WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 506 - Billy Gibbons

Episode Date: June 15, 2014

ZZ Top founder Billy Gibbons details the journey of a band that has been together for nearly 45 years, with beards and without. Billy tells Marc what he learned opening for Jimi Hendrix, how he made a guitar out of Muddy Waters's house, and what he thought of ZZ Top's huge commecial success in the 1980s. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Calgary's visionaries are turning heads around the globe, across all sectors, each and every day. Calgary's on the right path forward. Take a closer look how at calgaryeconomicdevelopment.com. Lock the gates! all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fucking here is what the fuck sticks what the fuck guys what's going on how's it going where are we at what is that what is that? What is that? Wait, what do I hear? Holy shit. What is that? That sounds fucking great. Wait, is that old ZZ Top? I think it is. ZZ Top, Billy Gibbons on the show today. Some of you might be like, really, ZZ Top? Well,

you know who you are you grew up too fucking late man I'm talking pre-beard shit folks I'm talking the first four five six even seven records I couldn't be more excited I'm gonna set something up and I don't usually do it but Billy sat in here after we talked with a cigar box resonator guitar and played a Ry Cooter interpretation of a traditional song, Billy the Kid, that I couldn't fucking believe it was happening. I told Jack White about it. Yeah, I'm dropping names left and right today, I guess. By the way, I'm Mark Maron. This is WTF. I'm sorry. Obviously, I got beside myself, got a little excited. I mean, come on, man.

beside myself got a little excited i mean come on man they got i got a big place in my heart for this easy top and i get to talk to billy gibbons i'm going to share it with you so i run into jack white i brought this up in the pre-show ad and uh you know he recognized me and you know it was kind of a big deal to me was that ridiculous he's you know jack's great and i told him i talked to billy i told him about this song that that Billy plays at the end of this. I so want to get Jack that song. I think Billy Gibbons should do a whole fucking album like that, man. I don't know what we got to do. I don't know what we got to do to get him to do it.

But I do want to tell you that ZZ Top is now touring Europe, and they're going to be back in the States next month. You can go to ZZTop.com for the full tour brochure. What's going on, man? I was just in Chicago, and I got to say, despite all my panic and attempts at destroying my confidence alone, I had a great show, man. And I want to thank everybody that came out to the Anthonaeum. Is that how you pronounce it?

That theater? Sold it out. Me and Adam Burke. Me and Adam Burke. Me and Adam Burke laid one out. Did a nice hour and a half show. He did like 20. Nice two hour package. Pow.

Look out. Just shit my pants. Just coffee.coop. That's a classic plug from Mark Maron. Who was sitting right here talking about himself in the third person. So okay look. Here's what happened. So I go to Chicago. Now, you know, some of you were with me throughout the process of building the hour, you know, and I was not that confident about it. But the thing about me is I don't seem to realize that I've spent more than half my life on stage

and that what really needs to happen is I just need to show up and be present and be open and be, you know, ready to engage and be me on stage and see what happens. I'd rather that happen. I'd rather have no material at all. I'd rather just make something happen out of thin air. That's never happened before. But when I play a big theater and we sold that thing out, man, like nine hundred and fifty seats in Chicago. So I was like, wow, we sold out. And then there's that part of me. It's like, do you even deserve to sell out? And then I'm sort of like, you know, shut up, dude. And then he's like, no, seriously. I mean, do you really think you've got the juice for this?

And then I go through this whole weird sort of deconstruction process of who I am and what I do. And I'm tired of it. Jesus fucking Christ, man. I'm 50 years old. I've been doing this most of my life. Why does that got to be my process why does my process have to be I don't know if I can do this and I ended up at Eataly I'm just sitting there like I'm fucked I'm fucked there how am I gonna you know I'm gonna disappoint 950

people and I'm just like I'm just I've decided that I'm no good I'm not funny I got no right and I'm just looking at some guy looking at pastry. He's just looking at it. He's just looking in the case. He's bent over and there's this look on his face. And he's just having this weird, it's not even weird. It was pure. It was beautiful.

He's just having this, you know, this longing relationship with one of the pastries in the case. And I just, I was so, it was so pure. I was like, it's just pure desire. It's just that guy looking at what he wants to put in his mouth. There's nothing dirty about it. There's, it's primal, you know, that's not fetishized. So I noticed that. And then a woman walks up and she starts looking in the case and now they're both looking at pastries with just the honest, pure desire of wanting a pastry and making a decision and then i start looking at the woman's ass and i realize like that's not a lot different the feeling i'm feeling these are pure human

feelings i'm looking at her ass and they're looking at pastries yeah i think that pastries are a little pure because you don't you know you're not thinking about putting the pastries elsewhere or whatever but i just started to tap into these kind of primal desires like look i'm just this is passive yeah i'm not you know i'm not like i gotta meet her or nothing it's just like it's what my brain does and sort of i locked into that and i realized like this is what people do man they want to eat and they want to fuck and they don't want to die and for some reason i thought that was a great grounding realization and uh and I felt better about everything and then I I somehow pulled it together I I brought I was just looking for some

reason some reason something to hang my failure on then this kid Liam Cunningham he's a friend of the guy who booked the thing and um and he and he they he was um driving me around. That was his gig, was driving me around. And he plays guitar with Jeff Tweedy sometimes on the road and stuff. And he's a sweet guy, and we get to the, he drives me to the theater, and there's two guitars in there. He's a guitar player.

There's a little record player there, and he's like, yeah, they told me that you wanted to, you like playing guitar, and I'm like, holy shit, this is the best. So I just sat in my dressing room in this old theater jamming some blues listening to him play some ragtime guitar relaxed before i went on stage all i was thinking was dude you just got to be present just because it's a big room doesn't mean you have to be as big as the room the only difference between a big room and a small room is the size of the room make the room come to you make the room come to you just be present riff it out bro

riff it out just go through your day talk about where you're at and nail that shit that's what you do you make it you make it happen in that moment that's the moment that's the moment you're looking for hey this is never going to happen again it's coming out of my mouth make that happen so i wrangled all my powers i was driven by the blues thank you liam for those guitars god damn it that helped out and and we went out there and did it man we did it i gotta tell you man i'm tired of that cycle there's got to be another way there's got to be another way for me to you know to to prepare and just be hey, how about let's go out there and kill and have a good time. How about that? How about that?

Why don't you try that one? All right. Let's talk to Billy Gibbons, man. You can get anything you need with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So, no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs and mozzarella balls. Yes, we can deliver that.

Uber Eats. Get almost almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th

at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton. The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5 p.m. in Rock City at torontorock.com. Buddha. buddha billy gibbons i learned how to play guitar from you awesome yeah i mean i didn't realize until recently because i've been playing a lot because my uh you know i'm out of a relationship and i find that's when you're supposed to pick up the guitar and feel what's necessary to feel.

Yeah. But where did you get it? Well, the BFG story, Billy F. Gibbons picked up a guitar on Christmas Day. I'd turned 13, December 16. Yeah. No guitar. Right. Nine days later, under the tree, there it is.

What kind? Gibson Melody Maker with a Fender Champ amp. That's the amp. And that's the way to go. Yeah. And it's been downhill ever since. So what were you listening to, though? What was moving you?

