WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 606 - Kevin Corrigan

Episode Date: May 27, 2015

Kevin Corrigan is a prolific character actor and a quintessential New York guy. So it makes sense that there's a lot of Scorsese worship in this episode. Kevin also talks to Marc about growing up in the Bronx, the importance of music in his life, and how he feels about an acting career where he is often called upon to play the friend, not the lead. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Lock the gates! Alright, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fucking ears? What the fucksters? How are you? I'm Mark Maron.

This is WTF, my podcast. Thank you for joining. Got up early to do morning radio. I was on Heidi and Frank this morning talking about tonight's episode of Maron on IFC. I might as well talk about it here as well. This is my show. I've been making the rounds at the publicity machine. I was on Midnight the other night. I did Kimmel a couple weeks ago. They repeated that. I was Mr. Television. Tuesday night, I was on

Midnight and a repeat of Jimmy Kimmel. Big night of Marin on two different networks. And then tonight, on my own show on IFC, which I hope you're watching. Tonight's episode is a bit gnarly, funny, deep, a little touching, a bit brutal emotionally. It's actually based on something that never happened. But let me tell you who's on the show here today. Today is Kevin Corrigan. Today I talked to Kevin Corrigan. You all know Kevin corrigan today i talked to kevin corrigan you all know kevin corrigan he was in goodfellas the departed super bad pineapple express big fan with pat and oswald community he's

appeared on there you'd know him you'd know him if you've seen him he's uh he's been in almost every indie movie made in the last 20 years i mean maybe that's a stretch but uh he's in a new one that we talk about a bit i was actually actually only halfway through the new movie when I talked to Kevin. Didn't get through it, but I was enjoying it. I was sort of immersed in it. I like movies like that. The last guy that sort of compelled me that way in terms of his art, Joe Swanberg um was to me an amazing independent filmmaker and uh in this film that i started watching it's it's called results directed by andrew buchowski who i believe did another film

called computer chess which i did not see but i have not seen his films but he's clearly a dude with a vision and i felt that right away when i started watching it and corrigan's in it and he's great in it guy pierce is in it and he's great in it and constant zimmer who was on my show as well but anyways i was enjoying the film and i finished it since i talked to kevin and i would have told him it was amazing because i i really dug it it was interesting it was not predictable or hackneyed. It was kind of lyrical and poetic. It was a real indie film, and I dug it.

So there. There's how I feel about Results, the movie, which should be opening any minute now in theaters tomorrow. Tomorrow, folks. All right? So anyways, Corrigan's going to be... I'm going to talk to Corrigan in a few minutes. let's make sure I get to everything I want to tell you I want to talk about tonight's episode of Marin I also want to talk about the Rolling Stones concert I'll tell you what's going

on tonight the episode of Marin was a little rough it was uh it rough for me to make emotionally this is the episode that I wrote and directed this year. It is about a hypothetical situation. I don't know how I would handle it in reality, but I did write it. The character of Mark Maron has an ex-wife who has written a book. Their ex-wife's name is Michelle.

And she was played by Jessica Mackinson, who played her briefly in the first season of the show. And it's basically, you know, we decide, or she decides, or, you know, collectively sort of decide that, you know, I should have her on the podcast to help her sell her book. Her publicist suggested it. And we think we can handle that. And through the course of, you know, moving through the house,

which you'll have to suspend your disbelief as being the original house there's only been one house in the mind of the show we had to switch houses set wise because the first house was no longer available to us but it's all the same house doesn't matter so it's really about her coming back to the house that we had bought together and uh and there are flashbacks, which is why I shaved my face and cleaned myself up. But doing this episode and making the episode of Marin that you'll see tonight, I was able to really kind of get a little bit of closure that I didn't think I would ever get. It's interesting.

It's a very raw bit of emotional theater here on Marin tonight, and it's very real emotions. And I hope, you know, I'm no Olivier, but I was definitely tapped into this thing. So it's compelling and it's raw. And when I watched it again, I kind of got choked up. There's comedy in it. It's balanced. I watched it again, I kind of got choked up. There's comedy in it. It's balanced. But Mary Lynn Ricecup is also in the episode, as is Dave.

Pow! Look out. Just shit my pants. Just coffee.coop. Haven't done that in a while. Don't even have to do it, but I did it. Because I was feeling emotional. And I went ahead and stepped on that with a coffee plug.

With a swerp and a plug. Swerp and a plug. I pushed those emotions down. But watch Marin tonight. I'd like to know what you think. It's very personal. And I have a lot invested in it. Acting-wise, writing-wise, and also directing-wise. It was a big thrill to direct this episode.

Oh, God, I'm nervous for it to be on television. Okay. Rolling Stones. Mark Maron, Dean Del Rey, going to the Rolling Stones. Now, you heard Mick Jagger promise me, Mark Maron, on this show to take care of me. Dean comes over on Sunday.

We hit the road about two, and we're kind of jacked. We're early. We're leaving early. It's about two to three hour run down to San Diego. And I'm nervous because I don't like crowds, parking situations and everything.

He's pretty sure. Dean's like this president. No, dude. It's going to work out great. Everything's going to be great. We're set. We're there at 545. We park, $35, no problem. Like literally a half a block from the stadium. We get out.

We go to will call. Seems to be a little chaos about where that is. It doesn't look like there are tickets there. We go to this gate and we're going through and there's someone with a clipboard. I'm like, yeah, we got media will call, media will call. She gives us these two tickets. And we look at the tickets. We don't know what it means, but it's A3, row 11, seats like 9 and 10.

I actually remember that. And the price tag on the seat was like $395, $395. We're like, dude, what is this? Where are these? So me and Dean are like, fuck, what do we're like dude what is this where are these so me and dina like fuck what do we got and we go we go down the field we go and we're 11 rows up from the stage in the a3 section which is just stage right so it's like like right at a perfect angle to see people we get down there on the field at six o'clock the stones aren't going on till nine gary clark jr is going on at eight

and he's up there you know tuning his guitars and shit and uh and king zapata his guitar player sees me he's like what's up man i'm like hey dude you excited he's like yeah pretty excited then people started coming and his dean said a lot of reading glasses out yeah it was that kind of crowd you know people like a little older than me some my age but you know not a raucous bunch but a lot of people but it was here's the weird thing it would be very easy for me to condescend to this and you know i am a young i am on the younger spectrum of the boomer uh arc that the last one out of the gate, really. These were people that had a relationship with this band probably their entire life,

as I did, but not in the same way. I would imagine that many of these people seen this band a lot. They were probably growing up around the same time as the Stones. They were teenagers, maybe. I came to the Stones, always late to the party, but by the time I was listening to the Rolling Stones,

I was in high school, and all their records had been out. So all of a sudden, this weird part of my heart is opening to all these people that I would generally find annoying. There's a vanity to the boomers. There's a lot of hair color around. There's a lot of strained ego presentation in the way of attire, a lot of showboats and whatnot. But whatever. We're at the Rolling Stones show.

So I was there and I was excited, but I didn't know what to expect. I didn't know how it would feel. I have a weird thing with older people in that I feel like they're fragile. And it reminds me of my own mortality. And it reminds me, I haven't quite put it all together, but I get nervous around elderly people and I shouldn't because, you know, that's where it's all at. You know, that's where the wisdom is. That's where the humility is. That's where, you know, hopefully a sense of humor and not darkness and bitterness is. That's where it all

ends up if you're lucky. And I think i'm just awkwardly afraid of the vulnerability that comes with getting old inevitably inevitably because we all fight so hard against that we just do it's natural you know the one thing america is not known for is aging gracefully Americans in general. It's a panic about it. So anyways, a big thing happens on the screen. There's like this film strip, like the career of the Rolling Stones and this groovy fucking, you know,

video thing. And then like the lights go down and I just feel myself like I'm sitting there going, what's this going to be about? And then like the video happens and I'm feeling like an electricity going through my body. I'm like, oh my God. Oh my God. The Rolling Stones.

