WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 607 - Haley Joel Osment / Jerry Stahl

Episode Date: May 31, 2015

Haley Joel Osment not only survived being a child actor, he was one of the most celebrated child actors of all time. Haley and Marc talk about the massive run of success he had during his youth, why he left Hollywood, and why he came back. Also, Marc's good friend Jerry Stahl stops by to discuss Jerry's second chance at fatherhood. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton. The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5 p.m. in Rock City at torontorock.com. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category.

And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talked to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Lock the gate! all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fucking

ears what the fucksters this is mark maron this is wtf this is the podcast welcome to the show can i just reach out right here at the beginning to any of my listeners in the Chicago area? Look, I want to tape my special there. It's coming up this Saturday. I'm there for two shows. I'm at the Vic. Now, I know there's a threat of hockey. I'm taping this the day of the hockey game.

I know there's a threat of hockey. I don't know how that will affect my attendance. I don't know how that will affect the city. There's concern amongst the powers that be that perhaps i should move my special but i think i would like to prove them wrong i think i would like all of you people in chicago to come to my shows at the vic if you could you can go to wtfpod.com calendar for the links to those shows and get tickets please chicago i want to take my special there. I don't want to have to move it a couple of months down the line because of a sporting event. Or because you guys had something better to do.

This isn't a desperate plea. It's just I got it on the books and then someone worried me about hockey. You guys are going to know by the time you hear this whether hockey will be happening on this coming Saturday, the day of my special. Whether the city of Chicago will be in shambles because of hockey. Whether 90% of my fan base will just diminish that evening from my special taping to go to a hockey game. You'll know this Monday. And if there is no hockey on Saturday in Chicago, we are definitely doing the show. If there is hockey, there might be a question and you will hear from me. But as of right now, I'm coming.

So get your tickets, Chicago and surrounding areas, please. What else? Haley Joel Osment is on the show today. And before that, my buddy Jerry Stahl will be in here talking about his new lease on life and his new book, OG Dad. Jerry Stahl, the author of Permanent Midnight and many other books. But I think you should check into all of Jerry Stahl's work. This is a great and miraculous turnaround in the life. And we'll talk about that in a minute. is a great and miraculous turnaround in the life and we'll talk about that in a minute uh jerry was also a writer on the television show marin i i don't know if you're familiar with that show

the third episode aired uh just this last week that was uh that was very emotional some people asked me if those emotions were real the answer is yes they were they were real and i got a lot of closure from uh from processing that stuff in that, and I think I'm getting a lot of feedback from people in marriages, married people saying, dude, a little too close, cathartic, didn't know how to feel, helped out maybe, don't know. Good reviews. Very happy about the reaction to last week's episode and more people are watching this season which thrills me but this upcoming episode this week this thursday uh race gate it's called it's uh how can i give you a one-liner or two-liner pitch um that doesn't give the show away i decide that i there's not enough uh black people uh black guests african African-American guests on my podcast.

So I go to a black comedy club to feel it out, seek out some guests, see what's going on. I book Bruce Bruce on the show, which wasn't easy in the episode. And then after he leaves with his small entourage, there's something missing from the house. So it's the inner struggle and the outer struggle of dealing with that. That's all I'm going to give you. I will tell you Dave Anthony is in the episode. I will tell you that.

What the fuck do I need to talk about? You know, the great leveling is upon us you realize that the days of superheroes are coming to an end you know I saw a couple of tired superheroes in the last

week or so Bono, Mick Jagger the day of the superhero everything will percolate now because of delivery systems and the way the Bono, Mick Jagger, the day of the superhero. Everything will percolate now because of delivery systems and the way the media is so fragmented and spread out and the portals are so numerous. Everything's just going to percolate along at the same level with a few kind of explosions here and there

of people becoming transcendent. And then they'll just sort of drift quickly into the background as just another sort of like, oh, everybody got a real boost of adrenaline and excitement a few weeks ago from that thing. And a few people made a few billion dollars but it's behind us now when's the next thing on the percolating leveled out playing field of everything is just okay am i speaking in too vague a way what i'm saying is uh because we're so wired in to a hyperspeed of consumerism. Not much matters. Everyone's just feeding.

Just feeding. Not sure any of that made sense. It seemed to make sense to me. Maybe you can make some sense of it. All right, so I'm very happy that my buddy Jerry stopped by. I'm always happy to talk to Jerry. I talk to Jerry a lot, but not on the mics. And it's an amazing story.

Jerry Stahl, from a hopeless junkie to a hopeless hep C sufferer to now a non-hep C sufferer, completely healthy, new dad. Holy shit. It's a beautiful thing. So let's go to my conversation with Jerry. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising.

Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+. We live and we die. We control nothing beyond that. An epic saga based on the global best-selling novel

by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life. When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun. A new original series streaming February 27th exclusively on Disney+. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. Dahl. At T's and C's apply. Doll.

How's your child? What are your tasks around the house with the baby? First and foremost, try not to kill it. Uh-huh. No dropping. No dropping. Don't put it on the hot thing. Again.

Yeah. No spilling uh things i try not to infect it you know we've often talked about uh not being the guy who walks into a room and just like depresses everybody for no apparent reason suddenly they're like i don't know what happened right i was happy a minute ago yeah well oh that guy's in here yeah god the temperature just like yeah uh i don't want to be the guy who infects my kid with like you know toddler depression you know i don't want to give her tot pression so the alternate title but yeah uh so i you know i just work on being that fucking i'm the fun guy yeah i'm just the fun guy i think it's done i think as knowing you personally i think it's done wonders for your temperament in general yeah yeah i'm much

more tolerant of people who shit their pants. Yeah. Yeah. Anywhere. Anywhere. In life. In life. Metaphorically.

Yeah. Physically. So you could be sitting next to the guy and the smell comes. You're just like, it's okay, buddy. It's okay, buddy. Yeah. I got a baby. I got a little thing right here.

Yeah. Let me clean you up. Oh, look at that. You just go into the infant equipped restroom. Oh, look at that. You just go into the infant-equipped restroom. Lay the guy on a little... Put him out, a little diaper bag with you. Well, you know, I think the best investment since Pfizer came along with Viagra,

the one stock tip I never took, because I never took one, but the one I ever got. But, you know, boomers, if you see the ads for diapers now, there's like hipster diapers no come on absolutely you're making it up no really my mother's grave and you know how i feel about my mom yeah uh it's like you don't have to stop really don't have time to slow down yeah you know it's amazing and they're all kind of cool and they show like cool guys i've seen this it's on tv oh fuck it well because I'm up at night. Is it like a Depends angle?

Yeah, it's Depends. New Depends. It's New Depends and it depends for you. Yeah, with like the Grateful Dead Steal Your Face logo on the diaper or perhaps the Rolling Stones tongue, like the popular boomer musical groups. See, that's what I'm thinking. I think if you and I were investment entrepreneur types, more than what we are. You can make the sexy adult diapers.

Absolutely. Yeah. Crotchless diaper. Come on. It's for everybody. Not just for those people anymore. No, it's for us. Well, a crotchless diaper, I think,

would defeat the purpose. No, it kind of would, but I'm just, for special occasions. But maybe one with some lace. Oh, come on. Why do people shit their pants because they can oh yeah but i mean is there i guess that's because uh it's not all shit based it's prostate i think i think it's mostly mostly the prostate a lot of guys with dribbly prop

tater tots tater tots god damn it well you don't have to worry about that unsightly like you know i mean i've worn black for years people think it's a statement no no i just don't i don't want the fucking drip you're dripping come on i don't know it takes how long do you have to like shake your dick out after like i don't know that's the eternal question it is i see guys doing it for so long i think they're masturbating you know i know but like i understand it now because you know it doesn't matter how much you shake. There's always that one drop. Ah, shit.

Yeah, there's the stuff that's in the bladder. It's sort of like, no, I'm going to wait. I'm going to wait until he's all zipped up. Well, you know, I blew my kidneys out back in Hep C days. They were doing double duty. So now, I mean, I go to the bathroom. Then I either just turn around and go back, or I just walk to a different bathroom.

Oh, so, okay. But yeah, have you talked about that you you this is like an see to me when people ask me about jerry stall as they will because we work together you wrote on my show this last season yeah high point was a high point they're like well how's he doing i'm like i i don't know if i'm allowed to say it but he seems great seems great. Don't fuck with my reputation. You're killing me, man. Exactly. I'm like, you know, he's got this baby.

He kicked the Hep C. It's fucking like he's like a new man. People like him. He's fun to have in a room. That's crazy. I know. Well, you know, I had that. Does it bother you when I say that about you, though?

No, it's because it's the last frontier. I mean, you know, I had that grim revelation when I got cured. Like, geez, man, you'd like spent your entire adult life either strung out or ill. Right. Or dying. Well, most of the time that I knew you when we, you know, we did another thing together and you were just sweaty and dying all the time. Yeah, I know. Not a lot of fun to be around.

Horrible medicine. Well, that was, I think, a lot of it. I mean, do you even remember? Were you ever this free of that shit? Never. Free of dope and free of sickness no never wild never at the ripe age of 113 i've like emerged it was like hey i'm okay i don't feel like shit i thought feeling like that was the human condition was this feeling like warmed over shit yeah yeah because i think it has a lot to do with that thing you were talking about before the sort of like being uh heavy in the room or being the guy who's just a drag

well because you didn't feel well and you were like you didn't but i you know you you want to rise above yeah and just suck it up but you know i i wasn't suck up a bowl so so this is like to me this is amazing because like uh like i think i talked to you about writing a book. But obviously, you did your angle and you did it before I brought it up. Jerry Stahl, this is OG Dad, the new collection of essays. But like I thought, maybe there is this outside chance that you would actually become like almost a spiritual kind of Buddha-like parent that saw life completely differently now that you have a baby, but no.

You're saying I'm not? Maybe you are. Are you? On the inside. See, I think that guy- How do we get that out? Well, I think that guy would really depress the room. Come on, we expected worse out of you, Jerry.

