WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 567 - Jeff Garlin

Episode Date: January 11, 2015

At long last, Jeff Garlin is in the garage for a one-on-one with Marc. They talk about how Jeff got paired with Larry David to birth Curb Your Enthusiasm, how Marc and Jeff once pitched a cop show together, and how Jeff found inner peace after getting arrested. Plus, Judd Apatow calls in to talk with Marc about the ghastly Bill Cosby situation. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It's hockey season, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So, no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats. But iced tea, ice cream, or just plain old ice? Yes, we deliver those. Gold tenders, no. But chicken tenders, yes. Because those are groceries, and we deliver those, too.

Along with your favorite restaurant food, alcohol, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+.

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some good talk. Last week, Paul Thomas Anderson, Richard Linklater. Awesome. This Thursday, got Mike Judge, who I don't think talks a lot publicly, and we're from the same place, Albuquerque, New Mexico. Had a great conversation with Mike. Today I got Jeff Garland on. Me and Jeff go way back, but I actually got a few words in. That doesn't always happen with Jeff. And in a minute we've got sort of a special guest. Something's been eating at me, eating away at me a bit, is that last week I vaguely addressed my feelings about the Bill Cosby situation by not even mentioning his name. And I'm starting to feel a little cowardly about it or something. I just don't. It's very strange the feelings you have around realizing or coming to realize that

somebody you've looked up to or respected or thought so differently of is is such a a sociopathic monster it's a very hard thing to reckon with and you know i have no religion and i can only imagine that on some level it must be the same for catholics wrestling with uh with a local priest who is has been rumored but now is decisive. You got to be a moron not to know that the rumors are true. How do you deal with that? And I think a lot of us use due process as a rationalization. Absolutely. The predominance of the law is phenomenal. For the most part, it's supposed to be what makes our legal system so enviable and amazing. But, you know, at what point do we start using due process as a rationalization to to not.

Engage our common sense or our own logic or or or to to sort of overcome our own fear of speaking what we believe is true. I mean, I'm that I'm that that guy i think we're all that guy hey you know it's like you know innocent until proven guilty but people in power are rarely proven guilty certainly the type of power that cosby has enjoyed his entire life as an entertainer uh the money he's made for other people, it sort of makes him a bit untouchable. And there have been events in the past where he's been able to politically or financially, uh, get out of, or,

or, or, or, or crush articles or, or interviews with him. But those days are over. This is a, this is an old man Cosby and it's hard as a comic to realize this stuff.

And what is our responsibility around it? For me, I know a lot of guys are like, hey, man, if he did it, you know, it's horrible. Well, I think he did it. And it's horrible. But what do we do now? Do we just let it go? Is that it? You know?

Now, do we just let it go? Is that it? You know? And I think a lot of people have just refused to want to admit it at all. But, I mean, how much do you talk about it? I have not talked about it at all. I'm not saying Bill Cosby is going to come onto this show. From what I heard a year or so ago when I really wanted to get him on the show, he wouldn't do it because there was the F word in the title of the show,

being a decent guy that he is. But something happened on stage last week that kind of grossed me out apparently he was on stage in canada and he made reference to the accusations against him to the rape accusations by 30 some odd women you know average it out after a certain point. I mean, you know, it's,

he's a bad guy. It's true. I've decided, and I'm nobody, but it's my personal opinion. It's horrible, but he was on stage making light of it. Said to a woman in the audience,

it was going out to the bar to get a drink. He said, be careful. don't drink it around me so when he's using the platform of stand-up comedy to obfuscate make light of and trivialize what he's playing off is you know empty accusations is is heinous and i knew that judd apatow was was very public about it his feelings about it and obviously you know he's in a position to where he can you know be as honest as he wants to be no one's going to he's not going to be punished yes there's nothing to be afraid of if you're judd apatow in this business and look i i mean i love i love cosby as a comic and i don't know what to do with that you know i it's all very mixed up the emotions are mixed up how do i separate it now am i going to be able to i might be able to i can i still say well he did some

great comedy but he's this horrible rapist monster can i do that can i compartmentalize that i don't know have not done those experiments but clearly judd uh is able and has been able to completely separate the influence of growing up with Bill Cosby as a comedic hero, respecting Bill Cosby as an entertainer and a cultural activist. He's been able to separate all that, to put all that aside to assess this situation. side to assess this situation but it had been eating me about this is my show my beat is the comedy community that's where this started and that's where most of it remains and i felt you know i felt bad that i was not talking about it because i didn't know how to talk about it and now i'm talking about it and i want to talk to judd about it because he's been very up front about his feelings and what they mean and what this what this cosby situation means to comedy to culture

to show business i just wanted to you know a lot of you had seen his tweets and but i wanted to get into it a little bit so i called judd apatow a few days ago, and we talked about Bill Cosby. Mark, how are you? I'm fine, Judd. How are you? I'm doing well. I'm in the final stages of editing the Amy Schumer movie, Trainwreck. And what's that coming in under? You know, we got it at about, I think we're at a solid two hours. Yeah?

That might be a new record for me. So, all right, well, here's what's going on with me. You know, like I have been, you know, I don't know if I'm shying away from addressing the Bill Cosby situation. I have to sort of really kind of question myself as to how do I talk about it? What are my feelings about it? And I think ultimately what happens, you know, with me is you sort of lean on that, well, you know, if it's true, then it's horrible. And then it gets to a point where we're at now, where I realize it is true. There's no way that this many incidents can happen with these personal stories. And so I know that it's horrible, but what,

but what, what do we do now? And you talk about it on Twitter constantly. So what do you want to happen? One thing that I do know is I'm not comfortable with him running around the country doing stand-up like nothing's happening. And I guess on some level I feel like I can't be a part of solving that many problems in the world. I do my best to get involved where I can be effective. But this is our neighborhood, and I do feel like there's someone running around who should be in a different type of building right now. There was a comedian named Vince Champ.

Yeah, I knew him. Remember him? He was arrested because they looked at his college touring schedule. And in many of the cities that he was in on those days, people had been raped. He's in jail for life right now. Right. But Bill Cosby, I think one of the other issues is that when somebody has as much power as Bill cosby and like despite what you know patent says or or what you are may have known i i mean i was not really aware of of of this uh of the reality of this and and apparently a lot of people were aware of it

years and years ago and until uh hannibal said something i wasn't really on my radar and and i think it's a it's pretty unbelievable for a lot of people. And there doesn't seem to be any legal recourse. So the whole due process argument of kind of like, you know, innocent until proven guilty does not really apply. And he's a very powerful guy. So you wonder what justice looks like. And I understand what you're saying, but it seems like he's definitely been hobbled. His legacy has been destroyed.

And he doesn't seem to be able to work much in this country at this point. Would you like to see him in jail? I absolutely would like to see him in jail. I mean, that's where people who commit sexual assault go. He should be in jail. I think that when celebrities commit heinous crimes, people don't want to let go of their love for their work and their lifelong relationship with them. If we admit that Cosby did this, we're not allowed to enjoy everything that made us so happy. And I guess in some primal way, we don't want to let go of those memories and those feelings. i guess in some primal way we don't want to let go of those memories and those feelings

and i think ultimately we have to decide that uh... it's way more important uh... that he is uh... delta than the same manner anyone else's whose commit those types of crimes and uh... he shouldn't be uh... performing k he got to standing ovations last night and he had to use book through he's booked through the spring. Are people going to book him again? Maybe they will if we don't complain about it.

And I guess on the most recent performances, he alluded to it and joked about it in a room full of people that were obviously adoring fans. And he got a standing ovation from what I read, you know, just from or a massive amount of applause just for the joke he made, you know, about some woman was getting up to get a drink. And he said, where are you going? She's I'm going to get a drink. And he said, well, you better you better be careful and not drink that around me. And it just got a huge amount of laughter. And I think that's what's sort of triggered my, I guess, action or my desire to call you is that he's now using our form and his form to sort of trivialize this thing where he has not made a statement about it at all.

And now he's using jokes to trivialize it. Well, he's certainly not saying this. On that date, when they said I was at the Playboy Club, I was in Europe shooting a movie. He doesn't have a response that's specific to any of the 33 people. And if you didn't do it, you'd probably be pretty pissed off. And you know what? The timeline wouldn't match up. So it is a Vince Champ situation in that way. He doesn't have an alibi for any one of these people. And you only need one of these people to be telling the truth

for him to deserve to be in prison. What I think people have trouble facing is, what would it feel like to be standing with Bill Cosby? You take a drink of something, or you take a pill that he told you was something that it wasn't, and you slowly start passing out, and you're looking at him, and you're thinking, what in God's name is about to happen? It is bone chilling. It's a horror movie. And I don't think people really want to close their eyes and imagine what it's like as you're going unconscious to know that somebody is about to abuse you in that way. And then you won't be able to complain because he could say, what? We were partying. What? We were like drinking, doing pills. Like it's a setup to make the person unable to complain.

Right. And it's so loaded anyways. And so many of these women were afraid of him. And so many women in, you know, generally speaking, were victims of sexual crime find themselves ashamed or unable to speak out. And certainly with somebody as powerful as Bill Cosby, obviously a lot of these women just couldn't even fathom addressing it publicly. Well, I think a lot of people who want to get into acting, and a lot of people he preyed upon were wannabe actresses or actresses even if he did it they think complaining about it probably ends my career people will think that you know i'm trouble that's why he always went for the same type of person for the vast majority

of the time because you you become branded that person even now these people in their 60s and their 70s and their 70s, and most all of them don't want any money. They're just trying to be honest. They're humiliated. I mean, there's nothing fun about being 70 years old and having to go on CNN and saying Bill Cosby raped you. Like, that's not fun.

