WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 511 - Rosanne Cash

Episode Date: July 2, 2014

In the world of country music, the last name Cash holds a lot of weight. Rosanne Cash tells Marc how she paved her way in the music industry, how she bounced back after hitting the wall, and how she learned to cope with the long shadow cast by The Man In Black. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Really? Wait for it. Are we doing this? Really? Wait for it. Are we doing this? Wait for it. Pow! What the fuck? Number two, Dave. And it's also, eh, what the fuck?

What's wrong with me? It's time for WTF. What the fuck? With Mark Maron. All right, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fucking ears?

What the fuck sticks? What the fucksters? What the fucking ears? What the fuck sticks? What the fucksters? What the fuckstables? What the fuckadelics? On the show, Roseanne Cash. Legend. Amazing conversation. I was thrilled.

Boy, what a life. Where did I start adding boy to things? Boy, what a life. That's like a Letterman thing. No, I was thrilled and honored to talk to her and we did cover a lot of stuff so that's coming up uh what about me what about me what about mark what about the mark problem well look folks uh what is happening the last time i talked to you i was in a car driving from bloomington to indianapolis in a panic because i'd been booked on a flight out

of indianapolis that got me to chicago with less than 40 minutes to change planes in chicago airport chicago airport one being one of the i think you would call a classic clusterfuck airports could take a could it's some you could end up running a mile to get to a goddamn flight. And I don't trust regional airports. I mean, I trust them, but they just don't, you're not, things don't run well. If one guy doesn't show up to work, the whole thing's going to go down. Everything's going to be fucked. So I get to Indianapolis airport an hour and a half early.

So I get to Indianapolis Airport an hour and a half early. I upload the intro that I just recorded that you heard on Monday. And I pay five bucks to get some premium Internet speed. And I get that off to New York. So that's in the can. I'm feeling a little peace of mind, a little quiet in my heart. I don't have to worry about that anymore. But I'm still thinking maybe I can get home to do another one just in case that one doesn't sound good I don't know that was that's what that's what my thinking was so I go to the gate where I'm supposed to be boarding because it looks like they're boarding my 145 flight to Chicago but no

they're not that apparently was a plane that they had to deplane that's going to JFK imagine me slowly slowly starting to to boil I'm starting to boil because i'm like this is one of those days i had a bad feeling and some days you go to the airport and for no reason at all you just get fucked if you travel a lot you realize that hey man i've had a good run i got one of those days coming i'm owed one of those days where who knows what's happening but it's fucked and i look out the window and there's some guy that's driving a truck towards a plane to do something he gets out of the truck and waddles to do his job that's always the weird thing is a it's a heavyset guy it was sunday he did not give a fuck that anything moved quickly i don't even know what he's doing he was plugging a

hose into a hole in the ground but there was something about the pace that he was at which made me realize this is the way this is going to go all day whatever that guy has going on inside that's about where we're all at that was my that was my metaphor just going to take his time and bungle through it so then i realized that my plane that i'm supposed to be on is parked out out in the distance and I say the guy can you put me on this plane because I might might be able to connect because I I'm not taking any of you guys from that point I I'm all alone over here and I'm busy we're trying to get this plane off the ground I'm like fine so then I just start to realize that this JFK flight's not

leaving either I'm not going to get out if they park the plane I'm supposed to be on maybe I'll get out by 2 30 and there's no fucking way I can make my connection. Then I just have to surrender to the whims of picking up another flight in Chicago. I was okay with it because I had my driving intro in the can. But then I realized, wait a minute, I can execute my will and I can go back over to that gate and just strut a bit and go, look, man, because some other guy did it. Some other guy made a stink, said, you know, I booked first class on my next flight. Is this how I'm going to be treated? And I overheard him talking to another guy from American. I'm like, yeah, yeah. Is that how he's going to be treated? And I just sort of followed him over there to the gate. So I just

get online with these three guys and I get a ticket and I get on that 1145. So I'm trying to realize that like everything's going to be okay. Eventually I'll get to LA, but I want to get to LA, man. I've been to Lawrence. I've been to St. Louis. I've been to Bloomington. I've been around. I'm ready to go home. So now we land a little early in Chicago, right? We get there and it looks like I might have time to make this thing. We get, we land at 140. So now we're sitting on the runway waiting for a parking space. And I'm like, you gotta be fucking kidding. Who the fuck is in charge of this goddamn airport? Who's in charge of this airline? Can't they run things with any sort of semblance of a schedule?

Do we just assume that everything's going to be fucked up? I might have a shot at making my plane. But, you know, I had to gate check my bag. So I knew I was going to have to wait in the goddamn gateway, you know, online for my bag. So I got gotta factor that in and i know i'm gonna be sprinting through o'hare sprinting like an idiot sweating and breathing heavily with my duffel bag to get to where i'm going god damn it so we finally park and now it's 150 and i get off and i wait and there's three wheelchairs i don't like to be in the position

to to resent wheelchairs i even resent them but i but I'm like, all right, man, this is just, it's that day, dude. These people, you know, they need wheelchairs and you've got to wait till that all happens and then wait for your bag. It's okay. You cannot, in a just world, if you're a moral person, get aggravated that there are three wheelchairs that are in front of you that you have to wait for so i didn't do that instead i got aggravated at everything else surrounding that god i'm getting worked up just talking about it it's like five after two i know they're already boarding so i grab the bag and i start the run i'm you know i'm dodging people i'm you know i'm hustling you know i'm getting mad at people in my way. People sense the urgency. People are stepping aside. People are giving me a free runway to get to my flight. And I run right up to that gate and I get online. They're still boarding.

I'm like, I can't believe I'm going to fucking make it. This is amazing, but I'm full of hate for the situation. Did not want to have this happen. I wait a few people. Then I show the guy my ticket and he looks at me and goes, you got to see the agent about your ticket. And I'm like, what? And also you got to put that duffel bag into the, into the size gauging frame. And I'm like, it'll fit dude. He goes, you're not getting on the plane unless you put it in. Didn't like his attitude. See, I play a trick.

I have a duffel bag. That's pretty soft. So I pack it up pretty good. And it's, it is actually too big to bring on the plane, but it'll squish into the size it needs so now i'm livid i'm sweaty i'm angry even though things are going my way i still held on to the anger because that seems to be what i like to do and i'm trying to fix that so i go what he says yeah you got to put it put your bag in that thing and i'm like it'll fit he goes put it in or you're not getting on the plane so i'm right there in front of everybody waiting to get on this plane. And I smash my duffel bag into that frame angrily and it fit. And I looked at him and I go, does that fit? Okay.

He goes, yeah, that's fine. And then I go to pull my bag out of that frame and the whole frame comes up with it, makes a big noise. And now I'm pulling it up and down and the frame is bouncing up and down. It's a full on tantrum scene being thrown by a man child who is me. And I'm just sort of like, there's no grace in any of it here. I thought I was like vindicated, self-righteously angry for a reason. And now I'm wrestling with the goddamn frame that's got a sign on it.

