WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1674 - Tim Heidecker

Episode Date: September 1, 2025

Despite his two previous appearances on WTF, Tim Heidecker was not someone Marc felt truly comfortable around. In fact, Marc was intimidated by Tim. But as they’ve gotten older and connected over common interests, both Tim and Marc can now fully enjoy each other’s company. Meeting in the garage one more time, they talk about their shared pursuit of playing more live music on stage, their insecurities that crop up when making movies, and their lamentations about the regression of comedy and why they are compelled to take swings at the culprits of this reactionary culture.  Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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WTF. All right. Okay. Yeah, let's do it. Lock the game. All right. Let's do this. How are you?

What the fuck buddies? What the fuck Knicks? What's happening? I'm Mark Maren. This is my podcast. Welcome to it. How are you doing? The first episode of WTF was posted 16 years ago today, 16 years ago today, 16 years.

And I remember at the beginning of this show, when we were doing it in the old garage, when I'd moved it to Island Park, and it was still just a garage. there was just clutter in there and a table in my MacBook and these big clunky microphones. I have measured my life through Shore SM7 and SM58 microphones. That is really the truth. You know, T.S. Eliot may have done it with coffee spoons, but for me, it's been SM7s, SM 58s, on stage, and in my garage. But there at the beginning, it was totally new. I remember at the beginning where I thought ads would diminish what we were doing.

I don't really ever call myself punk rock and I don't see myself as punk rock, but I do remember it was a big adjustment for me to actually start doing ads on the show. That it was never, I guess, my intention to make money. I just wanted to do this thing that not many people were doing and it was all new. And I thought ads would clutter it up. And I made an exception for just coffee. and I made an exception for Adam and Eve because they seemed like scrappy companies

but obviously over time it became clear that not unlike other broadcasts that you know ads were going to generate revenue we tried a lot of different ways to generate revenue but I do remember not only was it a big concession for me personally on some level

to do ads but also that I did not want to be seen as an interviewer I didn't want to make sure people knew I was a comic and it was my the first few years of this show were fraught with me realizing that the show's kind of impact was about me having conversations with people and it was just, I just was like, but I'm a comic. And that's really where the monologues came from. I knew they didn't have to be funny.

But at the beginning, I was going to try to be funny every time. But then I realized it's a much broader kind of outlet or medium for me to explore who I am. I have measured my life through this microphone and through the microphone. and through the microphones I use on stage in a very real way. It's all there. Some days I think I should check back in with it. I mean, when I think about those early episodes, when I think that we have done, however many we have done 1,600,

oh my God, where are we at now, 1600 and what? What is it? Episode 1673 last week. So this is 1674. and to look at the fucking guest list is I can't believe it because my memories are just relative to those moments and just like anybody else 16 years ago and to think that I've gone through you know three cats have passed one was taken away by an ex one was taken away by coyotes I had to put down a stray cat that was sick another feral cat died under my old house another one was hit by a car another pharaoh was hit by a car out in front of the house the death black cat who many of you remember from the old days he was he was taken away by coyotes you know i've gone through several different relationships i've gone through people

passing i've gone through guest passing i've gone through my own turmoil professionally and personally and it's it's crazy it's crazy when i look at this It's an alphabetical order on the site under WTF people. I mean, it's fucking nuts. I got to be honest with you. Some of these people I don't remember talking to. And that's sort of sad because Brendan's the guy, Brendan McDonald, he remembers a lot of them because he spends a lot more time with him.

I listen to the only time I hear these episodes is when I'm doing them. And it's crazy. I mean, I'm just looking at just strange ones. I mean, I'm looking at this list. I can't even reel off names because there are just so many. I'm looking at Alan Alda.

Oh, yeah. Alan Ruck. Alan Berski. Albert Brooks. I, the Daniels. Danny Boyle. I can't. What?

Jed Mayhew from the zigzags. Jeff Baina, rest in peace. Bridges, Mark Rebo, the guitar player, Margo Price, who I still kind of follow on Instagram. Oh, Rosie Perez, Roy Wood Jr. Sally Kellerman, rest in peace. Sally Struthers. Wow. Sam Elliott. Well, that didn't go well. Mary Mac. What's Mary Mac up to? Oh, my God. Matt McCarthy. I can't believe this. Jim Short, rest in peace. Oh, boy. Jimmy Walker. Crazy. I I just, Michael Chickles, Michael Douglas. I cannot believe this list of people, people.

I cannot. Drew Carey, Duff, Dylan Moran. Oh, Ed Krasnick, I just saw him in the Sopranos. What's, wonder what he's up to. I can't, it's all, it hasn't flown by, but it is kind of crazy. You know, my commitment to this thing. and with such an urgency, which is such a focus

that I think a lot of, what I have is it must be some sort of, you know, PTSD because that's 673, 73, 74 episodes, every one of which I experienced some sort of mild to deep panic going into them, and I was fully engaged in all of them. I've never been able to autopilot. And I have to assume that,

that's not trauma, but it is a lot of energy and a lot of output. And I remember when we moved out of the old house and moved into this place, just the panic of getting the sound right in this place. And now people come over and they're like, is this where Obama was? I have to say no, but that is the chair he sat in. And sometimes I'll take people upstairs into the office in my house, which is really where all of the original artifacts, and books and everything that cluttered the old garage reside now.

And I have to be honest with you, that room, which I don't spend enough time in, is a magic room in my house. There's a piece there that I don't know if it's because of the house or because of the history or if I'm going to get mystical because of whatever may have happened in that room. But I've grown to believe that it's probably because everything that really is the history, of that show, the original bookshelves, the books, the Chotchkes, the bits and pieces of ephemera that were cluttering in a fairly organized way, the old garage are all up there. And I guess when I want to feel the weight and depth and kind of beauty of the history of

this show, it's up there now. And sometimes I sit in there and it's almost meditative. It's almost like a kind of peace comes over me of something, you know, that was important to me and very deep to me, but also very deep to everybody else who listened to it. It's kind of crazy because time is garbage now and attention is garbage now. And our sense of time has been completely fractured by the gift of technology that we hold in our hands or sit in front of all day. I really think it's kind of fucked with it. But I do find that in these moments of quiet, that time is, the past is hard to reckon

with because all you have, you know, or bits and pieces of memories and moments that get rearranged and reinterpreted and embellished in your mind. But again, I do know that if need be, if I need to check in with me, me, I can go back 16 years and start there and just listen to the life I've measured through sure SM7 microphones here in front of these sound waves. And across from 1,670-some-odd people over the period of 16 years, it's all there. It's all in sequence, not my mind, but in the world. Yeah, heavy business. Today, Tim Heideker is on the show. He's been on a couple times, once by himself, once with Eric Werheim. And he's softened. I found him very kind of

intimidating in some weird way, because I never knew whether or not he was fucking with me. But he's sort of settled into himself. He's a nicer guy. He has a weekly streaming show called office hours as well as the on cinema show he does with Greg Turkington um my next show at Largo with the band is on Wednesday September 10th go to WTFpod.com slash tour for tickets this episode is sponsored by better help and help can come from a lot of places think about all the people you turn to for advice or to work through some problems your hairdresser someone working on your house a cab driver people across from me on the microphone I'm sure a lot of you

listen to this show for that reason. You get some new perspectives from the guests or from the problems I'm talking about. These are all normal ways to make it through the day, but when you need real help about relationships or anxiety or other clinical issues, guidance from a licensed therapist is the way to go, and you can find the right one with better help. A lot of times I think I can just talk my way through my issues on these mics, and sure, sometimes I can, but I also know when I'm really stuck, and that's when I seek out a therapist. If you're feeling that way, better Help is right at your fingertips. They have therapists who work according to a strict code of conduct and are fully licensed in the U.S. As the largest online therapy provider in the

world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. Find the one with BetterHelp. WTF listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com slash WTF. That's BetterHELP.com slash WTF. So Tim Hydecker is here. you can go to official officehours.com to check out all the ways to watch and listen to office hours live and go to tim heideker.com for links to everything else he does. He's an interesting guy. And I, and as I said before, he's a nicer guy. This is me talking to Tim Heideker. Looking for a community that has it all, welcome to Crossings, the urban hub of West Lethbridge. At Crossings, you'll find a vibrant village designed for living, working, and living.

connecting. With top-notch schools, a state-of-the-art rec center, retail spaces, and parks, it's more than a neighborhood, it's a lifestyle. Enjoy NHL-size arenas and aquatic center, an accessible playground, a 55-acre sports park, pathways, and a library with enriching programs. Learn more at crossingslethbridge.ca.com. You're going to knock down all the walls? I don't know. I'm very, a little claustrophobic, to be honest with you. Well, it's all movable.

