WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1659 - Dustin Chafin / Darby Allin

Episode Date: July 10, 2025

Dustin Chafin's path to comedy went from a Texas trailer park to a Mormon conversion before winding up in New York where he almost met a tragic end. That's also where he met Marc and a young Nate Bargatze, who got his first stage time thanks to Dustin, a break that Nate did not forget. Dustin and Marc catch up on each other's lives after a nearly 20 year gap. Plus, Marc talks with AEW's Darby Allin who just got back from the tippy top of the world, having climbed Mount Everest. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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What the fucking ears? What's happening? I'm Marc Maron. This is my podcast. Welcome to it. How's it going out there? How'd everybody do? I don't know. General there? How'd everybody do? I don't know general question. How'd everybody do?

I did okay this morning. Do you do okay this morning? How far into the day are you? What's going on? Oh my god, there's a lot of stuff. There's a lot of stuff. A lot of things are breaking down in me. A lot of things are breaking down in me, in my body. My eyes are fucked up. Let's ask for another day. Not bad, just keep, you know, I mean, every year, a little, little worse. Everything's a little worse on the physical side, but you know, that's the gift.

That's the gift of continuing to live. You can just watch things in your body slowly break down. How's it going? Good morning. Yeah, that's where I'm at. Look, today, couple of interesting things today. Well, first of all, I'm gonna talk to Dustin Chaffin. He's a comedian who I literally have known for, wow.

I don't know. It's gotta be 25 years. I haven't talked to him, I don't think, in 20 years. And he was around when I was in New York. I'm guessing, gotta be 2000s, early 2000s. He used to run a room. He was, I think he was roommates. We talk about it, but I think he was roommates

with Bargetzi. He tours with Bargetzi now. But back in the day, he had sort of a gimmick going, and I think he's over it. But we talk about it. He texted me out of nowhere, and he was like, can we talk? And I'm like, yeah, man, yeah. You can go to DustinChafin.com to see his tour dates.

I'm just glad he's still around. He's coming up. Now, the other thing that we're going to do today is kind of interesting. Now, a lot of you know me. I'm not challenging myself is there's a spectrum to it. Okay? You know, I don't go overboard, certainly not physically. You know, I keep in shape, I do the exercising. I think I'm actually, I believe that Men's Health magazine is for some reason gonna do a piece on me.

And I tried to make it clear to the person arranging it, that like, you know, I'm not ripped and I'm not really abiding by any specific protocol diet wise other than the one that I've created for myself. But I am fit. Is that gonna be enough? I'd prefer no pictures with the shirt off. I don't really wanna do any action shots.

But look, I push it. I do my thing, man. You know, I mean, I'd go up that mountain. I was going up a lot more. I haven't been going up lately because since I broke my foot and passed out, and a slight fear, but not so much going up, going down. And for some reason, me and Gimme Gimme Dan, we choose to run down.

And you don't want to compromise, you know, your pattern. You don't want to compromise your system. But again, you get old, you got to tweak the system. You got to make some compromises But nonetheless, that's a hard hike and I do it frequently enough to be used to it, but it's still it's still fucking hard So that's the limit. I don't need to necessarily push myself beyond The limits I'm comfortable with of just staying in shape. I've never been one of these guys that's had to achieve I'm comfortable with of just staying in shape. I've never been one of these guys that's had to achieve, you know, kind of personal monumental bests

in the form of, you know, doing something that no one else does, not jumping out of planes, you know, I'm not climbing Everest, which comes to my guest right now, my special guest. This guy, all right, look, we posted something on the Full Marin bonus feed last week, and we figured, you know, we shared some of it

with the whole audience today, because it was, you know, it's a unique piece of conversation. If you don't know about the Friday show on the Full Marin, my producer, Brendan McDonald, and my board op and coworker from back in the day, Chris Lopresto, do a bonus show every week where they recap everything basically in the WTF Orbit. Last week they had a guest on, Darby Allen.

Okay, he's an AEW wrestler and a pro skateboarder, and he also just got back from the from the top of Mount Everest. And look, I've never spoken with anyone who climbed Mount Everest before, so they had me come on to the Friday show and talk with Darby. Now, okay, a couple things. He'll be auctioning off some items from his climb to raise money for Tony Hawk's skateboard project, but he also has other reasons he wanted to make the climb and he told us about him. So this was me on the Friday show last week talking with Darby Allen over video chat from his home, okay, and you'll hear Brendan here

getting the introduction started. Well Darby, good to meet you. Glad you're here with us. I figured it was a great time to have you on with Mark because Mark is also a guy who climbs a lot of mountains. He climbs them figuratively, he climbs them literally. And I thought that you just came back from a mountain and first of all, how are you? Are you doing fine now that you're back? Yeah, no, fuck yeah. I'm surprisingly feeling great. I thought, you know, coming back, I was going to be all mangled and shit,

and it was going to be like snap back. Because in my outside of just wrestling, I skateboard all the time, and I do all these other crazy stuff. So pretty much as soon as I got back, I was off to a plane to Bahamas, the film Shark Week. So it was a, it's like a whole thing, but my body feels great. I feel mentally great. And that's the coolest thing is I've learned so much inside within myself on that mountain. There's so much stuff I can get into when it comes to the life lessons that I've learned on that mountain.

Because a lot of people say it's not about stumbling Mount Everest, it's about conquering yourself and your inside and pulling stuff out. Okay. All right. Well, I got some questions then. Let's start with the dead people. Now how many dead people did you walk by? I believe there was like a total of eight.

But you know, the crazy thing is when I went up and then I instantly When I did the summon I was coming back down You see all these new dead bodies that you didn't see within the last 12 hours that word that just got there Yeah, like new ones that die long hours. Yeah Yeah, just dropping dead up there like every day. Oh, I don't know about every day, but it was literally I went up I when I did the summit and then I was coming down all of a sudden you see a new dead body that wasn't there on the Trail 12 hours ago different jacket It was pretty crazy because then you start thinking about

Your own situation and obviously they don't go there with the death wish. They go there thinking, oh shit, like I'm gonna do this motherfucking mountain. And then it just doesn't work out. And it just, you're like, oh my God, how did the Sherpas, they just like leave. It's just like a whole thing that goes. I don't know why they leave there,

but maybe the guy's like, I'm gonna climb this fucking mountain if it's the last thing I do. And it turns out it was. Yeah, there is a thing called summit fever where people just don't know when to turn around. And I felt that, I felt that 100% because when I was climbing summit day,

we left camp four at 11 p.m. and I was going to the summit and then out of fucking nowhere, there's this traffic jam. you hear these stories of traffic jams all the time. Yeah But here it was just a good weather day So everybody wanted to almost summit like that day and you know You think about the grand scheme of people on Everest a little only a little over 400 permits were issued this year You know people like oh my god, everybody and their mom's doing fucking Everest. I'm like, that's not the case.

400 people in the whole fucking world doing this mountain only. But like in general, do you, just by judging by the way you live your life, do you know when to turn around? No, not really. Because I'll explain I'll explain in detail about the whole psychology behind the way I live and why I live the way I live.

But it's like the first thing when I was about to do this mountain, the guy asked me, are you willing to die on that mountain? And then you're like, Yeah, absolutely. Because if you're not, don't even step foot on the mountain. And then you're like, Yeah, absolutely. Because if you're not, don't even step foot on the mountain. Because you got loved ones, you got all this shit like my mom and my brother walked to base camp with me. I remember my brother and my mom. After it was time for them to leave, and I'm staying there to get ready to do this mountain. And I remember them walking away and I'm like crying to myself thinking,

this is not going to be the last time I see them. And then I'm like, I need to like be so strong and finish this mountain. And it just puts things in perspective where you're like, damn, man, I could see if I have say a family with like kids and stuff. I went, I had almost feel like I wouldn't be on that mountain because it's, it's kind of a selfish thing to do, but at the same time, it just, it becomes really real fast. It's a high price to pay for recreation. Yeah, but it's just such a spiritual journey

and pulling stuff out of you. And like I said, when I got to the top of the mountain, I was crying. It was just such a overwhelming feeling of accomplishment and it's like pulling something out of yourself and oh you know you hear this the traffic jams it goes back to the traffic jam yeah all this stuff about the traffic jams and then instantly we're climbing and then all ten everything just everything just stops. And you're like, oh shit, what's going on? And then there's about a little over a hundred people

on this line and you're not moving on the side of the mountain for an hour, over an hour. You're standing in the same spot. And I start to panic because I feel, I see all the Sherpas that I'm with, they're getting cold. They're smacking their hands together, stomping their feet. And I was like, oh shit, these guys. And I was like, what's going on?

I got here, traffic jam. And I was like, damn. And then I was like, people are running out of their oxygen tanks and some people are like turning back and just be like, yo, fuck this. And then I could see right there, I was like, how am I gonna explain to anybody

I didn't do Everest because of a traffic jam? It's just a hard thing. you kind of just hit the panic button You're like I I felt a hundred percent summit fever on that fucking mountain at that time I was like I'm gonna fucking die on this mountain before I turn back and it's a real thing in it Oh, you mean summit summit fever is you've got to get there not like an actual physical sick Yeah, I think a mental thing where you're thinking. Oh shit, man I I you know so much goes into it so much time. Yeah the money Just everything that goes into and you just me

Like in the sense of being like, you know publicly saying I'm climbing Mount Everest So there's like these expectations that I know this guy's gonna fucking do this And I'm like man, I got to do this because the year before I was going to fucking do this. Uh, and I was like, man, I got to do this because the year before I was supposed to climb, I broke my foot in a match a week before I was supposed to fly out. I just don't get like, if they only gave out 400, uh, you know, uh, permits for the year, we're all 400 on the mountain the same day you were. No. So it's all spread out.

People pick different summit days and it's like, it's just like a weather window. But the day I was going it felt like there was like 160 people going for the summit from camp four um which up there seems like a lot when when it happens uh um but it was just yeah there it was really crazy just being up there and you kind of and I'm no mountain expert I don't I don't claim to be a mountain expert I just claim to work really hard and dedicate myself quick and apply myself. And just seeing a lot of people up there that had no business of being up there. Where there it's like, holy shit, this is crazy.

Like, like families with kids or something? Well, just physically, physically not being like, right. Right. And they're just getting pulled up and, and a lot of cultures, Well, just physically, physically not being like, right, right. And they're just getting pulled up and in a lot of cultures, some cultures, it's like if you climb Mount Everest, you get a promotion in your job.

And then, yeah, it's crazy because then some people go do it but they can't summit, so they Photoshop themselves on top of the mountain to get to the summit. And then they find out that it's fucking fake and they're like, fire this guy. Stolen mountain valor. And then they're like, fire this guy. Stolen mountain valor.

