WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1662 - Sarah Sherman

Episode Date: July 21, 2025

For anyone who knew Sarah Sherman’s act before she got hired for Saturday Night Live, her new gig might have come as a surprise. Rooted in the Chicago DIY scene, she performed as Sarah Squirm, with a unique ability to make her audiences do just that. But Sarah tells Marc that despite all the meat and viscera in her act, she was always a straight-up comedy person at heart, growing up on Long Island with an affinity for Fran Drescher and a love of Three Amigos. They talk about her show Helltrap Nightmare, how Eric Andre changed her life, and how she adjusted to SNL. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Looking for your perfect place to call home? Lethbridge Land is shaping the future of our city with incredible communities like crossings, river stone and watermark. Each neighbourhood is designed with innovation, passion and responsibility to enrich your life today and strengthen Lethbridge for tomorrow. From vibrant urban hubs to serene, coolie views, there's a community waiting for you. Discover the lifestyle you've been dreaming of in a Lethbridge Land community. Visit lethbridgeland.ca and take the first step

towards your new home today. You searched for your informant who disappeared without a trace. You knew there were witnesses, but lips were sealed. You swept the city, driving closer to the truth, while curled up on the couch with your cat. There's more to imagine when you listen. Discover heart-pounding thrillers on Audible. Hey, folks, we have a website that's powered by Squarespace, which has made life easier

for us since we started using it more than a decade ago. With Squarespace's collection of cutting edge design tools, anyone can build a bespoke online presence that perfectly fits their brand or business. Squarespace gives you everything you need to offer services on your site and get paid. Plus streamline your workflow with built-in appointment scheduling and email marketing tools. Check out squarespace.com slash WTF for a free trial and then use offer code WTF to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

That's squarespace.com slash WTF offer code WTF. Okay. All right. You got it. All right. Let's do the show All right, let's do this. How are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fuck nicks? What's happening? I'm mark marron. This is my podcast welcome to it. How are you? How's it going? I am frazzled I'm exhausted and I am stressed the fuck out. I just got back from New Mexico, which was not relaxing at all I'm just I I don't know what it is. I can imagine I can assume it's a combination of things big

transitions in my life big sort of horrible turns in the world and just my cats I mean you look I don't want to be that guy but I am that guy I got home my cat sitter was sending me dispatches throughout the entire time they were holding steady and doing okay for like six of the seven days I was gone then day seven Charlie just beat the fuck out of Buster. I got home, there's hair and piss everywhere. It's a fucking nightmare. And then she had put Charlie upstairs,

put him in the room to separate them. And I get home, I let him out looking for some love, nothing. And then Charlie goes after Buster like he was gonna fucking kill him. I couldn't even get him, I couldn't stop him. Cat fights, they're not, it just, it was a fucking nightmare. It was just devastating. Now Buster's all fucked up and traumatized.

Charlie's back in the room. I got to get him reconnected to me. I don't know what the fuck I'm going to do with this. I can't just, I can't get any peace, man. I can't even have fucking cats that just, you know, relax. I don't know if I got to get rid of Charlie. I don't know what I got to do. Charlie. I don't know what I gotta do. I love the guy, but he's too attached to me.

And I just don't know, I don't know what to do anymore. I've talked to cat professionals. I've tried the Prozac. And I just, you know, I don't know what to do. It's just, it's just too sad, man. But anyway, I'm back. It's been a while since I've been on the mic. A lot of the shows you heard in the last week or

so were pre-recorded because Brendan took a trip to Italy and now I'm back on the mic after about a week and a half. It's weird Again, it got a little I got a little untethered out there. I guess it's just a a forecast of the future Without this anchor in my life, but look I I guess I'll figure out a way to to move through. Me, untethered. I was out in New Mexico, just me in my head, you know, for like a week. Kid came out for a couple of days.

I didn't even know how to explain it. Did I mention Sarah Sherman is on the show? She's been on Saturday Night Live since 2021. She used to write for the Eric Andre show and performs comedy under the stage name Sarah Squirm. A true weirdo. An old school legacy weirdo. God damn it. Thank God for the weirdos. Don't let them crush all the weirdos. They're crushing the mainstream guys. They're crushing Colbert. That was a corporate decision and a political one Probably a mix of both that format is just it's dated. It's outmoded It's a warning not just politically but just in terms of the media landscape that that stuff's gonna go away

Stuff we grew up with stuff. We loved and he's gonna fight the good fight He is an outspoken guy and there was definitely a political component to it, it seems, and it's fucking a shame. The hammer's coming down. The hammer of authoritarianism on all levels, NPR, PBS going away, maybe not going away, but struggling for a presence after being defunded. And these are the outlets. These are the places where thinking thinking rational people who believe in progress and democracy and incremental change

Live and learn and report things and it's it's just happening But Sarah Sherman is a true blue weirdo Thank God for the weirdos. Look the weirdos were never mainstream. It's a rare thing She's done an amazing thing by being a mainstream weirdo, by finding the other part of herself that lives in a kind of the SNL format, which is, you know, can be weird, but Sarah herself is a real fucking art freak. And God bless the art freaks. That's what I got to say.

I mean, I always needed them. I needed them to blow my mind. I remember when I first realized there was something out there, not bigger than me, but definitely out there in a way that wasn't me and not necessarily something I can understand. And it's a great freeing experience. Not just like free jazz. I'm talking about weirdo shit. I'm talking about performance art.

I'm talking about people who do stuff because they got no choice and it's just Incomprehensible to the average mind and even to the slightly smarter mind, but that mind will usually let it happen Take it in break my brain a little bit. Sarah is of that spirit and of that Lineage is exciting to talk to her. I'll be a Largo this Wednesday, July 23rd, playing with the band. And also I'm at the 92nd Street Y in New York City in conversation with Jim Gaffigan on Thursday, July 31st. That's after a screening, an early screening of my HBO special, which releases August 1. So if you want to come hear that that I was very flattered and honored that

Gaffigan was going to come moderate the conversation. I'm interested to hear what he thinks and what he has to say. I'm nervous about the special getting out there and being out there, but it's going to happen. You can go to wtfpod.com slash tour for links to tickets. Now I'm just sitting there. I'm just sitting here. I'm just sitting here in my garage talking to you guys. Having been off the mic for a week or so and uh... Well, yeah, I just don't know what's going on in my house. Had to lock Charlie up. Buster is like just traumatized. It just, it was a brutal fight.

And I just, I don't... Dude, I just need some peace, man. I can't fucking stop it. I can't stop the anxiety. It's unrelenting, folks. I mean, I don't even, you know, I told you I was on the medicine. I mean, I told you that. And I thought it was working,

but I'm not so sure anymore. Not after last week, I mean, Jesus Christ. I spent a week in New Mexico, just me in my head. And it got pretty daunting, folks. Pretty daunting. Kid came out for a couple of days, but I just couldn't get out from under it. I mean, I don't know what it is.

I mean, I think my anxiety is like twofold. I think my brain wants to latch onto things. It thinks it has control over, at least the repetition of images of the worst outcomes Seems to make my brain think it's ready for anything and that that's some kind of control the scenarios play out and all the possible Outcomes play out. So my brain just sees them all the way through and settles on an entire arc and And whether it's bad or good. That's the illusion of control Then the feelings in relation to this complete fabrication

creates a whole nother level of anxiety because now I'm reacting to this arc that's fictitious. It's just like my brain is full of psychic tendrils, all looking to grab hold of something to worry about. And they're relatively successful at finding stuff. Every day, every day, I have to go through the process of getting each one of them to let go. And there's a lot of them and I got to do it like separately. It's just fucking, it's a fucking nightmare. It all breaks down to fear. And

the other element is just some poorly parented part of myself wants parents, wants to be comforted, even with bullshit. I think when I'm grounded, I mean, I can do that for myself, but if I'm untethered, all bets are off, folks. There's just so much out of our control. I mean, almost all of it is out of our control, and I guess it's natural to want some control in your life. I mean, what will you do to have some?

Huh? What does it take? Is it possible? Well, I'll tell you a story. Okay, let me let me lay it out. I was staying at this house in Albuquerque. All right, my brain was on fire. Most of the time I was out there with different degrees of panic for different made-up reasons. I mean look the roots of some of the reasons, you know, were true, were real, but absolutely nothing was happening in relation to those things outside of what was happening in my head, which was just on fire, just generating exciting possibilities of dread. Alright, so here's what happens.

I had a rental car and the house was a real house, not a hotel. I was staying at a house. I'd gone to the supermarket to get some stuff and I arrived back at the house I parked out front. I thought I parked I got out to bring like half the groceries in and I get back out to the Car to find the doors locked and the keys inside which is really hard to do with a fucking key fob I didn't even think it was possible because there's sort of design not to do that Now I found the loophole the loophole is if you leave the car in drive, when you turn it off, when you turn off the car, I guess the car thinks you're still in it.

So the keys were locked in there and there was no way I was going to get them out and there were two pints of ice cream in the car. Non-dairy. I lost my mind, folks. I lost my fucking mind. It was 92 degrees outside I could not accept that the ice cream would just melt and turn to garbage It did just it doesn't refreeze right if it melts all the way down, and I just locked into it Okay, so what would a normal person do they just take the hit?

It's just fucking ice cream for me it became bigger. Okay, it was global warming. It was all the powerlessness I felt about everything. Me standing outside that car, fuming, in complete emotional, psychological, and physical impotence. I mean, obviously, the correct grown-up thing to do is you call triple A, which I've had for decades, but I rarely use, and this is what it's for.

In my fury though, I decided that there was no one AA could send over who could get into this car because it was one of these new cars. They don't even have the little ridge over the buttons on the fucking doors. There was, it was just, and I mean, I don't even know, do they use like slim Jims anymore to get in there? I don't even know. In my futility, I realized I had full coverage on the car, and I should just throw a large rock through the window. OK, save the ice cream.

I mean, I'd have to go to the car rental place, probably fill out some paperwork, probably make up a new story. I'd have to get a new car. Could take a long time. Dumb idea. But in that moment, I saw no other solution. That's how blinded by fury and powerlessness I was.

I saw no other solution. So I found a rock behind the house. I stood facing the car on the side. I wound up and I just launched. It's a giant rock. It was bigger than my fist. Big rock. And I just launched that fucker anticipating the shattering of the window and it just bounced off.

Okay, I don't know. I guess they're making tougher windows now. I don't know. When it hit the ground, I realized, Jesus Christ, I'm a fucking idiot. Who the hell does this? And this was not the way an adult would handle this situation. Right? So I went in, I called AA, and I was stuck in like a recording prompting thing for too long. I didn't even know if I was getting through to anybody. I just felt like I needed to talk to a human.

