WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 544 - Andre Royo

Episode Date: October 22, 2014

You may know Andre Royo as Bubbles from The Wire. For Andre that's both a blessing and a curse. He describes the near-breakdown he had while playing the sympathetic Baltimore street junkie and how the role forever changed his career. Also, Andre and Marc compare life on the Lower East Side in the mid-90s with their current shared neighborhood in gentrified LA. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5 p.m. in Rock City at torontorock.com. Lock the gates! All right, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers? What the fuck, buddies? What the fucking ears? What the fucks the bulls? What the fucking Ham Palace guards?

Thank you for suggesting that, that fellow on Twitter. I am Mark Maron. This is my show. This is WTF. I appreciate you guys being here. I'm not real sure what I'm going to say today, but that hasn't stopped me before. I am excited about our guest today, Andre Royo, who was Bubbles on the Wire, lives down the street from me, kind of. He's also on this new series.

It's a dramatic series called Hand of God, and it just got picked up by Amazon. So you can look for that, the new season of that early next year. But I was thrilled. I was thrilled to run into him. I actually ran into Andre at the Independent Spirit Awards, and he's a live wire, man. He's electric. He's full-on New York City. It just reminded me of when I lived in New York and just the kind of characters you meet there. He is it, man. He is wired like that city is wired,

and it was pretty amazing to talk to him. His wife's got a restaurant down in Atwater that I'm supposed to go eat at, but I haven't yet, but I will. I will go eat there. I've added some Trippany House shows. I'm going to be doing one next Tuesday. That's October 28th. I'll be doing one November 11th and November 18th. If you guys didn't get to see me or you want to see me again or whatever you want to do, they're $8 shows. They're benefits for the theater. They are workshop shows and you can go to to tripanyhouse.org and get tickets for

those they generally sell out so i would go get them if you want to see me a lot of people have been coming and like well i'm talking about stress for some reason every time before i go to the tripany house i i somehow get myself into some sort of state man and i don't do this with all shows but i and i don't do this with all shows, and I don't want to be one of those guys that thinks I have to be crazy in order to perform. But for some reason, before I go to the Trippany House, there are 8 o'clock shows,

I will drink about a half a pot of coffee at 7.30. I will get into my car. I will jam out on loud music that gets me amped up. And by the time I get to the Tripping house, I'm over amped. I'm aggravated. My, my heart is clenched like a fist, but open. It's weird. I don't know if you, if you've ever had that feeling where your entire body is tight, but

your heart is open. It's almost like, well, I can't close my heart, but my body's ready to snap shut at any moment. And, and it seems like a lot of my better performances come from me working back from a tremendously stressed out state. And I know people have suggested meditation for me. Last on Monday, Martin Starr suggested maybe I'd get into Buddhism, but I don't... What do you learn? Why quiet it down? Why should I quiet it down? Why people are like, you got to, you know, move through the distractions, get rid of the distractions. Just listen to your breath, close your eyes, sit, sit and breathe. But what is the big realization?

I mean, usually I don't try to meditate until I'm whacked out of my mind. And then I'm just sitting and breathing and I'm, you know sitting and breathing and it's panicky. I'm almost hyperventilating. That's not meditating. But I can definitely feel something when I hyperventilate. I mean, I can feel myself getting dizzy and I'm like, this is really good. That's not meditating. That's panic.

I guess I'm just copping to the fact that I need to electrify my mind in order for it to fire on all cylinders and get my imagination going. Because last night was a spectacular show. But here's something that I've recently become aware of. And I just want to give some of you people a heads up. And you know if I'm talking to you or not. And if I'm not talking to you, whatever. Listen or don't.

Figure out whether or not you're addicted to sadness. Figure out whether or not you're addicted to sadness figure out whether or not you're addicted to tragedy figure out whether or not you're you're addicted to maintaining a victim's disposition i guess what i'm saying is i talked to my father and uh you know we're talking and everything's everything's fine but you know i literally have to talk him out of some sort of pit of despair whenever i talk to him which is okay but i have to i have to fortify myself before i call him because it's at this point you know with your parents it's weird because i know that i'll call my father and he'll go hello and i'll go hello and he'll go like you don't sound good what's up i'm like what are you

judging on i it was a greeting don't i'm not taking the bait but we had a nice conversation but then i realized that that sadness is compelling and and self-pity is compelling because it's consistent you know it's weird happiness is fleeting positivity takes a lot of energy if it's not your natural disposition which it isn't for most people and you can be one of those people if you want but the idea that weird warm heat that that sort of deep heat of defeat is something consistent it's deep down in you because we know that's what you get from meditation it's not defeatedness but that's the awareness that that this is all temporary but the truth of the matter is there's nothing more consistent and easily tapped into than that feeling of sadness. And one of the

symptoms of this is like how much you, like my father, we have a big, long conversation about how I'm doing. I'm saying I'm great. He says he's okay. And then like, I guess it was going too well because he goes, oh God, man, you know, I was about to hang up. And he's like, then like i guess it was going too well because he goes oh god man you know i was about to hang up and he's like yeah the world is it's ending it's ending the world's ending you know isis and global warming and it's just this litany this list of things and i'm like why are you doing that to yourself you're not an isis target necessarily i know you think the world of yourself but that's not it but what i realized in that moment is that there's a, you know, for a lot of people, sadness, tragedy, paranoia, and the pain of defeat is steady. It's right there under the surface at all times on an existential level. So it's the easiest thing to tap into. And I would say if you could, and this is just me giving you a

heads up because I'm giving myself a heads up. It's not, I don say if you could, and this is just me giving you a heads up because I'm giving myself a heads up. It's not, I don't want you to be apathetic and I don't want you to avoid things, but try to put things in perspective and decide what is really within your control, what you can do something about and what you're getting out of that sadness. What are you getting out of it? I mean, it does separate you from the pack because you're the buzzkill guy, you know, and you don't want to be that guy or you're the guy that's sort of like, oh, everyone's got a struggle to be around you because you're inconsolable. Inconsolable over what?

What's your problem? Well, you know, I'm inconsolable over being alive because if you have that disposition, no one's going to make you feel better, so what is your agenda in life to drag other people down to your level and that's when you feel better when you finally get somebody to go like oh my god yeah it does suck and you're like right okay i'll see you later jesus christ try to avoid that would you i'm trying you try i hope i didn't do it to you during this monologue i really do if i did i'm sorry all right man you are you ready talk are you ready to are you ready to talk to the man behind bubbles on the wire that is one of the best

characters ever on television ever so uh strap in man this andre roy Andre Royo guy, he's electric, man. All right, let's talk to him. You can get anything you need with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs and mozzarella balls, yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats, get almost, almost anything. Order now.

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Take a closer look at CalgaryEconomicDevelopment.com. Andre. Andre. Royo. Yeah. Now, what that's not, I guess, because I would think that if it's Spanish, but no. Yes, it's a sore spot. It is? On my whole Cuban side of my life, it's a sore spot that I can't, I can't speak Spanish. I can't roll my R's.

Yeah, I can't do that. You got an R issue? I have an R issue, yes. What's your R issue? I can't roll it. I got a fat tongue.

Oh, so it's just. Ladies, I have a fat tongue. Yeah. Put it out there. Put it out there, you know.

So you just, like to me, you're a personification of New York City. Yes, I am a personification of New York City. Yes, I am a personification of New York City. Is that the acting or the voice? Just you. Just my embodiment. Like when I ran into you at the Independent Spirit Awards,

it was just sort of like, what? New York's wandering around. Yes, I was. Somebody take care of New York. Somebody make sure he has a pass. Because you know New York. He's walking around and going into the Jameson tent. There's a problem.

But you moved to, you live down the street from me. I do. I live in Highland Park right next to this big ass, I think, high school. Why the fuck would you move? Then you got to deal with the bells. You know what? I was just, I got hypnotized in South Pasadena where everything was about the farmer's market every Thursday.

And I was like, yo, I'm not ready. I'm not ready to sign. I'm not ready to punch in my clock and say, okay, I'm done. I just want a rocking chair and fresh organic oranges. I wasn't ready. Well, it's a little bit of a quiet middle class life in Pasadena. I mean, it's beautiful. You need some grit. I need a little bit. I need a little bit

of New York grit. And somebody told me, yo, let's go have a drink at Johnny's. And I was like, that sounds kind of weird. let's go go have a drink at Johnny's and I was like oh sure that sounds kind of weird let's go to Johnny's it reminded me of

the Lower East Side a little bit it does right that chunk of York I never really thought about it because it just started happening yes that's what I heard

but I lived on the Lower East Side but if I really thought about it those two blocks the one with the coffee shop Johnny's it's a little Lower East Side a little I mean a little

very little but if you go back to New York there is no Lower East Side so this is johnny's and it's a little lower east side i mean a little very little but if you go back to new york there is no lower east side so this is what i got left gone it's gone i think that's that's another part of the world that is another part of my memory that it's fucked up but the weird thing is when people compare stuff to new york even when they compare it like it's like new york's not because even if it's a block you know maybe the block looks like that but you feel the weight yeah and the energy of New York. Where'd you grow up exactly? I grew up in the Bronx in Boston Road, Fish Avenue. But most of my growing up as far as into manhood was probably Lower East Side.

Really? A and B, C and D. Get the fuck out of here. Yeah, it was kind of crazy. How old are you? Now I'm 45. You're 45. I'm 50.

Yeah. Well, you look good. White people. Yeah. Well you look good though, white people age different. So you look good for 50. I don't know what you're doing. It must be the five months hit it and quit it. Because you look good for 50. Because I went back to my high school reunion

and 50 fucks white people up. They look like they just melting. They just look like it's all melting into their belly. Something gave up. Yes, so you look good for 50. Congratulations. But I have questions about that area because I lived on 2nd between A and B. Yep.