I mean, you come from a musical family. How did you get going? Yeah. My dear dad was an entertainer. He was a keyboardist. He did all kinds of things. He came from an interesting background. Five brothers.

Their dad, my granddad, was a glove maker from England. Okay. And they came over in 1906. Yeah. And my dad was the youngest. And one day I said, how did this entertainment thing get started? And he said, well, me and my brothers went down for lunch at the Glove Factory, and when we left we said, we need to think of something quick.

We ain't doing this. They all learned how to play instruments and they started the gibbons brothers band what was it big band well they started off as the jazzy five right and that was kind of a swing and ragtime group which and what'd your dad play piano yeah uh-huh yeah so they were the jazzy five and then they later got uh tuxedoed out and became legit they want they were so good they wound up uh landing a lot of the contracts up there at Lake George, Saratoga Springs, all those gangster hideouts. Sure. Just doing dance music?

Yeah. Like swing-ish? Pretty much. And then the legit stuff of the day. Right. Kind of a cover band. Yeah. Yeah.

They wrote stuff um and there was another glove maker in gloversville that was upstate new york they were gloversville they make gloves this was in new york this was happening yeah well how did you end up in texas well there was a guy out of manhattan and this was this was pre warren harding act when they broke up the monopolies. If you had a Warner picture, you showed it in a Warner theater. Right. You had a Lowe's picture, it had to be in a Lowe's house.

Okay. And this guy in New York, Will Horowitz, was dispatched down to Houston to build some Lowe's theaters. And he had a daughter, and back in those days, those were the 20s. some lowes theaters and he had a daughter and back in those days those are 20s yeah and at that time if you wanted a classic uh summer holiday yeah went up niagara falls and yeah all that cat skill out of rondack stuff and uh she fell for my dad so they got married had a little baby girl, and one day a guy came and said, my dad was Frederick Gibbons. And he said, Freddie, we're going to California. We've got a new business starting. This was Samuel Goldfish, glove maker.

He later changed his name to Samuel Goldwin. Oh, really? He was a glove maker. And they went to California. The fact the house I live in, that was my dad's pad. This is interesting because Iris Horowitz later, Iris Gibbons, my dad's first wife and their daughter, she fell victim to some strange malady and when the handwriting was on the wall her days were numbered she wanted to go back to texas she wanted to go houston be with her dad uh-huh my dad said fine uh he was at mgm doing what music director really there was a bunch of

them for pictures yeah i said pictures because that's what they were called then the pictures yeah in fact his second cousin or was cedric gibbons the great art director married to dolores del rio and so you come from a show business family in a way yeah yeah and i found i one when i braved the question how did my dad get into this entertainment game he finally let the cat out of the bag. He was a little skeptical because he knew I was leaning toward this rock thing. Yeah. And he was more legit. Right.

At this time. Yeah. But Iris passed away. Well, they left California in about 43 or 44. Mm-hmm. And then she passed away. But by this time, my dad was ensconced in Houston.

Right. And fortunately, he met my mother. So there it is. And she's from Texas. Ireland. Really? English dad, Irish mother.

The war is going on right here. Right down below. That's where the blues come from. The war is going on right here. Right down below. That's where the blues come from. The fire is- Celtic blues. Yeah. Yeah. She was Irish with an Irish accent even?

Lorraine Dauphineau. She was not quite the brogue. Had kind of- Right. I don't know if it was ever there, but nonetheless, it was good. Redheaded, mean Irish mother. Uh-huh. And your half-sister was living in the old house out here?

Yes. Okay. She said, hey, you want a house in Hollywood? And I said, oh, I thought she was joking. Yeah, and you took it. So I said, okay, well, your sister doesn't want it, and my kids don't want it. I said, well, what are you talking about? Because my mom had this strict edict.

She said, now look, the first chapter is now closed. We're starting chapter two. Don't even talk to them. Yeah. But the half sister, she started peeling the onion. And then my mother softened up and she said, okay, here's the whole story. Well, it's interesting. So you're in that house that was part of your dad's life in another life.

And I was always sort of hung up on this idea that you have some sort of, you believe in the magic of the past. Do you? I mean, didn't you make a guitar at a Muddy Waters house? Exactly. Yeah. See, when I heard about that and that was the guitar it was like was it a rectangle with the with the delta river with the mississippi on it yes but was when you made that guitar did you count on there being some magic in it we knew that there

would be we we made it i had a buddy tony fortune yeah who who was acting as a sales agent for his family's company. They were the distribution agent for Taylor Frozen Drink Machines. Okay. And he was dispatched to go from Memphis all the way down through Mississippi. He called me up and he said, when you guys are in the studio, generally the Saturdays, Sundays are, you know, let's get our batteries recharged. He said, I was coming back into Memphis and I was going through Clarksdale, Mississippi, and I saw a little tiny sign that said Blues Museum. He said, do you know anything about it? I said, no, maybe we should go.

So sure enough, we drove from Memphis down to Clarksdale. And we almost ran out of luck. But the last question, do you know? Oh, Blues Museum. That's part of the city library. So no one knew where it was. One guy. Right.

And he ran a gas station. He was a blues fan. Right. And he thought that this was kind of novel because the blues was, I wouldn't say, enjoying the popular status that we know now. Yeah. So we went in. Does it ever? I mean, it's been a long time since the – I mean, you guys had to reinvent the blues for it to gain popularity, I think.

Yeah, it comes and goes. Right. And every so often, the blues. it to gain popularity i think yeah it comes and goes right you know and every so often the blues all right right uh we met sid graves who was the curator that was his uh kind of his baby yeah hobby thing jim o'neill who was the founder of living blues magazine was also present now what what what'd they have in this place? How big was it? It was one room upstairs, and it was actually very, it was a,

you could feel the dedication that had surrounded the establishment. But they were there talking about their concern. The house that Muddy Waters grew up in. McKinley Morgan Field. Was on Stovall. Well, back then it was Stovall Plantation. They've changed the name.

And it had been struck by a high wind, and the highway department was threatening to tear it down as a safety hazard or something. So here was Sid Graves, and they said, you want to go? Let's go check. I said, heck, yeah. So I jumped in the car, drove down the way, and we were walking around under the trees, and there was this cabin. And off to the side was this pile of refuse

where the roof had kind of fallen in. Okay. We said, okay, great. And both Sid and Jim said, well, here, don't you want a souvenir? You've got to take something from Muddy Waters' house. Right. And here was this roof timber, which we loaded in the trunk of the car. And on the way back to Memphis, we said, well, what are you going to do with this?

He said, wow. I said, we could saw it into planks, glue it together, and cut up a guitar and make something out of it. Yeah. What's your guitar made of? Muddy Waters House. Okay. So you did it. We donated it.

Rick Rayburn from Pyramid Guitars there in Memphis was actually the fabricator. And not only did it play good, it sounded great. And it was a real tough call to let it go, but we thought, gee, what a offering. Where is it now?

It's in the Delta Blues Museum. It's right there. It's in that little place. In Clarksdale. Did you play that thing on anything? We did. We played it on, I think we played that on Deguayo, which was 1980.