It brands you in a way. It takes an enormous amount of courage to stand up and talk about it. But I think that people like to think, oh, they're all going to get rich. Believe me, most of these people aren't getting rich off of this. Might a few people get remunerated at some point? Sure. Do they deserve it? Absolutely.

That's why people sue people. If you do something to someone and it messes with their life and it messes with their psychology and causes them great pain, he should pay those people. But when I when I when we were, you know, engaging over over text that, you know, you feel that there is a there's no response coming from from Hollywood, you know, as our community. You know, I've talked to people, I've said something, most of the people that I've talked to, and I've seen a couple of people address it on stage, you know, fairly succinctly. I saw Gerard Carmichael address it with a very pointed joke. I saw Rob Schneider talk about it a bit in a more personal way, less pointed. You know, I know that, you know that Chris Rock has said, if he did it, it's horrible.

There's still a qualifier there. I mean, what would you like Hollywood to say? And what do you think is disproportionate in terms of how Hollywood's responding? Well, I think it's the path of least resistance. Nobody wants to stand up for anything that can't help them in some way. So what are the chances that Bill Cosby pulls out a date book and shows that he was not in those locations for all 33 of those women? It's zero. bill cosby clearly did it nobody wanted risk the idea that for the one in a billion chances that that they're wrong that they get in trouble but the truth is if i was raped i don't expect courts to need 33 witnesses to convict my rapist you know know, a lot of people are in jail because one person spoke up and said this happened. So we're so far past the normal bar for proof.

And so everybody in Hollywood, for the most part, there's a few people that are standing up, like Rosie O'Donnell. There's some comedians that are standing up. But there aren't very important figures in our business who say, you know what? This isn't a racial issue. We don't want people like this in our community who say, you know what? This isn't a racial issue. We don't want people like this in our community. This is wrong. People who commit these acts should be in prison. And I believe these women, there's 33 women, go on the computer and there's videos of every one

of these women in great detail explaining what happened. It is bone chilling. The amount of detail that they remember. We're way beyond the point of like, did this happen or did this not happen? It's just, you know, certain statutes of limitations are allowing him to avoid dealing with this. Now, what do you think about when somebody like the showrunner from Black-ish, Kenya Barris, comes at you and says, you know, let it go? I spoke to him afterwards about that. You know, I can understand why someone would say, why does Judd care about this? I don't know.

I have two daughters. I'm a comedian. I see him a little bit as our comedy dad. It's like finding out your comedy dad is a really evil guy. And you want to say, hey, does everybody care about this, that he's doing that? And when the community is pretty silent, then I feel like, well, if no one's going to talk, I'm going to talk. If everybody was talking about it, I probably wouldn't have that much to say about it. But I don't want it to suddenly disappear.

And then he just kind of goes back out on the road and just does his thing and has his hundreds of millions of dollars and all those women are shamed for coming out they're all ignored which is just re-injuring all of those people yeah i think i think that's right and i i and i and i certainly appreciate what you're saying and what you're doing. I just, there is a hopelessness to it in that he is still very powerful. He is not going to be taken to task. And I guess the only way to make him responsible, which he won't be, or at least answer to the reality of the situation is diminish his ability to work. Well, you just don't want him having a blast that's how i look at it i don't want him running around getting standing ovations

you know at the very least go in your mansion and disappear for the rest of your life right you know he shouldn't be rewarded and applauded uh for raping that many women. And that's a huge commitment to rape, by the way. We were talking about this starting in the mid-60s. That's a full commitment for four decades. Well, yeah, obviously somehow in his mind, this was the way he was going to go about it. He was going to be this guy that drugged women and then, you know, then raped him. And somehow in his sick mind, you know, he had made that okay.

That's, you know, that's what serial sociopaths do. Did you see the video of him on the Larry King show in the 90s? And he's talking about Spanish flies. He is absolutely giddy, laughing about the concept of doing that to women. People need to look it up. It's really horrifying. He thinks it's hysterical. He can't even hide it. And that's, you know, look up everything I've ever done in my career. I never brought up Spanish flies. That's not something anyone brings up. Drugging women so they'll have sex with you.

Yeah, it's really a sick situation. I think it's the saddest, most bizarre, in a way, Shakespearean episode that's ever happened in show business. I mean, right now, when he's sitting home with his wife, Camille, what are they talking about? What's happening in that house? What does his butler think? What does his assistant think? Are they all in some cult of Cosby where it's cool or are they

terrified? It's just a doddling old man. And so everyone thinks, oh, that was a long time ago. But there's people just hanging out with him right now. I know. I think that does happen. I mean, there is a certain sort of Stockholm Syndrome type of cultish psychology that happens around the powerful, the people that surround the powerful. There certainly is plenty of people that still are willing not to believe any of these accusations. What do you make of that? Well, the people who don't want to believe it, it's like the same reason why people don't want to believe that Michael Jackson ever did anything with kids.

They just love Thriller, and they don't want to give it up. Maybe that's how his butler and his wife are able to sit there and have dinner. I'm sure. Back in history, when I first heard about these accusations, it probably took me way too long for it to think that this happened. But it's very troublesome, mainly due to the silence, because people should say, this is wrong. It's not the hardest thing in the world to say. Oh, by the way, there's 33 women saying this.

I believe them and this is wrong and people don't say it and look what happened when mel gibson got in trouble yeah mel gibson for just making you know comments was tossed from the business for years they they burnt that guy on the stake for comments, you know, this is actual, you know, violent acts. It was a very sort of lukewarm reaction. I think that you're right, though. I think that it's that if you don't keep it in the public sphere, I understand your argument is that, you know, those people that refuse to want to believe it or see their their lovable hero in that way will just eventually evolve into giving them a pass. And even people that, if nothing is done about it, eventually it'll just fade from public memory.

Well, it also makes women who are assaulted not speak up. So the reason to say Bill Cosby is a terrible man and I believe these women is so that women aren't hiding in their homes in shame when people commit violent crimes against them. I mean, that's why everybody has to say, I just want to go on record. I believe these women. But you're not seeing important people say that. It is dead silent out there. And I find it very very troubling it reminds me of the North Korea issue with the interview you know our whole town was

ready to just shut down on the freedom of speech issue nobody spoke up and said you know we have freedom of speech regardless of the content. You know, you're not allowed to tell us that we can't have freedom of speech anymore. You know, it's much different overseas, you know, the incredible passion to fight for that freedom. But here, everyone backed down. Yeah, it just seems that, you know, people within the business world, you know, will always, their default is, you know, to protect business or to try to keep business in the status quo without really fighting the good fight. They'd rather just take the hit financially and not cause trouble and then move on. For the most part, that's the case.

And I think that money wins the day for the most part. At the Bill Cosby show, everybody knows that this guy is up to no good. They may not know he's raping people, but he's certainly doing terrible things with women and casting couches and cheating on his wife. Everyone at that show knows what's happening. It is not a secret. I've worked on television shows. If I had sex with one of the extras of girls, you would know about it three hours later. Well, you probably, yeah, that's true, Jed.

It's not that anyone in this industry was unaware that he was a wretch. Well, that's what I'm saying. Everybody knew that he was a terrible guy for decades and decades. It was not a secret in our industry. But when it goes into this kind of criminal activity, and all those people remain silent or say, that's not the Bill Cosby I knew. Well, I'm sure the Bill Cosby you knew was also awful in a different way. He wasn't a great guy. Everybody knows.

I have a relative who was working on a TV show, and Bill Cosby was the guest star. And before he arrived, everyone was like, she needs to stay away from cosby make sure he doesn't see her really his reputation preceded him for decades and decades but but people aren't even coming out talking about just you know the those types of stories of just you know a guy on the hunt for a very long time. And I think part of it is the racial aspect of it, because yes, he did things that were very important in the civil rights struggle, and he did great things, but he also did some things that were as evil as you can do on Earth. And there's a lot of great people who fight for civil rights, and we don't need him.

We don't need his legacy. There are a lot of other people who we could look up to, and we could say, you know what, he did great things, but he also did evil things. But the fact that he did great things doesn't mean you ignore this type of violence. Right. And I don't look at it like this is about a black person or a white person. To me, Bill Cosby is a comedian. Right. And I just look at it as someone in my family did something terrible,

and I think we all should be clear and say, this is awful. We don't accept this in our comedy community. Agreed. And I appreciate you talking to me, man. You know, I love this subject because when I talk about it, I completely lose my sense of humor.

And I remember during the Iraq War, the run-up to the Iraq War, Janine Garofalo would be on TV all the time, and I remember during the Iraq war the run up to the Iraq war Janine Garofalo would be on TV all the time and I thought oh I wish she could do this with a sense of humor because she was right about everything and she predicted everything bad that would happen in the Middle East but she didn't find a way to make it funny

and so people resisted her thoughts and I know I'm doing the exact same thing and I completely relate because when the exact same thing and and I completely relate because when something is that awful that painful it's very hard to hold on to your sense of humor so uh on this day I uh I commend John Stewart as the greatest genius of all time even though he doesn't like you for some reason all right there's a reason but but uh but thanks for talking to me man i'm glad you're doing well all right thanks mark it's jeff garland's turn jeff garland and i go back years

and years we didn't come up together but i've known him he's been on my periphery for a while i think i first met him in san francisco we'll talk about that but he's also appeared he was in the first season of uh of marin on ifc uh i have done his show he has done a live version of this show but i was happy he was able to sit down and talk because my concern with jeff is always am i going to talk is there going to be talking available is there going to be talking time available for me mark Mark Maron, in my own show? And Jeff and I share some things, different styles of it. He's got food issues. I got food issues. He's got them. He wrote about them. But I think we got down to something here. It's not easy to get Jeff to just sort of engage and listen. And we did it. We did it. Before we go to Jeff, I do want to say that we have some new music here between segments this

week and over the next few episodes. It was made by Dean Copley, a big fan of the show from Kalamazoo. You can check him out. He's DJ Copley on Facebook and Web Puppy 45 on Twitter. So let's go now to my conversation with Jeff Garland. It's hockey season, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats. But iced tea, ice cream, or just plain old ice? Yes, we deliver those. Goal tenders, no.

