WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 573 - Jim Gaffigan

Episode Date: February 1, 2015

Even though this is Jim Gaffigan's fifth appearance on WTF, it's the first time he and Marc actually have a full-length conversation worthy of the garage. Jim talks with Marc about big families, absent dads, clean comedy, Greg Giraldo, working with your spouse, finding your inner voice, and food. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton. The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction.

Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5 p.m. in Rock City at torontorock.com. Lock the gates! Welcome to the show. Thank you. Yes, yes. I'm a little sick. I know you can hear it in your head. I apologize that you can hear my sick head in your head. But that's just the way it is. I don't know what it is. It's hard to tell what it is anymore. Things have changed since I was a kid.

It's indecipherable what kind of virus you have. Is it a cold? Is it a flu? Is it bronchitis? Is it some weird combination? Did the flu and the cold fuck each other? And now we get this weird thing. This flu cold thing that's what i think it is because i'm not immobilized like a flu but i feel fluey had a little fever my head's all

stuffed up my chest feels like someone was sitting on it all night i got a little of this. Can you hear that down there? Not that productive, but it's in there. Something deep. Got a demon in my lungs. But I feel okay. I feel better than I did. Nothing worse than getting sick on a shoot, man. Hey, before I start whining

about my sickness, marination. My spring tour starts April 9th in Washington, D.C. at the Warner Theater. And then continues to Philadelphia, Boston, Madison, Wisconsin, Pittsburgh, Royal Oak, Michigan, Toronto, Houston, Dallas, Seattle, Vancouver, San Francisco, Asheville, North Carolina, Charleston, South Carolina, Atlanta, and New Orleans. Go to WTFpod.com and click on the calendar to get all the dates, venues, and links to buy tickets. I'm touring. I'm going out there. And that'll be ongoing.

We'll see how it goes, folks. We'll see how it goes. I got the new hour hour i got the new stuff i got things i gotta say i'm on i want to entertain i'm here i'm an entertainer did a little reach out for some tour art see what comes in i figure i can do poster art for every city really by different artists and then cut a deal with them. Maybe make the posters available at the venue for the show that the poster represents.

That's my big plan. That's my big merch plan. I'm a businessman. Today's Jim Gaffigan day. Jim Gaffigan has been on WTF in a few different versions. He was on a very early episode that we did in New York before I left New York with the show. Before it was really an interview show. It was him and his wife was in the room and she was

talking as well. She writes for him. The two of them. And then I did another one backstage somewhere where I interviewed, I think it was 80 miles and then he was did a small one he's i feel like he's been on the show a few times in one version or another but this is the only uh full wtf interview so that's exciting um yeah i don't know what i have but it was really unnerving to do these you know to be shooting a show because you want to have a good time you want to be in it you want to be acting you want to be you know available with full focus and energy and then like I'm being dragged down

by this god damn monster inside of me this virus and I know maybe I'm a baby I guess I am but I was sick man and as people who who have to go to work know like there was no not going to work. You know, we're shooting a show with my name on it.

I can't call in and be like, no, no, today's not good. I don't feel good. All right, let's just close down shop, take the hit for 100K. And hopefully you'll feel good tomorrow, whatever it would cost. I don't know. So on Thursday, I guess it was they had a uh a doctor come in when i started to feel like i was getting sick we had a set doctor come in and i said i don't know what to tell you man i just thought i should see somebody i don't know what

to do maybe i need antibiotics i'm not an antibiotic guy but maybe give me a give me some antibiotics she said i'll give me i don't know if they'll do anything she goes you know i have the b12 shots i'm'm like, yeah. She goes, yeah, a lot of people love them. They swear by them. I'm like, I never had a B12 shot. I don't know what it means. Isn't that the thing that, you know, like Belushi used to do after, you know, a five-day Coke bender and schvitzing down at the 9th Street Baths?

Do a B12 shot? Isn't that the remedy for hard living? She said, I don't know. I got one if you want one. So I did it. I got a B-12 shot. I think for about an hour I felt very lively. I don't know.

It was hard to tell. Maybe it helped. Maybe it didn't. But I will tell you this. I got to work with Lucy Davis, who was playing my manager in a couple episodes this year you might know her she was on the original office with ricky gervais and it was a real honor and a blast to do comedic scenes with her another kind of a weird highlight for me and this is kind of

bizarre one is that you know we do casting and people come into reefer parts and there was a part on another episode uh for a doctor and i looked at the castings i looked at the uh the the actors who read you know i see them all from the casting agent and gregory white was one of the guys who read for the doctor part now gregory white was that guy on that mcdonald's commercial that old guy that McDonald's commercial. That old guy that a lot of people thought looked like me. I used to get busted all the time. My balls busted constantly because that guy looked like an old version of me.

It was a McNuggets commercial I think. Either you know it or you don't. But this is the guy that was in that commercial who looks like me. And I do and will cop to the fact that he looks like me. And I couldn't help myself. I'm like, God, I got to hire that guy. We got to have that guy. And it was hilarious.

He was hilarious. We did a great scene and it was very exciting for me in this weird way. But so shooting, like I'm glad I feel a little better. I'm a little less, you know, it's weird when you get sick, you get angry. And like God, I know people deal with chronic illness. It's horrifying. You just feel immobilized. And I was just hoping I'd feel a little better by today.

And I do. I just want my voice back so we don't have inconsistencies do you know what I mean because you know you shoot out of sequence so like hey what like how come in that last scene marked in sound not sinus-y do you just do you just get a horrible cold driving to the store

so hey hopefully nobody will notice if you know what I'm saying did another funny scene with Amanda Booth, an actress and model person. She was great. Funny scene. Oh my God, being sick, all I wanted to do was eat peanut butter on toast. Peanut butter and honey on toast.

I don't know where that comes from, but I just gave myself license. I must have eaten a fucking full jar of peanut butter and a half a loaf of bread on toast because that's all I wanted to eat when I was sick. Is that good? What do you, is it starve a cold, punch a fever in the face? Starve a cold, feed a

fever? I don't know, man. I woke up with a fever and I plowed through. Ate a bunch of peanut butter and toast. Had some juice. Took a bunch of vitamins. Took some bunch of peanut butter and toast. Had some juice. Took a bunch of vitamins. Took some antibiotics. Doing all I can.

Had some fever dreams. Those are really the best. Those are really the best. As a sober person, you know, I don't get to enjoy mild hallucinogenic fun. So when the fever dreams came, one of them was pretty compelling.

The other one was bizarre. One, I was on an island or something and I had to be somewhere else, but I had taken a boat to the island and I had parked the boat and I was going to fly off the island, but I knew that I had taken the boat there and I didn't really know what to do about the boat. And I didn't know how I was going to get back. I, but I knew that I'd taken the boat there. And I didn't really know what to do about the boat.

And I didn't know how I was going to get back. I don't know if I could leave the boat where it was supposed to be left. But I was really in a conundrum. It was a really difficult situation. Like, I think I might have to take this boat all the way back to the mainland. Because I did rent it and bring it out here. I can't just leave the boat here with nobody knowing whose boat it is. That was the big problem.

I don't know how that resolved itself. Not a very compelling fever dream. Not as compelling as the dream I had that my brain was reprogramming itself. I had this weird dream that my brain was kind of either rebooting or reprogramming itself. And it was beginning with images of every architectural structure I reprogramming itself. And it was beginning with every, with images of every architectural structure I'd ever been in. So it was just like this flash of structures and buildings, just like picture after picture of buildings after buildings.

