WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 548 - Jimmy Vivino

Episode Date: November 5, 2014

Jimmy Vivino is the current bandleader on Conan, but during his two decades with the various incarnations of Conan O'Brien's late night shows, Jimmy has also served as an unofficial guitar mentor to Marc Maron. Now Marc brings Jimmy into the garage to learn more about Jimmy's life and career in which he's crossed paths with music royalty like Keith Richards, Chuck Berry, Bob Dylan, Levon Helm, Muddy Waters, Phil Spector and more. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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5pm in Rock City at TorontoRock.com Lock the gate! Alright, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers, what the fuck buddies, what the fucking ears, what the fucksters, what the fucking hand palace guards? How are you?

Mark Maron. This is my show. This is WTF. Today, Jimmy Vivino is on the show. Jimmy Vivino is very important to me. Jimmy is the guitar player of the basic cable band and uh on the Conan O'Brien show he's been playing on the Conan O'Brien show since the beginning of the Conan O'Brien show but he is the band leader on the current configuration before he was playing under the uh the leadership of max

weinberg the reason he's important to me is that i play guitar most of my life oh boy so yeah i was eight or nine when i first started taking guitar lessons and at that point i was playing a big old weird acoustic harmony guitar that my dad used to own. And I was certainly no savant. I was no prodigy. Is that what it is? Yeah, I was, you know, me and my brother would play and we'd sing and we'd time out the amount of songs we had to play to get through the practices that my mother made us do. I think we played Johnny B. Goode.

I think we played Country Roads. I think we played Johnny B. Goode. I think we played Country Roads. I think we played, what was the other one? Rocky Raccoon. Stuff that we could get through and stuff that was simple. But nonetheless, guitar has been part of my life for most of my life. And Jimmy is a great guitar player. Now, I'll come back around to Jimmy. Now, here's the deal with me and guitar playing. I was in a couple of bands that knew three songs. I never was in a band that played a real gig or that had a real set list. I've never been any good at figuring out songs. I've never had the focus or the attention to figure out songs.

It wasn't until I learned a few scales from a teacher, Vaughn McMillan, back in Albuquerque. But I think I feel like I've told you all this. The point is, I've never been a guy that's had that much confidence on the guitar. I've never understood until very lately, until recently in the last few years, that you play with feeling and if you're proficient enough, you can put something together for yourself. I always judge myself against other people. I always thought I was just okay. And I think I am just okay. But I never put a band together. And oddly, it's one of the only regrets I have in my life is not really indulging or engaging in my passion to play music. I've done a little for you. But during my, you know, one of my many appearances on the old Conan show. And I just would talk to him about guitars. And then he, at one point he

said, do you want me to, you want a guitar to fool around with? I'm like, hell yeah. So he gave me one of his beautiful old guitars and he's a guy with a lot of guitars and, you know, and I play it and I was like, thank you. And then he started he started like when i do the show he'd show me a couple riffs you know he'd show me a couple licks and like he was just starting to open my brain up a little more to playing because i never learned new things i'd always just sort of improvise and do my own thing i knew a few scales i could feel around but he actually opened my brain up to to as a grown man to learn guitar you know to to sort of feel it in in you know you know he would just it almost be like he'd dole out these licks as soon as i could handle them like he would just show me little tricks mostly blues licks when i do conan and and then it got to this point where

every time i do conan there was an amp and a guitar waiting in my dressing room for me just to fuck off and then he'd come in and we'd talk a little bit about blues or about players and about stuff and then he'd uh i'd go well show me that thing show me a new thing and he'd show me a new thing so on some level jimmy's been giving me guitar lessons for the past 10 years very very spontaneously and sporadically maybe two or three times a year, but he's been giving me guitar lessons. And every time he would show me what the real guy was doing,

whether it be Freddie King or Albert King or Peter Green or whoever, I was sort of like studying at the time. He'd show me how it's really done. He'd show me some tricks. I think recently we talked about vibrato a little bit. I have innate ability to pull down on the vibrato, and that sounds good, but to actually make some deliberate choices about pushing up on vibrato.

I hope this isn't boring anybody. But the thing is that Jimmy is a great player. He's got a record out, Jimmy Favino and the Black Italians, 13 live. You can get the record. You can go right to his site. You can go to JimmyVivino.com. He's just a great player. He's played with everybody.

This is an amazing conversation. It was amazing for me to really talk to a guy who is a session player. He's a background player. He's a backup musician. And that's all he ever wanted to be, and he's been doing it all his life. And lately, I don't really buy guitars i you know i've had i've gotten a few as gifts i've recently bought an acoustic guitar that i like i've had a couple of guitars most of my life and the exciting thing for me is that and this is some this is tangible to me and it's not tangible to me

necessarily in in any other part of my life look i know that i've gotten more comfortable with myself i know that as a stand-up and as a broadcaster and and as what i do here i have obviously i've obviously grown into it and i've become uh comfortable here and it's it's i'm doing the best work i've ever done in my chosen fields, be it comedy or podcasting here. But with guitar, I know for a fact that I've learned how to become a better player in the last few years just because I've learned for a fact that I've always liked to just play guitar to get out of myself and to meditate almost and to just kind of noodle.

Sometimes when I'm watching TV, I'll just sit there and I'll run finger exercises for no reason other than to do it, to keep vital, to keep at it. And because of Jimmy and because of some of the doors he's provided for me with just very small things, man. You know, I mean, just like little little tricks you know he's just opened me up to know that i can learn and continue to to try to make the instrument my own as best i can but like i am so hard on myself and i i know that some of you other people have this experience with almost anything it could be it's just you have these expectations compared to what you know like what do i really expect out of what if i can't be a virtuoso or great guitar but it's just you have these expectations compared to what you know like what do i really expect out of what if i can't be a virtuoso or great guitar but it's like if i can play with

some feeling for my own purposes good yeah i should probably record more of it but but jimmy was important because of that and i did get a new guitar recently i did i did i it took me two years to to talk um to get gibson to get behind me you know and give me a 335 it took a few years and a 335 is a beautiful fucking guitar and i never thought i would have a guitar like this and i never thought i would feel a guitar like this. And I never thought I would feel a guitar like this. And I never thought that I earned a guitar like this, that I should have one. This guitar, I almost swept with it the other night. You know, I'm not going to lie to you. I almost swept with it.

I'm not really that guy. Like I said, I'm not a guitar wizard or anything, but I almost swept with this guitar. I got it. It's a vintage Sunburst 335. And I still don't think I deserve this guitar. I just don't. And I fucking love it.

It feels like it's got some weight to it. I'm sitting here holding it. I'm not even doing it justice because you can't see me. I'm just sitting here holding it and i i'm not even doing it justice because you can't see me i'm just sitting here holding this guitar oh i'm just gonna end up like you know saving some money and uh and stopping this and just you know playing small gigs playing some weird song list of songs i like and maybe a couple i've written when i wrote it. You'll be the first to hear my songs if I write them, if I have the courage to do it.

I'm surprised I have the courage to play for you at the end of these shows. But anyways, we're going to talk to Jimmy Vivino, and I just wanted to really talk about how important he was in my life. Look, I've gone on and off in my life where I didn't play guitar as regularly as I do now, but I do it now for my sanity. know not to prove anything to anybody but you know it's one of the few things

I really enjoy and I really enjoyed talking to Jimmy thrilled right now to uh to share with the with you um my conversation with Jimmy Vivino from the Basic Cable Band. So listen. Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+. We live and we die. We control nothing beyond that.

An epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life. When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series streaming February 27th exclusively on Disney+. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth

at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton. The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5 p.m. in Rock City at torontorock.com. Joy. I didn't know that, you know, someone just told me that your brother is Uncle Floyd.

Only people. We're not recording yet, right? Sure we are. Oh, only people who are really from the. Really from the tri-state area. Right. But found it, stumbled upon it. How long was he on the air for? Well, 20 something years.

Right, forever. Yeah, but you know what he did before there was FCC rules? He would go out to the local pet store, bakery. Right. You want to buy some time on a TV show? Yeah. 100 bucks. Yeah. He'd bucks. Yeah.

You know? Yeah. He'd go to 20 guys. And he'd just give them a mention? Yeah, he'd give them a mention. He made little commercials. He would pay like, I don't know, something like $500 to rent the studio for the day and do five shows in one day.

Right. And collect money from these guys all week long. What channel was it on? First, it started on UHF. Right. Which is foreign to any kid today. So he was just a freak. Yeah, channel 68 on UHF.

Right. And then they moved him to another channel. He'd come on right after the stock market report. Was it a real gig? At first, it was his own thing, right? It was his own thing. How much older is he? He's like four years older than me. Yeah. And he's a man out of time anyway right i don't know him you know he

he found uh you know his friends were like in vaudeville really mickey deems and joey fay and older guys how do you know those guys and he he went he pursued them the way i pursued old blues players oh really he pursued old vaudeville comedians and worked with them in uh there was still some burlesque he worked with ancorio and uh and uh and there was still some burlesque shows going so he was in new york in new york and he would he put him on the uncle floyd show uh he would if he would find those guys yeah but then the punks found him so all of a sudden it became like hip david bowie was showing up at the studio come on yeah yeah uh and and uh and joe hansen the dolls were there uh-huh you know johnny thunders all these cats man cindy lauper at the time we're hanging out at the uncle floyd and the ramones

were the biggest fans of uncle floyd yeah yeah so i got turned on to that by him by accident because you know i was into soul music and all that stuff when you were how old though when he started i was it was probably uh i was probably uh 18 or 17 when he started doing 18 when he started so he's just this weird kid yeah he was like 22 you know and and already like an old man though what when we were kids he uh we had a dance team yeah you know the three of us jerry jerry me and floyd that one that's it and yeah and uh so you know we would uh we had we just tap dance and then play our instruments and then sing yeah and then do some comedy you know and he would and he would insist man when when we were kids i had this little tape

recording we say record coconuts right, and then learn this part. Right. And then tonight, we're going to do it in my room. We're going to do this scene. You're going to work it out? We're going to work out this scene. And he would put on these old records, 78s. Yeah.