And it's a disaster. And then some other guy who works at the gate steps over to hold the frame down. I pull my bag out. And I rip it out and I go, fuck this. And he looked at me, the other guy, and he goes, don't handle things with anger. What? Wow. So for me, that means almost everything.

Food, masturbation, situations with other people. Don't handle things with anger. In that heat of that moment, I don't think I could take in the profundity of it. Don't handle things with anger. I already felt embarrassed. I go over to the ticket counter to deal with whatever bullshit that was. You know what? They'd upgraded me. I walked back over to the dude who made me get out of line to go deal with my ticket and smash my bag into the frame. And I go here. And he goes, did you go to see the agent? I'm like, yeah, I did.

It's first class. Still a dick. Still a dick. Then walk onto the plane with my head down and I take my seat in first class and look down the entire time the plane, people on the plane loaded up because of that embarrassing fucking shit fit. I just sat there thinking like, I got to get out there and apologize that guy. But I can't get off the plane now. So I got up in the air and I tweeted to American Airlines to apologize to that guy. And I gave the flight number and the day.

And they said they would take care of it. They would accept it on his behalf. And I thanked them for upgrading me to first class. And I made it home. Ashamed of myself, but happy to be in first class. I was a man child. I'd had a ship fit. I'd thrown a tantrum.

And I got a cookie. Still, I got first class and a cookie. Even though I was a baby. God damn it, man. I gotta stop it, man. I gotta stop it. Just crazy. Just stupid.

Don't handle things with anger. Wow. Don't handle things with anger. Wow. That's a country song. Let's talk to my guest, Roseanne Cash, now. Can we do that together? Let's do that.

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Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Calgary is a city built by innovators. Innovation is in the city's DNA. And it's with this pedigree that bright minds and future thinking problem solvers are tackling some of the world's greatest challenges from right here in Calgary.

From cleaner energy, safe and secure food, efficient movement of goods and people, and better health solutions, Calgary's visionaries are turning heads around the globe. Across all sectors, each and every day. Thank you. I look at the work of musicians and I'm like, oh my God, how are you going to cover all that? Yes, don't. I won't. Don't. Well, we got to talk a little. Yeah. But you just talked to Tavis Smiley and now he's an interview guy. What did he open with?

What did he come up with right out of the gate? What did he come up with out of the gate I can't remember now how'd he break the ice well it was mostly about the record you know so so it was all focused

on the new record pretty much yeah and do you know what number record this is I'm holding it for everyone at home who can't see me I don't know that

I count compilations or best of no you can't I won't count those yeah I don't count those either so then it then I don't know that i count compilations or best of no you can't no i won't count those yeah i don't count those either so then it then i don't know i have to i would have to count them up uh-huh like 15 maybe do you want me to look something like that yes and i noticed on this record that you you wrote a song with your ex-husband yeah so you guys that you get along with your ex-husband yeah well i wrote it with my ex

and my current husband the three of us how does that how does that work we're so involved evolved i mean but there must be it must be more than just evolved because your current husband is is a musician and music producer yeah and your ex-husband is a musician and music producer and songwriter both of them. Okay. So there's got to be some respect there. Yeah, exactly. That's how we were able to do it. We really respect each other.

Right. And there was no contention? There was no weirdness? Not at all. With the boys? No, the boys get along well. They get along very well. Yeah.

In fact, they had written the song first yeah and i overheard it and i asked if i could have it they said no it's for emmy lou oh my god yeah so this way who this was your first your your which husband said both of them john had written the melody rodney had written these lyrics so i waited a year. Amy Lou didn't record it. And I said to Rodney, would you rewrite the lyrics with me of this Civil War ballad? It was in the tradition of Appalachian or Celtic ballad. So we wrote the lyrics together. He came over.

We sat at the kitchen table. Then we finished it by email, put it to John's melody. I mean, there's a nice metaphor in there somewhere. I can't quite sort out what it is, though. With the Civil War backdrop, you mean? Well, yeah. No, I think it's a very complicated metaphor. You know, the two sides have come together.

Right. And I think the only one that loses is Emmylou, if I'm doing the math. So are you friends with Emmylou? Of course. You guys all are friends. look at even the credits on this record it's like chris christopherson's hanging out and you got the trucks kid playing slide guitar trucks kid i like that derrick he's a wizard man he's wicked unbelievable like one of those prop what do you call him a prodigy yeah yeah he's amazing well yeah we all know each other it's like

you do this for 30 something years you run into people at festivals you end up doing shows together you end up being on each other's record it's a small community really yeah i guess of the people that are are on top in a way there's plenty of people running around nashville with cds trying to drive i the years ago when I was in Nashville, some guy, a cab driver gave me his tape. Yeah. Oh yeah.

Yeah. But like Chris Christopherson, you must know him since you like were a kid. Yeah. Is it, is it bizarre? He's like an older brother or an uncle. I love him so much.

And he's like one of the last connections I have to that world, that world. Is he one of the last ones left have to- That world? That world, yeah. Is he one of the last ones left? He is. It's true, right? Yeah. Like Waylon's not alive, right? Waylon's gone.

Willie's around. That's true. Willie's around. Willie is like- He's gonna outlive everybody. He's like the nuclear cockroach. But like when you see Chris, I mean, because he was so specific and it's weird with him. Like he was so, you know, he seemed different than the rest of them in terms of his sensitivity and the way he wrote songs.

He's so deeply sensitive, so self-deprecating. Really? So much so. He's, I mean, I've done shows with Chris and it's kind of well known that he will go out on stage, he will find the guy in the first four rows who's got his arms crossed and glaring at him or falling asleep, and that's the person he'll sing to. Really? Just to torture himself.

I appreciate that. That's like a comic. Like the one guy that's looking at you like, you suck. You're like, you're my guy. You're my guy. You're clearly right. But I'm going to get you. Exactly.

Right. Well, Chris doesn't even go that far. Yeah. He's not even, I'm going to get you. He's just going, okay, this is it. This is what I deserve. This is what I deserve. That is so beautiful.

So, okay. So now this new record, how how like when you approach a record at this point because you're a person i you know i noticed like certainly after um after your marriage ended and you're very candid emotionally in your music so where are you at now with this record i mean what did you achieve? What kind of closure? What were you trying to sort of like get all in? Candidness can be a performance too, you know?

Yes, absolutely. So you're going to tell me that I'm believing an illusion? No, you're not. Okay. You're not. But that thing of people thinking they know you because of your songs and they must all just be pages from a diary, that's not really true. I know.

I learned that lesson with Oddly with Nick Lowe. Yeah. Because he played The Beast in Me, which is one of my favorite songs, which he wrote for your dad. But here I'm thinking, well, Nick must have lived this life. So I'm looking at this guy like, this know, this guy's been through some shit. But he's like, no, I just, I'm a songwriter. That's right.

Yeah. You're not just ripping pages from your journal. You're a songwriter. There's craft to it. That's what annoys me sometimes when people, well, we don't have to go off into that. No, we have plenty of time. You go off into it. What annoys you?

