WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1685 - Marc Maron

Episode Date: October 9, 2025

Only one episode of WTF remains after this one and it will not be recorded in the garage. So with this being the final WTF episode taking place in Marc’s sacred space, it’s only appropriate that he close things out himself, directly addressing everyone who’s been on this ride with him for the past sixteen years. This show started with Marc on a microphone, first in a radio studio, then at the Cat Ranch in Highland Park, as well as many remote locations all over the world, before winding up in this garage where Marc turns that microphone on one last time.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Lock the gate! All right, let's do this. How are you? What the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fuck Knicks? What's happening? I am Mark Merrin, and this is my podcast, WTF.

Welcome to it for almost the last time. This will be the penultimate. Is that how you say it? Penultimate episode of this show. We have one more show to do. That will be on Monday that will not be recorded here in the garage. And this one, I just wanted it to be us. I wanted it to be in the garage with just me and all of you.

Me and you. We've had a relationship for a long time, a long time, 16 years. that's the longest relationship I've ever had with you. And if it hasn't been that long for some of you, you'll get the feeling. Get up to speed. Go spend 16 years with me. You can do it online.

But in some levels, I understand that this is like a breakup, I guess. I don't feel it in that way. I know that some of you are sad. I'm sad. It's a big change for me, but sometimes you have to move on. And I know you don't have a saying in this, and I apologize. But that's sometimes how these breakups go. But the truth is, is that we've certainly all come a long way together.

I got an email today or someone reached out on me. she'd been listening to me for 16 years and she started when she was five because her parents used to make her listen to me in the car and she hated me because I was just this annoying kind of a grumpy grown-up and somehow or another now that she's in her 20s she's she's come around to understanding the grumpiness but that's that's crazy that people have grown up with me, that people have, you know, started with me in their teens and their 20s, even in their 30s and they're now in their 40s now, and their entire lives have changed. And I've been there.

I've been talking to you. I appreciate the gravity of that. People are coming up to me a lot right now and saying, I'm going to miss you. I don't know what I'm going to do without the show. You were always with me. I get people emailing that they've taken me all over the world. world with them. And I, again, I appreciate the weight of that. And I'm grateful to have, have been part of your lives. I really am. You know, I have to make sure that I say that because

I don't always think that way. I don't, I'm just sitting here in this garage by myself. And I'm surrounded with kind of homemade sound panels that a kid made for me. I've got some Chochie's bullshit on the desk here. And I walk out here from my house and I do this. And I don't, I'm just talking out. I'm talking out. I don't know where it all lands. But over the years and certainly in the last few months, it's been very moving for me to hear how much of what I do and what we did hear, the conversations, the stories, my life has had an impact. It's profound. and humbling because I rarely think about that. I mean, it's been a long time since I thought about, like, how many people are listening

or it's been a long time since I've listened to a whole podcast. So my experience with this is I'm just sitting out here. I'm just sitting out here in the garage talking, but I know I'm talking to you. And I do that as full-heartedly as I possibly can. And I guess that comes through. I want to reflect a little bit, I think, because I've been thinking about me in relation to this show and in relation to my life and how it kind of began. But also before that, before that, and some words come up to me. You know, look, I've been called self-centered.

I've been called narcissistic. I've been called, you know, a navel gazer. You know, these are the bad things. And in reflection about who I am and what my creativity. is, I came upon a few words. A lot of times when I talk about starting this podcast, there's a sense that it was desperation. And that word has connotations that are negative, that, you know, that guy's desperate. And I think if you remove the judgment tone from desperation and you apply it to your life, the definition of desperation is a state of despair, typically one which results in a rash or extreme behavior.

Yeah, I'll take it. I'll take it. At the beginning of this show, I was in a very bad place. My career was in the toilet, and there was really nowhere to go from where I was. I'd been through a lot of shit. I'd been through two divorces, one that was dramatically and traumatic. heartbreaking and costly. I didn't have a way forward really with comedy that made sense. I'd already been at it a long time. I was in my 40s. And rash or extreme behavior, the extreme

behavior, see, even that definition has the connotation of something that could be negative. But the rash or extreme behavior that I took part in in my desperation at the time, was to do something totally different. Look, I knew I could be on these mics, but the extreme behavior was like, we're going to do this thing because we have access to this technology to put it out there,

and we don't know where it goes from there. There's no money involved. There's no guarantee of anything, listeners, anything. No one even knows what these podcasts are, but I needed to put myself out there. And the extreme behavior was taking that chance. The rash behavior was really just believing in it. So I think that framing desperation in that way, it becomes proactive.

