WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1681 - Jimmy Pardo

Episode Date: September 25, 2025

When WTF started in 2009, Never Not Funny was already there. Jimmy Pardo has been in the podcast game for almost 20 years and was a direct inspiration for Marc back when he wanted to start one of his own. Jimmy and Marc talk about being there in the early days of the medium, how they each learned how to make podcasting work as a business, why Jimmy held onto some bitterness through the years, and how they’ve each come to let go of the things that used to bother them. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Lock the gate! All right, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fuck, Knicks. What's happening? I'm Mark Maren. This is my podcast.

Welcome to it in the home stretch here. How's everybody doing? You okay? Today on the show, Jimmy Pardo is here. Now look, Jimmy has been podcasting since 2006. And he was one of the guys at the beginning when we started WTF that I knew. was out there. I knew him. I knew his comedy. I known him a long time. And, you know, he was doing never not funny, which was a show that had a lot of influence on us in terms of, you know,

how to do a podcast, how to, you know, perhaps monetize it or what the options, you know, were at the time. But he was there with a small group of us that were part of the podcast and community. He was on WTF back on episode 102 as well as a couple of live episodes. But it made sense to have him back on here in the homestretch because he was one of the guys, one of the gang of the original podcasters. And again, I always have to qualify that by saying there were other podcasters. There were podcasters years before us. I'm talking about the community I came up with. It's weird when so much time goes by that all of a sudden the people you came up with, that that's a long time ago. I mean, I was at the comedy store the other night, night before last, and Dave Attell came by.

And I've known Dave Atel, we started roughly at the same time in New York. I've known him going back to, what, 89? Is that possible? 35, 36 years. I've known Dave Attell. I spent a lot of time with David Tell. We were both, you know, hammering away at the same dream. Me and him and Ross and Silverman and C.K. and Todd Barry.

Others, many others. But I don't see Dave that much anymore. And I saw him last night. You know, we see each other in passing and he's not a huge talker. But it really becomes kind of moving as you get older in this light. as people have passed, as people have fallen away, as, you know, people have had their own troubles and their own lives. And, you know, seeing Dave, it was, it was great. It's always great to see Dave. I never know if he's going to, you know, talk to me for very long. But that's been the way it's been

for our whole life. But, you know, we were out back and we were out in front of the club. And there's a few people gathered around, chit-chat. And he says, come on, take a walk. And we had a little catch up, and it was, it's very sweet. It's very sweet to get to a certain age with your life committed to one thing and realize there are people who knew you at the beginning, who were there with you at the beginning. Even if you've lived totally different lives, you don't see each other very often, just that moment of like, hey, still alive, huh? Still at it. Here we are. Look at us.

How's your mom? How's your health? What do you've been doing? Yeah, I saw that thing you did. That was great. It just, it becomes deeper and more touching as time goes on. It's not competitive. It's not, you know, in any way detached aside from the time spent apart.

But it really becomes sort of like we are still here, brother, and we're still doing the thing. And you're holding up well. I'm holding up well. I'm glad you're okay. The final batch of WTF cap mugs go on sale tomorrow. These are the mugs I give to my guests and their handmade pieces of art by Brian Jones. You can get one tomorrow starting at noon eastern. Go to WTFmugs.co. Also, the documentary, Are We Good?

opens next week, October 3 in New York and Los Angeles. I'll be at some of the screenings here in L.A. as well as the Vancouver Film Festival. There are special screenings around the country on October 5th and October 8th. Go to Are We Good, Marin.com, to see where it's playing and get tickets. The Kickstarter for the graphic novel, WTF is a podcast, is still going on, and we're still pushing to get everyone who orders a book, a special box brown design WTF trading card. And if we can get over 250 grand, everyone gets a frame set of our four trading cards,

me, boomer, monkey, and LaFonda, the original crew. go to z2comics.com slash WTF. And if I could at this moment, I'm not going to make this screening, but I just want to draw attention to the fact that the movie Springsteen deliver me from nowhere is showing at the New York Film Festival this weekend.

And if you didn't get a chance to hear it over the summer, you can check out the episode I did with Jeremy Allen White, who plays Bruce in the movie. So the Bruce movie, how'd you feel about it? It was very hard. Well, especially because he's sitting there the whole time. But in terms of playing Bruce and doing your own singing,

from what I remember on set, that there were times where Bruce couldn't tell the difference. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, I had not had a lot of experience, or any experience singing, playing guitar, any of it. And so that was daunting to say the least in the beginning. and I didn't have, I mean, I had a lot of time, but I didn't have as much time as I would have liked.

You never do, you know? But I had about six months to kind of... What's fortunate with those songs, the guitar playing's not, like, not heavy-lived. It's not a lot of, yeah, the chords are pretty simple. There's not many of them, and a lot of the songs are in the same. Yeah. But the singing was a, you know, a gamble.

And, but... So what did you do? Just kind of, like, figure out at first just to mimic it? Like, do you listen to it? Yeah. And then kind of record yourself? Yeah, I mean, I worked with this guy, Eric Vitro, who's kind of like the guy. You know, he helped Austin with the Elvis movie.

He helped Timothy Shalamee with the Dylan movie. He's kind of the go-to. And he works with a lot of amazing, like, vocalists and, you know, real singers and performers. But I got together with him. And then I really have to give Eric credit because he was there to kind of, or I thought he was there, to be like, you know, this is how you sing a song. This is how you make it sound good. But he would catch me Not feeling connected to it

And doing what as an actor I should have just been doing naturally Which is like, what are you talking about? Yeah, right. What's going on? Right, right. Have you written this down a whole bunch? Yeah.

Just think about is this, you know, who's Bruce playing Or, you know, which moment in Bruce's life is this? You know, all this stuff. It should have been simple, but I was so worked up with how does this sound Being self-conscious about this? And sounding like Bruce. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So that was like a breakthrough. Huh. And then, you know, we pre-recorded. And so that gave me the ability to, like a lot of vocalists, you know, you sing the song for an afternoon. Yeah. And they go ahead and they put together your greatest hits. Right, right. Right.

Right, right. That's episode 1672 with Jeremy Allen White and the movie opens nationwide on October 24th. So many. We've done all the talks. We've done all the talking. Oh, my God. So I know the big news outside of horrible news about another shooting and outside of the farce of our president speaking at the UN. The big news is that Jimmy Kimmel returned to work.

And this was no small feat, to be honest with you. I mean, look, I spoke out early and then many people spoke out. when I did and then actors came together and then comedians came together over time. Even the comics that do not identify with the politics that that Jimmy Kimmel is or with the side of politics that Jimmy Kimmel has been linked to and represents. They eventually came out in fairly full-throated ways. But everyone kind of got on the same page and an amazing thing happened. And of course, the boycott was, I think, in a large part, an amazing thing. And he returned to the airwaves and made a tremendous monologue out of what happened

and what he feels is right and wrong and his wrong phrasing or misunderstanding or being misunderstood. I just thought all in all, it was an incredible showing for a guy with humility. with a big heart and with a sort of very precise and righteous attack on the threat to free speech by an authoritarian administration. And I thought it was tremendous. But I do think we have to take note that this was a five-alarm fire. This was no little thing. This was nothing that could be dismissed.

and all roads lead back to FCC chair Brendan Carr, who outwardly and very deliberately made an ominous threat. He couched it in language where he wouldn't be legally liable, but it was strong-arming, plain and simple, by the administration. And then Trump, a day after Jimmy gets his job back, confirms that this was a autocrat's desire of his authoritarian government to silence a voice that he didn't like and agree what took personally. I mean, the difference between Trump being annoyed by people who make fun of him and the structure of the policies that the new authoritarian administration has coincide a bit.

I think Trump, thankfully, because of his big mouth and his inability to take a joke and his incredibly thin skin and frail ego, because he takes everything personally and does not know how to shut up, really kind of fucks it up for the authoritarian system that he is the frontman for. I don't know how conscious that is, as long as it serves his petty needs, but it does make it plainly obvious what the intentions are and what they were and how they're not going to stop. But I'm not necessarily helpful, but I am encouraged by the outpouring of not just support for Jimmy, but action taken. and voices heard that this is not America.

This is not how America was supposed to be, how America is. On another note, I'm waffling back and forth between rehousing my cat Charlie because it's just too violent here. I really don't know how people have kids. Yesterday I was like, I'm so sad. I have to get rid of them,

but it's probably going to be better for everybody. And today I bought a fucking cat tree for my bedroom. which is where he'll probably end up living almost exclusively. That's my life. Rotating and going back and forth between rehousing a cat that I adore, but that in times of rational thinking, I think maybe everybody would be better off if he had a single cat home

and he could be the king of the place. That's my life. That's how I spend my time. I go through all the emotions and I waffle back and forth between making big decisions. It's just that I'm tethered to this cat and that I can't travel comfortably. I can't spend a day away from my house

without wondering, is that little fuck okay? And some people be like, yeah, well, that's cute. Is it, I'm getting old. You know, I should be able to have the freedom to do what I want to do. And if I can't do it, it shouldn't be because I wonder if that crazy fucking cat will be okay.

