WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 608 - Kurt Metzger

Episode Date: June 3, 2015

Comedian Kurt Metzger is currently a staff writer on Inside Amy Schumer, which is a far cry from his first TV writing job on a game show hosted by Marc. Kurt tells Marc how he broke out of his life as a Jehovah's Witness, became a comedian, and found himself embroiled in an online controversy about his comedy. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Lock the gates! Alright, let's do this. How are you, fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fucking ears what the fucksters what the fuckabillies what's happening i am mark this is wtf i am broadcasting from uh my mobile studio at the bowery hotel it's a beautiful day you know it was like two or three days of rainy shit, just depressing fucking rain. And then it opened up. I got one good day. I was starting to take it personally. I got one good day. Somehow or another, I think I strained my neck sleeping. Is that possible that I hurt my neck while I was sleeping? It must have been a rough dream. I must have been active.

Things must have been going on. I threw my neck out in a dream, and now I'm having a hard time moving it, and I got a special to tape on Saturday. So am I going to do my special in Chicago? You should all come to see me at the Vic Theater in Chicago. It would be nice. I think we're doing all right.

I think we're going to have enough people there. The hockey situation did not. I was undaunted. I was not going to be bullied by hockey. Well, apparently it's not even in Chicago, but people watch TV. I think both shows are looking peopled enough to do a special. I think the stage is going to look beautiful. I'm excited to do it.

Now I'm just a little concerned that uh that that my neck my neck that like i'm going to have that weird you know when i'm performing i'm gonna have that weird kind of like instead of turning my neck i turn my entire upper body do that thing on my special for for posterity that i will have this compromised movement we'll'll see. We'll see. I don't know. Today on the show, Kurt Metzger, brace yourself. Kurt Metzger, the comedian, he also writes for the Amy Schumer show. You know, he's an outspoken dude. He's an envelope pusher.

He's one of the funniest guys I know and the best joke writers I know. I think I gave him one of his first writing jobs a million years ago in a doomed, thank God, a doomed project, a remake of a English game comedy show called Nevermind the Buzzcocks. Shot 13 of those when I was broke after my first divorce. Pulled Kurt Metzger in to write for me and a couple other people. And it was one of the sticking points in my second divorce, actually, that my second wife, who was also a comedian and writer, by the time she left me was still furious that I had hired Kurt Metzger

and not her to write for Nevermind the Buzzcocks. Carried that resentment all the way through. And it was just a practical thing. It wasn't personal. Can you write with your wife? Can you write with your wife? Can you write with your girlfriend? Can you have them on a staff? Is that a healthy work environment?

Had nothing to do with her talent. Whatever. It's not the topic. Kurt Metzger is going to blow your mind a little bit. I barely got a word in. He had several axes to grind. He is one of the champions of free speech and button pushing, so enjoy. I did.

I enjoyed talking to him. What else can I tell you? Oh, tomorrow night I'll be in Cleveland at the Playhouse Theater, Playhouse Square. Come to that. I think there's a few tickets left. Chicago, as I said, the Vic, two shows at the Vic. Very excited about that.

We're going to be taping the special, and I will be moving in an interesting way. It's not a dance. It's nothing conceptual art about it. I have a bad neck right now. Maybe it'll be better. This is Thursday. Should be better.

Right? Right. Sunday night, Minneapolis at the Pantages. That'll be great. I love Minneapolis. And that's the schedule. That's where we're at right now. That's the immediate schedule.

I can push a, I can push out some other dates if you want. There are some other shows coming up that I could use some attention. There's a run out here on the East coast on Friday, June 26th. I'll be at the Bam Howard opera house, big room, big room tickets are selling well though.

There's already well over a thousand tickets sold. So you might want to get on that, Brooklyn. That's in Brooklyn. Saturday, June 27th at Paramount Theater, Huntington, New York. Huntington out on the island. Let's get those people there. The working people of Long Island, please.

Please. June 27th, Paramount Theater. June 28th at Count Basie Theater in Red Bank, New Jersey. Come on. Come on out. Good times. let's go jersey it's where i'm from let's do it all right so i wanted to get over to the new whitney today this is the big deal man the new whitney is the shit everyone's talking about it they moved from

wherever the hell it was up in the 80s i think or the 70s well the thing is is that i have a relationship with art and i'm in a relationship with an artist but i am i have a relationship with art my mother was a painter and some of you know that and she used to fly us back when we grew up in new mexico originally from jersey my roots are in jersey all right the big tomatoes in uh july remember huh remember jersey tomatoes when tomatoes were tomatoes? Anyways, even when I was growing up in New Mexico, my mother, we would fly back as a family, and sometimes we'd build our trips around retrospectives

or openings at museums. Also, I had my communist aunt and uncle, great aunt and uncle who lived over in Fort Lee. She was a sculptor, and my cousin Jane was a painter and sometimes we'd stay over there and we'd come to the museums. But I remember when as a child, I saw the Alexander Calder retrospective at the Whitney and Calder's circus. Calder does the mobiles and he also does little kind of wire things, little wire people and animals and very simple sort of primitive, almost childlike art. But it was a functioning circus.

And I remember seeing that when I was a child at the Whitney. And also I saw the Cezanne retrospective with my mother at the Whitney when I was a child. And I frequently visited the Whitney at different points in my life. I would go there and there was Calder Circus, right? When you walked into the old Whitney in a glass case, you could look at the circus and there was a film there that showed the circus in action with little old Alexander Calder playing with all the toys that he made. But it's a childhood memory of mine, that building. I know that building. I've been to that building. I've visited that artwork frequently throughout my childhood. And you do build a relationship with pieces of art if you frequent museums, especially the same museum. And you do build a relationship with pieces of art. If you frequent museums, especially the same museum, if you come to New York, you go to MoMA, you go to

the Whitney, you go to the Guggenheim, whatever. Guggenheim doesn't have as much of the permanent collection on display in a regular way like MoMA or the Whitney where there's always some pieces there, especially MoMA, that are out you know i can always go see the rothkos that i enjoy over there or the pollux or the you know the dekoonings whatever it is i can go visit them and i'll always they'll always be there for me timeless hanging timeless on the wall anyway so i went to the new whitney was the architectural masterpiece it's stunning and they've organized they have this this exhibit there now which i thought was genius it was just genius it's their first exhibit it needs to it needs to make an impact

america is hard to see all from the permanent collection and each floor has got a different time period and they're organized in sort of different thematic ways around style or around political action or social action or maybe just time but it was also pretty fucking amazing it was just amazing how it was put together and curated and which pieces they chose and i saw some pieces that i saw calder circus there in a glass case and you know but it's in a completely new environment it's in a completely modern environment the old whitney was the old whitney this thing is just stunning there's all these terraces and you can go outside and there's the the high line which was the old elevated train which they've made gardens and a walk throughout the entire kind of a west side over there it's uh you know by the meat packing

district to become very beautiful but the museum was spectacular and I felt elevated and excited to be there. I got no comedy about it. I'm just telling you, I guess in my own fucked up way that art is important. That acknowledging a new structure for architectural genius is important. There's got to be some things that we still register as important and not passive. We've got to be engaged, people. We've got to be engaged in the. We've got to be engaged in the painting. Reckon with the painting. Someone wrenched it from their guts and their mind and their vision. Reckon with it. Reckon with the structure. God, it's got to continue meaning

something. It's got to continue meaning something to stand in front of a Mark Rothko painting or a Picasso painting or a George O'Keefe. They had some beautiful old ones. All of them. They were ripped from the chest of people. Look at the texture. It's got to remain important. We can't lose touch with the art. We can't lose it.