I needed someone to say, it's gonna be okay, it's gonna be okay. We'll get someone over there. And then they told me to get online. So I got online and I reported it, send a guy to help me. I couldn't even tell if it was happening or not. I didn't even know if it was happening or not. I didn't even know if I, if I, if it got through.

So I looked up the car rental roadside assistance procedure and that would have cost me a bunch of money and you know, who knows when they would have come. So fuck it. I did all, I did everything I could and I did the only thing I knew I should do at that moment is I went outside and I heaved the rock again and again it bounced off the window. So now I'm double dumb Alright, so then a text comes on my phone. The triple-a is sending a truck. It's coming from Santa Fe in an hour So I just had to suck it up and just live with the ice cream melting Just sitting there on the front seat. Nothing I could do. It wasn't a baby, you know, I was the baby

I just wanted my fucking ice cream, but that so I had a man up Dude, suck it up. Eventually, you'll go get more ice cream So I just went into the house and tried to bide my time. I bought some broccoli So I there was an air fryer there. So I got that going. I like that burnt broccoli Then I got informed on my phone that the truck was coming in 15 minutes. What? Great! So maybe the ice cream? Nah, it's probably not going to make it. But I still didn't believe that anyone could get in the car. I mean, that was the bottom line. I couldn't figure it out. Who's going to figure it out? So the air fryer, around this time,

the air fryer just started smoking. It's just right as the truck pulled up, the air fryer is like smoking. And the smoke alarm connected to the house was connected to an alarm system, to ADT. So I tried to get the smoke out, it's going off. I shut off the air fryer and went out to deal with the driver. As the alarm was blaring, I went out to deal with the tow truck guy. He was a Native American guy.

Looked to be well in his 70s. He had kind of a bandana headband, he looked like an elder of some sort. And he had this large wobbly wand with a bunch of like, it looked like just a wad of tape on the end. And I asked if, you know, do you think you can get into this car? He said, I don't know, probably. Fine. I left him to it.

And I went back into the house, I called the alarm company, I tell them it was just a cooking thing and not to send the fire department They're like they've already been dispatched and I'm like god damn it So now I go outside The end the alarm eventually shut off on its own. I got the smoke I went outside to see the progress the guy was making with the magic wand and I heard the sirens in the distance and I was like you got to be fucking kidding me told the guy like fire departments coming you know I burned some broccoli so I went out into the street to greet the fire engine and wave him down and there was a driver and

there were two guys all suited up for fire and I was like look hey fellas I'm sorry I'm so sorry you know it's just a cooking situation you know there's no fire and you know they had to just a cooking situation. You know, there's no fire. And you know, they had to slide down the pole and everything probably. And they said it was fine. Look, it's just part of our job, you know, good guys. And then they're like, let us come in, just do a heat sensor. I'm like, sure, sure, come on in.

So two fully geared up fire guys come in and they walk around the kitchen. We had a nice chat, nice guys. I thanked them. I said, I'm sorry, I'm an idiot. And they went away. And then the guy, the elder, said he got the car opened. And I was like, you gotta be fucking kidding me. So I gave him a nice tip and he took off in his truck.

I ran the ice cream into the house, I put it in the freezer, still had it melted all the way, pretty far gone though. And later that night, I got the ice cream into the house, I put it in the freezer, still had it melted all the way, pretty far gone though. And later that night I got the ice cream out and just plowed into it. And it was fucking amazing. It was fucking amazing. And I felt like a fucking child, but I ate like half a pint and I realized this is, this seemed a little too good. And I realized that it wasn't on dairy. Yeah. So I stopped eating it and yeah,

I don't know where to go with this story. I mean, after all was said and done, it was quite an exciting day. I had a half pints worth of real happiness before returning to panic of what all that dairy would do to my stomach after being plant-based for so long now. Turns out not much, just a bit of gas, which is enjoyable in its own way.

So that was the big payoff for the day, is that I got to enjoy a half a pint of full cream ice cream before I realized it was that, and then it kind of, I was like, ah, fuck, and then later, you know, I had gas. And yeah, but that's not nothing. It all worked out okay. I have control over nothing, but sometimes there's ice cream. Yeah, that's it. Pretty exciting stuff though, right?

Okay, Sarah Sherman. I was so thrilled to talk to her because I am a true a true fan of art freaks and You know when I saw her stand up and when I started to look into her There was just it triggered a lot of great stuff in my memory about the residents about the New York in my memory about the residence, about the New York performance art scene that was just a little before my time

and just all this stuff that I used to read about and see pictures of a radical art on the performance level. And I really wanted to talk to her because I wondered how she came to it. She's on Saturday Night Live, which is nominated for Best Scripted Variety Series at this year's Emmy.

Sarah will be back on the 51st season of SNL this fall. He's on Saturday Night Live, which is nominated for Best Scripted Variety Series at this year's Emmys. Sarah will be back on the 51st season of SNL this fall, and this is me talking to the beautiful weirdo that is Sarah Squirm. Slip into a deep restful sleep on a luxurious feeling mattress you can afford. Logan & Cove is named Canada's best luxury hybrid mattress. Designed and handcrafted in Canada, it starts at just $7.99. Melt into its plush top cover. Stay comfortable with cooling gel foam.

And let supportive coils cradle you to sleep. Try Logan & Cove at home risk-free for 365 nights. And if you're a listener in Canada, we have an exclusive offer for you. Get a free bedding bundle when you buy now at loganandcove.ca slash podcast. I keep wanting to call you Cindy Sherman, the photographer. You can. Does that happen all the time?

Yeah, people also call me Sarah Silverman. No, I'm not going to do that. I know her. I know, but it won't stop you from saying it by accident. Really, people? But not really, do they really? My friend in high school's dad called me Sarah Silverman for the entire four years I was in high school with him, and I never corrected him.

Like, let him have it, sure. That's crazy. But you get, I mean, it's like, the names sound exactly the same. Do you know Cindy Sherman work? Yeah, I went and saw her, the last couple years ago, I was at that tiny gallery over here.

Oh yeah. Spruce Madger, whatever. Yeah, was it good? Yeah. She does the funny Photoshop thing, which I think a lot of people aren't hilarious at, but I think she's hilarious. She's doing a Photoshop thing now?

She's doing funny Photoshop, yeah. Like what do you mean? Like making like crazy weird characters. Yeah. Totally fried, edited, crazy. Oh really? Yeah. Cause she always did kind of wigs and stuff.

Mm-hmm. Now it's like, it's computer wigs. Ah. With Photoshop. What is this? That's a good question. I think it's a tool. Ah.

Some kind of like undoes, it undoes something. Oh, it undoes. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah like like I don't know what it came with but you know, you put it over the bolt. Uh-huh. Yeah got any other questions about that? There's items for people to play with. Well, there was more. There was more in the old garage. The knife I found in my old apartment in New York because the woman who lived there was a German photographer and her boyfriend collected knives. And somehow that got left behind. The exercise, hand exercising was left here.

I think that came in a box of Schwag. That's an unpress record. That's cool. Yeah. I didn't know that it was like that. Mm-hmm. That's what it looks like before they make it, they stamp it into a record.

Isn't it crazy? Yeah. Isn't it crazy? Yeah. Isn't that crazy? It's crazy how things work. It's crazy. So what are you, what's going on? What are you doing here? Oh, it started already.

Sure. I'm in Los Angeles, California in Mark Barron's house. You're hardly ever here. I, yeah, that's true. And you don't like it? Well, I actually like it a lot. I lived here for two whole years before I moved to New York for SNL.

You did? I lived right next to Jumbo's clown room and I liked it a lot. Did you go to Jumbo's? I went there a lot. Yeah, taped boobies? My friend dances there. Yep, taped boobies, shout out to Emily, she's hilarious.

She'll do like, she'll paint her face like, she'll paint her face like in corpse paint and like do a crazy dance to like a song from the Crow. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's great. Oh, yeah. Cause it doesn't seem like, it seems like a, uh, I think I've been there once, but it's more of a tourist attraction as opposed to a degenerate strip bar. And it's like a, it's like more of a girls and gays hangout too. Yeah, it's like campy. Yeah, it's like a funny strip club, everybody being hilarious. Yeah, it's kind of like that weird one in Atlanta.

Oh, Claremont Lounge. Oh, amazing. And they have a hotel there now so you can stay in the hotel. Next door? Oh, right on top of it. Yeah. And isn't there some woman who's been there for like 50, 60 years? And God bless, I hope she's been there for like 50, 60 years?

And God bless, I hope she's there right now doing the morning shift. I once, I saw a very sad thing at a strip club. I know it's hard to believe. Oh, that's okay. You being there? I'm kidding. No, I was never one for that kind of stuff.

But we ended up, like it was back before I sobered up and I was doing acme in Minneapolis, like it was back before I sobered up and I was doing acme in Minneapolis. And it was during the day. And we were just up and drinking and we went over there and it was like an open mic for strippers. Oh, like an audition? Kinda. But it was like, and it was, there was something very sad about it. Like it definitely felt like some of these women did not really want to be doing that. But if even if you think that like that's a real skill.

You know what I mean? Yeah sure well this was not a professional show. Right. It was a little heartbreaking. Right. I don't think that's the right effect. But we've been to open mics at that time of day and that that's way sadder, because there's no skill involved in fact. You mean the comedy open mics? Yeah. The ones that happen at like three in the afternoon? Yep. There's too many comics.

Yep. There are a lot of them. Yeah. There are a lot. And I don't know how you can do that. You're just performing for a room full of peers at a coffee shop in the afternoon. How do you know when you're being funny? I don't. But it's so, I did it for so long that it's like I don't even know any other way to do comedy.

Do you know what I'm saying? Oh, you've done those shows. I did. I hosted an open mic in Chicago for three years. Cole's open mic shout out from 8 p.m. to 2 a.m. Well, that's at night at least. Right, at least, yeah. You know, it's like, anytime you go on stage and it's still light out, it doesn't feel correct. What?

It's just, it's not, because when it gets dark, then it's like dark. Right, it is, right. And you can do the thing. Right, you can bomb and then like, just skulk away into the darkness. Into the night. Where no one can see you.

But like, where did you come from? I'm from Long Island originally. Which town? Great Neck, New York. That's one of the five towns. That's one of the towns. It's the home of John Taffer. John Taffer.

