WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 534 - Nicholas Stoller

Episode Date: September 17, 2014

Neighbors director Nicholas Stoller is someone who movie studios trust with millions of dollars in production costs. Naturally, Marc wants to know how Nick got that way. He suspects Nick's Harvard education has a lot to do with it, much to Marc's chagrin as someone who went to nearby Boston University and spent his own college career on the outside looking in. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Along with your favorite restaurant food, groceries, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Calgary is an opportunity-rich city home to innovators, dreamers, disruptors, and problem solvers.

The city's visionaries are turning heads around the globe across all sectors each and every day. They embody Calgary's DNA. A city that's innovative, inclusive, and creative. And they're helping put Calgary and our innovation ecosystem on the map as a place where people come to solve some of the world's greatest challenges. Calgary's on the right path forward. Take a closer look at CalgaryEconomicDevelopment.com. Lock the gate! What the fuckadelics? It's Mark Maron. This is WTF. Welcome to the show. Welcome.

I'm glad you're here. I want to thank people right up front for coming out to the Tripany House at the Steve Allen Theater on Tuesday. We had a nice, exciting hour plus, maybe hour and a half jam session where I mixed it up a bit. It's interesting when I'm doing these shows. I'm at the Tripany House at the Steve Allen Theater, September 30th, October 14th, October 21st, just to do these workout shows, doing some of the stuff that I was working on before these shows and also seeing what else happens.

But I feel the drive. I feel compelled to, when people have seen me before working out stuff, to find something else, put it on the line push the envelope uh the uh the lovely and talented and horrendous uh dave anthony open for me so come out to those shows if you want you can go to wtfpod.com go to the calendar and uh get the link i don't know how many tickets are left it's a small room there's parking it's a cheap ticket and it's nice and i'll hang out and say hi afterwards well you know i'm trying to get some work done uh big news folks i don't want to forget to tell

you this marin on ifc got picked up for a third season uh we're gonna get into it got 13 more episodes to write to shoot to act in to produce exciting. I'm living my dream, and I'm thrilled to get the opportunity to do a third season of television, something I never thought I would do. And, you know, we've got a good groove going. I know the guys pulled in a couple of new writers. Jerry Stahl is going to be on staff this year. Dave Anthony's there.

Michael Jammin, Sievert Glarem, Sean Russell, and myself are going to, we're going to start writing a television show. 13 episodes of it. I think I got some shit. I think it's going to be fine. And I want to thank IFC for the opportunity. We're excited to do it.

And I'm glad I get to give you some more TV. All right. Yay me. All right. Let's go over some of these dates before I get into things. The L.A. Podcast Festival is on Saturday, September 27th. I'll be doing a live podcast there. I'll also be appearing on Aisha Tyler's podcast that weekend. It's at the Sofitel here in Los Angeles. You can go to WTFpod.com calendar and get the link for that.

Lit Quake. I wanted to talk about that i'll be in san francisco california october 12th i'll be at litquake it's a mark maron in conversation with uh jack bulware who's an old friend of mine so that should be exciting we got the new york comedy festival coming up november 7th that's sold out comics Comics come home at the Boston Garden November 8th. That's going to be an amazing show. This is a benefit for the Cam Neely Foundation. Bill Burr, Lenny Clark, Jimmy Fallon, Craig Ferguson, Jim Gaffigan, Mark Maron. More to be announced.

Holy shit. That's a big lineup. That is on November 8th. We got things to do. We got Nick Stoller on the podcast today. And I got to be honest with you, I wasn't hard on him, but I did bust some balls. There's no doubt about that.

Nick Stoller is a director. If you don't know, he directed Forgetting Sarah Marshall. He directed Get Him to the Greek. He directed Forgetting Sarah Marshall. He directed Get Him to the Greek. And speaking of that, he directed Neighbors. That comes out next week, actually, on Blu-ray, DVD, and Digital HD on the 23rd. But we got an opportunity to chat. We had some common friends.

But the bottom line was in this conversation is that uh is that he went to uh he went to harvard oh he also did muppets most wanted he did the five-year engagement he's a comedy film director wanted to talk to him didn't know him that well nice guy went to harvard problem with me i don't i don. I don't really know if I examine it as closely as I should that I have a fundamental problem with people who go to Harvard. I don't judge them as people. How can you say that, Mark? You just said you have a problem with people that go to Harvard. All right.

I guess in my mind, pow, look out. Just shit my pants. Just coffee.coop. Av available at wtfpod.com hey harvard university harvard that was a place i didn't go that was a place i could never get into that was a place that was always in my mind if you went to harvard automatically you were given the keys to the kingdom automatically you were taught the way to be a complete and full intellectual. Automatically, you had cachet in the world. Automatically, you got the best education anywhere, and you were an amazing person.

It turns out that one of those is bullshit. A lot of it, definitely true to some degree. I mean, I talked to Conan O'Brien about it on this show, that there is some sort of fraternal order that is honored around the world in the halls of power that one has access to if one goes to Harvard. But in my mind, it just stood out as this place that, you know, how could you be a real intellectual

if you didn't go to Harvard? I had it on this pedestal and that that there was something about it i was always a bright guy i think i was a smart kid i was one of those people that uh the teachers used to say well mark's got a motivational problem he's very smart but he's not motivated i guess that's what you call sleeping in class i guess that's what you call ditching class i don't remember anything i fucking learned in high school i you call ditching class i don't remember anything i fucking learned in high school i guess nobody really does but i don't remember really being there i remember a few teachers freshman sophomore and junior year i was like i don't want to go to

college i don't fucking want to do it i'm just gonna hang out man i really didn't want to go to college and i was almost failing out of high school and then somehow or another my senior year college i senior high school i freaked out panicked and i was like i gotta get the fuck out of high school and then somehow or another my senior year college i senior high school i freaked out panicked and i was like i gotta get the fuck out of here my parents got a few bucks they'll pay to get me out of here i should take that opportunity to get the hell out of here and i scrambled and applied to a bunch of colleges a bunch of community colleges and uh didn't get in anywhere because my high school transcripts sucked. I don't even think I took the SATs.

I got into Boston University's CBS program, the College of Basic Studies, which didn't sound like a good idea to me. And eventually I got into Curry curry college in milden massachusetts which had a i think one of the best programs for uh some learning disabilities dyslexia uh in the country but they also were rather lenient to uh to uh middle class people who could afford to send their high school fuck-ups to a small liberal arts college outside of Boston. So I went there for a year. And I just put my, I just, I decided I was going to be a doctor. And I just focused.

And I studied the shit out of everything. I remember spending like 12 hours in a library trying to fully understand photosynthesis. And I did it. I can understand it. I knew how it worked. got i got straight a's almost my freshman year just pushed it but i couldn't go to harvard man it was too late too late then i went to bu transferred to bu bgu and again i don't know how the hell i got through college but

i do know i do know that just across the way that Harvard with their crew, with their preppies, with their well-bred folks, the whole legacy of college just used to hang over me. The legacy or the idea of Harvard was profound to me. I thought that people went to Harvard must be better than me. Perhaps they are. I never could get the hang of how to contextualize anything educationally i couldn't get the hang i don't know that i could write a term paper for you right now i don't know if i could write a paper on something i could not figure out how to do basic shit everything is always happening in the immediate moment for me it's very hard it took me

years to be able to put anything into any sort of structure or system or context everything i had to engage with viscerally and immediately like with writing a paper i mean i would spend hours writing papers i gotta write a 10 page paper and i'd write 10 pages of opening paragraphs i couldn't fucking make the point i didn't understand you got opening paragraph then you make an outline you support it you support you support it you know all your different areas then you write a conclusion i just i could not figure it out i like the thought of it right now is giving me anxiety just to write a short-term paper would drive me fucking nuts because i know i couldn't do it i wrote a book it doesn't matter i don't know if i could write a good paper it was only up until a few years ago i had an incomplete in an english class i for some reason i focused on romantic literature for the year uh that i had a

focus like i was an english major with a focus in romantic lit and that was a nine o'clock class and i had drinking to do so i didn't make it very often to that class and when i did i was not really together and that was yates and shelly Byron and Keats. And I read the hell out of those things. Sometimes I read them the night before, but I read them and I, you know, and I had my own interpretation of them. That was how I rolled. I will interpret this as if it's fresh for me happening right now. I don't care when they wrote, I don't care who influenced them. I don't care where they fall in history or what they were up against how do i feel about reading this right now that's how i did it that's how i studied so in other words i graduated with honors in college but it was only because i was full of fucking charm you can charm

yourself through an english degree and i did a film studies minor, which was just actively and excitedly watching movies and learning about movies and just treating everything as if it's just happening for me. I was very good at writing very engaged readings of things. And that got me through. But still, there's something that hung over me, man. Fucking Harvard, man.

Right across the way. If I had only gone there, perhaps I would have been able to contextualize things. Perhaps I would have understood structure. Perhaps I would have been able to write a good term paper. Perhaps I would have automatically become an intellectual of sorts. But I did go on to become sort of a pseudo intellectual for a long time. And now I'm pretty diligent at not talking about anything I don't know about and if I don't know about it I'll say I don't know about it but I do have opinions about things and I still don't put them into context very often I just react to them I'm a reactor that's what I am Harvard man I couldn't got I couldn't have gotten in there was nothing I could do I wasn't

focused I don't even know like there's part nothing I could do. I wasn't focused. I don't even know. There's part of me that I think I could go back to college now, maybe learn a few things. But I don't know if I really could. I don't know if I'm any better a student. I don't know if my brain has changed in those ways that would make it more palatable or more would absorb.

I think I did learn. If I learned anything in school, not that you're asking me, but if I learned anything, it was to fully engage in all of my interests. That's what I did. I had the time.

I acted. I wrote plays. I wrote for the paper. I wrote poems. Did some photography. Thought about stuff. Got very excited about a lot of different movies and art and things. That was the best I could do.

I took the time to do it, and I had some guidance in doing it. But, man, I could not fucking contextualize anything. My brain just had no compartmentalization. Everything's always happening for me right now, right now, right now. This is the first time I ever set eyes on this painting. Who cares about the history? How do I feel about it? Where was that psychology I went to? How do you get grades at this school? Just tell us how you feel about something. Get excited about it one way or the other. if you do a good job of getting excited about it and engaging with it we'll give you a good grade that's the way i approach college but nick stoller went to harvard we're going to talk to him

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Calgary's on the right path forward. Take a closer look at CalgaryEconomicDevelopment.com Now. Are those fucking dogs going to do that the whole time? Sorry, I brought all my dogs. Yeah, what is with you Hollywood types? I can't. And your animals with their outfits.

