WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 505 - Billy Wayne Davis

Episode Date: June 11, 2014

Comedian Billy Wayne Davis is in the garage to enlighten Marc on how the culture of the South closely alligns with the culture of standup comics. And there's still plenty of time to talk about things like sports, fighting, arrests, bipolarity, drinking, snapping, Megan Fox and Mitch Hedberg. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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What the fuck nicks? What the fucksters? What the fuckstables? What the fuckleberry fins? Welcome. This is WTF. I am Mark Maron. So it's hot and sweaty in my garage. I've had a very aggravating day.

I don't want to start with complaining. I'm not complaining. It's just some shit went down today, but I'll get to that perhaps. I do want to say today on the show, Mr. Billy Wayne Davis, young comic out of the southern region of the United States. Talk to him in a bit. I just want to also update you on what's going on in my calendar. There seems to be some misunderstanding about some things. some misunderstanding about some things this saturday will be at the first annual 26th annual comedy fest in chicago that is almost sold out from what i understand but you can go to wtfpod.com to get tickets for any of these on tuesday june 24th lawrence arts center that's for some sort of film festival i'll be doing june 25th the firebird in st louis sold out sorry uh there might be tickets available for walk-up june 26th through the 28th i'll be at the comedy attic in bloomington now i want to make it clear i i've told some of you my dates

coming up in austin and dallas and houston and tampa charlotte uh atlanta georgia uh though i will be at the comedy zone in charlotte august 14th through august 16th doing an hour stand up a lot of those dates are at amphitheaters and some people are like wow you must be doing alright other people are like an amphitheater in the middle of fucking August in Tampa are you out of your mind I understand these sentiments but what I want to tell you

is that many of you who know me and know what I do are fans already and I appreciate that but I'm doing the oddball fest the lineup looks good it's going to be Aziz and Atel and Louie from what I understand Sarah the oddball fest the lineup looks good it's going to be Aziz and Atal and Louie from what I understand Sarah Silverman it's gonna be great it's gonna be like a reunion for some of us there's some other comics on obviously so I'm doing some of those dates it's not just me at the mid-Florida credit union amphitheater but whatever

I'm on the oddball fest go to wtfpod.com go to the calendar i and see the dates okay all right so that's out of the way i appreciate the vote of confidence when you're like you can't fill an amphitheater i know i can't i can with louis i can with sarah and dave and aziz yeah then i can i'm doing short sets so the point being that some who know me, you're not going to get the full Marin effect necessarily. You'll get 15 minutes from me, but then, you know, if people dig me,

I'll come back to your area and do my own show. That's my thinking on it. You guys, Bob mold fans. He's I'm going to have him on the show in a few weeks, but I just wanted to hip you to the fact that his new album beauty and ruin is out now. And he'll be going on tour this fall. You can check out all his stuff at bob mold.com uh that was a good conversation

oh by the way can i just mention clearly that bobcat goldthwait's new movie the movie is called willow creek it's a bigfoot movie and it's getting amazing reviews go so go track that down where you can i know it's playing in some theaters i know it's getting amazing reviews. So go track that down where you can. I know it's playing in some theaters. I know it's available to DVR in some places. But Bob, you know, he had directed a few episodes of Marin. And I want to help him out. I want to help him out with his new movie, Willow Creek, the Bigfoot movie. The Bigfoot movie.

Why can't I fucking talk? God damn it. All right. It's been a long day but go see bob's movie if you want i recommend it this thursday i'm marin on ifc it's a good show but apparently some of you saw it because a canadian network screwed up and ran it out of sequence but most of you haven't it's based on me and caroline ray play me and caroline ray and we used to have sex occasionally and now we're at the ages we're at 50 or so late 40s whatever you want to frame it as and we thought well let's give it another try

dave anthony gets involved there's a cat involved not in the sex but yeah so it's a pretty fun episode and the backstory about this is that I did date McCaroline Ray, or we did hang out a few times. But also Dave Anthony did as well. And that is the triangle that is being played fictionally on Marin tonight. Did I say this Thursday before? Tonight. So that's the backstory.

There's a real backdrop to this. I just want you to know, and I don't think Caroline would mind, but the backstory is at different points back when we were in our 20s, both Dave and I, I'll be polite, dated Caroline Ray. And in this episode of Marin Tonight, some of that happens again. Well, at least I date her. I don't want to tell you what happens. So enjoy that.

So getting back to Def Black Cat, who I was beginning to grieve his loss. I told you on the last on show Monday, haven't seen him, getting a little worried. It's been over a week. The day after I said that to you, the day after, Black Cat, Deaf Black Cat's hanging out on the rail on my deck, just laying there, looking at me. I look out my bedroom window. There's Deaf Black Cat.

I'm like, what's up? Nice to see you. And he was like, nice to see you too. And then apparently he said, I'm not really eating here anymore, and I'm no longer into hanging out on your deck. But I wanted to check in because I knew you were panicking. Don't panic. I'm just hanging out at a better place where the food's better and it's less aggravating.

You clearly have a frenetic energy that makes me uncomfortable. I have enough on my plate. I'm death. So I'm like, okay, well, thanks for checking in. I appreciate it, DBCc so he's all right am i all right i don't know billy wayne davis in a couple of minutes but first i gotta i gotta walk you through my morning if i could you know what's your biggest fear tell me what your biggest fear is just tell me i bet you identity theft is right up there right up there what a scary fucking thing

that is so needless to say transition segue i get a call an email from my mom she says i just got a call from a bank in michigan this woman barb called said that someone was trying to open a credit card account with your name. And they called me. My mother then says, sounds like fraud. I don't know what's going on. What's even more upsetting is how did they get my phone number? How did Barb at this credit union in Michigan get my mom's phone number? That was her big concern. Not the fact that what the fuck is going on with my information.

So Barb leaves a number. She calls me. And I didn't pick up because I was doing something. I call her back. Some guy with my name and my social security numbers trying to get a credit card. She said it smelled fishy. Wanted to check. She did a thorough check of who I was, clearly who my mother was,

other activity on the social security card. She did her job and called me and said, this is fishy. We didn't we didn't process this. We didn't allow him to get an account. But you might want to do some follow up on this. She gave me a bunch of stuff I need to do. I need to call TransUnion. I need to call the the other credit rating agencies.

I need to call the Social Security Administration who put me in touch with the federal trade commission uh where they gave me an affidavit and a uh a proof of uh that i reported this fraud and then i had to get my credit report i have to file a police report because some fucking criminal some criminal asshole somewhere in oakland california got hold of my social security number and my name and i guess that's all it takes to get multiple lines of credit so i called up transunion to tell them to put alert i don't know alert on the account i got my credit rating uh the full readout of it and sure enough there there was a phony address on there which also barb told me when she called the guy that do follow-up the mark Mark Marin who was trying to get a credit card. He hung up on her.

So she knew something was fishy. Did her job. But then when I get my credit report, not only is the fake address on there with activity, but there are four banks credit unions where this guy's tried to open accounts and successfully opened one. God damn it. Fuck this guy. This isn't funny't funny but i'm telling you protect yourself against this shit get an alert pay the 10 bucks a month to get uh your your uh information watched i had to call my bank and make sure everything was okay there i'd call my other credit cards make sure everything was okay there put extra security measures on everything uh was on the phone and then i just called these four or five credit unions that were listed as having transactions with me around the same date about a week or two ago two weeks ago i alerted

them to uh this dubiousness this fucking criminal activity in my name they were grateful but it slipped by one account got through the guy opened an account and uh provided some sort of identification a utility bill uh some sort of id so i guess what's happening it's all done online how how do you not process this shit if you're're a bank or someone who's lending money, you will accept scans of IDs? Do you know how easy it is to falsify that shit? I alerted all these credit unions. One of them was about to ship a credit card off to this dude. And if you're listening, you fuck.

What the fuck fuck you asshole anyways they were about to send this credit card out with a huge line of credit based on my credit rating which could still turn into shit i don't know what this guy's up to i've done everything i can but it was about to go out tonight the credit card was about to go out with a huge line of credit and who the fuck knows what would happen they were able to cancel it what a nightmare and you know and i don't know i i don't know if it's over or not but i did everything i could but the point being protect yourself get some sort of alert on your credit on your social you know so you know

if someone's if there's behavior going on. I didn't, and this could have gotten out of hand if it wasn't for Barb, the Lake Michigan Credit Union, doing her job. I got to send that woman some chocolates, perhaps a bouquet of flowers. Doing her job, doing background check,

finding me, finding my mother, and doing the right thing. Completely grateful. what a nightmare but you know the one thing that that i found disturbing about my own reaction to this was if i were a bigger name he wouldn't have been able to do this that that was my feeling it's like would this happen to Chris Rock? Would it happen to Louis C.K.? You know, I mean, maybe some people where he tries to use this bogus credit card, this criminal asshole posing as me, they'll be like, oh, Marc Maron, the comedian. I guess all he would have to say is, yeah, it's weird. We got the same name. But protect yourself, people.

That happened to me this morning. I'm not happy about it. It ate up my whole day. Watch your data back, will you? Man, scary shit. He could have bought a house. Anyway, let's go now to me talking to my pal Billy Wayne Dave. It's winter and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats.