It was our first record for Warner Brothers. I just listened to that record yesterday. I've been listening. I had the first five albums all my life, it feels like. And I hadn't listened to Deguayo in a while. And that's a great fucking record. I like it. I mean, why did it take you so long to record Dust My B did you ever like consider that i mean you've been playing blues for your

whole life well it was so predictable in our opinion right we just kind of overlooked that stuff but you found a different groove in it oh yeah yeah when it finally happened and of course you mentioned terry manning the engineer john fry the, the owner of Ardent, Joe Hardy, and John Hampton. Those were the four key players that made Memphis our second home. And that's where you recorded Deguayo? Yes. Well, we recorded everything from Tres Hombres onward. There?

Everything from Trace Ombrice onward. There? Up until about 1996. Rhythmine was the first. We built a mirror image studio in Houston. Okay. So we knew we had a place in Memphis. Now we had a fallback in Houston.

Yeah. And they... That's where you did Rhythmine, in Houston? Yeah. In the replica studio? Started there. And that was sort of the return to the original sound. Yes. That was an intentional transition out of the, what, three or four record period of spinning guitars and beards and syncopated drumming.

Oh, yeah. All of the... We had the opportunity to do just that, return to a more earthy and kind of early style. Dirty. But it was Terry Manning and Hardy and the whole Ardent team. Yeah. We woke up and said,

you know, we've never... We were not necessarily a purist blues band by any stretch. We were more of realists, I guess, interpreters. Well, the weird thing to me, like you, from the very first album, you know, found this very unique groove to the blues that was really your own. unique groove to the blues that was really your own. I mean, you sort of figured out some weird, that drive that comes a little from John Lee Hooker, but some other groove that you're not afraid of staying on a chord for a while. Indeed.

But like, it's so, you reinvented the fucking music and redefined it, I think think from the very beginning and that just happened naturally well dusty hill the bass player in zz top frank beard yeah yeah our percussionist sure the man with no beard yeah they uh grew up listening to about the same kind of stuff that i was into which who was it well it was uh of course the famous uh station from across the border of mexico area yeah xerf and you wrote a song yeah heard it on the x yeah uh but those uh late night sessions you know you're sitting there with the transistor radio under the pillow and you're hearing all of that great, great blues stuff.

We, of course, we followed the Rolling Stones intimately. And I think it would be fair to say that the British guys who wound up taking all the unwanted blues records kind of salvaged it. This was a rapidly evaporating art form. Right. Thanks to the onslaught of what came out of the UK, it was returning. Right. And then, of course, Eric Clapton came along and tore it up, followed with Peter Green. Peter Green's the guy, right?

Oh, yeah. Mick Taylor. So many guys. Mick Abrams. But you were listening to them and the old stuff? Yeah. The source material? Because a lot of those guys, I mean, like the Stones blues was a little hopped up and kind of pure.

But then Peter Green, I don't know where that guy came from. I don't know where his sound comes from. I mean, it is some of the saddest shit i've ever heard in my life yeah he he he the expressiveness that uh emanated from not only his guitar playing but his singing oh i know man which is the tough part of it. Man of the world? Oh, yeah. What? And I recently appeared in Hawaii with Willie Kay on guitar. Mick Fleetwood was on drums. What a drummer, man. Oh.

And, you know, getting up on stage was the easy part. Yeah. The hard part was curtailing the hours upon hours of stories of back then. Peter Green, to this day, Mick Fleetwood considers him leader of the charge. So be it.

I listen to it daily. So what was the first band? Yours. The Saints. We were 13. this was about six months of you know wood shedding in the bedroom yeah and uh although christmas day by the end of the uh right before midnight i was stuck on that thing and i learned the jimmy reed chords yeah that little you know turnaround boogie yeah and the opening four notes uh to ray charles what'd i say right it's all you need right and that's it that started and then you get your pentatonic scales waiter and you're done you're

done so the saints so you were in junior high. Yeah, three guitars and drums. Three guitars, no bass. No. Just guitars. Yeah. Whoever played. David Croswell on one guitar, myself,

Philip Taft on guitar, and Steve Mickley holding down the percussion end of things. Any of those guys stick with it? Yeah, well, we still stay in touch. They've gone on to different things, but they woodshed all the time. We have threatened to get it back together. The Saints? The trouble is our first paying gig was in Mickley's yard playing for a car wash, being washed in the driveway. Right, yeah.

wash being washed in the driveway yeah people go to the you know they pay and you know they drive through the automatic wash these days but we're threatening uh-huh yeah maybe you know that was part of the pitch you got live blues music and you get your car wash yes in fact here we are in the garage i know we could go to the front there's room no not much room this is where men work. Yeah, okay. In the garage. So what was the first real band? Well, I consider the Saints, having latched on to that distinction, the second paying gig was for a high school drinking club called Hoffa Hiranka. And it was founded by the seniors of the high school. We were still, I was still in junior high. And Hoffa High Ronca was one of the members,

his dad was a beer distributor. One of the beers was Hoffman's. And so Hoffa, you get high and r beers was hoffman's right and so hoffa for you get high and ronked on hoffman's beer so hoffa high rocket we played the party and of course it got raided and i remember scampering over the fence with guitar over his shoulder and trying to carry that champ fender champ yeah i said this is for me yeah this is okay yeah you're melody maker and your champ yep and what were you guys playing blues all kinds of stuff you know it's rock and roll the rock and roll yeah yeah so when did you lock into uh to you know to a a real sort of uh

concert outfit uh from the saints we started a uh little high school band. We called it The Coachmen, and it was proper with Mike Frazier on bass. We had a nice four-piece outfit. And then the 13th floor elevators sprang onto the scene. In about 66, they had a big record that broke out nationally called You're Gonna Miss Me. Right. And they turned it upside down. Is that what, that's Rocky Erickson? Yeah.

Yeah. His voice was freak out. Just maniacal. Yeah. And Tommy Hall with these cerebral lyrics and the playing the jug. Those records, they too still hold water we listen to those every day now do you are are you friends with rocky yeah yeah play on occasion i'll don't take the deck with him he uh recently uh uh asked me to come up and uh whether he recalls

that we were friends in 67 yeah Yeah. It's not clear. I'm not sure. He might have lost a whole year or two. Yes. Yeah. Our dear girl friend in Austin, who's kind of a mover and shaker about town, she said, yeah, that was really a good performance you delivered with Rocky. I overheard him mention to one of the band members, he said,

yeah, Billy is pretty good. Maybe you think we can get him in the band? So I don't know. Maybe there's a chance. So that inspired you? Yes. We changed the name to the Moving Sidewalks. From the Coachmen.

Yes. The 13th floor elevators were such an influence and we followed them diligently and everything was breaking open psychedelic music was happening yeah our first uh recorded work was a track called 99th floor so you can see the interplay now were you guys uh tripping and stuff i believe yeah i'm pretty sure yeah yeah yeah if there was a way to remember all of that yeah oh yeah it's not clear man and you guys did a record we did uh it was called flash by the moving sidewalks but just recently uh been reissued as a very handsome box set got a nice 50 page booklet to go along with

it how many tracks did you do uh well it's a two disc set they they dredged up things that i had forgotten about it was so well uh uh orchestrated in fact finding all of this i gotta hear it man can you hear yourself in there yeah do you can you identify the the what became your guitar style within that yes uh there's one track called joe blues okay see the moving sidewalks were hired to travel with jimmy hendrix out of the clear blue and this is your band yes and you're who hired you? Out of Texas? 1968. We were working out of Houston. Yeah.