The other word I was thinking about was urgency. I live in an urgent state. I think that when you're self-employed and you do a lot of things, you're always chasing something. And if you're not organized, you have to do something right when it comes into your head. you might not do it. But the definition of urgency is importance requiring swift action and also an earnest and persistent quality, insistence. I am at the core an urgent person. Everything happens urgently. When I talk, all of what I put out into the world requires me talking, and it's always urgent. It's very rarely passive. So when you mix the sort of desperate extreme action with urgency,

that is a large component of why I connect, I think. And it doesn't go away. The urgency is annoying because some things can wait. But I'm not great at the waiting. And the great thing about doing this podcast and talking to you is that in my urgency, no matter where I am in my heart and mind, I have to put it out there for myself and then for you. It becomes that. The other word that I thought of was connection, connection, a relationship in which a person thing or ideas is linked or associated with something else. I live for connection.

I live for it because I need it to know that I exist. Need. That's the other word. Need, require something because it is essential. and very important. I have no ability to compartmentalize. It's always, you know, drenched in need, the need for connection with urgency

coming out of at the beginning desperation. And that's, this is how I live my life. And this is, it's all very immediate. And it's all very important to me. Neediness. That implies that's a negative. But everyone has need. So when you take like neediness, desperation, urgency, it all seems negative, but it is not.

It is the only way that I can live in the world. And it's the way that my brain and my heart works. And it just happens to sort of fit, you know, what I do, which is talk in the moment, unscripted, like now, both in comedy and this podcast, which are. my, that's what I do. I'm a stand-up comedian by trade. I'm a podcaster by trade, but also this is my creativity. And then the other word I looked up was selfish of a person, action, or motive, lacking consideration for others concerned chiefly with one's own personal profit or pleasure. Well, fortunately, it was never about profit, and I don't know what, and I don't know what pleasure is.

For me, relief is good enough. And I don't lack consideration for others. I think I did because I was self-involved, but it's not, I'm not a sociopath. I have a conscience. It's just sometimes I'm a little late connecting it. You know, after the damage is done, I realize, like, oh, I didn't take into consideration. But over the course of this show, you have heard me learn how to be consider of others, how to be empathetic for others, how to listen to others, how to surrender a lot of my selfishness,

and that's become ingrained in me, and that was the process of this. And I imagine that some of you took some of that away from this. I knew that I wanted to be a creative person. I was and am a creative person. And when I was younger, I remember I was in 10th grade, I was in an English class, and we were studying poetry, and the teacher asked us to write a poem. And I wrote this very weird, heartfelt, sad poem about, you know, not knowing how to talk to girls, not being a jock, not, you know, having any experience with, um, relationship. It was just a very, it was too much. And I remember reading it and the class was just mortified. And the teacher was like, oh, well, okay, Mark, thank you. Uh, that was very, that was very interesting. He's being,

I just put too much. of my heart out there and it alienated me more. But I spoke in honesty in that moment and the feeling of doing that was horrendous. So I continued to do it my entire life. And when I got into college, look, I tried to pursue poetry. I did photography. I did acting. I was always trying to put myself out there in an attempt to become sort of a whole person. So if I thought if I could be seen and I could show myself that somehow or another I would come together. And that's why I chose comedy for some reason. It was because I could put myself out there.

I mean, the requirement was to be funny, and I've gone through a lot of stages of doing that. But you could do whatever you wanted up there, and I really believed I would find myself through that. So comedy brought me here. The mics brought me here. being on a mic is how I live my life and how I've always lived my adult life all the searching which was never spiritual per se I was fortunate in that that I was not a spiritual searcher looking for the great answers to why we live or to whether there's a god or not or to how to be spiritually sound and connected you know I was in search of myself and I figured if I could get that you know undertaking completed maybe I'd seek the bigger answers. This is all in retrospect. This is me reflecting.

