WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 610 - Mike Watt

Episode Date: June 10, 2015

Fair warning: Mike Watt's story of a near-death experience is not for the squeamish. The good news is he survived. One of history's greatest bass players, Mike tells Marc about forming the rock bands Minutemen and Firehose, helping reunite Iggy and the Stooges, coming to terms with the death of his best friend, and writing three rock operas to help deal with personal crises. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed,

how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Lock the gates!

Alright, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fucking ears? What the fucksicles? What the fuckadel this. How are you, what the fuckers? What the fuck, buddies? What the fucking ears? What the fucksicles? What the fuckadelics? How are you? How are you?

WTF is the name of the show. I am Mark Maron, the host of that show. Mike Watt is on the show today. What a fucking freewheeling genius that dude is, man. We got into some shit. He's got an entire mythology and point of view that he works from real american original that guy mike watt solo work his work with fire hose and his uh seminal work with the minute men one of the amazing uh punk bands

out of California. Important, man. And it's something I came to late, but God damn it. I love talking to that guy. As you know, I've added about, let's see, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight dates to my tour. June 25th, that's Thursday. I'll be at the Capitol Theater in Port Chester, New York.

On Friday, June 26th, I will be at the BAM Howard Opera House in Brooklyn. That show is kicking ass. We're doing fine. That place seats 2,200. And there's tickets left. I'm just telling you, it's going well over there. June 27th, Saturday, the Paramount Theater in Huntington, New York. And Sunday, June 28th, the Count Paramount Theater in Huntington, New York, and Sunday, June 28th,

the Count Basie Theater in Red Bank, New Jersey. Now those shows, Red Bank, Huntington, Port Chester. I think a lot of the people that are my fans are going to Brooklyn. Those shows are selling okay, but if you live in those areas and you want to see me, grab some tickets.

Alright? So I know it's happening. You dig? Friday, July 10th, Aladdin Theater in Portland, Oregon. That's going great. Saturday, July 11th, Revolution Hall in Portland, Oregon. Great. Friday, July 24th in Boulder at the Boulder Theater in Colorado. And Saturday, July 25th at the Paramount Theater in Denver, Colorado.

Those Colorado dates are fine, but if you're coming, get some tickets. Portland's looking great. Portland is looking awesome. I did a show in Minneapolis. I haven't talked to you since then. Last Sunday, and it was astounding. I did this special on Saturday on Saturday in Chicago which was

great for a lot of different reasons and then I was just sort of like you know crack my there was a crash after that it's like all this momentum builds up for weeks on end then you do the thing so on Sunday in Minneapolis I was loose and I was out of my mind and I was talking like I'd never talked before. Not in a long time, not so plainly and honestly on a standup stage about things I used to talk about and why I don't talk about them anymore. Specifically, you know, things that may be condescending or self-righteous or strident. You you know how do you talk about politics how do you talk about religion stuff like that without doing without being strident or aggressive or self-righteous i don't like those tones when they come out of me get them out change the tone adjust the knob of

self but for some reason i was very lucid at that show and it's just never going to happen again. I know I mentioned this to you on Monday, but I was in a movie with Chris D'Elia and Eric Andre and a bunch of other funny people. It's called Flock of Dudes and it's premiering at the LA Film Festival this Saturday, June 13th at 7.40 PM. So check it out if you want, if you want to see me or some other funny people in that movie, if you want to see them act. And speaking of funny people,

Amy Schumer, Judd Apatow, Dave Attell, Vanessa Bayer, Mike Birbiglia, and Colin Quinn are going on tour for charity. They're doing the train wreck tour in seven cities. They'll be in Boston and New York on June 14th and 15th. Go to trainwreckmovie.com for tour dates and tickets. All right, let's stop screwing around.

Who cares anymore about my dumb blues wicks? Not me. Not me. Hey, look. This is supposed to be happening at the end. Let's talk to Mike Watt, a bass-playing genius right now. Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+.

We live and we die. We control nothing beyond that. An epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life. When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series streaming February 27th exclusively on Disney+. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply.

It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto rock take on the Colorado mammoth at a special 5 p.m. Start time on Saturday, March 9th at first Ontario center in Hamilton. The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley construction. Punch your ticket to kids night on Saturday, March 9th at 5 p.m. In rock city at 5 p.m. in Rock City at torontorock.com. Now. Fucking sickness almost killed me.

What was that? It was 15 years ago. Actually, it's on leap day day so only every four years i gotta go through the mother right it was like 38 days of fever man wow that's it and this thing is growing inside me what is it don't know so i go you felt it though oh fuck yeah it's like i'm i'm uh pregnant it's growing inside me you feel like in your gut it's called the taint yeah the taint the perineum perineum perineum that's a doctor where taint is like yeah the taint so you got a lump in there so i'll taint the balls right so you got a lump in there well i'm feeling i'm feeling there so i

tell the doctors ah they start feeding me pills yeah yeah this shit's growing and growing oh my god you know i'm following their orders the last round of pills is on the phone they don't even fucking see me i take their vd tests and shit that guy brings me into this room with a painting of a meskin funeral yeah what's that about don't look he said now look you're negative on all these tests you know the aids yeah yeah and i said that's good right and he said well could be wrong oh Oh, great. So I went, what the fuck? So I go back. The last round of pills.

Uplifting. It's on the phone. The dude don't even see me. So they just think it's going to be killed with antibiotics. They don't know what the fuck it is yet. Well, I found out later that last round, that kind of antibiotic is specific for syphilis. Yeah. They think it's a VD because I got this big village people look at that in those days.

He had the big mustache going. This guy's not safe saying he's got a new one on your work base right so fucking this thing's growing in me the only way i could get relief kind of yeah was get in the tub you know taint yeah fucking overhead yeah and hot water right hot water Just pounding on it And I guess that softened it up enough That this shit blew out After 38 days Blew out Blew a hole in me Like a

You know Double odd Fuck Like a giant zit No like a hole Holy fuck Okay right in the taint And about a gallon of

It looked like pea color Yeah You know peas Lima beans Oh my god it smelled like whoa oh my fucking shit green yeah it was i was septic i was a fucking bug factory and so i stuffed a bunch of newspapers in there and put on my levi and i call my sister melinda melinda we gotta go get me to the emergency room and i watched now this hospital i watched pots and pans there for five years.

So I knew some of these old doctors when I was a teenager, $1.20 an hour. Really? Anyway, I know Dr. Scheinberg or something like this. They're still there. Yeah, he's a urologist. And I tell the emergency room docs, a young man, I said, you know, maybe he can help me. And he goes, yeah, he's going to be here in the morning, Mr. Watt, but I don't know if you are. So we're going to put you in an ambulance and put you to county.

County? Okay. So I take everything off, you know, give my sister everything. Go up there nine hours. You know, after the nine hours, I did get shown to a team of interns. Right. And actually, trauma is their business. That was the perfect place to go.

They ain't going to just feed you fucking pills. They're going to get to work. And this guy, Doc Hopkins, you know, I made an opera about this. My second opera is all about this whole hell ride. I paralleled Dante's Comedia. Of course, you've got one surgeon. What's that opera called? It's called The Second Man's Middle Stand.

I was only 42. I had a lot of work to do, not time to die. I got to tell you, when I was laying there, you know, with the fevers and there was no clunk it was just delirium delirium delirium i was like you know in those kind of situations you got to really pull it together i think because it's like why not end the hurt let go yeah but on the other hand i had all these things see that's the thing when a hurt a sickness comes down on you, you think you got enough time, but it just makes you so weak. You might not.

Yeah, you don't have time. But I just said, fuck it. I got a lot of work. I can't go now. And then also, the difference with this intern, Doc Hopkins. Yeah. I put him in the opera, in fact. Because they all got their theories.

They got only one real doctor. But you got a hole in your tank. I know, but they got theories. Some dudes think it's flesh-eating bacteria. Some dudes think it's gangrene. Doc Hopkins, he says, I think you got the mother of all abscesses. I think this might have started from an ingrown fucking hair that should have been lanced. No shit.

Holy fuck. And you you know the way county was in those days all these people it's enough for the money all these people from all the world come there to get experience yeah yeah you're there because they wanna right they ain't punching a claw it's like in the music racket some cats who win the lottery the last thing you want to talk about is music you know then there's a notice when cats are first into it a big higher percentage if they really want to do it yeah it's a human thing yeah so i ain't against doctors like i said this cat saved my life and when he went to work yeah he cut two more holes in me one in a ball sack yeah and then one next to that other one because he said he said it was almost like going in there

with a wire brush because it was all fucked up everywhere he said it ate around your uh colon like a horseshoe it was eroding into your uh oh my god the piss tube thing called yeah urethra urethra yeah it put a foley in there yeah so man it was easiest pisses i ever took in my life i just look at that sack fill up you know yeah but then when they put that they didn't just put a foley in the urethra they also put in the wall of my bladder. Yeah. Because that's where it was really infected.

And, well, the tube out there, Mr. White, you can't do the base. Because it'll, you know, there ain't no fitting. There's a ball on the inside and there's a tube. Man, they got just a slit in you. And so you couldn't lean a base on that. You could feel the pressure. Couldn't play base. And you are the base.

