WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 563 - Jason Nash

Episode Date: December 28, 2014

Close out the year with a WTF that harkens back to the days of old, when Marc and his guests stomped through the wreckage of strained relationships and bad feelings. This time it's with actor and comedian Jason Nash, who never believed Marc liked him and is not so sure Marc liked his movie, Jason Nash Is Married. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Along with your favorite restaurant food, groceries, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing.

With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Oh, my God. Oh, God. What the fuckers?

What the fuck, buddies? What the fuck is in my throat? God damn it. What just happened? Jeez. I think we should keep that. I don't think we should edit that out. That was real.

Maybe I'm the idiot for eating a large bowl of air popped popcorn before I go on the mic. Welcome to the show. I'm Mark Maron. This is WTF. That was disconcerting and jarring. I'm sorry, folks. I'm sorry if we didn't ease into this properly. But I think you felt the emotions of that. I clearly almost was in trouble there and I'm not. I lived through whatever was in my throat uh there was a small victory in whatever happened at the beginning of this episode and

and that and that's the way we want to go out of the of this year and into the new year we want to i you know beating death uh again all right well maybe it wasn't that bad maybe i'm over i'm overplaying it a little bit. What is going on? Are you having a good holiday? Today is Jason Nash Day here on the show. Jason Nash, the comedian and actor and writer, Jason Nash, whose movie Jason Nash is Married is available on iTunes and Amazon. Jason Nash I've known for years. not a great relationship on my side.

Not something has always irked me a little about him. I've always felt that he was aggressive and hostile. So going into this interview, that's what I felt and assumed, even though he brought gifts, brought juice, brought stuff. It was a contentious and engaging interview that really was hands-on. It was old-style, old-style WTF stuff. Before I do anything else, before i say anything really of any worth if you consider what i say worthy or worthwhile season two of my show marin is on netflix now as of yesterday it went up so if you didn't see it because you don't have ifc you now can watch season two of Marin on Netflix. It's a great season. A lot of great featured

performers. CM Punk, Hardwick, Michael Ian Black, Caroline Ray, Sarah Silverman, Joey Diaz, Bill Burr, Paul Feig, Nate Bargettzi's in there, Sally Kellerman, Judd Hirsch, Josh Brenner. Everyone's back with some very funny people to help it along. Married in Season 2 on Netflix now. All right, now where are we? Alive? I'm having a hard time today, man. I'm having a hard time finding the will to talk, the will to do.

Sometimes it just gets sucked out of you. Sometimes you wake up and something has come in the night and just sucked your will out of your face right up through your orifices out your ears and nose and mouth and fed on it the will suckers they're out there they're invisible they come in at night they uh they usually travel with the other night creatures will suckers are small apparitions that are known to ride the backs of possums into the night under your house. Be wary of the will suckers. That's all I'm saying. Sometimes it's not depression.

Sometimes it's got nothing to do with a goddamn ghost coming in and feeding on your chi while you sleep. All right. Call me superstitious. your chi while you sleep. All right? Call me superstitious. Call me whatever you want. I've had some weird thoughts about this shit lately, people. I've had some weird thoughts about God. I've had some weird thoughts about technology. One of the things that's always annoyed me about people's belief in God

is when they pray or they pray for mundane things like a parking space where they work or perhaps um for a certain thing to be on the menu where they enjoy eating uh for uh you know for for mundane petty conveniences my thought is is that do you really believe that god if there be such a thing, has time for that shit? You think that God has time for everybody's little sort of like, I got to make sure she gets a parking space or at least try. I always had a problem with that, with the idea that God is going to waste his time when there's, you know, bigger issues at stake. going to waste his time when there's you know bigger issues at stake most of them man-made most of them most of the problems we're experiencing in the world are direct results of human beings being fucking idiots of one kind or another murderous fucking idiots

racist fucking idiots non-caring fucking idiots capitalistic fucking idiots just you know fucking idiots humankind is filled with fucking idiots doesn't god have to address that stuff first but i always had this issue with the mathematics of it how can god make time for your bullshit when idiots are ruining the fucking world and i started and then i got an email or not an email i was online and something was suggested at me based on something that i looked at online some other time they the mining of information personal information that is then used to uh to exploit your desires and perhaps provoke you to buy some shit and that happens to everybody who is online which is most people and i thought to myself well jesus christ if they can figure out technologically how to do that you can tell me that god can't

manage a parking space for for me if i him for one, maybe on a given day. You know, if mankind can pull it off and service all of our little desires through programming in order to get us to buy things or service our desires by paying for things, then we have to assume that if there is a God that, yeah, I guess he can look into the menu at the place you like to eat or perhaps find you a parking space. I'm going to go ahead and make a concession here and say that if God has time or if he's paying attention in a full hearted way, he might be able to help you out with the little things. and the only reason I'm doing I'm saying that is because technologically we seem to be able to fucking get up in people's shit

in a very intimate way with fairly limited information so if technology is either surpassing God or at least on the same playing field if you believe in that kind of stuff you got to believe

in technology because that is a given and it will fuck you and if you believe in God then that is also a given and he will fuck you she it the thing doesn't end well for anybody. Merry Christmas. Happy New Year. The writing for Marin is coming along. I'm writing my script. We all have our scripts to write. Do you know how television writing works? I'll give you a breakdown. This is how it works.

Because everybody writes. We sit around in the initial phases. I come up with a bunch of stories. Then I sit around with the guys, meave anthony sievert glarem michael jammin uh sean russell jerry stall dave anthony we all sit in a room and uh i come up with a bunch of stories they come up with some stories we uh mash the stories together we decide what the stories are then we we parse them out and then we break them down into a three-act structure as a story and then we write a one pager and that's sort of the pitch of the story and then someone gets assigned the script and that person goes off and writes an outline

then we all go over the outline and then that person goes and writes a script then we all go over the script paid for page for page and and make it funnier or or uh or fix it or or do things to it or or flesh it out or whatever needs to be done then we send it off to the to the production company we send it off to the network we send it off to the studio everybody gets their copy everybody gets notes and he's each of the sets of notes come back we put the screen back up on the lift and get under it and start retooling and figuring out how we can uh be diplomatic and honor notes so these things go through a collective rewrite and they go through a you know series of notes processes but everything's coming along

fine i have to write the script that i've been assigned this season and i i will do anything but write when i have to, my house gets very clean. I make air pop popcorn. I cook squash. I do things. I clean out holes in the ground. But it's a tricky episode that involves my ex-wife, so maybe it's emotional, maybe not.

Maybe it's just my process. Maybe I gotta wait till the last minute. Maybe I gotta just hate myself till I wanna crawl out of my fucking skin before I do any creative work. Merry Christmas. Happy New Year. Okay. Jason Nash now.

Jason Nash. Strap in. Don't strap on. Strap in. Let's talk to Jason Nash. You can get anything you need with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats.

But iced tea and ice cream? Yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats, get almost, almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Calgary is a city built by innovators. Innovation is in the city's DNA.

And it's with this pedigree that bright minds and future-thinking problem solvers are tackling some of the world's greatest challenges from right here in Calgary. From cleaner energy, safe and secure food, efficient movement of goods and people, and better health solutions, Calgary's visionaries are turning heads around the globe, across all sectors, each and every day. Calgary's on the right path forward. Take a closer look how at calgaryeconomicdevelopment.com. I don't attach happiness to success, you know. I don't really care about that at this point in my life. At this point in your life?

Yeah. It's all been beaten out of you. Yeah, I don't give a shit. It means nothing to me. And this podcast means nothing to me. Being here means nothing to me. You can kick me out now. See, this is the general thing that I know about you, Jason,

is that you say these things that should have a sense of peace at the core of them, yet it does not. No, I am. I've gotten to that point where I realize it's all not important and there's nothing that someone can do to me that's going to make me happier or less happy. Mm-hmm. You know?

Yeah. Well, no, so it's an inside job, as they say. Have you heard that expression? You mean... You're not gonna get happiness from external... You mean like 9-11? Yes, there's a conspiracy that's taken you down from the inside,

and it's... That Rumsfeld had a part no just your parents usually yeah starts there yeah but i've uh i've known you for a long time i i remember when you started coming around i remember you were sweaty your hair was longer this is was very hostile by the way since the minute i walked. Hostile. I'm always a little hostile with you. No, not at all. Are you hostile with all the guests? No. No, Henry Rollins you're not hostile with. No.

