WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 596 - Blake Mills

Episode Date: April 22, 2015

Songwriter Blake Mills might not be comfortable with being called a "guitar wizard" but that doesn't stop Marc from unapologetically slapping that title on him. Blake tells Marc how the sight of Kurt Cobain with a guitar led him down the path to becoming a solo recording artist, an accomplished producer, and an accompanist for a plethora of fellow musicians. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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What the fuckanots? What the fuckbots? What the fuckadelics? What the fucksters? I am Mark Maron. This is WTF. This is my podcast. Welcome to it.

Glad to be here. Happy to be in your head, sharing my brain with your ears and on into your soul. I got Blake Mills on the show today. Guitar wizard. How'd I come across Blake Mills? How did that happen? Well, I do know this about him. He's got a record out that I listen to. The song, If I'm Unworthy, kills me.

Just kills me. And I believe I'll get him to play it but man this guy is like he's real earnest about guitar playing but he's also one of these wizards that the sound is so perfect and he honors the kind of the real tube and distortion and stuff that happens naturally in the electronics i i'm just fascinated with him, and it's a good conversation, especially if you're a guitar guy. If you're not, I think you'll still enjoy him. But he did just produce the new Alabama Shakes record, Sound and Color.

I've been listening to a little of that, and it's sweet, sweet production, man. I mean, it's got that old R&B soul vibe to it, but it's also just kind of very beautifully defined by a wizard. And he's like 12 years old, this Blake Mills kid. It's always interesting to meet the young wizards, the guys who just, obviously they work, and they do it, but some dudes and gals just have a knack, a God-given gift for Christ's sake sake maybe it's just the luck of the draw genetic rolling of the dice the tumbling down the uh the

dna strands into pure brilliance on those guitar strings who knows don't i i don't i do all right i was just playing a bit uh before i uh cranked on the mics so what is happening man so i did the toronto shows that was the night after i talked to you last i did two shows in toronto up there in canada and they were fucking awesome the tour has just been great i'm so grateful people are coming out and i had a i had a good time in Toronto. I did the new Q show on CBC. It's their big radio program. It's an interview show. I did their first, the premiere episode with the new host Shad. And that was pretty great. It's, it's rare that like a lot of times I do interviews, but when I get interviewed, I got moved, you know, there was a, there was some good moments there.

And it was in front of a live audience. You should look that up. It's Q with Chad, and I'm the guest. There were some other guests there. There was a great guitar player. Now I'm going to forget everyone's name, and a great poet. The poet's name is Shane Koizan, I think, K-O-Y-C-Z-A-N, and I really liked him. He's a great guy, great reader. He recited his piece, and he gave me a book and they're delightful poems and the guitar player was this guy uh Bahamas I think his real name is Afey Jervanen and I was

backstage with this dude and he had this like 52 strat which is a rare piece man it was just amazing and the stage was was beautiful uh in the in the CBC there I'm not. And the stage was beautiful in the CBC there. I'm not sure what the facility was, but it was amazing. And Chad did a good job. I'd done the show a couple of times with the past host, Gian Gomeschi, who was in trouble. Got himself into some trouble and doesn't look good. But nonetheless, I had a great time doing that. And I did the global morning show in Toronto.

It's always exciting to do morning shows when you're up at 730 and you're sitting there with four or five perky hosts just going at it for like four minutes. And you're out. That's it. But all in all, I love going to Canada. And I did what I do sometimes. And now I'm not going to be able to do it now after I talk about it. But I always buy like a few Cuban cigars because they're legal up there. Maybe eventually they'll be legal here.

I hope not because I still consider them a treat and I don't want to get strung out on the fucking cigars. And I'll take like four or five of them out of Canada. I feel like the guy in Midnight Express. Like I might as well have two or three hashish belts on, and at any moment I'm going to be thrown into some horrendous Canadian prison where I'm locked in the basement

and I just eventually walk the wrong way and piss everybody off and figure out a way to get out by throwing the warden up on a coat hook almost by accident and then just walk out just steal an outfit and walk out i got all planned out but now that now now the cat's out of the bag so when they put me in the lockup they know how i'm gonna get out i'm never gonna take

cubans out of the country again that was it it's over i also got this letter i don't know when i said this i guess it was like last week hi mark my name name is Bobby and I am the woman with laryngitis in Philly that you mentioned during your intro to the Henry Winkler show. I wanted to respond to your implication that I might've caused your voice weakness during the intro. I'm willing to take the blame for that. However, I don't feel that I am responsible for a few reasons. A, your voice didn't sound very bad during the intro and I could barely speak above a whisper. Two, I'm pretty for a few reasons. A, your voice didn't sound very bad during the intro, and I could barely speak above a whisper. Two, I'm pretty sure that my laryngitis was caused by allergies. Three, you did five shows in three nights just prior to recording your intro.

Now, here's where the loyal fan part comes in. Nevertheless, if you would like to blame me, I have broad shoulders, and also it is fun to be mentioned on your podcast, so I'll be happy to accept responsibility. By the way, the show is terrific, and my brother and i thoroughly enjoyed it thanks for keeping us entertained bobby well it didn't turn out i had that that laryngitis bobby everything worked out oh my god yeah i got i got pretty strung out man i'm doing all these shows i get i put everything i got into it beats me up i woke up in toronto with uh chest pains yeah that was exciting and then you start to realize you know i'm not always so clear on how old i am or what's happening but uh you know i you can have a uh you can have a

heart blast you can have a heart attack at 51 at 48 at 37 whenever whenever the fuck it is but you know i i also have a tremendous amount of anxiety that I maintain and nourish on a day-to-day basis, a good amount of dread and a lot of repressed anger. Am I working this shit out? Yeah, there's a lot of things that I've solved as of late. I feel okay about who I am in the world and what I'm doing for the most part.

Occasionally, I will be attacked by a fit of jealousy for something I don't want, for someone that I don't care about. Against what don't know why does that happen it's the it's an you know jealousy and self-loathing is like inverted competitive spirit it's like you know i'm competitive but uh i i don't think i can win so i'm just going to fight with myself and see who wins that battle there's no winning because the loser is you and and depending on what course that takes who the fuck knows you can have a battle to the death with yourself oh by the way i'm going to be in austin texas tonight it's at moon tower comedy fest i'll be there i'm doing a screening of a marin episode that's a little effectively premiere there with a q a and then i'm doing a live dr cats reunion of sorts with jonathan cats

that's at moon tower then saturday houston fitzgerald's 26th in dallas oh you can still get tickets to dallas for some reason dallas is not one of my stronger cities. I'm happy that some of Texas likes me. I can't expect everyone to like me, but the Dallas gig, the Southside Music Hall, still tickets available for that. Friday, May 8th, the Neptune in Seattle, the Late Show, still some available. May 9th at the Vogue in Vancouver, some tickets available. May 10th, San Francisco, Davie Symphony Hall. Definitely tickets available. The Orange Peel, that's in Asheville, North Carolina.

