WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 636 - Fred Armisen

Episode Date: September 9, 2015

Fred Armisen sits down with Marc for a surprisingly revealing chat, especially considering how Fred can completely disappear into the many characters he creates. They talk about Fred’s love of music, his desire to take comedy to uncomfortable places, the biggest perk of being on Saturday Night Live, and the one aspect of his life that always feels like chaos. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated

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Lock the gates! Alright, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fuckeneers? What the fucksikins? What the fucking avians? Welcome to the show.

This is WTF. It's my podcast. Thank you for listening. Thank you for being there for me. Today on the show, the elusive, but here you will hear him engaged and clear. Mr. Fred Armisen is here today. Fred is, what is he up to? Oh, he's doing that show with Bill Hader, that documentary now.

It airs Thursday nights on IFC, the network where my show is. I would like to thank the people who came out to see me in Dublin, Ireland, and in London, England. It was in and out, man. It was a quick trip, and right when I was starting to adjust to the eight-hour time difference, I turned around and came back, and now I'm still a little fucked up, but it was worth it because I got to be honest with you and some of you already know this.

I get nervous when I leave the States, not because I'm afraid. I just feel peculiar because I'm an American abroad and I don't feel confident with the strange snack foods and strange driving habits. You you know it's not a side of the road thing well maybe it is but it doesn't matter maybe it's the steering wheel in

the wrong place but it's not the wrong place it's a different place but it's not the place that i'm used to and that makes me nervous and uncomfortable and it makes me assume that these people won't like me or understand me because they don't drive on the same side of the seat that i do which is fucking stupid because people know me there in those places just as they do here so i fly i don't sleep on the plane really because i'm nervous i get to dublin it's early in the morning and i get to the hotel i have not slept so i'm already feeling a little flirby, a little weird, a little tweaked, and I get there, and I go immediately into the restaurant. I stayed at the Westbury Hotel in Dublin, a lovely hotel, and I went in, got the full fucking Irish breakfast, beans, rashers, black pudding, the other pudding, eggs, toast, Irish soda bread. I just did did it I did it all shoved it all in my face went up just

crashed for like three or four hours then I'm told that Richard Thompson who I interviewed last week who I love is playing at the same venue that I'm playing the night after at the Vicar Theater and would I like to go fuck yeah it doesn't matter if only slept two hours in the last 24 and I'm playing the night after at the Vicar Theater. And would I like to go? Fuck yeah. It doesn't matter if I only slept two hours in the last 24 and I'm out of my fucking mind. And then there's always part of me like, I just talked to that dude. But is he going to know me? Are we like, hey, what's going on? The guy, Bryn, who runs the venue. I say, you think you'd get me backstage?

He's like, what are you talking about? Yes. I mean, you're performing here tomorrow. Because I interviewed Richard. I wonder if we can hang out or I could say hi. So I walk backstage. I see Richard. He's like, oh, how are you, Mark?

And I'm like, what's up, Richard? He's like, that's your guitar. He goes, yeah, it's one of them. And I'm like, it looks nice. It's telecast. So we talked, man. We talked about five-string tuning. He let me play his guitar a little bit.

We talked about the interview. His daughter and her husband was playing in the rails. They were opening for him. And then out of nowhere, the bass player goes, I know this guy. And I'm like, what? Richard's it's davy farragher who used to hang out with my friend greg over here when he was in cracker now he plays with elvis's band and richard thompson had just uh had just uh hired him on like that day they had barely rehearsed but he's a fucking wizard so i'm hanging out with uh davy and richard and then i go out

into the audience and i'm like tripping because i'm sleepless and i'll tell you man richard thompson's the dude to watch if you're trippy man he's fucking amazing what a wizard and the drummer the fucking drummer jesus i believe his name was uh mich. Just a wizard. The whole thing was fucking outstanding. But then I started to fall asleep standing up. I sat down and I was rocking in my seat and I got up and I almost started falling asleep standing up. So I had to go back to the hotel, crash out, just laid out for a bunch of hours and walked around Dublin. Not the most ethnically diverse city or country necessarily. I don't think it's intentional. It's an island. And I guess that happens. I guess there's not a lot of

people coming in, more people going out. Probably the the Irish are good at dispersing. I'll tell you that right now, man. The clans move around the world. But yeah, but not very diverse. I think I visited the one black area, which is basically just a statue of Phil Linnett downtown. But I walked around. It was beautiful. I love Ireland. I think it's beautiful.

I was nervous about the show, but a local comic, Andrea Farrell, did an amazing job opening for me. Very funny. And the audience was great. The venue was amazing. The vicar was amazing. It was a beautiful night of comedy.

And it was amazing to be in Ireland. And the next day, very early in the morning, got about five hours sleep. Didn't even get to say goodbye to Richard Thompson because I left early. But I think he's probably okay. I flew to London. Immediately, I did a bunch of radio interviews. but I think he's probably okay. I flew to London, did immediately, did a bunch of radio interviews, and then I crashed for like three or four hours,

and I was nervous about London because this is a big room, South Bank Center, but I packed out two shows. I had a great time Thursday. Listen to me. What am I all excited? I got to be honest with you.

The audiences were both, they were great in Dublin and in London, and it was amazing. I went to the Tate fucking gallery and uh I got my mind blown the Tate Modern and I also had some amazing fucking Indian food you ever had a life-changing meal where you're like I'm never going to be the same again I think the place is called Tyab's T-A-Y-Y-A-B-S i it was referred to me by one of the guys who works at the management agency but man i i don't even know sometimes restaurants there's so much heart in it and there's some magical thing that some people can do with spices i just never tasted food like that it was fucking and i can't

even talk about it because i want to move there not to london to the restaurant i'd like to move to the restaurant i had some sort of pumpkin curry and something called dry meat and paratha it was astounding but the take gallery man the take gallery i saw some shit i had i had a pretty amazing experience i love that space at the tape modern but something happened to me saw the agnes martin retrospective beautiful abstract but very grid like organized woman was trying to keep it together by laying it out on the canvas this is where it's held together this is where art makes sense this is where everything is at peace keep it tight brilliant shit them walking around the regular collection they got a room full of Rothkos

but not just Rothkos Rothkos I'd never fucking seen before and I it's not like I've seen every Rothko but I've seen a lot of Rothkos but these and I'm a Rothko fan I don't know where you stand on it these were fucking astounding, these were a bunch of panels. There were about eight or nine, maybe even more. And they were commissioned for the Four Seasons Restaurant in the Seagram Building in Midtown Manhattan. Okay? It's got no connection to the hotel. It's its own restaurant, fancy restaurant.

And apparently, and this is what I learned after the fact, that he reneged on the commission. But my friend Sharon sent me a text after I talked about this. She said that Rothko secretly resolved to create something that will ruin the appetite of every son of a bitch who ever eats in that pretentious dining room. That's a quote that I don't know where she got it. But man, they had these all in one room. They're purple, they're dark, they're late period Rothkos.

They're much different than the earlier ones. They're dimly lit and you sit in that room and you were just immersed in the elevated purple darkness of Mark Rothko's brain. It was one of the most amazing experiences I'd ever had with art. I could not leave the room. I left and I went back to just get into that transcendental doom that these canvases would just bathe you in. It was fucking amazing. So all in all, the experience in Europe was beautiful. Dublin, beautiful city, beautiful people,

saw Richard Thompson play guitar, did some good comedy, ate some good fish. London, beautiful people, awesome shows. Then he was a little bouncy sound-wise, but that's okay. It was okay. We dealt with it. My opener there was Jarleth Regan. He did a great job. I met him in Edinburgh years before when I was unhappy, and he remembered me being unhappy. I was happy that we were both relatively happy and had some amazing Indian food.

Pumpkin curry, never experienced that before. Between the pumpkin curry and being mind-fucked by Mark Rothko's and doing great shows, it was an amazing international experience. Did I mention Fred Armisen is on the show? Well, we're going to talk to him right now. Gets pretty personal.

Brace yourself. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence, It's pretty personal. Brace yourself. know, we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton. The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5 p.m. in Rock City at torontorock.com.

When you had Mike Watt on, that was like my sweet spot. Was that crazy? What a sweet. Yeah. And he kept talking, which was great. That's what he does. Yeah. Going on about the Minuteman. Did you love that crazy? What a sweet. Yeah. And he kept talking, which was great. That's what he does. Yeah. Going on about the Minutemen.

Did you love that band? I loved that band, and I loved Firehose. I love Firehose. I always did. I was in that, whatever that generation would be called, where. Me too. I didn't live in LA, so I missed the original version of the Minutemen. The Minutemen. Me too.

So I was like, okay, well, I know about the Minutemen, but here's Firehose for me. Right. Dave Cross introduced me to Firehose when we were back in Boston. So what was that, like late 80s? Yeah. And I went to see him. Yeah, me too. Yeah.

And because Mike seemed like the sort of leader of the band, that was the entertainment. I was like, I liked watching this band. They were all great. Yeah. All three of them. like the sort of leader of the band that was the entertainment I was like I liked watching this band they were all great yeah all three of them but seeing the bass player as leader

as the general or whatever was I was on board I saw them so many times I was so on board not since Thin Lizzy has the bass player

yeah been those guys have so many records out there I didn't know about is that Thin Lizzy yeah they're reissuing

these records like a shit load of records yeah yeah that was another really anomaly of music just where they're from and the sound the sound i didn't i never was into them like i knew the hits when i was a young really young you know but like uh i'm just starting to get into it i just i'm i'm late to the party with fucking everything but that's what's fun about being alive is being late to the party. Music especially. That's the best thing. Because now you can go backwards.