But chicken tenders, yes. Because those are groceries,, we deliver those. Gold tenders? No. But chicken tenders? Yes. Because those are groceries, and we deliver those too. Along with your favorite restaurant food, alcohol, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details.

It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton. The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5 p.m. in Rock City at torontorock.com. Harlan. You going to wear headphones? I want to.

Do you want to wear them? Yeah, I'm going to wear mine. Yeah, I'll wear mine too. That way you can modulate your loud voice. Yes, I can modulate your loud voice. Yes, I can modulate my loud voice. Look, Jeff, you want to play comfortable? You're going to be comfortable? What?

What the fuck are you talking about? Let's just start with the elephant in the room. Which is what? Why were you feeling slighted? All right. Let's take a few slighted? All right. Let's take a few steps back. All right?

Let's take a few steps back. Not to the beginning of our friendship. Not to the beginning of our careers. None of that. All right. You want to get this out, right? No, I don't give a shit. I don't like your tone.

I know you don't. Ha, ha, ha! I so confuse you because I call you on your shit yet i love you do you know i'm saying like yeah i have nothing but positivity and love for you and that's that fucks you up that confuses you but what's happening right now right now i am calling you on your show let's let me finish all right okay. So the basic premise is that, you know, I wanted to do your show. I was the greasy or the squeaky wheel. For a change, I was the one complaining about shit. Right.

That's not like me. It threw me. I bet you it did. Yeah, but I'm here. I know. Well, because I, yeah, it worked it worked it did well let me just explain something to you in my mind we'd done the live one i had done yours and uh i just really had forgotten the first off the live one it was fun and i had fun with it i don't know

how much fun you had with me having fun but But the point being is this is totally different than the live one. I know, but I would have gotten to you. That was my point. You would have gotten to me? Yeah. What does that mean? I just, I've forgotten to. By the way, just so the listeners know.

Yeah. All I did was ask you a few times why I'm not on the show. Well, it was a little more loaded than that. Well, however you want to phrase it. But the point being is it's not like we weren't speaking no no we were fine one in the morning i get an email that says i get it you don't want me on the show well yes i know and by the way that was that was uh understood no problem and then then you continue to have that conversation even after i chimed in no no no i understand you don't want me on your show it was clear to me it was so clear to me

that i decided yeah no you would have eventually gotten to me what does that even mean the show's not going anywhere you reminded me and i'm like i could it could have just been like hey am i gonna do the show soon but, it was like laced with guilt. No, no, no, no, no. First it wasn't. Then it became not guilt. I don't work with guilt. And by the way, me saying I get it was me saying I get it.

You were wrong, I think. I was wrong. Yeah. By the way, are you curious about me? Do you have things you want to ask me? Yeah, yeah. Is that why I'm not on the show? No, no, no, no.

I knew that there would never be a problem. Because I'm going to give you every honest answer in the world. Okay. You'd expect nothing else. Well, no. The weird thing is I can't even remember the first time we met. I think it was in San Francisco. You were doing some version of Someone I Want to Eat Something With.

Was that one at the improv when I was doing it there? Right, right. I feel like that's the first time we met. Were you playing cobs or something? No, I lived in San Francisco then. You lived in San Francisco then? What year was that, like 92, 90? It was mid, I don't even remember.

93? Yeah, 90s. Right? Early 90s, yeah. And I feel like that was the first time I met you and I really had no idea who you were until that time. Wait a minute, wait a because we wait a minute wait a minute no no let's take a step back well we met in new york before that you think in the 80s yes

i was living there when you were doing uh when you were doing um uh the comedy channel was the comedy attention span theater attention span theater right i was okay so that goes way back it'd be caroline's the comic strip uh the Cellar. But you weren't there that long, though, were you? Yeah, I was there for a while. Because I used to do Boston and stuff. I don't remember. The Boston Comedy Club. Yeah.

I used to play Boston Comedy Club all the time. But I remember you playing Boston Comedy Club. Right. We just didn't really talk that much. Right. I think we weren't even acquaintances. Right. We were like, hey, how you doing?

Right. I don't think we were anything more than that. And then, I think you're right, San Francisco. And then over the years, we just acquaintances. Right. We were like, hey, how you doing? Right. I don't think we're anything more than that. And then, I think you're right, San Francisco. And then over the years, we just became closer. Right. Through sheer being around. Right. And also, you know, it's not like a lot of guys our age.

And I don't want to say like we're Baron Von Old. Right. But the point being is, let's say the comedy store where you and i work out yeah okay and that's really and that really is now yes yeah but that really is like our gym that's like going to lift weights sure that's exactly what it is yeah not a lot of guys our age a lot but people are a lot younger than us there yeah no that's true that's true except for argus and we have that's a whole other thing but but but but um it's like we're you know in this you know even even who who there even works out in their 40s bill bill burr on occasion sarah you know what i mean it's like i'm talking about in like the last decade yeah we want yeah

we want but we want to stay fresh keep that going we do it but there's not a lot of our peers that do that yeah i know a lot of them are working it, but there's not a lot of our peers that do that. Yeah, I know. A lot of them are working on the road more, I think. A lot of them are working on the road or quit. That was interesting. It didn't stick in my craw, but I knew that you were hired by Jon Stewart, maybe I'm wrong, to help him put together his special.

Yes, that's completely true. You were a dramaturge in a way. You were helping, like in my mind at some point, did you do it with Leary as well? I did it with Dennis Leary first. I developed their specials with them. I went on the road with them. I'd go up first. I'd come off.

I'd take notes. And so I directed their specials, but I didn't direct the cameras. Right, you were like a dramaturg. I was a stage director for their shows. And I also edited with the writing. Yeah, right, but you became that guy that did that. Was that a service you provided? Or was it just those two guys?

It could have been a direction that I would just go down, but it was those two guys. I mean, yes, people have asked me, and I've given notes before, but they were the only two guys that I actually did that with. And then my question is- And I got credit. Like, in other words- Right, right, right.

You know, yeah. Right. But that's an interesting place, because you're a guy that comes from a bit of a theater background, at least an improv background. Right. And, you know, sometimes it's good to have a second, you know, second set of eyes. Without, like, if I was working on a set, I would love it to have, like, you in the audience telling me, here's what you thought of the set.

Here's what I might want to think about, not think about. You want somebody you can trust. But do you do that? I mean, you don't seem to, you don't, like. I would do. I've done it for at this point in my life yeah you would have to say to me can you come watch me right and tell me right and i would gladly do that i remember i gave you advice once before you did and yeah uh when i i think i

told you to you know to open with the banana again or something i'm sorry for screwing up your sound yeah it's all right but that you know where that came from? That came from... But it was, like, terrible. Well, it was... It worked once. Well, here's the premise of it. The premise of it was I was at breakfast with some friends,

and there was a banana on the table, and I just picked it up and said, hello. Yeah. What do you mean the president's dead? Yeah. You know, something stupid. Yeah. And then I said, I'm going to do this on stage. I'm going to bring a banana up, table and i just picked it up and said hello yeah what do you mean the president's dead yeah you know something stupid yeah and then i said i'm gonna do this on stage i'm gonna bring a banana up and i'm gonna take the most simple and the truth was it actually worked for a while until i got bored with it you saw it when i was bored with it and you said yeah open with that be sure

and do that which killed me and i i dropped it but it was to me it was like so stupid yeah to add during my set to answer a banana yeah we have a you have a a pretty uh absurd streak and an improvisational nature but let me ask you this before like i'm going to set up a few things and we'll go back okay like the the the relationship with larry on curb like is it my misconception that what was it did it start as a similar relationship as you and john and you and dennis very very much like you know jeff's very good at helping with the putting together of the special it well actually what it what it was that it actually uh hbo had approached larry and said we want to do something with you a A special kind of thing. No, no, no.

They wanted to do a series with him. Okay. And they said, let's start by doing some sort of special or something. Right, right. But no, no, actually, I take that back. They never said special to him. They said, we want to do a series with you. Chris Albrecht made it known to Larry.

Boom. Okay. Larry and I, I was writing with Alan Zweibel this show that ironically was a companion piece for Everybody Loves Raymond instead of choosing mine they chose King of Queens. Really? Yeah. Huh. I never even got to

it was just which is good because it led to Curb. That was sort of bouncing around for a while Johnny Red Wilson did one too that had a man cave jackie gleason he kind of feel oh he did it didn't get it didn't go either well mine mine was not mine was uh uh different it was uh it was not like king they just wanted a companion show right right and it was the same year that they were developing king of queens so larry's office is right next to

alan's white bells when i say office it's like a little suite of offices with Billy Crystal. Where's this? At Castle Rock. Yeah. And I would go into Larry's office every day and talk to him. I knew him from being a comic, you know. And one day we went to lunch, and I said, if you ever want to do a comedy special, I have the perfect idea, you know. It would be the behind the scenes of the making of a comedy special. Right.

