WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 523 - Bob Newhart

Episode Date: August 10, 2014

Bob Newhart is an American institution thanks to his incredibly funny and popular television shows. But the way Marc sees it, Bob Newhart is one of the most important stand-up comedians ever. Marc talks with the legend about the comedy albums that turned Bob into an overnight sensation and changed the game for American comedy. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Lock the gates! I'm sitting out in my car in front of a home in Bel Air haven't done this in a while and I'm nervous when you're going to talk to somebody like Bob Newhart I'm a bit in awe this is a guy that's had an amazing career on television but i just spent the morning listening to his first three records the button down mind bob newhart return of the button down mind of bob

newhart and behind the button down mind of Bob Newhart, and Behind the Button-Down Mind of Bob Newhart. Now, these all were recorded roughly between 1959, 1961. The first album, The Button-Down Mind of Bob Newhart, won two Grammys. 1961, the Grammys. Won the best album of the year, best new artist, and Return of the Button-Down Mind won best spoken word album the same year. So this is an amazing amount of output. And these were huge records. And these were game-changing records in terms of what I see as the evolution from the comedian to the stand-up comedian.

I don't think Bob Newhart gets the proper respect that he should as a stand-up comic and as somebody that really invented the form of one of the main inventors of the form of American stand-up, shifting away from joke-telling and from straight-up comedic entertaining to actually doing cultural commentary and satire. I mean, people are familiar with, or at least familiar with the name of Lenny Bruce or the name of Mort Sahl, but this is a little after those guys put out their records that Bob was working. And these records are profoundly important in terms of creating what the possibilities of stand-up could be, of point-of-view comedy, of criticizing satirically the forces that were at that time. Marketing, advertising, politics, bureaucratic employment,

what was being presented as the future of America. This is an interesting time that I don't know about historically that often, but it was a transition time in the middle of the Eisenhower administration. It's before Kennedy, but it's post-war. And there was a certain amount of momentum going on in America. You know, there's a big change going on. You know, the beatniks were already around. As I said, Lenny was already around. There was a counterculture. But Bob Newhart, you know, becomes huge, really speaking truth to power in a very palatable way. He did comedy that it wasn't just him on the phone talking to someone we couldn't hear, but on some of these records, there's

characters. He's doing characters that are engaging with each other. He's setting up scenes in offices, on the telephone, driving instructors, on vacations. He's doing full scenes. He's, what I heard one reviewer say about Cosby, he's peopling the stage with these characters. This is not something you see much anymore, where comedians will do a series of characters within a scene. There's a few guys that do it, and I love it. It's a rare thing. And it was rare even then, obviously, to do well.

In my mind, Bob Newhart's one of the most important stand-ups ever. As I said, a lot of people know him from his TV shows, and I think those are fine. I think they're great. They're obviously amazing. They were hilarious. Both the Bob Newhart show and Newhart years later. But there was a period where he was just doing stand-up.

You know, he guest hosted the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson over 80 times. He was on the Dean Martin Variety Show, you know, dozens of times. Ed Sullivan made appearances in movies. But if you think about it, and I'm not sure you wouldn't unless I told you, the three records that happened between 59 and 61 were over 10 years before the Bob Newhart show, which really familiarized everybody with Bob Newhart. That's a long time. I wonder what was going on in those times. I wonder what was going on in his mind as he made the shift into stand-up.

I guess I'm going to find all these things out as soon as I pull into his driveway, just sitting out here weirdly in Bel Air, talking on a microphone parked on a fairly secluded lane. Talking on a microphone parked on a fairly secluded lane. And he's in his 80s now. I'll try and keep my act together here. I've made a bunch of notes here. I've got two pages of handwritten notes in the margins all over the place. It's just like my brain splattered it onto a piece of paper.

All the things that I should know. But ultimately it's going to really come down to me and him and I sitting there and talking. Oh man.

I feel this way a lot. I felt this way when I was sitting outside of Jonathan Winter's house. I felt this way when I was sitting outside of Jonathan Winter's house. I felt this way when I was in the parking lot of Mel Brooks' office, sitting outside of Carl Reiner's house, sitting outside Dick Van Dyke's house. These guys are guys that were sort of there at the beginning.

We're sort of there at the beginning. And it's always daunting to me to sort of how do I encapsulate that? How do I get a sense of that? How do I get it all in or at least get that moment? Moments of I've got to shut up I should probably I can't even head inside yet so I'll just sit here We can wait for clean water solutions. Or we can engineer access to clean water. We can acknowledge indigenous cultures.

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helping put Calgary and our innovation ecosystem on the map as a place where people come to solve some of the world's greatest challenges. Calgary's on the right path forward. Take a closer look at CalgaryEconomicDevelopment.com. So we were just talking about Jonathan Winters when I spent time with him. You said that he was one of the first guys you ever saw? Johnny and I got to, well, there was a club in Chicago called the Black Orchid. And somebody, I think somebody fell out. I had never worked a nightclub, but I had a kind of minor reputation around Chicago.

As what? As just a funny guy. I did a local television show there. I did a man on the street show. And a guy, Tom Racine, was the host. He was a man on the street show in 1958. Now, a man on the street show was revolutionary in 1947, but it was no longer revolutionary in 1958.

So it was hard getting people to stop, because they'd just push you out of their way. Oh, here comes a gentleman. Oh, I'm sorry. They'd had enough of it already. Yes. So he would do regular interviews, and then I would be the comic relief,

and I would do... On a topic, usually, or just... No, just whatever I wrote the night before. That was on you. Whatever struck you. Show up prepared. Whatever struck me is funny. Well, we were on opposite opposite today and Captain Kangaroo.

Tough spot. Very tough spot. It was five days a week. We were on for 16 weeks. We got one postcard. We weren't even sure if the signal was getting out of the building the postcard said why are you guys still on no

the postcard I did a guy the most famous human interest storyteller in the world this man has published many books of human interest just strictly on so Tom asked me what is your favorite

of all the stories you've written you must have a favorite of human interest. Yeah. Strictly. So Tom asked me, what is your favorite? Of all the stories you've written, you must have a favorite human interest story. So I tell this story about it. I said, well, it's the family, and they had this dog. They had a little dog. And the dog had been with the family for, oh, years and years.

And somebody left the door, the gate open open and the dog got out and when the kids came back you know from school and said where's Sparky and the mother said I know it's in the house

he said no I look in the backyard he said not in the backyard so they started looking for the dog no, look in the backyard. He said, not in the backyard. So they started looking for the dog. And the dog, it just became blibbering. The guard was a guy, he wanted to buy the book.

He thought it was a real book? So I said, oh my God, we're not even getting through to people they they don't know it's a no stick it's a that still happens you know i'm sure there's a sucker board every minute people just believe everything literally poor guy you moved him it all worked up just wanted the book so. So I listened to all the records, well, the first three records. First three were the best, yeah. Well, it was an amazing amount of output. It was a flood.

I mean, the first three albums were just, they just poured out. Right, and leading up to that, before we get into exactly what happened, so you're around Chicago. the first three albums were just, they just poured out. Right. And leading up to that, before we get into exactly what happened, so you're around Chicago. You grew up there. Yeah.

Do you go back still? Yeah, I go back. You got people there? Yeah, it's a great city. You still have family there? Yeah, my three sisters are there. And so what, I mean, when you grew up,

what was your family like? What was the life like? What did your old man do? He drank. Well, I mean, but see, I thought everybody's life was that. Yeah. That's what a kid does. Right.

I mean, he worked during the day. He was a heating and air conditioning and heating salesman uh-huh and then he come home and then we did have dinner sometimes as a family other times not and then he would leave around eight o'clock and he would go to this bar with all his friends yeah and then he'd come back about 11 30 12 o'clock and he had a snootful you know and but that's but i i thought that's what every father did and in retrospect what do you think well i i don't think he wanted to be with us i I mean, it finally dawned on me that maybe we weren't. In fact, I guess my career is all about just trying to get my dad's attention.

Hey. And I had this conversation with Steve Martin. He had the same upbringing. Really? Not that his father was an alcoholic but his father was a um was just uninterested right and detached and he spent his time just you know trying to impress his dad and so i yeah i think that's i'm devoted i mean i thank i want to thank him yeah because i if i grew up in a normal house, I'd be an accountant somewhere.

It's interesting how many comics I talk to that have an experience like that, whether their father's detached or absent or this need for this approval to prove yourself. Sure, sure. But there's also like a weird anger at the core of that as well. Like, why? So I guess your mother was was solid yeah oh yeah she was she was yeah very she kept it going yeah but was your dad but in a way she allowed him to do it you know that's the classic structure yeah yeah and put him to bed picked him up walking not that so much

he wasn't that kind of drunk he just was he drank every night yeah until a doctor said to him uh george that was his his first name uh he said george you can't drink and you're allowed one drink and my my dad said uh okay and that was it that was it from That was it. From then on, he had one drink during the day. That's all he had. And was he a different guy? No. He probably not as much fun. Are you the oldest, or where do you fit in with the whole? Second oldest. And where did your sisters end up doing?

How did it all go? Oldest sister is a nun, a religious Catholic nun. Really? A nun? Yeah. Why would I lie about that? I'm not going to make anything up. She was the first astronaut, first woman astronaut.

The first astronaut nun. That's right. The flying nun was based on her. So you brought up religious? Yeah. Oh, yeah. You could say that, yeah. Catholic.

Catholic, yeah. Yeah. The fear was put in you early on. Sure. And you remained religious. Yes. I guess you've got to have something that holds you together, right? Yeah, I guess. Yeah, to have something that holds you together. Right? Yeah, I guess. It works for me.

I'm not as religious as I used to be. Show business will do that to you. But I like Francis. I like a lot of the stuff he's doing. Which, who? Pope Francis. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I call him Francis.

