It's not clear to me. Yeah, that's nice that you could be either unknown or a professor. Sure. Yeah, like this guy, he's a music guy. No, I'm not. I'm just a fucking guy.

And I picked all these songs and like I judged them pretty heavily. How are we gonna pull this off? Because there's something innately uncomfortable even if I brought you into the house. I said, you gotta listen to this. You know, five, you know, a minute into me turning you on to music, I'm going to be like, do you, is it, do you like it?

Or, you know, do you want to feel like, well, I'll just turn it off. I wouldn't even make it through the song. There's a fundamental insecurity and vulnerability to that experience. And now in a room, I'm in a room full of, you know, Texans it's mixed, but like, but it's like Soho house and I'm sitting there playing like Randy Newman's Guilty. When you're pulling out Randy Newman, you want people to listen and hear it. Yes, yeah, but you know what,

I was really kind of amazed and humbled by the fact, there was a guy sitting right in front, I looked at him, I said, there's no way I would even have a conversation with this guy, I don't know what he thinks, but we're opposite men. And I'm riffing and stuff, and he's fucking laughing his balls off.

And everybody played along with this thing, they sat and they listened. This group of like, midday, and I was sort of like, dude, you gotta ease up on this. The people aren't all what you think they are yeah everybody's complex you know everybody you know nobody is you know that you know set in their way you know then they wanted they were willing to have this experience or at least try and I was the one that was uncomfortable it's funny though with

stage because your experience of audiences and stage stuff, you saw that and you thought, this doesn't add up to positive. Right, or it's just gonna be like awkward. Like I don't mind negative. Awkward I could do without. You know, this is one thing you wanna avoid. But it was awkward.

But I just, like I have enough life behind me where I'm like, dude, just, you know, just, you know, play along with this. This kid didn't know what he was getting into. He didn't really necessarily set it up quite right, but you know, you can handle this. We just gotta get through 45 minutes and you like these songs and just talk about them

and get some laughs. But I did, but it was really the most weirdly vulnerable position I've been in on stage in years. Just like knowing that like, well we got two more minutes of this song. And I'm there. They're listening to it like, he really wants us to get a message out of this.

That's right. They're like, why does he like this? You know, but they all were, but like it was hard for me not to be like, all right, so we can turn it off. Yeah, that's how whenever I show somebody a song, I always cut it off halfway through. I'm like, so anyway, and they're like, just let me hear it.

It's like, well, I didn't know if you liked it. All that weird insecurity that we're projecting. And I played a Peter Green Fleetwood Mac song. And the interesting thing was about that song, because it's a beautiful, amazing song, guitar-wise, lyrically, and him, he's an interesting character. But it gets me pretty deep.

And I played that one, and I knew, I'm sort of like, I'm in Texas, you guys like blues, right? And I played that, and there's no beating that guitar on that thing. But these women came up to me like, what was the name of that one? Because that one really did something, you know? And just like, you know, regular people.

And I'm like, oh, yeah, well, that's Peter Green. I don't know if they'll go out and buy the record. But it landed. That feels good. Yeah. You know, especially turning somebody onto something. Yeah. Oh, God damn it.

But the point was, it's just that awkwardness. You know, in like, you know, in public. But then you sing. I mean, I'm still like, you know, relatively terrified to play and sing, and I can do it all right, but not confidently. I can't own it, because it's just so vulnerable to me. And it's against what we're doing on stage at standup.

You know what I mean? Yeah, you're kind of waiting, and like I choke up when I gotta play leads, because I don't think I'm good enough, and like, you know, I can't just like kind of relax into it. Like we do it stand up and I try, you know, and I think I'm getting a little better, but it's slow, man. I wrote, I had a real prolific moment of writing like 10 songs that I really liked that I thought were great.

Serious songs. Yeah. You know, with a twist to them or whatever, but serious. Yeah. And I did a show at permanent records and I had like a and I did a show. Serious songs. Yeah. You know with a twist to them or whatever, but serious. Yeah. And I did a show at Permanent Records and I had like a band. Out back?