You know what I mean? So listen, something people keep saying to me about the podcast ending is that I should take a vacation. Look, I used to take vacations. I used to love to go to Kauai. I enjoyed Kauai. I would go there once a year, usually. I haven't been on a vacation.

I can't remember the last vacation I've been on. I was just talking to somebody about traveling to Tuscany and Umbria. I do need to take one. But if you're planning to take a vacation, there's always the question of what to do with your empty house while you're away. Of course, there's the option to host your place. on Airbnb to make some extra cash. And now it's easier than ever with Airbnb's co-host network. You get a high-quality local host to take care of your home and your guests.

They manage all the hosting details, send messages and updates, and are available to be on hand when your guests are there, just to help out with anything that might come up. So your co-host handles the details and you still make some cash while you're enjoying your vacation. Find a co-host at Airbnb.com slash host. So look, Jimmy Pardo is here. And this is another thing about going back with somebody.

Look, I've known Jimmy a long time. I knew him as a comic. I probably knew him a bit before the podcast. But you have to realize that at the time we started WTF, there was only a few podcasts out there that I knew of that were driven by comics, by guys I knew. Jimmy Pardo, Jimmy Dore, Todd Glass. Doug Benson, Kevin Smith was around,

Corolla was basically doing a radio show, and I know you guys have heard a lot of this stuff already, but Jimmy and I go way back, and his partner, Matt Bellknap, you know, they were putting together a network or a platform. And I think the point I'm trying to make is that I want people to realize that now that podcasting is a pervasive and popular medium, that at the beginning there was a core group of us

that we're trying to make podcasting work. We don't know what the future held. You know, Jimmy at that time was doing, and I think he still does. We talk about it. You know, you got a, you had a paywall set up, and there was conversations with Brandon and I about a paywall, and we were all just trying to figure it out,

but there was a community, Jesse Thorne, Chris Hardwick, later Rogan, a few months later, after me. But there was a community of us that were, you know, had each other's backs, we're doing each other's shows, we're operating as like-minded creatives that were doing a similar thing with a common medium. And we were all kind of in touch for years in terms of moving the medium forward, having a bit of group think about what should happen with the medium, certainly with the patent troll crisis. But we were always sort of in conversation one way or the other, either on each other shows or off the mics. And it was kind of

an amazing time considering where the medium has come and where we're all at now. And I just thought it would be fitting to honor Jimmy's part in it, to honor Jimmy's part in in sort of getting us going or at least showing us a template or a model of how this thing could work. And he's still at it. He's still funny. He's still one of the great podcasters. And he's here with us with us today. You can listen to his podcast, never not funny, wherever you get podcasts. And go to jimmyparto.com for his upcoming tour dates. Very funny comedian. And this is me and Jimmy having a chat here in the final days of WTF. Funny, I had Tracy Letts in here yesterday, the actor. He's an actor and a playwright.

You'd know who he is. Can I look up his photographs so I can enjoy the story? Sure, it wasn't really a story, but he had problems with his cock yesterday. Oh. On the air, he's readjusting his cock. I don't know if had something to do with me, but... It could be. Tracy Letts.

L-E-T-S. Oh, I know that guy's a good actor. Great. He was in that Lakers miniseries. Yeah, he's in a lot of things. And he was really good now. Yeah, yeah. I'm going to throw my phone off for this.

Okay, well, that's respectful. I don't think people turn it off on my show. I don't... You don't mind the ringing? Any interruptions, welcome. Oh, because you can just go with it? Yeah. Yeah, why not?

You know, we're all fighting for content. After 20 years? 20 years, Jim. 19. 19. We're coming up on 20. What am I coming up on? Less than that?

Well, I mean, you don't have to be... What's with the tone? No, there's no tone. I don't know. Is it right... Wait, left is always the chord, right? They're headphones. You put them on your head.

These? You mentioned the cock earlier, so I assumed that it had something to do with... Now, those are too high. That's too high for me. Well, you can adjust it. I see, there we go. Do you have a custom set at your studio that is only yours? I use the inside ear, like the monitor type.

Really? When did you make the jump? Ten years ago? Really? I don't... You know what it started? Because when I worked at Conan, and I would do the podcast and then have to go to Conan,

I didn't like having headphone hair. Yeah. So I started using the inner ears. Right, right. For that. Wait, what, I'm trying to remember which phase of Conan were you involved with? From day one of the Tonight Show, all through. Yeah.

Are we recording? Yeah, you know how this works. I don't know. Well, usually you do some sort of... What? I do that later. Yeah, but... Well, you want to ease into it so? I want you to make me feel comfortable.

Well, that's not all of, that's not what this is about. Yeah, I know. Well, if you remember, I think you're pretty comfortable. You're comfortable from when you walked up to the house. Yeah, 100%. Yeah. Here's the thing. Should I talk, Culver? Yeah. I did your show. This is a true story. I did the live Mark Merrin at the UCB. The day, the final day of the tonight show with Conan O'Brien. I left the studio, raced over to the UCB for a live WTF to do a live WTF and then went back to the. rap party afterwards. Uh-huh. Well, thank you for doing that. Well, you know, I did not know we were going to be losing our job at the Tonight Show. I did have Mark Barron WTF Live at the UCB on my calendar. Oh, so you didn't, it wasn't like we're not coming back. It's just the end of this season. No, we got fired. Okay. Don't you remember that. We all got fired because Jay Leno wanted his job back. No, I get it, but I didn't, I didn't realize you got fired, then you came to my house or to UCB. I got, we, we, yeah, it was the final show. Yeah. And then I raced over. Yeah. I did a little thing. you and I don't know who else was on the panel.

Did you let on that you were sad and shattered? You did a whole thing about you couldn't believe that I would leave the rap party to come and do your show. Oh. And you can't believe that on a day that we all lost our job, that I would still show up. Did I thank you? It sounds like you got a lot of good memories about this day. Well, it's not going to have the same impact on me as it's on you.

It was. I've done 1,600 of these things. And that was like Pearl Harbor for you that day. I'm going to tell you something. to your point. Somebody will say to me, hey, on the show, you said blah, blah, blah, blah.

And I go, I don't remember anything to happen on show. I've been doing this thing 19 years. They go, it happened Monday. Like, okay. Well, again, I've done a lot of shows. I don't, yeah, I'm in the same way. Because I, you know, once I talk,

it's out. You're in it. And then my producer takes the rest. So if you're just asking me to remember a conversation from, you know, 15 years ago, it's not going to happen. Me neither. So let's talk about the evolution.

I do have to give you a lot of credit because when we started this, which we're now kind of wrapping up, you were already dug in and doing it and an inspiration. Thank you. And you kind of had a, you set a precedent and you helped us in kind of figuring out how we were going to approach ours. You're really one of the OGs of this wave of podcasting. I am doing my best not to get emotional because that's very kind of you to say. Thank you. It's true. And I will say this publicly, and I do say it publicly on my show.

There are some folks that forget that I was in early on podcasting, and you never do. You give me credit everywhere you go, and it means the world to me. And people, you know, just like we have fans that are out in the world and they all like to report back. Sure. Hey, Marin was just on Smartless. He mentioned you. Hey, Marin was here. And then so-and-so was just on this show.

They gave credit to Chris Hardwick. They gave credit to so-and-so. And they're like, nope. Nope. Not you. And in fairness, Chris Hardwick always gives me credit, as does Scott Ackerman. There are some others that don't. And they're wrong.

And that's okay. Yeah. Well, I mean, where are those guys? Where's Hardwick? Are you in touch? No. No, I don't know. I hope he's well.

I'm sure he's fine. Does he host the wall still? I don't know. Maybe. I think he might be up in wherever it is up north, swimming in the Hearst Castle. Yeah, he's got a castle. Yeah, he splashes around while some night watch is over him. but let's talk like because

but when you talk about podcasting sometimes people will go they'll say like well Adam Curry well I mean Marconi did something too you know it's what you do with the unit but what do you have any idea

like I have no sense of because even when people call me OG I know that I was there you know after you but at the time where the medium was starting to get a little bit of attention but hardly any. Barely.

Yeah. Barely. And but a lot of people cite these other podcasts that were around before. I think it was even that accessible. Well, we had to listen on the computer. You did have to listen on your computer. There were there, you know, if we're talking strictly comedy,

Keith and the girl were doing something on the East Coast. Well, yeah, I give them credit sometimes, but not as, not as often as I should. I give them credit because they were before us. But Todd Glass, the brilliantly funny Todd Glass, in my opinion, said it best that, yes, there were other podcasts, but Jimmy Pardo was the first person with a name. that you knew who was doing a podcast. Right. And I think that's a good way to say it.

And I'm very grateful that my producer and co-hosed of this day, Matt Belknap, came to me with the idea. And, you know, we didn't know what we were doing. Yeah. And to me, I was between television jobs and let's give this thing a go. And it was a way, just like you, to express my point of view without a network telling me what to say or do. Sure. And, you know, we had an audience right away. And then people kind of then started thinking, well, what's a podcast?

and then other people started getting into podcasting, but still not knowing what it was. Yeah. And then he took off. Well, how do you, like, are you still all audio? No, no, we've been video for, we were, I think we were the first to do video. Really? We were one of the first new video.