Wanda Sykes, not hostile. No. But there was a shitload of hostility when I walked in. It started with, I'll tell the audience, hey, let's get to you, you annoying fuck. That's how it started. Right. Okay, and I brought juice. I brought a gift.

Yeah. And even then, it was like you had it planned. Thank you for the juice. Is this, yeah, go ahead. We can start over. I don't know. I think this is the best part. No, I brought some.

I have my own baggage. Baggage towards me? Not much. Okay, no, I didn't think. I think this is the best part. No, I brought some. I have my own baggage. Baggage towards me? Not much. Okay. No, I didn't think you had any. I mean, I don't know why you would have any. There's not a problem between us. I don't find that there's a problem between us.

Not until about five minutes ago. No, not even that. I'm just being cranky, Mark. You're not unfamiliar with that. You know what i'm capable of you know my my persona you know me kind of you know that i i can be a little a little irascible at times i really do know that and when people would talk about you and say oh he's so gruff he's so irascible i would say no no he's doing a bit yeah he's doing a bit he's a comedian

you could see at your root that you have a lot of humanity right right so i was just doing a bit. Yeah. He's doing a bit. He's a comedian. And you could see at your root that you have a lot of humanity. Right, right. So I was just doing a bit, kind of. Yeah, but I guess it was the annoying, when you called me annoying, fuck. That made me think, oh, I did something to piss him off as it's the first line. But maybe it's all a... Just busting balls. Can I do that?

Can I assume that intimacy with you since I've known you since you were a child, it feels like? You're right. You can. I thought maybe you could absorb it. I remember the first thing you ever said to me. Yeah. What was it? We were at Luna Lounge.

And you go, you go, I just got off stage. You go, there he is. The Lower East Side sensation. Really? Yeah. I'm all angry. Remember when you were a sensation? Yeah, I had something go well for myself.

You were so mad that someone else had a nice set. See, so why were you surprised at Annoying Fuck? Because I thought you had, because I thought you had totally grown. I have grown. I know you have. I listen to the show. But you know,

it's like you and I are locked in whatever happened there. That was the last time we exchanged words. Maybe a couple of times backstage where you were worked up. Well, see, maybe I have a hard time. You had me on your show at a live show. Right.

Maybe I have a hard time. You don't remember. I do. I do. You were yelling. I did good, actually. I have no recollection're yelling i did good actually i have no record i did very good i have no record prepared a joke or two about you and then it didn't went well i have no recollection of any of that happening for you but um i think that one one of the i can discuss my exact issues with you i guess if you you know if you want to do that.

Yeah, of course. Sometimes, uh, from the very beginning, I think years ago you used to do a preacher character, didn't you? Yeah. I remember that like a lot.

You used to do it a lot. It was almost like it was a character that you were locking into, right? Like you were like that guy for a while. Yeah. Right. It was like, you were this,

it was like, that was when you were a lower east side sensation. You did that preacher yeah right it was like you were this it was like that was when you were a lower east side sensation you did that preacher guy it was like all you did i did other things but that was the thing that people seemed to like right and so you you sort of became that character for a bit yeah yeah and i liked it okay i think my initial reaction was like oh it's a preacher character. Yep, I know, I know. Yeah. I had my problems with it too.

What were your problems with it? It was a preacher character. But you try to figure stuff out. I was working at Saturday Night Live as an assistant and you're like, I want to do comedy. I don't know how. I couldn't go up there and be're like, I want to do comedy. I don't know how. I couldn't go up there and be myself. I was afraid to be myself. That innately bothers me.

It would have bothered me more then. I worked on it a lot and dropped all the characters. You mean it would bother you then or bother me now? Yeah, I'm just trying to track it. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I couldn't. I couldn't go up there and be me. In fact, I remember the first time I was,

I did like 20 minutes just telling people about myself, and it wasn't necessarily that funny. There were some funny parts. Right. And I remember the next morning, I was like, oh, God, that's the greatest. That is the greatest thing that I have ever done. Good feeling.

And we had the space and the time that was afforded us on the Lower East Side to do that type of work. This was in LA. It took me that long. And then the preacher thing I realized was like pretty hacky and Yeah, that would be the other problem I had with it.

But there were moments with it that were glorious. Yeah. Closing Stella and people loving it so you got that feeling like you know like this

yeah I got that feeling like God loves me yeah or to be able to go up there and ignite them

with something sure I certainly couldn't go up there and ignite them the way Bill Burr ignites a crowd or you watch someone kill

you know I couldn't do that but I could go up there. Why couldn't you do that? Because I wasn't a skilled stand-up. I was a character. It was a character that was yelling, and it had music behind it.

So the music behind it, combined with the yelling, created an awesome combustible thing. But you wanted to be a comic. I wanted to be funny yeah but then sometimes it wouldn't work yeah then i remember it was killing in new york and then stella brought me out to do an la show yeah and it bombed oh bad feeling the worst yeah and then i tried to but wait let's go back where the hell did you come from? Because I remember you were there sort of, not exactly at the beginning of Luna, but you all of a sudden were around the Lower East Side.

Everyone liked you, kind of. And you did the yelling preacher guy. But where'd you come from? Where'd you grow up? I grew up in Boston. You did? In the suburbs, yeah. Which suburb?

Medfield. Really? Yeah, Nita, Medfield. My dad lives in Nauwood. My mom's in Natick. Oh, really? Right in Natick. My suburb? Medfield. Really? Yeah, Nita, Medfield, my dad lives in Nauwood. My mom's in Natick. Oh really, right in Natick. My sister's in Acton. Oh really, everyone's over there.

Yeah, then I went to UMass Amherst. No shit. And my senior year. When'd you graduate college? 95. Okay, so what are you like, 45? 41. Okay.

I don't know where your math is, but before. I think you're reading into a lot of this. I think I was just trying to set a tone and we're backing up from it, but is there some party that wants to hold onto it? That's what's interesting. Is there some party that wants to hold onto it? And that thing I said to you at Luna,

you've held onto that a long time. I can feel that. No, that's not true. I've been listening to your show and you've- You do a podcast too, right? No, I don't do it anymore. Really? What happened?

It was too hard. Too hard? Yeah. To talk on the mic like that? To technically get it out and stuff, it was just too hard for me. I couldn't do both. So you went to UMass Amherst. You majored in what?

Communications. Meaningless. Yep. Okay. You have siblings? Yeah, I have an older sister. She's awesome. She's a very peaceful person.

Is that her job? No, she works in computers. She's just got like a nice life going for herself. Kids? No, no kids. Well, she has a stepson. She's gay, she's married, and she has a stepson. She's like, she was the real funny one growing up.

Yeah, what were you? Kind of serious? No, I was fat. The only Jew in my town. Really? Yeah, awful. I had a bunch of kids. I had friends in school, but they terrorized me. They would write Jew on my car.

You might have one of those personalities where everything's right up front with you and you just kind of want to take a shot you know yeah so the jew thing was just a means of entry a portal a bully a bully portal were you bullied i was um not too much because i was sort of clever i think and and i and I have a bit of a bully in me. Yeah. So if there were bullies, I would somehow try to outsmart them. And would you just start bullying somebody? No, but I think that not unlike what happened with you when you walked in when I said,

I got to deal with you, you annoying fuck. Yeah. I don't know if that's bullying. It's kind of up front, but it is antagonistic and preemptively offensive. Sometimes my sense of bullying was like, how do I get the upper hand

quickly and without causing too much trouble? Did that make you feel good that you had the upper hand quickly with me? No, you never... Oh, no. I had the upper hand before you got here. Okay. When you come into my house. Yeah.

Yeah. I don't know. What do you mean? I don't feel like you have the upper hand that much. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Well, see, I'm glad that you've taken whatever's happened in your childhood, and now you have

boundaries, and you're protected. You're ready to go. Like, you know, this guy is not going to fuck with me. I think that's great. Yeah, I expected... Don't make me feel bad. I won't. I won't say that.

What did you expect? I didn't expect some sort of mental Olympics here. Really? Yeah, I didn't expect that at all. Do you listen to the show? Yeah, I do. You seem to really like fawn over everybody and really like everybody.