It was like a mutoscope. You remember those, I don't know if you had one, they were a Nickelodeon arcade thing. Benny Levine used to have one in his shoe store in Pompton Lakes when I was a little kid, where you roll this, you kind of crank this thing on the side and it kind of flips pictures over

so it looks like moving it's a predecessor to the film projector but it was like that only all the pictures were different and didn't work in a sequence and they were just folding into my brain matter fuck man I wonder if that really happened

I wonder if that during that fever my brain kind of maybe my hypothalamus just did a reboot because of the heat don't know I don't know tired of worrying about it hey you know what

let's talk to Jim Gabb you can get anything you need with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs and mozzarella balls, yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats, get almost, almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region.

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This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Again. So you have kids, so you have you have kids so you have to have time you make time to do things that you might might have missed or gotten away from absolutely like the uh the superhero thing i never it's really just getting into superheroes i never i never got into I don't believe in heroes. Yeah. It's a very profound statement there. There are no such things as heroes. No, but my kids, you know, Spider-Man. We have five or six Spider-Man outfits.

Yeah. And then we have some for the kids. Well, I get it. But, I mean, but it's not. Are you finding you're, like, enjoying the stories? Like, how did I miss this? Yeah, You're like, how did I miss this? Yeah, I think somehow, how did I miss this? Well, what were you doing, Jim?

I was the youngest of six, so I think I was... Well, there must have been a lot of shit around left over to go through. No, I think there wasn't. I think there was... I mean, you know, Star Wars. I saw Star Wars in the movie theater. I was like, eh, it's all right. And my kids, you know, we own it, so they watch it.

Regularly? Once a week. I've been Darth Vader for three years for Halloween. Really? I was Darth Vader at my son's, he's eight now at his fourth birthday party, and I did a lightsaber thing with him. And I won. Well, good. Well, you got to get it where you can jim yeah but so is your brothers how what how what was the breakdown

of the siblings the siblings i yours four boys and two girls and i'm the youngest of six there wasn't like a stack of records and a bunch of comic books? There were records, but there was not... Comic books, not a thing. They didn't like it. How old is your oldest brother? The oldest in my family is my sister Kathy, and she's, I don't know,

she could be like 100, and I wouldn't know. And then my brother Mike is, I don't know, 50s? Yeah, somewhere in there. It's all a blur. It's like, who cares? Well, you kind of know.

I mean, I kind of know that there's six kids over seven or eight years. They're just old. Now they're old? They're older than me. Yeah, but how old were you when you saw them all leave i imagine yes yes i always wonder about that was that difficult do you remember yeah it was a little bit you're leaving me here with these people that are crazy your parents yeah you know there's a little bit of you know the enthusiasm wanes yeah right oh you're still here yeah i'm still here

so there was some of that but there was also and i you know when i started off i used to there's yeah there's such a uh uh an amount of distrust that develops in parents of that generation right how old were they how old are they they around anymore no no neither one of them thanks for bringing it up well it's talk but um sorry no so they you know so they were not uh they were baby i don't know what they were not helicopter parenting it was kind of you know seinfeld has the joke it's like i'll see you at dinner yeah i mean so there were that kind of parents right but they were but they had been lied to by so many teenagers. By the time I got there, they were just like, you're guilty. And I was like, I didn't do anything wrong.

And they're like, just go to your room. And you're like, all right. They were jaded. So the paranoia, which I think is pretty important for comedians, you can describe it as paranoia or point of view or suspicion. I think I learned that from my parents, how they're parenting. You feel like you're paranoid? I think there's a little bit. I guess so.

Well, it's a type of defensiveness or a type of self-protecting. Like, yeah, you must be up to something. Yeah, I remember. or type of self-protecting. Like, yeah, you must be up to something. Yeah, I remember. You know when you do, like, I think 100 years ago I did, I met with, I was meeting with people that were, you know, writers for a TV show, and they're like, well, you know, we really, you know,

we'll capture some of your paranoia. And I'm like, paranoia? But the guy cited this joke I had about Mexican food. He was like, well, that's kind of a paranoid. Because I have this thing that seven entrees, seven names just for the same type of food. Right. And he's like, that's a very paranoid perspective of things. And I'm like, all right, maybe it is. I don't think that it is.

I think it's a simplification. Maybe. I think that, you know. That's kind of paranoid of you to think that. Is it? No, I don't. But, okay, so why so many kids on your parents' part? Were they just Catholic?

No, they wanted Jews to feel uncomfortable. That's why they did it. No, that was very common. People would have a lot of kids. Six? Six people. We lived across from a family that had 13. Six people?

We lived across from a family that had 13. And the mom would collect all the milk jugs in the garage with all the newspapers. She was crazy. Well, so that's not common. That's crazy. Well, no. But large families were pretty common. 13?

13. 13. I think there's somebody who had... Somebody. Now it's one person. There was somebody in the Old Testament who had somebody now it's one person in the old testament who had hundreds hundreds but 13 like my wife's one and nine but where'd she grow up milwaukee and you grew up where in indiana but there's also a lot of benefits from a larger family there there's a communal close yeah no there is something and socialization i feel like that no i think that's true because you're literally growing up in your

own neighborhood but what is the neighborhoods in your house why let me ask you this sure why is there anything wrong with someone having a large family there's nothing what is wrong with it there is nothing wrong with it no but i've had people secretly say it. They're like, I think it's so cool. But aren't you worried about like, it's like they're not like dogs that are going to run in the street. They're human beings. Right. And they listen to you eventually.

So they eventually, you know, some of it's nature and nurture, but some of it is they're going to be how they're going to be. It's like. Right. Right. You know, if they're raised with caring parents, that's all that really matters. No,

I don't think I have, I don't have kids. So like, you know, you're asking the wrong guy, but I think that most people just react with sort of like, wow, that seems like a lot of not you.

Like, how can you be that selfless? You know, how can you, like, I think most people are fundamentally selfish and the idea of, of, of six kids,

it just overwhelms the modern brain. They're like, how do you have time to do anything? I think we've been culturally told that it's weird. I think that people have been told that, like, by the way, when you think about it, if someone says, I have six cats, you think they're crazy. Yeah. But what if someone really enjoys six cats and their apartment isn't covered with cat turds? That's a long shot. I mean, that's a rare thing you're talking about.

Maybe that's not good reason. What if they have six cats with one leg missing on each of the cats? Right. Well, no, what I'm saying is that with six kids, you're going to have shit all over the house. There's not going to be any stopping it. My wife is pretty thorough. Like like our house is really clean yeah yeah there's not toys all over the place no would there be look my i'm a slump yeah so she's got

clean up after you do my apartment like if you saw my apartment when i was single yeah like people like my brothers and sisters would come over to my apartment. You still live in an apartment in New York? Yeah. Well, it's big now. You must have a big, like, six bedroom. We moved. We moved. Yeah. But my siblings used to want to come to my apartment so they could laugh at it. They'd be like, you got to see Jimmy's apartment.

Because I had the tub in the kitchen. It was a tenement stop, right? They're like, there's a window for no reason in the middle of the apartment. And I'm like, well, there used to be different families living here. But, you know, to someone that lives in the suburbs, it's just insanity. Well, did you grow up in a rural environment? It wasn't rural, but, you know, in high school, I definitely went to a couple of parties where I sat on a haystack. Yeah.

Or a couple of parties where I was in a trailer park drinking a beer. Sure. But then again, I was also, you know, there were, you know, Chicago is 45 minutes away. Right, right. And so there was, you know, it was a pretty nice existence. No, yeah, I mean, I grew up in New Mexico. We've taken drives out to weird places to sit and drink on rocks.

Yeah. Yeah, I mean. I mean, I could romanticize it and make it sound like, you know, and then I was eating one summer I ate only hay, you know. But it really was. Wouldn't that be romantic? It was essentially a, you know, a suburban existence. Right.

And what'd your dad do? My dad was a banker. He was a banker? A banker. At a banker a banker and at a local bank did he have his own bank commercial bank it was it was uh it was a local bank in in northwest indiana and your mom was watching children was watching children and uh no side projects meals on wheels yeah wheels. Yeah. Stuff like that. Needle pointing awards.