God damn it. It's beautiful out. It's beautiful out here in new york i get a little melancholy here i don't know why there's a type of loneliness there's a loneliness and a connectivity that i feel simultaneous like a lot of me has lived here and i've been here at different points in my life and i feel connected to this city and i like looking at the old buildings and i like that there's so many people and so much going on but so much of that has nothing to do with me so that's the lonely part so what seems to be a lot going on and none of it has anything to do with me oh I'm lonely but I appreciate the busyness oh my god yeah

getting old I'm getting old it's. Let's talk to Kurt Metz. It's winter and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats, but meatballs, mozzarella balls, and arancini balls. Yes, we deliver those. Moose? No, but moose head? Yes, because that's alcohol and we deliver that too. Along with your favorite restaurant food, groceries, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly.

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interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Huge source of comfort to me that that what i'm still the same mark that i know from like oh i think i met you you were like 38 or something was i you were my age now when i met you oh that's right you had a hair yeah had all the hair yeah that's right and like wolverine hair yeah that's right and and we were uh and i hired you to write on that show. That's my first writing job. First writing job, which was also a tremendous source of aggravation and ongoing resentment by my ex-wife.

You got her on the show. I don't know why she... One of the things she said to me after she stopped loving me was like, you hired Kurt Metzger to write for you and you would you didn't have your own wife how could you hire kurt metzger well why single me out as the outrage of um don't know i've since gone on to have pretty good credits like yeah i know but i mean like i don't think she's the first to single you out for outrage no i in fact now is very satisfying dude because you're the you're fucking the target i'm a feminist icon of a writer now but i guess

the people that don't like me don't aren't aware of that but all this shit on schumer's show so wait so you're writing for amy what what exactly happened with all that shit walk me through oh i mean the initial thing the initial controversy still popping up now okay so initially had nothing to do with me yeah it was uh it was during the uh great rape joke wars of uh 2011 if you recall yeah when we had to decide if things can be joked about again usually every three years what's okay it was 9-11 and then it was rape jokes yeah there was a bit and by the way any rape joke i ever had conforms to the fucking whatever made up rules these dippy bloggers i already made my jokes according but don't tell me how the fuck to do my job and it's not a sexist thing either you followed the rape joke rules just

on my own whatever their rule is inherently you had enough of a conscience it's i wouldn't i have no conscience but about jokes jokes to, there's no moral component whatsoever. It's merely funny. Right. And that's its own force. Because I know for a fact that sometimes something that's absolutely not funny and, in fact, terribly wrong can be the most hysterical thing in the world in the right context. Sure. I mean, that's just a fact.

Yeah. So people that don't get funny, you know, there's a lot of people that feel, you know, like punching up and punching down comedy and all that shit. And it's a very telling thing to say. Yeah. You hear that punching down comedy. That's the most elitist fucking, that's saying there's a caste system and I'm on top of it and I will not deign to punch downward at the people lower than me. Yeah.

You think people are lower than you and you think that makes you more moral than me right right right so they have no problem with condescending apparently right yeah there's no problem condescension i thought we were all equal so i'm punching straight ahead but it turns out that i'm supposed to buy into that i'm on top of someone yeah okay okay so uh anyway this had nothing to do with me it was sam morel you know sam yeah similar eyebrows to me and uh yeah so he had this joke that it was uh how he's having sex with a black woman and it made him very uncomfortable because she kept saying the n-word over and over again right you know no okay very simple the joke is the misdirect of it it's not a moral yeah they don't all have morals to them right so fucking

but okay this girl uh whose name i won't mention she wrote a whole fucking thing against sam rice's whole thing about how outrageous it was he told this dumb fucking joke right so i got like jealous that he was getting this kind of attention okay yeah yeah which uh jim wharton pointed out to me later like why would that make you jealous like are you stupid you're jealous i'm like well i'm offensive where's my fucking blog about me? Yeah, so I Contacted Sam and we cooked up this thing to say that this girl's not a real person Yeah, we but we made her up to make a point about free speech and go the woman who bought okay The jig is okay. We just did this to make a point about speech. So you're gonna erase her Yeah, and I got a few people to go. Oh god kurt and sam morrill pulled it off and like and it spread like pretty quick yeah and uh shockingly quick i would say yeah and then people started

all these other people started making fake profiles of this girl and all this other shit and uh so she was outraged okay yeah so she goes on my facebook by the way i think that's a very jonathan swift-esque thing to do yeah just for Just for the record. The satirical intent was there. Satire punches up at things I don't like. So fucking, she goes through my whole Facebook to find objectionable material to get me. Okay. Of which there's probably a lot. Like, don't go on my Facebook.

I would tell people, there's no reason to go on it. I don't need you. I need like three people on it to thumbs up my premises that I'm too lazy to finish on my own without validation. Right. Okay. The rest of you are three pounds of shit, a two pound sack. Unfriend me. Yeah.

So she goes through and makes a collage of everything I've ever said out of context. Yeah. In a thing. Like one time I said, nigger faggot quoting donald glover from this sketch i like that he did yeah so she put he says the n word for kicks like me and my greaser friends are on the street corner yeah um so then she's trying to get me fired off amy show and she brought up a thing about i had spoken uh not my girlfriend that you know now but the girl i was with before her right you remember her the girl I was with before her. Right.

Do you remember her? The girl that was older than me by like 10 years? I think so. Maybe met her once. Okay. Yeah. So I had talked about, I don't remember how we got into it, but, oh, so one time I pinned her and I openly admitted to this.

I got in a fight with her where she had broken all my shit with a hammer and I pinned her to the wall by her throat, which is illegal. I mean, you go to jail for that. okay it's not a choke i turned it as choking but it wasn't like i was throttling her right right it was uh she was she was kind of fucked up and if i would come home late it was like right when i first passed the cellar yeah so she had this thing of uh i can't sleep if you're not home right which i my job is to be out late so she would do these crazy fucking things to me if i came home late so one night I come home and uh she had taken all my things and just bashed him up with a hammer and

laid him on the table and laid the hammer next stuff it's went to sleep like an angel nah so I didn't it wasn't like I flipped out I was like I'm just gonna go to bed yeah and then uh and then what happened was I woke up and I'm looking all my shit dude and I fucking she's in the shower and i pinned her against the wall like that no it's not good i could go to jail for that yeah but the point of me telling the story was that that's not justified what should have happened was i should have been a man and got the fuck out of the relationship a good two or three years before we got to that point right because it wasn't overnight that she's breaking my stuff it was clear i should have been out of there but i she was paying the rent right

okay and i and honestly god this is my thought process staying and it was it was so hard getting cable installed in this loft that i was like i just don't think i could go through that again i swear to god i thought that and stayed in a fucking crazy relationship for, of physical assaults, if we're keeping score, there were way more on me than that one. Oh, yeah, a lot. Yeah. Listen, we're good, me and her. We're all forgiven. This is why I don't understand these people that are mad about my-

So what happens when they read it, what she read? So she goes, he admits to a DV, which I thought meant double vaginal, but no, it means domestic violence. So she goes, and admitted domestic violence what is schumer going to do she's tweeting this oh to get schumer to react to get me fired right because when i was 24 i pinned this girl a wall for british then i go to tell a story that i'm hey guys don't do this thing i did right this i'm telling the story to tell people not to get into a thing like this right so what happened did schumer respond or what you never find me with that but i i they i had to go comedy central okay so the the daily dot there's an article that says it's called the disturbing

online trail of kurt metzger with so now there's a momentum against you right but i'm not famous so right where these twits made a mistake is nobody knows who the fuck i am so it didn't go anywhere right and also amy wasn't gonna fire me but i did i was surprised that did you talk to amy about it i told her if you gotta fire me fire me it's not your fault i mean i i didn't i never dreamed that that would happen where the show is brought into my nonsense and what'd she say she wasn't gonna fire me i mean she just wouldn't She doesn't give a shit about this. But Comedy Central, so the Daily Dot writes this fucking, I mean, it's like a smear. But if you read it, when I read it, I'm like, yeah, I'm kind of funny. Even doing their best, it's still. You're still good?

The jokes still hold? Yeah, the jokes still hold. So fucking, but I had to have, so the girl that wrote the article then writes to me an email that says, I'd like to get your side of the story. Would you now that you've printed this other thing? Now you want my side. So Comedy Central, I answered all her questions. Didn't send them to her.