Well, almost, almost anything. So, no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs, mozzarella balls, and arancini balls? Yes, we deliver those. Moose? No. But moose head? Yes. Because that's alcohol, and we deliver that too. Along with your favorite restaurant food, groceries, and other everyday essentials. Order essentials order uber eats now for alcohol you must be legal drinking age please

enjoy responsibly product availability varies by region see app for details it's a night for the whole family be a part of kids night when the toronto rock take on the colorado mammoth at a special 5 p.m start time on saturday march 9th at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton. The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5pm in Rock City at

torontorock.com Yes. I think I had to, you know throughout my life uh you know it was the only way i kept myself intact was to be defensive but well it's a yeah you know i i walk away i've learned like if i get into that moment where i raise my voice, I walk away because I can feel myself getting hot. And then once I get to a certain level of being hot, I can't. It's like that thing on stage when someone says something and you just turn.

Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm cold. I just go cold and I'm just saying. Cold and hot. You go cold and then all of a sudden you are possessed. Yes. By this other thing. Who the fuck are you?

And I'm just taking everything ever out on that person. Right. And I know that person, so I know their buttons, their insecurities, and I'll say that. And so now I just walk away because I'm like, I don't mean to do that. But let's talk about the stage thing because, like, they're, I mean, I haven't done that in a while, but it's always right there. Yeah. Like, as soon as, like, you know, I'm in my shit, I'm open, I'm doing my work, you know, and then one little thing and I'm like, what the fuck? Yes.

And then, like, you know, sometimes I have lost it full on on an audience. Yeah. I have lost it full on on an audience. Yeah. Well, my girlfriend pointed out a month ago, she said, once you've stopped drinking, you can, she was like, when you were drinking and you just had even a couple on stage and then that happened,

you were just full bore at that person. And then she was like, now you have more fun with them and you're not going to go. Right, it's a conversation. Yeah. It's not, yeah, it's not like a. Whereas before it was like, why would you interrupt what I'm doing?

And I still feel that way, but now I know there's a more constructive way to. Sure, like you're like, what? Are you serious? Yes. Is there more? Can I continue? It's, it drives me, like sometimes I can't sleep.

I'll have a good set and it's just like one person. It's like, what the fuck was up with that guy? Why did they come to the show? Right, right, and that's what you hold onto. Everything was good except for that. Yes. It's like chasing the dragon shit. Yeah, yeah, right.

It was so close to perfect. It was so close, it's never perfect. Billy Wayne, three names. Yeah. Billy Wayne Davis. Yeah. Did people call you Billy Wayne when you were a kid? No, everyone called me BW or Boo when I was growing up.

BW or Boo. Yeah. That's some southern shit. Yeah, you think Billy Wayne's as southern as you get, and then you're like, nah, I didn't even go by that. BW's more southern. Yes, and then I went by that when I first started doing comedy. BW Davis? Yes, and then I went by that when I first started doing comedy and a couple.

BW Davis? Yes, and then a couple people pointed out that were ahead of me, like, you should probably change that because when people see that, they think you're a black comic. And then that happened a couple times. I got booked at these one nighters.

Why would they think that? Because a lot of black comics have just initials. Oh really? I didn't know that. Especially in the South, that Southern. The Chitlin Circuit? I didn't want to call it that, but that's what it is. I thought they call it that.

I think so. Did I say that? With my accent, I'm very cautious about how I put things. Have you gotten into trouble? Not like on a grand scale, but definitely in situations, yeah. Like what? I found when I moved to Seattle, like if I talked about race at all, I was handling people after the show.

You were suspect. Yes. He's one of them. Yes, they're trying to figure me out. You can tell. And it was a lot of me. He talks like one of them. Yes, it was a lot of me explaining the joke and what I was doing.

Yeah. And then I was like, okay. And then I noticed quick in Seattle too that there's not a lot of black people or people of color at all. It's just white people. So it's really easy to be progressive. Yeah, there is, but it's a neighborhood.

There's a black neighborhood. And that's cracked me up because everyone from Seattle was like, oh, that's the ghetto. I'm like, no, that's a neighborhood that black people live in. That's not a ghetto. Yeah, what is up with that? So strange. But yet you're the racist. Yes, because of my accent.

Right, you have a racist accent. Yes, but I was the suspect. And I was like, you guys, I've grown up around black people. More than most people have. Yes. That always fascinates me. I was talking to Nate Bargetzi yesterday. to um nate yeah bargetzi yesterday you know and it's just that there there is a language and a a a sort of understanding uh in the south that is much deeper and much different and i'm not saying

the racist thing but they they have lived together yes you have lived together for years it's more it's not the language it's more of the tone right in the south right but but even but but despite that and whatever evolving the south has done in certain pockets, which I think it has, it's more integrated in some weird way than most cities. Yes. Like, the place where the racism was invented in this country is always more integrated than any city. Like, cities are structurally segregated. Yes.

Well, it's nate's joke about melting pot in new york city's like it's not really it's a bunch of pots that want to live next to pots like themselves yeah they're not melting yeah i don't know i i just think that there's a there's an integrity to to uh to the discourse down there that doesn't exist everywhere else because everyone else is just, we have no real experience with cohabitation or your ways, but we feel guilty.

Yes. Yeah. Well, and I think in the South, there is that, and this sounds so strange to say, is like there's a lot of people that don't have that guilt because it's like,

we grew up poor. My family didn't own slaves yeah we we were borderline slaves ourselves yes like i'm irish i came from slaves kind of thing is like we were poor too so that really is what it is it's a it's a class issue yeah and you know you get like and you get angry poor people fighting each other then rich people are like oh look at that yes there's the problem it's a racial problem. It's a racial problem. No, it's a poverty problem that you don't want to address. Yeah.

And everybody, you just let them fight it out. That's Memphis. That is Memphis in a nutshell. Memphis is crazy. Where'd you grow up? Crossville, Tennessee. It's between Knoxville and Nashville. It's a little mountain town, basically.

It's on a plateau. And how many people in that town? I mean, what is that? I get a little mountain town basically it's on a plateau and how many people in that town i mean what is that i get a little i get a little fascinated with the south i always say every time i'm there i think it's amazing and i'm just fascinated with it because i think there's more history there than almost anywhere yeah the country and there's still more culture left i think in the south you mean like people who live real lives the the indigenous people that have been there for generations and I mean indigenous by your family. Yes.

No, I know what you're talking about. You know, still sort of function that way. Yeah. It's not been plowed under. It's not that suburb, Best Buy kind of. I mean, it's starting to happen, but it's not. There's still like people living that life and who they are and where they came from. A little off the grid.

Yeah. The newly established grid of like, where are you shopping? Will we still go down to Joe's place? Yeah, like my grandparents drove to Rockwood, which is the town next to. Because the road when they were growing up was better to go to rockwood than the but they lived in our county for groceries for groceries and every like the drug store and everything god becky and back when people all americans sort of had jobs and you kind of knew the guy that did the car you knew the guy knew everybody knew everyone that worked the restaurant

you went to the same i guess it was dillard's or whatever it was. Sure, Dillard's at the mall. Yeah. It wasn't even like in the mall. It was just like a- Downtown? Yeah, just a three-story building. And in the 10-store downtown area? Yes, and there's a Burger Barn, I still remember. Burger Barn! Yes.

Rockwood is actually where Megan Fox was born. She grew up there until the fifth grade, and I was like, yeah, and she got out of there. That's why she's famous, because someone that hot still living there would be pregnant nine times already, because the big redneck dude. Finished. Found her when she was 15. And emotionally pummeled her, if not physically, into submission.

It's a give and take with both. So, well, what was the town? What was the racket? What was the racket? What was your family doing? Both my parents are teachers. Oh, really? And my mom's an English teacher. My dad's a history and PE teacher.

But he's mostly a football coach, is what he does. I use teacher with air quotes. He's the teacher. So that's what they needed him for. I'm sure, yeah. They needed another teacher, but he's... They needed a coach, I mean. with air quotes. He's the teacher. So that's what they needed him for. I'm sure, yeah. They needed another teacher, but he's- They need a coach, I mean. Yes.

Yeah. Yeah, so that's what he's done. And my mom wants to retire, and my dad's like, I'm not. I'm going to coach football until they find me dead on the football field. He loves it? He loves football, yeah. He worked his way up. He was a-

He's high school football? Yeah, loves it. Had opportunities to go coach college and stuff. Never cared about it. He likes coaching high school kids. Because he likes the fact that they're teachable and that, you know, they're raw talent and that is not. I wouldn't say anyone from my hometown has raw talent.

Or teachable. That's true. There may be a couple of them. He can structure them to work longer yeah but i but i mean it must be somewhat exciting to to not have the pressure you know i guess there probably is pressure in regional high school football in tennessee yeah it's a big deal uh he he was the head coach for a couple years of the high school team yeah and coach he became the head coach and uh was doing really well.

They were like undefeated one year, or like almost undefeated, and next year they were really good. Yeah. And then I called my mom one day and she was like, oh, by the way, your dad just quit being the head coach. Just said it nonchalant. I was like, whoa, whoa, why?

