WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 642 - Michaela Watkins

Episode Date: September 30, 2015

Actress Michaela Watkins is not only very funny, she can make you cry without warning, as Marc found out in the garage. Through laughter and tears, the two of them talk about the power of mime, very long engagements, stage acting, the Groundlings, Jill Soloway, and Michaela’s year at SNL that did not go as planned. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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is wtf this is my podcast welcome to it amazing guest today a woman who i love and adore and and and i'm amazed by mckayla watkins is on the show today the actress and hilarious person and i and i got choked up talking to her for no reason other than I was just talking to her. Broke my new car in by fucking the door up. Hasn't been a great week. I got to be honest with you. I know I sounded a little dismal on Monday. I feel a little better today.

You just have to take these. There's that sting of like, I'm an asshole. I mean, I've got this hybrid camry now and i don't always know when it's on so i parked in my driveway and i got out of the car and it started rolling backwards and the door was open and it got and the door snagged on a brick on my wall and i got into the car slammed on the brakes and pulled it back up and i fucking dented the door god damn it brand new fucking car it's covered with water spots now it's got a dent on the fucking door on the edge because i'm an idiot and it's just sort of like what's the fucking

point well i'll tell you what the point is i'll tell you the point right now that's the reason i bought a fucking toyota camry leased it even because you know what outside of the sting of realizing that my new car now was a little fucked up. The second thought was, it's just a fucking Camry. It's not a fucking BMW or goddamn dumb Mercedes. It's a fucking Camry because fucking Camrys kick ass. And if they take a hit, you're like, all right, there you go. That's the beginning of the breaking in process of my new Camry. And that's followed immediately by like, God damn it.

What the fuck is wrong with me? I don't know how to turn my own goddamn car off. Jesus, man. So after Francis McDormand won the Emmy for Olive Kitteridge, I'm like, I should watch Olive Kitteridge. I got locked into that. And I'd say for about, it's a dark bit of business, that thing.

It's beautifully acted, beautifully shot, beautifully written, if you're suicidal. If you're not a depressive, I'm not sure you'll enjoy it. But it's an amazing miniseries. The acting is incredible. That dude, is it Richardard jenkins right richard jenkins genius mcdormand was a genius is a genius in it bill murray's in it at the end there's other

great performances but man for the first for the first two episodes of that thing you know you definitely want to kill yourself and then something eases something eases in you it's quite an amazing character it's an amazing piece on the nature of life and and depression or is it depression or is it life or is it main a lot of questions man but it was worth watching i uh i definitely got off on it. I mean, she's just astounding. I need to talk to her. Hey, if you know Frances McDormand, tell her maybe we could have a conversation. Okay?

Please? I'm going to go to my girlfriend's big art opening. It's very exciting. Here's what's exciting, is if you're dating somebody and you fucking respect what they do that is an amazing feeling and and it's nothing that you can do that that is even better because then you can't use it when you're filling your resentment bag, which happens. I'm not saying you got to empty the bag. You should probably empty it into the garbage.

Man, you got to disarm that thing. Anyways, I'm getting off the point. The point is that my girlfriend Sarah Kane is a brilliant painter. And I'm excited to go look at her amazing paintings. Because I'm astounded by them. And I like her pretty well too. But the paintings. Joke.

Joke. She's got a sense of humor. but she takes everything very seriously at first speaking of love there's a different kind of love michaela watkins is uh one of the most hilarious actresses alive and she's starring in the new hulu original called uh casual which is executive produced by j Reitman, who's been on the show, who I saw at a party recently, not dropping names because I was like, it doesn't matter. The Casual premieres Wednesday, October 7th on Hulu. You might know her from Wet Hot American Summer. You might know her from like on Veep, on the goldbergs on transparent and speaking of transparent i just realized this that mikhail is absolutely amazing in it and i'm not sure i'd watched it

when we had this conversation i've since watched all of them and it's uh it's some of the most provocative original things i've ever seen anywhere in any medium I thought it was astounding. Amazing all around. But she was great in it. Go Google her face. Saturday Night Live, she did a season. Go Google her face. So before you listen, you can go, Oh, yeah. That woman.

That amazingly hilarious woman. Michaela Watkins. Here we are talking, me and her. It's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store

and ACAS Creative. and ACAS Creative. show your true heart just to risk your life when i die here you'll never leave japan alive fx's shogun a new original series streaming february 27th exclusively on disney plus 18 plus subscription required t's and c's apply tomorrow's my two-year two-year anniversary yeah that's how's it going it's so great it's better yeah i never thought i would ever ever be married really yeah i i just i was engaged for a super long time how How long? Years. What was the excuse that it didn't happen? Because I was in that situation and I ended up getting married.

My first marriage, I was engaged for like six years, seven years. Were you in your 20s? Oh, that's a good question. I think 20s, way 20s, early 30s. I think that's why we didn't was because I hit my mid-30s and I just, I think women particularly start to come apart. When? I feel like women break apart in their mid-30s and then they put themselves back together in new ways. I have a theory about it.

Don't you think like 23 is also a breaking apart period and then you come together and then you break apart again? How were your early 20s? Weren't they crazy? My early 20s are a blur because all I was doing was working. Like I was just, all I was doing was the grind. In my early 20s, I had like three jobs at a time and half of them involved serving drinks. And so I was in the bar rock club scene for most of my 20s and so i was just coming home at five in the morning and then i you know yeah chill out to tell it tubbies because that's what would be the only thing on tv i'm thinking a little weed too i yeah probably you

know but we didn't tell the tubbies it was just yeah i remember when i discovered tell it tubbies oh you're like how does any other adult know about this? The depth of what's going on here? I just felt like it had just been so much healing. Oh, good. You felt like you're on another planet, especially if you were high. You're like, what is, the whole pace of it was bizarre. It was.

And the landscape? I think that was the first show before like, before Netflix, before the stuff where they actually took time with the drama unfolding, the sun would rise and the sun would set. I always wanted to be, I always wanted to see that set. Like, I wanted to go to that set. Yeah. The Teletubby set. It was just like a golf course almost, wasn't it?

I don't know. It's probably just a bunch of, like, furry fetish people. Oh, yeah. You don't want to know what's inside the Teletubby., which is like a golf course almost, wasn't it? I don't know. It's probably just a bunch of like furry fetish people. Oh, yeah. You don't want to know what's inside the Teletubby. Yeah, you don't. They're just like, would you like to make love under the baby sun? Yeah. Let me put my head on.

So I always wonder about that, about the nature of commitment when you just sort of sit in that kind of engagement for like years. Because I knew for me, I guess it was easier to be engaged and actually take the step, but I eventually did. So you drove it? Yeah, I eventually said, well, I guess we're getting married. It's time. It's not the greatest proposal.

Wow, that is. Well, what happened with you guys? It was, we were, and still actually continue to be, weirdly, but not overnight, really good friends. We were just like buds. Right. We were kids in a clubhouse. Right. We were like this young, it was the first time I was in a relationship where I felt totally safe.

Yeah. You know? Yeah. And I think I liked that feeling so much that i wanted to marry it right the safety feeling i mean he's a great guy and he's just he's just we're not that's interesting i didn't understand i mean when we broke up when i when i ended that i thought i was going to die i mean you think being broken up with is the worst thing but breaking up with somebody who's a good person and you don't think that you have the right to to say no to someone who loves you unconditionally you you're like i'm

the worst person in the world i mean who do i think i am i'm so lucky to have somebody who's so you know supportive and in my corner but. But so you just sort of feel like you're taking this huge leap of faith to say, what, like, I think I can get better or deserve better, you know? And you're just like, you just feel like such a shitheel because, you know,

I don't come from that place of like, I deserve. I come from a place of usually of like, I'm lucky if. Exactly. Like, who would love me? Yeah, I know. You're making a big mistake, but if you want to ride it out.

I said that last night. I make a mean frittata. I said that. Here is my pillow talk last night. Well, you know, I guess, you know, you've chosen to put up with this. That's a declaration of love. You choose. Just put it on them.

Yeah, I'm trying the best I can. Yeah. You've decided to with this. That's a declaration of love. You choose. Just put it on them. Yeah, I'm trying the best I can. You've decided to tolerate this. So you were with that guy, but you're still friends with that guy. I am. Like I said, it didn't happen overnight. I mean, it definitely was a mutual. Was he an actor guy?

Is he an actor we know? No. And that's the issue is that he's such a colossal talent and i would always joke that you know he's the he's the artist and i'm the sellout because i was you know we're really starting to work at that point and he is just such a really and what's he doing now person he's working the same gig but um he's got a you know a nine-to-fiver. Yeah. But he creates these one-man shows that are just like stunning.

Great. Yeah, they're just jaw-dropping, but it hasn't, for some reason, it hasn't been seen by either the right people or what, I don't know, because everybody who comes to see him is just like, what do you do? He does these sort of pornographic pantomime

one-man shows. I'm in. With these sort of pornographic pantomime one-man shows. I'm in. With narratives. Pornographic pantomime? Yeah, it's like super, super. Sounds kind of specific. Yeah, I mean, it's like he'll act out an entire date gone awry. But it's just him.

Yeah, no words. Did he train in the French place? It's funny. Yeah, a little bit. I mean, he went to UW and that's what they do there. They do the French stuff. They do. The real mime stuff.