And the Jimi Hendrix Experience had launched this U.S. jaunt. And you knew his stuff? Oh, yeah. We had gotten that first Tar You Experience. I read about it somewhere, and I said, wow, this sounds interesting. And once you heard it, there was no turning back. That was all blues, too, though, man. He was straight-up blues.

Yeah. Right? He did the psychedelic Turn It Inside Out. Right. But he never left. He always had one foot in the blues. Right. Buddy Guy. Yeah.

And just did it right. He was doing things with the fender strider caster guitar that i'm fairly certain the designers had no inkling of this being possible no one no one can understand how the hell he did it but there was a group called the soft machine yeah that was they were traveling on the bill that was john wyatt's group another trio uh-huh and i got to be uh fairly tight with jimmy hendrix and you're both what were you about the same age i mean he was like what 25 he was uh 24 yeah i think i was 18 19 18 68 were you guys trading licks oh yeah he made arrangements chas chandler yeah who was the bass player for Eric Burden's group, The Animals.

Yep. And Chaz had put the bass guitar aside to become Jimi Hendrix's manager. Mm-hmm. And it was an interesting excursion because at that time there was some concern over uh which hotel to select that would let mixed oh right come in yeah and uh it was always arranged where jimmy and i had opposing hotel rooms on either side of the hall at the very end of the hallway right and i found out later why each afternoon there were a couple guys that would bring in this piece of furniture called a record player and this was not a little handled

suitcase this was the console the console the whole unit big piece of furniture and yeah he said yeah come on over man check this out well he was studying the work of jeff beck the first jeff beck group really rod stewart on vocals and jeff on guitar he was studying the work of jeff beck the first jeff beck group really rod stewart on vocals and jeff on guitar what do you think how do you think he's doing this which completely blew my mind really and i've talked to jeff he sits in disbelief when i tell him yes jimmy hendrix was studying every jeff beck lick because he went out there too like he he pushed it. So like, and Jimmy's a guy that pushes it.

So if there's a noise that's coming out of a guitar that he can't figure out, he's going to be like, oh man. Yeah. What is he doing? And you sat there and tried to work that shit out with him? Yes. And of course,

Jimmy's interpretation took it to another level. Oh, really? Jeff was already on Mars. And then Jimmy said, yeah, let's go out there to meet him. I said, okay, we'll go out there. And what were you doing when you were playing and he was playing and you would just sit there and try to work it out? and you would just sit there and try to work it out? Yeah.

One of the endearing exchanges was the fact I was attempting to study everything Jimi Hendrix was doing. Right. As he was listening to Jeff Beck, I was listening to Jimi Hendrix. Right. Are you experienced? And you're just sitting there watching him play. Oh, yeah. He'd say, well, do you know this? And I'd go, well, not yet.

Come on. What was he, just trading licks? I mean, what were they? Trading licks. And Jimi Hendrix, the Fender Stratocaster was his weapon of choice. Right. And you're a Gibson guy. Well, at the time, I was chasing with the Stratocaster.

Oh, you were. Okay. And the Stratocaster has three pickups. Right. And there is a little toggle switch with three settings. Right. Front pickup all the way front. Middle pickup in the middle.

That's searing lead pickup. Well, Hendrix discovered that if you gingerly moved the toggle switch between back and middle. There was this weird in between. It's a poppy. They make a five position switch now. Yeah. I love that sound. That's what Stevie Ray took. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. But they didn't have the five way switch then. He invented it. Well, he discovered it. And then, of course, later they said, well, this is too good. We need to make this. It was not designed. It was a mistake.

It was just an anomaly within that little contraption. It was spring loaded. And early on, you had to be very careful to get it at the sweet spot. Right. But sometimes if you jumped around too much, the spring would pop it out of place. So then Hendrix took it apart, removed the spring so it would rest easy and not run the rhythm. So he was a guy, he got into the mechanics of it. He was an inventor.

Yeah. It was just like this, yeah. What kind of guy was he? Cool cat. Nice. Cool cat, yeah. Just all about guitar? Very much so.

Yeah. Dedicated. Yeah. Just all about guitar? Very much so. Yeah. Dedicated. I don't know if there could be three guys that melted into this aggregation any more stridently. They were all, Noel Redding, he was actually a guitarist that went to bass.

Right. But his guitar playing skills made him a wonderful compliment on the low end. Right. And Mitch Mitchell is underrated as a out-and-out jazzer. Yeah, he's a jazz guy. He just flourishes.

Yeah. So what'd you pick up from Jimmy? Where'd you start popping those strings? Oh. We actually had the nerve. This is when you're 18 and you don't have any sense. We did a couple of Jimi Hendrix numbers opening the show.

And he thought that was the funniest thing. He said, man, you're doing my stuff all right. I like it. It was crazy. Do you remember anything specific that you learned from him? remember anything specific that you know you you kind of you know learn from him there's one interesting tale yeah from the time we were together uh we started off in texas and then we went west that's where the bookings were right i think it might have been in phoenix and uh we were we were in the venue kind of stuck stuck, and we couldn't leave.

There was no place to go, and there was time to kill. And there was an Englishman that was helping out. He functioned as the truck driver and the roadie and whatever. So the soft machine had a part of their thing. They would erect a rail, a trough above the stage and behind. And it was filled with fluorescent liquid. And they would let it drip with black light. So it was raining blue. Glowing blue.

Glowing blue as they played. And it would splash on the deck. And, you know, it was messy. Who knew what was in it? I mean, it's horrible for you. So this fateful night, Jimmy sent Nigel out where he found some, he went out and got these large Bahamian sponges. And we secured them to the end of the guitar neck with big rubber bands. I said, now what are we doing?

And he also sent out for some giant sheets of paper. Also sent out for some giant sheets of paper. He found a billboard supply company that had giant pieces of white that were going to become billboards. Right. And we hung them from the back. And he had gallon jugs of fluorescent paint also gotten from this billboard shop. So he turned up the Marshallall lamps i turned up mine and the feedback was just and we dunked the end of the guitar and started splashing fluorescent paint jobs a painting yeah yeah you know they had evacuated the office oh so it was

after the show yeah we were just hanging out. And this is what he would dream this kind of stuff up. That's why I was crazy. So how did you evolve out of what was a trend in music into just going back to the straight-up shit? You know, when ZZ Top formed. Well, the sidewalks were... We moved to California. And then shortly thereafter, we were playing a couple of the joints on the strip. Yeah.

There was, well, the two famous ones, Gazzeri's. Yeah. Which lasted the longest. And then next door was the Galaxy. Uh-huh. Pandora's Box. So this is like, what, 67? 68 into 69. So this is like, what, 67? 68 into 69. So this is crazy here.

It's like everything's blown open. Insane. Yeah. Sunset Boulevard on the north side of the street was, it's two lanes going east, two lanes coming back west. East, two lanes coming back West. The curbside lane was no longer trafficable by vehicles. People were spilling off the sidewalk in that first lane.