And you'd never have to shoot the special. You could back out. Right. And then that would be the special. And it came from my experiences with Jon Stewart and Dennis Leary. Right. Doing their thing. Right.

And he said, I love it. And then we went to Chris Albrecht and told him the idea. And he said, his exact words were how can i not do this how often you ever hear those right and so we went and did that and he said to me the first day of filming wouldn't this be great as a series yeah and in my head i thought yeah right yeah yeah yeah it would be of course it'd be great as a series because it was because it was as if Larry and I had worked together for 40 years right it was just natural from the very well it was natural from the audition process when we were auditioning

people um you know we felt like wow this is really weird that we have this connection and then he said that to me and then we did it and lo and behold the hbo said we'd like to do this as a series and that's how it started that's how it started it's interesting because so i wasn't so off no you weren't off because i was thinking when you said to me was there anybody else besides dennis leary and john stewart i'm thinking there was somebody else and the somebody else was larry right yeah that's who the other person was so now like i here's the here's why i think we didn't know each other when we were younger really was that like i didn't see you as a like a comic in my little world like i was hanging around was like a tell and louis and and jeff ross todd

berry but you were i i when you were doing that yeah i was hanging out with Jon Stewart, Dennis Leary, like a different group. A little older, a little more established. Yeah, a little more older, a little more established. The only person of your group that I was actually friends with was Louis. Yeah. I've been friends with Louis forever. Right. And as a matter of fact, Louis and I just talked about you the other day.

Yeah. How smart you are. Oh. and I just talked about you the other day. Yeah. How smart you are. Oh. But when I was, I only, Bill Grunfest, I'll say his name.

I don't give a shit. Doesn't matter. Never would put, he was scared to put me up. He wouldn't put me up either. What was his reasoning? At the Comedy Star, Bill Grunfest was the original booker. Now, and the host. His reason was just like the same reason for you. Taking risks.

Doing things differently. He liked when, you taking risks doing things differently yeah he liked when you know but you know what he did which was strange he gave me thursday nights to mc yeah so i would mc thursday nights and a towel would come in people would come in late at night and i'd put them on when they weren't normally getting spots down there right so but when did you you started in where'd you grow up i I grew up in Chicago and South Florida. What's that? It was Chicago. What part of Chicago?

Jewish part? There were Jews amongst me at all. But not Highland Park. Not Highland Park. No. I grew up in a suburb that had a significant amount of Jewish people in it. They were called Morton Grove. But what was your thing?

Like when you were a kid, were you a jock? No, I was. Well, I was one of these weird sort of i played every sport and i was the class clown but you were you were on the teams i was on the teams and i was actually because you're a big boy yeah no i was a good athlete yeah i could feel that um yeah i played football played baseball i played everything you played football, I played baseball, I played everything. You played football in high school? Yes. What position? I was a guard and a tackle and a defensive tackle. Big guy.

Big guy. I was about the same size I am now. I was like 6'1", 230 or so. Baseball? Baseball. You played baseball? Power hitting first baseman. First baseman?

Yeah. Got to be quick. Yeah, I was actually quick. Better fielder than I was a hitter. Yeah? Yeah, but I was a good hitter. No track. What do you mean no track?

You didn't run track. I did shot put and discus. That makes sense. See, I did all of it. And by the way, I was the fastest lineman. Like I ran faster than some of our running backs. But here's the problem. Yeah.

The problem was I had a heart ailment. Did you still? No, it was corrected. It was called Wolf-Parkinson-White syndrome. Wow. It's a thing where you get like an extra pathway in your heart. You get like tachycardia. So I had to quit playing all sports.

How'd they fix it? I was the 72nd person ever to have this done. Now millions have had it done. Since then, Michael Cera had the same thing. Oh, really? He had it done since then michael sarah had the same thing oh really and before he had it fixed and before me i was number 72 number like 14 was mitch herwitz who created arrested development i never knew that there were actual credits for a medical i was so early when they fixed me it said on the machine not for human use oh really it was like a dog thing i'd like to

say for you a cat thing the names of the people previous yeah they were all etched in charlotte was this year um but i didn't know that but they what they do is they burn the extra pathway with high frequency waves that stops the tachycardia so anyone who has any sort of tachycardia this is how they fix it now like when i was having my procedure done yeah which I had to go to Oklahoma City to have it done. That's where they do all the big heart stuff. Well, they did then, the inventor and all that, Oklahoma City. Of this particular.

Of this thing. And Oklahoma State University. No, one of the Oklahoma Universities. Did you enjoy Oklahoma? Oklahoma's fine. I wish the thunder was. Oklahoma's okay. Yeah, it's okay.

It is, you know. So I had it fixed. But what it does is at a young age, you have a vulnerability that your peers don't have. Like I thought I was going to die a million times. Just because your heart would race out of nowhere. Race out of nowhere. And then ultimately I didn't get it fixed

until I was in my late 20s i was in second city and i had tachycardia on stage thought i was gonna die told them the cover for me went in the back stairwell i thought i was dead and then i went and uh had it fixed surprised me you didn't use it use it up there stay on stage stay on stage by the way i have stayed on stage with tachycardia i remember doing stand-up early on they i had i originally before they knew what it was i had um indoral which is like a slows your heart down yeah you know because of the anxiety of when i went on stage i had great anxiety when i first started yeah now it's you know now it's the opposite it seems it seems i by the way i would go on record as saying that I might be the most relaxed comedian on stage in the business.

To a fault, I might add. To a fault. I will not argue with you. To a fault. I could nap on stage if I had to. I'm surprised you haven't tried that yet. Yeah. Because people say, you know, because people who don't know me who are still listening, I improvise a lot on stage.

I sometimes have material, but I improvise a lot on stage i i sometimes have material but i improvise a lot on stage and it should make me a little more tense and excited before i go up instead it's very relaxing i imagine and i'm just thinking this now looking you right in the eye that i would be maybe tense if i had a set set from point A to point E. Yeah. You know, I think I've sort of gently nudged you towards perhaps writing a joke. You have. No, no. In all sincerity, you've been supportive over, you know, maybe you want to try this.

Maybe you get off stage and I'm like, hey, maybe write something. More than that. But, you know, yes, you're right. Yes, you have. But, okay, so you're jock, but you know yes you're right yes you have but okay so you're you're you're you're jock but you're funny jock you're in high school you're a big guy i was friends with the nerds and the yeah i did that you go both places because you're smart enough yeah do that yeah uh you weren't a bully no god no you're a little loud but not a bully a little loud but not a bully there you go that can be misunderstood you know i'm a big bowl of gregarious yeah it's right just a charismatic large machine of jew

that's where your big bowl of jew loud too loud yeah but uh but like what what kind of do you have siblings i have a younger brother what's up to? Did he ever get to talk? He has his share of resentment. I'm not kidding. Towards you. Towards you. Towards me, most definitely. We love each other.

We're close. Yeah. But he has his share of resentment of being in my shadow. What does he do? He is the director of a temple. Really? Yes. Outside of Chicago in Northbrook, I believe it is.

My God. So he has resentment and he's a spiritual man, I'm assuming. He was trying to get me to go to Israel and all sorts of stuff like that. That's not going to happen. What's his resentment based on? It's based on growing up in my shadow. And his name when he was little was Little Garland. Oh, right.

I mean, that alone can shove you down a path. And you can't process that? It's still there? Well, no, there's other things. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's, you know, by the way, where he goes, people hear his voice and they go, you sound just like that guy. You know, it's. Oh, people are familiar yeah and also close enough and not only that but running in the jewish

community yeah um the goldbergs and curb your enthusiasm are two very big jewish shows yeah so so now he's got to deal with that yeah and the irony is you're a bonafide jew star yeah but but the irony is i'm not very well i'm proud to be jewish and all that but i'm not very religious i don't like organized religion no i understand and he works in organized religion right but it's jews yes it's jews but it's still to me it's all organized religion yeah okay no of course it is i understand that it is yeah yeah but like and i'm spiritual i do my transcend i do transcendental that. I do my transcendental meditation twice a day. I'm a person who thinks that there is a God, probably.

Yeah. But I mean, to me... By the way, you don't believe in God, right? Or you do? I just stay out of it. By the way, big bowl of agree with you. Yeah. Just stay out of it by the way big bowl of agree with you just stay out of it if there is a he or a she

or whatever God being it is hi how are you I hope I'm doing the right thing you know what I mean I try to behave as best I can it's like I don't need a God to judge me I'm on top of that I am so with you.

You know, we're almost two sides of the same coin. Yeah. You would be the louder side. All right. Enough with the loud. Okay. Enough with the loud. Your laugh is pretty, you know.

No, because I have my share of self-loathing. You do? Most definitely. And codependency and all sorts of crap. Really? But the thing is, I don't take others down. I've taken a few down. Yes, you have.

What are you talking about like that? Oh, shut up. I will wrestle you. Who are you talking about? You have let it be known. Here's the thing. Okay. Here's the thing.

Okay. If I'm insecure about a situation or I'm just not comfortable with something, if you don't know me intimately, you won't know about it. If you don't know me intimately, that's who will know about it. That's who will know about it. And also, when I'm on stage, I'm more than happy to be vulnerable and expose myself but when i'm off stage you don't you know unless you're close to me you don't have a chance in hell of knowing me well yeah i can i could feel that like i don't feel like i know you completely well but you could right you're you're in my i mean i don't want to make like i've got the circle but you in are in my circle of intimates and friends, and I'd feel very comfortable talking to you about

anything. Well, how do I get to know you? I just call up and- Oh, stop it now. Don't make me wrestle you. What are you doing? How do I get to know you? No, no.