So, I mean, that's the other thing about six kids. It's like if your dad seemed like he made a nice middle class living, so there was never that panic. Right. No. And, you know, there's something about, you know, I make a decent living. So, as long as I can afford a decent cheeseburger, I'm all right. It's not like I need a boat. Yeah.

You know what I mean? That's how I always describe it. I'm like, whoa, I can't get my boat. You know, that's not... You mean the sacrifices you have to make for having kids. They're minimal. It's like, so I'm going to be bald a year earlier. Yeah.

You know, it's like, oh... Well, what you're saying is that you'll do whatever is necessary for the kids, and you love the kids. And what I get from these kids is immeasurable. And I know it sounds like a rationalization. No, it's not a rationalization. What is this voice in your head that has decided that people are against big families and that somehow saying that you get a lot out of your kids? Because they are. Because they are. They're are against big families and that somehow saying that you get a lot out of your kids.

Because they are. Because they are. They're all against big families. They're all out to get me. You are paranoid. Yeah. I get it. It goes right back to the beginning.

Yeah, but that's a voice in your head. That's not paranoia. That's a self-judgment thing. Oh, really? I'm getting reprimanded for being paranoid by Mark Maron. Yes, you are. No, because I've learned things about it. What it is is there's

part of your brain that go and it's and i think you vocalize that in your act that's sort of the that weird id voice you do is that one that's sort of checking you all the time there's a a party that's sort of like i don't know should i you know maybe it's uh maybe we want to have self-awareness right right yeah but self-awareness, and I think that that is part of it, but that voice is not always smart. Right. Do you know what I mean? That voice is sort of some manifestation of fear.

Right. Right? So when you were young, you were brought up, how Catholic was it? I was mostly cultural Catholic. It was kind of like, hey, you're- Right, right. You know, we go to church intermittently. Did you go every Sunday?

Oh, intermittently. You know... I think Jews and Catholics have it better like that. Like, you know, like regular Christians or people that come to Christianity later, like these really old religions like Catholicism and Judaism, there was sort of... The lapse thing was okay. You could be socially Catholic.

Well, they... You know, that's when, you know when all this stuff happened with the radical Islam. Yeah. People did describe it, that it's the newer of the three. Right, right. It's like, we don't. It's like, look, we got to give them a couple hundred years, and then they'll be drinking with the rest of us and ordering extra cheesecake.

That might be a long, destructive wait. So, okay, but your older brothers, what did they end up doing? What was your influences when you were younger? I mean, did you look up to those guys? Yeah, I was, you know, I think, you know, my older brothers, you know, my older brother Mike kind of rebelled. My father was the first in his family to, after many generations being in this country, to go to

college. So, success was wearing a coat and tie. And so, my brother Mike kind of rebelled against that, and he was like, I'm getting a pickup truck, and I'm not wearing that. Yeah. And then, but all my sisters and my brothers, you know, very much coat and tie kind of jobs. Really? And when I announced that I wanted to

be in the entertainment industry or be a comedian, they just thought it was cute. Right. He'll get over that. Isn't that adorable? Yeah, he'll get past it. Because back when I started, it was not as adorable

or GQ article as it is today. No, I remember when you started i remember you you have more hair it seemed whiter even yeah it's it's actually getting it's maybe the gray is better the gray or i don't know yeah but i feel judged but yeah no you are judged i'm not judging you all right and i judged you in the positive your hand on my thigh well yes i'm trying to comfort you all right uh so but but you didn't it wasn't always comedy i mean it seemed like you know when you were younger that there was a another agenda you like i remember we talked a

bit a long time ago but i think you might have been the enemy at some point right the enemy yeah like working in advertising no i mean before that jockey fratty jockey fratty yeah you think the enemy jesus christ this is such bullshit the enemy the enemy can i just point something out it It's like you exist in these like mythological kind of constraints that don't exist. You're like, we're doing a show in Irvine. You're like, you know what? Out there, it's all these people. I'm like, Mark, it doesn't. It's not like they're not voting for gay marriage right now.

These are the people that can afford a $90 ticket to see Louis C.K. You know, it's like, it's not. Well, I wanted to make it more complicated than that. Because I wanted to, yeah. Oh, so, but was I, was I what? A frat guy? Mm-hmm. I was in a fraternity for a year, but I never did the final pledge.

But that was my freshman year in college. But I don't think that I was. In high school, who were you? No, I don't get the feeling that you were a bully in any way. No, no, no, no. No. I was definitely... I mean, look, I'm a comedian because I was kind of tortured because I was so pale and

odd when I moved. People thought you were an albino? Yeah, there was some of that. And, you know, like... So, I was definitely the outcast. Why are you so fair? Because I'm cool. That's how God made me.

No, I know that. I'm not judging you. No, why am I so pale? Do you have Scandinavian in you? No, I think it's Irish. It's... Pale Irish? I've heard of black Irish.

I didn't know there was a white Irish. Well, you know, all the blonde hair in Ireland, blonde and red hair, it's just the Vikings coming down and- So you got- Yeah, I can see you having some Viking in you. You know, that shows you- I think that's interesting.

You know, historically, it's just- Like, the Vikings are adorable. Yeah. They're like, you know, the Vikings, you know, that's kind of interesting. They had horns in their- I don't know. They seemed pretty- But they were raping and pillaging.

Yeah. Menacing. I always thought of them't know. They were raping and pillaging. Yeah. Menacing. I always thought of them as the Vikings were like menacing. But, you know, we don't look at people in Sweden and go, hey, we got to watch them. They used to be Vikings. Right. But, you know, the other countries were kind of like, we got to keep an eye on these people. Well, maybe it was a little before and it didn't get as much press and it kind of got

mythologized and romanticized. The Vikings did, you know. A lot of boats and, yeah, the big- Boats, wooden boats. Wooden boats. Yeah, and horns. And horns. All right, so, but were you the funny guy

or you weren't the funny guy? I was the funny guy, I would say. You know, I was funniest. But I went to a rare high school. I went to a high school where there were 25 people in my graduating class. Really? Yeah.

The private school? Private school. I went to one of my graduating class. Really? Yeah. The private school? Private school. I went to one of those briefly. They threw me out. There was only like 35 graduating seniors. It's a little weird, right? And you were on a- It was very weird.

And you played team sports? How many people were on the team? Did you- There was, you know, there was- Everyone who tried out got on? Everyone that tried out got on. Right. But we were good.

Yeah. We were good at things. You know, I beat in wrestling. I beat the guy that was third in state. And I played football at Georgetown. But not, I wasn't a great athlete. But I would say that. Wrestling. My high school was very much, it didn't fit the John Hughes.

Right. Stereotypes of, you know, those different kind of characters yeah it was more like everyone was everything right oh right so you didn't have clicks because it was so small and you all kind of knew each other yeah it was hard to have a quick a quick would be what two guys yeah it was just it was not and then by the end of the day they're like oh they showed the record there wasn't too to everybody well it's okay yeah so it was it didn't really hold up and my hear my wife talk about the click thing and it sounds terrifying but genie right yes your wife who is uh we she was involved in the last one yes she was you were flirting with her during the last she does it to me i do oh she does do it huh

you don't have a reputation for flirting at all either you're gonna tell me that your wife isn't kooky my wife is very kooky i wouldn't be with a boring woman you're gonna tell me that that i might not misinterpret that as flirting i don't know i thought it was very i thought it was very uh sociable i didn't think there was did you feel menacing you felt menaced from no i just look we all have friends that were like all right i gotta keep an eye on this guy and you're one of them me i'm the guy you're you're evil did you just fart it smells like shit no yeah you did i didn't know no there's uh i don't know why it happens but at certain times at night it smells like raw sewage back here right and maybe it's because you're letting gas i'm not letting gas out of my ass i'm telling you i thought it was my pipe so we didn't flush the toilet or nothing there's something

happens and i asked the guy and he said that all if you live up on a hill he said that whoever's in the canyon below there that there's vents that go up through a house from the from the sewage and that but i've never smelled it good god it's like faster i've never i've never smelled it this bad i'm sorry i don't know what Bastard take a third or what? I've never smelled it this bad. I'm sorry. I don't know what's going on. Is this why I don't do interviews at this time of night? I'm evil. How am I evil?