The fucking Buddha, guys. Yeah, here we go. The wise one. You know, easy lotus boy but what but because you have a a daughter who's in her 20s 26 yeah that you were absent a bit during her childhood just say i was a dope fiend and then possibly even worse i was a celebrity dope fiend so i was the guy at birthday parties like the parents would herd their children to a different room.

Oh, there he is. Yeah. Oh, it's that guy. Don't get any of him on you, either psychically or otherwise. I heard him on Oprah. He's creepy. Yeah. Yeah.

So she had to grow up with that. Yes, she did. Now, with this- Riding buses. I was living in a garage, not to brag. I mean, it was- Riding buses to visit you? Yeah.

I would pick her up. I showed up miraculously, but not that know, not that that was necessarily a good thing. Oh, you took a bus to- I took a, or we would go to my garage on a bus and I would take her back. It was just like, oh, no knock on bus riders, but it's LA, so, you know, it ain't a prestige gig. Now, are you aware, are you sort of showing this one attention with a vengeance?

Well, I'm in the house, so there's that. Right. You know, I was kind of living at the corner of crack and eight ball so i wasn't doing a lot of dad i don't think i ever you know sadly really put my first child to bed or any of that stuff you know yeah oh really you know no recollection of that i don't recall it because i don't think i did it right but there's a lot i just didn't recall anything the screaming i just wasn't there i thought i was like kind of a good dad considering that i had a like a zillion dollar a day dope habit yeah stole fives out of her mom's purse every time i visited i mean i told you that story where like you know that poor her mother like got bust you know it's like somebody was using your

atm card oh really and i was that guy like, that's fucking awful. Yeah. And then they go to the bank and they have the tape. It's me. Do you recognize that guy? Oh, shit. My doppelganger. At it again. But now, do you...

I don't know what it's like to have a kid because I don't have one. But I have to assume you feel like with the baby, you're a little more clear in terms of the type of love you feel. Do you feel that love for the kid? Yeah. I mean, it's the great thing about a kid. I mean, you know, I love her. It's great.

Yeah. And it kind of makes me weirdly happy because it's so unambiguous. Yeah. You know, you love them unconditionally and you will disappoint them. Right. It's like, no. But why do you got to think of that second part now? Because it happens every day.

On some level, they're like, I hate you. How old is she? She's three. Already she hates you? Well, temporarily. She's my kid. Come on. She's got the genes.

Walking around wearing black. Only because she doesn't want people to see her drip. Yeah, exactly. It's not a fashion thing. You've given her the gift of self-awareness and insecurity. That is the worst. You know, seeing like the fashionista babies, you just want to fucking throw up.

Yeah. I mean, I don't love other parents. I'm not going to lie. Yeah. But, you know, I do have to get back to like the daycare where like when my first child was little, I kind of liked a little too much heroin and passed out in the bathroom when they found me.

At the daycare. I have to walk by that little bathroom every day. I'm like, wow. Yeah. Oh, it's the same daycare? It's the same place. So I've like fully boomeranged. Yeah.

Oh, so you're back in daycare. Yeah, they're like back. Oh, this guy's still alive? Yeah. He has a kid? You made it. Fuck. And how's your older kid take to the new kid?

You know, she's really taken to her now but i mean initially of course i mean who wouldn't be like nice you're showing up for her yeah nice yeah nice but she's she's a very cool kid i mean in spite of having me as a father she's a happy well-adjusted and i think the good thing kid and very beautiful your your first daughter but i also think that like uh it seems to me that you you made the right genetic decision with the with the current uh wife oh yeah yeah this one there were probably a couple wouldn't have been a good idea i mean now we're just gonna leave it at that this one no names please right i mean we all we know each other yeah yeah yeah sure uh history sure yeah this one looks like she comes from good stock. She, Finnish, Irish, you know.

Oh, good. That should have raised the junkie Jew right out of this kid. Oh, my God. This kid, forget it. Yeah. She's got a shot. She's got a shot. Yeah.

She'll spend a lot of time in saunas, but that's it. Oh, my God. Yeah, I think she has a shot. But you never know. I mean, the world is so grotesque now that, you know, roads are melting in India and every kid in America is getting blastoma from their parents leaving, you know, the cell phone near the head of the bed. So I'm like, is that true?

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I can't like, I'm not so horrible. I'm not up to speed on my, my topics of worry. You know, there's something about being selfish and detached from the current events in the news where it's sort of like, oh geez, there's a lot of things i should be feeling shitty about i mean the thing about us we're gonna be well out of it yeah but you know i just picture her like grubbing for cancer scraps you know when there's no water in 2030 it's gonna be fucking horrible is that when it's supposed to run out

of water oh we're out of water before then but the cancer scraps kick in oh earlier yeah all right jesus christ what is it oh let's not talk about that so let's talk about the beauty of the kid what's her name nico what now the process of writing this book this was a series of essays you were writing a series of uh columns aka blogs as the kids say in uh the rumpus and uh with a bunch of new ones and it started uh it started when the kid was born or when she was pregnant? No, before, in utero. Like, we were in Texas.

We had to go to have the baby in Texas because, you know, I got on this medication, which as soon as I got on it, this experimental drug, it's Cedars. The first thing they said was, oh, and by the way, if a pregnant woman so much as, like, gets a drop of your sweat on her epidermis, the kid will be born with, like, you know, flippers and a three-day beard. Yeah. So, you to go to texas to be away from me oh and so i when i was cured you know i i finally go there and we do like the obgyn stuff in texas and they had like never seen a jew they're like we're in the waiting room like um mr stale do you have the jew panel it's because there's diseases only jew you know it's like tasax and it's like creepy jew disease

yeah horrible yeah and you know everybody turns around i'm like they're gonna fucking yeah you didn't have tasax did you the tasax gene i think i would be dead yeah i think you live too long i don't know how i think that's from uh incestuous the orthodox get it right no man i think i think maybe they do i'm sorry i like i apologize i have no you know you can offend orthodox all day long i i try not to i hide my past yeah yeah i wear them on the inside you know what i'm saying your hair is curling on the inside everything's curling on the inside um so okay so it started in well you know it's weird is i when i when i've told siri to uh to find to Siri to call you, she does the full pronunciation

in German. She goes, calling Jerry Stahl. Nice. Siri does that. Siri does that. Stahl. Stahl. Stahlwerks.

In German, it means steel. Does it? As in S-T-E-E-L? In America, yes. That would be S-T-E-E-L. Not S-T-E-A-L. Nice pun, but I didn't, I was working my way up to stealing. I was more of a like, just shove it under my shirt and run.

So this is the big release for Father's Day. Huge release. Yeah. Come on, OG dad. I think eventually, I don't know if it's in's come on og dad it's like this is i i think um like i think eventually you know i don't know if it's in this particular book but but there will come a time where where you will shed all of the darkness absolutely and just become a pure light and you don't think i'm there yet no i i don't i i don't know what it would be like to hang around with you like that i don't

know generally people who who claim to be that are intolerable. But I feel, I mean, I have to say, I feel the same way about you. I mean, you've become a much lighter guy. I definitely have. I've known you for a long time. Yeah. We were not a bunch of like fun dudes. I mean, we were great for each other.

Yeah. We could one down each other all fucking night long. Yeah. No, right. I think when we both met, I was definitely aggravated and angry and uh and and not well in my mind and you were sweaty and sick and perfectly well in my mind yeah yeah but i actually learned like there was some there's a way that you kind of kind of when you are listening or something like i took some trick from you when i interview actually there's a number talking about this yeah

did i talk to you about it on the mics? No, not at all, no. No, there was just- I'm trying to remember what it was. Well, there's just a way that you kind of like almost, you have a boundary or something. When you listen, you just sort of have this gaze that's sort of flat.

It's a kind of detachment, but paying attention at the same time. Right, right. There's a detachment to it, but you're engaged. And I noticed that you did it and I learned how to do it during interviews. I think it's very,

it's like you're receiving, but you're not, you can't be read as judgment and it can't be read as like, you know, it's passive, but engaged. Well, I'll tell you where that started.

You know, I did journalism for most of my, like the 20s and 30s. It was pre-internet, so now it only exists in my storage bin right but um i was so fucked up that i couldn't really you know keep us you know i just would stare at people like i'd kind of do the forehead you know the concern puppy wrinkles right for the concern wrinkles yeah and just kind of nod once and people take that as vast concentration on the fascinating thing. But you were just trying not to nod off.

I was just trying like not to go away visibly. That's where that came from. Well, then ultimately, I don't know if you've learned this interviewing, but everybody has a story. And when they get to the end of their tape, whatever that thing is,

if you just shut the fuck up, there'll be like an awkward, horrific pause. And then they get to the real shit right have you found that like everybody usually it's right when i turn the mics off when it happens for me yeah that's when shit gets real yeah an hour and 15 minutes i'll turn the mic off and it's like yeah my dad shot somebody i'm like can i just did you not want to say that on there yeah i i know that about i've seen that happen yeah and, and sometimes I'll ask if we can get it back on.

Do you ever do that? Do you ever say, could you just like repeat what you just said and then you hit the mic again? Well, we'll start talking about something, like after I turn the mics off, and then I'll be like, did you not, I think we should talk about this on the air. And if they go, yeah, yeah,

and I'll just turn it back on and figure out a way to reset it. You know, I don't generally let them go through the whole story. I'm like, this seems like something we should be talking. Yeah, I've done that. I've done that. Yeah. I've turned it back on.

And then sometimes people are like, no, I don't want to talk about that. It's like, great. That's the most interesting thing about you. Exactly. I hate that more than anything. That is the worst. There are so many people who do that. Yeah, just sort of like.

Are we off the record now? Let me tell you. The truth. Yeah. And you're like, what the fuck did you just do for but they're off the record now. Let me tell you what the truth Yeah, and you're like what the fuck did you just do for an hour exactly? What would this write this thing? I know in bullshitting me for an hour and a half right and I got to know in my heart my mind that we were Skirting around this which this is what we were dodged just kind of insulting to you as an interviewer on some level What do you do about that? Nothing?