No question about that. Yeah. Yeah. And are you still a paywall situation? Has that evolved? We have a, you get a, there's a free show every week and then there's a shows behind a paywall every week as well. Because I remember at the beginning, that was sort of like, you were the guy that,

that always had the paywall. That was your model. Well, here's the, here's the thing. And one could argue it was the greatest thing that we ever did. And one could argue it was the worst thing we ever did. We had been doing it for two years. And to your point from earlier, podcasting was still kind of like you'd invite somebody, hey, do you want to do my podcast?

What are we doing? They wouldn't know. And then they'd come and they would have a great time. But it still wasn't catching on. It still was questionable. You're on an iPod. You're on a computer. How are you listening to it?

And so, I had no idea. Oh, my dad still says, what's going on with the cast. Yeah, where do I get that? How do you watch it? And so he, we then were like,

well, you know what, and also, is this thing even going anywhere? Is podcasting a thing? Sure. So we made a decision back in 2008 to let's go behind a paywall. Let's decide to charge money for this.

And if that fails, then we'll just quit. Yeah. And then luckily enough, a big enough audience followed with the paywall. Yeah. But then we're behind the paywall. Yeah.

And then in 2009, the comedy podcast boom exploded. Yeah. And Jimmy Pardo, who started it all, is behind a paywall and is not being included in any press or anything. Locked in a prison of his own making. It really was. So, again, one could argue it was the greatest thing because I was able to buy a house because of it. Yeah.

But I also then was left behind as kind of the beta tape while you guys with VHS move forward. And, you know, you and Ackerman and, you know, Hardwick again and others that were very popular at that time. who was it let's think about it like rogan well he started a few months right Jay Moore Kevin Smith right Doug Benson oh Doug was there Doug was in it right after we were so Doug

Doug's kind of one of the OGs as well yeah because I'm trying to sort of remember like you know when we all had to communicate with each other and do each other's shows it was very incestuous for a while I don't know if it was incestuous I feel like it was a community thing you know I like that positive spin on it

Well, yeah, I mean, we didn't really know how to get other guests, but we knew that the comedy community was big enough. I always reflect on that because when I started, it was primarily comics, who I needed to apologize to or sort things out with. But I do remember, and I don't think people realize it, that you guys were there. So you stayed with the paywall. We stayed with the paywall for, I think, four to five years and then Earwolf, who had been courting us, Airwolf, the network Earwolf. Once Scott and Jeff created that. Yes. And they had been courting us for years.

And then we finally were like, we have to grow. We are doing very well. Again, I bought a house. Yeah. We're doing very well. But we're also plateauing. Yeah. We need to do something.

So let's take a risk and go to a free episode a week plus the paywall. And luckily that has worked out as well. And that will that then mid-roll evolved. So you were able to get advertised. Yeah. We had advertising for the free show. Yeah. And then subscribers for the other.

But like, so let's go back to. when, so you've got your thing going. You're the, you know, you're one of the only guys. You got an income. You got a payroll. And you say 2009 comedy podcast blew up, but still nobody was making money. Nobody was making money. Well,

luckily we were. That's right. So that's why you held your ground. That's why we held our ground. Exactly. So, but your feeling was, you know, fuck. Well, my feeling was, oh my God, I'm getting left behind. I was like this leader of this. Yeah. And I'm getting left behind. Yeah.

And admittedly, I was, I mean, your show welcomes this kind of talk. I got a little jealous. Yeah. I got a little bitter. Welcomes this guy to talk. That's all I talk about. I mean, that's, I mean, that's the truth is like. You got bitter?

I did get a little bitter. I got a little bitter that, like, here's all these, you know, online, you know, they're doing the best podcast of the year. The, here's the hot comedy podcast. Here's the ones that open up the door for others. And no one knows you're out there. And nobody knows we're out there, except you and Ackerman and others giving me credit. to the people writing the article, but the person writing the article

doesn't then do the legwork of then like, well, hey, three people have mentioned Jimmy Pardo. But it wasn't talking to Jimmy Pardo. Right. And they never would. So did this, it fit their narrative? Did this strain your life? Was there, did it cause trouble?

Were you running around the house going, fuck out in the yard, you know, hitting things? That seems extreme, but in my brain I was doing all that. I was. I did. And, but again, at the same time, how do you bitch that it's not going well when it's going well?

Well, because there's something about us that, you know, because I think we're infantile. Yes. If we're not getting the validation. I want the pat on the head. That's the truth. I want the fucking pat on the head. This is your pat on the head, Jimmy. Thank you.

And I mean this sincerely. I've said it before. I am flattered that you always mentioned me as an inspiration. And I'm honored that while you're wrapping up your show, I'm going to get emotional, that you contacted me to be one of your final guests. It means the world to me. I want you to know that. Oh, thank you.

I did, I thought it was, uh, uh, I wanted to do it. Well, thank you. And I said to my, I said to my son Oliver, who's a, who's a old's that kid now? He is a freshman in high, I'm sorry, freshman in college. Isn't that crazy? He's brilliantly funny. Yeah? He's, he's, he's, he's, it's inevitable.

He's got it. Okay, okay. And you know it's a comedian. Yeah. I'm not just saying this as his dad. Yeah. I'm saying it as a comedian. Yeah.

When you see a guy to do stand up or do any comedy. He's doing stand up? He's got to get out of this. He's got no business. He needs to be in the business. But you know who I said that about? Who's that? Jeff Ross.

I said that about. You've made some mistakes. You've made some errors in your time. But yes, he's very talented. But I said it. I was just on the phone with him seconds ago. We were talking about a movie. But he said, what are you doing?

I go, I'm going over to do Mark Merritt's podcast. And he goes, who's that? I go, the guy from sticks. Uh-huh. And then he said, the band? I go, no, the golf television. Wow. He's very hurtful.

My son does not care for you or your comedy. Very hurtful. Very hurtful. He said, is that the guy that had Obama on his podcast? I said, yes. The fact that he can know sticks to band and not know me. And why would he, how did he, why would he know sticks to band? You?

His dad's a classic rock idiot. Yeah. He, uh, there's, like what stick songs? What do you mean? He knows them all. Like, uh, lady. He knows. And, uh, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, da, dun.

And what are some of the other stick songs? Grand illusion's a big hit. Oh, yeah, yeah. Fooling yourself. Which one? Uh, you're fooling yourself and you don't believe it. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They've got...

What are we? The same age? How old are you? I'm younger than you by about 15 years. Wow. You just stopped aging? Is that the same as a paywall? You decided at some point,

I'm gonna lock it down. It's working. I might as well stay here and they get bitter about other people looking quick. I haven't thought about sticks in a while. I, uh... I saw him in concert, you know.

I've seen them probably 55 times. Come on. Yeah, they're one of my favorite bands. Really? Yeah. You're a proggy guy? I do. Murilli is one of my favorite bands.

I remember saw him once in the Seats weren't good. Marillion or sticks? No, sticks. Yeah. I saw sticks and it was far away and it was on the Grand Illusion tour. 1970. Right.

So I was still in high school. Yep. That makes sense. Like maybe a freshman or sophomore. So you are a little older than me. I'm 61. Happy birthday. Next month.

Or this month. I'm going to be 62 in 10 days. Here comes the cake. How are, happy birthday. How old are you? I am 59. Okay, so yeah, we're in the same zone. Same ballpark.

So your kid, is he getting on stage? Yeah, he's done some, he's done stand up at flappers, a bunch in Burbank. Really? And then he's done some gigs with me down, like in San Diego. Really? And, yeah. He opens for you? He goes up and does 10 minutes.

Do you change his name? I told him, go up and use your first and middle name so that they don't know you're the headliner's kid. Yeah. And then he's like, I don't care. Yeah. I'm like, okay, if you don't care. I don't wait until he gets big because, you know, you start dropping the word named Pardo around. Shake this thing loose fat.

That's right. Shake this thing. You're not going to have a nepo baby situation. Don't have this albatrosser on your neck, son. You don't want that. Start fresh. But do you give him notes? I do give him notes.

Yeah. And he listens? Yeah. He's a better joke writer than I am. Oh. You know, so, but I still, I know, he's a better joke writer, but I've always been able to help people tighten the screws on jokes. Yeah.

And so, like, he'll have the, he'll do it on stage. And I'll go, hey, you know what work? Let's move this here. Let's move this here. And what do you think about this is a callback? Yeah. Oh, and then he tries it. It works or it doesn't.

Yeah, sure. And it's pretty cool. And it's okay if he's bombing in front of his dad. Oh, no. No, that's stress, man. As his dad, I'm in the back of the room. Like, if you see another guy bomb, a comic friend. That's the other side of using your name.

It's like, distant cousin. Just to coincidence. Carter's very common show of his name. But he's doing great. And I just started freshman year down at Chapman University. You got another one too, right? No, no, just him. Just him.