1989 to 91. Okay. Now- I wasn't there yet. You weren't there yet? I wasn't there yet. I graduated in 86, and I thought,

I brainwashed my family into believing that I would do good in school if I left all this distraction of New York City so I went to school in Florida where it was bikinis and fucking just even more of a mess in West Palm Beach where I got a black man got the real experience of spring break

so I got a.73 average and had to get the fuck out of there..73 that's commendably bad. Yes, yes that's commendably bad. Yes, yes. I was all in. I was all committed to the bikinis. But we're in the Bronx, so paint me a picture of that.

I mean, what was your family like? You've got a bunch of brothers and sisters. No, only child. Only child. Only child. Only child, and it was a very interesting experience that I can reflect on and realize, wow, I kind of stood out without knowing it because my on and realize, wow, I kind of stood out

without knowing it because my mom and dad were together and we lived in a little two-story private house in the Bronx next to the Hillside Projects and I realized that

I felt, you know, regular, but I was looked upon as kind of rich. Oh, really? Because you had a house? Yeah,

house and everybody was living in the projects and mom and dad were together. Like most of them, all of my friends were, house, and everybody was living in the projects. And mom and dad were together. Like, all of my friends were either living with their dad or living with their mom or being raised by their grandparents. Yeah, yeah. So I would come home from school, and half the neighborhood would be in my house just looking at my mom and dad like, this is the Cleveland.

This is it. Look at how this motherfucker's living. And it kind of helped me because, you know i would try to get you know i'm a little nerdy dude you know glasses braces are you really you were a nerd i was a nerdy dude but they kind of looked out for me in the neighborhood because i they saw me living with my mom and dad when i tried to get into dirt yeah the they were like nah man get the fuck get the fuck off the block go home to your mama you're going to private school we're gonna make sure you make it let us sell these drugs we don't need your help. We got you.

When my mom came down the street, they would hide. Like, hi, Mrs. Royale. How you doing, Mrs. Royale? Or they call her Mama Drugs. Because really, if somebody, a young cat, was like selling drugs, when my mom walked down the block, they'd fuck him up. Like, you didn't see her walking? That's Mama Drugs.

Don't let her. Don't sell because they like to hang out at the house. So they didn't want that bad. They didn't want that bad. They like the family atmosphere. And they didn they didn't want that bad. They didn't want that bad. They like the family atmosphere, and they didn't want to fuck that up. They didn't want to fuck that up. So what did your dad do? My dad had a couple of clothing stores in Harlem.

Mr. T's, Ebony Fashion. So he was like an entrepreneur, and he would come home and bring. I'm talking about a nerdy kid looking like Little Caesar. I had the floor shine wingtips. I had the double breasted suits. I had- And the glasses. And the glasses,

you know, and I was like, Nick, Nick, hey, hey guys, come on. I had the PR cadet, PR cadet, like, you know,

ties, matching handkerchiefs. So I would go to school and the teachers used to be a little jealous. Like, you dress better than what you do.

Your dad took care of you. He took care of me. And what'd your mom do? My mom, at that time, she was working at albin einstein she was an accountant uh-huh oh working in the business side you know i don't i don't really know what she did i just know that she was home by six i was a last key so i would come home and just let myself in so from three to like six i was home by myself yeah and that was like another thing that the neighborhood loves because my house was empty they watch tv i had like Another thing that The neighborhood loves Because my house was empty

They watched TV I had the short stay hotel In my house I used to charge people To go in the room Bang it out a little bit And leave me some money So I used to cook them

Steak'em sandwiches Remember steak'em sandwiches Sure Steak'ems I used to cook them Steak'em sandwiches It's like Philly cheesesteaks That's right

Yeah I used to cook that And when they came out the room I would feed them Oh really Yeah Your buddies though It was my short stay

A little bit of money And it was a hotel oh that's sweet but uh it's sweet thank you so which side's Cuban I'm a father your father's Cuban and how now how how far have you how many generations in in the states uh well he he his parents were in Cuba really he was born here I never talked to some with a Cuban background. You're not talking to one now because I don't know anything about it. I had a choice between Menudo and New Edition when I was growing up, and I went New Edition. So you're not talking to one now.

Trips back to Cuba. One trip when I was four, I don't remember any of it at all. You still got people there or no? I believe so. My father just went back maybe about a couple of years ago and was looking for some relatives. I think he found some in the hills somewhere. But it was just a different experience. I would love to go back now before they turn it into Disneyland.

That's the fear. People want to go back to the- They want to go now. The decrepit charm of lack of maintenance. That's right. They don't want some McDonald's there. They don't want the IHOP. Yeah.

But it was just weird. I don't speak Spanish. I don't dance some McDonald's there. They don't want some IHOP. Yeah. But it was just weird. I don't speak Spanish. I don't dance. My father apparently was a famous dancer. Really? Apparently? Apparently. When I hung out with him and we would go to nightclubs when I was at that age, they would

slap me in the back of the head like, your father used to dance with three, four women. Blah, blah, blah. He could dance his ass off. And I had to wait for the little hip hop section to come on. And then I'd dance. And they would look at my father like, what the fuck did you do? Why didn't you turn to, how come you didn't train the kids? Yes, that's right.

You didn't teach them anything? Nothing, nothing. You know, speaking Spanish, it was hard because, you know, mom ran the household. Oh, she did? My dad was the enforcer, but my mom was like, you know, taking care of everything. So English was more prominent. Right. So, you know, and then I'd, you know, go outside.

Did your mom speak Spanish? Only, you know, and then I, you know, go outside. Did your mom speak Spanish? Only callate la boca, you know, callate, shut the fuck up or go get me some dinero. So your father just got trained. He got trained,

that's right, that's right. I'm sorry, Dad. You can have the woman, but she's not gonna speak your language, so get up to speed. Yes,

my father wanted to name me Carlos and that didn't work out, but that's good because a Carlos Royal that can't speak Spanish, that'd have been devastating. That's a lot didn't work out. But that's good, because Carlos Royal, that can't be Spanish. That would have been devastating. That's a lot of pressure. Yes.

But I think I'm going to take it now. I think I made a place to my dad. Good luck with that. Is it harder, you think? I have no aptitude for it. I mean, if you've got a feel for it, then maybe you'll be all right. How do you know? Have you tried speaking a different language?

I'm shitty with grammar and English. Yeah, I'm still working on English, too. Yeah, because a lot of it- It's the enunciation that I have a problem with. But it's like a lot of it is t English. Yeah, I'm still working on English, too. Because like a lot of it. It's the enunciation that I have a problem with. But it's like a lot of it is, you know, tenses. Yeah. So like everything changes. Like I think if you have a fundamental understanding of grammar and you kind of have a handle on

language and I mean, maybe you can do it. I don't know that I really tried. It just seemed like I just. I just got back from Berlin. Right. And my first time. What were you doing there? I was working on this project.

This director wanted to do a TV show, and he wanted to shoot a teaser. And just hanging out in Berlin. Well, I guess, you know, you experience it if you travel abroad a lot. But everybody speaks like three languages, four languages. America, we're just like this. What? Well, English is all we needed, so fuck off. And we'll wait for someone to speak English.

Like, no, I can't. When are you going to? You fix it. You change it. So I feel a little, you know you know as i get older i know i'm about to kick the bucket soon and i just feel like it's it's ignorant that we did not explore and learn like at least two three languages well i think it's a little uh yeah i think it is sort of ignorant but it also has to do with the public school system what are you going to do i i think that by nature the intimacy of europe and these people are traveling from country

to country. They probably have friends in other countries and sometimes the languages are not that different. That's right. They kind of like, they just pick it up.

They embrace it, yeah. They don't think about it. Here it's like. Well, you know, like I say, we're in LA. We're traveling really. Two blocks is all Mexican.

I know. So we can do it too but we just like, fuck you speak English. It gets late in the game. Is it harder? I don't know. Try it, man.

What, you can get the Rosetta Stone shit? I got the Rosetta Stone. I'm going to pay the $3,000 to do Berlitz or whatever that. You are? I'm going to do it. Because at least I got to look at my dad like, hey, I gave it the effort. So if I don't speak it now, I can at least say, dad, I tried. Well, even if you learn some things.

Yeah. Even if you don't know a conversation. I'm going to say his eulogy will be in Spanish. Yeah. I'll give him that. I'll give him his wings and speak the eulogy. Badly pronounced Spanish. You're going to go out of your way to stumble.

Spanglish, Spanglish, yeah. Spanish eulogy. Yes. I like this idea that you're a nerdy kid, and you're looked at as a little higher than the rest of them, but they're not beating up on you because they like your parents. Yeah. They like my parents. They like me walking around with the floor shine and double breasted suits they were like yo you just you just say that about fucking tv you're like what are you

i mean you know your character i was a character and they and they really kind of protected me they really kind of what does that mean like what you you mean you just want to go along with some shit you like yeah like i wanted to hang out all night in the corner and drink a 40, mix it with the fucking pina colada bottles and James. They're like, no, drink water. No, go to the store, get us some sundews and get us a bag of chips and then take your ass home. We got a lot of hope on you, kid. It's all riding on you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's KRS-One and Andre Royo. Let's go. We only get one of those every once in a while. That's right, that's right. And we voted you the guy it was it was really it was it was amazing it was amazing and like even you know but what kind of shit was going on really right there um this i get you know from from my point of view growing up

it's just regular kid stuff you know a couple of shootings a couple of gangbangers you know one girl was burning everybody in the neighborhood they made They made sure I didn't sleep with her. Like, she was hot. That was like the first double D's episode of my life. I'm like this, I want her. And they would pull me over like, you stick your dick in her and it'll explode. We're not allowing you.

