WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1663 - Jackson Galaxy

Episode Date: July 24, 2025

It’s about time Jackson Galaxy and Marc met each other. Listeners have recommended Jackson to Marc as a cat behavior expert who can offer helpful advice about Marc’s ongoing cat problems. But it turns out they have a lot more in common than just cats: Youthful rock and roll aspirations, addictive personalities, sober living, and an interest in animal welfare. Jackson tells Marc how he found a new direction in his life that turned him into a cat expert and Marc gets some tips on how to deal with his cat’s aggressive behavior. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hi, I'm Salman Farooqi, personal finance reporter at The Globe and Mail. Housing costs are higher than ever. That's why I write stories that help renters and homeowners make smarter money decisions. If that's journalism you value, head to globeandmail.com slash subscribe. Slip into a deep restful sleep on a luxurious feeling mattress you can afford. Logan & Cove is named Canada's best luxury hybrid mattress. Designed and handcrafted in Canada, it starts at just $7.99. Melt into its plush top cover. Stay comfortable with cooling gel foam and let supportive coils cradle you to sleep. Try Logan & Cove at home risk-free for 365 nights. And if you're a

listener in Canada, we have an exclusive offer for you. Get a free bedding bundle when you buy now at loganandcove.ca slash podcast. Lock the gates! ["What the Fuckers?" by The Bunch plays.] All right, let's do this. How are you what the fuckers? What the fuck buddies?

What the fuck, Nicks? What's happening? I'm Mark Maron. This is my podcast. Welcome to it. How are you? Are you okay? Is everything alright?

I've been talking about this anxiety and just I don't know I Don't know what to tell you anymore. Yeah, you know it just manifests and in weird ways, but God knows my cats Have been part of my life for a long time different sets of cats, and I just can never quite manage to relax around these goddamn cats. And I assume that it's just a projection of my larger inability to feel like I have any sort of control over the world, over my life,

over anything else, I don't know. I just get very, I just want it to, why can't I just have normal relaxing cats ever? So today I talked to Jackson Galaxy. You know, out of need, more than anything else. All right, he's a cat behaviorist. He was the host of the Animal Planet show, My Cat From Hell, and is the author of several books on cats.

And I've been hearing about him for years. You know, people are like, you gotta talk to Jackson. You to talk to Jackson. He'll he'll he'll help you out. You know I want a fucking miracle man Some people are getting on me saying that you know I can't you know the rehows Charles Charlie Beans Roscoe that you know it's my responsibilities my kid someone wrote. He's not he's not your wife He's a kid, but like my kid. Someone wrote, he's not your wife, he's a kid. But like, I just, I'm starting to feel like he would be happier in a single cat home with a lot of people.

He just likes people. Yeah, I know he likes me, he's very attached to me, but he doesn't give a fuck about the other cats. And you know, it's getting violent over here And i'm out in the world doing all this press and doing all this stuff bad guys is opening in august 1st and My special comes out august 1st. They just picked up a stick For another season and i'm like i'm i'm at the edge of a fucking nervous breakdown over here The show this show is ending

A lot of changes i'm sure that's having an effect. I'm sure that, you know, I'm processing that. Or not. At a, you know, a fairly deep level. But I just want some peace in my house. And there's nothing but tension. There's nothing but feline tension. You know, and Charlie is violent. Towards Buster.

Like, you know, I don't know that cats kill each other, but they're both beat up pretty bad. Charlie's got like a, you know, a fucking gouge, a teeth gouge, you know, on his arm. And I feel a little scabs on both of them. And I just want peace in the fucking house, man. I'm just, I'm on edge. And I know like people are like,

dude, they're just cats. You know, know kids like they're just cats, you know, it'll resolve itself. It's not You know, I got it. I guess I got to get more human contact. I don't know but but like in my brain and in my life There's just you know, there's just so much going on so much of it is overwhelming you know so much of it is overwhelming. You know, so much of it is scary. And you just want the cats to be there. I guess if I wanted something to love me unconditionally, I should have got dogs, but they're even more

responsibility. I just can't figure out how to, you know, ease this situation. You want to ease with time. And it's just, I think all my cats Represent a different part of me, you know that again anthropom my Anthropomorphizing maybe projecting I don't know but I think you know Buster is pretty sensitive guy You know kind of avoidant but sensitive and you know wants love and Sam is kind of a doof You know, he doesn't quite know how to receive the love

and I'm not sure he wants it, but occasionally he does and he's awkward and Charlie just, he loves people. Anybody, anybody walks into the house, he loves him. But when I go away, it's just all shit hits the fan. You know, he's not shitting all over the place, but I get back and they get into these fights where Buster is screaming and pissing not shitting all over the place, but I get back and you know they get into these fights where you know Buster is screaming and pissing and shitting and it's like fucking

Nightmare, and I don't know if you people know my history with cats. I imagine some of you do First cat I had was Butch female cat Butchie that was given to me by my second wife before we were married. And I love that kitten. And I moved to LA with that kitten. I drove that kitten in a car with a plant that it liked to sleep on. I had a potted plant in the back because he liked to sleep on it like she gives a shit. And we're staying in hotel rooms and we're going through all that anxiety of driving

a cat across country with a truck that broke down in Pennsylvania an hour and a half outside of New York. Oh God. And we got the cat here and we thought we should get another cat for Butch. And so we went to this shelter and there were all these sad old cats at the shelter and I picked this one orange cat that seemed out of its mind that already had the name Boomer. And I realized now you know in retrospect having dealt with ferals that it was just a feral that ended up at a shelter so very difficult to socialize and he just he became a problem he pissed all over everything when I moved into the house and eventually became an outdoor

cat and eventually fucking disappeared of course very sad when I think about this it's all sad and then there were the alley the alley cats of Astoria Saved a ferret feral litter Meanie hissy Monkey Lafonda the mom got them all fixed had them all in the house They destroyed the house somehow monkey and Lafonda made the cut I gave away the other one the other one ran away. I Live with them for years, and they were half feral. But I remember when Buster came in,

when Buster showed up on the doorstep, few months old, maybe two months, freaked out. I think he was a kitten that got away. I don't think it was a complete feral. But there was a period there when Monkey was ailing, La Fonda was a mean, crazy,, and Lafonda was, Lafonda was a mean, crazy, unpredictable cat, but I loved her, but Monkey was not doing well,

and Buster, as like the same age Charlie, would just try to beat the shit out of him. So I guess it's a thing, but it's very upsetting. Then there was Moxie, who ended up with my ex-wife, who she brought into the fold, very smart cat, that Moxie. I don't know Then there was Moxie who ended up with my ex-wife who she brought into the fold. Very smart cat, that Moxie. I don't know what happened to Moxie. I think Moxie ended up in Seattle.

But you know, Monkey and LaFonda ran their course, got kidney failure and I had to put them down. And then I had just Buster and it was just me and Buster for a while and that was great. And then Kit knew a woman that she worked with who's like, there was a litter at the grandparents or whatever. And then I ended up with a stupid Sammy who was a cute kitten.

And now he's still pretty good cat. He's got his own vibe. And then somehow or another, some feral mother had a bunch of kittens next door over here and was moving them around. And Charlie was under the steps, like two, three weeks old. And I thought like I can change that cat's life and now I have and he's a spoiled little fuck.

But I love him. He's a good guy when he's a good guy, but I just, you know, you can't, there's no way to break up a fucking cat fight and it's just a goddamn nightmare. If they're focused, if Charlie's locked in on Buster and I scare them apart, then he'll just go chase them down again. It's just too much, man.

And on top of that, you know, my brain is shredding. Like I'm really not in a great place mentally or emotionally for a lot of reasons that are probably valid, but nothing I'm unable to compartmentalize and all this shit's raining down on me all at once. And it's like, it's crushing me. I've been here before. I've been through a lot of shit. You all have been through this shit with me.

But God damn it. It's just a drag. But I guess life is like that, right? And my problems as a guy with no kids and a bunch of cats is pretty low on the scale of things to really worry about, but it all fucking, you know, it all adds up. Anyway, this is where I'm at today. Where are you at? I'm alright. I'm spiritually sound I am What am I even saying?

What am I even saying? My brain is on fire Gotta play music later been rehearsing. That's been a pretty good thing. Doing new things when you get to a certain age is a little daunting. And I've been playing guitar a long time and playing with people on and off for the past few years, but never feeling the confidence, always choking on stage.