And then I was like, dude, I got a summit that I can't photoshop myself on ever. But it was, yeah, it was very humbling, but it just comes from, you know, I don't know how, yeah, it just, there's a lot of moving parts of why I even want it to start the fucking mountain in the first place. But based on like, you know, like what you do for a living and how you've lived your life and sort of acknowledging that a lot of that, you know, comes from whatever damage you have in your childhood, were you able to let go any of that going up there? Yeah, well, it's also just letting this, proving to yourself that you're capable of anything.

And I know that sounds generic, but honestly, we live in the world, in the professional wrestling world, the guy who runs the show controls how far you're gonna make it or how low you're gonna make it. So someone's in control of your destiny. It's not like say boxing or mixed martial arts where I going to prove I'm the fucking best by knocking you out. It doesn't work like that in the world of wrestling. There's so much, you know, politicking and random shit that goes into it. And I wanted to just prove to myself I'm fucking capable of this. Because you can't politic your way up that mountain. You can't, there's no helicopter that goes up that high where you can jump out and take a nice little photo on the summit And you know I climbed Everest and just lie to people

You got a fucking scratch and call your way up that fucking shit And then that's where it was so humbling to remind myself what I'm capable of because you get into the world of wrestling There's nothing else like the world of wrestling to me. It's like the most amazing nothing else like the world of wrestling to me. It's like the most amazing job in the world from someone like myself, because it's like stunts, acting, it checks off all the boxes that I'm very passionate about. But on the flip side, like I said,

someone else is controlled your destiny. Someone else is controlled how far you're gonna make it, how low you're gonna make it, because you can have this passion. And I'm the fucking man is like, well, no, you're not. You're gonna be losing every week. And it's just like, I don't know. It's just that, dude, I see the fucking man is like well, no, you're not you're gonna be losing every week and it's just like I see the world of wrestling and I love I like I said, I love fucking wrestling But it's kind of crazy

how people get into this small bubble and then Allows them to be chewed up and spit out because all it is is a 15 minute ride Yeah, and then if you don't focus on your fucking real life It's gonna queue you up and spit you out and you're gonna believe your own hype. And then next thing you know, you're being this character that you are on TV in real life. And it's like, dude, detach. I always wanted to be the person coming into the world of wrestling. I always wanted to leave the same person coming out. I didn't want to just all of a sudden get this ego

and just all of a sudden believe in my own hype. And like, I'm fucking Darby Allen. It's like, you have to fuck up, dude. And, uh, there's, there's like a bunch of like little parts in it. And to be able to do this mountain in the middle of what I feel is my physical. Peak where I feel amazing and Tony con, uh, the owner of AEW being like, yo, do this shit. It's like, cool. Because a lot of people in the world of wrestling, man, they just chew you up and spit you out

and leave you with nothing. And the fact that he allowed me to do this is I'm so grateful for it. And you know, it's funny, we did so much, just, I don't know, it started from an early age of trying to push myself out of my comfort zone. And the moment I started doing crazy shit is when I started breaking down these mental barriers in my head that were holding me back.

And then next thing I know, like that's kind of that was my ammo to keep moving forward because no one I say no one's willing to go to the places I'm willing to go and wrestling physically and I mean that. And I was like, yeah, nobody's the more I do crazy shit, the more I feel. Um, and you know, anything's possible. How does it feel when you get hurt? You like it? It's yeah, no, because dude, the thing is I do so much physical recovery. People don't know my physical recovery regimen and everything.

There's so much that goes into that. So I feel great. Everyone's like, you're not going to be able to walk when you're 30. And I'm like, well, motherfucker, I that goes into that. So I feel great. Everyone's like, you're not gonna be able to walk when you're 30. And I'm like, well, motherfucker, I'm 32 right now. And I feel great. And you know, but it's just like, just keeping updated with all that stuff.

Wait, so how do you, how do you rehab or you're what's your regimen for, you know, jumping off of a 20 foot ladder onto a, you know, glass? You know, honestly, I feel like the years of skateboarding got me ready for that, because nothing's harder than concrete, landing on concrete and doing all this shit. It just, but it's like the physical recovery afterwards

is just like a lot of like stretching the ice baths. And then like I said, it's like mental too. You take care of your brain, your body just feels like nice and loose. People carry so much tension, you know, just being tense all the time, and their body just breaks down from their minds being, you know. So when you're falling from a ladder, you're pretty relaxed. Dude, yeah. Oh, yeah, no, absolutely, absolutely.

And just goes back to the, before I jump off the ladders or crazy shit, I'm like, I say to myself, I'm going to the hospital tonight. And it's just like, it's like, so, it's so, you're at peace, you gotta be at peace with it. You gotta be at peace with the worst to come, just like Everest. You gotta be at peace with it.

Did you follow it, did you follow it all on Everest? Did you go tumbling? No, no, you're pretty strapped in to the safety rope at all times. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, you're pretty safe. But that, you know, I seen a lot of people get helicoptered out and shit like from Camp 3,

and Camp 3 is a little over 23,000 feet. It was fucking gnarly. But you just have to stay like focused. And I remember being in that tent for all day, just being like, you might die tonight or you might die tomorrow. And you're just like, you're constantly telling yourself. But how do you, how do people die up there? What, hypothermia? What is it?

It can be anything. It could be anything. It could be like, sometimes people's bodies just give out. It's not so much hypothermia, I feel like, because they got so much new equipment and staying warm and everything. I just think it's pure exhaustion. Well, nothing about what you're saying makes me want to do it.

But Mark, that's the fun part. That's the fun part. That's the fun part because the shit that no one else wants to touch is the places I'm willing to go because just like all those years ago when people told me I wasn't going to amount to shit, now it's like finding new things to keep accomplishing and pushing yourself constantly out of your comfort zone. But I just never wanted to try to appease people to the point where as a detriment to my own, you know, growth as a human. And then I, you know, so this whole self exploring with the Everest and everything, it was just very awesome. And

then this is a funny story, because when I first started going to agree to do Everest, I was a single man. So I was like, Oh, well, there's no freaking thing I have to worry. You know, nobody has. But then halfway through, I reconnect with this girl I had a crush on at school bus and high school in Seattle. Yeah, I had a crush on her. And then we reconnected. And then all of a sudden we start dating. So it's a whole new level of like, oh shit, now if I die I feel like. Yeah, she'll be sad.

Yeah, but it's a crazy story because I had a crush on her in high school and then she ended up getting shot in the head. Wow. What the fuck? Jesus Christ. Yeah, she ended up getting shot in the head in high school And I was like, oh my god this crush of mine from the school bus got murdered, but she luckily survived How did how did she recover from getting shot in the head? Yeah. Oh she became that inspired her to become an ICU nurse

Oh, wow. Oh, wow. That's awesome. But fast forward I'm on top of Everest on the summit and I I film this video where I proposed to her Oh, no shit. Yeah, so it was like a so yeah now we're engaged, but it's like a fun like full circle moment But I'm thinking the whole time now. I'm not just worrying about myself I'm worrying about sure this future wife of mine and all this stuff like you gotta you gotta make it out alive You know and at such a level of, oh my God, you can't be selfish anymore. Like I said with my brother and my mom,

like dude, I gotta survive for them. I gotta survive for this fiance and all this stuff. It's such a- What are you gonna do about this? I mean, I gotta assume that because of the way you've lived your life, your whole life, that you're kind of addicted to the thrill of it. Do you see that letting up at all? No, no, absolutely not.

That's good. I never wanna lose that. That's never gonna be lost on me because, yeah. Dude, I spent so many times in Seattle just staring at a wall and being like, there's a whole world out there. And the moment I get a taste of it, I'm never gonna let up.

And that's the, I don't know, it's been And the moment I get a taste of it, I'm never gonna let up. And that's the, you know, I don't know, it's been a wild ride, but the beauty of it all is, like I said earlier, Tony Khan just being like, yo dude, I want you to live your life outside of the ring and be happy. And that's the cool balance. That's something I can never take for granted. And it's something Vince McMahon would never say.

Well, definitely not. It's like, yeah, I feel, yeah, no, I just feel so free. And I told Tony before I left for Everest, I had to talk with him and I was like, hey, man, I just, I already feel like I'm the champion of the world. I don't need the championship belt per se to feel validated because I'm already winning in life. I feel so free and I feel so happy. I was like, dude, I'm just grateful for everything.

Belt would be nice though, right? That depends on, I don't know, man. Yeah. I really don't give a shit. I'm gonna be honest with you. So much people are so concerned with winning this thing, but I just want to have good storylines. I just want to have good storylines. I'm not trying to be like, I need to be the top guy.

I just want to have good shit. Well, that's great. You got Shark Week coming up. There is All In Texas coming up, so your date card is full. But we appreciate you taking the time to come on here with us while we're we're in the process of wrapping up thanks for having me on well it's great meeting you man yes sir there you go as you heard Darby will be at the AEW all-in pay-per-view this Saturday July 12th he'll be part of Discovery's Shark Week on Thursday, July 24th.

The show caught Shark Strike back. And he's raising money for Tony Hawk's Skate Park project to bring skate parks to neighborhoods that can't afford him. Okay, visit skatepark.org to learn more. All right? Look folks, it's summertime, but instead of relaxing, you are stuck in a meal planning rut. Are you cycling through the same old dinners while juggling work, family, and your summer

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Stop trying to figure out what to make for dinner and open the door for Home Chef. Again, that's homechef.com slash WTF. And you must be an active subscriber to receive free dessert for life. Okay, here we go. Dustin Chaffin is here. And again, Dustin and I go way back,

but I don't think we've really talked for like 20 years. You can find his tour dates and watch his special at DustinChafin.com. This is me talking to my old pal, Dustin. You searched for your informant, who disappeared without a trace. You knew there were witnesses, but lips were sealed. You swept the city, driving closer to the truth, while curled up on the couch with your cat. There's more to imagine when you listen. Discover heart-pounding thrillers on Audible. Rrrr, meow.

["Pump It Up"] Pull that mic up on your face. Here we go. You know how to do the podcast thing? Hey. I've been on your face. There we go. You know how to do the podcast thing? We've been on a few. Yeah. I'm wondering. I'm a little confused by the microphone.

I love it. The New York Hazen. Is that what it is? Oh yeah, it's great. I don't know. I think I've done it before New York. It's only certain people I can land it with. Oh, yeah.

I think you've always been one of them. I don't know why. I just wanted to bust your balls constantly. Oh, yeah. Some of them I talk about in therapy still. Oh, wow. Do you? That's great. Oh, yeah. No. Okay. Well, there was more back then. You had a whole getup going. Oh, yeah. No. Well, there was more back then. You had a whole get-up going.