I mean, it's it doesn't usually give them the gaze of acceptance, right? And it doesn't usually mean that what you have is a lie. No. But it's avoiding. It's also less interesting than the truth. That's right. But people also know it when they hear it. Oh, yeah.

Oh, absolutely. They know when people are dodging or- Yeah, yeah. But I can't do that, setting the person up. Like, after we were done with this interview, she told me the truth about what happened. And this is sort of, I guess, a great example of someone dodging the truth. Enjoy. Because she told me about the thing with her dad.

Right. Yeah. But I can't tell you. See if you can feel the heat of it. Yeah. When she's talking about ice cream in the middle. Listen in between the words. Exactly.

Yeah. Well, people do. I think that's the nature of the medium. Yeah, but I mean, like you and Terry Gross, I mean, you got some amazing shit out of her. You have such a great gift for that. Well, it's funny,

but I also knew when she wasn't, it's like I knew when she was not going to go somewhere. I know. And you were very gracious, but you also didn't let her slide. No, I didn't. I couldn't. The first husband?

Come the fuck on. Who knew? Yeah. That guy. She was concerned. She's like, I hope you didn't. You didn't throw him under the bus. Not at all.

She didn't throw anybody under the bus. No, she didn't. But I don't know if you have that. I have this thing where I've done interviews over the years where it's like, I'm sort of already the leper because I'm like the junkie weirdo guy who has confessed every heinous thing. So people talk to you because I'm like outside the herd right you know what i mean and you are very honest about your emotional i get that too but not because of the same yeah well i mean i know that like i don't know what it is because it's not quite the same because

people also know that i i do have a public for that i talk out loud for a living right as opposed to a guy who just retreats into a corner yeah right the dark holder of secrets jerry stall a yeah business card dark holder of secrets aka the vault yeah the vault uh no but do i think that people because i'm i'm upfront about my own personal struggle, I think that enables people to think the same. Hell yeah. Because nobody else is doing that, really. Right.

But that's a lot of pressure, isn't it? To be like the guy that is sought out to be the confessor, and then you're sort of limited to the box. It's like- Well, it is. On one level, it's pressure. You could also say, if you want to be an enlightened asshole, that it's a privilege. Yeah.

But, I mean, I do know a lot of shit about a lot of people that I will take to the grave. Right. Because what else are you going to do? Well, that's, but that's what I always wonder about that, and the same with what I do, is that I don't socialize a lot. I mean, you and I have a good time. We hang out. We'll get something to eat.

We'll have some laughs. Yeah, you're kind of my best friend. Right. I don't know how often we even see each other. Right. Exactly. It's like, you know, when you're these guys, when you're the guy that talks about himself all the time or you're the holder of secrets, they're like, I'm not going to invite him

because he's just going to be standing there knowing all that shit about me and I don't want to be reminded of it. It makes me really uncomfortable, quite honestly. I actually don't like him. Yeah, I like him. I kind of resent what he knows now. About me. Because there is that.

Yeah. There's that thing where people like kind of turn on you because they know you know. Or you assume they do. They do know you know good point i could be projecting yeah i mean usually we are but there is a there is evidence that like i'm not i'm not i'm not invited that often do you know like i don't hang out with a lot see in your case i would argue that that's because people think you're famous you're successful he's probably busy i'm just like yesterday i'm at home uh you know just looking in my refrigerator nine times ten times sure uh snacking a lot and then like i finally got to a level of anxiety where i had no choice but to polish my boots nice yeah polish the

boots did three or four loads of laundry one of them wasn't even necessary we should have just done the interview while that was happening that would have been great but then i think like why don't i go out and why don't i give so-and-so a call and this gets hard to fill in that blank why don't i give a call i don't know who am i gonna call you know i where i could just sit here i mean i call you and we talk but you know you're busy but i'm just saying like what am i gonna do yeah i'm busy doing my laundry right so then i drive around and uh you know i go shopping and uh i'll go say hi to somebody at this i go to the record store to say hi to that guy i'm no different yeah i i i know all the checkers at gelson's a little too well right yeah i don't know you know that but i i'm better with

strangers you know absolutely all right so we're just loners by virtue of our gifts and and that's it and nothing makes for a better dad than like a creepy loner. Yeah, but you're home at least. I am home. I'm home now. Is the kid talking? Sure. Really?

Blue streak. What's she saying? She's lying a lot. That three? Yeah. Oh my God. It's like, is this the junkie gene kicking in?

It's like, yeah, mommy said I could like take the chocolate and just pretty much eat it all really uh already really i don't think that happened but that's what she knows oh my god the deceit really holy shit i don't i mean you laugh is it funny to you i i engage really when when did you say that really and um okay well and go ahead i guess good parenting mommy said if you're telling me the truth you know what if you're lying it's a good lie yeah yeah you got me you convinced me it's

really fascinating man the level of dishonesty and manipulation it's to get what they want to get what they want yeah yeah because when they're a little young she was a little younger she just turned three last it was tears was tears. It'd be like traumatic public screaming. Right, right. And can I just say that screaming in public, when you look like me and you have a little kid, it's like, they're not going to take my side. What did you do to her? We're just calling Amber Alert. But now it's all about fucking lies and manipulation.

It's beautiful. She's really good at it. Well, it's sort of interesting lies and manipulation it's beautiful oh she's really good at it well it's sort of interesting that that's the that's the instinct that like you have to teach that's something you have to teach them not to do yes get their needs met by any means necessary i mean i shouldn't be rewarding her giving her the chocolate it's there's so many i mean like i haven't read a lot of books yeah apparently why should you you? Swing it. Wing it. Go with your instincts.

But I mean, you never read how fucking boring it is sometimes. Yeah. Or the truly disturbing thing. And, you know, this could get us, but this is a reality of life. Both my daughters came out of the room. Yeah. And the womb, basically. Let's just say touching themselves.

Yeah. Let's just leave it at that. Right. And, you know know you don't you don't see that on the uh chicken soup for the baby books no the the sort of weird compulsive masturbatory habits of of toddlers yeah i've heard that i mean i think sure boys do it too i know i had a cousin that was you know very attached to the banister once she figured out how to i'm sorry i have to manage that i've got like the Ethel Merman laugh today.

I don't know why. Rubbing up against things. Oh, yeah. Look, why wouldn't you? Until somebody tells you to stop, what the hell? At what age is the cutoff where you can't just reach in your pants? I'm doing it now. No one ever told me.

I try not to do it in public. I'm not doing it now when I'm talking to you. Well, I see the table stops right about chest level. So I don't know. But that's my key to doing a good interview. I just got my hand on my dick all the time. He got really excited for a minute and then he just kind of petered. But I know when we first put her in diapers, she was like, what?

I'm like tapping it. Like, what the hell? Who shut the door? Oh, that's hilarious. Like, why is there an obstacle here? Like, why would you do that to me? It's my one pleasure. Oh, that's hilarious.

So she's a lying chronic masturbator at three. The masturbating is low. That's gone. Oh, it is? But not as much. I mean, I think she likes to hold her for security. Right. Sure.

As who doesn't? Yeah, yeah. But, you know, it's not, I think when you're a baby, it's like, what don't, you have no other, nothing else, shitting and touching yourself. No, you're going to have to figure that stuff out. So now, would you say that this book, OG Dad, is an effective baby book? Would this be helpful to parents?

Absolutely. You know, much to my surprise, and I didn't know the publisher was going to do this, if you turn the book over, it lists it as parenting. Does it really? And I kind of had a shit fit about that, but then I thought, you know what?

It is. I know. Parenting. I thought memoir, humor, essays. No, dude. I think this might be the right place for it. Yeah. Because I am the guy.

If they pick it up for the wrong reason, that would be surprising. Yeah. Why is he always talking about heroin? I don't understand. Very specific parenting experience. And yet universal. You know, it's also, you know, it's just, this was, it's weird shit happens when you don't die young. I mean, I didn't expect to be rolling back into dadhood.

But what the hell? But I, look, dad. You just called me dad? Almost. Knowing your dad, that's quite an ambiguous honor. Just call me dad. Almost. Knowing your dad, that's quite an ambiguous honor.

No, but I tell you, and I tell you honestly, I've never seen you happier and more clear in the eyes. Skin looks good. Thank you. You seem relaxed. You spent a whole season writing for my show. You were in a room with other people every day. I know. And we had a good time.

My first staff gig ever. And you were nervous about that originally. You're like, no, no, no. I think not as nervous as you. I mean, come on, be honest, motherfucker. I was like, no, I think he's doing, I think he's okay. He's better with other people now. I swear to God, he's not the same guy from a year ago.

He's not. Only a year ago. It's so true. I've lost, I mean, I look at my life and just the parade of embarrassing gigs and weird shit that happens. Because of your own discomfort, though. No doubt. Yeah.

Yeah. Projecting it and suffering and sleeping. Yeah, we had a good time. Everybody respected you and you did a great job and we had fun. Well, you got a smart bunch of guys in there. I mean, come on. It was a lot of fun. Yeah.

It's a lot of fun when no one has anything to contribute and we're just waiting for something to break and there's just like seven guys in a room. Tweeting. Yeah, tweeting, looking at their mail and then finally I go, what are we doing? What the fuck? What the fuck is happening? Every fucking week it's like this. And I stand up and I start, what are we going to do with this beat right here?

And I hate this gum. Yeah, yeah. Shit. That's writing. That's staff writing. I was really blown away by the fact that i had spent my entire life avoiding people i think i became a novelist not because i have any fucking talent yeah what else can you do like making a loan at three in the morning yeah

you know yeah um so being in with you guys is like wow yeah this is actually kind of great and here you are i guess to bring it full circle is that that you're 60 and there's a new lease on life. You have a new infant child and you begrudgingly are feeling better about things. And this book is the result of that. And a functioning liver, which makes it all possible. Now, do you regenerate that? No, it's just my virus was wiped out no i get that but does your are you do liver cells regenerate like is your liver growing now does that happen with the liver i can hardly sit down

it's so big uh or whatever does it does it get like whatever damage was done does that regenerate i guess is what i'm asking i think i still it's probably still got the consistency of an old shoe, maybe a little scarred. But you know what? I'm not spending all my energy fighting off death. Right. You have color, man. You have color in your face. I really appreciate that, man.