Well, that thing of people trying to force intimacies on you because they think they know you from the songs. Right. And there's craft and 30 years of showing up for work in the songs. Right. Yeah. And they're sometimes completely not about me. Like you just said, Nick said, no, I'm a songwriter. I made that up.

Yeah. Right? I was disappointed, though. I was like, I thought I knew you, man. Maybe he's lying. Maybe he did really live it. He didn't want you to know. Well, that's what you guys can do.

Musicians are able to do that. It's like, man, it's just a song, man. Poetic license. But if you had people that have built relationships with you around your music, like around the idea

that you are representing yourself specifically. Well, I wouldn't allow that. Right. But I mean, fans and you get weird letters. around the idea that you are representing yourself specifically? Well, I wouldn't allow that. Right, but I mean fans and you get weird letters. How do you know you're annoyed is what I'm asking. Okay, annoyed is not the right word. It sparks a self-protective instinct in me when I feel that happening. Because I have a private life that I cherish and I keep private. And it's not all out there on the songs or on the written page.

Yeah. The written page. Sure. Is that the right thing to say? Well, you've written what? Three? You've written a children's book, two short fiction pieces, and a memoir. A memoir.

So the memoir, I think a lot of it's in there, no? Sure. The memoir is true. So the memoir, I think a lot of it's in there, no? Sure. The memoir is true. I mean, I felt a responsibility to be as factual, whatever that means, as I could recall. I mean, and I even called my aunt and my sisters.

Do you remember this this way? But that doesn't mean I didn't reserve things for myself. Sure. But like in memoir writing, did you also ask your aunt and your sisters? I'm like, is it okay if I? Sure. And what's odd is that I asked my aunt if I could write about her parents' history, which was trouble. They were alcoholics.

Which aunt? My mother's sister. And she said yes, and she gave me all the stories. And then when it came out, she was still upset. Yeah, you can't win, man. You cannot win. Yeah, because they're like, oh, well, you love me, so you'll handle this properly and then when you tell the stories they're like why did you do that right well i'm not like that right and then it's a perception issue it is a preserve well everything's

a perception issue what was the hardest thing that that you struggle with uh in terms of putting it in or not putting it in the memoir I didn't struggle with it but I was really determined not to hurt people yeah or to be bitter you know and say how I was wronged and who did it I hate those kind of memoirs bitter is not good bitter is bad for your skin it's just self-pity it is yeah I And also, it makes you look old. Bitterness is not good. I think it hurts your health in all ways. Yeah.

Yeah. But there were not specific stories that you had to really finesse? I mean, what did you cover? You covered it all? My divorce, I had to finesse. Yeah. Because it's divorce. Because clearly, you're going to write songs with the guy, even now.

Yeah. Well, clearly, there's a reason you get divorced. Yeah. And I just didn't want to go into that whole mishigas. Do you find that, because I've been divorced twice, but I don't have any kids. But when you start talking about divorce, even no matter where it's at, that same weird rage, like you can tap right into it. I felt my stomach get tight when I said that.

Yeah. Right? Yeah. It's weird because if someone starts talking to me, I'm like, oh, fuck her. Are you kidding me? like you can tap right into it i felt my stomach get tight when i said that yeah right yeah it's weird because if someone starts talking to me i'm like oh fuck her are you kidding me no i don't feel like that no i truly don't but there yeah there's a like a visceral memory of like why it happened sure why it happened and then the whole process afterwards oh 10 years 10 years real i felt like it took me eight years maybe to really get over it. That was hard. I don't know about you. I'm not sure I'm completely over it now.

Yeah, right. I mean, you're over it, but it's weird with heartbreak. It's like you realize over time that that stuff fades, but it doesn't leave. Yeah. See, this whole notion in pop psychology of closure, I don't believe in that at all. No. Stuff doesn't close. I mean, you can forgive and release the active grief of it.

Sure. But it's still, you just compartmentalize it. Yeah. Well, and it's just something you carry with you. It becomes part of you. Yeah. It's like part of your makeup now. Exactly. And you just just you can't let it have too much space right energy yeah okay we've worked this out but you got it the new guy's good right i love my husband yeah we spend more time together than any couple i know uh-huh and uh

sometimes we look at each other like should we we be doing this? We spend more time together than anybody. But we really like each other. And we play music together. And we write together. And we have a child together. That's amazing. Is that his first child? Yeah, his only.

But he did raise my youngest daughter. But you have three other kids. Four. I got one for free. I gave birth to three more, but I have i mean you have three other kids and then you have this four i got one for free i gave birth to three more but i have my rodney's daughter i consider my daughter and then you you decided like to have another one in your 40s yeah were you scared i was scared i wouldn't be able to do it but once i mean it's so great having a kid in your 40s. Really? Oh, my God. Every single moment is precious. And you already know who you are and what you can do in this world.

And you don't need to be going out to figure it out. It's fine to miss the parties. Right. Right. And you know how to be a mother. Right. And you know how to have a kid. Yeah.

So there's no freaking out. Right. No freak out. And you can make it like, I imagine if you've had four, you're like, well, this one, I think I got it right now. Well, the others were girls and my son is my youngest with John. And I realized I didn't know anything about boys. Really?

You are so different. Yes. I don't know if you know that. I'm completely aware. Every day. I thought it was like, well, you know, you can raise them the same and it works. It's so different. He's so physical.

You know, my girls would like sit with their teapots and their dolls and for hours and tiny play. And he's like destroying everything. And you got to buy trucks and cars. Yeah. And weapons. Weapons. Yeah. How did that feel to buy trucks and cars. Yeah. And weapons. Weapons. Yeah.

How did that feel to buy the first weapon for the kid? You know, I was on the board of an anti-gun violence organization for 10 years. I still work in anti-gun violence. And yet, my son would turn sticks into guns. Got to do it. Got to do it, right? Got to give him the gun. It's just part of being a boy.

Sorry. It's just part of being a boy. Sorry. It's the way it is. And he's never had a son. And like, how is it? I mean, I imagine that the energy of what goes on in parenting has got to do with the parents. I mean, how is he different than Rodney? John? Yeah.

Oh, that is such a dangerous question that I am not even going to touch. Okay. Well, I mean, okay, I'll give you a headline version. Rodney and I, when we were together, could not tell you if we owned a key to open the door of our house. Could not tell you where we owned a key to open the door of our house could not tell you where the post office was i mean it was like we would talk about plato and christopherson's writing for hours but you know we just had no idea you were detached from reality didn't know how to pay bills nothing business managers yeah yeah and john like he's so solid he's so practical you know good jewish husband takes

care of me knows how to fix the boiler whatever it is and he knows how to fix a boiler you got you got uh you know you got a very special one there yeah you're like i was going along with it as a jew i'm like oh that's nice he fixes. Wow. Well, you got a special Jew. All right. Let me rephrase that. He knows when the boiler is broken. And he can call a guy. Call somebody to fix it.