You're really not that locked in. I'm okay. If you needed to scream running out of here. You could knock all this stuff. Now, you know what I'm nervous about is my ice and my coffee. Yeah, well, that's going to be a Brendan problem. And, you know, he'll probably be annoyed it. I mean, if this is going to be the last one, I'd hate it to be so full of it.

Well, between us. Not the very last one, but maybe between us. Really? Well, I mean, in terms of you being on here? Well, yes. It'll be my last appearance. Is your third time, probably? Yeah, once with Eric.

Runs, do you remember Eric? Here we go. I forgot to bring my... Your shield? Yeah. You remember Eric. Yeah, once with him and then once for that odd movie that you're in. Yeah.

Do I remember the comedy? Yeah. What was it called again? The comedy. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It was a disturbing movie. Yeah.

It was a lot of good ones are. Yeah. Yeah, I haven't watched it in a while, but I'm this. Are you able to watch yourself? I don't get as much. I don't really enjoy it when I'm not in control of it. Oh, in terms of watching yourself? Yeah.

Like if it's our stuff, it's fun. Yeah. Because you guys know what you're going for. Yeah. With other people, they just use you how they will. Yeah. Cut out the good moments. Yeah.

And I'm, I mean, you maybe feel this way. You get older and you start seeing yourself as an older person. And you see that you see it on camera. But you're looking good. I mean, do you have that? That's what I was fishing for. Yeah. Well, I mean, what?

You're not that old. I mean, I'm fucking old. I'm 27. Oh, so you are getting up there. I'm going to be 50 in February. Yeah. Which is kind of weird to me. You lost weight.

You leaned up. You look healthy. Thank you. I mean, I'm going to be 62. too. And even if I'm lean and I'm healthy, there's some things you can't stop. Yes. You're not really there yet. Like, I can see you without teeth.

That's a definite possibility. My gums are not great. I did see a look at a picture of me with you from when I was in here. Oh, yeah. I can't. It's hard, right? We both look good. Well, I look very noticeably puffier. Pudgy? Yeah. Were you drunky?

No, I wasn't drunky. Just eating. Yeah. And it's all, it's come. I lost weight. It's coming back. I don't know what to do. The weight's coming back? Oh, yeah. Well, there's a lot of options for celebrities like you.

You know what, Mark, when I got, I lost weight. Yeah. And that's all anyone's say. Yeah. And it's just, I'm here to say I wasn't using any of that stuff. I would have. You weren't that heavy to where you would need to. I feel like people who do that are heavy, heavy.

I guess. Maybe. I don't know. I never got the credit for doing the hard work. Oh, we'll give it to you now. Yeah, thank you. Let's celebrate Tim's. work on the on doing his weight loss organically yeah why is it coming back you're drifting you're

not working out you eating shitty i don't know i don't know i got to do i got to i got to i think i got the thing you plateau don't you is that the thing you plateau and then i did give up on the thing a little bit i guess you plateau i i don't know i stopped doing the shot i mean not the the uh what you say yeah if i just outed myself the shot i was going to joke that i accidentally no But it's all a lie. You've been shooting up since it first came out. Yeah, I've been using needles, but not... Not ozambic?

Not ozambic? Just aspirin. Straight heroin. Straight heroin. So a couple things I'm curious about, I guess. What are you going to do on this? I guess. If I have to be...

By the way, let me say yesterday you wrote me to ask to come in. And it was... I don't believe in. spiritual stuff but that morning I was watching my friend made a documentary about Gallagher oh god and so I was watching this documentary am I in there yeah you are I hope you use the footage he used the audio yeah that's all there is yeah I hope sure I'm sure yeah they're going through the proper channels I don't know I haven't heard from them but but uh sorry we just it's great document I mean yeah but anyways it was does it show him in a good light uh it's a

full picture yeah yeah it's the whole story And so some of it is, yes. I tried to do that, but it just went sideways. I know right away. Went sideways immediately. Who doesn't want to play state fairs? It was great. And I let the best line maybe in podcast history is Gallagher.

Yeah, not, what was it? Come on, Gallagher. Come on, Gallagher. Now, now I know what you're trying to do. Yeah, it's a legendary moment. Sorry to interrupt. No, it's okay. So, somewhat curious.

Are you, you're going to start building a new. set? I saw an ad that you're workshopping something. Oh my God. I really stepped in it. I just said, well, this is dumb, but I, yeah, I was going to try to do a couple, some new things at the Elysian, and they said, what do you want to call it?

And I just said, I don't know, like I'm working it out. That's kind of a, yeah, that's kind of an expression, right? Yeah. But that's Barbiglia's podcast. Oh, it's called Working It Out. Yeah, I called my last tour All In, and that's Chris Hayes' show. Oh, that's right. You can't copyright these things. No, no. I'm having them change it to working on it, which I'm sure somebody else's podcast.

Working on, I'm sure, yeah. But what are you going to do? I don't know. I've been going out and doing things. I go out and I have some jokes. I have some PowerPoint presentation, you kind of things. You do PowerPoint? Some keynote-y, yeah, I guess I use keynote, but it's PowerPoint.

Do you, but do you actually do keynotes? Yeah. You do? Yeah. Like you're asked to, would you come speak at this thing? Oh, no, not like that. No, not in a real way. I just use the tool as like to show, to like kind of walk through something.

In a funny way. In a funny way. Yeah. But what I've been doing, one of the things I do is I collect YouTube comments. Yeah. And I find, I did go down deep into the bowels of, you know. On your show? Well, no, not just not like, you know, if you find like a Simon and Garfunkel video.

Right. And just the conversations that happened in the bowels of those comments are fascinating. Yeah. Why? Because they become personal. They get argumentative and... About the nature of I am a rock. Yeah, exactly.

What does it really mean? What was the one that I loved, which was, it was an interview with Paul Simon. Do you talk to Paul Simon? No, I never did. He was talking to Howard Stern, and they had clipped out one of the videos, and it was like why they broke up. Yeah. And it's a great story, if you don't know it. It's just like a very hard time for him.

and there's a lot of dimensions to it. Yeah. And someone underneath said, LOL, because no one cared anymore. Well, that's not. That's just, what? But those are just, I always wonder, like, I still can't really tell the difference

between what a bot is and what a bot means. Right. You know, does a bot just turn out a variety of AI-generated U-Cucks? Right. Or? Yeah, I don't know what the, how it works. What the game is,

like what the benefits are. But just general faceless, you know, kind of trolling, I always try to picture like, what kind of fuck would just sit there and decide to, like,

I'm going to do this. Yeah. I'm going to say this. Well, I want to gather, I want to like get them together in a convention and just check in with them.

Sure. Are you guys doing all right? Let them do it out loud. Yeah. You know, say something and then just pick on somebody. Yeah. You,

random guy number seven. Yeah. Or like if I announced a show somebody would put like, the snore emoji. All right. Well, what? What's the problem?