You're not evil. You're just bad. No. But look, I think that you've struggled. Yeah, I've definitely struggled. I don't think you're any goddamn saint. I'm most certainly not a saint. Maybe not bad in the same way I am.

We all have our demons. Yeah. We all have our demons. I know that. All right, so you're wrestling. You're playing football. There are no cliques in your high school. Yes.

You're at a private school. You get good grades. But I didn't get in any college, so I went to Purdue. And, you know, this is such a suburban struggle. It was like I didn't get in the college I wanted. Yeah. Were your parents disappointed? What about your brothers and sisters?

My parents went to Georgetown University. They had a dog named Hoya and I didn't get in. My brother, my Irish twin who was like 20 months older than me, was in Georgetown and I didn't get in. Why didn't you get in? Why wouldn't they let you in? I don't know. I think I'm dumb. But I transferred in. After a year at Purdue? Yeah. Now Georgetown, that's a good school.

It is a good school. Where is that, in D.C.? Yeah, it's a much better school now than it was then. And you went all the way through? Yeah. Finished it up? Graduated. You played football at Georgetown? For a year. Yeah. And then? Yeah. Finished it up? Graduated. You played football at Georgetown? For a year. Yeah. And then I quit.

Was it too much? You know, it's just depressing when you'd see people going to parties and you'd be like going to practice. Yeah. Oh, so it was a practical thing. Social. Cut into your social life. Yeah. You could be drinking.

I would have nightmares. I'm like, I gotta go to practice tomorrow? have nightmares i'm like i gotta go to practice tomorrow and i woke up and i quit and i remember the guy who uh you know i had to tell these coaches and this one coach was like you're just you're gonna quit everything you're gonna quit your life you're gonna quit your wife and i'm like i don't care i'm still quitting he was eating like a big sandwich at the time he was like a monster but you know he was trying to intimid big sandwich at the time he was like a monster but you know he was trying to intimidate you and just yeah but I think that was one of those moments you know did you immediately know you wanted to do comedy and you're like all right

I'm gonna because it's much more it was much more of an insane pursuit something about it for me it was weird because you know I did a little in college. And after my sophomore year, I did open mics. And I was trying to do it. And I just couldn't hack it. I had done a little bit with another guy, a team thing. And I always had the bug. That man was Bruce Filanch, right?

Yes, it was. No, Steve Brill. But I couldn't hack it on my on my own at first like i was drinking a lot that summer and i was waiting around doing open mics and was brutal because they only had this was in new mexico in boston boston because i went to bu and then i kind of put it on hold until i graduated but right when i got out of college you know i can't went home for three months and i went to the i went and got a job at the comedy store i mean i i didn't think of it as unreasonable i i was never taught any sort of sense of value or values growing up i i never was i was not moving towards a job i didn't think in terms of a job i always thought in terms of creative pursuits when i was in college i did photography i wrote plays i wrote for the I never, never ever thought about anything practical.

Right. It was not the way I was brought up. Were you brought up that way? I was brought up very much to seek security. Right. That security was a coat and tie. Would have loved to have had more of that. And.

I was like, I was a wild, wild, insecure animal that was released with no sense of responsibility. But isn't your dad a doctor or something like that? Yeah. Which means what? Never home. Was not that engaged in the upbringing. Occasionally came around to sort of establish power and threaten and make me feel weird. But that's all dads of that era my dad would come home and

i'd be like who is that guy yeah and you're like hi like that's some of my acting was initial acting was acting excited to see this stranger well i liked my dad he was a charismatic guy and a little nutty but uh but i just i know like when i look back on it but you said your mother must have been some some stabilizing loving force yes very much so and i think that she uh and and humor was a very important thing making her laugh was an important thing among the siblings and why because she was like you knew that you were wearing her out? Well, I think it was just a difficult task. So humor was something you give someone that it was, you know, it didn't cost anything. And also doing an impression of my dad for my siblings was an important element.

It served a purpose. Where they're like, all right, maybe we won't beat him or take his food. At that time, I was not a competitor for food. Yeah, right, right. You know? Yeah, you're the funny guy. Yeah. You took some steam, released some steam.

Yes. All right, so, but you go to school, and you go for what? I studied finance. But did you really study it, or were you just kind of biding your time? I was biding my time. But I was, yeah, all my siblings who had gone before me studied like international terrorism. Before there was terrorism, by the way. This was like Bass Separatists that my brother Mike studied.

And, you know, they graduated and they couldn't find jobs. So my dad was very much with me and my older brother, who's right above me. He was like, you guys should study finance or accounting. And strongly encouraged it. And I was told that if you do that, then you'll be happy, and you'll get a good job, and then you'll enjoy that job, and then you'll play golf for five years, and you'll die. And so it's- That was how you laid it out?

I did that. I remember the night before I graduated from college, I was saying to a friend of mine, I was like, gosh, you know, I, cause we all had jobs and I was like, gosh, you know, all I really want to do is be a comedian. Yeah. But I'm like, I'm sure everyone wants to do that. And she was like, no, not everyone wants to do that. I'm like, everyone wants to do that.

And she looked at me like, nobody wants to do that. Right. And so. What, what inspired you to do that, though? When was this? While you were in college? This is the night before I graduated. But how did you get your mind into comedy?

Who had you seen? Because I had worked as a doorman at a place called the Comedy Stop in Washington, D.C. So that was just a job you sought out? It was right near my apartment. And they were looking for somebody, or you went to look for it? Me and my roommates all were doormen there, where we would seat people.

Because you loved comedy, or just because that was a gig? No, it was just a gig. Okay. But I had also hosted a talent show, which was called Cabaret, with a friend of mine my senior year, which hosted a talent show, which was called Cabaret, with a friend of mine my senior year. It was a talent show, but it was a big deal where everyone would dress in tuxes.

And I hosted that. And that was very rewarding, even though I did it. When I did it, I was just completely drunk the entire time. Did you do bits? Yeah, I did bits. Kind of school-specific bits. So you had not done any stand-up yet? No. Okay, this was like, right, you were the funny guy and you...

I was the guy that people would... Like, there was a guy who actually ended up being an agent at ICM, and he used to get me stoned just so that I would be funny for him. He'd be like, let's get Gaffigan stoned. And so then he would get me high and then I would just kind of start rambling. Getting a dog or a cat high.

It's like when you give a let's give a dog some hot salsa and see how it reacts. Have you ever done that? No. It's pretty amazing. What does he do? Oh, it's, you know, no it's pretty amazing what does he do oh it's you know because the dog you know they freak out they freak out but they don't they can't figure out what it is right that's like you don't you don't torture the dog but it's just like this is very strange yeah they start hitting their nose like yeah wait a minute so you torture the dog and then they go

back and they eat more yeah so you're working the door at that place and you're and you're seeing who like are you is that where you start to get the bug kind of i i don't think i don't think that gave me the bug i think that demystified it a little bit for me right like you oh you saw it as a job that could be done yes right where i saw um pat paulson yeah running for president yes uh-huh um again yes uh so you know different comedians i think it was maybe a six-month job did no one made an impact on you really i mean i have a horrible memory yeah but you would know like if you're like that guy's good yeah there were people that were good

yeah you probably still you probably work with them now yeah I'm sure that you know I you know Bobby Collins

probably went through there Bobby Collins you know or Richard Jenny I don't know there was but it was it's interesting though

you don't have specific memories of the comic I don't I just have a uh a general memory of like you know i could do this yeah and so but of course i didn't do it well no but you were still in school yeah but well obviously you did you find them entertaining or were you just sitting there going some of them a lot of them know right so you're like i can't believe this guy a lot of them no you know no. So you're like, I can't believe this guy. A lot of them, no. Yeah.

