WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 647 - Mikal Cronin / Patrick Stickles

Episode Date: October 18, 2015

A garage is a pretty comfortable place for Mikal Cronin. He’s been making rock music with his buddies since high school, especially with his longtime friend and collaborator Ty Segall. As he tells Marc, it’s always been a DIY affair. Plus, Patrick Stickles from Titus Andronicus returns to get Marc up to speed on his new rock opera. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series streaming February 27th, exclusively on Disney Plus. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. Calgary is an opportunity rich city home to innovators, dreamers, disruptors and problem solvers. The city's visionaries are turning heads around the globe across all sectors each and every day. They embody Calgary's DNA.

A city that's innovative, inclusive, and creative. And they're helping put Calgary and our innovation ecosystem on the map as a place where people come to solve some of the world's greatest challenges. Calgary's on the right path forward. Take a closer look out at calgaryeconomicdevelopment.com. Lock the gate! This is WTF. This is my podcast. Welcome to the show. Hope you're doing well. I hope you're doing well globally. I hope all my friends around the world are doing well. Everyone who's listening to this and all these different countries. I just got back from Australia this morning and I'm out of my fucking mind. I was only there long enough just almost to adjust to the difference in time, which is like 15, 16 hours ahead of where I am now. So I flew back in time this morning, and I'm fucking out of my mind. But I got to be honest with you, given all my panic and fear and everything else,

and I mean this, I had some of the best shows of my life in Australia this last trip. I don't know what it was. Maybe it had something to do with the jet lag. I don't know if you know how I work, but I flew out there, and I talked to you right when I got there. But later that day, I went and did television. I slept for like three hours.

And then that night, that Wednesday night in Melbourne, I got to do the project live, which is a panel show. So I get there. I'm like, I'm fragmented on sleep. I ate a Cadbury dairy milk bar, amazing British chocolate. I believe it is. I had a bunch of coffee, all the coffee. There is espresso based. There's no just regular drip coffee. So I jammed myself up with sugar and caffeine, and I went on TV in Melbourne, Australia. Killed it. And I don't say that about myself much, but it was good. So I went back, crashed out, and then the next morning we flew to Sydney after I did another TV show in Australia, a morning program with two anchors, a man and a woman. That went pretty good. Got on a plane for sydney

got there and they had all this candy in the fucking mini bar so i just went to sleep for three hours ate a giant piece of chocolate with marshmallows and then some other chocolate then drank a bunch of coffee and i headed over to the state theater in sydney nervous because as you know i got a little anxious about the trip because I didn't know if we were selling tickets and there was some panic apparently everyone who likes me in Australia bought their tickets immediately months ago and then very few people bought them after that but the fact of the matter is I got there got this Michael Hing guy opening for me did a great job the state theater is an amazing theater is one of the most beautiful theaters i've ever seen really in sydney and uh holy shit there's about 1100 people there which is fine even if

the place seats more it was fine and they were into it and i i don't know if it was jet lag or what but i i rambled through i you know what you give myself myself more credit i professionally rambled through about two hours and change. Did a little Q&A in the middle for no fucking reason. Just feeling it out. Feeling the jet lag. The thing about jet lag is you feel... It's a combination of feelings.

You feel hungover, but then when you feel that... I know I don't drink. It's like being hungover with having nothing fun to regret. It's just the travel and you're fucked up and you're kind of queasy and your brain's not quite fucking working but i did like two hours and 10 minutes and it was it was fun and the audience was great it was a great show it was one of the better shows i've ever done next day we fly back to melbourne i go to sleep again, eat some more chocolate, drink some more coffee, and then I go to the Palais Theater right by the water.

It's this damp, kind of smelly old theater. It's pretty stunning, though, but it's dark. It's got the haunted vibe. It's sort of like, yeah, there was a lot of stuff that went on here, and I don't know what you got, but I'm a little exhausted as a structure. And that's how I felt that theater was. You turn the lights on in that theater and it goes like, oh, what? What's happening now?

Again, what is it this time? Is it music or some needy guy? My opener, Ann Edmonds, did great. And I got out there and I project onto it this old haunted structure with about 1,200 people in it, plenty of room. I began to look at it as sort of an experimental art piece exploring the empty space of theater. But it didn't matter. Both those theaters were so hot and the crowds were so good. I did, and the Stones played there in 65.

And I did another two-hourhour show but this one was pretty fucking tight and it was really one of the best shows i ever did in my life it was very exciting then the next day fly to brisbane which i was nervous about because this was the show i almost canceled because the tickets weren't selling sold about 350 375 and then they found a room in the same structure it's in the actual city hall of brisbane So after doing these two huge theaters and really just putting on big shows for me, all of a sudden I was in this intimate space and I was just stripped bare. The jet lag had ripped me open and the shows had ripped me open and I was almost too fragile in some ways to do the show, but it made the show even more exciting, more interesting. And Mel

Buttle, who opened for me, was hilarious. And we're just in this conference room in City Hall. It was all good. And I have to tell you, Australia, I apologize. I have to tell the people that are listening, I had no time to do fucking anything, sightsee or nothing. Just eat food, eat chocolate, drink coffee, sleep erratically, and do shows.

Three days I was in fucking Australia. It's a hell of a trip for three days, but it was great. I want to thank the people of Australia and thank everybody for the amazing momentum we moved towards Australia with. I wish I'd stayed longer because the other thing about jet lag is now it just seems like a fucking dream. I don't even know if I was there. You just feel like you're moving through waking consciousness, a dream that you have just a little bit of control over, but your brain is still firing like you're asleep. So everything just sort of fades quickly.

And it's very weird in Australia. There's a lot of people, a lot of different kinds of people, but there's also, there seems to be this large tribe of spiky haired alpha males who seem preoccupied with various types of football playing. Maybe I'm projecting, but they all look kind of similar. They all look like they're on a mostly protein diet and would probably smile while they hit your face. But maybe I'm projecting.

Thank you, Australia, is what I'm trying to say. Now, look, today on the show, I've got a guy I really like a lot. I love his music. Michael Cronin will be here. He'll play a song. And then my buddy Patrick Stickles from Titus Andronicus just happened to be down the street, and I snagged him. So that's going to happen in a minute.

Can we, let's start doing this. We're heading into the Lorne Michaels episode. It's in the future a bit, but we're heading into it. And we're going back to the history of the show to, uh, to sort of hear from guests that, that know Lorne and to get a real sense of how Lorne has loomed over so much of what we do as comedians and in rooms large in my mind. I don't know how much he had to do with what I do, but it's certainly been an obsession of mine.

So we've been sort of kind of going through the back episodes to, to, to get these Lauren stories. And there's a lot of them. There's like three or four special episodes of just Lauren stories. If we really wanted to do it. But as we head into my experience my new experience with lauren michaels i want to play this clip this is from 2011 this is from

episode 164 it was a live show from brooklyn at the bell house that included bill hater and fred armisen how often do you have to deal with lauren um like one every every day all the time he's awesome. He really is great. He's very hands-on. Can I share with you how paranoid I am? Yeah. You know, I had one meeting with him.

When? Like, 95 or something. And it didn't go well. And I think he brought me in when Luna was starting downtown. And the first thing he said to me was like, I don't know what you think you're doing down there below 14th Street, but it doesn't matter. It didn't matter, did it?

No, it didn't matter at all. But this is how fucking nuts I am and how self-important I am. The Wall Street Journal wrote up this show, and I told the interviewer who was asking me about, you know, Luna and that you guys were coming on and then I told him

about the SNL story and I told him that story because he was asking me about alternative comedy and I called him back and I said, look, could you pull the Lorne thing out

because I don't want him to see it and then say, and then keep Fred and Bill late. I thought Lorne Michaels was going to see that story and say, you guys aren't going. You're not going to the Fable WTM. Wow. That's crazy.

That's a good move, though. That is a good move. He did the right thing. He did do the right thing. No, yeah. I mean, there's certain things like he'll laugh really hard at. Like, anytime Will Forte

would get angry in a sketch, Lauren would start laughing really hard. And Will's face would get red and be like, What the fuck are you doing? Yeah. Like, he would just,

that was like Lauren's sweet spot. Lauren would just start laughing. He would see it on the horizon. Yeah, yeah. But does that was like Lauren's sweet spot Lauren would just Start laughing He would see it On the horizon Yeah yeah But does that make Everybody feel good Like does Will come back

And go I fucking Made the king laugh Yeah yeah Or you do hear that Sometimes you go back To the office And be like Lauren was laughing

Yeah that's a point That's a point After read through Or you're doing something You look up And he's not laughing And you're like Oh no

Has he ever given you any weird notes like that just made you go oh okay sometimes you have to like think like what what does he mean by that uh-huh it's that kind of thing but they're always constructed he'll do weird psych out thing not weird site but he'll i think he's being honest but it becomes a site like the very first uh vincent price we did i up and he was like, there's a band playing. I'm dressed as Vincent Price. I'm sitting there. I'm like really nervous.