So burning means you're giving everybody the clap? STD, whatever. Yeah, clap, the syphilis, all of it. She had all of it. Like, she had everything. But it wouldn't stop nobody because you get really fucked up enough. You're like, I'll try. Maybe it'll skip me. Yeah, yeah of it. She had all of it. She had everything. But it wouldn't stop nobody because you get really fucked up enough. You're like, I'll try. Maybe it'll skip me.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe if I go anal it won't affect me. That's how we thought we were young. That's pretty logical, I guess. Well, everybody thinks they're going to be the ones that can avoid it. Not everybody gets it. Somebody has to be clean. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Somebody's going to get lucky. And we had somebody's

mom who was a nurse, so she used to have the penicillin pills is that true yeah we had somebody somebody's mom was a nurse and we just go there and get like oh can i get some penicillin pills is that true yeah yeah that's funny yeah so everybody we were thinkers it was corporate america in the hood we knew how to fucking problems. So you're a pretty good student in high school, though, right? No. No. No, because I just took everything, you know, I took everything for granted.

Yeah. You know, again, I went to an all-boys school. Like, my mom and dad did whatever they had to do and got me into the school, Mount St. Michael Academy. Yeah. And they took me on, like, a Sunday. Yeah. And I walked in. I'm looking at this campus, three football fields, two baseball fields. It looked like a castle. Yeah. and I walked in I'm looking at this campus three football fields two baseball fields

It looked like a castle. Yeah, and I'm like, oh my god. This is amazing I got there. I signed up that the principal was like yo your parent you ain't got the grades But your parents your parents love you and you got the look you fucking nerd What's wrong with you? You look like you could be Bill Gates or he wasn't around But you look like you could be just a you know. And I went there on a Monday trying to save a seat for a girl and found out it was all boys and lost my mind. You didn't know? I didn't know.

They took me on a Sunday and they wanted to sell the image. That was a deal breaker. It was a deal breaker as far as, okay, now it's my turn to pay back. I'm not doing nothing. I'm not. Did you have to wear an outfit? We just had to wear. I mean, it was picture perfect for me because there was no uniform.

We just had to wear a suit. You know, like a tie. You had suits. I had suits for days. I told you. Teachers was like, who is this walking in looking like the dean? Who is this little motherfucker? And I, you know.

And I was doing good until certain things needed effort. Like, I was good at math until it became algebra. And then I didn't know why they had letters and numbers. I have no idea. Like, I don't know why they had letters and numbers. I have no idea. You told me one's the alphabet, one's the numbers. Why are you mixing them? 1A plus 1B means somebody dropped the Scrabble board and I don't know what's going on.

And I just didn't... And this is, I guess, part of where I'm growing up and my friends. I did not see what being good in school was really going to evidently bring to me. Everybody was doing construction, starting their own business,

going to the army, or selling drugs. Yeah. So there's nobody there that was like, you know, I graduated a magnum cum laude. Right. Everybody was like, go to school. That's three hours of you to do something else. But college was necessarily, but that's usually the thing you're thinking, is like college, you're going to go to school. That's three hours of you to do something else. But college was necessarily,

but that's usually the thing you're thinking, is like college, you're gonna go to college. Well, when you start high school, about the 10th, 11th, 12th grade, that's when they hit you up with the, where you gonna go, where you gonna go? Are you ready, are you prepared, you wanna do it? And I'm like, no, I wanna be an actor.

And when you say acting, they just don't question how to do it. They just say, you sure? Yeah, that's crazy. You know, I mean, that's a hard one. That's crazy talk. You're not going to make it. And that just motivated me.

When did you decide you wanted to be an actor? I decided, like, I would say probably around 12th grade, 11th, 12th grade, I decided I wanted to be an actor, but didn't know what that meant. Right. Like, I didn't know. Everybody wants to be an actor at some point. I mean, I didn't know how to get and i was college wasn't an ideal aspect that was where you had to study yeah but acting is fun it's playtime so i would i would hang out in like manhattan

and just try to be discovered like walking around up and down fucking soho with a suit on like come on come on i heard about it i go to ice cream parlor come on i know i heard the stories you fine motherfuckers so find me. And it didn't happen. But when did you go down the Lower East Side? When were you living there? So you went to college. I went to college for two years.

Florida, what for? West Palm Beach, Florida. What was the school? It was a school called Northwood Institute. And your parents were just sort of like, we're going to get you in somewhere? You did all right. No, they paid the money. They bought the shit I was selling.

If I go there, it was an automotive dealership school. What? It was an automotive dealership school. How the fuck did you land on that? Because it was the only school that first took me. And second, they had a quota. They was like, you know, we need, like, I was like seven black people. And I was one of seven.

For auto dealership school? I mean, that was their main thing. I took business. I took advertising. But their main crux of the school was big dealerships teaching their kids how to take over the business. So I'm hanging out with kids that have Testarossa. What was that car called? The Testarossa. Oh, yeah, Testarossa.

Testarossa, the Porsche. They're being all these dealerships. So every kid. I never heard of this. I never heard of a school that the focus was car dealership. Yeah, that's what it was. And I was, yo, I was the honor student for a little while because that one teacher teaching business was like,

you know what, you dress really sharp. That's already high marks. That was high marks. Just appearance sells. Look the part, be the part, motherfucker. They thought you meant it. They thought I was serious. You showed up with your suits.

You're like, this guy is gonna be good. This guy, he's gonna be big. Nah, he's quota, and he's good. Yes, but then they didn't tell me that the girls would go to school with bikinis, and, you know,

getting ready to go to, you know, the beach and all that. And that tore me up. That tore me up, because then also the girls were, like, looking at me, and I had a buddy of mine that I convinced to go with me,

and they were looking at us like, you know, is it true? Like, is it true what they say about well, come on, let me talk to you about it. Or I hate my dad. You know what would piss him off? I do know what would piss him off. I'm willing to be involved. I'll take care of that revenge. And that was

you know, that really, really You had a good time. I had a great time. It destroyed my collegiate adventure. But you helped a lot of girls. I helped a lot of girls and it taught me, it prepared me. Now that I think about it it prepared me when I came back great time. It destroyed my collegiate adventure. But you helped a lot of girls. I helped a lot of girls, and it taught me. It prepared me. Now that I think about it, it prepared me when I came back.

When I went to Soho, when I finally started hanging out in the Soho area, I wasn't blown away by how different the race was and the whites was accepting blacks and money and all that. But New York never really felt that way to me. You felt that? I mean, in the hood, yeah. I would go to Allentown Avenue and get chased by some Italians. Like, get the fuck out of here to me. You felt that? I mean, in the hood, yeah. In the hood, you know. I would go to Allentown Avenue and get chased by some Italians. Like, get the fuck out of here, monkey.

Like, you would feel it. Right. But it was just growing up. Right. It wasn't like, oh, my God. It was like, doesn't everybody go through this? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It didn't stand out as wrong. Right.

As to that as you know what neighborhood to go to, you know what not to. And you go in that neighborhood, then you're wrong. They're not wrong. You're the ass for going in there. But Soho's sort of like a walkthrough neighborhood. Soho was just, it's about money. Yeah. We don't care what race you are,

what are you doing, why are you standing out, and you're here for a reason. And if you look good, that means something. That means that, you know, you get a pass. So you come back from Florida. Let's say 91, because when I came back,

I was doing construction with my dad, and he was, you know. What happened to the clothing store? At one point, it was over. It's gone. It's just gone. He started doing construction, which was bigger money. I was making $22 an hour.

He was contracting? He was doing laboring. Cement laborer. I was local 6A cement laborer. It was great. He was a union guy? Union guy, yep, yep. Wow, that's a big shift from entrepreneur to cement guy.

New York City, baby. You know how it is. New York City, you can make it happen. You bump into jobs. You bump into a whole new life. That's the one thing I've always noticed about New York. At any hour during the day, at any hour, morning, noon, or night, in the middle of the night, there's always a guy in a hole working on something.

Something. Something needs to get done. Something needs to get done. Something needs to get done. Something's broken in the guts of the city. That's right. You don't know. With the daytime movies, they don't know how they live. If we don't do it, we do. I love that about New York, though. There's always a dude yelling at a guy

with that hard hat on. In the subway? It's just everywhere. Four o'clock in the morning, you'll see that one guy with rats and rats. I've never felt safer anywhere, really. I don't, like out here, it's scary.

Because there's no isolation. No, that's right. It's always people around. You just walk outside and you're part of it. Yeah. So early 90s, you go to where we saw you,

you got a friend. I got a friend and his girl is going to an acting school called HB Studios. And I say, can I go with you? And I walk over

and we go to the school and I'm looking and it's one of those, you know, schools where, you know, everybody got a room HB Studios. And I say, can I go with you? And I walk over and we go to the school and I'm looking. And it was one of those schools where everybody got a room and they're doing monologues, they're doing classes. And I'm sitting around like, oh, this is where you go, I guess, when you want to get started. Instead of me walking up and down the block. Wait for somebody to pick me. Did you have pictures or anything?

No. I had no pictures yet. It was just like, you know, I didn't know what to do. I was like, discover me. Let's go was just like, you know, I didn't know what to do. I was like, discover me. Let's go. And then, you know, that started. I signed up for class there. And all of a sudden, you just surround yourself with that energy.

I was doing plays. I was talking to other actors. But the Lower East Side, like at that time, like Giuliani had already come in, right? So they... Yeah, he came in. But there were a lot of theaters. Yeah, like off, off, off, off Broadway. Right, but there was a lot of cops around

Where were you living? I was living The first place I lived Was third between A and B Right next to the cop station Across from Mama's Kitchen Yeah yeah

Oh yeah yeah No not Mama's Kitchen It was just a park Mama's Kitchen was on 5th I loved Mama's Kitchen Mama's Kitchen was great Everything tasted like garlic Yeah

But it was like He was like running a catering business In a restaurant In a cell phone Yeah And you could go and get all this comfort food and shit. I loved that place. The mac and cheese, the mash, the string beans, the roasted chicken.

Yeah. It was great. I wonder what happened to that. It didn't stay open. It's an NYU cafeteria now. It is? I don't know. Everything's in there.

NYU bought everything, yeah. So you were living down there, because I'm just trying to connect my memories, because it was just fucking heroin everywhere when I was down there. Yeah, save the robots. Oh, yeah, yeah. I lived right around the corner from that. I used to live upstairs from Delia's. You know Delia's?