Late show available. Charleston Music Hall in Charleston, South Carolina. Still a few tickets left. Variety Playhouse in Atlanta. Still some left. Joy Theater, New Orleans. Few left. There you go.

Oh, you know what? Def Black Cat came back. it's been like months you guys he was making funny noises the last time i saw him like he had something stuck in his nose there was like maybe one of those burrs and there was nothing i could do to get him he was very infrequent and not consistent in terms of how much i fed him but he was usually around and they just disappeared and again i grieved this motherfucker i grieved him and then i just saw him for a split second on my deck and i was like are you fucking kidding me are you kidding me he ran away when he saw me but he's still i don't know where he's been this is the deaf cat this is the baddest cat in the fucking world and I thought he'd been done in by whatever.

But he was back, man. The journey continues with Def Black Cat. Big Head, Big Balls Cat, he's around. I'm calling him Big Head because his head's oversized and he's got oversized balls. He's around. He seems to be like, I don't know, I think he threw up a bird the other day.

Not great, not great. Scaredy Cat's back on the deck. He's been coming around for a decade. There's a couple of new younger cats coming around. I don't know. Maybe there's a litter somewhere. They're definitely wild. Totally new one came by last night.

Tuxedo cat. We'll see if they keep coming. They're all doing all right. Monkey and Lafond are fine. Happy as hell. And that's the cat report. All right? It's a little tweaky for them

when I go away for a couple days and I come back and they have to readjust to my frenetic intensity, which makes them uncomfortable. Hey, look, they could have gone somewhere else. They could have died in an alleyway. But no, they just have to deal with a neurotic,

aggravated man who takes care of them and uh wrestles with his love for them all right let's talk to blake mills the youngin the youngster the the young guitar wizard in production it's hockey season and you can get anything you need delivered with uber eats well almost almost anything so no you can't get you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats. But iced tea, ice cream, or just plain old ice? Yes, we deliver those. Goal tenders, no.

But chicken tenders, yes. Because those are groceries, and we deliver those too. Along with your favorite restaurant food, alcohol, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new

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and ACAS Creative. Lee Sklar, the bass player, has a switch on his bass that... You don't know what the switch is. It doesn't do anything. It's confirmed it doesn't do... You know what it did? It's when a producer or an engineer would walk into the room and say, it's not quite... It needs a something and he would flip the switch and they would go, that's perfect. And it worked.

It was a buffer. Yeah, totally. Between him and the producer. Totally. Yeah. And it worked It was a buffer Yeah totally Between him and the producer Totally Yeah What we did was We took an amplifier Yeah And we tricked the amplifier

Into thinking that it was seeing a speaker You know So like you've got the tubes And the preamp And the power amp And all that stuff And then that all sends to a speaker Right

And if it's not connected to a speaker It'll freak out You know what I mean it's not connected to a speaker, it'll freak out. You know what I mean? It's like plugging up a hose or something. So we created a way to create a speaker impedance, but no speaker. We just took the amp and sent it straight into a DI, into the board.

Really? Yeah, so that crazy distortion you hear on Revolution, you know, the Beatle, when they plug straight into the desk and just distorted the channel. It's kind of like that, but it's even another stage of distortion. It's a great sound. Thanks.

It's a great record. Thank you. I really liked it. I mean, I put it, like I had it for a while and I didn't know who you were and I'm like, no, I'm going to put this on.

Then I put it on and I'm like, what is happening? What the fuck is happening? Who's this guy? It weird record no it's it's it's not that it's a weird record it's very grounded in something very american sounding like there was a few like at least in those first few songs like the second tune sounds like a randy newman song sure oh yeah you know what i mean yeah and it there there is that foundation in what I know as sort of not traditional American music, but definitely roots music. Yeah.

Is that there for you? Yeah. I mean, I've spent a large part of my life listening to a lot of those guys, and especially Randy Newman. Why him? Well, he's kind of one of the top tier ultimate American songwriters. Isn't he? the the top tier ultimate American songwriter isn't he I mean it's it's like Dylan and and Tom waits and Randy Newman you know and then like if you if you go a little further north and include

like guys like Neil Young and Leonard Cohen you start to get a picture of who in the last what 50 years have kind of shaped American songwriting. Isn't it interesting, the guys that you say that you mentioned there are like, you can listen to at least the first five or six Randy Newman albums, and they're timeless. You can listen to almost any Neil record,

Neil Young record, and it just transcends time. Yeah. Dylan as well. Yeah. I mean, stylistically, there are some shifts, but it doesn't seem to age. It's its own thing. No.

When they're firing lyrically, especially, like the Leonard Cohen records that a lot of people shy away from because the production is guilty of being dated or whatever, a lot of people don't realize that he was completely on top of his game lyrically. I keep trying to listen to him. Even more so, just on a whole? Well, I've never been like, I'm a fucking Leonard Cohen guy. And the other night I listened to songs about love and hate all the way through, and I've listened to songs from a room, and I keep trying,

and I understand the poetry of it, and I like it, but it still doesn't And I like it. Yeah. But it still doesn't grab me like it should. It doesn't feel like the kind of thing you want to just be alone with in a room? Well, it does. But there's something like, it's not even, it's not, the emotions of it. I like the sort of gypsy music sometimes that he does or wherever that's from. Because nothing sounds like whoever played guitar on some of those records. But his lyrics, I understand the poetry of them

and I feel it, but I don't feel the emotions of it. It doesn't connect with me. I'm not feeling the rage or I'm not feeling, like with Neil Young or with Dylan or with Randy Newman, there's definitely an edge to some of that shit. Sure. And I feel like that Cohen is reaching for something different

well it's presented in maybe a different uh uh um it's it's it's sophisticated yeah i mean it certainly is but there's something beautiful about the the the lack of sophistication in the delivery yeah of his early records yeah you know so you've got this you've got that dichotomy and then as the records get cleaner the writing actually gets a little more focused you know like like there's a record he's got called various positions and it sounds like the demo button on a casio keyboard yeah but the lyrics are are so yeah it's like it's like the the there's just so much in each stroke you know each brush yeah um well i mean i like you know i like suzanne and i like sisters of mercy i like that period and that shit's great i mean it's beautiful music and he's actually singing yeah at a pretty good level

but what gets me is like i'm your man oh yeah you know it starts to get so kind of crummy and seedy yeah yeah okay, all right. That's pretty cool to have wrapped in a package that sounds like a- Yeah, I mean, I think I just got to- Intro to a newscast or something. Yeah, I got to do it more. I got to do more common. Fall things.