I had to send them to Comedy Central. And they were very satisfied with all my responses. And then they said, don't respond. And I think that's the SNL, all these shows are like, just don't respond to these people. And don't bring the show into it and all that. But it'll still pop up here and there man with this fucking one article so i'm wondering when my my trevor noah moment will be when uh when you get the big job when the big job's coming like are you aware of his history of but but but fortunate for you it'll all be out there there's not gonna be any mystery yeah listen point. Yeah, listen, I'm pretty open.

What this is is the people who promote the fucking slam on me, they don't know me. They don't know my fucking work. They don't fucking... It's kind of amazing how quick they all glom on with not knowing any facts about anything. I mean, if somebody wants to hear the story in greater detail, on my podcast, Race Wars, it's flimsy facts with tom rhodes is

the episode yeah and uh it's tom was great by the way and i'm telling that the story much greater detail on that and i've explained it a million times so i you know i don't know what else to tell you if you give a shit you can listen to that if not i don't care it's it's a thing that's literally nobody's fucking business that i i talked about i was honest enough about to bring up yeah and now it's like it's amazing to see some stranger talking about it like they know any like i'm chris brown now yeah yeah and like you don't know shit about me or the relationship or what went on so like this is your this is your current writing job amy schumer yeah so and i gave you my your first writing job yeah in 19 i was like

that was one for never mind the buzzcocks right yeah and it was uh after 9-11 so it's 2001 yeah it was yeah like right after pretty soon after yeah right and and like it was like i was hosting a game show primarily to make money because I was bankrupt. I remember. From the first divorce. Yeah. And I was dating Mishnah. I was with you when you had to drop off that letter to your last payment to your ex-wife.

Really? Yeah. You dropped it off. Then we got fucking Tasty Delight or something after. Tasty Delight. Whatever. Tragic. Whatever fake ice cream.

Let's really celebrate with my ends my obligation to her eating the empty fucking experience of tasty delight do those things even exist anymore that was like it was all the rage for a while it's like no calories it was just sugar and somehow foamed into a soft serve it was like a real sad adult yeah exactly a pleasure there's a sad adult moment for you yeah there's a warning for you seeing marin me be this guy i never want to become that well it's not that it was like it's i see what's inevitable to become because i remember we were driving somewhere and you were complaining about somebody not booking you at uh state of new york i remember being i was like wow, this never gets better.

Because I was like, oh, wow, this guy's got a show. He's got a car. Yeah. I'm like, you know, I saw him on Dr. Katz. I'm like, oh, it's not good for him. I just like dawned on me like, oh, it's like that. It never goes away. Yeah.

And you had moved here from where? From Philly. So my only experience so far was watching Kevin Hart just shoot to the top. Right. The first time. Yeah, I guess that's how it works. And then disappear. And then he shot to the top again, remember?

He went away around Soul Plane for a minute. Is that what you're talking about? Like he got the deal to do the TV show and then it never happened. Yes, yes, yes. And then he had to go back to the drawing board because I talked to him about that. Well, Kev, I'll tell you what, man. I got to give it to him because he really was on top of every business. the whole reason i got into this business was to not do any of the shit you're supposed to do in life right and he's a fucking businessman obviously yeah and so i think that's

half of his appeal is just sort of like i work hard he's a winner yes what's that quote from christ he always says everybody wants to be famous but nobody wants to do the work is that jesus that jesus christ the nazarene said yeah everybody want to be famous nobody want to do the work kev's a winner yeah and i'm intrinsically a loser do you understand which is my like how i do my comedy like i'm i'm like i was raised christian and christian i don't think you're a loser i think you're a guy that... My soul is. It is. Your soul is a loser?

Oh, for sure. Now you're bringing your soul into this? I know exactly. Like, for me being so Christian growing up, you don't understand. Like, real Christianity is a religion for losers. It's not for winners. But wait, so wait. So you grew up in Philly.

No, I grew up in New Jersey mostly. In Ohio and also in North Carolina a little bit. So your mother and your father are married? My dad's dead. They got divorced when I was an adult, but we were Jehovah's Witnesses. When did he die? Just before I started dating Karen.

Seven or eight years ago. Oh, not that long ago. Yeah, not that long ago. Did you have a relationship with him? I was the last one talking to him with my family. He just drank himself to death in a fucking trailer at the end. Really? Yeah, he really got sad alcoholic at the end, man. Like what, wet brain and everything or what? Or just like distended belly?

He wanted to die. I didn't see him when he was like, you know, yellow or however the fuck they found him. But I was still talking to him. He had gotten so dark with my brother um but i was still talking to him he had gotten so dark with my brother and sister that they hadn't they stopped talking to him there's just three here yeah and i and i remember telling my brother like you really should call him because i don't know what's going on with him but if he drops dead you're gonna feel bad that you did this thing where you're like i'm not speaking to you and uh he fucking and my brother i remember

my brother weeping like when he died i was like i felt really bad being did he make it right what do you mean make it right did he heed your advice and call him never he never did so i was the last one to talk to him and uh but the other thing is my old man who was always my buddy growing up yeah for the most part more than my mom he uh felt bad for himself too much he really did he was in this dumb religion that he felt like he gave up making money in life and all this other shit because he was Into this religion and my mom just ate him from the inside out like fucking wasp larva basically, so you know he could have just He got trained to be like you get married you never get divorced. You're supposed to have kids You're not supposed to fuck until you're married all this shit that i'm sure he didn't want to do i'm sure he never even

wanted kids you know really but the rules were the rules what did he do he was uh a salesman uh mostly but he initially was an electrician and he started getting better and better jobs and he was a salesman for a while well how did they come to this religion that's not one you're that you're born into that's one you get roped into right i'm born into it my dad's dad uh was a world war ii uh airplane engineer yeah and when my dad was 12 uh my my grandpa his dad converted and then my mom converted at 18 because she was a disillusioned catholic my grandmother killed herself my mom's mom in a pretty fucked up way really kind of fucked up way and uh what way she uh cut her own throat this is the story i heard and by the way getting the full story of this i had to piece it together because my mom and my aunts will never tell you tell me this shit

yeah they'll just be like but apparently so my mom's like 12 my uh grandmother cut her own throat in the kitchen so my mom comes home from school my her mom's gone there's just a pool of blood in the kitchen which she and her sister had to clean up and uh and then i think my grandfather just married this other woman and felt like a good guy because he got the kids a new mom or some shit uh you know some miserable fucking 50 60 shit yeah and uh and fucking like uh so she was a Catholic, and it didn't help her through that. Right. That way. Right.

And so she found Jehovah's Witnesses, which I think really kind of satisfied whatever need she had. What needs are those? How did they just hold it? I don't understand what they do. Like, in terms of Catholicism, was Catholicism too abstract or too vague or too complicated? Probably all that. Probably all that.

She wasn't finding the relief from going into the booth? I or probably all that probably wasn't finding the relief from going into the booth i'd probably all that i'd probably i'll be a good way to put it the guy behind the screen is not helping me the wizard is not helping me this uh glory hole forgiveness is not helping me yeah yeah uh i think she wanted the more personalized uh protestant god over the uh you know the the ethnic pagan right fucking thing that she was doing so personalized uh protestant god over the uh you know the the ethnic pagan right fucking thing that she was doing so she uh but isn't the jehovah's witnesses like the no dancing troop no no no that's that's footloose you're thinking i believe that's the footloose church that you know jehovah's witnesses is uh like it's an it's actually used to be no holidays uh well not

not most of them right the ones that are considered pagan which would be like christmas okay but you can you can dance yes you can dance as long as it's modest and not sexual oh sorry yeah uh it's like uh you know it's just like a bible yeah but uh you know they have their own peculiarity like we didn't believe in an immortal soul for example they believe we believed in a resurrection okay like at the end times or whatever that people will be right brought back to life and you'll live in the in the garden of eden again they have a show that depicts that now what is it walking dead yes well yeah i guess christ wasn't really a zombie till his 30s right right so Walking dead. Yes.