And then it's like they introduced the Rolling Stones. And then I hear Keith just like plunk out the fucking opening chords of Jumping Jack Flask. Gang, gang, bang, bang. And I'm like, yeah. Like I'm up. Me and Dean are up. We're standing.

I'm waving my hands. I'm pointing at the stage with the little beast fingers. You know, I'm doing me and Dean are up we're standing I'm waving my hands I'm pointing at the stage with the little beast fingers you know I'm doing the whole fucking number and then Mick comes out and he's he's like old Mick man he's like not old Mick but like young Mick he's like just bouncing around he's doing the dance moves he's doing them like he was fucking 20 like well actually a little better he didn't really learn how to dance that well until I probably mid-20s and he's just kicking it and they're on it it's the stones and it's happening in the right in front of me and i can see him the screens are going ronnie looks great charlie's holding steady keith is hanging

on just like looking good you know he's taking all the weird dangly shit out of his hair he's just wearing a headband looks respectable charming like the fucking devil and And Mick is just jumping around. Doing the dance. It was fucking stunning. 71. 71 years old. Jumping around. The lights come down. Mick puts on a guitar.

And they play Moonlight Mile. They start Moonlight Mile. And Mick fucking hits the notes. The falsetto beautifully. I start weeping. Dean is like, oh man. like i'm i'm crying while mick is singing moonlight mile weeping he sounded perfect and then you could see the on the big screen his face and you saw that's mick jagger but within the mick jaggerhead see what what could easily become sort of tragic is if the age beats out the Mick Jagger.

Like if the age consumes how large the Mick Jagger-ness is. And then it was perfectly balanced. There was his face. I could see all the lines of his face. And I could hear the thing that you can't hide when you're old in his voice but it was sounded beautiful the vulnerability of of of being Mick Jagger or being anybody at that age was coming through in these songs and the audience was moved by it so like that one thing that I prejudged this idea that that they would be too old to do what they do was completely leveled by the fact that

they are doing exactly what they do because they are exactly who they are and we were all sort of like in it with them it was beautiful and it meant a lot to to know that they're still putting out this this type of show at this age it was fucking amazing it was everything and god damn i want to thank everyone involved for getting me those tickets for getting me and dean to have that experience and no quite honestly the the playlist on the ride home for some reason was uh on that two-hour run a lot of grateful dead me and dean were doing a lot of grateful dead little almond brothers did some skinnered uh and some zz top and we and and we played it loud on On the way down, a lot of ACDC

and then we enjoyed the Stones in between those two car rides. It was spectacular. Great experience and they were fucking beyond anything I could have imagined.

All right, let's talk to Kevin Corrigan. Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+. We live and we die. We control nothing beyond that. An epic saga based on the global best-selling novel

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It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton. The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of

backley construction punch your ticket to kids night on saturday march 9th at 5 p.m in rock city at torontorock.com I've kind of gotten into a talk show type thing. I got drafted into it. I was subbing for someone, and then that person never came back. Oh, yeah. It's like a live talk show. Yeah.

On stage. Yeah. And you talked to David Johansson? Him and Kim Gordon, as you did. That's not easy. Nothing easy about that, Chad. What is there, Kevin? Well, I ended up, you know,

I asked her if I could read some passages from her book, you know, and that was fun just to... Oh, that's a good idea. It was nice. And just to be up there with Kim and David, two generations of New York rock and roll. It was hard not to get a little self-conscious about that. Did you grow up with it? Well, you know, I...

How old are you? I'm 46. Right. So you're close to me. I'm 51. That's right. You interviewed Michael Imperioli not too long ago. So I listened to that.

Are you guys buddies? Yeah. You know, we met a while back. Michael Imperioli not too long ago so I listened to that are you guys buddies yeah you know we met a while back you know he worked in a restaurant with my brother oh yeah I think in his interview

with you he called it a wedding hall it was a restaurant are we going to correct that there's a minor correction it was a very fancy restaurant in Scarsdale you know

people like Phil Rizzuto would go there. I think Joe DiMaggio was a good friend of Nat's. Oh, really? People like that would go. So it was that kind of place. So Italian food or what? Yes, Italian food. Very, you know, classy place.

They would have a carnival. Like when you think fancy restaurant. That's it. That was it. But they must have done events. He had it in his head that it was a you know an event sort of place it was definitely like a like the set of a movie so if you know they would have weddings there maybe he only worked those events primarily

yeah yeah that was their specialty they would have these uh um what did they call it, the Viennese tables. I guess there was a very brief moment where I was thinking of going to work there also because the invitation was there, the option was there. Sure, so you wore a white shirt and a bow tie, maybe a red jacket. A black jacket. Black jacket. Yeah, I think one day going to a school, I went to high school in the Bronx at a place called

Mount St. Michael for two years. And one day I couldn't find any pants. So I grabbed my brother's tuxedo pants with the stripe down the side. Someone who I went to school with, who worked with my brother at Alex and Henry, he goes, hey, you're wearing your brother's pants, huh? Anyway, so Michael worked there too. And that became your look that became my look sometimes occasionally i wore a pair of tuxedo pants occasionally yeah with uh with suspenders they had suspender buttons and they were second hand i got them at some point i was doing that that's the style sure you know it was, I don't know what style it was.

Clown? Maybe clown was what I was going for. But you didn't take the job there? No, I'm not a working man. No? It never worked? It was never your thing? I've never had a job.

Really? So how many siblings do you have? Just my brother. And you spent your whole childhood in the Bronx? Yes. What part? The last stop on the D train, 206th Street. What was that neighborhood like?

Diverse neighborhood. I mean, predominantly, I guess, Irish Catholic in the 70s, 80s. Yeah. But it was a pretty diverse neighborhood. And you're Irish all the way through? Irish and Puerto R, 80s. Yeah. But it was a pretty diverse neighborhood. And you're Irish all the way through? Irish and Puerto Rican. Huh.

Yes. That's not unusual in New York, I don't think, right? Not as much as you'd, well, I don't know if you would think that was unusual,

but I had a friend, one or two buddies that I grew up with who also had like, my friend Chris Ramos' mom was Irish, and his father was Puerto Rican. So we had that, I had that in common with a few people, not too many.

Do you speak Spanish? I don't. And I did ask my mother why that was when I was in my 20s. Yeah. And she said my grandmother didn't really want that from my brother and me. You know, that's just, she didn't really want that for my brother and me. You know, that's just, she didn't even want that for my mother. Right.

I'm like, but you spoke Spanish. She speaks a lot less Spanish today than she did when I was growing up. I guess that was to, you know, to sort of integrate. Yes, exactly. Right. You know, I do have, I remember, you know, hearing my mother speak Spanish on the phone. You know, the family was a lot bigger back then. It's kind of, you know, people pass on, you know, things change.