And I just gotta remember, dude, you gotta put your hours in. So I'm working with a new group of musicians this time and we're actually rehearsing. And we rehearsed last night for a few hours and it felt pretty good just to do that process. But it's just so kind of scary to embark on a creative thing that like, look, I play by myself and it's fine and I'm okay. But you know, just to really do it

and put the songs together and work them and make decisions around them and trying to get my voice so I can sing from my stomach with a certain amount of confidence. It's just, some people, it's just like, well, that sounds like a fun thing to do. You know, it's not. I want it to be fun, but it's not gonna be fun until I feel confident doing it.

It's the same thing when people tell me to, you know, play golf. I mean, come on. I mean, how much do you have to suck before you even get kind of good? So at this age, you got to kind of gauge the amount of time, if it's even possible to get to a place where it's fun because you're good enough at it. I'm at odds with myself and it happens. And I guess it'll pass, but it's been a few weeks, you know, where I'm just consumed with this. I can't get out from under the weight of the anxiety

and the dread. And I was okay for a while, but I also realized today that another thing is like outside of the podcast ending, yeah, I just dumped an hour, 10 minute special. I'd just been working on that. I've been working on that for years, year and a half. And this is that feeling, you're at fucking square one with a new hour and I never know where it's gonna come from.

And I'm just sort of like, is that gonna happen? Oh my God. You know, there's just that I'm just sort of like, is that gonna happen? Oh my god. You know, there's just that part of you that's like, let's just fucking hang it up. Just stop. It usually comes and I'm kind of, you know, I'm doing funny stuff. I'm getting up there and I'll let you know how it goes. I'm okay, man. I'm okay and and hopefully You know this talk with Jackson will will level me off and maybe you can listen to it Maybe you need these kind this kind of help. I don't know but before I I uh bring him on i'll be at the 92nd street y in new york city in conversation with jim gaffigan on thursday July 31st. That's for the premiere. We're going to be premiering a little a day early the the uh

That's for the premiere. We're going to be premiering a day early, the special. So we'll watch the special and then Jim's going to talk to me. That'd be nice to see Jim. You can go to WTFpod.com slash tour for links to tickets. And then August 1st is a big day. That's when my special, Mark Maron Panicked, premieres on HBO, streaming on HBO Max. And that's also the release date for the bad guys 2. Also the season finale of stick is now streaming on Apple TV+. Does it did that just make

you anxious all that stuff? I mean the work is done. Still then there's the wave of anxiety from that. The special dropping. Alright look I'm not gonna drag you guys down. I'll be alright. And it was fun talking to Jackson Galaxy. You can check out his YouTube page and JacksonGalaxy.com and this is me having a chat with the Cat Daddy. Looking for your perfect place to call home? Lethbridge Land is shaping the future of our city with incredible communities like Crossings, Riverstone and Watermark. Each neighbourhood is designed with innovation, passion and responsibility to enrich your life today and strengthen Lethbridge for tomorrow. From vibrant urban hubs to serene, coolly views, there's a community waiting for you.

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offer for you. Get a free bedding bundle when you buy now at loganandcove.ca slash podcast. So yeah, so it's, I guess it's high time we met. Yeah, man. You're on those too. What do you want? I'm on any time. I do a lot of nicotine.

Me too, tons of it. Yeah, I've got, oh yeah. Oh, you got the Zin, I've got breakers. What are the breakers? Oh, the, what? That little dot. Oh yeah, I have, what milligram? As far up as it goes, these are eight.

You do eight breakers? Yeah, is that a lot? Well, look man, I've been a nicotine junkie my whole life and on and off, but mostly on. I haven't smoked cigarettes in years. But these, I was on real snooze for a while from Sweden with the tobacco. But these things seem to be the best thing. And how much of that? Just three.

Wow. I don't know why. I don't know if I've become weak. I was going to say, you want't know if I've become weak. I was gonna say, you wanna see who's the worst addict in this room? So we got that and then we got the gum. Oh, I've tried that, but that does nothing.

How many milligrams is that? That's six. Oh, you got six milligrams done. Oh no, I only get the highest. And so this is eight, I'll probably put a piece of gum in my mouth, except I'm talking. I vape. You vape too?

I do. Oh, so you're hardcore. I like... You vape too? I do. Oh, so you're hardcore, but... I am so hardcore. I just find... Well, I mean, I think, you know, we're both sober, so, right? So that, you know, you're gonna need something. That's what I'm saying.

You know what, you know, in the rooms 20 years on and off. And the mantra is don't fuck with my nicotine or my caffeine and we'll get along just fine, you know? Because I've given up everything else. Yeah, I, you know, I've talked about it before with people that they don't seem to understand. Who was I talking to last night? I mean, I'm coming up on Wow

They next month. They'll be 26 in a row fucking birthday. It's crazy, dude. That's amazing That's great. You're just I think you're just a little younger than me. So, you know, we were at it. I'm 61 59. Yeah, I'll be 62 in September right on and But the nicotine thing I'm just sort of surprised. Because it doesn't, I don't know what it does for you, but it's an interesting drug, because it can go either way. Some people get Jack, some people get Dopey. Like I, if I do a six, you know, I'll, I, you know, I got to sit down.

Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, it doesn't touch me. I mean, I don't really. Yeah, no. It's so funny, because my brain's so fucked up, because now I'm thinking like, I gotta get, I gotta get up there. That's what we're doing. So flicking my brain so fucked up cuz now I'm thinking like I gotta get I gotta get up there

Listen if you would have come said like I got this from Sweden is the 24 I'd be like I'm in well, dude I got some shit upstairs that I got from Kreischer and he got it from who from what's that? Who makes the breakers Lucy? He got it from Lucy I've got a giant tin of about 500 of those really Really? And now I'm gonna give them to you. Thank you. I'll take it. Whatever. I'll take anything. And now, you know, everybody around me is, you know, the thing about all these years

about harm reduction and, you know, the... To yourself. ...the thing is, I would say it out loud normally. The Times just came out with something the other day about heavy metals being in vapes. Oh, really? Yeah, I never did the vapes. I don't want to smoke things. I'll smoke a cigar now and again,

and I've got strung out on those before. I can't. I can't. Look, I started smoking when I was, what, 13. 14, me. Yeah. Why, Keith Richards? Uh... Most likely.

For me, it was Keith Richards. Most likely. Actually, I was thinking back. I was like, was it him? Um, you could take in your pick at that point. Yeah, I mean, look, I was at 13, yeah, because I thought I was gonna be a rock star. Of course, of course. So what, where'd you grow up? New York, New York.

Right in the city? Yeah, I'm from Upper West Side, so that counts. Yeah, so like what was the family situation? Did your dad grow up there? How'd you end up in New York? My dad was a Hungarian immigrant. Really? First generation, yeah.

He escaped during the very brief revolution and a Holocaust survivor. Really? Mm-hmm. And came to New York. You live with a Holocaust survivor thing? I mean, was he in a camp? He was not in a, he was in a work camp.

A work camp. And he had the worst of both worlds because he had the Nazis, then liberated, then he got to be in a Russian camp. Really? Then escaped to Austria and then made his way here. So was he older when he had you? My mom was really young.

My mom was like 19, 20 and then my dad was like 29, 30. Oh really? So he was a kid during the Holocaust. He was. And you know what one of the craziest things is, when someone starts to bring forward memories that they've been like, I can't do this. He was in his 80s, coming up with shit

that would blow your head off. It was awful, awful memories. Was he a fully cognizant in his 80s? Or was it coming out in fragments? No, he was still a, I mean, he was crazy Hungarian. Yeah. And he just, he was a yeller. And he was still, he was right there with it.

Yeah. Oh, that's great. But he, yeah, things about... The thing about the childhood came up? Yeah, man. Like, oh, that's great. But he, things about... Thing about the childhood came up? Yeah, man, like one quick thing. So they grew up in kind of the projects in Budapest, and so there were all the apartment buildings and you have the common area, and there was fighting happening there

in the middle of this building development. And there was a well in the middle of the courtyard. So that's where everybody needed to get water, but there was fighting happening. They would send kids like him out with a bucket because they assumed that they wouldn't shoot the kids. Right. Did they shoot the kids?

They didn't shoot that kid. He made it. But I mean, stories like that, just crazy, crazy stories. And then you're just an American kid going like, I'm going to go down the village. Yeah, totally. I mean, I know, you're just an American kid going like, I'm gonna go down the village. Yeah, totally. I mean, I was, I actually, because I was a big kid. So by the time I was like 14, I was six feet.

