WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 507 - Josh Groban

Episode Date: June 18, 2014

Singer Josh Groban remains strangely indefinable for a guy who sells millions of records and became a public celebrity at age 17. Marc tries to pin down the reasons Josh is not so easily categorized and Josh reveals the aspects of his personality that may come as a surprise to fans of his music. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton. The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5pm in Rock City at TorontoRock.com

Lock the gate! Alright, let's do this. How are are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fucking ears what the fuck nicks what the fucking ucks i am in i am in toronto as i'm saying this uh what have i got to tell you people i am mark maron this is wtf thank you for listening to my show we've got a an interesting guest because i wonder how many of you know him or know his work. Josh Groban is on the show today. He's a Twitter pal of mine, and he's a huge record-selling machine. People love Josh Groban. Who is Josh Groban?

Who loves Josh Groban? It would be easy for me to condescend the world of Josh Groban, but I chose to engage Josh in a nice conversation about his world. He's a crooner, an old-style kind of adult pop crooner. I don't even know how you'd categorize it. I have to talk to him about it. But I was curious, man. This cat has sold some fucking wax. he's a good guy and it's an

interesting story and i was thrilled to talk about it because it's popular music folks someone out there is buying those records and he's a very unsuspecting character for this type of uh stuff but people love the guy's voice and he's a good guy and you'll you'll hear me talk to him in a few minutes what do i got to tell you what's going on tonight on the show marin is an episode that i wrote uh called mark's family it features um judd hirsch sally kellerman is my mother and dave cross uh plays dave cross i'm trying to i'm going to try to give you some behind the scenes. Because sometimes, I don't know if you know exactly how casting goes and whatnot. But we wanted to have a podcast guest on this episode, the episode I was writing.

And we needed somebody, for reasons that will become revealed to you, that smoked weed. So I thought Seth Rogen would be great. So I wrote the part for Seth Rogen, assuming we could get Seth Rogen. You never know who you're going to get. And it's not really a matter of whether or not someone can play the part or it's really about availability. There's a lot of goodwill out there for my show. And I'm happy about that. And I contacted Seth because he'd been on my show. you know i said i you know i'd like to write you into this episode i think you'd be perfect for the part turns out he had to go to vancouver so then we got to figure out who can do this part and then you know david cross and i of course are our great old friends and he can

do anything he's really one of the funniest guys in the world so i reached out to dave and and it turns out he was going to be in town and he could do it. The problem is, is that, you know, sometimes there's a missing link in the chain and they sent a script out to Dave and he showed up to shoot. He walked in and he said, I didn't understand. I was reading the script and I didn't understand who I was because I saw, OK, there's Mark and there's Seth Rogen. And I didn't I didn't know what part I was playing. And then I realized I'm playing Mark and there's Seth Rogen. And I didn't know what part I was playing. And then I realized I'm playing Seth Rogen. Very awkward.

And had it been anybody else, it would have been really awkward. But Dave was fucking hilarious. And he's hilarious in the episode. It's a great episode. Also, you'll see more of the character established briefly uh in the first season of my brother there was a quick phone call in season one with my brother uh but in this uh troy ruptosh plays uh he's it's all about me and my brother it the whole episode revolves around me and my fictional brother played by troy who actually and it's a little known fact, and I believe it's true, he plays the original Don Draper.

He plays the Don Draper that was killed in Korea. The Don Draper who Don Draper steals his name from is Troy Reptosh, and he plays my brother. But I'm very proud of this episode. As I said, it came out of my mind. I did the original script for it it and i hope you enjoy it uh davis hilarious and it's always great to see cross oh next week next weekend is it next weekend weekend after this weekend is that next weekend yes yes it is so i believe that yeah the 27th the 28th bloomington indiana at the comedy attic please come if you're in the area i think there's tickets i don't know i know i'll be in

lawrence kansas also next week i think there might be a few tickets that go to just go to wtfpod.com and check the calendar okay i'm sorry i should be more organized i'm traveling a lot i think my sinuses are screwed up. And I just got a three boxes of Google clusters from Nashville. I don't know how many people listen to show. This is not a sponsorship thing, man. And it's like, it's one of those situations where I don't know what to do. I mean, I mentioned I never had them before.

And then they had Google cluster picks, guitar picks. And I talked about it on the Vince Vaughn episode. So I get this box today at the P.O. Box. Three boxes of three different kinds of Goo Goo Clusters. Three different kinds, 12 in a box. A hat, which I liked. A mug, which I'll use. A t-shirt, which I'll run in.

Because I'm going to have to after I eat three boxes of fucking Goo Goo Clusters. Original, super kind. Peanut butter. I mean, this is one of those situations where like i this is one of the benefits this is one of the perks but now i'm going to be tortured by by these goo goo clusters there's just going to be goo goo clusters just crying my name like sirens in a freezer and i'm not tied to the mast of a boat i can just go the the freezer oh i'm gonna need that shirt to run in they should have sent me more shirts another hat because i'm gonna have to run all the goo goo clusters off

i can't i cannot go on being this tortured by food i what i'm trying to say is thank you what did what came out did something else come out did it sound like a complaint so some of you saw me on louis on monday i didn't know when it was going to be on but he saved it for for the finale and uh i got a dvr i got to watch it it looked like it got some good feedback it seems that people are enjoying the old switcheroo the role reversal that was established in my uh interview with louis ck uh i i'm always uh thrilled and uh and honored to be asked to be on the show. I was happy he asked me last season. I was happy that he came up with this angle this season.

I hope you enjoyed that. Hopefully, you know, if we get another season of Marin, I don't know yet. Hopefully, we'll get Louie on Marin. As Louie, I think would be the best way to do it. But we're doing good. We talk occasionally. We're friends. And that's all leveled off.

And that's great. I'm talking to my father. I called my father on Father's Day. We're friends. And that's great. I'm having some trouble with Deaf Black Cat. I don't know why he's abandoned me. He showed up to basically,

I told you to say hello. And, uh, and that was that. And now I don't see him anymore. Maybe I'll check in as soon as I get worried again, but I guess, I guess cats don't really give a shit.

You know, I, I don't want to admit that. And I know my cats love me, but I don't know how long that love would last given a few days away maybe a week or two but i guess deaf black cat's getting some better food somewhere else and that's just the way it is as long as he checks in occasionally to let me know he's moved on you know i mean just you you can leave the nest but uh drop by occasionally for holidays maybe for a little something to eat every once in a while that's all i'm asking is that wrong

the crooners seem to be around a lot more now it seems to be sort of a throwback but i don't think josh groban's really a throwback he's he's he's a crooner for this age he's not doing some shtick he's not doing a sinatra shtick he's doing his own thing i remember one of the first cassettes i had was one of my parents cassettes it was a jerry tape. He was a crooner, wasn't he? All I remember was him doing a cover of Little Green Apples. God didn't make little green apples and it don't rain in many Indianapolis. Where is it? In the summertime.

Crooning is not my thing. Clearly not my thing. But I was excited to talk to Josh Groban. So why don't we do that now? Why don't we listen to me and Josh Groban? You'll be surprised. Surprised, not surprised. I like surprised.

Surprised, I understand. Surprised, I've not defined. Calgary is a city built by innovators. Innovation is in the city's DNA. And it's with this pedigree that bright minds and future thinking problem solvers are tackling some of the world's greatest challenges from right here in Calgary. From cleaner energy, safe and secure food, efficient movement of goods and people, and better health solutions, Calgary's visionaries are turning heads around the globe. Across all sectors, each and every day. Calgary's on the right path forward.

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in Rock City at torontorock.com. Yet. Yeah, I do play guitar, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck Fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck Yeah, I do play guitar, Josh. Do you play guitar? No, not at all. I grew up playing piano. Piano and drums.

The stringed instruments. Anything I need to put my finger on a string and build a callus. Did you just turn me up? Oh, sorry. Did I turn you up? I apologize. I was wondering, like, what is happening?

Oh, sorry. The second one is you. Oh, yeah, that's me. How's that, better? That's great. I was like, I've got a lot of Josh Grobanban in my head more me yeah me the guy he's really good with his voice i've never had anyone have a sense the host never heard anybody so clearly project into my head before you know it i'll have reverb on me yeah yeah yeah buzz

some echo yeah exactly just ricocheting in my brain the the dulcet sounds of Josh Groban's voice ricocheting conversationally in my mind. That's right. I just use the word dulcet. Is that the right word? Yeah, sure. Dulcet. Dulcet tones, they say.

Dulcet tones. Yes, my dulcet baritone will reverberate throughout your... That's been written about you. The dulcet baritone. Wasn't lucky. Are you a baritone or a tenor? I would say I'm a baritone. Uh-huh. Yeah. There was a time when i was i was really uh thinking to myself oh well you know

i'm i'm a baritone working on becoming a tenor and then i thought you know what i like singing low yeah yeah well the it's interesting to me like you're here because uh you we have common friends and you know i see your funny shit on twitter and. And somehow or another, I've decided I've identified a struggle in your life. And that is to reconcile the reality of your profession and what you're very good at and make a fortune doing. Thank you. And people love and enjoy. Okay.