I'm serious. Because I'm not queer. I know a lot of people, but I don't have that many friends. I don't hang out with many people. Well, just call me and say, do you want to have coffee? Yeah. Why not? Okay.

All right. But here's the thing. As much as you're saying, oh, saying oh yeah okay do you know how many times you've said that to me before no i'll go at least twice you've said you've said to me on the flip side hey why don't we ever have coffee and you said that to me too and sometimes it just doesn't happen i mean it's not it's not personal no no hold on a second yes it's not personal but i'm saying i would have coffee with you anytime. All right, okay. Can we keep this tone when we're having it? By the way, the odds are likely because we have sort of a realistic

Jack, Benny, Fred Allen type relationship. You know what I mean? And they were close friends, you know? We want to do this on stage? Yeah, but we have done it on stage. When you did my show, it was very apparent yeah here's the thing here's my here's my tagline in our comedy team reel it in jeff reel it in but the fact is we do have a very honest relationship i think we do and i'm very comfortable with you at all times i don't want to say what it

is unless you want it but recently i told you that something was beneath you that you shouldn't do that yeah you know and so right right yeah yeah so I'm saying and I felt comfortable saying that to you and I was comfortable saying what it is that like I don't need to throw people under the bus out of my own petty resentment yes exactly publicly yes because it doesn't make me look good it does not like I should not say Jerry Se seinfeld doesn't know who i am right and and be bitchy about it yes exactly you shouldn't it's way beneath you he doesn't i don't think he has any all right stop it he i'm sure he does but he's not gonna he's not actively thinking that mark maron i'm not gonna have to yeah he's

never no it's passive yeah if brought up yeah no but you do you but the thing is you do bring it up only a few people yeah a few people was it rowing stone the new yorker where did i read it all right that was yeah that's my point but that's it no don't do that yeah don't do it it's beneath you okay because you're you're you're to me i was gonna say a man of letters but you're an acerbic brilliant guy yeah yeah and and um why be petty why be petty and also i watch you i i so enjoy your comedy yeah you make you make me laugh yeah and laugh hard yeah really hard you know yeah so i just it's beneath you man okay and by the way by the way would i want to do your podcast if it wasn't something that was excellent and a good, I don't like wasting my time.

And this is not a waste of my time. I dig this. This is awesome. So your brother's the Jewish director of a temple. Yes. You guys hang out sometimes. Yes. Yes.

When I mentioned your parents still alive. My dad, I remember I said on your show, I improvised it, but it was true because he had just died. We were talking about something with, well, yeah, that's right. He's dead. I said, my dad's dead, I improvised it, but it was true because he had just died. We were talking about something with- Oh, yeah, that's right. He's dead. And I said, my dad's dead, which you used in the show. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And he had just died. And my mom is still alive, but has brain cancer. Ugh. She's had it. But by the way, she was only supposed to, generally a year for this type of brain cancer, this terminal thing. She's been going three years. She's still cooking.

She's still driving. She's going. And she's all there? All there. That's amazing. Yeah. So when you grew up, what was your father's task? What was his work?

Oh, my dad, first he used to work in the plumbing supply business. My family owned a plumbing supply business in Chicago. Your grandfather? My grandfather did. Did you know him? Yes. I knew both my grandfathers, but it was my dad's father who had the plumbing supply and I was very close with him. He died at 99. It's like a hardware store-ish. No, no, no. Plumbing supply is an actual, like the parts. It was like a factory. They made them. Oh, really? Yeah. Was your grandfather like a character? they made them oh really yeah and what it was your grandfather like

a character yeah he was a character my grandfather was eternally positive like he ignored anything that was negative you're kind of like that no i'm not negative stuff you try despite why is by the way externally very positive very supportive now i would i'm weird as a comic because i comics that i like boy i cheer on yeah and i root for you know um no he was just like uh if it's negative it's no good and and to me negative things can affect me and make me down and depress me but i won't take others down with me yeah you don't You won't take the lifeguard down with you. No, I will not. I'll go on my own, and he'll swim back and go,

I tried to get the fat fella. That's right, but he seemed insistent. He seemed insistent on drowning. Yeah. Yeah, so he and my grandmother, on the other hand, who I was also very close with, was eternally negative. His wife. Yeah, she hated everybody and everything.

And one of the only things in the world she loved was me. And hopefully her husband. Yeah, she did. Yes, she did. But nonetheless, she was, I can't tell you how negative. Yeah. I mean, unbelievable. Like what?

Where'd it come from? Oh, I don't know where it came from. It just was, I don't like her. She'd be at functions with other relatives, standing in the corner, talking about the relatives that were 10 feet away, and they could all hear her. from it just was it just i don't like her she'd be at functions with other relatives yeah standing in the corner talking about the relatives that were 10 feet away and they could all hear her and your mother's she was the least popular of everyone in the family i can't understand why yeah but i loved her she was great he had personality had a point of view and my my

mother's parents were uh very nice my my grandfather was funny and my grandmother was a very sweet, sweet lady. And you grew up in suburban Chicago. I was born in the city. Yeah, suburban Chicago Jews. So you had the food, the cookies and stuff. All the stuff. It's familiar to me.

Yes, it was unequivocally classic. We'd go to South Florida for vacation. So this TV show, The Goldbergquivocally classic. We'll go to South Florida for vacation. So this TV show, The Goldbergs, is no stretch? Not by any stretch. No, there's no stretch there whatsoever. It's like, oh, I've lived here. And by the way, on the show, I take off my pants.

They say, you have a problem with that? I go, that's what I do when I go home now. My dad did it too. The difference is my dad wore tighty-whities. I wore boxer briefs. And now I hope on the show wore tighty-whities. I wear boxer briefs. And now I hope on the show and tighty-whities under the boxer briefs. No. By the way, they're really uncomfortable, the tighty-whities that I have to wear.

Because it's like too layered. They can't see any movement on the show. Right. That's what I mean. So you wear them under the boxers. No, no, no. I just wear the tighty-whities, but they're layered. Oh.

But I don't wear them under the pants. I only wear them in the scene. I don't wear them every day when I come in. No, when you're doing no-pants scenes. When I do no-pants scenes, I wear these special things. It's like a foam padding. Sure. It's like a whole rigamarole so I don't...

Jiggle. So I don't jiggle. So there's no wiener action for the young people. Yeah, they don't see any movement. None. Whatever's in there is stationary. Docile. There's an older woman who does the you

know comes in to check and she'll say sometimes i see shadows now the only way you could see a shadow is if someone put a flashlight behind my balls right and i was wearing something sheer yeah it's in her imagination she's seeing my my shadows it's trauma induced probably i don't know what her story is yeah ask her about her grandparents ask her about where the shadows started where the shadows started where did it start where were the shadows first seen yeah all right so what what compels you towards comedy when did that happen um always the funniest from nursery school on noation, I was the class clown. Do you need a lot of attention? You do, right? Did. Did.

I feel so much more secure than when I did when I was younger. How recent? Like in the last decade? Yeah, very much so. Because things start to work out. Yeah, I strive to be spiritual i strive to be uh calm but yeah but don't you tm has helped me with that but don't you think there's just finding a like real success like and all of a sudden you know having no no no no because real success to

me makes you you can go one of two ways you can go down the path of finding some enlightenment and growing as a person, or you can become more of the bad side. Ego can ruin and rule your work. No, I get that. But what I'm saying is that, like, for years, look, I mean, we'll get back to the history in a minute. For years, you were sort of pounding your head against the wall. You weren't a straight stand-up in the way that you didn't want to do sets. Right. You know, you sort of avoided something, whether it was, you know by by design or by insecurity i don't know i don't know either

so so like you know you saw a lot of us who your contemporaries doing specials doing this doing that yes and then you know your first real success comes from you know helping another comic yes create something and i'd seen some of the one person i saw the one one person show 93 or whatever that i think became the first movie right i want someone to eat cheese with right which made no sense to me the title it was based on suzanna melvoin yeah um who she anyhow she and i were having lunch in new York, and she said to me, we were talking about what we wanted in a relationship. She said, I want someone to eat cheese with. And I said, that's what I want.

That's so simple. And so I just hung on to the title for a one-man show. Right. And then when I did the movie. Yeah, I don't love cheese. I don't either. I don't even like, I talk in the movie about not liking,

you'd think I'd be a guy who likes fudge, because I ask the next question I ask, I don't like f't either. I don't even like, I talk in the movie about not liking, you'd think I'd be a guy who likes fudge because I ask the next question I ask, I don't like fudge either. But fudge doesn't really happen in the real world. It's something you go to a place, a tourist place. Oh, there's fudge places all over the Midwest where I'm from.

Lots of fudge. Yeah? Yeah. It was a thing? People had fudge in the house? Right down three, a few doors down from Zaney's, a half a block from Second City,

the fudge pop. But my point is, is that like- Where my picture hangs. One of the few places on earth where my picture hangs. It's me at like 26. Signed to the fudge place. Sounds of the fudge pot.