Yeah, so we're empty next year. Danielle and I. Huh? We're empty nesters. How's that going? Oh, sad and depressing. Is it? Oh, it's horrible.

Yeah. Why? Because you get in nowhere a little bit? Well, she's getting her on me. She doesn't care for me. You know, when you only have an only child, and he is so aligned comedically with the two of us. Yeah. And we go to the movie.

We like the same movies. We like this. And so we would move together as this unit. And then he leaves, and it's only been a month. Yeah. It's, the house is lonely. It's empty. I bet. I feel like the last time we ever had a conversation was you needed a handyman.

Oh, you thought you, about Ernie? Ernie. Yeah. Ernie was in the wind the last time we talked. In the wind? Yeah, because we couldn't locate Ernie. And so I'd like to say that Ernie's in the wind. Did he do some, he did some work. He's done great work over the years from me. Yeah. And that was a long time ago. I have not seen him. He and I went to, coincidentally, went to see the cars in concerts. You and Ernie.

And nobody was more angry at how bad that show was than Ernie. Oh, really? Ernie's favorite band of all time was the cars. Yeah. He had never seen them live. Yeah. Couldn't believe. leave that they reunited so he could see them. Oh, how much was left? Was it just Elliot Easton? It was everybody but

Benjamin Orr. It was everybody in Calaisic was still alive. Yeah. Okay. And the show was absolutely atrocious. It was really boring. Was it outside? It was at the platoom. Okay. And Ernie the next day was like, you know, he's back to work on my house. Livid. And he's like, that thing was that was a

waste of my money. I ruined my memories of that band. And he wasn't wrong. Wow. That's something. To ruin your memory of a band. Yeah, that's how bad they were. Well, I've never really thought of that approach to my criticism of boomer rock in the sense that, like, I don't go see a lot of it because I think that that that's a possibility. Like, I see footage of ACDC right now and I'm like, yeah, it's a hard pass on that. I saw them on their Black Train tour, ACDC, and I think I saw them at their

last great tour. Yeah. And I don't need to see them again because of that. That'll actually alter your good feelings. It will. About the band. Yes. I don't want to leave there going, Yeah, they went on too long. I'm in a fight with that right now with the band Chicago. You know, that's my favorite band of all time. How many are left of them? One. But you can't, like, like, for me, it's sort of like, there would never be a time I could see Chicago

where they would have been as good as they were with Terry Kat. Well, they were great in the 80s and 90s. I'm not going to dismiss that era. Okay, all right, because of the horns. I've seen them, this is no, no lie, 112 times. I just saw them last Friday for the 112th time. And? And it's the first time that.

I left going, I don't think I can keep doing this because I don't want to remember them this way. Yeah. They're great. They're a bunch of session musicians doing those great songs that you love. Sure. But the magic of me going there like I did in 1981 when I saw them for the first time, it got chills. Right. And that I had chills for 30 years seeing them.

Yeah. And to your point, I walked out going, those songs don't bring me joy. I'm glad I went, but that might be it. No chills. No chills. No chills. No chills. So you really go see a lot of music.

I love it. You know, I don't do that. It's my, it's my hobby. I went to, like, I saw the flaming lips. For me, it's like, it's got to be, I got to be set up. Yeah. I got to have a good seat. Right.

I got to leave, you know, when they go off stage the first time. Yeah. I don't want to battle traffic. And, you know, I'm good for having a good time for about 45 minutes. Then you're out. Well, then I'm sort of like, all right. You got it. Yeah, I got it.

You're a little hipper than me, though. No, that's not sure. It's not hipness. It's really just anxiety. Well, that part of it is anxiety. and I don't disagree with that anxiety. As far as the bands, I see really nothing but

bands that will stop in the next five years and that I will have no shows to go to. Right. With the exception of Dawes, who I adore. You're like a Dawes guy. Wow, I've got to get into that too. Taylor Goldsmith is maybe one of the greatest songwriters of all time. Their amp guy have helped me fix that amp down there.

Is that right? Yeah, it had nothing to do with Dawes, but the guy who fixed my amp fixes theirs. Well, yeah, that's something. Something. Is that the only new band? you like? I'm not, I try. I do love Taylor Swift. You can't deny that she's a great singer songwriter. Sure, sure. So I, I enjoy her and Dawes and then otherwise. Not in the loop.

I'm a classic rock guy. I find that I, when I, when I, that 80s, you know, that 80s sound. Sure. Sure. Yeah, I guess so. Were you a Toto guy? You know what, here's the thing. I like them on record, but live, they're just okay to me. So I don't need to see Toto live. I've seen them a bunch in my life, but they were just here at the forum, and I did not go, because I've seen them. It's so weird. Super Tramp? I like them the same as ELO, where, like, you know what? These 10 songs are great, but okay.

Right. But you give other, like, you know, eight song bands, a pass if you like them. Yeah. I mean, 10 songs is a lot of songs. A lot of songs. Foreigner? I joke with my son. That's his favorite band.

It is not. Stop it. Oh. But we've seen them a bunch. Yeah. I've dragged him to see foreigner a bunch. I love them. And what are you getting out of that?

Hot-blooded? You get hot-blooded? You get cold as ice. Feels like the first time. Oh, it feels like the first time, yeah. Those are great songs, dude. Head games? Head games.

They're great. I mean, I have no shame in liking class around. For years, I hit it. I'm not laughing at you. I don't know. It sounds like you are. No, because when I was, during that era in high school, so you graduated in what, 83? 84.

84. I graduated in 81. So you were in junior high, which is a better time for all this shit to be happening. But when I was in high school, you know, foreigner was huge. Van Halen 1 happened. Yeah. You know, there was still a lot of Bob Seeger around for some reason. Bob's a good singer-songwriter.

Great. No, I got no problem with it. And you were on the East Coast, right? Nope. New Mexico. Oh, I thought you were East Coast. So, Sid. Because Sammy Hagar was huge on the East Coast.

I saw Sammy Hagar in concert. You loved him. I saw him do that first tour, Red, for the album Red. That's a good song. Yeah. And then he does that mantra song, the Bad Motor Scooter. Dude. It sits on that block with the lap steel.

Uh-huh. Remember? Great song. Sure. And rock candy is a great song? Yeah. Look, I witnessed it all. Yeah.

But I sometimes feel like it was, you know, I was attacked by it every day. And that, you know, I know all the songs. I don't know that I bought the records, but certainly you couldn't avoid the songs. Right. So I feel like I was, it was almost like I was, what do you call it? what do you inundated but what you

assaulted assaulted but what's the one where you you convince someone they're crazy or you may wash no no when it's it happens in relationship

oh gaslight I believe I was gaslight you were gaslit but classic rock a little bit you think you were classic rock classic rock clasolet you sure a little bit I don't know how that's possible

but I hear what you're saying by the way can we turn my headphones up just a tad yeah sure old man how's that better can I tell you something about about old man? Yeah. Is that good? Yeah, it's perfect. Two years ago,

I'm sitting on the couch. My wife and son and I were watching television, and I get, for years, because I, you know, I've listening to rock music, I would get to Tinnitus every now and then with that little whistle, and it would whistle and go away. And so when people say they suffer from Tinnitus, I'd be like, so, who cares about that? It comes

and goes. Sure. So I'm on the couch, and the whistle comes, and the whistle doesn't leave. And then I say, hey, did you guys just turn the sound of the TV off? And they went, no. I went deaf for about minutes. Really? And then the next day I was rushed and they gave me an injection into my ear and they saved

my hearing. So yes, my hearing is not as good as it was two years ago. Well, what the fuck was it? What do you mean they gave you an injection in your ear? Four injections of steroids into my ear. Oh, closed up on you. No. Old manny.

Losing hearing. I never had tinnitus, but I had some, like there was a period there where my left ears sounded like a busted speaker. Yes. It would go, you know, like it would, it would rattle. And so what did they do to do to solve that? There was nothing to do. I went to the ear doctor, and he's like, I don't see anything wrong with it.

And then eventually, you know, if you're lucky, almost, I would say 50% of the stuff that this, that happens. If you give it a little time, it'll go away. It works at stuff. Yeah, but I was so afraid that. Or you live with it. I thought I was deaf. So I think these earphones have a vacuum to them. I think there's something about.

They suck it in. A little bit. Is that possible? I don't know. You know, I would talk to about your ear and hear me out of the end. Okay. The amp guy from Dawes. This guy's all about the sound system.

But the old man thing I had a little about with it last night. What happened, brother? I was at Largo. Joe Mandy, one, I had him, you know, Flanny had me come down to Joe Mandy show. Yeah. And I get there at 8 and they're like, you're closing. And it's Joe and three other acts. So I'm waiting around.

And, well, a couple old man things happened. Uh-huh. Is that I napped. You napped while the other comments were up. Yeah. Yeah, right backstage. like not even in the dressing room on that couch backstage at Largo. So they could look over to the left and see the international podcaster, Star of Sticks.