Okay. All right. I was like a Jew fixing a boiler. That's a unique. Well, I don't want to judge. Some guys know how to do that stuff. So you married a Jewish guy. Is he a religious Jewish guy?

No, he's not. Culturally Jewish. Culturally Jewish. That's what he says. That's right. New York Jew. New York Jew. Oh, Jewish. That's what he says. That's right. New York Jew. New York Jew. Oh, good.

Exactly. Fourth generation New York Jew. So it's in him. Yeah. What's his family come from? Did they own a- Russia. Right.

But what was the business in New York? Was it clothing? Was it meat? No. That's so funny. His dad owned a store on West 46th Street, and they sold everything from televisions to toothpaste. Oh, okay. It's kind of like a-

The everything store. Everything store. Yeah, yeah. The chief department store. Yeah. What do you need? Yeah. Well, that's exciting.

It's like you've had three or four lives. I have had three or four lives. I know. It's a trip, man. I was looking over your lives, and it's amazing when people allow themselves to evolve. Do you feel like it was? Do you feel like you've done that? Was that something that naturally happened?

Or how many times did you hit this wall of like, oh, fuck this? I got a lot. Yeah. I mean, don't you have to hit a wall of, oh, fuck this, before you can move on to something else? Hopefully, if you're not going to be bitter. Exactly. Now we're back. That's full circle.

So in this record, when you look at the songs on it, how long was the process of doing The River and the Thread? About a year and a half, year and a half. And what is different? I mean, now you did this with a son. You did this with a new husband who's uh well we've been married 19 years right but have you ever done a record with him oh yeah oh we fell in love making a record he was producing it yeah he was producing it okay this is the first record that we it was a total collaboration he wrote all the music i wrote all

the lyrics except for the one song we wrote with rodney. And we felt like it was a, I mean, at the end I said, you know, we got to put both our pictures on the cover. This is a real collaboration. You did it on the back. He goes, no, just put a small one on the back. Well, so there is sort of closure though that you did a song with both of your husbands.

I mean, that's sort of closure, isn't it? Yeah, and the fact that it was a Civil War ballad and in the chorus it says, let the union be made whole yeah ridiculously metaphorical did you but you didn't know that going in no but wait what were we talking about about making all my lives and making this record well yeah like what you know how what what are the emotions in this one or me you know what where are you at in this one because i listen to it and it all sounds it's very deep it's very deep, it's very mature, but it's

not heavy. Some of it's heavy, but it's not like, oh God, what's going on with her? Well, because, yeah, it's a concept record. I mean, it's a very old-fashioned concept record about the South. All the songs are about the South. They're full of characters and geography. Some blues in here. Yeah.

And more third-person narratives than I've ever written. So that was different. Well, that must be something you had to bring to the table exclusively, because I'm not imagining that John is necessarily... A lyricist, no. Not a lyricist, but you half grew up in the South. No, I didn't. Not at all.

I grew up right here in Southern California. Yeah. I was born in Memphis. At age three, we left there. Not at all. I grew up right here in Southern California. Yeah. I was born in Memphis. At age three, we left there and came to California. But you never went back there? I lived there on and off for about a decade. Right. But I've been in New York for 23 years.

I lived in Europe for a short time. I lived in Los Angeles for a long time. Where's your mother from? San Antonio. From Texas. Yeah. And your father's from where arkansas so that's you know that's they're both southern but see that's the thing when we were

going down south to the delta yeah and we started getting inspired to write these songs and i thought that being born in memphis and the southern connections to my ancestors was just a footnote. And I started to see how deep those connections were. And my extended family is still down there. You know, see the farm where my dad grew up and how medievally hard my grandmother's life was. Yeah. Raised seven children and picked cotton and no electricity in the beginning. You went to the farm. Oh, yeah.

It's still there. Oh, yeah. I'm working with Arkansas State University to restore it. They want to put a music heritage site there. So wait, so it's all broken down? Well, they restored the house. That Johnny grew up in. Yeah, it was a New Deal-era colony.

500 cottages, only 40 left, and his family's was one of the cottages left so we've been restoring that so i was taking a lot of trips to arkansas mississippi alabama my friend in alabama was teaching me to sew and she said that line she said you have to love the thread oh i know it just killed you're like do you don't mind if I write that down? No chance of forgetting that. Well, that's astounding. So this was sort of like the journey to find your deeper self outside of your own issues, in a way. But I didn't know that at the time.

What did you know? I didn't know that at the time. What did you know? At the time, we were just going down, and I was there, and I got very moved by the people I reconnected with, by going to Arkansas and seeing what my own ancestry was, by learning how to sew in Alabama, by driving through Mississippi to go into Robert Johnson's grave. You had to do that. Yeah. So you guys made a list. You had the idea of a concept album, or you didn't? We started writing the songs just from the trips and being inspired.

And then after, like, the second song, John said, there's something here. We could make an album about this. So it wasn't as if we go, okay, we're going to write a record about the South, let's go. It just started. And then we went, oh, this is what's unfolding. Well, it's interesting because the roots of Southern music and sort of like the roots of what you sort of evolved into as an artist, the country music is the country music, but then the blues is the blues. And them coming together is something that happened a little later, like through Appalachia and then the blues is the blues. And, you know, them coming together is something that happened a little later, you know, like through, you know, Appalachia and then the Delta.

But to go to Robert Johnson's and pay those kind of respects, I mean, you're doing deep work in that area. Deep work and deep respect, you know. But it's only like 20 songs, really, or so, right? The Robert Johnson catalog is that one. Oh, he died at 26. Yeah, and the one Library of Congress recordings that everybody sits there and goes,

okay, I'm getting it. I'm getting it. Yeah. Yeah. So what was the feeling of going to that crossroads? Well, that was incredible. And particularly, it was in this churchyard called Little Zion Churchyard. And there's no big sign that says Robert Johnson's grave over here. You know, you just find it.

Right. Which was also kind of a metaphor for all of that area in Mississippi where Hallam Wolf sat on the porch and played the blues. There's no plaques. Charlie Patton. No, you find it. Charlie Patton. There's like one picture of that guy.

Yeah. I went to Jack. I interviewed Jack White, and he's a blues nut. And that was my ticket in. He has that one picture of charlie patten he's got a huge pic it's blown up like it's like six feet by five feet in his office i'm like charlie patten and he's like yep and then we just go yeah that's so cool well that stuff is great man it's great i mean all the juke joints where these guys played you know most of them no longer

exist but dockery farms where they pick cotton and played in the juke joints where these guys played, you know, most of them no longer exist. But Dockery Farms, where they picked cotton and played in the juke joints at night, we went there. We went to William Faulkner's house, met this 90-something-year-old man, Lee McCarty. And I said, did you know William Faulkner? And he said, oh, Bill and Estelle were lovely people. Get out of here. Still one of them around. Still one of them around. Still one of those around. It was so heavy.