No, I know. Believe me, I know. How am I not going to know that? Why are they laughing? Yeah, why are they laughing? And some of it was just, I just saw confidence on the stage. Right. And so I was, yeah, I was pretty impressed by their confidence.

Right. So you graduate. Yeah. And you want to do comedy at that point but what do you end up doing i'm a consultant and i uh go to tampa and then i how long were you in tampa for a year oh and i'm a pale guy who doesn't like the outdoors and i remember i uh i went there and one of the first... I used to always tell people this. I was at a bar and I was talking to somebody about politics. And some guy said, I said, well, why aren't you going to watch... Why aren't you going to vote for Dukakis?

This shows you how old I am. Yeah. And the guy goes, because he's going to let everyone out of jail. And he said it without any irony. And I was like, you know that's not true. And he guy goes, because he's going to let everyone out of jail. And he said it without any irony. And I was like, you know that's not true. And he was like, well. And I was like, oh, all right. So, you know, but there's nothing wrong with Tampa.

It's just not right for me. You know what I mean? And so then. Yeah, it's kind of the Wild West down there, man. You know, it's an interesting place. Yeah. And so then I went to New York and got an advertising job. But I remember having, like, I wrote a Miami Vice episode when I was in Tampa because I wanted to get into entertainment.

And I remember having a little microcassette recorder where I would record ideas. quarter where I would record ideas but I remember saying if I don't find out what I'm gonna do I'm ending this because I had done everything that you know culturally I was supposed to do not culturally but so your dad wanted you to do I had studied hard I had gone to college I had studied the security thing I had gotten the job that was decent money and I was miserable and I sucked at it so at that point i was like you know i just don't know what i'm gonna do and so when i got to new york i worked in advertising and um did an improv class because of a fear of stage fright where at the national improvisational theater which was uh pre-UCB. Yeah, yeah.

I don't even know what... I don't even remember that place. And these got... This was all run by Scientologists. Did you know that going in? I... You know, they were very nice about it. They didn't really push it that much. Why were they running an improv class?

I don't know. I don't know. And... Looking for vulnerable people? No, I think they were just artists that ended up... You know, it's like there's tons of actors that are Scientologists. I get it, but there's got to be a, okay. And so. How'd you find that out?

Because my mother died while I was doing improv, and they're like, you should take a class. And I was like, all right, so I took a class. For grief? I think it was, look, when you lose someone, you just look you know you don't know where you're going and that's when they said it well i don't look i don't want to present it as malicious that's what made them malicious i'm not saying it's malicious you don't have to be diplomatic i'm just saying that they saw you were vulnerable you were upset you were hurt yeah and they were like, maybe you should take a class. Maybe this would help you.

Yeah. Yeah. And then when I was doing improv, this guy that was doing the improv classes with me dared me to do stand-up, and that's what I needed. I needed someone to say, come on, let's do this. Yeah. And so I did this stand-up workshop thing and did it that night. You remember where that was?

That was at 55 Grove. But I think at that time it was called the Duplex. Oh, yeah. They had shows there. Yeah. And they had a picture of Woody Allen up there and Joan Rivers. I think it was... It was kind of a gay club, right?

Later on it became sort of a burlesque sort of... It was like a piano bar. Right, right, right. It was definitely of a gay club, right? Later on, it became sort of a burlesque sort of. It was like a piano bar. Right, right, right. It was definitely a piano bar. But it was. I think they had an upstairs, right? Yeah, it was upstairs. Right.

It was the showroom. Right. I've done a show there. So I remember it was the first time I did it. And it was amazing. Yeah. It was amazing. You were like, thank God I'm here.

I was like, I finally found out what I want to do. Yeah. It was amazing. You were like, thank God I'm here. I was like, I finally found out what I want to do. Yeah. And then I bombed for the next four years. No. Not completely, but I definitely, I feel like it takes me longer to figure things out. But yeah, there was no spots to be had in the city. I remember when, what year was that? Because I remember when you started and I remember when I started to see you, you were

kind of like, I remember you sort of tucked your shirt in a lot. Yeah. And you were kind of heavy, and your hair was bushier. Yeah. And you were a little sweaty, and you always seemed kind of miserable. Yeah, no, I was very miserable. Yeah. Very miserable.

Well, you know know i always describe it because you know i started with giraldo yeah and giraldo and i met he was also chubby and sweaty and we were both wearing suits yeah he was a lawyer and i was an advertising guy i switched to copywriting but um that's a little creative isn't it it was it was a little creative i mean a little yeah but did you ever nail any campaigns yeah i mean i worked on some campaigns but it's there's something about stand-up comedy where we're spoiled by the the lack of hierarchy and bureaucracy right where um you know in advertising there's a lot of it there There's so many good comedians.

Like, when I started, here's how I viewed it. What year was it again? Maybe 91? 92. And the way I viewed it, there was me and Geraldo and Judah, and then the new group, which was Atel, you, Todd Berry, Louie, Jeff Ross. Just a couple years ahead of you. And then above them.

The old guys. Was the old guys. Yeah. So you guys would be getting spots and slowly chipping away at these spots. So Geraldo and I started driving out to Long Island. But, so Geraldo and I started driving out to Long Island, and then sometimes I would go to the, what was it called? The Comedy Tree in Connecticut? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The Treehouse.

The Treehouse in Connecticut. So you guys, oh, so you spent a lot of time with Greg. Yeah. How sad was that? It's horrible. It's amazing. I couldn't believe it. I just couldn't fucking believe it.

It's really... So smart and so funny, but couldn't believe it i just couldn't fucking believe it it's really uh so so smart and so funny but couldn't get a handle on that shit well it's it's also you know i'm sure the people kind of view it as oh well that's uh you know that's you know he was kind of a rock and roll comedian but when i met him he was not like that no he was not and um He's like a hardworking, really intelligent guy. Yeah. And some of it is, you know, I don't know. But what people don't realize is it's the repeated amount of rejection. Like, you think you reach a threshold where you're like, I did Letterman.

Yeah. Now everything's okay. Yeah. where you're like, I did Letterman. Yeah. Now everything's okay. Yeah. But there's something about stand-up where you get,

the entertainment industry in general, you get either too much praise. Too soon. Or none. Right. So you're either kind of, it's kind of a real repeated abusive situation. It's like, come here, come here, smack. Yeah.

Come here, come here, smack. And so I witnessed Greg, you know, Comedy Central deal after Comedy Central deal after Comedy Central deal. And he was somebody who had an enormous amount of success in his life. He, I mean, he had great interpersonal skills. He got me on. We would go to Long Island and these Long Island guys would be like, we're not putting on the doughy white guy. Yeah. And Greg would be like, he's a friend of mine.

Yeah. Because Greg was from Queens. He could deal with these guys. And so he had all the skills. You know, he went to Harvard Law. He had every situation. He could talk. But there is, and stand-up is a bit of a meritocracy, but the entertainment industry is not.

Right. So, you know, it's why you remember me as miserable. Yeah. It's like, I can't believe I can't pass at the comic strip. Right. And so, Greg was fine with that stuff. He could work that. But the rejection of things that used to work, I mean, things that that should work but just the bureaucracy of television

i think it really took a toll on him yeah yeah it's gonna something's gonna take a toll on you yeah and you know and he was he just he tried to get a handle on it and it's a it's a sickness you know it's hard you know but like when you were wandering around though were you depressed oh yeah i think so. Yeah. I think there's something about, you know, a low grade. I mean, my depression kind of displays itself in anger. Yeah.