Oh, yeah. That was the best. One time you said to me, you go, yeah, this outfit. It's like, you know, when you see somebody in LA and you just look at him, you go, that's sad. I think I burned those pants. Or they like leather or snake skin or something. You know, it's whatever.

No, yeah. You go with the girl that you're with and they're always like, they try to dress you and you're like, yeah. So that was the situation? Oh yeah, that's always the situation. Well, that shows a bit of a lack of will It does.

on your part. You know, yeah, I don't know. But at that time, like, so you think it's been 20 years? It's been a long time years since I've seen you? Like, had a conversation. Cause we were, I felt like we were, you know, kind of close for a minute,

and then we had a little falling out, and then I hadn't seen you in a long time. Do you remember what the falling out was about? Absolutely. Can we just get into it? How long ago was that? Well, I would, yeah. I mean, I want to talk about when I first met you though.

We will, we will. We'll get to that later, or do you want the falling out first? No, I'm curious because maybe I can ease your mind at the beginning. Well- Am I the bad guy? You're not, not really. All right. I think it's kind of funny.

I think I was dealing with it in the best situation. It was like, I think I came at you in a comic way, and you needed me to come to you in a human way. And it was one of those situations. Oh, really? Yeah, because your second wife and Mishna, she used to make us go to those one woman shows she was doing.

Sure. She was like working them out. So it'd be like six of us there. And so I went to quite a few of them. And it was always, she was like working them out. Yeah, yeah. So there'd be like six of us there. Yeah. And so I went to quite a few of them. Yeah. And it was always only like five or six of us. Yeah.

And then when you guys were going through a divorce, Yeah. I said, I said, hey man, I'm sorry you're going through this, but at least we don't have to go to those shows anymore. And you went off on me. Really? Yeah, and you're like, who the fuck are you? What'd your cowboy hat?

And you just like went off and I was just like, dude, I just, I really thought that was the best thing I could have said to you. It is actually. And it was just, I guess you were in a place. Oh, you know why is because she left me. Yeah, okay. So, so, so it wasn't like I was over anything.

Yeah, I got you. Do you know like- Still tender, yeah. Right, exactly. Like, you know, I mean, it was, that's a anything. Yeah, I got you. Do you know like? Still tender, yeah. Right, exactly. Like, you know, I mean, it was, that's a pretty good line. I thought so. Yeah, well that's a- I thought I was crushed, gonna crush with that. Yeah, and there, we didn't talk for years.

I mean, it was kind of over after that. Well, you still had the cowboy hat. It broke my heart, yeah. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. It's okay, I stopped wearing the cowboy hat. You know, yeah, well, that took time. Should have given me the heads up when he stopped and I would have talked to you again.

Sounds like it was mostly about the cowboy hat. I don't know, you got a lot of heroes who wore cowboy hats, you know? That's the thing. Yeah, do I? Yeah. Like who? I don't know.

I didn't like it when Bill Hicks wore a cowboy hat. I didn't like it. That was fun, that was perfect. That was like, that was part of the whole, like Stevie Ray Vaughan. Yeah, I get it, but you know, you know, I-I barely like it. Well, he can wear it, cause he's got everything else going. Not a lot of Indian jewelry, and got the Stratocaster, and he can do something.

I get it's a get-up, but in comedy it's like, do we need the hats? I don't know. I think com- that's why we do comedy. So you can wear the hat? Do whatever you want. Yeah, but you were doing a whole thing. You had boots, you were flipping your hands funny. You had a whole... Well, it's from Texas. It's a whole package.

I was nervous, it's from Texas. It's like a tick. Do you still have it? Not as much. I've grown a lot. Well, no, I mean- I'm a better comic, but it was the early days. No, I'm not, I didn't mean you were a bad comic,

but for me, it felt like he's working this hook, this weird tilt thing. It comes in. Now, see, like, now you probably still do it, and now I'm just beating you up again. No, I just eyeballed that zen, because I got off him. Oh. Why'd you get off him? Let me ask you.

Was it making you tired? No, I think it was just, I think when you go in for your insurance and stuff, if you have nicotine in your blood, and like... Oh. Is that true? I think so, yeah, that's what I was told. Wait, so you had to get a blood test for insurance? Yeah.

Now I'm saying it like that. If you have nicotine in your blood, or whatever, it's like a whole thing. No kidding. Yeah. I had no idea, but I didn't know you had it. So you're trying to get new insurance. It wasn't just that.

I think I just like, I go from one addiction to another and I was just like, and I was just trying to tell myself, all right, I'm quit this right now. Yeah. Well, yeah, I mean, it's like, I thought that too. Unfortunately, I thought like, well, these have got to be fucking with my gums. And then I went to the dentist and they're not.

Okay. Like, cause I thought they were causing my recession. The dentist said, well, I've always had recession. He goes, no, your, your gums are actually more healthy than most people that come in here. Cause I floss them and everything, but they always had recession. He goes, no, your gums are actually more healthy than most people that come in here, because I floss them and everything. But they're receded. But I thought that I was just fucking, those are doing,

but I don't, they can't be good for you. Well, nicotine, I think is, I don't know what that does. Nobody really knows what that does. I'm sure they know. What do you think it does? Well, I think it constricts your blood vessels. I think there's a reason why you get the high or the low with it. It's a complex drug. But I think if youricts your blood vessels. I think there's a reason why you get the high or the low with it.

It's a complex drug. But I think if you're not smoking it, I think most of the damage from smoking comes from the heat and the other shit in there and tobacco, but like sort of non tobacco nicotine. I don't think it's good for your blood vessels. And I've heard that it's probably not great for your pancreas.

But, you know, I'm trying to, you know, just, you know, keep well, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Just trying to stay well with the addiction. So, I don't... Yeah. So, you're off everything? Everything. 17 years, Saturday.

Well, how long off the Zen? Off the Zen, about a year. Yeah. So, cigarettes? Everything. I'm off of them. How long off of those? Probably about a year. Yeah. So cigarettes? Everything. I'm off on that one. How long off for those?

Probably about three years. I went back and that's when I got to the Zens. I was sure. Cause American, I love cigarettes, man. I love everything about it. I can't, I really see somebody smoking. It's always like, you know, some raggedy person. It's like, what are you doing?

But then I, but I miss it. I don't know if I miss it anymore. Cause it's been a very long time since I smoked cigarettes every day. And yeah, then, but I miss it. I don't know if I miss it anymore because it's been a very long time since I smoked cigarettes every day. And then I go through cigars. Sometimes I go through like dip pouches and the Zin seemed to be a nice meeting. I was off everything,

like literally everything for three years once. And it felt, it felt fine. But then eventually it's sort of like, what, you know, fine isn't great. I need a little bump of something. Well, caffeine and nicotine is the perfect combination. I've gone off caffeine too, I was off that too. Really?

Yeah, but then it's just like, it's kind of flat. It's sort of like, yeah, it's good, I guess. Whereas when you're just chasing it all the time. But so, I guess I check in on you occasionally. I remember a few years ago, maybe it's been that long, I saw Nate and I said, how's Dustin doing?

He goes, I got him. He's all right. I got him. Yeah, I mean, you know, you need those guys sometimes. You certainly do, dude. You do. But you know what? It's like, you know, he, when I, you know,

I ran the Boston comedy club, you know, towards the end there, I was the guy, you know, that was running that. In New York, yeah. In New York, and he was one of my barkers. It was him and Pete Holmes and like, you know, all those guys. So I was long gone. You were doing other stuff.

I loved watching what they tried to do with you. Yeah. That was always fun. Which one was that? Just all this stuff they tried to do. Like what? They tried to make you a host, like a talk show host. Oh yeah.

That was interesting. Just watching, you know, all that happen. So what year were we talking? 2004 maybe, 2005, 2006. That's when I was at Boston I think. So I was gone though. I mean, I was coming back. You were here I think.

Yeah. You were doing stuff. Well, I was back in New York in 2004, right? You know, for Air America. And then back in New York in 2004, right? For Air America, and then back again. That was fun to watch that too. You're saying fun like, what, disaster? Yeah, a little bit, but it's amazing.

But look where you are. I mean, just like, your failing is epic and amazing. And then it's like, because they didn't know what to do with you. No one knew what to do with me. I didn't know what to do with me. No, not at all. Zero idea.

But when did you, like, cause like Nate, you know, when I'm, you know, when I kind of caught on to Nate before everyone else in Michigan, before he got anywhere, you know, he was like, yeah, I met you before, you know, but it was that room in Times Square, right? Oh, Broadway, yeah, upstairs. Yeah, that little fucking room.

Yeah, little 80s theater. And that was you running that yeah, and chubby Nate Chubby Nate sweaty Nate with a little glasses and little bandy sweaty drunken eight Who I didn't remember at all for joke Nate Well a lot of us talked to you it The first time I talked to you was amazing. I saw you at the New York Comedy Club. I was a busboy. I just started doing that.

Which one, the one on 24th? On 24th. Oh my God. That fucking dump? Oh yeah. It was just held together by duct tape and tears. That was awful. But they had that George Foreman grill.

Oh yeah. Well, I worked there. They didn't have that. They had a full kitchen. And I used to drop mozzarella sticks and French fries. But it couldn't have been a very big kitchen. It was pretty big. Was it from another place?

Yeah, it used to be like a Thai restaurant or something before it was that. And then they were like, eventually there were three rooms, one room seated four people. Well, what ended up happening is they couldn't move this stove out of the hallway, so they put up drywall. Right now there's a stove in the path to the stage. There's a full-on stove in there.

Covered with drywall? Yes, covered with drywall. And there was that one bathroom with the sliding door. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a fucking disaster. It was horrible, but it was electric, man. All right, so you saw me there first. It was CBGBs. It was horrible, but it was electric, man. So you saw me there first. It was CBGBs.

It was a thing. It didn't matter. Yeah, CBGBs for people that didn't necessarily have that much talent. Well, it was three guys. It was you, it was Todd, Barry, and Attell. We'd make the rounds there, but it was sort of like a B room.

Sure, of course. Yeah, but now all rooms are arguably B rooms. But you would work out there. Sure, you know, you pick up the spot. But when I saw you come in, I remember you came in with your perfect 90s hair, leather jacket, and you were talking, and you were holding court,

and you were talking about how you bombed Australia. And I remember this being this thing. And then I think I'd never heard a comic talk like that. Like I never heard anybody like that vulnerable. Made a career out of it. But it was amazing, because everybody was trying to be cool and like, hey, I crushed or whatever.