You don't have to just wait for everything that's coming out. Right. I've been going backwards to Gordon Lightfoot. Really? Yeah. Brand new to me. Or whatever in the last few years. Like if I could read your mind, that stuff.

Which is an incredibly beautiful song. Amazing. And moving. There's no better song than that. Harry Nilsson, you know, a little bit of that. mind, that stuff. Which is an incredibly beautiful song. Amazing. And moving. There's no better song than that. Harry Nilsson, you know, a little bit of that. Yeah, me too. I just went and bought all his fucking records. Yeah, everything.

Like all of them. And also, like where, why wasn't, why didn't I hear these before? Why didn't I know? Yeah. And then did you watch that Harry Nilsson doc? Oh, yeah. That was fucking mind blowing. It's incredible.

Because he lived a long time. Yes, he did. And I didn't know that. I thought, they describe his life so much as a tragedy that my assumption is like, he must have, you know, opied or something. Not the case. The tragedy was he died and lived. Yes.

Yeah. And. That's the worst kind of tragedy. Yeah. With like, a lot of it happens to musicians, man. Yep. They, you know, but he couldn't even go through the paces. It didn't seem, he was so compelled to make original music.

Yeah. But you just see these zombies playing their catalog. Yeah. It's rough, man. It's rough. I don't know what it's like for them. Yeah. I imagine there's like the having to deal with having to make ends meet.

Yep. Sure. Not knowing exactly who you are or where you're going. But that's a tricky thing. I'm still trying to figure out what that world is all about, that circuit. Really? Of music, of people who lived more in the past but still continue to go out and play. You know what I've learned, honestly, by going to a Rolling Stones concert for the first time in 35 years?

They're fucking entertainers. Yes. They like to entertain. Yes. They like when people like their shit. I don't think everyone's driven by that sort of like, God, fuck, why haven't I written a song? They're fucking entertainers. Yes. They like to entertain. Yes. They like when people like their shit. I don't think everyone's driven by that sort of like, God, fuck, why haven't I written a song? Maybe they've written two, but I imagine for somebody like Huey Lewis, who probably doesn't

even need the bread. Right. To go out and play stuff from the sports record. Yeah. To a bunch of people going, yeah. It must be great. Sure. Because all there is is that room.

Yeah. So if there, you know, however many people there and they're into it, it's a really good agreement. They love it and they love to play it.

We're all in good shape. Right. Because I think the Stones is a really good example of that. They can't need the money. No. So they do it because they love it.

Yeah. Right? And that's what they are. Yeah. They're fucking Rolling Stones. Yeah. You know, Charlie Watts is a drummer. That's his job is to be Charlie Watts.

Exactly. And they've kept their office intact. Like Charlie Watts' kit is his kit. Yep. There's nothing else that needs to be. He sets up his own kit. I talked to somebody who saw him do one of his jazz gigs at the Blue Note in New York,

and he got there before, in between bands, and Charlie was setting up his own drums. That's pretty great. That's someone who loves to play. That's great. You're a drum too, right? I'm a drummer. Yeah, you know who I talked to

who gave me a little sort of window into your life? Yeah. Albini. Oh, he is... that's a really great person that's a great person to talk it's like what so he did this he did oh great i haven't put it up yet and he said he used to see you around the music scene yes before you did comedy oh yeah he's a one of you know my. I mean, just from that whole Chicago scene. But where were you born?

Well, I'm originally from New York. New York City? Long Island. Really? So I grew up on Long Island, a little bit in Brazil. I lived in Rio de Janeiro, like second and third. Why? How'd that happen? My dad worked for IBM. So what kind of, how many brothers and sisters you got?

I have a younger sister, but then I have an older half brother who is German. So my father had a son. A marriage before? No, just a relationship. He had a son in East Germany and then he came to the States and then my parents went to school in Mississippi and that's where I was born. They met in Mississippi? Yes. They were both foreign students.

Where are they from? My mom's Venezuelan and my dad's German. Really? Yeah. Have you met your German half brother? Oh, I have. And he's an Armisen? No, Fettig. So he's from his mother's name. And he's raised in what was communist Germany.

Wow. And that's where your father was from, East Germany. Yes. So you grew up with someone who was brought up in communism, basically, give or take. Yeah. So my father luckily left Germany in the early 60s. So he was away from that before He was able to get up. Oh, it didn't go up yet.

This is before the wall went up. Oh. Yes. The in-between time. Yes. Wow. So did he always have a relationship with that other son? Oh, yeah.

Oh, so it's cool. But more pen-pally because you couldn't go in and out that easily. How old were you when you met him? I was a junior in high school or a senior in high school. And that was the first time I'd met him. Really? And there were some similarities. It's was the first time I'd met him. Really? And there were some similarities. It's really, it says a lot about genetics.

Yeah. That, you know, he was into music and he liked a lot of Latin music. It was just very strange, kind of like, we don't really look alike, but it was a good experiment. Huh. Yeah. Did you stay in touch? We stay in touch.

We email each other once in a while. Oh, really? I haven't seen him that much. Bizarre, touch? We stay in touch. We email each other once in a while. Oh, really? I haven't seen him that much. Bizarre, right? That must have been wild. Did you learn about it in junior high or did you always know? It was always in the air. So it's sort of like, hey, there's that brother.

That's your half-brother in Germany. But East Germany was hardcore. That's a hardcore. Communism, I think, it was more German than German. They really did it. East Berlin really did it up with the logos and all that stuff. And I visited East Berlin. Logos, yeah.

Oh, they love it. Well, yeah, it was totalitarian in a way, right? Yeah. And I went when it was, you know, East Berlin. I got this visa to go in and they had so many stamps for the passports. The organization of it worked so well for them. And it was a really gray place. It was just a very, like you could sense the sort of, it was just gray. Control?

A lot of control. Gray place, not great place. No, no, gray. Gray, right. I'm saying gray. Yeah. Just kind of sort of, I would say almost like there's a dullness to it all. Right, right.

All across. Yeah, you just picture people walking with their head down. Yeah, I mean, and they stopped me a lot. I went camping with my brother and there was a lot of like, will you stop? Show me your passport. We know where you're from. They would read my passport back to me. You are Fred Armisen.

You are from, you know, New York. And would read my passport back to me. You are Fred Armisen. You are from New York. Yeah, I'll never forget it. Wow, I wonder what kind of mind fuck that is. Like, we know who you are, Fred Armisen. We know you are from New York. Yeah, super paranoid. But then it all just ended. Right, that must have been a hell of a day.

Yeah. So you grew up with a Venezuelan mom? Yes. Good food german and venezuelan food or what great food no no i don't know why i make that assumption only because i don't know what it is and it seems exotic to me it's just there's a lot of like like chicken and rice and like raisins and like weird you know banana leaf you know a lot of corn meal wrapped stuff so it's fine but i it's not what i would say like hey we had great food i wasn't like oh it wasn't like growing up um you know in an italian family right what part of long island valley stream i don't even know what what does that mean it's like just think picture long island and right outside of like queens new

york all right okay right there and they've worked for IBM. Yeah. My dad worked upstate and I, uh, in, uh, Poughkeepsie or white Plains. Uh-huh. Yeah. He commuted. He commuted. Wow. And then you were in Brazil.

We did two years in Brazil. How old were you? Uh, second and third grade. Oh, so not enough to have fun necessarily. No, but enough to like, you know, brazil and learn what it was like and to hear brazilian music which is still some of my favorite music you know samba music yeah um so and i think the moving around you did a samba character didn't you kind of i've done some brazilian characters and stuff playing music and some bossa nova and stuff so i've done a little bit of it so that was

a good experience i think but at the time i didn't think so because i was a kid right right you just want to be home when you're a kid yeah yeah and your folks are still together they're not together oh when did that happen uh my dad left when i was must have been 20 or so maybe 19 so you're out of the woods you could understand it as a grown-up yes now i can understand it and even then i was um very disconnected from it yeah so i feel bad because i should i can understand it and even then i was um very disconnected from it yeah so i feel bad because i should have been more connected and helpful but i was very hey i'm not in the house anymore so that's your problem yeah whatever you got to do pops yeah yeah so where did you go so after high school where'd you go where'd you move um i was in

i i went to college in new york city where it's the school of visual arts oh yeah and i went a couple years studying what film yeah but i really went to play music you know when when you when'd you start doing that i've been playing music since i was like 10 or something drumming drumming and guitar playing but mostly drumming that's like what i really wanted to do most like like who were your favorite drummers as a kid keith moon um i and as i got older into my pre-teen years alan myers um stewart copeland topper heaton from the clash paul cook and then dave barbarossa from bow wow was i really loved he was all timbales yeah yeah yeah yeah constant like uh very oh yeah but he did use those yeah yeah yeah love those I really loved. It was all timbales. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Constant, like, very... Oh, yeah, but he did use those timbales. Yeah, yeah. Love those. But Keith Moon was definitely, like, I really wanted to eventually become, like, you know, Keith Moon. Just the fact that he was so visual and all that.

And he was great. Out of control. Yeah. Yeah. And you played in bands in high school? Yeah, I played in some hardcore punk bands. That was your love? The hardcore punk?

Yeah. As soon as punk came around for me, and I think, I guess for you too, it's like, you know, I felt a little late. Yeah. You know, like it already happened in England and New York. But to me, as a suburban Long Island kid, it was like, I still wanted to be in London. Like, I lived that whole 1977, even though it was past that. The CBGB stuff and the London stuff.

