WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 527 - Wanda Sykes

Episode Date: August 24, 2014

Wanda Sykes is one of the funniest people alive. But Marc remembers Wanda when she was first starting out in the New York comedy clubs and says she was a completely different performer back then. Wanda tells Marc how she found her confidence and became more honest, in both her act and her life. Plus, Wanda explains what happened during her encounter with the President and First Lady. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton. The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5 p.m. in Rock City at torontorock.com. Calgary is a city built by innovators. Innovation is in the city's DNA. And it's with this pedigree that bright minds and future thinking problem solvers are tackling some of the world's greatest challenges from right here in Calgary.

From cleaner energy, safe and secure food, efficient movement of goods and people, and better health solutions, Calgary's visionaries are turning heads around the globe, across all sectors, each and every day. Calgary's on the right path forward. Take a closer look how at calgaryeconomicdevelopment.com. Lock the gates! All right, let's do this. How are you, fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fucking ears what the fuck sticks what the fuck's the bulls how are you i'm mark maron this is wtf i am very excited to tell you that today on the show uh wanda sykes who i've known for years who i actually saw when she started back in new y. And I'm excited to share this conversation I have with her because she's amazing. Now, let me just say one thing.

At the very end of the interview, it's literally the last four seconds of this interview, you'll hear a change in the audio. I had a little problem with the recording, which happens very rarely. But luckily, I had an external mic going, but it wasn't plugged into the board. But you'll be able to hear me and Wanda saying goodbye, so don't be jarred. Don't think that I don't know what's happening. All right?

Okay, so prepare yourself for nothing. Four seconds, but I just want you to know that I'm aware of it. So what is happening? All right, well, I went down to Charlotte. This would be about a week ago. I got back every time I go to the American South and I like to call it that it gives us some historical context. I am enamored with it. I usually want to stay there. I usually I think I'd like to move here. There's something about it. There's something about whatever held it back initially. And I do think that they are progressing culturally, about whatever held it back uh initially and i do think that they are

progressing culturally but whatever held it back and whatever however it was judged for all these years has actually made it remain somewhat charming uh very charming it doesn't seem completely mollified it does seem to have some rural appeal it seems that that people seem to to actually integrate the cities uh from all levels, from all types of lives. I don't see that too much. I mean, I see it a little in L.A., but it's not as intimate here because it's all spread out. So I don't really know what's happening. You're in your car.

But I'm always sort of charmed and excited to be down south. I also had an exciting food experience. I also had an exciting food experience. Many of you know what I call the southern shame spiral that I enter while I'm in the south and usually for three days to a week after getting back from the south because of what I've eaten in the south. There's no way you're going to get out of North Carolina without being well cobblered. Yeah, there's a cobbler situation down there. I was down there for Oddball Fest, and the craft services or the catering at the venue at the amphitheater

had two kinds of cobbler and vanilla ice cream, so there was really no reason to eat dinner. Cobbler will happen. Grits will happen. Biscuits has to happen. Biscuits and gravy, you can do that. You're going to do that. Just accept it. This trip, collard greens happened. Mac and cheese definitely happened. Bacon cupcakes, bacon caramel apple cupcakes were brought to me. I'd like to thank that woman

and also tell her that my life is going to be shorter because of her. I believe it was worth it. I'm on the fence about that, but I ate them. Okay, so here's the story. I'm at this diner in Charlotte, North Carolina, and I'm about to order my two eggs over hard with grits and a biscuit. I'm about to order those. I know some of you are saying really over hard. What kind of horrible person are you? Who would eat eggs over hard? I'll tell you who. A guy who doesn't like runny fucking yolks. All right. Some days I can do it. Some days I can't. Some days I can't get past the fact that they're runny. I don't mind over hard eggs. I don't need to dip my fucking toast in yellow goo all right i like to eat my eggs over hard i feel better when they're cooked i don't mind

it and then i can put them on a biscuit without it running all over everything there's something gross about yolks quite honestly there's something gross about eggs and and and just get off my back all right over hards how I go. All right? Unless I'm feeling adventurous and feeling like, no, maybe over medium would be nice with a little goo to them. Sometimes I'll take a little goo, but not full goo. All right, so I'm looking at the menu at this place, and I'm looking at the meats because I wasn't going to get a meat because I thought, like, I don't really need a meat.

I'm doing the cholesterol thing already with the yolks that are hard, not runny. And in the list of meats there in charlotte north carolina it's a you know bacon sausage believe ham was making an appearance and then the last meat on the list was liver mush liver mush liver mush what the fuck is liver mush i don't know what liver mush is i've've never seen those words together. There's nothing appetizing about those words separately. Together, just nasty. But I knew, well, I don't know what this is, and I wonder if anybody eats it. It must be some regional thing.

And I can't imagine. Maybe they just have it on there for the old people. Sometimes if a diner's worth its salt, they'll have a couple of things on there, whether it's a Jewish diner, a Jew diner, or whether it's a Southern diner, where they got a couple of things on there that it's a jewish diner a jew diner or whether it's a southern diner where they got a couple of things on there that no one eats but your grandpa so i said uh liver mush you want to i said that to a waitress i said what is what is liver mush and she uh i i believe i'll paraphrase here she says uh yeah i don't know if you'd like it if you didn't grow up with it and i'm like okay so i'm getting a little information. There's a regional specialty or cuisine or or slab of meat that that is an acquired taste. And then there was another woman there who was working there and she said, I like it. I like it a lot.

I grew up with it. And I'm like, OK, OK. But she said, but I don't know if you'll like it. I'm like, I'm getting it. You guys are assuming that I'm not going to like your weird, you know, regional particle meat, which I assumed is what it was. So, of course, I got to go back to my hotel room and, you know, do some research on liver mush. Because, you know, I've been to Scotland and Scotland's got some pretty gnarly meats. And I'll try just about anything. I've tried haggis. I've tried blood pudding. I've tried the Loris i've tried blood pudding i've tried uh

the lorn sausage uh in scotland you know scotland does a lot with meats uh or or at least you know utilizing you know pieces of the animal that uh you might go unnoticed or actually thrown away so i'm figuring it's in that family and sure enough i'm right they actually believe that it goes back a little further to the german settlers in appalachia before the civil war and it sort of kind of moved down from there and as you know germans are are meat-eating people and do a lot of work with the sausages and that type of meat uh you know that's and that's a nice thing about germans they do sausage and uh and we know them for that brats so as i read on basically liver mush is pig's liver and head meat so basically these kind of foods you know generally devolve into something that someone

makes because they're like don't throw that away don't throw that away with we can't afford to throw that just bring the pig head over here and scrape off the the meat and bring the innards too so so that's what that is it's and believe me i understand you know the the hunter's credo that i'm not sure exactly what it is but it's something around the uh the idea of eating the entire animal and i believe that that's a it's a noble and righteous thing to do is if you're going to honor the animal that you kill uh you should at least eat as much of it as possible this was a thrifty creation it's basically pig's liver, head meat, and some other bits and pieces, you know, ground into a mush and then formed into a brick, a sliceable brick of meat product that is, you know, relatively thinly sliced and fried on a griddle. So now I know what it is. And I know

another thing on a deeper level is that I have to try it. I have to try this stuff because that's who I am. I am not going to be surprised by a regional meat product and not put it in my fucking pie hole. So I work up the courage to try the liver mush. So the next morning, I go back into that diner and i i sit down and i'm sitting next to a woman and she's actually eating slabs of liver mush and i'm like i'm gonna do it so the waitress sitting next to me goes you should get a crispy i like it crispy so they fry crispy so i get my my grits and my biscuit and my eggs over hard and i get my liver mush and i cut a piece off and i'm like that is not bad at all as a matter of fact it's good but but

to be honest with you you know when you order these kind of things or at least when i do a a yankee a northerner uh a guy with a a uh slightly heightened palate my brain thinks like why would anyone eat this shit if you could afford not to? And I think that's a reasonable question. I think Southerners ask that question themselves, but most of them answer themselves with, oh, my grandma used to eat it

and she made it for us. It's a nostalgic thing. And sometimes nostalgia is triggered by an acquired taste. I mean, I thought it was great. I mean, I loved it really, but it's not every day loved it. But maybe when I'm down there again, I'll be like, I'm going to enjoy some liver mush.