And you were the first guy I ever heard like just go, oh, it was terrible. Sent me home. They hated me. They sent me home from a country. Oh, did they? Yeah, it's a week into a four week run and they're like i don't think this is working out i'm fucking bombed so hard i had to fly back home and i relapsed on that flight oh wow that was brutal dude so so that was memorable for you you're like well you were just so honest and like

it was just great to hear that because i never never heard any, I was brand new in the comedy. I never heard any, everybody's always trying to flex and be a cool guy. And you were just like, oh man, that's horrible, dude. I grabbed the mic, I couldn't get anything going. Like it was just so beautiful. Because I hadn't experienced you yet. So it was like this beautiful manic thing happening.

And I was like, okay, all right, this guy. And then ever since, I was following you and loved everything you did, I didn't care what kind of set it was. Except for- I couldn't wait to bomb and tell people that I bombed. Like, I thought that was the coolest thing. Yeah, yeah.

It was so punk rock. Yeah. And that's why you and I are where we at. Yeah. That's why we've chosen the other path. Yeah, well, you know. No, but like, yeah, you like everything I do except for the things where they're trying to make me do things. No, well, you know. No, but like, yeah, yeah, you like everything I do up except for the things where they're trying to make me do things. No, I love

that. I love watching them force it. They force it. I mean, when I say film, I go, look at you. I'm saying it. You're doing amazing. Yeah. But it's like, no, but it's like, it's like they never quite got it. Yeah. I think you had to do stuff like this. Yeah, I didn't quite get it to be myself. So that was the journey. But see, you're bussing tables in New York. Was that your first job? No, I mean, I guess.

I mean, when did you get to New York? I went to Parsons in New York. I got there around 90s, I guess 95 or 96. You went to fucking art school? Went to art school, man. And you finished? I did, I got a bachelor's. You went to fucking art school? Went to art school, man. Then you finished? I did, I got a bachelor's. In what, what were you?

Well, in fine arts, but a fashion is what I wanted to do. Oh, oh, so now like I'll let you off the hook with the hat and the boots. You're just- I'm just a weird fashion guy. Yeah, you're just working on something. Yeah, just trying to put it all together. Fashion, so that was the dream?

I think so. Were we gonna design shit? Yeah. Mostly boots? I wanted to be Karl Lagerfeld all together. Fashion, so that was the dream? I think so. Were we gonna design shit? Yeah. Most we boots? I wanna be Karl Lagerfeld, man. Oh, okay. I wonder, is this the ponytail with the chicks? Like I had no idea what it was.

Oh, so you were just in it for the women. No, but I do love fashion. That's interesting though, but you didn't necessarily want a regular education. You were gonna go to New York and be a fashion guy. Yeah, I mean, I wasn't that great at school, but I was good at drawing and stuff. Yeah, where'd you come from?

Texas, Dallas, Fort Worth area. Really? Yeah. Born in Kilgore, Texas. Kilgore. Trailer park town, yeah. Were you in a trailer park? When I was a kid, yeah. So your family lived in a trailer park? When I was a little kid, yeah.

Yeah? Up until infant to like six, six years old. The whole family? Whole family, yeah. Stayed together? Yeah, like six, six or something. The whole family? Whole family, yeah. Stayed together. Yeah, my dad married my mom, she had two kids. Yeah. And then had me. Yeah.

And then we- You were the third kid of them. I was the third kid of them, yeah. Yeah. Two different dads. Oh, she was married before your dad? Yeah, yeah, twice, yeah. So you got, oh, so they're all separate fathers?

They're all half brothers, they're both half brothers, yeah. But they all have separate fathers? Yes. Oh, that's exciting. Do you still? They had the double Christmases, I hated it. Double presents. You get along with those guys?

Nah, one no. One is dead to me, and then one just got sober, so I'm okay with him because, you know. So everybody was fucked up? Oh, yeah. Whole family's fucked up. Really? What'd your dad do? Well, he sold, he was a salesman. He sold, like, fire alarms.

Like, they used to be these big metal fire alarms back in the 70s. I don't know if you remember those at all. Like, he sold those. Oh, yeah, yeah, they said, fire on them. Yeah. He sold them in the trailer park, and then he got a job selling cars, Oh, yeah, yeah, they said fire on him. Yeah He sold him in the trailer park and then he many guys up selling cars and we kind of moved out of the park It's a hustler. Yeah, we ended up in Wichita Falls and Kansas. No, Texas, Wichita Falls, Texas. Oh, okay

It's about 200 miles from Dallas. You're real born in the blood Texan. Yeah Yeah, so that's why they you know the why the cowboy hat, once you know all that, it makes more sense. It's all right. I'm not defending it, I'm just saying it just makes more sense. Yeah, but it wasn't, you weren't wearing it like you rode something.

You weren't wearing it like you worked in the cowboy hat. My high school had a rodeo team. Were you on that? No. Sorry. My high school had a rodeo team. Were you on that? No.

Sorry. Look, dude, I'll be honest with you. I went to a camp when I was younger in Pecos, New Mexico, where you were required to have a cowboy hat because you were gonna be riding horses. Yeah, I've ridden horses. So I've owned a couple of Stetson's, the straw ones, not the felt ones.

And I've gone through periods with hats. I've bent them down like you did. You make the point on it so you can look like Willie. Yeah, I've done that, but it was a long time ago. I wore out several different pairs of black cowboy boots. I'm not adverse to it. I was just- Oh, I've seen your cowboy shirts.

I've seen your leather pants. I would do that face. The leather pants I still have. I'm going to get adverse to it. I would just- Oh, I've seen your cowboy shirts. I've seen your leather pants. I would do that face. Yeah. The leather pants I still have. I'm gonna get back to them. It's a good time. They never worked for me. They worked.

Not really. You did them on a special, didn't you? No, on Conan once. Okay, I remember. I never wore the leather pants on a special. What was that special you did where you smelled Morrison's boot just to smell the magic or something?

Remember that one? It was like a hard rock or something? Oh yeah. Yeah, you just smelled the boot just to smell the magic. I remember that joke. It was on a special? Yeah, I think it was a hard rock that you went into and then you said, I grabbed the boot.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know if I did that on a special, but I did that first special at the Fillmore in 95, the half hour, but that was just black jeans, black shirt. I think I didn't even wear the Calvary. I think you improv something up top. That was a big deal to us. Oh yeah, yeah, about the- We were just improv up top.

About the venue. Yeah, she just went off, dude, on a special. On a special. I know, that dumbest thing I ever did. Anyway, half that special was, I was just like, obviously, like, I'm not gonna prepare, man. I'm glad somebody appreciated the completely irresponsible punk rock nature of whatever

the fuck I was doing. Because I didn't see it as punk rock. I was just sort of like, I gotta be in it, man. No, I loved all that shit. It was great. But so, wait, so your whole family was boozy? Boozy, well my dad had a bar. Oh. In the Chaffin downtown lounge. Oh, so he had

a professional place to drink. Oh yeah. And it was basically a biker bar. It was like all the spider gang or whatever those gangs were there. But we were always there. I mean, we'd be playing pinball, kiss pinball machine, and then just all this biker activities. Yeah, yeah. We sat at a bar, you know, isn't anywhere there's more than one biker considered biker activity. There's two of them. Something's going on. They're playing cards. I don't know. It's getting rowdy. Something's going to go bad here. Oh, here comes another guy with another jacket. That's going to end badly. Guy with a different jacket doesn't have a shot in this situation. I'd just be drinking Shirley Temples at the bar next to some dude that's probably facing manslaughter.

Yeah, sure. Or on the run from something. Oh, yeah. But it turned into a strip club because the old lady just decided to just take her top off one night. Oh, really? Your mom? Yeah. Is that what you're talking about? No, not one night. Oh, yeah, your mom. Yeah There you talking no no, they call you know the biker they call oh, yeah sure. Okay. Okay, okay? Yeah

Yeah, I mean, but she yeah, so then it just became a strip club They might they would get biker chicks would take their shirts off every oh, I know But they don't try to do like legit stripper club. Okay, how'd that go? It did okay. Mom shut it down after about a year. When she found out about it? Yeah, they were kind of hiding it from her, I think. Yeah, yeah. It was kind of like what happens

at the Chaffin Downtown Lounge. So, but I imagine that, you know, the behavior once it became a strip club biker bar that your dad was getting into some pretty messy shit. Oh, yeah, yeah. There's guns, a lot of guns at the house. Is he still dad was getting into some pretty messy shit. Oh, yeah This is guns. I don't know the house now. He died a couple years ago. Yeah, sorry. Yeah guns, you know guns are around I mean I grew up in New Mexico. Yeah, everyone's got a fucking gun Yeah, but like it's let me know on the table like like this knife is like a handgun would just be right there Just I mean, I think that's legal now. Yeah, I would pick one

I remember I picked one up and just started running around the house and there was a whole thing. Yeah, oh yeah, you got in a little trouble? Little bit, a lot of trouble. Pulled a gun on my dad once. You did? Yeah. With intent? Yeah, he was smacking my mom.

I'm drunk. Jesus Christ. So, and how'd that go? How'd that end up with you pulling a gun? He stopped. And did that go? How did that end up with you pulling a gun? He stopped. Yeah. And did that stick though? I think so. Yeah, it freaked him out. How old were you?

12 maybe. Ah. It's that age where you can know what's going on. Yeah. So you're- That anger started to sink in a little bit. And I think your mom probably was like, you were probably your favorite after that, huh?

Oh yeah. Yeah, you believe. Is she still around? Yeah, she is. What does she do? She's a comic, no, she's assistant living. Oh yeah? She's kind of, she's all right.

Yeah, got her head? Yeah, that she does have, her legs not so much. Oh, well that's good. She's a hard time walking, but she's, you know, she's got her wits, she's funny. Oh, that's great. Yeah. So that sounds pretty dramatic, dude.

So when did you finally get out of the family situation? I think, well, I met a Mormon girl in high school. Well, that'll straighten you out. Yeah. Yeah. For a little while. Good for you. Your life preserver came out of nowhere.

Pretty much. Because it's like the opposite world. Yeah, so it's like What it's its own world. Yeah. Yeah, but yeah, no, I mean I I you know Just going to somebody's house and cops not being called and like people eating dinner and like talking to each other Like that was new to me. No one's hitting your mom. Yeah Put my gun away, you know Yeah, I don't have to pull a gun out. I can put my gun away, you know? I don't have to be like Mad Max, you know?

But they want you in? Did you get? Yeah, I got in, man. I went in hard. Oh, you did? Oh, yeah. It was like a full secret underpants and everything? Oh, yeah, everything.