Yeah, yeah, napping. Napping. And I think James Austin Johnson, he apparently told Flanny that, you know, should we check on him? Should we poke him? You took a nap. But I took a nap. But then when I was in and out of consciousness, I just heard these younger comics killing. Yeah.

And I got nothing right now because I just did a special. And now I'm closing. and all that fucking insecurity came on me. Well, yeah, you remember when you were doing open mics and you'd get the last slot on an open mic? And, you know, you've already watched most of the audience go. Yes. And then the host comes out and goes,

you guys okay for one more guy? We got one more guy. Yeah. I have one more guy. I had that. You had that energy? Or you had that in your head prior? In my head.

It's like, you guys, don't leave yet. We got one more guy. Yeah. That energy. You felt that they had already seen enough show. And now here's the guy from Globe. That's it. The stand-up comic who just did an HBO special.

Yeah, same guy. So I let two of them in. I mean, I took two of your shots. They're not, you must know this. And we talk about it at my award-winning podcast, Number Not Funny, you're terrific on both those shows, 19 years. You are on both glow. You are phenomenal on glow.

You brought me to tears on glow. No, thanks. That's the truth. I'm not saying that because you're in front of me. I said on the program. Thank you. And then sticks. Yeah.

That's an unwatchable show. But you're fantastic. Oh, thank you. A lot of people like it. Yeah, they're not watching it properly. Are you a golf guy? I had a golf lesson today. Really?

Yeah. I used to be on a golf team in high school. That's how good I was. And I've lost it. How much have you lost? All of it? To where this guy is like, you're not doing bad for a guy who's starting. I'm not starting.

I've been playing for 40 years. Where do you golf? Whoever anybody invites me? Really? Yeah. I'm not good anymore. I, well, back to what I was saying. Finish your Largo story.

Well, I realize that, you know, all of my jokes, you know, if you look at your jokes, like, you know, I haven't checked in with you in a long time. Yeah. But over the course of my last few specials, you know, which I think got better. I think I'm the best, I did the best one I could do. And but like I realize that, like, I'm talking about the same things. So it's all from my point of view. And I'm talking about, you know, the same themes.

And there comes to a point where it's like, dude, I think the well is dry. you better start looking outside yourself you know but like I'm like you I mean I'm not classic rock guy specifically but I feel a little out of the loop I can comment broadly on things but most of the stuff that I do is comes from inside of me

because I thought that was the only way I could do it where no one could take it and I wouldn't be competing with anybody well I listen I'm gonna say this as a as your friend you don't see each other often enough but I would consider you a friend I say this as your friend and a fan of your comedy yeah get out of your because you're doing great work. But that's where it all comes from.

Of course. Of course. But you're worried about that you're repeating yourself, that you're doing the same themes and stuff. No, you're doing great work. The specials are terrific. Well, thank you. I did not expect to come here and kiss your ass like this.

I don't care for it. Yeah. It's uncomfortable for me too. What was the clip that was going around recently? With Theo Von, Hitler and Theo Von. Dude, in 45 seconds, just perfection. Just perfection. Thank you.

Well, that makes me feel better. I guess I'll keep doing it. No, you're supposed to be quitting. Get out of my way. This is your time, Jimmy. It's not my time. It's Jason Pateman's time. Is it?

It's a good thing the movie stars are doing it. But you know what's weird is that, like, the one benefit of algorithm-driven entertainment is none of us really know how anyone's doing. I mean, you know, they may get a lot of attention. They're filling the Hollywood Bowl. I think they're doing okay. But that's because they're celebrities. They fill the Hollywood Bowl? Well, yeah, they're coming up at the Hollywood Bowl.

I don't know if they filled it. It hasn't happened yet. There can be six people. Who goes to those shows? Could you imagine sitting at the very last row of the Hollywood Bowl watching a podcast? I can't imagine sitting for any podcast. I mean, I used to do a live podcast, and I didn't know why they were there. They're there.

They're excited because you're in their ears twice a week or what's. And they want to see it happen in real time. Yeah. Although, can we agree on this? The live shows are never the same as what they enjoy that we do in the studio. But I think to speak to your point, they like seeing us. I think so. Yeah, I mean, I shouldn't begrudgy audience.

But I used to think that, too. it's like, who would go to comedy? So how does your set go at Largo? It probably went fine. It was fine, but like I, and I realize this is part of the process for me, is that like when I dump the hour, which I do, once it airs, once it's out there, everyone can see it, I start pretty much new. And I think I forget what that feels like.

It's a very vulnerable, kind of frightening, draining feeling to just go up for 15 minutes and go like, I got to do all new. But can I ask you a question? why do you think you have to do all new? Because like, for instance, let's use your Theo Von Hitler as an example. If I'm coming to see, oh, good, Mark Merrin's hair. Maybe he'll do the Theo Von bit. Maybe he'll do the Theo Vaughn bit.

And I would be excited to hear it. So why do you think you've got to discard that material? I mean, you and I've been doing, you and I've been doing it in the way. Yeah. And I hear you. I like to keep my show fresh. And I do that by not writing any jokes and just doing, just improvising my hour every night. Crowdwork?

It's all, crowdwork, but not in the Matt Rife shitty kind of way. I'm doing it in the way that it's supposed to be done. done, not... Which is how? Cleverly. Oh. You know, not I want to fuck your aunt. You know what I mean?

Yeah. So, I don't know that kid. He seems like a nice kid. He's mad at me constantly because I... I kind of... I guess I poke at him. Yeah, because he's got a chisel jaw. Get out of comedy.

Yeah, yeah. So I remember one time I was walking years ago before I had any TV. I was in New York. It's probably the late 80s. And, you know, I'm wandering around the East Village with C.K., you know. And he was, you know, he was hadn't, I don't think he had done his first wetterman yet. And he was all worked up about Jay Moore because Jay Moore came in from Jersey. He was like 17 years old.

And he was a cute kid, you know, and he's real charming. You know, Jay, back in, I don't know if you knew him back then. But Louis was like, it's not for him. It's not for the attractive guys. It's not, they're superviour. It's for us. And part of me was like, what do you mean us? What do you mean us?

I'm kind of a good looking guy. Yeah, he looked all right? Trying to get by like anybody else? That's hysterical. You know, I used to say that about back in the day, it used to infuriate me. It was like Gary Goldman would get on stage. And he would talk about how he had a tough time in high school.

Like, tough time, you're tall and gorgeous. Yeah, yeah. And then he's become one of the best end of comics of all time, in my opinion, Gary Goldman. And watching that transition of going, oh, I misjudged him. I did judge a book by its cover. Sure. By this tall, good-looking guy with a gorgeous head of hair.

Yeah. Well, he can't possibly. It's not for him. Yeah. Go be your model. Yeah. And let me five foot four nerd get the laughs. Yeah.

Yeah, well, you were wrong about that guy. Oh, my God. Yeah. I'm wrong about a lot of people. Yeah. I think that's good. I mean, like, I'm right about a lot, too. In all honesty, I don't, when I criticize, and I think we can talk about this with

podcasting, too, you know, when I criticize other comics for, it's not coming out of some personal resentment at this time. It's coming out of, you know, what does it do to our field? Dude, can I jump in right here? Yeah. That is how I feel. So when you ask me about, am I doing an hour of crowdwork? Yeah.

What does it do to our field? Yeah. I am currently furious. Yeah. At everybody putting clips of, here's my crowdwork from this set. Here's my crowdwork from this set. Hey, I've got to work on my crowdwork. No, do what you do.

Yeah. This is what I do. This is what made me and Todd Barry special. Yeah. We would go out, and Todd Barry, by the way, who is one of the best, joke artists of all time, but also is a great crowdwork guy. There's guys that are great at crowdwork. Yeah, and Rick Ingram.

I don't know Rick, but I'll take your word for it. Yeah, he's a comedy store guy. Crowdwork guy. Old school. It's what we do. Well, I mean, I'm 59. I'm talking about Rick. He's younger, but he does it in a way where it's kind of smart and you see.

Yeah, yeah. So the part of way. Yeah. I guess that's my point. What is it doing to our craft? And so I get, in fact, I was just at the, at the mic drop in Chandler, Arizona over the weekend on Sunday night. And the management.

Brackert. Come on. Yeah. Six p.m. show. I'm doing a matinee. I don't know how much I'm bragging. But they were a great crowd, and I was grateful that they showed up. But the management was very kind afterwards.

And to your point from earlier, we still need to hear this. They were like, you know, so many guys are doing crowdwork, not like what I just saw. Right. And it means the world to me that they, that at least they can see the difference of, oh, this guy's doing it, interestingly. Yeah. Everybody else is doing it because that seems to be the easy way to get laughs nowadays. Yeah. Yeah.

just find it lazy and I don't find it funny. And so I don't like what it's doing to our craft right now. So when people go, oh, part of a crowdwork guy, not like those other people. Yeah. And also just the, you know, chasing the likes and the job of getting clips up and everything else. You know, look, I work improvisationally. I don't, I don't do a lot of crowd work unless I feel embarrassed in a moment.