Because he used to clean out houses, old ladies' houses. So he was into that old era. Yeah. He was that guy. He was a man at a time. A man at a time. So I'd have to learn. Jerry got to learn Harpo's lines, which were none. And I had to learn all the Ravelli shit.

That's a nice. And he was always Groucho. You were Chico. Yeah. And then he became friends with Joe Franklin and Georgie Jessel and all these guys. Joe Franklin's another one of those guys, though. It took him a long time to get hip, but it was freak hip, you know? He's still alive, man.

I was at Patsy's on 56th Street or wherever it is down there, and having a business meeting with some guys. And Joe Franklin walks in, and it's like, he just looks like a dead man walking. Like he's made up. He could just go right to the coffin, man. Well, it's weird, the Jersey thing, like with your brother, but also, I don't remember who I was talking to,

but there was that Channel 11, man, in Jersey. They played all the Stooges. I was talking to Leonard Maltz about it. We grew up with Joe Bolton and all the stooges the oh he's talking to leonard we grew up with but with joe bolton and the stooges and the bowery boys yeah and and and there was little rascals captain jack with the popeyes the old flasher popeyes right and they were all on that one channel what was it channel 11 wpx yeah and and uh it was it was a new york channel and then there was uh chuck mccann was on there with let's have fun chuck mccann was genius and then channel five you had sandy becker and uncle fred scott and these other guys yeah you

know and and uh and then they were kiddie shows for adults right and what was soupy on soupy was i can't remember what channel i would guess maybe five or floyd came after oh floyd acknowledged that soupy was his like one of his biggest biggest really? Biggest influence Soupy and Chuck McCann You know and to I don't know where the idea came into his head To do a kiddie show with puppets But that was for stoners For really what we called punks in those days

And those guys latched on to it And started appearing They would come and lip sync their records Who? Well the Ramones Were on Uncle Floyd void yeah oh man all the bowie you know uh who's got that footage is it on youtube you know some of it may be but you know how it was then tape over it that's right we're doing a live show and bowie had john lennon and somebody else what tony visconti with him right and they were sitting.

They were in the bottom line. There was like two dressing rooms, one on either side of the stage. Who was the band? Your band? The band was me and my brother Jerry and a couple guys from Jersey, Ed Alstrom. Which band was that? It was the Vivino Brothers band. Okay. And so we were the band.

So we were all standing. We didn't get to go in the dressing rooms because Floyd had 20 other people. So he comes up to me and I'm talking to Tony. live floyd show yeah live show in the bottom i'm talking to visconti and bowie and you know and and lennon and he's in there too but he's like quiet and you don't bother him they came to see a live yeah yeah and then floyd says floyd comes out and says jimmy get these guys out of here we gotta do a show i don't care who they are and i'm like oh my god and they love it. Yeah.

They're loving being kicked out. Cause he's your brother. Like everybody, everybody kisses our ass, but this guy, he could care. So they loved him even more. And was he really like that?

Or was that an act? He was really like that. And he still is. Is he a little ass burgery? Well, no, no. Because if no,

no, no. Because if, if, if Mickey Deems was back there or Joey Faye or one of those guys. He'd be like, welcome. Yeah, if Myron Cohen was back there. He'd be loving it.

He'd be saying, kissing their ass. They had no time for rock and roll and they loved that he had no time for that. So he was a real kook. Bowie wrote a song even about Floyd. Oh, really? He played it for me and my brother Jerry one time. He said, sit down, I want to play you something. It's a line in the Twinkle, Twinkle, Uncle Floyd. Oh, really? He played it for me and my brother Jerry one time. He said, sit down, I want to play you something. It's a line in the

Twinkle, Twinkle, Uncle Floyd. It's from about four albums back. Really? Four or five albums back. And he was so happy to play. He said, would you please show this to Floyd? I said,

sure, if he'll look at anything on videotape, you know. Oh, he doesn't? Well, you know, it's like- Is he still like this? 78s, you know? Yeah. Everything's 78s. He's still like that? Oh, he's still like this, you know, it's like- Is he still like this? 78s, you know? Yeah.

Everything's 78s. He's still like that? Oh, he's still like this, yeah. Do you guys get along? Oh, we get along great, you know? But, you know, like his friends, Jerry Vale, a guy that he worked with a lot, just passed away, you know? Jerry Vale, the singer?

Yeah, the singer. And like Pat Cooper was a buddy of his, you know? He's still around? Yeah, yeah. Oh, all right. Yeah, and you know, do They'll do shows together Italian shows You know

Oh really And then he did Italian radio For many years Up in the Bronx He spoke Italian Yeah You speak Italian

No he learned He learned And you know why So he could go up To Arthur Avenue And get free food And say You want me to

Again it was like You want me to talk About your show On the radio He could walk home With a basket of food You know So how'd you guys All end up in show business?

Was your father a show business guy? Because our father was probably the most talented trumpet player I ever heard. But he was from a family of carpenters, so he wasn't allowed to do that. He came over here on a boat. You know, he was born in 1927 in Italy. Came over in like 1930, something like 33. Yeah. And he wasn't allowed to pursue music, though.

He did play. I had an uncle that ran the Plaza Ballroom in Patterson, and he had a big band, and my father got to play in it, and all the family, but they were carpenters still. And for my father to have three sons and that and and and abandon the fact that he should have had a construction empire with three more sons the last thing he was going to do was force us into that right so he if we showed interest he would uh you know take us for lessons if if i wasn't ready for my lesson i was a trumpet player yeah up until i was like 23, I switched to guitar. Really?

Played trumpet and then organ. And the only gigs your dad ever did was with your uncle? No, no. Yeah, he didn't do a lot of gigs.

He did the gigs with the Frank Viv Orchestra, you know. Yeah. What was his style? And worked in the Army. Well, Louis Armstrong, let me see.

He loved Louis Armstrong. Yeah. He loved Roy Eldridge, Bunny Berrigan, you know, all those. And he could really do it? Oh, he could play. Oh, man, he could play. He was great, man, and he could sing good, too. But he wasn't allowed to do that.

But he worked as a carpenter. He was a carpenter. And he would take us on the job just so we would not want to do that. And this was him and his brothers? Well, him and his brothers, yeah, and my grandfather. And they built, like, all the Brielle Est estates in point pleasant when we lived down the shore you know they were they built all these in the 50s there were all these things going up right it's just like right you know the big developments and uh so they worked down and uh you know all

the way from the jersey shore all the way up to newark all the way up to patterson and you grew up in patterson yeah yeah patterson's heavy and there was a house yeah well luke costello's from patterson so there's my brother right away was we want to be like luke costello sure right so that was it yeah okay so this stuff is close to my heart because my grandmother my family's from jersey so my grandmother they they lived in pompton lakes new jersey yeah which was probably rural as hell when they were i guess kind it's a little town. I mean, it wasn't quite rural. I mean, Butler was a little rural. Verona, Butler, Pumpton Lakes.

Like my grandfather used to own a hardware store and an appliance store. He'd sell washing machines to the hill people. Route 23 was kind of new up there, going up that way. But she used to, I can't remember. The people from Mahwah, the Jackson Whites came down. The Jackson Whites. They came down. He used to sell them washing machines.

Yeah. Yeah, it was a trip, man. There was no 287, though, connecting that mountain like there is now. I didn't know that. Yeah, now, then they came down the mountain, really. And it really, into Lincoln Park. I know my mother knew a Jackson White in, Haskell is where his hardware store was. Yeah.

And there was a guy that had a horse or a donkey or something. They his hardware store was. Yeah. And there was a guy that had a horse or a donkey or something. He'd come down for supplies. Right. Yeah, crazy, right? But New Jersey, I'm trying to remember

why the hell we went into Patterson. We saw the Fabian Theater in Patterson. Yeah. We saw the Three Stooges live. You did? Yeah.

How old are you? I'm now 59 now. You look great. I was born in 55. 55 okay so that makes me 59 right yeah um i'm a musician i don't i don't grow you know i don't i'm done but you've been clear you didn't beat yourself up as much as some musicians no i i did for a long time and then i stopped and then i'm back but i'll tell you what you beat it why not get back always because always because of a girl, right?

We do things, we can get into that, but you know. We saw the three Stooges. Anyway, the three Stooges made a movie where they go to the moon. It was like Joe Dorita, you know, the later three. And we went, we're all excited and we're at the Fabian Theater. It's probably, I'm probably six. It's like 1961 or something. Well, who brought you?

