WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 537 - Rivers Cuomo

Episode Date: September 28, 2014

Weezer frontman Rivers Cuomo is the subject of much rock and roll lore, and Marc wants to get it all on the table. Why did Rivers decide to go to Harvard just as Weezer was taking off? What was he really doing when he dropped off the grid after the failure of Pinkerton? And did he really become celibate? Rivers gives the answers and tells Marc how he feels about the many myths that surround him. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton. The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5 p.m. in Rock City at torontorock.com. Calgary is an opportunity-rich city home to innovators, dreamers, disruptors, and problem solvers. The city's visionaries are turning heads around the globe across all sectors each and every day.

They embody Calgary's DNA. A city that's innovative, inclusive, and creative. And they're helping put Calgary and our innovation ecosystem on the map as a place where people come to solve some of the world's greatest challenges. Calgary's on the right path forward. Take a closer look at CalgaryEconomicDevelopment.com. Lock the gate! All right, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fucking ears? What the fuck sticks? What the fuckstables? What the fuckadelics? What the fuckaholics? I am Mark Maron. This is WTF. Welcome. Welcome to the show. I am here. I'm a different person now. I am a 51-year-. I'm a 51 year old man. My birthday was on

Saturday and, you know, I'm feeling it. I don't like to admit that I'm feeling it, but I am feeling it a little bit. I don't know how I'm feeling it exactly, but I do know that almost immediately I was at LA Podfest and some pictures were taken with me and I was at L.A. PodFest and some pictures were taken with me. And I was looking at the pictures differently. I was seeing not a bad looking and not an unfit man, but a middle aged man, a 51 year old man. Something just gave way. And I always knew this would happen. It is a matter of perception, but I have to be honest with myself. You know, there is that moment in a president's career, especially a younger president,

and look, I'm not comparing myself to the president. I do not have that kind of responsibility. I do have a garage to manage, and I do have some things to clean up, but I'm by no means comparing my job or task in any way to the president. Quite honestly, comparing my job or task in any way to the president. Quite honestly, I think I'm doing a more honest job in terms of occupation. But there's that weird moment where you compare pictures to first term and second term presidents and you're like, holy shit, what happened to that guy? And it's really just aging, but it's something you don't notice until you notice it all at once. And it happened. I noticed it all at once. And it happened. I noticed it all at once.

I looked at a picture that somebody took of myself and Amber Preston, who was on the live podcast last night. And I was like, oh, my God, look at my little middle-aged head. I don't know. I don't know what's happening, but I'm going to have to accept it, aren't I? There's no reason to be one of those people. I cannot fight the tide of age. I will not dye my hair. And anybody who thinks that I do already, you can go fuck yourself.

I have gray temples. The top is just naturally the way it is. I'm not dyeing anything, all right? I do know this. I do know that Rivers Cuomo is on the show. I do know that Weezer's new album, Everything Will Be All Right in the End, is coming out tomorrow. That's September 30th. It's sort of a return to form for Weezer.

And when I talk to people about interviewing Rivers, they're like, oh, you know, that's not going to be easy. It's interesting how people are publicly framed as being something. how people are publicly framed as being something. You know, I did a lot of reading on him because, you know, I like Weezer, but I had to go back and sort of go through the catalog a bit and get a sense of who he is and, you know, his eccentricity. But the interesting thing is, you know, you get down to just talking to a guy for an hour and you get sort of an idea of who he is, it doesn't really match uh the reputation or the myth uh you know he's just a a bit of a eccentric guy who uh he he's he's very focused and he's uh holding it together man also i want to mention

this and this seems it might seem a little out of character for me, but I don't think so. Melissa Etheridge's new album, This Is Me, M.E., comes out tomorrow, and you can get it wherever you get music. Now, here's the reason I'm telling you this. Melissa, stop by the garage here. We had a great conversation. I'm going to put it up soon

so you can look forward to that, but you can get the record, This Is M.E., in the meantime. And I tell you, man, I listen to this record and she's fucking going for it. She is rocking out at 52 or 53 or however old she is. We talked about it. I'm not saying something out of school here. Because that was one of those situations where I get an opportunity to interview somebody.

And it seems like, wow, I never even thought about that. But why the fuck wouldn't I want to talk to Melissa Atherthridge we had a great conversation and that's coming up so look forward to that will you so here's what's going on uh last night at la pod fest we did a live podcast i also appeared on aisha tyler's podcast on friday it was a great turnout uh thanks for coming out if you were in the audience i did did a panel of who was on my panel. I'm obviously not going to post this for a bit, but it was sort of an interesting event because my niece is in town. My 15 year old niece has been here before. I've talked about her before.

I find it's a it's a it's a real privilege for me to be to have the opportunity to be the cool uncle. Now, I don't really know how to be around teenagers, but, you know, I'm better at it than I thought. And what I have found, given that I only have to be a cool uncle and, you know, I don't have to be parent, is that she's here for three days. And whatever insecurities I may have about being around or knowing what to do with a 15-year-old are placated very easily by just buying her whatever she wants. And then being able to say, like, wow, I can't believe your dad didn't buy that. Or, oh, that's, you know, no one was going to get that for you. Sure, I'll get it for you. It is a win-win situation.

But there are educational moments that can be a bit disconcerting. So Eden and I, we went to LA Podfest. And I, you know, someone's going to listen to this and I'm going to be, look, this is the life I live, all right? We went to L.A. Podfest and I, you know, someone's going to listen to this and I'm going to be looking. This is this is the life I live. All right. And it's an assumption that that kids today, they have they're getting a lot more input. They know more things or they certainly seen more things than than I did when I was 15. I had to really look for it. We didn't have the Internet and we didn't have access to to wrong. That's one thing you get as a kid now is you have uh full access full open access to the world of wrong and you know i'm

wrong i know it's a moral judgment but you know what i'm talking about some things you don't need to see until you're you're 18 or 20 or maybe even fucking 50 to be honest with you. So we walk into Podfest and there's a lot of podcasts going on and someone comes running up to me, a large guy with a beard who apparently works for Eddie If's podcast. I don't remember what that's called, but I literally had just walked in with my 15-year-old niece who, mind you, know looks 15 so this guy look i'm not gonna fault him it was an awkward moment i'm not even that upset about it but he comes running up he's like hey hey man you want you want to come on the show and i'm like what do you mean like we're doing a show right now and i'm like i i gotta go you know prepare and you know i'm gonna

be on aisha show you gotta come in there man there's a there's a tranny in there and uh and he's got his dick out and my 15 year old niece is sitting right there and i'm like i i don't know i i think i don't need to no you got to see it you got you got to see it you don't want to see tranny dick and i'm like you know this is my niece uh she's 15 now there was a couple of problems what was going on one i was put in this awkward position now i, I'm not assuming that my 15-year-old niece didn't know what he was talking about, but also there was a correction to be made. And I said, he walked away and I'm like, please, can we not? No, we don't want to see a transgender's dick. See, I had to correct. See, I had to correct. Because, you know,

after the moment had passed and it could not be erased or put back in whatever dark jar it came from, which was this large man with a beard, I had to clarify that tranny was not an appropriate term for a transgender person. So we passed on that. And then we went and I did Aisha's Tyler show and I introduced her to some of the podcast community. And then, you know, as we were walking out, my friend Sam Tripoli is running around. Sam Tripoli is a comic. And he's just walking through the hall going, did anyone see where the girl with the black dildo went? Did anyone see where the girl with the black dildo went? Literally two or three times.