I'm kind of like my fifth show or something. And he came up to me. He's like, I like this, but why now? Was this? And I was like, why didn't you just say I'm about to go live? And he's like, no, no, it's good. I like it. Yeah, man. See, Lorne has had the zap on my head for a long time and uh and you're gonna hear where we stand him and i now and what what gets uh what gets hashed out uh soon my friends all

right let's talk stickles patrick stickles patrick stickles is the uh front man of titus andronicus you uh you might have heard him here on episode 462 it was one of my uh one of my favorites the guy's mind is on fire he's got a brain on fire all the time i like guys like that and uh here's what happened he He's got this amazing new double, triple record out. It comes with three vinyl discs, full 12-inch vinyl. One of them you got to play at 45. Keeps you on your toes. But it's a rock opera.

And we had talked about him doing this rock opera when he was on a couple years ago. And I just liked his records. I don't even know where I got his records, the monitor and business and i and i just felt that he meant it man he's an he means it he's he's you know he's got to play rock and roll to live mentally and physically if it doesn't get out of him we're all in trouble so i really i mean i liked his liked his drive and I was excited to have him on the show. So here's what happens. He gave me the test pressings of this vinyl when I did my show at BAM in Brooklyn. He came backstage.

He was going to come to the show, but he got there an hour and a half, two hours late. But he brought me these test pressings and he gave them to me as a gift, which was great. But I got the vinyl. I got the CD of the most lamentable tragedy. That's the name of the rock opera from Titus Andronicus. It's her first album on Merge Records. You can get it at MergeRecords.com slash shop and use the promo code WTF at checkout to get 20% off all music and merch. Also, you can hear my full episode with Patrick. And as I told you before, it was episode 462, and you can hear my full episode with patrick and as i told you before it was

episode 462 and you can get that on how premium so patrick stickles is in town tells me he's coming to town he's playing at the roxy i can't make it that day though i'm driving down york boulevard in my neighborhood and out in front of permanent records i see a bearded stickles just hanging out talking to people i'm like what the fuck i knew he was in town i didn't know he was doing an in-story permanent but they'd just done it and i pulled over and i see him he's just on fire the dude is just like mentally on fire and uh full of the spirit of rock and roll and trying to crunch the uh the big existential numbers in his head at all times so i said hey man why don't you come over tomorrow and hang out on the mic for a bit he's like yeah so this is a a sort of impromptu conversation with patrick stickles from titus andronicus and he

also just informed me that his um his new music video is going to uh to be uh premiering i believe today at titus andronicus.net all right okay. Okay. I'm telling you that now. And now you're going to hear me talk to Steve. You can get anything you need with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats, but iced tea and ice cream. Yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats. Get almost, almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Calgary is an opportunity-rich city home to innovators, dreamers, disruptors, and problem solvers. The city's visionaries are turning heads around the globe across all sectors each and every day. They embody Calgary's DNA. A city that's innovative, inclusive, and creative.

And they're helping put Calgary and our innovation ecosystem on the map as a place where people come to solve some of the world's greatest challenges. Calgary's on the right path forward. Take a closer look out at calgaryeconomicdevelopment.com. Pickles. Where the fuck is that ashtray? I hate to have this ashtray. Hold on.

That's it. I just want to thank everybody for tuning in to What the Fuck with me, your host, Patrick Stickles. Coming to you from the garage that you all have imagined so many times. I just want to let you know that it is real. It's a real place. So what's going on? Let's just work some shit out. Let me tell you, driving around this neighborhood

with a big trailer is tough. Can I tell you, folks? I sure scared myself a few times trying to park that thing on those hills. All right. My guest today is Mark Maron. You might know him from Dr. Katz, professional therapist. And he's... I did it. Patrick Stickles. Hello. Hello. Here in the garage again. What an honor to be back here. Thank you. Well, you're welcome.

I'm sorry that I missed the fucking show. That's all right. That was vengeance for me missing your show at the Brooklyn. But you did show up very excited and, yeah, late. And you gave me the, what was that, the test pressing? That's right. Of the masterpiece, of the masterwork. If you want to call it that.

Yeah, I mean, look at this thing man the most lamentable tragedy a three album rock opera yes although to to be fair to your listeners one of those lps is a 12 inch 45 i know and it forces you to listen in order i noticed that today that's right well and not in the order that people would think it's trying to make a more active listening experience rather than the whole put it on make dinner sure does more active mean like oh fuck wait so this isn't the all right well okay so i guess i put this one on well the um it is it's trying to keep people on their toes basically you know you listen to the first lp is just two sides of 33 and a

third that's very normal and then you go to reach for the first side of the next disc if you don't adjust the speeds the track will be playing a lot slower and this is one of the ways that we indicate that we've entered into a dream sequence because it's like an altered reality is that 45 supposed to be an altered reality that yes's a dream sequence, yes. And that's the one with my father's brother's song? That's right. That's the ancestor of the main character, like his great-great-grandfather or something,

who was the original person in his family to emigrate to America from the old country. Which old country? It's Ireland. Yeah. But it could be mostly any country, any country where dreams have been dashed and where a happy future seems impossible.

It seems to me after I talked to you last that you're working through a lot of your own shit in this record. Yes, that's true. The journey through medication, through the meltdown, through owning your brain, owning yourself and for for better or for worse. Warning people of the possibilities of personality trouble. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. And when I told when I told you all these things the first time, I didn realize that you discuss these same things often in your own work.

Yeah. I was pretty ignorant coming into the whole thing aside from the Dr. Katz episodes, which I enjoyed very much. Yeah. Well, no. Yeah. We talk about that shit a lot. But I mean, I remember because the last time I talked to you, you were kind of fresh out of the fucking whirlpool. Yeah. Fresh out of the. Well, I thought so. Yeah. I thought I was out of the the fucking uh whirlpool yeah fresh out of the the well i thought

so yeah i thought i was out of the whirlpool i thought i was on the other side of something with you were like no medicine guy i'm just gonna smoke some weed yeah well i was on i was back in a doctor's care about a month later so to be to be fair uh and what happened? Well, you know, I guess you could say that my, well, some of those decisions were possibly a little bit selfish, you know, and maybe a lot of them came from a genuine place of whatever. Yeah. Concern or self-preservation or, you know, a desire to not extinguish my artistic tendencies or whatever. And to feel life. Yeah.

But this is one of the morals of that rock opera we just talked about. Those are all valid things, but ultimately that's your business and you're still accountable for the decisions that you make while you're doing it. And how they affect other people. Yes, exactly. Right.

It's not, even though I'm fighting my own personal little war against myself yeah i might there shouldn't be so many casualties in that struggle inevitably there are oh boy did you lose some people uh not even really i'm a very lucky guy. You pulled back. I know that I, you know, hey, everybody out there has heard this tale before that's tuning into this program, you know, and to be just walking around angry man style, you know. But I've heard that, you may have heard the tale before, but like the thing that's great about the record and about how you deal with it is that this is the struggle is definitely on this record and in the in the songs themselves you read the lyrics because it's a fucking if you get the vinyl it's a beautiful uh a beautiful bit

of business quadruple gatefold designed by the great artist nolan straws yeah baltimore maryland it's great former singer of the great band double Dagger. You ever heard them? No, no. One of the greatest of all time. And he plays in a really good, awesome band now called Pure Junk. Yeah. Nolan Straw. I tip my hat to him every time. And he did a beautiful layout. Did some beautiful art.

And all the lyrics are here. Although I did the lettering for the lyrics, not to brag. And also you did the lettering for your famous logo, I guess, too. No? Not you? No, no, no. And I didn't design that logo either. That was our former keyboardist, David Robbins.

What happened to that guy? Was he one of the fallen? Burned him out, basically. He was a wonderful guy. He was like a beautiful soul. Yeah. So in a lot of ways. Too sensitive for the stickles.

I mean, maybe. I don't know if it was i mean i was i i contributed to it but it's it's the life you know i don't necessarily make the life easier on people but uh i'd like to i don't know man i think that if you like the record's doing well the response is good right so i mean i think that a lot of people identify with uh with the struggle and with the you know with the drugs with the you know wanting to be yourself with the uh you know not wanting to be on drugs with the thinking that you can manage your own shit and then sort of drifting into

fantasy and kind of coming through it a bit on the other side you seem okay today yeah well uh i'm in a much better place than when we first met medicine no medicine yes medicine I take 100 milligrams of Lamictal a day and then I've got the

the Klonopin as needed yeah but as needed it's a very elastic term right that's a slippery slope with the Klonopin

take it when you're anxious well alright so 9am let's go I'm plenty fucking anxious, you know? But, like, that's one of the... You got the wiggle room on the Klonopin.

Yeah, well, I mean, I shouldn't, though, is the thing. Well, I know, but Lamictal, what is that? That's for the bipolar. That's an anti-convulsant, yeah. Right, so... I spent a lot of my life convulsing, so I still do my fair share. You do a lot of it on stage, though, thank God. I try to keep it up there as much as I can. can well so the mictal is not going to bring the

poles together it's just going to try to level the high so when they get too out of control you knock it down with the klonopin i suppose so i mean i guess yeah that that would be the plan right i suppose because the choice other than that is is is lithium which will suck the balls right out of you right right right you know rich. You know Richard Thompson's work, the guitar player? I've heard of him, you know, but I haven't done all my homework yet. Well, it's all right. He's a good guitar player. But I ran into him in Ireland, and I interviewed him, and I was backstage talking to him.