It's not unlike the region itself. It was interesting, rich, practical, and slightly disturbing. I can scratch that off the secret bucket list because I didn't know it was on there try liver mush check very excited to uh finally get wanda sykes into the garage i've always loved her i remember her when she started i remember her when she was wanda sykes hall i remember wanda i was already an established comic when she started and she used to just come in with her husband at the time do her set she was

meek and polite in a lot of ways what an evolution to the uh the comedic force that she has become. And we talk about everything, and it's great. So let's go now to my conversation with Wanda Sykes. It's hockey season, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats. But iced tea, ice cream, or just plain old ice? Yes, we deliver those. Goaltenders, no.

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It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton. The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5 p.m. in Rock city at torontorock.com

thanks so sherman oaks i mean like so would you just come on the 134 yeah yeah yeah it wasn't a bad drive and my office is in Glendale. So it was really easy. I know that building, your office building, because I was in that office building. Oh, yeah. Okay. That weird ass building.

Uh-huh. The Hollywood. Yeah. Hollywood Productions. Yeah. Where if you're on one side, you're on the fifth floor. And the other side. It's just a weird building. It's very weird.

And then there's offices there where you're like, what's going on in there? I know there's porn. Yeah, right. Somebody's going on in there like i know there's porn yeah right somebody's adding porn in there i know that yeah there's gotta be some offices are just a guy sitting there like what is that guy doing next to our office there was a talent agent that i didn't know what that meant anybody can do anything in this town so um well i'm excited you're here wanda i'm excited to be here because i feel like um it's weird because i remember you like i feel like i met you when you were just growing up in comedy true you were you were this this woman that came with straight hair uh-huh and a pair shaped man right who would who would sit patiently i don't know about patiently.

I remember seeing a few, hearing a few, you know, finger taps. Oh, really? Yeah. And then all of a sudden you became, you know, Wanda Sykes. Before it was like Wanda Sykes Hall, and you're very polite, and you're very quiet, and you're almost like mousy on stage. A little submissive. Yeah.

And then all of a sudden it's like, who's this? When did this happen? Who's this new person? You know, like, I don't know. Well, we could get to that, but I don't even know where you came from. What was the journey? Where'd you grow up? I grew up in Virginia, but only until like the third grade.

And then my family, we moved to to maryland big move right yeah uh my dad yeah my dad was in the military so like a big deal in the military um he ended up being a big deal yeah yeah retired uh colonel a colonel yeah so he was like a life colonel yeah oh yeah so you grew up in the military your whole life right and your mom did was she uh also in she um she started off in like uh like a major newspaper in virginia like the virginia pilot writing she was in the no like she worked like the classified section classified ad section and then uh when we moved to maryland she stayed home because you know we didn't have that that family support system right right

relatives taking care of us and stuff while she worked so she stayed home for a while and then uh when we we when i got to the age where she felt like you know that i was old enough where she could uh hang a key around my neck yeah and let me you know, go home after school by myself, which is terrifying. The thought of it now, it's weird. Isn't that crazy? I don't know if the fear needs to be there, but it is. It is. Like when we were kids, my grandmother would let me take the bus into New York.

14. Go ahead. Have a good time. Just get on the subway when you get out of Port Authority. 14. Port Authority. Right. Who would do that?

It's crazy. I guess we need to be afraid. Yeah. I guess we do. I mean, you have kids. Right. Oh, yeah. Are you terrified?

Terrified. How old are they? They're five. Yeah. Well, you can't just throw a key around a five-year-old. Not at all. I mean, the backyard, it's fenced. Yeah.

I mean, we have a nice fence. Yeah. Fenced in backyard. Don we have a nice fence. Fenced in backyard. Don't go beyond the fence. If they're out back, I still have to be able to see them. You don't know what could jump the fence. Yeah, well, there's other, you know, they could fall down or whatever. I mean, the fear of someone jumping the fence is a little much, but I

understand. It's a little much, but it's there. I'm not going to deny it. I have it. Well, no, I have weird fears, too, and I don't even have kids. I have fears that something from space is going to deny it. I have it. Well, no, I have weird fears too, and I don't even have kids. I have fears that something from space is going to fall onto my bedroom. Like I'm going to be woken up by space garbage. I mean, it's ridiculous. I can't even go to sleep sometimes.

But it's not about me. I can see like a satellite dish. Right, right. Well, no, like literally like a thing. Direct TV, I'm not talking about from space. I'm not talking about from the, you know. No, I'm talking about like a piece comes off a spacecraft and just comes down. That's how special I think I am.

I'm going to be the one hit by space junk. Well, don't go see Gravity, man. I did see it. Okay, so it's all that stuff. So would you grow up in a big family? No, I just have an older brother. Oh, yeah? Just two of us.

Where'd he end up? He's in Virginia. Is he in the military? You know what? He works for a contractor with government things. Oh, government contractor. Yeah, and that's all he tells me. I have no idea.

Yeah, that's a mysterious government contracting job. Something like that. Could be up to no good, could be great. Yeah. Top secret either way. Who knows? He could be shredding paper or he could be building computer systems. That's right.

I have no idea what he does. Or doing an all cash business somewhere in Pakistan. Yeah, who knows? Yeah, whatever. The government's, you know, they're behind it, so I guess it's okay. Yeah, as long as he's happy. Uh-huh. That's all that matters.

His morality is not your issue. It's like, what makes a guy happy? But if your dad was in the military i mean that's like a very specific type of childhood isn't it i mean don't you have to behave is he sitting at dinner in uniform i mean no no you but i i really appreciated my father's approach to it because it was uh a job you know an honorable job right you know um but he didn't he didn't really bring it home that you know he didn't he didn't run our house like a camp or like you know right um so yes you know it was so we didn't have that and also we never lived on on post we never lived on

the base you would yeah he always wanted us to to us to just go to whatever the neighborhood school was. We never got base housing. I think also it was financially better for him because he'd rather get the allotment for housing and get a decent house. But you were living outside of DC? Yeah. Well, that's the biggest base. That's sort of a base in itself right we were closer to annapolis uh-huh yeah and where did he end up where did he go to work every day he uh fort me yeah he went to fort mead and then uh the pentagon so he was going back and forth between the pentagon yeah and i mean and that's the thing like okay first he's at fort mead and then his you know that tour is up so it's down to get his next duty.

Yeah. So we're all like, oh, God, you know. My brother and I are like, are we going to Germany? Yeah. You know. Yeah, yeah. I'm going to Japan. Where we going?

You know. And I'm going to the Pentagon. You know, all our family, all of our friends and stuff. Down the street, basically. Yeah. Also, their dads or whatever in the military. They're taking off, packing up. Right.

Nope. Nope. Not for you. We're just staying right here. Do you know what his role was in the Pentagon? At one point, I know he did something for the secretary of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. I know he worked for whoever that guy was. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Big military stuff. Yeah. Yeah. he worked for whoever that guy was. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Big military stuff. Yeah. Yeah, and he's retired now? Yes. And he's still around, though? Yes, yes. He just turned 80.

Yeah, and where did they, where's your family come from? Virginia. This is all Virginia? Yeah. Do you have family there still? Yeah, my parents, they moved back. Once they retired, they moved back. I don't really have a sense of Virginia.

Is it lovely? There's parts. Yeah. Yeah. Just make sure you can always see some water. That's it. You know, that inward stuff. No, not comfortable?

I'm not comfortable, yeah. That's still a little dicey. It gets a little dicey around Roanoke and all. Oh, does it? Yeah. Even if you're wearing a key around your neck? A lynch bird? I mean, come on.

Yeah. It's in the name. You know what I mean? I know they say everything's okay. Yeah. I get a little flack for shitting on the South occasionally, but I have to be honest, as much as I've grown to love the South, there's still some parts that are kind of scary. Oh, yeah.