Just freak show. Just, I mean, wall-to-wall people. Guys with T-shirts with a menu of acid, five bucks, weed. Yeah, yeah. It was just, you know. Yeah. Every other block. Yeah. And the local authorities were, they were, some of them were amused with it.

It was like. Well, they were probably just happy. Let's just keep it contained. If we keep it within that one mile radius. Yeah. Let them have it. One lane, one mile. Right.

Yeah. But those were some crazy days but uh the keyboardist and the bassist for the moving sidewalks were uh uh called into uh uh the military oh really and it left me and the drummer uh of going, well, we still want to do this. These guys will be out for a couple of years. Did they make it back? They did, fortunately. So the drummer and I kept it going, and we actually worked as a two-piece drum and bass

for a short time. Then we got a bass player, and then things started to morph. The drummer twisted off, and then the bass player that we had hired, he was a guy from Dallas, Billy Etheridge, and he said, wow, he said, I know a drummer who turned out to be Frank Beard.

Billy Etheridge was more interested. He was focused on, he liked the Hammond B-3. He wanted to get away from the base and go to Oregon. So he said, I'm going to step down. But Frank knows a guy that turned out to be none other than Dusty Hill. Little did I know that Frank Beard and Dusty Hill had worked together since they were 14. So I inherited this strident rhythm section. Yeah.

Tight. Yeah. And I just walked on. It was a diving board. I said, okay, fine, let's go. And they were all about the blues. They were. And it was shortly there.

The first day, it was in an afternoon, and we were going to try it to see if it was going to work. Where did you do that? We were back in Texas in Houston, and we were going to do a little 30-minute set. Yeah. Well, we started down on a shuffle, a blues shuffle in C. Three hours later, we finally pulled it to the curb. I said, I think this is going to work. So there's an interesting history of, you know, that is the cornerstone.

We've tried not to get too far from it. Well, was it a relief, though? Because, like, I imagine at that time in the mid-60s and hanging out with Jimmy and dealing with the soft machine and seeing where music was going to sort of get back to a shuffle and just fucking open that thing up. It must have been sort of a relief and it must have appeared different than what was going on elsewhere. There was a great book by Paul Oliver called The Story of the Blues. Yeah. Still available. Paul Oliver called The Story of the Blues.

Yeah. Still available. It's considered to be the most, the illumination that he brought forth going back to menstrual days, the 20s. Right. Carrying it on right up until that time. That was, you know, late 60s. Yeah. And we learned so much.

There was Paul Oliver's works. Another Englishman, Tony Russell, was doing some great books. Documenting. So you guys would read about it, and then you'd go get the records? Yeah. So which records were the ones that you were like, that's the driveshaft right there? Well, the benchmark, we still consider Jimmy Reed. There's not a day that

starts off without playing a jimmy reed number the best it's so uh uh yeah people say oh that jimmy reed stuff that's that that's that easy stuff until you start understanding the complexity between jimmy reed yeah the second guitarist eddie taylor yeah and the drummer. It's all wrong, and it works. And try to figure that out. Was it him that had a problem with his eyesight or something? That his wife used to have to transcribe shit? Or am I making that up? No.

Mama Reed, as they called her, was always at his side. Yeah. Always at his side. Yeah. And although certain interviews would argue that that never happened, that she was present. But clearly, there are examples of recordings where you can hear her whispering the words. Right. As it's coming up to the next line.

Uh-huh. She'd give him a hint so let's go through like let's go through uh i don't usually do this but i want to go through the records can we do it yeah oh yeah all right so the first album how was that received zz tops first album it's out of the out of the gate night what is 71 72 70 1970 and we started uh in the latter part of 69. Yeah. And then went up to make the first, it was called ZZ Top's first album. Yep. Very inventive. Yeah.

And that was our first crack out of the box. Yeah. How was it received? We had a nice little number called Somebody Else Been Shaking Your Tree. Right, yep. Which gained some popularity over the airwaves. And Backdoor Love Affair, you did live on, what was it, the B-side of, was it Tejas or Fandango? Fandango, yeah.

Right? Yeah, sure enough. So you brought that one back around. so he brought that one back around and my dear buddy from again from houston who had relocated to memphis he called me up long distance and held the phone up to the record player and he was playing uh a peter green number the early fleetwood man which Which one? Which number? It was off their first record, and it was one of their slower numbers. Okay. Which inspired the track that ZZ Top chose to interpret entitled Just Got Back From Babies. Uh-huh.

Which was our first real 6-8 slow blues number babies uh-huh which was our first real six eight slow blues number uh-huh and the the good i think that that the first album is indicative of what uh was it was percolating all along right this blues thread yeah was was tying it all together right but now that i think about it like you know when you and the more you talk about uh about dusty and uh about frank beard like that that drive you know that where they just kind of pushed you out there and you could just like you didn't have to worry about anything i could close my eyes and i knew there was solid standing i didn't have to worry about a thing and then on the second record uh that you had a hit on that one didn't you what was that just got paid is on the second record right yes i'm real grande mud that's a great record

and that that got a little traction didn't it yeah by this time we had just started traveling uh out of state we were tripping over into louisiana mississippi and uh and thanks to Walter Baldwin living in Memphis he was pals with a guy up there Stedman Matthews and Stedman was kind of a mover and shaker and and he organized a a blues gathering at the Overton Park band show it was a little tiny version of the Hollywood Bowl, outdoor seating. Yeah. And he played, in fact, our first record had just been released. Walter got a copy.

I sent it up there. He played it for Stedman, and Stedman said, well, you know these guys. Let's put them on the blues show. Yeah. And there was, Furry Lewis was on the program. Johnny Wood, the famous harmonica player from Memphis.

Furry Lewis must have been 100. At that time, he was probably. Yeah. And Bobby Bland showed up. Wow. B.B. King was on the bill. So these were the heavyweight guys. Right. King was on the bill. So these were the heavyweight guys. And when we came to town,

we showed up a couple of days early and Stedman tripped over. We were staying at the Linden Lodge right off of Beale Street. And Stedman dropped over and Walter called me later he was rather humored he said well you've created panic I said what do you mean he said well I understand Stedman paid you a visit I said yeah very nice guy very we're really excited about this appearance he goes yeah but you're white he's put you on at the tail end so I was going okay after these legends. Yeah. And because when he heard the record, he never questioned it for a moment.

He said, oh yeah, great. Black Blues Group. Okay, fine, fine. But that evening, we really delivered a powerhouse set and all of the hotshot players around Memphis were in attendance and they waited around, waited around. And we got to meet really the lineup of great players. Guys I would know?

Well, there was Jim Dickinson, rest his soul, the great record producer, he had a band called Mudboy and the Neutrons. And they were all over the chart. They were doing crazy stuff. Lee Baker was one of the great guitar players. The young white Robert Johnson, he was on the scene. Who was that? He was from Memphis.