And I, no, inside. Oh, in the, yeah, yeah. Inside, which reminds me of this place in Cleveland. It's like such a cool bar. Yeah. And I went through five of them there and it was the most nerve wracking. I was so nervous.

Leading up to it, the rehearsals and everyone in the band's like, these are great songs dude, this is gonna be fun. I'm like, really? Are you sure? Yeah, me too, always when I play with people. Yeah, but we forget that, you know, as comics, you really need everyone's attention

in a very specific way, like for real. And the idea that like when you're playing music, even if you have that kind of attention, then your own insecurity is sort of like, I gotta get through this. in a specific way, like for real. And the idea that when you're playing music, even if you have that kind of attention, then your own insecurity is sort of like, I gotta get through this. But if people are talking or they're not paying attention or they're ordering drinks

and you're like, oh, they don't like it. The kind of place you've gotta hold when you're playing music and not think about that stuff is much different, because it's music. They'll be in and out, whatever. There's noise, there's, because it's music. You know, they'll be in and out, whatever. Yeah, there's noise, there's drinks. It's weird, I did this show recently where I sang The Wait, but it was with the David Waynes band,

Ken Marino, their dad band, Dad Jam band or whatever. And it was, I sang the first verse and then was in the song, but it was amazing because it was the closing song and it just is the easiest song. And I walked out of that thinking, yeah, I could do that. I could be a rock star. Sure.

Well, that's the other thing, like also if you, like they're pretty honest about where they're coming from, but I still got this thing that's sort of like, I gotta make it my own. I'm not just some sad, late boomer doing cover songs. I wanna be the real deal. I don't want this just to be a hobby if I'm gonna do it,

which it is anyways, but I'd like to have, because I have a way of playing. I don't try to play like a record. I'm not concerned with that. I'm an interpreter out of my lack of skill. Yeah. That's a good way to put it. Yeah, and I want that to be enough. But it's not lack of skill, it's just different skill.

It's like you're... Yeah, it's not, yeah. It's because there's definitely skill there. Yeah, yeah, but like, you know, I'm limited. Yeah. And I always judge myself against these 12-year-olds on Instagram. I'm like, oh my God, why can't I just practice

a little more? I went the other day, I just like, oh my God, why can't I just practice a little more? The other day I just looked up licks in C. Yeah. I was like, I wanna just learn a couple more licks. And I went through it and I was like, wow, this guy is, he was some 14 year old kid. And I thought, how's he, what? I know.

Okay. I know, and then you gotta lean like, but I feel them, I feel the ones I have. I feel these licks. I've been playing the same ones for. Me too. Yeah. I add a couple.

And I'm trying to do a little more major scale stuff, but that's not country, working those Mixolydians into the blues, but it's not satisfying to me. And I hear even when people play it, I'm like, I don't know about that note. But after a certain point, unless you're really gonna be like, I'm gonna practice two hours a day,

I'm gonna work on these runs, I'm gonna learn new chords. I did that over the pandemic. I learned how to Travis pick, I learned a few things. I was like, I really wanna- And you can do it? Yeah, I thought I really wanna figure this out. But you gotta keep doing it. Yeah, and I'm not like, even now I haven't been doing it

and I tried the other day and it's like, oh, I can still do it but I can't. Those guys that can do it without thinking, like for me to play and sing at the same time if the lick is a little complicated, it's a mess. Got to throw the, yeah, to throw the melody into the bass and all that, yeah. It's a mess.

That's why that movie inside the Lewin Davis movie, that guy, that actor. Isaac, what's his name? Yeah, Lewin Davis movie, that guy, that actor. What's his name? Yeah, he learned how to do that. Oscar Isaac. Yeah, I saw an interview. He was like, yeah, I learned how to Travis Pick when I got the part.