Well, yeah. I guess Christ wasn't really a zombie until his 30s, right? Right. So fucking, yeah. So she's in this religion that was a great source of comfort. Yeah. To me, it wasn't. I mean, growing up in it, I did believe it.

And they met in the religion somehow? Yeah. My dad was an elder in the church. Oh, there's rankings? Right. Because everyone's, I was a minister. Everyone's a minister who gets baptized, which I believe is to keep you out of the military. Because you can't, we don't get involved in politics, which I agree with.

I think every fucking church should do that. And couldn't join the military. Which also, if you're a Christian, you can't be in the fucking military. I don't know why people think that. You cannot fight for a country. You serve God or you serve a country. So there's no circumstance where you can go like in iraq let's say yeah there's christians in iraq that probably got blown up while we're killing the other people yeah there's no way you're gonna go to god and go

hey god i had to bomb a couple christians but you know it was for america's uh liberty well you think god's gonna be cool with that apparently people do but that's not what it says so right i agree those things i wholeheartedly agree with you know but so your minister when do you become a minister when are you told i get 14 or 12 or like officially when i got baptized but i you know maybe before that because i had a a draft card like a deferral right a minister deferral right so so it's primarily that was their plan is that this was a way to get all our members to avoid military service. You can't be in the military, which I'm glad.

Although I would go do USO in a heartbeat, and I fucking, you know. Yeah, you want to help the guys out. Absolutely. Yeah, but the idea is also, I guess, they make everyone a minister specifically to give you a little more incentive when you're out there saving people. Well, it's not just, yes, but it's not just that. It's because the ranking, you're not supposed to give a shit about that. You're a Christian.

You're supposed to be humble. So you're not supposed to get off on that. What it is is everyone gets educated, as opposed to Catholicism where there's a clergy and a laity. It's kind of a medieval setup. There's more of the Protestant thing where we all read the Bible. So everybody, you know, I read the Bible a lot, like probably about 20 times because over the course of the year. So you, you know, I read the Bible a lot, like probably about 20 times over the,

because over the course of the year. So you were in? Yeah, yeah, very much. I didn't do anything until I was like 21 of like fucking or getting high or any of that. Really? Yeah. So like from the get-go,

like you were active in the church, you socialized at the church, most of your friends were in the church. All my best friends, yeah. Do you have any of those friends anymore? You know, my best friend growing up just recently got back in touch with me who's still in and i haven't called him on the phone yet well i'll see what

happens but is it like did it feel like a cult no not at all just like a religion it but see here's the thing that they talk about in scientology the disconnection yeah it's called disfellowshipping in jehovah's witnesses yeah so all my best friends growing up that stayed in i don't speak to them right now i'm an apostate i think i you know which is maybe you just moved on well i it turned out it's pretty fucking easy to move on but a lot of people i are very damaged by it anything where you're in like a group with that and all these groups do this they keep they make it your whole life this is your whole life yeah if you ever leave what are you gonna have you know and there's there's certain degrees that are less sinister

than others like but but jehovah's witnesses at least did that declawing thing to me a little bit you know yeah where like now i gotta be out in the world and how the fuck do i survive well i find a whorey girlfriend who makes more money than me and she takes care of me until i figure out how to be an adult and that's how i did it i mean seriously that's what i did i dated like like a whore with a heart of gold type yeah who liked my like foster kid energy you know like like i like working girl like i would always get like girls that had like prostituted would fuck me but i'd be like the guy they like to you know like we're both runaways yeah you know like that kind of feeling right i always had that coming off me yeah which i've i've considerably lost as grime and shit accumulates on me but at the time i was a you know like that was attractive to a certain type you know and now i'm a fucking filthed up

old fucking pig but uh yeah like it you know i didn't consider it culty but it did its damage you know right but so but when when you uh in your memory, your father was always drinking, your parents were always unhappy, or what? My parents were always unhappy. I don't remember my father being that much of an alcoholic. I remember my mother accusing him of that. And I remember him being a big martyr and kind of like, well, guess I'm an alcoholic then.

Yeah. You know? Right. And it getting more, and really they should have got a fucking divorce. Right. And they thought they were staying together for the kids. So if anybody out there is doing that, just fucking don't. Well, you stayed together for cable.

Yeah. Listen, I didn't say I was smarter. I sure as shit didn't say that. Not only did I stay with that girl for cable, I got her pregnant, okay? Yeah. And I begged her to have the baby. I got on my knees and begged her to have the baby. Why?

Because I'm a fucking idiot. And God bless her, she fucking aborted. God bless her. You know when people say, I can't imagine if I'd had an abortion. I can't imagine if we didn't have that abortion what my fucking life would be. What in your mind wanted the baby?

Do you remember? What were you thinking? I talked to my dad on the phone. Yeah. He's the only one i told about it until my mom i would like to tell her now because my mom was always big on me settling down with whoever i was with so yeah more moral is she around now or not yeah my mom i'm very close with now yeah um but my old man uh he he talked to me about it and then jay i was talking to about oh christen

god bless his white trash soul big jay he's uncut colombian white trash doors we'll call and jay's like yeah you know if you have the baby you'd fucking deal with it's a real like homer simpson their babies happen that's what happened what you know and they and they babies happen yeah they convinced me and uh so she luckily had some sense in her head and didn't have a baby because i mean we would have murdered each other if we stayed together oh it would have been a disaster we're very cool now but together we were not cool. It was just like a-

You guys are all right. You laugh about the throat throttling in the shower and stuff. I have a fucking turn on now, to be honest with you. That's why it's like people mad about it. I'm like, you don't fucking know us, so don't get upset. Right, but that's also the interesting point about punching up and punching down and people projecting or pathologizing other people's relationships or psychoanalyzing,

assuming that that person's a victim and had no play in it or that, you know, maybe if she doesn't see her victimness, that maybe she needs help as opposed to sort of like, you know, mind your own business. Dude, we got in a fight at Schumer about Woody Allen and Sunyi.

Yeah. This is one of the biggest fights because by the way, the writers are killer writers. Like they're all obviously. Yeah. Who's on the the show who's on staff uh it was me Jesse Klein uh Amy her sister Kyle Dunnigan Christine Nangle Tammy Sager Hallie uh I don't remember Hallie's last name uh Grace uh fucking what's Grace's last name Dan Powell I'm missing oh John Glazer wrote on this season this season so these are all this is the current crew yeah and uh and amy smart man she gets uh like i well really i'm

the male presence of the room that's my entire purpose the worst possible male presence well just a male presence because guess what there's not a single and i'm not the only guy in the room yet i'm the only male presence i promise you that the rest of them are just like okay whatever you say right whatever dingy thing you're like the dark dick presence dude I would the worst dick do in the world well it's it's not even that it's like they're so gentle I mean just a comic just as a stand-up comic when you're around like UCB people yeah or people who I don't they're very talented I'm not like right but let's face it are probably not the best examples of of male energy right a lot of malady kind of well my lady i got neil casey who was a great writer yeah oh jeremy byler was the other writer yeah neil casey uh wrote this great sketch malady about these clingy guys yeah that you've

never like you know never indicated you're gonna fuck but they get mad at you like when are you gonna fuck me like yeah and he's that's from experience of knowing those fucking guys you know yeah and uh so anyway it's the same feeling whatever a woman would feel working with all men i totally get it i totally get how you would feel as a woman i because it's like it's not that something bad's happening to you it's like you feel like should i say something i don't want to be the uncool one do i totally get if you're going through that as a woman i that's what i went through right right so it's kind of good for me i feel like to go through that you know yeah to have a perspective on it but uh what was the sunyi uh

so they were in a fight because we had to decide who's a fucking officially you know uh rapist for i can't remember what we were working on. Right. But the thing with Woody Allen is, here's my simple position that infuriates everyone. Soon he's fucking 40 now. So if he really had brainwashed and kidnapped her, I'm sure by now she could figure out what she wants to do since she's a 40-year-old woman.

