WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 571 - Jimmy Dore

Episode Date: January 25, 2015

Jimmy Dore was one of the early adopters of the comedy podcast. Marc and Jimmy discuss their podcast origins, Jimmy's massive Irish family, Bill Hicks, George Carlin, and the perils and rewards of doing political comedy. Plus, Marc gives Nick DiPaolo a call to talk about his new special, Another Senseless Killing. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5 p.m. in Rock City at torontorock.com. Lock the gates! of me welcome to the show i am mark maron this is wtf i'm glad you're here if you're running how are you keep it going do it keep going yeah sweat it out today on the show jimmy door the comedian comedy and everything else you can get his um book he's got a book uh your country is just not that into you it's available right now wherever you get books. I'll talk to Jimmy in a second. Jimmy was one of those guys, man. Before I really started doing the podcast, or maybe right at the beginning,

I went to his home, and he had me on his podcast, and I was able to see that that's how it went. That's how it goes. That was back in the day when we were all starting out, though. Jimmy was doing his a little longer than anybody else. He used to do it originally with Todd Glass, comedy and everything else. And now he does it with his wife. Yeah, he was one of the guys that inspired me to do it.

Gave me my first break on a podcast. Him and Jesse Thorne and Keith and the Girl. They were the ones that had me on and made me realize that, wow, I can do it. I can do it right in my house. I've always wanted to do it right in my house. So this is a little tip of the hat for Jimmy Dore, finally. I didn't have him on for a while. I had him scheduled, and then I didn't have him on.

I thought there was tension between us, and it turns out there really isn't. He's just a cranky guy. I'm just a cranky guy. And that's the way cranky guys are. They wander around thinking other cranky guys are mad at them when really they're just mad. Sensitive. Sensitive fellas we are. I went and saw Selma last night because I thought it was my responsibility as an American and as a man and as a white person to go see it.

I wanted to see it. Of course, I like movies. I like Hollywood movies at times. I like big movies. I like good acting. I like a good story. I like a historical biopic occasionally. I enjoyed that James Brown movie.

The last half hour of that movie is bizarre. I thought Selma was good, and I thought that the director's sort of focus on King as a man, as a human man, was great. The story of racist politics and racism in the South and the tensions and violence from that period, I mean, a lot of times I think people need to be lot of times, I think people need to be reminded of that. I know I need to be reminded of that. Sometimes movies are just provocative.

And embarrassingly, if I could share my subconscious with you. Embarrassingly, I dreamed last night after I saw Selma that I had a really horrible set in the South, that I was bombing on stage in the South, and it went on for a selfish man, but I thought it sort of captured the inherent white guilt and also the self-centeredness of how I would take a story like that. But it was devastating. It's a devastating movie, and it's surprising. I believe that the reality of it was probably much worse, obviously, than even what the movie could capture. And that was this country, and that was this country you know 50 years ago in most of our lifetimes in my lifetime in my lifetime the year ago was a few months ago in this country yeah it's fucking astounding man still there i um i you know what i i want to talk to uh my buddy nick depolo in just a minute he's got a special out and me and nick go way back

uh i did one of my first gigs opening for nick depPaolo at Captain Nick's in Agunquit, Maine. Yeah. I was probably 22 years old. Nick's not really that much older than me, maybe a year. But Nick's got a new special out and I wanted to give him a call. So listen up. Me and Nick DiPaolo started out together. so listen up me and Nick DiPaolo started out together

I gotta get him on here for an hour but he lives in he lives outside of New York a little upstate New York I gotta get him on but right now his special Another Sense Was Killing is now available at

his website at nickdip.com you can get it there for eight bucks let's call nick let me call him hello nick marcus aurelius how are you buddy what are you doing can you hear me all right yeah pretty good yeah so what you have wait what out in the country in a bunker uh not yet i'm building the bunker i got the machine guns are on the way uh canned peaches and spam uh i live in westchester i'm in the woods i'm like 40 miles north of the city well that's nice 40 miles from the comedy cellar mark door to door oh god that's a long haul at night, huh?

It's horrible. Yeah. I love my house. I love my privacy, but holy shit. So what happened? So last week, you and I are okay, right? Of course. How many people do you...

How many times have you used that sentence when you talk to people? Probably 10 times a week. Well, it used to be more. I thought I had cleared everything up with everybody over 500 episodes i thought first of all i want to thank you for having me you know on the show i mean i know you have like mel brooks and uh you know duane the rock johnson and butch patrick and dorothy hamill oh yeah all those guys me and the. He's here now. He stayed over last night because he had to do an interview this morning.

It was so funny because I got an email from some guy out of nowhere through my website. It said, so you're an asshole, and Greg Fitzsimmons and Nick DiPaolo think you're an asshole. And I wrote back. I said, well, that's a couple of assholes calling an asshole an asshole. So you must be an asshole for believing that. I never called you an asshole. I don't care. I don't care. I never called you an asshole.

I just, on my podcast, I talked about when we were up at Montreal, we had just done, you know, Opie and Jimmy Norton show or whatever. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Remember me, you were telling like Billy Burr and eight other comics? Yeah, it was crazy. And then somebody said something about me, and you go, who, DiPaolo? He's irrelevant. Oh, yeah. Remember me, you would tell, and like Billy Burr and eight other comics. Yeah, it was crazy. And then somebody said something about me, and you go, who, DiPaolo? He's irrelevant. Oh, man.

And I went, that motherless fuck. Yeah, I had it coming. I had it coming. What is this special, dude? When did it come out? January 2nd. It's on, you go to nickdip.com. It's called Another Senseless Killing.

It's like in the top 50 in pre-orders right now on iTunes, and it's been selling really well on my website, nickdip.com. It's $8. Some guy paid, you can pay as much as you want. Some guy paid $208 for it last week. You're relevant to that guy. Yeah, I ruled you out immediately. Yeah.

Yeah, so, no, it's selling pretty well and i shot it at acne in uh in minneapolis so it's the best that's the best bird's eye view it's an intimate it's it's you know the energy's there and it's a little dirtier than even i like to work but you know oh yeah well it's uh well acne is a great club oh it's my favorite in the country that that lewis lee have you ever fucking met a fairer guy than i mean i walk out of it i shot that you know i taped two shows like on a tuesday night and i walked out there walked out of it like a lot of money in my pocket on top of it no he's a good guy aside from the fact that he banned me from his club for 12 years but you know that i guess in his mind there was fairness there somehow well you said he was irrelevant to the comedy scene didn't you no i think i took one of his waitresses back to the condo and that wait a minute that's a true

story yeah yes i remember you telling somebody that yeah yeah no i mean i don't know what the hell i did but he was a little weird like that but you know we made up everything's all right he was banging her i don't know i just i think sometimes they just don't want what the hell I did, but he was a little weird like that. But, you know, we made up. Everything's all right. Maybe he was banging her. I don't know. I think sometimes they just don't want, you know, the comic animal interacting with their pristine staff of virgins and princesses. Yeah, exactly. Like most of them are chlamydia-making machines. Oh, well, I'm not going to say that.

No, I am. You don't have to say it. I just did. And I have the prescriptions to prove it. You've got the record of prescriptions. Well, the special is called Another Sensuous Killing. How long is it? Was it a long set?

It's an hour. It's like 58 minutes. It was like an hour and 15 when I did it, but I chopped out some. I showed it to Louie, and I had a whole chunk of the Food Network that he told me to take out. He actually told me that. I went to his house in New York the last time I was there, and we were just hanging out. Well, he said because it's taking up too much time, right? And it's not necessarily going to stay relevant.

I mean, the Food Network, I love it, first of all. I cook. I watch it all the time. It's like ESPN to me, I love it, first of all. I cook. I watch it all the time. It's like ESPN to me. I love it, too. And people, you know, people are, I mean, that's a really popular thing in our culture. But it was kind of, it's funny, Mark. He's got good instincts.

Because when I put it in there originally, the material, I'm like, did I just sort of force that in there? Or I kind of questioned it myself. So as soon as he said it, I was like, yeah, he's probably right. I was kind of more mean. I was just ripping on the personalities. Oh, and you love it. So he probably did you a favor because isn't that interesting that you love the Food Network?

You just said to me, it sounded like you build your life around this fucking network and you take a dump on the fucking personalities. You know, you're like a good shrink. That's true. I'm like you. Self-destruct. I attack the shit I love.

It's weird, right? God forbid we let anybody love us, right? I was making fun of Barefoot Contessa. I said she had the hands and forearms of Alan Hale or some shit. You're sitting there with an apron cooking with her. Doing one of her recipes. I'm making her lemon squares and I'm going, there's too much butter in this.

What the fuck? That's fat fuck. Yeah. I love to cook, man. I've been, like, I was away from it for a while and now I started doing it again. I love it. It's therapeutic.

Very. My problem is, like, I can spend hours making something that I can eat in three minutes. Well, that's right. That kind of bothers me. And then there lies the problem. I've been trying to lose the same 18 pounds. But, yeah, you get older.

I can't go out in the yard and run around and play football anymore. I get my hips and shoulders of a 90-year-old man, and you have to pick up other shit. It's hard. Like, I'm trying to lose a little weight now because I quit nicotine, and I feel like my whole metabolism changed. And I used to be able to knock off, like, you know, 10 pounds in a month or so, but now it's a little harder. I've never seen you really.

Maybe the first time I met you when we did, I think you were fresh out of rehab when we did Captain Brian's or whatever. Okay, that's right. I opened for you one of my first paid gigs at Captain Nick's in Agunquit, Maine. Yes, you were very nervous because you hadn't been on stage in like a few years and you only had to do like 15 minutes

and you were shitting your pants. Yeah, yeah. And I didn't really know of you at that point, but then when I saw him, I'm like, oh, this guy's a veteran. He knows what the fuck he's doing. That was a mess. I was probably a little doughy, you know, a little doughy. I'm trying to think when the hell that was. It must have been like right after That was a mess. I was probably a little doughy, you know, a little doughy. I'm trying to think when the hell that was. It must have been like

right after I won the riots. It was like 88, 89. Yeah, still had a little rehab weight on me. Yeah. You looked, yeah, but every time I see you, you're in shape.