Yep. Yeah, so, you know, and then I would go- Great neighborhood. Great neighborhood. I mean, heroin, women. But they were redoing the park when you were there. Thompson Park? Yeah.

It was, yeah. They were redoing the park, and I just missed that. I just missed- The protests and everything? That whole big thing. I was there for that. Yeah, the crazy, the squatters were pissed, the people that lived in Tams. That's right.

They had enough. Yeah, and there was a lot of action. But Giuliani just crushed everything. We had the squirrels on crack. They used to attack the people. Crack squirrels. Crack squirrels was crazy. And all the squatters.

I know squatters must be mad now, because I was just thinking about that. Squatting and illegal sublets just turned into Airbnbs. I mean, they just make a way. Why do these make a way to make money? Make it corporate. Well, I don't recognize that neighborhood anymore. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but certainly all that grip. It's different because everybody who was sort of like, they moved everybody who lived in

New York out of New York in a weird way. The people that- They didn't move them. They kicked them out. They kicked them out. They drew the line. If you cannot afford it, get out. But it's sort of sad.

That's the saddest part about it. You could always see people that still had rent-controlled apartments, that still had subsidized housing, that were sort of integral to the way the city felt. And now it's like they're all gone. Where the hell are they? They're leaving Staten Island, Brooklyn, wherever. Well, Brooklyn's getting turned out.

And the Bronx is getting turned out. Where the hell are the people that run the city going to live? I think we're eating them. We're eating the people. Soylent Green. Soylent Green. That's right. I always tell people now when I'm hanging out and talking, they say, yo, do you miss

New York? And I just tell them, I say, I miss New York most when I'm in New York. Right. Because that New York doesn't exist anymore. It's weird, right? The New York that we know. It's weird, right? It is weird. It's just, yeah. It's weird, right? The New York that we know. It's weird, right? It is weird.

Yeah, it's weird, it's sad. Sad is wrong because I know the next generation, like my daughter and all that, they're going to experience a New York that we don't know, and I guess our parents said the same thing to us, so it's different. Were you ever a party guy, though? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Nels, The World, MKs, Rex. Nels is the best. It wasn't really my thing. No, okay. But I was never a club guy because I was doing comedy. But I met a dude. I went to Nels once for whatever fucking reason. I don't even know why I met.

I went there. I ended up having one of the worst nights of my life, smoking cocaine with some dude I met at Nels. Who said he was in advertising. So I end up at his apartment with these two girls and he's basing... Thank God you put the girls in the story because I got nervous for you. Oh, no, yeah, no.

The girls were there, but I didn't... He was using me, like, to get, you know, to... I don't know how it... I just remember there was something creepy about it. Like, you know, I was still using, so it was crazy. He's like, you think you'd get those girls to come with us? I'm like, yeah.

He's got cocaine. I'll make you laugh. I was still using, so it was crazy. And he's like, you think you'd get those girls to come with us? I'm like, yeah. He's got cocaine. I'll make you laugh. I'll make you laugh. Yeah, see, what's great about those clubs in New York were, you know, there's so many different experiences. I didn't have that experience. Yeah. But you could see it.

I look at you and I just, that motherfucker's fucked up. Yeah, he's in trouble. He's about to get turned out. That dude's about to get turned out. That dude, he don't know he's talking to a girl right now. He has in trouble. He's about to get turned out. That dude's about to get turned out. That dude, he don't know he's talking to a girl right now. He has no idea. He's about to grab some balls right now. Watch this.

And everybody had a different experience because just the energy and so many people were there. I guess, you know, our parents had Studio 54. I guess so. We had Studio 54. If Studio 54 blew up, it was Nels, The World, MK. It was never just one place. We had so many. But that was part of your life.

That was part of my life. Running around. Running around. Then I became a doorman for a club called the Cheetah Club. I remember that place. It was big. That's when hip hop was in the full explosion. Right.

And black people just had a lot of money. Every hip hop guy had a lot of money. Yeah. And the Cheetah Club, every Monday. Where was that? That was on 21st between Broadway and maybe... So you work in the door

every Monday? What happened? I was the guy. I was the guy that did it. You can come in. Oh, you got to change your clothes. You got to change your clothes. Get out.

Your girl can come in and I used to get... Your girl can come in. Your girl can come in. We'll take care of her but you really... What was the criterion? For single guys,

if a guy was coming, he had to come with at least three or more girls, or we can't let him in. Or, you know, girls can always come in if they're looking hot, they look sexy. And, you know, the ballers, all the Nick players would come, Puffy and all those guys would come. This was the point, you know. You let them in.

I let them in. I got beat up a couple of times, you know, because I would let the rap artist in, but the producer or the manager, who I didn't know, who's not recognizable, I'd be like, nah, my man, get the fuck out. You know what I mean? You got beat up? I got slapped up a couple of times. There's nothing worse than a five, two braces, glasses dude telling you you can't come into

the club. You had braces? I had braces. I had the white, the clear ones when they first started. And so when you drank something, it turned yellow. So my teeth was fucked up. But I got my first acting job being working at the door now this is what were you already in school i was in school i was doing a couple of plays i had the

energy where people knew me from coming off off broadway like the mamas and ps122 you did shows there this shows there what were some of the plays you were doing like sketch comedy all like all uh original works by who by all of you of the writers. The theater groups. Yeah, that one writer who stayed up all night writing about, you know, chicks with dicks and, you know, you tell a joke. But a girlfriend of mine was dating John Singleton, kind of seeing him. And he was casting a movie called Shaft. And she was like, hey, listen, we're going to come to the club tonight.

Make a spectacle. I told him you're an actor. I'm like, cool. So I'm telling everybody at the door, yo, listen, we're going to come to the club tonight. Make a spectacle. I told him you're an actor. I'm like, cool. So I'm telling everybody at the door, yo, it's closed. There's a party. It's shut down. The fire monsters just came. We can't let nobody in.

Oh, shit. Hey, Mr. Singleton, move, move, move, people. Come on in. Come on in. And he was like, oh, thank you so much. My girl tells me that you're an actor. I'm like, yeah, you know, I do my thing. And he was like, yo, I'm doing this movie Shaft.

Why don't you come in and audition? What was that? That was with Samuel Jackson? Sam Jackson, Jeffrey Wright, I mean, Tony Collette. It was a big joint. And I walked in, I got the audition.

I auditioned like about two or three times. And John Singleton, you know, he liked what I was doing. I only knew that one Spanish line. So I kept saying, y cala la boca, tú no me la bonita, coño. And he was like,

wow, you speak Spanish. i'm like yeah i do i do it whatever you need whatever you need john whatever you need baby i learned it and um so i didn't get the part right didn't get the part and and then i was coming out of a a club called bungalow remember bungalow bungalow eight bungalow eight of the club i came out the club and john singleton was there and he looked in kind of weird like oh he's gonna this fucking guy's gonna yell at me because he didn't get the part and whatever

and I go up to him and I'm like hey look I'm not mad I didn't get the part that's nothing to do with you I hope the movie does well that means you'll get another movie and maybe we'll work cool

and he was like this I was like well I like that thank you so much I'm like cool and then one day like about a month later I get a call and it's John Singleton

saying yo my actor dropped out come in it's your part and I was like later, I get a call and it's John Singleton saying, yo, my actor dropped out. Come in. It's your part. And I was like, cool. And I went in there and everybody was mean to me because they didn't know who the fuck I was. And they've been working with the other guy? They've been working with the other guy.

And apparently Shaft had so many problems. People were dropping out, coming in. Oh, really? It was supposed to be a mess. I don't know. But when I got there. How big of a part was it? It was decent.

Yeah. It was enough to get me recognized. It was enough for people to go, hey, look at Tattoo. Shaft. Yo, what's up? You decent yeah it was enough to get me recognized enough for people to go hey look at tattoos you know it was one of those parts and it was cool but it was the first it was the first time you know your mom and dad and all your friends are sitting all the cats from the neighborhood like see we did that yeah we got you there motherfucker yeah we made sure you didn't do any dirt and look at you now you You're a superstar. You're rich. I'm like, no, no.

I'm not rich. That money's spent. Give me some money. Yeah, I drive a Yaris with no hubcaps. Come on. But it was, you know, that part really cemented that I was going to be committed to going forward. Like, I'm an actor now, a working actor,

and I wasn't going to do anything else. Singleton, he did Boys in the Hood, right? Yeah. And then he did, like, that movie, yeah and then he did like that movie baby boy i fucking love that was great i think it's like i don't know one ever talks about it i think it's a fucking masterpiece underrated it was it was a great great story and it was just it was it was it was so beautifully shot yeah you felt that love relationship between uh taraji and uh tyrese yeah it was i, I mean, I'm astounded by that movie and I talk about it like no one's ever seen it.

No, it didn't, I mean, for some reason, you know, Singleton, after Boys in the Hood, he had a couple of movies

that didn't do well so when Baby Boy came out, it didn't get that, if Baby Boy would've came out right after Boys in the Hood, he probably would've got nominated. But it was just one of those movies

where I could, because I don't know the black experience. And for me, I don't know what the black community thought about that movie, but for me, it seemed to me it'd be a reasonable representation

of a struggle within that community. For me, it felt like I had a window in somehow. That's right. I mean, white people had the way we were. We have a baby boy. It's the same story.

It's the same story. It's a love story. But were there movies that you grew up with because of that, that I wouldn't know, I mean, like within the community that were sort of standard bearers? Is that a weird question? No, not a weird question. It's a question that you need to like a professor to question that you need to open up that Jameson

and have some smoke right now and be like, you know what it is? You know what really moved me? Car wash. Car wash was that movie, brother. They were talking about the middle class, the economical struggle, and the never say die attitude that we had to have as we washed your fucking car.

Okay, I get it. And Sidney Poitnier and Bill Cosby, they were the dudes that really was setting up those were great movies. Uptown Saturday Night, Let's Do It Again. Yeah, Let's Do It Again. They were the ones that were really speaking to us that we can share our experience and make money.