Yeah. You know how you talk about projecting, like she's a victim and blah. She's 40. Yeah. She's on middle age. They're still together. They must have a beautiful

relationship do you know what i mean like well i mean but there is the argument that like what what's different between that and and the jehovah's witnesses or or stockholm syndrome or or whatever stop even patty hurst had got over it by now even patty fucking hurst realizes that uh ronald defreeze raped her by this point right right and she didn't want to rob those banks like she figured 40 listen and they were like yelling at me like well when you were in a thing like that they put i'm like yeah at 20 i go i'm out of here yeah and now i'm almost 40 i can't even fathom being somewhere i don't want to be yeah but uh so anyway that was like an impassioned fight do you know what i? Yeah. It's good that you have those active debates.

It is good, man. And that's what I really appreciate about her, because it's like she wants your voice. You know, she wants my voice and she wants their voices. And if we clash, whatever, it's good. But that's also the way a democratic environment is supposed to. She really I give it to her, man, because especially this season where we're getting a lot of like heat for like various like messagey sketches yeah the reason those are fine with me is because I think a lot of them are funny

you know and so like we had this one football kind of heat oh all the same blogs that want me fired quote my fucking lines to talk about how feminist amazing the show is that's me writing that guys so now that we know you're a fan of me maybe you could

shut the fuck up huh since you're my biggest fans anyway so like uh the the there's one called football town nights right right which christine nangle sketch which is a really funny sketch to me and and like i said i just don't want to be preached at i have a feminist i'm a feminist yeah i like that's fine as long as it's not just preaching make a joke and and and guys will eat it up and women yeah we get an even male female viewership yeah because of that yeah so so i remember calling amy because i was like listen at the end of this it was like it was about how uh josh charles is a is the new coach in town you know like friday night lights and he does things a little different than they used to he goes he's gonna have a no huddle offense and uh and no raping and they're all mad like what do you mean no raping like it throws the town in an

uproar yeah okay which i thought was a funny sketch but that has a potential to be very hammy ham-fisted you know yeah it has the potential yeah but uh but so at the end there was going to be this fucking statistic like, and then they went on where college where only one in three rapes is ever processed. I go, just cut that statistic, please. I called her. I'm like, listen, just we don't have to.

So somebody wrote this stupid article about how Amy is like the mom who bakes carrots into the brownies for the kids. Like she's making feminist brownies and big like listen just make brownies moms who put carrots in the brownies are cunts don't do that okay that sucks don't listen these dumb fuck bloggers they don't the fuck they're talking about you're funny be funny because the point is already coming across strong through the joke right you know what i mean and uh and then i thought i was gonna go back in and then you

know what she fucking listened she took it the fuck out yeah it's good she did because even the ones i like there's a couple things where even my girlfriend's like oh that's really like hitting the nail yeah ringing the bell yeah and luckily the jokes are very to me are good where it makes up for that you know jesse klein's real smart i mean you got a lot of like smart jesse yeah jesse fixes a lot of my sketches which uh remember todd berry we went to opie's i said jesse fixes my shit he goes by how throwing it out i hand him in she tears him in half but like this boy band song that that hit kind of big yeah uh girl you don't need makeup right right so i pitched this song called girl you don't need

makeup my original pitch was because i it was one of my Facebook posts, which was, you know, like there's just the talky part of the song where it's like, hey, girl, like, I don't care. Like, I only care about your tits, basically. Like, I didn't even know you had a head until fairly recently. I just looked up and I was like, damn, girl, that's a face. So I pitched that. Yeah.

Okay, so they're all laughing. Yeah. And then Jessieesse pitches okay well what if it's just you don't need makeup she takes her makeup off then they start walking it back immediately when they see her with no makeup right so then that's the version we did because as dan put it my version was insane like right which i don't think it is but in their world that's insane what i would say right so so then we wrote so we we wrote it like that, and it's like a viral fucking thing. Yeah, it sounds like a boy band song, dude.

Kyle Dunnigan arranged the music, and his buddy Something Roach. I can't remember his name. He's great, though. He sang the song. Well, now you're hitting all this success. Your stand-up's good. And I've always thought you're a great joke writer. And obviously, that is what you do for a living

but uh when you were in philly you know in the middle of this uh jehovah's witness nightmare reading the bible every day you know and and believing it and that was your life and that wasn't in philly philly's when i broke out okay uh you were in uh when i left the group the communal reinforcement that's when i broke out and by the way this the shit that bugs me about a lot of like especially the blogger shit uh is how much like i'm obsessed with being forced into organized religion like group thought yeah because i had it on me for a while okay and i had this thing on me especially in christianity or in our brand of it if you had a problem with something you could never be a stumbling block to your

brother to their salvation right so let's say you go well that doesn't sound quite right what does that mean well let's say they tell you dinosaurs are on noah's ark right yeah and you go i think that's probably crap yeah but if you said that out loud you might stumble your less smart brother it might shake his faith so you got to keep your mouth shut because that would be a same logic out of it absolutely why bring logic into? Okay, so we've got this beach ball. We got to keep in the air no matter what and that's your fucking duty Yeah, that's how I took it right and I got a real resentment of that and then what I notice is the same because I think I'm a liberal dude You seem kind of lefty kind of people have the exact same fucking like don't stumble anyone out of being progressive

The exact same fucking like, don't stumble anyone out of being progressive potentially. Politics are the most important thing. I make a decision to laugh. I don't just laugh. Maybe in heaven I'll laugh one day. I filter it through my gender studies class. To me, a lot of this shit is not a gender argument. It's you're fucking 20 and you just got out of college. Bitch, you got to get past my ageism before we even get to my sexism.

Right. You haven't even earned the right for me to be sexist against you. Right. Because you're fucking 20. You don't know shit. So just to have the people who use the word mansplain, right? Oh, here's a man mansplaining. Yeah.

Then to have that same person have the balls to then mansplain to me a professional how to do my job i mean they don't see the irony in that at all if you've ever used the term problematic ever yeah i know you're not funny there's not a single funny human being who understands funny who has ever wrote here's why this is problematic because a funny person would seek out problematic yeah because that's very funny when something's problematic well in my mind what you have is you have those people that judge you know and and and and fight what they think is a good fight to drain the humor out of everything and make everybody overly polite and self-censoring i wish i could laugh at that yeah but but but on the other side it's like you know

recently i had this realization where you know where you have people that are like, I'm going to say the word tranny no matter what. No matter what. And in my mind, it's like, that's the fight. Words go out of style for whatever reason. And so if you want to fight that hard, if that is really infringing on your freedom, then no one's telling you you can't say that, but you're just going to hang out with guys who say that. And then you're, okay, so that's fine. So somewhere in the middle of that, that's where the world lives. Well, you can't say that, but you're just going to hang out with guys who say that. And then you're okay. So that's fine. So somewhere in the middle of that. You're right.

You're right. That's where the world lives. Well, you know what's funny, man? I have no problem. See, my gripe is not the fucking sensitivity and shit, because to me, I think that makes me better that I have to now take what I want to say and figure out how to get it across to people who are like, well, now we don't like this. Who are snap judging. I like the challenge. Sure. across to people who are like, well, no, we don't like this. Who are snap judging and knee jerk. I like the challenge.

Sure. My entire sense of humor is to get you to laugh at something that you know you shouldn't be laughing at. So whatever, make it hard for me. That makes me better. I like that. I have no problem with that. What I don't get is why the consequences,

see, you're going, you're going to have to hang out with guys who say tranny. That's a fair consequence. Yeah. The unfair consequence is, hey, you should be fired. Right. Remember a long time long time ago when in fact i think you and me were talking about censorship when w was in maybe when the dixie chicks thing happened and i was like well that's just a business decision and you told me like no that's the way they censor now they go it's a

business decision you you kind of turn me around on that and you're fucking right it's the way to get around you having freedom. We find little shitty ways. Grassroots action. Yeah, when the Dixie Chicks got fucked with, I thought that was pretty shitty. I didn't think that they should have be run out of town because they dared criticize Bush on foreign soil.

