WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 632 - Peter Bogdanovich

Episode Date: August 26, 2015

It’s been 14 years since Peter Bogdanovich made a movie, but that doesn’t mean he’s slowing down. The man who burst on the scene with The Last Picture Show is busier than ever, and he joins Marc in the garage to reflect on a life in show business, starting with his early foray into theater to his friendship with Orson Wells to his latest movie She’s Funny That Way. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Lock the gate! Alright, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fuckineers? What the fucktopians? What the fucksikins? How are you? This is Mark Maron. Did you call? This is WTF the podcast. Is this what you ordered? Is this what you're supposed to be listening to? Welcome to the show. I'm glad you're here. Today I have Peter Bogdanovich on the show, the film director. You might know him from his many impressive credits, starting with The Last Picture Show. Well, that's the one that we started with that I knew. Moving through What's Up Doc on into Daisy Miller. He did Mask.

He did Texasville later. There's a lot of things that he did. Friend of Orson Welles being also a film critic, film intellectual. Also, he was involved with Dorothy Stratton when she was brutally murdered. And he was, oh, Paper Moon. Of course, Paper Moon had a profound impact on me when i was a kid but he's a he's an interesting guy he also played the therapist on the sopranos he's had a a long career he was there in hollywood in the 70s when things were changing it was an

honor to talk to him i probably could have talked longer sometimes i feel that way with some people but i think we had a good chat and it was, you kind of got a sense of his personality because there's a couple of junctures in his career where you kind of ask yourself, what the fuck happened there? I asked him a bit, but it was great. It was great to talk to him. I'll be sharing that with you momentarily. So the other thing I wanted to replug is the Howell Premium. It's the new home for all the WTF archives.

If you haven't switched your account over, email support at hal.fm, and they'll get you switched over at no additional cost. New subscribers to HAL Premium, you get $3.99 a month if you go to hal.fm and use the promo code WTF. I did it. I got a good deal on it. I just got it on my phone. It looks good. The app looks good.

Also, these dates in Australia, you know, London is coming up and Dublin. Both of those are next week. And those are doing well. But I'm going to be in Australia, October 15th at the State Theater in Sydney, Australia, October 16th at the Palais Theater in Melbourne. And October 17th at Brisbane City Hall in Brisbane. I need you, if you're listening in Australia and you give a shit and you're a fan of mine, you should go buy your tickets now because I need to know that it's worth the trip. You dig what I'm saying?

I want to come down there. There's been some momentum behind getting me down there, but we need to sell the tickets because I don't want to walk into a sad situation. Not a bad place for me to be sometimes comedically, but I don't need to be thrown into it. I'd rather throw myself into it on my own volition. The sadness, the bleakness, the darkness that is just always there, just right under the surface waiting for me to swim in. just right under the surface waiting for me to swim in. The heart test.

Yes, I had the heart tests. Today I woke up. I had some eggs. I've been very nervous about my health because my brain wanders. I don't have a child. I am dating somebody, but she's not always at my house, so left to my own devices. Sometimes when I wake up, I like to wonder how long that's going to go on for. But I've been having some aches and pains and this and that. And as you know, those of you

who've been with me, I had an event when I went running a couple of weeks ago. And today I went to the doctor. Today was my stress test day. And this is where they inject an isotope, I believe it's called, into your vein on an IV that they leave dangling from your arm. And then they take pictures of your heart. And then they put you on a treadmill and you push your heart up to a certain rate. And they check your blood pressure. They monitor your EKG. And then within 15 minutes or so of doing that, they do another series of images of your heart stressed post-exercise.

of your heart stressed post-exercise. Tomorrow I go in for a sonogram, and I guess I'll get the scoop, get the skinny on my ticker, and then I'll proceed accordingly. I'll know what to do then. As opposed to dealing with my anxiety or the source of my fear or panic or inability to be trusting in an intimate relationship

and my need and desire to to isolate and compulsively be filled with dread as opposed to getting to the source of that trauma and working through it and grieving properly i'll just focus on whatever it is next that will take me to a fucking doctor but i'll tell you man just sitting just sitting in equipment you know and the woman who was in charge of shooting me up and taking the pictures of my heart was like just out of her mind, like intense and crazy and like, hi, how are you? What's going on? This is where we're going to do this. Please put your arms up.

Please put your arms up. Okay. You know, when there's just someone's trying to act, you know, enthusiastically polite, but at the core is just fury, just pure fury. And you're interacting with this weird template that just does not fit. I literally, usually I'm nervous at the doctor, and I was just doing what she said and saying thank you and stuff. But at some point when she was loading up a syringe, I said, how you doing?

You okay today? You okay? She's like, yeah, I'm swamped, but I'm okay. Just swamped. And I'm like, all right, there's no bubbles in that fucking tube, are there? Because I'd like to live through the test. She leveled off, though. But Jesus Christ.

I mean, like, you know, if you're going to be in that sort of, they're just going on business as usual. This is the other thing I can't, it's just baffling to me. I'm in there to see. I have to assume that they give people bad news about their fucking tickers every day. And that, you know, at some point when you work in a doctor's office or you are a doctor, you realize that, you know, planned obsolescence or obsolescence in general is just part of the human condition. And people are going to come and go, not just in the office, but off the fucking mortal coil. And, you know, you just have to deal with that. That's part of the job. Oh, that guy. Yeah,

he was in here. It wasn't good. I guess he didn't make it. But for God's sakes, try not to make it business as usual while you're in there. Try to focus a little bit. I mean, they were talking about I was on the treadmill with, you know, all these wires hanging off me looking at the EKG. And they're like, so what? You have to be out of here by one thirty. Right. And the woman, the intense woman said to the woman working she's like yeah and the doctor's not even here yet yeah I I know I I heard he was two minutes away I'm like well you know can we not have that conversation you know in I want to I want to think that people care and that there's hope and that you're organized and that you know that my shit is you've got my right the doctor

literally came into the room for for a minute i said did you get my my test results from the other places like i'll check and then apparently he left because a new doctor came in and go where are we with this and then that woman who was over the top with intensity stuck another syringe into the dangling iv off my arm, but I'm here to tell the tale, and we'll see what happens tomorrow. Hey, Brian Jones made some new mugs. Yeah. WTF mugs. I'm not going to tweet them.

I'm telling you first. Okay? I'm telling you first. You can go to BrianRJones.com for the new WTF mugs. If you've listened this far into the monologue, you'll get a mug. If you wanted a mug, yet you fast forward through the monologue, I don't know what to tell you. Guess it's not your day. What else, folks? What else? Hey, very excited about this conversation with Peter Bogdanovich.

I hope you enjoy it. Nice to see you, Mr. Bogdanovich. Nice to see you. Yeah, I'm excited to talk to you, but sometimes it's tricky because you've been around a while. Yeah. talk to you but it sometimes is tricky because um you've been around a while yeah you know and uh and i know you have this this new film coming out but i'm sort of hung up a little bit on the whole history of your work what do you think is the primary difference in the way that people you know take in film now because i know you come from a time where where film was really a lot of time was spent understanding it reading into it thinking about it there

was a whole culture around that that seems to have faded away yeah yes it's disappeared yeah in a film culture in America is non-existent right now it was barely existent to begin with wasn't it I mean it was a period in the in the 50 late 50s and 60s when it was it was quite a bit of stuff going on because the French New Wave influence made its way across over here. Cahiers de Cinema, right? Cahiers de Cinema and all those guys that were on Cahiers, whether it was Truffaut or Eric Rohmer or Jean-Luc Godard,

they all made films and were writing about films in the 50s and then made films in the late 50s. And then Saris, Andrew Saris picked it up here? In New York, there was Andy Saris and me and a guy at the New York Times named Eugene Archer, who was sort of a secret auteurist. And then there was a magazine in England, too, Movie, which picked up the same kind of critical position. Well, there was something exciting about movies, and it seemed that some of the movies, or a lot of the movies that were being made or being understood, were either classic sort of Hollywood films to sort of determine the language of cinema at that time, right? films to sort of determine the language of cinema at that time, right?

And then some of the movies that you guys made now determine what was great for this generation, but it doesn't seem like anybody's really taking on film that way. No, you're right. I mean, there are certain people, Richard Brody in The New Yorker is very hip, and Anthony Lane is funny in The New Yorker and sometimes pretty good. Yeah. The whole thing between Pauline Kael, for example, and Andy Sarris, that kind of stuff doesn't exist anymore. No one cares and it's too big a field.

There's hardly anything to write about, really. The movies aren't very good. Even the smaller movies? Well, some of the smaller movies, yeah. But I guess, do you find that there is a tremendous difference? I mean, I know there's a lot of garbage, but I mean, there was also a lot of garbage when you were young, too. Yeah, oh, yeah. So, like, sorting out-

There's always a lot of garbage. Right. But the proportion of quality has dropped. Right. Well, the proportion itself has grown so large that you don't even know where things are coming from. We're in a period of decadence in terms of movies. Is that the same as decay? Decadence.

It's true. Yeah. But when you started out as a film critic? No, no, no. I started out as an actor. Really? In 1955 when I was 15. In New York?

Well, I got a job. I was studying acting at the American Theater Institute. What's it called? The American Academy of Dramatic Arts. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. They had a Saturday class for teenagers, and I was studying there. And the lady that was the main teacher there said, would you like to be an apprentice this summer in Traverse City, Michigan?

They're doing a season of 10 shows, 10 plays, and you would be an apprentice, and you could be acting in the children's theater and also for the main company if there was something for you well I did that and actually by the seventh week I was playing a lead in one of the plays yeah and that was my fur then I did the next three summers I also was in doing summer children's theater no New York Shakespeare Festival yeah in Central Park uh-huh Stratford Shakespeare Festival in Central Park, Stratford Shakespeare Festival in Connecticut,

and a theater in Falmouth. It was fascinating. It was also that first summer, we had some sort of secondary movie stars who came every week. For them to make some money. A different one every week. Like Zazu Pitts, Richard Arlen, Veronica Lake. Really?

Oh, yeah. And they would act? Oh, yeah. They were traveling around the country doing this one play, whatever the play was. So it was like summer stock. It was summer stock. It was star summer stock. Right, right.

And the resident company would rehearse the play without the star for a week. And then she would come or he would come for a couple of days before we opened. We'd rehearse it once or twice and then open. With Veronica Lake. Veronica Lake. She was something, right? She was Sylvia Sidney. Veronica Lake was very short. Really? Amazing.