Even for me. Oh, yeah. And I'm making it up in my head. So imagine me driving through Mississippi. Do you really feel that? Hell yeah. Really? Yes. I think all black people feel that. Historically. Historically. You're not from the South, but maybe even the ones who live in the South. You go there and you look around. If you get a dirty look, I'm like, OK. And me, I have to try to figure out what's what's the dirty look about. Is it because I'm black? Is it because I'm a black woman? Is it the gay thing? You could hate me on so many different levels.

Well, I got to tell you, if you're driving through the South and someone on the side of the road goes like, she's gay. Your advertising, I don't think they're that perceptive. You don't think so? Okay. All right. Not unless you tell them if i was like you know yeah making out with my wife yeah yeah then they would i think that would tip well if you got out of the car and said is there a problem is it because i'm black a woman or gay

where are we at what are you mad about but i i guess i i think that's probably true and it's interesting that no matter how much progress is made that there's going to be a a certain line that you cross into certain states if you're black you're gonna be like this historically not a good place no i don't i don't care if they're happy i don't care if i see other black people there's something there's something they might not be there on their own will right right they have to be there how long did it take you to get to to comedy i mean what did you study in school? In school, I studied marketing.

In college? You went to college? Yeah, I went to college. I went to Hampton University. Yeah. And I studied, got a degree in marketing. And it's basically because I didn't know what the hell else I wanted to do. That's one of those degrees. That's one of those degrees.

Communications, marketing. Give me one of those. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Business. Yeah. So you learned anything? Actually, yes. Yeah.

As far as business-wise with the- You had skills or something? Yeah, I did. Yeah. Did you end up using them? Did you work? I used them in this business. But did you, like after college?

After college, I ended up working for the government. I ended up, well, first I started off in retail. I think I worked for the government. I ended up, you know, well, first I started off in retail. I think I worked for Hex. It was Hex Department Store. Oh, yeah. It was kind of like, it's like Macy's Light. Yeah. Yeah. And I worked there and I was getting into

their, you know, like management trainee program. Yeah. And then I realized like, you know, I don't want full clothes all day I wanna hang up stuff I don't even like clothes that much what the hell am I doing there's that moment I'm not a fashionista what the hell am I doing it's not the last straw it's the last shirt exactly this is it right right yeah and then you ended up for the government yeah so from there I ended up I had my

applications and resumes out and everything for uh different government positions i worked at um uh walter reed at the hospital yeah but it was a research center yeah so i worked for them for a while and i but as a purchasing agent yeah not and then and then from there i went to to NSA. National Security Administration? Can you talk about it? Yeah, a little bit. Yeah. I think.

Are you allowed? It's like, it's so long ago that I'm sure whatever I know is like. Public information. Yeah, by now. But was there a time where you're like, they told you like, can't talk about it? Oh, hell yeah. Really? Yeah, that's your first day.

Really? That's orientation. Really? Yeah, man. you like can't talk oh hell yeah really yeah that's the that's your first day that's that's orientation yeah man yeah if you if you once you get that top secret um you know clearance yeah actually i have a i had a clearance that's above top secret because of the nature of the uh projects that i was working on really yeah i was like doing desert storm i was I was logistically doing some stuff, moving some things around. Oh, really? Yeah. So you were...

I was all buying things. I was purchasing. Oh, so that was the department. Yes. So it was more like, you don't have to let anyone know that we bought those. Right. That kind of thing. Yeah.

It was all secure. But were whatever ever moments are you looking at it's like what do they need these for why do they need uh women's underwear two boxes of women's underwear that doesn't make any sense wife beaters this is crazy a case of wife beaters all right that's interesting though they're like you gotta you're sworn to secrecy under the law right because i mean because a lot of things you know we would just get these schematics you know like well i had no idea what yeah this thing did but it was right here we need this this thing yeah go out and find out how much it will cost to build this thing so you didn't know what it was yeah i was

like all right yeah yeah i mean i just looked? Yeah, I was like, all right. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I just looked to see if there was like anything that had like one of those handles, you know, like when you blow up stuff, you know. I was like, hmm, let me see. That could be a handle.

I don't know. That's right. With the name Acme on the box. Right, right, right, right. So you didn't really know what was going on, but you still had to have security clearance. Exactly.

And what made you stop working for the government? I guess your dad probably said that it's probably a good line of work. Oh, yeah. You stay in just one way or the other, get your pension. I know. I think I was a GS-9 or a GS-11 when I left. What does that mean? That's just your grade and pay.

Oh, yeah? Yeah. So what left. What does that mean? That's just your grade and pay. Oh, yeah? Yeah. So what made you stop that? I started doing a real shitty job at it. You know, I just was like. You lost your. Yeah, I lost the focus. And, you know, it was like a file and, you know, a contract would come in.

And I was like, what time is happy hour? I'll get to this tomorrow and i was like you can't you can't operate like that in that position you just can't so you're already soul dead yeah i'm like nah i gotta get out of it yeah and then i looked around it was like other people who've been there for like 20 years and just reading the paper and dying dying dying at their desk it was like oh yeah so their desk. It was like, ugh. Yeah. It's like, I gotta get out of here.

So then what happens next? Where does... I, well, I was still there. Were you married at that point? No, not yet. No, no, no, not yet. I was still there, but I got the comedy bug. You know, I heard about a contest on a radio station

about a talent show, and on a radio station about yeah how much show yeah he had was one of the categories and I don't know I said you know I'm gonna I'm gonna see if I can get into this thing really yeah it was just like that you just like that did you like comics did you love comedy yeah so that it was already in you that right but you never thought that it was a job you could necessarily do I never really what? Here's the thing. I've never really said this because it could come across as like a

put down, but it's not meant to be. But I remember watching Whoopi Goldberg's HBO special Around the World in 80 Days. So I was watching that and I was laughing a lot lot but something said i can do this yeah she can do it yeah but it's not as a diss it's as right you know it's especially

she made it seem easy yeah like it became something tangible to me a black woman right doing hbo special performing funny all all these people right and it made it right you know seem like oh you know what I can do this right someone's doing it exactly it's a job available exactly so Whoopi did it right have you met her since yeah yeah yeah and did you tell her that um no I don't think so I don't think I told her that no I have no idea what she's like yeah I mean she's cool she's cool yeah very cool I don. I don't think there's anything. I don't think what you see, the persona that you see on TV is different from what I've encountered.

Yeah, she's cool. Because she's interesting because she started, I think, as a one-person show thing, a one-woman show. I think she used to do it at the comedy store and she'd do characters. I don't get the feeling that she came up and stand up the same way you did necessarily i think right no always doing characters and putting together big shows yeah and you sometimes forget that that's you know she was a stand-up yeah so okay so you mean but before whoopie though it's like you know uh mom's mabley it was huge to me really as a kid yeah i can see that that makes sense

yeah the smothers brothers i mean i used to watch all that stuff but that's like was huge to me. Really? As a kid. Yeah. I can see that. The Smothers Brothers. That makes sense. Moms Mabley makes sense. Yeah, the Smothers Brothers. I mean, I used to watch all that stuff growing up. But that's like seriously old school. I mean, how old are you? Do you tell the story? No, I'm 50. I just turned 50.

I'm 52. Yeah. I'm not 52. I'm 50 as well. Oh, so, yeah. And Moms Mabley is still before our time. So did your old man have those records? How'd you see that stuff?

I remember seeing her on on shows like yeah maybe yeah when she was a little old yeah it was like uh maybe she was on the smothers brothers yeah she was on the smothers brothers she was on that because i remember watching the smothers brothers yeah because my grandmother would get mad at uh and how uh uh tommy was being treated. She just, you know, that just annoyed her. She was like, that boy,

I should just beat him bad one day. She would just, I was like, that would make me laugh. Even as a kid, I knew it was an act. Right. But she just, oh.

Took it literally. Just took it literally. That was her take on it. It wasn't a comedy. It wasn't even comedy. It just was, just bad behavior. Just, just. Well, who was it?