And, but yeah, there was a very lively scene at my grandmother's house in the South Bronx when I was growing up for Christmases and Easters. And, you know, she was very religious. And that was the Puerto Rican side. Yes. So did you get the Irish scene as well did you get both sides there was a time when everybody would make the rounds like my uncle Jack and Aunt Mary would show up at my uncle Sam's house so there was a there would be a mix because they all grew up together in the South Bronx in the 50s and 60s

your mother's family and your father's family yes Yes. So you go from a very specific, I'd imagine, Puerto Rican Catholic Christmas situation. Yes. To a fairly specific Irish Catholic. It was, we would ping pong. We would just bounce all around town. The food was probably better at the Puerto Rican situation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was a little more flavor.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was a little more flavor. But, I mean, there was something, you know, that both cultures offered, you know. Yeah? Like what? Well, you know, just everybody likes to party, you know. Sure, sure. It was a very...

Drunky? Kind of culture, yeah. It had its ups and downs. Uh of culture, yeah. It had its ups and downs. Uh-huh. Yeah. But that was the neighborhood, too, you know? Just like a lot of partying. You know, I have a good friend, one of my best friends is from Astoria, Queens. Yeah, I lived there for a few years.

I know you lived there. Astoria, Queens. Yeah, I lived there for a few years. I know you lived there. He lived on Det Mars right near the train and his name's George Silides.

So he's Greek and he's, we would often talk about the differences between Queens and the Bronx especially in terms of like drugs

and alcohol, you know, and that the Bronx was much more alcohol oriented whereas Queens was more like codeine and, you know, sort of the Bronx was much more alcohol-oriented, whereas Queens was more like codeine and sort of like quaaludes.

No kidding. That kind of head. I don't know if I noticed that. I did notice, like, after I went back to New York, like in 2005 or 2006, I noticed there were dopeheads on the train to Queens.

Like, I assumed that some of that business must have went elsewhere dope heads on the train to queens like i i made i assumed that some of that business must have went elsewhere that the on the lower east side doesn't have the heroin it used to but i saw a few times i would see people looking like they were going to score out there dip mars yeah maybe that's sort of where maybe some of that business moved out there i don't know um i don't know i think it was kind of a wide spike but my friend you know David Krumholz lived in Forest Hills and he would just talk about how there was like a sort of a mental institution out there so there was just like a lot of crazy people on medication everywhere on the island in Queens yeah like we're and where's the Bronx yeah a lot more sort of rowdy you

know sort of you know a lot more drinking going on there. Yeah, what did your old man do? Well, my father was a placement counselor. You know, he's a headhunter. He's always worked in Manhattan. He's always worn, like, you know, nice suits. He's always taken me out to get fitted for, like, a nice suited, you you know men's warehouse or barney's or something you know like uh ties he has a great collection of really tasteful nice clothes and he worked in an office he worked in the daily news building in the early 80s you

know where they filmed superman so you walk into the uh the lobby and it has the big planets yeah and my my mom is an artist you know she's uh she went to high school of art and design and uh school of visual arts and uh you know didn't pursue like a a career at it but but never stopped doing it and passed that on to me so i what's her medium. She's a sculptor. She was a dressmaker. She can write. And they're still together? They're still together, yes. Isn't that sweet?

It is sweet. When did you start acting? When I was 14, I started going to the Lee Strasberg Theater Institute. Your parents were supportive of the decision to take those classes? They wanted you to get involved? Not right away. They told me to wait a while. When I told them I wanted to be an actor, they said give it a year.

So I did, and then I saw. So that was when you were 13? Yes. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. What made you want to do it? Well, I went to see the movie Terms of terms of endearment yeah kind of knocked me out i really was kind of like blown away by that movie jack nicholson yeah and shirley mclean too

right and uh i i just kind of really fell in love i was kind of desperate at that point to to pursue it just because of whatever that movie you know that movie made me kind of that was some experience it was it's a real tear jerker it is takes you on a little roller coaster ride it does

jerks you around yeah there's a lot of great acting in it too John Lithgow Debra Winger yeah Jeff Daniels

Jeff Daniels yeah yeah the power of acting yeah yeah I mean I'm more of a sort of De Niro Pacino guy, but it was that movie was the, you know.

What do you think it was about it, just the way you felt? That you were moved? Yeah, I guess it was the, I don't know. You know, I've been revisiting a lot of movies. Like, I just watched American Graffiti the other night. Again? Again. And just can never get over how great Richard Dreyfuss is in that movie.

Right. And Mackenzie Phillips. Yeah. And Paul Lamatt and Candy Clark. Yeah. Everybody in it, it's just like they seem so real. There's such a spontaneity in their performances. And it's like that's what, it was an infectious energy,

and that's, you know, when you, it's like what, you know, John Lennon used to say about, you know,

like, about songwriting. It takes hearing something by Mick Jagger to make him feel like, oh, shit, that makes me want

to make a record. You know, when I see someone in a good movie, it makes me want to try to find a job like that. Sure. So you're provoked by terms of endearment to go to Lee Strasberg. It is.

It was a provocation in a way. Yeah, yeah. And you show up there at 14. How were you received over there? I think I was never made to feel like I didn't belong there. I was welcome right away. I was just kind of, you know, once I got set loose in that place, it was the place for me to be. You were the kid?

I became the kid. There was another kid there at the time. Yeah, what happened to that kid? He's out of the picture now. I was like, you know, you ain't the kid no more uh yeah but it took about a year of uh of outacting him yeah yeah yeah so are we chipping away at his confidence uh yeah you know i kind of i stole some of his material actually this guy was uh he maybe he's still acting he was doing a monologue from The Catcher in the Rye, and I was pretty amazed by the material. Yeah, yeah.

I didn't think he was doing it very well. It was a unique approach to pull a monologue from The Catcher in the Rye. Yeah, maybe not that original, but it didn't make any difference. I mean, I was like, that's that book I was supposed to read in my freshman year of high school, and I didn't make any difference. I mean, I was like, that's that book I was supposed to read in my freshman year of high school, and I didn't. So I reread it, and I was like, I started doing the same thing that this guy was doing, only better. Right. What was the training at that point?

I mean, at least Stroudsburg. I mean, you would work with a teacher. Do you remember the teacher? Did the teacher have an effect on you? Yes. Do you remember the teacher? Did the teacher have an effect on you? Yes, there was a man named Jeffrey Horn who was an actor, is an actor himself, but he was in the movie The Bridge on the River Kwai. And he was kind of a, you know, a star in the making in the 50s and he was a real inspirational guy

because he would share a lot of his own personal stories. But did he miss his shot? Was it like that? A little bit. A little bit. But, you know, these days I really look up to him just for his... I mean, he's still teaching there. Is he?

Yeah. He's a... And what was it that had such an impact on you? I mean, he's still teaching there. Is he? Yeah. And what was it that had such an impact on you? He was just a very kind guy. He had a very gentle way about him, a very gentlemanly way about him. A lot of the other teachers at the school were much more strict, much more. I mean, it was kind of harder to get along with some of them, you know. How did you get discovered?

Well, I was pretty fortunate that a casting director, there was a movie called Lost Angels. It's kind of a forgotten film, but a pretty big director, Hugh Hudson is a British director, and it was starring a vehicle for Ad-Rock from the Beastie Boys when he was going to be an actor. Uh-huh. And they went around to all the schools looking for, you know, they wanted new faces. And I got to go in and meet the casting director because of, you know, the notice that she sent to the Strasberg Institute. Right. And then they just laid it on me and said, go get it, you know the notice that she sent to the strasburg against it right and then they just laid it on me and said go get it you know yeah and uh and so that's how that

happened i ended up getting cast in that movie and uh how was it it was great i i made a lot of um uh very i mean i i made friends on that project who I'm still friends with, you know, to this day. How big was the part? Not big. Yeah. It wasn't big at all, but I did work on it for three months. Yeah. So that was just- You were around.