Was that the first time you realized like, oh, it's an illusion? It's an illusion. So my first, and then I studied acting with Stella Adler for four years. So I've been in the show business for 60 years. It's insane. It must be. How does that feel? Really weird. I would imagine.

But where did you grow up? In the city? Manhattan, yeah. Right? And what kind of family? What did your father do? My father was a painter. Like a painter painter?

Yeah, a painter, an artist. what type what was this his style well um sort of post-impressionist oh yeah but with an element of the byzantine as well because he had very bright colors successful uh no no artists are very rarely successful while they're alive right the people who make money are the art dealers after they're dead do you have some of your father's paintings? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. My sister takes care of that. And it's just you and your sister? Yeah. I have two daughters and three grandsons. That's exciting. Yeah. How are you doing as a grandfather? Well, I don't let him call me grandpa because then it would make me go into my Walter Brennan impression. I don't want to hear that, Mr. P. No grandpa, huh? No grandpa.

What do they call you? Papa. Okay, that's decent. Papa. And what did your mom do? My mother was working in a job she hated for some years, and then she finally ended up teaching herself with some help how to make frames. And she became a very, very fine frame maker

and framed my father's paintings. It worked out. They were a team. They were a team, yeah. So when did the interest in movies begin? Well, I loved movies from the time I was a kid. They took me to see movies all the time. What's your earliest memory of a movie?

Well, I don't remember it terribly well, but I'm told that I was taken to see Dumbo when I was three, and that I hated it, and had to be taken from the theater screaming. I'm wondering if there wasn't some precognition. To your future. Get me out of this.

The first thing I remember really seeing when I was five, my parents took me to the Metropolitan Opera, which was on 34th Street at that time. And I saw Don Giovanni, Mozart's Don Giovanni with Ezio Pinza and Zinka Milanov. And I remember being scared to death when the guy went to hell at the end. The thing opened up and he went, ah! So the opera worked. Yeah, it was good.

Yeah. But movies, I always liked movies. Went to my parents. My father took me to the Museum of Modern Art to see silent films. My father was about 20 years older than my mother. And he basically grew up with silent films. Sound didn't come in until he was 30.

Really? Yeah. So he had a respect for it. And he communicated that to me. And he was also sophisticated in that because he was a painter, art was an important part of his life, so he probably went to the museum, the Met. Oh, yeah, sure.

He took me all the time. To visit his favorites? Yes, and he took me he took me all the time to visit his favorites yes and he took me to to galleries on 57th street which used to be the the great place for galleries it's a gift that you you come from uh such an appreciation yes and they always did everything they could to encourage me artistic in my in my artistic endeavors supportive very very. Very, very supportive. In your acting. Yeah. And then what happened was, there was,

I had had a column in my high school newspaper for four years. About? Movies and theater. Really? Yeah. Were you mocking,

were you mimicking somebody? No, I was, I don't know why I decided to do that, but I did. It was called As We See It. They said,

who's the we? And I said, it's the royal we. And eventually, anyway. Were you a popular kid in high school? Well, they called me Bugs

because I did a very good impression of Bugs Bunny from the time I was in kindergarten. Do you bring that back with your grandkids now? Sometimes. Oh, good. And, yeah, they like the Bugs Bunny and Porky Pig.

But I also ended up being called Dean and Jerry and Marlon because I did all those impressions. Dean and Jerry, Jerry Lewis? Martin and Lewis. Oh, yeah? Oh, sure. You did Dean? I did Dean, yeah. He was something, wasn't he? He and Lewis. Oh, yeah? Oh, sure. You did Dean? I did Dean, yeah. He was something, wasn't he?

He was great. I love you. God, he was so good. I just quoted him this morning. I burped and I said, I got enough gas to get to Pittsburgh. You do sound like him. Did you ever read that Nick Tosh's book?

Oh, yeah. Oh, what a great book, huh? It was interesting, yeah. He's a hell of a writer, that guy. Very good writer. Okay, so you're writing a column. I was writing a great book, huh? It was interesting, yeah. He's a hell of a writer, that guy. Very good writer. So, okay, so you're writing a column. I was writing a column for four years in high school. Like a dope, and it was a very good, very ritzy high school.

It was a collegiate school. It was a school in the country. Really? 14-something. Really? Yeah. Where the hell was that? It's still there?

Yeah, they moved, but it used to be on 77th Street between Broadway and West End. So these were sophisticated kids? Pretty hip kids. A lot of them wealthy. Right, right. It was like a dope. I didn't realize when I was in high school that I could have gotten into movies free writing that column. Oh, right.

Work the angle. I could have, but I didn't realize that until I got out of high school. And then in order to get into movies and theater for free, because I was broke, I said I continued writing for some cockamamie college magazine called Ivy Magazine, which was... What college? I didn't go to college, but it went to all the Ivy League colleges. When I was 19 19 still studying with

stella i had lied to stella and said i was 18 when i was 16 and that's how i got in because i was supposed to be 18 but i was tall and they bought it and uh when i was about 18 or not end of 18 or 19 i was sitting in a diner with five actors from Stellas. And I said, I'd like to direct you. I don't know why I said this. Who were these actors? Actors from... Anybody?

Nobody famous. Just a bunch of actors from the studio, from the Stellas. And I said, I'd like to direct you guys in a scene. And I said, I'd like to direct you guys in a scene. Scene class was usually two actors doing a scene or one actor doing a monologue. Right. Well, I got the four or five actors together and we found a scene from a play by Clifford Odets

called The Big Knife, which had a very good... I love that. That's a great play. Yeah. Good movie, too. Thereby hangs a tale. Yeah. So we did the scene.

Which one? Toward the end. Thereby hangs a tale. Yeah. So we did the scene. Which one? Toward the end, something in the third act. And when it was over, Stella, the class applauded, and Stella stood up and said, Very good, darlings, you're very good, but you've been directed. Who directed you? And they pointed at me. I was in the back of the studio, and they said, Peter.

And Stella turned to me. She says, Bravo, darling. Brilliant. So I thought, shit, maybe I should just direct the whole play. So I got the rights from Clifford Odets at the age of 19. You wrote to him? I wrote to him. I wrote him a long two-page typed letter.

And two weeks later he said, okay. I hadn't done a fucking thing. Yeah. And he said I could do it. Then it took me nine months to raise 15 grand to put it on off-Broadway. And we did. And we got really better reviews than the original production, which was Strasberg and John Garfield

and it ran a respectable 63 performances. Jeez. And then I was out of work. Right. Who did that film? Because it's hard to find that film. Bob Aldrich.

Robert Aldrich. I love that movie, man. Well, the movie wasn't as good as the play. Yeah? But it's a good movie. Steiger was a trip in that movie. Yeah, he was very funny. Yeah. But it's a good movie. Steiger was a trip in that movie. He was very funny.

Yeah. But they cut some of his best lines like, you have pissed away a kingdom today. I love that line. Gone.

That's not in the movie. Yeah, yeah. So you're out of work. So I'm out of work. So I started writing about movies and theater and I got in free. And a guy named Dan Talbot who was an exhibitor and a writer opened a theater two blocks from where I was living with my

parents called the New Yorker Theater. He changed the name of it. It became a very influential theater. The idea of the theater was to run American classics as opposed to foreign films, which most of the art houses in New York were running foreign films. What year were we at? 60. Okay. 60, 61.

So American classics at that point would have been some of the musicals, the westerns? Well, things like The Informer, The Grapes of Wrath, things like that. That was 60, 61. And then I was hired to direct, to be the artistic director of a season of summer theater in Phoenicia, New York. And we did 10 plays. I directed four of them. What were they? Well, the four I did was Tennessee Williams' Camino Real,

Kaufman and Hart's Once in a Lifetime, another play by Clifford called Rocket to the Moon, and a play by Agatha Christie called Ten Little Indians. And we had good success, particularly with all of them were successful. I supervised the other six shows. It was quite an interesting summer. So coming into theater, though, like in directing theater, did you study that or was it more intuitive for you?

Well, I saw about 350 plays in New York on Broadway. My mother insisted that I go to the theater. When you were a kid? When I was 13. And I raised a ruckus. I said, I don't want to go to the theater. I want to see Martin and Lewis in the movie that had just opened. She said, you're going to the theater.

So you saw that. So you really went all the time. So you saw everything. Well, she sent me to this. She insisted that I go to this play. It was Henry Fonda in a play called Point of No Return. I remember sitting in the last row of the balcony and i loved it i didn't think i would love it but i loved what was it about it i don't know it's great and uh but did you feel it because

i went to see some theater recently and i tried to define like i talked about it just the other day the importance of theater what exactly it is there's something that you can't get anywhere else it's like it's a visceral experience and it's moving. It's live. Yeah. And it's exciting. And then after that, I went every weekend to the play. I must have seen 350 shows between 1952 and when I moved out of LA,

New York. Do you remember moments where you were like, holy shit? Oh, yeah. I saw Cat on a Hot Tin Roof directed by Kazan. Oh, my God.

I saw Ben Gazzara's first thing in End is a Man. Really? Which was brilliant. That's the first review I wrote. For Ben? Was Ben Gazzara in End is a Man, which was written by Calder Willingham, based on his book, about a Southern military academy. He plays kind of a sadistic guy. He was very good and very funny, actually.

And that was the beginning for him? That was. For Gazzara. That made him a star, yeah. Yeah. Overnight, really. So that was the beginning for him. That was the thing that made him a star, yeah. Yeah. Overnight, really. So many people got launched out of theater back then. I mean, it made a big difference.

Oh, sure, sure. Doesn't happen at all anymore. It goes the other way now. It doesn't seem to happen at all anymore. No, because now you become a movie star or a TV star, then they drag you to Broadway to sell the play. Yeah, that's right. It's interesting.

I didn't even realize that, how many people came out of theater. John Garfield, you mentioned. I'm sure he was with the play. Yeah, that's right. It's interesting. I didn't even realize that, how many people came out of theater. John Garfield, you mentioned. I'm sure he was with the group. Yeah, right. That was Strasburg's people? It was Strasburg. The actor's group? The group theater.

The group theater. It was Strasburg, Harold Klerman, and Stella. And then the American Method came after that. Well, it was around that time. What happened was- And Odette was involved too, right? Who? Clifford Odette.

He was kind of the house playwright for the group. He wrote Waiting for Lefty, which was a big success. And Golden, what was the other one? Golden Boy? Golden Boy. I saw a revival of that not too long ago. It was great. Yeah, it was terrific.