Yeah, but I hadn't stopped since. I'd'd never stopped never gone a day without playing Right and now for like five six months. I can't play it so when I go back to it It's terrible. I'm all atrophied. Yeah, I got no rhythm. Yeah, I thought this is like bike shit Well, you know I went back to bite after 22 years that was lame to it Ain't it does come back, but you gotta fucking work on it, so I panicked you know, I went back to bite after 22 years. That was lame, too. It does come back, but you've got to fucking work on it. So I panicked, you know, and I was like, how can I get it back? What can I work on? And I thought immediately, Dave Alexander, Stooges. You know, for one thing, when we were more younger guys,

that's one of the only U.S. rock bands that could actually hear the bass. Right. And the lines were simple, not a lot of chord changes, but a lot of feel. And I thought, what if I just do Little Doll over and over and over? So the idea was just so you could get back to playing bass. Get on the horse. You've got to work it. And it was Stooges.

That was your system. I thought, let's just do Stooges songs. Let's just do it because, you know what, they're songs, but it ain't Yes or I'm Just Like a Bomber. Or even some of your songs are a lot more complicated. Mr. Beefheart influence or something. but they you know it ain't yes or yeah like a bomber yeah you know or even something your song yeah you are complicated yeah yeah yeah sure is this this real what do you call it fundamental right and maybe I get to learn to do this again and so we did these gigs Jay dug it yeah so he was just making a solo album called Jay Mascis in the fog where he played

everything yeah he says I want to tour this but I like singing every fucking night every song so why don't you come play bass and then we'll do some stooges songs so we go on tour and when we get to ann arbor that's where ronnie lives still with his mom at that time yeah jay asked me when we play the blind pig in ann arbor right jay mascus fog tour why don't you call up ronnie so i call him hey r Ronnie, we're playing in your town. Come on down. Yeah. Come down there. Last part of the set. Yeah. We do like nine Stooges songs with Ronnie. He comes up and plays the Stooges.

Comes and plays them. We got everything up. One of the Stooges. You know, Jay's got enough amps, believe me. Yeah, yeah. So he rigs some of them up for Ronnie. Right. So we're doing Stooges songs with one of the Stooges.

Oh, in fact, I remember what Jay said. Yeah. Because Jay loves, he learned, you know, Jay's really a drummer. Yeah. He learned guitar from Funhouse. Right. He says, first you learn from the guy, first you rip him off, then you play with the guy. Yeah.

That's what he told me. But Jay's a man of few words. I know. Believe me, I sat with him for an hour. But the dude is smart, though. Really smart. Very sweet guy. But not his verbal.

Yeah. But that's why people don't know this. Because you don't go and buff the badge with it. But anyway, he's digging on it. So he says, Ronnie, why don't you come on tour with us? So the tour ends up being, you know, J.Bascus and Fog. There were some dinosaur songs, too. But the whole last third would be Ronnie.

Yeah, you come out there, we do all that. Then there was this festival called tomorrow's party and thirst is the curator yeah now Scottie's living in his truck in Florida in Sarasota Scott Scott Ashton the other rock action right yeah the brother yeah and there says look let's random drum set and you and Jay what play with both Ashton brothers. Yeah. So fly them over there.

We practice up the first two albums. And we do this gig, me and Jay. And then Jay, OK, let's do some gigs in Europe called Ashton, Ashton, Maskus, and Watt. And that's where Ig heard about it. Really? Who knows? Ig might have where Ig heard about it. Really? Who knows? Ig might have known from the first gig. Right.

Because Ig's- Took that long. But then he's making an album called Skull Ring, right? So we ask him, hey guys, will you come on now? Him and Ronnie ain't talked for 29 years. Now, Scottie did try. He told me he did go up to New York City when he was living there and asked him about- Down out that city.

I remember when he lived in New York City. They even did a jam. Yeah. Him and the drummer. Scott. Yeah. Yeah. But there was a huge Berlin asked him about a thing. Down out that city. I remember when he lived in New York City. They even did a jam. Yeah, him and the drummer, Scott. Yeah. But there was a huge Berlin Wall with Ronnie and him. No kidding. But that all went away.

How quick? Well, when he heard about me and Jay playing with him. So they asked, and they do three or four songs. Actually, they're demos. Yeah. Because Scotty got all weirded out about that because they ended up being on the album. He said, man, I didn't know that was the real dealio, you know, but Ig likes the feel and

I understand why. So that was the beginning of the Stooges get together. This month, 12 years ago. Yeah. Was Coachella. That was the first one. So that's how you became a member of the Stooges. Well, it's an Iggy Pop album.

It's called Skull Ring. Right. But I guess they get to talking. Right. And they get an offer from the Coachella people. Because I'm on tour with my second man doing that tour for that soccer second opera. The opera about the life and death. Yeah.

Because I listened to the first one. I didn't get to that album. First one's about my pop. That's a fucking masterpiece. Well, I was trying to talk about the Minuteman. I used his life in the Navy. I didn't know how to deal with losing D-Boom. Right.

And sad ending. Yeah, we walked through that, man. Man, the second opera, happy ending, but still fucking held all the nightmare. Third opera, yeah, middle age.

That's a whole different deal. Which one's that? Is that done yet? Yeah, Hyphenated Man. That's great. I'm just trying to do a tour in two... I didn't know that in your mind

that's an opera. It's 30 parts. It's one song. I'll get to that later. Okay, that's i'm just trying to do a tour into into i didn't know that's it that in your mind that's an opera it's 30 parts it's one song i'll get to that later okay that's the last i'm almost done with this yeah so i'm on tour i'm in tallahassee at the cow house i think it's the second one and there's hey what there's a call it's egg yeah uh hey mike uh ronnie says you're the man you know thought, what the fuck? He goes, will you do me a favor? Would you wear a T-shirt instead of flannel? I said, fuck yeah.

Dress for Perry. I mean, it's fucking John Fogerty's idea anyway, you know. I said, what about Levi and Converse? He goes, that's strong. you know I said what about Levi and Converse he goes that's strong and he's talking about

him having nightmares about the drummer in lime green and the bass in orange and how it's gonna look and all this lights and you know I'm just holding the thing

and I'm like fuck and finally we get to the music part at the end of the spiel okay Mike however we end the songs right that's how we end them. Right.

What does that mean? Well, you know, that's exactly what I thought, Mark. And then I thought about it, that first album, a lot of the tunes fade out because, you know, they wrote them right on the spot there. Right. Well, a lot of those things didn't have endings, so they fade out. So that's what I think it was meaning. However we end them, that's how we end. Yeah, yeah. Okay so uh we had already worked that out with jay okay right right yeah yeah in

fact that's that's how uh uh ronnie told me later the strong lobby was for me because of that work i did with him and jay see what i mean jay's the guy who's responsible i get all this credit but it was really jay And so, okay. In Memphis, I leave my second man guys. I said, oh, now you guys drive off to Raleigh. I'll go do this gig. I fly out. I got sick on the fucking plane.

I didn't tell them. It felt like a 20-foot. It was that crap coming back a little bit. Really? Yeah. Oh, shit. That must have been scary. Yeah, the fevers came back up. Right here.

Not again. I didn't tell them, and we do the prac. Yeah. And then we do the gig in fact right before the gig man uh flea um i'm shivering we're in the desert and you know how and the peppers are there yeah and there's a whole bunch of man ian mckay was there but in fact flea and him are trying to hug the fever out of me flea goes wait a minute we got this nurse that puts vitamin e in us when this shit happens. So it takes 20 minutes to get this shit in my ass

and they put me in a golf cart and I go up there. The wind blew over Ronnie's amps. I remember Ig stopping dirt. He stops the song. He comes over to me. Are we in the right key? I said, yeah.

He said, play it again. It was a mind-boggling, but it happened. It fucking happened. And then 125 months of gigs. Yeah. And you've got to understand me. I'm finally the youngest dude in the band,

and my ears are like elephant-sized sponges. I'm just soaking up. I'm 13 in 1970. So I don't really know. I'm a boy in the 60s, but I don't know clubs. I don't know garage. And there was a whole scene that we were learning with punk, but the arena rock came and-

Washed everything away. I didn't have any of that experience. It was all Nuremberg rallies. Right. But then these guys, they were coming from a lot of common ground, but in other ways, completely different. Well, that's interesting because- I know they invent, there would be no punk

without them right but in another way they weren't us they were trying to do another thing well they were from another era

that's right Ronnie told me about smoking a pipe and wearing a corduroy coat at a folk coffee house shit doesn't exist no it don't exist

they're getting Beatle haircuts and him and Dave Alexander flying over to England to try to find the Beatles or something. He got a piece of Pete Townshend's guitar that was in a roof. But they were from a different thing. I remember Ig told me his first record was Johnny and the Hurricanes.

He was a drummer, right? That's where he gets his name because the band's called Iguanas. And Pop is some guy who, in a crazy, maybe barrage or some shit, but he rammed his head in a bulkhead and all his eyebrows fell out. And his name was like Joe Pop or something. Yeah.

Real name. Yeah. Well, Ig, one gig, I'm going to shave off my eyebrows and put glitter on. Well, you won't do that because that keeps the glitter from going into your eyes. Yeah, yeah. It's a nightmare,

but that's when Scotty started calling him Iggy Pop. So I think Danny Fields calls him Iggy Stooge. Right. And they told me about calling actually the three Stooges to get permission for the name. Well, one of them used to go over and hang out with Larry. Ronnie took care of Larry, bring him cigarettes and stuff like that. I love that story. That's the only time that Ronnie lived

outside was in Hollywood those couple years. Right. When they had the big record deal and they thought they were going to get it. Actually more than that. Living in that house. Actually more than that. They had the management deal with the Bowie main man. Yeah. And they got him a house in the Val. Scotty took me to that pad.