Like, well, I was with her, you know, this cute little blonde from Utah. That's how they get you. Yeah. They send him out. Oh, yeah. This guy's prime. This guy's a mark. Look at him. He's all lost and angry

Doesn't like being at home. We'll take him cowboy hat. Let's get him. Yeah, it's She we broke up. Yeah, and then I think to get her back I was like I wanted to be a missionary so I went all in with that kind of think I knew this about you a little Yeah, and I think it was part of your backstory a little bit. Once you got out of it. Yeah. So, okay, so what'd you go to Utah?

Well, I went to the Provo Missionary Training Center. Okay, so wait, so you meet the girl. Meet the girl. She's not gonna fuck you. We did, she felt bad, and that's why she broke up with me. Because I made her a sinner, so she had nothing to do with me. So this is at the beginning I made her a sinner. So she had nothing to do with me. So this is at the beginning?

The beginning, yeah. I wasn't supposed to go on a mission. They let me go anyway. Wait, so wait, so you lock in with this girl. Yeah. You don't have sex for a while. We don't, but then we do. But right, but at that point,

you already decided to do it? No, no, no, this is after. We broke up, then I decided to do it. And then she lost her shit, spiraled. Now she's gotta go back to the church and get clean somehow. Yeah, then I decided to do it. And then she lost her shit, spiraled. Now she's gotta go back to the church and get clean somehow. Yeah. Then I got focused and said, I'll show you.

I'll be super Mormon. To get her back. Kinda, probably. I don't know. You're just young and stupid. So you got a provost. Yeah. Okay.

So I got to get baptized first, so that happened. I wasn't Mormon yet. So you got to get baptized in the Mormon faith. So we broke up, I got baptized, I became a Mormon. I wasn't Mormon yet. So you got to get baptized in the Mormon faith. So we broke up. I got baptized. I became a Mormon. I did the whole thing. Then I went to Provo, Utah, Missionary Training Center.

They teach you how to manipulate people, baptize people, all that stuff, and Spanish, because I went to Santiago, Chile. None of this helped your stand-up? I would think just the manipulating people thing would be an applicable skill. Well I'm here. That's true. That's true. He kept pushing like out of nowhere.

Hey, remember we were friends kinda. I'm like, yeah, I'll see what I can do. And then again, hey, what's up? I knew better. I knew if I didn't hit you twice, I was gonna get lost under Nick Kroll's cousin or something. So yeah, so yeah, so I did that and I went to... Well wait, what did they teach you? Just how to talk to people in public.

Okay, well that's helpful. How to knock on a door and be like, hey... Annoying? Yeah, pretty much. To wear the suit? Yeah, to wear the suit, the name tag. Got the name tag? Bicycle.

Bicycle? Yeah. Here's a crazy story. Okay. So I do this thing, right? And I'm stateside waiting to go to Chile and I get sick and I have a prostate problem. This is all real. And I go to the doctor and the doctor's like, okay, the only way you're going to get rid

of this prostate problem is if you masturbate. And so, but mysteries aren't allowed to masturbate. But you're not drinking coffee. No, we can't do anything. I know. Yeah, but we can't, we can't. That irritates the prostate sometimes. Oh, does it?

The coffee, no, no coffee. So you were actually getting a prostate problem because of your commitment to Mormonism, you weren't jerking off enough. Because I wasn't jerking off, pretty much, yeah. If you stop jerking off after you, I think it creates a thing. I mean, that's, I'm hoping.

Especially if you're used to doing it like every day. It's almost like an addiction. Yeah, and then you just stop. You're gonna get withdrawal, get backed up. Yeah. Yeah, so. I mean, that's- Especially if you're used to doing it like every day. It's almost like an addiction. Yeah, then you just stop. You're gonna get withdrawal, get backed up. Yeah. So, yeah. So, I go to the doctor and then, but missionary, we have a vow of celibacy,

so we're not supposed to do any of that. Yeah. And so I go to the missionary president and they have- Showing the prescription? But that's not enough. They send it to Salt Lake. Like the equivalent of the Pope. The elders had a fucking...

The elders quorum. Yeah, in Salt Lake Temple. And so they prey on it. Oh, wow. It's a whole like three days. Yeah, you were the business for a couple of days. What are we gonna do with this guy that needs to jerk off? They asked their nine wives, we gotta give him three women. Yeah, and so that comes back and then they say that I can do it. It becomes a thing.

And so, but 5,000 missionaries. Was it a written permission kind of thing? Pretty much. Wow. So out of 5,000 missionaries, I'm the only one that can like jerk off. You're like a hero. I am. Well, I'm like a Judas to most of them. Oh really?

Cause they were like this freaking guy. Yeah, yeah. Oh wow. So that I'm like a Judas to most of them. Oh really? Because they were like this freaking guy. Yeah, yeah. Oh wow. So that was part of my story. Repressed hate. They're like, what's this doctor's name? It's like guys going to get heroin from guys who give out prescriptions.

Yeah. Sorry, doctor's orders, man. Yeah, what's the name of the doctor? Yeah. I'm not feeling good either. All of a sudden everybody's got a prostate problem. Yeah, yeah. The guy that broke the Mormon church with the jerk-off scripts.

I broke it. So you're jerking off, you're feeling better. I'm feeling better. Then I gotta stop. I start to feel bad after a while. I'm jerking off? It gets better. I guess it passes if you will.

Okay, okay. So then you locked back in. I locked back in. And you're going door to door with the Watchtower magazine. No, that's the Jehovah's. Oh, that's the Jehovah's. So I'm in Chile. I'm in, you know, Santiago. Yeah.

And then I end up in Robben's Caruso Island, which is like... That's a real place? Yeah. Well, it's easily Juan Fernandez. It's an island. Basically, it's like 250 miles off the coast of Chile. Wow. And so I was there with like 200 people. With 200 people who live there. Who live there, yeah. And you're the only Mormon Chile. Wow. And so I was there with like 200 people. With 200 people who live there. Who live there, yeah.

And you're the only Mormon in a suit. Yeah, there's two of us, two Mormons. You always have to have a companion. So it's two of us and then. Wow, and that was the job? You had 200, it seems like at least a finite number. You'll know when you're done. Well, everybody's Catholic, it's Chile.

Yeah, no, I get it. So there was like four, probably five Mormons on the whole thing. What, that you got, or they were there? I never got anybody there. Did you ever get anybody anywhere? Yeah, I did. I got like 12.

Yeah, they still in? Which is a big deal. I think a couple of them, yeah. Yeah? Yeah. All right, so you- I'm not, but they are. I know, so you get back from Chile.

How long were you there for? Two years. Holy shit, dude. So like a whole other world in life Yeah, so you come back and I see they meet you at the airport with signs. Yay They didn't oh cuz I when I got a Mormons, huh? Whoa, but you're in the game. Yeah, but my mom doesn't care No, you know, I don't they every time I go to Salt Lake, there's some sort of, you know, wrong dress reception line. Well, that's what I was hoping for. It didn't happen. My mom like showed up late.

It was like really, it's gonna say. Your mom's Mormon too? No, no, no, no, no, not at all. They just kind of went with this whole thing. They're like, he's not at the bar. Yeah, at least he's not. And you're not drinking or nothing? Nothing.

So what happens with the woman? I think she married a return missionary dude and she has kids and stuff. Oh really? Yeah. So when do you lose your faith? Were you brought up Christian? Yeah, kinda.

But not heavy? Well my parents would go back and forth. It was like they would get sober and then, you know. Or my dad, when my dad would be broke, he would find God. You know, that was, I could always tell about how much money we had, how many times. Well, he had them, but he just reintroduced himself. Yeah.

Yes. Yeah. But... That's a popular thing in the Christian prayer. Hey, you remember me? I'm back. Yeah, I mean, we had to burn our Kiss albums. Like, I mean...

No, you went that hard? Oh yeah, there was a church parking lot, I remember, we had to burn our Kiss albums. No, you went that hard? Oh, yeah. There was a church parking lot. I remember just like throwing our... Come on, that was the church? What was it, Baptist? Pentecostal? Something like that. Pentecostally, I think. They were there speaking tongues, all that shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that's what it is. Sure, that's Pentecostal. I think it's Baptist, right? And then we were allowed to... Stryper was the only band we could listen to.

Stryper. Yeah, remember that band? I do, kind of to... Striper was the only band we could listen to. Striper. Yeah. Remember that band? I do, kind of. Were they Christian? Christian rock band. That's the one problem I have with the idea...

Well, that's not true. There's many problems. But it's like the one problem I have with the idea of a Christian nation, just how bad everything's gonna be. Oh, yeah. Like Christian jazz, Christian rock, Christian movies, Christian poetry, Christian novels. It's like, just like take the fucking menace out of everything and make it just... Oh yeah. All the Christian actors are terrible.

Oh, it's just... Cavizio used to be good. What was it? The guy who played Jesus in Mel's movie. Oh, that guy. Mel's pretty good too, but they're crazy Catholics. Yeah, that's a different energy though. Totally. That's not like that Bible Belt energy.

No, it's not like, that's one of Nate's best bits, the varieties of Christian just based on his family's commitment and his siblings. It's great. And I told him that, I said, like, you know, no one has ever talked about it like that. Because there is, for most people, you know, if you're Jewish, you got a thing, you know, if you're, you know, a Jewish, you got a thing. If you're Muslim, you got a thing. But Christians are just Christians. And to explore the varieties of kind of born again Christians, their commitment at the beginning and watching it diminish with each kid, it's very funny.

Oh yeah, absolutely. So anyway, I texted him and he didn't text me back. Am I in the outs? Am I bad? Is it my... He's making a movie right now. Okay, I'll let him off the hook. He's like, yeah, he's gonna be the next Steve Martin.

He's doing that thing. Well, we'll see, you know, he's gotta be able to act it. I mean, I think he probably can. Another thing. If they write it right for him. I feel like now he's at a point, they're gonna do it. They know what to do with him and his delivery. I think so, yeah, yeah, yeah.

With his SNL stuff, like they know where his strengths are. Yeah, that's good. Yeah. That's important for him. Yeah, like with you, it stuff like they know where his strengths are. Yeah, that's good. Yeah, that's that's important for him Yeah, like with you. It's like you they you know, they still don't know what to do Mark in those. Yeah, I'm glad he yeah, he figured it out and we can have him over But alright so so how does the Mormon thing end Finding comedy. Oh But, all right, so how does the Mormon thing end? Finding comedy. Oh, really?

So you're in- So I came to New York. But did you- I'm in art school. Were you living in Utah? No, I was, well, I went to BYU, Idaho, which is like a- Wow, these are the worst places. Oh, yeah, at Rexburg, Idaho is where I was.

Brigham Young University in Idaho. I know they had a franchise. Yeah, they do have a franchise. In Idaho. It was called Rick's College before. It was like, it was, it's like a Mormon, it's like a Mormon community college. It's for people that can't get into BYU.

