WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 517 - Denny Tedesco

Episode Date: July 23, 2014

Denny Tedesco has been on a quest to tell a story for 18 years. His father, Tommy Tedesco, was a member of The Wrecking Crew, a group of studio musicians who went unrecognized while recording some of the biggest records in history. Denny tells Marc the story of The Wrecking Crew as well as his own struggle to get the documentary made. Plus, Marc recounts the worst day of his life in a story he has never told before. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Lock the gates! Get almost almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Lock the gates! Alright, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fucking ears? What the fuck nicks? What the fucking dicks? What the fuck minister floors what the fuck knucks this is mark maron this is wtf thank you thank you for coming by thank you for sticking me in your head i appreciate it uh it's a great show today denny tedesco is here denny tedesco how can i explain denny tedesco well he's the son of tommy tedesco tommy tedesco was one of the greatest guitar players in the world one of the great studio musicians one of the great los angeles studio musicians a master and and most people don't know who he is or who the studio musicians he played with are they're known as the wrecking crew andny, Denny has been working on a film, a documentary about his father and those session musicians.

Hal Blaine, the drummer, genius. Glenn Campbell, guitar player. One of dozens, it seems. But he's been working on this film since July 1996. Now, this crew of musicians, this was in the 60s, late 50s, almost up until the 70s, maybe a was in the 60s late 50s almost up until the 70s maybe a little in the 70s can't really remember but this this film has won awards at dozens of festivals but the problem that denny's been having since 1996 is the film has over 500,000 dollars in licensing fees and that scared off potential distributors so so between donations and a

kickstarter campaign tedesco was able to pay off the licensing for the film he now has a finished cut and he's sharing the film with audiences at screenings and festivals as he tries to get it distributed it's like a lifetime journey but uh that being said if you live uh in or around arkansas he'll be showing the film at the Fayetteville Roots Music Festival on August 28th. But you I mean, you this is one of those movies that just blew my mind when he showed it to me. I mean, these guys, this crew of musicians, I mean, who they played behind everyone. the association the beach boys the birds uh the captain and tenille carpenter share the chipmunks nat king cole sam cook the crystals bobby day the defenders richard harris the righteous brothers elvis presley harry nelson wayne newton ricky nelson the monkeys dean martin the mamas and the

papas gary lewis and the playboys jan and dean johnny rivers oh my god the ronettes they worked with phil specter simon and garfunkel they were on mrs robinson frank sinatra nancy sinatra sunny and i mean it is insane the ventures they did the hawaii five o theme it's just crazy and it goes into the whole transition from the uh the sort of jazz pop age into rock and roll and the shift of the focus of the music and how these musicians adjusted to it. It's a brain bending documentary. And it's Denny's life work to honor his father. And he gave me one of his father's solo records, a self-released solo record. It's just amazing.

Just amazing. solo record it's just it's amazing just amazing it's amazing talk about an amazing time about an amazing bunch of musicians that are really like unsung heroes they made the music that that is in you know that some of it is indelible it's in enmeshed in our memories in our in our in our minds forever it was fascinating to me moving on into tonight's episode of marin tonight's episode of marin is called the joke i directed this episode and i came up with the story for this episode i i don't i don't know if you know exactly how tv writing works but we all break stories together me and the crew of writers and then we break them down we figure them out beat by beat and then someone goes and writes it duncan did a great job

with this episode duncan birmingham uh based on the story of uh i go on tv i go on the conan o'brien show i'm doing panel and i'm just talking you know riffing a little bit doing some material and we're just improvising spontaneously and i do a joke and it hits me in that moment that that didn't feel right and then i get off uh the conan and i get home and i realize like i don't know if that was my joke if that line was that my line because it just came out spontaneously during a little conversation but it's really a story of it's one of comedians biggest fears. It's so stigmatized. It's so horrific. The idea of it. It's a real comics episode about me accidentally doing someone else's line on television. is is this happened to me and it's been sort of stuck in my heart for years it was repressed for years the the events of the day that this happened to me it was in 1997 i was doing conan o'brien now at that time i i only did panel we only did uh the sit-down talk stuff. Now, the reason that I remembered this and the reason why the episode exists is because, well, look, quite honestly, I had repressed this memory completely.

And somebody sent me a link or something to a YouTube video of me on Conan. Now, this video was also on my website. All the Conans are there. They're still there. So there's a YouTube video of me in 1997 and the top of it, it says, you know, Mark Maron steals from Bill Hicks. And I'm like, what?

That's ridiculous. And I watched this video and I'm watching it. And as I'm watching it, my guts just start churning and my heart just drops almost out of my ass and it was like a wave of horror as if i were remembering child abuse or molestation it was this repressed memory where i felt just you know filthy and violated and awful and like i had done something horrible or something had been done horrible to me

but all the events of that day came back to me it was it was really one of the worst days of my life it was horrific it was look one thing I've never been accused of in my career and that's being a thief you know I've been on Conan 50 times 50 some odd times I've put out four or five CDs I've been on Conan 50 times, 50 some odd times. I've put out four or five CDs. I've done specials. I am hypervigilant to the point where I barely talk about anything else but myself out of fear of crossing streams. Now, obviously, there's parallel development. There's parallel thinking. You know, shit happens. We're all drawing from the same pool.

But it's every comic's biggest fear to do someone else's joke by accident in any context and it happens but it happened on television and it was one of those things where man like when i saw that youtube thing i was like oh my god and it all came back and i and i haven't been able to even talk about it but we went ahead and based the episode of marin on it i directed it as i said and i had to get it right i had to get the emotions of it right well what happened in the real event was i go to do conan now i talked to the segment producer frank smiley we go over what i'm going to talk about i'm going to do my smoking stuff i'm going to do some other stuff so you kind of lay it out and then i get out there

with conan and i do my shit i'm doing my smoking bit and then i tag it with this line that i improvised yeah and it just came out of my mouth now at that point it was one line you don't want to be one of those people that's you know smoking through a trachea hole saying uh i still enjoy it that was the line you don't want to be one of those people and that motion know smoking through a trachea hole saying uh i still enjoy it that was the line you don't want to be one of those people and that motion is smoking out of a trachea hole you know i still enjoy it i just done my bit about lungs whistling or whatever but i did it and in that moment i felt like oh that i felt something jerk inside me you know so i get done with the set and i get in the limo and i'm driving home and I'm like oh god oh god I don't think

that's my joke now I didn't know whose it was but it just didn't feel right I know it came out of my mouth and I thought I thought of it in that moment but it didn't feel right and I'm in the limo home and I'm like this doesn't fucking feel right and I get home and I'm like I'm almost positive it's not my joke and you know I freak out I'm like that just came out of me it's not my joke. And, you know, I freak out. I'm like, that just came out of me. It's not my joke. So I call Frank Smiley, the segment producer at Conan. And I say, dude, I don't think that one line, the trachea hole thing, I don't think it's my joke. And he's like, yeah, don't worry about it.

I'm like, no, I'm worried about it. I don't know whose joke it is, but it doesn't feel like it's mine. I don't think it's mine. I'm going to do some research. And he's like, don't worry about it. It happens all the time. I'm like, dude, is there any way you can cut it? And he's like, I don't think so.

Let me check. And I'm like, fuck. So I'm spinning around. You know, I'm living in New York City with the woman that became my first wife. And I'm freaking out. I'm screaming. I'm like, I don't know what the fuck I'm going to do. I don't know whose joke it is.

And I start poking around, you know, other guys who did you know who do smoking material now you know obviously I was a Hicks fan but I went out of my way not to uh to listen to him too much because he did have a contagious sort of cadence and I you know I think he was an influence on me but you know at that point he'd been dead for a few years and and you know whatever was embedded in my head what look i'm poking around trying to figure out whose joke it is i come upon the uh hicks record i think i listened to a cd and there's the line and i'm like oh my fucking christ so now i'm freaking out and completely because it was a complete accident it happened in an improvised moment, but it happened. It is what it is.

So I call Frank Smiley up and I'm like, dude, you know, it's a Hicks joke. It's a line that he did. You know, it's one line. Just take it the fuck out. You got to take it out. All right. And he's like, I can't, man. It's too late. And I'm like, God damn it. And I remember hanging up the phone and the woman who became my wife, Kim, is there. And I'm like, I'm fucking finished. And I'm screaming. I'm like, what the fuck just happened? How did this fucking happen? And I'm fucking breaking down.

And I start crying in my fucking living room. I'm crying because of this thing, this accident. I did this line. I'm crying. And I'm like, I have to quit doing comedy. There was nothing I could do. I have to quit doing comedy. She says i could do i have to quit doing comedy she says that's ridiculous i'm like you don't even get it you don't even get what's happened here i fucked up i did some other guy's line she's like so and i'm like you don't get it and i'm and i and i just start crying and i didn't know what to do i didn't know how i was going to go out and you know and

face other comics i didn't know you know i just i could not it was unfathomable the experience of of how deep and how awful and how fucking ashamed i was about that mistake about that accident because i didn't do it in my act it was just stuck in my head somewhere i liked the joke i guess and it popped out you know after my smoking bit wasn't planned and i didn't know what to do and i i just i had to go on with my life but i was you know i was But I was shattered and horrified and guilty. I felt so deeply guilty and ashamed that I did not manage my mind properly. And no one said anything.