Going from that, you know, to Tallahatchie Bridge, to Robert Johnson's grave. I mean, it was kind of like we had to get away and get back to New York and just process it. Well, what compelled you to do Faulkner? John wrote his college thesis on which one Sound and the Fury no I think it was Light and August maybe it was Sound and the Fury that's a tough one yeah you gotta go I guess you know that's a mountain

of intelligence there holy shit he loves Faulkner so that was an experience for John so okay so you go to Robert Johns you go to Juke Joints you go to Arkansas what did you find out about your family that you you had no idea of and then what do you got cousins still or yeah in memphis um well that realization about how hard my grandmother's life was that really hit me i had been to that house as a teenager and it's like when she was alive

yeah i was like oh this is you know and then to go back and it was empty in the empty fields i mean there's that line in the song about her the empty fields the you know the mud and tears and to just think what she went through how she lived and how different my life is. My son's a fifth generation New Yorker and my grandmother was a cotton farmer who raised seven kids with no electricity. Seven kids.

Yeah. Now, how many cousins you got running around? Oh, hundreds. I don't even know all my cousins. Yeah. Are any of the aunts or uncles still around? Yeah. Really?

Two of them, two of them. It's wild, right? right i know did you go eat with them and stuff sure and you know i in middle age you're interested what the thread is like who you come from who your kids come from like if you don't know who you come from they're not going to know who they come from and where they come from and geography i mean i always love maps but geography itself just has such a deep resonance for me like mississippi the personality of mississippi is so haunted yeah it's so haunted the whole south is a trip man it's like you could not put mississippi up by north dakota and it's you know it doesn't work it's so itself there's something about the south like in all its different facets that where i go down there and i've got no family connection to it but it's heavy man it's so heavy it's like and you can't you can't ignore it you can't ignore and you go how did william faulkner youora welty harper lee hallen wolf robert

johnson like how did this happen yeah you know where they all came it's something to do with the mississippi i think in the flood plains yeah you feel it yeah i think so it's also something to do with the you know the the post-slavery world yes of mixing um the the the different histories of people. That's right. Some voluntary, some not so voluntary. Right. And you can't ignore the violence, too, and the ugliness.

It took me a long time as someone who just visits down there not to characterize it that way. Yeah, you can't characterize it that way. You can't generalize. And in fact, on this record, there might have been a temptation to proselytize about that, to go, okay, look, it's not all, this isn't, you know, let go of your stereotypes. We didn't want to do that even. It was just like, let's just point the era where this incredible music came from and to the beauty and strangeness of that.

Right. Yeah, I've talked to, who did I talk to recently? I've talked to a few Southerners. Patterson Hood from the Drive-By Truckers and Jason Isbell. I love Jason. Oh, my God. My God. Yeah, I talked to them on separate days.

I was on a show with Jason. And those guys, well, certainly Patterson has done a lot in his heart and in his mind to try to be proud and reconcile his own past in his own family and the people that were around him with that reputation. And how do you deal with the racism? And he wrote a song about George Wallace to sort of not, it was George Wallace in hell, but he found sympathy. He was able to empathize.

wallace in hell but he found sympathy he was able to empathize do you know i was just talking about this very subject to someone about the burden our generation feels southern southerners the burden they feel to heal yeah the racism and the ugliness and the hatred of past generations i know a lot of people like that well i feel some of that too because in past generations. I know a lot of people like that. And I feel some of that, too, because in past generations in my family, you know, some of it wasn't pretty. My dad was not that way. He did not have hate in him at all. He seemed pretty, like, you know, open-hearted. He was.

In terms of, like, his embracing. I guess, you know, primarily, I don't know much, but, you know, just his sort of encouragement of Dylan and stuff seemed to be like this interest like he was open-minded totally he was ecumenical about everything where do you think that came from i don't know that's the soul of a great artist i think yeah did you ever struggle with that being ecumenical yeah myself no i took a page from his book, you know, I'm curious. Right. And if you're really deeply curious, it's hard to be judgmental, isn't it? Yeah.

Well, I think what you're talking about middle age is sort of interesting because I've been wrestling with the idea of empathy. And, you know, I'm not sure that I have enough of it naturally. And I think that what you're talking about, you know, after you go through a life of, you know, pursuing your own interests and, you know you know in for you I imagine on some level you know just you know a little bit of living in the shadow of a name that you know it's hard to it's hard to really find the space in your heart to do what you did with this record to say like look you know I need to know you know what that life was like

to at this point in your life really be able to empathize with your grandmother yeah i sometimes think i over empathize oh yeah and then it leads to obsession and guilt and you know i think that's called codependency oh god um yeah but in midlife you're right you you take those things seriously and you care, you know, and you care what they leave you, good or bad. It's hard, man. It is hard. Because, you know, like with my own life, you know, I got issues with my dad. Sure.

Don't we all? Yeah. With our parents. I don't know. Some of them, like, I don't know if they're going to get good. I don't know. They may not. Damn it.

Right. You just got to live with it. That's that ache we were talking about initially. The heartache of that. Of acceptance. Acceptance. Right.

No matter how hard it is. I know exactly what you mean. You know, music heals a lot of this for me. That's for sure, man. It really does. John and I, because we play music together,

sometimes I just don't like him. He's just, I'm mad at him. But we have to go do a show. And we go out on stage, and he plays something, and I see his essence. And I go, everything else is just so petty. That's who that human being is. That's why he's on the earth.

Look what he's giving to an audience. I love him. That's great. Yeah. I'm getting choked up. Yeah. Music, it's the greatest healing force in the world. Well, you audience, I love him. That's great. Yeah. I'm getting choked up. Yeah. Music, it's the greatest healing force in the world. Well, you know, it's weird.

It's like, you know, I was just in Cleveland. Did you go to the Hall of Fame? Yeah, the second time. It was my second time there. And did you go look at the movie that they have right at the beginning? There's a movie called Mystery Train where they just follow this train all the way through the history of rock and roll. It's like 12 minutes long.

I don't remember seeing that. Yeah, it's pretty great. And they go from the Delta and they go through all of it, Appalachia. And it's really nicely done. But for some reason, they had the Stones version of Love in Vain as a piece of that. And they had the lyrics come up in subtitles. And, you know, recently in my life, because I play guitar, you know, amateurly, but the power of the blues to ease your heart is so fucking

phenomenal. And when you really, like, as an older guy, when you still have that, where you're like, I need to play a little blues just so i can relax i love that i love that because at this point in our lives yeah sometimes it's so dark that it's beyond the blues so the blues will bring you up bring you back but that's what it did yeah right i mean you got to figure where that music came from was to bring them back from fucking slavery right you know not just heartbreak or this woman done me wrong but i mean that music and that oppression had to like rise above that yeah yeah and we're lucky to get it you know because it's it's still healing

us even today it's true and i don't know that people appreciate it as much as they should that's the weird thing is that blues is one that, it's a type of music that at some point everyone kind of could play okay. Like every bar band could do their version. 12 bar blues. Sure, sure. You know, everyone could pull off a Freddie King tune or whatever. But the cats that can really do it, like can really go there, really feel it.