His name was Robert Johnson. Yeah. He johnson yeah yeah he had to play he had to play and it was actually robert that uh he was uh um he was well connected around town and uh he said you know there's a guy guy that you need to meet. And I had decided to stay in Memphis for a couple days to hang out with Walter and the rest of the gang. And it was Robert that introduced me to a guy, a rather eccentric character named Mike Ladd, who ran a shop called Mike Ladd's Guitar City. Uh-huh. shop called Mike Ladd's Guitar City. Uh-huh.

It was perched in a strip mall looking out of his door across Highway 51 staring at Elvis's house. Right. Perfect location. I know that strip mall. Elvis's Uncle Vernon used to sell a book in front, like it's right across from Graceland, right? Yeah. Well, at the time it was a Cleaners and a-

Right. But now it's all Elvis stuff. All Elvis. Right. They took it over later. But Mike Ladd is an enigmatic character in that he could be credited with having the foresight to understand what vintage guitars, before that word was even floating around, he knew the value of this magical spot when Gibson, Fender, and the great guitars were being made. Pre-CBS Fenders?

Yeah. Yeah. And those old Gibsons from the 50s? Oh, yeah. And that was the start of it. In fact, Mike Ladd has the distinction his father uh was one of the three founding members of holiday and hotel chain so he was so he was all right mike ladd was all right he was well healed and had a pocket full of change and uh all he wanted to do was hang out with

guitars and the guys that played them oh that's fun's fun. So, in fact, he and I went to the Gibson Guitar Factory in Kalamazoo, Michigan. This was 72. And by this time, Robert came back on the scene. He said, you know, you guys make really good music. You've got two records behind you. I think if you would give Memphis a shot, you could up the ante on making great sounding records. You make great sounding music,

let's make great sounding records. And so that's where you went for Tres Hombres? Yes. We had already recorded the tracks in Texas, but I was persuasive enough to give it a try. I've got the management to say, well, let's go check this out. What made the difference? I was insistent because Robert and Walter and so many of the musicians. But you already laid down the track, so you're bringing master tapes to Memphis? To mix.

Okay. They were still in a pretty raw form. But Led Zeppelin had just done Led Zeppelin III in Memphis. Right. And they had Terry Manning and Joe Hardy. The Memphis music scene was still quite robust. Stax was still going. Right. Isaac Hayes, of course, was still quite robust. Stax was still going. Right.

Isaac Hayes, of course, was leading the charge. And so many of the great Stax artists were still. Yeah. I had Booker T in here once. Yeah. For a couple hours. The guy. Yeah, he's the guy.

Yeah. And that first experience in Memphis led to the release of what we know as Tres Hombres, which had LaGrange. That was the big one. Waiting for the bus. Jesus just left Chicago. It was great. Is that the one that broke you? Yeah.

That did it. That was our first top ten. Was LaGrange? Yeah. Man. It sure enough was, man. And we didn't leave Memphis for the next 18 years. You lived there or you just recorded there?

Oh, you stayed there. Well, we started commuting and then later I said, you know, it's a long drive. Let's just move in. We moved in. I lived at the Peabody Hotel for a while. Sure. Watch those ducks every day? They're going to walk the ducks?

Yeah. Mr. Pembroke, going gonna walk the ducks yeah yeah mr pimbroke gonna walk the ducks so then you just go this so the so 75 so 73 tres hombres 75 fandango 1977 tejas i remember being excited when that came out because i was in high school and i was like holy shit here it is that's a good looking cover where was that food from and tres hombres uh leo's mexican restaurant in houston yeah they're unfortunately they closed their doors but while they were going i said i know where to get this picture statement let's get the perception right and uh tejas was a huge record too right big Yeah. It was odd in that there was one side that was all studio recordings.

Right. And the flip side was a live version that we did down in New Orleans. Really? Or was that Fandango? I thought the live one. Oh, I'm sorry. You're right. Right.

Yeah, Fandango. Fandango was, yeah. Because I remember we'd get in the car and we'd put that cassette in. We'd listen to that whole live side. Yeah. What you guys doing? Got my own, got my own, got my own. Like, I mean, we listened to that whole live side. Yeah. What you guys doing? Ga-ma-da-da-ga-ma-da-ga-ma-da.

Like, I mean, we drove to that shit. But then, like, Tejas was huge, too. I mean, It's Only Love is a great song. We still play it. Do you? Yeah. It's great. The funny thing about that particular track,

everybody talks about that, the very start of the track opens with frank doing a little drum figure uh it was rather simplistic but the sound was bombastic and it was by accident the microphone had fallen off the stand and the microphone head was leaning up against the bass drum head it was an accident and frank's frank's bass drum was beating that poor microphone to death but it was we couldn't figure out how he was doing it and later the engineer came oh we may have to do this again no no leave it so then after after tejas and after all those records, you guys are selling, you're doing stadiums, right? Yeah, it blew up. Yeah. It got big.

And that was, you know, the start of who could outdo the next guy's production. It was. It was. What started off as just, you know, playing and wanting to, you know, play the best you could. Then it became kind of this measure of theatrics and giant. But you stayed with Terry Manning and the other guys. Yeah. Joe Hardy, Terry, John Hampton, they were the core, they were the chief engineers.

Right. And they held sway over the, they were the chief engineers. Right. And they held sway over the... They were Studio A and Studio B. And John Fry kind of gave them free hand to keep the focus on just making great-sounding music. So you're saying that the competition was about the show? Or was it about... Well, when arena rock

or when that term finally hit the streets, it was definitely that. It was turning in. I mean, the popularity of live appearances were growing by leaps and bounds. And it was nothing to play a baseball stadium.

leaps and bounds and it was nothing to play a baseball stadium right you know and yeah everything was fine uh we we we did a show in 76 uh zz tops barn dance and barbecue uh joe cocker was on the bill santana showed up uh jim Jimmy Page came along with Bad Company. I mean, it was a pretty interesting, it was like 180,000 people shoehorned into University of Texas Stadium. Right. Is that what the photograph from Taha's is of? Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They were all pals that, you know, there was still a.

Great voice, that guy, Paul Rogers. Oh, yeah. Right. Great voice, that guy, Paul Rogers. Oh, yeah. Right? And there was still a real friendly exchange between bands. We're kind of mixing and matching.

Right. And you guys closed that thing? Yes. The heat index was ridiculous. Right. Coach Darrell Royal discovered that some rather zealous fan wanted to take a piece of Texas home and carved out of the AstroTurf a piece in the shape of the state of Texas. And that didn't sit too well. So that was the end of it. That's all it took? No more stadium shows there.

So, okay. So then you decide on the be, and you decide on, right? I mean, that was about after Deguayo, right? That was when the real show started. We worked up until the end of 76, which was, you know, bicentennial, and there was a lot of excitement. excitement uh-huh and we took a what was intended to be a three-month holiday uh kept extending and extending uh frank went down to jamaica uh dusty was hanging out in parts of mexico i was over in europe did everyone keep their shit together was there any like you know disasters did you almost lose anyone well we were on the phone uh just to keep the the connection uh-huh but we

we weren't sure what anybody was getting into right i'm sure there were some hard left turns on the way but then we woke up when we woke up and three years had gone by. No personal appearances, no trips to the studio. Now, the interesting telltale evidence is to be found on the pull-out sleeve of Deguayo. We finally got back together. Warner Brothers had stepped forward to hire us. And they lured us away from London Records on to Warner Brothers. Mm-hmm. And when we showed up,

the abject laziness was evident. The beards had started. Right. Even Frank was in the running. Right. He gave up the ghost. Dusty and I had the jump on him.