Yeah. You look like, and like I said, you had the Frank Zappa goatee going. That's what I got going now. Yeah, everything's going now. You look good. You look good. I even said it to my wife. I go, this man looks Frank Zappa goatee going. That's what I got going now. Yeah, everything's going now. You look good. You look good.

I even said it to my wife. I go, Maren looks like you should be famous. Thank God. It's about time. He works on his personality. I mean, he'll go through the roof. Yeah, I know. I got that one problem, my personality.

What's your podcast called? Where's your podcast at? My podcast is at Riotcast.com. It's called the Nick DiPaolo Podcast. How's that doing? I wasn't originally going to call it. I wanted to call it... Buck Mark Marin?

Wartime Councilieri. Oh, nice. I figured it would have been too hard to find on the internet. But yeah, it's nickdipaolopodcast at riotcast.com. It's going okay? I freaking love doing it, man. And you're a pioneer, so I thank you for plowing the way. Yeah.

Are people enjoying it? They're loving it. It's, like I said, I check on it every couple days in the rankings. I know it doesn't really tell you that much. Right. It's always up there,

so I've only been doing it about a year, Mark. That's great, man. I'm happy, man. You sound good. You sound good to me. I'm happy to hear that. That's just the coffee. Yeah, all right. Well, I'm glad I caught. I'm happy, man. You sound good. You sound good to me. I'm happy to hear that. Oh, that's just the coffee. Yeah, all right.

Well, I'm glad I caught you at a good time there. And trust me, when I went out to L.A. last week, naturally you were the first show that came to mind. But honestly, I go, well, he thinks I'm fucking irrelevant. I'm not going to go on a show. That's not true. If you would have given me a little notice, we could have sat down for an hour. Next time you're out here, let's just do an hour.

I would frigging love that, man. No, absolutely. I did all the other heavy hitters, and I didn't get you and Burr, so I want to get you guys next time. Just give me a little warning. I know. I called you. My plane was leaving in like an hour and a half.

I'm like, yeah, yeah. You want to meet me at the airport with your tape recorder? All right, buddy. Well, I love you, man. I wish you the best of luck with the special. It sounds great. I'm going to go get it. Thanks, Mark.

I appreciate it. Take it easy, buddy. I'll see you later. All right. That was my old buddy, Nick. Go check out his special, Another Sense Was Killing. It's $8 at nickdip.com. So, crisis averted.

I'm trying to do things differently, folks. I'm trying to do things differently, folks. I'm trying to do things differently. I'm trying to... I'm dating somebody and I'm trying not to be a dick. And I felt a dick fit coming over me last night. I don't know if people can relate to this. I don't know if women can relate to it. It's got to be both sides. Both sexes have to feel this. So where I don't know how emotionally available I've ever been in any of my relationships. I know I've been enmeshed with

people. I know it's been crazy. I know I engage in drama, but you know, how, you know, how much have I opened my heart? how much does anybody really open their heart and just be comfortable being open-hearted and trusting somebody else and letting them in like that i don't know that i've ever done it successfully or for real for very long like generally i get it open then i'm like oh god and i snap it shut sometimes i take someone's hand off you know it's dangerous Might lose a hand in my heart. But last night we went out, we saw Selma, and then we started talking after the movie.

And then, you know, she said something that kind of, I kind of stuck in my craw a little bit, but I didn't really say anything about it because I thought it was petty. It was just bullshit. It was about nothing. It was about, you know, director's job or a DP's job job who did what who was responsible for what in particular whatever doesn't matter all right but she was wrong but it doesn't matter i believe she was wrong but i didn't need to bring

that up it wasn't you know why it caused that kind of trouble but it's sort of stuck in my craw and then you know everything else was just filtering through that little thing you know got stuck in the got stuck in my brain engine. So now all the information was coming in, everything, every interaction, everything that was coming in during our interaction was sort of running past that thing that was just stuck there. It just, you know, stuck.

And it was making everything shitty. And by the time I got home, I was like, you know, I was kind of like, I wanted to fucking fight, man. I just, and I knew it was, it's just something it turned and I just wanted to fight. And I just sat there and she's like, what? And I'm like, well, all right, what happens now? What are we doing? Well, she's like, well, let's just relax and hang out, you know, and enjoy each other's company.

I'm like, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if that's going to happen. And it was just stuck. And I told and I didn't and then she said something and I snapped at her a little bit she goes you just want to fight and I'm like yes I do I do just want to fight and I've had entire relationships like that that go on for years where I'm like this where I just want to fight and I don't want to fight

but I don't know how I'm going to get through this. I need to get through this feeling right now. It's so fucking childish if you have this thing because you kind of just want to cry or just throw a little tantrum over bullshit. Just fucking grow the fuck up. I don't know how people have relationships and just keep that kind of thing in them,

just that festering resentment on both sides. It just sort of never goes away. And that's the baseline. It's just sort of, you know, just keep your feelings to yourself, you know, man up or whatever. But like I just sat there and I told her what was going on. I didn't tell her why. I just said I got to wait till this passes. I assume it'll pass.

And then like it started to, you know, I just let it, you know, I just kind of talked it out, played a little guitar, had something to eat, had a lot to eat, shoved a lot of shit, just stuffed a lot of cereal over my feelings and some yogurt, some berries, which is relatively healthy for stuffing feelings. All I know is I didn't fight. And I've been in relationships where we're fighting and just tearing shit down was basically foreplay. But all I know is that we got into bed. We did have sex. That happened. I think there was an argument to be made that we should have done that right away, maybe right when we got home.

There was an argument to be made for that. But something just was not there. But I'm not going to say that the tension didn't make it better. I'm not going to say that. Because I would be lying. But I do know that it was not a destructive situation. Now let's talk to my old friend, Jimmy Dore. As I said before, you can get his book book. Your country is just not that into you. Uh, it's available wherever you

get books and, uh, and, uh, we get through the crankiness, him and I, we do it. We get through it. We get past it. We get into the real. It's winter and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So, no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs, mozzarella balls, and arancini balls? Yes, we deliver those. Moose? No. But moose head? Yes.

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A new original series streaming February 27th exclusively on Disney+. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. Thing. You can see there was work being done on this workbench at some time. There were tools used, things happening. Somebody was grinding down a thing. Yeah, a lot of grinding, some pounding,

maybe some valve repair. Was there a vice anywhere hooked up to that? I think the vice was over here somewhere because there's some padding here. I don't know. I haven't put it all together. I'm not a detective, Jimmy. Nor am I. You know, I'm not a forensic. I don't do forensics on arcane mechanical platforms. I'm not a detective, but I do do some forensics. You do? You do some cultural forensics. Yeah. Deconstructing. This is correct.

That's right. Sorting through it. That is heavy duty, the way you got into that. Hell yeah, man. You're a cultural forensic examiner. Oh, that's right. Yes, I know. I'm the Quincy of culture. That's right. Thank God someone's doing it, because no one understands how it died. Man, we're operating on all cylinders already.

Was it ever really there, people say? Did we ever really have culture? I don't know. I think that there's this idea that we had civilization and that, yeah, there was culture. I think at different points, you know, culture has been higher and lower. I think we're at a low point. We certainly are at a low point. We are certainly at a low point.

It doesn't seem like the standards are holding, whatever they might have been. You're telling me you think the housewives of New Jersey does not reflect well on our culture? No, I don't think so. I think there's just too many outlets, Jimmy. There's too many outlets. Before, it was just three stations. Everybody was on the same page. Norman Mailer would appear on The Tonight Show.

Yes. Remember those days? Kinda. Me too. As a kid, I would fall asleep waiting for the comedian to come on. Right. But they would always have some author on who I couldn't give a shit about. Now, as a grown-up, I'd love to see those guys again.

Yeah, they're hard to see. You gotta go find them somewhere. Nobody talks anymore, Mark. That's why podcasts are so big that's right i think they do talk but just not on the outlets we're familiar with necessarily and the few guys that do that type of talking might not be our cup of tea because there's only one it's like either you're gonna watch charlie rose or you're not you know i don't seem to make time for him i don't even make time for bill moyers and every time i watch i, I'm like, God, that's mind-blowing. You know why?

Because I think it's always a little depressing. It hurts. It does. You're better off just kind of coming up with your one-liners about the fall of Rome as opposed to having it all explained thoroughly. And you realize, not only am I right, but it was much worse than I thought it was. That's the worst part about watching guys who actually do the work yes I'd rather not know I'd rather I'd rather just think this is a you know like a heat wave it's not really climate change happening right now 120 degrees right in September in Los Angeles

oh I thought you were meant you were using that as a as a as a metaphor for the end of everything oh like every day like I drive around and there's these moments where I'm like, it's not coming back. Whatever it used to be, whenever there was some sort of value system in place, that shit is over. Because of the, you know, internet access

and just the ability for everybody to sort of kind of have no boundaries, it's become a completely predatory culture. And yeah, and the planet seems to be heating up. Definitely the planet seems to be heating up. Also people's, you know, bad behavior seems to be heating up. You know, people, and it's just hard to keep up with all the kind of meanness in society. For proof, just go to any YouTube youtube video click on the fourth commenter and the fourth commenter always mercilessly rips the third commenter and then and then the fifth commenter the newcomer tries to create like a

little uh common ground and for that the sixth commenter impugns his sexuality sure so that's this is what's happening that's commentary in the culture we live in and they're common and it's a cat video yeah yeah and everybody's opinion matters just as much as everybody else's opinion you know used to be a time you're right talk about cultures used to be a time when there were people whose opinions mattered more than other people's opinions right informed opinions used to think yeah informed yes exactly and now it's just a it's just it's just malignant punditry. Yeah, everywhere. Everybody's a talking head.

Why is this guy talking? Who is he? I don't know, but he seems confident. And you never get discredited anymore. Once you're a semi-famous person or you have a Q factor, you never go away anymore. People will always keep bringing you on. What I talk about in my new book is, you know, look at all the Iraq war people. Nobody's ever discredited. Or even, yeah, right.