There was a lot of opportunities just to be around, you know? So you got to know what a set is like, how that works. All that stuff. Yeah. Yeah. It was, you know like we spent some time in san antonio shooting it and then they brought us out to la and that was the first time i ever came out here was to work on that's exciting and how old were you uh at that point i was uh 19 so you

you finished high school uh sort of yeah uh i mean i it was hard to stay interested in high school after I started going to the Strasburg Institute. So, how did your parents feel about that? I think they understood. So, did you graduate or what? I went to the graduation ceremony, but they didn't give me my diploma yeah i hadn't earned it you know i i still had a lot of credits to make up and uh they said you can have it if you go to summer school i'm not doing that just give me my diploma man i don't know what if it's good summer school i had to do that once because i fucked up uh-huh horrible. Summer school? Yeah. How many times did you have to do that?

One summer. I don't even know if I made it through because I broke my ankle midway through it. I don't know how the hell I made it through high school to be honest with you. I just don't know. I was so distracted and so bored and just tired and disconnected and very few things held my attention. But then you went to Boston University and you majored in English literature. So were the roots of that in high school? Were you not interested in...

I think my senior year of high school, my mind sort of got blown by some stuff. I took a poetry class. I started hanging around the university and I started hanging around this bookstore. So my mind started to get blown a poetry class. I started hanging around the university. And I started hanging around this bookstore. And so my mind started to get blown a little bit in the last couple years of high school. And I also started to panic in the last year of high school. I thought I wasn't going to go to college. I was like, fuck it. And I was kind of pissed off at my parents and this and that.

But the last year of college, I was like, I got to get out of here. Or the last year of high school, I got to get out of here. So I locked in. I locked in. And I aced it. I got straight A's the last year. It wasn't enough to get me into a good school, because I ended up going to another school the first year. But it proved to me that I

could do it, that everyone was right, that I was just not applying myself. So you applied yourself. Yeah. The last year. Did some part of you feel like, why didn't I do this from the get-go?

I don't know. I've never been good at compartmentalizing learning. I just take things in. It's still hard for me to realize there's a context to everything. Even an English degree is something I kind of cobbled together it was not the agenda you know what i mean i took that i took a lot of film classes film study classes and art classes history history of photography and stuff so i was able to sort of get this art history minor you know like film film crit you know film crit minor just because i was interested in things so i was like i just wanted to learn some stuff and then i was able to kind of like all right if i do that one and that one i can major in this thing yeah but i was never very good at writing papers or you know i was good

at bullshitting but i had a hard time contextualizing things like everything had it was very life or death with me you know yeah you're never like you know this is just how we're learning about the romantic poets i'm like no but these guys are real you know so did you wait till the last minute to do a lot of things yeah yeah i still do i still do you yeah you know i but i i think that's a a a motive you know or a gets you in it modus operandi yeah yeah yeah i know you know, or a... Gets you in it. Motorsop. Gets you in it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I know, you know, some people really lay stuff out and they prepare and they, you know, they probably do, you know, I guess in the fields that you and I are in, it's not, no one's saying like, you know, it seemed like you didn't do your work two weeks ago.

You're going to show up. Yeah, yeah. There's that adrenaline that with with knowing you only have oh yeah five minutes left to do a week's worth of work yeah and and also i think it's about the being present a bit i mean obviously you should get you know your ducks in a row if you if things they need to be in a row yeah yeah it helps to be organized yeah it helps to be prepared that was something that jeffrey horn the students, you know, more than anything other, you know, more than like sense memory or, he just told people to be prepared.

What did that mean? I think it had several meanings. You know, I think he would say that that uh you know he was unprepared for the opportunities that came his way in his youth when he was a you know young actor a young actor because of uh drinking and stuff like that oh yeah and uh but i think it also applies to just the you know having a craft you know and having a technique sure get it in place you know once you've done it enough you know you can kind of rely on it a little bit yeah it's not going to leave you hanging that's right so that sounds like a guy had some regrets that guy uh uh yeah i i suppose maybe not too many is all right he's all right yeah now when you do okay

so you do lost angels and then what happens well How do you get from there to Goodfellas? I mean, that was certainly a milestone, and it came a lot earlier than I... Yeah. You know, when you're... Say you want to be in a rock band. Sure. If you're getting into that when you're 42, it's a little too late to expect anything great to happen, right?

Yeah, probably. Because it's a young man's game, right? Probably. Even when Bob Dylan was writing his greatest material, arguably, he was 22 years old. Yeah. And the moment has to be seized at that age. Yeah. And when I was watching American Graffiti, the reason that the movie had such impact was because of the vitality of these youthful people in the movie.

So you see Richard Dreyfuss only had one chance to channel all of that energy of that age that he was when he made that film. How old was he? I guess maybe he was in his 20s. Let's say he was in his 20s. I guess maybe he was in his 20s. Let's say he was in his 20s. You know, so I mean, I'm grateful that, you know, Goodfellas happened when I was 19. Yeah.

Because it might have been too late if it was any later than that. Yeah. I mean, the opportunity wouldn't have come to, you know, the chance to be in Goodfellas only comes around once. Sure. You know, and it came around for me. And it was because, well, the movie that I did with Ad-Rock led to me getting- Lost Angels. Lost Angels. I got an agent that I had, and then I started getting auditions, and maybe my third one was for Goodfellas.

Yeah. I mean, I did kind of- I brought that to them. I said, I just read in a magazine that Scorsese's making a movie out of this book, Wise Guy. And so they looked into it, and the first feedback I got from my then agent was that there was nothing in it for me. Yeah. And I thought that made no sense, because it's a New York story, and, you know, this is...

Got to be a lot of roles in there. I got to, you know... And so there did end up being a role that was available. I did go in and read for the cast and director, and then she did say, okay, you can come back to meet Marty tomorrow at the Brill Building. I was like, I'm there. This is happening.

It's happening. And so my father helped me with my audition. It was a scene from the movie between Henry Hill and Paulie right after Henry gets out of jail. You're reading for who? I was reading the Henry Hill part. Was that what you were going in for? Oh, no.

I mean, Ray Liotta already had the part. Right. But that's the scene that they were giving people to read. Oh, to read. I get it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you know, it was two pages long. it wasn't that hard to you know i i was uh

there was a sense of urgency about this appointment and uh you know i really had to steady myself by for the for the you know uh walking into that room and and and and seeing him you know thinking this is marty this is gonna go down yeah and there he was he was kind of he had his back to me when he was looking up at something on the wall but then he turned around then he was like oh how you doing come on in let's what's uh what's so you're uh you're in the lemon sisters which was on my resume it was a maybe my the second thing i had done and he goes they were yeah they were editing that uh right downstairs i was like that's cool i might you know if i'm still in it because i'll tell you a story

about a guy I had to cut him out after hours do you remember that guy it was his first movie I had to cut him out it happens so what are you

going to do for us today I'm like so then we read the scene the whole thing went so fast and by the time it was over it was just like

he was like good good that's great yeah thanks for coming in and I I couldn't leave you know And by the time it was over, he was like, good, good. That's great. Yeah. Thanks for coming in. And I couldn't leave. I was sort of stuck in the doorframe.