And so I was playing clubs in like the West Village. And I played CDs when I was like 16, because nobody was carding me. And what band were you in at 16? I was in my own thing. I was, you know, I started out as like, because of what? This is like mid-70s. So I was in my own thing. I was, you know, I started out as like, because of what? I was, this is like mid-70s.

I was like total singer-songwriter dude. Oh yeah. And then I discovered, you know, when the actual rock and roll thing happened, then I buy a Strat and. So you were in, so it was the mid-70s. So, so CB's was kind of like, you know, New York punk was like happening. Yeah. And by the time I got in there, so that would have been 81.

So, it's a little behind it. Yeah. But it was still, I mean, the scene was really great back then. But we got caught up in this thing where, there was the pay to play thing where they would tell you to come in. The Musicians Union came down on us one time, screaming at us in the street about how we're like ruining New York music because like we were going in there

because they would do that thing where you go in, if you bring in 200 people, you'll get a real gig that pays you money. Yeah. So we played them all. I mean, I played, what was that one, Traxx was the one that, like Traxx was around for a long time. I remember Brownies. Brownies?

That was right on Avenue A, I think. It might have been later. You might have been done with it and gone. I was never one side. We were scared of the Lower East Side. Really? But that's where it was all happening. Yeah, yeah.

Now, by the time I was in college, then, you know, I mean, it was funny. I can remember the day I discovered Sonic Youth, and I was like, oh, well, now I know how to play guitar. Oh, right. So that's what I was missing. You know what I mean Sonic Youth, and I was like, oh, well, now I know how to play guitar. Oh, right. So that's what I was missing. Four strings and one note. Sure. And you invent your own tuning. It was great. But when you were a kid, it was mostly like just you and a guitar.

Yeah. And just solo. Yeah. And then I hooked up with another guitar player in high school. Yeah. He actually became a pretty well-known jazz guitar player, which is when I knew that I would never be a good guitar player in high school. He actually became a pretty well-known jazz guitar player, which is when I knew that I would never be a good guitar player. Yeah, but I struggle with that.

What does good mean? Good means like. What do you mean a virtuoso? Yeah. Like three chords. Like chorus Montgomery kind of shit. Yeah, but I mean, were you trying to do that? I was trying to figure myself out at that point,

but the thing, what it did was it pushed me into being a really good lyricist and inventing tunings. And because, yeah, I mean, before Sonic Youth, it was Joni Mitchell. Joni Mitchell's three tunings. Right? No, but I'm saying in terms of tunings. There's a big gap there for everyone else. Yeah. Distortion. But also, I mean, she led the way with like crazy tunings.

Yeah, I don't fuck with them too much. I've got that Les Paul Jr. tune to open G and the top strings off to do the key thing. The key thing, yeah. But I never, I don't know, man. I've been playing my whole life and I never really played with people, so I kind of kept it a hobby,

but now I've been trying to learn how to play with people. And it's a little. Good luck with that. Well, no, it's okay, but now I've been trying to learn how to play with people, and it's a little. Good luck with that. Well, no, it's okay, but I'm not disciplined. And the idea of repetition, I like things happen now. It's okay if it's sloppy, man, we just gotta own it. But I'm working with some real kind of like, well, we gotta do it on the record in terms of the structure, and I'm like, we do?

I think, I mean, are they real musicians, or are they? Well, they're rock musicians. And I've done, I've done- I'm supposed to be a real musician. Well, I mean, there are people that do the work, you know? Like, and when you're, I'm good enough, but I'm not, I don't play with people all the time, but I know they're behind me.

They'll carry you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, if you're messy, but I kind of wanna, now that I'm kind of easing out of this, I'd like to spend more time playing music, but it's, I don't like to, like, my craft is comedy, and my craft ultimately evolved as a conversationalist. But music has always been my hobby. And once you've got to put the hours in to, you know, to be proficient, you know, in a

real way. Right. At this age, it's sort of like, ah, it's not, it's no fun. I hear you. and to be proficient in a real way. At this age, it's sort of like, ah, it's no fun. I hear you. And for me, it was really weird, because I remember my dad is the one who said it. I was trying to pull, like the top of my show would say, I'm Jackson Galaxy.

I think it was like, musician by night, cat behaviors by day or whatever. The thing is, I was trying to... When was this? That's the top of every show said that. Way back you were Cat Guy? Oh, no, I mean, way back. No, I mean, like when the show started, which was...

Okay, so you were out once you became sort of popular as the Cat Guy. You were like, I'm gonna do some music too. No, I was trying to make it as a musician before that. And my dad was just like, listen, you're gonna have to make a choice at some point. You're either doing one of these things or the other. And somehow that got into my head. And I didn't write another song after the show started.

And so now I'm still looking at, I'm doing the same thing you're doing. I'm looking at my guitars. It's haunting me, you know. Well, see, because I didn't have the dream, they don't haunt me. Oh, that's good. You know, I never aspired to be a pro musician. Oh, I was.

You were all in? All in. From high school? From, time I was nine years old. I picked up a guitar at nine years old. I was like, this is who I am. So when does it start, like, so you're playing out though,

or you're making a living. Did you cut some demos? Did you make a record? I do. You know what the great thing is? What? Thank God it was all before like band camp and all that shit. Because I don't want that music out there.

Yeah. Because I mean, it was good. It's just at this point kind of dated and whatever. But yeah, no, I was living in Boulder for... Wait a minute. So how did you get from New York to Boulder? Oh, it's... So I went to...

When'd you hit the wall? What's that story? I went from... It's like the slow 80s crawl. So I went from New York, I went to college in Ohio. Ohio? Yeah. I went to Overland College.

Oh, that's kind of a groovy school, right? It was totally groovy back then. Yeah. And I was not as rich. And then we went from that, I went to grad school at University of Iowa. That's fancy. For what? Theater.

Really? Yep. Go figure. So what did your old man do? I mean, he did a lot of things that once the Sopranos came out, I was like, oh. Oh. When you know that every birthday present you ever had fell off the back of a truck, you're like, oh.

He's a connected guy? He became that way. I mean, he didn't speak any English when he first got here, but he wound up running a cookie factory. Like, he owned a cookie factory. For the Russians? I don't know who the hell for, but I'm telling you, he didn't know how to bake a cookie to save his life, you know? And, uh...

But was it a legit cookie factory? It was. He actually, like, he provided all the cookies for, like, all those supermarkets up and down the East Coast. Okay. Um, I don't know how it happened. All I know is that he did what... They had that saying about Hungarians that they're like the only people who can get into a revolving door behind you

and come out ahead of you. Oh, interesting. That's him. But so you guys did a write? Yeah, I mean, depended because he was a cash guy. Like, I think he paid for my college with cash. I'm not even kidding. And then some years we didn't know. So I went to Iowa, graduated there. But the theater dream. So you're doing music as a kid. When do drugs get happen?

Yes. I mean, I would say it was not until I was like 15 that I was starting to get hungry and drinking. And I kept it, whatever the word is, until Iowa was when I started to spin out a little bit. And then by the time I got to Boulder, which was after that, then all bets were off. So what'd you learn in theater school? You did two years? How not to wait tables. I had no theater dreams. But you went to graduate theater school? You did two years? How not to wait tables. I didn't, I had no theater dreams.

But you went to graduate theater school. That's because like, honestly, this is how it happened. Like I started in theater because I was writing music for theater and that was fun. So musical kind of, like for musicals? No, no, no, like scoring them. Oh, interesting, okay. I hate musicals.

So I did that and then one day somebody sees me walking across the stage and big whatever, and they grab me and I started doing that. And then... What, acting? Yeah. And then there came this moment where I, you know, some theater teacher in New York and in Oberlin was like, you got what it takes,

we'll prep, you know, auditions so that you can get into grad school. I didn't get in anywhere, but like two weeks before the school year started, a director friend of mine calls me. She's like, I'm in Iowa City right now, which by the way, I didn't even know there was one. And I was like, and she said, we can get, come here and audition. If you get in, free ride and you, and you're a TA and whatever. But they needed people in the program?

Yeah, totally. And so I got in and spent the next three years in Iowa. They got a pretty heady, high brow writers program. Yeah, man. And their playwriting program was amazing. Yeah. That's all actors are in that place. It's just, we're just.

Doing the plays of the guys. We might as well be keys on a typewriter, yeah. Oh, right, right, right. So you were doing a lot of workshopping with, for new playwrights. And then I was, but I was a huge rebel. I decided I wanted to be a performance artist at that point. And we broke away. There's three of us, we broke away from the program and made terribly subversive, terrible art.