Well, yeah, I just got to sit with it more. Yeah. But when did you start? When did you- Because I know we were both at the Derek Truck Show. Yeah. Yeah. To Desk and Trucks, and I missed you. It was i missed you amazing wasn't it what is where's that guy come from

are you all over all over he's like a savant or something well you're kind of like that too do you go to one of those shows where you guys you're sort of like you know you guys are at a level and did you talk to him after i did yeah would you would you talk to him about? How beautiful the show was. Oh. Yeah, it was just a, you know what I noticed was, I mean, it's a big band. There's a lot of power behind that band. So good. Yeah. I mean, it's like a, it has an engine. Yeah.

And I've played at the Greek before, and I've seen shows at the Greek before, and it's an outdoor venue that is situated in a neighborhood and the residents of the neighborhood have successfully managed to keep the decibel limit at a certain point where if you cross it, you've got to pay a lot of money. Is that true? Oh yeah. And it's pretty low.

I've gone to shows there and felt like it was just, there was a lack of energy there. But at that show man they they it didn't feel quiet uh-uh it felt like he was cranking and and his tones were so interesting and he's conducting too that's completely like completely that's what i noticed is that he is like and a guy who doesn't really he's not the most animated guitar player by any stretch you know he he pretty much thought you know like tunes in in and he's in the zone for the whole show.

But everybody's watching him and what they aren't seeing, they're hearing. So when did you start playing? I was 10. I started playing. And you grew up where? I grew up in Malibu. You grew up in Malibu? Yeah.

Like, are your parents like old Malibu residents? Kind of. My dad actually lived on Topanga Beach through the 70s. Is he a music guy? Huge music lover. He's not in show business? No. He sold real estate. My mom's a paralegal.

So you just grew up down there by the beach? Yeah, down by the beach. Down by Dylan's house? Kinda. I didn't know it was Dylan's house at the time, but I had a lot of friends up there. The one that looks like a mosque? I've heard there's a gate up there. I don't know it was Dylan's house at the time, but I had a lot of friends up there. But that weird, the one that looks like a mosque? I've heard there's like a gate up there. I don't know. I don't know anything. I've never been to Bob's house up there.

And who, are you friends with those? Are you friends with Jacob or anything? Yeah, yeah. I've known Jacob for, I don't know, maybe I was like 20 or something when I met him. We were working on his first solo record together. You were playing on it? Yeah. In fact, I was kind of, there was a stage of him making that record where we were working with a very good friend of mine named Tony Berg, who I grew up with, working with, he's a producer.

And Jacob and Tony were working on Jacob's material and I came in and kind of built demos sort of. Just like played everything and then we went and tracked it and we tracked it and that was the first time I played with Jim Keltner. How old were you? I'm guessing I was probably 20. I don't know. I could be

a couple years old. So let's chart the wizardry if we could. If you don't promise not to use that word all right well i know you're humble but i mean at some point you you've got to like you know you're you're okay i won't use that word fine so you're 10 years old the first guitar you get is what strat a squire strat you got a squire yeah sunburst it's still in pieces in my mom's garage and who bought that for you my dad and now when you picked

it up you didn't have an acoustic you started on electric yeah i started on electric because i the only reason i really wanted to play guitar was because it kurt cobain just looks so fucking cool that was it you're 10 years old and you're like that i was totally seduced by by music videos and what did he play though he played a i think he played a master or something yeah but i mean to the beat up unintroduced there's no you know there's no difference no no right but to be like he played with like piano wire or something it's like he and the guitar was so low yeah you know what i mean yeah it was such an iconic image of this guy playing this thing and stooped over and the hair in his face and and the sound of his voice yeah and guitar it's a real deal that guy

completely it's weird because it took me years to realize that you know you play what you play but it's your commitment to you know what you play and how you play that really is going to transcend anything yeah because there are guys that if you believe it yeah exactly if you believe it that's the magic isn't it totally and when were talking about J.J. Carroll earlier and the level of difficulty or technicality in his playing. And there's something that a lot of people, like they'll glance over when they're learning something and it's feel and touch. Yeah.

Because there aren't a lot of words or ways to document or notate, describe the touch of how something was played. Right. You know, so a lot of people will, will, will learn a figure,

but there's still this huge part of it that, that they haven't got. Right. You know, and, and, and that's a, a,

a, how do you, where do you, yeah, totally. Where do you, where do you, where does that fall on the,

the, the hierarchical chart of, you know, what's good and what's difficult. And, and also because there's so many, like when you're playing an amplified instrument, there, on the hierarchical chart of what's good and what's difficult. And also because there's so many, like when you're playing an amplified instrument, there's a whole range of things

that you can get out of that without changing a note. And an acoustic, I mean the guys that can get that out of an acoustic instrument is even more impressive. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So when you start playing your Strat, what are you playing? Who teaches you initially? Well the store that I bought the guitar from

offered guitar lessons. And you could get like 10 free lessons if you bought a guitar from them. So there was a fellow by the name of Ralph who had like Kirk Hammett hair and showed me, you know, like the greatest hits from the Black Album and Soundgarden and the Nirvana songs that I wanted to learn.

And I walked out of there being able to play Come As You Are. And it's like the foundation for all of the guitar playing that I do today. Still, I mean, even though I've gone on such an interesting journey as far as discovering other kinds of music and just being turned on to stuff. I still find myself, when I pick up a guitar, falling onto these sort of two-note couplings, you know, these shapes. Yeah, yeah.

And they're all over the Nirvana records, those shapes. So that was it? Yeah. That laid it down for you? Yeah, whether I knew it or not you know i mean there's there's a lot of musicality and in like in like the pinkerton record the weezer sure in record oh yeah well he's a monster guitar player and a writer you know and so if you and and my dad used to have these musician friends um who he grew up with in the 70s guitar players

and they would come over to the house and ask what i was listening to and i'd put on pinkerton yeah and and it wasn't the kind of disconnect that a lot of parents, the generational gap, they were going, okay, there's music in this. And they would listen and be able to go, okay, yeah, the progression is 1, 5, 6, 4. And that seemed like such a magic trick to be able to not have a guitar or an instrument around and listen to a piece of music and go, I understand what's going on here. And you, Oh,

you picked that up. Well, I, I, I mean, I, I saw that that was happening. I want to do that.