I guess the one movie, I guess, that really stood out, that really kind of shown so closely to what I grew up would probably be Cooley High. I don't even know that movie. Cooley High was big. Cooley High. Cooley High. I kind of remember it. Yeah, Cooley High was big, and it was that neighborhood of blacks going to school, not

really learning nothing, but socially learning everything. Yeah. Learning how to be a man. Right. You know, you go to school, it wasn't really about the, for us, it wasn't really about the education of the books. It was the education of how you handle yourself. Right.

Around challenges and around other people. And do you step on somebody who wants to learn? No, you let that motherfucker learn. You tease him a little bit, but let him learn. Like, don't interfere With somebody else's dream Right Go for yours

And it was Cooley High was probably The number one movie That we all felt Right Express our Right Our come up

And also And again made you feel like Well I could do that I could do that Yes That was the one You know I didn't know What was going on with me

But I was like I want to be part of that The movie The white movie That made me say I could do that, yes. That was the one time I didn't know what was going on with me, but I was like, I want to be part of that. The movie, the white movie that made me say I could do that, or the power of the cinema was Rocky. Yeah. Because we grew up in the Blondes. We had a theater called the Melba Theater, and we would go there in the afternoon.

And I remember it was like four chicken wings and french fries, some pizza. We'd go in there and watch Rocky. And towards the end of the movie, I was just like, I couldn't believe chicken wings, french fries, some pizza. We go in there. Oh, my God. Yeah. And watch Rocky. And towards the end of the movie, I was just like, yo, I couldn't believe that the whole theater full of black people was rooting for Rocky. Yeah. Come on, beat the beat the fuck out of Apollo Creed. I'm like, why?

What happened to us? Why are we rooting for the white guy? And, you know, I walked out like, that's movie magic right there. That right there. Because Apollo Creed wasn't a bad guy. He wasn't evil. Yeah. You know, he was like Muhammad Ali. Yeah. But we were? Because Apollo Queen wasn't a bad guy. He wasn't evil. Yeah. You know, he was like Muhammad Ali.

Yeah. But we were like, kill him, Lockie. Kill him. That's real magic. That's magic. I haven't felt that kind of movie magic in a long ass time. I like that you brought the food in the theater. I used to, I was living in Astoria, and there was a theater around the corner from me where like the people in the neighborhood, they literally just short of bringing barbecues

in. No, set up a table. Set up a table. Now they got that dining theater for $40. I'm like, no. I go to the Alk Light still

and bring that goddamn Tender Greens. I get the Tender Greens, I go in there, I saw Godzilla with fucking tuna. Tuna and kale salad. You're the smelly

motherfucker eating the tuna fish. I'm that guy. I'm that guy right behind you. You're the guy that brings the smelly food on the plane.

Yeah. That's right. All right. But, all right that guy. I'm that guy right behind you. You're the guy that brings the smelly food on the plane. Yeah, that's right. All right. But, all right, so when you go to this acting school, how long the program was that, two years? No, you know, the acting school, HB Studios is year-round. I mean, you just take classes. You just take classes.

Yeah, there's no de-graduation, none of that. You just take classes. Now, when I talk to actors, because it's hard for me, I'm doing a little acting myself on my own show. You're doing a great job. Well, thank you. You're acting? Is there a script?

Well, there's a script, yeah. Okay. Then you're acting. No, I'm definitely acting. I mean, I know I'm playing myself, but that doesn't mean nothing. That's kind of hard. It's really hard. It's harder because you don't want script supervisor,

somebody going, I'm not believing you. I'm playing myself. I'm not buying it. You got to sell it, man. Yeah. Well, figuring out, but being acting is acting you know i can't i can't just be myself again you can't well no that's not true no you just can't yeah i mean you just gotta do it five times right you gotta do it for the close-up the wide shot the over the shoulder shot you just gotta

do it a lot more that's right but and be repetitive so you get a little and not be aware of it yeah and not be aware of the camera right in front right that i mean. I mean, I think that's weirdly the trickiest thing. I think that's something either you have or you don't have. If you're not able to focus in on what's going on with all that bullshit going on around you, if you just can't do that, you're fucking out. You're fucking out, but not over. I will say this. I'm still learning, and I find it harder.

I'm still learning how to cope with that medium. I like theater. You do? I love theater. Theater, it's all in. I know the whole script in my head. I did the muscle memory. I did a lot more rehearsals, but it's in there.

Once you step on stage, you're telling a story, and nobody's stopping. That's right. There's no cut. There's no nothing. You're either going to fuck up, or you're going to do it great. And then afterwards, you're going to have a drink and be told off. Like, what the fuck was that line? Whatever it is, it's spiritually satisfying.

In television, back then, we have a joke. We didn't look at TV or movie actors as actors. We're like, what the fuck? You need a close-up? So your real thing was theater initially? My real thing was theater, and still is. I still love that medium more for the art, for the craft. But, okay, let's go back a minute.

So you're taking these classes, and what I was going to say is that what was the most important lesson that you learned initially that was the first mind-blower? Like, you knew you wanted to be an actor, and you liked being on stage, but what was the first tool that you know that? Well, the first tool that blew my mind,

because I talk a good talk. I mean, again, let's be clear. I said acting because I didn't want to be asked questions about what kind of career I wanted. Right. So I wanted to act, but it was also a scapegoat. What blew my mind when I started going to classes was the people telling me that I was good.

Right. That I had something that they would always tell me that you can't teach, which is presence. Yeah. That they just, I have to look at you. Yeah. I got to see what you're doing. Right. And that all of a sudden hits you with a responsibility.

Right. All of a sudden, you have no escape of, you know, I'm really good. They're looking at me. Yeah, I'm really good. Like, I have no reason to fail but myself. Oh, that's fucking great. Because you're waiting for somebody to say, no, you're too short. Yeah. Or you're too this or you're too that. Right. You need work on this. Yeah, I'm really good. Like, I have no reason to fail but myself. Oh, that's fucking great. Because you're waiting for somebody to say, nah, you're too short. Or you're too this or you're too that.

Right, you need work on this. Yeah, you know. But you can just show up and people are looking at you. People are looking at me. And that was kind of cool and kind of scary. Yeah. But then after that, just the hardest part, and I tell people when they ask me, when I'm talking to younger cats, just that perseverance.

Acting in New York and doing the theater and all that, yo, there's no money. There's nothing. And being in your 20s with no money, but being an actor or an artist, it takes that. Some people call it crazy. Some people call it passion.

But it's a mindfuck. Yeah, because you can be great and not necessarily rewarded with money. Yeah, you pay no bills, eat out the fucking trash, or work on the subway and putting the hat down. That's right. It's not necessarily a meritocracy. It's not like you get so good that you're like, all right, you're ready. It's still a roll of the fucking dice. That's right.

And there's still a luck component, a timing component. No matter if you're a genius. That's right. And that's tricky. So that stuck to me where I'm like, you know what, once you're all in, my lady I was with at the time,

who was my wife now, at one point she asked me, how long are you going to do this acting? Because you could be broke. And I had to really look at her like, that's a legitimate question, baby. Get off, get off really look at her like that's a legitimate question, baby. But get off, get off, get off me. That's a legitimate question, baby.

But here's the real question. It's not how long I'm going to be an actor because that's it, I'm all in. I can make it or not, but I love this feeling. It's how long do you want to be fucking with an actor? That's a question you have to ask yourself. Now, if you say, you know, I'm in, cool.

If you say no, I understand. I'm going to be mad. I'm going to you say you know I'm in cool if you say no I understand I'm gonna be mad I'm gonna be hurt but I'm gonna move on and I don't want to but it's a question you have to ask yourself

but you turned it on her which is interesting because no no what you were saying is like I love you but this is more important than you

not more important but this is what I choose to do okay and I guess you know and this is where you have relationships issues

where you think about like you're asking somebody look come along on my dream I don't know what you're doing right now I don You know And this is where You have relationships Issues Where you think about Like you're asking somebody Come along on my dream I don't know what You're doing right now I don't know what You want to be But if you're hanging with me

I want to be an actor Yeah And those days She would come home And I'm on the playstation Like yo what's up baby Yo what's for lunch Listen I sold the

Mary J Blige CD I got rid of that So we can get this Fucking pizza For the you know The guys came over You know And she would be like

This mother You know What the fuck What the fuck is going on over, you know, and she would be like, this mother, you know, what the fuck, what the fuck is going on? Thank God you made it because, yes, thank God.

If you, because if you, if you start to lose your faith in your, in your desired profession, that's right, then you're gonna have to answer to her for the rest of your,

well, not answer to her because she'd be gone. Maybe, or she would be like, I'm done with this shit and clearly you don't have it, so you better go find

something to do. That's right, so I wouldn't have to answer to her,'ll be gone i'll be sitting there like steve martin the jerk in the box like yo what do i have yeah so the theater thing though that that's interesting to me but in in terms of outside of just putting your going all in yeah did you have to learn how to listen did you have to learn like you know what you know what were the exercises that you went through because you know you're a natural performer i mean i've talked to a lot of actors and you're you're a lot more lively on the inside than some of them right they took a lot of

punishment the closed doors and the the imdb fucking chart punishes a lot of actors but they get they get dead inside no i don't know i think sometimes they're they're they're reserved or they have to save it they They're empty vessels. A lot of times, it's not even a negative thing, but I think there are some people that are great actors that are not complicated. They don't have a lot of mess going on upstairs, and I'm not saying you have a lot of mess. I don't know what a compliment is right now. It's coming. It's coming.

All right, good, good. You are an authentic character yourself. Yes. Okay. So what you're going to bring to a role is going to be some version of this fire that you've got inside you. Which is good and bad. Yeah.

It's good and bad. Sure. It limits the roles. Yes. You had to relearn how to be organically present. It would seem like, yes, you had to learn how to listen. Not be there like, I know what I want to do. I know what I want to do.