And then all the London stuff. I wanted to be the Damned and the Clash and all that stuff. And I guess Devo, too. So I just loved all that stuff. And still do. That part has never died in me. And with the bands, did you do the circuit? Did you open for big punk bands?

No, no, no, no. We were just like a local punk hardcore band, me and my friend Kenny Young. Still friends with him? No, he died about a year ago. Oh. Yeah. He had some troubles in his life.

Yeah. And that was a really sad thing because he really represented my high school years to me. Oh, yeah. My best friend from high school died, me. Yeah, my best friend from high school died too. Yeah, it's a hard thing, you know. He never got out of town or? He traveled, but he just had, you know, he had problems. Right, yeah.

Which eventually, I think also though, his death gave him peace. As much of a cliche as that is, I'm very glad that he doesn't, he really lived through hell. He would, Kenny would tell me, he would like laugh and tell me about all the hospitals he'd go in and people trying to get him into rehab. Right. A lot of stuff that was like, it sounds like the worst kind of existence. It's a tough war to lose that addiction thing. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's weird.

When you get our age, you're like, you're 48. Is that what you said? Yeah. Like, I'm 51. You start to see it. People who... I'm having some allergies, by the way. I am not weeping.

Okay. You have cat allergies? Because they don't come out here. I love cats very, very much. But I get allergic sometimes to new cats. Like, if there's a new cat in my life, I get allergic. Well, this shouldn't be too come out here. I love cats very, very much. But I get allergic sometimes to new cats. Like if there's a new cat in my life, I get allergic. Well, this shouldn't be too bad out here. If it gets bad, I can put on that air purifier over there.

No, no, I'm good. Yeah? Yeah. All right, so you didn't make any records or really play? No, no. And it wasn't until I moved to Chicago that I joined a band and we started making more music. But the School for Visual Arts, you wanted to do music, but what did you learn there?

Did you make film? I did a little bit, and I learned about film, but I think the real reason I went was to meet band members. Like, that was like... To go to CVs? Yeah, it was a common knowledge, too. Like, if you want to be in a band,

you go to art school. Like the talking heads? Yeah, it's just like like that's the place or even like i mean so many bands came from that from art school yeah so to me that was like that's that was the place to go so that's why you went yeah yeah and and and you feel you did the whole time you you graduated no i did not graduate i did uh like two and a half years or something and then what made you go to chicago i met um uh this guy named damon who uh i thought looked really cool and was into punk too yeah and i was like let's put a band together so we played a little bit and then he was like i have to go to chicago to go to art school there and i i just followed him i was like let's keep the band going and and I did. And I moved to Chicago.

I was there for quite a long time, like 10 years. And did the relationship with him last? Oh, yeah. I'm still friends with him now. And he's not dead. Oh, good. So we're good friends now. And he does a lot of artwork for Portlandia.

And he is a big figure in my life. So you're in Chicago. And you're playing in what's the band called trench mouth trench mouth yeah oh i've heard of that maybe i've heard of it because of you yeah i'm sure uh you didn't make records or you did we did we toured a lot we toured all the time we toured and we played in europe a little bit and we played how many albums you put out four or five or something really yeah so you were a punk band yeah and and you were a known punk band in in the punk world uh-huh you know and when you

toured did you get to work with other music like did you open for bands you loved and that kind of oh yeah we we you know i met we played with um fugazi a couple of times, the Nation of Ulysses and Candy Machine, a lot of DC bands. And we had a really great time. It was like, that's where I learned about, more about drumming and entertainment and punk and this country, just traveling around, getting to know the Midwest.

And also Damon would play great tapes and stuff in the van. So I got to learn about like dub music and like reggae and stuff and punk. So we were very unsuccessful in many ways. We saw bands sort of zip by us and become very popular. Were you singing or just playing drums? Just playing drums. And talking a lot.

I would talk when, you know. But like a lot, many bands just sort of became more and more famous and we were kind of at the same level for many years. And I think that like, you know, I'm not, I don't look back at the music and think like, oh, we were great. Or like, I don't understand why. I very much understand why we weren't big. And I'm glad, I mean, here I am.

You know, I feel like my life is very good. So those things just led to me being here. No, yeah, absolutely. But like Chicago at that time, having spoken to Steve Albini, it was a very sort of insulated and vibrant and creative punk rock scene. Yeah.

There were studios everywhere, record labels. It was a very like, and really great musicians. Yeah. There were bands like Tortoise and Jesus Lizard, really great musicians.

And Steve, obviously. Yeah. And you were just hanging around and playing? Yeah. Yeah, hanging around and playing. And, you know, I had jobs and stuff, but it was. And you were just hanging around and playing? Yeah. Yeah, hanging around and playing. And, you know, I had jobs and stuff, but it was like a really nice scene.

I really liked it. Like, where'd you work? Oh, my God. In many cafes. Yeah. Many. All over town. Yeah.

Do you know Chicago? A little. When we first walked into your studio here, we were talking a little bit you and I yeah we've known each other a while yeah I was wondering how you um you operate now that your show is so successful uh are you still able to engage with people are you still interested in it yeah yeah well I mean I I look forward to it you know I was talking to somebody else about it that you know for me it's still a a conversation like it be it you know it becomes sort of a a job to a degree but the truth

of matter is it's still me sitting down talking to a guy or a woman about their life or about whatever comes up so there's still that nourishment of that and that has not gotten boring and or i don't look at it as a chore because I'm dictating. The tone of the show sort of can change with any individual. I don't have to do this. Right, that's true. You know what I mean? But some people do have to do things.

No, I mean, look, we put a show up twice a week, but it's my show. I don't have any bosses. It's very free form. So as interested as I am in any individual, that compels the conversation. So it's still like that. I may get nervous about

what the fuck am I going to talk to that guy about. Do you get nervous? Yeah, because I don't always know how it's going to go or where it's going to go or what I want to know or who they really are. You know, you make assumptions about people all the time. And a lot of the people I talk to have public profiles. So I make assumptions that I've decided.

And then, you know, then I find out that I'm wrong most of the time. But I also don't always know what I'm looking for other than a conversation. So it's still compelling in that way. You know, I get very involved in people's emotional narrative. So that's a, that's a, an incredible gift. So in that way, I don't get that tired of it or I don't, you know, the success of it.

Sometimes I'm like, oh, I gotta talk to five people this week. Like if I get five or six people in a week, it's a little taxing. I don't know. I don't know how people who do like, I don't consider this like therapy, but like a therapist who has to like do four or five a day and just sit there and engage. But I think they figure out a way not to engage.

I can't really do that here. I think therapists, if they're kind of been at it long enough, can kind of just fake it. Yeah. No, but now that I'm sitting here, I see that you're into it. Yeah.

And also when I hear the show, I could hear it. But I just didn't know. I was like, you know. Well, you haven't done the show. We did it live once. Right. And you're one of these guys who I don't know that, like there's part of me that's sort of like, well, what is that guy? Where the hell does he come from?

What the hell, you know, what's going on in there? Because I think that, you know, because of somebody who's so gifted at doing characters so thoroughly, there's part of you that's sort of like, what's real Fred? What's that about? What went wrong there? What's he running from? Right? Do you get that a lot? Yeah, I do.

I do. There is a, you know, I've heard that if I'm meeting someone for the first time. So, sure, yeah. Do you feel a distance from yourself? I mean, do you think that you're genuine or do you find that you're sort of darting around emotionally? No, I feel like I'm genuine in my most private moments. By yourself?

when in my most private moments. By yourself? Well, meaning I feel like I have an honest relationship with myself, which is its own feat, you know? Sure. But I think that as I've gone through life, when I get sort of reactions from other people as to the way that I am,

that's when I feel kind of surprised. And I go, oh, okay, I hadn't thought of that or I didn't see things that way. So I think that just kind of like over the years changes little by little, meaning that I'll sort of see things in a different version than i remembered and then go oh okay that you know this is where i made some mistakes or this is where oh i hadn't thought of that before but you're comfortable with

yourself yes i'm comfortable with myself um but i'm always um I still want to get better right personally yeah I'm the evidence to me is that my friends

I feel very I have long relationships with my friends yeah and they make me feel like I'm okay and then I can keep going but

keep going in life yeah because I even though I'm 48 and then I can keep going. Keep going in life? Yeah. Because even though I'm 48, I still feel like I can still try to get better at being a person. But do you get depressed? I don't get depressed. Oh, okay.

I don't know if that's good or bad. Because I'm an optimist and I do feel like i run through life very with the sort of impatience uh-huh just you know clawing away and just like really fighting to get to the next thing uh-huh and that's creatively too creatively yeah i feel like in my work yeah it is where I have the best handle on things. That is the only place

where I, you know, my friends and work where I can do a good job. Well, where did you, when did you first,

like, how did you make a transition? You know, when did you realize that comedy was something that, because I think

the first time I met you really in person, you were doing Saddam Hussein, the guitar Saddam. Oh, okay because I think the first time I met you really in person, you were doing Saddam Hussein, the guitar Saddam. Oh, okay. That was the first time I met you in person. We were on the same show. I had seen you before that. I'd seen you live.