I'm trying, Jason. I'm trying to fawn over you. I really am. I don't need you to. I'm happy to fucking go at it. I love it. We're not going at it. Yeah, we sort of are.

We're not. We were having a nice discussion about how you were bullied. I was about to ask you and then you asked me if I was bullied and I told you the truth about it. We're not going at it. Yeah, we sort of are. We're not. We were having a nice discussion about how you were bullied. I was about to ask you, and then you asked me if I was bullied, and I told you the truth about it. Yeah. And then you, and I said about the upper hand, and then you said, do you still like that? And I made an example, and then you were like, do you think you have the upper hand here?

And I made a joke, and then you sort of took it seriously. Let's go back in. And then you were like uh I don't think you have the upper hand see like you said that you said like I don't think I don't need the upper hand I don't need it but you said that right you said that defensively yeah because I might have said something is this about the message I sent you I'm about did you listen to the bit I sent you you didn't listen to it the preacher bit no I sent you a bit. Is this about the bit I sent you? Probably not.

Which bit? I think it is. The bit where I was, remember I sent you that bit? What was it about? It was about. Refresh my memory. It was about not coming on the show, and then I was saying how I defend you and how I like you. Oh, yeah, like it was an appeal.

Yeah. Yeah. So you did get it, but you're pretending like you didn't. I just don't remember. I'm busy. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Like it was an appeal. Yeah. Yeah. So you did get it, but you're pretending like you didn't. I just don't remember. I'm busy. Okay. You know, and now it is ringing a bell. Yeah.

And I saw it like, wow, this guy really wants to come on the show. Of course I do. Yeah. I want to promote my movie. I know you do. I got several calls about the movie. Good. Insisting that I watch the movie.

Good. And yesterday I said, I don't know if I'm going to have time to watch that fucking movie. If they want to move this thing up a few days. Yeah. We can do that. Good. Insisting that I watched a movie. Good. And yesterday I said I don't know if I'm going to have time to watch that fucking movie. If they want to move this thing up a few days, we can do that. Yeah. And you're here. I just got a message that said, tomorrow, be here. I don't know anything about that. That's right.

So you have people, and I got to deal with your people. Maybe that's bringing it. Is that, you don't normally deal with people? No, I do normally deal with people, but the fact that they've like... Are you mad that I have people? No, with your people. Maybe that's bringing it. Is that, you don't normally deal with people? No, I do normally deal with people, but the fact that they've like- Are you mad that I have people? No, I have people, but they- Maybe you don't think I'm on the level to have people.

No, I think anyone, all that takes is money. So the, no, they kept pestering- They kept bothering you. Yeah, and you had no idea about it. No, I don't know. Well, that just means your people are doing a good job for you right and so it was bothering you it was annoying it was like fuck this guy so that was

the annoying fuck my people should say that's my people say you annoying fuck oh won't you tell them nah i won't do that i like what they're doing i like them bothering you fucking making you irascible and making a good episode for this show. It's going pretty well. I think it's going really well. I watched the movie because your people bothered me. Good.

Because I've known you a long time and because I was like, all right, maybe he's done something finally. For his sake, I hope he's done something. As you said to me, I've been waiting 20 years for you to do something. Did I say that? You said that to me once. When did I do that? What do you got, Parkinson's?

What's going on with you? Maybe a little. I'm 50, and I'm busy. I have a lot of things going on. Some things become a blur. You're so busy, huh? I'm a little busy. Yeah, you like that?

It's okay. It's a little overwhelming, you know, because, like, I never understood, you know, how people don't respond to emails and shit, or, like, you know, because I used to get mad about it. Yeah. But like. You literally don't have time to answer. I know.

It's not even a matter of time. You just forget them. Yep. They just go by and you're like, oh shit. You know what I mean? There's four emails and you can only get to one. Right. Yeah.

And the one takes up. Yeah, I know. It just requires immediate attention. I know. I know when I email people and people don't email me back, I don't take it personally. I'm happy to see you. I'm happy to see you too.

You know, I will tell you that watching you do the podcast is just so inspiring. It really is because I knew you and I knew you were somebody that was way more talented than whatever was going on with you right because you know when you would go on i fucking go in and watch you like not a lot of people that'll go in and watch right right you know patricio nilsson i'll go right bill burr oh yeah i'm going in yeah and then you go on and then and then to watch you sort of watch this blow up you know it gave it really it gave me hope if i'm being totally honest

gave me hope like oh fuck like oh this fuck you know it could happen happen for him late right i don't know if it's late happens when it happens remember let's get back to spiritually from the beginning that you know it's going to happen when it happens and that that you know the the idea that something happening later or not happening on on time or or or not happening at all you know are all you know horrendous fears and eventually you you surrender all those fears and maybe it will happen maybe it won't you know what i mean i don't know there's just like i i'm not that zen about it but i can't it happened when it happened because i was ready for it to happen i don't know that i was ready for it to happen before i don't know if i could have handled it i'd had other opportunities this didn't go anywhere who knows why at the time you're like those fuckers they you know why didn't they give me a

chance and then when you really look back at stuff it's like what would i've done with that opportunity i don't know well you never brought you to what you were doing no i never was whole enough yeah i brought some version of me yep i think you have that issue as well. Oh, yeah. I'm terrible. And the thing, I think that what got me sort of weirded out about you is like you're one of these guys that, you know, you tried a lot of things. You did a lot of characters. There was this sort of, there was a lot of attempts at ridiculousness and absurdity and you know you know characters and that kind of stuff and i and i always saw you i always thought that you were incredibly aggravated under all that i mean i know you're a nice guy and you're a pleasant guy here but you know you

you're you're kind of raw emotionally and and a lot of this stuff started to feel a little desperate and then like later on you know after you married, then you found some source of your anger, which is that things didn't work out for you. Yet you're in you're in a pretty good life, but it was not the life you wanted. You know, you're like a house husband, you know, a daddy, you know, like what do you call it? Mr. Mommy kind of guy. And and that became your sort of point of view, but it was honest. And you genuinely seemed really almost too furious about it. And, you know, in the last few times I saw you, it was like, is that really a sympathetic angle?

I wonder. I wonder how people are responding to this. Like, this guy's doing all right, but, like, he's just, it's like my wife, my kids, you know, like, but underneath it all, I think what I saw and what became sort of like,

not a judgmental thing in terms of like, not that I don't like you, but your desperation became so intense. It was difficult to be around. Is that possible? Well, I don't know if you were around me at all to be around is that possible well i don't know if you were around me at all to be around no i just saw you at shows right that was the that was

a visceral you mean like actually hanging out no i don't know you for that but why would you say that i was too desperate to be around what does that mean like i would get uncomfortable with in the short periods of time that I would be with you. Oh, so when I would be on stage, you were uncomfortable. Right, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, listen,

I don't sell myself as a stand-up. I go up there to work out material. No, I know, but I'm just like, were any of those feelings real or is that just an act? I mean, did you feel at the end of your rope? No, I'm a terror.

Okay. I'm an absolute terror. Okay. You know, I'm a fucking living nightmare. You are. Oh, yeah. No doubt, Mark. You know, I mean.

Okay, so it wasn't unwarranted. I know you're here as, you know, we're talking and you feel better about things. But like, I'm just telling you that like my, in the same way that I may have bullied when I was younger, Like, I'm just telling you that, like, my, in the same way that I may have bullied when I was younger, my reaction to you is just slightly self-protective. But I don't really know how to do that because I'm not good with boundaries. So, like, my sort of posturing with you has been to protect myself because I'm very sensitive. And, you know, and that's why I'm okay at this job, from whatever, like, fury that was, like, you were trying to manage. Like, my fury would come on you?

Oh, don't you? Yeah, I'm very sensitive. No, why would my fury ever come your way? No, no, no, I don't think you would direct it at me, but just the vibe of it. You just didn't want to be around the vibe of it, yeah. Well, I just, like, I thought, like, this guy's about to pop.

Uh-huh. And I wasn't afraid of that, because I don't mind popping but it was more it was more some sort of twisted concern like you i i knew you were frustrated for a lot of reasons and i i know just the fact that you know you say like i don't i don't try to be a stand-up well i think that you you are a stand-up and you do try i tried but i'm done now i mean i'm done i hate it i fucking hate it yeah i don't like going into a room and having to I'm done.