And the fact that you're just a dude who likes to hang out. Yeah. How old are you? I'm 33. So you're 33. You want to have some peers. You know you're pretty groovy guy okay so at some point you know i i think maybe i'm wrong because i'm projecting so there's quite a possibility that i'm wrong that at some point you have to actually have a somewhat ironic detachment from what you are known as in the world you know

in order to integrate into uh you know the sort of community that you know you are known as in the world, you know, in order to integrate into, you know, the sort of community that, you know, you like hanging out in, like, you know, Tim and Eric or me or the Nerdist or the comedy world. Sure. Well, I mean, we're not all one thing. And I think that, you know, certainly I, I was signed at 17 years old and I was signed with a fairly large

classical style singing voice. So the marketing campaign around that kind of a singing voice is always going to be, you know, is going to have some, you know, certainly a lot of gravitas to it. A lot of billboards that look like a staring contest in the desert, you know. And, you know, I still, you know, I mean, we all like, we still like to hang out. I don't know. I don't know many classical singers that don't like to hang out. But just by virtue, is that what you call yourself,

a classical singer? I would say... A classical pop singer? I would say that my training has been classical while my music has been more on the pop side. Okay, well, we're going to go through that history in a minute, but I... Yes, but I do love absurdist comedy.

I do love being around funny people. I do love being, quote-unquote, you know, a normal dude, as you said, you know, when I'm not on stage. Because I think we need to turn off that side of our voice, that side of our brains, I mean. And, you know, there's a certain person that I flip into when I'm on stage and when I have to perform. Sure, you're a show business person. The moment that I'm off stage, it turns off. Right.

Well, I think what I'm getting at, what's interesting to me is, you know, I tweeted this morning, could somebody please point me towards the best Josh Groban album? Yes. So many people pointed. They just, you can't see that. No, they were very, no, I saw a few people, a few women were like, oh, you've got it, you know. Oh, no, you stirred the haters.

No, but not only haters, but they're condescending. I mean, yes, they're haters, but it's because they don't listen at all. They've made assumptions about who you are and your music. No, which is totally understandable. Right. And this morning, I'm like, well, I better listen to some Josh Groban. He's coming over. And I listen to some, and I got the beauty and the depth of your voice.

And I understand how you can make women weep and excited. And I'm not saying they're just women, men too. But it's not your thing. I mean, it's not everybody's thing. It's, you know, we all have different tastes and that's great. Okay, so, but this is a thing, the type of music you're doing in one form or another,

I think has been around for a long time. I mean, the type of music you're doing was popular music, you know, into the the mid 50s yes and that was it that this was it you know it was probably more big band driven or probably more but it was the pop music of its time you know whether you're talking about big band you're talking about enrico caruso you're talking about uh these art songs these love songs uh you know and it was it was at a time when you didn't need to sound like a chipmunk to be on popular consciousness. People had big voices.

They had big vibrato. They weren't afraid to kind of let loose, let that beast out. And that was considered like the romantic thing. Now it's very small. So, yeah. So I sing full-throatedly. Full-throated and sort of – there's a tempo to i i just don't there's a tempo to it i don't know what you would call it slow yeah slow tempo but i mean there is a easy listening element okay

or something that was once categorized that i mean i i'm saying that like in a lot of ways the type of pop music you're doing has been around longer than most of the other pop music right yeah i would say it's a very traditional style of pop music right and and so that audience is that audience yeah when people ask me you were asking me do i think of myself as a classical singer i actually really don't i mean the music that i sing i would consider a traditional style of pop music right right like for some reason i think of records uh you know that my my parents you know they i have the first bunch of cassette tapes that i sort of came upon because my parents had them yeah you know one of them was jerry vale oh yeah yeah like those guys yeah that they're they're sort of like you know they were they were modern crooners you know in the 60s sure uh you know i i don't know they had

great lush orchestrations i mean there was there was just as much emphasis on who the arranger was the arrangers were superstars back rack was a big guy with this stuff right am i wrong yeah totally and they're and they're timeless. And it's an era that comes around. And I think my challenge being, now I'm not as young, but when I started, is how do I find a way to make this relevant today, to find an audience today? But you found an audience. Well, I was very lucky.

I was very fortunate. I had a record label that said, we're not expecting anything from you. If we can break even, we'll be thrilled. Is that true? Yeah. Nobody wanted to sign me. When I got signed, my producer at the time, David Foster,

said, look, kid, we're on our own here. This is a passion project for us. Well, that's interesting. So let's lead up to that. Where were you born? At Cedars-Sinai. You were right here. Born in Los Angeles.

And both of your parents lived here? Yep. Are they still here? Yeah, they're here. And they're married? They're married 48 years. So you're relatively healthy background. Yeah, I had a Norman Rockwell childhood. Norman Rockwell? Yeah, I had the onesie. We had epic Christmases. Christmases. Groban sounds Jewish to me, not Jewish. Yeah, my father's side of the family was Jewish. My dad converted when he married my mom, which was a big scandal in the family. Wow, it usually goes the other way. It usually does go the other way.

He must have loved her. She just wouldn't tolerate a Jew in the house, huh? No, you know, we were raised very, very open-minded about religion. We did the Christian holidays, but other than that. But you must have Groban grandparents that are like, ay-yi-yi. Very much so. Yeah, on my father's side of the family. And I love that side of my family. I feel very, very attached to my Jewish roots. And so-

What kind of background does your mom have? My mom has a Norwegian background. So she's- That's interesting, huh? She's Scandinavian. Yeah. Scandinavian. That's some sturdy stock there. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Viking power. Yeah. A lot of relatives in Minnesota. there yeah oh absolutely viking power uh-huh yeah we you know a lot of a lot of relatives in minnesota i i'm willing to bet that your uh your genetic line needed that a little infusion of viking doesn't it doesn't hurt a jewish or anybody no it doesn't at all yeah if i have any muscle mass

whatsoever uh then it's it's it's from that side of the family for sure but okay so your father did what uh my dad well he played jazz trumpet all through school. Really? So he was a jazzer growing up. You grew up with that in the house? I grew up with that in the house. My dad played albums. He would play the trumpet sometimes.

You know, but his parents said to him, music is no way to make a living, you know, going to business. So he's been in the executive search field. He's what they call a headhunter. He's been doing that for years and years and years and still does it. And he still plays occasionally or not? He hasn't taken out the horn in a long, long time. I was actually in D.C. with Wynton Marsalis. We were testifying to Congress for arts education.

For what? I know, arts education. We were trying to get the arts funding bill passed. Really? You went and did that? Who were some of the other people involved in that? That year it was myself, Linda Ronstadt, and Wynton Marsalis. And every year they get a few people to do it. And that was the year that I testified.

To try to get money for the kids. Yeah, and it's a bit of a dog and pony show for Congress because they know already what they're going to put into it and it's going to be chump change. And you do it and hopefully raise awareness and get people to get more and more every year. But Wynton asked my dad about playing. And he said, you know, I'm going to call you at some point.

I better find out that you've been playing. And he got out the trumpet and he started playing and he still has the lip. How did Wynton know your dad? I introduced them in DC. My parents came out with me when I testified. And so Wynton kind of pressured him to start playing again. What's his style? Is it Miles or is it Chet Baker? No, it's neither. He worked with a guy named Ziggy Elman, who was a very kind of almost jazzy klezmer kind of stuff. Oh, yeah? Very wide vibrato kind of stuff. Gypsy-ish? Yeah, a little bit.

Yeah, exactly. So he would kind of almost croon on the trumpet. We've got old recordings of him playing, and he could play. Yeah? Yeah, he was good. So when you were a kid, that was around? That was around. Yeah.

And my parents are both, they're very musical, very artistic, never went into it professionally. So- What'd your mom do? So my mom was an art teacher. She was a high school art teacher. She taught- Love that. Crispin Glover was one of her students.

Really? Look what she did to him. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. She hasn't taken credit for that, but she should. Yeah. He's done something. That was right before the Letterman interview i think really he taught him no i don't know probably actually probably well he was acting since he was a in high school probably where'd she teach uh she

taught at merman school it's called merman school here in la um but you know growing up in los angeles it's it's a it's a cultural melting pot if you choose for it to be you know it's like you just got to throw the kids in the car and go and they did they took us out we we would go to the music center we'd see classical music for kids we would build a time machine in the lobby out of cardboard and then beethoven would pop out and play with the la phil it's it's you know it's it's it's nice to hear the good parenting yeah that you know you have a parent who's a teacher and a father who gives a shit yeah uh you know, they want to open the kid's mind. I was so fortunate, both my brother and I.

How old's your brother? My brother just turned 29. What's he doing? He's a film editor and director. We have the same birthday four years apart. Interesting. Yeah, crazy. So when you were growing up,

was show business just the industry of Los Angeles in your mind? Did you grow up with a lot of kids who were, parents were in show business? I did. Because it's interesting when I talk to people who grew up in L.A. that the way they think about, you know, entertainment and show business and movies and music and everything else is slightly different than those outsiders. Because you're dealing with kids, you're dealing with people that want to do it, that see it as a reasonable avenue because you live in an industry town. For sure, from day one. I mean, we're not here because the streets are paved with gold.