Yeah, in Iowa. In Iowa. You didn't take it back to New York or I wanted to like I mean my You know my dream was to be you know part of like the whole scene with like Compton sure and then the mama or at the Worcester group Yeah, the Worcester yeah, man. Those guys were you know, yeah seeing those guys live. Yeah Yeah, the Wooster group, man. Those guys were, you know, seeing those guys live,

was... blew my head apart. Was that guy, the guy that had the theater on St. Mark's, Foreman? You know, he did all that crazy. Yes. And they were all kind of very rapid. There was a lot of things going on. And what was his name? It was like... Richard Foreman.

Yeah, I think it was Richard Foreman. Was it Richard? Yeah, that's crazy, man. And I saw Annie Sprinkle when she was doing a lot of performance art and she would walk around. I saw her too. It was great. When she'd invite the audience to view her cervix with a speculum.

I was there. I saw Annie Sprinkle's cervix. Yeah. She just sat there splayed open at the edge of the stage after the show. She was brilliant. I loved her. She was brilliant. It was great.

And that whole scene was just the most like primal form of expression. And actually when you think about it, it actually did inform the rest of this. Whether it was performance in music or whether it was performance art or the state or whatever, you learn the human condition inside and out. And then applying that to animals for for me, was pretty easy. Really? Yeah. It's just the same thing.

You're just... But when you sort of like... So after you graduate in Iowa, when do you like, you know, hit the wall and stop using? I got sober in Boulder. Yeah. So you go from Iowa to Boulder. For what?

Why Boulder? Well, because Boulder at that point actually had a halfway decent music scene. Sure. And the Fox Theater's in Boulder, which is an amazing. I've played that place, I like it, yeah. God, it's amazing.

It's nice, right size. And it's also, I don't know if you know this, the guy who designed the sound system there, the same guy who did the Dead's Wall of Sound. So the whole stage is lined with subwoofers, and it's truly orgasmic. When you're playing on that stage, you don't even care about the audience, it sounds so good. Yeah, I mean, I feel, did I play the Fox in Boulder,

or is there a Boulder theater? Yeah, Boulder theater too. Yeah. Beautiful place. Yeah, I feel like that's where I usually play. Is that smaller? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

But it's, I mean, honestly, like, the scene there was great, and between that, I was thinking there, Chicago or Austin and Boulder's just. Boulder, and you're in, you know, you're in like mountains, it's pretty. Look, I went there sight unseen. Yeah. I had never seen it.

Were you running? Yes, I was, I was. And I knew that I could probably get away with whatever there. Were your parents concerned? Yeah. Is your mom still around? No, she lost her in 16.

But no, my mom, who I was very close to my mom and she was my world and she was like, you know when you know you hit bottom? Yeah. When your mom, and we're talking, Upper West Side Jewish mother flies to Boulder to sit you down and cut you off? Yeah.

That's when you know that, and I still went on for another year after that. Yeah, yeah. But, you know, I mean, it's as good a place as anywhere to have a breakdown and to get sober, you know? Yeah, for sure. Well, that's interesting. So they're concerned.

How Jewish did you grow up? Oh, in New York, at least, we call them submarine Jews. We're like, you come up for Hanukkah, you come back down again. Like that kind of thing. High holidays. Yeah, totally. Fast if you want to. Yeah, that was it.

But I'd still went to a Jewish day school. Bar Mitzvah? Yeah. Yeah, that was it. But I'd still went to like a Jewish day school. Yeah, Bar Mitzvah? Yeah. I was just telling the story the other day. Me and my brother, my brother's four years younger and at one point, I don't know, I was like... Just the two of you? Yeah, and maybe I was ten.

Yeah. And he was six at the time and we had a serious discussion about it. We'd like, okay, we know what we're gonna say. We go in our parents' room. They're laying in bed and we're like, listen mom, dad, we have to tell you something. We don't believe in God. And my mom doesn't even skip a beat. She goes, that's fine. You're still getting bar mitzvahs. Pete Slauson Yeah, yeah. Of course.

Pete Slauson And that's New York, man. Pete Slauson Yeah. Pete Slauson So, we went through all that and it was, I'm so glad that I grew up there. Pete Slauson Oh, yeah. It's like, you know, everything's there. I envy people. Because, you know, my family's from Jersey, and we ended up in New Mexico, but I had... Wow. All my relatives were in Jersey, so like when I was 14, I'd spend a month at my grandma's,

take the bus in to Port Authority. At 14, just to wander around. And my mom was very much into art, and she was an artist, So anytime there was big openings at MoMA, we'd go. So I always felt very connected to it and loved it. But you do have a resilience when you grow up there. I think that to grow up with that much diversity and that many people around and on top of you, there's a kind of beautiful sort of shell you create. And you know the thing is, you're part of a shell.

Yeah. And that's the thing, it's so weird about New York is that we communicate by yelling. Yeah. Where it can be gruff as hell. Yeah. And yet you feel protected. You're walking down the street,

you don't feel that threat. Totally. Never, and like it's a, I've always noticed that about New York and I've said it before, that like if something's going down, someone's gonna step up and go, what's going on? Yeah, yeah right. That guy's's in trouble does anyone know how to help this guy right and it it's dealt with yeah and and they could be saying like what was the thing someone said that like the difference between like

New Yorkers and Angelino's is like the difference between nice and kind like you know here if like you fall on the street somebody stops their car are you okay then they keep driving and in New, they pick you up while they're showing you a klutz and an asshole. Yeah, right. But they make people step up in New York. And I always appreciated that. And I never felt safer anywhere else in New York. Because there's always someone right there. And you doesn't... My most favorite thing is just to get lost in New York.

Yeah. Just to just walk. You don't know where you're going. Sure. And you know, it was weird last time I was home. I had one of those moments. I was having a weird moment in my life. I just walked and I wound up near the trade center area. Yeah. You hadn't... Oh, yeah. You hadn't seen the memorial?

I hadn't seen the memorial, and I hadn't seen any of the development. Yeah. All of the houses and stupid shops and whatever. It's just the whole thing is unrecognizable. If you would have dropped me there, I never would have known I was in New York. Yeah. That memorial is pretty heavy. I think they did a good job with that.

Totally. I mean, it's kind of devastating. It's powerful. And the new Whitney's stunning over on the water. It's great space. And all those like little, have you seen, oh God, what was the name of the something island? The looks like a Dr. Seuss island. Oh, Roosevelt Island. No, no, no.

On the other side. That's the last thing from Dr. Seuss. No, no, it's off the west side and it's called Something Island and it looks like... Oh, it's like an art piece. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I've seen that. It's off the west side and it's called Something Island and it looks like- Oh, it's like an art piece. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's amazing. It was such a great place.

Look, if I could have afforded it, I would have gone back and lived there. So you get to Boulder and now, in order to get sober, as we know, if you follow the rules, you have to put that first above anything else. Now, was the move to Boulder sort of like a bottom and you're like, I've hit the wall? No, I mean, I wasn't even aware that I was in a bottom until, to be completely transparent, like I went to my first meeting

because I was trying to get laid and she was like, okay, but I just want you to come to a meeting to see how I live. And I went and then they had the check boxes in the back with like the pamphlet, am I just want you to come to a meeting to see how I live. And I went and they had the check boxes in the back with like the pamphlet, am I an alcoholic? And every single one of them except I hadn't gone to jail, and that was it. And then you start to realize that you got a problem. So it wasn't, I was in Boulder for 10 years. Did that person help you get sober?

Yes and no. I mean, she did, but she also was kind of crazy. So, I mean... Because a woman got me sober. I mean, it was helpful. Because I wanted her. There you go. Oh, we share that story. That's cool. Yeah. And she brought me in and I held on. I was married, unhappy, left my wife, latched onto her and burned it down, because you're not capable of fucking anything.

And that's the thing. And my first sponsor was like, you can't make her your higher power. That's not who your higher power is. Or just use them to, you know, I understand that idea, but I don't know that I understood the notion of a higher power. I just, you know, you just lean on them too much. Then all of a sudden your codependency comes out and you just exhaust them with your fucking insanity. And then he really gets over it, you know? I mean, codependency and, you know, adult child business, it's like those are the heavy ones.

I mean, I'm still working through that. I mean, I'm almost 60 years old. Oh, I can't. I'm fucked up, too. I mean, but I think that there's something to be said about saying that, you know, you're this overgrown child or whatever, I'm okay with that.

Yeah. It sometimes excludes you from making grownup decisions, which I am learning, but. Yeah, I'm a childless man, I'm 61, you know. And I've been married twice and still no kids. And like, there's definitely something not resolved or fixed. Right, right.