I hate dogs in offices. I'm not anti-dog, but I don't know. I don't know. I don't connect anymore. I don't connect. I don't feel the urge. If it's not a pug or a French bulldog, I'm not touching it. No. I don't know. I don't connect anymore. I don't connect. I don't feel the urge. If it's not a pug or a French bulldog,

I'm not touching it. No. Don't need to. If it's just a filthy kind of like, what kind of dog is that? Kind of, you know,

retriever, setter-ish thing. Yeah. I don't care. I'll pet a dog but I don't, I'm not, yeah, I don't connect with them.

Really? It's like a fluffy pillow or something. I have the same connection. Are you bad with animals in general? I know I'm not bad with them. I just don have the same connection. Are you bad with animals in general? I know I'm not bad with them. I just don't really care about...

I don't care. What kind of fucking person are you, Nick? I don't care. What do you mean you don't care? I like people. I care about people. Do you? Kind of.

Do you have pet people? I have some slaves. I treat them really well, though. So how's this neighbor's movie doing? Like, how many millions of dollars? Fucking dog. Shut up! Yeah, in the first weekend.

I can't believe that dog shut up. It worked. Let's just take a minute to savor that. What an amazing moment that was. That was incredible. You have a magic power. Sorry, sorry. I was rehearsing.

Okay. So what did it do like i want to know what it feels like to just by proximity to say the amount of money you're gonna say it was uh it's it was 49 million dollars holy shit it was crazy so you're sitting at home yeah no i was on a party bus you were we went on a party bus for the opening night for the opening you ran in a party bus yeah who universal i think rented us a party bus. Whose idea was that? It was, I think it was the Point Grey, Seth Rogen, Evan Goldberg.

They produced the movie and I think it was there. I've talked to them in here. Yes. Yeah. It was a good interview. Yeah, they're good guys. They're good. Yeah.

They're good guys. Nice Jewish guys from Canada. Yeah. Exactly. Canadian Jews. Canadian comic Jews. Yeah. Yeah.

All right, so you rent a bus because they want to like, let's party. What was the angle? What do you do on a bus? Was it just for you? You do the full douche. Yeah. That's the full douche. What do you think you do?

You drive around. You check your like stats. You check the movie stats. You high five for like six hours. Full douche. It's the full douche. Like, what do you think? Smoked some weed.

There was, I think they did. I didn't even do that. I just drank a few beers. Yeah. So, okay. But like, you knew it was going to do all right. But I guess you don't, do you? This one seemed like it was going to do well.

I've never had, I haven't had this, this crazy an experience before. So, yeah. But you've had stinkers, right? I've had, I've done four movies. This four movies my fourth movie it's only your fourth movie it's only my fourth the fourth movie i've directed yeah i've been involved we'll go back yeah okay so but i've had of those of the three previous movies the first one sarah marshall did well great movie oh thank you i like that movie i watch it and i like jason siegel there was some real heart in that movie. Oh, thanks. Thank you.

Get Him to the Greek was the second movie. That did very well. It did well. I enjoyed that movie. That was fun. No, thanks. Not as much depth as Sarah Marshall, but good. No, it's a different kind of movie.

All right. As long as we understand each other. And then the third one, Five-Year Engagement, it didn't do as well. No, why? It didn't. You know, I think it didn't do as well because it wasn't a wish fulfillment idea. Explain that. People didn't want to be in a five-year engagement is what I think it didn't do as well because it wasn't a wish fulfillment idea. Explain that. People didn't want to be in a five-year engagement.

It's too long. It's too long. Yeah, it wasn't something that you wanted to be a part of. Women aren't going to be like, yes. Exactly. Yes. Exactly. That sounds great. Women aren't like, sign me up for that.

Yeah, for the five-year engagement. That's their biggest nightmare. Exactly. It's their biggest nightmare. But you didn't think about that going in? No, I didn't. No, you learn on each movie. So that's a new nightmare it's their exactly it's their biggest nightmare but you didn't think about that going in no i didn't know you learn on each movie so that's a new a new thing did it break even i think at the end of the day it did yeah it wasn't a disaster no because it wasn't expensive right but it wasn't but it was it could have i wish it had done better

but this movie zach efron not known for being hilarious but he's pretty funny if you watch like his you know movies you can see like i watched this 17 again yeah i'm sure you're i know you're huge oh that's right he was all right on that that was the uh the one where he goes back and no that was okay that was with john with tom lennon yeah plays his friend his friend who's in star wars and uh who who plays the woman again was it judd's wife yeah leslie yeah that was good yeah she's funny and she probably hates me referred to as Judd's wife. That's probably mistake numero uno. Yeah.

One time I interviewed Larry David's wife, Lori. Lori David, when they were still married, and I referred to her as Cheryl. I was interviewing her on Air America. What happened? It was no good. It was not a good radio moment for the right reason. For the wrong reason, it was a great radio moment. Did she start to yell at you, or was it just a vibe? The tone definitely changed.

Yeah. Did you find yourself apologizing, or did you just think, I'm just going to go through it? No, I can't shut up. I'm like, I can't believe I did that. It's really bad. Please forgive me publicly. me publicly yeah did she say it's okay she was she said that's never happened before really with that tone i believe how could that that had to have happened all the time no i mean well she's important in her own head about things so you know she's

everybody doesn't you want to be in the shadow of you know what i mean they have their own thing you don't want to be like what's that guy's chick's name the one who's uh does all the great stuff yeah no that's the nightmare yeah yeah yeah i've been there well let's let's not talk about me i'm happier here so you've been there you've been in the shadow of your girlfriend no they've been in the shadow of me oh okay yeah and that's not a tremendous shadow not a tremendous shadow. Not publicly. I hear at home it's a pretty large shadow. You have a very small wife. But yeah, my public- Who fits in your shadow.

My public shadow, not huge. Right, right. A little bigger now, but back in the day, no. It was a personal shadow. Do you get, you must get recognized now, walking around. I get recognized in weird ways for different things. Okay. Some people recognize me for the comedy.

Some people now recognize me for the IFC show. the the greatest recognition was one time i was on the phone at phoenix airport sitting in a chair and there was a guy sitting facing the other way behind me and i'm just talking and he goes i just you're mark maron because i just recognize your voice that's so awesome that's wild yeah that that's crazy or i get this thing where people have their earphones on they'll look at me and go listening to you right now right now and i'm like which episode yeah does there a certain is it all dudes no um so it's not is there a certain type that recognizes you or is it it's all different kind troubled people troubled people no no it's all different people i'm always very surprised by it yeah there are a lot of dudes but they're like i don't know i i like to think there are women that enjoy the show

that i don't annoy yeah i think there are there's some out there some women that see you okay so nick you're a big director you're big time people trust you with millions of dollars they do they do how much did this uh did neighbors cost It cost 18. That's not a lot. No, it was cheap. Get them to the Greek. That must cost some money, right? That was my most expensive. That cost, I think, 45.

Uh-huh. So, yeah. And where did it... Okay, let's go back. Okay. Because you're a smart guy. You seem to have your shit together. I'm glad it seemed that way. It's because I'm wearing a collared shirt.

But where'd you grow up? I grew up in Miami. In Miami, Florida. I grew up in Miami. In Miami, Florida. I grew up in Miami, Florida. And that's where you lived your whole life? Well, I was born, okay, I was born in London. Why? My parents just lived there for 10 years.

They're not British? Not British. Your dad had some big idea. They just moved there. They wanted to move, they moved there in 1970 and they left in 1970. They wanted out? Yeah, they were just going there for an adventure.

You never said why did you go to London? No, I said why. I think I said why. And? And they said they just wanted a little adventure, so they moved there. Are they still together? They're still together, yeah. Oh, so you're one of those people.

Yeah. Wow. Okay. Yeah. All right, so that's where this is starting. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not in front of the camera.

The people, those people are in front of the camera. The needy, insecure ones are in front of the camera. I have my own i'm dealing with but it's all behind the camera i'm making note of that has own shit he's dealing with we'll get to that later yeah star okay before i came here by the way my wife said i have to listen to this podcast because then i'll get to know my husband oh really because it's because it's like there's a therapeutic angle. Are you in therapy? I just started going. Oh, so you're, okay, something's going on.

Yeah. How many times have you gone? I've gone, I think, about eight times, nine times. Oh, so you should know by now whether you're jerking that guy around. I don't think we, what do you mean by jerking him around? Like, are you just kind of rambling on and entertaining him?

Or are you like, I've got, these are the issues I'd like to deal with. Oh no, I had issues that I wanted to deal with. Really? So yeah. Yeah, so yeah. Okay.

It was a specific reason. It wasn't just like, I want to entertain a guy. I'm going to make another post-it. Oh no. Reason. So. Oh God. So no, we don't, you know, look, I'm not, we don't you know look i'm not i don't pry yeah but uh

so you you go you grew up in miami miami yeah are you jewish i'm jewish really i know no one thinks i'm jewish no i i figured stoller stoller stoller and stoller they wrote all the songs uh fred stoller he's jewish yeah he'ser. Lieber and Stoller. They wrote all the songs. That's true. Lieber and Stoller. Fred Stoller. He's Jewish. Yeah, he's very Jewish in a way. But just behaviorally. Behaviorally Jewish. Yeah, yeah.

So, okay. So what's your dad do in Miami? Why'd you end up there? Because usually younger Jews don't necessarily go raise their kids in Miami. But that might be judgmental on my part, and I'm not sure that's true. No, I think there's a... My dad grew up in Miami. Oh, okay. Yeah, so he wanted to go back home so your grandparents were there my grand all all four

regret were there you grew up with all four grandparents yeah all the parents that stayed married yes this is i think we're done talking okay this was this was the light what'd your dad do down there he's a he's a He was and is a stockbroker. Now they live in New York. All grandparents gone. They live in New York. My parents live in New York. They did the reverse trip.

So they got old and went to New York. Yeah. My mom did not like Miami. Why? She didn't really find any friends there. She's from New York. I think she always wanted to- Like Manhattan?

