WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 589 - Michael Imperioli

Episode Date: March 29, 2015

Michael Imperioli leads a much different life from the one led by his iconic television character Christopher Moltisanti on The Sopranos. Michael and Marc talk about what it's like to have played a role that left such an indelible mark and how his career as a writer, director and actor has taken shape since the show's final episodes. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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What the fucking ears? What the fucksicles? How are you? I'm Mark Maron. This is WTF. Welcome to the show. Very excited today. Michael Imperioli, Christopher, is on the show. I don't know if he likes that, but that's what he's known for god damn it i miss

the sopranos do you ever sit down and just think to yourself fuck i miss the sopranos like back what can you say back in the day i don't know if it was back in the day but when they were on it was really the first kind of show of its kind where you just look forward to it it was like a craving you're like sunday nights'd lock in and just what's going to happen? I had no idea that was coming. That type of television, that sort of, I don't know if it's long form or serialized. I mean, there's nothing new about that. But just the fact that, like Breaking Bad that way too, that you enter every episode

not knowing what the fuck is going to happen. And also the great characters. And Michael Imperioli, he played a great character on that. He was great in Goodfellas, and he's great in his movie. He's great. He's a great guy, and I was thrilled to talk to him. Because he's one of those guys, the character was so defined on The Sopranos, where you think, I'm going to talk to that guy.

And he's not that guy. But it was great talking to him. It made me miss New York, you know. And I was just there. I didn't mention some stuff about New York. You know, as I go back, I finally got some good weather. I think I told you that. And I went down.

I lived there a long time. And on a nice day in New York City, there's really nothing that compares to it. There's nothing like New York. There's no comparing any other city or place or feeling to New York. Because it is of itself and it is amazing. Huge, spectacular, moving moving the best city and i was talking to some guy cab driver of all people because that's what you do in new york right but we're just talking about it about how nothing feels like new york you get in it and when you're in it you you you're

filled with the energy of it and if you know how to be there it's it's it's there's nothing more exciting just to walk in new york city on a beautiful day and i there was a couple of moments there you know i was walking and i was in between things i was there to to meet with people for a thing about a thing i had like two hours and i was just it was almost like fall weather and obviously i i went to joe's and i had the slice and or two maybe three but don't you know what i mean i can i was on on a trip and uh i was wandering around and i literally had nothing to do i was like why don't i have anything to do i'm in new York. Isn't there somebody I need to see? Isn't there someplace I need to go?

And I was like, no, man. You're just in New York. You're just here. So I went to a place that's near and dear to my heart. I went to the secret meeting place at Perry Street. And went back in time to the early days of the crazy clean time. Historical place, if you know what I'm talking about. Some of you do.

If you don't, if you're in the secret society, be sure to go to Perry Street when you're in New York City. It's a classic. It's an institution. It's old timey, man. But I was with my producer, Brendan McDonald, my business partner in this endeavor, WTF. And we were downtown and we were at a meeting. We went to a meeting about a thing. And we were right there at the World Trade Center, at the site and at the new building.

I had not seen the new building. And I had not seen the memorial. And I was there that day i was in queens on my roof uh feeling uh obliterated and and in shock and i don't think i'd been down to that site certainly not since it had been under construction and and maybe you know i i i'd gone down there weeks after the horror where it was just a a smoking pile of of steel mangled steel that you couldn't really get close to but you could see down the street and i remember there was a lot of talk about what the memorial would be what the new building would be and and uh everybody was you know chiming in about this or that so I had been really out of

the loop because I had left New York but I felt compelled and I felt like I needed to go see the memorial I had no idea what it was going to be like what what effect it would have, how it could be effective. And it was amazing. It's an amazing memorial. It's literally the bottoms of the original towers. There's two of these pieces to this memorial. And it's just a a giant square it's a hole and it's a waterfall on all four sides and then there's a pool at the bottom and then another square hole that you just it's just darkness that you can't see the bottom of and the water goes into it all

around the top are the names of the victims and there are two of these and they're massive and they're quiet and they're subtle and they're profound and they're moving. I didn't know how I would feel when I went down there, but to stand there and to have the reflection and to have to honor the dead and honor the memory of what happened there and the ongoing sort of heartache of that. You don't really realize that you have this heartache, this grief, until you check in. You check in with it. And there's something that was felt, obviously, around the world. But certainly, if you lived in New York, it was a profound injury. And as I stood there, I was like, you know, they did this right, man. You know, I am moved.

I am thinking back. I am elevated, and it was beautifully done, and it's something you should really see if you're in New York. No matter what you think about what happened, it happened, and people were killed that day and it was horrible but to really pay respect was no easy trick and I don't even know who designed this thing but to use the space of the of the of the towers that were once there and why they're gone and what that represents and to integrate into that space a sense of living grief and respect for everyone who was lost there was no easy trick, no easy task.

And it's a beautiful, beautiful piece of living memorial art. And the new tower is nice, got to be honest. I didn't go up in it, but it's nice. It's hard to be there, but I'm glad I did. It definitely had the effect of of of of bringing back something painful of of integrating the grief and of of elevating the loss and and and and sending it off and gay it was a little bit of closure there. It was profound. I had no idea. I didn't know what to expect.

You don't know how something like that's going to hit you. But obviously, you know, there were those of us who were there and it was, yeah, well, everyone knows. I'm not saying anything new. It was a tough day. But the memorial was spectacular and I appreciate it.

Also, a funny thing happened in NYC. I thought it was a classic thing. I was in a coffee shop having a coffee with Brendan and I was walking out and I knew some guy was looking at me like he'd give me that look, that look where it's sort of like, yeah, I know who you are and I like you, but I'm trying to be cool. Happens. I've me that look that look where it's sort of like yeah i know who you are and i and i like you but i'm trying to be cool happens i've had that look for others i'm familiar with the look from within and without and i'm walking out and he looks at me he goes and i look at him

and i'm like hey what's up buddy he goes hey hey mark hey mark uh yeah big fan i'm a big fan and he his brain got a little jangled there in the moment and i was saying well well thank you i'll nice meeting you asked him his name i don't remember now i'm sorry he told me his name and his brain got a little jangled there in the moment. And I was saying, well, well, thank you. Nice meeting you. I asked him his name. I don't remember now. I'm sorry. He told me his name and I'm walking down.

He goes, hey, hey, keep up the good luck. I mean, work, keep up the guy. Oh boy, I screwed it up. But keep up the good luck. That was a beautiful mistake. It was one of the greatest things I ever heard. I'm walking out of like, dude, that's a, that's, that's a shirt. That's what beautiful mistake. It was one of the greatest things I ever heard. I'm walking out. I'm like, dude, that's a shirt. That's what that is.

Keep up the good luck. I'm going to try, man. I've been trying all my life. Finally got a little run of it. But Jesus, folks, keep up the good luck if you can. If you got to run, go and keep up the good luck. I clean the garage, man. I like to say I do do it yearly but i hadn't done it in a while and i had to throw out a lot of stuff move some stuff out vacuum where does the dust come from i don't even have

the window open here what is dissolving what is eroding what is coming apart that causes so much dust is it just for me am i emanating dust do the guests i was it got to the point here well obviously i've been in production a lot and you know some of you have figured out that sometimes we record interviews and we don't um put them up right away but now it's like we got to get back on it and i was sitting in my garage i'm like i'm a little ashamed of this mess and it no longer has the kind of cluttered charm that the garage once had now it just looks cluttered there's just stacks of shit everywhere there's chaos there's a mess there's garbage there's dust and now i got it yeah i cleaned it up can breathe in here and now it's time to start entertaining

people again more frequently with pride in my cluttered shithole of a garage looks good though looks good i feel all right about it found some interesting stuff uh it's weird when you do the cleaning because like i was like i gotta do it i set my mind to it but then you end up just just watching your life slowly pass before your eyes as you go through piles and boxes you know looking at my high school diploma. Looking at stuff I wrote 10 years ago. Got a stack of fucking, like, week at a glances from 2001, 1999. I don't even know why I kept those. I think you had to keep them at some point for tax reasons.