But I think it becomes, the effort is like, try not to be a toxic fuck and don't hurt other people. Totally, yeah. Control yourself. I mean, as I get older and, you know, with the program and stuff and whatever I learned in it, like, I don't go a lot, but it definitely fixed my brain in a lot of ways. Yeah, totally. And same thing. I mean, I don't, I have periods where I go, I need program, I need to be in program before

something happens. Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's the thing is you've made it 26 years. I mean, I seem to break at 10 years. Every time I have 10 years, I break. And so now I've got, I'm just back to what, a year. Oh really, how long were you out for? One night.

Oh, fuck dude. It was a hell of a night. It was a long, crazy thought I was for? One night. Oh, fuck, dude. It was a hell of a night. It was a long, crazy thought I was gonna die night. Yeah, not worth it. No, man, it was the first time that I was like, cognizant of the fact that, wait a minute, this isn't really, really high and good, I'm gonna die. Oh yeah, right away, right?

Yeah, I totally. Would you have an hour of good and then just some dying? I had, the second it hit me, I was like, okay, I'm gonna die. You know? Oh yeah, right away, right? Yeah, I totally... Would you have an hour of good and then just some dying? I had the second it hit me, I was like, I, okay, I'm in trouble. You know? In good times. And so yeah, no, I mean, I, but it's always there. It doesn't go anywhere. Yeah, I don't know.

Like, I don't feel compelled. You know, the weird thing is, is like, if I feel compelled towards anything, I was sort of a Coke booze guy. But the only thing that is mildly compelling is I get older, it's like, there's so much weed around. I know. You know, I was just saying that you go to the thing about avoiding New York in the summer is because it smelled like piss.

Now it just smells like piss and weed. It's weed is everywhere. And here you just go to the store and you just buy this weed that like when we were kids that would have cost $300 for a bud that looked like that. In Iowa we were picking it out, it was ditch weed. We were picking it out and like all seeds and nothing else. And like I am actually glad because there's so, it's such a consumer culture now and I will buy things.

I know, I know. I know, I know. I just, I can't go anywhere near that stuff. No, no. I don't think about it. I've been working around booze my whole life. So when you're in Boulder, so you get sober the first time? Yeah.

How do cats figure into this? Did you give up the other dream? No. I was there as a musician and that means that I was broke all the time. And so I'd worked a bunch of awful shitty jobs. And after the fifth awful shitty job, I saw an ad for an actual shitty job at the shelter, which was like picking up shit, and jumped on it. And it was within weeks, literally weeks,

that like all of a sudden everyone was like, you know, the cats like you. And they would, I would just stand there and they would just come to me. I would eat my lunch, they would come up to me. They started calling me Catboy even though I knew nothing. And I figured I should probably learn something. Um, especially since we were in a really desperate place back then. I mean, we were killing 10 to 12 million cats and dogs every year at that point.

Yeah, except when I met my girlfriend, you know, she was at work in the shelter here. She's a big animal person. And it just, her heart couldn't take it. She works here at... No, now she's at a doggy daycare, but she was at, she was at Pasadena, she was at Best Friends for a while. Oh, cool. She was, you know, I mean, she was, she's an animal welfare person.

Right. Right now she's got, you know, two kittens, she was, she's an animal welfare person. Right. Right now she's got, you know, two kittens from a feral litter down the hall and she's got three of her own cats and now she's got a dog and it's kind of crazy over there. But she lives for it. Mm-hmm. And, but the shelter became too heartbreaking.

Yeah. I mean, I don't know how I made it as long as I did. I mean, I was at that shelter for 10 years. Yeah. And what'd you learn? When you said you wanted to learn, how'd you start? I mean, look, there was nothing.

To be completely honest, it's still that way where the- In terms of cat behavior- In caps of, no, just cats, period. And I mean, outside of their bones and their organs, but I mean, we spend all our time on dogs. We spend all of our knowledge and wanting to know around dogs. And so, they're really, in terms of writing, me just getting a grip on, all I cared about was this. I get a cat that comes into the shelter,

they're scared or they're aggressive or whatever, we're gonna kill them in about two hours. What is it that I can do in the next two hours that will keep her alive till tomorrow so that I can keep something else going so that I can eventually get her adopted? That's all I'm gonna do. So the deal was when you get a feral cat

or like any cat, you knew that they were unadoptable because they were not socialized. I knew because we were the ones who had to kill them. So I knew if I couldn't put them on the adoption floor, and we were... What determined that? If we couldn't put them on adoption?

In terms of... Either they were, like, if you know that that cat is going to sit in that cage for months because they're not going to face their audience. They're not gonna come out, they're not gonna take those three steps to the front of the cage. They're just gonna hang out in the back. So that was reason enough back then.

And if they were, you know, there's two sides of the same coin, they're both sort of cat anxiety. One goes all the way back, one comes forward and tries to kick your ass every time you go through. Both of those ends of the spectrum would be plenty of reasons. So, the scared ones, assuming they weren't feral cats, back then we were doing stuff that now is sort of codified, we call it TNR now, back then it was like, you're feral, I'm putting you back out there.

You don't belong here. You're a trap and release, you mean? Right. But back then it didn't have a name. It was called me stealing cats and putting them out in the trailer park. Right, yeah. There's that. They were neutered though.

Yeah. We got them neutered. Well, yeah, no, you gotta do that. When my first batch of cats, you know, I had a, you know, a lot of my radio voice was sort of developed around my journey with these feral litter from behind my apartment in Queens.

Right. Because I didn't know they were feral. And, you know, once they're eating on their own, you know, it's game over in a lot of ways. So I trapped like four of them and brought them into my apartment with a shoe box. Holy shit. And they just destroyed my apartment. And then it just became this whole journey.

Like they just destroyed it and they were howling at their mother in the window. And like, I didn't know what to do. Cause then like I couldn't get them out like I didn't know what to do because then like I couldn't get them out because they didn't know where to go. And just became this like journey with these four monsters. And you know, I was reaching out to cat people to get them fixed and to get their shots. And this was in New York. It was in New York in an apartment in Astoria. And I was on the mics for at Air America and I was just having...

Oh, right. I forgot about that. Yeah, and I was having to deal with this. And you know, I didn't know, like I grew up with animals my whole life and I think at that point, had I had, did I have a butch yet? I think I had already lost like I had a cat, my first cat was given to me by that woman who got me sober who I was involved with and that had a congenital heart problem. I'd moved out here in 2021, and it died less than two years old. It was terrible. And we got another cat, Boomer, who came with that name from a no-kill shelter. But I thought he had the most personality in the shelter, but it turns out now I know he's feral.

Yeah. That's personality. Yeah. So, I had him for years, but but this was a different batch and it just got very crazy You know, like I tried to find you know, I got them all fixed and I gave one to the bodega or the the little store Across the street. They wanted a mouser, but it just disappeared immediately because it was crazy feral Yeah, and then one some person took another one, but I had two of those cats for 16 years. Holy cow.

Did they ever tame up for you? A bit. You know, I think they did, but they're just a little twitchy. But I've grown to realize that because I'm not innately, I think, genetically a regular cat person, I'm kind of a brash. And I would always wonder, like, why are my cats always nervous and fucked up? Because I'm talking to them like, what's going on?

Yeah, yeah. But I mean, they're also feral cats. And I think it was something that we still, I mean, people struggle with this constantly now in terms of like who is who and who should be outside and who shouldn't be outside and all that. But back then it was just, it was really guerrilla work. I mean, back then.

So, I mean, we're talking, what, 93, 94? So you're learning tricks? Mm-hmm. And also just trusting myself. I mean, this is where it came into me saying, I know how to watch people, make a world with these people and live in it. Yeah.

And you can do the same thing with animals. And I had that head start that the cats liked me. And from there, it was just, you know, what can I do that's going to just make them braver? You know? And started working with a dog trainer, because I had nobody else. Um...

At the shelter? She was a trainer who came to work in the shelter, you know? And I was like, listen, you gotta teach me something because I got nothing. And she taught me clicker training. For cats? Yeah, yeah.

How does that work? It's the same as dogs. But it's just a- What is clicker training? So clicker training is like the way a lot of dogs, or most at this point, are trained. So it's the idea that they do something you want them to do.

The click signals that something good's gonna come, which is usually a treat. And then it's like a Pavlovian thing, pretty much after that. It actually came from, first it was pioneered with chickens and also carrier pigeons during the wars, spy pigeons. And then this woman, Karen Pryor, started using it at SeaWorld with the dolphins. And then it went to dogs and then finally cats. You can do that with cats? You can do it with anybody. You can do it with us.