Manhattan, yeah. She's Upper West Side. Oh. Yeah, so she wanted to go back and she probably hated every second of it why are we here now yeah she hated it so that was in the house that was in the house yeah yeah just waking up to your mother going why yeah it was a lot of that shit yeah so it wasn't like yeah like just miserable drinking during the day my dad has a google alert with my name on it so like i don't know how much to talk about this. You can talk about all you want. That's true, yeah.

Talk about the horrible fighting that went on in your home when you were a child. Talk about how it scarred you and that you- No, it resulted in me really enjoying comedy. And you've got siblings? Yeah, I have a brother. Yeah, how did he turn out? He turned out, he works in politics. Really he turned out he works for uh he works he works in politics really yeah he works for alan grayson uh-huh he's a very liberal yeah

politician familiar with that guy uh and he started out as a blogger my brother he was like the first person who said the word blog to me i thought you're gonna say to anyone maybe to anyone i literally he was talking about how blogs are gonna take over everything and he and al gore yeah invented the internet and the word blog yes exactly and i just uh and i just made fun of al gore for uh for something the right wing makes fun of him for and i feel ashamed of it and it's not true it's not true he didn't even claim that he invented no it's all bullshit all bullshit they just hung that on him to make him look foolish yeah and it worked it did work because he's kind of stiff yeah he's a little stiff and did not defend himself properly right Right. You got to fight, fight, fight.

Always fight. Yeah. So you grow up in Miami. Like, were you a troubled kid? No, I was good at two shoes. Really? Yeah, I was. Always looking for approval?

Yeah, I think so. Raising your hand a lot in school? Yeah, I was that kind of guy. Straight A's? Yeah, I got good grades. Yeah. Sports? No sports. Terrible sports. All right, we can keep moving forward. Yeah, okay. That was close kind of guy. Straight A's? Yeah, I got good grades. Oof. Yeah. Sports? No sports.

Terrible sports. We can keep moving forward. Yeah, okay. That was close. It was. I felt like- Touch and go. Yeah.

So your brother- Did you get good grades? No. Terrible grades or mediocre grades? At one point, it was pretty bad. Okay. And then I freaked out my senior year, and I had to apply myself. I was the unmotivated kid.

Like, he's very bright, but we don't know how to get him- And then senior year, you got really good grades? Well, I got panicky because I wasn't going to go to college. I decided I was just going to ruin my life completely. And then my senior year, I'm like, I got to get the fuck out of here. What am I going to do here? And then I got like-

Wait, where'd you grow up again? Albuquerque. All right. Family's from Jersey though. Okay. So I nailed it senior year, but it was not quite enough to get me into a decent school. So I ended up in a slightly smaller sort of sympathetic college, I'll call it.

Okay. Sympathetic. Nice. Sympathetic. Big hearted for people who had the money to put their troubled kids in school. I got you. So, all right. So you kick ass in school.

Was there any comedy in your life at that you. So, all right. So you kick ass in school. Was there any comedy in your life at that time? Well, yeah. I mean, my grandfather, my dad's dad always made lots of jokes and my dad was obsessed with comedy

and I was obsessed. I became- Obsessed how? He just loved, he loves comedy. He loves Saturday Night Live. He loves- Who were his guys though?

The people he loved? Mm-hmm. I mean, it really was like the early siren live oh really yeah and like chevy chase like all of those like you know those movies um i mean as a kid i would watch a lot of the you know uh the zucker abrams zucker stuff like top secret and it's weird because i didn't like that stuff oh really yeah i mean i i could identify it as being funny to people but for me not so much like i uh i don't really like

i mean like you don't like naked gun no i like it but it's um what you're more impressed with the con the amount of jokes yeah like the the it just the tone of it is so the pace of it is amazing and it's really just this weird big joke delivery system yeah and some of them are pretty amazing yeah like i enjoyed airplane you know like if that's the one i think back on naked gun yeah i i enjoy it because leslie nelson was funny but it's you know i like um well as a well i was a kid experiencing those things so i'm just i'm just saying well i'm just saying you're shallow and as a child you were shallow those are the yeah no i'm a shallow person that's the comedy. That's actually all I've ever seen in the comedy genre

are Naked Gun, Naked Gun 2 1⁄2, Naked Gun 33 1⁄3, and that's it. It seemed to be enough. I saw part of Top Secret, but it got too deep. No, of course it's fun as a kid, those movies. Yeah, and I became... It also was like, at the time, it was like what was on our VHS shelf.

Yeah. So it was also, for whatever reason, we had Top Secret, so I watched it 8,000 times. Mel Brooks, that was another like Blazing Saddles in History of the World. I watched a zillion times. Blazing Saddles is still funny. Well, that's really the model for it, isn't it? I guess maybe Marx Brothers, but I mean, but Mel Brooks is really the, like those guys, the Zucker guys are the next phase two of that in a way.

And Early Woody Allen, Bananas and- That's right. Sleeper. I watched a million times. Sleeper's very funny. But I think that had a little depth to it. I think there was some thinking involved. Bananas also.

When did you start to think that it might be your calling? Well, then the other thing is that Dave Barry, the humor columnist, is out of Miami. So as a kid, I read his books and started writing, copying him basically just writing things about my like family or the yard or whatever. Essays. Essays. Like comic guests.

Like I read one of his books and I was like, I can't believe you can do this in the written form. Right. Uh, and I'd already been obsessed with Saturday live and all that other stuff. And so I started to write kind of essay comic essays as like a seventh grader. That just for myself, that were just complete ripoffs of Dave Barry. You didn't read them in front of the class or anything?

No, I read them. I wrote them for like my dad kind of, my dad appreciated them. He did? I wrote them for him. Oh, that's sweet. Yeah. So that was my like earliest writing. Did you ever do anything weird?

Like, you know, did your father ever say like, you should contact Dave? Oh, yeah, yeah. No, I wrote him a letter because he was like a local celebrity before he became a national treasurer. What is it with Jewish parents? You know, Dave Barry might enjoy seeing this. Right. Oh, no. I don't think I sent him anything. Yeah. You know what I did is I wrote him a letter asking

him if he needed an unpaid intern. Uh-huh. He didn't. He wrote me a very nice note back and said, thank you, but I actually don't need any more. Was the note hilarious? I'm sure he made some joke in it, but I don't know. Not memorable, though. Not that note.

That's disappointing a little bit. Yeah. Especially as a guy that likes him. Yeah. It was mainly just nice. It was a nice note. Yeah, because he didn't want to crush a seventh grader's spirit. Right.

Yeah. So I don't know how to say I can't legally hire a seventh grader. That's like against the Right. Yeah. So I don't know how to say I can't hire, legally hire a seventh grader. That's like against the law. So yeah. But it was your dad's idea though, right? Had to be. Maybe he needs some help around the house.

I don't know. I'm not, I can't. Why am I giving your dad that voice? Yeah. Hey, Nicky. Why don't you ask Dave Barry? Wait, where's my, is my dad in the room?

Where is he? Dad? This is your life. Oh my God, dad. How are you ask Dave Barry? Wait, is my dad in the room? Where is he? Dad? This is your life. Oh, my God, Dad. How are you, kiddo? You should do a show in Vegas where you just imitate people's family. Fictional parents? Yeah.

Just make it up? Yeah. Like a Kreskin show? Like, come up here and tell me your father's name and religion, and I'll try to... It's like a mix of magic and impressions. That's always wrong. And the voices don't vary much. Yeah. Like the Jewish guy's like a mix of magic and impressions. That's always wrong. And the voices don't vary much. Like the Jewish guy's like, hello.

As is the Christian one. Right, and the non-Jew is like, hello. And the British one's like, hello. Hello. Hello. Lovey. How you doing, governor? What would be the Jewish-British one?

That's challenging. Hello. Oi, hello. We tried. It's embarrassing, but I'm going to leave it in. Because it was challenging and neither one of us could do it. I wish we had someone here who was teaching us how to do these things. Like, what you need to do to do a British Jew.

We need Del Close to come in.'s do a a herald yeah that starts with with all you have is british jew and and and on an airplane yeah on an airplane is that yeah yeah in shakespearean i don't know i'm trying to think of other things oh that, that'd be good. Shakespearean Jew. Which there is one, right? I'm sure. Shylock. Right. Getting back to Miami and your sad attempt to work for Dave Barry. Yes.

As a child. At the time. I'm being very edgy with you and I apologize. No, I like it. No holds barred. That's your tagline. Well, I don't know why certain things come out of my personality for certain people, but this is what you're getting.

I like it. Okay. I appreciate the honesty. Yeah, but at the time too, when I was watching it live, I watched it and I didn't want to, I was obsessed with becoming a writer for it. You were? Even as a kid, I had no interest in the- In performing.

In performing. I wanted to be a writer. I think I had that too. I didn't know how one did it, but I do remember writing some sketch ideas yeah i wrote sketches when i was very young yeah like 10 i think i was like again it all started on seventh and eighth grade that i got really started to try to do it who did i talk to i think judd actually transcribed um snl sketches to to take them apart to figure out how they were written that That's why he's so powerful. I didn't do that, I just watched them.

I don't know if it was somebody who, yeah. I'm sure it was him. And so did you get involved with any of that in high school with the comedy writing other than the columns you wrote for your father? Yeah. What? The columns for my father.

Columns for my father sounds like a- That's your next movie. That's a good, that's the name of my autobiography. Well no, that's gonna be your serious movie. Where you're good, that's the name of my autobiography. Well, no, that's going to be your serious movie. Where you're like, I'm going to try it. It's close to my heart. Columns from My Father. It stars Robert Redford.

Yeah. It's co-written. You and Dave Barry write it. What were we talking about? Oh, high school. You didn't do any- I went to a boarding school. I went to an Episcopal boarding school

and I started a satire magazine in the Episcopal boarding school. Which Episcopal boarding school and I started a satire magazine in the Episcopal boarding school. Which Episcopal boarding school? St. Paul's School. So it's not Exeter. It's not Exeter, but it's near Exeter. It's like Exeter, but smaller. It's the competitive one.

I think I've heard. It's more WASP-y than Exeter. So you're one of those, you know, you're one of those like, you know, those- In denial of my Jewish heritage. No, you're a good student. Your parents are like, we want to get him the best education. Yeah.

This will set him up for Havid. Exactly. Yeah. That was the idea. Yeah. I'm not even going to deny it. Yeah. That's what was happening.