Your father? I don't know who. My mother brought the three of us and we're there with her and I got an aisle seat man yeah and they're gonna come down the aisle

from the back of the theater and walk down the aisle up to the front right and I'm waiting the three stooges man these guys god the three stooges

they come down and they're like four foot three yeah they're like little Russian guys from the lower east side right

yeah and that's that first letdown harowitz right maybe it's a howard but howard howard i wonder what his real name was something yeah probably but but anyway mo was just i was just you know enamored it was like you know was it great seeing them live i mean that's they must have been older men by then well they were older men but but this was before Mo got into the whole fight with the Beatles about them stealing his haircut.

Oh, really? But the movie was horrible, but we loved it. Yeah. And I remember Larry, too. So they were just doing a bit before the movie? Well, they came up.

They came down the aisle. Everybody went crazy. The kids are going nuts. Yeah. They go up on stage and they got one guy with them. Who do you think they got with them?

A sound effects guy. Oh, okay. Like a radio sound effects guy. Oh, okay. Like a radio sound effects guy. Oh, really? Yeah. With a timpani. Yeah. So when he would punch

Curly Joe, boom, and they had a ratchet if he pulled Larry's hair, and they had a go-go thing that went boing, if you would hit him in the eyes, you know?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He would hit him, you know, and they did like 15 minutes of their vaudeville bit. That's amazing. And the kids went nuts, man. did like 15 minutes of their vaudeville bit. That's amazing. And the kids went nuts, man. And then we went to see Bozo later on. He was a dud because we said-

Can't follow the studio. This is, you can't follow the studio. He said, anybody can be Bozo. It's a clown costume. Right, right. We don't know that we're getting the real guy. You know, we're not going to get Larry Harmon. Yeah.

Who years later I met and he sent me a picture of himself. The original Bozo? Yeah, yeah. Diver Dan I met later. You know he sent me a picture of himself. The original Bozo? Yeah, yeah. Diver Dan I met later. You know, these guys I watched on TV. It's always weird. They're working like in regular jobs now. And it's always weird.

It can go either way when you meet the guys that you loved when you were a kid. Oh, yeah. Well, the same with Chuck Berry. I met him briefly. I pretty much wake up every day and forgive Chuck Berry. You do? Yeah, because I hear the music and I say, that's all. He invented it.

Yeah. For a while I thought, maybe every time I've met him, it's just been a bad day every time. He's just a dick? Is he a dick? Well, he was treated badly. For years. He was treated badly. They put the man act on him. They did everything they could

to put this guy in jail because all the white girls loved him. It's like, get rid of this guy. Right. You know? Yeah. And he was pretty, you know, I mean, he was happening. Everybody loved Chuck. Yeah.

And he was a poet, you know. His songwriting, dude, like, you know, I was listening. There's not a more prolific writer. But there's not a better, like, rock songwriter. No. Because if you listen to, like, You Can't Catch Me or something like that, where... I was listening to Dylan recently. I'm like, there's no Dylan without Chuck Berry.

No, there isn't. Because the listing thing, the Maybelline was redone by Bob a lot. Was it? Oh, yeah. Was Bob really... He was on top of it. Yeah. But there's...

Well, Monkey Business is a perfect idea. That's it. That's a Dylan. That's a Dylan song. Yeah. It's Subterranean Homesick Blues. It is.'s subterranean homesick blue it is yeah it is no it is it is i like i like i didn't i realized that later in life it was definitely monkey business yeah yeah monkey business is subterranean but bob was smarter than the beach boys they just got nailed for surfing usa i mean it's the exact

chuck you know i know but it was it's not even one of his great lyrical oddities. Like, you know, like, Can't Catch Me and Too Much Monkey Business. Yeah. And, well, Maybelline, too. Like, the Beach Boys did the easy ones. Yeah, yeah, but Brown-Eyed Handsome Man, the lyrics in that. I love Buddy Holly's cover of that. Yeah.

It's great. Oh, yeah. And Chuck's, you know, well, yeah, he's salty and stuff, you know, but I met him a lot when I worked with Johnny Johnson, his piano player. Yeah. You know, for a good 10 years. We would encounter Chuck now and then. And Johnny could put him in line because Johnny was the one guy. He stole it from Johnny.

He was afraid of Johnny. Johnny invented that open. Oh, yeah. Right? And that's why Chuck would only play in those fucking piano keys because Johnny was the guy. But you know what? It's still the songwriting. I mean, it's one thing to say music,

because music was a communal thing and everybody was playing everybody's stuff. But when you get into Chuck's melody and lyrics, those are clearly his. And it's hard to patent the blues, man. Yeah, absolutely. But he's also got this weird thing that I didn't really realize until I watched Keith and I listened to him talk to Keith that he's got a bounce.

That's not easy to do. You know, there's some mythology involved with all this. Nobody knows, you know, when you play, you know, you know,

the ones you play. Well, when I play with Keith Richard one, two times that I did, you know, when was that? Well, we were at the Manny,

not Manny's, the Chicago blues. Yeah. On, on 12th Street, which is where Greenwich runs right into Hudson. What year was this? Oh, I'm going to guess 94, 95. But he was just hanging out? I was playing with Johnny, and we walked in with Johnny Johnson.

And I walked in, and I look over to the side. Sitting there with a drink, orange juice and vodka, is Keith Richard. Yeah. And he's there. He's like, hey, mate, I'm here to play with Johnny, right? I said, oh, fucking yeah, you are. That's great. He went downstairs, came downstairs.

I had a 350 like Chuck's. Yeah. I'd let him play. He picked that. I had a 50 Strat. And he said, well, I'm not going to play that when you have that Chuck guitar. Right. And he played the Chuck Berry 350 all night that when you have that Chuck guitar and he played the

Chuck Berry 350 all night took his shirt off you know just played did he nail it? oh he was great yeah

oh it was I had never been in that car before yeah you know with him driving you're done man it's like standing next to

B.B. King or anybody else really? yeah oh yeah oh yeah he drives he drives the band he does the

band has to be you can't not you can't ignore the groove coming it's all there he doesn't really you know i think he hooks up with charlie yeah yeah like that right and uh he demands uh he demands you your attention you know and uh but like when you say that because you're like you know by nature or not not by nature but by occupation you know outside of uh you know and uh but like when you say that because you're like you know by nature or not not by nature but by occupation you know outside of uh you know what you're doing now you're a band leader now and you're always sort of a secret band leader but you're a background backup guy well yeah and i'll tell you though when the thing the secret about two guitars of course yeah is somebody's going to be taking the wheel and that's going to be keith in this case and

then you're going to find the other part. You're not going to play his stuff. Because you can't. Well, no, it's just not good music. I know, but it's weird because Keith is... Keith has a thing, he talks about the weaving of two guitars in his book. And he talks about it.

Right, I know. And it either works or it doesn't work. But you knew that going in. I didn't, the book wasn't written yet, but I knew from being in situations... You've got to follow him. You've got to find your holes. That there's another part. And it's, the book wasn't written yet but I knew from being in situations You gotta follow him. You gotta find your holes.

that you, there's another part and it's not the part he's playing. But he'll leave it open. Oh, it's there. There's plenty of space there. It's there.

When you find it, you get a smile from him. If you don't find it, he'll come right up in your face. Really? You know? Well, guys will attack you, man.

Jack Bruce, I played with Jack Bruce one day, right? And he just comes up like he wants to have a knife fight with you, you know? It's so weird because as a listener, unless you're very astute, you're not really going to pick up just how on top of it these guys are. See, that's the weird mythology of the fan versus the musician

is that you can listen to Keith all day and think like, well, you know, it's a little messy and it's oddly, he makes odd timing choices choices but he's completely on top of it yeah i mean just listen to can't you hear me knocking you're done man so when did you start playing when did you drop the trumpet and why is there really a why no no no no but i mean it's well i played trumpet it was it limiting i mean did you did you not feel you could push yourself through the trumpet my dad my father trumpet. I always wanted to because I could never be as good as him on the horn or my brother Jerry on the sax.

Who plays in Conan's band with you. Yeah, who's just a genius player. Do you guys get along? Oh, yeah, we get along, but he never takes the horn out of his mouth. He's practicing 24 hours a day trying to still hone his craft. Really? And I was always like, like okay let me get this i learned trumpet and then i learned to arrange for a big band by the time i was like 14 or 15

and seven you could write music seventh grade i was arranging for the big band in in high school really yeah so i was so that was your thing you can oh yeah but you could break it down you could take a piece of stan kelton music yeah stan kenton and buddy rich and stuff and I started like reading downbeat and there would be transcriptions in the back looking how'd you learn how to read music from trumpet yeah but then uh one of my teachers gave me a Walter Piston book about the orchestration and uh you know and about practical ranges of instruments and I read the book front to cover like 10 times you were fascinated with the whole I was fascinating I couldn't do math for shit right but this which was math and I read the book front to cover like 10 times you were fascinated with the whole thing I was fascinated

I couldn't do math for shit right but this which was math and I wasn't connecting that it was math right

was beautiful in front of a piano I could figure out chord voicings and stuff and you know and started transcribing things

records Zappa records you know beef heart records so you're 15 you figure out how to write the music you're going to see

all these rock bands yeah and then I got an organ. I said, shit, man, I get organ players. What is it, an M4 or whatever? No, no, my friend had a Vox Super Continental. Was that what they were called, the M4? No, no, I had an M3.