Because it's simple music. You're going to make it your own. That's the only way the blues works. Like it's three chords. Like, you know, anyone can play it, but can you play it and mean it? own. That's the only way the blues works. Like, it's three chords. Like, you know, anyone can play it, but can you play it and mean it? Yeah. That's the difference.

I always felt just too much of a nice white girl to really be able to do the blues. But you did some blues on here, really? Yeah, it's bluesy, and there's, you know, there's everything from really rootsy, almost Appalachian hardcore to bluesy stuff to even Stephen Foster-'s stuff yeah and that kind of country pop tony joe white stuff it's there's we reference all of that music without mimicking

it um but to do straight blues i would just be so self-conscious i've only seen it's really only a few people that aren't show offs that can like you you know, really nail it. You know, like I once saw John Hammond, you know, do, it was like weird. It was like, I was in Tucson and I was visiting my brother at college and there was some Tucson Blues Society. We're bringing John Hammond out. It was like me and 20 people and just him with a national steel. And he did a full version of Hellhounds on my trail to the note. And I'm like, I'll never forget it.

I don't even understand that song. I didn't realize you were such a blues fan. You're deep into it, aren't you? Yeah, yeah. It's all I play on guitar. I don't listen to it all the time. But lately, I've been, I can't get it. Like, I never quite got Paul Butterfield.

But then I realized those guys were the first guys to really take on the chicago blues as it is yeah and and hammer that shit out interpret it yeah and like i've been like listening to the hell like i've been listening to that a lot what else do you listen to i listen to a lot of stuff um like well i listened to your record about three times and what else did i listen to today I've been listening to like you know it's weird because

I'm in this situation where like I'm going to talk to you and you know I know you're Johnny Cash's daughter and I know that like that doesn't

you know that's not something you want to talk about for the rest of your life in a specific way I understand that I've talked to Jacob Dillon and that's even touchier

I know you know why because he's a man yeah I mean I truly believe that if Because he's a man. Yeah. I mean, I truly believe that if I had been a man, it would be so much harder for me. It's long and deep and it's hard to get out from under. Well, I think the trickiest thing is the mixture of pride and then the lack of identity.

Yeah. Well, like I said, being a woman made it easier for me, but I certainly pushed it all away a long time, 20s into my 30s. Yeah. You know, like I have to find out what I can do well. And there are still plenty of people who just want to try to look through me to see my dad. But my antenna is so good with that, I just shut it down. Well, no one, here's the interesting thing about like you know assumed or or or or some of the feelings that go around nepotism in general is there's no fucking way that anyone can say like she's just riding on you you know because

you're such a defined talent you know after like the fifth album no one's gonna say like oh she's just doing she's got a lucky break they still do say that some people that is ridiculous i know no i mean only you know the psychos on twitter like don't even i know don't even read them right no well don't you it's hard not to read them but certainly don't respond to them no but it hurts like when they push those buttons right yeah and the fact that it's still a button is surprising to me like i'm still trying to prove myself at my age, you know? But aren't, I mean, maybe that's normal for everyone. I don't know if you're still trying to prove yourself, but the insecurity doesn't necessarily go away. No.

And I think that's part of an artist's life. No doubt. Is insecurity. No, because it's that Chris Christopherson thing. It's that part of you is always looking for the negative thing. Like, they're the ones who are right. That's right. I'm a phony.

They're going to find out. I'm not good at it i'll never be i don't know why it's part and parcel my daughter is an artist and she's a really great writer and she was talking to me about this i said honey you're gonna deal with that the rest of your life it's just part of it use it you know yeah well don't yeah don't let it kill you yeah because that that's the same thing that insecurity you know somehow or another if you have a singularity of vision if you know that you got no other choices right like for whatever reason that's the other thing about an artist's life is like you know like all right don't you want to do anything else no i don't know how it's not an option i don't even think about it this is it you know no matter how bad it gets

you like that there is there a plan B? No, there's no plan B. What are you going to do? Quit? Yeah. And do what? Exactly. And then be a quitter because you have to fire yourself.

Like, I quit myself. That's the worst. Oh, that's good. That about sums it up. Right? How do you quit? It's who you are. Exactly.

DNA. Yeah. How do you quit? It's who you are. Exactly. How do you disappear from that? But I mean, you did make a choice at some point to say like, well, I'm going to go into country music. No, I did not say I'm going to go into country music. I said I'm going to be a songwriter. Okay. And then, you know, I grew up in Southern California in the 60s and 70s. And I was listening to Buffalo Springfield and Elton John and Crosby, Stills and Nash and Neil Young and, you know, all the great and Joni Mitchell and great songwriters that really moved me. And you were here.

And I was here. I was here. I didn't care about country music until later. I came back around to it. So how did it start for you? I mean, did you have access to that crew? Were you hanging out up in the canyon and partying with the Crosby, Stills, and Nash? No, I was too young for that.

You were young. Yeah, I was a little on the other side of that. But no, I just loved that music, and I knew I wanted to be a songwriter. And then when I left high school and was with my dad, and he started teaching me some what he thought were essential country songs you went down there to nashville and and you stayed there for a couple years then i moved to london so you stayed with your dad for two years yeah and that's where he was like well he showed you what he could show you yeah i mean he loved all

music too but he didn't want me to not know these other songs. What were the specific songs? Well, like Hank Williams songs and story songs like Battle of New Orleans, Jimmy Rogers, Woody Guthrie, those kind of songs. Didn't he cover it at Long Black Veil? Of course. Jesus, that song kills me. Yeah.

Kills me. Yeah. I listen to the band's version of it, and I tear up every fucking time. I recorded it. kind of didn't he cover a long black veil of course jesus that song kills me yeah kills me yeah i listened to the band's version of it and i tear up every every i recorded it i love the song i think that song is kind of a centerpiece of american roots music it's unbelievable yeah it's an unbelievable song like i just thinking about it gets me choked up i'm not even sure why just the idea of the sacrifice is too much yeah well the central character has integrity that's one thing yes i guess that'll do it yeah he doesn't sell out his uh best friend and it's or his wife or his wife sell the woman out he doesn't sell the woman out and um he could have gotten shot anyways right like if he would have gotten caught the friendship's over and and the guy could have

shot him we're talking about the story of this song. Most people are listening going, what? What? The song is about a guy who looks like a guy who killed somebody. Though he didn't kill the person, he couldn't say where he was because he was having sex with his best friend's wife. That's right. And he wouldn't say it. So he took the rap and he was hung for the murder because he didn't want to out the woman or be. And the judge says to him, if you have an alibi, I'll let you go.

And he won't say it. He won't give an alibi. And she's standing there. Yeah. Watching it. And then he's dead and she visits his grave. This is all in the song. I know.

Yeah. How long ago did you record it? 2009. So later. On the list. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. How long ago did you record it? 2009. So later. On the list, yeah. Wow. Yeah. Did he play that one for you?

Sure. That was on the list. That's why I recorded it. The list of songs that he- That he made for me, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that's when I came back to country music and really took it in.