That's the only reason that's how the aristocracy works. Right. It's like, you know, Jews have to wedge themselves into weird religious institutions. Yeah. I mean, I've been to more church than synagogue by like a lot by like and when i hear episcopal hymns i feel at home as does my brother who went to saint paul we both feel more at home when you hear like you know all things bright and beautiful or whatever i feel like a home yeah i feel at home so they pounded that india oh yeah you went to temple or sorry not

temple you went to church four times a week you had to yeah get the fuck out of here i mean they would claim it was like a non-denominational thing but like you were singing hymns and shit so you're at saint paul's yeah which is you know modern i'm sure there's a lot of drug addicts and rich kids oh yeah it's the mainly that of course of course it is i didn't fit in you know i didn't you know i didn't really fit i had a great junior. You know, I didn't really fit. I had a great junior high experience, and then I didn't really fit in. In Florida. In Florida. I had a lot of friends. It was all Jews.

Public junior high? No. All right. Of course not. Come on. All right. All right. My dad's a stockbroker.

What do you think? Well, I thought maybe you had a little bit of the townie experience in school where you mixed with the locals and you got yourself into a little trouble. You wrecked a muscle car because Jesse, your non--jewish friend was drunk jesse and zach no there was no uh no we didn't mix the townies but there were very few jews at st paul's it was actually the only experience time in my life i wasn't around mainly jews you weren't surrounded by the cultural familiarity of judaism yeah yeah Which I didn't even understand that that was part of what was making me feel out of sorts, but it really was.

Yeah. You know. Well, there's a shorthand. Yeah. With a bunch of rich Jewish kids. Right. Exactly. You're both,

you're all living pretty much the exact same life. Mm-hmm. Give or take a parent who might have been. You can make jokes. Who might have been in prison for tax problems. Right. Yeah. You can make jokes and people get your other Jews get them,

or at least get that you're trying to make a joke. Sure. And if it doesn't work, they make fun of you and then you make fun, you know, but at a WASP school, it's not like that. Right.

You make a joke and you just get sour faces. Everyone goes, who let the Jew in? No. That's a great, that's another great impression. You're killing it I was like looking around

for like my waspy friend yeah it's they don't even know there's no it's not it's not like school ties it's not anti-semitic you're just not

you just don't I just didn't fit in it's culturally different it's just culturally totally different were there any people that you kept in touch with like were there any

celebrities or scions of wealthy families always like when i talk to people who've gone to those prep schools it's like was there a kennedy there was there a there was a rockefeller oh rockefeller was a rock for i didn't stand no i wasn't friends with anyone there that was no you weren't friends with the rockefeller kid i was not friends was you was your troublemaker she uh she was she was a kind of okay kind they're all troubled you know

when you have that much like. When you don't have to do anything. When you have to do anything, you're troubled. Yeah. So, yeah. So it was, you know, but. Your only responsibility in life is to sort of spend some of the family money wisely and try not to destroy yourself with the other family money. Exactly.

And you do the whole thing underneath an imposing oil portrait of your grandfather. With no lips. With no lips. With no lips. So like that, that is, I feel like. Your lizard looking grandfather. Yeah. That whole experience made me really happy I wasn't born into that. Yeah.

Well, that's the one thing you can bank on, you know, as a Jew of our generation. It's like, you know, just two generations back, there's a boat involved in some shitty work. Exactly. Yeah, my great grandfather was literally a button salesman. Love it, buttons. Yeah, he's literally a button, he pushed a cart around and sold buttons.

That is great. Yeah, you know so. On the Lower East Side? I think so, yeah. Yeah, why not? Yeah, so it's. Who needs buttons? Yeah.

He's the button man, speaking Yiddish. I love that about Jews. My great-grandfather just made the ends of shoelaces. What? There's a guy that made those? Yep. People needed them then. Then there's the great-grandparents who were sort of like, he did a lot of things.

Yeah. First, there was the food cart. Then he had the dry cleaning place. He made sauerkra the dry cleaning place he made sauerkraut yeah made for three years we just lived off sauerkraut he's made sauerkraut they'd still do now that's a popular profession i just talked to some i talked to uh i went to my brother my brother's kids bat mitzvah niche pickling that's right yeah it happens like i talked to a guy that him and his fiancee is cousin on my, my brother's wife's side who they make their own tempeh.

And I think they're up in Northern California. They make tempeh fresh. Okay. And, and, and I'm like, well, do you do other stuff like, um, like pickles at all? And they're like, we tried to do that. And I'm like, well, like a sauerkraut. And they're like, no, there's like two or three people in our area. That's already making sauerkraut.

You know what I think when I eat tempeh? I wish this was homemade. But it's the weirdest thing. No, I don't actually think that. I know, but someone's got to make it. And then you sort of wonder like, wow, what is it? What would that taste like? Because I don't mind tempeh, but all I have to choose from is that weird brick of it.

There was this Japanese restaurant that was briefly open in la that made fresh tofu at your table and it tasted exactly like normal tofu i thought tofu took some time to sort of you can make the soft the softest tofu like i guess you could make it quickly quickly yeah and it didn't taste much different than normal tofu so that so that was just a spectacle an unnecessary spectacle yeah exactly it was so what your friend is doing is a waste is a waste of time i'm really sorry to lay than normal tofu. So that was just a spectacle, an unnecessary spectacle. Yeah, exactly. So what your friend is doing is a waste of time. I'm really sorry to lay that out there. Well, they're only distributing it locally

to a few restaurants or hoping to go big with it. You know what, I'll invest in that. Yeah, get into the tempeh racket. Sounds good. It's the future. Not even sure what it is. No, it's fermented something. Soy, I think.

Back to you, back to the button salesman, back to St. Paul, I think. Okay. Back to you. Okay. Back to the button salesman. Back to St. Paul's. Here we are. Yes. You're surrounded by aliens, and you start a satire rag. Yes. It had not been part of the, you created it? I created it.

Does it still exist now? No. Oh, so it didn't have traction. It went away after, I graduated, and then it was around for a few years. It didn't catch. Well, you know, actually what happened is what happens with all things that are like that, which is they started to make vicious fun of specific students, and so they shut it down. They get in trouble.

Yeah, they get in trouble. Well, what was the angle? The angle of the satire magazine? Mm-hmm. What was it called? It was called Spallets. Spallets? It was an anagram of St. Paul's.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay. There anagram of St. Paul's. Okay. There you go. Okay. Nothing better than talking about the comedy you thought of in high school. And what was the cutting edge satire that you were doing at that time? It was just making fun of the different tropes of boarding school.

Uh-huh. You know. Yeah. It wasn't, you know. How many pages are we talking? You know, it'd be about maybe 20 pages. Oh, yeah? 15 pages. Do you have a staff of writers?

Yeah, we got a staff. So you put together... It was all the nerds. It was all the nerds. There were a few Jews and nerdy people. Yeah. And we all got together. Comedy nerds.

Comedy nerds, yeah. So you had to get a charter and stuff? Did you have to... We got approval from the... You had to do some paperwork? We had to do a little paperwork. We got a tiny amount of money to do it. And you were the editor i was the editor so this is founder founder and editor of spouts and it was really fun spouts yeah but this was a practical experience

for you that that was made you learn uh deliberation of uh assignments yeah uh editing yeah what's funny what isn't funny funny. How to let down people gently. Oh, why'd you have to do that? That was something. Well, you know, what happened is there was a period of time where I was, I started, they were putting together an issue, right? We were all putting together an issue, and I suddenly found that I had a girlfriend, so I wasn't around for that.

Yeah. And I came back to look at the issue, and I didn't think it was good. Right. And I said to everyone, this is not good. That's how you said it? That's how I said it. And I said, this isn't good right and i said to everyone this is not good that's how you said it that's how i said it and i said this isn't good and this is true this is a thing that i learned from this experience did you ever say this who fucking wrote this well one of you assholes any i should have no i just said this is this is not good this isn't good it's not up to and then some of them started crying and then i realized oh i'm not kidding and then i and and then i probably was slightly meaner than this is not good

but it was around yeah I think now I'm starting to question your whole story no this is not good made someone cry that kid had trouble anyway

I was they've been working on it constantly for like a while it takes you know especially at that time it takes a while to pull this stuff together with photoshop

did one kid just start like with the layout he was trying to hold in his tears and then at first there was silence and I was kind of like tearing it apart and then but I literally learned silence and I was kind of like tearing it apart and then

but I literally learned I literally learned from that and you take that into all the when you're trying to criticize someone

whoever it is you have to do it in a way where they feel really good about the criticism you're giving them right I think to make

to then make everyone excited so this is not good is not tearing it apart so there was some tearing going on yeah well then I gave specific examples of what was bad about it but was there ever this sort of like you thought

this was funny i probably said that i said i think i said this is not good this isn't funny what's funny about this yeah this isn't good yeah and i did but none of this sort of like you're you're not right for humor no i didn't i didn't there was we didn't have an access to enough people to kick people off yeah but did Yeah. But did any of those- In fact, my senior year, I remember two hot girls joined, probably just to put it on their resume, on their college resume. For spouts?

They only came to the photo for the yearbook, but we were all really excited. We couldn't believe it. That's so sad. They're here. They're here. Guys, we got two- So it's just a picture of a bunch of nerds

looking at two girls? It's literally a picture of a bunch of nerds literally a bunch of nerds exactly it really is i never saw them again but i didn't care i was like whatever did any of those guys uh go on to be writers any of the guys that you knew in high school you still friends with any of them i'm yeah i know i'm friends with i'm friends with them no none of them went on to no show business no show business from that all right so so after spouts the tremendous success and i did a a radio show in boarding school. Really? Yeah, briefly.

What was that? That was, I did it, I would rip off Saturday Night Live skits and put them on. You'd steal them. I'd do like the version, I'd replace the like character, you know, I remember the one, the, what was it, the, there was, I can't remember the skit now, but there was an SNL skit that we kind of ripped off uh you know so appropriating not a problem for you early on early on no definitely not a problem as i'm learning it's good see i guess it's the equivalent of like you know trying

to like figure out how those things work right you know yeah okay we'll let you off i know yeah it was high school it stopped it stopped after i don't know if there's youtube out out there of it you could be there definitely isn't i'm too that. I don't know if there's YouTube out there of it. You could be in trouble. There definitely isn't. I'm too old for that. Right now, there's someone looking. I'm going to hang this Nick Stoller guy up. Yeah.