I got an M3 eventually, which is what Booker T played, only on Green Onions, but still, that was before the B. So first I got a Farfisa, you know a combo compact for my my uncle's son didn't want to play anymore he was going to become an electrician join the family business yeah so we all tried so i got that farfisa and then i you know started playing organ right and then got hooked on al cooper and all that you know and felix cavalieri and steve from blood sweat and tears yeah al this is like my best friend in the world now. Is he all right?

Yeah, he's great. And Felix is another good friend of mine from the Rascals. And then there was Wynwood, who those three guys were my favorite guys. So it goes Wynwood from, and all three from their vocal standpoint too. I love the way they all sang. Different. So then I started playing organ in bands and then got the M3 uh just local you know just little bands with my brother i always had horns because i'd be writing for the horns yeah you know and we always had with jerry with jerry yeah floyd's off doing his no he's off

like somewhere playing honky-tonk piano up in the catskills or something and they're playing in the jewish mountains right he's up there playing in, you know, whatever, you know. And so we're just playing rock. We're playing like rock and roll in Seoul around, you know. Around Jersey? Yeah, around Jersey. Up and down the coast you could play. You know, we're opening for, it's like 74, you know,

we're opening for bands like Harold Melvin and the Blue Notes are coming in from Philly. Before they're famous, you know, we famous, we used to sit for six months at a time in Paquanic on Route 23, up there where you're talking about, where your people are from. And so we were the house band. So Chubby Checker, The Platters.

And you just back them? They'd all come through and we'd back them all up. And Fred Parrison of Five Satins, I got to know all these guys, doo-wop guys guys and they'd come in with arrangements and just sometimes just a guitar player saying here's how it goes you know and how dare you not know these songs how if you can't get through the twist and i'm playing wait but i'm playing organ and bass at the same time now yeah so i have to know the song right but that and that was back when they still had supper clubs around right yeah the big rooms oh yeah yeah big bands yeah so then we then i decided at

one point after you know after maybe uh four years of doing that i said oh man i'm like 23 now i i want to play guitar i always had a guitar and i yeah so i stopped gigging and just went back to work doing carpentry spackling sheet rocking you know practicing guitar okay and then got with a show band this was the best Andre and Sorrell okay everywhere around Jersey there's a band that's like Martin and Lewis right a comedian and a singer handsome singer funny-looking comedian yeah so and and we're playing the you know the lounges in Jersey. Right.

You know, the Goomba lounges, really, and coming in after us, or the week before, is Joe Pesci and Frankie Vincent and their band. Yeah. You know, Joe Pesci was a guitar player.

Really? Yeah, and Frank Vincent, I think, was the drummer. That's the guy he kills in every movie. No, I know. They're great. But they were a comedy team.

They're a comedy team. They were like a Martin and Lewis. You know, handsome guy, funny guy. That was the way it worked. Yeah, and we had Andre and Sorrell, and these guys were all friends. And you were just backing them?

So I lost myself in a show band for like a year, playing guitar. Just backing those two? Just backing up whoever, whatever we did, you know, and still learned to play guitar, because I'd practice all day long. We'd be on the road in West Virginia for three weeks. What were you practicing?

What did you use to practice in? What were you trying to figure out i was just really um everything i could get my hands on every every cassette i had with me you know a lot of times it was charlie christian uh and at the same time uh jeff beck group you know t-bone walker t-bone walker heavy muddy waters uh and i fell in love with Guitar Slim who was a guy down in New Orleans you know

things I used to do no Freddie or Albert yet? Freddie was essential yeah Albert was Albert you know Albert was what Hendrix

was coming from you know you could hear all that bending stuff and Buddy Guy yeah well Buddy too yeah but something about Freddie

those records you know Freddie King sings the instrumentals yeah and freddie king plays yeah you know yeah freddie king plays and sings hideaway hideaway yeah dance away that hideaway dance away album yeah and then freddie king sings yeah where he does the bobby bland thing yes you know he got bobby it's interesting that the transition from those records into the we on russell produce things yeah which aren't my favorite they're not very good the transition from those records into the We Are Russell produced things. Yeah, which aren't my favorites. They're not very good. No, those King records are the shit. Right.

And then there was a TV show. The James Brown King records are great. Yeah, there was a TV show called The Beat. If you can find it, you can look online and just do Freddie King, The Beat, and watch what comes up. And you'll be astounded at how great they shot him playing. You can learn so much from that.

Though, if you have the beat, like the whole box set of the beat, or just watch him online, you'll be a better guitar player. I'm just like, I don't have a knack to pick up shit. You know, like, you'll show me shit if I go to Conan. Yeah, that's all we do. That's really why you come. Yeah, just so I can play your guitars and you can show me two things. Yeah.

Because, like, if you show me a good thing, I'm like, I'm just going to play that over and over again. But you'll always do something and I say, shit, that's cool. No, come on. I wouldn't do that. Listen, your vibrato's better than mine, man. Oh, come on. So, you know, that's good. It must be from the girls, man.

I don't know. I don't know. It's his finger. Yeah, but either you got to feel or you don't. No, you can either guys do that or they don't. Yeah, because Brendan Small came in here and I was doing blue shit. And he's like, you got the vibrato. I'm like, is that a hard thing?

Oh, yeah. I didn't know that was something. But then I paid attention to it. And there's some footage I watched of Eric Clapton showing the difference between his sad vibrato and then his rock vibrato. Oh, you know that great spinal tap one where he talks about the woman tone and the wah-wah? That's right. Yeah, that was it. It's very cool, though. It's very spinal tap one where he talks about the woman tone and the wah-wah. Yeah, that was it.

It's very cool, though. It's very spinal tap, though. Well, yeah, if you want to mock it, but he seemed to believe it. No, he did believe it. He was right. Look, there's nobody who has more right to play the blues than Eric Clapton. No, that's right, but he was never really my guy. After John Mayall, maybe two Cream songs, I was done. Well, he got so down on himself.

He got insecure? Yeah, I don't know. He didn't want to believe what people were saying about him. Right. But it was a heavy burden, man. Nobody was better. He was spooked by Hendrix. Everybody was.

Yeah. But really, Eric had something totally different. It's weird. All those Brits, they got spooked by Hendrix and then got spooked by the band. Yeah, well, the band broke up more bands. It's weird. All those Brits, they got spooked by Hendrix, and then got spooked by the band. Yeah, well, the band broke up more bands. It was weird because Clapton- They stopped the British blues dead in its track. Why?

The Beatles, even. You hear the Beatles trying to do All Things Must Pass during the Let It Be sessions. There's some bootlegs. That was post-band. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're trying to be the band. Yeah.

What was it about the band that made them so crazy? Pete Townsend. Pete Townsend too, yeah. Pete Townsend's demo, it's on the Lighthouse box, Won't Get Fooled Again. It's shameless, Levon Helm.

He's playing drums too. And he took it to the Who apparently and said, I want you to play it like this. And Keith was like, no fucking way. Yeah. You know.

But what was it about the band that everybody was so jealous of? Well, the fact that A, they were Dylan's guys. Yeah. You know. Right. And B, nobody had ever played any music like that as a band before.

Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Yes, it's rooted in everything gospel and George Jones and Ray Charles. It's like pure American music. Yeah, it's all American. There was nothing English about it. And no one ever heard that before.

And it wasn't really the blues. No. Except that Richard was the blues, was singing. But it was the gospel aspect of piano and organ. Just think, at the same time, the piano and the organ. Yeah. Procol Harum had that that sound but it didn't sound like that right you know it wasn't like out of church well somehow or another garth was able

to capture an americana garth is a carnival right exactly he's a carnival and and and to integrate that into into into rock music i don't think anybody ever really garth played organ in his uh in his uncle's uh you know funeral home i think that was it the weird mix of all those guys and where they came from and what was important to them because i fucking like all of them singing outside of robbie and or garth but like richard rick and leave on it's like you can't beat those fucking yeah where do you get only the beatles had three lead singers yeah and and it worked for the beatles right but even then i think that that mostly pa and George were impressed with the band.

John wasn't impressed. You know, John was, nothing was bigger than the Beatles to John, never. Right. Never would be. Even John. Even John. Right. You know, I mean, he admittedly was like, you know, that, you know, that he wouldn't

be impressed by anything. It's pretty astounding. Even Dylan, he outdid Dylan in a lot of ways. He took Dylan's thing, like, you know, almost stole... Norwegian Wood is almost, is Bob Dylan's one of the dream songs. Yeah. Almost, you know, almost note for note, but... Yeah.

Bob wouldn't say anything about that. Right, right. You know, because Bob got it from Woody, and he didn't want to open that door. Yeah, Bob got it from Woody and Ramblin' Jack. Yeah, right, right. You don't want to open that door there's a certain amount of uh of uh you know communal sharing sure that's that's well i mean but it's also like you know people have to try on you know they have to sort of appropriate the drive of

somebody else in order to get to where they're going yeah yeah and even the beatles got that from you know well they got it first of all from elvis and little richard and the everly brothers yeah sorry so you're playing behind comedy teams yeah right so then and then I'm I'm just playing guitar now

yeah and then I at one point I said man I gotta I gotta I gotta get to New York you know I gotta get to I'm in Jersey

gotta get out of Jersey I'm working I'm working like crazy I'm making money as a musician yeah but I'm not getting anywhere you know and

and I go and I start i'm not getting anywhere you know and uh and um i go and i start hanging out at jp's you know up in 78th street wherever it is up there on first avenue what was that everybody's hanging out there harry nelson's there you know uh dave mason's there we're all misbehaving kennedy juniors are up there you know everybody's everybody's hanging out we go in the basement. A guy comes down. We drink all night. We leave at five in the morning. We bring our sunglasses with us when we start drinking.