You were up there? He just showed it to me. Of course they were only in there a little bit sure before they even took away the clothes yeah oh they did you know that james with the collar everything it's over back to michigan take the yell out of lover it's over he had to sell the drum set to get back home there's a nightmare so when you guys started with the Minutemen, where were you living? You were here in Pedro? I came here. Okay, I'm from Virginia.

My pop's a sailor. He's an interim guy. Was he like a lifer in the Navy? He did 20. Yeah? So that's why you were in Virginia. He told me never to join. That's right. It's the biggest Navy base in the world.

But it ain't so close to Vietnam. Right. Pedro's closer because next to pedro is long beach naval station which is no more right it's all can boats now from china and stuff yeah probably better yeah in fact i the army base too they closed down because of the you didn't need that assault treaty anymore because uh yeah i've been in the officer's latrine for 26 years uh i put on i tore all the shitters out and I put a hatch. What do you mean?

It's nothing like a practice pad because me and D. Boone, you know, never had a pad, so a drummer is hard to play with. But you're playing for an old base building? Army base, yeah. It's the latrine for the officers. And that's what you practice? It's called Fort MacArthur. That's your practice pad?

Yeah. Well, there's a shower part, a sink part, and I took the shitter part and I pulled them all out and put up. I also put rug all over it because it's all made out of asbestos. Yeah, get rid of that. Because I took the bullshit out of it. Or at least seal it. Yeah.

So the military kind of stole my life. But anyway, you get these things called the orders. In 30 days, you'll report. So all of a sudden, we got to move from Virginia to Pedro. And you're how old? At that time, nine. And you got how many sisters? Two. And it's just the three.

Well, my mom. She's still around. Cancer killed my mom because he was an injury room guy but nuke. They had to train a nuclear navy. So they had to bring chief. Chief is like a sergeant. That's high as you go as an enlisted man. That's what he was. Enlisted men are trippy. They're usually running away from something. The officer guys, I think, come from a culture.

Their daddies were different. Bigger money. Yeah, but there's enlisted men lifers. Right. Like these chiefs, they'll plateau. It'll take them 20 years to get there, and then they'll stay another 20 years. Right, but the pension's different, I guess. The longer you're in, the more you get.

Right. My pop made chief in seven years because they had to have me build a nuke Navy quick. Yeah. But you could imagine, too, the Enterprise. In fact, that's what happened. Yeah. He came out here to be on a boat called the Long Beach. Yeah.

And then we're going to make an aircraft carrier. Right. But that's up in Alameda. So we got to move again. And my mom said, fuck that shit. Done. We're staying in Pedro. So I can't live in the navy housing there anymore they just made a new proj next to the old proj yeah it's biggest park we got in pedro called peck park yeah well me de boom was living in that older proj oh yeah that proj was from second world war housing it

was supposed to be torn down but he come from a military family too his daddy uh four years only yeah but like world war ii days yeah my pop was only 19 when i was born so he only knew vietnam so but he didn't go over that no he's out before the 50s sure econo it's just econo he's econo he's putting in radios at a buick dealership yeah what is it what does econo mean to for people who are just coming in contact with the fucking vans were called Econo lines. Yeah. Yeah. And drove up in one.

You still own one. Yeah. This is the fourth one. But 10 years. But you're associated with that word. Yeah. Because, well,

for one thing, we didn't grow up with a lot of money. Yeah. So economic. Yeah. So, uh, you still want to do it,

but maybe you ain't got the fucking. Yeah. Strap. No, you know, so you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you to do it but maybe you ain't got the fucking yeah shrapnel you know so you you you you make a tent to hold the dream yeah and that's all econo means it's a bang for buck yeah it don't mean always uh because you can be a cheap ass on yourself and end up paying more down the road so econo is more of a long view yeah it's not just you know i mean if you have to buy the mother like my pop said buy it right buy it once you have to buy it two or three times it ain't fucking econo yeah it's harder to find shit you can buy once now i know i know i know because lots of strategies from the the shepherds is not so econo yeah okay so we both share this

big park and i made him well I'm walking through the park first, second dad moved in. Yeah. He jumped out of a tree on me. This is D Boone. Yeah. Cause he's playing with his buddies. D Boone had really bad eyes, big, thick glasses.

Yeah. He was, pictures you don't see it much cause he's wearing contacts. Yeah. By that time. But he jumped on me and he thought I was a neighbor who nickname was Eskimo. Yeah. Cause you're not Eskimo. I said, no.

And his, his buddies had allkimo. Yeah. He goes, you're not Eskimo. I said, no. And his buddies all ran off. Yeah. And, you know, the only rock band he knew was Creedence. Yeah. It's a good rock band to know. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. But he knew about shit that I didn't know, comedians. Yeah.

I didn't know about comedians. I knew about Cream. I knew about Who, T-Rex i knew about who t-rex right in fact t-rex is our first concert we go to really yeah this is where yeah yeah yeah it was at long beach auditorium they tore it down it's the uh opera house how many how many tours did they even do of the states only a couple they weren't that big here right so so he knew credence you knew t-rex yeah but here's what happens when he jumps out of that tree, this is what really fucking got me smitten. Okay, I said, I just moved here.

Let me show you where I live. So we're walking back, walking from the tree. Yeah. The tree's gone now, but I know where it still was. So we're walking to my pad across these baseball diamond. He starts rattling off these bits. And I'm like, fuck, this is the smartest dude in the world you know now look we're 12 okay what kind of bits you mean comedy bits well i don't know i don't know i

think this man is fucking genius just whooping him out you know bam bam bam bam i'm like fuck yeah you know and of course the next day he takes me to his pad yeah and he puts on this record it's george car Carlin and I hear all the fucking bits he didn't make any of it up but you know what he had it memorized

pretty good but it was like god damn D Boone none of this is yours but it was too late because by that time and then that's when his ma came in

and says now this is early 70s so there ain't a lot of guns but there's fighting and stuff after school so you're gonna have a band but there's fighting and stuff after school. So you're going to have a band. She wants us in the house after school.

And you're 13? So we don't get in trouble. Well, we're 12. We're not even 13. And you listen to George Carlin? That's a mind-blower. His half-brother Jim gave him the record. Sure.

He had older brothers. See, I didn't. Got to have the older brothers. I didn't. I do. Thank God you had Deep Boone. You're right. Thank God.

Anyway, she played guitar as a girl, so Dee Boone obviously was the guitar player. Right. And then he had a little brother named- His mom. Yeah. And Ramblin' Rose was her big song, right? Brother Wayne. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, of course, Dee Boone learned Ramblin' Rose. And he had a little brother named Joe, and he would do the drum, put a book on the snare drum, and then play the little TV holder for symbol thing. Yeah. And every band's got a bass. You know, we look on the back of the album and go,

you're going to be bass, Watt. And I don't know what the fuck a bass is. Yeah. And then looking at the pictures, it looks like a guitar with only four. Yeah. So I think,

oh man, this is just a guitar with four strings. So that's what I played for the first couple of years. Now the Creedence records, he's got all six of the first six ones. But they ain't in the sleeve. They're on the hardwood floor with the grape juice on it. You got to put like, yeah, the record player is like, you know, the speakers on the wires hang out. You got to put six quarters in there, keep it from skipping.

So I can't fucking hear what the bass is playing. Yeah. You know, it's like. Yeah. So that's where I get the idea about flannels. See, I look at the singer's playing. Yeah. You know, it's like... Yeah. So that's where I get the idea about flannels. See, I look at the singer's shirts, and I go, man, if I wear the singer's shirts, maybe D. Boone will still like me.

So that's why, because I'm from Navy High, and I don't know what a fucking lumberjack or farmer's wears. You thought you disappointed him? Yeah, I couldn't hear what the fuck this guy was playing. But you thought maybe if you put the shirt on, he'll still like me. And i got finally got a bass around 16 so for those first couple years i'm playing this guitar with forrester now yeah you're just jamming not electric is it electric it's a pawn shop yeah because gibson's and fender's no way

right also music was so different then yeah yeah, it was like in record stores. And also, most music stores are like for school band shit. Right. So like electric guitars and stuff, that was kind of in record stores, if you can believe me. There was a place in Pedro called Chuck's Sound of Music. And a cat gave lessons out there. Roy Mendez Lopez, he actually lived in his car. He's a real hippie. Yeah.

Not just a rubber stamp, but this dude,, you know, he'd find clothes and use white shoe polish. He was into Hare Krishna and stuff, but he's really into fucking making his own guitars and mandolins and playing. In his car? He lived in the car. He took the fucking seat out. First a Volkswagen, then it was a Valiant.

Where was he making those guitars? In the fucking car. Trip. They were built so thin and be so loud that they would implode from just being tuned up. Yeah, this guy. But his big thing was about practice, practice. The culture was, though, no one wrote songs. Right. So, please

teach us how to copy off records. Right. That's all we did. Yeah. That was really kind of bunk. That's what you did at the beginning. That's what 70s... No one in our town wrote... It's all cover music no one ever yeah even though you're not even playing bars you're just jamming in your thing no one thought of music as expression right like building models right it kind of looks like

you know the best guy in town he's the guy who can play black dog the best you know nobody's using music to like say. Right. No original artists there. So you guys- So at least, but this is the way we hang out. Right. This is our personal thing. What songs were you learning at first? A lot of Blue Oyster Cult, a lot of Creedence, of course. You like Blue Oyster Cult.