And I had to look at Eden and I'm like, I didn't see anybody. Did you? No. Okay. Let's go get some ice cream or something. Do you want to? So that was an interesting non-parenting moment for me. I guess that is the tricky thing about being a parent in a broader sense is that they're out in the world.

Stuff is going to be dumped into their head, you know, one way or the other. You know, the input is out there. They're going to be walking through this world of all information all the time. And you just got to, you know, I honestly think that at certain ages they can't absorb anything. But man, I think I was a little violated by uh by what happened to be honest with you and i'm a grown man and i i've experienced a lot of things but it was a it was an exciting situation i think it's behind us and uh and i think we did the right

thing all in all by just you know minding our own business and uh enjoying our night and not talking about it again. And in an amazing display of friendship and camaraderie, Dave Anthony, who appears on the show, and is also a writer and someone I've known for a good 20 years, in front of an audience of about 250, 300 people, as I began the live WTF, came out with a box of cupcakes, and there were candles in them, and it was very sweet.

And it was very hard for me to actually be a dick, which is what Dave and I do to each other. And I was a dick initially, and then I backed off it and thanked him, honestly. And then a room full of podcast fans in a live situation saying happy birthday and uh it was it was beautiful and i um you know i i made the wish i always make uh when i blow out the candles i hope and wish someday I can just accept love in general and appreciate it. And I do. And I am conscious of it. And I'm not going to be ungracious. I'm not just going to blow through it.

When it comes at me, I'm going to feel it and not freak out. That that's my dream that's my wish that's my hope but i had a very nice birthday okay so strap in uh we're going to now uh have a conversation with with the elusive and uh intense rivers cuomo from weezer enjoy their new record. And I'll talk to you on the other side. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company

markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton. The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley

Construction. Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5 p.m. in Rock City at torontorock.com. Are you a musician too? I play. I don't call myself a musician too? I play. You know, I don't call myself a musician. All these guitars are yours though? Yes. Yeah, I just bought that one.

I bought that Gibson there. You play strats, right? In the studio, I play Gibson. Oh, really? I usually play Rico Kassick's Gibson Junior Les Paul, I think. Les Paul Junior with the one pickup? Yeah. I love those things.

Yeah. Oh, so you get that dirty sound. Yeah, that's the Weezer sound. Yeah, it is. That's where it comes from. That makes sense, man. Yeah, it's his guitar. Oh, wow.

But it's not quite reliable enough on stage, so I have a Strat replica thing that we made. Oh, yeah? It's not quite reliable enough on stage, so I have like a Strat replica thing that we made. Oh, yeah? It's very durable. So how are you feeling in general? A little car sick. Where'd you come from? Do you live here? Where do you live? Santa Monica, which feels like a world away. It is. If I have to go to the west side, I feel like I have to pack a tent and a lunch.

It's like the worst thing that could happen is i have to go to santa monica how long have you been living down there i first moved there in 91 and uh then weezer uh weezer formed into bna 92 and we all lived there and um i was going to smc yeah monica city college when you when you moved out here but you went so you moved out here from the East Coast, right? I moved out in 89 and I went straight to Hollywood. Yeah, why not? Why not go throw yourself into it and get beat up?

What happened that year? That was amazing. The Sunset Strip was still rocking. 89, oh right, so the hair metal was just sort of dying. It was well transition period well it was in full effect when i arrived and then it lasted about another year yeah and uh i got a job at tower records there and they um the other employees there turned me on to pixies and sonic youth and 60s records velvet underground beach boys. That was the first you'd heard of them? Really? Oh, yeah.

I was just a metal shredder guy in the 80s. Oh, really? Yeah. So you grew up just like wailing. Yeah. And no one had ever introduced you to the world of sort of like thoughtful, arty kind of... Songs.

Yeah. It was all about guitar solos. Right. Yngwie Malmsteen. Can you do that? I could. Yeah. Yeah? I was in an Yngwie Malmsteen. Can you do that? I could, yeah. Yeah? I was in an Yngwie cover band. Seriously? Yeah.

So you were that proficient a noodler? Well, yeah. Like maybe a B-plus noodler. Did you have long hair? Yeah. So you did the whole thing? I did the whole thing and moved out here with my band from Connecticut. To be hard rockers, to be metal dudes. Yeah, and it didn't work.

Who were the ones that made the most impact on you immediately? I'm a big Velvet Underground fan myself. Yeah, Velvet Underground and the Pixies and the Beach Boys. The Beach Boys. Yeah, started listening to them in 91 and got Weezer together and started singing and writing lyrics as opposed to just playing solos. You never had done that? You never really sung before?

I had when I had to, but I didn't think of myself as a lead singer because I didn't quite have that Jeff Tate or Rob Halford high octave. Whoops, that's my phone. That's a good phone. That's a good phone sound. When you listen to the Beach Boys, though, it's weird with the Beach Boys. Melodically and the layers of sound are amazing,

but I find that there's a sadness in his singing that I cannot really tolerate for very long. Oh, interesting. Have you ever felt that? It's like there's a heavy heartedness under there that I just can't handle. There's a vulnerability that just kills me. Wow. Yeah, I mean, I definitely hear it, but it didn't...

It wasn't just detracting. No, I mean, that was why I was attracted to it. I've heard of people that don't even hear it and don't get anything out of it, but you're the first person who's told me he feels it and he recognizes it, and it's too much. It's a little much, man. I've only had that happen with a few artists. Daniel Johnson is another one on his stuff and like some of the later Fiona Apple

things where it's just sort of like oh I don't know how to help her. You feel it but it doesn't it doesn't hurt you necessarily. Yeah. I don't know why it is. So when you first started doing the the Weezer stuff what were your I mean feel it but it doesn't it doesn't hurt you necessarily yeah i don't know why it is so when you first started doing the the weezer stuff what were your i mean before you did the blue album what were you guys really working on those songs or how did you find your way if i can be vague uh well we started out basically just trying to run in the opposite direction of heavy metal i think we this is before nevermind came out but even so we were i guess kind of like a jane's addiction um grungy kind of a little bit more bluesy than you

think of weezer sounding and i think i was trying to sing with a more gravelly voice which i'm i don't have yeah yeah did you go i see that any of those jane shows when they were you know at the beginning um i don't know about the beginning but in in 1990 91 i was i went to a couple shows yeah it was pretty amazing oh yeah it was so great to be a fan of them because it always felt like the shows were like this really cool event like i remember um this one one show they had you drive to a big parking lot where there were a bunch of yellow school buses, and everyone gets on the buses. Yeah. And they drove us up to the top of a mountain.