And I told him that I smoked a cigarette with Keith Richards. And I said, you know, Keith is a bad influence on me. And Richard Thompson says, he was a bad influence on everyone. That's the rock and roll hero yeah i wonder if if the choices that i would have made had i not studied his life as much as i have the past few years who keith keith yeah oh really he i mean keith richards like if he had done the things that he had done and not the rock and roll genius part. Right. Like, what, you know, you know what I'm saying? Who would care?

Like, Keith Richards or like Neil Young or somebody can make lots of sorts of decisions. Yeah. And come out on the other side looking like they were right. Right. decisions yeah and come out on the other side looking like they were right right but then again they also you know wrote jumping jack flash yeah or whatnot down by the river yeah and so they can they can mostly back up like history is going to forgive a lot of the things that they did and maybe yeah that's right and it may just feed their myth you know even if it was kind of gnarly what's his famous thing?

I never had a drug problem. It was the cops that had a problem with my drugs or something, right? Well, now he says that the entire drug experience was experimentation. But he's pretty honest about it. He knows he's lucky to be alive and he saw a lot of people die. And I think right now, old Keith is just trying to make people realize that whatever they think he is, that's about a 30-year-old story. make people realize that whatever they think he is, that's about a 30-year-old story. The truth of the matter is, he's a 72-year-old dude with grandkids, and he's still alive and making music.

As long as we're talking about him and I have this platform, I just want to say real fast that his daughter, Alexandra Richards, she and I have the same birthday, July 28th. I was 1985, she was 1986 uh-huh and I just want to also say that she was photographed in the pages of self magazine holding the Titus Andronicus record local business and that may have just been because it was a red vinyl prop. Uh-huh. But then again, maybe not. Same birthday. Yeah.

I don't know. I can find out if she likes you. I would appreciate it. You want to know? I mean, well, not really. I want her to like us.

Okay. So you want to leave the mystery? Well, no. I got a guy. I'm getting up here and I'm just saying to the world,

like, there's a, there's like a, there's a connection here, folks. There's the will of the universe trying to make itself known. We had the same birthday and the video for Trouble from Cross-Eyed Heart. That dropped on July 27th. So maybe Keith didn't know.

Maybe that was intended as a present for his daughter. But that was my 30th birthday present this year you know what i'm saying like new keith richards video and he's watching keith's hands going just like they should and he's like oh man that was a great birthday you know but i'm just saying i guess i'll just come right out and say it it is because you got to like visualize what you want, right? And you've got to make your vision chart for the things you want. I feel like the expensive winos and Keith are probably going to go play some shows, he said. He said that there will probably be some expensive winos shows. Yeah.

And what a great band. Steve Jordan on drums fantastic anyway i really think that if these shows do happen that titus andronica should be the opening act okay i'm just putting it out there out there alexandra richards and i have the same birthday uh nobody out there has studied as much as i have in our little field anyway, maybe like some much older guys, but come on. Yeah. Come on, Keith.

Come on, Keith. Throw Patrick a bone. Let's do it, man. You would think I was cool. Yeah, I think you would, man. Come on. And Alexandra, this birthday thing, you already held the record.

Let's go. Let's make this happen. And Connecticut is pretty close to new york city that's where we live yeah whatever fuck this show it's like we'll come over the house jam you never not even jam because you sit around smoke cigarettes you you guys would i think you guys would get along he likes to talk smart guy you to talk. You're a smart guy. Well, maybe I should talk less, listen more. Really? Maybe that's part.

Is that going to be the new stickles? Well, no, because then I would be out of a job. Well, you do both of them, it seems. How do you do it? I just force myself to shut up. God, how? It's hard. It's hard.

It took a long time of talking to people and realizing that I didn't need to fucking talk. Sometimes it's like, all right, just don't talk. Well, yeah. Yeah, just let's end. You don't have to always fill the void. Well, yeah, it's hard though, man. It's very. So wait, so you played the rock scene.

You said coming in that you got the same number of people that Bruce did. What was that math? in that you know that uh you uh got the same number of people that bruce did how'd you what was it where was that math except for the except for the vip section our vip section was was barren except for maybe like two people who had a whole bunch of elbow room but then the dance floor that's a testament to uh perhaps being uh you know at that point in your life where it's just real rock and roll and the VIPs are not hip. That would be nice. They're not hip yet.

Well, I mean, the VIPs, maybe they can just skip it. Yeah, who needs the VIPs, man? Would it make you feel better if Lemmy was in the corner? Oh, well, Lemmy is a different sort of VIP or Iggy or anybody like that. That's different, but like, you know,

I don't know. I mean, I guess I wouldn't mind if some like network executive or something came to the show and gave me the same deal you got. Sure. I wouldn't mind that. If they want to put me on TV or in the movies or something, they can stand back there. You want to be in the movies?

No, not really. But it's a well let me put it this way yeah last night at the roxy theater quite a big fan of bruce springsteen okay i'll admit it i'm from new jersey just like he is he has a very legendary uh concert recording from the roxy july 7th 1978 it was the source of most of the first disc of his live 1975 to 85 box set and so that was what we were playing over the PA last night um between the bands baked from Brooklyn and spider bags from North Carolina it behooves me to mention these great artists anyway and at the beginning of the concert Bruce gets out there and says something like

I know that a lot of people waited a long time online to get tickets for this show. A lot of people didn't get in. I don't play no private parties anymore. I only play my own parties now. Let's rock. So that's what it is, you know, like, and attracting these VIPs or whoever, these cultural tastemakers, you know, these people that have got the keys, that have got access to the apparatus of the industry, you know, that's just a present company excluded, obviously. That's like a means to an end, you know what I'm saying? To reach the people that are going to fill up the dance floor. Right. You know, because these VIPs, you know, maybe, you know, we might have been the hottest ticket in town last night. Probably not.

I think Kanye West or somebody was in town who I admire very much, too. But, you know, if all those people were saying, I need to be in there tonight because this is the hottest ticket in town. Well, you know, where are these people going to be in two years when it's not the hottest ticket in town? You know what I'm saying? It's much more important to foster and nurture the connection with the people who love you. Yeah, who have a real genuine connection to the art and aren't concerned with the status that comes along with it. And if they were trying to be part of any scene,

it's just a scene around the band, because it's a beautiful communal, the whole rock and roll thing. Everybody together is like a little family for one night in a little temporary autonomous zone. Taz. Taz, yeah.

Yeah, Hakeem Bey. That's pretty good. That's not such a bad acronym. Yeah, no, it's a real acronym. There's a book, Autonomedia put out a book by a guy named Hakeem Bey called TAS, Temporary Autonomous Zone. God, I've been talking about it for years.

I didn't even know where it came from. Well, I know I didn't make up that phrase. Yeah, I'll show you the book after. I might have it still. That's an important concept right now in the movement to make the rock and roll slash punk scene less violent and more inclusive to people, you know, who maybe can't or don't want to participate in those kinds of, like, macho...

Right, beat the shit out of everybody on the dance floor. Yeah, you know, yeah. Get yourself bloody. I mean, you know, even if it's not, even if people aren't breaking their nose every single night, like with certain so-called punk bands, like, it still has often been the case that a show will begin and in the front row will be a lot of people

that I'm really very interested in sharing my secret feelings with. Not that I'm trying to play super favorites. I mean, I am. But meeker people who know who are who i know are probably there to you know to be like an aficionado you know what i'm saying and want to be you know at the front of the stage to to to feel what it's all about the struggle dude yeah yeah but then you know a lot of the times you know they'll be there and they'll be singing along for some kind of sensitive pensive opener and something and i'm

like wow this is the life man like i feel so there's so much mutual validation going on i feel so safe and loved and they feel the same i know and then it's like one two three four by nine to some giant hit and in 30 seconds it's, it's all shirtless frat boys. And nothing against those people, you know, because I might not have been in a fraternity, but I've been, like, definitely a dumb punk bro that, like, made the scene less inclusive just by, you know, thinking that,

oh, I'm just going wild, and this is the way to go. And that's fine, you know, oh, I'm just going wild and this is the way to go. And that's fine, but there's questions of affirmative consent. You know what I'm saying? It shouldn't be taken for granted that if you step onto the dance floor at a punk show or if you're in the front row

because you want to be by the amplifiers or whatever, you want to be beat up. That's not signing up to get to get pummeled yeah clobbered but i like that you like you're such a fan of bruce because and i don't know if we talked about this the last time but there there's always you're really good at knocking out the anthems building up the build building up the pace right right getting it going like i like because like whatever punk rock is you know i've talked to like People who are Part of the original punk thing

Where it meant something A little different But you just play Fucking rock and roll songs dude That's right Well there's a There's a distinction For me between

Punk The The ideology And punk rock Music Right Because like you said The first wave

Has got certain Aesthetic signifiers Which just meant Different Attached to it Yeah exactly And it was different from the dominant culture at that time which was very excessive yeah so they said we have

to be more economical whatever the ramones were doing you know yeah because like you said we mostly just play rock and roll it's great man and everything kind of weaves into the next you always did that though i mean you know the the monitor is like close to an opera in a way and you know that doesn't have a a linear narrative right exactly but it's a definitely a concept frame a frame story and then kind of a more series of vignettes more like born to run in that way as long as we're as long as we're giving credit where it's due to the boss but the river too is sort of a concept right he's made a few right well i thought a lot more about the river when making that one your new one yeah just because um i i didn't get that one for a lot of years because it has a certain bipolar quality to it you know what i'm saying it's got like uh

sherry darlin right next to you know point blank or whatnot yeah or you know the super dark songs like some of his darkest bleakest stuff right next to like his most uplifting joyous stuff and i was like what's up with that yeah and i see now and i had to have it explained to me by a couple different books but i see that that's some kind of a richer experience than say darkness on the edge of town right which is purely bleak. It's very finely distilled sort of a thing, but it's sort of a little bit one-dimensional, and I would have to level the same accusation at most of the Titus Andronicus albums prior to this one

that you're holding there, because I thought that it would be very corny to sing about, say, romance or to write a song that says, hey, everything actually is going to be okay. I've always had moments like that. I didn't see how they could fit into my particular artistic purpose.