And if they are discredited or they are taken to task, that news is not as interesting. How about Mike Barnicle? Now, he's a perfectly affable fellow. Boston, perfectly affable fellow. Columnist. Columnist, plagiarizer. And still has a show right there on MSNBC. Still has a, and he doesn't have his own show, but he's still a panelist.

Did he get a... Was it Carlin years ago that he plagiarized? He plagiarized Carlin and that wasn't the one that cost him his job. That was the tip of the iceberg. It cost him his job at the paper. Yeah, but he got promoted on television. But he's a working man

because he likes to give that appearance that he's a working man because he doesn't get his teeth fixed, even though he's a millionaire. Right. And his wife is the vice president of Bank of America. But he's the voice of the working man. She's the vice president of all Bank of America? She is an executive at Bank of America. So there's probably, I don't know, what are there, 15 vice presidents?

Yeah, but then it gets to the point, though, Jimmy, where you're like, all right, so that guy, is he the enemy? Is he an annoyance? Is he really the guy we got to rally to get taken off? No. I mean, we're the source. I disagree with rallying to get people to take it. That's always backfires, I think.

You know, the boycotts to get rid of people. Like, when they got rid of Glenn Beck, they're like, yay yay we got rid of glenn beck we're gonna replace him with five more yeah it's like a hydra you just cut the head off and then yes yes and five more appear exactly right not as bad as glenn beck but glenn beck went and found his own way somehow glenn beck yeah he got his people and now he still has probably half of them so i gotta say to you i apologize for taking so long to get you on the show because i i i owed you a debt of gratitude for having me on your show very early on when i like i think before i even started the podcast i think you were one of the guys i was like well what what do we do how do we do this well i remember when i first started

listening to your show i liked it a lot because I would, I liked the part where you talked and the interviews less. I mean, I liked all of it. Oh, yeah? But when you talked, which is the opposite of what most people say. That's true. Is it? I don't know.

Yeah. When you talk, because I would always learn, because you're so versed in self-help and, you know, all that stuff. My own method, but yeah. But I would have this problem with my wife. Yeah. Who you co-host your show with. So we, a podcast called Comedy and Everything Else, which we started with Todd Glass.

And then he left after episode 60. Right. And then we ended up doing about 180 total. Oh, you don't do it anymore? So it's in hiatus right now. We wanted to start doing live show with it, but I got really- Your wife's name is what? Stephanie.

Stephanie. Stephanie Zamorano. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Everybody loves her. So she always had a problem. So I would get upset about something. Yeah. And then, you know, like me, once I get upset about it and then it gets resolved, it's over.

It's out of me. It's over. It's out of you and into her. Well, that's what you said. You were talking about when you were married or whatever and you would tell your wife, hey, it's over. I'm over with it. She goes, goes yeah it's out of you and now it's in me yeah and i was like oh i didn't realize that was what exactly what happened with steph it would be in her now she'd be upset for a while it would take a while for it to get out of her yeah and i didn't really know

when you said that i was like wow really open and helped my marriage a lot i'm not kidding that's not blowing smoke up your ass i was like that really helped me i'm so glad and so i that's what i and i was glad to have you on the show i think i shared it with you then so even that little thing it's weird it can take it sometimes it is just a little thing that like those are the things that kind of make you think different yeah especially if they're easy yeah you know like that's very easy yeah because everything's so fucking complicated and you're like this has got to be deeper than this and you, well, why don't you just don't do that? Oh, all right.

I didn't realize that was an option. I can just stop doing that? I have choices in life over my behavior? But when did you start podcasting? So we were pretty early on. I think we might have started in 2008. Wow. Maybe.

Right. I can't remember. But then again, we weren't, I mean, you weren't necessarily the first, but the landscape when you started and also when I started was so small. So it was just a handful, right? Yeah. It was just a handful of people. Jimmy Pardo was the first one I remember. Yeah. And then I don't, maybe Adam Carolla and Kevin Smith. Yeah. Kevin Smith. Correct. Right. So then we got in right around then. Right. And Todd had a bigger vision for it than I did.

I thought it was just going to be us kind of talking and goofing off. I didn't realize what it could be. Right. Like, you've realized what it could be. Well, I mean, I just did what I landed on. You know, like, I don't know that I had any vision other than, you know, I can do whatever I want. And it sort of evolved into this thing where I need to talk to people. Yeah, yeah.

But you've been doing comedy how long? So I started my first open mic in 1989. Right. So I moved out to LA in 1995. From where? From Chicago. So you're a Chicago guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Born and raised in Chicago. Born and raised in Chicago. Chicago in the city? Yes, right in the city, right by Midway Airport. Really? Blue collar neighborhood, really blue collar, or as I like to describe it, racist. What neighborhood is that? It was Vidim Park, southwest side, the 23rd district.

Yeah. I don't know. It's interesting because I go to Chicago. I've not spent extensive amount of time there. Yeah. But there are certain cities in this country where you're like, oh, this is a real thing. Chicago's a real city. Yeah.

It's like Philly, Chicago, New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco, I think. Boston. Boston, definitely. Those are real cities. Those are the ones, right? Yeah, yeah. So you can walk around it still. They got a personality.

They have a personality. Exactly. They do have a personality. An identity. And Chicago, by the way, my neighborhood's a great neighborhood. I tease them about being racist because they were. It's a white, blue-collar neighborhood? Yes.

Like what, primarily Italian or Irish? So Irish, Italian, Polish. Uh-huh. Yeah. What are you? I'm Irish and Polish. Really? Yeah, but everybody always thought I was Italian.

I don't know why. You got brothers and sisters? Yeah, I come from 12 kids. So you're really Irish. And so that's kind of, yes, really. So that's where- 12 fucking kids, dude. That's, well, so I-

What number are you? Do you know? Yes. Can I tell you the joke I tell about it? Tell the joke. Is that I come from 12 kids and people say you learn a lot about life growing up in a big family, which is true. And I think the biggest thing I learned is I'm easily replaced.

Like I knew if I died, it wasn't going to put a big dent in their plans. Can't imagine my mom sitting around, oh no, Jimmy's dead. What am I going to do now with just the 11 of you? There's a head count every day. I think we're missing one. Yeah, I wish there was. There wasn't sometimes.

And then they would leave you behind on the camping trip. But that's not true. Usually when I talk to people from big families, the relationship with the parent is, there's always a different relationship, but they all seem to love the kids as much as the other one. Yeah, I felt favored, actually. Yeah.

Because I was the youngest. You were the youngest of 12? So do you have siblings that are 70? Yeah. So I have a brother who's at least 63. At least you don't even quite know? That's hilarious. They're very old.

Come on. I don't even remember my oldest brother living at home. He was like an uncle. I never remember living with him. So, yeah, really, it's really like, in fact, he had a kid who's older than me. So I have a nephew older than me, stuff like that. So it's wild. It fascinates me.

So you all lived in the same house, kind of? Or was there maybe, what, 80 of you there at the most? So there was probably, I think at any given there was i think the most we ever had was 10 but um but when i went to school my mom literally didn't know what to do with herself all day right because she's used to taking kids oh so now we're all in school and she went and adopted two more kids no she didn't yeah so we had 10 kids and she adopted two more, so then we had 12. One boy who was older than me, one year older than me, who could beat the shit out of me. Hey, thanks, that's what I need. Another guy who can beat the shit out of me in the house.

Now you wonder why I'm going to comedy. And then I had a little sister who I loved. It was great having a little sister, my little sister Dolores, fantastic. So what did your dad do? He was a cop and he was an honest cop, which sucked for me because, you know, we had to wear hand-me-downs and eat powdered milk. Nothing he could...

Wasn't taking anything under the table, huh? No, that's what I'm saying. Wish he would have. Was he like a beat cop? Was he like a regular cop or a detective? He was just a beat cop. Beat cop and that was it. Yeah.

A beat cop? He used to yeah a beat he used to drive a paddy wagon really yeah yeah and yep is he still around and yeah he's still alive yeah and he worked his other job was he would do masonry and then and then the the sons we would work with him in the summer doing masonry work which if you you know if you ever want to fuck up your relationship with your parents work with them yeah especially doing shitty grunt work like that ricks in the hot summer and the humid side it's great it's really good for your relationship but i can't understand so how many sisters you got how many sisters except there's seven boys five girls in my family and do you are you in touch with them you know what's funny is that we were we were

pretty close i used to enjoy my family's company a lot because my brothers are funny and my mom has a good sense of humor. My dad, no sense of humor whatsoever. Was he a hard ass? Yeah. Just really shut down. Yeah. Drinky?

Well, here's the thing. My grandpa was an alcoholic, so my dad was going to do him one better and he didn't drink at all, right? So that was my dad's attempt to do better. But my dad still had all that anger and rage you have an alcoholic so we never so you know we got to have all that yeah but we never got to experience any of the fun drunk times right yeah no relaxing just a constant current of varying degrees of rage exactly the way i describe it i say my dad had two emotions angry and not angry yet so oh my god so how the hell does he keep how did he manage 12 kids

he didn't manage it well he was he wasn't around much because he was working all the time and then he was home he was grumpy and hitting us he oh really there was some beatings going on all the time are you kidding poor we were poor poor people beat the shit out of each other everybody's hitting everybody they're hitting me at home. They're hitting me at school. I go to the park. We beat the fuck out of each other. Everybody's beating the fuck out of everyone you grow up poor. I don't know if people realize that.

Where else are you going to put the anger? Yeah, exactly. It's no justice. It's no justice. It's no justice. That explains your comedic disposition. Yes. The little guy.

There you go. The little guy's got to fight back. That's why I'm always punching upward. Yeah, yeah. Equally as futile as it was when you were a child. Yes, exactly. Exactly right. People appreciate your sentiment.

That's all I want. That's all I want. Hey, I appreciate that sentiment. Hey, you're fighting a good fight. We're going to go to our house now where it's comfortable. We're going to go turn on our corporate television. Exactly. Yeah.