It's a thing you just kind of live and breathe since you're in elementary school. You're around kids that are like, oh, that's... Whose kids did you know? God, well, one of the reasons why I eventually was played for David Foster was that I was going to school with a kid named Matt Riggs, whose father was a very famous voice teacher named Seth Riggs. And we would have sleepovers and we would have birthday parties. And Stevie Wonder and Michael Jackson would be walking out of the house because he would teach them at the house. Yeah. And so it was that.

How old were you? I was like 10. Really? Yeah. So he was the guy. He was the? Yeah. So he was the guy. He was the guy. Yeah, he was the guy. You know, we knew...

But where does that story go from there? Nowhere. He wound up giving me lessons. He wound up having a group of kids that Matt went to school with come for like a free music lesson. Oh, to show them, to encourage them. Yeah, to encourage them. Yeah, exactly. Here's what my dad does. He's going to give us all a lesson. Oh, that's them, to encourage them. Yeah, to encourage them. Yeah, exactly. Here's what my dad does.

He's going to give us all a lesson. Oh, that's fun. And he's running us through scales and I was super shy about my own voice because I was a total late bloomer. My voice didn't even change until like 15.

So how old were you at this time? I was probably 12, 13. Okay. And all of a sudden I sing a few scales and he's like, oh, that's very good. That's very good.

I'm going to give you more lessons. So he let me come over for free. You know, we would do a few lessons. Eventually I started paying him but it was David Foster who called him and said, hey, I'm in a clinch. Who have you got

who's young, who can sing? I was at that point 15 or 16 years old. He sent me my tape and the rest is history. Okay, well let's talk about that history. Because I'd like to talk about that. So you're 15 years old. You're taking lessons with this guy Riggs because he sees talent and he obviously wants to nurture your talent because he's letting you do it

for nothing. Yeah. I assume that was the interest. Yeah. He must have been sort of fascinated. Sure. And so this guy Foster, who does, tell me about him because I don't know him. Okay.

So David Foster, God, he's got 14 Grammys. He's produced everything from the Whitney Houston Bodyguard album to Chicago to Boss Gags to, you know, a lot of stuff. A lot of vocalists. 70s guy. Yeah, he did a lot of stuff in the 70s, 80s, 90s. And today, you know, he's now the head of Verve Records at Universal. Verve Records. Mm-hmm.

Still around. Oh, yeah, still around. I got some stuff from Vanguard. Were they reissuing their old catalog as well? And new. I mean, they've got a lot of amazing... Are you on Verve? I'm not.

I'm on Warner Brothers. Uh-huh. But he's doing great over there, and he's got people like Jamie Cullum, a lot of jazzers. That was the jazz label for years. Yeah, absolutely. So he's in a pinch for what? Okay, so he's... Why does a guy need a singer right away

so he's been charged with being the he's been given the job of being music director for at that time

the governor of California was Gray Davis he had just been he had just been elected and they're doing this big concert

at the arena Arco Arena in Sacramento and they were going to get Michael Crawford from Phantom of the Opera to sing a big song from that.

And he got sick, pulled out. So he calls Seth and he's like, you know what, I don't need a big star. Who have you got as a young kid who can sing in this style? And I'll just throw him out there. Did you know the song? I learned it. You know, Seth goes, oh, you know,

David needs somebody to sing. Go with my friend, record the song on a cassette. And I did, I learned it. And I sent it to him. He sent it to him With five other singers By the way And he called me up And he goes

Hey man Yeah you were a little flat But you were good I liked your sound You know A little flat We can work on that We can work on that

And so he had me come in All of a sudden I'm in an ill-fitting tuxedo In front of 25,000 people With a full orchestra 25,000 people It was in the round The stage was in the middle

And they had surrounded it It was You've never been on stage before I had been on stage at my junior high school in front of 200 people doing what doing uh fiddler being the skinniest tevye and fiddler on the roof so you're doing uh yeah i have five daughters yeah so you know junior high you did junior high yeah you did fiddler it's yeah the little beard oh i had the beard i had the fake belly i had the whole thing totally yeah the whole thing you know and uh and i had oh god that cast was really really hysterical but did people resonate with

your voice then when i mean the like the parents that came to see fiddler yeah they were were you were you already sort of like oh my god yeah because my voice at that point was, you know, got the attention to foster. It had changed. Yeah, thank God. And I was singing this stuff pretty big because I had a pretty operatic voice back then. And so, yeah, I don't think they were expecting that

from a 17-year-old high school student. Usually, you know. Is that on, do you have that on film? It's all on YouTube. It is on YouTube. Somebody leaked it all on YouTube. Really? Oh, yeah.

It's hysterical. Oh, that is hilarious. It's fun. I'm proud of it. You know, it's good. But yeah, all on YouTube. Really? Oh, yeah. It's hysterical. Oh, that is hilarious. It's fun. I'm proud of it. You know, it's good. But, yeah, so that was kind of the first thing that I had done, and then it went straight from that to this event with David. So I was very much a student and a professional pretty much at the same time back then,

and it was terrifying. So 25,000 people. Yeah. And you didn't shit your pants. You didn't throw up. You didn't sweat. This was before Depends was a thing. Uh-huh. Yeah, I was before depends was a thing uh yeah

i i was i was sweating i was i was you know sharing a dressing room with god it was the weirdest i think i was sharing a dressing room with like edward james almost and coolio like it was a very very odd leo was around a lot for a little while that was right at right before yes right before uh he did uh hollywood squares yeah yeah Like, he was everywhere for a minute. He was. That was Gangster's Paradise time. That was amazing. That was his only time,

wasn't it? That was amazing. It was an epic time. I mean, really, that was... Sometimes you only get one big one, right? You know, sometimes. Sometimes, yeah.

It happens a lot. Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, that was that. So you're there 25,000... My dad's in the back row. He's taking a shaky video of it, you know, and I remember just,

that was my first time experiencing what it felt like to just kind of be in that Nike just do it kind of zone. Like I was so nervous. I was pacing backstage. And I don't remember a thing about being on stage. I just remember kind of just feeling like, all right, I got this thing I need to do. And when I walked off stage and I had seen that I'd gotten a standing ovation, I was just, it was just this thing where I said, okay, this is something, this is something I can do. I didn't expect to continue doing it. I expected to go back to school.

Also, you were kind of a marvel. You're what, 17? Yeah, I was 17. And people were like, holy shit. Yeah. Did they bring you out as a 17 year old? Oh yeah. So David knew what he was doing too.

You know, if he's not going to get the superstar, then he's going to, then he's going to create an ambiance around. He's going to be a wonder kind. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

You know, the 17 year old, you know, scrawny kid. So, you know, so I gave David a hug, and I just said, hey, thank you so much for allowing me this opportunity. I went back to school. I was intolerable for a couple of days, you know, in class. But then I just expected, you know, that was it. We all get a chance to do something like that.

Really? I really, I didn't have aspirations to be, you know, on a stage in front of thousands of people with a microphone being me. Right. I expected to do theater. I expected to maybe do some acting, maybe some comedy, whatever. But I wasn't ever expecting, especially at that time period where we were in the NSYNC days. We were in the, you know, it was, if you wanted to be a pop star or a recording star, that was not the kind of voice to have.

Right. Yeah. wanted to be a pop star or recording star yeah that was not the kind of voice to have right yeah so okay so but at that time because it sounds it sounds like you could handle some opera if you wanted i was studying it sure you were studying yeah in high school in high school i was taking voice lessons on the side i was actually studying i was at a great uh public school here in la called the los angeles county high school for the arts um and i was there as a drama major and I would take voice lessons on the side. I was working with Seth still. I was working with a guy named David Romano. And, uh, so you knew you had this gift. I did. I did, but I was, I don't know. I knew I could sing, but I was, I was very shy about it for a very, very long time. I find it to be the most vulnerable, terrifying thing you can do.

Yeah. Because, because I don't have any chops. So, you know, all I can do is sing as authentically as possible, and I can carry a tune. But to me, it's like, you know, I'll talk about almost anything. Right. And I'll put myself out there. But, you know, when I'm singing, it's terrifying. Well, I feel that way when I look at great stand-up comedians,

and I say to myself, God, who would, who's, what kind of glutton for punishment would put themselves in this kind of a naked position well that it's weird i don't know why exactly i feel like it's so naked maybe because you know to me like i'm so tenuous about it or i don't maybe i don't have any confidence in it but you know when somebody takes the stage as a singer right you know i don't especially somebody who does the type of thing you do right i don't think people are like thinking like, oh, he's wide open. Oh, yeah. You know what I mean?

Like they want the song to enchant them. Sure. You have the protection of the song in a way. Well. And if you deliver it well. Sure. It's magic works. Well, yes.

And sometimes you deliver it as well as you thought you could do. And the audience is just clinking their plates and it's dead. You can bomb as a singer just as you can bomb as a comedian you know it's it's is that true yeah absolutely you play certain charity events you play some certain certain stuff where people just aren't in the mood to listen but they don't pay attention they're not paying attention you got a band behind you yeah that's true yeah you still you could still kind of get lost in your thing there are there are very there are different levels of things you can you can hide behind in music i don't have backup dancers or anything like that, but I do have a band, yes.