Yeah. Starting to get really emotional. I said, I got to say that I wasn't going to. I swore to God I wasn't going to do this. And I can't not do it. I got to tell. And I told, I just love you. I love you. i love you i love you i love your movies and i love you and i love it just means so much to me and you know i i got really kind of uh of i i started to have a meltdown uh-huh somewhat internally anyway

but but he was like ah it's great no no no that's's good. It's early. It's early in the day. I can use that. You're cracking your heart open. And he was like, you know. I got to get on with my day a little bit. Yeah, no. Thanks, kid. A little flattery early in the morning is just what he needed. Yeah. And an hour later, I got uh i i got hired which is uh you know and he knew

what part he wanted you to be yeah yeah and i i knew what part i was i was reading for you know i knew but that was not the scene you did with him or it was no that wasn't the there was really nothing for for the michael character to read right know? So it was fun stepping into Henry Hill's shoes and pretending I was reading for that. But more so, it was fun just to be with him, I guess. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. He's just, you know, he has an energy. He invented it. He invented New York cinema in a way. He did, yeah. I would agree with that. Yeah.

Like, and, you know, once I was on the set, it was so uh just the having so much access to him which i did a lot of people who've worked with him have talked you know described a different experience um from the one i had but for me i i just he was always the most approachable person on the set i mean that might have had something to do with me being 19 or 20 years old and just being a kid and not knowing any better. And I didn't recognize any boundaries.

I was so drawn to him and I wanted to know things. I had to know certain things. Like what? things yeah like i had to know certain things like what like i had to know what the music was in mean streets that comes on after uh johnny boy throws the dynamite off the roof those are the kind of things you need to yeah and it was then i told him like can i ask you and the spanish music that because oh yeah that was a ritmo sabroso by Ray Barreto. I used one of his songs on my first film, Who's That Knocking

at My Door? Uh-huh. El Watusi. I'll make a tape of it for you. And he did. He sent me a, two weeks after I was finished with the job,

I got a cassette tape in the mail with a note from his assistant saying, Marty asked me to send this to you. And it had two songs by Ray Barreto on it,

El Huatusi and Ritmo Sabroso. Which was the one he used from the dynamite, the post-dynamite. Yes, that... But for me, that was like nirvana, getting to receive that information, you know, because I'm just obsessed with music and i and i'm obsessed with his obsession with music and i and i feel like he's more than a filmmaker he's like a dj and his all the music in his films as we know you know are just so

you know it's like a perfect marriage between music and cinema. Goodfellas is a masterpiece. Just a minute after every, from wall to wall. I watch it all the time. I mean, I watch it at least twice a year, I think. Yeah, that's about my average. Maybe once a year, but it's- I watch Casino once a year, but Good uh it's always casino once a year but goodfellas twice

probably yeah i i i i i'm i'm with you i i uh i ran into ray leota a couple of years ago out here for an event at the at the um a bel-air hotel yeah it was a cocktail reception for hugo right uh so everyone uh showed up for this thing who'd ever been in a Scorsese film you know I said you remember me I played your brother in goodfellas because yeah yeah yeah how's it going I'm like good great you know you were you were really great in that movie haven't seen because we hadn't seen each other since we were on the set and it's like it's great it's like so long ago it's a

classic now you know it's a classic right because he said he never watched it after uh the the uh what you saw that in an interview or something no i asked him i said you've do you do you watch goodfellas he goes i've only seen it once yeah i saw the premiere that was it like really wow I feel stupid I've seen it like a hundred times you know most people have seen it do watch it a lot and you've only seen Ray Liotta's only seen Goodfellas once why do you see why do you think did you ask him why I don't think he's that interested you know in in looking at himself you know like he doesn't seem to I don't know if there is a movie that he you know that, that he's so, I don't know if he's the kind of guy who gets that sentimental about movies. I guess that's true.

Like, when you do, how often do you watch other movies? You've been in, you know, dozens of movies. Oh, I like to, I know just how he feels, you know. Sure, but that movie's a masterpiece. That thing's a. Oh, yeah, yeah. No, it works. Yeah. Yeah. just how he feels you know sure but that movie's a masterpiece that thing's it oh yeah yeah no it works yeah yeah you know it's it's it's kind of like uh um it's uh it's it's foolproof you know

you can't not watch it it's just so masterfully put together do you feel good about your work in that movie not really no but do you think that you do you watch and go like yeah i could have said i'm stirring it differently kind of you know or i could have changed the go, I could have said I'm stirring it differently? Kind of. Or I could have changed the line. Or I could have. But I was so on my best behavior, which can be the worst approach. Well, that was your first big movie.

Yeah. I mean, I didn't feel... There wasn't a whole lot of excitement in my work in that film. I was having too much fun in between takes talking to Marty. And what else did you ask him? What were the other compulsive sort of like needs

that needed to be... Like I said, like what was Mean... When did Mean Streets take place? And he goes, it takes place in the early 60s. I'm like, okay, because it came out

in the early 70s and no one ever says when it is. And he goes, yeah, no, it is the early 60s huh and i was like that's i'm because i can that makes so much sense to me now yeah yeah because everyone associates it with the 70s yeah you know like there's even a line in the movie where uh one of the caridin brothers is like a vietnam veteran and you know david proval he's the guy he starts to freak out and goes, Jerry, you're back in America now.

You're back in America. So is that Bobby Carradine? Who was it? He's too young. It wasn't David. Was it Keith? Keith. Yeah.

Yeah. He's the one who's like, I have to go to the bathroom. Yeah. Yeah. And Keitel goes, go ahead. What do you want me to hold it for you? Yeah. yeah yeah and uh kaitel goes so go ahead what do you want me to hold it for you yeah um but just the all the minutiae of of the film like i i just wanted to to to i was always coming up to

sneaking up behind him you know what is it another question about me what do you like i'm sorry i'm sorry i'm kidding i'm looking what do you want what do you want to know and i was like tell me you know i was just always feeding off of but he's so you know he's so game or he was for me I don't know he indulged me

he really did he was probably happy to have you on the set someone who was that excited about it young guy yeah yeah

I guess did you have any contact with him after before like well you were in The Departed too too, right? Yeah. Yeah, it was, you know, the privilege of being in two is, you know, getting to do that twice.

Did you pester him again? Yeah. Yeah. It was like not a day had gone by. I was 16 years older, and I felt just like that kid again. And I said, so Marty, did you know Cream is getting back together? He goes, I know. I was going to go to that show, but I couldn't.

I was in pre-production for this. And I said, so yeah. So hey, listen, let me ask you something. I know Sajat Ray, the Indian director, when I said there was a scene in one of his movies where there's these Indian musicians playing bagpipes, they're wearing kilts, and he's like, yeah, that was the Apu trilogy. He remembered the scene exactly,

and I was like, well, what's up with that? I mean, you like that drone that that bagpipe drone and the the sitar kind of thing is yeah yeah you know i mean every culture you know discovers that at some point or another they sort of have a you know they find that if they take a little stomach lining of an animal dry it out a couple of months go by and then they hit it and it goes oh they were like were like, oh, wow, that happens in every culture over the centuries. It wasn't even a question

you were asking, really. Yeah, it was, it just, we worked ourselves up into a, he gets very,

you know, often, you know, the first AD would have to come over and break it up. Oh, really?

Because you were just going? He's like, we're ready to go here. The shot's all set up. But he was, you know, I asked him about, I know everybody knows you're a Rolling Stones guy, but what do you think of the Beatles? He goes, I love the Beatles.

You know, I've just never been able to use any of their music in my films, but he ended up using John Lennon's song in that movie. You like Leonardo? Are you guys friends? Yeah, I had fun working with him. We had a good time. Although I did have to break the ice. Yeah. You know, I met him on an airplane right before he went to work on Gangs of New York.