You know, I want to be able to, that's, that's cool. Those guys, I want to be able to do that. It's yeah. So to see that I used to go in my garage and I would,

I would play handball against, you know, by myself and against the wall. And I would fantasize because I wasn't a very popular kid and I would play handball by myself against the wall. And I would fantasize because I wasn't a very popular kid when I was in elementary school. I would fantasize like, well, what if there was this competition, right? Where it was like I was representing my school or these people that didn't really know who I was. But I was the handball wizard and I could just do these things. And I'm playing down there in the garage past 10 o'clock

and hitting this thing going, wouldn't that be great if I was just able to do something that nobody else was able to do? But initially it was handball. I'm glad you decided on guitar eventually. Yeah, because there still isn't a handball Olympics in the Santa Monica-Malibu Unified School District. Try as we might. You would have been just the weird kid that could play handball

well i i think i probably still was but what were you just like quiet or not really quiet i i think i was actually kind of a little shit oh my mom has a collection of um they were called pink slips things you would get when you get in trouble oh really you're smart ass yeah i was a i was probably really hard to deal with my principal in elementary school said he'll be in jail by the time he's 20. Oh, really? Which is funny, because once I hit like 14, and everybody else was starting to get into mischief, I was so sort of focused and obsessed with music that it became an adult.

It wasn't even an option. It just didn't. Like, a neighbor turned me on to pot when I was 10. Yeah. And I started smoking when I was 10. And then by the time I was 14, I was going out, I was hanging out with people who were in and out of rehab and I just lost interest. You were done with it.

Yeah. Is it interesting though? Because you never then bought into this idea about rock and roll or music that, because so many of the people that I look up to, and I'm sure you as well, were disasters. Yeah. You know, with drugs and alcohol. Yeah. And you somehow avoided making the connection.

Right. Like thinking that that was necessary. It's one of the things that I would attribute to growing up in Malibu. Oh, really? Well, because you're around, you're in proximity to some of that to see the reality of it. It's no longer this thing on a poster.

Oh, the broken, the broken people. Totally. Like, you know, the, the,

the people I was playing music with were in their, you know, late twenties, maybe early thirties at the time. And, and, and their idols did all the stuff that you're talking about. Right.

And so that was the excuse for the behavior that I was seeing that was um clearly not something that was that was glamorous or adding to the music at all i mean i was replaced i mean i would join a band to replace a guy who would be in rehab oh really yeah and he was one of my favorite still is one of my favorite guitar players is he still playing yeah and he's doing really well oh good really well he's great he's sober he's you know like i think he's living in malibu again he's doing really well. Oh, good. Really well. He's great. He's sober. I think he's living in Malibu again. He's doing yoga every day. It's fucking great.

Is he a big guy? No. What do you mean big? Like he's in a big band? No, but his father was a heavy, heavy, heavy, still is a heavy guitar player. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, that's cool.

I mean, I don't think he would mind me saying it. It's Dwayne Betts, Dickie Betts' son. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's cool. I mean, I don't think he would mind me saying it. It's Dwayne Betts. Dickie Betts' son. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I grew up playing with him in the band that he was in, and it was like a Southern rock band with a bunch of really talented, famous people's kids. Uh-huh.

Who was in that band? Roy Orbison's son was playing drums. Really? Yeah. Dwayne was in the band. At one point, Barry Oakley Jr. Was he named after Dwayne? Yeah. Dwayne was in the band. At one point, Barry Oakley Jr.'s... Was he named after Dwayne?

Yeah. That's great. The Allman Brothers family, the band as a family is really... Pretty tight knit. It's wild to me, man. It's pretty wild. I brought a guitar

that'll freak you out. Oh, yeah? It was a gift from Dickie. Oh, really? Yeah. Is he still down there? He's in Florida. Oh, yeah?

Yeah, yeah. And Dwayne plays with him. Dwayne's playing with Dickie now. Oh, really? Yeah, they play together in the Great Southern. Yeah, I don't know what happened between him and the Allmans, but whatever. What happens between people in all bands? Yeah, I guess so.

The inevitable collapse of this idea that things can be democratic forever. It's so wild. I just was listening to the Dwayne Allman anthology. I got both of them. the Dwayne Allman Anthology. I got both of them. And there's some stuff on there, man, where I didn't really realize the full scope of it,

but there's an eight-minute blues number where he's not playing slides. He's just playing straight up. The feel is just insane. So young, too. He died how old? He wasn't even 30. I don't know. I don't remember.

It's crazy. Doesn't it blow you away? It is. It's nuts to consider what these guys were capable of doing. At that age? Yeah. It's crazy. Well, not even at the age, but just in such a short amount of time.

Right. You know? The conversation, like Dwayne- Because you're 28, right? I'm 28. Yeah. Yeah. And like Dwayne, Dwayne I think eludes a lot of musicians as far as like, you know, why he's held in such esteem.

And I was actually having that conversation with my friend Tony Berg the other day and found myself struggling to kind of get him across, you know, do him justice. Because there's something kind of intangible about just the fire he's playing. And on top of that, there have been so many people since Dwayne, he's influenced so many people, that have taken that and kind of right out of the gate just been, you know, like played with that sort of intensity. And it's nowhere near as thrilling

as when you have to go on that eight-minute journey like you're talking about to arrive there with him. Yeah. There's something to be said for that. And I don't know that there were a lot of players that were playing like that at the time. I think that's true. The context is also something to place things in to fully understand what these guys were doing. Okay.

So you're 10. You're going through elementary school. Yeah. You're playing Nirvana. And then when you get into these bands, you're in high school by then? Yeah, I was in middle school. And who were your guys then? When I was 14, I think I heard Derek.

Somebody put me a bootleg of a Derek Trucks band concert. And it finally... Is he that much older than you? He's a little bit older. Not that? I don't know how much older. I mean, he was probably around my age at the time. And it was, one of the reasons it was so big for me is because at the time,

I had been playing with a guy named Bob Brosman, who's no longer with us, but he was a world music, he was an ethnic musicologist and he was really big in making records that would come out in the world music genre. He would just go around to different countries and make records with, not much like, unlike Ry Cooter does, where he'll go and make kind of like a record

with this person that celebrates the indigenous music of that person and that culture. So Bob Brosman made a living doing that, but he would play exclusively national resophonic guitars, the metal acoustic guitars. Like a Dobro. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So I saw him. My dad took me to see a show.