And I was just completely ready to be taken down for probably over a year. Just to be sort of like, dude, what'd you do? You stole a joke. I'm like, it just never happened. No one called me on it. And the fact is I didn't steal it. It was genuinely an accident. It wasn't like I was taking chunks of material.

It was just this accident. It was a line that my brain registered as something I liked at one point. And I tagged with it. And there was no putting it back it was fucking horrendous and i've never talked about it and this is the first time i've even talked about it because this episode is on tonight and i wanted you to know that it was based on this horrifying, horrifying event in my life that literally feels worse than any childhood trauma that I may have been through. It feels worse and it still feels horrible that I did that one line by accident in 1997. And I'll tell you after that, hyper know hyper vigilant always hyper vigilant we all are

but the shame is still there and i think that really this tonight's episode it was sort of an attempt to to sort of make it a common experience at least with other comics or an exploration of this fear, exploration of an event that really happened emotionally. But somehow, I'm looking for, I guess, to forgive myself because Jesus Christ,

I've had a hell of a career since then. But it just stuck in there because it was on me. And that's what happened. And that's what happened. And that's what tonight's episode of Marin is based on. It's called The Joke. And it was a very important story for me to tell. And this was a very hard thing for me to talk about.

Even though it's almost 20 years ago, it was one line, but it just, and it was completely an accident, but it just stuck. It stuck in my heart. And it was, I tell you, man, the shame of the mistake is still there. Like I should have, should have been able toilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode

where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. It's a night for the whole family.

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on Saturday, March 9th at 5 p.m. in Rock City at torontorock.com. Fine. fine yeah so Patton reaches out to me and he's like uh Patton Oswalt he's like you gotta talk this guy down to the desk and I'm like I gotta get up to speed man right you know it wasn't like it wasn't uh about you know not wanting to do it it's just i i had such a limited understanding of what the wrecking crew was and i knew it was these two these guys and i know your dad was uh you know uh tommy tedesco and and but i had no real you know you got to put it into context but really just yeah but it came down to just watching the movie and and it's oddly i just watched uh i watched the muscle shoals movie and then i watched your movie because pat buckle sent

it to me but there was this constant flow of you you gotta talk to denny you gotta talk to denny it's like leave me alone all right all right i mean i just got it you know this seems like a big topic i know it's like he's dying he it's his you know it's his bucket wish right right but no but it was sort of like it's they knew it was up my alley. Right. But I mean, to really sort of put it into perspective, you got to watch the fucking movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, absolutely. And the thing is, it's like when Pat was, we were trying to do it as a live screening too.

That's even more fun is when you watch it with a lot of people. But it's just, well, it's interesting to me that just as a kid, you're growing up in this thing. So you grew up in LA with the Valley. Yeah. I'm a Valley kid. And your dad is this... I remember seeing Tommy... Because I play guitar.

So as a kid, I'm buying Guitar Player Magazine. Well, exactly. Right. Right. And Tommy Tedesco was always on the cover. There's always an article about Tommy Tedesco inco in every fucking guitar magazine yeah and he was one of those repeat guys like you know it was hendrix page and you know tommy didesco he was he was always that guy the jazz you know the session dude yeah and they always i remember pictures of

him but i just had no context you know and then you watch this movie and it was funny because i talked to him i can't remember who the hell it was i said i was gonna talk to you uh you know and then you watch this movie and it was funny because i i talked to i can't remember who the hell it was i said i was gonna talk to you uh you know because of the documentary and he says oh jesus did he finish that see that's the problem i'm having that's the thing man i started this 17 years ago my dad my dad was uh you know he basically dad got sick in 95 yeah and you know they gave him like a year. I thought, oh, I better jump on this. Yeah.

And my concern was it was going to be my biggest regret in life is not doing that. Yeah. Telling his story as well as the others. So I started it, and that was 17 years ago. Right, because there's all this video footage that clearly I was like, is this historical footage? This was shot on like Betamax. Three quarter. Yeah. I had three quarter. I had every format except Betamax. Three quarter. Yeah.

I had three quarter. I had every format except IMAX in this film. Yeah. I mean, I was three quarter inch video. I had eight millimeter. But that footage, I bought that eight millimeter footage from the 1950s. My mom shot that. Yeah.

Oh, really? 1952. With you dancing around in those party scenes? No, no. I'm not that old. No. My dad in that band, the first band he ever played with. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's bizarre well well well let's frame it up so you know we sort of we sort of

moved through it i mean when you were a kid you know what did you know about your father i mean like it was he's just a guy that he was a because the interesting thing about the film is that all of them yeah how blaine your father and you know I don't, I don't have the name. K.O.K., Plas Johnson. Yeah, all those guys, they were working for a living.

Yeah. That the, there was no pride invested in the fact that they are on more hit records. Right. Than, than, and we'll go through the list if you have it in the top of your head, that this group of studio musicians was on so many hit records,

you know, from the fifties all the way up through the sixties. Yeah. That no one knew about, but their pride level was sort of like, I don't give a shit. musicians was on so many hit records you know from the 50s all the way up through the 60s that no one knew about but their pride level was sort of like i don't give a shit we were making money exactly exactly you know you you nailed it it's like my dad you know he's coming out you know these guys are now they're in their early 80s so they're coming out of world war ii as teenagers yeah so they're you know depression kids they're my god my dad's getting paid to play guitar yeah you know he was happy as can be yeah you know so you know they were you know you asked me what it was like growing up as a kid you know dad was dad yeah it wasn't a good you know i didn't

see my dad play guitar at home until the 70s really and i'm born in 61 so they had this sort of working class mentality exactly around being a. They all had their cabaret cards and they all were in the union and they would show up for work. So what were, like, because, let's start sort of at the beginning. What record label were they all at? Was it all Capitol? They were different. No, they were all different. Because what happened is, basically the wrecking crew, I mean, it's a term that's loosely used.

These guys got the name much later, but these guys are, let's say, in the rock and roll at the beginning, early 60s, late 50s. Rock and roll is really not a commodity that everybody's really into. Right. They're labels. Yeah. So what they did is, and we only had one track in those recording studios so they would

didn't trust the recording groups to make these things because they didn't want to spend money on studio time right so they would put these studio musicians in to take the place of bands or record with the singers whatever they knock it out so what happened is all these different labels it was after uh the studio system when they used to be, like, certain guys were on contract with, let's say, NBC or whatever. It was after that. Okay. So they're freelancers. As band members.

Whatever you want to call them. Yeah. They're not a set band. Right. That's the thing. But what would a musician be doing under contract for NBC? Orchestras. Right.

You know, the shows. And back then, popular music was orchestras. Yeah. Like, you know, it was coming out of like you know big band exactly and like you know any

TV's starting up at that point too sure right so they had theme music and they had background music and they

but it was always a big group back then like if you were in a band even just for to show up for a dance thing

there was 20 guys yeah yeah so okay so that so that system breaks down so you got all

these freelance musicians around and so the studios or the labels would contract out yeah basically a guy a producer Yeah. Yeah. So, okay, so that system breaks down. So you got all these freelance musicians around. And so the studios or the labels would contract out. Yeah, basically a guy, a producer would get a job. You know, he's like, hey, you got a new, this guy, this act, we're going to go cut a single. So it's all singles business again. But this is back in the days, you know, of Sinatra, Knack and Cole.

Yeah, early 60s, late 50s, right. So there's no real. Well, those guys, I'm sure, had bigger, you know. Bigger bands. But it seemed like early on, your father and the people that were involved in what became known as the Wrecking Crew, you know, pop music was more jazz-based. Exactly, exactly. Now rock and roll's starting to, you know, leak in.

Now what's going on there is how these guys are getting their breaks, because my dad, at six, 1960s, 30, he's still kind of moving into this. Yeah. Rock and roll, the older guys aren't going to take it. Yeah. Not because they're, some of them, yeah,

there's bullshit music to it. It's a pride thing. It's a pride thing, but also it's probably, it could have been non-union. Yeah. It could have been a demo date. Yeah. It could have been, you know, low scale, whatever.

But the new guys, they're going to take a chance, like all of us. We always take that chance on getting the gig. Yeah. Well, once they got the gig, and once they became hits, like Phil Spector hits it's over now they're in their their first chair now in that group right but but also it seemed to me that in listening to them and i don't want to get too ahead of the game was that was that they not they didn't necessarily think they were in no no no no

you never you're right all of us yeah yeah yeah so i thought that was interesting is that well so where did your father come from originally? Niagara Falls, New York. Niagara Falls? Yeah. Have you been there lately? Oh, please. You have people there still?