The Lukaki. Yeah. Yeah. So he's a pro. He's excellent. I think mime in general has a bad reputation. It gets dismissed a lot. It gets lumped in a-

In a street performer. In a Marcel Marceau kind of thing. Yeah. And people have not revisited it. Sounds like a good special though. I think Comedy Central should take a chance and do a mime special. Oh. An hour.

God. An hour mime special. Don't even think. But people get mad at mimes. It's not just that they don't care about it. It incites anger, I feel like. Mimes are getting hit all the time. You fuck. I get it. You're in getting hit all the time. You fuck.

I get it. You're in a box. I've had enough. It's a tough life for the mime. It is. Getting beat up on the street. It's going to be our next movement. That's when we know we've really run out of things to, you know, feel disenfranchised.

Right. But it is interesting, though, about the nature of show business and actually making a career in show business. It's not necessarily based on what anyone sees as talent or specific talent. It's sort of perseverance and delusion. And I think you have to have this thing inside of you, probably, that just says, I guess there's enough things telling me where I'm on the right track, but I'm going to kind of, I'm going to keep going with this. Whereas I don't know why I feel like it's, I feel like it's an energy shift with him or something. Like if he just moved it somewhere else, it would. Yeah. I mean, I think sometimes I think that,

but as I get older, I realized like, you know, I don't know what it is. And if there was a system. Well, as I get older, I realize I don't know anything about anything anymore. As I get older, I'm not even sure I want to do it anymore. Get older? No. Be a person? No, just like work. This.

I know. I was thinking about you so much thinking, God, like you've, you know, just feel like the 19th season of Happy Days for you. Like, after the president was here, you just, you know, I'm going to sit down with another person. Oh, no. No, it doesn't. It doesn't because, like, I get out of this what people get out of talking to people. You know, you get out of yourself. You're engaged.

It's interesting. New things happen. You know, like, you you know the president was compelling and exciting but uh you know i i like i like talking yeah you know because we don't do it a lot i know i love talking so you just connect but you're you've sort of become this very um go-to specifically like you you kind of play uh where you're, but you're kind of like... Sad? No, no, no. Pathetic?

A little mean. Oh, yeah. I do play a bitch a lot. Yeah. And why? I wouldn't say that. I don't know. I think I have a bitchy face or something.

I don't know what it is. No, it's because you can be funny doing it. I mean, it's not like... Calling it a bitch character is minimizing it. Because a lot of times, there's a lot of heart to it eventually. I think the last thing I watched with you in it was the Lake Bell movie. Oh, In a World? Yeah. Oh, I love that movie.

It's a great movie. Yeah. But you're a difficult character, but you end up being the good person and helping her out, right? I think that's where being a bitch comes from, isn't it? Yeah, and Enlightened you were great. Oh, such a bitch. Yeah, but you didn't redeem yourself. She was not enlightened.

No. Yeah. She was the opposite of enlightened, but such a classic sort of character, like just the worst kind of bad girl character. I think that's why I absolutely am drawn to that because I feel like I get to, you know, I feel like I'm channeling people who pissed me off and hurt my feelings so bad.

And I get to sit in their skin and just show the whole world what a fucking asshole they are. No, it's good. You're providing a service. It does feel cathartic sometimes, you know, especially. But a lot of times they don't always get their come up and so but i like to play through like when you say there's heart i like to play it through you know what i mean i guess like you know how alcoholics say play through the drink you know if you want that drink do you know i'm talking about i'd like to know it sounds like a

new one and i know most of them yeah um somebody said this to me once and and it's sort of you can you can use it for any anything that feels like a vice in your life. Play through the drink. So take the drink. And then imagine that great feeling. You're like, oh, I love drinks. And then you talk to everybody, and all of a sudden you're 10 times funnier than you were five minutes ago. And you're loose, and you feel good.

And then you get that second drink, and so on. And then next thing you know, you're throwing up. W showing up late for work and you lost a year of your life yeah and you slept with the ex again yes just bad still didn't work out and now you're living in your car and you're begging for money now you're revisiting mime exactly the drunk mime really you're taking breaking out your white gloves? Playing these characters, I think by being them, I sort of feel like you can play through. And when you find their heart, you realize, oh, this is, it's like, it's making a wrong right for me in a weird way. Like, oh, this is why they're a bitch. Because they're insecure or they're empty or they don't like their life.

They made bad decisions. And they made them from the wrong place and now they're right examining that whatever dumping it on everybody else yeah and so it's sort of then you feel compassion for this character and then it's then you set it free so what do most people recognize you for though like when you're out in the world? Because are you one of those people that are like, wait, you're... You're... We went to... How do I...

You're... Are you Jack's ex-girlfriend? I get that a lot. I get, are you somebody's ex-girlfriend? Like, doesn't she remind you of Larry's ex-girlfriend? Yeah. He's a friend of ours. And every time, every time I get that, they always punctuate it with, she was crazy.

And meanwhile, they're just erasing all your accomplishments by not being able to really place you. I think I appear, you know, recur in a lot of shows that people see. But, you know, other than the show I'm doing now, not the main event event and so i'm in the back of their well you work a lot i work a lot and i think that's the thing is that they see me but they think they know me but they can't because i can't say that one thing but but you know it depends on who it is like if they have kids i know they recognize me from trophy wife if they don't they maybe from Transparent or Indie stuff. Right. And then, you know.

SNL? SNL, Gay Men. Gay Men. Yeah, I did a character on there that somehow resonated. Which one? With the homosexual population. Which character? She played Angie Tempura.

She played like a really bitchy blogger who is like a basement dweller well how okay so where were you um where were you invented where'd you where were you syracuse new york really yeah and i have to be nice to syracuse because i've every time i say syracuse i had this like response to say yeah that's total shithole dump armpit. Don't do that. In the age of the internet, you can get a lot of flack. But what I realized, because I just went back there a few weeks ago. I'm trying. I lived there when I was a very young little kid for like a year.

I think my dad was. You did? Yeah. I think he was a resident there or maybe even earlier, just out of medical school. We were there. And there's just pictures of me in snow. That's what my dad would always say is like, don't knock it.

We have a wonderful medical center. Yeah. But that's what I remember is snow, divorce, gawkiness, a period at a very inopportune time. It doesn't sound like you can hang any of those on an actual city. Well, I mean, we had a mall

that felt kind of, kind of molesty. Oh yeah? Yeah. The Molesty Mall, was it called that? You know what I mean? It was like,

it was the 80s and you know, late 70s, 80s. And so, I think molestation was super in at the time. Oh really?

It just felt like every time people, it just felt like because there's not the helicopter parenting thing and because I was a latchkey kid and all that kind of stuff, it just felt like every time people, it just felt like because there's not the helicopter parenting thing and because I was a latchkey kid and all that kind of stuff, it just felt like there was this constant, just paralyzing fear. Right. Because I was walking by myself. Like older kids usually or like old men? Older kids or people in cars that would just grab me off the street and shove me in a car.

Did that happen? No. Not that I know of. Unless I'm suppressing something major. But it was always a fear. It was a constant fear because I think I spent so much time alone at such a young age. Where were your parents? The club.

No. The club. My parents split when I was eight. And my mom was a Latin teacher and then she... Do you speak Latin? No, I do not. Much to her chagrin. Not a lot of Latin in the house? Not...

We only know how to conquer cities in our house. And make proclamations. And read Catholic texts. Exactly. She's like, I can't raise three daughters on a Latin teacher salary. Yeah. What was your dad doing?

He's a mathematician at Syracuse. Still? Yeah, actually. A mathematician. He just retired, but he still does, he has research. Can I just take

a couple shots in the dark? Was he emotionally shut down and unavailable? Real dark shot you took. Funny enough, now that I'm older, this is interesting, but now that i'm older and i look back at them he actually yes i mean was he shut down i don't know if shut down he was just you

know he had a math brain yeah and and and it was a little spectrumy yeah but i feel like the divorce fired him into more of an emotionally available place oh yeah even if he was out of touch with necessarily wasn't necessarily in touch with you know the having what he says when it's reflected in somebody else's face as they don't like it as understanding like oh i might have said something they didn't like he it but at least he was you know introspective right so he he wasn't great at empathy no but but but now he's a little more self-aware now he's he's very self-aware in fact i think it triggered this thing that maybe i don't know if men even did but he really started to talk about like i'm like this

and i do this and my tendency is that. And then when he met his wife. The new one. The new one. That's all they did for years was just say, we're like this. And when I did that, and they just love to talk about how they came to do things. So they were completely self-aware, sort of selfish people that talked about it to each other.

I think they were just a little self-obsessed with the fact that for the first time they were discovering human behavior. Was she another mathematician? No. Oh. No. So your mom, all right, so you're in Syracuse. You're avoiding molesters.

Your parents got- Just like a full-time job in my mind. Yeah. I mean, it's weird. I've never even said this out loud before, but I can't believe how much real estate it took up in my in my life the fear of being uh taken taken abducted um followed wow you know yeah just because because i did i spent so much time alone my mom went back to school so she was working during the day and

going to school at night and uh it was it was uh it, it became a sad time. You know, I think of Syracuse as a sad place, but I did just go back there. And I, what I, what I really realized through my adult eyes was how beautiful it is. I mean, I took for granted that everybody had rolling farms and hills and sheep and cows. And I was just like, more farms. You know, and now I see, oh, this is what my parents probably thought. This was pretty cool. It's pretty.

Yeah. Well, now your sisters are older? Mm-hmm. Yeah. So you were the youngest one. Yeah. And they're six and a half and eight years old. Why did I have to do a follow-up question?