And you don't do lip syncing? No, no, no. Ever? Of course, never. So even in that first moment where you're singing for 25,000 people, you had confidence in your voice, you knew the song was a good song, people identified this song, but do you necessarily ever feel vulnerable? Every time I walk out on stage.

Yeah, it's terrifying. I think confidence is an interesting thing because once you feel like, it wasn't until feel vulnerable uh every time i walk out on stage it's terrible yeah it's terrifying i think i think confidence is an interesting thing because once you feel like it wasn't until very recently maybe in the last four years that i started to feel like all right i've put in my 10 000 hours i've put in my experience i've i've been through enough trial by fire moments and david was was a master in his mentorship of really putting me in uh very, very, very, uh, terrifying positions. Like there was a moment backstage where I said to him, look, I, I have a sore throat. I'm not feeling good tonight. There's a song he wanted me to do that just had this super high note. And it was called

the prayer. It was a song that he had done with Andrea Bocelli and, uh, Celine Dion. And that was a song that he had me do at a Grammy rehearsal when I was 17, which kind of got the ball rolling. And so he had me do it at this event. And I said, you know, it's okay if I just don't do the note tonight. He goes, yeah, yeah, yeah. They're not in it for the note. They're in it for, you know, whatever else. They want to hear the quality of your voice.

Don't worry about the note. Feel better. I go up on stage. The quality of the note. He just said basically, just sing. Just sing as well as you can, and that'll be enough. I go out on stage, and five seconds before I'm supposed to hit that note, which I'm thinking to myself, I'm just going to mark it tonight. What does mark it mean?

It means I'm going to pick a different note or not sing it full voice. Yeah, go under the note. And he gets on his microphone at the piano, and he goes, here comes the money note. It's basically like forcing me right in the moment to just go ahead and sing it, and I did. He said that out loud? He said that out loud on mic to all the people in the middle of the song no just to fuck with me just to basically say so it was a loose situation just no it was a very stressful situation he just he just knew that i was trying to cop out and he's like that was his way of saying if you want to if you want to play in the big leagues you got to hit the fucking note and he knew you were in a situation where he could fuck with you. Oh totally

absolutely. It wasn't a big gig Well because I was so neurotic I was always How old were you then? 18, 19 Oh so this was at the beginning. This was at the beginning Before you recorded. I'm still neurotic but yes we were in the middle of recording my first album so this was at a time where nobody

cared, nobody knew Did you hit it i hit it yeah i did yeah lesson learned lesson totally you can turn off sickness you can for the duration of your performance you absolutely can no you absolutely can yeah yeah but uh all right so let's go back so you do the 25 000 people it's you do one song you big hit you go back to school now i got to assume the people you're hanging out with you know are not unless you're hanging out with the theater kids yeah you didn't get your balls busted at all for well what you know your interest was that's the nice thing about being in an art school

is that is that is that everybody everybody is taking the train from from from god knows right but they're all coming from the same point of light there's no football team no there was no no no and i went to a private school before that. And yeah, no, of course. I was just, you know, basically hung on the fence by my underwear. Gilded cage. Yeah.

It was for sure, you know, so. For the singing bird. Yeah, no, exactly. So I was fortunate, you know, I made a lot of great friends there, many of which are still my best friends today. And so it's a special place. We need more of those kinds of schools.

No, I agree with you, man. You know, the fight that the creative kids have to fight just to do what they want to do or be what they want to be in the face of fucking morons is disastrous. I didn't start going to that school until 11th grade. And coincidentally, 11th grade is when I got my first girlfriend. You know, I just started to feel like a human being.

You know, I started to feel like... Well, it's something in place that encourages, you know, the thing you want to work on, the talent, even if it's, you know, off the sort of normal grid, whatever the hell that means. Right. But I, and also it's nice to have parents that support that because I think not unlike your grandmother, you know, who said to your father, I think that parents get concerned. They do. About, you know know pursuing that well

yeah and they were very real i mean they're i mean don't get me wrong they're very realistic too i mean they were very they loved that i was interested in music they obviously knew that i had a singing voice but at the same time they knew that it was you know potentially meant for them they'd never be empty nesters so uh you know we got to get this kid out exactly what was it did you have a plan b i, were you moving towards something? Did your parents see it? I was accepted to Carnegie Mellon University for theater, you know, and I was... So your plan B was acting.

My plan B was... Great. Real joy. They at least got me out of the house for four years, you know, so... But, you know, no, there was a certain point where I realized that the arts had to be my thing, you know, because my grades were not great. So, you know, it's... It worked out. So, you know, it's, it's, it worked out. I was very fortunate.

I was very lucky. So tell me about this, this Grammy thing that was the big break. I mean, so it was, so after the 25,000 thing, the phantom, the fluke. Yeah. So three weeks later, David called me and he said, you know, hey, you were great at that thing. Listen, I'm at the Grammys right now. This song is nominated for an Oscar. It's nominated for a Grammy.

It's called The Prayer. Celine Dion and Andrea Bocelli are going to sing it at the Grammys right now. This song is nominated for an Oscar. It's nominated for a Grammy. It's called The Prayer. Celine Dion and Andrea Bocelli are going to sing it at the Grammys. Anyway, Bocelli is on a plane stuck in Germany. He can't make it. Would you sing it with Celine until he gets here? I'm going, oh, God. Send me the song. Let me see.

But you're just like this 18-year-old kid. Now you've got to go sing with this, like, I don't even know what she is. No. She's on some other different plane. A different planet yeah totally and i i you know it's like nine feet tall right being invited to the to the mothership yeah she no she's just well she just she floats she's just you know she's just you know oh nice to see you kiss kiss you know it's just wonderful uh positive energy that that comes from her and

she's the good part of diva yeah exactly right know, she knows she's a badass, but she handles it, you know, with humility. But so, you know, I got the song. He sent me the song. This was before... You didn't know the song? No, I hadn't heard the song, and I'd hardly sung in Italian before that, you know, and so... It was in Italian? Oh, yeah, my part was going to be in Italian.

Sure, and I had taken some classical voice training, but I'm thinking to myself, like I said, I was still very much a student, so... Wait, classical voice training, but I'm thinking to myself, like I said, I was still very much a student. Wait, classical voice training means you learned how to sing in Italian? Well, meaning that you study the opera languages, you study the romance languages, you study singing. Do you need to know what you're saying or no? Well, sure, yeah, of course. I mean, that was the thing. So you understand Italian?

Certainly when I'm singing in it, you know, I learn it backwards and forwards so that I know the full translation. So you can have the feelings behind the words? Yeah, exactly right. You want to be able to close your eyes and sing. You don't want to that I know the full translation. So you can have the feelings behind the words? Yeah, exactly right. You want to be able to close your eyes and sing. You don't want to have to look at the translation. And you've got to get the language right. You've got to get it right. So he faxes me, and this is before email, this is before MP3,

so he faxes me the lyrics. In Italian. He sends over a messenger with the CD, and I'm going, oh, my God, because I was very much a baritone then, and Bocelli is like a primo tenor. So I say, you know, again, with the note, I don't think I can hit that fucking note note i would be like i can't this is an italian yeah so i said david i really don't want to embarrass myself at this really prestigious thing so you know thank you but this one i'm just gonna have to pass yeah you know just just being

so clueless and i hang up the phone and he calls me back 15 minutes later he goes hey man hey it's david again listen i don't think you heard me correctly I wasn't asking you I was telling get your ass over to the Shrine Auditorium you know we'll see you there at 3

you're 18 I'm 18 he didn't give me any passes or anything so I'm standing at the side door with my dad saying hey I gotta

sing with Celine Dion but you never but you're like you don't have it in you to go like you know like this is fucked I can't do this

in my head I was you were sure this is gonna suck this is gonna suck so bad this is gonna suck this is gonna suck so bad this is gonna suck so bad suck right in front of celine diana right exactly right well not only that i don't know what happened between then and now now now these award shows have become such an enormous thing now they're at staple center now they're you never see anybody

that you're collaborating with at those things now. Now the dressing rooms are so far away. Nobody watches rehearsals. At the Shrine, back when it was, you know, this was 1999, everybody was sitting out in the audience waiting for the rehearsal. So we had Madonna sitting out there. You had Steven Tyler sitting out there. You had, you know, all these people. That was the year Ricky Martin got discovered. And he's like, you know, just walking around backstage, you know, just.

It's small. It's a very small theater. Feels like show business. Yeah, exactly. So I go up on stage and Celine saw that my hand was shaking. So she decides, oh, I'm going to take his hand and I'm going to move him to the front. Like that's our choreography. So she was so sweet.

The sweating kid. Totally. Walking through this. Well, I'm standing on stage and they're wondering where the hell this Josh Groban, Groblang, Brolin kid is or whatever. And I'm going, oh, it's me. They're like, you? All right, whatever. Stand on the X.

Selena will be here momentarily. And she just floats out on stage with her entourage and, you know, and the music just starts out of nowhere. And here's your mic. Oh, shit. And again, it was one of those things where just, you know, it happened. It came out. I did it.