Wow. And then you go from there and you get into BYU. But I ended up- But you were still, you're believing, you're wearing underwear, you're doing the whole thing. I mean, I was starting to slip a little. There were some moments with girls and stuff. Oh, okay.

That was always the vice. And then what is the process of sinning and redemption on a day-to-day basis with Mormon-ness? Okay, so you do something, you jerk off, you fuck, and then the next day you're like, what I do, then what happens? It's a big deal. It's like a court thing.

You gotta come in. You gotta own it in front of other people what happens? It's a big deal. It's like a court thing. You gotta come in. You gotta own it in front of other people? Yeah, it's a whole thing. It's not like Catholics where you can just be anonymous and just go in and be like, hey, I messed up. Or Christians, you can just do it at home. Yeah, or a hotel. But this is, yeah, so it's like a whole thing.

A hotel, that's where it happens. A lot of prayers in hotel rooms. So there's the Bible in there. Huh? You gotta write that joke. That's where the sin happens. Right? Boom. That is funny. I'm gonna write that down. And if it's a Marriott, it's a Book of Mormon. Yeah.

Do you know that? They own all the Marriott's. Sure. Yeah. You're writing it down? Yeah, sure. All right. It's a workshop. No, I think it's a good, it's a great premise why they have them in there.

Cause that's where all the bad shit happens. Yeah. That's where all the bad decisions happen. Oh yeah, it's so true. Yeah, okay. So, but do you remember the day where you lost your faith or is it a process? Well, you know, New York was a pretty cool place to be Mormon.

Oh, so you moved there as a Mormon to do common? Yeah, I went to go to school. No, not common. At Parsons. School Parsons. As a Mormon. So you're still a Mormon? So as a Mormon, Parsons. You had Mormon guys there?

No, but the church in Manhattan was like all the Juilliard people, so it was like interesting, you know, group of people. And the church will let you go. You Juilliard people so it was like interesting You know and the church let you go you had to ask what to let go to go to New York. No, no Okay, no, I mean I transferred out of BYU, Idaho to go to Parsons All right, so I'm there and I'm in you know, I'm a Mormon in Manhattan Okay, and it's all like, you know, basically kids and haven't come out yet. Yeah. It's basically what it is. Yes. It's like all these like song and dance people that are coming to you. And in Utah, they're like, yeah, he's just like... He's part of the choir.

He doesn't, yeah. It's just focused, you know. But yeah, so all that was happening. But I enjoyed it. It was cool. And then it just comedy was like, you know, the dirtbags in comedy. Yeah. And just in school.

That's one of them. I know. Yeah. Well, then the Amsterdam chicks and like, you know, the dirtbags in comedy. And then in school too. As one of them, I know. Well then the Amsterdam chicks and like, you know. What about Amsterdam? Well there was like girls from Amsterdam, like my first year of college. At Parsons? Yeah, and I think that's probably what this-

What did it? This girl from Amsterdam, yeah. She did. She was a Dutch girl, whatever. She was, yeah, she did it. It was done. I was like, yeah, I'm- I'm giving it up for the Dutch girl.

I mean, come on, we've all been there. You were kind of there. Yeah, for a while. So yeah. I didn't wear the hat though. Yeah. With the Dutch girl, the hat. Yeah, with leather pants though.

Oh yeah, I did try that. Cowboy shirts. That was me. Cowboy shirts were always me. Yeah, that's the word. I don't know that I, have I dressed, have I let girls really dress me? I guess Mishina had a little input

because she was an ex-model and she knew. Yeah. But like, no, I mean, I wear five things, dude. I finally leveled off. I hired a- Yeah, level off, yeah. I hired a stylist just recently because I have stuff going up, TV stuff,

and I always end up wearing the same shirt to the point where people are like, doesn't he have another shirt? So I know I'm on TV with the same fucking pants over and over again Yeah, so so I just bought a bunch of clothes I thought like well, these aren't really my style and then you put them on you're like, oh, there's a lot I don't know. I look pretty fucking good in this shit. Yeah. Yeah. It's gonna have somebody dress So the Dutch girl, how long does that last? Just I don don't know, six months. But you start doing comedy then? Yeah, I always started, all that started happening

about the same time. Okay. And then New York Comedy Club, all that stuff. Actually, I met you, I think I started kind of experimenting. I think I'd never smoked weed really. Yeah. I smoked it with you first time. Really?

Yeah. Okay. You're welcome. At Gotham. You're welcome. Yeah. Out in front of Gotham. Yeah, and I was, yeah, I remember, because the beginning we would, yeah, we'd kind of

hang out a little bit. You were there all the time. Yeah. And so, yeah, I think you'd take me over to like the cellar or something. I'd be too paranoid to talk to people. I remember you yelling at me once. You're like, dude, you gotta talk to people. And I'm like, I don't know.

My girlfriend was there at the time. You're like, is it your girlfriend? Because your girlfriend's here? Is she bringing you down? She's making you clam up? And I'm just, my girlfriend was there at the time. You're like, is it your girlfriend? Because your girlfriend's here. Is she bringing you down? She's making you clam up and I'm like, ah! I was at the cellar just looking around, just trying to get accepted and you're just like yelling at me. It was amazing. I love it. It's like, you're all jacked up and you're just coming at me. I love it. I'm probably still on blow.

Oh yeah, absolutely. I did a bump with you once. Yeah, sure. Yeah, it was a good time. Yeah, well, I'm glad I was there to help. I've tried to help a lot of people. Well, I also got sober with you a little bit. Like, you helped me with that. So it's like a fun, like, went there and then went there. So it's a full experience with you. That's right. Because I was definitely in and out of sobriety. When I was there, what year are we talking now?

To maybe around 2000. Yeah, so that was probably- Early 2000. Okay, so that was probably, right, so that was like, that's when I really got sober. So you missed the in and out thing with me, but I got sober for the last time in 99. Okay. And then, you know, then some Mishno was around.

Yeah. And I was, what, I tried taking to meetings and shit? Yeah, yeah, yeah, we went to meetings. Yeah, I remember. Together and stuff, coming out yeah, yeah, we went to meetings. Yeah, I remember. Together and stuff, coming out after, that's why I would go to her shows. Miesha was probably more involved with that than I was, I bet.

Oh, with me or? Well, yeah, in the sense of like, he needs help, let's take him to the thing, let's see the thing. Yeah, yeah. Because you guys were sort of the same generation. A little bit, yeah. And then Geraldo ended up kind of sponsoring me really. Yeah Wow, so did he relapse as your sponsor? Yeah

He was we both kind of relapsed. Uh-huh together That's some graduate level shit there. I mean doing drugs with Geraldo. Oh, yeah. Well, he would always like yeah Okay, man, let's go to Lake house and we'll do like we'll the right for three days Yeah, we'll just get to be you know, like he it was great. He would always like, yeah, he'd be like, hey man, let's just go to the lake house and we'll just like, we'll just write for three days and we'll just get to there, you know? Like he, it was great. He would, yeah, it was so, you just wanna be a part of it. No, he's great. I really did- I miss that guy, man.

Yeah, he was great. So- And, you know, I had no idea how deep in he was with the drugs. I'm not naive, but like some guys, you know, I didn't hang out with him enough But like he had a real battle with the fucking drugs and I just had no idea We just wasn't it wasn't happy at all. Like his wife they didn't like each other. Like it was just the whole thing man Yeah, but he was a drug addict. Oh, yeah, but like I just like, you know, I remember talking to him

He said one of the greatest things You know, like he helped me frame when I was getting divorced. Yeah But I just like, I remember talking to him, he said one of the greatest things, he helped me frame when I was getting divorced. Cause I'd gone back and I was working through his divorce and I was paying the woman off cause I took that second job at Air America so I could pay her off. And I was like complaining about it. And I told him like, she got me sober,

but it was costing me like like, you know, hundreds, a couple hundred grand to all in with the divorce. He goes, well, you know, that's what I spent on three rehabs. I'm like, okay, I'll frame it like that. I'm sober and that's what it cost me. Yeah. That's a good way to frame it. Yeah, he was a great, brilliant guy.

So funny. It was, I mean, to me, it was always you, him and Stan Hope. Those were, you guys were my three. You guys are my three, man. Thank you. How's, how's, how's, how's, how's, how's, how's, how's, how's, how's, how's, me, Geraldo, and Stan Hope. Those banged up dudes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've never met in my life. You got no choice but to cut your own path with that bunch of heroes. You gotta go get yourself a ranch. I think I relapsed watching Stan Hope once because it was like so electric that early, like an early drunk show. Sure. And it was like so electric, that early, like an early drunk show.

Sure. And it was like, oh, it's phenomenal watching him just kind of pool and find it. Oh yeah. It's so great. I still love him. I think he's just fantastic. Yeah, he's a great guy.

And I haven't talked to him in a while, but he checks in occasionally. I like that he had to eventually tell the bartenders not to make it real booze because they kept sending him, the audience kept sending him booze and he's like, I can't do it. How's he doing?

I think he's good, he's touring now. Yeah, he's out there. I'm not real close with him, but he's touring, yeah. Oh, I should check in with him. Yeah. So how does it go in New York? Because you're fucking really kind of hitting it, and you're, but you don't stay sober,

so how fucked up are you? It's bad, you know? It's like, cause I think my mom sent me some, my mom used to work for a doctor and stuff. Like she, she always had access to like prescription drugs. So she'd, we'd always like, I would just get, you know, some sort of antidepressant or something that wasn't prescribed by anybody.

It just was sent to me by my mom and then I would drink whiskey on it. It's so there's some pretty bad moments moments just out ex-fexor. I think was uh-huh. I've got drunk on that Yeah, it got her problem, but but you had mental problems. Yeah, I had a really bad ex I think you met her she was terrible man. Just an awful remember her right here. Oh, yeah Yeah, it was rough. She was around that time. Wait, she work at the cellar? She didn't work there. She didn't work at the cellar.

I'm trying to remember her. But so what happened? How do you hit the wall? Just kinda suicide, I think. I was like trying to do, trying to, you know, sleeping pills and whatever, and ended up in St. Vincent's, in the ER, pumped my stomach, all that stuff. Really? Yeah, it was rough. And then ended up in St. Vincent's in the ER, pumped my stomach, all that stuff.

Yeah, it was rough. And then ended up in a psych ward. And next thing you know, I woke up and I'm in this psych ward, man. What? In Manhattan, yeah. So you had the girl, you're trying to manage your mental problems, you were on,

what kind of drugs were you on? Everything, but whatever anybody gave me. Oh really? It was kind of one of those things where the bag it in was like a fun, it is like you pull the gates down Yeah, what do you who's there? Yeah, what dealers there? Yeah, what's in somebody's pocket? That's what I did I never seek doubt to mommy sometimes that by blow, but it wasn't like yeah something You know, we didn't get involved with does always around though. Yeah, no needles. No, no that's not neck heroin

No, no, I didn't do that little not. Snorting that heroin? No. No you didn't do that? Smoked a little crack. Oh yeah. Sure, whatever. That's fine. Kept it upbeat. Kept it 90s.