Just looking at my schedule. That was sort of weird. Underneath an amplifier in here. Like a little amp. That's flush with the ground. It's flush with the floor of the garage. I picked it up and there was a fully preserved lizard skin. A lizard had shed his skin under there perfectly.

And I don't know how it got under there. Because it was almost pressed. I don't know. I don't know if it was magic, but I do know that a lizard shed his skin perfectly beneath an amplifier in my garage. And I've tried to do that.

I can only aspire to the perfectly shed skin. Right now, let's enjoy my conversation with Michael Imperioli. Spectacular. Great guy. You're just going to, I mean, if you're a fan, you're just going to love hearing his voice. I just loved listening to him for as long as we talked. All right.

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18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. Here we go. It's weird. I don't know. I guess I associate you with New York in my head. I was there forever until two years ago. Yeah?

Are you happy about it? You don't seem thrilled. No. No, I'm very happy. No, it was time for me to change. Yeah? Yeah. Where'd you go?

Santa Barbara. Right. So why Santa Barbara? You know, I didn't want to live in a big city anymore. Yeah? That was the thing. Yeah. I mean, New York is the greatest city in the world,

but if you don't want to live in a big city, you can't live there. Right. Well, you could have went upstate. I'm not really crazy about the suburbs in New York. But no, but further up, like the country, the Hudson Valley. I wanted something different. We were ready for something different. Do you live by the beach?

About a mile and a half. That's not bad. How long of a drive is that? An hour and a half. Well, thanks for coming down. Thanks for having me. It's weird because you're one of those guys that I feel like I've seen all my life. I feel familiar with you, but of course I'm not.

No, I feel the same about you. Is that true? We're not familiar with each other at all. No, we feel like we are, but in reality we're not, right? No, I don't know is that true we're not familiar with each other at all but no they're like we are but in reality we're not right well no i don't know i guess not i mean like i i uh because i it's hard when you do a role like you did on the sopranos for as long as you did it yeah for people not to have this fucking relationship with you of course and then like even you know when you played spider and all that stuff like when i was you know younger i feel like i was younger when i saw you how old are you uh almost 49 all right stuff. Like when I was younger. I feel like I was younger when I saw you. How old are you?

Almost 49. All right, so I'm 51. Not that big a difference. But I mean, I imagine that people come up to you all the time and they're like, hey, what's up? All the time. All the time, yeah. It's never going to go away. Probably not.

I fucking miss that show, buddy. Do you? It was a lot of fun. You know, I miss the camaraderie we had a you know i knew a lot of those guys even before the sopranos yeah from other jobs yeah some of them from acting school who i knew john ventimiglia who played the chef artie bucco oh yeah yeah he's in your movie he was in my i met him when i was 17 uh in acting school and we were roommates and then sharon angela who's also in my movie she's great

hungry ghost we went to act I know her since I was 19 really how old was she around the same age it's hard for me to get ages yeah but we you know some of those people in my class started working together in indie film and in theater and we started a company what school was it it was an offshoot of Lee Strasberg Institute. It was a woman named Elaine Aiken who started her own studio. Uh-huh. Alec Baldwin was in that class for a while. Yeah.

So it was one of those ones where everyone kind of gravitated around the personality of that woman, whoever that was. What's her name? Elaine Aiken. Elaine Aiken. Yeah, she died a number of years ago, but she was a great teacher. So you were part of that whole sort of New York acting thing, like going through that Yeah, we did that.

I took some classes with Stella Adler. You did? I was Brando's teacher. Right. She was still alive. I took some classes with her. How old were you? 17.

Yeah? And you just had to do that, right? I just said, you know, I finished high school and I wound up not going to college. Yeah. I kind of bailed the night before I was supposed to leave in September and just said I was going to go upstate to Albany. State school to SUNY? SUNY.

And I was like, you know, I want to be in the city. I want to be an actor. And that's what I did. But my teacher was really cool because she was like, look, you don't have to go to college, but if you want to be an actor and you want to be an artist, you have to really educate yourself and you have to learn about art. This was Elaine? Painting and music and literature.

She told you that? Yeah. Okay. And I went to museums with her and she turned me on to books. One-on-one? Sometimes, yeah. So this woman who was what, in her 70s? By then, she was probably in her late

60s maybe early 70s taking you around the 17 18 year old kid yeah to the museum of modern art and stuff to the met she was very generous you know that way and very um you know another kid who was in that class a guy named tom gilroy who's now a writer director he just had a movie called the cold lands that came out and he directed a movie called spring forward a number of years ago and he was an actor then and we started he started we produced a arthur miller play called incident at vichy that tom directed and i produced back in 88 i was like started producing when i was in my early 20s yeah and he started directing then he started writing so he started producing his stuff and a lot of the people who were in my movie were way back in the 80s we were doing this stuff.

But no, it's interesting to me. It's also interesting how, like when she would take you to museums and stuff, what did you learn? What did you put together at that time? Because where did you grow up? I grew up right outside of the city in Mount Vernon, New York.

And what was your family like? What did your old man do? He was a bus driver in the Bronx. Really? For 30 years, yeah. So he's a government job, right? City job, yeah. City job.

MTI. Guy's pension, retired. That's what he was gunning for the whole way, right? Semi-retired. He still works, but he gets a pension. What does he do? He drives a couple of doctors. Oh, like in the car.

Yeah, it's pretty mellow. They treat him really well. And your mom? My mom's retired. She was in the school. Yeah, it's pretty mellow. They treat him really well. And your mom? My mom's retired. She was in the school. She worked in a public school. So what'd she do, teaching? No, secretary.

And so you grew up working class, New York, Italian? Yeah. Very? Yeah, Italian, you know, third generation. Right. But very much that was my neighborhood and friends and stuff catholic yeah food lots of it good food good stuff well you won the the chop thing you know i was obsessed with shop for a long time i won the celebrity competition i had you know i've had uh conant

on here scott conant and i've had i didn't he wasn't on my episode i've had uh you know what's her name alex gurnicelli she was one of my judges she's tough man she was good to me though yeah she was really good to me who were you up against uh i was up the finalist was uh brandy chastain who was the the olympic women's soccer team yeah she was the chick who took off her shirt and then was wearing a sports bra that famous picture she was the final it took off her shirt and was wearing a sports bra, that famous picture. She was the final. It was me and her in the final.

Was she good? She was pretty good, yeah. Where'd you learn how to cook? You know, I worked in restaurants for many, many years in all aspects of the business. And I learned a little bit there, but then I really learned from doing it because my wife doesn't cook. So when we started having kids, we used to get takeout in New York from every restaurant because we were always on the go. And I started hating every, I just got sick of everything.

Stack of menus. Yeah, I just wanted home food, so I started learning stuff that I liked and still just keep, after 18 years of doing it, you start getting good. Yeah, but you got to have a feel for it. Yeah, I like to eat. But some people can't fucking do it. They can't cook. They just can't get it. I guess you have to have a little knack.