But hence the rock opera and the emotional camouflage of the so-called fictional story. And also when you got three records, you document the perseverance of the human spirit. Exactly. That's how you glimpse real transcendence. That's it, buddy.

Well, you did it, man. I'm trying. Well, I'm glad we talked for a little while. It's a great pleasure to be here. Thank you for all your support over the years. Sure, man. Thank you for all the laughs. Thank you for all the validation.

Yeah, and thank you for the original test pressings of The Most Lamentable Tragedy. Hey, you know, I know your vinyl guy. It was sweet, buddy. It's great to see you, Patrick. It's great to be here.

Thank you, Mark. But don't forget to pick up that album, The Most Lamentable Tragedable tragedy and if you get it at merge records.com slash shop use the promo code wtf to get 20 off it's good record people i mean it he means it stickles means it titus means it michael cronin uh he's one of ty siegel's buddies i loved his last record mc2 and now there's mc3 and there i actually he's on merge records too so you can go to merge records.com slash shop

and that's 20 off with the wtf promo code but i was always sort of curious about michael cronin i thought he was some sort of wizard i thought he was older than he was i thought a lot of things about michael cronin then he comes he's like he's just this guy just this young dude who happens to play really fucking great music but he can he does the the full spectrum he'll do some noise music he'll do some psychedelic music and then these records these last couple records good rock pop he lives down the street so here's uh here's me talking to Michael Cronin. So we're inside. Now, I told you I watched the Eagles documentary.

Now, like, I'm on neither side of this fight, the Eagles fight. Me too. Oh, you're in the middle? Yeah. I mean, I don't mind it when it comes on, but I don't actively hate it. Right. Like, I don't understand what makes some bands cool for hipsters. Like, the bands that those guys came from, kind of like the Birds and... Well, that's weird.

It's the Birds and the Flying Burritos Brothers. Oh, yeah, yeah. They're cool. Yeah. Belinda Ronstadt, the Eagles, not cool. Not cool. How the fuck does that happen? I cool. Yeah. Belinda Ronstadt, The Eagles, not cool. Not cool. How the fuck does that happen? I don't know.

You said you witnessed an argument? It seems to keep coming up, The Eagles. Really? Recently? Yeah, I think because some people are getting, some young people seem to be getting into them a little. Maybe. I don't know.

Oh, so now they're- I'm not on the cusp of- No, me neither. But I mean, just the idea of that's kind of interesting to me. So there's some hipster arguments. Some heated discussion. Like one idiot, you know, with some fancy glasses goes, I don't know, I think the Eagles are okay.

And some guy goes, no, no, no Eagles. I think it'll come back around. It's like Fleetwood Mac seemed to get cool again a couple years ago. Like Lance and Liz down at Permanent Records, they say like they sell at least one or two a day all of a sudden. Really? Well, that's because a lot of the people that are buying records are fucking old guys like me trying to find some part of our life

that we lost. There's nothing more humbling than being in a record store going through bins with chubby 50-year-old dudes that look kind of like me with a sad face. That's great. Did you buy Rumors? I have Rumors, sure. You like it?

Yeah. Where'd you grow up, buddy? I was born in LA here, but then moved to Laguna Beach when I was like nine or so. Yeah? So spent those formative years there. In Laguna Beach? Down in Orange County, yeah. On the beach?

On the beach. So is that where you met Ty? Yeah, we went to high school together. You and Ty Siegel went to high school together? Yeah. See, the weird thing about you guys is that a lot of people don't know you guys or your music, but you're not even 30 and you have like 50 records out between the two of you. Do you ever just think about that?

It's kind of gotten really lucky to just like stay busy and eventually have people just want to release, you know, whatever. Yeah, it's weird. When I first saw you or pictures of you or when I saw you play with Ty at the Echo, that one time I was there oh yeah uh i i assumed you're like uh because you had your long hair and some scruff that you you seem to have sort of an ageless demeanor and i decided you're like the old wizard but it turns out you cut your hair and you're just a you're just a punk like the rest of them just a dude you're like the ageless wizard though that's

amazing well yeah because you know you sort of showed up on on you know a lot of Ty's stuff and Ty you know I just I got into him I guess a couple years ago so when you guys are coming up you're all in high school

and I don't even I'm afraid to ask what year that is what is it like 98? 2000? I graduated in 2004. Oh my god. Ty was 03.

Right. So you're all down there in Laguna. Yeah. And who's the other guy that's on the... Charles Muthart. So what kind of shit are you listening to? What's the deal? Oh, back then, like in high school.

What brought you guys together? I remember in the early early 2000s we're kind of all listening to well there was there was like punk bands you know like black flag and old stuff yeah but then there's also like the stuff that was coming out there's a lot of like dance punk yeah moving units and uh the rapture okay just kind of like a disco beat right it got Dance Punk. Yeah. Moving Units and The Rapture. Okay. Just kind of like a disco beat. Right. That got really hip for a second. Really?

Yeah. God missed everything. I mean, that was a quick thing. I was very old and sad by then. Yeah, but we all kind of listened to that. And then Ty already had a band, like a duo band where he played drums and sing. And then our other friend played like bass and keyboard at the same time and sang and he kind of had like a i love this guy but he had a pretty like affected

tom waitsy voice oh really 16 year old he's amazing he's awesome and it was kind of there's a lot of like that disco kind of punk thing going on. Really? Yeah, a little bit. It was called the Love This and they would play. There were like, there was not a lot of music going on at our high school. It was really small. Or in our town.

There was no really place. What town? It was Laguna? Laguna, yeah. Really? So it was just all happening at the school and in people's houses? It was just like house parties, like high school parties. So they would be like the resident band. And then, i i was already a fan and then word got around i i

played saxophone in the school band like the marching band and the jazz band was that your first instrument uh that was from when i was 10 you played sax because your folks were like why don't you play an instrument yeah well my my's a musician. So she started me out and my siblings on piano pretty early. Professional musician? No, she could be. She just retired, but she's an ER doctor at Cedars-Sinai. Up here? Yeah.

Really? Yeah. Wow. So she would commute a couple times a week from South Orange County. Oh, to do the all night shift kind of thing? No. She had like decent shifts by the end. Mm-hmm.

So she was like an internist or like just a general doctor? I think general doctor. Yeah. Yeah. One of those people. Dealing with all the gnarly shit. Yeah. Comes in.

Yeah. That guy's in trouble. Yeah. That's brutal. But I mean- What'd your dad do he he just retired as well but he was he was a lawyer wow yeah smart people you're doing all right down there this is fine wasn't a hard uh hard upbringing no i mean how many siblings you got i got three others what are they um they're they're human they're all smart people really i have a my my older sister is less than a year older than me so we're irish twins so to speak uh-huh i guess that's

just one followed the other yeah yeah within like 11 months in a couple days and then you got what brothers or yeah i got a younger brother it's like 15 months younger. Wow. My parents went quit. Just knocked him out. Yeah. Let's get this over with. And he just, he graduated law school. Wow. So he's working at a firm. My, my youngest sister just moved to LA to go to law school.

They're all doing that. Yeah. And then there's me. Yeah. Doing this thing. Well, how do you, how do your folks feel about that? Um, they're really supportive. Really?

Yeah. Especially now that, I mean, for a while, my mom was always supportive because she's a musician. She kind of lived by chaos. She plays piano and harp. She plays like classical. There's a harp in the house? Yeah. A big harp?

Big harp. And she can do it? She shreds, yeah. Wow. So you grew up plinking around on a harp? Big harp. And she can do it? She shreds, yeah. Wow. So you grew up plinking around on a harp? Yeah, a little bit. Trying not to break it. Trying not to tip it over.

I kind of regret not learning harp. Do you think it's too late, Michael? I don't know. It's never too late to learn harp. I can plunk around. I understand it. Really? But it's not, you can't apply it very well, you know?

Right. I think, isn't there one groovy harp player? Well, Joanna Newsom. Joanna Newsom. Yeah, she's great. That's right. She's the harp player. Yeah.