Well, that's interesting. So you were getting it from all ends. What did he beat you with? Were there instruments involved? house now where it's comfortable we're gonna turn on our corporate television exactly yeah but uh well that's interesting so you were getting it from all ends what did he beat you with were there instruments involved no mostly mostly hands it was my dad was a big motherfucker oh yeah no belts no sticks didn't need it no didn't need it and was enough no my dad punched me one time so hard i pissed my pants oh that's horrible yeah horrible. Yeah, it wasn't fun. How old were you? The first time I was five, second time I was 16. So there was a 11-year gap between the pissing of the pants? Yeah. But did you go out? I mean, was it like, were you unconscious? The second time, yes. So he punched you? Yeah, right in the face. Oh my God. For what? I was drunk. I came home drunk and I was on the corner of my block and I was yelling.

Like I was being drunk, yelling. I don't know, maybe it was 1030 at night or something. Anybody in particular? No. I was there with a friend of mine, Jerry Snyder. We were both hammered. And I was like, ah, blah, blah, blah. You know, I was just kind of like spouting.

Yeah. And all of a sudden my friend Jerry Snyder goes, hey, shut up. Here comes a cop. Yeah. And I look at him, I go, that's no cop. That's my dad. Oh no. And my dad just Snyder goes, hey, shut up. Here comes a cop. And I look at him. I go, that's no cop. That's my dad. Oh, no.

And my dad just walks up and just fucking plows me. He just punched me right in the face. And that was it? But did you get in the car? And then he picks me up. And then he put me in a headlock. And he punched me all the way home. No way.

No way. Yes, Mark. Come on. I grew up blue comms. These are men. But no, that's child abuse. I agree. But that was commonplace.

You know, my next door neighbor was an alcoholic Marine, and he was constantly yelling. And so we thought we had it much better. Right. So we really, we were like. Yelling at who? His kids? Everybody. His wife, his kids, the paper man.

Vietnam Marine? Oh, I don't know. Must have. I don't know. Maybe. Who knows? But he was a big drinker. But at least he was like, I would see him every once in a while.

We'd have block parties and he would be giggly. I'm like, I wish my dad was like that once in a while. Give him a drink. One drink. Your dad never had one drink? One time I saw him have a, he had some champagne at my brother's and he got a little tipsy. One time. Did you know your grandfather, the drunk?

Yeah. Yeah. Was he a good guy? I didn't really know him. So I just wanted to go over there. And he died when I was in second grade yeah yeah was he a good guy i didn't really know him so i just want to go over there and he died when i was in second grade but was he like in the neighborhood was this everybody in the neighborhood your other grandparents your mother's folks where were they my mother's folks very it's all very secretive my mom won't tell me about our her family she goes oh the building burnt down with the records of my family and really and i was

like what so i was convinced for a long time my mom's mom was a prostitute because they all had funny names my mom's name is yvonne my aunt's name is aloma huh like and i'm like oh was she like is that a pimp giving names out or something you know but that's not it turns out that wasn't it but um did you find out what it was it was i think something those names came from operas or something but was it but why oh no i don't out what it was? It was, I think something, those names came from operas or something, but- But why? Oh no, I don't know what it was. But you were a smart guy. Secret, secret, secret. You never went and did the, is your mom still around? Yes.

Yeah. And now at this age, you don't sort of like, come on, let's just- When my grandmother died, my mom didn't even tell us. Wow. And you- And she went to the funeral and all that stuff, and I'm sure all my cousins went,

and I'm sure they were wondering, where the fuck are the rest of the doors god that sounds interesting to me and you never like what's stopping you from pursuing that information you just don't care or what i just really don't care i really couldn't care less about my mom's family i couldn't care less about my extended family i really couldn't i have i have some fun cousins i like i have some fun nieces and nephews i like them i love them a lot you know but i don't really care about like when i was a kid i had a hard like i said i had a hard track keeping track of my brothers and sisters sure and then we would have these big family things with the cousins and the uncles now this is your uncle ned this is your uncle frack couldn't keep

him straight couldn't give a shit yeah the talk say hi to your uncle mush i had a guy named uncle mush say hi to your uncle mom like i don't even i can understand that but i guess like because i forget i'm sitting here grilling you one time i don't keep up with my cousins i don't you know one time this is can i one time uh my brother and so we did masonry and then my dad retired so my brother kept doing the business the oldest brother my brother tony he's he's the third oldest boy and so uh he we he goes hey i got this job come help me i gotta fix this chimney on this house he goes they're relatives of dad's. It's dad's cousin or something.

Yeah. He goes, they're going to start. Don't let them know you're a door. They'll never stop talking to you. Right. So I go, oh, okay. So we go to fix it. And I'm just going to run up the ladder and fix the chimney with the bricks or whatever.

And the guy comes out, starts talking to Tony. And I was like, oh, okay. So we come down. Hey, come on in and have lunch. Yeah. Yeah. And my brother Tony goes, okay. I was like, no. So we come down and hey, come on in and have lunch. Yeah, yeah. And my brother Tony goes, okay. I was like, no. So after we go in to have lunch and we're sitting

so the whole time I'm pretending I'm not Jimmy Dore. Right. I'm someone else. And the woman is looking and she brings out the family chart. They have it all like the tree. Yeah. And she starts going out and I see my fucking name on it. And I'm sitting there and I look just like my brother. I look just like everybody in my family. And I'm sitting there and I look just like my brother.

I look just like everybody in my family. Blue eyes, dark hair. I look exactly like them. And the woman's looking at me and she said, I just knew she was bullshitting. Two weeks later, I was at a wedding. She was there. Why didn't you say anything? Because my brother told me.

Didn't she say something? She didn't call me out right then, but I knew she knew. Yeah, yeah. So that was kind of funny. But it's interesting. So do you check in with your brothers occasionally? Yeah, I check in. My brother Miles and Tony I'm tight with.

Yeah. My family kind of pay for it. So my parents were adult children of alcoholics who never really fixed it. So they were with dry drunks. Yeah, right. Both of them. I don't know about my mother so much, but she certainly has some drama issues, that's for sure. I would say so.

Hiding her mother's identity would be one of them. Yeah, those are secrets, right? That's the shame spiral, right? Sure, sure. You're only as sick as your secrets, they say. They say. Yes. Right.

So, yeah, so we papered over our problems pretty well. Yeah. And I moved out here in 95, so I really didn't see my family that much since then. How old were you? 30. Really? Yeah, when I moved out here. So where'd you start doing comedy see my family that much since then. How old were you? 30. Really? Yeah, when I moved out here.

So where did you start doing comedy? So what were you going to say? Your family, what? But it kind of fallen apart in the last couple of years. Oh, yeah. Yeah, tough to call. There's a lot of people. Yeah.

And I got some, I'm going to be honest, I got some knuckleheads in my family. Sure. Like what kind of knuckleheads? Like real knuckleheads. But I got some great people in my family, too. I don't want to shit on my family. Politically, you have problems? Yeah.

Not only that. Yeah. There's that. Yeah. I got, yeah. I don't want to say, it's not good. It doesn't reflect well on me, so to speak. You have to love your family, Mark.

It builds character. Sure, sure. You got to pretend to publicly is what we're learning. Yes, that's what I'm doing. You have to pretend to. But my brother Phil's coming in. Anyway, let's go. He's got one shot in at Phil.

Can I tell you? Here's the joke I wrote my brother Phil. Yeah. Here's the joke. Here's who he is. Okay, okay. So my brother Phil made about 50 grand a year selling house. He was a real estate agent.

He didn't do well. So he took a job driving a school bus for the health insurance. And one day I'm at his house out of nowhere, he starts complaining about the estate tax. He goes, hey, we got to get rid of that estate tax. I'm like, sure, Phil, what the fuck are you talking about? He goes, that's if you die and you have millions of dollars, the government just takes half of it. I was like, that's horrible. Let me know when that becomes a problem.

But until then, maybe you should turn off your AM radio, get invited to your own life, okay? I'm sure the estate tax sucks, but I'm pretty sure estates don't have two cars that don't work on the front lawn. You should be worrying about the T-shirt tax at Walmart, you dickhead. So that's who he is. He picks up the talking points and runs with them. Hard. Yeah. And then threatens to beat you up if you don't. You know, it's interesting is that how one of the things I learned from doing political talk in my personal revelation around it was that if you are fundamentally angry, you know, you pick your side and you work those talking for that.

You know, like it's interesting, you know, how many people are really actually committed ideologically to facilitating change or working quietly to make it happen. Those people are sort of like they're they're the they're the unsung heroes, the people that actually chip away at a grassroots level to change the organization. Yeah, sure. You know, on a city level or community level. There's a group I'm involved with now called Wolfpack, and they're dedicated to getting money out of politics because people people, when I go to promote this book all around, people always go, oh, Jimmy, you've identified the problem. What's the solution? They don't expect me to have one. And the solution is you get money out of politics.

And there's a great group called Wolfpack, wolf-pack.com, and they want to pass a constitutional amendment around this issue to get money out of politics, which you can, you know, every generation has passed an amendment except us. So it's about time, right? Yeah. And they started with New Hampshire. They got New Hampshire to pass it. What is the exact terms of the legislation?

What does it mean to get money out of politics? So you put a ceiling on it? So what they're going to do is I think they're going to call for public financing of all elections. As opposed to private finance. As opposed to private finance. And then people go, well, that would cost a lot of money. Well, you and I both know, Mark, it costs us a lot more money to not have it public financed.

Right. Because the reason why people finance elections is so they can rig the system in their own favor. That's special interests. One way or the other. One way or the other. Either in a very dubious way or just by pummeling us with advertising and misinformation. So people said, oh, sure, you new hampshire it's a small state but you'll never get a big state like california where they have defense contractors and oil money there's too

much money here california passed it too and now last week in the senate they passed a resolution to open debate for calling a constitutional amendment on this issue the ball is moving people are getting awake awake to this i bet you politicians hate it too politicians hate raising money they spend most of their time raising money i'm sure they would love to get money out of politics well it's interesting how many people will it really comes down to how many people get active around this stuff i mean i'm sitting here with the you know i've avoided jury duty once and they sent it back they said they want me and i'm like is there anything i can do to avoid my civic duty to go uh you know sit quietly and judge in a context where it's actually invited that's right do you have you gone no i i one time i got called and i called in and i was lucky because it was Christmas, so I didn't have to go down there.