I think the key is you have to be able to conceive, conceptualize what you're cooking. That's exactly right. You've got to see the end. You've got to see the end and you get inspired by an ingredient. Yeah. Like where I live,

they have a great farmer's market on the weekend. Yeah. You go and you see what's in season, what looks good and then you're like, oh, I can make this.

Yeah. With this and- You love it, right? Oh, it's nice. Yeah. All right, so back to the museum. So you're hanging around

with this acting teacher. What's her name again, Elaine? Elaine Aiken, yeah. Famous. I think John Ventimiglia and I went with her when they had a- I remember in the lates, they had the Hermitage in Russia. They sent this big collection of a lot of the big impressionists,

like Van Gogh and Picasso and stuff, but stuff that had never been seen in the West for a long time. I don't think the... It was probably right before, still before the wall came down. Yeah. But somehow they had this exchange, so we went to see these paintings, and it really made it big. It was the first time I kind of understood what an artist did, you know? Yeah.

Well, what is he doing? He's not just painting what he sees. He's painting, he's interpreting what he sees through his emotion. That day, I really kind of clicked. Shunk in. Right. Yeah. So exactly what she wanted you to know about art.

Yeah, there was a painting by Van Gogh called Rain. Yeah. I haven't seen it since, but it was very abstract. Yeah. And it was, you know, it was his thing of the rain. And then it kind of clicked. Oh, yeah. For me, at least at that point.

It's a good moment, right? It was a big moment, yes. But, you know, I remember that. Sure. It was a big moment, yes. But, you know, I remember that. And it really instilled, you know, a conceptual notion of what an artist does or can do. And she gave me that. That's very big for a teacher to instill in a student, you know. Well, it's interesting that she knew innately, you know, as somebody who's teaching creative people how to act, that you need to know about these other things. Yes.

You know, you need to, you know, if you're not going to go to college, you need to broaden your thing. Right. She wasn't, she never said you need to get good headshots. Right. She was totally unconcerned with the whatever methods of getting work. She never spoke about agents. She never spoke about auditions or anything like that.

She was all about the craft and that was it. And what, do you still use her principles or ideas all the time i do because it's the thing i took most from her is a way of creating privacy you know in the in this on the set right really so you can be free to express yourself without inhibitions. And now that was an idea she showed you guys. Well, through technique, through, you know, they use sense memory. There was this one exercise called private moment, which basically you create, say, you know, Mark,

you're going to create how you feel in this because you like being in the studio. You get inspired in the studio. You create here so you imagine okay here's the walls here's the shelves here's the books and then you infuse that with whatever scene you're doing okay and hope you know and and i can use that because sometimes you know you're you're shooting on the street and there's people watching and there's helicopters and there's noise and there's people yelling and let's go, let's go. You need to find a way to center yourself, to concentrate, to focus on these things. And that's one way that really works for me.

And that's something that she taught us. That was a big exercise for her. Yeah. And I noticed in your movie, which I watched yesterday, which it's been a few years, right? We shot that in 2008. And where is it at now? You can just get it. It's available on Netflix?

Well, it was on Netflix for a long time. I don't know if it's still there. It was there for a long time. It's called The Hungry Ghost. So I don't know if the website, if you can order it there. Virgil Films is the distributor. You could probably order it from them. Were you happy with that movie?

Oh, yeah. How long did it take you to make that? 25 days. Yeah. And you wrote the whole thing. Yeah. And directed the whole thing. You have a little bit of a cameo in there.

No. You're not in it at all? No. I thought you were the cop. You're not the cop. That's my brother. I looked at him and I was like, Jesus, he put on weight.

My younger brother, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Oh, he's the cop? My father was the guy who picks Steve up in the car service in the beginning. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Oh, he's the cop? My father was the guy who picks Steve up in the car service in the beginning. Oh, yeah? Yeah. No, I thought it was a very engaging movie.

It was a little disturbing. Yeah. And it took on all the big questions. But I noticed that everyone was acting their balls off. Yeah. In the sense that these were... Because I didn't know a lot of those people. I know the kid.

I saw him in the movie with Ryan Gosling. Yeah. I think this was his first movie. Like how old was he? He was 18. I didn't know him.

That was pretty much the only part that we auditioned people. Pretty much everyone else in that movie, the parts were written for them. My wife and I

had a theater that we built in New York. We produced new plays for a number of years. I remember that. What was it called? Studio Dante. Yeah.

And about 18 or 19 of those actors were either in productions or in the class. We had classes there. We taught acting. You taught? Yeah. I taught Sharon, Angela, Vince Curatola, who played Johnny Sack, and Nick Sandow, who is now on Orange is the New Black. He's the other lead

in the movie. Four of us taught at the theater. But mostly we produced new plays. Uh-huh. Sharipa I know from comedy. He used to book a room

at the Trop. Did you work the room? No. Did you? No, I never worked there. But I remember his name and I remember him being around. But you...

I never worked at the... Did you do stand-up in Vegas? Not much. I don't... I wanted to bring my son around. But do you stand up in Vegas? Not much. I wanted to bring my son tonight, because he's a stand-up comedian. Is he? Yeah, he just turned 17 Saturday. And the last year, he's been performing in clubs. Oh, yeah? I don't know if I've met him.

No, you've never met him. But he's a junior in high school, so he had a lot of projects, but he couldn't make it down. But he kind of was the one who said, you have to do this show, because he has a book that you wrote that I got him, and he's- Oh, my book? Yeah. Oh, that's-

He's a very big fan of yours. That's very nice. That's what landed you? He kind of sealed the deal, you know? He was like, because he's a big admirer of yours. Well, that's very sweet. What's his name? Vadim.

Vadim. Yeah. Where'd you get that name? That's a Russian. My wife is Russian. Oh, really? Yeah. Well, that's exciting, man.

Well, I wish him the best of luck. How's he doing? Is he funny? He's funny, man. He writes his own stuff. He's good. He performed once in L.A. at the John Lovitz Club at Universal City Wall. Oh, my God.

That's horrendous. It was a good experience for him. Okay. Because it was with, you know. Real comics? Yeah. It's just a weird location. Yeah, it's not a destination.

It's people who are going on their way. But the staff there is great. They're really good people. And he's done a bunch of clubs in Santa Barbara. He opened for Lee Camp. He opened for Yakov Shmirnov. Yakov. I've had Yakov in here.

Yeah, a team opened for him once in Santa Barbara. A couple of pretty good comments. So what's he got, like 20 minutes? 15, 10, 15. That's great, man. How do you feel about your kid going into the arts? I mean, that's scary watching him. I mean, 10 o'clock on a Saturday, there's a room full of drunk people.

He looks really young. He's 17, but he looks even younger. He gets on stage and it's pretty frightening. But in terms of like, are you concerned for the struggle of entering show business? I think today everything's a struggle. I mean, what isn't a struggle? I mean, it's, you know, he's going to have to support himself doing other things anyway. So it's not unlike any other job, it seems.

That's a good way to look at it. People are going to do what they're destined to do and what they would hopefully. If they feel the courage, yeah, and the support. Yeah. He has a really good teacher in Santa Barbara named Louise Polanker. A stand-up teacher? Yeah. Really?

Yeah. She runs a teen- That's how he got into it. She runs a teen comedy class in Santa Barbara. Uh-huh. And he was kind of doing class clown stuff and getting in class clown trouble in school. Right. And I found this class.

I said, you're going to go. You suggested it? He said, no, I don't want to do this. And the first time he went, he goes, that's the greatest thing I've ever done. And now he's hooked. Yeah. I suggested it to challenge his energy.