So I called him and he was like, I didn't get to coach. All I'm doing is dealing with dumb ass parents and politics he's like and i got in this to coach he was like being the head coach is not coaching it's just this he's like i couldn't imagine it's a political position yeah he that he was like i'm just dealing with assholes every day i know people who in academia of any kind that once you're the the department head then you're just uh then you got to deal with all the other people's problems yeah yeah yeah you're the the the representative yeah team why isn't my kid uh starting yeah it was a lot of that and like we donated a copier he should be playing a little more and he's like well he's got two left feet sir and he's mostly

autistic we donated a copy i mean that's probably a real thing i'm sure it's especially a small town and then they all have these delusions i fixed your car that's a lot yeah like i gave you that paint to paint your hood that's a real thing that's a real thing that happened my dad still hasn't had the car painted but he has the paint yeah that's fucking hilarious so then so then he became what the assistant assistant coach? Is that how that works? He just dropped down. He liked coaching running backs in the defense. So he likes coaching.

He doesn't like dealing with assholes. Well, how'd he do with you? How was the at-home coaching? Especially in high school, there was a couple times where it was just screaming on the field. Did you go to the school? Mm-hmm. And you played on his team?

Yeah. Oh, my God. It's like bad news. I didn't have a choice. There was only one school. And you probably didn't have a choice but to play either. Well, that's the thing. I didn't care for football until I,

because I wasn't, I was a late bloomer. So I just played because my dad loved it. I love baseball. You got brothers and sisters? I have two younger sisters who are better natural athletes than me, which is very frustrating. But they can't play football, right?

No, no. I'm not saying that in a sexist way. Is it available to them to play? I mean, they could have tried, but I don't think they had any desire. What were they doing? My sister's an amazing golfer. Golf. And my dad loves that, so that worked out for them.

So he got one, at least. And then my other sister, she played basketball, I guess, and then soccer. She hated soccer. And you're the oldest? Yeah. You're the boy? Yeah.

Pressure's on? Yeah, there was a lot of, well, that's, growing up, I realized, I was like, what the hell? Why do I have to be perfect? But then, because my mom was really hard on me, and then she had more understanding about the girls, and I was like, they're fucking assholes. Yeah. So it was just a weird time it was just me and my dad and then my grandmother lived beside us in a house yeah in another house beside us yeah whose mother i'm a mom's mom uh-huh and then

my uh dad's parents lived about two miles down the road on a farm they did yeah so i would uh i would go to the farm a lot. I gotta go. Was that where you earned it? But no, what, when you got angry or you needed to run off? I was either in a gym or just by myself somewhere because women are manipulative

from the start. And then you get two, and then they know all your... Who, your sisters? Yeah, just constant fucking picking at me like like what it's like a relationship it's like it's a relationship that has no benefits none no no no fun benefits no no uh just they can help you pick the right girl or something uh-huh uh but yeah it's like a relationship where they'll just pick at you very calmly until you explode and then

they're just like wow why are you acting crazy and you're like you just did that for like a day and a half so it was a lot of setup or they'd hit once they learned that they can hit me and i couldn't hit them back that was really that was a nightmare year um what it's i see i'm still like they're part of my brain just walks into this thing so they pick and they pick and they pick until you pop and they're like, wait, what? Yeah. Which is, as I got older, I realized it's pretty funny from their point of view, just to pick at someone until they lose their mind. I've done that.

And I have too. Dudes in my high school, they used to fuck with all the time. That's how a comedian starts. Yes, it is. It's like, oh, I know his tick. Where are my limits here? And it's probably made me more difficult in relationships

because I do see what women are doing more than I think most do. All right, look, I don't want to get into generalizations, but, I mean, I guess the best men just suck it up. That's my dad. He's an amazing man. He's an amazing man. And as I get older, I see some of the stuff he puts up with i'm like that is amazing that he just so you're impressed by it as opposed to like you're gonna take that shit i mean there was probably a period in like when my marriage was when i

realized it was unraveling i needed to get out yeah. Yeah. So I was about 26, 27, 28. Yeah. That I would look at my dad and be like, why the fuck are you taking that bullshit? Yeah. But then, like, the grander aspect is... Well, he's still married. Yes, they're still married.

Yeah. They're very happy, you know? My mom's a little... She's a strong woman, let's put it that's a little, she's a strong woman, let's put it that way. A very opinionated, strong woman. Scary as fuck. What does that mean?

Well, my grandpa, her dad died when she was 14. Yeah. She had two younger siblings, so she helped raise them. Right. And then had me when I was 21 because all she wanted was a family. When she was 21. Yeah. Yeah. Planned. Yeah, planned and everything. And they were married?

Yeah, they'd been married like less than a year or something like that. I think they were married before she got pregnant. I think, I don't know. I've never done the math. Is that common in the South? I think so. I think it didn't, when I got married.

One of those generalizations. It's very common. Yeah. Especially in a small town. Well, no, but I mean like that. No, is it common that people are actually married when they get pregnant? I don't think now, no. I think then, yeah.

Oh, you did it. There was a rule book. Well, they grew up down the street from each other kind of thing. My mom's a year older. That's sort of sweet, right? It's amazingly sweet and has ruined me, I think, in society today, because I know it works, I've seen it work,

and most people don't think it works. Yeah. So I have this almost expectation of like, no, this can work. I think I stayed in my first marriage a lot longer than I should have because I wanted it to work. And so your mom's tough. Yeah.

And she doesn't take any shit. Well, yeah, she's a teetotaler too. Oh, she's sober. Completely. I mean, I think her- Dry or sober? I think, no, her and my dad have like drinks from time to time when they want to go have fun.

But nothing, I mean, it's only with my dad. I've time to time when they want to go have fun. But nothing, I mean, it's only with my dad. I've only seen my mom, she's only drank with me like twice. She's fun as hell when she drinks. Yeah. I could see why she shouldn't drink. She's definitely got the gene. She get angry?

She get a... Well, it's like, oh, you are holding back. Holy shit. Yeah, yeah. Kind of thing. You're like, that's funny. I'm glad it's not, oh, you are holding back. Holy shit. Yeah, yeah. Kind of thing. You're like, that's funny. I'm glad it's not at me. Yeah. So how did you end up so fucked up?

I don't know. I have great parents and a great support system. I wanted to play baseball. That was my whole... That's what did it? That was my... You got bullied into football by your dad. Well, no, and I played college baseball.

You did? Yeah, my dad knew that football was something I just did. And then I got good at it, so it was fun. Billy Wayne Davis, that's a baseball player's name. Yeah, yeah, a lot of scouts like my name more than my ability, that's very true. So you did all right in high school because you had to?

Mostly, yeah. And then you went to college where? I played junior college baseball for two years, volunteer state. We're the number one team in junior college, which I like to say, to quote my friend Dan Whitehurst, is like having the biggest dick in third grade. It's pretty cool, but it doesn't mean anything. Yeah.

And then I played with guys that went and played professionally, and we were really good, and that's when I learned, oh, I can't. Can't make it. I don't have the skill. I had enough talent, but I didn't have the drive those guys did. My brother was up against that in tennis where he just realized, like, you know, he has to work twice as hard as guys who naturally have it. And you have to make a decision.

If you're not natural, is it worth it to make the cut? What's it going to take? That's it. And these guys, I also realized that I'd always switch sports. Yeah. And these guys play baseball all year. What was your position? I was a catcher.

Really? Which is rough on your body. But I'd get bored playing any other position. Yeah, because you're standing out there. It's mostly fucking standing there. Right, and the catcher, you gotta be on top of it. Yeah, yeah, they're literally throwing the ball to you every time.

I like that part of it. I like the aggression part of it. But yeah, these guys, their desire was much more than mine. I was like, I was already in community. I had a radio show

at the community college, which I was having way more fun than going to hitting a fucking ball. What kind of radio show? It was just the fucking morning. It was a morning show. Oh, really?

88.5. The college station. Yeah. You're doing a morning show. Oh really? 88.5. The college station. Yeah. You're doing a morning show. Drive time? I guess, yeah. It was a lot of, I would play stuff like from Goose Creek Symphony and the band,

because I knew the guy that ran the station wasn't listening. Right. Because it was like five in the morning. Right. So I would just play music I liked. Yeah. And like Sunvolt and Wilco and stuff like that.

Yeah. So I started getting like regular listeners, but they would be truckers that had this route. Right. That loved what I played because it was like Bob Seger and stuff like that. Right. So they were like, this is good. And then I'd just say dumb shit.

So that was my listenership, the baseball team and truckers that had a certain route in town yeah not not too far out yeah they were long haul guys they were yeah they were driving the the mayfield dairy truckers yeah like that yeah because they were up yeah they were just and they just found you and were you being funny did you have a guy with you or what it was just me and i would just, I got in trouble because I was supposed to read the news and I would make fun of the news

because I listened to Howard Stern and I was like, that's what he does. I mean, I ended up getting a B in the class because I wouldn't

stop making fun of the news. They wanted you just to be a newsreader when necessary? It was, I know they were teaching me how

to do all the certain parts. Be a broadcaster. Yeah. And I was like, I'm not gonna the certain parts. To be a broadcaster. Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, I'm not going to be a broadcaster. I'm not losing this accent anytime. I just took that phonetics class. It's not going away? I got a D.