Uh-huh. And we had a mutual friend, Michael Rappaport. Yeah. So that's how I started. How's he doing? Michael is doing pretty good. Good. He's great on an episode of uh louie

louie yeah yeah i haven't seen it yet yeah he's he says he i was i just finally caught up with that watched that a week ago yeah i i was he he was tremendous in that uh he's doing okay yeah i like leo he's a sweet guy he was uh we had a he i drew him out i got him to talk about some stuff and it was kind of interesting you know yeah i think you should do a movie of just like you and and marty scorsese but it has to be he has to be doing other things i would do it if he would act in the movie like i would love to see a scorsese movie where he was the star of the movie yeah i mean he's i think he's a really underrated actor. Based on the cab scene and taxi driver?

That and also he edited a part in that movie, Guilty by Suspicion. Oh, yeah, yeah. He played Van Gogh in a Kurosawa film called Dreams. He also had a little moment in King of Comedy as the- As the director. The director, the TV director. It's funny. It's funny it's funny

yeah and he was he played an agent in the Dexter Gordon movie Round Midnight he's a great actor yeah

and he's really funny he's like one of the funniest people you could ever meet he's just so it's like he should be a stand up comic he's like

Gilbert Gottfried or something he's just the character do you talk to him outside of socially in any way? No, never. I never.

The last time I saw him was at that thing for... Hugo. Hugo. Uh-huh. I was, you know, sort of competing for, you know, the next moment with Marty from everybody wanted to talk to him. It was like the state of the union address where the president can't leave the building without shaking two thousand hands yeah yeah having a moment with each and every one of these people and

uh i remember uh uh franny liebowitz and i were looking at each other as if to say, I'm next. I'm next. Yeah. It's like, you? No, yeah. He made a documentary film about you. But when I finally got to talk to him at that event, I was telling him how much I enjoyed living in the material world,

the George Harrison documentary. I said, that's just fabulous. What a great, great movie that was. I think he really nailed it with that movie. And he's like, yep, that's the one. And he moved on. And I couldn't tell whether he was like, you should be saying about my current film.

That's my last one. That was a documentary you did about George Harrison? Yes. I didn't see it. You know, leave it to him to make the best Beatle movie,

you know? Hmm. I think I saw that he did a Dylan movie. He did, yeah. I watched that. No Direction Home. I loved when he was on a,

I forget what talk show, Charlie Rose or something and they were asking, they asked him, what's the, so what's the significance of the title, No Direction Home? What do you think it is it's a song right yeah but the way he put it well you know no direction home just it's like we're constantly looking for a home as

artists as people just living our life you know we're always looking for home you know and i think we eventually we finally find it when we die that's it it. And then we're finally home. How did Charlie handle that? In his usual way. Feel that question. I know that you did this, you did Grounded for Life forever. That was a long time, right? Yeah, that was a while back. It's resurfaced now on Netflix.

Yeah, so people are hearing about it again. Yeah, yeah. That was a big job, though. Did you like working in TV, too? Yeah, I did. I had to... I did enjoy it, yeah. You know, it's...

I'd been on a show with Malcolm McDowell in 97 or something. It was a multi-camera show, and I didn't have... That whole way of working was so new to me at the time and i i didn't have a lot of fun and i never thought i would go back to doing that again but then grounded for life came along and you know that was kind of a 50 50 experience but donal was there and i don't know if you know donald loke but he's he's he's a great guy and and and and uh he uh i don't know I would have lost my mind if it weren't for him.

How's he doing? I think he's doing pretty good. He's got so many things going on. He's on that show Gotham. Is that still on? I don't know what's on television. Sons of Anarchy. Yeah, he always seems to be working.

He's like you. You guys always seem to be working. Yeah, sort of journeyman actors. What about music then? You seem like a freak for it and you play some. I know I just downloaded the album that you did with Crystal Robots Band. It's mainly all the music in that project is written by a guy from New York

named Daniel Harnett. Mm-hmm. And he had a band in the early mid-90s called Glimm, and they had a residency at a club on St. Mark's Place called Chenet. And actually, Jeff Buckley made his New York debut sitting in with them. With Glimm? With Glimm. Jeff Buckley made his New York debut sitting in with them. With Glim? With Glim.

And Daniel and Jeff kind of rubbed off on each other. Daniel has a very impressive vocal range. And he's a prolific songwriter. You know, I mean, he's just... And I've never heard one that I didn't like. I sort of met him more through the acting circles. But I became a real fan of his music, and I began archiving it. I mean, he just has like a thousand songs.

Wow. Do you have a label? No, it's just us, you know, self-released. But I started to say, you should turn these cassette demos into full songs like full studio productions so I threw myself into

making a real album with him and so we've done two so far. I kind of threw myself into the role of pseudo-manager slash producer not knowing anything about either of those things, but figuring that never stopped Brian Epstein.

Sure. You know? Yeah. So you're sitting on a real gold mine, huh? Yeah. It was like someone should... He's like... Daniel is a bit like the character Oscar Isaac plays

in Inside Llewyn Davis. Uh-huh. You know? And he's... You know, I've taken Daniel with me to see bob dylan twice because i just wanted to be in the same room with the two of them just to say i did it you know how long ago did you see dylan i saw uh saw him last november at the beacon theater how was he he was great i think he's great you know uh it's hilarious to me that he released that Sinatra record.

Yeah. And like, you know, for the last decade, he's been playing live and undecipherable in some territory. And now, like, he puts a record out where he clearly can still sing. And he can clearly, you know, deliver phrasing. Yeah. It's just that for, he just apparently gets on stage, and it's like, how do you see him and

not be like is that a big fuck you is that a decade of like none that you want this shit well i'm gonna garble through it yeah i you know he he kind of he's you know i i think he thinks of himself as a well it's like he said in that old film i'm a song and dance man no i get that i get that he's an actor you know know, and he's just found a new script to play with, this Sinatra song book, you know, and he has a wonderful voice.

His last song of the evening was, you know, like nothing else the rest of the show. He came out and played, you know, I don't know, Strangers in the Night or something

and sat at the piano and crooned. And it was like like who knew that dylan could sing like that uh and sure enough he had a whole album on the way of of uh material like that yeah you know it's uh i think it's a little hit and miss some some songs would come off better than others but just that he wants to do that that his creative appetite i just think it's hilarious that like you know you could see him some nights and not know what fucking song he's playing or singing yeah and yet he can still do it yeah no choice yeah sure sure it's it's it's

i went to see him uh a year before the beacon show at the mohegan sun arena we drove up there and you know i thought that was going to be a bust because it was a casino. Yeah. It was just like... It's a nice... I've been up there. For those type of casinos,

it's a pretty nice place. Yeah, yeah. That ended up being a great show. It was a little... It took him about five or six songs to get into a groove. Uh-huh. He looked really frustrated

after the end of every tune with his band. Really? He just kept kicking his piano chair away and then coming back and starting the next song. But then something happened around the sixth tune. It was called the tune of Not Dark Yet But Getting There from Time Out of Mind or something like that. There was something that just settled in. Yeah. You know, they kind of found their moment. from what's that from Time Out of Mind or something like that there's something that just settled in

yeah you know they kind of found their moment he's like a you know a method actor you know in that way who else do you go see I've seen some

pretty cool shows over the years I've gone to see people that I really wanted to see like I saw Ravi Shankar twice really once at Carnegie Hall

in 98 and I saw him at UCLA in 2000 Just sitting there with his sitar? And his daughter, you know, plays the sitar as well The Carnegie Hall show was just tremendous You know, I mean, they take that, you know

First half hour tuning up Yeah They always get applause for tuning up Really? I've never seen a sitar show. Yeah, it's purely improvisational. So, I mean, it's maybe a... I used to do a joke about it.