I hope so. I hope they're still listening. But do you have family still there? Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's rough. It's rough, dude. I performed there recently. That town, the american side of niagara falls it's depressing yeah like i did a joke about it i said you know by the time you get through that town you

hope the falls lives up to what it's supposed to do because you wanted you got to fight the urge to jump over the fucking edge oh no it's it's gotten folks in niagara falls you know i love you but we all know the problem is you know when the in my parents both of them they grew up and they went to niagara falls high school they met in high school my mom and dad uh-huh that was in the 40s it was popping hopping there i mean everything was like boom boom boom the hotels oh yeah and you know and it was like but the problem was the industry uh you know corrupt politicians i mean they're everywhere but these guys were good at it you know they decided to destroy everything downtown we're going to read you know I can't what's

revitalized I can't remember the term well they never rebuilt and then the companies with all these chemical companies just polluted the land I want in but if you look across the river you see Canadian side and it's like hopping it looks like Little Vegas and I've always wanted to do a documentary the honeymoon's over haha you know so but your father was on the GI Bill did he go to war well no no he was he was uh he went he was drafted but they were him and his friends now you got to realize Niagara Falls is a bunch of Italians. And fortunately for them, they got all sent to Niagara Falls. Yeah.

Basically. Yeah. And it was like, not Phil Spector, Phil Silvers. Yeah. They called it, it was just like that. Sergeant Bilko. Sergeant Bilko. Yeah.

I mean, they were just connivers. Anything to get out of work. But it seemed to me that from the documentary that your father came to guitar late in life as well he that was i asked my mom and i were back east a few months ago in buffalo they were honoring him at the museum and i asked her and the first time i said what happened was they went to a prom like a senior prom in college or something they were invited to a prom and my dad went and my mom and someone said to him hey the big band the ralph martiri bands losing their guitar player and someone said i know a guitar player i

recommended you if you want to they said well have them try out after the dance and he tried out and the next thing you know the next day he's driving to new york driving across country and with his big band yeah now and he gets to Dallas. Whose big band was it? It was Ralph Martiri. Okay. He was big at the time. Yeah.

So he's going from Littletown, Niagara Falls. Now he's going cross country. He's doing the Hoagie Carmichael show at the Palladium in Hollywood and doing all this stuff. And then they're going to Dallas. And all of a sudden, he gets fired with the lead singer because Ralph Martiri found someone that could play guitar and sing. So he knocked out a part of his salary.

So my father, being in a small town, you know what it's like is, I don't want to stay here. He went and got my mom and moved to LA. That was that? That was it. What year? 53.

But my question to my mom, I said, did dad work a lot? Was he working clubs and jazz days? She said, no. She says, he had maybe a casual once a couple weeks, maybe twice a month at most. She says, he almost didn't go to the dance because he and his trio got a gig in Pennsylvania for a weekend. And he said, I'm not going to the dance. I got a job.

And she says, you got to go to the dance. I've spent $35 on this dress. So that dress for $35 changed my life. If he didn't show up for that dance, he would never have the chance to be a guitar player. Isn't that bizarre? All right, so he comes out here. Like, you know, I just,

it's like with these type of interviews, like it's such a broad swath of history. So, you know, Tommy D'Adesco, he comes out to LA. So I thought what was great about the documentary is that they were all very clear that at some point everyone was going to come out here. Yeah. This is where music was.

This is where it was done. You know, it was leaving New York, the real building, that shit was over. Yeah. And it was all coming out here. So all the great players were moving. Everyone was moving here to make a break. For the mid-60s, yeah. Yeah.

So these guys, your father, you know, he didn't know any of these guys. No. So when did that start? How does that start? Well, what happens is like, you know, like you guys. Yeah. You start hanging out at the clubs. Right.

You know, you start meeting people and that's what he would do. They would do jam sessions, sit in. You know, at first he thought, oh, just put in a resume for a studio musician. You don't do that. Right. No one gets a job that way. Yeah. And that's what he would do. They would do jam sessions, sit in. At first he thought, oh, just put in a resume for a studio musician. You don't do that. Right. No one gets a job that way and that's what it was.

You just sit in and someone would say, hey man, can you sub for me next week? Like Peggy Lee, for example. Or whoever was, like Howard Roberts gave my dad a break

with Peggy Lee. Howard was a phenomenal jazz guy and he said, hey, can you sub for me? Yeah. Now, my dad's subbing for howard like he was shitting bricks yeah because howard's like the guy the king of chords and you know he's a guitar player's guitar player right so he always told the stories when so when i'm

playing with peggy lee he says i start playing and we're playing in about a minute in she goes hey who are you and thinking oh god i'm i'm in shit yeah and she says i hey, who are you? And thinking, oh, God, I'm in shit. Yeah. And she says, I like him. Because what he was doing is plain simple. Yeah. Because he couldn't play the shit that Howard could do. But it was that kind of, like, you kind of break in. So when he started, so where does he meet, how does this crew come together?

I know they all just work together. They start slowly. I think Phil Spector. Is that where it really started to define itself? Like early on, like he did Peggy Lee sessions. What other sessions did he do? Well, in those days, early 60s, you had the Phil Spector dates.

I mean, the Chipmunks in the late 50s. He did the Chipmunks? Yeah. Yeah. But anything, you know, singers, you know, any singers at the time that were doing, like Bobby Darin. Yeah.

We did Wade Newton, but that's a little later. know don kashane and all that stuff he's on those yeah is he on mac the knife no no i think that's new york okay but like so he was just showing up for these gigs and they put together the band and the contractor puts together the band basically producer says so he's got the producer's got the job. Hey, you know, Bobby Deren hires someone. He hires a contractor and says, okay, you know, he calls Hal

or Earl Palmer or whoever and then, you know, starts putting the rhythm section together and whoever's requesting. Right. And then he just, you know, they all show up.

They don't know who's on the date. Well, but it's interesting because it was all done, you know, by reading and by, you know, by, these were just, you know, go-to guys. They were professional players.

They didn't necessarily operate as a unit. Not at all. But they worked so much, it felt like a unit. But over time, they did develop a rapport. Absolutely. Because you can't have that kind of connection. The bass player, Carol, is her name? Yeah, Carol Kay.

What an interesting fucking person. It was interesting to me that you don't get, you got a little backstory, obviously, your father and of Hal in terms of what ultimately happened to them. But she suggested a past where it's sort of like, where's the rest of that story? Yeah, yeah, exactly. There's some deep shit there.

There is. Phenomenal, the fact that she starts off as a guitar player. But that's it. And also, she as a guitar player. But that's it. And also, she's a woman. Well, that's it. Yeah. And the fact was that also in her story, there were a lot of women musicians in the big band a bit. In the big band, right.

You know, the string players and this and that. But not in those, like you said, the jazz thing. There were some guitar players like Mary Ford and all those people. But in her position as a, well, becomes a bass player, what's extraordinary to me, and this was where I give all of them credit for Carol. Carol's in a, when they, so let's say, if you're going to put a group together,

let's say you got a weak rock and roll band. Right. All right, the first one that goes is going to be either the drummer and the bass player. Right. Because they got to keep the band going. Right, right, right. So for Carol to be in that group, let's say, whatever, to replace someone, she's not there.

She's not a tambourine player. She's not a percussion player. She is driving the band as well as the drummer. Right. And that's where I go, that's why she's there as a musician. They didn't look at her as a woman. They looked at her as a bass player first. Yeah.

So I give them all credit for that. They gave her a lot of shit yeah but she gave it back right and also when she's just riffing like you know when you see like you see like however el tal was you know on drums right you know uh and and then when she picks up a bass and what was that bass line she played that she came up with uh well she came up with uh uh wichita lime in that opening with which is right gorgeous yeah yeah and that they had this this capacity goes on yeah and the beat goes on to improvise you know and they they all sort of knew each other because i realized that with the muscle shoals uh guys too but they were a tighter unit right but you know that the core group with you know how and your father. And Glen Campbell. Glen Campbell.

Leon Russell. Leon Russell. I'm just going to repeat. Yeah, Don Randy. I mean, they're just- Who was that other guitar player, the character? Al Casey? Yeah.

It was Al Casey. Oh, Bill Pittman. Yeah, Bill Pittman. They called him King Salt. Yeah, why? Because he was so... He's salty. Yeah, yeah.

And Hal would say about him was, the greatest, the greatest thing was he didn't like anything. He was a true old guy. Jazz guy. Jazz guy. True old jazz guy that really hated rock and roll. And, you know, he would say shit off camera. He'd be in the studio and he'd open up the music and go, God damn same old shit. And Hal would say, Bill, the mics are on shut up it's like dude

and the thing is he was very honest but unfortunately sometimes too honest yeah you know and you know what you're talking about is no different than the comedians you go to work if they're going to give you the lines yeah all right that's fine do you want me to improvise yeah oh let's improvise first if you don't like, we'll go back to the line. And that's what my dad did. Yeah. He says, I play for smiles. Yeah.

If the, you know, I'm going to give him what I think is right. If he doesn't like it, fine, let's do, do what you think.

Right. Right. It could be wrong. I think it's stupid. Right. But I'll do it. I'm getting paid. It's also fascinating

to just realize that, because this is, it's, it's, it's new to me in the nuances of it. Obviously, I always knew there were studio musicians, but when you really see the Wrecking Crew

or the Muscle Shoals guys, they were the ones that made the hits. Yeah. It wasn't, like, even the Phil Spector stuff. I mean, when you show some of the footage of them working on that, when there's like 50 people in the fucking studio. Yeah.