It's fucking great. And I'm happy about the book, and I'm happy for everything that's going on, man. Well, I'm happy we're still here kind of being friends. I mean, let's... We're better friends now than we ever have been. We have some good laughs, buddy. We do, yeah. All right, Jerry, thanks, man.

Thank you, man. Jerry, the book is OG Dad. You should look into all... You should read a lot of Jerryerry's books jerry is a uh a a powerful proseman a prose master the guy puts a lot into it man a lot of punch in the prose let his punchy prose punch you in the head. Right in the brain. So now, Haley Joel Osment, who's in the Entourage movie, which comes out on June 3rd. I hear he's very good in it. I've heard that.

But you know, Haley, from the sixth sense, I'm slowly stroking out. I'm slowly incapacitated mouthwise. But he was also in Forrest Gump. And Pay It Forward was a big one. AI, artificial intelligence, a big Haley Joel Osment movie. Oh, my God. Oh my fucking God. He was a kid actor.

You always wonder how those kid actors turn out with this kid. He's very level-headed. Nice guy. Let's talk to Haley Joel Osment. I'm only saying it like that

because I have problems with L's. Haley Joel Osment, now. How are you, man? Good, man. How you doing? So you're doing the one ear thing? Yeah, I don't know why. I've always done that. That's a professional trick. Is it? Where'd you first see the one ear cans move? It just came naturally to me. I've recorded done that. That's a professional trick. Is it? Where did you first see the one-ear cans move? It just came naturally to me. I've recorded this video game series since I was like 10 or 11. Yeah.

And I always just like to hear myself a little in the room. Yeah. So that was just a natural adaptation. Yeah. It just felt right. You were like, yeah, I can do this. Yeah. So the last time I saw you was on a rooftop in Hollywoodllywood that's right what was that for again that was a pre-emi party and i was there i believe

for the spoils of babylon and actually billy bob was there too we just finished entourage did you know you were doing entourage when you saw him at that thing we were right in the middle of it oh you were yeah so you were he's a an odd fella know, I didn't know what to expect going to work with him, and he's just the funniest, coolest guy, and also a great musician. Yeah. And one thing that was- He's got a rock band. He does, yeah.

I got to get him in here. Yeah. I think he gave me his phone number, if I remember correctly. Yeah, he would be a fascinating interview. He's had such a cool career. Yeah, he's, yeah. Well, I mean, he's just a guy, he's sort of in his own

time zone, that guy. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? You get around him and you're like, well, this is another planet here. It was nice because I play his son

in the movie and he has such a distinctive voice. I had to have this kind of thick accent for the movie and starting was his. We're Texans in the movie.

We've got Glock on the hip and horses and cowboy boots. He's from Arkansas originally, and that was a fun voice to come from. Well, you grew up in this. Your family's from the South? Are you Southern? I was born out here, but my parents moved out. They were both born in Birmingham, Alabama, and they moved out here in 1985.

That's real South. Yeah, yeah. Do they talk like Southerners? I can hear it a little bit with my mom, but since they, it's been now exactly 30 years since they moved out here. My dad, I can't really hear it at all anymore, but it's, you know, from family and everything, it's a very familiar accent. Although Alabama is an even, you know, thicker accent in a way than Texas.

Yeah. There's some pretty, how did, so Hallie Joel Osment. Yeah. That's the real name? Yeah, that is. And that sounds like some Southern history to that name? I guess maybe. We're Irish Catholic from the South. So a lot of like saints names, a lot of Michaels and Patrick's and everything. And my parents pulled both my sister and my names out of just a book, just wanted to put something fun together. So, yeah. Just a book?

Yeah. What's your sister's name? Emily Jordan Osmond. Well, it seems like she got an easier go of it. I guess. You know, Jordan's kind of unusual. Yeah, it is. Emily.

Hallie's odd. I have never met another guy with that as his first name. You know, a lot of girls, but very few people who actually have it spelled the same name too hayley duckle from the dirty projectors was spelled hayley is that is that what you say yeah i keep saying hallie yeah that's fine too no it's not they didn't know how to nobody knows how edmund hallie's name was actually pronounced is it hayley hayley yeah so hayley's the way to go hayley's the way to go but you don't correct people nah you know it's so i i have to correct

people when they spell my name wrong so did you have family down there i mean did you travel to the south oh yeah a lot yeah and when i was a kid we were out there at least every summer in birmingham in birmingham yeah it's like the more i go back to the south the more i fucking love it yeah and and birmingham particularly is a city that's having uh you know a lot of stuff going on in the downtown area. A lot of good food things going on there. Every little city now is reinventing itself with restaurants. The Food Network has changed the entire culture of America. Every fucking city of any size has their chef guy.

Exactly. Has their good restaurant. Their quote unquote good restaurant. Artisanal. Yeah. I was in Asheville shooting a movie a year and a half ago, and they were like, this is our locally produced wine. I was like, from the mountains of North Carolina?

Yeah. All right. Yeah. I was just there. Yeah. Asheville's a cool town. It is. I was only there for a day, and I didn't really get around, but it seems to be just this weird

little kind of old style hippie art town. It is. That actually has a longer history back than the hippies uh but they it just seems to be a kind of progressive little haven in the middle of what is a i am i assume a pretty red state yeah deniro's father actually painted at a commune or not a commune but so he lived and painted in your ashville really yeah for many years i believe uh-huh yeah but yeah Those Blue Ridge Mountains are pretty, man. Oh, yeah.

I never drove through there before. That was gorgeous. Yeah, that whole region. We were shooting a movie that had a lot to do with Civil War history in Appalachia. What movie was that? A film called The World Made Straight, which came out a couple months ago. And how'd that do? Where'd that go?

What happened to that movie? I believe we were well-reviewed, but it was just a small release. We had Jeremy Irvine in it, who's great, and Noel Wiley and Minka Kelly, and Steve Earle, which was really neat to have him. I know Steve Earle. Yeah, he's great. He's all right.

Yeah. He's made some good records, that guy. Oh, yeah, definitely. Was that the last movie you made? No, we actually shot that a while ago. I just finished a movie in the fall called Sleepwalker. And that has Richard Armitage and Anna O'Reilly, and that'll be coming out later in the summer.

What is that about? I play kind of a nasty stalker-type character who's sort of after this girl, the lead, Anna O'Reilly. What is this new Haley Joel Osment heavies? I know, man. What's happening? It's fun. I think growing the beard helped.

I don't know what I originally did that for. I think it was for the first season of Spoils of Babylon. And I think the last time I saw you, I probably had like a pretty long, pretty big beard. Yeah, you had a beard going. Yeah. So that's- But you were like the wonder kid. Yeah.

The gifted one. Yeah. And now you're like, you're playing heavies. Yeah, it's fun not being the, you know, moral center of the movie. You want to be the moral left of center of the movie. Yeah, somewhere around there. Well, I mean, how did that happen? I mean, so you were born in L.A.

Were your folks in show business? So you were born in L.A. Were your folks in show business? My dad moved to L.A. to work at a theater called Theater 3 on Santa Monica Boulevard. And he ended up being the general manager of that theater in the late 80s. Yeah. But my involvement in it was just sort of by accident. My mom was shopping at Ikea in Burbank one day. And they had one of those things where they had two casting assistants

taking Polaroids of every kid that walked in. Really? And yeah, and my- You say that like that's a regular thing. Well, it used to be. I don't think they do commercials like that anymore. And I remember going to these cattle call auditions as a kid. We'd have like a thousand people there.

So they were just scouting or they were literally- Looking for kids for commercials. For Ikea. Yeah. No, it was for Pizza Hut, but they were next to for kids for commercials for Ikea. Yeah. No, it was for, uh, for pizza hut, but they were, they were, uh, next to the like kids area of Ikea. So they were just like weird predator, like they were predatory casting agents. No, they were, it was nice.

Like young assistants, you know, the, I remember it was like nice, but they were scouting at Ikea. Yeah. Well, and, and, and next to like the ball pit, you know, where kids congregate. Yeah. Okay. So I think that's why they sent two women instead of two guys to go not fucking creepy yeah sure you're a casting agent yeah oh my god yeah so uh all right so you're just minding your business and they come out of nowhere and go

that's the kid i guess so it would two very immediate strokes of luck was was that one um where i was part of this um uh bigfoot pizza thing through for what was ultimately a terrible pizza promotion they had the bigfoot pizza which is this terrible thin crust pizza but uh the casting agent for forest you were unhappy with your first role i remember yeah i was well at least the product man yeah yeah they're disappointed with what you got behind but then it led to the casting agent for forest gump seeing it and i came in and read with them, and then read with Hanks, and then that was my first project was Forrest Gump. So the casting agent for Forrest Gump sees your shitty pizza commercial.

Mm-hmm. Does he take you to task for the pizza? No. Does he say, that was not good pizza? She did not. She did not take that with me. She was like, that kid's got something. Yeah.

So you're how old? Four. Four? Yeah. That's fucking crazy. I know, yeah. So you read with Tom Hanks at four? Yeah. So you're how old? Four. Four? Yeah. That's fucking crazy. I know, yeah. So you read with Tom Hanks at four? Yeah.

Do you have any recollection of that? A very, very clear memory of that. Yeah, yeah. I guess you would sort of have to in a way. Well, with that whole experience, one of the clearest memories of that shoot was I learned to tie my shoes on the steps outside our Holiday Inn hotel room

in Beaufort, South Carolina where we were shooting the Gump House stuff. Who taught you? My dad. Oh, he was there

on set with you the whole time? I think I'm giving credit to the right parents. Both my mom and dad came. Well, if that upsets

him, then you have bigger problems. How dare you say that your father just made up a voice for your mom can't be right can't be right all right so so oh that shoots where so that was in south carolina they shot all over the country but my stuff was in savannah and buford south carolina at the big house at the big house yeah

with that who was the woman that played your mom uh robin wright oh yeah yeah yeah which is crazy so all right so you remember learning how to tie your shoes and reading with tom hanks but was do you have memories of the set do you have memories of doing that work absolutely the first day i was there um it it rained a lot while we were down there and i believe it was production got delayed a lot and it rained so much that we opened the door to the trailer after like three hours of downpour and the area where they had base camp had flooded to like knee level on an adult so the the the pas were in waders carrying me above this swamp water to get to the set and and one of the first things we shot was that was the final scene on the bench where he opens a book and the

feather goes off and everything and and zemeckis and Hanks rewrote the scene a little bit on the last day, minutes before we shot it. And Hanks got this yellow legal pad and wrote out the new dialogue and my lines on it. We actually saved it. And I still have this little thing, you know, Hanks, handwritten sides for me. So that was it.