Yeah. That's great. And now he's stuck. Louise is a great, she's been a great mentor. And now you've got a comic in the family. I've got a comic in the family. I've got a comic in the family. And what are the other kids? How old are they?

Is he the oldest? He's the middle. I have a daughter who's 24 who's into photography. She's in school in New York. It's soon he purchased. Shooting? Shooting and art management now. Really?

She's getting into studying that. And then I have a 13-year-old boy who's into guitar. Yeah? All artists. All in the arts. All in the artsold boy who's into guitar. Yeah? All artists. All in the arts. All in the arts, yeah. You play guitar, right? I do, yeah.

You good? Yeah, that's very... What? You know what I'm saying. I mean, I play in a band. I mean, I read about that. I couldn't find a record, though. The soundtrack was a great soundtrack. the opening instrumental is it's you

is my band is uh Zopa and the but the a lot of the singer that you hear the singer songwriter stuff that was uh Elijah Amatun who plays in my band he plays bass but he writes his own music and he scored a lot of that original it sounded great yeah he scored a lot of that original stuff. It sounded great. Yeah, he did a lot of that. Yeah, some of it sounded kind of stonesy. Yeah, he's really good. Yeah. And then the band stuff, like the opening instrumental

is our band, but he did his own stuff for the score. Was that the original dream or was it the side dream? Rock and roll or playing music? Acting kind of was

the first thing I went into, but I started playing in bands pretty much at the same time. Yeah. And I played guitar in one band. And then I started singing with another band right when I started working as an actor. And I couldn't do both at the same time at that point in my life. So, you know, I was, you know, the one band I was in, I was singing. It was a drummer and a guitar player. And they went on.

They, you know, after I left, they got this woman, Brenda Sauter, who was in the Feelys. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And they formed a band called Wild Carnation. Out of that, some of the music that we wrote, they went on and did other versions of without my lyrics. Did they do all right? Yeah, really good. So that was something. You know, in the 80s in New York,

a lot of people were doing a lot of different things. It wasn't uncommon for artists to you know Basquiat had a band that he played in a band with Vincent Gallo you know Vincent Gallo does a lot of things

Vincent Gallo was a painter when he started before he was an actor are you friends with him? I met him once on the street we ran into each other and had about a two hour conversation

yeah on Bleaker Street. That was it? That was the only time we ever met, yeah. I think he lives, I wonder if he lives here. He's an interesting guy. Yeah, I'm curious about that guy. Yeah, I haven't seen him in a while.

I don't know what he's up to. He's very talented. He's a little scary to me. Some people think that, I guess. He's just one of those guys where he strikes me as a guy, it's like, I don't know if he's fucking with me or not. No, we had a very, it was one of those times you just, all of a sudden you stop what you're doing

and have this two hour conversation with someone you never met. It was very, yeah, it was really interesting. Well, New York in the 80s, I was there in 89. You know, that's when I got there. And it was sort of like,

there was still that feeling of vitality to Lower East Side art scene and what was left of performance art was sort of still around. It was right before it all kind of went away and became something else. It seemed like a very exciting of still around. It was right before it all kind of went away and became something else. It seemed like a very exciting place to live. It was very exciting.

When were you there? In 83. Oh, so that was like the middle of it. Fantastic. And you were like, what, 17? 17, yeah. Oh, it was like Oz. Yeah, yeah.

You know, not the TV show. Yeah, everything was still like happening. It was very exciting. Parties and stuff. Mm-hmm. And did you know Basquiat? No, I didn't know i knew um uh some of the people from that scene a year a couple of years later like kenny scharf debbie debbie mazar was part of that scene and uh joey arias and those people yeah it was exciting god damn man well i know like watching your movie like if you wrote that

if that came out of you you had to fight with something yeah yeah i mean there was a lot of people had you know a lot of people in my circle that's that movie came out of a place of you know spiritual searching and addiction seeing a lot of addiction around me yeah a lot of you know and and what started out as kind of part of the scene and kind of you know casual and part of the lifestyle and and then over time you see it start to just destroy people it's horrible yeah yeah people get strung out can't stop yeah and they rely on it and you know it's it goes it goes from being something that's part of your youth to something that's killing you. Yeah, you saw a lot of that? Yeah.

Well, that movie, they're struggling with spiritual elements. The lead character was an interesting character. It reminded me a little of the movie. It's a hard role to play. The guy that is sort of demonically possessed with the truth,, it's a hard role to play. You know, the guy that is, you know, sort of demonically possessed with the truth and it's existentially sort of...

Or what he thinks is the truth. Right. But it's all a negation. Yes. That's what it became. It started out, he probably started out with very good intentions

and had a lot of artistic sensibilities and ambitions, but never quite fulfilled them. And, you know, was a seeker, a spiritual seeker. You know, maybe read. And then that stuff started to turn on itself when he couldn't. Basically, he couldn't let go of his ego. Right.

He wanted it on his own terms, you know. He kind of was almost too smart for his own good. Right. And he understood things in a very literal, intellectual way, but he was never able to really integrate those things into true, compassionate action, you know. He takes this guy, he does, he takes this homeless guy in, but he starts out with very different intent.

He kind of does it as this kind of Kerouacian kind of beat on the road where I'm hanging with this guy drinking in the park and then he kind of feels responsible he gets a motel room

he puts this guy up and this guy kind of you know starts to treat him like shit and shit's all over himself and he has to clean it up you don't see it

I spared the viewers all that stuff but I thought that was an interesting moment because what's that guy going to do and the fact that he cleaned him up But I thought that was an interesting moment, because what's that guy going to do? And the fact that he cleaned them up was sort of an interesting moment. Right.

That he made that choice. Right. Could have split. Yeah. It kind of was based on a real life experience, actually. My wife and I owned a bar for a while. Yeah. I've never actually told anybody that it was based on this what

happened was there's a guy who was drinking in the bar got really drunk passed out yeah so we kind of figure i'd let him sleep it off now it's four o'clock in the morning we're cleaning up he guys still passed out so we wake the guy up turns out he's on leave or AWOL or something from the military. Yeah. And doesn't know where he's staying. This is with bars in Chelsea. Doesn't know where he's staying in New York. His ID says Arizona. I call his father in Arizona.

His father doesn't know anything. Doesn't know where he's staying. Doesn't know if he's with the army or not. And the guy was an asshole. Yeah. not and he guy was an asshole yeah the guy was and you know just degrading women cursing at other customers nasty to me you know fuck you and i'm sorry that's no you can cuss here you can't okay um but now we you know he passes out now he wakes up i don't know what to do with him so i put him in a cab i get in a cab with him is he still shit-faced shit-faced out of his mind doesn't know where he is yeah uh we go to this

hotel on the west side that i know is like a flop house and cheap place because you know i didn't have i didn't have a lot of money on me then or whatever yeah get him a room was like 50 bucks bring him now i gotta get him up the stairs and he starts cursing at people and i start yelling at him pretending i'm like his sergeant yeah i'm like you're a soldier your job is to protect the people not to abuse the people he's like oh yeah yeah okay yes you're right and put him in bed that was you took that role five dollars on his yeah the nightstand yeah and then closed the door and then just left right and you know a lot of people well why are you gonna do that you know the guy's an asshole you should just but if i left him on the street he probably would someone would have kicked his head in or something because he was rolled him whatever

yeah he would have started mouthing off to the wrong person right but um you know so when i was writing the script i kind of thought of that thing and it's like when you just when you take that step to kind of help somebody just because you feel a little bit you know he was young he was probably 21 22 right he was got drunk in my place now i feel kind of responsible right i didn't know what else to do i'm not to take him to my house. You know what I mean? Because, you know, I had kids and the guy, yeah, who knows what he's going to do. Right.