I don't know. Your dad wasn't a mathematician, clearly. How big of an age difference? Six and a half and eight years really yeah between between me like so you were really they're a year and a half apart and then and then you were the whoops no i was save the marriage baby uh didn't so they were already teenagers already i failed like right out of the gate but so they were they were sort of on to their own lives

so you really left you they didn't weren't they protective weren't they no they were totally on to their own lives they couldn't wait to i mean because they were more sailing you know they understood that my parents yeah hated each other before i did because i just thought i thought that was stasis i thought that's like all parents parents hate each other. But they had known my parents at a happy time and then saw it go bad. Oh, disintegrate. So they just tapped out. They were like, my sister, Becca, was like, I'm going to go smoke pot and go date. Yeah.

Ended up dating, actually, John Fishman, the drummer from Fish. Oh, really? Yeah. Before he was big, I guess. Before he was. His dad was my orthodontist. Really? Yeah.

The drummer from Fish's dad was your orthodontist and he did your teeth? Yeah, Dr. Fishman. Oh. Yeah. That's a good trivia. Yeah. And both your folks are still around? Mm-hmm.

So where'd you end up going? Barely. No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. But you didn't grow up in Syracuse? So I did. I lived there until I was 14. And then my dad went on sabbatical for a year in Paris and I went with him and lived there. And then I came back and my mom said, I got a job in Boston. You coming? And I said, uh-huh. Boston. Get me out of here. Yeah. And when did the acting start? And the acting started when my mother said,

when I was visiting my dad in Syracuse, I came home and she picked me up at the train station or airport or something, whatever. And she said, we were driving back to the apartment and she said, I got you, I signed you up for an audition at the community playhouse here. In Boston? Yeah, in Wellesley, Massachusetts, actually. Wellesley, a little further, like a half hour out.

Yeah, and she said, so put up or shut up. Because I kind of had... You talked about it. Yeah, I talked about it. I kind of had... You talked about it. Yeah, I talked about it. And I had a grandmother who, you know, she got married when she was 17, but she always said, I could have been a great actress.

So I think she... Planted it? Yeah. You were going to do it for her? I'm doing it for you, Grandma. Whose mother? I never really knew her. My dad's mother.

She was apparently a great beauty. But I actually have some of her portfolios of when she took acting classes, and it was silent film era. Really? Yeah, so it's all about how to hold your mouth when you're surprised. Really? Yeah, put your hand to your chest and make your mouth a half circle. These are classes she took? I'm scared.

Yeah. And she was in Syracuse? And I have all her notes. No, she was in New York, Philly. Oh, really? Yeah. So that was the dream, to be a silent film star? Mm-hmm.

Those notes are amazing. Yeah. Like a whole book of them? A whole book of them. Oh, my God. I know. How to audition for silent films. When that mime thing comes back, it's going to be a real relic.

I mean, it feels like you should do some sort of like fun video thing with just doing those exercises just reading from her notes for people who what suffered a head injury no for just for for for yucks so you what play did you end up did you get into play i did i got it i played. I played Ida the maid. Ida the maid. I'm Ida. I'm the maid. You remember the play? Yeah.

I'm Ida. I'm the maid. Like she has to say who she is. Yeah. It's not enough that she's holding a tray. What play was that? I'm the maid. I think it sounds like you could do that role again.

What play was that? I would love to reprise it. It was called See How They Run. It was a British farce. Because I was Ida the maid. And you did the accent and everything? Yeah. I watched Oliver.

I knew how it went. And that gave you the bug? That was it? That was it. You got some laughs? Yes. That's usually how it goes right yeah well that laughs feel those laughs well it was working you know it was it was on a it was on a big level now because you know usually it was just like you guys are getting a divorce look at me i'll do this you know yeah and uh so i would entertain my family. Right. Because they're not funny.

My family, I think they would say we're not, they would say we're not funny. My dad's a little funny. He's pretty witty. So you were the show person? You were the person that was like, come on, you guys. Yeah.

Everything's okay. Yeah. The performance starts in seven minutes in the living room. You did that? Yeah. Ah, can you reprise any of those roles? Well, I probably, you know, it's funny. You did that? Yeah. Ah. Can you reprise any of those roles? Well, I probably, you know, it's funny.

You know how kids play princesses and like really fantastical, wonderful, beautiful people? Yeah. My performance, we had this brunette like curly wig in our house for some reason. I think it was some relatives who had it. Yeah. And somehow we were cleaning out their stuff. We procured it. Yeah. So my character was, I'm, what was her name?

Oh, Consuelos, the put-upon maid. Uh-huh. You like maids. And so. This was your wheelhouse. So it was just me in an apron with this wig on. And I would come out and in a really surly mean way take everybody's order. Yeah.

And then go in the kitchen and bang pots around and scream and yell at people that weren't there. Yeah. And then come back out with like... Smiling. Smiling and plop a plate down. And that was my bit that I would do for the family. They thought it was hysterical. It's pretty funny.

Yeah. Like as a pitch, it's funny. Yeah. And I'd come out with a plate and a mop in my hand. Right, right. Here. Here. And I had my props.

Yeah. Like I get a kick out of it hearing about it. I think it's viable. Yeah. I mean, yeah. I think you could just call it that, the show. Consuela, the put-upon maid. The put-upon maid.

What maid is not put-upon? Starring Michaela Watkins and 17 pots. So, all right. So you're in Wellesley, which is nice. The school's there. That was weird. That was like culture shock, going from Syracuse to Wellesley. Yeah.

I've been to that town. I think I went out there for a party once. That was like culture shock going from Syracuse to Wellesley. Yeah, I've been to that town. I think I went out there for a party once when I was in college. For the Wellesley girls? Yeah, smart women. It's a good school. I don't remember what happened at the party. But it doesn't matter. Did you have to keep one foot on the floor at all times?

Yeah, maybe. I don't, I remember it was sort of weird. Oh, she had a sweater. That's all I got. That I got off her. i don't think i got it off her but i remember it was a big sweater so a lot of sweater i can't i can't put it all together but i knew i was very impressed with the idea that she was at wellesley because i was bu which you're always you too get the fuck out of here i'm serious serious. Yeah. You were BU. Like, BU is like a good school.

Not really. It's a good school. It's like, if you pay to get, you know, your parents can afford to send you there, then it's good. But, like, you're always, there's this sort of, like, BU. I know. You're just surrounded by better schools. I know.

And then the whole institution had, like, an inferiority complex. And they had this weird fascist president. President Silber. Silber who like. He didn't want anybody to fornicate ever again. Yeah, but also he just kept buying property through the college and just amassing academics and stuff to compete with the ivory leagues. Well, when I got there, it was the first year they implemented, you know, you couldn't just go to somebody's dorm without, you know, you can just show an id and i couldn't go visit you in your dorm yeah you had to you could only visit people who who had your sticker you know right so if you didn't if you weren't already in the dorm

it was really hard to get people into the dorm and this was to stop fornication yeah huh yeah that couldn't have worked no no they you find a way yeah place if you have a sharpie you just change the letter yeah yeah so so you okay so after the community playhousing then you start serious about it um then i i did like a summer institute at bu where um you go for the summer and and go to it's a theater conservatory. And so you get kind of a taste of it. I'll be honest with you. I was so aimless then.

I was so, I didn't know what I wanted. I didn't, I mean. Yeah. Do you now? Yeah. Okay. And that's what's weird is that it's at a time where I don't know. I mean. Sure.

I went to college. I was just sort of like, what can I put together as a major? Yeah. And how can, my SAT scores were such garbage that I, the fact that I got to audition to go to BU instead of my grades being the reason I got in was 98% of the reason why I probably went there. Between me and you, I didn't even take SATs. Really? I took something else called the ACTs. Oh yeah. I remember the ACTs. Right. I took ACTs, went to a small college that wasn't very, you know, if you had money, you can go. Curry College in Milton.

Right. Because the only thing I got accepted to at BU when I applied first was the College of Basic Studies. Yeah. CBS. Right. The coloring book school. I know.

So I was like, can't do that. You know, I can't do it. So I went to Curry and then I transferred. Can't bribe silver. Remember when that was the... No. Couldn't bribe silver. Oh, is that?

Oh, really? That's clever. So yeah, so that's what I did. And I transferred in sophomore year. But I was the same way. Had no fucking idea. Creative people sometimes, they're just sort of like, well, I don't have a career in mind. I'm not very disciplined.

Like there's a million things you could go learn that might help you in the future. Yeah. And they were all, you know, luckily because my dad taught at Syracuse, I could go there for free. So I did my junior year abroad and I went to Italy and England and I got, like I said, I got to go for free and it was, that's what expanded my mind. Like I said, I got to go for free. And that's what expanded my mind.

And then I came back for my senior year of theater school. And I was like, oh, all of a sudden, literature actually is interesting to me. That's what blew your mind? Well, I had to expand. I mean, what the fuck did I know about love, loss, hatred, envy, all those things. It was just, I was just, I was barely coming together as a human person. I mean, I spent all of high school people pleasing. And then here I was in college suddenly supposed to access deep emotions and doing Euripides and Sophocles and all these inaccessible, you know, things to begin with. inaccessible you know things to begin with and it's just such a you know all these 20 year olds like holding spears and in saying these life or death uh you know proclamations and you're going

this is all bullshit yeah i don't believe you i don't believe any of you all we're trying to do is get you know it's what's funny is that in my class at BU, you know, we started out as 70. At the School of Fine Arts. At the School of Fine Arts. Which is a good acting school. It is. Yeah. I don't know if it is now.