I mean, we're motivated to do something. We all learn the same way, you know? So with the cats, it was, you know, I had a really good treat. I wouldn't feed them for a little bit, so they were a little motivated. And then teach them that taking the step is a good thing to do. Turn around, it's a good thing to do. The story that I always tell people is that the first one of them, I got her done within, I don't know, an hour where she goes from her head to the back of the cage, head to the front of the cage,

three steps to the front of the cage, hand through the bars to do a high five through the cage. So then when the adoption area opens and people come in, she's like trying to high five people. First sucker's like, oh my God, she loves me, she wants me, she's calling to me, and that was it. You know? You got her home. Got her home. And then it just became like, I think god, she loves me, she wants me, she's calling to me, and that was it. You know?

You got her home. Got her home. And then it just became like, I think I had the advantage that I got to write my own book, literally, because I just didn't have, you know, strict rules to have to break. So there was no, because look, I've had, you know, Kat've had cats, another girlfriend of mine was a painter, she managed an entire feral community that she moved from one place to a new place. And they just kind of came and wanted to say they wanted to and some of them were more social than others.

And she taught me some stuff, I guess. But I've had cats a long time and it's all kind of instinctual, but now I've got, you know, these issues. Like most of my cats kind of level off and they're all right. I don't, you know, like I didn't know that in order to get them to be kind of warm, you got to kind of put them on your lap and get them used to it. I mean, and it depends. And I think one of the things that I love about cats so much is that

the rules only apply so much. Yeah. I mean, whatever. There is, they, in an evolutionary perspective and to this day, make a choice every day how much they want to engage. Yeah. You know, they are self-domesticated. We didn't do it.

So it's like in terms of our relationship to them, to me it's a whatever works kind of thing. Sure. I mean obviously they're energetically incredibly sensitive so they don't go for the like, and they're not gonna take orders no matter what. You know what I mean? You could yell all day, you could say sit all day,

it's never gonna work. Well, a lot of people are surprised that my cats know their names. I guess some people have a problem with that, but all my cats know their names. Yeah, and your guys seem just like, they are totally centered and present and out and about. I told you, I've got three cats too

that you would never know exist when you first come over to the house. But I just don't believe in, like, if you're a lap cat, you're a lap cat. If you're a, like, I'm gonna hang up by your toes at the end of the bed, I will be just as, you know, honored, you know? Pete Slauson Yeah. Jared Slauson I just don't want you being scared and small and under the bed. Pete Slauson Yeah. Jared Slauson That's my only thing.

Pete Slauson Oh, yeah. I've never really, I don't think I've had a cat like that until they get fragile. But like, Charlie, who is the current problem, and all my cats, like Buster in my old house, he just showed up and started eating the food I was feeding the ferals outside. And he was like maybe two and a half months old. But he wasn't really feral. I feel like somebody got him as a kitten, and then he got away and was out there for

a bit. But then he ate some plant. I knew about the... He ate a bouquet of plants when he was a year or so old and went into renal failure. There wasn't lilies in the bouquet, but I think there must have been the pollens, but I, you know, at that time I'm like, what kind of idiot is gonna spend 10 grand on a cat? And there I was with this year old kitten. Yep. You know, saving him at the emergency vet.

Yep. And now he's like nine and I think he's only got one functioning kidney, I found out really. Yeah. I was wondered, but he's all right. Yeah, he seems. Well, you didn't meet him yet. Oh, he's the one who's the older one. Yeah. Then Charlie, the problem...

He's great. He is great. He's great. But he's from a feral litter from next door. Is he? Yeah, and she was moving him around. But he's the same thing. He's completely like people- Well, I got him like, they all ended up under my steps back here with the mother, and she was moving them again.

And she had moved them all except for him, and she's probably coming back from, but I got him at like two and a half weeks, and my girlfriend, you know, bottle fed him. And now that's what I got. You know what, I tell you- Spoil breath, spoil. And I also, and I say this because I think that there's people in like the sort of more educated community who would like say I'm completely full of shit. But I, bottle babies, and he's a bottle baby, they have completely, they are so much more

human than they are cat. Kind of, right? And he is that. Yeah. He's a bottle baby. Yeah. Did he do the thing where he holds on to you or her, just or her like just like he needs to be touching he needs to be near you guys Well, he I like there was a bit of that and then Sam the kind of dim one

he came from a litter that she a friend of hers had you know knew you know, it was a I don't think it was a feral litter But he wasn't wild either and he he always looked nervous, and then he kind of turned into this very odd cat. That's the weird thing about cats is like, they're only gonna be who they are. Who they are, right. And then you're gonna have to just deal with that. You make them the best version, you know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah. That's it. You gotta figure out who, but here was the thing is that Buster was alone with me for a while because Monkey and LaFonda had passed the ferals from Queens. And he used to beat up on Monkey when Monkey was sick, you know, because he was this little kitten. And then when I brought Sammy in before Charlie, Buster just beat the shit out of him, just made

him a total punk. And so, like, they're like this gay couple, and Sammy's just totally all about Buster. Yeah. He owns him. Yeah. And then I bring Charlie in and Buster doesn't want to even deal with it. What makes Charlie an asshole? Because he does, you know, he likes to start shit. You know, I've got that catio out there and if I'm going to close it, he'll jump out there

and he won't come in just to to fuck with me right right but the bigger problem is he's a interesting cat because during the day he does a sing you know and then you know but he's pretty independent of the other cats too but at night he'll always sleep with me and he'll get up in my face and everything that's the thing that's the bottle baby yeah yeah he'll like you know fuck with my face yeah but then during the day he's like you know Just you know, you stay you're in your place. Oh, yeah You know, but he's always in my shit. Here's the problem with Charlie and it's it's it's a real problem Cuz I'm like problem with Charlie. Yeah, I'm locked in

with these cats is When I go away You know, he's gotten aggressive towards Buster, so there's three males in there. And my vet says that's weird because they usually all get along, but this is not what's happening. You know, Buster, you know, Charlie is outside of those two, and there's always a little spatting between them, but when I go away, he'll fucking, he'll shit, he shit all over the house once, and he beats up on Buster to the point where I get home and they're scared, there's hissing, and it's just a fucking nightmare. And, you know, the vet was like,

well, I usually prescribe Prozac. So I tried that, but I couldn't take it. I couldn't, like, I don't like Prozac for me. And when I put Charlie on it, he just like turned into a different thing. Yeah. And I stuck with it for like two weeks. I can't do it to him. Well, I mean, I think, first of all, there's a place for psych meds with cats 100% as much as there is for humans. There's that. But with him, I mean, all he had to do was say like half of that and I'm like, oh, I know what's going on, you know? And so he— Separation anxiety.

Totally. Yeah. I mean, you just leave and he loses his center. Yeah. And then he spends the rest of his time trying to find it. And things like shitting on the floor, for instance, is I'm gonna leave a mark here because I need proof that I exist. You know what I mean? Well, he gets, like he was getting colitis, so it was just like diarrhea everywhere. Poor guy. Yeah, that's just stress.

And that's not, and I think you, you know, not, I'm not throwing shade on anybody, but I mean, that's not what you would use Prozac for. And I think we start to throw around psych meds because we just got to figure out how to get cats to live with us. But it makes them different cat. Yeah. And that's the thing. I mean, ideally it shouldn't.

I mean, the cats that I recommend medication for are mentally suffering, you know what I mean? Oh, no, he's definitely. For real mentally suffering. And he just, he's, he is yours. Just my cat, yeah. And I mean, do you have a sitter who comes over? Yeah, she comes over, you know, and feeds them and they know her and she'll play with them and stuff. But the thing is like, I've tried a lot of stuff,

and usually he kind of loses it three or four days in, and he starts beating up on Buster, which he does anyways. But I think I've been able to manage his shit problem with a probiotic, calming probiotic that I gave him before, and now I got him on Zilkene, which I don't know if it really works. I've got Thelways all over the fucking house. Those don't really work. They don't work. And now we've got the music going. I've got a timer, cause I'm preparing to go away.