Andy Kaufman Synagogue was right down the street from my synagogue. Yeah, I had cousins there in Hewlett. Oh really? Yeah. You're not Jewish, yes you are Jewish. 100%. You are, you are. 99.9 Ashkenaz, Fuller Thurow, all the way through. You're not Jewish. Yes, you are Jewish. You are. You are. 99.9 Ashkenaz, full through. All the way through. Back to the Ukraine, up into the Pale of Settlement, all the way.

Yeah, yeah. And you have stomach problems? No, I don't. I don't. What? I don't have stomach problems. At all? I think I have anxiety issues. Right. But I did not get the Ashkenaz stomach problems. My brother does, little lactose intolerant. Right. You? I'm fully lactose, I mean, it's any physical or spiritual malady I have like manifests

as like a stomach disorder. Really? Really? Yes. Like when you said like earlier, you were like, oh yeah, I'm doing vegan. I just interpreted it as Jewish stomach. Oh no, no. My stomach's pretty good. You just care about animals and other creatures on God's earth.

Well, that's, can you, no, no, it was more of a- No, you don't care about the creatures on God's great earth. I care about most of them, but I, you know, if I'm one step removed, my caring is tempered by the fact that, like, I'm wearing boots right now. I got a lot of shit from the vegan community that I couldn't call myself vegan I'm literally putting my cup of coffee for the listeners at home. I'm putting my cup of coffee down on a leather Coaster exactly and it's I bought that it was surplus at a shop in Canada. It's for the Alberta Red Cross Just had this these things of rejects and I just bought them

The other ones are Jimmy Fallon coasters. Wow, but they're whether to know it's not about animals about cholesterol. It's about If I don't have a bad gut, but I think my heart's not the best right? Yeah, that's what I got Do you think the anxiety helped? Do you get anxiety? I didn't sleep all last night. Why? I was just anxious. I just get anxious and I can't sleep. Do you spin shit in your head?

Like what do you- A million percent. But like what goes? I mean like I somehow managed to be able to sleep as an older person, I don't know how. Magnesium. I saw you taking the magnesium- But that's during the day, it's not that same magnesium. But like when your brain spins like what do you are you full of dread? Yes?

Dread yes, and just any you know I'm just saying I can't stop Thinking constantly about everything I've ever done and everything that's going to happen badly really yeah And you just manage that yeah, so you think about things you've done and be like you fucking idiot. Yes, and then I'll play them out and like there will be like different scenarios and it's you know, the mind is amazing. What's going on in there? It's like why pay for the movies when you get ones for free? Yeah, and you have no control over them. You literally have to try to shut the screen off. It's the worst. Hey, I think I'm sleeping. Am I sleeping? I'm sleeping. And I'm not sleeping. It's humiliating, but do you see what I'm wearing

on my finger? Is that one of those? Mm-hmm. I got a whoop watch. Because are you finding out about when you're sleeping? Yeah. Because you know, you'll just be lying there and you're like, I assumed I had slept at some point.

Yeah. But then I'll look at the ring and it's like, oh, I never was sleeping that whole time. That's the fucking worst. I only sleep like maybe six, six to seven hours. I would love a classic eight. I would. I can't do a classic eight.

But it's one of the things that's gonna help your heart, make you live forever if you get one of those classic famous eights. Tell my bladder. So you're hydrating, that's good. You live in the desert, you should hydrate. I hydrate, yeah. Well, what are you on, medicine? No.

Did you just forgo it? I go to therapy twice a week, doesn't do anything. Twice a week? He sits there, he doesn't say, I'm there saying the most interesting fucking shit on the planet. Yeah, nothing? He's got some stuff.

I mean, I was like going to trippy therapists. I had like a dream analyst, I wasn't. How'd that go? If you don't sleep. It was bad. You have to make up well I will also wake up in the middle of the night because I've had a crazy dream Yeah, and my my most recurring dream is um it is maybe you've had this what being on stage trying to scream No one can hear you

I'm talking no one can hear me Crazy, or I'm screaming no sounds coming. I have a throat chakra thing. Yeah, oh really? Yeah. How did you land on throat chakra? Which therapist told you that? Oh, the craziest one, actually. These people should be arrested. These people should be in jail. You ever like talk to a friend and they're like, yeah, my therapist told me some fucking crazy bullshit, and you're like, they should be in jail. It's not working. Is is my voice piercing I feel like it's blowing out no head but that is interesting because you realize that like these therapists are just fucked up people they what do they have to do to be a therapist they theoretically they have to do a certain amount of hours yeah get certified but what does that

mean really it's all up to them and their ideas I went to therapy today and how was that it's all right I just started back up again I hadn't been in years and I started today no no I just started back up again. I hadn't been in years. And you started today. No, no, I just went today. I've been going for the last few weeks. Because usually I'll only go if I need to, kind of get something, like if I'm stuck.

No, you gotta be watering the garden. You can't only go when it's an emergency, Mark. It's not an emergency. It's a specific problem that I know will take some time. Okay, you're massarging the issue. Right. Right. But I can't stay in there the whole time.

I'm just paying a person to just be like, what? And what kind of psycho... I can talk to you. Now I'm going to think about my throat chakra. Right. But I don't have a problem with the throat chakra. You don't because you communicate a lot. But I have a chest chakra problem. Where your heart is? Well for me the stress like I get tight

chest like I can feel it in my breathing like I don't get stomach things but I get like you know chest tightening. Okay. Yeah that's where there that's where it happens for me. Okay. Sometimes headaches but not too often. From stress. I guess. You get like dizzy. No, I wouldn't know I mean, I'm on like the fucking zins all day. I drink too much coffee I wouldn't know if I had long kovat right I wouldn't know I don't know what the baseline of hey I feel good is don't know right. Maybe long kovat is just like existential dread right right. It's like Epstein-Barr dread That's the one everyone had for a while. Right, right.

Tired, made you tired. Like lime? No, lime's real. Lime's real. Lime's fucked up. You have lime. I don't. I know a guy who has it. That can really fuck you up.

Ticks. Well, cause they like what? Like some like- It's a immune problem. Immune, it really, I don't know what it does. Cause there's like military testing and then it leaked from the lab and then the ticks got it.

No, I think you're thinking of COVID. No, I think that this was also a, now I'm crazy. A little bit. But I think that there's like a theory that Lyme is caused because they were doing some like weird military Oh really? medical experiments on like. Hey, who knows the truth, man?

You know, truth is relative. Tell that to my therapist. So twice a week, now is this like one of these comedian therapists? There's a truth man, you know truth is relative. Tell that to my therapist. So twice a week, now is this like one of these comedian therapists? No, no, no, no, no. What do you take me for, a fool? How'd you find your guy? I had a therapist so crazy that I was talking about him not to brag at a party and I was like,

I think my fucking therapist is fucking crazy. Yeah. And then this girl at the party was like, what's your therapist's name? Told her first and last, she goes, my ex-boyfriend was driven into the mouth of madness by that therapist. Really?

And she recommended, and then on the spot I was like, who's your therapist, help me. And she was like, it's this guy. And then he ended up being down the street from my house. So that's my guy now. And he doesn't do anything? I don't. It's who can say really.

But wait, how does, what was so crazy about the other one? How does one, a therapist drive you into madness? Just, you know, I got like, I was having real, is this interesting at all? You're interesting. Just go with it. I had, I was having, when the Titan submersible exploded.

I was having intrusive thoughts throughout the day that I was at the bottom of the ocean and I was in the submersible exploding. And I would be on stage at- At SNL? I was at Talia Hall, Chicago Chicago when I was talking and I was doing my act and in the middle of it the top have you ever done Talia Hall it's a stunning tall gothic almost cave. And they give you socks. And they give you socks.

Yeah they give you socks. Yeah. I love the socks. Good socks. You're on tour you need to change your socks. You got socks with Talia Hall. So you're on stage. And it's like there's this like there's a it has a dark cavern like quality because the ceiling's so tall and I don't usually do big rooms like that. I usually do short little ceiling comedy clubs. And I was just faced with the events, the immense vast void of the dark space

in the, in Talia Hall. And I was at the bottom of the ocean. And I was like, guys, what's good? I know I was just talking about my hemorrhoids five seconds ago, but I have to be honest with you guys, I'm at the bottom of the ocean. Everyone was like, oh, what's good? I know I was just talking about my hemorrhoids five seconds ago, but I have to be honest with you guys, I'm at the bottom of the ocean. Everyone's like, oh, huh? Yeah.

I was just at the bottom of the ocean. And you know what I think it is? Because when I pathetically attempt to meditate, I do, my mental, for lack of a better term, safe meditative space was picturing, imagining myself at the bottom of the ocean. And I felt so calm there. And then once the Titan submersible exploded,

I was like, well, that was my fucking spot, bro. Like now I don't have a fucking spot. You ruined it. They ruined it. Broke your brain. Yes, and now I don't have it. Oh shit. I actually, now I don't have a zone

that I can just like fucking go to because that was my fucking spot. You can't go to the bottom of the ocean anymore. No, and that was, and then I would be at the bottom of the ocean and there would be no, you know, because it's like sensory deprivation. There's like, you know, you can't really hear much. I look, I can see the sunlight.

And I'm there now. And actually I feel like my heart rate is elevating because it used to bring me much joy and peace. But do you feel this submersible? Are you in the submersible or is it just suggested? I just know it. Okay. Because now I have too many like mental associations with it.

Just the whole idea of being crushed by water is pretty awful. And it used to not be awful to me. I used to not feel crushed when I was at the bottom of the ocean, I used to feel extreme peace. I'm sorry, I'm sorry you can't live there anymore. Where do you go now when you meditate? What do you try to do? I just, I went to, I'm sorry you can't live there anymore. Where do you go now when you meditate? What do you try to do?

I just, I went to, I started doing TM. You did? Did you get a thing? And I got a thing, so I try to just be at the thing. Yeah. But there's this kind of this door that I've been chilling at in my meditations. Yeah. It's a, not to brag, it's a golden arch of light. Oh yeah.

And I just kind of chill in arch of light. Oh yeah. That I just kinda chill in front of this door. Yeah, you don't go in the door, is it a- No, I'm at the opening, I'm at the threshold. Okay, and is there- Oh my God, you're catching me at complete psychosis today. Is there a point- This is crazy.

What do you mean, is there a point where you go to the door? Is there like- I'm just at door light streaming through it. But no, there's no sort of like, when do I get to go through? You know what's interesting? It's not even about that. Okay, good.

Because my mantra appears in the doorway. And I bask in the light of it. You doing it twice a day, 20 minutes? Nope. Then what the fuck? I say that I do it, but I don't. Lord knows that I do not be doing it. Nope, once a day even?