Is that true? Yeah, yeah. I mean, I know how to do it. But I'm usually, you know, it can get pretty spiteful pretty quickly. Okay. And I'll talk to the people and sometimes, but usually it's when, you know, an audience member has gotten the best of me or I fuck something up. Like last night I was on stage at Largo and, you know, I wasn't paying attention because I was like locked into the bit and I was moving around. And the stool, I knocked into the stool and it fell over.

And somehow or another, the mic court had gotten tangled in one of the rungs on the stool and I couldn't figure out why. How does it get in there? Yeah. And then I picked up the stool and I was like, how did this happen? And then I said, I'm closing with magic. Right, but very happy about that. Of course you were. You kidding me?

I would then, if that were me, I would figure out a way to go like, how do I wrap the court around the store every night? That's my new closer. That's the big closer. How do I, while they're not, well, I'm over here talking, how do I wrap it around the lake? What happened to all the guys, man? What do you mean? Do you, are you starting to feel like, you know, there are guys in our generation where it's like, I don't know what happened to that guy? I mean, we're talking about Jimmy Dorr, but he's still at it.

You mean that they've gone nuts? Well, no, there's that, but just sort of disappeared. Do you know anybody? You and I talked about this a little bit before we got on the air. Yeah. I'm so locked into Never Not Funny. Yeah. And booking that show and doing that show that, and I don't do a lot of stand-up around town.

Yeah. So I don't know the young people. Sure. And I also don't have a chance to run into the old people. Thousands of young people. But weren't we? Weren't we one of the thousands of when we were young? Yeah, I'm trying to tell you.

I just, I felt old because of these young guns. do too. When I go on a show like that and it's like I feel like what what about I have nothing to offer. But then I realize like you probably realized, but I'm also really fucking good at this. Yeah. And so I'm going to bring them. I'm going to do something they did they yes, they just saw four great comedians. Yeah. But now they're going to see me. That's nice. And then I get my car and go, I think I let them down. Yeah, yeah. And I drive home with the Danielle's like how to go. I don't know. Sometimes I just can't. And I think I must do it to myself on purpose. Sometimes I just cannot detach from the bad set. Like, you know, It won't last a long time.

When's the last time you had a bad set? A bad one? Yeah, let's be honest. A tanker. It's got to be 20 years. No, no. I had one. There's only one that I really remember.

But how recent? It was probably three or four years ago. You know, I was in New York and you hadn't been in New York in a long time. And I got a, I did a spot at the comedy cellar, but the, not the, not the, the old room, but around the corner. And I didn't have my New York Dukes up. And I went on after soda. and it was just real flat. It wasn't silence,

but it was flat enough for me to feel that sweat on the back of my neck. Yeah. Because, like, I, you know, I have the, the kind of physical ability to pretend like I'm not bombing, but the inside doesn't lie. Yeah.

Well, I know. Felt that sweat. So that's a bad feeling. That is a horrible feeling. Yeah. And last night I was sort of, like, setting myself up to fail, but I couldn't do it.

I don't see you failing. I appreciate that. I see them getting excited to see you. and even your story about being at the cellar. It confuses me. Yeah. Well, it was just... I think you're a guy.

I don't know why I'm doing this today. Yeah. There's all this boosting your ego business. But I'm a little fragile. This is just last night. Well, you seem to me like a guy who is a fail safe. Yeah. Like, oh, we got, you know, Marin's coming up.

No matter what. Even if the guy kills, oh, good, Merrin's next. He's going to kill two. Or if the guy before you goes, oh, yeah, he struggled. Sure. Well, good. Here's Merrin to bring it back. Well, right now I'll tell you, there's some, a Marin within me that

saying, don't listen to this guy. Oh. You got to fucking work harder. You stink. Well, that guy's not wrong either. Yeah. I'm kidding. So let's talk about the, the, what's happened with podcasting.

Like, how many, okay, so if we, we can't identify comics that have disappeared, how many sort of dead abandoned podcasts are there out there? There are a gazillion of those. But there's also tens of thousands of podcasts happening. But think about when we, when you and I first exploded, And then every comic, it was almost like when Dane Cook, remember when Dane Cook did MySpace? And every comic went, oh, I'm going to get a Myspace. That's the secret to being successful.

And then you had to figure out how to get followers on MySpace. And then you had to call a certain guy to like, you know, can you give me those? Can you remember? I do. You know who I'm talking about? About getting followers for you? Yeah. Yeah.

Did I do that for a while? I did it for one month and I felt so badly about it. Because they were all like, you know, these weird, most of them were from Thailand, I think. And who, I don't know what it was. Oh, good. You've got all those. But in your brain, you know it's phony. No, I knew it was phony, but I knew that other people were doing it, and I didn't

know how it really worked. And now you have, you know, bots and everything. And I didn't know what it meant, but you just want that number to be a little. They weren't going to help you fan-wise. No, no, but you wanted that number in case somebody from the quote-unquote industry, we go, oh, should we get Mark Miron? I don't know. He's only got this many followers.

But my space didn't even work like that. It was just an ego thing. Yes. Like, how do you, I didn't even really commit to my space, but there was a time there where we had to do it. Oh, yeah. And it wasn't easy to get shit up there. But, you know, Dane kind of fucked us all of them.

He was the guy that, you know, that started this cancer of interacting with technology in a compulsive way to where, like, I don't do it anymore. Like, I have somebody post my clips, but these younger comics, you know, God bless them, I guess. But the game is so different that they spend all their time, you know, editing clips and trying to get that up there. I know. You know, for these, like, one minute long things. So I, but again, they're working a different landscape than you and I did when we started. We used to have to send VHS tapes out to get bookings. They now can go, here's my one minute clip of, you know, that has one million views,

please book me. And then they have 12 minutes and they suck. Yeah. But Cravitz, you know, Steve Kravitz? I know that, yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. He's an older comic now, a little older than me. But I remember just a couple years ago, he came out of the fog at the comedy store. I'm like, what's going on, Cravitz?

How's it going? This is like, I would say maybe four or five years ago. He goes, I don't know what's going on. I don't even know where to send my tape. I'm like, back to 1992. That, boy, yeah, set it back there. If they could figure it out how to plug in the machine. But your point of podcasting is, what I was going to say is about MySpace and comparing

it to that was, here's Pardo and Ackerman and Merrin and, you know, Paul of Tompkins had one at the time and other folks. Oh, yeah. And then people are like, oh, that, I got to get a podcast. Right. That's the next step. And then it's like, and then it didn't happen. So to your point, then there's all these abandoned podcasts because they didn't

explode like we did. Well, there was no way to make money. Or to get an audience if nobody knows who you are. Yeah. Just because you have one, doesn't mean people are going to listen to it. I know. And that still happens. Yeah. People ask me now, it's like I'm going to start a podcast. But I don't do, I don't even do video. So like, I'm, I'm analog. But I, they said, do you have any pointers? I'm like, don't, don't expect much. Yeah. I mean, my advice is always have, have a niche topic. Yeah. You know, because we've covered the white guys sitting around Riffin. Have a niche topic.

That's what people want now. I guess so. Because there's already enough of us riffing. Yeah, just like yammering white guys. Yeah. And I'm one of them. Yeah. And I'm very grateful that people care.

So, do you have you held your audience? Yeah. We lost a lot in 2016. We lost a lot in 2016 when I decided to stop worrying about offending people politically. Yeah. And I just went, I don't, this guy's an asshole. We're fucked with this guy in charge. how you morons did not vote for Hillary is beyond me.

And you think that you're being clever, but let's blow it all up and no. Yeah. And I just, and then people are like, you're losing half your audience. See you later. Really?

I don't care. Yeah. You know, take the others with you. Yeah. Go. And you still feel good about that now? I do.

Yeah. I feel good about it. And we still get, I still get hate letters every now and then because of it. Like, hey, hey, you know what? You're pissing people off with what you said about this or what you said. Yeah.

Good. We're doing a lot of talking. We have to talk about something. sometimes. And I'm also about my life. You've come to the Jimmy Pardo show, and I'm talking about my life, and this is what my life is right now. Yeah. And I'm supposed to ignore it and just be a frightened and angry. A hundred percent. Aren't you? How can we not be frightened and angry right now? Yeah. It's a, we're living in weird times. And yes, you come to a podcast like my stupid show, which is, you know, does have a lot of silliness, a lot of classic rock and a lot of 80s references. And we have fun. Yeah. But at the same time, if something happens in the news, I'm not going to ignore it. Sure. And then, you know, Hey, I come to your show to get away from it. Yeah. Well, then don't. Yeah, yeah.

Then find another show to get away from it. I'm not a vacation. Right? Yeah. So we did lose a lot in 2016. Wow. I mean, and a lot. Wow.

But I don't feel badly about it. Yeah. And look, as a guy who's, you know, stopping his podcast, I mean, like, now, like, how do you feel about, you know, do you ever feel like, I think it's worn out? You know what, obviously there's days where I think like, what are we doing? But then an hour later, I'll go, you know what? I go there. I never, I never don't, I never feel like, oh, I got to go to work.