But it's a kind of expression of what? Like, I still don't know. I feel like I understand people to some degree. Yeah. And that, you know, I act in pretty good faith. And I do, some part of me still believes that people are inherently decent, but that I don't know that that's true anymore. Yeah.

But I really don't know how somebody. surrenders their identity completely for, you know, a hateful position. Yeah. And it happens to people in, you know, that you know, kind of. Sure. And it's just like these people are just, you know, out there just, you know, spewing garbage that's hurtful constantly. And I also love the ignorance.

I don't get it. I don't understand this. Oh, yeah. I don't know who you are. Yeah, no one cares. Yeah. Yeah, I like that one. No one.

I'm speaking for everyone. For everybody. Yeah. No one cares. Yeah. But why does it bother us? Does it bother you? Well, I sound bitter if I say it bothers me.

Well, I think it's interesting. Like you say, it's interesting, like you say, it's interesting to look at the human condition. Well, it's just shitty that we've had to adapt. We've had to build this callous. Yeah. Because if you're going to engage with that shit and, you know, whether you're doing it compulsively or not, if you're just going to browse through the comments. Yeah.

Someone's going to say something hurtful. It does hurt for a second. And then you just have to be like, well, that's just part of life. Right. I'm not going to respond. But it's a new part of life. I feel like we're not trained or conditioned for it because you and I or everybody I know in the arts. A lot of people are very disciplined about not caring or not even looking at that stuff.

But we, this is kind of a version of what we grew up wanting to do. Yeah. is to entertain or to amuse and to perform for people. And now there's a way, a mechanism to see what people think of you. Yeah. And we want to see. It's fun to see that. Yeah, but you've got to sort it out.

Yes. And then once you become labeled as something, an enemy of certain people, then it's a whole other game. Of course. And I've become an enemy for a lot of people for a long time. When did it shift, though? Like, was there, because it feels like Tim and Eric was a specific thing for a specific audience. And whatever pushback you got for whatever reason had to be pretty ridiculous. Sure, yeah.

I mean, it was ignored or it was, you know, back in those days, the adult swim audience definitely had what you would then recognize as sort of a four chan-y kind of. Oh, it did. Yeah. But before it became toxic? Yeah. Well, it was toxic. But it was just a personal base, not politically based. Yeah.

I mean. Before Pepe the Frog? Yeah, a little, yes. Before Pepeper. Yeah. I remember, like, seeing the initial reactions to our first show, and it was full of just these F words, these guys, they hope they die of AIDS. Really?

Yeah, like right away. Yeah. So that was the language used around us from the beginning. So that was gamer nerd anger. Yeah, I guess so. Yeah. And I imagine, you know, there, a lot of your fans lived in that world. I guess so, yeah.

And we also made, I think the other thing was, I think we did, eventually we, those people also became fans of ours. Or sort of the nihilistic, you know, troll type folks. But nihilism, they probably liked you. That's what I mean. Yeah, they did. And I felt that way. There's times where I feel that way, too, you know. But when I became, I guess, when I became kind of more politically outspoken,

I think those people saw me as like a betrayal of, you know. But also, that was their new game. You know, they were radicalized. I heard you say that. The gamification of this stuff is very real. Yeah, right. They were kind of radicalized by that guy with the Greek-sounding name. Maya, Mayo.

Yeah, yeah. What's it? Mayo. Milo. Milo. Yeah, by him and Bannon. And then, you know, they just began to approach political speak as a troll game. Yes, and I saw it coming a little bit. And then, oh, that summer of 2000. Was that post Tim and Eric? It was. Well, 2016 would have been a little post Tim and Eric. But, yeah, I think, I mean, Eric and I've always kind of done stuff. But we were past our prime a little bit in 2016. How's he doing?

He's good. Yeah? He's like a... Food guy. Well, now he's like a plant guy. Oh, he's plants now. No. And food and everything.

But at first I didn't understand. You're doing a bit. Come on, you're doing a bit. What is this now? And... But he's an artist. He really is. And it's like when you see his...

What he's actually doing with it? With plants. With plants. Oh, interesting. Yeah. I mean, they're just like, you know, what would you call it? Landscape design. Yeah.

thing. Really? So he's out there doing that for people? In a way you could not believe. Really? What I can understand. But we're still, yeah, like he gets hired I think he's building a business to, I mean, to do landscaping, to do bio, plant

design. Yeah. Whatever it's called. As far as I can tell. Nick Krolls-Royf works with plants. There you go. But that's specifically for art, it seems. Yeah. No, you know, it seems, again, And I thought, like, okay, what is this?

And then I could see, I went over to see what he's doing. And I'm like, again, he's just, he's got an artist's eye. Yeah. And he's, I think, um, antsy. Yeah. So he moves from one thing to another a little bit. And this is a thing that he's doing. And it's, uh, I'm impressed by it.

But it's innocuous and organic. You know, no one's going to be like, you fucking hack. Yeah, exactly. Nice work with the bushes. Yeah. And he always like knows what he's talking about, too. So he's talking, tell me about these Australian elms that he is. And it's just like, wow, you're really passionate about it.

And I have to respect that. But when can we meet for lunch to talk about a movie? A movie, you know, where people are throwing up and there's a lot of fluids and stuff. So we still have the flame to do that. What would you do if you did a new Tim and Eric movie? Oh, well, we have a couple of ideas. Yeah. But probably something in the horror-horee.

horror-e. Seems like horror is a new place for real artists to work. They get, they get funded, you know? Because you can kind of like go in the back door. Right. I mean, I think like Lynch, David Lynch kind of played in that world too. Yeah, yeah. Because you're like, well, this is actually, it's like a horror mystery, but I'm also going to make it, I'm just going to play around. Yeah. Do whatever you want. Yeah. If you hit certain beats that they think they can sell to that audience. And that happens all the time. All these great young directors are doing horror because they have total freedom. And we did it, we did a show 10 years ago now. called bedtime stories, which was like horror movies in short form.

So I think that would be what we would do. That's exciting. Yeah. Yeah. Now, okay, so let's talk about this, you know, because I have been embarking on a bit of music. Yes. And I do okay with it.

Yeah. But you seem, huh? You got guitars and amps. Well, no, but it took me a lot to play out and to, you know, I finally found a group of musicians that have time to rehearse. Yeah. So I'm getting a little more confidence. with that.

Yeah. But I would never think about touring or you're doing it very earnestly. It's a hard shift to make for a funny guy. Yeah, it is. It's an embarrassing. Has it been embarrassing? Well, sometimes it is, but I've been doing it for a while, and I don't know. I like writing songs.

I like writing music. How do you do it? I sit at the piano or the stand at the guitar. Yeah. And you just do melodies? I do it all. I do, I don't know, sometimes it'll start with a lyric or a word or a phrase or a subject matter. Yeah.

And then bang it out. I'm pretty, I think I'm pretty good at that part of it. Yeah. And it was hard to be earnest about songs? Like get up there and be like Tim Heideker and like here's a great song I wrote? Yeah, a little bit. I think it started because I have, you know, I got a, I got married and got, have a kid. two kids now. Yeah. And I think

I got to an age that I felt like I could talk about stuff that isn't ironic. Yeah. To see how that goes. You are a bona fide member of the snark generation. I know. I know.

But we've talked about this. I think it's interesting to see what you are outside of that, right? Outside of all of it. Yeah. That's why I've got the Christian Amerite book on my porch. Yeah, yeah. I'm trying to... And still be, like, I think there's, I can be funny in my music and I'm funny. But not novelty music.

But not novelty. And not coming from a place of a character. Right. Which is a different thing. Yeah. But, I mean, Randy has done it. Randy Newman, of course. Sure.