So he was a nice guy to you? Absolutely, yeah. Do you guys ever talk? I saw him a couple years ago. It was a while ago now, but I went and spoke at his AFI lifetime achievement thing. But yeah, he's a great guy. I always assume that everybody keeps in touch

and it's a ridiculous assumption. Yeah. So that's a pretty big movie to do out of the gate. Yeah. And then what happens? You do like a bunch of kids movies? No, I actually did a network television after that. I was on a network television after that.

I was on a show with Ed Asner called Thunder Alley. Ed Asner. Yeah, he's a great guy. He's a funny, cranky man. Yeah, he was terrific. So you did like, oh, you did a shitload of those. Yeah, I did that and then Foxworthy Show and then finally Murphy Brown, the last season of Murphy Brown. So I did like those three series kind of in a row.

But Thunder Alley and Foxworthy show, you did a lot of eps. Yeah. A lot of episodes. Two seasons each, I believe. Did they not last longer than that, basically? I think both were canceled after two seasons. That was it for that. Yeah. But you did a lot of little roles.

So you were just a working kid actor. Yeah. Before you became like the boy wizard in that one movie almost like uh so so now when you're doing that how are you because i i've only talked to a couple of you guys you freaks you freaks of nature you children actor people yeah i talked to uh seth green and you talked to amber tamblyn i I believe, right? Right. Yeah. Right. But you are the most prolific of the youngsters who did that as a child.

And you were, I think, a great actor. I think you still are. Thank you. I don't think you lose that. Did you train at all or did you just have this natural weird gift? Well, my dad studied theater in college. gift well my uh my dad um studied theater in college uh and he had a great uh um theater professor there named dr oliver link who studied at cornell where'd your dad go to college uh what was then west georgia college and now is i believe west georgia georgia university yeah became university but yeah they just did did you know godot runner stumble oh you know three penny

over everything and so he had had this great foundation in theater studies and theater acting. And so even from a young age, it was going through the script and, you know, character study and rehearsal and stuff like that. So it was a really good sort of foundation. You did that with your dad? Yeah, you know, and as a younger kid,

it wasn't quite so much going through and finding the beats and everything. But as I got older, and certainly by the time of The Sixth Sense, we would be going through the script, taking notes and all this stuff. So he was your coach. Yeah, yeah. And it was a really cool creative experience to do that. So he would help you make choices?

Absolutely, yeah. I think probably the best encapsulation of that would be when i was uh we first got the script for the sixth sense you know and it's a scary movie and all this stuff and we were talking about and he's like you know this movie isn't so much about you know being a horror movie as much as it is it's the people trying to communicate with each other and how frightening it is when you can't get across to somebody else right it's like oh yeah that's you know thinking about it in that sense made it a little bit deeper than things popping out and scaring you right yeah and he was always sort of there to do that like we're like crack the character with you yeah up through

high school yeah and because they're you know number one there's really strict laws about your parents always have to be on set with you and everything and i was very lucky to have someone who actually had studied acting and you know could be could be, you know, helpful in that way. Do you feel like he was living his dream through you a bit? No, I think he, you know, he certainly was happy to, you know, have this happen for his kids. And he had, you know, he has his own career. He ran that theater in. Yeah, but he's not a movie star. I mean, that's there's there's pluses and minuses with being in movies.

Yeah. I mean, there's pluses and minuses with being in movies. Yeah. Because I went and studied theater in college and was doing a play in Philadelphia as recently as 2011 when my wonderful management and agent were like, can you please come back to Los Angeles and audition out here and do that stuff? Well, let's talk about that.

So did your father, was he always supportive or did he warn you of the possible pitfalls of hanging your hope in life on show business? Well, that was definitely the thing from the beginning, especially when I was a little kid, was if you don't like doing this, you can quit tomorrow. And even with those credits and everything, one thing that's funny to remember now is that those movies you do like six to eight weeks. And then I was in regular school the whole time then you had a light so my primary memories of this is regular you know elementary school regular elementary school and regular high school and all of that but yeah both my parents i think um especially when the sixth sense sort of changed everything were concerned about you know me being able to have privacy being able to you know maintain that kind of you know

keeping my feet on the ground and going to to college, that always being the end goal, was something that I think really solidified that. So through all this, you were in your mind saving for college in a way. That was the first thing I ever spent any money on. Yeah. But you put a lot of money away. Yeah. Well, that's the law here.

It's the Coogan Law. So your money all goes into a trust fund until you turn 18. The Coogan law? Yeah. The Jackie Coogan? Jackie Coogan, yeah. Oh, so your parents can't touch it? Nobody can. So that's to protect you from your parents, basically. If necessary, yeah. Oh my God, that's too much. And what did your mom do? She was and still is a sixth grade teacher. Here in town? Here in town, yeah. Yeah, in Montrose.

I think that's not too far from here, right? No, not too far. We're 20 minutes away. That's about the last year that it's probably a fun thing to do, to be a teacher. It gets more and more challenging every year, just because now with smartphones and stuff, there's a lot more that kids get. Well, you know, that's really, I think think she is described as like it's kind of the last age where you can really you know connect with the kid before things get kind of solidified in middle school and high school and yeah it's it's a it's a really really tough job yeah and

they you know there's you know they don't always have class size regulations and things like that so she can have a you know up to 40 42 kids in the class at one time, which is chaos at that age. That's crazy, but she still chooses to do it. She loves it, yeah. She taught in Alabama. She taught kindergarten and first grade briefly at one point, but sixth grade is usually the age she goes for. Alright, so the big movies were, for you, were the Sixth Sense, Pay It Forward, and AI. Yeah. Those were the big ones. Those Pay It Forward, and AI. Yeah.

Those were the big ones. Those were probably, yeah, probably the most widely seen, yeah. And you played different variations of a sort of slightly disturbing child. In different ways. Yeah, one wasn't a child at all, I guess, by some measure. What, AI? Yeah, AI, that was pretty different. But maybe disturbing but no i

mean i don't mean disturbing just emotionally sort of uh you know painfully aware and and and yeah and troubled but but intense i think is the word sure intense yeah and that we just naturally like that i get i mean it really comes from the material because this you know when the six cents came about i was also doing like you know a half hour network comedy at the time and you get a script like that and it's like oh you know it's a lot to think about and particularly

I remember the first time reading the script for AI which was a very very very powerful script and I was 12 when I first read that and that was really a script I remember where you're like oh I gotta think about things in that context though because it's an epic that sort of 12 when i first read that and that was really a script i remember where you're like oh i got to think about things in that context though because it's just it's a an epic that sort of encapsulates the entire end of humanity and everything and uh which is a lot to think about

yeah it is generally on any day that's a lot especially now yeah so when so you're 12 when you first see that yeah when i first heard that. So when you sit down with your father, what was the conversation around that? That one, we... I don't remember talking so much about the overall philosophy of that movie or whatever. What we worked a lot with on that one was that there's a big specificity to every movement that he makes.

And there's that great first scene when he comes in and he's close on the shoes. That whole first act of the movie, which is so expertly done by Stephen, is all about those little specific things as he sort of grows into this sense of humanity. And yeah, I just remember going at home, practicing the toe taps

and the movement of the head and everything. And the not blinking, which became sort of a thing that we kept going for the whole movie so oh really no blinking he never blinks until he closes his eyes at the end yeah how did you fucking do that i guess a take is a take like you know how long is it practice but it was you really it's like yeah takes in movies aren't that long right so right you're not you know the initial thought is like how do you keep your eyes and hiding it from when you turn away from

the camera or something like that, a whole bunch of stuff. But actually, I was just doing a music video for John Wayne where I'm lip syncing underwater and I was like, oh, I remember this

because in AI we were underwater and not blinking and in this music video I have to kind of do that. That was an eerie shot. Yeah, yeah. Now, Spielberg, working with Spielberg,

when you're entering into that, it must be sort of like, oh, my God. What was the audition process for AI? We just met for that one. So he had you in mind? Yeah, I believe so. Yeah. So we just met and talked about it in very vague terms because we didn't get the completed script for a while because there was a lot of secrecy around that one. That was originally

a Kubrick script, right? Well, or no, that was Minority Report. Was it AI? It was AI. Kubrick was involved. He and Spielberg

had known each other for a while and Kubrick came to him and said, I think this is closer to your sensibility. Let's make this a, I believe this is the quote,

a Stanley Kubrick production of a Steven Spielberg film. So, Steven was always going to be the director for it. And then Stanley died. Right before we got started yeah and and an additional you know a bit of tragedy with that is that according to christian kubrick i've heard her say that he was sort of

getting fed up as being thought of as this recluse and this kind of eccentric guy and uh um was planning on maybe doing a little bit of press, maybe coming to America, maybe sort of starting a new chapter in his relationship with the rest of the world, which I think is a sad thing to have missed out on, if that was the case. Yeah, or not. I mean, maybe we all want to keep him sort of secluded. In that mysterious... Did you see the

exhibit they had two summers ago? Yes, I did. Oh, my God. At LACMA? That was incredible. It was amazing. Oh, yeah. And then, have you seen that weird documentary about The Shining of all the people? Yes. Yeah. What is it called? Room 137?