And then I got another one. They seem to hit me every year. I don't get any break from it. And you get one out. So I took that, and now I got the thing, and they want me to show up. And it's hard with what we do. I mean, I think those rules were made when people just had jobs where they worked in town. I mean, it's like, what do i got to do i i can't imagine how someone could sit on a jury

trial for more than a couple days you know what i mean like even the zimmerman trial so then it makes you wonder who are these more people you think they're morons right i felt like who are the people who aren't smart enough to get out of jury duty or don't have a life that this would disrupt enough to have to get out of jury duty. But it's interesting. You talk to people like I talk to people and my friends who are intelligent people. And in their guts, they do see it as like, well, you got to do it. It's this weird. It's a civic duty.

It is a civic duty. And there's like there's so few that we're actually held to. You know, like obeying laws is that that should be sort of a passive thing. But like there's one thing where it's sort of like, can you show up? And, you know, I don't know, man. I have a hard time. It's really someone told me just don't return the notice. That's what I heard, too.

But I'm yeah, I'm I guess I'm the only idiot that's compelled by guilt to say like, all right, what do I got to do? Oh, my God, I can't do it. On the positive side, Mark, I've never, ever heard of a prosecution over someone not going to jury duty. Have you? No, they threatened a $1,000 fine and up to three days in jail. Yeah. Or community service. But I've never heard of it happening.

Have you? No, but there's always a first. They're going to make an example out of us. But the weird thing is, I don't even know if I go down there and I say, look, I run a radio show. I have a voice in the world. Am I the guy you want on this? Because are they going to swear me to secrecy? They can't do that.

They can sequester you, right? Yeah. Make a bit of gag rule on you. Yeah, but why would they bother? They'd be like, next. Yeah, you're right. You're right. Yeah, I did political talk radio for three years.

I have a substance abuse issue. I'm sober 15 years. I don't know if I'm the guy. And I have a big mouth. Yeah, and I'm a stand-up comedian with a podcast. But I'll do it if you need a guy. I'm willing to fill in. So what did you do?

Did you go to college? Yeah. Where at? Well, I went to Illinois State for three years. You know what they say, if you can't go to school, go to state. Yeah, but sometimes, you know, state schools are good. No, no. College is a scam.

And then I got my degree from Columbia College in Chicago, not Columbia University. Right. But I just put Columbia on Facebook so people don't know the difference. Right. Is that the one you can do online now? No, no. This is, it's an art school in Chicago. It's actually a great school.

Now, when I went there, I went there because they took all my credits from Illinois State. They were the ones who would take most of them. What were you studying undergrad? What were you studying? Communications, and I was going to go into advertising. I got my degree in marketing communications. Yeah? You were going to go into advertising?

Yeah, I was going to write copy, right? Right. With Beat, Lay, and Bricks. That was my other option. Also, there's creativity to writing copies. Yeah. And the thing I liked about advertising, Mark, is that there's no rules. So you can write a one word sentence with a period.

You can put a period after one word. I like this. Well, it's fortunate now that culturally there are no rules anymore. Now there aren't any rules. Because of tweeting and all that, there's no more. You can do whatever you want. That's right. But that's what drew me to writing copy for advertising, that there were no rules.

So I couldn't do it wrong. Right. So it freed me up creatively. Right. But I never got a job because as soon as I got out of college, I went right into doing stand-up. So you did one year at the art school? Yeah, about three semesters.

And what were you doing there? You were actually trying to write copy and pursue advertising? Yeah, I was learning advertising. I learned a lot about it. So you applied for ad jobs, for copy jobs? Not one. Not one. I got out. I was like, you know what? I don't want to get a lot about it. So you applied for ad jobs, for copy jobs? Not one. Not one. I got out.

I was like, you know what? I don't want to get a job this summer. I'm going to have one more summer where I drink my head off and have fun with my friend John McGuire and John Caporelli. We're going to go drinking. And then during that time, I started doing comedy. My friend John Caporelli said, hey, you know, there's an open mic at this comedy club over here.

And I was like, get out of here. And he said, yeah. And the guy who wins on Thursday gets to go up on the Friday. And I was like, I'll go. Are they comics? John McGuire? No, these are just cops. He was a cop friend of mine in Chicago.

And John McGuire works for the Chicago Transit Authority. I think I know a Chris McGuire who's a comic. Yeah, he's a writer for Comedy Central. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, Chris McGuire, a great guy. But yeah, so I went to the open mic. And that was at the time when, you know, they were handing out comedy club jobs, you know?

At Zany's. I got a comedy. I went to a place called the Comedy Womb. And their thing was where comedians are born. Get it? Comedy Womb. Yeah, you should have offered to write them some ad copy. You'd get a different angle on that.

That was the place. I mean, to me, that was like Taj Mahal. But no Zanies. That was the Taj Mahal. Sure, I worked Zanies, sure. But like the comedy. But that was, I waited to go to Zanies because I was intimidated.

Like to me, that was the big place. It was the big place. But like what year was this? 1989. That's about when. That's the boom, baby. That's when the funny. The end of the boom.

Yeah. The end of the first boom, kind of. Because I started in, I started working professionally in 88. And already people were like, yeah, it's not what it used to be. Oh, really? They were already saying that then to you? Yeah, but that was the end of that first weird 80s boom.

Yeah. Because clubs were still opening in Chicago until about 91, and then that was it. Yeah. And it was just, man, it went fast. Really? Yeah, it went really fast. Clubs started closing left and right. There was an improv, which was a 450-seat room.

Then there was a place called the Funny Firm, literally around the corner from each other in downtown Chicago, both 450-seat rooms. The improv is still there, isn't it? There's an improv in Chicago, but it's not where it was. Oh, okay. So what were you sort of focusing on initially as a comedian? Who were your guys, like the ones that you listened to?

So, you know, I mean, I had the usual favorites. George Carlin, right? Boy, that was such an awakening when I heard him. I loved him so much. And then I also loved Jerry Seinfeld. And then I thought I was pretty good. I was like, I got this. I think I know what I'm doing with comedy.

I was in about three years in. I was like, I'm pretty good. Were you featuring or opening? Yeah, I was featuring, headlining B rooms, featuring A rooms, I was like, I know what I'm, I'm gonna be a headliner soon, look out for me, I know what I'm doing. Yeah.

And then I saw this guy named Bill Hicks. Yeah. He came to Chicago and I sat down and watched him in my special spot and the first five minutes, I was like, wow, this guy's really something. 10 minutes, I was like, somebody get me a drink. And after about 20 minutes, I was pretty

sure i was quitting comedy i gotta go bill seems to have covered everything because i always thought you know like i could you know be the best if i do everything right i could maybe be so you saw him in the late 80s then i saw him no early 90s so like 93 right before he died right before he does like maybe 92 maybe even so because i saw him probably i don't know i would say at least 50 sets i saw him do in chicago and because he played there four weeks a year and so i would go anytime he was in town i would be there right after i saw him that first time night and see this thing is i always thought i could be do you ever see him walk a room yeah yeah yeah so i i uh half half a year so i I thought that I could be the best someday. And then when I saw Bill Hicks, I knew that for the rest of my life,

I was going to be competing for second place. And that really hurt. But why? I don't know why, because I was immature. No, no, no. I mean, we all do it. But there is a sense after, I mean, it took me 20 years to realize, I might do what I do.

Well, that's what I had to realize. I realized, well, he did what he did. Well, thank God he died. And I didn't have to compete with him. So I had that going for him. I was like, that's really nice of him to go young. No, really, I realized that after he died, everywhere I went, somebody was trying to be Bill Hicks,

trying to be in their face and smoking on stage, which is the least badass thing you could do. I think I was one of those guys. That's okay. Yeah. But you didn't do it like, I'm in your face smoking think I was one of those guys. It's okay. Yeah. And so, but you didn't do it like, I'm in your face smoking, right? You weren't one of those guys, were you?

No, I don't know. I really was fairly careful not to watch him too much, but I think there was something about, there was a lot of people that were actually kind of doing his cadence and stuff. Oh, no doubt about it. But it was still, it took a unique type of comic to even attempt that.

I mean, like, you see that all the time. I mean, there are certain people that have a contagious cadence. Attell, you know, Todd, you know, there are certain people that are sort of stylized in how they deliver Joe Hedberg. Yeah. You know, but, you know, I mean, I think that's just part of a comic's growth. And, you know, hopefully you get out of that or at least make it your own. Brian Regan, I see around recently.

When I first worked with Norm Macdonald, I sounded like him for about two weeks. Yeah, it's hard. If you're a writer, you do that. You read a book, and then all of a sudden you're like, oh, my God, I'm Vonnegut. But I don't think that's abnormal. But the content of what Hicks did,

the thing is Hicks heldicks you know held a line where you know there was so you know there was an aggressive lack of pandering you know to the point where you know the territory that he claimed for himself on stage was uniquely his because he didn't you know his his satire was so deep and in the type of truths that he decided to eviscerate and do it so lyrically were so kind of raw that people did not know how to contextualize him as a stand-up. So the people that understood it and were like, this guy's the second coming, were far outnumbered by the people like,

he's making me uncomfortable. But that's the way it's supposed to be. Yeah, because if everyone likes him, then it makes it less special in a sense. But there's just no way because he was really, you know, he had taken up the the torch of, you know, hardcore satire and speaking truth to power in a way that no one really had. But but unfortunately, as we've talked about earlier, they the culture was changing and relevance became harder to sort of garner. You know, like at the time lenny bruce was around or whatever you know when lenny bruce got busted nine times i mean it was going to be

carried by the national media you know hicks walks a room there's three comics going that was cool you know so yeah he didn't get arrested yeah i mean and he should have yeah just certainly would help yeah but uh but yeah he was what he got you know what in fact when he got canceled from david letterman that was also that was like one of those things that got him notoriety. Right. More than actually doing the set. But even then, it was so late. It was so late.