It certainly was then. It was when I was there. Yeah. But I don't know. I saw a list. It wasn't even on it. Of the best acting schools. It wasn't even in the top 20.

But maybe it's because they've changed their curriculum since. When I was there, they first started something called theater studies. Because before it was a conservatory. And so after your second year, you would either be cut or you would continue on. I got cut. I was cut from the theater school. Okay. So you go in as a sophomore, right? No, you go in as a, you do all four years. You were a freshman at BU. Yeah, you can barely spell your name by the time you graduate theater school because you only take one course

outside of theater a semester. So, you know, I took an English course, but here and there. Right. I accidentally, this is a true story. I was sitting in an English class and this is what a fuck up I was, but I was sitting in an English class, and this is what a fuck up I was, but I was sitting in an English class

and realized about the third class in that I was in English as a second language. Third class. Instead of reading Madame Bovary, we had these handout pamphlets. Just excerpts from Madame Bovary. That must have been a good moment. But I look around and I was like, wow, you know, B was really, I love how it's just international and, you know, what a, like, beautiful little, you know, hotbed of mixed cultures.

Wait, what the fuck? I'm the only one here without an accent. Did you stay the whole course? Totally. Sailed. A plus. First day I ever got yeah yeah good for you thank you where'd you tell them you were from syracuse syracuse greece there is a syracuse there is yeah all right so you're there you're doing your 20 year old versions of uh greek uh tragedies and comedies and Yeah. And you go to Italy and England and your mind gets blown. My mind gets blown.

It just, you know. International love affair. International love affair-ish. Yeah. I don't know. Just feeling more like there's more layers to a person than the small world that I had been growing up in. And then by the time, I just wasn't a good actress then. I wouldn't even say I wasn't good.

I was just going to say I wasn't an evolved person yet. Right. And I was so- Is anybody that gifted? But there were other people in my class who seemed like they had it handled. Yeah? Yeah. They could just access it?

Yeah. And the funny thing is the people that I'm sort of thinking of aren't acting now. Right. So I was in it for the long game, I think is what it was. Well, it's interesting. I think a lot of people, and I've grown to not so much respect them, but appreciate their decision. not so much respect them but appreciate their their decision like i think some people kind of get out and you know they pursue it for a little while and they realize like no this this ain't gonna go anywhere they understand their limitations and the nature of the business and they're like

i better or maybe they just you know they're just they're more evolved and they blow their little i need to act and well yeah people watch me wad early on. And then just say, I don't need that. It doesn't get. Right. And they become therapists or massage people. Yeah. Yoga instructors. Real turds.

Racists. They become racists. Professional racists. So you went the whole four years at SFA? Yeah. Well, three, because I took that one year abroad. Right. And then you graduate and you're ready to act.

It's like, there you go. Go to New York. And the only thing they sent us off with was make sure your headshot is the same size as your resume. Don't let the paper, you know, like don't let the flap. Yeah. Because it's going to jam. We had a casting director say, you jam my files when you do that. That's what you earned.

That was the most practical advice? If I see a resume that's bigger than a headshot, in the trash it goes. Did she come in and speak to your class? She did. We went to New York, you know, and we sort of got to step foot into the biz. They brought you down there. Meet industry professionals to do that, yeah. And I was like, wow, that's a takeaway.

Yeah. Get a glue stick and a pair wow, that's a takeaway. Yeah. Get a glue stick and a pair of scissors. That's what you learned. And you too will join the ranks. And then what were your special skills on your first resume? Oh, God. It was like stage combat. Oh, yeah.

Piano. Can you play? Uh-huh. Pretty good? Yeah. Yeah. I used to. Yeah. I used to. Yeah.

And not anymore. But I don't know. I think I lied about 12 other things. Stage combat. Yeah. Did you have that class? I speak French. Sure.

That kind of thing. Yeah. Did you do stage combat? I did. I got my nose broken in stage combat. Really? Over the head foot throw. Knee came down right on my nose.

Someone else's knee. Yeah nose someone else's knee yeah someone else's knee and and it broke yeah that must have been an exciting day at acting school didn't displace i was like this is when they put it back together in a really awesome way because i had my sister she ran into a parking meter literally ran into a parking meter and you know she's shorter than me so it it's just right. And it knocked her out. She came out of the hospital, perfect nose. Because the doctor's like,

I don't know, she's passed out. I'm just going to do what I think is nice. You want us to de-Jew it? We take the Jew right out of that nose. We got a Jew-be-gone nose.

Yeah. So, no. So they're just like, your nose is going to stay Jew-y, if not Jew-ier. But you could be Italian, I've decided. Yeah. And I speak Italian now. You do?

Well, yeah, because I did that semester there. Really? Yeah. And then I worked in Italian restaurants for a really long time. So, you could, did you correct people when they'd order? You don't want that. You want this. No, no.

I mean, like, say it properly. Yeah. No, I think it was confusing because I would say, you know, can I help you? Would you like the tagliatelle? Con porcini? Va bene, allora, ciao. And so. They're like, what?

Yeah. Did they point this? Yeah. Yeah. Actually, what? Yeah. They point this. Yeah. Yeah. Actually, it's funny. I, um, I used to, when I moved here, I, I, uh, I worked at this place in Brentwood, this really beautiful, wonderful Italian restaurant. And I'm one of those dorks that I, I, I get really prideful about my job.

Like I actually, if I like it, you know, if the product is good, I like it. I like to sell people the food because I think it tastes so good. So I was, I liked that job. I don't know. It took me, they told me to quit. Like they were just like, you are, you're a working actress. Time for you to leave. I was like, but maybe one night a week I come in and we taste wine. It'll be fine. Great. And they said, no, it's time for you to leave. You're too good. I was like, but maybe one night a week I come in and we taste wine.

It'll be fine. Great. And they said, no, it's time. You move on. Really? Little bird's got to fly. But yeah, I dug it. And I don't know why.

I liked it. I liked serving people. It's weird. I liked seeing them happy and eating. That's a rare waitress story. And helping them do that. I know. Isn't that bizarre?

Yeah. Warm memories about waitressing. And all I deal with in this town are just a bunch of nasty, bitchy asshole waiters all the time. Yeah. And I'm like, man, I was such a nice waiter. Yeah. Such a nice waiter.

Maybe she'd start a clinic of some kind. Maybe. I just, I don't know. I just want to, I feel like i want to pull them aside and say look you know you're fortifying people that's got to make you feel good that's so stupid i don't really feel that way but uh no but i did like that job and uh but i would wait all the time on all these you know execs around town and everything and just like a couple months ago i was on the set of my show and the head of the new show yeah what's it called it's called casual and you're the star what's it about it's uh about a brother and a sister so there's another star um there's tommy dewey who plays my brother and it's uh they're they have serious intimacy issues and they're kind of, she's at the sort of bottom part of her life.

Kind of when I talked about my shit bucket time. Yeah. She's there. Uh-huh. And they're really screwed. They've sort of screwed up their lives because they had horrible role models because their parents were messed up too. It's about as dysfunctional. And it's on hulu

yeah it will be yeah full series how many how many eps uh 10 really doing 10 for hulu it's good yeah jason reitman directed the first two it's a good kid yeah he's uh incredible director yeah i like him i've had him in here yeah yeah yeah focus. He's a focused guy. He's intense, but he's not, he's no slouch. I mean, that guy knows his shit. He's got pedigree. He's got pedigree, but I don't know. I mean, he's a real student of film. Yeah, no, he's a very bright guy.

Yeah, he's not. Like, I had him and his dad the same week in here. Oh. Yeah, it's kind of interesting. I actually feel like you told me that. It's interesting, yeah. Yeah, it's not nepotism for him no no no it's uh he really is the real deal what makes a difference when you're working

with a director i mean what makes you say that you've worked with a lot of people awesome directors and i will say i like to joke that jason's my favorite male director uh-huh uh as you know there's sort of a shortage of female directors, but I feel like I've gotten to work with three of some of the best. Female directors? Yeah. Jill? Jill Soloway.

I would think you'd work more with her. I feel like you guys should be friends. I work with her constantly. You do? Yeah, she's one of my best friends. Oh, good, good. I'm going to be like, you and Jill should really, you live near each other? We do.

Yeah. Yeah. When I met her, she just looked at me and she goes, are you Jewish? I was like, ish. Yeah. Because I didn't really identify as Jewish. Yeah. And I love saying I didn't identify as Jewish.

Sure. But I didn't. But people identified you as Jewish. But you didn't identify't they couldn't tell what i was people look at me they can't really tell and i wasn't i wasn't i didn't i didn't wasn't like i'm a jew yeah i it wasn't until later till actually jill brought out my jew and she goes are you funny which is the worst yeah question anybody can ask you yeah because anybody who's like oh god i always just want to hug somebody when they're like i mean i'm funny i'm like no you're not just by that alone so i she said are you funny and i

was like i don't know i don't know no probably not and she's like you are you're funny i can tell and so then she said this is the first second of meeting her then she said i think you're my muse this is the first second of meeting her then she said I think you're my muse and she wasn't wrong I mean we then I would sit in her living room you know we would drink or smoke and I would tell her stupid

ideas and she'd say that's funny I want to shoot that and so we started doing these funny or die things and then she did her short film and then you know and then after Delight and then Transparent. So you were there for the big Jill Soloway explosion. For the director 2.0. Yeah.