It was one of my favorite jokes about... Like, the setup of the joke was, you know, out of protest for... You know, I went out and bought an album by a band. I don't remember what the reference was. I didn't even want to buy it. I just got bullied into it by listening to the radio you know i didn't really and it bothered me that i'd been hijacked like that so i went and returned that cd and i got a cd of traditional indian music and i said yeah okay you can judge me you can laugh but

um there's a song on there half an hour long. And I said, it takes 10 minutes for the drums to kick in. But then I said, but if you're really listening, they couldn't come in a second sooner. You know what was great

during the show? I saw the, he actually broke a string. Oh, no shit. Aren't there like, how many strings on a sit-down? It's a lot, show? I saw that he actually broke a string. Oh, no shit. Aren't there, like, how many strings on a sitar? It's a lot, right? Yeah, I don't know how many, but it's a lot. It's kind of a big deal to break a string on a sitar.

You know, it took a while to replace it, but in the meantime, he let the tabla player have a solo. Sure, man. And that was tremendous, Whoever that guy was. Yeah. It was remarkable. Someone knows who he is. Yeah, someone out there knows what...

Right now, you mentioned, oh, he's talking about David's Indian. I remember he looked a little bit like Donovan. Oh, yeah? White guy? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, he looked... I love to see...

I saw a white sitar player once at a small Indian restaurant, like on 6th Avenue. There's 6th Street. 6th Street see i saw a white sitar player once at a small indian restaurant like on sixth avenue there's six streets six street it's a white guy old guy you must have been 30 or 40 and i i remember i said that it's gotta be a lot of troubling calls home you know like yeah i got another gig ma that's in a different indian restaurant it's a different it's heartbreaking but i i seem to be enjoying himself yeah you you gotta i mean you gotta commit you gotta love it you gotta want it do you play guitar yeah yeah i do a little in the movie results you're noodling around yeah yeah i they tell you like don't play anything we can identify? I think, yeah, there was a little bit of that.

Yeah, they did say that. Now I'm remembering, yeah. But, yeah, I was 13 when I sort of went and decided I wanted a guitar. But, you know, my parents were like, you know, look, the acting thing is one thing, all right? Give it a year to figure that out. We're not getting you a guitar. Really? I mean, they didn't put it in those words, but I just never got one.

Until? Until I was 19, and then I had my own means of- You had to wait? Six years, and then I finally got an acoustic guitar. Yeah. It was a BC Rich rich a bc rich acoustic yeah huh a friend of mine out in astoria said i got a guitar i can sell you if you really want you know and uh it kind of that's that guitar went around it changed hands over the years he has a few a minor out there

yeah yeah what was how long have you been playing? That was when I was 12. Wow. 11 or 12. Who did you want to be? Who did you want to sound like? Or who was? You know, I think I've gotten better in the last five or six years.

Like, you know, I never had the discipline to learn leads or stuff. Yeah. You know, and like for years i just played my mother just would say go practice go practice and and i just knew chords and stuff and then when i was in high school i started taking lessons from a guy who showed me pentatonic scales and i just wanted to sound like uh you know i just wanted to know how to play that chuck berry thing that beginning that chuck berry beginning you know and some kids showed me that in high school and i was like oh my god that's the best thing wanted to know how to play that chuck berry thing that beginning that chuck berry beginning you know

and some kids showed me that in high school and i was like oh my god that's the best thing i've ever experienced in my life was knowing how to play that i could have figured it out i just never took much time to figure it out and then uh yeah i just never stopped playing really but now like i play a lot and i you know i try to play with people. I don't know. The sound I like now is these pedal people. Earthquaker sends me all these pedals because they sponsor sometimes. And that was always anti-pedals. I like just overdriving an amp, like a little Fender amp, and just getting that dirty sound out of it.

I used to be a Fender guy, just clean as fuck. Strat, clean Strat, clean Tele, not much dirt on it. But then I started playing this little Gibson Westball Junior and it sounded like Johnny Thunders. I'm like, is that easy to make this guitar sound like that? All I got to do is dirty this up and that's a Johnny Thunders guitar? Yeah. And I was like, that's pretty cool.

So then I started getting into Gibsons a little bit. Oh, nice. Like, that's pretty cool. So then I started getting into Gibsons a little bit. Oh, nice. You know, and I like dirty, but still just with pretty basic tube overdrive, not too many effects. Yeah. I'm not a great player, but when I play, I tend to play rock and blues

and some country stuff. But I don't play out a lot, but I'll noodle all the time. What about you? play out a lot but i'll noodle all the time what about you um when i when i play guitar i i i've i've had you know you know a handful of buddies over the years who who play drums uh-huh and we just get together at a you know you know a funkadelic or you know cheap you know studio studio and just jam for two hours. Yeah. Improvising on just guitar and drums.

So it comes out like a real punk. Uh-huh. There's a sort of metal kind of muted chords and just grooves, you know. I mean, I can't lick either. I can't solo. But I love rhythms and I love drones and I love, you know. You like Endless Boogie? The John Lee Hooker?

No, no, the band? You ever heard of them? Oh, no, no. You don't know them? Don't know them. It's an old dude. Old dude from the island. From Long Island, I think.

They're from Long Island. Oh, all right. And it's just sort of like swampy kind of hard rock groove. Oh, wow. I'll play it for you if you want. Yeah, I would love that. I love that style. I love, you know, I love like, I guess a so-called sort of punk blues sound like John Spencer Blues Explosion.

He's good, yeah. Or there was that band Gun Club. Sure, I love them. Jeffrey Lee. Yeah, yeah. I like that sound a lot that's great sound yeah sure man um and uh i love you know oh god i like black sabbath a lot glad me too you know when i got it took a late i didn't come to them till later

like you know like within the last decade i was already in my 40s oh like i didn't grow up liking them but now like sabbath sounds good those records are good yeah yeah on vinyl sure at the end of the day that sort of comes down to is just like sort of yeah my friend george and i the guy in the story of sometimes we get together and to cleanse the palette sure man we'll put on, you know, Symptom of the Universe, or what was that other song? Confusion? I think it's track three on Sabotage.

Yeah, okay. What the hell is it? I don't know, man. It just starts out with a... You play it on vinyl? No, over at his place, we just listen to it on a computer. You know, I do that too, man.

Me and my buddy, I used to, when I was in college, my freshman year of college, me and this kid from Scarsdale, actually, Cliff, we used to do this thing called the ACDC cruise where I had tape, this mixtape of Bon Scott ACDC, and we'd just get a couple of 40s and get in the car, and we'd drive until we finished the 40s listening to ACDC just wowed I'm a purist when it comes to like Sabbath and ACDC I really can't go past the original singer now I mean to I'm even weird with the stones I have a hard time without Bill I just don't but like you too I'm with you. I love his bass playing. You know?

No one ever raves about Bill Wyman's bass playing. You know what you gotta do? Abco just reissued Get Your Ya-Ya's Out. Listen to that fucking record. Yeah. Bill and Charlie are on fire.

The entire thing would be chaos without them. It's just like, I never really noticed it as queer, but they're remastered a little, so they're a little more prominent.

And it's just like, Mick Taylor's great, Keith is great, but like, those guys are just like, it's all about them. Yeah. It's all about Charlie and Bill.