Right. So he said, look, I got the name. You guys take it right but uh we went in um resumed our residency there at ardent studios in memphis and i want to say the first track was uh what you pointed out earlier uh and folks mark Mark is very astute. He knew that this Dust My Broom track was long overdue. Right. And that was the opening track.

It was kind of a warm-up thing. Uh-huh. Nothing to really – Right. But it felt right. Familiar. Yeah. Yeah.

It was just something to get it going. Get your swag out. Yeah. Yeah. And I had the – I'd learned themore james upstroke technique he he did that it was all up oh really most of the time uh-huh and uh you know there's there's a long-running uh i don't know if it's a joke. It was actuality. That was, they said, yeah, Elmore keeps doing that same riff.

That's all he knew. Right. It was enough. It was enough. Sure. He said, yeah, you better enjoy it while you can, because when I'm gone, it's gone. Right. I mean, and Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac, I mean, Jeremy Spencer, that was it. Now, there's an exception.

Yeah. Because Jeremy Spencer could deliver. Right, right. He learned it. He learned it, and he was hung up on it. And could sing. Yeah, yeah. Those two guys, Peter Green and Jeremy Spencer.

So, Deguayo, that, okay, Dust My Broom, Chief Sunglasses, that was a huge hit. I thank you. That was a huge hit. So, the hits keep coming, man. But the production changes. Yeah. you that was a huge hit so the hits keep coming man but the production changes yeah um we well actually uh this was still in the day of the big uh the big who who's got more lights yeah who's got a bigger sound system right and that continued on uh we did uh oh gee all the way through. There was the Guayo, followed with El Loco. El Loco, yeah.

And then... Eliminator. Was the biggie, the wild card. Oh, wow. Yeah, oh, wow, that is a big one. Holy shit. Yeah, and I think it was not necessarily thought out or planned but the general consensus of what goes on at ardent studio even today yeah there's an openness and a willingness to experiment

and of course john fry was uh funding all of this uh newfangled stuff because he was curious. Technology. Yeah. Okay, right. He wanted to stay up with the, as technically, as recording the ways to record and the equipment to capture. Right. You get sold on the idea that technology is a good thing.

Yes. At that time, it was in full swing. Right. You get sold on the idea that technology is a good thing. Yes. At that time, it was in full swing. Right. Later, the pendulum swung back. Sure. So what was the technology? I mean, Frank was still drumming. Yes. And then Lyndon Hudson, he was a producer and engineer. He was actually living at Frank's house. Frank had an extra house on the house, and Lyndon was there. We built a small studio at Frank's house.

Okay. And Lyndon brought up the notion of good timing. Yeah. Good tuning and good timing. And that was such a simplistic notion, but everybody had kind of forgotten about it. So Frank went to start

wood shedding and we were playing specified tempos and we were playing with learning how to play with a click track so we didn't drift. Our habits had gotten so terrible. When you play on the road as much as ZZ Top played on the road, you start developing this weird muscle memory. You play the same song seven nights in a row. Well, you start off on Monday, and it's in proper tempo.

Right. By Sunday of the end of the week, you know it. And the only challenge left is, well, we know how to play it. We can play it, but let's play it faster. And by the end of six months, your three-minute song is over in about 40 seconds. It's punk rock by the time you're done. Oh, definitely. So that was really an interesting thing.

So this guy says, like, we've got to reel this in. You guys got to get your tuning right. You got to get the tempo steady. Yeah. And it was weird because I think people thought that it was somehow mechanized. But it wasn't. It was just you being diligent. Well, Terry Manning and the whole Joe Hardy squad, ironically, had the same advantage of figuring out how do we incorporate. Let's face it.

ZZ Top, they were not a. Well, at the time time we weren't really a techno band but these technological advancements were starting to make their way and we were experimenters we didn't know what we were doing necessarily but that was the good

measure was there was never a manual and you wanted people to dance you wanted to keep up with the pace of what people were into yes right uh and um over the airwaves right good sounding records with with proper timing right we're starting to become um the order of the hour right there was the discovery and you know good timing is nothing more than a factor of trustability right when it uh let's face it the guy on the dance floor his girlfriend drags him out there he doesn't want to be there yeah and the live drummer if he drops a beat the guide guide loses his balance, he falls on the floor, and he just doesn't dig it.

However, the rise of predictably on-time music eliminated that worry. Because that which is repeatable becomes trustable and us human condition like to be trusting something sure and nowhere to put your foot exactly yeah yeah one in front of the other not on the globe so all right so you do all those records and then uh like things sort of you know kind of you with afterburner recycler, antenna, you're still jamming. But at some point, what was it that made you go like, we got to get back to, we got to do, we got to do with the meme? The guy in the street kind of called our attention. He forced our hand, you know, the expert from out of town.

Sure. attention he forced our hand um you know the expert from out of town sure they thought that they had discovered that we were starting to become um too far away from those blues roots and it was a it was a loud voice yeah something to not be ignored uh-huh and we didn't really have a problem with it i like playing that bluesy kind of thing yeah so back in we get yeah it's great man and that in long for futuro is great how was that working with rick rubin well he's flying overhead yeah he's listening now he's tuning in he doesn't want anyone to say anything it was pretty stripped down though i just listened to it the other day but it's it's definitely solid was that an interesting experience working with him oh definitely now i

had known rick uh socially we had become pals back in uh 1980 uh-huh uh i believe it or not i went to a rave at knotsott's Berry Farm, of all places. You probably fit right in, right? Well, Rick was working on the Red Hot Chili Peppers project that was underway. Yeah. And my little gal friend was friends with Flea and his gal friend. And all of a sudden, there was this big gang load. Let's go to Knott's Berry Farm.

It starts at midnight, which was very uncharacteristic for Knott's Berry Farm to be having a rave. Sure. But we all went and became fast friends from that night forward. And Rick would periodically, he'd step forward and say, well, I know now's not the time, but don't think that I'm not watching. And sooner or later, hopefully, we'll be able to get in and cut it up pretty good. Well, he's like a curator of authenticity now. He wants to bare bones the shit. Yes, he is a realist.

Yeah. And an economist. realist yeah and an economist if he can get you to do more through less mm-hmm that that is a a I think it's one of his strong points mm-hmm come you compared you add that on to his remarkable sense of patience no hurry mm-hmm he said you know any any he can feel it and until he feels it you know one day we were in the studio and Dusty leaned over and he said hey you know Rick inside and out you You guys have been pals forever. We've been playing the same song for three hours.

Do you think you could ask Rick if we're getting somewhere? He was afraid to ask him? Yeah. And I said, okay, fine. I looked through the glass. I said, hey, Rick, are we getting anywhere with this? He goes, dude, you guys nailed it in the first 20 minutes. We just like watching you guys play.

So, you know, that's Rick. He is so. What did Dusty say after that? Well, he could only grin and go, you know. And what made it all work is not only does Rick appreciate music from a performance and recording standpoint, we like playing. So we didn't care. We said, okay, great. Are you happy to be back doing that sort of analog thing?