My dad's going, you knocked it out of the park. He was there? My dad was there. He went with you? He drove you? Yeah, exactly right. You know, he drove me me he's the guy that had to convince the bodyguard on the side of the stage that i was actually allowed to go on stage and sing because we're gonna end up and afterwards he was like uh felling yeah he was felling he was like oh man you you

nailed it you nailed it joshua you know and so we drove home and again i was just like oh man this this is getting crazy but what what happened what did did Celine do after? She was so cool. And she talked to me backstage and she said. She didn't go, what the fuck? Where did that come from? There's video footage of this, too. Because my dad, again, and she was also very cool. She let my dad videotape the rehearsal, which having worked with a lot of divas, you know, since then, oftentimes those kind of rehearsals are you can't film anything.

And she was like, yeah, sure, of course, film will do this. So, you know, she was so supportive. She gave me such great encouragement backstage and just said, you know, you keep doing your thing. You've got a very unique thing. You keep doing it. And eventually people will pay attention. Unique how?

I just think that she heard that it was, I don't know, she... I don't listen to enough singers like you to know, you know, what makes, you know, something, you know, translate. What do you think it is about you? I don't, you know singers like you to know, you know, what makes, you know, something, you know, translate. What do you think it is about you? I don't, you know, it's hard. I'm too close to it, too, you know, to be honest.

What have you read? I don't know. I think my thing is that I think if I keep my voice in a certain place sonically, it has a, I guess, a, sometimes there's a pathos, I think. There's certain voices that you just, and I know that the voices. A melancholy. Yeah, I guess. A portal into those kind of feelings. Into an emotion, into those feelings. Yeah, the voices that I love are the kind of voices where if you listen to them for five seconds, you just know who it is.

Like who? You know, I used to, I grew up listening to everybody from Mel Torme to Peter Gabriel to Bjork. You know, I just, you just know. Pavarotti was a perfect example. There were a hundred thousand tenors at that time. But there was something that was, there was like a squeal. There was a, there was a quality to his, to the way that he sang. It's a gift, Joshua.

It's a gift. I don't, I've never seen it, quite frankly. I've always been really insecure about singing and listening to myself sing is kind of the same way people are when they hear themselves speak on a even now even now 20 million plus records later absolutely you're still like now you don't want to turn that off please when i'm doing the big orchestra sessions at the sony or wherever i i'll sing with them and i'll get so much pleasure from singing and then when they're playing it back i I have to step out of the room.

I'm too hypercritical about it. All right, so you do this thing with Celine. Dad's happy. Yeah. Foster's, you know, he's got faith in you, obviously. So then he has a story. Oh, my God, he should have seen this kid come out with Celine. He's got a story to bring back to the executives and the people in the world.

Exactly right. We've got a wonder kind on our hands. Kind of. So we sang it. We did a lot of things together. We sang it at 101 charity right. We got a wonder kind on our hands. Kind of. So we sang it. We did a lot of things together. We sang it at 101 charity events. We did a lot of events. But that was his plan for you to get your chops.

I don't think he necessarily... Yes, but I'm not even sure it was a plan at that point. I just think he had to do these things regardless, and it was great for him to have... What do you mean he had to do? He produced them? He does a lot of events. He's music director at a lot of great events.

Music director. Yeah, he's always lending his talents to charity events. You know, we did a lot of, you know- So he had a thing in you in that, you know, you were a new guy on the scene. You had a gift and you were young. But also, he afforded you this weird opportunity to get some professional experience. Oh, absolutely. It was a master class.

Every day was a master class. Most with charity events? Charity events, some billionaires' backyards, whatever it was that he had to do at the time, I would drive up and do it. Any opening slots or anything like that? What, for me? I was the opening slot.

No, that's what I mean. But on pay shows? Oh, no, I never did the opening thing. I didn't even tour on my first record. It all happened so quickly. All right, so you do how many of these events, you think? And what's the year span before you start recording? Between 1999 and 2001.

You were just doing whatever he said. I was just going to a ton of different things. And the size of the orchestra would change. Sometimes you have a combo. Sometimes you have an ensemble. Exactly. It was depending. How much money was involved for nothing i didn't no no no for for whoever was producing the event so so foster would be hired as a music director they'd say here's the budget

yeah and he'd say why can't i can put together you know 16 piece here exactly it out yeah he would put it anyway here's another budget where i can bring a combo out you know the guy at the keyboard and the drum and it was always i was always sandwiched between the head you know before between the headliners who know these headliners oh they'd be in from elton john i remember one event i was sandwiched between bb king and ray charles i mean like it was it was insane i mean it was it was i was i was the guy that that they weren't expecting i was always it was it was always terrifying for me because i would look at the bill and i would go oh god but sort of weird that's an eclectic kind of like uh world of music it was that you know there's a very specific you know it's not even mainstream these are usually journeymen right you know who have a very specific ability yeah uh that is not going

to offend anybody necessarily and most of them are recognizable from the last 50 years or so of music right and you know and they're they're they're not gonna they're not gonna fuck it up right no of course right so when you're working with somebody like bb king do you have a conversation with bb king no i didn't have a conversation with bb do you have a conversation with ray charles i didn't get to know of course not no i didn't elton john you have a conversation with elton yeah elton well elton you know he seems to be very available i've gotten to know and well it's not even available he's just he's just. He's just super interested in all types of artists that come out. He knows everything about everyone.

Every time he does his AIDS Foundation, he's got a new artist that he showcases on stage. Yeah, he seems to be into it. I don't know if he was always like that. I don't know either. The prime of his career, but I'm talking to Josh Homme in here. Yeah. And he's like, Elton's into me. Yeah.

I'm like, really? What the hell? He asked me, we were backstage at something in London, and he said, hey, I'm doing a breast cancer event. Would you sing with me at this? Yeah, we got to sing your song together. You sang duets with Elton John? I sang a duet with him.

I got to sing a duet with him. He did one of my songs, and I did one of his songs. It was tremendous. He can still nail it, right? Oh, yeah. Oh, man. He's incredible. I mean, he's one of those guys.

The thing- And he's on piano, and you're singing with him? Yeah it was beyond it was a pinch me moment yeah i've gotten to sing with with with people that i just i never expected like who else oh man i mean the the the people that i know on the record you did you work with herbie hancock and lady smith yeah some other duets yeah i i i really a very very fun one was uh was singing with Paul Simon. Paul Simon was always one of my heroes growing up. Paul Simon's great. He is great. He's undeniably, like, I don't even know what it is.

Like, he's so uniquely himself. Yes. And has been all the way through. I mean, like, his solo shit. I mean, I listened to the first solo album a lot. Yeah. With, you know, Mother and Child Reunion. Oh, yeah.

There goes Ryman Simon. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But the self-titled. Oh, yeah. I love that. Because it was an A-track we had in the car. Oh, you know, Mother and Child Reunion. Oh, yeah. There goes Ryman Simon. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But the self-titled. Oh, yeah. I love that. Because it was an A-track we had in the car. Oh, really? When I was a kid.

Oh, fantastic. I mean, that was the first, those were some of the first cassettes my parents would play in the house were Paul Simon. It's interesting because, you know, he has a very specific and kind of narrow vocal range. Well, he's, you know, he tells his own stories like nobody else can. Right. His unique phrasing, unique sound. And there's something very sweet about the way he sings.

How do you play up against that with the momentum of your voice? Well, I mean, it was a thing we did at BAM in Brooklyn. We were honoring him. It was a number of us. I got to meet the guys in Grizzly Bear at that time. That was before they'd blown up. And we all sang Paul Simon songs.

It was the American Tune Week where it was all of his Simon and Garfunkel and early solo work. And so I sang... What did you sing? I sang, let's see, I came out and sang

America at the piano. By yourself? By myself, which was the song I was doing in my show. You played it? Yeah, I played it and sang it. And then I sang a song

that really kind of took him by surprise because he had never sung it live before. It was a song called Silent Eyes, which has always been one of my favorites. But he said to me on the phone, this is a song I never felt that I could redo after I had sung it on the album. What album is that on? He didn't feel. That was on, I think, Still Crazy. Really?

Yeah. And he said, I never felt like I could sing that song live. So he was thrilled that I was singing that song. And he got Philip Glass to write an arrangement. And we did a whole thing with an Armenian de Duke player and a Kenyan guitar player. And it was really, really interesting. And then we did Bridge Over Troubled Water together. You did that.

You did Garfunkel's part. I was decidedly Garfunkel in the duo, yes. And we did that one together. That fucking song always makes me cry it's amazing it is it's i don't even it's like you know because like i'm crying thinking about it like i'm getting choked up thinking about bridge over trouble it's just it gives you chills no matter what because garfunkel too had a very sweet voice it's great range. I mean, yeah, amazing. Surprising. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, they sang great together. So a much higher voice than me.