And they're there, and Phil Spector would work them until they were exhausted. Right, just basically. And some of the guys would get pissy. Yeah. And my father said, I don't give a shit. As long as you keep paying, I'm going to stay here. I love that that's the angle. Because we all have so much invested in the personalities of rock and roll you know like because i grew up with it yeah exactly

so you know you you invest in the personality of the performer the guitar player of like you know like oh that lead this yeah right lead and then all of a sudden you find out like holy shit the beach boys didn't do anything yeah you know they yeah right you know the birds didn't well they well the birds did the they didn't do the first one, Mr. Tambourine Man. Right. And that was, again, that was the culture of rock and, oh, not rock and roll,

but record music and the record business. Right. And what happened there was Terry Melcher, who was Doris Day's son, was the producer and he did whatever.

Also famous in the Manson story. Yeah, yeah. I think where, it was his house. Where Sharon was killed? Yeah, Yeah, yeah. I think where... It was his house. Where Sharon was killed? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so... Is he still around?

No, he passed, which is a... You know, there's a few of those people that I spoke to but never got to before they passed. It was a drag. But he was hired by Columbia to do this group, Birds, and he said, all right, fine, but I'm bringing my guys in. Right.

And they were all pissed off at Birds. He said, well, I'll use Roger McGuinn because he can play guitar and he can sing. So it'll be somewhat of the Birds. And you guys just sing in the background. So all the guys were pissed off. They don't show up. So he's got Hal Blaine on drums, Bill Pittman, King Salt, Leon Russell on piano, and I want to say Larry Nectal was on bass,

and Jerry Cole, another guy. And they knock it out. And like Roger McGuinn said, he said, we did the A side and the B side in three hours. He says, when we did Turn, Turn, Turn with the actual Byrds group, it took 77 takes. Still a number one hit. Yeah.

But it's just. It was efficiency. It's efficiency. But Terry said, if we don't get a hit, we don't get another chance. And if I'm going to go in there, and it's like a budget again. We're back to what it is. It's a reality, a budget.

And my father always said, hey, you got music and you got the music business. Sometimes they mix, not always. Well, your relationship with your father, obviously you had a lot of time with him. Yeah. And you went into uh into movies and television that was your thing but early on as a kid did you go down to the

sessions did you no never i was you know occasionally the earliest session i remember was green acres and the only reason i remember that day it was like one of those that's it and the reason i remember it was because I think it was like five. And we were going on vacation or something. And so we all went to the studio. And we were all going to leave after that. Dad was going to do his gig when we leave. And I just remember Vic Mizzi, the wonderful composer, conducting,

throwing his hands and hips up and all that. And I just remember laughing because that's the funniest thing to see a grown man throw his arms up, not knowing he's conducting. Yeah, yeah. But that was the earliest. But I asked my mom the same question when I said, when you guys were, you know, again, before kids or before us, I said, did dad take you, did you ever go to club dates with mom or with dad? She said, no.

Dad always said a plumber doesn't take his wife to work. that's how it's interesting because they all thought that way yeah they knew they weren't the stars and they knew that they were the the they were the the players and they really looked at it as a as a as an occupation yeah and i mean but occupied they were 40 they knew they were fortunate and they loved what they did. Right. Right. But still, it was this idea, because usually with creative people, as you know and I know, and I think this is indicated in the documentary at the time the business changed, where some

sort of notion of authenticity was needed in order to market the music. And I think you sort of suggest in the documentary that the monkeys were the last bit of that shit. Yeah. That when the controversy around the monkeys being a band or not being a band sort of broke, that the market became different because the kids demanded that their musicians play their instruments.

Yeah, and I think the musicians themselves, it's funny because I interviewed... Mickey? No, I love Mickey. musicians themselves, it's funny because I interviewed... Mickey? No, no, I love Mickey. But Mickey, his point was, he didn't understand the controversy because he felt, I'm an actor. What controversy? It's a TV show.

And he had to take drum lessons just to be passable. Yeah, he was like, so for him it was like, and his point was, if they had put the musicians' names on those records, there would have been no problem.

It would have been fine. Yeah. I think what happened was there was a backlash against the Monkees, not so much from the public, but internally, I think, from the music community of bands that aren't getting a chance. That was what I felt from him. Because now you've got the Monkees being forced down

record stores' throats. You've got to put this up on the, you're taking shelf space away from someone. So now they get this huge thing, the train driving in to call the Monkees TV show. Right. Nobody else has that. Yeah. Can you imagine? I mean.

Yeah. Right. So some artists felt ripped off. Yeah. In the way of like, sort of like why they get in the shot. Exactly. Yeah. Well, it's interesting too that in being sort of someone who doesn't live in that business

and noticing this in your documentary and also the Muscle Shoals documentary is that you had these producers, you had these guys who were A&R guys, you had these studio execs that were like, when you talk about hits, my brain doesn't even work that way. It's like, well, that's a great album. And I know what a hit is, but really on the business side of it is like we need at least two hits on this record right like they knew which ones were going to be the hits and it's almost like the rest of the album was like we'll see what happens yeah but if we get one hit and when there's only like four labels in the world and they had all the radio stations that was millions and millions of dollars right so those

guys you know some of them had a sense of it. You know, you got Clive Davis, you got Jerry Wexler, you got the, you know, some of the guys that your old man worked with. Yeah. But these guys were hit makers

from that end. They didn't, they weren't musicians. No. But their sensibility was like, this is it. And they knew what, they knew how to market.

Uh-huh. And they knew how to, you know, and that's the thing is you go, and people, you know, you compare the business now to then, and you can't compare.

It's like apples and oranges. Those days, like you said something, there were only a few radio stations. Right. And you look back when we were growing up, you go 50 years back in terms of, let's say, 65. You go 50 years back in terms of music. There's nothing recorded that we could say that we're listening to as kids. You go now, our kids are listening to the Beach Boys from 50s, 60s, all the way up to now.

That's a lot of material. Yep. And for a hit to make it now is almost impossible compared to those days because you had limited music, limited output in terms of outlets. Right, right. And also, it was in terms of outlets. Right, right. And also it was like, it was huge money, dude. I mean, even like, you know, with the ASCAP, you know,

coming back and the publishing and stuff that like, it always fascinates me because I got a buddy who's in the music business that, you know, the amount of money that could be made, you know, for different people in that world was astounding.

Yeah. It seems like it was Phil Spector, the Beach Boys, that could be made for different people in that world was astounding. It seems like it was Phil Spector, the Beach Boys, the Birds a bit. Jan and Dean. Yeah, Jan and Dean then Glenn Campbell as a guitar player

and as part of the crew and then his solo career and then you get into Mamas and Papas, that folk thing. And oh, the Herb Albert thing. That was the thing, that Herb.

That Herb was fucking huge. Huge. That wholeas, that folk thing. And oh, the Herb Albert thing. That was the thing. Oh, yeah, Herb. That Herb was fucking huge. Huge. That whole world of that instrumental thing, that type of pop music, which is almost not around anymore. But he went on to become a huge... He owned a label, didn't he? Yeah, A&M.

Him and Jerry Moss started A&M. And your dad was part of that whole thing. Yeah, they were... It's the one single. What was it? Ba-ba- Yeah, they were, you know, it's the, you know, one single. What was it? Well, the first, yeah, that's. I always get these all mixed up. Your Taste of Honey.

Taste of Honey. Yeah. Then there's Spanish Flea and then there was Lonely Bull. Those were huge. Huge. Not in my life. Right. younger right but now so when you're sort of assessing this like you know at what stage in your career and in your life did it become sort of this this this thing this this you i mean it seems to me that with this documentary despite the fact that you're working on the production and everything else, that this was a project of the heart and you felt-

Labor of love. Labor of love. I love that. Yeah. Labor of love, which means it's such a wonderful line because it means no one else helped. That's what it means. But also your compulsion was, what were your feelings about your father at the time when you decided? That's a great question.

It's very interesting because, you know, people think, oh, yeah, you must have been really close to your father. We were very close, but we fought like motherfuckers. You know, like any father, son. Anything. Anything. It could have been music. It could have been. He would push my button like no one

like a father would you the oldest no i have an older brother uh-huh but did he get off the hook that guy uh yeah kind of because he was you know 10 years out and that's another story but we were so close but he knew um as a father son we were each other's greatest heroes and also greatest critics he couldn't have been judgmental of your career choice. No, no, not at all. Very supportive. Very, very supportive. It was petty bullshit.

So when he was sick... What happened? He had lung cancer. Yeah. But if you look in the film, every picture, there's a cigarette. Yeah, sure. When you're a guitar player

and you have a bad reputation of being a smoker, you know you're bad. They knew where Tommy was here, right? Because the studio was filled with guitar butts. He would constantly, three packs a day, cigarette. He didn't drink. He didn't do drugs.

He didn't like that because he didn't like being out of control. He was a freak. And I asked my mom about that too. And she said, well, dad was always paranoid about um getting arrested and being he had claustrophobia so his biggest fear in life was going to be in god help him in a jail cell yeah yeah so he would never drink and drive yeah it was freaky he didn't drink at all he drank when he got home or drink here and there but not you know yeah um but it was but when he when he got sick i thought all right that's it bullshit done you know more you know no more uh fighting on your side on my side yeah well even

him i think we all came to you know and i had done a uh a project small project with a buddy of mine about him which is where that footage of him in the seminar, that's where that's from, in the early 80s, at Musicians Institute, and Zappa comes from that. That Zappa bit's great. And that Zappa line, for those, might as well spill it here, is the Zappa line, I took him the piece of my dad in the gong show.