Room 237. Yeah. I really enjoyed that. That's crazy. Yeah. There's a great essay in Harper's. I think it's Jay Roach. I apologize if I get the author wrong, where he's talking about reviewing that film and

some traumatic memories from his childhood and he says the shining is becomes this movie that is just this expanding black hole that absorbs all context until everything is just referencing this one you know i'm doing the quote but i kind of like i love thinking about the movie in that way is that it's so large that you know and it's so uh expertly done and you know in formal terms that it can just absorb anything you want to put into it even oh i see what you're saying right yeah yeah yeah yeah oh yeah it's so precise in a way and so but leaving enough uh it's that movie really fuck with my head yeah i mean one a couple of them are just nuts but one of them was sort of like man it is kind of weird yeah uh how intentional was that yeah and well and there's the thing is that when you when you're so good at choosing the people to

collaborate with and you're so good at choosing the people to collaborate with and you're so good with those technical things that even accidents sort of start to be because there's the one, the first time you see the two,

a flash of the two little girls in blue and the blood coming out of the elevator. Right. The music that's playing, I didn't think about this until very recently.

The music that's playing is the Penderecki piece, The Awakening of Jacob, which is a story in the Bible where he has the dream where he sees the angels moving up and down the ladder and it's this it's god's promise of good things on earth wow and i was like oh there's two girls maybe those the two angels instead of a ladder to heaven kubrick's is an elevator of blood coming up from hell which is just like but i don't know if that's the intention and he had a music supervisor i

don't know if he chose that piece of music well that's that's yeah yeah that's the interesting thing about those coincidences is that uh you know was kubrick someone said i think in that movie that he was operating on so many levels of genius you know that like he was playing chess on three different levels yeah that he had that kind of brain yeah but still it seemed like an awful lot to manage and maybe it was just serendipitous that he was so in in sync with his people who were making decisions. But like around that Calamette flower, the sugar, whatever it was, the Indian. Oh, the Indian?

Yeah. Or just that the hotel doesn't make any physical sense. Have you ever seen the, well, they talk about in the documentary, where nothing fit, the gold room doesn't fit. Everything is changing all the time. Extras in the first scene when people are checking out of the hotel are walking into you know blank walls and things it's just absolutely insane how he he had a map of the hedge maze because they really built it and yeah and they said that you know the crew would get it and then stanley would come in on the weekend and change it

so people would walk in and get lost and they'd just hear his booming laugh from the over way in the maze. Yeah. Someone who's got that enjoyment of trapping people. Yeah. I'm just sort of fascinated with the idea, you know, with set deck in general and how things work out. I guess if everyone's operating at the best of their ability and they're all gifted people, you know, you're going to get something amazing. How did you know that about that song? I am a big fan of radiohead and johnny greenwood

who does some classical compositions i don't know if you could strictly call it classical he does a lot of stuff um he was a big fan of uh christoph penderecki and then who is christoph penderecki he was an avant-garde i believe he's maybe still alive uh-huh an avant-garde polish composer okay very dissonant uh i don't know music theory but but it's very specific. It's related to like Ligeti and all of those other composers, the 20th century composers that he did. So he's one of those guys that's sort of not a noise guy, but a trippy guy. It can sound really dissonant and everything. Like the moon bus in 2001, that really eerie choral thing that's going on.

But yeah. So you dig that music. I really do. But you thing that's going on. But yeah. So you dig that music. I really do. But you also know that Bible story. Yes. At the time I was reading the, I think it's in this one, Harold Bloom's The Shadow of a Great Rock, where he's going through the Bible and the Torah

and just talking about it in an aesthetic context. Just in an aesthetic context? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's taking out any sort of religious things and just talking about it in an aesthetic context. Just in an aesthetic context? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's taking out any sort of religious things and just talking about the presumed authors of, there's like the J writer, and trying to trace the sort of clues into who wrote various,

who may have written various portions of the Torah and the Bible. And then comparing that to like the King James book and the choices that people made in translation. What'd you learn? A lot. I haven't finished that one yet, but talking about the committee of men that put together the King James Bible was just a fascinating group of people who just had to make these

decisions. And one thing that sticks out is he calls, Harold Blum, he says that there's the terse coiled energies of Hebrew that had to be translated into English rhythms and everything. So yeah, it's a great book. He's a good writer, that guy. He is, yeah. He's a literary critic. Yes, yeah.

So, I've not read much of him. I've read a little. I've slowed down on my reading in general. It's hard these days. Right? When I wake up and I spend 20 minutes on Twitter and I'm like, oh, man. What the hell happened? I just got started with that a couple months ago.

I got the attention span of a child. Yeah. But what kind of religion were you brought up with? Our whole family going back is Irish Catholic. Are you 100% Irish? A little bit of German and a little bit of English, I believe. Were you practicing Catholics? Yeah, the family was.

Yeah. And so you went to the whole church business here in L.A.? English I believe did you were you practicing Catholics uh yeah the family was yeah yeah and so you went to the whole church business did the here in LA uh Catholic Church in LA yes yeah my parents are married in Birmingham but yeah yeah yeah but I mean but yeah but I mean so you went to church as a kid we did yeah made time for that we did along with school and shooting movies it was yeah busy schedule yeah do they still go? Yeah, they do. Oh. Yeah. We all go at Christmas and stuff. Oh, yeah, Christmas.

Oh, the big day. Eastern. Yeah, the big ones. Yeah. So you're brought up with the Catholic faith, which is a very ornate and- It is, yeah. Lyrical. Yeah. Is that the word I want?

Sure. Elaborate. Elaborate. There's a lot of pageantry. Yes, that's right. Do you still practice, kind of? Me, not so much, no. Let it drift? Yeah, it's a nice,

it's kind of, it's like having that cultural identification. Sure, yeah, I know. As a Jew, we have that as well. Yeah. So getting back to Steven Spielberg, so as a director, how'd he handle you? He's extraordinary. Yeah. And someone who to this day will send a note on birthdays and graduation.

Really? To someone who's, you know, digital Rolodex must run into the hundreds of thousands. He really keeps up with people and is, yeah, just really cool that way. Yeah. And how did he direct you? What was, like, you know, it seemed like you were putting a lot of work into your physicality and making decisions with him around the not blinking and stuff. Yeah, I just remember one of the great luxuries of working on a movie like that is that we went to his home, me and Jude and Francis O'Connor, and were able to rehearse for days with him.

And I remember him having me and Jude walk around his pool in the Hamptons. Yeah. Because we had, because Jude had done extensive kabuki and ballet and months of dancing lessons for his, because he played a male prostitute robot. And so they were trying to find a good thing because my character walks in a certain way and Jude walks in a certain way and we had their electronic teddy bear. We all wanted us having a kind of almost Wizard of Oz-ian. Wizard of Oz-ian.

Did somebody bring that up? No, that just came to me. Oh, Wizard of Oz-ian. Wizard of Oz-ian. Did somebody bring that up? No, that just came to me. Oh, Wizard of Oz-ian. Yeah. I like it. Yeah. I wonder if he was thinking that. No one brought that up on set, huh?

No, no. That's kind of funny, though. Maybe. It's a long time ago. I don't want to take credit for it. No, but like, because Spielberg is his own genius. Yeah. How did that sort of show itself when you were working with him?

What was the moment where you're like, oh, God, this guy's... We were working simultaneously on, I believe, four sound stages and had a significant portion of the Warner lot sealed off for us. And on the call sheet, just hundreds of crew members. And he was able to walk from set to set doing work here, a little bit of work here, a little bit of work with me, a little bit of groundbreaking work with CGI, with ILM, and to do it with a very even-keeled, calm manner.

It was crazy to watch. And also would be someone who Al Gore would call. This was during the election in 2000. You know, Mr. Spielberg, the vice president's on the phone sort of thing. Tell him to wait. Yeah. So, yeah. And he also, you know,

he works with a lot of the same crew and the same ADs and wonderful producers and Kathleen Kennedy produced that one. Right. And yeah, it's just a really great thing to be a part of. So, Night Shyamalan, what do you think happened to that guy? Oh, he's been very successful.

I just saw him recently. Oh, this is a question you've been asked before. No, I really enjoyed his movies and particularly Unbreakable, I think, is really an appreciate.

I love Unbreakable. Yeah. But that was before yours, wasn't it? No, that was after. Oh, it was right after. Yeah, it was sort of a very dark superhero movie

years before that became a big thing. Yeah, he was five years ahead of that stuff. And that was Bruce Willis, too. That was Bruce Willis as well, yeah. Yeah. How did you like working with Bruce? I loved it.

Yeah, he was great. Is he a pretty, what, solid dude? He was, yeah. A lot of fun. Does he send you a birthday card? He did. We went to Japan together for the press tour. And yeah, just a really, really cool guy.

Now, when did... Okay, so working with Spacey, too, that must have been sort of an education somehow. That was really cool, yeah. Because he seems to be a very disciplined, kind of interesting actor. Yeah, very, very poised. Yeah, a lot of screen presence with that guy.

Yeah, he's really amazing. And yeah, I see him from time to time, too. Yeah? He and the family really got along really well. Oh, yeah? Yeah. And Helen, too. Now, when did your parents time to time too. Yeah? He and the family really got along really well. Oh, yeah? Yeah. And Helen too. Now, when did your parents stop going to sets with you?

What movie was that? Well, it was because when I did Secondhand Lions with Michael Caine and Robert Duvall, I was 14 when we shot that. And then I went into high school really intensively. Duvall, those two guys are heavy. Yeah, that was amazing. Yeah. And we just had like 56 days at this one ranch in Texas.

Just the three of us most of the time. And yeah, that was really special. Did you get any wisdom from those two? Yeah, both of them. And Kane's stories were about acting, but also he fought in the Korean War. He's telling stories about meeting up at some midway point before he went to Korea with the British Army and meeting American GIs on the way to Vietnam.

Really? Where are you going, Korea? Where's that? Where are you going, Vietnam? I don't know. Yeah. You know, and seeing, I remember, if I'm remembering correctly, he's talking about seeing human wave attacks from unarmed Chinese soldiers and stuff. So a crazy, crazy life.