He's a one-nameer, right? Yeah, sure. I'll do it. We're pointing a cover of his. Guilty, right? Yeah. Yeah, I just love it. I love music.

And I found this, like you're talking about having a band, like having, like having, I have a band that I just get along with it so good. How often you rehearse? Well, we just, they're so good. You just get together the day before a gig. Yeah, see, I can't do that because I want to learn how to play in a real way with other people. Right. And learn how to like kind of be in, you know, time with everything, you know, because like I tend to choke both as a guitar player and as a singer a bit and then like, I don't know if I'm really. I think the thing that, I hear you, I think the thing that changed for me was we did the tour. Yeah, right. And the, tour has now locked it in that the dynamics of that and the muscle memory of playing to the point

where yeah we you can almost you could turn it off and on how many dates did you do well we did like 30 dates the first summer yeah and then 30 dates the second summer yeah and uh i did it with my stand-up character you know yeah i did the first half of the show is my leather jacket right that guy making fun of all these stand-up comedians sure. Yeah, I do that. Not you, but other people. Seems like I do that for real now. Yeah. And then the second half of the show is the band. Yeah. And people liked it?

Yes, I think so. I think they did. I could, you know, but certain people don't. You know, and certain people don't think that's, that's not what they want from me. Yeah. How do you deal with that? You know, you want everything. Yeah. So. This is all of me. This is still me. Are you interviewing me or you, I mean, do you feel like you're talking to yourself? Is that what you're saying? Well, no, because I understand that framing. But, I mean, I had to understand that framing when, you know, I started doing a podcast.

Right. Like, I had to reassert myself. Like, I do comedy. I'm a comedian. Yeah. But the podcast enabled me to speak in a way freely that wasn't hinged to funny necessarily. So that was freeing. And I don't, like, the way I do the music is I'll do a show where we'll play a couple

songs. I'll bring a comic on. Do a couple more songs. Yeah. Bring a comic on. Do a couple more. And then I'll do a set. and close out.

So we're doing, you know, seven songs, covers with the comedy performances in between. Yes. So it's not, you know, I still don't have confidence to say, like, you know, I'm just good to do a music show. Right. Well, I've worked out a place where I can be funny within the music set. I can talk and do bits.

And you do inter-song, in-between song banter? I do the best. It doesn't get better than my inter-song banter. Yeah. I have a little piano set where I play some funnier songs and make a, I have a couple of musical style routines, whatever. I mean, it sounds so dumb to talk about it, Mark, but. No, I'm curious. I'm curious.

Like routines. Yeah. Bits. But bits, yeah, little sketch, little skits. Yeah. And every time we do it, we feel great leaving the stage. We get, you know, we have fun. I do these, I've see these songs of mine that are all about.

drinking piss. Oh, yeah. This record called Well, that's a relatable thing. Yeah, I mean, nowadays, right? Yeah. It's supposed to be good for you or something. It's a whole album about it.

Yeah. It's called the yellow. You'd love it because it's done in the style of like, you know, Leonard Skinnerd or something. Oh, yeah. And it's very well done. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, the music is very purely done very well.

I'm going to do an ACDC song. Of course I am. Now, you can get up there and you can do the vocals? Yeah, but I do them like. Like me. Speaking of ACDC, Greg Tarkington, who's, you know, now my most prolific collaborator these days because I've just done so much of On Cinema with him, also knows Neil Hamburger does an ACDC thing when he sings, when he does karaoke. That's one of the funniest things I've ever sing. Oh, yeah.

Seen because he gets real close to Mike and he sings like Brian Johnson, but very quietly, you look me out, day long. Yeah, but I think that's how they do it. Like, even Bon Scott, they're not belting it. Right. You got to get up in here. Right. And it's easier to do it when you say. Like Chris Cornell, Chris Cornell, like that mic was barely, it was cranked because he was singing so softly.

Right. And you feel like he's belting it. That's the key. Yeah. How do you feel about your voice generally? I'm self-conscious about it. Yeah, me too. Yeah.

The vulnerability of singing and playing is just, it's fucking overwhelmed me. And I did a Taylor Swift cover the other night. I saw. I saw that. It was great. The special was great, by the way. Oh, thank you very much. Well, yeah, but that was funny because we did that. We didn't time it outright. We did the Taylor Swift cover at Largo.

And now you've got the engagement. I was kind of excited about it. You know, John C. Riley, Fred Armisen, and I did a show a few years ago called Moonbase 8 and our guest star in the first episode of Travis Kelsey. Yeah. Before anyone, before he was a household name. Well, I just saw the news this morning. I was surprised.

I was like, oh, that's good. They seem good together. Yeah. That's a nice... The country needs it. We're healing. Yeah. But after I did the Taylor Swift song,

and then I had to do my comedy set. It made me cry. Yeah. And then I'm like, all right. But I made the transition. You know why? Because I'm a pro. You're a pro.

You're a pro. You're one of the masters. I just locked into the bits. You fucking did it. I would love to... I think if I did cry once on stage during the music. It's so vulnerable to me. Yeah.

Yeah, I just feel like, and I think that... I think that, I think that doing the music and sort of moving through that fear, it's going to help my stand-up in a way because I'm just tired of the patter. I'm tired of, I wrote my notebook. I just wrote Limit Swagger. And your stand-up.

Just in general. In general, yeah. You know? Yeah. There is something about like wondering what, I'm so clear about why I'm doing it for myself. Yeah. But I don't know how close I am to understand

if what I'm doing what if I'm doing it for the right reasons for my audience yeah that's the trick is like but how much of that lives in our head anyways and you know like and in the comments like I don't know like I I'd worry about that too like oh let's indulge Mark right with his little music dream yeah and certainly growing up seeing comics that do music I'm like oh fuck what's he doing you know it didn't it didn't go well for kennyson right you know he was pretty serious about Any comic that is music seriously. I know. It's very hard to watch, to frame it correctly.

Yeah. Even if they're amazing. Right. You know? Yeah. And it's a shame because I think we all come from, like, growing up wanting to just do stuff. Yeah. And not thinking about the genre and how it's going to be classified at Blockbuster Video or whatever.

I guess. But like when Eddie Murphy did, My Girl wants to party all the time. Oh, terrible. I think. Yeah. I'll agree with that. Yeah. But it all comes down to, if you're not doing it to sell records, and you're doing it earnestly to express yourself, then it's legit.

I think that's where I'm coming from, is I have things about I want to say that don't belong in my comedy. Yeah, I haven't figured out how to write a song yet. Yeah. I think I've probably written some, but I have to, like, find them. Does that make sense? Yeah, I mean, either John Lennon says, like, keep it short and make it rhyme. Did he? Yeah, I think so.

But he also has all those cords. You have the Beatles cords. Yeah, I don't, I'm still strictly a one, four, five. No, those are good, too. Those are the catchy ones. With an occasional two. Two minor. Yeah, two minor, right, exactly, to make it pop.

Yeah. Yeah. Just to refresh the ear. You weren't all the Beatles cords? I don't know. No, I'm also a one, four, five, two guy. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, sure, there's six in there. What the fuck? Why not? So you made a record about P, though? Yes, that's the Yellow River Boys. Yeah. And that goes back 10 years. But, you know, if you don't want the heavy stuff.

All right, so now, switching gears, right, so the, listen to me, acting like a real interviewer. The film podcast, what do you do on there? The film podcast is Greg Tarkington and I, and it is a 10-year-long soap opera. That is, the patina of, or the sort of stage in which we perform on is this movie review show. But it's really a psychodrama. About you two? About our two characters. Okay.

Mark, it's the greatest thing ever. Okay. I mean, I'm not kidding you. Based on, like, say, Schill and Ebert or something? Well, that's the format that we play in. Yeah. But it is these two lunatics. Right.