And started meeting people. And I met a band there that was backing up Kitty Bruce, Lenny's daughter at the time. What was she doing? She was singing. And then Al Cooper came in and he was going to grab that band. I was playing with that band. Who else was in it?

Nobody you would know. Nobody you would know. All Jersey guys. Yeah. We would come in, and Al says, like, sorry, I can't use you, man, because you do the same thing I do. You play organ and guitar. Yeah.

So this is Al Cooper. So at that time- So we became friends. That's what gears is done yeah and he's done some solo touring and and he's produced leonard skinner by now and he's and produced the tubes and bread yeah he's done some stuff he's moving around he was in atlanta for a while he was in la all right so you meet al cooper so i meet al cooper and and and i couldn't work with him but the same time we hooked up with phoebe snow so i was working with phoebe because

al wasn't in that situation so they were sharing a band kind of phoebe and phoebe and al phoebe was like a big influence she taught me to play acoustic blues you know she really learned from bromberg yeah her and bromberg another guy never got yeah well it was a great sitting down you know bromberg and and uh you know was just great at sitting down and playing porch blues acoustic blues. I've got to fucking revisit that shit. Stefan Grossman, those guys, Stephen Bishop, they were all around. Stephen Bishop?

Yeah, they were all around at the same time. They were all folk singers and blues, folk and blues. And so then I started working with Phoebe. It's weird. And then I had to stop and started working with Al too because Al said put a band together for me and I did.

And Al would take the front and he would sing and play piano? Yeah, he'd sing and play piano. What was it? Mostly Blood, Sweat, and Tears stuff?

All of his stuff. Yeah. Just a big catalog of stuff. And then at the same time I'm working at the bottom line with my brother Floyd

doing live shows. Yeah. And Alan Pepper who owns the bottom line says I got this idea to do. Yeah. And Alan Pepper, who owns the bottom line, says, I got this idea to do a show. I see you come in here, you organize things, you put bands together. I want to do a show with Ellie Greenwich and Jeff Barry,

their music, and I want to, you know, bring you together with Paul Schaefer, who is maybe now two years into the Letterman show, out of Saturday Night Live. Is he a wizard? He's great. He's my mentor. He's the guy that, yeah, that nobody knows what a great he a wizard? He's great. He's my mentor. He's the guy that, yeah, that nobody knows what a great musician he is.

He obviously is. You know, they know the character. Well, yeah, he became one, but. You know, there was a guy, you know, called, named Oscar Levant. Yeah, yeah, the piano player. Who was a brilliant piano player. But more people knew him as a sort of an actor, an eccentric, a comedian.

But he was still a motherfucker. Ben Stiller was trying, he was going to do a movie about him. Yeah, yeah, a comedian, but he was still a mother fucker. Ben Stiller was going to do a movie about him. Yeah, he was brilliant. Yeah, he's great to watch. And Jose E. Turby was another one. Yeah. Brilliant players. Yeah.

But they also, and Liberace, they had these personalities. Right. Paul's like a combination of those three guys, and Jerry Lee Lewis. Great ear, right? Yeah, Jerry Lee Lewis, yeah. The way the flamboyant thing, and Elton John a bit. But he can do all of those. That's what makes and Elton John a bit but but he can do all of those that's what makes it different just a great like he can interpret anything he taught

me about how to listen to records from the bottom up like what does that mean well how how to find out what makes a record right the rhythm section you start with the bass and drums you get that right you can build on that but you can't arrange a record from the top with the strings and horns yeah none of that's important Yeah, it's all that window dressing is fine, and he knew that I could do that Yeah So he was gonna help me doing the rhythm arrangements for this show with Darlene love and all these great people Who ran called leader of the pack right bottom line?

So that got me in me and Paul became great friends and still are since then we just record heads Yeah, and quotes, you know and and just he introduced me to Phil Spector and just all these great... What was that like? It was a bizarre evening. What happened? Well, you know... Where were you? We went to PJ Clark's, I guess it's called, right?

Something like that. A steakhouse. That's where... Out here? No, no, in New York. He calls me upork he says he calls me up he says phil's in town uh you should come so i said all right and i go i go to see phil and paul and i meet with paul and paul's there that's the funniest story paul had two friends

he had had done uh viva shake vegas you know his show in vegas so he knew some dancers from vegas that were in town and and two of those girls were at the table, and me and Paul. So it was four of us at the table waiting for Phil to show up. It was friendly, totally. It wasn't anything, you know. There was nothing about it, but just from... So Phil comes, and he's got two big bodyguards with him, right? Yeah.

And Phil, and he looks. He's a little guy. He's a little guy, and he looks, and he looks, and he and he gives you the fish handshake yeah and he looks around he looks at me and paul and he looks at the two girls and he whispers to one of the big guys the guy runs out to make a phone call yeah within 20 minutes two hookers show up for phil because he's like, you have girls. Now I have girls. Really? Interesting. And it was funny as hell, man. And so we had steaks. And then it was going to continue.

And it was getting a little drunky and a little bit passive aggressive. With Phil. Yeah. So I went home. Yeah. Because I had heard some other stories about going out. And I didn't want to be in that. You didn't want to be in the crossfire of some weird shit?

I was just impressed to be in his presence. Did he talk music be in the crossfire or some weird shit? I was just impressed to be in his presence. Did he talk music at all? Yeah, we did about the Blind Boys of Alabama, about some gospel groups and just he loved

all that stuff. Uh-huh. You don't talk to people about their music. Right. If I'm with Jimmy Page or something or Robert Plant's

in the room, we talk about Howlin' Wolf. We have a common ground. Yeah. If you talk about Plant's in the room, we talk about Howlin' Wolf. We have a common ground. Yeah. If you talk about someone's music to them, the wall immediately goes up. Uh-huh.

You know, you are, all of a sudden, you're a fan. You can't be a fan to people. Not if you're a musician. No, no, no. And even with comedy.

I mean, if you're, you know, you don't, if you were hanging out with Steve Martin, would you talk about his bits? Hey, remember you did that bit?

It depends. You know, I mean. Because I do that with you. I mean, like, you know, you bits hey remember you did that bit you know it depends you know i mean because i do that with you i mean like you know you're gonna show me that riff i ain't steve martin no no but but no but still like but then again i'm not a musician so i'm allowed to be a music fan yeah so like when i talk to musicians in here like if i talk to booker t i'm gonna talk to him for two hours about his music yeah and it's gonna be okay well i mean i can talk to you about mitch hedberg right sure i can in the underground world but see but comedy is different it's like there's no history behind a joke but a piece of produced music you know some of those things got the biggest stories in the world well yeah that's true but there's always the milton burl thing

about who did he steal from and you know but but still like if i talk to john kale i'm like what about those stooges records he's like he said to me, he said, they were all set. Yeah. He took that gig just because no one else wanted to do it in a way. Yeah, they were ready to go. Yeah. Just turn the machine on. Exactly.

Yeah. And that astounded me. Yeah. Because I thought like, what does a producer bring to this? Well, with them, not much. Well, I had a conversation with Ringo Starr. Yeah. And here's what I said to Ringo Starr.

conversation uh with ringo star yeah and here's what i said to ringo star because i said what did it feel like to uh what did it feel like to be in the biggest band in england and then take a step down and join the beatles you know because that's the truth. Rory Storm and the Hurricanes were the biggest band in England. They were like wild, crazy, you know? He says,

well, the Beatles paid me more money. But you know, it was fun. It's fun to not, you know, you want to push that button.

Yeah, you don't want to push that fan button with anybody, really. You know, your wall goes up, you know? Sure, sure. And you want to, you can't know somebody, you know, you find common ground. So you and Al Cooper, like, you lock in. So me and Al Cooper, we locked in, and we still love each other.

And then after that, I... How long were you with him, though? Oh, I'm still with him. I just did his 70th birthday in New York. We did three nights, two nights at B.B. King's and one in Albany. But didn't you spend a lot of time just working with him almost exclusively? Never, never. No?

Never. And then, so I was doing Phoebe and him, and then I stopped doing both to do the Broadway show, which went from the bottom line to Broadway. Yeah. And that put like a halt on things. And you were arranging it as well? Yeah, conducting, arranging. But then I wasn't really into that.

And once the show stopped, I went back to playing. I played with a band called Reckless Sleepers with Jewel Shearer, Steve Holley, and we recorded on IRS records. You know, we made one album. And at that time... But you had no dream of of being a pop

no act no and then um my friend then i then i went out with um to work on a tv show out here so you always consider yourself a like a studio musician a working musician a working musician that's all i ever wanted to be was was tommy tedesco you know that's all i ever wanted to be yeah so anyway then i'm i'm doing that i'm doing a lot of stuff different stuff and what tv shows you do out here out here i came to do two two um pilots for a show uh a show called uh deja vu and the idea was john sebastian was going to be the host so i met john sebastian felix cavallari was there nrbq was there and ronnie specter and peter noon i was there yeah you know md and for most of the bands yeah and then playing with nrbq

with felix and john right and uh and that's when i met john and um and we became like just great friends again you know we started a jug band together we did we just kept working together through all these people i I met Laura Nero, then through Felix and John, and started working with Laura and produced a record with her and was on the road for like three years with her. And then the Conan gig came in 93, because somewhere in that, you know,

I had worked with Max on something called Killer Joe, a project, after the E Street Band got fired. So he brought you in as a. He brought you in as a... He brought me in as a guitar player. My brother was in the band, and the guitar player wasn't happy, and he said, call my brother. So Max called me, and then we got along great. You were next in?