So when did the comedy start? Well, I went to Western Kentucky for a couple years college or no just yeah yeah western kentucky university in bowling green it was actually cheaper because i lived on a border state when i went to junior college it was cheaper for me to go to in-state in kentucky than it was 40 minutes from my house to go to university of t Tennessee. I have no sense of place in most parts of the country. But, I mean, when you go to Kentucky from Tennessee, are you like, no, fuck, I'm in Kentucky now? Yeah.

What distinguishes the two from each other? There's a, Kentucky has like an attitude. Oh, really? It's kind of like, well, I think there's more old money there. Uh-huh. And then they, one of the funniest things I ever saw was I was in Louisville, Kentucky, and this dude was on the square holding the rebel flag saying, we will rise again, we will rise again.

And I just rolled, I pulled up and rolled down the window, and I was like, dude, you guys fought for the north. Yeah. You need to go South a little ways. And he just looked very confused, and I was like, yeah, you didn't fight for the Confederacy. And he just drove on, and my buddy's like, why did you do that? And I was like, I just wanted to mess his day up.

I bet you did. You can just reevaluate his whole life. I don't think he realized that, yeah, I think that's, there's a lot of old money, all that whiskey, just shady. Have you seen Justified? It's a very accurate show.

Oh, really? Yeah. I haven't watched it. Yeah, and I noticed basketball's a big deal there. Like, Tennessee football's a big deal.

I just think there's something. But what about that sort of, that southern style of kind of ignorance? I mean, how much do you come up against that? I mean, obviously it wasn't in your family. I don't know if your family was progressive necessarily,

but they were teachers. Yeah, I would definitely say, even to this day, they were just here. They can't stop playing devil's advocate. Uh-huh. Your folks? Yeah. Uh-huh.

So even stuff, like my dad loves listening to right wing radio. Yeah. And he drives and he doesn't believe any of it. He's like, I just like listening to the enemy, seeing what they're thinking. I was like, and I'll just sit there, I'm like, we've gotta turn this off.

He enjoys the hate buzz. Yeah, and he's like, I just like knowing what they think. And I was like, yeah, but it's pretty simple. And he's like, yeah, but you gotta know how they're doing it and stuff and i was like when they come at you yeah he's just a football i mean he was probably a general in his other life somewhere because that's how he thinks he's a big civil war buff is he a civil war buff huge it's it's annoying almost and he plans on he's like when i retire i'm gonna go do the the reenactments he's that's what he's gonna do for his retirement job not as a retire i'm gonna go do the the reenactments he's that's what he's gonna

do for his retirement job not as a job i think just go do it who's he want to play i haven't asked which side he wants to be on i don't want to know as a civil war buff does that mean he dragged you to vicksburg and i've been to vicksburg i've been to chigamaga i've been all yeah that was definitely a detour on a lot of our vacations. We've got to go see the battlefield. Yeah, which there's something strangely peaceful about all of them, too. Well, I mean, I think it's interesting. The thing that always interested me was that, you know, there were these divisions and families and communities that, you know, they would fight for a few hours.

And then, you know, when the general called time, they'd go over and eat with each other. Yeah. That, to me, is just insane. It was the bloodiest fucking war in the world. I mean, when you look at the numbers of people that died in that war, it's insane. It's scary. Yeah.

Hundreds of thousands, I think. Well, and I think that's why the SEC is so good at football and such a big, because that is still ingrained in that kind of. There's regional conflict. Almost manners involved in the conflict, too. Like when they poisoned somebody's trees, like an Alabama fan poisoned some famous trees in Auburn. Like even Alabama fans were upset,

like, no, no, we don't do that. Oh, right, right. It's kind of like- They're not with us yeah we'll punch them in a bar but we're not gonna kill trees that's just come on yeah that's uh that's a not fair play have some koof yeah yeah and then you're pissing while you're talking to me right but i wouldn't i wouldn't hurt somebody so so you you grew up sensing that there is still a competitive element between the Union

and the Confederacy? Oh yeah. Well it's just like, there's a great Mark Twain quote I recently read about travel runs all sense of bigotry and all that. And it really does. You just learn like, oh no, most people are awful. That's what I learned. I always wanna go the other way.

I always wanna believe that most people, hey, there's an okay dude in there. Oh yeah, definitely, okay. Yeah, that's why I can sit in a bar in Tennessee and just hear the most awful stuff because I'm like, that dude would help anybody. Right. He's just an...

You sort of have to make weird kind of exceptions. Sort of like, yeah, he's a little like that, but yeah, he's all right. Yeah. Well, we do that with comics all the time. I know. There's tons of comics. If you met just in another walk of life, you'd be like, that is an awful, terrible person.

But you're like, he's one of my best friends. He's fucking great. I know he's going to touch you in a weird way, but you just got to ignore that. He doesn't. It's a spectrum thing. I guess you learn how to tolerate things. And as long as it's not illegal.

Yeah, someone's hurt badly. Yeah, I guess that's true. I think that's true about comics, is that we're all kind of, you know, broken toys of one kind or another. And you're kind of like, eh, it's a little off. Yeah. And I'm drawn to the people that are kind of the most broken. Right. And I don't know that we necessarily get too close.

No. You know, I think that there's this weird openness to all of it where it's you know there's still an understanding you know i don't i and there's a lot of like we can be open but if you if i get open about you yeah you're like hey no you can't yeah that was between us yeah that's why we're not having that conversation yeah like no i can say that i'm a shitty person you can't say that but okay so you're in kentucky uh yeah um i uh joined a fraternity which i really bought into the they really sold me hard on the beer and pussy thing yeah and i was like this is exactly what i want because this is what i need i can see the future in this yes like for two years i was just a fucking meathead yeah playing sports in a small town so i was like this yeah and then i small town. So I was like this.

Yeah. And then I got into it and I was like, oh, this is awful. It didn't hurt that the guy that got me in the fraternity was an actor who, he's been on Mad Men and all this stuff. Oh yeah, he's out here? Yeah, his name's Matt Long. He's a really good actor. And I liked him, so he kind of got me, and then he just disappeared after that. What do you mean?

He got a play, and then he was gone. Yeah. That next semester, so he was like, and I was just with these dudes from Kentucky that had money. Drinking. Drinking. And then they just had a different outlook than I did, so. It's interesting, though, when you are from a certain class of people and then you realize,

like, oh, these people don't give a fuck. Nothing's ever going to go wrong. I was in a weird denial that people were different, that class was that different. That it didn't exist. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think I wanted it to. Yeah, yeah.

You want to be like, we're all the same. Yeah. Until really when it came down to it, no, you're not really. No, we're not. Yeah. I'm going to be okay forever. I don't know what's going to happen to all the same. Yeah. Until really when it came down to it. No, you're not really. No, we're not. Yeah, I'm going to be okay forever. I don't know what's going to happen to you. Yeah, yeah. It was, yeah.

There's a very, yes. Yeah. Yeah, and that opened my eyes to some stuff. And then these guys were already set, too. They already knew what their life was and all this stuff. And I was still trying to figure stuff out and just drinking. Were you the were you the crazier of the bunch oh definitely i uh because usually the guy that that's sort of the the the

guy from the outside it's like they all like to watch him yes they're very much give billy booze yeah right and he'll make the party happen uh until i would go too far or call them out on some bullshit uh-huh and then iist fights, were there fist fights? Some. Most of the guys were pussies, though. Are you a fighter, though? Not really. Have you?

Have I? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I was an athlete, too, so, like, I was always kind of good at it because I was an athlete, but I never understood. Like, in high school, dudes wanted to fight me because I would date their ex-girlfriend or something. I'd be why don't we just go play basketball it's the same we'll just prove

who's more athletic say stuff like that to them and then you could just see it on their face well what but we're supposed to let's just hit each other and i'm like yeah why i don't that proves nothing it just proves that I'm better at hitting. But then I, my parents always told me you never start a fight, but you never walk away from one either. They taught you that. Yeah. So yeah, that's why I was in a couple of fights and a couple of times I was in, in fights. I just got punched because I deserved it.

Oh yeah. Just, yeah. I got a lot of fuck you in me and then you had booze and that I'm just going to say stuff that I've already perceived that you've done. Yeah. And sometimes they hadn't done that. Like what? Just walking up to a drunk guy. Yeah.

Bigger guy. Yeah. Talking to some girl. Yeah. Showing off for my friends, and I'll say something to his girl. Yeah. Tom in Bowling Green, the dude just turned around and popped me. He didn't lay me out, but I just got the point real quick.

I was like, ah. And I smiled at him. I was like, I'm sorry. He's like, all right, we're cool. That's the cool thing about the South and fighting, though, is after it's over, we're buddies again. We're probably closer friends now. So there was a moment where you're like, yeah, I had that coming.

Yeah, it was like that slow motion. I'm's gonna yep take it hey yeah there's no yeah you can't duck at that point i just probably said something very dirty to the girl he was talking just because you want to start shit yeah yeah all right so all right so you're in this fraternity house and you drink him and you're the the mascot. You're the drunk mascot. There was another guy. We were competing. Oh, yeah? Yeah, he was very funny, too.