They hate each other. Yeah. And they're miserable and their failures. And that's the, that's what's going on. That's the subtext of the show. And you do that over at the house? No, we do, we like, we go down to Tom's place. We go to, uh, we go to a studio over at, uh, Forever Dogg?

Well, no, no, this is not, this is not a, this is a, this is a, this is a per TV show. It's a production. It's a, it's a, you know, it's a low, but it's on television? It's on our own network, the high network, which people pay for. Yeah. And supports. How many shows you got on there? We have 200 episodes or so of...

Of that. Of that. Of that? What's some other shows on there? High Network is Heideker? Oh, that's it? H-E-I. Well, that's it.

That's all. I mean, that's... You're not producing other shows? No. You're not a... What do you call it? Empresario? Yeah, yeah.

Empresario. Entrepreneur. Mogle. We'd like to. I mean, the show's been running for a long time. And... How's the following? Good.

It's brilliant. It's... It's... You know, we have 15,000 or 20,000 people that subscribe to, that pay to watch the show. Yeah. Which funds the season, and we do an Oscar special every year. We made a movie called Mr. America. Yeah.

That was in the movie theaters. Yeah. You know, it's a cult thing, but I swear, Mark, if you got into it. No, I'll check it out. You would love it. I'll check it out. Because it goes to the darkest places. How much does it cost to?

I'll get you a, give me a break. I get you in. I'll get you in the back door. Yeah, yeah, I can just jump on to high TV. Performers don't pay for things. It's wild, though, because, like, you, like, out of all the people, really, that I talk to, the things that you've done have always been a cult audience. Sure.

Yeah, in terms of, like, but, you know, Tim and Eric had a huge impact on a lot of people, a lot of creative people. It created a tone that I was pretty fascinated. with you know i think that without you there's you know eric andre might not know what he's doing uh-huh without without you and tom green yeah but um but the cult thing yeah jackass yeah yeah i mean he no i'm saying with jackass yeah oh sure jackass yeah sure yeah boy that first jackass movie holy terrific yeah like he i gotta watch that every few years you can't watch it more than that it's not gonna be funny right yeah you got you got savor it but what are you saying i'm saying that like you know, when there's this other idea that's happened, and I think this will get us into,

you know, some of the other stuff I want to talk about, was that this idea that your success is hinged on likes and your... Yes, relevance. Yeah, you're following, you know, that it's all about, you know, the clicks and the and the Benjamins. Yeah. And, you know, I've never been a greedy fuck or, you know, gunning for the money, right? I maybe would have done it differently, but I think at some point I realized there's no other way I can do it.

Yeah. So for me to, you know, assess that as being the way show business works, even on the level of independent show business, that it really becomes like how many followers, like how many people are subscribed, all this other shit, that, you know, quality or integrity of the thing or even creativity is, you know, second or third or fourth in the concern. Yeah. But I guess where I was going at the beginning of this is that when you're always sort of, you have to realize like, you know, I have this audience, you know, they're my audience. You know, I don't want to push them away most days. Yeah. But I do push the limit.

But, you know, why can't, you know, I'd be happy with that. And I think some part of the answer, given that what you and I do sometimes, is that it feels insulated. You know, like if you want to do work. that has a politically, you know, satirical target and intention, if it's just to make your audience laugh, who gives a shit? Yeah, yeah. And I find that frustrating sometimes. Well, yeah, I, in the case of On Cinema, I think it is,

it's a very specific kind of dry comedy that takes quite a bit of maybe investment. But I say that and I sound like, it sounds like bullshit, because everything requires a bit of investment. If you're going to start watching madmen, you're going to not maybe, you're going to, you know, try to not understand. You don't know who everything is, what everything is about. Sure. So for whatever reason, our stuff appeals to not as many people, but they stay with us for years.

Yeah. And but my, I'm not trying to alienate anybody and we're just making our things. Right. No, no. I'm talking about political stuff. Yes. Well, I mean, I certainly am political, but not on cinema. So if you're talking outside of on cinema. I'm just talking in the general sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That you're still playing to an audience. Right. And, like, because I've just had this experience over the last few weeks. Yeah. Of, you know, shooting my mouth off in a format that. Yes, and, I mean, we're all loving it. Oh, good. But, but, like, because we don't do video, and that's very intentional.

Right. You know, because we do a certain thing, and it was a decision. It wasn't like, you know, why don't you make the jump? It was not what we do. Yeah, yeah. to create the intimacy we want to create and to create the experience we want to have and what I want to have with who I'm talking to. But all of a sudden I go out and, you know, Brendan's not editing me, you know, and I'm just, I'm kind of going on. You're annoyed from like you sitting down already.

Well, well, there's that. But there's also like all the stuff I'm talking about, you know, I've talked about before. Sure. But because it's on video and because it's shareable. Right. And because there were moments where, you know, I took people on, all of a sudden it's got all this fucking traction. And, you know, I'm all of a sudden in this conversation or one side of conversation with people who hate what I say or people who like what I say that, you know, you start to realize that, okay, well, that's all well and good. And I feel like, like you said, I think it makes a difference.

I mean, I'm primarily speaking for our community. absolutely, you know, comics and creatives who are in the face of authoritarianism and the sort of momentum of that to make ourselves scared to talk or to, you know, or to feel like, you know, what we're doing is being pushed aside, you know, and then that for me, you know. Well, I'm also, when you say community, forget, I mean, yes, absolutely, some comedians and artists and creatives and people that we work with and people that are in my family. family and people that are friends of mine, I feel an obligation to speak on their behalf. If people are going to ask me about things or if I'm going to do my office hours podcast,

which is a live call and show that I generally talk about what's going on with me. And so I heard today, like, you know this fucking guy, Patrick Bet, David, do you know, these guys? Oh, they're like, they're in the roguess fear, but they're not comedians. They're just these biz bros, you know, real estate fuckers. Bad guys. Yeah. 100%. And they were playing this clip of,

you see this clip of Snoop Dog going to the movie theater. The problem that he did not explain it to his grandkids or something. Yeah. Like, and they go on about it for 10 minutes. Yeah. Well, this is what's wrong with Disney.

And finally people are waking up. And if it's so woke for Snoop Dog, then maybe people, I'm like, what the fuck are you guys talking about? Yeah. A cartoon with two moms that have an adopted kid. Yeah.

That should be the, and they're talking about grooming and how this is a, you know, disgrace. All the talking point. And I get so mad about it because fuck you, if you don't have a friend or a cousin or a family member, somebody who's, is like done a very, in my opinion, normal thing. Yeah. Of falling in love with somebody and adopting a kid. Yeah. Like that should be the most fucking white bread, wonder bread bullshit now. Yeah.

Well, they don't. It's like, but they're treating it. Like, it's the, you know, guys fucking each other in the middle of a Pixar movie. Yeah. Well, they're, they're, they're, they don't come from love. The, the, the idea of, of love being enough between two people doesn't factor into their judgment. But we, I'm glad you're talking and I feel like I need to talk because those guys are sucking up so much of the oxygen. That's what I mean, yeah.

It's the same audience that, that is watching Rogan, and everyone's getting validated by this cretiness backwards. 20th century thinking about, you know, the world we're living in. Yeah. And we're one of the last countries to sort of just be okay with this shit. Yeah. You know, but I've said it before that once, you know, tolerance is removed from the equation, you know, democracy becomes nearly impossible. Yeah. You know, there was this thing, I think John sent it to me about, there's this thing about the stepbrothers.