But after years of talking on mics as a comic, I began to do, I had an opportunity to do some radio. And I realized like with these kind of mics, I can talk like I'm talking now. I can talk in a way that didn't require me to be funny, that I could actually explore every aspect and emotion and creative impulse that I have through talking without being expected to be funny,

expected to be anything, but myself. And that was the big breakthrough, is to be able to sit here. Again, I'm alone, and I'm always alone in this room on the mic, unless I have a guest with me. you're hearing me find myself in the world in front of you. And I don't think that's selfish. And I think that's what we're all trying to do with some success or failure or doubt or pain. But that's what I do. That's what I do.

That was the big breakthrough that once I hit bottom, not with drugs and alcohol. That was before the podcast. But once I hit bottom with life and with career, that I found this mic and I found this medium. And I found the connection. And I found a place where I could fully express my thoughts and feelings. And that was a big deal. And it remains a big deal to this conversation I'm having with you right now. But it was always about these rooms.

It was always about this studio. It was always about, you know, in the beginning, it was about the old garage. The old garage was a magical place, a truly magical place that I was ready to let go when I let it go. But that place, when I first got into that space, and it was actually a functioning garage just filled with crap, broken furniture and this and that, lamps. I just stuck a table in it. I put a floor down. I stuck a table in it, and I had my MacBook, and I had these big mics. and I sat there and did this with people coming in.

And as it began to sort of take shape and become a thing, you know, I moved all of my stuff from storage, all of my books, all of my chotchkes, all of my life, in pictures, photographs, pieces of art, little knickknacks. And I made it an environment that was not just cozy, but it was literally a representation of my entire life through bits and pieces of things that were important to me. Clutter, but informed clutter.

It was like you were walking into my being because I was surrounded with all of it in that room. And it was a magical place. And at the beginning, when people would come to the house, they'd have to walk through my little, you know, 8, 900 square foot house with one bathroom, this old 1923 Spanish bungalow house with a beat-up garage outback.

And they'd have to walk through my entire, being before they even got on the mic and all the sort of working through things with people and trying to get connected initially with my community of comics who I thought I had alienated. I thought I, but I always felt this way. It turns out over time that you start to learn that, you know, only you feel that way. It was like that moment in high school where I spoke up and I did something that I thought was, you know, important and beautiful and honest. and I felt nothing but ostracized.

I've always felt that way, and I guess that is sort of an inverted grandiosity. Like, you know, in the rooms, they call it the piece of shit at the center of the universe. But it just wasn't really the case. And over time, I realized, like, you know, I'm not that important. I'm not that special.

I don't have that much of an impact. And all these things that I was assuming were in my head. But nonetheless, over the course of those first few hundred episodes, I started to over. open up and started to learn how to, you know, have these conversations and also speak to you directly at the beginning, which was very important. And this was never a for-profit endeavor. I was adverse to even having ads on it. I thought, you know, that would ruin it, man. We got something pure here. It wasn't even a punk rock sensibility. I just thought it would ruin the

integrity of the thing. So, you know, we set up a donation site. And I was in my house with, I had a roommate at that time, Stosh. And she was helping me pack envelopes. you know, to send swag out to people that gave a little money. It was like it was all hands on deck. It was urgent. It's always urgent. This was urgent when I got up to do this. But it was always just about me on this mic and it still is.

You know, I walk away from this. I walk away from a guest interview and, and it's in the past. And I don't even think I always realized the impact of it or how it's going out there. I long ago stopped, you know, wondering about how many people are. listening and all that. And I was just showing up to do this work, you know, with a certain sense of urgency. It just was life or death. urgency and the need for connection so I could exist in the world. But it was always about these mics. That old studio was, you know, a magical place. And, you know, people would come to look at it. They would drive by my house. They wanted to know

what it was, the garage, the cat ranch. The cats all played an important part. My divorces played an important part. You know, my friends who would make me laugh played an important part. But really, when it comes down to it, it was you guys who were really the most important because something I was doing was speaking to you. And the sort of gratitude and input I've had from the audience is been something I could never have imagined that, you know, my struggle, which is, again, the urgency of my life and how I react to it and then talk about it and live in it and share it with you was somehow a consciousness that many of you connected with.

And I will, it changed my life. And look, a lot of things have changed for me. A lot of you know that. when I moved to this house, again, the urgency. I've done this show. I did it in the magic room in the old house at the cat ranch, you know, out there off of that beat-up patio deck. I've done it in hotel rooms around the world.