Yeah. I enjoy, I hate the drive. I have to drive an hour to my studio and it's infuriating. No, you don't. I do. Why did you let that happen? Where the fuck is your studio? It's in Sherman Oaks.

And we. Where are you? I'm down in Baldwin Hills near Culver City. Wow. And so we open. We did our studio there because, again, at the time I was working for Conan. Yeah. And so I would, and that was in the Valley.

Yeah. So I would go to the podcast and then go to Conan. It was like, oh, this is very convenient. And also the other cast members all lived down to that area. You know, my co-host and my video guy and our intern of 14 years. Yeah. You're paying him, though. Is it a living wage?

No, we do pay them. Yes, of course. The, so that's why. That's why the studio is there. But I don't like the drive, but I don't. I'd never say, oh, I got to go to work. I look forward to going because it's, it's this. Yeah, and you lock in.

And you have fun. You get into the manic zone. Yeah. Yeah. I haven't joined the guestless shows more often. How have you been doing with guests? We don't find. Yeah.

I mean, we don't book famous people as much as we used to because, you know. Everyone's got a podcast. You know, you can't be with Conan O'Brien to Smartless. They're going to get the famous people. Yeah. And, but I don't, I just want funny people. Yeah. I want interesting people.

Yeah. And then if we can't get that, we'll do a show with just the cast, and people seem to enjoy those too. Sure. And a lot of people like don't like... Todd Glass, Paul F. Tompkins, you know, Scott, you know, the people that have been doing the show literally since it was at my dining room table.

How's Ackerman? You know, Scott, he's great. I enjoy, I love him the death when he shows up. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, the dining room table. I remember in my old garage, I had this table and just my MacBook and one of these mics, you know, in a, like, on a stump, a little stand.

Yeah. Yeah. Just sitting there and it wasn't even put together. It was just a real garage, just garbage. Yeah. Just stuff that didn't fit in the house. And that's what you brought the president into. No, by that time, it was a thing.

It was a place. I had the mic boom. You set it up. And there was, you know, everything was, you know, it was a very unique. Right. You were in that garage. I wasn't in that garage. But, like, why are you not exhausted by it all?

And I am. Um, I don't have sitcoms like you. Oh, right. That might play into it. Yeah. You know, I still, I still enjoy doing it. And it's my outlet to be funny. It's my outlet to be creative.

Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel that too. So it's that. Yeah. I just, I feel like, you know, there's, when I do these interviews and I talk about, you know, what podcast has become, it's so weird to me that. And I didn't get into it specifically for money. I didn't believe that there was money to be made.

I needed to keep working. Right. And doing something creative. And then, like you said, there was a period there where it got popular, but it still was not any guarantee of making a living. But it was on the radar. But it took like a decade before people were like, I know what a podcast is. Do you remember when you and me and Aisha Tyler were on the cover of Billboard magazine? Yeah.

And the podcast boom. And people still didn't know what a podcast was. But we were on the cover of Billboard magazine. Yeah. They were pushing it. Right. But it still didn't quite take. Yeah.

And then, like, I don't know how involved you were with that patent troll. Yeah. We were part of that. Why know? Because I was at Bell Knapp because he had started, he was starting a thing. What was it? It had a number in it, the platform. Oh my God.

Art 19. Yeah, Art 19. Yeah. And like in like I don't, I wish somebody, to me that, that movie about the patent troll thing is equally as exciting as Apollo 13. That if we could just get people to play that core group of podcasters that were, you know, written this letter that we were using a patent in our technology, that none of us. sudden any knowledge of. Right. And it was a shakedown. We need you to cough up some money or we're

going to shut you down. That that was like, it was crazy. But there was, there, there, thank God, the guy was just a patent troll and was looking for a quick payout because, and thank God for, the IFF. They, they took on the case pro bono and were able to, to sort of kill the troll. But if he decided he wanted to go a more legit route and have his, and license the technology, everybody would be paying up. Yeah. everyone who fucking did anything on these mics. Well, luckily, he, I mean, his mistake was he didn't wait 10 more years. Could you imagine if he would have sat on that thing and then done it?

But like, we were in a panic about it. Yes. And, you know, Belknap, I was like, when he was starting that new thing, I was like, can you guarantee us protection? And, you know, he was in the sites too. But I don't think that people really know that story. And that was what made me feel like we were talking about earlier, that at the beginning of the comedy,

podcast more so than incestuous and the fact that we were doing each other's shows, it really felt like a community. 100%. I agree with that. And we were all, certainly in that, we were all in that together. Totally. And we had to be. We had it of each other's backs.

That's right. And it was like kind of an amazing time. Yeah. You know, because I remember like when that Patenthal thing came down, we all ended up over at Carolla's compound. Right. To have a sit down. Yeah.

Like the five families. Yeah. You know, it was like me and Jay. and, you know, someone from nerdist and, you know, Carolla, Kevin Smith's people were there, like, what are we going to do about this? And we had to hire, we thought about hiring a guy because the lawsuit would have cost a fortune to defend it to break the patent. And I think Carolla just paid up.

And the thing that was so shallow about it is this patent troll who had decided that this technological patent that he owned applied to podcasts, just saw a list of the top five podcast at that time and assumed they're making millions of dollars. None of us were making any fucking money, except for Carolla. Yeah. And I don't know what the other ones did, but to me, it was a heroic kind of coming together of the community. And I don't know at what point, because I remember there were times where, you know, we'd be like, oh, fuck, you know, nerdist got that guest first and there was a competition there. Like, it was really an exciting time. And we were at the cusp of new media. And now, like, who gives a fuck?

Well, that is certainly out there. What do you mean? Who gives a fuck? No, I know. I'm just saying because everyone has one. There's no, there was once it becomes a business, once becomes networks, once people are selling their networks, you know, once it goes, you know, video that, you know, it's sort of just part of show business now.

But at that time, it was the fucking Wild West. I was doing advertising for sex toys and coffee. Yeah. And audible. And that was all you could get. And you were grateful to get it. Sure. and the occasional, like, you know, old school terrestrial ads, like, you know, sherry's berries and 1,800 flowers, you know, and now it's square space and simply safe, fine.

But it did feel like, I remember there was a time where I'm like, I don't want to do ads because that would ruin the integrity of the show. Okay. And how long did that last? Well, we didn't need to make money. But our, our, what we chose to do in relation to you, because the conversation was, you know, if you do create a pay, well, like you said, you're cutting off new audience. is that we created a pay site for the live shows. That's why we did live shows. Is people would buy those.

And then we had a donation sort of a thing going. Right. Where, you know, you'd give different tiers of donations for a monthly thing. You know, $5, $10, if someone gave a big chunk of money, they'd get T-shirts and whatever. And my whole house was filled with boxes of T-shirts. Right. But that's how we made our nut at the beginning, enough to get by. And then, like, look at us now.

Just fucking corporate horrors, a lot of us. Well, you're not a part of a network. No, never was. Nor am I. We were with Irwil for five years. And otherwise, we were never part of a network. Yeah. And we didn't want to be.

And again, if we're good or bad, one could argue for the bad. You know, that we, maybe we should have been part of something. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And gotten that corporate push. But I don't think podcasting is never supposed to be a corporate thing. And so once you're starting to get notes and stuff like you're doing a TV show for NBC, that that's not podcasting to me. Yeah. Or else you're dropping in pre-record ads.

Oh, man, I think we do do that. You do? I think we do the, yeah, I think there's pre-recorded sometimes. Yeah, I never do that. We do the host read and then, yeah, there's, yeah, there's pre-recorded. And we're pretty picky about our ads. We're not complete corporate stooges. You know, we definitely, and I don't think that's the right word.

You know, you got to do advertising to make your money. Yeah, but you know what? But we're pretty picky about it. We only do live reads. We're picky in the sense that we won't do anything that we won't actually use. Yeah. You know, I don't want to be selling something where it's clear, like, you know, I don't drink, so it would be very disingenuous would be to talk about, you know, Budweiser.

So we don't do it. I remember there was a point there where man grate. You remember man grate? Sure. You cook your steak on your engine. They kept pushing at us, you know, because Corolla was, you know, selling a lot of mangrates. And they kept pushing at us. We got to do it.

And we're like, it's not our audience. And they're like, yeah, you got to do it. And we did it. And they sold nothing. Yeah, because it's not your audience. That's right. And they were like, we made a mistake. And, you know, can you?

and we just said, don't worry about it. You know, fuck off. Yeah. I don't think I ever sold Squatty Potties. You? Did we do the Squatty Potties? Is that the little thing where you put your feet up on? Yeah, yeah.

No, no. We never got the Squatty Pied Pats. I was kind of upset that we didn't get Squatty Pottie. I mean, I got a Squatty Pottie. Yeah, I mean, I got a Squatty Pottie. Yeah, out of pocket for the Squatty. I did get a free one from what was the Tushie. Uh-huh.

Remember Tushy, the adapter for the Biday that you put, you make your toilet into a bidet? I don't know about Tushy. It was Tushy.com. Yeah. Make your toilet. Just put this thing in there and then you've got a bidet. Then they had their own. Squatty potty version.