Was that jazz that was happening there? No, it's like new classical, so it's more ambient thing. And I don't know. It's like, I don't want to know George Winston shit in my house. Yeah, too much, make me too anxious. But I did get, I don't know. It's like, I don't want to know George Winston shit in my head. Yeah, yeah, too much. Make me too anxious. But, but I did get, you know, I did have her give me a script for Gabba Penton. And I'm just going to tell the sitter to like, look, if he really starts to fucking, you know, if Buster, if there's hissing and it's like really fucked up,

you know, just give him that in the morning. I mean, I think that, when are you leaving? Uh, Sunday. Oh, that's about to happen. Okay. Just give him that in the morning. I mean, I think that when you leaving Sunday oh It's about to happen. Okay, but I was just away and now I've been home for a few weeks Mm-hmm, and they're they're they're totally fine. And I I think I I seem to know what's going on Yeah, I'm informed and I was gonna bring him with me But then I'll but then it's like, you know, whether I drive or whether I have to walk him through fucking security, I've done all that shit before. And then bring him to a

new environment. You got to take him out to TSA and all that. Oh, God, dude, I did a whole bit on that with the old cats because I was I never traveled and that was the Pharaoh one. Yeah. And I know my god, you had to travel with them. TSA like Yeah, I had to get him out here. And one of them, LaFonda, was a fucking monster.

I mean, she was like a scary cat. And just to get her in the cage, I had to wear gloves, or she was going to fuck me up. And now I'm like a TSA. And I didn't know the first time I did. They're like, you got to take her out and walk her through. I'm like, you guys don't even fucking know. This cat is fucking nuts.

We're all in trouble. And it was almost like I scared all of them. The TSA, everyone was like, just stand back, you know, and like I got her out. And I didn't realize all she wanted, all they wanted is to get back in the box. So like she was like freaked out and I got her through and I got her in the box. It was fine. So lucky. What if you heard horror stories? You know, yeah. I mean, didn't you hear about the cat who wound up in the bowels of Kennedy for like, what, like three years? Because it got away from someone walking?

I don't know if it happened during TSA, but it was just the cat wound up just in the bowels. That shit happens all the time because all that had to happen while you were online was somebody behind you sneezes, makes a big noise. Yeah, and she's gone. And she would have gone. She would have been gone. Now what people don't know is that you can actually request a room.

You know, I heard that somewhere. Yeah, I figured that out a couple years ago too. But I think that there's stuff, I would tell you that like, look, if you gotta do it this time, you gotta do it this time. But there's things that I think that you can do to pass, it all depends on the person who stays here when you're not here. Yeah.

Does she stay here? Well, sometimes, but I mean, usually it's just for a while, you know, and she works at the Humane Society, I mean, she knows these cats, and she'll try to tire them out a little bit and play with them and, you know. Here's the test I would say is that if she stays over, when she stays over, does he raise hell or not? Right. If he doesn't, then we know what's going on.

What? It's just... He just, like I was telling you about the bottle baby thing, he gets his center from human energy. And so without it, he's trying to make the rules. You know what I mean? It suddenly turns into Lord of the Flies in his head because he just doesn't, he needs structure that's dictated by you guys.

And I'm not dismissing your actual relationship, but I do think that if you have routine, she picks up that routine, hand the baton, she does exactly that, you just try that for a couple of days, and it works, then at least we know. And all he needs is somebody living here and he doesn't need a petting. Right, interesting.

Yeah, I mean, I think that there's, it's amazing. Because I figured that was it. I didn't know how the territorialism worked, but the idea that if he's anchored to humans and then all of a sudden he's like, you know, I'm the guy now. And I'm just going to like, you know. Like if you think about the fact that like cats, you know, they define their well-being by, you know, how satisfied the raw cat is in the back, you know, the ancestor is in the back of their head.

And ownership of territory is all of it. Yeah. So, you are telling these guys, and especially him, I own it. Your kingdom too, but I totally own it. Yeah. And he gets, he feels okay with that. You leave and all of a sudden, I call it cat Napoleon syndrome,

where I don't own anything, I'm freaked Napoleon syndrome, where I don't own anything. I'm freaked the fuck out because I don't own anything. I'm gonna overown anything. I'm gonna beat you up three times, even though you said, Uncle, I'm going to crap here, pee here, keep the barbarians at the gate, you know what I mean? I got a job to do here, you know? And that's why I think that socially, I think it would help him. Because I mean, I meet him and he seems totally cool. Oh, no

Friendly as hell. Yeah comes up. He wants to do all over. Yeah. Yeah great. Yeah but I that's the thing I mean, it's the paradox of like You know, I I do say thank God for for meds meds are great meds have saved so many lives. Yeah, and And at the same time, then we cross over to this place where we're like, well, I want you to fit into my world, so I'm going to medicate you. Yeah, I can't do that. I tried it with him, but I could feel that it was almost like he knew he was being fucked with.

Yes. And there's that other thing. When we give cats things that sort of sedate them a little bit. Their historical job is to be on the job. Yeah, so they're pushing back. Put them off to one side, they're going to fight twice as hard to get back. Yeah, and be mad at you. Yeah. Or you meaning anything. Yeah, and it becomes impossible to give them medicine.

But yeah, I felt that this was probably, I kinda had a sense that this was the issue. And I imagine if I drove him out, it's a long drive, but I imagine within a day, he'd just be happy that I was there. I think he seems to me to be a great travel cat. Have you ever tried to train anyone to a harness before? No.

Oh, that'd be great for him. What, like a walking, like a walk him. What, like a walking harness? Yeah, like a walking harness, yeah. And then, you know, that way, first of all, whenever you take him out of TSA, you've got total control over him. But the other thing is that like, he just seems like someone who would want to explore, but with you. Huh.

And uh... Sammy's like, the dumb one seems to be the more adventurous spirit out of all of them. Like the one that I can't figure out. Like if I accidentally leave the door open, he's like, he doesn't bolt, but he'll just wander out. He won't run. But he's always the one that's sort of like, all right, so what's going on?

I'm not dumb, it's an open door. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was on the porch. I took him to the vet the other day, and it was kind of a shit show, you know, getting there. But once, unlike the other two, who were kind of skittish, you know, out of theirish, you know, out of their element, you know, once he got in the examination room, he was like, no, this

is okay. That's great. I mean, you can tell you guys are well adjusted. I think that your experience of having to compromise with a feral being for all those years taught you that you have no control. You know, it's all a complete illusion. You are powerless. You are powerless over cats. And you know, other things in life. But that's why I think for me, like, cats still hold, like, this beauty and this reverence for me,

because I will never have them figured out. And they refuse to be. And I think that that's one of the most beautiful things on the planet. And what's interesting about cats is they're all so fucking different. Yeah. It's fucking crazy, dude. Yeah. I mean, I've had, what now?

I've had... I've had Butch, I've had Boomer, I had Moxie for a while, then I had LaFonda and Monkey. And now we've got these three. Like, they're all different. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they're all like, they're hasn't, and I say this about all animals. I mean, I got five dogs too, and I had chickens in the house and all that. I learn so much from them.

I mean, they force you to be humble. Like there's no room for hubris in the world of cats. And there's just, you will get your shoe shit on if you try to do that stuff. Charlie, like when he's fucking stressed or he gets the vibe that I'm splitting, he has, for some reason he likes to pee in sinks. So I have to cover the sinks.

But like he'll literally, I saw him get into a frying pan while he was looking at me and pissing it. Yeah, that's some stress, man. That's hard. I mean, I have one of my guys will pee in the suitcase. You leave the suitcase open, they know what that means, and they just pee in the suitcase. Got to London, I was flying to London. Oh, you didn't know and all no and all of a sudden I'm like now

I know that can't be on my clothes, you know You have that like that little whip of something and I know there's no cats in this hotel room Yeah, and you crack that thing open and it's like now you're running down to pry mark for suitcases before you have to leave Yeah, so they made sure I knew they were still with me I well so I guess I gotta just figure it out. Because I get so stressed when I'm waiting to hear back from who's watching. I'm like, what happened? Yeah, no.

I mean, I think there's some easy things I think that we can do to just make him make it better. The other guys aren't like that. No. Because they have each other. They do. You know what he would like? What?

He would like a kitten. That's what Kit says. And I'm like, they're not gonna fool me. She's right. But if you think about the other way around, it's a whole lot better to get his stuff out than a laser toy. It's an actual live thing that he can go to town on and they'd be like, okay, what else?

What else you got? As opposed to the other guys who are like, back off, I don't want you anywhere near me. Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, I think he would love a kitten. And between me and your girlfriend, like within 20 minutes, we can have a kitten here. No, she's got one.

Oh, that's right, she has one. There's one that's unclaimed right now. Right now? I know. Oh my God, but you're gonna be gone for a bit. A week. That's nothing. No, I know. Oh my God. But you're gonna be gone for a bit. A week. That's nothing.