This guy's going down. Well, the good thing, though, about being at an Episcopal school is no one else was into comedy, so they didn't know I was ripping it off. But I do think that that is like a learning process. Yeah. It's some version of whether it was Judd or whoever it was that I talked to who was writing those scripts down for just to look at them. Yeah.

Or just to feel where the beats are. It's important. Yeah. It's like, it's, I mean, it's the equivalent of like, I don't know, I feel like you're in high school and like, you know, the president of your high school does like a top 10 list. Yeah. Like they're ripping off Letterman, but also who cares? It's high school.

Yeah, I get it. You know, it's like that. All right. So you got the grades to get into harvard obviously yes who do i know from your group in harvard um well you know mike sure he does uh he created uh parks and rec in brooklyn 99 a lot of tv guys that guy just i just did a panel with him yeah he did a lot of um how old are you i'm 38 oh boy tough life you're living i know it's hard yeah maybe something will happen for you eventually i hope so

i hope so got my fingers crossed who else was there um i'm trying to think who was bj novak um who else what was he like then uh i knew him a little make an impression on you yeah he was very sure of himself i didn't know him that well but he was he was uh that goes a long way my friend yeah but being sure yourself and i knew he did stand-up which blew my mind like i couldn't believe people were doing stand-up i just saw him in uh nashville okay read from his book oh cool and he was very confident yeah yeah oh yes yeah you need that if you're gonna be in front of the camera but what is what is this harvard thing what do you what is it all right so you it's a real conspiracy the lampoon it's all the harvard lampoon it's a real conspiracy all the

comedy there's it's a you know there's a lot of conspiracy it's a brotherhood brotherhood yeah but um but still like you know i've talked to conan about specifically about harvard i feel like i've talked to a couple of other Harvard people. Have you been to the Lampoon? I've walked by it many times. I went to school in Boston. Okay. So I would go over to Harvard.

Yeah. And I would hang out and be like, I don't know what the big deal is. Whatever. Yeah, I'd go right- This is dumb. I'd go right onto the quad and go like, do you guys think you're better than me? Right. And they'd remove me.

Yeah. And no one would respond. No. It was even worse. That guy's here again. lot and go like do you guys think you're better than me right and they'd remove me yeah no and no one would respond no it was even worse that guy's here again sir do you need any help finding the tube no i know where i am sir are you okay would you like i'm just going to the tasty would you care for some hot soup yeah did you get to go the tasty yeah yeah i love it's gone now i know it's all gone everything it's all banks they're all different banks they're gonna tear harvard down i heard and just replace it with a bank yeah why not a bank in a studio yeah you can shoot you can now shoot it at harvard and a training center for third world dictators

um so all right so but like i'm sort of mystified by it but obviously you know you're well just a guy you had your mind and you but I was also obsessed with the Lampoon like I was obsessed with it before

because I was obsessed with comedy writing I knew about like Doug Kenny and like those people the original Lampoon the original Lampoon and I was

and then I became obsessed with the current Lampoon and knew that it had some entree into TV writing which is what I wanted to do so I would read the Lampoons in high school,

and I really wanted to be on the Lampoon. But you read the old stuff, and you were a fan of Animal House, perhaps? Yeah, oh yeah, of course. But you read some of the archival Lampoons? Yeah, I read... PJ O'Rourke, Tony Hendra, Kenny. Yeah, once I was...

I knew about Doug Kenny probably from Animal House, and then I just knew about him, and then I read a lot of those, there's all the archival stuff is in the library at the Lampoon so I read those once I was on the Lampoon I read all those and they're so funny What, the actual National Lampoon? The actual National Lampoon. And then the actual

Lampoon going back to what, the 1800s or whatever? That's not as funny Not as good. Didn't get the references No. There's also the the entire the collected works of punch that british yeah that that also is not funny yeah i've tried to read it to understand to be like you know it's interesting did you glean anything from it no just that everything is ends but what is the education what is the education that life is short your life is short so so make some money make some money now because in a split second no one will care make sure you make friends here

be nice because then you get more flops yeah but but is there some the curriculum the curriculum what did you study english all right so how does it work but you're once i got Harvard, I was like, I'm basically done studying. I just want to get on Lampoon and have a good time. But how did you do? What was your GPA? It was like, the thing about Harvard is once you get in, it's very easy to get like a B or B+. Yeah.

It's basically impossible to get like an A. Yeah. So I was just like, I'm fine with a B or B+. But you were able to do work. You had discipline. You knew what you had to do. Boarding school teaches you some of that too. Right. Because you learn how to deal with your time but the track you were on was not the bad one no yeah there was just no way that was

going to happen no so you go to harvard but is there some magic is there something like outside of the weird fraternal brotherhood of the lampoon and harvard in general that's designed to sort of control and maintain the power in all industries? Yeah. Is there some other secret education? No, there's literally, you've seen Harry Potter. There's literally magic. There is, right? No, there's, you get, yeah.

Like, you go to the lampoon and a magic clown. You meet a magic clown. You meet a magic clown. Yeah. And a beam of magic light comes out of his crotch. Of course it does. Right out of his crotch. Yeah. I mean, no, I learned, you know, in college,

I learned a lot about comedy from The Lampoon, and also I did improv comedy. And both of those things helped me a lot. But what happens in The Lampoon? I mean, I know I talked to Conan about it, but I don't know if I'm clear on it. What do you do there? You're hanging out with a lot of people

who are obsessed with comedy and comedy writing all the time, and you're basically constantly riffing all day, which is something that was new to me. For the magazine the magazine for the magazine and also you're just hanging out and riffing right which at which was you know a bit exhausting like sometimes like there are some people who just spend their whole lives at the lampoon i was someone who spent half my life there and half my life doing other stuff right and you know and so is the other stuff improv and then also just hanging out with my roommates and stuff yeah what they end up doing uh one is a reporter yeah one one works in finance finance yeah one works in publishing yeah i know it is vague i he explains to me every time what he does and i can never remember

he lives in england he does finance yeah he's a finance guy he's a finance guy but they're your buddies yeah they're my friends then you go over to lampoon then then just get into the mix get into the mix and riff. The comedic cock fight. Exactly. Who's going to get to the top of the bat? Who's going to be able to riff the longest and the best? Who's going to tag this fucker? Yeah.

But that riffing is a good... It was like a comedy writer's room, which I didn't understand. So you learn to riff, I guess. Who was the funniest guy there? At the time? Yeah. Oh, there were a bunch.

Be honest. Be honest. Couple names. Couple names. Couple names. Mike Schur is very funny. Okay. Super funny guy.

This guy, Charlie Grandy. What happened to that guy? He writes for Mindy. Oh, he does? Yeah, he's super funny. Matt Murray. Yeah? Super funny guy.

What's he up to now? He writes for Parks. Give me one guy that you don't know what happened to. No one knows what happened to that guy. No, I don't know. I know what one knows what happened to that guy no i don't know there's there i know what all of them that's why it's unrealistic that's why it's not real life and that's why it's not no there's a guy there's a guy that where's the guy that went off the rails oh that guy lost his mind there was actually one guy i wasn't in touch with for a while and i wondered what happened to him and then we reconnected over uh email because i was posting

lots of i'm into artisan baking. What? I'm into baking breads. Okay, fine. It's how I relax, whatever. It doesn't matter. It does matter. And this guy contacted me. He contacted me and was like, I'm into this too. Breads. Breads. I'm writing that down. Artisan bread. You're putting together kind of a pattern. No, you used the word artisan

right here in front of me. You're into artisan bread. I'm into artisan baking. You said that publicly. I'm proud of it. I'm not going to be. You said that publicly. I'm proud of it. I'm not gonna be knocked down for that. I just, you know, there's a way to get into that a little more delicately. It was a bit shocking.

It was shocking. Like you say, like why, it's weird. Here's how you do it. Next time, next interview. I have an interesting hobby. I enjoy baking breads. And then people are like,

really, what kind of breads? Well, I guess some people would call them artisan breads. And then people are like, really? What kind of breads? Well, I guess some people would call them artisan breads. That's humble bragging. I don't humble brag. Where's the humble brag? I guess some people would call it artisan baking. You just got to own it. But when you say artisan breads, you've elevated yourself.

You're Harvard in your hobbies you're you're you don't you don't i bake i enjoy baking breads i do a lot of different kinds of breads no you i'm artisan breads yeah fine they're artisan well i can show you photos what does it mean what does artisan bread mean so you do a focaccia what makes it art do you make focaccia no i haven't done that what do you focaccia? No, I haven't done that. What do you make? A rye bread? I've made a gruyere loaf. Okay, well, that sounds a little artisan. The point is that one of the guys...

No, the point is, have you done the classics? I've done white bread, like a sourdough. Uh-huh. I did a rye. You did a rye? I did a rye. It came out well. It was a little flat.

A little dense? It was a little dense. That's a problem. But it was good. Because it's hard to get it to get the nice... It's hard to get rye. It came out well. It was a little flat. A little dense? It was a little dense. That's a problem. But it was good. Because it's hard to get it to get the nice- It's hard to get rye to rise. Right. And the nice crust, and then you-

It had a good crust, but it just didn't rise well. It was dense. It was dense. It rose enough. It was still good, but it just was a little dense. But have you ever baked a bread because it relaxes you, and then when the final product comes out, you just angrily throw it away? You eat a few chunks of it angrily, and then you comes out, you just angrily throw it away. You eat like a few chunks of it angrily

and then you're like, fuck this and you throw it away. I've thrown away some breads. Yeah. But it's the process is relaxing. Yeah, but that might be the real art

is the throwing away the breads angrily. That's like a, that's what, a koan? I don't know what is that. Yes. So, okay.

So you made a gruyere loaf and this is what defines your hobby. I enjoy it. I enjoy it. Look, I like cooking too. I do not know why. Do you bake? I have.

Okay. Do you make bread? No, I don't make bread. You should try it. It's relaxing. I haven't baked. I haven't done a lot of cooking lately. I have a few cake recipes I enjoy.