You had a knockoff. You had a Tushy, not a squatty potty. I had that, but the problem was our toilet was already low to the ground. Yeah. So it was. Your knees are up around your ears. My knees were a little too high. A little too high.

And I remember, like, you know, getting those, you know, the sample boxes of Sherry's berries and just wondering, like, are these good? I mean, they look nice. I don't like berries. I know. You still do them? Sherry's berries? Listen, use promo code Pardo, get 20% off. No, we do not do cherry berries.

No, there's some, there are some over the years where it's like, okay, it's good, but is it as great as I'm saying? I was grateful they stopped advertising. Sure, sure, yeah, 1,800 flowers. That worked out okay until you start getting complaints to the show about flowers that show up dead or whatever. Is that true? Yeah. It's not my fault. Yeah, go to the flowers guys.

I'm also a fan of that when people complain. about, hey, there's something going on with your, uh, uh, we're trying to buy tickets for your show at the club. Yeah. I don't know. I'm the idiot that shows up and talks.

Yeah. That's literally, that's where it starts an end. Every once in a while, if they hit me on a, on a particularly vulnerable day, I'm like, I'll see what I can do. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, you know, we've been trying to see you for three years. Like, I, I, let me see what I can do. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, you got to be careful with that. Are you, has the bitterness gone away? Towards you? No, no, towards,

where podcasting has happened. you know what, not, I'm gonna circle back. Not unlike accepting, hey dude, you're a classic rock guy. Just be who you are. Quit trying to like the newer bands. They're not for you. It's the same with letting go with the bitterness with podcasting of you have your audience. Right.

You're doing great. Right. Could it be bigger? Of course it could be bigger. Am I a little jealous that smart list can do the Hollywood Bowl? Of course. Yeah. But I also am not competing with them.

Yeah. They're not, I'm not in the same circles as Sean Hayes. So I don't have that bitterness. I just, I like to think that I'm interesting and funny, and I would like more people to hear it. Yeah. That's all. I feel the exact same way. Yeah.

But then it comes to why aren't more people? Yeah. Yeah. And I guess that's why, and I mean this sincerely, you know, Mark, I guess that's why I get a little emotional when I'm so grateful when people like you do spread the part of word around. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, you know what, my peers and people that I respect and that I personally find funny that would sit down. and watch are out there saying you gotta see Pardo. That means a world to me.

Yeah. And then maybe five people will hear that and say, I'm going to check this guy out. And maybe those five will say, you know, that's super shampoo commercial. Yeah. Isn't that funny, though, when you get an email that says, like, I just started listening. I'm like, what? Where are you been? What, really?

We're getting that now as we're closing the show. Oh, no. Just got on board. Because you realize that, too, in the big picture of the media landscape that, you know, despite however long you've been doing it or even I've been doing it, or even I've been doing it, most people don't know who we are. It's just a fucking reality. Most people don't know where you.

And I guess that's always been the case. You know, like if you were on a TV show when there were three networks, everybody in the fucking world, everybody knew you were. Everybody knew who Tim Allen was. Yeah, yeah. It was in a person in the world that did not know who Tim Allen was. But now it's like you're kind of like, you know,

you get your little bubble and you get your little audience and you kind of go through life like that. But the bigger realization is like, I'm just not getting through to most people. Yeah. And there's nothing I can do about that. But you also have billboard. around town. You're doing... For the specials.

You're doing great. No, I know. I appreciate that. There's also the you and Owen Wilson are up on billboards. That's right. You're doing all right. So you're saying maybe be grateful you fuck. Am I using those words?

No, I'm just projecting. Yeah. I mean, you nailed it. But I wouldn't have said it. Look, I know I've done fine, but it's just so weird. Because, you know, even the way you feel, and I do get plenty of credit for for doing what I did. But, you know, there is part of you that, and I don't know where it comes from, where it's sort of like, where's my big award?

Where's my statue? Well, the first time they gave out a podcast award, it went to Conan O'Brien. Okay, see, now, now why did you, you know, where does that come from that you said that? Because it's by the time they finally started acknowledging podcasts. Conan was the number one podcast, so of course he got the trophy. And Conan's great. Which trophy? I don't know.

It was the Billboard Music Awards or whatever, right? Wasn't that it? I don't know who was. I don't know what it was. The American Music Awards, whatever it was, he got the podcast. And there's no bitterness there. Again, Conan O'Brien changed my life

when he hired me to work for it on his program. Yeah. So thank God he's, you know, he's one of the funniest people. Well, I could probably find a little bitters. And you about it? Sure. I don't know that we need to poke around at it. I'm finding that as I'm coming to a close with the podcast

that my desire to spout off is returning. I will say, But in regards to that, and again, I don't know how this has turned into a suck-ass session, but your ability to spout out has kind of freed me in a way as well, where it's like, you know, I'm 59, and this is who I am, and I've got my audience. Yeah. And I'm going to say it. Yeah, go fuck yourself.

Right? Yeah. And if NBC doesn't want to hire me, they're not hire me anyway. What is NBC anymore? Do you ever go back to Chicago? Sure. You got family? Yeah, my dad's there.

Oh, really? Yeah, my dad's still, my brother's there and my dad. How old's your dad? 82. Wow. Isn't it amazing? I'm going to be 62 and my dad's still alive? Is your dad got all those marbles?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. He golfs three times a week. Golfs. And yeah, I mean, he's not, I will say this. When I call my dad on the telephone, in my head, I'm picturing the 50-year-old man I used to call. Sure. And so when he says something where it's like, well, how do you not know that?

because you used to know stuff like that. And so that's, I'm kind of coming to terms with that a little bit. Yeah. But for the most part, he's still pretty with it. Well, that's great. He can't find a podcast. Sure. But otherwise, he's still pretty with it.

My dad's wife, my dad's wife, they play the podcast. She plays the podcast. They listen to the podcast. It's like his way of keeping up with me. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he's back, is he in New Mexico or back east? Yeah, he's still in New Mexico.

And, you know, but he's still, he knows me and everything. But she keeps it, she keeps it fresh. Wow, that's actually a smart move. By playing the podcast for him. So he gets to hear how you're angry as Chappelle. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It doesn't know who you're talking about, but he hears it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Now, a lot of people don't know this. You're from New Mexico, that your father was the inspiration for Walter White on Breaking Bad. Totally. Okay. Because, again, that hasn't been out there as much as it should be. No, he's not that interesting. But, yeah, I'm from New Mexico. Jersey Roots.

Jersey Roots. All right. All right, well, I think we did it, dude. All right. Don't you have your famous catchphrase? We're good? We good? Yeah. Well, I thought we were good going in. And despite the fact of, you know, thinking that this was a blowing smoke up, my ass session, I had you here because I appreciate you and what you've done and the inspiration. And I do feel we are kindred spirits at the beginning of something that got away from us. Yeah, I agree with that. I agree. And, yeah, I appreciate your friendship, your show, everything. So thank you for having me. Thanks for talking.

Jimmy Pardo, always fun. Again, his show, Never Not Funny, is available on all podcasting platforms. Hang out for a minute, folks. Hey, if you have a subscription to Supercast and the full WTF archives, you can go check out our two-part episode with Judd Apatow from 2010, episodes 103 and 104. I was very lucky that part of my dysfunction as a person is a terror of bankruptcy, financial bankruptcy,

not emotional bankruptcy. True. A spiritual bankruptcy. So as a young person, I thought 10 years ahead. So I had a show like this in high school where I interviewed comedians like Leno and Seinfeld and John Candy. How did you manage to get hold of them? I used to call other publicists

and say I was from a radio station in New York, and all the publicists were too lazy to look it up and figure out that it was a high school radio station. But I was afraid that I was going to not be able to take care of myself in my life. So in my head, I always thought, well, what do I need to do? Okay, I'll interview these comedians, and they'll tell me how to be a comedian. They'll tell me how to write. They'll tell me what it's like.

And to be 16 years old and sit down with Jerry Seinfeld, and for half an hour, he literally tells you how he writes a joke, how he first got on stage, how long it took. him to get good. It just changed everything for me because I thought, okay, it takes seven years to find your character. When did this all start being funny as a kid? Yeah, I guess so, although it was not like a real, I wasn't a class clown per se. I mean, I wrote some funny things for the newspaper and I were always trying to be funny around my friends. And watching comedy was the thing I enjoyed more than anything else. I was obsessed with, I knew every comedian,

and I knew all their routines, you know, and I loved it so much. That's how I got into it. I wanted to be around it, you know, and I never thought I'd be any good at it. But that turned out to be an advantage because it made me work harder than most other people work at it. Sign up for a supercast subscription by going to WTFPod.com and clicking on WTF Plus so you can hear those episodes with Judd. And then Judd will be back on Monday with a special episode that was his idea, and it's a good one. And a reminder before we go, this podcast is hosted by ACAST.

Here's some sludge from a P90. It's monkey and lafondi cat angels everywhere.