We saw them the most out of all the bands. Really? Maybe three times. Yeah, they'd come play SoCal. I think they had a big popular thing here. So they'd be here a lot, and we saw them like 10 times. It's weird because they're not really one of my bands. I don't know why.

There's mystery. They had that symbol. The theatrics. Yeah, but they had this upside-down question mark, exclamation mark. Right, yeah, yeah. I spray-painted that on the back of a T-shirt. I was the only dude at school.

You know, there wasn't merchandise in old gig days. Gigs were all about promoting albums. Right. It wasn't, it hadn't become an industry. Right. So I could wear this and be like, I'm the only one who has it, unless maybe you read Richard Meltzer and Cream Magazine or Lester Bangs. Colt wasn't that, but I don't know. Meltzer used to wrote a couple songs for them, right?

A bunch of lyrics. Right. Like, stare away the stars, she's as beautiful as a foot. Some even later ones, like, I'm burning for you. Yeah, that was a big hit. And he was a huge rock critic, Richard Meltzer. He kind of invented rock, right. I got to make it out.

The Minutemen were going to collaborate with him. Yeah. He was a hero to us, man. He actually got us in Cream Magazine. He sent me this card. Yeah. Like, maybe it was an ace of spades or to a club. I don't know what the fuck.

I can't remember now. But he says, one day you want to play this card. And so we came out with a Bean Spill EP, Minutemen. And so I sent one of them with the card back. He said, I'm playing the card. Yeah. And he puts us in the fucking Cream Magazine. Oh, yeah.

And he says, they're scientist rock. So I used that in history lessons. Scientist rock. Yeah, he called us out. And for me and D. Boone to, yeah. And he says, they're scientist rock. So I use that in history lessons. Scientist rock. Yeah, he called us out. And for me and D. Boone to get something like that from Richard, well, he wrote 10 poems.

He was going to play sax and sing with us. And we were going to collaborate. In fact, I gave D. Boone those words in the last boat ride. Yeah. And when he got killed

in the wreck. Right. And later on, maybe four or five years ago, I got to make those songs with richard plus uh 43 others it was like 60 because there were some instrumentals too so like 63 song album called spiel gusher he lives in portland now uh-huh so i finally got to collaborate gusher is the uh what uh i should flow you one yeah i should flow you one because it's great it's

richard's it's got those 10 poems plus 40 something others he wrote now do you think because when you know you was in the Minutemen and Firehose and all the stuff

that you guys were doing I mean poetry it seems like you were writing that way they weren't yeah we're part of a movement like I try to understand

because there's a lot of I understand where we came from we come from arena rock so the way I look at that is like a farmer using a lot of manure. Yeah, arena rock. That's the manure. Right. And we grow out of this.

A lot of our punk is reactions against, but also getting turned on to these people we've never met. But when you listen, if I listen to the first couple of Minutemen records and then the big one, the sound like i it's hard for me to identify it as punk rock like if i was like double nickels on the dime when i listen to that it does it does it's maybe the punk like because you got a different understanding for us punk was never a style of music right because these people we met the first

the hollywood scene this is before hardcore yeah a lot of these people were older they weren't really kids they we were probably the youngest. It was more glitter and glam people, artist people. Yeah. Punk was like anything you could get. You know, bands like Nervous Gender. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Just anything to get away with. Yeah. I remember No Mercy was just a drummer and a singer up in the city. And the Screamers, the first band that could sell out the whiskey, they didn't have a guitar. It was anything. It was anything. It was not, it was a state of mind. So they became a style later. I think so.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you got to understand the demographic. It went to very young people in the suburbs. Because no one sounds like you guys. I mean, no one sounds like- We thought that was the point, though. You're supposed to do shit like that. That was part of the movement.

Right, right. You weren't, they said anarchy in these things. It was the test that meant no coercion. It didn't mean some kind of violence. It meant like you're supposed to push it. Yeah. Define yourself. I was doing this gig and Joey, he wasn't Ramones.

He had his own band. And he was saying punk was like a hay wagon. If you had something to bring, jump on. Right. I think for some people it was never really a style. The style belonged to the bands. Right. It wasn't supposed to be.

But, you know, marketing people and lazy figures. So when did you and D. Boone really start to figure out that thing you guys do? Because he's an amazing, he was an amazing guitar player. And it wasn't really about chords. He was very lyrical. Actually, a lot of his playing with Minuteman is political. Yeah. The politics ain't words.

Right. I mean, he had some words that, you know, talk to power or something. Yeah. But actually, that's it. Yeah. He wanted it in the band. Yeah. In the old days, the hierarchy was the guitar man runs the show.

Right. He's got these big ass, that's why I couldn't hear the bass on the Grand Funk records, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was all mushy. It's funny, overseas you could hear the bass. It's got these big ass, that's why I couldn't hear the bass on the Grand Funk records, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was all mushy. It's funny, overseas you could hear the bass. It's all Mark Farner. Yeah. Oh, he was hilarious.

He'd have a guitar solo, harmonica solo, organ solo. He'd have a tambourine solo. And a shirt off. Yeah. They were so huge. You saw them when you were a kid too? Yeah, with Jay Giles. Jay Giles blew them away.

Oh, yeah. My opinion. But what about the T-Rex out of the shows? Was that pretty mind-blowing? Yeah, it was beautiful. Yeah, because that's not arena rock. But it was a lot different than the albums. Was it just-

The albums are two, three-minute songs. Yeah. So he'd start off with that. Yeah. Then get on his knees and do 10 minutes of Glee guitar solo. It was a trip. I didn't expect that shit at all. It was amazing, huh?

I was like, what's this about? And he had a boa instead of flannel. He had a boa. So that's what I thought a flannel was. It was like a boa.

Okay. So Deebun wants politics. In the band. So he says, if we're going to be equal, I'm going to be like the guys in R&B. That's why you can hear

James Jamison. That's why you hear Larry Graham because the guitar guys are playing trebly and putting space in between the parts. That's why you can hear James Jamison. That's why you hear Larry Graham, because the guitar guys are playing trebly and putting space in between the parts, so no power chords. Right. So that's what he brings up.

He says, I want the drums coming up. I want a three-way conversation. We're going to talk about equality in these other areas. Let's get going in the fucking band. That was an idea. That was a spoken idea. He put out, and of course I'm for it. Yeah.

Fuck, because I figured out a couple years before, hey, this is where you put the retarded friend. You know, it's right field in Little League where nobody fucking hits the ball. You would meet dudes. Either he was the stand-up player in the school band or was a guitar player who couldn't get a gig because all the other dudes are doing it. There was like no pure bass dudes. Right.

You know, except Jamerson and guys like that. You know, I put some of your stuff on yesterday because I hadn't listened to it in a long time and then right away the bass is like boom and you're just driving that fuck the other thing is for 20 what

25 years now how long 30 years more than that been driving that bass like that we started the Minuteman 35 years ago

January yeah and you were how old 22 yeah I'm driving it but I learn with him so we don't have to teach each other And you were how old? 22. Yeah. I'm driving it, but I learn with him. So we don't have to teach each other.

We had that advantage. You both learned at the same time. Yeah, we didn't answer the ad, the recycler. You know, I did do that. You did. Because I didn't finish the story about us coming out of copying songs. We were copying Tie Your Mother Down and Dust in the Wind and some bullshit. Really?

And so we'd get all sweaty. Let's take a breather, go outside. The drummer of the Weirdos, which was one of the first Hollywood punk bands, he's a Pedro dude. Yeah. Named Nicky Beat, Jeff Avisavish. Yeah.

He's wearing a Kotex around his neck. He's got Vaseline in his hair. He goes to us to show you how pathetic these days are. We just out of high school right we graduate in 76 there's this and it's the next summer 77 he goes there's a scene up in hollywood where people write their own songs that's all yeah yeah because punk was only pictures no one knew what it sounded like. Right. Some pictures. And we go up and we see a band called The Bags. Yeah. And the first thing I say to D Boone is we can do this. I don't know why.

It just came out of my mouth. You know, I never went to Arena Rock saying, hey, we're going to be playing here or some shit. Sure. But this gig, it did. But he didn't want to make a band. Why? Because you got to understand, in those days, punk was so hated.

There was lines drawn. There's the arena rock people, the rock people, and the punks were like, who are these weirdos? Right. I mean, square john people. They like, oh, yeah. Yeah. But it was the other rock and rollers that really hated it.

Yeah. Because it represents a lack of professionalism and messy. Do you remember this thing about disco? that really hated it. Yeah. Because it represents a lack of professionalism. Messy. Do you remember this thing about disco? I think disco and punk were actually both the same kind of reactions to arena rock. You know, we're tired of looking at the star. Look at us, we're ugly. Disco guys, look at us, we're pretty.