But that's interesting. So, you know, you work with these guys who are orchestral wizards and arrangers. So, you know, to kind of pigeonhole you as a schlockmeister is is a little unfair in that i i don't know that people quite understand that you know the voice is an instrument yeah and that when you know you are you know being sort of uh you know kind of guided by someone like philip glass i mean how do you work with someone like philip glass well it's a great it's a great challenge i mean i you know all of we all have whatever our instrument is. We have to express it to its most honest core. For me to decide to sing rock or rap or something like that

would not be giving my voice what it does best. And so I can certainly understand. Was there a time where you, I mean, theoretically, you could have been a front man in a rock band with that voice. That's been done before. There a rock band with that voice that's been done before there are guys with pipes that really fucking do it yeah was that ever sort of like was it not your music decidedly or i love i grew up loving rock and roll i just i just i i put that in the drum category i play drums and bands uh whenever i tried to sing rock music i would

lose my voice i didn't want to lose my voice and i also grew up listening to inspired by, by both rock singers, but I was also inspired by some of the great classical singers, some of the great crooners. And I just decided since specifically my, my goal at that time was theater that I wanted to sing like the great theater baritones. And that was, that was my, my goal. I was listening to George Hearn and, and, and Brian Stokes Mitchell and, and those people, John Raitt. And I just thought, that's the guy I want to be. I would get chills when I would sit in an audience and listen to those guys sing, and I would think to myself, if I could have a really great, pure baritone voice,

that's what I want. And I still loved all these other kinds of music. It was just that that... But there was something that you gravitated towards the intimacy of true theatrical performance. Yeah, there was. That, you know, the... The storytelling.

The storytelling. But also, it's a different type of attention paid right to to a vocal performance right you know we got a rock band you know you've got to generate you know that thing that rock generates right of course in your own style sure but it's still sort of like it's usually a clusterfuck of some kind right yeah and so but you know when you you talk about you know theatrical vocals whether they be classical or even in musicals and stuff the type of attention that is brought to that type of singing

yeah is very respectful well you must have felt the weight of that i i did very much feel the weight of that and there was definitely a pedestal that i felt like i needed to put my voice on from an early age as far as just taking care of it yeah were you a harry nelson guy yeah oh yeah harry nelson what the hell where did that voice come well just i mean the oddness of him was just so awesome to me i just i just felt like a singer though right incredible singer such an amazing songwriter and so misunderstood for so many years you see that doc a great doc disturbing when you tell me you were afraid to to shred your voice that the fact that you see that doc? A great doc. Disturbing. When you tell me you were afraid to shred your voice, that the fact that, you know, that you have this instrument that you can destroy. You know,

I think that in my life, you sort of misunderstand the need to protect that thing. You know, this is like, this is in your throat and in your lungs. You can't polish it and put it away and burn the candle. It's, it's, uh, it's, and, and, and, you know, so, so your job is to go out and make it look easy. Your job is to go out and hopefully move people and reach people. But all the time that you're not doing your job, you're thinking about that, that very thing that you just mentioned. And it can make people crazy.

Somebody like Steve Perry, for instance, Jesus Christ, that guy could sing. I mean, has one of the greatest voices in any genre. And how about that little Filipino guy that does? Well,

he's amazing. Is he Filipino? Yeah, he's Filipino, but I don't think he has the mental demons that steve perry had i think i think he came at it from a karaoke world yeah where he just fucking loved the songs yeah and he's just like oh my god you're gonna give me this gig he's enjoying every note that he sings and i think that steve perry was tormented and i think he might fucking way out of it i don't know i i just i i have a feeling that it just it just got to him the stress of what you were just talking about the stress of how can I maintain this? Maybe he had a few off nights that just drove him crazy.

I don't know. Have you spent time with him? But no, I haven't at all. I'm only, I'm only. Speculating. Speculating from my own personal experiences of the things that could possibly teeter you over the edge. What are your concerns on your off times?

Oh man. Do you run scales? Do you? I try to do scales, you know. Every day? Oh, man. Do you run scales? I try to do scales, you know. Every day?

It's that fine line of working your voice like a muscle, of understanding the pressure that goes into maintaining your voice at a certain level. But then at the same time, not trying to be overly precious about it, not trying to view it as like this delicate vase that if you do anything wrong, it's going to shatter. Because that's not true either. So sometimes you just got to sing. It was like when David told me to just sing the fucking money note. Right. You know, sometimes you just have to sing. Right.

But, you know, so it's that balance. And I think that that's why I say with the experience, now that I'm 33, I feel like I'm finally, my mind and my voice are finally starting to balance out a little bit. Right. Well, what do you do to take care of your voice? Well, some of it is simple. Some of it's just drink lots of water, get lots of sleep. Yeah.

And some of it is just making sure you do the right scale regimens however many times a week. Or if you're on tour, it's a totally different regimen because you're- You're blowing it out every night. You're leaving a pint of blood on stage for two hours every night. Yeah. Your whole life revolves around those two hours. Yeah. Because feeling like you might lose your voice three songs in is not fun in front of 20,000 people.

You felt that. Oh, yeah. I've felt that before a couple of times. All it takes is a couple out of a thousand shows to really make you realize the pressure of what you have to do out there. It's just coming out of your fucking mouth. Yeah. Yeah, and it's mental.

I mean, it's all mental. There's a reason why everybody sings so great at karaoke. It's just because you're mentally just out to lunch. And you also got to do it once. Yeah, it's just once. You got your song. Yeah. You nail it.

Yeah, I was talking to somebody else about that. If you have a certain amount of ability, usually you can do something a few times. Yeah. You can nail it because you're so focused and nervous. Sure. But maintaining it and doing it over and over again yeah as a living it's a whole different animal man you know sure it's enough to hate it if you if you didn't love it so much yeah you know so okay so now david foster he's got you running around you know doing

the opening slot of charity gigs the middle slot you're working with you know real sort of uh wise veteran showbiz entertainers. And that was at a time, now that I look back at it in hindsight, that was really a golden era. The final, final fleeting moments of this golden era in the music business where you could still sign a deal that was fair and that you felt like could actually lead to eight albums. And you could actually build slowly and your first album didn't hit, no big deal. Right. Now it's all about 360 deals. And if your first single doesn't hit no big deal right uh you know now it's it's all about 360 deals and if you if your first single doesn't 360 a 360 deal is basically what any new artist

has to sign now which is that you don't just you don't just sign to make music you sign you're giving them your tour giving them your merchandise you're giving them your entire brand essentially because most of the money's coming because most of the money is coming from that stuff now so so they're in you know the music business is generally the content business now yeah it's it's it's interesting too because like since most of the money i imagine a lot of money was always generated by touring but so much of the money is generated by merch and and you know the record sales thing has become different but i i imagine the challenge is not to to to run down your artists or to allow yourself to be run down on a touring schedule that's that's your own you've got a you've got to kind of be a judge of that,

and you've got to have a great team around you, great management and things like that. All right, so what was the original idea? So now you've put some work in, you've got some chops, you've sung in front of people, and David Foster sits down and says what? He convinces the record label, because he was VP there at the time,

that this was something that he could make that would be a passion project for him. They believed in him, and they believed in my ability, but they didn't believe in it in a marketing way. What was that discussion like? Like, how are we going to sell this kid? I was blissfully unaware of all that at that point. Yeah, but who were the guys in your world? I mean, who were the guys that the model was based on at that time? Michael Feinstein? No, I mean... Harry were the guys that the model was based on at that time? Michael Feinstein?

No, I mean... Harry Connick? Yeah, I guess Harry Connick at some point. Andrea Bocelli had had that one album that had been explosive at that point, Romanza. There was starting to become... But he's like this... The Three Tenors. Right.

There was starting to be a bubbling of this idea that traditional style of arrangement and music was getting popularized again. And so that was where David was trying to think 10 steps ahead, where the record label was still trapped in, hey, we got this new song by Crazy Town. And so he's always had a great ability to know what's next. Right. And so we got started. And we got started at his house, and we just made a record by ourselves, you know? So all the material that you do, uh, is written by others?

Uh, for that, that, the first album, yes. Every album since then. Were they all covers or were some of them original pieces? A lot of them were original. Uh, we would get- I'm sorry to have my ignorance. No, no, no, of course not. It's not at all.

I, I, uh, it it's it was a really interesting thing because i go through it now before starting any new album now that there's a formula i think to myself how did we find songs and write songs for those first couple of records because what is that formula well the formula now that you've had when you've had success is that people start writing for you so you get cds on your desk or mp3s in your in your mailboxes say you know for josh groban and that's always a tricky thing because sometimes they hit it, you know, because they explore and they go, you know. That's a big deal for you to do a song by them.

It's a big payday for them. Well, it's a payday. So you start to see that they listen to things that were successful and they try to make a copy of a copy of a copy. So you essentially can listen to what's being offered to you to see, you know, what's actually resonated. What's resonated and what's, you know. And so, you know, you're either delighted or you say to yourself,

God, is this what people think or is this what people want? And then you say to yourself, all right, well, don't be lazy. If this isn't what you want to hear, then you must know what you do want to hear. So get off your ass and write. And so that's when I started writing, and I've been writing probably half my albums since album two. That's Closer? Yeah, Closer through All That I Can Plus.

So Closer was the first album that you wrote a few songs on that one yeah exactly and and what were you thinking when you did that um i was thinking well it was it was an amazing door that was open for me i i was very shy about the writing aspect of it uh and i knew it was it was something that i needed to hone but i was thinking to myself i was frustrated because the first album sold five million records and the first album had this all of a sudden people were taking notice and so I was frustrated because the first album sold 5 million records and the first album had this, all of a sudden people were taking notice. And so I was frustrated with the songs that were coming in. I didn't like them. And, uh, and so I, I just decided to work with people that I was a fan of growing up. I went to France and worked with this group called Deep Forest.