We've been playing like McCabe's or something like that. And he would do seminars at his house in Santa Cruz. And after the show, I asked, my dad took me over and asked if we could attend one of the seminars. And so my dad drove me up to Santa Cruz. How old were you? I think I was maybe 13, 12 or 13. And my dad drove me up to Santa Cruz which is quite a drive

that's like a six hour drive or something like that yeah trippy place totally and so we went to his house and you know

there was like ten old guys in sandals and cargo shorts hunched over in a circle and learning you know like

blind Blake riffs and stuff. But I think Bob could see that I was interested in the world music aspect of his playing. I was just really enamored with the sounds of other instruments. Like which ones? Well, he made a record with this guy, Jelly Musajwara. Musajwara, I think I'm pronouncing that right.

He's a guy from Mali, West African musician who played kora. Kora is like a harp. Yeah, I've seen those things. They're really impressive looking. Aren't they in Senegal too? Yeah. Oh, yeah, I know. Like Baba Mal.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. It's a gourd with a pole and leather straps. Hell of a sound. It's so intoxicating. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And all the notes ring across each other and stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I fell in love with the sound of thatates. So intoxicating. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And all the notes ring across each other and stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so I fell in love with the sound of that instrument and became fascinated with the idea of trying to get a guitar to sound like that. It's sort of like I had become familiar enough with a guitar that it'd be easier for me to try to coax some of that out of the instrument than to pick, and I got a Cora and it's like, you know. Can you play it? Walking on a hammock.ock I mean it's so hard to it takes so much finesse and and and a different sort of connection between your two hands than guitar requires kind of piano uh-huh piano sort of backwards for you play do

you play piano barely not how's the Cora coming I was got closer on a guitar yeah and the core actually you're 13 you're this kid coming I'm closer on a guitar than a Cora and the Cora actually so you're 13 you're this kid 13 I'm in love with music

from all over the world but I'm also really starting to come of age and appreciate the Rolling Stones and also

like contemporary rock music like I mean I remember being a huge fan of me and my old bandmates

would listen to like Third Eye Blind. I mean, and Phantom Planet and all kinds of like pop songwriting and stuff. But at that age, they felt very, you know, they felt like I had to keep one a secret from the other. But did that guy see you as a gifted guy? I think so. I mean, I think in ways he was a little disappointed

that I didn't carry the torch in the naturalist way that he had for so long. So you kept in touch with him? Yeah, I kept in touch, but no, I would say I fell out of touch. When I decided to start playing electric guitar in a band with drums and when

he caught wind of that, I think he was a little heartbroken. but he took you under his wing to a degree yeah before that yeah and and a lot of the slide um playing and came from from that period because he's a slide player bob brosman and if you look up videos of him his shows were were kind of academic you know, he would, because he was a, I think he was a professor at UCLA or like an ethnomusicologist that they would come in and do seminars and stuff. You're in this band with Orbison's kid.

Yeah. And Derek and Dwayne. Yeah, Dwayne. And you and who else? And the writer and singer of the band, his father is a guy named Jerry Lynn Williams, who's a songwriter. He wrote a couple of things for Clapton, I think. And that was your first band?

That was the first band that I played with. And how old were you? I was 14. And I was filling in for Dwayne when he would get sick or he would go into rehab or something. Right. And I didn't fully comprehend the the heaviness of that but um but i was just oh i get to play like one of my favorite guitar but i get to play like duane you know with the band it's great so then he would he was fine he would get out of rehab and then they would just keep me in and because there's no limit down

guitar you can have in a southern rock band so yeah the the more the merrier. Well, you want to do a couple now? Sure, yeah. Let me continue setting this stuff up. Around the time I graduated high school, Gibson was doing a signature model. They were doing a signature model of Dickie Betts' guitars. Right. Les Paul.

Yeah, Les Paul. That was built, basically trying to copy the gold- less paul that he had the gold finish had all flaked off so underneath the gold top there's like a lacquer yeah and it's this color that's crazy red yeah that's it so look at all this shit on here look at the input jack oh my is all stuff that he made. So that's one that they made for him. That's not the original. No, this is a prototype. That's a prototype. See on the top of it? Oh, that's wild, dude.

And so he gifted it to me when I graduated high school. And a few years later I kind of realized the significance of the gift and the importance of this guitar and said I'm not going to tour it with it or play it anymore. I'm going to keep it safe. What was the significance?

That it's a gift from one of the coolest guitar players of all time. And it's rare and a special instrument. And so I went down to Guitar Center in Hollywood, the vintage room. I went down to Guitar Center in Hollywood, the vintage room, and I brought this and set about trying to find a Les Paul that sounded better, you know, that I could invest some dough in and go, okay, this will be my instrument that I use and then this will be safe and I'll put it away. Did you find one?

No, this thing killed every guitar that was in there. Just slayed it. It's so much better. How do you determine that? With your ears you know but I mean like those are

those are straight up humbuckers they're like burst bucker pickups they make you know they make different ones but

there's just the magic of that wood huh total well the wood the combination of everything together I mean I guess each one can be magic right

totally I mean like you could have three consecutive instruments you know like built consecutively,

and then they may not have any resemblance to each other. Or you could be in the studio with a band, and they do three takes in a row. And there's a reason why hopefully one of those takes will be the one, because the other two aren't. Yeah. It's just there's no rhyme or reason to it. But you seem like a guy that's attached to very specific instruments and but do you have a lot of them or do you are you committed to yeah it's starting to pile up starting because i use them for such different

things and i start to get uh obsessed with um i start to get obsessed with application. You know, like, I mean, I just found this acoustic instrument that projects like an electric instrument. Yeah. And they don't all do that. And so when you start to realize, and you've been in a situation where you're playing an acoustic instrument in a room

and you're just fighting to get your idea out, you start going, okay, there's a problem. It's like the way like an inventor's mind might look at it. Okay, the problem's identified. Now you might go 25 years before you come across an instrument that solves that problem. And it might not be until you play that instrument that you even were aware that the problem existed. You could just go, oh man, when I go to Largo and I sit in with these guys, this would be

the perfect instrument for me to play and And I no longer have to lug around, you know, right. An electric guitar so that I can play along with the, you know, the violin and mandolin. Who do you play with over there? Who's the violin?

Ben Mott and those guys? Yeah. Ben Mott and the Watkins. And, uh, uh, I went and saw John Bryan the other night and played a little with him. It was beautiful.