So anyway, with all that experience in the theater, I still broke. Yeah. And started writing for this magazine. And this fellow got the New Yorker two blocks from where I live. And I went to see him. And I said, I live two blocks away. And I'd like to get in free. And I wrote it.

He said, did you write a program note for Intolerance a couple of months ago? I said, yeah, it wasn't very good. He said, you're right. It wasn't very good he said you're right it wasn't very good and we became friends and I helped him programming the theater a little bit and then

he booked Orson Wells' Othello a film and I wrote a program note for it in which I called it the best Shakespeare film ever made which was absolutely diametrically opposed to what everybody else was saying which was that Lawrence Olivier's movies were the best Shakespeare what was around then Hamlet well he did Hamlet and Henry five right yeah and I didn't like those but I mean, they were okay, but Orson's made a movie.

Yeah. So I wrote this not too long program note. Yeah. About two months later, I get a call from Richard Griffith, who was the curator of the Museum of Modern Art Film Library. And he says, we're going to do a retrospective, the first in the United States of Orson Welles' films. And we'd like you to curate it and write the accompanying monograph.

How old were you? 22. Wow. 21. And that's Mo McCullin. Mo McCullin, yeah. Orson Welles retrospective at that point. The first in the United States.

Was he still making features at that time? Yeah, he was shooting the trial in Europe. Okay, so he was almost done in a way. Well, no, he had still a few more pictures. So I said, why are you asking me? I said, you usually do this, Dick. Why are you asking me? He says, well, I don't like Orson Welles, but a lot of our members do,

and our associates in Europe think he's great and so on. And we read your program note, and you obviously are a partisan, so we'd like you to do it. You like the guy, and you're smart. Why don't you do it? That's right. They paid me 50 bucks. To curate the thing? To curate the thing and to write the monograph, which was published by Doubleday and the museum.

What was the process of curating? You just went film for film? Got the films for them. Okay. So all of them. All the films. It was a three to six month retrospective and it was very popular. And you had seen all the films already?

If I hadn't, I saw them. Yeah. I'd seen most of them. Because you developed a relationship with Wells later. That was later right seven years later but anyway

so that was the first thing I did to the museum yeah and around the same time I had gone to California

on my own I saved up enough money and I went I think it was in early 61 or 62 I can't remember now

yeah I went to convince Clifford Odets early 61 or 62, I can't remember now. Yeah. I went to convince Clifford Odets to let me do another play. Which one? Night Music. Uh-huh. Which he didn't let me do. Why?

He didn't want to do, he said he didn't want to do any more. One was enough. He got the temperature of the New York theater, and it still wasn't on his side totally, so he backed off. But what was he doing he's in hollywood yeah writing scripts what like what what were some of his movies well the the best one is sweet smell of success okay and uh he was also directing he directed a movie called the story on

page one so he didn't have any weird ethical problem with that because he was sort of like a proletariat guy well he was and well that's a long story i think he he was one of the guys that was called up in front of the house on american activities yeah and he gave some names and i think that crushed him yeah i think it did yeah didn't fare well for the rats no they in personally they did it after all was said and done that not too many of them could live with it Sterling Hayden either really so anyway I went to California to talk to Clifford

but by this point I was on the screening lists I knew all the publicity people at various studios so I got in and I had a friend of mine at Harper's Magazine Bob Silvers who eventually started the New York Review of Books. And he wrote me a letter saying, okay, he was at Harper's, he said, I will read anything you write about Hollywood.

So I said, I have an assignment from Harper's to do a piece about the state of the art. About Hollywood. About Hollywood, the state of the art. About Hollywood. About Hollywood, state of the art in Hollywood. And I got to meet everybody. Yeah? And who were those people? Well, I mean, I watched Bob Wise directing West Side Story and I watched- Really?

I met Hitchcock and I met Cary Grant. Well, Cary Grant, actually, I met through Clifford because they were very good friends. You met Hitchcock. Was that a long meeting? Did you have a conversation? Oh, yeah, yeah. I had a conversation with him. He kicks off.

I wrote an article eventually about this whole trip. Yeah. And Harper's passed. Really? And the New Yorker passed on it. What?

Then I just accidentally was introduced to the managing editor of Esquire, Harold Hayes, the legendary Harold Hayes. And I told him about the piece. He read it. He loved it. And they used it as the lead piece in their August 1962 issue. And that was the first thing I did for Esquire.

And I did subsequent, maybe 10 articles for Esquire. That's how I lived. Writing for? For Esquire. That's how I lived. Writing for? For Esquire. And the irony is, then I did another play. Directed a play. Another play. Which one?

Which we had done in summer theater called Once in a Lifetime, a comedy about Hollywood. We had 13 sold-out previews, played great, but opening night was not a good night. And we got sort of mixed reviews, but we didn't have enough money to keep rolling, so we closed after one night. It was very depressing. And it was because we were under finance.

That's a whole long story. Anyway, a friend of ours who I was married by this time, a friend of ours whom I'd met when I was doing a profile on Jerry Lewis for Esquire. Did you sit down with Jerry? Oh, yeah. I was with Jerry for three weeks. It's interesting to me that back in the day, people would spend a month with people doing interviews.

Yeah. So you spent that long with what, like not even a 50-year-old Jerry Lewis? Oh, he was 35. Unbelievable. And what was that experience like? Very, very interesting. Yeah? And I wrote a very long piece.

It was called, they said it was the longest profile ever published by Escort. What did you find complex about him? Well, he was a pretty complicated guy. In what way? Well, hard to say. I mean, he was funny, but he was also introspective, and he was all over the place. He was directing, producing, writing, starring. What did you think of his reputation

as being an auteur and respected in France? What did you think of his films as a critic? I liked some of them. Yeah. And I met his favorite director, who was Frank Tashlin, who was also a comedy, a cartoon director. Anyway, Frank came to New York, came to see us.

He said, what do you want to direct, theater or movies? I said, movies. He said, what are you doing in New York? You should come, we make them in L.A. Within four months, Polly and I, my first wife, moved to Los Angeles. You had children already? No, with the express purpose of getting into the movies. And a year after we arrived, by absolute coincidence,

I was at the same showing of a movie. It wasn't a preview or anything. It was the same showing of a movie called Bay of Angels, a French film. And sitting behind me was Roger Corman, who was with somebody who knew somebody I was with. And sitting behind me was Roger Corman. Right. Who was with somebody who knew somebody I was with. And I was introduced to Roger Corman. And you knew him, obviously, at that time.

Of him. Of him. Yeah. And he said, I've read your stuff in Esquire. Right. Would you like to write for movies? I said, yes. That's what you thought, like, this is the best. Everything's working out.

It's amazing. So within a year, not only did he offer me a job writing movies, he asked me to work with him on the film he was going to direct. First he asked me to read the script and give me his opinion, give him my opinion. And I said, it's terrible. He said, yeah, I know it's terrible. He said, I'd like you to do a rewrite. He said, I'll pay you $300 and no credit.

Okay. But at that time, so you had obviously read a lot of plays, worked in a lot of plays, directed plays. You were taking apart movies. You were on sort of the cutting edge of film criticism. You were involved in that. You understood how it all worked. But had you written a screenplay at that time and before?

But you knew the form. Well, I knew it. I'd seen enough movies to get the idea, and I'd read a lot of screenplays. But I forgot to mention that after the Wells retrospective at the museum, the same place I met Harold Hayes, an Esquire guy, I saw a film by Howard Hawks called Hattari, which was his new film.

And I called my friend at Paramount and I said, look, if I can get the Museum of Modern Art to do a Hawks retrospective with Paramount, pay for it. And they said, and they got back to me,

they said, yes. So I called Richard Griffith and I said, if you'll put on a Hawks retrospective, Paramount will, I mean, yeah, Paramount will pay for it.

Great. So I got paid by Paramount for the first money I made from movies, $200 a week, to write the monograph, interview Hawks. I went to California to interview Hawks and find all the films. How was that for you? Oh, he became a lifelong friend. As did Jerry. As did Jerry Lewis?

Yeah. To this day? To this day, yeah. I called him the other day. Really? Oh, sure. The other day I called him about a year ago. I called him,

Jerry, it's been 50 years we've known each other. You realize we're having our 50th anniversary? Yeah. Hey, Sam, Peter says it's been 50 years since we know each other. That's what you got. He was very happy about that. Anyway, so I did

the retrospective of Howard Hawks, which was the first in the United States also. And the following year, I said to the museum, how about Hitchcock? Let's do retrospective. And they said fine, and we got Universal to pay for that

so this is the mid 60s this was Orson was 61 yeah Hawke 62 Hitchcock 62 so all these guys were still making movies

oh yeah and like some of it Hitchcock's retrospective was coordinated with the opening of the birds oh my god and

and I met Hitchcock again I'd already met him and did and did the monograph for that. Universal paid for that. And then I left. After that, I left New York and went to California. So, okay. So, Corman offers you this writing job. Now, I got to assume, you know, given what you've taken in in your life up to that point, and given that you were intellectually assessing the styles

of all these guys, that once you started to get these opportunities, that there must have been a tremendous amount of pressure by your own brain around how you were going to take this stuff on. Not really. No? The first thing I did was Roger asked me to do a rewrite on that Wild Angels script. It was a terrible script. Right.

And I rewrote about 80% of it. Right. And he loved it. Yeah. Shot it. Yeah. And he kept running out of time, and he wasn't going to go over three weeks,

so he kept saying, he said, I can't do this, we'll do it in the second unit. Yeah. I said, who's going to direct the second unit? He said, I don't know, anybody can direct the second unit. My secretary can direct it. You can direct it. Yeah.

I said, well, I'd like to direct it. Well, all right, we'll see. So I did direct the second unit he said i don't know anybody can direct the second unit my secretary can direct you can direct it yeah i said well i'd like to direct it well now all right we'll see so i did direct the second unit now this is so you're coming into it with no film directing experience and you've got a camera guy and you've got some lighting guys and you got your sound i had the whole crew right but you were but you've been watching how corman was doing oh yeah and i'd watch john ford directing for three weeks since Monument Valley. When you interviewed... When I did a piece on him for Esquire. So what was Ford directing at that time? Cheyenne Autumn.

Huh. And I watched Hawks directing Rio Bravo. Really? Eldorado. Was that Dean? No, Dean is in Rio Bravo, but this was Bob Mitchum and John Wayne. Bob Mitchum. Yeah. John Wayne. Yeah. So you're hanging out with these guys. Yeah was Bob Mitchum and John Wayne. Bob Mitchum. Yeah.