I worked with, you know, I did that, you know, song with, with, uh, with Herbie Hancock. You know, I just, I just wanted to work with people that I thought were great. It's a good sound that Herbie Hancock. Oh man. Well, he's, we, that was really fun. He, we had Herbie, we. You know, I just, I just wanted to work with people that I thought were great. It's a good sound that Herbie Hancock. Oh man. Well, he's, we, that was really fun. He,

we had Herbie, we had the tower power horn section. You know, it was just like, that was my first four way and four into like trying to sing with a groove. And sometimes when I, with my voice, a groove can be kind of,

uh, you know, treacherous, but, but that was a case where we really, really loved it. Again, forgive my ignorance.

I've gone into the, the area of, uh, of, of trying to, to frame rock songs in in your style like like paul anka did that album where he covered nirvana oh god yeah i don't know have you done any of that not really uh look some melodies are just universal some some melodies whether they're rock whether they're pop country, are just so great

that you could sing them in any style and they would still be great. Stevie Wonder has a lot of songs like that. I've covered a couple of his songs, but... Which ones?

I did, I believe, when I followed him It's a fucking great song. It's just amazing. Art Garfunkel covered that song. Yeah, he did, yeah. That's the first version I heard of it

was Art Garfunkel. It was Art Garfunkel, yeah. From Breakaway, which is a great record. Yeah, that's an example in itself that the fact that Art and Stevie could be singing the same song. It's just, those songs are modern from breakaway which is a great record that's yeah that's an example in itself that that the fact that art and and stevie could be singing the same song it's just those songs are modern that is fucking that song kills me it's great i love it so and the end of it on stevie's version with those layers of oh absolutely vocals and synthesizers going on and on and on

and there's like a weird like funk ass groove in the middle of this i love that build i like songs that do that it it um you know i so yeah i know i like and this. I love that build. I like songs that do that. It, it, um, you know, I, so yeah, no, I liked it.

And I liked the ones that build like that too. I liked the seven minute Epic, you know, love those tries my label. What do you think was the first, like, Hey Jude sort of built that, that thing,

right? Yeah. I mean, all those bands, I mean, but like, I'm trying to track the first time where, cause like when I was a kid and I first listened to Hey Jude and you're waiting for like,

for, uh, for Paul to, uh, you know, scream, when I was a kid and I first listened to Hey Jude, and you're waiting for, like, for Paul to, you know, scream. Yeah. You know, and then it just starts that, nah. Like, you just want, you just. When the song just takes a turn. Yeah.

To a street you didn't know you wanted to drive down. Yeah. It just, that's the best, you know. Yeah. And I love that, too. And I try to, you know, I try to find those kind of songs. And I try, when I'm making original music, I try to find stuff. You always want to give fans what they want to hear, but I prefer to give them stuff they didn't expect they wanted. Yeah, but when you write your songs, which ones to you are the most personal? I mean, really pushed me to write most of the record. And he said, you know, look,

everyone knows you're a great singer. You know, make these songs from you instead of just being presented by you as a vocalist. So he got me with an amazing writer named Dan Wilson. He was the lead singer of Supersonic. He's got these amazing, amazing solo records as well. And we spent like, you know, six months together in Minneapolis at his house and just wrote a ton. And we would just talk about life and relationships and things that were pissing us off and making us happy. And we would sit at his piano and he had a guitar

and we would just write. And so it was a very kind of bare bones, a very kind of, we talked about that nakedness. It was a very different kind of record for me. What was the orchestration? Was it just you and a piano? Some of it was just me and a piano. Rick was really excited about the opportunity to work with

you know full orchestras you know he had not ever worked with uh more of a traditional style singer like myself so so he you know he had a blast you know at capital records you know listening to the orchestra rehearse around him that to him was just like a a really fun thing and and so you know that was the old capital building the old capital Capitol building. In the old studios. Those walls, man. Yeah. It's, yeah, there's a lot of history there. And so, you know, it was great

because I learned so much from him. It was a master class just from an A&R perspective. From Rick. From Rick, just listening to songs. Like what? I didn't realize at that point the importance of patience. I liked to, you know,

I'm pretty impatient when it comes to making sound and making music. I want to throw the paint on the canvas, see what it sounds like, see what it looks like. And he would say, you know, let's listen to music. Let's listen to like a chorus that you've worked on. Okay, let that sit for three months and still love it. He's of the mindset of let's see if we can try and have hindsight before it's too late. What it means is you're going to spend three years making a record, which my hindsight is I wish it had taken not so long. But it's great.

It's a lot of time thinking about what your sweet spot is and where your core is. And so, yeah, we had a great time. It was something that I'm not sure we would or should do again. But for that album and for that couple of years that we worked together, it was wonderful. How did that album sell in relation to the others? not as well why do you think that is um i think that you know it was in it was a bit of a curveball to my fans and i think that it was marketed as not going to be a curveball which i think was it was was a mistake i think a curveball wasn't that they had not heard that because rick is you know it's almost like you feel like you're in the room he's got a very dry sound you know and everything even if it's a full orchestra it's like a full orchestra

in this radio it's like compressed almost it's compressed it's dry uh and so you know there's a certain there was a certain lushness a certain uh um largeness i think that the fans were were used to and and and a certain style of song too you know when like anytime he asked me to go from uh some of the stuff that that is i guess more of that old school style to let's let's write in a very new school way um you know the fans were were surprised by it as i knew they would be but i i was expecting it to be marketed more towards like this is this is something we've tried and we're doing and and and and, and this is, this is a one thing, you know, and it was marketed like, here's the new record, you know? And so I think it was, it was a little bit, um, we, we certainly weren't shooting for radio or anything like that with this record. But in those songs though, is there a song in your mind that you

wrote that makes you, you know, feel fragile? Yeah. there's a song called Higher Window that was about a really bad breakup. And it was, yeah, that was one that was one of the more emotional writing sessions for sure. Now, have you done any of those songs from that record live in a different production? The live versions of the songs went great. You know, and that's what Rick said, is that we're dealing with a continuity here on this record.

This is the style that I want to make this record sound like but when you're live all rules are off you can add those drums back you can add whatever else and so you know when when boom yeah yeah get that get that gravitas back you know and so of course you know after spending three years in a dry room you get out in front of a live audience again and you just want to add all the bells and whistles and so of course the crowd goes, oh, I didn't know I liked this song. So, you know, you do your thing. But it was interesting, because the combination of the way Rick worked and the combination of going back to the instinct

of how I like to work, I found a nice, happy medium, of, like, there was something to be learned from that. I grew, for sure, working with him, and now it's okay to feel like this is what I do, and this is what I want to do. So, who are your fans? It's a good question. I mean, it's okay to feel like this is what I do and this is what I want to do. So who are your fans? It's a good question.

I mean, it's definitely shifted and gone from a very specific demographic early on, which I think was primarily older and primarily female, to, you know, the great thing about live performance is that you can go out and see who's out there. And I think in the last two or three tours, and i like to walk through the audience sometimes and talk to people and stuff it's it's the whole family which is which is great um tony bennett once told me you know if you can keep it a family show like it's that's great you know get the whole family there and you'll be great you know and uh i'm thrilled for that i'm thrilled that the whole family's there and i'm thrilled when i'm surprised by people you know because i get i get you know

sometimes i get my own sometimes i I throw myself into a box and I'll say, oh, we'll say, I'm going to walk out and see a certain type of person, you know, a thousand times over and I'll see the guy with the Mohawk or whatever. And I'll be like, oh shit. How many times has that happened? Maybe once. But I love telling that story. Enough for this story.

He's there on a dare. Yeah, totally. But even, you know what, I'll take it. I'll take it. You know what? If you walked out of there going, going well that guy's pretty talented i'll take it i don't care how you get there it just uh you know and so you know i yeah no i'm fully aware that that that half the audience was was was either there on a dare or they're being dragged by a significant other my goal is by the end of two hours for them to go you know i was all right you know so yeah well yeah i think that people's opinions are based on you know a lot

of times a lack of investigation or of course mindedness of one kind or another 100 and you know and then all of a sudden you're in that weird position be like i like the guy i'd never tweet about it but i like it yeah yeah it's my guilty pleasure yeah sure sure my little secret i'll take that yeah so but now like when you do the like the thing you did with Jimmy Kimmel, you know, and the singing the Kanye tweets or, you know, whatever you did with Tim and Eric. Right. I mean, is there part of you that thinks like, you know, am I pushing the limit with my fans? Yeah, a little bit.

And part of that's okay with me. I think that, you know, first and foremost, when I'm dealing with comedic stuff, it basically just has to do with, is this funny? Is this going to make me laugh? But also, like I said at the beginning, you're coming from a place where, you know, to most people who probably don't like your music, you are this, you represent that. Right. So to see you do anything outside that character, they're going to be like, oh my God, this kid's a, he's like a funny kid. But I love that stuff.