These motherfuckers are burning disco records on the baseball fields. It was all this, because they own the whole show. I remember when I was in high school, dude. I was in high school like I graduated in 81 and I was in Albuquerque so it took shit

a little time to get there but I remember when we actually got New Wave before we got punk at my high school and that was like disco was being pushed out. Like we'd had enough

of that shit but it was still around and then everything changed like in the late 70s. But you know, big FM radio radio the big record company classic rock they were selling all the beads and sandals man anyone i don't know why like foreigner our thing was such a minority you know punk got big in england quick but not over

here man it was tiny you had to be really into it yeah to do it i don't know i when i put a picture richard hell on my base that was like a line in the sand. Yeah. You had to hide all the punk stuff. You know, at first we ripped up our clothes and rode on them and all that. Right. But so much shit, we had to go back to high school clothes

and we thought, just keep the punk up in the head. There was such a negative reaction to the scene. I can't believe how open-minded, especially with musicians these days, there's no problem. In those days it was big fucking problem i can imagine in berkey i remember you know i know from there who painter man robert william yeah yeah i just talked to him yeah he told me that was a rough town in the 60s

yeah yeah he said when you bought the mota that dude just didn't sell mota he also broke into people's pads and he said it was he was heavy. Berkey was heavy in those days. It's pretty heavy still. Yeah. I mean, like it's- They got a problem with the police shooting people. Yeah, a little bit. Yeah.

A little bit. But I still play there every tour. If you look at tour riding, now what I do is I do clockwise in the fall and I do counterclockwise in the spring. In I-40, you know.

That's all Route 66. Yeah, it all goes down. Route 66. So it's amazing to me that you go ahead and just, that at the beginning, you just thought you could just play. Like the tuning, nothing.

But you still got on stage and did it, which is crazy. Yeah. So when did you guys, so you guys were like. When the punk movement comes, I mean, that's just at high school, you know, and doing that one little thing. Where'd you get the records though? Because I talked to a lot of dudes at the beginning of punk. The records was really important because those were the punk bands.

You couldn't, all we could see in hollywood was the hollywood punk bands there was some like clash or jam but by the you know they had maybe the first album's good and then it's all just rock and roll and shit stranglers right the really weird records there was a record store in long beach called zed of london and it was this guy named Mike and his ma. And I guess they imported hippie, spacey records like Tangerine Dream and shit. So they had the connects with the independent labels over there. So when punk came, now nobody wrote about the pop group, Wire, all this shit.

We would just pick them out by the cover or the name of the band. And they were only two bucks, singles. And wait until we had time off on weekend, eat ale, and then listen to them. And, you know, a lot of these bands, The Fall. You never heard it before, so it would just hit you. Cabaret Voltaire. Yeah. Red Crayola.

They were actually from Texas, but he ended up in England. All these, we would never get to see these guys again. Right, sure, sure. But the records were really important. Because it showed you, some skater made a sticker out of something d boom once said it says punk was whatever we made it to be and these dudes were living proof it was like like when you say that pull it out of the air the problem was i think with understanding the minute man is because that culture we came out of 70s punk those people

burned out pretty quick. The only ones coming to the gigs were the younger guys from the suburbs in the early 80s, and it's all fast music, and they called this hardcore. There was East Coast, too, like Ian and Discord and Stuff Up New York, The Bad Brains, of course, and this really fast way of playing. Actually, Dr. No, Gary, he told me they were a fusion band at first. Oh, really? And then went over to that yeah yeah but because that's what it is see uh i think in that way it

can't ever die if you talk about it as ethic more than a style it makes more sense sure you can understand us hearing this word punk yeah in my in pedro punk is a dude who gets fucked in jail for cigarettes i mean why would you call your music this? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But New Wave, I got a little suspicious. And then later they called it alternative. It's sort of pop music. Yeah, but it's from upstairs.

It ain't from people who don't give a fuck and don't fit in so they make their own parallel universe. Well, that's what you guys did. Well, we got involved with this movement that was doing it. It wasn't just us. No, I know, I know, but I... I can't tell you what the Minuteman would sound like, or there would be a Minuteman. If? There was no punk movement. They had incredible

influence. And that, like, the crew at SST Records and... Absolutely. And all those cats. And look at that. How'd that happen? I don't know. The dudes fucking handing out flyers. They're gonna do their, like, one of the first gigs in Pedro. Yeah. They're're gonna rent we had these things called teen centers a team post right they just fixed one up in the kind of hood part yeah and dukowski rents it out yeah you know the guy from sst yeah he was the bass man on a flag and co co uh yeah greg was really sst it

meant solid state transmitter he was into ham radio That's why he got into Torn, because he talked to dudes and others. A lot of this shit makes sense if you chase your shit down. Anyway, they're headed out. Wait, the head of SST who was in Black Flag, right? He was a ham radio aficionado. So that was the way it communicated gigs initially. Well, no, this is his idea about Torn. Right.

I think the only Hollywood band with a van was the Dillsills these guys didn't think about playing anywhere but hollywood right greg's like no i've talked to people in other towns i know about the world we're gonna tour yeah uh he didn't you by that time he's out of actually when black flag was first starting we still had the company because i soldered the intentitude i met these guys now for hollywood people anything south of hollywood is the beach yeah so they think fucking hermosa beach is the same as pedro right we don't know these guys for fucking shit i mean d boone's half brother jim uh used to take a hammer his buddies would go down because they put up their surfboards this is in the 60s on the strand right on the wall and like fucking not coals in the book they called them dappies yeah there was like not a lot a lot now

we went that village you know on beach dudes but we didn't really know him the harbor ain't the beach yeah kind of yeah not for hollywood you guys you know whatever right so i guess we got thrown in but what it really was was this connection about pedro like they're gonna put on this gig yeah and we couldn't believe they were gonna try to do a punk gig in Pedro. And they said, why that? Because we live in Pedro. So we're the only punk band. Pedro's got a punk band? Yeah, it's us. Will you open?

I think it was like before Charlie Manson, when dudes wore long hair. If some dude had balls to do that, you could trust him. And I think it was like that, too. You could just trust somebody. We didn't know these guys for shit. And they asked us to open up. And then Greg sees two of our gigs. You can be S somebody. We didn't know these guys for shit. Yeah. And they asked us to open up. And then Greg sees two of our gigs. You can be SSTOO2.

Minute Man Paranoid Time. Yeah. It was different in those days because of the scene being so small. So they took to you and they said... And we took to them. And you could talk to Darby. Darby, they get done germs, get done playing. You can talk to Darby.

The dude might be standing next to you. Pat or Dorna. Yeah. uh don don's still around and actually don was from arizona don who bowls yeah the germs drummer the punk thing was all about people and community yeah and that you guys became like sort of like we didn't know these guys it was just because oh you're weird enough to be in this shit? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And that's how everyone got to know each other. That's how it happened. A bunch of fucking accidents. People slamming in.

You know, you fly over SoCal. Looks like one big thing. But you know it's 150 times. Sure. Like this neighborhood here, I've never been in. There's so many. Yeah. We're balkanized, right?

Right. So all these dudes are coming from the Valley, Inland Empire, South Bay. Yeah. Whatever, Boo. Yeah. Beverly Hills, maybe. I don't know the yeah the one thing that uh glued us all together stooges see that's why that is such a mind blow that happened yeah so what happened was d-boom would not make a band with me at first yeah so we had this thing called the recycler in. In fact, it's still around. Now they're for free. I remember. That's where I got all my cars, all my Fenders and Gibsons.

They also had ads for musicians. Sure. And these dudes had one out for a bass player. It was on Santa Monica Boulevard. And this time it would be like hundreds of dudes hitchhiking. It was still the 70s. And I go in there. I jammed this drummer man.

This is Pop's Electric Shop. And him and a guitar and a lady singer. We did I Want to Be Your Dog for four and a half hours. I came back down to Pedro and told D. Boone, okay, I'll make a band with you. And that's when we made this band. Who was that band? Did they end up being anybody? Well, the drummer ended up in the F word.

But I don't think they ever ended up being anything. But they liked the way I played. But when D. Boone said he wanted to make a band, I had to tell him, sorry, I'm going to do this. But D. Boone didn't like this band, really. He didn't write one song. D. Boone always had it in his mind the Minutemen was going to be the real band. So after about a year and a half, two years of that band. Which band?

It was called the Ractionaries. It was you and D. Boone and who? Martin Tamburvich and George Hurley. Ended up being the drummer the drummer but not at first right

we had a welder man yeah and then he got two punk gigs he got scared yeah he ran off

left his drum shit which guy the welder man yeah the welder man Frank Tachi you know and I never saw him about nine years later

I saw him again and Peter he goes you know I shouldn't have quit but he's a good cat and he got freaked georgie had he had joined a new wave band called hey taxi and he had just quit he learned all them songs in three weeks when we recorded in one night paranoid time that's how it happened but the way uh i gotta say it was a lot about community yeah i think

things are always going to be about community it's's always gonna be about people yeah so I don't think it's just one moment in time yeah now but it's interesting to me that so many you guys they're still friends see that's the beautiful thing about that whole scene is that you know I had John Doe in here I came in here I've had a giggy in here I had Jane here I had cats you know. They're talking about how they got the records, mailing records, mail order, fans. The mixtape. When you made the cassette, this is what I like.

Yeah, this is what I like. Yeah, but so many of you guys still know each other. You still play with each other. You have this mutual respect. You talk about Arena Rock and those guys that become almost immortalized or mythic. Who the fuck, how are they gonna have friends the the thing is is that you guys still have your feet on the ground and even when you're playing

with iggy and shit you all seem to cross paths you and ian you know you you guys know each other there's a brotherhood that that continues to exist there's a humility to the whole thing i think it was the conditions too man because if you weren't into it, it wasn't going to happen. Right. People hated it. Yeah. You had to be a pusher. Yeah. Shover. Yeah.