If I'm good. Something happened, I fell off. You know what's interesting about podcasting, which is an industry that you are, sir, you're a pioneer of. Yes. Podcasts and the like have kind of replaced people's internal monologue.

Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Believe me, I'm hearing from a lot of people today that are concerned about their weeks without hearing my voice in their head. And I'm not saying that it's good that you're writing the podcast, because obviously it's not a great thing going on here,

but the listener is, you should be thinking your thoughts and living in your mind palace. Yeah, you mean they should on their own. Yeah, like think about all this stuff that we do instead of like meditating Well, I appreciate the idea that it's a mind palace as opposed to you know a mind labyrinth of fucking horrors I know it should be good in there Yeah, but you can't even go the ocean anymore. I know and like and you can't sleep. I know

I'm working on it. So wait, so you grew up in great Neck? Uh-huh. Like in what, was your dad in the Jewish businesses? He's in the Shmata business. Get the fuck out of here. And you're like a Shmata hanger. Uh-huh, uh-huh. I loved visiting my dad at Shmata. In the garment district with all the fucking guys. Old school, still?

Still there? Yep, yep, God bless. Come on. He's trying, bro, like retail, let me tell ya, retail post-COVID. Yeah, so he's in the knockoff business, let me tell you, retail post COVID. Yeah, so he's in the knockoff business? Yep, yes ma'am. Oh my God.

And I loved, and he makes little girls dresses, shout out to Andrew Sherman. Yeah, wow, that's amazing. Yep. So you're growing up in the shmata, in the fashion district, guys pushing carts around, pushing just dozens of suits. Yep, and when I was like this big, however old this big is,

I was like in the elevator visiting my dad and I'm like, this is so fucking cool, I'm in fucking Manhattan. I'm in an elevator going up to like the 33rd floor, this is like sick. And one of the schmata dudes gets in the elevator and it's like, Andy, your daughter's fucking cute, I gotta get her in my fucking catalog catalog because he made Christmas dresses for Sears

Yeah, and I was like I was this little big, but I wanted to be sure a comedian Yeah, yeah, yeah something. I wanted to be a comedian when I was this big how big like nine I don't even have a memory of not wanting to be a comedian. No, literally this big. I'm not kidding Who is the comedian that was your point of reference? Um, like Fran Drescher Yes. Yeah that I mean literally like dude Fran Drescher I would like go to my aunt's house and the block of TV was The nanny and then golden girls. Yeah, so it was just like the nanny and then golden girls. So it was just like women being fucking hilarious

and Fran Fine would shop at Filene's basement where I would shop on Long Island. She would go to Lomans and get like, yes. Lomans. Yeah. Oh. So that was like, I was like, that's my girl. I mean, this is so, what I'm wearing right now

is like a total Fran Fine. If this was tight, this is for the listeners at so what I'm wearing right now is like a total friend if this was tight Yeah, this is for the listeners at home. I'm wearing like a triple XL Thing yeah, like a circus tent of a shirt, but this was like a tight little thing. Yeah be here and also she's so Jewish So familiar She's so familiar. Yeah, like if you're on the island, that's like every other woman. Yes Yes, except she was so fucking fab like yeah, so glamorous like I wasn't around that much like true glamour like yeah You're around Bloomingdale's glamour. Yes, but that's why I liked finally basement at Lomons

Yeah, still had that like it's like the knockoff glam. You can find stuff. Yeah, you can find nobody one Yeah, yeah, right. So did you do this year's catalog? So then I'm in the, I'm like, I'm old enough where I remember I'm so tiny and I'm holding like my stuffed animal at the time. Yeah. So that's how young I was. Right.

And he was like, Andy, you gotta let me put your daughter in my fucking catalog. And I was like, yes, yes! And I was like, begging my dad, like, fuck please, please. And my dad was like no I'm not fucking doing that cuz my you know I had wanted to do I wanted to perform when I was a kid and I wanted to like Audition I would see signs in town for Pinocchio at the JCC and my parents were like you're not fucking doing that

So perverts can like fucking you know I'm sorry they were just like we don't they don't want me trafficked in the pervert trade Well, then they didn't trust the directors or the theater or like you're young I don't want pictures like taken of you put in the newspaper a pervert will see it like that's like I have a very Overprotective dad and now that was always his fear. That was always his fear that perverts would Get me. Okay, and Could he have been more right? Like really, think about that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so, I mean these were like, this guy made Christmas dress, little girls dresses for the Sears catalog. You know, you get the catalogs on Sundays, whatever. Yeah. So I bothered my parents enough that my dad was like, okay, you can model for the fucking. Did he have to check the outfits and everything?

No, but he was pissed because it was, there were little Christmas dresses. Yeah, well I thought that was the pitch. Well, no, my dad was like, you're fucking Jewish. You don't know about Christmas, okay? You know one thing and one thing only, and that's like the menorah. Yeah.

But like I was raised like super, I went to a conservative synagogue, no one in my family could speak or read Hebrew. No, yeah. No. Yeah, it's just a middle-class conservative Jew thing. Yes, and it's always like this like inherited Holocaust drama. Holidays.

Oh yeah, of course. Like, they're coming for you, be Jewish, whatever. The gift shop with the paintings of the old men, Taurus. And we had, of course, the shop was called the Zion Lion in Great Neck. Yeah. We had a guy, Fred, was it Veston? There was a Holocaust survivor at my temple that did paintings. So, the gift shop, you always had, you'd get one on your bar mitzvah, an original painting by him.

Wow. Yeah. Do you still have it to this day? I wonder if I have it. I hope I have it. They were always just old men with holding Taurus. Right. And that was the whole thing. Well, I, of course, used my bat mitzvah to do a routine. You did?

I was hamming it up, up there. To the point where I got my mom, I just remember seeing my mom in the front row going, doing the cut. Stop it! Stop it! So, wait, so did your dad put the kibosh on the Christmas outfits? They let me do it. And it was the best day of my life Like I had to get up at like I remember having to get up at 6 a.m

Yeah to go to Manhattan to get my hair and fucking makeup done for the Sears catalog And I'd never worn a Christmas dress like, you know, very stoic Jews There's no like poofy cupcake dresses my wife like only very serious, you know, very stoic Jews, there's no like poofy cupcake dresses in my life. Like only very serious, you know, whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And like, I felt like so glamorous

because they were doing my makeup. I'd never had my makeup done and I'd never worn a poofy dress. And they sat me like a little, little Miss Tuffet, a little Miss Muffet on my tuffet on top of a pile of presents in front of a Christmas tree. Like we didn't have like all this shit. We didn't have all this shit. We didn't have a fucking sparkly Christmas tree

with fancy fucking presents. For Hanukkah, I literally got a pencil case. I never got all this fun shit. But I just remember getting up at 6 a.m. That was the big thing, I had to get up so early. And get ready. And get ready. Yeah, the Jewish, the stuff that goes

with Jewish holidays, not very uplifting. I mean, it was just a- And there's no like pomp and circumstance in this part. Just a dreidel. Yes. Everything's wood or rock. Yes. Gold chocolate coins.

That tastes like shit, by the way. Yeah, they're always dry. And just like a ball of salted pickled fish. It's like not fun. It's not fun. Do you have a taste for the pickled fish now? No. It's not fun, it's not fun. Do you have a taste for the pickled fish now? No, it's fucking gross. Like pickled herring is fucking gross.

Well what about like smoked kipper, salmon? No, none of that shit. And I had chronic diarrhea my whole life. Because you didn't know you were lactose intolerant? Yes, because I lived in a bagel house, so it was like breakfast bagel and cream cheese, lunch tuna fish bagel, dinner, whatever dinner was with a side of bagel.

And then I'm like, my entire life was like- Just diarrhea. Diarrhea blowout, like emergency level. Never like, oh, I have to shit, give me 20 minutes. It's always an emergency when I have to shit. And then it's like, right, because I can't have cream cheese on an IV drip. Yeah.

It's disgusting. No challah, no challah. Yeah, I love a challah. Challah's good, right? Babka. Love a babka. Well, it's guys very dairy. That's true.

But dairy, no, just egg, a lot of milk. With chocolate. I guess it doesn't always have. I guess that's true. But like if I could have a, I would like go nuts on a kugel right now. Right? The sweet kind. I would go would like go nuts on a kugel right now. Right? The sweet kind.

I would go nuts on that. Noodle kugel? That's like a whole jar of milk. But anyway, so then after I do the photo shoot, every single weekend, the brochures come out, the Sears brochure, and I'm looking for my picture, I'm looking for my picture. And I can't find it.

I don't see it, I'm never in it. And every weekend I'm like, where's my picture in the brochure? And my dad went, my dad took it as an opportunity to do like a Jewish supremacy proud moment. It was like, they didn't put you in the fucking Christmas catalog because you're too fucking Jewish.

That's what they told me. Turned out my dad was just saying that. Like it's like, I saw basically when I was, like I was like home from college and I was looking through old photos, I found the negatives from that photo shoot and I just looked like fucking shit. I didn't know how to smile.

I had bags under my eyes because of like, you know I had to get up at six a.m. I was so excited, I probably didn't sleep all night and I was like, it's a little tiny thing, like not even the size of a like tadpole. And I had these just like luggage under my eyes. I was so tired, very old child. And so that's what did it.

I just was not as cute as a button. Yeah. Was that the end of the fascination? No. So you were like probably really young. So when do you start performing the, when do you start annoying everybody with your need for attention? Just, it's so embarrassing. Like I went, it's so cool when people are like, I was like an underwater welder before I got into comedy.

It's like, I just want to be a comedian my whole life. And so, you know. But like who were the other people? Fran Drescher? Who were the other people, Fran Drescher? Who were the other people that were like, I wanna be that. I was addicted to Seinfeld. Oh really? Like I memorized like every Steve Martin thing.

Like I memorized the three amigos. Wow. Yeah. When you were like what, 10? Yeah. Really? Yeah, like literally like, I'll even try to like impress Lauren now by being like, will you kiss me on the veranda? Lips is fine. And he's like, all right, cool.

I wrote that, whatever. It's not, you're not impressing me right now. So, but do you have siblings? Yeah, I have a little brother. How's he holding up? He's the best. He's like a, like my little brother, like, you know, because I was always a little freak.

And then my brother, he's like a business guy. Like a business bro. He was like the pledge master at his Jewish fraternity. Say goodbye to Tau, everyone. Something like that. That's my dad's. ZBT. Something like that.