Okay, you talked to him this morning. We're very close. I just got off the phone. God calls me for advice. That's a new bit. You're on the phone with Francis. Yeah, he seems like certainly a more open-minded fellow. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, have you been over there? Have you been to Rome? Have you seen the heart of it all? Yeah, I went to Rome with the Rickles, as a matter of fact. When did that friendship start? That friendship started because my wife, Jenny, of 51 years. We're married 51 years. She and Barbara Rickles, who was then Barbara Sklar, was a secretary for an agent that Jenny was going out with.

Not while we were married, but before we got married. Because I would have put my foot down. Sure, you would have said something. Hey, wait a minute. Not the situation I had planned. No. hey, wait a minute. Not the situation I had planned.

No. So I had never met Don. Yeah. But I knew, I of course knew of Don. So I was at the, I think the Sands in Vegas in the main room. I always bring that up,

the main room. Sure. Because there's a pecking order. Yeah, of course. And he was in the lounge. He was in the lounge at the main room. Sure. Because there's a pecking order. Yeah, of course. And he was... Not in the lounge. He was in the lounge at the Sahara. Yeah. So Ginny said...

And they had just gotten married. So... So this is a young, sweaty Don Rickles. It's the same Don Rickles you see. I just saw him in Canada. Did you see? Yeah. I saw him do the Q&A at the end

because I was doing a gala show after him. And when I got there, he was. Oh, that's right. He just did the. And he was sitting up there. Just relaxed. Yeah, taking questions. And it was phenomenal.

And he always speaks very highly of you. And, you know, and it's just the yin and yang of it. The kind of the differences in your personality. I guess it was meant to be. I'm surprised you guys never did the sunshine boys we talked about it did you yeah we had talked about by that time it meant learning a lot of words so it's recently yeah i would say five years right right right so anyway, so, so Ginny says, Don, oh, Don and Barbara are in town.

He's in the lounge, so why don't I set up and we'll have, we'll have a late dinner with him. Because his hours were like, he started at one in the morning and went till six

in the lounge. So we said, fine. So we go to the Sahara, as I remember, the coffee shop right yeah the all night diner thing yes yeah yeah and we're talking I'm talking to Barbara and Jenny's talking to Don and now it's time to go and see Don's three o'clock show in the lounge so now we're then

Don goes back to change into a tux he still wears a tux yeah you know everybody cosby everybody else has given up yeah i mean cosby's in in sweatsuits you know but and i i'm just in a jacket but don still he wears the traditional tux so he's going back to getting this tux so we're walking into the showroom, to the lounge. And Jenny says to me, he's such a sweet man. He's such, oh, he just wants to be with his family, and he hates being on the road. I said, honey, that isn't the man you're going to see, okay? I mean, yes, he is that way.

She'd never seen him. She'd never seen him, no. He walks out. First thing he says, and they put us in the front row. First thing he says, he said this stammering idiot from Chicago was in the audience with his hooker wife from Bayonne, New Jersey. So I look over. Her jaw has dropped. And I said, I tried to tell you. That's what he does. was that was the introduction then we then we started taking trips together and we just that was it how about just have a go we just have

a good time we just enjoy each other well it's interesting to me you know when i when i listen to your records again like today is that in my mind and one of the reasons that you know i have such respect for you is that there was a difference in what you were doing as a performer at that time i mean you know don rickles is you know he's his own thing he's don rickles but he's a club comic yeah and it seems to me that you you are part of this legacy of of what really became in my mind there's a difference between a stand-up comedian and a comic there There was a sea change in comedy. Right.

Around 58. Exactly. And it was, you know, the comic now had a point of view. He had a way to speak, you know, a certain amount of truth to power. He was able to take his time and, you know, it wasn't all based on old jokes. There was no jokes rating. It was a specific. Which was a reason.

Yeah. And it was probably more Saul which was a reason and it was probably more salt first right and then shelly right mike and elaine johnny winners myself lenny lenny that and that was pretty much right pretty much it the reason they couldn't do take my wife please because it was college audiences right and and they didn't relate i don't have a wife you know tell me something that affects me right you know and and so they they didn't go to nightclubs right because that's what the albrenner hole in the coat you know all the punch lines which everybody had stole from everybody else and that was their parents

anyways yes and so now they had to find their nightclub. Their nightclub was a college dorm and they ordered pizza and beer and they sat around and played Moort's All, Lenny Bruce. Was there a record at all? Because I think it seems like Jonathan really came out after you on record.

And I guess Shelly and Mort and Lenny had done a record. Proceeded. Yeah just a couple years. And I think Mike and Elaine. And Mike and Elaine. Yeah. So when you're coming up I mean what before you started doing comedy because you really didn't you know start doing stand-up until after the record came out right? I did stand up to make the record. Right. But before that. The first place I played as a stand-up we recorded the album two weeks later. first place i played as a stand-up we recorded the album two weeks that might that's mind-blowing i know because like knowing that and having read

that i was sort of listening to that record it's like he's a little nervous he's a little nervous try terrifying i know wait there's another so warner brothers they finally found a place that would take a chance on a comedian who had never played a nightclub. We're going to tape on Friday night and on Saturday. One show on Friday night and two shows on Saturday. Friday night, I get a drunken woman in the front row. That's the worst thing a comedian can get. It's still the worst thing.

Yeah, still the worst thing. That and the bachelorette party, the worst. Yeah, because you can still the worst thing. Yeah, still the worst thing. That and the bachelorette party, the worst. Yeah, because you can do, same thing. With a woman drunk, you can do maybe two lines and then you better stop because the sympathy

immediately shifts to her. Right, right. But she's drunk, so I'm doing Abe Lincoln, or I'm doing The Driving Assertion. Yeah.

And she's saying, that's a bunch of crap. That's a bunch of crap. Oh, no. Through the entire, so we go up to Georgia Vodka and she's clearer than I am. Yeah.

That's a bunch of crap. On the tape. Yes. We had to throw Friday night out. I got crap. I'm the take. Yes. We had to throw Friday night out. I got two. I'm nervous enough anyway. And where are you? I'm in Houston at the Tidelands.

In Texas? In Houston, Texas. Yeah. Why that choice? Why Texas? Because they're the only ones who would take a chance. It took them a year to find a club to for this to hire a comedian who had never played a nightclub nightclub in chicago there's tons of them no one would give a local guy no no it was

that tight we don't go there was for there was a second city right they were approached and and i was told they said that that isn't our kind of stuff what does that even mean i guess improv okay i guess it means improv i guess that's what it means all right so all you got is saturday night but that isn't our kind of stuff. What does that even mean? I guess improv. Okay. I guess it means improv. I guess that's what it means. All right, so all you got is Saturday night now. All I got is two shows Saturday night, yeah. And you nailed it.

What you heard was that's what happened, yeah. And you could hear the nervousness. Well, not like nervousness, but like knowing what I knew, and knowing that this was it. Uh-uh, okay. You know, but like knowing what I knew, you know, and knowing that, you know, this was it. Uh-uh. Okay. You know, like there was an intensity to it. Because, you know, by the time I got to behind the button down mine, I mean, your flow was different. Your comfort level was different.

I'm not even aware of it. Yeah. I mean, but this is just me being sort of like, you know, obviously the material was great and you were great. I mean, it was a huge record. It was the first record to, you know, to win, you know, won two Grammys. So that was phenomenal. That had never happened before. So, and out of nowhere, your first night on stage, basically, as a standup comic, you won three Grammys and it's a national phenomenon. It sells all over the world. I did a show one time, I'm getting ready because I only had people that didn't even understand. I only had one side of the album.

People don't know what you mean by one side because they're used to CDs. Four bits? Three. Three bits? You have three, three and a half. You had three bits going into the show in Texas? Yeah. I had a driving instructor,

Abe Lincoln, and a submarine commander were the three I had. So at that time, recording an album was no small task. I mean, it was big equipment. Oh, yeah. Well, you couldn't see it,

but there were microphones hanging all over the place. Yeah. So I got three routines. Yeah. So I go out one night, and I come off, and I go by the maitre d',

and he said, they're applauding. He said, go back out. I said, I don I don't have anything I said that's all I have he said well go back out they're applauding I went back out and I said um which one would you like to hear again that's all that's all I have so leading up to this, what was the trajectory? So you go to school, and then you go into service? Yeah. And how long were you in the service?

Two years. Were you in Korea? No, I was in California. That wasn't as hard a battle. No war stories. I lived in Chicago at that point 22 years. They sent me to California. Now I run into the California weather, and I'm like,

why didn't someone tell me about this all these years? I've been freezing to death or perspiring from heat, and no one told me about California. I've been freezing to death or perspiring from heat. And no one told me about California. Yeah. I said, as soon as I get $300, I'm coming back out here. Yeah. And you went to, what, did you go to school on a GI Bill?

How'd that work? Yeah, afterwards. I went to law school for a year and a half on the GI Bill. And you bailed? I flunked. Bail, I bailed. I'll use that from now on. But it wasn't your thing. You weren't interested? I was too busy with, no. I was, well, I was a law clerk. I'd go to school in the morning and part of the afternoon, then I'd be

a law clerk in the afternoon. And then at night I was active in a play group. So something had to suffer and it was it was law school at least that's my version of it you were doing sketches and stuff no place just full place yeah full place yeah when was the accounting period that was after I flunked out of law school so then I went into accounting yeah and worked two and a half years as an accountant was it horrible i mean were you were you like you know this can't be my life bored to death yeah bored to death that that's how the bob and ray thing came about because at the end of the day this guy i was in the play group

with ed gallagher he'd call me on the phone and we'd do bits over the phone just to break the monotony of accounting. And so I did two and a half years, and then I thought, I've just got to try comedy. And when was the advertising gig? That was after accounting. That was a very short time, maybe six months. A friend of mine was in advertising. He got me a job in advertising.