Right. So why is it cool to do that to other people now? I don't get it. That guy John Ronson just wrote that book about public shaming and how easy it is to destroy someone's life over something that could easily that may have been misunderstood and i think you're right i think provoking and pushing buttons i mean we can't be that you know i understand it's hard being uh a minority it's hard to have a voice when you're a woman there's there you know there is there there are there are issues that exist yeah but but there still has to be the human interaction and negotiation and ability to sort of like all right maybe we're taking ourselves too seriously here's one thing they could stop

doing is because i hear this as a complaint especially in the white privilege bullshit list uh i'm not as a white privilege i'm not asked to speak for my entire race all the time right that's the complaint. In the same breath, I go on fucking salon and someone is speaking for their entire race or their entire gender. I am offended my entire race and this is my view and we all feel. I hate fucking self-appointed kings. Yeah, and you don't speak for all the brown people and all the women. So that's my only gripe is if you don't like some shit, first all tell me i suck you probably have a fair point whatever don't tell me that it's all women are behind you but

that's but see because in my mind that's generalizing just like a fucking racist or a sexist of course but when it suits when it suits you if you're listen it's a religion like any other being far left and so so i watch the same little hypocrisies that were in my dumb church and it drives me up a fucking wall like like if oh this last thing that just happened and i like larry willmore too he's had me on a lot he's a good guy yeah but uh the last night they're talking about in texas that stupid uh draw muhammad thing where that oh yeah some guys showed up to shoot and they got shot down yeah larry willmore said something about oh yeah because you want to make a bullshit

point about free speech well i agree it should be a bullshit point. But the fact that two guys show up to shoot it up means it's not a bullshit point. It means it's a real point. It's very stupid. We're going to draw Muhammad just to be mean. Oh, that sucks. Someone's going to shoot you for that. Well, keep doing it because obviously there's a fucking problem.

And that's weird because you're right, because the fear manifests itself in a strange way is that it's tricky because what you say is like, yeah, we have free speech, but you know why push it? Exactly. Look, I'll be the one who can – I do think like that. Right. I think about every fucking thing. In fact, on my Facebook, by the way, I don't put anything I don't think I can defend. Right. That's my whole thing in case I'm called upon at the tribunal.

I won't say anything. I'm like, can I defend this before I put it up? So that's the main thing I do. I'm like, because I might get in trouble. So that's the way you gauge. That's how I gauge it. That is a practical self-censoring mode of operation. I don't even call it censorship.

It's not censorship because when it comes right down to it, you don't want to be put in the position where you your only recourse is to snivel and apologize exactly yeah because like that when when people make these arguments about like um you know what do you think about these kind of jokes i'm like look anyone can say whatever they want to they're just going to have to answer to it exactly and so that that muslim thing that argument about the free speech they're not looking at it in in the terms of what's fair is fair all they're looking at it is as well islam's a brown thing and therefore hands off which is by the way the most racist thing there's it's a religion it's not a race right charlie hebdo racist how is it racist that's a religion yeah that anyone can be a member of kat stevens is not brown yeah okay they Okay, they drew Muhammad.

They didn't draw, they didn't go, this is what a hook nose looks like. Maybe you should print those shirts up. Cat Stevens is not brown. So to label it racist is very telling because in their head- But I think that you possess sensitivity.

You claim to not have a conscience, but you weigh this shit out. I know I do. What I'm saying is funny doesn't have a conscience. Right. But I think that that's an important element of this, is that there is a sensitivity to the issues. Of course. First of all, comedians are very sensitive.

They are. That's why we joke that way. Yeah. This is what people who aren't funny don't get. To make a joke about rape or any horrible thing. But you know when it hurts somebody's feelings, I would never fucking say a thing. By the way, if that's what I mean, that's what I meant to say is that like there is an L there has to be an element of decency.

I mean, like with the word tranny is a good example because I don't say it anymore because you know, it can't be fucking easy. Can't be easy for people who are transitioning for, you know, and for that minority and those people that are making these bold choices, no matter whatever you think about it, what do I got to hurt that person for? Fine, I lose that word. Yeah, I'll be nice about it. And by the way, if I say something that hurts someone's feelings, they go, hey, Kurt, that really hurt my feelings.

I got no problem apologizing. Please tell me if I did that. However, that's not what they do. They're not hurt. They go, on behalf of these people I'm imagining, I am offended. Go fuck yourself. It's not genuine.

You're trying to make political hay to be a little barnacle on my ship that wasn't famous in the fucking first place. Right. So let's go back to what was the moment where, now your brother and sister, are they in the church anymore? Gone. Gone. Just my mom's in it. Still? Yes. She can't let's go back to what was the moment where, now your brother and sister, are they in the church anymore? Gone, gone.

Just my mom's in it. Still? Yes. She can't let it go. I don't want her to. Yeah. I mean, I would hate for her to let it go. For one thing, that's going to mean a lot more hangout time for me and her.

The church is picking up a lot of that slack right now of being her, of listening to her stories you know yeah right now it's once a week she calls me with her orders of nonsense business how was the soup yeah i'm gonna bring you some two dollar bills you know like just mom nonsense and they pick up at least 75 percent of that slack so it does have the benefit of course but when what was the moment where you're like i'm out pussy flat out well what was the policy on pussy you got to be married oh no sex you know the question policy which but but but did it did it build from that point where well hold on you know what i'm over simply it started with i was working with the set with the with the thing where it's like

you can't tell the guy that that dinosaurs aren't the ark. Right. And so that always bugged me a little bit because I'm arrogant. The thing that saved me from all this shit and just carries me through life are no good quality I have. Only my worst quality. So any arrogance, that saved me from a cult. Yeah. My laziness, my selfishness saved me from being in a bad marriage. Yeah. All my bad qualities saved me.

So what happened was I already had that quality of arrogance, okay? my bad qualities save me. So what happened was I already had that quality of arrogance, okay? And then I started reading Skeptic Magazine because I was working at the Wiz

and there was a Barnes & Noble and on my lunch break I would look for magazines. And so... And this is what city we in now? This is in Jersey in Tom's River.

So I had picked up this book about UFOs. At the time, I kind of believed in that shit. Right. And I didn't realize the book...

Well, you were believing in dinosaurs and the art kind of... And by the way, believers believe everything. Yeah. And I didn't realize the book. Well, you were believing in dinosaurs on the Ark. And by the way, believers believe everything. Yeah. They believe a little bit in everything. That's the fucking really telling thing. They also probably believe in UFOs.

Right. Ask them to square it. They won't. But it's funny. You know those Nigerian internet scams? Yeah. Who falls for that? Yeah. When you go, who the fuck falls for this?

Christians. That's why they go, God bless and hello. Yeah. I am Mr. God bless you. Jesus loves us. Jones, can you? And they go god bless and hello i am mr god bless you jesus loves us uh jones can you you know and they go oh a christian yeah that's who gets suckered yeah yeah so because you're taught to do that so you're reading skeptic magazine on your watch while i'm reading this ufo thing and it was like it was like real obvious shit like you know remember like roswell the the material of the ufo couldn't be broken by any physical means yeah and it was

real simple like well then how did it break into a million pieces just because lightning hit it oh okay i didn't think of that right and it got my mind in that way and then i started picking up these magazines that were like skeptic shit and i started and it was like james randy kind of shit yeah and i got really into it and then when i met you you're like in it right and and that really started to chip away at my entire, and I realized that fucking thing of like, it's not what you think, it's how you think.

I started to become a big believer in that. So that's what it is. And then, so then once, then the final straw is like pussy. As somebody, did you write that? Did you ever thank publicly?