I felt that, too. So how did you regroup? I mean, okay, so you watch Bill Hicks. So when I saw all these other people that I thought were doing an impression of him, and it kind of repulsed me a little, or made me not want to be that. I was like, I don't want to be that. repulsed me a little or made me not want to be that i was like i don't want to be that and then uh i just realized that i got to be who i am and i didn't want to be angry on stage like them right i wanted to be able to like uh not be that way so i went the other way a little control so i upped the charming part of myself on stage a little even though i still had maybe a little bit of rough edge

just because i come from where i come from and um so I did it that way and I and I instead of being that confrontational I would be more confrontational with the ideas and not my person not my manner yeah well yeah that's see that's a that's a good choice like I don't I never made that choice it had to happen naturally because a lot of that for me was just you know I was angry but I was just angry you know I could sort of like I was saying before is is that if you gave me a reason and i i thought well that's a good reason i'll just redirect some of the anger that i have my parents into this reason so like it was more of a psychological thing for me that i couldn't stop being angry until i got comfortable with myself like it wasn't a choice i made it was like some of it naturally went away and some of it was just sort of like you know what are you really doing up here because you

can hide behind anger anger is the easiest thing in the world to fucking it's hard to make funny i imagine this is one of those times when i'm learning from you oh really yeah yeah but i mean it's like a lot of those guys i bet you're talking about now that where are they nowhere right i mean like you that's the weird thing about angry comedy is that there's only one or two guys at any given time that can pull it off and then there's a lot of guys thinking they can but it ain't it's it's it's hard it's easier to be cranky yeah yeah i would say lewis black is cranky no he's a great crank yeah yeah i mean it's it's a rare thing and it's one of the it's one of the greatest comedic archetypes there are because like letterman's an honest crank yeah to be an endearing crank is such a fucking gift yes because

you can't manufacture it no right and if you're too angry there's no charm to it but to be the guy that's sort of like what's going on i like i like george carlin when he was angry in fact he got angrier as he got older it looked like i think hicks had a profound impact on him i think so too i think so too and i think it it seemed like he was kind of like uh what i did was try to confront with the ideas and be kind of charming which is how he was and then like maybe bill hicks influenced him go ahead just be angry if you feel like it and he was old enough to where he didn't give a fuck that's right i i really i mean it's too bad we don't have the the option ask him. But I think he's made comments about Bill. And I think that, like, it was clear to me that, because Carlin was really the sort of precedent for what you do, in a way. You know, to do, to be.

I'd like that. He's more of my template, actually. Right, to be clever, to be smart, to take on sacred cows, but not to hit it over the head with it necessarily. And if you're going to, to make sure you've got a good button hit it over the head with it necessarily. And if you're gonna, to make sure you got a good button on it. Right. Yeah. Yes.

And I think that like, you know, something later in his life, you know, outside of seeing the light at the end of the tunnel or whatever is at the end, I'm sure he wouldn't say it was a light, but he was like, what do I care?

I can do an hour a year. And if it gets more weird and more angry, who cares? Like there were points in later Carl and were you like, what? I know. I saw him though, right before he died,

I saw him do a set at the Comedy Magic Club and I'd only seen him in big venues, right? And so I got to sit in a club and see him. And you know, when you're in a room that's small, which is I think a better, I don't know, shape for comedy. Yeah, that's the best. I could feel the funny in his bones instead of the funny in his ideas.

Right. So I could feel the funny in his bones just the way he looked. His eye went up. I could see his eyebrow go up, but I could see the way he paused and the look in his eye. That's, to me, the moments in between like the jazz players talk about. Those were the moments I picked up on in the comedy club, and it was thrilling.

Oh, yeah, no, it's great to see comedy like that. And also, I think Carlin was, you know, insanely controlled. From what I understand, everything was written, every decision that he made was on the books, you know, was on his paper, was in his mind. You know, there was, like, the one thing about Hicks, in seeing Hicks, was that whether it was all written out or not, there was like the one thing about Hicks and seeing Hicks was that whether it was all written out or not,

there was a menace to it. And, you know, at any given point in time, you didn't know whether he was just going to like, you know, you know, where it was going to turn.

And it was like, fuck all of you. Right. And there was an improvisational element just to the sort of like, this could go really bad, really quickly. Whereas I think Carlin,

even, even later was very controlled. I mean, you never got the feeling he was improvising ever. Right. No, I didn't. But the beauty of George Carlin also for me, one of the things I liked is that he remained an outsider, even though he was a cultural icon. He still, I think, always stood a step or two outside of the culture, which gave him that thing where, you know,

Jerry Seinfeld talked about it on that HBO show where he was given that award. He goes, I'd rather be standing in the corner making fun of me up here getting this award. And that's kind of where George Carlin stayed, which is what I think helped keep, he was on the cutting edge of comedy till the day he died. Well, that's also because he was only ever a comic.

That, you know, whatever, that was always his job. And whatever, you know, TV opportunities, which were minimal and they came and went, and he was never anything but George Carlin. that you know whatever that was always his job and whatever you know tv the opportunities which were minimal and they came and went and he was never he was never anything but george carlin right like there are guys there's only a few guys now that really do that that were like because i watched gaffigan the other night and i hadn't seen him in a while and i'm like i gotta go back to like it used to be i'd see hicks i'd be like i gotta rethink everything now like to see gaffigan's skill set right even though he talks about what he talks

about the flow the jokes per minute the sort of comfortability the sort of groundedness in in his in his person he's a guy that does comedy what 200 nights a year for large rooms he's completely clean he's a family it's his job brian regan's another one and you know someone like carlin that's it that was it that's all he did and the same with you uh no no i i'm doing lots of other things now so that's i was just telling you before we started doing this that i have to get back on stage more often i've kind of let that you know i live out in pasadena now and i work all day writing for my show i have another show on the web and and so i'm always doing something or i'm hosting a show for this the young turks i work for so i'm busy all the time now and so when nighttime rolls around i want to smoke a joint and relax

yeah and i can't smoke a joint if i'm gonna go do comedy so i gotta put that off to now what fucking midnight you know i know i know that happens but it's just like it's interesting because i'm just starting to realize this now that the guys that we you know even like the bigger comics now like they are doing a lot of other things and guys that we you know even like the bigger comics now like they are doing a lot of other things and with carlin you know i really think at some point he settled into being carlin and you know he'd do vegas sometimes he'd do like he was just he was an uh you know an icon but he was all only ever a comic there was right you know he did have a sitcom for a little while on fox right and he was a little bit and he did some acting cab driver or

something wasn't he? I don't remember. I forget. I didn't watch it. Well, everyone gets their little shot, even Rickles, but Rickles is another guy. He's a comic his whole life.

That's it. CPO Sharky was a gem. Are you kidding me? It was all right. I mean, he did some TV, but you know what I mean. Have you ever just poked around on YouTube and watched those motherfuckers when they were in their prime

and just watch? I was watching Dangerfield on The Tonight Show just the other night. I somehow was on YouTube and watch those motherfuckers when they were in their prime and and just like and just watch like I was watching Dangerfield on the Tonight Show just the other night I somehow was on YouTube and someone sent me a look at something so then I watched Dangerfield do a Tonight Show appearance spectacular because like it was like a lot of times guys like us you know either you know guys are overly personal or message guys political guys you know you get into this weird insulated place in your head. And then, you know, you just, if you just take a minute and watch one of those old guys just do straight up fucking pure comedy standup, you're like, oh my God, this is like unbelievable. It's just unbelievable.

Like I went from a Dangerfield to a Rickles thing and I'm like, oh, and I'm laughing out loud. Do you know to see Rickles do Pam? Nobody does that. Nobody does it anymore. He came out when Sinatra was a guest. He came out onto the Tonight Show when Sinatra was sitting there just as a surprise. And it was hilarious.

He had, you know, it's weird because you talk about Hicks, but Rickles had huge balls. Oh, he had to. It's insane because he takes it right to the edge. Yes. And you're like, oh, my God. I agree. How can anyone say that to Frank? Yes.

You're like, oh, my God. I agree. How can anyone say that to Frank? Granted, he wasn't taking down corporations, but he was speaking truth to power when he was saying, Frank said, Mr. Gambino said that maybe. No, he, you know what? That was the sense of when late night talk shows,

you had the sense of anything could happen, and they're kind of like doing something they're not supposed to do and also but the entire culture knew who these guys were and yes the entire culture knew who they were you know it was like there's a don rickles was on the thing now like you know somebody watches them on television and you're like did you see the thing like i didn't even know that was on yeah is that a new show yeah where do you get that what network i don't know if i get that network. Can you TiVo it? Just to get to the guy. Do I get that network? I don't even know if I get that. That's my wife telling my parents, I got a show on IFC.

What channel is that? I don't even know if I get that. Can I tell you something? So getting back to my parents and supporting my comedy career. When my hour special on Comedy Central, it got Punchline Magazine named it in five top DVDs of the year. And so I told my dad,

I go, dad, guess what? Punchline Magazine named my special top five DVDs of the year. He goes, Punchline Magazine? And he goes, never heard of it.

That was his response. With that tone? Oh my God. Never heard of it. And I was like, here I am, 40 years old, still fucking getting blindsided by my father. When am I going to realize he's exactly the same? It's hard. You always think, well, he'll like this.

I won't bet him no. Well, it's always going to trigger that same feeling. Yeah. Well, you know what I'm going through now? Is I'm realizing, you know, like I tell people, people go, how are you doing? I go, well, my life has exceeded my dreams many times over and I still manage to be miserable most of the time. So I don't know how I'm doing it, but it is. And I realized that we all think the reason why I tried to achieve, try to be a good comedian, do things right, have discipline was because I thought that if i achieved something it would make me feel the way i thought i wanted to feel which was whole and complete and like i was worthy and it doesn't no matter what i agree no matter no matter what i achieve like i've but you get a little self-esteem i mean that's the weird thing is like when you do achieve something you at least feel like i know

from doing this because i'm the same way that like it's all right well i'm honoring myself at least i have that like i'm being true to myself and that part is it feels good there's a wholeness there but the sort of like the component of happiness or or feeling like you know i did it yeah or or that like you know everything's okay now because i i know what i'm doing it's still that's not there and it comes down to what i think you're heading at is that, you know, if you can't give the approval you were expecting from your parents to yourself at this age, that hole's always going to be there.