And that didn't appeal to you i got fired i got well no i mean again my side of it is i was on the wrong side of the room you know i worked for a guy named fred niles yeah who who had this building which is now oprah was oprah's building in chicago and i was on the wrong side of the room, and so he fired half the room, and I was on the room. That's my version of it. Don't ask Fred because he's gone. But I think he has a different version of it. Anyway, at that point I said, I've got to try this. If I fall on my face, I fall on my face.

Okay, I'll go back to accounting or whatever, advertising. But some of this stuff was so pointed to what your experience in accounting and your experience in advertising your experience in sort of a face with bureaucracy but also your experience in in what really became the dominating force of american culture which was advertising did it did it play into like because it seemed like on the first record the couple of bits bits, the press agent, Nate Blinken, and certainly the marketing of the Wright Brothers, that these were very pointed satires about image and about what people thought were true.

That's why they came up with the button-down mind. That's why it was called the button-down mind of Bob Newhart, which wasn't even my idea. That came out of Warner Brothers, that the uniform of the day on Madison Avenue was a button down collar and so much of the material was about advertising and marketing and that kind of thing that they called it the button down mind that was pretty smart marketing person yeah I don't know where he is I never got a chance to thank him he did did you right with that one. I don't know that mainstream America had seen that type of satire really,

you know, as accessible as you made it. I was just doing what I thought was funny. I can't say there was a giant overall plan. But it was definitely, you know, you had, you know, there was a certain chutzpah to it. I mean, you know, it was the world that you sort of had been in a little bit, and it was a world that everybody was starting to understand that was becoming public.

It was a pretty powerful time for America, sort of post-war. Everything was moving forward. The economy was good, right? Yeah, Eisenhower. Yeah, but there was this weird beatnik thing that was happening. There was a shift that sort of led into the 60s. Yeah. Actually, they always said nothing happened in the 50s.

A lot was happening in the 50s. Things were breaking apart. Mort Sahl and Lenny Bruce and Shelley. All right. So when you say you're going to start doing comedy and you got this idea, how did you first start to approach it? Because it all happened so quickly once you you know got the record but did you start going out and watching people

no i don't think no you just we're gonna okay bob and ray did it yes so you didn't i i thought i would i thought my dream would have been to have become a writer for bob and ray that that would have been that's the epitome. Well, there's that dynamic. I mean, you can certainly hear a bit of that, but there's only you. There's just Bob. And the beats were filling in the blanks in reaction to this fictional person, this unheard person. But so you didn't go out and study anything. You're just sort of like, I'm going to do this. Did you realize it was crazy at the time or did you really think of it as a reasonable career I didn't know I just had to find out you just wanted to just I just had to find out people

were telling me gee you're funny you know you ought to go to New York you know get in a place and then you you go to New York and nothing happens, and you come back, and the guy who told you to go to New York says, yeah, I thought that'd work out for you. Now you've wasted five years of your life, and all this guy says is that, yeah, really, I thought that'd work out for you. So what was the series of events then? So you had these bits that you wrote with the guy on the phone, with your buddy from accounting? Ed Gallagher. Ed Gallagher. So you put these on paper.

There was a guy, I think Chris Peterson was his name. He put up the money so we could make an acetate of like 10 routines that we had that Ed and I had developed over there and a lot of more were improvised they were just it was an open mic and I saw you mean the two of you were just I'll be a I'll be a submarine commander right okay and okay and then I'll introduce you as you're walking out okay right and then we just we just go so we sent, and we got three replies.

We got Northampton, Mass., which I think was a girls' college near there. You sent it out as an audition reel. Yeah, we sent 100 of them. This guy put up the money for it, Chris Peters. Yeah. We sent out 100 acetates. Three replied. It should have told us something.

Northampton, Mass., Jacksonville, Florida, Idaho Falls, Idaho. Almost coast to coast. Not quite. Select cities. We need Seattle and then we would have been. So, okay, now we got, Ed said, what did we charge i said i have no idea i said i know five five five minute routines a week for 13 weeks i said um i don't know seven fifty seven seven dollars and fifty cents yeah yeah, no. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I said, yeah, I think.

Well, we found out the tape cost more than $7.50. So one of the stations stiffed us. I don't know which one it was. One of the radio stations. Two wanted to renew us on this basically

poor man Bob and Ray program. And we wrote them back and said, I'm sorry, we can't afford to do this anymore we you know it cost us money so then Ed was offered a job in in New York in advertising BBD and all so I'm in Chicago and Ed had to take the job because he had kids and he's married and and we had nothing going we We weren't making money.

So now I said, okay, I either have to find another partner as good as Ed or I go out on my own. So I decided to go out on my own. So a lot of the conversations, somebody is still there. Right. Yeah. He's on the other end is still there. Right. Yeah. He's on the other end of the phone. Right.

Yeah. And leading up to the record, how did the record deal sort of come together? You couldn't audition. No. What happened was a disc jockey friend of mine, a guy named Dan Sorkin. He was a great disc jockey.

He was like just off the wall kind of. Right. So the Warner Brothers record people were coming through Chicago. So they call on Dan because he's a very big disc jockey. To see what's going on? To just, you know, handshake.

Yeah. Oh, by the way, we've got the Everly Brothers. Oh, right, right, right. Yeah. Really like you to play this hot piece of wax yeah so uh he said i had this friend of mine i was on a they had the car show in chicago yeah got huge

ratings and it was off at 11 o'clock nbc decided what do we do with this audience that we've got so they decided to build a show around Dan Sorkin, the disc jockey. I was a- A TV show. A TV show. Yeah. To keep the power audience.

Yeah. I was a writer and performer. And the show lasted, I think, four weeks, I think. The director, he said, if you were at home and you opened the window, and when the power show went off, and the Dan Sorkin show came on, you could hear an audible click of television sets

all over Chicago being turned off. So anyway, Dan is, so he's familiar with my material so the one of other people so he says I have this friend of mine I think he's very funny and I said

okay we'll listen to him so Dan calls me up he said borrow a tape recorder and record Abe Lincoln submarine commander

and driving instructor so I do I take the tape down there they listen to it. They say, okay, we think it's very funny, and we'll record you at your next nightclub. I said, I've never played a nightclub. They said, well, then we'll have to find you a nightclub

and record you at that nightclub. And that was the year. And that took a year. Unbelievable. To find him. Because I called him up at one point. Because I had signed a recording contract with Warner Brothers. And I said, whatever happened today,

they said we're still trying to find a place that will take a chance on us. I can't believe that's so astounding to me that the industry was so intimate at that time and so controlled that if you wanted to, you couldn't just rent a place. But that wasn't really a possibility because you needed the audience oh yeah oh yeah yeah you needed to walk into an established joint you know that i'm it's it's amazing to me okay so it takes a year you end up in texas you knock this thing out and your expectations around it you knew you did well right yeah i mean you felt no you didn't no no i didn't know i i i

thought that i thought the record might might sell 25 000 yeah copies and so if i went into a city maybe there are 50 people that heard heard the end would come in to uh just to see it right to see the guy. So you make a little bit of money. You think you could get started. And it's a great adjunct to a stand-up career. Yeah, sure. I had no idea it was going to explode.

What do you think that was? What do you think that moment was? I mean, you know, culturally. Because, I mean, before, I mean, you were familiar with lenny bruce you knew you know martzwell you know these guys were were you know aggressively taking on politics you know and aggressively pushing the envelope and you seem to find a level this i guess i'm answering my own question you can tell me if i'm right or wrong that you found this level where it was where it was clean and not menacing to sort of get the message of kind of sticking it to corporate America, kind of sticking it to these shadow forces.

There was a guy, I remember, Milstein, his last name, and he was a writer for the New York Times. And he came down, he interviewed me at some place, maybe the Hungry Eye where I was playing at the time. And he wrote an article and he called it The Man Who Bites the Hand That's Feeding Him. Which is kind of what we were talking about. He's biting the advertising, he's making fun of the advertising world.

The advertising people are going to see this man who then makes fun of what they do. That's a tricky business. Because if you go too far, they're going to be like, screw that guy. Yeah. That guy's finished. He's a troublemaker. But somehow or another, you found a very diplomatic line. There's nothing

better than being able to to to rip somebody and have them laugh without them knowing it sometimes without them knowing it yeah because they're saying i know that guy yeah right and i guess that's something you share with don rickles you're just a little that might be the core of your friendship, is that you're much more subtle, but you're kind of doing the same thing. Okay, I'll take that. I knew where I stood in terms of politically,

but I also knew I was doing something important. I knew I was making fun of the large corporation. And I was making fun of the military, the highly organized. I was just doing it in a little different way. You're humanizing it. Okay. In the sense that, you know, because you were doing characters. And these characters, even though you don't hear abe lincoln talk you know what he became in that bit was sort of like this you know overly earnest you know not

quick person and and the shtick of a the the press agent was like uh you know what's the fact that this this is one of the most revered presidents in American history. And I'm saying, the guy isn't real bright. He's thick. Yeah. And I think it kind of released some steam in the American culture. It's phenomenal. Like, in just listening to this stuff this morning, it's so fresh in my head that a lot

of that stuff still holds up and and and the the thing with the uh the the rocket scientist is is is a great bit because then that's see that's weird because that's one of the really obscure i love it i love it because you know you're dealing with you know i mean lenny did a bit about hitler right yeah yeah yeah that bit about yeah he's a painter yeah mca and hitler you know but it's still hitler so hitler's on the periphery of the rocket a bit about Hitler, right? Yeah, that bit about he's a painter, MCA and Hitler. But it's still Hitler. So Hitler's on the periphery of the rocket scientists. But to actually draw attention

to the fact that these rocket scientists were Nazis. And then the whole bit is this sort of like, it turns out, you're going to pay me later. And the best line, and to make a long story short we lose the war yeah but that's provocative stuff and i don't know that americans were necessarily certainly people

that that weren't you know intellectuals or on you know or paying attention had not put that stuff together at all necessarily necessarily. Okay. Perhaps. All I'm saying is it struck me funny, and I did it. Did you feel like you had to? I wasn't setting out to blaze any new trails. Right, but it was just this is where your mind was working. But this was in my gut that these things upset me. Oh, they did upset you, and you had a point.