I've made some corn breads. I have made a rye that came out dense and it was not my thing. It takes a lot of patience to make bread and i'm afraid of bread it's a lot of useless calories in bread i know a lot of people like bread i don't know why i'm taking this tone with you but you're an artisan baker on the side you seem mad i'm a little mad you're a little angry right now i guess i use the term i i with my friends i use the term i'm an artisan baker as ironically all the time. And I dropped it on you without that familiarity.

That's right. You bring forth such a familiarity that I thought I could use it because I was like, oh, now we're old friends and you'll understand I'm being kind of ironic. But it wasn't, I forgot that this is an interview and that you don't know me that well. I think you're backpedaling now. I think that when you said it to me, it was in earnest. It was, okay. We're at kind of a standoff.

A little bit. Yeah, a little bit. But we can get through it. Yeah. Tell me about your failures as an improv performer. Should I show you the photos of the artisan bread? After. Okay.

After. Okay. No, so you did improv, and that, what, did that, see, I have to assume that hanging out at the Lampoon and riffing with those guys, and now I understand it. I don't know that I really have to assume that hanging out the lampoon and riffing with those guys and and now i understand it i don't know that i really understood it that yeah that you really are and you also just drink and party and do college shit right but that's like that's like a big part but the idea is writing comedy yeah you're writing comedy you're hanging out with

people who are all obsessed with comedy it's like you know i imagine when you're hanging out with comics you're all joking around it's like that it's that kind of everyone is intensely joking that's right you're you're with brilliant people saying brilliant things. Yeah. And yeah, and just joking. Yeah. Which I hadn't been around before. Right. You know? Yeah. So but the improv thing, I assume that the combination of the two working with other people learning those chops because you had to learn something about performing. Yeah. In order to direct. Yes, that was with improv. And I did some acting too in college and both things helped me understand more about acting. Okay. And with improv too, you're yelling out, you know, you're thinking of stuff on the spot and what you realize in improv is there's nothing scary about that.

Yeah. That like, you know, a few things will fail, but who cares? And so you learned how to transcend the fear of not getting a laugh. Yes. That's a big one. Which is big, yeah. So like, because you sort of dismiss it like, you know, you just didn't, then you don't have to be afraid.. That's a big one. Which is big, yeah. Which is big. Because you sort of dismiss it like,

you know, you just didn't, then you don't have to be afraid. But it's scary at first. Yeah, and it's scary, and also you realize that your fellow performer will help you. So if I go out and do a bad joke, my friend might do a good one

and help me out. Unless your friend really enjoys watching you fail. Yeah. That's how he gets a laugh. Right. That's more a comic thing. Yeah. He's like, oh, he's tanking that's hilarious yeah when you're because when you're tanking an improv you're bringing everyone down with you yeah yeah i would do that on purpose i think if

i was an improv did you do improv no there seems to be a real divide because i was i was doing it now i guess we're doing a little show yeah we're doing it now we're doing a bit of a show yes and yes although you really know you really knowed my artisan baker bit i don't know you really knowed it i don't know if i knowed it but i did stop us you yeah i don't i wanted more clarification that was that was the opposite of you no but that was a no but i don't think so i know but i think that what we got to was you know if i had an improv here guy improv guy here, they would get into it. We would do a good kind of skit about artisanal. If I didn't do what I did, we would not have gotten to the hilarious Gruyere loaf,

which you, again, presented as serious. I should have brought it because if I brought the Gruyere loaf, you would backpedal. I wouldn't be the one to backpedal. No, I'm sure it would be great. It's delicious. I'm just being a dick because you went to Harvard. Oh, okay. No, I'm sure it'd be great. It's delicious. I'm just being a dick because you went to Harvard. Oh, okay. Oh.

Okay, now I understand what's happening. Yeah. Oh, my God. Huge relief. Yeah. Of course. I should have worn

a Harvard sweatshirt. You should have. It would have been, it would have just been, just started off that way. No, it's been fun, I think. Yeah. Hasn't it?

It's been great. Oh, okay. I love this love this i just i don't i didn't get the feeling that you're really taking it no i was i'm having a good time it's my problem no it's not your problem that i i failed um thank god something worked out yeah but uh all right so but so now tell me how the conspiracy tell me how how the... I'm just happy something worked out for me at 48 years old. I'm glad that everything... Right. You know, I hope to God that your life keeps going as well as it does.

It is weird, though, like, at my age when I run into people who are still mad about Harvard for some reason. Beg your pardon? Like, you'll run into someone, and you'll be like, oh... Like, they'll be like, where do you go to college? I'll be like, Harvard. And they'll be like, oh, you went to Harvard. It's like, we're now, like, all 40. Come on. Let's move on. It doesn't go away go away it doesn't go away why would you think that would

go away because i don't know everyone's found their own route have they some people haven't but a lot of people from harvard haven't found their own at this point yeah you can't yeah anyways no no i get it i think like within the comedy community there's this idea that uh that it gives you i think false entree yes into it's a huge step it's a huge leg up yeah it is and and i think that pisses some people off as it should right because it's a huge leg up yeah but but do you find in your experience are there people that went to harvard that got that leg up that didn't deserve it there are people who maybe got their first job right maybe didn't deserve it but then you don't you know you can't last you can't suck yeah if you suck you don't you don't go on so like that's

that's but yeah it certainly helps people you know so how does that work exactly so when you graduated what what what did you do did you come out here immediately no i went to new york okay and i worked in advertising and i tried to really yeah what the fuck was that about well i was trying to break into the shows there in new york right which shows uh letterman letterman saren alive so you're submitting packages yeah monologue ideas uh jokes and sketches right snl threw it to snl david letterman yeah and i think conan did you have an agent immediately ideas, jokes, and sketches. Right. Through SNL. Through SNL. David Letterman. David Letterman, yeah. And I think Conan.

Did you have an agent immediately? No, I didn't have an agent. How'd you send? You just mailed a package? Like through friends. Okay. Through friends that I might know, yeah. Nothing happened.

Nothing happened? No. So you're like, I'm going to be a copywriter? Well, I wanted a job. I wanted to have a job to know I could just have a normal job. Right. Because I didn't, I, you know, at that point was like, I don't know if this will happen. Right. So I want to have a job just to know I can have a job. Right. Because I didn't, I, you know, at that point was like, I don't know if this will happen. Right.

So I want to have a job just to know I can have a job. Right. So I tried to, and I, And to see what that felt like. Yeah, and I was very like,

anxious about graduating from college. I didn't, I wanted to have something lined up so I got an internship at a ad firm. The idea was you can take your comedy chops

and apply it to, hey, buy a drink. Exactly. Yeah. Look at these shoes. This is, yeah. You should, you should do some copywriting. comedy chops and apply it to, hey, buy a drink. Exactly. Yeah. Look at these shoes. Yeah. You should do some copywriting.

Hey, eat this food. Yeah, eat this. Check out my phone. Yeah. This is the best one, stupid. Hey, dummy, this is the best. You'll like this shirt. Yeah.

Wow, someone's going to rip that off. Advertising taught me something. Just to, because it forced me to write about stuff I didn't want to write about. Yeah. So it, you know, it forced me to get over writer's block or whatever that is. To see it as a job. Yeah. To see it as a job.

And that, and that, and you know, and I think, you know, you can sit, you know, at the time, like I would look at like a Molson Canadian and I'd have to write like 20 ideas for it. And that's like, doesn't, it's not exactly inspiring. Right. So, but it, but it, you know, it was a good, it was really good training ground just for treating it like a job. So when did that crap out on you? I quit and moved to LA. Okay. Cause I was doing, I was doing pretty well in advertising and I, the first year in advertising, you don't get paid that much. Right. And then if you're doing well, they start to pay you well. And I knew that if that happened, I would never quit. It'd be hard for you to leave. Yeah.

So who did you call out here when you're like, I'm coming? I called a friend of mine. From Harvard? From Harvard. Yeah. And I crashed on his couch and started to apply to stuff out here. But okay, so let's talk about this cachet. Yes.

So when you come out here as a harvard grad who did some time so mad i'm not mad you're doing great i'm not mad i'm doing good i'm trying to impress you and i'm the one that went to harvard you are i'm trying to impress you yeah but but it's okay i appreciate that so you come out here you swept on a couch that sounds like it must been hard for you. It was. I'd never done it before. I thought couches were just for sitting. So you call up who?

And it wasn't. I'd only sat on silk couches. And it was some sort of linen. Oh, awful. Disgusting. It's really hard for you. Disgusting. I'm sorry you had to go through that.

It was horrible. Yeah. For how long? Like three, four days? Viewers can't see it, but I'm crying right now. I knew I'd get you. Listeners can't hear. I knew I'd get you to cry.

That's what happens on this show. Yeah. Everyone cries. You spent like a week on a couch and then you were employed. Yeah. And then I was employed. It was a hard week though. I bet.

I bet. It was, yeah. It was tough. No. So you call your friend who went to Harvard and you hang out with him. So what is like, no, I'm not being condescending. I'm trying not to. Yeah.

You can condescend all you want. I've already done that. Yeah. Let's get real. Right. So as I want to understand this Harvard Brotherhood. So what- Harvard Brotherhood.

No, but you focus. So you start wanting to get writer work. Yeah. So you reach out to who? So my friend, Mike Schur, who I mentioned. And what was he doing at that time? He wrote for SNL. But he was in LA?

He was in New York. So he helped me. His office mate was this guy, Mike McCullers, who co-wrote the Austin Powers movies. Okay. And he, Mike recommended- Is he a Harvard guy? No.

Oh. Mike McCullers is Yale. Okay. All right. Go ahead. So, do you want me to let that settle in? No, I'm good. Are you okay?

No, I'm fine. How mad are you? I'm not mad. You guys deserve it. You focused. You did the work. In high school, we happened to just- Yeah, I know.

To focus. I know. You have discipline. I get it. Right. I get it. So, he, so, and McCullers was doing a show, Austin Powers animated series.

That was going to be on HBO. Right. So I applied to that. Okay. And got a writing job on that. So that's the way it worked. Yeah. Your Harvard buddy from the Lampoon, Michael Schur.

Michael Schur. Says, hey, McCullers, they got this kid that I know from Harvard. He's a funny guy. He quit advertising because he was making too much money. Michael Schur. Michael Schur. Says, hey, McCullers, they got this kid that I know from Harvard. He's a funny guy. Right. He quit advertising because he was making too much money. I wasn't yet. Okay.