Yeah, we worked great in that band together. How's the arranging? Well, he's a great drummer. Right. Did you do most of the arranging? Well, I was always the arranger that was never that was never hidden you know yeah uh it was always my job and um and so i was at this point playing with clarence and living in uh you know in 92 clarence clemens clarence

clemens i had a band with clarence living in um at his house in sausalito when max called me and said i got and i got an audition and we got to put the band back together because I told him we have a band. So you got to come home, but don't tell Clarence because he'll get, all he has to do is call and he has the gig.

Right. He was such a dynamic person now. Yeah, yeah. What were you doing with him? Just the Clarence Clemons band, you know? That was you? Yeah. After though, after the hits, you know,

just like we're just getting it together. And then I left, and I came home here to New York. I left because I had worked on Sister Act 1 and 2 with Whoopi. Yeah. And Mark Shaman, my friend, and did a lot of movie work with him out here. And I was going to move out here. Working in movies seemed fine. And TV.

And I had done a soul session with James Brown for Cinemax and Legendary Ladies of Rock and Roll. So I was working on TV. You played with all these guys. And movies, yeah. Wilson Pickett and, you know. Did you? We had Pickett and James Brown

and Aretha and Joe Cocker and Robert Palmer all on one show and Billy Vera and Pickett we had to record the night before because we get to Detroit. We had to go to Detroit because my friend Joel Gallen who managed Felix Cavalieri when I worked with Felix

then got with Sid Vintage who was a video producer out here and started doing these things and then he sort of spearheaded the unplugged thing later for mtv joel and did really well with that but meanwhile he's just starting out and he says he calls me up he says jimmy remember when you told me if i ever work with james brown that you would carry guitars well i need you to come in and do arrangements for this show i said and he said and i'll carry your guitar and I'll give you 500

bucks. And I said, all right, get me to Detroit. So I had to do charts and I had to teach James Brown's band. This is great to play all this music, other people's music. James Brown's band, really, they don't really read, you know, the horn players could read some. So I wrote horn charts. I had charts and I, now I had to take them through. And they learned really fast, man. They were really. And I had both drummers going. It was great.

I had to do it. And then James, I turn around and somebody taps me on the shoulders. Mr. Brown wants to speak to you. So I go down there. And there he is. He's dressed like he's got a scarf, a green jumpsuit on. His hair is coiffed, his sunglasses on, you know. Yeah.

And he says, I got to lean into him, right? Yeah. How come you got two drummers playing? Two drummers don't play at the same time. I said, oh, I didn't know that, Mr. Brown. Yeah. He says, well, I'll let it go, but not in my band, not with my music. Because he said

it sounds good and they were playing Addicted to Love and it was killing me and Robert Palmer and all these guys are going nuts that they get to sing

with James Brown's band James Brown I'm not sure if he likes the idea of his band backing other people up right you know

and this is a secret process that only he gets to do with that right right right and then uh the best was so joe cocker comes and he says meet me the day before i gotta figure out what key joe you know you're gonna sing when a man loves a woman so we he goes well meet me in the bar yeah and then we had to get some heavy drinking boots on you know yeah and then we got there was a piano in the bar. We got around to the piano like three in the morning. I'm playing. Well, I'm mad.

He goes, higher. Well, I'm mad. He goes, higher. I said, how are you going to know when it's the right key? He says, when it hurts. Yeah. I'll know I'm in the right key. Really?

And then he's doing it, and he killed it, man. Yeah. He was really sweet. I loved him, man. Man, could that guy sing. Right? And Billy Vera, I don't know if you remember him. Yeah.

He was there to sing out of sight you know he was thrilled he's such a such a music you know not such a musicologist yeah i mean he's like a professor about this shit man so when did you like uh so like all this time you're doing arrangements on records as well yeah whatever you know whatever i could whatever i can uh whatever work It seemed like you never stopped working. Yeah, all I wanted to do was work. I didn't want to ever be an artist. Right. You know, I didn't.

But when did you start tracking down these old blues guys? Well, that happened through the Lone Star Cafe back then. I used to work there. In the 80s? In the 80s. And like I would back up Benny King, you know. Yeah. And.

I saw Bo Diddley there almost. Yeah, I backed up Bo, and I played organ with Bo a while back. Yeah. And then I would work with... Mike Merritt came in. He was working with Johnny Copeland at the time. He was playing bass with me still. Mike and James Wormworth was the drummer.

And they had a tour coming with Johnny Johnson, so I started working in that band. And that was the real learning point of the blues. Even though I had seen Muddy when I was a kid and he would let me up on stage and I'd play with Pinetop, you know. You did? I'd play those guys with alcohol, you know.

What are you drinking? Where was that at? Opened like the show place in Dover, New Jersey. My friend was their road manager that I went to high school with. So you played with Muddy? Well, only piano, some piano. But the presence of him backstage, and he was so nice all the time. And so I would start going to see these guys when they'd come around, any of them.

The Lone Star used to put a lot of them on. Yeah, and then I got to play with Pinetop, and I got to play with Johnny Johnson. And I never played with Willie. You know, I played with Junior Wells. I played with, you know, he was great. Oh, he was the best. Never sober. We've discovered now, though, that me and a couple of my friends are the new old guys,

and there's no old guys left. The old guys that we saw weren't that old, you know, when we saw them. Yeah. A lot of those guys didn't live too long. So, all right, so Max pulls you in. Well, he pulled me in, and then we did an audition, and it turns out that Jeff Ross, you know, that's not Jeffrey Ross, or not Jeff Ross, the other Jeff Ross.

Yeah, there's like three Jeff Rosses out there that we know. But Jeff Ross was the road manager for Diana Ross. Is that true? Yes. Funny that they used to call him Mr. Rosses out there that we know. But Jeff Ross was the road manager for Diana Ross. Is that true? Yes. Funny that they used to call him Mr. Ross, but he wasn't really. But in the band, in Diana's touring band, was Pender and La Bamba. Yeah. So when we walk in, he sees them, and it's like almost a done deal.

Yeah. You know? Of course. them and it's like almost a done deal yeah you know of course uh i'm not sure robert smigel was involved robert smigel was a producer also on the first show on the first season yeah so he he loved us too you know and conan loved it so you know there might have been one guy that wanted uh you know the lounge lizards you know and john john lurie's john lurie's band wanted you know the Lounge Lizards you know John Lurie's band John Lurie's band but you know

it turns out that John Lurie anyway did okay because he actually wrote the first theme you know he did? well yeah

but yeah of the Conan O'Brien show? yeah a person whose name will be unnamed right now what do I care? yeah

so I'm I might as well say this what can happen? Nothing. Nothing can happen. So, you know, we get the gig. Right.

You know, Howard Shore, who was Lorne's buddy. Right. And, you know, an Academy Award winning, you know, orchestra, rather a composer. Right. Composer. Yeah. Was Saturday Night Live, you know, MD for a long time. Right. And wrote everything up there. Right. Composer. Yeah. Was Saturday Night Live, you know,

MD for a long time. Right. Wrote everything up there. Right. He says, all right, well, I wrote a theme,

you know, I wrote a theme. Me and Max put a theme together and he says, I'm going to write the theme. I'm going to write. That's a fucking paycheck forever.

Okay, I'm going to write the theme. So, the very first idea I hear is our idea of bass and drums going... I said, oh, that's interesting. And then I hear the other part. You know, I hear the other... You know?

Yeah. You know, I hear that. I said, well, that's interesting. It's very Thelonious Monk-like. It's very cool. Yeah. But I was getting... He would fax me at the time.

We were still on fax machines in 94, 93. Yeah. Oh, here's a little bit. And then put them all together, and then we put the whole thing together. I said, wow, it's amazing the way this guy works. He just keeps feeding me little bits and putting them together like a puzzle. And then we got this amazing piece out of it. Yeah.

Boy, he writes weird. Yeah. The show's going on for about six weeks jeff ross calls me into the office and says uh we got a problem yeah john lurie called me says that's his theme so i said well simply let's look at john lurie's audition tape and there it is boom note for note no shit there it is wow the theme yeah the whole thing right yeah and then you know the answer was well i always intended to pay him and split it and ends up so ends up lorry didn't get the gig but he got a lot of bread out of the for the first what 10 years well you know for the

first 16 years so he did all right he did okay john did yeah without having to put up you know without having to actually come to work but but i'll tell you that it's a great story it's a funny story you know i mean but that seems but that's it's so lazy to do that you know and whether he may have intended to bring john in i who the hell knows but john had to call and say what's up you know and it wasn't my job right to research the song right so anyway it all it all turned out that John got half of his song anyway. Oh, good. So half of something is better than all of nothing. He seems like you don't want to fuck with that guy.