I was at that Largo show where you got into a fight with someone. And I had just moved to LA from Chicago. And that was one of my first experiences. I was alone and I was told hey you've got to go to Largo that's where the scene is happening

that's where interesting comedy is happening and I saw like Ron Lynch and Karen Kilgariff maybe Jimmy Pardo maybe Paul F. Tompkins

but Paul was definitely on that show yeah he was hosting it that night yes and that was the last act

because his stand up he came out and he was like i am uh i am the host because i am the best right right um and then you were last and then you got into that altercation yeah um oh my god and it was a good introduction i was like this is a real scene you know guy because you just got tackled remember it was a weird night because vincent d'onofrio was there for some reason. Oh, that I don't remember. Yeah. And the producer and guitar player for Foreigner, the band was there.

How would I have known that? You wouldn't know that. I knew it, but I didn't know you. And I also didn't know who was who. I was like, here's Mark Maron. I was like, here's another guy. Right. That was all new to me.

And everyone scrambled. Yeah. So you're doing music. I did music. And then I new to me. And everyone scrambled. Yeah. So you're doing music. I did music. And then I went to South by Southwest. I performed at this. I was playing drums for some bands in 1998. Yeah.

What bands? John Lankford, Sally Timms, The Skull Orchard. You were playing drums for all of them? Yeah, they were just like, hey, will you play drums on this one little set that we're doing? It was really easy. But then there were all these like, you know, South by Southwest is like,

it has all those like talks and like sort of symposiums. Back then it was a little smaller, I think. Yeah, but it was still an event. Yeah. And I was so, I think, bitter about where I was in music. You were. Yeah. You know, I was sort of like wow you know all the whole catalog to what you could do there was all like how you can make it in the music biz and you know getting played on the radio yeah so i just um thought that i would go and just videotape uh myself or or my girlfriend at the time who was that wife at the time sally tims when did you get

married how old were you um the first one first one was like 1996 how old were you um i must have been just in my early 30s turning 30 yeah i got married that time yeah yeah um and so she had the camera and then i just interviewed bands as different characters, right? So like as a German guy, as a mentally disabled person, as a blind person. And then a friend of mine. And they didn't know. No, some of them knew Steve Albini was one of them. He knew I was going to do something.

And then this tape South by about South by Southwest, someone edited it and it became a sort of thing that I could play at clubs. I gave it to people it got around the the old school viral yeah right pony express days yeah um i started uh showing this at clubs that i'd performed at with trench mouth and i was getting more press and more people were turning out for that than for playing with the band for the video yeah and all i had to do was sort of show up and play this tape so i found a real drive to keep doing it all and i think in that moment to do the interviews to do comedy oh really people would talk about

this videotape but all of a sudden that became since that day that became my job that became doing more and more comedy. One thing led to another and then to something else and then to something else. Well, when did you start doing it live? I started doing it for this channel called HBO Zone. These little tapes, these little interstitial tapes. Then there was a place called the Cornelia Street Cafe in New York that- I know that place.

Yeah. Downstairs? Yeah. They were doing some shows and I was like, oh, I have an idea for something. That weird thin room. Yes. Yeah. I was like, I saw this self-defense expert on Oprah.

Can I do a self-defense performance? And then right there, I think that's where I started doing characters on stage as an act. What was the angle on the self-defense performance. And then right there, I think that's where I started doing characters on stage as a, as an act. What was the angle on the self-defense guy? That he gave misinformation because when I saw the original self-defense guy, it's all these things, how to protect your purse and your wallet and how to walk down the street, things that people can't naturally do.

Yeah. You know, the idea of like, this is what's right is crazy. You know, there's no way you can memorize all these things. So from that, I just thought, I'll do one of those guys. And I just kind of kept doing that. How'd you get back to New York though? You're in Chicago. How do you get to Cornelia Street? I was spending time there because I was playing drums for Blue Man Group and part of the training for it.

The original Blue Man Group? Yeah, but they had a franchise in Chicago. Right. They had a Chicago show. So Trenchmouth had broken up and I was playing drums for the Chicago Blue Man Group. That was, you didn't look at them and go like, I need to do some of that.

You know, I'll tell you something. I learned a lot. Like what? That people want to be entertained. This Chicago show. I saw Blue Man Group. Yeah. Yeah.

It's a very entertaining show. It's pure entertainment. It's crazy. It's crazy. So, you know, there's a band. Did you like the guys? They were great. Yeah.

Real pros, right? Real pros. Kind of acrobat athletic yeah performers but i played the drums in the band my first paycheck in entertainment you know what i mean like yeah i got paid a hundred dollars a show there were different drummers and whenever i played a hundred dollars was like a million dollars to me and that's sort of an intense thing because the drum goes all through all the way through right and but but being in the chicago show i would look at the audience and every night people would show up and there was like this lesson of like don't

overthink it you know don't it doesn't have to be such a you know it could just be pure entertainment and every night people would show up and buy a ticket you know and it really uh lightened things up for me like stop you know when I was in a punk band, it was so mathematical and like, we got out, you know, out red hot chili peppers, the red hot chili peppers. We can't be hacked. We can't be hacks.

And what, that's not, you know, that's not an original sound. Right, yeah, right. Just that you sort of kill yourself with this, like you just stomp all over like any creativity. Yeah. So Blue Man Group taught me like, calm down. Yeah. Just, it's okay. It's okay. Relax. So Blue Man Group taught me like, calm down. Yeah.

Just, it's okay. It's okay. Relax. It could be, lighten up a little. Lighten up. You know,

we were painted different colors and stuff. Anyway, so that's why I was in New York. I was training for that. And then that was just something I thought I would do. You were training for Blue Man Group. Yeah, because the original group is in New York.

So you, I learned the drum parts for that in New York. So you auditioned for that? Oh, yes. So you were like working at a cafe or something, doing your punk band. Yep. And you saw that they were auditioning for Blue Man Group.

Yeah. And you went and you sat in front in a room, probably a bright room with a few guys and a drum kit. We jammed. We all jammed. Oh, yeah? We all jammed oh yeah we all jammed and then uh i just kept playing these parts and then next thing i knew i had this incredible job and they flew you to new york and then you were just sort of a guy uh who was the

one of the go-to drummers for blue man yes they rotated how many rotated three uh sets of bands so okay there's like a full-time guy and I was like one of the fill-ins. And then around December, there'd be many shows and then in the summer, a little fewer, but it was... So you did that for a while?

Two years, something in there. Drumming for Blue Man Group. Yeah. For two years. Yeah, something in there. And they'd paint you blue? No, like red and green.

Like, so there was a black light and it was a skeletal... Yeah. I had a skeletal figure on my shirt. Yeah. Did you like it? I loved it. It was great.

It was great. It was like, it felt just right. So when you went to New York to learn the drum parts, you were just wandering around to the Cornelia Street? I mean.

No. The wife or girlfriend of one of the blue men ran this show. At the Cornelia Street. Yeah. It was a variety show. It was a variety show. Uh-huh. Susan, she was like, do you want to do something on the show?

And that's just. And you'd never done stand-up or any performance? No, no, no, no, never. So did you improvise it? No, I thought it out. Yeah? Yeah. And eventually that character, the self-defense character,

as the years went, and I did it at Largo. I would do it in different places. I did it in Chicago, and I met Zach Galifianakis, and he told Lisa Langang you should book him at Largo, and that's how I ended up doing stuff at Largo, through Lisa. And it was the self-defense gang? Yes, and that was the first time I was on a network TV.

So I did that on Conan. The self-defense guy. That self-defense guy, yeah. And so it kind of came... If you, at the time at Largo, if you had been going to shows, you were, you know, apparently you didn't go see me

when I was there. I'm trying to remember. No. Because when that happened though, when you saw me get hit, I wasn't living out here. Ah. I didn trying to remember. No. Because when that happened, though, when you saw me get hit, I wasn't living out here. I lived out here for a year in the late 80s and was primarily just at the comedy store being a doorman. And I didn't really move back to LA until 2002. So I was just here for a week or two weeks. i thought you were like an la guy no new york

always new york i was the other coast i was a luna guy luna lounge oh yeah i remember luna yeah so so i was just in and out so i wouldn't have seen you so okay so you i was i mean i was kind of making i mean i wasn't no no no no but it's true because I missed that chunk of your pre-SNL performance time. Because you met Zach in Chicago doing your bit. Were you doing it before bands? Yeah, sometimes before bands, before Jeff Tweedy or Wilco or something. You're friends with them? Oh, yeah, I've known them a long time.

Yeah? Yeah, I used to work for Jeff's wife, Susan, Sue Miller. You knew them when they were Uncle Tupelo? Oh, yeah. Also when Jeff was doing some solo stuff. But you knew that band, the Uncle Tupelo band? Yeah, I knew Jeff. I didn't know the rest of them.

But didn't they start somewhere else, or were they always Chicago? They were in southern or middle Illinois. Okay. Okay. So you knew them broke that band broke up yeah that's when that's when he started

when he was with Sue and I would open for them sometimes and you do how many characters just one I would do

Ferrisito the Latin timbale player like a Tito Puente kind of guy yeah I remember that guy and nobody knew who I was

and they were very they did not like it when I was opening so it was I think that's specifically Kaufman-esque in a way like andy kaufman like you didn't no one said this is a comedy act right right yeah i wanted to make it seem real like uh right like i wanted to make it seem like oh there's this latin guy that jeff likes that jeff likes, you know, for some reason they've had him on this show.

So I started doing that and I did that a couple of times. And how often did people just be like, ugh? It was interesting. They were so upset that they actually didn't boo or anything. They were just silent as in, let's let this guy get through this. And you're just like overly happy. Yeah. Committed. Yeah.

And you can really play. Yeah. And do some jokes that I think I ripped off completely from Tito Puente. And I had the Timbales up there. And then people were just, in their own way, very polite of like, let's just, this will end at some point. Well, you would think Tweety would have a fairly sensitive, respectful crew. Yes, yes. So it was the right crowd.