Yeah, and they're all business, you know? All business. You know, I love John Lennon when he's talking about, you know,

Mick Jaggedy shaking his ass around you know but you not Bill not Charlie those guys gotta hold it down

so Mick can indulge so those other guys can well Keith's like that too Keith is like you know I talked to them both for 10 minutes yeah

Keith and and Mick they called me two separate times but I only had 10 minutes and it was tour specific. But I talked to them. And it was like, did you read Keith's book?

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, right. It's like the Bible, right? You read it like the Bible. I don't want this to end. And then, but, you know, because I asked them both the question. I asked Mick, you know, do you miss Bill? And he goes, I miss his dancing, which is funny.

It's funny funny it's clever yeah right and then i asked i asked keith the same question he goes oh it's been like 25 years i mean he's a good bloke but i mean i like my baseball he wouldn't throw the new guy under the bus because because keith just sees it as a band like it's his band like and when you read his book you're like it's his band and mick is his singer that's the way it goes you know so it was a band like it's his band like and when you read his book you're like it's his band and mick is his singer that's the way it goes you know so it was a very appropriate answer very within character like i like my bass player like he doesn't he it's it's you know it's uh it's it moves it's you know like if you really think of that band you know who's come in and out and you know this you know out and supporting players.

But I mean, they've had three fucking guitar players. Right? Brian, Ronnie, Mick, Taylor. Yeah. So there is sort of an evolution to it. Yeah. And the supporting players

have come and gone. Many of them. I wonder, it's like, maybe you would ask maybe Paul McCartney the same thing. Like,

how come you don't have Ringo in there playing drums? He's still playing drums, you know, you can get him in there to play. He's happy with the guy he has now,

you know. It's like, once you get an upgrade, you know. I guess it's an upgrade because they end up playing like the other guy anyways.

You know, like, right, you know, but they're more versatile, I guess. I don't know, but you know,

it's weird, I don't understand it. Like, you know, it's weird to me too, even like you that you know you don't you never saw you never see ray leota or whatever you know what i mean it's like i always assume these guys are such good friends but you know i i worked with a guy on the radio for a year once and we never hung out and and it's like you know i i guess it's just a weird thing yeah who the fuck knows? They're not all having a good time.

Right? Yeah. No, it's true. Someone sent me a picture of Woody Allen, a recent picture. He just looks... I'm like, do you think he's as unhappy as he looks in this picture? It's like, who knows? Should he be? What's it to you? You know, it's like,

we would like to think that, you know, all these guys are still, yeah, you're right. They're probably not that close. Yeah. You know. Right. Because I said that, I said, you know,

like, well, Keith was very funny to talk to him for 10 minutes because they're doing this tour and this was like a month ago. You know, the tour is a month out. I said, you talked to charlie watts he goes yeah i talked to him today i asked him what he was doing he said he was packing it's pretty funny dude so this this new movie you like it yeah i do i like it it seems pretty

quirky and interesting i am looking forward to finishing it. Yeah. I like all of this guy's movies. This is his fifth one. You know, and probably his most, you know, visible one. Yeah. God, you've been in a lot of fucking movies, dude. Yeah, you know, I didn't have a lot to do in most of them but

when you see all those titles it's kind of like you were good with Patton in the thing oh I like that yeah I was a big fan of Patton Oswalt

before working on that movie with him when I got that script I read it and they had offered me the part of the friend, and I said, I kind of like the lead part.

Yeah. And Robert, the director, said, yeah, you'd be good at that, but I cast it already, so I don't know if you... I was like, yeah. I'm always the friend.

I don't really know if... I don't know. Are you frustrated with that? No, not... Well, when he told me who, that it was going to be Patton as the lead guy, I was like, oh, I'll be his friend. Yeah, but it's interesting. You have had a career of sort of second parts.

The perennial second banana. Yeah, but do you want to make movies? Do you, I mean, did you direct movies? I directed, or co-directed. I'm really coming around to the admission that I didn't direct this thing. The other guy did, but he was gracious enough to take like a...

We went on... We credited ourselves as co-directors, but he really did everything. And it was like a low-budget kind of period piece based on a short story by a guy from the 50s named John McNulty. And he just wrote about drinking and about bars on 3rd Avenue. He was a real kind of East Side Manhattan guy. He wrote stories for The New Yorker.

He wrote about horse bet bedders and cabbies and drinkers and it was the easiest way to go was to just adapt this one story by him about two guys in a bar. What was it called? It's called Two People He Never Saw

it's on the internet it's me and an actor named Nick Sandow who's on orange is the new black uh-huh and uh it's pretty long for a short film it's about 25 minutes long and but you know we we uh shot it in this old bar in brooklyn i thought we kind of got at something with it. It's kind of hard to adapt that guy's material, but I take credit for it. I take the blame for it. Good.

Is it something you want to do more of? I do. I want to have another go at one of that guy's stories. I want to make kind of a 40s movie. What part are you looking for really in your mind when you because you know we started off the conversation by you know you talking about those organic performances of younger actors but also like being you know moved by terms of endearment and you really seem to have a specific sort of feel to you the role you're always looking for that right role.

What would you like to do? You know, I really, I'm not sure. Okay. You have to see it when, you'll know it when you see it. Well, you know, I did kind of, there's a part I played on this show that's coming up on TNT in August called Public Morals, and that's a period piece. It's set in 1967 it's about the NYPD public morals division of the NYPD in the mid to late 60s and the relationship between

the Irish gangster underworld and the police department that sounds cool I got to play a you know a character in that named Smitty who's a bookieie you know and uh i you know i i i felt like i was doing what i wanted to do in in that i was tapping into something i mean i i love james cagney and i love the old days you know and and and this kind of got in we got into that a bit yeah and that's not quite the 40s but it's you know going back yeah i'm getting there yeah right it's a guy I'm still digging my way back oh it's great okay well I hope you get there oh yeah no I'm good I'm good at digging holes getting at it on my gonna be another how your parents enjoying the good day that you know they you know they proud they like you sure sure they think sure. They get something out of it.

They do? I mean, I think, yeah. It takes a while, doesn't it? It takes a while for them to come. Like, my mother's now sort of like, I saw you on the deal. Now I can genuinely hear that she thinks I've done something. She's just coming to that. Last few years, yeah.

Yeah. Well, that must be gratifying. You know, better late than never. Do you feel that way about it? Last few years, yeah. Yeah. Well, that must be gratifying. You know, better late than never. Do you feel that way about it? Yeah. Yeah, sometimes. Sometimes. It's nice.

It's nice. Does she understand exactly what you're doing? Yes. She listens to the podcast all the time. She claims it's the only way she can know what I'm up to. And be with you. Exactly. Yeah.

Well, it's good. We both get along with our parents. Yeah, it's so boring. Is it? No, this is great, man. It was good talking to you. get along with our parents. Yeah, it's so boring. Is it? No, this is great, man. It was good talking to you. You feel good about it? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

We picked up pace. Yeah. There was a moment of panic there where you're like, this is going nowhere. No, I did. I did feel that way. I still feel that way. But, you know, I'm always going to feel that way, you know? Was there anything that you'd like to, Is there one last thing we need to do?

No, I had my shot. All right, I'll talk to you later. That was... I love that guy. He's a great guy. Like I said, I love that movie. I really enjoyed that movie. And now I'm going to...

Now that this is an eternal show between me talking about the Stones, it's not going to stop me from noodling. I have nothing planned here. Boomer lives! Boomer lives! Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing.

With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. bonus podcast episode where I talked to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth at a special 5 p.m. start time

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