Yeah. My dad was in the gong show. In a dress, after his career was over. Right, so what that came about was a running gag in town that Tommy would do this thing called Requiem for a Studio Guitar Player. Yeah. And he did it when he was,

every year was winning the Neres Award for guitar player. And then all of a sudden Larry Carlton won. So when they gave Larry the award, he did a skit with Larry who said, you know, in the 50s I was something, 60s I was a king, 70s rolled around, I'll do just about anything. So I went to Zappa with that piece. And I thought Zappa was going to be like, you know, funny.

Zappa's not funny. He's not. He's intense. Serious dude. And I didn't realize that because I didn't obviously know Zappa. But when he said those lines, what he gave me, it was, oh, it was whatever. It was not good.

But 30 years later, it was like Frank was giving that to me for 30 years later. What was the line again? Do you remember? He said, basically, he says, you know what? Tommy's put up with a lot of shit in this business, so look past the costume and think about it, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Whatever it was, it was kind of like the end of a career even though it wasn't really the end of my dad's career because he went on for another 20 years doing movies and stuff but it fit perfectly

yeah yeah and it was weird because it was this one it was like like a minute yeah it's like 30

if that I didn't know but you shot that because I couldn't tell where that was from I was like did he just you picked that up

it was just you saw him out and you went up to the house or what yeah i went to frank's house where it was on benedict or whatever it was and still there yeah it's still there right yeah yeah and in that basement studio yeah and i remember going in there and frank was like uh is your dad coming um because he was very shy frank he was very quiet i said uh sure and let me call him make sure he's on his way because he wasn't coming so i said He was very quiet. I said, sure, and let me call him, make sure he's on his way because he wasn't coming. So I said,

Dad, you got to get out of here now. Uh-huh. You know, it was before cell phones. Uh-huh. And so we waited and Frank's like

working in the studio with like two notes on back and forth with reel to reel. And I'm going, what the hell is he doing? Yeah, yeah. You know.

Yeah. He was intense. Yeah. So Tommy showed up. Yeah. And they were good friends. They were. They were actually very,

I have a great bootleg tape. When I say bootleg, it was something that was recorded in a little Sylmar, California. My dad would do this jam session, like once every Wednesday would be guitar night. Out in the desert?

No, no. Sylmar? Sylmar, yeah, the valley. It was his friend had an Italian restaurant, so he would go there, he'd bring guys in. Yeah.

You know, sometimes it was Joe Pass. Sometimes it was Steve Lukath or whoever was playing or that guy. Yeah. So one night it was Joe Pass and Frank Zappa and himself. They just came together and Frank playing jazz. He was a monster guitar player, dude. Zappa was. Yeah.

But he wasn't a jazz player compared to Joe Pass. Sure, sure. And so Joe's like, oh, what the fuck? But it was good. The relationship, again, it's... They respected each other as musicians. Exactly. Because Frank was a bit of a control freak.

Right, and my father respected Frank. He did the Lumpy Gravy album. He did. Yeah, and that was the first time he met Frank. Well, the first time he knew he met Frank. Frank brought him in as a session player. Yeah. And Frank brought everybody in, and there's a great outtake of Emil Richards,

a great vibe he's talking about. Everybody thought, what is this guy doing? And then my father looked at the music and was, holy shit. Yeah. Because it was going to be hard. It wasn't bullshit. So he had to, you know, it's like, because my dad comes dressed up as a Boy Scout. Right.

And he's going to, you know. He'd be a clown. Clown. And it's like, oh, great. Wrong day. He's like, because my dad comes dressed up as a Boy Scout. Right. And he's going to, you know. He'd be a clown. Clown. And he's like, oh, great. Wrong day. He's like, I got to learn something. Yeah. You know, so that's what he had to do.

He was a constant joker and that one backfired. Yeah, yeah. He thought, like, you're going to walk through this. Yeah. And Frank had the notes, like. No. Exactly. Yeah.

And him and Emil Richards of Vibus, they had a contest like who's gonna get through this faster let's speed it up and they kept going well it's interesting when you when you listen to some of that zappa stuff how like elaborate and beyond structure it necessarily was but you know it was orchestrated to the note absolutely and that's where the fight was started was like from a french horn player or something it was like this is a bunch of shit and then amal said you know just try playing it let's's go. Yeah. You know. And what was the feeling?

Did they feel that the piece was, like, astounding? No, I don't think one way or another. Oh, really? You know what? Again, tough gig. Yeah, it's one of those, like, you know, it's not my dad's cup of tea. He doesn't give a shit. But they remained friends.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because of respect. Yeah. And I think that you're Italian. Yeah, and they were both non-bullshitters. Yeah. They didn't bullshit. But your feeling was that when your father got sick.

I wanted to make sure. I think maybe deep down, maybe I didn't want him to go. Sure, of course. Maybe that's why he just kept going. Maybe that's why I haven't finished this doc. You don't consider it finished, yet it's out. No, here's what we should make sure everybody knows it's not out it's not out by the way i got it it looked like

no no no no what's happened was all right so 1996 i start this i like to say 17 years ago 17 years younger and uh 35 pounds lighter uh-huh basically I started in 96, Dad got sick. He passes away in 97. And right after he passed, I put together a nice 14-minute teaser reel. I got Nancy Sinatra. I got Cher in it at this point. I got everybody going.

But no one would touch this damn thing because the music. And they all said... The licensing. The licensing. They said, you got... Oh, my God, I didn't even think about that. No, yeah.

At that point, now the film's got 120 songs in it. And what, 90 of them are hits? Yeah. Oh no, yeah, yeah. 98% exactly. Yeah. So I kept going to everybody, I said, you're never going to get the labels

and the publishers to agree on this. It's impossible. Yeah. Well, I had to keep shooting and go on and carry on. You have to have the music. Right. You can't tell the story without it. Right. So you could talk about it. yeah well i had to keep shooting and go on and carry on you have to have the music right you can't tell the story without it right so i you know you could talk about it was it was going to be a shit documentary right so i kept going and no one would ever jump in finally in 2006 i always

talk about crossing that line where you went too far and um my wife thought we just made the most expensive home movie ever yeah you know it was like, you know. How much are you into it for? Oh, at that point, a couple hundred thousand. Yeah. You know, and now, God, I don't even, I cringe. Because I look at, you know, it's my house. Yeah.

And so we said, all right, let's make the one jump. Let's go for it. We got to get an editor, producer slash. And so I got Claire Scanlon, who was my editor. And we cut this thing. In 2008, we got into the film festivals, did it remarkably well,

excuse me, easy for us, I could say, but won a lot of awards and no one would touch it. Couldn't distribute it. I couldn't show it. I could show it

but I paid for the festival use. So then no one would touch it and then one of the labels, a publisher says, Denny, you got to renegotiate. Let's do it again. Let's get it lowered. Try to get it because no one's going to touch it. So I went back. Everybody came on.

There was one maybe putz that was giving me a problem. The publisher? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But everybody else was cool. They were like, yeah. Everybody's really into it.

And then I had to go back, renegotiate, took two years to get everybody signed off on this. To just give it to you? No, no, no, I'm paying. Oh, really? Oh, yeah, I'm still paying. I'm not asking for free.

Yeah, I love for free but no, no, no, I'm still paying. I just needed to come back at a more, because I have 100 and everybody's on Most Favorite Nation so if one guy's going to be a jerk, then I got to pay everybody.

But see, this is what baffles me about that is that this is a historical document of music and their business. And if anything,

would sell some records. Yeah, I know. I agree with you. In my mind, it's like, I'm going to go revisit Glen Campbell. I never bought

Glen Campbell in my life. And now I got to listen to Glen Campbell. I know. I in my mind it's like I'm gonna go revisit Glen Campbell I never bought Glen Campbell in my life and now like I gotta listen to Glen Campbell I know I've done that but then a lot of people do it no because the guy I'm dealing with is the guy that barely has a job still in this business oh right you know he's a department that's sort of like give him that job in the publishing or he might be the licensing guy but that person he or she you know I call back four months later they're gone're gone because they've cut loose. So it's been that kind of a... Right.

So once I get everybody signed, and I've been paying as we go along. So I have, people were making donations through IDA and I would do these fundraising screenings. And sooner or later, I paid it off. Yeah. And the last one was Kickstarter, which was a couple months ago. It was one huge bill. Yeah. I needed, which was the Musicians Union.

Yeah. And I needed to pay these contracts. And I wanted to pay those contracts. What for? For what? Because they call it reuse. Yeah. If you're going to use these songs in a movie, you got to pay the musicians again, which

is fine. So you got to pay the licensing fee for the publishing. Masters of Publishing and the Musicians Union. Okay. This is one of the biggest Musicians Union contracts ever, any film, because there's over... So they didn't want... 120 hit songs.