It's coming. Hurry up with your line. I'm going to say this line this way, and it's going to be magic. I don't even care about the characters. So the character's supposed to be this way. I'm going to say it this way. You have to learn how to implement who you are without it taking away from who you're playing. Right.

And also taking away from necessarily the show itself. Yeah, the story. I mean, because a ham's a ham. A ham's show itself. Yeah, the story. I mean, because a ham's a ham. A ham's a ham. Well, you know what? On theater, I love it. On the movie game, they can get rid of that ham.

A couple of cuts and all of a sudden the ham is gone, whether you know it or not. That's right. I look at a movie like this. I have four more scenes. What the fuck happened? What happened to my scene? What happened to the good one? Yeah.

This is the only one they got? That's another thing about the process in film and television that blew me away, to realize that it's not in your control. Once you put it in the can, your job is done, but your job is really done. All they care about is coverage. Yeah. And then they're like, they want to have a lot to work with in the editing room. That's right.

You're better off on an indie film where it's like, we only got three takes. We only got three. You got two takes, and I'll save them on the editing room. That's right. You're better off on an indie film where it's like, we only got three takes. You got two takes and I'll save them. And then, you know, it was strangely enough, you know,

you do, you know, in the film and TV world, you do, I would do a scene or I'll do a monologue or a moment beautifully. People crying

and then somebody come up like, yeah, a bunch of collars inside out. Oh, you had the drink in the wrong hand Yeah, yeah, I'm sorry That would drive me crazy. Yes, and then blizer fuck you fuck you all up

And then I realized you know the way we used to laugh it back in the day We used to laugh at movie and TV actors like y'all aren't real Yeah, we have to give them a lot more compliment because again like you said you got to do it five times Professional yeah, and you got to do it You know and it might not be about you. You might have just, that whole scene might be fucked up. Yeah. Because Pop forgot to put the hammer back on the desk.

You know, he was just like, what the fuck? It's my world. But when you did theater, what were some of the roles that like, you know, where, like did you do Broadway? Never got to Broadway. When I started doing theater, Broadway was all singing and dancing and cats, and I wasn't... No, you never done any of that?

I never did any of that. I did, like, Broadway for the 24-hour plays. They have these little celebrity 24-hour plays at the American Airlines Theater on Broadway, but never got to Broadway. But what were some of the roles that you played off-Broadway that you were like, this is the shit? I mean, were you ever cast completely against type

where it was so challenging that, you know, you had to shut down? I mean, were you ever cast completely against type where it was so challenging that you had to shut down? I guess, yeah. I mean, I played this one thing called Happy Pills where I played this real bipolar, mentally disturbed, depressed, suicidal man who had to find himself before he killed himself. Shit like that, again, on stage with no music and no close-up. And you just really have to implement, you know, your thought process and get it out there. It was challenging.

The experience was always something phenomenal and something, like, life-altering because you was doing it, like, seven days a week. Yeah. And trying to keep it fresh and new every time. Yeah. Presented his own challenges. And it was amazing. It was amazing. And then she got pregnant. And I was like i gotta pay a bill gotta pay a bill let's go to film and television right away my picture my my photograph in the cleaners doesn't mean shit i need real

how many kids you got i got one one daughter is that it that's that's gonna be it i think so man it's hard you grew up only child i grew up only child. I grew up only child, so I don't know. Nobody knows what we're missing. We're just living it. It's our world. Yeah. But, yeah, this is probably, you know, the most, it's the hardest challenge. And then looking at it every once in a while

when you're having a Jack and Coke, like this is the most important thing in the world. What, the Jack and Coke? Well is the most important thing in the world. What, the Jack and Coke? Well, yes, at that time, yes. But just having a kid, having a child, all of a sudden you have this thing that you are creating and you are in charge of and you are implementing

everything that you think you know and trying to create a being or help establish a being to go on and live. It's daunting. It's. And it's daunting. It's daunting. It's scary. And right now my daughter's 16

and I've always heard parents talk about, you know, 16 is a hard age and I'm getting a lot of feedback from my daughter, a lot of shit talking

and everything. But I think what's scaring me the most is I feel like I'm running out of time. And that's what parents look at. They look at that kid

like the mirror like, oh shit, she's six. Did I teach her everything? Yeah. Does she know everything or did I just fuck this up? How old is she now? 16. Oh man.

I'm running out of time. She only got like two years left. No, you're out of time. I'm done. Don't say that. Fuck. Okay, then I might have another kid. This is when you look at her like this.

Okay, now that I know what not to do, let me get another shot at this. No, she's 16. It's all, all the wiring has been put in. Oh, man. You're going to have to hope for the best now. I got to hope.

And when she makes mistakes, you got to be there to go like, it's okay, baby. It's my fault. At the end of the day, it's my fault. And there's one asshole guy like, I'll rewire her, Dad. Yeah. That's what I got to look forward to now, the hot wire dude. Well, yeah. Well, I mean, you know, being a hot wire dude or having been that yourself.

Yes. You know they're going to come. Sins of the father. Sins they're gonna father how about you any kids no did you that on purpose did you like pull out like national i am a big puller outer but uh but uh no i had a i i was married twice i didn't have kids it was not a priority for me somehow okay i guess i'm just too selfish or i didn't think i could start you start shaking while you're talking. I know, man. There's part of me that thinks I should have done it, but I think that things happen for a reason. That's right. I'm a very anxious guy.

That's right. I'm a very panicky guy. Things get a little out of hand for me pretty quickly. I think you should be honored. There was one comedian I heard, his name was Dove something. I don't know. David Off. Dove?

Dove David Off, yeah. He had a, what do you call it? You guys, you remind me of him. What do you call that thing when you go up there? A set. He had a set

and he said, you know, national pullout day. Those guys should be, those guys who know that they're not ready for parenthood and they pull out,

they should be rewarded too. They should be celebrated because they're our own heroes are not having too many asshole kids running around. That's right. So I celebrate you, sir. Well, thank you very much.

There should be a date. Thank you very much. Maybe this date is the date. Every day is our day. That's when we talk to you guys. We're going, I hope I did it right. I hope I did it. Yo, I pulled out, yes.

So, yeah. So, yeah, one kid is cool. I'm having a good time. I'm having a good time with her. I'm learning a lot. Hopefully, I'm teaching a lot. And it's fun to watch her and see. She's a good time I'm having a good time with her I'm learning a lot hopefully I'm teaching a lot and it's it's fun to watch her

and see she's a good kid yeah I think you know these kids they seem different these kids seem like a lot more connected

to who they are yeah and what their worth is right you know I'm seeing so many they're less like caring they seem a little more free

they're more well adjusted yeah either that or they're so or they're they're twisted genius carrying, they seem a little more free. They're more well-adjusted. Yeah. Either that or they're twisted geniuses where they say, you know what? I'm not built for that world, so I'm going to create this new world where I don't got to talk to nobody. I can just tweet them. I can just Instagram. I can create-

Just text. I can create different characters for different people. Yeah. And I think that's what they're doing. They're building this world where they say, you know what? It looks like you guys with all your interaction, you're telling us we should do this, this, and this. You got the world fucked up. It's not like all your actions got this world in a great place.

So how about we do this? We're going to make it different. And if you don't get it, you don't get it. But it's more social media. Yeah. It's a whole new thing. They're more connected but less connected. Exactly.

It's weird. And it might be a good thing. It might save the planet. We'll see. We'll see. I're more connected but less connected. Exactly. It's weird. And it might be a good thing. It might save the planet. We'll see. We'll see. I don't know. I have no idea. Old ways die hard.

They do die hard. Yes. Yes. All right. So you did a lot of television. I mean, when you decided you were going to do television, you did television. I did. I did a lot of New York television.

I did. Law and Order. Every Law and Order. That's saying every black actor. Law and Order was a staple to every black actor. I was the... That was the first time I did I did the Rat Frank, like I know who did it. Yeah, yeah.

And they loved the way I pointed, and they were like this. All right, law and order, law and order SVU, law and order criminal intent, and it's the same character. Same character, different orange jumpsuit. I know who did it. No, that dude right there. I got you, yo. All of them.

And New York Undercover. Yeah. And I did that. My first TV job was Law and Order, where the girl to this black dude that was a cop that was going to the HB Studios and got me a job. I was an extra in the courtroom. And I knew I was going to be a big, big, big star because I was the extra in the courtroom. And when they said, you know, he's guilty, I was like, well, I'm not.

Everybody's just doing the same. I jumped up. Oh, my God. God. And walked out. And the director was like, what are you doing? And I was like, well, shouldn't somebody be mad at me? Like, I'm just macting.

And they're like, okay, go back in the holding. You, go back in the holding. But the guy, I forgot the actor's name the black dude who got me a job I told him and he was like this you did the right thing fuck don't be an extra no more

don't be an extra no more nothing wrong with it but it doesn't suit you yeah and I realized okay that's right I need bigger I need bigger

I need to talk and you know then after that it was like I think my law and order law and order again because they would recycle us

yeah you know and they would just one day I was you know per think my law and order again, because they would recycle us. Yeah. You know, and they would just, one day I was, you know, perp number one, and the next day I was. But did you have the same sort of aggravation that some other black actors have? It's like, how do I get out of this? Not at that time. Yeah.

No, because, you know, I would say now, you know, I was more stereotyped as unemployed than I was as convict number two. Right. So convict number two was okay. Right. Only after like about maybe about a year and a half did you go like this. Okay, I don't want to be in jail no more. I don't want to go to jail.

I don't want to come out of jail. And I don't want to be in jail already. Give me something else. And they were like, no. Like, no. You know, I didn't realize that, you know, a lot of actors out there doing theater and doing off-Broadway, understand there's a certain freedom to that because your money is coming from another place.

So that you can say, I'm not doing that part. I'll do that part. Oh, I'll do this. Because you didn't care. But once you start paying bills with acting, you say no until you have to say yes. You say no until your daughter's like, Dad, my shoes are too tight. Or also a casting director going, he's difficult.