I hate it. I fucking hate it. Yeah? I don't like going into a room and having to please a bunch of strangers. I just don't like it. So you don't do stage work anymore? No, I'm done. Really?

I fucking hate it. When did this happen? Last year. Really? I'm fucking done. I hate it. I hate just waiting to go on. I hate the sort of mentality

that comics only talk about, like this bananas. I hate the sort of the mentality that comics only talk about like this bananas. I hate the idea of going to bananas. It doesn't sound good to me. I hate the idea of being on the road. I do like the idea of like going up there and getting some material, but I don't, and doing well with it.

That excites me, but it doesn't excite me to like go back the next night and have it not do as well right the job yeah the job it's too hard but i get a lot i got a lot out of it i mean i got like all my all my jokes that are in the movie i got that from stand-up you know those are stand-up shows right or stuff that i could figure out that works i got that out of it and maybe i'll go back to it but i'm not focused on that now i'm trying to i'm making another movie yeah let's let'll go back to it but I'm not focused on that now. I'm trying to, I'm making another movie. Yeah, let's go back.

So, okay, so you come from- Do you understand that at all? Yeah, I do. Because I know you're a fucking, you've been doing stand-up for a long time. I understand it exactly. Like,

I want to live life. Like here, I was out, I was at stand-up New York last week. Oh, you're in New York? Yeah, I saw Rich Voss

just on the street and I'm a fan of his and Bonnie and I walked up and I was like, hey man, I've been calling into? Yeah, I saw Rich Voss just on the street. And I'm a fan of his and Bonnie. Yeah. And I walked up and I was like, hey, man. I've been calling into their show and I tell them. And then he like proceeded to talk to Craig Gass about the Bob and Tom show the entire fucking time. And I wanted to like.

Connect. Yeah, I wanted to talk to him about like, what are you doing on the weekends? Or how's your kids? Or how many kids you got? And he just sat there and he bitched about. And I called on, this is no secret. I called on the radio show i called him out and i mean i told him you know i was angry about it yeah and it's just like i don't like that i want to have a life i want i want to you know yeah and i don't like going up and couching things this goes to this speaks to what you're saying i don't like couching things for the audience to like it. I don't like it at all.

I don't like when I watch a stand-up go, you know what I want? I want a big fat woman. No, you don't. You don't want a big fat woman. You know what I mean? That's a lie. Or it's a joke.

It's untruthful, though. It might be a joke. No, it's not. You've seen the... Oh, I don't hear it like that. Maybe it is. Yeah, a's not. You've seen that. Oh, I don't, I don't hear it like that. Maybe it is. Yeah. A lot of times people tell jokes. Well, I don't, I don't see the joke there.

I guess I'm humorless in that department. Well, no, I mean, well, what's the rest of it? It's like, I'm just more, I'm just more. No, I mean like I want a big fat woman. I don't remember. I mean, I'm making, I'm. So you're, you're out at the setup. You're like, no, he doesn't want a big fat woman. No, he doesn't. I don't believe it. I'm not going to. No, I mean like I want a big fat woman. I don't remember. I mean, I'm making, I don't know. So you're out at the setup. You're like, no, he doesn't want a big fat woman.

No, he doesn't. Now you're going to listen to the joke. I don't believe it. I'm not going to listen to the joke. I just like things that are more real, more like, that's why I like the show. Which show? Your show. Right. Well, I mean, I do that type of standup, you know, but sometimes you exaggerate as a device

or embellish. You might embellish. Like, for instance, let's just take the premise of, like, I want a big fat woman. Maybe that guy a couple weeks ago was on the road. He was lonely, and he had sex with a big fat woman. And he's like, maybe he didn't prefer to do it, but it happened, and it might have been really fun. So the rest of that joke could have been based on the experience he had with what was fun about that. So it may not be a general truth.

Like, it might not be his life's end to want a big fat woman. But, you know, we've all had that experience. And there's something good about it. You may not want it, but sometimes you're surprised. about it you may you may not want it but you sometimes you're surprised at uh i the point i'm making is i understand your your anger and your frustration with stand-up and um and i understand that you you seem to be a little in between in terms of like you're angry about uh stand-up and you don't do it anymore but now you almost seem like angry that you know that you got to live life you want to live life how are you going to do it no no i don't think so at all i just said i don't like doing stand-up

no and then you said it's like it's not life i want to live life i don't want to sit and talk to rich voss about the bob and tom show about his work problems yeah i might want to live life i want to connect about kids i i can't i don't have time for this guy i've known for years who had some work issue on a radio show I haven't known him for years that's the thing I've never met him before I know him as a fan

well that sounds a little judgmental I mean you're so full of shit you're so full of shit you're just coming at me you're just being adversarial you're so full of shit you know exactly what I at me. You're just being adversarial. You're so full of shit. You know exactly what I mean.

I'm defending standup. You know exactly what I mean. You know exactly what I mean. You wanted to connect. He didn't have the time. He didn't have the time or he was in a different place and your needs weren't met. No, he wasn't in a different place. He was just fucking going on and on about the same thing with Greg Gass.

His friend. Yeah. And you you a guy he kind of knows yeah needs to connect about his kids no i just would love to fucking talk to him about you know and he was in the middle of a conversation rich voss isn't the problem here the problem is just i'm just saying in general i don't love you know a lot of the same that that life because you don't live it that's it that's it so what that was hard when you were working at SNL but everything is angry

I'm not you know I am angry but I'm not angry about Ridge Boss I mean I'm not I'm not angry about not doing stand up

you asked me a question you are angry about quitting stand up I wish there is such a part of me that wishes I could do it yeah but I can't do both

I can't I'm not I'm not that good. I work very slow and I have like my brain's all fucked up. Why is your brain fucked up? I think I did too many drugs. Did you? Yeah. But was it fucked up before?

I was never like that great multitasker or anyone that was prolific. ADD thing. Yeah. I mean, I'm on like some medication now that's good, but. Really, which one? It's called melametergine. Yeah?

Yeah, it's like Lomictol. It's a mood stabilizer. It's really good. It is? Oh, yeah, it's so good. Why would you prescribe it? Were you having depression? Yeah, last year I had a total breakdown.

I was going to bed at seven o'clock at night. I would have headaches at night. I couldn't function at night. If someone would talk talk to me i'd just be like like i would go out in the day and do my creative stuff do vines or whatever and have the best time and get so high on the creativity and then i would just crash i think i had like no adrenal blockage in my brain so then they gave me this thing and it's i was high for like a i was high for like a month uh-huh and the minute i took it they said it would take two weeks it took five minutes i was at a bowling alley party with my son and uh everything just just like went just as a wash like all the bowling

ball it was really something it was good that was so relief yeah and there was a weird thing i don't know if i should look this up but in my nost, there was like a cold euphoric thing in my nostrils. And so every time I would breathe in, it would be like breathing in like fucking ecstasy gas. And then that went away. So what else was going on in your life at that time though, a year ago? I was trying to get the movie out

and the movie was done for like a year. Are you married still or you're not? Yeah, I'm married. You're still married? Yeah, yeah. Okay. I remember you said to me once after I did stand-up, you're like, you better fucking,

you're gonna get divorced. You better clean that act up or you're gonna get divorced. Uh-huh. You're just looking at the time, waiting for this to be over. No, someone texted. So you remember a lot of what I said.

So I said that. And in reaction to what? I mean, we've only had a few exchanges, but. I know, but they resonated. And then sometimes,

you know, you listen to the show and you think, you know, you're going to get divorced if you don't clean your act up. Something like, you know,

if you keep doing that kind of material. Oh, I bet you that was it. Was it that dumb party show that used to be upstairs downtown? Oh yeah, I bombed there.

I think it was there. Yeah. We were so viscerally angry about it. And some of that's in the movie, but let's go back. So you got a job, what, out of college at Saturday Night Live? Yeah, I was an intern like the last year. Adam Sandler and Farley were there. And then I got the job in that September when Norm,

I got a job as like Norm's assistant. Oh, really? Yeah. And how'd you get in over there? You just applied? I just applied. Really? Yeah, I just went up and took the internship program

and like tried to do whatever they said. At NBC or at SNL? Oh, at SNL? Yeah. And at that time, you wanted to be on SNL? Me and Alex Sulkin were interns. But you wanted to be on SNL? Yeah, I auditioned.