Really? Yeah. And they had, like, games and a stage, and they played their show, and they were just kind of hanging out. And it seemed like Perry Farrell was just so great at hosting a party and making an event more than just a show. Right. Well, he went out of his an event more than just a show. Right. Well, he went out of his way. He got you all buses. Yeah.

And then they did Lollapalooza, too, and that was just kind of developed that vibe. And I think I've always used him and James as a role model for how to make shows feel like something special. Well, there's an intimacy to it, and there seems to be a respect for your fans because when you're unique like you guys are and like they certainly were, the fans are sort of a special bunch. You've got to treat them like a community on some level. So that's where you got the inspiration

because you do a lot of sort of hands-on fan engagement. Yeah, we did the Hootenanny where we went on tour, and instead of bringing our instruments, we had 100 fans bring their instruments and whatever it was, mariachi instruments or orchestral. How did that work? Well, it was really scary. We didn't know what to expect and every night was totally different. An army of people with instruments? Yeah. How did you arrange it? What was the plan? I think we settled on

I can't remember, five to eight songs and gave them advance warning. These are the songs. Make sure you learn them, rehearse them, come prepared. And they all took it seriously. And we set it up as half show, half recording session, so there'd be several chances to get the song right. If we didn't get it right, we'd do it again. We'd move people around, get the mix right.

Right. They must have been thrilled. Yeah, and it came out really great, and it was really fun for us, too. You grew up on the East Coast, right? Mm-hmm. And you were just, like, obviously a metalhead. Who were your bands then who were you driving

around listening to your sabbath guy nope sabbath was before my time sure but the records were around yeah but they didn't they sounded it sounded old-fashioned to me i was um i think probably the first besides kiss in the 70s was the first band that defined metal as something more than just music. It was a culture and a community to belong to. It was Quiet Riot. Okay. So it was probably 83. Uh-huh.

And then from there it got into Judas Priest and Maiden and then Metallica and Slayer and then the Shredders, Yngwie. Uh-huh. and then the shredders, Yngwie. I actually just made a long set of playlists in Spotify, what Rivers listened to in, and then the year. Oh, really? Yeah. Starting from 1980, I think. And so I just filled them up with whatever I was listening to in that year. And you can remember? Yeah. Because I associate a record with a particular place. I remember I was in the cafeteria at school when I first heard that. That's Master of Puppets or something. Oh, really?

I was a sophomore, that sort of thing. Sitting with a bunch of other metal dudes? Yeah. And somebody had a boombox? Exactly. They had a boombox and they put Master of Puppets on and there was that nice quiet intro and then it breaks into battery and I thought something had gone wrong with the guy's boombox because it was suddenly so fast.

Yeah. Yeah. And then there's that moment where you realize that your life is different. Yeah. There's nothing wrong with his boombox. My life just changed forever here in the cafeteria.

Music does that, man. Yeah. Your record, your first record was a big record where people were like what because i was in high school man when uh the car's first record came out so like when i knew that okasik was doing your record when i heard that and then you can hear the sound i mean you can hear his place in it yeah like he's he definitely helped you guide that sound right yeah i mean to a certain extent we were already like a cut from the same cloth to a certain extent we're we're we're a cars of of our generation but he definitely um has his aesthetic that that is part of what we do in the studio it was it what he he sort of invented a pop aesthetic. I mean, for his time.

In a lot of ways, it's what he takes away from what we would do rather than what he's adding. I'll give you an example. On the record we were just making with him, Everything Will Be Alright In The End. I listened to it. It's great.

It's like you're back to your old stuff. Thanks. Do you feel that? Yeah. I mean, I think it's half going back to classic Weezer values, and then also half trying things we've never tried before, but things only we would try. Oh, yeah?

Good. I want you to tell me which ones you think that is. But tell me about Rick, how he takes away. Like, from my heavy metal roots, I have this instinct to start adding guitar harmonies. The third? Yeah, like Iron Maiden or Judas Priest. And I'm always timid about doing it because, again, Weezer was a turn away from that.

So on this record, when I would try, I'd start to add some of that. And in some cases, he'd say, no, man, that sounds like Boston. That sounds like boston that sounds like sticks nothing against those bands but it's just it's funny to hear his point of reference for what is overcooked well the funny thing is the reason that they're his point of reference is those are the bands he helped bury that you know at the time like when when you guys came out what was happening in music and what you guys were up against was the death of hair metal and the evolution into this next thing. Then he was really up against Boston

and Journey and Styx. So of course that's his point of reference. That's hilarious. Boston. They had a clean sound. Yeah. I mean, that was some produced shit. So in working with him this time,

coming full circle in a way, and is everything going to be okay in the end rivers i mean because like i don't like i haven't followed you as intensely as obviously some other fans and i know that you've had your own struggles and you're you're notoriously um uh infamous in a way not necessarily in a a bad way, but there's a mythology around you. Have you landed into something more grounded for yourself? Oh, definitely. But I would hope that people take that title as more of a question. Oh, good. Okay. Than an assertion, yeah. You should put a question mark.

You should put a question mark. Well, yeah, I like the ambiguity. And some people will be sure it's one way, and some people will be sure it's another, and that's fine. Do you live with that ambiguity every day? Yeah, of course. It's the big struggle, right? What's today going to be?

It makes it all interesting. Yeah. Whose choice was it to work with Rick again? Well, I think almost all the choices are our choices. We have total control. So it wasn't the obvious choice when we started thinking about it. But when we realized the kind of sound we were going for and just that live four guys in a room rocking, not too many computer tricks,

basically how our first album sounded. Who on earth could get that sound better than Rick? Right. And he got it. It definitely sounds that way. The Back to the Shack song, in your mind, looking at this song list, in your mind, as the guy that made

these songs what what do you think the songs that are that are gonna pop what what are you hoping for the single to be the single is back to the shack it is so i yeah i got it yeah okay so that that's the one that stuck but there it seemed like to me that there was also some nostalgia and some personal history involved in in the lyrics of that song. Yeah, definitely lyrically. For me, it's like wanting to go back to be with our, you know, the real Weezer hardcore community again. And over the years, it's easy for an artist to get cut off

from the core people that were there at the beginning. And playing in the clubs every week, we were able to get that instant feedback from our small audience and figure out where we were going, what we wanted to do. And it was kind of a collaborative process. With the fans. Yeah. I don't know if they called them fans back then. They were more like the audience in the club. So you guys, when you started playing small clubs and you were, you know, your particular charisma is very unique.