I was sorry, Jack, I wish I knew. You don't need to know. I told him when he joined the frat, I was like, Tau, der! You know, I was like, he's five years younger than me, but you know him when he joined a frat. I was like how dare you know I was like He's five years younger than me, but you know when he joined I was like how fucking dare you join that that is a codified rape Institution like what do you know yeah, and he's like shut up You don't know how to hang

I'm gonna I didn't know how to hang for a really long time. I was very uptight Yeah, not anymore. No he would like like come home drunk and I would be like, what are you doing? Get your shit together. And he'd be like, bro, I'm 16. I'm having fun, relax. And you were still at home when you were 20? No, I went to college in Chicago.

When did you start doing comedy for real? I did my first open mic when I was 16 years old. Where, Pips? At the Hog Pit NYC, because it's a barbecue restaurant. So you could do an open mic under 21. Where was that? Somewhere in Midtown, I can't remember.

Like Times Square? In my head, it's like where Dinosaur Barbecue was, but I don't think that's it. And I can't imagine. Like Hell's Kitchen, kinda? It had to have been like walking distance from Penn Station because it's like, I can't imagine myself as a 16 year old like venturing far from Penn Station.

But I wore a bow tie and the host made fun of me. Okay, and what'd you do? I had a joke, I had a joke that was something like I had a joke that was something like, like my virginity is so old, you could get it on the Antiques Roadshow or something like that. Classic. Well, it's also like, who was fucking and sucking at 16

that I was feeling so old? Yeah. And then one thing about like, you guys feel bad that you have to be in this room with me for five minutes, how do you think I feel? I have to be with me forever. That's pretty good. That's pretty good, that's not bad.

Not bad, yeah, I like it. Already aware of, that's like a pretty poetic self-deprecation, big. I thought so. Big, yeah. I thought so. Yeah, yeah, just the misery of me. But then I couldn't really take it

when the host made fun of my bow tie. I remember being like, oh man. You fuck. Yeah. How are your feelings? I think I was, like, it was the first time that I was aware of, like, like, cause he was miserable.

He was this, like like big fat 40 year old hosting an open mic. At the hog pit. At the hog pit and there was a game on, there were ribs out, like he wasn't happy. And so I was like kind of confronted with like the misery of like being a comedian. And the shrapnel of someone else's misery.

Yeah. Yeah. So was that, how long did you put it on the shelf after that experience? I didn't. You kept going? I like, you know, I put it on the shelf after that experience? I didn't. You kept going? I like, you know, I didn't, I had an improv troupe in high school. We would perform in the basement of the local public library. How'd that go?

Awesome. But what were you doing? I don't know. But whenever like children doing improv do. Well, when does your mind get blown to create what you are now? Like, was it in college where you started to inform your thing? Yeah, and you know what was funny too?

I grew up addicted to pee-wee and all, you know? And something happened where, I don't know how to say this without sounding kind of like a jag off, but like, you know, I'm a visual artist as well. And I didn't know about marrying the two. Like even though I grew up on Pee-wee and was addicted to Pee-wee, I was like,

I would do stand-wee and like was addicted to Pee-wee, I would like... You didn't make the connection. I would do stand-up and then like it took me until college where I like realized that I could like have it, I could do both at the same time. Like I would make posters for the stand-up show. But like even with Pee-wee, like you didn't make the connection that the set was an integral part of the presentation. Like Gary Panther had put together this, you know, this really conceptual kind of punk camp set to inform the entire situation. Like I knew that that was like the playhouse, it was like the only place in the world that was safe to go to.

Right. But for some reason, like, you know, just starting out as standup, I was so, I just didn't realize that it could all be one thing while I was doing it. It was almost like I had a bifurcated mind or something. Sure. Well, yeah, because the standup is like, I go up and I talk. Yeah, right. And so, but you didn't, like, there was no point where you, like, got hip to performance

artists or any of that shit. So then when I moved to Chicago. Yeah. So then, like, when I was, and then when I moved to Chicago, so then like when I was, and then when I, how old are you when you graduate college? High school or college, I don't know, maybe 20. 20? Yeah, 21.

So when I graduated college, I was like, oh my God, this could be all one thing. And then I was in the like Chicago DIY scene with these like crazy performance artists who were doing like nuts stuff. Yeah. And I started like. What was it called called the Chicago DIY scene

Yeah, why scene so that was something that wasn't stand-up or improv. It was this other thing It was just people like there was Chicago has a really big like noise Yeah, it was crazy like my friend Jill would do this act called forced into femininity where she would like Take a bag of crickets and like, scream into a contact mic and be like, ah, you know, whatever. So I was like, so then I started this show with my friends

called, it was called Hell Trap Nightmare, which was just basically, just, we were figuring out how to blend the two. Like, you know what, do you know Ian Abramson? No. His comic, he lived here in LA for a while. He, I was doing this like performance thing where I was, it wasn't very funny and I'm going to describe something that's not funny. Okay.

But I'm, you know, I'm secure enough to admit that I've done a lot of unfunny things in my life. Yeah. I was doing this thing. Sinead? I mean, yes, yes. I feel like I said there were luggage bags under my eyes, I didn't get a laugh.

I noticed that, I remember. I'm laughing at unique places. You're smiling. I laughed a few times. Okay, that's good. The, you know, the bagel house, that was good. You grew up in a bagel house. Yeah, I did grow up in a bagel house.

Oh, there you go again, I didn't laugh. I gave you cream cheese, you know, I've been laughing. Okay, okay. All right, so this guy Abramson. He, so I was like doing this bit. Yeah. Where, like I started incorporating like multimedia elements into my stuff

because I was like, oh yeah, I can make visual art and comedy at the same time. So I did this like game called just, I'm gonna be vulnerable and honest. Okay. And just be honest with what I was doing Okay, I'll hold the space for you. Where did Sarah from where did Sarah pluck that hair? That's what it was called. Okay, and there's these crazy graphics

I mean whatever and so I would show these like blown up body hairs Yeah on the projector nice and be like where did this come from like is this a nipple hair? But whatever yeah, and I would like I had a laser pointer I was like pointing at like the follicle and what are you know I'd be like you know I whatever it was like Kind of crowd working. Yeah, whatever Show I mean people were it wasn't funny, but it was interesting Yeah, so you know so I had like a bunch of hairs And they had a guess where the hair where my body the hairs were From was it a trick question or well, then the trick question started happening where some of the hairs were from goats

yeah, and I got I found a goat. I don't remember how this happened, but I found I had I was reading some news story, because, you know, I'm not gonna say I don't read. Sure, you can try to keep up. Yeah, not to brag, I was reading a newspaper, and I had found out that some people use herds of goats

to manicure their lawns or like, eat like vegetation or something, get rid of weeds. And I found out there was a place called Goat Island in Illinois that you have to take, it's a farm where there's just like hundreds of goats. And they make them available by the herd? Yes, and you can rent their goats, but they live on this island where they're just

like eating trees and shit. It's a tiny island. So I called the farmer, the Goat Island farmer, and I was like, can I go to this Goat Island and film a video? He was like, yeah, no problem. And I went to the Goat Island in a wedding dress, and I just filmed a bunch of like very video art videos. Of you in the writing dress and the goats.

Yeah, and the goats. And there was like hundreds of goats and they were like smelling my hair, whatever. Yeah. And so then I would show these videos and like be like, do you think this hair is like a butt crack hair? Do you think it's a whatever? And it'd be like trick questions from these goats and I would show these fucking crazy videos of like hundreds of goats and people would be like, whoa, whatever. But at the time, like I was so new to this kind of performance style. Like I did this show that Ian Abramson was hosting

and all this multimedia content was on one MP4 video file that I had memorized the timestamps. Like I was like, oh, this happens at 11 seconds, whatever. And he was like, this could be like a PowerPoint. Like I didn't even, you know what I'm saying? I was like literally being like showing an image knowing that it's gonna be on the projector for 11 seconds, you know what I'm like?

You didn't have the technical know-how. Yeah, so, but that was. This big breakthrough. Yeah, shout out to Ian Amerson being like, this could be on a PowerPoint. You don't have to be, like, and I was being like, you know, I was trying to incorporate crowd work, but it was like timed, whatever it was called.

Wow, so he took a load off of your shoulders. I like, thank you, Ian Abramson. You just cracked it wide open. And now the PowerPoint was the thing. Yeah. Did you try to do straight standup as well? I was, yeah. So you're doing both?

Yeah, I was doing both. That was the beginning of the integration. That was the beginning of the integration. Cause I was like, I don't remember what dawned on me that I could do, like once I started performing in Chicago and there's like, one of my best friends in Chicago is this performer, Alex Grelley, who literally, I'm like, whoever you are, wherever you are,

get on an airplane right now, go to Chicago, see the best live performance you've ever seen in your entire life. What's he do? Just crazy shit. Like, he does this show called The Grellie Duvall Show, inspired by like Shelley Duvall, whatever, fairy tale theater.

And he's like full drag, reenacting, like getting on top of a giant cardboard falcon or a never ending story while singing like the killing moon by Echo and the Bunnymen or whatever. Right. Oh, phone call. It's my mother.

Oh, should we pick up? You want it? Yeah, this'll be good. Hello, hello. Hi mom, everything all right? Yeah, everything's good. How are you mom? I'm good. I was eating dinner. Yeah? What did you eat?

That's good that you're eating. What did I eat? I'm not even sure. But it was edible. Oh good. And you were playing Jeopardy earlier? I was playing Jeopardy and I was playing Blackjack. Wow, it's a big day. You're really out there being social. I was playing Japanese and I was playing Blackjack. Wow, it's a big day.

You're really out there being social. I am, but this is Sunday and Wednesday. I said today is a good day. There's a few things to do. Oh good, well that's good, Mom. I just wanted to check in. I'm in the middle of an interview. Good.

And you're doing okay though, huh? Craig's gonna be away for a week? Oh, well, a month. A month. Yep. All right, well, I'm around if you need me to fly down and do something. Okay, babe.

It's good to know. All right, well, I love you. I'll call you in a couple days. Okay, bye. Bye. Where in Boca? She's in a place, I don you. I'll talk I'll call you in a couple days We're in Boca She's up by she's in a place out of my brother put her I don't know she would know Hollywood. She did Hollywood Florida. Yeah. Yeah, no never Boca. My grandparents were in Boca for years Jews in Hollywood. Yeah Yeah, I mean, you know, they're around I think they they're getting less and less. Right. So this guy, the drag show.