You did? Yeah. Me and Zach. Oh, yeah, you jumped to be on SNL. Yeah, I auditioned. You did? Yeah. Me and Zach. Oh, yeah? You jumped through all the hoops? Yeah. You and Galifianoodles? Yeah.

I remember. I was about to go on. I went on after Zach, and he walked out, and the talent executive chased him out. He had done so well. Oh, that's horrible. Marcy. Marcy Klein. Yeah.

That's horrible to experience when you're waiting to go in. Yeah, waiting to go on. So then I go on and I had a CD. Uh-huh. And I get up there and I go, hey, I got a CD. Yeah. And they go, they just stare at me for like what seemed like five minutes. You needed it to do your bit, the preacher bit.

I don't know what it was. I think it was this Jim Morrison bit I did. Oh, okay. And they couldn't play your cd nope so that kind of fucked you out of the gate then yeah hurt me and then eventually a cd player made its way to the stage as as i was like you were making the noise of the cd no like in my brain everything's slowing down and i'm just looking at lauren and he'm just looking at Lorne and he has just expressionless, because you know, they do that to try to fuck with you

to see what you can do under pressure. Oh, you were auditioning in the studio? Yeah. That was the first audition? Did you meet with Lorne? No.

Oh, you just had that one audition? And it was weird because I was already, I was the receptionist the year before. So you knew Lorne kind of? Barely. Just walked by? He was always cool though. Yeah. But that was the endist the year before. So you knew Lauren kinda? Barely. Just walked by.

He was always cool though. Yeah. But that was the end of the audition process. That was it. And I did okay. They kept coming back. Like, you know, Ruthann kept going, you're in the mix, you're in the mix, you're in the mix.

Ruthann Secunda? Yeah. Wow. We have been doing this a while. Are you still with her? No. I have no idea what happened to her. She stopped calling me back.

Uh-huh. I mean, maybe I am, but I haven't heard from her. In how many years? 10. So we're thinking, we're looking at like, what, 96 here? 97? Yep. And then you're like, fuck it, I'm going to start doing alt comedy.

Because at that time, Surf Reality was around. The Luna was going still. There were all those outlets down there, later pianos, and it sort of grew bigger. Like I'd left. I left in 2001, and you were still there. And so you kind of evolved with the alt scene in New York as it spread out to Rafifi's and everything else.

9-11, I was here. Oh, really? You were already moved here? I was already here, yeah. Oh, so you really... evolved with the alt scene in new york as it spread out to refifis and everything else 9 11 i was here oh really you were already i was already here yeah oh so you you really living with my wife my girlfriend yeah my you're really a contemporary of mine in terms of the timeline of all comedy anyways so okay so you're doing these characters you're doing the jim morrison you're doing the preacher you're getting a little juice down there uh at luna and stuff um you're making friends with all the guys and then you meet your wife how'd you meet her doing a show for fox i had like two partners mike and matt we had like a sketch show matt um price yeah matt price who's in the film who i worked with briefly on what what? On the American version of Nevermind the Buzzcocks.

Oh yeah, I remember. Yeah, we did like 12 of those. He was like the set panelist. Right. And you were the host. Right, and that was like 2000 or something. You were good at that. I wasn't, didn't go.

I was not good at it. I watched the show. Did you? I thought you were good. I think you're good at everything you do. You're a good actor. I remember seeing a little piece you did on, like right before the internet was big,

you did like a little internet piece, like an Andy Rooney. Yeah. That was real good. Yeah, I did a lot of that. Memorized, but you were like standing over a, like a mountain. You were standing on a mountain.

I was there. Doing like a three minute piece that was memorized. Yeah. It was funny. Yeah. But it was one shot. Right. It wasn't like cuts.

Was that the possum piece? Because you know now they cut everything up. It's like, here's the thing about bananas. Bing, bang, shot. Right. It wasn't like cuts. Was that the possum piece? Because you know now they cut everything up. It's like, here's the thing about bananas. Bing, bang, boom. Yeah. You weren't doing it that way.

Yeah, I did some stuff. But yeah, the price was good. I was okay with the hosting but I was a little too angry. I was in the middle of a divorce at that time and also I needed money badly

and that's why I did it. And also I didn't quite understand the game. It's a lot to think about. Does your recognition of my anger come from your anger? Yeah, of course. Oh, I see. That's why you pick up on it more than everybody.

That's why you're going to protect yourself. Because I don't think everybody's like, I got to get away from that guy. No, I mean, that's exactly it. It's a sensitivity. It's not like, I don't, you know, I don't, I know that. What are you angry about? I'm just like, it's something that's. I'll tell you. No, it's a little. I'll tell you what I you angry about i'm just like it's something that's i'll tell you no it's it's a

little what i'm angry about mine's a little intangible in the sense that i think it comes from a very young place and it's just it's a it's the way i'm it's the pattern i've chosen to exist it's a i think anger in a weird way is just a faulty pattern of of taking care of yourself somehow and uh it's hard to shake because it's it's sort of deep and you know it has to do with expectation uh for me of something that probably is is not going to come in the way that i need it to come it's a it's a very young thing and it sort of defines you and you're ditching it now you think have you ditched it more more so no i, I've done some stuff in terms of like, I think that having some success does help

in terms of self-esteem, especially if it's on your own terms. And I think also like being sober for 15 years, it's had some effect. But just recently, I'm starting to look into even deeper core issues of really what the source of it is and figuring out some practical way to move through it. Your mother and father, is that one of the reasons?

Yeah, it was just emotional negligence. So what were they? Were they around for you? Yeah, they were around, but they were incredibly self-involved. Oh, okay. Were they into therapy? Not really. Were they sort of advanced people for the time?

No, they were just sort of like, they had their own insecurities and they were both kind of selfish in their own way. And I don't think that the emotional nurturing that is required for a child was that forthcoming though they did play as if they were doing it, but emotionally you kind of register that. So if you sort of go through life craving that nurturing from the outside world, it's not going to come, especially if you have made the assumption that because you didn't get it, you're kind of a fucked up person, then you have a bit of a beef. Did you get that from girlfriends or your wife?

No one can give it to you. You don't believe that? You don't believe that you can get that from your they can't get it from the outside no so you think you're that fucked up i don't know if it's fucked up it's just it is what it is and you've got to figure out how to kind of grow yourself up inside because that's really what i've been doing i've been trying to just grow i get along great with my wife now you know but father was pretty violent and not around and sort of a very macho Boston guy. What did he do?

He did all kinds of fucked up shit. Really? Well, first he had a business that was amazing, a furniture business. And then his partner got shot, got murdered in the middle of the night. They had borrowed money from the mob. Wow.

And that just fucked him up for the rest of his life. How could it not? Yeah, he couldn't get back to where he was. No one would hire him. But he also wouldn't take a job at a gas station. Right. Because he thought he was too good for it, which he was. And so we just starved and fucking wore, you know, we kicked out of apartments.

Really? Yeah. And so homeless, and not homeless but like we go live with my grandmothers right shit like that yeah and then my mother she really stepped up she got a job she became a makeup lady at like bloomingdale's and chestnut hill oh yeah route nine uh yeah so we would sort of you know i'd go and sit in the makeup counter and wait for her that was some of my childhood but it me very, and the other thing is my- She left him though?

They just split. He just was like, he was just, one Christmas he was just gone. Really? And she was fucking really distraught. How old were you? Like eight. Thank you, man. And he was so masculine.

Yeah. I mean, if you met him, you'd be like, this is the fucking best guy I ever met. Right, the character. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Looks like um he looks like de niro a little bit but he's six three uh-huh and uh and he was so macho and i wasn't i was so fucking what's the word i can use um effeminate effeminate and i'm not gay but i

you know he wanted me to play football when i was like five i was like fuck that trying to beat the sensitivity out of you yeah different. Different kind of guy. Yeah, and I just wasn't that guy. I mean, I remember being very like, you know, adult at a young age, like controlling his anger. You were. Yeah. Monitoring, you know, trying to temper it, like, hey, hey dad, how are you?