But you felt like you wanted to take care of him. I didn't have the heart to leave the guy on the street. Right. Which was the only other option. He didn't know where to go. He had a hotel key with no name of the hotel on it. You know what I mean? It was just like.

So maybe he'll figure it out the next day. That's what your thought was. He's going to figure it out the next day. That's what your thought was. He's going to figure something out the next day when he's sober. At least he'll know where the hell he is. But what were you saying about when you start to get involved, when you do something compassionate, there's a moment where you. Well, you know, where you're opening yourself to. It's not necessarily going to go the way.

You're not going to get reward. I mean, the guy like abused me the whole time. Right. Pretty much. Cursed at me. Well, attacked're not going to get reward. I mean, the guy abused me the whole time, pretty much. Cursed at me. Well, attacked me at one point. Yeah. When we got out of the cab, started, went at me.

And I just remember that. I left that part of the story. Literally attacked me and went out, and I had to kind of calm him down again. But you take that step, and it doesn't, just because you're acting out of a, you're trying to be a nice guy, doesn't mean that it's going to go the way you want. And they're going to understand that you're being nice or appreciate it. Right, right. That's where that scene came out of.

Well, that's interesting, isn't it? It's not the same scene, but it was inspired by it. But the idea of selflessness, let's say. Because it was, I think, I'm looking back on myself saying it was kind of a bullshit altruistic act in my mind. I think I was kind of, I don't know. I mean, maybe in some respects. Well, no, you took care of the guy. I felt kind of responsible.

Right. But I probably shouldn't have served him all those. I didn't serve him. Someone else did. But we probably should have been a little more careful on how much the guy was drinking when we were you know you know so it wasn't completely altruistic you wanted to clear your conscience he was yes right probably yeah well you know that's still good i never heard back from the guy never heard back well i didn't leave him my information but he i don't even think

he probably remembered where he was i don't know how he got there. I think he got there with people, but at some point he was alone. He didn't remember who he was with. I mean, it was, I mean, imagine waking up in this hotel. Then I thought, God, imagine he's going to wake up in that hotel room, hungover. Yeah. He's not going to know where the hell he is. Yeah.

Even when he walks out, he's not going to know where he is, you know? Yeah, yeah. It's going to be, it's going to be. He had no money on Yeah. Even when he walks out, he's not going to know where he is. Yeah, yeah. He had no money on him. Exciting day for him. Exciting day, trying to figure out how to get back. But with all that, did you find that with that script, because it's nicely shot, it's beautifully put together, it's a big undertaking, that movie.

It's funny, because I noticed you were shooting at Gimme Gimme Records, and he- They have one. I just saw it here. It's him. It's the same guy. He moves here. He was a friend of the producer. I noticed you were shooting at Gimme Gimme Records and they have one I just saw it here it's him it's the same guy he moved here

he was a friend of the producer yeah Dan he let us have I've shot there on my TV show I drove by and I was like God that's the place

I texted him last night I said look at your old store yeah yeah same guy and we got posters from Robert Pollard gave us some posters oh from

yeah Guided by Voices and Lou Reed gave us a poster to use yeah Guided by Voices and Lou Reed gave us a poster to use for the for the movie oh that's nice see I had to reach out for my TV show

I gotta reach out to everybody you can't fucking everything you can't put anything up yeah did you know Lou Reed yeah he came to the

when we screened it in New York he came to see it which was a big deal for me I get you know Lou is my hero basically

yeah out of anybody god I fucking love him and uh I just bought a second copy of the Blue Mask yesterday a big deal for me. I get, you know, Lou is my hero, basically. Yeah. Out of anybody. God, I fucking love him. And, uh... I just bought a second copy of The Blue Mask yesterday. Oh, that's a good one. So he performed in 2000.

He did the Ecstasy album and he did a tour and he played at the Knitting Factory in Tribeca. So I called my manager. I said, listen, could you get...

Because the show was on the air. So then I was able to get tickets sometime. I said, can you get tickets for Lou Reed? She said, okay so then I was able to get tickets sometimes. I said, can you get tickets for Lou Reed? She said, okay,

because it was sold out. She got me tickets. The show was over, and my wife and I was about to leave, and someone came and said, Lou wants to meet you. I was like, Lou wants to meet me?

Just out of nowhere? Well, I guess they got the tickets through the publicist, and he knew. But you never met him before. I met him twice, but he didn't know who I was. I met him on the street. He would walk.

I lived in the village. He lived in the village. You'd see Walt Lurie walking around the village from time to time. And a couple of times I said stuff, but he didn't know who I was. Because I went and got a record signed by him in college at a record store. I told the story before. He was just shopping there. No, no.

He was there to sign the record. And I waited on line to get it. That's amazing. What record was it? Well, I got him to sign Transformer, but he was on the New Sensations junket. But he signed Transformer. Yeah, I got Transformer. But I got all the Velvet stuff. I got all kinds.

I love that guy. All right, so okay. We went backstage, and he was like, you know, he just was really nice. And we stayed in touch. He was nice? What did he say? Oh, yeah. He just was very complimentary about the show and my acting.

And he was really happy that I came. And I just said, man, I said, your music has always been with me in my adult life and has got me through a lot of things. And it gave me a big hug. it was a very big moment for me and on my wall my office I have the last email that I got from him two months before he passed away and he you know to me he was the great American poet of the 20th century no doubt I mean him in Ginsberg I mean, when you look at the scope of what he's done over all this time,

I mean, he was still so, throughout his, you know, to the end of his life, so creative and still doing new music and just being brilliant. And so New York. So New York. It's not the same without him.

It can't be. No. Did you go to the funeral or anything? No, I didn't go. I was here on the West Coast. I wasn't't be. No. Did you go to the funeral or anything? No, I didn't go to the funeral. I was here on the West Coast. I wasn't able to get back. Did you know he was sick? Yeah.

Yeah, everyone pretty much knew. I didn't, and then I found out that he had the transplant. Yeah. Is that what happened? Didn't take? Is that what happened? My mutual friend said, yeah, he got the transplant. It wasn't so, you know, I got back in, you know, I got back in touch with him.

And then, you know, that was, yeah. But the night we had the screening of The Hungry Ghost was at the Rubin Museum in New York, which was a Buddhist museum, Tibetan Buddhist art. And he came, and I was like, that was, to me, that was fantastic. But that was a generation, like, that was fantastic. But that was a generation. We're a third generation away from that. But they were around, man. I worked at a place called Cafe Bruxelles on Greenwich Avenue in New York.

Yeah. Across the street from that place, this is 1988, there was a place called the Rare Book Room. So one day I walk into the place, and Gregory Corso's in there. Sure, yeah. With the owner. Gregory Corso's behind the Rare Book Room. So one day I walk into the place and Gregory Corso's in there. Sure, yeah. With the owner. Gregory Corso's behind the counter. I don't know if he's working there or what.

And then Herbert Hunky walks in. Really? And Peter Orlovsky. Come on. Those guys were all still around in the 80s. Hunky must have been just a little tiny ex-junkie, huh? Hunky, right when he died, I was living on the same floor as the Chelsea Hotel. He lived on the eighth floor.

He lived in the Chelsea Hotel? For about a year, and he was on the floor of that. And the last time I saw him, I helped him in the cab, and he said, someday I'm going to do the same for you. And then he died a couple of months later. Did you meet Ginsburg or was he gone? I met him on the street outside St. Mark's Church, outside of poetry reading. Got him to sign a Kaddish.