Yeah. It's just crazy. Okay. I'm going to tell you a story. That's going to just. All right. I don't know if this has ever. This has never happened on any set I've ever been in.

So the episode I was in was in a flashback at a cross dressing camp. I don't know if you saw it, but Bradley Whitford and Jeffrey Tambor, it's like set in the mid to early 90s. And they go to this camp that actually existed. And so they had all this background, people, in drag. And I don't know if they were picked because they're transgendered or if they're, I don't know if they just had good faces they thought they will look good uh in as feminine and so but either way it was just you know the

whole place was filled up with all everybody and they looked great the background so normally when you're on sets you know the background is just sort of barked at and told what to do and they kind of pantomime really badly and it it always sticks out weird, and you're watching the edit going, good God, why? What's that guy doing? He's doing it again. And that's really what I want when I watch TV, which is very rarely. It's exactly, all I do is watch. Because everybody, every time you see background actors, they're always, they're never going, no.

They're always agreeing. They're always at a restaurant going, oh, yeah. Oh, uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, right. Yeah.

Uh-huh. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. They're never back there going, no. No. Standing up and walking out. Yeah. I don't think so.

Arms crossed going, no. So it was like, how agreeable that guy is oh yeah uh-huh all right okay uh-huh yeah yeah so uh so she comes out they said the director wants to talk to everybody so she comes out she says you know everybody two years ago my mom my um my mapa my my father came out as uh trans and i'm making this show to make the world a safer place for him. And we're making art and there is no running out of time and there is no running out of light and there is no action and there is no cut. And there are none of those violent words, those male filmmaking words. There's none of that here.

Here, there is only connection. We're timeless. When I look at paintings, I always look at the crowds. It's my favorite part. And when I watch films, she says, my eye always goes to the sea of artists that are populating the background because that's the world that you guys are building. And then she says, you guys are moving art. And then she wheels in a giant TV and plays clips that she had edited together of Italian films where the camera just moves to the background of these people at a party and just these crazy, interesting faces and everything like that. And then they give the background gives her a standing ovation because it's the first time they've been talked to like they're human people, probably. And then she says, OK, just start walking around. You know, why are you here? How many years have you been here? Who do you know?

Like, is that your cis wife? Is that your, did you bring your wife? Can you bring your wife? Is your wife cool with it? Is that person, how long have you been trans? Are you transitioning? Are you in hormone therapy? Like, has that not happened yet?

Are you, you know, how do you feel about the food? Everything. Do you know the caterers? Who's that waiter? Is that your friend? You know, are you embarrassed by them? Blah, blah, blah. Are you shy? And everybody started moving around this big giant, you know, hundred person improv that was happening. And without ever saying action, the cameras just started to permeate the crowd. And after, you know, four days of shooting in this manner everybody by the time they got to the

big party scene everybody was just leaving it on the floor to the degree that she said does anybody she had this idea that she wanted to have a choreographed dance where jeffrey tamper would emerge out of it well she took she said who who here knows how to choreograph or anything? And one woman was like, I do. And I'm a dancer. So she, a trans woman, raised her hand and brought everybody out. 50 people. She grabbed 50 people, went outside, and then we shot, kept shooting. And then an hour later, they come back in and execute a perfect dance.

And then Jeffrey emerges out of it. I mean, people were just sweating and crying and hugging. And everybody looked drunk. And everybody looked like they'd just been parting their faces off. And she got it. I mean, but they also were part of it. And it felt so, so empowered. I was so impressed with that.

Were you in that scene? Mm-hmm. So that sounds like one of those kind of most amazing moments of your creative career in a way. It's definitely, you know, I think you pick up along the way things that you would take for yourself and use when you do it. you know, take for yourself and use when you do it. It sounds completely unique and embracing and creative in a way that you don't really hear about, that she knew exactly what she was looking for and how she went about it was in a very sort of collective way.

Yeah, and it's how she, it's just, it's not, she's not ego-driven, you know. She didn't do it because she needed to be revered. That's how she does every single scene, whether it's with two people or 200 people. She just like horse whispers you before it. And then you shoot it and you're operating from just this other place. It sounds like honest, authentic collaboration. Yeah.

And it's unlike anything I've seen before so she's a real visionary you know yeah well i mean you come do you you've done improv though i mean to appreciate but to to to sort of see it as an improvisation on that level and she embraces my improvisation i mean i think that's that's what it is she doesn't you know even though she's a writer she's like this script is just a roadmap. Throw it out. You know what happens in it. Just you do it. But it's interesting because I think a lot of people associate improv specifically with comedy, you know, and I think there's a whole other area of improvised theater that has nothing to do with comedy necessarily.

Right. I know. And it's actually more interesting to me. Oh, of course. Why wouldn't it be? It's just one of those things where it's like the name, the word, it's like, we're going to improv now. Can we get a profession?

You know, like, or even... We're going to play a bunch of archetypes. Right. Like, I'm a coach. But even with a herald, you know, with a good one, I mean, that thing, they can run the gamut, the sort of higher level, more, you know, sort of stripped down improv exercises that aren't party games. You know, there can be a lot of emotional stuff in there, but it's still a context. It's still like Second City.

It's still, you know, Groundlings or whatever. But Groundlings, you were in that? Yeah. But that's mostly Sketch, isn't it? It's both. I mean, it's certainly both. in that yeah but that's mostly that's mostly sketch isn't it it's both i mean it's certainly both but to get to sketch you have to learn to improv because obviously that's where you start to write from is that where you learned how to act i feel like i honestly i kind of feel like it is

it's just for me act learning to act was to do not to go to school and and and break it down into its like different parts although i understand now like i said as an adult i understand why they teach it that way but i didn't have the brain capacity for that you you can only break it down once you've been out there doing it a little bit and realize oh how does this part work with this part i mean it it imagine if somebody gave you all the parts of a car but not a car right they're just like talk about like this is this with this part. I mean, imagine if somebody gave you all the parts of a car, but not a car. Right. They're just like, talk about like, this is this and this is that. And you're like, I can't even conceptualize what this is until I've been driving a car

for a while and go, oh, that's what makes that sound. You know? Well, it's interesting to me that I talk to actors a lot and it's difficult when it comes down to, you know, how did you, what's your craft? Because, you know, a lot of acting is just a natural thing in a way. You know, either you have an act for it or you don't. And a lot of people don't do a lot of training. And a lot of people don't necessarily have a lot of range.

I mean, there are people that are like, you know, meticulously trained actors that work all the way from, you know, work from the outside in and know all those tricks, stage actors mostly. But then there are people that are just sort of organic that everyone's going to come to it, how they're going to come to it. Yeah. And I think that was the other thing is that when I was at BU and,

you know, like I said, I understand why they do what they do now, but at the time it just wasn't a fit for me because they really, what they wanted to do was beat out my instincts and replace it with technique. And what has been my way into this field has been my instincts.

But also, it seems to me that if I look at just your resume, I don't know what happened directly after BU or what the struggle was. I mean, where did you end up? God, I ended up in Portland, Oregon for five years. And I guess- Oh, my God. I would say that's where I really learned to act. Because then I was just doing, like I said, I was bartending at rock clubs or I was doing

theater. And I was doing a ton of theater. And it was theater for theater's sake in a way. Yeah. The stakes weren't necessarily high other than doing the show. They were high because people go to see it there. Sure. Unlike here.

But it was honest. Yeah. Right? Yeah. You knew you weren't going to make your break out of Portland. I was still kind of drinking the Kool-Aid that I was going to be like a classically trained actress. Even though, because I was doing a lot of Shakespeare and whatnot there, but it just never was, it just never, it was never the match, you know?

Right. And I remember sitting backstage during Winter's Tale and I just looked up and I said to everybody, I'm going to move to Los Angeles and go be on a sitcom. And they were like, why would you do that? First of all, LA is gross. We're doing Shakespeare. Sitcom is bad. That's like hack.

It's cheese. It's crap. And I'm like, no, that's going to be my way. I like it. I like, I understand it. I understand that language more than this one uh-huh and it but it was part of you like realizing that there was a career there possibly i i just knew probably much like grandma esther mama mester that if i didn't find out i was going

to regret it my whole life and when'd you move down here in Uh-huh. And what were the first roles? Commercials. Uh-huh. It was all commercials at first. And then my first role was on Charmed. Uh-huh. Or as I called it, my friend and I called it Tits with Witches. Were you excited?

I was so excited. I was so excited. And then I read my first comment about it and it said that woman looks like ruth bader ginsburg well it's not it's not i guess it's not a horrible thing to say other than she's 50 years older if they said that woman is as smart as that would have been one thing or maybe ruth bader ginsburg when she was 25 yeah but they did they left that part out yeah well you don't want comments i hope you learned that well of course and then it then it just sort of started after charmed and you just uh so then showing up i mean then i did gray's anatomy this is all in part thanks to my friend krista vernoff who

uh wrote on both those shows and got me an audition um and then and i went to college with her there's something bu gave me kropher enough that's nice uh and um and then i just at groundlings is when i got made my snl uh who was with you at groundlings connection kristin had just left for snl when i came into groundlings when i joined the main company so jim rash netfax and actually melissa actually Melissa McCarthy was there. Good crew. Steve Little. Yeah, it was great. Great people.