She married Andy Samberg. She did. All right. So you're playing, so she gets you on saxophone. Yeah. So you know how to read music. Yeah. And what kind of music are you playing on sax?

Were you, did you get involved? Did you get interested in jazz or just marching band i i mean i did they had you know they had like a kind of big band style right yeah you know high school sure jazz band which i really liked and i played like the lead so i got the solos and stuff oh yeah so you can do it huh yeah and like it was kind of a it was kind of an unsaid rule that you had to be, to play in the jazz band, you kind of had to be in the marching band because it was the same kids

and I, you know, hated marching band. It's terrible, man. Yeah, just. So you were in the marching band.

Yeah. But that was just, that was the price you had to pay to do some leads, huh? Yeah. That was the only thing

that kept you in and it's like, I'm the main sax dude. I guess I got to go out and do this dumb parade. I got to play the baritone sax in the marching band, which is heavy as shit, but it's awesome. It's got the best range, just low, like honk. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

And did you do parades and shit? Oh, yeah, yeah. And stupid little capes and shit. I don't know. Didn't you get any flack from that cool guy? I was never a cool guy. I fit right into that band. I was not the cool guy.

You weren't? Yeah, I hung out with the nerds and the... The band nerds? Yeah, a couple of them. The computer nerds and then eventually like the skateboarders and then like the punks you know so you went from computer nerds and then somebody turned you on to some drugs and then you're like i gotta go i was clean i was totally clean living until you know my 20s really i still haven't i don't i don't do a lot of drugs or anything that's good yeah

i'm not judging you i'm not gonna be to be like, really, what a puss. Why not, man? No, I was just, yeah, I was just, I don't know, doing my thing. But how does that blow up, though, like that? Because, you know, you're doing saxophone, you're in a marching band, you're wearing capes. What changes? What blows your mind into, like, you know, playing the bass and then doing punk rock? Like, what was the moment?

Do you remember? and then doing punk rock. What was the moment? Do you remember? I mean, it was really like joining that high school band with Ty and Coleman to love this. So you saw them at a party? Yeah. And you were like, these guys are...

I was getting to know Ty a little bit. What was he like when he was younger? Because you guys are both pretty soft-spoken, but it seems like you were kind of... I mean, yeah, he's a madman. He is, right? Yeah. Yeah, I know he was soft-spoken in here.

I heard the interview. Oh, I didn't get the real tie, goddammit. Well, no, he just, no, that was the real, he got the real guy. The sweet guy? He's got one side of the coin. Right. Well, when he gets on stage, he seems like a guy that just sort of comes to life up there yeah like that's how he that's what he that where he lives it out he fits yeah yeah like yeah yeah he becomes a guitar hero yeah so um yeah it was it was kind

of it kind of felt like an old movie or something because i heard word that like oh the love this kind of wants a saxophone player oh had oh it's a sax player yeah so and then i remember like i think i was 17 yeah i was probably 16 school ends we're in the parking lot see him walk over he's like hey man do you want to we're looking for a sax player it kind of felt like hey cat come come jam come sit in with us i was like yeah of course and then just went over a couple days later and like joined the band as the third into someone's house who would tie his house or where yeah i was uh played at coleman's in coleman's like garage yeah kind of basement garage yeah and that was kind of my first time being in a band playing like...

Did you jam? I kind of just... I kind of... I knew their songs, you know, because I saw them so many times. So I just kind of jammed over it, you know. So they were a real thing. Like you saw them many times at many parties. Yeah, a couple of times.

I mean, they would... And they were cool. They would strictly... They wouldn't go out and play any like public shows or anything. Like none of us knew how to do that at all. What are you, like 17, 16? Yeah. But there's no other bands going to play gigs around town or anything.

No one comes through? Not Laguna, no. We'd have to come up to LA, usually. Did you guys make the trip sometimes? Yeah, we started going to the Smell a Did you guys make the trip sometimes? Yeah. We started going to the, to the smell a lot downtown. Yeah. You know that place?

No. It's like a, it's like a all ages DIY space. It's been around for years and years. Oh yeah. And that's where like all, that's where all the first shows I saw were. And that's where all the,

my bands would play for the first time they were very open sure well the all ages thing for the punk rock thing was huge yeah i mean it was like five bucks usually they knew who their audience was yeah i get the kids in here it's all kids and there's a whole there's a whole strong scene about it now like it's at some point like i've talked to ty a couple times over permanent and shit and you and he's turned me on to records. Well, it just seems like there's this garage psych sound that is popular, or at least the thing. Sure. There's another LA band that does even more lyrical, less garage, more psych sounding.

Is it Wand? Yeah, Wand. Yeah, those are buddies of mine. Yeah. They're amazing. They're my favorite band. Oh, really? Yeah.

Are you guys all the same age? Yeah, a little younger. They're younger or you're younger? They're a little younger, but we're around the same age. Younger kids keep... Oh, my God. You're already there, these kids. Yeah, but me and the main songwriter,writer is cory hansen uh we we went

to college together up at um at cal arts yeah um and we were roommates for a couple years so it's really good to see him like have a band that everyone loves and because he's so talented and like the songs are amazing like the whole vibe of that yeah well i think lance and liz turned me on to them i don't know what I'd do without Lance and Liz. I missed about, it seems, about 30 years of music somehow. And then, like, they, yeah. But the weird thing is, is just like that record I played for you in there,

is that now, you know, music nerds and record nerds are going back into catalogs of completely off, you know, non-mainstream, off-the-grid people that were on big labels. Yeah. But you would never know their shit, really. Or their B-sides. And then you start to realize how much of a fucking stronghold mainstream music business

had on all of our brains. Yeah. You know, you've got, there's no way you're going to get turned on to that shit unless someone goes, dude. Yeah. Because they just pump the same shit over the radio all the time. Right. Dude. Yeah. Because they just pump the same shit over the radio all the time. Right, but there's thousands of fucking records out there of the same time, even. At any time in history of music of unheard people.

Yeah. I mean, thank God for the internet for that reason alone. Or record store clerks. Right. I was living back in Laguna after high school and late in high school. I used to have shows at my parents house they were they would allow that so it just be like those bands and at your parents house you my parents you would sort of be the the host I'd be the host how many bands yeah oh my well it was the thing

it was like people would start there was no you know there's no real outlet for music and then eventually there's no real outlet for music. And then eventually there's a bunch of music kids. And so everyone would start a band, like, for these shows and play, like, two or three songs. Right. And it was just the same group of, like, 10 people, like, in different bands. So there would be, like, I don't know, 10 to 15 bands per night, you know, just.

Mix it, but the same 10 dudes or pretty much and you just kind of yeah you guys still do that yeah i guess so it's it's more fun that way well i mean more fun just to like but see that i think that's a relatively new thing with your crew of guys it seems i mean there was a lot of studio guys that show up on a lot of different albums but it seems like all of you guys like even on that Meet, what's that record I just got? The Meat Bodies. The Meat Bodies. Like, you can hear Ty all over that thing.

If he's not in there, it sounds like that he's some influence. Doesn't he play a little on that? Yeah, he does. Yeah. Yeah, he plays some drums, I think. Yeah. But it's just, but there's a sound to it. But it's interesting that that whole idea, and I imagine it's not that different, but

I haven't heard it from talking to musicians where you guys were just kids. You had no outlet. So your parents, thank God, were like, you can have your friends over to play music. They're amazing about that. Yeah. And you would have these parties that didn't get out of control? No. Everyone would kind of keep each other in check.

There wasn't even a lot of like drinking or drugging or anything. It was just like very positive. What a respectful bunch of uh of kids you all were tried to be i mean of course there would be problems and the cops would come all the time just from the loudness yeah and i would like try to tell my neighbors like little notes being like we're gonna have a little birthday party you should you should have said we're doing something very important musically next door we're building a generation of psych rockers and punks like stay off our backs man yeah man jesus so oh so okay

so yeah it's 10 of you just interchanging bands and did all the bands sound different yeah kind of um i'm i remember me and ty played in this metal band called Goat Herder. It was like a thrash metal band where me and him would both switch off on bass and drums and try to do double kick drum. And we had four songs, but it would always go crazy. And the singer Tom would spit. He'd get like, what is that? Picardy 151 or something. Yeah, flame it.

Yeah, and have a tiki torch. And we're all wearing like Hawaiian shirts and shorts. And then you'd spit fire inside the house. That was as bad as it got. Yeah. There was always this like this little window by the door that somebody would amazingly never get hurt but inevitably somebody would fall through that little window and it was like on ground floor you know

it's like a yeah plated window so i i yeah i would always just the next day have to go and buy like plates of glass and replace that but that's about like it's out of control so i had one party at my house with two bands when i was a kid because my parents let like it's out of control so i had one party at my house with two bands when i was a kid because my parents let me they were out of town i turned the entire house into like a club and it just packed out uh-huh it was a disaster at the end of the night there was a a very uh obese uh naked woman in the hot tub that we couldn't get to leave that's how that nobody up. That nobody knew? Yeah, of course not. Who'd you come with?