No, I know. How old is the kitten? The kitten's like, I think the kitten's like two and a half months. Perfect. And by the time you get back, it's almost four months. These guys age fast. So by four months old, they have no agenda.

They have no territorial bone to pick with anybody. He just wants to have fun. And I'm telling you, trust me. Oh, you're gonna be like—you're calling me up. You'll be like, take a fucking kitten. I got a kitten for you. But, I mean, and especially right now. I mean, we're having such a rough summer.

Really? Oh, yeah. I mean, kitten season is always rough, but LA is its own brand of... It must be insane here, because in New York you have the winter, and you'd see ferals and like if after the winter you see them again, you're like, holy shit, good job. Good job. How do you made it? Where the fuck were you?

It is great. There's great rescue. There's great organizations throughout the country that help out. I mean, and that's all I'm doing now. I mean now that that I have the time to devote back to it. Yeah I'm just back to being a shelter guy. So it you get a real view of what the sort of the national condition is Yeah, now is not a great time. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like everyone's scared about their own self Yeah, and and then you're like what I got animals to yeah

But it seems to be like, if you're that person, I know it keeps my girlfriend sane. Yeah, totally. It keeps me sane. That animal welfare is a pretty pure form of service. Yeah, true, it really is. And I think that we, post-pandemic, animal welfare went back like 10, 20 years,

and we're climbing out again. Yeah. And so for people like me who grew up in the system, you get a lot of PTSD from it because all you have to do is walk away from a shelter where you were in charge of both life and death and you come back into that, that is not something that you wanna be a part of. But I also, I'm aware of the fact that I now have this sort of, whatever it is, standing or whatever it is, and that I can do a lot with it. And I'm happy as hell to do it. I love shelter animals, but I love shelter people and rescue people. And they're my sort of tribe

and I feel like there's like a karmic debt that I'll be paying off. But yeah, I mean, I think right now, it's one of those moments where, depending on where you live, and LA is just one of those places where, it's actually worse for dogs right now than it is for cats. Yeah, it's pretty bad for dogs.

So what is the most common problem that you encounter with people and cats? I mean, I don't think I'd have a job without, you know, pee. You know, I mean, pee will drive humans to very rash decisions very quickly. And blood will do the same thing. So it's like those hyper, you know, cartoon cat-like behaviors that I think keep me in people's heads. But also introducing cats, I think that that's something that arguments among cats seems to be something that people

are always bringing me in for. Yeah. In fact, it was really funny. And I don't know, don't ask me why I did this, but early on, whenever, I don't Google myself ever, but if you did, like when the show first started and you type my name, you know how it finishes the thing. Yeah. And it was like, Jackson Galaxy Gay. And I was like, okay, well, we'll take that for...

Now it's a little more regular. Now you get to Jackson Galaxy introductions. Yeah. So that I think has become more of a thankfully people are more concerned with their cats introductions. Yeah. Introductions, blood and guts, pee and poop. Yeah. That pretty much keeps me, you know. But I think the cool thing is, I think one of the coolest things is that Gen Z wise, men are the thing now. In terms of spending money on cats, the male demographic is going up. Really? The new young generation? Isn't that amazing?

What is Gen Z? How old are they? I mean, they're in their, the ones who, they're all coming to me, they treat me like they're cat grandpa, which is good and bad. And, but yeah, early 20s, new 20s. And they are, it's amazing because, you know, that masculine thing that rejects all things feline,

they're crossing that border, which is so great for rescue also. Yeah. Like, we have a new audience who are going to get cats, and I think that's amazing because we're breaking that stereotype. Yeah. So that's great. Oh, that's good to hear. Yeah, because I think I'm against a grain as far as a cat guy, and I definitely speak

out for them. And I bust on dogs a little bit, even though I grew up with many. But I do find that it takes a certain person to deal with the cat's independence. And for me, it's perfect, because dogs with my life would be too high maintenance. But now I've got Charlie, so whatever. I think it's basically, do you want to be obeyed or do you just want to live together? I think that's the thing that it comes down to. Cats are just not for you if you want to be obeyed.

Yeah, I can't. And I think it's, but I think, I know I'm being very blue sky and idealistic right now, but I think in terms of the human condition, if we are getting to a point, especially the males of the species, where we can accept the mysteries of the world a little bit better and not think that we can actually work this straight to show, that's a really good thing. Yeah. You know? And good thing, you know? Yeah. And that's kind of what I feel is there.

Oh good. Waiting. Well that's good. Hopefully. I'll decide on a kitten later. You mean tomorrow? For me. I'm not gonna leave you alone.

I'm gonna be stressed. Oh, it's gonna be great. I'm sure you have four of them. Ah, it's gonna be great. Yeah? Yeah, man, I promise. It's to be great. Yeah? Yeah, man. I promise. It's going to be amazing.

You didn't know you were in for this, huh? You think I was just going to fix some peeing problem? Well, yeah, I've had peeing problems. I think I've dealt with almost everything that cats can dish out, really. But you know what we're dealing with now, though, and this is the only thing about getting a kitten, is that it's hard to look at a kitten and not think of your own mortality at our age. Oh yeah, that's true.

That's a tough one. That's gonna outlive ya. Yeah. Yeah. That one's rough. When you have to start making like living wills and shit because you first like cats. Yeah, because I mean, yeah.

How many more kittens am I gonna bring in my life? I'll foster them. Yeah. I don't need to be reminded every time I look at them. Yeah, that they're gonna live for maybe 20 years. Yeah. And what do we got? I don't know.

Yeah, I know, I know, dude. But yeah, no, I think the kitten's a great idea. All right, buddy. Well, it was good talking to you. It was great talking to you. Thanks for doing it. I'm so happy to finally be here. ["The Kitten's A Great Idea"]

There you go. I think that was helpful. You can check out Jackson's YouTube page and JacksonGalaxy.com. Hang out for a minute, folks. Slip into a deep restful sleep on a luxurious feeling mattress you can afford. Logan & Cove is named Canada's best luxury hybrid mattress. Designed and handcrafted in Canada, it starts at just $7.99. Melt into its plush top cover. Stay comfortable with cooling gel foam. And let supportive coils cradle you to sleep. Try Logan & Cove at home risk free for 365 nights. And if you're a

listener in Canada, we have an exclusive offer for you. Get a free bedding bundle when you buy now at loganandcove.ca slash podcast. Hi, I'm Salman Farooqi, personal finance reporter at The Globe and Mail. Housing costs are higher than ever. That's why I write stories that help renters and homeowners make smarter money decisions. If that's journalism you value, head to globeandmail.com slash subscribe. Hey, listen, on Monday I talk with director Ari Aster and for full merit subscribers,

I did a Mark on Movies bonus episode about all of Ari's films, Hereditary, Midsommar, Bo Is Afraid, and Eddington. There is something about, you know, the, because I'm going through it now, the executing, the full arc of anxiety fantasies. And I think that in doing that in Bo, you know, I don't even know if you necessarily disarm them,

but you can sort of splay out the kind of, you know, renegade, malignant imagination of an anxiety-ridden brain. Yeah, it was like if you, like you take those imaginary things that people catastrophize and make them all real, right, so like he has this situation where he has to run out of the house, right? Cause he feels like he's going to die from the medicine he just took and he has no water.

So he runs over and he's trying to get the water. And while he's getting the water, the entire neighborhood goes into his house to party. No real, no real reason, but they just get in there having a party. And then he has to sleep on the fire escape while they're in there. Like all of that stuff is presented in the movie as though it's really happening, even

though it like feels to us like, well, this must all be metaphorical, right? This didn't actually happen to a dude. I think what it is, is that maybe, and I'll ask him, the experiment was to sort of like in any given moment of anxiety about something your mind is generating, why not just go for it? And illustrate all of them. What is the worst thing that can happen? What if someone breaks into my house?

What if many people breaks into my house? What if they start spray painting and partying in my house? How will I get them out of there? Where am I gonna? What if when I take a bath, there's a guy hanging above the bath? Yeah. It's like, yeah. I think it was a sort of a kind of poetic meditation

on the horrors of anxiety. Yes, to get that episode and every bonus episode we do twice a week, subscribe to the full Marin. Just go to the link in the episode description or go to WTFPod.com and click on WTF+. And a reminder before we go this podcast is hosted by Acast. I just did some sloppy groove. Here you go. So So So So So I'm gonna go ahead and turn itonda Cat Angels everywhere.