You laugh a lot. Stephanie Courtney. Laugh, it's my happy place. I mean, it's just, it's so, I did stand up for a little when I was waiting for the next level at Growlings. And while I loved it and there wasn't anything that deterred me from it other than the fact that I found it a very lonely art. But I like to collaborate. I like to be with other people. I really, I really, I just really love them. It's just, I have such a huge place in my heart for the groundlings because

it was so much laughter do you go back do you work out i do i go and do improv shows there a bunch but i i just and whenever i'm back in that room i just feel like i'm in the womb again you know because it's just it's just you get it i mean it's just it's it's people who can insult you But I mean, it's people who can insult you horribly, and it's the best. It's like the best sounding insult because it's so good. It's such a good one. That's sweet. So when you get pulled up to the big leagues, how did that unfold, the SNL story? So it was a two-part story.

It was a two-part story. it was a two-part story i went i i submitted a tape and and i went uh and then i got called to go test there with uh a few other groundlings mikey day rm price uh edie patterson and we we all went and you know i felt like it went well as well as it could yeah and uh and then it didn't happen i think they hired casey wilson that year and so then a year later were you heartbroken no i was like i just wanted to be asked to the prom i didn't have to actually go i just wanted somebody to be like i just wanted i just wanted somebody to want me to go right um and that was enough you know did you meet lauren then or And that was enough. Did you meet Warren then?

I saw him on the other side of a room. Then a year later, I was at the bank machine. I was at the Chase Bank in Burbank. And I get a call saying, they want to fly you to test again tomorrow. Tomorrow? I had 24 hours notice. I was like, what? And they said, yeah, they just want to I knew I was hearing about people going again and it always whenever you hear about people going you

sort of feel like that wistful like oh that's so exciting and yeah and they might get it you know like they might get it right and uh and then I so I didn't I didn't have a all new material you know I mean it'd been a year but it's not like I was out there creating characters all year. So I had 24 hours to pull them together, too. And even if you have characters, what are you going to say? What part? I can't do a five-minute sketch for each character. So I don't do impressions.

I mean, I do, but I guess I do, but that's not what we do at Growlings. We're not an impression theater. It's all original. So I was totally freaked out. But it was the best gift. Because if they gave me two weeks to prepare like they did everybody else, I would have just imploded. I would have done some really bad, you know, it wouldn't have been loose. But you felt like you were ready though,

right? You knew you could do the gig. I knew I could do it. Yeah. Yeah. And I, and so I had just things written on my hand, literally.

What? And, What was written on your hand? On the plane, I, I thought about doing Andy McDowell. Like if she was, I always,

when I would sit in Jill's living room, Yeah. I would pretend to be Andy McDowell, you know, we get a little stoned room, I would pretend to be Andy McDowell. You know, we get a little stoned. And I'd pretend to be Andy McDowell auditioning for a film where she was being held by terrorists. And it would just be to make Jill laugh, right? Where I just be, don't do that. Don't point that gun at me.

It was just... And so all I had were bits that I was doing to make my friends laugh. I didn't want to repeat because I didn't want to repeat. They already saw them. So the honed characters that you know inside out,

I couldn't do. And then Ariana Huffington had been in the restaurant where I was working like a week earlier. And I was imitating her at the bar to make my patrons laugh, you know? So I thought, well, I'll do Ariana Huffington. So I go there, I go to New York.

Are you burnt out on everybody's SNL story? No, no, I like them. I will say they're all different. They are. Every time I hear them. you know, it's interesting. I was listening to Jenny Slate on your show and she replaced me. I mean, when I got let go, she came on and it was really, Oh, I'm not. Um, it was really amazing. Cause I was walking around my house, kind of puttering around doing stuff, listening to it. And it's sort of like hearing about, hearing from the woman your boyfriend dumped you for as they're falling in love.

Do you know what I mean? Like, hearing her story, and I remember she got very emotional in the room. And I started to cry for her, because I knew exactly that feeling of when she got it. I too, you know, felt like I was chosen by that really wonderful man, you know? And I too was like, felt all the validating specialness that she was experiencing. The trip, my trip was like, oh wait, this was all happening while I was being broken up with, you know? That's what was so surreal because it was like, oh wait, this was all happening while I was being broken up with. You know, that's what was so surreal because it was like this car accident of hearing her side of it.

And it's just, I just was, my heart was so full for her because I just was like, yes, you did it. Like, I know exactly what you're talking about. Yeah. Are you crying? A little. You are? Yeah.

Oh, I love you so much right now i just love you that is so like you're so empathic well i just uh you know i remember that whole story but that to front you know to hear it frame like that that feeling you must have had to know that you know that was the one you know after you now I need a fucking clean it's a good story right it really is you know so all right so so but so here so here's my version of my mind so I go to so I fly to New York I fly with them Liz Feldman. And I meet her on the plane. We're sitting next to each other. And I'm like, oh, yeah, I know you.

And it turns out we're both going there to audition for us. We are sitting on the plane next to each other. I'm afraid of flying. Do you think that was planned? Sure it is. Yeah. It was just like, let's mine. Fuck you.

Yeah. So we're sitting next to each other. What they didn't plan on was that we got along like gangbusters. We got super drunk on the airplane because I'm afraid of flying. And I think she's a little trepidatious. I'm just overall nervous. I'm hammered. We're going to test the next day.

We arrive. And what you do is you pace around your hotel room, just running it. And I never got all the way through it you know once without stopping and going wait what you know so that's when i was like i have to write this on my hand went to uh this comedy club so so these comics are on stage and then all of a sudden lauren michaels seth meyers you know yeah you just see the comics like their face just go this is the day that i this is on my vision board this is the day that they all walk in on my vision board. This is the day that they all walk in while I'm about to do my set.

And they were just like, I have to get back up there. And you saw them all jockeying to try to, and we were all just waiting. And then they said, okay, just wait here. And then without telling the audience, oh, by the way, we're going to stop the narrative of,

you know, standups who come out here and tell jokes to your face without them telling anybody what was happening. All of a sudden, we're going to parade six women here one at a time who are going to come out for five minutes and do characters like just do characters right so i'm sure the audience is like what the fuck is happening why is that woman putting on different wigs and talking in silly voices yeah so i'm waiting and i'm just

you know shitting a brick but this is not my first rodeo now. I just did this a year ago. But not in that place. Not in that place. Not with this kind of pressure. Again, day before. And everybody else there had had weeks. Well, what's that?

Right. And so the woman goes out before me and she does Ariana Huffington. She does an Ariana Huffington. she does Ariana Huffington. She does an Ariana Huffington. Right. Ariana Huffington. Who knew who Ariana Huffington was in 2008? Yeah. I mean, I'm from California.

She ran for governor. But beyond that, left, right, and center, the audience also doesn't know who Ariana Huffington is. So it tanks. So it's not sailing. Yeah. And now I have to go out there and do Ariana Huffington after it already didn't work. How many between you? I'm next.

Wow. I'm about to launch. I'm about to go. And I hear her go do Ariana Huffington. And I'm like, oh, are you kidding me? Okay. So what'd you do? So I went out and I said, oh, know okay since you love her so much the first time

yeah i'm going to do ariana huffington again you know and i and then i just i don't know what was inspired but i just started to talk about how like you know why would you care who i am it's just politics uh the audience was laughing because i was just acknowledging that yeah they had no idea who she was and why would they care about politics? There's only two wars going on. Who cares? Right. And so it was nothing that I planned that was working.

It was only just the stuff that I was able to improvise in the moment. And I don't know if that is what helped move it. But you had a good set. I had a good set. It worked out. They liked the Andy McDowell bit. They liked whatever lady good set. I had a good set. It worked out. Like, they liked the Andy McDowell bit. They liked whatever lady, I can't remember who she was. And then right afterwards, Liz Feldman and I decided we're going to go across the street

and have a scotch. So we walk across. There's a lot of alcohol in my SNL story for some reason. But we walk across the street and we, you know, sit down with our drink and we're like you know just because you're still sure regardless yeah as an actor in that situation yeah and just and knowing like two times two times and not getting it is is a like the first time not getting it was fine, but the second time now I really want it. But also it would just be a bummer not to steal the deal. So I'm sitting there.

I just so happen to glance at my phone and it's ringing and it's a New York number. So I answer it sitting right across from Liz and it's one of the producers. And she's like, are you still close by? You know, Lauren wants to have a drink with you. And I was like, yeah, I'm right. Yeah,

yeah. And they're like, why don't you come back to the club? Yeah. And I was like, okay. And then I hang up the phone

and I'm looking at Liz like, this is the worst. The worst best moment of your life? Worst experience. Like, what?

You know, she looks at me. I go, I have to go. And I'm just hoping that her phone rings too. And they're like, yeah, are you still close by? And she's like, okay, okay. And I go, and I just put my hands on her hands. And I said, what's about to happen is really one of the most awkward things I've ever had to sit through. And this is going to be really, really funny when you're telling this story on, you know, late night show, which you will. Yeah. I have no doubt.

Yeah. And by the way, she has since become so successful. But I said, but right now I have to go. And she's just like, OK. And she was so cool about it. And I said, OK, I'll see you later. And she's just like, okay. And she was so cool about it. And I said, okay, I'll see you later. And she said, okay, okay, bye. And so I, you know, sort of tail between my legs,

just kind of walk out the bar and walk across the street. Your tail came up, though. My tail started to fluff up a bit. And I'm like, fuck her. Let's go. So then I get across the street back to the club and they say, oh, Lauren decided to go home or something. Yeah.

So I was like, okay. But all the other producers and Seth Meyers were like, Shoemaker, Mike Shoemaker. Yeah. We're like, okay, let's go get a drink though. Let's like go talk. And so we walk across the street, and we go to this bar, but it looks kind of full and loud. So they go, you know, let's go to this one. Yeah.