I don't know. Doesn't matter. Yeah, okay. I saw a light. So when did you guys get turned on to the bands that influenced you, really? I mean, like, I know that, like, I didn't even know who the fuck Hawkwind was until Ty told me,

and then you get into that catalog, and it's like, oh my God, there's a hundred records. Yeah. Who started sort of, like like tapping into some of that older shit that defines some of your sounds now you know i was i was always really late to like rock there wasn't any there wasn't really any like rock music at all in my house my parents were like like my mom was a classical musician right and so there'd be like light classical and smooth jazz. Right. My dad would listen to like conservative talk radio in the car.

Oh, no. Rush Limbaugh and his long pauses. Oh, my God. So you grew up with the conservative mindset? Yeah, so I didn't even know what rock music was really. And I remember, I think I was like nine, eight or nine. I was like, none of my siblings weren't really into music too much either. Oh, my God.

So you just had the harp and the piano and your sax and Russian limbaugh. I remember going to the public library. I'm like, I want to check out rock music. What's rock music? Really? Yeah, I went to- You said that to the librarian? No, I just wandered over to the cassettes. Yeah.

A bunch of cassettes. How old were you? I think I was eight or nine. I just picked one out, and it was a guy with long hair and a guitar shredding. I was like, this looks like rock music. I take it home and listen to it. And it's like, I forget what it was. i was like this looks like rock music you take it home listen to it and it's like i forget what it was it was like the scorpions or something it was like some yeah yeah hair metal crazy yeah ridiculous shit and then but then i had this uh did it make

an impact i think that one didn't stick but pretty soon after that we had this uh when we moved to laguna we had this uh scorpions moved to Laguna, we had this. Scorpions weren't horrible, but you know what I mean. No, no, no. It was worse than Scorpions. It was something worse. Queens, right? I don't even know what they do.

I don't know. But I had this cool babysitter type. We weren't babies, but he would like, my parents worked, so he'd like pick us up from school. Right. He was a lifeguard. Yeah. We had a string of lifeguard, like babysitter people for some reason. That's interesting.

Yeah. You might want to talk to your mom about that. Yeah, but then he would pick us up from school and he introduced me to Nirvana. Really? That was my first favorite band. I was like 10 or 11. So I immediately bought everything I could. Right.

That really changed everything for me. So that was probably when Nevermind came out? It was actually right after he died. Oh, really? I forget when he died, but it would have been like 95 or 96. Right, right. And that did it, huh? That did it.

That did it. Thank God for that guy. Yeah. The lifeguard saved your life. He gave you Nirvana. It was amazing. I remember totally, I didn't see anything funny about it at all, but we were listening to it. And it's like, oh, man man I want to start a band that sounds

like Nirvana I think I'm gonna call it Nirvana 2 did you do that I still plan to someday cause I love it I didn't see those are big shoes to fill buddy remember him laughing just the babysitter lifeguard guy

when you said that nirvana too yeah now yeah and now you're like 10 yeah he must have thought it was hilarious because there was probably an earnest idea no it's like there's why why wouldn't i call it nirvana too i love nirvana um so yeah and then i from there i got yeah i got into like uh like metallica like really you went from nirvana and metallica because i never went metallica but a lot of people go metallica yeah those early records are really cool no they're great because they sort of like both of those bands kind of annihilate that that kind of blues base of of most rock and roll like they kind of go their own way sure i got like the nirvana stuff that's all pop chords a lot of them like you know kind of sad almost beatlesy it's beatles worship right like through a

big mouth yeah and and and and metallica like i don't even know what the fuck that is as far as progressions are where'd that come from no it's just shredding but like there was no like there's no one four five kind of chorusing. It's only the world. It's interesting. Yeah. So those were the two. Those were the defining factors. Yeah.

And there was like Green Day and like, you know, like kind of really the Offspring. Oh, yeah, yeah. I've actually been the last week or so been going back and listening to old Offspring. Really? Yeah. I'm like really into it. Blasting down the freeway. Yeah. It's cool the freeway yeah like smash yeah yeah i don't know i just like that and when did you get into uh like some of the psych rock stuff that was that tie that was yeah that was tying that group of

friends really they were into it it was it was really it was really like late high school that i started getting getting into some of the music that i still listen to or you know like garage rock and some punk stuff and stuff it took it took that group of friends to i finally had like music friends right you know and when did you decide to go to cal arts how did that like did you pull out of like all those high school bands and then, where is that place? It's up in Valencia. And so, that was a commute or did you live up there?

Um, I lived up there. That was years after high school actually. I, I bounced around before. I like went up to Portland immediately after high school.

And, and which, which bands were you in up there? Let's go through the, No bands. No bands? No bands. Which is,

was it a chick? No, it was, I mean, it was school. Oh. It was like a college. Oh, you went to college a chick? No, I mean, it was school. Oh. It was like a college. Oh, you went to college in Portland?

Yeah, and I kind of thought... Done with music? Yeah, a little bit. I mean, I thought... I didn't get this direct pressure from my family, but they're all lawyers academic like doctors and lawyers brilliant people so i mean they didn't they weren't like you need to cut out music and get right go to school and get a real job right i i felt i felt that like

on my own right so i kind of i kind of um yeah i kind of started trying to study. How long did that last, bud? Not very long. A year? Yeah, it was a crazy time up there. Did you get depressed? Yeah, yeah. It's actually, yeah, the story of that time is kind of the B-side of my last record, MC3. Really?

It's like a narrative, a mini concept record. The second side of Michael last record, MC3. Really? It's kind of like a mini, it's like a narrative, a mini concept record. The second side of Michael Cronin 3? Yeah, it's the first like through line series of songs I've done. Which was, what was that through line? It was, I mean, I was up there, I was in school. It was like a tough school. I didn't really, it was just like I had no idea what I was doing.

I just like, I need to graduate school i was doing i just like i need to graduate school and get a job i wasn't playing music so you just sort of like okay uh high school's done now i've got to focus and do what i'm expected to or what cultural there's cultural expectations yeah right right yeah and yeah i do want to stress because i know they'll listen it wasn't it wasn't like my folks that were. Right. No, it was just sort of like, this is what people do. And that's what people did. Right.

That's what all my high school friends did. Orange County, man. Yeah. Yeah. And like, I don't know. I don't need to pigeonhole it. That's just what you do when you come from people that are educated. No, sure.

Yeah, you assume that. You get educated. Right. You assume it's time to do this. Right. It was time to do this. So I like, yeah, there's a time where I was just like kind of something was wrong. I wasn't doing something right, you know. That's a little vague, Michael.

I know it was vague. Really? You just didn't feel right. I didn't feel right. I started like, you know, getting depressed and anxious for the first time. Oh yeah. Like anxiety attacks. Yeah. I had, I had a few of those for the first time. I was just like outside of my bubble. I grew up in such a bubble. Right.

And you had friends and everything. Now you're up in Portland where it's dark and weird and the town has a certain vibe to it. Yeah. And you're with the, you know, I imagine fairly rich kids from all over the world. Sure. That seem to have more of their shit together. That kind of thing.

Yeah. all over the world. Sure. That seem to have more of their shit together, that kind of thing. Yeah. And, and like at the same time,

like I developed this like, create this really bad back injury from, from years of like, you know, skateboarding and stuff. I, it turned out I slipped a disc, but I had a, a,

I just felt it in my like leg. Yeah. Sciatica. Yeah. Yeah. I slipped a disc, but I just felt it in my leg. Yeah, sciatica? Yeah. Yeah. I thought it was coming on slowly, and I thought I pulled a hamstring or something. Yeah. It got worse and worse and worse to the point where I couldn't even really walk anymore. And this is your first year of college?

This is, yeah, the second year. And now you're not only uncomfortable, but you can't leave your room? Yeah. And you're limping around i would limp around like like like literally like an old man like that oh my god that speed and i was just like on a bunch of painkillers and i was just like unhappy and like did you have friends i had some yeah i had friends that's good and they were good like interesting people and it was like a classic thing where like my worldview was getting expanded yeah you know first right college or whatever that's good um but like so much was wrong and something was like very wrong and physically i was all fucked up yeah and so yeah that just fed into like depression and anxiety and like what am i even doing here and did you have a breakdown yeah i kind of i had a i had a snap snapping point um called the parents yeah well you know

the first the first time it was it was uh i was i was going to doctors up there and they're like okay figured out like i slipped a disc and it's bad right and then my my mom my parents were looking into like surgery yeah yeah so it's like usually you don't often have to go to surgery for that for that thing sometimes you can work it out on your own yeah but apparently mine was so far blown out that like I needed to get surgery. So I was all fucked up. And then there was like this really long waiting list for some reason. Really?