And yeah, I mean, he, he, he's got a, uh, he had like a collection of acoustic guitars and a, and,

and I think a 67 mic, like it was a recording session. Huh. You know, and he mic'd it like a recording session. And if you don't have an instrument that makes that mic react, then you're just kind of going uphill. I got a thing that I bought when I was looking for that. I wanted to get a J45 and I just couldn't find a new one that sounded good and eventually I just got one. You know, I just, you know, I just, it was chosen for me. I got a deal

on it from Gibson. But I bought this weird FJN. Have you seen those things? No, I don't know what that is. It's this big body guitar with two white flamenco pick guards on it. I think only with a short classical neck. Steel string or first steel? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think only with a short classical neck. Steel string or first steel?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think Jackson Brown plays them. So I got one of those, and it's the biggest sound I ever heard out of an acoustic. But I think there was something a little off about it. It still needs to be set up properly, but it's amazing. Just the playability, you mean? Yeah, there's some buzzes to it I couldn't quite get out. And the neck's really short and fat, because it's like a classical neck. Yeah, yeah, some buzzes to it I couldn't quite get out. And the neck's really short and fat because it's like a classical neck.

And wide. Yeah, I think it was made to transition classical players out of classical instruments into folk instruments or into steel string instruments. In the 30s, they were making a guitar that was made for Hawaiian style, for slide playing, for slack key. And for slack key, it's what it sounds like. You tune the strings way down. Right. They have a bunch of slack. So having that space between each string was part of the design for those sort of features.

And it has like a classical neck, but it has a V shape on the back. And I just found one. It's that instrument I'm talking about that projects like an electric. It's an HG00, and it's unbelievable. I was totally unaware. I'm familiar with these guitars. Yeah. And my friend said, again, Tony Berg, he's kind of, he's keeping a good eye out for me

for instruments over the years and gigs and stuff. He said, you should go down and hear this guitar. And I went and played it and fucking swiped it, man. He had it on hold, and I was like, you know, I'm getting this guitar. And that's the one. That's the one. The new magic guitar. Because a lot of them don't do that.

A lot of that year, they kind of fold in on themselves if you start picking harder. Right. It doesn't get any louder. Right. It just kind of compresses. And that one does? It gets louder. Oh.

There's like extra headroom in it. It doesn't make any sense. It's just you lucked out. Totally. Is that thing plugged in? Let's see. I did the, the Crossroads Festival.

Yeah. The Clapton Crossroads Festival. Did you play with Eric? Yeah. Well, I mean, he invites everybody that's there

and so I went and played, I sat in with Booker T and the MGs. Great. Yeah, another maestro, you know. Oh, dude, it's like, he and Keith. 50 yearsGs. Great. Yeah, another maestro. Oh, dude.

It's like he and Keith. 50 years of like, you know, it's crazy. 70 years. So deep. And a guitar player. Yeah. He's a badass guitar player. Really?

He was a guitar player before they asked him to. I thought he was like a tuba player. Well, maybe that too. I don't know. But he was a guitar player at the time that they asked him to play organ on a session. So what's your dad think of all your success? He's very yeah he's a yeah he's a happy dude yeah when i was making uh hi ho i got to a point where i felt comfortable showing him you know and having him come down to the studio and and some of the people that i was that that were playing on that record were people

who you know he if he wasn't familiar with their names he knew they're playing like who jim keltner uh-huh was uh-huh and uh and he came down and his reaction was i mean that was enough for me that was i got what i needed to get out of the experience of you know making the record and having anybody getting any kind of feedback on it. Just seeing him? Yeah, seeing him react to it was really a heavy experience. And your mom? My mom's funnier.

My mom's, I mean she loves it. It's great but she's always asking me questions about what lyrics mean and she's like, what does that mean? And I go, you don't want to know. My mom's on Facebook so she's like, what does that mean? Yeah, and I go, you don't want to know. My mom's on Facebook, so she's doing all the wonderful paternal promotion stuff. What's Don Woz's magic? Because he's everywhere and always has been, it seems.

What is great about him? All right, well, as a musician, one way you could describe it is, so let's look at it like, on this record, Don was playing bass on a few songs. And on a couple other ones, Mike Elizondo was playing bass. The drummer was always Jim Keltner. the difference in who Jim was and what Jim did from when he was playing with Don and when he was playing with Mike, um, kind of helps you see what, what,

what both of those guys are about and Jim, you know, but it's, it, it does help you see like, uh, the difference of bass player makes, you know,

and, and, and just his touch. And when he decides to, to, to pull a note so hard that it goes sort of sharp and kind of buzzes against the neck, the rhythm of that buzz and the economy of notes and feel and everything, it does start to get a little esoteric to describe the kind of musician he is but uh it's it's a beautiful thing to be you know to be able to play with a a trio and have so much music and information come out uh from three guys you know and a lot of it's just after a certain point is feel totally yeah i

mean kind of everything really right because yeah the note choice you know and what you don't play and stuff is is huge but the the language everything, you know, leaves the brain and gets to the ear, I mean, that's the feel part of it that comes into play. Right. So once you sort of move through, you know, your high school band, and then, you know, opening your mind up to world music and these other instruments and trying to make your guitar sound like things i mean what was what was the real goal for you i mean when did you you know start did you have another band after that band yeah i was in a band called simon dawes and those guys are still playing are they dogs yeah they're

people like them i played the record i don't know if they're really connected with it but i i know that people love them so you were with those guys with those guys and when we were in a band together it was, we were listening to like the Kinks. I mean, first we were listening to like Steely Dan and we were in high school and it was really uncool to listen and like.

You like Steely Dan? I did. I mean, I still do but not for the same reasons that I did when I was in high school. For production reasons? Just,

yeah, I mean, some of the slyness in Fagan's writing and how bizarre that music is and feels when you put it on. Yeah. It no longer, to me, like when we started a band, the archetype for it was like,

well, what if there was a band that presented themselves like the Strokes? They stumbled on stage, but then they sounded like Steely Dan. How cool would that be? To me, that was the coolest. Why didn't that band work out for you? Well, for a while, it did. I mean, that was some of the most... I learned a lot.

But for the reasons why I think most bands ultimately don't work, it kind of crumbled. ultimately don't work, it kind of crumbled. It went from being a time where two people who were coming of age and discovering records together, more than writing and making music inspired by those records, it went from that to two people who were listening to pretty drastically different things and writing different things, but feeling like there was this design of the band where it wasn't a band song

until both of us had made our stamp. Right. And we hadn't really figured out the, you know, we hadn't matured enough to know, like, if one of us had brought an idea and it was complete and fully founded, to have the stamp be that's great and i fully endorse it you know and when did you start doing session work after i left that band how did that start uh tony tony berger again he's sort of like a mentor and he'd produced the simon dawes record and uh he he's he's got a studio in his backyard, a home studio that he sometimes does sessions in.