That I imagine that like it was sort of like it started with a few kind of nerdy people that knew that something was happening. And then it kind of slowly spread out. Yeah. And well, we played a lot with other bands around town, so a lot of times we're playing for their fans. So, but all together, you know, in that community in L.A. with the other bands and all the people who are going to shows, we figured out where we fit in and how we're going to be different and what we want to say.

And we couldn't have done that without that that weekly interaction with the audience yeah and so back to the shack is saying uh we want to get back to that and and uh we've made a real point over the last four years to spend a lot of time with the with people after the shows and see what what's going on in their lives and see what they're thinking of of what we're doing and oh yeah yeah what do you like how do you do that you just have a line or you just you know no um usually um online they organize themselves and say all right we like these five people 10 20 people are going to go back tonight and oh so they come backstage there's a it's done through the boards through the yeah that kind of thing facebook right and uh and do you find you've had fans that have been there the whole time and that have some

grievances sometimes um usually when you talk to people face to face and this was what we really discovered on the weezer cruises yeah that we did when you talk to people face to face the the overriding feeling you get from them is that they love us. Yeah. And they're super passionate about us and they want us to win and they have the best of intentions. So that's different from what you might see online where sometimes it comes out, you know, in text it can come off as pretty negative. Yeah, yeah. It's hard to interpret.

You guys fucking suck as love. Yeah. Even though that guy, honestly, might love you. You might have just wronged him somehow that you have no control over. And they're usually the first guys that come up to you and go like, sorry, man. It's just like, I was mad. I didn't mean it. But we've spent a lot of time listening and talking with them and

it feels like we're back in the shack now yeah how do you feel how do you receive that love you all right with it I mean absolutely it's I mean that's what I want most as an artist is is to be understood and to be appreciated for for who we are and it's the greatest thing when it's it's we got these core people around us that feel that way well how have you like you know in in relation to setting the record straighter or about like things that come at you i mean oh in now that it's been like what 96 2006 20 years since pinkerton have you know are you happier now with the way it's fallen into place as an album as opposed to when it happened? Yeah, I was devastated when it came out.

And it's such a personal album. And I put everything I had into it. And it was really rejected. And I felt humiliated. And I felt guilty because I kind of took my band down this road that wasn't really in anyone's interest, it seemed, at the time. But over the years, it's clear that it's really accumulated this passionate base of fans

that maybe any other kind of record couldn't have for us. Well, they got it. Well, I mean, because you're a deep dude, and your struggles around just being in the world and and and your feelings uh you're a unique individual so to most normal people or people who are just sort of like there's only some weezer songs you know there's that moment where like that feeling i got you know where i get get with Brian Wilson. Yeah. That like either people are going to like sort of like get,

allow that into their hearts or sort of like, oh, too much him. Yeah. Yeah. Because I, you know, I listened to it again recently to, you know, to talk to you and it was, I think the reaction was so, you know, directly proportionate just to comparing it to the other record. It wasn't looking at that record on its own

because if you look at it now with distance and not with expectation, it makes complete sense. Uh-huh, yeah, totally. It's just like culturally, they're like, this isn't like the other one. Yeah. And they just fucking turn on the guy.

Yep, can't blame them. No, yes, you can blame them. You can't. But that sort of sent you in a guy yep can't blame them no yes you can blame them but that sort of sent you in a spiral didn't it for like years yeah uh it took five years before i had the confidence to put out another record but like is it's my understanding that you kind of you know did you find yourself like what what was going on in those five years? I mean, were you depressed? Were you freaking out? Were you angry? Did you? Well, in retrospect, it's hard to appreciate it, but it really seemed like we were done.

Like, there was no hope. We were, you know, a one-hit wonder. And so. You felt that? Yeah. I mean, there was, it wasn't until about 99 or 2000 that we started to hear like wait a minute actually there are some people out there who like pinkerton uh there are some people who still want to see you guys live and we started playing again in 2000 with the warp tour

yeah um but until that point it was just living in an apartment in West LA. You guys were the fucking band, and you're like, we're done. Yeah. Just, well, it started out innocently enough, like, all right, beginning in 98, let's get together in LA. We'll start working on the next record. I got some songs.

And then after a month or two rehearsals, it's like, all right, guys, I think this might take some time, so why don't you go take a break, do whatever you want to do. I'm just going to hole up in this rehearsal room here and write a few more songs. And then the months go by, and the years go by, and before you know it, it's 2000. How many songs did you have? I don't know.

Like hundreds? Not enough good ones. Really? Yeah. Well, didn't you go on some sort of almost manic systemizing of how to do that? When did that happen? You know, in those years, I started taking careful notes on what I was doing and trying to figure out what was working and what wasn't working and hoping that I could figure out what kind of processes would yield better results. In just almost a mathematical way.

Well, I mean, there wasn't literally algebra or addition or division or anything like that going on. Well, what was the system? Well, I never settled on anything because it was like a moving target i couldn't figure out it's questions like should i start with a concept should i start with a chord progression and you know there's so many different variables and i would just shift them around and then subdivide and come up with even more variables and yeah you can drive yourself nuts that way well did you find that you were you were like ocd-ing out or did you find that the the actual the process of it was was something you were maybe doing to to sort of comfort

yourself or feel better or to occupy yourself did it become like this weird you know you'd have people over to your apartment and you'd have stuff on the walls you'd be like i'm almost there man i got i mean how how far into it did you get? I got real far. And I became pretty solitary, too. Right. But I did come up with quite a few notebooks full of notes and diagrams and charts. So you kind of had a little bit of a break, like almost, like a manic break almost. Well, I mean, it's hard to generalize what like sum up what i what i was feeling during those years but uh it wasn't all bad i mean to to a

certain extent i like thinking that way and working that way and doing research and and in a way it's all kind of removed from uh anything practical or careerminded. It's just pure musical research, which I enjoy. Yeah. Didn't you go back to school as well? I went back to school four times after the first album came out and finally graduated in 2006. During those so-called dark years, though, I was not in school. Oh, really?

But before and after you were in school? Yeah. So after the first Weezer album comes out, you go back to college? Yeah. Where'd you go? Harvard. That's good. Yeah, it was amazing.