How do you pronounce that? Kaddish. Kaddish. All those guys were around. Great. For years. Yeah, I know. I know.

I know. I mean, Burroughs was in New York for a year. I never met Burroughs. Yeah. I mean, I think he I know. I mean, Burroughs was in New York for years. I never met Burroughs. Yeah, I mean, I think he lived down on, you know, over by CBGB somewhere for a while. He lived on the Bowery, the bunker. And yeah, there's, John Giorno lives in that loft now.

Still? I think the same place, yeah. I think he inherited it or took it over from Burroughs. Who turned you on to those guys? At what point? You know who turned me on? It was the guy that I mentioned, Tom Gilroy, who's now a filmmaker.

He turned me on the road. When you were like 18, 17? Yeah, I had never even heard of those guys. And then I started reading all the... And that was your thing? I loved Beat Literature. Got you in, right? Gets you in.

Right, because it gets you into New York. Through that portal, you get to Warhol, you get to Louie, you get to everybody in a way. Yes. Because if you're compelled creatively along those lines, all of it, even the art. I mean, people resist it. They'll fight back against it, but that was it.

That beat New York is where it was at. Well, the beats really kind of gave birth to the hippie movement. If you trace it all back. I'm not sure that they're happy about it, but yeah. Well, I mean, look at the influence it had on, you know, politically and culturally and artistically. Yeah, yeah. I think that, like, the pushback against, like, you know, whatever Eisenhower was doing or whatever. But, like, between Neil Cassidy and William Burroughs, you get a lot of things.

I mean, you don't really get, they all seem to have their role. Because Burroughs is the portal to all that heroin stuff. I mean, to the glorification of it, any of it. And then there's the Paul Bowles. Yeah, and Brian Gison doing the Dream Machine. Pretty wild stuff. Do you know they just found this long lost letter?

Have you heard about this? The Joan Anderson letter, which it's called the Joan Anderson letter. So Neil Cassidy wrote Kerouac a letter. You mean Kerouac's wife? Joan Anderson was a girl that Neil was dating at the time. But he wrote Kerouac a letter. This is before On the Road. Yeah.

18 page letter. Yeah. Kerouac reads this letter and it basically, you know, he wrote Kerouac a letter this is before on the road yeah 18 page letter yeah Kerouac reads this letter and it basically you know that he wrote the town in the city which was a very much more straightforward more like Thomas Wolfe book yeah right classically in style he read this letter this letter basically changed the way and Kerouac had this epiphany I'm gonna write like this guy this spontaneous bop prose, which is how Neil wrote letters. Neil was 22, but he was in kind of a reform school, but had this incredible literary sense.

So, Joan had this letter. They call it Joan Anderson letter because he mentions this story of Joan Anderson, a girlfriend, I think who wound up in a mental hospital or something like that. Anyway, Kerouac gives it to Ginsberg and it circulates among the beats, and then it's lost. It's been lost since the 50s. Really? It just resurfaced in the archives of an old, defunct publishing house called the Golden Goose Press. But this one letter really-

Was the key. To changing kind of American literature. Sure. It's really quite, they thought it fell into the Pacific Ocean near San Francisco, off Sausalito. That was the last time it was seen. Hasn't been seen in 50 years. That's amazing. Yeah.

That's the letter where he's like, all right, well, Neil's not going to do it. Yeah. I guess it's on me. It's pretty wild. It's great yeah that's fascinating that you're you're into this shit because i i mean i love it i love it yeah no it was a big big moment in you know in in literature you know but for you i mean you know i think that it sort of informs to me you know certainly that movie you know the search the idea of searching for, you know, certainly that movie, you know, the search, the idea of searching for either, you know, spiritual truth or poetic truth or artistic truth. I mean, it seemed like, you

know, that you're compelled by that and that, you know, whatever gift the beat generation gave you, whatever the gift Elaine gave you in understanding that you have that within you, it's sort of what drives you. Yeah. So in terms of struggling with these things, was drugs ever a problem for you? No, that wasn't a problem for me. But it was a problem for a lot of people around me. So you saw the horror of it. But what about the spiritual search?

Where did you land on that? I was brought up Catholic. I got exposed to the Buddhism through Jack Kerouac, through reading his stuff in my early teens. But I kind of liked the ideas of it, but I wasn't, I wasn't really ready for it, you know. So I started, around this time when I wrote this movie, I was really reading a lot of different kind of spiritual writers like Gurdjieff and Ouspensky and Castaneda and all that stuff. You got that stuff? You can follow it? I liked it a lot but it didn't really, nothing really kind of took hold of me

till I started reading Tibetan Buddhism and started going, really when I started going to teachings and started seeing you know actual real authentic Tibetan Buddhist teachers. You started going to teachings. Yeah. What does one do there? You just sit there? Listen to a teacher. To the guy?

Yeah. I mean, my teacher is a guy named Garchin Rinpoche, who's a Tibetan Buddhist lama. He's in his late 70s now. He spent 20 years in prison in Tibetibet after the chinese you know occupied tibet in 1959 and then when he got out of prison made his way to the west through india um but uh you know like i said i would read a lot of these books before i got into buddhism and they would make sense and they inspire'd inspire me, but nothing really.

After the book was done. Didn't stick. Didn't stick, but through Buddhism I found a practice that you can start to work on a daily basis or some semi-daily basis. Yeah. And then I felt things sticking more. Like a meditation practice? Yeah, meditation, yeah, definitely.

What else? Well, reading, reading, you know, texts. But the most important thing is to find, in the Tibetan Buddhist tradition, the lama, the guru, the teacher is of paramount importance, really, and finding the right teacher. All right. So you do meditation. And the lama is of utmost importance. What does that mean? Well, because he's your link to the teachings of the Buddha, which is, you know.

Right. And that goes back. His lama goes back to Islam. Well, why I like the Tibetan tradition is that because of its geographic location, its isolation, you know, it was isolated for so many centuries that a lot of the teachings

kind of, you know, stayed very, they stayed in very specific lineages, oral lineages from one per one teacher to the next so you know now in the 21st century you you know there's still these teachers alive who like archon rinpoche who you know became a monk in tibet you know before it was occupied by the chinese so now are you in touch with your guy yeah i saw I saw him last week in Arizona. He has a center in Arizona in the desert, in the mountains. How often do you have to check in? Well, whenever I can.

He has a center in L.A., in Arcadia, that he teaches there once in a while, and all over the world, actually, in Asia and Europe and Russia. And when you say teachings, when you go, so you read and you teach. He teaches, I mean, on different things, you know. I mean, he'll teach on different aspects of Buddha. I mean, the teachings of the Buddha are very vast. You know, the Buddha taught for 50 years. Really?

There's a lot there, huh? A lot, yeah. How does it help you on a day-to-day basis, outside of being calmer or whatever? Like, how does it help you problem-solve or move through things? calmer or whatever like how does that help you problem solve or move through things well i mean this is more for other people to say about me who are with me all the time to confirm that it's actually true in my mind i'd like to think there's certain things what did you know i mean for me it's

a lot you know something happens and you react to it right a lot, you know, something happens and you react to it, right? Yeah. That's how, you know. Sure. So, practice can give you a moment or a gap to think or pause before you react, right? So, if somebody cuts you off, your instinct is to drive by, give the guy the finger, cut him off,

do something like that. You know, you get that impulse. This is just an example, right? You an angry guy? No, no, not necessarily. I'm just giving you, this is not even my own example. It's a general example.