So he would call me to play on stuff. Like who? Like who were your first sessions? Oh, man. Well, I played on a Jessica Hoop record, which is fun because she's an alien. She's out there. Yeah. She's so good um and uh and very musical and um and uh i played

with uh jacob dylan there we did the there was this like uh amnesty international you know charity record and and jacob did uh everyone was doing john lennon songs that was the theme jacob did give me some truth yeah and uh danny harrison sang background vocals on it and um i played that's george's son yeah yeah yeah so it was uh and george had played the original slide solo on that record beautiful solo and uh and so i played slide on that and that's how i met danny and um actually we danny had overdubbed his vocals so he wasn't there when we tracked i hadn't met him when we made the song. But then I was at the Echo for a show or something a few weeks later, and it's dark and loud there.

And, you know, I'm watching the show, and in front of me through the crowd walks the spitting image of George up to me. Yeah. And he puts his hand on my shoulder and he says, hey, we haven't met. I'm Danny. I just sang on that track and I just want you to know that my dad would have been really, really proud

of the solo. Oh, wow. Yeah. And I fell apart. Yeah, I bet. It was really cool. Yeah. And we've been friends since

and, and, and, yeah, that was, that house in Brentwood, Tony's house has been a, kind of like a, I don't know, I'm sure there's a great term for the kind of, you go back there and become reenthused, you know? But by doing that, like by being the kid who pulls it off, then other people are like, where's that guy? Who's that guy that was on that thing?

I think I've heard stories that like people would ask would ask that maybe you heard somebody play on a record or something and then they would ask him who it was and he wouldn't he wouldn't say yeah keep it a secret really keep it in his back pocket I don't know if there's any truth to it I don't care what was the first time when it you know outside of like when he first when he played that George Harrison harris i think because then you got to lock into george's tone and you want to respect that piece and you want to you know honor that piece right it wasn't even that it was just the the respecting the the the sort of beauty innate beauty of the song right and and

that's all you really i think have to uh it because i wasn't playing his solo right you know um i was doing something different and and i i i really feel like i've learned from getting to play with the people that i've i've gotten to play with and the the common denominator being that sort of heartfelt like it doesn't really matter all that other stuff of like what was the amp and and and like you know where do your ideas come from all that bullshit is is secondary to the the thing that everybody tends to respond to which is that kind of uh uh honesty you know and the the confidence in in what you're doing and and and uh musicality in it well there's that's never been uncool you know i mean you know when when nirvana was big you can feel it yeah and you know when n Nirvana was big and you can feel it yeah

and you know when Nirvana was big and like guitar solos were sort of uncool yeah or that's like that's the stigma in retrospect behind the band

there's guitar solos all over Nirvana records yeah and they're beautiful and they're musical and they're more musical than the guitar solos that they were

a departure from right that were going on at that time how so because they're melodic and simple yeah

they were melodic and simple? Yeah, they were melodic and simple, and there was a feeling behind them. Yeah. You know? Well, yeah, that's a feeling. Yeah, you've got to transmit it. Yes. And there was no feeling in the kind of like

all that other shit. Yeah, well, you can feel, like even when you listen to like, if you listen to Albert King, and even if you all the time. Yeah, well, you can feel, like, even when you listen to, like, if you listen to Albert King, and, you know, even if you watch that stuff with Albert King and, like, Stevie Ray Vaughan, where, you know, Albert is doing the limitations of what he does, and Stevie obviously started there but went somewhere else with it, you don't sit there and go, like, no, he's getting his ass kicked.

Yeah. Because, you know, because the feeling is delivered. Totally. It is. It's weird. It's this weird withholding thing that has so much power in it. Yeah. And you know what?

When I was 14 and heard that Derek Trucks record, that was something, I think that was the first time I'd ever heard such a clear example of how powerful that could be. Yeah. Like an electric guitar, an incredible electric guitar tone, and he's, and he's, he's, what he's doing with it and what he's not doing with it. And you played with Lucinda?

You toured with her? I did, yeah. For a lot of dates? About a year. Really? I toured with her, yeah. And that's a pretty, that's a pretty raw band. She's like so fucking honest.

I mean, one of my favorite writers. Yeah. And, and, and was when I when i when i it wasn't the kind of thing where like i i learned about her afterwards yeah you know i mean i really my friend called me and said hey he and he my friend val mccallum was playing with her and he said hey i can't make this tour they're looking for a guitar player would you be interested i said fuck yeah you know yeah and i hate touring yeah i really hate touring and and and but there are a few artists that it's just like if you know if you ever get touring yeah i really hate touring and and and but there are a few

artists that it's just like if you know if you ever get the opportunity to go out and play with them and she's one of them and and uh as a singer and as a writer to to to get to have that kind of intimate uh relationship with that material you know and to learn it and to play it and hear how it evolves every night. Wow. That's a huge learning experience. And you got along with her? She's sweet. I talked to her once. She's so great.

She really lets the music kind of stay raw. Totally. I mean, she doesn't have a choice. I mean, her language that she uses is, there's nothing cerebral about it. It's like right to the guts. Yeah. Did you see ZZ Top at the Greek?

No. You didn't go? No, no, I didn't. You play with Billy, though? You play with Billy and Sweeney on that? That's right. That was our first, I think. On that Peter Green thing?

What do you think of Peter Green? How great is that guy? He's so good. He's another one of those guys where you're just listening and you're like, all the notes, you know where those notes are. I know, but you've never heard them like that. It's crazy. There's a lot of mystery in the

way that he, I think... You haven't figured it out? No. I mean, there's some stuff that like i go oh wow what a sound you know i can produce but the the train of thought you know like when he's on one of his like you know flights of fancy yeah what he gets to with that it's so it's like it and and with his voice it's like he takes like minor blues the guy he was the guy who had everything everybody else wanted. And that band at that time.

Amazing. They were one of the biggest bands in the world. And it's such an interesting legacy. The Fleetwood Mac legacy of like no other band has as many of the fucking rock and roll qualities. Like biggest band in the world. We lose our lead singer and writer and founder. And then we get these you know we get two other guys and then we become an even bigger band right and okay well other bands have done that before whatever like maybe you got the acdc yeah but nobody in acdc was fucking each

other right and like they and they weren't there weren't these like interrelationships and and just the the the story of that band so different the. The bands that Peter Greenfleet would make. So different. And then the Walsh. I didn't love the Walsh. What's his name? Oh, well, the guy who passed? No, no.

Well, there's a couple. There were a few. No, there was, yeah. Kerwan, the Kiln House record. He was great. That's a great record. I love that record. He's not alive anymore?

Kerwan? I think he is. i don't know and the and uh the other guy um danny and then there's um spencer jeremy spencer right was the original uh rhythm guitar player with peter green oh i didn't know and then caroline came in yeah and then why am i forgetting his name welsh or welsh not welsh ah fuck welsh sounds kind of familiar. Welsh. Yeah, Bob Welsh. Bob Welsh. He came in after Carawan left.