John Wayne. Yeah. So you're hanging out with these guys. Yeah, for a week and a half. And you're like this little kid almost. Well, I was a kid. I was very young. Now, what was your demeanor around these guys?

Were you gracious or annoying? No, they liked me. They liked you? Yeah. Ford liked me. He picked on me all the time, but he liked me. And Mitchum? Jesus Christ, Bogdanovich, is that all you can do is ask questions?

Have you never even heard of the declarative sentence? And what was Mitchum like? Edgy. Yeah. Edgy and kind of outrageous. You know, he kind of shocked me and my wife, ex-wife. And what did your wife do at that time?

Was she in the business? She was, I hired her for that season of Summer Theater that I was the artistic director. Oh, in New York. I hired her

because she's a costume designer. She started as a costume designer. Oh, okay, okay. And I tried to push her into designing sets. She was scared to, but then she did when we finally,

when I started making movies, she did. Oh, really? She did the production design. Now, and John Wayne you spent a lot of time with, right? Later I spent more time with him, but quite a bit on that one week or week and a half we were there, I talked to him quite a bit. And when I think about just a couple of guys you mentioned outside the director, someone like Jerry Lewis and like John Wayne, were challenging kind of characters in a way. Well, they were, but they seemed to like me.

Yeah? Did you find that the creativity, like with someone like Jerry Lewis, who's become sort of this weird caricature of himself, did you find an intelligence there that was surprising? Jerry was very smart. Yeah? Yeah, very bright.

And John? Very sensitive. Yeah. It was very smart. Yeah? Yeah, very bright. And John? Very sensitive.

Yeah. Duke was extremely interesting and like a kid. He was like a huge 10-year-old. He loved making movies. He never went to his trailer. Yeah. He would sit around on the set playing with his six-shooter or playing with the rifle and smoking and talking to the crew and and talk to me a lot like to be out in it yeah he never went to his trailer mitchum was always in his trailer

uh-huh so okay so you you spent all this time and now you're out and you did the you wrote the movie you're doing okay second unit so there's your big break big break yes right and i did the second unit actually i did the fight worked with the first unit because there was some scenes that he had dropped with peter fonda and nancy sinatra the first unit because there were some scenes that he had dropped with Peter Fonda and Nancy Sinatra that I had to get and some scenes with Bruce Dern. So the Corman crew at that time, the actors that were around, because I don't have a sense. So why don't you give me a sense of that operation over there? Well, Roger was down and dirty.

It was do it fast. Right. But he was his own thing, right? Yeah, this picture was made for an American international studio. But I got the feeling that it was some sort of weird, almost like shadow studio system over there, that he had a crew of actors and a crew of shooters that he used always,

because he was making how many movies a year? Well, he made quite a few. Right. He produced quite a few and directed. Uh-huh. So it must have been sort of a lively place was very lively yeah and uh i went i shot the stuff and he called me in his office when he says the editor was monty hellman and he became a director roger calls me into his office says monty says your stuff doesn't cut i said what do you

mean it doesn't cut yeah he said it doesn't cut cut. I said, well, we probably cut it wrong. He said, well, go down and look at it. So I looked at it. I said, it's cut wrong. So I said to Roger, it's cut wrong. He said, well, cut it yourself then. I said, well, I don't know how to cut. He said, don't you know how to use a machine? I said, no. He said, well, go downstairs. Dennis will show you. The editing machine, the editing thing. Yeah, that was how I learned to edit. Just start doing it. That was Roger.

He'd throw you in the ocean and say, swim. If you just didn't swim, you'd drown. That was it. How long did you spend over there? Did you spend a lot of time at Corman's operation? Oh, I worked on this movie for 22 weeks. And did everything that you could possibly do. Looked for locations, rewrote the script, directed the first and second year.

So it's sort of your movie. Well, I had a lot to do with it. And it was the most successful movie in Roger's career. Really? Huge hit. What was the title of it? The Wild Angels. And it actually was the first successful off-Hollywood movie before Bonnie and Clyde. It was sort of the beginning of the new Hollywood in a way because it was a very counterculture movie.

It wasn't a great movie. Right. It was a very counterculture and it was very successful. Who else did you meet when you were there during that 22 weeks? Who was coming through? Was Nicholson around? Was De Niro around? I met Jack, but not then.

I met him later. Yeah. He worked with Roger. Anyway, the picture was quite a a big success uh-huh and then he felt that I had had something to do with that so he offered me a movie to direct myself with your name on it yeah with my name on that was targets targets uh-huh that began with him saying Boris Karloff owes me two days work. I said, okay. And this is like Boris Karloff at 70, right?

79. He owes him two days work. And he says, now here's what I want you to do. I want you to shoot 20 minutes with Karloff in two days. You can do that.

I've shot whole pictures in two days. Right. He says, and. I've shot whole pictures in two days. Right. He says, then I want you to get a bunch of other actors and shoot 20 minutes with them.

So now I've got 40 minutes. And the movie was about a psychopathic sniper, right? Well, that wasn't. It wasn't anything. All it was was... Where was the script? There was no script.

What does that mean? He basically was telling me how he wanted me to make a movie. Okay. Shoot Roger... Karloff. Karloff for two days,

get 20 minutes. Right. Shoot, use 20 minutes of footage from another picture that he'd made called The Terror with Boris Karloff

and Jack Nicholson, as a matter of fact. Use 20 minutes of footage from that. that he'd made called The Terror with Boris Karloff and Jack Nicholson, as a matter of fact. Used 20 minutes of footage from that. Yeah. And now I've got 40 minutes of Karloff. Doing what? Exactly. I don't know. And then you shoot with some other actors for 10 days and 40 minutes.

And now I have a new 80-minute Karloff picture. Will you do it? I said, sure. 80-minute Karloff picture. Will you do it? I said, sure. So we spent, Polly and I spent some time trying to figure out

what the fuck to do with Boris Karloff in two days. What was he like? I hadn't met him yet. He was in London. Right. He was in England. Well, when I was in New York,

just recently before that, Harold Hayes, the editor of Esquire, had said to me, you know you, the editor of Esquire, had said to me, you know, you ought to make a movie, buddy, about that guy in Texas who shot all those people, Charles Whitman. At the college?

He went up to the University of Texas tower and shot about 30 people. It was one of the first of those kind of incidents which had proliferated since then. And I said, I'm not going to make a movie about that. And then we were working with Karloff. We were trying to figure out what the hell to do with Karloff. We couldn't imagine him being a heavy.

He was too old. And that kind of Victorian horror didn't seem to be very horrible anymore. And we ran the Terra. A terrible movie. And I was shaving one morning, trying to figure out what the hell to do with this thing. And I was shaving

and I thought to myself, I know what I'll do. We'll begin that picture with the end of the terror and the lights will come up in a projection room and Boris will be sitting there next to Roger

and he'll turn to Roger and say, that is unquestionably one of the worst films ever made. That's the scene you were going to shoot with Boris.

I made a joke for myself. Right. And I said, wait a second, that's not a bad idea. I made a joke for myself. Right. And I said, wait a second. That's not a bad idea. If he's an actor in a movie, we don't have to justify that material. Right. Okay.

So it was your way of getting around. Getting around. Yeah. He's an actor. Yeah. And then we thought, if he's an actor and he wants to quit acting because his kind of horror isn't horrible anymore. Right.

What is horrible is this guy in Texas who shot 30 people. That's modern horror. So we said, that's the script. So we wrote a script cross-cutting between these two. One wants to retire, the other one is on a rampage. Roger Redd said, this is a brilliant script, best script I've ever had to produce, but you can't possibly shoot all that stuff with Karloff in two days, so you'll have to rewrite it. I said, Roger, you just said it was the best script.

Anyway, finally, we got Karloff for five days. Oh, he liked it? Paid the extra five. He liked it? Boris loved the script. Yeah. And Roger liked it and paid the extra few bucks. Okay.

For three more days. We still had to shoot Boris in five days half the script in five days and he was 79 79 he was great he liked me he didn't like roger at all but um he liked me and we got along very well and he liked the script uh-huh and we shot the whole picture in 23 days and that was your first that was my first film and how'd'd that do? Not well. What happened was I didn't want American International to release it. So I had a friend of mine, actually Jerry Lewis's secretary, Carol Saraceno. She had been Jerry's secretary. She was now working for Bob Evans, who was the head of the studio at Paramount.

Right. Already? Yeah. In the late 60s? Mid 60s? This is 67, 67, 68. So he'd just gotten a job Paramount. Right. Already? Yeah. In the late 60s? Mid 60s? This is 67, 67, 68. So he'd just gotten a job? Recently.

Mm-hmm. And I said to Carol, can you get Evans to see my picture? And she said, I don't know, I'll try. I get a phone call a couple of weeks later from Bob Evans. He says, you know, you ruined my evening last night. I said, what do you mean? He said, I wanted to, Carol's been bugging me to look look at your movie I thought I'd look at a reel and go to dinner I couldn't turn the fucking thing off we want to buy it yeah and that's what happened and that was

the beginning of your relationship with Bob Evans Bob Evans signed a seven picture deal seven picture deal yeah and um they didn't use me on any of them and you you weren't 30 yet? How old was I? No, I wasn't 30 yet. In 1968, I was 28. Well, can we speak to that for a minute about what you said, is that the first Corman film that you were involved with was really the turning of the tide in terms of the studio system, their inability to see what the new market was.

And I don't know that Corman was necessarily on the pulse of that, but certainly he was. Yeah, he did the trip after that. Okay. So that was the beginning of their slipping and you guys finding your way in. It was the new Hollywood beginning. But it happened sort of in a weird way,

that they had lost traction, right? Was it a natural evolution? No, it was all kind of coincidental. Oh, it was. I think. Yeah, that Bob Evans got that job and that he was... Yeah, Bob was very bright and sort of an old-fashioned kind of studio head, actually.

And things were interesting at that period. And when did you start finding or meeting these other guys that were involved in that? Around that time. Friedkin. Who were your contemporaries that you were close with? None of them. I didn't get along with any of them.

Why? I liked older people. I liked Cary Grant. I didn't want to spend time with Jack. Because you had a respect for their work. I like what they did, yeah. I wasn't friendly with any of those directors, actually. But you sort of lumped in with them.

I met them. Yeah. And I didn't particularly get along with them. Were they friends? Were you an outsider? Kind of. Uh-huh. I didn't hang around with those guys.

Why, because they were living it up? No, it just wasn't my thing. I don't know. I don't know. It's weird. Yeah? It's weird. You didn't like to party?