And I'm perfectly happy to take a pie in the face if it makes somebody laugh. And I think that, you know, if it's intelligently done, there are plenty of times where people want me to do like the, hey, sing like you for this thing. Yeah. And it's just not funny. It's just not, it doesn't serve any purpose. It's just, it's just making fun for making fun sake and it doesn't have any intelligence behind it.

And it might be making fun of you. Yeah, you want to be in on the joke. Right, sure. And so, you know, with the stuff you mentioned, and I just loved all the Tim and Eric stuff and love those guys. But I have to imagine that, you know, if some of your fans did not come around for Illuminations, is that the name of the record? Yeah, yeah. That they're probably not going to come around for Tim and Eric. But it's a different, first of all, it's probably a very different audience.

I've probably got some of my core fans that are kind of looking over at the Tim and Eric thing going, that's kind of silly. Yeah. What's he doing over there? I don't get it. I don't get it. But it's okay. Anyway, back to-

Well, you seem, just from the mild tweet experience I have with a few of your fans, they seem to be very you know very forgiving and and like they're like oh you're a good sport josh they're loving well it's just been them and i for 12 years i mean i've never been a press darling i've never you know been an awards darling so it's it's you know they've had to put up with a lot with me they've we've made some some good moves some wrong moves and they've been by me ever ever since and uh and so you know yeah i think that that they enjoy you know, I really do. It's interesting.

I was afraid that they would kind of look at that stuff and shun me for doing anything that was in any way poking fun at our world or anything like that. But truly, they've got a great sense of humor and they love that stuff. But also, I think there must be the issue of maybe because fans project things onto you. Sure. You represent something to them. Yeah, yeah. And they have you in their heart in the box. Sure.

So the fear of going out of that box or revealing something about yourself that might make them go like, I didn't know he did that. Yeah, but you know what? I think they all have that side of them secretly too. I think we've all got, we all have to have that side a little,

even a little bit. Yeah. I think that've all got, we all have to have that side a little, even a little bit. Yeah. I think that, you know, my point of doing that kind of stuff and again, the fear of will they like it

or not like it is not like, hey, guess what? I've been fooling you. I'm actually this guy. It's, no,

it's, it's, hey, look, I'm both guys, you know, and that's what it is. Is that,

I'm just. Do you have things that you're like, you know, all my fans can never know that. Well, I mean,

you've got to, you've got to have something, you my fans can never know that? Well, I mean, you've got to have some things, you know. I can keep that to myself. I don't know. You know, I'm weird. You know, I think that, you know, but that's fine. I think that, you know, harking back to those days. You've got to have some privacy. You've got to have some privacy.

You've got to have some mystique, you know. I mean, like I'm frankly thrilled that the paparazzi couldn't give two shits about me. I think it's the greatest gift that I could have been given in this business because it just kind of, you know, they don't need to see me picking my nose, you know I mean like I'm frankly thrilled that the paparazzi couldn't give two shits about me I think it's the greatest gift that that I could have been given in this business because it just kind of you know they don't need to see me picking my nose you know it's it's it's fine you know I'm okay with that well that's a that's that's on the very that's a very small transgression yes yes you're picking your nose I think you could you could you could take that hit that's as bad as it gets okay but uh yeah so what do you mean that you don't feel like you've gotten a fair shake from the awards and from the uh this and you've won a grammy haven't you no no uh i i you know

and i and i may be one of those artists that never does you know i mean i'm perfectly happy having my own lane i'm perfectly happy keeping my head down and and and doing my thing sometimes when you're when you're a little bit hard to define uh by the industry or by journalists or whatever then the the reaction to that is to confusion. The first reaction to confusion is negativity. And then it's a little bit head scratching. And then they say, okay, well, we like you, but we don't have any place for you. So frankly, I mean, I don't blame the Grammys, but at the same time,

like I look at all the categories and see what goes into those categories. And I say, there just isn't a category. They're just, I don't know where I would go because if I'm pop, you know, I'm in there with Timberlake and Bieber and all those guys and if I'm classical then I'm in there with, you know,

Placido Domingo and all those guys. There isn't an in-between category. So, there's no place that I could go where I would win. But you want one.

Oh, I mean, sure, of course. You know, it'd be great. But I'm okay, I'm totally okay without one and I'm okay

with, you know, the success, honestly, is fantastic. Was the last record Illuminations? Last record was called All That Echoes. It came out last year. Okay. So that was after, the one after the Rick Rubin record. That was after the Rick Rubin record, yes.

And how'd that record do? It did all right. Yeah? Yeah, it did fine. It did fine. Business is tough, Mark. Business is tough right now. Is it?

Yeah, it's tough right now. Come on. The number one selling records in the country right now are only doing two million now uh you know uh so so back in the day when i was you know i said like i sold five million six million records that was a time when you still could the last of the last window yeah exactly if i said if i sell 700 000 a million records now i view that as a success how much are you touring uh i did 100 shows this last year you know so you know i love touring it's basically you make an album now so you can

get out on the road i mean it's it's fun does your old man go out with you yeah he'll come he'll come out sometimes yeah i love i mean anytime i can bring my parents out to something i'm doing it's all happening in such a such a high pressure world for me that if i can see something through their eyes and i know they're in the audience, uh, it's great. Cause yeah, I go back to those old stories and I just think, yeah, we did it. You knocked it out of the park. Yeah. What's your biggest fear about the future? Well, I think that my biggest fear about the future is the same fear I had 10 years ago, which is that, okay, I'm going to, I'm going to do my thing. And, uh, you, you want to be able to do it well.

I think that the success will come and go. There's always peaks and valleys. And I've certainly experienced peaks and valleys in my own success. But I think for me, my biggest fear is I'll run out of passion. My biggest fear is I'll run out of inspiration. That's a hell of a crossroads. Well, and then if I do, then I'll go do something else. Like what? I don't know. I'm not good enough with my hands to be a veterinarian. I don't know what I would do. When do you think I'll go do something else. Like what?

I don't know. I'm not good enough with my hands to be a veterinarian. When do you think about that? Join the army. I don't know. I don't know what I would do. What do you like doing? Well, I mean, I like comedy. Maybe I would just focus on doing some funny shit.

I don't know. What are your hobbies? I would love to host a show sometime. I loved doing co-hosting work and stuff. Never mind the Buzzcocks in England. I did some stuff live with Kelly here in LA and New York. That's always been fun. Would you like to be a judge on one of those shows?

I don't know. Honestly, I... What do you do for fun, man? I love to fly. I fly airplanes you do yeah i'm almost done with my pilot's license um really having a blast doing that you buy a plane no i haven't bought one but i'm using which is a plane cost uh these planes that i'm flying they're probably like 600 700 grand really yeah they're expensive they're prop planes prop planes yes

single engine four-seater prop planes um oh my god you do that i just i love it it clears my head the best decisions i ever make are within an hour of landing because it focuses you it takes me completely out of the creative side of my brain and puts me into this if you don't pay attention to the numbers here you're going to die and i you know growing up you know very unfocused you know i've i've had add my whole life it's like having this thing where i i have to really focus and really uh dive into something that's totally non-creative you know you have to play by the book um is is is a great workout for my head and it's uh and it's it's great it's freeing you take you know you take off any close calls leave the earth behind

no no close calls thank thank god Have you done any solo flying yet? My first solo flight will be as soon as I get back to New York in about a week. Oh, you're living over there now? I'm about half and half. But I'm training in upstate New York. Oh, so you go up there to a little airfield? Yeah. Well, it's Westchester County Airport.

It's a great airport there, and you can fly. You can either, you know, you turn left and you're over the Hudson. You turn right, you're over Connecticut. So there's a lot of very great options as a student to fly over there. Now, what compelled you? So I had met a couple of guys from Delta who said, hey, we're coming to your show. I was playing an outdoor arena there. And they said, hey, if you want, we train our pilots all night. If you want, come to the Delta headquarters and we've got our flight simulators or these $45 million 747 flight simulators. If you want to come hang out with us, we'll got our flight simulators or these 45 million dollar 747 flight simulators if you want to come hang out with us we'll show you the simulators the moment i finished

my last song i got in the car i didn't even change i went straight to the airport and i i worked with them until five in the morning and i they taught me how to land a 747 and i said this is the cool this is the coolest shit i've ever done in my entire life i got the bug i mean it's pretty cool way to get the bug but like i was like this and i said how how does this translate to small plane flying they're like aerodynamics are the same it's just you're dealing with you know fewer switches

yeah fewer switches yeah exactly right but the you know flying is flying and so he said hey if you were into this you know go take some flying lessons

see if you dig it and you know 40 hours 50 hours later I'm just still passionate about it all right well be careful man yeah thank you

I'm trying you know my mom's okay with it so you know oh good's okay with it. Oh, good. Okay. Well, it was nice talking to you. Great talking to you, too. Thanks for having me in.

That's it. That's our show. I told you he was a good guy. Go to WTFpod.com for all your WTF pod needs. Check the calendar. I'll update it. I know the dates are a little screwy because some of those Oddball Fest tickets haven't gone on sale. They will go on sale.

I will be... Go to WTF pod. Go to the calendar. Because I can't read through it all. I got dates coming up in Lawrence, Kansas, which is close to selling out. St. Louis is sold out. I think I got a date coming up in Denver,

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