He almost made a lot of money, and he decided that he wants to write. I'm going to get killed after this. Someone's going to literally kill me. No. No, it's fine. And so you write on the animated show, and that gets you started. That got me started. That got me my agent okay so then austin powers animated series goes for 10 weeks and then the powers that be decide they don't want to do it and so it gets shut down

we made a few bucks yeah yeah and i got my agent right uh and then i kind of have a year of doing nothing like really nothing really i mean i'm writing i'm trying to write spec scripts and stuff for what i get on tv shows mean, at the time I was writing, I'm sure I was writing like a Just Shoot Me spec script or just whatever was on at the time. Working, doing the thing. Just trying to, yeah. And then Judd was hiring for Undeclared.

Right. And he just, he hired, he wanted people close to college age and he hired out of UTA completely. And I mean, and it's one of those really lucky things if I hadn't been at UTA, I wouldn't have been hired. Right. And he didn't know you.

He did not know me. But you submitted what? He asked to submit story ideas. So I submitted a bunch of, and I love Freaks and Geeks. Yeah. And I submitted stuff. And, you know,

his style of comedy was what I grew to love, you know? Right. I mean, I started with that, you know, broader stuff. Sure. But then got really into

like James Brooks and later Woody Allen and, you know, Nora Ephron, all that stuff. So that kind of- Deeper stuff. Deeper stuff. Yeah. And so I was with Freaks and Geeks, you know, I was like, oh my God, someone's doing this. And then from there, then that show was, went away, but I met like Seth, he and I were office

mates and there's a lot of people on that show that were awesome. Rodney Rothman, someone else I- So that's where you built a relationship with seth yeah uh-huh yeah and jason siegel yeah it was a recurring guest star or whatever then that show goes away uh it was canceled or whatever and then i had another year of trying to get on shows and it wasn't uh happening and then judd asked me if i wanted to write a script with him that was for for a screenplay. And I was also at the time writing screenplays for myself. When did you get married? I got married in 2005. So after this.

Yeah. Yeah. I got married after this. My first screenwriting gig was around when my wife moved out. Not moved out. You were in a long distance relationship. I was in a long distance relationship. Where was she?

She was in Ann Arbor, Michigan. How did you meet someone in ann arbor she also she went to harvard we met through friends oh it's a good story she went to harvard what does she do she uh is a novelist really but for she wrote up she wrote a book and then she's now she's been uh mom two writers huh how many kids you do you have? We have two daughters. Really? Yeah. How old are they? Six and one. How's that going?

It's going great. Five year gap. Yeah. It's a long one. Five year gap, yeah. Was that a plan? No, that was not a plan. The first one was easy.

The second one required a lot of science. Oh, okay. I get it. But you always wanted two. Yes, I wanted two. So what movie did you write with Judd? We wrote a movie for, uh, Sandler, uh, that didn't happen, but it was a good experience. Um, I mean, we wrote the script.

So this is before Judd is Judd, really? Yeah. Right. This is before Judd is Judd. And then he, yeah. Okay. What was that movie about? Uh, it was about like a middle child, like this big family, um, who's like a disaster.

Uh-huh. Um, and then, uh, and then we family, who's like a disaster. And then we wrote, and then he asked me to write Fun with Dick and Jane with him. That's a rewrite, right? That was, yeah, it was a remake of the- George Segal. George Segal one, yeah.

Uh-huh. Yeah. That didn't do great, right? It weirdly did do well. It did? Yeah, it's, you know. Who was in that again? It was Jim Carrey and Tia Leone, Alec Baldwin.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Tia Leone. Yeah. I love her. And Alec Baldwin's playing a yeah, yeah. Tia Leone. Yeah. I love her. And Alec Baldwin's playing a little bit of what he played later on 30 Rock. It's like that kind of character a little bit. Jim Carrey too, who you worked with again. Yeah. I worked with him on Yes.

So now you've written a movie that's become a movie. Yeah. And then what happens? And then that started to get me screenwriting work. So then I started to write you know scripts basically and doing rewrite jobs and stuff and then

so secret rewrite jobs secret rewrite jobs on what the let me think I worked on this movie called Just My Luck that was a Lindsay Lohan film

so that was a rewrite job I did yeah you know movies like that sort of an ironic title I know if it's not about drug addiction.

I know, right? It was the first one where she started to be weird. I think that was the first one. But when someone does that, like, I don't know that people really know that, that writers get sort of, they get to do passes on scripts and they get paid for that script doctor work. Yeah. And that's a good gig. It is, yeah. Because it's, you know, you don paid for that script doctor work. Yeah. And that's a good gig. It is, yeah.

Because you don't really have anything to lose. No. But you did a lot of that? Yeah, I did a lot of that. Well, it started first- Punch up. During Undeclared,

I wrote a bunch of screenplays that were bad. Right. I had to kind of learn how to do it. Right. And then I wrote one, a spec script that was good

that didn't sell or anything but got me meetings. Uh-huh. So, yeah. So, that's a good gig. Yeah. wrote one a spec script that was good that didn't sell or you know anything but copy meetings and so yeah so that so that's a good gig so then what what how do you get from there to direct forgetting sarah marshall um it was so judd had done uh super bad and 40 old he'd produced super bad and had done 40 old virgin and was doing or he was doing he was doing knocked up that's what he was doing knocked up and it was coming together virgin and was doing or he was doing he was doing knocked up that's what he was doing knocked up and it was coming together well and he had a he was trying to become judd like he had a lot of leverage yeah and uh siegel told me about jason and i really bonded

kind of during undeclared and we kind of found a lot of the same stuff funny yeah uh like i always say it's like grown men crying yeah it's kind of what we both find interesting he seems to be able to play that weird vulnerable dude a lot yeah like there's a lot of heart to it whether it's genuine or not i don't know but he can play it oh it's totally genuine yeah yeah and the and we did that on undeclared that the the episode i wrote was for him and he finds out in that episode that his girlfriend his long-distance girlfriend cheated on him with jay baruchel and he comes to beat up jay baruchel right so, girlfriend played by Carla Gallo. So, that was like, and that, I mean, that is very similar to Sarah Marshall, you know,

in certain ways. Right. Emotionally. Emotionally. So, yeah. So, we really, you know, he also is a Jew who doesn't look totally Jewish. He went to an Episcopal school. Uh-huh.

So, we found that out much later. Right. He had those, you know. Right. But, yeah. So, then I said to, so siegel was telling me about uh his script for gangster marshall but he didn't have a ton of screenwriting experience it was his script it was his script yeah so then he uh so then i said to judd if i kind of guide siegel through

the writing process help him will you support me as a director and judd you know and tv shows writers are kind of are kind of the directors a little bit you know sure um and judd you know was like sure and supported me you know what does. And Judd, you know, was like, sure, and supported me, you know, to do that. What does that mean, support you to? Like, go to the studio and say, I want Nick to direct this. And he's producing it.

He's producing it. And he had leverage, because, like, Virgin had done well. Knocked Up was going to do clearly good, coming out well, and Superbad was coming out well. So that's your first directing gig, a big movie. Yeah.

And how do you step up for that other than just the confidence that you have because of who you are right yeah no i mean it was uh i i the main thing that was really hard was cover learning coverage right so like i didn't understand coverage judd loves coverage he loves coverage yes but i literally i don't i don't mean like how much coverage to shoot but i literally didn't understand how to where to move the camera and eye lines and all that stuff. That's why you got a good DP, right? Yeah, I got a great DP. This guy, Russ Alsabrook.

Who says things like, hey, you might want to shoot the other guy from that side. Yes. And you're like, oh. Yeah. Oh, I knew that. And some of the eye lines don't work in that movie. Oh, really?

There's like a joke that doesn't work because the eye lines are messed up because I didn't know what I was doing. I actually was trying to pay more attention to that on my TV show because Judd actually encouraged me

to direct an episode. Yeah. Did you like it? Which I did. Well, it was hard because I'm in every scene and we- That seems weird.

What do you do? You trust your DP a lot. Okay. And you direct from the set, but actually looking at playback and stuff, I can only do if absolutely necessary

because we didn't have time. How many days per episode? Three. Wow. So I'd like to try it again with a little more engagement, but it was a great experience. Yeah.

No, directing's so much fun. But you had your back covered. Judd was there, and he knew what he was doing. Your DP was good, and he knew what he was doing. Your DP was good and he knew what he was doing. So you were, it was a cushy way

to learn how to do it. Yes. Yeah. And I had, there was also Judd actually, he's really around for pre-production, for writing,

for casting, but then he, he was only around for a week or two during the shoot. And there's this producer, Shauna Robertson, who,

So you were kind of on your own. That must've been a little nerve wracking. It is, but Shauna was there and she really helped me a lot too. So was she she you know she'd produced a bunch of stuff and so knew knew what she was doing and then russ russ the the dp also knew what he was doing so but yeah it was i mean after the movie turned out well or fine or whatever jason said

to me that first week i was worried oh really yeah he was like this was not he thought it was going poorly because i just didn't know i was learning how to do it. Were you panicky? Um, not really. Cause I, I, because I asked a lot of questions. I think, well, that's the testament to what, you know, why you're successful in a way is that if you're not, if you're going to be the guy that's sort of like, all right, I am new to this. You all know I'm new to this and you know, I need to learn, but I'm not going to freak out. Cause I think like when I new to this you all know i'm new to this yeah and you know i need to to learn but i'm not going to freak out yeah like because i think like when i talk to directors you know something that they share is they they generally keep their shit together in terms of the logistic of some things i mean they may get passionate about yelling at actors or whatever

but you're managing an awful lot of responsibility yeah you have to be able to do that yeah and you have to like a lot of a lot of the advice i got was don't pretend you know something if you don't sure ask a question as so i was constantly asking questions and that made jason nervous no that's not what made him nervous what made him nervous i didn't understand coverage so i literally didn't understand how to shoot the scene we were doing no what made him nervous was totally legitimate no seeing your director ask a lot of questions isn't, that's like,

oh great, he wants to know how this works. Right, but not knowing how to direct is a problem. Not knowing how to direct

and there being like a half hour break as like I sit with the DP and he draws what eye lines, like he's literally explaining eye lines like in the Sidney Lumet making movies book.