Yeah, the large unfailing corporation yeah the military that this this man this submarine commander rises at least seven levels above where he's where he's competent right and and very calmly explains this horrendous trip that they made. Two years underwater. Underwater. And the sick line is what we saved. As you know, we knocked two minutes off the previous record, four minutes and 29 seconds in surfacing, firing at the toward target, then in resubmerging.

I think a lot of the time we saved was because of the men we had to leave on deck. I think they, in no small way, had an awful lot to do with the two minutes that we cut off the record. And none of us will soon forget their somewhat stunned expressions as we watched them through the periscope.

I'm not even sure that's on the album, is it? I'm not sure. I don't think it is. You know why? Because Don Adams stole it. He stole it? I tried to. I had nothing going.

Yeah. And I tried to sell him the Submarine Commander. Yeah. And he turned it down. And then just took it? Yeah. Oh, before you did Button Down Mine? Yes.

How did you come in touch with Don Adams? Because at this point nothing was happening and so i said i'll become i'll become a no even before okay when ed had gone to new york and right and i i'm i don't know what the hell direction to go in and i said okay i'll become a comedy writer and so i tried to sell it to don adams and don and i were good friends and we get about he from chicago no don's from new And I said, okay, I'll become a comedy writer. And so I tried to sell it to Don Adams. And Don and I were good friends, and we'd get about it. Is he from Chicago? No, Don's from New York. How were you meeting these guys?

Who else did you pitch? He was at the Cloister in Chicago. Don Adams. I'd seen him on television. So there was a period where you were going to be a comedy writer, and you'd go out and try to pitch gags to guys. Only to Don Adams. That's the only one. Because he stole it. So there was a period where you were going to be a comedy writer and you'd go out and try to pitch gags to guys. Only to Don Ed.

That's the only one. Because he stole it. And he did me a favor because, well, I said, well, if they're going to steal it, I may as well do it myself. So that was your one experience in writing jokes. Comedy writer. The guy just took it. All right, kid, it's a good idea. I can't use it.

I'll tell you what happened. I did it for him. Yeah. And he was staying at the Mayflower Hotel in the Cloisters. Uh-huh. And I stood up and did the submarine commander for him. He said, I'm trying to get away from that particular character, but so here's my address and keep in touch.

So I'm at home and I'm watching the Steve Allen show. And he comes on. And he's doing the Submarine Commander. And I'm yelling at the TV. That's mine! That's mine! He did the whole bit?

He did the guts of it. Yeah that one part that wasn't that you weren't able to put on the record so so when i made the record i took that part out right because i i was afraid people were going to say oh he stole that from so that was still that was an issue with that generation of comics at the beginning this idea of the bits being you know yours yeah especially if they were original i, there's a difference between an old joke and a unique take on something, and everyone was aware of that. And also, the darkness, see, that's the other thing.

It started to drive me nuts when I was coming over here and thinking about talking to you, is that I think that most people know you from the television shows, and that you made these seminal, amazing records, and there's a darkness to it, there's a cut,'s a bite to it you know you were sticking it to them you had a point of view i mean that the the ledge psychology bit even as simple as that like i don't know that you know anyone was humanizing these you know because it reminded me you know that bit that lenny did about

the guy who put his mother on the plane with the insurance policy you know so like there's this idea where you you got this story where a cop he's going to talk a guy off the ledge and he doesn't but not appear to right right right he's got to play it cool yeah not yeah and you think it's all going well where'd that guy go you know that there's there's a darkness to that. But you finally talk them out of it, and then you're going to disappoint a lot of people. Yeah, right. Some of them, they've been on there two, three hours.

They need a show. Again, you're attacking those strange people down there. Who were expecting the blood. Who were expecting, yeah. Right, yeah. Yeah, it was amazing. So you do these three records almost back to back, and now all of a sudden out of nowhere, without being run down by the road,

I think that you were given a gift in that. Do you think your point of view could have survived as just going out and doing nightclubs without the amazing sort of success that happened all at once? No, no, I don't think so. Could you have handled it? No, because I did it.

Yeah. I mean, when I played the Houston, the Tidelands, and then there was about three months before the record came out, so I played a club in Windsor, Ontario, Canada, and it's across from Detroit. As an unknown.

Yeah. The record had not come out. Right. And died every night. I died two shows a night for a week. And the Canadians are very nice people. I mean, they didn't yell anything. They just, they'd occasionally look up and up and, oh, he's still on.

Nothing. Nothing. Not a snicker. In the States, too? No. Then I went to another club in Winnipeg, and it went great. Yeah. Because at Windsor, I was thinking of going back to a county.

Right. Because I wasn't going to spend the rest of my life standing on the stage with no one paying any attention to me and not laughing. It's the same material that was a hit four months later. So you learned a lesson there somehow. Yeah, I'm not sure what it is. All right, so now you're a comic.

I'm a comedian. Yeah, stand-up comic. Stand-up comic, okay. Stand-up comedian. Stand-up comic, okay. Stand-up comedian. Stand-up comedian. Jack Benny once said, a comic says funny things. A comedian says things funny.

Okay. Okay? Yeah. And you do the Winnipeg show. You got your road chops in in between recording your record and the release of the record. And you went through a dark night between Winnipeg and Windsor. A very condensed experience.

And then this record blows up, and now you're a made guy. You're one of the guys. Now, I've got to assume that a lot of guys were like, who the hell is this guy? Yeah, because they didn't know. I wasn't part of, you know, oh, I ran into him. Yeah, he followed me. Right, all the comics.

There were hundreds of comics. I said, who, yeah, I didn't know any of them. Right, where the hell did this guy come from? I knew him by reputation, but I didn't know him. I mean, the one benefit of it is, and the miracle of it is, is that, as we said before, if you would have just started out on the road,

who the hell knows what your style would have become. So now your record becomes popular exactly the way you wanted to do it. And now people are like, we want to see that guy. And they're coming out to see it. It's an amazing gift. You didn't get all beaten up.

Because it's all attitude. Right. It's all attitude right it's all and yep and if you were out there you know grinding away trying to make you know entertain people as an unknown you might you might not ever come up with what you might never arrived at what you want to hell with it I'm not I'm not gonna go to this cut out for this so what happens like he must have just been like a rocket you must have just been like you know overnight almost it was crazy it was just crazy then it was a hungry eye then it

was the crescendo yeah and you're meeting all the guys who are you meeting like well i'm no i'm not meeting all the guys i met him as i go along i'm me buddy hackett oh my god he was so funny yeah yeah inventive so inventive just like, but he's just, he was one of my favorites. Like when I was a kid, I sent him, I sent away for his autographed picture. Did he send it?

Yeah. Somebody sent it. You're one of the lucky ones. Somebody sent it. My grandmother loved him. You know, she'd go to Vegas a lot, my grandmother.

She'd see Shaggy Green, Buddy Hackett, Rickles. What she said about Rickles was funny. She'd say, he's very meancky Green, Buddy Hackett, Rickles. What she said about Rickles was funny. She'd say, he's very mean, nasty. But after the show, he apologizes very nicely to everybody. And she loved Buddy Hackett.

But what first started to happen? Because we're talking 1961. It's still 10 years before the bob newhart show where america you know gets to know you as a television personality so so what happens you know i know you did uh you know d martin show a lot you did sullivan yeah you know you did um i'm getting calls yeah the record explodes and i got a call you want to want to do six Ed Sullivan's or eight Ed Sullivan's? I'm like, what the hell's going on? I don't know, just like that.

But I'm enjoying the hell out of it. Right. And how do you record the other two records within two years? How does that happen? Did you just get manic and just start jamming? No, it was a flow. It just kept coming out. As you were performing more? No, it was a flow. It just kept coming out.

As you were performing more? Yeah. I'd get a germ of an idea and then I'd expand on it and say, oh, okay, that's starting to work. I'll throw that in tomorrow night and I'll add this until you had a bit. And then you started to, it seemed

to me that you started to enjoy acting characters. I watched some of this stuff with dean martin it just looked like you guys were having so much fun we were we were i mean how how many times did you work well he's he never i did i did 24 deans because greg knew that who's greg greg garrison who produced oh right yeah the dean martin yeah he said why don't you take some of your routines and and include dean because dean dean came in sunday that was it you know that's the day they shot yeah that's the day he came in around noon one o'clock he so he played golf in the morning he came in around noon, 1 o'clock. So he'd play golf in the morning. Now, sometimes he'd be in his dressing room,

and they'd have a camera, a TV set, and he'd watch it and see what he was supposed to do. Other times he'd get involved. So I'd do the thing with the hairpiece. He had never seen it. So when I started doing it, now it breaks him up about returning their hairpiece so he was a great audience he's a great audience because he he wasn't a rehearsal no no he just it's just funny to him so so greg said we i need a short thing at the front, you and Dean. I said, okay.

I'm a plate act. Plate act, you know, with the sticks. But I'm from Europe, Eastern Europe. So Dean said, we're very lucky to have one of the great plate acts of Eastern Europe with us, Gregor, somebody, whoever I am. Gregor, nice. whoever I am. Gregor, nice thing. Thank you very much, Mr. Martin. He said, I'd love to have you. Would you do your famous plate act for the people?

I said, I lost the plates. I said, I took the plane. The sticks and the plates are lost. I don't know where they went. He said, well, could you do it anyway? I said, do it without the plates? Yes, could you do it without the plates? You want me to do the show without the plates?

That's all. I said, yeah, that's all. There's nothing. There are no plates. He's just spitting mime plates. I don't know. It's funny. If a plate head loses his plates, what has he got?

And Dean was just cracking up. That was a challenge every week to break Dean up. Was it hard? No, no. I never knew that about him, but that makes so much sense because he was so in the moment. Oh, yeah. He would finish something, and then Greg would be there. Gene, you walk over here.