You didn't get any meatheads. No, it was more, exactly. It was more sort of confusion and forgiveness. Like, let's just, you know, he's almost done. And you like that? You like that reaction? I liked it because, you know, I hadn't been doing it for very long right so for me any excuse to go up and do something to me it was a huge um it was a feat it was a very like wow i'm actually i'm no longer in a band now i'm going in front of people and

this is what i'm doing yeah so when you did that first one at cornelia street and i imagine you got laughs yeah and you killed was it did you realize at that moment like oh shit this is yes this is what this is where it's at for me it was an immediate feeling yeah even the amount of time i must have been out there you know maybe five minutes or so and that felt like the right amount of time to be right there everything about it just the first performance was like this is what i would like to do right and because you can do whatever the fuck you want yes and it can be confusing it could be whatever it is and it's okay because they didn't have like you know right uh right it wasn't a

stand-up comedy venue so well that's the amazing thing i think also about stand-up to a degree is that you really decide the context is whatever it is yes you you do whatever you you know just you should be funny but you can do it however you want and i also had nothing to lose right like because uh it just didn't it didn't matter that much i was like i've gotten this far this is you know this is huge for me so how'd you meet zach zach was on a uh a chicago show that i did i think it's chicago comedy festival or something and he was on the Chicago show that I did. I think it was Chicago Comedy Festival or something, and he was on the same show. One of the first Chicago Comedy Festivals?

One of those, yeah. That was a chaotic bit of business. I think, you know, I guess. I think I did the first one. Yeah. Like 99. It was a lot smaller. This must have been 2000 or 2001.

I'm going to say 2001 maybe. Uh-huh. 2000. Right, it was run by a guy when I did it because I got sober right after that, 98 or 2001. I'm going to say 2001 maybe. It was run by a guy when I did it because I got sober right after that. 98 or 99. And I think they took it away from him. I think he lost hold of it and then they started doing it

a little more organized. And that's where you met Zach. That's where I met Zach. And then he was really helpful. He talked to Lisa Liongate. That makes sense to me. Him respecting the uniqueness of what you were doing. Yeah.

He's a like-minded person. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was very helpful. Nick Swartzen, too, when I was at Largo, he was very helpful in hooking me up with agents and all that stuff. Really? Oh, yeah. So on Zach's word, you came out to LA.

I might have already been living in LA, but I think Zach was the one who connected me with Lisa Langang. So you moved out because of HBO Zone. Yes. You were like, this is the thing. And you were doing the characters. I was doing the characters,

and I felt like I didn't have to live anywhere else. But I love LA. I just have always wanted to live in L.A. And how are your parents feeling about this? They're very proud. Oh, yeah? They're very, yes. They were excited that you were excited?

Yes. At first, they were confused. They didn't know what this was that was happening. And the band thing was very, I think, sort of a disappointment to them. Scary to them, I imagine. Yes. How do you explain to them? They just think it's not going to work out yeah they're worried usually is what happens with

band parents and understandable the older i get the more i go oh i get of course they're worried yeah right yeah also the amount of convincing i had to do no mom i'm you know i'm touring yeah yeah what does that mean yeah all right so you come to la you do an hbo zone you do largo schwartzen sets you up with some representation and then so all of us already i'm just doing comedy music is already in the past right and bob odenkirk saw me at uh largo so we're talking 2002 nope one um pre 9-11 he put me on a pilot that he did called Next. I became friendly with him. And then from there, I was able to have enough like tape and stuff

to like start applying to SNL or whatever. So that was the goal from that point early on. You were like, that's the destination. I had a manager at the time who was like, hey, we just put Seth Meyers on SNL. And I was like, I remember them saying, do you want to be on? I was like, what are you talking? Of courseyers on SNL. And I was like, I remember them saying, do you want to be on?

I was like, what are you talking, of course I want to be on. Now where does the first. First of all, are you happy with this? Are you happy with this interview so far? Yeah, I love that you were a drummer for Blue Man Group. Oh, you didn't know it. I didn't know it.

Why, does everyone know that? I think people in their own ego think everyone knows everything. Oh, but yeah, I mean, obviously you've talked about it. But no, I like talking to you. I didn't know how it was going to go. but you know, you kind of move through the life. Yeah. So, all right.

So you tell, they say Seth Meyers, we just got Seth Meyers on, it's 2001. Do you want to be on SNL? Yeah. And I think the next year that I started, they sent a tape to Marcy Klein at SNL. Yeah. Of what? Of me doing those characters, you know, Felicito and all that stuff. Stuff from being on Conan and also from being on Bob Odenkirk's show next.

Now, where's the first wife in this? Is that done? That's done. How long did that last? Well, a couple of years we were together and then we stayed married for a while. But I was, you know, I did it long distance and we were friends. It was not friendly for a while and then it was friendly and then... How long were you married?

I would say... We were in a coupledom for like maybe two years or so. Right. But then we stayed married. So we broke up. Right. But we remained married for a while until we could sort out all the divorce stuff. Right.

Later on. So it was when I was in SNL that we could sort out all the divorce stuff later on. So it was when I was in SNL that we finally sorted out all the divorce. Was it bad? Initially, it was bad, but then it became not bad. She's still a musician? She's still a musician. She sings with the Mekons. Oh, that's a good band.

So she's British. She's a great singer. And you guys are okay? Yeah, ish. You know, those things, it's... Horrible, yeah. It's, yeah, you... I don't talk to you.

It's, you know, it's, how do you describe something like that, you know? Well, if you don't have kids, there's no real reason... Right. ...to maintain a relationship, but you'd hope it would be polite. Like, my first wife, it's okay. Right, it's like... You know, I see her at family events because she was friends with my brother's wife, first wife. And, you know, it's good.

It's good now. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, she's very instrumental in, you know, getting me actually into comedy. How so? She introduced me to a lot of British comedy. Dennis Pennis, The Day Today, Steve Coogan. And I think that's kind of like where, and those are names, by the way,

that all comedians are like, hey, you know, it's like a cool calling card. But I really mean it that she showed me tapes of these people who really kind of got this idea in my head of you don't have to be like a standup standup comedian. You could be this other thing. Yeah, but never Andy Kaufman. Absolutely Andy Kaufman.

When I was a kid, that's almost like, I assume that's something that affected everybody, Andy Kaufman. I don't know if that's true. Well, for me and my friends. Yeah. He was it. SCTV and Andy Kaufman. Absolutely. Andy Kaufman, I mean, like, we just, you know, we all imitated him and talked about him.

Andy Kaufman, absolutely. Oh, my God. Yeah, but see, the reason why I'm saying it, and it's interesting to me that you're like, wasn't everybody? Is that, no, obviously it wasn't everybody. I suppose not, yeah. And the truth of the matter is that you definitely draw a line between what you see as the shortcomings or the limitations of stand-up comedy. And, you know, because that's over here. Yeah.

And, you know, you knew that was one way. So, you know, knowing that you liked Andy Kaufman, who was above and beyond or extraordinarily different, but somehow placed in stand-up historically. Yes. So, you know, he was unto his own. But I see that you make a distinction between traditional stand-up comedy and the freedom that you found to do what you do. Only for me.

Right. That I didn't have the ability to. No, but it's interesting to me that Kaufman had such an impact on you. Oh, yes. Because he was definitely a specific thing and not everybody's thing. I suppose. I didn't even think about that that it wouldn't be everybody's thing right but um for me yeah absolutely like what was

the first thing you saw him do that made you go like holy mighty mouse oh that was it huh mighty mouse and then all the wrestling stuff where he would i remember he did something where he was just like talking right to camera and he's like like, hey, everyone in the South, this is soap. And that was just that concept of like, oh, this is so immediately insulting. It was so, and he's kind of doing a character. Oh my, I just, very idea of it. It really, really, I loved it.

But we were a little, were you seeing it in real time? Like Mighty Mouse? No, I was, this is, something happened where SNL must have been doing reruns or something. Because that's 76. Yes. Yeah. And somehow in 1980 or somewhere in the years where it was started to. And that's where you were introduced to him. That's where it was happening for my friends and Mike.

So you saw Andy Kaufman for the first time on maybe like an SNL anniversary, something, a repeat. And I've asked Lauren about it. I'm like, Lauren, why do I know these things that happened in 1976 or 75? But I think maybe they- What does he say? I think that they re-ran

some of the original episodes at some point around then. You've asked that to him to his face? And he says what yeah i don't know or no he'll say like yeah i think they had a like he'll explain that there was some system where because yeah yeah yeah he's it's nice that he answers you he tries to figure out like i can't see that that's necessarily on his radar where they repeated it he seems to have a good he's got a good library for that stuff. Oh really?

In his head, yeah. And I ask about it, all of it. Because those musical guests on SNL, I will never stop asking him about the bands that he had on. Like who? The specials. Right. Yeah.

He put the specials on TV. Yeah. I think it's the best musical performance ever of anything. Uh-huh. And definitely of of anything. Uh-huh. And definitely of SNL. Uh-huh. And he put this... What did they perform?

Ghost Town? What did they... Gangsters. Oh, yeah. I mean, it's the greatest thing ever. I can't get enough of that. And Devo.