Yeah, that's it. But you don't love fudge. I love the idea that the only, actually, to be honest, the only place my picture hangs is the fudge pot. Okay. Since then, any dry cleaner or whatever that's asked me, no. No, just the fudge pot. One picture. One picture of the fudge pot okay i since then any dry cleaner or whatever that's asked me no no no just the one picture one picture the fudge pot yep but well i guess my point is is that i it seems to me that you may not have been sure how you were going to make your break right uh but you know traditional

stand-up was not really your bag well it was my bag and my passion i just wasn't a traditional stand-up right that's a better way to say it because i never stopped working never stopped doing sets but they were sets by my definition but when you were offered an opportunity to do a a structured set did you say i can't i can't no i put it together I did Letterman. I did an HBO half hour. Right. So I did. Right. But you didn't feel that it really showcased you?

No, it did. And the Letterman thing, I could not have had a better set on Letterman. Yeah. I really destroyed. My half hour, pretty good. Yeah. But the point being is I was much better as a guy who improvised really focusing on six minutes than i was and also turns out you're better at being in the present with somebody else

always yeah and that and that really became you know what you know catapulted you right both you know as a person who works behind the scenes and as a person on camera. Right. Yes. So I guess my point is, is that I have to imagine that once you found your groove as a performer and found some, you know, some place to really have fun and work and do what you're great at, you must've felt better about yourself. One had nothing to do with the other.

Come on. No. One had nothing to do with the other. I felt that to me, none of your self-esteem hinged on, on, on. I mean, actually. So what the hold on hold on hold on yes when i was younger what propelled me into stand-up was being liked and meeting girls the fact that my tool was being funny that's what i was really great at yeah that's what i use to meet girls and to get be accepted yeah but at a certain point

what is that you can't i can't be defined by so the point is that's how i became so fearless i go on stage doesn't matter what happens my personal self-worth in no way hinges i mean i could do letterman tonight i'd feel bad if i did letterman and ate it but the point being is i really it's they're two separate things well so i well that's interesting because i i find that's what's baffling is sometimes and you know this is not a dig but sometimes when you get off stage and i know when you do well and i know when you don't do well right right but you don't act differently either way and i don't and i don't at all and i'll come up to you and i'll start poking around like what's going on did that and you don't you don't register any feeling of

like you know god that was fucking terrible it's like it didn't even happen and then i'm like that there's something wrong with that guy maybe and then i but i drive home and i you know when i drive home and cry no but i say but i would drive home and think about maybe my conversation. Here's the odds. The odds are I'm going to drive home and think about what we talked about and have already forgotten my set. I've gotten better at that. But sometimes, though, when I can't get over on them

or when there's some sort of fundamental resistance and I know some of it has to do with me. Oh, that's something. I mean, you've seen me do that yes hopefully yes i have and you brought it to my attention like i think you were a little overly angry at that situation but but then i feel bad well i i but i'm saying that's the that's what i'm saying we're two sides of a very of a similar coin well then if this is the case my side of the coin it's all personal stuff and your side of the coin is it

well it's all personal but i take it out yeah yeah because i make my personal public it there's no boundaries there but then then what was the the fundamental issue you were having that you know that all of a sudden you feel better because you're meditating and everything else what was brewing inside of you what was why were you what What was it that was happening that made you go, like, I got to fix this? Well, I got to tell you, it didn't really get fixed. Really, really get fixed until a year ago. Well, what is it? I got arrested.

Was that the road rage thing? Yes, that was the, quote, road rage thing. It wasn't really road rage. I don't know what it was. Well, what it was was, without going into immense detail. Why not? Well, because. Legal reasons?

No, I don't want to bore people. You're not going to bore people. You got arrested. I've done it in my stand-up since then. No, here's the thing. I was on this path, this path of striving for enlightenment striving to be the best when did that start though maybe sometime in my early 40s all right so it took like by the way it's still happening i know

but what i'm saying is like you did you did the movie in your early 40s so you're already working i'm saying is like you did you did the movie in your early 40s so you're already working so like you know what what and i had a stroke at that point what i had a stroke at 37 really yeah yeah i had a stroke at 37 what happened i woke up one morning the room was spinning and i had had back surgery the month before i was on a cocktail of a bunch of drugs. Where were you living? Here in West Hollywood, on Sweetser. Married and everything? Married and everything. Married, pregnant.

My wife was pregnant with our second child. Are you working? I'm working. As a matter of fact, I'd already shot the hour Larry David special. Okay. As a matter of fact, if anyone wants to go back

and watch the first season of Curb Your En the very first episode you will notice that i'm strokey von strokey i can barely talk i got better because i had to perform the first season was this before or after you oh this is before you and i pitched that ridiculous show to nbc before you started started curb yeah but i was before i had a stroke and everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We should talk about that later. All right, so you wake up, the room's spinning. The room is the room spinning. My wife had told me that after the surgery,

my eye was kind of droopy. I'm on all sorts of meds. I didn't know it, but I had developed type 2 diabetes. Yeah, so you have that. I do have that, yeah, but i try controlling it with diet and exercise um which i've been pretty good i've kept the weight is that genetic type two yeah i don't know i guess if it's genetic if you're i mean i have diabetes in my family how do you get one is the other people well i don't know how you get type 1 type 2 comes when you when you have metabolic

syndrome when you have a lot of weight you have a high cholesterol how's your cholesterol now good it's been great are you on the I'm not on anything so you have the stroke room spinning room spinning I go to the hospital tell me I have a stroke I'm

slurring my words I'm thinking I'm never going to be a comedian again can you remember shit or what I remember everything 100% so. I'm slurring my words. I'm thinking I'm never going to be a comedian again. Can you remember shit or what? I remember everything 100%. So you're just slurring your words. I'm having trouble walking. Really? I have to have help walking. And during the course of, I never thought I'd work again. But no, but what'd you do? You went to the hospital? Yeah, I went to the emergency room and they said you had a stroke and they put me on blood thinners, Yeah, I went to the emergency room and they said you had a stroke and they put me on blood thinners, Coumadin. Yeah. And I was in the hospital for a couple weeks, I believe.

Really? Yeah, and I really was sitting in the hospital going. What do I do now? Yeah, what do I do now? And I'm about to have another kid. Oh, my God. No, it was. But the thing is, through my life, I had the heart problem.

I've had these vulnerable things. Yeah. So that's why I look at life maybe a little bit different and a little more positive you know yeah but but also it's interesting because you are such a sort of bombastic sort of momentum guy right that like sort of like everything's happening and like boom out of nowhere yeah this thing and they have no control over but that's what i got from my mom my mom was a has always been a uh when i was a kid she would say to me she'd go return something it's always so embarrassing yeah she'd say a clerk is a jerk like i go and i never understood it's like why is that person a jerk they're helping you but she was the point she was making is get the manager, get what you need done. Very much like the woman who plays my wife on the Goldbergs.

Right. You know. Who plays your wife on the Goldbergs? Wendy McClendon Covey. I call her Wendy McClendon Willie McCovey. All right, so you have this thing, and you go to the emergency room, you had a stroke,

and you're in the hospital for two weeks. You're fearing for the future of your life and career. But just like, I didn't let anything stop me. I wouldn't walk with a cane. I'd walk with a golf club. How long did it take? It took about six months. To fully rehab?

To fully rehab. I went through regular rehab. I went through talking rehab. I had to start filming Curb Your Enthusiasm a month later. I got to give credit or credits to Jamie Masada man that guy gave me tons of spots and I had trouble because I had had a stroke but it just kept on giving me the spots did that make you feel weird when he got off stage like were you feeling like well it's no it's frustrating because I when you can't all right there's no I I think there's no worse feeling when an audience is primed to see you and happy to see you and you suck.

Right. Now, I can deal with I'm on fire, I'm feeling good, and they're not grooving to it. That's fine. That's their problem. Right. Okay? But if you know you're- But if I know they're great and they're ready and I blow.

So it was night after night of this is a good crowd and I can't do what I'm supposed to. But I'm trying. I'm doing the best I can. I'm doing the best I can. And I didn't get too down on myself, but it was depressing. But I kept on fighting and fighting and fighting. So when you have that attitude, what can stop me? Right.

But you say that was the beginning of a more spiritual search and you're talking about just will yeah and and a spiritual search but jumping now to the to the so i thought that i was on that path until i got arrested that's when being arrested was at 40 at 50 just turned 52 it's like a week after my 52nd birthday this is less than a year ago yeah yeah so after the stroke you you rebuilt was it last summer or was it my 51st birthday that was my 50th all right so you rebuilt and you realize that you're fragile and that you know you're pushing through but that's not necessarily spiritual just saying like i'm gonna it helps and but i'm saying it helps and you think differently and also i'm a

father you know there's there's you think outside of yourself right okay so you're saying that like you know i i had this like i had this scare i fought through it i recovered i'm grateful i have my family exactly my wife you know like i should be grateful every day right and would you not spending time with me and see me think that I'm a grateful guy? Yeah. Yeah. Well,

you wouldn't think I'm an arrogant, uh, like jerk, like self-involved jerk. And that's my point. No, that's my point. And for comics,

that's a different way of going. I think that like, I always found you to be a confident guy. Very confident. Like, I don't know, like if, if I'm, I, I necessarily, like, there's no reason you shouldn. Very confident. I don't know if I necessarily...

There's no reason you shouldn't be grateful. I mean, people look at your career. Right, right, right. You know, if anything, a bitter comic's going to go like, that lucky son of a bitch. Yeah, that's possible. I'm sure it's likely. It's possible.

But I don't think that way. Of course not. There's comics even now that I don't particularly get. Yeah. But I'm happy for them and I understand. It's rare that a comic comes along and it becomes successful where I'm thoroughly confused. But not confused. But I know also you have a respect for dues paid and things that are earned versus things.