You put us together. It was a good time. When did you decide to do comedy? What inspired that business? I was taking all these communications classes. I was watching a ton. I've always been a fan of stand-up. My parents were always a fan of sitcoms and reading.

My mom always preached timing. She liked people with good timing. So I had that background in it. My dad always bragged about watching the first SNL. He had Richard Pryor albums and stuff. Oh yeah, that's good. Cheech and Chong. Yeah, oh yeah, Cheech and Chong.

And then all my speeches were funny. Yeah. And I liked being funny, and then this one girl. You took a speech writing class? Or a debate thing, or what? Speech writing, speech analysis, all the advanced public speaking, I did all that. Oh, okay.

I could have a major in communications right now, but I did a split business major, because that's what my. But you focused on speech, and then what, you'd have to write speeches and read them for the class. Yeah, we studied Clinton. Oh, really?

We studied him redefining the word he is and just a lot of his techniques. He's fascinating. Like what are some techniques of speech writing? Well, not really speech writing because the best technique is to write for their strengths. Okay. When with Clinton, he's just so charismatic

that a lot of it was like a shale. I imagine it looked like a Reno 911 script where it's like, okay, this is the main point. Oh right, right, right, like improvising. Billy. But what was the idea when you took those classes? I know a lot of people just do communications because they don't know what else they're gonna fucking do.

That was basically, I knew I was good at speaking in front of people just do communications because they don't know what else they're gonna fucking do. That was my, basically I knew I was good at speaking in front of people from high school and stuff. Why, why'd you speak in front of people in high school? I was in student council and then. You did that shit? Yeah. What, your dad tell you to do that? No, we got an extra credit and then we got these

t-shirts that said student council and had staff on the back. Uh-huh. And that was like a free pass to do whatever the fuck you wanted. Like, teachers did not. Oh, really? So, yeah. You're like future leaders of America, these guys.

And it was like a cool thing in our school. It wasn't like the nerdy. It was like the cool seniors and juniors when I was a freshman. So, you were a jock and a student council guy. Yeah, I was like a liaison. That's why this nerd thing irritates me, because they're getting too powerful, and they're getting way too cocky.

Yeah. Because I was like a liaison between the nerds and the jocks. Because I had interest in English and history and reading and all that because of my mom, and then I lived in this jock world because I was an athlete. Right. So I was never comfortable in either. So I was never comfortable in either. So I was going back and forth.

And you were the funny guy. So, like, I know what that's like. You could speak to both. You were intermediary. You weren't locked in to being a dick. Yeah, I couldn't. And you weren't locked in to being, you know, socially awkward. But the nerds, I found, were bigger dicks.

Well, but back then, then i mean i don't know how old you how old are you 33 well you know i i mean there was a time where nerds in in in high school when i was younger they they they could only hang around themselves and they were socially you know awkward and they you know a lot of them like to play chess and dnd and they were really good at math and they just didn't they were were like a different, from a different culture. Yeah. Like I didn't have anything against them, but they always impressed me in a certain way, but they were not socially easy.

No, they weren't. No, you're right. Yes. And they, I think they brought a lot on them that they couldn't. Like my, I have a cousin, he's 12, he has Asperger's. Uh-huh. And I think he's hilarious, but he's also, he has that weird where he's a dick. Yeah, right. But doesn't realize he's a dick.

Right. And I see that in friends I had in high school that were like, oh, they probably had, they didn't realize they were being a dick, and then they'd get this anger that everyone was a dick back to them. Right. Like, but you're being an asshole first.

Yeah, they don't necessarily know because their brains are preoccupied. Well, yeah, why would I have social grace when I put this in and this in and get this? Right, right. I'm working on a problem. Yeah. That's what I want to tell all the nerds now. You guys need to ease up.

Well, they're the dominant cultural defining thing now. Yeah. And now there's a lot of people that aspire to that somehow but i mean and there's a lot of people that just dress the part yeah but i mean i've had conversations with people about what true nerdism is and it's really an almost um it's an obsessive interest uh in something and and uh it defines who you are. Well, I think that's why I've related to nerds, too. But you've got the other thing. You've got the weird kind of, you know, the thing that makes comics different is that

before everything else, there is charm. Yeah. And, like, you know, I think I could probably resolve this just by being me. Yes. Yes. Let me, I got this. probably resolve this just by being me. Yes. Yes. Let me, I got this. I got this.

Let me talk to him. Give me, if I'm not back in two minutes, you should come get me though. Yeah. It's just this, this other thing is that we don't want to do that other work. No. We're going to be okay at shit. Yeah. But, but, you know, we'll get by because, you know, we'll do a good enough to get in.

And then it's just sort of like we're hanging out. That's definitely why having a manager now helps me tremendously. Because it is like that was most of my career. It's like, I got it. Yeah, yeah. I'll just call them. It'll be fine. Oh, they were mad at me.

Right. Oh, they were? Why? Yeah. Oh, because I didn't do the thing I told them I would do. Right. No, you need to. Yeah.

And also, you should just do what you do and let the managers and the club owners do what they do. All right, so here you are. You're the liaison. Okay, so you're in Kentucky. You got your chops doing the speech thing, so you're watching comedy. So a lot of me entertaining at parties, and this girl I was dating at the time said,

you need to go do an open mic. Because she noticed that I was depressed. I didn't realize I was dating at the time said, you need to go do an open mic. Because she noticed that I was depressed. I didn't realize I was depressed. There were days that I would just drink and then not get out of bed. Is that depression or alcoholism? It was depression. Because I was never an everyday drinker. Right.

Ever? Ever. Never. I mean, I probably went on a couple binges where it would be like five or six days of just like, let's do this. Yeah. That was a lot of on the road, too. Sure. You're supposed to. I was still doing stuff. Like, then I would just lay there for two days in between drinking.

And she thought that somehow or another an open mic would resolve. She goes, you need to see if you can do this. Oh, you'd been talking about it. Yeah. So you were obsessed with it, you'd been talking about it. Yeah. So you were obsessed with it, and you didn't have the balls. Yeah, or even the thought process to be like, oh, I could pursue it. I didn't know how. I thought, I'll move to Chicago and do Second City.

Yeah. And stand-up was never, I never thought about that. Yeah. And then she and I went and called Zany's and had a month, wrote. In Nashville. Yeah, wrote five minutes. And we broke up in that month.

So there's a few more minutes. Yeah, well, yeah, yeah. Yeah, hasn't got that material now. Yeah, I probably hung on to that for four or five years, her breaking up with me in that time frame. Oh, really? In terms of resenting her? Yeah. But then eventually realized, no, that's what she was

that was what we were supposed to do. You gotta start thinking about life like that. Yeah. That's one of these weird keys to things. There's no time for regret or spite over something that didn't go right. Eventually you gotta be like, well, I did get this out of it. Yeah.

And I've learned to ask certain questions about people. Yeah. But also like she told me she was bipolar six months in a relationship. Yeah. That's something you should lead with. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I don't know if you should lead with it,

but certainly within the first week or two. Yeah. Yeah. Like if after two weeks you're like, this may continue, by the way, I may have massive mood swings. Yeah, but also she got you to do comedy for the first time. Yeah, and I remember doing it and doing well because the guy on before me was awful.

And I was like, okay. And I remember throwing up before. Really? And I'd seen that growing up. People do that before sports and stuff. I always thought it was, I was like, this is bullshit. They're so dramatic. Yeah. And I was so nervous I threw up

and then that made me more nervous that you could get that nervous and I was getting that nervous. Wow. And so, but as soon as I stepped on stage, I was fine. Yeah. That went away and I did well and then a cat said, hey, there's this open mic on Tuesdays. We do every week. you don't have to bring

people like zanies and all that stuff so you made an impression on the micer community yeah it was a guy named landon lion but that's like but that's the biggest deal and like when a lot of young comics are like why can't i why can't i why can't i because you've got to impress the other comics yeah we're out of the gate yeah you got to show them something different, or at least within a month or two, the other guys who have got their shit little tight community and they know the things, they've got to go like, yeah, we'll let him in. Yeah. Like, that guy's all right.

Yeah. Yeah. And I wouldn't have, if that dude wouldn't have told me, I probably wouldn't have seeked out. I would have probably just kept that monthly Zany's thing. But he was like, oh, there's this Tuesday thing. This guy's cool. See where the charm paid off? Yeah, it was well yeah you're right and then i remember getting off stage and going like oh this is what i'm gonna do and then like maybe three months later i was

telling my parents telling my parents they actually asked me they're like so do you want to drop out and i was like how did you like you're just you're miserable yeah and all you talk about is this yeah and i was like i have a good gpa i can go back so i told him in seven years if i'm not where i'm supposed to be seven wow i was 21 i knew enough about it at that point to be like it's gonna take this long to so you were pretty obsessed with it yeah and you told your parents you were doing it yeah and they were probably concerned at first. I don't think they were. No, that's good. I had a decent little job. Yeah.