And learning the Carter family songs, learning these Appalachian songs, that that was really important to me those were the first songs i learned to play on guitar uh-huh and what happened in london um you became big there that was where you broke right not at all i went and i worked at cbs records and i lived you know hand to mouth in london and for six months and i grew up there and i came back and I didn't know what to do. And I came back to Los Angeles and I went to Lee Strasberg Institute for six months. And then I said, I don't want to be an actor. I just want to be a songwriter. And I was avoiding going into the same field as my dad.

I just couldn't see how I could do it. So then I went back to Europe and made a record. And that's what I guess I was thinking about. And that record sort of puts you on the map a little? Well, not really. It did get me signed to an American label. They heard it and they signed me. So then things started. Now, like during that time, though, I mean, who are you talking to? I mean, who are your friends in terms of like well i'm gonna do this you know i'm you know i know it's like crazy but i'm going to be a songwriter i didn't have a lot of friends then to tell you the truth yeah i i was a really solitary person and i didn't confide much i

didn't ask for advice i just uh followed my nose you know, and I really wrestled with it. So when you got the label deal, how did they want to form you? Because, I mean, you were doing some fairly mainstream country stuff. Well, the first record I made, you know, I had a, was the second record I made, I had a pop hit on it. So I was making what they used to call crossover music. It was on the pop charts and the country charts. And I was still falling my nose, you know,

writing songs because I was a hybrid. The influences I had in Southern California, the songs I learned from being with my dad, you know, I was definitely a hybrid artist. But the infrastructure of mainstream country was what it was, right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was different, you know, by 1990, I saw I did not fit in.

That's a long time. I mean, that's like, that's seven albums, man. One, two, three, four, five. Well, the first one, 78, Roseanne Cash. Right and Wrong is 79. 70 or Ache is 81. Somewhere in the Stars is 82. R Cash Right and Wrong is 79 70 or 8 is 81 Somewhere in the Stars is 82 Rhythm and Romance is 85

King's Record Shop is 87 that was it then that was it yeah but that also coincides with your divorce yeah from a guy who works

within country music well I made this King's Record Shop was a huge success I was the first woman to have four number one singles from one album on the country charts from that record. Oh, my God. Yeah, it was huge.

So I had leverage. Right. So I said to Sony, can I produce my own record the next time out? And they said, okay. So I wrote all the songs, and I made this dark little acoustic record called interiors and this is before rick rubin had even the idea exactly and i was i felt like well i've done the best work of my life and they came in and they said we can't do anything with this oh my god it crushed me so um you know long story short they let me go.

They transferred me to New York, the New York division. And then it was nominated for a Grammy in the folk category. Isn't that how that happened? Yeah. In the folk category. Right. So everybody got that that's not what I was doing anymore. But you did it.

How much you got to do? You know, I mean, to have like four hits on a fucking record, like a country record. And I felt so unhappy. But you nailed it. Clearly, it's like, you know, you to have a like four four hits on a fucking record like a country record and i felt so unhappy but you nailed it clearly it's like you know you're your own person you know that world you honored whatever your legacy was enough yeah now how does that coincide with the with the falling apart of your marriage i don't know i'm not objective enough to answer that question. What was... But Interiors came out of that falling apart. Those songs were dark.

And in fact, Robert Criscow in the Village Voice reviewed it, and he said, this is a divorce record. And I wasn't even separated at the time. I went, what? Oh, he woke you up? You're like, oh, maybe it is time. Well, I lived to it. Uh-huh.

Yeah. Oh, my God. So, all right. So, you get the Grammy for Best Folk Record and you realize. Well, I didn't get it. John Prine got it that year. What are you going to do? He deserved it.

Yeah, good for you. He did. Love John. Do you know him? Sure. You guys all know each other. I love that. Oh, my God.

He probably. Oh, okay. All right. We know each other. I love that. Oh, my God. He probably, oh, okay. All right, so now you know that you've consciously followed your heart and turned your back on, you know, all that is that machine. Whose back got turned, though? I don't know. Is that a rhetorical question? Yeah, it is rhetorical because people say that.

You turned your back on it and you left, you know, and you've betrayed. All right, that bad word choice. Yeah. No, no, no. But I've thought about that. And it's like they didn't want the record I made for them, you know, that my hand was forced. I was either going to stay and do music for the label and for radio. And be pushed in and stay in that. Why?

Just to be a machine. And keep doing carbon copies of myself until i just died from unhappiness i couldn't do that and they knew you could make hits so the pressure must have been extraordinary extraordinary right and i could not do it so i just turned my little life inside out you know i'm going to new york i'm going to marry a jew yeah and i'm not going to have any more hits and i'm going to be broke and I'm going to give up my five carat diamond and my big house and that, you know,

I'm going to be having stoop sales to make 80 bucks. Come on, you're doing a little better than that. No, I swear to God, I was a mess. I didn't know how to handle money. I was broke. I moved to New York. My kids, back and forth. It was crazy.

And I didn't have any more hits. It was really hard for a while i'm i wrote a book of short stories i started getting my life together which was well received yeah and you had never you had never written fiction no wow and then i started to get happy like i'm following my true life now oh you seem great i'm good i'm living backwards i'm happy you wrote a children's book too yeah and that did well it did okay yeah my memoir did did okay yeah got some nice reviews now to come back around to well the album you wrote that was inspired by the passing of your stepmom. And my dad and my stepsister.

A lot of people died in that year. There's a couple of pretty heavy songs in there, too. Yeah. Musically, it sounds really great. Who produced that one? That was half produced by Bill Betrell and John Leventhal. It's funny. Bill produced one half and John produced this side B, as we say.

Yeah. Yeah. And did you find that you, did it help you get closure? I don't believe in closure. I know. We talked about that. Yeah. But, I mean, it took you, I mean, your dad was kind of ill for a while.

Yeah. He was. And, you know, I often wonder, is that good preparation? You know, having that anxiety, the background noise of your thought, being your sick parent for a decade? Yeah. I don't think so. I mean, pain is pain. Loss is loss.

But were you always close to him, though? Yeah, I was. Yeah? I was. And your mom as well, right? I had a harder time being close to my mom, to tell you the truth. I mean, you know, mothers and daughters. Yeah.

She was very strict, and she had a lot of fear about my life. She didn't... She'd seen it. Yeah. I can't imagine the period of time she was married to him that it could have been great. Yeah. No, not very long, well right your husband gets on drugs and goes on the road and that's it that's it you leave then somebody else comes along reasonable fear reasonable fear and

she didn't really understand the life of an artist you know that was very confusing and scary to her well in your journey back in doing this record, did you understand why they were together? Yeah, but they were children, 20 and 22 years old. It was what you did. Yeah. Grab on. Hold on. They were deeply in love, but they were also children who didn't have a clue.

Yeah. They were deeply in love, but they were also children who didn't have a clue. Yeah. And what else did you find out about your family when you went down there that surprised you, other than how hard your grandmother worked? Well, my own connection. You know that geography can stay with you. Geography can be inside you.