They go to the one. Where Liz is? Where Liz is. Stop it. I swear to God. And I'm like, oh, God, please, oh, God, no, oh, God, no, please, God, no. But you are so powerless in that moment. You're like, I just do whatever I'm like, oh, God, please, oh, God, no, oh, God, no, please, God, no. But you are so powerless in that moment. You're like, I just do whatever I'm told.

Right. Because I'm sort of floating right now between two worlds. Right. And so we walk through and they just go walking in and Liz is, you know, at the table on her phone, probably being like, this crazy shit just happened. Right. And we all like single file walk right by her. And I look at her going, I just shrug like, I don't, I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

There's a hundred kinds of sorry I felt. I just wanted to drill a hole in the floor and climb into it and not come out. So we sit down and Seth Meyer said to me, well, there's two ways to get on the show. The really, really easy way and the really really really really hard way and if you get on the show it's probably going to be the really really really hard way and i was like okay he goes we loved you last year sorry it didn't work out right you know but um they weren't promising anything but they certainly made me feel really um appreciated yeah and that was great and they all just said such nice things

and said they'd see me at the growlings. And it was nice, you know? Yeah. And then, so I kind of floated back to my hotel. And then a month goes by, two months goes by, and they weren't kidding. I mean, I was getting on the really, really hard way. So then, a week after Obama got elected,

I was working on the show New Adventures of Old Christine. She's great. You love her? She's great. And she was on SNL, funny enough. So I kept getting calls from an NBC switchboard. Yeah.

Because when I call it back, it would go to NBC. Right. So you had no idea. What is this? What is this? What is this? Finally, but I wasn't getting a message because my phone kept running out of juice and it wasn't connecting with the voicemail enough. It wasn't getting a message because my phone kept running out of juice and it wasn't like that wasn't connecting with the voicemail enough.

It wasn't ringing. And so we're doing the live, not the live tape, but the taping of the show. And finally I have a little break in the taping and I run back. And for some reason we had a big cast. So they put me in this other building far away and my phone had to charge, so I couldn't be with my phone. And I go back there, and I call, and they're like, oh, sorry, Lorne wants to talk to you, but you just missed him. Can he call you back?

And I'm like, yes, but every time I took my phone off the thing, because it was a piece of shit phone, it kept dying. So I had to keep it charged over there. And I was like, um. And then as soon as i get off the phone they go mckayla we need you on set oh my god set and so this went on for three hours i just i don't that whole taping was a blur to me because i was like what is happening yeah and then finally right before curtain call i connect with lauren yeah and he says hi rikaela and i said hi and he said

um and i know people i thought this is when he's going to ask me to come meet him because i know everybody sits down and meets him right and he said um i wanted to see if you can come out tomorrow uh for the table read uh we have the table read tomorrow yeah and it's so freaking cryptic. And I go, does this mean what I think it means? And he goes, yes. And then I was like, well, what if I'm thinking it means? Right. Still not clear. What does he think I think it means?

And so then he says, I said, well, I mean, how long should I plan to come out for? Because I'm coming to, you want me to fly me tonight or tomorrow? It was already nine o'clock at night. I was like, how long should I, in LA? And I said, how long should I plan to come out for? And he said, hopefully a very long time. And I just was like, oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. And I just said, thank you. Yeah. Oh, my God.

Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. And I just said, thank you. And I was so effusive. Thank you. I think you're, I said everything's stupid. I'm sure he's heard so many times.

But I'm like, I think you're just really a great person. Really love your show. Big fan. You know, it's, this is, I couldn even talk i hang up i call my mom i start crying and she's like what nobody ever gives you the reaction you want in my family which i should anticipate but she's like who why what for how long and then the next phone call i made was to get somebody to cover my class the next day. At the Groundlings?

Because I was teaching improv, yeah. Yeah. And so that was the weirdest thing to call my friend. Oh, hey, I just got on SNL, and you're the second person I'm talking to about it. I need a sub. So I go out and do the curtain call, and right after the curtain call, I turn to Julie and I go, I just got hired on SNL. And she grabbed me and she hugged me and she said, we're getting a drink right now.

We need to talk. Oh, yeah? Yeah. She got to give you the lowdown? Yeah. She's like, so she gave me the what, what. And it was all magical. And it was a blur because I had two cats.

I'm leaving the next day. They were just evil. Evil. I mean, everybody else has like, they get hired in the summer, they have a month to find an apartment.

I was going, I'm like, I have a life. I'm also 36, almost 37 years old. I mean, it's not just a life, like I'm a very adult person

at this point, you know? Yeah. And so. What did Julia tell you? She said a couple of things. She did say it was a different atmosphere when she was there and it's much better now because she had gone as a host.

And she just said, you know, this writer's there, you know, they're good. This writer, I think it's still there. Avoid. Oh, yeah. Just practical stuff. No, just. Yeah. And just kind of. I think she just wanted to be like look you know you're you're i think she wanted to kind of just say you're you're a good

person don't don't let it fuck with you don't let it right with your head and did it um of course of course you were on for a season? I did one season, and I felt like it went pretty well. I mean, all I had to compare it with is what I'd seen just as a viewer, you know? And I felt like, oh, for a first season, you know, not too shabby. Got to do a bunch of updates, and, you know, I had some recurring characters and stuff like that. And I was hired with Abby Elliott, who was 21, and I was 36. Like I said, I turned 37 a month after I got there.

I'm 15 to 16 years older than the girl I'm sharing an office space with. And she's a beautiful, beautiful young woman. And I just felt like such a haggard old person there i mean i'm being yeah i'm not i mean i'm not trying to elicit a oh i'm i'm really being honest i really felt like why didn't this happen five years earlier right you know because i'm like i'm there's some there's some things i noticed that felt a little like, this is a little like middle school, but if it was five years earlier, I wouldn't have cared. But there were moments where I was like, I'm kind of too old for this shit. And I don't mean the comedy.

I just mean the way things get run. For example, I went to an after party and I was really good friends with Jason Sudeikis. And neither of us had anybody coming to the show. So, you know, they'd take you to a car to the after party, and we were kind of chit-chatting. We kind of went in one car, because why take two cars and sit by yourself? You know, we're in the middle of conversation,

and we walk up to the desk, and, you know, it's like the producer's assistants kind of seat you, and I don't know if you know the way it sort of works, the after party, but there's way it sort of works the after party but there's you you sort of get the lay of the land pretty early on at the center of at the at the at the inner inner what am i trying to say the sanctum is lorn and the exec producers then there's like this little ring around them that is the senior members of the cast you know fred armisen will forte

uh kristin wig and then after that is like the mid mid-level you know been there sort of the medium amount of time sandberg hater um sudeikis and then around that is the featured players me bobby moynihan casey wilson and abby and then outside of that is uh outside of that ring is the writers and and that's how they sort of seat you in the restaurant at the at the after party and so when we walked up i remember saying oh you know hey can we sit together because you know we don't have we don't have anybody with us, and we're just hanging out. Yeah. And they just sort of looked at us and went, okay, hold on a second.

You guys want to sit together? And we're like, yeah. Yeah. What's the big deal? I'm thinking, what's the big deal? Yeah. And they're like, okay, can you give me one second? Okay.

And you could just see, they were just where do we put Michaela like do we make Jason sit with the featured player area or do we make you could just see like or do we put Michaela with the you could and I was like where I come from in the groundlings like we're one yeah there is no hierarchy there's no I just, my mind couldn't get around. It wasn't coming from the cast. It wasn't coming from the writers. There's so much love and support, I have to say. It was a really, really nice group of people.

Hands down, the writers were just unbelievably terrific people. And the cast was a really solid, wonderful, lovely, lovely bunch of people. It wasn't coming from there. solid, wonderful, lovely, lovely bunch of people. It wasn't coming from there. It was coming from this other like higher level that was sort of instilling this be a little off balance, be a little know your place. Like you have a job where you feel like

it's the center of the universe, but we're going to constantly remind you you're nothing. You know what I mean? It's like this duality that was happening. And I just kind of just felt like, come on, really? Let us sit together. And we ended up sitting together, but I could feel the friction. Wow.

And it was just, I can't even believe I'm telling this because I don't want them to sound bad or look bad, but it just struck me as a bizarre way to run a group of people. I don't think it is the best way to get people to be their most creative selves. Well, I'd always heard that it could be a competitive environment and it was sort of... But it's not coming from the other... No, I know.

No, I've never heard that. Yeah. You know, I think that we're performers. And ultimately, the desire to perform, given the opportunity, is going to perhaps strain or destroy alliances. But not unlike middle school. But you do see. I mean, you can feel like who's hot that day at the table read. Sure, yeah.

And you can feel who's not. And I mean, Casey Wilson to me is such an incredibly funny writer. And I would crack up so hard at her stuff because I wasn't, I was new and I didn't know like, who are we laughing at now? And you could just feel in the room that there was like a tide of who. But it's interesting that at the age you were at, you had some hindsight and you had some life experience. I was past that stage where I went through that, like, I'm going to kill myself. I just ended my life. Or that you'll do anything.

Yeah. Well, I mean, I was coming out of, you know, that huge breakup that I was telling you about. And my best friend had just died. Yeah. And so I was not in my totally right mind probably either, you know. I think I was like just on the other side or in the middle of a lot of grief. Right. And that's life.