No, I wasn't a party. In fact, what happened was then, Targets opened the door to a lot of things. It got pretty good reviews. The Times reviewed it twice, the New York Times. And we showed it to a producer named Bert Schneider, It got pretty good reviews. The Times reviewed it twice, the New York Times. And we showed it to a producer named Bert Schneider, who was the head of a company called BBS,

which was Bob Rafelson was the director, who had made Five Easy Pieces. Yeah, yeah, it was great. And Steve Blauner and Bert Schneider. Did you get along with Ray Fulton? Yeah, I did very much. Is he still around? Yeah, he lives in Aspen now.

So we showed Bert Schneider at Scene Targets, and he says to me, if you ever have a picture you want to make, bring it to us, we'd like to work with you. Okay. So I, through a series of odd coincidences, I read a book called The Last Picture Show by Larry McMurtry.

Yeah. And I said, I'd like to make this. And I called Bert Schneider and said, I'd like to make The Last Picture Show. Yeah. And here's the book. I mean, he said, well, send me the book. I said, why don't you buy it?

Right. Yeah. And he bought it and read it and said, we'd like to make it. Right. And so I did. And now now what okay so let's talk it was the that was then and that's history that's history that made me a star it did make you a star and they you know it was a at that time it was provocative decision to shoot in black and white very yeah and i imagine you had a fight for that well that's a funny story you want to hear hear it? Yeah, sure. That's why you're here.

I was talking to Orson Welles, who I'd gotten to know. After seven years, he called me suddenly. After the retrospective? Yes, seven years after the retrospective. By now, I had made targets, and I was married, and I had a daughter. We had another one after that. And Orson calls me and says,eter mcdonald said yes he said this is orson wells i can't tell you how long i wanted to meet you i said that's my line he said

i said why would you want to meet me he said because you have written the truest words ever published about me pause in english and and I said, really? He says, what are you doing tomorrow? You want to meet me at the pole lounge? And I said, sure. And that's how we met. So I got to know him. Where was he at then?

I mean, what was his... He was doing Dean Martin's show and tonight's show. So he'd become sort of a clown. Well, you know, he's kidding around a lot. And it kept him going. And he had made the trial. show and so he'd become a sort of a clown well you know he's kidding around a lot and it was kept him going and he made he had made the trial and had made chimes at midnight it's a falstaff movie just before i met him which i loved um but when you say it was keeping him going i mean this

guy was a genius had hollywood abandoned him oh sure yeah he couldn't get a job for what reason he never had a hit picture that's basically what it was all about anyway um so i'm sitting with orson at breakfast and i said i'd like to in this film i'm making i'd like to get that depth of feel that you got with... Tolan? With Citizen Kane and Touch of Evil. Who was that? Was that Tolan? It was Greg Tolan, yeah.

And he said, you'll never get it in color. I said, well, I think the film has gotten faster now. Maybe you'll never get it in color. I said, what do I do then? You shoot it in black and white. I said, well, I'd love to shoot it in black and white, but I don't think they'll let me. Have you asked?

No, I haven't. Well, why don't you ask? You know what I say about black and white, don't you? Know what? It's the actor's friend. Why do you say that, Orson? Because every performance looks better in black and white. Name me a great performance in color.

Yeah. I wasn't going to argue with him. So I went to Bert Schneider, and I said, I'd like to shoot it in black and white. He says, why? I said, well, I almost said that. I said, I think we can get the period flavor quicker, and I think the performances will look better.

And he got back to me look better. And he said, and he got back to me a week later, he said, okay, go ahead. A couple of years later, I asked him, how come you let me do it so easily?

He said, I thought it would be a novelty. He was right. Was it cheaper? Marginally. Right. Didn't make much difference. It was a novelty.

It demanded attention. Yeah. So that was a big hit, and attention. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So that was a big hit, and then... And that was the first movie for, what, Jeff Bridges, maybe? The first time he got nominated for an Oscar.

And what, Timothy Bottoms, was it? Yeah, Tim Bottoms. Civil Shepard, of course, of course, and what, and...

Of course, won the Oscar, Ben Johnson. Ben Johnson. We got eight nominations. You were nominated for director? And script. And you're not even 30.

Was I 30? That was 1971. I was, yeah, I was 31, 32. So this is mind-blowing. This is like, this is a huge deal. Huge deal, yeah. I mean, unbelievable. It also got great reviews.

I mean, we got- It's a great movie. I mean, you know that. Newsweek said it was the best film by a young American director since Citizen Kane. Oh, my God. Did Orson call you? Yeah, he sent me a telegram. It said, reading your notices is like opening presents for Christmas.

Oh, shit. That's nice. Sweet, isn't it? Yeah. Did he see it? Yeah, he saw it. He said, that's not the script I read. He didn't like the script. it he said that's not the script i read he didn't like the script he said that's not the script i read i said yes it is he said no it isn't you transformed

it did you ever think about using him as an actor oh yeah we almost did nickelodeon together he didn't what happened i don't know yeah it just didn't work out the studio didn't want to pay him his money and he got pissed off, and it didn't work out. So after Last Picture Show, what was the pressure on you now that you were the new kid in town? No, what happened was, Mark, it wasn't like that. What happened was I was at... Did it make money?

Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah, a lot of money. The picture only cost $1.3 million, and it made, I think, 30 million or something. Uh-huh. It did very well. The picture was barely, not even finished,

not quite completely finished. Yeah. And I get a call from my agent, and he says, Steve McQueen's looking for a director to do this new movie, The Getaway. And we'd like Steve to see The Last Picture Show. So Steve comes in, runs The Last Picture Show, comes out of it, and he comes over to me and says,

you're a filmmaker, man. I'm just an actor. You're a filmmaker. I want to work with you. And they hired me. Good guy? He was very nice to me. We started to work on The Getaway with Walter Hill was going to write it. At that point, I started to work on the script with Walter,

and I get another call from an agent in my agency. He says, Barbara Streisand wants to see the picture. She heard McQueen is hiring her. Last picture show. Wants to see last picture show. She's supposed to do a picture at Warner's, and they'd like you to direct it, but she wants to see the picture first. So she sees the picture.

She loves it. And she says, I want to do a picture with you. And I said, well, I don't like that script that they've sent me. Which one was it? It was called A Glimpse of Tiger.

It never was made. And I said, I just don't like it much. And she said, well, I want to do a drama with you. I said, well, I just did a drama. I want to do a comedy. She said, I just did a comedy.

I said, well. But Getaway wasn't a comedy. No, but she wasn't going to be in that. No, right, I just did a drama. I want to do a comedy. She said, I just did a comedy. I said, well. The Getaway wasn't a comedy. No, but she wasn't going to be in that. No, right. It's a separate movie. Right. But I was just working

on the script of The Getaway. Okay. I never did make that film, by the way. Who shot it? Was it Peckinpah? Peckinpah. Okay.

The reason, well, that's another long story. Anyway, so I go to John. John Calley was the head of Warner Brothers. Yeah. Very nice guy. I had met him before. And he calls me into his was the head of Warner Brothers. Yeah. Very nice guy. I had met him before.

And he calls me into his office and he says, Peter, Barbara really wants to make a picture with you. Right. I said, but John, I don't like that script. He says, well, let me put it this way. If you had to do a picture with Barbara Streisand, what would you do? Yeah.

I said, well, I'd do kind of a screwball comedy, you know, a daffy dame, square professor, you know, like bringing up baby. Yeah. Do it. Really? He said, yeah. Who would you get to write it? I said, well, I worked at Esquire with Benton and Newman,

and he said, fine, use them. They just did something for us. Can I produce it? Yeah. So I walked out of the office with this idea, producing and directing Barbra Streisand's next picture we were in the middle of shooting when picture show opened they wanted to open the New York Film Festival with the last picture show and yeah I couldn't get there for

the Friday night so they moved it to the second night because I was shooting they moved it to the second night because I was shooting. They moved it to the second night. Shooting what? What's Up Doc. What's Up Doc. So that's the one you did with Streisand. That's right. Oh, so they moved the premiere? They moved the screening at the New York Film Festival.

That's an interesting decision, right? So you're like, you know, the last picture show was something that sort of honored. Hadn't even opened. Right. When I was in the sort of honored. Hadn't even opened. Right. When I was in the midst of directing What's Up Doc. In fact, when What's Up Doc opened in March of 72, last picture show was still playing in first run. So I had two pictures in the top ten variety for about six months.

It's interesting, though, to me that What's Up Doc is almost a throwback. Well, it's a screwball comedy. Right. Yeah. Because when I think about The Last Picture Show, it's almost an art film. Well, it was kind of an art film. But you just wanted to do a screwball comedy.

You just saw her in it. Well, I thought, I've done that. Might as well do something different. And it killed. It was great, right? It was it was great right made a lot of money for both of them made him a star right well ryan was a star he already was a bigger star from what was he a star love story no yeah oh it was love story yeah all right so then all right well it became barbara streisand's most successful film in her career except for stars born oh yeah more

successful than Funny Girl. And now, how's your personal life at this point? Is that starting to come unglued? Oh, well, that came unglued during the last picture show because I fell in love with Sybil. Yeah. And she fell in love with me. Oh, boy.

And I was married, and I had two kids. She was something, huh? She was something. Are you guys friends? Yeah. Really? Yeah, we talk all the time. That's an amazing feat.

Well, yeah, but she's a good girl. I love her. And then what happens, man? What made you do, like, what? Well, then I was going to, what I was going to do was a Western. Yeah. With Larry McMurtry. I said to Larry, let's do a Western.

Yeah. He said, well, who's going to be in it? I said, John Wayne, Jimmy Stewart, Henry Fonda. All the guys. Sybil Shepard, the Clancy brothers. Remember them? Ben Johnson, Cloris Leachman, Ellen Mercy. He said, Jesus Christ.

He said, what kind of Western do you want to write? I said, a Trek. They start somewhere, they go somewhere. Larry, I knew, had Western stuff in him. He hadn't written a Western yet. I knew had Western stuff in him. He hadn't written a Western yet. And he wrote 350 pages of screenplay.

And I rewrote them and cut it down to about 150 pages. And we offered it. We gave it to the actors. Fonda said, okay, he'll do it in a second. Jimmy said, yeah, well, I'll do it. But why do I let the horses go? I said, well, we're going to shore that up, make that clearer, Jimmy. All right.