He's a cranky guy. And he's in those Jarmusch movies, right? He's in Mystery Train. Yeah, but he's also like, I see him on Twitter. I want to interview him, but he's in New York. Remember the fishing show he had? Yeah, I love the guy. I love the Lounge Wizards.

Oh, yeah. Steve Bernstein's a friend of mine who was in that band and part of that downtown scene. What do you want to play? I'll play you a song. We'll debut a song of mine that hasn't been... Can I handle it? Yeah, sure you can.

It's like a Jimmy Reed song reed all right except there's a little one little thing it's a yeah you can play the phil's you'd be the second guy hey i'm okay yeah Sometimes you need a little something Then you need a little something more Nothing you can buy at your five and dime Or your local convenience store You gotta itching for it You gotta itching for it, boy You got a itching for something Itching you just can't scratch Might be a little bit of moonshine Might be a little railroad gin

Might be a little bit of china white Off of a boat that's just coming, you gotta itching for it You gotta itching for it You gotta itching for it. You got an itching for something, boy. Itching you just can't scratch.

Sometime you do a little evil. And you call your backdoor friend. Every time her husband slipping out, you go sliding in. You got an itching for it. Yes, you got an itching for it. Man, you got an itching for something, child. Man, you just can't scratch it Scratch one out for me Go! Well, it might be a little piece of candy Might be a little piece of cake

When your nose is open and your mouth go dry There's only so much you can take You got an itching for it Yeah, it's an itching for it You got an itching, boy You just can't scratch.

Yeah, sometimes life is like a card game, and we gamble from day to day. Sometimes you hold a winning hand, but you ain't got no dough left to play. You gotta itching for it. You gotta itching for it. You gotta itching for something boy. You just can't scratch it. You gotta itching

for it. You gotta itching for it You got a itching for it You got a You got a You got a You gotta... You gotta... Yeah! Big fun. yeah big fun so now um you're the band leader you're the guy yeah and was that was that like when you take a gig like that like you know you do all those years on the old show and then he brings you in to be the tonight show band that must have been like now i'm the tonight show band

yeah and then he keeps he keeps you in the loop and now you're the you're the the band leader and the star of the show as a as a lifetime musician this is a great gig well i mean to work 20 years at anything in this business yeah uh and then and then find out you got more time coming yeah yeah yeah it's it's nice and and um you know the the uh rude awakening that we all received and for the man who i would be ever uh feel like a brother conan to to rally like a father from a big irish family right everything's gonna be okay kids i think he saw his father in this same situation in life and felt all of us as family and treated us that way. And he said to me when it happened, he said, you're going to hear something before it happened. But I want you to know you're going to hear something in a couple of minutes. Yeah.

I want you to know everything's going to be OK. Uh-huh. You know, and we're doing the right thing. Right. You know, And we are. Now, I think we're like a little commune up on the hill. Right. You know, growing our own food. Right.

Hunting our own deer or whatever we're doing. Maybe we're vegetarians. Maybe we have Birkenstock sandals. I don't know. But we're looking down into the valley and watching the idiots war and kill each other in the networks. Yeah. You know?

Scrambling like chickens without heads, not knowing what's happening. And you and I know the landscape is drastically changing, and we're trying to stay on top of that with social media and everything else that's happening. You know, we're allowed to do this. I mean, you can be here doing this in this country, you know? And we don't care about the corporate suits anymore.

They're not breathing down our necks here. Yeah. And we felt that at Universal. When we were over there and moved to Hollywood. Yeah. Those guys were lurking like slime on the walls then. Yeah. Every day.

Yeah. Second guessing every move we made. Yeah. Sucking all the funny out. Right. You know, and trying to make us common. It made him tense. Yeah.

Yeah. It made everything tense. And we're just coming around from that knockout punch. Sure. You know? and trying to make us common. It made him tense. Yeah, yeah. It made everything tense. And we're just coming around from that knockout punch. Sure. You guys are doing great. And you still go out and play and do your shit? Yeah. And you know, there's one more chapter that the most important thing that happened to me

was the time I spent in Woodstock and being neighbors with Levon Helm. Uh-huh. You know, and right when he got sick, i went over there every day that i could and hang out with him yeah throat cancer yeah and and uh i was there doing a uh i was up doing a uh a uh one of the happy trams uh you know instructional videos with johnny johnson on boogie woogie piano we were taping it and levon heard johnny was in town he came over and he had just gotten from his first radiation his neck was like red yeah with aloe dripping from it the steam was still coming off yeah he just wanted to meet johnny johnson and he said to me jimmy v and he

named me jimmy v because he vivino was a name that was wasn't coming out of his arkansas mouth you know it's vivano so he just called me Jimmy V, and from then I'm still that. And he said, you ought to bring Johnny over to the barn and bring a truck up and record him while we're up here, you know? And I did. And I rented a piano.

With Levon on drums? Levon, Rick played, Garth played, Richard Bell played. Danko played? Yeah, they're all gone, you know, and Johnny Johnson played. What album's that?

It's not, it's, I'm still sitting on it. How's it sound? It's 15 years ago. I'm thinking of putting it out now. How's it sound? It sounds great.

Holy shit. It's, I cut 27 tracks or something. Who sang? Everybody? Well, it's mostly my record. It's my record, but Rick and I and Limon did some backups,

and Rick did most of the vocals with me. And Johnny Johnson, we did it basically because Johnny was there. Then I came back again. We did two sessions in October of 99, and 15 years now, I've been sitting on it because guys were dropping one by one. And I was like, I can't put this out. I can't be one of those posthumous guys. Like, you know, because somebody died, something comes out.

Now it's been a long time for all of them. And, you know, and... Now put it out now out of respect. Yeah, I'm going to put it out now. I'm going to put it out now. I'm working on it now. Now, out of all the guys you played with, you know, you were the story on the seagrass sessions uh well i wasn't part of that at all are you doing part no no i bruce i i worked with bruce a couple of times it was great i was in

uh i was in um you know we worked a couple of those christmas shows down in asbury park that was just great we had great fun and uh i played bass on one track, but I didn't get credited. That was the only time you worked with him? I didn't get credited because nobody but E Street Band guys get credited. But I got paid. They said to me, hey, we paid you. Who was the best? When you talk about Keith.

He was great in the room, though. He's a nice guy. Bruce in the room with his book yeah writing songs in front of your very eyes yeah you know yeah yeah but who's the like you talk about keith and you know the guys who you know you got like you are you have the opportunity to drive your band but when you're working with leave on leave on when we did the you know we put the barn burners together yeah and then we and then um after that we started the ramble there, you know? So working with, turning around with Levon Helm on drums and Garth, you know, sometimes, being around those guys,

for me too, like everyone else we've talked about, there's something that comes out of them. As I saw them many times as a unit and was blown away every time, no matter what shape they were in, something great. It was kind of like a jalopy with bad springs going down the road. It'll get you there. Yeah.

Just don't get sick. And so some people that you wouldn't imagine, a guy named Willie Nile, who I've known for so long long every time i played with him pure yeah like punk rock you know pure uh bb king anytime yeah you know anytime al cooper john sebastian my friends felix cavalieri you know all these great players johnny johnson was key levon was key in my my upbringing even at an older age I was still learning stuff from these guys like what well you know leave on Johnny Johnson was great and what I'd say and you know at look at shooting you will look across the stage if you were playing too busy right you know Bernard Purdy was great and saying that if your rhythm is louder than my hi-hat then it's too loud when you solo you can play as loud as you want.

But when you're playing rhythm, you better hear my hi-hat. And the bass player better be with my bass drum. I mean, this is the greatest drummer, one of the greatest drummers ever. And when they give you advice, you better listen to them. And Levon's thing was, he was great, man, about don't play it the way anyone else has ever played it. I realized with Levon that thing was, he was great, man, about don't play it, you know, the way anyone else has ever played it. I realized with Levon that the arrangements came from within.

Right. He didn't want anybody walking in like what I was used to doing, saying, okay, here's your part, here's your part. He was like, let's get it out of each player. This is the way the band must have operated. Right. That it was an organic thing. It came together. You know, they took time to make arrangements.

It didn't, nobody wrote it down and said, here's how it goes. Just kept playing it. And each person was responsible for their yard, you know? Yeah. And then their own side of the street, as it were. Right, right. But at the same time, you have to be aware of what's going on around you, and there's a space that needs to happen.

They were great at, you know, Garth would weave. You know, Levon said when we cut this record about 15 years ago, he said, I went back for the second set of sessions after Johnny Johnson had gone back to St. Louis and Mike and James were in New York. And I said to Lee, how about if I call, you know, Rick and Weider and Randy and you and Garth and Richard Bell and we do it like, you know, because, well, we we haven't played together in the studio for years. I said, well, you need to, you know, for me, you need to.

So he said, yeah, but I'll tell you one thing. Don't bring Garth in for the sessions. Garth, he goes, bake the cake and then Garth will put the icing on in the end, you know all the fancy stuff but the cake itself has to get baked you know first and he knew from years that this guy was a Garth is a genius yeah you know no one else that I know is a genius Laura Nero may have been a genius too she taught me a lot you know about singing her and felix cavallari and uh and eddie brigatti from the rascals they taught me more about singing than anybody you know yeah and laura nero too you know and and dion right you know dion demucci yeah that's just and we're still working together we're gonna make a record uh he does some blues records yeah yeah yeah we're gonna

make one in october i'm gonna somewhere i had no idea that he was doing those blues records. They're pretty amazing. Yeah, because I put, when he came out of just singing Christian music, and we did a big show. I didn't know he did that. Yeah, we did a big show. My friend Dick Fox called me, who was going to manage Dion, and he used to put all those oldies shows together. I said, Dion's not an oldies guy, man.