Right. And with Duvall, I don't think I've ever met someone who is so protective of the other actors and protective of the process in that we had a scene where he's in a nightgown in a freezing lake. We're shooting it late at night. We shot his stuff first

so he could be dry and get out of the lake. And they turned around on me and they brought him his coat. He goes, no, no, I'm going out there and did his off-camera stuff. 75 years old, standing in freezing water just for my off-camera stuff.

And that's commitment. Yeah. Respect. And you just see like a tradition of that, of, you know, someone who has been protecting the actor's process for, you know, decades. Oh, yeah. I love that guy. Yeah.

And then after that, you say you just walked into school for a while? Yeah. Applying to college is crazy. Right. So with, you know, a lot of like APs lot of APs and the sort of extracurricular stuff at school that you need to build your college resume, basically sophomore, junior, and senior year of high school, I was just there the whole time. And then by then I was 18, and since then it's just been me on the road. Yeah, but the plan was to go to college.

Always, yeah. And to study acting. Well, but the plan was to go to college. Always, yeah. And to study acting. Well, that I actually wasn't sure of. I applied to a variety of schools, and it took until the college trip on the East Coast and just going to NYU and going to the building where I ultimately go to school for five years. I just had this feeling there of, oh, this is where I want to be. You went to NYU? I did, yeah.

Yeah, and the visit there, there was a lot of really beautiful canvases, visited a lot of good schools, but NYU's building was like, oh, there's work happening here. Right. And the guy giving the presentation was about to go run off and, you know, run some production or something. It was nice.

What was the program you were in over there? The Experimental Theater Wing. Oh, yeah? Which is, generally speaking, comes from the theater work of Jerzy Grotowski, who's another great Polish artist. Uh-huh. So, yeah? Which is, generally speaking, comes from the theater work of Jerzy Grotowski, who's another great Polish artist. Uh-huh. So, yeah.

And what does that work and require? What was nice is that at Tisch, there's several studios, a lot of studios, and one is the Stella Adler studio, one is the Meisner studio, there was a Strasberg studio, all under those philosophies. All within NYU?

Yeah, and the musical theater and all sorts of stuff and at etw uh there was a i think the greatest available variety for stuff so we did like afro-haitian dance and uh and bogart stuff and mary overly's viewpoints i don't know what any of that is uh it's a lot of like mary overly is this great minimalist theater artist and she had created these six um sort of stems with which you could evaluate and describe and choreograph minimalist uh um uh physical work you know among other things and that fed into self-scripting where we would just have like a four-hour class in the afternoon and you'd either start with a movement or a situation or just a power uh unbalance between two actors

or something and find this nugget of an idea and then quickly spin it out into something else. So this is like antithetical to Hollywood. Yes, yeah, and that's why they place you in it. I mean, this is barely usable. No, but it really... No, no, I just mean like this esoteric theater, like experimental theater is... No, but it really, it, it, it. No, no, I just mean like, you know, when that this esoteric theater, like art, you know,

like experimental theater is, is obviously it exists and it should exist and it's great sometimes, but when it's not, it's, it's horrendous. That's the risk. Yeah. So what were these other things? So there, that was at the, that the Bogart technique, what were the other things you mentioned? Well, with, with Grotowski, who was probably the biggest influence, a lot of our professors had studied with him in France in the 60s and 70s.

And his stuff is difficult to put into words sometimes, but one thing would be like plastique. So you'd have these very specific repetitive physical movements that are done in an exercise. And then, you know, there's, you know, emotionality comes into it. And you can, you might have a scene that you're working on with a partner, but it sort of can detour off

into these physical movements and everything. And we're doing a lot of contact improv. We had people who'd been involved with the Judson Church dance community, which is some really forward thinking choreography and stuff. So yeah, just a really, really fun environment to be around. But like, what was, what did you think you were going to sort of pursue out of that?

It's funny to remember now is that I just knew that going to college would be important and to study with people my own age, which I hadn't had the opportunity to do a lot when I was doing- As an actor. Yeah, as an actor. And I was going to see how it was. And I wasn't sure if I would be staying. And one of the great things about NYU is that they were very accommodating to allowing me go to go

off and do um uh work uh you know i did an independent film in 2008 although as soon as i did that and this play on broadway i had so many credits to make up i was like i'm just gonna stay and finish everything what'd you do on broadway uh american buffalo the man of play yeah oh yeah i've seen that before i've. I've seen that done. Duvall, I think, was in the original production. Was he? Yeah. Yeah.

Oh, he played Teach. He did. Yeah. So that makes sense. Yeah. And who was, was that Pacino? I believe so. I can't know.

He might have been the LA. I saw Pacino do it in Boston. Yeah. Oh, nice. But that was, it was a revival already. Yeah. I wonder who originated. So how long did you run with that?

We only ran like a month, I think. Didn't catch on? We did not get good reviews. It needed to be a little bit tighter. You played the Junkie? Yeah. And who played Teach? John Leguizamo.

Really? Yeah. And who played the other guy? Cedric the Entertainer. So that's a clown show there. No, it was, you know. Cedric's great. He is.

John's okay. But I just mean like, you know, there's a lot of ways you can play that. It is. And the main thing is that it needs to at least be tight. And we had a really short rehearsal schedule. And it just, you know, after we got bad reviews, we started knocking 10 minutes off the running time and started to actually pick up and everything. But it just, you you know it needed to be a little bit tighter when it came out so okay so you now when you go out into the world and you're doing this stuff are people like that as

a kid from the thing sometimes yeah yeah that's the you know it's the double-edged sword of being in a film like that is that you become so strongly identified with it but i also am you know i'm lucky enough to where it was so long ago that you get older and you know now you were just you know talking earlier about playing you know the heavy the bad guy and right but it's weird like you know this well I mean it's not like it's not quite like Macaulay Culkin

but I mean but your face and you're the idea there's something about making an impact as a child actor that people just can't seem to forget it takes a while so i imagine that people look at you and they're just sort of like oh there's a he's in there that kid's in there still i see him in there perhaps but uh was that was that challenging for you to like on an ego level i mean obviously it seems to me that that going to NYU kind of buffered the transition yeah

but uh was there like sort of uh did you feel it like where did you feel like like did work slow down at all or did you I mean I didn't appear in a lot of things between 07 and like 2012 there's like a four or five year period but that was it was nice because it was you know I was very busy in those years on that stuff. Right. And it's, you know, I just, I didn't have any really concrete expectations of, you know, what the career would be like. Just, I wanted to be in a position to continue to make different work. And I always wanted to make work of my own, which we had the opportunity to do at ETW and develop stuff that I want to work with now. I wrote and directed a play for my final project in my final year,

which is an idea that I may be, you know, turning to something else hopefully soon. But, yeah, just, you know, and normally like I always – You can't talk about it? Not yet because I'm hopefully going to be coming out with it soon when we're through Entourage and all that stuff. To do a movie? A series actually.

Oh, yeah? Because when I was in college, I was still writing something that would be thinking of a screenplay or a movie, and now this is just such a fertile time for series. And having watched all these shows now, thinking of ideas as something that can unfold over a number of years is kind of appealing.

Sure, you've got to wait a year for the next season now. Right, yeah. With some things. Yeah, I know. I didn't know that Mad Men still had some closure to do. Yeah. I was like, didn't that end? Yeah.

Oh, yeah, because they do the half season. Yeah, yeah. I was like, how long ago was that? I know. Okay, so you're going to do that. Yeah. And that was born out of your experimental theater years. It was certainly shaped by it.

I'd always wanted to write things, but just in the process, like when I would write a screenplay or something when I was younger, it would be you'd have an idea for a story and you have the beginning, middle, and end, and you try and write through that. And with ETW, we would just come up with these, like you just have a strong character

or an idea or something kind of loose and sort of work outwards from the middle and find out where that character has a home. And that, to me, in the writing is really suited you know a series idea for things that where you may not know what the end point is yet but you're starting and you built this character for this series out of improvisations and experimental yes they began with uh you know some of them did yeah and like like have you directed before i mean have you done any directing film directing or anything no i would love to do that. But just that one thing in college is the only thing I've directed.

But I would love to do it again. So in a way, you're kind of like this is a whole new start to your career. You're still like a young guy. Yeah. How old are you? 27. That's crazy, man. Yeah.

I mean, I feel like you've been in movies for decades. It's crazy. It's nuts, man. Now, are you married? No, not married. No, I've got a girlfriend right now, but not married, no. And how's it like? Didn't you get in some trouble a little while ago?

About 10 years ago, yeah. Does that still hang on you? Do people say that? No, people have been good about it, you know, and it was a terrible mistake, you know, wrapped my car around something. But, yeah, it was like 10 years ago, and it

shouldn't take a lesson like that but uh of course it should lesson learned yeah were you in a situation where you were out of control no it was just a bad night high school recklessness yeah and it's just you know this is la and you know you're driving from place to place and shouldn't have been driving you know yeah and what and what do you do like on, what are your day-to-day sort of shit that you do? Now that you're just doing promo for a movie now. Yeah. What's your life look like? Do you write?

Yeah, writing out here. It's harder for me and it's so stupid, but I prefer to live in New York. I still have a place out there. You do? Yeah, and I just fell in love with that city. And weirdly, a lot of the people I grew up with that I was friends with in high school

are also on the East Coast now. So it's odd coming back and working in LA and it's like, oh, all those people I knew here. So you spend most of your time in New York?

When I can, yeah. I was there for about seven years completely, you know, almost every day. You just bought an apartment over there? Yeah, yeah. And still got it.

That's nice. Yeah, yeah. So I love working there. But this season, been writing in the, this early part of 2015, been writing in LA. We just did the second season

to The Spoils of Babylon, which was a lot of fun. Oh, on IFC, on the work on our channel brothers yeah um and uh yeah that's with uh will ferrell and kristin wigg and michael k williams and my rudolph and everybody wrote on it no it's uh andrew steel and matt piedmont wrote it um yeah yes andrew steel from snl yeah they both they both were on a on snl yeah yeah. Yeah. Did you host SNL? No, I have not. Oh, God damn it. Yeah.