I've done it in airport lounges. I've done it in cars. I've done it, you know, outside. because my work ethic, my creative ethic, and just the way I live my life is urgent. And I do feel like I could use a break from that because I was just realizing the other night when I was driving down to the store over Laurel Canyon,

a drive I've made all of my adult life on and off to the comedy store that I was sitting in my body. my body was in my car. I don't know if that really is as profound to you as it is for me, but I was in that moment because I've been wondering, you know, what's why I's going to be like without this podcast? And we've been slowing down and saying this goodbye for a long time now, months.

But I was really in a present that I don't know, that I've experienced before, where I wasn't up in my head. I wasn't really panicking about anything. Oh, boy. I guess that's the other word. I left out a very important word. Hold on. I'd like to get the definition of that.

I left out the most important word to go with the other words. Panic. Sudden, uncontrollable fear or anxiety. often causing wildly unthinking behavior or wildly overthinking behavior in my case. It's not my panic is definitely not unthinking. It may be untrue, but it's not unthinking. Yeah, throw that into the mix. Panic, need, connection, urgency, desperation, selfish.

These are the words that I guess I'm trying to share with you. Because all of them seem negative, but out of that combination, I became a more full, compassionate, empathetic, wiser, funnier, humble person. But I couldn't have done it without that path through those words and what they mean and sharing them with you. So I'm driving in my car, and I realize like, dude, you are fully in your life right now. You just turned 62 years old, and you're fully in your life right now. And I don't know if I've ever felt that. It's taken me this long to get here. And I know that not everybody's like me.

And I don't need to talk about why I'm like I am. You know, I've done that exploration. this being in the world in the form and with the sense of self I have now is a new experience because I've done everything to not avoid it but to just keep moving. And I'm realizing now as we slow the show down that I have not really sat with myself and just sat with the frequency of what is in my immediate environment in my immediate life with a sense of accomplishment, with a sense of peace, with a sense of appreciation for what I've done and for other people. And it's overwhelming, but it's new to me. But I just remember

when I got this place and, you know, I was going to, I was thrilled about the studio, having a studio here, but then the sound wasn't right. And I was trying to record the first day I was here and they were jack hammering around the corner and I just freaked out because it was bleeding into the into the room. My old garage was so insulated with which would shit from my life that it was a perfect sound. And I just remember like I still had my headphones around my neck and I ran around the corner to where they were doing the construction. I was in the middle of the street looking at these guys working construction going, how long are you going to be doing this? I have to record the urgency. And I don't even know with my urgency, you know, how insane I have. looked in my life to other people.

Like, what is, what is the problem? I, this is very important. Everything is very important. And they, they stopped. It was like when Arnold Schwarzenegger came over here and they were doing yard work. And I was like, you guys, Arnold Schwarzenegger is going to be here. This is, this is important. Everything is fucking life or death.

And that is some anxiety part. Oh, anxiety. Well, that's the other word. I think I kind of, it all adds up to that, doesn't it? But look, you guys, oh, come on, I'm going to miss you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, oh yeah, this is. Anxiety is a normal human emotion involving feelings of apprehension, fear, or unease about potential future misfortune. Yeah, that's, yeah, that's, yeah, exactly.

welcome to me fuck boy now now I'm just doing a hypochondriac thing excessive warrior rumination physical symptoms oh rapid heartbeat sweating shortness of breath

muscle tension avoidance avoiding situations of activities that trigger anxiety everything difficulty sweeping that went away irritability yeah there's the other word anxiety

what are the words we have here desperation, urgency, connection, need, selfish, anxiety. Through that path, my friends, I've become a more full person right in front of your very eyes. But it was always about the mic. It was always about the talking. It was always about the urgency of talking. It was always about working it out out loud in front of you. And we've been through a lot of stuff together, a lot of breakups, death, cats, the world.

yeah, we've been through a lot of shit together. And I'm going to miss you. I'm going to miss this. And this is not, this was not a decision made, you know, quickly and was not taken lightly. And I do want to say that I am somewhat excited. I am somewhat relieved. But a lot of people are like, well, you know, you're not going to stop, whatever. You're going to go on to do this.

and yeah, yeah, but the work, this work was my life. This work was important. Every one of these conversations was important to me. And I always have an elevated sense of self-importance, you know, just because that's the way I live my life. Like, wow, I really, we really did something here. And I think about that with jokes and with everything. And like, when I look outside to people, I'm like, I don't know what I'm, what I want them to be. I guess I want them to be my mother and I'm like, you know, four years old.