As much as they wanted, you know, they gave me a great deal, but as much as they wanted, you know, the money, no one wanted to do the work. So that was a long negotiation, whatever. But we got Kickstarter finally came in. I had to go, I needed like 350,000 to really do everything. And I reached for 250 and got 300. So we paid off the Musicians Union.

I have a few more songs now. Now I'm hoping to God as we, you know. You added a few songs? No, we've paid off paid we only have a few more songs i did actually add a couple more since you've seen it yeah don't tell anybody okay i'm paying for it just don't tell my wife yeah yeah um but what i had to do is basically i still pay now i've only got maybe four songs left to pay and i'm done i'm free 100 own this thing outright holy shit so i i played by the rules i did not

you know i've not released this film and your father would have appreciated that absolutely he was a union guy he got it you know what pissed me off yeah and i want to say it now is uh my dad did a lot of jazz albums yeah it was not a lot i mean did whatever his own personal jazz albums and he was said they sold 25 albums maybe all together yeah um so one of the labels and i won't mention names okay you can figure it out sooner or later i had a bill of six thousand dollars a bill of seventy five hundred dollars yeah and i see your dad's music no no no no for a bunch of music from this one label and went well i have six thousand in the bank i'm gonna pay them six thousand i said wait three of those songs you guys have in your catalog from my dad's own

personal jazz albums uh-huh now again you got to realize you don't know my dad's out my music yeah my mom couldn't probably identify those songs yeah you know unless you're Tommy Tedesco jazz freak yeah maybe yeah hear it in the background and I said do you mind if i get that gratis yeah that record guy tore my tore me up upside down as if i just insulted his mother yeah and that's when i lost respect for that guy yeah because that was the one i was like dude you could have given me that yeah you know fine here here's,500 for my dad's music. Yeah. You know, yes, you know, he wrote the songs. Yes, it's an album that you didn't even know you had.

Right. You know, but that's the only time I lost respect for, you know. I mean, Herb Alpert's been phenomenal. They've all been phenomenal. I mean, the labels have been, you know, listen, it's hard because I'm not asking and giving them a lot of money, so I'm on the back burner. There's a licensing fee. a licensing fee yes so all right so why don't we go through be you know just be because you know i i don't know if you you have it at the top of your head or if i could

find it necessarily but you know starting with as far back as you remember you know either songs or albums that you had a license for this thing? Oh, God. All right. Well, Beach Boys, Good Vibrations. And they were on the Pet Sound, the whole Pet Sound album. Yeah, the whole Pet Sound was basically them because that's when Brian was doing his own thing. There's some fascinating stuff in the doc about that. Yeah, yeah. See, Brian, the thing is, Brian, you know,

and I actually interviewed Dean Torrance with Jan and Dean last month, and he told me how that all came about yeah he said what happened was Jan and Dean were doing their thing yeah

Brian Wilson or the Beach Boys were their opening act like on this one of those you know the rock and roll tours yeah so they were doing like

they were like the house band in a sense and they would play with all these acts coming through the Beach Boys the Beach Boys yeah

so Jan and Dean did their thing which was a doo-wop thing yeah and then they came short on time or whatever and then they had to go back out, and Jan and Dean started singing Beach Boys songs with the guys. Yeah.

So they had a relationship. Right. All of a sudden, Brian gives them, I can't remember the song, Surfing Safari, not Surfing Safari, whatever it was, and Jan and Dean has this huge hit with it, one of Brian's songs. Brian sees, he walks into the studio and sees all these studio musicians and Jan says, Brian, you could do this.

You just hire these guys. They just come and they show up and they do your music and you walk away. You don't have to have the brothers and all that do it all. And so Brian was like, yeah. And so it was easier for Brian to deal with musicians than then probably family and also to

execute his vision exactly yeah because like you know when they were talking about brian all of them you know the carol and your father it seemed that they were like this kid had something yeah and they didn't know what but it was like he's got something that's different but his arrangements defied their their their sort of understanding a little bit. And I don't think they knew that until after they heard it. And that was the weird thing. It's not like... Who was talking about that good vibration? Was it Glenn Campbell?

Glenn Campbell. When he first heard it, he said, wow. What the... Because it was all pieced together. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Brian was piecing it together. And he heard good vibrations on the car radio and he's like, oh my God. I had no idea.

And Liam Russell, in the interview I did with him recently, he said, Brian would, he's, and Leon Russell's saying he's the great, saying Brian Wilson's one of the greatest guys, greatest composers ever. And that's coming from Leon. And Leon said he would go around the room and tell each guy what he wanted to play. And he said by the time he got back to the beginning, the first guy forgot it, but he'd tell him again. Yeah. he had his shit together right right right and it was really cool you know leon's praise and you know brian all right so all that beach boy stuff

now the phil specter stuff is another whole catalog of stuff that your dad and those guys and that was then i had to deal with that over the years because then phil you know before he got in trouble well this is don't this is way before he got in trouble. Yeah. To get Phil's stuff was going to be hard in itself, but then all of a sudden Phil kills the girl. Yeah. Now it's like, great.

No, there's nothing. There's no. So he had possession of his whole catalog. Yeah. Okay. So, and I was always trying to get. Holy shit. So he's still making a fortune.

Well, he sold a lot of it off to pay for the bills yeah but uh he um i was trying to get a hold of you know i was trying to get phil for years to talk to you yeah i mean before all this shit yeah you know and phil was very you know instrumental yeah you know and these guys you know well that you know you know what was interesting about that is it seemed that to fill that all these guys who come from a big band background or a jazz bow background were now involved in an orchestral sort of setting that was completely unique to them. They all had experience with sitting on a bandstand with 20 guys or 15 guys or however many.

But now there's 30 guys in a room and they're doing popular rock music so that that you know i i just it's i guess it's hard to really because you know they just thought of it as any other music another gig right but i mean but at some point it'd be interesting to know because i know that even when they talked about it your father and whoever was talking about you like this guy was running us it was really about the time and the exhaustion right and whether they were getting it right or you know and one guy i guess uh which guitar howard roberts howard roberts was like fuck this yeah and that was because uh which is interesting because phil was a frustrated guitar player he wanted to be a jazz guitar player oh really that's why he surrounds himself with howard roberts my father barney kessel uh billman, they're all jazz guitar players in this group,

in a sense. And so when, and Howard Roberts actually was teaching Phil. Yeah. So now all of a sudden, Phil's telling Howard, the greatest jazz guitar player around, to how to play.

Howard said, fuck you, I'm done. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And walked. Yeah. And then the other guys were like, that's kind of, well, you don't want to lose our gig. Just keep going, you know. But it's interesting, you don were like, that's kind of, well, I don't want to lose our gig. Just keep going. But it's interesting.

You don't get any sense from any of the people that, because I didn't see it in the documentary either, that they were such sort of like kind of working class people who had a job that they loved. But you don't get it. There was a couple of moments, I think, with Carol and Brian Wilson where you get this sense like, wow, we were really part of something amazing. Only only after years later uh-huh only after you like i said i asked all of them i said was there any intimidation where you you know by these artists and this no the only not intimidation but the time you're ever going to be right on is when you go get that call for sinatra yeah because you realize everybody these guys are working for,

Brian and all these other guys, they're kids. Yeah. They're nobody. They're not hit makers yet. No one's a hit maker. Well, I mean, before Pet Sounds, they'd had a couple. Yeah, but it's not really. It was like bubblegum.

Bubblegum music. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But when you get a call for Sinatra, that's when you call them back to Niagara Falls and say, Mom, I'm playing with Frank. You know, the Gambino family back there is excited for you. But, you know, that kind of like, that was the only time they were like, okay. Yeah.

But, you know, like my father said, he said, listen, I might have, you know, someone said, don't you think you should have been paid more for, let's say, adding your arrangements or this and that or those notes and da, da, da? He said, no. He said, you know, I go to work. He says, don't forget, I made hundreds of hits, but I made thousands of bombs. Yeah. He says, I never gave anybody their money back on a bomb.

Right, right, right. It's just what it is. But really that question is, don't you think you should have been cut into the publishing money? No, because I think they tried at some some point but i think it's like one of those things where what are you gonna do hold back on creativity you know you're not gonna give that line because you think it's a great line in your act you know what i mean because you're giving it to the other guy you know yeah yeah yeah it's all you artists are you know they're working together hopefully what was this that the riff was that was that the howard thing was uh was that spanish

riff was that no that's my dad's right well what was that song what song was that from oh he used to do uh he the gag was my dad oh no not the gag but there was like there was a guitar part who was talking about oh oh that was um uh gary lewis and the playboys yeah gary lewis and the playboy right that's you're gonna love you yeah right yeah tommy had done this riff and they couldn't play it live on stage right right he because he would you know again you listen to you that's the difference you listen to those guys of certain caliber and you've seen you you play guitar but you know when you see a guitar player that's a monster yeah you go you put it down yeah yeah you know i mean you go you know you cringe you're thinking about it and that's

what these guys were those were the guys the monsters that would make the other guys cringe so that's why they might have been pissed off in the studio when they're watching someone else record

their parts but then they realize why they're recording their parts you understand and then you found they found a newfound respect for the guys

behind the glass but they made the hit now you just gotta go service it and if you don't service it in the same way who gives a shit it's a live show and they're this that's it and that's what people didn't understand is like well how could they play you know how could the beach boys and all these groups play in concert they had weeks to practice sure and they're you know and they just

gotta sound sucked yeah could you imagine recording some of those concerts yeah they'd be here forever and torturing us what's interesting to me in terms of your experience with this you know and obviously you know you've got all this music you've got the Phil Spector stuff

what was the Frank Sinatra thing what is your father's experience with Frank Sinatra oh well you know he did actually work with Frank a few times Strangers in the Night was you know

the big one that he did with Frank you know that he remembers that he was there that he you know was the special one even though

but you know it's funny because Bill Pittman again back to King Salt thought it was a piece of shit song and so did frank nancy didn't said her dad hated that song yeah strangers in the night which is really interesting my dad uh i remember playing a casual casual for those that don't know is basically it's like a wedding or whatever and he did uh frank's wedding and i can't remember. It would have been Mia Farrow, maybe? Maybe. It was basically him, his trio. Yeah.