And then Duke turned it down. Duke said, well, Pete, it's kind of an end of the West Western, and I'm not ready to hang up the spurs yet. But you don't die in the picture, Duke. He said, no, but everybody else does. So he turned it down. So I said, I'm not going to make this without John Wayne. So I said to Larry, why don't you write it as a novel? 13 years later, he wrote Lonesome Dove and won the Pulitzer Prize. It's based on my script. He also bought the script from Warner Brothers for $85,000. What was it called? The script?

from Warner Brothers for $85,000. What was it called? The script? Streets of Laredo, which was the sequel that he wrote to Lonesome Dove. He called it Streets of Laredo. Anyway. Great story.

Yeah. So you didn't do that. So you did Last Picture Show, What's Up Doc, and the third movie. Well, what happened was I turned, Paramount came to me and said, would you do this book called Addie Prey? Yeah.

And I read the screenplay that Alvin Sargent wrote. I said, it's good, but I'm doing a Western. Then when the Western fell apart, they still were there wanting me to do this Addie Prey, which was about a con man and his little girl. But Westerns were dying at that point, weren't they? They weren't doing too well. They were kind of on the way out. But Wayne was still doing Westerns that were successful. point, weren't they? They weren't doing too well. They were kind of on the way out. Right.

But Wayne was still doing Westerns that were successful. Rooster Cogburn? Yeah, he offered me that. So I read Addie Pray, and I said, okay, I'll do it, but it needs a rewrite. Yeah. And I worked with Alvin Sargent. We did a rewrite, and I was looking through songs of the period because it was 1935

I always look at what was the hit songs of that period and I come across a song called It's Only a Paper Moon yeah

and I thought Paper Moon that's good title yeah so I take it to Paramount and I said

I'd like to call it Paper Moon and they said what the hell are you talking about yeah I said well I don't like Addy Prey it sounds like a snake

they said well it was a best selling book yeah I said well how many copies is it sold in hardcover and they said 100,000 right I said well jeez

if we get 100,000 people to see the movie we're really going to have a big hit alright Peter look we don't want to have an argument with you we're not going to change

the title right now. Yeah. Make the picture. Yeah. So I called Orson. He was in Rome cutting a picture. Right. And I called him up.

I said, Orson, can you talk a minute? He says, no, I'm busy. What do you want? I said, well, just tell me what you think of this title. Paper Moon. It was a short pause and he says that title is so good you don't even need to make the picture just release the title

he heard the selling in your voice he liked it it was a good title it turned out to be a good title I called up Alvin Sargent the writer and I said Al Alvin, remember those? We've got a carousel. We've got a carnival scene in the picture already.

Remember those cardboard moons that people used to sit in and take pictures? Yeah. I said, let's put a scene like that in the picture where Tatum wants to go sit in the moon and he doesn't want to go or whatever. He said, why are we doing this? He said, so we can call the fucking thing

Paper Moon and nobody will say why. And that was that. That was a big hit too. Oscar winner. She won the Oscar at the age of 10. I remember seeing that movie

when I was a kid and I was like, Jesus Christ, this is the greatest movie. She was amazing. She was amazing, yeah. You still friends with her? Yeah.

Really? She's in my new picture. And the one that's coming out now, she's funny that way. A was amazing, yeah. You still friends with her? Yeah. Really? She's in my new picture. And the one that's coming out now, she's funny that way. She plays a bit. Oh, yeah? She just does a bit, just a cameo. That's nice. It's a nice sort of loyalty thing.

Yeah, when Sybil did that, too. She was in it, too? She was in it, too, briefly. And Richard Lewis and Michael Shannon, they all did bits. So you did, okay, so then you did those three movies, which were huge. Yeah. And then the tides turned a little? Well, then I made three that weren't successful. Happens. For various reasons. I made Daisy Miller with Sybil, which the New Yorker just wrote a piece

about it recently in which they said, it's very rare for a great book to be made into a great movie, but Bogdanovich did it with Daisy Miller, which was very nice rare for a great book to be made into a great movie but bogdanovich did it with daisy miller which was very nice of the new yorker to say that it got good reviews but it was way ahead of the curve on those kind of films merchant ivory hadn't done any yet so does it fare well no i mean no no it got mixed reviews but i mean in in in retrospect, I won Best Director at Brussels. I'm not sure I should have made it. I like the picture.

It's a good picture. Sybil is very good in it, and it's very faithful to the book. So as a director, there seems to be some level of, like, it's a unique position to be a director. Do you think that your experience in spending time with Orson Welles and watching Howard Hawks and watching John Ford and having these experiences with Odets and everything gave you a certain amount of confidence?

Oh, yeah. Because, like, the fact that you were detached from the rest of the crew, from Coppola and those guys who were your contemporaries, and obviously we were all competing on some level. On some level. But it seems to me that you sort of take it, the way you talk about a picture of failing or not failing,

is that something you had calm about in the moment, or is this something that you're able to do now? Able to do now. Okay. We made a musical that was completely screwed up, called it Long Last Love, a whole made a musical that was completely screwed up. Called it Long Last Love, a whole poor musical

which was screwed up. Why would you choose to do that in 1975? I felt like doing a musical. Set in the 30s and I thought it'd be fun. Uh-huh.

And it was pretty good, but it wasn't good enough. And we had a couple of bad previews, and then I recut the picture and then didn't preview it. And we were being rushed to open at the Radio City Music Hall, and the worst possible cut opened. We got terrible reviews, and the picture died, and I recut it and thought it was somewhat better,

but I just said forget this. Do you ever think in retrospect that your nostalgia might have fucked you a little? Maybe. I don't know. I think it was just I didn't get it right.

You know, musicals are hard to make. Well, yeah, but by that point they were done. Well, yeah. But I didn't notice because I like musical you wanted to do it I wanted to do it and we did it live too like they didn't lay in Miserable uh-huh anyway there's a funny story to that which is years later and 30 years later yeah 25 years later not about three four years ago somebody calls me and says you know at long last love is streaming on netflix i said really so i

go to netflix i look at it i'm watching it i'm saying wait a second this is not my cut really that scene i cut that scene why is it here, it's good. Why did I cut it? And then another scene comes up and I say, wait a second, I cut that scene too and they put it back.

Who the fuck made this cut? Yeah. Found out that the head of Fox editorial, a guy named Jim Blakely who had died

two years before this event, had recut the picture himself. Uh-huh. And it was quite close to my original preview cut, but it was different. He kept scenes that I'd cut.

He cut scenes that I'd... And he did a brilliant job. And it was so good that we showed it down in Temecula when they gave me an award. People loved it. And Fox had a screening, and now they put it out on Blu-ray. So that was that cut so that was that cut

that was that cut that Jim Blakely did I owe him a great favor he got it right uh huh then I did Nickelodeon which I had a lot of problems with the studio

because I wanted to do it in black and white and they wouldn't let me do it in black and white even though I had two hits in black and white um the head of the studio

you would think a movie with that title that makes the most sense to do in Blackburn I know right so I didn't the picture did alright

but I wasn't happy about it then I took three years off and went around the world twice with Sybil and finally had a good time we had a good time we had a great time

and decided to do something different and I did a movie called Saint Jack which won the Critics Prize at Venice decided to do something different. And I did a movie called St. Jack, which won the Critics' Prize at Venice, and Ben Gazzara won Best Actor and so on.

And it was a modest success. I particularly made it for Roger Corman because I wanted to use Ben Gazzara, and the studio said, no, we'll do it with you, but we want Paul Newman or Warren Beatty or something I said no I want to do with again Ben Gazzara mm-hmm so I made it for Roger for a million dollars so he produced it he put his name on it okay up the money uh-huh and I like that picture it's sort of a cult picture and then I made they all laughed which was

my very personal film to me with with Audrey Hepburn and Ben Gazzara. And I fell in love with Dorothy Stratton, and she was murdered. And that fucked me up for quite a few years. Yeah, I can't even imagine. How many years? I didn't make a movie for... I didn't have a movie released for five years. I was writing, I wrote a book about her called The Killing of the Unicorn.

Dorothy Stratton, 1960, 1980. How long were you in love with her before that happened? How long did the relationship go on for? We actually knew each other for about a year, but we had a thing going sort of for about 10 months. And then it happened. So you knew the guy? No, I never met him. No?

No. He didn't. The murder wasn't mainly because he was estranged from her because of me. Yeah. It was much more complicated than that. It had a lot to do with playboy and i don't want to go into it now but uh it was not a cut and dry thing where he's jealous because right it wasn't that at all it wasn't that so how did you feel about the film

star 80 oh it was a piece of shit it was completely inaccurate on every level and bob fossy i had helped bob Fosse when he made Lenny because I helped him with the black and white. And he bought the rights to a three-part article about the murder, which was published in the Village Voice, I think. And it won the Pulitzer Prize or something. How was that article? Not right.

Nobody knew what Dorothy was like. They all wrote about her like she was some blonde bimbo. They had no idea what she was like. She was extremely smart and very, very sensitive and brilliant. Fossey bought the rights, and I called him and I said, Bob, why are you making a picture and he said well we think it's a good story

I said well you don't know the story I don't know the story so how the fuck could you know the story well we think we do know the story I said well Bob

whatever you want to do is up to you of course but all I can say is if I was if it happened to you I wouldn't make a picture about it. He made the picture.

It was a complete flop. And it was his last picture. Killed him. It wasn't a good picture. It wasn't anything like what she was like. I never knew him. Did that phone call end with fuck you? No, just goodbye.

I never spoke to him again. I had to see Star 80 because the family was thinking of suing him, suing the studio, and we did. We sued, and they paid off $100,000, and they cut some scenes out. No shit. That were just bullshit. And then you got involved with her sister.

Yeah, some years later. Because Dorothy introduced me to her when she was a kid eleven and a half twelve or something and then of course the murder brought our families

very close and then I Louise and I got to be lovers when she was you know

about eighteen or something and this movie that you have out now you wrote with her yeah that's something we were married for fifteen years and then she wanted to get divorced she wanted to do She was about 18 or something. And this movie that you have out now, you wrote with her? Yeah. That's something. We were married for 15 years, and then she wanted to get divorced.

She wanted to do some stuff. Yeah. And I loved her, so I did whatever she wanted. And we're very close. Still, obviously, you wrote the film together. Very close. We wrote the film together. And we wrote the film together back in around 2000. I was wondering about that.

But we're very close. We see each other all the time. In fact, when I was living out here recently, I stayed at her apartment. I can't even imagine how devastating that all must have been, how chaotic. I can't even imagine it. It was a terrible mark.