So Paranoid Time was an EP. You booked things through the phone. Yeah. It was Dukowski's phone book. Yeah. He built that fucking circuit we're still touring on. Really? Yeah.

I mean, it's incredible. It was about people. What was Dukowski? He was the guy at SST? He was both the bass player for Black Flag and co-owner with Greg Ginn. And you're still working off his phone book. In a way. Well, got to email and shit like that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's the one. You know, Flag actually built that fucking circuit. People would, like, play New York. Actually, the city had a bigger scene than we did. SF, you know it they went through some cycles here too with the hard drugs and shit like this idea of torrent that's black flag when you play Shreveport you play Boise you know and you guys did that you

got well we were total students yeah you know there was we didn't know about remember younger reading I don't know circus Circus or some of the other shill bags. And all the tour stories were big like, ah, this is terrible. Yeah, yeah, horrible. It's a nightmare. Yeah. Well, when we started doing this, it ain't a nightmare.

This is a trip. People pay money. They call these vacations. Yeah. We got to see all this shit. You know, we didn't get to, you know, working dads and shit. You can't go see these things without, but this offered us the opportunity. Of course, D. Boone had us go to every Civil War,

Revolutionary battlefield we could. And he was a real history buff. He was way into history. In fact, I had never, the only nonfiction I read was this, my mom got sold a world book. Yeah, the encyclopedia. So I started with A's. That's the only nonfiction I ever read.

Yeah, but he was into it, huh? He was way into it. He got me into it. And so we would get into this. Oh, yeah. Minuteman was notorious for fighting over things. Yeah. You know, fistfights, too, and shit, and get the pressure off.

Sure. All three? Oh, yeah, yeah. Georgie was a pretty smart dude. Yeah. Still is. But other things, like drive to the library. We got to look this shit up.

Before Google, no iPhone. Yeah, was it King Edward III or the second that had to walk through the snow so he wouldn't be executed? So you had to drive and stop on the road? Yeah, it's insane. You would stop at the public library? Because I think all three of us were first born. Yeah.

So you don't always have to have an older brother. Right. You become the older brother, but with your other ones, there's a little bit of... Yeah. Let's put it this way. There was no head trips. Nothing was stewing. Right.

Nothing was... Everything was just brought out. Yeah, yeah. Wah! Yeah. I'll tell you about Ig, though. Mm-hmm. Working with him, what I found common with Dee Boone, same at work ethic.

Yeah. When Ig's going to do a show, that's all that fucking matters. This might at Work Ethic. Yeah. When Ig's gonna do a show, that's all that fucking matter. This might be the last gig. Yeah. One time we played this fucking racetrack in England. I think it was Donington

or something, mid part. And he goes, you know, Mike, we do these things. I feel like short order cook. Like I gotta get everybody's order.

You know, it's 50,000 dudes. I gotta get everybody's order. You want fries? You want you you want you want fries you want you want what strawberry yeah yeah this is how he's doing a gig i think it's whole uh even though it's a big arena thing look i ended up playing some of these big but his ethic is still the same well he's like wide open dude that dude like you know when actually goes back to vaudeville maybe maybe this shit is a long long tradition tradition. Yeah. Yeah, but when he performs, I can feel it.

Because he's in a different time zone, man. It's not like a song and dance, man, but it's jarring, and he's emotionally raw, and you can feel that shit. So he wants to make sure everybody's getting connected with that. He's the bow of the boat. And look at this, too. He's also operating a machine. So in a way, he's a bridge for the people to us. He's the big of the boat. And look at this too. He's also operating a machine. So in a way,

he's a bridge for the people to us. He's the big picture dude. Yeah, yeah. And it's important for him to work a gig. Yeah. He don't like, what do you call it,

paint by numbers, going through the motions, sleepwalking. He ain't into that shit. No, no. It's like, let's work this fuck. And that way,

it's just like D. Boone. I couldn't believe that. Yeah, D. Boone was totally like, well like D. Boone. He was like that, too. I couldn't believe that. Yeah, D. Boone was totally like, well, D. Boone, big bones, a little heavier, always getting picked on in school. Now I'm going to. Yeah. It's not like I'm not better than you guys, but now it's time to play some guitar and sing for you.

He can fucking play guitar, dude. Yeah. So that was a trippy thing for me when playing in both situations. Sure. And seeing that comment, even though they were from a different time zone. And different time of your life. And different time of my life. These guys, that shows you the, what can I say, arts, expression.

It's a fabric that connects us no matter where. Somebody once told me, it's not where you're from, it's where you're at, and that's the fabric of expression. Yeah, yeah. Which, like George Carlin, I found out later his thing was Lenny Bruce. Sure. Yeah, Lenny. And so I got into him,

and I got his records. There's a groove, man. Picnic on the graveyard thing. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but the dude was intense, too. Like, I'm going to work this show. I'm going to talk about significant things. We're going to have some fun with it.

But we're going to blow some minds. We're going to deal with it. Yeah. Prior, too. I'm so lucky to be. things. We're going to have some fun with it. But we're going to blow some minds. We're going to deal with it. Yeah. Pryor, too. I'm so lucky to be. Pryor, too. Pryor, too. Yeah, yeah.

But he's a little later, right? This, I think, is in the 50s, in the 60s. Yeah, Lenny was the seed of what became later Pryor and later Carlin. Okay. Carlin and Pryor were both sort of mainstream, and then Lenny blew their minds, and then they had to figure out how to- That's right. Yeah.

And there was another guy, too, Newhart. Yeah, Newhart's great. And Shelly- Shelly Berman, yeah. Because Lenny talks about this. See, I started checking this out. The story with Shelly Berman and the gangsters. With the Shelly Bermans making fun of the gangsters in the office.

Yeah, Lenny tells that story. Whoa. Right, right. Yeah, yeah. And there was another cat. He was called... Lord Buckley? That's what I was going to say.

He would do the scat rap. Yeah. You know what? We found out punk... That was just for... You know, somebody once said, the only thing new is you finding out about it. Yeah, that's right.

Because a lot of this stuff were part of these kind of traditions. But it's interesting. Walt Whitman, right? Yeah, sure. 1855. DIY. He puts that out himself.

Leaves the grass. There you go. Boom. Woody Guthrie. Raymond, you know, I meet Raymond Pettibone, right, in the scene. These people I met in the scene. I met him down here. Yeah, they had fake names and they were insane, obviously.

But they were deep dudes. They knew more about music. They taught me and D. Boone so much about art stuff. I learned about Dada and Surreal. From Pantone? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Fucking, he's the first guy who plays Coltrane for me.

Oh, wow. We thought, hold on, Navy, how's that? I didn't know jazz. Actually, we thought they were old dudes doing punk. Yeah. I didn't know he was dead. Yeah. You know, you listen to that stuff.

It was like Ascension, you know? It was like, what the fuck? Live in Seattle. That is interesting. It's like you guys are sort of closer to Coltrane than other punk bands, that's for sure. We thought they were part of the movement. Because we didn't know anything. All we knew was arena rock.

But you saw it as a movement early on. I mean, you and Boone said, this is our part of it. You could tell that some of the shit was totally provocative. Some of the shit was anti-rock and roll. Sure. Now, the way we saw rock and roll connection was Little Richard. Yeah. Jerry Lee Lewis.

Yeah. It wasn't so much Pete Frampton. I mean, nowadays, anybody who plays music, I have respect for. Right. But there was other ideas when I was at that age. At that time, time though it seemed like the technique was too much uh the issue right but when when you listen to those early minute men went out because after i listened to the entire you know double nickels on the dime oh wow yeah

listen the whole thing straight through and it was like where did this come from i mean like you're telling me your influences or credence or whatever but you know your bass playing and his guitar playing and then the drumming it's, it doesn't sound like anything else. So what were you guys drawing from? You just rolling with it? Would you just jam it out? Yeah. Well, some of them records from overseas, there was a band Wire

and an album called Pink Flag. That was the little idea. Okay. The idea put in parliament with Captain Beefheart, there was a band called pop group okay and they're the guys that said why not so why not do anything you want to right just uh like mule right yeah you're sure you're not going to get another generation but you can yeah get the donkey and horse fucking yeah so that's what we thought we came up with that idea and then the

idea there's only two categories gigs and flyers and everything that ain't a gig is a flyer the idea of a club gig was so profound on us nobody in the middle yeah maybe like when you're working a thing sure right there's just the gig goer and you that's it and there's no yeah there's some guy at the door maybe but he ain't in between you yeah right so we thought you know and after a whole teenage life of arena rock we thought this was so profound so albums are trying to come up with your own sound these are flyers to get people to the gig right so we're trying to make the music interesting right purpose right but not as as works into themselves and we didn't you know we're so much

in the moment yeah and then once you got into gigs i'm so glad in fact the first idea of records d-boom wanted there was these booths you could put 50 cents in and made these wax records. Yeah, yeah, yeah. D. Boone wanted to do that so they'd destroy them, you know, like Mission Impossible, the shit would destroy. Yeah, just...

Yeah, we thought the whole idea of things lasting was part of the problem. Right. You should be in this permanent reinventing yourself. You know, when you're a younger man, it's... And you just wanted to... So were the live shows that the Minutemen did all different? Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. So, like, in terms of... There was parts in two where we had to improvise. Yeah. You built that in all the time. Yeah. And that must have been great. Also, it played it all like it's one song.