And then he'd just show up? And just read those cards, which is what he was doing with me. He was just reading the cards over my shoulder. Great entertainer, though. Oh. Yeah. Yeah. So in that decade there, you were doing Vegas.

Prior to, yeah, prior to the. To the TV show. Yeah. So you're doing Vegas, and you got a family. You got a wife. Yeah. And that must have been a strain. Was it?

Well, they wouldn't go on. Well, they'd go on the road with me, too. Yeah. But mostly I'd play Vegas, and they'd come up. Right. But then on Sunday night, they'd go home. Jenny and the kids wouldn't go home because they had to go to school. Right.

But then they'd come up Friday night. It was as normal a life as you could have as an entertainer. Yeah. So you weren't doing the road, per se. Yeah, still doing the road. And what about the Variety Show? How did that come about? The Variety Show was the result of the record album.

The first one, again. Yeah, the first one. That was 61 to 60. So there was a feeding frenzy. This guy. We've got to get this guy let's get him on television yeah there were some very good shows in there i wasn't very good i i was fine it was a it was a monologue girl singer guy singer a sketch actor sometimes

charles lawton then random charles what he's the guy you remember anyway charles wotton was there i think one day charles bronson before he was charles bronson and we do a sketch i was terrible in the sketches i just i'm so used to i'm so used to peopling right the monologue with people and then there are these people that i know he doesn't look like the guy i thought that i made up that's in my head so you had trouble making the jump from solo to in interacting sketches yeah to sketches yeah i had plus the fact at the end of the first year they were going to renew the show it was borderline it was yeah they said but you've got to make some changes uh you have to get rid of the announcer dan sorkin i said no no the radio

guy the radio you brought him along he was my he was my announcer yeah i said no no you did him a solid that's a loyalty thing i guess so i guess so well he was i love knowing that people like take care of their friends well if he hadn't yeah he played the record for warner brothers i'd yeah no i get it yeah yeah so i said plus the fact that that i was doing a monologue every week 33 monologues and they weren't of the quality they occasionally were of the quality but they weren't of the quality of the record of the stuff that you wrote alone yeah so you had writers i writers and i'm writing sure of course of course but the pressure of every week right is so that to me the quality of the monologue was so and you have a very specific style it's not like you're just

doing jokes off the news. I mean, these are elaborate bits. Your monologues are probably one bit, right? Yeah. That's a different game. At one time, I wasn't getting along with a producer at that time. So I went home to Chicago at Christmas time. This is

how naive I am. I call up my manager, Frank Hogan. I said, Frank, why don't you call NBC? I really don't want to do this anymore. So why don't they put in another show? And I'll just

do college concerts. Well, the next thing I know, a vice president of MCA has flown into Chicago. No, you can't do it that way. You just, you can't say, you can't say this isn't working out. Bob doesn't enjoy this as much as he thought he would. So can you just put something else

in there? That's what I thought. They sent the heavies. And now they see their commission going away because they don't own the next show that they're going to replace. So I make it to

I did 33 shows. So after the vice president, if he held your ground, the next guy would have had brass knuckles and lived near you in Chicago. We got a guy here. Maybe talk some sense in this new art character. Okay, so I'm going in. They're talking about renewing me.

I'm thinking, do I really want to do another 33 shows, a good monologue every week? And then they said Dan Sorkin, and then I said, no, I don't want to. So that's incredibly bold. You realize the integrity of what you do. Or stupid. Yeah, but do you have regrets about it at that time? No, no.

Because you're making money on the road making everything well everything is turned out right great but the reasons were you know the integrity of what you do and and you know the sort of like the treatment of your friend you know i mean that was you know those are those are big artistic choices there's nothing worse than saying lines you you know that you that you know aren't right they're not funny and then and then you got a bunch of people saying like just just do the joke you know it's not a it's a it's a funny joke it's funny enough what do you what you gotta go crazy for as you're doing as you're writing a new routine they're saying funny funny yeah yeah it's great that's funny yeah yeah not no change of expression there's a producer over at Conan funny idea funny idea

and if you actually make them laugh it's like oh my god if that's what you're really laughing like you've been bullshitting me for what five a year now that's the first time you laughed it's like you're walking down the street you know and you come to a corner of a building

and you hear this terrible noise and you turn around and you see this safe has fallen and just missed you by about three feet. Yeah. And that's your life. Oh, my God. I almost got that. That's it. So then you're just, you know, for those years you're doing TV. You know, this is after the Variety show.

You're doing the Martin show. Do you feel like you're part of you know, for those years you're doing TV. You know, this is after the Variety show. You're doing the Martin show. Do you feel like you're part of the crew at some point? Like you're doing Johnny's show a lot and you're doing the Martin show. I mean, you're hanging out with Buddy Hackett, with Don Rickles and Shecky Green. Now I'm getting to know, especially in Vegas, you'd get to know opening acts and you'd get to know closing acts. And who are some of the guys you worked with that you really got close to? Well, Shecky, Don, Buddy. Do you talk to Shecky still?

I saw Shecky. I did a date last year in the Springs. I saw Shecky. Yeah? Is it good to see these guys after so long? Oh, yeah, yeah. I wish I had seen him when he

he was he just make it up he just he just walk on stage and just start making it up and kill heard great stories

like he Vegas they wanted you they wanted the opening act to do a half an hour and the closing act to do an hour and that's what they wanted

they didn't want 31 from the opening act or half an hour and the closing act to do an hour and and that's what they wanted they didn't want 31 from the opening act or or an hour and one from they wanted an hour that's all because they wanted to get the people back in the casino right so shecky is in the lounge at the the riviera he sort of invented lounge comedy didn't yeah yeah? Yeah, yeah. And the lounge at this point is a small showroom. It's beautiful. Right. And so he's in the middle of his act. So he's gone over the hour.

So they start turning out the lights. And he's on stage. So he takes a match. He lights it. He does the rest of his acting. He seemed like a pretty exciting character. Oh, yeah. And Buddy Hackett Live was amazing, too, huh?

I saw Buddy one time. It was just, he came out and he said, I was talking to Joe Kelman. I knew Joe Kelman. Joe Kelman was a guy in Chicago. He had a glass company. And I got married

to Sherry, my wife Sherry. Sherry Dubois was her name. Sherry Dubois. Her actual name was Esther Cohen, but she changed her name

to Sherry Dubois. So I tried to and he goes on and he does his bits and now 20 minutes in he says oh, what was I talking about? And the audience as one person says

Joe Kelman. Oh yeah, Joe Kelman. And I think, you son of a bitch. You knew exactly where you were. But you made it look like he was making it up. It's a good trick. Great. But you always stuck by the script of what you did.

You didn't improvise much or you didn't like it? I'll tell you a story. I had a thing. Because I started really at the top. Most comics start the opening act for 10, 15 years. But in the back of their minds, when I make it, I'm going to buy a Maserati, and I'm going to buy the home in Beverly Hills. And I started at the top.

So I've got to learn at the top. I've got to learn my craft at the top because I don't know my craft. Right. Yet. So every night in Vegas, I peek through the curtains to check out the audience. And, oh, it looks like a trouble table. Yeah, he's drunk. He's going to be trouble.

Oh, shit, there's a woman over there. She's going to be trouble. You feel it, don't you? Huh? Yeah. Every show. It's a ritual. Yeah.

So I'm talking to my manager, and I hear my bow music. I thought, I haven't looked through the curtains yet. And I thought to myself, well, I'll handle it. Whatever happens, I'll handle it. Yeah. That was a big shift. That's when I knew. I learned.

I feel that, too. You go in the room, and you're like, there's a bad energy. What's happening right there, that's going to be the problem. Sometimes they're not, though. No. You know, they're just people. Some of them know how to behave. Some of them realize they're at a show.

Yeah. I'm surprised. And now, after 53 years, there's a respect that they don't sure they don't yell up at you the reason i had a problem with drunks or hecklers because i'm in the middle of something i'm in the middle of the rocket scientist and now there's some drunk and he's yelling out something now i got to go outside the bit to put him down somehow and then get back in into the bit so that ruins the continuity yeah yeah and sometimes depending back into the bit. It ruins the continuity. Yeah.

And sometimes, depending on how the crowd work goes, it's hard to get back into the bit. Yeah. But you've had to do that. That's why I hated it. Yeah. And that's why I look for the trouble.

But even if you look for the trouble, even if you see them, you're just preparing yourself. You still can't stop anything from happening. Of course. Of course. I didn't realize you guest hosted The Tonight Show so much. Yeah. Yeah. That was it. Like, that's unheard of now.

No one does that. Everyone's so afraid of losing their job. No one would ever think. 87 times or something. Yeah. And Johnny would just, what, you'd just get a call? I mean, your relationship with Johnny was good? Were you guys friends?

Yeah. No, we were friends. Oh, okay. Good friends, yeah. And he was a hilarious guy. Oh, quick, yeah. And he just trusted you with that gig. It seemed like there was only a few people during that period.

Well, see, here's what he would do to me. Yeah. You go to a pre-interview. Yeah. You're going to do Johnny's show. Right, right. Pre-interview. Yeah. You're going to do Johnny Schultz. Right, right. Pre-interview. Just came back from a trip with Rickles.

Has a funny story about Don in Venice. Okay, that's the first. Second one, just has a new dog. Has funny stories about dog in the house. Ladies and gentlemen, Bob Newhart. Come sit down next to Johnny yeah did you ever go skeet shooting

and I'd look at him like you son of a bitch you know I have nothing on skeet shooting what are you doing and he'd have this kind of smile on his face but he trusted me and we'd make something out of it but he did that all the time.

Oh, that's hilarious. And, of course, what I loved is when he came out and died. Yeah. And would call the mic, see if the mic's on. Yeah. He invented something. I'll tell you that. And did you like doing that?