Sound familiar? Sure. Were you a rager, though? I think, you know, it's like I was irish catholic so it was a temper yeah but it's just uh you know um you know the anger didn't match the crime that's where that's where it was yeah that's where i could see it and go oh all right and so so there's some chemical stuff there but there's i think there's also something we're all crazy like uh comedians and we're control freaks and there's elements that we can control and stand up and there's elements we can't control and uh i never thought myself as a control freak but i

guess like you know when you're on stage that's your thing right yeah i mean we got the microphone yeah right and we have our bag of tricks yeah and so there is something about you know but you know it's not set up where you know gaining the approval of a comedy club or a theater yeah and then getting all that praise and then shutting it down and then going to our bedroom right or our hotel room yeah it's like i mean i'd like to see you know even the most well-adjusted tom hanks version yeah of uh a human being be able to pull oh yeah to do irvine to do like we did like what 15 000 16 000 people i got on my toyota right and i drove back here and i had some cereal. Right. It's bizarre. Right.

And I think for me, it's like one of the things I've learned is that I think I'm above, you know, I intellectually can go, well, you know, I figured this stuff out. But you have to repeatedly learn it. You have to sit there and go, you know what? You are jealous. You are jealous of this situation. You know what? You are jealous. You are jealous of this situation. You know what? You are in a vulnerable situation. You know, like the oddball thing, it's fun, but it's also, I'm spoiled because I go and

I do these theater shows with my hand-picked opener. Yeah. So I don't have to worry about what I'm going to follow. I know what I'm going to follow. about what I'm going to follow. I know what I'm going to follow. And I think there's something great about that, but there's also something where you can get lazy.

So it was kind of fun. It was fun following Sarah, and it was fun following Bill Burr, but it's also, you know, like when that night that I followed Bill Burr, I'm like, wait a minute, he's, you know, he is like, you know, it's like, you know, this I'm like, wait a minute. He's, you know, he is like, you know, it's like, you know, this anger, like,

fuck that shit. Yeah. And then I'm going up there and going, you know what I mean? So I'm like, musically, this doesn't fit. Yeah, but you're Jim Gaffigan.

I know, but some of it is, you don't think that, I think there's, you know, I look back, I was completely impressed with you. I mean,

I got on my show and I talked about it. I know, I heard it. Yeah. I mean, I was like, you know, I look back. I was completely impressed with you. I mean, I got on my show and I talked about it. I know. I heard it. Yeah. I mean, I was like, you know, like I, you know, I know Bill. I know Sarah. I know everybody, but I don't get to see you work that much. I see them around a bit.

Yeah. So like seeing you, I come down off the mountain. Oh yeah. And just kind of lay it out with, uh, with, with your music and your, your sort of rhythm. I was like completely impressed. And I was talking to you backstage. You're rhythm, I was completely impressed. And I was talking to you backstage, you're like, I don't know. And I'm like, what don't you know?

You do this every night in front of thousands of people. Yeah. But I know, I mean, we're all like that. Yeah, we're all like that. Or, you know what? Actually, you and I are like that. I feel like I look at other people and they're like, yeah, who cares?

And I'm like, what? You don't care? But I think it's important to care. It's important. I think they're pretending, man. Really? Okay. Just around.

Yeah, I think. They got to be. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, I mean, there's not room for more than two of us walking around going like, oh, man. What's going to happen out there? Is that lighting right? walking around going like, oh man,

what's going to happen out there? Is that lighting right? Are they going to be able to hear with the mic? But there is, I mean, the lessons of comedy, it's so great because, you know,

having young kids and seeing just the battlefield of childhood, I mean, it's insane. And my kids are very nice and they have friends and everything. What are the ages? But it's terrifying. 10, 8, 5, it's insane. And my kids are very nice and they have friends and everything. What are the ages?

It's terrifying. 10, 8, 5, 3, 2. So just, you know, dropping my kids off at soccer camp, my older ones. And I brought my three-year-old. And I turn around and some kid's bullying. Some eight-year-old is bullying a three-year-old. And I had to hold myself back from punching this kid. I was like, do not

ever think. It's like, you might, and I do this, my wife thinks I'm crazy. If anyone's ever rude to my kid, I go right up to them and I go, what are you doing? What are you doing? And she's like, Jim, you look crazy. I'm like, I don't care. Maybe my kid will see my dad

is crazy, but he's got my back he's right you know so it's how do kids respond to that i grabbed this kid and i tried i tried not to squeeze his i grabbed him what was he doing he my three-year-old was wearing a baseball cap and three-year-olds they're like orangutans right they don't know what they're doing yeah and so he flipped it off and he and he was kind of like pointing it at my son so i grabbed him by the arm and i was like you're coming with me so i went to find a camp counselor it's a soccer camp yeah and the soccer king the guy it's just like this summer manhattan soccer camp it's nothing fancy yeah this guy's like you know this beats working being a janitor right i said this guy was bullying uh the my three-year-old son and he looked at me

like i don't care i really don't care and i was like all right well at least i did the right thing you know it would have been hilarious if he just bullied you so what's the problem yeah so what's the problem, pussy? When did you meet Jeannie? I met her in, I guess, 99, 2000? I don't think I had confidence until I was in my 30s. Real confidence. Real confidence. Real confidence where... We got to fake it for a while.

It's where, you know, this is a beautiful woman. I'm going to talk to her. She might want to talk to me. Before that, I was just like, glug, glug, glug. You know? Yeah.

So, yeah. But I think by then, I had some confidence and I had dated some attractive women. So I was not intimidated that she was beautiful or a strong woman or anything like that. So, yeah. And she turned out to be the best thing for you in the world. I think so.

I mean, it's pretty amazing. I mean, you know, I talk about her being my writing partner. That took a while. That took a while. And it's very counterintuitive, right? Like, you've had many girlfriends yeah how often do you sit there you know you know i'm gonna write with her it's never the equation you guys were kind of writing together before you really were public about it

i i would say there was some uh she definitely was kind of coaching me in my acting and did she come from that yeah yeah she has like a master's degree in theater and all that uh-huh and um so and she'd done sketch comedy and she'd done some stand right and so she knew the comedy world but you know comedian to a comedian giving you a tag you're always kind of like polite thanks yeah even though you thought of it right right and so i assume that would be the relationship with her and um but it became very much uh you know there was great insights and then there was her you know we would have debates on where a joke would go or the value of doing it this way versus that way and so eventually it came to a point where i was like yeah you know

she's definitely my writing partner i mean i definitely have the final say right it's not like i'm you know i'm doing this 10 minutes because my wife made me do it you know it's not that but it's there's also something about uh in this business it's i don't care about the credit i i care about the product. You know what I mean? So occasionally on Twitter, people will be like, did your wife write that joke? I'm like, I don't give a shit.

It's like, if you really think that, that's fine. But it's a pretty good collaboration. Well, it seems like it. Yeah. I don't think you'll mess it up. You're too far in. Far too deep. That's right.