Thanks. Skeptic magazine for, I think pussy. I have fucking openly thank that. no, I, you know, I think I met Penn and Teller a couple times And told them that I never met James Randi Michael Shermer I believe was the publisher

He wrote that good book Why People Believe Weird Things Which is pretty great It's about just how your brain Believes this fucking horse shit that it believes But I don't think I could get suckered I think you gave me some skeptic magazines I might have Because I got obsessed with scientology when that right document i keep going to the scientology hole you know yeah i'm just fascinated or even uh

this jim jones thing i was watching the day where they're interviewing a former member of jones yeah yeah and and they always make it seem like it could happen to anybody no it can't don't act like we all could fall for that shit as soon as you said he's a commie and a christian i'm out so i wouldn't have got suckered by that you had a fucking weakness you know yeah i was born into it so that's my excuse right but these people that go into i'm like what the fuck is wrong with you yeah but you know whether it's hitler or that you come to someone in their weakest moment right right and give them their well people are also vulnerable if they've been you know it's fortunate i guess in america that you know people are are

uh kind of compelled and and sold on the idea that they're not whole or complete or or and and in capitalism is just sort of like well you need to buy some burgers and some perfume we're not just that you can reinvent yourself in capitalism sure and you can break away from your family but it is a system built on mining people's weakness and desires right and then you're supposed to like amway you're supposed to learn how to do it yourself to make some money yourself like maybe now you can learn how to find people's desires and shit but but the fucking uh like the way i judge the all the religious shit, all religions, I go, one, how much does it cost? That's my number.

When people go, this is a cult, how much does it cost? Okay, two, do I, does God do his own killing or do I have to do it? Okay, and then three, am I obligated to stay in this religion more for my mom or my dad, right? If it's for your mom, you probably won't be murdered when you leave, okay? If it's for your dad's honor, that's a little primitive you got to catch up to the other religions you know

because this shit about the it was a provocation against some yeah so what piss christ was kind of a provocation right the guy's still alive yeah he gets death threats you know get send a nice death threat you don't have to actually follow through. Do the American way. Just send the threat via Twitter and sit on your fat ass. And that's it. Can you just bargain you down to that? Can we just do it the free speech way? You have to be a man of action.

Yeah. So when did you start doing comedy? In college at Art Institute in Philly. I was always doing. You went to Art Institute? Yeah. I would have been like. So, okay. So you're in fucking New Jersey and you're like, all right, I'm always doing, You went to Art Institute? Yeah, I would have been like, So,

okay, so you're in fucking New Jersey, and you're like, all right, I'm gonna fuck, and I'm gonna, No, no,

not till I got to college. But you, but you were out. When you went to college, you, No, I was still in when I went. And I went with,

with a couple of other friends who were also in the same religion. So it was like, okay, because we're all going together. Right. And we're gonna watch out for each other to stay in the faith. And then one by one we all got out yeah just sniffed out

puss and fucking so this girl basically like fucking i guess by today's standards would be considered a rape but that was pretty awesome of her to do that you know like a coercion into what you do just jumped on me and made me do stuff. But I was like a fucking... You were a virgin? Yeah. Nervous, religious guy? She's going to take the Christ right out of your penis? Oh, the crushing guilt that I felt afterwards.

Bad? Oh, it was unbelievable. Really? I'm thinking of the lies I'm going to have to tell. By the way, kind of why I believed Mike Tyson in that... Remember the Mike Tyson thing? Jesus Christ. How many bombs are you going to drop that I got to answer to?

You're going to have to answer big for this one. What? But I'll just tell you, it's nothing with gender. It's a religious thing. Yeah. That girl was a preacher's kid who is a model, right? Yeah. And let me tell you something.

There's no bigger liar on the face of the planet than a sexy preacher's kid. Like a religious hot kid, those are the biggest liars because they fuck early and their social standing depends on them being moral so when i was in church all like the hot kids and rich kid they were all doing all this shit they weren't supposed to and they gave off the appearance of so making up a lie because i think people don't and i don't certainly don't believe most uh rape victims are liars or some nonsense like that but if you are going to be a liar chances are it's because you're religious and you got to protect your religious honor right and when people think it doesn't happen it's because they're probably their brain works correctly and they can't fathom why someone would tell a lie like that well the reason is because

you have this shame yeah and and the thing with shame man because you hear that a lot now about shaming like fat shaming and slut shaming, all that fucking shaming. If you don't already feel shame, no one can shame you. So, like, hey, Kurt, you're a piece of shit. So, I mean, shame ended. See how simple that is? That's all you got to do, fatso? You don't have to.

Maybe she lied. And your argument is that it makes sense to you psychologically. It makes sense to me why she would have lied about that. Which she would have. Absolutely. All right, so you felt guilty. Oh, my God. I was thinking about my lies of how I'm going to get out of this.

They're going to know. But God's going to know no matter what. Did you still believe in God? Yeah. Oh, he did know. But you don't believe in God now. I don't know what I believe. Maybe I do.

I don't know. Interesting. I don't know. Maybe there's God. I don't fucking know. I just don't I do. I don't know. Interesting. I don't know. Maybe there's God. I don't fucking know. I just don't believe the book of Genesis, sure. Okay. I don't believe the Bible, I guess, is history, because I did.

So what you were reacting to was really just the structure of the church and what was required of you. So the shame was not like, God is never going to forgive me, like how the fuck am I going to be part of this organization? Yeah, I didn't want to go through the hassle. And I ended up having to do a fake repentance thing because Delfino, Jessica, who you knew when I first met you, so she was going to convert to make my mom happy. And I was like, no, don't do that. I'll just leave and never talk to my mom again.

It's fine. That was my joke about like, you know, if you're gay, come out of the closet. Because my whole family was going to stop talking to me like i was gay yeah like fornicating heterosexually is as bad as being gay in the bible right like you know christians make it out like gays worse it's the same getting out of marriage yeah it's the same level of sin hetero or gay yeah right so my family was gonna stop speaking to me like how you hear about gay teens right yeah and i gotta say it wasn't that hard because if you're into it pussy is so much better than your family yeah it's not a difficult choice

you know oh that's all i gotta do to not speak to you assholes again is fuck okay that's your punishment not mine stupid so so like you know people like i don't understand why people don't there's no like teaching people to come from a position of strength at all anymore it's just like this fucking i'm responsible for your suicide which by the and i had a lot of that in my family so i have a very dim view of that suicide shit my old man would threaten suicide that that shitty little hostage taking where you're gonna kill yourself because you're upset is the shittiest thing you do to your fucking family. My dad did it all the time, too. And it's mental illness, a big part of it, you know? Yeah.

So, I mean, it's not like it's necessarily their fault, but it enrages me having someone do that to me because I just had to deal with so much of it, you know? And this thing, like when you talk about don't say tranny, of course don't say tranny, but the idea that, like, unless i say you were never a man it's your life like your life is in my hands yeah so your suicide's on you pal that's not on me yeah that's why it's called suicide not homicide because that's the one thing that's what's so great about suicide you control it like that's the appeal i decide you know yeah so so that's that's a little shitty thing now where it's like the threat of it's it's like blazing saddles yeah there's like a gay teen with please somebody help that poor man i'll kill him i'll kill this homo yeah and and they do and like like i'm not playing that

fucking game but i've actually personally i had to talk this gay kid out of suicide on my facebook some fan of mine who fucking uh he's it wasn't anything about him being gay but he said something stupid to me on my like my fans are the worst and so he sent some comment on my facebook that i that i was like flippant about yeah and then i noticed on his page he put my favorite comedian hates me and it's just i don't think it's worth going through anything something like so i'm like dude what does that mean like what are you getting at with that like and uh and he goes no no, no, nothing, man. I was just depressed.