Okay. But then you can have a moment where you get the presence of mind that it's like, okay, is this what I want to do? Is this going to be productive? You know, because one of the big tenets and foundations of, you know, Buddhism is karma, right? The law of cause and effect. Every action has a reaction and those things. So your action, if you do a very aggressive act, very often the reaction's going to be

of aggression. Sure. Yeah, I get it. But, you know, and I knew these things, but before they only went so far and stayed intellectual, right? When you actually start to, if you are lucky enough to be around teachers and be around really good, authentic teachers and develop a practice, then maybe you can be able to. I mean, I'm a student, man. I'm kindergarten.

You know what I mean? Yeah. But it's working for you. Yeah. I find a lot of, it's a very rich and a lot of wisdom there for me. Yeah. How many years you've been in it? And a lot of wisdom there for me.

Yeah. How many years you been in it? Funny enough, when we shot this 2008, this film, then as soon as it was done editing. Yeah. And when the film was edited, one kind of found the teacher. So 2009-ish? Yeah, around. So pretty.

Six years. Pretty recent. Six years. Yeah. Well, that's good, man. And it doesn't require anything of you financially or promoting-wise? It's not like a religion? It's more of a... Well, I mean, it doesn't require you to do anything, no.

I mean, unless you want to. Unless you feel... Well, yeah, you support what you're going to support. If you feel inspired to do that. But it's not... No, they don't recruit people. They don't do any proselytizing. They don't go door to door.

We don't do any of those things. Yeah. So is that why you screened the movie at the Tibetan Buddhist Center? Yeah. Because it must have been new to you. By then we, you know, we, yeah. I forget exactly how that came about,

but we thought it would be a cool, auspicious place. It's interesting though, because like there is something poetic about, but we thought it would be a cool, auspicious place. It's interesting, though, because there is something poetic about Buddhism, and with your respect for Lu and for poets and for stuff like that. Lu and I did a bunch of fundraisers for Buddhism. Lu was a student of Mingyur Rinpoche,

who was another Tibetan Buddhist lama. Oh, was he? Yeah. For a long time? I don't know. I mean, you know, when you become a Buddhist, long time i don't know i mean you know when you become a buddhist you take refuge that's what it's called when you actually officially whatever become you take refuge it's called taking refuge i'm not i don't know if he did but i know he went

he he studied with mingy ring pushy for a while yeah what the he was involved in the buddhist community in new york yeah and you spent a lot of with Lou? I didn't spend a lot of time, but the time I spent with him was very precious to me. Yeah. I can't say I spent tons, but I mean... Yeah. Yeah, but, you know... He was a nice guy to you?

He was very generous and kind, yeah. That's sweet. Yeah. So the first, like, when you started getting roles, you were like, what, 18, 19? No. When did you play Spider? When did that happen?

When I was 23, 22, 23. Were you friends with the kid who played the Leotis brother? He's a New York actor. Kevin Corrigan. Yeah, Kevin Corrigan. Yeah. Were you in the same crew? I know him now.

I mean, we met a little bit after Goodfellas. But I knew his brother. His brother and I worked in a wedding hall in the Bronx as waiters. Really? His brother, Kenny. Yeah. Oddly enough. But Kevin's a great actor.

I love Kevin. Yeah. I think he's tremendous. I just didn't know how many of y'all knew each other. I know him way back, probably right after Goodfellas. You worked in a wedding hall? Yeah. Italian weddings. When what? When you were in You worked in a wedding hall? Yeah. Italian weddings.

When what? When you were in high school? 17, yeah. Yeah. A lot of kids in my neighborhood did. All right, so you get this job with Scorsese. That must have been amazing. So you go in on a general casting?

I had just gotten an agent to start. I guess I was 22. Yeah. 89, 23. And so I went to meet the casting director, Julia Taylor, Ellen Lewis. And they said, oh, they liked what I did. And the next thing I know, I was auditioning for him. Was your mind blown? Oh, yeah.

Man, what, Italian kid kid actor in new york and for him yeah and then i didn't know and then they said de niro was going to be in then he was gonna be in the scene with you i was just like you know that's crazy it's like all of a sudden you're from you know college and then now you're playing on the yankees or something you know it's crazy was he a big influence on you, De Niro? Yeah, sure. How could he not be? How could he not at that point in time?

Yeah, yeah. In the 70s and early 80s. Yeah. So, all right, so they cast you? Yeah. And then, like, you got to do that thing. I had to do that scene, which was all pretty much, all the dialogue was improvised.

It was different every time, except for the line where he tells the guy to go fuck himself but all that other stuff was all improvised so Scorsese said get to go fuck yourself get there somehow

basically he said all he said was so the first scene I don't say go fuck yourself in the second scene the first scene he just said

just bring bring him bring Joe Pesci Jimmy a drink. Jimmy was De Niro. Yeah, yeah. But the thing that he did, that Scorsese did that was so cool was he said to me, when I got there, he was like, treat the actors as the character on and off set.

And that made it kind of easy for me because I was so nervous, you know? So I didn't have to relate. So what I did was I told the prop guy, I said, let me take care of the table, which they did. And I set up the bar. Yeah.

And then I went up to, when De Niro came and sat down, I went, what do you want to drink, Jimmy? Yeah. And he was like, a shot of scotch and a glass of water yeah at first he was kind of and then so i brought him this and that's this was not the camera wasn't right right yeah so that kind of helped you know just to to kind of be that he played along with you after yeah oh he? Yeah, oh, he loved it. Because he doesn't want to,

the last thing he wants is some young actor to start to talk about Mean Streets or something to him. He just wants to do his thing. Yeah, right. He doesn't want, how did you start in the business, Bobby?

You know, he doesn't want to hear that. So you're like a year into acting. No, by then I was about five, six years. Oh, okay. I had studied. I had gone on auditions and auditions for years and never got for years i

did a play right before that so where do you how did you put together because it's a very significant there are two scenes that are great but you know you put together a character yeah well i started we started rehearsing see the genius of scorsese we shot two days one scene one day you may have almost a whole day to do the whole scene. The first hours in the morning are spent just rehearsing. Yeah. Improvising,

right? So I started off and I was a little bit of a wise ass and of course they said, you know, maybe it's good if this guy is like

a little slow. Right. Like he's not just, so I was like, okay, so I started stuttering. Which made, you know, so I was like okay so I started stuttering yeah which made you know

gave Joe Pesci a lot to work with right that's how that we just did it different every time it's just like stuttering stuck

yeah I guess you know slow I was like well slow am I gonna be like duh what do you want

so I just I don't know it was just an instinct and did he like it Scorsese was like that's it yeah do you want? So I just, I don't know. It was just an instinct. And did he answer Scorsese? He was like, that's it? Yeah, I guess. I mean, yeah, he just, you know, a good director. Somebody like that.

He just makes an atmosphere. Like what I was talking about before. You want to create, you want a sense of privacy so you don't feel inhibited. Right. The worst thing you could have is some asshole yells at you. Yeah. Embarrasses you, makes you feel like scared to create and then you close up and you just do has that happened to you oh yeah really yeah there's a lot i mean more more before

you became anybody knew yeah when you have a little bit of juice in the business people tend to treat you with a little more respect but when you're young they take liberties you know yeah well i know you know you've done a ton of movies but like you know it's like but the Sopranos like I can't imagine like did you have any idea it was gonna go for us no no no no not in the beginning no did you know James before no I knew almost everybody else but not him I didn't even know his work no no it wasn't a lot there wasn't a ton of it done he'd done a lot of plays yeah broadway yeah did you become friends with him oh yeah right off the right off the bat oh yeah one of our first scenes i was driving him

and i think it's the it's the pilot it It's in the pilot, and we chase some guy. He's running down the sidewalk, and we chase him with the car and stuff like that. And now I didn't really know how to drive. I didn't tell anybody that. I had to back down the sidewalk with extras running around, and I did it like five. On the fifth take, I smashed the Lexus into the tree. Yeah. And I was thinking, oh, my God, they're going to fire I smashed the Lexus into the tree. Yeah.