Yeah, I would have thought that you would have done it when you were a kid. Maybe. I'm kind of glad I didn't do this again. Yeah? You think it would have fucked you up? No, it's just like, that's a big, that's a huge honor. I'd love to do it with, you know,

just as the brain of an adult, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. You seem to be appearing in movies that I don't know. What happened to Sex Ed? That had a release and I believe should be streaming pretty soon. Yeah. Yeah, we had a great cast.

We had Matt Walsh and Retta and Lorenzo Izzo. Very funny. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And what's the other movie? What did you shoot in Nashville? In Charlotte, which is not quite as interesting in Nashville, doing Tusk last year. What is Tusk? It's the Kevin Smith movie with Justin Long and John Depp.

Oh, that's right. Yeah, about the podcast. There's a podcast right now. That's right. Yeah, it is a podcast-y one. And how was that? How was working with Kevin? He's great.

We all got along so well that the whole cast came back for a second movie that we just finished in the fall, Yoga Hosers, which is Johnny's back for that and Justin and Genesis just finished in the fall um uh yoga hosers which is johnny's back for that and yeah justin and genesis and everybody so what is that about i play a canadian nazi uh in one part of the story a real character named adrian arcand yeah this nasty guy in quebec in the 30s was a hitler admirer and then so this is based on fact uh yeah my character is based on a it's a heightened version of a real horrible guy that actually lived in Canada.

And then the rest of the movie is... Can't give too much away, but it's kind of a spinoff of Tusk in that there are two characters who appear very briefly in Tusk, and then this movie is sort of what's happening to them while the Tusk storyline is happening. And, like, are your folks still around?

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I just saw my dad today. My mom's still teaching. Yeah, we talked about that, but your dad's still. What's he doing? Absolutely. He and I work on houses. He worked in construction.

He built the Santa Monica. He was a foreman on the Santa Monica Pier Arcade and the Japanese American Museum. Was this after the theater? Yeah, after the equity wars and the theater shut down. So, yeah, he's... So you work on houses? He remodels houses, yeah.

And he's a great designer. Not flip them, but just remodeling work and stuff like that. And you do that with him? No, we just invest in things together, yeah. Oh, okay.

You're not like... So people who hire him to do their house, they don't come home and say like, isn't that Howie Joel Osmond? No, he's not doing construction, but he does the design and stuff like that. For remodels and whatnot?

Yeah, for stuff like that. He's always been really good with that stuff. Wow. Yeah. And what do you do for a hobby, buddy? I am a big sports fan. I've been seeing almost every Dodger home game this year, which has been fun. And then I'm also geeking out on your guitars,

because I play music just to entertain myself as well. keep busy yeah but do you do any athletics yourself yeah i love in uh love uh mountain biking around here yeah a little play a little golf play a little tennis golf yeah explain that to me that well that's that naturally goes with the business uh yeah yeah but i mean have you been playing a long time yeah since i was a kid yeah because you go on location in you know tex Texas or something like that. It's a fun thing to do on the weekend. Yeah, but no one's ever taken me golfing. Let's go.

Yeah? Yeah, I'll go with you. Do you love it? Yeah, I do. I really love it. What's the appeal? Explain to me, because people have such an amazingly deep relationship with golf. It's hard to explain because it's very frustrating, but that's also the thing that

there's like a zen quality to it. I keep hearing that. It's a good way to just, because the movement is so complex and the only way to accomplish it is to not think about it while you're doing it. Right. And just developing the feel for something as weird as that sport and then whenever you succeed or you ever

get it where you're supposed to go, it's an amazing feeling. And it's nice being outside. It's nice being outside and it's quiet. Yeah. And you're just walking or slowly driving from hole to hole. Yeah. So it's the whole sort of...

My friend I worked on Alpha House with, she just told me she went to Versailles. And did you know that at Versailles you can drive golf carts around drinking rosé? Alpha House, what's that? It's this show with John Goodman that we did two seasons of on Amazon. Oh, okay, that's right.

Yeah, but the golf cart made me think about it because I never pictured Versailles as a place where people are driving little cars around. Well, I mean, you know, you got to see the ground somehow. It's huge, yeah. Have you spent time in Europe? Yes, I have, yeah.

And I did not do our summer program with ETW, but I did visit our studio there when a lot of my friends were training there over the summer in Amsterdam that's where our summer program is for NYU yeah for ETW what does that stand for again experimental theater wing yeah

so this is a crew that you work with have any of the people you went to college with are they sort of like doing amazing things in experimental theater? It's been, yes, definitely. One of my friends was hired immediately by Cirque du Soleil,

and I've seen him in Vegas a couple times. And then also, my friend Sarah Sutherland is on Veep right now, playing Julia Louis-Dreyfus's daughter. I saw her. Yeah, she's fantastic. She was at school with you? Yeah, she was in my class,

my small group of 12 people for all four years. And then Alex Anfanger, who was two years ahead of me, his show, Big Time on Hollywood, Florida, is on Comedy Central now. So it's crazy because everybody's coming out here and you're seeing them pop up. Those don't sound very experimental to me. Yeah, but they have a series.

He and Dan Schimpf have this thing that I did an episode of called Next Time on Lonnie that I think is a very specific sort of comedy that comes out of the kind of stuff that they did. Right, right. They have been

influenced in some way. I can't speak to their process but they have a really distinct voice and I think that our program may have contributed to that. So in terms of

the Entourage movie, were you on the TV series as well? No, I wasn't. So it was just a casting? Yeah, just audition, yeah. Isn't Constance Zimmer, is she in that? Yes, she is. She's fantastic.

She did an episode of my show this year. Oh, cool. She's great. We were just in D.C. with the Creative Coalition a couple weeks ago. What is that? We were lobbying members of Congress for NEA funding for the arts and for education. Really? Yeah, really, really cool experience. Who else went out there for that?

Tim Daly was there, and Gabourey Sidibe, and my sister, and like about a dozen people came. And we broke into small groups and went and met with Boehner's staff and McConnell's staff. And then some more people who were friendlier to our cause, Congressman Dan Kildee from Michigan was there. Did you meet Boehner? No, he was not there. He sent a staff member. But they were all very nice, and I was actually surprised at how productive those meetings were,

even with Republican staffs and members. How do you know if it's productive? Because they say they're going to do something? They generally succeed in protecting the NEA budget from being cut. We would like more, but there was a plan this year that was suggested that could potentially get to one Republican and one Democratic member to support and to write some op-eds for to, instead of getting a yearly budget on that, propose a larger amount of money to be played out over five years. So it was really cool. And Tim Daly's a

really smart guy and it was fun to watch him run those meetings. And it's his, he put the coalition together? No, I think it was originally put together by Alec Baldwin, Susan Sarandon, and Christopher Reeve in the late 80s during the initial NEA 4 scandal. So this is something that happens every year? Every year. It's in the lead up to the White House press correspondent's dinner

or weekend. That's when everybody's coming to Washington to lobby members of Congress for various reasons. So they like to come in with a big group and make an impression. And you were there. I was there, yeah. And Constance was there. She was, yeah. And how did they reach out to you? Is it just... I'm not sure.

I think they reached out to my publicist. My publicist reached out to them because I'm a big nerd about Washington stuff. You are? Yeah. I had a studio teacher really early on during the Clinton Dole campaign in 96 who had me studying the presidents and the electoral process and everything and I've it's always been something I've been interested in yeah and do you are you fascinated with politics yes depressed often with it but but uh fascinated with it fan of the the democratic system the idea yes of its

functioning not so much the electoral college and the district drawing that we have all over the country but yeah there's some tricky shit going on there's some and citizens united has been a real a real sour development in our process too so yeah i don't know it's it's a tough but yeah i mean going back to i just watched that um the Roosevelts, that Ken Burns thing, watched all 12 hours of that. It's pretty fascinating. It is, yeah. Yeah, he was amazing. They all were amazing, Eleanor and Teddy, too.

Yeah, and they were, but they come from the upper crust. Yeah. It's interesting that there were presidents, you know, George, the Bushes, too, like the second Bush, like these complete privileged people. But, you know, roosevelts at least seem to their legacy seems to be noble yeah and and that franklin's disability made this change in him where he genuinely wanted to engage with you know people suffering and his i think it's in warm springs georgia where he'd have the the polio center with you know kids that were disabled and everything and yeah just yeah that that kind of mixture of that that guilty

conscience from coming you know so high up in the you know right or whatever and also just to you know to like there was a time where you know people's affection and respect of that leader yeah of the president yeah was profound yeah and i i don't think that's happened for a while it's yeah we kind of like lack of you know we have all these terrifying problems with climate change in the middle east and and the economy and everything and there doesn't seem to be like a national purpose but it just seems like everything's become so fragmented that like you know the president talks and you know who watches you know like there was a time where the president was talking, the country stopped.

Yeah. So I just think that respect for the office in general has diminished just because it's like, when was that on? When did he talk? And then they can snipe at him on Twitter immediately. Yeah. Everybody's just lowered to the lowest common denominator in a way. No one's above it. Yeah.

Above the fray. Yeah, it's just an ugly... I heard you talk about this in a podcast recently where when it comes to Twitter or something, if you respond to negative things, you're a jerk. And if you ignore negative things, you're aloof and terrible. And even politicians are subject to that same impossible scenario. It's just like you shouldn't

engage them. But it's hard not to. Now you just mute you shouldn't you shouldn't engage him. Yeah. But it's hard not to. Yeah. Now you just mute them. You just make them disappear. That's the magic of Twitter. Like they can be saying that but I don't have to see it.

Yeah. Just like enforced denial. Like I can magically just you know manifest my denial by not looking at that person's garbage. Yeah.

All right. Well it was good talking to you man. Really nice at that person's garbage. Yeah. All right. Well, it was good talking to you, man. Really nice talking to you, too, man. Thanks for having me. Haley Joel Osment. Nice chat. Jerry Stahl, OG Dad, is the book. Haley Joel's movie is Entourage.

Go to WTFpod.com for all your WTFpod needs. I will be presenting a page full of new posters soon. Can you hear that hum? That's a fucking phew. Listen to that filth. Dirty. That's dirty dirty

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