I'm a retro guy. How about vinyl? Well I'm an up guy, I'm not a down guy. Except with these zins. A lot of people say they give them energy. Me, they just knock me down. The zins knock me down. You have a natural intensity.

Exactly, they kind of counter that to the point where by four o'clock I need to fucking nap because I'm nauseous, but uh and we're not 20. That's true That's true. So you end up in a psych ward. How long were you in there for two weeks? What'd you learn? First meeting first a meeting was in there. I remember they there used to be a regular meeting in St. Vincent's. Yeah. Like downstairs, right? That's where I was. Yeah. Yeah, cause you'd go to that meeting

and there'd just be guys in hospital gowns. You'd be like. Well, that's what I said. It's like, it's one thing to be like around crazy people on the subway. It's one thing to be around crazy people with an open gown. Like.

It's like. It's like. It's like. That's a whole nother vulnerability, man. Sure, and they're in the room next to you. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I remember that meeting.

That was a good part of early sobriety is like, you know, let's go to the meeting where these guys don't even know what you're talking about. Oh, yeah. And they're like, some of them are just, they're barely dry. Well, yeah, because we like, yeah, I just stabbed a guy in the neck or whatever. And then he'd get to me and I'd be like, I'm mad at my dad. Yeah, yeah, because we like yeah, I just stabbed a guy in the neck. Yeah, you get to me and I'd be like I'm mad at my dad So then I learned like to get out of the psych ward you got to do all the stuff you got to go to the meetings Yeah, you got it. You got to check in with the guys that were like I ain't doing any of this

Yeah, where the guys that stayed there. So I learned early. Or frequent visitors. Yeah. But I learned if you wanted to get out, you had to just whatever they were, whatever activity, whatever. Because it was a court order kind of thing? Because you tried to off yourself?

Yeah, they have to do it, I think. So it was kind of one of those things. Do you think you meant to kill yourself? You wanted to? I think so. I think I was kind of done. Done with the girl, done with life, done with comedy. I don't know, you had this.

Just in a bad place. Couldn't speak up. Yeah, my dad and I, we had a rough patch. I know that feeling though. Like if you're like a guy that wants to please people by wearing hats and whatnot. The... It's stupid.

The hell is my idea, man. Chicks dug it. You've never seen me with an unattractive woman because they love it. They're all into like, they want that character, man. Okay, okay. I understand the reason that you've moved through life and then you got a bad one and that sent you over the edge. I'm just saying that, because I deal with myself, is that if you have someone that you want, that you're infatuated with or in love with or whatever you think, or you're involved with even,

it becomes hard to say, like, I want out to them. So you can just do it like a regular person and take the hit. It's either sort of like, I want out, I'm gonna end me. Because I don't want it. Well, it's just like, you don't, it's hard, you think you're gonna hurt somebody, you're thinking you're afraid of confrontation,

who the hell knows? Yeah, I think my dad had a lot to do with it too. We were having some like shady, like he had me take over his business and like- In Texas? Yeah. So you went back to Texas? He had, I didn't go back, but he had a divorce

and she was trying to take all his money and his company. And so we had to- You didn't put your name on shit? Yep, we had the same middle name. And so it was like all that shit. Did you lose money because of that? I did. And he was like the IRS, it was a bunch of old money on it.

It was like a shady, like, why would you put your son through that? Bad enough what you did with my mom and you're gonna do that. And they stayed together? No. Oh, okay. No, she married a doctor. That's all I was saying.

Oh, right, right, right. So she got out of that. The one that she stole the medicine from. Give me drugs. So, all right, so you get out of the psych ward, you're in AA. Yeah, I think it starts to grow. What year was that?

Well, this, it didn't, it didn't take, the AA didn't take in the psych ward. I just wanted to be out. Yeah, yeah, I get it. It took later. When I met you, it took, but it was, yeah. 2001, 2002. That's about the time it started to take, I relapsed be out. Yeah, yeah, I get it. It took later. When I met you, it took, but it was, yeah. 2001, 2002? That's about the time it started to take,

I relapsed after that. Sure. But eventually it took 17 years. Yeah, well that's great. But what's the process? When do you start earning the money as a comic? What were you out there headlining? I always ran clubs, that was part of it,

and then I started kinda getting out there a little bit. Yeah. You know, that was part of it. And then I started kind of getting out there a little bit. Yeah. Just started making money and, you know. Getting by. Yeah, getting by. Were you doing other jobs? No. No?

It was always calm. I either ran a club or I was on the road. Right. It wasn't like, I never, you know, I wasn't like, didn't put a name tag on or anything. But I mean, what, but even in, in stayed sober somehow. Yeah. Yeah. But like what, were, what, were you ever like,

sort of, you know, I gotta get something going. I'm still, man, trying to get something going. I'm doing this. I'm just hoping this is it. You're my Dick Cavett, let's go. No, but comedy is always that, man. It's like, I don't know. It's like now I'm at a place where I'm working with Nate,

I'm doing cruises, you know, whatever, man. Hold on back up. So, all right, so you're out there, you're running clubs, you're making ends meet, you're still living in New York. Sure. But you weren't clean. No.

As a comic. Not at all. No, not at all. You know, and you had the jokes and the twitch and the thing. Yeah, it's a comic. Not at all. No, not at all. You know, and you had the jokes and the twitch and the thing. Yeah, it's like they had that hotel thing going. Yeah, yeah. Jokes, yeah. We were all raised by a hotel.

Yeah, yeah. There's a whole generation of hotels. And then, so, at what point, like, when do you start doing boats? That's post-Nate, right? Well, that's happening now, yeah. After Nate. So, okay, so you're, you know, but you and Nate are pals

because you ran that room together. You met Nate in New York. I took a chance on him. You put him on stage. I put him on stage when he wasn't quite ready. Yeah. And he had to work through it. And it was... So you were one of the only ones giving him stage time at the beginning. I was like the first guy. The first real

guy that knew all you guys. Right. And so that's how it was. He was able to get stage time and then meet everybody. Which is part of the thing. If you're not meeting the right guys. How long had he been in New York? Just fresh, I mean, right there.

And then he lived with me. So that's what I say, I gave him stage time and I gave him a place to live. Oh, you and Aronavich too. Yeah, yeah. I was like the movie Blindside. That's what I say, I gave him stage time and I gave him a place to live. Oh, you and Aronovich too? Yeah, yeah. I was like that movie Blind Side. That's what I say, I'm Nate Sanderbollack. Interesting, because I just talked to Aronovich.

Oh, you did? Mm-hmm. Okay. Do you guys do this? Mm-hmm. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. Yeah, because like oddly, he was talking about you, yeah. Oh yeah. He wanted to do this. Because I helped him get sober. Yeah. Yeah, and- Yeah was talking about you, yeah. Oh yeah. He wanted to do this. Cause I helped him get sober.

Yeah. Yeah, and- Yeah, both of us. Yeah, and you know, and it was weird because there was one time where I'm like, I gotta, like, and I don't get this cause I'm barely, I'm not that active in meetings and stuff anymore, but I'm pretty sober.

And I talked to sober people, but like, I was kind of spinning and I'm like, all right, I'm gonna try and call, I'm just gonna call Rich and do straight program call. Oh, wow. Yeah. And he did it. That's great. Yeah.

And then he's on the podcast. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Whatever works, man. That's for sure. No, I always liked that guy, you know?

No, he's funny, man. He's like a, he's, you know, it's like a works, man. That's for sure. No, I always liked that guy. He's funny, man. He's like a trained performance guy. But he's a good guy. He's a good hearted guy. He's a Jew like me and we're nuts in a certain way. But you guys, you got kids now, right? No. Oh, well that's good.

Yeah. So, but he's... Two dogs, man. I'm a dog guy. a dog for you good for you. Yeah, I win But you know Rich has got kids in a mic. How's that going? Yeah, right, but he loves him and he's a good dad He loves him. Of course. He's a good dad. It's not easy. It's not hard to be a good dad I think these days I guess yeah, but you know, there's a lot of shitty dads out there still Yeah, of course. It's happening. You know half the country's Republican. You think that's because of good parenting? They think they're good parents.

They think they're making all the moves for their kids. But what about their parents? Oh, they're bad. Yeah, they're not good. Nate's just one of the good ones. Cause he's got that Jesus going. So that's interesting. So you, cause Nate's a loyal guy.

I had to earn it. I had to,, I had to, I had to earn it. I had to, but I'm just saying I had to figure it out. But he, right. But he knew your position in his life. He knew that you were the guy that got him on stage. Yeah. But I was also, you know, I was working, I was getting stuff going.

And I think he, you know, and I told him, and I had to convince him, you know. I had to be like- So wait, wait, so this is like, so when I saw him in Michigan, he hadn't broke yet. And then all of a sudden, you know, Fallon took him and it just, it all happened fairly quickly. And, you know, and he, but he's always been that guy.

Yeah. Nate, clean, I mean, comedy wise. Well, he has a lot, like he has all those legions, skanks guys, like they're all his buddies and whatever. From New York. Yeah. But he has a lot, like he has all those legions, skanks guys, like they're all his buddies and whatever. From New York. Yeah. But he was always clean, right? Yeah, but those guys didn't do the work

to figure it out with him. So it's like he always had problems with some of those guys because it's like they couldn't, they couldn't quite be clean. And so I just figured it out. Yeah. And it was tough and it's not easy because I'm still dark.

No, but I just mean for him, for Nate, like, you know, his success, you know, he had it coming and he earned it, but it's just interesting that he was always clean. Yeah. Even back in New York, he was not. No, even like a late show at Boston, he would be clean. That's the amazing thing about,

that's why like I didn't notice him till Michigan, because when you operate at that pace and you don't have a second gear, you gotta wait and hope it works. Cause you're not, there's no, you can't make any adjustments to that, right? You just gotta wait till they come around. Todd was the same way.

There are guys that operated a certain. But he found his gear, which is crowd work. Right, but he also found his gear in doing standup. Cause when we started, it was hard to get laughs. Jeff Liffschultz, Jeff Ross the same way. Is you start out in a certain zone and if you lock into it because that's who you are, then you hope for the best and that happened with Nate.

So when Nate starts breaking, and how do you get locked in with him after all those years? Just kind of reached out. I knew he was doing those around COVID and he was doing some, starting to do some shows again. And I just asked and he said, hey man, I'm working on a cleaner set.