Doing what? At the UPS store. It's very interesting. Because there's people coming in and out. You get to see what they get. It was fucking great. It was? And I could do it stoned. It was great. One day I showed up drunk. Yeah. They didn't care. What do you mean you could see what they get?

You see what people are buying and shipping. Oh, yeah? There's like private mailboxes there. How do I ship this? Yeah, well, I learned how to pack stuff and then just like, you could tell a lot about people's personalities. That's a practical skill, knowing how to pack things. It is.

People don't have it. No, I know. And it's weird when I'm like, no, you need to do this and this. And people are like, how the hell? I'm like, it's just don't have it no i know and it's weird like when i'm like no you need to do this and this and people are like how the hell i'm like it's just something i did yeah picked up along the way i can cook a steak too yeah thanks outback so you work there too yeah oh wow that was a no mom and pop organizations for you no not really i just went in bowling green i just went i was like what restaurant makes the most money the steakhouse yeah and. I just went in Bowling Green. I just went and I was like, what restaurant makes the most money? The Steakhouse.

Yeah. And then I just went there. So you can cook a steak. Yeah, I can cook a steak pretty good. I was a server, but I learned how, that's what I wanted to learn how to do. Cook a steak. Yeah, and that's what I learned how to do.

So you can pack shit, you can cook a steak, and you know that if you're dating a bipolar person, they should tell you up front. You can throw a ball or two, a few different types. Yeah, I can hit them. Yeah, you can write a speech. Yeah, somewhat. You know how much you can and can't drink, kind of?

None, yes. I can drink none. It took me about a decade to learn that, that I should drink none. How many arrests? Three or four. Uh-huh. Two, I would say, were my fault. Oh, really?

Yeah. One, I don't want to. It's still pending? No, it's not pending. Uh-huh. It's just, it was terrible. Yeah? Yeah, it was the end.

Oh, yeah? Of the marriage. Oh, oh. Yeah. I don of the marriage. Oh, oh. Yeah. I don't want to. Oh, really? We're not talking? Yeah, me and her are at a really good place now.

So me bringing up stuff like that. Not going to help anything. Nothing. Yeah, it can only do damage at this point. Uh-huh. Everything's cool. Everything's pretty cool. As cool as I think it's ever going to be.

She's back in, where is she? She lives here now. Oh, so that's why your folks are out, because of the kid? Yeah. And then I think they were just interested in Los Angeles. They've never been here? Mm-mm. Really?

Mm-mm. Where'd you take them? My dad took my mom to Venice Beach, because he'd been here once before with me, and I took him to Venice. You liked it? It's perfect for, you know. Watch people and eat. Yeah, and then be like, there's LA,

they're doing it to people crazy. I'm like, it kind of, it is a good dichotomy of LA, I guess. It's one of the few places in LA where there are people. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, like walking around. Well, and then I took him through where the Chinese Theater was and I was gonna stop. Hollywood Boulevard.

So you took him to Hollywood Boulevard and Venice Beach. And my mom was like, this is like a mall. I don't care. And I was like, that's okay. It is now. And then I was like, Dad, I can take you to the Hollywood sign. He was like, no, I saw it from the interstate. I'm good.

I was like, I guess that is. Then they're done? That's pretty much, I mean. Get some Mexican food? Yeah. Okay. Across the street from our place. Yeah.

That was about it. I mean, they're so great, my parents. They just want to help out, and they're not like hipsters. They don't want to go eat at a restaurant. That doesn't fascinate them. Just want to hang out with you and the kid. Yeah. How old's the kid?

He's four and a half. All right, so let's get back to it. So you start doing comedy at Zany's, and then, you know, what, you just stayed in Nashville? Yeah. I just started living on a couch with Buddy, open mic-er Buddy, him and his girlfriend. Yeah. I lived on a couch for eight months

and worked at a restaurant in Nashville. And if I wasn't doing, if I wasn't on stage, I was at Zany's just sitting in the back watching. And that was my whole life was just figuring out how to do it and just drinking when we weren't doing that, trying out drugs, listening to comedy and comedy and comedy. That's it. That's the life right there.

Yeah. No other world. Not going to write. Not going to do sketches. No. Sit in the back of Zany's. Going to drink for probably half for free yeah yeah and uh and watch the dudes do this and then go out after and then talk about comedy yeah

and then drink and then bug like jake johansson and people that want to hang out and be like well how did you yeah yeah and then jake be like hey just ease up did he yeah i wasn't offended i mean i probably was a little bit. Like, oh my God, I was scared. And then probably a couple years later, I was like, he was really nice about that. Yeah? Yeah, he handled that very nice. I was probably awful because I was drunk and very aggressive and passionate.

How long did it take you to get up to headlining? Probably five or six years. Yeah? Because when did I work with you? You were featuring for me? Yeah. Yeah. That was...

Yeah, you're one of them strong features. Well, that's... It took seven and a half years to get feature work at Zany's. Uh-huh. Like, I was already headlining like B-rooms and stuff. Right, right, right.

That's the funny thing. It's like people are like, I was headlining B-rooms. I'm like, yeah, you're what they could afford. Yeah. Yeah, I'll headline for the same amount I featured for. Well, that's... Well, and I was making a little moreRooms. I'm like, yeah, you're what they could afford. Yeah. Yeah, I'll headline for the same amount I featured for.

Well, and I was making a little more, but that's the thing. They just saw me forever as that goofy emcee that came in. Well, that's the problem with everybody has with their home clubs. Yeah. It's like they won't fucking headline you unless you go away. That's why I had to move to seattle for six years that's where you went yeah how how many years into comedy were you i was about three and a half in and you went to seattle well i was uh i'd worked on the road with ralphie may a little bit

yeah you were in this garage once before sitting over there oh yeah smoking that's where you saw him ralphie in seattle no he came through nashville i was i'd worked my way up to being the house mc pretty much i got to work work with Hedberg three weeks before he died. Oh, God. What was that like, dude? At the time, it was the most amazing thing in the world to me. Because when I was still in college, I found him on Napster before he was famous. Yeah.

And he was my little secret. Yeah. And I was a comedy nerd. No one else really gave a shit. Yeah. And then was my little secret. Yeah. And I was a comedy nerd, and no one else really gave a shit. Yeah. And then he got huge, and I remember telling him, I was like, when you got popular, it pissed me off, because you were my secret. Yeah. And he was like, yeah, Napster, right?

I was like, yeah. Did a bunch of drugs the first night. Second night, I was just exhausted. It was all overwhelming to me. Yeah. And it was a little calmer, and I went to leave, and Mitch looked up. He's like, hey, man, will you go get me some drink? I was like, yeah.

And he was like, and get yourself something. I want to hang out with you tonight. And we went and did blow at this closed bar in Printer's Alley all night. Did he talk much? Yeah, he and I talked the whole night and then Lynn was there too. And that was, it was another two guys that were with us were like local guys that were really drunk. Uh huh.

But. He always seemed like he needed to lock in and have some company. Yeah. That was very much. Yeah. And I, you know, I don't even like, I was never a guy that did cocaine. Yeah. Like I've probably done a handful of times. Only one time without drinking. Yeah. I've probably done it a handful of times.

Only one time without drinking. Yeah. Every time I did it was so we could drink more. More, exactly. And people are like, I'm just going to do coke. I'm like, why would you do that? Yeah, it seems crazy. Yeah.

Yeah, I was the same way. It's like going to a pot dealer and be like, I need some pot. And I got coke. I'm like, that is the exact opposite of what I want. Right. Well, yeah, no, it was always for me how to go together. Yeah. Get that balance. Yeah, no, I could never just do it. Just do coke? I'd still be I want. Right. Well, yeah, no, it was always for me how to go together. Yeah.

To get that balance. Yeah, no, I could never just do it. Just do coke? I'd still be running somewhere. Yeah. So you were just doing coke, no drinking? No, we were drinking. Yeah.

Yeah. And this was three weeks before he died? Yeah. It was over, I mean, it was also a lesson, because to this day I've never seen anybody use the quantity and different types of drugs he was using yeah it's just booze tons of just straight vodka basically yeah just he had a bag what he called skittles it was just pills yeah he just pulled those out and then he'd find blow afterwards right so he wasn't uh doing the h with you i think that was something he got he kept

private yeah yeah yeah no i had a couple of friends that yeah that did he mention this to you and i was like nope no yeah i think that was uh that was the one that was where he drew the line that's something he didn't have very specific type of friends for that type of behavior i would now i would hope so yeah yeah well it's sad man it's sad and you know because i knew he looked a little beat up by that time i think too didn't yeah i remember when he walked in the green room there in zany's yeah and just how jaunt yeah he looked yeah and then almost like he looked like he had jaundice too he was like yeah like greenish yellow yeah yeah he had a weird power power to his skin and his yeah yeah it's like hollow yeah yeah it

was not the guy that I pictured. And that was sad, man. And he wore those glasses, and you couldn't quite see his eyes. And then the shows were, he was, a couple shows I had to pull him off stage. Like, he would just be laying on stage and telling me to come get him. And then I, like he was in. Did he do well? Yeah, that was the saddest part that I realized later.

Yeah. Because at the time I didn't realize. I just thought, this is so amazing and cool. That's a nightmare that the more fucked up you are, the more they like you. Yeah. You're fucked. Yeah. Yeah, you can't get out of it.