But I don't hold that against the ones that don't pay their dues, whatever. It's only going to hurt them because they won't have the bay. They won't have anything to fall back on. But you know, I know for a fact, and I know for myself, that if you grow up a unique type of comic, then you're always up against the comics that have success because they're not unique necessarily of course and you got to live with that well i'm a guy who loves charlie parker and john coltrane and all that sort of stuff so that's what they went through right you know lots of artists go through

that you know and i always jumped on the jazz thing because it was easy to grab hold you know yeah um yeah so um so you get arrested i'll get arrested so here you know here's in a nutshell what happened crowded parking lot saturday afternoon a corner of the the cvs parking lot the corner of ventura and laurel canyon and it very narrow, and it's one way, like each lane. And suddenly, a big Mercedes S500 starts going the wrong way, right in front of me. And I'm like, I say out loud, what are you doing? My windows are closed. She can't hear.

It's a hot day. The air conditioning going, you know. And there's lines of people behind me. She points. She wants the space that I'm waiting for. Now, I have a natural, and the spaces are on an angle. So the only way that she could get in the space would be- For you to back up.

Not me. 20 of us to back up, and it would take her, without exaggeration, about five minutes to do the three-point turn. Yeah. Okay? Yeah. And I like to joke and say a half hour, but really five minutes, which is a long time. Inpoint turn. Yeah. Okay? Yeah. And I like to joke and say a half hour, but really five minutes, which is a long time.

In parking time. Yeah, yeah. So when I said it's not going to work, you know, I'm mouthing this to her. So when the space opens up, the person cannot back out and go because of her, so it pulls forward. You know, it can pull forward.

So I pull in. Right before I pull in, she starts blowing up her cheeks with her hands around, like, in other words, making fun of me for being fat. Go park, fatty. Really? Oh, most definitely. It was completely clear. Now, obviously that triggered something deep inside of me, you know, being made fun of

for being fat. I mean, that, I'm like, who are you? Why would, we're like, who are you? We're adults. Why would you do that? You know? And I kept on thinking, why would she do that? That's crazy.

I mean, over and over. Total righteous indignation. Okay? Like, not only was she in the wrong way, but now she was making fun of you in a personal way. Yes. Yeah. So when I got out of my car she's still there all the cars are parking at her I go up to her

window and punch with the side of my arm and I'm glad I told the stroke thing ahead of time I lost a lot of strength in my right arm I still lift weights and stuff but I when I had my stroke my right arm is what suffered so I hit her window to say at the same time going going, what's wrong with you? Her window cracked. Okay. Well, I stepped back because I couldn't believe it. It was a slow crack too.

And I stepped back and she gets out of the car and I say, I'm so sorry. I did not intend for that to happen. You must have hit it pretty hard. Oh, I'm sure i did yeah harder than i thought righteous indignation yeah harder than i even knew rage yes i would say rage but not because i wanted to do that break her window right i wanted to get her attention you could have used a an implement yeah or something you know i never would want to do that i could by the way i didn't know i had the strength to do that. Now you know. Now I guess I do.

And so she got out, and I said, I'm so sorry, but I did like a Larry David thing. I said to her, but why would you make fun of me for being fat? Yeah. And she says, because you are fat, and you have a small penis. And she begins to do a dance puffing up her cheeks the way she was. Did she do a small dick dance way she was she doing small dick dance too she did a small dick dance too now i backed up even more i was freaked out and so control yourself no i was completely calm i was scared because she was acting nutty she was acting nutty

yeah and law man there's a lot of pieces to this and whatever. Nothing more of what I did, because at this point, I'm done doing what I've done. Got a broken window. Did it shatter? No, it didn't shatter. It just cracked right down the middle. So I'm staying away from her. I am being calm.

I'm giving my information to her friend, saying I'll pay for it. All she's doing is call the police. And I say to her calmly, I am not coming after you. I've given my driver's license. Her friend took a picture of my driver's license with her phone. You know, we're at that stage. Well, the cops come and I'm very calm. I tell them what happened.

They tell me they have to arrest me because it's a Mercedes S500 and it's felony vandalism. If it was a Toyota Corolla, they wouldn't have to arrest me because they have to arrest me because of the value. Not because of the action. Not because of the action. It's felony vandalism. Vandalism, you don't have to do anything violent to vandalize something. Right. There was nothing like attempted anything

right that vandalism uh-huh i go to jail in jail none of the cops know who i am every prisoner does and they're all excited and freaked out that i'm what are you doing here man and they're in there for some serious shit it's just uh the la county right this was uh the one van van eyes oh all right okay so i get out i was in there for like 12 hours and i get out did you have sex with anybody inside two or three young people okay not too young of age right i checked yeah okay because i know you kind of have to do that why did i I say that flippant? It wasn't even funny. That's all right. It wasn't.

Okay. I didn't have sex with anybody. You were improvising. Yeah, but that was just. It happens. I'm going to blame the premise. I'm going to blame the premise. It was a bad premise. Hacky.

Hacky. It was prison sex. All right. So they sneak me out the back when I leave because TMZ's there. Yeah. I go home. They drop the charges, all that sort of stuff. But

the city wants to meet with me to make sure this is the key part. The city wants to meet with me to make sure that I'm not like some crazed knucklehead. That this is going to be a repeated thing. But the charges have been dropped. My lawyer says, you need to go to anger management.

I'm like, why? He goes goes because if we say you've gone five times to anger management to the city that'll really show that so i went to anger management and i learned at anger management i don't have an anger problem i have an ego problem huh and then all i did what wanted to do was stop my ego and And that's all I focused on for like the past year. How'd you learn that? What do you mean? Well, that was a fallacy too. Because there is no stopping.

I learned you can't stop your ego. No, but I mean, but like, had you had anger issues before? No. No, I'm not real. I mean, like, I've gotten angry as people get angry, but I've never had an anger problem. But so how do you differentiate? Well, you're sitting there in anger management and you realize this thing.

How do you realize that? Because if you have an anger problem, your impulse in any situation is to go to anger. Me, I'll feel a feeling or eat a sandwich instead of feeling a feeling. No, for me, it was about my ego, my ego of being called fat. That's what it affected. My righteous indignation was all about, why would she call me fat?

She doesn't know that I've worked so hard not to be that fat and all that, but it was ego. And then I thought, as I studied this, I thought nothing good comes, confident, supremely good things happen. Being kind and humble, even though you're confident, is fantastic. But ego screws up everything.

Orders of shows. There's nothing good that comes from ego. So I set about eliminating ego. And this happened to me at 51, not 52. So it was a year and a half ago. So I set about eliminating ego and this happened to me at 51 not 52 so it was a year and a half ago so i said about eliminating ego but then i learned because you've examined everything there is no eliminating ego what you have to do is recognize it and say enough with that that's not going to do anybody any good well the the spiritual path is to get egoless to some degree. Well, to, yes, but I've learned so far in my journey that you can't eliminate the ego. You can only recognize it and see it for the bullshit that it is, and then it goes away.

Try to act differently. Try to be real. It's not trying to be differently. You accept it, you see it, and then you make the choices that you make. Right. But sometimes you're too late and you have to say, like, oh, that was a bad choice. Yes, you have to be forgiving of yourself. But it's almost like when people say, how do you go up on stage? Aren't you scared? Well, I went through, when I got sick with my heart, I went through a period of stage fright, which I also worked through. That's the

only way you can do it, is work through it. But I also learned about that is if you've got stage fright or anxiety, you have to go, hi, stage fright. Hi, anxiety. I see you're here. And you can't say, don't feel this way. Don't feel this way. You have to see them, accept it, and make your choices. And it works for me.

So in Chicago, before you started doing stand-up, you did Second City? No, I was doing Second City and stand-up at the same time. You started both at the same time? No, I'd been doing stand-up before I started Second City. Now, how long were you at Second City? Over the late 80s. But you were in the troop? I was in every troop, and I was fired from troupe. And I was fired from every troupe.

And I quit every troupe. I would be up and down. Why did you get fired? For the same reason that you and I would have trouble getting a spot at the comedy cellar. When you're... You know what it was? Audiences love me in improv. But my peers didn't respect me.

And then in stand-up, my peers respected me, but audiences were confused by me. Why didn't your peers respect you in improv? Now I look back, and I think a lot of it had to do with jealousy. Yeah? Because I've seen it with other people, yes. I would say that one was more jealousy,

and I wouldn't say the audiences in stand-up who didn't like me were jealous. I just didn't, I didn't figure't figure it i hadn't figured it out but i knew from my time at second city when i went out that i had an inherent likability in the group setting that you could point to me and go there's the funny one yeah you know the other six people on stage with me or five people maybe one other might be funny and one might be pretty funny. And then the other one's three or four, not funny at all. Right. That's normal.

Right. Okay. And so I would walk out in that situation and the audience immediately would go, we like him. He's funny. No matter what my skill was. It's almost like in standup, a hack who's really comfortable and a funny person. And big guys too. What's that? Big guys. Big audiences tend. And big guys, too. What's that?

Big guys. Big audiences tend to like big guys, yeah. Yeah. So when you were in Chicago, when did you live with Conan? I lived with Conan sometime in the late 80s. Bob Odenkirk said to me, you know, there's a writer's strike, and a friend of mine's moving here to chicago from la or something but anyhow he goes his name's conan which i laughed at and then he moved in

and we um he was probably one of the he was one of the one of the two or three funniest people i'd ever spent time around i would wake him up at four in the morning to have him do funny things i'm not making him like i'd come home and he'd be sleeping and I'd go, do that George Takei in this scenario thing. And then we did like a fake talk show in the living room where he was actually the host and I was his guest. I either played Adam West or myself and he was generally George Takei. It was during that period where Fox was looking, before Arsenio, after Joan Rivers, and they were looking for someone. Yeah.