And I was like, I'm gonna learn how to Travis Pick. That sounds cool. And I was like, wow, he learned that and then performed? I mean, yeah. So did Chalamet, I think. Well, I know I think that Dylan's more of a flat picker, but yeah, it's kinda, you know, you can get it, and when you get it, you're like, I'm doing it,

but then like to start singing on top of it, good luck. No. No, and it's beautiful, like the way that Towns Van Zandt plays guitar, especially when he's, in his older years, where he doesn't really care that much. Oh, he's so drunk, too. I know, and it's so sloppy, the guitar, but it's also amazing, the guitar. It's so weird, it's like he's trying to be offensive

with an acoustic guitar, and it's rhythmically like. Fuck you, acoustic. Yeah. Exactly. But, okay, so you hit the wall, you did the rehab, but they took you to the hospital, and then they finally got it out of you. Yeah.

And then you just, you locked in. I had a nice 60 days in rehab. Oh, wow, they finally got it out of you. Yeah. And then you just locked in. I had a nice 60 days in rehab. Oh, wow, it's big. I loved it. Yeah. I mean, and I was doing it. Yeah, sure.

But I got, you know what's funny, this comes from the Montreal thing too. I got a call from my standup agent when I was in there, and he didn't know I was in rehab. Yeah. And he was like, hey buddy, I just wanted to call and confirm that Mexico tour that you agreed to do. And I was like, hey buddy, I just wanted to call and confirm that Mexico tour that you agreed to do. And I was like, what?

And he goes, yeah, in Montreal, you met those two guys from Mexico and agreed to do a tour with them. And then they sent an offer. And I just said, I mean, yeah, sure, I'll do it. So like the first standup I did really after getting sober was a tour of Mexico with these two guys that I agreed to like on cocaine

and who knows what I was on. Yeah, and how'd that go? Fun as hell. Yeah? Yeah. Stayed sober? Stayed sober, they made it their mission to keep me sober. You know, like they were really excited. Did you go to Mexican meetings?

Didn't have any time. Oh. It was really like a, we're getting in the car and driving, it was fun. Oh, that's great. Like weird small cities. Yeah. They said that comedians come down and do Mexico City.

They do like, you know, the basics, but no one had had really done what I was like doing. One-nighters. Yeah, around. Yeah. It was fun. And the guy that opening for me was Roberto Flores. He was doing, he was doing all Spanish.

Yeah. But they got you? Some cities, yeah. And so, but I guess that's helpful, ultimately, when you enter recovery to have a God in place. Yeah. As opposed to like, amen, because everyone freaks out, it's like,

well, that was a God thing. If that's not an issue, that's a big chunk out. All of the things were not an issue. Admitting I had lost control, I knew I lost control that night at the hotel in Las Vegas. I knew that I was out of control. So all of those things, I was just like, it was just like my hands were out,

but it was like, help me get through these steps and then let's do this. And how'd you rebuild with the ex-wife and the kid? Was the kid hip to it? Did you embarrass yourself in front of the kid? No, and he was five. And that was something somebody told me in rehab. They said, hey, my dad got sober when I was five

and I don't remember him drinking at all. And he knew that I was sick, I think, and that I was in the hospital. They didn't come visit or anything. I didn't really want them to. And then I came out and it was Christmas time and things started moving and then I moved in with some friends and started a new life.

Over at Mojars? Yeah, in the back house or whatever. Yeah, and then the pandemic hit, and that was actually kind of a cool situation to be in. We had a bubble. Yeah, we had a bubble. And yeah, that was it. But everything was tough to rebuild,

especially when you know how people are hurt, and you can't take that away. And just going around and doing the rounds of, hey, I'm sorry, I just didn't wanna do that either. I didn't want people to think that I was just doing the thing I'm obligated to do if I wanna finish my steps. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, so that's beautiful. So it's a nice long haul, and now you tour with Nate all the time? Yeah, sometimes. and I'm like, I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it.

I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it.

I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it.

I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it.. He's assembling something. I know dude, I know. And we're all gonna be on the ride. Yeah, I mean he's really good. I love him. It's fun too because it's fun to be on tour with somebody that when you tell people they're like, oh I love him.