Yeah. movie the step brother. Great fucking funny movie. And there's this sort of a quality to it that feels like you can be a little, you can play with race jokes. You can play with certain kind of jokes because at the time everyone felt like this has all been settled science. You know what I mean? Like we are not, we don't have, we can play, we can play now because we've figured it all. And it feels like it's not the case right now. It's all coming back. Yeah. And these ideas of, you know, white supremacy or homophobia

trans scare it's like it's all coming back and we have to just be loud about it well yeah because as real world consequences because you know

the authoritarian administration and the fascist cultural apparatus through the Christians is you know they're making policy built on the back of this anti-woke thing

and that was you know all these comics who were like, you know, it was really about language and their own victimization that they saw. Yeah. Which wasn't real. Wasn't real. And now like, you know, they are tethered to political policies that are really killing people and damaging lives and infringing on the freedom of people and their rights. And none of it was ever funny. Like the, like these podcasts that these guys sit around and talk about the old days at the store and there's a way. There's a to talk about it, that's funny.

Sure. But, you know, to see Rogan get teared up about it, it's sort of, it's a little rough, you know, but, but also the fact that they're, you know, they've elevated to this level of influencer where, you know, people are going to them for this information. And arguably, some of them were never funny. And, you know, if I've got, you know, I don't even like mentioning names because I want to give them any juice. Right. But, but it's like, you know, the job of comedian, you know, it's a broad spectrum. It's weird about limiting swagger because, like, your character that you do is the, it's the definition of empty swagger. Right, yeah, right.

Yeah, yeah. And I don't know where I saw that. I don't know what I picked up on to, that where I just like, oh, that's what those guys do when they don't have the material. It's all just about attitude and stuff. But, yeah, I mean, that's what I was making fun of. Right. But I don't like, because I thought that thing you did that you didn't do as Rogan, you know, you did with those other two guys. Yeah, Jeremy.

How the fuck did you construct that? Did you write it? Or was there an intention? Did you say to these guys, like never commit to anything that might be against what I'm saying and never say anything? Well, the story, yeah, the, I sort of, yeah, we had a Google Doc, which had like some names and books, like fake book names and subjects. And just, I know those guys are such really funny and they knew the world. Who were those guys? is one of the guys,

and Jeremy Levick is the other. And they do their own stuff. And they were on Malaney's show this year as writers and stuff. They're very talented. We knew the world well enough that we could improvise around certain ideas and names. But the best thing that happened to us, because they're in New York,

and we shot it, we did it remotely. So I shot my side in our studio, and we had a little crew set up in New York. And we just did it kind of over Zoom, but filmed it, you know? and we got the footage back and their audio was terrible it was like unusable

and they tried to fix it and everything and I thought it was so great and I said we just have to redo this and it was a rare thing I've never really never had to do that before we have just completely reshoot something but it was good because we had this rehearsal day where we just figured out

I was able to like say that was really funny let's try to do that again or maybe we don't need to go down that It's probably better. Yeah. It was a great happy accident. But, you know, it was something where we shot for two hours and got an hour out of it. Yeah.

So it was a lot of laughing. Yeah. As a good sign. Did you post that as part of the office hours? Yeah. So I don't know how you find it anymore. But didn't it go viral of it? Yeah.

People got it right away. Yeah. And it would hit at the right time where people were, I like to think that there was something, there's something annoying about his show that you can't put your finger on. Yeah. And we put our finger on it, you know, and said, this is what's annoying about it. And it wasn't even political. It was just like how boring it is. And how, you know, going in circles you end up going.

It's just a bunch of guys. It has this tone of like what I remember from like the college rec center, you know, at three in the morning. Yeah. Which I don't want to go back and have those conversations again. You're skirting around an issue that you don't understand with information that, that, you don't understand either. Yes. Yeah.

Yeah. So, yeah, I just, it always bothered me. I always think the premise of that joke was that these guys talk in these, in loops and don't really get to anywhere. You never walk away getting like any answers. Yeah. And you just get more confused. And I've never made it to the end of one of those shows. I don't, I've never watched one.

You know, like I see clips. Yeah, I see clips occasionally. Right. But like I find that I'm really out of the loop because after, you know, I don't know, I'm. know, whatever happened the other day on Pod Save America, you know, that, that sort of landed. And I got to ask my producer, I'm like, are you seeing it out there? Because I guess I'm out of the loop. And it's everywhere in those fucking worlds.

And I don't go. Tony Hinchcliff, I saw him talking about you. That's terrific. It's all good for you, Mark. I hope you understand. Well, I'm trying to understand because, like, there's still part of me, and it's a real part of me that believes on some level we're all comics. but you know but I know that that doesn't matter anymore right and you know what Tony was saying

outside of you know with me and you he was just hanging himself like you know like these guys they show up every couple years right yeah because we're building an act yeah we're doing the work yeah and he's like I'm out there every day delivering comedy and the whole premise whether you know it's making model T's well but it's like he's couching in this idea of wrestling where you know the, you know, the essence of the show is like a guy who's not a good comic, you know, has, you know, hungry amateur comics out there to, to shit on him. Yeah. It's very cruel. I mean, that's the show.

Yeah. It's very hard to watch. And we did a parody of that, too, but it was almost not, it's too, it's too gross to even make fun of it. Well, he plays it like he's the heel, you know, in that there is a spectacle element of it. But for me, it's like stand-up, you know, there is a craft to it, and it is, comedy is a place where you can, you know, challenge things. Right. As opposed to just create garbage. Right.

To titillate fucking, you know, fury and intolerance. So there's a counter to it. Yeah. I don't relate to any of it because I'm not a stand-up and I don't. I mean, I do it, but like the world I come from is not competitive in the way we work together. It is collaborative and is joyful and silly for the most part. And the broie locker room vibe isn't there. Well, that's also like for me, I've never been able to lock in with that.

I don't lock in with that many people, really. Like if I think of myself in high school, I knew those guys, but I'd kind of, you know, subvert. you know, insults with, yeah, I, I would kind of move between groups, but I never, you know, I never sit there. I was never able to just kind of like, you know, like, I'm going to go hang out with the dudes, you know, I mean, I do it with comics now, but I was never that guy. I was always too uncomfortable. Yeah.

I don't know. I was never a nerd either. Sorry. I was just a guy. I'm not, I'm not freaked out about it. But I don't, so it's not really where I come from, but where I come from is just, as valid. Yeah.

I don't know, man. Well, I mean, what are we going to do? I don't know because I, people look at, people think I'm obsessed with this world or that because I talk about it a lot or I talk about politics. I think from the beginning, we've just been people, whether it was the Tim and Eric stuff or whatever I do, I was looking at the world and it's filtering through and coming back out as what I think is funny or absurd. Yeah, that's right.

And this seems to be the thing that's in the middle of the room right now, you know, from our perspective. Maybe it's not for everybody else. Sure. But for me, it's fascinating. Watching this PBD, I'll send you clips to these guys, and you'll just go, yeah, of course you're watching this every day. Yeah. Because it's fascinating that these people are sucking up oxygen and getting eyeballs.

And breaking brains. And breaking brains. And normalizing. Yeah. Some, you know, you know, fucked up shit. Yeah. And it often comes back out of me. It regurgitates into something that is amusing to people.

Yeah. funny or creatively satisfying to me. But it's hard to ignore the, this situation. But how do you like, you know, like I talked to a guy last week, Peter Conheim, who was with Negative Land. Okay, yeah. And, you know, back in the day, there was this idea of culture jamming, you know, where you would put something into the machine that would kind of like, you know, fuck it up.

Right. You know, whether it be a satirical brand. I think, like, I think that probably one of the. the great culture jams was the Illuminate conspiracy was invented by a couple of hippies. Right. Robert Anton Wilson? He was part of it and the other guy. Right.

But it was in reaction to the John Birch Society. Right. That, you know, they were trying to, you know, figure out a way across all avenues of information at that time to put this in the world, you know, as a means to, you know, create this incredible prank. Right. that these forces were all part of it. Right. And now it's established as something that people believe in. Right, right.