Right. They weren't supposed to be little songs. It was like one big river. And you still think that way. I mean, with these operas. With operas, absolutely. Yeah. I never thought I was going to get into that shit.

Right. But when I finally dealt with D. Boone getting killed, I couldn't put it in one song. What happened? You guys had done like four records. Our last tour was opening for this band. Actually, we had to buy the album. This band called R.E.M REM asked us to open up for them.

Yeah. So we'd buy a record to see what they sounded like. Yeah, yeah. It had that ear on a wood block swinging. Yeah, yeah. And it was, whoa, kind of folk with the driving drum under it. Yeah. Get to meet them.

And God, they knew about all the musics. They're incredible guys. Yeah. Peter and Michael. Yeah. Mike and Bill. Yeah. But that ends up our last tour because D. Boone was in a van and was in a wreck.

Yeah. And he was killed. Yeah. Yeah, the band was over. Yeah. We had done more than four records. You mean like albums? Yeah, full albums.

Yeah, yeah, maybe four. And we made a bunch of little- Yeah, the EP thing was huge, albums? Yeah, full albums. Yeah, yeah, maybe four. And we made a bunch of little... Yeah, the EP thing was huge, right? Yeah, that's right. Those are the flyers. So are the albums. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Double Nickels on the Dime,

you mentioned. That was mixed in one night. Ethan James did that. I paid for that. It was $1,100. Actually, it was one album and then the Huskers came to town and made a double album.

So we said, fuck, we should make one too. So we wrote up a bunch of songs. I talked to Bob Mould about SST. Bob. About sweeping over there. Well, me and D. Boone put out their first album. It's called Lance P. Record.

Yeah. Because we had a label called New Alliance. Punk was about not just a band, but putting on shows and putting out records. D. Boone had a fanzine called The Prol. Yeah. All kinds of shit. Yeah. I mean, it maybe didn't get as big as the idea

of the minute man but we tried all these little things and we put out the first husker album uh-huh those guys uh beautiful man and they uh that's why when you open up the album it says take that huskers because we were inspired by them to do that but or isn't there you know there's a picture on that's a fire hose record well that's actually a picture of my wall yeah yeah but there's huskers on that so people said why'd you make a fucking husker record. Well, that's actually a picture of my wall. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But there's Huskers on that. Yeah, there's Huskers on there. So people said, why'd you make a fucking Husker album? I said, no, that's my wall. So, all right, so.

Because Bob Dylan, I took that If and You Don't Know by now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's where Irfan comes from? Yeah, If and. Yeah, yeah. He took these witty kind of things. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, the Huskers are Minneapolis.

Yeah. And that's where Dylan is. Dylan's Minnesota. Sure, so it's all connected. But nobody got that. D. Boone used to say to me, you Minnesota. Sure. So it's all connected. But nobody got that. D. Boone used to say to me, you know, your fucking lyrics

are too spacey. People don't know what you're... So on that record, I read a landlady note, you know, Kathy ceiling, it's leaking. And I said,

is this real enough, D. Boone? You know, don't use the shower. Yeah, yeah. But he had a... Yeah. I wasn't that good. I still ain't that good with...

What seems to me to be very clear and apparent, like people don't know what the fuck I'm talking about. Like the title, it just meant going the speed limit. Which title? Double nickels on the net. People thought it had something to do about freeway numbers. But you have a way.

You have a language. I mean, I don't know you, and I just met you. And it's understandable, but it takes a second. Pedro speak? Yeah. Is that what it takes a second. Pedro speak? Yeah. Is that what it is? Is it Pedro speak? Is that what you call it?

No, I don't call, but I've had people say that. Because most people in Pedro don't talk like me. But not only that, but you have a respect. The way you talk is there's a familiarity with the mythology that is your life. That you reference people that you know personally by their first names or by nicknames. And you use the word weldererman and this kind of stuff, there's a poetic to it. And I think the poetic of it also is shown in your music.

There's a way of speaking that's uniquely yours, but I can understand it. Oh. Well, look, we never knew what words were for in the songs. We thought they were like lead guitars. Yeah. Well, Dylan was like a guy who showed up at Weird Uncle at Thanksgiving and his muttering shit.

Yeah. But all the rest, what is smoke on the water you know the bong yeah we didn't know the fuck this shit was yeah but with when we went and saw those punk gigs it was like them dudes were trying to tell you something right and so that's the mood again it's influence of the movement yeah even though yeah it's kind of weird and insane, they are trying to get something across. They're trying to, and we just didn't get that before. So I think that's what we started putting into our spiel. We want to make it personable.

You know, life isn't that long. Right. You don't take things for granted. You want to make things alive. So why shouldn't spiel be alive? Why shouldn't any kind of expression, you know, the man who's going to repair this hammer, the man who alive what shouldn't uh any kind of expression you know the man who's going to repair this hammer the man who built this hammer all this kind of shit yeah you gotta embolden some kind of life into it yeah that uh uh i don't know taking it's almost like

taking uh power that's been took uh pride out of you right did you have these realizations i mean i know we talked a little bit about dropping acid earlier. Yeah. Did you? I think eating ale was good for that kind of stuff because you ask yourself a lot of questions. I mean, the last time I did was 83, so what's that? I don't know.

It's a long time. Yeah. 93, 2003. 32 years I ate ale. But there was a period where I ate it every weekend. Yeah. And like where the corner, see that corner? Yeah.

Is it poking in or is it poking out and I'm poking around? You know, that kind of shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You got to start reevaluating all your assumptions. Perception. And your assumptions. Well, some, my pop would say, you assume you make an ass out of you and me. Yeah.

So think about all, like what we did, Arena Rock this uh the punk movement you know gigs and flyers right it's not like the old scheme right so l help uh clear the slate in a way and we would call it loaves of wonder bread you just keep wondering and wondering and wondering i wouldn't make a whole lifestyle of that but for that boom in my life i think it was really important sure because i didn't there was so much pressure about what is right. What is, what is talent? What is acceptable? What will, uh, you know, high school peer thing, uh, what, what peer pressure? Yeah.

Right. Should I like it? Because they like me liking that shit. It don't mean fuck all. Yeah. Actually, I come back to that with my third opera. Cause I think in middle age, you go over that again. It's like, fuck it.

It's my life. I'm going out anyway. This is a hyphenated man. And's my life. I'm going out anyway. This is a hyphenated man. And all the titles of the songs are something man. Well, it's actually one song with little parts. Oh, so that's how it's going to go. It's one man split into 30 parts. Got it.

Yeah, a little bit Pete Towns in there, right? He's got all the little mirrors. So it's a little part of that. But I think a middle-aged man, you have to make compromises. You have to reconcile. You have to be different parts of things well yeah you all those things because they're still like i just read this thing by uh i don't remember who's uh one of the poets wrote to us to his kid that there's there's always a child inside you that child that you were is there in there okay so like all these different directions you

may have pulled yourself or what you know you still have to reckon with the fact that there's a child in you looking at all these different manifestations of how you survived as long as you have but what's not there of the child is the physical body i know so well you have to reconcile things you don't have that to deal you think minute man see this is the thing about the third opera i never thought i was going to write three i wrote a sad one for the one about your dad's beautiful yeah well it's actually about D. Boone. But I lost my pop too around that period. Why'd you use then...

It's about losing people. Right. But in your heart, the emotional driver of that was about D. Boone. Well, yeah, because I could use that to... I didn't know how to talk about it. I needed a parallel. I need a motif. Why didn't you know how to talk about it?

I think if you're too literal, you'll lose some truth. Yeah, because you got no distance. You have no distance. Yeah, and language is about labels, and they're never going to really fit. That's why you have to pretend and use symbols and metaphor and analogy. Not totally, but there's no such thing as nonfiction. Right, right. Think about it.

Even those encyclopedias. Second one, God, i lived yeah i think i just wanted to celebrate yeah not dying third one what happened was in 2005 now you know after deep boom got killed i couldn't listen a minute man it made me sad did you think you were gonna stop playing all together oh i did stop it was thirst who got me back. Thirst and more? Yes. Who's the other Thirst? I know. The one from Gilligan's Island. Yeah, Thirst and Howl the Third. That's it. He, because I didn't think people wanted to hear me play without D-Boom,

but he got me to do something called Chaconne Youth and play on an Evil album called. Yeah, that Sonic Youth record. Right, there's some poem that Lee reads. Yeah, and you play on that. Yeah. Actually, I just jammed to steve shelly and then they made a song out of it that's with sonics even when you do a cover they play

right to the record right you can hear the fucking record anyway they got me back into playing and then edward came out from ohio and that's the fire hose and i owe edward a lot because again got me back in the south right so you were like I didn't know you had to pay money to have your number unlisted. But you were heartbroken, I'd imagine, and just devastated. Yeah, I'm in the house drinking. Drinking. And I didn't know you had to pay money to have your phone number not in the book. Right, okay.

So Edward called me up. He says, I'm coming over. Who is this guy? I don't know. He's into U2 and R.E.M. He's got bleached hair. He wasn't into Minutemen? I said, you're coming over.