Right, so I just like, my mind is getting blown constantly. And like my friends, I was doing all these shows with these like electronic guys from the record label called like House of Mountain. And they were just like, they would be putting out music from this like band called like Macula Dog that would have like, they would perform with like horse-tails and like go pro

Cameras on their head like unicorn horns that were like projecting onto the wall behind like just doing really out shit So I was so lucky that you found that shit it changed my life because I was I loved comedy for so, forever. But regular stand-up, so like, because I was trying to figure that out today. I was talking to my producer and I was like, you know, I knew there had to be some performance art back there, but like, it seems like inherently you're a song and dance person. Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes. That your chops and your stage habits are very kind of old school.

Yep. Right? I would even say hack. But I don't care about that. I like jokes. No, no, I know. I don't think it's hack. But clearly, you know, the embracing that... Was there ever a point of frustration where you were doing stand-up and you're like, there's got to be more to this? I think that's just when I immediately just started incorporating the other elements that were interesting to me to the point where it's like I've overcomplicated things.

And like, literally, I did, did you ever go to Weirdo9 at Debulon, hosted by Dynasy Handbag? You should, it's the best show in LA. Dynasy Handbag is like the funniest performance artist ever. And when I moved to LA in 2019, I did her show and I've got bells and fucking whistles. I got a costume, I've got visual stuff, I've got jokes, I've got whatever. And she was like, you are enough. You don't have to fucking kill yourself every time you do a goddamn bar show. Yeah.

You know, and I- Another big moment? Yes. So you just could, you didn't have to bring all this stuff? You could bring half of it? I don't have to. Yeah, I can just bring some of it.

I, you know, I'm- When do you start, when does it start getting fluidy? Like, you know, when does the, you know, kind of like, didn't you do some vomit work? It was always, like, and then even my, like, stand-up was always gross and... When did you start using the name Sarah Squirm? I, it was my friend, Ethan Murmelstein,

in high school was calling me that as like a direct, oh, I broke it. You broke what? I broke the key chain. That's okay. Okay. Don't worry about it. It's a lucky, it oh, I broke it. You broke what? I broke the key chain. That's okay. Okay. Don't worry about it. It's a lucky, it's an unlucky eight ball.

It's an eight ball, I'm not sure where that came from. Well, it's an ancient heirloom that I've destroyed. No, it's a little eight ball key chain and it's a cheap little hoop. It's fixable. I'll fix it, I'll fix it. No, no, you don't have to fix it. That'll be the thing that I'm doing

for the rest of the podcast. No, don't do it. So there was always like blood and guts? Yeah, and then I was like, and yeah, meat. And then my friend Ethan would like make fun of me and they would call me Scorman Sherman because I was like gross. But you did it because you got laughs?

And then I like it. Like I've always liked like garbage-pilled kids, running stimpy, and kids like gross. And so I was always kind of like preoccupied with that a little bit. And then I got like, you know, everybody would call me Sarah Squirm, like people would call me Squirm. And then Squirm just like reinforced this like,

and then I just was going on stage as Sarah Squirm because I would do these shows like in Chicago with like, the bill would be like blood liquor and like fucking, you know, like forced into femininity or fire tools and I'd be like, I couldn't just be Sarah Sherman, like lame. So then I was billed as Sarah Squirm and then, be like, I couldn't just be Sarah Sherman. It's lame. So then I was Bill to Sarah Squirm. And then, you know, this show that I was doing,

Hell Trap Nightmare, I'd make these crazy posters like butt hole tampon, whatever, as like a trigger warning because the content of the show itself was kind of grotesque as well. Just to prepare people so they know what they're getting into. But did you ever look at some of those other weirdos that used to do it in New York, like Ron Afty

and those people that were squirting blood everywhere and Karen Finley and all that stuff? I don't know them. Oh, well that was an old generation. Oh, okay, cool. Yeah, yeah, it was like the 70s performance artists. Sure, sure. Like Ann Magnuson, any of those people?

Interesting, because you got like second generation. I mean, I knew about like Carolee Schneeman. Yeah, yeah. People like, I think that actually was a big influence on me. Yeah. There's a girl, a woman who, Reverend Jen, who used to walk around with elf ears on the Lower East Side when I was there.

There's like- Love that. Yeah, she was great. She went on to, I think, write BDSM manuals. Sure, sure, sure. But I'm not a pervert, I'm just gross. No, no, no. But she- Oh, good, that's good.

No, she wasn't that, well, she was a little bit of a pervert. But, so this was all just happening in, these were all those people like your age and around that area and there was a whole scene there that was like its own authentic thing. And it's still, Chicago's amazing. Like I don't understand anyone who comes up

in New York or LA, where it's like employers are watching you, it's like, dude, I was doing these fucking jokes where I was like, I, listen, this isn't funny, dude, I was doing these fucking jokes where I was like, listen, this isn't funny, but I'm just being honest of what I was doing. I would get on stage and be like, men like tall drinks of water, I'm like a tall glass of water,

I'm a tall glass of clam chowder, and then I would just chug a can of clam chowder on stage. And then I don't remember what the joke was. Cold. Cold. Right out there, I would openowder on stage. And it's just like, but, and then I had the, I don't remember what the joke was. Cold? Cold. Cold, right out there. I would open the can on stage, you know, cause I'm not a lot, of course. So then you had diarrhea after that?

Of course. I'm not, but then like something else happened where like, you know, I don't remember what the joke is and I doubt there was a joke really where I had a bag of my own pubes that I was like, I had them on stage, I was passing them around, encouraging people to take some of them. And then something happened. Did they? I had a bag of my own pubes that I was like, I had them on stage, I was passing them around, encouraging people to take some of them,

and then something happened. Did they? Oh, yes, of course, of course. With me, I was like, come on. People were huffing the bag, you get me? Oh yeah, of course. They could be so lucky. Take me out to dinner first.

But then this other comic, fucking Jeff Arcuri, he was like, why are they your real pubes? Can't you use a prop? And it like never occurred to me. I just, I was like, huh, why would I lie? Yeah, now I don't have to wait three months. Yeah, three months. That's what you do. Give me 18 hours and focus. I can regrow. Oh, that's a talent. So there's all these people that were pivotal

in your saving you time and energy. Yeah. PowerPoint. Yeah. Props. You don't need to try so hard. What was that? You're enough.

You're enough. I was like, oh my God. I'll be taking that to therapy twice a week. Use fake pubes. Yeah. These are big moments. Use fake pubes. Yeah. These are big moments. These are, they really are. So what was the response you were like in general

when you do these shows, was it about laughs? You know, it's so like now as someone who's been doing this for long enough, like I can say like, oh, I'm experimenting with the push and pull of the repulsion and attraction, like, you know, people getting grossed out, but then comedy brings you in.

Right, I get it, yeah. So I can say now that's an interesting thing I'm playing with, but at the fucking time, I guess I thought that was fun. I just thought, I think being outrageous is just funny. I just liked was fun. I just thought I think being outrageous is just funny. I just liked being outrageous and also like Once you just start doing stuff like that like I also just was so inspired by the other outrageous people I was like around yeah and like being outrageous would like we were doing these tours where we would like

Go to a show at like a weird Like fucking crack house in Detroit. Yeah. You know, there were more like where there was like a bunch of crust punks and then there was more dogs than people. And my friend Ruby you met, she was on the tour too and she was getting heckled by a man who was on crack heckling her with a large candle. Yeah.

You know, like. What do you mean? How does that work? He just, the floor was dirt and there were dogs and then a man who was not on, with us on this planet just was like going up to her with a giant like Victorian candle and a whole dirt going like ahhh, like holding it up to her face. Oh my god. You know.

So it just like, that was just the journey that I went on. Not a regular road gig. No, but then I start, cause I was like, again, there was this thing of like, I would do shows at the Laugh Factory in Chicago and go on tour with like my comedian friends and then do shows at these weird like punk houses and go on tour with my like weirdo friend.

Yeah. Like, I don't know what, again, there was this thing, like I didn't know so much about marrying them. Right, and now you have. I hope. Well, I mean, how, like, of course you have. Yeah. I mean, I don't know, like, the alt scene in Chicago,

I knew some of those guys, like, were you, well, I guess they're even older than you, aren't they? I told you I'm not a day over looking 28. Like Holmes and Kumail and Hannibal. No, I'm younger. Yeah, yeah, so that, you were the one after them. Yeah, like the open mic that I hosted, I think the lineage of people who hosted it,

it was like Cameron Esposito, and then she passed it off to Lisa Trager. And then Lisa Trager passed it off to Rebecca O'Neill and Sonia Dindy, and then they passed it off to me and Alex Kubit. Oh, so that bunch. Yeah. Okay. Well, so that bunch. Yeah. Okay.

Well, I mean, but when did you start, when you came out here in 2019, Yeah. you were involved, like I have to assume that like Tim and Eric and like, didn't you? Oh my God, yeah. That was like my, I worshiped them. Yeah.

Well, that's funny. So then in Chicago, like I had a bunch of We're O Comedy friends. My friend, Toler Wolf was who was the funniest guy ever, he came from Madison. And so his home club was Comedy on State. And they were doing a weekend, Eric Andre was doing a weekend in Comedy on State.

And so they called my friend Toler, and they were like, come open for Eric, because he's like, Toler's a freak. And Toler was like, Sarah, you should come. You're also a freak. So we took the bus to Madison. And I think Eric thought that we were like local Wisconsin college kids, but we were like 25-year-old

like kind of real comedians from Chicago. So he was so, he was like, after our sets, he was like, who are you? You're on me, who are you? Like he thought we were like 18-year-old, whatever. So he was so he was like after our sets. He was like Like he thought we were like 18 year old anything whatever and so then I met Eric and Eric like changed my life like he brought me and told her on the road with him. Oh, yeah, and I like Travel like I opened for him on this big tour was like a tour bus Yeah, like those are the best shows. Cause they were Eric Andre people. So they were like ripping their fucking faces off,

begging for Eric to dump ranch all over their face. Like it was amazing. And then I, so then I moved in 2019, I moved to LA cause I was gonna go like work with on some Eric Andre show stuff. Yeah. And did you do it? I did it and I loved it.

I love LA. Yeah, but I mean, Eric was a pivotal part of it. He say, he like, I mean, also when you're like a young comedian and like, like your idol is like, you rock dude, come on, let's go. Take some chances. It's crazy. And even Eric, like Eric took me on the road with him

and a lot of my comedy was like really, I mean, my comedy still is like, I'm disgusting, whatever, annoying. Eric would be like, you're so self-deprecating on set cause I would like, I don't even know if it's ADD, or it's just like I'm constantly commenting on anything that happens in the room. Like, you're going to the bathroom,

what number are you doing, like whatever. So I'd be like, I'm bombing, you guys hate this, whatever. And Eric would be like, you're not bombing, so why are you giving people an opportunity to not fucking like you, what's your fucking problem? And it's like a very Jewish, there could be a room full of people, but you only see the one empty seat.