He's a rock and roll guy. You know, Lou Reed was hanging with him and shit. And we put a great show together at that we the reunion of him and a lot of the belmonts you know and again and the dell satins and and we did like his entire book including abraham martin and john like everything and then we just got to be buddies like bronx buddies yeah you know and we're still really great friends to this day and we're going to work together more did you know any of those punk guys? Did you know Thunders and those guys?

I knew Thunders. Because, you know, Johansson and I are really tight. We work with Hubert together, and he knew my brother Floyd, and David was always one of my buddies, man. So, you know, Thunders, I met. We had gone up to some fucking shooting gallery together or something. And I didn't know where I was going. Right.

We were out somewhere at a club and we said, let's jam. Yeah. Johnny said, I said, okay. So we go up to this place, it's like a loft and people are just laying around. Yeah, yeah. There was instruments set up though. Yeah. And then by the time we, and I was not doing any of that.

I was just drinking. Yeah. You know, I didn't know what was going on. And then we the time we, and I was not doing any of that. I was just drinking. Yeah. I didn't know what was going on. Right. And then we were going to play and nothing was happening, man. You know? And I realized that this is a long process to get something happening.

With him. Yeah. He really meant well to play. Yeah. He wanted to play. Yeah. But he couldn't play. Yeah. You know, at that point.

Though he made some great music. He did. I think the Heartbreaker stuff is some of my favorite. Yeah, yeah. You know, at that point. Though he made some great music. He did. I think the Heartbreaker stuff is some of my favorite. It's great. Chinese rocks. It's great. You know, some of that stuff. And that first fucking New York Dolls record.

Yeah, yeah. Him and Jerry Nolan were great together. Yeah, both of them did. Yeah, yeah. And Dee Dee, you know. Yeah. The Heartbreakers with Dee Dee and him and Jerry. And Dee Dee gone.

Yeah. You know, I knew Joey pretty good. Joey was a sweet guy. He was like us with records. Yeah. You know, Joey was, and Joeyi gone yeah you know i i knew joey pretty good i i joey was a sweet guy he was like us with records yeah you know joey was and joey would talk to you like he was so tall yeah yeah yeah yeah talk out of the side of his mouth so i got this you know that record by the the the teddy bears you know like the most yeah yeah and he was he was a he was a final nut, man. Like 45s. Yeah. Oh, he really liked Yolk.

You know, what's on A side, B side, label. Oh, really? Like that scene in Diner. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Where they, you know. Yeah, he was that guy. Where Daniel Stern's like, okay, I'm not going to marry you. Tell me what's the B side of this record, you know?

Right, right, right. Yeah, yeah. What color was the label? You know, it was really great. I'm not that much of a nerd, but I like listening to the music. No, I mean, you know good music, man. You know what you like and what you don't like. I keep learning new stuff.

I keep hearing stuff that I never knew. It's amazing, like stuff I missed. And it's great to be able... That's the great thing about music is you can always discover it. It doesn't go away. Well, the great thing about New York you can always discover it it doesn't go away well the great thing about uh new york at the time that i was playing there in in the early 90s was in the 80s was i got to you know through through my playing in a club uptown i got to know donald fagan i got to know warren haynes i got to know derrick trucks when he was a kid you know

all these guys would come into this club i played and we would play. Yeah. You know, I had a band with Harvey Brooks, a little big band. Yeah. And we played at a place called Hades on 94th Street. And Fagan lived around the corner. And he would come and sit in, you know. And then we started doing these New York nights things and these rock and soul reviews. And one night Walter Becker walks in and he's walking along the wall. And me, I'm just going to be the big mouth Italian and call him up.

Right. Make him, shame him into coming up. Right. And he was very private. He didn't want to play. Yeah. But he did play and then Steely Dan got back together. Right.

Because they realized that they should be playing together. Why not? Now Walter and I have this love-hate relationship. Yeah. That's great. Well, that's the amazing thing about New York too and maybe a little in LA, but it seems seems more New York is that people go out. You go four blocks to see your buddy play, and then if you set up an environment where you can make that shit happen, they're like, come on, come on.

And your band can hold it, so you hold the space for these guys to be able to do that. I think what keyed Walter was when Donald and I were doing these gigs together. Someone took a picture of me and Donald and then there's a Steely Dan bootleg that came out on CD and it's a picture of me and Donald and Walter sends it to me and he says, what's this? I send him back. I said, you were never that good looking, first of all. Second of all,

all that means is you should be playing with Donald and it shouldn't be me on the cover of that CD. Yeah. And then they got back together. Because he's a brilliant cat, man. Yeah. And I was such a fan of those guys. And we get to meet them, and most of the time, Michael McDonald, greatest guy, man,

you meet these guys, Boz Skaggs, and you find them along the way that 99% of the people you love are great people. Except for Chuck Berry. Yeah, but to everybody, if he could punch Keith Richard and he could like diss John Lennon

on the Mike Douglas show, well then why not me? Yeah, it's just a general problem. Listen, I was walking out of NBC once and Rickles was around, you know,

and I had my long black coat on and a hat and he goes, and I let him in the elevator and he says, thank you, Rabbi. I said, well, that's good. I got insulted byickles in a way i got recognized that's right that's right it's like bob dylan if he says something good or bad to you he said something to you have you

had experience with him uh i don't want to i don't talk about it but yeah i love bob dylan you don't talk about it i love him him. You played with him? Yeah. But we've had moments. Sometimes any connection with these guys is enough. Doesn't matter, good or bad. It doesn't matter. On a good day, you don't get a good day every day. No, no.

And just the fact that they see you for better or or worse, in a room and recognize you is enough. Sure. I've had mostly good experiences. Yeah, good. And unlike anybody else, there will never be another Bob Dylan. Nobody will ever be as great as Bob Dylan to me, as important in my life, because I think that he's in the center of all of this. What's happening right you know what and and will be for now he made a frank sinatra record or something he made a record like a at capital or something i don't know he made like a it's not out yet sort

of a no i know it's not out yet but he made some sort of a standards record interesting but you know i mean why not well now also with the the way that the singer-songwriter thing is happening again, he's just really still at the center of it. Well, I mean, every record has great songs on it. Yeah, no doubt. You know, and always have. And boy, that last one, the Duquesne Whistle, the very first song on it, just kills me.

And the Roman Kings, I mean, there's just so much great music. Yeah, he's just a it's he's just a mountain well you know a good you know a a a great writer doesn't have to just write about their life you know what happens with and comedy too and and and music a lot of people become complacent in their success right and they can't write anymore right or they can't be funny anymore right but a true writer can't stop doesn't really he's not just telling you about himself or what's going on in his life. He's an observation, you know? Yeah.

He can always see and feel, and he's also well-read. Right, right. So, fiction. Right, and he also has got that hunger. He's still hunting. And fiction is the biggest part of his life. He's the biggest bullshitter going. He always has been, right?

Always. He invented himself. Sure. Always. Every few years. Yeah. Yeah, no, I could use a little fiction. Well, no, I mean, you? Always. He invented himself. Sure. Always. Every few years. Yeah. Yeah, no, he's, I could use a little fiction. Well, no, I mean, you know, we go through it.

We go through the same thing. We're like in purgatory with women and with everything else. Yeah. I just keep perpetuating the same fucking mistake, you know, but that's okay. I do too. Yeah, but as long as it's not with the same person over and over again. Well, the trick is not to get cynical. Well, then neither of us have a career.

All right, Jimmy. Thanks, man. Yeah. How amazing was that? I got to play with Jimmy Vivino. I think I did okay. I think I dropped the ball for a second, but I did all right. It was nerve-wracking.

I was nervous. I think I dropped the ball for a second, but I did all right. It was nerve-wracking. I was nervous. Love that guy. Go to JimmyVivino.com if you want to pick up his record and check out the history of Jimmy Vivino. It isn't great to, like, you know, you see that guy in Conan, and now you know that guy. What a great musician. I love him.

I love him. Go to WTFpod.com. Get that app if you want it. JustCoffee.coop, as always. They've been with me for years, since before this show. JustCoffee.coop has been with me. Yeah, they were one of my first advertisers back when I was doing a streaming video show. All right, let's see if I can manage this fucking guitar.

I think I'm just going to do, like, I can't, you can't do any songs because then I have to pay for them. But that's fortunate because I don't know too many songs. But let's see, maybe I'll get on a psychedelic muddy riff. Not a muddy Waters riff, but just a muddy. I like three chords. Three chords is good. Shut up.

If you're gonna play play Thank you. guitar solo I don't know what just happened there. Boomer lives! You can get anything you need with Uber Eats. Well, almost almost anything. So no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats. But iced tea and ice cream? Yes, we can deliver that.

Uber Eats. Get almost almost anything order now product availability may vary by region see app for details it's a night for the whole family be a part of kids night when the toronto rock take on the colorado mammoth at a special 5 p.m start time on saturday march 9th at first ontario center in hamilton the first 5 000 fans in attendance will get a dan dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5 p.m. in Rock City at torontorock.com.