I wonder where mom's made it. Because I know. Flip Wilson show. I remember that. I mean, we were really young. Yeah. For Flip Wilson. Yeah.

And he come out dancing. Uh-huh. Right? Uh-huh. In the big lights. Flip Wilson. Right. Ed Sullivan.

Pigmeat Markham was on laughing. Because here comes the judge. Here comes the judge. Here comes the judge. Yeah. Because they did that. Yeah. Well, Flip started.

Flip Wilson started doing here comes the judge. Is that who was doing it. Because they did that. Yeah. Well, Flip Wilson started doing Here Comes the Judge. Is that who was doing it? He started doing it. And that wasn't his, but no one called him a thing. Right. I know, right? And then he did Geraldine. I remember this stuff vaguely.

Yeah. So those were the ones that kind of planted the seed in your head. Yeah. And then Whoopi made it a practical thing. Were you like, who were the other people as you grew up? Do you remember watching other comedians? Yeah, of course, Carlin. Right? I love George Carlin. Yeah, yeah. Richard Pryor. Yeah. thing were you like who are the other people as you grew up do you remember i'll watch another carlin right i love george carlin yeah yeah richard pryor yeah uh cosby well what was it like in in terms of how you grew up in in in what was the black community you grew up in i mean like in

terms of like was prior part of it like when prior came out like did your parents did your friends listen you know what my parents they had a few party albums that's what they're called party yeah i think they had a had a red fox album but i didn't i didn't get to listen to things until i would go over to my friend's house oh right yeah yeah yeah but like a couple of uncles they had you know yeah they had the party they were dirty yeah yeah they had to party had to party. Because they were dirty back then. Yeah. Yeah. They had to party out. Yeah. That's what they were called, party albums. Red Fox put out like a dozen of those things. Right. Those party albums. Right.

So they were grown up stuff. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So you're working for the government. Your soul is dying. You see Whoopi Goldberg. You hear about a contest.

Right. And what do you do? I sat down, wrote some jokes. Yeah? Yeah. Right. And what do you do? I sat down, wrote some jokes.

Yeah? Yeah. And I went down to the Classics nightclub in D.C. And I went there and I auditioned. And he said, okay, yeah, great. I'm going to put you on the show. I'm like, all right, cool. And that was it. I got on the show, killed.

I didn't win. I think Tony Woods, he beat me. Tony Woods was the other comic. It was like three comics. other comic it was like three comics yeah it was like three comics tony woods won that night but um the guy who was emceeing andy evans he uh was like you know what where who are you and where'd you come from they right you know didn't go to any of the clubs that was the first time right that anyone had seen me were you the only only amateur on the show

or was it mostly local comedians? It was local comedians. Was it from the D.C. area? Yeah. So it was Tony and I don't know who else was there.

Chappelle was there. Greg Poole. No, Chappelle wasn't on the show but Chappelle was around. But he must have been 12. 16 years old. Maybe 14, I guess.

14, 15. Chappelle was around. Following Tony around? Well. Right? Wasn't that his original mentor, I think? Well, he didn't. I think Chappelle and Tony didn't really start hanging out until he got to New York.

I think once Chappelle. Oh, is that true? I think so. Because I got the feeling that maybe. Of course, we were all around Tony in D and all, but I think when Chappelle- Dave Edwards too, right? Yeah, Dave Edwards. I wonder what happened to that kid.

Yeah. What happened to that kid? I don't know. Once he got kicked off of the real world- That was the end of it. Yeah. And Tony Woods, there's always going to be Tony Woods. They're like, oh yeah, Tony Woods.

Yeah. Wait, what? How's he doing? He's so funny, man. I know. He was, he's so funny. It's one of those guys where you're sort of like, why is it? Just get your shit together, man.

You know, it was like, you have all the, all the pieces to the puzzle are right there. Just put it together. It's so weird when that happens. But you know, in comedy, you see it a lot. You're like, come on. Right. Come on. And who they, and people can't, you can't just tell tell people that because they're like, I'm doing everything I can.

Yeah, yeah. All my stuff's in my car. That's all you can do, I guess. All right. So what happens after the contest? You quit your job? Not yet. Not yet.

But I start going to the clubs. Hanging out. Yeah. Andy Evans told me, you have to come to the clubs. You got to work out. Thursday nights, come to the cafe, comedy cafe. Did you ever work at a comedy cafe? At the very end.

Okay. It was like the last week, I think. Didn't that guy own a strip club too? Yeah, it was all in the same building. It was club, I mean, comedy club, sports bar, and then strip. Right. Yeah, I think I worked it the last week it was open. Okay.

And it was not a good week for me. Yeah. I can imagine. Was it ever a good club? Yeah, it was. It was. And you started there? Mm-hmm.

Started there, and then over to Garvin's. Then I started doing one-nighters for Chip Franklin. Well, see, that's the one-nighter thing. A lot of people on the West Coast don't. I don't know. That's part of your story if you came up in New York anywhere. There was always one-nighters in places. I came up in Boston. That's how you started. You just drive to wherever the

fuck it was. You don't know what you're walking into. Not at all. What's going to happen in here? You're doing that? You're opening for people? For traveling headliners. Yep. Do you remember the first time you opened for a person? You're like, holy shit, this guy's got the goods.

Wow. I mean, because I remember opening for people. And there's two things that happen. They're like, how come this guy isn't bigger? And then is this the life that I'm going to lead? You know what? At the Comedy Cafe, I opened for Brian for brian brian regan oh yeah that's great and i was like man this guy is so funny how do you get that funny yeah yeah yeah that's that

feeling you get with him right i still get that like yeah how do you stay that funny yeah that must be still killing it yeah yeah yeah so all. So when do you commit your life to the comedy? Once I became a middle act. Right. Once I became a middle act and I saw that I could travel, make a decent enough money to survive. That's when I said, you know what? I'm out of here. Yeah.

And where'd you go? Went to, I wanted to be closer to New York. So Keith Robinson and I were good friends, you know, so he's out of Philly. Keith was living in Philly. I was living in Maryland at the time. I love Keith. And yeah, and was like, let's go to New York. So we said, okay, all right, cool. So we picked a date. And we, at that time, that's when I got married married i got married before all right so let's talk about that for a minute oh god really well just like okay okay just out of my own curiosity right because i mean you're out uh-huh now when did you know no you had no idea well okay i'll put it this way uh where'd you meet him let's say i dabbledabbled. Yeah. I had dabbled. What, in college? Yeah, well, out of college. Yeah.

Yeah. Maybe. So you had something. Right, yeah. I knew something was there. But then, you know, it's like, ooh, I can't do that. What are you doing? And I was raised in the church and all that.

Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was like, oof, what are you doing? Really? Yeah. That's what stopped you, the church? Yes, I think so.

And also the whole idea, it's sort of like, well, that's a whole lifestyle. Yeah, I got to get a new wardrobe. I got to, oh, man. Got to deal with another woman. Oh, boy. You know, there's too much conversation. So it wasn't all consuming. Right.

It was just there. Right. So when your husband, you don't need to. And plus, I've been dating guys all since. And it was okay? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It it was okay? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's all right. It was what it was.

You know, it was good for, you know, until when I had the other thing to compare it to. And I'm like, oh, what the hell was I doing back then? So where'd you meet your husband? I worked with his sister. So you meet him, you date, and you get married. Yeah. Moved to Jersey.

With him. And Keith. And Keith. Keith is living with you guys? Yeah. So it's you and your husband and Keith? Yeah. Oh, my God.

Yeah. Where'd you meet Keith? He's from Philly. Keith, do we meet? It was either at a club in Baltimore or a club in dc but you know the philly guys they would either drive down to right dc or you know whatever did you oh no no no it was so keith and i we've always been friends from the jump now he tried it was so funny he he was uh he yeah he he tried he tried to put a couple of moves on me and i was like keith please don't know this is not gonna work and then i told him that he he always says

this broke his heart i told him that if uh i said you know what even if we did date or whatever i said i would i would totally cheat on you you're just somebody that you just cheat on you do because that's the best part of his story is he's a failed pimp. Uh-huh. Like he wanted to be a pimp, but he couldn't get over on the girls and they'd take advantage of him. I love that story.