Yeah. And then they were looking. That's part of that whole Sound City thing. They were at Sound City, Mick Fleetwood and Mick V, and they were looking for a guitar player, and they were listening to mixes of the Buckingham Knicks record. Yeah. And said, ask Buckingham. We got to get this dude. And he said, yeah, you can if you take my girl.

And that's how that happened. Yeah. But did you watch that documentary, Man of the World, about Peter Green? Oh, no, no, no, no. I haven't seen it yet. It's on, go on Netflix, a BBC thing. I will, I will. Not on Netflix.

It's on. It's hard for me to watch music stuff. No, but it's like. I bet it's great. But the thing is, is like, you go to, just go on YouTube and look for Peter Green, Man of the World. It's a BBC thing. You have seen it. Some writer found him sort of rotting away in a mental hospital, over-medicated, got him back on his feet, and pulled it together.

And then interviewed McVie and Jerry Spencer and Mick Fleetwood about what happened to Peter Green. Right. And he's this little old man now. And he's like cognizant and he's together. And they all track it back to this one night in Berlin at a party. With an axe? Right? Well, it was... No, no, no. That was Gibbs fans. No, no. It was some party where he got dosed.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was... They all build up to this moment where he goes downstairs with these people and they're jamming. And Spencer's like, I don't want to go down there. Some weird sounds. Something evil was going on. Oh, yeah, yeah. And then the guy, finally, after they build this thing up, the guy asks Peter Green, like, what about that night in Berlin?

He's like, no, I think we sounded pretty good. Didn't even register. So sick. Dude, I love that guy. He's the king. And how beautiful is it to put a band together and name it after the bass player and drummer yeah he had this fundamental he was humble and he didn't want i don't think he ever wanted to be you know he just wanted to like i've never heard someone feel so hard yeah as that guy yeah with his singing and his playing and writing

and yeah yeah yeah yeah oh my god all right All right, let's do some tricks. Okay. So that shape, the pentatonic shape, let's say we're in B, you know, B minor. Yeah. So that box. Now, what if you, instead of that sort of fixed kind of, okay, here's that bottom fret, that thing. What if instead you ventured a fret down, but you bent a half step up? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. All of a sudden you start to lose that kind of boxy sound of everything being, and it becomes a, you're taking advantage of what a guitar can do that a piano and so many other instruments can't. You get this vocal quality. I mean, I heard, I think I first heard the mixing and matching of that pentatonic stuff when I was on the shitter or something and on Instagram looking at people's photos and somebody posted a picture of this record that looked really interesting, the cover of it. And it was this...

And I don't totally know how to pronounce her name yet, but I'll sound it out. T-S-E-G-U-E. T-S-E-G-U-E. Yeah. Sege or something like that. Sounds good. Miriam Jebru.

Wow. M-A-R-Y-A-M-G-E-U, G-U-U-E sorry B-R-O-U and she's this she's this Ethiopian piano player and and you know

somebody's gonna place one of these songs in a movie and it's gonna be the most sentimental scene you know of 2015

yeah but this record is and the I mean this is the titles of the songs The Homeless Wanderer The Last Tears of a Deceased, The Madman's Laughter, you know. Wow.

Ballad of the Spirits, Homesickness. So what did this tell you? How did it speak to you? Uplifting stuff. Yeah. It's that color. It just, she just dances around in these rooms, you know. Well, just looking at it as a room is like, you know, I think helpful to me.

Yeah, it's an environment, you know? It's just like a painting. It's a choice selection of colors. And you find this out when you, do you find that you make most of your discoveries alone with the instrument? Yeah, I think so. I mean, some things you definitely hone in the live setting.

It's kind of fun. Well, if you want to, why don't we do one song from the record and wrap it up? I like that thing you do with the... Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I could do that one. This was a tune that was based on this Howlin' Wolf groove, 44 Blues. Yeah.

Do you know that track? It's based on this Howlin' Wolf groove, 44 Blues. Did you hear that track? So in that song, they've got the upright bass playing this bass line and the guitar doubling it, and the piano doing the kind of pretty chords on the top. And it kind of amps between two chords, two and a half chords almost. They go to the five in a cool way. It's sort of a half five.

Yeah. And then back to, you know, it's a blues progression. So I thought, well, what if that bass line were part of a progression that had a few more chords in it and some piano moves and things like that. You know, stuff that's a little out of the wheelhouse of blues music, but still has that kind of like familiarity of that bass line and the feel. Yeah, I knew there was something haunting about it.

Yeah, yeah. I found a new meaning The oldest words in use Now I no no longer asking myself What have I gone to lose If I'm unworthy of

the power I hold over you Over you And this lined up thinking The wonders it can induce Oh, I'm twisted in my sheets now Look what my love can do What if I'm unworthy of the power I hold over you?

before what's wasted with you life is not long enough I'll wrap you in my arms pretty baby and I hope they'll be strong enough Thank you. The time before was wasted But with you, life's just not long enough So I'll wrap you in my arms, babe

See if I'm strong enough What if I'm unworthy of The power I hold Over you Oh, that I'm unworthy Of the power I hold Over you But I'm unworthy Of the power I own Yeah!

That was great. It's been a second since I've had to use my voice. That sounded great, man. Thanks so much for doing this. My pleasure. The album's called... Hi-Ho. Hi-Ho.

It's a big, beautiful record. Two big old discs. Yes. Vinyl, big plates. We put all this money into making this record sound good and then listened to it on Spotify one day. Well, get both. Yeah, get both.

Yeah, that'll be the day. Thanks, boy. Thanks, dude. well get both yeah get both yeah that'll be the day thanks boy thanks dude that's it that's our show that was pretty intense wasn't it that jam

go to WTFpod.com for all your WTFpod needs get your justcoffee.coop over there they got a bunch

of new they got I told you about the new machine get the WTF blend I get a little on the back end of that yeah oh shit Get your JustCoffee.coop over there. They got a bunch of new... I told you about the new machine. Get the WTF blend. I got a little on the back end of that. Yeah.

Oh, shit. Marin on IFC. That premieres on the 14th of May. I know. I didn't realize some of you were so hostile about cable. Watch it however you want. What else? I'm not going to play guitar.

Not after that. Come on, man. Boomer lives. what else i'm not gonna play guitar not after that come on man boomer We'll be right back. It's hockey season, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So, no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats. But iced tea, ice cream, or just plain old ice? Yes, we deliver those. Goaltenders, no. But chicken tenders, yes. Because those are groceries, and we deliver those, too.

Along with your favorite restaurant food, alcohol, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th

at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton. The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5 p.m. in Rock City at torontorock.com.