Yeah, well I love him too. You know, I have for a long time, I get a real kick out of his comedy. And he's always been a nice guy to me. We don't hang out much. I have for a long time, I get a real kick out of his comedy. And he's always been a nice guy to me. We don't hang out much. I had lunch with him at the Soho House in Nashville. Oh yeah?

Yeah. I had a lunch at the Soho House recently. I don't really do that too often. I never do it. And now because I did that, listening to records gig, I think I got a membership. Oh wow. For the year anyway.

Oh wow, you can maybe run into Ice Cube or something. I don't know what people do with those places. I don't know who goes there. I have a membership, so. Oh, wow. Yeah, for the year anyway, so. Oh, well, you can maybe run into Ice Cube or something. I don't know what people do with those places. I don't know who goes there either. They have a nice house. I did a show there once. Yeah, I don't know what it is. Whatever. But, well, the special's great.

It was fun, and I hope people watch it. Yeah, thanks, me too. And so what's the plan, just a tour? Yeah, just tour. Keep your shit together? Right, stuff. I made a short film that's in festivals. Oh good.

I think could be something bigger. Yeah? John C. Reilly's in it. Oh cool. It's kind of a cool thing. All right. Based off of the bit that's in my thing about the private eye at the end.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, that's fun. Yeah, he plays a private eye. Well good, man, I'm glad you're well. Yeah, thank you. Good talking to you. You too. ["Private Eye. There you go.

He's a heavy tail man. I had no idea that he went through all that. Again, Nick Special, Born Young is available on YouTube. Hang out for a minute. Looking for a community that has it all? Welcome to Crossings, the urban hub of West Lethbridge. At Crossings you'll find a vibrant village designed for living, working, and connecting.

With top-notch schools, a state-of-the-art rec center, retail spaces, and parks, it's more than a neighborhood, it's a lifestyle. Enjoy NHL-sized arenas, an aquatic center, an accessible playground, a 55-acre sports park, pathways, and a library with enriching programs. Learn more at crossingslethbridge.ca.

Now streaming. What do you know about the Happy Face killer? He's my father. It's so good to see you missing. Experience the thrilling new series. He said he killed another woman. Inspired by a true life story. If I don't deal with him,

he will never leave us alone. You don't see how the world's saying to you. Anna Lee Ashford and Dennis Quaid star. I am not responsible for what my dad did. Let's go on how you hoped. Happy Face, new series, now streaming exclusively on Paramount Plus. Folks, seven years ago this week,

I closed up shop in the old garage before moving out of my house in Highland Park. To commemorate the occasion, I did a little tour of the garage as I packed it up on episode 900. The first thing I'm looking at over here is, these are the notes for the Obama Interview and I saved this this thing from the Secret Service

Telephone trap sheet, please fill out the blank spaces with as much information as possible Special agents may sign as a witness and then bomb threat sheet I don't know what all that meant, but it has a page. It looks pretty good. Oh, I see you had to checklist I guess I checked this stuff I didn't fill out here And then there's just the notes from Brendan that we put together to talk to Obama about and then there's my notes and some More notes, so I should keep this It was a fairly complicated day so that goes in the document box. Oh, it's already it's already happening. Oh in the document box. Oh it's already it's already happening. Oh my god. This weird thing is a strange man made out of pipe cleaners straddling a rat. A plastic or

rubber rat. I've had this since college. I remember making it when I was high. The pipe cleaner guy has a very defined cock and balls for some reason. He's riding a rat. Seems like a rare piece of ephemera. I will keep that. That's episode 900 with the full garage tour and my talk with Nick Nolte. You can listen to that for free on all podcast platforms. To get every episode of WTF ad free, sign up for WTF Plus.

Just go to the link in the episode description or go to WTFPod.com and click on WTF plus and a reminder before we go this podcast is hosted by a cast here's some throwback guitar from one of my big hits from earlier on in the podcast guitar history So So So So So So So So So So Over there, over there Boomer lives, monkey, La Fonda, cat angels everywhere.