So we did our fake one in the living room where I was always the guest. Right. He was always the host. He was frustrated by me as the guest. Little did we know, little did we know that he would go on to be a talk show host. Right. And how long did you live with him? We lived together less than a year.

Yeah. Yeah. He was over there. Was he only in chicago for that amount of time yeah yeah when he left it wasn't like i have to get out of here and then how'd you get to florida well i was my family moved to florida south florida when i was in chicago when i was a kid i was 12 and then i started comedy in south florida at 20 moved back to chicago at 22 to do second where. Where did you start in South Florida?

The comic strip. The same one from New York. Yeah, I remember that. And I started there with Brian Regan. That was my other contemporary I started with. And Dennis? Dennis didn't start down there. Oh.

No, he started in New York after that. So you were seeing all the New York guys coming through there? Meeting all of them. Seinfeld, I mean, everybody. Dom Herrera was one of the headliners. They had three headliners getting $600 a piece, each doing 40 minutes. He was one of the headliners

my very first night going on stage, which was June 12th, 1982, or June 14th, 82, I believe. Really? Yeah. Wow. So now let's talk about our pitch. You want to go pitch?

I'm sorry. By the way, I look on that fondly. No, I do too. I'm just trying to remember exactly how we came together. Because I know I was not in a good place and I was needed to pitch something. And I don't remember. Was it an outside person who asked us? Did you approach me?

I don't remember. I don't remember what it was. I think I might have thought of you, but you had that office in that... In the Asahi Bureau Building, which is now the Samsung Building. I'm no longer there, but I had my office there

through a lot of really cool... I must have been looking to pair up with a writer. Yeah. I don't think I had a deal. Remember, that was also the time where Larry and Jerry had done it. You know, there was, like, a history of that. Right, but I don't think I had a deal.

No, you didn't have a deal. Yeah. I didn't have a deal either. And then we got together. We come up with this, what was it, a cop show? It was everything I ever think of is generally, except for Curb, is pretty much a cop show in some way. You were, actually, I was a cop. You were an investigative journalist right

and it was you and i figuring out crimes right i mean that's really what it was and then i know what you're going to bring up we always we had we had a yes we do and it's a word i still use i i say it all the time i think it's a funny word and that was grandma was our safe our deep throat guy i no no it was our safety word and then when we were writing i said why not make your actual grandma our informant right that's how it started for the for the informant and you're like why why not have it be your actual grandma like it makes no sense and you're like no it's great it great. It's great. I still, by the way, I stand behind it. And by the way, I stand behind that show. We pitched it. Yeah.

To deaf ears. Yes, we pitched it a couple times, if I'm not mistaken. Yes, nobody was interested. I'm not kidding you. I thought it was a great show. When it was over, I wasn't like, oh, that's, I thought that would have been a funny show. Yeah.

It would have been a funny show. Yeah, sure. Yeah, no, very much so. And it was before Precurb-curb yeah for sure so now what what's the big plan you made another movie you made uh someone you cheese with then you made another movie yeah dealing with idiots that didn't do as well it was an improvised movie i shot it in 12 days yeah who was in that um nia vardalos jamie girtz, Richard Kind, Fred Willard. People can see that? Yeah, it's on Netflix and iTunes and all that.

Who else? Well, what's his name? He stars in Justified. Timothy Olyphant is in it. He plays my father. I know that sounds weird, but they're flashbacks. Not flashbacks. They're dreams I have.

And what's your, are you working on another movie? I'm doing two things right now. Next summer, I'll either be doing... I don't want to talk about it, but I'll be doing a stand-up special. Do you need help with that? Well, maybe my sets, but I'm doing something that's never been done before.

And when I say that, it's not even close to anything that's ever been done before. And when I say that, it's not even like close to anything that's ever been done before because specials have become anything but. So you're going to do your special on a plane or something? Nope. It's not where I'm doing it and it's not how I'm doing the standup.

I'm not reinventing that. I'm reinventing the presentation and it'll be done in a way that's never been done and are you gonna do it live like door-to-door like when people were no by the way what if i told you there's even nothing clever about it i hate cleverness runs cleverness you're done within two minutes yeah that's clever done yeah um this is gonna stick It's going to be something that people are going to say, why didn't I think of that? And I hope it works. I hope you don't wait too long.

Well, no, it doesn't. It's not. By the way, it's truly. It's so simple. It's right under our noses. It is. But it uses my particular talents. And all right.

So that's happening. And then a movie. I'm making a movie, another improvised movie. And one of them will be this summer because after this month, I'm stopping stand-up until I'm done with the Goldbergs. I can't do both. I don't like being mediocre.

Are you going to stand-up tonight? Tonight. Tonight, I have my book club at Book Soup. We've read Lolita. Oh, yeah, you finished it. By Nabokov. And you just do a book club for fun actually to be honest with you i've been doing it to help book soup from the standpoint of

i don't care if if no one shows up for my book club like the actual book club as long as they sell like 50 books which they seem to do god support the independent so i'm supporting book soup by doing this you know like 15 people show up and we discuss the book there's probably two or three that are there to ask me questions about curb your enthusiasm how did your book do my book book yeah what was it called again uh my footprint and then uh uh curbing it it's the the paperbacks they they insisted when they put out the paperback that they wanted curb in the title. So I thought of the least offensive, which was curbing it.

And it was about your weight? It was about, it was two things. One, part of it is really good and part of it is boring. It's about me trying to lose weight and go green while I made the Seinfeld season of Curb Your Enthusiasm. And the stuff about Curb Your Enthusiasm and me trying to lose weight is really good. The stuff going green, which is a smaller part of the book, at least for me personally, I regret it. Some of it's good, but I just regret it. Do you struggle with the food thing every day?

Every day. I'm an addict, man. Yeah. That's how I approach it. I'm an addict. And I even go to AA meetings sometimes because they're so- Oh, see, here's the problem with OA. OA is, a lot of people at OA are very casual.

They haven't hit bottom, man. Whereas you go to an AA meeting, these are ones that I know people in them will go to them. Nobody there is not taking it seriously. So, like, what was your worst night eating? Oh, eating until I couldn't stop throwing up. Really? Yeah, not making myself throw up.

No, which is literally you can't. You know, eating, I mean, eating a box of Little Debbie cakes and the same night having a half gallon of ice cream and maybe a bowl of Captain Crunch and three or four Pop-Tarts. Just at home. At home, I used to always, I put this in I Want Someone to Eat Cheese With, I used to go to the 7-Eleven by Wrigley Field, buy a bunch of crap, and sit on the hood of my car by the left field wall and just down it. And then I'd go off to... No joy. No joy.

And the feelings they were stuffing down, they were stuffed down temporarily, and then of course you feel worse. What was most of the feelings? See, this is the thing. So I made this movie I Want Someone to Eat Cheese With, and people who saw it early on when it was still a rough cut, But see this is the thing okay, so I made this movie. I want someone to eat cheese with and People who saw it early on when it was still rough cut I Would show good things happening to me and then eating and they couldn't associate with that I wish I kept it in because it's any feeling man. It's not it's not bad feeling going or make it go away

It's just it's just it's any feeling. Right. Anything you feel you want to shove down. And then discovering later on codependency and all that stuff. Man, I'm an addict. And that's...

You don't come from addicts? Not, not to my knowledge. So the codependency thing, how does that reveal itself? It's sort of weird because that's what you do professionally.

I know it is. I know. But, but you know. You're an enabler? I help. I look to help people. I'm always wanting to help you.

You help me all the time. I know. As a friend and stuff. But I think that also that's part of my codependency. It makes me feel better. Not that when you help other people you shouldn't feel better. But to do it for that reason as opposed to do it for real, genuine... Right, well, it's like when you wait

to be defined by what somebody texts you back. Yeah. I've always said I'm too sensitive to text. Yeah. I'm getting better at it now because I'm learning through my codependence. It's hard because they can be kind of ambiguous. That's true, too.

Right. What does that mean? What does that mean? Of course. Yeah. Or silence, which is worse. When I texted texted fuck you it meant i was being nice if you text me fuck you i would laugh even if it came out of nowhere i

would just laugh well i i love you buddy i know you do and i love you too i love you i love you you're the greatest so we're um we're good oh we're great this was but see i had a ball doing this yes this by the way this was everything i dreamed it would be it is it was we did all right we did great this was fantastic and this is what by the way which is uh the name of my show um what the reason people love this show and I outside of you as anything as human beings in this world that we live in now yeah we get so little in the world of entertainment in the world of things that are electronically and digitally brought to you that are really human and to the point and real yeah and this show is

completely grounded and real and human. It's people being human beings. And what's more joyful than that? No matter how dark you get, it is completely and utterly joyful. And I'm going to tell you this too. The number of people who tell me that they love your show. Yeah. My gosh.

Good. So many. People love your show. Nobody has ever said, that show is okay right to a man to a woman everyone that talks about it loves it so there you go yeah thank you sure and look at you saying thank you i love that that is great just saying thank you not throwing some other bullshit in i love that i'm not i'm not gonna throw any other bullshit in. I love that. I'm not going to throw any other bullshit in. I appreciate that, man.

I love that. Thanks, buddy. Sure. Thank you. Bye. All right. That was a nice conversation with Jeff. I enjoyed his company.

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