He's difficult. He say no, you say no three times. He'll say, Dad, my shoes are too tight. Or also a casting director going, he's difficult. He's difficult. He say no? You say no three times. Next? Next? Don't even call him. Where's Nick Cannon? Where's Leland Steele? Next? Come on. Move on. And so you get to a point where, of course, you say I want to do something.

The Wire, I love the fact that people really embrace this show. Well, that was a career-changing turn for you. Everything. I mean, like, once I locked into that thing, because I came to it later. I didn't watch it when it was on. It required too much attention.

When it was on, it's like you miss one episode, and I'm like, where? Where are we? What's going on? My subtitle thing is not working. I don't understand what these fucking black people are saying. I need a subtitle. Well, it wasn't that.

It was just that you really had to start at the beginning like a book. That's right, yeah. And I sat there for like two weeks and I watched the entire fucking thing. Like, I got it all. Rented it. And it's interesting, the character of Bubbles

is really the only fucking character in the entire city that changes for the better. Like, the only guy that, you know, at the end of everything, after all is said and done, you're like, that guy, he's all right.

That guy, he made it. Look, he's having dinner with his sister. Right. Yeah. But I don't remember any of the characters evolving to it. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm trying to remember. But your character, from where you were at the beginning, this spineless junkie.

Well, I was never spineless. I don't know if spineless is the word. Well, you needed to dope, so you did what you had to do. Yeah. This spineless junkie. Well, I was never spineless. I don't know if spineless is the wrong word. Well, you need the dope, so you did what you had to do. Yes, yes, yes. It takes a lot of courage. Yeah. But your character

is really the way they closed the series in my memory. Yeah. Was that the one guy that was sort of pivotal in all this stuff and sort of the eyes

of the world on some level who was really the most tragic character in some ways personally, was able to transcend that. It was emotionally devastating. Again, what's great about David Simon and the creators of the show

and just the audience being drawn into the show and these characters, what's great about hearing you say that is our expectation. Because if you look at it, you just said, you know, my character seems to have gotten, you know,

was the arc and gotten better only because of everything that I've been through, that character's been through. The way David Simon ended it was, you didn't see me as president. You didn't see me having a fucking CEO job. Right.

You saw me go upstairs and have a dinner with my sister. I'm getting shocked I'm thinking about it. Yeah. That's's small she wouldn't let you in the house that's super let me in and all she did was open that door and since that reward was so little but poignant it made it feel like bubbles has changed like we don't know season six I'll probably be a junkie again sure who knows yeah but just seeing that small step I think we all look at people in ourselves as you as we haven't made it or we're not successful unless we have this big thing.

But it's these little victories that are important to embrace. Connecting it to my daughter, you try so hard for perfection that you forget to enjoy the good. You forget to enjoy the excellence. You're always thinking about more and more. You could have did better. You could have did get to enjoy the excellence. You're always thinking about more and more. You could have did better. You could have did better. Yeah, yeah.

You got 99? Yeah. What the fuck? Was you sleeping on that one? As bad. Sleeping on that one. Did you go back and double check?

You're so happy you finished the test you just handed it in, right? At 99? No double check. Come on. You know, so yeah. So, you know,

it was a great experience and even now it's still a great experience because a lot of people got to it late and we, you know, the DVD and the on-demand really has... Well, it changes and even now, it's still a great experience because a lot of people got to it late. And the DVD and the on-demand really has people. Well, it changes everything. Yeah, it has people coming to me now or different countries or whatever saying, hey, bub, bub, bub.

Third season of The Wire, I had a meltdown. Third season, I was like, oh, my God, if I got to get high or if I got to be sleeping in the row house again. The junkie thing got to me. Why? Because it was exhausting? Exhausting. It's not a great head space. You know, if you're acting and this is a thing that you know is a career changer.

Like, I felt the weight of, this is the first time I've been in character. And people, you know, it means something. I stayed in. I did that Daniel Day-Lewis shit, like, to a extent. I didn't go Heath Ledger. But I was in character. And, you know, I was in oneis shit to a extent. I didn't go Heath Ledger, but I was in character. I was in one bedroom apartment with a mattress, laying around trying to stay connected to that lifestyle.

All the rest of my castmates are hanging out, partying, drinking champagne, and being drug dealers. It was hard. Then you start to fear, is this the box I'm putting myself into? Career-wise? Yeah, for black actors, you know, a junkie or playing a homosexual, they were like career death. Right, right.

You're not going to work again. Right. And you start thinking about that like, oh my God, what am I doing? Yeah. So I had a meltdown, and you know, there's certain actors like Sam Jackson who just came in and embraced me and was like, yo, shut the? So I had a meltdown. And there were certain actors like Sam Jackson who just came in and embraced me

and was like, yo, shut the fuck up. During your meltdown? Yeah. Where did he come in? Well, when you're not shooting, I would go and go to different... You were hanging out with him? Yeah, I bumped into him.

One of our directors, Clark Johnson, was directing SWAT. And he was like, yo, why don't you come to LA? Come hang out, come eat set. I came to set and Sam Jackson, like, one of our directors, Clark Johnson, was directing SWAT and he was like, yo, why don't you come to LA? Come hang out. Come to the set. I came to the set and Sam Jackson was like,

first time I really met him, met him, he was like, gave me a hug and was like, yo, you're doing a great job and I'm talking to Sam Jackson

and he said I'm doing a great job. I know his past. If I convince him, this is fucking Gator. If I convince him, this is great. And then, you know,

I got a chance to feel, you know, he kind of, he had that kind of personality where you felt like you can talk to him what'd you say to him just say yo man this what do i do after this like this you know this this heroin addict and i i feel like i'm in a box like people only see me this in this one way yeah and he was like wait wait so you're complaining because they know your name and they know your character like i've been in 100 movies with people that they don't know who they are. They've been in 100. Shut the fuck up. You have an iconic character

that people will always remember you by because of what you did and how you played it. You can't complain. All you can do is you keep doing what you do and every character you get, whether it's the same or not, you bring your A game and sooner or later, it'll change.

But other than that shut the fuck up and i was like well all right well give me tarantino's number and hook me up motherfucker yeah yeah but he seems like he'll do just about anything now he's a cool yeah he's a cool well anything is better than what he used to do that's right so yeah he will he will stay working that's right yeah and that's important that's important and it just so what happened on the show though so you have this meltdown did you approach the creators and say like you know

no I never approached you know you never approached the money I wasn't that creative I didn't have that much of a meltdown

I didn't like flip out on the set I just had like a little depression anxiety and depression and just talked to other actors but this is before you knew how that character

would turn out yes and then when I found out again another crazy like almost just weird sabotage or whatever or just or uh or authenticity i don't know i don't even know the right word for it but towards the fifth season you know i had to sit down with the creator of this show because i felt the real bubbles passed away it was a little bubs he was

a formant for one of the creators of the show ed burns who was a cop and he passed and bubbles passed away of aids and when i found out that i was might live i felt like it was unfair i was like we're known our show is known for being great for often for being authentic being real and we're playing these real characters i don't feel this i think it's a little unfair that my character lived now i don't want to cut my money but at that time i'm like you know what is this right are we doing the right thing yeah david simon's great david simon was like you know at the end of the day i've just i've just dragged these people on the audience to look at a piece of of our world with this dark depressed nothing's ever going to change mentality yeah motherfuckers

gotta get out of the bed there's gotta be some sort of hope there's gotta be some some glimpse and it's all we need as people and that's and you're it and bubs was it and bubs was the one that said you know what let's just let him go have a wing dinner with his fucking sister let him go let him go eat that's hope enough that's hope enough and you said it right yeah for you it was like oh my god look at Bob he's on the stairs yeah and you know

but you know but there was moments where I felt that was unfair there was moments where I felt like to the memory of the real guy

yes to the memory of the real guy because shooting in Baltimore was so phenomenal and you know I'm chasing the dragon now

when you look for different shows for the there's never gonna be I don't so far there's never been a show or an never been a show or an experience doing a show

when everything was just so incredible. Like the actors, there was no ego. Everybody was like, hey, I know you, I kind of know you. Everybody was starting. It was like everybody's brand new start. That never really happens on TV. There's got to be a star first.

Right. But everybody's brand new. Then you're in Baltimore on location. There was no sets. They'd rip open the row house and like, okay, clean it up a little bit all right fuck it bob just going going you know i i did one scene with real filth yeah i'm one scene where i'm crawling on on a roof and i got stuck with a needle because it's there get the fuck out of here i'm like oh shit okay can you finish the scene we got we got medic right there just finish the scene i'm like oh shit like

and then you gotta go get an h10 you're-10. You gotta get shot and all that stuff. And then David Simon was smart where whoever you were doing a scene with, there were real life personas around you. Like if I'm doing a scene where I'm doing something, there's a real recovered or junkie around. Yeah. Or you're a gangbanger, there's a real gangbanger playing. Well you got Steve Earle, he's a real recovered junkie. Real dude. Yeah. Or were you a gangbanger? There's a real gangbanger playing, you know. Well, you got Steve Earle.

He's a real recovery champion. He's a real dude. Yeah. Funny about him, that kept accountability was I didn't know who he was. Right. Right? And I go to, you know, I'm having a good time. Like, yo, I'm killing it, boy.

Who's my scene partner today? Who am I working with? And they point out Steve Earle. And I'm like this, who the fuck is that? Like, that dude? I don't want my scene fucked up. Like, I want my scene to work and we do a blocking rehearsal

and he couldn't walk and say his line. Yeah. Like he would stop and forget. Yeah. And I'm like this, oh my God, oh my God,

I got to carry this fucking scene. Yeah. He's fucked. And David Simon was like, do you know who that is? I'm like, nah, I know he's a guy

who don't know how to fucking say his line. That's what I know. And he's like, okay, okay. And he bought, like he had somebody bring over, oh, it's in a box full of CDs what I know. And he's like, okay. Okay. And he had somebody bring over, oh, it's in a box full of CDs.