You did all right in high school then, I guess. No, I did badly in high school. How'd you get into Harvard? Well, from there, like I said before i went to santa monica city college and did really well there yeah and i got a year and a half of credit there and then weezer was on tour for supporting the the first album and i was i got so bored it's just you know every it was like the groundhog day thing on tour after a year and a half and we toured through Boston and I went up

to Harvard and walked around. I was like, man, I'd just love to just take a break and read and study and, you know, meet people and have relationships. And so I filled out the application and put more emphasis on my community college transcript than my high school transcript, and they let me in. Did they know who you were? Yeah. I mean, that was part of my admissions essay, was talking about my experiences with the band. So literally, you were like, that you had written...

So I imagine, judging by the sort of reaction to the rejection of Pinkerton and the sort of like... This is before Pinkerton oh right but the but the well I'm just in in trying to figure out how your your mind works that that the the repetition of the songs after a certain point on tour let alone this sort of like you know the disassociation from reality and yeah the Groundhog Day. I imagine just your brain kind of going soft with singing that album every day for a year just probably was like, I gotta put new things in.

Mm-hmm, yeah. Just felt like my life was slipping by and I wasn't doing anything to reach my potential. Was that put in you as a kid at all? I mean, or was that something you wired in? Did you feel like when you were younger, there was a pressure on you, like you weren't doing enough?

No, if anything, it's the opposite. I feel like there wasn't enough pressure, there weren't enough opportunities, and just kind of left on my own. That's almost worse. Yeah. Because sometimes when I look back at my life, it's like the one thing I lacked was discipline.

Why didn't somebody make me do something? Exactly. Oh, you grew up with a sort of free kind of like parents who were on their own trips and did their own thing? Very much so. And I'm sure I got a lot of advantages because of that. Creativity, I bet you got. Maybe that's, yeah, maybe that was one of the results.

But I do, it was especially in my mid-20s, creativity i bet you got maybe that's yeah maybe that was one of the results but i i do it was especially in my mid-20s i was i often felt like man why didn't somebody force me to learn the piano or why didn't somebody put me in a strict school or right i could have become something great that's that's interesting because i i feel that myself that there you know there is that like because there's, what happens if you don't have a healthy sense of competition or achievement or somebody doesn't force you to do things, you know, in your best interest, but you don't know at the time. Everything has, everything becomes very important for me. Like, you know, like there's no, like everything's life or death. There's no sort of like, I guess that one didn't go well.

It's like, no. There's no sort of like, I guess that one didn't go well. It's like, no. Whereas I think that if someone just made you play soccer, you know, that, you know, you have a sense of like losing. It's OK, man. You go back to, you know, go back tomorrow. Like any time there was a rejection or a failure, it was just a personal attack on my personality identity. Like I couldn't figure out why everything was so fucking heavy to me.

And I eventually tied it in with that idea that if somebody had given me some context, you know, it just, you know, disciplined me a little bit and said, you have to do this. And it's like, no, fuck you. And they're like, no, you're going to do this. And then you sort of get through it and you take the weird hurt of learning a new thing, but you learn how to sort of take those chances without them being so threatening. Because when you've got to do it all on your own, just to get to the point where you're going to do it, it's like, oh, God, okay. What did you study in Harvard? I started out as a music major, and then I switched to English literature. Who was your guys?

Who did you like reading? To this day, my favorite is Shakespeare. Oh, really? Yeah. You got big brain, boy. Well, no, I mean, not big enough for Shakespeare, but the small percentage of his writing that I can appreciate is just unbelievable to me. It's pretty amazing it all came out of one guy.

Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, every six weeks weeks or so i'll do these nerd nights where i invite people on twitter 20 30 people to come join me and i get them all tickets and we go see shakespeare together do you are you able to sort of keep it together with the narratives of those plays because like i i can read it a bit i never really locked in because I have a hard time reading plays. But when I see them, I have a very hard time following things.

Do you? Well, I studied a lot in school. I've written essays on a lot of the plays. So you know the arcs and the nuances. Yeah. And I just get the DVDs. I go see them live. I read them.

And there's only 10 or 15 that you see with any regularity. So you just watch those same ones over and over again. Yeah, yeah. You start to understand a little bit of it. How did that, did it do anything for your writing style? Do you think it influenced the depth or the style of the way you approach songs? Is that possible?

It doesn't seem possible. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, what I get from it more than anything else is the depth of emotion you can get just from words. Right. Boy, it sets the bar so high, and it inspires me. Yeah. So you just kept going back to get that English major? Yeah. Yeah. So you just kept going back to get that English major? Yeah.

And I know that you had a unique upbringing. I didn't do a ton of research, but can we talk about it a little bit? Sure. You were in Connecticut, right? Yeah. Born in New York. My parents were part of a Zen center, I think the first Zen center in the States in Rochester. Yeah. And they split up when I was about four and my mom took me to the Satchitananda Ashram in Connecticut.

Yeah. Under the guru Swami Satchitananda, who was the guy who gave the opening speech at Woodstock. Really? So I grew up on his ashram in Connecticut. But is that like, so he was around? Yeah. He had several ashrams around the world.

Yeah. So he'd kind of go between them, but he was around a lot. And was it like everyone ate together? Everybody, was it, it was post-60s, right, really? Yeah, this is 70s. Right. So, and people just lived on the property all year round? There are a lot of people who lived on the property and then a lot of people in the

community around the property. And then also people would come from all over the world to see Satyajit Ananda and to see the ashram. Did you feel like when you, so how old were you? Like, you were young, you were like five and six? Yeah, four to 11. So, you were in it? Yeah. And you, did you have reverence for that guy? Yeah, definitely. I mean, it's hard to know how much understanding of, you know, a little kid can have or faith a little kid can have. But, you know, I believed as much as a kid can believe for sure. But it's rare, though, as a kid, and it's unique as a kid to, you know,

Jesus is one thing because, you know, he lives in the sky. But, like, to actually have the guy, you know, there. Yeah. Well, he wasn't, no one said he was a god on earth. It was more about the practices, and we did meditation in school every day and yoga and karma yoga which was basically chores or service sure feeding ponies and getting selfless yeah working for other people so it was more about those kinds of things rather than worshiping a person right

but there must have been that sense of reverence around there was a sense of like this guy's pretty special did you uh did you do you continue do are you a spiritual person well i i definitely still meditate and every year i i go for 30 days uh to a meditation center and um you know all day long just meditate in silence how do you do it did you learn how to do it when you were a kid? Because I've been told I need to meditate, and I get antsy. Yeah, I get antsy too. Yeah. After all this time, it's not easy.

But that's where I get the benefit from trying to work with that antsiness. Yeah, what are some of, how do you do it? Well, I do a technique called Vipassana since 2003. And it's basically just observing the sensations on my body in as much detail as possible and without judging them or reacting to them. Like, okay, my finger hurts. Yeah. It's going away. Yeah.