And how the hell could you work, right? Well, I didn't even imagine it it was terrible Mark and how the hell could you work right well I didn't want to work I thought I would never make another picture really too heartbroken yeah it was just like tragic

who gives a shit about pictures and then that whole thing with like just the nature of the scene you know that side of Hollywood

you know like when you talk about you know going back to the big knife and then sort of living, because that seems to me that that story was an intimate story to you, but for the vultures, it was a big story.

It was sort of like a show business tabloid horror show. Oh, yeah. And you're the guy who has no voice in it. Not really. That's fucking devastating. Yeah, it was pretty bad.

It was the worst part of my life. And what did you come back with? When did you finally start working again? Well, I was broke. Because I bought back the rights to They All Laugh, the picture that Dorothy and I and Audrey Hepburn did. It was a big cast, right? It was Audrey Hepburn, John Ritter, Ben Gazzara, Dorothy.

And that was a screwball comedy? It was kind of a bittersweet romantic comedy. Okay. It was funny and also sort of bittersweet. I thought it was the best film I'd made up to that point. I still think it's my best film. Really? Well, it's my favorite film anyway.

I don't know. I've got to go back and watch it again. I remember seeing it, but I think I was young. What was that, like 81, 82? 81, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I just graduated maybe high school. Oh, it's a good picture.

Wes Anderson and Noah Baumbach and Quentin Tarantino loved that movie. Oh, yeah? Quentin put it on his 10 best list of all time, which I thought was pushing it, but it was very nice. And you worked with him. He used you for voiceovers, right? He did on the Kill Bill picture.

But specifically because he knew that you did that. That I did. I was always the disc jockey in my own pictures. He knew that, so he asked me to come in and do the thing. What happened was Universal offered me a picture after I'd finished writing the book about Dorothy, which took me about three years. They offered me a picture called Mask.

Uh-huh. And it was about a 100-page screenplay, and it covered the last 10 years of this boy's life. And I agreed to do it because I needed the money mm-hmm but there was another reason also which I'll tell you okay that when we were living in New York with making they all laughed and I was basically living with Dorothy she was staying at my suite at the Plaza although she had a suite elsewhere, another hotel, but she stayed with me most of the time.

So you were living the life. We were living together. Right, but having a suite at the Plaza, you were living a Hollywood life. Well, yeah, I had a mansion in Bel Air. Yeah. We used to go to Double Day's Bookshop, which used to close at midnight on Fifth Avenue.

It's gone now. They're all gone. But we used to go down there around 10.30 or something, 11 o'clock at night and get some books. And the only play, the first play that Dorothy had ever seen on Broadway, and the only one she ever did see, was The Elephant Man. With Bowie?

It was before Bowie did it. And I saw it with Bowie, but that was later. Yeah. And she loved it and was very interested in it. And I didn't see it. But we went to Doubleday's, and there was a book about the real Elephant Man. Yeah. Whose name I can't remember.

John Merrick? Merrick. Merrick. Yeah, I think you're right. And she had this book that she was looking through about John Merrick, and I looked over her shoulder, and there were some photographs, and I couldn't look at them. Jesus Christ.

And she was riveted. Yeah. Interesting. And she wanted to buy the book. I said, are you sure you want to buy that? And she says, yes. Very definite. Yeah.

And so we bought the book, and she read it, cover to cover. I never figured out what that was about. And then after she was killed, I went to see The Elephant Man in New York with Bowie, as a matter of fact. And then it sort of started to make sense. The thing was, Dorothy and I would be walking down the street in New York,

and everybody would stop and look at her. Yeah. Dogs stopped. I'm not even exaggerating. Dogs stopped. She was stunning, and she'd also done the Playboy stuff. I'm not even exaggerating. Dogs stopped. She was stunning and she'd also done the Playboy stuff.

Yeah, but it wasn't the Playboy thing. It was just because she... She was stunning. Right. And she was tall and just a knockout. Movies never captured

how she really looked. Yeah. She was better looking than that. And I said, everybody's looking at you, D.R. What is going on here? She said, no, they're looking at you. I said, they're not looking at me. The only reason they's looking at you DR what is going on here she said no they're looking at you I said they're not looking at me

the only reason they're looking at me is to see who you're with and I said would it bother you she said yeah I said why well I don't know I feel weird it's like I've got ice cream on my shirt or something

so it didn't matter why they were looking at her they were just looking at her it was freakish it was freakish. It was freakish to her. Yeah. And so I realized that if you're an outsider, whether you're beautiful or ugly,

whatever sets you apart from everybody else still makes you feel like an outsider in some way. Right, yeah. And so I understood mask and I said, okay, I'll do this for Dorothy.

And we made it. It's a good movie. It was a good movie. It was a better movie when I finished with it than what they released. I had a big fight with them. I sued Universal. Over what? Never was more hated in Hollywood.

Really? Yeah, because what happened was you'll appreciate this Bruce Springsteen had never let anybody use any of his music in a movie uh huh

but I knew him a little bit and he liked and Rocky the boy in mask the real kid yeah had loved the Beatles

and Bruce Springsteen right so I said can we use some of your music in the picture? This was at the time when Born in the USA was the most popular album in history. Yeah. Yeah. And I got to use anything I wanted of Bruce's in the movie except Born to Run.

And I had Promised Land, Badlands, Thunder Road. Yeah. And they were all in the picture. I went to Europe, and they took them out of the picture and replaced them with Bob Seger because they said they couldn't make a deal. They could make a deal, but they didn't want to make a deal. It's a long story.

There was a guy at Universal who had it in for me. Anyway. Yeah? Yeah, he didn't want the picture to be a hit. Where's that guy now? Well, he's not in pictures anymore, but he's still alive, unfortunately. Anyway. Why do you have it in for you?

Well, for two reasons. Yeah. One, he didn't green light the picture. He came into the studio after it was already green lit, so it wasn't his picture. Right. So he's like, fuck that. Let's take that off the docket. Yeah, and what he wanted

was the picture he brought to the studio called Out of Africa to be considered the great film, which it won Best Picture. Sure. It wasn't that good a picture, by the way.

So he diminished my picture as much as he could and i was pissed off and i sued the studio which was about as dumb a thing as you can do as a director you don't sue the studio but i sued the studio over bruce springsteen over springsteen and the cutting because there were three there were two big sequences that weren't in the picture that i thought should have been anyway it was a disaster, and I didn't win, of course. And again, 20 years later, I got Springsteen to let, I said to Bruce, can't we get your music in the picture somehow?

He said, Peter, look, if it has to be for nothing, you can have it for nothing. So there was a new guy at Universal, Ron Meyer, and I said, I can get Springsteen in the movie for nothing. He said, write me a letter. And we got it in the picture, and I recut the picture, put in the two sequences that were missing, and they called it the director's cut, and it's my movie.

It's the movie I made, which wasn't released but is available now. So that's out there. People should know that. Oh, it's there. It's there. Do you feel better about it? Yeah, because it's the picture I made. It's a very good picture. I'm very proud of it. I wasn't that. Oh, it's there. It's there. Directors. You feel better about it? Yeah, because it's the picture I made. It's a very good picture. I'm very proud of it. Yeah.

I wasn't proud of the fucked up version. Right. But it was a very awkward moment for me, Mark. You can imagine everybody saying, oh, I love this picture mask. And I'm saying it, but it's not my picture, not the picture I made. Look at this egotistical bastard. He says he's got a better picture than this. This is great.

Yeah. No, it ain't. What I made was pretty damn good, but this is not as good. Did that fuck you? Did that bite you in the ass? Oh, yeah. Of course. Everything I did bit me in the ass. But you survived, Peter. I'm here.

You survived and you work. I'm still working. What compelled you? I know you did other movies, obviously, and some television. What compelled you to do the Tom Petty documentary? Because people loved that thing. Yeah, I loved it, too. I loved doing it.

Yeah? Well, what happened was this. A guy named George Draculius, who's a record producer, and a friend of mine whom I got friendly with through Wes Anderson, who became friendly with me, too. Do you love his movies? Yeah, I like his movies a lot. You like Noah's movies?

Yeah, very much. And you like Quentin's movies? They movies friends of mine yeah these are your guys the young guys yeah the young guys who else call me pop who else and i call them my sons oh there are other ones no those are the two quentin doesn't call me pop right but those three you like their movies because we started by talking about movies and independent movies and you like those guys yeah i do anybody else oh there's people around yeah sure independent movies, and you like those guys. Yeah, I do. Anybody else? Oh, there's people around. Yeah?

I don't know. You like David O. Russell? Yeah. He makes good movies. Good. I like him personally, too. Yeah, that's good. So Tom Petty, Dracarys.

George Draculius calls me, and he says, Tom Petty wants to do a documentary about the 30 years anniversary, which is coming up, of The Heartbreakers. He wants to know if you'd like to direct it. Great American band. Yeah, exactly. He said, I'd like to know if you'd like to direct it. Really, Tom looked at it.

And I said, why me? And George said, well, I mentioned, he said he wanted a major director and I mentioned you and he said can we get him and I'm asking you if you do it so I said yeah I'm interested let me think about hung up the phone I call Louise Stratton my ex-wife at the time she's already been an ex but I called her I said tell me about Tom Petty is you he a folk singer? She says, no, he's not a folk singer. He's one of the premier rock and roll artists in the country. Great.

One of the best. And I said, oh, really? Well, George just called me and blah, blah, blah. She says, do it, do it, do it, do it. So I went to California, sat down with Tom for four hours. And I said, tell me the story of the heartbreaker. He told me the whole thing. And I said, OK, I'll do it. And how are you going to do it? I said, tell me the story of the heartbreaker. He told me the whole thing and I said, okay, I'll do it.

And how are you going to do it? I said, I'm going to have you tell it. And it took us two years. And we won a Grammy. You know what's exciting about that to me? Is that you coming into that had to sit and listen

to those first five or six records for the first time. Yeah. Those are great, great. I listened to all of them. They were great. He's great. And he's definitely appreciated i love him he's great yeah he's not appreciated enough and i think that's true because you talk about springsteen but fucking petty's right up

there man oh yeah yeah he is he is he and he's he's very unusual and his songs his music is unusual and he's a very very smart guy I love him and you and now you act because like in The Sopranos I was surprised to see you

because I only knew you as this this this intelligent filmmaker and I'm watching The Sopranos I'm like holy shit that's Peter Bogdanovich I didn't know he fucking acted

but now I know you acted a lot originally now do you carry but do you carry anything over from your experience with Stella Adler into when you do that? Oh, sure.