Wow. That is, you know what? That is probably right because, you know, you keep thinking, I keep thinking that happiness is on the other side of achievement. Well, if it's always in the future on the other side, when I get there, how will I know? And I'll still be looking towards the next thing,

which is how my life has worked out. And so I just finally, so now here I am. And not only have I achieved more things than I ever think I could have, but here I am, I supposedly have arrived. I don't feel like I have. And in fact, I even feel a little bit fucking cheated because I've achieved what they told me

was supposed to make me feel great. yet I don't you know so it's just like I still have this empty feeling so now I'm starting to I have to like re-evaluate how I relate to work because I don't have any motivation to work anymore because if I know my achievement isn't going to make me feel good what's the point yeah so I have to have to read. That's tricky. Yeah. It's very, I'm going through a thing. Yeah. I just find that, um, like there, there's something about being denied something early on, like whether it's love or support or whatever, that there's still some part of you. Cause it comes, it's supposed to be from your parents where you're like, you will still

expect it. Like there's some sort of like, I'll get it eventually. Yeah. Yes. I think you're like, you will still expect it. Like there's some sort of like, I'll get it eventually. Yeah. Yes. I think you're right. And like the hard switch to make is sort of like, that guy's not going to give it to me. So like either I got to sort of say like, you did good.

I'm proud of you and put your daddy mask on. Or you're just going to kind of keep wandering through life, you know, with that empty feeling. I struggle with it all the time. And I also struggle with the idea. It's sort of well i you know i'm making a living i got health insurance that's all i need i might not die broke now what do i like to do i don't fucking know should i do more what i like to do i like to do three things what do i like yeah like what you know what are the things that like all right i got a life i don't got any kids i don't got you

know i don't have any dependents I don't have any dependents. I don't have a woman in the house making me nuts right now. So it's sort of like, why? The world's my oyster. I guess I'll sit here and jerk off. I can do anything I want. I can do anything I want. I like that porn clip I had yesterday.

Turns out this is what I wanted to do. Yes. Oh, boy, this is revealing to myself. Right? Yeah. And so for me, I just feel like your whole life, you're told to prepare for this thing. Hey, you got to get good grades in school because you got to go to a good high school. When you're in high school, you better get good grades on your SAT so you can go to college.

And when you're in college, you got to do good because you're getting ready. And then you start your job, whatever that is. And they tell you, you got to work. You're at the bottom rung. You're going to get to is they tell you got to work you're at the bottom rung you're going to get to the top and then you get to the top of the rung it's the same shit yeah if you're still like what well but we both know i mean you know we're in a similar like sphere is that you know in our business you know there's always going to be the guy that that that hits the grail so there's always that issue of like sort of like yeah i'm doing okay but like you know i you know i'm not set i'm not set you know what i mean yes

it's like you know in my mind it's like if i ever got set i'd do nothing you know what i mean well that whole thing if i got set what would i do well that i'm i think i'm already doing it still the, I think I'm already doing it. Still the same. I think I'm already doing it, right? You see these guys that are set. You see Jerry Seinfeld out doing dates again. I'm like, why?

Why? Well, in the movie, in his movie Comedian, he answers that question. People always ask me, why? What am I doing this for? And he goes, I don't know. I just feel like there's something that I have yet to discover. And that's why I keep doing it. And I love Jerry seinfeld i not my bag i just love every most things he he's so right about comedy and you know and it's so funny we do such different types of comedy he and i i can't see

that we ever would get along at all like i like you know they see the thing is is weird and it's it's something you have too it's it's interesting because, you know, if you come from a crazy household or you come from, you know, I don't know where he came from. He seems very normal. I don't think so. There's no fucking way. Really? Yeah. I mean, I think that, you know, he's chosen the domain of normalcy to exhibit his genius.

But there's something else ticking there. But the one thing I do know, and about Carlin, too, and about why my guys are you know that more i'm more gravitate towards prior is that you know i'm no control freak you know like i i like to go up there and it's sort of like i hope something fucked up happens you know like and i like when control freaks lose their mind it's one of my great hobbies so like i i'm a chaos guy and they and there's definitely chaos guys and there's control guys you know and seinfeld's a control guy it's like he's all about the craft he's all about the work ethic he's all about this and i'm like well that's that's why i don't see who the fuck you are i don't know who you are if some guy loses his shit i'm like i know who that guy is oh okay yeah and that you know like

it's just it's a different thing with me because i think the risk of comedy is not wondering if this bit that you've labored over for months works and I've gotten more like this I've had to force myself to do this where it's sort of like I'm gonna work on a bit for four months I'm gonna I got a 10 minute chunk here that I want to you know stay a story and I'm gonna put my craft to work and I'm really gonna work this thing and then I find and then you do it on tv and it's right all right it's garbage now knowing like I'm not I'm done with it but uh it's rewarding but there's nothing more rewarding to me than like something that i can't recapture wow yeah you know i'm i'm

one of the control i'm on the control end right you know uh not not having my stuff not knowing exactly what i'm going to do makes me nervous it gives me comfort to have my jokes in my pocket i think i think that's a that's a professional and a personal choice that makes sense and yeah and then what but when i do that show set list like that's why i do that because it scares the shit out of me every time i do it yet it always goes well yeah and so you're professional and forget that sometimes i guess i've been doing this half my life you know what's gonna happen up there okay the words if i start crying that'll be new ah yeah i've never cried on stage i came close i have but not at a stand-up show per se but i've gotten emotional really i i um you know whenever i got up you know i would notice that my anger on stage would be that um i didn't feel like

my comedy was going to go over like there why are you hampering me well one time i walked a room in uh detroit and it was the only time i ever did anything and they've been through some things and somebody was gonna go over. Like, why are you hampering me? One time I walked a room in Detroit, and it was the only time I ever did anything like that. And they've been through some things. And they've been through some things. You must have really. Yeah. What did you do to walk?

Long story. I got time. So, no, just a table of women who didn't want anything to do with the show. It was the second show, and they wouldn't shut up. And I stopped to ask. Did you say cunts? Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. Until they left. Over and over again you said cunts. Over and over. But in a funny way, like lyrical,

I would sing it sometimes and I would just keep saying it. But everyone left eventually? They sided with them. Yeah, the waitresses started yelling at me. Not a full house to begin with. No, it was pretty full.

Oh boy. When you lose when you lose the weights no yeah that's it yeah and they just want to go home early so it served them either way but it's you know but that's one of those things i had to go through you know i think i had to i had to do that i had to well i mean we do that i mean i do that thing where you know you look at a crowd or you get to the club and you you make these weird assumptions like you're already at odds before you even get out there you're like i'm in trouble there's no and and when you do politics that exacerbates it that like you know i knew when i did politics and i would go do gigs not only did i guess less people to the gig being billed

as a political comic but there's already people coming in going like all right let's see what team this guy's on yeah yeah and if they already decided you're not on their team not going to go to the club so you already have you know cut off yourself from a good deal that's why i've been fighting against that moniker of you know i like to think of myself more i tried it i tried to be more of a george carlin-esque you know and less of a um i don't know a different uh someone else a couple of them yeah bill maher but even he's pretty good yeah so i mean i i it's just weird i like to when i go you know it's like but people come out, I'm not telling jokes about the Taft-Hartley Act.

I'm telling jokes about health care. Can you explain that to me? No. Well, I even talk about it in the book, you know, like I talk about gay marriage and pot smoking and I talk about sex and marriage and all that stuff. I talk about all the things. But it's the things,

people think that politics is a game they can play sometime. And a perfect example is this guy, Andy Cohen, who hosts that show on Bravo, right? So about a year or two ago, he was making the rounds on all the talk shows, and he wanted to talk about gay marriage. And he would come on every news talk show, because I watch them all. So I would see him over and over say the same thing, which was, you know, on my show, I'm not political at all. And I was like, really?

You're not political at all on your show? You're a gay guy hosting a national television show. That's fucking political right there. That's like a Jew hosting a television show in Germany in 1930. You're already political. So you can't pretend. He's like, I'm not political. Oh, except when you stop to talk about the most incendiary political issue of our day,

then you're political? Yeah, but also, though, he has a right to it because it affects him extremely personally. See, that's what I found about politics is that the thing is, if you talk about it in a general way, first of all, it's very hard not to be hackneyed. Very hard. Yes. It's very hard to actually have your own point of view on talking points from either side. And that was one of the issues I had with doing political talk is that one day you wake up and you're like, none of these are my ideas.

Right. And I'm not saying they're not important ideas, but who am I carrying water for? But also like, you know, if you can't speak sometimes from a personal place, like how does it affect me? That really became sort of the deciding factor for me. Right. Like if I sit here and I really engage and I'm incredibly disengaged that's also your choice as an american and as a person it's sort of like i'm not paying attention well why not i'm like because i so i can i don't have to pay attention you know i'm all right you know i pay my taxes what do i have to fucking pay

attention for and but i feel guilty about that but like if i was to really sit down and you know think about the palestinians or think about, you know, racism in this country, which I do occasionally. But more so than not, I end up thinking about myself. And is there a crime to that? No. But is that where I'm doing my comedy from? Yeah. Does politics sometimes get involved?

Not as much as it should, but it does occasionally. But I have to come from that place or else I don't feel like I feel like I'm doing myself a disservice. I feel like I'm being disingenuous. Yeah, well, you have to speak for wherever you are emotionally. That's where you have to speak from, you know, but the problem I have with a guy like Andy Cohen saying that because it makes it sound like politics is a game you can play sometimes that nice people don't ever really bring up. It's rude almost to talk about it. He's just talking about this one little thing that happens to be inextricably tied to every other fucking thing. But he's just talking about it.