Three guys at a dinner party of 10. Oh, really? Could you imagine what that's like? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But working with Frank, you rehearsed all day. Not all day, whatever. You rehearsed for a few hours. Frank come in, and boom, knockout, one, two takes.

Yeah. Did your father love him? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, because I think maybe being an italian kid also he said there was no better singer yeah for him yeah you know that was and you talked to those singers of even like you know i've talked to a few people said that guy's intonation was just forget it yeah yeah it's a natural uh-huh who else did your father like respect um respected uh

oh god that's a tough one it's funny because he played with Elvis. Yeah. You know, um, he always loved, um, he liked Sam Cooke. Yeah. He liked Sam Cooke. Yeah. He played with Marvin Gaye, but Sam Cooke, he thought was, he liked him as a better singer. I just got a Sam Cooke album.

I wanted to see that. I just saw that. Was that your dad's? No, no. Hal's on that though. And Renee Hall, uh, yeah, Renee Hall's. That's the one with, uh,, God, what's it called? I saw that in your collection.

Yeah, I just got it. I just got it. It's sealed. I didn't know it was sealed. I needed a bunch. I wanted to get a bunch of records. A guy gave me a sealed record, and I got a collector's item in there,

and I don't know if I can fucking open it to listen to it. Oh, who cares? Just open it. Just listen to it. What do you do? I know. Make $10 more? Yeah, you're right.

You're absolutely right. So, like, all right, so that's right. I forgot about the Sam Coo're right. You're absolutely right. So like, all right. So that's right. I forgot about the Sam Cooke part. It's just astounding to me. And how, Blaine, you got such a gift with that guy living. I tell you, man, what a character. He is outright gone.

I mean, he's just, he, for a couple. The drummer. Yeah. But he is the drummer. The drummer. I mean, you had him and Earl Palmer. The difference is Earl is a little older. So Earl comes out of New Orleans with, you know, Little Richard. The drummer. I mean, you had him and Earl Palmer. The difference is Earl is a little older, so Earl comes out of New Orleans with Little Richard and all that groove.

And then Hal starts up, and when Earl's too busy, he starts giving it to Hal. Then Hal's going, and Earl's going, and they're doing double drums on Jan and Dean, and they're going back, doing it all together. And there's no jealousy. That's the greatest thing, because there's no jealousy when there's so much work. Yeah. Right. And my dad would do it. But they must love it when they're going back, doing it all together. And there's no jealousy. That's the greatest thing, because there's no jealousy when there's so much work.

Yeah. Right. And my dad would do it. But they must love it when they're in it, the groove and just hitting it. I mean, I gotta imagine that no matter how much they frame it as like we got jobs, when they're on a groove and they nail it,

they must be like, holy fuck. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Hal was on six records of the year. Do you know which ones? It would have been... I know that Captain and Tennille was the last one. The last one, that, yeah. And Hal was on six records of the year. Do you know which ones? It would have been... I know the Captain and Tennille was the last one. The last one, that's seven. But it would have been Taste of Honey, Up, Up and Away, Aquarius, Bridge Over Troubled Water, and Mrs. Robinson.

Wow, did I nail it? Yeah, maybe. I think so. But like Up, Up and Away away there's an example of where my father didn't know he was on it yeah and the only reason he knew was Jimmy Webb gave all the guys little charms like Grammy charms yeah and he said to Hal what was this for he says that's that thing we did with bones and it was a fifth dimension thing we did last year because now you realize you're making a- What's this for?

They do it that much? I don't know what this is for. I don't know I'm on that. Can you imagine? You don't know what you're on. Because you're working so much. Working so much, but you're also, you're only there for three hours. They're giving you music you've never heard before.

Yeah. No one's ever heard it. And maybe the vocal track isn't even on it. Vocal track's not on that. Oh, see, yeah. So all you're playing is some rhythm tracks. You're down the tracks walking away boom forget it once later comes out you're not listening right you're not see i didn't even i didn't even factor that in so you're not sitting there going like we're doing a song for the fifth dimension no no you got a three-hour

session they play they might tell you or the singer might be there who doesn't matter you put the cans on there's a there's a drum, there's a bass and you got your music in front of you, you knock it out and you're out. Yeah. So they didn't know a lot of times. It's funny because sometimes

a lot of these guys, you know, and a lot of these people, as I like to say, they think they did a lot more shit than they did. Now, as my father said,

here's the thing. He says, the people we're talking about, they weren't on the fringes. Yeah. They worked. My dad went to work at 8 o'clock in the morning and sometimes never came home. Yeah.

Because if he had a gig at the same studio the next morning, you know what? I'll stay here. I'll sleep in the studio. Or they play cards all night. Oh, yeah. They're gamblers. Yeah. That was their thing.

That was their thing. Bad. But really bad? Yeah. Like what? Lose that house bad? It was bad enough to where it was like he'd bet on anything. That was his thing?

He did anything. It could have been, you know. Yeah. And, you know, he just, that was his thing. That caused friction at home? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

And it's funny, though. When he kind of got sick, he had a stroke. What happened was, and you'll appreciate this for all of us is why i think the film has done so well with audiences there's different reasons you all know the music and that's easy that's 50 of the story and that's piece of cake yeah and this is all by accident yeah there's two things going on in the story one it's about a group of musicians you know where you were in the thick of it and you're just kicking ass and nothing stopping you and my question to all

these guys what happens when you're not the a-team anymore when you are you know it's like you know but that juncture in the late 60s late 60s or whatever whenever it is for anybody from my dad it was the late 80s yeah because he went from 60s records and 70s into TV and film. Yeah, he had a hell of a career, though. Huge career in film and stuff, like you saw in the... Yeah. And so what happened is I asked Bones how,

and these are my two favorite lines, is Bones, the great producer and engineer, said, you're like an athlete. Yeah. You got your 10 years in the minors, whatever, and you're at the top, and then you got the an athlete. Yeah. You got your 10 years in the minors, whatever, and you're at the top, and then you got the ramp down. He says, it's not staying at the top.

It's taking the ramp down as long as possible. Yeah. And that's for all of us. And you don't have to be a comedian, a musician, an actor. You could be a lawyer. You could be a postman. And we all want to be part of something in our society.

Right. We just want to be relevant. We want you relevant. That's the word. Thank you. And that was the thing. And the other question I had for everybody was, how did all going to work 24-7 affect your personal lives? Now, Hal, he was married six times.

Yeah. One got him, though, huh? Yeah. One got him. Poor guy. As my father said, do you remember that line in my father's house as well? It affected me. I had six wives.

And my father said, yeah, but it wasn't because of your drumming. It was your personality. Yeah. So I asked everybody, and Plaz the Johnson, the wonderful sax man and legend who did the Pink Panther and stuff, he paused and he said, you know what? I'm a better grandfather than a father. Yeah. And again, if you're a parent, you understand instantly because you're trying like hell to make this work.

And it's never going to make it right. And also that generation was different. Exactly. I mean, the work ethic was like, I just got to provide. Exactly. The other stuff, maybe that'll happen, maybe it won't. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

It's true. And thank God for my mother. God bless her. I mean, she kept it together at home. Still around? Yeah. She's 83. You got kids?

Yeah, two. How old? Isabella's 15 and Raphael's nine. So they didn't know him? No, no. But all they know is Wrecking Crew. That's all they know is Daddy does Wrecking Crew and they're sick of it. Okay, so let's say for you,

when your father's dying, when someone has a prolonged cancer, at least you have time to process the grief at the time. I mean, what did this serve uh your relationship you know as he was dying and then afterwards i mean because you literally you have a growing relationship with your father you know 15 years after he's dead yeah you know what that's a very that's really i've never even asked that but it's really interesting i think what i'm the thing i'm proudest of and it's not about the movie but the people i've met you know around the country uh guitar players and

people that are strangers to me but they met him they met him let's say at a seminar in rochester they met him in this or you know and they would couldn't say anything the stories that come back of how nice he was or what he did for them. Chuck Rainey was a wonderful, one of the greatest bass players of all time. And he told me a story about, and he was in the,

you know, rock and roll stuff and this, you know, Steely Dan and all that stuff. And he said, I came to town,

he says, in the 70s. I'm the big rock and roll studio guy and I'm on a TV date. He says, you know, that's totally different. You know, you're a studio musician, yeah, everybody's a studio musician, quote unquote,

but until you get to this certain position, you'll go, oh shit, I gotta do this. Things change, records are different than TV, TV's different than film. He says, I'm playing this part, and it's an odd time for me on the bass, and all of a sudden I have to make a change in the time, bass time. He says, I blow it during rehearsal.