And my love for it, these crazy characters I know down there who I feel connected to, powerful connection. And that's part of art, isn't it? Like these people who are so out there and strange and live, look to the rest of the world through this prism that just refracts things really weirdly. I love them. I feel connected to them. Yeah. And I finally feel like I've, I hate to use the word integrated because it sounds like therapy, but integrated this part of myself that I had pushed away for a long time. I'm not Southern.

I have nothing to do with it yeah actually part of me really is southern yeah even though i'm a new yorker i i embrace that part now well what do you what do you think the rebellion was all that time because like even like i kind of vaguely remember sort of pictures of you where you're kind of punky for a while yeah and you're like there was that new wave period yeah i mean oh my god the synthesizers right yeah exactly betty davis eyes yeah like everyone like and i imagine that at some different points in your career you know that you always you weren't always with great producers or that people that you thought were doing your vision and injustice. No.

No. But what was the fight against? You thought. I was naturally a rebel. I just, I didn't want what was old, what was entrenched, what was tradition, what was my parents, what was authority. I was just against all of it. Blanket. Right. Blanket rebellion.

Right. And thatet rebellion. Right. And that's an exhausting stance to keep up through adulthood. It is, right? Yeah. It's like, find out who you are and don't rebel against the rest of it. Just let it be. It's over there. Right.

So. So you let it go. So you let it go. It looks ungracious on a middle-aged woman to still be rebelling against people who don't threaten you. Huh. I think I have to tell that to somebody. I think there's someone I know could use that information. Oh, my God. I could have used that information 20 years ago.

Because it's exhausting. It's draining. It's exhausting. It makes you ill. Right. You can move through the world with so much more ease. Now, were you there when your father died? I was.

And what was that like? Are your parents? They're both still alive. Yeah. and what was that like? I mean, it's a shallow question, but they're both still alive. Yeah, only a person whose parents are alive could ask that. It's kind of, it's an innocent question. Okay. Do you have an answer? No.

I mean, someone leaves who holds half of your dna they leave the planet forever that changes you irrevocably and there's a i wrote about this in my memoir i had the strangest feeling That the day he died was okay. Because he would still, that day he was alive, those 24 hours. And I was watching the clock for when it changed over to the next day, when I knew he would be dead forever. And that was the day that was intolerable. Yeah.

Do you feel like he was at peace? I certainly hope so. I didn't share his religious beliefs, so I feel like whatever he believed, I hope that's what he got, because then he would be at peace. Oh, God. That's such an interesting idea. That you have to respect people's faith. Yeah. Even if you don't have it. That's right. And even if you don't believe it, in the end, the best you can hope for is that they get what they believe. Do you know, I kind of believe that, that whatever belief system you set up,

maybe when you die, since energy doesn't die, it just changes form. Maybe you do get what you set up for yourself. I think that's optimistic. It is. And nonjudgmental also. I'm a very optimistic person. Always have been. And all your kids had a relationship with their grandparents.

Yeah. My son, unfortunately, he was four when my dad died, so he doesn't remember. My son has no grandparents anymore. It's kind of sad. But he's got a lot of big sisters. Well, that's good. Yeah. He loves women.

Yeah. He's surrounded by them. Yeah. So now how much do you tour? I mean, do you make a reasonable schedule for yourself? Oh, yeah, because I got a 15-year-old at home, and I like to be there and go to parent-teacher meeting. And like I told you, every moment is precious when you have a child that late in life. Right.

Because you know you miss some things. Yeah, and you know how short childhood is. Right. So we do it reasonably. We do strategic strikes. You know, go out twice a month for several days, a few days, come home. I'm there when he comes home from school. I honestly think I'm with him more than a woman who was a high-powered lawyer.

Probably, yeah. Who has to be gone eight to eight every day. Probably emotionally, too. Well, I'm connected to my kids a deep way. And when you perform, how big is the band you go out with? There are six of us. We just did four nights at San Francisco Jazz. How was it?

Four sold out nights. It was so much fun. I mean, I sometimes feel on stage, I think this could be the last time I ever do this. So I'm going to get out of my own fucking way. And enjoy it. Yeah. Well, not only enjoy it, but be in service of the music.

Just, you know, not let it be about me, but let this huge source of greatness called music, let it exist on this stage. That's amazing. So how much of your catalog do you do i mean like from all of it well you know what we've been doing which has been thrilling is

the first half of the show we perform the album in sequence live because it is a record that has a narrative it's a concept right then we have an intermission and then I do stuff for my catalog. So I saw Lou Reed do that at Radio City about 20 years ago. With which album? Magic and Loss, which is my favorite Lou Reed record. Which is like Black Cadillac. When I was making Black Cadillac,

I started looking around. Are there other records about death? Magic and Loss. Leave it to Lou. So inspiring. So he did the record and sequence live that night, and I was crying the whole concert. I thought, someday I'm going to do that.

Right. And that was the template. Yep. And then he came back and what, did some Saturday Night Live? Yeah, he did some of it. That's right. Did Intermission, came back, did, you know. Walking the Wilds.

Yeah, of course. So what do you do when you do the encore? Well, last night we did, this is so sick. We came out and did Motherless Children as an encore. It's like the crowd is on their feet, you know, and so excited. We come out and do this dark, dark song. But we really rock it. Did you record that?

Yeah. Which album is that? The List. Yeah. I got to get that record. Yeah, you'll like it. Well, I mean, Lucinda did that early on, too. That's a dark song, but we, man, it's so much aggression in how we play it, so that's cool.

So is that the only oldie that you do? Traditional. Yeah, traditional. Well, I do Long Black Veil. Those two? Yeah. Those are good ones, huh? Yeah. And then what ones, huh? Yeah.

And then what do you close with? Well, we close the show with my song Seven Year Egg. That was my biggest hit. And then Motherless is the encore. I don't know. I mean, sometimes I change it up. It's great to be on stage, right? And just watch people play. It is.

I have grown into it. In the beginning, I thought performance was a torture chamber. I thought it was this place that you went to be judged. Yeah, it's punishment. Now you will pay. Right. You've worked hard and now you will be punished it was the chris christopherson school of performance there will be hundreds of people waiting for you to fail on their blackberry with their arms folded falling asleep waiting for you to fail so now i i used it as like a school room really and a place to learn and grow and like i said try to get out of my own way and now i feel so lucky that this is

what i get to do and i don't see it as judgment i don't even see it as all about me i see it as energy exchange oh yeah absolutely it's that's the gift of music there oh yeah it's magic it is it's an honor talking to you rosanna oh it's my my pleasure i thoroughly enjoyed it better than travis better than tavis oh thank god that's our show folks i really enjoyed talking to rosanne uh thank you for listening go to wtfpod.com get the wtf app if you like get some just coffee.coop blah blah blah you know what i'm saying you know what i'm saying man i'm gonna start i'm gonna start start working on my songs. That seems to be what needs to happen.

All right. Boomer lives! It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton. The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday,

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