Do you like hosting or anything? Yeah, yeah. It was a a challenge but it was so powerful i mean in plugging appearances you know um so yeah so you you fill up places but i did it for three weeks one time in new york i filled in for johnny he was having salary disputes with NBC. So they were looking for people who maybe would take Johnny's place. But he knew that? Yeah, oh sure.

This is in the 70s. Did you have to ask him first? He said, I know you're into contracting. No, no, I was just kind of aware of it. No one ever said it, but it was kind of in the... So I did it for three weeks. The writers took the three weeks off because i'm not going to fire a writer right you know so they would give me three bad jokes and

then then they work on their play so i've got 18 bad jokes so i'm at the end of three weeks I'm a I'm a basket case I'm brain dead yeah and and the man did it for 30 years I did it for three weeks I'm and I'm exhausted yeah it takes a special person to do that oh yeah yeah do that show it's it's it's insane dedication that's yeah incredible and when in terms of movie acting, it seems like you did a lot of, you know, a few meaty parts, but you'd show up and they'd know exactly.

It seemed like people, when they cast you, they were like, well, Newhart would be good for this. Yeah. Right. And you didn't really do really serious parts

until fairly recently right on television. Yeah. Do you like doing that? It depends on the project. Right, right, yeah i mean i i never studied acting right i mean i was in that group but i wasn't never really studying what was that group did it have a name just a park playhouse oh okay wasn't the second second

no no suburb of chicago right and we were doing Pygmalion and those kind of plays. With no guidance. Just a director. No. And I played very cheap sets, you know, that barely held up through the performance. Yeah. Someone sat in them and they broke and fell apart. But Catch-22 was a big role.

Oh, yeah. And that was a bizarre movie. And a great movie, a great story. Mike Nichols directed it. That's right. Did you know Mike previous to that? No, I only knew of Mike through Mike and Larry. And then, of course, when he started directing.

The cast on that was astounding. Yeah, yeah. And when you did that, did you feel like your movie career was going to really take off? That's an odd... Mike came to us and said, you're all figments of Yossarian's imagination. You don't actually exist.

You're figments of Yossarian's imagination. Which is the catch-22 of I want to get out of... You've got to be crazy to fly. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But if you're crazy, then you're not crazy. Right, right, right, right.

Because everybody does. So I didn't, frankly, I didn't know what the hell Mike was talking about. So I just played it for laughs. I just played major, major, major. I made it funny. Yeah, it was funny. Now you're seasoned.

You can act. You're one of the guys. Before I get to that, was there resentment of you coming in as green as you were from other comics? Did you feel that at all? Probably. green as you were from other comics did you feel that at all probably that's good that's diplomatic a little bit maybe i just know comics and i got to assume you're taking some you're taking a bit of a bit of shit here and there. Yeah. I won't tell you who the comic was,

but he could be on a, he could be in Venice for six months staying at a beautiful hotel, great money, sitting, reading Variety, and cast, I would have been perfect for that.

Yeah. And he's mad. Yeah, right, sure, yeah. And perfect, that would have been perfect for that. And he's mad. Yeah, right, sure, yeah. Perfect, I would have been perfect for that. I had a friend who used to call the TV the resentment box. You look at, how the hell did that guy get that? I guess it never changes, you know know it's a tough business so the opportunity had you been given other opportunities to do sitcoms before that before the bob newhart show and you were just too busy on the road or didn't want to do it i don't think so i don't know i i don't i don't remember i um maybe yeah but they didn't I read them and they didn't seem right.

So how did this come about? This came about because MTM was founded by Mary Tyler Moore, Grant Tinker, and Arthur Price. Arthur Price was my manager. So he came to me and this Mary's show was a big hit. He said, would you like to do a television show? And I said, yeah. He said, you know, you get off the road, you know, and have a normal life. Yeah. Just drive over to Burbank or wherever. Yeah. And he said, okay, okay. So he said, I got a couple writers, and Dave Davis, Lorenzo Music,

and the three of us sit down and kind of knock out what you'd like to do. So we started talking about, okay, based on the writer, Bob listens to people well. He's a very good listener. Okay, what's a very good listener. Okay, who, what's a profession where people listen?

Psychiatrists. I said, well, I said, psychiatrists really, they deal with seriously ill schizophrenics. And much as I would like to get my humor from schizophrenics.

I don't think America's ready for it yet. So then we said, maybe a psychologist. Yeah, okay, psychologist. They do kind of lesser disturbed people. Right. Then we started casting. Then we saw... Bill Daley?

Well, I knew Bill from Chicago. Bill wasn't in the original. The original pilot was Susie. Susie was on... She was on The Tonight Show with Johnny. And my manager, Arthur Price, had seen... He said, I think I found your wife. Comedian.

I didn't know she was missing. think I found your wife comedian I didn't know she was missing yeah he said Susanna said Susanna be great I said I didn't think she'd want to do weekly television he said well I'll make a phone call and so she said that she said yes so then we built the show around the condominium that we stayed in in Chicago and the condominium meetings. And we shot that pilot. Between that time, then we reshot it. We shot it with Bill Daly, Mrs. Paley, or Bill Paley, who ran the network, owned the network, had seen her on a Merv Griffin show.

She'd be very funny on What's-His-Name's show. Your show. Bill Paley. You were What's-His-Name. One of many What's-His-Names. So I had worked with Peter on... Peter Bonner's? Peter Bonner's on Sketch 22.

And I knew we were going to do the show... So who was Paley talking about, Marshall Wallace? Marshall Wallace, yeah. So I knew we were going to do the show in front of a live audience, which every show did. So I knew we needed people who were used to live audiences because as a stand-up, I was used to live. Peter was in the committee up in San Francisco.

Marsha had done some acting. Susie, of course, had done a lot. Never done, well, she had done Broadway, but serious stuff, you know. never done well she had done broadway but serious stuff you know yeah um and bill daly bill was doing stand-up about the same time i was doing stand-up um so so we we we shot the show with those people at it yeah i was wondering because i was going through the first disc and then like the second disc starts with a pilot. I think it's in the... It is in there.

It's in there, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So now you've got this great cast of characters, and then you've got the recurring cast of the people in the group sessions and the patients. The fellow who played Mr. Carlin, who was amazing. What was his name? Jack Riley. Unbelievable.

Was he a comic? No. He wasn't a stand-up. Uh-huh. Unbelievable. Was he a comic? No, he wasn't a stand-up. No, he was part of what I call the Cleveland Mafia, which was Pat McCormick. Oh, yeah. He was funny. Jack Riley. Uh-huh. Tim Conway. Uh-huh. Ernie Anderson. Anyway, these guys, anyway, he was... They were out here. Yeah, Jack was more an actor than a stand-up, yeah. So funny. Great character.

Is he still around? Yeah, yeah. And so that's how history was made, is that you were set up because you were good. Listening is one way to put it, but I think reactor. You're great. That's the other word they use. Yeah.

Bob reacts to that. Yeah. And that's sort of like, I guess that's where the comparisons to Benny come from, that you have that moment, that take, that's very specific to you. I don't see a real correlation, but it's just a comic thing.

They say I have his timing, but you can't teach somebody timing. No, that's the weird thing. What Jack was, was he was brave. He was one of the bravest. Oddly, Jack Benny, with his walk and all that, was one of the bravest comedians who ever lived. Really?

Because he would take the time. He wasn't afraid of silence or quiet or anything. That's a lot of lessons that we learn from that. To own it. Yeah. And decide your own pace. I'll tell you a story about it. Dick Martin told me this story.

From Rowan and Martin? Rowan and Martin. Yeah. Jack is appearing at the Sahara in Las Vegas. Uh-huh. The opening act is the Wilmest Trail with Sammy Davis Jr. Uh-huh. Okay.

They come out. They open for Jack. Destroyed the audience. They're screaming, standing on the tables, pounding. They go up. Jack comes up. He said, aren't they wonderful? Aren't they just wonderful?

He said, in the afternoon, sometimes I'll have some tea. Usually around, I don't know, 4, 4.30 in the afternoon. Quarter of 5. 5. Sometimes 5. quarter five. Five. Sometimes five. And I was in a movie with this actor

and I can't remember his... Oh, I promised Sammy Davis he could do another... Would you mind if Sammy... Coming out of Birth of the Blues destroyed. now you thought they destroyed them the first time they're pounding on the tables jack watches them go off clive clive that was his name

did he pull him around yeah killed it yeah oh's amazing that's brave yeah that's brave yeah yeah it's a hell of a reset after a big musical act i bet so the that show the bob newhart show i think set it sort of set the standard for a comedian being in a sitcom in a way kind of yeah i, yeah. I mean, it was like revolutionary. I mean, Mary Tyler Moore was one thing. That was an ensemble cast. But to build a show around a stand-up, it seems to me that was one of the first ones, really,

of that model. Yeah, I think so. Because you didn't have to spend six episodes explaining who the guy was. You knew who Cosby was when he walked on. You knew who the guy was. Right. You know, you knew who Cosby was when he walked on. You knew who Roseanne was. You knew who... Yep.

And that all happened after you. And you were obviously, you know, comfortable with the material and the character and you liked your writers. Yeah. Now, were there, was it a struggle at all to sort of honor your voice and, you know, how much did you have influence in that? Well, I had total control if I wanted to. Right.

You know, if I wanted to exercise it. Yeah, yeah. In the sixth year of the show, and I had already said that was going to be the end of the show, the sixth year of the Bob Newhart show, they came to me with a script where Suzanne is pregnant. Now, I had specified in the very first show I didn't want to have children. That isn't the kind of show I wanted to do. So in the hopes that maybe I would consider not ending the show with the sixth year

and maybe going to the seventh or eighth, that maybe if they introduce Suzanne's pregnant and has a baby. So I read this over the weekend. And so Mike Zinberg, the producer, calls me. He said, did you get the script? I said, yes, I read it. He said, what did you think? Very funny.