It's nothing. Then the next day he writes how he was about to kill himself. And because then I talked to him, he felt better. And then we talked it out and it turned out he had come out of the closet to his family. His father told him that they're getting a divorce because he's gay. And then, like, took his dog away because faggots can't have dogs or something some abusive shit yeah and i go look man like you really think like if your father did to you fuck him like fuck them what are you like if if your dad's like that and they won't speak to you

he just did you a favor leaving your life like don't put the power in his hands like that like like it's in your fucking hands like you're worth whatever your life's worth more than some you live in america the whole point of america is you don't have to give a fuck what your parents think that's the beauty of this compared to the east you know all right so you got your first pussy yeah and you felt bad about it it was a good beater though and you worked and you worked through it uh yeah the girl just kind of broke my heart which was good and i ended up with so like how'd you deal with the shame i uh squashed it down and uh just felt it horribly and then i would imagine the terrible consequent once i once

i squish that down then i have to think about the aids i'm surely going to get sure that's punishment right because they tell you stories in church they, this person didn't do what they were supposed to. And then there's all these sad stories of how I didn't follow the way. And then all this awful shit befell me. You know, like a chain letter story of people who broke out. But how did you leave the church? I just fucking stopped going. Didn't tell them anything.

My mother wanted me to write them a letter. I'm like, I don't know them an explanation. And did your mother ever cut you you out for a couple months but she can't leave her kids right and your and your dad just sort of drifted away my dad got this fellowship for being a drunk at some point and then he when he and when did their marriage fall apart once i was out i was in college and then it finally kind of fell apart and then he just went where he just went away to florida with Oh, that's always a bad sign. Yep, yep.

And so I visited him a little. I mean, look, I got to see him before he went and I was still cool with my... You know, I just wish that he... He didn't do what he wanted in life and as a result, he killed himself. And the lesson I got in life was... Because my old man would be like,

listen, you got to fucking get a job that you don't... Basically told me I got to get a job I don't like so i can get married to a woman because i'm gonna want to have sex yeah gotta be married for that yeah he goes then she's gonna want kids yeah so you're gonna have to have be able to support him and he basically without knowing it was like get out son it's too late for me go like that's the message he delivered to me right and so i appreciate it and i got out when did you become a comic? When I was in college doing poetry readings. I would be a real fruitball fucking alternative comic

if not for starting out in black comedy rooms. Right. Which just beat the bullshit out of me. God bless them. Which yay. God bless black people for just beating The fucking Nonsense out of me You know I'd be a guy

You'd be yelling at Where guys used to yell at I remember you Screaming at Well I like Dimitri But you were screaming At him a long time ago Yeah

It was the funniest thing I ever saw Because he had his Long skateboard Yeah And I don't know If he had like a Fucking kaleidoscope

He was looking through Or something But he would Why don't you be a man Like he was like i don't even know what provoked it other than his appearance i was making me laugh and i remember like you couldn't be cute if you tried could you like i can't be i was really trying to it won't work for me so you and jay were running around with kevin heart yeah you and jay yeah but i was like jay's unfunny friend really when we started they didn't really get me so much

they actually you know what the black comics who were funny that would come through they all were like immediately cool to me it was all like the the uh entrenched hacks that would be like a dick to me but you for some reason you just found yourself working black rooms because in philly that's the only club there was right if you wanted an audience right if you wanted to do jokes for some bitter old local comics you could do the open mic at comedy cabaret and and what'd you learn by doing those rooms how many did you how to not be precious right okay how did not be which in art school i had a good illustration teacher taught me how to not be precious you know what were you studying in art school uh animation okay but i was an illustrator i was like you know comic books and shit and you wrote poetry and i but they were like funny you know so i would be doing like right i guess what

jeff ross used to do to some degree but i was a little more elaborate right and a little more spoken wordy yeah there's a lot of spoken like you were a sweet sensitive arty guy at one time yeah and so so uh i you know so when i went to do these black rooms it was like they don't want to hear your fucking white bullshit like that you know yeah which uh i mean really just snapped me out of oh i didn't realize like how much like whatever bougie kind of attitude i had like irony really is like a like i'm a big fan of tim heidecker right but the guy like i met him one time and i knew if i told him i like his work he's gonna look at me like a bug okay i can already see he's that guy yeah but i didn't whatever i like your shit so

i'll say what i feel right of course he looks at me like yeah all right dude yeah but that fucking little attitude where it's like i love their their shit, those guys. But half of it I find great. The other half is just shit jokes. And let's not pretend that it's more genius of a shit joke. That's the most amazing thing is the alternative reinventing a thing that's already been there. You pointed out to me how much these guys were just doing old Steve Martin. Did I even realize? There's no sense of any of this has been done before.

And they trot out. The shit of any of this has been done before. And they trot out. The shit that works the best has been done before. The stuff that really hasn't been done, it's still difficult for people to understand. You watch Maria Bamford, who's a fucking genius. Yeah, she's great. And by the way, I didn't realize until I met her that that's her. That fucking voice. She's not doing a character.

No. I met her and she was like. Right. But some people still. Because she's like right but some people still like because she's truly unique and people are like i don't know what to do with her and she's got people that love her but the stuff that works best in the alternative has been done over and over again right no i like her shit i always liked eddie pepitone he always said something that and i was another one he's a real original yeah i like i would sit through the shit of his i didn't

like just to hear the one or two things that I love You know what I mean? Because it's original that moment where he yells and cries at the same time almost where he's like It's worth it to me like I'll let him build up whatever bullshit just to get to the part that I think is like really like Creative and genius, you know, so there's a few people like that the real deal and then there's all those knockoffs Yeah, and that's how and that's the main thing i learned from the black room that it's not really measurably different from the white room other than white people are more afraid of it and but also you've got to work and you've got to deliver and you can't around there's no indulging this that's sort of like half-baked garbage that you you can't be a bataya comic as jay calls them which is this uh but i uh i uh so uh he calls it bataya comedy how much of that do you see dude so i uh single now uh so uh something therapist but you gotta tell the joke i've never met by the

way outside the writer's room is schumer this is how i know i'm like the lowest class member of the yeah i'm the only one who doesn't have a therapy story yeah i've never seen so many people be in therapy who haven't been to live combat in all my life like what did you see kyle dunning and told a story about his therapist has to hold a pen yeah because he falls asleep while kyle's talking and the pen like he picks it up to wake him up yeah i'm like, if your therapist is falling asleep, I got great news. You're done. Well, what are you paying for? Your therapist can't stay awake.

You got no reason to pay this money. Well, here's what I got to tell you because I got to wrap up. I think you got a lot accomplished today. I swear, guy, I miss you saying shit like that to me all the time that's my favorite shit dude is that it's all gonna work out it's like this fucking fuck oh dude that's my favorite thing of all time you said to me what was uh where when it was around when kurt and courtney that documentary was right because you know that new one's on? Yeah.

I was talking to that. I'm like, do you think she had him killed? And you're like, women don't have to kill men. Such a great point. It's going to happen. It's going to happen anyways. Well, no, it's just like, oh, I remember what I wanted to say. First of all, your soul is not a loser. It seems like your soul is, you know, fighting,

actually fighting the good fight and engaging in what is righteous. It's what a loser does. Oh, yeah, it's called what a loser does. It's not a winner. No, but what is a winner? I'm cool with it. I like it. Yeah.

But I'm not, like, I know in my head, like, Kevin's a winner. And I don't say that in any bitterness. Like, I give it to Kev every single thing he did. You know what I mean? He did every fucking decision he should do right. Yeah. You know? He fucking was the one that got his ass out of Philly before any of us.

Yeah. He has a set that mass people can mass appeal. I could never be that guy. You're not a leader of men, Kurt. I'm going to be a niche market. You're not a leader of men. I'm a boutique operation. You're the worst case scenario.

Yeah, I shouldn't host. Let's put it that way. I should not be the first thing you see. Someone needs to I think you're a genius. It's good to see you, man. Yeah, it's good to see you too, man. Alright, folks. That's it. That's our show. That guy was funny, right? Provocative, smart, folks, that's it. That's our show. That guy was funny, right?

Provocative, smart, quick. Love Kurt Metzger. It's nice to talk to him. Go to WTFpod.com for all your WTF pod needs. Get on the mailing list. I'll email you every Sunday. Personal stuff. Go to WTFpod slash calendar.

See all the new tour dates. Portland, Colorado, New York area. This week, Chicago, Cleveland, Minneapolis. It's all there. No guitar today because I'm in a hotel room. I can sing

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