Yeah, I dealt with some of that, yeah. Yeah. Emotionally erratic father. Oh yeah, like you spill your milk and then that's it. Yeah, you just don't know what's gonna happen. Rip your pants. Gone. You're walking around and you don't know what the hell is gonna come at you.

Yeah, so you're always kind of like, oh, fuck. Like, all right, let's just get through this. Right. Let's make him happy so I don't get hit. Right. You know? Yeah. And not to say he wasn't a loving guy, but he could be loving.

And then he apologized for all that like one summer in Martha's Vineyard. Oh, he did? Yeah. Probably my best moment. Oh, really? Yeah. Was it on a boat? No, he's like, let's go get a beer.

And I was like, I don't really drink, but I'll go with you. Yeah. You know, again, not mentally enough. Not a fucking 39. Right. Oh, really? Yeah. fucking 39 right oh really yeah and uh he just said uh you know uh i'm so sorry for you know all the all the stuff i i fucked and he couldn't even finish the sentence you know because it was so

much he said i uh i fucked up you know i fucked up and i said uh it's okay you know it made me who i am today it's where it's the place who I am today. It's the place from where I write from. It's the place from where I get me from. And that was it. But it was good. It was good to hear him say that. It was satisfying? Yeah, it made me realize that when I yell at my kids or something,

or if I'm an asshole, you just go say you're sorry right away. I'm so sorry. And that goes so far. I didn't realize that. Oh, yeah. But you hope that that that goes so far i didn't realize that oh yeah but you hope that that doesn't become a pattern you know at some point you'd like to sort of like i'm not gonna yell and don't tell me how to be a father mark you have no idea i'm just saying in general

you're gonna have kids no why not something missed the boat dude no you didn't kind of did not at all it's okay did you sad about that no no i almost had a kid i was thinking about it but to me it's like i'm a very anxiety ridden person and uh and i'm i'm relatively it frightens me my brother has three kids but like i i i'm i have not gotten my anxiety and panic and volatility in a place where i would feel i never never felt like, I never really thought about having them. That should tell you something. But when you have them, that'll all be forced out of you. Okay.

I think, because you just can't spend that much time on yourself anymore. You're like, all right, let's just go. Yeah, you have to take care of it. Yeah, it's like if I threw you in the army or someone threw you in Afghanistan, you'd be like, okay, let's do it. But like if I can avoid being thrown into Afghanistan,

why not choose that? Yeah, I think it would, you know, I don't know. Maybe I shouldn't say this. I wouldn't say this to anyone else but you. Go ahead. But I would never tell someone I have kids. Right. Because it's really hard and it's not for everybody.

But I think for you, it would be really good for you. Yeah, I thought that too. Because, you know, you get great material, obviously, and it would just for everybody. But I think for you, it would be really good for you. Yeah, I thought that too. Because you get great material, obviously, and it would just change the scope of you and maybe take off some of the... Selfishness. Selfishness, that's one word. Anxiety.

Yeah, or add more. Self-hatred. Yeah, that's limiting. It's a little less. You don't have any self-hatred anymore? No, no, I do. But again, I'm sort of getting where it comes from a little less you don't have any self-hatred anymore no no i do but but you know i i again i'm sort of getting where it comes from a little more self-hatred's a weird thing because

you know after a certain point you're like why am i even doing that yeah it doesn't fit colin quidd said that once he was like you know you know when you're depressed and you're just like depressed and then you realize that no one fucking cares and you know you know he's like then you stop it's so funny because your points of reference you know coming from the alt comedy community You're just depressed and then you realize that no one fucking cares. And then you stop. It's so funny because your points of reference coming from the alt-comedy community are big mainstream real comics. I've just been listening to Satellite recently and I don't go to comedy clubs anymore.

Yeah. So those are my references right now. No, you like comedy. I do. I like all kinds of comedy. Yeah, I'm a comedy fan. And you're a comedy comedy. I do. I like all kinds of comedy. Yeah, I'm a comedy fan. And you're a comedy performer. I am.

Yeah. Maybe not to your level. Maybe not to your liking. I didn't say any of those things. I did not say any of those things. Oh, I see. I don't know why you're assuming that. I told you why I was uncomfortable with your performing style,

and you explained to me early on you knew what was going on with the preacher character, but I did not say any of it. It seems to me that the voice you have in your head is horribly critical. Yeah. Pretty, yeah. So your dad's still around, though? Yeah.

And your mom? Yeah, my mom's a saint. She's fucking the best. Yeah? Yeah. Both Jewish? She's Jewish. He's Christian.

Uh-huh. But he converted. Did he did he yeah and then went back to the church i guess you had to convert back then yeah no you didn't why would you why would it happen that's what they told me that he had to convert yeah it was sort of like well maybe that maybe her parents made and my mom's dad was italian he converted interesting something yeah but everything's sort of leveled off but it but like the fundamental struggle that you have with your father over your masculinity and over his anger and all that stuff that's sort of defining yeah and so then and you're also the sort of weird preemptive defensiveness i think that's also something we share as well is that when you have a father that's volatile you you're constantly ready to either be diplomatic to absorb it or to defend yourself.

Yeah, totally. Fight or flight. Did you ever have those kind of fights where it was like shit flying around, got to get out of the house shit? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Or the other thing that I realized in therapy was like i don't think

people want to hear what i have to say because i would talk to my dad and he's like yeah yeah yeah anyway you know i had a tryout with the patriots once yeah you know you'd be like oh i was trying to tell you something but i guess it doesn't fucking matter it's heartbreaking dude because you said the exact same thing about stand-up yeah Yeah. Well, no, I feel like people want to hear what I have to say. Good. You know, when I'm being honest and really talking about what it is. But just for you to even own that space is hard. Yeah.

Like that, and like I think that's another thing I felt, that you're approaching the sort of, the stage with with sort of like you know you got better listen to me you know you know like you're you're assuming that any second they're either going to yell or split yeah or start thinking about themselves yeah that energy yeah gotta hold them yeah and then i sort of to speak to what you said to speak to what you said before, then when I became an adult and I wasn't working, I was like, oh, fuck it, my father. I'm fucking. So that's the curse.

Because that was like. I had this moment. I had this moment. He was out visiting me in LA. I said, I got this thing. I got this thing that might happen. You know, all these things. It's a show.

It's a show. And he goes, oh, I got a thing. I got a piece of property in Rhode Island. And I said, oh, God, I'm fucking thing. I got a piece of property in Rhode Island. And I said, oh, God, I'm fucking him. I'm the guy talking about it. Yeah, but the sadder part of that is, and I have it with my father as well, is that they hear you, and then they just immediately shift over to them to sort of compete or one-up or validate themselves. Yeah.

In that moment. Yeah. Where all you really wanted him was to say congratulations yeah that's horrible buddy and then you have the other side of my mother who just will believe anything you say you know like it's gonna happen i know it's gonna happen for you yeah i just know it and it's like going on like 20 years you're the best you're gonna do it so you can't even you begin not to believe that yeah you feel bad like you're lying like you're a fucking crack like you're a crack addict

yeah yeah I'm not on crack anymore or worse that you know that it's just not true right oh what you're saying is some more garbage yeah I mean I think there's

pipe dreams there's a line in the movie which I go oh you know you know something like you end up you're afraid you'll end up being one of these people

that just talks about doing things there's nothing worse than someone who talks about doing something and then you realize oh fuck that's me

yeah it's all very sad Jason well you know I'm not looking for sympathy I am I'm here I'm happy

with my medication I'm not I'm not giving you sympathy I'm just acknowledging yeah that like well I'm letting the audience know that I'm not giving you sympathy. I'm just acknowledging that. Well, I'm letting the audience know that I'm not. Yeah, but no one's assuming that. No, because I identify with it, especially this self-absorbed,

emotionally erratic father thing. It's horrible. It's just a lifetime of unreceived and unreciprocated love and constant vigilance against an emotional attack. Heavy, right? Yeah, and then when I got married, I was like, oh, you're just living with that.

You're like, oh, I'm a man. So you have your dad saying you're a man and there's all these standards. So I'm living to these standards, which no one else is. It's a modern world now. Right. But a man does this, a man does that.

Right. You know? Yeah. And I still have those in my head. Well, yeah. And also you just, you also have the sort of role model as well. You know, that your dad was a floundering dude.