I said, it's a very funny script. He said, oh, good, because we were worried. We didn't know if you'd like it. I said funny i said it's very funny script he's so good because we were worried we didn't know if you'd like it yes it's very funny i said who are you going to get to play bob so that was that so it's there the power is there if you choose to exercise or not it's yeah right and you know it's there but that wasn't your thing they knew and you know there was never so that ran for what six six and that was it yeah and that was enough yeah it's just uh it's a feeling it's just okay yeah i think and and they were okay with stopping it they weren't thrilled right yeah the network wasn't thrilled right um so now the next show which happened what what few years later four years i think later yeah and you just wanted to keep working

doing the tv no i knew i was going back to television yeah i just i i loved the medium i just i enjoyed it i understood it. There was a normalcy to it. You had a job. Job? You go home and have normal hours. Yeah. That went for like what, eight years? Eight. That went eight, yeah. The first two were kind of shaky. We were feeling our way. And then the second year we brought in Julia Duffy, who was wonderful, and then Peter Scolari. Tom Poston was in from the Bob Newark show.

Yeah, from the Newark show. Yeah, he was the peeper. Yeah. And then it took off. But the first couple years were kind of... But they held in. They stayed with you. Yeah.

Because I think a loyalty to me and Larry, Daryl, and Daryl. Those were the guys. You had a hell of a job as a straight man with that crew, huh? Well, whenever they came in, I was always behind the counter putting keys away or something. putting keys away or something because there was going to be about 30, 40 seconds of applause when they came in. And when they left, there would be 30, 40 seconds. People loved them. The first show they came in, we had a witch was buried in the basement of the inn.

And I called Larry, Daryl, and Darryl not knowing who they were. I said we have a problem and we need someone to come over. They formed a company called Anything for a Buck. That was what they were known as. And I said well I need somebody to dig something up in our basement. They said well we're very busy, and we couldn't make it until like next Friday. I said, I'm sorry, we need somebody before that.

He said, just out of curiosity, what is it? I said, it's a dead witch that's buried in our basement. He said, well, we'll be right over. So he comes in. Hi, I'm Larry. This is my brother Darrell. This is my other brother Darrell. And the audience goes crazy.

I said, how are you doing? He said, I hurt my back. I said, oh. He said, it sounds like, how'd you hurt your back? He said, crawling under a house. I said, oh, it sounds like rough work. He said, it wasn't work. I just enjoy crawling around their houses.

That guy was funny. What was his name? Bill Sanderson. Yeah. So that goes into syndication. The Bob Newhart show goes into syndication. Where were you at mentally? Were you done?

Were you sort of retired from television in your mind? Had you done enough? Yeah, kind of. Yeah. had you done enough yeah yeah kind of yeah I my feeling was I'd say no I still have my fastball no right which actually it's a change-up yeah it's not a fastball and they wanted me for show I didn't well no I came back it didn't work that was Bob right it was kind of the idea was we want to give them a bob newhart they'd never seen well the audience didn't want to see a bob newhart

too late in the game for that so that didn't work then george and leo they talked me into george and leo they came to me and said you have to you have to um that didn't work and but you were still doing stand-up dates occasionally yeah sure you still do it now i do about yeah about 20 a year how'd they go you love it still yeah i hate getting there yeah hate the flying do you generate new stuff or no well some they want to hear i usually do i'll do one i'll do a driving instructor or so while we're all here one of the old because i know that's where some of the people want to hear that didn't you do a special that was like in the 90s that was really really... At the Raymond Theater, all the... The first, those three records.

The first, yeah, pretty much. It's amazing. But live. Right. In front of an audience. Right, right. As opposed to on a record. That's 35 years after, right?

Yeah. And all those bits, I imagine, held up really well. Yeah, that was amazing. The only one that seems dated is the automaton one you know the machines well and khrushchev khrushchev sure right right because no one has a point of reference for it but i mean i thought that the the the machine one was was prescient i mean it was you know it did happen not exactly that way well that depends on how america feels about the military at that

point. Oh okay. Whether they like them or don't like them. Yeah, yeah. How did you weather the 60s when everything kind of blew open? I mean because you just were sort of you know on your own trajectory but it seemed like you know you got guys like Carlin and you got guys like you know you know Pryor in the late 60s that really kind of locked into that. Because that wasn't who I was. Yeah. I just you know, prior in the late 60s that really kind of locked into that. Because that wasn't who I was. Yeah. I just, you know, I'm a comedian.

I'm a stand-up comedian. Right. But... You didn't feel pressure. I don't inform people. Right. Well, I do, but... Yeah.

I do it very quietly. I do it... Who am I? Right, right. That's kind of my attitude. And you know, like looking back on all of it, you know, in all the comedy, because you seem to be a tremendous fan of comedy, which I love. Oh yeah. And you know, you bring up Pryor.

Oh, he's... The best, right? Genius, yeah. No question about it. Here's what Pryor did for me. I made this comparison before. I got the Mark Twain Award. Pryor was the first recipient of the Mark Twain Award. Yeah. And what Pryor did and Mark Twain did are virtually the same things. Twain wrote about life on the Mississippi, life on the frontier really, 1900. The Mississippi

was the frontier in many ways. Richard did life in the inner city. The thing that always struck me about him outside of the you know, the bits, was his vulnerability as a performer. Like, you know, there was a sort of a real tangible kind of emotional rawness to him that, you know, you felt like a lot of stuff was really happening in that moment and that, you know, he was really putting his heart out there. Yeah.

And, um... Painful stuff, too. Oh, yeah. When you read about his life. But you read, he does the African-American minister. Yeah. The African-American minister in the black community occupies a position that pastors and ministers,

they don't occupy in the white community. They are much more of a force. Yeah, the weight he brought to that thing. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. George Slaughter had some kind of, you know, the comedy awards or something. Yeah, yeah, the comedy awards, right. I presented him with the award.

Then Richard looks at me and he said, He said, I stole your album. I said, what did you say, Richard? He said, I stole your album, Peoria. I went in the rec store, put it in my jacket. With the first record? First record. So I said, well, you know, Richard, I get 25 cents an album.

He says, give me a quarter. Somebody got a quarter? Give me a quarter here. Here you go. He was something awesome no he was he's yeah

beyond yeah beyond you love comedy oh when I was I'd be in Vegas yeah

and it's I'm there for four weeks and I'm this is the third week and two shows a night and you're not sure what day it is yeah

and I'm getting ready to go on. Oh, God. Jenny would play me prior. Really? She put the record prior. Which one? Which album? Do you remember?

Any of them? Any one of them. Yeah. Mudbone is, it's uber comedy. It's beyond comedy. Yeah. It's Mark Twain. Right.

It's beyond comedy. Yeah. It's Mark Twain. Right. It's cultural. Yeah. It's a whole culture. Were you familiar with him before he became? Yeah, but I knew of him like when he was doing the road show Cosby stuff. Right. And he'd be on the Sullivan show. And he did Rage. I think he was a poet. Wasn't heivan's right and he did rage i think he was a poet

wasn't he a poet and he did stuff yeah yeah a very toned down i was in vegas and he was at a different place i think that's when he said screw it yeah it's no yeah screw it i'm this is what i'm going to do because i know he he attacked a guy in the front row who happened to be one of the executives for the Hughes Corporation. A guy named Dick Danner. And he said, what are you shaking your head for? And then he started doing, that's when he started doing what made him famous. And just talking about being black in Peoria

and the mother. You were in Vegas that night where he did that? Yeah, because I heard about it. Because they fired him on the spot. Right, and that's when he went to Berkeley and regrouped this whole thing. He said, this is what I'm going to do. I can't be this guy anymore. Yeah, I can't be a road company.

Yeah, yeah. But you know, you put prior you know on this uh you know in this other world rickles not is not thrilled about that but he would he would never hear this unless somebody rats on me and tells them well it's a different game you know like if you look back at you know and you still watch a lot of comics you know that's my favorite my favorite thing is seeing a letterman or something yeah great new comedian yeah yeah comes out and kills yeah yeah yeah wow that's because you can relate to it good luck yeah yeah yeah good luck just don't let it i tried it yeah yeah. But, you know, with comics, you want to see them and you don't

because you see one and then, like, two weeks later, you'll start doing a bit and it's all falling into place and you start saying, did I see this? Am I making this up or did I see this somewhere? It's true. You know, if you're immersed in it. And for a while, I wouldn't watch other comics for fear.

Because the new stuff that I came out with, the first album, it just flowed. It just how long do you want to make it? Right. You want to make it 12 minutes? You want to make it 8 minutes? Yeah, you do. You sort of have to keep away. But were you ever able to meet some of those other guys

like, you know, like did you ever have any contact with Lenny Bruce or Mort Sahl or those guys? I met Lenny a couple times, yeah. It seems like there's a line drawn between him and everything else. Not in a good way, necessarily. Like he was, you know, it seemed to me to the comic community, to some of them, they're like, that guy's just an overrated troublemaker. He was uneven, though. Lenny would be uneven.

Right. He would be just great one night. And then the next night he wouldn't be so great. And then he got into that whole assassination. Right. Oh, with the Kennedy assassination? Yeah, yeah. With Jackie trying to get out of the car.

Yeah, it was bold. No, he was, yeah, he was so, but he was a mixture of show business, chicky baby, and Yiddish. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, people don't realize how much Yiddish he spoke. It was all very second nature to him. And then the battle became the battle with drugs and with the authorities.

And that just crushed him. Now, if you were to, the other thing I want to ask you, now I know you did these two series, one for six seasons, one for eight seasons. You never won an Emmy. You got nominated a lot. And then you do you do some uh some uh big bang big bang theories and they give you the Emmy yeah was there a building bitterness about that no because um all right I did six years ages 14 years and then 15 15 counting the Bob Newhart show,

the variety show, and then 17 or 18 with Bob and George and Leo. So that's 18 years on television. I was nominated six or seven times. For several years, I didn't submit my name for the award because I didn't feel what I do doesn't get awards.