And I was thinking, oh my God, they're going to fire me. It's like my second day. Right. This guy's the star. He must think I'm an idiot. He just looked at me. He said, you don't know how to drive. I said, no idea.

I started laughing. And from then on, it was always, he was a good, really good guy. Yeah. A good friend. That was so sad. Oh, it was terrible. It was just terrible. It was just terrible. It was just shocking.

People go and you're like, how does it... Certain people are just like these forces in the world. And you're like, now it's just gone. Yeah, that was shocking. Right. It was really shocking. Yeah. Very young.

52. Young guy. Yeah, I guess he wasn't that healthy yeah but you know i know people who are less healthy who live forever going yeah i'll be honest you know i mean a lot of people say well he didn't take care of his i said you know what a lot of people don't take care of themselves it's a genetic roll of the dice i don't know you know who the fuck knows i mean i saw him two weeks before he died. He looked great. He looked happy. He looked chill. He was cool.

Well, I'm glad that he was happy. Yeah. So you did how many seasons? You did seven. I don't know what it was like to be on that show, but the experience of looking forward to that fucking show every Sunday was great. There was nothing like it. It's very it was there was nothing like it

it's very exciting there's nothing like it for to be a part of it was very exciting in that respect now to do the to do

to play a junkie you know I mean what were you what was your sense memory on that what were you leaning on on that

I'll never tell you know you make it whatever you want you know whatever you think is going to get you now you're in New York we all try something you try you know you know it whatever you want you know whatever you think is going to get you now you're in New York

we all try something you try you know you know what you're doing but uh but you know that it was it was a

it was an interesting character oh it was a lot of fun to play because he he went all over the place well yeah he's a screenwriter then he's a dope fiend but he tried really hard

which I really liked about him you know everybody talks I got an idea for a movie we should do this but he actually went and wrote you know he he really hard, which I really liked about him. You know, everybody talks, I got an idea for a movie, we should do this. But he actually went and wrote, you know, he really kind of, he had a lot of, you know, heart that way. I admired that about him. I liked that there was a sort of, there's a weird innocent sort of striving to him. Yeah. But on the other side, he's just a fucking killer.

Yes. And a nut and a jerk and all those things. But it made it very, very fun to play. That's great. Do you look back? I mean, is it nothing but good feelings about that whole situation? Oh, yeah. Even for the rest of your life, if Christopher, you're going to be that guy?

I don't have control over that. I mean, at least it's something that I stand behind. You know what I mean? It's an amazing thing. Did you guys do like... I was wondering about how... Didn't they do all kinds of other stuff like lunchboxes and shit? Did you guys get part of that?

They did pinball machines. Yeah, pinball machines. Not much of that. No? no no i wasn't in my deal it's wild not much of those things yeah i wonder how much what doesn't matter it doesn't matter so all right so you had a bar for how long well my wife had a bar when i met her okay so then i kind of worked with her there for a while and My brother worked there. My best friend worked there. How long was it? It was really small. Oh, okay.

Really small bar, Little Lounge in Chelsea. What was it called? Ciel Rouge. Yeah? How long was that? We built a theater after that. How long did you run the theater? We had the theater for about seven years.

That's a pretty good run. What was the plan? Did you crap out or what? What happened was, well, it was a not-for-profit, right? So it was all, we did fundraisers and we did donations but then in 2008 then the economy collapsed we lost all our corporate funding uh and it became impossible no that was the thing so you've done a lot of bit a lot of big parts small, all kinds of movie parts. What was the Continflas movie? That was a Mexican film that came out this summer.

And I played Mike Todd. Mike Todd was a producer of Around the World in 80 Days. Continflas was the biggest star in the Spanish-speaking world, Mexico. And all over, wherever they speak Spanish. And he starred in that movie. Yeah. So, you know, I don't know. They called me up and said, do you want to do it?

And I said, yeah, I went to Mexico City and shot the movie. It was great. How'd the movie do? It did, you know, when it opened, believe it or not. Because it wasn't meant for, it was a Latino film. Yeah, but there's but this you know in America there's lots of Latinos no no I know that

but I mean like I didn't know anything about it the week it opened it had the highest it was all Spanish speaking right not my stuff was all in English it had a lot of English

but mostly Spanish but the week it opened it was the highest gross per screen so it didn't it only opened on like 300 screens but those

because all the yeah he's very beloved even in in america they still watch his movies yeah people have the how did you say content floss is that canteen floss yeah he was he was one of the great mexican clowns yeah so what do you what do you got going now i know you've done a lot of tv shows here and there, this and that, had some good parts in movies. I did a pilot for Amazon called Mad Dogs. Amazon airs their pilots and then decides whether they want to do, it's a very different model,

then they decide whether they want to do it or not. It's kind of like Deliverance meets The Hangover. Comedy, I'm guessing. Dark comedy. There's a lot of dark shit. It's very dark, yeah. And it's Ben Chaplin, Steve Zahn, Billy Zane is in the pilot. That sounds exciting.

Romney Malco. Yeah, it was fun. And I saw you, what was that movie you played, The Coppin? The one with the Peter Jackson movie? Oh, The Lovely Bones. Yeah, that was an interesting movie. Yeah, that was fun. Yeah. That was really fun. movie you played the cop in the the one with the peter jackson movie oh the lovely bones yeah that was an interesting movie yeah that was fun yeah that was really fun what about directing a movie and write one again um i'm writing something now that i hope i'll direct at some point but um i'm working on a project uh as a writer right now.

It's not kind of finalized, so I can't really talk about it, but it's adapting a really cool movie from the early 90s, a cool cult movie into a series. But I'll let you know when it's finalized. Is it your idea to do it? No, somebody approached me to work on it. Oh, that's great, sir. A producer and another writer.

So you're busy. I'm always busy, you know. I mean, I keep myself busy. Good, man. It was great talking to you. I appreciate it. Thank you for having me. It was really, really fun.

That was great. You never get to talk like this. It was awesome. And best of luck with everything. And tell your kid, what can I give him? Let's send him home with something. Oh, thank you, man. That he might enjoy.

I wonder what I have. I'll find something. Nice talking to you, man. Thanks. That's our show. Isn't it great to hear from Michael? I love that guy. It's great to hear from that guy.

Great to talk to him. What have I got here? Like, I went and bought something. I was on Twitter. And, you you know i follow sennheiser the mic place they had a mic like like they just had this guitar amp mic like it's just this little mic you put in your in front of your guitar amp i think it's like a 906 or something and i'm like i need one of those because like god knows i'm a professional musician out here in my garage but um but it's just it's specifically for this just coffee.coop available at wtfpod.com That is a fairly tuned up Stratocaster.

And just an old style, very basic crybaby wah-wah pedal. Like I used to have when I was in high school, but didn't really know how to use it. I don't think I know how to use it right now. do Boomer lives! Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products

in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Calgary is an opportunity-rich city, home to innovators, dreamers, disruptors, and problem solvers. The city's visionaries are turning heads around the globe across all sectors each and every day.

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