Yeah, that's Keith. He's so funny. Yeah. That's really what makes him so endearing is that he puts on this big effect. Right. But just this sweet, insecure guy in there. He's a sweetheart. He really is. So, okay, you're living in Jersey with your husband and Keith. puts on this big effect right but like just a sweet insecure guy in there sweetheart yeah it

really is so okay you're living in jersey with your husband and keith and and apparently like your husband is driving you to the clubs because that's the one thing i remember when did you start going into new york as soon as we got there as soon as we got to uh so that was probably in 92 i guess that's when i started popping up in the clubs in in new york yeah yeah and where are you going uh boston boston comedy club so that's where i first saw you that's it yeah that room where like you know everybody kind of was able to get on it was like the only room in the in the city where you didn't have to the auditioning process wasn't that difficult not at all you just had to you know you know ask jason steinberg yeah just say

hi to jason just be nice to Jason. And he'll throw you off. Yeah. You want to go on? Yeah, man. Yeah, I would love to. Okay. Eight people. There's always like eight to 12 people.

Right. Except on the weekends. Yeah. You know it's bad when there's more comics in the room than audience. On that back balcony. On the whole back. Yeah. Nothing but comics.

And there's like nine people who are all just chomping at the bit to get on. It's crazy. It's so funny that I just remember you hanging out with your husband who didn't talk. Yeah. And remember, he had this thing. He didn't like guys hugging me or other comics or whatever. Like, your comics would, you know, hey, want a hug? And then maybe give you, you know, we kissed each other on the cheek or whatever.

That would drive him nuts. Really? Nuts. So he was a possessive guy. Yeah. And that's why he was. And that's why he was there. Pretty much.

But you never cut him loose. He was always there. How you gonna cut a big motherfucker like that loose? I mean, you can't. But he was sort of doughy big. He wasn't, you know, wasn't like ripped. I don't, you know, I know you and me, you don't have to talk too bad about it what was his job you know here's the thing overall really nice guy very smart just frustrated he was just a frustrated guy just didn't know what

you know just needed to land someplace right that's all as far as as far as career and everything so you know it just didn't yeah right just didn't work out well so all right so you start going to the cellar which is where i remember the most because like esty and you are esty who books a cellar now are are great friends but like i remember when he started working there so like at that time you know she would use me sometimes mark cohen was around louis atel keith uh you know and then that whole scene Louis, Etel, Keith, you know, and then that whole scene, you know,

Colin, you know, and then, you know, all those people. And then you started coming around. And I just remembered there was, I got into the cellar before Keith got into the cellar.

Right. Yeah. But I remember watching you specifically and like, you always were funny, but like you were, you were sort of like poised and your confidence, like you were, it was very joke focused.

You didn't have any looseness to you. And you were very polite offstage and very composed and sort of grateful and deferring to these other comics. In the way that you were just nice and you seemed to be thrilled to be part of it. Right. Am I wrong? No, that's true. That's true. Yeah.

Am I wrong? No, that's true. That's true. Yeah. So like what happened, you know, to sort of, because you're radically different than you were then in a way. I think, you know, it's, I started talking about what was real and truthful to me. Do you remember that moment? To become authentic. Yeah, it was going through the divorce that, you know, that the end of that marriage and going through the divorce, it was really liberating.

It was like, wow, OK, now, you know, I don't have to answer to anyone. Right now, when you went through the divorce, was it because of your sexuality or just other problems? Just other problems. All right. So it was just the natural breakdown. Yeah. But when but when you know the the final straw then i was like okay this is it i'm out uh it was it was very liberating it felt like you know the chains had come off and it's like wow okay right and you know immediately it it hit me and i was like i'm a beautiful girl yeah you know it was like yeah right you know so you found your confidence yes yeah yeah and you you were able to to sort of

like have your own voice i tried it yeah i was like hey i tried to make it work i tried it you know right but what you're supposed to do but now fuck it fuck yeah but because i have to assume that like you know having that dude you know riding you or just being there, you're always going to check yourself. So there's no way to have a voice if you're constantly in relation. Because I've been in that too. You don't want to get off stage and have them go like, why would you say that about me? Exactly.

Were you talking about me? And then you have to go like, no, it's general. I'm just trying to. So that whole thing is a nightmare. That whole thing. Yeah. The very least, I think I always felt bad for you because like most of us are like, I'm not going to take my chick to the club.

You know, because how am I going to talk about her if she's sitting right there? I know. So that must have just drove you crazy. Yes. How much fighting did you do about your material? A lot. Right. A lot.

And so you made the choice. You had to make the choice. Yeah. You're like, i'm out and but did you are you guys okay now or no no well yeah with that you know it was like i don't yeah it wasn't even that long we don't have any kids we don't have pets or anything to share so it was like okay bye bye right that's so you all right so you start talking about you know you know finding your own place in the world and divorce and stuff, and your whole style changes.

Yeah. You get a little dirtier. Yep. A little more honest. Yeah, yeah. And what started to happen from that? When did you start getting opportunities? Because I know Louie always used it, but what was the first break?

The Chris Rock show. Uh-huh. Yeah. You got divorced and then got the chris rock actually i got the chris rock show and then yeah and then uh so then that probably maybe like two i think i was like two seasons in and chris rock show and then got divorced what was he he must have been jealous of that well of course yeah and now and then was coming to you know every taping right of the show right and then you know chris show, we were pretty out there.

We did some edgy stuff. And then he would. And you're busy. Yes. Then he would critique the show and say, you know, I don't know why you did that bit. You shouldn't have. Did you write that joke? You shouldn't have written.

I was like, oh, my God. Did Chris say anything about it? No, I just so tried to keep them as far apart as possible. I mean, of course, the guys would all joke on me at the office, which was pretty funny. Right. So it was the original Chris Rock show. So who was on that? Louie?

Louie. Jeff Stilson. Sklar. Shelt Sklar. Agna. Time later uh-huh he wasn't original was um uh ollie leroy lance crowther yeah lance was pootie time hayman yeah john hayman that sounds right so what was that like what was that uh that experience like when you know like is i've never written on a show and was Louis the head writer at that time? Uh, Jeff Stillson.

Oh, Stillson was. Yeah. So you do work with all these guys that you know, and you're trying to build it. Like it was a pretty provocative show. It was really the first time that, that I think, you know, on a talk show format that, you know, black issues are really dissected and, and done every, you know, every show. So what was that like working in that environment did anyone like was there what was the conversation because most of the writing staff was white

and was it you know did chris sit there with everything and every you know go over everything and it all went through chris uh yeah everything went through chris yeah um but you know it was like chris he never gave any directive of right you know, OK, we got to talk about black stuff or whatever. It was just funny. And just try to put everything, you know, in Chris's voice, you know, his sensibility. staff the writers for people who would come up with things that he never would have thought of, like Louis C.K. and Chuck Sklar

because he wanted all those elements. Right, right. So he didn't need a whole black staff, whatever. He just wanted some diversity as far as in style, more so than in what's that who's that friend of his was he around too the guy who wrote for the village voice

the um nelson george yeah yeah nelson nelson was a producer yeah he was a producer on the show so he handled more like the interviews right the guests and stuff like that yeah he's smart guy man um yeah but it was it was it was cool it was it was a great i i still credit chris for uh everything that i know about tv and and you know yeah and doing a show and running a show yeah because he let us do that you know it's like we we you submit your jokes to jeff jeff takes the jokes to chris chris would check off the ones he wants to do and then that's you know that's the monologue yeah and then we have a pitch meeting And then that's, you know, that's the monologue. For the monologue, yeah.

Yeah. And then we have a pitch meeting. Okay, come in. I need, you know, in studio bits. So we're all pitched.