You know what I'm saying? So like- Sure, of course, yeah, or the one person not laughing. Yeah, exactly. So that was just me fully projecting a mental illness on people who just wanted a good time on a weekend, what the fuck, they don't need my fucking baggage. They had a long hard day at the fucking hospital

or wherever they worked, they paid $45 to be there or whatever, plus drinks. They don't need my fucking shit. So Eric was like, why are you saying you're not bombing? You rock. So he like... Did you stop doing it? I think I've stopped doing it like honestly.

Like now I just have like a way to talk about it. As opposed to just like, you hate me. You know, whatever. I try to be less pathetic. So that's good. That's another part of the evolution. Am I talking way too much? No.

You made a coffee that's turned me insane. I know. It's pretty good, right? I make it strong. But, so Eric Andre was the one that kind of made you feel confident in what you do. Yes. Yeah. Well, like, you know, all my friends that I was doing stuff with in

Chicago, like, you know, you're supporting each other and like, like even you were saying, like, open mics stink because it's like, what's a fucking crowd of a bunch of comedians? Yeah, but it's a community. Yeah. Yeah, and like, you know. But it's insulating. Yeah, it is. Right. Yeah. Right. So you're not like, you know, you can all protect each other from the fact that no one gives a fuck what you're doing. Right. Even though everyone's like a fucking, it's like even though everyone's like a fucking, it's like Chicago, someone's like a drunk, so whatever.

So being out into the world of the real show business with this guy who does a specific thing. Like I couldn't believe it, I'm like Eric Andre thinks we're cool? Like what the fuck? Like having a real comedian thinking you're off, I mean and that's another thing, like doing comedy in Chicago,

like real comedians quote unquote would come through and be like, you know. What are you doing, and that's another thing, like doing comedy in Chicago, like real comedians, quote unquote, would come through and be like, you know. What are you doing? Is that what they would be like? Or just like, if you even got one compliment from a real comedian, it would be like life changing. Like I remember like Drew Michael, do you know him? He came to the mic that I was hosting.

From there? Yeah, he's from Chicago and he came back and I was hosting this there. Yeah, he's from Chicago and he came back and I was hosting a mic this mic And he was like you're great Well, I mean when you when you are in the community that you're in which is that you know straddling this punk aesthetic and just stand up You're not like mainstream stand-ups don't, they don't see you in the same way. And that, you know, and that kind of judgment

has got to be kind of pressure. But I'm like, so, like I'm addicted to getting, like I like need to get past at clubs. Like there's just this like, I need that validation that I'm like funny. Because that's the thing with like weird crap, it's like, all right, Is this just fucking weird crap? That's interesting and yeah, but you've established yourself as somebody who has control over it

I mean weird crap has always been there. Yeah, it's usually only one or two per generation of Comics who can do it Do you know like a lot of people use anti-comedy as an excuse to not do regular comedy, right? And but the ones that transcend it and make it work are rare and you're one of them people use anti-comedy as an excuse to not do regular comedy. Right. But the ones that transcend it and make it work are rare, and you're one of them. Well... Like, you know, Nathan Fielder was an alienator. Yeah.

You know, and he's turned out to be kind of a genius. Yes. Yes. And that's the term anti-comedy. Like, I've been, listen, I've been called anti-comedy. No, I know. And I don't believe I would I need it like besides the fact that I would never want to do something not funny

Like I could I could buy I could bought I bomb. I'm a regular old Oppenheim. I'm out there bombing. Yeah, but It's to be all it's funny I'm trying you right and and and anti-comedy like besides fact that it's like, I would hope that what I'm doing, anti-comedy, you know, being called that pisses me off, quite frankly, because I really am trying to make people laugh. Well, I think anti-comedy is, it's not, it's actually a school of thought more than just a criticism. Sure.

Do you know what I mean? It's like, right. Or it's like, I don't think anyone sets out to make anti-comedy. Well, a couple of guys who just- With bad attitudes. Yeah, bad attitudes. Yeah, that's the whole thing. And they can't figure out how to be funny.

And it's like missing the, like, bro, I am fucking Jewish. I have a black, bottomless hole inside of me that needs to hear laughter badly. I've clocked every time that you have not laughed today. You know what I mean? But it's like, I need to, call it anti-comedy, is to negate the mental illness of needing to hear the laughs.

No, no, I think that's what makes you different. I wasn't saying what you were doing with anti-comedy. But you are in the oddball range. Totally. So like when a club is assessing you, especially now, they know that like, well, she knows how to do this. She's a thing. Not like, what the fuck is this person doing?

Right, right, right. It's definitely a thing. Say what you will about me, it's a thing. Totally a thing. It's a Sarah Squirm thing. Yeah. So what, you wanna get passed at the store? Yeah, I wanna be a fucking comedian.

What do you do for 15 minutes? What's your 15 minute set? How much shit do you need to bring on stage? Now, I'm so loving standup that even if you come and pay, please come to the show. Even if you come to the show, I'm having so much fun doing standup that all the bells and whistles get so pushed

towards the end that I forget to even do them. And I cram them all into the last like, you know what I mean? So like- Full circle. Yeah. Yeah. So now when you did,

like because I think on SNL, honestly, that they've let you do you to a degree where they trust your instincts. Yep. And so you're able to write with whoever you're writing with and do Sarah stuff that is still pretty gross, but they know you can pull it off, I have to assume, at this point. Well, SNL was like a real comedy boot camp for real because it's like at the end of the day, I mean everyone could say whatever they want about SNL. At the end of the day,

there's like gotta be jokes. And like even like as much comedy as I was doing, like you know I was talking about like I needed laughs or whatever. It's like for real, everything on the show is like three to four minutes. Like It's like for real, everything on the show is like three to four minutes. Like there's gotta be a joke every couple seconds. So it was a real bootcamp and like, all right, you wanna do some weird fucking shit where you got like fucking meatballs all over your body?

There's gotta be fucking jokes. Like, and it's a real- That's not enough of a joke. No, and that actually, that was, I mean, I can't stop talking. But getting there, I so, I just so didn't know what I was gonna do. I was so wigged out.

I was like, I don't know how I'm gonna do this. Like, whatever. And like, I got there and I met Dan Bola, who like, he wrote there for a couple years, and he like, he's the guy in all the Sandler specials, playing the piano. Like, he called me and was like, what if we did it? I still didn't know what I was doing.

And he was like, let's do a sketch where you're covered in meatballs. And I was like, thank you, thank you. You see me, you get it, you know, you know. And he was like, and there's gonna be jokes. And I'm like, okay, yes. It's not enough to just be weird or whatever. So you figured that out. I didn't, I had a. It's not enough to just be weird or whatever. So you figured that out?

I didn't, I had a lot of help. Yeah. Yes. But it was a relief. It's gotta be a relief when you stop at meatballs and someone goes, how about these jokes? You gotta be like, great. Right. Isn't that amazing?

At the end of the day, there has to be jokes. Right, right. It's a good lesson to learn when you're covered with meatballs or meat or anything. I was covered in meat for a long time. I would literally go to the meat warehouse in downtown Chicago because you could get there's a bucket of pig heads that they give away for free or like five cents and like I would cover my body and like raw meat from that like that they were like getting rid of because it was going rotten, you know, whatever,

for some hilarious video or whatever. And it's like, right, I could have made fake meat. I don't know why it has to be real. Oh my God. You're like the most popular girl in town. But why is it coming through the computer? Because you have to show me how popular you are. The old man.

No, I know that this's a pest control guy. Well, that's fucking great. You know, it's all been sort of like these moments in your life that have helped you define who you are and it kind of helped you arrive at what you're at. And people always just think of like stand up as so, like, oh, it's so lonely, you're in your car, you're on the road, you're in a hotel, like whatever.

It's like the things that have been the most helpful are like other fucking people. Like- I think also with you, you know, because you're specific and the people that get you and wanna see you, it's probably like this community of weirdos that you can kinda trust, right? So when you go on the road,

I'm sure there are people that are wearing a meat hat, that are like, what's going on? You wanna go to this thing? Right, and they're insane and they wanna smell my hair, but I love them. And they can. Well, that's good that it worked out. So you just write mostly with that guy.

What'd you do for your audition? I did stand up about, gross stand stand up about, I did stand up about, about gross stand up. Like I didn't know. Well, in Chicago, I did Improv Olympic. I did I.O. Yeah. It wasn't for me.

It wasn't like I stand up. I found stand up after college for real. And that like, cause you know, I was just trying to be, I was like doing improv, doing, I was just trying to, and then I realized like stand up was for real. Cause like in improv, and that like, cause you know, I was just trying to be, I was like doing improv, doing, I was just trying to, and then I realized like stand up was for real, cause like, in improv they were like, we gotta like,

dress normal and I was like, I'm not gonna do that. And work with other people, yeah. But then, so I think, well I wanna put a pin in that, working with other people, cause SNL's made me realize that that's what life's about. I could be, I am the most difficult person to work with, but it doesn't mean I don't love it.

When I was like 21, I was at I.O. and I like did a showcase for SNL cause Sharna was like, oh, you know, you should do it or whatever and I was like, I don't know, whatever. And I did like a, I thought you had to do like a character showcase. So I did five minutes that were kind of characters. It was like awful, awful.

Yeah. And then I was like, oh yeah, whatever. That's like, I'm not good at this, whatever. And then I was like doing standup, whatever. And then when I was like, I was 28, then they had asked me to showcase again. And I was like, I learned like not to do the fucking, I can't do the fucking character, whatever.

So then I just did my own standup, which is like blue and terrible, whatever. And that worked. And I like, I truly do wonder, like do they remember that the 21 year old? Right, I'm sure he does. It was terrible. It was, cause I thought that's what you had to do.

They wanted to see you again. They knew your name. I don terrible. Cause I thought that's what you had to do. They wanted to see you again. They knew your name. I don't think they knew that that was the same person. Like seven years later. I just ended up, cause I had gotten the JFL new faces. So I was like,

I don't think they knew that was the same person. Oh, that's wild. Yeah. So you just made it, you just did the showcase in Chicago. Yeah, it was like, no, no, Chicago. You didn't go to the studio. I barely made it out of the room. It was terrible.