He's letting you know he's not like one of those strident political types who's going to say anything that makes you uncomfortable. He's a good guy. As if it gives you a false sense that politics is a game you can play sometimes. What I try to tell people is that everything is politics. You want to smoke pot without going to jail? That's politics. You want to be able to marry somebody of the same gender? That's politics.

You want to be able to get the pothole fixed in front of your house? That's actually politics. So everything is politics, and if you think it's not, you're just letting other people, rich people, decide what your community should look like. Okay. But I understand being disengaged on purpose like you are, you are super engaged, and then for whatever reason, emotionally or artistically, you de-engage.

That's different. You're not pretending that politics is a game you can play. It's also, but the choice is, it's a weird thing with politics. Sometimes people like to keep it private. When you just say that's politics, it's not essentially politics until you need to sort of figure out well why isn't this happening like how is it how is it unfair like if i want to go to a doctor and not go bankrupt like oh right is that politics turns out right yeah but a lot of people like you know i don't even know how my insurance works but you had health issues yeah so it became a fairly big deal for

me what what was the story that what happened to you so now i had they couldn't diagnose it for a while uh and i just kept kind of my my condition deteriorated and uh what was it turns out it was a bone pro i had a tumor very rare disease like maybe two people a year get it how long ago did it first start happening so it started happening around 2004 and then it just kept going and I was- What was the symptom? Pain in everywhere, and then I had dead bone in parts of my body, my hip, and then I had a couple of vertebra break.

I broke my back three times. What, because of this condition? Yeah. What's it called? It was called osteomalacia, hypophosphatemia- But they couldn't figure out what it was? No, well here's, kind of tell you a funny story. I would go to these doctors and they would go, oh, we think you have this.

And then six months later, I'd get worse. They go, oh, you have something else. They don't know. And I go, who should I go with? They go, you should go to this guy, Dr. Sharp. He's the best guy. So I call him up and he didn't take insurance. I was like, well, I can't.

It's going to cost me $1,000 just to walk in the door. I can't buy. What an idiot, right? So finally, I'm just about dead. I go, hey, let's go see that Dr. Sharp. And he figured it out like that. And he goes, oh, you have this thing. Nobody's ever going to know what this is. I saw this once before in 1968, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So then he got me on the right treatment and I feel good. But what was the struggle with insurance? I mean, were you paying out of pocket? Yeah, I was paying. Oh, left and right. Yeah, it costs a lot of money. I had a couple of spine surgeries. And so, yeah, it cost a lot of money. I had a couple of spine surgeries. And

so yeah, everything costs a lot of money. And I didn't have a benefit. I didn't do that because I was dumb. So it also caused a depression mentally in me, depression. So I didn't want to do anything. I didn't want to do that. I didn't want to look weak. I can't pay my own bills. So I didn't have one of those things. So I just paid for it. Anyway, but so yeah, so that made me political, and that made me, changed a lot of things in my life, made me look at things a lot differently. It was one of the, yeah, it was what I was definitely like, when Robin Williams, or, you know, I was like, I know exactly what that's like. I know exactly you want to be right.

You're like, oh, there's a real fine line between crossing that line and not crossing that line. Could be just a bad morning. Yeah, you know, and not crossing that line could be just a bad morning yeah you know and i think you know as an artistic type you know i got to remind myself every morning this is going away yeah right yeah i do that too like i was fairly despondent and i felt a weird kind of uh heavy-heartedness the last couple days and because like i'm a sober guy and like you know i've been through it before i had to say like no there's a good chance this might go away yeah you know this ain't every day this ain't going to be the rest of your life and it does you know unless you hold on to it yeah yeah no it's not going away we just talked about it for an hour i know but didn't help maybe you're committed to it no fuck you see now you're part of the problem

but i'm it's great you know i i feel feel, you know, I couldn't be happier now. I mean, I couldn't be a little. The last time we had, like, I always felt like the weird thing with you in terms of me is that, you know, I knew that, you know, when I did your show with your wife, we had a nice time. But I've seen you a few times. And, like, if you're an angry guy, it's almost like being a Jew. Like, you know another angry guy. Can I tell you one time you were at the improv and you were on stage and I like if you're an angry guy it's almost like being a Jew like you know another angry guy can I tell you

one time you were at the improv and you were on stage and you were doing the joke about Santa Claus what was that it was a long time ago what I don't even remember having a joke about Santa Claus

Jesus Santa Claus is something you had a joke and it was funny and it was like a small crowd at the improv and I laughed you know I have a loud laugh

I let it go I don't hold that in and you thought I was mocking you. And you go, oh, fuck you, Jimmy. You're fucking mocking me. And I didn't want to yell out, hey, no, I'm enjoying this. Because I didn't want to get any more into your set. Right, right, right.

So I just shut up about it. And then I didn't tell you afterwards. I think I did go up to you and say, you know, I was really just laughing. I enjoy your comedy. And then you were like, yeah, you're fucking, Jimmy, you're sitting there mocking me. I'm like, I wasn't mocking you. I was just enjoying you. I'm so insecure. I remember one time I was on the road. And because I had never, you know, you're fucking jimmy they're sitting there mocking me i'm like i wasn't mocking you i was just enjoying you i'm so insecure i remember one time i was on the road and because i had never you know you're a new york guy so i hadn't really seen you that much

and there was a middle and i was like i'm pretty sure that's a mark maron joke so i went online to look for your stuff and i hadn't seen your letterman sets and i was like well those are really those are really good yeah and i emailed you i was like those are fantastic well here's the weird thing about angry people and about what I maybe have done with you in the past. Because I thought we had a problem around Todd coming out. No, you and I did not have a problem. No, I know that.

But see, the thing about anger, about the other thing, about the laughter thing, is that I'm going up there with this stuff and you make this assumption in your head that people aren't going to like it. This is not going to be for everybody. So then what you end up doing is literally projecting the voice inside of you, which is like this. You know, they don't like you or this is going to suck or whatever.

And you put it on other people. It's a load off. So like, you know, some guy like you. I don't know that well. I'm like, well, you just did what I assumed everyone would do. Right. And, you know, and I know you did that. you i don't know that well i'm like well you just did what i assumed everyone would do right and and you know and i know you did that yeah i've been having a real issue with this shit uh perception

like you know what what am i making up and what is real especially when it comes to other people most of the time you're making it up yeah a lot of time it's projection yeah it's crazy yeah a lot of time it's projection it's crazy and like you know if you keep pushing the projection enough eventually they'll be like yeah i don't like you you're right you're right now i don't like you but i and then and then when i was you know when i was coming back in when i was getting better and healthier i went through a thing where i was i got nervous to be on stage yeah oh god i was like are you fucking i was like that made me angry like it made me angry like i was angry at this emotion inside of myself crazy but but that helped me you know like it helped me angry like it made me angry like i was angry at this emotion inside of myself

but but that helped me you know like it helped me get on stage like because it kind of reawakened an anger or something and so my anger was stronger than my fear i haven't had that in a while like richard prior said the only enemy of creativity is fear because you don't know when that's going to come yeah you know and that feeling of like you know especially if you spend 20 years of your life up there and all of a sudden you hit with this like the vulnerability yeah vulnerability that's it yeah oh for the i remember i was on stage at the laugh factory in long beach and i remember it went through my head what if they don't laugh yeah i had never really thought that before really i i don't i know what if they don't like what if they don't like i always knew they were gonna laugh i'm gonna do

get in like what if it's quiet silence yeah there's nothing would boo me do something yeah yeah and I had that fear and they of course they laughed and everything but I'm got I was shitting my pants for some reason I couldn't wait to get off stage which I don't like that I never had that feeling before I can't wait to get off stage what the weird thing is like you know like if that vulnerability is up right up next to you you know I I tend to you know sort of like try to live in it a little on stage but if it's right there and it's not quite in line like if it's like a fear thing or a sad thing like that you know when you're up there it's like if if that gets out you know all bets are off you're like there's a there's a moment there where you like it because i was doing these

huge shows and i'm like if i really like let myself be like the the sort frightened, vulnerable person that I am right now, they're not going to laugh. I'm going to have a thousand people going like, what's happening with a weird silence? Like, oh, I know that's right there. And and that that moment where you're in that battle like that can't win. Well, I think, you know, being vulnerable on stage, it has to be a very controlled vulnerability because, you know, the old analogy people used to make about the comedians, like a lot like a pilot on a plane. You don't want your pilot to be nervous. Hey, I don't know. That's right. That's true. That's true. You can't expect the audience to sort of parent you. Right. In a way. You can't

go up there like, I'm lost. You know where my mommy is? Yeah. You know, you have to have that under control. Like, OK, if you know how this is going to work out, I'm lost. Do you know where my mommy is? You have to have that under control. They're like, okay, if you know how this is going to work out, I'll let you be vulnerable. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're trusting you. If I have a feeling that you know where this is going. You've got a handle on it. Yes.

Well, yeah. So that's the- That's the trick. Yeah, that's the catch-22. So tell me all the things you've got going on right now. So I got this book, which is Your Country Is Just Not That Into You, which I'm real proud of. How's it doing out there?

Happy about it. It's doing great. Good. It's doing really good. Then I have a web series with the Young Turks. The Jimmy Dore Show is over there, and I have the Jimmy Dore Show podcast and radio show. No more comedy and everything else?

Yeah, it's a hiatus. It's still up. People still download. We still get about 17,000 downloads a week On that thing People like listening To those shows Yeah And

But no We haven't done anymore We haven't done I've just been too busy Doing other projects I was doing a tour With the Young Turks We were doing live theaters

And stuff So now Ben Mankiewicz And I And Cenk Uygur They're good guys Yeah so And they got a big operation Over there

Yeah Yeah it's really nice And you're making a living And I can do it Yeah, I can do and say Whatever I want Which is the greatest thing Well, you seem great

And I'm happy that you're happy Well, thank you For the most part For the most part, I'm happy All right, thanks, Jeremy Thanks for having me, Mark That's it That is my show

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