That's sad about your friend. Yeah.'t oh and okay so well well how did it end so um so it ended it ended when uh i was back in new york i came out here to do a film and then i went back to new york and i'm in my apartment and I was just thinking oh gosh you know I can't wait to oh gosh oh look at me here I am in New York no I was thinking I can't wait to come back and not be new anymore because I just spent so much time like making sure you're not fucking up all the time right as a new person because you don't know and then managing all this like hierarchy shit yeah and I I also, I wasn't, I like Lorne a lot, I respect him,

but I didn't want to be, here's the thing, I didn't want to, I thought our relationship would happen organically. So I never pushed one with him. I never kissed ass, I never, and every time, and I was really intimidated by him, but I felt like over time, I'm going to get to know him as a person and he'll get to know me as a person.

And I trusted that that would happen. Right. So I don't think, I never, I never kissed ass or anything. I never, uh, sought, seeked people out. And every once in a while, you know, one of the cast members is like, you should go thank Lauren, go say hi to Lauren, you know, make sure you stop by, or maybe not the cast, but sometimes the other producers are like, you should go say hi to Lauren. And I'd walk up to his table and be like, hi. And he's know, make sure you stop by or maybe not the cast, but sometimes the other producers. You should go say hi to Lauren. And I'd walk up to his table, be like, hi.

And he's like, hello. And I'm like, how are you doing? Are you having a good time? I'm like, yeah, I am. I'm really happy to be here. I like your tie. OK, I'll talk to you later. OK, goodbye.

So the real reason why you didn't necessarily kiss ass is that I wasn't good at it and also like Bill Hader said the fact that you're going to go do this movie and he's letting you off to go do this movie or whatever which movie? it was Backup Plan and he said you should thank

Lauren because you know I one time didn't and I could tell I don't know maybe it bothered him I don't know he didn't know you, but he was just like, maybe you want to. And I just was walking down the hall, and you sometimes see him coming. And every part of me is like, go the other way. Just turn. Turn on your heels. Go, run, move.

But I was like, no, I'm going to take Bill's advice. I'm going to go thank him. And by the way, Bill is incredibly sweet. I mean, you didn't have to, people don't usually give advice there. It was really nice of him to. So, so I know it was coming from a nice place, but I went over to Lauren and it was without any, like, you know, warming into a conversation. I was like, hi, Lauren.

I just want to say thank you so much for letting me do this movie. I am really excited to go do this. And you're just very nice. And also, do you have a lot of shirts like that? I like that one. It's very nice on your body. And he just kind of looked at me and he went, okay. Like, just okay.

And I was like, this guy hates me. And he never, like I said, I never had that one-on-one where I sit down in his office and he gets to know me as me. So it's just, I could never, I always misfired every time I talked to the guy. Yeah. So what happened? So then, so I was back in my apartment thinking it'd be nice not to be new. Right. You know, just to come back with a little more relaxed and not have to be the best version of myself to pay for seven.

And then I found out that, I think Casey called me and she's like, was your contract renewed? And I was like, no, I mean, I haven't heard, no, why?

She goes, everybody's contracts were renewed. I was like, oh, that's weird. So then, you know, I made the necessary calls and they said,

they told my manager, of course we're going to renew Michaela. We're just seeing how things are going to move around move around but of course we are we love her we we're we're going to and then uh like a month later i just i i thought i would oh god i just remembered this i thought well maybe if i talk to lauren, show him I'm a person and not this creeper that's like every time I see him, starts sweating profusely and talks really fast.

Maybe if I just tell him why I feel like I should come back and why this is important to me and how happy I am to be there. Maybe I haven't told him that. Maybe he just needs to hear. Maybe he doesn't, maybe he thinks, oh, maybe he thinks I have better things to do. Maybe he thinks, you know, I don't know. I don't know what he thinks. Truth is, he probably doesn't think anything. He thinks like, how can I, you know, she's how old? But so I called him and had a one-way conversation where I just, you know, everything I'd rehearsed, I said in a really stilted, horrible way. He got on the phone. He got on the phone. Yeah.

And he said, thank you so much. I will consider all those things. Oh. And I was like. So he knew exactly what you were calling. Yeah. And so, and I was just like, consider. Okay, this is not going to go my way.

This isn't going to go my way. I just knew it. And then my friend was visiting and I felt it go away. Like for a while, I think he really was. Everybody said that he was really torn when they let me go. But I felt it, you know know just in the atmosphere i felt it move away from me at some point and i hadn't talked to anybody it'd been like a couple weeks later you know and i just i looked at my friend i go it's gone it went away that's a that is like a moment

you have in a relationship as well totally like they just fell in love with me. Yeah. They found a shinier object. And then I know Nassim from Groundlings. And she was in the side of the company there. So I was stoked for her. And Jenny, I didn't know, but I knew people who knew her. And they all just adored her. And when I looked at them, I looked at their picture, I was like, yeah, they don't need me anymore. You know? And I was like, yeah, they don't need me anymore. You know? Yeah.

And I was so sad. But I was getting emotional now. I was. I was really sad. Because I just, there's this thing where you don't know why, you know? And I was like, did I say something? Did I do? It's so horrible.

You want to blame yourself. Well, because, you know, who knows? I joke. Maybe I said something that got i people misinterpret me constantly because i have a joke in my head but it doesn't come out of my mouth the right way and maybe that happened or and then i heard maybe it was on your show i heard andy sandberg i think talking about lauren likes to hire people he'd want to go on a road trip with it was something like that like he could imagine that he'd be happy to be on a cross-country road trip with.

And I heard it on your show. And it was like, you know, years later, of course. And I heard it. I was like, totally over it. Fine, don't care. My life is, you know, found where actually, which is another story. But I feel like things do happen for a reason. And, you know, retroactively, I feel like I'm glad things went the way they did.

But at the time, you feel so much rejection. And I was hearing that and I was like, I wonder if Lauren was like, I don't want to go on a road trip with that chick. And that made me so sad. But you did that to yourself. Because I'm great on a road trip. No, I'm just kidding. Because I'm really, I think I'm funny.

My friends think I'm funny. No, no, no. Like, there's nothing else you can do with that information. But ultimately, I imagine you realize on some level that, you know,

the machinations of that thing are, they're fairly complicated. Mm-hmm. You know, I don't think it's just some weird personal, No, but you're gonna of course

of course your gps is gonna be like where's the because you did good work total shame you know it wasn't like you tanked right you're funny yeah and you know it and and hopefully he's like oh i oops shouldn't have let that you know maybe like you hope your ex-boyfriend pines for you you know what and if i ever get a chance to talk to him, which I've been beating around the bush for five or six years now. It may never happen. It may be the white whale. I don't know. I mean, maybe I haven't tried hard enough.

But I also don't know what I'm looking for. At the time that I went in there, I was unformed. I was chaotic. I was probably looking for a parent you know there was a lot of things that were going on that wouldn't you know lead to me not getting the show but i'm not sure what i really want out of him now you know like you know i've talked to everybody about him i've told my story about auditioning a million times everyone knows that he listens to this show but the worst thing that could happen is and you know if he gives a shit at all the worst thing that could happen is, you know, if he gives a shit at all, the worst thing that could happen if I interview him is nothing.

Like, you know, like if I, well, I sort of remember you coming in, but not really. Oh, my God. Exactly. Exactly. So, you know, there's part of it that, but I'd also like to interview him for the scope of, you know, his career. I mean, I would give him a great interview, but but I do have these and that is the truth of it and I think that's why I felt sad it's like this guy doesn't want want to be on a road trip with me which we don't know maybe he can't wait to get on it maybe he's gonna call me and say let's let's

go we're going we're going up the coast doing the Dakotas but he he he is I have such respect for him and he tells such a great story and when I watch him you know there at work and I observe him and I just see how he handles things

I I am enamored with him a little bit and so you know the truth is like

I was I was so shocked and sad sort of but I didn't allow myself to feel sad because I was like well

I was happy I got to go you know i was in this real like gratitude place um brimming overflowing with it just the fact that i got to go yeah it felt like it never felt real it always felt surreal the entire time so it wasn't until you know a year later that it really that i started to realize i was i was hurt and sad by that. But I was back buying my costumes at Goodwill, doing shows at the Growlings. It was very humbling, but it was ultimately very good for me. I mean, it made me appreciate my friends. It made me appreciate, which I already did,

but it made me even more. Just organize what's important. Organize what's important. The Growlings is such an important part of my life. But, you know, you have a tremendous amount of genuine earned humility. And, you know, you found, you know, you're like a soulmate in Jill.

Yeah. And, you know, you do great work that you have control over. I never would have met my husband if, and he's the love of my life, you know? Yeah. I mean, and you work. And I work and I'm doing, I'm doing what I want to do.

See, like I can totally relate to that. Is that like, I don't know if I'd been given all the opportunities that you want in show business, you know, what kind of person would you be? And would you be able to make the same choices? Right. You know what I mean? It's, you do lose a lot of free will in a way. I remember every time I sat in a BMW, I was like, I would just smell the leather and feel the fit and finish.

And then if you own one, you're like, it's a car. And I feel like if you have your, I still, every job I have, I just, I embrace it. I love the crew. I love the people. I love, crew I love the people I love you know the words that I get to say I love I love the whole experience of it because I appreciate the shit out of it and and that sounds so Pollyanna but it's 100% true well I am a huge fan oh thank you likewise and uh and and this is a no are you i couldn't love you more right now oh i don't even know why are you crying i don't know maybe it's my own shit but thank you for talking. Thank you.

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