You're fucked. Yeah, they expect it. Yeah, no one's going to be like, hey, stop. Yeah. Because everyone around you is making a ton of money. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's when I realized how clubs work, too. Like, oh, this dude's, oh, okay.

If you're making them money, they don't care. Yeah, they want to make sure you got what you need. It helped me realize that. I was like, oh, then I don't have to be here. So I need to behave myself. Right. But, like Mitch told me, too, I remember one of those nights, he was like, make a list.

Make a list of all the people that fuck you. And then when of those nights, he was like, make a list. Make a list of all the people that fuck you. And then when you get famous, he was like, there's several clubs I go back to just to fuck with them. Really? Yeah, and I was like, hmm. He's like, I make all their money, and then I make these dickheads run errands for me the whole time. He had a plan, huh?

I was like, okay. Well, he was a real road guy. Living the dream. Yeah. So that was an important lesson to learn, and you learned that before you went to Seattle? Yeah. Yeah, I knew, well, I met my ex-wife

in West Palm Beach, Florida, on the road, and we'd been dating a couple months. It was a lot of fun. I was in over my head. She was 31, I was 25. She was a DJ, Puerto Rican, living the dream, I thought. And then she was like, hey, I got a job in Seattle, would you wanna move with me?

And I'd never been west of Texas, and I was like, yep. Because I just knew the scene there, too. There was a scene there. And I had this, I was starting to realize that I wasn't gonna be allowed to be the comic I wanted to be just doing this out. Yeah. Because with my voice and then my name.

Did you ever work with Bees? Yeah, he was the first, I quit my serving job. To work with Killer Bees? Yeah, because it was the last minute, like we need a MC for the week. And I was there, can you be here tonight? And I was like, yep.

Called the guy, and he was like, I can't find anybody to come in. And he was like, well, if you don't come in, you're fired. And I was like, yeah, yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's like, I'm not coming in. Anymore. Anymore. He's like, well, I'm going to have to fire you.

I was like, yeah, yeah, whatever you want to call it. I'm not coming. I'm done. I can leave you tickets was like, yeah, yeah, whatever you wanna call it. I'm not coming. I'm done. I can leave you tickets for the show, I think, if you wanna come to that, if you wanna hang out. So when you work with Killer Bees, did he pack it out? Mm-hmm. So you're emceeing this regional dude who's huge.

Huge. Huge, and that's your intro into the life. Yes. That was the night you committed. That was it. That was my first gig. And the second week was Bruce Bruce. Interesting.

Both ends of the spectrum. Yes, in two weeks. They called me last minute again. So you're dealing with all white. And then all black. But like different type of white. Like not your audience all white. No, I know. Southern all white. And then all black. But like different type of white. Like not your audience all white. No, I know.

Southern all white. Yes. Old school. Yes. Yeah. And they don't speak the king's English either kind of thing. Like a lot of B's act I didn't understand. Really?

A lot of it I did not. I don't get what he's talking about sometimes. Save up. Save up. Yeah, I still don't know. But B's gave me great advice too about sometimes. Save up. Yeah, I still don't know. But he's gave me great advice too about drinking. Save up. He said don't drink before the show.

He's like, because you'll get a little, you'll find that perfect buzz one time and then you'll spend 20 years chasing it. And he's like, drink afterwards. And that helped me. Was he straightened out yet? No. No. And that was good advice coming from someone like that at that time, because he was all

over the place. That one night you hit the perfect buzz, you're going to spend the rest of your life- Chasing it, trying to get that on. It's not about the comedy. Mm-mm. It's about, there's that one night where that combination- Yes. Between comedy and booze-

Is perfect. Perfect. Is perfect. And you'll be chasing that for 20 years. And there's something to that. No, no doubt. Cause our heads are all fucked up and you're like, oh, okay, like I'm wearing underwear

that I'm very comfortable talking in. That's right. You know what I mean? Superstitious. Yeah. The second week was Bruce Bruce. I remember walking in with my bag and the staff was getting ready and they all stopped.

I was always so nervous. Cause I was like like i've never really done a black room yeah let alone sold out right and uh so nervous and the whole staff they're like doing their and they all just stop and just look at me all at once the whole place gets quiet yeah and one girl goes are you the mc and i was like yeah and then they all just fell out and i was like this is this is the end at zany's yeah I was like this is the end yeah lasted a week I was a comedian for a week how'd that go really good um Bruce Bruce said just don't be afraid and I was like okay I was the first minute I was afraid and they did not and then someone said something it pissed me off yeah and after

that I was fine you you you you held your ground yeah I said something and it pissed me off. Yeah. And after that, I was fine. You held your ground. Yeah. I said something right back because it was that instinct. Yeah. And I was just like, fuck you. And when I did like, fuck you or something like that, they were all on my side. It was the confidence thing. I was like, okay, thank God.

That's actually a fairly amazing moment to do well in front of a black crowd. I felt invincible for a while. Like way too cocky. Yeah. Because it really is about that. Because the lesson, like what he said, is exactly it. Don't be afraid. Just be yourself.

Yeah. And if you have any insecurity at all that shows, they're going to see it. Yeah. And they're going to be like, no, he doesn't have his shit together. Yeah. That's, yeah. Yes. We paid for his show.

Yeah, what is this yeah but then i found out you know bruce bruce likes a white mc to go up there he does yeah that's that's his thing it is so he asked for it yes yes look at that yeah they told me that after that week i just thought oh they've got confidence in me like no i was the only white guy available uh Uh-huh. So I met her. We moved to Seattle because I knew Mitch had been out there. I knew about you. Yeah, and I knew the politics would be all right. Yeah.

You know, would lean towards my side. You could get in. Yeah. Because you had chops, and it was a small enough scene that you could go in as a middle, and you were already strong. Yeah, yeah. I did that in San Francisco, where you didn't have to go through all the ranks. No, I just- Because you had already strong. Yeah, yeah. I did that in San Francisco where you didn't have to go through all the ranks because you had an act.

Yeah, I just had to do a couple open mics and not introduce myself until I got on stage and then they're like, oh, who's this guy? Right. And then after that it was, yeah. So you were up there for six years? Yeah. My plan was three, three to four.

Yeah. We got married real quick. No, under eight months we got married in vegas real quick man i was just having a good time sure man uh sounds fun uh then it went south pretty quick after the kid uh yeah i mean before the kid it was not good the kid was he wasn't planned on my part. I wasn't upset about it, I've always wanted to be a dad. So, you know, I was like, we're gonna make this work. And then it was like, no. And then that got ugly, you know, the divorce and stuff.

That got pretty ugly. So I was kinda stuck in Seattle for a couple years. Is that where you got arrested? Yeah. One arrest before. Before her? Before the pregnancy. No, no.

All my arrests came when I was with her. All my trouble with the law. I don't know if that's a coincidence, but. Was it drinking related trouble? Oh, yeah. I was saying that the other night. I was like, oh, you know, I've never been arrested when booze wasn't involved. So. I went through a roadblock booze wasn't involved. Yeah. So.

Well, see, I went through a roadblock here like two weeks ago. Yeah. And my first thought was like, oh, fuck. Oh, wait. Hey, I'm okay. Okay, this is great. How you doing, officer? Yeah, just look him right in the eye.

Yeah. What's up? Yeah, what's going on? I literally have nothing to hide. This is fantastic. It's an exciting moment. Yes. To pull up to a roadblock and go like, everything right i'm good yeah are you okay and they're looking at

your eyes go ahead look in yeah yeah i'm shit faced i'm good yeah i am clear man well i did that uh there's like two months after i was sober i was hanging out with some buddies of mine that were in a band stayed and watched them all night they drank the whole show and i was like two months after i was sober so we get in the car and we're driving we go through like a late night place to get something to eat and we're in there and that's when i realized my buddy who in my head i was like well he's the least drunk he should drive yeah and then he's ordering food and i realized how drunk he was and i was like maybe wait a minute i can try hey i'm sober let me drive and he's like yeah what i was like it's all new to me i'm sorry i thought we were being very smart about this but when i worked with you had you just were you sober

or had you just gotten sober how how long how long you got uh when we worked together we i was sober yeah right um the first time we met, I was not. Here? Yeah. With Ralphie? Yeah, with Ralphie, no, I was not. And then that time in San Francisco was definitely- Not sober. That's the first time I did Molly.

I think the only time I've done Molly. Yeah, you weren't just drunk. No, I was already drunk. And then this girl's like, do you want some of this? And it was like white powder. And I was like, I don't want to be up in San Francisco on Coke. I was like, I'll get arrested. She was like, powder and i was like i don't want to be up yeah in san francisco on coke yeah i was like i'll get arrested yeah she's like no it's it's it's called molly you just put it on your tongue and i was like all right fuck it yeah and it's just mdma i guess i'd never done that

ecstasy yeah yeah and i guess when we about the time i started talking to you like it's starting to kick it kicked in i was like this is. And then you kept asking me leading questions. I was like, I need to stop talking, but I feel so good about everything. Like, how could any of this bite me in the ass? Yeah. No, you didn't let on. You were like, I just want you to know this and about, you know, that thing. And I'm like, all right, what do you mean?