Oh, sure. What was her pitch? What was her angle? Basically, with Stella, I learned the technique of acting. I had instincts as an actor, and I had a talent as an actor, but when you're not inspired, you need to have a technique to fall back on. Yeah. And that's what I learned. And what are the tenets of it? Well, the technique of acting, I mean, it's complicated.

I know. And no one can ever explain it to me. No, because you have to learn how to imagine things. You start out by pretending to unscrew a jar, see something, really see it. Those kind of things. That's the beginning. And then you work up to scene classes and so on and so forth.

But The Sopranos was great fun. Wow. I miss it. Me too. I miss it too. Just working on it? Oh, yeah. It was great to do.

I directed one episode. Which one? It was in the fifth season. It was the one where that teacher has a thing with Carmilla. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then he kind of blows her off. Right. And it's the same episode where Steve Buscemi beats the shit out of that Korean guy who was trying to help him.

Right. That was that episode. Wow. It was a good episode. Great fucking show. It was a great show and you know how I got that? Uh-uh.

Well, in 1993... Yeah. I get a call out of the blue from a guy named David Chase. Yeah. And he says... Genius. Genius. And he says. Genius. Genius.

And he says he was at that time supervising a show called Northern Exposure. And he said, look, he says Orson Welles, who had died about seven years before. But my book of interviews with Orson had come out the year before. And he said, look, we're going to do an episode about orson welles kind of a tribute to orson welles and uh we'd like to know if you come up here to seattle and play yourself and talk about orson we'll write a scene we'll write a script with your mind playing yourself northern exposure northern exposure and i said sure i'd be like to do that. So they wrote a script that was very good. I went up to do it.

It took me a week. That was it. Seven years later, I get a call from David Chase again. He says, I'm doing a second season of a series called The Sopranos. I said, yeah, I heard about it. I haven't seen it, but I hear it's great. He said, well, he said, the therapist, the psychiatrist in the show, played by Lorraine Bracco, is having such difficulty with her client, her patient, Tony Soprano, that she needs to go to a shrink. Would you

be interested in playing the shrink that she goes to? I said, yeah. Well, come down and meet with the writers. So I met with the writers. We talked for about an hour. I went home, and they called me and said, you got the part. And I forgot to say, the second day of shooting Northern Exposure, David calls me up. He says, have you acted before? Yeah. And I said, yeah, I started as an actor when I was 15.

He says, well, I said, why? Am I terrible? He said, no, no, you're good. He says, you got a lot of presence. You should act more. Yeah. And then he calls me seven years later, and gives me this great part's great it's a great part and i love doing it and everybody suddenly said oh he's an actor right let's use peter bogdanovich yeah yeah a lot of parts after that so out of

those guys that you you know get uh you know sort of associated with in the 70s the guys that you weren't necessarily friends with and that were you were all sort of chomping at the bit and hollering at the same time and making great movies, like Friedkin, Coppola, Scorsese, Spielberg, Lucas, Ashby. Do you like their movies? I mean, that's a big question with a lot of guys, but out of any of them, do you respect their work? Some of it, yeah.

You like Friedkin? French Connection? French Connection won over the last picture show best picture okay and he won best director okay and after the oscars he came over to me at the ball and he had the oscar in his hand and he said peter you're gonna win a hundred of these and he put his arms around me hit me in the head with the Oscar and I thought okay Billy fine that's great

don't hit me again but as a film critic do you like Coppola's work the early stuff he's done some good pictures too and Scorsese yeah they've all done

good pictures just I tend to like the older films I go back to those more than I do to them but you know Friedkin and Coppola and I

had a company together for about 30 seconds called the Director's Company. And I put Paper Moon into that deal as a kind of- Through Paramount? Through Paramount to jumpstart the company. It was Paramount's idea to have the company happen at all. And we did it because we were promised that we would go public. Right. And make a lot of money. It never happened. Okay.

But at least you got along with those two. I got along with them, yeah. Yeah. But like you go back to The Searchers. Yeah. And watch that sometimes. Oh, yeah. I find that like that out of a lot of the movies.

And I don't come to it in the same way you do. But like that movie I go back to a lot. Oh, it's a great film. And Rio Bravo I go back to a lot. You do? Yeah. Yeah? And which one of Wells do you go back to?

Well, I like Chimes at Midnight, and I like Touch of Evil. I like all his pictures. But I remember I said to him when I first met him, I said, you know, there's only one picture of yours I don't really like. Which one? Yeah. The Trial. I don't either. And I thought, wow, we're really close. Six months later, I made some kind of disparaging remark about the trial. He said, we should stop saying that. I said, I thought you didn't like it. No, I just said that to please you. I have great respect for your opinion. But when you denigrate that, you diminish my

small treasure. Oh, shit, Orson. I'm sorry. That's all right. We can stop. And from then on, he always referred to the trial as that picture you hate. I don't hate it, Orson. It's so funny that as he got older, he was this strangely needy man. Well, he was. It seems like it sounds like he really needed a friend well we we we were there we were i was there for him for a while that's sweet so the new picture you're like it's been a while huh since you well i had a you know people say to me you haven't made a feature you haven't made a picture for what are you doing i said you've been working i have a very i had a very yeah long yeah 12 years i did six years of the sopranos published a 600 page book

on actors called who the hell's in it did two specials for television one about natalie wood one about pete rose directed a five a four-hour documentary on Tom Petty, which won a Grammy, and a two-hour documentary on John Ford that I redid. So I've been very busy. It wasn't like I was trying to make pictures and couldn't succeed. No, but like to write and direct and cast

and to really get in a chair again, it's been a while, right? Yeah, well, an original screen right particularly and how was the experience it was great yeah yeah you like the movie yeah i think it's a funny picture what is it pitch it to me it's it's a screwball comedy okay back to the screwball comedy basically yeah it's a little darker than what's up doc uh-huh it's quite a Doc? Uh-huh. It's quite a bit dark. Uh-huh. Because it's about a, the basic idea was what would happen

if a guy gave an escort whom he had a night with, gave her a lot of money to stop being an escort? Yeah. Which I've done. How'd that work out?

I did that in Singapore when I was making a picture about pimps and hookers and so on. So you got involved with one and you decided to? I did that in Singapore when I was making a picture about pimps and hookers and so on. You got involved with one and you decided to... I got involved with a couple and they were cast in the picture. And they wanted to go home. They had terrible backstory, what had happened to them.

A girl had been fooled by a guy and put her on the street and so on and so forth. And I said, look, I'll give you some extra money. They worked on the picture. I said, well, I'll give you some extra money. They worked on the picture. I said, well, I'll give you some extra money if you promise you'll quit this racket and go home. And they both did. Mary Lim, she went back to Malaysia, and the other girl, whose name I have difficulty remembering now,

went back to Bangkok. They did? Yeah. And they stayed out of the racket? Yeah. That's a good story. Yeah. So that informed this.

So that was the idea sort of behind this picture. Yeah. And Owen Wilson plays a theater director, New York theater, Broadway director. Uh-huh. That's interesting. So you have no knowledge of that, right? Well, no, he doesn't. No, no, you.

You. That's what I'm saying. You kind of, it's a surrogate. Yeah. And he's married and he's about to direct a play on Broadway with his wife,

who's a star and so on. And the night before they arrive, he gets to New York first and he has an escort. And he gives her $30,000 if she promises to stop being an escort she's young played by imogen poots who's absolutely brilliant actress great and um then he has auditions for

this play that he's doing and she comes into audition not knowing that he's the director because he gave a fake name yeah and that's the beginning of all hell breaks loose wow and there's a lot it's a big cast, we've got the six principals. Who are they? Our Owen Wilson plays the director. His wife is played by Catherine Hahn. Oh, she's great. She's just great.

Love her, man. She's great. And the escort is played by Imogen Poots, who's brilliant. And the movie star who is in the play, played by Rhys Ephans. I don't know if you know him. I don't know.

He's Welsh actor. He's brilliant. Oh, wait, I think I do wait i think i do know him i've seen him yeah you've seen him yeah and uh then the the therapist the the therapist of the escort yeah he's played by jennifer aniston oh great and it's a it's a pisser because jennifer's never played anything like this oh she plays the yes she plays the therapist from hell. And she wanted to play it. I asked her to play the wife. She said, no, I want to play the therapist. Oh, that's great.

And she did a great job. And Will Forte's in it, too. Oh, he's great. Good cast. I love that guy. He's a great guy. He really is. He plays the playwright.

Oh, that's great. Oh, well, that's exciting, man. Yeah, it's fun. And how are your expectations? Well, you's great. Oh, well, that's exciting, man. Yeah, it's fun. And how are your expectations? Well, you never know. But you're excited, right? Let me put it this way. The first screening of the picture ever,

in fact, it was the first time I saw it all the way through put together, was in Venice at the film festival last year. Not this year, last year. And we had a 10-minute standing ovation. Oh, tremendous. They just loved it. I'm so happy to hear that.

And then we showed it at Palm Springs Festival. They loved it. Every audience we've seen it with laughs about the same. Oh, that must be so fucking exciting for you. Yeah, it's nice. Really. I mean, it's fun. You play a pretty cool character here as a person,

but I've got to assume that that re-entering that particular world of writing and directing and and having that that experience with these great young actors and having that response must have been fucking phenomenal yes it's been great yeah and your your relationship with your kids is good yeah oh yeah my daughter my older daughter just last year directed her first movie really yeah well did play quite well with it is the other one in show business too no she's in brooklyn with two kids and that's a plenty uh-huh but she she she's gonna do some writing i know when she when her kids get a little older uh-huh one is ten and one is four and they take up pretty much all her time uh-huh and where you live in a

good girl. I'm living in L.A. Okay. I'm staying with a friend of mine right now. I have an apartment in New York, but it's sublet, so I can't use it right now. But I'm staying with a friend of mine.

Well, great. I tell you, Peter, it's been great talking to you. Well, it's been great talking to you, Mark. You're a good talker. You? Good interviewer. Well, thank you very much. Really, it was an honor,

and I'm glad we covered so much ground. We covered lot of ground we did great and i appreciate it thank you mark i enjoy talking to mr bogdanovich i get a feeling that he's not always the easiest guy to work with did you get that feeling that there was a lot of wisdom there and a lot of um exciting history and i'm glad i got to talk to him go to wt WTFpod.com for all your WTFpod needs. Get a little JustCoffee.coop if you want. Get on the mailing list. Check my schedule for gigs. Get hooked up with the new Howl app. Do the thing, man. Do the thing. I'm going to play some guitar. Some guy actually doesn't like it at all, but he liked it the other day because there was a story behind it

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