Right. It's like, yeah, that's what made him nervous. I also, the first week I didn't know like i was i was second guessing my instance because it's all tone with comedy it's all tone which is why i think writer comedy writers can make good if you have social skills it make you can make a good uh director because it's all tone it's it's more that than visuals it's like what do you mean like what's funny like you know what a comedy writer knows what's funny you know what the emotional weight of a scene yeah the point of a scene Like what's funny. Like you know what, a comedy writer knows what's funny, you know?

What the emotional weight of a scene is. Yeah, the point of a scene and what's funny about it, you know? And so like, for example, I've worked on, I've written movies where I see the scene after they've shot it and the director just didn't get what was funny about it.

Like what movie? I can't, I don't want to insult movies, but like, I just don't want to. You don't want to put that shit out there. You're right, you're right. Yeah, sure. But you've seen it sure but i've seen it happen okay yeah and so but anyways i was second guessing my tone so another thing i was doing was having jason be way too broad yeah in some stuff and i would get different levels you know i'd shoot him being grounded normal which is you know the funniest right obviously the only you know and then i'd shoot really broad stuff and judd called

me and was like what what is going on there why are you shooting this crazy broad stuff and i was like i'm just i'm trying to learn i don't know yeah um so yeah and he said stop it he just i then i started to just go with more with my instinct of like let's make this not you know not as broad so then after that you did some writing yes and that movie turned out okay yes man yeah that turned yeah turned out well turned out fine. Yeah. I wrote that. And then, yeah, that actually coincided with Sarah Marshall. I wrote that and then had to leave it to direct Sarah Marshall.

And then Jared Paul and Andy Mogul rewrote it. Very funny guys. And then you get to do Get Him to the Greek and wrote and direct that. Yes. And that was based on those characters that you had familiarity with. Yeah well jonah and russell had really good chemistry at the table read and and it seemed really funny to have them do a movie on like they had just great chemistry i was like i wanted to see what i think jonah is a pretty good adapter like i think that like he could probably have pretty good chemistry with anybody there's just some weird thing about him that you know whether it's serious or comedic you know he

he knows how to to sort of be in relationship comedically with somebody or yeah it's weird it's true he's really good and and also you could tell when in their scenes together they were really trying to figure each other out right which is always a good premise for a comedy it's like most of that most again to the greek is them just trying to figure each other out like yeah and that was a fun romp. Yeah. It was a good romp. Yeah. It was a good romp. And then Gulliver's Travels you wrote, so that didn't fall on you, whatever happened there.

Yeah. Then you did a Muppets movie. Yes. I wrote the Muppets with Siegel. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And James Bowden. It was really fun.

Yeah. It was incredible. Was that a passion project or did Jason think like, you know, this is going to be a cash cow? No, it was a passion project or did Jason think like, you know, this is going to be a cash cow? No, it was a passion project. He, after, I think it was right before Sarah Marshall came out, but we had fun collaborating on that. He called me. He had a general meeting kind of at Disney. And they said, what are you interested in?

He said, what are you guys doing with the Muppets? And they said, we don't know. And then he ended up calling me and saying, do you want to write a Muppet movie? And I was like, of course. And we wrote it over many years. It took a while to get the ball rolling at the studio. And you got want to write a Muppet movie and I was like of course and we wrote it over many years it took a while to get the ball rolling at the studio

and you got to deal with the Muppet people and the Muppet yeah we got to deal with the Muppet people yeah the Henson organization yes

the Henson corporation who say things like this puppet can't do this they do there are a lot of rules for the Muppets there are yeah

how do you know about the rules I'm just speculating there are a ton of rules like what they never refer to themselves as puppets they're not puppets they're like people There are. Yeah. How do you know about the rules? I'm just speculating. There are a ton of rules. Like what? They never refer to themselves as puppets. They're not puppets.

They're like people or creatures or whatever. Right. That was one of the rules. Yeah. They're never mean. Right. You know, there are a bunch of rules. Really?

Yeah. What was the weirdest rule? Oh, the weirdest rule is that the Camilla, the chickens don't talk. Right. They just won't talk. Right. They just won't talk. Right. So that was like- So you got to take that line out. Yeah.

Like we had a joke that like they say one word and they're like, no, the chickens don't talk. And we're like, come on. And that is the name of your book. Chickens Don't Talk. Yeah. And other stories from the trenches. So everything's going good for you. Yeah. I'm happy for you. Thank you. stories from the trenches. So,

everything's going good for you. Yeah. I'm happy for you. Thank you. Thanks very much. I didn't mean to be dickish. No, I liked it. And you're a father and you have a wife. Yes, I have a wife and two kids. Parents are still married. So, why are you in therapy?

I was just getting very anxious. I don't know why. I was getting really anxious. I have that too. Yeah. How was it manifesting itself? Not being able to sleep was a big one. And just generally being, just general anxiety about it. It's a horrible feeling.

It's a horrible, yeah. Are you in therapy for that? Well, no, I'm in therapy for a lot of things. Yeah. But that's sort of a new thing. It's like, it's dread. Yeah. Like, mind manifests itself. And like, I'll have a moment where I'm like, okay a lot of things. Yeah. But that's sort of a new thing. It's like, it's dread. Yeah. Mind manifests itself.

And like, like I'll have a moment where I'm like, okay, everything's good, but Oh fuck. I got to do that thing. Yeah. And, and also like,

why, why am I incapable of relationships? But that's not your problem. Why? Why are you not? Why is that not my problem? I don't know, man,

but the anxiety is just became my problem. Yeah. Yeah. Live in it. Okay. So what do do you what do you do like what what are you anxious about um it would i'm trying to think just like generally like am like what do i'm what am i gonna do when i wake up in the morning i guess right you know like angst general it's a lot of like you're busy and this will sound stupid this will sound jackass You make a Greer love

Yeah make Greer Exactly I do stuff like that To try to like You know But it's a lot of like Like a lot of Yeah

That kind of anxiety Like just the day Yeah The daily anxiety Yeah Huh So yeah It is a little dread

Like before you go to bed There's dread Yeah Before you go to bed at night Like ugh Yeah or just wake up You know early Not sleep that well right yeah you know and just be like why and i don't know why i'm anxious because generally you know i feel do you have a relatively happy do you have a right you know but it's like but yeah is it are you finding any of it it's just sort of

existential like you know what's the point i think some of it might be that yeah i think some of it's right because you've had a tremendous amount of success. You're not even 40. Yeah. So, like, then it's sort of like, well, what happens from 40 to 50? Yeah. And I think I was really focused on, like, career stuff, like everyone, you know? And then there's, like, and then there's something like, well, this is it. But see, isn't that the worst feeling? Like, even now, like, I'm doing better than I've ever done before. Like, I'm making a living, and it's an honest living.

Yeah. As far as I can tell. Yes. That, you know, at some point, you know you know and it was i was never a careerist i never really thought about making money which was an issue that i always had but but i i'm doing okay but then like when when all that shit is in place and you're doing you know million dollar business you realize like well that didn't do it i know and and you got two beautiful kids and you got a life and it's like well how come i'm what it what what now yeah to have to rejigger your to make that obviously it's important and

it's a great thing but to still have that weird kind of like what now what next i did it all what next do you know how to have fun yeah outside of baking yeah no in the moment i'm having fun but then i have this anxiety and and it is and it's this feeling of like well this is a this is a moment where i've got my health i've got this great family everything's going well right so i shouldn't have to rely on like whatever to be happy i should i should just be happy with what i've got because you know oh so part of that part of that i think is like uh gratitude yeah it's gratitude and also part of it's being like i think surrounded by the industry by the hollywood industry constantly in los angeles is like it's a it's it's i love la for

a variety of reasons but i think that is something that can be well it's a very um insulated and bizarre world exactly and you know the difference between public persona and personal lives like i know there's a lot of like just people doing their jobs out there but there's also a lot of weirdness yeah in terms of priorities and quality of life and so public like when you do a movie that doesn't do well it's really public or i mean in this case i did a movie that did well that's public but right it's and it's but also there's the secret knowledge of you know what people's real lives are like yeah i mean you're on the inside yeah and there's that weird balance between public information and personality There's the secret knowledge of what people's real lives are like. I mean, you're on the inside.

And there's that weird balance between public information and personality and failures and just the lives people are living. There's almost this weird oath of secrecy. Just by virtue of the fact that you're on the inside and doing well in show business, you have to be diplomatic about, right? About how you feel. but how you feel about how you feel yeah and you know and what about that guy's not doing well should we be concerned don't worry there are people handling that but i have to do a thing it's not your problem okay okay it's totally also like the like you know i've never had a career high like neighbors right the weekend after it opened i got i got a horrible cold horrible i get it yeah one of those colds and i was in a really bad mood and i was like what was wrong with me right what's wrong with me

i have a cold yeah it's gonna bum me out yeah yeah yeah and i was like i'm glad i'm in therapy but this cold is bumming me out i think it's similar like my brother's in dc and that's a also a company town and it's like everything's about politics and it's and it's think it's similar like my brother's in dc and that's a sim also a company town and it's like everything's about politics and it's and it's not it's not reality but it's a similar social dynamic yeah like there are things you can say and can't say and you know there are things sort of like well somebody you know get him some coffee and we'll try to make this right yeah you know right it's really it's exactly the same because it's also a star culture there the stars are politicians right it's a very similar like very similar thing all his it's exactly the same because it's also a star culture there. The stars are politicians. Right. It's a very similar, like, very similar thing.

All his stories are exactly the same as mine. And all the insecurities are the same. Well, there's that old saying that politics is show business for ugly people. Right? Right. Something like that. Except I'm in comedy, so it's the same. Politics and comedy are, there's not a lot of attractive people in comedy.

Well, there are. There are a few. Yeah, they're charming they're charming and cute yeah yeah usually well it was great talking to you yes do we cover it all i think so you think your dad's gonna be okay with this i think he's gonna be fine he's gonna be he's gonna love it one more chance to throw him under the bus no great guy all right Okay, that's it. He's a good guy. Artisanal bread.

Harvard's fine. He's a nice guy. I'm glad he stopped by. Go to WTFpod.com for all your WTFpod needs. Check out the schedule. Check out where I'm going to be. Got a few things coming up. Oh my god.

I got to start making television again. Got to start making television again. Writing television. Got to finish a new hour. Tighten that thing up. I'm going to tighten it up, man. I don't know where Def Blackcat is. I'm not going to freak out, though.

I think someone else is just feeding him. I drank that smoothie too fast. Boomer lives! Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means.

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