Yeah. Even with your old lady being a doctor? I couldn't get in. But then. Usually doctors are like, let's go to Bob. I don't know. But then I still don't know if she pulled some strings or something but i got a call and like let's say a saturday being like you need to get here by monday you're gonna have surgery to la yeah yeah we fit you in right i was like oh okay sure and i was already like

so you know i was so blurry and like painkillers yeah so much like chronic pain is it was is it was like a chronic pain which is a crazy thing to deal with yeah horrible yeah it's hard to it's hard to describe um you just try to like your brain keeps trying to live with it but you can't yeah it's just like right so i couldn't concentrate so i was like kind of failing out of all my classes anyway and my social life was kind of falling apart so i just i was like okay i had i had my car so i just loaded up my stuff in my car all of it yeah i didn't have much stuff you know but you were like i'm done with school it wasn't like i'm coming back here well i i wasn't sure at that time but i just i had to leave i couldn't tell anyone i didn't tell anyone at the school or it's only

told like a couple friends i'm just like i'm gone and then so i was gone i had surgery and then i was like laid up in bed for a long time yeah like now really just kind of like what the fuck am i gonna do i'm like laid out in bed i'm like in school but i hate it yeah something's wrong so you had a lot of time to think yeah and then and then like i i mean i recovered i tried to go back to school for a little bit but i'm still like depressed and fucked up so i just i left i went i went back to laguna were you lost or were you happy to be home i was lost but like the silver i mean in retrospect because that was like 10 years ago but in retrospect that was like one of the best things that ever happened to me because i was home i was like aimless it's like something's wrong and then

like my friends were like hey do you do you want to just come over and play music in our basement like join our band i was was like, yeah, sure. They're like, can you play bass? I'm like, I could probably learn bass. I don't know. And then so we started playing music, and I started like writing music for the first time. Who were those friends?

Was that Ty? That was the first band in that period I joined was with this guy, that guy Charles Moody Hart. The guy, Tom White's voice. No, no, no. The other guy from Fuzz. From Fuzz. He's the guitar player no the other guy from Fuzz from Fuzz he's the guitar player

oh okay good yeah yeah and some other like some other old high school friends and we started a band did it have a name it turned into

Moonhearts oh okay who have like Charlie and the Moonhearts yeah yeah I couldn't find those records they're kind of

they're kind of hard to find I'll bring you one if you want. It's fun. It's like, it's pretty, you know, it's garage rock. Uh-huh. Pretty, like, aggressive, like, some surf in there. So that saved you.

I feel like, in retrospect, I was just going with it, but, like, it was really important. And you started writing songs? I started writing songs. I started singing. They're, like, we jammed out something. Mm-hmm. And I'm like, who's going to sing's gonna sing in this band and like nobody wanted to do it right and i'd never like sung before i was like uh i'll take it i'll give it a shot i don't know i'll write

some lyrics yeah i like sang for the first time i remember we recorded like in garage band down in the basement i came back the next day with lyrics and a melody I'd written. Uh-huh. I was like, you guys, everyone out of the room, like go outside. I don't want you to hear this. Yeah. Like me doing my first vocal take ever. Yeah.

And I did it and there, you know, it wasn't good. I've heard it since. It was pretty awful. But they were just like, oh, that's great, man. You're the singer now. I was like, shit. There you go. So I'm not. Welcome to rock and roll yeah singer i mean i was excited to like write the song the songs and the the melodies and the lyrics and stuff but like i've never i was always i'm always like the shy guy

yeah like i'm still i'm getting out of it now yeah like as my in my late 20s or whatever but like in high school like I didn't talk to anybody except for my friends I was so painfully shy so the idea of like singing in a band was insane yeah um but yeah that whole process like really helped me like just in my normal life like get out of my shell a little more too that's great man so yeah it was like a crazy so that was the first band charlie and the moon hearts yeah and then and then like that so that started the rock the rock career in a way yeah i guess so and we were just we're just like having fun there's no there's absolutely no ambition other than just like let's play some shows and if we can record if we can figure out how to record

something that'd be awesome right then we just make like cassette tapes and like that was the thing huh yeah i mean that was that was all we could really do we could do cdrs right but you couldn't you couldn't sort of mass run them off no i i i just found because i just moved a couple days ago into this area i found some of the first like moon hearts demo tapes and they're just you know now i now know that there's like shorter lengths of tapes that right fit the music better right but they're all just like 90 minute tapes with like four songs on it five songs and all that i just like 90 minute tapes with like four songs on it, five songs. And all that, I just hand drew the covers with like stupid hearts and stars and like glitter.

And what was the plan with those? You just give them to fans, but there was no idea of like, how do we make records? No idea. But I think like, okay, so this is sort of what's interesting to me is that, okay, so you're making these glittery cassette tapes. You're with this band, Charlie and the Moonhearts. You're doing shit. You feel like you have something.

You sounded different than other people, I imagine. Yeah, I tried to. Yeah. What was the sound? I mean, it was like definitely based in garage punk. Punk, surfy kind of. Yeah. We were listening to a lot of like the Mummies and like the Gories and the Oblivions.

Right, right. we're listening to a lot of like the mummies and like the gories and the oblivions. Right. Right. So how does it, cause you know, you look at you or Ty and you record on at least three or four, maybe five record labels over the course of five or six years. I mean, where,

how do you get from making glittery 90 minute cassettes with four songs on them to sort of, you know, wondering how or, or trying to make a living, you know, on, on record.

Yeah, it's so hard to, I don't even know. I mean, there's such a slow burn of just no expectations and starting to play bigger shows. And then an Italian guy with a small record label that would just print 300 black and white 7-inches contacted me on MySpace at the time. Yeah. Just like, in broken English, do you want to make a 7-inch? And I was like, yes, of course. That's my dream.

Right. I never... So was MySpace important to you? I mean, did that really? It was crazy. That was the way we mostly book shows. So you put music up on MySpace. Yeah.

And you had a page. Yeah. And then you'd find other bands and they'd find you and they'd be like, you know, do you want to play this show? Do you want to play this party? Really? Yeah. So that sort of replaced the the

weird kind of fanzine you know writing letters that the old punk rockers did that you know you yeah you'd write a letter to a guy in a band or call him sure you have to try to book a gig with some other punk bands so myspace really functioned that way yeah it's funny because myspace is gone all these things gone they're gonna be gone um but it was really important yeah it's like how we got our first couple records made with the italian guy the italian guy and who was the next record um uh well we uh this was yeah this was on myspace too like um this record label tic-tac-toe-lee out of chicago just a small label like one dude working out of his garage now Now, were you finding

that you were building a fan base? Yeah. I mean, slowly but surely. And we started being able to play shows like out of town, play in LA. At Smell? Yeah.

I think that was one of our first shows. Our first show was at my house. Yeah, of course. That was the most popular venue that was this place to be the cronin shows as they would be called um so what made you decide to go to cal arts in the middle of all this i eventually figured out that like maybe i should go to school and graduate from something yeah because i still like still playing all these shows like i'm not going to be a professional musician because like how do you even do that?

Like how do you make a living? You know, I just had no concept. I still thought that the way to do that was to go to school. I didn't know. I didn't even think that. I was just like I'm going to go to school and the only way I could get through school and get like a degree would be to play music there. You know, and it's a cool school. It's like really experimental. Yeah. It's like the basically like the john cage school of music really yeah so you

started getting into that so what'd you learn there um you know i i was is it really the john cage school movies did he start it or no i mean but all the all the professors were like contemporaries sure sure so it's just it was that contemporaries of john cage yeah they like they would like play plays you know they play stuff and they're they're all like yeah a lot of waiting with the junk yeah a lot of silence 433 um but it was really cool because they were just really out there and it wasn't it wasn't like a straight conservatory like i would never be able to i i mean i auditioned the way i auditioned was like with saxophone because it was the only i didn't play a lot of saxophone at that time i was mostly like playing in punk bands but it's like that's the only one i can read on right so i think i played like a bach piece i brought my mom

up to audition with me yeah so she backed you yeah she uh she played piano and i wrote like a piece for saxophone and harp uh-huh did she play harp too she played harp she brought the harp up and they had a piano there yeah yeah and you did two pieces and then we did we did a third one that was kind of like a eastern european like fast kind of klezmer piece with like piano and i'm playing saxophone and it's you and your mom it's me and my mom but there was never a moment they were like we should get this on record i think we recorded one of them but it's just it's just kind of a schmaltzy like piano harp piece that's sweet but i'm still trying to get her on a record somehow i don't know how to i don't know how to tie a harp into my music yet but i'm i'm gonna it'll happen it'll happen you'll figure it out yeah you might like it

sounded like the window to do that would have been when you were at uh cow arts sure it was mostly like three years of critically thinking about and playing music like all the time all kinds yeah so no matter um a lot of people it it seems a lot of musicians, there's still a cliche about like, if you go to music school, you'll lose all your like spontaneity and kind of, you know, they say it kills something in you as a musician. without the illusion of being some sort of concert saxophone player. I mean, you'd already been in the trenches in a way. Yeah. And it doesn't sound like it's a noodle school. Like, you know, I mean, Berkeley, I think different musical schools produce different types of people.

Sure. And it seems like this one was more completely creative and you could find the education you wanted, whereas, you know, you weren't being trained to be a proficient studio musician. Yeah, it was more just expanding your mind about what music is and what it can be. There's still amazing session musicians that come out of there, of course. Yeah, of course.

Just with a broader sense of what they can do on their instrument or what they can do with their instrument or what they can do with music generally. Well, maybe that's what they were setting out to do. You were setting out to be a rock guy. Yeah, I guess so. You know? And I kind of, I like.