So I think it's an effective prank, but it kind of backfired on itself over time. Yeah, yeah. But don't, do you ever think about like, like, as an intention, you know, how do, you know, we or you, you know, start fucking with what you're saying, this, the sucking up air business? I mean, there's a lot of amateurs that do it, and they do their little real. and they're like, you know, they do their little sketches and stuff. Right. But a real way to cause some, you know, some shit, because I think there's a vulnerability to it all now.

Yeah. The thing you're up against is that all these communities are so siloed and they don't engage with each other. No. So somehow you've got to create a self-denating bomb. Yeah. I mean, I want to explore more like the numbers that these people have. It just feels wrong.

Uh-huh. You know, really, are there, are they really listening, are they really tuning in for all this? Yeah, 100 million people. Yeah. I mean, Hinchcliff is doing Madison Square Garden. I guess people are going to that, you know. But so is Seguera. And Seguer is like, you know, for, whether you like them or not, is a real comic.

Right. But a lot of them lean pretty heavily into their audience because they can turn out hours all the time now because everybody's up to speed. Right. And you can just finish stories. Right. As your show. Right. Like, you guys remember when I did the,

Well, here's what... Inside joke. What's back to the cult thing, but their numbers are bigger. But it's an inside joke thing, but, you know, it's their audience. I get it. Right. You know, people are up to speed. Right.

But, like, there are guys in that world that I don't have any issue with. Right. You know, Segura, Bert. I don't, you know, it's fine. You know, they're doing the comedy. It's the ideologues and the people that have this position about what comedy should be that are frightening to me. Yeah. But, like, yeah, maybe the place to start as the...

numbers, but I just feel like there's got to be a way to somehow, with some consistency, create, you know, malignant cells of information. Yeah, it feels like it's starting. I mean, that elephant graveyard video is so great. It's the best. The new one? Yeah, the new one. And that gets a lot of views, too.

And you'd got to think that there's people that are getting a little tired of the talk, the endless conversation that isn't going anywhere. You're not getting anything back from it. You would think. I mean, that's the bigger question. Is it getting exhausted or is it still reinforcing everything? I mean, I know that Joe's kind of changing his tune now. Right.

How convenient, you know. Yeah. Yeah, but the thing is, like, you know, he did what he did. Right. Oh, so, yeah, there's no, like, you're an adult and there are consequences for getting that involved. Yeah. To the point where you had the guy on the show and endorsed him explicitly to your audience. But I also think there's this framework where, and I, I, I also think there's this framework where,

And I think I talked about it on that POTS of America where it's like these people are fundamentally anti-democratic. So, like, there's no two-party solution to people that, you know, shamelessly and forcefully believe that liberal democracy is bullshit. Right. And so what do you do up against that? Well, they might win as part of it. No, they are winning. You know, I mean, they are, I mean, the real very fundamental. mental things could start going away.

Well, that's happening. I mean, you're right. You're right. I'm saying like, that's my argument with them. It's like, okay, you guys started this anti-woke shit. And everybody was upside about pronouns and not being able to say retard. But, you know, now they have policy built around this. And there's real world consequences for everybody.

And aside from just the smaller world consequences is once you free those words, you're freeing kids to be disrespectful. Right. Because they think it's cool again or they think it's fun. Yeah. I mean, no, by the way, let me take back. It is happening. Fully happening.

But, you know, the big things, well, again, yeah, you're right. I keep thinking about it because I'm like, well, no, that is actually happening. Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah. There's the troops on the streets, you know, like how much clearer. I mean, hand it, I mean, again, these people are coming, they're flip flopping. We can call them flip floppers now finally, like Tim Dillon saying this is all, this is all what Alex Jones was worried. about happening.

Yeah. You said that the other day. Oh, did he? Yeah. But it's like you got, you had J.D. Vance on your show. Yeah.

You did fundraisers for R.F.K. Yeah. Yeah. So how do you, yeah. But, I mean, I guess you, we should be glad that they're saying something, but no, I guess so.

Because, like, that's where you come back to, like, so you comics are landing back in it. Yeah. You know, you got your little rise to power, but, you know, now you're on the hook. But the, the powers that be don't care because they got what they're in now.

So we got to, I just want to, I want to figure out, like, I guess what I think is missing, and what I think that, you know, I do in my own way with stand-up or with just, you know, blabbing is some sort of, you know, functional, impactful creative resistance. Yeah. Not just like, you know, like, well, we're going to do this thing. It's an Eagle Rock. Fundraiser. Yeah, fundraiser.

Or, like, we're all doing a show. you know, it's two drag queens and this trans guy, but they're all really funny. It's a dynasty, and we're going to put all the proceeds to like, look, that's all great. Sure. But, you know, how do we fucking blow it up from the inside, dude? It has to be done through the information platforms. Right. It has to be done.

I'm going to get on it. I'm going to get. You will? Yeah, I'll get my team. And, well, I mean, listen, we'll just, for us, we just will keep goofing on it. That's all I know how to do, but that's probably not enough, right? Well, the goof has to have, you know, the problem is, is that if there's a revelation in the goof, and, you know, ultimately what you've got to accept is that it's not going to change your target at all. Right.

You know, it's not going to impact the target, but it kind of is with like these comics who are sort of like, whoa, whoa. All of a sudden, like, hey, you know, you owe us a favor. Yeah. I think there's a fair amount of them that, not to boast, but we're probably fans of ours that are uncomfortable with. me. Yeah. And that is interesting, I guess. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. I do know that I landed something somewhere because, you know, they're talking about it. Sure, sure. And I think your resonance is, uh, is impactful and, uh, giving some cover for other people to be more. Well, that's all we can hope for, right? Yeah. Yeah. I just, I just, I just, I wish that there was some

the problem is everything's decentralized. There's no, you know, common language. There's no, you know, a full community of people that are making choices as a community. Everyone's just sort of shut in and insulated within their bubbles of what they take in. Yeah. And how do we unlock the brains? But I mean, look, I've got no solutions, but there is something. And also when you land one of these things, even like Elephant Graveyard, it's like, are those just like-minded people watching it? But even that's fine if it raises an awareness where conversations can happen.

Well, yeah, and it, like, again, back to my little parody I did, it's like it, it scratches an itch about what was bothering you about something, and it fills in some of the holes. That's right. Yeah. Yeah, we need more hole fillers. Yeah. But, so why do you think it's, it's, how are you? Like, because with me, the negative attention, you know, there's a couple ways to look at it that was brought to my attention by my producers. I don't like negative attention.

It hurts me, and it's scary. me, but I don't like being a coward either. And I don't like not feeling like I can speak freely. Right. So you got to make a choice with that. Yeah. You can be only as diplomatic as you can be before you're like, fuck this. Right.

And I've always been more fuck this, but you know what I'm saying? Because these guys love negative attention. You know, the... Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. But that's because they see it as like they pissed off the people they hate. Right. So, you know, on some level, I've got...

You've got to reframe the negative tension as like, oh, good. I'm glad I pissed these guys off. There's a little bit of that. I mean, there's some stuff that is just too funny to stop to not talk about and too crazy to not talk about. You know, if you saw any of that thing that Trump, him in the Oval Office with the hat on, if Trump was right about everything, and he looks like shit. Like, he is dying. Yeah.

Right. And I think it's funny to talk about him dying. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And I want to goof around about that. And, like, what is, what are we going to do with the body and how long is it going to take to burn it? Yeah, yeah.

And, you know, what's it going to smell like? Yeah. Well, also, there's this idea that, like, like, once people get past the fact, it's like, you know, calling them out on double standards, it means nothing. I know. Well, of course, yeah. Like, no, I will, I have the capacity to get very crude and dark. Yeah. And I like going into that place.