It was humiliating. Cause I was like, oh, I have to do a character. Hello, I'm a mop. You know, I didn't know, I didn't know. I can't do that. I'm not talented. Like I can't do like a voice. You know what I mean?

I can't do like what I thought. You can't do it on your own volition, but if you were assigned it, you could figure it out. Gun to my fucking head. If you were like, try that, I could figure it out. Do you get the gun to the head a lot at SNL? It's never like made it to air, I don't think. Oh, I did like a Nancy Grace thing.

Oh yeah. Cause that is like, the whole journey of SNL has been like, try these things you've never done before that you have no training or experience and do it on live television in front of people who hate you, millions of people who hate you. Hate you? Well, you know, it's not, like, I'm not, like, amazing. So, like, but it's like-

You are now. Sorta. I'm getting, but it's like, I'm learning. That's all I'm trying to, is learning. And so it's just like, that's what's been so amazing. It's like, you know, they're like, you're in a blonde wig and you're like a woman. And I'm like, okay, all right, figure that out

for four years. You know what I mean? Or like, you know, I'm wig and you're like a woman. And I'm like, okay. All right, figure that out for four years. You know what I mean? Or like, you know, I'm so, now that I've been there long enough and you like get to know the writers, they're like, you know, a writer, Mike DeCenzo is like, all right, you're gonna play Katy Perry. I'm like, and this was something at Table Read.

And I'm like, all right, I'll try, like fucking, I'm never staying in front of people, you know what I'm saying? So I'm like, all right, I'll try fucking being Katy fucking Perry. And I guess it didn't do good enough to leave the table read, but you know, it's just trying stuff. Like, and I feel so grateful because it's like,

when am I, or in life, are you like giving that gift of just like, try it. And like, it's not like I had to try it in my basement and pay for it and like suffer. And it's also good to be put on the spot. Yes, it gets you out of your head Yeah, you don't overthink it until later and that's another thing about us. It's you can't overthink anything. There's no time There's no sleep. Yeah, and you know, obviously there's like shit that can come out of that. That's not amazing Yeah, but it's been like I can be I don't want to call myself a perfectionist because nothing I make is even good.

So it's like perfection. It's like, you know what I'm saying? It's like not, but it's like I can belabor something and be anxious about something and like whatever, whatever. You know, I've been doing standup for 10 years. You'll never see a fucking clip of me on it online You know I'm saying like it's like it's not done He's done. It's not done. It's not finished. You know no one's like sneaking a phone into no one knows that I do stand-up no one on God's green earth knows it what they see you tour

I tore but they don't know what it is. Yeah, well Call it stand-up or whatever right right sure so maybe that's it. Maybe if you start calling it stand up. Or whatever it is. Right, right, sure. Well, maybe that's it. Maybe if you start calling it stand up. I do call it stand up. Okay, good. I'm like, it's that fucking Wise Guys this weekend. What do you think it is? It's not a sermon.

I mean, it is, but. Wise Guys is okay. I love clubs. Yeah, Wise Guys, the one in Salt Lake? Yeah. That's good. I did Vegas a couple weeks ago. I haven't been to their new one. Yeah, that's good. I did Vegas a couple weeks ago I haven't been to their new one. I like their old one. I did the new one Yeah, I like the old one with the in Vegas the one with the low ceilings seats about 200 in the Arts District

But I know that's the one that that's the one I did with Polly Shore on the outside. Oh my god He is on the outside. God bless. Yeah. No, I like that that room. I'll go work out there all the time Well, I am I had gotten put in like- And Keith's a good guy. The guy who owns the place. Yeah. I had been put, like, just because I also had done a lot of stuff with musicians and stuff, I was always like, I wanna do rock rooms. I wanna do theaters.

I don't like rock rooms. I don't like anything besides comedy clubs anymore. Well, and let's say Seatum. They gotta seat them. Seat them. The standing up thing I can't do. Dude, I did like, fucking Central Park, Sun Out, 90 Degrees, opening up for like,

an amazing band that I obviously wanted them to like me. Yeah. You can't win in that situation. It's never, I never learn. I never learn. I do it all the time. I never learn. I never learn. I do it all the time. I never learn. I always think it's gonna be different.

I always think I can convince these people. Yeah. No, it's, you gotta learn. Just so you don't humiliate yourself. I'm fucking 32 and I haven't learned. You got a lot of time. So with, so the collaboration thing, you've learned to do it.

It's life. Yeah. It is, and now like I'll go on the road with my best friend, Jack Bensinger, who's learned to do it. It's life. It is life. And now I'll go on the road with my best friend, Jack Bensinger, who's the funniest person alive. And after all of our sets, we punch each other jokes up. People get weird when you get off stage and then someone gives you a punch up or something.

I'm like, that is- I don't mind it. It's the best. I don't use it all the time. It's a Christmas present. David Spade, I opened for Sandler the first time. I said, I'm talking about my crotch being like a rotten pastrami sandwich or whatever.

It's not funny, but it's evocative. Good setup. And I get off stage and David Spade goes, you got so much old meat in your underwear, you gotta keep a silica packet in there. And I go, thank you, thank you. David Spade just gave me a fucking joke and it's not even fucking Christmas.

But people don't like that. I don't mind it. Chris Rock gave me a tag that I used for this whole tour. I don't think it made the special. But it was like, I would have never gotten it. The setup was funny enough and that's all he was doing. And then he just throws me this line. I'm like, all right.

And even if that line doesn't work, it helps you think of a different direction. But he did. Now he does it work, it just kills. It's one line. I'm like, god damn it. I know. Fuck it.

Fuck him for being so on it. I know. Yeah. I know. Yeah. I know. I think literally the silica packet joke gets probably more laughs than, it's like part of a seven minute bit. Yeah, and that's the big laugh?

Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy. Of course. Those old pros. I know. I like just, can you, like, I even said that just to brag. Yeah. Yeah, David's big. Through your line, through your joke. Yeah. Yeah, Davis Bacon. Yeah through your line through your joke Yeah, well, he's a big fan, isn't he? Yes. I love him

God bless How do your parents feel about your work? They're obsessed. Oh, they are they wear my merch. They do. Yeah. Oh good I was gonna give you that t-shirt, but yeah, you don't want to give it to me anymore I have to go. I thought I pulled it down. I didn't like I you that t-shirt, but, you know, it's up there. You don't wanna give it to me anymore? I have to go, I thought I pulled it down. I didn't, like, I did these t-shirts, I told you about it when we were texting, that I don't know where the idea came from or why I thought it would sell,

but it's just so weird. And I thought, well, maybe you could wear one. I'd easily wear one. Maybe, it just says nerd cock on it. That sounds great, it sounds like a shirt I'd wear. I thought it was such a breakthrough, like, back in the day when alt-comedy was so hot, I thought like now the nerds have the swagger.

So I'm like, I'm just like, just put nerd cock on shirts. And it flew off the shelves. No one bought them. No one. Cowards. It doesn't matter. Everyone's a coward. Even I could. I was embarrassed to wear them. Because then I got to explain it. I'm like, I can't explain it.

I don't even know. It's a vibe. You either get it, you get it, you don't, you don't. Yeah. I just, I couldn't get behind it. I've made many bad attempts at selling merch. Oh my God. I feel like I talked like so crazy a lot.

Isn't this what, that's what it's supposed to be. I know. We talked about me when I was 10, like for so long. It's good though. Okay. You feel all right? Yeah, I was like. You're not gonna fester?

No, I just like, hope I, I'm like, what did I say? It was great. Okay, great. I enjoyed it. I'm turning it off now. Goodbye. See, that was amazing. How great was that to talk to her?

Saturday Night Live is nominated for best scripted variety series at this year's Emmys hang out for a minute folks Slip into a deep restful sleep on a luxurious feeling mattress you can afford Logan and Cove is named Canada's best luxury hybrid mattress. Designed and handcrafted in Canada, it starts at just $7.99. Melt into its plush top cover. Stay comfortable with cooling gel foam. And let supportive coils cradle you to sleep. Try Logan & Cove at home risk-free for 365 nights.

And if you're a listener in Canada, we have an exclusive offer for you. Get a free bedding bundle when you buy now What's better than a well-marbled ribeye sizzling on the barbecue? A well-marbled ribeye sizzling on the barbecue that was carefully selected by an Instacart shopper and delivered to your door. A well-marbled ribeye you ordered without even leaving the kiddie pool. Whatever groceries your summer calls for, Instacart has you covered. Download the Instacart app and enjoy zero dollar delivery fees on your first three orders. Service fees exclusions and terms apply. Instacart. Groceries that over deliver.

Hey people, if you want more stuff from SNL, full Marin subscribers can always listen to the Lorne Stories bonus episode. We posted it last September and it's two hours of interviews with former SNL cast members talking about Lorne. And then I did this sketch I used to do at the Groundlings. There was a song at the end of the sketch where it's about this gold man who panhandles. And basically, it's the guy dressed all in gold, and if you give a dollar or something,

they'll do the robotic movement. And a robber comes and takes his... I hate those guys. The guys that stand still? Yeah. Yeah. So a robber comes, takes all his money, and then he is very sad.

And then somebody, a little kid and the dad said, why is this gold man so sad? Well, I don't know, but if you give him a dollar, maybe he'll tell you, and if you give him two dollars, maybe he'll tell you in song. So the kid puts two dollars in, and I sing this really uplifting song about the tough life of a gold man,

and then at the end, you find out, well, it's because I got a little secret. I saw cock for my face pain. I saw cock for my face pain. And then the rest of the song is just the words, cock and face pain, basically. I saw cock for my face pain. Cock face pain. Cock, cock, cock, cock, cock, face paint basically. That's a cock from my face paint. Cock face paint.

Cock cock cock cock cock face paint. And it's just like cock cock face paint, face paint cock cock cock. It's just like probably 250 times saying the word cock. And I did that at SNL as the final thing. And then I walked out and Lauren was right there and he said, oh, thank you for coming. And I said, I'm sorry about all the cocks.

I didn't know what else to say. I was just like, ah. And then that was it. And then I found out I got the job. I'm sorry about all the cocks. Sorry about all the cocks. To get that episode and new bonus episodes twice a week, subscribe to The Full Marin.

Just go to the link in the episode description and go to WTFPod.com and click on WTF plus. And a reminder before we go, this podcast is hosted by Acast. I'm a little clunky on the guitar, but that's okay. Here. ["WTF Pod"] I'm gonna go ahead and play it. So So So So So So So So Boomer lives, Monkeel Lafond, cat angels everywhere.