Chris, okay, write that up, write that up, write that up. Yeah. And that was that the first time you did acting too? Yeah.

So did you ever train to act or you just did it? No. Just did it. Yeah. Yeah. And then I started taking classes and then i got nervous that the classes were gonna mess me up because i i thought i had you know because now i'm in my head thinking about stuff so i was like i don't know about i don't know about these classes man

they made you more self-conscious yes like i don't need technique i just need to be me i was who's uh greg giraldo was in the class with me. Oh, yeah? Yeah. Whose class was that? Was it that woman? Was it a woman? I can't remember.

Yes, we all went to her. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She was specialized in comics or something, right? Yes. They were all in there, huh? Oh, jeez. Dave Anthony. Yeah.

Yeah, he's on my show. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. He wrote and he's in a lot of them. And I told him, I said, when I was on this season of my show, keep an eye on me. Because I know he's got a lot of them. And I told him, I said, you know, when I was on this season of my show, I'm like, keep an eye on me. Because I know he's got a sense of it. Uh-huh. You know, he's pretty good with that.

Uh-huh. All right, so you do the Chris Rock show for how many seasons? I don't know. How many seasons did we do? Five? I don't know. Yeah, for the whole run. And then is that how you built the relationship with Louie?

Yes. Yes. Although, I was cool with Louie before we did the show. Because actually, when I started writing, that first week or whatever, I would go to Louie and ask him for some guidance or help. Because I'd never written on a show before. And he would look over my stuff and go, okay. Because I would just write out a long monologue. Right.

You know, and then Louie's like, okay, this is, okay, in there, that's a joke, that's a joke. But just, he said, just go read the newspaper, just write topical jokes. Right. Right. So you're writing whole pieces. Yeah, I'm writing pieces, man. An essay. Yeah, I'm writing an essay.

He's like, just, he was like, this is a funny piece. He said, keep this. You should do it. You should do it. But yeah, just read the newspaper and just write jokes on that. I was like, oh, okay, I can do that. You had to write monologue jokes. Yeah, yeah.

And did you get, everyone got a lot of jokes on? You got the hang of it? Yeah. Did it help you? Like, it's weird when you write that type of joke because if you're a storyteller or somebody who talks about your own life, it's got to be a skill that you're grateful for

to be able to do that. When I had to write monologue jokes, it's always so boring to me. Even if you write a good one, even if you wanted to use it, what are you going to use it for? A week? And then it's over.

Exactly. When did Pootie tang happen uh pootie tang happened i think our last during our last season or during the break before going into our last season was that your first movie no actually louis um had me do a little part in his movie uh tomorrow night oh yeah the one with chuck yeah about the photographer ice cream yeah yeah sitting in ice cream and doing pictures of the toilet. Right. Classic Louie.

Yeah. What did you play in that? I'm trying to remember. I was someone's date. Oh, okay. Yeah. I was a, was it JB? Was JB Smoove in that movie too?

He's in all his movies, I think. He's in a lot of them. I can't remember. I can't remember. But yeah, it was a party scene. Uh-huh. And a or wedding scene maybe it was at the wedding when chuck when they got married right i don't know it's funny working with louis because you don't question anything it's like not at all i guess this is uh yeah okay louis and pootie tang was like so close to being such a big deal. Mm-hmm. And then it became a big deal in the wrong way.

Exactly. Your part was funny. You were dancing. Yeah. I remember that. Yep. On the street. Biggie Shorty.

Yeah, Biggie Shorty. And Lance was Poodie Tang. Uh-huh. The story of that movie, I mean, you weren't part of it other than acting, but God, just the fact that he had to fight for it. That was a real education for him. I know. When did you feel like you really broke out as a comic?

Like, what was that moment? Because, I mean, like, I remember, like, well, there's Wanda. Well, now Wanda's doing all this stuff, and now Wanda's huge. Well, I don't know about that. Probably after, I don't know. I did a really good Comedy Central special,

Tongue untied. An hour. Yeah. That was well received, but I think, uh, and then sick and tired HBO special. Oh,

that's big. That was big. Right. Yeah. But I think to me, I, the last one I did, you know,

I'm gonna be me. That was the one I think that. Yeah. Put me over there. And that, well, how, when was that?

Maybe, maybe three years ago. Oh really? Yeah. Huh. It's time to do another one, I guess well no but i mean like i is that the one where you you know what what were your were your topics on that one uh i'm not obama i did about i did a bit about now that we have a black president that uh you know i don't have to be so dignified now yeah you know it's like we made it you know so it's i said before you know like i said before have to be so dignified now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, it's like we made it, you know. So I said before, you know, like I said before,

it's like I've always been dying to buy a whole watermelon, but I couldn't because, you know, it just felt like white people were looking at me. Right. You know, it's also, it goes back to how I was raised. You know, my mother, she never let us dance in the car. Like if we're riding in the car, she would tell us to, like if a good song comes on, we're dancing. She would like stop the car and like we're riding in the car. She would tell us the good song comes on with dancing. She would

stop the car and tell us to stop dancing because she said white people were looking at you. White people looking at you. She just thought that it looks bad because white people would look and go, look, see, that's all they do. Dance. That's all. They just cannot

stop dancing. Cannot stop dancing. So she was aware of that. Oh, totally aware. I think a lot of black people are, especially growing up back, you know. So it's not just a matter of. You always want to come off as, you know. You're self-conscious.

Don't give them any ammunition. Right, of how they're looking at you. Don't, yeah. Don't play into the stereotype. Wow. Don't sit outside and eat watermelon on the porch. Just don't do that. If you're going to eat something, eat something else. get get a cantaloupe that's that's outdoor fruit

how about a peach yeah a peach an apple a peach stay away from the watermelon don't eat watermelon sitting outside that's that self-consciousness is crazy yeah so that was your special where you're like fuck it you know right you know yeah and i talked about you know uh being married to a woman you know and all that and having kids when did you start when did you like how did you meet her and how'd that come about oh i mean i met her in september um of 06 yeah and uh just it was it was crazy it really was it was like i saw her and and on a ferry going out to uh uh cherry grove far island and it just but you were already out and in the world yeah so yeah so you were comfortable with what i was out but but not talking about yeah the cnn scroll hadn't happened yet yeah and so but you were you were dating and whatnot. Mm-hmm.

So it wasn't like it didn't take you by surprise, like, oh, this is back. Right. When you met her. Right, right, right. No, no, no. After the marriage, it's been all women. It was on? Yeah, it's on.

It's on. That was it. Yeah. And you met her on a boat. Yeah. And it was love at first sight? Love at first sight. Really?

Yep. That's sweet. Yep. Did she feel that too? Actually, I actually heard something said, you know, and I didn't even know it was about her. I turned and she was sitting at the back of this ferry and she was playing with this, it was another woman holding a kid and she was playing with that kid.

Yeah. And I turned and looked and I I mean like it was audible I heard something say see Wanda that that's what you need and I thought it was saying hey you you need to find someone settle down have a family yeah and I was like yeah yeah yeah uh because you know it was like I was I was already I was like in a in a crazy relationship at the time, this crazy chick. What kind of crazy? Just. Drama?

Yeah, drama. Just to say drama. Drama. Just drama. And I'm on my way to Fire Island. All I'm thinking about is, you know, oh, man, I got. Okay. She doesn't get here until tomorrow night.

Yeah. So I got all tonight. Just bad intentions. I was just full of nothing but bad intentions heading to the island so when i heard that i was like yeah okay whatever uh-huh and uh you know it was like crazy stuff happened the girl i was dating i you know it's like like kicking her out but this is like on the boat though how did you did you go talk to her how did you no i didn go talk to her? How did you? No, I didn't talk to her at all. I just, I just looked at her and I was like, wow, okay. And, and it wasn't until like the, like the next day I ran into her on, on the island. And.

Before your girlfriend got there. This was, this was after. Uh-huh. This was after we hadn't gotten to an argument or whatever. Yeah. I had to get rid of her. Well, you broke up with her that weekend? Yeah.