Uh-huh. And what do you ask him? Like, what was it like? Why? Yeah. How did you know? Didn't he have a booker? He had a booker, but I think he was trying to reflect

what was going on in music at the time, talking heads too. I think Devo, he explained to me, they had the same manager as Neil Young. It was one of those things. Right. But then, Lorne has this ability to sort of sum up in a couple of phrases what the band was. And I think with Devo he was like art

schools he says something about art school I was like okay he you know he yeah right he recognizes what all these right hands were the b-52s yeah talking hands all these bands that like really inspired you know what how I do comedy even that kind of performance straight to camera you know costumes so this so that's interesting to me that that your sense of of what creative freedom could be as a performer in in in the specific way it applies to you came from snl yes yes as a young person yes i remember david bowie did something where he had like a klaus nomi was his backup singer he had He had like a fake dog with a TV in his mouth. Just visual things that immediately resonated with me. And you were like, what, 15?

Something in there. Yeah. Yeah. So when I see Lorne now, that's the guy I see. I'm like, he had a connection to all of that. So it's directly, you know, right. But it's interesting that it wired your brain for who you are creatively, you know, specifically, you know, comedically and musically to a degree without a doubt. And that's something without a doubt.

That's like, I just did a classic talk. What do you, what do you know? We both decided. Yeah. So I, then that,

that sort of loads up the, the possibility for you to be on it as being like this mind-blowing thing. Yeah. SNL meant a lot to me always. Always has. Still does. I still watch it. I'm still connected to it. I've always understood the language of it.

Even when I didn't agree with the host, I understood why they were the host. Now, how long has it been since you've been on? I was on, you know, I left in 2012. You miss it? Oh, no, 2013. I finished in 2013. It's only been a couple of years. I'm always around it.

Was it your choice? Yeah. It sure was. Hard choice to make. But you're still in the family. Yeah. I remember Amy Poehler telling me, she's like the family i mean yeah it's a i remember amy poehler telling me she's like you'll feel when it's time to go yeah and she said don't worry

lauren will always be in your life snl will be in your life don't worry because that's what i was worried about i was like i want to this is you know i love being around it and and yeah and you were like well let's let's let's work up to that. So they send the tape. Oh, yes. They send a tape, and then they bring me into audition. And I went to UCB, went up and did my- The original UCB with the shitty, the weird seats? Yes.

But you walked in, and you kind of had to walk by the stage? When you walked in, the stage was on the right, and you had to make- That's the one. Yeah. Okay. So who else is on the night night so this is where your audition is going to be yeah and everyone else who auditioned was um groups like improv groups interesting and then i i went up and i did that and then a while later maybe a month later two months later they asked me to come back and do it at the studio oh right camera audition yeah they flew me to, and I was already like in heaven.

I was like, I can't believe this is happening. It was just for Marcy at UCB or Lauren came? Oh, Lauren came. Tina Fey came too. She was the head writer? Yeah, yes. Yeah. And then,

she was head writer. There was a couple of head writers I think at the time. And then when I met Lauren, I was like, I was like, you knew george harrison you said that to him at ucb yeah and then i asked him and then this is a very

typical lauren thing to say but i asked i was like just this conversation like so are you seeing a lot of people meaning you know auditioners and he answered no which of people, meaning, you know, auditioners? And he answered, no. Which is a very honest, like, you know, you would think the answer would be like, oh, yeah. But he was very like, no, we are not. So when you said you knew George Harrison, you sort of approached him with an intensity and a sort of left field question because it was what was compelling to you.

How did he respond to that? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, can you imagine someone who knew george harrison i don't know i don't know if you love george harrison any of the beatles yeah they're like you know he knows paul simon too yeah yeah paul simon i mean that calls everyone he that was my way in yeah you know of like george harrison paul mccartney but like all this subsequent conversations about the rest of the bands i loved it ricky v jones let's talk about all these bands that conversation doesn't end every time i see him every time i see

him you know yeah so fascinating to me so all right so you say do you love george harrison are you seeing a lot of people no and that And that's it. That's the end of the conversation. End of the conversation. Met Tina. Then I did it again at the studio. And then, you know, from there, Marcy Klein told me that I got the job. So then did you have to meet Lauren again? I ended up not.

I just saw him again in the studio. But I didn't have like an official meeting with him. Now, was there a fear like, I mean, in approaching this? Because you seem sort of like, like you were ready to go. Like, I'm not, I'm not sensing any kind of like I was freaking out. No, no, no. It was all, everything was just dessert. It was like ice cream.

You know, it was like, I still think of it that way. I still think I can't believe it. I can't believe my luck. What a nice thing to like watch the show and get to know these people. Because, you know, there's the show and there's the people, you know. Yeah. There are these, you know, crazy people who like built this thing. Yeah.

Like who? I mean, like, like Lorne and all the people around him. Uh-huh. And, you know, Steve Higg and and all the people on the cast people from casts from before who just were part of the of it all a family alumni yeah and they'd come in occasionally wander around yeah just chevy chase would come in chevy chase walk around molly shannon was there ever a point where like why is that guy hanging around every day? Who? Like any of them. No, no, no.

It was never for long enough to ever get that sense. It was always. Not sad. No, because also it's like this building in the middle of Manhattan. Yeah. So it's not very physically friendly in that way. Right. It's like where there's a bar and you can hang out. It is a little, it's cold enough that people just pop in and out.

Right. Now, during your time there, which was like, what, a little over a decade? Yeah, 11 years. Like you said, there'd be times where you didn't agree with the host, but you understood. Oh, no, I meant watching the show. So before I was ever on, when I was a musician, I would see a host, who knows who, but who was more of a pop culture figure. And I would disagree, but agree with the choice they made. Like, ah, but I understand.

Why is he on? I understand. Right. So you learned about show business. Yes. I understood the logic of how SNL is like a newspaper or a magazine. Right. Where it doesn't all have to be such a catalog evening.

It's all sort of, hey, this is for right now. This is how it should be sure and over the course of the decade i mean what was meeting musicians that you respected more exciting than doing the show um it was yes it was it was really exciting seeing all the all the different kinds too you know stuff i, people I never would have imagined meeting. Like who? I remember meeting the musicians for Paul Simon, Steve Gadd, the drummer, who I,

it never occurred to me that I'd ever meet this person. Right. He'd been with him for years, right? Oh, he's the, he's 50 Ways to Leave Your Loves. Yeah, yeah. He composed that drum beat.

Yeah. So, at the studio, this is going to sound like a made-up talk show story but i i have you told it many times no okay i've never but i saw him and i go you gotta show me that beat so we went to the kit we went to the kit and he showed me what it is yeah and it's an upside down insane beat that makes no sense. And he was like, and you know how musicians, you assume they talk like scholars? Yeah. He was like a New York guy.

He's like, yeah, I just kind of turned around. You know, I had this, he's very sort of, he explained it in a very simple way, but it's a very upside down, bizarre beat. Can you nail it? Yeah, it's like you know yeah yeah yeah um but you couldn't have figured that out on your own no way no way really because the way you hear it is different than it's played oh okay you hear something and you assume it's something and he's like no yeah so who else like did you pull aside and have to go look at their instruments or get some?

There were bands like, I remember Modest Mouse. Uh-huh. And I remember Jack White, too, where I would look at all the pedals that they had, which was great, too. I'm like, wow, they really have like a full setup. So you were the guy out there. All the time. With the, when the music rehearsal was on.

Yeah, loved it. Yeah. Seeing how they did it. Loved it always. Was it only you from the cast who would... No, I think a bunch of us. Bill Hader was a super... Everyone.

Yeah. Depending on the band. Right. You're just out there and just seeing what they have, all the little stuff that they take for granted. And you must have met a lot of musicians that you didn't necessarily like their music, but you were like, wow.

Yes. Yeah. All the time. Especially like- Because they're playing live and that's not, that doesn't always happen. I don't know how much backtracking they do or how many much overdubbing they do on those live performances, but they're pretty live. They're-

The real deal. Yes. Especially hip hop actors. I'm actually not that educated in. Right. So to see their live band, I'm like'm like oh that's the drummer who plays for whoever yeah look at that job yeah look at that guy holding everything together yeah you know at a volume where you can hear everything else it was it was pretty amazing wow yeah so in terms of

creating characters and doing impressions how much work do you have to put in i mean i imagine that building characters from the inside out that you invent is something more organic. But impressions, I mean, what do you do? Is it like rehearsing music? No. It's like the other way around where you reach for what is in your wheelhouse anyway. So it's not like you wrestle with it. You just find something like, I think I could do so-and-so.

Right. I think that, you know, my skull looks like their skull. I think that my... Right. They seem to be from New York. And then you just drop into it? Yeah. Because it's a knack thing.

It's almost like you just, like you walk into the groove. Yeah. Like it's almost like an essence. Yes. Right? It's an essence. You know, I look at a picture of somebody. Sometimes someone would throw something at you and you get lucky.

Uh-huh. Someone wrote something where I played David Lee Roth. And I'd never imagined trying to do them. But then you get lucky. You probably could have gone to his apartment and worked with him for a little while. That would have been great. He was around to hang out. So stuff like that.

Also, I don't walk around thinking, hey, Mark, I'm the king of impressions. You know what I'm saying? I'm like, it's just you know also I don't I don't walk around thinking hey Mark I'm the king of impressions you know what I'm saying I'm like no no no it worked for SNL but I you know I don't

I never even think of you that way really I think of you of more of a guy who creates characters like you did a show and I think I talked to you about it before

yeah that was like painful to me in a way I think did I talk to you about it before you used to it was it was so perfect and and so brutal and it's weird that i reacted to this as being brutal you did the guy who's

doing the one-man show oh yeah yeah that because there was a period there in comedy specifically which is exactly i think defines the different world that you run in creatively. Where a comic would, you know, in order to get more attention on himself, would create a show with a narrative, like a one-man show that didn't necessarily have to be funny. And it happened a lot. And I did one. So, you you know there was this guy you did i saw it at ucb i think here uh you know where you're just telling i don't remember what the story was do you do you know the character i'm talking about i remember the character but i don't remember it was just a guy doing a one-man show and you had the movement of a guy that was awkward with stage movement

but having to make the point that he's trying to make about his life. Yeah. And like, it might have been a Long Island guy, I think.