Not that you need to do a dialogue about it, but just really put all your attention on exactly what you're feeling. Yeah, and what does that do? Well, it does quite a lot. Yeah? Maybe more than anything else. It gives me just a little bit of separation between what's coming at me and then how I respond. So hopefully I'm responding a little more wisely now than before when i would often shoot myself in the foot yeah so you're volatile uh uh angry i've made a lot of big

stupid mistakes let's let's uh let's let's make them right what was your biggest mistake in your mind what was my biggest mistake well i don't i don't know if i want to uh expose that in public oh so it wasn't a public mistake um like do you have like because there is a an element of the human mind i guess that you know you don't you don't really want to have regrets you know and And depending on how hard you are on yourself or what you think your transgression was, that's a life's work in and of itself, is to not to have those regrets. Yeah.

I don't know if it's so much about single big mistakes. It's more like just daily little decisions. They all add up. daily little decisions, you know, they all add up. So I hope now that I can react with a little more calmness and wisdom and not react out of anger or defensiveness or greed. Right. Were you a scary guy at one time? I've gone through so many different phases and people who had known me for a long time I think would agree. There's times where you couldn't maybe not be able to associate one version of me with the version of me from a few years later. And you think that was completely sort of conditional like like relative to circumstance or do you think

it's your do you have uh other issues well i think through it all i've always just been trying to figure out how to make great music and to make better music yeah and it's driven me to do all kinds of crazy things and and at the same time like you said the circumstances around me change and so i have to change. Uh-huh. But you never thought you had like a psychological issue? Not like a clinical issue that required medication. No?

No. Well, that's good. Because that's one way to go. That was not the way you went. You went with meditation, which is better. Well, and for some people, I mean, I'm sure there are more extreme cases where meditation wouldn't be helpful and you need some kind of professional help. But you never felt that? No.

That's good. That's good. That's healthy. Because do you have a fear of that, of looking at it that way? You never once thought, like, well, maybe, you, maybe I'm here in my apartment with a lot of papers and I'm not talking to anybody and I'm not shaving. I don't know.

I think there was always just this, even just a tiny core inside of me that was like, I may appear completely insane to everyone else but i know i'm the sane one yeah sure you know what you know who says that who crazy people you seem okay man you seem pretty good i was nervous i don't know what uh yeah you come with a lot of uh there's a lot of uh a lot of uh things humming around you really yeah huh yeah and like i don't you know because i like your band i've listened to it you know but i know there are people that are like

really you know like that live for it is there some is somebody specific tell you something or did you read no no but you know yeah it's like um because i knew the big press when i think that like initially like right out of the gate when the first weezer comes out you you were like a i'm i and uh you're not a virgin maybe or not having sex right that was uh no um wasn't it something am i well that's true but not by choice um i wasn't a virgin but um let's see i think when i started meditating 2003 through 2006 that's when i was celibate oh way up yeah because i just remember there was this like you know how how pop culture things i didn't you know i wasn't on the pulse of things but there was this idea that you were like abstinent and you know you were saving

up your energy to do other things and like and i thought that was very deliberate and it was ascetic you know asceticism in a certain way and that you had this methodology to but it seems like there were a lot of methods going on that you were trying to to feel better and comfortable and do the best creative work you can do yeah um and i had experimented with celibacy earlier for the reasons you just mentioned. Kind of like you want to save, I don't know. Chi. Yeah, something like that.

Save your chi. But the three-year celibacy thing was totally different. That was rare. But initially, there was a word out was that you were doing that. You were saving your... That would have been more in those dark years. Okay. When the Blue Elm came out, I think I just... I wasn't celibate.

Right. What do you think it is about the Eastern aesthetic that you find compelling? Because I don't know much about it, but there is this sort of sense of minimalism and order, and there's an insane work ethic. Yeah, Japan has been fascinating to me for a long time. I think everything you just mentioned has been intriguing to me, but also the sense that they have greater control over their minds and bodies. And just maybe growing up in the West, I felt like we were a little out of control. So I was intrigued by Japanese. But it's also interesting because of just what I'm talking to you for a few minutes,

that they're very hard on themselves. They expect a lot of themselves and and you know that there's a tremendous shame around not doing all you can do in the best job possible and there's a a shame around dropping the ball so to speak yeah and you know and i and i i think like because like in that culture, like, you know, shame, the rituals around shame can, you know, be death, you know, self-inflicted death. Uh-huh. And that's pretty heavy, man. It's a heavy work ethic. Yeah.

I think a very relatively high rate of suicide in Japan. Right. And I think that's probably part of it, too, huh? Part of my fascination? Yeah. I can't, I just can't escape the idea of like two things, you know, going back to,

going to Harvard and it being Harvard and you, you know, having a tremendous amount of success already. You're like, no, I'm not, I'm not there. I'm not good enough.

I got to know more. I got to do this. I got to do it at the best school in the world. You know? And then years later, you're like, I got to, I got to crack this pop

song this equation has got to be here that's it to me that i mean it's creative and it's and it's ambitious and and and it's um self uh actualizing but it's also like a lot of a lot to put on yourself to go to harvard and yeah i guess yeah i didn't think of it that way i guess i'm uh pretty driven but as long as i'm not making myself too miserable it's probably not a bad thing but you never were a drug guy huh no that's good yeah that is good because like in in rock and roll i mean you see that shit all the time you don't do anything nope never have just not an Just not an interest? No, I've tried. I went through phases. Yeah.

But since 2003, I've been totally clean and sober. Oh, yeah? Yep. And just on your own? You just made a decision? Yeah, I didn't join a group. And I didn't have any addiction. But that's the time I became celibate too and started meditating.

And it was actually partially inspired by this, my teacher, meditation teacher and these courses. If you want to advance past the introductory 10-day course and you want to get into the very serious courses, you have to leave all that stuff behind. You can't go into a 45-day meditation course just having done a bunch of drugs and slept with a bunch of people because your mind will be going nuts. And it's so hard to make it through one of those courses. You have to be pretty balanced already. Really? No addictions or anything like that, yeah.

Like your mind does go nuts carrying all that stuff you know there's a yeah i mean i deal you know it's like you know when you got that kind of clutter around you know and you realize like just how much you're doing to distract yourself from yourself yeah and and you know who's involved you know you kind of make this list of like oh my god i'm carrying a lot of garbage so you just got all rid of it all of it yeah so you didn't have sex for how long three years must been how was it that first time out brief no it was great it was my wedding night. Really? Yeah. That's fascinating.