And I just want people to go, that was really great. That really made a difference. That was really special. That was important, that joke. But now I can do that for myself. This was important. This was special. This was relevant.

This was life-changing for me and for some of you. It was important. It is important. And the relief that I feel is really that I've been working nonstop trying to put myself out there and be creative in the ways I've chosen for all of my adult life. And somehow or another, I earned a living. I saved some money. But I think I missed a lot of life while I was in it because I look back on it and I think, God damn it. How'd I do that?

How'd I get through that? Who was that guy who did that? Being who I am and what I do, I'm very present. But once I walk out of that present, you know, it quickly becomes the past. And I don't really afford myself any sort of appreciation or gratitude or feeling of accomplishment naturally. But I have it now most of the time. And I want to live in that for a little while. and then I want to see what I am and who I am now

in terms of like just living life. I just want to focus on, you know, slowing it down a little bit and then being in myself and being in my life and having that be enough. Is that okay? Is that okay, you guys? I hope it all made sense. But this thing, this thing was, you know,

It didn't go by fast, but when I look at it and I see how much we've done, it's crazy. We've done a lot of stuff, and we did it to the best of our abilities, Brendan and I, and all the guests. I got to be grateful for them, all the people that I had these conversations with, who I consider my friends, even if they don't really remember me or know, just how important and how urgent it was that we talked. Thank you to all of them. Amazing people. And I just, I want to reflect on all of it. It just all was all in the moment.

It was all so, again, urgent to the point where I didn't miss it, but I didn't appreciate it enough when I did it. Maybe I did in the moment, but I'm just overwhelmed. with the accomplishment of it all. I'm just so happy you guys were with me, you people, to experience this all with me. I am feeling grateful. I am feeling sad.

It is a sense of loss, but it's not a bad one. It's just life. I mean, fuck. Really. Really. a lot of your input changed my mind, changed the way I looked at things. I really took to heart a lot of what many of you said to me in person, sometimes through emails. And I really feel like you were a big part of my evolution or my evolving wisdom and perception.

You really helped me. Yeah. I don't know, man. I love you guys and I think you'll be okay without me I'm not entirely sure I'll be okay without you but it has been quite a ride quite an adventure

quite a life and boomer lives monkey Lafonda cat angels everywhere I really had no expectations out of this show I think Brendan and I got into doing it thinking we might get, you know, maybe a few hundred people. I had no idea that it would take

off the way it did. And deeper than that, I had no idea that it would connect to people in the way that it does. You're connecting with me on some other level than I ever imagine possible. It's not really about comedy. It seems to be about sharing what is inside of my head or having the freedom to do that. What I've grown to realize as I do this show is that many of us spend our lives just trying to get by, just trying to, you know, get through life. I never cry when I just, you know what, it is a beautiful story, and sometimes I forget that. Yeah, we now have crying. Something happened in here, I can't explain it.

I don't know why it happens or why it happened, and all of a sudden it's popular. There's a pride in that you can't imagine. There's a pride in it that's bigger than, you know, getting a joke over or doing a good show. And I'm super proud of you, and I can honestly tell you, Mark, that when I hear your interviews, I'm in awe. I think it's totally amazing. All right. And I'll in all, what can I tell you? That's the truth.

Well, that makes me happy to hear. It's really what it's all about. To make people feel less alone in the most horrible places in their minds, in their lives, in their situations, of all kinds. How would you describe yourself using only three words? I don't know. How about I'm almost there? I'm very grateful that it's working out, and I love doing it. But I do have a guy within me that says, I got...

the other food's going to drop dude You're going to fuck up Yeah But something is going to happen Thanks Norm That's the bad part All right Let's weave it there

Okay Love you buddy Love you too man Ultimately This is your show I'm talking to you And I couldn't do it without you I really couldn't

So thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you for listening Okay wipe your eyes. That was it for today

from the garage, but we have one more episode coming up on Monday. Our truly last episode and I think you'll enjoy it. All right then. Talk to you later.