But now, what's interesting to me is, you come from this background where there was a premium put on security, on working, and your work ethic. And more than most comics, you seem to have, over time, fairly, seemingly deliberately, figured out a way to to really uh you know find

your audience and and it's a big audience and you're you're you've never been sort of um you know ashamed or or or or or thought about uh like that doing commercials was a bad thing or that doing any of that stuff i mean it seems like your work ethic is is one that seeks security that you know that you were confident enough in who you were and your style and what was funny about you that you weren't like yeah i'm not doing that yeah i mean it's it's yeah i mean i definitely kept my day job longer but some of it was for creative reasons. Like I kept my day job so that I wouldn't have to go and do a bar show in New Jersey, or I wouldn't have to take,

cause Geraldo quit his job pretty early. And so I would see him go and do these wrestling match shows, you know? And, um, um, yeah, no,

I think that there was some, some unconscious, uh, search, no, I think that there was some unconscious search of security, but no one going into stand-up. I definitely got to a point where I was like, all right, because, you know, I never imagined I would be married. I was like, I came to a conclusion, all right, I'm going to be the weird uncle that lives in a small, filthy apartment in Manhattan. That your brother insists to bring the nieces and nephews over to see the bathtub in the kitchen right and and that um and i had gone through and been rejected by all these festivals for you know i'd been doing stand-up all my everyone all you guys and giraldo and ian bagg had all done conan and uh all these late night shows and i had been rejected by all of them so i had gone through all this anger and i had gotten to a point where all right i'm doing this because i

love doing it i'm uh i'm maybe i'm gonna be able to make a living combining the commercials and stand up but i don't like giraldo wanted. I never imagined, I didn't really see, like, wanting to headline. That wasn't my goal. I know it sounds like, you know, the actor that's like, I just wanted to do community theater. What did you want to do? I wanted to be a writer on Letterman. I wanted to be a writer on Letterman or, you know, my goal really was to do stand-up on Letterman. you know my goal really was to do stand-up on letterman that was if i could do stand-up on letterman then all this all these years he's indicated yeah yeah and i and because you know

back then it was if someone found out you're a comedian they'd say have you been on any shows right you need the validation yeah so you were actually doing some acting work before you know you really broke as a comic yeah there was plenty of times when people thought that i was i did a movie with dennis leary and he didn't know as a comedian so that hurts it's you know in some ways i didn't care in some ways yeah no but it wasn't you know i mean that was 20 years ago no no i know i know but i'm just trying to see like because what i was saying is basically that once you did realize your stand-up and once you built a business around your stand-up, and that's including television projects and doing like Three Kings

and showing up in movies and commercials, that I think because of your wife and your family, that your values were very specific you know i've got a family to feed right and and i think that you know when i see your output and how you know diligently you are with with releasing cds dvds and now the book market seems to be good for you and then kind of pushing forward and becoming like you know a theater act almost exclusively uh i have to assume that some of that is you know thankfully you know driven a theater act almost exclusively, I have to assume that some of that is, you know, thankfully, you know, driven by your family responsibilities.

I think, yeah. I think fear as a motivator is pretty important. But you're very, you know, you're very hard. But I like working. I like writing. No, no, I know. But I mean, yeah. And the thing is that, you know,

usually you'd be saying this stuff about, you know, somebody who would do anything, but you don't. You're very specific. And, you know, do you remember when you started to break or how it happened um gosh because there's there's important moments where you know uh getting on dr cats was like huge sure i yeah i remember that yeah those were all great but that was sort of, I want to be one of the guys moments. Well, it was, yeah, that was, I want to be one of the guys. But it was beyond the pale. It was Comedy Central.

I had done a half hour. Geraldo and I did it the same night. And then Geraldo had done three more half, or two more half hours. And I couldn't get arrested at comedy central and then my manager um was with uh uh the same management company that handled the blue collar guys right and comedy central was like you want any more hours and my manager was like what about jim gaffigan and so it was like a different person. So like this hierarchy at Comedy Central, someone else had bought an hour from me. So the Beyond the Pale got on Comedy Central and that changed everything.

It did. That completely changed everything. So the Hot Pockets joke was on there. When I had done my half hour, they didn't use Hot Pockets. Thank God. In my hour. And Beyond the Pale, they didn't have tons of hours of stand-up, and they could air it at any time. So, it just, they aired the hell out of it, and it just served as an infomercial.

And so, that turned me into a theater. It took like six months after it started airing. But, yeah, it was all Beyond the Pale that really did it. And then, you know, I think combined with a lot of acting roles, so people were like, oh, he was from, you know, had that part in Sex and the City or had that part in this movie. Right. And they had all sort of, you became a guy that was across all their mediums.

It was just a, you know, we could sell 800 tickets in a theater. Right. you know we could sell 800 tickets in the theater right so but but but what's also significant is that you know you're dealing i think what was probably comedy central's issue was that your comedy was was in it's sort of timeless but it's also sort of grown up and you know in a way i would assume that your audience was primarily adults or people your age-ish. You know, it's weird because I don't, you know, like, because it's like I'm doing this show for, that's going to be on TV Land and Comedy Central. And that's the first instinct. Everyone's like, yeah, you know, 50-year-olds like 40-year-olds like this stand-up.

But that's not the case. Now, 50-year-olds like 40-year-olds like this stand-up, but that's not the case. The case is that 20-year-olds and 40-year-olds like it. And so, at my shows- And they can go together. No, no, no. No, no, no, seriously. No, but the thing is, so Comedy Central, TV Land was just going to do it. Right.

And then it was presented as, well, Comedy Central might be 18 to 25 or whatever the demographics are. But those are the people that are watching my special on Comedy Central. Right. So I don't know what I'm trying to say here. You're just saying your audience is... People think it's people like you, Jim, with kids. But you look at people that go to comedy shows. They're not people that have young kids. But you look at people that go to comedy shows, they're not people that have young kids.

Right. I guess what I'm saying is that you are the kind of act that a dad could bring his kid to. You're also the kind of act that a son could bring his dad to. And also a kid who could bring his girlfriend to and not feel embarrassed. Right. And I don't want to say family act, i mean but you know your your humor is universal and your craft is solid and it's not you know and i don't think you're uh like i don't think you're without risk you know i think that your character is is clearly

has darkness to it and their struggle there yeah but you know you're fairly calculating in that you know whether you want to be clean or not you you don't find it necessary to not do that. And it's a smart choice. Well, here's how I kind of describe it is I think that comedians get too much credit and too much criticism for the type of standup they do anyway. Right. So people must be like, you're so honest, Mark. Yeah.

But in a lot of ways, that's the only stand-up you would do. Yeah, I can't do it any other way. So it's not to say that I don't curse in everyday life, but if I'm writing a joke and rewriting it, it's not necessary to curse if I'm talking about steak. You know? So the whole thing is that it's, you know, look, I'm not'm not somebody who would like you might go on stage in front of a room full of strangers and say fuck you all motherfuckers but i'm kind of like there's a little bit of the midwestern where i'm like well i'm not i don't want to curse there's someone's grandma right there so and it took me a while to realize that that also has to do with writing my

writing process is all you know improvisational so think that when, because you're very meticulous. But I'm improvising on stage a lot. Right. But there's, you know, it's weird. But you know where your beats are. I know. Well, there is something about, you can't do this for 15, 20 years. Yeah.

And not start writing on stage. Of course. And so there is something about um i'm just saying that when you know where your beats are like the idea that you know when you're working a joke about steak and you've structured your beats you don't have to say fucking steak yeah if i'm just on stage and i just say the steak i'm like god fucking steak i'm gonna do that well it's it's authentic for you right it's authentic for chris rock it's authentic for lewis black right but it's it's it's weird because you know brian regan it's it's you know it's like

a you know we both said the same thing in the interviews it's like our favorite comedians are filthy yeah but it's it's not it's not like one of those things where Jesus told me to not curse. It's just kind of, and I really do, it's how the stand-up comes out. Yeah. And, you know, David Cross can only do that type of comedy. Right. He could do a character of a different type of comedy. And some of it is finding your point of view and your voice.

When did you first start doing the second voice? The second voice was something that was, it was kind of, it was part of my personality as a teenager where I would talk to somebody and it would just diffuse the situation. I can't believe Jim's sitting in my garage. I hope Jim doesn't want this to come out when his book's published. I'm going to fuck him by not releasing it then. But so some of it is, it's a great tool for diffusing any awkwardness. Right, right.

It's an awareness. Right. But I didn't do it the first six years I did stand-up. Right, right. I remember I started doing it in D.C. at the D.C. Improv when I was in the middle before a tell. And a tell would make fun of me. He's like, oh, really?