Yeah. So, but that's the interesting and difficult situation sort of role model as well you know that you know that your dad was a floundering dude yeah so but you but that's the interesting and difficult situation you got yourself into in that you know you married a woman in show business who was successful in show business yeah she's doing good as a executive and um you know made a living and you were a guy struggling to make it in show business. Yep. But you, I think, because of that became a great father and probably have a relationship

with your children that's enviable to most men. It's good. I try hard. Yeah, but you were there all the time. Yeah, I was there. Yeah, which is nice. Like when I hear about a comic

who's gone Friday to Wednesday, I think, how could you do that? You gotta leave your kids. That's hard. Yeah. And then also with my wife, like being so close to success,

but not there. No, every day you wake up with it. Yeah. She's going to work, working on shows. Oh yeah. Maybe with people you know. For sure. Or the casting to work, working on shows. Oh, yeah. Maybe with people you know. For sure. Or the casting comes in.

She goes, well, we're thinking about Mark Maron, Matt Price, Mike Blyden. And you're like, I'm right here. John Ross Bowie. Yeah. But do you ever think that it was against her emotional self-interest to cast you? Yeah, she didn't want to mix. I don't know what you just asked, but I'll try to answer it. Well, I'll tell you what I just asked. I didn't understand. Okay, I'll explain it to you. Yeah, she didn't want to mix. I don't know what you just asked, but I'll try to answer it. Well, I'll tell you what I just asked.

I didn't understand it. Okay, I'll explain it to you. Yeah, sorry. That her emotional self-interest is like, you know, someone's got to work and I'm the one working. And, you know, it's good for the kids to have a parent around as much as possible. Oh, um. No, I don't think she's that devious. I mean, I think I just, she just doesn't like to, you'd have to meet my wife.

You'd really like her. She's just. I know her. Yeah, you'd really like her. Marty, right? Marnie. Marnie Montgomery, was she? No.

What was her last name? Hockman. Marnie Hockman. Yeah, you'd really. I'm thinking of Marty. You'd really like her because she. I think I have met her. She likes you.

She always liked your comedy. Yeah, I met her before. And you guys are both Jewish. But anyway, she's just someone who's like very reserved, very on point, knows exactly what needs to be done and how to do it. And I'm not. The opposite of you.

Yeah, I'm all over the place. All right, well, so what I'm hearing is that, you know, your frustrations grew to a point with performing and with just your lot in life and these dynamics with your father and all this other stuff. And eventually you were like, fuck it, I'm going to make a movie. That's what I'm going to do.

I'm done with this shit. 20 years in and this stuff is exhausting. It's not really yielding anything. But I've got a lot of friends. I've got talent. I'm going to write a movie about myself, basically. Yep. And being a divorced fellow twice, I was interested and concerned to the point where I'm like,

I hope he didn't get divorced because I think that would be a disaster. But there's a lot of great people in it kechner's always good um tj miller who i like as an actor yeah um what do you mean you don't like him as a person i don't know him he's great yeah he's super nice very funny actor what did he turn you down to do the show no no no i'm just kidding no no no it's just always a little odd with us. But I think he's a very talented guy. Matt Price is there. Yeah.

People, the Richters are in it. Yeah. Sir and Andy. Yeah. Rachel Harris. Yeah. She's got a little part in it. Schwartzen.

Schwartzen, that was a good scene. Yeah. Like, what's your buddy's name? The guy who- Blyden. Yeah, Blyden's in it. He's great. Yeah, everybody's in it.

Sounds like you really liked it. No, I liked it no i liked it my problem is fundamentally it's not even a problem i have a particular reaction to you i think that's what it is yeah i think you i think i think but it's not a bad reaction but we i don't think we should talk ever again no what we've established here is that we have more in common than than we would have known before. Yes, but I don't feel like there's any bridge built. What? What do you want? You want a bridge?

Yeah. We're having a conversation. And even now I'm fucking wide open, you're resistant. fucking wide open you're resistant now i can't believe that just because of the way this conversation started yeah that you know you you would still take this position and say to me there's no bridge built i'm wide open now i'm not i'm not you are yeah okay and but you're you know what what happened nothing i'm i'm i'm happy to be here and I'm really actually liking the episode. I feel like it's very honest and it actually feels good to sit across from you and get the real deal.

Yeah. Holy field. Uh-huh. You know? It feels good. It's like I'm going to walk out of here and be better. Look, you asked me to be honest. I'm glad.

I want to hear it. I'm just telling you that the leap from selfish to the guy who could potentially be a good husband was a little bit of a jump for me. And that's it. Why is that a jump? Because I want to take care of my wife. That's all I want. I know, but there are scenes in the movie where she comes out and you're doing a contest

and the beat is, you know, what kind of money do you get? It's like a tote bag. Yeah, it's like a tote bag. So like on- It's a great line. It is a great line. It's a great joke.

But there is an element of it all that is obscuring the idea that all I want to do is support my wife and kids but you also want to be big in show business you're trying to be i want to do i want to do it that way because otherwise i'm i'd be i'm miserable so i'm i wanted to take it and i don't think you can i don't think you're i don't think you're understanding what it's like to... Have to support a family? That and also to be underneath someone that you...

Look, I met my wife and I didn't really want to get married, but she was so great that I was like, all right, she's fucking great. And I know I made the right decision because I'm still with her today and we're going out tonight and I'm looking forward to it. And so, you know, I say I made the right decision because I'm still with her today and we're going out tonight and I'm looking forward to it and so you know I say that in the movie I could I can't get a job at a bank no I'm fucking 40 years old but the idea here's here's the then the issue is again don't and I love this by the way okay I do is that it's very set that clearly in the movie, she's got money.

She wants to. That's not true at all. I mean, you know the television business. It's fucking awful. I'm just talking about the reality of the movie when a woman sits down and says, we're going to redo the kitchen. Right.

She's not going to do that if there's no money there. And the fact that you are married and you get a $30,000 IRS debt that comes out of nowhere. And that's sort of an issue so the dynamic isn't like what you grew up with it's not like i got to provide for my family because you know we're all eating uh cereal all day because that's all we can afford the idea is more of an ego thing in the sense that like no it's a thirty thousand dollar debt no i know that i you know really have okay so that's that i think that's something no but i'm saying that what's established in the film is that she's the breadwinner yeah and it's

not an uncomfortable situation no it is uncomfortable it's uncomfortable for you personally but there's money there no she's sitting down building a dream book she's not remodeling the kitchen she's looking at things she's's working. She has an office. I'm just saying that the world you created is a lot like the world you live in. Yeah. That it doesn't reek of like, you know,

if you don't get a job, we're going to have to leave this house. Right. So, I mean, that's not in the movie, but I, but I'm just saying that

the idea that you're presenting me, which is like, all I want to do is do it so I can support my wife and kids. They were being supported on some level. You know, you want to do it to validate yourself as a man on a lot of levels. Right. Creatively, you know, professionally.

Right. In the eyes of what you think your expectations are. It's just multidimensional. And what I said for me is that that just becomes, it's not even a matter of confusing. Because it clearly, you know, this is what the character is. And that's part of the movie. Is that you don't really, you know, ultimately, you don't know what you want. You want to be happy.

You don't want these possessions and these other things to make a difference. But you know that if you could just get them, it would make life at least easier for your wife but you even fight that and that but he doesn't want i don't want possessions at all i mean there's clearly in the movie she's asking me about things and i say what why are we going after these things they're not going to make us any happier right but but but they might make her happier and that's why i need a job and that's that's the whole crux of the movie. That he's trying and failing and trying and failing. Yeah, but it seems like you're on two different pages, really.

Me and the wife? Yeah. But that's the way marriage is. But sometimes marriage isn't like that. I really wasn't trying to attack your movie. No, no, no. I know. I love this.

You're the only person that has gotten into it with me. So I like it. I really wasn't trying to attack your movie. No, no, no. I know. I love this. You're the only person that has gotten into it with me. So I like it. I really do. And also the fact that you haven't been divorced. Like. I didn't want to be divorced. I don't want to be divorced. I don't want to have split time with my kids.

Yeah, but just. You know. But the nuts and bolts emotions of really being thrown out of your house, having, you know, or having been left. You're talking about you. Sure, I've been through that. You've been left before.