He said, no. No, he's from Ohio. Well, he had a roommate. I guess he just started college. Yeah. And he, yeah, he's a no no he's a from Ohio well he had a roommate I guess he just started college yeah and he uh yeah he's gonna drive out and I thought you could come out here so I thought if he had balls enough to do that shit okay make a band with him really that's how fire hose happened and he did he play for you seven seven years play for the when he drove out what did you have what did he say he showed I told you he had bleached hair and he's

into you too and shit like had nothing to do with it. But did you... Well, R.E.M. ended up being the last band we toured with, so I had that kind of common thing. And plus, he's a sweet guy, man, and he wanted to play. He'd never been in a band.

He never owned an amp. I bought him his first amp. Did he know your style, though? No. Not really. He's from another scene, you know? Younger. Why'd he call you?

Because he just... He wants to play. Okay. And I guess this guy... Well, what happened, here's what he told me. Yeah. Him and his roommate went and saw Camper Van Beethoven. Sure, sure. And the bass player in that band told him that there's no more Minuteman.

Mm-hmm. Because what happened to D-Boom? Right. And so I guess the guy, they were baracho or some shit. And he goes, why'd you call up Watt? He's in the fucking book. So he called me up. And I was like, come on.

But he showed up at the door. Yeah. And that's how Firehose. He's a good player. Yeah. And at that period, and then Georgie's from Minutemen. So that's how Firehose got going. It was hard.

Those were the hardest, hardest, hardest things for me. Just to play. Yeah, I told you I got into music to be with my friends. I'm not really a musician. Right. So he's gone. Right. Yeah.

What to do? Well, I kept plowing on. Now, what happened was, 2005, these guys, Tim and Keith, want to make a documentary on the Minutemen. Now, I've been asked by a lot of dudes, and I always said no. But these dudes were actually too young to see us us so they don't know anything about the band yeah so all the story can be about you finding out about us yeah well i gotta listen to minute men again i gotta know what i'm talking about they want me to go down it's called we jammy connor

this uh documentary yeah you can see it on youtube uh so i'm listening to the music again these little songs like what you just listened to yeah i was like I'm listening to the music again, these little songs, like what you just listened to. Yeah, I was like, man, I want to do this again. Yeah. But I don't want to rip D. Boone and Georgie off. Yeah. So I'm thinking, how can I do this without it being fucking, you know,

Patsy and Fonzie and Happy Days and shit. Me being just a rip-off sentimental nostalgia fraud. Yeah. Same time, I'm with the Stooges in Madrid and it's 400th birthday of Mr. Cervantes'

Don Quixote. Oh, Don Quixote, okay. Okay, so we're doing some gig in La Mancha in celebration. Yeah, yeah. It was in an alley. It was the turpiest fucking gig.

Wow. Of course, it tore it up, man. Ronnie and Scotty. That man, Stooges playing in 2005, 2006 was like, whew. Yeah. But the tell we stay in downtown Madrid, it's next to some museum called Prado. Yeah.

Well, they got eight, nine Mr. Bosch's. One guy I got, because of those- Hieronymus Bosch? Yeah, because of those encyclopedias and the time I was a boy yeah in Virginia I really got into astronauts dinosaurs and these weird paintings yeah okay they're they're in real life yeah first I spent hours I couldn't find them because they don't call them that right what they call them what El Bosco so you go there look for El Bosco okay well I see them in real life yeah and whoa i mean the dude there's no glass and they're painting on the

wood you know and the the guard to earthly delights yeah hey wayne and adoration magi uh seven deadly sins a stone surgeon and maybe this temptation saint anthony that might be his but anyway they're all in there and looking at these things all these little things to make one big thing. I thought this is like a Minutemen gig or a Minutemen album. Yeah. So this is when it starts getting on me. I can do like an opera, a third opera. Yeah.

And I can use this style of the Minutemen short format. Yeah. But the libretto. Yeah. I won't be totally ripping off my old guys because I'll write about being middle-aged punk rocker because the Minutemen would never write about that. We weren't there. Right. And that was the basis of it.

So it was all these things. Then I brought in one third thing. It was the Wizard of Oz movie. Yeah. Because it seems a lot about middle age, what makes a man. I think you live that out as a younger man but you start thinking about it right right you're losing it yeah well if you look at dorothy in that movie man right if you notice in the book because i went and read the book after the farmhands are the

fucking lion and the scarecrow and shit yeah so i'm and then there's flying monkey man and there's the man behind the curtain man and the munchkinkin man, and she's looking at all these kind of dudes. It's kind of coming of age for her. Yeah. I think she's only in love with the dog, right? Right. So it ain't like that kind of coming of age. But she's seeing the game, you know, what men do.

Even when the man behind the curtain man, you know where I come from, you're brave, you get the medal, you get the diploma. You know, validation, right? In middle age, you're like, you know, either you go postal or, you know, you just say, fuck it. Right. There's a lot of things that don't matter like they used to. They don't at all. Right.

So, you know, this is my life. I've done everything you've asked of me. And look, I'm still going to shrivel up. So I'm going to make some decisions. This is what middle age might not be a bad thing. Because you got experiences. Your body ain't as strong, but of course when you're younger,

you know everything, so you do have that disadvantage. Yeah, but the weird thing is ultimately what you're talking about is really wrestling and you lost a friend, so you wrestle with that, but when you get to be middle-aged

and you start to realize, oh shit, I'm running out of time and some things aren't really that important that I thought used to be. And then all of a sudden you're thinking, like, well, I'm really running out of time. I don't need to panic, but I better make sure my shit is in order. That's right. Make the, you know, almost econo, bang for buck, make it count. Right.

And also realize, like, you know, to really take in the idea of, like, you know, that you die. It's hard, man. Fuck it is. And your dude's of like you know that that you die it's hard man fuck it is and you're in your dudes alongside going down yeah you see it you see it yeah my ma just come out of cancer surgery and she's 80 i know it's coming but you know our minds we try to try to keep everything out sure so what i tried to do was deal with some middle-aged with hyphenated man and there's you make a lot of compromises but you know there's still some stuff i can't reconcile and the big thing is how we treat each other on a inhumane level i don't think there's any way to justify that that might kind of be a cynical uh you know summation of the whole trip just wrote that whole fucking thing

freeform i used d boone's guitar you did i had to i was so scared to talk about some things i thought man just like you know maybe you still like me if i wear the flannels sure man so you know so i used this and i can't really play guitar like he showed me some things a lot of the four things and pull offs yeah and uh but yeah i just I wanted to write the bass second. I was doing all these kind of things not to make it too much Minuteman to have respect for them guys. I thought, if you really don't want it to be too much Minuteman, get rid of the only Minuteman, which was the bass player.

Yeah. So a year later, I went back to, we had a date with Tony Mamone, bass hero for me from Perrubo. He's got a studio in Brooklyn. In those days, D-Boom days, any music we put through our band.

But after Firehose, it was like, I'm going to make a band for each proj. So I put together Missing Men explicitly to do the third opera. Second Men was

for the second opera. Black Gang was for the first opera. So this is fascinating. So the way you transcended the fear of hacking yourself was to make a new band for each project but then also you know to constantly have it in your head to respect the sacred nature

of the minute men so then when you come around to do the final opera the the the idea that you're going to not play bass because that's the one part of the minute man that still exists but you're going to honor d boom by using his guitar which you don't know how to play that well, then you would definitely get a new sound and you would have the heart of the loss that is sort of what middle age is about by playing his guitar and also respect the situation. Right.

You can talk about this, Watt. In the middle of it, I give that poem, Loss and Liberation. It was going to have an instrumental. I actually talk about this, Watt. Like in the middle of it, I give that poem, Loss and Liberation. It was going to have an instrumental. I actually wrote that in St. Petersburg. I said, because at the end of the second opera, I turn into a pelican. You know, pelicans got no songs.

Yeah. Because I think some truths ain't about words. Yeah. But I said, you know what? Us humans kind of talk to each other with words, so I got to write some words for this. So Loss and Liberation. And I used him for confidence a little ways by using his guitar but i think by making my bands

for specific projects it's also respect to the dudes i'm playing with sure yeah this is for you i picked you for this yeah so yeah do it you know i've never done uh an audition yeah i've never said try out no i just get a sense and you know everybody everybody knows you and everybody respects you and you know everybody you know the. Everybody knows you and everybody respects you. And you know everybody. You know the guy who knows the guy. Okay, maybe that's it. I just think if you practice enough at something, you can learn it.

Because the minute man, actually, historically, people know of us. But in the day punk was so small, a lot of people didn't see us. Yeah. By the time Firehose comes along, a lot more. Punk went into college. They're on college radio. Sure. It wasn't that in the older days.

Well, that's what happens, man. It's like even now, a bunch of people are going to listen to this right now, and they're like, who's this guy? And then they're going to go listen to the fucking Minutemen for the first time. And then they're going to listen to Firehose for the first time. Like right now, for me and you talking, you're going to blow people's minds because they got this whole catalog of a life's work of Mike Watt that evolves. I mean, hyphenated, man, I would bet someone would argue

it's the best record you ever made. Oh, you're the most kind, Mark. Dee Boone used to say the knowing's in the doing. Yeah, yeah. Well, you did it, buddy. Well, I keep trying to. Well, I just keep trying to. Well, it was great talking to you. It was an honor.

Much respect, Mark, for having me on board. Love that guy. A wizard. One of the great wizards. Mike Watt, folks. One of the great wizards. Go to WTFpod.com for all your WTFpod needs. Yeah, do that.

Get on the mailing list. Go to the calendar section, WTFpod slash calendar. And, you know, see where I'm playing. Oh, now there's no buzz. Boomer lives! It's winter, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So, no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats.

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