Just did a audition with AGT. I'm trying to do all this stuff. And I said, I can pull it off. And we did, I think our first thing together was Off the Hook, the comedy club in Naples, Florida. And yeah, I did all right. I was clean-ish. So he wasn't a big act yet, but he was headlining.

He was about to be. I think Tennessee Kid was pretty popular, that Netflix special. And so he was starting to get kind of, and then I think his podcast started to kind of reach people between that and Tennessee Kid. It just started to come up and then, yeah. And then he just-

So he just had you open for him? Yeah, at that point it was just me. You know, 25 minutes or whatever. And then it became more comics and became a bigger family. So like a caravan of clowns. We like to call it an entourage, Mark. Okay, sorry. Or a festival. Big caravan of clean clowns running around in a bus.

Yeah, a jet. Let's just keep that straight. Yeah, a jet full of non-partying clowns. I don't care. It's all right. I'll take it. Oh no, it's good. It's a good time. So it's you and Julian and-

Yeah, a couple guys, a couple different, it's probably like eight guys. That do it? And we rotate out, we rotate out. Okay, so how many people are on an arena show? Probably like Julian's usually the MC. Julian, yeah, McCullough MCs, and then three, and then Nate.

Nate, yeah, and that's the show. It's like 50 up top and then he does the rest. Okay. Yeah He doesn't like 50 more Yeah, he does an hour. Yeah, he's working on a new one. So it's yeah, it's an hour. Yeah And he's one of the few guys left. I mean you're like that. There's certain guys that are purist, you know Keep doing the hours you do the hour. Yeah. Yeah, I got one coming out in August for HBO. Nice. Yeah, sorry. It's good Yeah, I'm happy with it. It looks great.

I'm excited. Thank you. I think you'll like it. But it enabled you to sort of, I imagine the responsibility of it is real, to do those shows and to figure out how to do them and to do them clean. I mean, to do 18,000 people,

I don't care who it's with, to be able to do that is pretty great. And to do 18,000 people, you know, is I don't care who it's with, to be able to do that is, you know, pretty great. And to feel that, I mean, that's like Aerosmith. I mean, comics aren't supposed to do that. And so to be a part of that is pretty amazing. Yeah, no, I bet you it's great. And then it's like, we get to be a part of the hour, we get to add and tag and write and talk to him.

And, you know, he's our buddy, but at the same time we all get to like, you know, hash it out. Oh, you got workshop shit? Yeah, we. And, you know, he's our buddy, but at the same time we all get to like, you know, hash it out. Oh, you got workshop shit? Yeah, we're always, you know, it's always that. So I enjoy those moments. Where he's trying to work out a bit. Yeah, we're all like, we're all in this together.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's like he takes it from us and like we'll rework a bit and whatever. So it's great. Oh, that's great. One time he let me do his set list. Like I rearranged everything and so it's stuff like that. Yeah, yeah. Did it work?

Almost. He had to tell a story. I think it didn't work. And he had to tell a story that he told before. It was like a whole thing. But he did it wrong. He missed one of my marks. So then he had to tell a story.

But it worked for the most part. But whatever. I mean, he's cool like that. It's like, whatever. No, I love him. Yeah. So in terms of like, has that upped your visibility? I think so. Yeah? Yeah.

You do all right when you do funny bones and shit? Yeah, I do okay, yes. You're headlining? Yeah, headlining. What are you doing, 50? Sometimes more. Okay. Depends.

All clean now? Or that's just Nate? You gotta be Nate clean. But when you go to do- Depends on, like, okay. Cause here's what I do. Like if I know I'm doing, like let's say Corpus Christi with Nate or something,

it's a big arena show, then I'll try to get a date at the comedy club. And so then when I'm on the Nate show, hey, I'm gonna be at this comedy club. Mesqu then when I'm on the Nate show, hey, I'm gonna be at this comedy club, Mesquite Street comedy club or whatever. So that gets out to like- You'll say that as you leave the stage. Or the MC says it, and there's,

10,000 people get to hear it. And that works? Yeah. And so then they'll come out and support me on two months later or whatever. And if I do do that, then I'm clean, because I know I'm getting that audience from Nate and I don't wanna, you know, lose his trust.

Yeah, so I feel like that's my responsibility to keep it clean. But if I'm just headlining and it's not from a Nate show, you know, it might come and go, but I'm trying to lean towards that, but I'm not, you know, it's not the main focus. You got a new special? I just did a dry bar. Yeah, and then I'm recording to lean towards that, but I'm not, you know. It's not the main focus. So, but you did, you got a new special? I just did a dry bar.

Yeah, and then I'm recording something in December, so. Kind of a- What's that called? Keeping Clean. It's like a kind of the idea of kind of staying clean, sobriety, and then also be- As a scandal? Be a clean comic, yeah.

And you haven't recorded that yet? It's in December, yeah. Oh, great. I just did a dry bar, and that was fun. What is a dry bar? It's like a company that does clean specials. So it's like, it's out of Utah. Back to Utah.

Actually in Provo. Yeah, how good. It went all the way back. Full circle. Yeah, full circle. Are they Mormon? Yeah. Okay.

But they got mad at me doing Mormon stuff, but whatever, it's a whole thing. They did? Well, I went back, I did a gig in Jordan, Utah, and I was very excited to do it. I was headlining. And I did that story with the jerking off and all the Mormon stuff,

because I was like, if any of these people, this is the crowd that's gonna get it. Because sometimes I do a crowd, they don't understand this Mormon journey at all, and I gotta explain it more. And it's also, there's a lot of Jack Mormons there. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I mean, I do Salt Lake all the time.

I love it. I love Keith. Stubbs, great guy, great club. And most of the audience that comes, half of them are Jack Mormons. Yeah, that's what I thought. But I think I wrote it the wrong way. Cause I mean, just-

You got reported? I think so. I've been having trouble getting back. You know, so it's- Oh yeah. But I did good. Someone went to the committee. I think so. No, I've been having trouble getting back, you know, so yeah But I did good. They come on went to the committee. I think so To the court they did man. What are you? Hey, dude, it's a big deal. There's some Mormon sanction comics I imagine Nate's Mormon sanctioned. Oh, yeah, because like, you know Regan used to make you know, almost all his money Oh doing the arena because well Nate's that guy now.

Yeah. It's all the Delta Skyline, whatever. Yeah, yeah. All those big arenas. Wild. Yeah. I'm oddly fascinated with Salt Lake, and I like going there.

It's beautiful. Because the Mormons, for me, they're very pleasant people. Yeah. Well, they're taught to love the Jews. They are? Yeah. Yeah, I guess they all see us as essential somehow. Oh, yeah, you guys are the landing pad. You guys are taking care of that. It's touch and go right now. Yeah, it's true. Got a lot of push from the religious people to clean the landing pad, but you know, there's problems persist. Yeah.

I know. Well, how are they gonna get us all there? Don't answer that. Clean the landing pad, but problems persist. Yeah. Whew. I know. Well, how are they gonna get us all there? Don't answer that. Yeah, we're third down on the ice raids. We gotta get all the Jews to Israel. They need restocking. You gotta get them there.

Yeah. Well, that's all pretty exciting stuff, man. I'm glad you're doing all right. Yeah, man. I like it out here, man. I like how- How long you been here? About four years.

Yeah. I love it. It's all right. I live by Running Canyon. Yeah, go. I like it out here, man. I like, I like how- How long you been here? About four years. Yeah. I love it. It's all right. I live by Runyon Canyon. Yeah, go up there. Yeah, I got the dog. I went to a hike today. Yeah.

Up over here. Yeah, Runyon's pretty nice. I love it, yeah. It's just the lifestyle, I like it. You don't go to the store or nothing, though? Belly room, you know, I'm working on it. Hoping this might help. What do you, I mean, you ready for the OR and shit? Oh yeah, I'm ready for anything. I'll follow, I'll follow anybody, man. you, I mean, you ready for the OR and shit? Oh yeah, I'm ready for anything. I'll follow, I'll follow anybody, man.

Well, I'm ready. I'll introduce you to Rose. To Rose. That'd be amazing, yeah. Why don't you, yeah, I'll tell her. I'll see if she's gonna be around tonight. What are you doing tonight? I'll make that. Yeah, I got a, I don't know.

What do you got? I think I got a spot in one of the rooms tonight. I'll see if she's there and I'll introduce you. That'd be great. But you know, I don't know what her system is though. I don't care. This is all I mean, I appreciate that. I don't know how much juice you doing this has,

but it was nice talking to you. I'm glad you thought of it as an angle. But it's not an angle. It's just, well, first of all, I love you. I hadn't talked to you. Yeah. And so this is great. I miss, I do miss that goofy laugh and that energy. But, no, this is a big deal.

I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna go, it's not. I mean, it's a big deal in my world. It may not be a big deal, and it's not an angle. It's just as much as you'd want to be on tonight's show. You know what I mean? You're my Johnny Carson, man. Come on. I hope that, I hope it does something. I don't care if it does, but I'm just saying it my Johnny Carson, man. Come on. I hope that it does something. I don't care if it does,

but I'm just saying it's a big deal to be on it. It's an honor. Like, I love everything you've done. Well, thank you. So it's great. It's fun. And I don't have, like, I'm glad we talked. I don't feel any distance.

No. It's great. I knew it would be fine. Let's go to a meeting. Yeah. Really? Yeah. I'm gonna make you go to a meeting. Let's go. Okay.

I'd love to. There's a great one. I'll tell you about it. What night? Like, Wednesdays. Like, there to a meeting. Let's go. Okay. I'd love to. There's a great one. I'll tell you about it. What night? Like Wednesdays. Like there's a noon meeting that's great. A noon one? Yeah.

What, the comic one? Yeah. Yeah, I'll go. I mean, you know, Bobby's always like, come on. Yeah. Yeah? Yeah. I could probably use one.

Yeah. Or maybe next week if I don't go to New Mexico. You should, yeah. All right, buddy. Good talking to you. Thanks, buddy. Yeah. Wow, good story, right?

You can go to DustinChapin.com to check out his tour dates and watch his special. Hang out for a minute, will ya? You sailed beyond the horizon in search of an island scrubbed from every map. You battled Krakens and navigated through storms. Your spade struck the lid of a long lost treasure chest. While you cooked a lasagna. There's more to imagine when you listen. Discover bestselling adventure stories on Audible.

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He doesn't drive a single truck. And when you first see Bandit, there are signs saying, King of all truckers, come meet the great Bandit, the truck driving world champion, it says on the side. I have a question. So is he driving the truck around the world? Does he go to the Lamans and do with a semi truck? Is he in China, like racing people? On the wall.

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