Do you think it, did it all pay off for you? I mean, do you think that period, do you think it re-sort of, it re-routed you and it's someplace you can stay now? Do you not feel like you're going to go off reservation again? No, there's no way. No good. Yeah, I'm so much more content and And you have children now too. Yeah, I have two kids and it's a good life and

I can't imagine throwing it away for something so ephemeral as The perfect pop song? Or sex or drugs. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll keep with the maybe, maybe, maybe the perfect pop song or sex or drugs oh yeah yeah yeah we'll keep with the you want maybe maybe maybe the perfect pop song still attainable now are your folks still alive yeah you get along with them yeah did you always well um i've always gotten along great with my mom and my when my parents split up my dad um went eventually he was born again and joined the army and was stationed

stationed in germany for about 20 years so i didn't see him or talk to him much when i was growing up born again yep christian yep he is uh he's a he's a bishop now in the pentecostal church. Wow. That's crazy to me. Your parents were real searchers. Yeah. That's interesting. Do you know much about where they came from before? Like your grandparents and stuff? Well, my father's parents are from Italy.

Mm-hmm. And they're Roman Catholic. Right. My grandfather was a shoe repair guy in Rochester. God bless him. Yeah. In Rochester, he was a shoe repair guy? Yeah.

It's great. You know what? Shoe repair guys, they're important. And especially at that time, you got to have your shoe repair guy. Yeah. Did you ever go to his shop and stuff? Well, his shop was in the front of the house and um in the house he lived in i lived there some of the time and but i lived close by the

rest of the time so there's that smell of leather and stuff work being done at benches yeah yeah from a very early age i'll i'll never forget that smell and um i actually my name for him was actually doot do and that was because of the sound of his hammer. Oh, really? Yeah. Rhythmic. Yeah. Doot-doo. What did your dad do? Well, the year I was born, actually two months after I was born, he played drums on a jazz record for Wayne Shorter.

Really? From Weather Report? It was before Weather Report, right before Weather Report. In between Bebop and Weather Report. Yeah. Wow. So he's a jazz drummer. Yeah.

And I think sometime after I was born, he gave that up. And I'm not sure what he did. Just maybe different odd jobs, maybe a painter. And he was part of the Zen Center. Right. So there was a time where your parents were divorced yet still in the same Zen Center? No. He took off.

Yeah, they kind of split from each other and the Zen Center at the same Zen Center? No. He took off. Yeah, they kind of split from each other and the Zen Center at the same time, I believe. Were you ever into jazz at all? I was in the high school jazz band as a guitar player. You fucking, you can really shred now. I mean, that's the interesting thing about listening to Weezer is that there is this pop, there's an idea of very definitive modern pop music

and power pop music, but pop chords, and then all of a sudden there's these guitar solos. You're like, what? Where the fuck did that come from? You still do a lot of them, right? Yeah. Yeah, I'm the solo guy. It's astounding, dude.

It's like Brian May. It's like there's just moments where, you know, you have the... And I think that's what makes Weezer great, is you have these, like, huge chords that are just sort of melodic, and they have a pop sensibility, and then there's, like, this guitar that just comes out. It's like, where did that come from? Huh.

It's great. I don't even register it as something all that interesting. It's just... It's the way you play. Yeah. But you're so proficient, and your heart is in the... Your early heart is in this type of music that is not... It's not counterintuitive, because it works fine.

Music is music. But it's definitely from that world, from your world. Because it's sort of interesting how you must have decided the sound of weezer because you said earlier that you know okasik and and you know you guys knew what you were doing you knew you were making a tremendous shift it was very very intentional we were going to restrain ourselves as much as possible and completely shift from an Yngwie type of sound to more like an amateurish thing, like Velvet Underground. You listened to that?

Yeah. And you changed the chords? Just to give you some specifics on guitar, in 1989, I was doing sweep picking and, of course, palm muting and wah-wah bar and fast picking and all of that went out the window for the Blue Album. There's not even a single palm mute. You were conscious of that. You literally had to stop yourself.

Stop your hand. We would beat each other up if one of us accidentally played something a little shreddy. No shreddy. Yeah. That's amazing. I guess that the victory of that restraint, because I mean, when you can shred, when you guys can really do it, I mean, the amount of sort of like, you know, cock driven relief possible is profound because

you can just go and just like punch it all the way through so there must have been because that makes sense to me now man because like you know when you can shred you can push all your energy right forward so if you're pulling all that stuff back and the power has to be in your voice in the chords then it becomes this larger almost like like, you know, building thing. Yeah, I think that something like that happened. Yeah, that makes sense, man. That's exciting. But you get along with your old man now?

Yeah. That took some time? Well, it just took us getting back into each other's lives. Yeah. Like I said, he was in Germany. Now he's back. He's in Marina del Rey and I see him every now and then. Gets along with the grandkids.

Grandkids tend to make a big difference. Yeah. Yeah, they love him. Oh, yeah. That's fucking. He's cool. Yeah. And he's not too, he doesn't lay the religion on you?

No. I mean, he's so passionate about his faith. And it's, when you believe something that much, and it's hard not to want to share it with other people. And, you know, in that religion, they want to save people. And, gosh, like, of course he would want to save his son. But I think at the same time, you've got to learn to respect other people and their point of view. And there's only so much you can do or say.

And he's okay with that? Yeah, I mean, he invites me to see him preach. And I love going to see him preach. Is he good? Yeah. Yeah. He delivers? Yeah, it's so passionate and musical.

There's like a band playing the whole time, the whole hour he's preaching, and it builds to this tremendous climax. Oh, yeah? me to see someone who shares genes with me performing because i see in him the same kind of introspective person but he's up there in the spotlight and he's got to connect to an audience and i see the things he does and it inspires me and gives me ideas for what i can do too oh yeah just there's a build to it like if someone's a good preacher especially a pentecostal preacher there's a rhythm right does he have that does he have that rhythm yeah oh that's impressive and i i see him look at his the other people up on this on the stage and he's connecting to the other musicians and the singers and uh i can tell he's just he's in his own little world up there with them. And that's how I feel on stage with Weezer.

Yeah. And also, you know that he comes from, you know, he's got music in him. You know, I mean, he played some bebop drums at some point. Yeah. So that's in there. And so it's interesting to make a genetic connection. And also, you specifically as a front man. Like, I've had this realization recently about, about you know the nature of front men in general but you're i mean you're a little different than that you know you're such

a proficient and um stylized musician as well like some front men are just you know nut jobs who sing but but like so much it seems of the tone of the music and the material within the music is really driven and compelled by your emotions and your experience. that they're following your brain in a certain way, but yet do their part in it, has got to be kind of a charge. But also I imagine there had to have been times where it was just sort of like, you're not getting it. Has there?