Sounds about right, yeah. And I was just sort of like, oh no. Like, it was such a specific impression because it wouldn't read as a satire

unless you knew that world. You know what I mean? Yeah, it's for us. Yeah. It's, you know i don't know who's going to be entertained by it but i figured right but to me it was sort of like oh that's brutal because it was just this earnest dude you know what struck me was you were playing a guy who was performing because he had he put the time into putting this thing together, but talent didn't play into it. Right. I had seen a show somewhere. Right. Might have been when Aspen was still happening.

Right. That was like a very serious one-man show. And there was something about the volume of someone. Because it's so quiet in between words. Do you know what I mean? Like it's loud, but then I'm so nervous as an audience member because it's so quiet in between where they say something

and then and then you hear their footsteps too on the stage you're and that and then they pause they pause

and it's so thoughtful that I it feels too still I could feel it in my stomach it is yeah that's what drove you was that that yes moment It feels too still. I could feel it in my stomach.

That's what drove you? Was that that moment? Yes. And as you described it, it doesn't have to be funny. It's kind of not funny. It's actually quite serious. Right. And how profound it is.

Maybe. Life. At least in the way it's presented it's presented as profound and and questioning and like the whole like what you know the the questioning of everything what does it all mean yeah exactly yeah exactly it's just you know but to me that really speaks to who you are creatively that your discomfort in those silences of a guy trying to make a very earnest point about his experience yeah uh was the tone tone that drove the character. Yeah, I kind of want to live in it forever.

It's just so horrible that I want to live in it forever. So you have to SNL, and Lauren was fine. Your experience with Lauren, it sounds, was because I think of your confidence And Lauren was fine. Your experience with Lauren, it sounds, was because I think of your confidence and your excitement that seemed to kind of last the entire time you were there, that you didn't see Lauren as frightening. No. I saw him as someone who wants to make something.

So when people want to make something, I think, yeah, what is this that you do? What are we making? Yeah. How did you do this? What do you want? Yeah. What's your next thing? Yeah. And watching him, just watching him direct,

even though he's not the director of the show, but he would give notes on the dress rehearsal. Right. He'd give notes on the dress rehearsal. The way he saw everything on the walls the color of wigs the color i i someone who's obsessed with aesthetics i'm i'm so on board i'm like who's that guy right so you know i i i worry that i don't think enough about color. I'm like, look at this guy. Isn't that wall a little dark? He's so on it.

And then he's very, also with, he doesn't let you get precious about yourself. He doesn't let you go, he doesn't want you to think like, hey, I'm great. I got it, yeah. Which is the best way to be. Really? It's the best thing to serve the sketch to serve the show but he's encouraging or no he's encouraging but he protects you from yourself he's protected protected me from myself so many times in what way like an example an

example this is a really good example i did a a character, ooh, a little bit based on you and David Cross. Oh, yeah, I remember that, yeah. And. Yeah, I got emails about that. Yeah, yeah. I think Armisen's. Nicholas Fane. Yeah.

And he dressed a little bit like you. Yeah. But talked a little bit like David Cross. And the joke of it is I never finish a sentence. He's a comedian? He's a comedian, but, you know, Largo. He's like a Largo comedian. Right.

And the joke is I never finish a sentence. It's half sentences. Like what? For example. If I did it right now, you wouldn't appreciate the way you would laugh or the way that you would want it to be on your show. Well, you would take away from it. So it's like that.

It's like... So it's that. Anyway, I did it for dress rehearsal. Then I did it for air. His note was, we're not going to do it for dress rehearsal anymore because you are trying too hard to make it sound like jazz.

Where jazz musicians enjoy their own music. Right. You're trying too hard to make it sound like jazz where jazz musicians enjoy their own music right you're trying too hard to make it different every time right so he saw that he's protecting me from me trying too hard no more no more rehearsing this business let's do it on air where it could be fresh and and what a reference that it's like jazz instead of like hey you know check me out right it's like that has to go right that, you know, check me out. Right. It's like that has to go. Right. That's someone who knows me better than I know myself performance-wise.

Uh-huh. And he did that a lot. He did that a lot. What a thing to do. Well, I think because he, you know, he knew innately that, you know, your talent was seemingly boundless and specific. So he knew that you were going to get it. You know what I mean?

Whatever the hell it is that you're putting together, you were going to get it. But your overworking element is your liability. Is my worst enemy. Right. Interesting. Yeah. So stuff like that. And also, maybe there was an impression I did that wasn't great. ability is is my is my worst enemy right interesting yeah so stuff like that also and also like you

know maybe there was an impression i did that wasn't great maybe there was a character i did that was like so so right we're not doing it on the air did you know usually that he was right in those times or did he ever i learned that it took me a few years uh-huh and i'd feel like a more like a failure i'd go damn it why didn, why didn't I just, I should have. But then later, I was like, I understood, oh, it's just a show. Right. And there are a million other opportunities to do something else where you can do that.

Right. But it seems like you're unique in the SNL, the people I've talked to and the people I've known over the years that you still seem to, you're still sort of a mystery talent wise in the sense that, you know, you didn't, you always seem like the best part of you in a way, you know, is on stage. Not in a moral judgment, just in that you kind of leave

it on stage and then you get off stage and you're not like, hey, there's Fred Armisen out at the thing. Look at Fred. You know, you're not doing what a lot of past performers do. You went in an entirely different direction in a way because I think you had more choice in the way you went. That you seem to be generating something that you are intrinsically involved with creatively in in a way that gives you the most freedom possible yeah i'll take it i mean the way you described it is better than i could have ever put you know what i mean oh yeah yeah like you didn't sort of like you know i'm gonna do a bunch of movies based on the characters i do

right i'm gonna keep doing new characters in in a creative environment with Carrie for a network that gives us a lot of freedom and really see where it goes and not have to play into this mega million dollar studio machine where you might have been crushed. Right. I don't think things far enough ahead. Yeah. I just do it little by little. Right. But that is basically the way it is. This seems fun and this seems lucky.

Because all these things... Were you a musical director for Seth Meyers' show for the first, what, six months or something? Or are you still doing that? Still doing it. From afar. I love Eleanor Friedberger. How great is Eleanor Friedberger? The best.

How great is she? I love her. I wish. How great is Eleanor Friedberger? The best. How great is she? I love her. I wish we could have been married. It didn't work out. Well, you can still maintain a type of relationship with her. I haven't. We met and we spent a little time together and I really liked her, but it didn't seem logical to me.

Have we dated some of the same people, Mark? Probably. I think we have. Okay okay let's go through it you really want to go through it sure i don't because i i don't i don't date a lot of show business people and her and i we we only you know maybe dated a couple times but i was sort of like you know in you know starting something else and you know it didn't and she lives far away so you know what i? But there's always a way that if you really like someone. That's right. To keep them in your life. Anyway, it doesn't have to be dating.

I don't know if I've really gotten the hang of that. Have you? With some people. Right. So, with people like Eleanor. Yeah. Who, you know, we didn't date anymore, but there's still a way to, you know. Right.

For example, withh meyer's show like how about why don't you stay in my life right somehow play some guitar on this thing i'm doing and there's actually like it's there's something kind of there's an intense intimacy to that yeah it's it's it's actually nicer because it's not loaded the same way yes exactly so um yeah but you've had some fairly public you know disturbing relationships it seems oh yeah i've had but you can't hide i guess no and it's these are you know the choices that i made yeah so why would you get married again because it's it's so intoxicating the idea of it or the actual being it because all of it how long were you married to Elizabeth Moss? Two years? Less than that.

Under a year. Was that heartbreaking? I was very heartbroken at myself. I felt very, I gave myself a hard time. I felt very bad. And I've sort of- That it broke up? Just at how little true work I would put into something

that I got so caught up in the beginning. The beginning is so intoxicating. How long had you known her? A year. Okay, so that's a year. So the whole thing was very short. Right. And you were like, let's get married.

It's so exciting. And this is going to sound very shallow, but I get lost in fantasy a lot. Really? The guy who does characters? But I would hope that I had a place where I didn't get lost in it. But the fantasy of this person from Mad Men and- Great actress.

Great actress. Incredibly compelling and unique. Incredible. Great actress. Great actress. Incredibly compelling and unique. Incredible. And then as a person is interesting and all of it, all of a sudden there's, it's almost like a slide of like, this is great.

It's like starstruck in a way. It is like being starstruck. And I was getting to know the other people from the show and her, and I even felt like at SNL, I was all of a sudden, I was talking about, Hey, you know, guess what's happening with me? Yeah. So it was very, very exciting. And I think I just only got caught up in that part of it without the problem.

And this, you know, we're talking about this relationship. This is something that's happened to me a million times. But when do you know it goes bad? I mean, like, so you get married, you go through all that. It's still exciting. Yes. And then what the fuck happened every i i have a problem with intimacy where all of a sudden there's a real person there right oh so now you're stuck now now i'm like oh there's a person behind

all of this it's not the girl on mad men it's not the girl it's a it's a person with feelings the same thing happened with sally, is that she's British. So I heard this accent. Yeah. I'm marrying this British woman who's in a band. And then all of a sudden, there's a real person there. And I'm trying to fix this.