But that's all right because that's what I do. I'm not going to change what I do to get an award. So you're like, I'm not even going to put myself in the running. I didn't, yeah, for six years. So I've been nominated enough. I was beat by people who were very good. No, there was no, would I like to have had one? Yes.

Yeah. Yeah. And I have one now. Good, good. And you did SNL a couple times. That must have been fun. Twice, yeah. Yeah.

That's it. I think that, I think Lauren must have a tremendous amount of respect for you. I hope so. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah. That show was amazing. Yeah.

You know, to do it. I couldn't do it today. Right. Physically, to do it. And you work with Will Ferrell on Elf. That must have been. Elf. He's a very funny guy. I mean, he's got to be up there.

He also doesn't get a lot of credit for his role in Elf because that could have been just a big dumb guy who didn't get it. But it wasn't a big dumb guy. It was this very likable person who thought he was an elf.

Yeah. You know, it would have been very easy was this very likable person who thought he was an elf. Yeah. You know, it would have been very easy for that to, for people to say, oh, come on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's a special guy. Yeah. A very sweet guy.

But when he turned, he knows, he's one of those guys where I interviewed him. Low key, very amicable. And he's one of those guys where you sit and talk to him and you're kind of half-waiting. You know, like, when's he... Something's going to happen. I just don't get it. When's he going to...

I'm talking to him for an hour going, uh-huh, when are you going to do the funny thing? See, it's what we talked about off mic, which was to talk to somebody else who's done stand-up. It's just... You can't explain it. I know. Special club. Yeah, it's a very private club filled with a lot of crazy people.

That's for sure. Always, right? Who was the guy who committed suicide? Was it Jenny? Jenny. Yeah. I thought it was wonderful great great comic

great yeah who knows something something went wrong yeah you see it all the time and it's a lot of the same reason why we're comics

we don't fit in and whatever's going on out there ain't right for us and there's a certain amount of acceptance that's the beautiful thing

that's it it's like you know obviously for generations it's been true you got a bunch of loose screws out there and they're with us and you know what would be sort of overwhelming to just a regular working person is just a liability of our business oh yeah i know that guy he's out of his mind i wouldn't get into a car with him but you can eat with him you know that kind of stuff don't give him your phone number great act don't don't give him your phone number so that's been going on since the beginning yeah dick martin told me

this story dick martin does not he has never lied to me in his life yeah you think comics are crazy. Right. There's a ventriloquist named, if I remember, Pat Patrick. Mm-hmm. He's on a plane, a small plane. Yeah. With the dummy.

Yeah. He jumps out of the plane, leaves a note, the dummy did it. He killed himself? He killed himself. I hope that's true. I hope it's true too. So let's, like, I know the box set is out of the complete Bob Newhart show from the Shout Factory. I know that there's a few available of Newhart as well. The records are always available outside of the first three. You like seven right all together so yeah and one was a compilation i think

right now like looking back as i was saying the the mud bone bit now if you were to say one of one bit of yours that you thought was that's just the the gem the one you like doing the most or the one that you thought that was the best bit you ever wrote? What would it be? And I'll play it on the show. Okay. The cliche is which child do you love? Sure. Sophie's choice. But I like them for different reasons. I like the driving instructor because I think that's the one that pushed the record that drove

the first album. Very accessible. Yes. Yeah. I love the Submarine Commander. Yeah. It's the big cooperation where some guy gets to the top who's totally incompetent. I love Abe Lincoln because it says something that's even truer today than it was 53 years ago.

The focus groups and manipulation of... Sure. The people who are really running things. Yeah. Well, I got to tell you, it was a tremendous honor for me to talk to you. Thank you. And we got into great areas.

I appreciate it. That I love to get into. Well, thanks for talking, Bob. Sure. Thank you. Thank you very much. Many of you may have read The Hidden Persuaders. It's about advertising.

And one of the points the book made was that the real danger of the public relations man or the advertising man was that they were creating images. And they felt that in the presidential campaigns, the candidates were really getting closer and closer together. There was no real difference between them. And you were really voting for the man. And this got me to thinking,

supposing this science were as far advanced during the Civil War as it is today, and there was no Lincoln. Now, the advertising people realizing this would have had to create a Lincoln.

And I think they would have gone about it something like this. This is a telephone conversation between Abe and his press agent just before Gettysburg. Hi, Abe, sweetheart. How are you, kid? How's Gettysburg? Sort of a drag, huh? Well, Abe, you know them small Pennsylvania towns. You seen one, you seen them all. Right. Listen, Abe, I got the note.

What's the problem? You're thinking of shaving it off. Abe, don't you see that's part of the image? Right, with the shawl and the stovepipe and the string tie. You don't have the shawl. Where's the shawl, Abe? You're left to be more Washington what are you wearing Abe

a sort of cardigan Abe don't you see that doesn't fit with the string tie and the beard Abe would you leave the beard on and get the shawl now what's this about Grant you're getting a lot of complaints on Grant's drinking beard on and get the show. Now what's this about Grant? You're getting a lot of complaints on Grant's drinking, huh?

Abe, to be perfectly honest with you, I don't see the problem. I mean, you knew he was a lush when you pointed at him. You're gag writers. Yeah, you're gag writers. you want to come back with something funny maybe an anecdote about a town drunk well I can't promise anything

Abe I'll get him working on it Abe you got the speech Abe you haven't changed the speech have you Abe what do you change the speeches for a couple minor changes Abe, what do you change the speeches for? A couple minor changes, I'll bet. All right, all right, what are they? You what?

You typed it. Abe, how many times have we told you? On the backs of envelopes. I understand it's harder to read that way, Abe, but it looks like you wrote it on the train coming down or something Abe could you do this could you memorize it and then put it on the backs of the envelopes we're getting a lot of play in the press on that

how are the envelopes holding up you can stand in another box alright what else Abe you changed you changed four score and seven to to eighty seven

I understand I understand Abe that's meant to be a grabber Abe we test marketed that in Eerie and they went out of their minds well, Abe, it's sort of like Mark Anthony saying friends, Romans, countrymen

I've got something I want to tell you you see you see what I mean, Abe what else You see what I mean, Abe? What else? People will little note nor long remember. And what could possibly be wrong with that? They'll remember it.

They'll remember it. It's the old humble bit. You can't say it's a great speech. I think everybody's going to remember it it's the old humble bit you can't say it's a great speech I think everybody's going to remember it you come off a bragger don't you see that do the speech the way Charlie wrote it would you the inaugural address swung didn't it

anything else you talk to some newspaper men uh Abe I wish you wouldn't talk to newspaper men well you always

put your foot in no that's just what I mean Abe no no no no no you're a rail splitter then an attorney

Abe it doesn't make any sense that way I mean you wouldn't splitter than an attorney. Abe, it doesn't make any sense that way. You wouldn't give up your law practice to become a rail splitter, would you? Would you read the biography? You'll see a lot of trouble on this end. Abe, listen, before I forget, the manufacturer is coming out with the Abe Lincoln t-shirt

on Tuesday could you work that into the address somewhere play it by ear whatever you can do Abe have you got a pencil and paper there will you take this down you can fool all of the people some of the time

and some of the people all of the time but you can't all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time. But you can't fool all the people all the time. Well, you keep doing it differently. The last quote I got was, you can fool all the people all the time. Abe, hold on. They come up with a thing on Grant. Good.

Yeah, all beautiful. Abe, listen to this. They've got a beautiful squelch on Grant. The next time they bug you about Grant's drinking, you're going to find out what brand he drinks and send a case of it to all your other generals. No, no. It's like the brand was the reason he won. No, no, no, no.

Abe, use it, it's fine. Trust me on this one. Saturday night? Oh, Abe, I'm sorry, I'm going to be in this one Saturday night oh Abe I'm sorry I'm going to be in New York Saturday night a bridge party at the White House oh Abe I'd love to make it how about Seward you try him

he'll be out of town too oh that's you and what's your name Mary be home alone listen Abe why don't you take in a play you wouldn't, what's your name, be home alone? Mary, be home alone. Listen, Abe, why don't you take in a play? I'll be talking to you.

Go on. I just got done. I just got out of Bob Newhart's house. Now I'm driving home. What an amazing conversation. What an amazing history. What an amazing memory and clarity the guy had. And I was really happy and honored to talk to him. And I shut the equipment off. I was packing my bags and we were chatting. And then I went out to my car to get my phone to take a picture. And the phone had overheated, so i came back and i was waiting around and bob was uh you know showing me pictures that

were in his office you know it was a letter from president kennedy you know a picture of him and george burns picture of him and jack benny a picture at a at a party at buddy hackett's house with shecky green don rickles jerry vail Dom DeLuise, Norm Crosby, Norman Fell. You know, pictures. You know, it's just, you know, he's taking things off the wall. He's showing me pictures of the cast of both shows. What an amazing career. What a sweet guy.

You know, what an amazing life he had. And it really went differently than a lot of other comics I talked to. Just in terms of a guy who got these amazing opportunities. Based on not very much experience. But really showed up and was the real deal. It's a hell of a thing to start at the top and stay there. It was an amazing afternoon for me. And I'm happy to share it with you.

And I hope he's around for a long time. Okay, I'm going to... I should probably drive. And not talk on the mic. Okay. the mic okay it's a night for the whole family be a part of kids night when the toronto rock take on the colorado mammoth at a special 5 p.m start time on saturday march 9th at first ontario center in hamilton the first,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday,

March 9th at 5pm in Rock City at torontorock.com. Calgary is an opportunity-rich city home to innovators, dreamers, disruptors, and problem solvers. The city's visionaries are turning heads around the globe across all sectors each and every day. They embody Calgary's DNA. A city that's innovative, inclusive, and creative. And they're helping put Calgary and our innovation ecosystem on the map as a place where people come to solve some of the world's greatest challenges. Calgary's on the right path forward. Take a closer look out at calgaryeconomicdevelopment.com.