And you returned to it. I returned to it. Like I, I graduated and like a few days later went on tour up the West Coast. Did you make a record? There's a record. We have a one-sided 12-inch record. So you did that right out of school because you guys were in it? Yeah.

I mean, that was about it for me because I did that tour. Immediately jumped in the van with Ty as soon as I got back to LA or San Francisco or something. And he was like, dude. He's like, you're back in the band. I played in early incarnations of his band as Ty Siegel. Right. And then I was, I mean, he was up in San Francisco. I was down in LA at school.

Was that Reverse Shark Attack? We did that. Yeah, we did that. Shoot, when was that? 2009. Yeah. We recorded that just at my parents house when i was living in orange county in the famous cronin studio yeah and performance space

it's a garage band with one mic yeah one amp a drum set guitar bass he likes that though yeah i mean he's like he's real organic with that shit you know the last record seemed to be a little more production yeah it, it sounds great. Yeah, yeah. Chris Woodhouse. Yeah, that was fun. The guy does some amazing work. Were you on that record?

Manipulator? Yeah, I did the string arrangements and then played on a song. I played bass on a song. So you are the wizard. You're like, get Cronin in here. We need a French horn. If you need a French horn, call me. And some cellos. Yeah yeah or a saxophone player you know i've played sax on so many you know up

in san francisco bands or down here whatever i played saxophone on so many songs that's always the same thing they're like all right here's your solo do something melodic for like four bars and then just go squeak yeah i'm like okay i know how to do that that's that's on all your friends records i've ever been on so you were in the bay area for a while yeah so i um that tour actually graduated school i had like a duffel bag in my base i jumped in the van with ty with no break went on another west coast tour with him I jumped in the van with Ty with no break, went on another West Coast tour with him, ended up in San Francisco and just stayed.

That's where he was? Yeah, that's where him and most of the friends I grew up playing music with were. And he was already like... They're all in the Bay Area, defining themselves. So, okay, but the point is that you guys were all working and making records on whatever label would have you, and you were playing on and making records on whatever label would have you and you were playing on everyone's records yeah and at that time by the time i moved to san francisco like i i hadn't haven't had a like a proper job since yeah we just started touring like right maniacs and like ties we're all recording you know we weren't making money off the recordings at all but we're

just touring like crazy for the last like you know four four years or whatever and now you're both like i saw you play with him and you put you tour with him sometimes or or always when it's a single band always pretty much yeah yeah up and like since since that time about four years ago when i like rejoined and then it just it strikes me that i guess we should probably get into um the three solo records because the first Michael Cronin record is on Trouble in Mind. Yeah. That's a good label.

They're great. Yeah. I have to give them credit, Bill and Lisa Rowe. Uh-huh. Because I got to know them through touring through Chicago, played with their old band, Coca-Cola, a few times. And they let us stay at their house and stuff right so we were friends and then i was coming through with ty siegel and me and bill were listening to music or into the same kind of stuff we're into these like psychedelic

del shannon yeah that one yeah that yeah that's a good record the one the one that everyone knows i just got that yeah so we were like connecting on that and i was like at that time i was like i've been thinking about like putting out some music under my own name and i kind of want to be something like this you know like kind of psychedelic pop yeah and he was like uh you definitely should and i pretty much like 95 guarantee that if you send it to me, just record it. Like we'll put it out. Like we're starting this new, it's kind of new early record label.

So he's like, just do it. I'll put it out. Like, unless it's fucking terrible. Right. Of course I won't. So that,

that really like lit the fire under my ass to be like, okay, I'm going to collect all my musical worlds together and try to make this record under my own name. And it just struck me because I only knew you and whatever I projected onto you from Ty's world. Sure. And then these records, I'm like, holy shit,

this is full-on production, big-sounding pop music that really is like all of the songs were like just hit you in the head in a way where it's sort of like this is beautifully realized it didn't like it didn't seem like like you know we're just kind of plinking around or fucking just like raw as fuck it sounded like you produced those records well thanks that's really nice i tried i worked hard on them yeah and the last one it's sort of like one of these records or i'm like this should be a huge record i don't know i mean i'm sorry that's a hard it's not even a question but like i i know the last two are on merge and

i like him and mac and you know they've always been doing a lot of great stuff but it's like it's one of those records where i don't really know what the life of records is now, but it seems to me that it's very accessible, it's catchy, but it's also deep and it's got, you know, this amazing orchestration and stuff

that, like, at another time, you're sort of like, this would be like a hit record. Well, thank you. That's awesome. Yeah, I mean,

it's amazing that people still want to hear, like, guitar music, you know, there's a whole new generation of guys. And I think you guys,

and a lot of the people you're talking about are defining sort of this, this age of music that there's definitely, you know, the community of it is always mind blowing to me that you guys all know each other and that you play with each other. And that there's sort of this crew of people moving up with that are getting, you know, I mean,

Ty's getting a lot of attention and now you're getting a lot of attention and and how did you get tied in with all the comedy people through jonah kind of yeah that was i i've gotten really into comedy the last couple years oh yeah i guess yeah oh good you know i started it started out like hanging around the meltdown i've been there a few times that's it's good it's a good place yeah um i was touring so much and i was i needed a break from music just in my head like i would just be surrounded by music all the time so i was like should i listen to audiobook should i do this like what's a podcast right i was really late onto that and then like i started getting into a lot of podcasts right podcast i've listened to for years and yeah a lot of podcasts. I've listened to for years.

A lot of comedy. And I started learning about comedy through these podcasts, learning about people. And I started going out to shows when I moved to LA, or once in a while in San Francisco. I got a Twitter. Communions are all about Twitter. You guys don't...

I don't know what it is with musicians. I get boxes of fucking records, and I'm'm like this is a great record i'm gonna tweet this guy's like no or if there is a tweet it's from three years ago like you just can't yeah you don't see you guys don't like there's some part of you guys where it's sort of like i'd rather not promote at all if that's possible there's a way that i could yeah i think it's fun i don't i don't i'm bad at self-promotion but i do like reading comedians tweets think it's fun. I don't, I don't, I'm bad at self-promotion, but I do like reading comedians' tweets. Well, it's good just to have a presence on there. So when one of us likes your shit.

It's there. Yeah, we can at least send you somewhere. And my space is over, bud. Yeah. And that's how like, I don't know, like Jonah, I think contacted me. Did you do his podcast? I have, I did a live one up in Portland, but it didn't get recorded. They fucked up. What about Jonah Radio? You haven't been on Jonah radio that was that was that one I know but he didn't do an

interview kind of hangout thing no I mean I actually I'm I live a couple houses down from him now in Atwater or are you if he oh that's right he bought a house down here yeah he's down the street everyone's down the street now well he would probably like every band you mentioned that i'm like what he'd be like oh i love that record i have that one yeah he's like he's like that guy no he's yeah he's yeah he knows all the records well what's i don't know i just got i started you know there's a couple comedians who liked my music and then i like their stuff too it's like him like so the community learned yeah Bronner's great yeah so they both Jonah and Kurt both directed there's music videos right there's the one that's a rip on they call me out or

call me out that one and then there I didn't watch the other one that's Bronner Jonah a joint as well um well not a joint but they were both in it oh that was the Kurt directed that okay christian shaw stalled starred in oh you're with all the groovy kids big groovy rock uh comedy crossover yeah i like it a lot i've been and i i got to play you know i've gotten to play a few comedy shows at like nerd melt or um i saw i played a Kurt and Kristen show. Oh yeah, down at the Virgil? Yeah, I saw you do stand up there once when I just went.

How was that? It was great. I don't remember. I'm a big fan. Thank you. I'm trying not to like geek out, but. Well, like whenever I do those rooms where it's full of like alt kids,

there's part of me that's sort of like, I'm going to teach him a lesson. I know, you're kind of yelling at everybody. I loved it. I kind of knew what to expect. It's was like yep this is exactly exactly what i wanted well let's play a song man you want to sure sometimes i get musicians in here like like richard thompson or nicolo people like that and i'm embarrassed about my setup but like this is like how you recorded half your life like this this is high tech for me is it great

The circle moves in front of me And the fuel burns away And I know There's peace inside the open flame. Maybe then we can stay alone. Sitting alone in a silent room. What do I say? I've been loved, I've been lost I've been locked inside my mind And I can feel it's real

And it's been to me all this time I've been lucky enough to find love of different kind Give me faith Feel the season slip away And the rain slows the road There's a chance Today you'll find your open door And I'm here, here too Who'd have known

Feeling alone in a crowded room Can I say I've been loved, I've been lost I've been locked inside my mind And I can feel when it's real And it's been to me all this time I've been lucky enough To find love of a different kind I've been loved, I've been lost, I've been locked inside my mind I can feel when it's real and it's been to me all this time

I've been lucky enough to find love of a different kind It's been to me all this time Diving up, you know I love a different kind Thank you. Yeah. Great. Thanks, man. Little Beals court at the end. Little Beals court at the end. You got it, Thursday. Good talking to you, man.

Thanks a lot. Nice. I like when people play music in front of me. You can get Michael's music and stuff from Titus Andronicus and a lot of other shit. They got good stuff at Merge Records. Oh, my God. I'm so fucked up on jet lag. All right.

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