I didn't know he had like about 40 CDs. He's like the Bob Dylan of someone. And I'm like, this is that dude? And I'm playing it, I'm listening, and I'm like, oh my God. So I go to him now, I'm like this. How am I doing? Am I doing okay?

Do you believe me? Did I do too much shaking here? And he's a great dude. Yeah, he is. And it was beautiful. It was beautiful. Believe me, did I do too much shaking here? And, you know, we had, he's a great dude. Yeah, he is. And it was beautiful. It was beautiful. I can't imagine the two of you together

because he's a talker. He's a, we had a good time. Yeah, yeah. We had a good time like this. Cut. You want to say the lines now? Guys,

can we get up? Yeah. And I went to a couple of his concerts. Oh, yeah. He's a great dude, man. He is a good dude. So, now, after you do The Wire,

like, it's weird because when I saw you at the Independent Spirit Awards, I'm like, that's the fucking dude. And so I don't do that too often, but it did happen on the subway in New York with another dude, you know the dude who played the guy who opened the gym?

Cuddy. Cuddy. I saw him on the subway, and I'm like, oh, fuck that's that guy. Yeah, yeah. And I'm like, I gotta say something. And he's like, no, don't bother me. And I'm like, no, no, I mean,

it's gonna feel good. Yes, and that's one thing I love, that we, you know, as actors or people in the business, you're waiting for somebody to walk up to you like this. You do. Yeah, oh, dickhead. You ain't all that. What are you doing now, homie?

But our audience, the Y audience, it feels like they love coming up. I was wondering, you were great. He seemed to really appreciate it. He's a good guy. Of course, we love it. We love it. We understand, you know, that our show meant something. Right.

And in the middle of it, while we were shooting, nobody was really watching. So we never knew. Nobody was really watching. And then every awards season, we're like this. Really? Boston legal? Really? We can't get a fucking slot?

Can we not? We couldn't even go have a free champagne and get a fucking swag bag. That's all we wanted. We didn't want to win. We just wanted to get a swag bag giving out fucking CDs and iPods yeah um but yeah you know people will come up to us and and and really celebrate their experience and watching the show now what about now how in in the in the long run here how your parents feel about

your your stuff my parents parents, you know, my parents are great. I mean, they, my mom was mad when, she's so funny because she was happy I booked the job. She's like, oh, finally, my son,

you know, because they get a sense of relief that their son's going to be okay. Right. It's really a fear of security. Yes, right. And now, you got a job.

Yeah, yeah, I'm playing the junkie. What? Yeah, yeah. They said that I didn't look like Bubz, but I had the essence and it was she was like are they insulting me my son did not the essence of a fucking heroin addict well I'm on this exact thing exactly so it's

you know she was great and she's always shocked like we went you know Barack Obama I met him at a prog and he was like what's up bubs you know and see you know see what she was it's great it's. The president knows you. And she was, it's great, it's great. And she was very happy to see that I did something or I was part of something that means so much to other people. And then at the same time, like we were talking about before, we get crazy sidetracked, is that, yeah, am I going through a certain thing right now

where I'm known as this dude and it's hard to see me in a in a love scene right right now somebody going hey look at bubs getting some ass you know i mean every time i pop up on screen it's a blessing and a curse where people will go there go bubs yeah and you want to be able to you know give respect to somebody else who's casting you and not distract from their story and be you know looked at different character. Right. And it's harder when you're known or you do a character so well. Yeah. To do, you know.

But also just getting out of that, the world of, I mean, not only bubs, but the world of perps. That's right. The whole thing. You know, going to jail, coming out of jail, being in jail. Yeah. But, you know, you're an attractive guy. I think so.

Yeah. So what has been going on out here with that? Well, now, you know, and it takes a long time. And again, you say yes, you say no until you have to. But now I just booked a, I just shot a pilot with Ron Perlman called The Hand of God on Amazon. Which is another thing for actors that is great. It's breaking up. There's so many ways.

So The Hand of God, Amazon. It's an Amazon series. I play the mayor. I play Ron Perlman an Amazon series. I play the mayor. I play Ron Perlman's best friend, and I play the mayor. I got a little corrupt tendencies. They guarantee me I'm not going to be smoking crack like Mary and Barry by season three. That's not going to happen. But it's a different look.

It's a different feel. And this movie, The Spectacular Now. Oh, yeah, that got really good. It was a genre change. Yeah, it was at Sundance. I didn't see it. It was great. Really,

really good. Really, really good. Another movie that, we grew up in a world of The Breakfast Club and Say Anything and Fast Time

and Ritz-Mann High. You can't really mess with this genre. It's been done a billion times. How do you make it new? And Spectacular Now kind of made it new

and relevant to these kids and really kind of great and I play a teacher. Okay. And only because one of the producers, and this always happens now, which is a good thing,

it's getting better, is that somebody will see a character and go, hey, you know, what about the bubs? And at first, they laugh.

What, the junkie? Come on. No, I love him. And then they're like this. Well, I do love him. Hey, maybe. Let's see him. And then when I go in,

they go, oh, see, you don't look like, you're not, you know. You're not real drunk. You got nice clothes on. Yeah. You got your four chimes on again. You know, after the first season. Yeah.

You know, I would go to HBO parties, which is great, and all the HBO fights. Sure. They allow you to go and all that stuff. And, you know, Mark Wahlberg was the first celebrity that I remember that came up to me and was dead like, and Marcus was kind of an intense dude. He is, yeah. Cool as hell, intense. But they had me at the buffet table eating. Hey yo, you got a good job now.

Yo, clean up your act, don't go back. You're really good at what you do. So yo, this is a different moment. I'm like, what are you thinking, man? He's like, you're not a junkie? I'm like, no I'm not a fuck, I'm an actor. I grew up in New junkie? I'm like, no, I'm not a fucker. I'm an actor. I grew up in New York. And he's like, oh, man, yo, I swear to God,

I thought they grabbed you off the street of Baltimore. I'm like, nah, motherfucker, nah. But, you know, people really thought. Did he think that then he'd say, like, you're even better than I thought you were? No, he's like, yo, just don't go. I don't know. I don't know how you're doing it. If you're taking a little hit, I don't know.

But, you know, people, and again, that's a compliment. It's an amazing compliment. Yeah, I think it's phenomenal. But you got to make again that's a that's a compliment and i and it's an amazing compliment yeah i think it's phenomenal but you got to make sure that the studios don't think that i'm a fucking insurance risk well that's the interesting thing about it always baffles me too about the media landscape now is that people a lot even intelligent people cannot tell the difference between reality and fiction like there's this weird gray area where something is so gritty or so real they like assume like just because of the way everything works now like that guy's gotta be a real guy what the

fuck are you talking about yeah again movie magic medium you know i'm in everybody's living room every sunday right and people will come up to me like i'm on a train like either they think i'm a real character or they think i'm like if i ride the train in new york you know i fall asleep it's a long ass ride people are, either he's high or, what'd you do? Where's your money? What happened to you? Why are you on the train?

It's the fastest way in the city to get around. No, no, no, come on, man. You ain't got the Lamborghini. No, I don't know what's his HBO. It's not Network. But it's quite crazy. I don't know why the fuck people don't,

I can't stand people that don't take the train in New York. Can't stand it. It's the best. You do feel like cattle. There's certain days you do. Who cares? But it's like my manager's like, we're going to take a cab seven blocks. Get out of your fucking it. It's the best. You do feel like cattle. There's certain days you do. Who cares?

But it's like my manager's like, we're going to take a cab seven blocks. Get out of your fucking mind. That's a beast. It's ridiculous. You don't like Uber? You're not an Uber guy? No, but Uber, I don't care. It's like I don't want to be stuck in a fucking car in New York City no matter what.

Well, I will say I got to disagree with you. I like the idea of having the train, but if you ask me, like, do I prefer being stuck when that fucking train stops? We'll be moving shortly. No, I know, I know. We'll be moving shortly.

Or stuck in traffic with my fucking radio and my air conditioning. I hear you. I hear you. I'll take the 405 traffic over stuck in the F train when everything shuts down.

Well, as much as I love the train, it's one of the reasons I left. You know, at some point, you get tired, it's one of the reasons I left. At some point, you get tired of having a guy right here. Right there. What's happening? I gotta go. Not that guy again. Every morning with that guy.

He still got a little distance with his shit. So, again, New York, you just like the opportunity and the advantages of having options. Yeah. Especially when you're saying that you don't drink no more and all that stuff. When you get fucked up in L.A., you're in trouble.

Yeah. You better get a car. You got to get a car, and that's real expensive. From Beverly Hills to Highland Park, oh, now you better have some money. Yeah, yeah. You're not getting behind the wheel. You got to protect yourself. In New York, you got the train. You got, yeah. You're not getting behind the wheel. Yeah, you just got to protect yourself. In New York, you got the train.

You got the bus. You got a cab. They'll get mad at you. They'll get mad. You know. Yeah, so what? You jump out the yellow cab. No disrespect, guys, but they didn't want to drop us off.

So every once in a while, we'd just be like, yeah, drop me off right here. Well, I'm glad you're doing well, man. Thank you, man. It's an honor talking to you. I appreciate it. I had a great time. Wow. well man thank you man it's an honor talking to you i appreciate it had a great time wow right what a great guy what a great conversation i i was buzzed for three hours after i talked to him uh i hope you enjoyed that go to wtfpod.com for all your wtf pod needs get some merch christmas presents whatever you got to do.

Enjoy. Read the blog. Leave a comment. Do what you got to do. Get that app. Listen to Leslie Jones. She's something else, man. Yeah, get the free app and upgrade and you can stream all the stuff.

Oh, my God. Enough plugging. Enough plugging. Right? What are we doing? Is this a tradition now yeah guitar solo Thank you. guitar solo Thank you. I think that was a little indulgent. Boomer lives! It's winter, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats.

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