I mean, it came out on 45. It came out on 180-gram vinyl. I mean, did you know that was going to happen? Was that your choice? out on 180 gram vinyl i mean did you know that was going to happen was that your choice uh again rick's uh vigilance toward what uh is beyond trendy but uh what what what shows up of value he's not afraid to uh make that as an offering um whether or not we, it was not designed necessarily. We were just having a good time. And did he do that all on, did you guys record that on analog

or you just recorded it on regular? They were doing some of everything. Uh-huh. Sounds great. Yeah. He doesn't miss a lick. If it sounds good on analog, fine. If it sounds good through some digital digital magic machine

yeah yeah it all will go uh toward one thing what feels right and you're feeling good yeah you're having a good time oh it was yeah it was great we would would commute. It was a way to get me out of Hollywood out to Malibu. It was about an hour commute, but it was just enough to, you know, driving along PCH and kind of chilling out and just getting in a space that made a lot of sense. And how'd you get hooked up with Josh Homme on that tune on his last album?

Because he was thrilled to... He came over here and I interviewed him and I was playing ZZ Top when he walked in. Oh, awesome. And he was like, oh, Billy played on my song. And he said, you hit a harmonic with your beard. Yeah, that was true. Yeah, the beard was dangling over the strings a little

and I was bearing down. We were getting it. You know, he's not only a wonderful and talented individual, he has surrounded himself with remarkable players. Yeah. And they all hold dear that notion of doing it fiercely. Our first encounter, he was wanting to do a cover of an early ZZ Top song called Precious in Grace. And they were struggling with the middle break. And he tracked me down and he said, hey, man, we're over here in Burbank.

Can you come over? And I said, sure, man. What you got on me? He said, well, this Precious in Grace thing has us on the ropes. I said, you guys? I said, come on, man. the ropes i said you guys i said come on man and he said well but uh i knew we were destined to become uh long-standing buddies inside that studio was was an array of the strangest weirdest unheard of a gear yeah they're all gear heads man they they had the weirdest wildest stuff like what well

uh josh said you know we're just beginning to learn our heroes uh from the 50s the blues guys that we attempt to interpret uh-huh they didn't have money to buy the expensive Fender or Gibson guitars. These were silver tone, harmony. Ks. Ks. Yeah. The kind of the... Sears guitars.

I mean, they were good instruments. Sure. Just more affordable. And that's what a lot of that stuff, and they do have a distinctive sound. Same goes with the amps. They didn't have the showmans and the basemans. They had Alamo, this, the Challengers, and stuff. Maybe a champ.

Maybe, at best. Yeah. maybe yeah at best yeah uh so they they have made it a point to create interesting sounds with the unpredictable instruments wow it's an array we were talking james harman another buddy of ours uh james is a great blues harmonica blower yeah uh. James has worked with us on ZZ Top Records many times. And early on, James worked with Walter Shakey Horton. Yeah. They did a blues duet tour. And James was laughing because as kind of a curious, really dedicated and interested guy,

when they'd come back to the they shared hotel room and uh james said yeah i used to ask questions questions in fact uh i learned that i was asking too many questions and i said how so and he said well every night you know i'd say well what was it like in chicago what was like down in Mississippi? What was it like in Memphis? And one night, Walter turned to James and he said, you know, James, you're a curious man. You're always asking questions. He said, and there's a few things that you don't really know about me. James said, what would that be? And he said, you know Roy Rogers? And James looked at him kind of quizzically and said, you mean the cowboy? The movie star? He said, yeah, Roy Rogers. He said, yeah, I know Roy Rogers.

What about Roy Rogers? He said, well, you know his famous horse? He said, you mean Trigger? He said, yeah, Trigger. He said, what about it? He goes, I train Trigger. James, at that point, he shrunk down, realizing, okay, no more questions. He said, I've just learned it. But Walter Horton told him, he said, yeah, he said, one of the interesting asides, when Walter got to Chicago, he was knocking around, When Walter got to Chicago, he was knocking around, and he finally landed a job at one of the local taxi services in Chicago.

And he worked his way up to helping the dispatcher. And the reason that he was so strident and stuck it out until he got that position is he knew that during the dispatcher shift change, if he took some wire cutters, he'd cut that wire and he'd have a microphone to blow his harmonica through. Is that where that type of microphone started being used as a harmonica mic? I mean, because it's like a – what's that mic they use for those harmonica? That's a big old – you know that one that they – The Green Bullet. Well, Turner made one, Schur made one.

Little Walter is credited with, you know, first taking the Mississippi saxophone, as they called it, and amplification, you know. Juke. Oh, the best. Yeah. Good stuff. Really good stuff.

You want to play that guitar? Yeah. Let me break this thing out. I got to retrench back to a favorite. What? It was originally heard from the hand of Ry Cooter. His was a mandolin version, but I think we can get through it. Mmm. I think we can get through. I'll sing the true song of Billy the Kid. I'll sing on the record of deeds that he did.

Way out in New Mexico a long time ago when a man's best friend was his own 44 Now when Billy the King was a very young lad in old Silver City he went to the bad way out west with a knife in his hands

at the age of twelve years he killed his first man yeah Fair Mexican maidens play guitars and sing They sing the songs about Billy, their boy bandit king Before this young manhood had reached his sad end He'd notched on his pistol for 21 in. It was on one black night that poor Billy died. He said to his friends, I'm not satisfied,

his friends I'm not satisfied there's 21 men I've put bullets through and Sheriff Pat Garrett's gonna make 22 well this is how Billy the Kid, he met his fate

A big moon was shining and I was getting late Shot down by Patton Garrett, Silver City's best friend The poor outlaw's life has reached a sad end. Hey! Unbelievable. Thank you so much for talking to me,y it was a real honor awesome man mark thank you so much man how fucking amazing did that sound so simple so sweet and to hear that voice that we're all so familiar with over so many years, that unproduced. Just two mics in here, buddy. Just two mics in here, people.

That was an SM7 next to his mouth and an Encore, a blue Encore 200 on that little guitar. God damn it, that was fun. Great meeting that guy. He gave me a pick. I got it right here. I got a pick. Pick-ass pick, man. pick man so look folks that's it go to wtfpod.com for all your wtf pod needs check the calendar i am going to be touring a bit

with the oddball festival doing a little 15 minute spot in some cities got some other gigs coming up in bloomington i got some a gig coming up in uh charl City, St. Louis is sold out. But stuff's going on. Go to WTFpod.com. Check the calendar. Check the episode guide. Get the free app. Upgrade to premium.

Stream all that stuff for a few bucks extra. Thank you, Chicago. Thanks for coming out. That was fun. It was a big night for me man had a lot of realizations I'm on the precipice I'm on the precipice of big change

I'm on the precipice of letting go of the struggle of the panic of the cycle and just doing the work is that possible? now I'm second guessing it

now I don't even know what I'm talking about Boomer lives! you can get anything you need with Uber Eats. Well, almost almost anything. So no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats. But iced tea and ice cream? Yes, we can deliver that.

Uber Eats. Get almost almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth at a special 5pm start

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