So you're fresh out of a breakup, like hours. I mean hours. I swear to you, hours. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And my friend, we were walking around, and she was like, I don't understand how you keep meeting these crazy girls. You know, what are you doing? I'm like, well, what do you mean?

She said, well, if you see a nice girl, what do you do? I said, well, you know, I just say hi and whatever. And she said, well, what do you talk about? And I was like, well, if she asks me how's my day, I tell her how's my day. She said, you actually say what your day is like? And during that time, I was remodeling my house, right? I was redoing my kitchen. So she said, okay, so let me see.

Let me see what you're doing. So I went up to a girl. I was like, hey, how you doing? And the girl was like, you know, no, that was in L.A. That was in L.A. Yeah. And she was like, so how you doing and uh and girls like you know no no no this that was in la that was in la yeah and she's and she was like so uh how you doing and i said you know good and everything and uh and she asked me you know what my day was like and and i said well i went to look at tile today because uh you know but and my friend was just like no next time you talk to a girl just say you're pretty

that's it oh just say you're pretty. That's it. Or just say your day is better now. I was like, you are corny. I'm not doing that. It's crappy. She's trying to give you some game. Yeah, yeah.

And she goes, don't talk about your stupid dog either. Nobody cares. Don't stop. Don't. Do not. Because I swear, if you pull out of your phone and show pictures of your dog, I'm going to throw your phone away. Don't do it. I'm like, I don't care.

So we're walking around and we run into, um, she runs into a friend and you know, so they stop and she introduces me to her friend and she goes, Hey, Wanda, how you doing? How's it going?

And I looked at my friend, I looked at the girl and I said, well, I'm redoing my kitchen, you know, fuck you. I got some new tiles. And goes oh really well you need to meet my friend alex she she uh sells granite and marvel that's her job and i look it's it's her it's her oh i'm so glad you fought your friend on that one yeah so did you talk about together

ever since yep been together ever since and that's been what seven or eight years yep wow so you just locked in and you're married where'd you get married uh palm springs oh really so recently how long in 08 yeah right at the first wave. Right at, yeah. Right when it was legal. And that stuck out here. October, yeah.

There was never any of those. Right. No, they're not legal anymore. Right. It's solid. Right. Palm Springs. And the kids, you have two kids.

Two kids. Did you have them? They're twins. No, no, no, no. She had them. She had them. Yeah. And where'd you get the stuff?

We got the stuff from a sperm bank, they're twins. No, no, no, no, she had them. She had them. Yeah. And where'd you get the stuff? We got the stuff from a sperm bank, anonymous. Yeah? Oh, really? Yeah. And it came out okay? Came out okay. They're gorgeous. Gorgeous.

Now, what is the, how does one- Blonde hair, blue eyes. Oh, yeah? Yeah. Looked like we got them from Ikea. But what is the process of picking sperm? How does that work? Basically, you look for longevity.

You look for a healthy donor. And if they're saying their grandparents are still alive and healthy, that's good. So they have all that information. Oh, yeah. They have to fill out all of that stuff. Like, I'm afraid to even go back too far with my lineage. Like, I've never, you know, like, I just know, like, Eastern European Jews, it can't end well for anybody. I know.

You know? Have you ever tracked your lineage? Actually, I did that show with Dr. dr gates dr henry lewis gates yeah on pbs he does that uh uh finding your roots oh really yeah fascinating yeah my three grand the three of my grandparents yeah like um both grandparents on my mother's side they couldn't uh they couldn't trace right couldn't go back to go back far my father's side, they couldn't trace. They couldn't go back far. My father's father couldn't do anything, but my father's mother, they were able to go back to 1650.

What? Yeah, that's the farthest he's ever been able to go back with an African-American person. That's crazy. 1650. Yeah, and it's because they traced it back to Elizabeth Banks. I think she came over from Scotland, but as an indentured servant. A white slave.

Yeah. Yeah. Indentured servant. And she came to Virginia. And she got pregnant by a Negro slave. But back then, it was all the condition of the mother. So she was technically a free white woman. She was just an indentured servant.

So she was free. So the baby was free. And that started that whole line of free Negroes. That's crazy. And at one point, they actually owned slaves, too. The black people did. Yeah. Yeah.

Huh. But I think it was they were actually trying to, like, buy their family. Yeah, protect their other family members. Wow. Yeah. That's amazing. I don't even know. Isn't that crazy?

How do you go back? I know. Well, there was documents. Well, there was documents they had where like they they saw where Elizabeth Elizabeth Banks was charged for bastardy and and, you know, and having sex with the. Yeah. Isn't that weird? The only reason that you could trace your genealogy because is a white woman. Yep.

That's the only reason why. And the only reason why we continue to trace because of the the the other Negroes were free. So there's documentation. Wow. Yeah. That must have been pretty moving. Yeah. Yeah, it was. It was like, wow, this is crazy.

So how did you, like, I know you tried the talk show thing. And, you know, it was, and you had Keith, you brought Keith in. Were you disappointed about that? Yeah. Yeah. I was. What went wrong with that, you brought Keith in. Were you disappointed about that? Yeah. Yeah? Yeah, I was. What went wrong with that, you think? What went wrong with that?

Because I remember you were- Fox had an idea. They came to me and said, hey, we want to do a talk show with you. Yeah. I didn't even go looking for it. Right. I just said, okay. And so we put it together, and John Ridley, God bless him.

He did a great job and he was really trying to, you know, facilitate what I wanted to do, what I had envisioned. But, you know, honestly, it was just it was hard. It was just too much. it was hard. It was just too much. And with the, you know, we didn't have enough time to, to,

to gel as far as, especially with the monologue, you know, we, they didn't want me to do a, a typical monologue because we also had the other part where we would do basically, you know,

weekend update pretty much. So it was, um was the, yeah. Like just trying to pick one topic. It just, yeah. Couldn't fall into place. Right. It was just a little. But yeah, but I think

if we would have stayed with it, it would, you know, we would have figured it out. It was always fun to see Keith laughing. Yeah. And then after that, you got the gig with Julia Louis-Drey dreyfus actually i was doing at the same time i was doing i got old christine first i think she's a little christine and then i started

doing that a comedy genius she is you guys were so good together oh my god watch that show yeah it's a good show well no i like her i like you and like you know it was one of those weird things where and now i think she's getting you know her the respect that she deserves you know with the veep thing but right like it did to work with somebody that the dynamic was just so defined like you were like oh christ you know what's going on right and she was like yeah right how many seasons did you do with that we did was it six five or six and did you guys become friends yes yeah yeah she i mean did you learn anything from her you know because she's like as a comedic actress it's kind of like she's fun to watch fun to watch you know i love watching her yeah and I love her process I mean she if it's like a physical thing she really works it out and she does yeah so the she times out the beats yeah see that's it out see to

me that's her work ethic is you know but like you really but she loves doing it so she really approaches it but but that's like like you think because I always think that people that are physically funny it's just some weird gift which it is. But you're telling me that if there were beats, physical beats to a joke, she would plot it out. Yeah. Oh, man. Yeah.

I love knowing that. Yeah. Because I never think that way. Do you? No. I just want to say the thing. I just want to say the thing. But she, yeah, she figures it out.

Wow. Yeah. Because it's like, okay, I know the camera's going to be here and whatever. And, okay, does this work if I do it this way? Really? You know, yeah. And Andy, Andy Ackerman, he was great. Yeah.

He was so much, I mean, it was so nice having one director. And that guy who plays the ex-husband is a really gifted comedic actor. Yeah. He's one of those guys that you see him in serious roles and you're like, yeah, it's good. But, like, to do that deadpan, that weird thing he does. Yeah. He's got a weird guys that you see him in serious roles and you're like, yeah, it's good. But like to do that deadpan, that weird thing he does. Yeah. He's got a weird thing about him that's very funny. Yeah.

So I didn't really. We love that. I love that whole cast. It was so much fun being on that show. Yeah. I didn't realize that you did the White House Correspondents Theater. You did that? Oh, yeah.