Yeah. I have too. It's devastating. Oh, I know, I know. I had a girlfriend once, all my friends thought I was funny, she never laughed at one thing. And I remember I said to her on the last day, girlfriend once all my friends thought i was funny she never laughed at one thing and i remember i

said to her on the last day i said you you don't think i'm funny at all you've never and that was it you live in studio city do you ever see my ex nishna yeah no no she lives there i think she lives somewhere i always liked her yeah. What happened? You're married. Yeah, I was bad. I was just hard to deal with. You were just a dick? Yeah, kind of. And you were angry and caustic and stuff like that?

Yeah, yeah. She found a good dude. Got some kids. She's doing all right, I think. We don't talk at all, but she's doing all right. Good. Do you want to go over to the other side and get kids? You don't even want to. You're done.

I don't. I just, I'm just. I call it the other side. Oh, I just don't see it happening. It's't, I just, I'm just. I call it the other side. Oh, I just don't see it happening. It's not, you know, I'm not like on principle. What happens when you meet a woman now? You do Tinder or anything like that? No.

No. What happens when you go to a show and you meet a woman or something? I've gotten a little cynical. Yeah. You know, I've been, I had a couple of relationships where I was almost going to get married again and have children and then that turned out to be not a good idea. Why'd you pull the plug? I just didn't trust

the situation. I didn't, you know, because at my age and where I'm at, I need to know that someone's really fucking going to be there

to do, you know what I mean? I can't take care of. Be there for what? To take care of themselves? And the kid. And the kid. Because you're going to be

gone doing the road. No, no. Uh-oh. You mean, so the women that you were involved with, you thought were maybe a little flighty and you couldn't count on them to hold up their end. Not quite flighty, but I, yeah,

but there was an element of not, yeah, your end business. And not that you want to be taken care of or anything like that. Just 50-50, I don't think she can hold it up. A little more than 50 I'm going to need from her. Okay, you want a 70-30. Yeah, 60-40 might be good. Oh my gosh. What? Nothing.

It's very bold of you to say. I'm 50, dude. What does that mean? It means that when the kids... You're in good shape. You're nice and skinny. You got a nice body on you. You got a nice head of hair. You're handsome. You're on TV shows. Let me 60. It's just a practical thing.

You know, and it's a very sad thing that that didn't work out. You know, I understand why the marriage didn't work out. You don't seem sad about it. Birth. Yeah. Okay, okay, okay. You're sad about the marriage and you're sad about not having kids a little bit. No, I'm not sad about the marriage.

I understand why that didn't work out. I mean, I'm sad about the relationship that I was in not working out in the way that it did. Are we talking about Moon right now? No, no, no. Okay. That only lasted a few months. I'm good friends with her. Yeah.

No, that- She's the best. She's the best. No, she's a great person. Yeah. It just was not emotionally right for me. Like it was one of those situations where I idealized it and really believed it. Like how could this not work out?

Yeah. But I didn't know her that way. And I just, I couldn't, I couldn't make the cut for what she needed emotionally. Yeah. It just wasn't gonna happen. When you idealize somebody,

that's fucking really trippy. Well, it's just a matter of not knowing. Yeah. It's like my wife, she'll go, I'm gonna set up Dan with Rachel and it's gonna,

it never worked. You know, it's never. It's just hard. It's just not, you just can't do it. And sadly, I've gotten a little bit cynical, but I think never work you know it's never it's just hard it's just not you just can't do it and sadly I've gotten a little bit cynical but I think that you know spending time working on my own shit is not a bad place to be you know I'm seeing

somebody a bit and I'm not shut off to it but I'm very scared so you know because I have the same thing you do you know because when you come from parents that are emotionally demanding and volatile and selfish, you want to be accommodating. And sometimes, you know, you risk losing yourself a bit. And the anger that comes from losing yourself and also not being able to help the other person, no matter what you do, is horrendous.

Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you've got it coming from all sides, don't you? Inside, I have it coming from all sides. Yeah, Yeah, you've got it coming from all sides, don't you? Inside, I have it coming from all sides. Yeah, you can know it. Yeah, inside, you've got it coming from all sides. You are so, I can't tell if you're an unbelievable mess or if you've got a good hold on it. I've got a pretty good hold on it. Okay, good.

But in one area, it's kind of messy. Well, that's good. Yeah. I mean, what do you on it. Okay, good. But in one area, it's kind of messy. Well, that's good. Yeah. I mean, what do you want? That's all right. Yeah, right? I mean, you know, when you want it to be perfect,

it's never going to be perfect. Well, I want what you want is that like, you know, there's a lot of things going well, but you know, sometimes you don't exactly know what to do.

Yeah. I mean, I guess I could have just given up my career and given up the idea of making films or doing stand-up and just... Because I feel like you've got a thing where... I feel like clearly what I'm going to take away from this, and it's good to hear, is that you never liked the place I worked from in comedy. No. The same thing with the characters and then there seemed to be a theme with the movie.

Like, yeah, well, he's fine. He's got a house and a wife who works. So why am I watching this? That's what I took away from what you said. Crazy. Okay. Yeah, I am. I'm on 200 milligrams a day.

We talked about a lot of stuff. We talked about the similarities we have emotionally and why I had a hard time with you ultimately beyond the preacher character was that your anger was too visceral for me and I have the sensitivity to it and it made me uncomfortable. But I did realize it was honest. And you know, when I said to you that thing about your wife is, is that I knew that some of those feelings were genuine and that you didn't necessarily have a handle on them. And they were mixed with a certain amount of... Some of the feelings were genuine? Well, you couldn't be operating at that level of anger if all those feelings were operating at that

level of anger, you shouldn't have been married. So my reason for responding the way I did is like, I don't know if she knows what you're doing but but you know that's that's serious shit and you seem very unhappy so that was why i said that it was a sensitivity thing it was not like i don't like as comedy it wasn't reading to me as comedy and and and and and you said yourself that you know worrying about whether the audience likes you or whether you can do something that they're going to you know laugh at or like you know became straining for you because you wanted to be honest so there you were you were i was reading something honest and now you're telling me that okay so all those feelings were real and they were functioning at that level of intensity and for me to say like you know i'd be

careful uh somehow was an attack or a diminishment of your comedy but it was just really me being sensitive as an angry person oh no i when you said that to me at the comedy club i i didn't i wasn't offended at all but what i'm saying you is that whatever you just framed you're going to leave with from this conversation is your own shit you know telling you that you stink so like you know what i said i think we've had a fairly thorough conversation i think we've had a good conversation and i i just that's what i thought and it's something that i certainly want to look at but i think that we established if anything throughout this conversation was that the reason i have the reaction to you i have is because i sense what's going on deeper inside of you because i have it going on in myself then you might you might be accustomed to people sensing.

So that was my discomfort. It was not, you know, outside of the preacher character, I did not diminish where you were coming from comedically because we come from a similar place or at least desire to come from a similar place. Yeah, I guess I hear all the stuff you're saying and it's like you're missing a chromosome. You're missing a sensitivity chromosome, a little bit, where I'm waiting. And again, it might be me.

I'm waiting for, I guess, a bridge. I can't. I'm waiting for some sort of, and I don't feel it. I don't feel it. I don't feel it. I don't feel it. Usually, with 99.9% of the people that I come across, even if they're critical or even if they're bluntly honest with me,

there's a, the guard gets down. And maybe it's because we're going back and forth, but I don't, like even when you say, I'm not coming at you, I still don't feel connected with you or that we have any kind of, you know, goodwill. Okay, listen to me. Listen to me.

Yeah, I'm gonna listen. You know, i'm sorry i fucked up i fucked up good talking to you good talking to you mark that's it that's our show. Thank you for listening. I thought it ended well. I know it was a tough one. It was a little intense. I know. I know.

We have an intense thing in that guy. As I said before, Jason Nash is Married. It's available on iTunes and Amazon. Marin, my TV show. Second season is now available on Netflix. I just had a chest pain. Just now I had a chest pain. Wow. Okay. How are you? TV show. Second season is now available on Netflix. I just had a chest pain. Just now I had a chest pain. It's happening.

Wow. Okay. How are you? All right. We good? But is this happening on the mic? Right? I don't know about this. I like that.

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