I'm like, hmm. And he says, so now we're going again. And he says, all of a sudden now we're rolling. It's TV. They've got the projector rolling and everything going, big band. And he says, I blow it. And all of a sudden your father comes out of nowhere with his guitar and just makes a huge noise.

Yeah. You know, screws up. I said, Tommy, you okay? Yeah, yeah, I'm fine. All right, let's do it again. Yeah. And so Chuck says, we go again. He says, come to that piece again, the measure, and I'm blowing it again.

Your father again, bam, even louder. It makes an even bigger noise. Tommy, what's up? You know, I'm fine. This is it. Let's do it. Roll back the film. And he said,

your father turned to me and says, you're on your own now. He covered him. Now, he didn't even know they had never met. But he knew he was the new guy. And he would protect the new guy. And that to me was,

when they talk about certain people. Did the guy nail it? No. That's funny you ask because I asked the same thing. Yeah. I said, Chuck, what did you do? He says, I didn't play.

He says, I let out. He says, and my father afterwards at the break, he says, that's what you're supposed to do the first time. He says, look around the studio. You're covered. He says, they're all in the baseline. Everybody's playing. No one's going to hear you.

So that was his lesson. He could, you're all in the bass line. Everybody's playing. No one's going to hear you. So that was his lesson. He could, you know. And that was the thing. He protected so many people. And drummers would tell the same thing. The Placido Domingo album, Latin thing. And the producer was out of hand. And he was getting out of hand.

My father said, at the break, took him outside, said, listen, motherfucker. If you don't cool out we're all leaving yeah you know he said that's it don't talk to these but he had such disrespect for people that talk to musicians badly and he could do it because he was the older guy yeah yeah and it's like don't talk bad to musicians and you know sometimes i you know and he would the one thing taught me, don't blow it with the leader. If you want to tell off the leader or the producer, whatever you want, that's fine. You could be 120% right, but don't expect to come back tomorrow. Yeah. You know.

Yeah, yeah. And it was, and that's kept me going on this project 17 years. Uh-huh. Because those people I wanted to tell off 15 years ago when they wanted to give me something whatever fact they're still around and they need to help me uh huh uh-huh so it's helped see you fucking burn any bridges not yet yeah a couple more months what about your relationships with the guys that knew your father which I imagine became very deep you know this process with like Howard Hal and Don Randy you know and Glenn was phenomenal he's an interesting

guy going camp and it's very interesting and Glenn was phenomenal. He's an interesting guy, Glenn Campbell. Very interesting. And that was the greatest thing is the other great thing about doing this doc, when I started it, it was 17 years ago. And you're like, it's Tommy's kid. Right. And I'm asking questions that he's never been asked. Who, Tommy?

No, Glenn. Right. You know, I'm talking about the days of session players. This is, you know, 15, 10 years ago, whenever it was, before Alzheimer all time he had something going we knew there was something that when my interview oh big time yeah he's gone oh it's sad it's very sad he's stopped touring he's just but when i was asking him questions it was questions that he'd never been asked and that to him was the greatest time period of his life yeah because he wasn he wasn't the leader. Before he became a solo act. Before he became a solo act.

Yeah. You know, the first time he came back from Europe doing a tour or something, he came back and go through the airport and someone said, hey, Glenn, how's it going? And going, how's everybody know me? Yeah. Because it was the season replacement for the Smothers Brothers. Right. So that was that one time and the Smothers Brothers got canceled.

So they just kept him going. And with Hal Blaine. Hal, man, it was back to Hal. The guy, if he wasn't a musician, he would have been a comedian. Yeah. You know, he was friends with Lenny Bruce and, you know. We started in the burlesque, and he covered all that stuff. Yeah, absolutely.

And, I mean, you know, you go out, no matter what you do, you could go anywhere, something's going to light up a light bulb for a second, you know. You'd be in a deli and all of a sudden a deli joke comes out or this comes out. It's nonstop. I don't know how he knows so much, so many jokes. Yeah. I mean, ridiculous. Yeah.

And he's still all there? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's there. He's there. So now, so what are we going to do, Denny? So now I basically, what I'm doing is I got to get this thing out. Distributors wouldn't touch me because it was like, you know, no one wanted to touch

it because of the music. Now it's all paid for. I'm paid for it. You know, so I'm just hoping to get this thing out there. I'm doing fundraisers. I'm doing literally, I'm doing private screenings. I do, I've shown this film all around the world well where can people who listen to this go and help out uh basically go to the website wrecking crew film.com and you know if you're a distributor out

there why haven't you called you know i've paid it now let's go um i'm having it's funny um the greatest thing for me was showing this film to live audiences. And we've had it as fundraisers for different groups and foster care and different things. And I'm proud of the film. I'm really proud of the new cut, too, that no one's seen. And do you feel like on some level that, you know, it sounds like your relationship with your father wasn't horrible. No, not at all but do you feel that you have that that was something compelling you around like not unlike you say your father looked out for the for the new guy and for the musician and for you know for the respect of of his profession yeah do you feel like you know as a son that you know you're sort of you know not

only carrying it on yeah yeah not wow i Wow, I got goosebumps. You know what? I never thought of it that way, but when I think about it, yeah. Because I get really, and it's so weird that you said that because I'm just thinking about this. Yes, you're right, I do. Because I have such respect for these musicians.

The hardest thing for me is watching musicians that are so talented yeah or comics are so talented or actors are so talented it's matter of luck sometimes oh yeah you know yeah you know and it's so funny because i've said this i you know traveling this thing with this film i only got a you know briefcase and a film with me, a backpack, and I'm doing one-nighters here and there, and I go, how the hell do you guys

do this shit? How do the musicians do it with the gear and the comics? The difference is, hopefully I have, it's a film. It's not as,

it's passive. It's not interactive like you have to do it. I couldn't imagine. But it is having the respect I want them to have the respect in in people that know yeah you know yeah you know you know and my father was you know if you ever saw him play live for any of those people out there that's not fully live you know

you know he's ripping through and my mom was it why are you doing that are you know he like he says this for the one guitar player in the room you know, he's ripping through and my mom would say, why are you doing that? I don't know, you know, he says it's for the one guitar player in the room, you know. The greatest, you know, I gotta tell you this funny story is,

you know, years ago, I was producing for, I did those Pulp Comics things on Comedy Central. Oh, Jesus Christ. Yeah.

What was the angle on Pulp Comics? Pulp Comics was doing a stand-up and we would cut to a film about what would happen. Right, about whatever that was.

So I did Margaret Cho. I did Bobcat. I did Dana Gould. You were shooting it? No, I was producing it. And I was producing the film parts. So my first time was with Bobcat. And Bobcat writes, who's actually one of the smartest guys I've ever met.

He directed eight of my episodes. He's amazing yeah i mean it was so cool i mean so it's like go to you know meet with bob can we do all this shit and i'm finding a location of course bobcat writes in a porno store on van nuys boulevard so i'm going to the porno store and making agreements you know you know you know to shoot there with his crew and i said i give him the guy my card he goes any relation to tommy now i'm going God I hope he's a guitar player don't tell me my dad shops here yeah those are the kind of things yeah thank God

but it was one of those things you know and that happens a lot and I'm really you know again those those articles were really popular and he he told it like it was yeah well i was well thank you for bringing me the tommy tedesco for guitar players only book i need this i need what is it shortcuts and technique sight reading and studio playing and you know what drummers tell me they used to read that book it had nothing to do there's stories in between that were pretty funny. Does it teach you how to read music? Yeah, I tried the other day. It still hasn't helped me, but I got to practice.

Everybody assumes I can play guitar, but I haven't gotten the third chord down. Like in my mind, I'm like, I'm going to do this. That's what I do all the time. I'm going to learn how to play guitar. I'm 53. It might not happen. It's got to.

I wanted it to be like the side story of this documentary of you learning how to play guitar well I said to one of the friends you know

a professional I said you know if I did 50% of or 10% of what I put into this documentary practicing

I'd be a hell of a guitar player yeah he said yeah but you'd be out of work like the rest of us yeah but you got your old man's guitars or what

yeah there's still a few of them home yeah yeah so I nice so try all right well thank you i really appreciate it great thank you all right that's our show folks thank you for listening since denny and i spoke i wanted to tell you this and after 18 years in production, there is finally a distributor that wants to release the film. They're targeting a release date in 2015, so we'll keep in touch with Denny and let you know how that progresses. Go to WTFpod.com and get that

app and upgrade to that premium app. Stream all the episodes. Thank you for listening. Watch Maren tonight to watch me relive one of the most traumatic experiences of my life. Thank you for bearing witness. Thank you for being there today. Especially today.

I think I unburdened myself. I don't know. The heart's a funny thing. The mind's a funny thing. But that's about it though. I don't think there's anything else that I haven't really talked to you guys about god damn

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