You're like, I don't know. I can't. Yeah. Am I going to do it? I like you. Yeah. Know that. what do you mean you're like i don't know i can't yeah i like you yeah know that oh well so all right so after now i imagine that the the sobriety was you know primarily to to at least support a a a reasonable relationship with your ex and the kid. Yeah.

And the new relationship, whatever that is. Are you married again? No, no, no, no. I did find a wonderful girl. I realized, like, because for two years after my divorce, I just kind of lived on the road. I didn't have a place.

I slept on a bunch of couches in a hotel room. And all your money was funneling back? Yeah, like no money. Yeah, it was all going. As soon as I got money, it was. Yeah, and then sometimes not even the kids, I didn't have any. It was like lawyers and fees and all that stuff. It's just a nightmare.

And I was quite a mess. It was fun. It was a lot of fun. But I remember I met her and she had a boyfriend. And I just remember thinking, and then I ran into her in New York. I went and saw her and her boyfriend was there. So you left Seattle and went where? Just on the road. Then I met this girl, my girlfriend now, at a comedy festival. She had a boyfriend who was six years younger than her. And I just, I remember thinking like, I really like her. Yeah.

And I remember sitting her down like this in like Cobble Hill in Brooklyn and being like, hey, when this is done and this runs its course, give me a call. Right. Because I like you. Yeah. And she was like, what are you talking about when this is done? I was like, this will be done. Yeah. You're six years older.

Believe me. And then she was like, well, what about you? And I was like, this will be done. Yeah. You're six years older. Believe me. And then she was like, well, what about you? And I was like, yeah, my wife is six years, my ex-wife is six years older than me. Yeah. You're planting the seeds. Yeah. You're like, I'm going to have to.

She loved it. She was like, it's such a strong move. And I was like, it's really not, because if it doesn't work out, who gives a shit? It's just a line I say. If it does, I'm pretty awesome. Yeah. We'd text every now and then just to say, hey.

One day the text started getting- Heated? It was just like more. Yeah. Like there was more of a conversation, not just like, hey, where are you? Yeah, yeah. What's up? Yeah.

And I was like, something's happening. And then she called my bluff. I was like, hey, why don't you come work with me in Nashville next week? I did a couple of headlining dates. She's a comic? Yeah. And she was like hey won't you come work with me in nashville next week i did a couple headline dates she's a comic yeah and uh she was like okay i was like oh oh okay well i'm gonna make some phone calls i did not i just thought that would be a nice fucking thing to say yeah she came and we got along really well and then it just kind of went from there and then she's a drinker uh-huh she's a lot better at it than I am. And so there's a couple months where I would just go a little crazy.

And then there was just one night the next day she was like, hey, if you want to keep doing this, you can't do that anymore. What was that? Just be a mess. I would just get sloppy. I wasn't violent or anything when I was drinking.

I was never violent. I was just sloppy and embarrassing more than anything. Because it was a race. I wasn't violent or anything when I was drinking. I was never violent. I was just sloppy and embarrassing more than anything. Because it was a race. I learned to drink in the South. It's a fucking race. Yeah. It's like, oh, we're going to have two beers? Why would we do that?

Why would we just have two beers? I still don't understand. So she's a controlled drinker. Yes. She's very good at it and very good at being drunk. Yeah. To me, it was like, okay, we're this drunk. Let's get more

drunk let's get lost yeah let's go on an adventure while we would just sit here and talk to these same people yeah that guy has a weird haircut i need to go say things to him yeah um and i was like okay i was like i'll just quit drinking she's like okay and i just I just did. So when you work, I mean, how long did you open for Ralphie? On and off for about five or six years, probably. So he was a big... Oh, yeah. He kept me afloat a lot and taught me how to do the road. Like, what did you learn from Ralphie?

Just how to work. I mean, he works. Yeah. You know, it's not necessarily what I wanna end up doing, the way he does it. Right. Because it's, you know, 50 weeks a year. Yeah.

And he's on the road the whole time doing radio and you know, he hustles. It's interesting when you meet that guy. They're up in the morning on the phone. Yeah. Doing the phone, for next week. Yeah. Doing the phoners, yeah.

Yeah, it's almost like, oh, okay. And then just to keep that, and then to keep building it, because you start seeing guys that'll have it for a while, and then they're gone. Yeah. And then just to keep,

and then he works a room really well. Yeah, he's a monster. And then to this day, I've never seen any comic besides maybe Caliendo that's better at radio. Uh-huh. He takes over the show.

Yeah. Which I still can't do, and I don't have a desire to do either. I think it's part of my problem. But it does work. Yeah. And he said that he swears by radio as what is more responsible for his fame

than anything else. Yeah, I'm sure that's true. Regional radio. And then he he's taught me how to structure like long form sets and things like that now he's a little more verbose than i am yeah but as far as an arc and everything well no it's important to like you know to see somebody who who does it and nails it and he's a pro about it and you know really puts on a show it's a it's a like because they're part you like me, you know, you kind of get in, it's like, I can pretty much do what I want.

Yeah. Yeah. I didn't take it easy. Yeah, that was my, yeah. I'm going to sit around and write some shit down today.

Maybe get to it. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe get to it. Yes. Yes, if there's not some on NPR I heard that I want to go read about.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But yeah, when you meet those dudes who are like, I got to, like,

you know, now I got to write a new hour, but I don't, I only can write by doing,, exactly. Yeah. But yeah, when you meet those dudes who are like, I gotta, like, you know, now I gotta write a new hour, but I only can write by going up on stage. That's, and he made me feel better about that because I was always... He does that too, right? Yeah.

Yeah. Because I was, I have friends that would just sit and write. Write jokes, yeah. And I was like, I can't do that. Yeah.

Because when I do it, it sounds like I'm telling a joke. Right, exactly. I'm not being a comic. I'm the same way. I need to just form it in my head and i'll know how i can say that's right that made me feel because for a while i was like well maybe i'm not doing any work but my act is better than these guys the

weird thing is about determining how much work you do is like you know we dedicate our life to it yeah we live the life yes we get on stage yes and you know we're building shit out you know how we do it is our business. Yeah. But I mean, the whole sort of working the other stuff, which I didn't really know how to do, which is like making the connections, making sure that you're not a dick at the club. Yeah. Do the radio.

Show up for the radio. Shutting your mouth. Kill on the radio. When this dude is talking, that was a big thing for me. Like, okay okay this guy's an asshole yeah but he's gonna give you a couple weeks of work a year you'll need to tie stuff together yeah and there's several dudes across the country that i've been like nope fuck this guy yeah he needs to know how i feel about him i i don't you know i'm not that vengeful and i don't

necessarily have a list but i certainly know and you know i'm not like a you know i don't sell thousands of tickets either but i i do know the people that didn't help me you know more than anything else or fuck me yeah there's a couple people that i won't go out of my way but if i do become that draw that when they if they ever approach me i will enjoy saying no to them well yeah well i had one thing like that where you know i couldn't work at a club for a long time for some i didn't even know the reason why the guy you know had it out for me but you know he you know and it's a great club and uh i just had to accept that it wasn't going to happen for me anymore and i like the club and i didn't work there for over a decade and he apologized to me you know in montreal you know he came up to me and was like, look, man, I'm sorry.

You're a great act. I want to have you back. He literally, very graciously, apologized for icing me for so long. I went back and I sold out five shows and I killed and I loved working there and it was great. Well, sometimes it's beyond your control.

Sometimes a waitress likes you and the owner likes that waitress. Yeah, it usually comes down to a waitress likes you and the owner likes that waitress yeah it usually comes down to a waitress problem yeah it's it's definitely about pussy i would say 80 percent of the time money man that's it even in this business yeah it's all in everything yeah pussy and money it's like that girl wants to fuck me you're like yeah that's terrible yeah because i know i should be excited yeah but he wants to fuck me. You're like, yeah, that's terrible. Yeah. Because I know I should be excited. Yeah. But he wants to fuck her, so now I can't come back to Des Moines.

Because she talked to you. Yeah. You're not allowed in the state anymore. Yes. Yeah. I can't do comedy in Chicago. All right, man. Well, I think we did it.

Yeah. You? Yeah. I guess so. This is fun. Thanks for talking. Thanks for having me. That's it.

That's our show, folks. Thank you for listening. Go to WPFpod.com. Pick up the app if you're new to the show. You can always get the most recent 50. That's six months worth for free on iTunes or on my site, or you can get the app. Enjoy.

Get some JustCoffffee.coop. Leave a comment. Do what you got to do. I appreciate it. I'm full of panic. It's been an aggravating day. I don't like the idea that there's some guy out there as me

spending money that isn't his based on my credit. Fucking monster. What the fuck is wrong with people? Career criminals, man. They're always one step ahead. They're always figuring out the angles. But I guess this is a problem a lot of people have.

But why me? Why? It wasn't about you. Don't make it about you. You were not targeted. I don't think. Huh. Maybe.

Maybe this guy's like, I deserve Mark Maron's credit. Him and I are a lot alike. He stole my essence. I don't know. Fuck. Boomer lives! It's winter, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats.

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