I'm trying to get better at this. But something happens in me where it's almost like an amnesia, where it's almost like waking up and going, where am I? Who is this person? Even why is this person looking me directly in the eye and having a conversation with me? Having emotional expectations. Yes.

It's a very, it's something that I. So you can be sort of in a spell. Yes. For like a year or two. Yes. And that's a public one. When I lived in Chicago, I would move from apartment to apartment. I remember I would move in with so many people.

Just lived with a girl. Women. And then met someone else, moved in with them. The amount of times in my life I've had. Oh, a lot of broken hearts back there, huh? Yeah. And the amount of times I've had furniture sort of handed to me. It's happened a lot of broken hearts back there, huh? Yeah. And the amount of times I've had furniture sort of, you know, handed to me, you know, it's, it's happened a lot.

And like, I want you out. Who usually ends it? You or her? It's me being, becoming impossible. Oh, so you, you make it, shut it down. You make it. Yeah. Or do you start saying things like you're going to go?

I, well, there's infidelity, there's cheating and there's all, you know all, you know, it's the most chaos I've had in my life. Around women. Yes. And that's the, you know, bad side of it. I'm neither ashamed or proud of it. It's just something that's happened in my life that, and this is just a relationship part of it. is just a relationship part of it. I'm not even talking about the sex part of it where when I was in a band and stuff where my

main goal was to hook up with strangers on tour. That's not unusual for performers. I want to do it to get girls. Yes. Where are we touring? I know someone in San Francisco. I actually know a girl in Seattle. I have

a suspicion that might have contributed to the fact that our band didn't get as far as it did because I certainly wasn't about the music. Right. When I was at recording studios with the band, I never thought it should have been a different kind of band. Maybe. But I still would have found the same chaos. I think I still would have. And I say these things because I don't I'm not finished being a person.

Look, we share this, dude. I mean, I know that compulsion of connecting yeah and the compulsion of of feeling the the excitement of engaging sexually with with strangers it's like there's really nothing like it there's nothing like no and and you know now either you like everything else and in our lifetime you know there's a framing for it you know that you know the sex addiction or whatever and and being a guy who who is familiar with recovery from drugs and you know understanding you know that yeah okay yeah maybe I can look at it like that but it's still like it's still sex you

know but the chaos thing you, you can't underestimate how compelling that is either. Because when you're a person who is creative and you work really hard, that there's something you like about the excitement of chaos. Yes. But all of a sudden, when you start realizing how many people get hurt, then all of a sudden you're like, oh, fuck. Right. Right.

If only that wasn't part of it. And I wonder how, like, you know, because there are musicians out there. When you hear David Lee Roth stories or Gene Simmons, I'm like, how do those people do it? Because they don't seem to have the same, you know, we don't know these people. You don't know it at all. See, that's the same part of your brain that romanticizes everything else. The thought that, like, those guys do it. It's like, we don't know these people you don't know it at all see that's the same part of your brain that romanticizes everything else is like yes the thought that like those guys do it it's like we don't know their fucking we don't know their life it could be a nightmare absolutely fucking night we do not know you know you know this public personality who's like that guy gets

so much pussy yes but you know at home he could be like you know just apologizing you know every five minutes i think you're right. Oh, dude. We're all humans. Yeah. But I don't see... No, because you're fantasizing again. Yeah. Where's that?

I want to be the guy that gets away with it. Yes. I'm like, how did they... When they're getting away with it, I don't know if they... I'm sure there must be some hurt feelings in there, too. Oh, God, man. Yeah. But we're not...

I still believe in myself i still feel i'm like i no matter how much i've fucked up in my life i still think well that's okay let's keep going there's a way to well now you also got a little public rap you know there's a little like you know word on the street shit yeah but you know the weird thing about that one in particular is like you know when i hear that it's like well you know it it's not unusual do you know what i mean it's like okay so he fucks around a lot but you know i mean how when you're when you're a man who likes to have sex with people yeah and you you know you get to a certain place in life where you can do that more frequently how the fuck are you not going to do that? Yes. Because, you know, whether you want to be the type of adult that restrains himself or not, that's, you know, that's a lifestyle choice.

Yes. Yeah. That's, I agree with you. And that's okay. I think even negative things help me go forward. I'm like, because I also think it could be a lot worse. How, you know,

I think of the lucky side of it that I didn't have a, you know, I don't know, a string of children along the way or, you know, anything like that. So I'm, I'm actually fortunate in that,

that this is where it's at, that I'll, I'll take it since I brought that into my life. Right. Well, what's your hope ultimately in that area? I mean, do you mean do you do you find do you find intimacy as you experimented with it or try to access it do you find it that

rewarding i do in that a person who i can be intimate with is is a person who i don't have sex with which is say carrie brownstein i i find true intimacy there so I know that I have it I know that I'm not shut down a monster yeah I know that I I know that I can be myself right

also with my friends right and I think also you know through program stuff I know that I can there are ways that

every day I can try to have a better see the difference so today I don't have to worry about my phone or some stranger that I hooked up with. That for now, I can little by little, you know, I'm having a good day today. So you're learning how not to, you know, act out and use people in that way.

Yes. And it's hard. And it's hard. And it's hard. And I don't assume that it's a pill that tomorrow and everything goes away. It's the hardest one, dude. It's very, very hard. Look, I tell you, man. I went through a couple of those things.

And the weird thing about drugs and booze gambling you know you don't need those things food and sex kind of need it you do yeah and and like to sort of like to be in that position to determine your own bottom line around that shit how do you it's tricky dude and what's tricky also is booze is in certain places but people are just they're just everywhere so bars open all night all day long at you know every hotel every restaurant yeah and with celebrity comes a lot more access and i don't envy your struggle my friend even even no it's okay yeah because because here i am i'm not delus I am. I'm not delusional about it. I'm not delusional about myself.

Yeah. So the struggle, also, I can't help it. I can't, this struggle that I have, I don't have a choice. Yeah. This is the struggle. It could be a lot worse. Sure. I also could be dead.

Yeah. Yeah, there are worse things than having too much vagina options. Yes. More things and then having too much vagina options. Yes. I know. I think also that as long as I understand that there is a struggle, I think that's what most of it is. I think you're right. That's the part where I can, and I've had some really great days.

Yeah. So that's the part where everything else falls away because I know that I've had this much time thinking about myself. Right, right. And then also, when I talk to people like you and sometimes Natasha, just people in my life, they are also calming down. They're like, don't worry.

The thing about having the self-awareness and also having the support is that when you're in one of those situations where you're like, Oh, my God. I could so do this right now. Oh, yeah. And then you've got to like, I've got to make a phone call. Why is life like that?

Why? I'm about to go up to this room. There's also the other thing is when you get to do what you love to do you've got this confidence too you're sort of you're very much yourself sure you can you know you're like you're oh yeah man you know so full of the juice hey i'm you know i'm a comedy guy so what's the problem yeah yeah so that's even it's even worse you have a lot of confidence yeah but all that said i you know like people like eleanor going back to that i still am able to have good relationships with people yeah and with exes you know i think what happens also as you get older

is that you realize that you know that chaos you know you you actually have to do this the like an inventory of like is this worth it right and that that's just that's a mature decision yeah like this is you know you know what's going to happen. Well, the it is huge. The it is like, do you want, you know, some, you know, someone's boyfriend calling you? Do you want, you know, whatever. Right. You want to get killed. Do you want to get killed?

That's a real thing. That's a real thing. It's reality. So that's, you know. No. That's true. No. I like being alive. You know? So what's going you know. No. That's true. No. I like being alive.

You know? So what's going on with Portlandia? I'm flying back tonight. We're in our sixth season. Yeah, that's great. And, you know, we're on the same network. I love it. I think no matter what, I think it gets out there.

You know, IFC or not IFC, even through Netflix. IFC is very supportive. People seem to know it everywhere I go. So it's, um, it is my greatest joy. I mean, it's my greatest happiness in my life. Oh, that's great, man. And it's so funny. It looks so fun for you guys, you know, both of you. It's a dream. All right. Well, I'm glad, man. I'm glad you're living it and I'm glad you're taking care of the other stuff. Thanks. And you too. I mean, are you taking care of the other stuff thanks yeah buddy and you too i mean are you taking care of all here yeah yeah i'm in a i'm in a relationship now and i'm very aware of my sexual compulsion and my anger issues and so i you know i'm aware and i'm doing well with both of those i'm happy to hear that thanks man i'm in a relationship too and doing the same thing. It's like, you know. Good. We can do it.

We can do it. Yeah. Right? I just put my forehead up against the microphone. Nice talking to you. Thank you. That was an amazing conversation. I was nervous to interview Fred because I didn't think that I could get to know him.

And that was the most accessible he's been, and I've known him a long time, and I've had him on live WTFs. I enjoyed that conversation immensely. Go to WTFpod.com for all your WTF pod needs. Get on the mailing list. Do some things. Check my calendar.

I'm going to be in Australia in October. That would be good if you went to the Australian shows. I got the new kid here. It's fucking loud, dude. Thank you. Boomer Lips! and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats. But iced tea, ice cream, or just plain old ice? Yes, we deliver those. Goal tenders, no.

But chicken tenders, yes. Because those are groceries, and we deliver those too. Along with your favorite restaurant food, alcohol, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details.

It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton. The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5 p.m. in Rock City at torontorock.com.