You're going to do this? Okay, Grandpa. Yeah. And so it was kind of something where I used to also think I'm just talking so that when I'm on at the cellar at one in the morning, I don't give them time to say anything. Right. It's like all comment.

Yeah. All right. Don't worry. Just relax. I know I'm talking about bacon for too long. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. So it's, but we all have voices in our head. Yeah. It's just giving them a platform. I just recently started doing this blogger that where, I don't know if I did it the night you saw me, where I say I have an inner blogger that's reviewing my show as it's going along.

Yeah. Yeah. Marin started off strong, but now he seems to have taken, he sort of sidetracked. He thinks this joke's real smart, but it's not smart at all. Yeah, exactly. We all have this inner. Yeah. And you know, New York comedy, I mean, you look at, like, Johnny Carson used to comment

on his jokes. Yeah. But when we were in New York at that point, when it was really kind of... I'm not going to say it was hand-to-hand combat. Right. But if you showed vulnerability, it was weakness by the audience. There's a good reason why, you know, Kevin Brennan, Louis C.K., Dave Attell, you know, there is a deadpan in how they deliver things.

Right. You know, Todd Berry. It's because if you show the happy, sweet, kind of like, hi, I'm a lovable, you will get eaten alive. In New York. And that's considered weakness. Right. And I think it's changed a lot.

Well, no, I think the comedy has opened up a bit. So that was your way of being vulnerable. In a way. I think so. And being weird. Yeah, but it was it became completely a defining part of your voice. Yeah. And did you know it when you did it first?

Were you like, I got something with this? No. Well, I thought it was a great opportunity to come up with additional tags from a different point of view. Right. So I was like, I can get a couple more jokes in here. Yeah. I can, you know, there's not going to be a crazy Christian woman in this audience who's judging this, but they will enjoy this point of view. Right.

Right. So, yeah, there was some of. Yeah, because it's a great. audience who's judging this but they will enjoy this point of view right right so uh yeah there was some of yeah because it's a great uh but you know it would whiff every now and then what does that mean that it means i i would do it and people would just be like this is just stupid right so when i did my initial comedy central half hour yeah i i chickened out and I didn't do it at all. Really? Yeah. So I had been doing it for like a year and then.

Would you have like a bad night when you were running it? I think I, yeah. I think, you know, it was probably 50-50 or maybe it was probably 80-20, but I was like, you know what? This is a TV special. I don't want to risk it. Uh-huh. And, but beyond the pale, you were like, you got to like you gotta do it yeah yeah and that was the defining moment and but you've been very diligent about what he put out a new album every year no i'd say every uh two years and now the

book thing is your with the book you're out you got coming out now is the second book second book second book second book that then feels like it was right on top of the other one. Yeah. Well, this is a food book and I feel like I've been writing about food for 20 years anyway. It's kind of, you know, half of the book was compiling it into essays and half of it was kernels of ideas or tweets that, you know, were topics. Is that your demon? Food? Yeah.

I think that's the one that people see. Yeah. You know? What do topics. Is that your demon? Food? Yeah. I think that's the one that people see. Yeah. You know? What do you got? What other ones? Oh, look, I'm going to tell you. No, I've got a lot of demons. I think that, you know, I think that...

You don't drink anymore? No, I drink occasionally. I went through five or six years where I didn't drink at all, where I was like, I really want to get on top of this. But my demons, I have a fair amount of them. I think that jealousy is still a strange thing. That's all insecurity stuff. It's all insecurity. thing but that's all insecurity stuff it's all insecurity but i think that stand-up comedy is uh you know the opportunity like i don't know if you encountered this it's pretty common you know

it's like i'm kind of grumpy i do a set it's it's it's you know the endorphins flow yeah right there's nothing that right and i don't care where it is. That's one of the things that I learned. I know that it's cooler to do a show at the cellar or at a certain place, but I just care about getting up on stage. And I think it's important to be able to make a lot of different types of people laugh. Absolutely. Particularly people that look at you like, I don't think I'm going to like you. Or don't know you.

Winning them over is really fun. Getting the people that are like, you know, because now I'm in this weird place where, you know, usually if I do a club, I can sell it out, but there's still going to be a good quarter to a third of the people, they're just there for comedy. Right. And them going like, yeah, I didn't know you at all.

Yeah, yeah. Then it's like, that's it. Yeah. That's the best. Yeah. Because that's your job. Yeah. You just entertained a stranger. Well, that's the best because that's your job yeah you just entertained a stranger well that's

the valid and that's what i realized looking back on uh you know the oddball thing maybe louis made reference to this but that's why he did it is because he's at such a level of fame that if he follows bill burr who's crushing it is a true serum for his act right now i don't know if that's you know the balancing act is i think people are funniest when they're most comfortable but there's also a belief that people you know a lot of humor comes out of you know situations of fear like i have to i have to do well or i will die a miserable death in front of right no i mean that's weird because i the you know like i will beat the shit out of myself yeah in that moment and have to transcend i have to transcend that on top of do well like

for me it's like i don't ever go out there with the warrior spirit like i'm gonna fucking kill it it's just sort of like oh god damn it right it's not getting don't ever go out there with a warrior spirit like, I'm going to fucking kill it. It's just sort of like, oh, God damn it. Right. It's not getting in our own way. I mean, I remember one time I asked Seinfeld, I was like, what do you do when you follow someone who's really filthy? And he goes, it doesn't affect me at all. And I'm sitting there going, what? You know, because I believe stand-up is very much a conversation.

Yeah. And our point of view and our relationship, it's, you know, there's, you know, you can be a tell who's kind of the formula. My jokes are so funny. I don't care if you like me or not. But I think it's this long conversation. And some of it is I'm selfish. The more comfortable I feel, the funnier I'm going to feel.

Absolutely. And if I come up with a line during a show, I will love you forever. Exactly. You know what I mean? And it'll be better for them. So I don't know if I, you know, I appreciate the fact that I grew up doing stand-up in front of audiences that you would just see those dead eyes you know yeah i mean pre-obama just tables of african-americans turning away from you because you were the wrong

color right but um and i think it did you know there is uh some calluses that are important for making you an authentic comic but i think being in front of a warm audience is pretty good. Well, it's great. And I'm just experiencing it for the first time because you can be truly comfortable. And that's where shit happens. And that's where... Because you've got 20 years of fucking craft under your belt. And if you don't have to fight, something's going to happen.

And that's where... I mean, I think... I know I've said authenticity, but if you can go up there and be authentically funny where they know you're just making it up yeah that's that's it that's gold that's crack that's gold and then you can go into like you know all right let's start hitting some pop flies for you people you know so all right man well that's great so the book uh the new one's called food a love story and when's the show on it's uh the show's on in uh june all right that's when we'll put this up you're gonna wait that long no no kidding i'm gonna wait till after your show premieres

and then i'll go to my therapist and i'll say you know i feel kind of guilty i just you know i don't want him to succeed. No. You already won. All right. Well, thanks for talking to me, George. All right.

Thanks for having me. Appreciate it. That's it. That's our show. Jim's the best. It's hilarious. Go to WTFpod.com for all your WTFpod needs.

Check those tour dates. I'll be near you somewhere. All right, you can go to the calendar, and you can see all the dates and venues, and the links will be right there to buy tickets. You can get your JustCoffee.coop over there. You can leave comments on the comment board. You can do whatever you need.

Shit. God damn it. I want to thank... leave comments on the comment board. You can do whatever you need. Shit! God damn it. I want to thank the band Mae McDonough and Company. They're a great band. I enjoyed their record. But out of nowhere, they sent me this lovely handmade pedal. Handmade fuzz pedal. It's a Boomer Lives pedal with Boomer

on there and a psychedelic design and two knobs. One that says meow and one that says purr and it's just a fucking just a kind of a breaking apart fuzz number what does it sound like Boomer lives! You can get anything you need with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats. But iced tea and ice cream?

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