I did it for his first, the first year. And that must have been amazing. That was. It was. It was. I still look back and go, man, I should have taken more pictures. You know? Didn't anyone get pictures?

We had a few pictures of like some of like my half of my, you know, like an eye is missing or whatever. I'm like, man, I might have to pay Getty and get some pictures. This is screwed up. Yeah, you could get them. Yeah. Did you spend time with him? Before the dinner, there's like this little reception.

It's like maybe a couple hundred people in this little room when he comes in and says hello to the big people, I guess, whatever. But it was just so bizarre because it's like you look and say, oh, there's Katie and Tom Cruise standing in the middle of Florida. And you look over and it's like, oh, there's Madeleine Albright. And, you know, and it's like, this is crazy. But I can't, I would, I just don't, I think I would fall apart. Like the fact that

you were able to get up there and do that in front of those people i guess they're just people right when i always think about like not having those kind of opportunities it's i think like there's probably better off because like yeah as soon as one joke didn't work i'd be like what the fuck is your problem but you like gotta keep your shit together. Right, right. Well, my approach was I'm going to go in, I'm going to keep it short and get some big laughs. Did you interact with Obama? Mm-hmm. Yeah. And he just took it like a pro?

Yeah. He seemed like a pretty funny guy. It's weird. Even though he's president, I can't get a full sense of him as a person. Do you? I do. Yeah? Yeah. I can't get a full sense of him as a person. Do you? I do. Yeah?

Yeah. I mean, he comes off as pretty much like common sense. Uh-huh. You know? Uh-huh. He's very bright. I mean, just a really smart guy. When I talked to him, he has the ability where he's connected.

He's connected. He's not looking over your shoulder to go, oh, it's Tom Cruise. Well, you would hope not. Yeah, right. He doesn't get distracted, which is good. So he makes you feel like you're being seen. Yes. But you also feel.

That you matter. Right. And in your mind, though, you're like, that's, you know. Yes. But you also feel. That you matter. Right. And in your mind, though, you're like, that's the fucking president. Right. That's still there. Right. There was never like that moment where you're like, there's just some guy. No.

He feels like the president. He feels like the president. Isn't that wild? Feels like the president. Yeah. First lady feels like the first lady. Yeah. Both of them, I did. I said, Mr. President.

Yes, sir. I was very, you know, I didn't, you know. Hey, Michelle. No, I president yes sir i was very you know i didn't you know hey michelle no i did not it was you know because i saw clinton once and you know there's that moment where you like well you you want to see them as people and they are people right but they're like there's something other like i don't know if it's our own brains doing it but like that's the fucking president right the united states just standing there like he like i was at some event because my buddy worked for him and he was doing a photo line. It was almost like he had this weird ability

to just be there but completely not be there. He was just standing there and it was the president and these people are at a big money event so they're taking pictures. Taking pictures. But he just found this one frequency of politeness and connection and then he just did the whole line.

But that's the weird thing about politicians. It's like, yeah, they're the president, but they're also just politicians. That's all. So what about her? What about Michelle? Sunning, warm. She was, yeah.

I mean, when we met, because my wife was with me, Alex was with me, and she had just given birth. So I introduced her to, you know, to the first lady. And she turned to Alex and she was like, you mean you put up with her? And we all were laughing. And she was talking to Alex about France because she was saying that she's going to take the girls. They were planning a trip to go to France.

They were talking about France a little bit because Alex is French. She is? Yeah. She's from France? Yeah. Wow. Yeah. But now she's also from Philly.

She's from Philly by way of France? Let her tell it. She's always from France. I mean, she's a citizen now. She's naturalized. So she speaks with a French accent? Yeah. Fancy.

Do you go to France? All the time. Really? Yeah. You love. Do you go to France? All the time. Really? Yeah. You love it? We're going again in July. Now, can you speak French yet? A little bit.

You don't need to if you've got someone there for you. Right, exactly. It must be nice to go to France with someone who speaks French. Yes. Does she have family there? Yeah, yeah. That's exciting. All her family's there.

So actually, her family comes here a lot, too. So did you ever think in your life that that would be part of your life? No. Isn't that wild? No. You know, yeah. Me married to this beautiful white French woman

and I have two little blonde-haired, blue-eyed kids. Really? The girl from Virginia? The country girl from Virginia? the country girl from Virginia. The country girl from Virginia who used to like, who's husband. Yeah, right, right. Who used to sit in the back of the room

going, when we leaving? Right, right. Unbelievable. Bizarre. Sometimes you just wake up and go like, how the fuck? What the hell? That's so lucky.

All the time. Really? All the time I wake up and I just look around like, what the hell? How did this happen? How did I get here? Are you grateful? Yes, I am.

I am. But also, it's just all bizarre. Yeah. You know, I really, I feel like, what the hell? What are you doing? You got to pinch yourself? Yeah. Yeah.

This is crazy. Oh, I can't even imagine it you know yeah it's like and i'm it's like you wake up in the middle of the night yeah and although it's it's like one of the scariest things ever yeah uh because you know the kids are five the twins right so it's it's one of the scariest things ever to wake up in the middle of night and see two little white kids standing at the edge of your bed it's some creepy shit it's just creepy it's creepy because there's a moment where you're like what what the hell yeah what is crazy little white kids doing at the foot of my bed what did i do yeah right right what kind of horror movie is this what is this and then you go like oh they're mine

oh shit they're my kids they're my kids They're my kids. They're my kids. They're crying because you look so frightened. Right, right. What happened? I'm sorry. I was dreaming that I was living the life that I was as a child. Oh, my God. But they crawl into bed with us, and it's bizarre.

It really is. And they've been with you the whole time it's in they it's yeah and that's the thing with kids they they that's all they know there's no there's no color line they're not yeah it doesn't even i imagine the last questions eventually oh yeah of course yeah but that hasn't happened yet um a couple well they'll say things like okay like my friend so and so they have a mommy and a daddy but so i just have two mommies right like yeah that's pretty much it okay they take the information they go away and then they it's beautiful yeah and i heard uh my daughter explained that she met some girl on the on the uh was playing with another little girl on the beach

and uh and she came over to ask me something and you know i said yeah whatever and she went back and the little girl asked asked her so that's that's your mommy she's like yeah that's my that's my mommy and that's my and that's my mommy too and the little girl looked her head went like oh okay and they both you know and they just kept playing it wasn't any you're going to hell or how dare you it wasn't anything it was just oh okay it's a beautiful thing yeah because it like because it's it's at those moments where you realize that all that bad shit is put in them right you know like there's no judgment really none it's just sort of like all right i'm a kid and now we have kid stuff to deal with exactly

no wrong or right or moral judgments it's sort of it's there's like a lot of hope in that but there's also that sad element it's coming yeah something oh it's coming they're both so you have two girls no boy and a girl okay well yeah oh that's there's balance yeah well you seem great i'm so glad you were able to do this thank you me too thanks for doing it. No problem. That's it. That's the show, folks. And again, a little audio mishap at the end there, but it was great to talk to Wanda. It was great to see Wanda, and I hope you enjoyed that.

Go to WTFpod.com for all your WTF pod needs. Pick up that app for free and upgrade to premium. Stream all the hundreds of episodes available. Hundreds of episodes. I'm tired. What else? Yeah, you can get some merch. You can leave a comment. If you have a Facebook page, you can

peruse the episode guide. You can pick up some justcoffee.coop. Alright. Okay. Are we good? Are we good co-op alright okay are we good are we good I'm not finding that I miss liver mush you know I'm not like shit man I wish they had that here

I could probably go find it that's the kind of thing that people move to other places and they're sad about not being able to find and they usually find one proprietor that might have the liver mush and they become one of three people that buys the liver mush, and then you've got to sort of question whether or not, how long has the liver mush been standing around?

How long has it been around? Is it a fresh brick? I bet you I could find a comic that comes from the South and still eats the liver mush. I don't know. I think I've spent way too much thought on it. But let it be said again that I'm good with liver mush. I'm good with it. Boomer lives! delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats.

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