Yeah, because it transcends all that. Yeah, and it's also, like, a lot of my comedy, I think, comes from, like, a place of meaninglessness. Yeah, yeah. Well, like, we're all going to fucking end up in the dirt. Yeah, yeah. So let's goof around about it a little bit. Yeah, yeah, at least acknowledge it. Yeah, I try to.

Every morning. Yeah. So what is happening right now with you? What are you doing? You're going to do those shows. Going to be a lesion. And I don't have, you know, low stakes there. going to try some things. So let's not focus. This is an international audience. That's a small

room. Don't fly in for the Elysian. I do have one thing to plug, which is a little hard to explain, but Greg Turkington, Mark Proach and I, Mark, people will know from what we do in the shadows. Yeah. And the K-Stra's yo-yo guy who's on the office. He's, yeah. Him, Mark, and Greg and I have had a text thread for, and I'm sure you do too with certain funny people. I can't keep up. But we've had one for 12, 13 years. Yeah. That's like legitimately the funniest thing that I experience, like, on a regular basis. Yeah.

It is cry laughing. Yeah. That is the, me and Greg beating up on Mark, trying to get him to do shit and trying to get him to. And it got, we both, we all love it. Yeah. And we get, we invest a lot of time in it. Yeah. Like, we do it like all the time.

Yeah. And we've started to edit them. and compile them, and we're putting them out as a weekly, like, weekly serialized installments of short stories, basically. Oh, really? And it's called, it's at marianswish.com, M-A-R-I-O-N-S-Wish.com. Yeah. And you sign up for it, and you get this every week.

Yeah. You get this little piece. And it's, it's, we have, you know, a couple thousand pages of material to go through. Yeah, yeah. And it's very crude and it's very disgusting. and, you know, it was meant for just the three of us. Yeah. And now we're picking the bones of our private...

Yeah, your private perverse comedy. We put it out as a... We put out like a small chunk in 2020 called Marion's Wish, and we put it out as like an free e-book. Yeah. And people loved it. And we've just trying to figure out how to do more, and we're going to try it this way.

That's fun. What about that movie you made in New Mexico when I ran into you out there? That's called. him, and by the way, that was a great time with you. We had fun. I appreciate that. Ended up having dinner with... That's public, right?

We can talk about that. Aubrey Plaza and... Margaret Qualley. Yeah, because they were staying down the street. Was I staying there, too? No, you're staying at your new place. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I don't know if you remember, or if you've said this, but we went, you're very nice,

we ran into each other at the Burbank Airport. Yeah, yeah. And I was thinking about this this morning, that when... When you run into, like, a friend or somebody you know, both going on Southwest, you're just going to sit next to each other. Yeah, you can do that. Yeah. Well, you have to do that. Yeah, it would be weird, I think, for not.

You go find your seat. Yeah, okay. But anyway, yeah, you took me out to Los Pablanos. Yes, yeah. And we get there and you say to the hostess, are there any famous people here tonight? As like a joke, kind of. Yeah. But also, like, you know, hey, I think you knew her or something.

Yeah, yeah, I did, yeah. But just like, you know, hey, it's me. Yeah, yeah. Who are the famous people? Yeah, where they all stay there, yeah. Yeah, and you were right because there was Aubrey and Margaret, and we know them, or I knew Aubrey very well. Yeah. And I didn't know who, I didn't know who Margaret quality was.

Yeah, yeah. I had seen her in movies, I guess, but I didn't put it together. Yeah, she's pretty great. She was great. That was fun. And we had a great time. Yeah, and then we went to that weird little stand-up show. And then you did stand-up, and I just want to say it was just like a local thing, you know, it was local.

A little alt-comedy-ish. Some of the people weren't going to go far in this business, you know. But you came out, and I was just moved by just how much better you were than everybody else. Thank God. Just like, well, yeah, but just to watch somebody kind of just try a couple things. I just, I'm always impressed with people that are very good at what they do. Well, thanks, man. I appreciate that.

It was fun. And that movie's coming up. Is that the football movie? It is a football horror movie. Yeah, yeah, it looks pretty intense. It's really, I haven't seen it, but it's... I didn't see you in the trailer. No, I didn't make the trailer.

And I think, I mean, I know I'm in it. Yeah. I think there's an element to my character that you might not want to put in the trailer, if that makes sense. Okay. I guess. That's a good pitch. That's a good promo. It told me I'm good in it.

Okay. You know, thank God, Jordan Peel and his company... Our fan? Think of me for things. Yeah, yeah. The second movie I'm doing with them. And Marlin's great, right? Yeah.

I always have fun of Marlon. Well, I wasn't in anything with him, but apparently he's great. Yeah, he's a good actor, but he's a funny guy. He's a guy that, like, he likes to laugh. So if he'd get him going, it's pretty fun. It's so nerve-wracking doing that stuff. I don't know how you feel about it. I think it's just like...

A lot of waiting. Yeah, and do you have this thing? I have this thing where first day, I never sleep the night before. I'm so nervous. And then that fucks you so badly. Because then not only are you still nervous, but you're also sleep deprived. Just that first couple of scenes where you're supposed to say the things. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I don't care how many times I've gone over it and worked on it. Yeah. It comes out like, let me just do it. Can I go back and do that again? Shit. And then you feel like, what am I doing? I've got three lines. How did I get in this position?

Yeah. Yeah, it's a taxing undertaking all that for a while. lot of reasons. But he leveled off. Okay. Yeah. And then I get everyone's nice. Everyone's cool. Everyone, you know, I find my, my pace. Yeah, and it's also a collaborative thing. It's not all, you know, you weren't the lead or anything. No, I was not the lead. Yeah. It'll be fun. It's fun to be in those big movies. Yeah, yeah. Things that everyone sees and then people see. Hey, there he was. Yeah. Hey, man. It's cool. I saw you in that movie. All right, man. Well, I'm so glad to talk to you. Yeah, it's fun. Congratulations. Thanks, man.

There you go. Tim Heideker.com to sign up for alerts about his tour dates and to check out all the various shows he does. Funny guy, smart guy, interesting guy. Hang out for a minute. You can find inspiration anywhere on an open stretch of highway over unexplored terrain or in your very own garage with refined styling, intuitive technology,

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things because i'm a comic the original kings of comedy which is great thank you i remember I was at the, what year was that? I was at the comedy festival in Aspen, Colorado, probably been in the mid-90s. And they had flown Bernie out there. And it's the middle of the snow, Bernie. And there's all only white people in Aspen. And it was one of the best things ever fucking saw in my life.

Yeah, because, you know, he's bringing a world just by nature of who he is. It's just that there's a raw world that has not been made, you know, in any way sort of like something that white people can necessarily understand. And to see it in Aspen, Colorado. They dug it, though, right? Well, they, when they got past the fear.

How to get past that first, right? Yeah, sometimes it's hard, you know. I understand. That's Thursday show and a reminder before we go. This podcast is hosted by ACAST. I think I've done this song before, but I don't think I've done it on acoustic. Just trying to do this jigsaw puzzle.

I'm going to be the one of the I'm trying to I'm going to I'm going to I'm going I'm going to I'm a

I'm I'm having I'm I'm I'm going I'm I'm going to I mean,

I'm going to have a lot of I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm going to be the

I'm going to be. I'm going to you know I'm going to I'm I'm going to And I'm on.

I'm I'm going I'm going to be the I'm going to be a I'm going to yewere, I'm going to know

I'm going to be I'm going I'm I'm just a You know, I'm trying to see.

I'm going to see. I'm not I'm not going to be able to be. I'm going to be. I'm going to be. I'm the future. I'm going to.

I'm a day. I'm going to be. I'm going to be. I'm trying to do. I'm coming. I'm going to be.

I'm going to be. I'm a good. I'm going. I'm going. I'm going to. I'm. Boomer lives, monkey and lafonda.

Bumer lives, monkey and la Fonda. Cat angels everywhere. Thank you.