Well, by the time we're on tour and we're up on stage and just playing, I don't think, I'm not thinking of who came up with what at all. It's just here we are and let's just blow each other away with how awesome we are and do you do it yeah i saw you in bumper shoot what was that 2007 8 oh yeah um maybe even 2010 yeah yeah yeah you know that wasn't a good show i'm sorry you saw that one really you remember that yeah why what happened

i just felt really awkward had it been a while no i think we had i think we had played at least a few like a week before that we've been playing and every show had been amazing and then that one wasn't just didn't feel right yeah huh i felt self-conscious oh didn't get in the zone oh yeah that still happens sometimes not so often how does that manifest itself what does self-conscious mean like you couldn't like let loose and yeah i can't just thinking too much and not you know self-critical thoughts right rather than goosebumps right well that was the night though because it was like you know i'd not you know self-critical thoughts right rather than goosebumps right well that was the night though because it was like you know i'd always you know been familiar with with a lot of

you guys and stuff but it was one of those moments for me where you guys were playing a lot of stuff from your entire catalog and it was one of those moments where you know i'd listen to weezer on and off but it was one of those nights where i'm like, holy fuck, they got a lot of songs. You know, like, oh yeah, that's, you know what I mean? It's wild. The catalog that you put together for yourself. Yeah, they add up over the years. It makes for a cool show, especially

in these giant shows where there's a lot of people who aren't so familiar with us. There's a lot of songs that it turns out they know. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, because it's just like because it's almost like songs you grew up with. Yeah. Do you feel that, especially with Pinkerton, do you feel that you were a sort of seminal kind of motivator

of what would be considered emo rock or a certain type of alternative rock? Do you feel that you've laid an influence on that like even that album is as as misunderstood as it was initially i think that the people who it's important to and the musicians who thought it was a masterpiece uh immediately i feel like it kind of propelled something yeah um i often hear a lot of when i meet other musicians they they bring up that album that's as an album that was important to them and they they played those songs when they were younger who do you like uh watching now nothing nothing comes to mind i mean i like watching any i just love music i love watching bands and anything it's all interesting to me you like

being in show business i mean i i i wouldn't think to use that word i know that phrase but yeah i love it i just want to make it old-timey for you yeah yeah what is this tv project you got going honestly i don't know much about it yet. These guys, the writer and the producers came up with this idea and asked me if it was cool, if they proceeded with it. And I said, sure. And they said, all right, we're going to call you a producer. And I said, okay. And they haven't really done anything yet, but we'll see. You have no idea? It's based on you?

I mean, I doubt it's going to have much to do with me, other than just the basic premise that I lived through. I'm sure they're going to, because, I mean, my life was, you know, actually not all that interesting. It was a lot of studying and tests and not anything worth a TV show. I don't know. I would spend 12 episodes in the house with your notebooks. Well, we'll see. I think they're going to come up with their own story,

and it may not be about me, and I may not be involved in the process. So I was pretty surprised and freaked out that it became a big story last week when the network put out that press release. Fox. And by the time it made it to the 10th internet headline, it was, Rivers Cuomo to star in Weezer sitcom. There you go. Better tell the guys. Yeah. So, you know, we won't even know for a long time, but probably by next summer we'll have a better idea of what it is and if it's even going to happen. So are you going to do, how many of those Weezer cruises did you do?

Two. And they were just for fun? Initially, they were just for fun, but we quickly realized that it's an incredibly helpful and restorative coming together of Weezer and those core fans where we get to learn so much about each other and bond. And it just helps give us so much focus and helps remind us of who we are deep down inside and what we want to do. Okay. Now just to end on this, on something we brought up earlier on this new record, like my impression of it on two or three listens was that it is sort of a return to form, you know, like, you know, really first album form, obviously with Rick producing. And there's that sound that, that is, that is sweet and poppy and has the punch and the lyrics. And there's that sound that is sweet and poppy and has the punch and the lyrics, and there's even a hook or two. But you said that half of it is like that, but you feel that half of

it is part of an evolution that was going on all the way through. How do you sort of define that? Well, even in the song Back to the Shack, it it's on the surface we're talking about going back to that old sound from 94 yeah but listen to it there's nothing like that music on the blue album at all it's like a very uh you know like a big hard rock riff right um and even the chorus has this kind of groove to it that we've never done before. So that's just an example of something that's half classic and yet half very new that we couldn't have done before. So it's nuanced in that way in your mind,

that because of how you constructed the sound of Weezer early on, you know when you're like, oh, we're rocking out a little bit. But maybe the common ear is not going to be able to identify it immediately. Well, I think a lot of fans have made the same observation that I just did. Like, you know what? This doesn't sound like 94. Right. So I think the fans that are really listening won't be fooled.

So I think the fans that are really listening won't be fooled. But there's also this seven and a half minute quasi-instrumental at the end of the album. Of course, we had something like that on the Blue Album, too. But in this case, on the Blue Album, it's the same four chords over and over and over again. It's like this ground bass that we are soloing over. This new one is very different because the music continually evolves underneath the solos. The chords never repeat,

and it just goes on and on into ever new territory. And that's not something we would have done back then or could have done. Right. Have you been performing that piece live yet? No.

We planned to do the whole album front to back in October and November in several smaller venues around the country. But we haven't actually put in the work to learn these as a four-piece yet. That's going to be kind of exciting to perform live. It's going to be unbelievable.

And it's such a technically demanding piece, and there's so many parts, that we actually, our bass player had to have a new instrument built so we could pull it off. It's this double neck bass and guitar. So he's going to be joining us on the five part solo.

Our drummer also is going to have to play guitar at some point. Really? Yeah, so all five of us will be shredding together. Finally. Finally. This is it. You've waited your whole life for this.

Full circle, man. Yeah. So that's really exciting. So you've got like a little concept album within this album. Yeah. Well, I'm looking forward to it. Are you going to do a mixture of big spaces and small spaces on the tour? Well, this first tour is just going to be pretty small spaces.

I'm not sure where it's going to be in L.A. yet. What are you thinking? I'm thinking the Belasco Theater downtown. Oh, yeah? I don't even know that place. Yeah, I think it's about 1,500 capacity. Oh, wow. Well, it was great talking to you.

You seem well, and I'm happy about it. Thank you. You too. Thanks for talking to me, Rivers. You're welcome. That's it. That's our show.

He's an interesting guy. He's an intense guy. He's an intense guy. I was nervous going in because I'd heard that he was intense and difficult. But once I got the gauge on him, I felt that we had a very nice conversation. And he's a good guy. And he's keeping it together. And he's grown. And he's at a good place in his life.

And I felt happy about that. What else? Go to WTFpod.com for all your WTFpod needs. I appreciate you listening to the show. Pick up some JustCoffee.coop at WTFpod.com. Leave a comment through Facebook. Look at the merch. We're going to restock the MTV shirts.

I know. Maybe I need to make some new shirts. I'm just busy. I'm just busy. And I feel okay. Don't get me wrong. I feel okay. Okay? I do. I feel all right. I'm 51. I'm okay. I'm not freaking out. I'm not freaking out. Do I sound older? Do I sound... Oh, something's giving way. Something's happening. Something I think is relaxing. Either something's relaxing or something is giving up.

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